Looking to the Future: Anti-Drone Ideas for Armored Vehicles

13 586 76
Looking to the Future: Anti-Drone Ideas for Armored Vehicles
A protective complex from the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant


The thought does not stand still


The challenges that a special military operation presents to engineers and designers are difficult to overestimate. Drones They have revolutionized the battlefield, effectively displacing armored vehicles from the front. A simple reconnaissance and strike system, consisting of a surveillance UAV and several FPV drones, is capable of disabling even the most advanced combat vehicles. This is true for operations on both sides of the front. It is largely the work of these drone crews that has led to the front in the west moving much more slowly than most observers would have liked.



The military's tactical response has been the famous anti-drone nets, boxes, grates, and other devices assembled on-site from scrap materials. Apparently, such makeshift solutions are quite effective, otherwise the military would never have adopted such innovations. As a result, protecting equipment from drones has become one of the most pressing tasks of the Russian engineering corps. To be fair, no domestic design bureau has yet come up with an effective defense against FPV drones. Therefore, one has to either settle for homemade solutions or turn to the patent office. As it turns out, many interesting solutions have emerged recently that are worthy of discussion.






One of the new trends in armored vehicle protection is flexible elements—cables, ropes, and even simple wires hanging down toward the munition. These elements limit turret rotation and gun aiming. One patent from 2025 proposes a simplified mounting system for a cluster of lances, forming a radial hemispherical shape. While this looks quite exotic from the outside, the author believes it is a "utility model related to means of protecting objects from the destructive effects of UAVs of various types, in particular, means of protecting civilian and special military vehicles (medical, repair, transport), naval surface drones from enemy combat assets, as well as for protecting stationary objects—buildings and structures, towers and masts, fortifications, fences, etc." Bundles of lances on the protected object allow for the rejection of approaching drones, as well as their warheads—grenades and mines. More precisely:

"The radial, hemispherical shape of the protective device ensures that the spikes hit the drone's moving blades, even when the propellers are equipped with protective shrouds. The spikes are rigid enough to cause destruction or damage to the propeller blades, leading to a deflection of the drone's trajectory and its detonation at a distance from the protected surface or vehicle body."





The active defense system includes a compact turret equipped with a basic drone-killing kit: radar, video camera, thermal imager, lidar, and a multi-barreled rocket launcher. To completely guarantee the destruction of the "birds," the patent's author decided to include an automatic target tracker. While it looks beautiful on paper, in reality it looks more like a set from Star Wars. Even if all this equipment could be assembled and made to function at least somewhat, the cost of this solution would be prohibitive. Radar, thermal imager, and lidar (laser radar) all in one! Meanwhile, Russia hasn't yet mastered the art of making compact lidars. However, the patent does have one advantage: it seems this is exactly what truly effective anti-FPV solutions will look like in the future. No other options are currently available.

Time for difficult decisions


A solution from the Order of Kutuzov Military Engineering Academy named after Hero of the Soviet Union, Lieutenant General of the Engineering Troops D.M. Karbyshev, deserves special attention. It is called the Anti-Drone Engineering Barrier System. The first version uses fixed cylindrical guides in the launchers, designed to deploy nets. The second modification uses a launch mechanism for the barrier engineering system, mounted on a rotating base with a mechanism for adjusting the launcher's elevation angle. It is equipped with a container containing barrier engineering projectiles, with the option of remotely programming the detonation.




1 - cylindrical guide of the launch shaft;
2 - welded bracket;
3 - plug cover of the cylindrical guide of the launch shaft;
4 - remote radar station;
5 - portable electronic computer;
6 - connecting wires for starting control, equipped with protective armored bushings;
7 - power grid of the IZK;
8 - distribution box for starting control connecting wires.
Schematic diagram of the control system during production in Version 2 (Fig. 3):
9 - automatic starting device IZK;
10 - rotary platform with a device for changing the elevation angle of the launcher
IZK machine gun;
11 - remote radar station;
12 - a store with fire alarm systems located inside;
13 - portable electronic computer;
14 - connecting wires for starting control, equipped with protective armored bushings;
15 - power grid of the IZK;
16 - distribution box for starting control connecting wires;
17 - special installation platform (machine) IZK.





When a small object is detected within the radar system's range, the computer's display shows its movement characteristics: distance, speed of movement, altitude, bearing, and the predicted route, taking into account variations in these parameters. Additionally, the computer's monitor displays warning areas for potential threats, divided into segments, as the object approaches. tank or other equipment, the signals to the operator become increasingly persistent, prompting the adoption of measures to neutralize them.

After receiving the operator's command to destroy, the computer analyzes the target's distance, altitude, speed, angle of approach to the attack trajectory, and the optimal activation time for the barrier munition. The specialized mounting platform (mount) is then oriented toward the calculated threat and the elevation angle is adjusted to achieve the optimal launch position for the barrier munition.

In summary, the military engineers' idea has merit, but now it's up to microelectronics specialists and programmers to implement it. Creating a barrier system with such characteristics from scratch is a highly complex task.






Against this backdrop, the "Upper Turret Dynamic Protection Module" from the Omsk Transport Engineering Plant looks familiar and entirely feasible. Unlike a similar design installed on Nizhny Tagil tanks, the Omsk team proposed a disassemblable design, significantly simplifying repairs to damaged components. That's pretty much it for this idea.

Let's return to the developments of the Karbyshev Engineering Academy. More precisely, to patent RU2843238C1, which is suspiciously reminiscent of a foreign anti-drone solution. We won't specify the source; the knowledgeable reader will figure it out for themselves. Externally, the device resembles a convertible top, except that its top is not soft, but made of steel mesh.




In the stowed position, the crew is unimpeded—the sky above the tank is clear. In combat, a hood is folded over the upper hemisphere, significantly complicating FPV attacks. The vehicle can also rotate the gun 360 degrees, as the entire mount is mounted on the turret. This is an inexpensive and interesting solution. All that remains is to wait for it to be fielded. Incidentally, the patent dates back to September of last year.


A much more sophisticated development is the improved Arena-M active defense system developed by the Machine-Building Design Bureau. The azimuth orientation of the tubes ensures comprehensive protection of the active defense system, allowing interceptor missiles to be guided in flight. To protect the upper hemisphere, some of the active defense tubes are positioned at an angle of 0° to 25° relative to the vertical, with their fragmentation elements oriented toward the horizon or the upper hemisphere. The receiver and transmitter antennas are mounted at an inclination of 60° to 87° relative to the vertical axis. Well, we'll see what we see at the front. Such products are as essential as air.

All-round armoring of lightly armored vehicles should become a true classic on the front lines. Moreover, this should be done not in the field, but at manufacturing plants. For example, as engineers from the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant and the Military Engineering Center propose in their patents. Such armoring would certainly suit the Tiger.


















Weapon The last hope is definitely a hand-held mortar project, which has also received a patent. When all the barbecues and grills have been destroyed, and drones are still circling in the sky, small arms can come to the rescue. In official language, it sounds like this:

"The invention relates to means of protecting infantrymen, as well as automobile and armored vehicles, from attacks by enemy UAVs (drones), primarily FPV drones, as well as low-hovering drones, and to means of trench warfare."


The shot is initiated electrically, and the four barrels can be loaded with anything. The list includes shot, flechettes, pyrotechnic stars, shavings, pellets, and other striking elements. Small stones are probably also suitable.

As we can see, design thinking in Russia has noticeably revived—there are clearly more patents in the field of anti-drone defense. Some are uninteresting, but most should be implemented soon, at least as prototypes. And then tested on the front lines. Something useful will definitely emerge from this flood of patents.
76 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +2
    23 September 2025 04: 47
    Something useful will definitely come out of the patent stream.
    If you suffer long enough, something will come of it...
    1. +4
      23 September 2025 07: 28
      Perhaps we should remember here that infantry and tanks without air superiority are essentially sitting ducks. Small skies must be taken by storm, with a swarm of fighter-interceptors and drones. Small air defenses. All the technology for this exists. We just need a change in mentality, understanding that electronics miniaturization has reached a new level and entire air armies of FPV fighters are needed. Then infantry and armored vehicles will be able to break through.
      1. +4
        23 September 2025 09: 38
        You just need to change your mentality, understand, that the miniaturization of electronics has reached a new level and there should be entire air armies of FPV fighters

        There's no sign of a change in course here: the same faces, they just talk about it a little differently...
        and so:
        Andrey Filatov recorded a simple, yet understandable video explanation of trench electronic warfare.
        What does a ground attack mission look like? Yes, they often carry an electronic warfare backpack or equivalent, and rifles. An enemy bird flies in—it's knocked down by the electronic warfare, for example, by the 750 MHz control frequency. Then the Ukrainian Armed Forces send another bird in—it's jammed again. It's understandable—the Russians feel invulnerable.
        All flight reports are recorded in the internal Delta-type APU system, so neighboring crews can see what's happening and launch a drone at ours on a 2,2 GHz frequency to hit the target.

        But even if the 2,2 is jammed, 1,1 GHz or 120 MHz is flying, or the point is covered by artillery, they can launch a Vampire on a flight mission or FPV under airdrops with the absolutely invulnerable Starlink. There have been cases where our entire companies have been destroyed, without any wounded or captured.
        A joint frontline effort is needed to intercept enemy UAVs, spoof video signals, and conduct analytics across the entire LBS to determine where and on what frequencies the enemy is flying. A search for UAV operating points is also needed. However, there's a lack of commitment from senior officials—a mountain of paperwork is required, and there's a lack of understanding, expertise, and resources. It's easy to churn out a bunch of identical drones or missiles.
        1. +3
          23 September 2025 10: 32
          Quote: Dedok
          A common frontline effort is needed to intercept enemy UAVs, spoof video signals, and conduct analytics across the entire LBS—where and on what frequencies the enemy is flying.

          There is still a reaction from the military-political leadership of the Russian Federation.
          The development of a new branch of the armed forces, the unmanned systems, was planned to be completed within a couple of months. Recently, there was news about the establishment of an electronic warfare research institute based at a university.
          It's a shame the problem of the normal development of UAVs and electronic warfare systems wasn't addressed 20 years ago, when it was first identified. But apparently, it's our national characteristic to take a long time to get going and move quickly, only to catch up and overtake someone else.
          1. +2
            23 September 2025 14: 35
            Quote: Vitaly.17
            Quote: Dedok
            A common frontline effort is needed to intercept enemy UAVs, spoof video signals, and conduct analytics across the entire LBS—where and on what frequencies the enemy is flying.

            There is still a reaction from the military-political leadership of the Russian Federation.
            The development of a new branch of the armed forces, the unmanned systems, was planned to be completed within a couple of months. Recently, there was news about the establishment of an electronic warfare research institute based at a university.
            It's a shame the problem of the normal development of UAVs and electronic warfare systems wasn't addressed 20 years ago, when it was first identified. But apparently, it's our national characteristic to take a long time to get going and move quickly, only to catch up and overtake someone else.


            There is an opinion that there was an anti-drone lobby (naturally financed by someone).

            Naturally, this was compounded by a fundamental inability to create anything useful in commercial quantities and in a short time frame in a system that was parasitizing on the ruins of a previous, more developed civilization.
            1. +1
              23 September 2025 16: 17
              Quote: Eng Mech
              There is an opinion that there was an anti-drone lobby

              Russia is full of agents of influence in high positions, both military and civilian. And neither the "Iron Curtain" nor Western sanctions have any impact on their numbers. Not only do they cling to every letter of the law and internal orders and directives to stall promising projects, but they also have powerful patrons who ignore any complaints.
        2. 0
          23 September 2025 12: 31
          Blocking and interception of control... it somehow reminds me of the "Armored chariots" for overcoming barbed wire obstacles and machine gun fire during the First World War... With 9-meter wheels... :))))
          If you need to hammer in a nail, you don't need a hammer drill. You just need a hammer and hit the head... You need fighter drones.
      2. 0
        25 September 2025 07: 34
        Where can I get this miniature electronics?
        And what kind of electronics are there if there are still no standard factory-made "barbecues" on equipment?
  2. +3
    23 September 2025 05: 29
    Weld several hedgehog-shaped reinforcement rods around the tank, about 15-20 of them, and stretch a chain-link mesh over them.
    Cheap and cheerful. It'll be quicker to replace and repair than expensive factory grilles.
    1. 0
      23 September 2025 12: 32
      What the heck... Throw sandbags at him...
  3. +1
    23 September 2025 05: 43
    nevertheless, passive protection (grids) should be fast fold - for driving into a box, into a caponier, into an earthen shelter, for easier camouflage in the forest, for technical maintenance.
  4. 0
    23 September 2025 06: 01
    Because I'm partial to hedgehogs:

    A combination of passive and active protection that can be implemented tomorrow is as follows:

    If there is a technical possibility of implementing, based on solutions for smoke grenade launchers and fireworks installations, multi-shot (like a Roman candle) shotguns with controlled initiation of shots from the upper to the lower charge, then

    1. By attaching this anti-drone grenade launcher (which is supposed to have a longer stole when implementing a Roman candle type solution) to a spring-loaded flexible mount (like antennas) or rigidly
    2. In the area of ​​the muzzle, on the same spring bases, there is a diverging bundle of peaks (each of which CAN, if necessary, be equipped with a sub-bundle of branches).

    Thus, by analogy, we obtain active-passive protection similar to the first example.

    Naturally, nothing prevents it from being installed on a flexible frame like the "hood" shown, including in lateral projections, since everything is spring-loaded and not very susceptible to demolition by any not very close obstacles.

    For an example of a spring base, see the photo of the antenna mounting unit for WWII-era equipment.

    The development of ideas for the king of barbecues is envisioned in self-propelled, self-folding/unfolding hangar structures that can cover the protected object while moving or briefly stopped and move synchronously with it on a rigid or semi-rigid hitch. Naturally, this implies the ability to adjust the track width of the structure so that when folded, it does not exceed the transport dimensions and when unfolded, it can accommodate equipment.
  5. 0
    23 September 2025 08: 29
    Everything has its uses, I especially liked the folding barbecue grill on the tank. It could be used on other armored vehicles too. People are working, thinking about how to protect military equipment.
    As someone who served in the Strategic Missile Forces, I propose calculating how many Oreshnik missiles would be needed for a simultaneous salvo to end this strategic air defense on our side and the war on the West and Ukraine, without nuclear warheads. With a humanitarian focus and no radioactive contamination. True, we'd have to eliminate the entire leadership, right down to the mayor's offices and district centers, to eradicate this Nazi plague, like pigs infected with the plague.
    1. 0
      25 September 2025 07: 42
      As someone who served in the Strategic Missile Forces, you should understand perfectly well that no amount of non-nuclear Oreshnikov missiles would be enough to solve a problem like this.
      1. 0
        25 September 2025 14: 25
        Have you served in any military forces? Tell us how you see the path to victory, and how quickly. hi
      2. 0
        25 September 2025 14: 32
        By the way, I received a thousand downvotes in the last 24 hours, which means I've hurt the feelings of traitors and liberals, democrats, and Westerners, so my commenting was worth it. Thanks to all the commenters. hi
        1. 0
          26 September 2025 05: 51
          No. You got downvoted for writing nonsense. About my service. Strategic Missile Forces.
          1. 0
            26 September 2025 13: 57
            I suggested that you write your view on how we can defeat the Banderites quickly, your smart solution or one as stupid as mine. hi
  6. +4
    23 September 2025 08: 45
    I've already suggested it and I'll repeat it now...
    Take an alarm sensor and set it to a specific area. A pellet pellet is also aimed in that direction. A garland is hung in a circle. The cost is 700 rubles plus the pellet. When any object appears in the sensor's zone, the pellet detonates. A lightweight drone will be blown away immediately...
    1. +1
      23 September 2025 09: 15
      Quote: Sergey Kirakosyan
      I've already suggested it and I'll repeat it now...
      Take an alarm sensor and set it to a specific area. A pellet pellet is also aimed in that direction. A garland is hung in a circle. The cost is 700 rubles plus the pellet. When any object appears in the sensor's zone, the pellet detonates. A lightweight drone will be blown away immediately...


      The idea is excellent if there is protection against triggering on false targets.

      I still feel sorry for the birds and other animals.

      If the sensor is called an "electronic eye"
      That
      An additional element could be a directed "electronic ear" tuned to a relatively narrow range(s) of noise from drone propellers and engines.
      1. +5
        23 September 2025 09: 35
        I don't think "birds and animals" will approach a tank during combat. And those "birds" that do, everything is built against them.
        And Grads and TOSs kill no fewer animals.
        The main thing here is that when the system is turned on, your own people don’t approach the tank.
        1. +1
          23 September 2025 10: 07
          Quote: Sergey Kirakosyan
          I don't think "birds and animals" will approach a tank during combat. And those "birds" that do, everything is built against them.
          And Grads and TOSs kill no fewer animals.
          The main thing here is that when the system is turned on, your own people don’t approach the tank.


          That's what I'm talking about too.

          During the march and at the stop, birds usually don’t come (including their own ones, don’t they)?

          I believe that there must be such/similar fuse.

          Ideally, a friend-or-foe recognition system would be an additional option in case the vehicle is accompanied by its own drones (for example, drone fighters and/or reconnaissance drones of a neighboring vehicle, etc.)
    2. +1
      23 September 2025 11: 29
      Quote: Sergey Kirakosyan
      Take an alarm sensor and set it to a specific area. A pellet pellet is also aimed in that direction. A garland is hung in a circle. The cost is 700 rubles plus the pellet. When any object appears in the sensor's zone, the pellet detonates. A lightweight drone will be blown away immediately...

      And when the vehicle on which it is installed is moving, this system will not react to poles, bushes, and its own soldiers that the vehicle is passing by?
      1. +2
        23 September 2025 12: 30
        Necessarily will.
        Therefore, certain sectors can be switched off temporarily.
        The system has both advantages and disadvantages, but this is the basic version. As the author has already mentioned, a lidar with AI could be used instead of the sensor, but that would be a more complex solution...
    3. 0
      25 September 2025 07: 45
      What kind of alarm sensor? Thermal? Acoustic? Radar?
      1. 0
        25 September 2025 18: 37
        A regular thermal one. It can spot a mouse from 5 meters away.
        But we still need an experiment...
        1. 0
          26 September 2025 05: 49
          It's good that it can detect targets at 5 meters. But how can you tell a mouse apart from an enemy drone or, say, a friendly fighter? A target selection system is needed.
    4. 0
      26 September 2025 14: 14
      What if this object turns out to be one of our own soldiers or a civilian?
      1. 0
        26 September 2025 18: 26
        Until other, fully functional systems are created, our own keep a low profile while this one is in operation. Alternatively, certain sectors could be shut down for the necessary time...
        1. 0
          26 September 2025 19: 30
          And who's going to do all this? The tank has a three-person crew, and everyone's busy. Besides, the thermal sensors will be activated, so when the need arises, the tank will no longer have drone-killing ammunition. The Earth is teeming with life, and there are plenty of thermal anomalies. It's not like setting up a sensor in a warehouse and monitoring mice. Again, target selection is necessary.
          1. 0
            26 September 2025 19: 48
            I completely and categorically agree. But this is just an idea. To answer all these questions, testing and experimentation are needed.
            When they started shooting down tanks with drones, many people also said, "Oh, screw it, that's just nonsense," and now we're here discussing how to fight it...
  7. 0
    23 September 2025 12: 19
    The idea of ​​combining active and passive defense systems is a good one. But right now, it's all ineffective because we're trying to cram it all into vehicle models (primarily tanks and infantry fighting vehicles) that weren't initially designed to require anything like this.
    This manifests itself in two ways: such systems require a lot of space for installation, which is limited. Therefore, either the equipment must be completely enclosed in a box, reducing visibility and slowing down crew evacuation.
    Second, the shape and dimensions of the vehicles aren't optimized for the need for cover. Ideally, the smaller the tank's surface area, the more difficult it will be for a drone to hit (if the tank is parked in a field, a drone could easily hit a matchbox, but consider that during active combat, the crew will maneuver as much as possible and employ active and passive defenses). But then the internal volume might not be sufficient to accommodate everything needed. At the same time, we see that drones (due to their flight) attack from above 90% of the time. So maybe make the vehicles a little narrower than usual? Then it would be easier to cover them. But this is certainly not an ideal solution, and it has its own set of drawbacks.
    What could be improved is the cleanliness of the hull. The more protruding systems and elements there are on the hull, the more difficult it is to position the mesh so it doesn't snag or interfere with anything. The tank's hull needs to be redesigned so that any external equipment protrudes as little as possible from the overall silhouette.
  8. 0
    23 September 2025 12: 21
    Without drones, there's no point in talking about intercepting and destroying other drones. Drones are so cheap that you wouldn't mind spending 150 FPV drones on a regular armored vehicle... Some barbecue grill was attacked by as many as 60 drones...
  9. 0
    23 September 2025 12: 25
    An engineer's thought: what if we simplify everything to the extreme and ask, for example, how will light from a powerful spotlight affect a drone's optics? What about in strobe mode? What about several powerful laser pointers? What about with a servo drive and a guidance system for, say, a high-contrast moving target? And not instead of, but in addition to all of the above? We need to break free from conventional wisdom!
  10. 0
    23 September 2025 13: 45
    Until thunder strikes, a man won't cross himself. Nothing has changed in hundreds of years of Russian history. Where there's poison, there's an antidote. But still, the SVO is not a model for military conflict with a highly developed country. The recent Israeli and US strike on Iran showed how it would work. Initially, the destruction of all military and other infrastructure with a massive air strike by stealth aircraft. Then, finishing off with conventional strike forces. And only then can ground troops be deployed. Ukraine, with its drones, is only surviving thanks to Western aid and Skylink. There's no point in elevating FPV drones to the ultimate weapon. When airstrikes and missiles have destroyed infrastructure and there's no outside help, drones won't help. The unfortunate Palestinians are a case in point. Only tanks and other heavy weapons are available.
  11. 0
    23 September 2025 14: 00
    The problem of drones will be solved by air defense.
  12. +3
    23 September 2025 14: 46
    Since the late 80s, we've been told that reconnaissance and fire contours for destroying the enemy are just around the corner. They drew pretty pictures, showing how the enemy could be detected in a matter of seconds, target designation transmitted, and precision-guided munitions opened fire.
    In reality, it turns out that even after 40 years, we have none of that. Even if a target is detected, the command to engage it is still waiting for hours, or once fire is opened, the target is gone, or no one cares about engaging it—they've done their job, and that's it.
    There are many examples that can be given. That's my point.
    The system needs to be changed. Establish scientific and intellectual management within the Ministry of Defense, conduct research and development on relevant topics, place government orders for the required equipment, and ensure mandatory testing in exercises and real combat. Organize experimental units and formations to practice new combat techniques and equipment on them.
    It's just the way things are with us. One guy sounds the alarm, talking about the dangers of drones, but everyone ignores him. "Smart" generals brush off the problems, unilaterally deciding they're unnecessary, without considering the opinions of scientists, including military scientists. We supposedly have a military-scientific school, but no one uses its research. Look at the books by Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov, and no one has read them except our adversary, Zaluzhny.
    In this regard, the Americans have done things much more sensibly. They have the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) with its own budget, they conduct research, a special department in the Pentagon is required to review it, and a decision on further use is made collectively.
    1. 0
      23 September 2025 18: 26
      or after opening fire the target is no longer there, or its destruction is of no interest to anyone - they've done their job, and that's okay.

      This can be solved economically by making a small change to the system. The fire initiator confirms the need for a strike directly to the executor. If they can confirm that there is no target and the strike is not necessary, they can receive a bonus for a certain number of cancelled strikes, due to savings in ammunition, calculation time, etc. Artillery can have other bonuses, for example, for the speed of establishing contact with the initiator.
      1. 0
        25 September 2025 17: 12
        Maybe so. In any case, it's about building a functioning system. But for now, the bonus system at the SVO doesn't work quite right.
  13. +1
    23 September 2025 15: 23
    Passive defense (except for electronic warfare, of course) against drones is fundamentally impossible. A penetrating core doesn't care about all these nets and cables. A shell with a penetrating core is simpler than a shaped charge. A penetrating core can penetrate two-caliber armor at a distance of 1000 calibers from the charge. Since our defense industry is stagnant, these charges can be manufactured right at the front, by selecting suitable casings from among the vast selection of plastic containers on the market and fabricating copper "plates" in a home-made workshop using primitive equipment. Well, packing this thing with plastic explosives is elementary. It's quite possible to fit within the mass specifications of the RPG-7 shaped-charge grenade, which is now actively used as a drone munition. Aiming such a thing accurately at a hovering drone would be no problem.
    These same munitions, with a slight modification in the form of a wire spider, a battery, and a narrow-beam motion sensor, can be placed directly on the nets blocking roads.
    1. 0
      24 September 2025 08: 05
      Quote: whowhy
      Passive defense (except for electronic warfare, of course) against drones is fundamentally impossible. A penetrating core doesn't care about all these nets and cables. A shell with a penetrating core is simpler than a shaped charge. A penetrating core can penetrate two-caliber armor at a distance of 1000 calibers from the charge. Since our defense industry is stagnant, these charges can be manufactured right at the front, by selecting suitable casings from among the vast selection of plastic containers on the market and fabricating copper "plates" in a home-made workshop using primitive equipment. Well, packing this thing with plastic explosives is elementary. It's quite possible to fit within the mass specifications of the RPG-7 shaped-charge grenade, which is now actively used as a drone munition. Aiming such a thing accurately at a hovering drone would be no problem.
      These same munitions, with a slight modification in the form of a wire spider, a battery, and a narrow-beam motion sensor, can be placed directly on the nets blocking roads.


      I'm certainly not an expert on cores, but

      It seems like there are barbecues on the roof, including from them.

      As far as I understand, the core breaks through the armor due to high kinetic energy.

      Accordingly, it can be “cut” and/or deflected by a grate.

      The action of a durable mesh with ceramic "beads" is also interesting.
      1. 0
        24 September 2025 11: 54
        The speed of the impact core is significantly higher than the speed of any projectile....
        1. 0
          24 September 2025 14: 05
          Quote: whowhy
          The speed of the impact core is significantly higher than the speed of any projectile....


          Well, as I said, kinetics works.

          But as far as I understand, the core is a kind of drop of molten metal, which can be relatively easily (compared to a solid state of aggregation) "cut", split, redirected.
          1. 0
            24 September 2025 18: 25
            Well, well. A penetrating core isn't much different from a shaped-charge jet, and all those nets and cables aren't a problem for it. The only difference is that, unlike a penetrating core, a shaped-charge jet's armor penetration is more dependent on distance.
            1. 0
              24 September 2025 21: 48
              There's no better way to ruin an idea than to demand absolute effectiveness from it. Let's invent defenses only against "cardboard" UAVs and shaped charges. Countering impact cores and tungsten crowbars requires only thicker armor; anything else is useless.
              1. 0
                25 September 2025 03: 33
                Quote: also a doctor
                There's no better way to ruin an idea than to demand absolute effectiveness from it. Let's invent defenses only against "cardboard" UAVs and shaped charges. Countering impact cores and tungsten crowbars requires only thicker armor; anything else is useless.


                If this is directed at me, then being no expert at all, I got the information about the impact core from here

                https://gosh100.livejournal.com/292086.html?ysclid=mfxib1gloq901510234

                Quote from the source
                "
                In addition, the missiles very easily lose orientation when colliding with any obstacle, and then hit flat, fragment, and do not penetrate anything.
                "
                Hence the moral:
                Sufficiently strong lattices at an angle to the armor and mesh should still work as an element of armor spacing ≈ its thickening without a dramatic increase in mass.

                In addition, they will continue to operate from discharges and from conventional cumulative warheads by destroying them or initiating their activation away from their own armor.

                That is, I don’t see any particular contradictions between us.

                As far as I know
                Tungsten, uranium and other crowbars can also be slightly deflected, dulled, or bent by the grids.

                Thank you.
            2. 0
              25 September 2025 03: 35
              Quote: whowhy
              Well, well. A penetrating core isn't much different from a shaped-charge jet, and all those nets and cables aren't a problem for it. The only difference is that, unlike a penetrating core, a shaped-charge jet's armor penetration is more dependent on distance.



              According to this information, these are completely different striking elements and only the warheads look similar.

              https://gosh100.livejournal.com/292086.html?ysclid=mfxib1gloq901510234

              Thank you
            3. 0
              25 September 2025 09: 00
              Quote: whowhy
              Well, well. A penetrating core isn't much different from a shaped-charge jet, and all those nets and cables aren't a problem for it. The only difference is that, unlike a penetrating core, a shaped-charge jet's armor penetration is more dependent on distance.


              Amendment
              The impact core is still a metal drop-shaped blank (with possible liquid inclusions after the explosion of the warhead that forms it and after the impact with the obstacle itself) accelerated to 1-3 km/sec.
              But a cumulative jet is a liquid = molten metal accelerated to 10-15 km/sec
              If you like, you can imagine it as a spherical-velocity sub-caliber liquid core.

              And there is also
              ChatGopota's opinion (≈ a generalized hodgepodge of internet opinions)

              It's long and can't be fully remembered in one comment.

              (I.e.
              Below is a detailed rationale for the best combinations of EFP and HEAT protection, with theoretical reasons, plus an illustrative cutaway of a protected section (PNG file).

              A detailed description of the best combinations and why they work

              General considerations: EFPs and shaped-charge jets are distinct threats, and optimal defensive strategies overlap but have important differences. The best solutions combine multiple defense mechanisms, each operating on its own physics: interruption/initiation (mesh/slat), destruction/dispersion (ceramics, particle curtains), dynamic displacement (ERA), and residual energy absorption (composite, spall liner). The key idea is not to rely on a single method, but to create a sequence of layers that sequentially remove energy, focus, and mass from the threat, converting dangerous kinetic/jet effects into distributed energy and/or fine pellets.
          2. 0
            26 September 2025 06: 09
            There are no kinetics. And there is no metal blank in the penetrating core. The penetrating core and the shaped-charge jet are of the same nature. They do not penetrate, burn, or breach armor; at those temperatures and pressures, the interaction between the jet and the armor occurs according to the laws of hydrodynamics. A liquid jet flows through liquid armor. The composition and slope of the armor are irrelevant; only the density matters.
            1. 0
              26 September 2025 07: 53
              Quote: Sergey_Skorpionov
              There are no kinetics. And there is no metal blank in the penetrating core. The penetrating core and the shaped-charge jet are of the same nature. They do not penetrate, burn, or breach armor; at those temperatures and pressures, the interaction between the jet and the armor occurs according to the laws of hydrodynamics. A liquid jet flows through liquid armor. The composition and slope of the armor are irrelevant; only the density matters.


              Well, let it be your way.
              Why then do these two types of warheads exist?

              Why is a jet called a jet and is it ineffective after a certain number of calibers (10, I think)

              And the core is called a core (not a drop) and is effective at hundreds of diameters and ineffective immediately after initiation?

              In general, this is not the point of the conversation.
              1. 0
                26 September 2025 10: 00
                I explain.
                For different purposes. A cumulative jet has greater armor penetration, so to speak, but a shorter range; a penetrating core has a longer range but significantly less armor penetration.
                Because this is a stream of liquid metal and the products of the explosion itself. In the impact core, everything is exactly the same. There are no fundamental differences. It's the Munroe effect. The differences in the ammunition are only structural.
                Because that's what it's called. The core's lining is thicker, maybe that's why.
                The cumulative jet is also not effective immediately after initiation; the impact core, due to the larger caliber of the funnel, has a focal length further than the cumulative jet.
                There are of course some nuances, but they are not fundamental.
                1. 0
                  26 September 2025 12: 00
                  Quote: Sergey_Skorpionov
                  I explain.
                  For different purposes. A cumulative jet has greater armor penetration, so to speak, but a shorter range; a penetrating core has a longer range but significantly less armor penetration.
                  Because this is a stream of liquid metal and the products of the explosion itself. In the impact core, everything is exactly the same. There are no fundamental differences. It's the Munroe effect. The differences in the ammunition are only structural.
                  Because that's what it's called. The core's lining is thicker, maybe that's why.
                  The cumulative jet is also not effective immediately after initiation; the impact core, due to the larger caliber of the funnel, has a focal length further than the cumulative jet.
                  There are of course some nuances, but they are not fundamental.


                  Thanks for your futile attempt to enlighten me.

                  Why do materials that are identical in their state of aggregation behave so differently?

                  Do you think the diagram showing the difference between a cumulative jet and a shock core is a misconception and the model is a fake/dummy?

                  What is the estimated temperature of the bulk of the material in the copper (or any other material you choose) jet and core after final formation but before contact with the armor, according to your data?

                  Thank you for your time.
                  1. 0
                    26 September 2025 12: 12
                    My pleasure.)
                    I didn't understand the question about states of matter. What materials are so different? In what cases? Please clarify.
                    As I've already written, there's no fundamental difference. The pictures you provided confirm this. Where do you see any contradictions?
                    Regarding temperature, the question seems a little strange, given that the main factor in the transition of armor metal into a liquid state is not temperature, but pressure.
                    1. 0
                      26 September 2025 15: 06
                      Quote: Sergey_Skorpionov
                      My pleasure.)
                      I didn't understand the question about states of matter. What materials are so different? In what cases? Please clarify.
                      As I've already written, there's no fundamental difference. The pictures you provided confirm this. Where do you see any contradictions?
                      Regarding temperature, the question seems a little strange, given that the main factor in the transition of armor metal into a liquid state is not temperature, but pressure.



                      The jet and the core (here and below: according to the information I have) are formed by the metal lining of the warhead charge, which is conical (=cone below) and plate-shaped (=plate below).

                      When the warhead explodes

                      The cone of the cumulative warhead collapses into a stream of molten metal moving at a speed of about 10 km/sec, but, as a rule, disintegrating into several fragments (like any normal substance in the aggregate state of a liquid in a medium) at a distance of about 10 calibers of the warhead, but at this distance it pushes through, cuts through, melts (as you wish)

                      The plate of the "nuclear" warhead is turned by the blast wave of the warhead with the concave side outward/forward, and the edges of the plate are folded back, forming the so-called core consisting of the material of the plate (= mainly of metal in a solid state ≠ liquid state), which can have a more round or more elongated shape (let's call it drop-shaped), which moves at a speed of 1-3 km/sec, has a penetrating ability as a rule of no more than one caliber of the warhead, but retains this penetrating ability for 1000 calibers of flight (i.e., it behaves like a normal solid body not optimized for an aerodynamic shape to maintain high speed (= high kinetic energy)) in long collisions (in contrast, for example, to sub-caliber fin-stabilized projectiles).

                      From here flowed (almost like liquid) my questions about your opinion on the subject:

                      The reasons for such different behavior of the damaging elements: the jet and the core have the same state of aggregation = liquid

                      I was interested in the temperature (from your point of view) of the damaging elements, the jet and the core, because, based on my possible deep misconception, this is an indirect or direct indicator of the difference or uniformity of the aggregate state of any substances under other equal conditions (such as material, external pressure, etc.)

                      If you are trying to play at misunderstanding these issues and at the same time claim that you know exactly the intricacies and nuances of the characteristics of the striking jet and core, then I think I am wasting my time.

                      How do you think:
                      A model of which striking element is shown in the second picture?

                      If the elements of this model are real samples of warhead test results, how do you think they were obtained?

                      Thank you.

                      I have to pause for a while, but I would be happy to read your answers to the questions asked (with your interpretation of how you understood these questions), and not counter questions.

                      thanks again
                      1. +1
                        26 September 2025 19: 21
                        That's right. It's the cladding that creates the penetrating effect.
                        As for the temperature, I can only guess, but I think the temperature of the jet itself is up to 1000 degrees.
                        The temperature of the cladding in the collapsed state is already approximately two times lower.
                        Naturally, this is a mock-up of the impact core.
                        I don’t know how the layout was obtained.
                      2. 0
                        27 September 2025 03: 10
                        Quote: Sergey_Skorpionov
                        That's right. It's the cladding that creates the penetrating effect.
                        As for the temperature, I can only guess, but I think the temperature of the jet itself is up to 1000 degrees.
                        The temperature of the cladding in the collapsed state is already approximately two times lower.
                        Naturally, this is a mock-up of the impact core.
                        I don’t know how the layout was obtained.


                        Well, that is, in the end you will probably agree with this.
                        What

                        In flight to the target

                        A jet is a liquid
                        The core is basically a blank (let it be a solid body with local inclusions of liquid)

                        At the moment of impact

                        Jet: I agree with everything you suggested regarding the interaction of hot liquid with metal (let's call this interaction liquid cutting/drilling of armor)

                        Core: The naturally high kinetic energy of the core is transformed into heat upon impact, including

                        If the core is relatively cold, then local melting (and along with it hydrodynamic interactions) and crater-like damage, including the formation of fragments on the inside of the armor, occur even in the absence of penetration as such.

                        If the core is “warm”, massive and especially elongated in shape and with a high collision speed (= high kinetic energy), then there is certainly more melting of both the core and the armor and the associated hydrodynamic effects.

                        If the core has a temperature close to the melting point, there may be options (but according to my information, the temperatures are generally lower and I don’t have exact data, but I actually didn’t look hard enough)

                        But what is more or less there (kinetics or hydrodynamics) - this is generally a reason for some kind of dissertation

                        I think there is more kinetics, especially at long distances of the core's flight (of course, I could be wrong)

                        The samples in the picture, from my point of view, were obtained by a series of shots of a cannonball into some viscous medium that does not strongly deform the sample, located at different distances from the charge.

                        The appearance of these samples tells me that the core is a molten solid material.

                        Thank you.
  14. +4
    23 September 2025 15: 48
    Nothing else will work reliably except physically destroying the drone. The biggest problem is identifying the threat and distinguishing real from false. This poses the greatest challenges. How does the APS work? Everything is simply based on the threat's speed, but a drone can move at zero or very low speed, which confuses the APS, as it could be a piece of land, a piece of wood, or something similar, but it poses no real threat. Although the unnatural movement of the threat would make it possible to transform it into a real one. A piece of land can't hover in place and change its speed like its trajectory, therefore it is a real threat. Therefore, first and foremost, we need sensors that assess speed and dimensions, as well as software that will allow for effective analysis. Computing power and response speed are already more than sufficient. The means of destruction can vary. The most reliable today is the good old kinetic weapon, for example, a 23mm aircraft cannon with a projectile loaded with large quantities of shot due to a less powerful propellant powder charge, as 100 meters are unnecessary at long ranges (remember the KS-23 with a 23x71 cartridge). A short range is also a plus, as it helps avoid collateral damage to allies. But the most expensive and complex component is the detection and targeting equipment, and as the article mentions about the turret example, it's simply very expensive today. Although the latter is debatable, as equipment is expensive and people are not cheap, and an uncompleted combat mission is priceless. All other dead-end approaches are electronic warfare, and they will bypass protective nets/penetrate reactive armor.
  15. +1
    23 September 2025 16: 04
    For personal defense, I think a double-barreled derringer chambered for a 20-gauge shotgun cartridge would be suitable: it weighs under one kilogram, is quick to use, and can also be used as a second weapon and a flare gun.
    1. 0
      23 September 2025 16: 36
      I agree. It's essential to equip the infantry en masse with this, like a small entrenching tool, and train them in its use. You read the article and wonder how the patriots at the front have one thing, and others have another. It's not about helping soldiers in the Northern Military District, but about grabbing a bigger piece and hiding. Everything presented in this article, unfortunately, will likely remain on paper. Here, you need to take risks, think, search, and never give up. This isn't for "bad managers."
    2. 0
      26 September 2025 05: 05
      Quote: Melior
      For personal defense, I think a double-barreled derringer chambered for a 20-gauge shotgun cartridge would be suitable: it weighs under one kilogram, is quick to use, and can also be used as a second weapon and a flare gun.



      They say that it is possible to make 12 gauge inserts for a metal flare gun.

      But in principle, it probably wouldn't be very difficult to make stronger barrels and a folding buttstock-cartridge holder for the original 4th caliber.

      It would also be interesting to try shooting several pellets tied in a web from a regular flare gun.
      1. +1
        26 September 2025 15: 48
        I wouldn't even shoot a 12 gauge pistol, so I suggested a 20 gauge, and the 4 gauge would break your hand with the recoil!
        1. 0
          27 September 2025 01: 57
          Quote: Melior
          I wouldn't even shoot a 12 gauge pistol, so I suggested a 20 gauge, and the 4 gauge would break your hand with the recoil!


          Of course, and that's why a folding buttstock-cartridge belt (front grip in the folded position) wouldn't hurt.
        2. 0
          1 October 2025 10: 06
          Quote: Melior
          I wouldn't even shoot a 12 gauge pistol, so I suggested a 20 gauge, and the 4 gauge would break your hand with the recoil!


          By the way, I wonder if there have been any experiments with barrel-mounted cups, like a ersatz grenade launcher, only equipped with a buckshot charge.

          Theoretically, it is possible to fire such a charge with a standard bullet, especially if the buckshot is connected.
          1. 0
            1 October 2025 13: 02
            We played around with rifle grenade launchers a bit, but the idea wasn't so great. Besides, they wouldn't work with automatic weapons, or you'd have to disable the automatic mode for the shot, and the AK has a non-adjustable gas system.
          2. 0
            30 October 2025 14: 48
            Quote: Ing Mech
            Quote: Melior
            I wouldn't even shoot a 12 gauge pistol, so I suggested a 20 gauge, and the 4 gauge would break your hand with the recoil!


            By the way, I wonder if there have been any experiments with barrel-mounted cups, like a ersatz grenade launcher, only equipped with a buckshot charge.

            Theoretically, it is possible to fire such a charge with a standard bullet, especially if the buckshot is connected.


            There are such experiments
            1. 0
              31 October 2025 06: 00
              Quote: Ing Mech


              There are such experiments


              I would (if I can't do without gunpowder in the insert) play with sleeve-shaped inserts (with an internal diameter for the bullet to pass through when firing a live cartridge)

              Ideally, they should be standardized for firing from a flare pistol with a reinforced barrel (if you think about it)

              It is possible that the nozzle itself can be a revolver and have a “stream break” (a gap between the cut of the barrel and the nozzle).
    3. 0
      26 October 2025 05: 02
      Quote: Melior
      For personal defense, I think a double-barreled derringer chambered for a 20-gauge shotgun cartridge would be suitable: it weighs under one kilogram, is quick to use, and can also be used as a second weapon and a flare gun.


      By the way.

      Of course, I won’t dare to predict the consequences for the hand of the person shooting from this device.

      https://7-62.ru/4047/?yclid=14310576388046847999&ybaip=1
  16. -1
    23 September 2025 18: 43
    the cost of this solution will be prohibitive.

    For some reason, inventors don't favor simple, mass-produced ideas like smoke generators or paint camouflage.
    For example, if armored vehicles camouflaged with ground texture are painted with terrain features and fragments symmetrically relative to the bow and stern, and visible parts are masked and duplicated, it becomes more difficult for a drone operator to understand where the vehicle is moving, at what speed, etc.
  17. 0
    24 September 2025 16: 26
    Quote: Eng Mech

    Naturally, this was compounded by a fundamental inability to create anything useful in commercial quantities and in a short time frame in a system that was parasitizing on the ruins of a previous, more developed civilization.

    Interesting idea...
    I liked the first option - with spikes...
    Reminds me of the movie "Mad Max: Fury Road."
    There was a whole gang of these "hedgehogs" with prickles that were terrifying those passing by!
    These guys were desperate!
    In the past, in the era of non-nuclear conflicts, apparently this is how people protected themselves from drones!
  18. +1
    24 September 2025 18: 40
    The Kazakhs need it, but this is all a palliative. The Chinese completely agree with me on this.
  19. 0
    24 September 2025 21: 37
    The article is scientific, but fruitless, because Nabiullina will not give money for protective nets.
    .
    Secondly, the authors mistakenly believe that it's possible to protect a single tank or vehicle from drones. Any of the proposed defenses is a one-time solution. Therefore, when the Ministry of Defense colonels, as usual, demand absolute protection, effective day and night, in temperatures from minus 100 to plus 100 degrees, and lighter than air, so as not to add weight to the tank, they will absolutely reject any of these options.
    .
    Thirdly, if you do the math, it turns out to be more cost-effective to equip each tank with a hundred attack UAVs, and the enemy simply won't have time to use their drones, as they will be destroyed earlier.
    .
    However, since our command is unable and unwilling to create and exploit a superior force, we are left to endure enemy drone strikes under various nets. In this regard, counter-drone defenses must be studied and developed.
  20. 0
    27 September 2025 22: 48
    27 drones in a matter of minutes (I'm sure many have seen this footage), no passive defense will save them, electronic warfare? The enemy adapts quickly, drones are fighters, well, they'll appear from the other side too, so we need to shoot them down, and there are no easy solutions: machine vision, AI, compact installations, automatic operation. And the problem needs to be solved now; you can't get by on the field without armor!
  21. 0
    29 September 2025 20: 05
    Quote: Yuri_K_Msk
    Where there is poison, there is an antidote.


    ...and then we read a thick, expensive history book:

    One of the options... consisted of steel rods welded at the ends to the main armor... In another option, steel angles were used to initiate the cumulative jet and extinguish it.


    One of the options... could be the projectile-proof lattice screens, which were developed at the Leningrad Institute of Physics and Technology in 1948.


    In 1960-1961, two versions of the T-54 tank's mesh screen protection—the "Umbrella" and "Tent" types—were tested under fire. The partial "Umbrella" screening of the T-54 demonstrated its effectiveness... the "Tent" screening provided all-round protection for the tank.
    (I’ll add on my own – there was also a Tent, allowing free rotation of the tower).

    60 years have passed. Guess why all this beauty wasn't put into production (without the usual kickbacks and embezzlement).
  22. 0
    17 October 2025 13: 47
    The protective system from the Arzamas Machine-Building Plant is bad. Very bad, and here's why: the distance from the armor is too small. You can't place the grilles on the sides, rear, and front at right angles. Instead of extending upward from the hood and covering it with mesh from the roof, they instead move it closer to the armored vehicle. Therefore, the mesh must be positioned at an obtuse angle from the armor. If the FPV has propellers in front, a drone will scrape the mesh first, lifting it. To protect against an overhead strike, the mesh should be conical, like an isosceles triangle whose edges aren't straight, but rather herringbone-shaped at obtuse angles.
    1. 0
      19 October 2025 09: 19
      As an option, to protect armored vehicles from drones, you can try to adapt a shot blasting machine similar to the one used in factories to clean castings. This is a simple device, cast iron shot is fed into a stream of compressed air and the pellets fly at a speed of 50-60 m / s, this is enough to destroy an attacking tank plastic drone at a distance of 10-15 m. Since the shot blasting machine will not work continuously, you can get by with a small compressor and a cylinder of compressed air. Naturally, you need a system for detecting attacking drones and an automatic guidance system, and since the pellets fly apart in a cone, there should be no problems with hitting the target.
  23. 0
    3 November 2025 15: 15
    And now civilian Ka-band radars have arrived.

    (24–26 GHz)

    https://vsluh.net/5298-ot-kabanov-do-bespilotnikov-grazhdanskie-radary-iz-kitaja-sdelali-neozhidannuju-kareru-v-rossijskoj-armii.html