Faces of the Civil War

В previous article We also discussed the unexpected power vacuum that emerged after Nicholas II, contrary to the laws of the Russian Empire, abdicated not only for himself but also for his minor son. After the Emperor's younger brother, Mikhail, also refused to accept the throne, power was unexpectedly seized by impostors—irresponsible populists in the State Duma. They quickly destroyed everything they could lay their hands on in the country, so much so that former Minister of War V. A. Sukhomlinov was forced to admit after the Bolshevik victory:

The people surrounding Lenin are not my friends; they do not embody my ideal of national heroes. At the same time, I can no longer call them "robbers and plunderers" after it became clear that they only picked up what had been abandoned: the throne and power.

Before the Red Terror: The Beginning of Bolshevik Rule

But how did the Civil War begin? And why did the Russian Empire's former Entente allies suddenly intervene? After all, no one initially saw any tragedy in the Bolsheviks' rise to power, and their first steps were entirely democratic. Dignitaries of the tsarist regime, arrested after the February Revolution, were immediately released from prison. Many officers and generals arrested after the Kornilov mutiny were released on their word of honor not to fight against the revolution again. Among them, for example, was P. Krasnov, who immediately broke his word (he later welcomed Germany's attack on the Soviet Union and headed the "Main Directorate of Cossack Troops" created within the Imperial Ministry for the Eastern Occupied Territories; he was hanged by court order on January 16, 1947).

And already in 1918, Andrei Shkuro, who was hanged along with Krasnov (we will talk about him in a separate article), also broke his word given in Vladikavkaz to the Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Terek People's Republic, Samuil Buachidze.

The October Revolution took place on October 24-25, 1917 (Old Style), and on October 28, a decree abolishing the death penalty was issued. However, the hatred for the landowners, the "bourgeoisie," and the officers who slapped and slapped them was so great that numerous lynchings were recorded locally. Attempts were made to suppress them, including by M. Uritsky, chairman of the Petrograd All-Russian Extraordinary Commission (VChK), who was a principled opponent of the death penalty and declared:

I'm against executions because I believe they're pointless. They'll only fuel resentment and won't produce any positive results.

He also banned the practice of taking hostages, which was widespread in other places.

And Vladimir Lenin wrote then:

Terror, such as the French revolutionaries used... we do not use it, and I hope we will not use it.

In November 1917, Lenin was nominated by the Norwegian Social Democratic Party for the Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee rejected his candidacy, but only for the formal reason of his late submission.

Lunacharsky stated:

I will go with my comrades to the end, but surrender is better than terror.

And this is what G. Zinoviev said:

Revolution? Internationale? These are great events, but I'll burst into tears if they touch Paris.

The famous academician I. P. Pavlov, assessing the thoughts and mood of N. Bukharin, who had met with him, said to him mockingly:

I thought you were a Bolshevik, but you are a real intellectual brat.

A memorandum from British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour on December 21, 1917, which was supported by French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau, explicitly stated the need

to show the Bolsheviks that we do not wish to interfere in the internal affairs of Russia, and that it would be a profound mistake to think that we are assisting the counter-revolution.

On January 8, 1918, US President Woodrow Wilson presented to Congress a draft peace treaty ending World War I (in history (This was Wilson's "14 Points"), which called for the liberation of all Russian territories and the granting of Russia a full and unimpeded opportunity to make independent decisions regarding its political development. Russia was also promised assistance in gaining admission to the League of Nations.

The situation in the country was rapidly deteriorating, and on May 28, 1918, Lenin published “Theses on the Current Situation,” in which he called for (but did not order) a three-month "declare martial law throughout the country", and at the same time "introduce execution by firing squad for indiscipline".

It was only in June 1918 that a decree reinstating the death penalty was passed. The first death sentence was handed down to the commander of the Baltic Sea Naval Forces, Aleksey Shchastny, who was accused of "counter-revolutionary agitation, connivance at such navy, failure to comply with orders from the Soviet government and its systematic discrediting in the eyes of the sailors with the aim of overthrowing it." and found guilty of that "consciously and openly prepared the conditions for a counter-revolutionary coup d'etat".

But even after the murder of the editor-in-chief of the Krasnaya Gazeta, V. Voldarsky (M. Goldstein), on June 20, 1918, the head of the Petrograd Cheka, M. Uritsky, and the chairman of the Petrograd Soviet, G. Zinoviev, decisively suppressed attempts by Petrograd workers to use repression against officers and the bourgeoisie.

On July 5, Lenin speaks at the Fifth All-Russian Congress of Soviets:

A revolutionary who refuses to be hypocritical cannot renounce the death penalty... They cite decrees abolishing the death penalty. But... laws in times of transition are temporary. And if a law hinders the progress of the revolution, it is repealed or amended.

On August 19, 1918, Trotsky and Sverdlov arrived in Petrograd from Moscow, greatly dissatisfied with the excessive "leniency" of the local Cheka. They insisted on the adoption of a decree that would nevertheless grant the Cheka the authority to execute counterrevolutionaries—and, once again, the main opponent of this decision was the aforementioned head of the Petrograd Cheka, Uritsky.

M. Uritsky in a photograph from 1918.

It was only on September 5, 1918—following the assassination attempt on Lenin and the murder of Uritsky (August 30, 1918)—that Sverdlov officially declared the Red Terror campaign inaugurated. The decree was signed by People's Commissar of Justice D. Kursky, People's Commissar of Internal Affairs G. Petrovsky, Chief of Staff of the Council of People's Commissars V. Bonch-Bruyevich, and Secretary of the Council of People's Commissars L. Fotieva.

Incidentally, note that these fatal assassination attempts were directed not against ardent supporters of revolutionary terror (like Trotsky or Sverdlov), but against Lenin, who held a relatively moderate position, and Uritsky, a principled opponent of the death penalty. Conspiracy theories inevitably arise that the perpetrators were merely puppets of the most radical leaders of the Bolshevik Party.

And who then emerged as the main opponent of the "irreconcilables"? Yakov Peters, who, after the assassination of the German ambassador Mirbach, temporarily replaced Dzerzhinsky as chairman of the Cheka, and later became his deputy. He wrote in November 1918:

I was the first to raise a cry against terror... Those most affected by this - I would say hysterical - terror were precisely those soft-hearted revolutionaries who were thrown off balance and became overzealous.

J. Peters and F. Dzerzhinsky, photograph 1918-1919.

But Lenin reacted to the assassination attempt with philosophical calm; he said to Gorky, who came to express his sympathy:

A fight. What to do? Everyone does their best.

Incidentally, on the other hand, it was precisely the previously seemingly "harmless" intellectuals who also distinguished themselves with particular cruelty. This is also mentioned in A. N. Tolstoy's novel "The Road to Calvary," written immediately after the events. Red company commander Moshkin says:

My guys wounded a cadet, I wanted to bring him in, but it's a shame – he's gone… The kid is a snot-nosed brat, but so mean – "Louts, louts!" – the guys were amazed… What about the Cossacks! A Cossack is a fool, a man, a brother – you punch him, he punches you, and then jumps back… And these – such weak-knuckle, merciless, tsk-tsk!

Contrary to popular belief, Dzerzhinsky cannot be considered an uncompromising supporter of terror and the death penalty. In April 1918, he wrote about the actions of Socialist Revolutionary Mikhail Muravyov, who was entrusted with command of the troops in Ukraine by V. Antonov-Ovseenko, commander of the Southern Front:

The worst enemy could not have done us as much harm as he did with his nightmarish reprisals and executions.

Here is what Lenin said at the IV Conference of Provincial Extraordinary Commissions on February 6, 1919:

Although the death penalty was abolished at the initiative of Comrade Dzerzhinsky after the capture of Rostov, a caveat was made at the very beginning that we were in no way closing our eyes to the possibility of reinstating executions. For us, this issue is determined by expediency.

On January 17, 1920, the All-Russian Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR again adopted the resolution "On the abolition of the use of capital punishment (execution)", but on May 4, the Revolutionary Military Council permitted military tribunals to sentence the accused to death.

Two defeats of the deputies of the Constituent Assembly

Let's also say a little about the infamous "dissolution of the Constituent Assembly." Its first (and last) session lasted 12 hours and 40 minutes—no wonder the "guards were tired." Frankly, I would have been tired four hours earlier. Having listened to the overly talkative deputies during this time, Anatoly Zheleznyakov, head of security at the Tauride Palace, stated bluntly:

Your chatter is of no use to the workers!

In short, it became clear on the very first day that the same useless chatterboxes as the members of the recently disbanded Provisional Government had flocked to Petrograd from all over Russia. They would never be able to reach an agreement and, like a swan, a crayfish, and a pike, would drag the country in different directions. Meanwhile, thanks to the activities of Kerensky and company, the front had already collapsed, and difficult negotiations with representatives of the German government were underway in Brest. In the south, the tsarist generals were gathering the White Volunteer Army. Nationalists were raising their voices in the outskirts. And the windbags gathered in the Tauride Palace couldn't stop talking—instead of immediately getting down to work and literally beginning to save the fatherland (which the Bolsheviks were already actively doing). The Constituent Assembly would have undoubtedly destroyed the country, but, as they say, God protected them—they escaped this time. So what did the deputies of the Constituent Assembly do in this situation? They just chatted and bickered in restaurants and pubs for a few days and then went their separate ways.

Let us recall that in a similar situation, the deputies of the French Estates General gathered together in the tennis court without the slightest hesitation and swore not to disperse until they had adopted a constitution.

The Constituent Assembly deputies had many supporters, both in the capital and locally. In Petrograd, on January 19, a demonstration of thousands in their support took place (as well as another one, under the slogan "Down with the Constituent Assembly"). Soldiers from the Preobrazhensky and Semyonovsky regiments were ready to defend them—they were merely waiting for a call for help. They were about to leave their barracks themselves, but repair shop workers disabled the armored cars these guardsmen wanted to use. Even without their armored cars, however, the forces of these regiments were quite impressive. But the deputies abandoned the fight, further demonstrating their insignificance.

By the way, few people now know that the second time the deputies of the Constituent Assembly were dispersed by Admiral Kolchak.

In the summer of 1918 (June 8), the All-Russian Government was formed in Samara, known as the Committee of Members of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly (Komuch). It had its own army, led by General Vladimir Kappel—the same one who robbed our country by seizing Russia's gold reserves, the so-called "Kolchak Gold," in Kazan on August 6, 1918. On September 23, 1918, the Komuch merged with the Provisional Siberian Government, creating the "Ufa Directory." And on the night of November 17-18, 1918, Kolchak staged a coup and declared himself "The Supreme Ruler of Russia".

In short, the "neither cold nor hot" deputies of the Constituent Assembly in Russia turned out to be of no use to anyone. Everything is exactly as the "Revelation of John the Divine" says:

You are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot! But because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of my mouth.

Twenty-five former deputies of the Constituent Assembly were thrown into prison by Kolchak, many of them soon killed in their cells. And then:

The strings of my guitar were ringing,
How I retreated from Samara...
The guitar is ringing, but I can’t sleep,
After all, dusty Omsk is no longer the capital...
Oh, my charabanc, it’s completely broken,
Why the Entente, I fell in love?

Instigators of civil war

The Russian Civil War finally began. It was started by the "Whites," specifically General Lavr Kornilov. Barely released from arrest, on November 20, 1917, he set out for the Don with the Tekinsky Regiment, and on November 27, he was routed by the Red Army at the Peschaniki siding near Unecha. Disguised as a peasant, Kornilov reached Novocherkassk by train on December 6, 1917, and on February 9 (22), 1918 (a month after the publication of Wilson's "14 Points," so advantageous for the new Russia), he led the Volunteer Army he had created, which, for now, numbered only one full regiment, on the First Kuban ("Ice") March on Yekaterinodar. Kornilov died on March 31 (April 13), 1918, but the flames of the Civil War unleashed by him and other White generals could no longer be extinguished – it raged until October 25, 1922, when the Red Army captured Vladivostok. However, some suggest that its end date is June 16, 1923, when 103 officers and 230 soldiers of General A. Pepeliaev (brother of Kolchak's prime minister) surrendered to Stepan Vostretsov's Red Army soldiers in the village of Ayan (Khabarovsk Krai), located on the coast of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk.

What were the goals and objectives of the Bolsheviks' opponents? Here we see a surprising diversity of views, but the only common denominator was that no one wanted the return of the still-living Nicholas II to the throne.

Lavr Kornilov actually started out as a revolutionary general; after the victory of the “Februaryists,” he declared:

I believe that the coup that took place in Russia is a sure guarantee of our victory over the enemy. Only a free Russia, having thrown off the yoke of the old regime, can emerge victorious from this world struggle.

It was L. Kornilov, in the presence of A. Guchkov, who arrested Nicholas II's family in Tsarskoye Selo and then ordered the burning of Grigori Rasputin's body. The general placed great hopes on the Constituent Assembly, believing that it would be the one to "construct" a new state system.

Spring 1917, Commander of the Petrograd Military District L. G. Kornilov takes the parade of cadets

Kolchak, on the contrary, was more than skeptical of the Constituent Assembly. He was a supporter of "strong power" and had a reputation for advocating the idea of ​​a "united and indivisible Russia." In fact, in exchange for recognition by the governments of the Entente countries as "the supreme ruler of Russia," he confirmed the legitimacy of the secession of Poland (and along with it, Western Ukraine and Western Belarus) and Finland from Russia. And in 1919, he agreed to submit the issue of the secession of Latvia, Estonia, the Caucasus, and the Trans-Caspian region to the arbitration of the League of Nations. Thus, it can be safely said that Kolchak's victory inevitably led to the complete collapse and dismantling of the unified Russian state. The methods Kolchak and his subordinates used against dissent can be learned from the memoirs of Major General William Sidney Graves, commander of the American Expeditionary Force in Siberia and the Far East.

William Sidney Graves, photographed in 1918

Here are some quotes from his book, America's Siberian Adventure:

I doubt that in the history of the last half century there will be at least one country in the world where murders would be committed even more calmly and with less fear of punishment than it was in Siberia under the regime of Admiral Kolchak.

Next:

Horrible murders were committed, but not by the Bolsheviks, as the world believes. It would be no exaggeration to say that for every person killed by the Bolsheviks in Eastern Siberia, a hundred were killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.

And here is the result:

The Reds (Bolsheviks) are supported (in Siberia) by about 45%, the Socialist Revolutionaries (SRs) by about 40%, about 10% is divided between other parties, and 5% remains for the military, officials and supporters of Kolchak... right up until the fall of the Omsk government, Kolchak's army was a retreating gang.

Demyan Bedny wrote about the inevitable end of this gang's leader:

It was a joy to the enemy
Seeing corpses in the snow
In the middle of the Siberian space:
The corpses of poor peasants
And working superfighters.
But for these dead people
Kolchak received the award:
We told him, the dashing bastard,
Knocking him into a snowdrift,
They also put a bullet in his forehead.

Kolchak in the last photograph taken in January 1920.

It is not surprising that in 1999 the Transbaikal Military Court declared Kolchak "a person who has committed crimes against peace and humanity and is not subject to rehabilitation", and the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court upheld this ruling in November 2001. It is surprising that a monument to this bloody admiral still stands in Irkutsk.

Denikin, by the way, in his “Essays on the Russian Time of Troubles” reluctantly admits that his army "mired in large and small sins that cast a deep shadow on the bright face of the liberation movement"White Guard General Ivan Belyaev writes a little more specifically about the "sins" of Denikin's army:

Punitive detachments, floggings and robberies without trial, reprisals, the return of embittered landowners to their nests - all this created a heavy atmosphere of impending catastrophe.

And the result of these “sins”:

The entire rear was engulfed by a peasant movement hostile to us.

Here is a telegram from Denikin’s General Mamontov, returning from the Tambov raid:

Sending my regards. We're bringing rich gifts to our family and friends, 60 million rubles to the Don treasury, and expensive icons and church utensils for church decoration.

From Denikin's point of view, what kind of sin was this marauding raid - great or small?

Colonel of the General Staff B. Shteifon wrote about other "white heroes" of the civil war:

Countless numbers of those shot and hanged fell to Generals Pokrovsky and Shkuro. Both of them, drunkards and robbers by nature, brought terror to the populations of the conquered areas.

According to the testimony of General Mai-Maevsky's adjutant, Pavel Makarov, Denikin was planning to put Shkuro on trial. "for arbitrariness and destruction of occupied territories"But he never gave it up—because he intended to do so in Moscow, which was occupied by White troops. Shkuro knew about this and said:

We'll break through the front, enter Moscow - and then I'll drink for three days, hang whoever I need to and shoot someone in the forehead.

Vasily Shulgin, a staunch monarchist and member of the State Duma of three convocations, who accepted the abdication of Nicholas II and was one of the organizers of the White movement, recalls:

When the looting began and I appealed for it to be stopped, General Romanovsky replied that looting was the only incentive for the Cossacks to move forward: "Forbid looting, and no one will force them to move forward."

We remember that American General Graves called Kolchak's army a gang. And military representatives of the Entente countries called Denikin's units "mired in sins" "roving armies without the support of the population and without a rear"Even wealthy peasants and members of the bourgeoisie preferred to hide their goods from White Guard quartermasters and sell them to European merchants. For example, in September 1919, Donbas mine owners sold several thousand wagons of coal abroad, but only one wagon was given to Denikin's troops. In Kursk, Denikin's cavalry received only ten horseshoes instead of the two thousand they had requested. It was later estimated that in 1919, Denikin's army numbered approximately 110 soldiers and officers, while 78 served in the police and counterintelligence—so much were the White Guard "liberators" "loved" in the territory under his control.

"Indeterminacy"

The grave mistake of all the White movement's leaders was their refusal to address the pressing problems that had accumulated, the very reason for the fall of the last emperor's regime. They declared victory over the Bolsheviks their primary goal, after which someone else would somehow resolve the form of government and the land issue, pass laws regulating workers' relations with business owners, and provide the people with a constitution and at least some social guarantees. This position became known as "indecision." Anton Denikin, who positioned himself as a patriot and supporter of a "united and indivisible Russia," was also a proponent of it. This, incidentally, complicated his relations with Ukrainian nationalists.

Denikin in Taganrog, 1918

He, too, failed to put forward a single coherent political slogan resonating with the people. He promised some kind of People's Assembly with unclear powers and functions. He spoke of regional autonomy, but in his "Appeal to the People of Little Russia" published on August 25 (12), 1919, he prohibited the use of the name "Ukraine." He hinted at some kind of labor legislation, without saying anything about when it would be adopted or what social guarantees it would provide. He vaguely mentioned "assistance to workers in need of land," without disclosing the most important thing: what would this consist of? In short, nothing concrete, just generalities.

The people remembered well how the "Tsar-Liberator" Alexander II had deceived the peasants in 1861: it turned out that the land remained the property of the landowners, and the "field plots" allocated to the peasants were, on average, 20% smaller than those they had cultivated before the reform. Moreover, for these plots, the peasants were obliged to either pay quitrent or perform corvee labor for at least nine years—men aged 18 to 55 were required to perform 40 days of corvee labor, and women aged 17 to 50, 30 days.

The peasants were required to purchase the allocated land, and the State Commission valued the land parcels at 897 million rubles, worth 544 million rubles. Since the peasants had no spare cash, the state issued them a 49-year loan at an inflated interest rate of 6% (compared to an average of 5%). Ultimately, their payments would exceed the land's actual value by almost three times—294%. The peasants didn't want to be left with a pig in a poke a second time. The workers, too, didn't want to wait for "rain on Thursday." Therefore, the people rallied en masse to support the Bolsheviks, who issued a short, unambiguous slogan: "Factories to the workers, land to the peasants."

The sensible proposals made by some generals were ignored by the White Guard leaders. Here, for example, is how Denikin describes the visit to Kaledin of his classmate (and friend) from the Kyiv Military Academy, P. Sytin, who

proposed the following measure to strengthen the front: to declare that land – landowner, state, church – would be given away free of charge to the peasants, but exclusively to those fighting at the front.

“I approached Kaledin with my project,” says Sytin, “but he grabbed his head: ‘What are you preaching? This is pure demagoguery!’”

Sytin left without land or division. He later readily accepted the Bolshevik theory of communist land tenure.

P. P. Sytin, a researcher at the Central State Archives of the Red Army, in a photograph taken around 1938, is the son of a soldier in the Uhlan Regiment, a major general in the Imperial Army, awarded the St. George Cross. weapons, holder of seven royal orders. Photo taken circa 1938.

N. Yudenich stated quite simply:

The Russian White Guard has one goal: to expel the Bolsheviks from Russia. The Guard has no political program.

N. Yudenich in a photograph from 1919

Thus, it turned out that the Whites simply had nothing to offer the people of Russia – except vague promises that later, someday, other people would choose the optimal form of government, finally resolve the land issue, and introduce at least some social guarantees.

Moreover, very soon the Whites lost their last “trump card”: calling themselves patriots, they found themselves completely dependent on the Entente.

"The Dogs of the Entente", caricature by V. Denis

And the Bolsheviks, who had previously advocated Russia's defeat in the world war, suddenly put forward the slogan of "defending the fatherland," albeit a socialist one, which was understandable to everyone.

Thus, the Bolsheviks turned out to be greater patriots than the same Kolchak about whom they sang (and on both sides of the front):

English uniform
Shoulder strap french
Japanese tobacco,
Omsk ruler.
The uniform has been torn down
Epaulet fell
Tobacco smoked,
The ruler was washed away.

Against this backdrop, Pyotr Wrangel, Denikin's successor, stands out. In the final stages of the civil war, attempting to win the people over to his side, he suddenly shifted from vague words to tangible promises. He agreed to transfer idle land (not cultivated by landowners) to the peasants for a "fair" ransom, with the state acting as an intermediary in the settlements. He promised self-government to the ethnic outlying areas (but within the framework of a unified Russian state). His government began drafting laws regulating workers' rights. Having "choked" his monarchist convictions, he again spoke of a Constituent Assembly, to which he agreed to grant the right to decide matters of Russia's state structure.

"Ruler of the South of Russia" Baron P.N. Wrangel, Sevastopol, 1920

Some researchers believe that if the Whites had put forward such a program from the very beginning, the civil war might have taken a different course. But it was too late now—the people didn't believe them. And it's unlikely they would have believed them in the first place: few hoped that after the victory over the Bolsheviks, "their honors" would not be deceived—that, as in the well-known fairy tale, they would be given the "tops" of the turnips and the "roots" of the wheat.

Nevertheless, let us talk a little in the following articles about the "Black Baron" Pyotr Wrangel, his origins and life before the revolution, his participation in the White movement, his emigration and death abroad.

Comments

[Uncle lee]

The Reds (Bolsheviks) are supported (in Siberia) by about 45%, the Socialist Revolutionaries (SRs) by about 40%, about 10% is divided between other parties, and 5% remains for the military, officials, and supporters of Kolchak.

Oh, street, street!
Gad Denikin is squinting
What is the Siberian Cheka?
Exchanged Kolchak

[Reptiloid]

Finally, a great, wonderful article has appeared, Vladimir Vladimirovich. with many facts and dates of events of that time.

[Civil]

Excellent article! We need more like this.

Thus, it turned out that the Whites simply had nothing to offer the people of Russia – except vague promises that later, someday, other people would choose the optimal form of government, finally resolve the land issue, and introduce at least some social guarantees.

It was necessary to adopt the "2020 Program". But seriously, the people are great knew with whom they were dealing. The value of their promises and their, "your brethren," attitude toward the majority of the population. The Whites also understood that no one would believe their promises anyway.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Reptiloid

great beautiful article by Vladimir Vladimirovich

A thoroughly false (from the very first statements) negative article... A new rehash of old mossy 70-year-old myths and fakes.

Unexpectedly for everyone, impostors found themselves in power

This is a lie: the Emperor instructed Prince Lvov to form a government, and he became Chairman of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. Both Nicholas and Mikhail called for submission to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, and the Soviets supported the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. Thus, this is a completely legitimate government.

After all, no one initially saw any tragedy in the Bolsheviks' coming to power.

Again a lie - Little Russia, Moscow, the Don, Orenburg, Central Asia, the Volga region, Siberia - everywhere fighting broke out and statements about rejection of the power of the usurpers of power.

And Peter, of course, the half-company of female shock troops disappeared completely - see VO earlier, as did the cadets, testimony of the defender of the Winter Palace, the commander of the school of ensigns:

...Somewhere I found a box of candles, and I began to walk around our barricades. What we saw in the dim light of the flickering candles is difficult to describe. A drunken mob, sensing the women behind the barricades, tried to drag them to their side. The cadets protected them. Piles of dead Bolsheviks doubled the width and height of the barricades, creating a parapet of corpses. Nevertheless, most of the shock women still fell into the clutches of the enraged bandits. I cannot describe everything they did to them—paper wouldn't hold up. Most were stripped, raped, and impaled vertically on the barricades with bayonets. As we patrolled our entire internal front, we came across a grisly pile in the corridor at the entrance to St. George's Hall. By the light of the candle ends, we saw a human leg tied to a wall candelabra, a pile of entrails spilling out of a stomach, from under which another leg protruded, pinned beneath the dead body of a soldier. On the other side, a Red Guard stretched out, clutching the victim's left arm in a death grip, and a tattered skirt in his hands. The victim's head was covered by the leg of a sailor lying on top of him. To see the woman's face, we had to pull the sailor's body away, but this was no easy task, as she had bitten the sailor's leg with her teeth in the struggle, and with her right hand, had driven a dagger into his heart.

The first large firing rangePETROPAVLOVSKAYA The fortress where hundreds of Russians were exterminated—excavations are still bringing up new bones—shots and volleys were heard from there throughout the 18th and 19th centuries (Likhaches witness)

Many officers and generals arrested after the Kornilov rebellion were released on their word of honor not to fight against the revolution any longer.
.

The author has already been caught in this lie, but continues: Kornilov, Denikin, etc. never The Bolsheviks did not release them and did not give them any “words”.

As for Krasnov, the Bolsheviks and Dybenko personally - Tarasov gave him a solemn oath do not arrest, and to arrive for negotiations, where it is treacherous and criminal arrested him.

An article should be written about all the author’s lies and fabrications, but in general:
All the leaders of the White movement mentioned by the author are people who defended Russia with their lives and blood in the most terrible war of that time, who were wounded and awarded many times for bravery, who proved their patriotism in DEEDS and saved Russia.

And the author's "patriots" at the same time were cowardly getting fat on beer in Switzerland, sleeping with minors in chicken coops, treating pubic eczema in the rear, calling for DEFEAT from the first days of the war - WHAT would have happened if you had listened to them in 1914 in Russia - on Ural Would the Germans have stopped or not?

So, in the Civil War, unleashed by the Bolsheviks on October 26 (and not October 25 - and here the Bolsheviks lied), Russian officers fought for the RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE to express their will in FREE elections, which they were FOREVER deprived of by the usurpers, who treacherously broke their promises about the US, peace, etc.

The Bolsheviks were afraid of elections and willpower for all 70 years before the nocturnal enuresis and never held them.

[Reptiloid]

Olgovich! I'm not at all surprised by you!

thoroughly false from the very first statements

Comment. However, I'm not surprised. Perhaps I'll gradually respond to your words, perhaps not. This slander has been repeated many times and received responses. And it wasn't the White Guards who defended Russia in WW1, but Russian soldiers from among the workers and peasants.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Reptiloid

This has been repeated many times slander and received answers.

You should be more careful with your words about the truth.

Quote: Reptiloid

And it wasn't the White Guards who defended Russia in WW1, but Russian soldiers.

So I am talking about the RUSSIAN SOLDIERS-heroes of the 19th century: Denikin, Yudenich, Kolchak, etc., who defended the Fatherland in a terrible war on the fronts from Persia to the Baltics for THREE years.

On which front did he fight the Ulyan occupiers? Dzhugashvili? Rosenfeld? Bronstein? Dzerzhinsky? Radomylsky? Kaganovich? Mikoyan?

On the Swiss and Kureisk "fronts"? With a glass and a sausage at the ready – for Germany's victory? And where are the Russians here, by the way?

[Star]

That's what I'm talking about RUSSIAN SOLDIERS - the heroes of the WTO

Left, right! Left, right!
General Samsonov is brave
The Tsar's army is leading,
He'll give the Germans a hard time.
The unfortunate infantry marched
Through the Masurian Marshes,
I walked without a plan, at random,
Didn't come back.
Hindenburg, striking in the rear
He immediately dampened our ardor.
Samsonov himself on horseback
Found myself trapped.
From all the Tsar's infantry
There was not a whole company left.
Screams, groans, death all around.
"We fought the enemy!"
The Tsar and the Orthodox Tsarina,
Having received from the main rate
Bulletin report:
"It's a bad day, they say,"
The front was consoled with dispatches:
Cavalry and infantry forces
In Rus' - there is no need to borrow.
We need to press again!

[Reptiloid]

Denikin, Yudenich, Kolchak, etc.

Are they heroes, in your opinion? Are you in your right mind, Olgovich? If any of them didn't collaborate with the Nazis, that's surprising, since the methods of conquest and the treatment of the Red Army soldiers and civilians were fascist. I'll write about that later.

[FIR FIR]

Quote: Reptiloid

And it was not the White Guards who defended Russia in WW1, but Russian soldiers from the workers and peasants.

What's surprising about this? Every time the elites become terribly distant from the people, a conflict ensues, ending in a change of elites. The strange thing is that each successive elite stratum fails to learn from the experience and mistakes of the previous one, stubbornly moving toward its demise through the reckless and maniacal exploitation of the working majority, gradually reducing this majority to disenfranchised cattle.
The crunch bakers are scary because they consider all this to be “the norm,” “God’s providence.”

[Reptiloid]

The First Russian Revolution of 1905-1907 took place. Those at the top didn't think seriously about it. About the causes and consequences. And the Stolypin terror? Stolypin ties all over the country. Olgovich will probably say it didn't happen.

[denplot]

What kind of nonsense is this? The name and rank of the ensign school commander? A reference to his memoirs? What piles of Bolshevik corpses? What naked shock troops with bayonets? And did they even calmly walk around the halls with candles after the assault, examining everything? So, logically, they shouldn't have been there after the assault? The palace was taken, and Red Guards were everywhere. Absolute nonsense.

[balabol]

That's right, you shouldn't believe every piece of nonsense spread by a certain person.
There are many recollections from contemporaries of the events of October 25, 1917. The assault as depicted in Eisenstein's film never happened. The mountain of bodies simply couldn't be found. And the barricades mentioned in this fiction were actually located in the square next to the Alexander Column. These are stacks of firewood, prepared just in case to heat the Winter Palace during the winter. I can just picture that honorary scene.
There was an interesting book of memoirs by Hermitage staff (not to be confused with the Winter Palace). Revolutionary soldiers and sailors snuck into the museum's halls through windows, where they were arrested and disarmed by the cadets. After a while, the number of soldiers increased exponentially. They took the cadets' weapons, locked them in the hall, and then proceeded through the passageway to the Winter Palace. Not a particularly bloody story.
Actually, in other places the "assault" took place in approximately the same way.
In the 70s, people who had lived in St. Petersburg in 1917 were still alive, ordinary people. The night was no better or worse than any before. There was shooting, and it had been going on for six months at night. By morning, the bourgeoisie left the restaurants in the neighboring blocks as if nothing had happened. And a new era had begun.

[Olgovich]

Quote: balabol

The barricades themselves, mentioned in this fiction, were located in the square next to the Alexander Column.

between the 1st and 2nd floors.

Half a company of shock troops disappeared completely—read VO—as did some of the cadets killed in the streets, arrested and then executed in the Peter and Paul Fortress—their bones are still found there, as are those of other hostages.

[balabol]

We've already discussed this and decided to end the discussion about 19th-20th century Russia due to your emotional bias on this topic. You ignore contradictory arguments and present one-sided materials to support your point of view.
VO is absolutely not an authority for me; on serious issues, only attributed primary sources.
Where did a couple dozen women disappear to during the revolutionary period, even those unknown by name, was the subject of Ogonyok's manipulations in the 80s.
The remains found on the territory of Zayachy Island, outside the walls of the Peter and Paul Fortress, are also not proven to be burials dating back to October 1917.
Why are you lumping everything together without any distinction?
And don't tell me about my city. I still remember living witnesses of the revolution in the 60s and 70s. The grandparents of my friends, the inhabitants of Petrograd. We talked a lot with them.

[Olgovich]

Quote: balabol

We have already talked and decided to stop discussing Russia in the 19th and 20th centuries, in view of your involvement in this topic.

- I didn't decide anything. We'll attribute your decision to your emotional bias and inability to conduct a discussion.

Quote: balabol

You ignore arguments that contradict you and present one-sided materials to support your point of view.

no arguments = nothing to ignore, the facts confirm my point of view.

Quote: balabol

VO is absolutely not an authority for me.

there are FACTS given

Quote: balabol

Where did a couple dozen women disappear to during the revolutionary period, even those unknown by name, was the subject of Ogonyok's manipulations in the 80s.

The names of the witnesses to the murder are known.

Now the machine guns pounded louder. Rifles clicked in places.

“They’re shooting,” the soldier broke the silence.

“Who?” I asked.

"Shock workers!" He paused, then added, "What a bunch of women! Half a company held out. The boys had their fill! They're with us. But if anyone refuses or is sick, that bastard's up against the wall!"
Lieutenant Alexander Petrovich Sinegub, a winter soldier. At the time described, he was serving in the School of Warrant Officers of the Engineering Troops.

Quote: balabol

The remains found on the territory of Zayachy Island, outside the walls of the Peter and Paul Fortress, are also not proven to be burials dating back to October 1917.
Why are you lumping everything together like that?

17, 18, 19, 18 has already been proven - the hero of the defense of Port Arthur Rykov has been identified, 17 - the remains of the uniform have been discovered.

Quote: balabol

No need to tell me about my city.

You are not alone here, I am not interested in you.

[Reptiloid]

So what were the cadets doing on the streets? Did they go out for a stroll during the storming of the Winter Palace? I doubt it.
By the time of the Revolution, the Peter and Paul Fortress was over 200 years old, and a great many bones had accumulated there. Even the remains of the tsars were buried there, and no one disturbed them despite the Revolution. St. Petersburg and Kronstadt themselves claimed many Russian lives.

[odisey3000]

And for the sake of completeness of the discussion, let us remember Moscow, where in those tragic days the cadets shot ordinary soldiers who had surrendered in the Kremlin.

[Stas157]

Quote: Olgovich

All the leaders of the White movement mentioned by the author are people who defended Russia with their lives and blood in the most terrible war

These White movement leaders plunged the country into a bloody civil war! They wanted to reverse the results of the October Revolution of 1917. But these White movement leaders, as it turned out, didn't even have a program for what they were fighting for. They had nothing to offer the people. That's why they lost, despite all the international support.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Stas157

These leaders of the White movement plunged the country into a bloody civil war! They wanted to reverse the results of the October Revolution of 1917.

You look at the FACTS: before VOR there was NO GV, but VOR and the dispersal of the US gave rise to FIGHTS and battles everywhere and IMMEDIATELY, here is more evidence about the night of October 25-26, the defender of the Winter Palace Volkov:.

Now the machine guns pounded louder. Rifles clicked in places.

“They’re shooting,” the soldier broke the silence.

“Who?” I asked.

"Shock workers!" He paused, then added, "What a bunch of women! Half a company held out. The boys had their fill! They're with us. But if anyone refuses or is sick, that bastard's up against the wall!"

.

Have you read the decrees of your own government regarding the Council of People's Commissars, land, etc.? Of course not.
Otherwise, they would have found out what they lied about in Soviet school: the Council of People's Commissars and the Decrees. temporary, - only until the Constituent Assembly.
:
-from the Address of the 2nd Congress to the Peoples

Soviet authority will ensure the timely convocation of the Constituent Assembly

,

from the Decree on the Council of People's Commissars:

The All-Russian Congress of Soviets of Workers', Soldiers' and Peasants' Deputies resolves:
To form for the governance of the country, until the convocation of the Constituent Assembly, TEMPORARY workers and peasants
government

- Decree on land

- great land reforms, forwarduntil their final decision by the Constituent Assembly,is announced temporary law that until the Constituent
assemblies

They deceived the people, cheated them with the UC, and staged a massacre.

And they taught lies in schools for 70 years.

By the way, could you at least answer why the people of Russia, who chose THEIR government in free elections to the Ukrainian SSR, had to accept the government of the Bolsheviks, who lost the election and dispersed the people's choice?

Let me remind you that the Bolsheviks never held any more elections.

[Reptiloid]

The illegal Provisional Government was formed by the illegal Provisional Committee of the State Duma and the Petrograd Soviet. Theoretically, it would have been possible to legitimize the Provisional Government by convening a Constituent Assembly. But they couldn't do it. They turned out to be completely incompetent people. And when they finally convened it, we know how it ended.

the guard is tired

So there can be no complaints about the Bolsheviks. They pushed aside completely illegitimate impostors who did nothing good for Russia.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Reptiloid

Illegal military service

Have you refuted what I wrote? No.

Quote: Reptiloid

Theoretically, it would be possible to legitimize the Provisional Government by convening a Constituent Assembly.

The VP exists only BEFORE the US, and the US chooses ITS OWN government

Quote: Reptiloid

Araul is tired
So there can be no complaints against the Bolsheviks.

guard is January, when bandits, lost elections , dispersed the people's representatives-their winners- Read a school textbook, but not a Soviet one - it's a lie.

[solovyov-igor]

The Tsarist supporters whine and moan pitifully, "Behold, the illegal October Bolshevik coup..." and so on. But!
The fact that the Provisional Government itself was not elected by anyone – they appointed themselves – is being very carefully hushed up!
In May 1917, they appointed powers to themselves and their term expired according to their own papers... October 25 (November 7), 1917.
Moreover, they elected themselves according to the laws of autocracy... one nobleman - one vote, but 100 thousand peasants are... also one vote.
(I'm exaggerating, but that's how it was!) Is this fair?
They changed their personnel four times and continued their mantra until Sailor Zheleznyak said, "The guard is tired. Go home!" (Remember! They didn't shoot you, they didn't arrest you, they sent you home in peace.)
By October 25 (November 7), 1917, the entire system of Soviets was built throughout the entire territory of Russia.
Through elections in which literally the entire population participated.
So what happened on the evening of October 25 (November 7), 1917?
Coup d'etat ? Revolution ? Riot ?
Neither one, nor the other, nor the third. The bourgeois revolution took place in February 1917, when traitorous generals and grand dukes overthrew the tsar (not the Bolsheviks, but the gentlemen who fed from the tsar's table).
During its miserable eight months of existence, the Provisional Government failed to offer any effective plans for Russia's development, and its composition changed four times.
This may refer to the last coalition government. It consisted of 17 people.
Well, the head of the government, as we know, got away in a timely and safe manner, though without any dressing up in women's clothes, as we sometimes wrote about.
The remaining ministers, after a brief detention, were released. Eight of them emigrated, while the others remained in their homeland. Almost all lived to a ripe old age.
Some achieved considerable fame. For example, the Minister of Religious Affairs, A. V. Kartashev, became a distinguished historian of Orthodoxy in exile and died in Paris in 1960 at the age of 85.
In 1945, Admiral D. N. Verderevsky, Minister of the Navy, came to the Soviet embassy in France and drank to the health of our Supreme Commander-in-Chief, whose very name sends your brethren into convulsions. The admiral even received Soviet citizenship, but, alas, he died soon after, before returning.
But War Minister A. A. Manikovsky, or rather, the acting minister, didn't leave and—imagine that!—was the Red Army's chief of supply during the Civil War. He died in a train accident.
Minister of Railways A.V. Liverovsky also remained in power, continuing to work in his field. In particular, he played a key role in the construction of the famous "Road of Life" across the frozen Lake Ladoga, which helped evacuate nearly one and a half million survivors of the siege of Leningrad. He received the Medal "For the Defense of Leningrad" and other awards. He died in 1961, the same age as Kartashev.
Special mention must be made of S. N. Tretyakov, the grandson of the founder of our famous art gallery. He served as chairman of the Economic Council and held the rank of minister. In occupied France, he became a highly valued intelligence officer, but, alas, in 43, the Germans discovered him and executed him.
Of those who remained, only the Minister of Agriculture, S. L. Maslov, was repressed in 1938, but not for being a minister. Before his arrest, he taught at Moscow University.

[Olgovich]

Quote: solovyov-igor

They appointed themselves!

To school! And above, see the Emperor's decree instructing Lvov to form a government.

Quote: solovyov-igor

Moreover, they themselves elected According to the laws of autocracy... one nobleman - one vote, but 100 thousand peasants are... also one naked

What... voices? In your head?

Quote: solovyov-igor

They changed their composition 4 times and continued their mantra until sailor Zheleznyak said so. The guard is tired. Go home!

learn what happened in October and what happened in January,

Quote: solovyov-igor

By October 25 (November 7), 1917, the entire system of Soviets was built throughout the entire territory of Russia.

It's a lie, just like the "elections" thing - a stupid lie - learn what elections are, for example, in the US

Quote: solovyov-igor

The Provisional Government has not offered any effective plans in the eight months of its miserable existence.

Learn the PURPOSE of the VP creatures - this is the elections in the US - EVERYTHING!

Quote: solovyov-igor

Coup d'etat ? Revolution ? Riot ?

coup - according to the Bolsheviks

Quote: solovyov-igor

Here we may be talking about the last coalition government

The entire first composition of the so-called "government" of the Council of People's Commissars will be found in the execution pits of Kommunarka or Butovo, etc., as well as the Politburo and the Orgburo.

[Unknown]

Damn CIPSO, he's slurring his words again.

testimony of the defense attorney

First big

violating one's own

like

And we must constantly yap at the Soviet government, the offspring of Judas.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Olgovich

...testimony of the defender of the Winter Palace, commander of the school of ensigns:

An unknown officer, a commander not killed, not raped, not impaled by the "Balshevitsky barbarians." Moreover, he traveled and collected testimony from these barbarians.
The "Memoirs" were written, presumably, in the 80s and 90s. And this is the "truth" the Bolsheviks feared.

[VLR]

This is nonsense, copied from the yellow pages of the perestroika-era Ogonyok. Here's what really happened:
One of the companies of the "Petrograd Women's Battalion" was used to guard the Winter Palace. The women were deceived into calling the battalion to Palace Square to participate in a parade. Then, when the deception was exposed, one company was asked to stay behind, ostensibly to deliver gasoline from the Nobel plant. According to eyewitnesses, the "shock workers" were unwilling to participate in this gamble and wanted only one thing—to escape the trap of the Winter Palace as quickly as possible. Only 13 of them, disdainfully referred to in the company as "aristocrats," expressed a desire to defend the Provisional Government, but they were not supported by the other women. At 10:00 PM on October 24, the entire company (137 people) laid down their arms. Rumors spread throughout Petrograd that the captured volunteers had been "mistreated," some even raped, and one of them committed suicide. However, a certain Ms. Tyrkova, a member of the Cadet faction of the Petrograd Duma, appointed to the commission investigating possible incidents, officially stated:

“All these girls are not only alive, not only uninjured, but they were not subjected to the terrible insults we heard and read about.”

Rumors of one of the women's suicide were confirmed, but it was determined to have been for personal reasons. At the end of November, the battalion was disbanded by order of N.V. Krylenko. However, it turned out that the former "shock workers" lacked women's clothing, and they were already embarrassed by their military uniforms, fearing ridicule, and therefore refused to return home. Dresses left over from the Institute for Noble Maidens were then delivered from Smolny, and funds for travel were allocated (from the treasury of the abolished "Women's Military Union Committee"). 

[Reptiloid]

I read that after the Winter Palace was taken, mirrors and porcelain objects were broken or damaged. That's understandable. Some fabrics.
And Olgovich, as always, talks about terrible HORRORS.

[balabol]

They beat and robbed, yes. But a few days later, a committee was organized to return the loot back to the working people. Groups of revolutionary soldiers and sailors visited commission shops and buying centers, requisitioning everything they deemed necessary, in accordance with their own notions of beauty. A special commission was organized by the Hermitage to attribute and accept the confiscated goods. They brought back a lot of unnecessary stuff.

[Amateur]

This is a lie - the Emperor instructed Prince Lvov to form a government,

After the abdication, citizen Romanov N.A. (former Emperor Nicholas II) could not entrust anything to anyone, since he had no power.

The Provisional Government of Russia was formed on March 2 (15), 1917, as a result of the February Revolution, through an agreement between the Provisional Committee of the State Duma and the Executive Committee of the Petrograd Soviet of Workers' and Soldiers' Deputies following the abdication of Emperor Nicholas II. It became the highest organ of state power, operating until the October Revolution of 1917, and ensured the governance of the country until the convening of the Constituent Assembly.

Everything else is an alternative reality.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Amateur

After the abdication, citizen Romanov N.A. (former Emperor Nicholas II) could not entrust anything to anyone, since he had no power.

Emperor Nicholas II signed a decree to the Governing Senate on the appointment of Lvov as Chairman of the Council of Ministers (March 2/15, 1917), that is,, an hour ahead of time, stated in the abdication - Lvov was still appointed emperor

Quote: Amateur

Everything else is an alternative reality.

moreover, "reality" is a lie.

[Fakapych]

The author of the article simply went too far. There were plenty of jerks on both the White and Red sides (well, they weren't born that way, after all). Both camps represented a cross-section of Russian society. There were self-interested people and careerists, and there were those who genuinely wanted happiness for the Motherland, but in different ways. But for some reason, the author whitewashes the Reds. There was so much blatant injustice that I'd be ashamed to even remember that era; there was so much atrocity and evil on both sides.

[ZnachWest]

As they say, the devil is in the details. And the article leaves a lot of them out. Or rather, doesn't even consider them. But the result is the same: yes, everyone is to blame, no one is an angel.

[Reptiloid]

Of course, your beloved Admiral Kolchak lied to those around him that he was not fighting against the Russian people, who were under the oppression of Nicholas II and his hangers-on, but was fighting against the International for Russian interests.

[odisey3000]

You're strange, the Bolsheviks are downright demons. They're both bad at this and that. It's strange how they even won the civil war. The author's article is good; the person really writes about the problems of the White movement. Let's start with the fact that it wasn't Lenin and Trotsky who overthrew the Tsar, but the Tsar's generals and members of the State Duma. And it wasn't the Bolsheviks who started the civil war, but the White generals, with the support of our Entente partners. It's sad that so many years have passed, and you speak of that time with such hatred, and the country is still divided between Reds and Whites. That's the sad part. And what can we say about the people who lived at that time? The result of all this chatter is that the Reds won the Civil War and created the world's first state of workers and peasants, a dictatorship of the proletariat. What happened to that state later is a topic for another conversation. Otherwise, the author of the article is great; there is objectivity in the presentation of this material. .

[Olgovich]

Quote from: odisey3000

You're a strange bunch, the Bolsheviks are like demons. They're bad at both ends of the spectrum. It's strange how they even won the civil war.

You are strange, not seeing this.

Quote from: odisey3000

Let's start with the fact that it was not Lenin and Trotsky who overthrew the Tsar, but the Tsar's generals and activists

read at least your Leninthe people overthrew under the leadership of the proletariat- It's a shame not to know.

Quote from: odisey3000

And it wasn't the Bolsheviks who started the civil war, but the White generals.

ONCE AGAIN—before your thieves, there was no Civil War. Outraged by the bandits' violent seizure of power, the PEOPLE rebelled.

Quote from: odisey3000

The result of all this chatter is that the Reds won the Civil War and created the world's first state of workers and peasants, the dictatorship of the proletariat.

The dictatorship of the PARTY of usurpers, under which workers and peasants lived without freedom of speech, thought, newspapers, conscience, without elections and without truth, in a lie, with the savage executions of hundreds of thousands of fellow citizens and the exile of millions of people - there is nothing like it in any country.

Quote from: odisey3000

What happened to this state later is a topic for another conversation.

Nope, as soon as freedom appeared, everything collapsed with general indifference.

Quote from: odisey3000

And the author of the article is great, there is objectivity.

nothing happened

[Klausp]

Olgovich, you're a complete ignoramus and a liar! You write, or rather, you lie, that "under the leadership of the proletariat, the people overthrew the tsar," and then you even blame it on the VIL. But you're a vile liar! Lenin wrote this in 1911: "Stolypin taught the Russian people a good lesson: either march to freedom by overthrowing the tsarist monarchy, under the leadership of the proletariat, or go into slavery to the Purishkeviches, Markovs, and Tolmachevs, under the ideological and political leadership of the Milyukovs and Guchkovs."
(Stolypin and the revolution of October 18 (31), 1911).
And nowhere did Lenin say that the Tsar was overthrown under the leadership of the proletariat.
Olgovich, stop taking what you take without control.

[Klausp]

Do you have any facts? Links to documents? But to lie and slander so selflessly and so unbridledly as you do, any Russophobe could do it, try to figure you out! Then you'll start saying that it wasn't the Whites who stole the gold reserves, that it wasn't the Czechoslovaks who terrorized the entire country... and that the Tsar didn't abdicate personally.

[Ross xnumx]

Nevertheless, let us talk a little in the following articles about the "Black Baron" Pyotr Wrangel, his origins and life before the revolution, his participation in the White movement, his emigration and death abroad.

My purely personal opinion is that the Civil War should be viewed as unrest in a country that does not have a firm and strong state authority, in the absence of ideology and state policy.
All these barons, fathers, and atamans were ambitious men (like Yeltsin himself), devoid of any vision of the prospects for forming a new state. This was exploited by Western bourgeois leaders who wanted to break up the Russian Empire in order to seize a bigger piece of the pie.

The past cannot be changed.
The future is unknown.
We must live in the present.
Righteous and honest

There is only a moment between past and future
It is called life.

And behind the "cruel" red terror hides the "cute and fluffy" White Guards...

[Reptiloid]

I always saw the Bolsheviks' victory in the Civil War and their assertion of power throughout the country as a truly remarkable event. It occurred over a vast territory, given the circumstances of the time, amid the absolute shortages of everything, famine, and disease that followed WWI.

[bober1982]

Quote: Reptiloid

I always understood the victory of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War and the onset of their power throughout the country as an amazing and remarkable event.

Dima, it was God's Providence, believe it or not.

[Reptiloid]

Yes, Vladimir! I agree 100%. I've always thought so. But I'm embarrassed to talk about it, since I don't know the religious terminology. And, by the way, not long ago, a hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church (I can't remember his last name) spoke about this in similar, or similar, terms. Sincerely,

[Per se.]

Quote: Reptiloid

I always understood the victory of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War and the advent of their power throughout the country as an amazing and remarkable event.

Truly, if it hadn’t been for this, 1991 is a perfect illustration of what would have happened to Russia with the Yeltsins and Chubais of that era, especially since it wasn’t a space and nuclear superpower back then, but a semi-literate agrarian country, devastated by war and racked up debts.
The whole question is what will save Russia now, with its renegades and "elite", that is, body and soul, with the West.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Per se.

What will save Russia now?

As at all times - the Russian people.

[ZnachWest]

Wilhelm would claim that it was the Lord again.

[Edward Vashchenko]

My personal opinion is that the Civil War should be viewed as a turmoil in the country.

Good morning,
Let me leave a short comment.
The word "Time of Troubles" was first used by G.K. Kotoshikhin (1630–1667) in relation to any uprisings; he was, of course, primarily interested in events such as the Copper Riot of 1662.
But this term took root in historiography precisely in relation to the beginning of the 17th century.
The Time of Troubles is absolutely a "civil war" and nothing else.
It is symbolic that A.I. Denikin titled his work "Essays on the Russian Time of Troubles."
Modern researchers (non-judgmental opinion) consider three civil wars in the history of Russia: the first, in the first half of the 15th century - a reaction to the collapse of the neighboring territorial community, the second, at the beginning of the 17th century, the same Time of Troubles, the "feudal revolution", the third, 1918-1922, the socialist revolution.

P.S. The article is definitely a plus.

[glock-17]

The Whites' main problem was that they were more military than political. They didn't make promises they couldn't keep. They could have distributed land to the peasants, and after victory, stipulated that the harvest would be sold to the state at fixed prices. They could have distributed factories to the workers, and then stipulated that the profits would be distributed at the state's discretion. Of course, there would be discontent, but punitive forces would have to be formed in advance.

[hohol95]

The White military promised to return the factories and plants to their former owners.
Return the land to the landowners, and harshly exact retribution from the peasantry for the "illegal redistribution of land"!

[Illanatol]

"...and we'll hang...we'll hang later!"
Well, "your honors" didn't have the patience, they started hanging people en masse right away, during the Civil War.
These "whites" didn't give a damn about the country; by and large, they treated the Russian people like work animals that went berserk when they refused to support these gentlemen any longer.

[glock-17]

Any civil war cannot be viewed as a struggle between good and evil. The struggle for power is waged through violent means. So, terror was no less characteristic of the Reds. And the victor will always whitewash himself and place himself on the side of "good," even if achieved through violence.

[Illanatol]

Civil war is the most democratic choice of development path imaginable. Back then, all possible paths and scenarios were on display in Russia: from a potential parliamentary republic to a dictatorship of any stripe. In a real civil war, the winner is the one with the majority of the socially active population. It's easy to convince people to check the box for themselves, but convincing them to fight for your ideals and values ​​is more difficult. And then the majority went for the "Reds," a fact remains.
As for cruelty, yes, there was plenty of it, and it wasn't always driven by ideological conflict. And cruelty is more natural and forgivable for those who have been oppressed and exploited for centuries than for the oppressors.

[ZnachWest]

Read General Turkul's memoirs about the Ice March, including the reorientation of captured Red Army soldiers. It's something to think about...

[Doccor18]

Quote: Glock-17

The main problem with the Whites was that they were more military than politicians.

The main problems of the White movement:
1. lack of unity
2. lack of an idea (the old has rotted and died, and the new has not been born)
3. a manic aversion to his own people, called the "rabble" (by the way, Lenin, so hated by the "crust bakers," easily met with soldiers and sailors, with workers and peasants, and more than once...)

[glock-17]

Yes, the White movement was disorganized and largely reactionary to the Bolsheviks' rise to power. The same Komuch and the Siberian Government spent more time talking than doing anything. They should have given more authority to military leaders like Kappel and fed the people more lies, but they dabbled in democracy during military operations.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Glock-17

They should have given more powers to military leaders like Kappel and pulled the wool over the people's eyes, but they dabbled in democracy during military operations.

A "red" dictatorship wasn't to your taste; would you have preferred a "brown" dictatorship? The only real alternative back then was fascism. Or the complete collapse of the country and the absorption of what remained by its neighbors.
And what would the consequences be and where would all this lead the country?

[glock-17]

Fascism in a multinational country is a suicidal path. They could have recognized the elections to the Constituent Assembly and pursued a parliamentary republic. But the Bolsheviks didn't need that at all. It ran counter to their ideology. They needed a world revolution and the destruction of the bourgeoisie as a class. Who ordered it can only be guessed at.
The mistake of the Provisional Government was that it underestimated the Bolsheviks' ability to manipulate mass consciousness and did not create an equivalent of assault squads to disperse and arrest troublemakers.

[VENOM]

almost three times – 294%

In times 4

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander_Makedonskov

On Gorokhovaya Street

On Gorokhovaya Street
There is a magic house-
You go there as a young man,
You come out as an old man

Soviet folklore...1930-1950

[3x3zsave]

Soviet folklore...1930-1950
During the specified period of time, this ditty was not about Gorokhovaya No. 2, but about Shpalernaya No. 25.

[Olgovich]

Before 1934 Leningrad State Pedagogical University on Gorokhovaya

[3x3zsave]

The pre-trial detention center was still on Shpalernaya.

[Reptiloid]

Exactly! The Bolshevik Red Terror, immediately after the Revolution and in all subsequent years, was carried out exclusively by the legislative branch. Both in the capitals and farther afield, according to the laws of the time. The White Guards, however, killed people at their own discretion, without any consideration, with horrific cruelty.

[know]

There's a commotion on Gorokhovaya Street,
Uritsky arms the entire Cheka

Farther:

It's all because I'm going to St. Petersburg on my tour.
The thieves come from Odessa.

That is, the fight against criminals, which the Cheka was also actively involved in.
And the song, of course, is the worst example of criminal "pseudo-chanson", which, thank God, has long gone out of fashion.

[know]

The hatred between the "masters" and the common people in Tsarist Russia was immense. Indeed, it seems the "masters" hated and despised their own people more than the common people hated their masters. Read the memoirs of émigrés (including Bunin's "Cursed Days") and the pages are simply saturated and dripping with poison.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: vet

If you read the memoirs of emigrants (and even Bunin's "Cursed Days"), the pages are simply saturated and oozing with poison.

The apogee of this hatred was the traitor Krasnov, mentioned in the article, with his double Russia. It's no surprise that the Whites lost miserably with such an approach.

In 1914, those who sought to destroy Russia—world Freemasonry—finally succeeded in dragging her into war. And the best people began to perish. And when they perished, that drunken, lousy Rus', denying everything, laughing at everything, raised its head and, in a matter of hours, stripped away the remnants of the beauty of the former Rus', Tsarist Rus', Imperial Rus'...
And so the Soviet Republic emerged. Lenin became its personification. You've seen his portraits! After all, he's that same drunken man, covered in lice, dirty, and worthless, only dressed in a short jacket and anointed with party erudition...

[Luminman]

Quote: vet

The hatred between the "masters" and the common people in Tsarist Russia was very great.

Now isn't it?

[Doccor18]

Quote: Luminman

is not it?

It's only the beginning...

[Reptiloid]

Quote: vet

...the feeling that the "masters" hated and despised their people more than the people despised their masters. Read the memoirs of émigrés (and even Bunin's "Cursed Days")—the pages are simply saturated and oozing with poison.

It's interesting that Bunin, Nabokov, and other Russian writers, who hadn't been published freely before, began to be published and sold freely in the 80s. People tried to buy books, overpaid, and turned in waste paper. There was a book shortage.

[know]

Denikin was going to put Shkuro on trial “for arbitrary rule and the destruction of occupied territories”... Shkuro knew about this and said:
We'll break through the front, enter Moscow - and then I'll drink for three days, hang whoever I need to and shoot someone in the forehead.

It's a pity he didn't hang him, at least this sadist wouldn't have gotten himself into trouble collaborating with the Nazis.

[hohol95]

Who would command the Cossacks then?
Rumor has it that in 1812, the Cossacks of Ataman Platov captured a French convoy carrying property from Moscow churches.
Platov ordered that this church property be sent to the churches of the Don and Kuban.
And he didn’t give a damn about all the indignation of the Moscow priests!
Of course, there was other property in those convoys.
It all went to the Cossack villages.
Maybe they're lying, maybe they're not...

[Olgovich]

Quote: vet

I hope this sadist doesn't get dirty by collaborating with the Nazis.

The Red "heroes of the Civil War" are much more famous people and have become tainted by collaboration with the Nazis (see the sentences of the Supreme Court of the USSR): the founder of the Red Army, Trotsky (with 1918), Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army Tukhachevsky, his deputies, all army commanders, commissars of the 1st and 2nd ranks, etc. members of the Politburo and so forth

[Reptiloid]

This is what Churchill said:

It would be a mistake to think, that throughout this year we have been fighting on the front lines for the cause of the Russians hostile to the Bolsheviks On the contrary, the Russian White Guards fought for our business.

Note for Olgovich.
Having read various speeches by Churchill, I am sure that his emotions match my emoticons.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Reptiloid

It would be a mistake to think, wassat tongue angry, that throughout this entire year we fought on the fronts for the cause of the Russians hostile to the Bolsheviks.

it said for their who refused to support the whites.
In 1920, he dedicated the fifth volume of The World Crisis to the latter: "To our faithful allies and comrades, the soldiers of the Russian Imperial Army"

Like Churchill, get:

"Civilization is disappearing over a vast territory, and on the ruins of cities, amidst mountains of corpses, the Bolsheviks are jumping and raging like disgusting baboons."

"They are waging an endless war against civilization. Their goal is to destroy all institutions of power, all governments, all states existing in the world. They strive to create an international union of the poor, criminals, the incompetent, the rebels, the sick, and the fools, which will encompass the entire world.

They pitted classes and peoples against each other in a fratricidal war. (...) They threw man, this crown of 20th century civilization, back to the Stone Age, made him a barbarian. (...) This is progress! This is freedom!

[Reptiloid]

In this way, you supported me. FOR YOUR OWN PEOPLE!! These are real, genuine thoughts, not chaff and pretty words for cannon fodder.
Here are the words of the American interventionist general, William Graves

In Eastern Siberia, for every person killed by the Bolsheviks, a hundred were killed by anti-Bolshevik elements.

[tatra]

With the freedom from the communists given to the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people by Gorbachev, they all proved that there is nothing good or useful for the country and the people in them, or even more or less normal or rational.
Here, they simultaneously praise the White Guards, the White Cossacks, who unleashed the war against the Bolsheviks and their supporters, erect monuments to them, and at the same time, blame the Bolsheviks for unleashing the war after the October Revolution.

[know]

You can't command your heart. No one has yet figured out that Bolsheviks married on orders from the party leadership. Or that Jewish women married Bolsheviks, fulfilling the orders of some Masonic "Rabbis' Council."

[VLR]

Jewish women married Bolsheviks, fulfilling the orders of some Masonic "Council of Rabbis"

In Judaism, a marriage between a Jewish woman and a "goy" is considered a terrible misalliance. However, their children are still recognized as Jews. However, children of a Jewish man and a woman of another nationality are not recognized as Jews. Because:

"Three things cannot be discovered: the trace of a fish in a river, the trace of a snake on a stone, and the trace of a man in a woman."

And who knows who this goy gave birth to - what if it wasn't from a Jew?

[know]

In Judaism, the marriage of a Jewish woman to a "goy" is considered a terrible misalliance...
And who knows who this goy gave birth to - what if it wasn't from a Jew?

If you look at it objectively, these poor, oppressed, and persecuted Jews are the most stubborn racists, and they're not the least bit embarrassed about it. "God's chosen people," who, according to their own Old Testament, are allowed to commit genocide against peoples occupying territories they like, and much more.

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: VlR

However, children from a Jew and a woman of another nationality are not recognized as Jews.

So, Ilyich's mother wasn't Jewish?! Why then do they reproach him for Blank (see below)?
We can also recall the Russian general Rokhlin

[know]

Ilyich's mother also had German and Swedish ancestry, but for some reason, she's never called German or Swedish. But for some reason, "purists" calculate Jewish blood down to hundredths of a percent.

[Illanatol]

Quote: VlR

However, children from a Jew and a woman of another nationality are not recognized as Jews.

Sometimes even someone with no Jewish blood at all can be recognized as a Jew. One can become a Jew if the local rabbi gives his consent and the candidate undergoes all the necessary rituals.
Therefore, Jews can be very different in appearance. As one Jewish acquaintance noted: "Israel is a place where Jews of different races have gathered."

[VLR]

But Judaism is a unique religion in the sense that it does not welcome missionary activity and proselytism. Because the Lord made irrevocable promises specifically to the sons of Israel, and there's no point in trying to get in on things, "getting into someone else's business." And in the Talmud (tractate Yevamot, 47b) it's clearly written:

"Israel is as hard hit by proselytes as by a plague."

[VLR]

In modern Israel, there are now "first-class" Jews—the Sephardim. And there are second- and third-class Jews. The former "ours" are Ashkenazi, closer to the second class.

[Sergej1972]

In fact, Ashkenazi Jews founded the State of Israel and dominated it for a long time, and they still hold a dominant position today. Leading politicians and the wealthiest people in Israel are Ashkenazi.

[Reptiloid]

There are languages ​​like Biblical Hebrew, considered dead; it has no punctuation marks or modern numbering (numbers = letters). Aramaic, also dead, is the language of Ashkenazi, also known as Yiddish, Sephardic, and Middle Eastern and African Jews. The official language of Israel is modern Hebrew, artificially created from Biblical Hebrew in the late 19th century. The letters are the same, the words are different, as is the grammar. In Russia, we have local Ashkenazi dialects. Thus, it turns out that many Russian runners were unable to learn Hebrew! I'm still remembering the Pugacheva family and the actor Bely. Although, maybe they teach it and try. But Hebrew has a different logic than Russian: words are written from right to left, there are no vowels, like ancient Egyptian and ancient Phoenician.

[Reptiloid]

In general, the tablet often "corrects" word endings at its own discretion, sometimes splitting words and rewriting them. It even rearranges words in a sentence! I don't always have time to comment.
For a long time, Jews rarely had numbers greater than 1000, or at least rarely. They never had numbers greater than a million. And the number zero didn't exist. Modern Jews aren't particularly concerned about this, as Israel doesn't yet have house numbers, floor numbers, or apartment numbers with such numbers. But if you need to calculate something complex and scientific, it's perfectly fine to use Arabic numerals! Feuchtwanger wrote that it was the Sephardim who first introduced Arabic numerals, paper, and the very concept of zero to Europe, and that this numbering system initially met with disapproval from the Catholics of the time, being considered "Muslim magic." So there you have it.

[Illanatol]

No. In Israel, it's quite fashionable and cool to look "Nordic." And not only in Israel. There are many actors with Jewish roots in Hollywood, but most of them aren't dark-skinned or brown-eyed.
Regarding "proselytism," Jews are very selective in accepting the rich, influential, and famous. Quite pragmatic, given the small number of Jews in general.

By the way, some of our former “friends” in Israel reached the top of their careers.

[VLR]

Sephardim are immigrants from the Iberian Peninsula, exiled since the time of the Catholic Monarchs (Isabella and Ferdinand) and their mentor, Torquemada. In modern Hebrew, Sephardim are called "Spaniards"—meaning "super-Jews." They have always considered the less cultured and educated Jews of Eastern and Central Europe (Ashkenazim) to be second-class citizens. In the synagogues of Amsterdam and London, as late as the 18th century, only Sephardim were allowed to sit, while Ashkenazim stood, often behind a partition. Marriages between Sephardim and Ashkenazim were strictly discouraged. Moreover, these two groups of Jews spoke different languages: Sephardim spoke Ladino, Ashkenazim spoke Yiddish. The "third-class" were the Mizrahi, immigrants from Asia and Africa of non-Spanish origin—Jews from Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Iran, and India.
The pride of the Sephardim can be judged by the remark of the British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, who arrogantly declared in the House of Lords:

“When the ancestors of my esteemed opponent were savages on an unknown island, my ancestors were priests in the Temple of Jerusalem.”

[Sergej1972]

Yet, without exception, all Israeli prime ministers are Ashkenazi. Not a single Sephardi among them, nor has there ever been one. And among ministers, prominent politicians, and Israel's wealthiest people, Ashkenazi Jews predominate. Every single ethnology and ethnography textbook, as well as the English-language Wikipedia entry, speaks of Ashkenazi dominance. And the fact that until recently, Sephardim occupied a marginal position, living primarily in the outlying and less prestigious areas of Israel. Something doesn't add up.

[VLR]

Ashkenazim, even wealthy ones, were considered inferior citizens in Europe, unlike Sephardim, who, in addition to commercial activities, were actively involved in politics and held high positions, like Disraeli. Three Sephardim served as prime ministers of Italy and one of Spain. The first American (not Spanish) mayor of San Francisco and governor of California were Sephardim. But the term "Sephardim" often mistakenly refers to anyone who is not Ashkenazi, including Mizrahi, who occupy a marginal position. Sephardim, however, remain an elite, intellectual and political. But they are fewer in number than everyone else. Ordinary Ashkenazim in Israel even complain that in this country it is better to be poor than Ashkenazi—especially the first generation, who know neither the language nor the traditions. Only the second generation has any chance of achieving a more or less prominent position, and most often it is the third generation, the grandchildren of those who arrived.
Incidentally, there's another interesting rivalry: the Rothschilds are Ashkenazi, the Rockefellers are Sephardim. An irreconcilable rivalry. Then there are the "Old Sephardim" (the Santander group), closely connected to the Vatican: these "intellectuals" and intellectuals initially traded in the relics of saints, but now control the antiques and art markets.

[Sergej1972]

These famous people were politicians in the countries you mentioned, not in Israel. Academic and educational literature unequivocally states that Ashkenazim are dominant in Israel. Why, if Sephardim are Israel's elite, are there not a single prime minister among them? You can't deny that, can you?

[VLR]

Why aren't there Rockefellers among US presidents, or Rothschilds among British prime ministers? Why do they need temporary, purely technical positions if they control the Federal Reserve and the City? There are, on the one hand, more Ashkenazi Jews in Israel than Sephardim, and on the other, they are more educated and cultured than Mizrahi Jews, so they are more visible. But the Sephardim are still the most influential and respected group.

[Sergej1972]

In short, you haven't convinced me. You know you're wrong, though. But you have to save face.

[VLR]

Incidentally, I'd also point out that Israel is a small country that can only survive in a hostile environment thanks to the Jewish lobby in the United States, and to a lesser extent, in other countries. And then, for Jews, positions, positions, and influence are more important in these countries than in the "Promised Land."

[Reptiloid]

Hello, dear Valery. ! Thanks for the wonderful article! Lots of facts and photos.
About the Jews. In general, Sphared in Hebrew Spain. A Mitzraim --- Egypt. Therefore, the terms Sephardic and Mizrahi are understandable. Something like that.
P.S. About half of the words in the Sephardic language are Arabic. And native speakers use both square letters and Arabic script for their language.

[Illanatol]

Quote: VlR

By the way, there is another interesting confrontation: the Rothschilds are Ashkenazi, the Rockefellers are Sephardim.

The Rockefellers are mere nouveau riche compared to the Rothschild clan, which has entangled most Western countries and even penetrated Asia. However, their "irreconcilable rivalry" may simply be a struggle between Nanai boys; they know how to negotiate and divide spheres of influence.
And in general, it's often not purebred Jews who rule, but half-breeds. Sephardi, Ashkenazi... are you sure such details and peculiarities matter so much in their circles? Maybe it's all just on a superficial, everyday level. Because true elitists couldn't care less about such details, or any of these biblical obfuscations. They're ruthlessly pragmatic, and any ideals are a dead giveaway to them, although they're not above exploiting the dogmatism and fanaticism of others.
Let us not forget that the sharp increase in the influence of the Jewish tribe occurred due to the emergence and spread of Protestantism, which is a hybrid of Judaism and Christianity, but is equally a heresy for both orthodox (Catholic) Christians and Jews.

So this division of Jews into different groups isn't all that significant; it's not ethnicity that rules, but class. If you have billions of dollars in capital, you're part of the family; if not, get lost; the poor have nothing to do with it...

[VLR]

R. Abramovich also thought billions of dollars were enough to make him one of the insiders. He even bought Chelsea FC for added respectability. But it turned out that even billions of dollars, coupled with Jewish nationality, weren't enough to gain entry into the "inner circle": he was cynically and demonstratively stripped bare in front of the respectable public. Meanwhile, Berezovsky was given soap and rope for free in England. Apparently, something else is needed to be allowed a glimpse into the "global backstage."

[Illanatol]

Of course. And who is Abramovich if not a nouveau riche and a representative of compratador capital, merely a steward of the real masters of life?
They allowed him to get rich, and then completely ruined him. And nothing would have changed for Abramovich even if he were 120% Sephardi (he doesn't look much like an Ashkenazi, by the way).
As for Berezovsky, it's unknown who wrote him a ticket to hell. It's not a given that it was his fellow tribesmen.

[Reptiloid]

Greetings, Valery, these two were thinking "purely simply" -- "I've got the ball rolling," "I've sent it to the right people," and "everything will be alright." But no. They didn't have "worthy ancestors" with a 300-year history. And this applies to the entire Russian fifth column.

[bober1982]

The author mentioned V. Volodarsky (this is a nickname), and his last name is M. Goldstein, and then comes the mention of M. Uritsky, aka Moshe ben Shlomo (Moses Solomonovich), which the author does not report, then comes the mention of G. Zinoviev (nickname), but the author does not indicate the real last name, namely Ovsey-Gershen Aronovich Radomyslsky, and so on, that is, for some reason, only one Volodarsky is indicated according to the type: nickname / real last name
General Kornilov could not have been, as the author stated, the organizer of the civil war; he was merely an active participant. With all due respect to Kornilov, he had a ram's head instead of a head (not my characterization).

[tatra]

The Jews received their greatest power precisely thanks to you, the enemies of the USSR and the Soviet people, who seized the USSR.
And, contrary to the fakes from anti-Soviet puppeteers in the West, in the first Council of People's Commissars there was only one Jew - Trotsky.

[kalibr]

Quote: tatra

The Jews received their greatest power precisely thanks to you, the enemies of the USSR.

[Illanatol]

"The true founder of the State of Israel is Adolf Hitler!"

If there had been no notorious Holocaust, the Jewish dreams of a rebirth of Israel would have remained just dreams.

[Dedok]

The author mentioned V. Volodarsky

That's how the Volodarskys made the revolution...
They fiercely hated everyone who did not agree with their opinion...
that's why the blood is on their hands first and foremost...
Just like in 37 - who led the purges?

[hohol95]

What did the "original Russian Holsteiners" do to prevent a revolutionary situation?

[know]

What did the "original Russian Holsteiners" do to prevent a revolutionary situation?

They carefully prepared it - starting with Peter the Great, under whom the division of the people began into Europeanized and Western-worshipping lords, who did not even really know the Russian language, and the disenfranchised "cattle", who were sold like cattle.

"For sale: husband and wife, 40-45 years old, good behavior, and a young brown horse."
"a boy who can comb his hair and a milking cow"
"a woman with a one-year-old boy and a 6-horsepower harness"

The people tolerated them for a long time, but "there's no end to the rope..."

[Alexey RA]

Quote: vet

They carefully prepared it - starting with Peter the Great, under whom the division of the people began into Europeanized and Western-worshipping lords, who did not even really know the Russian language, and the disenfranchised "cattle", who were sold like cattle.

In fact, even after the abolition of serfdom, the division between masters and cattle did not go away.

The soldier is taught in words about the high rank of the warrior, and not so long ago on the fences of parks, squares and at the entrances during the walk, he could read "Do not drive dogs", and next to them - "The lower ranks are not allowed to enter." The order on such streets for the lower ranks not to walk, I had to read not so long ago in the orders for the garrison.

© Count F.A. Keller is a monarchist to the core

But not only the charter and custom placed unnecessary restrictions on the soldier in everyday life, but also the public. Non-military people who said “you” to a tramp considered themselves entitled to address a soldier as “you”. Not anecdotes, but true facts - inscriptions over the entrance to some public places: “dogs and lower ranks are strictly forbidden to enter” ...
And the soldier remembered in the 17th year of “dog” comparisons! I recalled that for many months across the face of the country, public places had become inaccessible, streets impassable, roads impassable.

© Denikin

Gentlemen Even within their own ranks, they divided themselves into classes. It's enough to recall the navy with its "white-knuckle" line officers and the "outcaste castes" of naval technical specialists—mechanics and navigators, who weren't even entitled to naval ranks. It's mind-boggling—on a ship whose very existence depends on the operation of its engines and the precision of determining its position and course, BC-1 and BC-5 were considered not naval enough.

[nznz]

I think you are mistaken.
The division of naval officers into castes did not occur during service.
Admission to higher education institutions was strictly limited by rules.
For example, only nobles, children of colonels, etc. could enter the Naval Corps.
Therefore, command posts on the island were occupied by graduates of schools in which there was no lower class.
Navigators and other specialists were trained at other schools and were only available for technical positions. As the saying goes, everything had already been divided before us.

[Reptiloid]

These aren't nicknames, but revolutionary pseudonyms, Vladimir. You should know that. You'd be better off remembering with respect your socialist youth, the Ulyanov brothers, and your parents. Come to your senses.

[bober1982]

Quote: Reptiloid

It would be better to remember with respect your socialist youth,

Don't make me laugh, Dima, that very youth was spent in a half-drunken, depraved and atheistic frenzy.
I'd like to cross out my whole life and start over... M. Nozhkin, song - I drank birch sap in the spring forest -

[Reptiloid]

in a half-drunken, depraved and atheistic frenzy

Oh, I don't believe it! You're slandering yourself from the perspective of today's liberalism. You and your two brothers had a wonderful Soviet youth.

[Illanatol]

Don't make me laugh, Dima, that very youth was spent in a half-drunken, depraved and atheistic frenzy.

So who exactly is to blame: Marx and Engels or Vladimir Ilyich?
Well, yes, under Nicholas V, for example, youth would have been different... like Lieutenant Golitsyn's... although wait, these "noblemen" also led a lifestyle that was not entirely sober and highly moral...

[Reptiloid]

We don't know who would have had a youth like a lieutenant back then, or like a worker in a factory barracks with a 12-16 hour workday... Now, for some reason, some people think that under the Tsar they would have had the same status as today, that they would have been lords. Which is wrong. It wouldn't have worked out from the oppressed classes.

[VLR]

Exactly. All the "Khrustobakniks" are convinced that in Tsarist Russia they were aristocrats, hanging out at balls and dinner parties, wearing beautiful guards uniforms or the respectable attire of high-ranking officials. The young ladies and ladies all imagine themselves to be princesses and countesses. But in reality, they were perpetually hungry peasants or factory workers.

[Reptiloid]

Social mobility and universal education under the USSR gave new opportunities to people from the common people.

[nznz]

Not all.
Short.
1. There are no winners in the Great Patriotic War. Everyone is a victim.
2. Among the Khrusto bakers, the number of irreconcilable ones is small.
Humans are designed in such a way that they first lie to themselves, then believe it and begin to lie to others.
We do not choose our ancestors.
I knew little about my own. Yesterday there were photographs of some military men and young ladies, cropped for obvious reasons.
Genealogy has made many facts that I considered myths and nonsense credible with documents. I have learned so much, my head will explode.
Virodu has many officers on my grandmother's side, officers since the time Georgia was accepted into the Republic of Ingushetia.
It so happened that my Grushinsky ancestors served their Georgian king, tavad.
Those retinues called them Aznaurs.
When transferred to the Russian estates, my people were transferred and recognized as hereditary nobles. The Supreme Decree and the decisions of the Synod are all there, as well as the decision of the Tsar's viceroy in Georgia.
On the other line of the grandfather, the elders, there is one bishop (Alexy) of Borovsky and a vicar of Kaluga.
Two grandmothers, Smolny, etc.
Do you know what these people have in common?
Very modest content.
My great-grandfather retired, wounded, three wars. Pension 515 rubles for a family with 9 children.
Many or few?
First daughter (my direct grandmother)
Issue 74 1906 lived in Smolny on her own allowance. It was cheaper that way since they brought her food.
At 16, after graduation, she married a doctor she knew, a colonel, and went to Manchuria. She suffered a terrible bubonic plague epidemic. In 1920, her daughter, then Colonel Bondarev, left for Crimea. They were not married, but their grandmother met a widower and that's how they lived.
There's cholera in Crimea. Health Minister D. Ulyanov is sending Bondareva with a medical train to eliminate it.
Bondarev eventually falls ill and dies.
They sent my grandmother a certificate as a widow, according to the church's birth certificate, and this piece of paper saved my grandmother. They enforced her will, but they didn't kill or imprison her.
A noble house in St. Petersburg. The Pushkin Museum. The Tami-Mois extended throughout the blockade and even after until the 1960s.
Now I'm fighting with the museum to restore the memorial plaque about the residents of 15 apartments who survived the siege. They tore it down when they did the European-style renovation. That's wrong.
D. Ulyanov was quite the eccentric. He was courting Fanny Kaplan back then. If only he had known...
My second grandmother, Tamara, class of 1913, with a silver medal, already took out a loan because her father died and the widow couldn’t afford it.
Well, it's a long story, that's not what I'm talking about...
So, to sum it up, I will say that my ancestors, who were in some sense noble, were not rich.
The peasants and the working class were not exploited; Colonel Beridze's house was a small, one-story building with constant problems of what to live on.
What crunch does a French roll make?
What are you talking about? An old, slightly crippled officer...he was barely making ends meet.
His children Boris Beridze Georgy posthumously.
The elder Dmitry fought with the Russian-Chinese and St. George weapons and the St. George 4th century and many other military awards.
Vladimir, a 1913 Naval Corps graduate, managed to fight. But everyone died. Only Dmitry went abroad.
This is the kind of life we ​​have. No luxury, no diamonds.
I don't think Dmitry took part in any civil war. He lost nothing except his homeland and the graves of his ancestors and brothers. He has no property, no money, and no motivation to go and take anything from anyone.
I look at my stories and I understand that they were ordinary people who lived and achieved something through their work.
And it was difficult to take anyone's side. There was nothing.
The Bolsheviks won.
Fate brought the remaining relatives to Taganrog. They were deprived of the right to work and anything else. They lived by private lessons. Life was very difficult.
Tamara, who graduated from Smolny in 1913, fought voluntarily as a nurse.
After her fiancé was hacked to death before her very eyes, she took a vow of celibacy and died quite early.
My grandmother worked in St. Petersburg and taught languages ​​at universities in Leningrad.
And believe me, I never heard from her or my parents any words of hatred towards the system or the authorities.
She probably somehow distanced herself from it. But she loved her homeland.
The authorities change, the Motherland remains.


Voeva

[nznz]

It won't let me edit. Sorry for the mistakes.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: nznz

It won't let me edit. Sorry for the mistakes.

these are not mistakes

this is ---- different

I often have this happen to me, and it's not because of my mistakes. And regarding editing, yes! Because the comment is long. And it also happens that if the comment is long, the network glitches and I can't send it, and all my work is lost. That's why I often split it. Otherwise, it's a HUGE MISERY! It's very interesting that you wrote a biography, and I have an explanation for why. And I can tell you the biography of another family, where there were nobles, tsarist officers, and working-class workers. That's not my family. My ancestors are the poorest peasants. And highly skilled Moscow workers, also from the villages in the past. That was before the revolution. But not now. A little later, in the evening.

[nznz]

On my mother's side, I have peasants from the Kostroma province.
So I can imagine both the life of peasants and the life of ordinary nobles, not rich ones.

[Reptiloid]

Sorry, I haven't been on the site. Here's what some friends have. The widow of a Tsarist officer with three children immediately married a Red. And wearing a red headscarf, she began campaigning. Then she gradually gave birth to four more children and was always an activist. Her second husband adopted all the children. But everyone criticized her for her origins. She left no artifacts from that pre-revolutionary era. When her husband died in WWII, she was slandered for her origins... She got away with it. And as her children said, she was always afraid, you never know what might happen.

[nznz]

I know. They didn't touch my grandmother's, but they compacted it. She and my grandfather lived at Svoika 12.
15 apartments, each with a separate entrance.
Pushkin at 1. Mine at 15. I'm looking at her work record. During Stalin's time, she changed jobs frequently, but the commendations are scratched out. It turns out she has a different origin, etc. All the photos are cropped; photos of her brother officers miraculously survived. They died in World War I.
My father graduated from Petrishule and knew languages ​​very well. Plus, his mother and aunt, who were Smolensk natives, taught him at home. He entered the 3rd grade straight away.
Then construction. While still at school, he worked on construction sites in parallel. He mastered carpentry and was a foreman.
After his second year at the construction school, he went to the naval academy. Against his father's wishes, he refused financial support, saying, "Go ahead, since you're so brazen." He graduated from the naval academy as a radio operator. He did an internship on the Caspian Sea in the mid-1930s. A nobleman stood up for a woman in a restaurant and was stabbed in the stomach.
I read the medical record. The patient was very drunk, but joked, and had lost a lot of blood. He underwent emergency surgery.
Took a free diploma.
I went to Murmansk. My friends were already there.
Three lifelong friends from before the war.
Long-distance captain, captain-mentor Igor Stepanovich Stepanov.
He served in a penal battalion. He was the son of a merchant and physically very strong. He ended up in the penal battalion because of the Russian disease. During the war, he and a friend met and drank a little cologne, which they issued in a liter bottle. As a result, they both missed the ship.
Washed away with blood, cleared mines around the new land and became a captain in peacetime.
My second friend, a legend in our family chronicles: Igor Valentinovich Skachevsky.
The son of a famous doctor.
A sea captain. There was a schooner called Tovarishch. It was featured in Scarlet Sails.
Skach was a handsome man, a Georg Ots type... rumor has it he had an affair with Vertinskaya. Skach stood behind the young Lanovoy-Grey and gave commands to the car and the sailors of the sailing ship. Lanovoy stole Vertinskaya from him. He was also handsome in his youth.
I'm shortening it.
In December 1939, my father was transferred from Dezhnev to the linear icebreaker Joseph Stalin. The radio operators were reinforced—there were three of them, I think, with eight-hour shifts. The expedition was commanded by I.D. Papanin. There was a pool of Moscow journalists, and Carmen, the cameraman.
The steamship Georgy Sedov was rescued on January 23, 1940. Badigin was acting as captain, and then luck struck. It was pulled into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and sloshed to land there. If it had been pulled around, they would have disappeared like Rusanov.
Everyone was awarded. It was raining awards. My father laughed and said that he was presenting the second gold star to Papanin.
Those are government radiograms.
My father wasn't given anything. I wrote to the FSB Reception about 20 years ago, asking if there was a reason related to his background or non-partisanship. The answer was no, there were no complaints. He probably wasn't on the team's payroll.
Everything I'm describing has documentation: my father's icebreaker pass with the note "Access Everywhere"... and a transfer certificate from Yukaghir to Stalin from Port Captain Voronin.
My father was only allowed to retire at the age of 60.
He met with Papanin. He wanted to go to sea. He sat down. "Seryoga, as a unit commander, it will take you 5 years or more to get a visa. And then the doctors will break it down."
I was at Kacharava's, he was the head of the Black Sea shipping company. Everyone knows Sibiryakov and his feat. He had cabotage on the Black Sea. He gave me two photos as a memento of his youth.
He was friends with Krenkel as a VHF radio operator.
But he died a year earlier.
I'm looking now, Gatchina is hard to reach, but I'm also overpowered by laziness. I want to know the period from January 40 to 41. My father was at Dezhnev, and did he go to the Finnish school or not.

[Reptiloid]

Yes, family history. Ancestors, their lives. I respect them.

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

It wouldn't have worked out from the oppressed classes.

Dima! I've written many times about how my great-grandfather was a simple railroad worker in Morshansk. He moved to Penza, where the railroad was bigger. He didn't drink or smoke. He rose to the rank of locomotive workshop foreman. He was even a chief foreman (meaning he didn't have a college degree). He gave all his children a high school education. My grandfather's brother, Leonid Taratynov, eventually became a famous teacher in Penza, my grandfather was the head of the city education department during WWII, his sister (the "White Guard..." as she was called in our family because she was married to a Cossack captain) was a French teacher, another brother taught math, and another sister taught music. There's a famous barge hauler who saved up and bought a shipping company. He also didn't drink away his earnings... So, it all happened.

[Reptiloid]

I know about your great-grandfather, Vyacheslav Olgovich From your autobiographies. But these are exceptions rather than rules. My great-grandfather, from the poorest peasants after participating in World War I, somehow rose through the ranks and, after various leadership positions before retirement, also became a school principal. Like your grandfather. But that was during the Soviet era.

[kalibr]

Quote: Reptiloid

But this was during the Soviet era.

Pyotr Akindinovich Titov (1843–1894) was a self-taught Russian shipbuilder and chief engineer of the Franco-Russian Shipyard in St. Petersburg. He built the battleships Imperator Nikolai I and Navarin, as well as other vessels of various ranks and classes, for the Russian Imperial Navy. He was an inventor and innovator, an innovator in shipbuilding technology, and developed a new method of processing shipbuilding steel, perfected the process of riveting, marking, and punching holes in steel plates used to construct ship hulls. He also invented the caisson for repairing the underwater hull of ships without docking. He was born a peasant and died before the Soviet Union came into power. There are many such examples.

[Reptiloid]

Of course, we can cite examples from the time of Peter the Great! All sorts of things happened. Incidentally, it was from that time that Russian science began to develop.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: kalibr

Originally from peasants

From very special peasants.

Peter's father, descended from Ryazan peasants, worked as an engineer on a steamship on the Petrozavodsk-Kronstadt line. In 1855, Peter began working as his father's assistant on the steamship, and in winter, he worked as a laborer at the Kronstadt steamship factory.

And then, at the plant, Titov worked in the production and drawing workshops, that is, with drawings and templates.

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexey RA

started his working career as an assistant

And how many peasants began their lives as handymen, porters, stokers, or barge haulers? And they could easily have saved up enough money for anything. All they had to do was not drink and not buy an accordion! However, Gorky's novel "Mother" already touched on this...

[Illanatol]

"A lot" is a relative term. Denikin's ancestors were serfs. But the descendants of most former serfs had far less enviable careers.

"A cow can drown in a river that is, on average, knee-deep."

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

Most of the former serfs had far less enviable careers.

That's why the revolution happened. But... the few who rose to the top were the best people. And after the revolution, it wasn't just the best who rose to the top, but all sorts.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

That's why the revolution happened. But... the few who rose to the top were the best people. And after the revolution, it wasn't just the best who rose to the top, but all sorts.

Are you sure? Under any "ism," all sorts of people rise to the top, alas. It was the same under Tsarism. Yes, talent was desirable, but sometimes it was used, as a classic put it, "for vile purposes."
However, the renewal of the elite and excessive casteism are also not beneficial. And let's not forget who was in the last emperor's entourage and provided the initial impetus for the events that led to the Revolution.
These courtiers and generals of Nicholas II deserve to be awarded the Order of Lenin for their contribution to the victory of October.

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

These courtiers and generals of Nicholas II deserve to be awarded the Order of Lenin for their contribution to the victory of October.

80 and 20. It has always been this way and will be this way in the future.

[Illanatol]

Quote: kalibr

80 and 20. It has always been this way and will be this way in the future.

A hint at the "Pareto principle"? Unfortunately, not everyone recognizes its validity in social processes.
Well, you could have written something like: "there are "ubers", there are "unters", that's how it was and that's how it will be."
We shouldn't get too carried away with the biologization of social processes.
There are still times when "the last become first," and those who were "first" turn out to be the last ******...

[kalibr]

Quote: Illanatol

There are still times when "the last become first," and those who were "first" turn out to be the last ******...

Sometimes a girl's husband dies, but the widow's husband lives on. Doesn't everyone recognize it? To hell with them!! I'm for those who do!

[nznz]

I read about it in Academician Krylov.
Titov's eye was more accurate than instrumental measurement.

[nznz]

Well, why not?
Revolutions repulse me because, like in the joke, no matter how you organize it, the outcome is again the privileged strata and the people. Everything is as it was, only the name and the design change.
Elite party nomenclature.
Establishments for gentlemen - GUM sections 200 and distributors.
Etc.

[bober1982]

Quote: Illanatol

So who exactly is to blame?

Evil tongues claim that there are 7 (seven) gravediggers of youth:
- disbelief in God
- drunkenness
- debauchery
- bad company
- anger
- disrespect for parents
- idleness

[Reptiloid]

That's it. That's it. Disrespect for parents. If parents named their three sons after the Ulyanov brothers, then the sons should remember that.

[Illanatol]

You shouldn't trust evil tongues unconditionally.
I am a convinced atheist, but I do not consider my youth to have been ruined by this fact.
And from personal experience, I'm convinced that an excessive bias in the opposite direction can lead to a youth that's prudishly correct and well-mannered, but dull and insipid. There's no point in trying too hard to be righteous; personally, I haven't tried, and I don't regret it.

[Reptiloid]

And it's right that you don't regret it. Hypocrisy. And criticizing your youth under the USSR === teaching about repentance. If you continue, it will turn out to be hypocritical.

pay and repent

Somehow, no one abroad repents for the past and for the numerous monarchs who were killed.

[nznz]

Except for the last two, I was guilty.

[Songwolf]

The article is written more on emotion than reality. In one fell swoop, they demolish the Whites and exonerate the Reds. The quotes are cluttered and out of touch with the text.
The slander of Shchastny, who saved the Baltic squadron and for this was immediately shot by Trotsky without trial or investigation.
A stupid and vulgar article!

[october]

"defense of the fatherland", albeit a socialist one.

It's clear that the author is a baker, and under the guise of supposed "objectivity," he's trying to get the owl to fit on the globe.

[bober1982]

The author briefly mentioned the murder of Uritsky, which actually became the beginning of the official Red Terror.
But here's what Uritsky's killer, Kannegiser, said immediately after his arrest... I am a Jew, I killed a Jewish vampire who drank the blood of the Russian people.

[know]

This is what Uritsky's killer, Kannegiser, stated immediately after his arrest... I am a Jew, I killed a Jewish vampire who drank the blood of the Russian people.

However, Uritsky was an opponent of the death penalty. And his successors were very much in favor of it. So this Kannegieser is a rare imbecile.

[bober1982]

Quote: vet

so this Kannegieser is a rare imbecile

I agree, by the way, Fanny Kaplan was also a rare imbecile.

[Sergej1972]

By the way, I don’t know specifically about this Kanegisser, but in general, oddly enough, in Russia there was a noble family of Kanegissers, of Jewish origin.

[bober1982]

Quote: Sergej1972

By the way, I don’t know specifically about this Kanegisser, but in general, oddly enough, in Russia there was a noble family of Kanegissers, of Jewish origin.

I was intrigued, yes, that's right. It turns out that my grandfather's medical achievements earned him hereditary nobility (in Zhitomir). My father moved to St. Petersburg, held very high positions, and lived like a gentleman—well-groomed, nothing Jewish, only European, according to contemporaries. The entire St. Petersburg elite gathered in the house, including tsarist dignitaries, socialists, Witte, B. Savinkov, and others.
Leonid himself, a real dandy, a refined aesthete, a close friend of Yesenin, social circle - Tsvetaeva, and the entire literary elite.
Then he drops out of college, enters a cadet school (!), and leaves after the Bolsheviks come to power.
Then, out of personal revenge, he kills Uritsky
In 1992, he was denied rehabilitation as a terrorist.

[nznz]

We need to look. There were two types of nobility.
Personal. For some merits. Not inheritable.
And hereditary. inherited

[Sergej1972]

The Kanegissers were granted the rights of hereditary nobility. Hereditary nobility could also be awarded for merit. In exceptional cases, hereditary nobility could be granted personally by the emperor, as was the case with Kanegisser's grandfather. It could also be granted for long service. From 1845, hereditary nobility in military service was granted only to ranks of the 8th class and higher (captain, captain). From 1856, to obtain hereditary nobility, one had to have attained the rank of the 6th class (colonel, captain first rank). From 1845 to 1856, the rank was 5th class (privy councilor). From 1856, the rank was 4th class (actual privy councilor, equivalent in the army to major general). Before 1845, the rules were more liberal. Personal nobility was mainly granted for length of service in the military or civil service. Naturally, the requirements were less stringent compared to hereditary nobility. However, it could also be granted by imperial decree for merit.

[Victor jnnjdfy]

Probably a state councillor, not a privy councillor.

[Reptiloid]

Wonderful long article! Thank you very much Valery The most important facts have been collected. So far I have read up to the chapter about the Constituent Assembly.
Nicholas II's abdication of power, as well as the last years of his reign (especially), demonstrated both his absolute weakness and the complete venality of the liberals of that time, who hid behind slogans.

[Gardamir]

I read the comments. And you know what it reminded me of? The recent debate about the Mongol-Tatars.
The beauty of today's ideology is that they either talk about other countries or about the past.

[know]

One commenter accuses the author of "putting down white people," another of being a "crust-baker" (likely referring to "I pick up a book and see nothing"). It seems they read different articles. Or maybe they didn't, but simply wrote comments out of boredom and nothing better to do?

[october]

I was offended by the phrase

albeit socialist

[Reptiloid]

Of course, we need to talk about the past. In what context? Sometimes we hear something truly astonishing. Unfortunately, there are few venues where it's possible to preserve a dignified memory of the first socialist state, the USSR.

[ohka]

The sad thing is that, more than a hundred years later, the civil war still continues. Thank God, at least in our minds. In any civil war, there are no right parties—only guilty parties, because the majority suffers for the ambitions of the minority.

[Reptiloid]

It doesn't continue, but has been carefully fueled and is being fueled through slander against the USSR. Because this is precisely what Russia's current enemies, both foreign and domestic, need.

[Illanatol]

Good always triumphs over evil!
After all, whoever wins is the good one.

[know]

I would even say:
Good always triumphs over EVIL

[Zagrebun]

I would even say:
Good always triumphs over evil laughing

I would even say:
Good always triumphs over evil.

[Victor Leningradets]

Thank you, of course, for raising the issue, Valery.
It would be interesting to know about Pyotr Nikolaevich Wrangel if...
If the following points are objectively shown in the following article:
1. The Bolsheviks' maneuvering with the aim of international recognition and ending the Civil War
2. Contradictions within the Bolshevik government on the national question and the World Revolution
3. The intrigues of the leaders of the White Movement in the struggle for power and the role of the Entente in the fate of the anti-Bolshevik movement.

[AlexSam]

And Academician Pavlov is a handsome man!)))

I thought you were a Bolshevik, but you are a real intellectual brat.

He spoke directly about everyone today, both those who have come here recently and those who have quieted down in anticipation of NATO's victory parade on Red Square, while in between, they have changed into tricolor tracksuits for patriotic songs and dances on federal TV channels.

[nznz]

A lot of things were attributed to him later... I'm not sure that Pavlov could have said that... Lenin, he could have said that he was a prostitute and in different ways...

[Fitter65]

The methods used by Kolchak and his subordinates against dissenters can be learned from the memoirs of Major General William Sidney Graves, who commanded the American Expeditionary Force in Siberia and the Far East.

Until the mid-80s, "Kolchakite" was a swear word in many Siberian villages. It was even scarier than "fascist." My great-grandmother used to tell us how we sometimes got "horror stories." We were just too young to comprehend that there were beasts on our land even before the Nazis.

[Andobor]

My great-grandfather was killed by Kolchak's men in 19 for participating in a strike; they didn't pay him; he was a railway worker.

[Senior seaman]

Quote: Fitter65

Until the mid-80s, "Kolchakite" was a swear word in many Siberian villages.

"You should have been an operative, Father, you'd be priceless... Didn't you serve under Kolchak in your younger years? No? In counterintelligence? Honestly!... Well, why are we so embarrassed right now? I'm just asking... Did you steal ears of corn from the collective farm fields during the hard times? Now, look me in the eye, look me in the eye!"

[Fitter65]

Quote: Senior Sailor

Did you steal ears of corn from the collective farm fields during the hard times? Now, look me in the eye, look me in the eye!

Looks like you were collecting the wrong ears of corn...

[Senior seaman]

No, it's just that some people don't know the classics.
"Kalina Krasnaya" is a good example of Siberian attitudes toward Kolchak. It's a work of fiction, of course, but it's still Shukshin's work.

[Fitter65]

Quote: Senior Sailor

No, it's just that some people don't know the classics.

No, they know quite well. Just watch the scene where the character in Shukshin's "GRIEF" delivers this monologue. And who Kolchak was, the old-timers remembered well when this film was made.

[VLR]

And this is what G. Zinoviev said:
Revolution? Internationale? These are great events, but I'll burst into tears if they touch Paris.

Zinoviev had an unofficial nickname in the party: "Panic." Trotsky wrote:

When things were going badly, Zinoviev would usually lie down on the sofa, not in a metaphorical but in a real sense, and sigh.

[north 2]

Quote: vet

The hatred between the "masters" and the common people in Tsarist Russia was immense. Indeed, it seems the "masters" hated and despised their own people more than the common people hated their masters. Read the memoirs of émigrés (including Bunin's "Cursed Days") and the pages are simply saturated and dripping with poison.

Why go back so far, to Bunin? Even today, gentlemen are ready to praise that "past lordly" regime that existed before the October Revolution, and they are ready to hate the Empire that reunited and preserved the regime in the USSR. This means that they, both those of that time and these of today, fundamentally couldn't care less about Russia's imperial nature as the only state structure under which Russia can exist as an independent state, necessarily within the borders of at least the state created by our ancestors before 1917. They only see themselves as subjects desirably destined for history. Preferably, the Tsar's throne, but a governorship or, in general, closer to the Court, would do. And naturally, both those of the past and these of today spat and spat on the people. For example, today they have hired and attracted tourist guides into their service. So, on a tour of Ingushetia at the Nine Towers monument, the guide, a Russian one at that, talked constantly about the bloody despot Stalin, but not a word about the "services" for which Stalin deported the Ingush and Chechens during WWII. During the tour of Chechnya, the same guide introduced Dudayev and Maskhadov as followers of a band of bandits, but not a word about attempts to set our homeland in the Caucasus on fire, then hand over its territory to terrorist gangs and create a terrorist state there.
And on a recent tour of Yaroslavl, the guide even recounted how the majority of merchants and ordinary citizens supported the White Guard rebellion in Yaroslavl, and that this is still greatly appreciated and revered in the city. But there's one catch... If it weren't for the churches and homes built by merchants and industrialists during the time of the Tsars and Emperors, the palaces and shopping arcades, apartment buildings, and noble assemblies built then, then today, throughout European Russia, in cities (from St. Petersburg to Yaroslavl itself), there would be nothing to see...

[october]

If it weren't for the churches and houses of merchants and industrialists built during the time of the Tsars and Emperors, if it weren't for the palaces and shopping arcades, apartment buildings and houses of noble assemblies built then, then today in the cities of the entire European part of Russia (from St. Petersburg to the same Yaroslavl) there would be nothing to see...

That's not true. I think if you take the time to look for examples of Soviet architecture, you'll find a lot of interesting things.
And if you haven't tried to do this, then there's nothing to write about.
I just clicked on the first thing I saw – the installation of the Moscow State University spire. In fact, there's countless examples of Soviet architecture.

[hohol95]

Is it different in European countries?
Or do tourists travel to another country to enjoy the views of dugouts and shacks of the poor?
Or did the Russian nobility hang out in the port areas of Le Havre and Marseille before the First World War instead of the Côte d'Azur?

We shouldn't forget about the number of buildings that were destroyed in the USSR by "Teutonic Knights and Co."

[ism_ek]

Quote: north 2

Russia's imperialism as the only state structure under which Russia can exist as an independent state

Do you consider Russia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries an independent state? Imagine, after the Second World War, Russia is banned from having a fleet in the Black Sea and forced to pay reparations... Will we consider ourselves independent?
Neither Germany nor Austria posed any threat to Russia before WWI. Russia entered WWI on par with, say, India or New Zealand. Did the Allies ever help Russia in a difficult situation? And what about the humiliating dispatch of Russian soldiers to France to fight when part of the empire was occupied?
Yes, Tsarist Russia was not a colony, but it was not an independent state.

[VLR]

The humiliating dispatch of Russian soldiers to France to fight when part of the empire was occupied?

Unfortunately, not only in France. During World War I, four brigades of the Russian Expeditionary Force fought outside Russia: the First and Third fought on the Western Front in France, and the Second and Fourth on the Salonika Front. The future Soviet Marshal Malinovsky fought in France, later returning home with great difficulty through Vladivostok. In Siberia, he was nearly executed by the Reds, who, seeing documents in French, mistook him for a spy. However, a fellow countryman from Odessa, after speaking with him, declared him to be true – he was 100% a native of that city.

[Illanatol]

Quote: north 2

then today, throughout the European part of Russia, in cities (from St. Petersburg to the same Yaroslavl) there would be nothing to see...

Are we picking raisins out of a bun? Did we build and continue to build just for the sake of admiration? Or are there more pressing reasons?
There should be fewer villas, palaces and temples, and more schools, universities, factories, plants, scientific institutes... Otherwise, all this luxury will be of about the same use as the "Tsar Cannon", if not less.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Illanatol

......... Otherwise, the benefit from all this luxury is the same as from the "Tsar Cannon", if not less.

Yes, like a hopelessly damaged weapon, on which a hopelessly ill man is depicted - Tsar Feodor I Ivanovich...

[Alexey RA]

And this is what G. Zinoviev said:

Revolution? Internationale? These are great events, but I'll burst into tears if they touch Paris.

A hundred years later, the "singer of revolutions and freedom" Bernard-Henri Levy will follow in Zinoviev's footsteps.
While popular unrest and color revolutions were taking place far from his native France (Kosovo, Libya, Syria, Ukraine), he supported them in every possible way and provided a theoretical basis for them.
But as soon as the "yellow vests" appeared in France, he immediately called them "fascists of the left and right," and the vests themselves "brown shirts" of the SA. He then called on the French to rally around the legitimate and worthy President Macron.

[Illanatol]

Revolutions come and go, but we always want to eat. And we want to eat well and to our fill.

[Illanatol]

Quote: Eduard Vaschenko

Modern researchers (non-judgmental opinion) consider three civil wars in the history of Russia:

Oh, come on. The entire 11th-13th centuries were nothing but "Time of Troubles" and the Great Patriotic War, basically. Russians slaughtered each other for all they were worth. Or when a Russian prince storms Kyiv or Ryazan and devastates them so much that they never really recovered—isn't that a Time of Troubles?
Or, earlier, another prince (nicknamed "the accursed") brought the Poles to the same Kyiv, and ordered his brothers, Boris and Gleb, to be slaughtered like sheep - is this not unrest?

Well, something similar happened in Europe too... like how Catholic and Protestant Germans bled each other during the Thirty Years' War? Almost every significant nation experienced turbulent (or troubled) times.

[Olgovich]

Author:

Sytin left without land and without a division. Easy. subsequently reconciled himself with the Bolshevik theory of communist land use.


P. P. Sytin, a researcher at the Central State Archives of the Red Army, in a photograph taken around 1938, is the son of a soldier in the Uhlan regiment, a major general in the imperial army, awarded the St. George's weapon, and a holder of seven tsarist orders.

after the execution of this spy by the communists in 1938 finally.

Share.

[Jager]

Curiously, judging by the comments, the Civil War is far from over. Just like a hundred years ago, there are those who, faced with the choice between Reds or Whites, would later calmly kill and shoot each other.
One thing is surprising. The overwhelming majority of those same "crust bakers" in 1917 would have been destined to become impoverished, ignorant, and hungry peasants. For some reason, few of them think about this.
But the fact is that the USSR ultimately became the most powerful state in the world. Even if it was ultimately eroded by that same "contra" with the party nomenklatura.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Jager

.......

....... One thing is surprising. The overwhelming majority of those same "crust bakers" in 1917 would have been destined to become impoverished, ignorant, and hungry peasants. For some reason, few of them think about this.
But the fact is that the USSR ultimately became the most powerful state in the world. Even if it was ultimately eroded by that same "contra" with the party nomenklatura.

I wrote something similar just above. Ladies and young ladies Those thinking about balls would go to baths, rooms, or tractors and even to a low-social housing

[Olgovich]

Quote: Jager

One thing is surprising: the overwhelming majority of those same "crust bakers" in 1917 would have been destined to become impoverished, ignorant, and hungry peasants.

What is surprising is that the overwhelming majority of bone-crunchers do not remember the tragic fate of the poor, disenfranchised, hungry, tortured Russians, dying and exiled in their millions, peasants of the 1920s, 30s, 40s, and 50s, prepared for them by the "people's" government.

Quote: Jager

But it’s a fact - the USSR eventually became the most powerful

and the only one of its kind in the world: nowhere else in the world were hundreds of thousands shot in a year, millions of children and their parents exiled, and almost the entire top leadership of the country, party, army, etc. turned out to be... traitors, spies.
If you know anything similar, please tell me, because no one knows anything like this...

[odisey3000]

Dear sir, I'll tell you in case you don't know. Many countries slaughtered and shot their own people with relish. I'll even list them, dear sir. Let's start in order. Germany, under Hitler and the late Weimar Republic - the Bavarian Republic, shot at each other like crazy... Austria in the 1930s. Poland under Pilsudski with his concentration camps... What England did in Ireland in 1929-1930. How many of its own people were killed in Spain under Mr. Franco, the same thing happened in Portugal under Salazar. . For the record, let's remember the Finns, how many of their own people they slaughtered, even now they are ashamed to remember it - their own people, I repeat... Let's remember the great Chiang Kai-shek in China, how many thousands of communists he slaughtered in the 30s. Now let's move on to Asia and Latin America, where anti-communist programs of extermination of their own people were actively carried out from 1945 to 2000. In the USSR, no one was killed en masse. And so, let's begin. Indonesia - 1 million killed from 1965 to 1966, South Korea - from 100000 to 200000 thousand killed from 1948-1950, Vietnam Operation Phoenix 1968-1972 50000 thousand killed, Taiwan 1947 - 10000 killed. Sri Lanka 1987-1990 - from 40000 to 60000 killed. Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, CIA operation - Condor, from 1970 to 1980 from 60000 to 80000 thousand people killed, Guatemala 1954-1966, 200000 thousand killed, El Salvador from 1979-1992 75000 killed, East Timor 1975-1999 from 300000 thousand people. You can also add Hungary in 1956, they also shot a lot of their own people. And I also forgot Greece, where in 1945-1946 local monarchists, together with the British, also shot a lot of Greek people. Like They are communists. It was such a nervous time. On this topic, you can read Vincent Bevis's book, The Jocart Method: Anti-Communist Terror in the United States. Learn history.

[Olgovich]

Quote from: odisey3000

In many countries, their own people were slaughtered and shot with relish.

in...good ones?!

Quote from: odisey3000

Let's start from the beginning. Germany, under Hitler and the late Weimar Republic - the Bavarian Republic, shot at each other like crazy...

Give me these FUNNY numbers.

In Germany, 360 people were executed in 37-38, in the USSR 682 000- in three thousand times more.

Quote from: odisey3000

Indonesia - 1 million killed from 1965 to 1966

half a million - and it was the damned anti-comics who did it, and you are the commies

Quote from: odisey3000

It was such a nervous time.

So you need to treat paranoia, not kill innocent people.

[hohol95]

"Broad sections of the population feared not only the return of the old order. They were even more afraid of punishment for their actions during the Revolution and the Civil War.

For example, for the redistribution of land, for the destruction and plunder of estates, large farms, and so on.

Of course, Denikin's indecisive stance did nothing to broaden the Whites' social base. People wanted clarity on vital issues before defeating the Bolsheviks.

And while the Soviet government made generous promises, many of which it fulfilled, the leaders of the White movement could not boast of this...”
 (c) R. G. Gagkuev. The White Case of General Denikin. / Historian. No. 97 January 2023.

https://dzen.ru/a/aMvniKSoVzvBspp2

[hohol95]

“In addition to clashes with peasants over the return of plundered property of the estates, sources show instances of landowners violating the ‘Rules for the collection of...’.”

"The order of the commandant of the city of Volchansk (an officer of the same division) prevented the returning landowner from fulfilling his demand of the peasants—giving him not the required third, but the entire harvest gathered from his lands..." (c) Agriculture in the White South of Russia. Implementation of Legislative Acts of the White Guard Governments. Cooperatives, Zemstvo Self-Government in the White South of Russia in 1919–1920.

https://dzen.ru/a/aMvniKSoVzvBspp2

[ism_ek]

This is my grandfather in the photo. He didn't formally participate in the Civil War. He was mobilized in 1922. The photo was taken in 1924 in Central Asia.
My grandmother's brothers volunteered to fight in the Civil War, some for the Whites, some for the Reds. They left with their horses. I don't think anyone in a remote Ural village was interested in politics; the goal was more likely to escape the deep poverty of the village. One brother achieved success, becoming an officer in the Red Army (he was executed in 1937), while the others returned empty-handed and later died in WWII.
My great-grandfather on another side of the family was a clerk for a first-guild merchant. He was a non-commissioned officer in the Penza Marine Corps. He returned home to Penza and participated in its defense against the White Czechs. Then he went into business. After the end of the New Economic Policy (NEP), he was, as they used to say, in economic work. He died of tuberculosis in 1939.

[Reptiloid]

Interesting and worthy destinies. Your ancestors. From Penza. Do you live there now? Other colleagues on the site used to be from Penza, besides Shpakovsky VO.

[cpls22]

An interesting article, thank you. However, the description of the first Constituent Assembly left an unpleasant impression. I admit that it was precisely that—useless and helpless—but the arguments for this opinion struck me as unfounded, appealing to emotions, and lacking documentary evidence. The lack of unity and organization among the members of the Constituent Assembly in that situation was inevitable. Their military vulnerability wasn't their fault, and, according to the author, Kornilov left St. Petersburg before it was dispersed. The episode is somewhat vaguely described. Clearly, the country was then experiencing a huge conflict of interests between various social strata, and efforts to resolve this conflict peacefully were doomed to failure without the support of force. The use of force, however, was promoted and, by its very nature, oriented toward fighting for one side or the other, rather than maintaining a balance.
Efforts to preserve it and find a compromise were treated with disdain; today they would be called "relativists", but this term was just beginning its journey in physics.
It was necessary for millions of irreconcilables to kill each other, leaving the field to the survivors who knew the value of peace.
my grandfather
https://ria1914.info/index.php?title=%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%94%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
managed to take part in the events later called the "iron stream" in Serafimovich's book.

[Andre-2128]

Whites differ from reds in a number of characteristics.
1) The leaders of the White movement were participants in the First World War, military leaders (Kornilov, Denikin, Alekseev, Yudenich, Kolchak, Ataman Krasnov, Mamantov, S.L. Markov) or heroes who distinguished themselves during the war, who began it as junior and mid-level officers (G.M. Semenov, Drozdovsky, Kappel, A.N. Pepeliaev, Baron Wrangel). The leaders of the Reds belong to several categories. Some of them were in exile for various reasons (Stalin, Sverdlov, Kamenev, Rykov, Tomsky) or in prison (Dzerzhinsky). Others were abroad (Bukharin, Zinoviev, Lenin, Trotsky, Uritsky). Some served in the rear on assignment for the RSDLP (M.V. Frunze). Some war veterans joined the RSDLP during the revolution (Blyukher, Tukhachevsky, Budyonny, Chapayev). Reds who participated in World War I were classified as soldiers or officers of junior and mid-level ranks.
The Bolsheviks categorically refused to participate in the Great War. The Basel Congress of Socialists, convened at the initiative of Karl Kautsky, called on socialists to oppose the war. Grigory Zinoviev, a comrade of Lenin, later said that the Basel Manifesto rejected the very concept of "defense of the Fatherland," instead calling for civil war should military conflict break out. In 1915, in his article "On the Defeat of One's Government in an Imperialist War," Lenin explicitly spoke of the need to transform the war of governments into a civil war. With the outbreak of the Great War, some socialists (the Mensheviks and some Socialist Revolutionaries) espoused the defense of the Fatherland, but Lenin and the Bolsheviks did not change their minds. They were prepared for civil war. The Russian military class (from which the Whites emerged) had never even considered it. Civil war had never even entered their wildest dreams.
2) Those from the military class were most acutely affected by the chaos that reigned in Russia after the coup d'état of February 1917. One of the leaders of the future White movement, Mikhail Alekseyev, was involved in the conspiracy against the Tsar. The vast majority were caught unawares. General Brusilov, a participant in the civil war on the Red side, was among the conspirators, like M. Alekseyev. The conspirators belonged to the so-called Military Masonic Lodge, an offshoot of the Grand Orient. The Grand Orient of France was involved in organizing the so-called French Revolution. Ordinary Masons, as a rule, are unaware of the true purpose of their actions. General Krymov, a member of the Military Lodge, shot himself after the outbreak of the revolution. General Alekseyev left the Masonic Lodge in 1918 and began organizing volunteer units, but it was too late. The true organizers of the Russian civil war were the puppeteers in London and Paris, who plotted the overthrow of the Tsar and the subsequent disintegration of Russia. The Bolsheviks and the Military Lodge were merely pawns in a multi-move geopolitical game.

[odisey3000]

The civil war began in the Russian Empire when a group of generals at the Supreme Command Headquarters in Mogilev staged a coup d'état to seize power and remove the House of Romanov from power. I won't list the figures involved. Everyone knows them, starting with Alekseev, Kornilov, and company. And then there are the State Duma figures Melyukov, Savinkov, and Shulgin. And of course, the main beneficiary of the civil war, Tsar Nicholas, a weak-willed and cowardly man. When the Kaiser was overthrown, he addressed the troops, absolving them of responsibility for violating the oath they had sworn to him as Emperor. Germany didn't have that. The Tsar quickly packed his bags and fled. And you can do whatever you want with that. And, of course, the intrigues of our Entente partners. So what did the Bolsheviks have to do with unleashing the civil war? They seized power and defended it as best they could.

[Andre-2128]

1. The Bolsheviks (communists) are the most consistent Marxists. Marxism is a radical Anabaptist movement revived by certain individuals (see the Münster Commune of 1534-1535).
2. Socialism in its original sense was a VOLUNTARY association based on the absence of private property (J. Meslier, Morelly, R. Owen).
3. Karl Marx, Lionel Nathan Rothschild's second cousin, decided to use the socialist movement to seize power for finance capital. Marxism is essentially a Trojan horse for the socialist movement. Outwardly, it proclaims a commitment to socialism and communism, but in reality, it serves the interests of the Rothschild and Rockefeller financial monopolies. The communist experiment in Russia was a touchstone and the initial stage for finance capital's conquest of global power. The next stage in the establishment of global power has now begun (see the WEF program).
4. Marxist parties (and their core, the "left communists") were originally intended to serve as a battering ram to destroy the traditional order that hindered the establishment of global power. Thus, from the very beginning, Marxists served as the shock troops of finance capital, acting as proxies for the destruction of the monarchical socio-political system.
5. Lenin himself declared that socialism is state capitalism. The Bolsheviks' original program was to abolish private property and transfer all property to state control. Such a program was bound to provoke resistance in any healthy society, and it did, even during the communist experiment. The attempt to implement this program was the cause of the civil war.
6. Due to the emerging resistance of peasants and Cossacks who sided with the Whites during the civil war, the original Bolshevik Marxist program was replaced by the socialist Socialist Revolutionary program. Only by temporarily abandoning this program were the Bolsheviks able to win the civil war. The resistance of the White movement saved Russia's future. The reimplementation of the Marxist program in the 30s (collectivization) envisioned a less radical version and excluded the participation of the "left communists" (L. Trotsky, G. Zinoviev, and their supporters) in its implementation.

[odisey3000]

And who in those distant times could say exactly what and how should be built in the country? No one could. There were different views on building a socialist state, and even more so on matters of ideology. Tell me now, what kind of system is in modern Russia and what ideology currently dominates here? State patriotism or state capitalism?

[Andre-2128]

Events in Syria demonstrate how globalists seize control of radical movements. An insider infiltrates a radical movement (in this case, radical Islam), and an agent of influence (Jolani) entices the protest electorate. Such people are called takfiris in Iran, akin to left-wing communists.

[Reptiloid]

This is the equivalent of the left communists

Maybe it would be more correct to say ultra-left or leftists, as they say now?

[Idle_piston]

Judging by the comments, the civil war in the country continues. So what external enemy is Russia planning to denazify if the autumn of 1916 is looming within the country.

[Andre-2128]

Left-wing communists (or leftists, as you like) are a lost cause. Currently, global power is banking on "takfiris" (a radical Islamic movement controlled from outside and created under the auspices of the CIA, such as the "Islamic State" and similar organizations). Takfirism is an unorthodox movement within radical Islam. Its two main characteristics are: 1) Takfiris consider other Muslims who disagree with them to be "infidels"; 2) the Takfiri movement is controlled from outside by global structures through agents of influence. A similar phenomenon existed in the late 19th and early 20th centuries: left-wing communists were connected to finance capital. Both Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky were close relatives of financial magnates. Wall Street financed the RSDLP(b) through these "leftists." Rumors of Lenin's connection with the German General Staff were fanned by the Anglo-Americans to obscure the true funding channels. It was a cover operation.