Military Review

Karate right hand

In the mid-60s, all the armies of the world were looking for a way to neutralize the armored hordes in modern global warfare. Old anti-tank schemes did not work. A new combat system was required, which would have high mobile capabilities and high-precision effective weapons. And she was found. A combat attack helicopter appeared over the battlefield: “Tank killer”, as it was dubbed in the West. Punishing right hand for tanks.

Time went by. Today, a combat helicopter is much more than just a tank destroyer. It solves the tasks of fire support of ground forces on the battlefield, escorting columns and airborne troops, fighting landings and low-speed air targets of the enemy. Now, without helicopters, a ground combat operation has little chance of success.

Combat helicopters became the basis of the army aviation in many countries. The army, equipped with a rotary-wing attack aircraft, received an absolute advantage over the enemy, deprived of such equipment.

Afghan polygon

In 1961, in the USSR, the first flight was made by a Ka-25PL naval helicopter designed to destroy atomic submarines. In 1969, the military MI-24А rose into the air. Each subsequent modification of it - Mi-24D (1972 g.), Mi-24В (1973 g.), Mi-24П (1975 g.) - exceeded the previous one in efficiency. weapons.

As regards the combat experience of using helicopters, by this time the Americans had a definite advantage. But the Soviet machines were not inferior to the American AN-1G Hugh Cobra (1965) and the AN-IS Cobra-Tow (1974) in any of the key parameters of the performance characteristics.

The Mi-24 helicopter was created for the European theater. However, fate was eager to fight, he began in Afghanistan: in a completely different, new for him, conditions. To more clearly present the difference in the physico-geographical conditions of the Afghan and European theaters, suffice it to say that the average height in Europe is approximately 500 m above sea level, and in Afghanistan more than 2000 m, the average positive air temperature in Europe is 15 — 20 degrees, and in Afghanistan - 30 — 35 degrees. Mi-24 required urgent work to increase engine power during takeoff and landing.

Retractable landing gear reduced the helicopter’s radar visibility. Visibility in the infrared range was reduced by shielding engine exhaust. To protect against MANPADS of the type "Strela" and "Stinger" on the Mi-24 installed a system for shooting off false thermal targets and an infrared radiation generator "Ispanka".

During combat operations, it became clear that HAP C-5 are not effective enough. In this connection, Mi-24 with NAR caliber 80 and 122 mm were tested, their use was mastered in horizontal flight and on a gentle dive, as well as with a tailing-down for hitting targets remote from the line of attack on 3 — 5 km. The armament additionally introduced two gondolas with six 7,62 and 12,7 mm caliber machine guns and a total 8300 ammunition ammunition, as well as gondolas with four 40-mm Flame grenade launchers. The armament was also supplemented with two unified cannon containers of the PK-23-250 with guns GSH-23 caliber 23 mm and 500 ammunition ammunition. Now, the power of the Mi-24 weapons was significantly superior to the American Cobras.

Everything is not on textbooks

In this strange war, combat helicopters had to solve tasks, as a rule, independently. Often, the Mi-24 were forced to conduct reconnaissance in force, open firing points and hit targets identified, clearing the way for ground units of the troops. Su-25 storm troopers, sweeping into the blue heights, and ground troops climbing the mountain slopes could do little to help the "turntables."

At the initial stage of the fighting, the crews of the Mi-24 used the accumulated tactics and maneuvers mastered during numerous exercises. They were based on a covert helicopter exit to a given area at extremely low altitudes, a jump and a sudden attack of targets, followed by departure to a low altitude. During such raids, the enemy suffered significant losses.

The losses of helicopters were insignificant and were often caused not by fire damage, but by the lack of skills for pilots to work in high-mountainous areas, gorges and gorge. But foreign advisers that appeared to the enemy quickly made adjustments to the tactics of dealing with helicopters.

The fact is that in mountainous terrain a flight at an extremely low altitude to a given region can be carried out in most cases along a single route. This is known to both the attacking and the defending side. The route of the group of helicopters runs over a lowland bounded on both sides by mountain slopes. In its course between the slopes of the mountains there are restrictions. It was in these places, on the outskirts of the camps, that dushmans were recommended to organize ambushes. The result was not slow. Helicopter combat losses began to grow exponentially.

The Air Force commander had to urgently raise the altitude of flights en route to 2000 — 2500 m above the terrain. It was also recommended to keep as far away from the slopes of the mountains as possible, where the enemy firing points may be located. However, now the groups of helicopters leaving for the mission were seen from afar by observers, who informed in advance about the impending danger.

At the prompting of advisers of a basing site, the enemy began to choose in view of the best organization of air defense. She wore a circular character and was multi-tiered. The tactics of her actions was reduced to a fairly simple and reliable reception. While the helicopters circled at a high altitude and did not pose a danger to the camp, the air defense system was silent, not unmasking itself, letting the helicopters descend. Then, on command, squall fire was launched from all sides.

Scout the air defense system of a particular object in advance almost never succeeded. Therefore, Mi-24 revealed its firing points by reconnaissance in force. To do this, several pairs of combat helicopters consistently declined and caused fire on themselves. After that, using the entire arsenal of weapons and covering each other, they hurried to escape from the ring of fire (in essence, these were suicide crews). In the meantime, other helicopters from the cover group spotted firing points for a subsequent strike.

However, the Mi-24 was quite tenacious even in such conditions. Some cars returned to the base literally riddled. The distribution of bullets on the side surface of the airframe, which was constantly recorded, testified to the improvement of fire resistance from the enemy. At first, the hits were concentrated mainly in the forward fuselage, crew cabs and in the area of ​​the main gearbox. However, with rare exceptions, this did not disable armored helicopters. Soon the distribution of bullet hits sharply shifted toward the tail end of the airframe. Gradually, zones of concentration of holes began to emerge in areas of the loaded joints of the keel beam with the tail and the last with the fuselage, the instrument equipment compartment and the intermediate gearbox, as well as the tail gearbox and the steering screw.

Instructions from experienced advisers were not in vain. They were well aware that the Achilles heel of a single-rotor helicopter is a loaded tail end of the airframe, tail rotor, not duplicated long transmission shafts and gearboxes.

Cobras and Apaches are no exception. Our combat losses have increased. To protect the rear hemisphere of the Mi-24 and Mi-8 helicopters, the Mil Design Bureau and the Air Force Research Institute tried to place shooters with large-caliber machine guns in the rear part of the fuselage. On the Mi-8, this was possible, and on the Mi-24, due to the constructive difficulties, this idea had to be abandoned.

Mi-24 passed the exam for the successful conduct of hostilities in the most difficult conditions of the war in Afghanistan. I am sure that even the new US military helicopters AN-64A Apache and its modifications AH-64D and AH-64D Longbow are unlikely to surpass the Mi-24 in those conditions. After all, they are not intended and are not capable of detecting on the battlefield individual firing points - disguised infantrymen with small arms or with MANPADS. The infantry, which they support from the air, must fight them. For the Apache pilots who participated in Operation Storm in the Desert, where there was practically no fire resistance, Afghanistan would have seemed like hell.

"Black Shark" shows teeth

In 1982, the company KAMOV made the first flight of a combat shock single-seat helicopter of the new generation: Ka-50 “Black Uq Shark”. He is the successor to the legendary Mi-24 and has absorbed all the best of its predecessor.

The main feature of the "Black Shark" - coaxial scheme. With equal engine power, coaxial-rotor helicopters have a thrust of approximately 20% at hover and speeds up to 80 km / h compared to single-rotors with a tail rotor. It is this speed range most often used for maneuvering near the ground, ambushes and attacks due to barriers and shelters. When performing turns on coaxial Ka-50, no additional engine power is required to rotate the tail rotor. Due to this, the Ka-50 exceeds the helicopters of the traditional scheme during combat maneuvering, especially in mountainous conditions and at high air temperatures.

The best maneuver to quickly change the direction of movement at low altitude in order to take a favorable attacking position or care for the shelter is a flat (pedal) turn. Helicopters coaxial schemes perform it efficiently and safely. With single-screw machines, with a certain combination of rotational speed, wind speed and wind direction, the tail rotor may enter the “vortex ring” mode. For this reason, several accidents of Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters occurred. The American AN-64A is not immune from this.

With a maximum take-off mass of 10 800 kg, the Ka-50 has a length of 15,6 m, and an AN-64А - 9525 kg and 17,6 m. A more compact “Black Shark” requires less space for turns. When the readers in the photos see how “Apaches”, hiding behind trees and shelters, demonstrate their maneuverability, it is necessary to bear in mind that Ka-50 does it better.

The tail rotor imposes significant restrictions on the combat maneuver of the AN-64A. At this helicopter, at speeds above 120 — 150 km / h, the conditions for the steering screw and tail boom are limited by sliding or are not allowed at all. Ka-50 is capable of performing a flat turn in the entire range of flight speeds. This allows him in the shortest possible time to take a position advantageous for an attack and win an air duel against an opponent.

No less important quality Ka-50 is its aerodynamic symmetry. The behavior of the Ka-50 when performing spatial figures with reversals left and right is predictable and the same. Cross connections in the control channels are practically absent - one more advantage of the Ka-50 in maneuverable combat.

Of particular note is the low level of vibrations inherent in coaxial helicopters. The Ka-50 has no glider oscillations along the course, similar to those made by the steering screw on a single-rotor helicopter. The low level of vibrations favorably affects the work of radio-electronic equipment and the comfortable conditions for a pilot to perform his functional duties. A simple “Black Shark” piloting technique in combination with a low vibration level reduces aiming errors and dispersion when shooting. Accuracy characteristics of weapons significantly improved. This is confirmed by the results of tests of the Mi-24 and the ship's Ka-29, which have the same sights, cannon and unguided rocket weapons. The accuracy of getting NAR to the Ka-29 was about twice as good. Even more impressive progress was achieved on the Ka-50.

The main means of fighting tanks and infantry fighting vehicles is guided missile weapons. On two mobile launchers, under the wing consoles, the Ka-50 sets up to 12 supersonic ATVM “Vortex” with a launch range of up to 10 km. The aiming complex provides the helicopter with the opportunity to attack ground targets from lines located outside the limits in the effective zones of enemy air defense. No other helicopter is available.

After launch, the missile is aimed at the target automatically by a laser beam. An ATGM hit a tank at ranges up to 8 km with probability 0,9. After starting the pilot there is no need to withstand a certain trajectory of movement, the helicopter can perform a maneuver along the course, altitude and speed of flight. The combat part of the ATGM is unified for hitting ground and air targets moving at speeds up to 800 kilometers per hour. Managed anti-tank weapons have high noise immunity and have no world analogues. As for individual characteristics, and for combat effectiveness, it surpasses the weapons of other machines of similar purpose.

In order not to bore the reader with the transfer of a diverse arsenal of means of defeating the Ka-50, we also note the presence of his Igla-B and P-73 missiles for air combat, as well as the NAR of 80 and 122 mm.

Bare hands do not take

The creators of the Black Shark paid much attention to achieving a high level of combat survivability. Engines and transmissions remain functional for some time after complete loss of oil in the oil tanks. The design is widely used power elements of composite polymeric materials that are resistant to damage by bullets and shrapnel. Provides protection from missiles with heat heads pointing.
The cockpit is fully protected by high-resistant, spaced double steel and aluminum armor. It withstands repeated exposure to small arms bullets and shrapnel.

cannon shells caliber 23 mm. A bulletproof flashlight by armor type Mi-24. Main rotor blades - one of the most critical elements of the design - even in the presence of 30 holes from small arms retain sufficient performance to complete the flight. The weight of the cockpit armor protection exceeds 300 kg. For comparison: armored protection of the AH-64A for two pilots is only about 130 kg.

The only non-duplicated Ka-50 unit is the main gearbox, but it is shielded by the design elements of the engine and the wing. There are a lot of non-duplicated aggregates on AN-64А. Among them are the main, intermediate and tail gearboxes, transmission shafts and steering screw. All of them are not shielded from damage. The new-generation American helicopter in terms of vulnerability is no different from the Mi-24.

Karate right hand
A combat shipboard Ka-29 with the main weapon variant: the “Sturm” anti-tank vehicle, an 2D42 cannon of 30 mm caliber and units of B8B20 Bombing Weapons With a NAR of 60 mm. (left) Ka-50 armament variant with 12 ATVM "Whirlwind" and 2 UPK-23-250 with 23 mm caliber guns and 500 general ammunition ammunition. (on right)

Flies without a tail

Damage or destruction of the rudder and “washers” at the ends of the Ka-50 stabilizer does not lead to a catastrophic situation. In order to maintain track controllability in this case, it is sufficient to reduce the flight speed to 200 km / h or less, and then controllability is provided by changing the reactive torques on the upper and lower rotors. This was confirmed in test flight with a fully removed vertical tail.

Saving the pilot's life in emergency and catastrophic situations is guaranteed by an emergency escape system (SAP). When the SAP is triggered, the blades of the rotor blades are first shot off, then the upper cabin doors open and the jet engines, pulling the seat with the pilot off, with the help of nylon halyards, are triggered. The rescue of the pilot is provided in a controlled and uncontrolled flight in the entire range of speeds and altitudes, including from ground level.

On the Apache, rescue of pilots in an emergency is possible only in a controlled flight, which ends with a rough landing. To effectively depreciate the landing gear and seats, the landing of the machine must be carried out on three points with a roll no more than ± 5 degrees. Already at 10 degrees, depreciation practically does not work. Statistics of the emergency landing of helicopters shows that the landing takes place with angles up to 20 degrees. And how to escape the pilots, if the helicopter will be uncontrollable? What if the flight failed to extinguish the fire? There are no positive responses to AH-64A.

Here you have the “breathtaking” combat survivability of the Apaches, about which foreign authors only superlatively speak.

Day and night

KAMOV Company continues to improve the helicopter attack aircraft. In 1997, the black shark night version appeared. Survey-search system (OPS) of the passive-active type provides it with the ability to use all means of destruction day and night. Day and night Ka-50 will be used together, depending on the specific combat situation.

The success of the ground support operation depends to a large extent on the coherence of the attack helicopters in the group. The team leader’s helicopter should have a richer airborne complex, providing better visibility of the battlefield and communication with the command post. They became the Ka-52 "Alligator" (1997 g.) - a multi-purpose double helicopter. OPS passive-active type allows you to search and attack targets day and night in any weather. Ka-52 is not intended to replace Ka-50. They must act together, thereby achieving the best combat effect.

Question: Helicopters with a coaxial scheme are considered by some specialists to be more difficult to pilot and prone to the so-called “screw tightening”, which once led to a catastrophe?

“Unfortunately, even aces pilots sometimes make mistakes.” At one time, experienced Mi-24 and Ka-50 piloted by test pilots crashed during the performance of demonstration flights. The Kamov Design Bureau together with TsAGI, LII and Air Force institutes have since made certain changes in the design and instructions for piloting the Ka-50. The disaster that occurred 13 years ago, did not affect the fate of the new generation of combat helicopters.

Question: How "tied" Ka-50 to the rear repair bases, how complicated and capricious it is in service?

- Ka-50 with its rich onboard electronic complex and a variety of weapons requires, of course, for the maintenance of various specialists. However, he can carry out combat missions with a given intensity for 12 days in isolation from the main base. At the same time, the necessary types of pre-flight preparations are capable of carrying out a pilot using onboard integrated monitoring systems. As regards the maintainability of the Ka-50, which was created in accordance with the general technical requirements of the Air Force of the new decade, higher demands were placed than on its predecessor Mi-24. 35 percent parts, panels and plating are made of composite polymeric materials. The tail feathers, the airframe lining and the rotor blades are subject to repair in field conditions. In field conditions, for example, all failed equipment blocks, propeller blades, power plant units, and control systems are to be replaced.

Question: How fast can a helicopter be prepared for re-flight?

- “Black Shark” for re-departure requires an external inspection for the absence of combat damage and viewing the metallized tape of the built-in control system “Screen” for the absence of registered failures of systems and equipment. If everything is in order, it remains only to fill the helicopter with fuel and equip it with weapons of destruction. Preparation of the Ka-50 for re-departure in the main version of weapons with an ATGM, cannon and NAR is 20 minutes.

Question: For what main combat missions was the Ka-50 created?

- Attack combat helicopter Ka-50 is designed to destroy modern armored and mechanized vehicles, combat air targets and defeat manpower on the battlefield.

Question: Is it assumed that they will be part of army aviation, or do they have independent combat tasks within separate units (for example, for special purposes)?

- Ka-50 and Ka-52 are intended to be part of army aviation, which is an integral part of the ground forces. Combat helicopters operate over a battlefield in the interests of subunits and units of ground forces. In accordance with the AA charter, they can also perform a number of specific tasks on their own.
In the first variant, the interaction between the combat helicopters and other participants in the operation will be better organized. However, the isolation of the Ka-50 and Ka-52 pilots from AA will affect their professional level. There will certainly be a problem with the promotion of pilots. It is possible that a separate unit is created within the AA, which, in addition to general training, is also undergoing special training.

Question: Were the options for using helicopters in conjunction with parts of Special Forces?

- Ka-50 and Ka-52 have no contraindications for conducting combat operations with special forces. The effectiveness of their application depends on the perfection of the organization of the planned operation and the skillful guidance of their actions in flight.

Question: But, as you said, the Mi-24 was less convenient for special forces than the old Mi-8, since the delivery of the troops on it was extremely difficult?

- Indeed, the Mi-24 proved to be less effective than the Mi-8МТ, for the landing of the assault. In addition, a cargo cabin weighing about a ton has significantly impaired its maneuverability and take-off and landing characteristics. The research and experience in the hostilities in Afghanistan led to the understanding that AA should have both purely combat strikes and armed helicopters for the assault landing and evacuation of the wounded from the battlefield, closely interacting with each other. In the interests of AA, KAMOV is building a low-profile Ka-60 high-speed helicopter with a take-off weight of 6500 kg, designed for 14 transport, fully equipped paratroopers or 6 injured on stretchers with three accompanying medical personnel. The function of evacuating the wounded or delivering a landing force by the military Ka-50 and Ka-52 in the TTZ was not specified.

Question: The Chechen war showed the need to use helicopters at low altitudes, but in this case they are subjected to intense fire by all means of air defense, even grenade launchers and machine guns. How much is this taken into account in Ka-50?

- Ka-50 is equipped with a pilot warning system about the exposure of the device to enemy enemy laser and radar stations to take timely masking measures by going to extremely small heights (10 — 25 m) using the screening effect of the terrain.
To reduce the infrared visibility at the exit of the engines, screen-mounted exhaust devices are installed, and a system for shooting off false heat targets is available for jamming missiles with thermal homing heads.
The retractable landing gear contributes to a decrease in radar visibility, and camouflage coloring to match the color of the terrain with a low reflective effect contributes to the optical one. Depending on the terrain, altitude, and specifically the current combat situation, the pilot can use the entire range of horizontal flight speeds from 0 to 310 km / h, and taking into account the possibility of diving - to 390 km / h.
As for small arms, the Ka-50 has powerful circular cockpit armor, a resistant to destruction structure of power elements, shielding vital aggregates with less important, effective fire extinguishing system and preventing fuel explosion in tanks.

Question: How picky Ka-50 to the quality of the platform for takeoff and landing?

- The high efficiency of coaxial rotors and the lack of power loss to the drive of the missing tail rotor ensured the Ka-50, the largest static ceiling among existing helicopters: 4000 m. In high-altitude conditions, it can successfully land and take-off from platforms located at altitudes up to 4000 m, using the hang outside the influence of the screen surface of the earth (15 m and more).
With the height of the 3 — 5 hang-up m using the surface screen, take-off and landing can also be carried out at high altitudes, including those with a greater take-off weight.
The wheeled chassis is designed to operate the machine on the ground or with a 6 kg / sq. cm - that is, on the trampled earthen areas. For operation on areas with a softer ground apply additional installed skis. From the point of view of the nature of the surface of the site, the Ka-50 is less whimsical in comparison with the helicopters of the traditional scheme due to the absence of the tail rotor, which can be damaged by stones, pebbles, pieces of ice, raised by the air flow from the rotor. The magnitude of the slopes of the sites, it does not differ from the Mi-24.

All-weather Ka-31 detection at long-range low-flying aircraft and helicopters
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  1. svp67
    svp67 April 20 2013 08: 14 New
    The eternal dispute between “Kamov” and “Mil” ... They would have decided, but would have equipped the troops with the proper number of new helicopters.
    1. vadimus
      vadimus April 20 2013 08: 49 New
      Still, more high-class pilots. I hope for a change ... but the technology will not fail!
      1. Civil
        Civil April 20 2013 22: 40 New
        1. skeptic
          skeptic April 21 2013 22: 23 New
          Sorry, maybe I missed something. but the KA-50 is not in production. Perhaps the article used is old, because KA-52 launched into production, as the main, combined-arms, Kamov helicopter.
    2. Rustam
      Rustam April 20 2013 12: 33 New
      This debate about who will always be better, by the way, the more competition the better the product.
      Yes, about the Ka-50, this helicopter was lost forever, and the remainder is a few units at the Kamov company and in Torzhok they are getting their resource (Ka 50 appeared at an inappropriate time)

      In my opinion there are several problems that need to be solved in order to compete with American models

      1- Have a modern avionics

      2- have enemy defeat systems not inferior to Western models in terms of accuracy and launch range
    3. Orik
      Orik April 20 2013 13: 37 New
      I think there is no reason to argue. First, two schools are better than one, higher system sustainability and there is healthy competition. Second, there is a specialization of firms. Kamov, mountains and navy. Miles, plain.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 28 May 2014 15: 39 New
        I personally don’t like either the Ka-50 (they lost such a wonderful helicopter, only 2 or 4 are left now), or the Mi-24 of various modifications (it’s a shame that as many as 12 percent of power is taken away by an unprotected tail rotor). My sympathies are on the side of the Ka-29. Think for yourself - on one helicopter it was possible to effectively combine small arms, missile and cannon weapons: the GShG, although it has a simple rifle caliber of 7.62x54P, but turned out to be much more reliable than the YakB. In addition, there is an extremely powerful 30mm 2A42 gun. Well, just the presence of 4 suspension points, where even Hermes hangs freely, complete the look. Idear helicopter!
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 20 2013 08: 19 New
    Living close to the factory, we constantly see these machines in the air - 50,52. These are just miracles performed in the air. Give everyone health and multiply our glorious Air Force many more times!
  3. vadson
    vadson April 20 2013 08: 53 New
    handsome men that 50 that 52, more like Milev cars. they are more graceful chtoli
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 20 2013 12: 19 New
      Quote: vadson
      more like than Milev cars. they are more graceful chtoli

      You shouldn’t be so. Mi-24 is a plowman TVD. Thanks to him, KA 50-52 appeared. Thanks to experience and mistakes, these helicopters appeared. About the Ka series helicopters, I once wrote a comment about what the Americans had in the cinema in the 80s (the Blue Thunder movie) we already flew a similar apparatus.
      1. 320423
        320423 April 21 2013 00: 04 New
        And I like a lot in Surogaty 2009 sh. from 23 to 25 minutes there is an excerpt where Mi 28 and ka 50 are perfectly visible. Excellent advertising for our helicopters. Their helicopters for the future do not pull !!!
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 April 21 2013 17: 41 New
        Quote: Sirocco
        Mi-24 is a plowman TVD. Thanks to him, KA 50-52 appeared.

        Yes, in KB them. Kamov analyzed the operating experience and most importantly the combat use of the Crocodile. But one should not forget that in parallel with the development of the Mi-24 in the Kamov Design Bureau, work was underway on the strike Ka-25F ("frontline"). And later developments on it were applied in the design of the Black Shark ...

        Layout Ka-25F
  4. Mitek
    Mitek April 20 2013 09: 18 New
    Quote: svp67
    The eternal dispute between “Kamov” and “Mil” ... They would have decided, but would have equipped the troops with the proper number of new helicopters.

    I am not a pilot, but I think that there should be at least 2 schools. Classical KB Mil and coaxial KB Kamov. The more minds work in one direction, but the different roads the better. And nobody canceled the healthy competition. Who knows, maybe the next generation car will collect the best from both schools.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 28 May 2014 15: 42 New
      What do you think - is it possible to organize a company, hire engineers and create a cool cross-section combat helicopter? The Mi-12 convincingly showed us that the cross-sectional scheme is very significantly superior to the classical one in carrying capacity. No wonder the Mi-12 is still the most load-bearing helicopter in history!
  5. UFO
    UFO April 20 2013 09: 28 New
    Honestly, the fact that the Ka-50 did not go into the series, I consider it to be sabotage. We reformed the Armed Forces, created brigades of constant combat readiness, why not subordinate the 1st KA-52 (for target designation and control) and 3-5 Ka-50 (a kind of "death squad") to the brigade of the Specialized Rifle Brigade or Special Operations Brigade. The effectiveness of the actions of such a team grows at times as well as the speed of response. Why Ka-50? Because there are people who are "lone wolves", "when success is not divided by all," aces like Kozhedub, Pokryshkin and others, a sniper in the infantry. By the way, motorized rifles to help out a downed pilot who is "known by sight" will go with special feelings. Any brigade commander to have such a "fist of water" from 2-4 links would not be bad.
  6. 501Legion
    501Legion April 20 2013 10: 24 New
    it’s a pity that they didn’t write anything about Mi28, but still the article is not bad
  7. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya April 20 2013 11: 50 New
    Quote: Mitek
    Quote: svp67
    The eternal dispute between “Kamov” and “Mil” ... They would have decided, but would have equipped the troops with the proper number of new helicopters.

    I am not a pilot, but I think that there should be at least 2 schools. Classical KB Mil and coaxial KB Kamov. The more minds work in one direction, but the different roads the better. And nobody canceled the healthy competition. Who knows, maybe the next generation car will collect the best from both schools.

    I completely agree with the commentator, only by competing among themselves, the designers will achieve the maximum heights of helicopter construction, one of the schools can drop out only after complete unsuitability, proven during long-term operation!
  8. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 20 2013 12: 36 New
    I saw both of these helicopters in business, but the Kama machine truly looks amazing and works on purpose. And what he does in flight will not be able to perform any NATO helicopter.
  9. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 April 20 2013 12: 36 New
    And yet I am convinced that the KA-50 was in vain pushed back, the car is slaughter. due to the fact that it has one pilot, its armor protection is increased, maneuverability is improved. In general, there are a lot of advantages over a double helicopter. The conservatism of military officials, this is the only reason preventing the promotion of the KA-50 in the army.
    1. UFO
      UFO April 20 2013 15: 51 New
      Most likely he wasn’t just “pushed” - someone really wanted, there is nothing like that in “one helmet” of potential “friends”, there is NOTHING to contrast THERE with similar characteristics !!! The snake warmed itself somewhere on his chest. angry
    2. sasha127
      sasha127 April 21 2013 07: 52 New
      These are my opinions. I fully agree with you.
      It’s a pity that the Ka-50 was almost stolen. An excellent flight, once a great country.
  10. Alexey M
    Alexey M April 20 2013 13: 46 New
    Both and more. And something else to come up with something that scares the adversary.
  11. Pimply
    Pimply April 20 2013 13: 47 New
    Marvelous pearls are found in the article. For example, about the Apache’s inability to track single targets
    1. Saburov
      Saburov April 21 2013 00: 23 New
      Here is a comment by a sniper pilot about our and western cars.

      Gentlemen, we are talking about serial combat helicopters. I mentioned the glider for good reason; today the Mi-24 as a whole does not meet the requirements for combat helicopters. But is it so seriously out of date? And how much the customer requirements and the realities of today coincide.
      Let's compare the Mi-24 (the most common modifications B and P) with the American AH-64D 'Apache Longbow'
      Let's start by comparing the flight tactical characteristics, namely: maximum and cruising speeds, static and dynamic ceilings, range and ferry range.
      Mi-24 (B, P)
      -speed 335 / 270km / h
      -static ceiling 1500m
      -Dynamic ceiling 4500m
      500km combat range
      - Ferry range of at least 1200km.
      -speed 309 / 260km / h
      -static ceiling 4570m
      -Dynamic ceiling6250m
      611km combat range
      1900 km ferry range
      At first glance, all the numbers, except for the maximum speed in favor of the American. But let's take a closer look again, have you noticed anything strange?
      Flight and tactical characteristics (hereinafter referred to as LTX) of the Mi-24 are expressed in round numbers, but Apache does not.
      I explain: gentlemen the Americans, unsurpassed masters of launching drank into our eyes and in order not to be unfounded, let us first solve two small problems.
      1) Given: 1157l fuel supply in the main tanks and four 871l suspension tanks, 1900km range. The question is, what is the kilometer fuel consumption?
      2) Given: 1157l fuel reserve, 611km combat range. The question is the same.
      Answer: in the first case 2,44l / km, in the second 1,89l / km.
      Doesn't fit together? Everything converges, the fact is that fuel consumption depends on the load and drag. And the load in case of distillation was initially increased by 2787kg of additional fuel plus the weight of the suspension tanks. Also, hanging tanks increased drag.
      Stop, but is a flight carried out without load for combat use?
      Yes gentlemen, the range in 611km was obtained on a lightweight (without weapons and armor) helicopter!
      As for the static and dynamic ceilings, in these cases even the main tanks were not completely refueled.
      All declared Apache LTH (as well as any other American equipment), these are the numbers obtained in test flights on lightweight models!
      We have a completely different principle, all the main flight characteristics (with the exception of distillation) are performed by any combat aircraft with a standard combat load, regardless of the duration of its operation. More is possible, but less is not.
      For example: the dynamic ceiling Mi-24P (release 1986g) is 4500m. So, your humble servant on this type of helicopter (being 'behind the river') with the following load: two B-20 units, two Sturm ATGMs, two hundred and fifty shells for the GSNX2-30, due to tactical necessity, reached 5200m.
      What does the maximum speed of 335km / h mean? It was obtained as follows, from the maximum speed achieved during testing of a production model in standard combat equipment, 50km / h was subtracted, and then rounding down was carried out.
      Similarly received and the rest of the LTX helicopter Mi-24.
      I think that means the maximum speed in 309km / h achieved on Apache is no longer necessary to explain. You can only take off your hat before the skill of the tester, who managed to accelerate the 'brick' to such a speed.
      Now about such an important parameter as combat survivability.
      Combat survivability is the ability of a helicopter to continue flying (to perform a combat mission) when exposed to weapons.
      This is achieved by duplication of vital units and systems, as well as by booking the above.
      1. Saburov
        Saburov April 21 2013 00: 27 New
        If the Americans have already learned to duplicate units (although they still use single-engine helicopters in the army), things are very bad with booking.
        The fact is that booking a helicopter entails quite serious problems, the weight of the structure increases, the mass return decreases (that is, the payload decreases), and flight characteristics decrease. On Mi-24, the brilliant Ilyushin invention was applied to solve the above-mentioned problems: not to burden the finished fuselage with false armor (as done on Apache), but to make the armor a fuselage. On 'Mi-24' the crew is housed in an armored hull, as on the famous 'Il-2'. Your humble servant had the opportunity to see for yourself the effectiveness of the Mi-24 armor. Otherwise, I would not write these lines:
        Apache, for some reason, most likely commercial, is very poorly armored (well, why, due to some kind of armor, spoil the price list with reduced flight characteristics, it’s easier to declare the possibility of defeating the enemy without entering the zone of possible shelling). And combat helicopters have to enter this zone, but more on that below.
        The survivability of an armored helicopter is many times higher. Survivability is estimated not by the total number of combat losses, but by the number of hits from a particular type of weapon directly into the helicopter necessary for it to be among these losses. For example, there have been cases of returning to the Mi-24 base after being hit by a Stinger missile, one rifle bullet was enough for Apache. Yes, in Iraq, the Apache was very likely shot down by a rifle bullet, because it did not (based on the TV report) show visible damage from heavier weapons. The statement by the American side that the helicopter landed on an emergency landing due to engine failure in a dust storm is a propaganda move, and not very smart. Even 'Apaches' do not fly into a dust storm (like all existing helicopters), in addition, there are not one but two engines (moreover equipped with so-called 'ROMs', that is, dust protection devices) even if one of them fails the ability to fly even with climb. So what happens, or the engines on the Apaches are useless, or the ROMs? So much for the survivability of the Apaches. It’s interesting what survivability of the Apaches will be in those combat conditions from which, despite the damage, the Mi-24 still returned.
        But it’s not enough to survive on the battlefield, you also need to destroy the enemy. But first you need to find it. The Americans claim that they solved these problems by installing a millimeter-wave radar, as well as developing a new Hellfair-B rocket.
        Let's face it.
        1. Saburov
          Saburov April 21 2013 00: 29 New
          Why do we need combat helicopters? For direct support of ground forces on the battlefield in conditions of visual contact, both with their units and with the enemy (for other conditions, there are attack aircraft, fighter-bombers, front-line bombers). To reduce the likelihood of defeat from enemy air defenses, helicopter crews perform a combat mission at extremely low altitudes. Based on this, appropriate weapons and equipment are installed on helicopters. Does every combat helicopter need a radar? The question is not simple. Of course, the millimeter-wave radar has a number of advantages, the main of which is the ability to distinguish the shape of an object, for example, under ideal conditions, it can distinguish a tractor from a tank. Why in perfect? Here you need to dwell on some of the features of the radar. Since the invention of the above and in the process of its use, it has been revealed that the higher the operating frequency of the radar, the higher its resolution, that is, the ability to detect smaller objects. But at the same time, the shorter the wavelength (higher frequency), the lower its penetrating ability. If a meter-range radar is capable of detecting an airplane in the clouds, then a millimeter-wave radar perfectly distinguishes only the shape of the clouds. A millimeter wave will simply bounce off the surface of the cloud. For millimeter-wave radar to work effectively, an ideal atmosphere condition is required. The millimeter-wave radar is incapable of distinguishing a real tank from a layout, and most importantly, it is completely useless in conditions of heavy snow, sandstorm, dense fog, dust. Also ineffective is its use in mountainous, wooded areas, as well as in urban areas. It should also be borne in mind that in real combat operations, the effectiveness of the radar can be significantly reduced by electronic warfare. I am not an adversary of the radar as a means of detecting the adversary; I simply do not need to consider the radar a panacea. A millimeter radar is quite appropriate and necessary on a reconnaissance helicopter, since even taking into account the above disadvantages, it still increases the effectiveness of the latter. But a combat helicopter radar is contraindicated. A combat helicopter equipped with a radar is easy prey for enemy air defense. Why? Yes, because the radar, among other things, is a powerful source of electromagnetic radiation and for the effective operation of the radar you must have a height of at least 50 meters. It is impossible to imagine the best present for modern air defense systems. Against this background, optical detection systems have a distinct advantage. They do not unmask the carrier, in addition, they allow for more accurate selection of targets. Equipping the Apaches with the aforementioned radar, the Americans contradict their own helicopter tactics, which are based on hidden approach and the use of ambushes. That is, to hit the enemy and at the same time not to reveal oneself ahead of time. And what kind of secrecy can we talk about if the radar is a powerful unmasking tool! Yes, of course, at the training ground, in ideal weather conditions, the Apache crews quite successfully hit the mock-ups and decommissioned military equipment. And what did the real fighting show? All the same, the successful defeat of prototypes and decommissioned military equipment, plus civilian objects and civilians. Which was proved in Yugoslavia, and then in Iraq. So it’s too early to write off optical systems, they will still serve. But the goal is not enough to detect, a combat helicopter must destroy it. For this purpose, an armament complex is installed on the helicopter, the main of which is guided missile weapons. Let us dwell on it in detail. Guided missiles, regardless of their combat mission, are divided into three groups:
          _ passive guidance
          _ semi-active guidance
          _ active guidance.
          1. Saburov
            Saburov April 21 2013 00: 35 New
            The principle of passive guidance is based on the target’s own radiation (thermal or radio radiation), in this case the missile is equipped with the so-called 'homing head', which brings the missile to the target. The advantage of this principle is that the operator works on the principle of "let-forget", hence the main drawback, if necessary, it is impossible to intervene in the guidance process. The probability of hitting a target with such a missile is rather low, approximately 0,3-0,4. This principle of guidance has become widespread in man-portable air defense systems (MANPADS).
            The principle of semi-active guidance is based on external illumination of the target from an external source (radar laser beam), in this case the missile is also equipped with a homing head, but strictly tuned to the emitter code. With this guidance method, the operator must illuminate the target until it is hit by a rocket. The advantage of such guidance lies in the possibility of 'highlighting' the target from another (not installed on the carrier) source, in which case the carrier will be able to act on the principle of 'let-forget.' The possibility of re-targeting the rocket by the operator is virtually eliminated. The disadvantage of this guidance method is that the missile is capable of self-re-targeting to a brighter target (the case when a Ukrainian aircraft was hit by a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile). The probability of hitting a target with such a missile is approximately 0,6-0,7 (for laser illumination more than 0,8). This guidance principle is used in obsolete anti-aircraft missile systems, as well as in both versions (for the AGM-114A laser, for the AGM-114 B radar) ATGM 'Hellfaer'. The principle of active guidance is based on the direct control of the flight of a rocket (via radio, or wires) by an operator (automatic) located on the carrier. The advantages of this method are that the operator has full control of the guidance of the rocket, the defeat of the 'false' target is practically excluded, there is the possibility of re-targeting. The disadvantage is that the operator is obliged to carry out the guidance of the rocket until it meets the target. The probability of defeat is more than 0,8. Most modern anti-aircraft missile systems, ATGMs "Sturm" and "Attack", as well as outdated (guided by wire), but still in service with the US Army ATGM "Tou", work on this principle.
            1. Saburov
              Saburov April 21 2013 00: 37 New
              As for the Hellfire missile, it is not guided by radar, it is a 'semi-active' missile that requires target illumination with a coded laser beam, or radar radiation from an external source. It sounds beautiful, but it doesn’t have any special advantages over the Sturm and Attack missiles, while the Hellfire-A has very serious shortcomings, disruption of guidance in the conditions of smoke and dust (which is almost always present in the combat area) the impossibility of aiming at targets that do not have a reflective surface (embrasure of the bunker), the impossibility of using at night. It was for the possibility of night use was developed 'Hellfire-B'. But along with the aforementioned advantage, this missile received such disadvantages as a high probability of spontaneous re-targeting, a unmasking homing process and what is also a higher cost. Amazingly, the Hellfire rocket, of both modifications, has a subsonic speed, 4km distance. it arrives in 15 seconds (for comparison, the "obsolete" Sturm rocket overcomes the same distance in 9 seconds). In order to overcome the declared maximum range of 7 km. The Hellfire missile will take 22 seconds, perhaps the tank crew will have time to drink coffee before proceeding with the installation of a smoke screen, or passive interference. The installation of a smoke screen (the most common way to mask armored vehicles) is not always effective against the Sturm missile. It is enough for the operator to see a fragment of the target (or the contours of the target) through the smoke screen to hit the target. It is also very likely that a completely invisible target is struck if its position is known (it was possible to detect before setting the smoke screen) relative to visible landmarks. The Hellfire-A missile in these cases is completely useless.
              Now about sore, about avionics.
              To say that the Mi-24 is not just obsolete avionics, to say nothing.
              What is only one ballistic computer weighing in 300kg!
              At the same time, because of his "super-precision", he is never used, I personally have never used it for 12 years of flights on the Mi-24.
              Modernization of avionics alone will allow the Mi-24 to 'lose weight' by almost a ton!
              Well, how are your competitors doing?
              1. Saburov
                Saburov April 21 2013 00: 40 New
                There is another extreme, computers shove there, displays where you can and where you can not.
                And what, the electronic warfare (hereinafter EW) has already been canceled?
                And how are you going to exploit the Apaches in isolation from the bases?
                Now about the requirements of the customer and the realities of the day.
                I don’t know how you do, but I have long had the feeling that in the West everything has been turned upside down on this issue. That is, not the customer determines the necessary characteristics of weapons based on tactical requirements, but the manufacturer, based on commercial ones.
                Before declaring which helicopters we need, let's figure out what combat missions they perform. According to the tactics of ground forces aviation, combat helicopters are intended for direct fire support of ground forces on the battlefield, as well as for the destruction of small, armored targets, inaccessible for destruction by other types of aviation. The specifics of the combat use of helicopters in the visual detection and recognition of targets. Recently, another combat mission has been added, the fight against terror. As the experience of local conflicts shows, combat helicopters are better than other aircraft adapted to the conditions of guerrilla (anti-terrorist) warfare. And as you know, guerrilla warfare is characterized by the small number of combat groups, the conduct of hostilities mainly at night, and the absence of a solid front line. Under these conditions, combat helicopters are constantly at risk of being fired from small arms. In addition, massive tank attacks are not expected.
                1. Saburov
                  Saburov April 21 2013 00: 42 New
                  Therefore, in order to satisfy the requirements of both full-scale and anti-terrorist wars, a combat helicopter must have the following equipment, weapons and flight characteristics: flight and navigation equipment that allows you to pilot and put the helicopter on target day and night in any weather conditions, search and sighting equipment that allows search for the enemy, as well as carry out aiming day and night in any weather conditions, an armament complex allowing to hit both manpower and bro etankovuyu technique tactical flight characteristics allowing to perform the piloting and combat use in a wide range of speeds and heights, and high mobility. Special requirements for flight and navigation and search and sighting equipment, they should not have external radiation, as well as the possibility of autonomous functioning.
                  Does the Mi-24 helicopter in service with the Russian army meet the above requirements?
                  The answer is obvious, the Mi-24 helicopter, according to flight data and the weapon system, fully meets today's requirements. But due to outdated navigation and sighting equipment, it can no longer be used with maximum efficiency.
                  What is the way out of this situation? Adoption of a new helicopter, or modernization of the old? According to the prevailing practice in the aviation world, aircraft undergo modernization, the flight characteristics of which are still quite satisfactory, but outdated weapons, sighting systems and flight and navigation equipment no longer meet modern requirements.
                  It is the flight characteristics that are decisive in making a decision to upgrade the aircraft, or to remove it from service.
                  1. Saburov
                    Saburov April 21 2013 00: 46 New
                    In the case of 'Mi-24' there can be no 'or'. It is foolish, both from an economic and tactical point of view, to disarm the proven combat conditions of the fastest combat helicopter. Glider 'Mi-24' (glider based component of the aircraft, as well as the body of a passenger car) in aerodynamics and armoring is more advanced than that of the helicopter 'AN-64'. Glider, plus the power plant set the flight characteristics. Flight performance, plus weapons and sighting navigation system, determine the tactical effectiveness of the helicopter.
                    Conducting a relatively inexpensive (compared with the development and introduction of a new helicopter series) modernization, replacing the sighting navigation system and improving weapons, allows the Mi-24 to again become the most effective combat helicopter.
                    One of the significant drawbacks of modernization is that the entry into service of new equipment is delayed. Mil Design Bureau has found a very successful solution to this problem. Modernization of the Mi-24 is carried out using developments designed for the Mi-28 helicopter (personally, I consider this to be the same design feat as the introduction of the IL-2 carrying armored hull).
                    Modernization of 'Mi-24', this is a phased introduction to the series 'Mi-28'!
                    1. Saburov
                      Saburov April 21 2013 00: 47 New
                      By the way, this is well understood in the company 'McDonnell-Douglas'.
                      The most painful topic for American arms manufacturers is the price-performance ratio. This indicator has always been in favor of Soviet technology. Hope soared for McDonnell-Douglas with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the ensuing crisis in the Russian economy. It seemed like happiness, the resources of Mi-24 were ending, the production of Mi-28 and Ka-50 was in question and there was no competition for AN-64. And suddenly on you, modernization! Moreover, which does not leave any chances for Apache in the foreseeable future. With the money needed to buy one Apache, you can upgrade 8 (two links) Mi-24! And here again, the newly admitted NATO members do not want to abandon Soviet (Russian) equipment, which is a shame for comparing the un-modernized Mig-29 with the modernized F-18, when 50 won the Mig-49 from 29 aerial training battles. Now many aviation experts in the world are comparing the 'AN-64' with the 'Mi-28' and 'Ka-50'. Soon they will have to make a comparison between the upgraded Mi-24 and AN-64 and not in favor of the latter.
                      1. stranik72
                        stranik72 April 21 2013 12: 32 New
                        Comment worthy of a professional, but the Mi-24 is a unique combat complex, and the possibilities for its modernization are not exhausted, only the path that our topmanagers (MI-35M) chose is actually a crime against common sense and deceiving the public. The Mi-35M helicopter in terms of performance characteristics turned out worse than its prototype, and comparing it with the AN-64 is simply ridiculous because the latter is better. Yes, there is hope, but the truth is there is no reason for this word, that the MI-24 will be modernized according to the patterns of the mid-80s, taking into account the achievements in avionics and avionics of today, then it would be possible to “fight” and so will the KA-52 be promoted again, although it is clear to everyone that this is a specific helicopter and it is not a soldier on the battlefield, he is a special operations soldier and this is not enough for the main combat helicopter.
                      2. Basarev
                        Basarev 28 May 2014 16: 08 New
                        Personally, from my point of view, the Ka-29 is a naval Mi-24. Only better, since the coaxial circuit makes it more compact and uses engine power more efficiently. The introduction of carrier armor and cutting-edge avionics plus Hermes and the maximum combat load (GSHG, 2A42 and missiles) will result in the most powerful combat helicopter. Oh yes, also new, more powerful engines.
                    2. Raven1972
                      Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 20 New
                      Thank you so much for the interesting review of the Mi-24, i.e. received from a specialist - it is many orders of magnitude more interesting and valuable ... hi good
    2. Windbreak
      Windbreak April 21 2013 09: 36 New
      Quote: Saburov
      What does the maximum speed of 335km / h mean? It was obtained as follows, from the maximum speed achieved during testing of a production model in standard combat equipment, 50km / h was subtracted, and then rounding down was carried out.
      Here are just a world record of 368,4 km / h was set on the most lightweight Mi-24, with wings removed, weapons and armor
      1. Falcon33
        Falcon33 April 21 2013 22: 28 New
        Quote: Burel
        Here are just a world record of 368,4 km / h was set on the most lightweight Mi-24, with wings removed, weapons and armor

        August 1982 Mi-24D distillation for overhaul from Afghanistan (4 UB-32 and 2DB 950L each in the cargo compartment) speed to the horizon. flight at 20m -350km / h on the instrument, behind the group (and the follower was catching up with me! laughing)
        In the manual on air. battles with the Apaches (late 80s) it was said that with the suspension of URs on the "Indian" the speed was limited to 260, due to the strength of the suspension attachment points. Not found - eliminated?
  • MAG
    MAG April 20 2013 15: 17 New
    In April 2001, I saw the KA-50 in Chechnya flying normally, but escorting him mixed-1 MI 8 and 2 crocodiles! And then on TV they said that they had run in laughing
  • lazy
    lazy April 20 2013 17: 10 New
    I am definitely for Kamov, thanks to the coaxial design, it is less susceptible to crosswinds, easier to pilot, compared to the Mi-24 (I do not argue the honored hard worker) it has a high rate of climb, and this is not unimportant in mountainous areas (in Chechnya there was a case when a pair of Mi-8 and mi-24 fell into cloud cover, mi 8 successfully crossed a mountain range, but mi-24 didn’t), the ejected seats are embarrassed by the flight profile in the combat area is often characterized by the words "trees, birds, wires) and the pilots simply will not have time for react at a height of 5-50 meters, on the other hand on toronto on YouTube I saw a mi-24 hit roller which for some reason flew at a high altitude and there, too, the pilots had no chance, it might be worth compiling both catapults and energy-absorbing devices. And the ka-52 is also handsome.
  • Mister X
    Mister X April 20 2013 17: 52 New
    The author missed one important property Ka-50.
    The Ka-50 on-board computer remembers the flight route,
    and if the pilot loses the ability to control the helicopter,
    the car turns around and returns to the base automatically.

    This combat vehicle was automated and computerized at 80% twenty years ago.
    Ka-50 has the most advanced satellite navigation and closed-channel telecode channels.
    He has excellent computer software and long before the Mi-28H was adapted
    not just for night flights, but for night warfare.
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 April 21 2013 12: 15 New
      You just need to fantasize, the KA-50 was born in Soviet times and there was nothing on it that definitely made it better than the Mi-28. In any case, an attempt to demonstrate its “unique” combat capabilities in the Caucasus failed because there is nothing of the kind.
      1. Mister X
        Mister X April 21 2013 15: 18 New
        Both the products of the Kamov plant and the Mil helicopters -
        worthy competitors.
        This is the pride of Soviet helicopter engineering, created to surprise and envy the whole world.
        And Ka-50 (52), and Mi-28 (H) have the right to life, but as already mentioned above -
        Kamov’s cars are imprisoned for mountainous areas and the navy, and Mil is for the plains.

        And it’s not the Shark’s fault that they brought her to the Caucasus once to show and scare partisans.
        Remember what is going on in the Ministry of Defense and think:
        they were concerned about new types of weapons or they were racking their brains
        how to get a chef from the city of Paryzhu in your kitchen?
      2. Kir
        Kir April 21 2013 16: 27 New
        Well, to begin with, the Ka-50/52 family has a gun located in the center of mass area. and as a result, the accuracy is higher, the glider itself is better, about bailout and on-board computer it has already been said, the rate of climb is higher and much more, of course, Mi has its pluses.
        1. stranik72
          stranik72 April 21 2013 20: 40 New
          They do not have anything that you named a single + (except for the catapult which no one has ever used in the history of its existence for more than 30 June) in a dispute with Mi Ka.
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 39 New
            Doa))) One possibility of flying WITHOUT TAIL tail already puts it one step higher ... + smaller dimensions due to the lack of a tail rotor, which means better maneuverability ... And we add to this autorotation landing for which either a minimum speed is required or low height - unfortunately for Milevsky cars it turns out much worse, due to additional loads on the transmission ...
            I really love the Mi-24, it is a wonderful machine, I do not want to belittle its advantages in any way, it has proved itself very well ... Unfortunately, the Ka-50/52 did not have such an opportunity (((((((((( (((
      3. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 30 New
        The autopilot was born much earlier than the 80s and still shows itself perfectly in all aircraft))) And how do you like the PNK with the helmet-mounted aiming sight on the Ka-50 pilot? In the 80s, our Western "friends" only had this in their dreams ... So let's not talk about the "lagging" USSR that existed only in the minds of dissident liberals .... am
        1. Kir
          Kir April 21 2013 23: 10 New
          All the same, no matter what, but with regards to the helmet, I really don’t know maybe something has changed in Krasnogorsk, although according to rumors everything was as it was in ........., and now there, so the French wanted to buy helmets from Thomson.
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 22 2013 14: 51 New
            No, it’s like they left the original one, at least on the Ka-50 ... Dad, when he was in the Kamov center in the UTO, the instructors with the Ka-50 with our helmets were ... hi
  • Phoenix-D
    Phoenix-D April 20 2013 19: 37 New
    Powerful car.
  • Klim
    Klim April 20 2013 19: 53 New
    The article resembles a Kamov company brochure, we are waiting for a response from Mil.
    1. Mister X
      Mister X April 21 2013 18: 36 New
      What to expect? Sami and write.
      Accustomed to scolding, and to praise the bourgeois.

      You might think that Coca-Cola is the best and most healthy drink in the world.
      Or maybe Narzan or Essentuki in a penny package?

      "If you pay more than a dime for a bar of soap,
      then you’ll be taken for bad perfume and wrapper. "
      O. Henry "Gold and Love"

      From myself I’ll add: and advertising.

      A lot in this world depends on lobbying:
      to be able to "push" a law, idea or product.
      In this case, a helicopter.
  • Diesel
    Diesel April 20 2013 19: 58 New
    Until now, I consider him the best Soviet-Russian helicopter. Still to develop an analogue of hellfaires, he would not have a price
    1. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 42 New
      We do not need any Hellfire)) The whirlwind is much orders of magnitude better .... Take an interest in it for the sake of interest ....
  • DuraLexSedLex.
    DuraLexSedLex. April 20 2013 21: 06 New
    I apologize to both members of the forum and those who are better versed in aircraft manufacturing than I. But the very concept of Kamov, even performed with 1 pilot, that is, the Ka-50 (which, by the way, with modern avionics is possible without sacrificing machine survivability and its combat use), is better than the Ka-52 and the like ...
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 20 2013 21: 44 New
    When making turns on the coaxial Ka-50, no additional engine power is required to rotate the tail rotor.

    The classic turns in the direction exclusively by changing the tail rotor thrust, the entrance to the right turn should be very difficult, I can’t quite imagine the mechanics on the nipple, but at least it should be symmetrical.

    Coaxial helicopters perform it efficiently and safely. With single-rotor machines, with a certain combination of rotational speed, wind speed and direction, the tail rotor may enter the “vortex ring” mode. For this reason, there were several accidents of the Mi-8 and Mi-24 helicopters.

    That is, even the statement that it is easier for the co-pilot to get into the vortex ring is highly controversial, because he simply does not have to perform such dangerous maneuvers in many cases. And, possibly, falling into a vortex ring with the demolition of the tail boom is even more likely for a classic than overlapping with a coaxial.

    The weight of the armor protection of the cockpit exceeds 300 kg. For comparison: the armor protection of the AN-64A for two pilots is only about 130 kg.

    In aviation, EVERYTHING is determined by weight. Therefore, by the way, it is necessary to justify not the Ka-50 uniqueness, but the need for a second pilot, because this is somewhere a ton of extra weight that could be used for something useful.

    On the AN-64A there are a lot of duplicated units.

    And someone else claims that duplicating a pilot clearly increases the chances of survival.

    35 percent of parts, panels, and cladding are made of composite polymeric materials.

    Composites cannot be repaired, apparently a simpler method has been implemented, by replacing the whole unit.
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas April 20 2013 22: 05 New
    “I’m sure that even the new US AN-64A Apache combat helicopters and its modifications AH-64D and AH-64D Longbow could hardly surpass Mi-24 in those conditions. After all, they are not designed and are not able to detect the battlefield is a separate firing point - camouflaged infantry with small arms or MANPADS. " - online a bunch of videos where Apache drives the bearded mountains, using the entire set of weapons.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 April 20 2013 23: 41 New
      Bearded people have long had neither MANPADS, nor advisers, but the equipment of helicopters over the past years has been pulled, by the way, to an article of 15 years. That is, now any helicopter with equipment for working at night may not be particularly afraid of bearded men.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas April 21 2013 07: 45 New
        I did not look at the date of entry of the article. But in 1998. the data on the Apache sighting system were already well known, in addition, it had already been tested by Iraq.
        PS: once the "Soldier of Fortune" was a very interesting magazine, until it rolled down to the level of "Soviet Warrior" ...
        1. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 50 New
          And how did he get around in Iraq? Above a flat terrain with completely suppressed air defense? Add to this the complete domination of NATO aviation in the air, and an ambush in the desert is somewhat more difficult to arrange than in the mountains, so this is crap, not military use ... And so on. not running in ... hi
  • stranik72
    stranik72 April 21 2013 12: 06 New
    Quote: Burel
    Here are just a world record of 368,4 km / h was set on the most lightweight Mi-24, with wings removed, weapons and armor

    As for the wings and the armor, you should not, the wings are designed to increase the maximum flight speed, the armor is an integral part of the power structure, it is not possible to remove it all, and yes they did.
    There is a photo on the net where there really are no wings, but it was a flight to establish the maximum flight height, speed was not important there, but weight played a role.
    1. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 21 2013 22: 56 New
      A little bit wrong))) The removable wings are designed to create additional lifting force as in the Mi-6/26 ...
  • lilit.193
    lilit.193 April 21 2013 12: 32 New
    "Black Shark" forever !!!
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 April 21 2013 17: 31 New
    I read this article in the original. Interesting, informative. Then, in general, the imagination was struck by the capabilities of the Ka-50. Now you are looking at this material more critically ...
    But this does not detract from the merits of KB them. Kamov, who created a truly remarkable and (I’m not afraid of the word) revolutionary machine ...

    "Black Shark"
    1. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 21 2013 23: 01 New
      Chic, I welcome you, tremendous +, the car is really revolutionary and ahead of the time when it was created !!!!!!!! In general, I am an admirer of the talent of Kamov and his design bureau, he created amazing machines ... But I fell in love with Shark at first sight - perfection itself ... repeat I don’t remember who said - a perfect weapon cannot be ugly .... hi
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 April 21 2013 23: 15 New
        Good day to you, Boris! hi And the Ka-50 is really a beautiful car (a successful predator is always beautiful!). This cannot be taken away from her ...
        1. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 23 2013 09: 32 New
          Greetings Vasily !!! But what impresses me the most about it is the ability to perform almost all aerobatics on it - barrels, loops, military U-turns ... Dad told WHAT instructors in the Kamov center do on them ... I was just in shock, helicopters with such features, probably not anywhere else ...
          PS And here is another interesting machine created in the Kamov Design Bureau - Ka-22 ...
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 23 2013 09: 35 New
            An interesting machine in every sense ... But what struck me most was the date the work started on it - 1951
            Damn, what kind of garbage - the photo is not inserted (((((
  • Nicotine 7
    Nicotine 7 April 21 2013 20: 22 New
    I must say that I’m not a pilot, but he served in AA and had a direct relationship with the pilots. They have a “blue dream,” to transfer to a Kamov machine. But! Fly on what is ... But there’s everything Mi-8, Mi-24 ... and high-profile statements to rearrange all the VS. Let's see.
    1. stranik72
      stranik72 April 21 2013 20: 30 New
      They have it, a blue dream, transfer to a Kamov car.
      I think that you did not serve in AA and had a very distant relationship with helicopter pilots because, unlike you, they know all the weaknesses of the spacecraft and they don’t have such a dream.
      1. Nicotine 7
        Nicotine 7 April 21 2013 21: 48 New
        He served in AA, a communications company and a mouth for 5 years. Tajikistan 93, Chechnya 95. I have government awards (not jubilee) From the judgments of my friends, pilots (and I trust them) to the Kamov machine, to the bulb, all climatic conditions, but for in the traditional scheme, even a crosswind is already serious, not to mention flying in the mountains, where the descending and ascending currents are waiting for you at every step, not to mention the “bearded man”.
      2. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 April 21 2013 21: 53 New
        Quote: stranik72
        they know all the weaknesses of the spacecraft and they don’t have such a dream.

        AA pilots (as professionals) are simply obliged to know the weaknesses of the machines on which they operate. And this is not surprising. But to assert that these pilots do not dream to change to Ka-52 is as reckless as to assert that all pilots want to leave Milev machines at all costs ...
        And this choice is influenced by many factors, both objective and subjective ...
        And to judge the correctness or mistake of the concept laid down in the "Black Shark", and later in the "Alligator" can only time, but not idle reasoning of well-known amateurs ...

        And still add another art with the Ka-50 ... smile
  • Nicotine 7
    Nicotine 7 April 21 2013 23: 18 New
    In January 1995, we lost 24-ku (heavy fog, collision with a mountain). In a collision, the operator flew 10 meters away from the car. There would be modern equipment, this could have been avoided.
  • Dmitriy292
    Dmitriy292 April 22 2013 05: 00 New
    It seems to be so bad, but no, we have to do worse. The authorities do not cease to amaze. This site just recently came across:, where information about each of us has been publicly posted. I don’t know why to do this, but it personally scares me. Nevertheless, I somehow managed to delete my data, though I had to register, but no one could "dig up" anything on me.
  • screw cutter
    screw cutter April 22 2013 15: 02 New
    There is such a Discovery broadcast that you cannot convict of propaganda of Russian aviation equipment, but the broadcast was not about that. The broadcast was devoted to the construction of a cableway from Hong Kong, so the towers were built using Kamov’s helicopters, the main argument is “accuracy of hovering”. A coaxial helicopter (in calm weather) can hang over a point almost forever if the fuel hose is fed to the top there.
  • gauche
    gauche April 23 2013 12: 10 New
    Quote: UFO
    Honestly, the fact that the Ka-50 did not go into the series, I consider it to be sabotage. We reformed the Armed Forces, created brigades of constant combat readiness, why not subordinate the 1st KA-52 (for target designation and control) and 3-5 Ka-50 (a kind of "death squad") to the brigade of the Specialized Rifle Brigade or Special Operations Brigade.

    Quote: UFO
    Most likely he wasn’t just “pushed” - someone really wanted, there is nothing like that in “one helmet” of potential “friends”, there is NOTHING to contrast THERE with similar characteristics !!! The snake warmed itself somewhere on his chest.

    There are a bunch of mummers of bandarlogs ... And such an idea - "KA-52 (for target designation and control) and 3-5 Ka-50" - was ... At AAK "Progress" in Arsenyev there are still fuselages of unfinished Ka-50 , then only the Ka-52 was launched into the series. For a long time, I remember, the factory workers were fed up with Moss, like, just about to conclude a profitable contract - either with Turkey, then with India. But that didn’t work ... Right now, though slowly, the production at Progress is coming to life - the Ka-52 is slowly being sent to the AA combat unit in Chernihiv. The situation with the Mistral air wing is not clear - it seems like it was planned to keep 8 pieces there. Ka-52 on each. They will drive partisans ...
  • pilot_mi_24
    pilot_mi_24 15 August 2013 19: 06 New
    ... To protect against MANPADS of the "Arrow" and "Stinger" types, the Mi-24 installed a firing system for firing thermal targets and an infrared generator "Ispanka .....

    Clarification - for protection against MANPADS of the Strela and Stinger type, the ASO-2v automatic trap shooting system is used, although the shooting is carried out by the pilot-operator from the front cockpit, because it is only possible to detect the launch of the Arrows or Stinger, passive guidance systems are installed - homing heat heads, they don’t emit, but they themselves catch thermal radiation, because ASOs were shot when a launch was detected, or when passing through dangerous sections of the route as they say "just in case"
    The Mi-24 IR generator is not called "Spaniard", but "Lipa", it is designed to interfere with and halt the guidance of Red Ay missiles having just an IR homing head, only RedAy mine has been ... weapons, I don’t know for sure, I won’t lie, we were explained this question to the school in college, I don’t even know where in the cockpit of the gas station or the Lipa switch. It’s very easy to see Lipa on any Mi-24 photo, such a turret behind the hoods of the hydraulic system and the AI-9v APU, at the very beginning of the tail boom at the very top.

    Next, the caption under the photo (quote) ... Blocks of rocket guns B8V20 S NAR 60 mm caliber ....
    The caliber NAR C8 used in the B8V20 block is 87mm, the caliber 60mm, or rather 57mm, was on the NAR C5 in the UB32 and UB16 blocks
  • pilot_mi_24
    pilot_mi_24 15 August 2013 23: 16 New
    5  Saburov  April 21, 2013 00:37 ↑

      Now about sore, about avionics. To say that the Mi-24 is not just obsolete avionics, to say nothing. What is only one ballistic computer weighing 300 kg!

    Oh well :-) what is a ballistic computer? There is no such unit on the Mi-24, and even with such a weight. Amendments for firing all types of unguided weapons are considered sights, the commander in the rear cockpit of the ASP-17V, the operator in the front cockpit for firing from the Yakb-12,7 machine gun has a KPS-53 collimator sighting station, she considers the pre-empting of the machine gun barrel, a sensor for both is a DUAS - a sensor of angles of attack and slip, this is such a rod, the office in front of the helicopter sticks out with two petals. Control ATGM Sturm-V using the guidance device, installed on the right of the flight below the operator’s cab, the so-called. "beard", a missile control antenna is installed in the droplet of a visible fairing on the left side of the flight. Here are all the units that control the firing, and their total weight is 70-90 kilograms.