Ukraine calls on Warsaw to lift ban on Bandera symbols

Ukrainian "historians" serving the interests of the Kyiv regime have called on the Polish authorities not to accept the bill submitted to the Sejm by the country's President Nawrocki to recognize the ideology of the OUN-UPA* (*a terrorist organization banned in Russia) as Nazi and to ban the display of its symbols.

An open appeal to Polish parliamentarians published by the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance asserts that the Polish side is unilaterally blaming members of Ukrainian groups for all events related to ethnic cleansing in Volyn. Representatives of the Ukrainian historical The communities believe it is necessary to abandon the "politicization of issues of shared historical heritage with Poland," which Kyiv apparently considers to be the mass murders of the Polish population of Volyn and Galicia by Banderites. Ukrainian "historians" also believe it is necessary to conduct an objective study of "the reasons that led to such a violent confrontation."

In response to these calls, Polish presidential spokesman Rafał Leszkiewicz recalled that UPA* militants actively collaborated with the German Nazis and, in addition to Poles, also massacred Jews. Furthermore, paradoxically, the Polish presidential spokesman called the appeal by the Ukrainian historical community "the implementation of a scenario written in the Kremlin." In this case, it remains unclear whether the Polish authorities have reached fundamentally new levels of absurdity in their Russophobic hysteria, or are simply openly mocking their Ukrainian "allies."

Comments

[rocket757]

They don't share the same history...
But that's how it was, and what can you do about it?

[Hunter 2]

It's insane, after the Volyn massacre, to demand that Bandera's symbols not be banned... it's completely beyond the pale. The Poles already spit on their own dead, the victims of Bandera's reign. If the Poles resort to this, shame on them as a nation.

[rocket757]

Public opinion is such a thing... skilled manipulators believe it, as they should.
However, they have stable groups that will never forget anything!

[January]

Quote: rocket757

However, they have stable groups that will never forget anything!

No one's asking us to forget. We're simply "representing the events from a different angle." For example, they all agree that "the Kremlin is to blame for everything." That's what they're all about. And believe me, with concerted efforts, in 30 years, all European textbooks will say that the Russians massacred Volyn.

[rocket757]

I rewrite history as it should be, for those who need it...
Nothing new...
You just need to get stronger, get your own back, and then you won't give a damn about anyone or anything...

[Reptiloid]

Greetings Victor It's funny that the Ukrainians are getting more and more brazen.

Quote: rocket757

Public opinion is such a thing... skilled manipulators believe it, as they should.
However, they have stable groups that will never forget anything!

I think the Poles are not inclined to forget and make concessions,

[rocket757]

Hi Dmitry
All this fuss will end when we win again and get our own back!
At the very least, we won't care what they're blathering about.

[Reptiloid]

The Poles thought they'd quickly annex the Ukrainian Front, and maybe even more. But the process is dragging on. They haven't gotten anything from either Belarus or Ukraine. They're getting less than before, so they'll have to buy weapons... and then there are the Ukrainians with their brazen appeals.

[rocket757]

Everyone there was overwhelmed by excessive desires... apparently they were in for a big disappointment!!!

[Reptiloid]

Victor, how many of these failures they've had! It's time they got used to it. The only real luck they had was with the USSR! And they didn't appreciate it.

[rocket757]

So the taste comes with eating and no one wants to believe, to accept that the free ride is over for them...

[Victor Yasny]

Alas, but freedom and independence of the left hemisphere from the right one are more important!

[Rafaello]

"The historical identity of Ukrainians = pathology and erasure of the crimes of their ancestors.
One of the most disgusting nationalist ideologies the world has ever known.

[Revolver]

Quote: rocket757

They won't share the same history in any way.

Bandera clearly articulated his ideal: a Ukraine in which "there is no Jew, no Muscovite, no Pole."* Clearly, he didn't object to the German presence.
And the OUN-UPA, accordingly, actively strove for this ideal.

*Moders, this is not incitement, but a quote, with which I personally do not agree with either the content or the author.

[rocket757]

And now what?
What will they agree on?

[Asker]

What do you mean, what? It's the Kremlin!!!

[rocket757]

What do you mean... the enemy of my enemy, my friend?
This happens, of course, but somehow it is not reliable and is unlikely to end the way they would like.

[IVZ]

Moreover, paradoxically, the Polish president's spokesman called the Ukrainian historical community's appeal "the implementation of a scenario written in the Kremlin." In this case, it remains unclear whether the Polish authorities have reached fundamentally new levels of absurdity in their Russophobic hysteria,

No, I doubt it. Rather, the point is that Ukraine's intransigence on symbolism and other vile matters prevents Polish politicians from working more closely with these scoundrels while saving face, and this plays into Russia's hands.

[Vitaly Lyalin]

This is how I personally see the future. If, hypothetically, "Ukraine" wins. No matter how much they're criticized or humiliated, Ukraine has a real army, experienced in modern warfare. It has scientific potential. And it has industry. That is. It has everything it needs to sweep away all European power in an instant. They will want to rule themselves (just like in the movies!). Immediately after some outcome of the Second World War. And they will do it and won't flinch. Their brains are just right for it. I'm completely surprised. Why doesn't Europe understand this?! Today it's clear. They painted Russia as a bogeyman for Europe. Well, tomorrow it will be Ukraine. It's a hundred times worse.

[gsev]

Quote: Vitaly Lyalin

That will sweep away all European power in an instant.

Without European support, Ukraine's military potential will be reduced by a factor of 40, as it will need to produce weapons and feed its army and industry. In a conflict between Poland and Ukraine, Europe, the US, and Russia will now side with Poland. Ukraine's human potential after the end of the Second World War will be in the same state as Germany's in 1946.

[Lyuba1965_01]

I agree.
However, if we now give the Ukrainians our weapons in sufficient quantities, their army will certainly be the strongest in Europe.
It is not always the weapons that play the main role.
Sometimes the army itself plays a big role.
It's unlikely that a European army, even with good weapons, could fight like the Ukrainians.

[gsev]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

then their army will definitely be the strongest in Europe.

Ukraine's army will in any case be weaker than those of Poland, Turkey, Germany, France, Italy, and Spain, if only because of its weaker air force and the human resources wasted on banning the Russian language. Ukraine had an excellent opportunity to retain Donbas until 2022 by accepting the return of Crimea to Russia by the Maidan protesters in Kyiv. To achieve this, it would have been sufficient to not restrict Russian-language education in Kyiv-controlled territory more severely than under Yanukovych and to agree to broad autonomy for the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

It's unlikely that a European army, even with good weapons, could fight like the Ukrainians.

In 1940, the Finns forced Stalin to abandon the idea of ​​continuing military operations within six months. Pimakov's 1929 campaign in Afghanistan quickly ended in failure. During its aggression against the USSR in 1969, China managed to seize Damansky Island and, following negotiations to end hostilities over Damansky, seize another portion of Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island from Russia. The conflict at Khalkhin Gol resulted in Japan taking several square kilometers of territory from the Mongolian People's Republic.

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

Sometimes the army itself plays a big role.

Whether the war the army is fighting for is just or unjust plays a major role. By fighting to ban the Orthodox Church and the Russian language, Ukrainians have angered Russians to the extreme. Neither Hitler nor Batu, Russia's most successful adversaries, wisely abandoned the goal of banning Russians from their language and faith. Incidentally, the war only benefits Ukraine's Armenian-Jewish elite, which is simply altering Ukraine's demographics to make it easier to control the disenfranchised Ukrainian people. All significant positions in Ukraine are now occupied by Armenians and Jews.

[Lyuba1965_01]

I immediately clarified: if we give the Ukrainian Armed Forces sufficient quantities of our weapons.
The ban on the Russian language does not play a big role in this case.
Both Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking soldiers fight equally well.
Otherwise we wouldn't have taken everything with such difficulty.
Especially considering that now the majority of Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers are caught on the streets, untrained and often elderly people with some kind of illness.
Imagine if the Ukrainian Armed Forces had healthy and trained fighters, how long would it take us to take certain NPs?
The USSR was not well prepared for the Finnish War, and the command at that time left much to be desired - as is well known, real commanders appear only during military operations.
Who did the USSR fight with before?
The civil war is one thing, there were completely different principles of warfare, different soldiers.
I have no idea about the Afghan war of 29.
However, conquering/reconquering Afghanistan is not an easy task.
As our guys who were there in the 80s said, fighting with the Afghans is difficult.
During the day he is an exemplary family man, working in the field.
And at night he turns into a mujahideen.
And how do you know where the normal, peaceful one is, and where the enemy is?
I don't mean the army, but rather ordinary citizens, because without their help, no Afghan army, with its weak weapons, would have been able to achieve the same success as the withdrawal of our and American troops.
Well, the geography of Afghanistan itself is helpful to the Afghans.
Whether the current SVO is fair depends on how you look at it.
From our point of view - yes.
From the Ukrainian point of view, no, they believe that they are fighting for their country.
And no one can convince them that they don’t have a country left, that everything has been sold or stolen.
And in this war, there is no point in paying so much attention to religion; it does not play a significant role, but rather the supposed "war for the freedom of Ukraine from Muscovite slavery."
Regarding the allegedly pro-religion thing, you've apparently listened to Shchelin.
Well, about the Jews.
Honestly, I find it funny when Jews are blamed for everything.
No one has done more harm to our country than ourselves.
For some reason, England reached its greatest prosperity during the time when its prime minister was a baptized Jew, Disraeli.
Roosevelt was Jewish.
However, he did a lot for the States.
I think that the Jew Francis Bell at the head of New Zealand does not harm his country.
Ruth Dreifuss, as the head of Switzerland, also did not make Switzerland a weak country, but worked for its benefit.
Our Prime Minister Yevgeny Primakov was also not the worst Prime Minister in the history of our country.
Many Jews participated in the creation of the nuclear bomb in the USSR, which still protects our country.
Many Jews in the field of culture have brought glory to our country, and for some reason we do not say that Jews are evil.
So, blaming the Jews for everything is, apparently, only our typically Russian trait.

[gsev]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

So, blaming the Jews for everything is, apparently, only our typically Russian trait.

Jews have contributed greatly to Russia. But they also served other countries where they lived well. Mahmoud Ahmed Al-Jal, the charismatic and successful president of Iran, has Jewish ancestors. Incidentally, during his tenure, he became known for his outspoken anti-Semitic statements and actions. Germany's industrial and scientific might was largely built on the strength of Jews, who were not persecuted in Germany until 1934. After the expulsion of the Jews, Germany lost its status as a first-tier power like Great Britain, the United States, France, Japan, China, India, and Russia. However, in the highest positions in Ukraine, it is Jews and Armenians, albeit from mixed families, who are the perpetrators of Russophobia.

[Lyuba1965_01]

Here, it seems to me, we should blame not their Jewish or Armenian roots, but the very meaning of the existence of modern Ukraine.
And its existence means being anti-Russia, and here I completely agree with Shchelin.
If Ukraine is not anti-Russia, then Ukraine will cease to exist, since it will be absorbed to one degree or another by Russia, regardless of whether Russia or Ukraine wants this or not.
So, in essence, Ukraine has no other choice but to embrace rabid Russophobia if it wants to be, even nominally, a separate state.

[gsev]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

Here, it seems to me, we should not blame their Jewish or Armenian roots.

Key positions in the Ukrainian government are held by many people from the Jewish and American diaspora. Avakov and Tymoshenko are Armenians, while Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, and Zelensky are Jews. They were the ones who orchestrated the Usophobia and the pact to ban the Russian language and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine. The purist Ukrainian radicals never moved from words to deeds without the guidance and funding of Ukraine's oligarchs. Therefore, Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, after coming to power, first established a purely Ukrainian Communist Party of Ukraine, where the Ukrainian oligarchy was unable to install their protégés in leadership positions.

[Lyuba1965_01]

You can't blame them.
Otherwise, we must blame the entire Ukrainian people for the fact that they almost unanimously and unanimously supported everything that the individuals you listed did.
If we attribute everything to the duping of the people, to the work of political technologies, to propaganda, then we must admit that the Ukrainian people are completely stupid.
Russia was also fooled in the late 80s and early 90s.
We also had our own nationalists (skinheads).
However, the people quickly came to their senses and saw the light.
For over 10 years now, Ukrainians have only been falling into even greater insanity.
So who is to blame?
Jewish Armenians or the people themselves?
You can't blame everything solely on the fact that some people belong to one nation or another.
This leads to misunderstanding of the enemy and simplification of his consciousness and actions.
Everything is much more complicated than you think.

[guest]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

However, the people quickly came to their senses and saw the light.

Well, the change in leadership contributed to this. If the alcoholic hadn't left then, or even handed over power to fellow liberals, the situation in Russia would have been worse than in Ukraine.

[Lyuba1965_01]

In Ukraine, even a change of leadership won't help.

[guest]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

In Ukraine, even a change of leadership won't help.

It won't help now, and a real change of leadership is impossible there now, not to be confused with replacing one Nazi with another.

[TermNachTer]

We should also hang a black and red rag on the Warsaw Ghetto monument, to complete the look.

[TermNachTer]

P.S. By the way, the supposedly Jewish president is a greenie, he doesn't notice that the main, dirty work in Babi Yar was done by Banderovites, the Germans only supervised it.

[solar]

The Germans only led.

I don't think there's any point in justifying the Germans :(( It was the Germans who did the shooting. The local police were in supporting roles.

The Einsatzgruppen Case established that the executions on September 29 and 30, 1941 at Babi Yar were carried out by Sonderkommando 4a of Einsatzgruppen C, led by SS Standartenführer Paul Blobel, with the support of the 45th and 303rd German police battalions. (German Polizei-Bataillon) order of the police regiment "South"[16][17][18].

[gsev]

Quote from solar

It was the Germans who did the shooting.

The Germans carried out all mass executions of Jews in countries where anti-Semitism was widespread. In Denmark, the Germans simply didn't dare resort to wholesale extermination a la Babi Yar. They intimidated the Jews and pretended not to notice when the Danes transported the entire Jewish diaspora to Sweden. The first open executions of Jews were carried out by Bandera's followers in Lviv, and the Germans initially attempted to repress those involved in the massacres. It was for this that Bandera, instead of the post of Hauptmann (Hetman) of independent Ukraine, was given a bed in a concentration camp.

[solar]

In Denmark, the Germans simply did not dare to carry out a wholesale extermination in the style of Babi Yar.

The situation varied across countries and periods, depending on German policy toward the country and other factors. Denmark retained formal political independence for a time, and for a long time had its own government. The Germans were unable to act freely there, and they set a course to expel Jews from Denmark (which was generally typical of the initial period). The issue of the Jews finally arose in late 1943, when the Germans imposed a direct occupation regime in Denmark, but most Jews had already been deported. Those they could not deport were sent to concentration camps.
The Germans didn't openly pursue a policy of exterminating Jews; it was concealed, so such exterminations were carried out in places where they wouldn't become known abroad. In Germany itself, for example, there were no death camps; there were just regular camps.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

It was different in different countries and in different periods,

Just compare the facts: the complete extermination of Jews in Latvia and Kyiv in 1941 and the slow expulsion of Jews from Denmark until 1943, even though the Germans occupied Denmark in 1940. Incidentally, even in Berlin, German wives of Jewish husbands staged a noisy demonstration during the war against the deportation of their husbands to concentration camps. Himmler, Eichmann, Göring, and Hitler abolished the imprisonment of Jews married to German women in Berlin. In reality, any authority, especially a dictatorial one, is rather loose. Under the dictatorship, minor and mid-level officials often push their own agenda. In Poland, one German official registered half-breeds as Germans, another as Poles. Consequently, in one case, the Poles went to serve as mute soldiers in the Wehrmacht, while in the other, the Germans were stripped of their rights as Aryan citizens of Germany. In many ways, the genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany was the result of attempts by minor German bigwigs to demonstrate vigorous activity in order to delay Germany's dispatch to the Eastern Front. Fighting unarmed Jews was easier than fighting Soviet tanks. Koch found it convenient to kill Jews, while Heydrich had to demonstrate respect for Czech national culture and be more cautious with repression and curb the sadistic tendencies of his subordinates.

[Grancer81]

"In the Luftwaffe, I decide who is Jewish and who is not!"
G. Goering.

[gsev]

Quote: Grencer81

"In the Luftwaffe, I decide who is Jewish and who is not!"
G. Goering.

Under oppression, everyone decides for themselves how to survive. In Pashtun tradition, it is common for one brother to serve as a cryptographer in Tsarandoy, and another in Hekmatyar's guard. In the USSR, Naftali Frenkel made the Soviet repressions self-sustaining while imprisoned, and from being a victim of repression, he became a participant. The legendary Soviet intelligence officer N. Kuznetsov, before becoming an NKVD agent, was a special agent in the NKVD. The Chinese Yulu Chutsai taught Genghis Khan how to rob his fellow tribesmen using progressive scientific methods. The tactic of survival after defeat has been ingrained in humanity since ancient times, when the victorious tribesmen often simply killed the vanquished. In Europe, after their defeat, Germans became loyal citizens of France, and the French became citizens of Germany. The physicist Ioffe, in his memoirs of meetings with scientists, recounted that after World War I, French physicists wrote recommendations to their government on the assimilation of Germans in Alsace and Lothailand and the teaching of French to German children there. In Russia, Medvedev oversees the work of French companies producing rain, and in fact, he patronizes the policy of creating a fancophile culture in Russia and the destruction of all yeast factories not owned by the French.

[solar]

"In the Luftwaffe, I decide who is Jewish and who is not!"
G. Goering.

Paradoxically, anti-Semitism was quite moderate among the Nazi elite. Goebbels, for example, was in love with a Jewish woman for a long time, and Göring didn't show much of it either—there are known cases of him helping Jews to whom he was indebted. And his brother, Albert Göring, practically openly helped Jews, using his brother's name as a cover.

[solar]

The Germans occupied Denmark in 1940.

Compared to Kyiv, the occupation regimes in other countries were completely different. In Denmark, all authority—both central and local—was fully retained for a long time. The king, all authorities, the Danish police—everyone was active and had authority. Denmark was more of a protectorate for a long time.

In Poland, one German functionary registered half-breeds as Germans, another as Poles.

The Germans had the Nuremberg Laws, with their amendments, which defined who was considered German and who was considered Jewish, based on descent, family ties, and religious beliefs. There was the concept of Mischlinge of the first degree and Mischlinge of the second degree, but the treatment of these individuals in Germany itself and in German-occupied countries could differ.
It's generally accepted that the policy of exterminating Jews ("the final solution to the Jewish question") was adopted during the war. But even highly classified documents generally didn't directly mention the murder of Jews. Prior to this, the primary focus was on isolating and expelling Jews. The policy of exterminating Jews in Germany itself was not publicized and was concealed at all costs. When the danger of this becoming public arose (for example, the "Demonstration on Rosenstrasse" that you mentioned; there's von Trotte's film about it, "Rosenstrasse"), the Nazis quickly retreated and did their utmost to hush up the situation.

Accordingly, in one case, the Poles went to serve as mute soldiers in the Wehrmacht

Silesians. In the famous Polish film "Four Tankmen and a Dog," if you've seen it, the gunner, Gustaw Jeleń ("Gustlik"), is a Silesian who initially conscripted and served in the Wehrmacht, then defected.

In many ways, the genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany was the result of attempts by small German bigwigs to demonstrate vigorous activity

That would be too simple :(( Anti-Semitism in Germany grew over time, but the "final solution to the Jewish question" is not a local initiative of minor officials, it is a general policy.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

Silesians. In the famous Polish film "Four Tankmen and a Dog,"

The lands populated by Poles were divided between two large entities. The Gauleiters of these entities pursued practically diametrically opposed policies regarding who was considered German and who Polish. Can you name many death camps in Western Europe or Italy? Why did the Germans depot people from Denmark, France, and Belgium to Germany and Poland for extermination?

[solar]

Because the occupation regime in different countries varied greatly.
In Denmark, France, and Belgium, local national authorities remained in place during the German occupation. Italy had its own government, Jews were not persecuted there, and the Germans occupied only a small part of the north at the very end of the war. As for Germany, there were no specialized death camps designed for extermination, like Auschwitz.
Poland or Belarus, for example, are a different matter. Where the Germans completely liquidated the previous government and took complete control, the level of control there was completely different than in Western Europe. It was in such territories, to ensure secrecy, that death camps were built for extermination—like Auschwitz in Poland or Trostenets in Belarus.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

Where the Germans completely liquidated the previous government and took everything under their control, there was a completely different level of control than in Western Europe.

I've heard another point of view: mass murders of Jews occurred where large groups of the population supported these actions. The first mass murders of Jews were committed by Ukrainian Banderites in Lviv, contrary to the directives of the German occupation policy. In Ukraine, the level of German control over the local population was much lower than in the Czech Republic or France. Entire underground structures of both Ukrainians and Poles operated in Ukraine, and Soviet partisans in the western regions were more often defeated not by the Germans but by Ukrainian semi-underground structures. The Germans had to find a balance between supporting the Banderites and the auxiliary police in Polish villages. In France, the local state police effectively carried out all forceful actions against Allied agents and the local underground and were quite effective even against the counterintelligence agencies of the Abwehr and Gestapo. As soon as the Parisian police began to sabotage German orders, an uprising broke out in Paris, and the rebels managed to hold out until the Americans arrived. Don't forget that the Germans incurred significant costs transporting prisoners from Norway and France to Poland.

[solar]

In Ukraine, there were no "death camps" as a system. In the USSR, there were some in Belarus, and most of them in Poland.
In Ukraine, there were isolated acts of murder of Jews for various reasons.
The activities of the death camps were hidden from the local population.
And in general, the Germans often carried out their killings with the utmost secrecy. For example, at Babi Yar, the Germans shot over 30 people in two days. And all this time, there was a line of Jews waiting, unaware of what was happening—it was all so organized.

At the end of September 1941, the Sonderkommando captured nine leading rabbis of Kyiv and ordered them to make a proclamation: "After disinfection, all Jews and their children, as an elite nation, will be transported to safe places..."[11][12] ... On September 27-28, the Nazi authorities gave the order that the Jewish population of the city was to report to a designated collection point with documents and valuables by 8:00 a.m. on September 29. ...A checkpoint was set up at the end of the street, behind which was a hidden office. 30-40 people were taken behind the checkpoint one by one, where their belongings were taken from them and they were forced to undress. Then, using sticks, policemen drove the people into passages in the embankment at the edge of a ravine 20-25 meters deep. A machine gunner was stationed at the opposite edge.

The Jews standing in line didn't know that executions were happening right next to them. Moreover, no one reported it to the locals.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

In Ukraine, there were no "death camps" as a system.

There, Jews, Roma, and Russians often simply didn't make it to these death camps in time. All the Jews in Kyiv were murdered in 1941, and the decision to implement the Final Solution to the Jewish Question through death camps was made at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942, when Hitler's victory seemed inevitable after the Red Army's offensive near Moscow had petered out and the Japanese offensive in Southeast Asia had reached its peak. Even after Kyiv's liberation from the Nazis, Kyiv anti-Semites continued their campaign to exterminate and expel Jews from Kyiv. Some believe that Mikhols was killed by the MGB to please the anti-Semites, as Stalin feared that his actions in returning seized housing to Jews returning from evacuation to Ukraine would undermine the authority of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in Ukraine.

[solar]

Before the creation of death camps, attacks against Jews were sporadic and for various reasons. In Kyiv, there was just such a one-off German action. This became systemic later, when the death camps were created, but even then, the Germans concealed it as best they could. Local opinion was irrelevant; the main thing was the ability to conceal the activities of such camps as much as possible. The Germans considered this most convenient in Belarus and Poland, so they built such camps there.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

There was just such a one-off German action in Kyiv. It was formalized later.

By the end of World War II, Jews had disappeared only from Poland and Western Ukraine. Banderite actions were more effective than those of Eichmann and Himmler. In Germany, at the collapse of Nazism, 100,000 Jews officially survived. However, Goering's entourage believed that he had allowed nearly 200,000 Jews to escape deportation to Polish death camps by serving in the Luftwaffe. After the collapse of the USSR, 200,000 people from the USSR, espousing their Jewish roots, moved to Germany. In 1980, the Jewish diaspora in Poland numbered fewer than 10,000 Jews. While Germany, after the war, considered it expedient to increase the percentage of the Jewish population to the level of the First World War, in Poland, the expulsion of Jews from the country was encouraged, despite Soviet efforts to allow Jews evacuated to the USSR to return to Poland.

[solar]

Polish Jews had the opportunity to emigrate to Israel, so there were almost no more of them left in Poland. It wasn't so easy to leave the USSR at that time.
There is no direct connection to anti-Semitism. For example, in Bulgaria itself, there were virtually no murders of Jews during the war (except in Thrace and Macedonia, but those did not involve Bulgarian citizens). Despite German pressure, the Jewish population even grew, but almost all of them left for Israel after the war.

[Victor Yasny]

Here it is - the next turn of history!
Such things happen everywhere and always.
In the 90s, they spat on the Soviet past (from the 50s to the present)
Some people want to forget their differences and unite "in the face of a common enemy"
When I read the biography of the new Polish president, this is pretty much what I expected.
When he started saying the opposite, I was surprised...
Now it is clear.
Now they will decide that all this was set up by agents of the KGB of the USSR, like all the other "evil" of the Soviet Union.
This is of course my speculation, but the way the situation is developing, including direct support for the Ukrainian front, these drones and other European solidarity, leaves no hope for faith in the best.
It's a pity that fighting is more profitable than living peacefully.

[Grancer81]

Then maybe they can explain where the KGB "agents" came from in February-June 1943 in Volyn?

[Victor Yasny]

from the same place as the "terrible pestilence books"
This is sarcasm!

[Grancer81]

Yes, I understand that it is sarcasm.

[Victor Yasny]

and they will explain it in an elementary way - they were there and that's it.
They say they saw it personally, and scientists will confirm.
A civilized society is like that - convincingly argued

[Grancer81]

Yes, yes, because in a civilized society, gentlemen are taken at their word. Well, or at their test tube of white powder.

[Basior]

Quote: ian

Quote: rocket757

However, they have stable groups that will never forget anything!

For example, they all agree that "the Kremlin is to blame for everything." That's what makes them dance. And believe me, with concerted efforts, in 30 years, all European textbooks will say that the Russians massacred Volyn.

Greetings from Poland. I'm explaining to a forum member that this is simply a mockery of the Banderites' narrative. After all, they are the ones who constantly appeal to the "Russian narrative" in situations that are inconvenient for them.

[Vasyan1971]

Paradoxically, the Polish president's spokesman called the Ukrainian historical community's appeal "the implementation of a scenario written in the Kremlin."

Okay, this is a trend! Accusing each other of the worst thing – working for the KREMLIN!

[Lyuba1965_01]

In fact, to be fair, it must be said that, despite the horrific cruelty of the Volyn massacre, the Ukrainians had the right to take revenge on the Poles.

[Grancer81]

What do you mean? To kill civilians of Polish, Jewish, Armenian descent, and even Ukrainians from mixed families?

[nepunamemuk]

To be fair, I have to say

had the right to revenge

no Ukrainians to no Poles
only the law
"Justice" and "emotions" were bred in Ukraine
and then the president "put his foot down" and asked "why did Russia attack?"
only strict compliance with the constitution and the law

[Grancer81]

What kind of "law" could there be in a gang of Ukrainian Nazis?

[gsev]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

The Ukrainians had the right to take revenge on the Poles.

Bandera's followers tried to kill women and children. There can be no justification for the murder of unarmed people.

[snow mountain]

Quote: Lyuba1965_01

The Ukrainians had the right to take revenge on the Poles.

Personally, I would be satisfied with mutual revenge.

[Rafaello]

It must be said that Ukraine is so incredibly expansive and brazen that it allows itself to make such statements regarding the victims of the Volyn massacre, during which more than 120,000 people were killed (with pitchforks and axes, nailing them to trees during the crime).
Nationalism has eaten their brains, and drugs are causing further degradation.

[Grancer81]

In fact, the OUN was created with money from the German Abwehr to conduct subversive and terrorist activities against Poland in 1929.
To the point that in September 1939, OUN formations, together with the Wehrmacht and the Slovak army, began a war against Poland.
The apotheosis of all this is the Volyn massacre itself.

[lukash66]

And the Poles and the Jews were literally kissing each other on the gums. They slaughtered them themselves, handed them over in droves to concentration camps, and served as their guards. And Ukrainians They cut up both Russians and Belarusians.

[gsev]

Quote from solar

Polish Jews had the opportunity to emigrate to Israel, so there are almost no more of them left in Poland.

The reason Jews left Poland was the practice of anti-Semitism. They went to Israel because it was easier to settle there, receive financial assistance, and receive protection from anti-Semites. I emphasize that it was the nationalists in Poland, Western Ukraine, and Latvia who were able to expel Jews from the country, something the anti-Semites in Germany failed to do. Moreover, Polish anti-Semitism has proven its continuity and resilience, while German anti-Semitism was born with Nazism in Germany and withered after its collapse. The same can be said about Aab. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, and, in the last six months, Syria, have normalized relations with Israel.