Starship-Super Heavy's Successful Flight: A New Reality That Will Change Everything

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Starship-Super Heavy's Successful Flight: A New Reality That Will Change Everything

On August 27, 2025, an event occurred whose significance, as well as the potential threat emanating from it, is difficult to overestimate - for the first time, the fully reusable spacecraft Starship and its fully reusable first stage Super Heavy made a successful flight. Yes, it can be said that both the first and second stages did not land on the launch pads without damage, but splashed down in the ocean, but now it is only a matter of time - a fully controlled descent has been achieved, and things will be easier from here.

In Russia, this event not only went unnoticed, but it didn’t attract much attention either – just an ordinary person news. But in reality, before our eyes, things are happening story - the emergence of fully reusable super-heavy vehicles missiles something like Starship-Super Heavy will change everything.




Starship splashdown in the Indian Ocean

“Whoever controls space controls the world” – the author has previously quoted this phrase from American President Lyndon B. Johnson, said in the early 60s.

Today we will return to this topic again and see what space can give to those who own it.

Planetary communication


It already exists – it’s Starlink, but it will be even better, more secure, more reliable. The same Starlink is evolving, the new Starlink Direct-to-Cell satellites can already work directly with smartphones, even those not equipped with satellite communication modems – the standard 5G modules are enough.

The ability to launch 150 tons at a time 100-200 times a year or more, at $100-200 per kilogram of payload (PL), will make seamless global communications as commonplace as running water and sewerage in developed countries. Russian officials, who have been banning access to everything and everyone lately, should remember this – soon they will be able to ban sunlight and precipitation with the same success.


Starlink Direct to Cell

Just as nerve fibers grow into the most remote parts of a living organism, communications will penetrate all weapons that operate by indirect fire. Network-centricity indicators will reach a qualitatively new level - retargeting in flight, analysis of the results of a strike in real time, new intelligence capabilities, encrypted communication with agents and sabotage and reconnaissance groups, and much more.

Most developed and not so developed countries of the world will have access to such communication.

Where will they get it from?

It's very simple: when the production of satellites and their delivery into orbit become available at a relatively low cost, then the same Saudi Arabia or the UAE will order satellites somewhere in China, France or Russia (yes, we can make those too), after which Elon Musk will launch them into orbit for a pretty penny, and then the investment will have to be recouped somehow, so they will sell such communications to anyone who wants them.

As with cell phones, future modems will likely support a variety of networks and standards, so satellite support will eventually appear in everything from smart plugs to children's toys.

Restricting access to such communications would require a regime comparable to that in North Korea, with a completely disenfranchised population and restrictions on almost all electronics.

All-seeing eye


This is the next direction - the creation of global networks of Earth remote sensing satellites. In principle, the same US is already moving in this direction, which we previously discussed in the material Elon Musk is building a Star Shield: SpaceX is forming a new constellation of Starshield satellites commissioned by the Pentagon.

Already now, a significant part of our problems with the destruction of any objects by the enemy deep in Russian territory, with high-precision bypassing weapons long-range air defense zones (Defense), most likely associated with American orbital reconnaissance equipment – ​​radio-technical, active radar, optical.


starshield

Due to the ultra-low cost and huge volumes of orbital launches, it can be confidently predicted that in the foreseeable future the planet's surface will be monitored 24/365.

Considering that, as we have already said above, a significant portion of weapons will have “feedback”, and therefore the ability to be retargeted in flight, this will mean a significant increase in risks not only for stationary, but also for mobile objects located, it would seem, in the safe deep rear.

There is a high probability that mobile ground missile systems (PGRK) will “leave the chat”, serious problems will arise for surface ships, and not only for surface ships – a lot of work is being done in the world to create sensors of various types, including those using quantum effects, capable of detecting insignificant deviations in the magnetic or gravitational field of the Earth, which will potentially make it possible to track large mobile underwater objects (submarines) and stationary underground objects from space.

And finally, we should not forget about the possibility of tracking airborne objects from space – relatively recently, the Chinese demonstrated such a possibility by tracking and accompanying the American stealth fifth-generation F-22 fighter from orbit. In turn, The US is deploying a network of HBTSS and PWSA satellites called the Distributed Fighter Satellite, designed to track hypersonic weapons and will likely be able to track other airborne targets as well..


HBTSS and PWSA

The size of mobile objects that can be detected and identified from space will steadily decrease, so that eventually the armed forces will have to completely change their strategy in terms of camouflage of weapons and military equipment - we will definitely return to this issue.

In addition to all of the above US military deploys Silent Barker satellite network, whose tasks will include monitoring outer space directly from space, and The destruction of enemy spacecraft will be carried out by the Jackal inspector satellites from the private American company True Anomaly.

Golden Dome


Ever since the Cold War, America has been obsessed with the idea of ​​creating an anti-ballistic missile defense system (ABM) that could protect the US from the Soviet, and now Russian/Chinese/North Korean, nuclear arsenals. In Russia, attitudes toward the American ABM system range from condescending – like, “stupid Americans” – to “they destroyed the USSR” – the senile old men from the Politburo fell for a deliberately unfeasible program specially invented by the Americans, which destroyed the country in a senseless arms race.

Both statements are unlikely to be true. Yes, the US failed to create a strategic missile defense system at that time, but it is unlikely that the results of those studies were wasted. Critics always forget that even negative studies are also a result. If the US had flooded space with non-working serial missile defense satellites, it would have been a classic "embezzlement", but they stopped in time. As for the collapse of the USSR, everything is even simpler here - "at the top" they wanted "everything for themselves", and the population "below" for the most part did not care anymore...

The strategic missile defense system deployed later with missiles in Alaska and California has very limited capabilities, but most countries have nothing like that at all – the US has at least some chance of intercepting single ICBMs, and the entire country is protected from strikes over the North Pole, not just the capital, as in our case.

In 2020, the author examined the topic of nuclear deterrence in detail, among other things, we talked about the prospects for the development of American missile defense systems in the material "The Decline of the Nuclear Triad." US Missile Defense After 2030: Intercepting Thousands of Warheads, and five years later, in January 2025, US President Donald Trump announced the creation of a global missile defense system, Golden Dome, based on a space segment that should include hundreds of thousands of satellites.


PRO "Golden Dome"

The most interesting thing is that the option of creating a private commercial missile defense system that would cover the United States by subscription is being considered.

Will the US be able to achieve its goals?

They have an intention, it has been voiced at the highest level, in the event that Starship-Super Heavy goes into production and radically reduces the cost of space launches, then the chances of its implementation will increase many times over - they will simply be able to conduct as many experiments as necessary until they achieve a positive result.

Some analysts say it is impossible in principle to create a missile defense system capable of intercepting hundreds of ballistic missiles and thousands of warheads. The problem is that if you strike first, you don't need to intercept that many. In the article Nuclear mathematics We looked at how many nuclear charges the US needs to destroy the Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces by launching a surprise disarming strike, and it is entirely possible to create a missile defense system to intercept the remaining ones.

Moreover, the low cost of launching a payload into orbit allows us to think about creating a space-to-surface weapon.

inevitability


The possibility of deploying space-to-surface weapons was considered in the United States back in the last century, for example, within the framework of the Arrows of God/Wands of God program.

All the necessary technologies are available to create a space-to-surface weapon, the only issue is the high cost of launching the payload into orbit, but now it can be removed by the Starship-Super Heavy system. When striking from space, no explosive is required - the kinetic energy released when a metal block hits the surface will be significantly higher.

In principle, it is possible to achieve an effect similar to that of a space-to-surface weapon using ballistic missiles. Moreover, there is a high probability that kinetic warheads are used in the non-nuclear version of the Russian medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) Oreshnik.

But orbital combat platforms will pose a much greater threat – the launch of a ballistic missile can be detected at the very beginning, while a strike from space can be sudden when choosing the optimal approach trajectory – the same “Chelyabinsk meteorite” was not detected until the moment of its fall. The cost of delivering warheads by a ballistic missile will also be much higher than “wholesale launch” into orbit using a fully reusable carrier.


Orbital strike platform concept "Arrows of God" / "Wands of God"

At some point, the cost of delivering a payload to a target using Starship-Super Heavy may become less than that of a strategic bomber, given the risks of its loss, the need for escort by refueling aircraft, fighter cover, and other factors.

By varying the mass and size characteristics of the striking elements and the height of the warhead deployment, it can be optimized for hitting a particular type of target - point highly protected or area poorly protected. It will be extremely difficult to intercept such warheads attacking from orbit.

Just a few minutes can separate a well-protected military base from total destruction, and kinetic warheads can penetrate deep into the ground, so that underground structures will also be at risk. All major military bases, warship berths, any industrial and residential complexes - all of them will turn into targets.

The country that will be the first to deploy in space orbital reconnaissance and strike echelon will dominate our planet militarily.

Conclusions


We have only considered military applications, but in fact the main changes will occur in the civilian segment – ​​the Starship-Super Heavy complex will give rise to a new economy.


Orbital energy, mining, space tourism, growing ultra-pure crystals for microelectronics and hollow organs for human transplantation, synthesis of new chemical compounds and alloys that are impossible under gravity, ultra-fast intercontinental delivery of cargo and passengers – this is just what “lies on the surface”, but in reality the horizons of the space economy may be much broader – the main thing is to provide access, and then business itself will find or create new niches.

And we have considered the directions of military use of space in a fairly narrow segment, since even they go beyond the basic picture of the world for a significant part of the population – "This simply cannot be, because it can never be" – for them, everything is easily solved with a bucket of nails in orbit. But Starship-Super Heavy is the first step towards a future similar to that presented in the wonderful science fiction series The Expanse.


Starship-Super Heavy is the leading, but not the only project of a fully reusable "launch vehicle - spacecraft" system. Firstly, a huge number of startups in Western countries are developing launch vehicles of different sizes and different degrees of "returnability", and secondly, China is hot on the heels of the USA, developing an extremely similar copy of the Starship-Super Heavy system, and is also conducting other projects of reusable launch vehicles and spacecraft.


Previously created, existing and prospective heavy and super-heavy launch vehicles

We shouldn't be shy either: if there is an opportunity to borrow someone's successful developments, then there is no need to invent a "special way", but simply use them. When the Soviet Union was lagging behind in the creation of long-range/strategic bombers, it did not hesitate to completely copy the successful American bomber B-29, which became our Tu-4. As the saying goes, "a good artist will copy, a great one will steal." We must borrow everything we can, and also make maximum use of the remaining Soviet reserve.

After all, the stakes may now be even higher than during the Cold War – perhaps the country that controls space will not control the world, but it may well become “first among equals” and in many ways stop taking into account the opinions of other countries, becoming the leading geopolitical force on planet Earth for a long time.
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  1. -36
    8 September 2025 04: 19
    This news really doesn't matter now.
    1. 21+
      8 September 2025 05: 02
      No, it is important for domestic scientists involved in space.
      1. +9
        8 September 2025 06: 25
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        No, it is important for domestic scientists involved in space.

        Especially for the scientist who, according to Musk, spat on the floor in front of him, expressing his contempt for his plans.
        1. 40+
          8 September 2025 07: 08
          And how much they laughed and mocked Musk here on VO 10 years ago. And he, although not right away, succeeds. Space this is the image of the future of the country and the planet, this is where there is no place for bullies with logbooks (I personally started such ones by order).
          PS As soon as Musk left politics, the heavy reusable system immediately went down the drain.
          1. +8
            8 September 2025 07: 59
            Quote: Civil
            And how much they laughed and mocked Musk here on VO 10 years ago.

            There are those who do this even now. If it is an ordinary citizen, it does not matter, but unfortunately there were such people and most likely there still are among those in power.
            1. +2
              8 September 2025 09: 08
              If an ordinary citizen does this, then most likely it is on orders from those in power. Not on orders, of course, but on the dictates of the soul.
            2. -4
              8 September 2025 15: 10
              I believe that "it's easier to destroy than to build" and we always have the option of having several killer satellites in opposite orbits, filled with tens of thousands of metal balls. An explosion of these satellites on command from Earth and the scattered shrapnel will sweep all the "Golden Domes" from orbit. And the resulting fragments will only complement the picture of the destruction of this system. And the main thing is to have time to blow it up... And it would be better to immediately warn all potential aggressors that for their high technologies in space, there is an ordinary "Russian club" according to L. Tolstoy. And let them first try to fight this club in space.
              1. 0
                8 September 2025 19: 05
                Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                We are always left with the option of having several killer satellites in opposite orbits, filled with tens of thousands of metal balls.

                Where did you get such stupidity?
                1. +2
                  9 September 2025 04: 51
                  In the Soviet Union! There was such a country, it built, tested and even got results. Dig into the history of space exploration and testing of nuclear weapons and other things in space!
                  1. -2
                    10 September 2025 09: 36
                    Quote from Traktoris
                    In the Soviet Union! There was such a country, it built, tested and even got results.

                    Ok, an example of launching a container with metal balls into orbit and testing.
                    1. +1
                      11 September 2025 05: 54
                      An example of launching a container with metal balls into orbit and testing.

                      Zhenya, nobody has put the "Golden Dome" into orbit or tested it yet. And our military talked about such a response, with shrapnel in oncoming orbits, back in the era of Reagan's "Star Wars." Letting him know that "against a cunning ass, there is always ... with a propeller." I never said that we ALREADY have such charged satellites in orbit. Although the Americans once complained about us and the Chinese testing anti-satellite weapons, and that after such isolated tests, a lot of garbage has already appeared in Earth orbit, which really threatens all satellites in peacetime. What surprised you so much, or has the forum just become boring?
                      1. -2
                        11 September 2025 06: 25
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        Our military talked about such a response, with shrapnel in oncoming orbits, back in the era of Reagan’s “Star Wars.”

                        There are plenty of blockheads, especially among the military, who have only one brain and that one is the size of a cap. It is easy to guess the stupidity of shrapnel, just remember physics from the 7th grade, take the formula for the volume of a sphere and calculate the volume in which satellites fly. Take the size of a satellite and the size of the notorious shrapnel and understand that the probability of shrapnel hitting a satellite is no greater than the probability of a tossed hat hitting a flying plane.
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        complained about the testing of anti-satellite weapons by us and the Chinese

                        Anti-satellite weapons exist and have been tested by all sides. But this is at the level of launching a satellite and it shooting down a satellite, i.e. 1 on 1. There is no talk of any "shrapnel", no one has ever done such stupidity.
                      2. 0
                        11 September 2025 06: 31
                        we launch a satellite and it shoots down a satellite, i.e. 1 on 1.

                        I am sure that during the tests it was 1 on 1... But you must agree that it is much more expensive and difficult to hit one satellite into another than to be in a close orbit and at the right moment to sow some space with garbage. request
                      3. -2
                        11 September 2025 07: 02
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        it is much more expensive and difficult to get one satellite to another

                        Of course it’s difficult, but it’s reliable.
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        at the right moment, sow some space with garbage

                        What's the point of "seeding"? You might as well just drop bombs on a formation of bombers from above. There have been similar experiments that ended in nothing.
                      4. 0
                        11 September 2025 12: 39
                        It was a good discussion, though absolutely useless. Since the opposing sides have not done either one or the other. The US has not created the "Golden Dome" and the Russian Federation has not launched killer satellites into orbit.
                        But I didn't come up with the shrapnel option myself, I've seen such proposals in our media more than once. And in the same way, they often write about the dangerous contamination of the most working orbits, old satellites and their debris. And at the international level, they are trying to agree on the mandatory disposal of their devices, after the end of their service life.
                        Your comparison with scattering bombs on a formation of bombers is far from analogous. For example, in terms of price, if you compare an air bomb and dummy balls. In terms of quantity, which can differ by millions of times. And in terms of the time it maintains a threat to the target. The bomb missed and "killed" itself by falling to the ground, while the balls will fly in orbit for years and pose a threat to the target with each orbit.
                        Time will tell where the space countermeasure systems will go. I believe they will figure it out without our fantasies.
                      5. -1
                        11 September 2025 06: 41
                        And also... don't you think that in the heat of the controversy you got carried away with insults to all the officers? who have only one convolution and that one is from a cap.? No desire to apologize and correct yourself? Former and current officers may read you here and how will they react to such a stigma on themselves?
                      6. -1
                        11 September 2025 07: 03
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        Have you gone as far as insulting all the officers whose brains are the same as their caps?

                        We are not talking about all officers in general, but about the outright blockheads, of whom there are plenty.
                      7. -1
                        11 September 2025 12: 46
                        We're not talking about all officers in general,

                        And you reread yourself with that comment... it looks more like "everyone". It's worth refraining from such blunders, especially on such a forum.
                      8. 0
                        16 September 2025 06: 07
                        And if you take the Children's Encyclopedia, it says that the earth is round and space debris and damaging fragments fly in circles for years...
                2. +2
                  9 September 2025 07: 51
                  You don't need to read about this. You already have enough knowledge and holes, without this information. Keep punching holes... lol
                  1. +3
                    9 September 2025 17: 19
                    Interesting guys, aren't they? One will write something downright stupid, and fifteen more will sign it. hi
                  2. -1
                    10 September 2025 09: 35
                    Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                    You don't need to read about this. You already have enough knowledge and holes, without this information. Keep punching holes... lol

                    Of course, they made it up themselves.
                    1. +1
                      11 September 2025 05: 56
                      Of course, they made it up themselves.

                      You flatter me... Not everything you don't know was invented by me. lol
                      1. -1
                        11 September 2025 06: 18
                        Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                        Not everything you don't know is made up by me.

                        There are plenty of dreamers, you've noticed that correctly.
              2. 0
                10 September 2025 13: 44
                Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                I believe that "it's easier to destroy than to build" and we always have the option of having several killer satellites in opposite orbits, filled with tens of thousands of metal balls. An explosion of these satellites on command from Earth and the scattered shrapnel will sweep all the "Golden Domes" from orbit. And the resulting fragments will only complement the picture of the destruction of this system. And the main thing is to have time to blow it up... And it would be better to immediately warn all potential aggressors that for their high technologies in space, there is an ordinary "Russian club" according to L. Tolstoy. And let them first try to fight this club in space.


                Teach a materiel.
                All those who write about "seeding space" with fragments, debris, tungsten balls, nails, sand - are complete losers and ignoramuses....

                The volume of space between orbits of 300 and 600 km is 184 billion cubic kilometers.
                There are 1 cubic meters in one cubic kilometer.
                take a small nail weighing 1 gram and try to evenly place 1 nail in each cubic meter. That's 1 thousand tons. Now multiply that by 184 billion cubic kilometers...
                184 trillion tons? Isn't that right?
                Where on Earth would you get something like this and how would you lift it into orbit?

                Next, you need a collision..
                And what is a collision if not a difference in speeds?
                And what speeds are needed for different orbits and different collisions?
                And where do all sorts of satellites, debris, etc. go with an increase or decrease in speed? with a change in the vector of movement?
                Or are there still such ignoramuses who think, I’m going to pour a bucket of sand into space, this bucket will hang over Russia, and all the satellites that fly over our sky will crash into this sand and everything will be destroyed...
                Although....
                Seeing how many people write about such nonsense, it’s very scary how degraded everything has become.
                Although... Only those who were smart and degraded can degrade, and those who did not even try to be smart and cannot degrade. There is nowhere for him to go
                1. 0
                  11 September 2025 06: 07
                  And you are the smartest, but for some reason you started to count the entire volume of space that will have to be seeded with balls. Everything will be much simpler. It is enough to land "on the tail" or on a very close oncoming orbit such a killer satellite and on command scatter this pellet in a very limited space. And if it does not hit on the first oncoming orbit, then each pellet will have countless attempts if the target does not maneuver, having detected a threat. But it is unlikely that the satellites of the "Golden Dome" will have such a capability with detection and maneuver from space debris.
                  1. -3
                    12 September 2025 10: 43
                    Quote: Saburov_Alexander53
                    And you are the smartest, but for some reason you started to count the entire volume of space that will have to be seeded with balls. Everything will be much simpler. It is enough to land "on the tail" or on a very close oncoming orbit such a killer satellite and on command scatter this pellet in a very limited space. And if it does not hit on the first oncoming orbit, then each pellet will have countless attempts if the target does not maneuver, having detected a threat. But it is unlikely that the satellites of the "Golden Dome" will have such a capability with detection and maneuver from space debris.


                    After the word "counter orbit" - I understand that you are simply a loser...
                    And you don’t understand what you’re writing about at all.
                    How many satellites do you know that can fly in the direction of the earth's rotation?

                    about landing a satellite "on its tail"...
                    You seem to think that orbit is just like rails on earth, only in space?
                    Countless? About braking and gravity - you clearly know nothing.

                    Do you understand how many satellites there are already in the Starlink-Starshield System and how many there will be?

                    In general, to school - to study physics, astronomy...
                    1. +2
                      13 September 2025 09: 14
                      How many satellites do you know that can fly in the direction of the earth's rotation?

                      Software the overwhelming majority of satellites fly in the direction of the earth's rotation, even schoolchildren know this... I admit that you simply made a mistake here (misspoke), meaning AGAINST..
                      But then there are questions about your literacy.
                      Satellites are also launched into a "counter" orbit, but very rarely so far and exclusively for experimental purposes. But there is one country that is forced to do this when launching its satellites from its territory... it is Israel. Because there are other countries to the east and they will not allow rocket stages to fall on their territory. And Israel has to launch satellites towards the Mediterranean Sea or negotiate with Brazil or India for launches from their spaceports when it is necessary to put satellites into a normal orbit, i.e. in the direction of the Earth's rotation.
                      There are many satellites of different countries in near-polar orbits, i.e. flying through the poles, which gives its advantages for targeted monitoring of the earth's surface or for stable communication in these parts of the planet. And by the way, our future orbital station is planned to be launched into such a steep near-polar orbit, in order to optimize the time the station spends above its territory. And they do this deliberately, without taking into account the extra fuel costs for launching heavy segments of the station into orbit.
                      About "braking and gravity" in space... I wrote that spent satellites and all sorts of space debris hang out there for years and even decades without falling. It all depends on the orbital altitude and the lower it is, the faster everything will fall... but these are years, not days or months. And what's the point of launching the "Golden Dome" satellites into low orbits, so that they get there in a year or they should have a large supply of fuel on board to regularly correct the orbital altitude. This is about your literacy... I suggest you take a crash course together, since I will NEVER say that I know and understand everything about celestial mechanics. And therefore. I will NEVER pounce and accuse my interlocutor of illiteracy. It is simply impossible to know everything and I see that counter orbits are new to you... It happens, I myself learned about such things only about sixty years ago, when I was in school.
                      What confused you about my expression "put on the tail"? This is exactly what the US recently complained about, that one of our satellites of the "Cosmos" series was landed too close to the American. And they reasonably assumed that such a rapprochement threatens their satellite. But for now, there are still international norms in force that determine permissible distances in orbits. And for the geostationary orbit, there has long been a fierce struggle and competition between countries. There has long been a real cramped space there because of its uniqueness and inimitability.
                      And yes, I know the scale of Starlink and all other low-orbit groups in space. I love astronomy and have long been interested in the star map, where I can distinguish almost all the constellations of the Northern Hemisphere and a little worse in the Southern, although I have been beyond the equator many times and seen everything with my own eyes. I know not only the constellations themselves, but also the names of the stars in the most popular constellations. But I can’t know everything, and if you suggest something useful, without attacks and attacks, I will only be grateful.
                    2. 0
                      17 September 2025 00: 04
                      What does a hunter who shoots a duck hope for? Apparently, he is also a loser.
                      Shoots into the vast atmosphere of the earth at a tiny point.
                      And what's incredible: it hits!
          2. +2
            8 September 2025 15: 51
            Alas, it hasn't flown yet. It's been 16 years of development and not a single orbital flight. Only suborbital...
            1. 0
              10 September 2025 15: 16
              Quote: stankow
              Unfortunately, it hasn't flown yet. It's been 16 years of development and not a single orbital flight.

              What 16 years? The development of the Starship began in 2018. And the first prototype, Starhopper, "jumped" in 2019, 100 meters up, on one engine.
              Therefore 7 years development.
              1. +1
                12 September 2025 00: 00
                No, the sketch was presented to the public in 2010. And they themselves know how much work they had done before that. After all, the development of the project, the calculations, are even more important than the first welding.
                1. 0
                  12 September 2025 02: 04
                  stankow Well, what are you saying? What did they present a sketch of in 2010? Specifically?
                  Only in 2014 they presented something, namely a three-block, 9 raptors per block. Then there was BFR, a year later, if sclerosis does not change.
                  The SS/CX in its current form (more or less similar to what it is now) appeared in 2018.
                  Calculations can be done if there is a diagram of what exactly we are calculating. You can't calculate a spherical horse in a vacuum.
                  Otherwise, we can say that Korolev began developing the R-7 in his childhood (well, okay, in his youth), when he learned about Tsiolkovsky's formula. Only at first that R-7 looked completely different from the one that actually flew into orbit. Calculations, too, right? Forgive the irony.
                  1. 0
                    12 September 2025 10: 44
                    The mask is sooooo far from the Queen's pace wink
                2. 0
                  12 September 2025 02: 14
                  I called Starhopper a "prototype" above. I was hasty, obviously. It's not even a prototype yet, but a flying testbed, to be more precise. That is, by the time of the 100 m flight, the appearance of the rocket was still being thought out. Or rather, the ship. It's simpler with the booster, only the number of raptors varies.
          3. +1
            11 September 2025 01: 21
            Quote: Civil
            And how much they laughed and mocked 10 years ago here in over Musk.

            Well, on "VO" there is a general overabundance of "Uryakls", "made-by-Ukrainians" and "pipeline patriots" (forgive the irony, this is not out of malice, but out of frustration). They are simply not in the know. On specialized Internet resources, people have long recognized the fact that we are rapidly lagging behind not only the US, but also China. And not only in the space industry and science.
            In fact, in 35 years of the course to build a "great energy power" (25 of them - under the leadership of the "wisest of the wisest"!) what have we achieved? What are we leaders in, what are we proud of? Apart from the construction of a fleet of nuclear icebreakers, I can't even remember anything. The rest are complete failures and disgrace.
            Just don't tell me that it's even worse in the EU. Firstly, it's not worse, and secondly, the EU doesn't have the same natural resources as Russia. And thirdly, the EU doesn't have such a brilliant leader as we do! laughing
            Now about Starship. Musk's heavy reusable system is an absolute progress. We don't even have such a project. And we won't have it for a long time. But, even if we throw it out of the equation, the States and China have other options for launching large volumes of cargo into space. The world doesn't revolve around Musk's rocket - that's what I mean. It's not about a specific project, but about government policy. Driving resources abroad is one thing (and do you think why we need so many icebreakers?))). Developing science, technology, industry is another.
        2. +3
          9 September 2025 13: 56
          Quote: Puncher
          Especially for the scientist who, according to Musk, spat on the floor in front of him, expressing his contempt for his plans.

          Was it a scientist? Popular rumor attributes the spit to Rogozin or his subordinate. But Rogozin did not invent or design anything, he was only the sovereign's eye as a sergeant of the Preobrazhensky Regiment under the commanders and naval commanders of Peter the Great. Something like the former biathlete Shoigu under the commander Gerasimov. Wild pomposity, high-flown speeches, arrogant representative arrogance against the background of professional emptiness. I am currently working with an interesting customer. It turned out that at the beginning of the work, the instructions were given personally by the owner of the entire production. About 1% of the components were paid for, there was a full agreement on the payment procedure. But as soon as his director, an effective manager, intervened, the chicanery and distraction of engineers for a dressing down in front of junior accountants began. The same thing is happening with the Development of the Military-Industrial Complex in Russia when Putin and Mishustin, instead of directly communicating with engineers, attract an unnecessary intermediary in the form of Rogozin and Shoigu. On the other hand, Musk may have simply wanted to buy Russian developments on the cheap at domestic Russian prices. For example, I am offered complete documentation for CNC electrical discharge machining, stepper drives and an electrical discharge generator for 90 million rubles, subject to localization of production within Russia. Perhaps Musk very impulsively and passionately defended the idea that Russian bureaucrats-Stalinists, graduates of the Higher School of Economics, cannot be corrected and engineers should flee from them to the USA. His counterpart had a different opinion in his soul and, not finding reasonable arguments, spat to express the impossibility of convincing himself.
          1. +1
            10 September 2025 08: 17
            Quote: gsev
            Was it a scientist?

            It's not very clear who he was. Musk came to Russia to negotiate the purchase of two ICBMs taken off duty to deliver either seeds or something else light to Mars. The first day they got him drunk to the point of unconsciousness, and on the second day they went to some research institute or NPO (not specified) where he explained his plans for Mars and why he needed rockets. One of those present lost his temper and spat on his shoes, expressing his contempt. Again
            who exactly is not said, a scientist or an engineer (the latter is doubtful because who would send a simple engineer to the negotiations). And already on the plane returning home Musk said “I'm going to build my own rocket with blackjack and hookers”, and that's how the company SpaceX appeared/
            1. +1
              10 September 2025 16: 45
              Quote: Puncher
              who would send a simple engineer to negotiate).

              In Russia, the status of an engineer and a doctor is very much diminished compared to the USA, China, Tajikistan. Musk was interested in communicating with designers and engineers. He would have hired Rogozins, Manturovs and Sechins only as office plankton, and only for fun.
            2. +2
              11 September 2025 01: 59
              Hole puncher Spitting on the opponent's shoes (if the story is true) is a vile, savage act. But asking to sell an ICBM, even a decommissioned one, is also disrespectful to the Russians. As if they were Indians, ready to give everything for "fire water" (dollars). Musk was simply taken for an insolent CIA agent, I think. And they were outraged by such a crude game of "American intelligence". However, spitting, even on the floor - I repeat, is not good, it does not paint Russians in a good light in the eyes of other nations. And because of such idiots, our reputation suffers.
              But it wasn't because of this incident that Musk decided to build HIS rockets. He would have started it anyway.
              1. +1
                11 September 2025 05: 00
                Quote: MBRBS
                But asking to sell an ICBM, even a decommissioned one, is disrespectful to the Russians.

                Well, it was stupid from the start because the Russian Federation supports the "Missile Technology Control Regime". Officially, at least.
                Quote: MBRBS
                But it wasn't because of this incident that Musk decided to build HIS rockets. He would have started it anyway.

                I didn't come up with this myself, his biographer wrote it from his words. And his colleague who flew to Moscow with him confirms it. By the way, this decision was made with a hangover... Again, from their words.
              2. 0
                17 September 2025 00: 09
                This is how myths become almost true. Has anyone stood next to someone who spat?
        3. +2
          10 September 2025 20: 24
          A hole punch, what wild nonsense.
      2. man
        +1
        8 September 2025 20: 21
        Quote from: dmi.pris1
        No, it is important for domestic scientists involved in space.

        Not only for scientists... it is of the utmost importance for all our country... that's where we should have invested money... sad
      3. +1
        9 September 2025 08: 00
        Alas, we have fallen behind in space. Why did they make a former journalist the head of Roscosmos?
        1. +4
          9 September 2025 08: 21
          It's not about the journalist. Lavrenty Palych wasn't a nuclear scientist either, but under his leadership the country defended itself. The question is about the state structure of the country, and who is in charge of the mess that Russia is in.
          1. -1
            9 September 2025 14: 43
            Quote from: dmi.pris1
            Lavrenty Palych was not a nuclear scientist either, but under his leadership the country defended itself.

            Beria wasted human resources thoughtlessly. By the end of his life, the majority of schoolchildren had come to the conclusion that they should build a career as a bureaucrat-bureaucrat and sell themselves to girls as a hipster, and spend their youth on acquiring knowledge. Beria was also waging a mad fight against genetics, cybernetics, resonance theory in chemistry, and quantum physics. Mikoyano was inspired to betray Beria and take part in his execution when, during an attempt to conduct a campaign in the Ministry of Food Industry in the spirit of fighting resonance theory, all the leading food technologists listened to him and not one of them said a single word either in approval or in condemnation of Mikoyan's perky speech. At some point, the instinct of self-preservation kicks in in power and it begins to repress not ordinary engineers but effective managers. To Putin's credit, Shoigu and Rogozin were simply removed from their posts and not shot like Beria. Khrushchev quickly realized that it was not reasonable to shoot the seemingly all-powerful FSB guys. If Beria, who acted as Dulles' agent during his "splitting factor" operation, would have been shot, then Serov placed Penkovsky, a double agent of the CIA and British intelligence, in a position that allowed him to monitor the state of the missile and nuclear shield. Moreover, Serov did not give sanctions for the arrest of his relative and friend for a long time after the toptuns found out how Penkovsky was passing secrets to a British intelligence officer on the eve of the Anadyr operation. But Serov in retirement was as harmless to the USSR and Khrushchev as the executed Beria and Sudoplatov in Vladimir prison.
      4. -2
        10 September 2025 20: 23
        And why is it important for our scientists?
        1. 0
          11 September 2025 16: 25
          Think about it yourself. Personally, I think that we have been surpassed in space exploration and rocket systems not by a frame, but by a circle, and not just one. And scientists should not spit at Musk's feet, but move forward. And by leaps and bounds.
          1. 0
            12 September 2025 23: 41
            Dmi,

            The US has long since surpassed us in satellites and research. What does that have to do with SpaceX and Dillon Schmax?

            And what does spitting have to do with it? And who came up with this nonsense? You?
    2. 11+
      8 September 2025 10: 57
      Quote: lesya
      This news really doesn't matter now.
      Important.
      1) Starship is a fully reusable super-heavy launch vehicle, the first payload of which will not be ships to Mars, no, but Starlink V3 - the heaviest and most powerful satellites of the system. They can be used for military purposes, which is what the enemy is doing now in the NWO. By the way, even now, on lighter satellites launched by Falcon 9 (remember how we also laughed at this launch vehicle, but in 2024 it had 133 launches against our 17) Direct to Cell technology is being deployed, which allows providing communication to smartphones without prior modification. Ideal not only for tourists, but also for saboteurs, drones and mass protests.
      2) Starship can be used for suborbital delivery of heavy cargo, which has already attracted the interest of the military.
      3) We used to laugh at Falcon 9, now we are making its analogue - the partially reusable Soyuz-7 (Amur-SPG). The same will happen with Starship, the Chinese have already reworked the concept of their Changzheng-9 for Starship, and therefore we will really need the experience of testing and flying this LV.

      Starship will be brought to mind, it is only a matter of time. SpaceX has proven that it can implement complex projects. However, it will take several years. Moreover, there will still be accidents. If when creating conventional rockets, the result of development is a finished product, and the first launch can already be with satellites (although sometimes due to risks, mass-dimensional mock-ups of the payload are used). But the complexity of Starship and the new technologies that are used in it force the company to launch prototypes. This is not cheap, but without their development, Starship will never go into operation: if you test everything at once, then the accidents will never end.
      We are currently at iteration V2, the next test flight will also be on it, after that there will be V3, and then V4 - almost the final version. When switching to each version, there are risks of accidents, as was the case with the transition from V1 to V2. But, as you can see, SpaceX is not afraid of this. So we can expect "fireworks" and sarcastic comments from the couches, then, however, we will have to envy and catch up.
      1. -1
        11 September 2025 02: 15
        Quote: Infinity
        Now we on iteration V2, the next test flight will also be on it, after that there will be V3, and then V4

        Who are "we?
        So us "fireworks" and snide comments from the couches are still expected

        и
        We They used to laugh at Falcon 9, now here we go do its analogue is the partially reusable launch vehicle "Soyuz-7"

        You should decide who you work for. Learn the legend, finally! laughing
  2. +7
    8 September 2025 04: 23
    seamless global communication will become as common as running water and sewerage in developed countries. Russian officials who have been banning access to everything and everyone lately should remember this – soon they will be able to ban sunlight and precipitation with the same success.

    This worries me very much...progress in the country is artificially held back because of cave dinosaurs like these.
    I completely agree with the author's conclusions...in the civilian sphere, our space industry is lagging behind the West...the 90s and the failure with Buran are having an effect...our country lacks its own Korolev and Musk.
    1. -32
      8 September 2025 04: 53
      You are funny, Lyokha. To moan about space when the question is whether the people, the country, the Russian state and humanity as a whole will survive or not is absurd and childish. Here is a Chinese proverb for you on this subject - A journey of a thousand li begins with a single step. // Li is a unit of length equal to 500 meters.//
      Russia, by starting the SVO, declared its sovereignty. This was the first step. There will be others.
      Learn to respect your people, Lyokha. Especially when it's not you who are at the forefront of the fight, but your compatriots.
      1. 16+
        8 September 2025 05: 14
        Quote: lesya
        Learn to respect your people, Lyokha. Especially when it's not you who are at the forefront of the fight, but your compatriots.

        Where did you go. what
        My comment does not say a word about the people, the front line, or the SVO. belay
        You might as well reproach me for living on Mars to be completely happy. request
        Further on your points...
        Our people will survive...the state will grow stronger...this process is not quick.
        We will win the SVO...I won’t say when...I don’t know.
        China has its own history...we need to rely on the history of our ancestors and not repeat the mistakes they went through.
        I have never...I emphasize for you... never said anything bad about his people anywhere.
        On the contrary, I always said... that our people are the source of culture, knowledge, history, power... it is an entire civilization and a world for an inquisitive mind. hi
        Don't fantasize about me.
        1. -34
          8 September 2025 05: 20
          Well, you're a smart girl. And space will be ours, don't doubt it. Look how far the Russian Federation has come in 20 years. Remember how quickly after such a monstrous all-Patriotic war our Russian/Soviet people created the I. bomb, and were the first in the world to open space to humanity! Sputnik - 57, only 12 years after the war that destroyed the entire USSR up to the Urals. Gagarin - 61, only 16 years after this terrible war.
          1. +2
            8 September 2025 05: 28
            Here I agree with your comment. smile
            But 20 years is too short a period for historical assessment...one generation of people.
            We need to look further, at least 100 years ahead.
            I can clearly see what kind of children are growing up in our country... we need to pay more attention to their motivation... roughly speaking, create Korolevs, Gagarins, Tsiolkovskys and so on out of them already from the school bench, make them dreamers without any prohibitions... our future is in them. hi
          2. 33+
            8 September 2025 05: 31
            Sputnik and Gagarin are USSR, not RF. Feel the difference smile .
            1. -25
              8 September 2025 05: 44
              Agree that the Russian Federation is now, right now, on the right path. And the children who are growing up now no longer ask what the meaning of life is. We have a lost generation. These are those who were born in the 90s. But the generation of 2000s - they are ours. The children of my friends, born in the 90s, quickly disappeared from VKontakte right after the beginning of the Cold War. But the younger ones remained.
              1. 29+
                8 September 2025 05: 52
                The Russian Federation is now at a dead end. Instead of developing industrial capacities, an infrastructure for the export of non-renewable resources is being created and an urgent search for "friends" among third world countries is underway. Becoming a raw materials appendage of India is simply the highest level of skill.
                1. -16
                  8 September 2025 05: 55
                  I agree with you. Let's hope that this is a forced measure that can be recouped. What is needed now is a flow of money. And if India agrees to go against Trump, then honor and praise to it, even if it receives oil from the Russian Federation at cost.
                  1. 19+
                    8 September 2025 06: 04
                    What is needed now is a cash flow.

                    Watch the cartoon "The Golden Antelope".
                    First of all, it is necessary to re-evaluate the goals and methods of achieving them.
                    1. -12
                      8 September 2025 14: 56
                      Starship is a run into the past
                      the future belongs to detonation engines
                      sort of like the Korona RN from the Makeev Design Bureau, only scaled and with a detonation engine
                      total takeoff weight is only 400 tons, payload is 100 tons
                      the fuel is only 100 tons - and that's enough for 2 trips to orbit without refueling
                      and by the way, vertical landing on supports
                      Energomash has already created a prototype in iron with a thrust of 20 tons and a fuel consumption 20 times less than liquid rocket engines - and by the way, the Americans are also keeping up
                      and Musk with his projects is a lame horse
                      1. +4
                        8 September 2025 15: 39
                        starship is a run into the past future for detonation engines

                        Maybe, but the wiki article is clearly an advertising one, which is alarming. It is not an inertial drive or an Em drive, but it is very similar to the Gulia super flywheel, it seems to have a rational grain, but there are big difficulties in implementation. At first glance, I see a problem in the strength of the combustion chambers, they have large impulse loads against the background of high temperatures, in such conditions metals do not work for a long time.
                      2. -6
                        8 September 2025 16: 12
                        the detonator has a ring chamber in the chamber, with a small gap, combustion, where there is no combustion as such - only ringed detonation waves
                        there is no combustion, not even vibrations, the detonation speed is 4000 meters per second for deciline, and for octogen fuel it is already up to 12000 meters per second
                        specific impulse 12000 SI
                        on decilin at UI 4000 = consumption 150 kg/sec = 600 tons
                        exit to LEO takes about 4 minutes per 0,5 orbit trajectory
                        about 36 tons there and 36 back = 72 tons out of 100 tons
                        and Musk's Raptors only have 327 SI and 3300 tons of fuel burn into the void
                      3. +1
                        8 September 2025 16: 44
                        only looped detonation waves

                        All in all, detonation waves with pressure at the front of hundreds of MPa...
                        Experimental determination of instantaneous temperatures and pressures in the shock wave front region is very difficult, but modeling can determine the order.
                        Zbrodina E.A., Orlov Yu.N., Soloviev V.O. Modeling of detonation propagation in a cylindrical channel //
                        Preprints of IPM im. M.V.Keldysh. 2018. No. 180. 14 p. http://library.keldysh.ru/preprint.asp?id=2018-180
                        and on top of that
                        C. Mader Numerical Modeling of Detonation
                        https://ancient.hydro.nsc.ru/biblio/eq/mader_1985.pdf
                      4. -8
                        8 September 2025 16: 49
                        I don't really want to get into these details,
                        I just see that everything works at Energomash
                        They also scale the engine and switch to a higher energy source with higher UI, SI, thrust, and lower fuel consumption
                        and Musk has 3 thousand 300 tons and another 100 tons to LEO
                  2. +2
                    8 September 2025 06: 05
                    Turkey and Bangladesh only nuclear power plants for Russian money or also honor and praise in addition belay ?
                    India is a member of the Commonwealth, by the way.
                    1. -8
                      8 September 2025 07: 39
                      You want everything at once. It doesn't happen that way. Were you already of a conscious age in the 90s, or had you already emigrated from Russia and don't know what they were like?
                      If you don't know, then look through the blogs. And look at the post-Soviet period of the Russian Federation in dynamics - how it was after the collapse of the USSR, and how it became. History is a process. It must be seen in dynamics. And you take one point and start wailing.
                      1. 13+
                        8 September 2025 08: 21
                        Quote: lesya
                        It does not happen.

                        Just compare the achievements of the USSR 25 years after its emergence (i.e. 1922-1947) and the achievements of the Russian Federation 25 years after Putin's rule. The USSR, starting from a country torn apart by civil war, impoverished - a powerful industrial superpower that overthrew Nazi Germany, two years later - testing an atomic bomb
                        bombs. RF...
                      2. -16
                        8 September 2025 08: 31
                        That is, you blame Putin for everything. The funny thing is that in this accusation you completely coincide with the haters of Russia in the West. They think that Putin should be killed, and then all the questions for the West will be removed - the resources of the Russian Federation will fall into their greedy paws. So that you understand, they plan to pass the people of the Russian Federation through filtration camps, having first taken away their children and sent these children to special boarding schools. Does this remind you of anything?
                        Maybe in that case we should stop whining and unite around the country's leadership? Once again, if you were not of conscious age in the 90s, then ask your grandmothers about what was happening then.
                      3. 16+
                        8 September 2025 08: 48
                        Quote: lesya
                        So, you blame Putin for everything.

                        Please, don't jump from one topic to another. I understand, of course, childish spontaneity and all that.
                        But I have offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the rates of development of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. After that, please answer the question - is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?
                      4. -17
                        8 September 2025 09: 03
                        In my opinion, you are the one who is direct in your ignorance of the topic. Moreover, as far as I understand, you are far from a child, but rather a grandfather, who is far behind life and stuck in the times of his youth. You decided to compare China with the Russian Federation, like the rates of development are oh so different.
                        Do you know the history of these differences? Or are you just making this up out of thin air, just to scare and belittle the Russian Federation? I won't lecture you here. I'll just say that I know first-hand about China, what happened there during the Cultural Revolution, what happened on Tiananmen Square, and what's happening there now. And you figure it out for yourself. Just by comparing the Russian Federation and China to the disadvantage of the Russian Federation, you've demonstrated that you're completely out of touch.
                        It's also childish to compare the Russian Federation and the USSR. It also shows that you're out of the loop.
                      5. 16+
                        8 September 2025 09: 24
                        Quote: lesya
                        Do you know the history of these differences?

                        Worse still, I not only know the history, I also know the economics of these differences.
                        :) And I know very well why the Russian Federation in its current state is not capable of showing anything except stagnation. It is also absolutely obvious to me that without, I am not afraid of this word, revolutionary changes in the methods of state governance of the country, we will not get out of the dead end we have reached.
                        Putin doesn't even realize the need for such changes. And it is his leadership, or more precisely, his inability to select competent leaders, that has led us into a dead end.
                      6. man
                        +5
                        8 September 2025 21: 30
                        What patience you have... hellish... I would have lost my temper long ago... laughing hi
                      7. 0
                        8 September 2025 23: 32
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Putin doesn't even realize the need for such changes. And it is his leadership, or more precisely, his inability to select competent leaders, that has led us into a dead end.

                        Everyone is still partners. Surprising. Not seeing Russia's strategic lag is no less surprising.
                      8. +3
                        9 September 2025 13: 42
                        "Putin doesn't even realize the need for such changes"///
                        ---
                        Putin came to power 25 years ago with the concept of an "energy superpower." And he has been stubbornly trying to implement this concept ever since.
                        An energy superpower, plus a Eurasian vector in politics (instead of a European one) are the two unshakable pillars of his long reign.
                        You can probably see the result.
                      9. +1
                        8 September 2025 16: 15
                        Totally agree with you.
                        China, for all its economic might, is dependent on the West for critical technologies.
                        Russia acts as an antipode to the West, a kind of guarantor that China will not be put in a bad way, it guarantees China the possibility of sovereignty
                        The Chinese were unable to make a missile warning system; Russia did it for them.
                        Russia is really the only country capable of effectively confronting the West and guaranteeing stability.
                        The realities of geopolitics, however.
                      10. -10
                        8 September 2025 09: 11
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the development rates of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the development rates of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025.

                        You suggested comparing incomparable quantities. As trolling it will do, as a real exercise for the mind - well, it's not much of an exercise.
                      11. +7
                        8 September 2025 09: 25
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        You suggested comparing incomparable quantities

                        Why then are they suddenly incomparable?
                      12. -5
                        8 September 2025 09: 36
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Why then are they suddenly incomparable?

                        By definition. Initial conditions are different, accompanying conditions are different...

                        How to compare, for example, two racing drivers? Yes, arrange a race, on identical (or at least the same class) cars. Whoever wins is the best... well, probably laughing

                        This is a correct comparison.

                        And you propose to compare the results of different classes of cars, under different initial conditions, in different, um, weather conditions... and draw a conclusion on the professional suitability of the racers based on such a comparison. This, excuse me, is unscientific.
                      13. +5
                        8 September 2025 09: 40
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        By definition. Initial conditions are different, accompanying conditions are different...

                        Excuse me, but what is it that prevents us from assessing the impact of differences - religion? Russia had a lot of positive factors that China did not have and vice versa. And with your logic, it is impossible to compare any country with another, they are different...
                      14. -7
                        8 September 2025 09: 45
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Excuse me, but does religion interfere with assessing the impact of differences?

                        The thing is that each "evaluate" reduces the objectivity of the final evaluation. And the result is what you personally like.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        with your logic it is impossible to compare any country with another, they are different...

                        You are not comparing cars, you are asking to evaluate the "racer" laughing

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        After this, please take the trouble to answer the question: is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?

                        And this is absolutely unscientific. But the trolling is good, my compliments Yes
                      15. +7
                        8 September 2025 10: 33
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        The thing is that each "evaluate" reduces the objectivity of the final evaluation. And the result is what you personally like.

                        Excuse me, but you are now engaging in sophistry. It goes without saying that with additional variables, the influence of which must be taken into account, the accuracy of the comparison decreases. But your postulate that such a comparison is impossible and not scientific is obviously wrong. You are now exaggerating - according to you, it turns out that comparing two countries is obviously not scientific. But this is not so. Less accuracy does not mean impossibility.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        You are not comparing cars, you are asking to evaluate the "racer"

                        They are a little bit related.
                      16. -6
                        8 September 2025 10: 48
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        according to you, it turns out that comparing two countries is obviously not scientific

                        Not so. Comparing the results achieved by two countries, by comparable criteria - It is possible and necessary. Trying to evaluate the adequacy of the leadership of these same countries, based on such a comparison, even for the same period, is unscientific. Different initial conditions, different goals... everything is different.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        You are not comparing cars, you are asking to evaluate the "racer"

                        They are a little bit related.

                        Undoubtedly. But even this simple phrase can be interpreted in two ways: the stress on the first and second words gives polarly different meanings.

                        I repeat: you cannot compare the incomparable.
                      17. +5
                        8 September 2025 11: 29
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Compare the results achieved by two countries using comparable criteria

                        There are no such criteria in your logic. They are all different for you:)))
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Trying to assess the adequacy of the leadership of these same countries, based on such a comparison, even for the same period, is unscientific.

                        This is a false statement. Quite scientifically. Any comparison is ideal when two absolutely similar systems with only one different feature are compared. If several features are different, and only one (management effectiveness) needs to be compared, then the influence of other features is derived through factor analysis.
                      18. -5
                        8 September 2025 11: 39
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        There are no such criteria in your logic. They are all different for you:)))

                        Well, why not? There are generally accepted criteria, and you know it... and so do I. laughing

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        If several features differ, and only one (management effectiveness) needs to be compared, then the influence of other features is derived through factor analysis

                        OK. Given: two identical cars, the weather is the same, the road surface is ideal in both cases. One car is stuck in a kilometer-long traffic jam, the other one is driving freely. Compare the skill of the drivers based on the distance traveled by the cars in an hour, say.

                        If it works out, I'll make the task a little more difficult. Yes
                      19. +2
                        8 September 2025 12: 45
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Compare the skill of drivers based on the distance traveled by cars in an hour, say.

                        Answer: Since movement is impossible for reasons beyond the driver’s control, there are no grounds to consider his qualifications lower than those of the person who was driving.
                        However, it is necessary to check whose fault it was that the driver ended up in a traffic jam. If it was his own, then additional analysis is required.
                      20. -1
                        8 September 2025 14: 31
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Answer: Since movement is impossible for reasons beyond the driver's control, there are no grounds to consider his qualifications lower than those of the driver who was driving.

                        Accepted.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        However, it is necessary to check whose fault it was that the driver ended up in a traffic jam. If it was his own, then additional analysis is required.

                        Who will judge - whose fault is it?

                        Second example: a tank at a tankodrome, and a Formula 1 racer. Both completed a lap, which of them is better?
                      21. +3
                        8 September 2025 14: 49
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Who will judge - whose fault is it?

                        I. If both drivers had the right to choose a route from several, if for each driver a number of options led to a traffic jam, if the driver had the knowledge to guess about the presence of a traffic jam, then the one who got into the traffic jam is worse.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Second example: a tank at a tankodrome, and a Formula 1 racer. Both completed a lap, which of them is better?

                        We evaluate by the required time to complete a lap. If both have met the standard, then - let's say the tanker completed it in 0 of the standard time, and the racer in 95, then the tanker is better
                      22. -2
                        8 September 2025 15: 20
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Me: If both drivers had the right to choose a route from several, if for each driver a number of options led to a traffic jam...

                        This is not true. The problem statement does not state that both are driving from point A to point B, that would be too simple. Two cars, different routes, different road conditions. The solution... well, so-so Yes

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        We evaluate by the required time to complete a lap. If both have met the standard, then - let's say the tanker completed it in 0 of the standard time, and the racer in 95, then the tanker is better

                        The racer has no standard time. So who is better? what

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        If several features differ, and only one (management effectiveness) needs to be compared, then the influence of other features is derived through factor analysis
                      23. +2
                        8 September 2025 15: 59
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Two cars, different routes, different road conditions.

                        There is such a concept - relevance. Everything you wrote is irrelevant to the condition. It does not matter where they were going, the length of the route is not important. It is only important that one was driving, and the other was standing, and it is important to what extent the actions of the standing driver affected the result.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        The solution... well, so-so.

                        I'm afraid your remark shows your incompetence as a judge.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        The racer has no standard time.

                        Yes. It always exists, and even if the norm is not written down anywhere, it is easily derived from competition statistics, or determined by calculation.
                        You see, you're talking to an economist. And we're taught to compare anything to anything, so it wouldn't be too hard for me to compare Einstein's theory of relativity to Marilyn Monroe's ass.
                        And yes, strictly scientifically laughing
                      24. -1
                        8 September 2025 17: 02
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        There is such a concept - relevance

                        I know this word too.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Everything you wrote is irrelevant to the condition.

                        What, whose - condition? Don't complicate it laughing

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        It doesn't matter where they were going, the length of the route doesn't matter. What matters is that one was driving and the other was standing, and it matters how much the actions of the standing driver affected the result.

                        Everything is absolutely wrong.

                        Two identical cars, in different road conditions, under identical weather conditions, are driving along... it's simple, isn't it? Well, and compare the skill of the drivers, by the length of the path traveled by the cars during this time. This, by the way, is very similar to what you suggested above -

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You can also compare the development rates of China and Russia in 2000-2025.

                        But the example with cars is simpler Yes

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        we were taught to compare anything with anything

                        Well, compare. Driver qualifications in the example above. Everything is simplified to the limit. request
                      25. -1
                        8 September 2025 17: 18
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        What, whose - condition?

                        Your
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Everything is absolutely wrong.

                        That's exactly it for your example.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Two identical cars, in different road conditions, under the same weather conditions, are driving...

                        Sorry, but you gave the conditions in which one goes and the other stands. If you want to change the conditions, I don't mind, but that will be another task. Let's figure this out:)))
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Well, compare then.

                        Compared and gave an answer. In this problem, except for the case I mentioned, the conditions do not allow considering the qualification of the standing driver lower than the one who was driving. The exception is described by me above.
                      26. -1
                        8 September 2025 18: 08
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Sorry, but you gave the conditions in which one goes and the other stands

                        Hm. Stuck in a traffic jam - means it's moving. But not fast. Traffic jams don't last forever.

                        Andrey, if you want to play with words, I can do that too, but it’s boring.

                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Two identical cars, in different road conditions, under identical weather conditions, are driving along... it's simple, isn't it? Well, and compare the skill of the drivers, by the length of the path traveled by the cars during this time. This, by the way, is very similar to what you suggested above -

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You can also compare the development rates of China and Russia in 2000-2025.


                        But the example with cars is simpler

                        Are the conditions clear? Is the analogy clear? Everything seems to be fine request
                      27. +1
                        8 September 2025 20: 10
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Hm. It's stuck in a traffic jam - it means it's moving. But not fast.

                        I understood you exactly that it is worth it. But if you see it that way - please. This does not change the essence of my answer.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Are the conditions clear? Is the analogy clear?

                        The conditions are clear, the analogy is clear too. Now let's go through it.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Two identical cars, in different road conditions, under identical weather conditions, are driving along... it's simple, isn't it? Well, and compare the skill of the drivers, by the length of the path traveled by the cars during this time.

                        In this case, there is no direct relationship between the route traveled and the skill of the drivers. For the simple reason that one driver encountered a factor that hindered his work (a traffic jam), and the second did not. Therefore, in order to compare their skill, it is necessary to evaluate the impact of the traffic jam factor on the speed of the route and evaluate the cause of this factor. This is an absolutely scientific approach, factor analysis, it is called:))))
                        And if we find out that the traffic jam is completely or partially caused by the carelessness of the driver (let's say he left during rush hour, although he could have left earlier, given that traffic jams during rush hour are more than predictable), and the second driver, being in the same conditions, showed foresight and did not get stuck in the traffic jam, then the second driver is obviously more professional.
                        I can't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.
                        The influence of factors that affected the Chinese economy but did not affect the Russian economy in 2000-2025 and vice versa is analyzed in a similar manner.
                        And more
                        You write
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Well, and compare the skill of the drivers, by the length of the path traveled by the cars during this time. This, by the way, is very similar to what you suggested above

                        This is not similar to what I suggested above. I suggested
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But I have offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the rates of development of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. After that, please answer the question - is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?

                        After this - does not mean on the basis of this. I have never suggested evaluating the quality of the country's leadership solely on the rate of development of the country's economy. I suggested first evaluating the rate, and then the leadership
                      28. 0
                        8 September 2025 20: 25
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        After this - does not mean on the basis of this

                        Ahem. Allow me to doubt:

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Just compare the achievements of the USSR 25 years after its emergence (i.e. 1922-1947) and the achievements of the Russian Federation 25 years after Putin's rule. The USSR, starting from a country torn apart by civil war, impoverished - a powerful industrial superpower, having defeated fascist Germany, two years later - testing an atomic bomb. The Russian Federation...

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the rates of development of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. Thereafter Please take the trouble to answer the question: is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?

                        And after all this, of course, your "after this" means exactly the sequence of actions. Well, so that the opponent does not accidentally confuse, of course Yes
                      29. +2
                        8 September 2025 20: 45
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Ahem. Allow me to doubt:

                        As much as you like. However, I meant exactly what I had and what I am talking about now. Yes, I am not posting a manual where the analysis methodology will be described in detail, but I am always ready to answer clarifying questions if anyone has them.
                        Sapienti sat - "it's enough for the smart one". Everyone will understand it to the best of their intellect, for some it will be enough to refer to the growth rate, for others it will be enough to look at the accompanying circumstances.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        And after all this, of course, your “after this” means precisely the sequence of actions.

                        Where do you see a contradiction in this?
                      30. +2
                        8 September 2025 21: 20
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Where do you see a contradiction in this?

                        Well, let's assume that I don't see any contradictions. laughing

                        But if you hadn't specifically explained it twice, I would have decided that your "after that" meant "based on the above". Well, it's an axiom: the USSR developed quickly and correctly because it had good leadership. And the Russian Federation is developing slowly and incorrectly only and precisely because its leadership is bad... you've disappointed me a little, I must admit.

                        Thank you, I wanted to hear it. hi
                      31. 0
                        8 September 2025 21: 29
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        But if you hadn’t specifically explained this twice, I would still have decided that your “after this” meant “based on the above.”

                        That is the case, it is just not a direct relationship. If you look at the growth rates, the Russian Federation is losing out to both the USSR and China. If you look at the factors and circumstances that cause this to happen, it is absolutely clear that the key reason is precisely the ineffective leadership of the Russian Federation.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        You've disappointed me a little, I must admit.

                        Well, I didn't have the goal of charming you:)))))
                      32. +1
                        8 September 2025 21: 34
                        good laughing good

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        That's exactly how it is based on... the key reason is precisely the ineffective leadership of the Russian Federation

                        Then we return to our example with two cars.

                        The first one is driving in a traffic jam (it has been driving like that since the start, well, it just happened that way, the stars were aligned that way), the second one is also driving, but on a relatively free road.

                        Everything else - the cars themselves, the weather, the time of day - everything is the same.

                        Task: determine the professional suitability of both drivers based on the distance traveled by the vehicles Yes laughing
                      33. 0
                        8 September 2025 21: 38
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Then we return to our example with two cars.

                        You still haven't understood what I'm writing to you. It's a pity.
                      34. 0
                        8 September 2025 21: 41
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You still haven't understood what I'm writing to you. It's a pity.

                        I realized that you can even compare shoes with cucumbers. But for some reason you don't want to show how you do it.
                      35. -1
                        8 September 2025 22: 13
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        But for some reason you don’t want to show how you do it.

                        I showed you using your example, and below I explain to Dmitry using the example of the USSR and the Russian Federation, the Russian Federation and China. So I don’t know what else you need.
                      36. +1
                        8 September 2025 22: 15
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I showed you using your example.

                        It so happened that you did not quite correctly understand my example. I have already given a corrected one, which, it seems to me, is not interpreted in two ways.

                        What you took as an example is not what I offered you. request
                      37. -1
                        8 September 2025 22: 16
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        It so happened that you did not quite understand my example correctly.

                        And I answered you that this amendment does not change anything, and I showed why.
                      38. 0
                        8 September 2025 22: 26
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        this amendment does not change anything, and showed why

                        And they reduced everything to a revision of the terms of the problem Yes

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And if we find out that the traffic jam is completely or partially caused by the carelessness of the driver (say, he left during rush hour, although he could have left earlier, given that traffic jams during rush hour are more than predictable), and the second driver, being in the same conditions, showed foresight and did not get stuck in the traffic jam, then the second driver is obviously more professional.

                        The task was, let me remind you:

                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        One car is stuck in a kilometer-long traffic jam, the other one is driving freely.

                        These are called initial conditions. Revising them somehow... is not accepted. Yes

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And I answered you

                        No. That is, they answered, but to the question they kindly asked themselves. Fail. request
                      39. -3
                        9 September 2025 06: 56
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        And they reduced everything to a revision of the terms of the problem

                        No revisions. There is a factor - a traffic jam, and I suggested analyzing its occurrence from the point of view of the ability of the driver who got into it to avoid it. For some reason this turned out to be unscientific, and in general - ugh laughing
                      40. +3
                        9 September 2025 09: 09
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        No revisions

                        A and B were sitting on the pipe. This is the condition of the problem. You started to solve another problem - "how and why B got on the pipe". This is a revision, aka substitution, of the subject of discussion. A well-known demagogic device.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        For some reason it turned out to be unscientific and generally - ugh

                        Well, I talked about this at the very beginning:

                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        trolling is good, my compliments

                        Rondo, rondo form... beloved since childhood Yes

                        And I really wanted to see how you would compare boots with cucumbers... and -

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And yes, strictly scientifically

                        But apparently it wasn't meant to be request laughing
                      41. -4
                        9 September 2025 10: 11
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        A and B were sitting on the pipe. This is the condition of the problem. You started to solve another problem - "how and why B got on the pipe". This is a revision, aka substitution, of the subject of discussion. A well-known demagogic device.

                        Let's clarify. I proposed a task - to evaluate the effectiveness of the Russian Federation's leadership. As a first step in solving this task, I proposed comparing the rates of economic growth of the Russian Federation, the USSR, and China.
                        You mistakenly assumed that I propose to evaluate the leadership of the Russian Federation solely by the rate of economic growth, without taking into account the difference in starting and other conditions. Based on this mistaken assumption of yours, you made a false analogy - you proposed to evaluate the skill of drivers without taking into account the traffic jam factor, which affected one, but did not affect the other.
                        I explained my position to you and you accepted it - you did not find anywhere in my demand to take into account the effectiveness of the Russian Federation's leadership exclusively based on the rate of economic growth.
                        But at the same time, you manage not to admit the falsity of your analogy, and even reproach me for changing the conditions of the problem.
                        While I am simply making a correct analogy out of your false analogy.
                        I won't accuse you of demagogy - for now I sincerely hope that we are talking about a misunderstanding
                      42. +5
                        9 September 2025 10: 28
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You mistakenly assumed that I propose to evaluate the Russian leadership solely by the rate of economic growth, without taking into account the difference in starting and other conditions

                        Hm. You formulated the task for your opponent as follows:

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the development rates of China and Russia in 2000-2025.. After this, please take the trouble to answer the question - is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?

                        Not a word more. None of the additional conditions that you just described in such detail.

                        Naturally, I was considering this very problem. I can't read minds... and I'm not supposed to, really.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I'm just making a correct analogy out of your false analogy

                        You make an analogy that is convenient for you, thereby changing the conditions of the problem. Which analogy, by the way, is to your problem (about 2000-2025) is absolutely not suitable - in 2000, the Russian Federation was already "stuck in a traffic jam". And it was not Putin who brought it there.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I won't accuse you of demagogy - for now I sincerely hope that we are talking about a misunderstanding

                        I haven't accused you of anything yet either. I just pointed out that you were using, um, a not entirely correct technique in the discussion. Nothing more. Yes
                      43. -3
                        9 September 2025 11: 18
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Not a word more. None of the additional conditions that you just described in such detail.

                        And it shouldn't. Because it seems obvious that a comparison based solely on growth rates would not be correct.
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Naturally, I was considering this very problem. I can't read minds... and I'm not supposed to, really.

                        And no one is forcing you. You misunderstood me and drew an analogy that seemed correct to you. Everything is fine here and there can be no claims against you. The only thing that is unclear is why you continue to insist on it now.
                      44. +6
                        9 September 2025 18: 10
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        It seems obvious that a comparison based solely on growth rates will not be correct

                        A vague statement of the task entails its incorrect execution. This is ABC. The task is always executed as is, what was written (signed) is what you received. This is also ABC. No one is obliged to guess what is obvious to you and what is not.

                        We come to the conclusion that you either failed to formulate the problem (which is unlikely), or tried to manipulate a little... well, it happens to everyone, it's nothing, right? Yes

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You misunderstood me.

                        Once again, I solved exactly the problem that you formulated.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The only thing that is unclear is why you continue to insist on it now.

                        Phew. This is boring already. For the ninth time - changing the conditions of a problem in the process of solving it is a bad technique, and it is called badly... well, you probably know that Yes
                      45. -4
                        9 September 2025 18: 23
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Once again, I solved exactly the problem that you formulated.

                        I see. You don't know how to admit your mistakes. Good luck.
                      46. +6
                        9 September 2025 18: 52
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I see. You don't know how to admit your mistakes. Goodbye.

                        It seemed to me that you are the one who doesn't know how to admit your... well, okay, good luck laughing
                      47. -1
                        9 September 2025 13: 55
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        If we look at the factors and circumstances due to which this is happening, it is absolutely clear that the key reason is precisely the ineffective leadership of the Russian Federation.


                        Definitely not. This is not a purely management problem, but a deeper one. And the effectiveness of something, although it plays a role, is still secondary. The main thing is motivation and interests. In whose interests is something happening?
                        As a rule, this is determined by class interests. Well, so what if the growth rate in the Russian Federation is lower. But those who are a privileged class or estate now have definitely more perks than in Soviet times, even in conditions of such modest growth. And these gentlemen definitely do not want to change the existing state of affairs. Space exploration? Why the hell do they need it, the owners of villas and yachts do not particularly bother with them. Especially they do not want to pay for all this. And taxes from the poor are too modest to pay for expensive space projects.
                      48. -1
                        8 September 2025 13: 11
                        How to compare, for example, two racing drivers? Yes, arrange a race, on identical (or at least the same class) cars. Whoever wins is the best... well, probably laughing
                        and in life it's like this - everyone competes with everyone else, whoever is ahead of everyone else is the best. And something always gets in the way of a bad dancer. The reformers of the twilight of the USSR were hindered by the national republics, that they say we'll get rid of all the Kazakhs and Ukrainians and fence off the West fool
                      49. -3
                        8 September 2025 13: 18
                        Quote from alexoff
                        And something always gets in the way of a bad dancer

                        For example, at the moment you are hindered by a lack of understanding of the issue under discussion. Goodbye hi
                      50. +2
                        8 September 2025 19: 39
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        You suggested comparing incomparable quantities

                        Why then are they suddenly incomparable?

                        Pardon me, of course, for interfering in your dialogue, but colleague "Paranoid62 (Roman)" is absolutely right - the values ​​you proposed are really incomparable with no matter what pair you compare them with, even USSR = RF, even China = RF.
                        The USSR was a planned economy. In addition, (if we speak very conditionally) for the uniform development of the regions of the USSR, its industrial potential was spread across the territory of the union, and when producing some (conditionally) TV or car horn, subcontractors were located in different republics. Roughly speaking, headlights were brought from the Baltics, wheels from Yaroslavl, electrical wires from Kazakhstan, lamps from Kyrgyzstan, upholstery and glass from Uzbekistan, and engines from Ukraine. With the collapse of the USSR, all these technological chains and economic ties were disrupted, destroyed and screwed up. Plus, the young reformers quite deliberately destroyed factories in Russia itself, about which Chubais spoke in the following vein: "Every closed factory is a nail in the coffin of communism."
                        In order to restore something and localize production in full, desire alone is not enough, you need money, but by the 2000s, Russia came with an empty pocket and debts, having barely survived the default + it was obliged to pay off the joint debt of the USSR for all the union republics. And thanks to the fact that the main punk Yavlinsky pushed through a law on the distribution of income received from the sale of energy resources, their lion's share began to go to foreign companies, and almost all deposits were crushed by foreign companies. Why were you going to conduct new industrialization and rebuild factories? During this same period, if you forgot, Russia waged 2 wars on its territory. Can you refute this and continue to claim that the conditions were almost the same?
                        As for the comparison with China, unlike Russia, it did not get into perestroika with the collapse of the entire economy and a move to the market, but developed according to the formula - "planned economy + private initiative", in addition, mattresses, having assessed its capabilities in terms of providing cheap labor, themselves moved their production there and invested a lot of money, making it a world factory and to claim that China developed thanks exclusively and only to its economic genius is wrong. Mattresses themselves played a huge role in the breakthrough development of its economy, which is now regretted.
                        So, just like that, to make claims that Russia has achieved nothing in 25 years and that nothing prevented it from keeping up with the same China is not at all comme il faut. hi
                      51. +4
                        8 September 2025 20: 20
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        The USSR was a planned economy. In addition, (if we speak very conditionally) for the uniform development of the regions of the USSR, its industrial potential was spread across the territory of the union and when producing some (conditionally) TV or car horn, subcontractors were located in different republics. Roughly speaking, headlights were brought from the Baltics, wheels from Yaroslavl, electrical wires from Kazakhstan, lamps from Kyrgyzstan, upholstery and glass from Uzbekistan, and engines from Ukraine. With the collapse of the USSR

                        Excuse me, but what are you even talking about now?:)))))))
                        I suggested comparing the USSR in the period 1922-1947 and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. What kind of planned economy in 1922? What other engines in Ukraine, when we had no engine production at all?
                        That's the joke, that the USSR, having in its base
                        1) the collapsed industry of tsarist Russia, which even in 1913 was a very sad sight. That is, a lot of things (including machine tools and many other means of production) were not produced in the Russian Empire at all. Never. And there was no experience
                        2) Extreme weakness of personnel - the population is mostly uneducated peasantry, and we need to make an industrial revolution. There is nothing - no engineers in sufficient numbers, no skilled workers - even those who were in 1913, who fell on the fields of WWI, who went into civilian life, who retrained for administrative positions, etc.
                        3) Complete lack of experience in public administration. The planned economy had yet to be born.
                        And compare this with the Russian Federation base in 2000 - masses of industrial enterprises, first-class higher education, many qualified personnel, etc., etc.
                      52. +3
                        8 September 2025 21: 38
                        [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk]Excuse me, but what are you even talking about now?:)))))))
                        I suggested comparing the USSR in the period 1922-1947 and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. What kind of planned economy in 1922? What other engines in Ukraine, when we had no engine production at all?[/quote]
                        What I'm actually talking about is what follows from your quote below, in which the time frames you specified are not visible, or is this not your quote?
                        [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk]This is not similar to what I suggested above. I suggested
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But I offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the rates of development of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. After that, please answer the question - is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?[/quote]
                        Do you see the parameters of 1922-1947 in it? No, I don't. I assume that in terms of the comparison Russia=China you had no complaints and you did admit that the conditions of development in the period 2000-2025 were different for China and Russia?
                        [quote=Andrey from Chelyabinsk]That's the joke, that the USSR, having in its base
                        1) the collapsed industry of tsarist Russia, which even in 1913 was a very sad sight. That is, a lot of things (including machine tools and many other means of production) were not produced in the Russian Empire at all. Never. And there was no experience
                        2) Extreme weakness of personnel - the population is mostly uneducated peasantry, and we need to make an industrial revolution. There is nothing - no engineers in sufficient numbers, no skilled workers - even those who were in 1913, who fell on the fields of WWI, who went into civilian life, who retrained for administrative positions, etc.
                        No, well, there is no point in arguing here, that's how it was. The solution to those problems was not simple and undoubtedly goes to the Bolsheviks' piggy bank, however, you again do not take into account that the methods of inspiring the masses to a production breakthrough were, to put it mildly, not entirely democratic, and you, perhaps, with your desire for revolutionary changes, at that time would have quite successfully dug the White Sea Canal, or cut down trees on the railway line towards the Vorkuta coals, only not on pure enthusiasm, but under escort. You then, and even now, would not have voluntarily gone to Kolyma to take part in the construction of some gold refining plant. What is the point of a convoy and Kolyma? Well, actually, the conditions were different then and now, as are the methods for solving global problems then and now. Therefore, in order not to plagiarize, I will finish my comment with a phrase from a colleague
                        [quote=Paranoid62]You suggested comparing incomparable quantities. As trolling it will do, as a real exercise for the mind - well, so-so exercise.[/quote]
                      53. +1
                        8 September 2025 22: 11
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        What I'm actually talking about is what follows from your quote below, in which the time frames you specified are not visible.

                        If you decide to enter into a discussion, why not study how it started?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Just compare the achievements of the USSR 25 years after its emergence (i.e. 1922-1947) and the achievements of the Russian Federation 25 years after Putin’s rule.

                        Then I said what you already quoted and did not repeat the time period as I indicated it earlier.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        however, you again do not take into account that the methods of inspiring the masses to make a production breakthrough were, to put it mildly, not entirely democratic

                        Let's start with something simple - the methods of governance in the Russian Federation today are also far from democratic.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        and you, perhaps, with your desire for revolutionary changes, at that time would have been quite successful in digging the White Sea Canal, or felling timber on the railway line

                        Probably.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Well, actually, the conditions were different then and now.

                        True. And here's what's interesting - the repressions of the 30s were, in essence, without alternative. Simply because the spontaneously formed vertical of power, where "practitioners of the civil war - communists" prevailed with the habit of solving all issues through a revolver and expropriating the expropriated in favor of their beloved selves, simply could not, did not know how to work effectively. Here it was necessary either to wage a gradual struggle for decades, which did not happen, or to go into repression, alas, with innocent victims.
                        The repressive method had no alternative in the early USSR for a number of reasons, the first of which was the presence of an unprofessional vertical of power, and the second was the lack of personnel capable of building a new vertical to replace the old one.
                        By the way, I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Holodomor. It happened in the USSR too. But if you look into it, it turns out that the famine was the result of the inability to run a planned economy and that same corrupted vertical power structure.
                        Accordingly, you are absolutely right in pointing out the repressive methods of the early USSR. But at the same time you do not take into account at all that the results that were achieved in the early USSR by repressions could have been achieved in the Russian Federation without using them.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        I believe that in terms of the comparison between Russia and China, you had no complaints and you did admit that the conditions for development in the period 2000-2025 were different for China and Russia?

                        What claims? The conditions of the Russian Federation 2000-2025 and the USSR 1922-47 were different. But if you analyze the development of the Russian Federation and the early USSR, as well as China 2000-2025, you will see that despite the difference in conditions, only the inefficiency of our public administration became the reason for lagging behind China.
                        The conditions were indeed unequal. The Russian Federation was a country with the powerful scientific backlog of the USSR, to which China was as far away as China on all fours:))))))) At the same time, the Russian Federation received an even more powerful incentive in the form of gas and oil, trading which could generate huge profits without putting in much effort. China did not have it.
                        Of course, China had its advantages, but... They were able to use them. We were not.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Therefore, in order not to plagiarize, I will end my comment with a phrase from a colleague

                        Don't repeat your colleague's mistakes. Limit yourself to your own:)))))
                      54. +1
                        8 September 2025 23: 28
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Let's start with something simple - the methods of governance in the Russian Federation today are also far from democratic.


                        However, they don’t smear your forehead with green paint and don’t put you up against the wall.
                        From just the parasites and homeless people hanging around doing nothing in the middle of the workday, it would be possible to put together multi-thousand work teams for people's construction projects, but they don't touch them, like they don't restrict freedom and human rights. Where else could it be more loyal?
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The quietly formed vertical power structure, where "practitioners of the civil war - communists" with the habit of resolving all issues through a revolver and expropriating the expropriated in favor of their beloved selves, simply could not, did not know how to work effectively.


                        To be fair, it should be noted that the confiscation of grain from peasants was introduced back in 1916 under Nikolai-!!, extended under Kerensky, and continued under the Bolsheviks, so they are not original here. Expropriation is generally common to everyone when power changes, it's just called by different names.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        By the way, I'm surprised that you didn't mention the Holodomor. It happened in the USSR too. But if you look into it, it turns out that the famine was the result of the inability to run a planned economy and that same corrupted vertical power structure.

                        At that time, the Holodomor was not an exclusively Russian disaster and affected the same Europe and the USA (more details here - https://201day.wordpress.com/2017/05/29/голодомор-в-разных-евопе-и-сша/?wref=tp
                        There are two reasons for the Holodomor: crop failures due to drought and, yes, if a Western capitalist, bypassing the embargo, still sold the RSFSR machine tools and equipment for silver, gold and diamonds from the Gokhran, then later decided to sell the same thing but exclusively for grain. Then it was necessary to either tighten their belts or develop, they decided that they would both develop and tighten them.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But at the same time, you completely ignore the fact that the results that were achieved through repression in the early USSR could have been achieved in the Russian Federation without using them.

                        Not anymore. Tightening the screws through repressive methods could only push Russia to further growth of separatist sentiments in the regions and the disintegration of the country into national apartments. Even your neighbors from the Sverdlovsk province quite seriously ventilated the topic of creating a Ural republic.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You will see that despite the difference in conditions, only the inefficiency of our public administration has become the reason for our lagging behind China.

                        It is impossible to explain Russia’s lag behind China solely by the inefficiency of public administration, although it does exist.
                        Whatever one may say, the problem was that the West and the Yeltsinoids were pursuing a deliberate policy of clearing the Russian market of its own producers in favor of Western goods + a banal lack of money. Despite the collapse of the USSR, the Venik amendment continued to operate in relation to Russia, then it was replaced by the Magnitsky Act + a financial noose in the form of paying off the USSR's debt, while loans were opened to China and investments went into its economy. Oil and gas, at a certain stage, practically did not give Russia sufficient income for the development of its own production and they were only enough to support its pants with the payment of interest on loans. It was only later, when Russia returned 264 deposits under its jurisdiction, that the money went into the treasury and it became possible to pay off debts and start investing in its own production.
                      55. +2
                        9 September 2025 07: 12
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        It is impossible to explain Russia’s lag behind China solely by the inefficiency of public administration, although it does exist.

                        Everything you said above does not apply to the comparison of the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation, so there is no need to respond to this within the framework of the discussion.
                        But this statement of yours needs to be responded to.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Whatever one may say, the problem was that the West and the Yeltsinoids were pursuing a deliberate policy of clearing the Russian market of its own producers.

                        And the Yeltsinoids. That is, the management of the Russian Federation. But we are not talking about the 90s
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        Despite the collapse of the USSR, the Venik amendment continued to apply to Russia

                        So what? What problems did it cause us?:))))) Hint - practically none.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        then it was replaced by the Magnitsky Act + a financial noose in the form of paying off the USSR debt,

                        The Magnitsky Act - pinpoint sanctions against a limited number of people, they had virtually no impact on the Russian economy. The "noose" amounted to $1994 billion in 104,5, which for a country with a trillion-dollar GDP (in the early 2000s) is a small external debt - most countries have much larger debts and are doing just fine
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        At a certain stage, oil and gas practically did not provide Russia with sufficient income to develop its own production and were only enough to support its pants by paying interest on loans.

                        Wrong again:)))) Yes, in 2000 the prices were at $30 per barrel. The long and almost continuous growth of oil prices began in March 2002 and by 2008 the price was $140 per barrel. That is, Putin was literally swimming in oil money
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        This was later, when Russia returned 264 deposits under its jurisdiction.

                        I can't even guess what you're talking about.
                      56. +2
                        9 September 2025 10: 34
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And the Yeltsinoids. That is, the management of the Russian Federation. But we are not talking about the 90s

                        We are talking about conditions. So all the conditions that still have a negative impact on economic development were laid down by the Yeltsinoids in the 90s.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Wrong again:)))) Yes, in 2000 the prices were at $30 per barrel. The long and almost continuous growth of oil prices began in March 2002 and by 2008 the price was $140 per barrel.
                        The issue is not the price, it was sufficient, but how the profits from the sale of hydrocarbons were distributed.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        This was later, when Russia returned 264 deposits under its jurisdiction.
                        I can't even guess what you're talking about.

                        In order to eliminate this gap in your knowledge, there is nothing easier than to type a request into a search engine and find out the history of ownership of these deposits. Almost all of them were returned, with the exception of several located on Sakhalin, and even those, it seems, were transferred under our jurisdiction a couple of years ago due to sanctions Yes
                        Let's finish for this.
                      57. 0
                        9 September 2025 10: 41
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        So all the conditions that still have a negative impact on economic development were laid down by the Yeltsinoids in the 90s.

                        Incorrect. For example, the mineral extraction tax, when we managed to tie 50% of federal budget revenues to the dollar exchange rate and the cost of oil on import exchanges, was introduced in 2002.
                        And if this were not so, would religion have prevented us from canceling Yeltsin’s economic refinements over the past 25 years?
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        The issue is not the price, it was sufficient, but how the profits from the sale of hydrocarbons were distributed.

                        As you were told, the external debt of the Russian Federation was very small even taking into account the debts of the USSR. That is, other countries successfully developed with a much greater debt burden.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        In order to eliminate this gap in your knowledge, there is nothing easier than to type a request into a search engine and find out the history of ownership of these deposits.

                        In order to fill the gap in your knowledge, I inform you that the overwhelming majority of income to the budget comes from taxes on deposits, and it does not matter at all who owns them.
                      58. 0
                        9 September 2025 10: 46
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In order to fill the gap in your knowledge, I inform you that the overwhelming majority of income to the budget comes from taxes on deposits, and it does not matter at all who owns them.

                        Your mistake is that you are absolutely convinced that you are right and, based on this, you do not even try to ventilate the proposed topic on these 264 deposits. It is your business. Each of us will remain with his own. In total hi
                      59. +1
                        9 September 2025 11: 03
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        based on this, don't even try to ventilate the proposed topic

                        In a discussion, it is impolite to send your opponent to google something incomprehensible. I give my arguments in detail.
                        Quote: Nyrobsky
                        you are absolutely convinced that you are right

                        No, you are convinced that you are right and therefore you give a reference to some deposits. Since you consider yourself right, you are sure that the information is easy to find.
                        First I need to figure out what you did wrong this time and then look for it.
                      60. man
                        +2
                        8 September 2025 21: 41
                        Add:
                        and also two wars, much more serious than those of the Russian Federation, World War I and the civil war...
                      61. +2
                        9 September 2025 07: 13
                        Quote: mann
                        and also two wars, and much more serious ones than those of the Russian Federation,

                        This is undoubtedly true
                      62. man
                        0
                        9 September 2025 07: 25
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: mann
                        and also two wars, and much more serious ones than those of the Russian Federation,

                        This is undoubtedly true

                        It turns out that not everyone knows this... it's just hard to wrap your head around... request
                      63. +2
                        8 September 2025 14: 21
                        The silly bot entered into the debate, but it is obvious that it lacks brains, so it has nothing to counter the correct questions with!
                      64. The comment was deleted.
                      65. -5
                        8 September 2025 20: 45
                        Are you talking about me?
                        Are you free, do you have no family, no responsibilities? I have a large family, I have a job, and a huge farm. 5 hectares of land. Several sites where we feed wild birds. Wild foxes under care. 6 dogs.
                        And besides, I have made it a rule to educate the Western audience. Yesterday I spent several hours of my sleep discussing one topic in an English-language publication. The discussion was unusually tough. Often, I am the only one who writes worthwhile information under yet another false and nasty publication about the Russian Federation, its leadership and army, translated into English from Ukrainska Pravda. As you can guess, I am not describing my emotions, but sharing real facts. And this is not oohs and aahs, but a lot of work that requires both time and emotional investment.

                        This topic is not about China.
                        I have a close friend who is Chinese. She comes from a family of hereditary doctors for many generations. She herself is from the Mongolian branch of the younger brother of Genghis Khan, who fled to China after his death. She is the 23rd generation. And she knows her ancestors for all 23 generations. Now she works as a professor at an American university. We talked about China for many hours. She grew up on the parables of Zhuangzi. Dad told her them before bed when she was little. In order to retell you everything that I learned about China from her, what I researched myself, what I learned from my husband and his circle, the physics guys who were passionate about Sinology, I would have to spend days talking to you. I don’t have that kind of time. Besides, China is a very interesting topic, and if you can go through it yourself, you will make great progress in your discovery of the world.
                        Good luck in your search for truth!
                      66. +6
                        8 September 2025 21: 09
                        Quote: lesya
                        I have a big family, I have a job, and a huge farm. The land is 5 hectares.

                        It reminds me of "I am an officer's daughter, and not everything is so clear-cut"...
                      67. -2
                        8 September 2025 21: 14
                        If you allow someone to write in this form to a sincere and open letter, especially one not addressed to you, then your human value is not very high. Besides, judging by how much you have spammed here, blurring the topic, you are not only bored with yourself, but also have nothing special to share with the audience. Stay healthy.
                      68. +7
                        8 September 2025 21: 25
                        Quote: lesya
                        If you allow a sincere and open letter, moreover, addressed not to you, to be written in such a form

                        Yes, I am cynical. Especially towards those who, in response to an absolutely correct request, write
                        Quote: lesya
                        Maybe in that case you should stop whining,

                        And that's all. In general,
                        "You shouldn't shyly pull your skirt down to your knees, Comrade Captain 1st Rank, when you came to a venereologist for help. Tell me, how did you manage to turn such a good and necessary thing as receiving a patron's delegation into a drunken orgy with trips on a command boat along a winter bay with preventive grenade throwing?" (c)
                        Quote: lesya
                        Besides, judging by how much you've spammed here, blurring the topic

                        I don't flood, I communicate with people who are interesting to me. You are the one flooding here, because you post completely absurd things, but when asked to confirm them with something, you quickly slip off topic
                        Quote: lesya
                        If you can complete it yourself, you will make great progress in your discovery of the world.

                        Quote: lesya
                        And you figure it out yourself.

                        And other and other.
                      69. man
                        +3
                        8 September 2025 21: 58
                        how much have you spammed here, blurring the topic
                        you are a different matter... all about space and spaceships... reusable...
                      70. +6
                        9 September 2025 05: 59
                        Andrey, I welcome you! hi
                        There is no point in wasting your energy on arguing with Kirienko's bots. Nolite mittere margaritas ante porcos. There is no doubt that Lesya is a bot, the style of presentation, the order of sentence construction, the appeal to some facts that he does not provide, the declaration of himself as a bearer of sacred knowledge and a high mission to expose foreign agents - all this is full under any post in VK. Now, apparently, they have reached VO (I hope Gazprom has not yet bought out our favorite resource). There is no use explaining anything to them, because they are on a salary and are not going to change their positions at all (if we are talking about people at all, and not dealing with a robot). Only life can bring such people to their senses. And I wish them that with all my heart.
                      71. The comment was deleted.
                      72. +3
                        9 September 2025 08: 02
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        You can also compare the development rates of China and Russia in 2000-2025.

                        China has 1082 dollar billionaires, Russia + Germany + Switzerland + England + France + Italy + India - about half as many.
                        Are Communist Billionaires Driving the Economy Faster Than Capitalist Billionaires? belay
                      73. +4
                        9 September 2025 09: 00
                        I don't know why you need the number of dollar billionaires, but if you take the indicator, then I ask you to use it correctly.
                        In Russia there is 1 billionaire per 1,16 million population
                        In China, by the way, there are currently about 800 billionaires, which gives 1 billionaire per 1.76 million people.
                        So, in terms of population, we have one and a half times more billionaires than China.
                      74. -2
                        9 September 2025 11: 58
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        So, in terms of population, we have one and a half times more billionaires than China.

                        According to your method, it turns out that if 140 million Russians die now, we will be the richest country in the world - 1 billionaire per 1 inhabitant.
                        And according to your method it turns out that China is a poor country - compared to us.....
                        Sure sure..
                      75. +3
                        9 September 2025 14: 16
                        Quote: your1970
                        According to your method, it turns out that if 140 million Russians die now, we will be the richest country in the world.

                        This is according to you. Because with the death of 140 million people the number of billionaires will decrease, possibly to zero.
                        Quote: your1970
                        And according to your method it turns out that China is a poor country.

                        According to you. You manage to measure the wealth of a country by the number of dollar billionaires. Which is economic absurdity. A large number of billionaires per population usually indicates an unfair distribution of income in a society, and not its wealth.
                      76. -1
                        9 September 2025 15: 11
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        This is according to you. Because with the death of 140 million people the number of billionaires will decrease, possibly to zero.

                        No, this is according to your method - dividing the oligarchs per capita.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        A large number of billionaires per population usually indicates an unfair distribution of income in a society, rather than its wealth.

                        Of course, this testifies to the unfairness of the division - and according to your calculation method, it turns out that in China significantly more fairer The oligarchs are spread thinly across the population.
                        Repeat
                        Quote: your1970
                        Are Communist Billionaires Driving the Economy Faster Than Capitalist Billionaires?
                      77. +2
                        9 September 2025 15: 17
                        Quote: your1970
                        No, this is according to your method - dividing the oligarchs per capita.

                        My method is to judge by the number of billionaires taking into account the population. That's all. The rest of the statements
                        Quote: your1970
                        if 140 million russians die now we will be the richest country in the world -

                        Quote: your1970
                        China is a poor country

                        These are your thoughts, I don't need other people's laurels:)))
                        Quote: your1970
                        and according to your calculation method, it turns out that in China the oligarchs are spread out over the population in a thin layer much more fairly.

                        It's right.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Are Communist Billionaires Driving the Economy Faster Than Capitalist Billionaires?

                        We are talking about public administration, about state economic policy. Billionaires have nothing to do with it.
                      78. -1
                        9 September 2025 15: 52
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        We are talking about public administration, about state economic policy. Billionaires have nothing to do with it.

                        Hmm, the owners of 92% of industry and 85% of the banking sector have nothing to do with it?!
                      79. +2
                        9 September 2025 15: 56
                        Absolutely right. If Putin has done anything useful, it is that billionaires are being removed from the management of the state's economic policy.
                      80. -1
                        9 September 2025 16: 07
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Absolutely right. If Putin has done anything useful, it is that billionaires are being removed from the management of the state's economic policy.

                        Putin and China belay excommunicated billionaires from managing the state's economic policy???!!!
                      81. +2
                        9 September 2025 16: 28
                        Quote: your1970
                        Putin also excommunicated billionaires in China from managing the state's economic policy???

                        And they never ruled the state there. I don't want to insult you in any way, but couldn't you at least study the basics of the issues on which you are taking it upon yourself to speak?
                      82. -1
                        9 September 2025 16: 57
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        [
                        And they never ran the state there.

                        I wrote about China
                        Quote: your1970
                        Hmm, the owners of 92% of industry and 85% of the banking sector have nothing to do with it?!

                        You have placed Fishing season
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Absolutely right. If Putin has done anything useful, it is that billionaires are being removed from the management of the state's economic policy.
                      83. 0
                        9 September 2025 17: 38
                        Quote: your1970
                        You got Putin settled

                        Well, I'm sorry, I didn't understand you the first time. And?
                      84. -1
                        9 September 2025 14: 10
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        But I have offered you a very specific exercise - to compare the rates of development of the USSR and the Russian Federation. You can also compare the rates of development of China and the Russian Federation in 2000-2025. After that, please answer the question - is Putin effective as the President of the Russian Federation?


                        The comparison is not correct in principle.
                        There are many factors that influence development.
                        The USSR (what period) and the Russian Federation are completely different countries/states.
                        In terms of geography, demographics, ideology, resources, in terms of international relations. The USSR had an economic union (CMEA), which gave perks to the USSR, the Russian Federation had no economic allies, nor military ones.

                        China... what is the demographics like there, how many pensioners, what share of GDP goes to social needs? China has a large foreign diaspora, the capabilities of which (from investments to industrial espionage) are used to the fullest by the Chinese comrades.

                        Whoever can - let them do it better. Did EBN do it better? Or would Zhirinovsky or Yavlinsky have done it better?
                        In China, big business there stands at attention before the authorities. And what was it like here when Putin started, shall I remind you? Do you know what "seven bankers" is? Putin's merit is that he at least weakened the appetites of local oligarchs, but only partially, alas. But this is not a small thing. Otherwise, we would not have what we have now and would be living in the "wild 20s".
                        Politics is the art of the possible. The President is not God Almighty, after all, we must look at things realistically.

                      85. +4
                        9 September 2025 14: 19
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        USSR (what period)

                        Take the trouble to read the discussion and you will find out.
                      86. 0
                        9 September 2025 07: 57
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The USSR, starting from a country torn apart by civil war, impoverished - a powerful industrial superpower, which overthrew Nazi Germany, and two years later - tested an atomic bomb
                        bombs. RF...

                        - It was a little easier there - they would have declared VO a military Trotskyist organization with distribution to everyone according to their merits and that's it - they would go to saw the taiga and build Komsomolsk-on-Amur. And no one cared what clubs the children would attend in the middle of the dense taiga...
                        Everything was simpler, much simpler...
                      87. +4
                        9 September 2025 08: 53
                        True. But repressions, as I wrote below, were necessary for a number of objective reasons in the early USSR. It was an instrument of change (organization of an effective vertical of power + transfer of the village to the city and introduction of new methods of agriculture). In the Russian Federation, these methods were not necessary.
                        And yes, the USSR was not built by prisoners
                      88. 0
                        9 September 2025 10: 53
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And yes, the USSR was not built by prisoners

                        No.
                        But there weren't many fundamental differences in Komsomolsk-on-Amur - there was no escort guarding the free people, they were paid wages and you could drink. But they couldn't leave with their tails wagging either.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        It was a tool for change (organization capable power vertical

                        Hmm, when I read the act of acceptance of the People's Commissariat of Defense from 07.05.1940/XNUMX/XNUMX, I had a strong feeling that I saw this somewhere literally yesterday...
                        If a Soviet commander gives a characterization of a subordinate as "Not fit for staff and teaching work - he organically hates them" and then the subordinate becomes Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army...

                        What kind of effective vertical is this? Stalin had to mold at least some kind of vertical out of what he had - he had no time for effectiveness...
                      89. +4
                        9 September 2025 11: 10
                        Quote: your1970
                        What kind of effective vertical power structure is this?

                        The one that transformed the Red Army of 1939
                        Quote: your1970
                        Act of acceptance of the People's Commissariat of Defense dated 07.05.1940

                        In the Red Army of 1941, which was much more combat-ready. I remember, I even wrote an article on this topic...
                        Quote: your1970
                        What kind of effective vertical power structure is this?

                        Yes, I don't have any Hindenburgs for you. But you can read about the quality of the Red Army in 1941 in comparison with the Polish, English and French armies in Halder.
                      90. -1
                        9 September 2025 11: 44
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In the Red Army of 1941, which was much more combat-ready. I remember, I even wrote an article on this topic...
                        Quote: your1970
                        What kind of effective vertical power structure is this?

                        Yes, I don't have any Hindenburgs for you. But you can read about the quality of the Red Army in 1941 in comparison with the Polish, English and French armies in Halder.

                        There was an exchange of time for territory
                        In principle, the "Astrakhan-Arkhangelsk" line clearly shows that the Wehrmacht generals were planning a kind of SVO - "we will reach Moscow, Stalin's power will collapse, we will borrow as much as we need and conclude peace."
                        And when the Red Army started to kick up a fuss - unlike France and other sluts - Galder and company would write even worse things.
                      91. +1
                        9 September 2025 14: 22
                        This is not important in the context of the discussion. What is important is that in 1939 what we had as an army could hardly be called one, but in 1941 Halder put the Red Army above European armies in terms of operational art and combat capability. He knew what he was talking about, he had to fight with everyone.
                      92. +1
                        9 September 2025 15: 32
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The important thing is that in 1939 what we had as an army could hardly be called

                        Act from 07.05.1940.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In 1941, Halder put the Red Army above European armies in terms of operational skill and combat effectiveness. He knew what he was talking about, he had to fight with everyone.

                        I repeat - despite the Red Army's resilience, the speed of the Wehrmacht's advance was very high. This at least says that a large part of the described mess was not eliminated.
                        В 1998 There was an order to write off the communications property of the RF Armed Forces in connection with its decommissioning - without any separate acts, it was written off directly by this order.
                        The first item was "a 2-wheeled bicycle-mounted cart for transporting carrier pigeons" adopted for service in 1928 year...
                        Then came all sorts of Bodo 1934, Krieger 1939 and similar delights....
                        The mess of the Red Army smoothly flowed into the SA, from there into the Armed Forces. Someone somewhere in the Main Directorate of Communications solemnly rewrote this cart, summed up the results, considered the filling of the USSR SA with means of communication - almost new, apparently.....
                      93. +3
                        9 September 2025 16: 34
                        Quote: your1970
                        I repeat - despite the Red Army's resilience, the speed of the Wehrmacht's advance was very high. This at least says that a large part of the described mess was not eliminated.

                        I repeat - to evaluate the vertical of military power in the USSR in 1939-1941, one should not compare the Red Army and the Wehrmacht. One should compare the Red Army of 1939 and 1941.
                        Quote: your1970
                        Act of 07.05.1940.

                        Act of transfer of affairs from one leader to another. In fact, it illustrates the state of the troops after the preparation of 1939 and the revealed during the Finnish
                      94. -2
                        9 September 2025 17: 06
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I repeat - to evaluate the vertical of military power in the USSR in 1939-1941, one should not compare the Red Army and the Wehrmacht. One should compare the Red Army of 1939 and 1941.

                        I do not compare the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in a single word.
                        And yes, the act was written in May 1940 - what are you comparing it to? 1939 с 1941, and not since 1940?
                        I have given an example of how the chaos in the states and property of the Red Army continued until 1998.
                        Why did you decide that anything was removed from the Act? If the People's Commissariat did not even know the exact actual number of the Red Army??!!
                      95. +2
                        9 September 2025 20: 37
                        Quote: your1970
                        And yes, the act was written in May 1940 - why are you comparing 1939 with 1941, and not with 1940?

                        Because the quality of the Red Army at the beginning of 1940 and by the end of 1940 are two very different things. But at the beginning of 1940 the Red Army was at the level of 1939.
                        Quote: your1970
                        I do not compare the Red Army and the Wehrmacht in a single word.

                        You write
                        Quote: your1970
                        There was an exchange of time for territory

                        Quote: your1970
                        I repeat - despite the Red Army's resilience, the speed of the Wehrmacht's advance was very high. This at least says that a large part of the described mess was not eliminated.

                        That is, you put a direct correlation between the level of chaos in the Red Army and the ability to resist the Wehrmacht. This is a comparison, although not a direct one.
                        Quote: your1970
                        I have given an example of how the chaos in the states and property of the Red Army continued until 1998.

                        There is always chaos in the Armed Forces - they are inseparable from it. There was plenty of it in the Wehrmacht too.
                        Quote: your1970
                        If the People's Commissariat didn't even know the exact actual number of the Red Army??!!

                        And the Germans didn't know the exact number of their armed forces. And they fought somehow.
                      96. -1
                        9 September 2025 21: 12
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Because the quality of the Red Army at the beginning of 1940 and at the end of 1940 are two very different things.

                        One and the same. It was impossible to eliminate that snake pit in principle - the problems were too big.. You can draw up a staff for property - but it is impossible to redistribute or bring property. When winter was given in January and summer - by July...
                        If they count - by heads!!! - they couldn't build an army in 2 months, the simplest thing is - they couldn't....
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And the Germans didn't know the exact number of their armed forces. And they fought somehow.

                        The Germans and ours did not know during the war - this is normal.
                        The problem is that our people didn't know the exact numbers. WITHOUT war in May 1940.
                      97. +1
                        9 September 2025 21: 32
                        Quote: your1970
                        One and the same. It was impossible to eliminate that snake pit in principle - the problems were too big.

                        And yet, by 1941 it had been largely eliminated. Objectively, the example of the Border Battle shows how much the training of troops had increased in comparison with 1939.
                        Quote: your1970
                        The Germans and ours did not know during the war - this is normal.

                        There was nothing normal there. In the mess they created, they couldn't even account for their losses in principle. And what about a brothel with winter clothes in the USSR? And the lack of streptocide? And the lack of hot food as a norm, because of which they had to form entire gastritis divisions?
                      98. -1
                        9 September 2025 23: 04
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        And what about a brothel with winter clothing in the USSR?

                        And ours don't have a brothel? At least the Germans came from a mild climate, but ours:
                        "The troops were not provided with clothing and equipment in a timely manner according to the winter plan of 1939-40. The release of uniforms to units was delayed until January (!!!) 1940The issues of providing warm clothes (earflaps, gloves, felt boots) were not worked out and were not raised in a timely manner by the People's Commissariat of Defense. According to the summer plan for 1940, by May 1, districts were short of more than 1 million sets of uniforms, the distribution of which will be completed only in June (!!!).

                        what could be corrected if as of May (!!!) - not as of December or January:
                        "4. The plan for armament and supplies for 1940 in the districts has still not been sent down due to the fault of the Main Directorate of the Armed Forces, which does not allow us to work out the provision of troops for peacetime and wartime.

                        But this shows the level of the Red Army - on the political line. Comrade political workers, instead of at least occasionally (!!!) showing up for work and looking into the safe, apparently drank vodka and played telephone operators. There is no other way to explain the 10-year delay and non-issuance of party cards:
                        "4. As of 01.01.40, there are party candidates in the army expired 64797 people with experience, of which 8 people have 3135 years (!!!!) of candidate experience and 10 people have 226 years (!!!!!!) of experience."
                        The trick is that a person could walk as a candidate legal(!!!) only six months lol - then he was accepted into the party or not accepted - and he left the candidates. And here only 10 years - what nonsense wassat

                        5. The Political Directorate violates the procedure for issuing documents established by the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) 10-day the term of party documents accepted into the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) and delays this issuance for a period of up to one year. 9166 party membership cards and 16 candidate cards have not yet been issued. The Political Directorate has violated the three-month reporting deadline and has not reported to the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) on 729 party documents issued.

                        What could have been done with this in six months?
                        "The field training of medical personnel of the cadre and reserve, especially in matters of military field surgery, organization and tactics of the medical service, turned out to be unsatisfactory."


                        and with that?
                        2. People's Commissariat of Defense has not yet eliminated the following shortcomings of the mobilization plan, revealed during the partial mobilization in September 1939:
                        a) the extreme neglect of accounting for military reserves, because The inventory has not been conducted since 1927 belay (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) years;
                      99. +1
                        10 September 2025 07: 12
                        Quote: your1970
                        Isn't ours a brothel?

                        Ours is not quite the same in terms of accounting for losses.
                        Quote: your1970
                        The troops were not provided with clothing and equipment in a timely manner according to the winter plan of 1939-40. The release of uniforms to units was delayed until January (!!!) 1940

                        Yes. And in 1941 they fought in winter clothes.
                        In short, I don't understand what you are trying to prove. The fact that the Red Army from 1939 to 1941 really, really pulled itself together and improved greatly is an objective fact, confirmed by enemy sources as well. The fact that many problems remained is not denied by anyone.
                      100. 0
                        10 September 2025 10: 35
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Ours is not quite the same in terms of accounting for losses.

                        The Germans came up with an exact figure for their losses by 1954. Ours - to this day!! - count to the point of fisticuffs and have not come to a single, unambiguous opinion
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The fact that the Red Army from 1939 to 1941 really pulled itself together and improved greatly is an objective fact.
                        once again - act from May 1940- if the mess began to be cleared up, it was only after Voroshilov left.
                        The act says in Russian that earlier repeatedly the shortcomings were pointed out - but nothing was done and these specific issues were not eliminated.
                        If total indiscipline was not eliminated by the rather harsh purges of 1934-1937, so eliminating it in a year is nonsense, even if heads were chopped off and skulls were piled on the parade ground
                      101. +1
                        10 September 2025 11: 57
                        Quote: your1970
                        The Germans had come up with an exact figure for their losses by 1954.

                        Not only did they not deduce it, it is impossible to deduce it even theoretically due to gaps in the accounting system. That is, the FRG data is obviously incomplete.

                        Quote: your1970
                        If the rather harsh purges of 1934-1937 did not help to eliminate total indiscipline, then eliminating it in a year is nonsense.

                        The preparation of the Red Army is a complex process, and the issue there was not only and often not so much indiscipline. And a lot can be done in a year.
                      102. -1
                        10 September 2025 19: 14
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The preparation of the Red Army is a complex process, and the issue there was not only and often not so much indiscipline. And a lot can be done in a year.

                        The issue of discipline in the army is of the utmost importance. If it does not exist, and it does not exist - judging by the lack of precise information about the actual numbers, 10-year-old candidates and a bunch of other violations of a disciplinary nature - then it is practically impossible to teach anyone anything.
                        For example, here is the famous "complexity in operating the SVT" with an extremely complex regulator - like the soldiers were stupid and couldn't master it.
                        The treatment is elementary - on the parade ground in the morning the father-commander announces "Today it's -5, the regulator on the SVT is there. Company commanders check and tear it out!"
                        And that's it - in a week even a baboon would know the situation, not to mention the Red Army soldiers. The problem was different - for trouble-free operation, the SVT needs to be cleaned well and regularly, but the Mosin can go uncleaned. Naturally, the soldiers dodged this entertainment. This is low discipline and anarchy - and you can only teach a soldier to fight competently with the SVT by raising discipline - by forcing him to clean it.
                        Which in reality did not happen - and the fighters continued to "play the fool".

                        The maximum is that you can depict type "training" - which is also described in the act. I repeat, given the mess that is being created, it is impossible to SERIOUSLY improve the surgical training of doctors, for example.
                      103. +1
                        10 September 2025 19: 52
                        Quote: your1970
                        The issue of discipline in the army is of the utmost importance. If it does not exist, and it does not exist - judging by the lack of precise information about the actual numbers, 10-year-old candidates and a bunch of other violations of a disciplinary nature - then it is practically impossible to teach anyone anything.

                        I can explain to you how it's done, and it's done very quickly, but it will be a long lecture. The essence of it is in the Ipatyev-Zlobin method. You take your deputies, give them tasks, then call them one by one onto the carpet, and start angrily s... Well, you get the idea.
                        Therefore, I will not give a long lecture, but will quote Halder’s diary.
                        26 June 41 г
                        The enemy operating against Army Group South shows firm and energetic leadership.

                        29th of June 41
                        The stubborn resistance of the Russians forces us to fight according to all the rules of our combat regulations. In Poland and the West we could allow ourselves certain liberties and deviations from the statutory principles; now this is no longer permissible.

                        11 July 41 g
                        The enemy command acts energetically and skillfully. The enemy fights fiercely and fanatically.
                      104. -1
                        10 September 2025 22: 51
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I can explain to you how it's done, and it's done very quickly, but it will be a long lecture. The essence of it is in the Ipatyev-Zlobin method. You take your deputies, give them tasks, then call them one by one onto the carpet, and start angrily s... Well, you get the idea.

                        1988
                        training, guard duty in 3 days. Platoon of Russians and Uzbeks (real villagers) shot at each other, big guard duty - everyone go.
                        We studied for 1 day, and naturally on the 2nd day there was no word.
                        OZK, gas mask, battery from gas station gyrocompasses - 5 and 3 km. At+30...
                        They came running and started telling stories. Naturally, another 3 km.
                        On the 3rd circle I started to study urgently, otherwise I could die - and by 02:00 I was already in the barracks. The Uzbeks held out until lunch for 3 days - and by 05:50 everyone knew UGICS like the Koran - from any place in any direction.
                        Another day at the shipping town and we were a pretty average guard.
                        Passed 37 years - and I still remember that "The guard is prohibited from sleeping, sitting, writing, reading..." and the numbers of the seals (about 100) on the gates of 18 boxes.
                        And after this I read that “The People’s Commissariat did not know the exact actual numbers” - which means it could not make a plan for how much ammunition, soap, bread and underwear would be needed to provide belay belay belay
                        It's obvious that those below didn't give a damn about those above because there was chaos and anarchy in the units - complete because to clarify the actual number, only 2 days are needed. If of course there are no such facts as they wrote in the reports to the Act "At the time of the inspection, out of a division of about 6 people, 000 were AWOL" - it's clear as day why you would write here how many people you actually have - when they are wandering around who knows where???
                        What kind of minimal discipline can we talk about with 10 year old candidates?????

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The enemy operating against Army Group South shows firm and energetic leadership.
                        29th of June 41
                        The stubborn resistance of the Russians forces us to fight according to all the rules of our combat regulations. In Poland and the West we could allow ourselves certain liberties and deviations from the statutory principles; now this is no longer permissible.
                        11 July 41 g
                        The enemy command acts energetically and skillfully. The enemy fights fiercely and fanatically.

                        in fact, the only relative war of the Wehrmacht was France. And against the background of everything else - when more people in the Wehrmacht died in road accidents than in combat - the Red Army was strong and quite skilled.
                        But I strongly suspect that if it had been possible to raise discipline at least to the level of the SA, the Wehrmacht would have been much sadder.
                        It may well be that if the Ipatiev-Zlobin method had been used at least minimally, we would not have retreated so far.
                      105. +3
                        9 September 2025 11: 13
                        Quote: your1970
                        If a Soviet commander gives a characterization of a subordinate as "Not fit for staff and teaching work - he organically hates them" and then the subordinate becomes Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army

                        There was a corporal in Germany, he served in WWI. He served faithfully, but they didn't give him a promotion. And why? In his personal file there was a description: "Incapable of managing people."
                        The corporal's name was Adolf Hitler - I think you've heard of him:)))))
                      106. +1
                        9 September 2025 11: 52
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Quote: your1970
                        If a Soviet commander gives a characterization of a subordinate as "Not fit for staff and teaching work - he organically hates them" and then the subordinate becomes Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army

                        There was a corporal in Germany, he served in WWI. He served faithfully, but they didn't give him a promotion. And why? In his personal file there was a description: "Incapable of managing people."
                        The corporal's name was Adolf Hitler - I think you've heard of him:)))))

                        His characteristics clearly matched him - his activities led to the collapse of Germany in 12 years. He didn't even really manage himself - with his hysterics, what can we say about others?
                        If I were capable and smart, has stopped would have been in 1940. Made peace with England, traded with the USSR...
                        I think that Stalin would have been easy to survive - German medicine and pharmaceuticals were the best in the world.
                      107. +7
                        8 September 2025 09: 23
                        ...And look at the post-Soviet period of the Russian Federation in dynamics - how it was after the collapse of the USSR, and how it became. History is a process. It must be seen precisely in dynamics...


                        The dynamics of appointments of managers in the aviation industry are particularly visible.

                        ...a complete mess with the appointment of heads of aviation design bureaus, when, for example, at the Tupolev company over the last 12 years 7 heads have changed, and not one of them was an aircraft designer.
                        At Ilyushinskaya, in the entire history of the company from its creation in 1933 until 2014, there were only three managers, and then in 10 years there were as many as seven of them, who had nothing to do with aircraft design.
                        However, the budget allocated for civil aircraft construction has been successfully spent by them, although we have not yet seen any certified domestic aircraft.
                        And finally, the third reason is that the country’s aviation industry structures are completely devoid of responsibility for failure to carry out the work entrusted to them.
                        https://svpressa.ru/economy/article/479667/
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                2. -3
                  9 September 2025 09: 40
                  What dead end? Completely our own food and processing industry, completely our own production of the entire range of weapons, and much more, don't be shy about Googling, they don't punish for that... And as for raw materials, we have explored and exploited a lot of deposits, are you suggesting to mothball them, or still sell them to those in need?!...
                3. 0
                  9 September 2025 14: 49
                  Quote: Anglorussian
                  Instead of expanding industrial capacity, infrastructure is being created to export non-renewable resources

                  Russian Railways charges $100 for transporting a ton of coal to China. It charges $300 for transporting a ton of high-tech products, even nails, over the same distance. This shows how unprofitable it is to be a raw materials appendage or a raw materials power.
              2. +4
                8 September 2025 07: 34
                Capitalism in principle cannot be on the right path. It is a dead end for humanity.
                1. 2al
                  +1
                  8 September 2025 16: 51
                  But he doesn't need the right path, he goes around. It's funny, but the same "communist" open source is actively used by the same Elon Musk and at the same time he actively invests in it. Capitalist relations do not interfere with appropriating, borrowing and replacing what was invented as a means of fighting them.
                2. -1
                  9 September 2025 08: 34
                  Quote: paul3390
                  Capitalism in principle cannot be on the right path. It is a dead end for humanity.

                  Tell that to the Chinese - their 1082 dollar billionaires.
                  The damned capitalists - Germany/England/Russia/Switzerland/India/and a bunch of other gangs - have less.
                  In the USA, which is much more capitalistic, there are only 830.
                  67 billionaire communists - delegates to the CPC Congress
                  And yes, 82% of China's banks and 94% of its industry are private.
                  1. +4
                    9 September 2025 08: 53
                    A billionaire in China is a party position. And if he forgets about it and stops fulfilling his duties to the party, tomorrow another one will be appointed a billionaire. Have you heard much about Chinese billionaires buying up football clubs, palaces and cruise yachts in the West?
                    1. +1
                      9 September 2025 09: 08
                      Well, to be fair, there are plenty of private football clubs in China that are supported by large companies (the Shandong Luneng team is even supported by businessman Kang Mengjun).

                      Yes, Chinese billionaires are certainly far from Abramovich's yachts, but it's not appropriate to go fishing on boats either
                    2. +2
                      9 September 2025 11: 32
                      Quote: paul3390
                      How much have you heard about Chinese billionaires buying up football clubs, palaces and cruise yachts in the West?

                      Are you serious??? belay belay
                      Ask Bolt cutter - he will confirm to you that Russian oligarchs, starting in 2009, were in the top 10 in purchasing elite real estate in London - and first The Chinese have been occupying the place for 16 years.
                      Yachts
                      "Experts believe that in the foreseeable future, namely over the next 10 years, wealthy citizens of the PRC will buy at least 50 thousand sea yachts for a total of more than 17 billion dollars."
                      https://www.parusflot.ru/news/27
                      Aircraft
                      2012
                      "The luxury salon that a young French woman from Shanghai, Delphine Lignières, has been running on Hainan Island for three years now is certainly worth all the effort. This year, from April 5 to 8, about two dozen yachts and the same number of private jets were sold here, and as well as a collection of premium cars and phones (one of which cost twice as much as a Mercedes coupe), not to mention a collection of jewelry worthy of an Oscar ceremony. Although this “Hainan meeting”, accompanied by festivities no less lavish and elite than the Cannes Film Festival, is accessible only by invitation (everyone strives to obtain VVIP: Very Very Important Person status), this year it managed to attract more than 10 visitors, who spent a total of “several billion yuan”, i.e. several hundred million euros.
                      https://inosmi.ru/20120514/191905207.html

                      Damn
                      2023
                      "Uncertainty in China's economy is forcing wealthy Chinese to take capital out of the country. This year, the outflow reached $50 billion per month. We figure out where the money of wealthy Chinese is flowing and whether there is a threat to the country's economy"
                      https://dzen.ru/a/ZYs5kagfOAqL70JT

                      Quote: paul3390
                      A billionaire in China is a party position. And if he forgets about it and stops fulfilling his duties to the party, tomorrow another one will be appointed a billionaire.

                      What are you talking about?? Just different?
                      Won Th .....
                      So let me remind you - how in 2015 the owner of several mining and processing plants bought the whole ALL provincial leadership. There are 23 provinces in China - do you think 1082 oligarchs can jointly buy ALL of them - if 1 billionaire could buy ALL of the leadership of one??
                      Because of this, we had to curtail the NEP at the time....

                      I understand your admiration for communism, but in China it is simply a brand, a label of state capitalism.
                      There can be no communism if there is private ownership of 1/4 of the aircraft factories and half of the automobile factories.

                      It is impossible to own the means of production and be a communist - that is categorically contradicts the theory, even if the state has the ability to hit a billionaire over the head with a stick
                      1. +1
                        9 September 2025 14: 55
                        Quote: your1970
                        It is impossible to own the means of production and be a communist

                        The Bolsheviks, after coming to power, simply tried to introduce workers' control over the accounting of private enterprises. The complete nationalization of factories is the result of private sabotage of this attempt. The bookseller Sytov got along well with the new government, accepting the new rules and becoming a manager at his enterprise. The owner of the Armenian cognac factory did exactly the same, becoming a respected red director.
                      2. +1
                        9 September 2025 15: 47
                        Quote: gsev
                        The bookseller Sytov got along well with the new government, accepting the new rules and becoming the manager of his enterprise.

                        How does this eliminate the impossibility of owning the means of production under communism?
                        How does the owner of 3 printing houses relate to the owner of mining and processing plants in 6 countries of the world?
                      3. 0
                        9 September 2025 17: 49
                        Quote: your1970
                        How does this eliminate the impossibility of owning the means of production under communism?

                        The Stalinist model of socialism began to die immediately after the death of Joseph Vissarionovich. His daughter fled through India to the USA from the state created by her father, and his son went to prison while trying to get a visa to resettle in China. The system of managing real production is not very different under Stalinist socialism and English democracy. It's just that in Britain, rebellious workers were fired, while in Stalinist Russia, at some factories, a foreman could shoot a disobedient worker with a pistol issued to him for this purpose. In reality, in modern China and Russia, the owners of factories and collective farms have much less power than under Stalin, and the technology for changing owners is somewhat different.
                      4. 0
                        9 September 2025 19: 31
                        Quote: gsev
                        Stalin's model of socialism

                        What does Stalin have to do with this??? belay
                        The basic postulate of Marxism is the absence of private ownership of the means of production and the impossibility of appropriating the results of hired labor.
                        If a person appropriates himself the result of the work of mining and processing plants in 6 countries of the world - what kind of Marxism-communism in China to hell can we talk about???
                      5. +1
                        10 September 2025 06: 46
                        Quote: your1970
                        If a person appropriates the results of the work of mining and processing plants in 6 countries of the world

                        And what if the collective farm members are deprived of all their bread and survive by eating only quinoa? This is Stalin's reality in the village of Sibirovka. Probably the workers of these 6 mining and processing plants do not work hard in the garden after their shift and do not collect quinoa in order to feed themselves.
                      6. -1
                        10 September 2025 08: 24
                        Quote: gsev
                        Quote: your1970
                        If a person appropriates the results of the work of mining and processing plants in 6 countries of the world

                        And what if the collective farm members are deprived of all their bread and survive by eating only quinoa? This is Stalin's reality in the village of Sibirovka. Probably the workers of these 6 mining and processing plants do not work hard in the garden after their shift and do not collect quinoa in order to feed themselves.

                        So you are now praising the work of a Chinese billionaire and criticizing the Soviet government? Do I understand you correctly?
                      7. +1
                        10 September 2025 16: 56
                        Quote: your1970
                        So you are now praising the work of a Chinese billionaire and criticizing the Soviet government?

                        I am not an administrator. I have to work not directly, but for companies created by people who have a better command of legal and business practices than I do. The fact that capitalist businessmen can manage production without resorting to the law on a six-month prison term for being half an hour late, like Stalin's people's commissars and directors, says that the capitalist model is more viable than Stalin's. By the way, there are fewer differences between the way of life of Stalin and Ivan the Terrible than between the way of life of Stalin and Khrushchev or the way of life of Park Chung Hee and Olof Palme.
              3. +3
                9 September 2025 06: 33
                The right way? Are you kidding? You cite the example of the USSR and apply it to the Russian Federation? These are different states, different social relations. People are completely different. There are creators, and here are consumers. What is the right way?!
          3. +7
            8 September 2025 07: 41
            Yes, they have come a long way, even nails are from China.
            And the state cannot ensure the security of the people.
            The war was won by another nation. With the current leadership, such a war certainly cannot be won.
            1. -14
              8 September 2025 07: 59
              Do you want me to wipe away your tears too? Come on, men. Thank God you left the Russian Federation, Dimochka.
              1. +7
                8 September 2025 13: 02
                I live in the city of Nalchik.
                Wipe away your own tears of skill according to the current management.
            2. -8
              8 September 2025 08: 34
              Stop being a ZEPSO and move to the blooming garden - that's where you belong.
              1. +5
                8 September 2025 15: 23
                I didn't know that the Russian leadership is tsipso.
                And who do you represent?
                1. -9
                  8 September 2025 15: 45
                  No need to shift the blame from the sick to the healthy. To the garden, then to the garden, so act.
                  1. +5
                    8 September 2025 15: 46
                    And what about the garden that makes your hair stand on end?
          4. 12+
            8 September 2025 11: 14
            But it was not the Russian Federation that entered space, but the USSR.
            And our next achievement is the destruction of Uralmash. 95 hectares will be built up with residential complexes and shopping centers.
            1. -11
              8 September 2025 15: 38
              Quote: U. Cheny
              It was not the Russian Federation that entered space, but the USSR

              A play on words with the substitution of concepts.
              That is, the USSR did not defeat Napoleon, but we were proud of it in the USSR, as was the first cosmonaut, and the victory in the Great Patriotic War belongs to us. But you cunningly twist history and manipulate it. This is pure CIPSOT. Typical belittlement of the achievements of people living in states with different systems, but essentially one civilization with its own unique mentality, language, traditions and customs.
              1. +8
                8 September 2025 19: 24
                I am not twisting things, but stating the facts. Yes, the people are the same (although they are trying hard to make them different, and in some ways successfully), but if in the USSR the results of their labor were used for the development of the country, now they are used to increase the number of "Russians" in the Forbes list. Hence the results.
            2. +4
              8 September 2025 22: 17
              Quote: U. Cheny
              destruction of Uralmash

              Uralmash - that's it?
              1. +1
                9 September 2025 19: 47
                Yes, the first housing is planned to be delivered, I think, in 2028.
                1. +2
                  9 September 2025 20: 09
                  Quote: U. Cheny
                  Yes, the first housing is planned to be delivered, I think, in 2028.

                  Well, well... Well, there are no words, only interjections.
          5. +4
            8 September 2025 13: 36
            You forget what kind of people and in what kind of society all this was achieved.
          6. +4
            8 September 2025 22: 55
            Quote: lesya
            And space will be ours, have no doubt.

            I would like to, but there are currently approximately zero objective prerequisites for this.
          7. +1
            11 September 2025 04: 50
            space will be ours

            Lie. At least read the article first, we don't have anything like a reusable rocket, a bottle, and space x. Space will no longer be ours.
            Look how far Russia has come in 20 years.

            Who are you lying to? Where did you go? Did you restructure yourself to exchange oil for globalization products?
            Sputnik - 57, just 12 years after the war

            Are you still speculating on the old achievements of the country about which Chubais said that every destroyed plant is a nail in the coffin of communism?
            The West has satellite internet deployed right now, and you're pointing your fist at the sky.
      2. +1
        8 September 2025 05: 34
        To lament about space when the question is whether the people, the country, the Russian state and humanity as a whole will survive or not is absurd and childish.

        Truly bad orders were issued when the appearance of new weapons with enormous prospects was already clearly outlined. With the saved funds, hundreds of planes, tanks and rifles without counting were made.
      3. +3
        8 September 2025 09: 39
        Olesya-Lesya? Yes smile "" "" "
        1. +7
          8 September 2025 11: 25
          Quote from AdAstra
          Olesya-Lesya?

          No, Tatra with reverse thrust vectoring laughing
      4. +2
        8 September 2025 10: 01
        Russia, by starting the NWO, declared its sovereignty.

        Well, if you like Chinese proverbs, here is a quote from the ancient Chinese commander Sun Tzu from the treatise “The Art of War”: “The best battle is the one that never happened.”
        1. +1
          8 September 2025 15: 35
          Quote: T-100
          "The best battle is the one that never happened"

          This applies to battles of diplomats. If such a battle is inevitable, then comes the last argument of kings.
      5. -3
        8 September 2025 21: 41
        Lesenka, no need, not the right contingent! They won't understand.
    2. -7
      8 September 2025 08: 09
      Our country lacks only L.P.B. because Russians can create something worthwhile only under duress. Alas, alas
      1. -9
        8 September 2025 08: 50
        Russian, no matter Jew, Tatar, Armenian or Ukrainian, but Russian Jew, Tatar, Armenian or Ukrainian, will never slander their country and their people like that. You are an outsider.
    3. +3
      8 September 2025 11: 05
      Both Korolev and Musk may even exist, but it is not they who determine this, but “effective managers” and no less effective oligarchs.
    4. Lad
      +1
      9 September 2025 19: 44
      Perhaps you do not understand people in general well enough. Such "cave dinosaurs" exist in every country. Just like "Queens with Masks". The social system (as we used to tell you in class) is different in different countries. It affects ALL these people. This is the main reason for the differences. It basically gives rise to all the other differences between countries. It restrains dinosaurs, but on the contrary, gives more freedom to masks. This is the main difference. And this main difference itself gives rise to others. For example, people have a different mentality. Or another example - the most developed economy in the world.

      In no other country in the world could Musk have accomplished what he did. For example: In some country there is great freedom of entrepreneurship (particularly in space), but there is no powerful economy... Somewhere the opposite is true... and so on. The entire complex does not exist anywhere else. Alas. (But it is not a fact that it will not appear tomorrow, of course. God's ways...)
      1. 0
        11 September 2025 02: 54
        Lad Exactly! Musk is a product of the USA. Just like Ford. In China, for example, the system is somewhat different. It is not yet known which is more effective for technological progress. I bet on China :)
        But in terms of social progress... Lenin, socialism - our signature Russian products, our pride!
    5. 0
      11 September 2025 02: 22
      Quote: The same Lech
      our space industry is lagging behind the West...the 90s are having an effect

      Obviously, the damned 90s will continue to have a negative impact, at least until 2036! :)))
  3. +4
    8 September 2025 04: 24
    And we have Rogozin, Shoigu and other riff-raff!
    1. -1
      8 September 2025 08: 55
      Quote: zontov79
      And we have Rogozin, Shoigu and other riff-raff!

      And there are you who also belong to this riffraff. Or are you something else? Whose will you be?
      1. -2
        8 September 2025 14: 12
        I don’t belong to them, but you apparently do, since you expressed your displeasure.
  4. +2
    8 September 2025 05: 06
    Russian officials who have been banning access to everything and everyone lately should remember this – soon they will be able to ban sunlight and precipitation with the same success.

    Why ban something that can be a source of taxes?
    1. man
      +1
      8 September 2025 22: 14
      Quote: Sensor
      Russian officials who have been banning access to everything and everyone lately should remember this – soon they will be able to ban sunlight and precipitation with the same success.

      Why ban something that can be a source of taxes?

      Chekhov's immortal "Just so nothing happens"
  5. -12
    8 September 2025 05: 14
    It seems that all this has already happened. The same pictures, arguments, horror stories, the terminology has changed a little - it was SDI, it became the Golden Dome. We don't need to develop analogues, just shoot down their satellites, and en masse, and we need to start now.
    1. +7
      8 September 2025 05: 34
      What to shoot down? The article says that there will be thousands of satellites.
    2. 12+
      8 September 2025 06: 24
      Quote: torbas41
      and we need to start now.

      Yeah, get out the slingshot and get to work. Just warn the orderlies that this is for the good of the Motherland.
      1. man
        +2
        8 September 2025 22: 17
        Quote: Puncher
        Quote: torbas41
        and we need to start now.

        Yeah, get out the slingshot and get to work. Just warn the orderlies that this is for the good of the Motherland.

        The problem is that there aren't enough orderlies... there are too many patients...
  6. -8
    8 September 2025 05: 34
    The ability to launch 150 tons at a time 100-200 times a year or more, at $100-200 per kilogram of payload (PL) will lead to...

    As Stanislavsky said, "I don't believe it!"
    As always, a capitalist scam multiplied by the American game with shares. They did some magic here and got 100-200 dollars per kilogram of payload. And then it turns out that the state paid a lot there, then we calculated as from 1981 to 2011. Within its framework, six shuttles were built, which made 135 flights. And they should, if memory serves, fly every two weeks, i.e.
    (2011 - 1981)*52/2 = 780
    And if I misunderstood them, then each shuttle, then
    780 * 6 = 4680
    1. 15+
      8 September 2025 05: 50
      As Stanislavsky said, "I don't believe it!"

      Stanislavsky said a lot of things, that was his job.
      Your objection would have been appropriate at the development stage, as it was there: "launch it with a trampoline."
      Starlink is currently operational and, judging by the results, is highly effective. The article outlines a very possible implementation of an effective missile defense element.
      1. -1
        8 September 2025 08: 19
        I wanted to correct the text, but the Internet (episodically) froze. Therefore, I did not immediately write a response to a possible objection.
        Quote: Sensor
        Starlink is currently operational and, judging by the results, is highly effective. The article outlines a very possible implementation of an effective missile defense element.

        What do you mean, 150 tons. And you didn't think that the US can't handle producing such high-tech products in such volumes + Europe can't either. Which means everything will stand idle and will never pay for itself.
        Regarding Starlink. There are alternative solutions and much less expensive ones. Only the satellites will be higher and wait longer for a response. But otherwise the speed is no less.
        About the missile defense, if the US fills near-Earth space with its missile defense, which I don’t believe, the economy won’t be able to handle. There are simple solutions, which are neither for them nor for us.

        Musk has already made the HyperLoop. His trains are furrowing the expanses of the Earth and Mars. And electric cars, too, especially for the Russian climate. And we can't forget about our expanses, how many chargers need to be installed there? With an original heating system using a heat pump. This is still suitable for America, but with difficulty
        1. +2
          8 September 2025 08: 58
          What do you mean, 150 tons. And you didn't think that the US can't handle producing such high-tech products in such volumes + Europe can't either. Which means everything will stand idle and will never pay for itself.

          I don't want to guess, time will tell. However, the creation of a means of launching heavy loads into orbit makes it possible to place multi-purpose platforms.
          1. 0
            8 September 2025 18: 29
            Quote: Sensor
            allows for the placement of multi-purpose platforms.

            The main thing is efficient nuclear reactors. We seem to have developed them for space, but in the US and EU "nothing has been done".
            Nuclear reactors have been in use since the 60s, but they are at the level of batteries, not real ones.

            For those who are not in the know, the main problem there is cooling. Where to put the heat in space?

            As it is now, for years now, France has had its rivers run dry, the temperature in them is higher than necessary, and now jellyfish are attacking. Where are the green ones, why is France killing jellyfish, en masse and in a barbaric way!
        2. +1
          11 September 2025 03: 05
          Quote: bya965
          How is it there? 150 tons. Have you ever thought that the US and Europe can’t handle producing such high-tech products in such quantities? This means everything will be idle.

          Here the principle is "appetite comes with eating". Previously, goods for trade were transported on carts, slowly... and now they are driven on huge dry cargo ships and hundred-car trains, quickly! There will be something to shoot into space, if it is relatively inexpensive.
      2. +2
        8 September 2025 13: 37
        For example, I don't believe in a hundred bucks per kilo. Why would I? Reusable Falcons aren't that cheap, especially considering the serial production. With such launch statistics, probably disposable Zenits would have fetched such a price. And space technology is often more expensive than its launch.
        But, of course, the US has enough money. After all, even if you look at how much dividends we withdrew in 2024 and look at how many tons could be launched into orbit with Soyuz and Protons for this money, then this would be enough to launch thousands of tons and fly to Mars, and perhaps more than once. It's not that expensive. request
        1. -1
          9 September 2025 08: 48
          Quote from alexoff
          After all, even if you look at how much dividends we received in 2024 and look at how many tons could be launched into orbit with Soyuz and Protons for this money, it would be enough to launch thousands of tons and fly to Mars, and perhaps more than once. It's not that expensive.

          Every day, to pay pensions - without spending on the Pension Fund!! - 26 billion are needed. Taking into account what was stolen - it may well be that there is not enough for Mars...
    2. -14
      8 September 2025 05: 51
      Yeah, I don't believe it either. I have friends/buddies who got grants from DARPA and IARPA. Google what these agencies are. Not the smartest guys from my friends' companies went to work for these agencies. That's why the level of defense there is very low. There aren't many intellectuals working there, including Musk, no matter how hard he tries and acts like a superhero. In addition, Musk dramatically understates the cost of his projects. He lives exclusively on government grants. Investments in him from private individuals willing to risk their capital are not that big.
      1. 10+
        8 September 2025 06: 09
        Tell me, which of Musk's projects failed, not justifying the investments? And what is so low in the Western defense industry?
        1. -10
          8 September 2025 07: 42
          Or maybe you need the key to the apartment where the money is? Forgive me, but you will peel off from such information and grow uneven hair. Look for it yourself. I will not give up my people to the CIA.
        2. -4
          8 September 2025 09: 04
          Tell me, which of Musk's projects failed?

          see "A Tight Tightrope and Russian Rockets: 13 High-Profile Failures of Elon Musk"
          https://trends.rbc.ru/trends/industry/60b65ce09a79475034c25759
          and by the way, how is he doing with selling home flamethrowers?
          "Elon Musk Lights Up: Why Tesla Founder Sells Flamethrowers"
          https://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/356417-ilon-mask-zazhigaet-zachem-osnovatel-tesla-prodaet-ognemety
      2. 14+
        8 September 2025 06: 45
        Quote: lesya
        Yeah, I don't believe it either.

        Well, I also have friends and acquaintances. laughing
        Their defense industry was really in a rut (despite their aggressiveness and preparation for war with us laughing laughing). The liberals not only promoted LGBT - working for the military was unfashionable and condemned.
        And what does this mean - have you ever thought about it? It means that THEY "haven't started yet", but now they have. Acceleration takes time. And seeing the difference in the civilian sphere, it is easy to understand the possible consequences in the military.
        And whatever Musk lives for - in your opinion - his "not so many intellectuals" have created working products and flying rockets. Not "Soyuz No..."
        And how do his products work - ask the SVO participants who are cursing and dreaming about Starlink.

        Our reality is to hide behind China's back, buying our security by transferring a few advanced technologies and raw materials.
        1. -12
          8 September 2025 06: 57
          Quote from tsvetahaki
          Our reality is to hide behind China's back, buying our security by transferring a few advanced technologies and raw materials.

          Hmm. Your reality is making predictions that don't come true. But this time you've outdone yourself. Yes
        2. -8
          8 September 2025 07: 57
          You are wrong. They won't be able to start. Managers can't do science and engineering. And in their defense industry, it is precisely the managers who dominate, not the engineers and scientists.
          They have long since destroyed their education. They have destroyed scientific schools. For many decades they lived off fresh blood, inviting and highly paying scientists and engineers from abroad. In the 90s, for example, they came to KhAI, through purr-purr with the rector of the institute they got access to the personal files of the employees - engineers and scientists. At that time, there was a branch of the Antonov Design Bureau, and there were promising developments from Soviet times. My close friend played an important role there. He told me the story in detail with great bitterness many years later. So, after reviewing the personal files of the employees, the Americans selected those who interested them. They conducted test interviews and invited all these engineers to their place. And the rector was given only 20000 dollars on the condition that all scientific activity of the institute would be closed for 10 years. Accordingly, they took away all the documentation that interested them. I have already written about this on this resource. These guys were the ones who moved the American defense industry forward.
          Only for some time now American science has not been receiving new personnel from abroad. And imagine, this has caused stagnation. It will be a long time, oh, a long time before they repeat the successes of the Russian Federation in creating fundamentally new weapons.
          1. +5
            8 September 2025 09: 19
            It is only for some time now that American science has stopped receiving new personnel from abroad.

            Don't worry about science in the States, everything is fine with it, judging by the amount of scientific literature published https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/
            The level can be assessed by the prefaces to the articles,
            https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/solid-state-electronics/vol/230/suppl/C
            1. -7
              8 September 2025 09: 23
              You attribute feelings to me that I do not have. You are worried, not me. And not about the successes or failures of science in the USA, but about whether you made the right choice when you emigrated to the West, to Europe. Alas, you made the wrong choice.
              1. +6
                8 September 2025 09: 43
                emigrating to the West in Europe.

                No, I live in Russia, but there was a paradox with scientific literature: American publications are more accessible on the Internet than domestic ones.
              2. +4
                8 September 2025 14: 50
                In Europe, "scientist" and "engineer" have never been synonymous with "loser".
            2. -4
              8 September 2025 13: 50
              https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/
              Well, you could at least have taken the trouble to cite the American publisher, not the Danish/Dutch one. winked
              1. +3
                8 September 2025 14: 20
                Well, you could at least have taken the trouble to cite the American publisher, not the Danish/Dutch one.

                Does the concept of TNC mean anything to you?
                Almost half of foreign scientific periodicals are published by three publishing houses: Elsevier, Springer and Wiley.
                1. 0
                  8 September 2025 15: 08
                  Yes, I know a little about scientific publishing houses, I publish there. winked
                  Only instead of the American wiley, for some reason you decided to call the Dutch Elsiever and the German-English Springer American. Why don't you then attribute Americanness to MDPI, which is Swiss-Chinese? tongue
                  1. -1
                    8 September 2025 15: 58
                    At the company where I worked for a long time, Solid State was popular..., so I refer to them out of old memory, and in the States there is a subsidiary of Elsivier.
                    1. -4
                      8 September 2025 16: 36
                      All these publishing houses consist of one big publisher and a bunch of smaller ones bought up. In Springer, all Russian articles are published through an American office, whose are they? Well, those Springer managers who take a bath in black caviar, judging by the price tags. In my field, Springer and Elsiever consist of a host of such journals. The US science can be brought down by deporting Indians and Chinese, since they do half the work, and white people kick the bucket winked
                      1. -2
                        8 September 2025 16: 53
                        Science in the US can be destroyed by deporting Indians and Chinese, since they do half the work, and white people are just messing around

                        I completely agree with you on this, 80 percent of the authors are Indians, Koreans, Chinese, both in microelectronics, rarely, but I look at them, and in the current area of ​​interest.
                      2. -2
                        8 September 2025 20: 12
                        Pay attention to how many shell-shocked minus-takers there are, they don't know anything, they give me minuses on principle, and you pluses laughing
                      3. +1
                        9 September 2025 02: 55
                        A senseless and merciless reaction, there is such a desire for involvement.
                      4. 0
                        11 September 2025 03: 31
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Notice how many shell-shocked downvoters there are...

                        laughing laughing laughing Made me laugh, gave a plus :))
          2. +4
            8 September 2025 11: 28
            Quote: lesya
            You are wrong. They won't be able to start. Managers can't do science and engineering. And in their defense industry, it is precisely the managers who dominate, not the engineers and scientists.
            They destroyed their education long ago. They destroyed scientific schools.

            Are you sure you mean the USA and not Laos?
          3. The comment was deleted.
    3. -1
      8 September 2025 07: 00
      And the maximum so far has been 20 tons, unsuccessfully, what 150...
    4. +4
      8 September 2025 23: 19
      Quote: bya965
      As always, a capitalist scam multiplied by the American stock game.
      As always, if we don't like reality, we will deny it. We will use irrelevant analogies. We will come up with nonsense that if you don't break the first stage of the rocket at each launch, it won't save you any money, and the reptilians are secretly subsidizing all of this. We won't specify why only SpaceX is suddenly subsidized, and not, for example, the ULA space veterans.
      How is it that the savings on reusable rockets are a fiction, but they are being developed by Roscosmos, several Chinese companies, Rocketlab, Blue Origin, and ULA plans to launch and reuse the engine block.
      It turns out that the space industry around the world is staffed by idiots, because the armchair experts have figured out the scam with reusable rockets, but real specialists still can’t figure it out.
  7. +6
    8 September 2025 05: 59
    Quote: lesya
    Well, you're a smart girl. And space will be ours, don't doubt it. Look how far the Russian Federation has come in 20 years. Remember how quickly after such a monstrous all-Patriotic war our Russian/Soviet people created the I. bomb, and were the first in the world to open space to humanity! Sputnik - 57, only 12 years after the war that destroyed the entire USSR up to the Urals. Gagarin - 61, only 16 years after this terrible war.

    You forget to say under whose leadership such a huge industrial breakthrough took place. And the modern Russian government is very far from the capabilities of Stalin, his entourage, and the people are not comparable to him.
  8. 0
    8 September 2025 06: 05
    "as for the collapse of the USSR, here everything is even simpler - "at the top" they wanted "everything for themselves", and the population "at the bottom" for the most part did not care" - the author wrote about some other country.
    1. +6
      8 September 2025 06: 44
      So -- the USSR didn't collapse? Is the author lying?
      1. +2
        11 September 2025 04: 01
        Quote: UAZ 452
        So -- the USSR didn't collapse? Is the author lying?

        The author is very cleverly disingenuous, to say the least. Because his "conclusion"
        In the USSR, everything is even simpler here – “at the top” they wanted “everything for themselves”, and the population “at the bottom” for the most part didn’t care anymore

        to a much greater extent applies to modern Russia, and not to the USSR. It is now "below" that no one cares: they have finally come to the conclusion that "the people don't decide anything here". The political activity of the people has now fallen to the plinth, unlike the same 1980s, early 1990s.
        As for the top, what did Gorbachev and the members of the then Soviet government gain? Compared to the current masters of the country, of course.
  9. +3
    8 September 2025 06: 22
    The country that is the first to deploy an orbital reconnaissance and strike echelon in space will dominate our planet militarily.

    Starship-Super Heavy - makes it possible to do this, accordingly, a practical country will definitely create a reconnaissance and strike complex in space. And the USA has always been practical.
    China is hot on the heels of the US

    Too exaggerated. China is far behind. The only large-scale rocket they have is the CZ-10 (aka Long March-10), which they are planning to use to conquer the Moon. Compared to the Starship-Super Heavy, this rocket is downright primitive, the level of the late 90s. Well, they have some pictures, but that's all.
    if there is an opportunity to borrow someone else's successful developments, then there is no need to invent a "special path"

    In 1942, Stalin realized the importance of creating an atomic bomb and launched the development of his own, organizing large-scale events to obtain all the information about it. The successful testing of Starship-Super Heavy is like the explosion of an atomic charge in New Mexico on July 16, 1945, but in this case, for many, the importance of this event remained unclear. Xi Jinping organizes ostentatious parades and struts around not realizing that the United States is creating a gun that will end up at his temple.
    1. -2
      8 September 2025 13: 58
      The atomic bomb was a new type of weapon. They learned to launch satellites into orbit a long time ago. It doesn't matter at all what launches it all - a disposable, reusable rocket or a catapult, old or new. The USSR churned out rockets on a conveyor belt and they became cheap. China can easily put its rockets on a conveyor belt and launch at least ten a day, if it wants to.
      1. -1
        8 September 2025 19: 03
        godya=alexoff]The atomic bomb was a new type of weapon. They learned to launch satellites into orbit a long time ago.[/quote]
        An atomic bomb is first and foremost a bomb - a munition that strikes with a shock wave and high temperature. The only new thing is the deadly radioactive radiation. And so it is just a very powerful bomb that replaces thousands of conventional ones. The Starship is of course a missile, like its predecessors, but due to its high payload and versatility it replaces hundreds of missiles.
        [quote=alexoff]China could very well put its own missiles on the assembly line and launch at least ten a day, if it wanted to[/quote]
        They have the desire, but not the opportunity.
        1. -2
          8 September 2025 20: 11
          And so it is just a very powerful bomb replacing thousands of ordinary ones. Starship is of course a missile, like its predecessors, but due to its high payload and versatility it replaces hundreds of missiles.
          hundreds of rockets? Must be very small rockets? So you ignored the question - how many times has the cost of delivery to orbit been reduced due to reusability? winked
          They have the desire, but not the opportunity.
          and what kind of possibilities are there? Some incredible materials?
          And so it’s just a very powerful bomb that replaces thousands of ordinary ones.
          just replacing a few tens of thousands of bombs at a time, yeah
          1. +3
            8 September 2025 23: 36
            Quote from alexoff
            So you ignored the question - how many times has the cost of delivery to orbit been reduced due to reusability?

            The question was not addressed to me, but I will try to answer.
            Presumably, twice as much. The "normal" price of a heavy rocket launch is about $2 million. SpaceX contract prices are usually not disclosed, but some of them do. So, there is one commercial Falcon 100 launch that cost $9 million. They usually don't undercut their competitors, but not by much. And $50 is almost twice as cheap.
            Now keep in mind that SpaceX's goal is to create a system that is not only fully reusable, but also capable of multiple launches in a row just after refueling. The goal is certainly ambitious and far-reaching. But they are getting there.
            1. +1
              9 September 2025 01: 04
              So it will reduce Musk's costs and nothing more. And he sent a three-ton probe a little further than Mars for 100+ million and nothing, although a proton could do it.
              And the question was - how much did the launch price of a disposable Falcon decrease after it became reusable? The answer was 20-30 percent.
        2. 0
          9 September 2025 13: 27
          We also need to add strong radioactive contamination and EMP.

          Hundreds of missiles is still a considerable exaggeration. laughing
          Although 16 starships can easily replace a hundred light RN. But again - the real cost of the launch, including insurance. Space cargo is usually insured. The cost of insurance also depends on the reliability of the means of delivery to orbit. If the "falcons" are OK with this, then the statistics of starship launches are not very positive.

          And a reasonable question arises: what special advantages do Starships have compared to the same Falcons? Larger lifting capacity? Well, if Musk wanted to launch his orbital stations, maybe it would make sense. But for manned flights to Mars or to the satellites of large planets (Europa, Titan), Starships are still not suitable.
          If only for satellite launches... the starships will compete with the falcons? Why?
          It’s clear that the matter is dark.
          1. +1
            10 September 2025 09: 05
            Quote: Illanatol
            We also need to add strong radioactive contamination and EMP.

            These are side effects, very harmful even for the one using the atomic bomb. The main motive for creating the atomic bomb was to replace a thousand conventional bombs with one.
            Starship Super Heavy was also created to replace several rockets.
            Quote: Illanatol
            Starship launch statistics are not very positive

            It does not affect the insurance in any way, since Starship-Super Heavy has not been put into operation and does not conduct commercial launches.
            Quote: Illanatol
            And a reasonable question arises: what special advantages do starships have compared to the same falcons? Larger lifting capacity?

            1. Large lifting capacity. 100 and in the future 150 tons.
            2. Completely reusable.
            Quote: Illanatol
            If only for satellite launches... the starships will compete with the falcons? Why?

            Everything is simple here. Falcon-9 is limited in the mass of satellites launched and their dimensions. Starlink-V3 satellites will weigh 2 tons and will be noticeably larger. Launching them on Falcon-9 will be A-difficult and B-there will be little room. Starlink-V3 will allow full use of Direct to Cell technology, which will lead to a dramatic increase in the number of Starlink subscribers.
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. -1
    8 September 2025 06: 38
    I read a fantastic story)
    1. +7
      8 September 2025 06: 42
      Quote from Mraka
      I read a fantastic story)

      ❝ You came here to write down fairy tales, and we work here to make fairy tales come true! ❞
  12. +9
    8 September 2025 06: 56
    In one thing Mitrofanov is right - the launch of Starship-Super Heavy is indeed an important milestone. In the rest - true to himself. Not a single correct statement/assumption
    1. +5
      8 September 2025 07: 56
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Not a single correct statement/assumption

      What exactly? Key points:
      1. Starship-Super Heavy completes the deployment of the Starlink satellite constellation, turning it into a reliable global communications system.
      2. Starlink becomes a skeleton on which reconnaissance assets, missile defense assets, and possibly strike assets (which is already technically possible) will be built up.
      3. A country that possesses such systems will dominate the entire world.
      What do you think is wrong?
      1. +6
        8 September 2025 08: 13
        Quote: Puncher
        1. Starship-Super Heavy completes the deployment of the Starlink satellite constellation, turning it into a reliable global communications system.

        Wrong. It is not needed for this at all.
        Quote: Puncher
        2. Starlink becomes a skeleton on which reconnaissance assets, missile defense assets, and possibly strike assets (which is already technically possible) will be built up.

        Incorrect. Starlink is a connection, a data transfer, and there is no need to assign it functions that are not inherent to the connection.
        Quote: Puncher
        A country that has such systems will dominate the entire world.

        These capabilities need to be taken from somewhere and superheavy has nothing to do with it. And Starlink has nothing to do with it.
        1. +3
          8 September 2025 09: 07
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Puncher
          1. Starship-Super Heavy completes the deployment of the Starlink satellite constellation, turning it into a reliable global communications system.
          Wrong. It is not needed for this at all.

          Very much needed. Currently, Falcon 9 launches Starlink v2.0 Mini Optimized satellites weighing 800 kg. 550 km. Starship-Super Heavy will launch Starlink V3 weighing 2000 kg. 350 km. Falcon 9 will not be able to launch Starlink V3 in the required quantities.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Incorrect. Starlink is a connection, a data transfer, and there is no need to assign it functions that are not inherent to the connection.

          The main problem with satellites is the feedback with the consumer. It is better to keep a reconnaissance satellite in a low orbit so that it can see everything in high resolution. But in a low orbit it is impossible to conduct continuous observation because the satellite will go into the shadow.
          But if the reconnaissance satellite is equipped with a laser communication system, then it will transmit all the information via Starlink to the consumer, wherever he is, without interruption. And this applies not only to reconnaissance satellites. A laser communication system has already been developed that allows third-party satellites to be connected to Starlink.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          These capabilities need to be taken from somewhere and superheavy has nothing to do with it. And Starlink has nothing to do with it.

          In any system, the most important thing is communication, and Starlink provides it. The Starship-Super Heavy system makes it possible to equip Starlink with heavy satellites with higher energy.
          1. +2
            8 September 2025 09: 37
            Quote: Puncher
            Falcon 9 is currently launching Starlink v2.0 Mini Optimized satellites weighing 800 kg.

            And the first Falcon pulled 21 such satellites into orbit. The older one (which is a ship, not a rocket) is completely unnecessary. A heavy rocket is possible, but far from certain.
            Quote: Puncher
            The main problem with satellites is feedback from the consumer.

            Not at all.
            1. +1
              8 September 2025 09: 53
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              And the first Falcon pulled 21 such satellites into orbit. The older one (which is a ship, not a rocket) is completely unnecessary.

              The first Starlink v1.0 were 250 kg, and Starlink v3 will be 2 tons, F-9 won’t be able to launch many of those.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              The main problem with satellites is feedback from the consumer.
              Not at all.

              What is it?
              1. +1
                8 September 2025 10: 19
                Quote: Puncher
                The first Starlink v1.0 was 250 kg,

                I'm telling you about the Starlink Mini, I took 21 of them from Falcon.
                Quote: Puncher
                What is it?

                That the satellite must have energy reserves for reconnaissance, or optics capable of seeing everything at all times, which is a bit complicated
                1. +1
                  8 September 2025 10: 46
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  I'm telling you about the Starlink Mini, I took 21 of them from Falcon.

                  They are no longer being deployed. Now they are launching Starlink v2.0 Mini Optimized, and then Starlink v3 will be launched. The number of subscribers is growing and the throughput needs to be increased at an accelerated pace.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  That the satellite must have energy reserves for reconnaissance, or optics capable of seeing everything at all times, which is a bit complicated

                  There have been no problems with the energy of modern satellites for a long time. There is nothing complicated about optics either. Modern optical systems of the same businessmen work with a resolution higher than 30 cm. If you are talking about weather conditions, then of course the visible range is not always available. But this only applies to optical reconnaissance. There are RTR satellites, for example, the weather does not interfere with them, or radar surveillance satellites.
                  The problem has always been the ability to receive information in real time. It was necessary to build an intelligence center with antennas receiving information from a satellite, which is quite expensive and not always possible.
                  1. +1
                    8 September 2025 11: 24
                    Quote: Puncher
                    There have been no problems with the energy of modern satellites for a long time

                    They were and remain the same. To monitor the surface 24/7, you need a huge number of active radar reconnaissance satellites, and the power of their radar systems is far beyond the solar batteries. This is an unsolvable problem for now.
                    Quote: Puncher
                    They are no longer being bred.

                    Once again, one Falcon carried 21 satellites, each weighing 800 kg, into orbit.
          2. +1
            8 September 2025 12: 24
            Starship-Super Heavy will launch the 3 kg Starlink V2000 350 km


            You are absolutely right.

            Musk does indeed tie Starship to the deployment of Starlink 3

            Here is his message (May 2025)

            With the version 3 Starlink satellites, which start launching on Starship in 6 to 9 months, we should be able to get latency below 20ms.

            The new, much larger satellites will be at ~350km instead of ~550km altitude, which cuts latency due to speed of light down to ~5ms.


            Musk emphasizes the significant increase in the dimensions of the new Stalin model and directly says that Starship will begin to produce them.

            Starlink 3 offers a whole new level of connectivity, at least on paper.
            For example, network-user throughput is 1 terabyte per second. User-network 160 Gb/sec.
            This is an order of magnitude better than the V2 mini
            https://www.starlink.com/public-files/starlinkProgressReport_2024.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOoqwN-1SdET4Jruh3bEcAZvR5MlXcBV-rJE33yOvQsIC7jkFA9M-
        2. +1
          8 September 2025 09: 53
          Quote: Puncher
          2. Starlink becomes a skeleton on which reconnaissance assets, missile defense assets, and possibly strike assets (which is already technically possible) will be built up.
          Incorrect. Starlink is a connection, a data transfer, and there is no need to assign it functions that are not inherent to the connection.

          Well, here, Puncher is right:
          info - passing through Starlink - can be copied and processed and analyzed...
          1. +1
            8 September 2025 10: 21
            In order to analyze something, you need to receive it. The problem here is not with the transmission of information, but with its reception
            1. +1
              8 September 2025 10: 49
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              The problem here is not with transmitting information, but with receiving it.

              What's the problem? An optical reconnaissance satellite located above Krasnoyarsk transmits data to the network via the Starlink satellite, and a group of analysts in Minnesota (for example) process the images online.
              1. +1
                8 September 2025 11: 32
                Quote: Puncher
                An optical reconnaissance satellite located above Krasnoyarsk transmits data to the network via the Starlink satellite

                At night, in fog, in a thunderstorm...
                Quote: Puncher
                and a group of analysts in Minnesota

                Have you estimated the size of the group to control a front hundreds of kilometers long?
      2. -2
        8 September 2025 08: 46
        Starlink satellites are very small and can be launched by any existing launch vehicle, especially considering their low altitude.
        Everything else is beside the point. If you have the most advanced means of communication, it is not a fact that you will dominate on the battlefield. In addition to communication, you need a lot more. Communication satellites themselves will do a little fighting. By the way, the US already has a lot of them. But even against the Taliban, it did not help much.
        1. +2
          8 September 2025 09: 11
          Quote: Illanatol
          Starlink satellites are very small

          The mass of satellites is growing, Starlink V3 will be 2 tons, and Starship-Super Heavy will be able to launch up to 50 pcs. No other launch vehicle will be able to do this.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Besides communication, a lot more is needed.

          Intelligence and communications - whoever has it gets an advantage.
          1. -1
            8 September 2025 13: 26
            Why did he refuse the little satellites? They were too easy to fall? wink

            Over those who do not have it and all other things being equal.
            Too much dependence on devices can play a cruel joke. There are no communication channels that cannot be interfered with.
            1. +2
              8 September 2025 18: 50
              Quote: Illanatol
              Why did he refuse the little satellites?

              For the same reason that people choose bigger cars.
              Quote: Illanatol
              There are no communication channels that cannot be interfered with.

              Well, try it. It's simple, isn't it? Do you know what you need for this?
              1. 0
                9 September 2025 08: 11
                Many people choose smaller cars for the sake of economy. And, due to the development of microelectronics, satellites, as a rule, become smaller while maintaining functionality.

                Why should I try it? Those who need it, they jam it.
                1. +1
                  10 September 2025 09: 34
                  Quote: Illanatol
                  Many people choose smaller cars for the sake of economy. And, due to the development of microelectronics, satellites, as a rule, become smaller while maintaining functionality.

                  The question of the functionality of this satellite. If you need to track the movement of clouds and nothing more, then a regular CubeSat will do. If you need to monitor a large area of ​​the surface in the highest resolution in the visible and IR range of EM waves, then you need a set of optical tools, a powerful energy source, and even better, a large supply of fuel to support the orbit. This will not fit into the dimensions of the CubeSat. You need a bulky platform. The more electricity consumers you have, the larger the area of ​​​​the solar panels you need. The longer you need the satellite to operate or the ability to maneuver in orbit, the more fuel you need. All this leads to an increase in size and weight.
                  Quote: Illanatol
                  And those who need it, they jam it.

                  No. Starlink is not jammed.
    2. -2
      8 September 2025 08: 54
      One launch is not enough. A full-fledged exit into orbit is needed, and there was none. This test flight was suborbital.
      Well, here's the end of the flight:
      "Despite damage to part of the coating, Starship remained controllable and flew as planned. It performed a final maneuver, simulating a landing on the waters of the Indian Ocean. After touchdown, the device fell on its side and exploded."

      https://hi-tech.mail.ru/news/132753-raketu-starship-zapustili-v-desyatyj-raz-chto-izvestno/

      Sorry, but such a flight can only be considered partially successful. lol
      1. +3
        8 September 2025 23: 50
        Quote: Illanatol
        A full-fledged exit into orbit is needed,
        StarShip is not being launched into orbit on purpose, it could have done so long ago without any problems, it has plenty of fuel. At this stage, going into orbit will not give the developers any information, and if it fails there, it will be unclear how to bring it down from there and where it will fall itself, so it is being launched on a suborbital trajectory with a planned landing in the Indian Ocean.
        1. 0
          9 September 2025 09: 15
          It's not about the fuel reserves, but about the operating mode of the engines. It is only in the normal mode when at least the orbit has been reached. And the transition to the "second space" is a separate story.
          After all, the "senior ships" were supposedly going to Mars, or has Musk already cancelled this "plan"?
          1. +3
            9 September 2025 10: 08
            Quote: Illanatol
            It's not about the fuel reserves, but about the operating mode of the engines.

            What? What "engine mode"? I would watch at least one stream to understand what is going on there. The streams are well commented, plus information about altitude and speed is displayed.
            Quote: Illanatol
            Well, the transition to the "second space" is a separate story.

            What "separate song"? Acceleration to any specified speed is exactly the same. The ship accelerates to 26400 km/h (7,3 km/s) and reaches an altitude of 180 km. Reaching 8 km/s and a higher altitude is only another 40 seconds of engine operation, nothing more. They could do this if they wanted, but it will not give anything to the developers. They are checking critical things - for example, the operation of heat protection upon entry into the atmosphere. And flying in a vacuum at a speed of 8 km/s is no different for the ship's systems from flying at 7,3.
            1. 0
              9 September 2025 13: 04
              Engine operating mode - how close their thrust is to maximum and their operating time. Alas, even the most heat-resistant materials tend not to withstand high temperatures in rocket nozzles. The second cosmic is 11.2 km/sec, the speed to leave Earth orbit and go to Mars, for example.
  13. +3
    8 September 2025 07: 26
    It's a pity the article doesn't end with the words:
    "And in the near future, I'm not afraid to say it, comrades, an intergalactic chess tournament will take place in Vasyuki!"
  14. +3
    8 September 2025 07: 45
    Times are changing, reusable rockets have become a reality, although not so long ago it was a fantasy. The mockery of Musk began with Falcon 1, saying that experience and a school in the field of rocket engineering are needed. But everything will repeat itself - personnel decide everything (well, and money), Korolev was able to do the impossible, and Musk too, the organizers of the solution to the problem - they are called geniuses hi
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 09: 19
      It would be better if the rockets remained disposable, but capable of delivering the crew and cargo to Mars in 2-3 months with any configuration of the planets' positions. And so - purely for business, some reduction of costs, nothing more. So earthlings will hang around in the orbits of their home planet, there will be no further progress, only for "tractors". Even the Moon is too tough for real exploration.
      1. 0
        10 September 2025 07: 52
        The sad reality request Enthusiasm after the first flight into space, there was a time and life was on the rise... It turned out that the technologies of our civilization are dead-end. Effective thermonuclear reactors that were created by earthly scientists and engineers turned out to be a dream. It is one thing to detonate a bomb (a bad thing, not a tricky thing), but a reliable and safe reactor and energy conversion system is another thing. Antigravity and healing capsules are not even a hint of this, our science is at the level of the Stone Age. hi
  15. 0
    8 September 2025 07: 59
    Starship-Super Heavy's Successful Flight: A New Reality That Will Change Everything

    Yes, we are on the threshold of change...
    if He flies as Musk says, then soon we will buy Starlinks and "for free" every remote village will have real Internet... and no "wall" will be able to fence us off from the rest of the world, however, this is also what awaits China with its "wall"...
    1. -3
      8 September 2025 08: 18
      Quote: Dedok
      ...every remote village will have real internet...

      Kosher Yes
      1. +3
        8 September 2025 08: 29
        and you are amused by this information:
        The Minister of Defense was shown some satellite communications equipment used in the SVO. In reality, 99% of these are Starlinks with Wildbirds, which almost everyone in the video knows, but the report needs to be filmed
        ?
        https://voenhronika.ru/publ/vojna_na_ukraine/08_09_2025_zhestkie_kadry_boev_iz_zony_specialnoj_voennoj_operacii_na_ukraine_pro_tekushhie_problemy_s_fpv_dronami_v_vs_rf_15_video/60-1-0-16779
        1. -3
          8 September 2025 08: 30
          Quote: Dedok
          and does this info amuse you?

          Well, they use trophies. Why not use enemy equipment against the enemy? I don't see any reason not to do it.
    2. -3
      8 September 2025 08: 41
      What's stopping you from buying a "starlink" now? Your finances don't allow it? And even you put "free" in quotation marks, which is true. And will villagers (not only in our country) have enough money in their pockets to pay for this "free" Internet?
      Poverty is a better barrier than any ideological barrier, however.
      1. -1
        8 September 2025 09: 50
        What's stopping you from buying a "starlink" now? Finances don't allow it?

        I wrote - we are on the threshold of change...!
        and I will have time to see this, as well as you...
        another thing is that you don’t recognize what you saw...
        it's easier this way...
        1. 0
          8 September 2025 13: 39
          Well, I heard something similar about controlled thermonuclear fusion 40 years ago. So where is it?
          I do admit that it really exists. But Musk is good at making promises that he then happily forgets about.

          Changes... compare the futurologists' forecasts for our time, made half a century ago, with our reality. We should already be exploring Mars, but in reality there is no one even on the Moon. And it is unknown when someone's base will appear there. But Musk promised the first expedition to Mars already in 2026 (earlier - in 2024).
          Well, do you dare to say that he will fulfill this promise, or have you not completely lost your mind?
          No "Starships" or "Falcons" are suitable for interplanetary manned flights. Just as a cannon is not suitable for a flight to the Moon (according to Jules Verne).
          1. +1
            8 September 2025 23: 58
            Quote: Illanatol
            But Musk promised the first expedition to Mars as early as 2026

            He didn't promise, the news broke it. He wrote that hopes send Starship to Mars, and this was meant without a crew. There was no talk of any "expedition" in 2026.
            But Musk is good at making promises,

            In fact, he mainly talks about plans and wishes, and our media presents this as "promises". And it begins: "Well, he promised, but didn't do it."
            1. -3
              9 September 2025 08: 37
              Why the hell is he even saying that? A plan is more than a promise, by the way.
              In short, he is just a chatterbox, because he is talking about something that is completely unrealistic.
              Not a businessman, but just a swindler, like Ostap Bender.
              He was also a master at talking about how New Vasyuki would become the capital of the Galaxy. laughing
              1. +5
                9 September 2025 09: 54
                Quote: Illanatol
                Why the hell is he even saying this?

                He wants to and he says, what's the problem? Look, in the middle of the last century people also dreamed of flying to the stars. And Musk dreams of flying to Mars. There's nothing wrong with that, even if it doesn't work out in the end (but I hope it does).
                Quote: llanatol
                Not a businessman, but just a swindler, like Ostap Bender.

                Well, well, a swindler. Last year he launched more payloads into space than the rest of the world combined. And 20 years ago he was a pauper. A man who talks a lot, but at the same time does a lot, has the moral right to dream.
                1. -1
                  9 September 2025 13: 18
                  Who dreamed of flying to the stars, Korolev? Science fiction writers can dream as much as they want, but Musk is not a science fiction writer and he spoke and continues to speak about the exploration of Mars quite seriously and, under his "Martian dreams", tries to squeeze money out of the gullible.

                  Well, the hopes of the young men are nourished. I am sure that nothing will come of it. To implement something like this, a real technological leap is needed, ships are needed that are capable of developing speeds of at least 300 km/sec, providing constant (albeit reduced) gravity on board and the proper level of anti-radiation protection.
                  Well, maybe you can fly there, plant a flag. But in terms of real exploration, even the Moon is beyond anyone's capabilities, sour grapes.

                  Musk is not entirely independent, he is just a screen for NASA and the Pentagon. Very convenient. The state gets all the goodies, and Musk bears the bruises and bumps. In addition, Musk's "private initiative" makes it easy to bypass some restrictions in terms of space, formalized by treaties, because they initially concerned only states, and he is, as it were, a private person.
                  You can be a technical genius and a swindler at the same time.

                  Well, he would dream privately. But he is ready to involve third parties in his sweet dreams, essentially adventures.
                  If you were offered to fly to Mars as part of a colonization mission, would you agree? Or would you limit yourself to verbal support, sitting on your sofa? After all, taking a one-way ticket is scary, isn't it?
    3. 0
      8 September 2025 09: 37
      Quote: Dedok
      and no "wall" will be able to separate us from the rest of the world, however, this is also what awaits China with its "wall"

      In this regard, Musk is cautious. Starlink does not work in China and will not work. But this is again his initiative, everything can change. By the way, China is quite loyal to him, perhaps this is mutual.
      1. -1
        8 September 2025 09: 56
        Musk is cautious in this regard.

        Musk's caution just shows that EVERYTHING can happen suddenly...
        1. +1
          8 September 2025 09: 56
          Quote: Dedok
          Musk's caution just shows that EVERYTHING can happen suddenly...

          That's true. He turned it on in Iran.
  16. -6
    8 September 2025 08: 01
    But all this crap can be knocked off the ground with less expense...
  17. +4
    8 September 2025 08: 29
    Since the beginning of 2025, the Americans have carried out 58% of launches, the Chinese 25%, the New Zealanders (most likely the Americans) 6%, and ours 5%.
    In terms of payload launched into orbit, the US accounts for more than 80% of the world's.
    All rockets are heavy Falcon 9. We only have heavy Angara 1.2, the rest are light and medium.
    1. +4
      8 September 2025 17: 22
      It's all sad. And it's unlikely that there will be any changes for the better.
    2. 0
      9 September 2025 00: 02
      You can immediately see the expert... laughing Angara 1.2 is a light class launch vehicle...
      1. 0
        9 September 2025 08: 39
        The hangar has a block design. So it can be made into a light, medium and heavy class launch vehicle by adding additional engines.
        1. 0
          10 September 2025 12: 27
          Well, Angara 1.2 is a light-class launch vehicle.
  18. -5
    8 September 2025 08: 37
    It already exists – it’s Starlink, but it will be even better, more secure, more reliable.


    Nope. Musk promised free internet to everyone in the world, and where is it? Who actually uses it? Certainly not the whole world. The same is true for access to his launch vehicle. It may be inexpensive, but only for the Yankees themselves. Musk is currently openly dumping to squeeze competitors out of the market, and then he will raise prices. And can we trust the claims that the reusability of the "Starships" will dramatically reduce the cost of launching payloads into orbit? The same was previously claimed for the "shuttles", but what happened in practice? Has their reusability significantly reduced the cost of such services compared to our "Soyuz" and "Proton"?

    So all this is still fairy tales. Near-Earth space will not become cheap anytime soon.
    1. +6
      8 September 2025 09: 23
      Quote: Illanatol
      Musk promised free internet to everyone in the world and where is it?

      He never promised anything like that. Starlink was announced by him as a source of funds for a flight to Mars.
      Quote: Illanatol
      Who actually uses it?

      Today, there are more than 7 million clients in 150 countries.
      Musk is currently openly dumping prices to squeeze competitors out of the market.

      There is no one even close in terms of the number of subscribers, there is no one to squeeze out.
      Quote: Illanatol
      And can we trust the claims that the reusability of the "Starships" will allow us to sharply reduce the cost of launching payloads into orbit?

      Of course you can, Falcon 9 has already done it.
      Quote: Illanatol
      Previously, the same was claimed for the "shuttles", but what turned out to be true in practice?

      Of all the US heavy launch vehicles, the Space Shuttle was the cheapest, cheaper than Saturn, Titan and Delta.
      Quote: Illanatol
      So all this is still fairy tales. Near-Earth space will not become cheap anytime soon.

      You definitely won't notice it.
      1. -3
        8 September 2025 13: 21
        Musk Doesn't Offer Free Internet, But He Has 7 Million Clients laughing

        The discussion was about squeezing out competitors in the space launch and cargo delivery market.

        Don't confuse the real cost and the stated price, which can be drawn up in any way for the sake of dumping.

        Why are you comparing only with American launch vehicles? And how did it happen that American companies launched their satellites on foreign launch vehicles?

        Of course, I won't notice. Just as I won't notice the Yankees' flights to Mars, due to their absence. Although according to Musk's promises (in 2016), the first flight to Mars was supposed to take place in 2024.
        1. +4
          8 September 2025 18: 45
          Quote: Illanatol
          Musk Doesn't Offer Free Internet, But He Has 7 Million Clients

          Prove your thesis that Musk promised free internet. When and where did he say this.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Don't confuse the real cost and the stated price, which can be drawn up in any way for the sake of dumping.

          Please back up your claim. Provide figures to prove your case.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Why are you only comparing it with American RNs?

          And who to compare with? In the 70-80s, the USA and the USSR competed in the space services market? Or name at least one non-American heavy-class launch vehicle as of 1981 that could compete with the US system.
          Quote: Illanatol
          And how did it happen that American companies launched their satellites on foreign launch vehicles?

          What do you mean? Is someone limiting them? American private companies launched/are launching satellites using Indian, Japanese, and ESA rockets. NASA uses ESA rockets.
          Maybe you don't know that Americans buy European and Japanese cars in addition to American cars. And no one forbids them to do so. Are you surprised?
          Quote: Illanatol
          Of course, I won't notice. Just as I won't notice the Yankees' flights to Mars, due to their absence.

          Well, who will forbid you? As if your opinion influences the process.
          1. -2
            9 September 2025 08: 33
            It is impossible to provide such figures, proven dumping is punishable. But for the sake of big profit, big business will do anything.

            In Soviet times there was no competition and there could not be. But in post-Soviet times, American companies made full use of our "protons", although shuttles were still in use. And they also began to buy our RD-180 (a cut-down half of the most powerful RD-170 liquid-propellant rocket engine), although they supposedly had F-1 (for Saturn-5).

            Nobody forbids Yankees to buy imported cars. But this is evidence of their higher quality and competitiveness. That is how Detroit turned from the automobile capital of the USA into a depressive town, a ready-made scenery for filming dystopias.

            How can you influence a process that is absent? No way. Theoretically, you can carry out a one-time manned flight to Mars, just stick a flag in there. But the real development of another planet, the creation of a permanent base on it, with existing technologies, "chemical" rockets (speeds less than 20 km/sec) is impossible even theoretically.
            And spacecraft with engines based on other physical principles will not appear anytime soon. Musk himself, it seems, is not even working in this direction.
            1. +2
              10 September 2025 09: 25
              Quote: Illanatol
              It is impossible to provide such figures, proven dumping is punishable. But for the sake of big profit, big business will do anything.

              And who is he being punished by? SpaceX does not operate at a loss, but at the same time it has bent its main competitors, Russia, India and Japan. Just please do not cite the opinion of "experts" who claim that SpaceX is fully financed by the State Department. This is stupid and has no evidence.
              Quote: Illanatol
              In Soviet times there was no competition and there could not be. But in post-Soviet times, American companies made full use of our "protons", although shuttles were still in use.

              The Space Shuttle system was created long before the collapse of the USSR and no one could even imagine that the Soviet Proton would work for the USA. So in the 80s, the Space Shuttle was actually relatively inexpensive. 300-400 million per launch is like Atlas-5, given that the mass carried out is much greater. For medium loads, there was Delta-2, which, by the way, was the workhorse of both NASA and the Pentagon.
              Quote: Illanatol
              But this is a testament to their higher quality and competitiveness. That's how Detroit turned from the automobile capital of the United States into a depressed town.

              Assuming this, no one in the US prohibited citizens from buying imported goods and using only genuine American ones.
              Quote: Illanatol
              But the actual development of another planet, the creation of a permanent base on it, with existing technologies, “chemical” rockets (speeds less than 20 km/sec) is impossible even theoretically.

              In 1492, Christopher Columbus set out on the 200-ton carrack Santa María to find a western route to China. On a frankly flimsy vessel 24 meters long, under sail, without GPS, without desalination, without refrigeration machines for storing food, without means of communication, without fire-fighting systems, without drainage devices... Everyone said it was suicide and they were frankly right.
              1. 0
                11 September 2025 14: 24
                No one, if it benefits more than just SpaceX.

                The shuttle flight was somewhat more expensive. 300 million is the estimated cost, assuming that the shuttle would last for 100 launches. On average, 27 launches (135 launches for 5 ships). And most of the cargo was delivered not by the "shuttles", but by the same "Atlases" with engines bought from "Rashka".

                They didn't ban them. But they raised import duties on foreign cars. Which didn't help, though.

                Columbus was looking for India. There were three ships: "Santa Maria", "Pinta" and "Nina". And it was a reconnaissance mission, Columbus did not even think about the development of new territories.
                And in general the analogy is lame. Long sea voyages existed before Columbus, even in ancient Egypt.
                Yes, the ships were not the most advanced. During the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese built much larger and more advanced ones, and made a number of long voyages across the Indian and Pacific Oceans. The Chinese had much greater opportunities to colonize new territories. But they decided not to do this, primarily because they considered it unprofitable.

                Okay, why do I think it is impossible to truly explore other celestial bodies (excluding the Moon).
                1. Real colonization and development of another planet implies the creation of an autonomous base on the surface or at least in orbit for a long period, measured in tens of years.
                2. All experiments (under terrestrial conditions!) to create a closed model of the biosphere, ensuring the autonomous existence of even a small group of people, have failed miserably. This has turned out to be impossible and will remain so for at least another 30 years.
                3. Consequently, a base on Mars (or elsewhere) will require constant and regular transport communications with Earth to provide everything necessary.
                4. With the current speeds of space flights, this is technically impossible. Even with the optimal (closest) location of the Earth and Mars, the flight takes about a year. With other options ("oversun") it can take up to five years.
                5. There are no resources that would even partially pay for the existence of an extraterrestrial base in such a scenario. No one will invest trillions of dollars in such a dubious and unprofitable enterprise.
                6. There will be no real exploration of other planets in the foreseeable future. Even the Moon is in question by the end of this century.
                7. No new reality, most of humanity's space activities will be limited to near-Earth orbits. "Tractors" on other planets are just reconnaissance, nothing more.
                1. +1
                  15 September 2025 07: 36
                  Quote: Illanatol
                  Okay, why do I think it is impossible to truly explore other celestial bodies (excluding the Moon).

                  You can roll out a long list of obstacles to your arguments. But you have to start. It will take many years and resources. There will be many victims.
                  You and I can argue endlessly whether it is necessary or not. But time will tell how far Musk will go.
                  1. 0
                    15 September 2025 08: 54
                    Whether it is necessary or not - those who have thick and sufficient money will decide. Musk may be a multi-billionaire, but he himself cannot even handle the development of the Moon. And who is ready to invest in such an expensive and long-term program? Investors need profit and preferably as quickly as possible. There will be few willing to wait for a return for half a century. And where will the profit come from? From helium-3 on the same Moon? Well, for now it is practically impossible to use it (there are no thermonuclear power plants), and it may turn out that it is easier and cheaper to obtain helium-3 in terrestrial conditions using nuclear transmutation of elements.
                    So it won't be long before apple trees on Mars bloom.
                    And Musk himself may well have some earthly problems. He might have to develop the Chinese space program with his technologies.

                    Or "they don't take people like that as teikunauts"? laughing
                    1. +1
                      15 September 2025 09: 28
                      Quote: Illanatol
                      Musk may be a multi-billionaire, but he himself can’t even handle the exploration of the Moon.

                      He plans to finance the flight to Mars through Starlink and commercial launches. He is moving confidently in both directions.
                      Quote: Illanatol
                      It would be a shame if he had to use his technologies to develop the Chinese space program.

                      I suppose he received such offers. But apparently he refused. At least he is developing spaceports in the USA.
                      1. 0
                        15 September 2025 13: 47
                        Well, with such profits he will have to save for another 50 years, if not more.

                        And he is subjective and independent in such a matter, are you sure? They simply won't let him go to the Chinese. He is too closely connected with NASA and the Pentagon.
        2. +4
          9 September 2025 00: 10
          Quote: Illanatol
          Don't confuse the real cost and the stated price, which can be drawn up in any way for the sake of dumping.

          Are the adherents of holy dumping aware of the following things:
          1) Dumping is illegal in the US. ULA, which has almost lost commercial launches because of SpaceX, would have happily sued them long ago and won.
          2) Dumping does not bring profit, but losses. It makes sense only for a quick capture of the market with compulsory subsequent price increases. You can dump for a short time, but you can't dump for 10 years. If you try, you'll end up like Transaero.
          1. -3
            9 September 2025 08: 23
            1. If it is possible to prove the fact of dumping, which is very difficult, by the way. Calculating real operating costs is very difficult if the company cheats with reporting.
            2. If you play the long game, it might pay off. Since "starships" are already bringing nothing but losses (there hasn't been a single commercial launch yet), this is completely unimportant.
            Transaero is purely an air carrier. Musk has a multi-profile concern. He can cover losses from one core activity with profits from another (selling Tesla electric cars, for example). And it is no coincidence that this genius has recently become interested in cryptocurrency mining. Apparently, the costs turned out to be higher than expected, so he has to do that too. Well, since Trump himself is doing business on cryptocurrencies, then why not?
            1. +3
              9 September 2025 09: 39
              Quote: Illanatol
              2. If you play for the long term, it might pay off.

              The main intrigue has not been revealed: when will this bright future without competitors finally arrive, when will it be possible to skim the cream off dumping?
              The main competitor, ULA, although it lost the open launch market, lives on military contracts, successfully tested a new heavy rocket (Vulcan). New competitors have appeared - Blue Origin with the New Glenn rocket (was the first launch), Rocketlab is preparing the Neutron rocket, plus several smaller startups.
              If the purpose of the alleged dumping was to get rid of competitors, then SpaceX spent 10 years flushing money down the toilet. But for some reason they have enough money to develop infrastructure and develop a new revolutionary system.
              1. -1
                11 September 2025 13: 52
                Probably when Musk's company learns to launch cargo at a price of 200 bucks per kg. Or are you ready to admit that this will never happen? laughing

                So, SpaceX are supposedly leaders in the number of commercial cargoes or not? That is, they are moving towards monopoly, 80% of the market (or more) already belongs to them.
                But Musk is not only involved in space. And what, among SpaceX shareholders there are no state structures to which the losses can be shifted? NASA, for example?

                SpaceX
                SpaceU
                Space*** laughing
      2. 0
        8 September 2025 14: 45
        Of course you can, Falcon 9 has already done it.
        and how many times?
  19. +5
    8 September 2025 09: 13
    did not hesitate to completely copy the successful American bomber B-29, which became our Tu-4

    There may be a problem with this. To copy the B-29, they took a copy of a fully functional aircraft that had accidentally ended up in the USSR (there were several of them), disassembled it, measured it, and described it. And they still had to install some of their own systems. And with a missile, it won't be that easy.
    1. +1
      8 September 2025 14: 47
      The rocket is actually simpler, Musk has posted a lot of things on the Internet. Just go ahead and do it. It's simple - what to transport? Do we have so many satellites? We'll take them out on one flight in a year and that's it request
  20. -1
    8 September 2025 09: 24
    Hi!
    Like let's conquer space Elon Musk will say, but then he will launch many orbital satellites at once and strike satellites and again will blackmail many??
  21. +3
    8 September 2025 09: 37
    "In Russia, this event not only went unnoticed, but it didn't attract much attention either - just ordinary news."
    No, it didn't work. Our media just tried not to advertise it too much. Because, with the falling "Penguins" and the like, the USA is developing and moving forward, for better or worse, and we have nothing to respond with except the catchphrase of a certain Mr. Rogozin. We're still cutting out the trishka's coat of Soviet cosmonautics, which is not eternal and will soon be all over, and we hope for the hypothetical Chinese, that they'll be with us "kaaak...!"
  22. +1
    8 September 2025 09: 44
    All these fantasies (about 100 dollars per kilogram and 30 thousand tons into orbit per year) will end in failure even worse than the fantasies about the already packed shuttle.
    It turns out that there are still people in Russia who continue to admire stupid American threats like the next Star Wars, domes, etc. Worthy heirs of the invincible Mikhail Sergeyevich and his friend Boris.
  23. +1
    8 September 2025 09: 55
    I will add a drop of skepticism, although I have great sympathy for the forward striving and new developments.
    For the first time, the fully reusable Starship spacecraft and its fully reusable first stage Super Heavy have successfully flown. Yes, it can be said that both the first and second stages did not land on their launch pads without sustaining damage, but splashed down in the ocean

    At one time, the Shuttles were looked at in the same way, and they seemed to have confirmed their reusability and reliability. But where are they now? The same could happen to the Starships. It seems to me that splashdown is not a successful completion of the flight, but just an opportunity to fish the apparatus out of the water to study the cause of the unsuccessful landing. How often will they have to splashdown? Plus, the question remains - to what extent will this reusable stage have to be updated before a new launch? The actual costs for this may be higher than the calculated ones. And in reality, there has not been a single completely successful launch. So we'll see ...
    1. +1
      8 September 2025 13: 32
      Quote from cpls22
      At one time, the Shuttles were looked at in the same way, and it seemed they had confirmed their reusability and reliability. But where are they now?
      The reason for the high cost of the Shuttles was not their reusability, that's a myth (if they were disposable, the entire budget for one launch would have been spent), but the huge "parasitic" mass of the Shuttle itself, which had to be launched into space each time, along with the astronauts (1 people - already 7 kg, the carrying capacity of a light launch vehicle is so-so), supplies, and other systems that are absent in conventional launch vehicles, etc.
      An example of excellent reusability is the Falcon 9. 133 launches last year (almost as many as the Shuttles in all years), and more than 100 this year.
      Quote from cpls22
      It seems to me that splashdown is not a successful completion of the flight, but just an opportunity to fish the device out of the water to study the reason for the unsuccessful landing. How often will they have to splashdown?
      They are only landing on water now. Landing on ground platforms will be in the future. I already wrote above that SpaceX uses an iterative approach, working out technology after technology, and not everything at once. This is due to the enormous complexity of the complex.
      Quote from cpls22
      Plus, the question remains: to what extent is this reusable stage forced to be updated before a new launch?
      On Falcon 9, all of this is processed, there is no trace of a complete overhaul. Moreover, the number of launches confirms this. With 133 launches per year, it is physically impossible to overhaul so many stages. And many of them fly dozens of times.
      1. 0
        8 September 2025 14: 10
        But we weren't talking about Falcon 9, but about the "new super-heavy rocket Starship."
        And Falcons, I believe, have become their “workhorse”, just like our “Soyuz”, only reusable.
        1. +1
          8 September 2025 19: 31
          Yes, that's right.
          But when creating Starship, SpaceX is focusing on its Falcon 9, as an extremely successful project, on the vast experience of its operation, and not on the Shuttles, as a project with a completely different concept.
          1. 0
            8 September 2025 20: 40
            Quote: Infinity

            When creating Starship, SpaceX is focusing on its Falcon 9, as an extremely successful project, based on the vast experience of its operation.

            But Starship is still much more powerful and larger, it is unlikely that it would be possible to simply copy the solutions there. How do these giants tolerate swimming? To what extent the experience of using Falcon 9 is applicable to the new rocket is a question that has yet to be answered. Let's see, it's interesting. Yes
            1. +3
              9 September 2025 00: 21
              Quote from cpls22
              How do these giants tolerate bathing?

              They don't transfer them at all, but they won't need it in the future. It's only at the development stage that they are dropped into the ocean.
              The next, 3rd version of Starship has already been equipped with design elements that will be caught by the tower during landing, similar to the first stage. Apparently, they will soon test the ship's capture.
              The first stage has already been caught three times and relaunched once after that.
          2. 0
            11 September 2025 13: 44
            Quote: Infinity
            Yes, that's right.
            But when creating Starship, SpaceX is focusing on its Falcon 9, as an extremely successful project, on the vast experience of its operation, and not on the Shuttles, as a project with a completely different concept.


            It is not very well visible and not fully enough, otherwise why is there such a striking difference in the technical reliability of the two systems?
      2. 0
        9 September 2025 09: 04
        Quote: Infinity
        The reason for the high cost of the Shuttles was not their reusability, that's a myth (if they were disposable, the entire budget for one launch would have been spent), but the huge "parasitic" mass of the Shuttle itself, which had to be launched into space each time, along with the astronauts (1 people - already 7 kg, the carrying capacity of a light launch vehicle is so-so), supplies, and other systems that are absent in conventional launch vehicles, etc.


        The insured value of the shuttles is 10-12 billion dollars each, the launch cost is 0.8-1.0 billion dollars.
        Each astronaut carries approximately 1 ton, including the life support system.

        The system did not justify itself, that is true. The shuttle's TTU could have been easily upgraded to a full-fledged launch vehicle (like our Energia), which would have launched about 70 tons into orbit. But the shuttle could launch no more than 30 tons, since the rest was the shuttle itself. The shuttles were planned to be maneuverable in orbit, but they had too little fuel for this. The domestic Buran had more maneuverability, but it also turned out to be not very necessary.

        An example of excellent reusability is the Falcon 9. 133 launches last year (almost as many as the Shuttles in all years), and more than 100 this year.


        And how many of them are in operation? According to minimum estimates, at least 16 pieces, and the same number have been decommissioned. According to some data, the number of stages produced for this launch vehicle is in the hundreds, which casts a shadow on their reusability.
        It is not necessary to disassemble if you can replace it with a new one.
        1. 0
          9 September 2025 15: 40
          Quote: Illanatol
          The insured value of the shuttles is 10-12 billion dollars each, the launch cost is 0.8-1.0 billion dollars.
          Each astronaut carries approximately 1 ton, including the life support system.
          Well, yes, that's what I was talking about, I was just too lazy to look for the numbers. hi By the way, in the side boosters, only the housings, electronics and several auxiliary systems were reusable. And solid fuel is several times more expensive than liquid fuel.
          That's why I always say that you shouldn't compare modern reusable launch vehicles with the Space Shuttle.
          Quote: Illanatol
          The system has not justified itself, that is true.
          According to the initial economic calculations and the planned number of launches - yes. But one cannot fail to note the unique capabilities of the Shuttles. The same satellite repairs, servicing of the Hubble, a huge role in the construction of the ISS (only they could deliver and assemble the ISS truss structures, even our Rassvet module was also delivered by Atlantis).

          Quote: Illanatol
          The system did not justify itself, that is true. The shuttle TTU could have been completely upgraded to a full-fledged RN (like our "Energia"), which would have launched about 70 tons into orbit.
          There you can only take side parts and RS-25 from the Shuttles. laughing Unlike Energia, where Buran was only a payload variant, the Shuttle had three RS-3 hydrogen liquid-propellant rocket engines.
          But to some extent, that's what happened: the SLS lateral boosters were taken from the Shuttles, only slightly lengthened. Moreover, Artemis-1 used the same segments that were left over from the Shuttles.
          And RS-25, of which there are 1 on the 4st stage of SLS.
          Quote: Illanatol
          And how many of them are in operation? According to minimum estimates, at least 16 pieces, and the same number have been decommissioned. According to some data, the number of stages produced for this launch vehicle is in the hundreds, which casts a shadow on their reusability.
          It is not necessary to disassemble if you can replace it with a new one.
          Each of them has a number, you can look them up. And you can't cheat with them. After all, the FAA monitors this, and very closely. Last year, after the landing of the first stage, there was a leak of pyrophoric liquid, while the launch vehicle delivered the payload to the specified orbit. And the FAA suspended Falcon 9 launches, albeit for a few days. Another example: the second stage, after a successful launch, did not leave orbit to prevent debris from forming. Again, a stoppage of flights and an investigation. But ULA was forgiven for the destruction of the nozzle during the launch of Vulcan. In any case, Musk is now in conflict with the entire political system, and no one will forgive him for this. And for competitors, the same ULA, SpaceX is like a bone in the throat.
          1. 0
            11 September 2025 08: 59
            Saturn V could replace four shuttle flights in one flight, which would also be more economical.

            Werner von Braun was against using TTU in general. Actually, if the Yankees really had F-1 with 500 tons of thrust, they were not really needed. But for some reason the Yankees refused F-1, although the statistics of their use were quite positive.

            Buran was not just a PN. It turned on its engines at the final stage of entering orbit. But it had more fuel left in orbit, which was a definite plus, since it gave more room for maneuver.
            The essence of the shuttles was not only that they were reusable, but also that they were capable of maneuvering in orbit, changing altitude, trajectory, etc.

            And it wasn't about taking something from the shuttles (since the concept itself was still raw), but about creating a new heavy launch vehicle based on the booster block, since the Saturn-5 was no longer satisfactory. Equip the external tank with engines and install the ship itself on top (and not on the side, like the shuttle, which is far from optimal in terms of centering).

            In any case, the Falcons are inferior to the Shuttles in terms of reusability, at least for now. The average flight time of the Shuttles is 27 flights. The most reusable stage of the Falcons has been in space only 19 times.
    2. 0
      8 September 2025 13: 44
      They didn't confirm it. The shuttles were designed to fly 100 times each. None came close to that number. And two were lost due to technical problems and poor maintenance. That's why the program was shut down.
    3. 0
      11 September 2025 13: 46
      "Challenger", "Columbia"... well, yes, "the human factor". lol
  24. 0
    8 September 2025 10: 12
    I would like to draw attention to one technical point. It is impossible to "drop" anything from orbit. To do this, the orbital velocity must be reduced. Therefore, a means of destruction from orbit cannot be a kinetic dummy. It must be a rocket with a powerful engine, otherwise targeting becomes an unsolvable task. Even if a kinetic dummy is given a vertical speed of 1 km/sec due to momentum, then when falling from a height of 300 km, its horizontal deviation on the earth's surface will be 2400 km, and during the fall, it will experience colossal lateral loads when passing through dense layers of the atmosphere, distorting the trajectory of the fall from the intended target.
  25. +4
    8 September 2025 10: 12
    I worked in a space research institute (Research Institute of Physical Measurements) and a design bureau (OKB Fakel) - 1983-2012. These were essentially budget development offices, sometimes in an extremely brazen form. The public was clearly divided into two castes - simple techies and those involved in the division of the dough. The piloting of the public involved in the dough was such that at the grassroots level the only way out was sometimes to make falsifications.

    "Our Space Industry. A Look at the Industry's Problems from the Position of an Ordinary Developer"
    https://habr.com/ru/articles/442846/

    "Our space industry... What if we look at the industry's problems from a geek's perspective?"
    https://habr.com/ru/articles/472326/

    "Soviet and post-Soviet research institutes and design bureaus as a conveyor belt for the destruction of development resources"
    https://habr.com/ru/articles/801001/

    "The decomposition (prostitution) of engineering activity as the key reason for the collapse of the Soviet system"
    https://habr.com/ru/articles/849116/
    1. +2
      8 September 2025 12: 09
      These were, in essence, offices for budget development, sometimes in an extremely brazen form.

      This form of "development" is present in all budgetary offices...
      1. +4
        8 September 2025 12: 35
        The problem is that, for example, at the Research Institute of Physical Engineering, the long-serving director had only an evening higher education and his brains were only enough to clean out more talented and competent people at the top of the research institute as his potential competitors. The Chief Designer of the Fakel Design Bureau, Shalamov, is not a designer by profession, and the crowd around him was - "well, something somewhere, somehow", but definitely not cool specialists who could really solve cool problems. In fact, negative selection was in effect in the space industry for a long time.
  26. -1
    8 September 2025 10: 17
    All current events can be characterized as fragments of the struggle for world domination. The Russian bourgeoisie has also joined this struggle, but so far we have not seen any great success in this field. The most important thing is that there are no convincing technological and economic achievements that could reliably ensure these successes. And judging by the impending inevitable confrontation with NATO and the United States, a third world war in one form or another cannot be avoided. Most likely, it will begin in space and there will be a winner who will be able to deliver a preemptive disarming strike. Such a strike requires audacity and determination, which, unfortunately, we do not see in Russia.
    1. +1
      8 September 2025 10: 44
      Quote from usm5
      All current events can be characterized as fragments of the struggle for world domination. The Russian bourgeoisie has also joined this struggle, but so far we have not seen any great success in this field. The most important thing is that there are no convincing technological and economic achievements that could reliably ensure these successes. And judging by the impending inevitable confrontation with NATO and the United States, a third world war in one form or another cannot be avoided. Most likely, it will begin in space and there will be a winner who will be able to deliver a preemptive disarming strike. Such a strike requires audacity and determination, which, unfortunately, we do not see in Russia.

      We do not observe for many reasons, one of them being:

      - all documents that have recently been called plans are in fact "plan-like". A plan is a document where you can find answers to the question: who, what, when, where and how. But if it says something about some goals, allocation of money, and that's it, then it is far from a plan.

      Such a document does not have a mechanism for implementation and achieving results. Yes, national projects and state programs discipline different leaders, officials, and different industries a little. But they do not achieve the full effect.

      State Duma deputy, deputy chairman of the Duma Committee on Energy, former governor of the Irkutsk region Sergei Levchenko
    2. +2
      8 September 2025 12: 10
      The Russian bourgeoisie also joined this struggle, but so far we have not seen much success in this field.

      She joined in the development of the budget for these purposes...
      struggle? - why - the money is already flowing...
  27. +1
    8 September 2025 10: 36
    $200 per kilogram of cargo is of course a revolution, but compared to today’s costs it’s a pittance!
    1. -2
      8 September 2025 13: 53
      Only this will not happen. In the near future - 2 thousand dollars per 1 kg to low orbit. At present, the same Musk asks for more than 12 thousand dollars per 1 kg.

      33 engines for the RN (for Starship) is clearly too much. It is very difficult to ensure the proper reliability of such a complex system. And so far it simply does not exist.
      1. +2
        9 September 2025 00: 31
        Quote: Illanatol
        Ensuring proper reliability for such a complex system is very difficult. And it simply does not exist yet.

        It already simply exists. The first stage worked without problems, at least the takeoff stage, all launches except the first one.
        There are isolated cases of engine shutdowns, which do not affect the flight in any way, and even this will probably be fixed over time.
        1. 0
          9 September 2025 13: 39
          There are too few launches to draw such far-reaching conclusions. And with real reusability, "isolated cases" may not be so isolated.

          I wonder why the Yankees used to make do with only 5 engines on their Saturn 4, but here they have 33? Have they forgotten how to make powerful liquid-propellant rocket engines?
  28. +4
    8 September 2025 11: 13
    To confront this, we need a completely new general staff that can see beyond the triangle: Kalashnikovs, earflaps, and kirzachi.
  29. +3
    8 September 2025 11: 14
    Elon Musk will take them into orbit for a pittance
    Misunderstanding.
    Musk is not building a transportation company for everyone and everything; delivery to orbit is just a logistics chain in his satellite program.
    He doesn't need other people's satellites in orbit. Buy traffic and services, gentlemen.
    1. +1
      8 September 2025 12: 12
      He doesn't need other people's satellites in orbit. Buy traffic and services, gentlemen.

      that's right, we'll soon be standing in line at his cash register...
    2. +4
      8 September 2025 19: 30
      Quote: MrFox
      He doesn't need other people's satellites in orbit. Buy traffic and services, gentlemen.

      Not true. He launches Amazon satellites, although they are direct competitors (in words).
  30. +1
    8 September 2025 11: 14
    Russia now has only one chance to survive in the future - a qualitative leap in the development and exploration of space.

    We take out old folders and dust them off. As a counteraction to the enemy's space group, its insidious plans to destroy our military-technical potential, we launch an orbital bomber and an orbital carrier of spaceplanes-interceptors of satellites. A berth station for servicing....and you know that all this was already conceived as a further development of the Energia-Buran program....

    Now Russia needs to accomplish a feat - to create a reusable rocket of the same type of energy and to create a new generation of spacecraft like Buran
    1. +4
      8 September 2025 11: 41
      Quote: Zheka111
      Now Russia needs to accomplish a feat - to create a reusable rocket of the same type of energy and to create a new generation of spacecraft like Buran

      Unfortunately, this is almost impossible. Those who were even 1991 years old in 30 (and for a designer-engineer-technologist this is youth) are already pensioners today. That is, there are no people. The production was taken away as scrap metal back in the 90s.
    2. +3
      8 September 2025 11: 59
      I like your optimism. I so want it to happen. But alas, it will not. Design schools have been dispersed, industry cannot handle it, and there are no personnel to implement it. All of this was meticulously destroyed by the hands of those who were supposed to develop it.
    3. +5
      9 September 2025 00: 35
      Quote: Zheka111
      We launch an orbital bomber and an orbital carrier of spaceplanes-interceptors of satellites.

      And do you really believe that there are forty-year-old wonder-folders where all these bombers, orbital carriers of space planes and other Death Stars have long been developed, so much so that you can just go and do it?
  31. +1
    8 September 2025 11: 18
    Well done Americans, what they did and are doing, and not sawing off the money.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      8 September 2025 11: 56
      Yes, their "trampoline" turned out pretty good, at first glance. We don't have anything close to that and won't have it. Let's see how the Chinese respond. Our Roscosmos, in principle, is incapable of responding adequately. If it could, it would have done it long ago, instead of feeding us with promises for the third decade. Oh, sorry, it's already the fourth decade.
    3. +2
      8 September 2025 12: 04
      Well, they saw off more money than we do, they just have it like dirt.
      1. +3
        8 September 2025 12: 11
        Well, yes, the tax office can put you in jail if you don’t report your income.
        1. +2
          8 September 2025 12: 19
          Our tax authorities also have many rights.
    4. +5
      8 September 2025 12: 14
      Well done Americans, what they did and are doing, and not sawing off the money.

      and they have many people who are sawing...
      but in this case, they don't saw, but create something new...
  32. +3
    8 September 2025 11: 30
    In Russia, this event not only went unnoticed, but it didn’t attract much attention – just a routine piece of news. But in reality, history is being made before our eyes – the emergence of fully reusable super-heavy rockets like Starship-Super Heavy will change everything.

    It is necessary to clarify that for Russia this is very bad news. The fact is that military satellite constellations are capable of radically changing the balance of power in favor of the owner of these constellations. The Americans are making a qualitative leap in this area today. The Chinese are lagging behind, but are trying to catch up. Russia, unfortunately, is lagging behind catastrophically. And it seems that it does not realize the scale of this catastrophe and, even more so, is not trying to somehow improve the situation.
  33. +1
    8 September 2025 11: 31
    Soon Musk will be mass producing robots, and not only in the US. By the way, Russia has found breakthroughs in biology, where was the money poured into????
  34. +4
    8 September 2025 11: 53
    Russian officials who have been banning access to everything and everyone lately should remember this – soon they will be able to ban sunlight and precipitation with the same success.
    In my opinion, they forbid, first of all, us. So that they do not possess information. Because information garbage can be analyzed and conclusions can be made. After all, on TV, all you hear is "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise." If only they would not be suspected of wanting to hand over the Russian Federation for their wallets and children, which the West controls.
    1. 0
      8 September 2025 12: 28
      To draw conclusions you need to have something in your head, and this is exactly the problem right now.
      At one time, to stop believing the "voices", it was enough for me to hear just one piece of news: "an explosion occurred in a major university in the country, there are victims, dozens of wounded." At the same time, I knew for sure that it was a gas cylinder that exploded in the basement, and only the person who tried to cut it was hurt.
      1. 0
        9 September 2025 16: 15
        At the same time, I knew for sure that a gas cylinder exploded in the basement, and only the person who tried to cut it was hurt.
        Take it as an axiom: Now the media always lies and everything will fall into place. They are paid for this by capitalists.
  35. +6
    8 September 2025 12: 01
    The SVO showed what a developed space communications and reconnaissance system integrated with ground and air weapons means. And how bad it is for those who do not have it. I hope that at least this experience will make us look more seriously at the development of space systems and, most importantly, the trends in their development. Since our own are completely absent.
    However, even if everything changes radically right now (for the better), we will see the results, at best, in about twenty years. Too much was destroyed that they did not even try to restore it in the "fat" 2010s. There are no qualified personnel, both engineers and workers. Or rather, there are, but in vanishingly small quantities. There is almost no domestic electronics industry. (For example: it was necessary to replace with other capacity values ​​- the deadline is 1 (one) year). And how the "reliance" on imports ends was shown by the example of the Superjet.
  36. 0
    8 September 2025 12: 25
    Quote: Puncher
    Quote: Civil
    And how much they laughed and mocked Musk here on VO 10 years ago.

    There are those who do this even now. If it is an ordinary citizen, it does not matter, but unfortunately there were such people and most likely there still are among those in power.

    Dimon the humorist?
  37. +3
    8 September 2025 12: 59
    It's very simple: when the production of satellites and their delivery into orbit become available at a relatively low cost, then the same Saudi Arabia or the UAE will order satellites somewhere in China, France or Russia (yes, we can make them too)

    laughing What can we do there too? Something close to Starlink is only in our distant plans, and not on our own ECB. Remind me, have we at least mastered the 90 nm process technology? And for silos, in reasonable sizes and weights, we already need 8-16 nm. at least. Although I think that Musk has all 4 nm chips on Starlinks.
    After all, the stakes may now be even higher than during the Cold War – perhaps the country that controls space will not control the world, but it may well become “first among equals” and in many ways stop taking into account the opinions of other countries, becoming the leading geopolitical force on planet Earth for a long time.

    Wake up, we've been robbed! (c) It already happened, 34 years ago. And without any space.
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 20: 24
      [/quote] Musk has all 4 nm chips on Starlinks [quote]

      There are none. The components must be radiation-resistant, and the finer the process technology, the more difficult it is to implement - physics, however.
      1. 0
        9 September 2025 20: 47
        Quote: U. Cheny
        There are none. The components must be radiation-resistant, and the finer the process technology, the more difficult it is to implement - physics, however.

        The stupidest nonsense! Radiation resistance at orbital altitudes of 500 km is practically not required, because there is no increased radiation there. And no technical process will help with TZCH. This is solved by circuit design and redundancy.
        1. 0
          11 September 2025 08: 36
          There is already increased radiation at the altitudes of civil airliners. At an altitude of 500 km - even more so.
          1. 0
            11 September 2025 09: 08
            Quote: Illanatol
            There is already increased radiation at the altitudes of civil airliners. At an altitude of 500 km - even more so.

            laughing So, everyone flies in lead panties? And pilots with double the thickness of lead "fabric"?
            I'll tell you more, even on the granite embankments of St. Petersburg the radiation background is somewhat elevated. But this does not mean that any protective measures need to be taken. Also, at altitudes of 500 km, the increase in the radiation background is not significant, and does not require special protective measures, especially for the equipment inside the spacecraft body.
            By the way, the same smartphones with 4 nm processors on the ISS live and thrive for years.
            Well, on the other hand, even with 40 nm technology, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to implement such a data transfer rate in those dimensions of the Starlink satellite. Neither in terms of energy consumption, nor in terms of the thermal management system. The satellite is a cube with a 300 mm edge size + a solar battery.
            And by the way, the reduction of the chip process technology and the reduction of rad resistance is a MYTH.
            Read carefully:
            https://habr.com/ru/articles/452128/?ysclid=mfezw178xt770079795
            Starlink generally flies on commercial chips, which have no rad.stability at all.
            Well, here it is:
            Reducing design standards certainly affects the radiation resistance of the microcircuits manufactured on them, but not necessarily for the worse. The general trend is that with a reduction in design standards, the effect of the total dose decreases, and the effect of single effects increases.

            Single effects are the HCPs (heavy charged particles) and they can kill any chip. These are random things, and there is no protection against HCPs (physical). Only logical and duplication.
            1. 0
              11 September 2025 09: 18
              Increased does not mean critically dangerous.
              Well, yes, inside the ISS hull - quite. By the way, the ISS has its own anti-radiation protection system.
              However, it is no coincidence that all manned flights are carried out at relatively low altitudes. Being protected by the Van Allen anti-radiation belts is still preferable. But long-term (definitely not less than a year) flights to Mars, which Musk either promises us, or plans, or simply dreams about out loud, will still require special protective measures. Otherwise, not only semi-invalids will get to Mars, for whom it will be difficult to move even in low gravity after weightlessness, but also seriously irradiated Katzmanauts with a very real chance of developing cancer.

              Well, if we take into account the activity of our sun, then “single effects” may not be so isolated during a long stay in orbit or long flights.
              I hope I don't have to go back to analog electronics. lol
              1. 0
                11 September 2025 10: 11
                Quote: Illanatol
                But long-term (definitely no less than a year) flights to Mars, which Musk either promises us, or plans, or simply dreams about out loud, will still require special protective measures.

                What does this have to do with flights to Mars? We are talking about the Starlink HO satellites and TP chips for them.
                Quote: Illanatol
                Well, yes, inside the ISS body - quite possible.

                The inside of the Starlink case is the same.
                Quote: Illanatol
                Well, if we take into account the activity of our sun, then “single effects” may not be so isolated during a long stay in orbit or long flights.

                Again, no need to make things up. It is impossible to take into account the effect of the TZCh. Because these are RANDOM things. A spacecraft can fly for years and not get a single critical damage from the TZCh. And sometimes exactly the same device dies in a week from the same TZCh. Considering that the TZCh is produced not only by the Sun, but also by all the stars in the galaxy, it is impossible to predict this at all. Only the leveling of the thyristor effect by circuit design.
                1. 0
                  11 September 2025 13: 38
                  And I thought about the "senior ships" who would change everything and create some kind of new reality.
                  Satellites and "falcons" are quite capable of launching. "Starships" were initially positioned as launch vehicles for manned flights.

                  It is an elementary truth that the probability of a random event is higher the longer the time interval for a large sample.
                  1. 0
                    11 September 2025 14: 52
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    Satellites and "falcons" are quite capable of launching. "Starships" were initially positioned as launch vehicles for manned flights.

                    Or maybe these are fairy tales for suckers? And in reality this is for the militarization of space?
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    It is an elementary truth that the probability of a random event is higher the longer the time interval for a large sample.

                    I like the joke better:
                    "Probability Theory Exam.
                    Teacher: What is the probability of 0,9?
                    Student - this means that if you open a window to the street and count 10 people passing by, then with a 90% probability at least one of them will be a woman.
                    - Sure?
                    - Yes!
                    - Okay, if so, then 5. No, then fail.
                    They open the window, and there comes a company of soldiers."
                    laughing
                    1. 0
                      12 September 2025 08: 32
                      Quote: Zoer
                      Or maybe these are fairy tales for suckers? And in reality this is for the militarization of space?


                      Space is already quite militarized. If we are talking about the deployment of strike weapons, then new generation shuttles (maneuvers in orbit) or orbital stations for the permanent deployment of strike weapons (including nuclear weapons) are more in demand.
                      What prevents us from using the "falcons" for militarization right now, instead of wasting time and resources on developing the frankly still raw "starships"? What, the "falcons" do not have enough lifting capacity to lift the same nuclear weapons into orbit?
                      1. 0
                        14 September 2025 10: 19
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        What prevents us from using the "falcons" for militarization right now, instead of wasting time and resources on developing the frankly still raw "starships"? What, the "falcons" do not have enough lifting capacity to lift the same nuclear weapons into orbit?

                        Well, of course it won't be enough to launch the Shuttle.
                      2. 0
                        14 September 2025 13: 44
                        It is possible to launch an unmanned shuttle of much smaller dimensions. The US already has one.
                      3. 0
                        14 September 2025 17: 44
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        It is possible to launch an unmanned shuttle of much smaller dimensions. The US already has one.

                        In unmanned mode it is possible, of course, but it is dangerous to scatter nuclear weapons like that.
                        Well, one heavy RN can launch a group of spacecraft. It's much cheaper.
                      4. 0
                        15 September 2025 13: 42
                        Quote: Zoer
                        In unmanned mode it is possible, of course, but it is dangerous to scatter nuclear weapons like that.
                        Well, one heavy RN can launch a group of spacecraft. It's much cheaper.


                        The emergence of heavy UAVs with nuclear weapons (including in space) is only a matter of time.
                        Will these spacecraft be able to perform orbital maneuvers, which increases the combat value of such systems? Will they be capable of "diving from orbit"? If so, then such spacecraft are quite an analogue of the shuttle, even if it is disposable.
  38. +7
    8 September 2025 14: 04
    You can have different attitudes towards Musk, but at least thanks to him, my boy has finally come to his senses. Now he has a goal - to be like Musk in the future. He wants to study astrophysics and business at university. We are already going to tutors, investing a lot of money, preparing for admission: English, mathematics. He is 15 years old, there are still three years ahead, we will see - maybe he will be able to get in. He is already sitting, googling university websites, looking at grants, where what programs are. The boy has become motivated, and for me this is the most important thing - to see that he has a real interest and goal.
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 13: 31
      In order for your kid to become like Musk, you need to urgently start developing a sapphire deposit in Africa. Without this, it will not work out.
  39. -2
    8 September 2025 14: 16
    Musk's task is not to create a breakthrough technology for an effective rocket, but to be in a state of advanced development. Therefore, Competent scientists understand that the path of an engineering solution to increase a simple quantity is a dead end. Nothing has been done to achieve high levels of energy density to avoid banal parasitic processes of increasing those parametric components that are associated with an increase in the mass and volume of fuel and complication of control.
  40. +6
    8 September 2025 16: 11
    I don't even know what's the saddest thing here...

    The fact is that the leadership of our Russian Federation has never been seriously involved in space, but has only been engaged in custom transportation and selling off for scrap metal what cannot be used for transportation.

    Or that even if the new leadership takes up space, it will do so in a world where the space delivery market will most likely already be divided entirely between the reusable rockets of the US and China, and they will do everything to ensure that a third competitor does not appear.

    The same China, seeing that we, a country that once became a pioneer in cosmonautics, that set records and that sent a huge number of representatives of different countries into space, now cannot establish production of launch vehicles to replace the old ones, will simply buy our successful ideas and get us hooked on their rockets. And in our news they will proudly declare that Russian flights into space on Chinese rockets, as part of Chinese missions, are our achievement.
    1. -1
      8 September 2025 19: 25
      Quote: Mustachioed Kok
      The same China, seeing that we, a country that once became a pioneer in cosmonautics, that set records and that sent a huge number of representatives from different countries into orbit, now cannot establish production of launch vehicles to replace the old ones, will simply buy our successful ideas and get us hooked on their rockets.

      You exaggerate China's successes too much. They certainly have some success in spacecraft, possibly satellites, but their RN is complete nonsense. A wide range of light and medium RNs, often duplicating each other. There is only one heavy one, Changzheng-5, a photocopy of Ariane 5. Despite the fact that they created a new line of Changzheng-5,6,7 rockets, moving away from "heptyl", they still continue to use old rockets on "heptyl", which indicates their inability to deploy mass production of new rockets and kerosene-oxygen and hydrogen-oxygen engines.
      We could take advantage of China's difficulties in expanding their satellite constellation, but so far there has been no progress. We have the capacity to produce missiles, they have the payload for them. But...
      1. 0
        9 September 2025 13: 31
        Quote: Puncher
        the inability to launch mass production of new kerosene-oxygen and hydrogen-oxygen rockets and engines.


        Apparently they don't really care. Hydrogen is not that great, except that it's environmentally friendly. Methane is better, less hassle.
        And in general it doesn't really matter. The speeds are the same.
        Problems with rockets did not prevent China from launching its orbital station. Incidentally, no one else has national orbital stations at present, the rest use orbital "common rooms".
        1. 0
          10 September 2025 08: 48
          Quote: Illanatol
          Apparently they don't really care about it.

          It does concern them. They are simply used to following the beaten path, looking at the Russian Federation, Europe and the USA, where rocket development was in a state of stagnation (before Musk). What new could they see there? Nothing.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Hydrogen is not so great, except that it is environmentally friendly.

          China simply saw that the US and Europe were focusing on hydrogen, and in general the CZ-5 is a copy of the hydrogen Ariane 5.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Methane is better, less hassle.

          Musk made methane mainstream, so the Chinese didn’t focus on it, because no one in the world used it.
          Quote: Illanatol
          And in general it doesn't really matter. The speeds are the same.

          No. Disposable rockets do not fit into the concept of many and cheap.
          Quote: Illanatol
          Problems with the rockets did not prevent China from launching its orbital station.

          Stupidity and insanity. Spending energy and resources on yesterday is the height of frivolity.
          1. 0
            11 September 2025 08: 34
            What fundamentally new thing does Musk have that would significantly expand the possibilities for space exploration? Nothing.

            Hydrogen does nothing but produce less pollution. There are no particular advantages.

            A lot and cheap is not enough. Especially since the Falcons are not that cheap.
            For a real breakthrough we need "faster and further". But neither disposable nor reusable chemical rockets will provide this.

            Orbital stations are not yesterday. But "tomorrow and the day after tomorrow". Starting from mass production of ultra-pure materials (like gallium arsenide or pharmaceuticals) to the implementation of interplanetary manned flights, for which the OS will be the starting point.
  41. +3
    8 September 2025 19: 01
    As Musk said, if the rocket does not explode on the launch pad, the launch is considered successful.
    Our Roscosmos is keen on internal experiments, technology developments and so on. But where is the end result? One launch of an interplanetary station every 10 years?
    Musk produces satellites on a conveyor belt? Well, yes. He has the components for this in sufficient quantity and with the necessary characteristics.
    The design of our satellites has not changed fundamentally since the time of PS-1. Our satellite is a sealed container with equipment on which antennas, sensors, engines, etc. are hung. Their satellite is a frame that provides thermal conditions for the electronics and that's it!!! Their microcircuits work in outer space, but ours can't. I hope so for now. And now we launch 2-3 satellites, demonstrate the functionality of the technology... and that's it :( Well, okay, GLONASS has been deployed in full, but to repeat Starlink, thousands of satellites are needed.
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 13: 34
      Quote: Not the fighter
      The design of our satellites has not changed fundamentally since the time of PS-1. Our satellite is a sealed container with equipment on which antennas, sensors, engines, etc. are hung. Their satellite is a frame that provides thermal conditions for the electronics and that's it!!! Their microcircuits work in outer space, but ours cannot.


      Only they "can" until the first solar flare. And then - a spectacular fireworks display in the night sky.
      The case, or shielding, is still necessary. Maybe that's why the new Starlinks (satellites) have gained a lot of mass/weight, because Musk realized that microelectronics in orbit still need protection?
  42. -1
    8 September 2025 21: 30
    Did they give out bonuses for such articles?
  43. -1
    8 September 2025 21: 49
    Quote: Anglorussian
    What to shoot down? The article says that there will be thousands of satellites.

    Clouds of balls for bearings - in the same orbit but in the opposite direction.
  44. 0
    8 September 2025 22: 21
    Quote: opuonmed
    Well done Americans, what they did and are doing, and not sawing off the money.

    Is this about the Americans??? What about Saturn-5, SDI, Shuttle? How much of this exists today and how much money was spent on them? Or Musk's Falcon. What was the advertising cost per kilogram into orbit and what is the real cost?
    He will remember the tales of Starship Musk well in a few years. If they bring it to mind and there will not be the biggest catastrophe in the history of space flights - let's compare 100 dollars per kilogram or 15 million dollars per flight, and the real cost taking into account inflation.
    I just remind you that today the advertising price of one flight of Falcon 9 is 70 million dollars for 17,5 tons in low orbit, in reality much more. And the flight of Starship according to you will be 15 million!
  45. 0
    8 September 2025 22: 24
    Katz offers to surrender!
  46. 0
    9 September 2025 04: 29
    Intercepting 99,9% of ICBMs near your territory is of course super. I am not an expert in space wars, but what if before such a strike several powerful nuclear warheads are deployed in space near these satellites? Will this somehow affect their further ability to intercept a subsequent massive strike on the ground?
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 20: 07
      Unfortunately, it won't work. Firstly, to use them effectively, there must be a lot of them and they must be distributed fairly evenly across the orbits. Secondly, all combat electronics are designed to recover within a fraction of a second after exposure to an EM pulse, provided that this pulse did not physically burn it out. And for this, the charge must be detonated close enough. And if the satellites are dispersed, then how many charges are needed to suppress this system?
  47. +1
    9 September 2025 07: 47
    During Putin's democracy and "rising from our knees" we have already irretrievably lost 25 years. Simply nothing was done, not even our own normal passenger car. Not to mention space, it is destroyed. In two more terms of the "greatest geostrategist" we will be left behind forever and Russia will be destroyed. There is practically no chance.
  48. +1
    9 September 2025 08: 57
    The author has diverged too much from his conclusions based on one not entirely successful launch.
    Also, it's very strange to see the price of a kilogram launched into orbit. Well, it's definitely not $100.
    1. +1
      10 September 2025 02: 39
      Well, gradually there will be results... Moscow was built more than once.
      1. 0
        10 September 2025 08: 21
        Quote: OXOTHuK_RUSSIA
        Well, gradually there will be results...

        maybe it will be, maybe it won't be, but it definitely won't be that cheap.
        1. 0
          11 September 2025 01: 20
          They will draw dollars and give them to Russians - and we will buy dollars with wild joy as always...
  49. -1
    9 September 2025 09: 36
    Budget Slicing American Style! Bravura Speeches and Firecrackers laughing
  50. 0
    9 September 2025 11: 24
    Quote: multicaat
    The author has diverged too much from his conclusions based on one not entirely successful launch.
    Also, it's very strange to see the price of a kilogram launched into orbit. Well, it's definitely not $100.

    In this historic flight that carried out the "new reality" Starship launched into orbit 8 Starlink satellite simulators or approximately 2 tons of payload at an advertised flight price of 96 million dollars.
    As far as I know, the payload in low orbit has already been reduced to 50 tons with full use of all stages. It is reduced with each new version of the ship. With a payload close to zero, it is now possible to make a completely reusable ship. Nobody knows what the real price of reusing all stages will be - either 2 million, or 10 million, or much more. What will be the price if they lose one or more Starships in disasters (hopefully without people on board).
    Finally and most importantly. If Starship is truly a revolutionary technology (very simple, reliable and cheap) and this is proven, then the Chinese will copy it very quickly and will overtake the Americans in both the number of ships and in cheapness. There is no doubt about it. So Musk is working for the Chinese today, spending American money.
    1. +3
      9 September 2025 13: 43
      There are technologies that are quite difficult to copy. For example, the Chinese still cannot make turbofan engines last long. I don't think it will be easy for China to copy the American solution, but knowing what this path can lead to also costs a lot of money. So the USSR saved a lot on creating an atomic bomb.
  51. kig
    0
    9 September 2025 15: 10
    We don't need your internets, just like we don't need your mask. And in general, sanctions are only good for us!
    1. +1
      10 September 2025 02: 38
      turn off your internet and go dig the garden beds :)))
  52. +1
    9 September 2025 16: 14
    The space arms race is in full swing.
    5G in a smartphone and we already get high-speed Internet? The mobile operators will immediately go bankrupt. Now everyone installs MAX so that there are audio and video calls. That is, 2G voice calls, SMS, MMS are already the last century and no one needs them.
    And the Star Shield is a complete tracking not only of air or sea targets, but also of small ones, right down to an ATV and a motorcycle.
    He who owns operational information owns the world.
  53. -3
    9 September 2025 23: 31
    One high-altitude nuclear explosion and all of Musk's work will end up in the trash. Along with Starlinks and spy satellites.
    1. +1
      10 September 2025 02: 37
      not all of course, but somewhere there will be hundreds, but they will bring out another couple of thousand in one launch...
    2. +2
      10 September 2025 12: 52
      You don't understand nuclear explosions in space. And you don't understand how big three-dimensional space is. Good luck to you.
  54. +1
    10 September 2025 12: 47
    I remember people here laughing at Musk. We're so smart. And he... So what?
  55. 0
    10 September 2025 13: 24
    Where is the signature on the rights of advertising? Of course, I understand that many of us do not know that Musk's research is quite legally subsidized by the capitalist state, unlike our under-capitalist one, and instead of money for space, we are fed jokes about spitting either on the floor or the ceiling, and about a soft landing on water, instead of a landing pad.
  56. 0
    10 September 2025 14: 33
    Quote: Vladimir_Borisovich
    I remember people here laughing at Musk. We're so smart. And he... So what?

    No need to laugh, but respect him. Let him work to the detriment of the USA and embezzle state money. By the way, his friend Trump also noticed this.
  57. 0
    10 September 2025 20: 22
    There is no point even in reading this article by Mirofanov after such a title.

    This thing is a heavy steel rocket. Like in the USSR: bigger, more powerful, further

    There is no special breakthrough or meaning here.
  58. +1
    16 September 2025 07: 20
    Here is our answer to the South African sul..., sorry to the American Musk. A peremptory and very cheap answer!
  59. 0
    23 November 2025 09: 20
    Such launches are only possible in ideal weather, and who calculated the damage checks on the landing stage afterwards? We've already rushed to catch up with reusable spacecraft. It's all just talk, it's all just nice and cheap.