Military Review

The new look of the Turkish army at the beginning of the XXI century

126
The Turkish army throughout the existence of the Republic of Turkey had significant privileges and was an integral part of the country's political system. Most Russian and foreign researchers agree that the army has always played the role of a guarantor of the preservation of the Kemalist line in the domestic and foreign policy of the country and the protection of the secular foundations of the state.


At the beginning of the XXI century, Turkey embarked on the path of a radical review of the political regime in the country, some foreign policy priorities, the restructuring of the system of domestic political relations. The process of gradual removal of the army from politics began, the army began to lose its privileges and its independence, increasingly transforming itself into an effective tool for the foreign policy of the ruling party. It is noteworthy that against the background of the ongoing changes, the government began to consider strengthening Turkey’s authority in the international arena in the context of modernization and increasing the combat capability of the army. For this, Turkey uses not only its own resources, but also accepts assistance from its allies. So, for example, the deployment of the American Patriot anti-aircraft missile system contributed to a significant strengthening of the air defense system and at the same time strengthening Turkey’s position in the Middle East. In this regard, the question of the development prospects of the Turkish army and its role in the life of Turkish society is on the agenda.



Transformation of the political role of the army

Establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923 by Marshal M.K. Ataturk began with the coming to power of the military. For decades, the country's armed forces not only ensured the security of Turkey, but also remained the guarantor of secular principles in the conduct of the country's foreign and domestic policy. Before the Justice and Development Party (AKP) came to power, no political party that has an Islamic orientation and helps strengthen political Islam in the country could not count on a long stay in power. At the first signs of a violation of the secular foundations of the state, the army directly or indirectly contributed to the removal of this party from power or its complete closure. In 2002, the AKP managed to win the parliamentary elections thanks to its well-thought-out economic program. At the same time, the AKP was positioned not as pro-Islamic, but as a conservative-democratic party, comparing itself with European Christian-Democratic unions. Thanks to a successful economic policy and the absence at that time of a clear pro-Islamic line, the AKP easily managed to win the parliamentary elections of 2007.

Until 2008, that is, the time when active legal proceedings began against representatives of both opposition forces and the military elite, the army was a privileged regulator of the internal political process in the country. That all changed with the beginning of the Ergenekon (“Prodrodina”) case, when a series of arrests of former and current military, intellectuals, journalists — those who were allegedly involved in the conspiracy against the government — swept across the country.

So far, the trial of the Ergenekon case has not come to an end, but a similar trial in the Baloz (Molot) case ended in favor of the ruling party. Currently, an investigation into the February 28 case is underway, and there is good reason to believe that it will also end not in favor of the defendants.

The trials of members of the armed forces for preparing a military coup against the ruling party led to the complete dismissal of the army from politics and strengthened the position of the AKP. Given the weakness of the opposition movement, the army remained the only serious political actor who, although not explicitly, but quite effectively, regulated Turkey’s internal political course.

Against the background of the ongoing changes, the government began to consider strengthening Turkey’s prestige in the international arena in the context of modernizing and improving the army’s combat capability. For this, Turkey uses not only its own resources, but also accepts assistance from its allies.

The AKP managed to eliminate its main rival due to a cautious approach to this issue. Without advertising their true intentions, the party since 2007 has pursued a policy of amending the country's constitution. The amendments, which were approved as a result of the popular referendum in 2010, significantly limited the participation of the army in the political process. In particular, the role of the military tribunals was reduced and the participants in the 1980 coup were deprived of immunity from prosecution. The next step on the path of legislative removal from the policy of military structures could be to change the 35 article of the Internal Regulations of the Turkish armed forces, which defines the main goal of the armed forces of the country as "the preservation and protection of the Republic of Turkey." About this in early October 2012, said Deputy Prime Minister Bekir Bozdag. In fact, on the basis of this particular article, the revolutions of 1960, 1971 and 1980 were accomplished.

The adoption of a new “Political Document on the National Security of the Country” or the “Red Book” in 2010 was a serious victory for the AKP in the legal arena. This document, which is also called the “secret constitution,” contains the state’s national security strategy, identifies the main challenges and threats to the country. If in the 2005 year, the country's armed forces were actually engaged in the preparation of this document and it was their position that was spelled out in it, in the 2010 year this duty was assigned to civilians, and in particular, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu. Therefore, it is not surprising that the creation of a security belt around Turkey was called one of the main priorities of the state.

In addition to legislative and judicial initiatives, the Justice and Development Party seeks to change the training system for young soldiers and officers in order to completely eliminate the threat of coups. In military schools, training is conducted on the basis of Kemalist principles, which imply the preservation of the secular nature of the state. In October 2012, the Minister of Education, Omer Dincher, expressed support for the idea of ​​democratizing military schools and introducing the fundamentals of Islam into the training program for young military. Such activities of the AKP are aimed at completely removing the military from politics and unhindered implementation of the new ideology of Turkey, namely, moderate Islam.

Thus, it is obvious that the Turkish government is implementing an integrated approach to solving the problem of military intervention in the political sphere. Already, the army is difficult to regain lost public confidence and restore its credibility, so the possibility of returning the military to politics through a coup d'état seems extremely unlikely.



Turkish army in international context

Against the background of the ongoing process of removing the army from politics in the international arena, the authority of the Turkish armed forces is increasing. Turkey is increasingly beginning to participate in peacekeeping operations under the aegis of NATO and the UN, to demonstrate its military capabilities and political ambitions. Turkey was involved in UN peacekeeping operations in Liberia, Côte d'Ivoire, Haiti; NATO military operations in Afghanistan, Kosovo. Currently, Turkey is one of the 15 countries that provide the most significant police forces to participate in peacekeeping and stability operations.

With the advent of the “Arab Spring” in the Middle East and North Africa, Turkey received a real opportunity to take the position of a regional leader. Such large and influential regional powers as Egypt and Libya were destabilized and became an arena for the confrontation of internal and external political forces. Iran has been and is still under siege. On the one hand, besides Syria, he no longer has allies in the region, and on the other hand, economic sanctions limit his ability to pursue an active foreign policy course. Under these conditions, Turkey, having expressed support for opposition forces in Arab countries, quickly became a regional “hero”. However, the Turkish leadership understood that in the event of an armed conflict in the region with the participation of foreign forces, all the laurels from victory would be won by the winners, Turkey itself would not get anything - and moreover, it would no longer influence the regional situation.

Therefore, Ankara changed its foreign policy course and staked on demonstrating its military potential to the whole world, in effect declaring the key role of its armed forces in the process of shaping new realities in the region. The NATO military base in Izmir became the command center for the conduct of the Libyan NATO operation and a base from which combat aircraft departed to conduct bombing.

At the moment, all attention is riveted on Syria. Statements by Western politicians about the presence in this country of chemical weapons make a real threat of foreign intervention. The situation is aggravated by the increasing instability on the Turkish-Syrian border, which arose after one of the Syrian shells fell on the territory of Turkey, causing the death of several people. Turkey responded by immediately mobilizing various types of troops on the border with Syria, bombing Damascus and adjacent territories.

It is worth noting that even before this incident, there were shootouts on the Turkish-Syrian border, which could have been initiated by the Syrian Kurds. During the conflict in a neighboring country, Turkey has repeatedly called upon the international community to create in the north of Syria a so-called “buffer zone of security” in which military operations will not be conducted, but Syrian refugees will be accommodated, which Turkey is forced to accept on its territory. Therefore, the fall of the Syrian projectile gave the ruling party a convenient excuse for escalating the conflict between Turkey and Syria. But here is not so simple.

Currently, Turkey uses cooperation within the framework of NATO to realize its own interests. That is, both Turkey and the United States are interested in overthrowing Bashar Assad, they will act together. At the same time, neither Turkey, nor the United States, nor the NATO forces are profitable to launch full-scale military actions against the Syrian government or to conduct a military operation following the example of the Libyan one, which provoked the sharpest criticism of the alliance. Another thing is maintaining the situation of uncertainty on the border, taking advantage of which, Turkey can fully demonstrate its military power and attract the attention of NATO. For NATO, this is beneficial because at present the United States does not have sufficient capabilities and a desire to conduct military operations in Syria, interfering in the internal political Syrian conflict. Turkey’s presence in the region and its participation in the Syrian conflict can help NATO solve this problem by someone else. In February, 2012, the Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, announced that NATO was pursuing a policy of establishing peace and security in the Middle East and that Turkey would support this initiative with all its might. That is, in the Middle East, Turkey acts as an ally and a spokesman for the interests of NATO, which corresponds to its own goals.

At the moment, the beginning of the military invasion of Syria has been postponed thanks to the efforts of Russia and China. Russia, like Turkey, is seeking to strengthen its position in the region, but not with the help of military force, but exclusively with diplomatic resources. Moscow reacted negatively to Turkey’s decision to deploy the Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems on the border with Syria, which NATO plans to deploy in 2013. Russia has repeatedly called on Turkey to start a direct dialogue with Damascus, but Turkey refused to restore relations with the administration of Bashar al-Assad, while openly announcing support for the Syrian opposition. The visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Turkey at the beginning of December 2012 was supposed to help develop a common vision by the leaders of the two countries on the Syrian problem. However, the parties have not been able to develop a unified approach to achieving the main goal - to stabilize the situation in Syria. On the Syrian issue, both Turkey and Russia have taken positions of principle, therefore, if this status quo is maintained, our countries will not be able to reach consensus on this issue.

In this case, the Turkish army acts solely as a tool for a new foreign policy of the country, which is not officially proclaimed, but is actively being implemented in practice. Turkey is increasingly moving away from its image of a peaceful power, relying on military force and power in the image of its closest ally, the United States.



Modernization of the Turkish army

The Syrian scenario may turn out for Turkey to test the loyalty of NATO and the United States. Turkey has a chance to prove that cooperation with NATO is an absolute priority for it, including over its own foreign policy installations, and also to demonstrate its military potential. And for this you need an efficient and modernized army.

As of 2012, the Turkish armed forces numbered about 700 thousands of people — the country's army is second in number in NATO after the USA and sixth in the world. However, the problem of the Turkish army is the lack of a sufficient number of modernized weapons.

Currently, a significant part of the weapons at the disposal of the Turkish army was purchased in the United States and Israel, with some types of weapons from Turkey have to be fully imported. However, Ankara is not interested in the re-equipment and modernization of its army through the purchase of foreign equipment. The first priority for Turkey is the development of its own military-industrial complex. At the beginning of 2012, the Department of Defense Industry of the Ministry of Defense of Turkey presented a plan for the development of the military-industrial complex to 2016. According to this plan, by 2016, Turkey intends to enter the top ten countries with the largest national defense industry.

Already, Turkey is actively developing its own ANKA UAV, which is scheduled to start mass production in 2013. In November, 2012 signed an agreement to supply 10 with these UAVs from Turkey to Egypt. Also in 2013, the mass production of the Turkish T-129 attack helicopter will begin.

In December, the Turkish satellite Göktürk-2012 was launched in December 2, transmitting images from around the world to the command center, and at the end of October 2012 at the arms exhibition in Washington, Turkey presented its new rocket, Djirit. A distinctive feature of this rocket is the equipment of a laser homing head, which has almost no analogues in the world.

15 November 2012, the company Otokar, belonging to the holding Koch, presented the first battle tank, developed and assembled in Turkey. Thanks to the high-precision sight, this tank can even hit moving targets with great efficiency. In addition, the tank is equipped with special protection of the crew against chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

As part of the modernization program of the armed forces, the Turkish rifle “Mekhmetchik-2” is being developed. In July, 2012 became aware that Turkey began developing a program for the production of ballistic missiles capable of hitting the target at a distance of up to 2500 km. Projects to create their own combat corvettes, submarines, an aircraft carrier and a fighter are actively developing in Turkey.

Yet, NATO continues to play an important role in the modernization process of the Turkish army. US fighter-bombers F-16, which form the basis of the strike power of the Turkish Air Force, were involved in the bombing of Syria in October 2012 and the territory of Northern Iraq. Helicopters assembled in the United States by Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation constantly provide air cover during combat operations against the Kurds in the east of the country. The issue of deploying the NATO Patriot anti-aircraft missile systems on the Turkish-Syrian border was positively resolved.

It is obvious that Turkey seeks to modernize its armed forces through the development of its own military-industrial complex. Many projects in the field of weapons development, which Turkey effectively implements at one time, are a good indicator of the prospects for the national military-industrial complex, which in a few decades will be able to compete with the West for certain types of weapons. And yet, for the time being, Turkey is forced to purchase foreign weapons and military equipment, first of all, it concerns artillery, which make a tangible contribution to strengthening the country's armed forces.

In conclusion, it can be said that the transformation process of the domestic political and foreign political role of the Turkish army is in full swing. After some time, the army will be completely deprived of the opportunity to participate in the internal political process. On the other hand, the importance of the Turkish armed forces for international peacekeeping and combat operations, including those outside the region, will increase. Along with this, there will be an active modernization of the Turkish armed forces, both with the help of developing our own military-industrial complex and with the assistance of NATO.

The greatest fear for the countries of the Middle East and Russia is caused by the growing foreign policy ambitions of the ruling party. Davutoglu’s constructive and innovative foreign policy course (“zero problems with neighbors”) has undergone a significant transformation since the beginning of the Arab Spring and has turned from a constructive into an aggressive one. A key change has taken place in Turkey’s foreign policy - from a country that is only claiming regional leadership, Turkey has become a leading regional power. Foreign Minister Davutoglu has repeatedly stated that Turkey will “continue to lead the transformations in the Middle East” in the future and will remain “the owner of the new Middle East.” Now Turkey needs to consolidate this position in the region and, in particular, make it legitimate. Therefore, cooperation with NATO on the Syrian issue is so important for Turkey. In the event of a military invasion of Syria, the Turkish army will play a decisive role in the operation, and Turkey will become the "legitimate" mistress of Syria and the Middle East.

As for relations with Russia, despite the absence of a common position on the Syrian issue, they are steadily developing and strengthening. Still, Turkey’s further orientation towards NATO and its pursuit of a policy that destabilizes the region rather than brings peace can significantly complicate Turkish-Russian relations. Therefore, it is so important for Russia to involve Turkey in the dialogue and to hinder the forceful resolution of the Syrian problem.
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126 comments
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  1. gas
    gas April 22 2013 08: 35
    +3
    I don’t understand why Russia is not conducting a foreign policy game like Turkey? We are only losing our allies, and long-standing rivals such as Turkey are growing stronger thanks to our inaction. Why don't we strengthen Turkey's rivals as a counterweight?
    1. itr
      itr April 22 2013 10: 37
      +1
      Turkey intensified thanks to Ukraine.
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg April 22 2013 12: 04
        +1
        Quote: itr
        Turkey intensified thanks to Ukraine.


        laughing now let Ukraine have a headache for Turkey now ...
      2. kosmos44
        kosmos44 April 22 2013 18: 20
        0
        Quote: itr
        Turkey intensified thanks to Ukraine.


        Yeah! Especially their special forces in Syria showed themselves. Great there they kicked their ass.
        1. Our
          Our 31 December 2013 18: 49
          +1
          are there any sources?
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 22 2013 08: 37
    +7
    Oh, we won’t strengthen the Black Sea Fleet and our positions in the Middle East, we will have big problems with Turkey ...
    1. UFO
      UFO April 22 2013 09: 01
      +3
      It is unlikely. There is no reason for the Turks to spoil relations with Russia, although they are "Turks", they are not fools - the financial ties to energy and tourism are too big. But the navies of other Black Sea countries, such as Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, the Turks can disperse along the "coastal reeds", or "clog" the sea for them. Turkey is now actively playing the card of the bridge between Asia and Europe, various pipelines and gas pipelines, so that it does not need "big problems" with Russia. hi
      1. Seraph
        Seraph April 23 2013 12: 06
        +2
        Oh, if only so! Napoleon had no reason to go to Moscow, Hitler and Germany also made the main mistake, leaning against us. If everything in world politics was done on the basis of national interests! Translating into Russian: if there were no Anglo-Saxons!
        The Turks will be driven to slaughter in the same way as they did throughout the XVII and XVIII centuries. Another question: what will come of it?
  3. LaGlobal
    LaGlobal April 22 2013 08: 41
    0
    Without NATO money at the head of the asth, Turkey achieved nothing. Show me at least one Turkish weapon, except weapons from the XIIV - XIX century! NATO aircraft, tanks and rifles are also theirs. Equipment is the same crap.
    1. OTAKE
      OTAKE April 22 2013 09: 17
      +3
      Quote: LaGlobal
      Without NATO money at the head of the asth, Turkey achieved nothing. Show me at least one Turkish weapon, except weapons from the XIIV - XIX century! NATO aircraft, tanks and rifles are also theirs. Equipment is the same crap.

      With the same success, we can say that without a Soviet backlog Russia did not achieve anything, Soviet planes, tanks and rifles - from there. The equipment is from Yudashkin, this is a great achievement, very good, and also rye, vegetables .. that's all
      1. Flooding
        Flooding April 22 2013 10: 17
        +1
        Quote: OTAKE
        With the same success, we can say that without a Soviet backlog Russia did not achieve anything, Soviet planes, tanks and rifles - from there.

        But still his own, dear. Although a shame for lost decades.
        1. OTAKE
          OTAKE April 22 2013 10: 29
          0
          Quote: Flood
          Quote: OTAKE
          With the same success, we can say that without a Soviet backlog Russia did not achieve anything, Soviet planes, tanks and rifles - from there.

          But still his own, dear. Although a shame for lost decades.

          A weapon cannot be native, a weapon must be, and it must shoot, kill, detonate, destroy. Moreover, the Turks produce many weapons under license, and they own many technologies in the military-industrial complex, that is, they do not stupidly squander money, but are actively developing industry.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding April 22 2013 10: 58
            +2
            Quote: OTAKE
            A weapon cannot be native, a weapon must be, and it must shoot, kill, detonate, destroy

            Does it make sense to argue? Ask the tanker, missile, sailor, developer in the end ...
            And the meaning of what I wrote seems to you to be understood. Then why verbiage?
            1. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 27
              0
              Quote: Flood
              Quote: OTAKE
              A weapon cannot be native, a weapon must be, and it must shoot, kill, detonate, destroy

              Does it make sense to argue? Ask the tanker, missile, sailor, developer in the end ...
              And the meaning of what I wrote seems to you to be understood. Then why verbiage?

              Where is verbiage? if the country's industry cannot at this stage give a tanker, a sailor, a soldier a good weapon, but has the opportunity to buy it in order to save his life in case of war, then what's wrong with that?
              1. Flooding
                Flooding April 22 2013 11: 39
                +1
                OTAKE, spell - you will understand.
                Quote: OTAKE
                Weapons cannot be native
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 41
                  -1
                  Quote: Flood
                  OTAKE, spell - you will understand.
                  Quote: OTAKE
                  Weapons cannot be native

                  And it’s possible once again, I’m having a good time panning around the rye, but in essence, I turned to you figuratively .. and you all literally understand
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding April 22 2013 12: 04
                    +1
                    Quote: OTAKE
                    but essentially, I turned to you figuratively .. and you all literally understand

                    I rather put it figuratively. You decided to hit the literary school.
                    1. OTAKE
                      OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 11
                      -1
                      Quote: Flood
                      Quote: OTAKE
                      but essentially, I turned to you figuratively .. and you all literally understand

                      I rather put it figuratively. You decided to hit the literary school.

                      I’ll try to explain to you as an example, for example, there is Lada Kalina, she’s a dear, beautiful, triumph of the thought of the domestic automotive school, it was collected, powerful, by the hands of our compatriots who radiantly put day and night into it, yes, that same mysterious Russian soul, it is assembled from our relatives! home parts so to speak, it’s nothing to you there, bourgeois consumer goods, and right next to the dear and magnificent Lada, some kind of German BMW or Merin, or even worse, they put some kind of Toyota Yaposhkinsky! What do you prefer to ride? The situation with weapons is absolutely the same; if you can’t offer better, buy abroad.
                      1. aviamed90
                        aviamed90 April 22 2013 12: 46
                        +2

                        "The situation with weapons is absolutely the same, you can't offer better - buy it abroad."

                        And spare parts, ammunition, those personnel and service are also there to buy ???
                      2. OTAKE
                        OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 49
                        -2
                        Quote: aviamed90
                        And spare parts, ammunition and maintenance ???

                        What's the problem? what prevents to buy a license and production technology and produce components and peripherals at their plants?
                      3. viktorR
                        viktorR April 23 2013 18: 25
                        +1
                        You are sorry, but you are either a fool or an enemy, rather the second, but the first a little, as you are trying to lead us on the chaff. If we don’t have an Opel sold, do you think they will sell something related to weapons?
                      4. OTAKE
                        OTAKE April 25 2013 09: 18
                        0
                        Quote: viktorR
                        You are sorry, but you are either a fool or an enemy, rather the second, but the first a little, as you are trying to lead us on the chaff. If we don’t have an Opel sold, do you think they will sell something related to weapons?

                        Our potential enemies are also buying Russian weapons, and then what? I hope you heard about Iveco "Lynx"? Or are there enemies and fools all around again?
                2. Flooding
                  Flooding April 22 2013 12: 57
                  0
                  Quote: OTAKE
                  The situation with weapons is absolutely the same; if you can’t offer better, buy abroad.

                  Are you mowing a fool or really can’t understand?
                  Despite all the problems I wrote in Russia, my own weapon.
                  You - the weapon cannot be native and bring the situation to BMW as confirmation. Are you sane?
                3. Setrac
                  Setrac April 22 2013 21: 17
                  +1
                  Quote: Flood
                  Are you mowing a fool or really can’t understand?

                  There is a third option, OTAKE does not mow.
                4. OTAKE
                  OTAKE April 25 2013 09: 22
                  -1
                  Quote: Flood
                  Quote: OTAKE
                  The situation with weapons is absolutely the same; if you can’t offer better, buy abroad.

                  Are you mowing a fool or really can’t understand?
                  Despite all the problems I wrote in Russia, my own weapon.
                  You - the weapon cannot be native and bring the situation to BMW as confirmation. Are you sane?

                  I am being killed by your conceptual apparatus, I subtly hint to you that it is better to equip a soldier with good, albeit not domestic, weapons, to develop the military-industrial complex on the basis of these weapons, to cooperate and learn from other people's experience, than to release old, albeit domestic, junk. Your argument sounded like "Yes, someone else's is better, but it's our own!" I explained to you that "native" in this case is not - an argument. Ferstein?
              2. Setrac
                Setrac April 22 2013 21: 16
                +1
                Quote: OTAKE
                and now next to the native and magnificent Lada, some kind of German BMW or Merin, or even worse, some kind of Yaposhkinskaya Toyota put!

                Here it is your verbiage, get your hand out of the verbiage. We compared viburnum with BMW and Mercedes, let's compare the price, here viburnum will give a huge head start and gelding and boomer. Viburnum is a means of transportation, which is not a luxury, but a gelding and boomer is not a means of transportation, but a luxury.
              3. OTAKE
                OTAKE April 25 2013 09: 27
                -1
                Quote: Setrac
                Quote: OTAKE
                and now next to the native and magnificent Lada, some kind of German BMW or Merin, or even worse, some kind of Yaposhkinskaya Toyota put!

                Here it is your verbiage, get your hand out of the verbiage. We compared viburnum with BMW and Mercedes, let's compare the price, here viburnum will give a huge head start and gelding and boomer. Viburnum is a means of transportation, which is not a luxury, but a gelding and boomer is not a means of transportation, but a luxury.

                Well, yes, if Lada would give a head start in price, for example, to Japanese supported cars, I think with an increase in import duties on foreign cars, residents of the Far East would not take to the streets with the flags of Japan and banners "I love Japan."
                Z. For interest, I went to the VAZ website, Lada Kalina Sport - 421 thousand rubles. Probably they’re buying them right here, alone, I dare to Compare Our level of automotive industry (the Russian Federation has a funky indicator of the state of the industry as a whole - AUTOTAZ. Fart puffs and we see everything at the exit) with luxurious BMWs or Mercedes.
            2. viktorR
              viktorR April 23 2013 18: 33
              0
              Simple answer, our machines are chosen by many, for many reasons, one of them is price / quality / ease of maintenance. But the problem is not in this, but in the fact that, firstly, our car industry did not have its entire history of competitors (unlike our weapons, which competed both in the world and within the country), and secondly, the standard of living in those countries where they produce "BMW or Gelding, or even worse, some kind of Yaposhkinskaya Toyota" the standard of living is higher, respectively, people can afford more expensive cars. They have this level, of course, at the expense of you and me and the rest of the world, but that's another story.
            3. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 25 2013 09: 35
              -1
              Quote: viktorR
              Of course, they have this level at the expense of you and the rest of the world, but that's another story.

              How do you contribute to the standard of living of, for example, the same Japanese or Israelis? Or thanks to you, the Japanese have Russian TVs in their homes? Maybe the whole thing is the other way around?
            4. Setrac
              Setrac April 25 2013 22: 11
              0
              Quote: OTAKE
              How do you contribute to the standard of living of, for example, the same Japanese or Israelis? Or thanks to you, the Japanese have Russian TVs in their homes? Maybe the whole thing is the other way around?

              Is there such a method - indirect taxation - what is the approximate bank interest in Russia? Or such a question - international trade for dollars - who is the winner? About how the West (the golden billion) by military force captures sales markets, or does it also knock out trade rights? Hundreds of children in third countries are starving so that the Israeli ate hearty, so that he chokes, so that he gets a bone across his throat.
            5. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 26 2013 06: 42
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              Is there such a method - indirect taxation - what is the approximate bank interest in Russia? Or such a question - international trade for dollars - who is the winner? About how the West (the golden billion) by military force captures sales markets, or does it also knock out trade rights? Hundreds of children in third countries are starving so that the Israeli ate hearty, so that he chokes, so that he gets a bone across his throat.

              Excuse me for the stupid question, but have you seen this golden billion? Or did they tell you about him on TV? Or did he personally put the Rothschilds Volodya Putin and Dimka Medvedev at the head of state? Or maybe the people have chosen all the same? Or not? An interesting thing, about a week ago, I went into a supermarket near my house to buy vegetables, and I was almost stunned when I saw a pack of radishes with a label "Made in Israel", did mean masons stole a recipe for growing radishes from us and 8 millionth Israel feeds 140 millionth Russia? To what have sunk.
              Guys from the Kremlin for decades could not get AvtoVAZ to learn how to build a regular car. On which at least someone would want to sit. Then, for years, she ran out of the bowels of her botox brain, how to make ZhPS - and all the same, they drank and plundered unmeasured money, they sit with the Ketai calculator instead of ZhPS.
              And right now, they will threaten America with a rotten reproductive organ. All my life they kept on horror stories about the war, if only there wouldn’t be, if only there wouldn’t be ... The people were kept in a state of hysteria from the very beginning of their coming to power.
              At the speed with which the oligophrenics, with the support of the Kremlin guys, are oiling from Russian wells, Russia will be the first one to run out of it. I would rather.
            6. Setrac
              Setrac April 26 2013 19: 32
              0
              Quote: OTAKE
              An interesting thing, about a week ago, I went into a supermarket near my house to buy vegetables, and I was almost stunned when I saw a pack of radishes with a label "Made in Israel", did mean masons stole a recipe for growing radishes from us and 8 millionth Israel feeds 140 millionth Russia?

              This is an example of how markets are captured. This 80 millionth Germany feeds 8 millionth Israel, with those reparations that are being torn from Germany in order to capture the market, you can give away radishes for free. Israel is such a tick on the body of the world economy, encyphalitic.
              Quote: OTAKE
              At the speed with which the oligophrenics, with the support of the Kremlin guys, are oiling from Russian wells, Russia will be the first one to run out of it. I would rather.

              Mentioned Action
              Quote: OTAKE
              make out

              you do, thus extracting anti-Russian slogans to please your masters from across the ocean.
            7. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 27 2013 05: 20
              -1
              This is an example of how markets are captured. This 80 millionth Germany feeds 8 millionth Israel, with those reparations that are being torn from Germany in order to capture the market, you can give away radishes for free. Israel is such a tick on the body of the world economy, encyphalitic.

              I didn’t think that the capture of the market, for the sale of radishes is something that is part of the ZOG plans lol Thank you for clarifying the situation, and to be honest, they sell radishes here for the reason that their kibbutzi are equipped with the latest technology, because the cost of production is much cheaper than in Russia, the old-fashioned way to grow up. Well, despite the fact that Germany, that Russia does not disdain to buy from Israel high-tech equipment, such as UAVs.)
              you do, thus extracting anti-Russian slogans to please your masters from across the ocean.

              Sorry, I didn’t think that it was your level, to say stupid things for the sake of some people from overseas.
            8. Setrac
              Setrac April 27 2013 15: 39
              0
              Quote: OTAKE
              Well, despite the fact that Germany, that Russia does not disdain to buy from Israel high-tech equipment, such as UAVs.)

              UAVs with ICE cannot be considered a high-tech product. High technologies include abnormal energy, turbines, rocket engines, and electronics (non-domestic, household computers - consumer goods).
            9. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 27 2013 19: 41
              +1
              Quote: Setrac
              UAVs with ICE cannot be considered a high-tech product. High technologies include abnormal energy, turbines, rocket engines, and electronics (non-domestic, household computers - consumer goods).

              I’ll disappoint you, but Israel is one of the world leaders in the development of UAVs, and even Russia with its huge design school, the aircraft industry has not released a single unmanned aerial vehicle that could compete in performance characteristics even with old Israeli models, the fact that Germany buys UAV from Israel says a lot. There is nuclear energy in Israel, and not only Russia produces turbines and rocket engines with electronics, so do not tell tales.
              By the way, about non-consumer electronics in Russia, well, yes, where already there antediluvian Israel before such a miracle of engineering lol
            10. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 27 2013 19: 45
              0
              In fact, he is already like this:

              Good morning
            11. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 27 2013 21: 40
              -1
              Quote: Spade
              In fact, he is already like this:

              Good morning

              the price of the device with delivery to the military unit is 169796 rubles. There is an opinion that this is a little to * uya. Yes, and you won’t hit such a head on your head, a potential enemy, the case is plastic
              But the wooden box delivered!
              Good morning.
          2. Setrac
            Setrac April 27 2013 23: 00
            0
            Quote: OTAKE
            I will disappoint you, but Israel is one of the world leaders in the development of UAVs, and even Russia with its huge design school, the aircraft industry has not released a single unmanned aerial vehicle that could compete in performance characteristics even with old Israeli models, the fact that Germany buys UAV from Israel says a lot.

            I don’t know about Russia, I don’t know by the snout, but the USSR had UAVs that are a cut above all your developments, google the products of the Tupolev aircraft manufacturers. Your UAVs only drive Bedouins through the desert, and then they shoot down with arrows, you are proud of the UAVs, which in their performance characteristics are approximately like a corn plant, where did you see high technologies there? The "young technician" circle, albeit a rich circle, and your toys are expensive, but just toys.

            Quote: OTAKE
            There is nuclear energy in Israel, and not only Russia produces turbines and rocket engines with electronics, so don't tell tales.

            Well, tell us about the nuclear power plants built by Israel, fighter jets with Israeli engines, an Israeli launch vehicle? What is the degree of localization of Israeli products?
          3. OTAKE
            OTAKE April 28 2013 06: 26
            +1
            I don’t know how Russia, I don’t know by snout, but the USSR had UAVs that are a cut above all your developments, google the products of Tupolev aircraft manufacturers.

            And where is the super space Tupolev UAV now? Maybe they are so good that to this day they can compete with the Praydertory or Heron? Well done before, for centuries!
            Your UAVs only drive Bedouins in the desert, and then they shoot down with arrows, are you proud of the UAVs, which in their performance characteristics are almost like a maize, where did you see high technology there?

            And what are they supposed to shoot down space satellites? or meteorites approaching the atmosphere to crumble? lol I don’t know how it is in the USSR, but now UAVs seem to be doing for reconnaissance, target designations for fighters, and targeted air strikes, well, that’s like that is all. And about corn, are you serious, or sarcasm? And there are high technologies there, before which both the USSR and Russia still had to saw and saw, for example - electronics, aerial photography, and so on.
            The "young technician" circle, albeit a rich circle, and your toys are expensive, but just toys.

            Such a harsh circle) seems to me that schoolchildren from the Young Technician’s circle aren’t so much like to assemble, they won’t be able to lift it.

            Well, tell us about the nuclear plants built by Israel.

            Well, at least we will take into account the fact that since the beginning of the 60s the Nahal Sorek Nuclear Research Center and the Dimon Nuclear Research Center have been operating, and in what year was Israel founded? How much did the warrior survive during this time?
            jet warplanes, an Israeli booster? What is the degree of localization of Israeli products?

            Aircraft



            [/ Center]
            Here's a rocket for example, Shavit
          4. Setrac
            Setrac April 28 2013 15: 15
            0
            Who makes the engines for Shavit? Own development? License? Or just buy on the side? Unfortunately, I did not find an answer to this question in open sources.
            The second plane above is clearly F-16. I would not doubt the fact of AVAILABILITY of such a technique in Israel, the question is who produced, who developed, especially on the engines?
          5. OTAKE
            OTAKE April 28 2013 18: 17
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            Who makes the engines for Shavit? Own development? License? Or just buy on the side? Unfortunately, I did not find an answer to this question in open sources.
            The second plane above is clearly F-16. I would not doubt the fact of AVAILABILITY of such a technique in Israel, the question is who produced, who developed, especially on the engines?

            Well, Shavit seems to be at the base of Jericho, but for the Jericho they saw their missiles, as far as I know. A plane similar to F-16 is an IAI Lavi competitor, so to speak, F-16, moreover, at the level, amers screwed it up to sell more to Jews, and they sold those. Chinese aircraft documentation. And according to the engines, the Israelis have their own versions of engines from General Electic, of course from scratch it’s not so easy to cut the engine, but still, in the position in which Israel is right now it’s very, very good
      2. Professor
        Professor April 28 2013 15: 38
        -2
        Quote: Setrac
        Well, tell us about the nuclear power plants built by Israel, fighter jets with Israeli engines, an Israeli launch vehicle? What is the degree of localization of Israeli products?

        The station was the only one and the French helped build it, though it was a very long time ago and nobody knows what was rebuilt there. b Combat aircraft with jet engines, you can recall Kfir and Lavi. Shovels for Rolls-Royce and Prat & Whitney and G. And Israel is still doing. Near Jerusalem there is a plant for the production of reactive engines, which I do not know who. Launch vehicle of its own, although in the early 60s, the French helped.
  • viktorR
    viktorR April 23 2013 18: 21
    +1
    And who only puts pluses to you? Probably you squeeze yourself under different accounts. Are you out of your mind at all? How can you buy someone else's weapon? Let's start with the fact that approximately our level weapons are produced only by the countries of the bloc, which, in general, was created against us? But even here not everything is smooth. Different doctrines -> different strategies -> different tactics. I am not talking about bookmarks in electronics, maybe they sell weapons to someone and without bookmarks, they will definitely pawn us! Next ... Mobreserv? Repair of someone else's equipment? SPTA? And when we start buying someone else's weapons, our military-industrial complex will come up without orders and we will completely depend on those countries from which we buy something there. This is not the first time I see how you are here advocating for the purchase of someone else's weapons, you seem to be the Cossacks sent ...
    1. OTAKE
      OTAKE April 25 2013 09: 33
      +1
      Let's start with the fact that approximately our level weapons are produced only by the countries of the bloc, which, in general, was created against us? But even here not everything is smooth. Different doctrines -> different strategies -> different tactics.

      do not take everything literally, I do not urge to buy everything in a row and ruin your production, but to buy individual samples.
      I am silent about bookmarks in electronics, maybe someone is selling weapons and without bookmarks, they will definitely lay us!

      Nobody bothers you to establish the production of their electronics. Skolkovo, Elbrus-M, where are you? In the end, electronics can be purchased from the same Indians. Israel itself will receive the F-35 without avionics and electronic filling, and will be equipped exclusively with its electronics. So what prevents to do the same?
      This is not the first time I have seen you advocating the purchase of someone else’s weapons, you seem to have been sent to by Cossacks ...

      Of course, yesterday I received 300 rushley from the State Department, just a bottle of vodka and a couple of fish omul were enough.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 1 May 2013 12: 33
        -1
        Quote: OTAKE
        do not take everything literally, I do not urge to buy everything in a row and ruin your production, but to buy individual samples.

        After reading all the discussion, I was once again convinced that in spite of your young age you are a smart and thinking person!
  • Phantom Revolution
    Phantom Revolution April 22 2013 11: 08
    +1
    Quote: OTAKE
    A weapon cannot be native, a weapon must be, and it must shoot, kill, detonate, destroy. Moreover, the Turks produce many weapons under license, and they own many technologies in the military-industrial complex, that is, they do not stupidly squander money, but are actively developing industry.

    Weapons are manufactured by us, we create, modernize, etc. Yes, about the Soviet backlog, of course it is, but the Russian Federation is the recipient of the USSR. And for the Turks, everything is purely made of foreign parts, they currently do not have their own.
  • viktorR
    viktorR April 23 2013 18: 08
    0
    But nothing that the Soviet Union-this is Russia? Of course, Russia is weaker in all aspects than the USSR was, but Russia is the backbone of the USSR.
    In short, the example is not correct; you, as always, are trying to humiliate Russia and its citizens.
    A simple example of your example being incorrect is what Russia can do, what the USSR did. and if Russia cannot, then no one can. While Turkey is unlikely to be able to make NATO aircraft, or even tanks without the help of the NATO developing countries.
  • LaGlobal
    LaGlobal April 22 2013 08: 44
    0
    As for politics, without the support of Turkey's "friends-partners", Turkey would not be so aggressive!
    1. Apollo
      April 22 2013 09: 12
      +7
      The appearance of the Turkish army over the past decades has really changed dramatically. Towards strengthening and modernization. The creation of its own defense industry also says a lot, the goal is to weaken the country's dependence on US arms supplies. A video about the Turkish Air Force pilots. Of course, they are far from Vityaz and Swifts and yet.

      1. viktorR
        viktorR April 23 2013 18: 45
        0
        I do not argue with you, but I remembered a story from the Internet)).
        When Turkey received, in my opinion, old Phantoms or maybe f-16s from the Americans, the Turks were trained in America, and one Turkish trainee had an engine failure, he reported to the RP about the refusal, the RP commanded: "Turkish pilot eject" and all 4 Turkish pilots , which were ejected in the air))). And the Turks had 4 fewer aircraft) one faulty and three more serviceable))). I don't know if this is true or some myth, but it's funny, it's too lazy to check, to be honest ...)
    2. OTAKE
      OTAKE April 22 2013 09: 20
      -3
      Quote: LaGlobal
      As for politics, without the support of Turkey's "friends-partners", Turkey would not be so aggressive!

      And there it’s not so, and it’s not like that here!) Here are some people, Jews can’t do anything, Turks can’t do anything, Germans can’t do it, the Omerikos are finally stupid, they all support each other, here’s rabble! here I understand North Korea !! 11 Krosaftsy must be friends with them !! Ani all parvut!
  • Apollo
    April 22 2013 09: 10
    0
    The appearance of the Turkish army over the past decades has really changed dramatically. Towards strengthening and modernization. The creation of its own defense industry also says a lot, the goal is to weaken the country's dependence on US arms supplies. A video about the Turkish Air Force pilots. Of course, they are far from Vityaz and Swifts and yet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C7OVTH_V8EQ
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 22 2013 09: 52
    0
    For a certain part of the audience, unfortunately not a small one, the concepts of "good" "bad" "aggressor" directly depend on nationality. Moreover, almost 90% of countries are among the "aggressors". And, moreover, "aggressors" DO NOT pay in return. For them, Russia is a neighbor and a partner with whom they want to coexist normally.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding April 22 2013 10: 21
      +4
      Quote: xetai9977
      For a certain part of the audience, unfortunately not a small one, the concepts of "good" "bad" "aggressor" directly depend on nationality. Moreover, almost 90% of countries are among the "aggressors".

      Well, just 90%. Romania, Spain or Italy, no one writes in the aggressors. Do not exaggerate.
      And what to do with the term potential adversary? Replace it with an unlikely friend or a heavily armed neighbor?
      Nobody records Turkey as enemies. Cases of bygone days. But not to calculate the multivariance of the scenario for the development of relations in the future is always fraught.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 22 2013 14: 44
        -1
        Okay, let it be 85%
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil April 22 2013 09: 53
    +4
    At the moment, the ability to wage war directly depends on the economic potential, own tanks and planes are wonderful, but I didn’t hear something about the powerful Turkish economy, playing with my muscles on the border is one thing, and reconstructing the Ottoman Empire even if the Turks are not trimmed can, give up. The last major war in the cat. Turkey participated was World War I in the cat. except Galipoli. there was not a single military success, and well, even the valiant Turks successfully slaughtered the Armenians. Even if they were better in exactly the same place, we still lacked the unstable Turkey at hand.
    1. OTAKE
      OTAKE April 22 2013 10: 10
      -3
      Quote: Standard Oil
      At the moment, the ability to wage war directly depends on the economic potential, own tanks and planes are wonderful, but I have not heard something about the powerful Turkish economy

      Among Muslim countries, Turkey is currently an economic athlete. More than a trillion GBP is proof of this.
      playing with their muscles on the border is one thing, and even the Turks will not be able to recreate the Ottoman Empire, surrendered. The last major war in the cat. Turkey participated was World War I in the cat. except Galipoli. there was not a single military success

      Right on the border? Korean War 1950-1953, Invasion of Cyprus, Turkish-Kurdish conflict, War in Afghanistan. Then let's speak directly, the last major war in which Russia took part - the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, although in the west it would rather be called a "special operation", since agitprop has been working for us invariably since the time of Nikita Khrushchev, the Five-Day War, oh how) The battle is simple, and the experience was just wildly valuable, scouting enemy territory with a bomber, tyrit computers from Georgian schools, golden forks from the tables of Georgians, bicycles and toilets from houses, and also fucking shoes from the barracks and military uniforms from the bodies of killed Georgians! that's what I understand!
      well, even the valiant Turks successfully slaughtered Armenians

      Well, apparently there was why, and was it really that bad? Are you a historian or an expert in the alleged "genocide" of the Armenians to speak like that?
      Let them sit better in one place exactly, we still lacked an unstable Turkey at our side.

      Here we have stability!
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil April 22 2013 10: 41
        +4
        Is it one thing to fight as part of the UN forces in Korea, Cyprus? HA HA, with the Kurds? I don’t know such a country, in Afghanistan? Again, the NATO coalition. About the five-day war of Georgia against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, you are not at war in the subject.
        The Armenian Genocide is universally recognized as early as in the joint Declaration of May 24, 1915 allied countries (Great Britain, France and the Russian Empire), the Council of Europe recognized the Armenian Genocide (1998 [129], 2001 [130]), the European Parliament (1987 [131] , 2000 [132], 2002 [133], 2005 [134]), UN Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities [135]. This is all Wikipedia read before you say anything.
        Well, about stability, Russia has a LOT of flaws, but I am sure that I live in a stable country.
        1. OTAKE
          OTAKE April 22 2013 10: 50
          -1
          Quote: Standard Oil
          Is it one thing to fight as part of the UN forces in Korea, Cyprus? HA HA, with the Kurds? I don’t know such a country, in Afghanistan? Again, the NATO coalition. About the five-day war of Georgia against Abkhazia and South Ossetia, you are not at war in the subject.

          Then the USSR / Russia did not participate in any significant military conflicts after the Second World War, according to your logic lol
          The Armenian Genocide is universally recognized as early as in the joint Declaration of May 24, 1915 allied countries (Great Britain, France and the Russian Empire), the Council of Europe recognized the Armenian Genocide (1998 [129], 2001 [130]), the European Parliament (1987 [131] , 2000 [132], 2002 [133], 2005 [134]), UN Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities [135]. This is all Wikipedia read before you say anything.

          They suggested that a joint commission of historians be convened in order to study this issue, the Armenians refused, apparently the Armenians need to achieve recognition of the genocide in order to get a bunch of all kinds of nishtyaks from Turkey.
          1. Standard Oil
            Standard Oil April 22 2013 11: 02
            +5
            Quote: OTAKE
            Then the USSR / Russia did not participate in any significant military conflicts after the Second World War, according to your logic

            Well, it was officially so. Military advisers and the supply of weapons are one thing, and the throw of Soviet armored armada to the English Channel is completely different. Isn't Hungary a military conflict? Just don’t start singing liberal songs about how Soviet tanks crushed defenseless babies. I know enough people who participated in them and I assure you it was a full-scale military operation.
            Well, why the Armenians do not shake Turkey, then ask the Armenians themselves. I name the official documents that confirm that the genocide took place.
            1. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 10
              +1
              Quote: Standard Oil
              Well, it was officially so. Military advisers and the supply of weapons are one thing, and the throw of Soviet armored armada to the English Channel is completely different. Isn't Hungary a military conflict? Just don’t start singing liberal songs about how Soviet tanks crushed defenseless babies. I know enough people who participated in them and I assure you it was a full-scale military operation.

              If the results of the "military conflict" in Hungary and Czechoslovakia brought some kind of experience for the conduct of modern. war, then everything is clear to me with your thought, because half a million military and 5 thousand tanks for performing this kind of operation is too much, such an army can be not like Czechoslovakia .. half of Eastern Europe can be demolished in one volley
              Well, why the Armenians do not shake Turkey, then ask the Armenians themselves. I name the official documents that confirm that the genocide took place.

              And who actually shakes Turkey? Let the Armenians not refuse then, cooperate, present their evidence, documents, their Turks, together and get out of the way, otherwise it turns out that you’ve decided that you’ve decided to eat a fish and sit down
              1. Standard Oil
                Standard Oil April 22 2013 11: 31
                +2
                Well, well, you don't like Hungary and Czechoslovakia, let's go from the other side, what will you say about Afghanistan? Really, the Soviet army did not fight there, and why do you sweep aside the period of the Great Patriotic War, let's count from the very formation of the Red Army participated in the war with Poland, there is experience ? Yes. With the interventionists, do you have experience? yes. with the white army, but after all there was a bunch of pros of both the old Russian army and all sorts of Czechs. Do you have experience? Yes. Winter war with Finland, Nazi Germany, Japan (Hasan, Halkin Gol, Manchuria 1945). Great powers Germany, Japan, Italy and all alone without the NATO. And with whom did Turkey fight after the shameful surrender in the First World War? They were even made by the Bedouins with Lawrence of Arabia. Forgive the "wars" waged by Turkey under the wing of Uncle Sam and NATO, or with their tacit approval and assistance.
                And enough about the poor Armenians, there is an official UN document that confirms the fact of genocide and so far there is no other document that says the opposite, I will assume that genocide has occurred.
                I do not want to insult Turkey at all; I simply state the facts in my opinion I have never once lied.
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 36
                  -4
                  Quote: Standard Oil
                  Well, well, you don't like Hungary and Czechoslovakia, let's go from the other side, what will you say about Afghanistan? Really, the Soviet army did not fight there, and why do you sweep aside the period of the Great Patriotic War, let's count from the very formation of the Red Army participated in the war with Poland, there is experience ? Yes. With the interventionists, do you have experience? yes. with the white army, but after all there was a bunch of pros of both the old Russian army and all sorts of Czechs. Do you have experience? Yes. Winter war with Finland, Nazi Germany, Japan (Hasan, Halkin Gol, Manchuria 1945). Great powers Germany, Japan, Italy and all alone without the NATO. And with whom did Turkey fight after the shameful surrender in the First World War? They were even made by the Bedouins with Lawrence of Arabia. Forgive the "wars" waged by Turkey under the wing of Uncle Sam and NATO, or with their tacit approval and assistance.
                  And enough about the poor Armenians, there is an official UN document that confirms the fact of genocide and so far there is no other document that says the opposite, I will assume that genocide has occurred.
                  I do not want to insult Turkey at all; I simply state the facts in my opinion I have never once lied.

                  And, well, yes, I agree with this, everything in our army still remains as 70 years ago, the same techniques, the same tactics, the war in Georgia showed. :)
                  Nobody says that you are lying, it just worries me one question, since the Armenians are so interested in the universal recognition of the genocide, why do they shy away from any investigation and expertises by international historians? The Turks are ready to provide all the archives and data, but this doesn’t suit the Armenians, do they need money to let them calm down or what? oh, this mysterious Armenian soul ..
                  1. Standard Oil
                    Standard Oil April 22 2013 11: 48
                    +1
                    I agree that the current army is not a fountain, but it’s not about her. And leave the Armenians alone, let them really understand themselves, just just brought a fact from history, I don’t know if it’s true or is it all forged, but at the moment it exists and if they appear studies that say the opposite and convincingly prove it, I will be glad. that justice has triumphed.
                    1. Yarbay
                      Yarbay April 22 2013 12: 00
                      -2
                      Quote: Standard Oil
                      just brought a fact from history,

                      There are no facts)))))))
                  2. Setrac
                    Setrac April 22 2013 21: 28
                    +1
                    Quote: OTAKE
                    And, well, yes, I agree with this, everything in our army still remains as 70 years ago, the same techniques, the same tactics, the war in Georgia showed. :)

                    And not to change, artillery has dominated the battlefield for several centuries, and until the replacement of artillery is not expected.
                2. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 22 2013 11: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Standard Oil
                  And enough about the poor Armenians, there is an official UN document that confirms the fact of genocide and so far there is no other document that says the opposite, I will assume that genocide has occurred.

                  Quote: Standard Oil
                  Well, why the Armenians do not shake Turkey, then ask the Armenians themselves. I name the official documents that confirm that the genocide took place.

                  Read Wikipedia Less !!
                  Please grab the texts of a document adopted by the UN or other organizations named by you, they have nothing to do with recognition * of genocide *!
                  No respectful country in the world has accepted the events of 1915 as genocide in the world!
                  Welcome the text of your document))
                  Some kind of subcommittee of the organization was trying to accept, and all the rest of the countries pressed on the heading of the subcommittee !!
                  here we discussed it, I do not want to repeat myself!
                  http://topwar.ru/26669-roman-lesnevskiy-tureckiy-marsh-u-yuzhnyh-rubezhey-rossii
                  .html # comment-id-1067771
        2. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu April 22 2013 11: 03
          +1
          A number of experts (including Russian ones) believe that Turkey is becoming a regional power .. But Nikolai Zlobin, once wrote in general that Crimea (possibly) will leave Turkey in 20-30 years ..
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 22 2013 11: 16
            +6
            Quote: Alibekulu
            A number of experts (including Russian)

            By name please, which of the experts?
            Quote: Alibekulu
            . And Nikolai Zlobin, somehow wrote in general that Crimea (possibly) will leave Turkey in 20-30 years ..

            This wax six American !!! By the way, not one of his forecasts has come true. As for the Crimea, I won’t even say. But as for Turkey itself, it can develop until it meets with Russia, there will be a repetition of history.
            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu April 22 2013 11: 32
              -1
              http://www.zagolovki.ru/daytheme/zlobin/04Sep2008
            2. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu April 22 2013 11: 38
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              By name please, which of the experts?


              for example, Vladimir Dergachev. Article "MULTI-PARTNER GEOPOLITICS OF TURKEY".
              - Bulletin of analytics, 2010, No. 3. http://www.dergachev.ru/analit/191010.html
              Eurasian Tiger. Over the past decades, despite internal problems, Turkey, unlike another Eurasian power - Russia - has successfully modernized, and the gap in macroeconomic indicators is inexorably narrowing. Turkey entered 2009 in 16 year among the largest economies in the world in terms of gross domestic product ($ 880 billion).
            3. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu April 22 2013 11: 57
              -1
              This vosche six American !!! By the way, not one of his forecasts did not come true.

              Well, here I do not agree with you .. Yes, it’s quite adequate, I bent with the Crimea, of course .. In Russian, she speaks (analyzes) a normal language ..

              As for the "American Six" ... Choi reminds me from our historical past: "Are you against the Party's line? !!!" am
              and the sacred phrase "party card on the table" angry
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov April 22 2013 12: 29
                +4
                Quote: Alibekulu
                . In Russian, speaks normal language (analyzes) ..

                And excuse me, he does not know where he gets it from, and who does he represent?
                Quote: Alibekulu
                As for the "American Six" ... Choi reminds me from our historical past: "Are you against the Party's line? !!!"

                He is like that, and even he does not deny it; he works and worked for the USA.
                1. Alibekulu
                  Alibekulu April 22 2013 13: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  He is like that, and even he does not deny it; he works and worked for the USA.

                  A link can be ?? recourse

                  Maybe it will be more accurate .. request
                  Not in the USA, but in the USA ?? !!

                  I will give an example from my life. Me, often our cheers are called Kazakhs ORYSSHYL (approximate translation Russophile)
                  Well, and presenting: "you think in Russian"
                  To which I usually answer:
                  "Yes, I think in Russian, BUT NOT PRO-RUSSIAN"

                  Maybe he and spinyon angry but for some reason, I’m generally interested in his opinion belay
            4. Yarbay
              Yarbay April 22 2013 12: 03
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              This wax six American!

              Hi Sanya!
              Whether we love Turkey or not, there are facts!
              Perhaps in politics they play to the tune of the United States and this is traditional, but to say that Turkey is weak is to deceive yourself !!
              Currently, economically and militarily, Turkey is among the top ten successful countries in the world !!
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov April 22 2013 12: 31
                +2
                Quote: Yarbay
                but to say that Turkey is weak is to deceive yourself !!

                A serious, but far from the strongest opponent.
                Quote: Yarbay
                Currently, economically and militarily, Turkey is among the top ten successful countries in the world !!

                Above writes that 16 is a place, but Turkey does not have the potential, it simply does not because of its geographical location.
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 38
                  -2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Above writes that 16th place, but Turkey has no potential, just because of its geographical location.

                  Of course not, Turkey was heading for success! it didn’t work out not fartanulo!
                  "location at the crossroads of important roads connecting Europe with Asia and the Black Sea countries with the Mediterranean countries. The water system, which includes the Sea of ​​Marmara, the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles, is an important international route connecting the Black Sea with the World Ocean. In the southern part of the Bosphorus and the Golden Horn (Sea of ​​Marmara) is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and the largest city in Turkey - Istanbul (formerly Constantinople). Through Turkey, there is a railway and highways connecting Europe with many other countries. "
                2. Alibekulu
                  Alibekulu April 22 2013 13: 29
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Above writes that 16 is a place, but Turkey does not have the potential, it simply does not because of its geographical location.

                  Eh recourse
                  Firstly, I am not writing, but Vladimir Dergachev, in the article "MULTI-PARTNER GEOPOLITICS OF TURKEY". I gave the link above ...
                  Secondly, many would only dream of such a geographical position .. (I am Kazakh) ...
                  Thirdly, Prince Svyatoslav, so beloved by Russians, just in that direction wanted to put the center of his principality ..
                  Fourthly, why immediately, as soon as an opinion opposite to yours is expressed ... it starts right away, in the style of a "Japanese policeman" ?? !! request
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac April 22 2013 21: 49
                    0
                    Quote: Alibekulu
                    Thirdly, Prince Svyatoslav, so beloved by Russians, just in that direction wanted to put the center of his principality ..

                    Svyatoslav wanted to set up a capital on the Danube in order to control trade.
                3. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 22 2013 14: 14
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Above writes that 16 is a place, but Turkey does not have the potential, it simply does not because of its geographical location.

                  Yes, on the contrary, due to its geographical location, Turkey has potential !!
                  The question is different: can the political elite achieve further economic progress and use the full potential ??
                  The current economic successes are largely due to the fact that one party leads and can quickly pass the necessary laws in parliament and certainly thanks to the United States !! America is doing everything to make the current regime as long as possible only with economic success !! Erdogan’s party only thanks to successes in the economy to stay in power!
            5. ayyildiz
              ayyildiz April 22 2013 15: 53
              +3
              The simplification of trade conditions, the elimination of trade barriers and the creation of favorable conditions for investment in order to achieve the 100 billionth trade turnover have become the main areas of economic cooperation between Russia and Turkey. This is stated in the signed protocol at the end of the XII meeting of the Joint Russian-Turkish Intergovernmental Commission on Trade and Economic Cooperation, held on April 18-20 in Antalya.

              "The parties agreed to support mutual direct investments, including in the form of joint ventures, and to help solve the problems faced by investors in both countries," the document says. The Russian and Turkish delegations also agreed to expand transport and logistics capabilities. Turkey, in particular, "confirmed its intention to create logistics centers on the territory of the Russian Federation", which are intended for Turkish export goods, ITAR-TASS reports.
          2. ultra
            ultra April 22 2013 12: 02
            +4
            Quote: Alibekulu
            that Crimea (possibly) will leave Turkey in 20-30 years ..
            But the face will not crack! lol lol
          3. baltika-18
            baltika-18 April 22 2013 12: 54
            +4
            Quote: Alibekulu
            And Nikolai Zlobin, somehow wrote in general that Crimea (possibly) will leave Turkey in 20-30 years ..

            Nikolai Zlobin lives and works in America, a member of several closed clubs and communities.
            This mraztina voices only the aspirations of the world behind the scenes and prepares public opinion.
            She speaks very positively about the work of the dumb Dimon.
            Catch a minus for such authority.
            1. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu April 22 2013 13: 44
              +3
              Quote: baltika-18
              Catch a minus for such authority.


              Nda recourse like a "marshal", but the claims are like an offended child ..
              "..take your toys and do not pee in my pot angry "
            2. Yarbay
              Yarbay April 22 2013 14: 09
              0
              Quote: baltika-18
              She speaks very positively about the work of the dumb Dimon.

              And tell me, then, that all of you are enemies?
              Did Kondaliza Rice appoint her Prime Minister in your country ??
              Did the Americans elect him President in due time?
              This is not serious!
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. Alibekulu
              Alibekulu 2 May 2013 16: 53
              +2
              Quote: baltika-18
              Nikolai Zlobin lives and works in America, a member of several closed clubs and communities.
              This mraztina voices only the aspirations of the world behind the scenes and prepares public opinion.
              She speaks very positively about the work of the dumb Dimon.
              Catch a minus for such authority.


              Nda what Here is a link to "News of the week" dated 28.03.2013/XNUMX/XNUMX ..
              I hope the state channel "Russia I" does not work for America ?? !! wink
              The video is called "Lost Kosovo growing turkey "

      2. Flooding
        Flooding April 22 2013 11: 02
        +1
        Quote: OTAKE
        The battle is simple, and the experience is simply wildly valuable, to scout the enemy’s territory with a bomber, rub computers from Georgian schools, golden forks from Georgian tables, bicycles and toilets from houses, as well as nice shoes from barracks and military uniforms from bodies of murdered Georgians! I understand that!

        Now everything is clear. Gulchitai opened her face.
        Confirm your words to avoid misunderstandings.
        1. OTAKE
          OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 24
          -3
          Quote: Flood
          Quote: OTAKE
          The battle is simple, and the experience is simply wildly valuable, to scout the enemy’s territory with a bomber, rub computers from Georgian schools, golden forks from Georgian tables, bicycles and toilets from houses, as well as nice shoes from barracks and military uniforms from bodies of murdered Georgians! I understand that!

          Now everything is clear. Gulchitai opened her face.
          Confirm your words to avoid misunderstandings.

          Excuse me, gentlemen, patriots, for the most impressionable, I’ll say right away, on video editing, photoshop and generally false propaganda of damned Americans and gay people !!
          A lot of such evidence, if you are not banned in Google, you can see, The main objects of the attack were: toilets, used shoes, socks, underwear and bicycles
          about a gold fork and form

          about fucking barracks and shoes !!!

          about bike

          Z. Muzyk, an officer giving an interview to Georgians, because there is no connection, drives UAZ in groups and informs about the situation
          1. Flooding
            Flooding April 22 2013 11: 45
            +1
            Quote: OTAKE
            Sorry sorry gentlemen patriots

            As for the form from the bodies of the murdered Georgians, I did not see it. If they’ve taken it, it’s probably in the barracks. Do not misinterpret.
            But thanks anyway.
            1. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 48
              +1
              Quote: Flood
              Quote: OTAKE
              Sorry sorry gentlemen patriots

              As for the form from the bodies of the murdered Georgians, I did not see it. If they’ve taken it, it’s probably in the barracks. Do not misinterpret.
              But thanks anyway.

              Glad to try nothing! watch the first video about the fork from the 35th second. there about the uniform, the reporter asked the peasant something like "What are you wearing in the Georgian uniform?" and the muzhik said, "What form? This is ... not a Georgian form," and are they not afraid that they will shoot their own people from afar? : D
              1. Flooding
                Flooding April 22 2013 12: 06
                +1
                Quote: OTAKE
                Glad to try for nothing!

                OTAKE, I saw the form. But where did you get the idea that she was removed from the corpse ???
                Return to the above.
                1. OTAKE
                  OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 14
                  -3
                  Quote: Flood
                  Quote: OTAKE
                  Glad to try for nothing!

                  OTAKE, I saw the form. But where did you get the idea that she was removed from the corpse ???
                  Return to the above.

                  I don’t know why ... :) I was not there. Well, if you think that walking down the street you can easily take off your clothes, then I'm wildly puzzled! now I’m thinking whether to go right now to the street or not, God forbid, we’ll undress on the way to our comrades, otherwise I can imagine in my head all that unfortunate naked Georgian who was taken off form alive ... :)
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding April 22 2013 13: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: OTAKE
                    I was not there. Well, if you think that walking down the street you can easily take off your clothes, then I'm wildly puzzled!

                    Go down lower and lower. And how vigorously began.
                    You have provided some links to the video. One of them is in the Georgian barracks.
                    Didn’t the crazy idea arise that you could get hold of uniforms there?
                    Stop picking your nose, OTAKE. If your head is overworked today, give it a headache.
      3. Setrac
        Setrac April 22 2013 21: 24
        0
        Quote: OTAKE
        Russia - the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, although in the West it would rather be called a "special operation", since agitprop has been working in our country invariably since the time of Nikita Khrushchev, the Five-Day War, oh, how)

        For a soldier who goes on the attack, the scale of the war does not matter, he risks here and now and will die only once, so at least a five-day war, despite the machinations of the State Department agitation industry, which has been working invariably since the time of Scaliger.
      4. viktorR
        viktorR April 23 2013 18: 50
        +2
        Are you a historian or an expert in the alleged "genocide" of the Armenians, to say that?
        - And you, I look at both the historian and the expert ... They put us here on the shelves. The Armenians themselves, of course, slaughtered themselves and then erected a slander on the Turks, for fun ...
    2. xetai9977
      xetai9977 April 22 2013 11: 02
      +6
      Dear, Turkey has a very powerful economy. GDP growth of 8-9% per year. At the same time, the country is successfully developing industry, producing from cars to helicopters and drones. And of good quality. I don’t understand where does part of the audience have such confidence that Turkey is sleeping and dreaming of the Ottoman Empire? and Russia is a potential opponent of Turkey? Ask a Turk about this, surprise him very much.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 22 2013 11: 06
        +2
        Quote: xetai9977
        . I don’t understand where does part of the audience have such confidence that Turkey is sleeping and dreaming of the Ottoman Empire?

        Well, probably because of the behavior of Turkey in the political field and not baseless.
        Quote: xetai9977
        and Russia is a potential opponent of Turkey?

        Russia is the only country that can not only put a stick in the cradle of Turkish ambitions, but return Constantinople to its rightful owners.
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 April 22 2013 11: 19
          +4
          What I doubt very much. Firstly, Turkey is not a country during the Russian-Turkish wars. Secondly, it is a member of NATO. And thirdly, Russia itself is no longer the same.
          1. consul
            consul April 22 2013 12: 19
            +2
            Quote: xetai9977
            What I doubt very much. Firstly, Turkey is not a country during the Russian-Turkish wars. Secondly, it is a member of NATO. And thirdly, Russia itself is no longer the same.


            But the people are the same (especially those who serve in the army). I’m sure that in the event of a war, Constantinople will be ours, and membership in NATO specifically Turkey will not help. My father served in a missile military unit, which covered all of Turkey in case of war, I don’t think that something has changed in this plan (plan of goals).
            1. OTAKE
              OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 23
              -1
              Quote: consul
              But the people are the same (especially those who serve in the army). I’m sure that in the event of a war, Constantinople will be ours, and membership in NATO specifically Turkey will not help. My father served in a missile military unit, which covered all of Turkey in case of war, I don’t think that something has changed in this plan (plan of goals).

              The guys with me who studied not just in Constantinople, could not find Turkey on the map, I doubt very much that there are at least 10 percent of the employees who day and night, running on the parade ground and resting on the army’s high school, have plans for how to quickly capture Constantinople is displeased to you, the Turks :)
            2. xetai9977
              xetai9977 April 22 2013 14: 12
              +1
              In give! like little children! "and we have nuclear weapons" ... Does anyone seriously think that nuclear weapons will be used? excluding, of course, direct aggression .. this rhetoric once again proves that Russia has nothing more to present ...
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 22 2013 13: 53
            +3
            Quote: xetai9977
            .Firstly, Turkey is not a country during the Russian-Turkish wars

            At that time, the Turkish army conquered half of Europe and was the strongest, in any case it was considered such, until they fought with Russia.
            Quote: xetai9977
            Secondly, she is a member of NATO

            Yes, somehow do not give a damn.
            Quote: xetai9977
            third Russia itself is not the same

            Forces more than enough !!!
            1. xetai9977
              xetai9977 April 22 2013 14: 18
              +4
              Russia does not care about NATO? patriotism is a good thing, of course, but cap-hatred once showed itself during the Crimean War. One must be realistic.
              1. Earthman
                Earthman April 22 2013 20: 26
                -5
                Quote: xetai9977
                Russia does not care about NATO? patriotism is a good thing, of course, but cap-hatred once showed itself during the Crimean War. One must be realistic.

                For some reason, his companions on this branch do not help Romanov. As for Russia, in 10-15 years there will be no such state on the world map
      2. ultra
        ultra April 22 2013 13: 01
        +2
        Quote: xetai9977
        where does part of the audience have such confidence that Turkey is sleeping and dreaming of the Ottoman Empire
        And where do you have confidence that does not dream?
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 April 22 2013 14: 20
          +1
          We just know the Turks and Turkey well
  • Stas57
    Stas57 April 22 2013 09: 58
    +1
    the Turkish army in its current form is an heir to the Atatürk’s svezkost and a serious opponent of the Islamization of society. And the re-Islamization process is well-established, not abruptly, gradually, but it is going on.
    Something all this is similar to Iran before the Islamic revolution.
    At the moment, Iran will not work out of Turkey in any way, but gradually everything can turn upside down, and we will have an aggressive, inadequate state with a lot of problems at our borders.
  • Forest
    Forest April 22 2013 10: 19
    0
    The Turkish army is the largest in NATO in number, and given the ongoing struggle between secular and Muslim lobbies in the government, it is a very problematic neighbor.
  • Professor
    Professor April 22 2013 10: 38
    +8
    A distinctive feature of this missile is to equip a laser homing head, which has virtually no analogues in the world.

    How I "love" this hackneyed expression "has no analogues in the world." It's like a knife in the balls. ZAZ 968M also had no analogues in the world.

    Actively developing in Turkey and projects to create their own military corvettes, submarines, aircraft carrier and fighter.

    ... and an alien space station. laughing
    The Turkish government has lost touch with reality. They think that they have mastered the screwdriver assembly of Renault, Honda, etc. and will be able to do everything. In practice, even their tanks are not able to upgrade, the same situation with aircraft and missiles.
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 22 2013 15: 59
      +1
      Up to 80% of spare parts for these machines are manufactured in Turkey! laughing
      1. Professor
        Professor April 22 2013 16: 00
        0
        Tales of a thousand and one nights.

        PS
        However, I was not attentive enough. 3% is "up to 80%". So you are right. hi
        1. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 22 2013 16: 04
          +1
          Tales for you!

          In Russia, the main parts for Renault and Fiat come from Turkey
        2. ayyildiz
          ayyildiz April 23 2013 11: 20
          0
          Average 56% of Turkish parts for all manufactured machines in Turkey! hi
          1. Professor
            Professor April 23 2013 20: 51
            -2
            Quote: ayyildiz
            Up to 80% of spare parts for these machines are manufactured in Turkey! laughing


            Quote: ayyildiz
            Average 56% of Turkish parts for all manufactured machines in Turkey! hi

            I do not understand to believe? ayyildiz or ayyildiz? what
    2. SPACE
      SPACE April 22 2013 19: 56
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      How I "love" this hackneyed expression "has no analogues in the world." It's like a knife in the balls

      Who is in the balls, and who is "balm for the heart" bully
      Advertising, vanity, pride ... these show-offs make this world a world of soap bubbles! When shrapnel begins to fly, only then we will find out what it costs. Do not be so cruel, do not deprive people of their illusions. stop
      Quote: Professor
      ZAZ 968M also had no analogues in the world.

      but this is not so, there is one miracle car analog. AUDI PRINZ laughing
      1. Professor
        Professor April 22 2013 19: 59
        +1
        If there is an analogue, then only Porsche, also an engine in ... feed. wink
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 22 2013 11: 06
    +2
    Quote: Flood
    Nobody records Turkey as enemies

    And you pay attention to the lexicon of comments.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding April 22 2013 11: 26
      0
      Quote: xetai9977
      And you pay attention to the lexicon of comments.


      I read and do not find. Help me.
      It speaks for you emotions.
      Love the Turks? Yes, it seems like nothing.
      But hostility is still oh how far.
      God willing - open hostility will pass by.
      1. OTAKE
        OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 31
        0
        Quote: Flood
        Quote: xetai9977
        And you pay attention to the lexicon of comments.


        I read and do not find. Help me.
        It speaks for you emotions.
        Love the Turks? Yes, it seems like nothing.
        But hostility is still oh how far.
        God willing - open hostility will pass by.

        Not at all, oh young man inquisitive
        Your eyes burning a little annoying.
        Your identity is convenient to me today
        To introduce Turkish history. : D
        1. Flooding
          Flooding April 22 2013 11: 54
          +2
          Quote: OTAKE
          Not at all, oh young man inquisitive
          Your eyes burning a little annoying.

          The first two lines are good. Thank you.
          But to refute your words about importunity I will refuse
          from such mercy. Already tried to prove to me that the Russian-Turkish war
          Russia was fueling, and the peace-loving Turks were just defending themselves.
          Already tried to prove to me that I was wrong, my good friend could not
          to be in sexual slavery at the noble Turkish horsemen, from which
          she was later freed by the whole world, because the Turkish police do not sleep and mores
          at their height.
          So fire ...
          1. OTAKE
            OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 01
            -2
            Quote: Flood

            Already tried to prove to me that I was wrong, my good friend could not
            to be in sexual slavery at the noble Turkish horsemen, from which
            she was later freed by the whole world, because the Turkish police do not sleep and mores
            at their height.
            So fire ...

            Hmm, hmm .. under what circumstances did she manage to get there? Very interesting, just intrigued
            1. Flooding
              Flooding April 22 2013 12: 08
              +2
              Quote: OTAKE
              Hmm, hmm .. under what circumstances did she manage to get there? Very interesting, just intrigued

              I will not share. You do not enter into the circle of those people with whom I will discuss it. I already wrote everything. He who has eyes will see. Pick your nose further.
              1. OTAKE
                OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 16
                -1
                Quote: Flood
                Quote: OTAKE
                Hmm, hmm .. under what circumstances did she manage to get there? Very interesting, just intrigued

                I will not share. You do not enter into the circle of those people with whom I will discuss it. I already wrote everything. He who has eyes will see. Pick your nose further.

                Okay And then I thought for a moment that you yourself came to the Turks in a brothel, already twitched in fear! now it’s calmer!
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding April 22 2013 12: 22
                  +3
                  Quote: OTAKE
                  And then I thought for a moment that you yourself came to the Turks in a brothel, already twitched in fear! now it’s calmer!

                  Listen jelly. I wrote about a disaster with a loved one.
                  You have the audacity to joke about this. Has your conscience become fat?
                  Stop your govnosrach.
                  1. OTAKE
                    OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 25
                    -2
                    Quote: Flood
                    Quote: OTAKE
                    And then I thought for a moment that you yourself came to the Turks in a brothel, already twitched in fear! now it’s calmer!

                    Listen jelly. I wrote about a disaster with a loved one.
                    You have the audacity to joke about this. Has your conscience become fat?
                    Stop your govnosrach.

                    Well, are you so nervous then? I just shared my short-term thoughts about your post, and you're nervous! Right now I sneak a snot in my nose and stop my govnosrach
                  2. Earthman
                    Earthman April 22 2013 20: 32
                    -2
                    Quote: Flood
                    Listen jelly. I wrote about a disaster with a loved one.
                    You have the audacity to joke about this. Has your conscience become fat?
                    Stop your govnosrach.

                    Well, I understand your situation, familiar in se_s-slavery, but unless the Turks are guilty, no offense, but modern Slavs hang themselves on anyone, but non-Russians, probably drink less and the device functions more than an ordinary one, let's roll the Slav. And despite the Islam, Asians are more romantic and not nationalistic, the same Türks mixed with all races
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding April 23 2013 09: 27
                      +2
                      Quote: Earthman
                      So I understand your situation, familiar in se_s-slavery

                      Sir, you are du-cancer. Unfortunately, without the right to satisfaction.
                      And no hard feelings. I wrote that she was rescued from "hospitable" Turkey.
                      You fool twice, allowing yourself to write such things without knowing the details of a particular case.
                      You fool three times, drawing a parallel between sex slavery, the masculine dignity of the Turks and the lasciviousness and immorality of Slavic women.
                      I don’t accept any understanding from a fool.
                      1. Earthman
                        Earthman April 23 2013 10: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        Sir, you are du-cancer. Unfortunately, without the right to satisfaction.
                        And no hard feelings. I wrote that she was rescued from "hospitable" Turkey.
                        You fool twice, allowing yourself to write such things without knowing the details of a particular case.
                        You fool three times, drawing a parallel between sex slavery, the masculine dignity of the Turks and the lasciviousness and immorality of Slavic women.
                        I don’t accept any understanding from a fool.

                        It’s easier for you to admit that someone is a fool than to admit that it’s not ideal for you either, so forgive my tone in the above fixed comment, but all the same, you don’t need to reflect this matter in Turks and Turkey.
                        In winter, there was a scandal over how a Kazakh woman was kept by a se_x slave in Moscow, with free labor, but no one cried about this case, it’s logical if I also associate your Russian woman with Turkey
                      2. Flooding
                        Flooding April 23 2013 13: 06
                        +3
                        Quote: Earthman
                        It’s easier for you to admit that someone is a fool than to admit that it’s not ideal for you either, so forgive my tone in the above fixed comment, but all the same, you don’t need to reflect this matter in Turks and Turkey.

                        You were inattentive and inattentive again.
                        The question was raised in a completely different light.
                        As soon as it comes to Turkey, all Turkish brothers applaud while standing and do not accept any criticism of it, deny all negative facts, both well-known historical and little known from personal experience.
                        Therefore, he wrote that arguing on this topic with such citizens is pointless.
                      3. OTAKE
                        OTAKE April 25 2013 12: 02
                        -2
                        Quote: Flood
                        Quote: Earthman
                        It’s easier for you to admit that someone is a fool than to admit that it’s not ideal for you either, so forgive my tone in the above fixed comment, but all the same, you don’t need to reflect this matter in Turks and Turkey.

                        You were inattentive and inattentive again.
                        The question was raised in a completely different light.
                        As soon as it comes to Turkey, all Turkish brothers applaud while standing and do not accept any criticism of it, deny all negative facts, both well-known historical and little known from personal experience.
                        Therefore, he wrote that arguing on this topic with such citizens is pointless.

                        in this case, you are more likely to be a d. uren, if only because we are discussing military, economic and polit. component of Turkey, what kind of banana did you drag your friend here, I don't understand, the conversation and the category of OBS, one grandmother said, who comes to Turkey, immediately falls into slavery, nothing justified vyser, in order to somehow fill the inf. space, they say "not vkurse as there in your Turkey, but my friend there almost fell into slavery."
      2. Yarbay
        Yarbay 1 May 2013 12: 41
        0
        Quote: Flood
        Already tried to prove to me that I was wrong, my good friend could not
        to be in sexual slavery at the noble Turkish horsemen, from which
        she was later freed by the whole world, because the Turkish police do not sleep and mores
        at their height.

        Well this is not an argument !!
        Doesn’t this happen in Russia?
  • xetai9977
    xetai9977 April 22 2013 11: 14
    -1
    Quote: Standard Oil
    ask the Armenians themselves

    WHAT to ask the Armenians? They have had samizdat cards since Soviet times: instead of SYRIA, IRAN, TURKEY, GEORGIA, AZERBAIJAN, THE NORTHERN CAUCASUS of RUSSIA - "ARMENIA". What, you didn't know? or do you prefer not to remember?
    1. Standard Oil
      Standard Oil April 22 2013 11: 40
      -2
      What you don’t remember? You know, I was born in 89 and the USSR almost didn’t find and what kind of cards do the Armenians give me a damn, I just state the facts, for me the Armenians do not represent any fraternity of peoples and other nonsense, and for me it’s Armenian that Georgian, that Ukrainian is everything one-FOREIGNER, and whose colony now wants to become the Armenia of America, Turkey, China of the United Arab Emirates EVERYTHING IS EQUAL TO ME !!!
      1. OTAKE
        OTAKE April 22 2013 11: 46
        -4
        Quote: Standard Oil
        What you don’t remember? You know, I was born in 89 and the USSR almost didn’t find and what kind of cards do the Armenians give me a damn, I just state the facts, for me the Armenians do not represent any fraternity of peoples and other nonsense, and for me it’s Armenian that Georgian, that Ukrainian is everything one-FOREIGNER, and whose colony now wants to become the Armenia of America, Turkey, China of the United Arab Emirates EVERYTHING IS EQUAL TO ME !!!

        I did everything right, let me shake your mighty hand and take a photographer
      2. xetai9977
        xetai9977 April 22 2013 12: 04
        +1
        Finally, there was one Russian who did not defend the Armenians. For this you respect.
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz April 22 2013 12: 24
          +1
          Quote: xetai9977
          Finally, there was one Russian who did not defend the Armenians. For this you respect.

          April 24 is soon. So let’s drink for the Armenians wink
          By the way, we arrange an Azeri-Turkish party on this day. We usually spend on Sunday, and on Saturday the Kavkaz party, but decided to postpone it))
          1. xetai9977
            xetai9977 April 22 2013 14: 43
            -1
            For the Armenians it would be necessary not to drink, but to pour!
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz April 22 2013 15: 09
              -1
              Quote: xetai9977
              For the Armenians it would be necessary not to drink, but to pour!

              YERLI ne vidiw podmiqivaet tebe smaylik))
              1. xetai9977
                xetai9977 April 22 2013 18: 51
                0
                I SEE THIS I AM THE WORD !!
            2. Artmark
              Artmark April 22 2013 15: 53
              0
              cast for your people !!! what kind of hardening
        2. Flooding
          Flooding April 22 2013 13: 09
          +2
          Quote: xetai9977
          Finally, there was one Russian who did not defend the Armenians. For this you respect.

          Do not be so naive, dear man.
          What profile or full-face is he Russian?
  • OTAKE
    OTAKE April 22 2013 12: 31
    0
    Quote: Yeraz
    Quote: xetai9977
    Finally, there was one Russian who did not defend the Armenians. For this you respect.

    April 24 is soon. So let’s drink for the Armenians wink
    By the way, we arrange an Azeri-Turkish party on this day. We usually spend on Sunday, and on Saturday the Kavkaz party, but decided to postpone it))

    Do not get drunk only there, to the state of full Artsakh
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 22 2013 12: 47
      0
      Quote: OTAKE
      Quote: Yeraz
      Quote: xetai9977
      Finally, there was one Russian who did not defend the Armenians. For this you respect.

      April 24 is soon. So let’s drink for the Armenians wink
      By the way, we arrange an Azeri-Turkish party on this day. We usually spend on Sunday, and on Saturday the Kavkaz party, but decided to postpone it))

      Do not get drunk only there, to the state of full Artsakh

      wow wow this is not a Bukhara event))) the event is held at the club rented by us in advance, everything goes until 9, mainly Azerbaijani and Turkish youth come and if any other Turks express a desire. but in 99% percent everything is going fine. I just found music and competitions.
      And the Azerbaijanis also spend the Caucasus party, but all Caucasians are allowed to go there and the music is mainly Lezginka, but here they were bubbling before, this one didn’t look at it and all that, they just started bringing the Caucasians familiar with each other, and not everyone without a damn and voila honor and dignity disappeared and only Caucasians remained the norm.
  • svskor80
    svskor80 April 22 2013 12: 45
    +6
    Let's keep a strong Black Sea Fleet, which will be the regional maritime leader, and after that we will remember Turkey and its armed forces on big dates and holidays. Correct if I'm wrong.
    1. ultra
      ultra April 22 2013 13: 06
      +2
      100% right! hi
  • ayyildiz
    ayyildiz April 22 2013 15: 43
    +3
    Azerbaijan, Baku, April 22 / corr. Trend A. Tagiyev /

    Saudi Arabia has asked Turkey to acquire the Anka UAV and Altai tank, Sabah newspaper reported on Monday.

    To purchase tanks and drones, the chief of the General Staff of Saudi Arabia, Hussein Bin Abdellah Al-Gobail paid an official visit to Turkey and met with President Abdullah Gul, the country's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Turkish counterpart Necat Lake.

    Riyadh intends to acquire Turkish armored vehicles for two billion dollars.
  • 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city April 22 2013 16: 24
    +2
    I haven’t seen so much nonsense in the comments for a long time.
    1. In the case of Turkey’s claims to the Crimea, Russia can (if there is a will) annex it within a week. And no one will jerk only there will be a lot of screeching.
    2. The Army of Ayzerbajan is 0. A bunch of weapons will not help. For example, during the first Iraqi company, Iraq invaded the territory of the Saudis with one tank division and the Saudis just started to scatter. (Do not confuse with Kuwait). And the Saudis have weapons !!! I am not Armenian and I relate equally to both of them.
    3. With modern weapons, the Black Sea is a puddle. The territory of Turkey is reachable even for tactical weapons. For example, the entire Black Sea Turkish fleet can be removed without even putting the fleet into the sea. Etc.
    1. xetai9977
      xetai9977 April 22 2013 19: 01
      +3
      you have several mistakes: 1) Turkey does not claim to Crimea. 2) the state was spelled out incorrectly 3) Turkey is not a state with which one can speak the language of ultimatums.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac April 22 2013 22: 00
        0
        Quote: xetai9977
        you have several mistakes: 1) Turkey does not claim to Crimea. 2) the state was spelled out incorrectly 3) Turkey is not a state with which one can speak the language of ultimatums.

        But Russia does not speak ultimatums with Turkey, it is the blue dream of the West - to hang another enemy on the neck of Russia.
  • pinecone
    pinecone April 22 2013 16: 33
    0
    Recently, the Turkish media have been actively discussing the topic of the inevitable clash of interests of Turkey and Russia in the struggle for a sphere of influence in Central Asia after the alleged withdrawal of NATO troops from Afghanistan in 2014. Articles by political scientists, analysts, university professors, etc. are published on this issue. Various proposals are being put forward to strengthen and further develop relations with these states in the field of economy, culture and education, with special attention being paid to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. A notable fact was the recent interview of Hasan Kanbalat, director of the Turkish Center for Strategic Studies for the Middle East, with a correspondent for the Zaman newspaper. Highlighting Turkey's growing interest in the region, along with the possibility of further cooling relations with Russia, he noted the following points:
    “At present, the USA and Russia are partners, so America prefers Russian influence in this region in order to limit the possible establishment of Chinese domination in it” ...
    “We should develop more specific projects, and not only those that are based on cultural similarities with this region. Now South Korea receives 15 thousand Kyrgyz workers annually. In Russia, there are more than half a million. But only 3000 Kyrgyz live in Turkey. Here we still lag behind in the development of such ties. "
    1. Alibekulu
      Alibekulu April 22 2013 19: 22
      +1
      Quote: pinecone
      struggle for the sphere of influence in the countries of Central Asia .. special attention is paid to Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.


      In Central Asia they cooperate with Turkey .., but in which case they immediately point to the door angry
      If you are so well aware of the situation in Central Asia, then you should know that the Turks were once turned off from Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan .. And in Kazakhstan they are under a tough "cap" of the authorities, which at any moment are ready to neatly hint "Who is the boss ".. I won't say anything about Kyrgyzstan recourse
      Best regards hi something like that...
  • washi
    washi April 22 2013 17: 07
    -1
    Forget about Turkey. If it were not for Slavic prostitutes (mainly Ukrainian) and flirting with the Turks of Kazakhs and Azerbaijanis, they would not have rocked the boat. They are already afraid of Russians in their blood. And we, unfortunately, do not give a damn about them. Well, they are not fighters already. Since the inhabitants of Russia ceased to fall into their Janissaries. Lokhov English, French, they break off as in 1916. And after the revolution they could not cope with us. Kars had already ceded to them Kars, in return for free passage through the straits.
  • SPQR
    SPQR April 22 2013 18: 53
    +2
    We don’t need hatred, it’s always ending badly for Russia, but it’s starting now, they say we throw Turkish monkeys with caps ... We should take any threat seriously, do ordinary soldiers pay for frivolity in the war, do we need it? As an example, the Crimean War, and now Turkey will have more ammunition than the British and French. With the collapse of the USSR, Turkey needs to realize the potential that has accumulated over the years against the USSR for the possibility of becoming a strong regional power. Another question is that Russia now poses absolutely no threat to Turkey as and Turkey for Russia. As long as Russia has not recovered after liberal reforms and other perestroika defilements, it remains too weak to influence the Central Asian republics, and the Soviet Union, which was liberated with the departure of the USSR, is too weak new owners came, and you thought that the Americans would wait for Russia to get stronger and come back?
  • SPACE
    SPACE April 22 2013 20: 27
    0
    It is striking that in the photo the tanks are crooked, one to the left, the other to the right, the first is generally crooked, and the distance of the latter is clearly greater than the front ones. These are trifles, but discipline and professionalism are clearly lame.
    1. ayyildiz
      ayyildiz April 22 2013 21: 22
      +2
      Quote: SPACE
      discipline and professionalism are clearly lame


      Turkey is deeply mistaken one of the most disciplined armies in the world hi
  • pinecone
    pinecone April 23 2013 06: 53
    0
    The indisputable advantage of the Turkish army is the fact that manned on the basis of universal military duty, in essence, it is still worker-peasant, and the prestige of officer service is very high.