Germany to help Ukraine fight Russian drones

Skyranger 35 on chassis tank Leopard 1

Germany will strengthen Ukraine's anti-drone defense by supplying Kyiv with the latest Skyranger anti-aircraft systems, designed specifically to combat dronesThe first installations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine should be received by the end of this year.

The head of the German concern Rheinmetall Armin Papperger announced the signing of an agreement with Kiev to supply the Ukrainian army with the latest Skyranger anti-aircraft systems. The document is already ready, signatures will appear under it this Wednesday, September 10, 2025. The signing will take place as part of the DSEI defense exhibition in London.

The parameters of the agreement are not disclosed, but, according to Papperger, Kyiv will receive anti-aircraft systems worth "hundreds of millions" of euros. Preliminary, the first ZSU should appear in Ukraine this year. What modification the Ukrainian army will receive is also not reported, but a number of experts have concluded that it will most likely be the Skyranger 35 ZSU on the Leopard 1 tank chassis. "35" is the caliber of the automatic cannon. The Germans promise that these ZSUs will not give Russian drones the ability to strike the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Each of these systems can cover an area of ​​four by four kilometers, providing a complete drone-free zone. This means that all UAVs will be destroyed.

– the head of the concern stated.

The Skyranger anti-aircraft system is a remotely controlled module with an automatic cannon of 30 or 35 mm caliber, which can be installed on various chassis. It is also possible to strengthen the module with anti-aircraft rockets.

Comments

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Reflection on the defeat in World War II is tearing the Germans apart. They are ready to take off their last pants…

[topol717]

Quote: Kote pane Kohanka

Ready to take off your last pants...

Why are you so sure that Germany will give these ZSUs away for free? Where does it say that? I think it will be a sale.

[Brturin]

Quote from: topol717

I think there will be a sale.

most likely "credit", they take them out at high speed, and to pay them back.... that's still when and to whom.... and for the Germans the problem is that they have a choice between defense and social security - the bolivar (budget)) can no longer support two... and Merz is bound by a coalition agreement, and Scholz and Co. do not want to give up social security... and next year there are elections in 5 lands, AiG may well take one or... the CDU/CSU is a larger force, and for Scholz, losses in such elections

[topol717]

Quote: BrTurin

most likely "credit"

Who in their right mind would give a loan to Ukraine now?

[Brturin]

The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) will provide Kyiv with a 500 million euro loan to purchase gas under an EU guarantee, Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Sviridenko said. https://1prime.ru/20250813/sviridenko-860666026.html

hundreds of millions were found for gas, let alone for weapons

According to Papperger, Kyiv will receive anti-aircraft systems worth "hundreds of millions" of euros

[topol717]

Quote: BrTurin

hundreds of millions were found for gas, let alone for weapons

It is not a fact that all this has already been paid for. Prime Minister Yulia Sviridenko has no choice but to say what the people want to hear. But as they said, they need gas for 1,3 billion Euros. And here it is a measly 500 million.

[kulemin0025gmail.com]

It's clear who will buy it. But who will pay for it? The Ukrainians will buy anything, but they have nothing to pay with ☺️

[Mouse]

Ready to take off your last pants...

So they are happy to run around with bare bottoms...

[Nexcom]

So it's the local leadership that's tearing it up. Ordinary Germans don't really need it.

[rocket757]

Germany this, Germany that... it's clear that the new/next micro-fuehrer is furious, making plans...
How did it all end before... do they think that this time everything will be different?

[NIKN]

The ZSU will not allow Russian drones to strike the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

As for the Ukrainian Armed Forces? I thought Kyiv was to be defended, namely, the iconic targets... But they will quickly run out on the LBS...

[rocket757]

With their range on the front lines, they really will run out quickly...
They will be rushing around in the rear, covering a 4x4 km zone... so-so defense if there are few of them.

[Vladimir 290]

I completely agree with you and one more thing, it turns out that it is not only our journalists who regularly talk about "having no analogues..." exciting VO subscribers, all Westerners also suffer from this to the same extent

[rocket757]

The advertisement is engine of the trade...
Basically, they didn't offer anything new...
Everything is really effective, very expensive, to replace it with some cheap ersatz... not a good idea. We tried it more than once and in fact the total costs were no less.
The Germans are disposing of old stuff in new packaging and under loud slogans... it may happen that they will end up receiving criticism from the conscious in a very peculiar form...
First time or something.

[Romario_Argo]

The T-14 Armata is equipped with a robotic machine gun with a caliber of 7,62 mm, which can also be used against incoming RPGs and FPV drones.
the machine gun can be replaced with a 12,7 mm one, like on the T-90M3 DPU
or even add a 12mm shotgun with a 400-round capacity, minimum 100 drones

[rocket757]

So, various armored vehicles were equipped with machine guns to combat flying vehicles... and so, in aviation, they began to use missiles with a greater range of destruction...
Drones have to be fought with different methods, firearms are also used.

[Romario_Argo]

We need a cheap, mass and fast solution to protect armored vehicles from FPV drones
the simplest is a DPU for a machine gun and a shotgun with belt feeding
in the absence of a KAZ, radar, IR, UV cameras - the minimum that remains is a robotic installation of the T-14 with its own optics for recognition and tracking

[rocket757]

The most effective way to solve multi-layered problems is complex methods...
Apply everything that is there, that works, that is possible at the given moment in time...

[Romario_Argo]

as an option, if you install a KAZ with radar and cameras on equipment, then you can install regular DPUs without optics - it is both faster and cheaper

[rocket757]

The task is feasible, but requires serious investment...
How will the big bosses act, the question is?

[Romario_Argo]

People's Military-Industrial Complex to help the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation
There are already many variants of these DPUs that are installed on tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers
The Ministry of Defense only supplies components, and legal entities only assemble the product.

[rocket757]

Temporary solutions, half measures... the problem is serious, multi-planned, it will have to be solved at a very serious design and production level!

[by land]

The tank's optics have a field of view of 20-30 degrees at minimum magnification, meaning that less than 3% of the battlefield is visible at any given time, and some common attack directions are not covered at all (such as attacks from above). Even with automatic target detection, the drone simply will not be detected 95% of the time.

[Romario_Argo]

what was meant was a robotic machine gun mount from the T-14 with its own optics, coupled with the tank's combat information system to destroy drones

[by land]

It is possible, although the solution will be either cheap or effective, but not both. Look at the requirements: a dozen high-quality thermal optics to cover the upper hemisphere, engines fast enough to react (from detection in the infrared spectrum to impact there are only a few seconds) and accurate enough to hit a small drone, a stabilization system to defend against the tank while it is moving... All these technical problems are, of course, solvable, but only at a high price.

[Romario_Argo]

the speed of fpv drones is not high, mostly up to 30 meters per second
the main danger is ambush attacks on passing vehicles
the solution is NOT simple
covering all projections of equipment with 50mm ceramic armor and 2x Relikt DZ + gratings and cable screens
+ KAZ Afghanit or Arena
+ several DPUs with shotguns from drones
+ improvement of software for destroying drones: hovering, lying on the ground, flying overhead from equipment, etc.

[kulemin0025gmail.com]

How many of these machines are needed to defend Kuev? I don't think the Fritzes have that many. And as for the entire Outskirts...

[Alex777]

When this tankette is equipped with the right grilles, it won't have time for drones.

[rocket757]

So, near the front line, all sorts of things can fly in, which the bars are no obstacle to...

[Alex777]

Quote: rocket757

So, near the front line, all sorts of things can fly in

I agree. Air defense systems are usually made on the basis of a tank for use on the front lines.

[rocket757]

Tank or not... when something with a caliber over 100 mm comes flying in, it won't seem like much.
Moreover, no one will make a super-armored turret; it is not justified and limits the performance characteristics of the anti-aircraft mount.
At least that's how it was before, expecting this product to be super-duper better... is unlikely.

[bayard]

Quote: Alex777

An air defense tank is usually based on one that is intended for use on the front lines.

The Sumerians use these ZAUs as a short-range air defense system against subsonic cruise missiles and attack UAVs. And they are really quite effective if the Geraniums are flying at low altitude. But if you raise them to 3,5-4 km and dive almost vertically from this altitude onto the target, even a Geranium that is hit during the dive, if it does not detonate, will still fall in the target area and hit it. They put these shooters in Kyiv and near high-priority ones to protect objects. The Sumerians have had them for a long time, they are just preparing a new batch. The "Cheetah" is a serious beast, you need to know its habits.

[th.kuzmichev]

It's been a while since we took the Reichstag.

[Lemon]

"Reymetal" has been asking for "hazel" for a long time! Maybe it will beg for it someday...

[kulemin0025gmail.com]

And how many of these machines will the German Nazis supply to the Ukrainian Nazis? Most likely, several for combat testing. Perhaps we will receive new models for studying enemy weapons.

[rocket757]

In pursuit... 4x4 km. That's what they say, but in reality, one blow from above and hello, the installation is kaput.
However, a strike by several drones from different directions has the same result.
So the installation is not useless, but it is not a wonder weapon... and there needs to be a lot of them so that they can show sufficient effectiveness.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

However, a strike by several drones from different directions has the same result.

At the very least, these machines will be used in a "duet" (as part of batteries). Don't consider the enemy dumber than a "locomotive".

[rocket757]

I specifically wrote that there needs to be a LOT of such machines... including because single objects are a target, and not the most difficult one for drones to attack.
If you look at the situation from the other side, A LOT and in one place is... you can judge for yourself what will come of it.
Simple mathematics, physics and... of course accounting, where would we be without it.

[stankow]

Well, a lot - one in a battalion is enough for the squinting group to work calmly, without looking back at the birds.

[rocket757]

rustling and it really can work quietly...

[Russobel]

Well, that's great, Russian drones really need new targets...

[stankow]

She's too tough for them. They'll have to go around her.

[OSE4Kinsura]

And they will install it, if they haven't installed it already! You won't find a better place without risking anything! The fact that two (((brotherly nations are beating each other up is only a joy to them! Divide and rule is a working principle to this day...

[Vadim S]

Excellent machines! We are all afraid to break away from the 30mm caliber and do something more serious

[Nexcom]

What exactly? For example, the Chinese made a BOPS for the KPVT based on its cartridge, it showed good results in tests... Again, we seem to have a development based on a 57 mm assault rifle... But when will it be sent to the troops...

[Vadim S]

That's what I'm talking about, nothing but developments and talk! The 57 caliber is excellent, but the whining starts that the existing shells are outdated, and new ones are expensive and take a long time. That's how it is with us

[Nexcom]

Well, here are questions for officials and manufacturers. The latter also want money and a lot of it...

[Adrey]

Quote: Vadim S

That's what I'm talking about, nothing but developments and talk! The 57 caliber is excellent, but the whining starts that the existing shells are outdated, and new ones are expensive and take a long time.

We don't have a new artillery system in this caliber. If you mean the notorious LShO, then in fact it is an AGS with a completely different, radically weakened propellant charge, absolutely unsuitable for air defense in this regard.
https://alternathistory.ru/aleksej-borzenkov-legkie-i-smertonosnye-shturmovye-orudiya-xxi-veka/
Read it if you're interested.

[rosomaha]

57mm is too much... we need something intermediate between 30 and 57mm... that's about 37-45mm. And it's better to put 57mm on a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. But this caliber raises the question of ammo... you can't take much of it

[Nexcom]

But a lot is not a little. When the caliber is not enough, you can't increase it. And so - well, it will be a little excessive, but probably the range of targets will be wide. IMHO. Maybe I'm wrong. But for the rearguards it will be easier - there will not be such a variety.

[Adrey]

Quote: Nexcom

But a lot is not a little.

"A lot" is the excess weight of both the gun itself and the mount. Reinforced reinforcements to withstand the recoil, reinforced drives and aiming brakes to quickly aim the gun (critical for air defense), respectively, a greater need for power-to-weight ratio. Limited ammunition, reduced mobility, larger size of the mount itself.
Everything should be in moderation.
Regarding the machine gun in 57, look at my post above.

[Zaurbek]

Depends on the height of the target. There is a clear gradation of caliber in mm and reach

[Viktor Sergeev]

Yes, because guns are useless, a dead end. Small-caliber missiles, yes. At a speed of 120 km/h, the target flies 30 meters per second. A projectile, at a target range of 2 km, flies for more than 2 seconds, it is affected by the wind (unpredictable at the top), gravity, plus barrel error, plus the target flies, it itself is affected by the atmosphere and wind, that is, it changes direction and altitude within a few meters. Hitting a UAV with a 35, 57, or even 100 mm projectile is out of the realm of fantasy, you need to fire a very long burst, visually tracking the flight of the projectile and the burst. This installation will lay out its entire warhead on one UAV. Guns are useless and the 35 mm caliber is no better than 30. It turned out that the Shilka (23 mm) is better than the Tunguska at real combat distances, when protecting the same long-range air defense systems, at a target of 100-500 meters. The main thing is to direct a cloud of shells towards the target, and it is effective at short range, then dissipates.

[Adrey]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Hitting a UAV with a 35, 57, or even 100 mm shell is a fantasy; you need to fire a very long burst, visually tracking the flight of the shell and the burst.

Remote detonation? No, never heard of it...

[Comet_1]

Quote: Adrey

Remote detonation? No, never heard of it...

Reduces the average shell consumption by about 2.6 times with remote detonation. And that's all. A cannon shell is very far from the capabilities of a SAM.

[SovAr238A]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Yes, because guns are useless, a dead end. Small-caliber missiles, yes. At a speed of 120 km/h, the target flies 30 meters per second. A projectile, at a target range of 2 km, flies for more than 2 seconds, it is affected by the wind (unpredictable at the top), gravity, plus barrel error, plus the target flies, it itself is affected by the atmosphere and wind, that is, it changes direction and altitude within a few meters. Hitting a UAV with a 35, 57, or even 100 mm projectile is out of the realm of fantasy, you need to fire a very long burst, visually tracking the flight of the projectile and the burst. This installation will lay out its entire warhead on one UAV. Guns are useless and the 35 mm caliber is no better than 30. It turned out that the Shilka (23 mm) is better than the Tunguska at real combat distances, when protecting the same long-range air defense systems, at a target of 100-500 meters. The main thing is to direct a cloud of shells towards the target, and it is effective at short range, then dissipates.

What are you talking about on a military forum?
1. Anti-aircraft artillery has been learning to shoot at air targets since the 20s.
And by the end of the 80s, beginning of the 90s it reached its apogee at that time. And all those "difficulties" that are in your head are no longer difficulties, but already calculated options embedded in the algorithms of the BIUS operation.
And the development of barrel anti-aircraft artillery now, in the 20s of the 21st century, with new super-powerful computers, new projectiles with controlled remote detonation - already makes such models the best weapon against UAVs. There are dozens of real videos on the Internet, how a burst of 5-10 shots is guaranteed to take out Geranium at a distance of 3 km.
It's a pity that we don't have such.

They cause us the same damage every day with their 100 drones that we cause them with 500-700 drones.
They really do shoot down a very large percentage of our UAVs with their Cheetahs, Skyrangers, and Franken-SAMs.

[Comet_1]

Quote: SovAr238A

What are you talking about on a military forum?

Viktor Sergeev wrote correctly about anti-aircraft guns and small-caliber missiles. A 35 mm projectile with programmable detonation reduces the average ammunition consumption to defeat a Geran type target by approximately 2.6 times. That's all. The only ones who published data on this are the Poles (there is material on VO), everyone else is silent. Everything else in the public media is the result of the work of advertising departments. There is no public data on the ratio of the realized production rates of conventional and programmable projectiles and there is no publicly available accurate data on the ratio of their costs.

Quote: SovAr238A

The development of anti-aircraft artillery now, in the 20s of the 21st century, with new super-powerful computers, new projectiles with controlled remote detonation - already makes such models the best weapons against UAVs.

A SAM is better than a cannon shell. It's just that not everyone has missiles and guidance systems to destroy UAVs. Of course, you can use SAMs from the Patriot, but the production rate of these SAMs is much lower than the production rate of UAVs. Such SAMs will run out quickly.

[Comet_1]

Quote: SovAr238A

There are dozens of real videos online showing how a burst of 5-10 shots is guaranteed to shoot Geranium at a distance of 3 km.

That is, such cases are less than 1% of neglected Geraniums. In statistics, this means a random coincidence, the absence of a pattern.

Quote: SovAr238A

It's a pity that we don't have such.

Why the hell does Russia need such a palliative when it has Pantsir?

[stankow]

It's not about the caliber, but about the radar.

[Comet_1]

Quote: Vadim S

We are all afraid of breaking away from the 30mm caliber and doing something more serious.

Why should we do this? We have a SAM (TBK-1055).

[karivar144]

Who else would know how to use them?

[Andrey_i_K]

Natasha is good, it's a pity she's not ours...

[Viktor Sergeev]

What's good about it? Our guys are right to refuse guns on the armor. Guns are useless at a range of 500 meters, like milk from a goat. At a distance of 100 meters, the probability of hitting a 40x40 cm target is 60 percent, further away it's only worse, and at 2 km it's generally close to zero, and that's with new barrels. Then there will be wear and tear and that's it. But they'll make their money back.

[Comet_1]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Ours are right to refuse guns on their armor.

The Pantsir does not refuse guns. There are no guns on only two modifications of the Pantsir. On one - because of the installation features, and on the second - because of the climatic conditions of operation.

[Zaurbek]

The system is good, but if you take Geranium-2 (and something like that), then when knocking out the air defense missile system, it starts flying in at a high altitude and diving steeply... and here the efficiency of the artillery systems drops sharply.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Useless piece of iron. The accuracy of firing cannons at a drone flying at a distance of a kilometer or more is close to zero, which is why our guys completely abandoned cannons in the latest Pantsir. Well, and firing at 3-4 km is something to laugh at. Even a 120-125 mm cannon at 2 km already hits with so-so accuracy, and a 35 mm shell at 500 meters will hardly hit a square meter by meter with at least 1 shell out of 10, and then it gets worse and worse. To cover one object, you need to cram this crap every 500 meters. I wonder if Germany has at least a dozen of these craps and how much one will cost? Plus spare barrels, shells.

[rosomaha]

for this 35mm cannon, projectiles with programmable detonation have been made.. when approaching, for example, a target, a sheaf of tungsten fragments is thrown out... flying apart in the form of a cone, it increases the area of ​​destruction. And no one is talking about a direct hit of an artillery shell on a UAV. And therefore the problem with the Pantsir cannons is that there is no such projectile.. and they have a larger caliber, which allows increasing the number of PE. That's why I started talking about 37-45mm cannons... the ammo is acceptable, the rate of fire and weight are also... a programmable detonator is needed

[Comet_1]

Quote: rosomaha

And therefore the problem with the Pantsir guns is that there is no such projectile.

Why the hell do the Pantsir guns need such a projectile? The Pantsir has a SAM. And the Pantsir guns have such a rate of fire and are used at such a range that there is no particular need to mess around with a programmable projectile for them. It would be better to make more SAMs for the Pantsir.

[Boycott]

There is no information about guidance. How will they be guided on LBS versus FPV on fiber optics at a height of one meter?

[SovAr238A]

Quote: BoyCat

There is no information about guidance. How will they be guided on LBS versus FPV on fiber optics at a height of one meter?

They won't go to LBS.
They are designed for aircraft-type UAVs, cruise missiles, and gliding UAVs.
Their task is to provide facility security.
There they will show their maximum effectiveness.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

The Skyranger anti-aircraft system is a remotely controlled module with an automatic cannon of 30 or 35 mm caliber, which can be installed on various chassis. It is also possible to strengthen the module with anti-aircraft missiles.

Rostnkh, where is our Derivation-PVO? That, like Armata and Boomerang, it is more valuable than the lives of our soldiers?

[Romanenko]

They are in a great hurry to test the system in conditions of real counteraction, while there is still a place. They did not even take into account its status as a new, and supposedly secret development. Yes, the pragmatism of Eurogays has not left its positions since the Middle Ages. The waste-free technologies of concentration camps with their soap, mattresses, leather lampshades are still the same. Why stop the extermination of hohls if you can test new weapons there?

[Alexey G]

A good target for FPV drones...
You need to enter from the side near the ground and then go up and into the tower or into the side with a cumulative shell!

[OXOTHuK_RUSSIA]

In fact, the West does not help Kyiv.
They test their latest weapons for real battles.
They need a lot of data and characteristics from hits of fragments, shells, control in real moments.
And nothing more.
And they (the Ukrainians) are just test rabbits.