Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles.

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Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles.


New national project


Methodical strikes by Ukrainians drones The impact on Russian oil refining is quite noticeable – gasoline sales are rationed in some regions, and fuel shortages are observed in Crimea and Primorye. However, there are no problems with diesel fuel. The structure of oil refining and consumption in Russia is such that diesel fuel remains in surplus, and they even manage to export it to this day. Diesel fuel is also the main fuel for special operations, so all talk of the enemy striking military infrastructure is completely unfounded. At the front tanks and the armored personnel carriers have enough fuel.



Currently, the protection of domestic oil refineries is built in two main directions: EW and the physical destruction of objects in the sky. Cellular communications are already being jammed across almost all of Russia, navigation signal spoofing systems are in operation in a number of areas, and the army is engaged in the destruction of drones. DefenseJudging by what is observed at oil refineries and airports, this is not enough. The forecasts are also not encouraging. Ukrainian industry is experiencing a slowdown in the production of long-haul aircraft. drones It's definitely not slowing down, although the growth dynamics are clearly being adjusted by Russian rockets and UAV.

In the near future, we can expect a gradual increase in the number of attack UAVs sent by the enemy to target targets. This will allow them to overwhelm air defenses and overcome the passive defenses of factories. The range of drones will also increase. The Ural Mountains currently represent an insurmountable obstacle for light UAVs. For example, the An-2 can only fly over the mountains in certain places due to insufficient thrust. But the Urals will not be an indefinite barrier to drones from the west. If measures are not taken, the chemical complex of the greater Tyumen and Omsk regions could be at risk. Tobolsk, as a reminder, is home to a large Sibur industrial cluster, the value of which far exceeds any fuel plant. And Omsk is home to Russia's largest oil refinery, and that says it all.

Apparently, the conflict with Ukraine is dragging on, likely for years to come. And it would be a good thing if it were only with Ukraine. This means the time has come for strategic decisions regarding domestic oil refining. This is a challenging task and very much resembles a new national project.


There's a type of engineering structure called a mini refinery. These plants are typically divided into two classes: those with a capacity of up to 20 tons per year and those with a capacity of up to 100 tons. To be fair, the government doesn't particularly encourage such construction—there are only 80 mini refineries in the country, which collectively produce about 11,5 million tons. The statistical arithmetic doesn't quite match the classification—80 mini refineries can't produce that much oil, but apparently some of them have increased their capacity beyond 100 tons.

The Russian oil refining industry includes 32 large refineries, producing approximately 260-270 million tons of fuel annually. Precise figures are hard to come by—they've long been classified. Naturally, the enemy is choosing precisely these large targets—nothing surprising here. If the threat is treated as more than a momentary event, then now is the time to encourage the deployment of a network of small-scale refineries in eastern Russia. The program is complex and expensive, but it will significantly simplify defenses and make the country's refineries much less accessible. This is very similar to the evacuation of Soviet industry to the Urals in the first months of the war. Subsequently, these new facilities became a powerful driver of development on the eastern borders.

Russia is currently facing the pressing issue of settling and developing Siberia and the Far East. Why not use a network of hundreds of mini refineries to spur regional development? Even before the North-Eastern Front, they wanted to build a city with a population of over a million in Eastern Siberia. Building a mini refinery doesn't seem like a fundamental necessity. For example, here are the requirements for building a modern mini refinery:

“For a mini-plant with a capacity of 100 thousand tons/year, a tank farm of 15000 m3 (consists of vertical tanks), a loading platform for 8 trucks and a railway overpass for 10 cars, with auxiliary infrastructure (fire extinguishing system, treatment facilities, boiler room, flare, etc.), a minimum plot size of 9,0 hectares is required, provided that it is of regular shape (300 * 300 or 200 * 450) and the railway dead-end runs along one of the short sides along the edge of the plot."

To guarantee the avoidance of the fuel losses currently associated with the Central Military District, 100–200 such refineries would be needed in regions inaccessible to UAVs. Logic dictates that such a large fleet of oil refineries could become part of the country's mobilization resource. The tactic of targeting refineries has clearly proven its effectiveness, and it will certainly be in demand in future conflicts. Therefore, when the Central Military District ends in victory and the threat subsides, albeit temporarily, the refineries could be mothballed for difficult times and included in the mobilization program.

Active defense


Expanding the coverage area of ​​domestic oil refineries is only part of a larger defense program. A major reform of the country's air defense system seems logical. First, unity of command is required. There must be one person, even a civilian, responsible for protecting oil refineries and other infrastructure facilities. Above all, defense must be deeply layered. The first steps in this direction have already been taken. Military command posts in Russia's new territories are building their own anti-drone air defense systems. Mobile fire teams, integrated into the military command posts, are hybrid formations combining firepower with electronic warfare elements.

According to sources within the Ministry of Defense, their deployment covers key sectors: from the front line to a depth of 50-100 kilometers, where the risk of drone attacks is highest. Each unit consists of 10 to 20 fighters, organized into teams of 3-5, ensuring rapid rotation and minimizing fatigue during 24-hour duty. These groups' weapons are adapted to the specific threat: short-range anti-aircraft mounts, such as the portable ZU-23-2 or modernized versions, DShKM heavy machine guns with optical sights for night operations, and 12-gauge smoothbore shotguns with ammunition capable of engaging UAVs at a range of up to 500 meters.

Particular attention is paid to mobility: heavy equipment is mounted on pickup trucks and armored vehicles such as the Tigr or UAZ, enabling them to travel over rough terrain at speeds of up to 80 km/h. Furthermore, each unit is equipped with portable drone detectors based on millimeter-wave radars, capable of detecting targets as small as 0,5 meters at a distance of up to 5 km, and electronic warfare systems, such as the miniature Krasukha-4, which jam GPS and drone radio control channels. This equipment is no accident: an analysis of incidents over the past six months shows that 70% of successful UAV attacks occur in vulnerable rear areas, where traditional stationary air defense systems are ineffective due to limited coverage.

The realism of the situation underscores the need for decentralization: mobile teams fill the "blind spots" between large radars, increasing the interception probability from 40% to 75%, according to simulations at training centers. But such solutions are best suited for regions under martial law. Surely, DShK crews wouldn't be traveling across Bashkiria and Tatarstan? Therefore, each defense echelon requires its own dedicated assets.


So, they'll focus on the thesis that air defense units at the commandant's offices are initially cutting off some of the enemy's aircraft. Some, but far from all. The further drones penetrate into Russia, the more difficult they are to detect. Digitalization, or more precisely neural networks, must save the day. A highly accurate digital terrain map must be created at a certain depth along the entire front and the border with Ukraine. Everything is in place for this—the appropriate aircraft and laser scanners. Then, specially trained "electronic machines" will map the most likely routes of enemy drones.

Drone attacks on Russia have been underway for over two years, and detailed statistics on the logic and routes of their deployments have likely been collected. Combined with maps, this represents a valuable resource known as big data, which can be used to train artificial intelligence. There is hope that this is already being done, with air defense crews deployed along the most drone-hazardous routes. It's possible that a separate geostationary satellite constellation will need to be created in orbit to organize an even more effective defense. All of this is being implemented in conjunction with previously outlined measures—the deployment of Dvina-100M radars, acoustic sensors, mobile Pantsir-S1M air defense missile systems, and other means of detecting and engaging enemy drones.

Russia is currently developing a new branch of the armed forces—the Unmanned Systems Troops—and its personnel could also be deployed to protect targets deep within the country. This involves the deployment of reconnaissance drones around the clock, similar to what is currently being observed on the front lines. Taking turns or operating tethered to a power source, the UAVs, using multiple frequencies, monitor the surrounding area from above. This will be a significant addition to the techniques and methods described above.

Russian oil refining has proven quite vulnerable to relatively cheap weapons. The enemy is constantly searching for means and methods to inflict maximum damage on Russia's civilian economy. And if nothing is done, the Kyiv regime could soon cause a great deal of harm in our rear. Defense is difficult and expensive, but the forces and resources are available. Russia has coped with threats far greater than these, and it will prevail in this confrontation.
302 comments
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  1. + 10
    28 September 2025 05: 07
    It's still cheaper than burying, treating, and rebuilding! Unless, of course, the fifth column and bureaucrats screw things up?
    1. + 28
      28 September 2025 08: 17
      Quote: Aleksandral
      It's still cheaper than burying, treating, and rebuilding! Unless, of course, the fifth column and bureaucrats screw things up?

      Or maybe it would be cheaper to destroy all their energy sources?
      1. +8
        28 September 2025 13: 10
        That's exactly it, take out all their energy. You have to attack, especially when you have something to use. And we do!!!
        1. + 23
          28 September 2025 14: 25
          Quote: Glagol1
          That's exactly it, take out all their energy. You have to attack, especially when you have something to use. And we do!!!

          When the US went to war with Japan, the first thing they did was isolate anyone from that country (for the duration of the fighting). Out of sheer cleverness, or on someone's orders, they not only unleashed millions of people dissatisfied with their ruined lives, but also, by granting them citizenship, unleashed a herd of goats. A mere half-percent of saboteurs across the country would be enough to create chaos for everyone. No one is saying they should have driven people out, but they should have thought through compact areas of deployment (for the duration of the Second World War), with the ability to ensure control. People would have understood, but what's happening now is a tragedy for everyone. The creation of "local" air defenses, even with the potential presence of "spotters," is worthless. Currently, Russia lacks the "immunity of its special services" sufficient to catch all the "Trojan horses" infected by the very power of the thieving kingpin.
          We have only one hope left - in GOD.
          Russia is too deeply infected with the bacilli of the thieving bourgeoisie and the betrayals it has spawned. Unfortunately, many more victims await us, but there is no other way.
          1. 0
            30 September 2025 19: 13
            Quote: skeptic
            No one is saying that people should have been driven out, but they should have thought about compact areas for deployment (during the Second World War), with the ability to ensure control. People would have understood, but what's happening now is a tragedy for everyone.

            3 million Ukrainian citizens in camps at once? Do you have the technical capacity to house 10,000 in one day?
            And can they find work right here, within the camp?

            For those who don't understand, there were only 120,000 Japanese in the United States.
            Some of their camps had free entry and exit, while others were prohibited from leaving the camp at all.
            The bulk of them were used for agricultural work - free of charge.
            They only began to return confiscated funds to them in the 1970s, and the heirs are still trying to get their property back.
        2. AAK
          +9
          28 September 2025 18: 29
          Besides completely destroying the military economy, we still have at least 200,000 conscripts who, after three to four months of training, could easily be used for targeted anti-drone air defense of all sorts of important enterprises, transport routes and interchanges, and other vital facilities (using ZU-23x2, ZPU-2-ZPU-4, Korda, Utes, and other such missiles—no mention of anti-aircraft missiles, it's all as simple as that). They've taken the oath, so they should serve, not sit in barracks and mess around...
          1. Loh
            +3
            29 September 2025 16: 41
            We took the oath, which means we should serve, and not sit in barracks and mess around...

            And why did conscripts fight in Afghanistan, Chechnya, on Damansky Island and in the Great Patriotic War, but now they can’t see?
            1. 0
              3 October 2025 22: 14
              And why did conscripts fight in Afghanistan, Chechnya, on Damansky Island and in the Great Patriotic War, but now they can’t see?
              And what's so good about that, really? Conscript service in combat always—I emphasize, always—results in high casualties of men and equipment. As for Afghanistan, gathering an expeditionary force of elite cutthroats from across the USSR to burn everything that burns and screw everything that moves is a perfectly feasible task. It would have been far more effective and cheaper.
          2. +3
            29 September 2025 22: 09
            Have you read your oath lately? And as for "messing around," well, the officers don't know what to do with the ranks. A comrade's son recently returned from his mandatory service. We only held a machine gun once or twice. Basically, as you put it, we were messing around. A friend's son is serving now. The situation is no better. No, it's on the nightstand. In this regard, everything is according to regulations.
        3. Loh
          +5
          29 September 2025 16: 34
          [QuoteYou have to attack, especially when you have something to attack with. And we do!!![i][/i]][/quote]
          Before the SVO, we also thought we had everything. But it turned out that we only had it at parades, unfortunately. am
      2. +6
        28 September 2025 21: 53
        The energy sector has been under attack for years. Just remember that, in addition to weapons, they're being supplied with large quantities of autonomous generators and help repairing damaged equipment (see the story about Latvia sending spare parts for damaged power plants). We also need to thoroughly address industrial consumers. Industry, too, needs to be completely wiped out. Especially since we remember the stories about machine tools being exported to Poland.
      3. bar
        -5
        29 September 2025 10: 34
        Quote: Rusich
        Or maybe it would be cheaper to destroy all their energy sources?

        In reality, everything is not as it really is.(c)
        The remaining power generation in 404 is nuclear power plants. Their destruction will have very expensive consequences. It's not a pity for the Europeans, but there will be consequences in our country and in Belarus. Have we completely forgotten Chernobyl yet?
      4. 0
        8 October 2025 14: 13
        Energy and launches into our rear areas are not connected.
    2. + 28
      28 September 2025 08: 41
      Reading this nonsense is like China's "Great Leap Forward" with its iron smelting in peasant yards, and the defense of objects, which has repeatedly and constantly proven its strategic fallacy and tactical inconsistency, is like fighting sparrows in the same PRC, with brooms...

      And, by the way, these were also national projects of the PRC.

      We've come this far!!!

      Without destroying wasp nests, on-site wasp control is, as folklore would have it, a multi-layered and convoluted approach... after all, the area of ​​potential damage from drones is proportional to the square of the distance from the launch point.

      These hundreds of billions and "soon" as the Leader will certainly say are wasted money like Skolkovo and Rusnano, and treacherous hopes...
      1. + 13
        28 September 2025 11: 25
        Exactly. War must be waged according to science and age-old rules. And not this slap-and-swat approach. You need to hit with a clenched fist, right in the nose, with all your might, so that blood and snot fly everywhere. The ENTIRE leadership of 404 must be destroyed, everywhere and at every opportunity; the forces and means are there. All that's needed is Putin's political will and an order. That's all.
        1. + 10
          28 September 2025 11: 38
          Why do you think we have the strength and resources? Aside from nuclear weapons? We've been destroying our armed forces for decades, and then suddenly they appear. Where are the Shilkas? They were cut up, while in Poland, for example, they were modernized. We're fighting as best we can, nothing more.
        2. -14
          28 September 2025 21: 58
          We must destroy ALL the leadership of 404, everywhere and at every opportunity, we have the strength and resources to do this.
          Haven't you noticed yet that the ENTIRE leadership of 404 are just stupid talking heads on Western subterfuge? What's the point of hitting them in the face? They're run as they please, and nothing depends on them anymore. They're just executors. Look at what these cannibals are doing. Nobody cares. Because they (the leadership of 404) have been in chains for a long time, and nothing depends on them. Destroy them, and others will immediately appear, ready to curry favor.
          1. + 14
            28 September 2025 22: 30
            Quote from barbos
            Haven't you noticed yet that ALL the 404 management are just stupid talking heads on Western drives? What's the point of hitting them on the mask?

            For example, in 2022, we strike at the Verkhovna Rada during the vote to impose martial law. The entire top echelon of the Ukrainian Reich, along with deputies who betrayed and sold out their people, was there. Some deputies and leaders were killed, while others fled to Europe in terror. Who will make the decisions, impose martial law, and on what basis conduct mobilization and cancel elections?
            The enemy's political leadership has been a primary goal since the Old Testament. Only in those days, the enemy army had to be defeated first, the capital besieged, and taken by storm. Now, that's what we have for WTOs and all sorts of MOABs.
            1. -9
              28 September 2025 22: 56
              Who will make decisions, introduce martial law, conduct mobilization, and cancel elections?
              "Let's just fight" (c) British Prime Minister Boris Jones, who buried the Istanbul Agreements.

              The political leadership of the enemy has been a primary target since Old Testament times.
              That's right. It's leadership, not puppets on a leash.
            2. bar
              +5
              29 September 2025 10: 41
              Quote: Cympak
              Who will make decisions, introduce martial law, conduct mobilization, and cancel elections?

              Do we really have enough of our own population to take complete control of the entire territory of 404? We'd need to mobilize about 5 million people into the military police. Are we ready for that? Or do we still have faith in the good Ukrainians, ready to greet their liberators with bread and salt?
              1. +6
                29 September 2025 13: 43
                But we can’t take it all, even along the Dnieper, and that would be a great achievement.
                1. bar
                  0
                  29 September 2025 17: 26
                  Exactly. Therefore, the question of "taking everything and smashing it so that no authority remains" is irrelevant. Some authority must remain in the remaining territory, and it must somehow control it. And there's nothing that can be done about it. request
              2. +2
                29 September 2025 14: 10
                Do we really have enough of our own population to take full control of the entire territory of 404?

                It won't be enough. According to military science, during an occupation, the minimum ratio of occupation forces to local residents is 10 to 100 (of which 4 are military and 4 are police). But this only applies if there is no guerrilla warfare in the occupied territory (and in Ukraine, it will be). In that case, the occupation forces must be at least doubled.
                Assuming a population of 30 million in Ukraine, the required Russian occupation force in Ukraine would be at least 6 million. This is more than double the total number of the Russian Armed Forces, which currently stands at 2,5 million.
                1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +8
            28 September 2025 23: 31
            welcome
            This isn't the first time I've seen this thread: "They don't do it themselves, they're used."
            so what?
            Who is there really to fight with then?
            with mills?
            because that's what happens!
            in the 14th: "No, we are not ready..."
            The result is that Putin is to blame!
            22 "We have no way out"
            - Putin is to blame!
            The oil refineries are flying - that's him too!
            and who is against?
            Yes, everything works out!
            We don’t touch those, they have nothing to do with it, these civilians, they are simply anointed by God!
            If they are enemies, then they are enemies.
            and if we spare the enemies, many more of our people will fall.
            with all due respect.
            1. 0
              29 September 2025 21: 19
              No, but are we a nuclear power, or not? Why don't we use the weapons our ancestors created, so we could defend our country without cowering, shrinking into modesty, and fearing their use? Or are we just going to talk, talk, talk, and finally just chatter? Simple questions, and we're not getting answers. Soon, "great" Estonia will declare war on us, and we're doing nothing about these gnats. We're so philanthropic, you see, that we have to hide the anti-symbols of our state (the flag), not even displaying them at sporting events, as some countries suffer from allergic reactions to them.
        3. +1
          30 September 2025 19: 21
          Quote from: FoBoss_VM
          We must destroy ALL the leadership of 404, everywhere and at every opportunity, we have the strength and resources to do this.

          To do this you need to know accurate location (up to 20 m radius in the building) and accurate time spent in these coordinates (at least 20 minutes, taking into account the flight time).
          That's all....
      2. man
        -3
        28 September 2025 12: 47
        Quote: Michael Drabkin
        Reading this nonsense is like China's "Great Leap Forward" with its iron smelting in peasant yards, and the defense of objects, which has repeatedly and constantly proven its strategic fallacy and tactical inconsistency, is like fighting sparrows in the same PRC, with brooms...

        And, by the way, these were also national projects of the PRC.

        We've come this far!!!

        What are you unhappy with? China is our oldest ally, so we follow their example.
        Only the Chinese had the slogan "Kill the sparrows!", and we had "Kill the drones!"
        One could say that the author creatively reworked Mao's legacy... fellow
        1. -1
          28 September 2025 14: 38
          Quote: mann
          Only the Chinese had the slogan "Kill the sparrows!", and we had "Kill the drones!"
          One could say that the author creatively reworked Mao's legacy.

          You have a real sense of humor. Especially the HARM of killing sparrows, along with destroying weapons that kill our guys.
          Try thinking a little before writing a comment. Sometimes it can be useful.
          1. man
            0
            28 September 2025 14: 45
            You're talking nonsense, sir. "Try reading the comment I linked to before writing a comment."
            1. -1
              29 September 2025 00: 10
              Quote: mann
              You're talking nonsense, sir. "Try reading the comment I linked to before writing a comment."

              It doesn't matter who you're referring to when you equate the Chinese movement to exterminate sparrows (as the main cause of the declining grain harvest) with the destruction of enemy drones, which are responsible for the loss of military equipment and personnel. While the sparrow massacre can be considered a mistake, your comparison to enemy drones is nonsense.
              1. man
                -2
                29 September 2025 00: 32
                Read more carefully, the comparison is not mine.
                1. -2
                  29 September 2025 00: 36
                  Quote: mann
                  What are you unhappy with? China is our oldest ally, so we follow their example.
                  Only the Chinese had the slogan "Kill the sparrows!", and we had "Kill the drones!".

                  WHOSE IS THIS???
                  1. man
                    -2
                    29 September 2025 00: 38
                    Quote: skeptic
                    Quote: mann
                    What are you unhappy with? China is our oldest ally, so we follow their example.
                    Only the Chinese had the slogan "Kill the sparrows!", and we had "Kill the drones!"

                    WHOSE IS THIS???

                    Read Drabkin's comment!
      3. +5
        28 September 2025 13: 43
        Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
        We've come this far!!!
        Agreed. If we shut down the oil refineries, they'll start hitting the power plants. If we shut them down, they'll hit the chemical plants. And so on.
        1. +2
          28 September 2025 18: 44
          The author deliberately didn't mention passive protection - nets, grates, into which everything will gradually be drawn. There are plenty of photos.
        2. +9
          28 September 2025 21: 49
          You might think mini-refineries wouldn't be targets. It's probably easier to organize reliable protection for one large refinery than to spread air defenses across hundreds of smaller ones.
    3. -1
      29 September 2025 10: 07
      Quote: Aleksandral
      It's still cheaper than burying, treating, and rebuilding! Unless, of course, the fifth column and bureaucrats screw things up?

      In my opinion, it is cheaper to install a stationary air defense point with a rapid-fire machine gun or a cannon with bunker feeding.
    4. 0
      6 October 2025 22: 22
      Quote: Aleksandral
      fifth column and

      So is she already causing a lot of trouble, or do you seriously believe that drones are flying from Ukraine?
  2. +8
    28 September 2025 05: 09
    Digitalization, or more precisely neural networks, must save the day. A highly accurate digital terrain map must be created at a certain depth along the entire front and the border with Ukraine.

    Let me remind the esteemed forum members that in 2009, our unforgettable Dmitry Anatolyevich concluded an agreement with Obama regarding flights of American aircraft to Afghanistan via Russian territory.
    Let me also remind you about the flights of US and NATO reconnaissance aircraft under the DOST and CFE treaties over Russian territory... I personally observed one such aircraft overhead and cursed those who allowed this to happen. request
    Now I would like to compare the flight routes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces UAVs with the flight routes of NATO and US aircraft... are there any coincidences here... maybe they are flying along digital maps of Russian territory that they have already created... which we kindly allowed them to make.
    1. +5
      28 September 2025 14: 16
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Now I would like to compare the flight routes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' UAVs with the flight routes of NATO and US aircraft... are there any coincidences here?

      There are no coincidences, since they were flying over Strategic Missile Forces facilities, which, fortunately, they don't touch... Something to think about... A bunch of aircraft fly over the Russian Federation in transit, both today and in the past... And? Satellites rule these days; don't live in the 70s...
    2. +4
      28 September 2025 18: 49
      Same lech
      (Alexei At a certain depth along the entire front and the border with Ukraine, a highly accurate digital relief map must be created.
      Now I would like to compare the flight routes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces UAVs with the flight routes of NATO and US aircraft... are there any coincidences here... maybe they are flying according to digital maps they have already created

      The "digital" map is created by Earth remote sensing satellites - ERS
      "The most accurate digital map" is created by a pair of remote sensing satellites.
      They and we have all this regardless of the planes that flew by.
      .
      capabilities are growing, and the Americans are already aiming for online tracking of changes from space (unceasingly) - that is, they want to observe live the movement of equipment and terrain (they dug trenches, filled up a mound) in the area of ​​interest
  3. + 38
    28 September 2025 05: 24
    The only and unique ways to protect both oil refineries and all other facilities in Russia are either
    1) Our tanks at enemy airfields/in the enemy capital, which will allow the war to end with a favorable peace treaty. Or
    2) Normal relations with neighbors whom you do not attack and whose territory you do not occupy.
    The idea of ​​simultaneously waging a war that's endless on one side and without the slightest chance of victory on the other is absurd. It doesn't increase the security of people and assets; it reduces them to zero. This is precisely what we're seeing in practice.
    As for the author's proposal to spend another couple of hundred billion of public money on protecting oil refineries, given this absurdity, it's a wise idea. It won't add a single penny to security, but the right guys will be able to make some real money and further increase their wealth.
    1. +8
      28 September 2025 06: 26
      Well, having tanks on enemy airfields just doesn't seem to be working. And living in peace with our neighbors isn't exactly a desirable option... And spending hundreds of billions while neglecting other areas isn't a good idea. So, the bottom line is to stop puffing out our cheeks and be content with what we have. This has a huge advantage: people will stop dying at the front, and we can focus on our own problems in a more or less peaceful environment.
      1. -12
        28 September 2025 08: 21
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        The conclusion is to stop puffing out your cheeks and be content with what you have.

        So, we've deflated our cheeks and become content with what we have, so what? Will the neighbors calm down too?
        1. +4
          28 September 2025 11: 41
          Of course. They don't need us for a hundred years. Well, except as a territory whose owners are from the Kremlin, selling natural resources.
          1. 0
            30 September 2025 19: 31
            Quote from: dmi.pris1
            Of course. They don't need us for a hundred years. Well, except as a territory whose owners are from the Kremlin, selling natural resources.

            Well then, the Soviet mumbling about "evil NATO" is nonsense, since "they don't need us for 100 years."
            Because resources were transported through the same gas, oil, ammonium, and other electricity pipelines, as were timber, coal, and ore.
            To exactly the same capitalist countries as now from the same Kremlin...
      2. man
        +9
        28 September 2025 13: 11
        But I don’t really want to live in peace with my neighbors...
        Well, you're wrong about that. Who's to blame that those damned Ukrainian Nazis so treacherously attacked our beloved legitimate criminal? The poor guy barely made it back to Russia... So we stood up for him. So it was the Ukrainians who attacked us, and we're just defending ourselves.
      3. -8
        29 September 2025 09: 01
        no stop to the war, no matter how many years pass until victory
      4. -1
        8 October 2025 22: 56
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        The conclusion is to stop puffing out your cheeks and be content with what you have.

        If we don’t destroy Ukraine, it will first destroy the Russians in Crimea, and then all of Russia.
    2. -21
      28 September 2025 08: 19
      Quote: Belisarius
      Normal relations with neighbors whom you do not attack and whose territory you do not occupy.

      Did we attack someone or occupy someone’s territory?
      1. +9
        28 September 2025 09: 32
        According to international law, this is how it looks.
        1. -13
          28 September 2025 13: 51
          Quote: Ermak_415
          According to international law, this is how it looks.

          By what right, by what right? What a funny joke. We attacked our own territories. (Or do referendums not count under international law?)
          1. +6
            28 September 2025 14: 27
            You can write whatever you want, Alexey, blame whoever you want, be sophisticated with synonyms and meanings, invent word forms... but from the point of view of countries that are not members of the NWO (and that's the rest of the world), everything looks like this... And leaving comments on VO, you won't convince them otherwise... and so - yes, of course, our territories...
            1. -5
              28 September 2025 14: 30
              Quote: 2 level advisor
              You can write whatever you want, Alexey, blame whoever you want, be sophisticated with synonyms and meanings, invent word forms... but from the point of view of countries that are not members of the NWO (and that's the rest of the world), everything looks like this... And leaving comments on VO, you won't convince them otherwise... and so - yes, of course, our territories...

              I'm not trying to convince them otherwise. I'm telling it like it is. Everything there is unconventional. Why try to convince them? But they understand everything and have stopped being afraid because they lack the will to deliver an adequate and appropriate blow.
              1. +1
                28 September 2025 14: 31
                Quote: Rusich
                I tell it like it is.

                I agree, the whole world is wrong if Alexey said this. laughing What do they have to fear? Are we planning to conquer the EU? Or Africa? Or has a war started with them?
                1. -6
                  28 September 2025 14: 40
                  Quote: 2 level advisor
                  Quote: Rusich
                  I tell it like it is.

                  I agree, the whole world is wrong if Alexey said this. laughing What do they have to fear? Are we planning to conquer the EU? Or Africa? Or has a war started with them?
                  This is exactly what you are doing.
                  You can write whatever you want... blame anyone, be creative with synonyms and meanings, invent word forms.
                  You stand up for the entire world! Then tell me what we've violated? Haven't we stood up for our own people? Your nickname is telling. When I was young, I worked with someone who once said, "I can give you a thousand and one pieces of advice, but I can't do anything with my own hands." You're accusing me of something, attributing something to me, but you haven't expressed your position.
                  1. +4
                    28 September 2025 16: 37
                    Quote: Rusich
                    You stand up for the whole world!

                    not at all... you need to stand up for him if he is being offended... I don't see who is offending the whole world? laughing As for my position... I am for strengthening our country, first and foremost, when Russian citizens begin to live better, gain confidence in the future, sleep peacefully and live without crises escalating from one to another... and if something swims, quacks, looks like a duck, then it is a duck... even if you, our buddies, and I start calling it a goose for some reason, it will still be a duck...
                  2. +1
                    29 September 2025 10: 12
                    Quote: Rusich
                    Quote: 2 level advisor
                    Quote: Rusich
                    I tell it like it is.

                    I agree, the whole world is wrong if Alexey said this. laughing What do they have to fear? Are we planning to conquer the EU? Or Africa? Or has a war started with them?
                    This is exactly what you are doing.
                    You can write whatever you want... blame anyone, be creative with synonyms and meanings, invent word forms.
                    You stand up for the entire world! Then tell me what we've violated? Haven't we stood up for our own people? Your nickname is telling. When I was young, I worked with someone who once said, "I can give you a thousand and one pieces of advice, but I can't do anything with my own hands." You're accusing me of something, attributing something to me, but you haven't expressed your position.

                    You should go to the Baltics and protect your people, who don't want to move at all.
            2. +1
              6 October 2025 20: 22
              No need for blah-blah, in this world there is and always will be only the right of the strong. And the opinions of small countries matter little.
              1. -1
                6 October 2025 21: 44
                Quote: The Leash
                No need for blah-blah, in this world there is and always will be only the right of the strong. And the opinions of small countries matter little.

                The EU is all about the little ones... and where in my post did I deny the right of might? Well, then we should call a spade a spade.
          2. -4
            28 September 2025 16: 36
            Or do referendums not count under international law?

            Yes, the same Zaporizhzhia and a huge part of the DPR became part of Russia even without being under the control of the Russian Armed Forces, which is already an indicator.
        2. -7
          28 September 2025 14: 02
          Quote: Ermak_415
          According to international law, this is how it looks.

          That's why they're taking advantage of you. They've crushed your president and you...
          1. 0
            28 September 2025 16: 45
            Oh, here it goes....
            Since you consider everyone who disagrees with "your" opinion to be Ukrainian, go to Pikabu under the "Politics" tag, and here's an analytical forum on military topics.
            1. -9
              28 September 2025 17: 34
              Quote: Ermak_415
              Oh, here it goes....
              Since you consider everyone who disagrees with "your" opinion to be Ukrainian, go to Pikabu under the "Politics" tag, and here's an analytical forum on military topics.

              You should stay in your own country and show off your smarts...
              1. -2
                28 September 2025 17: 44
                So I'm sitting in it, it's called Russia
                1. -6
                  29 September 2025 06: 47
                  Quote: Ermak_415
                  So I'm sitting in it, it's called Russia

                  With a foreign flag))
                  1. -2
                    29 September 2025 07: 28
                    Aliens? Since when is the flag of the Russian Federation not this 🇷🇺?
                    1. -7
                      29 September 2025 09: 09
                      Quote: Ermak_415
                      Aliens? Since when is the flag of the Russian Federation not this 🇷🇺?

                      What can I talk to you about if you don't know the Russian flag? Tsipsota was poorly prepared.
      2. +9
        28 September 2025 14: 42
        Quote: Rusich
        Did we attack someone or occupy someone’s territory?

        Hmm... And who attacked on February 24 without declaring war? recognized by themselves (and the rest of the world) the territory of Ukraine with recognized by themselves by the Ukrainian government?
        Reptilians? Judeo-Bolsheviks? Freemasons?
        Oh, I forgot—it was Ukraine that launched a campaign for living space. Its tanks were outside Moscow on the third day. It occupied our regions and said, "We'll hold a referendum here"—and now it's all ours.
        Those treacherous Nazis!
        1. -11
          28 September 2025 15: 08
          Quote: Belisarius
          And who was it that on February 24th, without declaring war, attacked the territories of Ukraine recognized by themselves (and the rest of the world) with the government of Ukraine recognized by them?

          Are you mistaken, or are you deliberately distorting the facts?)) We did not attack Ukraine, we stood up to defend a sovereign people!
          On May 11, 2014, a referendum on the political status of these regions was held in the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. The question put to the referendum was: "Do you support the Act on the state independence of the Donetsk (Lugansk) People's Republic?" There were two answer options: "yes" and "no".
          According to your logic, Ukraine was also captured because there are many foreign troops on their territory?
          I don't want to argue with you any further. You have your own truth. Why should I try to convince you otherwise? Time will show you where the truth lies.
          1. +2
            28 September 2025 16: 56
            We didn't attack Ukraine, we stood up to defend a sovereign nation.

            What? Do the DPR and LPR position themselves as separate people(s)?
            And even then, shouldn't the Chechen wars have been defensive wars for the freedom of a sovereign people? Or is that something else entirely? If so, why didn't Georgia have the right to do the same with South Ossetia?
            What about the war in Transnistria? There, Ukrainians and Russians fought together to preserve their languages ​​and cultures.
            I don't want to argue with you any further. You have your own truth.

            Why then did you respond to Belisarius' message?
            1. -8
              28 September 2025 17: 33
              Quote: Ermak_415
              Do the DPR and LPR position themselves as separate people(s)?

              I'll repeat it for the die-hards.
              On May 11, 2014, a referendum on the political status of the regions was held in the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. The referendum question was: "Do you support the Act on State Independence of the Donetsk (Luhansk) People's Republic?"

              Quote: Ermak_415
              Why then did you respond to Belisarius' message?

              Open your eyes. I didn't answer him. Have you run out of things to pick on?
              1. 0
                28 September 2025 17: 47
                I'll repeat it for the die-hards.
                On May 11, 2014, a referendum on the political status of the regions was held in the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics. The referendum question was: "Do you support the Act on State Independence of the Donetsk (Luhansk) People's Republic?"

                And what does that change, you idiot? Where in the text you pasted does it say they are a sovereign people?
                You have nothing left to find fault with and have run out of arguments?))

                Said the man who labels everyone who disagrees with his opinion as Ukrainians))
          2. + 12
            29 September 2025 02: 54
            Quote: Rusich
            On May 11, 2014, a referendum on the political status of the regions was held in the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.

            The problem isn't the "butting heads" or the existence of some mythical "truth of your own." The problem is that what you write is completely outside the facts of life and reality. It's like believing in a flat Earth. Literally, point by point.
            1) Indeed, on May 11, 05.2014, a referendum was held in the part of Donbas not controlled by the central government. Citizens had every right to do so, as a coup had taken place in Kyiv. However, the central government also had every right not to recognize the results.
            2) However, on May 25, the Russian government recognized the election results in Ukraine. After that, any references to a coup d'état became meaningless. Putin and Co. themselves recognized the Maidan regime.
            3) In early September 2014, the Minsk Agreements (the "prepared" ones) were signed, with the Russian government becoming their guarantor. It was clearly stated there that Donbas is Ukrainian territory. This means that from now on, according to everyone, including Russia, it is an internal Ukrainian conflict.
            4) On February 21, 02.2022, the Russian Federation unilaterally recognizes the LPR and DPR, which is legally null and void, as the basis on which one country divides the other's territory is unknown. However, that's only half the problem.
            5) On February 24, 2022, the Russian Federation began a war by attacking and introducing troops into the entire territory of Ukraine, not the DPR and LPR, but rather into the Sumy, Kherson, Chernihiv, and other oblasts that, from the perspective of the Russian Federation (and the entire world), are considered integral parts of Ukraine. Furthermore, they also recognize the Ukrainian government.
            So aggression is a fact, just like the rising of the sun, absolutely regardless of who you personally support - Putin, Pinochet, Ben Lazar or Pharaoh Ramses IV.
            That's not the question at all, and that's not what I wrote about. The question is, okay, if you're going to start a war (calling down thousands of disasters on our heads), then win itConduct it humanely, and don't offer to negotiate with the government of the country you attacked on the third day of the operation. This surreal nonsense about conducting the SVO is what led us to the current situation, four years into this war.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. +1
                29 September 2025 10: 26
                Quote: Rusich
                Quote: Belisarius
                Do you personally support Putin?

                I didn't even comment on your nonsense.))
                Yes, I am on the side of the Russian President and Russia!
                Whose side are you on? The question is rhetorical.

                Orban answered the rhetorical question well: I am on the side of the Hungarians.
                So, will this war benefit the Russian people? Aside from the direct losses of the most patriotic population of working and reproductive age? Instead, they're bringing in hardworking migrants from all over the world, bringing with them numerous families of different religions and cultures. This increases the burden on the pension fund, healthcare, and education, as well as crime. Add to this the need to maintain a large army, which also requires personnel. It turns out that living in peace is much more profitable than fighting.
                1. -3
                  29 September 2025 11: 58
                  Quote: Panin (Michman)
                  And it turns out that living peacefully is much more profitable than fighting.

                  I completely agree with you. But! I'll give just a couple of examples of how the US prepared Ukraine for war with Russia.
                  A branch of the FBI Academy still operates in Budapest, where Americans have been training personnel for the intelligence services of Eastern European countries for many years. Ukrainians have also been among the diligent students since around 1993. The Americanization of the intelligence services of the Independent State has been underway for decades.

                  A typical example: in 2008, US Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor presented shoulder straps to graduates of the SBU Academy. Since 2012, Kyiv has been participating in NATO's DEEP (Defense Education Enhancement Program), which ostensibly assists partner countries in developing and reforming their military education systems. In reality, this involves training soldiers according to NATO standards.

                  The "founder" of the recruitment network is said to be Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a prominent participant in the 2014 coup d'état and former head of the SBU. Former head of foreign intelligence Valeriy Kondratyuk, head of the SBU's Counterintelligence Department Vitaliy Naida, former head of the Main Intelligence Directorate Vasyl Burba, and others became career CIA agents thanks to Nalyvaichenko. These individuals effectively began preparing Ukraine for war with Russia and creating powerful fortified areas. The liberation of Mariupol and Avdiivka are prime examples.

                  In essence, the United States created conditions in Ukraine under which the Ukrainian armed forces became de facto completely under the control of external actors. Moreover, even if we accept the idea that a government willing to engage in constructive dialogue with Moscow would one day come to power in Ukraine, the Americans' vision is that it would still not be able to fully control its own armed forces.
                  How the Americans Prepared Ukraine for an Attack on Russia: A NED Memo
                  (Published on September 27, 2022 at https://eadaily.com/ru/ All news)

                  Further evidence that the Zelenskyy regime was preparing for war with Russia, as well as a possible invasion of Russian cities, comes from a Ukrainian-language manual titled "Memo. For Participants in the Russian-Ukrainian War. Rights, Obligations, and Guarantees of Social Protection." The manual has been published since 2015 and was originally intended for ATO participants, as reflected in its title. We obtained the revised edition from June 1, 2021, bearing the new title.
                  * This publication provides clear recommendations on what needs to be done as soon as the order is received to begin the offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the subsequent mobilization of the population.
                  So you think we should have waited for them to attack us again? Like in '41?
                  1. +2
                    29 September 2025 13: 19
                    Quote: Rusich
                    Quote: Panin (Michman)
                    And it turns out that living peacefully is much more profitable than fighting.

                    I completely agree with you. But! I'll give just a couple of examples of how the US prepared Ukraine for war with Russia.
                    A branch of the FBI Academy still operates in Budapest, where Americans have been training personnel for the intelligence services of Eastern European countries for many years. Ukrainians have also been among the diligent students since around 1993. The Americanization of the intelligence services of the Independent State has been underway for decades.

                    A typical example: in 2008, US Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor presented shoulder straps to graduates of the SBU Academy. Since 2012, Kyiv has been participating in NATO's DEEP (Defense Education Enhancement Program), which ostensibly assists partner countries in developing and reforming their military education systems. In reality, this involves training soldiers according to NATO standards.

                    The "founder" of the recruitment network is said to be Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a prominent participant in the 2014 coup d'état and former head of the SBU. Former head of foreign intelligence Valeriy Kondratyuk, head of the SBU's Counterintelligence Department Vitaliy Naida, former head of the Main Intelligence Directorate Vasyl Burba, and others became career CIA agents thanks to Nalyvaichenko. These individuals effectively began preparing Ukraine for war with Russia and creating powerful fortified areas. The liberation of Mariupol and Avdiivka are prime examples.

                    In essence, the United States created conditions in Ukraine under which the Ukrainian armed forces became de facto completely under the control of external actors. Moreover, even if we accept the idea that a government willing to engage in constructive dialogue with Moscow would one day come to power in Ukraine, the Americans' vision is that it would still not be able to fully control its own armed forces.
                    How the Americans Prepared Ukraine for an Attack on Russia: A NED Memo
                    (Published on September 27, 2022 at https://eadaily.com/ru/ All news)

                    Further evidence that the Zelenskyy regime was preparing for war with Russia, as well as a possible invasion of Russian cities, comes from a Ukrainian-language manual titled "Memo. For Participants in the Russian-Ukrainian War. Rights, Obligations, and Guarantees of Social Protection." The manual has been published since 2015 and was originally intended for ATO participants, as reflected in its title. We obtained the revised edition from June 1, 2021, bearing the new title.
                    * This publication provides clear recommendations on what needs to be done as soon as the order is received to begin the offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the subsequent mobilization of the population.
                    So you think we should have waited for them to attack us again? Like in '41?

                    One simple question.
                    Why build massive fortifications if you're planning to attack? The Finns also built fortifications, but only to protect themselves from a persistent neighbor.
                    1. -4
                      29 September 2025 13: 37
                      Quote: Panin (Michman)
                      Why create powerful fortified areas if you are going to attack?

                      “These are modern fortifications of the Ukrainian army near Mariupol, for which a billion has already been sawn. Do not believe? Still, for many, war is the Klondike, ”Ukrainian blogger, political analyst Vladimir Kornilov angrily remarks.

                      The authors themselves summarize their report with these words: "By the way, locals don't believe these fortifications were built for defense. They think this is what Ukraine's new border looks like. I don't want to believe it at all."
                      Military Review
                      News
                      Ukrainian Armed Forces fortifications near Mariupol from a different angle, July 26, 2015.
                      I don't see any point in arguing further.
                      All the best to you and a peaceful sky!
                      1. -2
                        29 September 2025 15: 45
                        Quote: Rusich
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        Why create powerful fortified areas if you are going to attack?

                        “These are modern fortifications of the Ukrainian army near Mariupol, for which a billion has already been sawn. Do not believe? Still, for many, war is the Klondike, ”Ukrainian blogger, political analyst Vladimir Kornilov angrily remarks.

                        The authors themselves summarize their report with these words: "By the way, locals don't believe these fortifications were built for defense. They think this is what Ukraine's new border looks like. I don't want to believe it at all."
                        Military Review
                        News
                        Ukrainian Armed Forces fortifications near Mariupol from a different angle, July 26, 2015.
                        I don't see any point in arguing further.
                        All the best to you and a peaceful sky!

                        There may have been nothing near Mariupol, just like there was nothing near Kursk. But it took three years to take Avdiivka.
                      2. -1
                        30 September 2025 05: 33
                        Quote: Panin (Michman)
                        But Avdiivka took three years to take.

                        Two years, comrade liar. Agree, a year is a long time. Two years and three years are a big difference.
              2. +3
                29 September 2025 11: 05
                “Dumber and greedier”?
                Don't you really notice the Nazi influence in your own words?
                I understand, of course, that you are advocating for the protection of citizens of a specific territory, but this is going too far.
                1. -7
                  29 September 2025 12: 07
                  Quote: Russian_Ninja
                  “Dumber and greedier”?
                  Don't you really notice the Nazi influence in your own words?
                  I understand, of course, that you are advocating for the protection of citizens of a specific territory, but this is going too far.

                  Don't distort things. I was talking about one country specifically. And not even about a nation.
                  Will a smart person jump around with a saucepan on his head?
                  Did I offend you personally? Then I apologize.
                  Anticipating your nitpicking about nationality, I'll say that I consider Ukrainians who consider Russians enemies to be "khokhly." By "Russian," I don't mean a nationality, but the indigenous population of the Russian Federation.
    3. +2
      28 September 2025 10: 33
      Quote: Belisarius
      hundreds of billions of public money to protect oil refineries

      And yet... Mobilizing 150+ ZSU-23-2 installations and training conscript crews for them cost nothing, significantly reducing the effectiveness of the strikes, if not completely nullifying them.
      1. +3
        28 September 2025 11: 44
        Where will we get these installations? From nothingness?
        1. +1
          28 September 2025 17: 12
          Quote from: dmi.pris1
          Where will we get these installations? From nothingness?

          Even if they're new, for the Tula plant it's two days' work. For the rest, it's no more than a week.
          1. +1
            28 September 2025 18: 11
            Shilka, in two days? From scratch? Are you serious? In a production facility overloaded with other products? Then we'll need to polish up the "Derivation" and install it as a module, not on a chassis.
            1. 0
              28 September 2025 21: 38
              Quote from: dmi.pris1
              Shilka, in two days? From scratch? Are you serious?

              Я nowhere I didn't mention Shilkas or Biryuzas. Only the primitive towed ZSU-23-2s. I've been to machine-building plants. Even on the assembly line, they produce several of these designs a day. If it's an assembly line, it could be dozens a day.
              If we're talking about Shilkas with an electromechanical computer, the plant that remained capable historically produced them at a rate of 2-3 units per day. But it could have produced up to 16-17 per day, assuming three-shift operation and a supply of spare parts.
              1. +2
                28 September 2025 21: 48
                The ZSU-23-2 doesn't exist. The ZU does. And I'll repeat it again. Industrial capacity is at its maximum capacity.
                1. -1
                  28 September 2025 21: 53
                  Quote from: dmi.pris1
                  The ZSU-23-2 doesn't exist. The ZU does. And I'll repeat it again. Industrial capacity is at its maximum capacity.

                  Are you picking on typos? Firstly, the ZSU-23-2 exists, but of course I meant the non-self-propelled version. It's a ZU-23-2. Preferably modified with a thermal imager, rangefinder, and, ideally, a Doppler or optical speed sensor. These are quite inexpensive these days, and ready-made versions are available on the market.
                  1. +1
                    28 September 2025 22: 41
                    There are suitable solutions for machine gun turrets in the back of the Sobol cargo-passenger vehicle.
                    However, for the close-in defense zone against drones of strategic production facilities and infrastructure, aircraft-type UAV interceptor crews will be more effective.
                    Near populated areas and fire-prone sites, firing autocannons is fraught with collateral damage (ZU shells do not dissolve in the air and can fall on civilian objects, just like the notorious debris).
                    But all this is the last line of defense. The primary interception line must be in uninhabited areas along the enemy UAVs' flight paths over our territory. To achieve this, unpaved runways must be deployed along the expected flight paths (they've long been understood), where Su-25s, L-39s, Yak-130s, and helicopters can be based. These are the ones who must intercept the enemy's low-speed drones.
      2. +5
        28 September 2025 14: 49
        Quote: goose
        It cost nothing to mobilize 150+ ZSU-23-2 installations and prepare conscript crews for them.

        Technologically, the idea is sound. There are several obstacles: all the surviving 23-2s (and there aren't many of them) are already at the front, so training conscripts for it isn't that easy. And the ZSU isn't effective against small UAVs. Thermal imaging and remote-detonated projectiles are needed.
        Well, tactically, the idea, I repeat, is reasonable. We must do it.
        The problem is that strategically (with the adopted strategy of endless war without a goal) it is like carrying water in a sieve.
  4. The comment was deleted.
    1. man
      + 11
      28 September 2025 13: 27
      The analysis was encouraging: "...the conflict in Ukraine will drag on, and likely for more than one year..."
      Don't worry, the author is just alarmist. I watch TV regularly, and absolutely everyone is telling us very convincingly how we're about to win! fellow This is the fourth year they've been talking about this... sad
  5. +3
    28 September 2025 05: 55
    Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles.
    Perhaps we should launch preemptive strikes against the pig-faced infrastructure of unmanned systems, rather than defending our own infrastructure? But we certainly need to protect our own, too.
    1. +3
      28 September 2025 14: 53
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Maybe we should launch preemptive strikes against the pig-faced infrastructure of unmanned systems, rather than defending our own infrastructure?

      No, what are you saying? These are not our methods. We are avengers, not preventers. laughing laughing
    2. +2
      29 September 2025 14: 04
      That's right, the best defense is a good offense; we need to hit the drone assembly and production sites.
  6. -9
    28 September 2025 06: 07
    As is well known, burning drone wreckage is a major problem for oil refineries. During the war, people were trained to deal with incendiary bombs. Firefighting brigades should be established here too. As a famous Israeli intelligence chief said, "Intelligence, intelligence, and more intelligence." We must be informed of the enemy's big and small plans. Learn from reliable sources, not from foreign newspapers.
    1. + 16
      28 September 2025 06: 55
      Would you want to be "on duty" next to a distillation column? And turn to ash in an instant? How can you even imagine putting out a fuel-filled fire manually?
      1. man
        +1
        28 September 2025 13: 53
        Quote: ASSAD1
        Would you yourself want to "stand guard next to a distillation column" and turn to ashes in an instant?

        Or maybe he's a pyromaniac... he'd only get a kick out of it.
        1. 0
          29 September 2025 23: 53
          Or maybe he's a pyromaniac... he'd only get a kick out of it.

          A pyromaniac is someone who sets something on fire. Not someone who burns themselves.
          1. man
            0
            29 September 2025 23: 55
            Quote from solar
            Or maybe he's a pyromaniac... he'd only get a kick out of it.

            A pyromaniac is someone who sets something on fire. Not someone who burns themselves.

            Not necessarily. If you search for it, you'll see several meanings for the word.
    2. + 15
      28 September 2025 07: 11
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      As is well known, burning drone debris is a major problem for oil refineries. During the war, people were taught how to deal with incendiary bombs. Fire brigades should be established here too.

      Debris, you say... Volunteer fire brigades at the oil refinery...
      Congenially!
      #sarcasm
    3. + 25
      28 September 2025 08: 54
      So join the fire brigade YOURSELF. Protect the oligarch's factory for free. And when you burn down, your mother will get a certificate.
      1. + 22
        28 September 2025 10: 36
        Quote: cast iron
        Protect the oligarch's plant for free.

        This is the reason for all the failures of the Central Military District: the country doesn't belong to us. All the losses and damages go to the people, all the gains and profits to the oligarchs. This has been the state policy for the last 30 years. That's why people are in no hurry to run off to fight, either here or in Ukraine or in Europe, no matter how you turn on the emitter.
      2. man
        +3
        28 September 2025 13: 47
        Quote: cast iron
        And when you burn, your mother will be given a certificate.

        Honorary...
    4. +9
      28 September 2025 11: 05
      As is well known, burning drone debris is a major problem for oil refineries.

      Only in the media for the littlest of children, in reality, it's not fiberglass drone debris that punctures tanks and columns, but rather direct hits. There's a ton of video footage online, but I've never seen a 300-gram piece of debris set something on fire in free fall.
      1. man
        -1
        28 September 2025 14: 01
        Quote: Anatoly_4
        As is well known, burning drone debris is a major problem for oil refineries.

        Only in the media for the littlest of children, in reality, it's not fiberglass drone debris that punctures tanks and columns, but rather direct hits. There's a ton of video footage online, but I've never seen a 300-gram piece of debris set something on fire in free fall.

        "You're slacking off, you bastard!" smile
    5. man
      +3
      28 September 2025 13: 46
      As is well known, burning drone debris is a major problem for oil refineries. During the war, people were trained to protect themselves from incendiary bombs. Fire brigades should be established here too.
      Great! What a wonderful idea! But we can't trust cowardly adults to implement this magnificent idea. In the USSR, we had young friends of the firefighters, so let's organize one here too! But... it's unlikely we'll be able to persuade schoolchildren... they're already capitalist children... they'll start demanding money... we'll have to recruit from kindergartens. I'm sure you'll join in and bring your grandchildren. hi
  7. -10
    28 September 2025 06: 30
    My opinion, I think it's correct, is that with this money we should build ten new factories next to military facilities protected by air defense, taking into account passive protection from UAVs. This war will last a long time, and it's time to start working, otherwise the Russian world and language will disappear. negative
    1. +4
      28 September 2025 09: 35
      otherwise the Russian world and language will disappear

      I can still understand the world, but where will the language go?
      Will all 145 million people start speaking English or Chinese?
      1. man
        -1
        28 September 2025 14: 08
        Quote: Ermak_415
        otherwise the Russian world and language will disappear

        I can still understand the world, but where will the language go?
        Will all 145 million people start speaking English or Chinese?

        in Chinese... I'll have to... I'd rather join the partisans..
      2. +2
        29 September 2025 13: 25
        Quote: Ermak_415
        otherwise the Russian world and language will disappear

        I can still understand the world, but where will the language go?
        Will all 145 million people start speaking English or Chinese?

        In Ukraine, Russian has not yet disappeared.
    2. +6
      28 September 2025 13: 52
      The Russian world and language will disappear for a completely different reason. Vote, or you'll lose...
    3. +1
      30 September 2025 00: 08
      build ten new factories near military facilities protected by air defense

      The Americans built entire fake cities in their time.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA5JIrLep6k
  8. +2
    28 September 2025 07: 07
    The key to protecting oil refineries is immediately empowering businesses to protect their infrastructure. Currently, laws prohibit businesses from shooting down UAVs (private security companies are not allowed to carry machine guns or MANPADS), or even constructing passive protective structures (nets are not allowed, according to Rostekhnadzor).
    The second point is the personal responsibility of air defense generals for the omission of shelves hundreds of kilometers deep into the territory.
    1. +2
      29 September 2025 16: 34
      I don't know about machine guns, you're probably right about that, but they do use nets. I work at a similar facility, and all our key points are netted. It's simply unrealistic to net everything at a huge facility; it's both very expensive and technically challenging.
  9. -10
    28 September 2025 07: 09
    You can't live peacefully side by side with Nazism. NATO is spending billions on weapons for good reason. They're preparing for war, and they're preparing to attack. So, peace with them can only come after the defeat of NATO democracy and Nazism. I think Russia needs to deploy a lot of tactical nuclear weapons along its border.
    1. +1
      28 September 2025 09: 35
      Until 2014, NATO was steadily weakening. The US was reducing its presence in Europe, and European armies, including Poland, were relegated to small expeditionary operations without significant investment. After 2014, the situation improved somewhat, but not enough, as it was precisely because of this that we couldn't supply Ukraine with everything it needed. Today, the situation has changed. Thanks to Russia, enormous new capacities have been built, and Europe can now supply the front lines of a full-scale war without a shortage of industrial capacity. And thanks to Sweden and Finland
    2. 0
      28 September 2025 09: 37
      NATO is spending billions on weapons for good reason. They're preparing for war.

      Maybe so. Or maybe, on the contrary, they are preparing for defense.
    3. Egg
      +5
      28 September 2025 10: 06
      Quote: Kostos1973
      I think that Russia needs to deploy a lot of tactical nuclear weapons along the border,

      Translated into Russian: "In the zone of destruction by penny drones and MLRS" Brilliant!!!
      #sarcasm wassat
  10. + 12
    28 September 2025 07: 15
    Then, specially trained “electronic machines” will create maps of the most likely routes of enemy drones.

    Another piece of science fiction.
    Yandex spent $10 billion on AI, so far Alice, despite all her access to big data, has the "intelligence" of a 5-year-old. Sber - $14 billion. Microsoft - $30 billion. And what?
    AI is not a knock-off project. What "specially trained machines"?
    This is still a huge amount of money - with an unclear result.
    However, investors have become disillusioned with AI, and investment is declining, which is the most telling indicator of its effectiveness.
    If everywhere where not nailed down Inserting the words "neural networks" and AI where they used to write "automated control systems" won't make them solve problems any better.
  11. + 10
    28 September 2025 07: 18
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    Now I would like to compare the flight routes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces UAVs with the flight routes of NATO and US aircraft... are there any coincidences here... maybe they are flying along digital maps of Russian territory that they have already created

    Have you ever looked at Google and Yandex Maps?
    Everything has long been mapped using remote sensing satellites.
  12. -4
    28 September 2025 07: 22
    A convenient position. Offer nothing. Only criticize those who do. Even if it's not done professionally. If we've forgotten how to put out forest fires, then we'll have a hard time dealing with other fires. In the old days, before airplanes and tractors, people knew how to block fires. But putting out fires with pumps is simply not practical. We live in a new century, and we don't even use old-fashioned methods.
    1. + 13
      28 September 2025 10: 42
      Quote: Nikolay Malyugin
      If we've forgotten how to put out forest fires, then we'll have a hard time dealing with other fires. In the old days, when there were no airplanes or tractors, people knew how to block fires.

      They haven't forgotten how, but they've zeroed out funding for forest protection, cut all air force support, and nearly eliminated firefighting units. Oligarchs benefit from fires in coniferous forests—it's easier to obtain logging permits. Incidentally, the forest itself doesn't lose its value, as only the bark and thin branches are burned, leaving the trunks intact. Now, instead of billions, tens and hundreds of billions are spent on extinguishing forests in the taiga, forest fires are 15 times more frequent than in Soviet times.
    2. man
      +1
      28 September 2025 14: 26
      Quote: Nikolai Malyugin
      A comfortable position. Offer nothing. Only criticize those who do offer something. Even if it's not incompetent.

      It's simply better for "unqualified" people to read... and ask questions of qualified people. But not in this case; the situation is so basic that no specialist assistance is required... Maybe it wasn't you, but your great-grandson, logging in under your username? That doesn't sound like you... request
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. +9
    28 September 2025 07: 39
    such as Portable ZU-23-2 or modernized analogues

    I wonder who carries them and how? In packs? laughing
    large-caliber machine guns DShKM with optical sights for night operations

    Okay, but it’s still better to call a thermal imager a thermal imager.
    12-gauge shotguns with cartridges for destroying UAVs at a distance to 500 m

    Wow! They've rolled out the bronze 3-pounders from museums and put them into service? The T-55 sits sadly on the sidelines. laughing
    Otherwise, the entire article is generally consistent with the given excerpt.
    1. man
      -2
      28 September 2025 14: 32
      Who carries them, and how, I wonder? In packs? laughing
      I'd venture to guess that it's in the pockets smile
  15. +4
    28 September 2025 07: 42
    And what will the loss of these refineries cost?
    1. Egg
      +2
      28 September 2025 10: 09
      Quote: Grencer81
      And what will the loss of these refineries cost?

      Who will it cost?
      The owner of his property must first and foremost take care of it!
      1. +2
        28 September 2025 13: 47
        Quote: Telur
        The owner of his property must first and foremost take care of it!
        What a brilliant idea. It's the owner's responsibility to protect his own property from external enemies, right? Will they at least sell him tanks and anti-aircraft guns? And what does he pay taxes for anyway?
        1. +3
          28 September 2025 13: 56
          No, the state should definitely protect these facilities, even if they are in the hands of entrepreneurs. The problem is, the state can't do this for various reasons. It's not ready, it doesn't have the capacity, and it simply doesn't want to admit it's incapable.
        2. Egg
          0
          28 September 2025 17: 58
          Quote: bk0010
          Will they at least sell him tanks and anti-aircraft guns? And what does he pay taxes for anyway?

          Well, the private security companies already have machine guns, body armor, and other equipment, but if they wrap them in nets and install electronic warfare systems around their installations, and there's no money, why would they pay for it from the budget?
          What, haven't they charged us enough for gas? The price hikes and greed of refinery and gas station owners began long before the SVO. They have money for binges in Courchevel, they have money to fly their wives to the States to give birth, they have money to invite celebrities to corporate events, but not to protect their property? The state will pay for the restoration, or the insurance company. Why spend their own hard-earned money, right?
          1. +1
            29 September 2025 13: 58
            Quote: Telur
            Quote: bk0010
            Will they at least sell him tanks and anti-aircraft guns? And what does he pay taxes for anyway?

            Well, the private security companies already have machine guns, body armor, and other equipment, but if they wrap them in nets and install electronic warfare systems around their installations, and there's no money, why would they pay for it from the budget?
            What, haven't they charged us enough for gas? The price hikes and greed of refinery and gas station owners began long before the SVO. They have money for binges in Courchevel, they have money to fly their wives to the States to give birth, they have money to invite celebrities to corporate events, but not to protect their property? The state will pay for the restoration, or the insurance company. Why spend their own hard-earned money, right?


            Fence the Novokuibyshevsky Oil Refinery with a net???

            Its area is about 200 square kilometers with all the additional installations located in the corners.
            It is three times larger in area than Novokuibyshevsk with a population of 100 thousand.
            Should I buy him electronic warfare?
            And what kind of electronic warfare?
            And who will allow it?
            Military equipment.
            Not certified for civilian use.
            Starlink still can't be defeated by any electronic warfare system, you know that?
            And even if they come up with one, how much of this electronic warfare would be needed for an area the size of the cities of Astrakhan and Yaroslavl???
            1. Egg
              0
              29 September 2025 17: 26
              Quote: SovAr238A
              Its area is about 200 square kilometers with all the additional installations located in the corners.

              Yeah, you're saying it's not fenced at all? Come on, I'm sure there are even cameras there. Try entering the grounds and you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
              and there is no need to fence off the entire area, but the installations themselves and individual objects on the territory are quite feasible and can be wrapped in mesh, and it is also possible to install poles with electronic warfare systems.
              And not all facilities have such an area; oil depots and gas stations, for example, are much smaller in area.
              Quote: SovAr238A
              And what kind of electronic warfare?
              And who will allow it?
              Military equipment.
              Not certified for civilian use.

              Come on, what are they installing then? Our city built a hospital for the military, and you can't get past it with a GPS, it shows such crap... They installed it, right? And driving around the city with a GPS is a problem now; taxi drivers who don't know the city are panicking.
              In general, any problem has a solution, if only there is a desire and finances to solve it, those who want to do it, and don’t look for excuses.
              1. 0
                2 October 2025 19: 41
                Quote: Telur
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Its area is about 200 square kilometers with all the additional installations located in the corners.

                Yeah, you're saying it's not fenced at all? Come on, I'm sure there are even cameras there. Try entering the grounds and you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
                and there is no need to fence off the entire area, but the installations themselves and individual objects on the territory are quite feasible and can be wrapped in mesh, and it is also possible to install poles with electronic warfare systems.
                And not all facilities have such an area; oil depots and gas stations, for example, are much smaller in area.
                Quote: SovAr238A
                And what kind of electronic warfare?
                And who will allow it?
                Military equipment.
                Not certified for civilian use.

                Come on, what are they installing then? Our city built a hospital for the military, and you can't get past it with a GPS, it shows such crap... They installed it, right? And driving around the city with a GPS is a problem now; taxi drivers who don't know the city are panicking.
                In general, any problem has a solution, if only there is a desire and finances to solve it, those who want to do it, and don’t look for excuses.


                I have a dacha in Granny. Those who know will understand.
                It's very close to the Novokuibyshevsk Oil Refinery, for those who don't know.
                The Novokuibyshevsk Oil Refinery is easily accessible from all roads, both visually and physically. See the actual map.
      2. -1
        29 September 2025 13: 28
        Quote: Telur
        Quote: Grencer81
        And what will the loss of these refineries cost?

        Who will it cost?
        The owner of his property must first and foremost take care of it!

        And gasoline 92 is already 60 rubles
      3. +3
        29 September 2025 13: 48
        Quote: Telur
        Russia is currently facing a pressing need to settle and develop Siberia and the Far East. Why not use a network of hundreds of mini refineries to spur regional development?


        Let's disband the army and the police?
        And let every citizen take care of his own safety.
        And we will also disband medicine and education.
        So that every citizen can educate themselves and practice self-care – and take care of their own safety...
        Sometimes they come up with such things that you can't help but wonder how someone with such a brain managed to grow up to such an age...
        1. Egg
          -1
          29 September 2025 17: 16
          The quote is not mine, it's not in the right place, but I'll answer.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          Let's disband the army and the police?

          a play on words in the spirit of modern wordplay.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And let every citizen take care of his own safety.

          Is it different for us now?
          Quote: SovAr238A
          And we will also disband medicine and education.

          Medicine and education have long since become paid, people go to free clinics... they prescribe such things... and the qualifications are also at the level of free ones.
          I'm a diabetic, and for three years now they've been prescribing who knows what. There are no imported insulins, they're prescribing the cheapest pills, the list of medications has been shortened, I can't get a referral for treatment at specialized centers for diabetics, and an appointment with an endocrinologist requires three months in advance.
          There are the same problems with pedagogy; education has now been relegated to the category of "Services," and a free service... you understand, while tutors are paid.
          Quote: SovAr238A
          So that every citizen can educate themselves and practice self-care – and take care of their own safety...

          This is happening everywhere right now. Recently, the police raided our parking lots, checking to see if cars were locked. If they weren't, they'd give a fine, precisely for not caring about their own safety. laughing
  16. + 11
    28 September 2025 07: 43
    Remember how they were feeding us nonsense not long ago, saying it was nothing, it was just debris, it wouldn't affect anything, and almost everyone was shot down, it was the enemy trying to spread panic, etc. Yeah. In Voronezh, 92 is already 63.75 rubles this morning. I repeat, 92 (!!!) is 63.75 rubles. I didn't look up the price of 95.
    1. +6
      28 September 2025 08: 49
      You're lucky, here in Nalchik, these were the prices at the beginning of the month. Now it's 69,9 rubles for A92.
      1. -1
        28 September 2025 13: 58
        Yesterday I filled up at Gazprom, Belaya Glina, 92-68 rubles.
        1. -1
          29 September 2025 13: 30
          Quote from: dmi.pris1
          Yesterday I filled up at Gazprom, Belaya Glina, 92-68 rubles.

          In Yekaterinburg, 92nd is still less than 60.
          1. +1
            29 September 2025 14: 29
            Sorry, I was mistaken. 58-10, with a discount. Actually, it's 59-90...
    2. +9
      28 September 2025 09: 37
      Keep voting for United Russia and the Supreme Council, and keep watching the box. Everything will be fine.
      1. -1
        28 September 2025 14: 11
        I don't even vote for them.
      2. man
        -1
        28 September 2025 14: 38
        Quote: cast iron
        Keep voting for United Russia and the Supreme Council, and keep watching the box. Everything will be fine.

        Vote or not, you'll still get it... in short, the price of gasoline won't go down because of this.
      3. -4
        28 September 2025 14: 39
        Quote: cast iron
        Continue voting for United Russia, VVP and watch the box further.

        Who should we vote for then? The liberals?
        1. -1
          28 September 2025 14: 42
          Does religion prevent you from voting for communists?
          1. 0
            28 September 2025 14: 45
            Quote: cast iron
            Does religion prevent you from voting for communists?

            They discredited themselves in the 90s. As for religion, that's not my thing either; I'm not religious.
            1. +1
              28 September 2025 14: 56
              Well then, sit on the couch and don't go anywhere. It's no use anyway.
              1. -1
                28 September 2025 14: 59
                Quote: cast iron
                Well then, sit on the couch and don't go anywhere.

                And I don’t go.
            2. 0
              29 September 2025 20: 42
              They discredited themselves in the 90s.

              I'm embarrassed to ask how? As far as I remember, in the 90s, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation wasn't the ruling party, and the president wasn't a Communist Party representative.
  17. -5
    28 September 2025 07: 52
    They're currently building vertical fuel production units, the kind devised by engineer Shukhov. Previously, horizontal units were used. Perhaps they're easier to protect from attack by enclosing them in concrete shelters. Basically, all regions, territories, areas, and cities know how much fuel they need per month and year. So, mini and midi refineries should be built based on these figures. In reality, such units aren't that complicated and can be mass-produced. They should be owned by regional or city governments, or by independent gas station chains. This is good for competition in the fuel market. hi
    1. -1
      28 September 2025 10: 45
      Quote: V.
      In reality, such installations are not so complicated and can be put into production.

      I would argue here - it is now 1945, the requirements have become more stringent, and the equipment has become more complex, and laboratories for quality control are needed.
      1. -3
        28 September 2025 11: 09
        You see, I generally agree with you. But when gasoline was scarce, people ran on firewood during WWII and later. Chechnya is another example. During the war, people had to travel, so they built micro-refineries in almost every village. And they ran on that gasoline. What quality control? As they say in Odessa, "checkers or drive." hi
        Another question is what capacity these mini refineries need to be? Basically, enough to keep the city going. If fuel supplies to the region are completely cut off, or oligarchs jack up the price of fuel supplied to the region, a small refinery will prevent the city from dying from the loss of public transportation, ambulances, and fire trucks. Even if it's only sold to the public under quotas of, say, 40 liters per week per person. hi
        1. -1
          29 September 2025 00: 10
          Everything would be fine, but the institution of public transport that existed in the USSR has long been lost, and the movement of labor is very problematic, plus the quality of fuel is not Euro 5-6, so it is possible to immediately put a modern car fleet on hold. These are not Muscovites or Zaporozhets.
  18. +2
    28 September 2025 08: 00
    To combat long-range UAVs, there has long been a need for specialized detection and destruction systems mounted on aircraft capable of patrolling vast territories.
    1. -4
      28 September 2025 08: 26
      Quote: S. Viktorovich
      To combat long-range UAVs, specialized equipment has long been needed
      According to then-Minister Shoigu, we've long since learned how to detect and shoot down Bayraktar-type drones. The only problem was, and remains, with disposable small drones.
      1. 0
        28 September 2025 11: 11
        There was and will remain a problem only with disposable small drones.

        Have you even seen the dimensions of the Ukrainian "Bobr" and "Lyuty" tanks? They are identical in weight and dimensions.
      2. +3
        28 September 2025 12: 58
        And according to Shoigu, nothing better than tank biathlon has been invented...
  19. Owl
    +1
    28 September 2025 08: 02
    There's no need to pretend that "no one launches drones from Russian territory against Russian military and industrial facilities." Besides terrorist saboteurs like the Crocus criminals, there are also those who assemble combat kamikaze drones from spare parts and launch them against oil refineries and military facilities. These drones don't reach the Kremlin, so the authorities don't see the need to revive the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the security agency closest to the people, to filter "fellow citizens" who have received citizenship, and to tighten the criminal code for abuse of power and the illegal granting of Russian citizenship.
    1. -1
      28 September 2025 10: 26
      It is necessary to revive the Ministry of Internal Affairs, as the security agency closest to the people, to filter "fellow citizens" who have received citizenship, and to tighten the Criminal Code for abuse of power and the illegal granting of Russian citizenship.

      So, isn't the Ministry of Internal Affairs the one that issues citizenship? Isn't the Federal Migration Service a subdivision of the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
  20. +9
    28 September 2025 08: 16
    According to sources in the Ministry of Defense,...
    12-gauge smoothbore guns with cartridges for destroying UAVs at a distance of up to 500 meters.

    Either the source or the author added a zero...
    It's like I read one explanatory note: "...for the purpose of preventing acute respiratory infections, I drank 100-1500 grams of vodka..."
  21. -8
    28 September 2025 08: 29
    The best thing to do is to de-mothball the Shilka and Tunguska rivers and stick them around the factories.
    1. +7
      28 September 2025 09: 50
      These "Shilkas and Tunguskas" weren't particularly effective even against the F-4 and A-10, which have linear dimensions of about 10 x 10 meters and an RCS of 1-2 square meters on average. Combating drones, which are an order of magnitude smaller, requires different radars and new munitions.
      1. +6
        28 September 2025 11: 28
        Footage of long-range Ukrainian UAVs flying over factories shows:
        - UAV low-flying target with a speed of 160 - 240 km/h
        - the size of the UAV, its flight altitude and its speed allow it to be shot down using machine guns and ZU-23, 30-mm 2A70 and 2A42 autocannons
        - UAVs are detected over Russian territory well in advance, many hours before arrival, the "Carpet" plan is announced, and cellular communications are cut off.
        - It is better to intercept UAVs over uninhabited areas to avoid damaging civilian objects when debris falls. Interception can be carried out by helicopters, Su-25, L-39, Yak-130 (it is necessary to hang containers with autocannons and place them on unpaved airfields along the UAV's approximate flight path, since the target is slow and not maneuverable).
        - UAVs should be intercepted near industrial facilities by mobile air defense groups armed with machine guns mounted in the backs of Gazelles, Sobols, and UAZ pickups, but the primary means of interception should be aircraft-type UAV interceptors with a speed of 300-350 km/s
        - distribute software among the population for transmitting information about spotted UAVs (NF Radar), pay small bonuses for transmitting reliable information
        - create an analogue of Ukrainian programs for tracking air targets
        EPPO, Tablet-Podlet, which collects information from the population, air defense radars, civil aviation control services, etc.
        - deploy a network of tethered aerostats with radars on board at a distance of 100-150 km from the LBS to track the flight of enemy drones
        - assign responsibility to senior air defense officers, mercilessly scold the generals for inaction and allowing enemy UAVs to pass through their areas of responsibility
        -
        1. +4
          28 September 2025 12: 09
          Quote: Cympak
          deploy a network of tethered aerostats with radars on board at a distance of 100-150 km from the LBS to track the flight of enemy drones

          The traffic police's primitive optical cameras are capable of automatically detecting such drones day and night within a radius of at least 8 km. In Moscow alone, we have over 50000 such cameras, which would be enough to create a great wall of optical detection spanning 8 million km. The only thing missing is the will.
        2. +1
          29 September 2025 09: 41
          In this case, the Il-2 would be suitable
          1. -1
            29 September 2025 12: 25
            If we had a mass-produced turboprop combat trainer aircraft, it would be an ideal option for intercepting Ukrainian long-range drones like the Lyuty.
            1. -1
              29 September 2025 12: 37
              Essentially, you can chase them around in helicopters, just like the back-ups. Mi-8s on the sides of the turret.
              1. +3
                29 September 2025 14: 30
                Quote: Clever man
                Essentially, you can chase them around in helicopters, just like the back-ups. Mi-8s on the sides of the turret.

                It's no longer possible to "chase".
                Up to 5 helicopters and 2 Su-30 aircraft have already been lost to the snarling BEKs.
            2. +4
              29 September 2025 14: 29
              Quote: Cympak
              If we had a mass-produced turboprop combat trainer aircraft, it would be an ideal option for intercepting Ukrainian long-range drones like the Lyuty.


              Well, Tucano...
              The very same one that so greatly amused all the idolaters of the MiG-31 and Su-34/35 sect...
              which made the entire Russian patriotic public laugh...

              Which is actually perfectly prepared to shoot down such targets or destroy BEKs.
              Carries all necessary suspended containers with detection, target designation and guidance systems.
              I already have a pair of 12,7 machine guns.
              It can use air-to-air missiles, suspended guns, conventional and new modified laser-guided missiles, specifically for combating UAVs and unmanned aerial vehicles.
        3. +2
          29 September 2025 14: 22
          Quote: Cympak
          Footage of long-range Ukrainian UAVs flying over factories shows:
          - UAV low-flying target with a speed of 160 - 240 km/h
          - the size of the UAV, its flight altitude and its speed allow it to be shot down using machine guns and ZU-23, 30-mm 2A70 and 2A42 autocannons
          - UAVs are detected over Russian territory in advance,
          -


          A flight over the border is detected.
          But the fact is that it is not followed up in any way - that is a fact!
        4. +1
          29 September 2025 16: 47
          The idea is sound, but there's a problem with helicopters and airplanes. I could be wrong, but we only have one school left, the VVAUL, the rest were successfully disbanded in the 90s... So, pilots aren't going to appear out of nowhere. And with equipment, things aren't so simple; the L-39s, for example, have mostly long since disappeared.
      2. 0
        28 September 2025 13: 02
        So, about these Shilkas. In the early 80s, they were deemed ineffective. Against the Apache, for example... Yes, that's true. A large number went to Afghanistan, where they were converted to fire at ground targets. The rest were scrapped in the early 9s. They're gone. There's the Tunguska, but it's problematic. But the Poles modernized their Shilkas.
        1. 0
          2 October 2025 12: 23
          Who recognized it? The Shilka is super-effective; it's no wonder they recently relaunched production of its barrels. It has one drawback: short range and slow reaction time (which is precisely the worst thing for fighting Apaches). Unfortunately, there are few Shilkas left, and even fewer spare parts.
      3. 0
        28 September 2025 20: 12
        So we need to dig up some remote radars and attach Shilkas to them.
        1. 0
          2 October 2025 12: 27
          How's that possible? The Shilka is a thing of the past and only uses its own radar to guide it. You can't pair it with anything else; that's not what it was designed for. And we don't have many Shiloks. I'll let you in on a secret. About 10 years ago, we ran out of barrels for them, and we couldn't make them anymore. We had to gather some old hands and designers together and, with their help, we revived production at one plant, but whether it's still producing them and how many is a secret.
    2. +4
      29 September 2025 14: 21
      Quote: Clever man
      The best thing to do is to de-mothball the Shilka and Tunguska rivers and stick them around the factories.

      People in the know say they ended long ago...
      They are not in storage.
      sold off in the 90s to all sorts of Bantustans for pennies.
      And you can easily believe this; remember what happened with weapons and uniforms in 2022...
      Rusty guns, even mobilized soldiers had to buy uniforms and armor out of their own pockets.
      The loss of one and a half million sets - no? Didn't we have that?
      1. osp
        +2
        29 September 2025 15: 13
        The "Shilkas" may be in storage.
        But their radar system is a vacuum tube based system that has long since been discontinued.
        Without replacing the radar/thermal imager and optical sighting system, it’s a complete loss.
        This means they need to be sent through repair factories, which is troublesome, time-consuming and expensive.
        With the installation of modern sighting systems and a major overhaul.
        Nobody will do this.
        And they are completely useless against the Flamingos and Tomahawks - they could soon fly deep into Russian territory.
        1. 0
          2 October 2025 12: 29
          The Shilka wasn't designed to counter cruise missiles. The MiG-31 would be more effective here. By the way, how are you planning on launching the Tomahawks? Cruise missiles aren't all that dangerous. They're expensive, they're few in number, and they can only be launched from an aircraft.
          1. osp
            0
            2 October 2025 14: 41
            Tomahawks have been able to fly from ground-based launchers for over 40 years—formerly the Griffin, now the Typhon. Simple and cheap.
            The MiG-31 was useless against cruise missiles from the start. Other means were needed.
          2. 0
            2 October 2025 19: 44
            Quote: Victor Sergeev
            The Shilka wasn't designed to counter cruise missiles. The MiG-31 would be more effective here. By the way, how are you planning on launching the Tomahawks? Cruise missiles aren't all that dangerous. They're expensive, they're few in number, and they can only be launched from an aircraft.


            MiG-31 won't help.
            It was tested in exercises a long time ago, back in Soviet times, tested and it was understood that the MiG-31 is not capable of shooting down more than one cruise missile in one sortie.
            And the same B-52 launched 16 pieces.

            So this myth is from stupid pennies.
            1. osp
              0
              2 October 2025 20: 47
              The MiG-31 was designed with an emphasis on intercepting high-altitude SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft and drifting balloons, which the MiG-25 was unable to counter for a number of reasons.
              It was only later, when the Americans stopped using the Drozd, that they came up with the idea for the 31st MiG to intercept cruise missiles.
              Then they came up with it.
              When the Drozdas stopped flying near Sakhalin and the Kola Peninsula, the MiG-31's mission became significantly less important.
              By that time, the Su-27P interceptors had become a standard feature in the air defense regiments, and it had proven itself in terms of the required tasks.
              And balloons were shot down by it.
              And the Drozds were gone - the ceiling and speed of the MiG-31 interceptor were no longer in demand.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. +8
    28 September 2025 09: 20
    That's of course, yeah...
    Especially the internet shutdown. A system like ZabSibNefekhim is available in Tobolsk on all sorts of internet and satellite maps, with all the coordinates. And how would a disconnected internet connection help in this case, when there's an inertial guidance system—it's impossible to miss. And the forest (taiga) is less than a kilometer from the nearest convoys at the Central Gas Facility. He fired an ATGM and disappeared into the forest, even though the convoys are covered with anti-drone nets. The only way out of all this is to eliminate the cause (Country 404) rather than deal with the consequences.
    1. 0
      29 September 2025 13: 42
      Quote: Alex 1970
      That's of course, yeah...
      Especially the internet shutdown. A system like ZabSibNefekhim is available in Tobolsk on all kinds of internet and satellite maps, with all the coordinates. How would a disconnected internet connection help in this case, when you have an inertial guidance system—it's impossible to miss.

      The inertial system MBR, for example, is 200-300 m. With GPS it is 90 m.
      Tomahawk 10m. But who's going to install a Tomahawk inertial system on your drone?
      1. +1
        29 September 2025 17: 35
        See the map with the dimensions of TNKH, and also read the full commentary about the columns and ATGMs.
      2. 0
        2 October 2025 18: 00
        Tomahawks will be arriving soon, don't worry.
    2. 0
      29 September 2025 16: 28
      These are called decision-making centers. We've been hearing about them for so long.
    3. 0
      2 October 2025 12: 31
      The taiga is vast, but there are few paths through it. If only everything were that simple. Only a hunter or a specialist can traverse the taiga; weapons need to be obtained and transported to the nearest settlement; hand-held equipment is heavy and won't allow you to run around the taiga with it.
  24. +8
    28 September 2025 09: 40
    Protecting oil refineries is the Ministry of Defense's problem, not the reason for rising fuel prices. We need to think less about personal enrichment and more about the interests of the state. We have a wonderful historical example: World War I.
    1. 0
      29 September 2025 12: 38
      It's still logical that oil refineries are suffering, gasoline supply is falling, and prices are rising.
    2. +1
      29 September 2025 16: 27
      But then Nikolashka couldn't handle the bourgeoisie. They were ripping off the money on the main contracts, raising the prices several times over. He started banging his fist on the table at the end, but it was too late.
    3. 0
      2 October 2025 12: 32
      This is called a selfish approach. Defense is the entire country's business, and the price of oil is determined by expenditures and revenues.
  25. 0
    28 September 2025 09: 48
    I agree with the author 100%. Although we won't be able to protect factories from hypersonic missiles in a full-scale war. We have hundreds of missiles for each of our factories. Perhaps only deeper deployment will help, and even that's not a given. They also said correctly about Rosnans: one man's war is another man's home. Stealing and running away is our only option. They won't even charge you with a criminal offense if you're one of our own.
  26. +6
    28 September 2025 09: 53
    Here's a picture from a classmate in Karaganda with gasoline from Omsk at their gas station, in our money it's a little over forty rubles, so whoever is talking about a 2 percent profit is lying shamelessly, it's getting more expensive and will continue to get more expensive am
    1. +9
      28 September 2025 10: 24
      Shalom Lecha, as an agent of the Sugurantsy of the Tsipsoshnoy Mogde, I will tell you without equivocation laughing All this is a vile libel. Our gasoline can't cost less there than here. And whoever doesn't believe us but believes them is a fascist mug and a Bandera survivor. tongue
      1. +4
        28 September 2025 14: 02
        Uh...so you're not only Romanian, but also a Japanese spy recruited by the Mossad. laughing
      2. +1
        28 September 2025 15: 51
        Yes, I've been told more than once that I'm a CIPSO member and live somewhere in Ukraine. laughing
      3. -2
        29 September 2025 12: 39
        Yeah, and also Bandera's Privost'ino-agentsky
    2. Aag
      -1
      28 September 2025 11: 47
      Quote: Alex 1970
      Here's a picture from a classmate in Karaganda with gasoline from Omsk at their gas station, in our money it's a little over forty rubles, so whoever is talking about a 2 percent profit is lying shamelessly, it's getting more expensive and will continue to get more expensive am

      In Irkutsk, Omni gas stations are the most expensive. If I'm not mistaken, they're about 65 rubles per liter. The cheapest (as of three days ago) is Rossneft (about 59 rubles per liter).
      Diesel fuel is a separate issue. I don't remember the dates (you can reconstruct them from a photo on my smartphone), but it was sold at all the gas stations for 67 rubles a long time ago (more than a month ago). Oh yeah, in Angarsk, 40 km from Irkutsk, there's their own refinery (imported from Germany in 1945-46... is it still operational?).
      Nowadays diesel fuel is around 70 rubles... And this is summer diesel fuel...
    3. +3
      29 September 2025 16: 55
      There's this thing. I've always wondered why our gasoline is cheaper in Kazakhstan, and even more so in Kyrgyzstan, despite all the shipping costs...
  27. 0
    28 September 2025 09: 55
    Quote: Antony
    I didn't look at how much 95 costs.

    67 in Moscow. Regular, not ecto.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  28. +9
    28 September 2025 10: 05
    The chief military academic's adopted strategy of squeezing out the enemy resulted in a protracted trench war and strikes by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on strategic targets deep in the Russian Federation's rear.
    Without changing the strategy of pushing out and defeating the enemy army, it is impossible to protect all oil refineries and other strategic facilities from air raids, missile strikes, and sabotage.
  29. -7
    28 September 2025 10: 17
    There's no need to make a fuss—we need to increase oil refining depth. Ours is only 85%, while in the US it's 95%. In 2023, Russia produced 5,3 million barrels of petroleum products per day, consuming 2.85 billion barrels. Small refineries can't provide deep refining. Already, 50% of our output is fuel oil and tar. The West has already learned to refine fuel oil into light fuel grades. And we're just getting started—I know of only two facilities in Russia with a refining depth of 95%.
    R.S. At the end of the USSR, the refining depth was a shameful 65% - where did the investment in refining come from when gasoline was cheaper than soda.
    1. +5
      28 September 2025 12: 04
      Quote: tralflot1832
      The West has already learned to refine fuel oil into light grades of fuel. But we're just getting started—I know of only two plants in Russia with a 95% conversion rate.
      R.S. At the end of the USSR, the refining depth was a shameful 65% - where did the investment in refining come from when gasoline was cheaper than soda.

      We also learned to make gasoline from tar around 1946. There's nothing new here. The country's economy, skewed by the Central Bank of the Russian Federation and the Duma, is against any kind of refining. High duties on gasoline exports and negative duties on oil exports don't stimulate refining. Then there's the huge VAT, the huge interest rate on working capital, and the limited standards for including R&D and equipment upgrades in production costs. Add to that the lack of regulation of stock market speculation and capital flight, which sucks all the money out of the real economy into trade and speculation. Under these conditions, no one in their right mind would turn forests into furniture and paper, build factories, or produce anything at all with a profit margin of 5-6% and inflation of 15% caused by a shortage of goods and the greed of currency exporters. Speculation, trading, and going underground are the only options for businesses.
  30. +6
    28 September 2025 10: 20
    author Definitely a credit to you, like Bradbury and Sheckley, and start writing down everything you've written. You're good for another civilization. laughing As they say, what kind of chopping board is what kind of meat grinder)) By the way, our oligarchs have only become richer. Do you understand what I'm getting at?))
  31. + 10
    28 September 2025 10: 30
    Russian oil refining has proven quite vulnerable... The enemy is constantly searching for means and methods... Defense is complex and expensive...

    In the fourth year of the SVO (remember the beginning? Kyiv in three days, demoralized Ukrainian Armed Forces, and all that) - we read articles about the full-blown problems of the vulnerability of the country's enterprises beyond the Urals, thousands of kilometers from the LBS, to Ukrainian air raids.
    And no one is surprised
  32. 0
    28 September 2025 10: 49
    Quote: Scharnhorst
    These "Shilkas and Tunguskas" weren't particularly effective even against the F-4 and A-10, which have linear dimensions of about 10 x 10 meters and an RCS of 1-2 square meters on average. Combating drones, which are an order of magnitude smaller, requires different radars and new munitions.

    Even the ZSU-23-2 is quite effective against a target with a span of 10 meters and a speed of about 100 km/h in a dive, provided it's detected in time. At a range of 1-1,5 kilometers, there's no chance of missing it. Four such launchers effectively cover the airspace of a typical oil refinery. A couple more launchers are needed on tanks with ready-to-use fuel and oil and gas reserves. We could completely solve this problem cheaply until very expensive jet technology becomes available, costing as little as a cruise missile and with a different accuracy. And that would reduce strike effectiveness by tens of times.
    1. +4
      28 September 2025 15: 25
      "You can't defend your homeland with a C grade!"
      At a distance of 1-1,5 km there is no chance of flying.

      A common misconception from the Cold War and the Soviet Union was that the probability of hitting a target with an unguided weapon was lower than that of modern air defense systems deployed in a layered formation. Below are the kill probabilities for the air defense systems discussed, based on available sources. Please note that these data apply to a single target; if there are two, three, or four UAVs in the vicinity of the target, then, according to probability theory, a kill becomes guaranteed.
      1. 0
        28 September 2025 17: 11
        Quote: Scharnhorst
        Please note that this data applies to a single target; if there are 2-3-4 UAVs in the area of ​​the object, then, according to probability theory, defeat becomes guaranteed.

        Did you notice the target's characteristics in the link? I wasn't talking about a jet fighter, but a slowly moving target. There's a ton of time to aim and set the lead. It's not 250 m/s, it's only 40 m/s at maximum, and about 20-30 m/s in cruising mode.
        1. +3
          28 September 2025 17: 52
          You're missing the specifics of UAVs sneaking toward their targets at extremely low altitudes. Their detection range, both by on-duty radar systems and even by target designation by the radar systems of fire systems, is extremely small. This is precisely why they manage to infiltrate the combat formations of the air defense forces near the front line and then through the on-duty radar field of the Aerospace Forces' radar systems with impunity. In 1987, even the high-altitude and high-speed SR-71s didn't risk violating the USSR's border. But Mathias Rust, in a harmless sports plane, penetrated the air defenses near St. Petersburg and then the Moscow District with impunity. He was occasionally observed by radar, visually by radar, and even by fighter jets scrambled against the ground in gaps in the clouds... The result is known. There is no doubt about the reaction time of fire systems to a slow target. The problem is its detection, which is hampered by its small size (as a result, a small RCS) and extremely low altitude (minimum detection radius). hi
    2. -1
      28 September 2025 17: 52
      Generally speaking, that's true. The main problem will be detection and timely transmission of information to the crews. But here's where:
      Quote: goose
      A couple more installations on tanks with ready fuel and oil and gas reserves.

      Did I understand correctly that you are proposing to place "penal battalions" there in order to achieve the following under the threat of imminent death:
      Quote: goose
      reduction in impact efficiency by tens of times.

      laughing
  33. +5
    28 September 2025 11: 04
    The time is ripe to encourage the deployment of a network of small-scale refineries in eastern Russia. The program is complex and expensive, but it will significantly simplify security and make the country's refineries much less accessible.

    Can someone explain how increasing the number of protected facilities simplifies defense? The more points to protect, the thinner the defense, or do you need to build enough mini-factories to avoid destroying them all?
    And another technological issue. There's a whole series of articles on oil refining right here. To increase the depth of oil refining, entire cascades of process units are installed. How can this be accomplished in a mini-refinery? It turns out that such refineries will have lower refining depth, meaning they'll be less cost-effective. Are we going to have to subsidize refinery owners from the budget again?
  34. 0
    28 September 2025 11: 39
    "Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles."
    But it's probably still cheaper than building a new refinery. And how much did the generals in the Ministry of Defense steal anyway? Yes
  35. +2
    28 September 2025 11: 46
    Let's have balloons with nets, like in 1941 - cheap and cheerful!
  36. +8
    28 September 2025 11: 51
    The author has it all planned out perfectly! He just forgot that the refineries are private, not people's, or almost private. And the oil market in our country has long been divided. Therefore, there won't be any mini-refineries that the "caring hand of the Leader" will first develop and then shut down! Only if the existing ones are completely destroyed will those same oligarchs get itchy and build mini-refineries, where fuel will sell for two or three times more, again according to the laws of the market.
  37. +1
    28 September 2025 12: 15
    There are two ways to protect the refinery (and everything else). And they should be pursued simultaneously. First, we need to develop a REALLY EFFECTIVE active defense against drones. The current tricks of throwing nets and ramming drones, as well as "electromagnetic guns," are a shameful pastime, incapable of producing any significant results. Is the level of military development really so disgraceful? Or is every penny allocated for development being stolen? Even during wartime?!
    The second option is to stop marking time. Capturing truly large swathes of enemy territory is more urgent than ever.
  38. +2
    28 September 2025 13: 08
    Ukraine is currently actively developing a mini-air defense system. It's a small radar and a couple of crews armed with high-speed FPV drones. Cheap and effective. It can even be done without a radar; detection by optical and thermal imaging cameras can be relied upon. Even our greedy oligarchs could afford a couple of crews for each oil refinery. The problem is purely administrative. It's prohibited by the state.
  39. -3
    28 September 2025 13: 21
    Ukrainian drone strikes on Russian oil refineries have had a tangible effect – gasoline sales are being rationed in a number of regions. (C) In which specific regions are gasoline rationed at gas stations? How much is dispensed per customer, and how is it monitored?
  40. 0
    28 September 2025 13: 50
    The further drones penetrate into Russia, the more difficult it is to detect them.
    You can catch signals by distortion in cellular networks. I don't know the details.
    It is possible that in order to organize an even more effective defense, it will be necessary to create a separate geostationary satellite constellation in orbit.
    The altitude there is about 40 thousand km. They won't see anything.
  41. +2
    28 September 2025 15: 09
    Unfortunately, our government's focus on rubles, even the country's survival. That's why they couldn't care less about the oil refineries. They even have the excuse that they're private, so why protect them? Besides, thanks to the Central Bank and Putin's idiotic policies, the economy is overheated, and without fuel, it will quickly cool down. It seems the economy is still developing (or, more accurately, not developing today) according to Chubais's precepts.
  42. +6
    28 September 2025 15: 11
    Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles.

    What if you don’t steal or kick back?
  43. +7
    28 September 2025 15: 14
    "12-gauge smoothbore shotguns with cartridges for engaging UAVs at a distance of up to 500 meters."
    I didn't read the rest of the article)))
  44. +3
    28 September 2025 15: 15
    There had long been plans to build a large oil refinery in the Far East. But the economic bloc nixed all those ideas. There was a well-developed project for both export and domestic consumption.
  45. +1
    28 September 2025 16: 44
    Really? The Kremlin's oligarchic bravado, with hundreds of billions of dollars in its accounts, is howling about expensive air defense systems to protect oil refineries.
    Or maybe they want to transfer 50% of the illegally obtained excess profits to the state budget. That would be very fair, and then the Ministry of Defense could be held accountable for protecting oil refineries and other strategic facilities.
    1. +3
      28 September 2025 18: 05
      Quote: assault
      Or maybe they want 50% of illegal transfer the excess profits received to the state budget

      There is no illegally obtained excess profits. Everything is within the law. adopted by the state.
  46. BAI
    +3
    28 September 2025 16: 45
    1.
    There's a type of engineering structure called a mini refinery. These plants are typically divided into two classes: those with a capacity of up to 20 tons per year and those with a capacity of up to 100 tons. To be fair, the government doesn't particularly encourage such construction—there are only 80 mini refineries in the country, which collectively produce about 11,5 million tons. The statistical arithmetic doesn't quite match the classification—80 mini refineries can't produce that much oil, but apparently some of them have increased their capacity beyond 100 tons.

    At one time, all of Chechnya was dotted with such factories.
    2. Any of the 40 operating oil refineries can afford to organize its own "air defense" - 10-20 crews on pickup trucks with a machine gun and anti-aircraft searchlight each, a crew of 3-4 people.
    3. Another option is to raise networks around the oil refinery using balloons.
    1. +2
      28 September 2025 20: 59
      This idea is wrong. These bullets are capable of killing a person even at full speed. Consider other options: cheaper and more reliable.
      .
      Private drivers with machine guns aren't allowed to drive around. So, either conscripts or change the laws.
      .
      No-fly zones, where everything must be shot down, must again be established by legal means.
      .
      There are still a lot of points and many better ideas...
    2. +3
      28 September 2025 21: 06
      And carry the icon around the oil refinery.
  47. +6
    28 September 2025 16: 52
    I'm seeing a lot of debate in the comments about how to organize defense more cheaply. From "a Shilka missile system for every oil refinery" to "the cheapest and most reliable defense is our tanks on their airfields."
    But I see no one's even asked the question. Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper not to start a self-defense system? Just a question!
    After all, even before the Second Military Operation, we had a ton of internal problems that could have benefited from some funding. You know, little things like education and healthcare. Or, if things were heading toward conflict... modernizing the army. For the first two years of the Second Military Operation, volunteers had to chip in to buy hunting and civilian radios for the military because the Ministry of Defense couldn't provide enough supplies. Should I also remind you about first aid kits and body armor?
    1. +5
      28 September 2025 18: 15
      If the refineries had owners, then they could probably also somehow participate in protecting their property.
      1. +2
        28 September 2025 21: 07
        Exactly! Let them run around the tanks with a gun!
      2. +1
        28 September 2025 21: 19
        From the "Mine Division" TG feedback bot (Maksim "Mina" Klimov) https://t.me/ASWman/44784:
        🇧🇷
        Hello, I read your message about the strikes on oil refineries and the culpability of their owners for the defenselessness of their facilities. It doesn't reflect current reality in any way. I work at a similar facility, and the organization purchased and installed everything it could within the framework of our legislation at its own expense. Thus, anti-drone structures with networks worth tens of millions of rubles were installed around all the facilities, electronic warfare stations were installed, shelters and firing positions were erected. All this was done by the workers themselves, using rented equipment, and with emergency funds.
        Why did it take so long? Because any unauthorized construction on the site is an additional reason for Rostekhnadzor fines and an additional source of danger.
        However, what good are these measures if security guards only have smoothbore weapons, and only the National Guard can activate electronic warfare? The state doesn't provide any means of self-defense. I believe that if air defense can't provide cover for rear-line targets, then security organizations in the fuel and energy sector should be empowered to organize their own defenses, rather than fined for improperly installed nets (which, by the way, are hard to find). These organizations gain nothing from these strikes; on the contrary, they have to rebuild, gathering specialists and resources bit by bit...
        1. +2
          28 September 2025 21: 39
          We need to switch key industries from a peaceful to a military security regime, rather than playing the game of "we're not at war."
  48. +8
    28 September 2025 18: 11
    1. For decades, propaganda has been touting the world's best air defense system, unparalleled in its capabilities, and everyone has accepted this as fact. The reality, however, has proven to be completely different, leaving people who were convinced our air defense was impenetrable completely confused.
    2. To prevent the bombing of oil refineries, it would be sufficient to intercept drones on the border between Ukraine and Russia. Controlling a border 1000-1500 km wide is much easier than installing air defense systems on every oil refinery. However, for some reason, this isn't happening. Drones easily fly 1000-1500 km, and sometimes even further, and hit targets on Russian territory.
  49. +8
    28 September 2025 18: 29
    The second oil will pay for everything anyway! No one will sell their yacht to buy stupid anti-drone systems!
  50. +3
    28 September 2025 19: 50
    Is it really that difficult to protect oil refineries (not all of them are located in the European part of the country, only 18) with at least one or two "Pantsir" missiles, reinforced with several heavy machine guns? The Ukrainian Armed Forces launch several dozen drones a day (some of which will be disabled by electronic warfare). Therefore, the Ukrainian Armed Forces won't be able to overload their defenses. This doesn't require hundreds of thousands of people or large quantities of weapons. Some oil refinery facilities could potentially be moved underground.
    1. +1
      28 September 2025 21: 41
      Quote: Andrey A
      Is it really that difficult to cover oil refineries, if desired (and not all of them are located in the European part of the country, only 18 of them) with at least 1-2 "shells",

      And what will Moscow be covered with, the generals on Frunzenskaya Embankment?
  51. -2
    28 September 2025 20: 16
    Moral of the story: it's cheaper to win.
    .
    Place an order with Severstal for 10 million shells per month (it has the capacity to produce 30 million six-inch shells per month). Nabiullina should pay for the order in dollars from reserves.
    .
    Buying all the components for quadcopters in China would cost approximately $3 billion a year.
    .
    Finally, invest in real combat robots to reduce manpower losses. Designing them without embezzlement would require no more than tens of millions of dollars. And then, for defense, we'll need about 10,000 of them per year at roughly $1000-$10,000. For a successful offensive, 300 to 1,000 units would be enough, but only at one time.
  52. +7
    28 September 2025 20: 53
    It's strange to talk about protecting Russian oil refineries in the fourth year of the war. Are they still unprotected? And if they're unprotected, why is that? Or maybe the enlightened energy managers don't have the money again. This situation with protecting the oil refineries is reminiscent of the situation in the Kursk border region. Everyone's been talking so much about protecting it. And then suddenly... Ukrainians They came in a crowd and seized the culprit. They found the former governor and his accomplices to be the scapegoats. But that's not the main thing; where are the military, the FSB, and the National Guard? The same thing happened with the oil refinery—why are critical infrastructure facilities unprotected? What's the reason?
  53. 0
    28 September 2025 20: 55
    It's a blessing that the Ukrainians are so stupid and still can't create a counter-drone defense. I'll follow the author of the article and not offer any specific proposals. Although it's all so simple...
  54. +4
    28 September 2025 21: 05
    And this product isn't ground? Quote:
    On May 17-18, 2023, the National Guard aviation forces and the sector for interaction with the Russian National Guard of the Synodal Department for Interaction with the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement Agencies conducted overflights with the miraculous icon of St. Seraphim of Sarov over territories of the Russian Federation located in the zone of potential threat from enemy unmanned aerial vehicles.
    https://www.patriarchia.ru/article/81449
    Maybe try again?
  55. +3
    28 September 2025 21: 30
    Quote from: mad-max78
    For decades, propaganda has been telling stories about the best air defense system in the world, unparalleled, and everyone has accepted this as fact.

    In fact, this poses a serious threat to the country's overall defense capability. If we can't intercept single unmanned aerial vehicles flying over our territory for hours at speeds of around 200 km/h, how will we intercept hundreds of cruise missiles like JASSM, ALCM, and Tomahawk? NATO has every right to conclude that our air defenses are completely "paper-thin" and attempt a preemptive, disarming strike with cruise missiles against our nuclear deterrent and early warning system. The Ukrainians have already managed to strike an early warning radar in Armavir, as well as strategic bombers, which is one component of the nuclear deterrence triad. For such a move, our overseas "Western partners" would probably have staged a demonstrative "exterminatus" long ago.
  56. +4
    28 September 2025 21: 55
    The crews will not be traveling with the DShK throughout Bashkiria and Tatarstan?

    If they don't happen now, they probably won't happen later either.
  57. 0
    28 September 2025 22: 58
    Fedorov, it won't cost that much!

    One oil refinery requires five groups of three pickups each: one with a radar, one with a heat-control system, and one with automatic weapons and its own UAVs.

    That's all. How many refineries do we have? 20? 60 machines and no people to find?
  58. 0
    28 September 2025 23: 30
    The crews will not be traveling with the DShK throughout Bashkiria and Tatarstan?
    +++++++++++


    Uncle Petya, is that you? (C)

    I won't lose the police with machine guns in the cities! They won't be carrying pistols for patrol duty!

    Let's all disarm!

    Why travel around Tatarstan if the factories are in specific locations?
  59. +2
    28 September 2025 23: 45
    I wouldn't be surprised if this comment doesn't go through.
    but still!
    They say the union was destroyed!
    And who destroyed it!?
    Yes, they destroyed it themselves!
    There was no one to hold it, so it fell apart!
    Where to transport the oil refinery?
    To add extra markups for additional transfers?
    Oh well.
    Let's evacuate Moscow, Peter, everything valuable.
    what's next?
    Where is the fight against Nazism?
    where is the victory of friendship between peoples?
    So the front has been with your plogs for a long time now, it has been approaching since the 50s!
    paranoia?
    Yes, even Cervantes' Don Quixote fought with Evil, and now we are bringing him blood money with a happy smile on our faces!
    Every self-respecting person knows what they're sniffing at in 404 - but what's going on here?
    everyone drags it into their own hole, and shakes with happiness when they manage to steal it from the “common” one!
    Who should we fight with then?

    I don't know why I wrote this, but the text of the article is not suitable for more sensible reviews.
    The report is finished.
  60. 0
    29 September 2025 09: 53
    We need to act like the Jews - "mow down" air defense, energy and logistics.
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. 0
    29 September 2025 10: 38
    Comrade's suggestion is correct! We should all pack up and flee to Eastern Siberia! Or better yet, send the leader and his gang to Magadan, so the enemy can't get them with drones. Of course, we could simply eliminate the Ukrainian terrorists instead, but Abramovich won't allow it. It's been four years since we've been able to liberate a third of the Donetsk region, despite the titanic efforts of even the smartest commanders like Shoigu.
  63. +1
    29 September 2025 11: 16
    Protecting Russian oil refineries

    This is where balloons capable of hovering for hours or even days and monitoring the air situation near the facility, as well as a VNOS service, would be very useful. Combined with mobile air defense units, this could provide effective protection for our oil facilities from air attack.
  64. 0
    29 September 2025 12: 27
    use a network of hundreds of mini refineries

    What nonsense, we'd be better off building a carousel park in Bishkek.
  65. -2
    29 September 2025 13: 06
    Subsequently, new production facilities became a powerful driver of development on the eastern borders.


    Where is the guarantee that UAVs won't fly from Kazakhstan across the entire oil and gas infrastructure located beyond the Urals?

    It would be simpler and more correct to protect the 32 existing oil refineries from attacks
    Drones than building hundreds of the same unprotected mini-refineries.

    Batteries of several PANTSIR-SMD-E air defense systems, coupled with electronic warfare systems, will cover the skies over all oil refineries in Russia, and this will be no more expensive than repairs and
    restoration of damaged UAV factories + lost profits during the downtime of these factories....
  66. -1
    29 September 2025 13: 28
    Each unit consists of 10 to 20 fighters, organized into teams of 3-5 people,

    There's no need to drive tens of thousands of people around the country in jeeps with large-caliber automatic weapons. We need to establish mass production of Pantsir-type automatic air defense systems, but make them as simple and inexpensive as possible. And deploy them randomly throughout the country, regularly changing their locations. That's how Moscow is currently defending itself against drones.
  67. +4
    29 September 2025 14: 43
    short-range anti-aircraft guns, such as the portable ZU-23-2

    Author, you'll be exhausted carrying it. And as for a 12-gauge shotgun at 500 meters... It's a gem upon a gem.
  68. +1
    29 September 2025 16: 25
    Well, let it be so. The Oligaohi will chip in. For them, it's just a piece of cake.
  69. 0
    29 September 2025 17: 29
    Maybe it would be cheaper to deploy PANTSIR missiles along the Ukrainian border every 30 km in a staggered pattern? A total of about 100 systems would be needed.
    1. +1
      30 September 2025 15: 34
      Quote: Elena Bashkatova
      Maybe it would be cheaper to deploy PANTSIR missile systems along the Ukrainian border every 30 km in a staggered pattern? A total of about 100 systems would be needed.

      The land border is at least 800 km, plus the Black Sea and launches from remote platforms—trucks passing by the ship. We won't need 30 Pantsirs; 500 would be good enough.
  70. +1
    29 September 2025 17: 43
    Restoring is more expensive. Moreover, the restoration will also be done with public money. It's better to protect in advance and against the non-zero probability of future wars. We can begin modernizing production in advance—distributing them to areas farther apart. Burying some things. Building on top of others. We need to get moving, not wait for the devil to bite.
  71. +5
    29 September 2025 18: 02
    The country is governed by manual labor, a system of rosy reports, and officials who are irresponsible and lack initiative. The system isn't working. And the higher-ups don't want to hear anything unpleasant. And the State is slapping on one ban after another. It's simply astounding how ineffective our government is. Maybe AI will replace them? Or will God take pity on us and govern us?
    1. +1
      30 September 2025 15: 36
      Quote: shreiner
      The system is not working.

      The system works, you just don't see its purpose. Look at the growing wealth of the oligarchs and their numbers. The system is doing a great job. It's just that you and I aren't its priorities.
  72. DO
    +3
    29 September 2025 18: 06
    We read the title:
    Protecting Russian oil refineries will cost hundreds of billions of rubles.


    Quote from the text of the article:
    If the threat is to be treated as more than just a momentary event, now is the time to encourage the deployment of a network of small-scale refineries in eastern Russia. The program is complex and expensive, but it will significantly simplify defenses and make the country's refineries much less accessible.
    (…)
    As an example, here are the requirements for the construction of a modern mini oil refinery:
    "For a mini-plant with a capacity of 100 tons/year, a tank farm of 15000 m3 (consisting of vertical tanks), a truck loading facility for 8 trucks and a railway overpass for 10 cars, with auxiliary infrastructure (fire extinguishing system, treatment facilities, boiler room, flare, etc.), a minimum plot size of 9,0 hectares is required, provided that it is of a regular shape (300 * 300 or 200 * 450) and the railway siding runs along one of the short sides at the edge of the plot."
    To guarantee the avoidance of the fuel losses currently associated with the Central Military District, 100–200 such refineries would be needed in regions inaccessible to UAVs. Logic dictates that such a large fleet of oil refineries could become part of the country's mobilization resource. The tactic of targeting refineries has clearly proven its effectiveness, and it will certainly be in demand in future conflicts. Therefore, when the Central Military District ends in victory and the threat subsides, albeit temporarily, the refineries could be mothballed for difficult times and included in the mobilization program.

    That is, the article is not about PROTECTING EXISTING REFINERY PLANTS, but about CONSTRUCTING NEW REFINERY PLANTS (no matter which ones).
    Hence the absurd figure of hundreds of billions of rubles in the headline, supposedly for the PROTECTION of oil refineries. After all, if you don't read the article, you wouldn't realize that the author included in this price the construction of 100-200 NEW mini-refineries.
    Frankly, it seems like the author is opening the Overton window—with his speculative headline (which many don't read beyond) the author is preparing readers for sky-high gasoline and diesel prices.
  73. +1
    29 September 2025 18: 12
    Quote: Alex 1970
    Here's a picture from a classmate in Karaganda with gasoline from Omsk at their gas station, in our money it's a little over forty rubles, so whoever is talking about a 2 percent profit is lying shamelessly, it's getting more expensive and will continue to get more expensive am

    Damn, I wish I hadn't read this. Totally upsetting. 270-275 tenge is 41 rubles... I don't even remember when we had this kind of money.
    1. +1
      30 September 2025 15: 37
      Excise duties = taxes. That's the difference.
  74. +1
    29 September 2025 19: 13
    As a rule, military actions (wars), IN "WHITE GLOVES", against a real ENEMY, and with the observance of all the rules of political "sanitary" (we shoot here, but not there) and diplomatic "politess", last for years, ending, as a rule, either in ornate "agreements" or strange "truces", where no one is undefeated or victors, which is very typical for warring states of ONE socio-economic system... If we "look" at the situation with the SVO from a banal "point of view": Russia is at war with states that "form a friendly family of capitalist states", a "member of the family", of which, recently, Russia has also become (only they are very "embarrassed" to announce this to us from the "high" offices, but the population guesses due to the remnants of Soviet "smartness"), with all the ensuing consequences (private property, the presence of "aligarhate" and "expansion" Thieving bureaucracy at all levels of power, rampant corruption, the formation of a "fifth column," the complete de-ideologization of society, the destruction of all moral and ethical principles in society, the decline of morals, upbringing, education, and culture, mass "indifference," and the absence of a coherent national idea, the presence of "mercantile" interests and connections of certain groups of the "population" with the ENEMY and on its territory)... And the role of defenders of domestic oil refineries, first and foremost, should be played by their OWNERS, with the organizational and technical participation of the State... And there is no need to explain to the Orthodox that the SVO envisioned enemy strikes deep into the rear areas of Russia, its borderlands, against important strategic, cultural, and social facilities of the civilian sector...
  75. +1
    29 September 2025 22: 46
    Gasoline, as the author said, is a minor issue for solving SVO's problems, meaning it's not a priority. Small refineries have low refining depth, so we'll bury the chemical industry by shutting down large plants, and chemicals are the foundation of virtually all other industries.
  76. P
    +1
    29 September 2025 22: 57
    I can understand a lot of this, but guys, this is just a disgrace.
    such as Portable ZU-23-2 or modernized analogues, large-caliber machine guns DShKM with optical sights for nightly operations, smoothbore 12-gauge shotguns with cartridges for hitting UAVs at a distance of up to 500 meters.
    no one even bothered to read it
    1. +2
      30 September 2025 01: 40
      What's wrong, exactly? It's a normal VO. Fun and lively. The main thing is, more letters.
  77. +2
    30 September 2025 01: 36
    Another rant... What Kords/Utes/ZUs/shotguns are there to protect oil refineries and the like? Once again, for the generation of dogs, the Unified State Exam, and TikTok combined: if a khokhlotarantas can easily fly from khokh_land to Bashkiria and Saratov, that's not a hole in the air defense system. It's a corridor. A huge one. And if it continues to exist... And not just one, but wherever you want... My darkest thoughts...
  78. 0
    30 September 2025 10: 01
    Almost all Russian oil refineries are privately owned. If the owner can't protect their own business, what's the point? Either change the owner or nationalize it! But there's no point in wasting the budget or raising prices because of a negligent owner! If that's not the case, then the system is pointless!
    1. 0
      1 October 2025 19: 52
      Dear "Electric," aka (Alexander)! It's worth remembering the country we live in—one where state-oligarchic capitalism has triumphed, with all that entails. The budget is being spent and "sawed up," as befits a capitalist country, and no one will "touch" the refinery owner, since everything is "seized and paid for." Fuel prices, however, can be manipulated.
    2. -1
      3 October 2025 13: 04
      The owners of the oil refineries are cunning capitalists and they have long since insured their assets with their own insurance companies...
      So now they are receiving double profits from the increase in fuel prices and from the Russian Federation budget for oil refinery repairs...
  79. +1
    30 September 2025 10: 24
    In general, a country's defense capability, armed forces, and military-industrial complex are incredibly expensive. It's possible to live without them, but the time commitment is very short.
  80. -3
    30 September 2025 15: 33
    I propose the most stupid solution possible: build a wall or a metal fence, or some other inexpensive barrier, near the oil refinery, facing the dangerous direction, which is where the UAV would hit.
    I think it's a lot cheaper than the plans posted here.
    1. 0
      1 October 2025 20: 02
      There's a theory—a supposition—that all these "night doves" heading toward Russia, its hinterlands, are being launched from within Russia itself... Detecting such "dovecotes" is difficult and costly... By definition, it's impossible to station an Investigative Committee officer on every square kilometer of Russian territory...
    2. 0
      1 October 2025 20: 11

      multicaat (Serge), I think that various "stupid solutions" will not be needed if "Martial law" is declared in a country at war, and then "mechanisms", rules and laws come into effect that exclude bureaucratic lawlessness and philistine "indifference" and general "relaxation" with dancing, singing, forums, conferences, competitions for thoroughbred "trotters" and young talents.... And so, we live, not feeling our own land beneath us....
      1. 0
        6 October 2025 22: 35
        Quote from nordscout
        "Martial law", and then the "mechanisms" come into effect,

        Keep in mind... under the Supreme Court, you won't be able to sit in chat rooms criticizing the government. You'll be doing so in completely different places.
  81. 0
    1 October 2025 10: 41
    Building a mini-plant would cost 100 billion rubles (in populated areas, not in the far north), ideally three years, and require 2 to 3000 qualified people. And logistics would need to be smart, so you don't have to haul fuel 3 km later.
    1. 0
      1 October 2025 20: 23
      Dear "realist" (Alexander Lebedev), all these mini-refineries (colloquially known as "samovars") are a direct path to the destruction of petrochemicals as such and the quality of fuels and lubricants, in particular... We simply need QUALITY control over their activities (refineries), state planning as such... And then, we will be happy... But under the current socio-economic system in Russia, this is unlikely, so we will continue to observe what we are seeing....
      1. 0
        2 October 2025 08: 56
        I'm not advocating for building a mineral oil refinery, I'm advocating for thinking first! Then finish off the outskirts using the Israeli recipe, and then live happily!
        1. +1
          2 October 2025 13: 23
          Dear realist (Alexander Lebedev)! I ​​understand your point regarding the oil refinery, but regarding the "fraternal outskirts," following the "Israeli scenario"—we need political will and a tough line, and it seems we're not quite there yet. Although, it's not over yet.
          1. 0
            2 October 2025 14: 27
            That's the right approach, fraternal outskirts! Lenin's decree on the creation of Ukraine must be repealed and Ukraine must be completely and irrevocably decommunized! I've been for it since 2014!
            1. 0
              6 October 2025 22: 31
              Quote: realist
              Lenin on the creation of Ukraine

              I would like to read Lenin's decree on the creation of the UPR in 1917 and the UNRS in 1918...
              1. 0
                7 October 2025 09: 36
                https://topwar.ru/193204-kak-bolsheviki-sozdali-ukrainu.html

                https://tsargrad.tv/articles/kak-rozhdalas-ussr-kak-proishodil-nacionalnyj-raskol-i-nasilstvennaja-ukrainizacija_330793
          2. 0
            6 October 2025 22: 32
            Quote from nordscout
            Israeli scenario"

            Has Israel already won?
        2. 0
          6 October 2025 22: 33
          Quote: realist
          Israeli recipe

          And Israel defeated Hamas and cleared Palestine???
          1. 0
            7 October 2025 09: 39
            Yesterday, some person from Hamas said on TV that Hamas does not have the strength and means for a war with Israel.
    2. P
      0
      2 October 2025 00: 30
      I don't know anything about building factories, but I do know that projects that started with "hire 4 specialists" were shut down at the "hire" stage. These are big projects.
      1. 0
        2 October 2025 08: 58
        Of course, you need to start with a feasibility study, then a design, then financing - and only then hire. It's bad that you don't know anything about building factories. The topic is very interesting, extensive, and familiar.
        1. P
          0
          2 October 2025 23: 10
          That's how it was in general, in the industry the main assets are entirely made up of specialists, that's why the question about them arose as a decisive one where to put the flag (the flag was not put in the Russian Federation)
          1. 0
            3 October 2025 08: 21
            I don't understand the relationship between fixed assets and specialists. They're different! Fixed assets are initially concrete, steel, and other components. To become fixed assets, they need to be assembled into a single unit, commissioned, and put into operation...
            I don't understand at all what flag you're talking about
            1. P
              0
              4 October 2025 14: 40
              For clarity, you can interpret this as "the main part of the capital by value." The project was implemented in another country, and the consequences of this are covered in the news on this resource.
  82. +1
    1 October 2025 11: 51
    But such solutions are good in regions under martial law.

    Until martial law is declared nationwide, no amount of industrial "smearing" will help. To win a war, you must first at least start fighting.
    1. DO
      +1
      1 October 2025 20: 20
      Marlin, that makes sense.
      .............................
  83. 0
    2 October 2025 12: 21
    Detection systems are needed, such as sound systems like those used during WWII, and destruction can be achieved with cannons or light aircraft. The targeting is standard—covering the area by 30 degrees. But it's still necessary to seal the border and develop specialized drone fighters, like the I-15 from the 30s—inexpensive, capable of speeds up to 400 km/h, maneuverable, and armed with heavy machine guns.
  84. 0
    4 October 2025 07: 45
    About 8,000 poles with mobile devices have been installed in 404 for a long time now... Where there's only one task - listening to the surrounding space. Apparently, the algorithms only highlight the noise of low-flying missiles and drones. Then they obtain maps of the devices' flight paths and draw conclusions. Should we try this?
    1. 0
      6 October 2025 22: 28
      Quote: RoninO
      Maybe try this?

      And how does it help them?
  85. 0
    4 October 2025 10: 42
    If the threat is to be treated as more than just a momentary event, now is the time to encourage the deployment of a network of small-scale refineries in eastern Russia. The program is complex and expensive, but it will significantly simplify defenses and make the country's refineries much less accessible.

    Is it possible to split one large refinery into a dozen or more smaller ones, maximizing the available equipment? That would probably be cheaper.
    It is likely that it will simplify oil refining and reduce the required equipment.
    Finally, is it possible to move valuable equipment underground in caves or tunnels?
  86. 0
    4 October 2025 12: 43
    And how much does it cost to protect the Country and the Population? Doesn't anyone care?!
  87. 0
    6 October 2025 22: 27
    Quote: Cympak
    The Verkhovna Rada during the vote on the introduction of martial law

    You are suggesting that we fight against people when we are fighting against the system...
  88. 0
    7 October 2025 08: 40
    According to estimates from a week ago, 38% of processing capacity was disabled. I'm beginning to suspect that this is the plan: to hold out a little longer. When there's nothing left to protect, the issue will disappear. And billions will be saved!
  89. -1
    11 October 2025 22: 00
    The elite is unable to protect its own wallet, let alone ordinary citizens of Kursk and Donetsk.
  90. 0
    20 October 2025 14: 39
    Digitalization, or more precisely neural networks, must save the day. A highly accurate digital terrain map must be created at a certain depth along the entire front and the border with Ukraine. Everything necessary for this is in place—the appropriate aircraft and laser scanners. Then, specially trained "electronic machines" will map the most likely routes of enemy drones.


    The only question is, where have they all been for four years? Or were they conducting real-life experiments to see if they'd make it to the oil refinery or not?