Sixth Generation Image War

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Sixth Generation Image War

Well, Russia has joined the "sixth generation image" war. The latest round of the rendering race has spurred the media to some downright silly and rather fantastical speculation about "what kind of car is this and what is it capable of?"

What can a picture be capable of? Naturally, to delight those interested in various images. Seriously discussing the performance characteristics of a combat aircraft is only possible after it takes to the skies and undergoes a series of tests. And even then, there's no guarantee that the intended performance characteristics will be met.



And we don't have to look far for an example: take the F-22, and let them bounce a meter off the concrete in their parking lots. Here's an airplane that was said to be one thing, but turned out to be something completely different.

We've already broached the topic of a sixth-generation aircraft more than once. And somehow it's all pointless, because it's incredibly difficult to implement something you can dream up on the couch, let alone on a decent computer. And we've ended up destroying what we dreamed up ourselves.

Near-hypersonic speed? Cruising at Mach 4 without afterburners? Yes, and a pilot who would be crushed to a pulp with minimal maneuvering at such speeds, or, alternatively, knocked out cold by a stroke.

Artificial intelligence that can fly at hypersonic speeds? Yes, but it doesn't exist yet. And what exists can't handle it. dronesYes, unmanned vehicles can fly alongside aircraft, acting as flying batteries, but the effectiveness of all these "faithful wingmen" has been best demonstrated by our S-70.

Spaceship-like aircraft capable of combat even in near space? Yes, that makes sense: once a bomber reaches an altitude of about 70 km, it becomes invulnerable (for now) to anti-aircraft fire. missiles, but this will come at the cost of additional engines (most likely rocket engines), a second set of oxidizer tanks (kerosene is perfectly acceptable as a fuel), a reinforced hull for near-space flight, life support systems, and so on. And yes, thermal insulation for re-entry into the upper atmosphere. In reality, these are monsters that weigh much more than even existing strategic bombers.

Stealth was also discussed. Naturally, it had to be better than that of fifth-generation aircraft. What would be needed for this? New materials, new signal reflection principles... In other words, things that haven't yet been observed.


And yes, these planes should be armed in theory. weapons, as one high-ranking politician put it, "based on new physical principles." What these new physical principles are, given that physics in our space remains the same—let's leave it to the speaker's conscience. It's worth simply saying that nothing more or less fitting this description has been invented. Yes, missiles have begun to fly further. And that's really all that all the world's weapons makers can boast about. Lasers, blasters, beam guns, and railguns remain in the distant future. A hundred years from now.

And so it turns out to be an interesting situation, like the saying about a known body part—it's there, but the words aren't. The sixth generation exists in drawings and designs, but it makes no sense whatsoever. At least not yet.

Now some will say - while some are drawing, others are already flying.


It's not that simple, ladies and gentlemen, it's not that simple. We'll talk about what's flying at the end. It's already flying, there's no getting away from it. Let it fly. We're more interested in what might fly in the future.

Let's start, naturally, with the Americans. Well, they're supposedly the most advanced, and their airplanes... the fire and fear of hot air balloons and drones.

Let's take their F-47s



More precisely, his murky drawings, which they call renders. All that could be gleaned from them was that the cult of the "stealth" icon continues. Which means we shouldn't expect hypersonic speeds and space-age flights from the F-47. That's not the physics of this project. And I'm sure that when they build a model for wind tunnel testing, the first tests will reveal this. The F-47 is a continuation of the F-22-F-35 line, and nothing more. The Americans have simply mastered the art of puffing out their cheeks. That's for sure.

By the way, further proof of this is the unsuccessful attempt to declare the B-21 a sixth-generation aircraft.

That was true, but the global expert community unanimously said, "Ugh," because the B-21 is really the next step in the B-2 line, a lesser effort to correct the mistakes, so to speak. And there's absolutely nothing in the Ryder that would qualify it as sixth-generation.

But at least the B-21 flies in metal. That's undeniable. The F-47, however, is a huge question mark. It's so... invisible that no one has even seen it yet. The Americans themselves are confused about the F-47, because either they're still in the process of customizing the first flight prototype, as Air Force Chief of Staff David Alvin recently stated, with the first flight scheduled for 2028, or flight prototypes have already been flying. He didn't specify where, however.

But many appreciated it, because what Alvin revealed left the jaws of most people knowledgeable about the subject on the floor. Here, we need to differentiate between two projects. The first, Lockheed Martin's NGAD, is one thing, while Boeing's F-47 is quite another. And, as far as anyone interested was aware, the first clear reports about the F-47 program appeared in March of this year.

Lockheed Martin had just announced test flights as part of the NGAD program, but... that was an F-16-based demonstrator, and they were testing individual components of the project. Yes, there were rumors that something similar had apparently flown at Lockheed's secret sites in 2019 and 2022, but nothing came of it. No one really saw what could have flown there, or whether it had flown at all.


You know, it's even interesting how, in such a curious country as the United States, during the five years of work and "flights" of the NGAD program prototypes, no one saw anything or captured anything on a mobile phone camera. Considering the Americans' love of advertising, and how they orchestrate "information leaks" for its sake, everything here is somehow too secretive. We don't even mention publicity, as one of the symbols of democracy.

This is precisely why the majority of the world's expert community has greeted the announcement that the F-47 is "just about to fly" with not just coolness, but downright pessimism.

The thing is, in the US, it's no secret to anyone in the know that General Alvin is a lobbyist for Boeing's interests, and they say it was old David who did everything he could to take the development contract away from Lockheed and into the hands of his friends.

However, lobbying in America is par for the course and is the foundation of politics. So Alvin's efforts here are clear and understandable. And it must be said that snagging such a contract for a company as troubled as Boeing deserves respect, and the general clearly deserved every dollar of his lobbying commission.

But the idea that Boeing, with its many problems, was able to overtake Lockheed, which had been tinkering with its project for five years, in just seven months—even in America, few believe it. Especially since the Americans are constantly being asked for confirmation. No one there has taken anyone's word for it for a long time.

Moreover, everyone is drawing parallels with how Northrop Grumman handles its B-21. Everything is as it should be—pictures, "leaked secret photos," a presentation, airfield demonstrations, and, finally, an actual flight. As the late Zadornov said, everything fits together. People believe in the B-21 because, as they say, everything is in the public domain.


By the way, they do something similar in China, but we'll talk about China separately at the end.

In the case of the F-47, there's complete silence and zero bits of information. No photos, no video, no data, no witnesses. Just a couple of vague renderings, 70% of which are smoke with something sticking out of it. In this day and age, that's incredibly insufficient to believe that something is actually flying out of that smoke. And the fact that the F-47 project was hailed from the podium by the greatest peacemaker on the planet only adds to the belief that it's simply part of a grand "Make America Great Again" show.

With pictures - that's doubtful.

But what do we have there in Europe?


And in Europe there were two projects, if you remember: GCAP or Tempest from Britain, Italy and Japan and FCAS from Germany, France, Spain and Belgium.


GCAP extension


FCAS

Even if the first project is moving forward, it's hard to detect without a microscope. Frankly, I don't think anything will come of this project. Yes, all three participants need to replace their old Tornados and Typhoons, and the Japanese need F-2s. But all three participants have F-35s…

In general, the F-35, despite all its shortcomings, which we have analyzed in detail down to the last screw, is good in the sense that it has completely destroyed the European aircraft industry.

It's hard to say how long the British will tinker with the "six" project. It's clear that Japan and Italy aren't helping, but rather... fellow travelers with money, and the entire burden of the work will fall on the British shoulders. How long they'll actually last is a question mark.

The second unfortunate partnership is in even more trouble. The alliance of France, Germany, Spain, and Belgium... is falling apart! Belgium has already withdrawn from the treaty, the Germans and Spanish are frantically searching for a way out of the current situation, and the French... well, the French have ruined everything. A gigantic scandal between Dassault Aviation, Indra Sistemas, and Airbus will put an end to the prospects of the FCAS project, Europe's main hope for reviving combat aircraft production. aviation as such.

Seven years of work by Airbus, Dassault Aviation, and Indra Sistemas had been wasted. FCAS was pitched not as a single aircraft, but as a system comprising a sixth-generation fighter (NGF), a suite of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) for various missions, "loyal wingmen," and support aircraft. All of this was to be integrated into a "combat digital cloud," a network enabling real-time data exchange between various combat platforms.

The project was certainly impressive. On paper, it all looked simply fantastic. But the implementation… Five of the seven years were spent just coordinating the various bureaucratic details of a United Europe. And only in 2022 did any meaningful progress begin.

It must be said that nothing has changed in three years; the project has essentially remained the same. However, the French have decided that 80% of the new aircraft should be manufactured in France. Eric Trappier, head of Dassault Aviation, stated that:
“It’s easier for us to build the aircraft ourselves than to cooperate with the Germans, since we at FCAS own 90% of all the know-how.”

Overall, the French are looking to open their own bar with blackjack and other amenities. The main thing, of course, is that it doesn't turn out like "Rafale" again; anything better is good enough.

And the remaining former participants will remain with their old aircraft and... new F-35s.

The American F-35 program has arguably achieved its primary goal. With it, the Americans have virtually destroyed the European combat aircraft industry, rendering Europe completely incapable of developing and producing its own fighters. Nearly all European countries have purchased or will purchase the Penguin, and this process is virtually irreversible: they have no other options but the F-35.

After all, shouldn't we be buying planes from the Russians and Chinese?


And given the energy crisis Europe is literally being pushed into by Europoliticians like Ursula the Eurogynecologist, there's no point in even thinking about building any new aircraft. The money needs to be spent on helping Macron's lover in Kyiv, and Washington will give us the F-35s anyway. On credit.

Will France be able to pull off anything on its own? Doubtful. More accurately, it can develop it, but it's unlikely to build and complete it. Plus, there's the energy crisis, coupled with the financial one—what billions of euros are we talking about?

Is it better here?


In our country, we'll talk about our own, eastern half of the world. Here, of course, everyone's thinking about China and its two aircraft. The world is talking about "supposedly sixth-generation" these days. Fine, so be it; China is very good at keeping its secrets, and no one has leaked its performance characteristics for everyone to see.


But the J-36 and J-50, unlike all the other projects, are flying. Yes, the global expert community didn't classify these aircraft as sixth-generation, and it's naturally unpleasant to receive such a slap in the face from the Chinese. But China itself is somehow in no hurry to convince the world that these aircraft are sixth-generation.

Yes, the J-36 and J-50 are flying. Whether they're prototypes or flying models doesn't matter. What matters is that they're flying. How far into the future Chinese aircraft manufacturers have come is an unanswered question, but if China wants to, they'll answer it.


Here in Russia... It's somehow awkward to even talk about the sixth generation, considering we haven't really figured out the fifth generation yet. Yes, the Su-57 has more air victories to its credit than the F-22 and F-35 combined, even though comparing the number of aircraft produced is somehow even indecent...

But then again, work on the Su-57 is progressing, the plane flies, and what's more, it fights, and fights effectively. And it would be strange to wish for anything more.

So, with the fifth generation, we can tick off what we've accomplished and mastered. Let's move on. And then we have the sixth generation...

And here the question immediately arises: why?

The Americans understand—they simply need to be ahead of the curve. The Europeans understand—they need to escape US enslavement. China doesn't, but at least their adversaries are those who want to be ahead of the curve.

So the bacchanalia unfolding in the Russian information space is sometimes delightful, although at its core, it's mostly the fruit of the overactive imaginations of authors and artists. In fact, not one of these sixth-generation poets could even begin to articulate what the hell this plane is all about.

I won't go far; I'll just take one of our authors, who doesn't really understand aircraft, but still draws certain conclusions in his articles. We have many such authors in our country, unfortunately, but nothing can be done. I came across an article in which the author seriously discussed the future of our MiG-41, an aircraft that, as they say, "comes as close as possible to sixth-generation requirements."


The MiG-41 can presumably solve the following tasks:
- destruction of high-altitude supersonic and hypersonic, manned and unmanned reconnaissance and strike systems;
- interception of hypersonic missiles from combat alert mode in the air;
- destruction at long and ultra-long range of particularly important air targets, such as airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft, refueling aircraft, reconnaissance aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft, and strategic bombers;
- use of anti-satellite weapons and delivery of payloads to low Earth orbit (LEO);
- use as a first stage for launching existing and future hypersonic missiles.

It feels like they copied the Americans. A lot of clever buzzwords, but nothing really backed up by them. I doubt whoever wrote this has the slightest idea what a "manned hypersonic reconnaissance and strike system" is, but since writing nonsense isn't illegal in our country, they write it. And they're slapping the MiG-41 on top of this, for which, I should point out, the Ministry of Defense and the Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG haven't officially released any specifications.

Next we have "Intercepting hypersonic missiles from combat alert mode in the air"It's very difficult to translate this into Russian, but apparently the author had this in mind: a MiG-41 is patrolling somewhere on combat alert. Upon receiving information about the presence of a hypersonic missile, the aircraft will magically intercept and destroy it. Why "magically"? Well, there are currently two ground-based systems in the world—their Patriot PAC-3 and our S-500—that could theoretically accomplish this. Theoretically, because no one has tried it in combat mode yet. But would it be possible to cram the computing power of a ground-based system into an aircraft? Which, at a minimum, can fit in one hefty machine?

Next. "Destruction of particularly important air targets at long and ultra-long ranges"Okay, fine, I can agree with this point, because if you strip away the pomposity, it turns out that the aircraft can be equipped with long-range missiles. That's what the Su-35S does today.

"Use of anti-satellite weapons and delivery of payloads to low Earth orbit". Everything, as they say, is curtains, and here's why: let's start with the definition of LEO (low Earth orbit) as such.

Low Earth Orbit (LEO) is a space orbit around Earth located relatively close to the planet's surface. It ranges from 160 km to 2000 km above sea level.


That is, this so-called aircraft must rise to an altitude from which it can operate some kind of "anti-satellite weapon" of unknown origin (and the author hasn't said a word about what this weapon is) and launch satellites. In other words, it must replace the first and second stages of a space launch vehicle.

And how, excuse me, did the author plan to do this? Here's the icing on the cake:

Engine

For the basic version, the option of restoring production of the existing D-30F6 turbojet engines, which are part of the MiG-31, but in a modernized version, can be considered.

In particular, a certain conventional D-30F6M turbojet engine can be modified to include a modern plasma ignition system, a full authority digital control system (FADEC), new single-crystal turbine blades capable of withstanding high temperatures, and the like.

What do you think? I liked it too. And by the way, I deliberately didn't provide links; there are hundreds of such, with your permission, "articles" in the Russian-language segment. They're spewing out terabytes of nonsense, and they're spewing it out precisely because there's so much room for experimentation due to the lack of coherent information. What results is a complete free rein for the imaginations of people who often don't even understand what an airplane is.

Meanwhile, some drawings have been leaked into our information space. These are clearly not a MiG-41; they were drawn somewhat differently. Or rather, completely differently.


So this has been called "the first image of a Russian sixth-generation fighter." What does that even mean? Mainly that someone, somewhere, drew this picture. And no further conclusions can be drawn for now, because it's just a picture. Hundreds, if not thousands, of such pictures are made during the aircraft development process. Perhaps I should explain?

I'm lucky, of course. There's an aircraft factory in town, and there are people there who can explain everything to a layman. And it was thanks to these good engineers that I realized all these drawings and renderings weren't worth much.

Where does aircraft development even begin? That's right, with the technical specifications. Because "Without a clear technical specification, the result will be..." you know, right?

And here two waves collide: the customer (the Ministry of Defense, in our case) says, "We need this!" And they list their desires: speeds of 4-6 Mach, pilot survival at such speeds, so the pilot can be reused, stealth, spacewalks, a laser system for shooting at satellites, and so on. That's how our would-be science fiction writers write.

The Contractor, in turn, writes a so-called Technical Proposal. That is, they state what they can create within the framework of the stated desires. They propose and justify the aircraft's aerodynamic design, the type of power plant, and other parameters. They then say that yes, it can fly into space, but it needs an oxidizer tank and another engine; stealth at Mach 6 is unlikely; radar-absorbing materials won't withstand it; a laser is possible, but it will require additional power generation. Otherwise, everything is feasible, we need to consider it. This is called a "preliminary design."


And then comes the preliminary design process. Sometimes it's done directly on computers, sometimes on paper, and then transferred to digital. Why is that? For now, paper is simply unavoidable; the working drawing, which the assembler carries with him when he climbs inside the aircraft being assembled, would be more convenient on paper. Tablets are also convenient, but they have a downside: a high mortality rate.


And different groups are working in the same direction. Some are creating and calculating design concepts, while others are working almost in parallel on aerodynamics, because they can easily change something in the design to suit the latter.

The preliminary design process involves developing general views and cross-sectional layouts, designing key components and assemblies, and developing schematic diagrams, equipment systems, controls, and the power plant. Weight, balance, and strength calculations are also performed separately.

All this gives a rough idea of ​​what the final product might look like. Everything is reviewed, redesigned, and recalculated dozens of times. The end result could be the Su-35, or it could be the Il-112V.


Once everything has been accepted, calculated, and approved, detailed design begins—the final stage of technical documentation development. Assembly and detailed drawings are developed, and strength and weight calculations for the structure are refined.

And then, at this point, drawings of a "new plane" suddenly appeared. Of course, one could rush off and start fantasizing about what such "planes" could do. But it would be better to consider where they came from and what their purpose was.

Of course, the "airplane" shape is very similar to the infamous S-70 Okhotnik, with a second engine and manned by a pilot. The "flying wing" concept alone makes it clear that the speed and super-maneuverability that until recently were the trump cards of Russian aircraft designers are out of the question here. Stealth is certainly an option, but it's unlikely to fly into space. We haven't announced any new engines capable of such flights. Of course, given free rein, our visionaries would start producing not only the D30F, but also the R15V-300. It's very easy to do on the couch.

This is most likely one of the rejected concepts. And why they decided to "show it to the world" is clear. It's also clear that we're working on it, and I'd like to think it's moving in the right direction.

The Ministry of Defense, represented by the Aerospace Forces, didn't (quite rightly) voice any requirements for the new aircraft. RAC MiG and JSC Sukhoi Company also didn't omit anything of the sort from their reports, and that's truly encouraging. We shouldn't take a cue from the Americans, who are openly entertaining the world with drawings of their "miracle weapons," which later turn out to be neither miracles nor much of a weapon. Like the Zumwalt superguns with their truly miraculous shells costing half a million dollars apiece.

So what do we have?



USA – there is no sixth generation aircraft.
Europe – there are no sixth-generation aircraft, and there is confidence that there never will be.
China – there are planes, they fly, but to what extent they are “sixth” is very difficult to say.
Russia – there is no sixth generation aircraft.

Overall, work is progressing in our part of the world. Yes, we seem to be lagging behind the Chinese for now, but we shouldn't look at it that way. Just because something fails on our neighbors doesn't mean everything is lost; we need to catch up and surpass them quickly. China has one problem they can't solve on their own: engines. And the best proof of this is Pakistan's requests for Russian engines for its JF-17s. Chinese WS engines can't provide that kind of service life and power.

Platforms for exploring capabilities? Yes, why not? We have such a platform, the Su-57. These capabilities can be studied, and they are being studied, in combat. To study aviation operations in today's (and, it must be said, very different) environment, it's not necessary to build a hunting-like pancake. Conclusions on stealth have already been generally drawn based on the use of our aircraft in the Air Defense Forces.

Do we need American-style advertising? Probably not. They can wave pictures all they want, but pictures don't kill. Should we follow suit? I don't think so, for exactly the same reason. Pictures don't kill, and pictures don't win wars.

During the Soviet era, aircraft (and other things) were built in the strictest secrecy, and it paid off. The entire world was in a frenzy when "those Russians" rolled out yet another—and dare I say it—masterpiece. And these masterpieces served for decades, dominating the charts of the longest-lived aircraft in the world of aviation, leaving virtually no room for American, British, and French creations.

Of course, you can post pictures and write outright nonscientific nonsense, as a huge number of people in our country do. On the one hand, it seems useful; no enemy will be able to understand the swirls of gray matter that our science fiction writers churn out. On the other hand, it's somehow not very pleasant when our country's information space spews out terabytes of nonsense.

It’s a shame for the state, you know.
115 comments
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  1. +9
    13 October 2025 04: 32
    What can a picture do? Naturally, to delight those interested in various images.
    1. +11
      13 October 2025 04: 48
      Quote from Uncle Lee
      Naturally, to please those who are interested in various images.

      Model aircraft manufacturers, and therefore those who will be assembling them, are discussing on the forum which decals to use and what colors to paint. It's incredibly exciting.
  2. +2
    13 October 2025 04: 45
    IMHO, the money grab continues. They haven't figured out the 5th generation yet, let's go with the 6th! Or better yet, the 7th!
  3. +5
    13 October 2025 04: 57
    We have already discussed the topic of what a sixth generation of aircraft is more than once.

    The sixth generation definitely means no human pilot. Will AI be able to control the plane? Probably. Will humans be able to control AI? That's questionable. One option remains: remote control. BUT! Remote control requires nearby transmitter-receiver equipment, preferably very close to improve interference immunity. The choice is limited: either a second aircraft or a satellite. In the case of a satellite, there must be many, many. The United States is the only country building a multi-thousand-strong satellite communications system and succeeding, so its chances of creating a sixth-generation aircraft are better than anyone else's.
    1. +7
      13 October 2025 08: 11
      One definition of intelligence is the ability to solve non-standard situations using non-standard methods. Which is usually quite relevant in a matter like war. This AI hasn't demonstrated anything similar yet. So, the question arises: is it intelligent at all?
      1. +3
        13 October 2025 08: 36
        Quote: paul3390
        Hence the question: is it intelligence at all?

        What exists now certainly doesn't. But that implies a fully-fledged AI, whose arrival is expected. I wouldn't trust it to fly a plane.
      2. 0
        13 October 2025 12: 32
        Quote: paul3390
        One definition of intelligence is the ability to solve non-standard situations using non-standard methods. Which is usually quite relevant in a matter like war. This AI hasn't demonstrated anything similar yet. So, the question arises: is it intelligent at all?


        Not certainly in that way.
        Everything we do in everyday life has already been done by someone.
        And many non-standard things - it turns out that they already existed, and were simply forgotten, not noticed, not taken into account.
        AI is an expert system that chooses from possible options.
        Of course, she won’t come up with something completely new and revolutionary, but she can make a choice from what was there and we don’t know, or develop what exists.
        For example, expert systems are now proving various unsolvable problems, finding "forgotten" solutions—those we've forgotten.
        People have stereotypes - the system does not.
        This will be a non-standard solution.
      3. +2
        13 October 2025 22: 17
        Quote: paul3390
        One of the definitions of intelligence is the ability to solve non-standard situations using non-standard methods.


        No. The main characteristic of intelligence is goal-setting with internal, volitional motivation. That is, the intellect itself sets the task. This is followed by a rather complex process of choosing the method for achieving the goal (this can indeed involve a creative approach, or it can simply be the banal implementation of memorized algorithms; intelligence, if it is intelligent, is capable of choosing the right path itself), and reflection (self-control) of the results obtained. For a combat machine, goal-setting and reflection are absolutely unthinkable, to say the least. No one will ever allow a robot to choose whom and where to kill or control itself. And it doesn't matter what generation they put on board—5, 6, 100, or 3456. This is an ethical issue. And a question of responsibility for mistakes.

        Only elements of intelligent activity are possible for a combat vehicle: independently selecting a method to destroy a target upon human command and acting accordingly until the PROGRAMMED "Success" event occurs. Therefore, even for an air fighter, where the identification task is extremely simplified, fully unmanned vehicles are unthinkable.

        And only a few people are capable of a creative approach. Damn, if only they could teach us to follow an algorithm! :) 9 out of 10 think the "Operating Instructions" were written for idiots, while he's smart.
    2. +2
      13 October 2025 17: 46
      Quote: Puncher
      The sixth generation is definitely the absence of a person in the cockpit.

      Rather, it will be so.
      Hardware hasn't evolved in the world for 50-70 years. Engines are still based on the same principles as half a century ago. Weapons (bullets, shells, missiles) are the same.
      All hardware is just being modernized.

      But "Soft" is developing by leaps and bounds.
      So there won't be a 6th generation hypersonic-space-vertical-takeoff...
      And the "robot" will sit in the cockpit and learn to do what the pilot does now. And then it will surpass him.
    3. +3
      13 October 2025 20: 20
      So-called AI can't even drive a car, much less a plane. AI is simulated intelligence. Developers of this so-called AI still need to recoup investors' money somehow. Simulating a driverless car is already dead, and it's completely unfeasible for a fighter jet. But startups can still raise money.
    4. 0
      19 October 2025 23: 56
      Will AI be able to fly a plane?
      It's not planes, but drones that it's been controlling for a long time. All sorts of large, heavy American drones are essentially controlled by AI.

      Remote control requires the presence of transmitting and receiving equipment nearby, preferably very close, in order to improve noise immunity.
      Some have a working constellation of communications satellites, which is slowly being expanded. Interference immunity is addressed through hardware and software. If you remember CD/DVD discs, this is exactly what was used in them.
      1. +1
        20 October 2025 06: 24
        Quote from barbos
        All large, heavy American drones are, in fact, controlled by AI.

        No. Via satellite dish.
        1. 0
          25 October 2025 20: 10
          The device is directed via a satellite and data is received from it. The device is controlled in the air using the brains on board.
  4. +3
    13 October 2025 06: 11
    There was a time when aviation (both bombers and fighters) was threatened with being completely replaced by ICBMs, tactical missile systems, and surface-to-air missiles, but ultimately, pilots only had to make room. Now, the boom in AI-powered drones has created a crisis in many traditional weapons systems, including aircraft. Therefore, before drawing up sketches and crafting life-size plastic concept models, it's important to understand what niche manned aviation itself can secure.
    1. +2
      16 October 2025 19: 48
      In secondary areas or in particularly risky operations, drones will definitely significantly displace manned aircraft.
  5. +10
    13 October 2025 06: 13
    Quote: Puncher
    Will AI be able to fly a plane?
    It certainly can. At least on military transport aircraft, where the algorithm is quite simple - takeoff, flight along a given route, followed by landing at a given airfieldIncidentally, the Chinese have already unveiled a concept for an AI-controlled military transport aircraft, and the next step is the question of its production. I think the same can be said for long-range aircraft—missile carriers, reconnaissance aircraft, tankers, and electronic warfare aircraft. But with fighters, where the skies can change by the second, such an AI trick might not work. Although...
    1. +5
      13 October 2025 06: 26
      Quote: Luminman
      But with fighters

      An AI's decision in an air battle may conflict with the mission at hand. Why take that risk? You won't be able to hold it accountable later.
    2. +3
      13 October 2025 19: 45
      Excuse me, but are you in aviation? Have you ever flown a transport plane around a thunderstorm, or landed on a runway with a friction coefficient of 0,3 and a crosswind of 15 m/s?
    3. +4
      13 October 2025 22: 23
      Quote: Luminman
      Surely it can. At least for military transport aircraft, which have a fairly simple algorithm: takeoff, fly a predetermined route, and then land at a designated airfield.


      And why does intelligence matter here? :) :) :) You see, the catch is that the fact that military transport aircraft are currently piloted by intelligent beings (people) doesn't mean they use that intelligence to solve problems. No offense to the pilots. For the task you've described, automated takeoff and landing systems and an autopilot are sufficient. Plus, an onboard avionics suite.
      In the USSR, automatic landing of a heavy aircraft was tested on the Buran spacecraft, without any neural networks.
      1. 0
        7 February 2026 10: 47
        Quote: abc_alex
        Without any neural networks.


        This requires qualified specialists.
        Hardly achievable today.
        Machine learning, on the other hand, is simpler in this regard (although it would be foolish to do anything done without machine learning).
  6. BAI
    +2
    13 October 2025 06: 21
    1.
    based on new physical principles." What these new physical principles are, given that physics in our space has remained the same – we'll leave it to the conscience of the speaker,

    And the author's competence.
    Note to the author: NFP weapons are weapons built on physical principles not previously used for weapon construction: lasers, infrasound, EMP, neutron beams, etc. These have long been known, but they have found application in military applications.
    There is no talk of gravity guns and muon bombs.
    2.
    China doesn't understand it, but at least their opponents are those who want to be ahead of the rest of the world.

    And for us, those who are ahead, are our best friends and allies for centuries?
  7. +3
    13 October 2025 06: 36
    Eva, what do you mean, sixth-generation aircraft?
    Why do we need progress at all?
  8. +1
    13 October 2025 07: 50
    The combination of the SU 57 and S70 and a full testing of this combination in combat conditions could possibly suggest directions for further development.
    I haven't yet come across any materials about the combat use of this pair.
    Very interesting to know.
    1. BAI
      -1
      13 October 2025 08: 21
      I haven't yet come across any materials about the combat use of this pair.

      And there won't be any. The S-70 has safely died. Another embezzlement.
      1. -1
        14 October 2025 06: 13
        Quote: BAI
        The S-70 died safely.

        Of course not. It's alive, developing, improving, being upgraded, and modernized. A global satellite communications system was missing for its proper operation. It's being deployed now. Moreover (as it unexpectedly turned out), it does have supersonic speed, albeit not high, but supersonic – 1500 km/h. So, the afterburner on its AL-41F-1S isn't in vain. With the new AL-51F1, it will deliver at least Mach 1,5, which is sufficient for the missions it faces. With a range greater than our heavy MFIs, it's an ideal reconnaissance aircraft, strike aircraft, and, if necessary, a fighter... say, AWACS aircraft, ASW aircraft, ELINT aircraft, refueling tankers, transport aircraft, and even enemy fighters, if necessary. Its advanced radar suite allows it to detect targets (including low-observable ones) from within its own radar stealth range and engage them with its BD and SD missiles. It won't need to huddle close to the ground to hide from ground-based radars; on the contrary, its high altitudes offer it an advantage in detection range and increase the combat range of its missiles. The main bottleneck has been, and still is, providing reliable encrypted communications channels, which requires a constellation of domestic global communications satellites. It's currently being deployed and is promised to be completed within two years. Some of these satellites are already in orbit, providing such communications for our attack UAVs, cruise missiles, and unmanned aerial vehicles. So, everything is developing quite comprehensively and rationally, and it's a shame we didn't have all this at the beginning of the Soviet Military District. We're behind, but we're catching up.
        Quote: BAI
        Another cut.

        The sawing ended after Shoigu and his deputies left. Now the lumber is being stacked.
        1. -2
          14 October 2025 20: 02
          Quote: bayard
          Its advanced radar complex


          Your fantasies again.
          You don't even understand what you're writing about.
          A developed radar complex is, first and foremost, the provision of information received from a radar...
          Providing to someone.
          To the pilot - if manned.
          To the Control Center - if unmanned.
          To transmit target control information from a real radar, a constantly operating, uninterrupted channel with a ping level of no more than 10 ms is required.
          and "thick" about 10 Mbit.
          This is only for transmitting information to the radar.
          And also for management.
          Accordingly, you need to have a channel of at least 50-100 Mbit.

          For example, Google how many resources are needed to remotely control a driverless car in a quarry, where there's no street traffic.
          And no AI can help here - the system must have 100% capability for purely remote control.


          We don't have anything like that.

          You once again.
          You're not even fantasizing, you're just lying.
          Liar...
          1. 0
            14 October 2025 20: 48
            Quote: SovAr238A
            You once again.
            You're not even fantasizing, you're just lying.

            Maybe that's enough hysterics, young man?
            Quote: SovAr238A
            We don't have anything like that.

            Yes. Currently, there are just over twenty such satellites in orbit, but the satellites needed to deploy the entire constellation for global coverage have already been produced and will begin deployment in December of this year. If you, Young Man, have seen footage of our Geranium rockets dodging anti-aircraft fire (cannon fire) with a clear and high-quality image, that's precisely because of the already deployed satellites. By the time Okhotnik is ready, the global satellite constellation will be deployed. Otherwise, no one would be doing this.
            Quote: SovAr238A
            Your fantasies again.

            And the Russian BEK that sank the Ukrainian ship in the river delta was also guided by these satellites. And the image quality is no worse than Starlink's. Have you seen this footage? Rewatch it. Just don't choke on your bile.
            Quote: SovAr238A
            A developed radar complex is, first and foremost, the provision of information received from a radar...

            Young man, don't try to get smart with an air defense unit's combat command officer. And a radar specialist, specifically. In his basic military education.

            Quote: SovAr238A
            A constantly operating, uninterrupted channel with a ping level of no more than 10 ms is required.

            Young Man, this is what our satellite constellation is being created for. This is what it's being deployed for. This is what already provides the constellation with operational satellites.
            And stop being hysterical, it won't add any weight to your screams.
            When the grouping is deployed, even if not completely, the nature of the database will begin to change radically.
            And yes, we had a forced delay in starting to deploy the constellation. The satellites had been ready for at least two years, but some changes and improvements needed to be made after in-orbit testing. And we also had to finish working on the heavy launch vehicles. So, we could have had this constellation for a couple of years already. Based on the satellites' readiness. The heavy rocket wasn't ready.
    2. -3
      13 October 2025 12: 36
      Quote: Livonetc
      The combination of the SU 57 and S70 and a full testing of this combination in combat conditions could possibly suggest directions for further development.
      I haven't yet come across any materials about the combat use of this pair.
      Very interesting to know.


      Maybe it's time to get out of the cave? :))))
      The only use of the S-70 was such that the Ukrainians immediately took control of it and led it to their "hole"...
      As a result, the Su-57 pilot was forced to violate all possible Su-57 security regulations, enter the combat zone deep within Ukrainian territory, catch up with it, and shoot it down over Ukrainian territory...
      Now you probably know everything about the S-70.

      This is what people without bonnets and earflaps were originally saying.
      To create a "faithful slave," you must first create communication systems guaranteed to be secure for that very slave.
      And only then make the airplane.
      1. -1
        13 October 2025 16: 08
        To create a "faithful slave," you must first create communication systems guaranteed to be secure for that very slave.

        Not at all.
        No super-secure communication systems can solve the basic problems of creating a "faithful slave."
        Only by creating combat AI is a "faithful wingman" possible.
        1. +1
          13 October 2025 22: 27
          Quote: bk316
          Only by creating combat AI is a "faithful wingman" possible.

          How are you going to "let him off the chain"? With gestures?
          How do you get basic information about its readiness and serviceability from it? Teach it to wave flags? Three planes are heading toward you with it, so how do you distribute them among the two of you? Or do you both shoot one at a time first, and then on the ground, you'll have to figure out who's the "iron blockhead"? :)
          1. -1
            15 October 2025 12: 13
            How are you going to let him off the chain?

            You just don't understand how AI works.
            Programs can act in concert without exchanging signals. This is precisely how the P-700 worked.
            This is so because they are the same; for the average person, it can be formulated as "unlike a person, program instances think the same way, which means each instance understands what the other will do." Therefore, it is necessary to COMPLETELY EXCLUDE HUMANS FROM THE PROCESS OF MAKING OPERATIONAL DECISIONS.
            If you turn on your brain, you will understand that your question is banal.
            Answer: Any deterministic selection algorithm will do.
            1. +2
              15 October 2025 16: 03
              Quote: bk316
              You just don't understand how AI works.

              But I understand how the natural one works :) Unlike you, apparently. So just accept it as a given: there is no AI anywhereNeural networks are as far removed from the concept of "intelligence" as your above-formatted post is from reality.

              I know how distributed computing systems work. That's not what I asked you about. I asked you about who would make the decision to attack this specific target. And who would be held responsible for the error. In the case of the P-700's "swarm intelligence," the decision was made by a human who, using satellite and aerial reconnaissance data, identified a certain group of objects in the ocean as a US carrier strike group and gave the command to destroy EVERYTHING at specific coordinates. The swarm of missiles flew where the human indicated and, without making an attack decision, began working on a target distribution algorithm. The human decided to attack, using its natural intelligence. Missiles don't need intelligence. A simple algorithm for distributing the "spot" size will work. And this exchange is precisely what's needed, far more than neural network-based bluffs. Because if an ARV with 16 missiles operates according to identical algorithms, it's more likely that all 16 will simply taxi to the same "juiciest" target. But they won’t distribute 10 goals among themselves according to their importance.
              A simple "deterministic selection algorithm" will lead to just that. All the "followers" will rush en masse to attack the one "deterministic" one, deemed the most important or dangerous. :)
              The role of intelligence is to DISTRIBUTE targets according to importance (which is easy to do with a "simple deterministic algorithm") and direct each wingman toward his own target, and most importantly, to allow the wingmen to attack the targets. After all, the most important thing in this situation is to RECOGNIZE the target.
              You will most likely understand, without even turning on your brain, that the complex that brings down everyone in a row, both friends and foes, in Terminator mode, and in such a way that NO ONE is responsible for its actions, no one cares.
            2. +1
              15 October 2025 20: 53
              Quote: bk316
              deterministic selection algorithm


              Learn what LLM is, it is the basis of the so-called AI.
              And then stop talking nonsense about excluding the businessman.
            3. +1
              20 October 2025 00: 04
              You just don't understand how AI works.
              Let's be honest? No one in the world fully understands this yet. There's still no definitive mathematical theory that could describe work and, consequently, provide accurate predictions of work (behavior).
      2. +1
        14 October 2025 18: 20
        The Ukrainians immediately took control of the S-70 and led it to their "hole"
        Perhaps they were showing what the S-70 saw at that moment? Were there any details? Were they preparing the airfield? Or maybe they were just telling you? And you believed the lies?
      3. KCA
        +1
        18 October 2025 13: 12
        So, the idiots decrypted the secure communications channel on the fly? And even jammed the wingman's connection with the master? What kind of electronic warfare system do they have that selectively jams one transmitter, while their own work perfectly, intercepting and taking control? What commands are used to control the wingman? Who told them? Doesn't a drone of this class and size have a function to automatically return to base if the master is lost?
  9. +1
    13 October 2025 08: 29
    USA – there is no sixth generation aircraft.
    Europe – there are no sixth-generation aircraft, and there is confidence that there never will be.
    China – there are planes, they fly, but to what extent they are “sixth” is very difficult to say.
    Russia – there is no sixth generation aircraft.


    And nothing will fundamentally change in the foreseeable future. IMHO. hi
    1. +3
      13 October 2025 08: 41
      Quote: smerx24
      And in the foreseeable future nothing will fundamentally change.

      I wouldn't be so confident. Tomorrow, this contraption will fly for the 11th time. If it replicates the previous flight, it means the system is working, and subsequent tests are highly likely to be successful. This means the likelihood of creating a sixth-generation aircraft will increase.
    2. 0
      14 October 2025 06: 49
      Quote: smerx24
      Russia – there is no sixth generation aircraft.

      And nothing will fundamentally change in the foreseeable future. IMHO.

      I wouldn't be so categorical about the last point, simply because no one has yet clearly defined the characteristics of a 6th-generation aircraft.
      If it's an unmanned aircraft built using stealth technology, if it's a finless tailless vehicle with AI elements, then in principle we have it, it's flying, developing, improving, being upgraded, and to unlock its potential, the only thing missing is a deployed global secure communications satellite system. But it's precisely this constellation that's now beginning its deployment. More than twenty satellites are already in orbit and have already proven themselves in combat (providing guidance, controlling attack drones, unmanned aerial vehicles, and cruise missiles) during the air defense war. And the full constellation's operational deployment will begin in December of this year and promises to be complete within two years. The head of the program creating these satellites was recently appointed head of Roscosmos. And this is the same young man whom some superficial observers on forums call a "banker."

      Moreover, the Su-57M1, which will be deployed next year, can already be classified as a 5+, and if we use 4th-generation aircraft classification standards, then a full 5++. The new engine, with its unrivaled power-to-weight ratio and fuel efficiency, and its flat, controllable (all-aspect!) nozzle, is already at least a 5+. And the new AESA radar system with new heat-resistant anti-torpedo tubes ensures detection of standard targets at a range of over 500 km, which exceeds the capabilities of any modern airborne radar—another plus. And it is this radar that ensures the combat use of the R-37M and R-97 air-to-air missiles at their maximum/ultimate range, i.e., up to 400 km.
      The Su-57M1 has significantly improved its radar and infrared stealth capabilities. Its onboard AI-based command and control system has also been significantly improved. So, based on these parameters alone, it's a clear step into the next generation. However, to unlock all these capabilities, it's necessary to deploy its own secure global communications satellite constellation. Deployment has already begun, and it's expected to be completed within two years.
      This isn't just a matter of throwing caps in the air and "hurray for the holster," it's our current reality. Once the global communications system is deployed, everything will change qualitatively, almost beyond recognition. If only they could get it deployed in time.
      1. VlK
        0
        15 October 2025 17: 22
        So, based on the totality of parameters, we can quite easily talk about a step into the next generation.

        It seems to me that the differences between generations cannot be described as quantitative increases in performance indicators, but only as qualitative ones, even if only as one of the options - appearing as a result of a "natural transition from quantitative to qualitative changes" (c)classic Well, or the emergence of completely new capabilities that were not inherent in the previous generation.
        And in general, the fifth-generation KMK isn't characterized by a set of characteristics, but by a different concept for using strike aircraft, particularly the MFI. And low observability, supersonic speed in afterburner, and other technical characteristics are simply properties that enable the use of such aircraft within this concept. They are not simply a set of features for inclusion in the fifth generation in and of themselves, outside of the overall new system of air combat organization.
        1. VlK
          0
          15 October 2025 18: 46
          Accordingly, the distinctive features for inclusion in the 6th generation should be considered from this angle
        2. -2
          15 October 2025 19: 01
          So you want to say that if the MiG-23 or Su-27 are equipped with a modern interface, satellite communications and included in a single combat control circuit, then they will be equivalent to the same Su-57 or at least the F-35?
          That's why aircraft, combat fighters, are divided into generations (it just happened, and it wasn't our idea), because it's the aircraft themselves that are evaluated. Only then are their capabilities considered in the context of existing combat control systems. The criteria for the 5th generation were declared, and stealth technology was the key requirement/condition. Supersonic cruising is an interesting and extremely useful option; it increases combat radius and the permitted duration of supersonic flight (previous aircraft could only reach supersonic speeds for a few minutes by performing a supersonic burst), and this is due to engines with high specific thrust. Avionics also has its own stages of development. The advent of phased array (PAS), then active phased array (APS), then gallium arsenide anti-tank missiles were replaced by more heat-resistant gallium nitride anti-tank missiles, resulting in an immediate increase in pulse power, detection range, and continuous radar operation time. The software was also improved, a synthetic aperture was introduced, and the radar's resistance to interference and stealth were increased thanks to the multi-frequency nature of the probing pulse. The same is true for the Su-57, whose engine demonstrates superior specific thrust—slightly lighter and shorter than the AL-41F-1S, it produces significantly more thrust while maintaining lower specific fuel consumption. Its flat, controllable, all-aspect nozzle is unmatched by any of its rivals or competitors, while the power loss during flow conversion in the nozzle is at least half that of the F-22.
          And yes, we're also deploying a global, encrypted, high-performance communications satellite constellation. And combat control systems linking all information sources and all connected combat platforms into a single command loop. We're late, but we're getting there.
          As a result, as a combat unit, the Su-57, and especially the Su-57M1, is the best not only of the existing but also of the prospective 5th-generation fighters. And in its latest version, this is true in virtually every respect. This includes the detection range of the airborne missile system and a continuous field of view of approximately 270 degrees in azimuth—a feat that no one else has, yet the Chinese are attempting to replicate with their 6th-generation prototype. Even if successful, the Chinese will have a somewhat smaller field of view, purely due to the airframe's geometry.
          So, it is the Su-57M1 according to such parameters as:
          - engines,
          - quality and characteristics of the BRLK,
          - the presence of ultra-long-range missiles in the internal weapons compartment of the BC, - the presence of artificial intelligence elements in the combat information and control system,
          It has already entered the 6th generation. Or simply reached a new, next level of development. And based on the combined parameters achieved, we are at least 10 years ahead of our competitors. Meanwhile, our new fighter will be entering service with the military as early as next year, while the US and Europeans will not have new aircraft (with as-yet-unknown capabilities) for at least 10-15 years.
          The Chinese are doing better in terms of airframe, avionics and armament, and new aircraft could begin to enter service even in 5-7 years, but in terms of quality and engine parameters, they still have about 15 years of hard work to do to reach our current level.
          This is the layout of today.
          Moreover, by the end of the year, we will have the Su-75 taking off, meaning that a light single-seat 5th+ generation multipurpose fighter jet will also appear.
          Europe may not have anything at all, or at least not until 2040. But in the US, we'll see what the F-47 turns out to be.

          Incidentally, when the USSR adopted this generational gradation, they simply decided that new, qualitatively new fighters should appear every 10 years. Look at the "5th generation" prototypes the USSR had back then, and you'll see that the USSR's vision of combat aviation development was somewhat different from the US's. We didn't have such a fanatical emphasis on stealth back then.
          1. VlK
            0
            15 October 2025 19: 47
            So you want to say that if the MiG-23 or Su-27 are equipped with a modern interface, satellite communications and included in a single combat control circuit, then they will be equivalent to the same Su-57 or at least the F-35?

            No, I don't think so. Without low radar signature and supersonic speed without afterburners, they won't be able to quickly reach the launch line undetected, fire at external target designation, and quickly leave this dangerous area - they don't have the necessary technical characteristics for the operation of 5th generation aircraft.
            So, it is the Su-57M1 according to such parameters as:
            - engines,
            - quality and characteristics of the BRLK,
            - the presence of ultra-long-range missiles in the internal weapons compartment of the BC, - the presence of artificial intelligence elements in the combat information and control system,
            has already stepped into the 6th generation.
            But did he actually achieve a qualitative superiority due to this set of characteristics, so that he could be classified as belonging to the next generation, or does he simply surpass his classmates in them, even if significantly, but still only quantitatively?
            By the way, when the USSR adopted this generational gradation, they simply decided that every 10 years new fighters of a qualitatively new level should appear.

            But we are now living according to global trends, and there, for example, unmanned aerial vehicles are increasingly considered to be 6th generation, potentially possessing what due to this? - Yes, all the same qualitatively new opportunities, which is what I'm actually trying to say.
            And here, for example, I'm deeply upset by this: it seems we haven't been inventing new combat concepts ourselves lately, simply following global trends set by the US and its allies. We're constantly competing with them in terms of new weapons, even surpassing our competitors in some areas, but chronically lagging at least one step behind at the start, as we're only reacting to their innovations in military thought and technology. So, it turns out we're no longer leaders in military thought and science, but are constantly playing catch-up, having lost our former leadership. And this, I believe, is completely abnormal, and one day, alas, it will come back to haunt us very, very badly...
            1. VlK
              +2
              15 October 2025 19: 57
              But did he actually achieve a qualitative superiority due to this set of characteristics, so that he could be classified as belonging to the next generation, or does he simply surpass his classmates in them, even if significantly, but still only quantitatively?

              Yes, we created an excellent single-handed aerial fighter, possibly the best in the world, while they created a silent hunter, a killer penguin, which, by design, is not supposed to engage in aerial combat. Accordingly, it doesn't need super-maneuverability or a super-radar. It's the system's strike element, and it shouldn't be overloaded with unnecessary capabilities, which would significantly increase its cost. It should be mass-produced, allowing for relatively painless replacement of worn-out or damaged components with similar ones without losing system functionality, like modern computer circuit boards. I think that's the whole point. And here everyone laughs at its unrealistic parameters and capabilities, obviously misunderstanding what exactly it's optimized for as a technical product.
              1. 0
                15 October 2025 23: 02
                Quote: VlK
                Yes, we have created an excellent air fighter on its own, perhaps the best in the world.

                This is the purpose of a fighter. Moreover, our fighters can engage not only one-on-one, but also an entire group of opponents. The capabilities of the radar, fire control system, and the composition of the ammunition allow for this.
                Quote: VlK
                and they created a silent hunter, a killer penguin), which, according to the plan, should not engage in air combat, and therefore super-maneuverability and super-radar are of no use to it

                This is a mistake. By the way, its radar is very good, but the flight characteristics, the composition of the ammunition, and the number of missiles on board No. Not to mention its technical reliability, as evidenced by internal US Department of Defense reports. The penguin is a very peculiar bird... it can't fly at all without a kick.
                Quote: VlK
                This is the striking element of the system; it should not be overloaded with unnecessary features, including making it much more expensive.

                And yet, they've gone up in price. And now NATO is rearming with it and has no alternative. If it were a purely niche aircraft for stealthy infiltration and precision strikes, a special mission aircraft, with a fully-fledged air superiority fighter available, then yes. But since it's now NATO's primary all-purpose combat aircraft, without a robust fighter for cover, without the ability to carry large ammunition for powerful strikes (the curse of stealth and internal ammunition placement), with limited performance characteristics and low technical reliability and operational readiness... All of this is only a plus for us today. This closes the gap for us and levels the playing field.
                Quote: VlK
                It should be massive for a relatively painless replacement of those who have left

                Hmm... given its operational readiness, within a week of fighting, they'll all be grounded for purely technical reasons. I'm exaggerating, of course, but having such a machine from the enemy would definitely be advantageous to us.
                Quote: VlK
                And here we all laugh at its unrealistic parameters and capabilities, obviously not understanding what exactly it is optimized for as a technical product.

                I spoke with one of its creators, a Yakovlev Design Bureau designer working out a contract in the US, on the very first day of his return to Moscow... He was just beginning testing and fine-tuning then. If they had left it as a VTOL aircraft only... but fortunately for us, they made it NATO's primary fighter.
            2. +1
              15 October 2025 22: 44
              Quote: VlK
              But did he actually achieve a qualitative superiority due to this set of characteristics, so that he could be classified as belonging to the next generation, or does he simply surpass his classmates in them, even if significantly, but still only quantitatively?

              You're strangely confusing the concepts of quantitative and qualitative indicators. A quantitative increase would roughly mean replacing two engines with three (as the Chinese did). Or, to achieve greater engine thrust, simply build a new, larger engine that's 1.5 times heavier and bulkier, consumes 1,5 times more fuel, but produces almost 1.5 times more thrust. That's a quantitative increase with the same quality.
              And if the problem of supercritical temperatures on turbine blades is solved through new alloys, a single-crystal blade structure, heat-resistant coatings, and effective cooling through air circulation inside the blade from the secondary circuit (or coolant), which allows for 20% more thrust than the previous engine with the same weight and size, then this is definitely the next generation of the engine, because its QUALITY has improved. The same can be said about the radar, the composition and quality of the avionics suite, and the aerodynamic challenges of ensuring super-maneuverability with sufficient airframe rigidity. All this is precisely QUALITY.
              And quantitatively... well, that's if you put four engines on a propeller-driven bomber instead of two, and due to this increase the length and cross-section of the fuselage, the fuel supply, the bomb load... But even in this case, the quality will increase in many respects.
              I'm not saying the Su-57M1 is already a 6th-generation fighter. It's more likely to be considered a 5++ generation fighter (based on its engine and avionics, including radar and AI components). But I strongly suspect that the American F-47 will, at best, catch up with or duplicate its characteristics and capabilities. In any case, it will be interesting to see.
              And a few more words about the quality... of the same AL-51F1. It turned out to be slightly lighter than even the AL-31F (according to reports from the developer 3-4 years ago, by about 100 kg), noticeably shorter and slightly larger in cross-section. It has fewer stages in the compressor and turbine, which is obviously possible due to the use of more advanced blade geometry. Due to this, the engine has become noticeably shorter, and this is not only in size, but also in weight. Record-breaking temperature indicators on the turbine blades provide higher thrust, more complete combustion and, accordingly, lower specific fuel consumption. The gain is a few percent everywhere, but in total, with less weight and dimensions, the thrust in afterburner is 17,500 kg.s versus 14,500 kg.s for the AL-41F-1S and 13,500 kg.s. The AL-31F. And at maximum non-afterburning power, it produces 11,000 kgf versus 9,500 kgf for the AL-41F-1S. These are the QUALITATIVE DIFFERENCES. And this is despite the fact that the AL-41F was originally the 5th generation engine for the experimental MiG-1.42 (with an initial thrust of 15,500 kgf), while the AL-31F is, accordingly, the 4th generation. Look at the difference between the 4th and 5th generations (first stage) and evaluate the AL-51F1 against this background.
              Quote: VlK
              We constantly compete with them in the quality of new weapons, in some ways even surpassing our competitors, but chronically lagging behind at least one step at the start, since we only react to the manifestation of their new military ideas and military technology.

              This has been the case almost/practically always, because our starting positions were completely different. For a long time, we were in a race for the leader, because to lead, you first need to catch up. After all, in the post-war period, we were competing with the richest, most powerful, and most developed country on this planet, whose GDP in 1945 amounted to approximately 51-52% of the world's GDP. And we experienced the most terrible war in history on our territory; most of our European part lay in ruins. We lost 27 million people, including about 20 million civilians. And we were able to catch up with the United States so quickly only thanks to the superiority of our socio-political system. Although in the United States, economic science was more than at its best in those years. So our initial lag was entirely objective. But in the first post-war years, we were only half a body length behind and always responded to challenges. We even had the strategic jet bomber (M-4) before the B-52. However, by the mid-1970s, we were practically neck and neck, often outsmarting them conceptually. By the fourth generation, we already had a qualitative advantage. And if the USSR hadn't collapsed, we would have consolidated that advantage. A qualitative advantage, indeed.
              Now, as Russia regains its superpower status (and we're still in the process), we've acquired a fighter jet that's qualitatively superior to its US competitors for at least 10 years. We probably didn't even have something like this under the USSR. Moreover, the aircraft is already in serial production and will be deployed next year. And the Su-75-LFMI is on the way, which, if quickly brought into serial production, could become a bestseller, just as the magnificent MiG-21 once was.
              It's too early to talk about any kind of leadership; at least quantitatively, we're still lagging behind, but we're making significant qualitative changes and rapidly re-equipping the Aerospace Forces with new aircraft. And we traditionally compensate for our numerical inferiority in combat aviation with numerous missiles of various classes and ranges.
              1. VlK
                0
                31 October 2025 11: 45
                You're strangely confusing the concepts of quantitative and qualitative indicators. A quantitative increase would roughly mean replacing two engines with three (as the Chinese did). Or, to achieve greater engine thrust, simply build a new, larger engine that's 1.5 times heavier and bulkier, consumes 1,5 times more fuel, but produces almost 1.5 times more thrust. That's a quantitative increase with the same quality.

                No, I don't think I'm confusing things in this case. Increasing the engine's quantitative performance could very well translate into a qualitative improvement, even a new class and generation, but overall, the aircraft equipped with it will likely retain the same capabilities, just improving them.
                "Did he actually achieve a qualitative superiority due to this set of characteristics, so that he could be classified as belonging to the next generation, or does he simply surpass his classmates in them, even if significantly, but still only quantitatively?" - my quote.
                So, I think that without acquiring some fundamentally new capabilities, classifying the aircraft as next-generation would be incorrect from the standpoint of establishing a consistent classification, although you probably won't agree. But in any case, thanks for the interesting discussion.
                1. +1
                  31 October 2025 13: 07
                  Quote: VlK
                  Without obtaining some new fundamental capabilities, classifying the aircraft as belonging to the next generation would be incorrect from the point of view of constructing a consistent classification,

                  Currently, improvements are primarily in the avionics area (an advanced electronically scanned array (AESA) radar with extended detection range, an onboard ELINT and electronic warfare system, a powerful radar with a thermal imaging channel, secure satellite communications channels, integration of the aircraft into a single network-centric control, warning, data transmission, and management system, onboard AI elements that make the pilot's job easier, and an air defense system with new, previously unavailable capabilities). At the same time, the performance characteristics of fighters remain roughly at the level of the 4th generation, as this is the physical limit of a human being for overloads and the technical limit for maximum speeds and altitudes - more is possible, but complexity and cost grow disproportionately to functionality. Oh yes - requirements for ensuring maximum possible stealth through airframe geometry, radar-absorbing coatings, and the use of composites for the skin, which have become mandatory since the early 1990s. Of the few active fifth-generation fighters, not all have yet fully achieved fifth-generation standards. The Su-57 has. And the Su-57M1 modification has already crossed this threshold to 5+. If its stated characteristics are correct, they should be entering service next year.
                  1. VlK
                    0
                    31 October 2025 13: 22
                    At the same time, the performance characteristics of fighters remain approximately at the level of the 4th generation, because this is the physical limit of a person for overloads and the technical limit for maximum speeds and altitude - more is possible, but the complexity and cost increase disproportionately to the functionality.

                    There's a persistent rumor now that the hallmark of a sixth-generation aircraft will be its unmanned flight. Perhaps it's just an option for now. Do you share this opinion?
                    And another question for a combat aviation professional: don't you think the current fighter-bomber-attack aircraft classification is outdated and no longer reflects current realities? Isn't it time to transition to something like a light attack multirole aircraft + heavy attack aircraft + possibly a super-heavy aircraft (what strategic aviation currently uses, although the prospects for strategic aviation in its current form are periodically disputed)?
                    1. +1
                      31 October 2025 14: 39
                      Quote: VlK
                      They keep saying that the hallmark of a sixth-generation aircraft will be its unmanned flight. Perhaps it's just an option for now. Do you share this opinion?

                      No, but as an option, yes. That's what's currently being developed: a fighter jet can, if the pilot is incapacitated, return to the airfield and land independently, assist the pilot in completing the combat mission, monitor the situation, and conduct its own operational monitoring. But I wouldn't trust the AI ​​to execute the combat mission. Perhaps in conjunction with a "loyal wingman." The human pilot should be in control and make their own decisions.
                      Quote: VlK
                      Don't you think that the current fighter-bomber-attack aircraft classification is outdated and no longer reflects current realities?

                      No. An MFI is a universal MFI. A Sturmovik is a battlefield attack aircraft, capable of armored search and engagement of detected targets in real time, plus external target designation. It's becoming a thing of the past, now being replaced by attack UAVs, but it's still in demand. A fighter-bomber/frontline bomber is a separate specialization for both the aircraft and the pilot. It has specialized avionics, more advanced avionics for ground operations, and is an integral part of the RUK (reconnaissance and strike complex). It can fend off fighters, but only optionally; it's a strike aircraft professionally tailored for that. And a professional will always do a better job than a generalist. As has been noted many times, a generalist performs all tasks equally poorly. This applies to pilots. That's why even MFI pilots try to separate pilots by their primary tasks. Roughly speaking, one squadron is tasked with achieving air superiority, while another performs strike missions, striking targets on the ground. Even the basic skills of pilots must be different. Therefore, to perform well, even on a multi-role fighter, such a division of tasks is considered essential. This is based on the long-standing flight and combat experience of the US Air Force and Navy – they were the first to want a multi-role fighter and the first to arrive at the correct conclusions. And they even make their fighters specialized in terms of avionics and software, even if they are based on the same base, like the F-18, F-16, and F-15.
      2. -1
        27 January 2026 21: 47
        The new AESA radar system, equipped with new heat-resistant anti-tank missiles, enables detection of standard targets at ranges exceeding 500 km.
        The Su-57M1 has significantly improved its stealth characteristics in the radar range.
        contradictory parameters, it will of course be barely noticeable if the radar is turned off laughing
  10. +1
    13 October 2025 08: 40
    The picture shows a bomber. It's slow and unmaneuverable. Do we need that?
    1. +5
      13 October 2025 09: 10
      Quote: pin_code
      The picture shows a bomber. It's slow and unmaneuverable. Do we need that?

      This is most likely a fantasy about the PAK-DA, which was claimed to be subsonic and stealthy.
      1. +2
        13 October 2025 10: 18
        That's right, "low-observable," but still noticeable, right? In the event of a conflict with the US (and that's what they're needed for, basically). It could be easily intercepted over the ocean. During a tense period, the Americans will deploy every capable aircraft carrier to the farthest interception line. Although... It doesn't matter. Everyone and everything will be seen during the attack preparation phase.
        1. +2
          13 October 2025 19: 20
          Quote: pin_code
          It could be easily intercepted over the ocean. During the hot period, the Americans will deploy all their capable aircraft carriers.

          Over the Arctic? Good luck.
          Quote: pin_code
          Although... It doesn't matter. Everyone and everything will see during the preparation stage for the attack.

          No one will see anything. And even if they do, they won't be able to react anyway.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 20: 58
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Quote: pin_code
            It could be easily intercepted over the ocean. During the hot period, the Americans will deploy all their capable aircraft carriers.

            Over the Arctic? Good luck.
            Quote: pin_code
            Although... It doesn't matter. Everyone and everything will see during the preparation stage for the attack.

            No one will see anything. And even if they do, they won't be able to react anyway.


            Andrey! You used to be reasonable.
            Just answer yourself this question: why, 2-3 minutes after the takeoff of a MiG-31 or Tu-95, or Tu-22, is there an air raid alarm all over Ukraine?
            Why?
            If you want to figure it out, you will figure it out.
            The conclusion is actually very simple.


            Preparing a Tu-160 for takeoff according to Soviet standards takes more than 160 hours.

            Nowadays, non-core intelligence has much stronger qualities than having a spy inside the headquarters.
            1. 0
              15 October 2025 21: 41
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Just answer yourself this question: why, 2-3 minutes after the takeoff of a MiG-31 or Tu-95, or Tu-22, is there an air raid alarm all over Ukraine?

              Typically, because that's part of our plans. This includes stopping work in Ukraine, as everyone is in shelters, and minimizing civilian casualties from the strikes.
              Quote: SovAr238A
              The conclusion is actually very simple.

              Well, do it then, why should I guess what you came to?
  11. +2
    13 October 2025 08: 47
    How long can we draw glass cabins? The sixth generation should already be unmanned! lol
  12. +5
    13 October 2025 09: 24
    With the advent of neural networks and the ability to beautifully visualize any nonsense, we'll soon be entering the 10th generation...
  13. 0
    13 October 2025 09: 35
    Battle of renders.
    AI is in charge now.
  14. +3
    13 October 2025 10: 00
    The 5th generation as a complex is currently only available in the USA.
    The aircraft as such is part of the system.
    Everyone else may have an airplane, but they don't have the whole steel complex.
    Therefore, there is no established practice of using 5th generation against 5th generation.
    They jumped above their heads and hung slightly.
    It's too early to think about practical considerations regarding the 6th generation. And it's also too early to think about AI.
    1. +2
      13 October 2025 19: 20
      Quote: garri-lin
      And it’s also too early to think about AI.

      We have to, since we don't have enough of our own...
      1. 0
        13 October 2025 22: 41
        It needs to be developed. But it's too early to think about practical implementation.
        Judging by the reports from those developing this topic, it hasn't even begun yet. The hardware seems to be up to par, but the software...
    2. 0
      13 October 2025 22: 47
      Quote: garri-lin
      The 5th generation as a complex is currently only available in the USA.

      Can you even formulate the general technical characteristics of this "fifth generation"? Or, like other "popmech analysts," say it's like the Raptor.
      There is no such thing as a "fifth generation," and there never was. This term was invented by Lokhokid Martin's marketing team to justify the exploding price of the F-22 fighter. However, no one has ever defined the characteristics of third, fourth, or fifth generations. Fighter aircraft have never been divided into generations. There's the enemy's fleet, their performance characteristics, and the military, which wants an aircraft superior to the enemy's in certain parameters. The Soviet school of aircraft engineering adopted a 10% improvement over US aircraft. And there were no generations. Development was systematic and gradual, with new aircraft appearing when the modernization potential of previous ones was exhausted.
      That's precisely why NO, the US doesn't have any "fifth-generation" system. The Raptor, throughout its entire career, never achieved the "parameters" it was initially projected to have, not to mention the fact that it was never used in combat. And the Penguin barely even... technically It's mission-ready. Fleet readiness is very low, maintenance is too expensive, and the aircraft suffer from defects that require return to the manufacturer, even without ever having flown a combat mission. There still isn't any system in place. All those "Vienna Woods tales" about integrating the Penguin into military systems have so far ended up on the pages of PopMech. The army can barely keep it flying. It's not worth fighting. There's a lot of talk about resuming production and purchasing modernized 14/16 generation aircraft, since manufacturers already have them.

      In the last 10 years, despite my keen interest, I've seen only ONE article that made a sound engineering attempt to formulate the requirements for the "fifth generation" and "predict the requirements for the sixth." And I assure you, it's not about stealth and pew-pee, and it's definitely not about AI. :)
      There's something about engine operating modes and the adaptive wing, for example... :)
      1. -2
        13 October 2025 22: 53
        A lot of words.
        1. Penguin is the 4++ generation.
        2. Raptor has never been used, but it can do a lot. For an old man.
        1. -1
          13 October 2025 23: 09
          Quote: garri-lin
          2. Raptor has never been used, but it can do a lot. For an old man.


          -- Doctor, I'm 75, and I can only see my wife once a night...
          -- Mark Abramovich, my God, at your age this is a wonderful indicator! You're doing great!
          -- Yes, but Rabinovich says he can do it twice!
          -- That's what you say too, who's stopping you!
  15. +4
    13 October 2025 10: 21
    China doesn't have a sixth-generation aircraft. A generation is at least 50% ENGINE. The Chinese can only COPY a fourth-generation engine (!!!), and even then, with reliability and a lifespan 1,5 times shorter than that of Soviet/Russian fourth-generation engines (the fourth generation appeared in our country in the mid-1970s, so almost half a century ago), and with incomplete retention of the engine's performance characteristics!
    China needs 5-10 years to learn to copy a 4th-generation engine 1:1, and another 5-10 years to create its own. We're not even talking about a 6th-generation engine, let alone a 5th-generation one.
    As for the rest (except the engine), which could be considered the 6th generation, here too the USA is 2 heads above China, and Russia is 1 head above.
    The fact that they have it flying... hmm... The F-117 was also somehow forced to fly, and it was a freak that flew... What I'm getting at is that we and the Americans can come up with a lot of such designs as supposedly new Chinese aircraft, and getting them into the air is no problem (just like the F-117 monster), but what's the point?
    1. 0
      13 October 2025 10: 59
      Quote: Antony
      The Chinese can actually only COPY the 4th(!!!) generation engine, and that too with reliability and service life.

      The Chinese are very actively developing several lines of their engines
      For example, the WS-15. It seems to be copied from our 79-300, but not exactly.
      There are other engines they're also trying to improve. So far, their progress has been quite modest, not because they haven't come up with anything, but because they don't have the same material base for new alloys. But how long will this hold them back?
      1. +1
        13 October 2025 11: 24
        It's hard to say, but I'd guess it's been a long time. They've been studying the MiG-31 (the first 4th-generation aircraft they received) for 35+ years, but... They received other 4th-generation aircraft not much later either (in the first half of the 1990s), which is also 30+ years. And 30-35 years isn't exactly a year or five years. They're making slow progress. But then again, that's all 4th generation, and there's a vast gulf between the 4th and 5th generations (not to mention the 6th). I seriously doubt they'll have a 5th-generation engine even by 2050.
        1. +2
          13 October 2025 11: 27
          I don't believe that all the documentation for the MiG-31 was handed over in 1991.
          They started active work on engines about 15 years ago, at most, when a new generation of engineers grew up and a new material base was created.
          Moreover, one should not forget about their industrial espionage.
          The problem lies precisely in the technologies for producing materials, and it cannot be circumvented even by the most brilliant personnel – it takes time to develop a knowledge base and experience.
          1. 0
            13 October 2025 11: 34
            I disagree about the 15 years. They were working at maximum capacity all the time since 1949. And of course, they didn't hand over all the documentation. Another thing is that in subsequent years they could have received this documentation, official or unofficial, and they certainly worked with the engine designers, materials scientists, technologists, engineers, etc.
            1. +1
              13 October 2025 11: 35
              Quote: Antony
              They have been working at maximum capacity since 1949.

              Let's not call that kindergarten "maximum"
              1. 0
                13 October 2025 11: 36
                They had to do everything from scratch, and this is a kindergarten, even a crèche, probably.
                1. +1
                  13 October 2025 11: 41
                  We are talking about competitive work in the field of TRD.
                  Even our designers and scientists, forced to take up the subject only after the war, were lucky if they'd reached a level of compelling consideration by the early 60s. And they already had a solid background. China, on the other hand, started from scratch, and that near-zero stage lasted for quite a while—even cooperation with the USSR, the purchase of certain technologies like the Tu-16, didn't help.
                  The situation began to change, as usual, with personnel, when the Cultural Revolution was halted. Then, 10-15 years later, a generation emerged that took the issue seriously. And that's 1976 + 10 = 1986, at best. This is the point when China could already have engineers on a large scale. At the same time, a process of relocating many industries to China took place, which also contributed to the growth of personnel.
                  This coincided with the collapse of the USSR and the massive leakage of technology for pennies and the opportunity to extract specialists and documentation for oneself.
                  1. +1
                    13 October 2025 11: 47
                    Well, it's been 40 years now (since 1986). Oh well, I'll say it again: if they do it on their own, they won't see a 5th-generation engine for another 25 years. We'll see.
                    1. 0
                      13 October 2025 12: 16
                      Quote: Antony
                      They won't see a 5th generation engine for another 25 years.

                      They already have one, and it's at least a third original. The only problem is the service life. I remember the MiG-29 had a similar problem.
                      I think that China will figure out turbine blade technology in about 10 years, while also improving other aspects, but certainly not in 25 years.
                      The main reason for my confidence is that China produces 15 times more engineers annually than we do, and many of them find jobs in their fields. And this will sooner or later impact their results, and it already is.
                      1. +2
                        13 October 2025 19: 22
                        Quote: multicaat
                        I think China will figure out turbine blade technology in about 10 years.

                        Based on some Al-31F analogs, yes, it's possible. But how long will it take them to get to a modern engine?
                      2. 0
                        14 October 2025 08: 42
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But how long will it take them to get to a modern engine?

                        What is a modern engine???
                        In fact, a dual-circuit turbojet can be designed to be as temperature-efficient as possible, and the blade requirements can be reduced—even more easily than, say, our civilian PD-14. At the same time, the exhaust temperature will also decrease. Don't think that everything depends on the blades.
                        But the Chinese are not looking for easy ways - they want to achieve both maximum performance and normal reliability.
                      3. -1
                        14 October 2025 20: 36
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: multicaat
                        I think China will figure out turbine blade technology in about 10 years.

                        Based on some Al-31F analogs, yes, it's possible. But how long will it take them to get to a modern engine?


                        AEF1200, civilian, modern? We don't have any of those...
                        WS-15 - military, modern?
                        WS-19 ?


                        Have you heard of the ODE engine? I don't think so.
                        Have we heard anything similar? I'm sure not.
                      4. 0
                        14 October 2025 21: 33
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        AEF1200, civilian, modern? We don't have any of those...

                        We don't have a lot of things, but what does this have to do with military engine building for the MFI?
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        WS-15 - military, modern?

                        No. In fact, there's no certainty that it even exists.
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        WS-19 ?

                        Nope:)
                      5. 0
                        15 October 2025 20: 59
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        AEF1200, civilian, modern? We don't have any of those...

                        We don't have a lot of things, but what does this have to do with military engine building for the MFI?
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        WS-15 - military, modern?

                        No. In fact, there's no certainty that it even exists.
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        WS-19 ?

                        Nope:)


                        Well, yes.
                        The main thing is to follow the lawyer's command: deny everything!
                      6. +1
                        15 October 2025 21: 37
                        Quote: SovAr238A
                        The main thing is to follow the lawyer's orders

                        Al, you brought up one civilian engine, which has nothing to do with this, a second engine, about which nothing is known, but for some reason the Chinese themselves are not burning with desire to urgently replace what they fly with it, and the Guizhou WS-19, about which very little is known, but what is known is not impressive.
                        And I, therefore, deny everything:)))))
                    2. 0
                      14 October 2025 20: 10
                      Quote: Antony
                      Well, it's been 40 years now (since 1986). Oh well, I'll say it again: if they do it on their own, they won't see a 5th-generation engine for another 25 years. We'll see.


                      Watch the video with Tim Cook's words about engineers in China and the USA.

                      The meaning is this.
                      When Apple needs the most advanced, high-tech engineers, they can fit in one room when searching in the US.
                      If you search in China, you will find a stadium.
                      This was at a US Congressional hearing about why Apple's production is still in China and not transferred to the US.

                      The bottom line.
                      Stop talking nonsense about the backwardness of Chinese engineering.
                      They are overtaking the entire planet.
                      And they even started making their own lithographs, which in 10 years would completely overtake AMSL.
                      Engines - they are already creating.
    2. +1
      13 October 2025 23: 06
      Quote: Antony
      China doesn't have a sixth-generation aircraft. This generation is at least 50% ENGINE.

      So what's fundamentally new about the Penguin engine? Besides the exorbitant price? High thrust? ANY new engine is generally more powerful than its predecessors. Maybe it's a detonation engine? Multi-mode?
      No.
      There's no denying the Chinese aren't great with engines. But the Americans have an engine for the Penguin. Technically, they even have the Penguin itself. But why is the military still using 14/16 aircraft? They haven't even retired the A-10. Penguins have been in service since 2012. And the F-18s are still sitting on the deck of the George Ford. It'll soon be 15 years since the aircraft and the engine have been in service. But where is it?

      You're absolutely right: a combat aircraft is more than just an engine and an airframe. I don't know exactly why, but somehow it turns out that the Tu-95 and B-52 have every chance of celebrating their centennial in service, while gimmicks like the Nighthawk, Spirit, Raptor, and Penguin, if not for Hollywood movies, would have left the factory floors, inglorious and useless, and ended up in scrapyards.
  16. +4
    13 October 2025 10: 47
    I'd like to correct the author - what has changed in the filling of modern fighters?
    In total, we have accumulated enough data to create the 6th generation of technical specifications.
    1. Radar development—they can now see approximately twice as far as they could 20 years ago; side-view and even all-round radars are now available. Now, the latest Sukhoi fighters can detect an Il-76 from 400 km away.
    2. the possibility of launching missiles at supersonic speeds
    3. Turbojet engines continue to develop, and eight countries are already claiming they can build a supersonic fighter without afterburners. Furthermore, they are expanding the range of altitudes at which turbojet engines produce greater thrust, reducing fuel consumption.
    4. Weapon integration - nowadays multirole is no longer a surprise.
    5. Secondary elements of stealth technologies are being worked out.
    6. More attention is paid to the internal placement of fuel tanks and weapons, and to an integrated layout. The performance characteristics of aircraft built using stealth technology are improving.
    7. Composites and their wide application
    8. Information exchange, development of network-centric integration, more advanced navigation.
    9. Mass use of optical-electronic stations and various passive sensor operation modes
    10. Methods for reducing the IR footprint of an aircraft are being developed.
    11. Interaction with unmanned objects has emerged as a factor.
    12. As a factor - the ability to use gliding ammunition from a distance.
    13. With the development of AESA, the capabilities of electronic warfare are growing.
    1. -1
      13 October 2025 15: 35
      Turbojet engines continue to develop, and about 8 countries are already claiming that they can make a fighter with supersonic speed without afterburners.

      Could you please provide a list of these countries? Considering that they have their own engines.
      1. 0
        13 October 2025 15: 42
        It's probably better to list conditionally "our own" ones that are not in use
        England, Türkiye, China, Japan, France. India also claims to have their own, but they definitely don't have any of their own.
        I don't know which of them can be trusted, but they said
        1. 0
          14 October 2025 14: 33
          Anyone can say anything they want, but without the proper engines, it will all remain just talk.
  17. +2
    13 October 2025 10: 47
    Ah, Skomorokhov...
    He's driving some incomprehensible thing again...
    The start of development of the 6th generation was announced quite recently.
    The change in concept - from high-altitude, high-speed to stealth, leading swarm - was discussed a little earlier.
    Naturally, for now the pictures are still just dreams, as before... only a little more connected to modern realities.
    Search around – you can find hundreds of these "future fighter" pictures online... There are a couple dozen different MG 41s alone...

    And he makes some kind of "anti-victory" out of this.


    failure.
  18. 0
    13 October 2025 12: 55
    On the one hand, it seems useful; no enemy will be able to understand the swirls of gray matter that our science fiction writers churn out. On the other hand, it's somehow not very pleasant when our country's information space spews out terabytes of nonsense.

    The author decided to fight with himself?
    The hardest struggle is the one that a divided person wages with himself.

    Romain Rolland
  19. -2
    13 October 2025 14: 56
    Yes, unmanned vehicles can fly alongside aircraft, acting as flying batteries, but the effectiveness of all these “faithful wingmen” was best demonstrated by our S-70.

    No, he didn't show anything; we know very little about him. And rejecting the concept of a loyal wingman (which the S-70 certainly isn't) seems strange.
    Stealth was also discussed. Naturally, it had to be better than that of fifth-generation aircraft. What would be needed for this? New materials, new signal reflection principles... In other words, things that haven't yet been observed.

    Yes, there are test F22s that fly with new materials.
    1. 0
      13 October 2025 17: 55
      And these new materials are not significantly different from the old ones: they are afraid of strong heating, and they cannot withstand high speeds and overloads.
      1. 0
        14 October 2025 13: 06
        Where did you get this information? The old ones can withstand the same heat as a 4th-generation fighter (except for extreme conditions above Mach 2.5), and they can withstand high G-forces. That's not the direction the work is headed. New materials should dissipate radio signals more effectively, across various frequency ranges.
  20. +2
    13 October 2025 15: 25
    This particular image once again proves that AI is still mostly "artificial uguom"
    1. 0
      13 October 2025 17: 59
      There's no such thing as AI. There's just software that operates according to pre-programmed algorithms. AI requires a different foundation and computing power.
      1. 0
        14 October 2025 14: 36
        (c) "In reality, there are not so many gyracs, but they are so cleverly placed that they appear at every step." feel
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. 0
    13 October 2025 16: 57
    Our PAK DA was illustrated in the Ukrainian (!) magazine "Science and Technology" more than 10 years ago.
    1. +2
      13 October 2025 18: 00
      So what? Assumptions and drawings. Have you ever seen a PAK DA? No one has.
      1. 0
        14 October 2025 22: 50
        That's exactly what I'm talking about))
        That's exactly what I'm talking about))
  23. -1
    13 October 2025 17: 53
    Empty chatter. There's a modern truth: while the fifth and sixth generations are gobbling up budgets, the good old fourth generation is fighting. The paradox is that the fifth generation can only be useful in a war between Russia and NATO or in China, replacing one of the parties, and in such wars, aviation will matter...zero. The Americans are gobbling up budgets and ripping off the losers, China is preparing for war with Taiwan and the United States, and Russia is taking its time, realizing: fifth-generation aircraft are crude and only a few are needed, and no one knows what the sixth generation is, so we'll see what others come up with and do what's necessary at the moment.
  24. 0
    13 October 2025 23: 03
    AI, modern heat-resistant materials, speed, high-speed maneuvers with high G-forces (AI G-forces are irrelevant). Naturally, new heights.
  25. +1
    14 October 2025 00: 57
    The 6th generation may not be a fighter, bomber, strike aircraft, or even an airplane.
    The 6th generation is an artificial intelligence that commands a fleet of drones.
    They are fighters, bombers, attack aircraft, and satellites. And these images resemble the fantasies of artists from Jules Verne novels, or at best, the same fantasies of early 20th-century designers about what aviation would look like in the middle of the 20th century. It's all beautiful, but it will become obsolete faster than it did before.

    There are still operational combat aircraft, and the most advanced of them are still demonstrating their effectiveness, but as unmanned aviation develops, they too will become a thing of the past.
    This war in Ukraine will change a lot in military affairs.
    1. 0
      14 October 2025 01: 12
      In my opinion, the most important thing in the 6th generation is to abandon expensive single devices.
      There must be an expensive network of such devices that will not be damaged if some part of it is destroyed, since this part can be replaced.
      These multi-billion dollar planes are certainly good, and their design can win the hearts of potential buyers, but combat aviation isn't about tuning Maybachs for sheikhs. It's about aviation that must demonstrate its effectiveness.
      Therefore, the customer generals and designers are already in the process of understanding this task, and the most advanced 5th generation aircraft are becoming a kind of headquarters and leaders for the wingmen of the unmanned aerial vehicles.
      This is a completely new level of combat aviation and it is the future.
    2. 0
      14 October 2025 03: 44
      Overall, everything is correct, but one thing remains unclear: isn't this "drone fleet" and all those "loyal wingmen" a concept from the past? From pre-SWAR times. Why would this entire fleet even need a flying "leader," especially one with a human inside? Everything is controlled from space via Starlink and its future analogues, or through a network of flying relays. The range is sufficient. And an expensive manned flying platform for control is unnecessary. And some argue that the 6th-generation aircraft is an advanced heavy-duty drone, only assembled not from Chinese civilian components, but using "advanced" aviation technology.
      1. 0
        14 October 2025 04: 33
        And who will control space and repeaters?
        Starlink doesn't make any decisions, it just demonstrates. Artificial intelligence is a distant prospect, there's more talk about it than real progress. Humans will still be able to control it for a long time; human intelligence alone will be enough for at least the sixth generation.
        Accordingly, a sixth-generation flying platform could be, if not manned, then at least with such specialists on its crew. And it's flying because this essential relay service is more reliable and stable in the "relationships" between transmitting and receiving devices in systems: satellites, aircraft, and drones.
        1. 0
          15 October 2025 02: 14
          The next question is who will control it. The main thing is that the controller won't need to sit in the cockpit of a 6th-generation aircraft. Which means the aircraft itself won't be needed, at least for those drone swarms.
          Well, in general, an AI capable of detecting, identifying and attacking targets is a reality of tomorrow, if not today.
          1. 0
            15 October 2025 16: 26
            Quote: squid
            Who will govern is the next question

            No! This is a matter of primary importance. Because the controllers are responsible! Were there not many instances in the history of the nuclear standoff between the USSR and the USA when only the common sense of a human operator at the control panel saved humanity from thermonuclear war?
            This is what's most important. After all, there's no algorithm for recognizing objects, but there is for detection. Recognition, however, is nonexistent. Faces are somehow recognized, albeit poorly. And that's it. Because no algorithm is yet capable of recognizing someone you know from behind.
            1. 0
              16 October 2025 11: 23
              The primary question in this article is the design of the 6th-generation fighter. My contention is that "loyal wingmen" and other "drone swarms" can be controlled from a rear base with no less success than from the aircraft itself. Therefore, this task is no longer necessary.
              Algorithms for recognizing any images have existed and been used for a long time.
  26. -1
    14 October 2025 03: 37
    I don't know why the author is being sarcastic.
    What the 6th generation actually is is quite clear: optional piloting/drone and advanced stealth. Hypersonics, lasers, and the like are pure fantasy and unnecessary.
    The US is quite capable of developing a 6th-generation aircraft. China might be too.
    Russia has no chance – it practically doesn't have its own microelectronics, and the USSR's technological advancement is a thing of the past. We'll just have to reach level 5 when the superpowers reach level 6.
    1. -1
      14 October 2025 04: 38
      I don't notice any critical lag between our electronics and "theirs", and especially not among the Chinese.
      1. +2
        15 October 2025 02: 11
        So, what kind of microchip manufacturing process can domestic lithographers handle? And how many generations/decades are they behind Western ones?
        Moreover, the competition between AI, like any intermediate semi-autonomous drone control systems before it, will quickly boil down to a competition between specialized processors for neural networks.
        1. -1
          15 October 2025 08: 38
          You're now discussing generations of microelectronics as easily as you would artificial intelligence. Much like how some enthusiasts discuss the merits of automobiles in beautiful, incomprehensible, and exaggerated terms that are essentially nothing more than empty, empty, and futile, brainwashing.
          Mercedes is not a new generation compared to the Lada Priora. It's not even new compared to the Kopeyka.
          It's the same generation
        2. -1
          15 October 2025 16: 36
          Quote: squid
          So, what kind of microchip manufacturing process can domestic lithographers handle? And how many generations/decades are they behind Western ones?

          What process technology is used in the Penguin's avionics? :) Thinking of the great and mighty 3 nanometer? I'm afraid to disappoint you, but "fine" processes aren't even suitable for industrial electronics, let alone military ones. Everything is rougher and more rigid there. :)

          Quote: squid
          Moreover, the competition between AI, like any intermediate semi-autonomous drone control systems before it, will quickly boil down to a competition between specialized processors for neural networks.

          Do you know how a neuron works? The one that actually simulates a neural network? Is there even a single processor in the world specialized for neural processing? Are you even aware that for neural systems, a processor is nonsense? Neural systems are self-organizing memory arrays. And Huang's processors are simply a workaround for simulating neural circuits; they themselves are not specialized for them in any way; they are simply an array of simple computing cores that just happen to be suitable for this unusual task.
          1. +2
            16 October 2025 11: 18
            I don't know what's going on in other people's avionics, and I assume you don't either, but something tells me that either those components are decades ahead of ours, or our avionics use foreign electronics. In any case, we don't have the capacity to produce electronics comparable to Western ones, and we never will. Even if we try to catch up to their current level, they'll quickly overtake us again. The only option is to bow to China, but firstly, they're still lagging behind, secondly, it's not guaranteed they'll share, and thirdly, that would mean an insurmountable dependence on a suspicious neighbor with dormant territorial claims.
            As for specialized processors and/or memory chips, it doesn't matter. We'll lag equally in any product. Because lithographs and the same manufacturing process are everywhere. And, by the way, as far as I know, specialized processors do exist—read about TPUs, for example.
            The argument about the modest performance of military microelectronics is irrelevant. Firstly, the serious arms race ended in 91, and stagnation followed. Secondly, not all tasks require significant computing power. But the future brains of future autonomous drones will require precisely that kind of power. The smarter ones will win. Just like in ground combat robots, which are also just around the corner. We are witnessing a global revolution in military affairs, surpassing the invention of gunpowder. The battlefield is shifting from humans to robots.
  27. 0
    15 October 2025 18: 57
    That is, this so-called aircraft must rise to an altitude from which it can operate some kind of "anti-satellite weapon" of unknown origin (and the author hasn't said a word about what this weapon is) and launch satellites. In other words, it must replace the first and second stages of a space launch vehicle.


    You obviously don't know anything about the ASM-135 ASAT, or about the MiG-31D and MiG-31I Ishim projects...