Military Review

An-70 got the best engine in the world

58

In mid-April in Moscow, an act was submitted on the completion of state bench tests of the D-27 engine, created by the GP Ivchenko-Progress, FSUE NPTsaly Salyut, and Motor Sich JSC for the An-70 military transport aircraft, which will be supplied by the Russian Air Force . The Chairman of the State Commission of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant Colonel Vladislav Bruskov, who carried out the military-technical support of the tests, noted that the propulsion system is ready to conduct state flight tests as part of the An-70.


Russian military experts during a multi-month thorough check found that the basic technical data and operating characteristics of the product of Zaporozhye engine builders correspond to the technical requirements of the Russian Air Force. Thus, another multi-year problem was solved in the Russian-Ukrainian project of a promising air transport. About the engine and its creators, YV Catherine PUTYLOVA and Oleksandr BABAKIN, freelance correspondents of the NVO, were told by Igor Kravchenko, the designer of the Zaporozhye design enterprise.

- According to international, including Russian experts, An-70 in its class has no analogues in the world. This is the most innovative Russian-Ukrainian product. It turns out, and the engine must be the best?

- We, engineers and designers of "Progress", are engaged in concrete actions. Therefore, I will say objectively about the An-70 project not only my opinion. The entire power plant of the new aircraft and our D-27 passed the bench state tests, the corresponding act was signed. The identified and approved technical parameters show that we have now created the most optimal engine in the world for a new military transport aircraft. It is thanks to this engine the aircraft has the best economy in the world, has the shortest take-off and landing distance and for decades ahead of similar foreign developments.

This promising Russian-Ukrainian aircraft, it seems, must now be fully promoted to the market. The need for it is huge. The state defense order of the Russian side for it already makes up 60 machines. Serial production is scheduled to begin in 2014 year at KAPO named after Gorbunov in Kazan. And it will be conducted in cooperation with the Ukrainian aviation industry. The serial production scheme has already been agreed and the Ukrainian side has begun the transfer of the necessary documentation for it.

I would especially note that, despite the support at the highest state level, the An-70 project was literally inhibited for many years due to financial, political, and often personal reasons. Although Russia is very profitable. So the share of Russian enterprises in the cost of the power plant is more than 70%. 135 Russian enterprises of the engine-building industry are involved in its production. And there are only six Ukrainian enterprises. Only for some reason, some people oppose the Il-476, which is definitely a good airplane, but in different classes with the An-70, as opposed to the new Antonov machine. Its first modification took off 40 years ago, and the fuel consumption of 1,7 is more than An-70 and it does not have such unique take-off and landing characteristics and such a number of advanced modern technologies. For example, such a power plant, similar to ours, foreign aircraft manufacturers expect to create only by 2020 year. And this is true. And we already have it on the wing.

I note that foreign companies of this class can create and mass-produce only 8 – 10 years. Therefore, we still have time to conquer a huge segment of the global aviation market. However, the project was inhibited. But five years ago, the An-70 could already be mass-produced and operated. Engines for it can be manufactured jointly in cooperation with the state enterprise Ivchenko-Progress, FSUE NPTsG Salyut, Motor Sich JSC and other enterprises. An-70 can be successfully used not only as a military transport aircraft, but also as a very efficient vehicle in the civilian freight transport sector. That is why this Russian-Ukrainian aircraft project must be fully developed and supported in two states. If we miss precious years, then competitors will bypass us with their new aircraft and engine products, and it will take us years and huge funds to create new, even more advanced products. If by that time, for quite understandable reasons, we still retain our scientific, design and production potentials, and indeed in general, the aviation industries themselves in two fraternal states.

Currently, An-70 is appreciated by the Russian and Ukrainian Air Forces, the military departments of the states. Such a plane is needed by the military. They have repeatedly stated and said that the new aircraft and its engine are the best in its class, and this is confirmed by many foreign experts.
- It is known that with limited means and capabilities, a new engine was created. Is everything conceived realized in metal, did Russian enterprises take part in complex and labor-intensive research and development work?

- As you know, D-27 had a lot of complaints from certain forces, which for various reasons simply didn’t benefit from the appearance of such a promising product in Russia and Ukraine. And then it is not so, and the alleged technical characteristics are far from customer requirements. However, the motor successfully passed the state bench tests. An independent commission of customers carefully monitored. And the act was signed, which draws a line under all disputes and conversations about this engine. This is an accomplished fact that it corresponds to this stage of the tactical and technical tasks.

Of course, in design work it is not always possible to embody what was intended in a real product. Therefore, we will further develop this engine to increase its reliability, resource, and economy. I will say that it was originally laid the opportunity for improvement, modernization. Already today we see how to increase its economy on the 3 – 5%, which will make the new aircraft more economical. In due time, for this engine, the An-70 project, a lot was done by well-known leaders in Russia and Ukraine: Yuri Yeliseyev, Director General of Salyut Moscow (before 2010), Vladimir Skibin, Director General of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (1994 –2000 years) Colonel-General Anatoly Sitnov, President of Motor Sich JSC Vyacheslav Boguslaev. These and other recognized experts have put their hearts into this project. So at the present time, the D-27 with its tactical and technical characteristics is the best engine in its class in the world. He objectively showed this during difficult state tests.

- And what exactly is new and progressive introduced in this engine, what makes it the best?

“It has eight compression levels 30, which has no analogues in the world, a highly accelerated combustion chamber gives indicators of harmful emissions significantly lower than normalized ones, and a unique gear-size reducer for driving a coaxial multi-blade propeller is designed and manufactured. The engine used Russian control system of the last generation and hydraulic units. As a result, such a painstaking and time-consuming design work of the D-27 is 10% more economical than the best models in the world engine building. Western designers will be able to create such a motor no sooner than in five to eight years. Our engine-building technology, joint with Russian partners, is ahead of foreign technology, I’m not mistaken, noting by seven or eight years. With such products, we must already jointly enter the world market. With this you can not hesitate. Otherwise we will lag behind competitors.

I note that few industries in Russia and Ukraine have such a huge advantage in technology and products created, like our D-27, which allows An-70 to be 10 – 30% more economical than any transport aircraft in the world. Engineers from this year will begin to master the mass production of the created motor. In 2014, we plan to release the first batch of engines. Only for this purpose a guaranteed order is needed for the first military transport aircraft in the world with a promising and economical rotor-driven engine, which was created by the joint efforts of two states and national aviation industries.

- Are the new modifications of the D-27 with improved features?

- What about? We are already discussing with CIAM specialists the creation of an even more promising modification of the motor. The main thing now is to wisely realize the existing scientific, technical and production potential, not to oversleep and it is useless not to waste it in empty conversations and disputes. Otherwise, we’ll buy foreign planes and engines for low-cost, popular money, and at the same time we will complain that although we were the first to develop such advanced aviation equipment, we unfortunately did not use the opening opportunities to sell them on world markets. We have plenty of such examples.

Regarding the An-70 project, I would note that there were progressively thinking forces and leaders, and above all in the RF Ministry of Defense, who, despite the years of artificially created barriers, could understand D-27 and give him a way in the promising An-70 project, for developing who frankly say such facts. In terms of flight performance, the Russian-Ukrainian An-70 surpasses similar foreign transporters, including the new European A-400M. Our car has lower cost and operating costs. The maximum carrying capacity of the Antonov machine 47 tons, European 37, and the volume of the cargo compartment we have more on 85 cubic meters. And such an engine like ours is not yet available abroad. This is how Russian and Ukrainian aviation and engine manufacturers worked together in the conditions of artificially created barriers for the benefit of their peoples and states. After all, An-70 and D-27 are tens of thousands of high-tech jobs in our national aviation industries.
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  1. CCA
    CCA April 23 2013 05: 56 New
    31
    Despite all the insinuations and ritual dances around, it’s all gone, the project is still moving and God forbid it has less obstacles and a level road ... And taking into account the fact that in this project more than 70% of Russian enterprises that show real results - money needs to be redirected here, and not to Nanoskolkovo scams ...
    1. Kolya
      Kolya April 23 2013 06: 41 New
      14
      Zaporozhye should be part of Russia. Otherwise, Kiev pro-Westerners in power will block the oxygen of Motor Sich and nullify all the successes of the factory workers.
      1. Alexander
        Alexander April 23 2013 07: 14 New
        +3
        Well, they can! And they said squandered everything, squandered.
        1. aksakal
          aksakal April 23 2013 07: 26 New
          +5
          Quote: Alexander
          Well, they can! And they said squandered everything, squandered

          - This was said by the alarmists, who were given the apt nickname "baked all the polymers!".
          There are few of them on this resource, but they are. According to Antonov - unlike Tupolev, Antonov showed an enviable vitality in the 90s, terrible for Soviet aircraft design companies, like a cat with 9 lives.
          And we see the result. BUT! Whatever survivability Antonov has, it is limited, and if Ukraine continues to tear to the West and oppose an alliance with Russia, the West does not need Antonov even in its dead form - only in its vaporized state! This must be borne in mind.
      2. slvevg
        slvevg April 23 2013 11: 08 New
        +4
        Last week, Azarov / Prime Min. Ukraine / stated that despite Russia's unwillingness to order the AN-70, Ukraine will independently launch a series, considers this project a priority and allocates money. I do not think that at this stage, Ukrainian officials will bury the plane. After all, China is certainly interested. And there is something to ponder. what
    2. klimpopov
      klimpopov April 23 2013 09: 07 New
      +1
      for the An-70 military transport aircraft, which will be supplied by the Russian Air Force.

      ??? Knowledgeable people explain. It seems like they stabbed him. Or again something is unsaid. Or is it the wishes of the author ...?
      1. plotnikov561956
        plotnikov561956 April 23 2013 13: 48 New
        0
        BTA Russia will be delivered IL-476 ... European pretzel of Ukraine specifically indicate the fate of this project ..
    3. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich April 23 2013 09: 54 New
      +1
      so it’s like that ... but it’s painfully annoying it “has no analogues” ... “the best”. and so on ... this is our whole life like that ... only in life it turns out that it’s not so ...
  2. Gemar
    Gemar April 23 2013 06: 01 New
    12
    Finally! Not mutual insults and accusations from partners are heard, but serious motivation to start production. The main thing is that there is no pressure from Europeans and Americans, then, perhaps, the An-70 series will be a couple of hundred aircraft. And this, in addition to workers engaged in production, is a serious help to those who will service this aircraft. On the service, too, not a lot of money is earned!
    And yet ... IN NO EVENT SHOULD SELL AN-70 CHINA! The comrades are probably rubbing their hands, dreaming of the day when they will offer the World "national" development at prices below competitors.
    In terms of its flight performance, the Russian-Ukrainian An-70 is superior to similar foreign transporters, including the new European A-400M. Our machine has lower cost and operating costs. The maximum carrying capacity of the Antonov machine is 47 tons, the European one is 37, and the volume of the cargo compartment is 85 cubic meters more. And there is no such engine as ours yet. This is how the Russian and Ukrainian aircraft and engine builders worked together in the conditions of artificially created obstacles for the benefit of their peoples and states.

    I ask you, only for the benefit of OUR (albeit disconnected) people and ... our states! And not for the benefit of the yellow Xerox!
    1. Forget
      Forget April 23 2013 08: 14 New
      11
      Quote: Gamar
      ... IN NO EVENT SHOULD SELL AN-70 CHINA!

      correctly
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 23 2013 18: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Gamar
      IN NO EVENT SHOULD SELL AN-70 CHINA

      And for this you need to buy, but it is better to produce them yourself ...
  3. Denis
    Denis April 23 2013 06: 43 New
    +3
    And we already have it on the wing
    The trouble is that it should fly and work!
    The program to create a new operational tactical aircraft (MTC) began at the turn of 1970-1980. In 1993, a Russian-Ukrainian agreement was signed, according to which the An-70 should be built in Kiev and Samara
    Aviadolgostroy, it's time for him to fly
    1. Kaa
      Kaa April 23 2013 08: 49 New
      +5
      Quote: Denis
      Aviadolgostroy, it's time for him to fly
      Politics, sir! "There was a time when aircraft construction acted as a powerful unifying factor for Ukraine and Russia, but by the spring of 2013. the next round of tension in relations between the two states has matured, and the aircraft building industry has once again become hostage to the general political discord. Almost all joint plans in the field of aircraft construction, from the An-140 to the megaproject to resume production of the modernized An-124 Ruslan aircraft, were cracked at the seams. The pulling of Ukraine into the Customs Union is virtually frozen. Interest in the military-political bloc — the CSTO — has not been shown. It is no secret to anyone for a long time: only two design bureaus are viable and retained the entire chain of aircraft development and production: Antonov and Sukhoi. But Sukhoi Design Bureau can seriously deal only with military vehicles, whereas the traditional profile of Antonov Design Bureau is military transport and regional passenger aircraft. Therefore, pressure on the industry has a double benefit: both as a political slap in the face of the state, and as a bridle for an uncompliant partner. At one time, the Russian Ministry of Defense ordered the aviation industry 10 An-140 aircraft in the military version. Moreover, unofficially, the military department announced an increase in this order to 62 aircraft. It also expressed its readiness to take control of the start of serial production of the upgraded heavy transport An-124 Ruslan (to start an expensive project). Another mutually beneficial issue was actually resolved with the leadership of the Russian military department - the acquisition of the second instance of the world's largest aircraft, the An-225 Mriya. This corresponded to the aircraft building ambitions of the Russian Federation and was beneficial for Ukraine to advance for the money An-70 and his "little brother" - the new An-178 military transport aircraft with a carrying capacity of 15-18 tons, with excellent prospects, experts say. But politics got involved ... According to M. Zurabov, at the beginning the RF Ministry of Defense proposed to purchase 70 units. An-70, then - 60 aircraft, the penultimate time - 16. Now it's zero. Because Russia began to produce its Il-476 military transport aircraft. Back in the city 2003 The An-70 set six world records for carrying capacity, among other things, by lifting 55 tons of cargo to a height of 7355 m during testing. In terms of fuel efficiency, the An-70 surpasses even the A400M. An-70 is capable of transporting 98% of the available main types of weapons (according to a special list worked out several years ago by the military of the Russian Federation and developers), and IL-476 - only 70%. If we talk about the nomenclature of weapons, the An-70 takes on board 19 units of equipment, and the IL-476 - only 9. The fact is that the section of the cargo compartment of the IL-476 is significantly smaller than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An-70, S-17, A-400M and even the Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of the GP "Antonov"). In addition, the An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: to disperse it requires 607 m along the unpaved strip and 310 m along the equipped one. All world developers consider this characteristic important, and therefore the S-17, A-400M and Y-20 have the ability to take off from 900-meter strips, including unpaved ones. But the IL-476 necessary take-off length is 2100 m. But, as for orders for the An-70, then at its cost almost three times less than the A400M, there is no doubt about them. At Antonov State Enterprise, at least three states are called for acquisition. An-70. But that's not the point. And the fact that in its intentions to "punish" Ukraine by abandoning its aircraft, the Russian Federation will simply find itself with a military transport machine, inferior to all world analogues, including the Chinese one. http://gazeta.zn.ua/internal/samoletostroenie-kak-razmennaya-moneta-_.html
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov April 23 2013 09: 08 New
        +2
        Wise KAA, as always, put everything on the shelves.
        Welcome hi
      2. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 23 2013 09: 15 New
        +7
        Quote: Kaa
        Pulling Ukraine into the Customs Union

        Retraction?
        For example, I will never believe any Ukrainian author who, even in advertising targeted at Russian readers, cannot get rid of anti-Russian rhetoric.

        Who is this author Valentin Badrak from Cherkassy in 1989 who graduated from the Ryazan Airborne School: "At the same time, Mr. Badrak, says that" the North Atlantic Alliance wants Ukraine to have its own specialization. "" But this is good. First, We are already ready to specialize in military transport aviation, and Ukraine could earn serious money within the framework of NATO by transferring troops and weapons, "he said." Today's An-124 fleet, which is used for these purposes, is not enough. Volga Dnepr aircraft, which is disadvantageous to both NATO and Ukraine. ”censor.net.ua/news/43278/ekspert_quotrossii_nevygodno_poluchit_nebolshoe_koliche
        stvo_denejnyh_resursov_a_vzamen_usilit_boevuyu
  4. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov April 23 2013 06: 52 New
    +3
    The engine is very interesting.
    It would be necessary to prepare a line of passenger aircraft with these engines.
    As long as there is a technological breakthrough, it is possible to deliver to the domestic market also abroad.
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 April 23 2013 08: 05 New
      +3
      For passenger aircraft, the D-436 was created in the same cooperation. Only he fell into one niche with Sam-146 (SSJ-100) and his fate is foggy. D-436 is dispensed on a single basis, for the BE-200.
      And the D-27 will become serial in 5 years, at best, it is quite technologically sophisticated. So the optimism of the author is somewhat exaggerated. sad
    2. Metlik
      Metlik April 23 2013 10: 25 New
      0
      For passenger aircraft, this engine is too noisy. But for transporters, it fits perfectly.
  5. V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov April 23 2013 06: 56 New
    +1
    Well - now, it's time - Ukraine to become a member of the Customs Union ... If there is such a backlog - God himself ordered ...
    1. Splin
      Splin April 23 2013 07: 18 New
      +7

      Here is such a strange "movie"
      1. Denis
        Denis April 23 2013 07: 29 New
        +2
        Quote: Splin
        Here is such a strange "movie"
        Everything is logical, each sandpiper praises its swamp
      2. UFO
        UFO April 23 2013 08: 04 New
        +4
        "Nothing personal just business". It must be understood that the An-70 is not given not only and not so much by the "political vagaries" of Russia, but by the air lobby of our "friends" from the West. The situation is similar to the passenger aircraft industry - everyone was flooded with Boeings and Airbuses, but where are the legendary Carcasses and Ila? Those developments that exist now cannot break through, and the BTA is waiting for it if there is not enough political will to defend this still promising project. Let's miss the time - they will close us with the "BTA project" as such. hi
        1. Akim
          Akim April 23 2013 08: 35 New
          +5
          Quote: UFO
          not so much the "political whims" of Russia as the air lobby of our "friends" from the West

          Not the lobby, but the greed of our nouveau riche. An-158 costs 30 million bucks. For this, and even less money, you can buy a used Boeing 737-300, which can accommodate 1,5 times more people and, accordingly, will “beat off” the money faster.
          1. anton107798
            anton107798 April 23 2013 18: 47 New
            +1
            Quote: Akim
            Not the lobby, but the greed of our nouveau riche. An-158 costs 30 million bucks. For this, and even less money, you can buy a used Boeing 737-300, which can accommodate 1,5 times more people and, accordingly, will “beat off” the money faster.


            Have you ever been to aircraft manufacturing? yes expensive, but the equipment is not cheap and must be repulsed, this time, secondly, when buying a used Boeing you do not buy a guarantee, service or service specialists ... so think
            1. Akim
              Akim April 23 2013 19: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: anton107798
              Have you ever been to aircraft manufacturing?

              Yes there have been. The truth is not in construction, but in the repair of fighters. I agree about the service. But the plane is regional. Could the houses themselves have developed infrastructure. Cuba can.
          2. UFO
            UFO April 23 2013 19: 22 New
            0
            You underestimate western aircraft manufacturers. There are programs to capture the aviation markets and suppress (destroy) competitors analytic. centers are being worked out, and what means are then used for this, everything is in progress. bully
      3. andrejwz
        andrejwz April 23 2013 08: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: Splin
        Here is such a strange "movie"

        What is so strange? This "movie" can be watched in different ways. Either Russia is a “dog in the manger,” or Ukraine wants to have a dog together with hay. Ambition.
        So the share of Russian enterprises in the cost of the power plant is more than 70%. 135 Russian enterprises of the engine-building industry participate in its production. And there are only six Ukrainian enterprises

        It is necessary to work, and not to show off before each other.
      4. Wedmak
        Wedmak April 23 2013 10: 43 New
        +4
        Really weird movie. 19 types, 9 types ... Where did you see that military equipment on planes was transported in a combat position? At the same Shilka, the radar drops ...
        And then, the comparison of these aircraft is not entirely correct, AN turboprop, IL jet - naturally they have different run / take-off lengths ... And something I did not see with AN that it was possible to drop equipment. Can do this?
        1. Akim
          Akim April 23 2013 10: 57 New
          +4
          Quote: Wedmak
          Where did you see that military equipment on planes was transported in a combat position? At the same Shilka, the radar drops ...

          You do not confuse the stowed position and bringing into transport condition for transportation. T-72 for example should be dismantled anti-aircraft machine gun and DZ when transporting it to IL-76. And then he barely comes in. Apparently such parameters were meant by the concept of "combat." Journalists are not pros in this matter.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak April 23 2013 11: 08 New
            +2
            Apparently such parameters were meant by the concept of "combat." Journalists are not pros in this matter.

            So I am about the same. Everything is far-fetched ... I don’t argue, the An-70 is a wonderful aircraft, unique engines, but why distort facts so much?
            1. Akim
              Akim April 23 2013 11: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              but why so distort the facts?

              Quite possible. But the “Tunguska” really doesn’t fit in the IL-76 even in the stowed position.
            2. evil hamster
              evil hamster April 23 2013 11: 53 New
              +6
              Because if you do not understand in detail then pulling the owl on the globe will fail, and it will become clear that no matter how good a turbo-propeller with a take-off weight of 135 tons is, it cannot fit into the poverty of a turbofan with a take-off weight of 210 tons. The political moment requires a miracle, but miracles do not happen, that's why they explain to the people which An 70 is wonderful, but you see the bad Chilaveks in Russia pushing the "outdated" IL-76-PS90
              P.S. personally to An 70 I don’t feel any negative emotions, just a hyperactive peer the company starts to bother
          2. evil hamster
            evil hamster April 23 2013 11: 41 New
            +1
            On-board screens, he must dismantle and not DZ.
      5. evil hamster
        evil hamster April 23 2013 10: 46 New
        +2
        Yes, ordinary cinema, advertising is advertising. You just need to understand that this is precisely advertising. Since all the "data" is far-fetched.
  6. Forget
    Forget April 23 2013 08: 13 New
    +2
    Our engine-building technology, jointly with Russian partners, is ahead of the foreign one; I’m not mistaken, noting for seven to eight years
    well, we can still if we want
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 April 23 2013 08: 23 New
      +2
      D-27 began to be developed in the late 80s, if it were not for the collapse of the Union, it would be ready in the year 93-95. So consider the lead! smile
  7. AndreyAB
    AndreyAB April 23 2013 08: 56 New
    -1
    God forbid that everything would turn out as you want, hold on a stool for a couple of years, then everything would already work for the cordon of the "Democrats" or the Chinese, right now the main thing is not to ... about what at least was possible.
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 23 2013 15: 11 New
      0
      Nothing happens in terms of this aircraft. Ukraine is clearly defined - Europe, not Russia. If Russia in this situation will sponsor the Ukrainian aviation industry - this will be another proof of a stupid foreign policy.
  8. kind
    kind April 23 2013 09: 01 New
    0
    Well done! If only all sorts of Christian-Manturovs there would prevent production, they would not see beyond their nose and would not think about the future.
  9. Aeneas
    Aeneas April 23 2013 09: 31 New
    +8
    Quote: Kaa
    In terms of fuel efficiency, the An-70 surpasses even the A400M. An-70 is capable of transporting 98% of the available main types of weapons (according to a special list worked out several years ago by the military of the Russian Federation and developers), and the IL-476 - only 70%. If we talk about the nomenclature of weapons, the An-70 takes on board 19 units of equipment, and the IL-476 - only 9. The fact is that the cross-section of the cargo compartment of the IL-476 is significantly less than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An -70, S-17, A-400M and even the Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of the Antonov State Enterprise). In addition, the An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: to disperse it requires 607 m along the unpaved strip and 310 m along the equipped one. All world developers consider this characteristic important, and therefore the S-17, A-400M and Y-20 have the ability to take off from 900-meter strips, including unpaved ones. But the IL-476 necessary take-off length is 2100 m. But, as for orders for the An-70, then at its cost, almost three times less than the A400M, there is no doubt about them.

    The persistent stereotype that the Antonovites "leaked" the blueprints and technologies for the An-70 damned NATO, is being seriously questioned. The A400, with all the external similarities, has a carrying capacity worse by almost a quarter, not to mention the possibility of take-off and landing from the ground, fuel efficiency, etc. ... IMHO, Antonovites became hostages to their advanced competence in transport aircraft. Indeed, the An-70 almost climbed into the Il-76 niche, yielding significantly better performance. The issue has indeed become political. The Kremlin considers post-Soviet space to be a zone of its special interests, and has long offered America to "exchange" the ex-Union for Iran, Afghanistan, and Syria to the heap. The Kremlin loves Ukraine, and therefore it’s “beating” (beating means it loves!). The Kremlin doesn’t like France or Germany, and therefore doesn’t “beat” it, intensely developing military and economic cooperation. Sometimes it seems that the Kremlin is ready to act on the principle of "Don’t get to you (Ukraine) anyone!" Resettlement and all kinds of political demarches and economic pressure, and sometimes even hints of certain Russian politicians about military intervention (we take away Crimea and the South-East!). In such circumstances, Antonov and Motor Sich manage to work and lobby for cooperation with Russia (Boguslaev is campaigning for the CU)
    1. avt
      avt April 23 2013 10: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Aeneas
      The persistent stereotype that the Antonovites "leaked" the blueprints and technologies for the An-70 damned NATO, is being seriously questioned. The A400, with all the external similarities, has a load capacity of almost a quarter worse, not to mention the possibility of take-off and landing from the ground, fuel efficiency, etc.

      I completely agree ! Having abandoned the An-7X did crap.
      Quote: Aeneas
      The issue has indeed become political.

      And I will not argue with this, yes, the car got into exchange.
      Quote: Aeneas
      Sometimes it seems that the Kremlin is ready to act on the principle "Don’t get to anyone (Ukraine)!"

      Well, let's exaggerate the same is not necessary, the Chinese were offered a car, they refused. The same machinations of the Kremlin? But the car is a pity. And while the prospects for its production are not visible, alas request confirmation of this is the Shoigu meeting on the BTA and his trip to Kazan, as already mentioned. And for a long time it could replace the An-12.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 23 2013 11: 09 New
        0
        Quote: avt
        the Chinese were offered a car, they refused

        Give a reference. Where does the info come from? China really needs such an airplane (this does not mean that it needs to be done with the Chinese). I am for the mind. The plane should be done jointly by Ukraine and Russia. And in addition to your needs, you can sell finished products to neat countries.
        1. avt
          avt April 23 2013 16: 16 New
          0
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          Give a reference.

          Immediately after the closure of the An-7X program, it was exhibited at air shows in China, even before it crashed in Omsk. request , somewhere in my papers to look for a long time, but in nete I did not look. They then turned the AN-12.
  10. katran666
    katran666 April 23 2013 09: 51 New
    -1
    again, these Ukrainian chants ... the question is purely political - with whom are you? if with us - full cooperation with mandatory military-political compliance with the Russian Federation, no - pay for all your wishes and dreams yourself with your European partners
  11. krez-74
    krez-74 April 23 2013 10: 07 New
    +3
    Well done, all the creative work, in Russia, in Ukraine, is happening contrary!
  12. gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz April 23 2013 10: 12 New
    +2
    Well done !!! The aircraft is advanced, cooperative, very necessary and mutually beneficial. Together we are capable of much. The main thing is to establish mass production. Such a plane will firmly raise both the Ukrainian and Russian aviation industry and many related industries.
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 23 2013 15: 18 New
      -1
      yeah, pick it up. Ukraine goes to Europe, essentially not giving a damn about cooperation with Russia, and it will sponsor its aviation industry. brilliant foreign policy! negative
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 23 2013 18: 43 New
        +2
        Quote: domovoi
        yeah, pick it up. Ukraine goes to Europe, essentially not giving a damn about cooperation with Russia, and it will sponsor its aviation industry. brilliant foreign policy!

        Are you bored of whining?
  13. SPIRITofFREEDOM
    SPIRITofFREEDOM April 23 2013 10: 44 New
    -1
    Yanukovych in the bathhouse !!!!
  14. desiscia
    desiscia April 23 2013 10: 51 New
    +4
    An-70 must fly in hundreds
  15. Algor73
    Algor73 April 23 2013 11: 04 New
    +2
    This is a mutually beneficial project for both countries. There is interest in other countries. It is only necessary to do. I understand that carrot and stick are effective, but where is common sense? Well, we’ll ruin yet another design bureau, well, we will ruin yet another industry, and then what? And so after the 90s we can’t get up off our knees. If the defense industry is still getting better, then the civilian industry is getting worse. It’s time, it’s time to act already, because "the lower classes no longer want to live in the old way, and the upper classes cannot rule in the new ..."
    1. illarion
      illarion April 23 2013 13: 04 New
      +2
      Today they showed a report from Lviv about a Russian investor in LAZ. The local authorities want to deprivate the plant. Let there be no better plant that produces buses and trolleybuses than Russians to own. Is that true, comrades from Ukraine?
      1. domovoi
        domovoi April 23 2013 15: 21 New
        -1
        of course it's true. at least in f * ck, if only not with Russia. sponsoring the Ukrainian industry, including the aviation industry, is a gross blunder of Russia. however, she is not accustomed to make mistakes ...
        1. plotnikov561956
          plotnikov561956 April 23 2013 15: 50 New
          0
          No one is going to sponsor either the aviation industry .. or shipbuilding .. membership is denied as an observer of the Customs Union ...
  16. vladeinord
    vladeinord April 23 2013 11: 15 New
    0
    And the most important thing that pleases, FORWARD AND TOGETHER WITH BROTHER'S UKRAINE !!!
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 23 2013 15: 13 New
      -3
      Already, it seems, there is experience in doing business "on fraternal terms." once again on the same rake want to step on?
  17. silver_roman
    silver_roman April 23 2013 11: 32 New
    +3
    well done. Glory to the Soviet engineers and clear skies for the AN-70 and, in general, for friendship between our peoples!
  18. Navy7981
    Navy7981 April 23 2013 11: 44 New
    +1
    I am not a politician, therefore I am convinced that it is necessary to cooperate and the more the better. And I do not care about temporary workers in power.
  19. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm April 23 2013 12: 40 New
    0
    The An-70 has great prospects, the West is annoying, the KLA is also annoying, just a fairy tale about a bun.
    When the An-70 goes into production, I'll get drunk.
  20. wax
    wax April 23 2013 13: 02 New
    +4
    An-70 - in a series in the interests of our fraternal peoples! The customs union will not go anywhere. Hold on and fight, brethren, against yours and our shit. Well, God himself ordered us to strengthen the Slavic community.
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 23 2013 15: 23 New
      -1
      fundamentally wrong. Today, the day of most people in the warmth is much more important than any "Slavic community." therefore, the majority wants to go to Europe, because with homosexuals and other things, the main thing is money !!!
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 23 2013 18: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: domovoi
        fundamentally wrong. Today, the day of most people in the warmth is much more important than any "Slavic community." therefore, the majority wants to go to Europe, because with homosexuals and other things, the main thing is money !!!

        Do not judge everyone by yourself.
  21. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 April 23 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    Citizens, what a joint project .. as long as Ukraine is outside the Customs Union, what kind of conversation can there be. Remember Yanukovych’s last visit to Moscow. Flew out of the Kremlin, didn’t even drink a seagull .. Gas transits are reset to zero. Volumes go to Belarus. To the North and South. . helicopter engines from Zaporozhye to St. Petersburg. The Strategic Missile Forces are 100% of Russian completeness new .. BZHRK will be done without cooperation. This already has science ...
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 April 23 2013 14: 27 New
      0
      And the assembly in Kazan? Not yet?
  22. knn54
    knn54 April 23 2013 14: 17 New
    +1
    Valery: Well, God himself ordered us to strengthen the Slavic community.
    Let's start with the defense industry at least.
    Illarion: Local authorities want to deprivatize the plant.
    Galician trolls also wanted to bankrupt the Malyshev factory.
  23. Antision
    Antision April 23 2013 14: 36 New
    -2
    Quote: Kaa
    And the fact that in its intentions to “punish” Ukraine by abandoning its aircraft, the Russian Federation will simply find itself with a military transport machine that is inferior to all world analogues, including the Chinese

    Honestly, Mosva sang to Lebedin’s song “To my mother’s ears spite,” I’ll freeze the flag in your hands. And there will always be buyers for this Ukrainian plane ... China is only one of many
    1. domovoi
      domovoi April 23 2013 15: 26 New
      -1
      in principle, you are right. it was initially stupid to build something (in this case, design bureau) on the territory of Ukraine. Still in Poland or the Baltic states built :) in general, as always, in foreign policy, Russia has problems ...
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 April 23 2013 15: 27 New
      +1
      And there will always be buyers for this Ukrainian plane ... China is only one of many

      China will buy 1 car to scan and sell it, as its development. Do not get fooled by this. I think that common sense will prevail.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 23 2013 18: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: fzr1000
        China will buy 1 car to scan and sell it, as its development. Do not get fooled by this. I think that common sense will prevail.

        AN-70 for China - while fantasies about Russian participation in the project. But the SU-35 for China is more real and real. And not having received at least some kind of reaction for the SU-27, S-300, etc. that the Russian bureaucrats, that the Chinese side will sell the SU-35.
  24. Antision
    Antision April 23 2013 14: 39 New
    -3
    Quote: plotnikov561956
    .Gas transits are reset to zero. Volumes go to Belarus. To the North and to the South .. helicopter engines from Zaporozhye to Peter .. Strategic Missile Forces are 100% of Russian completeness new .. BZHRK will be done without cooperation this already has a science ...

    Well, the flag in your hands "samostoynikiki" smile and there will still be a buyer for Ukrainian products. Look, by the way, Mr. Putin, I would like to prefer Ahn to Airbase, without seeming too much about forks ...
  25. Antision
    Antision April 23 2013 14: 53 New
    -2
    Quote: illarion
    Today they showed a report from Lviv about a Russian investor in LAZ. The local authorities want to deprivate the plant. It would be better if there is no plant that produces buses and trolleybuses than Russians belong. This is true, comrades from Ukraine

    In general, nothing, the so-called investor is taken "churkiny" (surname already kakbe speaks for itself). Even the deaf black grouse knows how they did not invest in ChSZ — they bluntly cut the plant into metal. To the truth you are always welcome to crap the "Galicians" ... And what is the "Russian investor" like you can see at home in St. Petersburg, for example - on the example of the Kirov Plant, as the saying goes and with the song ... good luck in building such a future !!! Yes, there is still such an enterprise, Izhmash, there really is someone-planted ... But still, twenty years before that, it didn’t itch too much ...
  26. Antision
    Antision April 23 2013 15: 56 New
    0
    Quote: fzr1000
    China will buy 1 car to scan and sell it, as its development. Do not get fooled by this. I think that common sense will prevail.

    and not a fig that is copy but not all. Engine for example. they have problems with the production of such products. Although it is possible they will pull the assembly. But in any case, Motor Sich is in chocolode. Accessories are good, finished engines are just fine. And without any mournful howls about brotherhood and what you want in NATO. the question is why the Russian Federation does not refuse to procure Merci due to the fact that Germany is NATO and this is not patriotic ??? By the way, fortunately, Ukraine is not in NATO and it is not known when it will be there (and whether it will be anyway). But the Russians are still not silent. Do not like the plane ?? take your il-s. but all the competent specialists in the Moscow Region are shouting - we want this plane and the point (and they are right).
  27. Antision
    Antision April 23 2013 16: 45 New
    -2
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Retraction? For example, I will never believe any Ukrainian author who, even in advertising targeted at Russian readers, cannot get rid of anti-Russian rhetoric.

    schto sch times pіttverdzhuє ti moryorii ukrainofob
  28. shpuntik
    shpuntik April 23 2013 21: 08 New
    +1
    Everything is clear with the An-70: there is trade. Since the plane is already ready, it will go into production, in any case (no one has canceled profitability). But, why did Ukrainian designers help the Chinese to do the Y-20? Why did they grow a competitor, but to themselves?
    It looks like unscrupulousness: we are calling Europe, we are going there, we are helping China, but where are the fraternal feelings for Russia?
  29. uzer 13
    uzer 13 April 23 2013 23: 40 New
    0
    The project to create a joint aircraft failed and no new engine will help. The reason is very simple - you do not need to have any common business with Ukrainian partners.
  30. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 21 May 2013 19: 12 New
    0
    A good idea is the construction of a new promising aircraft by the joint efforts of Ukraine and Russia. Look at the friction between our countries with which things are going in the economy! That theft, then deception. No, time must pass for the economic relations between Ukraine and Russia to become civilized. In the meantime, you do not need to contact Ukraine, otherwise it will be more expensive for yourself ...
  31. NordUral
    NordUral 19 May 2018 17: 50 New
    0
    After decades, it became clear that the deployment of many industries and design bureaus in the Ukrainian SSR was a strategic mistake. And now Russia can only sigh about the past and think about how to create everything from us anew, practically from scratch, everything is gone on the outskirts.