"Under current conditions, it is impossible to end the war. It is a disgrace."

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"Under current conditions, it is impossible to end the war. It is a disgrace."
British satirical magazine Punch, 1905. Drawing illustrating the loss of prestige of the Russian Empire after the country's defeat. The hourglass represents the decline of Russia's prestige


Oh, Rus! Forget former glory -
The double-headed eagle is defeated,
And yellow children for fun
Given the shreds of your banners.



Resigned to awe and fear
Who could forget the covenant of love ...
And the Third Rome lies in dust
And there shouldn’t be a fourth.


Poet S. M. Solovyov.


prehistory


Despite the loss of Port Arthur, the destruction of the Pacific fleet and failures in the Manchurian theater, Russia did not lose the war (Mukden; Tsushima tragedy). The land army only became stronger and could go on the counteroffensive to throw the enemy into the sea and recapture positions in Manchuria and Korea.

The Japanese Empire was completely exhausted and could not fight any more. There was no money, no people. Its army was bled dry, communications were stretched. More than half of the budget was spent on the war, the empire could not fight any more. The Japanese authorities were feeling out the possibility of a peace agreement through Europeans and Americans.

Russia was much stronger than Japan in military and economic terms and could continue the war further. However, resounding defeats at the front, the tragic loss of the fleet and unrest in the country, and the pressure of the world community of that time forced St. Petersburg to agree to a peace that was disadvantageous to Russia.

Thus, if we compare the military and financial capabilities of Russia and Japan, it is obvious that if the war continued, the Japanese would suffer defeat. The Japanese command realized that the army was on the brink of danger, and a new clash could lead to a decisive defeat. Therefore, the Japanese generals pressured the government, demanding that peace be concluded while the situation at the front was still favorable for Japan.

It is not surprising that just three days after the victory in the Tsushima Strait, Japanese Foreign Minister Yutaro Komura instructed the Japanese ambassador in Washington to find out whether American President Roosevelt would undertake a mediation mission. On May 23 (June 5), Roosevelt instructed the US ambassador to Russia, George Meyer, to obtain an audience with Emperor Nicholas II and “try to convince him that further continuation of the war is absolutely hopeless and could lead to the loss of all of Russia’s Far Eastern possessions.”

The Big Game


England and the United States initially stood behind Japan, setting it first against China and then against Russia. The masters of the Anglo-Saxon world considered Russian civilization to be the main opponent in the Great Game, the goal of which was control over humanity (the planet). The Anglo-Saxons did not like direct fights with a strong opponent, preferring to rake in the heat with someone else's hands. Thus, England used to pit Russia against Sweden, Turkey and France. In 1904, they set Japan against Russia, and then managed to pit Germany and Russia, the two strongest opponents of the Anglo-Saxons in Europe, against each other.

The Japanese Empire would not have been able to wage war without relying on military-material and financial support from English and American capital. Even before the war, the English financed Japan and its military training, and actually created a first-class navy for it.

After the war began, in order to support Japan, in April 1904, the banker Schiff and the large banking house of Kuhn, Loeb and Company, together with a syndicate of English banks, including Hong Kong and Shanghai, provided Tokyo with a loan in the amount of 50 million dollars at a high interest rate (6% per annum); half of the loan was placed in England, half in the USA.

In November 1904, a new Japanese loan was placed in England and the USA for 60 million dollars (also 6% per annum). In March 1905, a third Anglo-American loan followed, this time for 150 million dollars (4,5%). In July 1905, Japan received a fourth loan for 150 million dollars (4,5%). This allowed Japan to cover more than 40% of all military expenses of the country, which reached 1730 million yen and continued to grow.

England and the USA actually stood behind Japan and poured their money into it so that the Japanese would fight the Russians. The Japanese acted as "cannon fodder" for the Anglo-Saxons in this war. Without English and American money, Japan would not have been able to fight for a long time.

Japan was exhausted by the war and could no longer fight. Japan spent about 2 billion yen on the war and increased its national debt from 600 million yen to 2400 million, and the interest paid annually on loans was 110 million yen.

The Russian Empire hardly felt any economic or financial difficulties due to the war. The harvest of 1904 was good. Industrial growth continued in 1904. Taxes were collected as in peacetime, and the gold reserves of the State Bank continued to grow and increased by 1904 million rubles in 150.

Russia's military expenditures, which amounted to about 600 million rubles in the first year of the war, were covered partly by the free cash of the treasury (budget balances from previous years), partly by foreign loans. The subscription to two loans exceeded the issue amount several times. In May 1904, a loan followed in France for 300 million rubles, and at the very end of 1904, in Germany for 232 million rubles. That is, in continental Europe, Russia had a solid rear - France and Germany were friendly towards Russia, and it could calmly continue the struggle in the Far East.

The French were official allies of Russia, and the Germans wanted the Russians to get stuck in the Far East and interfere less in European affairs. The German Kaiser Wilhelm II even began to call Nicholas II "Admiral of the Pacific Ocean" and de facto offered Russia an alliance. Unfortunately, the supporters of the Entente and Westerners thwarted the possibility of such an alliance and ultimately pitted the Russians and Germans, who had no fundamental differences at the time, against each other. And Britain and the United States received all the benefits.

After the Hull incident (October 1904), the British government issued threats against Russia. Berlin immediately supported St. Petersburg. On October 27, German Kaiser Wilhelm II personally telegraphed Russian Emperor Nicholas II, reporting that Britain intended to prevent Germany from supplying coal to the Russian navy. Wilhelm proposed to jointly put an end to this insolence. To create a "powerful combination" against England and jointly force France to join Russia and Germany in a joint rebuff to the British.

The Russian Foreign Minister Lamsdorf, who was a Francophile, opposed this step. Tsar Nicholas II replied: “I am now in favor of an agreement with Germany and France. We must rid Europe of England’s insolence,” and on October 16 he telegraphed Kaiser Wilhelm: “Germany, Russia, and France must unite. Will you please draft such a treaty? As soon as we accept it, France must join her ally. This combination has often occurred to me.” This alliance could save Europe from the great war that the Anglo-Saxons were preparing.

In Berlin, a draft of an alliance treaty was immediately drawn up. It stated: “In the event that one of the two empires is attacked by one of the European powers,” the draft stated, “its ally will come to its aid with all its land and sea forces. If necessary, both allies will also act together to remind France of the obligations it has assumed under the terms of the Franco-Russian alliance treaty.”

The implementation of this idea would have led to the emergence in Europe of an anti-English continental bloc under the leadership of Germany and Russia, with the participation of France, or to the rupture of the Franco-Russian alliance, which was already harmful to Russia, since it made the Russians “cannon fodder” in the hands of England and France.

Unfortunately, Petersburg was never able to escape from this trap. The agents of influence of England and France in Russia managed to persuade Nicholas II to abandon the alliance with Germany. As a result, the Russians and Germans were turned into "cannon fodder", their empires were destroyed and plundered.

Then came the Moroccan Crisis (March 1905 to May 1906), which arose from a dispute between France and Germany over control of Morocco. It almost led to war between Germany and France.

It is clear that in such a situation Russia had a quiet rear in Europe, since both France and Germany were interested in its location. Russia could calmly continue the struggle in the Far East.


Many people already understood the provocative role of England and the USA at that time. In particular, the press regularly published corresponding cartoons. A. A. Radakov's cartoon in the magazine "Shut" "Inflate, inflate... I can't do it myself anymore!" The author's irony is obvious: the word "naduvat" has several meanings in Russian. In addition to the main one - "to fill with air", it is used in the sense of "to deceive".

Talks


Seeing that Japan could no longer continue and would be further defeated, the masters of England and the USA decided to fix the result. The English, having spoiled relations with Russia, could not claim the role of mediator in peace negotiations. Then the Americans got busy.

The first successes of the Japanese in the war were welcomed by the American government and press. However, subsequent events did not suit Washington. The Americans did not want either the complete defeat of Russia, which would lead to an excessive strengthening of Japan's position in the Pacific Ocean and in China, where Washington had its own interests, or the possible defeat of Japan.

Thus, in March 1904, when the war was just beginning, in a conversation with the German ambassador, American President Theodore Roosevelt frankly said that the United States was interested in Russia and Japan "troubling each other as much as possible and so that after the conclusion of peace, such geographical areas in which there is friction between them do not disappear, so that in terms of the boundaries of their spheres of interest they would confront each other approximately as before the war. This would keep them in a state of military readiness and moderate their appetites in other areas. Japan would then not threaten Germany in Jiaozhou, and America in the Philippines."

The Russian leadership lacked the will to continue the war. In connection with the defeat at Tsushima and the development of revolutionary events in Russia, many believed that peace was necessary.

On May 24 (June 6), 1905, a military conference chaired by Nicholas II was held in Tsarskoye Selo on the need for peace. Opinions were divided. Minister of War General Sakharov declared: “Under current conditions, it is impossible to end the war. Given our complete defeat, without a single victory or even a successful undertaking, this is a disgrace. This will lower Russia’s prestige and remove it from the ranks of the great powers for a long time. We must continue the war not for material gains, but to wash away this stain that will remain if we do not have the slightest success, as has been the case until now.”

The Minister of War was supported by the State Controller Pavel Lobko, who noted that in the event of peace, “the return to Russia of an army oppressed and not having won a single victory will worsen, rather than improve, the internal situation of the country.” Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich spoke out in favor of negotiations.

On May 25, 1905, the American ambassador Meyer arrived at the Grand Tsarskoye Selo Palace and urgently requested an audience with the Tsar. Meyer gave a whole speech about the need to conclude peace as soon as possible. The Tsar, as usual, remained silent.

In the end, Nikolai agreed to negotiate. On June 29, the Chairman of the Committee of Ministers, Sergei Witte, was appointed the chief commissioner for conducting peace negotiations with Japan. Nikolai, instructing Witte, emphasized that he wanted peace, but not at any price, without territorial concessions and payment of indemnities to Japan.

On July 29 (August 9), a peace conference opened in the resort town of Portsmouth on the Atlantic coast of the United States. The Japanese delegation was headed by Baron Yutaro Komura. His right hand at the negotiations was the Japanese envoy to the United States, Kogoro Takahira.

On July 30 (August 10), after an exchange of powers and brief introductory statements, the head of the Japanese delegation, Komura, handed Witte a note with 12 points of demands. The Japanese insisted on the annexation of Sakhalin with the adjacent islands, compensation for military expenses (indemnity), limitation of Russian naval forces in the Far East, and the surrender to Japan as a prize of all Russian ships interned in neutral ports. Japan demanded a free hand in Korea, the complete evacuation of Russian troops from Manchuria, the transfer of lease rights on the Liaodong Peninsula with Port Arthur and Dalny, and the cession of the entire railroad between Port Arthur and Harbin with coal mines.

Tokyo agreed to Russia retaining the CER, but with a limited right to use the road for economic purposes only. The Japanese demanded unlimited fishing rights along the Russian coast of the Sea of ​​Japan, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and the Bering Sea, including rivers, bays, and gulfs.

The most difficult questions were about contributions and ownership of Sakhalin. If Tsar Nicholas II was not ready for territorial concessions and did not want to pay, then Witte was a more flexible politician and clarified the options - only money or only territory. The Japanese wanted to get everything and demanded a huge sum of 1,2 billion yen.

The negotiations dragged on, which was perceived nervously by the Japanese military leadership. The Japanese military was simply afraid of the resumption of hostilities. The Japanese army could suffer a crushing defeat. Japanese researcher Shumpei Okamoto noted that "Commander-in-Chief of the Manchurian Army Komada, irritated by the slow pace of negotiations, urgently telegraphed his government to conclude peace as soon as possible. Naval Minister Yamato desperately pushed for concessions in the name of concluding peace...". The military understood that the Japanese armed forces could no longer resist Russia.

On August 28 (new style), a joint meeting of the genro (informal council under the emperor), the government, and the highest military officials was held in the presence of Emperor Mutsuhito. Finance Minister Sone reported that it was impossible to continue the war, since the Japanese Empire could not find additional sources for its financing. The outcome of the meeting was an instruction to Komura "to reach an agreement in the negotiations as soon as possible, even if it were necessary to abandon the demands for monetary compensation and territories."

At the moment when the Japanese leadership was ready to abandon its main demands for territorial concessions, the Americans intervened again. Roosevelt sent a telegram to the Russian Tsar, putting pressure on him. The American president expressed confidence in the insurmountability of the Japanese Empire's claims and threatened that continuing the war could lead to the loss of all Russian territory east of Lake Baikal, that is, to the end of Russia's existence as a Pacific power.

At the same time, the American ambassador to Russia, Meyer, began to persuade Nicholas II to make concessions, promising the US mediation in the matter of "persuading" Japan to refuse the contribution. Inexperienced in the art of diplomacy, Nicholas II generally remained silent, but then "in passing" noted that Russia might consider the possibility of ceding South Sakhalin. This information was immediately passed on to Washington, and from there to Tokyo. As a result, the Japanese continued to demand territorial concessions.

Russia ceded the southern part of Sakhalin to Japan along the 50th parallel. Witte could only reject the demand to hand over all Russian ships interned in the ports of China, Indonesia and the Philippines. And the question of indemnity was not completely closed. The Russian government paid 46 million rubles in gold for the maintenance of Russian prisoners in Japan.

On August 23 (September 5), 1905, the Portsmouth Peace Treaty was signed. The peace treaty proclaimed peace and friendship between the emperors of Russia and Japan, between the states and their subjects.

According to the treaty, Russia recognized Korea as a sphere of Japanese influence, ceded to Japan the lease rights to the Liaodong Peninsula with Port Arthur and Dalny, part of the South Manchurian Railway from Port Arthur to Kuanchengzi, and agreed in Article 12 to conclude a convention on fishing along the Russian shores of the Sea of ​​Japan, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, and the Bering Sea. The treaty secured only the commercial use of Manchurian roads by both parties.

Russia ceded to Japan the south of Sakhalin (from the 50th parallel) and “all islands adjacent to the latter.” The parties agreed to exchange prisoners of war.

China also had to pay for Russia's defeat in the war. The Qing government was forced to recognize all the provisions of the Treaty of Portsmouth, including the transfer of the lease of the Liaodong Peninsula with Port Arthur and the South Manchurian Railway to Japan. The Chinese agreed to Japan's construction of a railway from the mouth of the Yalu River to Mukden. They pledged to open 16 cities in Manchuria for international (i.e. Japanese) trade, including Jilin, Harbin, Hailar, and Ainun.


Portsmouth negotiations. Russian delegation (far side of the table) - Korostovets, Nabokov, Witte, Rosen and Planson; and Japanese (near side of the table) - Adachi, Ochiai, Komura, Takahira and Sato

Value


Russia suffered a major strategic defeat, losing a significant part of its positions in the Far East. Moreover, Russia's weakness in the Far East allowed Japan to develop its success, which predetermined Japanese expansion in the following decades, until Russia took over in August 1945. historical revenge (Manchurian Blitzkrieg of the Soviet Army).

The plans of the masters of Britain and the USA to pit Russia and Japan against each other and weaken Russia were realized. At the same time, both Russia and Japan were dissatisfied with the results of the war and maintained hostility, to the delight of England and the USA.

The "rehearsal" for the First World War was successful, revealing Russia's weaknesses.

Most Russians perceived the outcome of the war and the Treaty of Portsmouth as an insult to Russia. It was not for nothing that the leader of the Russian civilization and the Russian superethnos, Joseph Stalin, remembered this. He understood perfectly well the need to restore positions in the Far East (Southern Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands and Port Arthur)Why Stalin Started the War Against Japan).

The Japanese Empire lost about 135 people killed or died of wounds and diseases in this war. About 554 wounded and sick people passed through medical institutions.

Russia's total losses in people amounted to about 400 people, including those killed, wounded, missing, and evacuated due to illness. Russia spent 2347 million rubles on the war and about 500 million rubles, which is the cost of the railroads, ports, and sunken navy, both military and merchant, that went to Japan.

Among the main prerequisites that led Russia to defeat are: 1) Petersburg’s indifference to the cause of military and economic development of the Far East; 2) the lack of iron will of the military-political leadership of Russia in the conduct of war; 3) the degradation of the military elite of the Russian Empire, the supreme posts were occupied by mediocre careerists, people with connections, outspoken marauders (in plundering the country), generals and peacetime admirals unable to lead troops and fleets into battle; 4) financial, military-technical and political support for England and the United States, which were behind Japan; 5) the remoteness of the Manchurian theater from the European part of Russia, where the main military and economic resources of the empire were located.

Almost no one was held accountable for the "brainlessness" of our generals and admirals. Witte, who was effectively an agent of Western influence and played a huge role in dragging Russia into a conflict with Japan, was elevated to the rank of count by Nicholas II. For this, he was sarcastically nicknamed "Count Polusakhalinsky".

The Chief of the Fleet and the Naval Department, General Admiral, Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich, who was responsible for the "excellent" training of our armed forces in the Far East, retired while retaining the rank of General Admiral and went to Paris for a "well-deserved rest." A favorite place of the then Russian elite. His rival in the affairs of the fleet management and at the same time an accomplice in the Manchurian financial adventures, Grand Duke Alexander Mikhailovich, also went to the Cote d'Azur for several years.

The following were put on trial: the head of the Kwantung fortified region, Lieutenant General Stessel, the commandant of the Port Arthur fortress, Lieutenant General Smirnov, the head of ground defense, Lieutenant General Fok, the chief of staff of the Kwantung fortified region, Major General Reis, Vice Admiral Stark, and Rear Admirals Loshinsky, Grigorovich, and Viren.

The Supreme Military Criminal Court passed a sentence: Lieutenant General Stessel was to be executed "by firing squad", and Lieutenant General Fok was to be reprimanded. The court acquitted Smirnov and Reis, and the other charges were rejected even earlier. Tsar Nicholas II commuted Stessel's sentence to ten years of imprisonment in a fortress. But Stessel only spent about a year in the Peter and Paul Fortress and was released.

A similar situation occurred with the "heroes" of the Battle of Tsushima. Admiral Rozhestvensky was acquitted by the naval court, as he had been seriously wounded in the battle. The court found the detachment commander, Rear Admiral Nebogatov, and three ship commanders guilty of criminally surrendering ships to the enemy and sentenced them to death "by firing squad". The tsar replaced the death sentence with ten years of imprisonment in a fortress for all those sentenced to death. They served only a few months, and were then released.

This was already a systemic crisis of both the civilization and the Romanov project, as well as the state, leading to catastrophe.


The day after the peace was concluded, Punch published a cartoon with the significant title "Peace - and then?", in which the author's position was clearly visible. The wings of the angel of peace were spread over the soldiers of both armies leaving their positions. But above the head of the Japanese soldier, a laurel wreath of victory was visible, and at his feet, an oar with the inscription "Anglo-Japanese Alliance". And while the Japanese, followed by a white dove, moved towards the rising sun, the Russians were leaving into a thunderstorm.
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  1. +9
    26 August 2025 04: 04
    And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?
    The only thing I remember is: "Compared to 1913..."
    1. +3
      26 August 2025 07: 03
      Recently, for fun, I asked about the successes of Yeltsin's rule. And there were wow. I won't write here, but if you Google, ask about the achievements of Nicholas II's rule. You'll be very surprised.
      1. +9
        26 August 2025 07: 13
        Quote: Gardamir
        Recently, for fun, I asked about the successes of Yeltsin’s rule.

        In Google? Well, if it talks about the successes of EBN (although in our homeland they don’t hesitate to repeat this), then searching for the successes of Nicholas II’s reign in Google is like choosing a wife in a brothel... We studied it in school, and the bourgeoisie who came to power in 1991 simply idolized his “wisdom, foresight and will”, cursing the “filthy Bolsheviks”... Who will tell the whole truth?
        1. +2
          1 September 2025 09: 05
          You are a strange person. You ask a question about successes, and when you receive an answer about how to find them, you dismissively wave it away. But they wrote correctly to you: "you will be surprised." He who seeks will always find.
      2. +3
        26 August 2025 07: 33
        The enemies of the USSR, for the sake of benefit in their lying anti-Sovietism, strictly praise the last Russian monarch in order to create yet another one of the heap of anti-Soviet myths - "how everything was wonderful before the communists, Russia fed the whole world."
        And just as the communists compared their achievements not with the state in which they inherited the country after two wars, but with the best year for the Russian Empire, 1913, so for the enemies of the USSR, the reign of Nicholas II ends in 1913.
        And they betrayed Yeltsin, whom they imposed on us in June 1991, and threw his rule out of their anti-Soviet period, thereby admitting that everything they did under his leadership was, at a minimum, bad for the country and the people.
      3. +2
        26 August 2025 10: 35
        Quote: Gardamir
        Ask about the achievements of the reign of Nicholas II. You will be very surprised.

        An old liberal joke
        "Meeting of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
        The issue of assignment is under discussion
        Nicholas II, Order of Friendship of Peoples.
        The issue was resolved positively due to the fact that people lived normally for 70 years after it.
        The second question about awarding Nicholas II the Hero of Socialist Labor star was decided negatively, since the reserves were only enough for 70 years! (c)

        And just for example - under him the fortress of Kushka with a railway was created. This secured Turkestan and part of Central Asia for Russia
        1. +6
          26 August 2025 11: 11
          This secured Turkestan and part of Central Asia for Russia.
          And it doesn’t matter that Turkestan fell away in 1917 (except Tashkent) and had to be reconquered by Frunze in 1920?
          1. +7
            26 August 2025 12: 24
            Quote: Aviator_
            This secured Turkestan and part of Central Asia for Russia.
            And it doesn’t matter that Turkestan fell away in 1917 (except Tashkent) and had to be reconquered by Frunze in 1920?

            Well, of course he is to blame - he couldn’t prevent the collapse of the country and the revolution, no one argues.
            And Stalin is to blame - that under him in 1952 Gorbachev was accepted into the party. If they hadn't accepted him, Misha would have remained a combine operator - maybe another general secretary wouldn't have destroyed the country.
            1. -1
              21 December 2025 21: 49
              It's time to know that Gorbach was just the tip of the iceberg, everything is on the old yeast
          2. -4
            27 August 2025 11: 07
            Quote: Aviator_
            And it doesn't matter that Turkestan fell away in 1917

            Go to school finally.
        2. -11
          26 August 2025 11: 35
          Quote: your1970
          And just for example - under him the Kushka fortress with a railway was created

          For example, in the year 1900 alone, 5 thousand miles by railr!

          The population grew under Nicholas by 60 million people, by 50%- this has never happened before or since (and over the same 23 years by 1940 it grew by a false, pathetic 16%).

          Russia -world leader in locomotive building, construction of motor ships, steamships, pipelines, bridges, spatial structures, oil refining, grain growing, etc. Industrial growth rates are the best in the world

          Russia before the thieves -world leader in culture and art-our Akhmatovas and Yesenins and so on and so forth - all from there

          Russia is the leader in the judicial system and humanity penitentiary system - jury trials, fat-skinned Ulyanovs in exile, etc.

          Russia-free country - with freedom of speech, newspapers, parties, meetings, elections - in the State Duma peasants make up 50%, and in the Central Executive Committee of the USSR... 13,6%.

          Rapid growth in the number of schools - 4 thousand per year, universities (including women's), scientific institutions, polar research, Siberia, the Far East,

          Joining Russia new hundreds of thousands of km2- this is also Russia under Nicholas, as are the district clinics and local doctors.
          1. +6
            26 August 2025 15: 00
            For example, in 1900 alone, 5 thousand miles of railways were built.
            A good example, but not entirely correct from the point of view of systemic assessment.
            Firstly, this year is the only one
            secondly, it was not built, but put into operation.
            On average, over a five-year period, the situation is much more modest.
          2. +11
            26 August 2025 15: 20
            In the State Duma, peasants make up 50%
            Perhaps you meant that in the First Duma, 49% of the voters were from the peasantry (although the percentage of the peasantry, as a taxable group of the population, was 75%).
            But it was far from being peasants who were chosen.
            This Duma existed for 72 days and was dissolved. Not a super democracy.
            1. -5
              28 August 2025 11: 14
              Quote: balabol
              not peasants.
              This thought p

              2 Duma - 169 peasants plus Cossacks, plus dozens of people from the peasantry - in a peasant country the most powerful faction is the peasants.

              In the peasant USSR of the 20s, in the Central Executive Committee... 13,6% of peasants - "people's power".

              P.S. I forgot the main thing - under Nicholas, Russia was a country of the RUSSIAN people, where no one humiliated or insulted them with colonialism and oppression, did not rob them for the benefit of others and did not cut up the Russian territories of Novorossiya, Asia, etc.
              1. +3
                28 August 2025 23: 57
                Andrey, give us all the facts and figures.
                Second Duma - 102 days. Dissolved. Clearly in a democratic manner.
                Of the 518 deputies, 169 were "farmers", with the peasantry making up 75% of the population.
                The faction is not peasant, but "labor group and faction of the All-Russian Peasant Union and adjoining" - 104 members. Yes, the largest, but not only peasants and 20% of the Duma.
                More than half of the deputies have higher or incomplete higher education. Illiterate peasants could dictate the political agenda?
                No laws (except for a couple of minor ones) were passed.
                If you look at the press of that time, the main topics are that the elections were organized with powerful administrative resources to nominate people needed by the government, the Duma is incompetent and is a place for political discussions, not real lawmaking.
                And most importantly, according to the manifesto, the Duma's legislative capacity was seriously limited. (There's a lot to write about here)
                In general, the Duma was a poor copy of the classical bourgeois parliament in a country with a mass of feudal remnants (the main one being class society), created to “let off steam” during a period of revolutionary upheaval.
                1. -3
                  29 August 2025 10: 16
                  Quote: balabol
                  Second Duma - 102 days. Dissolved. Clearly in a democratic manner.

                  Legally.
                  Quote: balabol
                  Of the 518 deputies, 169 were "farmers", with the peasantry making up 75% of the population.

                  not bad - against the background of the state of the gabochi and gesta
                  Quote: balabol
                  . Could illiterate peasants dictate the political agenda?

                  of course, agrarian and they did it
                  Quote: balabol
                  In general, the Duma was a poor copy of the classical bourgeois parliament.

                  Democracy was developing in the country, ALL parties of Russia took part in the elections, RSDLP - dozens of deputies, and how many Cadets in the Central Executive Committee of the USSR? And the US is a model of democracy for the whole world in everything.
                  1. +2
                    29 August 2025 11: 28
                    not bad - against the background of the stateworkers and peasants - thank you, discussions are closed, goodbye
                    1. -4
                      30 August 2025 13: 29
                      Yes, that's exactly it and no other way.
          3. +6
            27 August 2025 00: 48
            Olgovich, stop using mamalyga, your brain is getting liquefied. Your head is a lumpy mess, how long can you be so loyal?
          4. +3
            4 September 2025 18: 23
            Here are the bastard people of the Russian Empire, they were dissatisfied again and so it always was. They lived well and here you have a revolution again. You are confusing different concepts of who lived and how and what they ate and drank, respectfully. The revolution did not start suddenly and not even with the money of the Germans. And the government of Nicholas II, like himself, turned out to be worthless and corrupt.
            1. -4
              5 September 2025 10: 29
              Quote from: odisey3000
              We lived well and then here comes the revolution again.

              We realized that we lived well when we started living poorly - after the VOR
              Quote from: odisey3000
              You are confusing different concepts, respected sir: who lived and how, and what they ate and drank.

              lived and ate much better than after the VOR
              Quote from: odisey3000
              And the government of Nicholas II, like himself, turned out to be worthless and corrupt.

              There was no one more corrupt, deceitful, cynical and worthless than the so-called Council of People's Commissars Sulyanov in the world. Millions of victims of hunger, war, devastation - his devastation.
              1. +3
                26 September 2025 17: 58
                What's there to argue about?
                If the supreme ruler ruled in such a way that the country ceased to exist, then he is a bad ruler.
          5. 0
            20 January 2026 13: 17
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russia is a leader in the judicial system and humaneness of the penitentiary system—jury trials, fat-skinned Ulyanovs in exile, etc.

            The terrorist who wounded the Black Sea Fleet admiral was publicly raped by the admiral's guards and then executed. Military units practiced marching drills over the graves of executed sailors in Helsinki. In the village of Sibirovka, my grandmother's brother was executed without trial by a clerk after he took a couple of potatoes from his lunch home for his sister. Immediately after 1991, Russia began exporting female slaves. According to Lev Dubinsky, who fought this type of crime, efficient businessmen from the former USSR sold approximately 50,000 slaves to sadistic brothels in Israel alone. In other words, 50,000 girls in Israel alone were subjected to torture. European and Muslim countries bought and continue to buy slaves in no lesser quantities. Russian literature (Kochnev's "Tales") mentions cases of girls from Ivanovo-Voznesensk being sold to the harems of the Emir of Bukhara during the Tsarist era. Only under the USSR did the Komsomol, Party Committee, and Provost Committee curb the base instincts of managers to turn industrial enterprises into brothels.
            1. -1
              20 January 2026 14: 14
              Quote: gsev
              Only under the USSR The Komsomol, the Party Committee, and the Provost Committee restrained the base instincts of managers to turn industrial enterprises into brothels.

              They raped under the threat of dispossession, camps, prison, exile, coupons, rations, imprisonment of husbands and children. In prisons and camps, there were harems of slaves, mass rapes of girls, by guards and criminals. The Kolyma tram and a large tram were used to help.
              1. +1
                20 January 2026 14: 31
                Quote: Olgovich
                raped under the threat of dispossession, camps,

                There were excesses for about five years after the start of collectivization. Before the establishment of collective farms, kulaks themselves could demand sexual favors for half a sack of flour, charged as interest. Besides, in the USSR, it was always possible to simply join the military, enroll in university, or join a Komsomol construction project. My relatives did just that. My grandfather enlisted in the peat mines, and his brother's son entered officer academy. When, in 1942, the chairman of a collective farm near Moscow approached my grandmother with a vile proposal, an OMSBON officer showed up at his house and, over copious amounts of alcohol, revealed that he had been sent to execute the hapless chairman, displaying a weapon and ammunition. A similar incident is described in Fonvizin's "The Minor." There, too, a brave special forces soldier subdues neighboring landowners who were intent on raping his fiancée. The nature of the Russian people hasn't changed much over the centuries of written Russian history.
        3. +11
          26 August 2025 11: 39
          Quote: your1970
          Meeting of the Central Committee of the CPSU.
          The issue of assignment is under discussion
          Nicholas II, Order of Friendship of Peoples.
          The issue was resolved positively due to the fact that people lived normally for 70 years after it.
          The second question about awarding Nicholas II the Hero of Socialist Labor star was decided negatively, since the reserves were only enough for 70 years!

          And before the 50th anniversary of the October Revolution, there was a joke about Nicholas II being awarded the Order of the October Revolution - for outstanding achievements in creating a revolutionary situation in Russia. smile
          1. -2
            21 December 2025 21: 55
            That's exactly it, because Lenin, back in 1916, said there are no conditions for revolution (not verbatim)
        4. +1
          26 August 2025 14: 14
          Well then you can also remember Murmansk, but it seems that this is all that is clear.
          1. 0
            26 August 2025 15: 33
            Quote: Zvezdochka
            Well then you can also remember Murmansk, but it seems that this is all that is clear.

            Turksib and BAM also started under him.
            1. -3
              27 August 2025 16: 37
              This was all planned and prepared under Alexander III. But the implementation began - under his good-for-nothing son.
              1. +2
                27 August 2025 18: 25
                Quote: bayard
                This was all planned and prepared under Alexander III. But the implementation began - under his good-for-nothing son.

                The gasification of the country was planned and prepared for almost 20 years under the USSR - but mass Gasification of rural settlements began under capitalism in the Russian Federation.
                1. 0
                  27 August 2025 19: 35
                  You've already received a minus, people don't agree.
                  In fact, the main gas pipelines from Urengoy (I knew the person who gave this field its name) to Europe were only extended in the 80s, so first they gasified the cities, converted the thermal power plants and thermal power plants to gas, and only then they extended them to the villages. But this is expensive and poorly profitable, so even under the bourgeoisie Gazprom categorically resisted such gasification. Or they broke the prices.
                  Moreover, gasification began earlier in Ukraine, because the main line there began to branch out, and the villages are located near the roads. And in Russia, villages and towns sometimes do not even have normal roads, and here gas is hauled hundreds of kilometers for the sake of a small village. People will not pay that much, the cost of the gas consumed will never cover it. That's why they resisted. Here, only state will and state financing are needed.
                  And all those correct programs and reforms that were implemented under Nikolka, ALL were prepared before him. There were more of them prepared (programs), but Tsar Koekaka could not accommodate all of this and he simply refused and removed from the court the worthy assistants of his father. He seemed to be afraid of their Mind. He did not understand, did not accommodate, and therefore he was afraid and simply did not let them near him.
                  1. 0
                    27 August 2025 22: 44
                    Quote: bayard
                    But it is expensive and poorly profitable, therefore, even under the bourgeoisie, Gazprom categorically resisted such gasification. Or it forced down prices.

                    Quote: bayard
                    So they resisted.

                    belay belay
                    1) Central Asia-Center (CAC) were built by 1973. In addition to them, there were a lot of gas pipelines with large volumes that allowed gasification of the village.
                    https://topwar.ru/251525-gaz-uzbekskij-gaz-turkmenskij-gaz-afganskij.html?1728491155908
                    2) by 1986, according to the Resolution of the Council of Ministers, all gasification plans were disrupted - only 4% were completed lol As many as 6% of rural settlements have been supplied with gas since 1972, when the persecution began for the sluggish implementation of the gasification program for rural settlements.
                    3) Bourgeois Gazprom gasified 1999% of rural settlements by 14
                    Ratio for 19 years of the USSR =6%, behind 8 years of filthy bourgeoisie - 8%+for another 6 years (2005) 26%
                    "The growth rate of gasification of rural areas is significantly ahead of the indicator for cities. If the level of gasification of cities is compared 2005 year increased by 1,2 times, from 60% to 73% (as of January 1, 2020), then villages and towns - by 1,8 times, from 34,8% up to 61,8%. In 2020, the company, according to preliminary data, will build another 1,7 thousand km of gas pipelines in rural areas, and the gasification level will increase to 64,8%.
                    again
                    -People's USSR with
                    Quote: bayard
                    state will and state financing.
                    behind 19 years - 6%
                    - bourgeois Gazprom for 14 years - 34%

                    Maybe this is the people's USSR DID NOT WANT gasify the village - since with "state financing and state will" he managed to gasify as much as 6%????!!!!!
                    1. +3
                      28 August 2025 00: 49
                      Now, stop spreading anti-Soviet sentiments here. stop And let's look closely at when the USSR explored giant gas fields in Siberia and when they managed to extend a gas pipeline from there. And before that, do you know where Moscow got its gas from? From near Lvov, a gas pipeline stretched from there. And gas was supplied to the Urals from Central Asia, and not the other way around. And so it was until those fields were completely exhausted. Now the former field behind the ZU is used/was used as a gas storage facility for additional gas from it in the winter for export to Europe.
                      And the gas pipeline from SA was later launched in the opposite direction with Siberian gas. So the resource for the complete gasification of the country appeared only after the construction of the Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod gas pipeline. Because only export contracts for export to Europe allowed and justified the start of industrial production of Siberian gas. Because it is very far away. There is such wildness there, swamps and distances ... and pipes for such volumes were not produced in the USSR at that time. So they simply could not decide to produce such a huge amount of gas on their own for a long time. And they found it by accident - they were looking for oil, but found gas. And they could not put out that huge flare for several years. Remember Kazantsev's "Burning Island"? I was inspired by that flare, and they managed to plug the well with an underground nuclear explosion.
                      And so, until this Siberian gas was pulled to Europe, through German pipes and on imported compressors and American main equipment/automation (our own was already appearing in the process), we did not have so much gas, there was a gas deficit in the country. Gas was even extracted from Afghanistan to fill the gas pipeline to the Urals due to the drying up of the deposits in Central Asia. But when gas from Siberia started flowing in the 80s, there was something to gasify everything in a row. And first of all, they started in Ukraine, because the gas pipeline branched out greatly there, and the industry there was significant then, that's why it all worked out there earlier. And even the European part of the RSFSR was started only in the late 80s. And they continued under the bourgeoisie. Because Gazprom was created from the Ministry of Gas Industry as a commercial structure back in Gorbachev's USSR, a couple of years before the collapse of the USSR. And for Gazprom, gasification of the country was already a business with excess resources, and not a social task. Once I had a very good friend - a leading specialist at the Oil and Gas Research Institute. A resource specialist. In the 90s, he headed a brainstorming group created by order of the minister to solve the most complex and urgent problems of the industry. After the dissolution of this group, he consulted for a long time for several leading oil companies of the Russian Federation and their banks.
                      Quote: your1970
                      by 1986, according to the Resolution of the Council of Ministers, all gasification plans were disrupted - only 4% were completed

                      But these are Gorbachev's tricks on the eve of the liquidation of the USSR. So many programs were closed then... I somehow started to collect information about this, especially on the closure of promising weapons systems, in space exploration, infrastructure projects, social programs... So this period is not an indicator at all.
                      Well, now that Gazprom's pipeline supplies to Europe have been cut off... there is an incentive to engage in gasification of one's own country and even remote settlements. Under the USSR, gasification was carried out by the state at its own expense, but now it is a business for Gazprom. And profit is always an incentive. This is neither good nor bad, it is just like that.
                      1. -1
                        28 August 2025 21: 28
                        When you talk about the USSR, your brain shuts down. It completely knocks you out, like a teenager, by God: "AAAA boobs... ugh, damn... USSR!! How awesome everything is!!!!"

                        You manage to write within 2 posts strictly the opposite:
                        Quote: bayard
                        During the USSR, gasification was carried out by the state at its own expense, but now it is a business for Gazprom. And profit always stimulates .

                        Quote: bayard
                        They'll haul gas hundreds of kilometers for the sake of a small village. People won't pay that much, the cost of the gas consumed will never cover it. That's why they resisted. There is only state will and state funding here. .

                        Bryansk
                        "Between 1980 and 1989, the region built 630 km inter-village gas pipelines, 1910 km of intra-village gas networks, gasified with natural gas 78101 apartment.
                        С 1990 on 1999 year was put into operation 1012 km of inter-village gas pipelines, 3314 km of intra-village gas networks, gasified with natural gas 107617 apartments, 368 heating boiler houses, 104 industrial and agricultural enterprises, 1045 public utility enterprises."
                        "damned capitalists" during the period complete chaos, robbery, collapse, war and anarchy in the country they managed to do in 2(TWO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) times more - than the idiots from the CPSU with "brainstorming" (although where would the brain come from??) in peacetime (!!!)

                        Quote: bayard
                        But these are Gorbachev's tricks on the eve of the liquidation of the USSR. So many programs were closed then...

                        are you kidding me??? fool He could close the last year of the program, no more - it was 5 years long and began in 1980. But if by the end of the day the results are as much as 6%, then that means that in 1980 and in 1981 and in 1982 and in 1983 and in 1984 - the USSR put a long and ribbed bolt on it.

                        There was no gas???lol...
                        "Ryazan was one of the first cities in Russia to receive gas. In 1953, permission was received to use natural gas from the Saratov field, transported via the Saratov-Moscow gas pipeline, for the needs of the population and municipal consumers, and the first design assignment was approved. 1954 In the year, a 6,5 km long branch was made from the Saratov-Moscow gas pipeline, a gas distribution station (GRS-1) was built, the first gas regulation point (GRP) was built, and gas supply was installed in the first apartments of city residents - residents of the Ryaztsvetmet plant settlement."

                        Quote: bayard
                        But now fool fool when Gazprom's pipeline supplies to Europe were cut off

                        for those who don't understand - what are they reading?
                        Quote: your1970
                        "The growth rate of gasification of rural areas is significantly ahead of the indicator for cities. If the level of gasification of cities is compared 2005 increased by 1,2 times over the year, from 60% to 73% (as of January 1, 2020), then villages and towns - by 1,8 times, from 34,8% to 61,8%In 2020, the company, according to preliminary data, will build another 1,7 thousand km of gas pipelines in rural areas, and the gasification level will increase to 64,8%.

                        Slowly - to 2005 34,8% were gasified, 2020 - 61,8%. What the hell were the sanctions in 2005 and 2020????????
                        The most important thing is to pump gas to the EU at a FAT price, that was the period!!!!! And Gazprom gasified the village mad at a rate that was not even close to being achieved in the USSR.
                        In which one could shit on some decrees of the wretched Council of Ministers - which were issued in 1954,1968,1972,1984,1986, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX with the begging "well comrades, let's gasify the village!!", and in response there was regular non-fulfillment of these Decrees.

                        Z.Y
                        Quote: bayard
                        During the USSR, gasification was carried out by the state at its own expense. lol lol score
                        - at 1974 in Aleksandrov Gai gasification of his house cost 970 belay rubles. Once again, in bold - nine hundred and seventy rubles.
                      2. +2
                        28 August 2025 22: 19
                        Quote: your1970
                        boobs...ugh, damn..USSR!!

                        Are you having an exacerbation?
                        I repeat for the sake of a particularly gifted interlocutor - SUCH an amount of gas in the main pipelines to be able to engage in "continuous gasification" appeared only in the 80s, when the main gas pipelines from Siberia to Europe were built. Before that, the gas produced in the European part of the country was not enough for all needs, and the already discovered Siberian deposits were inaccessible. With all the desire to engage in gasification of villages far from the main lines, there was simply nothing. And in the 80s there was no particular desire, because the country was being prepared for liquidation. And why are you here scratching at me about "boobs" and jitters about the late USSR? On January 2 or 3, 1992 (immediately after the liquidation of the USSR) I came to Moscow with a friend of Alisher Usmanov to visit another of their mutual friends (they were student friends) who was the Minister of the Coal Industry of the USSR. At that moment, he was taking out Soviet paraphernalia and portraits from his office and bringing in new ones, so we weren't even talking in the office, but in the hall. Everything had already been distributed back then, Usmanov had already received a gold-bearing deposit that had been discovered the day before and mothballed (a large vein that needed to be developed using mining methods, laying a large-section tunnel in a mountain (or hill, I can't remember now). This adit/tunnel was supposed to be laid/built by his (Usmanov's) friend, because he was a mine builder. They had been waiting for this for several years, the state hadn't been developing it, and the owner had long been appointed. So the late USSR at the top was a prelude to the "wild capitalism" of the 90s, everyone was waiting for and longing for this.
                        I don't need any details about the gasification that was carried out in the 90s and later, I didn't keep statistics, but I had a friend who worked as the chief accountant of the Gazprom trust for more than 20 years. In the Moscow region. They were engaged in this gasification. Because there was an excess of gas, and demand.
                        And Ukraine was almost completely gasified, even the villages, precisely because the gas transportation system to Europe branched out right on its territory. And the gasification of villages, and actively at that, began there right in the 80s, and continued in the 90s and later. But before that, all the thermal power plants worked on coal.
                        So I don't know what boobs you're thinking about, but I wrote that before the early 80s there simply wasn't enough main gas to gasify the country. But I remember well that in one regional center in the Southern Urals (in the 90s it was given back the status of a stanitsa), which was just a big village, there was gas. Probably the main line passed nearby. And in other villages and hamlets they heated with wood or, at best, imported coal. Now there is an opportunity to gasify the country, including remote settlements, and that's great. Putin has long been pressuring Gazprom to start such gasification, and they resisted because of unprofitability. But apparently the pressure had an effect.
                        And stop making faces here.
                        The USSR as a memory of youth and childhood is one thing, as a social system is another. As an example of ineffective (often deliberately harmful) management of the country and economy is the third. And the Russian Federation with the shame of the 90s and "getting up off its knees" on all fours for a quarter of a century is the fourth. I distinguish between these concepts. And you seem to have only "boobs".
                      3. -2
                        28 August 2025 22: 54
                        Quote: bayard
                        I distinguish between these concepts.

                        it's just you who don't differentiate between concepts
                        Quote: bayard
                        RF with the shame of the 90s and "getting up off its knees" on all fours for a quarter of a century
                        - prepared by the "communists" - who divided the country
                        Quote: bayard
                        and the owner had already been appointed long ago. So the late USSR at the top was a prelude to the "wild capitalism" of the 90s, everyone was waiting for and longing for this.

                        and it was NOT the "damned capitalists" who lost everything, but the communists of the 1970-1980s who managed to turn everything they touched into feces.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Before this, the gas produced in the European part of the country was not enough to meet all needs.
                        I repeat for the third time - the first two times you didn’t get it - there was already enough gas in the country for everything in the 1950s.
                        But instead of gasification HIS the communist countries dragged pipes to the FRG - and heated their country with firewood, coal, oil shale, peat and other crap. And the lousy NATO FRG was completely gasified by 1980 - but the damned capitalists with currency lived there, and not their own residents who never told the communists anything - why should they be gasified????
                        that's what it was
                        Quote: bayard
                        ineffective (often deliberately harmful) management of the country and the economy
                        - they were already incapable of more in principle in 1970

                        Quote: bayard
                        appeared only in 80-ies , when the main gas pipelines from Siberia to Europe were built
                        -Yeah, yeah, yeah,"1980s" = 1972- You don’t even understand how stupid it looks to pull an owl onto a globe just to justify the USSR.

                        I have documented for you that there was gas up to our ears, there were systematically non-implemented Council of Ministers Resolutions and there was an acute reluctance to gasify our country.
                        And you tell some jokes about the gas shortage in the 1980s - when gas 20 years from Siberia and Central Asia to Europe they pumped at a rapid pace
                      4. +4
                        29 August 2025 00: 10
                        Yes, the autumn exacerbation is progressing.
                        Quote: your1970
                        - prepared by the "communists" - who divided the country

                        Quote: your1970
                        and it was NOT the "damned capitalists" who lost everything, but the communists of the 1970-1980s who managed to turn everything they touched into feces.

                        Sirozha, I have never been a member of the CPSU, much less the CPRF or any other party. Moreover, I left the Komsomol back in March 1989, officially and probably for the first time in the USSR Armed Forces. And at the same time, I remained in operational work. But our country is governed by a member of the CPSU, who probably never even handed in his party card. And Yeltsin and his comrades were not just communists, but top-level party nomenclature. And our oligarchs are, at a minimum, former Komsomol leaders. At least those whom I knew personally. And they began their activities under the wing of the CPSU, the Central Committee of the Komsomol and the KGB of the USSR. So your coveted capitalists are those very same communists and Komsomol members who so "ineffectively" governed the USSR since 1955. They renamed the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) so as not to be the heirs of the Bolsheviks, because they were convinced Trotskyists. And Trotsky, in turn, was a protégé of the so-called "world capital" - Yankel Schiff - a trusted representative of the Rothschild clan in the USA, the sponsor of all three "Russian revolutions". So let's take a sedative and begin to repent. Because then and now, the same people are still in the arena, but after rebranding.
                        Quote: your1970
                        There was already enough gas in the country for everything in the 1950s.

                        Stop talking nonsense, she's already screaming in pain.
                        Quote: your1970
                        But instead of gasifying THEIR country, the communists dragged pipes to Germany

                        Yes, because both the pipes and all the main equipment were from Germany and the USA. And it seems like the loans for this construction were also. At that time, the country did not have the technical capability to pull main gas pipelines from Siberia, and there was no experience of doing so. And once the main lines were pulled, all the regions nearby began to be gasified from them, and then they pulled them further. And the production of pipes, compressors and other equipment was later established. But before this epic, there was no opportunity for this. Technically. And they did not dare to experiment with homemade products. Look at the timing of events, so as not to seem ridiculous. At first, Moscow received gas from the Lvov field. And pumped it out to the bottom. Although I was not interested in this issue in detail, we touched on this story in conversations, and Martsenkovych made a program on this topic.
                        And if you are so itchy about "communists", look in the mirror and spit with all your heart, maybe it will get easier. And with me you missed. In general, I am closer to the Slavophiles.
                        Quote: your1970
                        They heated their country with firewood, coal, oil shale, peat and other crap.

                        We heated it with whatever we had, our country is cold. Have you ever had to light a stove? And warm yourself on a Russian stove?
                        In Russia, you can't even get to some villages during the muddy season, there were no normal roads, and he wanted gas. They gave him as much as he had. Only now they export an order of magnitude more gas than under the communists... former communists. Were you a party member? Or a Komsomol member? That's right, Sirozha. Stand in front of the mirror and spit, get revenge on him for everything.
                      5. -2
                        29 August 2025 02: 39
                        Quote: bayard
                        At that time, the country did not have the technical capability to extend gas pipelines from Siberia, and there was no experience of doing so. And how did they extend the pipelines?

                        that is, the technical capabilities allowed it to be pulled from Lvov to Moscow and the experience came from somewhere - and then, fuck, the experience evaporated by 1970 - by the time highways were built???
                        It's funny how quickly the engineering and technical staff became stupid, according to your statement
                        .And then again bam and SAC in 1973 somehow managed again

                        Quote: bayard
                        It's just that now they export an order of magnitude more of that same gas than they did under the communists...
                        - but at the same time they gasify their population and don’t give it to the Czechs for free - 10 years under the USSR

                        Quote: bayard
                        Sirozha
                        -there are no facts -so there are no arguments except for distorting the name? You are probably embarrassed by your own, right?
                      6. +3
                        29 August 2025 03: 12
                        Quote: your1970
                        that is, the technical capabilities allowed it to be pulled from Lvov to Moscow and the experience came from somewhere - and then, fuck, the experience evaporated by 1970 - by the time highways were built???

                        The scale is not the same, the volumes, the cross-section of the pipeline, the pressure, and the length of the pipeline in a harsh climate through the tundra, swamps, taiga. It is expensive, difficult and complicated, only large volumes would justify it, but there was no competence for this. This pipeline was calculated and assessed for a long time and a decision was made to involve Western technologies after all. The issue was included in the list during the negotiations (secret) with the USA in the early 0s, which began with Zorin's trip to the USA, instead of showing the third episode of "The Mysterious Billionaire", which was never shown, and perhaps was not filmed). That's when we agreed on everything. The USA did not interfere with the construction of the gas pipeline to Western Europe, the supply of pipes from Germany and equipment from the USA. Later, the USA refused to supply us with compressors, but we managed on our own. And when the gas mains from Siberia were extended, gas appeared in abundance, and we had the technology, the expertise, and Gazprom (a couple of years before the liquidation of the USSR).
                        Quote: your1970
                        bdysch and SAC in 1973 somehow managed again

                        Other volumes, pressure, climate. Everything was simpler with it. But the construction of Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod through swamps, tundra and taiga, that was an epic on the level of the BAM epic.
                        Quote: your1970
                        - but at the same time they gasify their population

                        Yes, because there is excess gas! And we can build any gas pipeline under any conditions. And now we are even capable of laying it along the seabed - thanks to the "streams".
                        When there is a surplus of a product, then you can be generous with your own people. But it was the construction of those first main pipelines that laid the foundation for this opportunity (the gasification of the country and the extraction of pipeline gas from hard-to-reach fields). Before that, there was little gas, and there was insufficient competence.
                        Quote: your1970
                        -there are no facts -so there are no arguments other than distorting the name?

                        Well, how did you start shouting about boobs? lol couldn't resist.
                      7. -1
                        30 August 2025 12: 31
                        Saratov - Moscow was built in 1946 - Stepnovsky and Lebedevsky gas is still there.

                        You still haven't understood - that there was excess gas for domestic consumption, and the diameter of the pipelines was quite sufficient. But when it became urgent to trade with Germany - large diameter pipes and technologies were required exclusively for this. Without selling - the existing ones coped quite well.

                        The construction of the SAC is no less an epic - deserts are a little worse than swamps.
                      8. +3
                        30 August 2025 15: 36
                        Quote: your1970
                        Deserts are a little worse than swamps.

                        What-What??!
                        Have you ever laid anything on permafrost? On soils that move seasonally? What kind of equipment will you use to work through swamps? When the summer is short and the winter is harsh, and what was built in the winter will already float in the spring and summer?
                        Don't write more on this topic, it's clearly not your thing.
                      9. +2
                        30 August 2025 19: 13
                        Quote: bayard
                        Don't write more on this topic, it's clearly not your thing.

                        Build something in the desert at +60, when in January (!!) during the day it is +22, and at night -15.
                        When the trench is covered with sand in half an hour, you still just have to be able to dig it out with the walls collapsing.
                        When the "Afghan" blows so much that his hand is not visible.
                        DEET helps at least a little against midges, but there is no escape from the sand in the air.
                        Don't write more on this topic, it's clearly not your thing.
                2. 0
                  20 January 2026 13: 24
                  Quote: your1970
                  - but the mass gasification of rural settlements began under capitalism in the Russian Federation.

                  Gasification was fully implemented in Ukraine. In Russia, Gazprom is sabotaging it. In 1998, for example, during gasification, a mandatory fee of 1000 rubles was imposed for the design of a flexible hose, even though the hose itself cost 30 rubles and its installation was simply the tightening of two nuts. Gasification is being implemented in such a way that it's currently more profitable to heat your home with wood even in New Moscow. I saw a factory in the Moscow region that manufactured equipment for the majority of Azerbaijani plastic beverage bottling plants using wood heating. In Kiknur, even the industrial ovens at the bakery were still wood-fired for 12 years.
                  1. 0
                    20 January 2026 19: 00
                    Quote: gsev
                    In Russia, Gazprom is sabotaging its implementation. belay .

                    Well, if Gazprom is sabotaging, then the Honduras of the USSR era, who in 12 years gasified 6% (including bottled gas!!) of rural settlements by 1986 and fulfilled annual gasification plans from 1 to 3% (!!!!!!) instead of 100% - they are Honduras.
                    For the period from 1992 to 1999, Gazprom gaited 14%
                    Our region was completely gasified in 2001.
                    And with New Moscow everything is simple lol lol lol
                    2 examples
                    1) In 1998, the French wanted to open a chalk processing plant for cosmetics. Between the quarry and the site were three fields of 42 hectares each. The owners wanted $2 million per hectare—for the entire field. The land had to be rezoned from agricultural to industrial through the governor. The French estimated the costs and abandoned the trailers they'd already brought.
                    2) Right now, gas workers are paying 320,000 a year to rent land under 12 power line poles leading to a gas well. belay
                    The entire 32 hectare field of wheat brings him 400,000 in profit in a good year (once every 5 years).
                    50 sq. m. (without working) versus 320,000 sq. m. (working like crazy)
                    Money ratio lol Do you understand?
                    And in New Moscow - there billions We need to pay for the rent of land under gas pipelines...
                    1. 0
                      21 January 2026 03: 58
                      Quote: your1970
                      And in New Moscow, they need billions to rent land for gas pipelines...

                      The problem is that private land ownership in Russia is stupid and sabotage, like many vestiges of capitalism. Although, what could be simpler than forcing private owners to hand over land at a state valuation for the implementation of state projects? In your case, it's simply a conspiracy between the gas company and the landowner, and perhaps the gas company's managers take a cut of the rent. I have a friend who worked for an Afghan mobile phone company. He earned $1000 a month from just one cell phone tower in the Kabul area, having bought the top of a hill at the right time, a convenient location for the tower.
                      1. 0
                        21 January 2026 11: 14
                        Quote: gsev
                        The problem is that in Russia private ownership of land is stupid and sabotage, like many remnants of capitalism.

                        The problem is that the earth NOT was being drawn up FORCED along with the building - that was the fashion.
                        And now a ton of people with unregistered land (approximately 40% of the country) are running around with their eyes wide open, "My neighbor built on my land!!!!" Batalov's saga with the neighbor's bathhouse has been a constant fixture on TV for a long time.
                        But when you start to figure it out, the people haven't registered the land and that's it, kids...
                        And about 24% of houses in the country are not registered - that's a whole 1000 rubles in taxes saved per year. fool fool fool and then their eyes widen, "Wheee ...

                        Quote: gsev
                        In your case, this is simply a conspiracy between the gas company and the landowner, and it is possible that the gas company's managers have a share of the rent payments.

                        Why share them with anyone? lol lol Back in the 1990s, they received court orders to collect payments for land actually used by gas companies. And then they filed complaints with Rosreestr, and they slapped the gas companies with fines.
                        Your Afghan may be left without money if the cell phone tower is moved – and our gas workers will only be able to do that when the field runs out in about 40 years...

                        Quote: gsev
                        Although what could be simpler? lol oblige the private owner to give lol land under state lol assessment of its cost for the implementation of government projects
                        Google "land scandals before the 2014 Sochi Olympics." That's where land was seized with payment. The problem is that it was seized in on average for 2 million plot - at the cadastral value, and the market price reached up to 70 million..
                        One of the recent ones in the south is that the owner killed two bailiffs who came to notify him of the demolition of an illegal hotel by a court order.
                        Gazprom has been demolishing unauthorized houses in the security zone of main gas pipelines for 10 years now - through the courts.... Can you imagine what it's like to have 600 square meters of land in the Moscow region above gas pipelines with a cadastral value of 70,000 rubles per plot? belay belay lol lol - I would strain myself, take out loans and buy 100 at that price belay price - and the market price of roughly 1 million?
                      2. +1
                        22 January 2026 16: 26
                        Quote: your1970
                        Your Afghan may be left without money if the cell phone tower is moved -

                        Things were a bit different there. For a long time, he regularly received his thousands of dollars, while inequality in Afghanistan grew at the same rate as in Russia. But then the Taliban arrived, and the land rent recipient was forced to move to the United States. Incidentally, the Americans sent two planes to pick him up, as he hadn't bothered to arrive on time on the first one. If effective managers are going to force people to conform to their principles, gleaned from textbooks written in the United States for the comprador bourgeoisie in the semi-colonies of the United States, then perhaps many in Putin's circle will have to heed the experience of my Afghan friend. Incidentally, I was specifically referring to the dangers of market relations for large projects. After all, the oil and gas industry and transportation should not be a source of unearned income for private companies.
                      3. 0
                        22 January 2026 16: 54
                        Quote: gsev
                        Perhaps many of Putin's circle will have to take advantage of the experience of my Afghan friend.

                        Hmm, if the government changes, they'll of course impale Chubais (or crush him with an asphalt roller on live television), but the population will have much more trouble than that - because the people's state will take away excess apartments, land, force AWOLs to demolish, make them pay taxes through the criminal justice system (remember the taxes on apple trees?), and also a mountain of good deeds - to put the people in line.
        5. -1
          30 August 2025 08: 06
          hello as they used to say in the USSR in military schools
          They won't send you further than Kushka, they won't give you another platoon
          1. 0
            30 August 2025 08: 18
            Quote: Ivan Kuzmich
            they won't give you more than a platoon

            Less.
        6. -2
          31 August 2025 08: 46
          Seriously? And how firmly did it fix it?
          Do you know who Amangeldy Imanov is? In today's Kazakhstan, he is a national hero.

          The main "achievement" of Nicholas II is that he brought his empire to collapse and deserted (removing his duties as Supreme Commander-in-Chief along with his abdication) in the midst of the war.
          1. -2
            31 August 2025 09: 46
            Quote: Illanatol
            Seriously? And how firmly did it fix it?
            Do you know who Amangeldy Imanov is? In today's Kazakhstan, he is a national hero.

            The main "achievement" of Nicholas II is that he brought his empire to collapse and deserted (removing his duties as Supreme Commander-in-Chief along with his abdication) in the midst of the war.

            Well, if we proceed from the current "national heroes", then Ukraine also had no relation to the Russian Empire and was not assigned to it, right?
            And yes, the abdication was written in pencil in the company of generals. traitors - generals demanding a change of Commander-in-Chief during a war - traitors in any Criminal Code of any country in the world at any time.
            1. -1
              1 September 2025 14: 22
              No. Judging by the current "national heroes", Ukraine was enslaved by "Muscovite imperialism" for centuries, groaned heavily and laboriously. For centuries, Muscovite tsars drank the blood of Ukrainian babies.

              In such cases it is customary to say: "like priest, like parish". Who appointed these generals to their positions? Reptilians from the planet Nebiru?

              The court makes the king. How did it happen that Nicholas had no loyal courtiers and why? Why didn't he simply order the arrest of these traitors, calling in the guards? Why didn't he protest his abdication, signed under pressure? Why was the abdication itself perceived by the "broad masses" quite positively? Why weren't the heads of state, allies of Tsarist Russia, very upset by Nicholas's abdication? The Provisional Government received congratulatory telegrams from the allies. Like, well done, the Russians, they finally threw off the yoke of autocracy. How is it that "the entire civilized world" assessed the actions of the "traitor generals" quite positively?
              Isn't this evidence that Russia has found itself in a deep political dead end?
              And even Nikolai's closest relatives, who wore the crown, did nothing to save his life and that of his household. The English, in fact, refused him political asylum. And Kaiser Wilhelm (his cousin, so to speak) did not even think of including in the terms of the Brest Peace the requirement for the Bolsheviks to allow the Romanovs to leave Russia.
              Nobody needed Nikolashka. The inglorious end of the Romanov dynasty...
              1. -1
                2 September 2025 02: 38
                It seems that you think that I am Nicolas 2 defending...
                lol lol lol
                He, just like the USSR, created a situation where no one gives a damn who or what is up there...
                1. 0
                  2 September 2025 08: 09
                  They themselves gave reason to think so. Everyone betrayed poor Nicholas, there are traitors all around! The whole country is out of step, only the autocrat is as he should be.

                  Yeah, we should blame everything on the top. The Tsar or the General Secretary or the next President turned us into indifferent people. Maybe we ourselves are a little to blame, starting with ourselves?

                  We have turned into a herd of bourgeois people, and now we blame someone for the fact that everything is not as it should be.
              2. +2
                20 January 2026 13: 29
                Quote: Illanatol
                How did it happen that Nicholas had no loyal courtiers and why?

                The Tsar's mental abilities were far below average and therefore he attracted people who were less intelligent.
                1. 0
                  20 January 2026 13: 37
                  Quote: gsev
                  Quote: Illanatol
                  How did it happen that Nicholas had no loyal courtiers and why?

                  The Tsar's mental abilities were far below average and therefore he attracted people who were less intelligent.

                  Someone he reminds me of ...
        7. +3
          31 August 2025 16: 42
          [/i]The issue was resolved positively due to the fact that people lived normally for 70 years after it.
          /////
          They lived normally after they defeated the devastation and famine in the country, as a consequence of two wars (including foreign intervention). They defeated general illiteracy. They won the Great Patriotic War and then completely restored the economy destroyed by the war.
          And the joke is certainly good!)
          If you believe that Leonid Ilyich personally composed jokes, then this is definitely one of those.
          1. +1
            20 January 2026 13: 45
            Quote: Pavel Kosse
            And the joke is certainly good!)

            This is if we judge by Soviet films where SS men and tsarist officers were constantly seen in restaurants with a choir of models raising their bare thighs to the music. According to stories told by grandparents, life under the tsar was like a summer spent eating only quinoa and no bread. In 1985, it was hard to believe that all the bearings, machine tools, and aircraft engines were imported, and that soon everything would be almost the same again after 1991.
      4. +2
        26 August 2025 12: 07
        Nikolai Alexandrovich is also doing great. As is Vladimir Vladimirovich. Everything is great.
        1. +1
          26 August 2025 16: 28
          2) the lack of an iron will on the part of the military-political leadership of Russia in waging war; ...

          Almost no one was held accountable for the “brainlessness” of our generals and admirals.

          I’m not hinting at anything.
          1. +1
            27 August 2025 16: 38
            Quote: Quzmi4
            I’m not hinting at anything.

            Even to "a state like under Nicholas II"?
    2. +6
      26 August 2025 08: 03
      1913 was a very fruitful and relatively prosperous year.
      Nicholas II had no particular achievements. In fact, the country developed largely by inertia; the impetus for development was given by Alexander III, one of the most intelligent emperors of Russia. Nicholas quite successfully squandered polymers, the legacy of his father.

      And he had a fair amount of help in this. One of the railway engineers who, after the disaster of the Tsar's train, gained the trust of the last emperor and became prime minister, could well have sent a telegram to London, to the MI6 office: "The infiltration operation was successful. Your agent and brother in the Witte lodge."
      1. +5
        26 August 2025 18: 53
        Quote: Illanatol
        Alexander III, one of the most intelligent emperors of Russia.

        Quote: Illanatol
        One of the railway engineers who, after the disaster of the Tsar's train, gained the trust of the last emperor

        Somehow one thing doesn't fit with the other. Because this railway worker got into the ministerial office just under beforethe last emperor.
        Quote: Illanatol
        Nikolai quite successfully squandered the polymers, his father’s inheritance.

        If it comes down to it, Father Nikolai inherited Witte in the Ministry of Finance, and VK Alexei Alexandrovich at the head of the fleet, and Vannovsky at the head of the Ministry of War.
        1. +1
          27 August 2025 08: 36
          So what? If the ruler is reasonable and pursues a policy in his own interests, is this a reason to refuse attempts to bring his agent into his entourage? Rather the opposite. But under Alexander, the same Witte could not fully implement his program. Witte proposed introducing the same gold ruble to Alexander, but he wisely refused, adhering to the policy of protectionism. But under Nicholas, it went like clockwork. The introduction of internal convertibility of the ruble led to what such a measure naturally leads to in our country - to capital flight abroad. There is no need to explain who benefited from this.

          Well, the fact that there were imbalances in military construction under Nicholas was clearly demonstrated by subsequent wars. Yes, Alexander, perhaps, also made a mistake by signing a military treaty with France, which had an anti-German orientation, and which became the beginning of the Entente. However, there was still room for political maneuver. And Nicholas, with his short-sighted policy, took the most disadvantageous path for Russia.
          1. -1
            27 August 2025 17: 31
            Alexander III considered the alliance with France a temporary measure, on the one hand to counterbalance Germany's initiatives in the Balkans, on the other - to obtain the necessary competencies in modern military shipbuilding. Alexander III needed a modern fleet. The treaty had a term and the tsar was not going to extend it. This is from Sharapov's memoirs about communication with Alexander III.
            He really messed up with Witte. Instead of leaving him under investigation as a suspect and involved in the explosion of the restaurant car of the tsar's train, he succumbed to the impressions of the newspaper hysteria raised by Witte's agents in order to save the criminal under investigation. In order to calm the unrest and gossip in society from these newspaper ducks, he removed suspicion from Witte, released him from investigation and house arrest, and even honored him with a meeting. The latter was not worth doing. Witte was an excellent psychologist and manipulator and managed to "charm the tsar". But Alexander-3 was unable to properly discern him in the case - he was killed after all, but not with a bomb, but with poison. And it would have been easy for this manipulator to saddle the incredibly dim-witted Niki-2. And from that moment on, the Russian Empire was doomed.
            Such a disgusting outcome of the Russian Navy could have been avoided and its course could have been reversed even at the moment of the fatal decision to order the 2nd Squadron to go to Vladivostok from Cam Ranh. Simply by leaving the 2nd and 3rd Squadrons in Cam Ranh with the task of conducting a naval blockade of Japan and preventing its supplies. And that's all - WAIT.
            Wait for the completion of the Circum-Baikal Railway (the southern branch) and the arrival of fresh reinforcements to Kuropatkin's Army, which had been accumulating in the Baikal region all this time. And then wait for the Army, having received a numerical advantage and sufficient supplies, to begin to break the Japanese in Manchuria, pushing them into Korea or, on the contrary, cutting them off from supplies and completely destroying them.
            Wait until the completed battleship Slava arrives, or perhaps they would have waited for both "first-borns", which were hastily laid down and built with enhanced armament. And with the arrival of these full-fledged battleships, Rozhdestvensky would have already had 10 of them. And perhaps Potemkin would have refrained from causing a crew mutiny and, having dragged itself through the straits, would have rowed to Cam Ranh.
            And then in 1906 - the complete defeat and destruction of the Japanese armies on land, the return of Arthur, the liberation of Korea, the approach of fully-fledged naval forces from Cam Ranh and the conduct of a landing operation on the Japanese islands - all according to the Kuropatkin Plan. So just ONE CORRECT DECISION was capable of reversing the entire course of the war.
            But on the throne was a clinical idiot, and in the prime minister's chair was a notorious scoundrel. Therefore, the Empire was doomed. And the Romanov dynasty and the political system of Russia itself received a historical verdict.
            The risk of such an idiot appearing on the throne was unacceptable to allow in the future.
            1. +1
              29 August 2025 08: 34
              Quote: bayard
              Wait until the completed battleship Slava arrives, or perhaps they would have waited for both "first-borns", which were hastily laid down and built with enhanced armament. And with the arrival of these full-fledged battleships, Rozhdestvensky would have already had 10 of them. And perhaps Potemkin would have refrained from causing a crew mutiny and, having dragged itself through the straits, would have rowed to Cam Ranh.


              I disagree. Rozhdestvensky's squadron, in my opinion, was doomed from the start. And a couple of ships could change little.
              How many thousands of miles did the ships of that squadron travel before the rendezvous in the Tsushima Strait? Even by modern standards, it was not the easiest passage. And considering the conditions of service at that time?
              In all fairness, after such a passage the ships' crews needed a fairly long rest (first of all, the stokers), and the ships needed at least preventive maintenance. The steam boilers were worn out, the fire control systems (rangefinders) required recalibration after constant pitching. How many shots did the Russian gunners conduct during the passage? The Japanese had everything OK with the simulator. The sailors were not tired, the equipment was in order. In the battle, understanding the enemy's condition, the Japanese tried to keep their distance. The hits from the Russian shells caused sufficient damage, but there were few hits for quite objective reasons.
              The Russians had no chance of winning at Tsushima and could not have had any. The conditions were too unequal.

              The sending of this squadron itself was a mistake. As was the war as a whole.
              1. 0
                29 August 2025 11: 32
                Quote: Illanatol
                The sending of this squadron itself was a mistake. As was the war as a whole.

                The Russian Empire had no right to choose in this war - the initiative belonged to the enemy, because he was buying time. He had a window of opportunity of 2-2,5 years and he would not have refused the war even if Korea had been ceded to him. Simply by introducing the army into Korea after such agreements, the very beginning of the war would have become even more unexpected and dangerous for us.
                Regarding the second squadron, it is also incorrect - the 2nd squadron was urgently needed in Arthur, it was prepared in an emergency mode, and outfitting/finishing/finishing work on some ships continued even during the campaign itself. It was a mistake to send battleships around Africa for the sake of Witte's adventure with the secret purchase of exotic cruisers, but in fact to prevent Rozhdestvensky from getting to Arthur before his fall. If the 2nd squadron had passed through Suez to Arthur by forced march without making unnecessary stops, it would have arrived on time - BEFORE the battle in the Yellow Sea, when the Japanese fleet was divided and already tired from long services based in the Formosa roadstead, when its ships already required repairs. Our ships after the crossing would have been quite fresh and had every chance of a breakthrough. But for this, only battleships and a couple of cruisers (preferably "pebbles") for reconnaissance were supposed to go through. And the rest, based at Cam Ranh, began a blockade of trade routes to Japan. If events had followed this scenario, then the arrival of the second squadron would have ruined the entire pattern of war at sea, a breakthrough was guaranteed simply because the 1st squadron was going to rendezvous with the 2nd, and even just the withdrawal of the 1st squadron to Arthur's roadstead put Togo in front of a dilemma - whom to attack, the 1st squadron under fire from coastal batteries and among mine banks, or go to meet the 2nd squadron, giving the initiative to the 1st squadron. Remember the battle in the Yellow Sea and how the scales swung? And if the "Bayan" had also been intact and in service? Meanwhile, the battleships of the second squadron are inexorably approaching - 7 squadron battleships (4 "Borodinets", "Oslyabya", "Sisoy", "Navarin"). If Togo had nevertheless gone to intercept Rozhdestvensky, the 1st squadron would have simply followed him, forcing him to constantly look back. But Togo has only 4 battleships and 4 armored cruisers, because another 4 armored cruisers are guarding our Vladivostok cruisers, which would also have come out to hang around (not at Tsushima, but as always - to play pranks). Here's the situation at the time of Rozhdestvensky's breakthrough - Togo has 8 armored ships near Arthur, we have 7 armored ships in Arthur, and Rozhdestvensky has 7 armored ships. Things are going well - when our two squadrons would have simply collapsed on Togo's detachment. And only his superiority in squadron speed would have saved him. The end of the naval blockade of Arthur, the beginning of our naval blockade of the port of Dalniy captured by the Japanese and other captured ports for supplying the land army. Regular campaigns of our fleet to the shores of Korea to disrupt the supply of the Japanese expeditionary forces. And Togo would have simply rushed about, unable to give a decisive battle. Still, 12 against 14, when you have 4 battleships and 8 armored cruisers, and the enemy has 10 battleships and 4 armored cruisers (Bayan and 3 Peresvetets)... it's kind of scary. We wouldn't be able to undertake naval landings, and perhaps the Japanese would have managed to hold on to Chemulpo and a number of southern Korean ports, but... that would have been the maximum possible for them.
                And we had the opportunity to transfer a couple of fresh divisions and supplies to Arthur by sea. In this case, with naval support from the sea, the Japanese would have been pushed back from Liaodong altogether. It was still 1904, and the Japanese were already starting to feel worse.
                But we are in no hurry to fight them, we are only squeezing them away from Arthur. And not even very hard, so that the Japanese would keep two of their armies there. But without a chance of a successful attack. And without supplies by sea. Only through the southern ports of Korea. And in this mode we are waiting for the second half of 1905, when our ground forces accumulated at Baikal will finally be able to arrive at Kuropatkin's disposal. And then the time for Revenge comes.
                Meanwhile, the 3rd squadron with coastal defense battleships is approaching, which will be very useful for blockading ports in Korea, and then Japan - when it comes to transferring the war to the samurai islands. According to Kuropatkin's plans, all of Japan should be captured, cleansed, and the emperor sent to St. Petersburg in a cage.
                All this is possible if Rozhdestvensky makes a forced march to break through to Arthur, ignoring Witte’s intrigues.

                But even if Rozhdestvensky, like a donkey, went around Africa, hung around in Madagascar and showed up in Cam Ranh when Arthur had already fallen... there was a way out and I described it in the post above. His squadron included the Kamchatka repair base, it was possible to at least overhaul the machines, conduct a naval blockade with cruisers and wait for reinforcements and the beginning of offensive actions from Kuropatkin.
                For this war, when the initiative at the beginning does not belong to us, a Long Will was needed. And Intelligence. Which the Tsar did not have.
                1. 0
                  29 August 2025 13: 31
                  The passage through Suez is extremely unlikely, considering who owned the canal. What prevented the British from blocking the passage of the Russian squadron? Moreover, what prevented the British from directly taking the side of the Japanese? Let's not forget that the Japanese created their naval power with the help of the British. Against China?
                  Japan... in fact, in the region, they were preparing for it the same role as Turkey once had, that is, a watchdog. When the Turks began to suffer defeats from Russian weapons, who helped the Turks? Let's remember the Crimean War. Couldn't something like this happen again?

                  Well, to be honest, I don't understand Russia's imperialism game at all. Why would we need Korea then? What would we do with it? Wouldn't it be better to start developing our own territories? The Far East is not a place to lie around, they could have spent decades developing and developing there without being distracted by Korea and China. After all, the relations between Russia and Japan were initially quite good, the Japanese didn't really need our Far East. There are plenty of neighboring countries, less developed, rich in resources and where rice grows well.

                  And let's be honest, there were a lot of stupid things done on our part to make the Japanese start showing their "initiative". Russia didn't need this war and it could have been avoided if foreign policy and diplomacy had been more adequate.

                  Well, yes, a small victorious war to cover up the consequences of the economic crisis. Not so small and not so victorious.
                  1. 0
                    29 August 2025 15: 04
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    And let's be honest, there were a lot of stupid things done on our part to make the Japanese start showing their "initiative".

                    I have already written a lot about this on previous forums. Firstly, the moderation of this entire war was entirely on Witte, although he preferred to act more often through other officials, the military, business, the PRESS. So practically everything that you are now reading about provocations, stupidity, stubbornness, deliberate inadequacy - all these are Witte's narratives, which he carried out through his agents. But for us, the constant remained that Japan firmly did not intend to fight and this decision was made immediately as we, together with France and Germany, with our ultimatum and demonstration of force, forced them to stop aggression in China and get out of Kwantung. Of course, with the support and instigation of England and US bankers. This is precisely why, having already gotten involved in the Far Eastern game, the Russian Empire had to go to the end and seriously prepare for war. In 1896, a decision was made in Japan to order ships for a new fleet in England, and in 1897 these ships were already laid down and were being built very quickly. 12 of the newest armored ships. With the exact date when the last of the ordered ships would end up in Japan - mid-1903. This is the Rubicon when the Russian Empire had to be ready for war in the Far East. Namely, to have a fleet there whose forces were not inferior (at least) to the Japanese, fortified sea fortresses, enough supplies in them and for the land army in Manchuria. And troops from the European part of the country had to be transferred in advance by sea, so as not to end up there with such a handful of troops as Kuropatkin had. And supplies for the war had to be brought in ADVANCE. Because we could not complete the Trans-Siberian Railway and the southern branch of the Circum-Baikal Railway before mid-1905. The Japanese had a two-year head start and a window of opportunity.
                    In order to prevent this and realizing that we had already lost to the Japanese for 2 years at the start (we were only able to lay down battleships for the Pacific Fleet in 1899), and realizing that ships for the Japanese were being built by England, the leading naval power, and therefore both the quality and the pace of construction would be at the highest level and our shipyards would not be able to cope with such a race in shipbuilding, the only way out was to order as many ships as possible from European and American shipyards, those that were free and ready to fulfill our order. So, Cramp (USA) was ready to build for us at least 4 armored ships before the specified milestone, and taking into account the expansion of his shipyard by purchasing another one, he could, in principle, have built a couple more ships. France could then build us two armored ships, and German shipyards (as many as three) could build us excellent cruisers (they did build them, but only three prototypes). The Germans could have built us at least two "Askolds", two "Bogatyrs" (but these cruisers had to be built as armored and with different armament, but their machines were excellent) and FOUR "Noviks" by the deadline. But of these available capabilities, much less was ordered and received.
                    Moreover, the wrong choice of battleship project was made. Instead of the technologically advanced (convenient for fast and inexpensive construction in LARGE SERIES) and equivalent in combat capabilities "Retvizan", the least convenient and difficult to build EXPENSIVE "Tsarevich" was chosen. It was because of the wrong choice of project that our newest battleships were not ready by the beginning of the war and did not end up in Artur. And if "Retvizan", "Tsarevich" and "Bayan", delayed in Suez to the point of hysteria of Witte, had not spat on Witte and had not arrived in Artur on the very eve of the war, we would have had only THREE battleships and TWO armored cruiser-raiders (Peresvet and Pobeda) in the Pacific Fleet. This is how the preparation for war was carried out under the infinitely stupid king, who was huffing and puffing over the birth of an heir, and the evil genius from the Rothschild clan on his grandmother’s side (the halachic line), the swindler Witte.
                    With such leadership, the Russian Empire was DOOMED.
                    But at any stage of this war there was still a chance to at least not lose the war, and at most - to finish Japan by 1907 with its complete occupation and deconstruction. It was simply necessary to make the RIGHT decisions in the current situation. But surprisingly, NOT A SINGLE right decision was made by the leadership during the entire war. All decisions were the worst possible, and some were completely rock bottom (like, for example, the order for the 2nd squadron to go to Vladivostok).
                    I am simply considering a number of probable developments of events at different stages of this tragedy, when it was still possible to correct the situation and emerge from the war not just as a winner, but in the full glory of Victory in a long, difficult and stubborn war in an inconvenient theater of military operations.
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    What prevented the British from blocking the passage of the Russian squadron?

                    Fears that France and Germany would oppose them on our side. After the Anglo-Boer War, England was despised and openly hated in Europe. But England certainly did not want to see such a coalition against itself. The French fleet could join our squadron, and the Germans could, together with Russia, put pressure on Turkey to let our Black Sea battleships through. Therefore, England only demonstrated and threatened, but did not dare to take active action. But in the end, all the other ships of the 2nd squadron and the entire 3rd squadron passed through Suez calmly and without obstacles. The "Borodinites" with the "Oslyabya" would have passed too. They went around Africa specifically for the sake of meeting the "exotic cruisers", 7 of which (Argentine and Chilean armored cruisers) were supposed to strengthen the 2nd squadron. But the whole trouble is that it was a BLUFF and a deception with the aim of sending Rozhdestvensky’s main forces on a roundabout route and not making it in time before Arthur’s fall.
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    Well, to be honest, I don't understand Russia's game of imperialism at all. Why did we need Korea then?

                    Korea for the Japanese is a springboard for capturing Manchuria. The capture of Korea by the Japanese would have severed the communications of our Pacific Fleet, just look where Arthur is, where Vladivostok is and where Korea is. All maneuvers with Korea were to prevent the Japanese from getting there. If Korea had been given to them by treaty, then having sent troops there they would have immediately found themselves on the border with Manchuria from the northeast. And with the capture of Liaodong, on the southeastern border of Manchuria.
                    And we already considered Manchuria ours at that time, we were building a railway for development and mass resettlement of people from the western provinces. Only possession of Manchuria made normal development of our Far East possible for us. It is impossible to live and farm in Siberia north of the Amur, except perhaps Dauria. Read Sharapov's book "After the Victory of the Slavophiles", he describes well the plans of Alexander III and the programs for development of Manchuria, which were drawn up by us.
                    1. 0
                      30 August 2025 08: 50
                      1. Yes, that's what it means to plant your agent in the tsar's entourage in time. James Bond is no match for Witte, 007 is a shallow swimmer.
                      2. Forced Japan to get out of China... but was it worth getting involved in these squabbles at all? Considering that our own role in what was happening in China can hardly be called "international aid"? Did the Russian Empire itself want to grab some of the territories and get some perks at China's expense? I think we shouldn't have done that, become like the European imperialist hyenas.
                      We didn't need these games and should have refrained from them. I consider the integration of northern China to be completely unnecessary and not very realistic.
                      3. France and Germany in one bundle? Was that after the Franco-Prussian War? Let me remind you that Republican France proposed an alliance with Russia precisely because it was afraid of a repeat of it, another defeat at the hands of the Germans. And the French would hardly have quarreled with the British; on the contrary, everything was heading towards an alliance between France and Britain, which had an anti-German orientation. France was a minority co-owner of Suez and was forced to take British interests into account. I don’t know anything about the contempt for the British after the defeat of the Boers; rather, these are just the emotions of those who had no real say in real politics. Politicians proceed from pressing pragmatic interests, and do not follow emotions.

                      4. Port Arthur has long been lost to us, but this did not make the development of the Far East impossible. Economic activity turned out to be quite possible north of the Amur. Our people even live in Yakutia and are doing well, people are coping. It is not easy, but still better than war.
                      5. If Russia had pursued a reasonable and balanced policy, Russia and Japan could well have had good and mutually beneficial relations, from trade to cultural exchange. They got along well with China over time, and could have done the same with the Japanese. It is quite characteristic that of all the countries neighboring Japan, it is the Russians who show the highest percentage of positive attitudes toward the Japanese, despite the difficult history of mutual relations...
                      1. +1
                        30 August 2025 11: 22
                        You judge from the position of today, from the position of lost wars and global confrontations, but you do not understand that the enemies of our fatherland laid the foundation for future defeats precisely then - in the period between the death of Alexander III and the results of the Russian Revolution.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Yes, that's what it means to plant your agent in the Tsar's entourage in time. James Bond is no match for Witte, 007 is a shallow swimmer.

                        007 is an ordinary operative, but a fairy-tale character. And about Witte, it is better to read from Sharapov (who knew him personally, was his "personal enemy" and opponent, thwarted his destructive plans, including extinguishing the flaring civil war during the "first Russian revolution of 1905-1907", was the author of those programs and reforms that were supposed to begin to be implemented in the mid-90s of the 19th century, and which were nevertheless implemented in the USSR during Electrification (GOELRO - his plan), Industrialization, Collectivization (he organized the first collective farm / agricultural cooperative on his estate, organizing the peasants and supplying them with agricultural technology of his own invention - 25 patents), Mechanization (creation of inter-district MTS), reform of the Education System, Health Care, Financial System, thanks to which all of the above became possible). He also substantiated the need joining Manchuria to the Russian Empire - precisely the need to obtain a region suitable for agriculture with a climate familiar to our peasants. Everything above the Amur (and not only) lies on a glacier with a thickness of several hundred to a kilometer + of ice. Like Antarctica, only sprinkled on top with several meters of soil on which there is either Tundra or Taiga (larch whips 20-25 cm at the base directed upward like bamboo ... on an ice floe. You apparently did not live there, so you have no idea why people from the Far East and Eastern Siberia are scattering. And in Primorye there are seasonal cyclones that wash away fertile soil even from specially equipped terraces. This region is not able to feed itself, islands of a more or less acceptable climate in the Minusinsk Valley and similar places are exceptions. And in general, Manchuria was then very sparsely populated. And an ice-free port for farming and even just for normal The basing of military ships was necessary as air. Vladivostok is frozen! Therefore, before the RYaV, the ships of the Vladivostok detachment went to be based in Nagasaki for the winter, so as not to ruin the ships.
                        You don't like war and pacifism itches? But back then it was all simpler - "if not you, then you". Japan was preparing an attack on us - it was building the most advanced fleet and training an army with the help of the best instructors, buying the best weapons systems. They would have perceived the pacifism you proposed as weakness and would have only accelerated and increased the pressure.
                        And the unpreparedness of the Russian Empire in that war was man-made and malicious, and the tsar was DyR@k, and in a clinical performance. I have already shown with many examples that when making the CORRECT decisions during the preparation for the war and during its course, Russia won. Yes, not simply and not very quickly, but it always won, as long as the decisions were CORRECT. And these correct decisions were then obvious to EVERYONE. But a certain Will on behalf of the sovereign all the time pushed through the most disastrous decisions and actions, leaving no chance for the Russian Empire. Study the issue, it is really very instructive.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        We even have people living in Yakutia and nothing, people are coping

                        What kind of people manage there? On everything imported? On northern imports? And at what price and how much does it cost to maintain these settlements in such a climate? And do people live there either as VAZs or under contract, but with the obligatory departure from there to warmer climes as they approach retirement age.
                        Now the Amur Gas and Chemical Plant is being built on the Amur, my brother is a manager above the middle level there, and all his life he has been in the north (Vorkuta, Norilsk, Krasnoyarsk, Urengoy) ... But this is all work. And to live - in the south, closer to Sochi, to warm up. And then, for the normal development of our Pacific possessions, we needed our own agricultural region - Manchuria. Look how the CER branches out from Harbin to the Trans-Siberian Railway. This is to cover our future agricultural lands with railways. Only there could peasants be resettled. And the program of resettlement to Siberia under Stolypin is an echo of that program in a very truncated form. Of course, there was an effect from this program of Stolypin (in fact, the Slavophiles), but from the settlement of Manchuria the effect would have been an order of magnitude, if not two, higher and more complex.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        If Russia had pursued a reasonable and balanced policy, Russia and Japan could well have had good and mutually beneficial relations, from trade to cultural exchange.

                        That is, you propose to buy peace at the price of Shame?... And you don't realize that in that case we would have gotten both War and Shame? We didn't choose War, and not even the Japanese, but England and international bankers chose War for the Russian Empire in the least convenient theater of military operations for us.
                        Read Sharapov's book and find out what the best minds in Russia thought about these topics back then.
                      2. -1
                        30 August 2025 13: 34
                        I myself live in Eastern Siberia (Irkutsk) and I assure you that the local conditions are quite suitable for agricultural activities. So don't tell me fairy tales about the unsuitability of the conditions. I can't say anything about the Far East, I haven't lived there, but I have friends and relatives who say that it is quite possible to live there.

                        For some reason, the Pacific Fleet was maintained in Soviet times. They managed without Port Arthur, and didn't send ships to Nagasaki or Pyongyang. Well, since the sea freezes in winter, there was no need to fear enemy attacks from the sea at that time. As for communications... with the money that was wasted on that war, a second Trans-Siberian Railway could have been built.
                        There is such a good thing as diplomacy. Why did we have to become enemies? Manchuria was not divided? Yes, we lived without it and still live. Oh, couldn't you provide the region with agricultural products? Well, at least there is plenty of fish, other resources. We would have bought what we needed, why trade?
                        Sorry, but starting a war for such purposes is clearly too much.
                        And I doubt that the plan to populate Manchuria with men from Tambov would have worked to the fullest extent.

                        Well, the northern delivery is still cheaper than a local war. Especially since the natural resources of the same Yakutia will cover the costs in the long term.

                        Never mind, people live in Vorkuta permanently. And where is Vorkuta, and where is Khabarovsk and Vladivostok?

                        What a disgrace, what are you talking about? Even 30 years before the events mentioned, Russia and Japan had quite good relations.
                        Well, there was no need to play along with these bankers. They played along and got it in the neck.
                        And I remain of the same opinion - the Russian Empire had no chance of winning that war. So, it should have been avoided. And not to try to build our well-being at someone else's expense, the Manchus, Chinese, Koreans. This is not our way.
                      3. +1
                        30 August 2025 15: 30
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        do not try to build your well-being at someone else's expense, the same Manchus, Chinese, Koreans. This is not our way.

                        Do you know that Mao Zedong asked Stalin to include China in the USSR? And he didn't think it was shameful. And the Manchus didn't think it was bad when we built the CER there either - they had work and the opportunity for profitable trade. And it's the same with Korea - the activity with logging and the plans to create a PMC to cover Korea were not so much for the sake of the timber, but to prevent the Japanese from invading there. They still invaded and ruled Korea until 1945... do you know HOW they are remembered there? And their rule in Kwantung and Manchuria? When they slaughtered the population of entire cities?
                        Do you know where they hid from their killers?
                        In the extraterritorial zone of the CER. Among the Russians.
                        Still haven't gotten it?
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Even 30 years before these events, Russia and Japan had quite good relations.

                        And then Japan invaded China and slaughtered all of Kwantung! Every single one!!
                        And it was this genocide and its further development that the Russian Empire stopped then, having created a coalition with Germany and France for this purpose. And it threw Japan out of China and Korea. Korea was then generally leaning towards a Russian protectorate, but it was necessary to wait for the completion of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway and the branch to Korea. In order to firmly stand on the Far East.
                        Do you find it surprising that the highest official of the Russian Empire turned out to be a spy?
                        Seriously ??
                        And doesn’t Gorbachev in such a role surprise you?
                        And Yeltsin?
                        And Andropov (this guy played a special role in preparing the collapse of the USSR).
                        And Khrushchev??? An old Trotskyist, an English spy, and until 1943, a German one. Doesn't that surprise you?
                        Or is it a SYSTEM \\ ALGORITHM for the destruction of empires and states?
                        In fact, everything is painfully banal and predictable, because it follows the same patterns. But these patterns worked and work.

                        But the Russian Empire could not only avoid defeat, but also, having won, finally rid the region of all the horrors that Japanese militarism brought to it (the Asia-Pacific region), which was not stopped by Russia because of the betrayal of Witte and the Tsar-DyR@k@. Russia could have won this war at any stage of its course, if the right decisions were made. Even after the fall of Arthur. And even after the defeat of the fleet in Tsushima (which was a real wild thing) - simply by starting an offensive at the end of 1905 with Kuropatkin's army, which had received reinforcements. But Russia was robbed of victory at every stage of this war, and at all stages of preparation for it. And every time, because of these strange decisions, orders, instructions, the ears of the Father of the First Russian Revolution, Count Witte of Polusakhalinsky, stuck out.
                        In essence, by not allowing Japan onto the continent, Russia was carrying out a humanitarian mission to save the peoples of the Far East and Southeast Asia from a monstrous nightmare and genocide... of an inhuman order. If you doubt that it was saving from this - ask the Koreans and Chinese about it, they will explain it to you.
                        There was almost no agriculture in Manchuria, but the land and climate were very suitable for the crops we are accustomed to. The northern part is like our central zone, and to the south - like Kuban and Ukraine.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        There is such a good thing as diplomacy.

                        With the Japanese???
                        Without showing force and obvious superiority?
                        Are you sure you are writing/meaning about the Japanese now?
                        Did any of your relatives fight with them?
                        This defeated Japanese is docile and polite. But as long as he believes in his victory or superiority (even if imaginary)... this is a monster of an inhuman order.
                      4. 0
                        31 August 2025 08: 38
                        1. No, I don't know. I know that Mao asked for part of our territory (Kazakhstan), but he was refused.

                        2. Tsarist Russia would not have been able to protect Korea anyway, given its remoteness. And why did Japan start to look to England, and not to Russia, which was much closer? Why did China change its orientation from the USSR to the USA much later? Maybe because we had little to offer these Asians?

                        3. Do not overestimate the importance of the personalities of Gorbachev, Yeltsin and others.
                        They were spies - it's written on water with a pitchfork. And they did not seize power by force or deception. They expressed the collective will of a considerable share of our political elite, which took such a course. Why our powers that be did so is a separate question. But certainly not because they were on the payroll of MI6 or the CIA. Everything is deeper and sadder for us. The prerequisites for something like this have been laid long ago.

                        4. It's hard to believe that the Russians would have succeeded in that war. Yeah, if Kuropatkin... what if his offensive hadn't been too successful? The most combat-ready army needs reserves and accessible mobilization potential. Japan had all of that... The theater of military operations was close to the metropolis, the population was not small. And how many people lived in Russia to the east of the Urals at that time? The Trans-Siberian Railway wasn't finished yet, how could they deliver reinforcements from the European part of the country? How much of their own industrial base in the Far East... was there?

                        5. And who entrusted us with such a mission? Do you really believe that the last Russian emperor and his entourage were guided by such lofty and noble motives? Our aristocracy didn't give a damn about their peasants, they treated them like work animals. Should I remind you about "Bloody Sunday"? What do THESE care about the Koreans and Chinese, they probably also called them "slant-eyed macaques".

                        Alas, it was Russia's defeat that made the Japanese believe in their strength and superiority. Before that, they had been sitting on their butts for centuries and not sticking their heads out. They tried to make forays into Korea, but not always successfully. Well, they also genocided and partially assimilated the half-wild Ainu. And compared to the same Europeans, they are not such monsters. The Japanese only acquired their "monstrosity" in modern times from Western teachers.
                      5. 0
                        31 August 2025 13: 55
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        1. No, I don't know. I know that Mao asked for part of our territory (Kazakhstan), but he was refused.

                        He asked to come to the USSR under Stalin. He asked very much. Stalin refused. And not only him.
                        And Mao's territorial claims appeared later, when he had a falling out with Khrushchev. Mao wanted to subjugate at least all of Southeast Asia, Khrushchev was against it. And when Mao established contact with the USA through his wife (from the Haiwen community) ... for the sake of recognition (before that, the Taiwan government was considered the legitimate authority of China), they demanded that he break with the USSR and prove it with deeds. That's when provocations began on the border, the loudest of which was the provocation on Damansky Island (my uncle took part in those events, on Damansky itself), and then the attack and war against Vietnam (the so-called First Socialist War - that's what they called it in the USA). And you shouldn't blame Khrushchev for this alone (although he is to blame for a lot of things, including this), the Chinese have it in their blood and they completely lack such a quality as empathy. They are simply not capable of this - that is the structure of their psyche.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        2. Tsarist Russia would not have been able to defend Korea anyway, given its remoteness.

                        How far is it? It's just a stone's throw from Primorye. And they were planning a railway line there from the very beginning. Or is it closer to Harbin? You're looking at the map.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        3. Do not overestimate the importance of the personalities of Gorbachev, Yeltsin and others.

                        And what about the personalities of Chubais, Shevardnadze, Yakovlev, Kryuchkov, etc.?
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And why did Japan start to look towards England and not towards Russia, which is much closer?

                        Russia was not close then, the Far East was completely undeveloped, the Russian Empire did not have such a military and merchant fleet as England, and the Suez Canal had just been built then, before that all ships and vessels went around Africa. And England and the USA came to Japan by sea, seemingly from far away (which means there was no military threat), with profitable goods. In addition, military reform in Japan became possible only by the will of the English cabinet and English and American banks. It was decided to make Japan a regional competitor for the Russian Empire. Very inconvenient because of the lack of transport links. But these two predators were going to take advantage of the consequences of the defeat of the Russian Empire. From Japan, almost from scratch, they began to mold a military and naval power - with bank loans, stimulating the military industry, providing specialists, instructors, technology, licenses, building a fleet for it, arming the army.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Why did China change its orientation from the USSR to the USA much later? Maybe because we had little to offer these Asians?

                        China was ready to break off relations with the USSR after Khrushchev seized power and especially after the 20th Congress. But it did not want to be left alone and began to look for a patron. And when it agreed on everything with Kisenger, it became an ally of the USA and one of our worst enemies.
                        For this you can thank Khrushchev, who led everything to this. And not only to this. And Gorbachev and Yeltsin finished his work.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        They were spies - it's written on the water with a pitchfork.

                        This is for you. You shouldn't attribute your ignorance to everyone. Especially not to do it deliberately.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        certainly not because they were in the pay of MI6 or the CIA.

                        They were on their hook, they were agents and they acted according to the plan prescribed to them. Gorbachev was generally recruited in his first years at the university.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The preconditions for something like this have been laid down in our country for a long time.

                        Is it just us?
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        4. It's still hard to believe in the Russians' success in that war. Yeah, if only Kuropatkin...

                        Young man, first study the history of that war. Including the middle/second half of 1905. When we already had overwhelming numerical superiority and our army relied for supplies on the Trans-Siberian Railway and the recently COMPLETED southern branch of the Circum-Baikal Mainline. Mobilization in the Russian Empire was carried out from the very beginning of the war, troops were trained, combat coordination and accumulated in the Irkutsk region awaiting the completion of the southern branch of the KBM. From mid-1905, Kuropatkin could begin active offensive operations. A significant part of our Army consisted of cavalry units - the most maneuverable and convenient for waging maneuver warfare over large areas. The material base and the number of troops gave an overwhelming superiority over the Japanese. Therefore, even after the destruction of the fleet in the Battle of Tsushima, our Army was able to achieve a decisive victory on land and throw the Japanese out of Manchuria and Korea.
                        And if Rozhestvensky had stayed in Cam Ranh and from there kept Japan in a naval blockade from English supplies, received reinforcements and waited for the outcome of the war on land, then by the time the entire Japanese army/armies in China were defeated and destroyed, he would have waited there for both "Slava" and possibly "Pervozvanets" with "Potemkin" and other Black Sea battleships (our victories would have forced Turkey to let the ships through + pressure from Germany, with which we were getting closer and closer during this war). And then the time would have come for the Japanese islands themselves.
                        During this time, it would have been possible to produce new-model shells on new lines and supply them to Rozhdestvensky's squadrons. And the effectiveness of our naval guns would have increased very seriously.
                        but in order to reason about this, you first need to simply Know it.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The most combat-ready army needs reserves and available mobilization potential.

                        We had it in abundance, our Army was at least twice as large as the entire Japanese Army, supplies were established, colossal military supplies had been accumulated in the Irkutsk region in 1,5 years, and now both the mobilized Army itself and everything prepared for the war were at Kuropatkin's complete disposal. The Japanese had all their supplies through Korea on pack animals. The Japanese also had a branch of the CER from Artur and Dalniy to Harbin, but it could have been cut and destroyed by our maneuverable cavalry groups or simply as a result of an offensive that encompassed the entire Japanese group. Read the memoirs of their military leaders of that war - they were in a desperate situation and only Nikolka's refusal to continue fighting brought the Japanese an unexpected victory. The destruction of all Japanese armies lured deep into northern China would bring us a resounding and deserved victory and rehabilitate power for all previous failures.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Was there much of our own industrial base in the Far East?

                        It was just beginning to be created. For the war, the logistics that had been built by that time were enough for us.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        5. And who has entrusted us with such a mission?

                        History. Providence. Call it whatever you like. Besides, the appearance of a new aggressive ambitious predator in the region did not suit either the Russian Empire, or Germany, or France. And who the Japanese are, they demonstrated during that very Sino-Japanese War, when they CUT OUT the entire Kwantung Region TO THE LAST CHINESE. Simply total genocide. And that is how they intended to act and DID act in the future. During the war with China from 1935 to 1945, they destroyed/exterminated 35 million Chinese. Only Chinese. And there were also Koreans, Filipinos, etc., etc., etc. If it were not for Russia's intervention then, all this for China, Korea, and probably other peoples, would have begun in earnest earlier. Look at the facts, and don't daydream.
                        The fact that you are a pacifist and a “unique snowflake” will not protect you from bandits in the alley or from an invasion of foreigners, or from a civil war, if you do not care about your safety, authority, state and national interests.
                        The towers REALLY did not want to fight and tried in every way to avoid war, demonstratively did NOT PREPARE FOR IT, and as a result - 3,5 years of trampling around the "forester's hut", the losses of Russian men on both sides of the front have long since exceeded 2 million, only irretrievable... this is the price of Stupidity, Short-sightedness, Indecision and feigned pacifism.
                        Like ?
                        Enjoy.
                        For you, the SVO has been going on for 3,5 years, for us this war has been going on for over 11 years. Because when those who seized power want to do "like under Nicholas II" ... it can only turn out like this. Some people don't know any other way.
                      6. -1
                        1 September 2025 08: 27
                        Quote: bayard
                        How far is it? It's just a stone's throw from Primorye.


                        What was meant was the distance from the European part of Russia, with its large population and industrial potential.

                        Quote: bayard
                        And what about the personalities of Chubais, Shevardnadze, Yakovlev, Kryuchkov, etc.?


                        Also. This is all the tip of the iceberg. Kryuchkov, by the way, was a member of the State Emergency Committee, so I would exclude him.
                        These gentlemen-comrades had much more mass support from "party members" of a lower level. And they acted not at all because of bribery by foreign intelligence services or threats of blackmail, but for their own reasons, both individual and group, clan-based. The USSR was first reformed and then destroyed because a considerable part of the top nomenklatura considered this to be advantageous for themselves. From simple managers of "public property" they decided to become full-fledged owners, since the real levers of control over the state and the economy were already in these entities. The role of any CIA, MI6, MOSSAD in this process is secondary.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Young man, first study the history of that war. Including the middle/second half of 1905. When we already had overwhelming numerical superiority and our army relied for supplies on the Trans-Siberian Railway and the newly COMPLETED southern branch of the Circum-Baikal Railway.


                        Well, Nakhimov after the battle of Sinop also had reason to think positively about the prospects for the end of the campaign. Did he think that he would soon have to sink his fleet?
                        Sorry, but all your arguments about the impossibility of England's intervention in the Russo-Japanese War cannot be considered compelling. I am sure that England could have stood up for its Japanese "proxies". And in that case, Kuropatkin would have faced 100% defeat. Russia had no allies at the time. Somehow the same French, who allegedly saved the poor Chinese from Japanese atrocities with the Russians, did not lift a finger to help Russia after its failures. Didn't they understand that a Japanese victory would make France's previous efforts useless? Maybe the point is that France did not have excess forces, fearing a new conflict with Germany? Well, and the Germans? They showed back in the Crimean War that there was no point in relying on them in a critical situation. Again, Berlin knew about the Franco-Russian military alliance of anti-German orientation. And some disagreements on the "Balkan question". All this untied the hands of the Anglo-Saxons. England, and perhaps the USA, could have directly sided with Japan. Since weakening Russia was objectively advantageous for these countries, Japan was heavily technologically dependent on them and was not considered a competitor... yet.

                        Quote: bayard
                        Moreover, the appearance of a new aggressive, ambitious predator in the region did not suit either the Russian Empire, Germany, or France.


                        So what's the matter? These "Western partners" could have united with the Russian Empire against Japan and offered a military alliance to Nikolai. But for some reason they didn't.

                        Maybe the bankers had a hand in this? For example, the Rothschild clan? Which had its branches in England, Germany and France? And in the US, the Rothschilds had their henchmen (the Morgans).
                        Apparently these gentlemen bankers were quite happy with the appearance of an aggressive Japan in the region... a dirty guy with big fists for dirty work.

                        As for everything else - more emotions. I am not a pacifist and fully support the SVO. That under Putin our Armed Forces made a considerable leap in development is an axiom for me. One of my cousins ​​is a veteran of the "first Chechen", he told a lot about the state of our army then. So the progress is obvious.

                        For whom - "for you"? Are you a native of the DPR or LPR?

                        Personally, I am not particularly upset by the losses on that side, to be honest. I do not consider the soldiers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to be "Russian men". They do not consider themselves as such. And those who do - surrender to the Russian army at the first opportunity or do everything to avoid being captured by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. However, all this is off-topic.
                      7. 0
                        1 September 2025 12: 57
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        For whom - "for you"? Are you a native of the DPR or LPR?

                        I have been in Donetsk since April 2014. I was born in the Southern Urals. At the age of 9, I moved to Donbass with my family after my father (a miner) transferred me. Reserve officer, formerly an officer in the combat control of an air defense unit. I served in Transcaucasia.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        What was meant was the distance from the European part of Russia, with its large population and industrial potential.

                        After the completion of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway, the CER and the Circum-Baikal Railway, the issue of transport connectivity, military logistics and the transformation of Manchuria into a new center for the development of the Russian Empire were resolved in a working order; this is what everything was started for.
                        Korea was important for us (as a neutral, allied state or protectorate of the Russian Empire to ensure the security of sea routes between the two bases of our future Pacific Fleet - Vladivostok and Port Arthur. This was a very important geostrategic condition. Because the capture of Korea by the Japanese cut our sea communications and created threats of division of the naval forces.
                        And the industrial potential of Manchuria and the Kwantung region would have developed very quickly. At least a dozen mines were already organized and operating along the southern branch of the CER, construction of shipyards and all industrial cooperation for them was planned in Artur and Dalniy, resettlement of peasants from the western regions (land-poor or landless, the so-called "eldest sons" who did not receive land as an inheritance) ensured rapid agricultural prosperity. The program provided for free travel (one carriage per family, with all property, inventory and livestock - the same boxcars), generous lifting allowances and the possibility of credit. All this was implemented during the settlement of Siberia under Stolypin, but this program was drawn up specifically for the settlement of Manchuria. And this is food supply for the region and the army, mobilization potential, potential for the development of industry. Land was allocated free of charge and if after 5 years the entire allotment received was developed, it became property. There were many more people willing to move to Manchuria than to Siberia - the climate is milder, the land is better and sales of products are at hand.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Kryuchkov, by the way, was a member of the State Emergency Committee, so I would exclude him.

                        So he was the main organizer of all the brutality - a loyal and long-time henchman of agent Andropov. And the State Emergency Committee was invented by him, Gorbachev and Co. as a provocation and a pretext for the liquidation of the USSR. I was working in Moscow at the time, I remember a lot of it.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The role of any CIA, MI6, MOSSAD in this process is secondary.

                        Have you read the Dales plan? Read it again, the whole future is written there. And the plan itself was drawn up in MI6.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        all your arguments about the impossibility of England's intervention in the Russo-Japanese War cannot be considered compelling. I am sure that England could have stood up for its Japanese "proxies".

                        And it immediately untied our hands for many things. We knew about the existence of a "defensive alliance" between Japan and England, according to which England promised to enter the war on Japan's side if Japan had to fight with more than one enemy. That is why the Russian Empire refused to create a coalition, but England was also bound by this treaty and could only threaten and plot.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In Berlin they knew about the concluded Franco-Russian military alliance with an anti-German orientation.

                        This was an alaverdi for Germany's behavior during the last Russo-Turkish war. But this alliance was temporary, and times and events changed. This alliance did not prevent the Russian Empire from creating a temporary coalition with France and Germany to stop Japanese aggression and genocide in China.
                        And one should not overestimate the capabilities of England, Grandfleet was strong and had no rivals at sea, but the land army was weak and demonstrated this in the war with the Boers. When it won only as a result of total technical and numerical superiority.
                        And most importantly, you and I have not yet decided from what point to begin calculating the alternative course of events. So let's start with the most difficult and final line - the fleet perished in Arthur and Tsushima, only Kuropatkin's land army remained, the completed southern branch of the KBM and all the reserves accumulated near Irkutsk poured into Manchuria, ensuring an absolute superiority in forces, quality, maneuverability (an abundance of cavalry units and formations). It seems that things could not be worse - the Japanese are complete masters at sea, but on land ... DEFEAT begins. The Japanese are not simply driven out of northeastern China, their communications and escape routes are cut off, supplies are interrupted, they are surrounded and completely exterminated or taken prisoner.
                        Here you have Victory, albeit at the cost of losing the fleet.
                        England
                        What can she do? On land? Undertake a landing operation? The result will be the same as the Japanese - complete defeat. So they definitely won't get involved.
                        As a result, the Russian Empire gets everything it was going to get: Manchuria, Korea, and Kwantung.
                        Are we losing Sakhalin?
                        It's a pity, it was a good place for hard labor, but this is a temporary loss. Because after the victory we will not get involved in any Entente, but on the contrary - we will create a Continental Union with Germany. Because for its trading post in Jindao the Japanese are a clear threat, and Wilhelm has long been persuading us to such an alliance. Together we look at France, intently and questioningly ... and the lady, even if without much enthusiasm, but enters this Union.
                        That's it - the Entente did not take place.
                        And then we begin to build our fleets. Guess for yourself how England feels on the island. And of the possible allies, only the USA.
                        But the USA needs markets for its rapidly growing economy, and England won't let it into its colonies. An alliance against the Continental powers - they won't let it in either. Neither into their colonies nor into their metropolises. This is the dilemma for the USA.
                        But we have no dilemma - we are building a fleet and reforming the army based on the results of the war. Manchuria is developing rapidly, blossoming with gardens and fields, growing with cities and villages, new factories and plants, providing the economy of the Russian Empire with rapid growth.
                        And then, when the US realizes that it would be better for them to join the Continental Union and tear apart the British Empire (as was done after WWII) and get their gesheft... everything becomes simpler.
                        This is, of course, a sketch of the most extreme scenario, when Witte is executed after the defeat in Tsushima.
                        Do you want another option?
                        Witte is arrested and executed for treason after the failure of his scam with the purchase of "exotic cruisers" for Rozhestvensky's squadron, which sent him running around Africa. Right after Rozhestvensky's arrival in Madagascar, Witte is executed - for treason, embezzlement and working for the enemy. And Rozhestvensky, having put the ships in order and having rested after running around Africa and hanging around at the rendezvous point, with the attached forces of the third squadron, moves to Cam Ranh. I have already described the rest above. And this scenario implies the defeat of Japan on the islands and the liquidation of this statehood during the same war. As you can see, it is already much better.
                        But if we consider the option when Alexander III does not die from a “sudden illness”, but continues to thrive, then the anti-British (!) coalition is created even during the beginning of the Anglo-Boer War.
                        In this case, it is enough for Russia to concentrate a strike force on Kushka (which we have been preparing and practicing for a long time), and with the involvement of a contingent of German troops (and they have long and very much wanted to take possession of factories in India) and we present England with an ultimatum - to immediately get out of South Africa and renounce all encroachments or claims. If the aggressive bitch disobeys - the introduction of troops allied to the Boers into India, the rise of national liberation movements, the restoration of the former kingdoms and principalities (a single state never existed there) and the throwing out of the English from India NOW.
                        And these are not my fantasies, these are the words, thoughts and opinion of Alexander-3's comrade, his Brain and the author of all those wonderful programs - Sharapov. This is exactly what Alexander-3 would have done. And under the threat of losing India, England would have left South Africa, losing face in the process. And the coalition against it would have survived and grown into the Orange Republic, glorified by Louis Boussinard.
                        As a result, the alliance treaty between England and Japan would be called into question. For England already has a coalition against itself that is at least equal to it at sea (and rapidly overtaking) and indisputably and infinitely stronger in its land armies. So fight with such.
                        But it happened as it happened. Witte should have been hanged for participating (or leading) in the assassination attempt on the Tsar's Family in Borki (the explosion of a bomb planted under a dining car), but instead he essentially led Russia, led to defeat, revolution and death.
                      8. -1
                        1 September 2025 14: 06
                        Quote: bayard
                        After the completion of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway, the CER and the Circum-Baikal Railway, the issue of transport connectivity, military logistics and the transformation of Manchuria into a new center for the development of the Russian Empire were resolved in a working order; this is what everything was started for.


                        And would they have dared? How much time did such "logistics" take and how much did it all cost? How much effort was required to disrupt it? Several blown up bridges or tunnels - what would have happened to all this "logistics"? Let's take into account that the same Trans-Siberian Railway (and unfinished) was single-track.


                        Have you read the Dales plan? Read it again, the whole future is written there. And the plan itself was drawn up in MI6.


                        No, I haven't. As far as I know, such a "plan" was published exclusively in fiction.
                        We knew about the existence of a "defensive alliance" between Japan and England, according to which England promised to enter the war on Japan's side if Japan had to fight more than one enemy. That is why the Russian Empire refused to create a coalition, but England was also bound by this treaty and could only threaten and plot.


                        You have too high an opinion of the Anglo-Saxons. What prevented the English, if necessary, from changing the terms of the agreement retroactively? Sorry, but any agreement itself is just a piece of paper. Real opportunities and interests rule, not formal restrictions.

                        This was an alaverdi for Germany's behavior during the last Russo-Turkish war. But this alliance was temporary, and times and events changed. This alliance did not prevent the Russian Empire from creating a temporary coalition with France and Germany to stop Japanese aggression and genocide in China.


                        No. This Franco-Russian alliance, initiated by France, by the way, turned out to be strong, and became the core of the future Entente. But the joint removal of the Japanese from China was simply a situational unification.

                        And one should not overestimate the capabilities of England, Grandfleet was strong and had no rivals at sea, but the land army was weak and demonstrated this in the war with the Boers.


                        Yes, the English are not good at fighting themselves. But they often fight with other people's hands. Other people's hands would have been found. In the worst case, they would have used their own natives from the colonies. And the enemy's complete control of sea communications, a naval blockade, would have been very noticeable. Again - financial levers, pressure on the Russian economy, which is quite dependent on the external environment.

                        All the reserves... but were there many of them? Well, the Japanese could have prepared their reserves and their delivery would have been much faster, considering the proximity of the metropolis and the assistance of the British. The position of our opponents would have been better than during the Crimean War. Yes, there is a railway, but the transport "shoulder" is too long, the throughput is low and the probability of sabotage is high. Both the Japanese and the British are great masters of this.

                        And yes... to wage war, as one historical figure noted, three things are needed: "money, money and money". Our opponents (the Anglo-Saxons) were doing better financially. They had "Rothschilds", and we? In order to build the Trans-Siberian Railway, we had to take foreign loans... alas.

                        Well, I won't even comment on the fantasy of how we washed our boots in the Indian Ocean, driving the English out of the colonies. You clearly overestimate the capabilities of the Russian Empire, which was already at that time turning into a second-rate power, in the same league as Austria-Hungary and Italy, which the First World War will clearly prove.
                      9. 0
                        1 September 2025 15: 57
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        You clearly overestimate the capabilities of the Russian Empire, which at that time was already turning into, in essence, a second-rate power, in the same league as Austria-Hungary and Italy,

                        And probably that is why at the first Basel Congress J. Schiff declared that if Russia is not "contained" right now, then in 20 years no one will catch up with it?? Are you even familiar with the subject? The murder of Alexander III (after a whole series of unsuccessful assassination attempts), the bringing to power of the feeble-minded Nika II and the introduction of his agent Witte, a cunning combination with drawing the Russian Empire into the Far Eastern Adventure, the organization of all the prerequisites for an unsuccessful REW, the disruption of any correct decisions and plans to prepare for this war, the intrigues of Witte and all the other agents during it and the prevention of the continuation of the war, when the Russian Army could already attack and win ... all this is that very containment. And the plan for this containment was voiced long before the REW by Yankel Schiff at the first Basel Congress. The materials of this congress were obtained by Russian intelligence and these materials were published at the height of the revolutionary uprising of 3-2, which (the revolution) was also for this very "containment". Read Sharapov's book "After the Victory of the Slavophiles", it is on the Internet and it was written in 1905. And don't fantasize about loans from the West for the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway. Not a penny, not a franc or a mark was taken on credit! Read this from the author of those economic programs, from the author who prepared the financial reform approved by Alexander III and according to which the financing of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway was carried out in test mode. Read from the author, and don't sing from other people's voices. From a participant in those events. Then you will find out where the money for all these programs came from, and why there were no problems with financing them at all. Just as Stalin did not have them during the Industrialization. Because essentially the same programs were being implemented. In their basis and foundation, of course.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        How long did such "logistics" take and how much did it all cost? How much effort was required to disrupt it?

                        Is this the first time you'll hear from me that bridges, tunnels, and other strategic objects are guarded during periods of threat and war? Is this news to you?
                        One track?
                        But by mid-1905, over a million troops were transferred to Baikal along it, with all the supplies for the war. Its (Trans-Siberian) modernization and arrangement of sidings continued. In the future, it was planned to lay a second track, which was much simpler and cheaper to do.
                        The resettlement would have been carried out in exactly the same way as the settlement of Siberia. Only faster and much more willingly, because to better lands and in a better climate. And we were no strangers to developing new lands and territories, which again you can read about in the book of the smartest man of that time. Now the All-Russian Economic Society named after Sharapov bears his name. And I took part in its founding congress, when the book with the republished works of this man was presented.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        What prevented the English from changing the terms of the treaty retroactively if necessary? Sorry, but any treaty itself is just a piece of paper.

                        Yes, and that was what was in the way, because then we could have created a coalition. But they created conditions where we fought in the most inconvenient conditions in a remote theater of operations without the possibility of attracting allies for help.
                        Naval blockade of Russia?
                        Russia is a continental power, in India the English were sitting on a powder keg, envoys from there were constantly coming to Russia with a request to the Russian Tsar to come and liberate them, taking them under his control. England was terribly afraid that we would cross the Hindu Kush. And we had an agreement with them on the delimitation of spheres of influence. Just read Kipling, he served in India at the time, how they were afraid of the arrival of the Russian Army. And the railway to Kushka had already been laid.
                        Regarding the comparison with the Crimean War, our army was even worse then - there was no railway yet, supplies/logistics were very slow and difficult during the muddy season. At the same time, 3/4 of our army had to be kept on our western borders, because Austria mobilized and kept its army at the borders. We didn't have anything even close to that even during the REW.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        This Franco-Russian alliance, initiated by France, by the way, turned out to be strong and became the core of the future Entente.

                        Russia was not particularly interested in this alliance strategically, but it contributed to the split of Europe, and Alexander III wanted to use it to modernize the country and the fleet. He considered it TEMPORARY. His interlocutor and comrade writes about this in his book. For us, an alliance with Germany was much more advantageous and natural - both empires were ruled by German dynasties, relatives, Willy II was the nephew of Alexander III. But the Germans had to be endured first AND NOT ALLOWED France to get closer to England. And then they were at enmity. These European canaries could have been drawn into an anti-British alliance even during the Anglo-Boer War, on the fresh steam of joint actions against Japan and during the suppression of the "Boxer Rebellion". Organized, by the way, by the British, which was already known then. Wilhelm especially wanted such an alliance, he was furious that he could not help the Boers (Nicky was as always a Rag) and regretted that he did not have a fleet for this. Then he began to build a fleet for real. France ... is a Republic with an elected government, and it was literally seething, collecting help for the Boers, volunteers were sent there, reports came from there ... It was a very convenient time to create such a coalition. And even if the Boers were not saved, then the coalition could really be formed. Alexander III could have done this, especially in cooperation with Sharapov's group. How exactly he could have acted, or rather - how he would have acted, Sharapov wrote in his book in 3, analyzing all the events that had just happened and Witte's role in them.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In extreme cases, they used their own natives from the colonies.

                        Just don't make me laugh with this. Against the Russian Army, hardened in the Turkestan campaigns and the magnificent German Army??
                        The English would have flown out of India like a cork. But we had been preparing for such a campaign for a long time, the routes were explored, maps were drawn up, contacts with local princes were established.
                        Moreover, if we had already had such an alliance by the beginning of the Russian-American War, even with the same unsuccessful start and balance of power for us, the joint pressure of Russia and Germany on Turkey would have forced it to let our Black Sea ships through the straits. Which would have sharply strengthened the 2nd squadron, making it self-sufficient. The Turks already despised the English and gravitated towards the Germans... This was also very useful for us then.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Again - financial levers, pressure on the Russian economy, which is quite dependent on the external environment.

                        From whom? From England?? Their banks and trade missions would have flown out of the Russian Empire in the blink of an eye. We had loans from France then, and we had not taken any new ones, nor were we going to. There was a surplus in the budget, the economy was developing rapidly, and the money was already ours. Before Witte came to power. And if this spy had been hanged immediately after the crash of the Tsar's train in Borki, the History of Russia would have gone along completely different main rails - into a Bright Future. And the rate of economic growth could have rivaled the rate of development of the USSR under Stalin. This is what Russia's enemies were afraid of. This is what they "held back". Because in fair competition they would obviously lose.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        reserves... but were there many of them? Well, the Japanese could have prepared their reserves and their delivery would have been much faster, considering the proximity of the metropolis and the assistance of the British.

                        They couldn't. They didn't have any reserves. And it takes a long time to train new recruits, especially in Japan. The Japanese gave it their all back then, and they took on more credits than Everest, given their economy. Continuing the war even at the previous pace would have been death-defying, and their commanders write about this in their memoirs. They believe that a miracle saved them. And their commanders committed hara-kiri to avoid their own losses.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        To wage war, as one historical figure noted, three things are needed: "money, money, and money." Our opponents (the Anglo-Saxons) were doing better financially.

                        Things were not bad with us either, before Witte arrived.
                        In any CORRECT course of events, Russia would win, and Japan would either lose sovereignty or crawl away with reparations on the condition of complete demilitarization. The disarmament of Japan, and complete, was inevitable. Such a state could not be left at all. And this was confirmed by the course of subsequent History.
                      10. -1
                        2 September 2025 08: 53
                        I don't give a damn about all these "congresses". The criterion of truth is practice. And practice has shown the weakness of the Russian Empire, including military weakness. In WWI they could still fight the Austrians successfully, but not the Germans.

                        Transib? Yes, one track. As for security... the other side was no pushover either, they knew a thing or two about sabotage. Again, the corruption factor. What, there was no corruption in the Russian Empire? There were no "unreliable elements"? So - alas...

                        Coalition? Who would join us in an alliance? No one. Including because all "Western partners" objectively benefited from Russia's weakening. Even the supposedly allied French. Well, who in Europe was seriously upset by the Russian Empire's defeat in the Russo-Japanese War? Maybe the Germans or the Austrians?

                        Is a naval blockade ineffective against Russia? Are you sure? That we had no maritime trade? Didn't buy anything, were we autarkic? Why would English have become fashionable among our aristocracy then? Was it because our "blue princes" had close economic ties with England? Let me remind you once again about the death of Emperor Paul, when he decided to limit trade relations with the English.

                        Yes, yes, "the Russian threat to the civilized world." A great cover for their dirty deeds and interference in other people's affairs.

                        Regarding the Franco-Russian alliance. None of our emperors' wishes came true. Germany was not stopped, the alliance between Britain and France became real, Russia became their "junior partner", a helper who began to serve the interests of his senior comrades.
                        You can think whatever you want, but there is no guarantee that you will get what you intended.

                        Comparison with the Crimean War is not in favor of Russia under Nicholas II. Then the defeat could be explained by the fact that a whole coalition fought against us. But under Nicholas II we were unable to cope with Japan alone. Degradation, however, of military power.

                        And where did the German army come from? What, Wilhelm, did he at least provide military-technical assistance to Russia? The weakening of Tsarist Russia was only to his advantage.
                        As for the native troops, the British used the same Gurkhas in the Crimean War and even in the war against Argentina for the Falklands. Quite combat-ready natives. And our army back then, at the beginning of the 20th century, was not that good. Technically, they were lagging behind, they lacked modern weapons, and the soldiers were illiterate. The Japanese were better with the latter, as well as with motivation. Pardon me, but for a Russian soldier, the hills of Manchuria, the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles are dark matters and not particularly interesting.

                        The English would not have flown out of our financial system. They were too deeply rooted. Of the largest Russian banks of that time, only the Russo-Asian Bank can be considered national. The rest are under the control of foreign capital, including English. If you don't know, but in the world of finance, even now Great Britain is a superpower. And back then... it was expensive even for the Romanovs to conflict with the Rothschilds. Even Napoleon Bonaparte treated Rothschild with complete respect. After all, this first billionaire in the world financed Napoleon's campaigns and expeditions.
                        "People die for metal," as a popular song went back then. And most of this "metal" was in England before the First World War.

                        Never mind, they helped the Japanese with loans and with preparing reserves. The financial cabal had invested heavily in this war and did not want to lose their investments. Everything can be solved. They could have sent "instructors" to begin with, then "volunteers" from the dominions, then...

                        Of course, we had very few losses, right? If only they had transferred another million by rail... "women will give birth to new ones". But there could have been problems with the money to continue. Russia was the weak link in world capitalism and suffered greatly from the world crisis known as the "Depression". (Not to be confused with the later "Great Depression".) The first revolution was just around the corner. And revolutions don't just happen out of nowhere, foreign grants and "agents of influence" are not enough...

                        These are all alternative fantasies, nothing more. The then "collective West" (or rather the real Western elite, those same bankers) made Japan its "proxy" against Russia. And the Japanese would have been used to the fullest extent, supporting it to the utmost. So the probability of Japan's defeat is zero point, fuck it.
                        Russia's defeat is more than likely. Especially since there were plenty of people in Russia itself who were preparing this defeat, who were interested in it.

                        What does the inevitable and complete disarmament of Japan mean? Is this news from the Bright Future? Japan, in fact, preserved its Armed Forces even after its defeat in World War II. And I suspect that this state will continue to exist regardless of other people's wishes. Let's proceed from reality, not fantasies, even very pleasant ones.
                      11. 0
                        2 September 2025 11: 15
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        I don't give a damn about all these "congresses".

                        This is exactly the reaction that Congress needed.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The criterion of truth is practice. And practice has shown the weakness of the Russian Empire, including military weakness.

                        When the army of lions is headed by a Ram... Then it is an army of a Ram with all the consequences. The period that you are pedaling is the agony of the Romanov dynasty, its complete and final degeneration. It was not Russia that was weak, Nikolka was weak in his head. And Russia had at that time the Second most powerful fleet in the world. True, it was divided into different theaters of military operations, but that is already geography and geopolitics. The Russian Empire became weak only under Nikolka. And thanks to Nikolka.
                        About WWI... only such a "genius" could ruin the unmobilized regular Army in the first months, and then move to Strategic Defense to create and arm a new one. Everything was like during the RYaV - he screwed up even what seemed impossible. This is not the quality of the country, the state and the Army, this is the quality of the tsar. Although Witte was no longer in Russia. Such a "genius" cannot even be trusted with a collective farm, he will ruin and squander it.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Transib? Yes, one track. As for security... the other side was no pushover either, they knew a thing or two about sabotage.

                        Have you heard anything about high-profile and effective sabotage on the Trans-Siberian Railway during the entire period of the RYaV? No? So why are you fantasizing about incredible abilities?
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        What, there was no corruption in the Russian Empire? There were no "unreliable elements"?

                        As everywhere.
                        And revolutionary unrest began precisely as a result of resounding defeats, and especially after the fall of Arthur and Tsushima.
                        "Bloody Sunday"? Who is its author?
                        And how did it happen that Putilov (and not only he) paid his workers for strikes and wandering around the streets even more than for a work shift? And Witte compensated his expenses from the treasury? This is again about the role of personality in history. There was no personality at the head of the empire. But there were plenty of other personalities. The tsar removed all the smart ones from the court. He listened to others. And then he would have fits and fall into depression.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Coalition? Who would join us in an alliance? No one. Including because all "Western partners" objectively benefited from Russia's weakening.

                        Not everyone. Wilhelm dreamed of such a union and tried to persuade Alexander III. And Willy needed Russia to be strong... but turned to the East... Which is what Russia was going to do. Without weakening in the West.
                        And France needed the Russian Empire to be strong in order to keep Germany from a new campaign. Without Russia, France is in complete trouble and is finished, with no chance.
                        But when Tsar-DyR@k lost the war, and with such a bang... Russia was showered with SUCH contempt. And then they talked to him only as a Rag.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Well, who in Europe was seriously upset by the Russian Empire's defeat in the Russo-Japanese War? Maybe the Germans or the Austrians?

                        The Germans were really upset by this defeat - their positions in the Jindao trading post were in a very vulnerable position. But they were even more upset by the entry of the Russian Empire into the Entente. This made Russia a direct enemy of Germany and ruined everything completely. Tsar-Tryaka ruined EVERYTHING he touched.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Naval blockade is ineffective against Russia? Are you sure?

                        Ineffective. In time of war - ineffective. I'm sure.
                        For trade with Europe, we had the Baltic and Black Seas open. And also the entire land border. After the loss of Arthur and the defeat of the fleet at Tsushima, we did not fight. But for land operations, we had no restrictions. England had no reason to interfere at that stage. And it could not hinder us. Except for diplomatic intrigues.
                        If we are talking about an earlier period, if DyR@k@ had not been on the throne, or at least Witte had been hanged... So what kind of blockade are we talking about? And that war would most likely not have happened because of Japan's weakness at sea. If we had built a fleet and had a one and a half to twofold superiority in capital ships. Without Witte, Russia would have been strong, smart and dynamic. Its foreign policy would have been active and enterprising (there WERE people at court then), and its domestic policy would have been smart and positive for the population and business. Rapid economic growth created more and more jobs in industry, where the surplus landless rural population was drawn in, the development of Manchuria and Siberia relieved internal tensions in the western regions (where most of the rebellion took place). There was only one way to prevent a war with Japan - to have a stronger fleet in Arthur than Japan by mid-1903, AS WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. The deadline for such readiness was postponed to mid-1905 at Witte's insistence "for the sake of saving money." If you don't like that war so much, then it shouldn't have happened. At least according to the scenario that we know. Witte made all the changes to our scenario.
                        And according to the plans drawn up for Alexander III and approved by him, first the Trans-Siberian Railway should be built, then simultaneously the CER and the Trans-Turkestan Railway with an eastern branch to the Trans-Siberian Railway. The settlement of Manchuria and Southern Siberia (along the Trans-Siberian Railway) and then access to the warm seas. By that time a full-fledged Fleet should be built. These plans scared the Windsors and Rothschilds. A second center of development in the Far East made Russia indestructible. Especially according to the leaks about our upcoming reforms. To disrupt and prevent this, assassination attempts on the Tsar began, brainstorming sessions on "plans to contain Russia", and everything that we know from our history.
                        And it turned out that it was enough to put DyR@k@ on the throne, give him the "right" adviser and he himself would ruin everything. And that's what happened. You paint a picture of collapse, which was corrected only by the Bolsheviks (Stalin, Dzerzhinsky) and the "Slavophiles" who entered into a secret alliance with them (this organization had other names, for example, the Sacred Squad) saved Russia. But already under a different brand. But the Slavophiles implemented their development programs and social reforms only under the Bolsheviks. When in 1955 the "Trotskyists" led by Khrushchev seized power in the USSR ... everything again went into decline and degradation.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Regarding the Franco-Russian alliance. None of our emperors' wishes came true. Germany was not stopped, the alliance between Britain and France became real, Russia became their "junior partner", a helper

                        Niki was a Rag and DyR@k0m, he lost and ruined everything he took on, which made him panic and fall into depression... Well, how can you not push people like that around? Nature had a full rest on the Romanov dynasty... After a pretty decent tsar and statesman. And all because of the damned "Danish blood" of Queen Victoria's niece.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And where does the German army come from?

                        Not "from where", but where - under Kushka, for a joint campaign to India. They could have done it themselves (with the beginning of the Anglo-Boer War) from a joint campaign the alliance grows stronger. That's when, against the backdrop of aggression against the Boers, it was necessary to create an anti-British coalition. And Willie only had to give a hint or a hint, he himself would have been the initiator.
                        And everything would sparkle with completely different colors.
                        The Rothschilds then believed that we had already essentially formed such a thing - the Continental Coalition. And they did everything they could to crush it in the bud. Under Witte it was not difficult. Without Witte it was almost impossible. Because the alternative party advocated such a union and Germany wanted it.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The English would not have flown out of our financial system. They were too deeply entrenched.

                        Not too much. Especially after the start of the Financial Reform (which Witte stopped). All foreign banks were planned to be squeezed out of Russia in various ways. From economic ones - by a low interest rate of the State Bank and its divisions, direct investments of the state in large infrastructure projects that would saturate the economy with Free Liquidity, well, and simply by administrative pressure or a direct ban on activity, as soon as domestic State Banks will be able to replace the foreigners who have arrived.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Even the Romanovs found it difficult to conflict with the Rothschilds.

                        This is if you are up to your eyeballs in debt. But if you finance your own economy and conduct balanced foreign trade, you won't even be interested in their name.
                      12. -1
                        2 September 2025 14: 01
                        Who cared what the "congresses" wanted?

                        Really? And in 1905 the Russian Empire was stronger than in 1914? And how did this manifest itself? In the "second most powerful fleet"? This fleet did not show itself very well in the war with Japan... what was its rating?
                        No, I don’t believe it, Russian power was clearly overestimated.

                        There was simply no need for sabotage on the Trans-Siberian Railway, that's all.

                        Well, yes, the Tsar was to blame for everything. The boyars and generals were good, but the Tsar was no good. He, one must assume, also bore personal responsibility for the insufficient number of machine guns, long-range guns and the like? Let me remind you that at the beginning of WWI, Nikolai was not the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. And he was solely to blame that full mobilization in Russia took so long?

                        Revolutionary ferment - not like everywhere else! Otherwise, revolutions would be everywhere. And the defeat in the RYaV was not so important... on the contrary, some revolutionaries perceived the defeat as a positive.
                        That on "Bloody Sunday" loyal subjects showed up to demand more successful military actions from Nicholas or were there some other demands?
                        And it certainly wasn't handouts from Putilov that made people go out to protest. That's too superficial an explanation.
                        Such provocations, actions of "foreign agents" - like a lit match. A match can cause an explosion if there is already a barrel of gunpowder, mass social discontent. If there is no "gunpowder" - burn the whole box, nothing will happen.

                        And the Baltic and the Black Sea could also be blocked. The Britons would have come to an agreement with the Turks, and they would have managed the Baltic on their own. Rozhdestvensky's squadron was gone, the ships were at the bottom of the Tsushima Strait or were captured.

                        If the ships had been built... there's no harm in dreaming. An expensive pleasure, especially if built abroad. Our own capacities were not enough... where was the same "Varyag" built?
                        Russia was weak and underdeveloped. And we didn't build ships as fast as other powers.
                        Again, if you invest more in the fleet, less will go to the ground forces. And there, too, it is far from good.

                        Again, everyone blames Nikolka. Was Nikolai I also a moron? We just need to understand - for the Europeans, we are not their own and we will not be. The Crimean War is an example of this. We are strangers to them. And real, strong alliances, trusting relationships, mutual assistance from the West are simply an illusion.

                        Our paths with the Germans began to diverge back in the Crimean War. So - no joint campaigns. We are on different sides. Then and now.
                        And Germany objectively wanted and wants our weakening.

                        If Witte hadn't stopped it, they would have stopped it in other ways. Including direct military defeat. Control over the financial system and currency emission is the sweetest piece for the financial oligarchy. After the Provisional Government came to power, this prize was very close. The damned Bolsheviks messed up the cards. But in the post-Soviet period... we are still in financial semi-slavery to the West, although the current regime is trying to break free... but it doesn't have the strength yet.
                        In Germany, everything worked out. Yes, it took two wars, but the Germans have full-fledged financial slavery, they even lost their Deutschmark.

                        So even if Peter the Great and Ivan the Terrible were in the same bottle in Nikolay's place, the financial cabal would have lost.

                        It was impossible to pursue such a policy. There was no way without external loans, as well as without "investments". There was always a shortage of own funds. Considering that 80% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia lived on a subsistence economy - it could not be otherwise.
                      13. 0
                        2 September 2025 15: 30
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Who cared what the "congresses" wanted?

                        It seems you didn't understand what Congress we're talking about.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        ? And in 1905 the Russian Empire was stronger than in 1914?

                        These were different theaters of operations.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In the "second most powerful fleet"?

                        Officially - yes. By the number of ships of the main classes.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        This fleet didn't do very well in the war with Japan... what was its rating?

                        None. They received their fleet on the very eve of the war - the last ships literally a few days before it (the armored cruisers "Nishin" and "Kasuga").
                        The Russian fleet was broken into pieces. Witte's machinations, like many other things he had done, prevented the parts from being united. Our fleet in the Russian Navy always fought in the overwhelming minority. That was how everything was organized. And the garrison of the Kwantung fortified region was tiny. And instead of setting up bases and building fortresses, they built a commercial port. They didn't even deepen the fairways in the Arthur.
                        This was possible ONLY under SUCH a king.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        No, I don’t believe it, Russian power was clearly overestimated.

                        She was deliberately weakened and poorly managed.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        There was simply no need for sabotage on the Trans-Siberian Railway, that's all.

                        And again it is not true, such attempts were made and prevented. But the Trans-Siberian Railway was very well guarded.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Well, yes, the tsar was to blame for everything. The boyars and generals were good, but the tsar was no good.

                        The boyars were different, but he did not understand their types, so he brought idiots and swindlers closer. He did not tolerate the smart ones and was afraid ... not understanding "what they were saying".
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        He, one must assume, also bore personal responsibility for the insufficient number of machine guns, long-range weapons, and so on?

                        laughing You don't even know THIS?? His catchphrase: "These machine guns will ruin me on cartridges!!"? laughing Haven't you really heard?
                        And he has a lot of that. Yes
                        For example, our old cast iron shells were simply slag for the new conditions - lightened (short), thick-walled, with a very small explosive charge. To provide the Navy with shells of the new type, a French line was purchased, a trial batch was made, tested, the shells turned out to be VERY good. But they were more expensive than the previous ones.
                        And do you know WHAT this wretched man responded to the Admiralty’s demands to launch them into production?
                        "Do you want to ruin me with these shells? Fight with the old ones!!" Yes That's what he said. And having the opportunity to arm the fleet with shells better than the Japanese, our sailors had to fight with such dross that any success in a battle with the Japanese fleet was simply impossible.
                        And so in everything. Yes
                        Want another example? Not about the navy, but about smokeless powder, which the world's most advanced armies were just beginning to switch to.
                        To produce smokeless powder, chemically purified cellulose is needed. Domestic chemists have developed a technology and a complete process and even production lines for the production of nitric acid-purified cellulose from hemp. Which can grow even in Siberia, on absolutely any soil, the most unsuitable for other crops, while gradually making this soil fertile and suitable for other crops. At the same time, it grows quickly and has a simply monstrous yield compared to cotton. So, we had everything ready for the production of smokeless powder from domestic cellulose, pilot batches showed excellent quality and characteristics, the military was pleased, the crop was familiar to our farmers, because we were its main producer for the export of hemp (yarn for ropes and coarse fabrics). And of course it was much cheaper than cotton.
                        Do you know what the idiot responded to the production (of industrial equipment and production lines for the production of smokeless powder from domestic cellulose) that was ready to be launched into series production? smile
                        Well, of course. fellow
                        Let's just do it like in France. Started buying cotton and expanding its cultivation in the Volga region and Central Asia. Of course, to the detriment of other crops. And yes - domestic cotton cost the treasury even more than imported cotton. Remember the joke about domestic doctors who won an international competition by filling a tooth through a patient's anus?
                        It . bully
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Let me remind you that at the beginning of WWI, Nikolai was not the Supreme Commander. And was he solely to blame for the fact that full mobilization in Russia took so long?

                        Do you know how much time it took us? And why more than in Germany or France?
                        Only because of the DISTANCES and the less developed railways. Reservists had to be gathered at assembly points and then distributed among units for subsequent training. And it was precisely this gathering and delivery that took us more time because of the SIZE of the state. Germany had the most developed railway network in Europe. Therefore, where the Germans needed only two weeks, we needed up to a month and a half. Everything else was at the same pace as the Germans.
                        But !!
                        In the Russian Army, when mobilizing units and formations from peacetime regime, they were deployed according to the "triple" principle. That is, on the basis of a division, a corps of three divisions was deployed, each division consisted of THREE brigades and each brigade of the former division was deployed into a division, the brigade commander became a division commander, the regiments of his brigade were deployed into brigades, battalions into regiments, companies into battalions and so on, being staffed with reserve officers and reservists who had arrived (who had previously served as reservists) and new recruits. And when Nikolka threw the regular army into the offensive in East Prussia and Austria ... and destroyed the cream of the Army and its regular staff there ... there was simply nothing to deploy reserve units on ... We lacked a month for full deployment, which any reasonable tsar would have simply waited out, fortunately the Germans were not attacking us. And then, in the missing month, our army would have naturally tripled its numbers at least. But DyR@40k, who should have been able to jump on a stick and wave a twig ... sent an unmobilized army with a regular core of officers ... "to save Paris".
                        He gave them these words of guidance.
                        Well, you know the result. Having destroyed the Cadre Army and almost collapsing the front in 1915, Nikolka nevertheless gave the order to go into strategic defense for TWO YEARS. A lot of time was needed to mobilize, train and conduct combat coordination of a new Army of sufficient numbers for war and victory.
                        Doesn't this remind you of anything?
                        From the current reality?
                        Right?
                      14. 0
                        2 September 2025 16: 29
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Revolutionary ferment - not like everywhere else! Otherwise, revolutions would be everywhere.

                        They weren't needed everywhere. They weren't paid for everywhere.
                        Not all revolutions were prepared with such diligence and creativity.
                        Do you remember who our Yeast of the Revolution is?
                        And without good financing they certainly won’t get going.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And the defeat in the RYAV was not so important...

                        On the contrary, it was a wonderful occasion. There was something for non-Russian agitators to shout about in "kvass patriotism".
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Some revolutionaries took the defeat as a positive.

                        fellow ALL . Yes
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        That on "Bloody Sunday" loyal subjects showed up to demand more successful military actions from Nicholas or were there some other demands?

                        What do you know about Pop Gapon? After all, it was he who gathered them all there. Yes He incited the workers of St. Petersburg to go to Senate Square “to the Tsar” to be shot.
                        And in the crowd of workers there were already armed provocateurs. Yes And it was they who opened fire on the police during the crush on the bridge. Yes And even after this, Gapon led his already crazed crowd, encouraging them with shouts of “The police and boyars won’t let us see the Tsar!” lol He kept shouting. Although he himself was a spy for the Security Department. Yes But he was a Double Agent. bully And then there was an exit to the EMPTY Winter Palace, provocations, a breakthrough of the cordon and... FIRE AND DEFEAT.
                        I once spoke with an old granny whose father died on Senate Square. How she hated Nikolai... how indignant she was when she learned that the Russian Orthodox Church had made him a saint!! That's how the revolution began with creativity.
                        Immediately after the execution and dispersal of the crowd, British agents changed Gapon's clothes, shaved him and took him to Switzerland... But apparently they were stingy with the reward and after several years he secretly returned to the Russian Empire and, since he "knew too much", was hanged by the MI6 agents who had previously supervised him in one of the empty dachas near St. Petersburg.
                        You need to know such stories. And not to wax lyrical about the "turbulence of the masses". You are also going to call the "Revolution of Dignity" of 2014 a result of the people's will or some kind of discontent. Tell me how much they paid per day on the Maidan? And how much did trained fighters from martial arts schools get? One of my acquaintances, the president of a federation of one of the types of martial arts, took part there. After all, I have lived through two "revolutions" / coups and two collapses of statehood and have witnessed a lot. And I also remember and know well how it was in Moscow in 1991. I worked there then, and not just anywhere. So don't tell me bookish heresy, I know all this from practice. I recommended a book to you, and you are stubborn. Why? Heresy is tastier? Or is there some special interest in heresy?
                        And believe me, the one who prepared the matches, also had a torch in stock, and he had looked at the powder depot in advance. And he had laid the powder path to it in advance. It simply cannot be otherwise - it is an algorithm.
                        Quote: Illanatol

                        The Baltic and Black Seas can also be blocked.

                        and we don't need it any further, we traded grain with Europe. And we transported what we needed from Europe. Or by rail. We didn't play around with oil then. Although we definitely exported Baku crude oil and kerosene. But that was done by foreigners.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Rozhdestvensky's squadron was no longer there, the ships were at the bottom of the Tsushima Strait or captured.

                        Well, why grieve in vain - hang Witte and give the go-ahead to Kuropatkin. And don't recall the hero of the "Scythian war", he was a hero for a year and a half for this cause.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        If only ships were built... there's no harm in dreaming.

                        It is harmful to harm. To build the wrong thing, the wrong way, and to delay funding. To spend millions from the shipbuilding budget on a ballerina - that is a Sin.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        An expensive pleasure, especially if built abroad.

                        About a third cheaper than at our own shipyards.
                        But they will build it quickly and on time.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Our own capacities were not sufficient...

                        That's the whole point - to develop our own capacities and load them to capacity, so that the slipways don't sit idle. New shipyards, slipways, slipways, docks to build, after all, we didn't just need ships for the Pacific Fleet, we only have old stuff in the Baltic... And Nikolka didn't lay down new ships after the launch of the "Borodinets". Remember Putin in Komsomolsk-on-Amur about combat aircraft on the eve of the war at the aircraft manufacturing plant?
                        "We've had enough, think for yourselves what to produce, maybe saucepans. Of course, we'll leave a small order, but only a very small one." And then, oops - non-war suddenly happened. And there were no extra planes or pilots in the Little Army... we had to persuade the fired workers back again, train new ones... You know, like in the army joke - we dig a hole before lunch, fill it in after lunch." Stability...
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        where was the same "Varyag" built?

                        In Philadelphia at the Cramp shipyard. Cramp wanted and could build us FOUR battleships, but we ordered ONE battleship and ONE ARMORED DECK cruiser.
                        And in Germany they could have built at least 8 wonderful cruisers for us. According to three projects. But they built THREE, and even disgraced themselves by stealing documentation from the Schichau company. And again - Witte's agent stole the documents, because Witte did not want to pay for the documentation, but demanded to give it back...
                        Did you break the fool? smile
                        Were you saving the treasury? stop No.
                        But to disgrace Russia in front of a potential natural ally. Yes bully
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And we didn’t build ships as quickly as other powers.

                        Well, having gained experience in serial construction of the overly complex "Borodinets", the last of them - "Slava" was built in the same time as at the best English shipyards. A bad beginning is a bad one, the Russians learn quickly. It's just that ships need to be built constantly and in large series of identical ships. And our pace at the best shipyards will be the envy of them. If they had built not "Borodinets", but "Retvizanets", which are technically simpler and more convenient for building a large series, they would have built them on time and there would have been a squadron in Artur that they would not have dared to raise their tails at. And Sharapov had the money for this - "in the nightstand".
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Again, if you invest more in the fleet, less will go to the ground forces. And there, too, it is far from good.

                        But Stalin had enough money for both the Navy and the Army.
                        For this, production capacities and competences are needed. And in a sovereign state (Empire!) there will always be money for a good and Necessary Cause. Stalin always had it. The guy was very smart and knew the Theory of Money well.
                      15. 0
                        3 September 2025 14: 01
                        Yeah, all it takes for a revolution is "yeast". Pardon me, but what did Ilyich write about a "revolutionary situation"?
                        Even if you collect tons of money and go to Switzerland, for example, you won’t be able to start a revolution there, no matter how hard you try.

                        As if the "non-Russian agitators" had no other topics. The workers were more interested in them.

                        Are you putting the 1905 revolution on the same level as the Ukrainian Maidan? Well, in Ukraine they would only be happy with such a comparison. Who are you rooting for, citizen?

                        It doesn't matter who Gapon was in life. What's more important is why the people went to the royal palace, what they wanted, and how the royal government reacted to such an initiative.

                        I see. There were no cargo shipments across the Baltic and Black Seas. And there were no orders from foreign firms, including English ones. Who cares about all sorts of blockades and sanctions... in an alternative reality.

                        Yeah, we need to build shipyards, factories... who's arguing? Of course we do. But where do we get the money? The treasury isn't made of rubber, and domestic capital has lost big on the domestic market, since foreign capital has been buying up Russian enterprises. And how many German or English enterprises has Russian capital bought up? And why did that happen?
                        Again, where to get skilled labor? In cities - less than 15% of the total population, in agriculture there are no surplus workers, everyone is busy.
                        There is no money, few workers. How will we finance development? laughing

                        Cheaper... but you can't pay foreigners for construction with paper rubles, like you would with your own. You need currency or gold. And you can't print that yourself.
                        And by doing so, you acknowledge the backwardness and lack of competitiveness of the domestic industry. Otherwise, why would domestic products be more expensive than foreign ones?

                        It is possible to build cheaper, but the combat qualities may not be very good. And the battleships were already becoming obsolete, the "Dreadnought" was on the way. Soon this name, "fearless", will become a household word. Russia will not be ahead of the rest of the world in building such ships, however, for Russia they will be devourers of banknotes, simply useless in the First World War.

                        No, Stalin didn't have enough money, not for the army, not for the navy, by and large. Strict austerity of everything... fighters had to be built from plywood, there wasn't enough aluminum. Okay, the people were such then that they toiled at the machine tool not only for a salary, sometimes in a half-starved state.
                        Well, Stalin's breakthrough, the mobilization economy is a topic for a separate conversation, and has no direct relation to the Russian Revolution.
                      16. 0
                        3 September 2025 16: 18
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Yeah, all it takes for a revolution is some yeast.

                        Young man (without age), I wrote to you about the yeast of the revolution, if you don’t know who I’m talking about, that’s your problem. We had 1905 million of these yeast in 7. According to the population census. After 12 years, there were already about 8 million.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        and what did Ilyich write about the "revolutionary situation"?

                        About the state and quality of the then government. It really and actually "couldn't". And the people didn't want it the old way. A revolutionary situation is a Crisis of Power. It simply didn't fit.
                        And those who could and were fit for purpose were squeezed out of power and decision-making.
                        I recommended you a book, it also talks about how the smartest people of their time saw the solution to these contradictions. Without changing formations, but with the solution to all the accumulated problems. It even talks about the separation of church from state and the election of priests (like the Old Believers) and bishops by parishes. So that even priests would correspond. Because this has accumulated (then, as it does now).

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Even if you collect tons of money and go to Switzerland, for example, you won’t be able to start a revolution there, no matter how hard you try.

                        Bring a million x0xL0v there, pay them and they will make any revolution for you. Even a sexual one.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        As if the "non-Russian agitators" had no other topics.

                        They were paid, they worked. Everything was fair. They certainly didn't care about the consequences.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Do you put the 1905 revolution on the same level as the Ukrainian Maidan?

                        What difference does it make, all revolutions were carried out according to the same patterns. For money from outside, with the saddling of existing conflicts and contradictions. In their deepening. And most importantly, shouts, noise, songs to the accompaniment of an accordion (or rock bands), free drinks and payment for the riot. And then - promises of impunity for robbery, murder, pogroms of estates, manors, police stations, hunting for policemen, catching and putting the police special forces on their knees so that they repent under the guns. All ONE AND THE SAME.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Who are you drowning for, citizen?

                        Well, if I have been in Russian Spring since March 2014, in Donetsk and on the “Peacemaker” website almost since its foundation, think for yourself.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        I don’t care who Gapon was in life.

                        Young Man, Knowledge is Power. Foolishness is Vice. Choose the first.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        What is more important is why the people went to the royal palace, what they wanted and how the royal government reacted to such an initiative.

                        Have you ever thought about it yourself? The Tsar was not in the capital, he was in Tsarskoe Selo with his family. In the city, Witte was also the chief police officer, for whom Gapon was IN SERVICE. An informant. A provocateur. A regular. But at the same time a double agent. Revolutionaries then actively and proactively became informants for the police for the convenience of "fighting the regime."
                        From Gapon’s subsequent interview abroad (from memory):
                        - You knew that the crowd you were leading contained armed people.
                        - Of course I knew.
                        - What would happen if the king came out to you, say, onto the balcony of the palace?
                        - They would have killed. In one minute. One second.
                        And this is an agent and informant of the Police, through whom the authorities tried to control the labor movement.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        and how the tsarist government reacted to such an initiative.

                        Tried to keep it under control. They didn't have permission to march to Senate Square. Maybe they didn't have permission at all. When they blocked traffic on the bridge, a scuffle broke out, shooting started from the crowd of workers (provocateurs were shooting, several policemen were wounded and killed). The approach to the palace was blocked by the military, not allowing (and this was after the shooting and the first murders). And when the crowd broke through the police cordon and rushed to the palace (and it was organized in such a way that they were constantly pushing from behind and could simply crush a bunch of people, like during the coronation), fire was opened. Shots were also fired in response.
                        The deed was done - "the Tsar shed the Blood of the People."
                        And it doesn't matter that the Tsar wasn't even in the city and didn't know what was happening and didn't give any orders. Not in his defense, but for the sake of historical truth. He was simply a feeble-minded, weak-willed henpecked husband.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        I see. There were no cargo transportations across the Baltic and Black Seas.

                        What kind of heresy is this?
                        We dominated the Black Sea, the Black Sea Fleet was strong enough, if the English fleet attempted to pass through the straits, the approaches to the Bosphorus would have been littered with mines, and the Black Sea Fleet would have fired at the British ships approaching the mouth of the Bosphorus through the strait. Everything was worked out. They would not have been allowed into the Black Sea.
                        The same in the Baltic - an attempt by the English to enter there would have been met not only by the Baltic Fleet, but the Danish Straits would have been filled with mines. If they hadn't made it in time, the approaches to the Gulf of Finland would have been closed with minefields. Even in WWI, the English didn't pass through the Danish Straits. And the Germans - through the minefields at the entrance to the Gulf of Finland.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And there were no orders from foreign companies, including English ones.

                        They would have made do with German and French ones, delivered by rail and via inland seas. Any acute shortages would have been purchased through intermediaries, such as optical sights and rangefinders for the ships of the 2nd squadron already during the Russian Navy.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Yeah, we need to build shipyards, factories... well, who's arguing? Of course we need to. But where do we get the money?

                        Everything was in the plans, there was money for it in the treasury, and so was “Sharapov’s nightstand”.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Domestic capital lost out completely on the domestic market, since foreign capital was buying up Russian enterprises.

                        Are we lying again?
                        Even under Alexander II, foreigners were attracted to build enterprises in Russia by setting prohibitive duties. They came and BUILT. Most of all - Germans. During WWI, all these enterprises were either arrested/nationalized, or changed their owners to citizens of the Republic of Ingushetia. German business lost a lot then and during the Brest Peace Treaty demanded compensation. And received it.
                        So they didn't buy up our enterprises, but built their own. Because they already knew how, they arrived with knowledge, experience, equipment and specialists. They also built and developed their own capital. The Morozov manufactories alone were worth something. Or the Putilov factories. And there were plenty of others. Industrialization was just beginning then and because of the quality of management by the stupid tsar... often crookedly and insufficiently effectively. But the economy grew, the country developed.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And how many German or English enterprises were bought up by Russian capital?

                        All. The Germans were still under the Tsar, the rest were Bolsheviks.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Again, where to get skilled labor?

                        Cooking. Right at the factories and plants. They knew how to do that back then. Or do you think that's something unheard of? When my mother (a kindergarten teacher) came to the plant with zero skills, she was sharpening parts after just a couple of weeks. For ICBMs. And she gained her skills very quickly. And she was even among the leaders.
                        Read Sharapov's book, all the answers are there. And about this too - where to get workers for new factories. And practice both then (on the eve of the RYaV) and during Stalin's Industrialization confirmed that a Russian person learns VERY quickly.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        , there are no extra workers in agriculture, everyone is busy.

                        STUPIDITY. In the villages of the western provinces (and central ones) there was always a surplus of workers. The so-called "eldest sons". Because the land was not divided among the heirs, the youngest son remained with the parents, who inherited. All the rest sought happiness on the side - they went to work as farm laborers, to the cities in search of work, even to become robbers ... or to develop new lands, where land was given out for free.
                      17. -1
                        4 September 2025 08: 31
                        1. A hint at Jews? Well, there were quite a few Jews in some European countries too. But the political system was stable.
                        Not all Jews were revolutionaries. And not all revolutionaries were Jews. What a mess in your head, though. All the troubles are from the "Jewish Masons", supposedly... the next ones will be the reptilians from Nebiru?

                        No, a revolutionary situation is not limited to a crisis of power. Read the classics.

                        About knowledge... some people are unable to see the forest for the trees.

                        It is impossible to organize any revolutions in Switzerland. The people there are quite happy. And the "sexual revolution" is not a revolution at all.

                        You can pay as much as you want to any agitators, but it will be money down the drain if the ideas that the agitators promote are not relevant to the majority of the socially active population.

                        Once again... that Gapon was a provocateur has long been known. The question is, why did people fall for his provocation? If the people were happy with their lives, no one would follow Gapon except a dozen idiots.
                        This is in your rather perverted picture of the world, all the "gapons", or Gorbachev and Yeltsin are causing troubles. And the fact that such personalities were mega-popular in their time, that crowds were ready to carry them in their arms, you do not want to notice or deliberately ignore. Because it is simply inconvenient, does not fit.

                        Knowledge is a good thing, but understanding is higher. And you don't understand that "an idea becomes a force only when it takes hold of the masses." So why did exactly these ideas take hold of the masses in a particular period?

                        Like, the English couldn't arrange a naval blockade for us? Are you sure? Let's say the entrances and exits of these seas could be blocked with minefields. And then? And the rest of the sea-ocean - under the control of the Britons and those who would be in solidarity with the Britons.

                        Yes, yes, diversification of supplies. Perhaps, the rise in prices in such a scenario was inevitable. And the treasury is not made of rubber, external financial sources would have been cut off.
                        And, let me remind you about the role of those same bankers. Where are the guarantees that the English, French and German branches of the Rothschild clan (and their henchmen) will not be in solidarity?

                        The Bolsheviks actually carried out nationalization. And it was not about enterprises located on Russian territory (sometimes originally Russian), but about enterprises in European countries, in the same France, England, Germany.
                        Foreign capital squeezed out domestic capital in Russia, could Russian capital do the same in European countries? That's the point.

                        And ours bought them up too. And foreigners built them themselves... but the question is, what happened to the profit from these enterprises? In whose interests was it distributed? Well, yes, of course, the foreign bourgeoisie thought first of all about Russian interests... so I believed it. Just like the Volkswagen company, creating enterprises in Mexico, thought about the urgent needs of Mexicans, yeah.
                        The Russian Federation is a country of peripheral capitalism and a cash cow for more developed capitalist countries.

                        Examples from the Soviet period are not very suitable. And a low-literate peasant will not be able to obtain a really high qualification in such a short time. He will master the simplest work operations, nothing more. Again, this peasant needs to exist.

                        In agriculture of the level of development that existed in Russia at that time (subsistence farming, most village families did not produce any marketable goods at all) there was no surplus of labor by definition. There was never unemployment in the village, remember that. There was enough work for everyone and always. Yes, there was less work in the winter and in order to feed themselves, people practiced folk crafts. Yes, some went to the city in the winter for temporary work, but it is impossible to support industry on the labor of such seasonal workers.

                        And the fact remains: by the end of the Russian Empire, the urban population was only 15% of the total. Just ask in what century (century, Karl!) England exceeded the urbanization limit of 15%! And France, Germany...
                        But the city dwellers are not only workers, the proletariat. There are also civil servants, traders, intelligentsia, etc., etc.
                      18. +1
                        4 September 2025 12: 56
                        You, young man, have "isms" in your head, that's why you think in a stereotyped way. That's why at the present moment such "apologists of class struggle" have no way in or out. You need to look more broadly, both on the time scale, and on the essence of things, and on the motivation of a healthy, educated and well-intentioned mind.
                        It is difficult. It requires knowledge and analysis. But Knowledge is primary.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        . All troubles are from the "Jewish Masons", supposedly... the next ones will be the reptilians from Nebiru?

                        Don't forget to put on your tinfoil hat.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        No, a revolutionary situation is not limited to a crisis of power. Read the classics.

                        The classics also need to be understood.
                        And not every classic is worthy of attention.
                        And crisis situations for the success of the revolution are usually properly planned and organized.
                        Refusal or delay of overtime payments - what is not a reason for discontent? And here are agitators nearby, they will help to develop. The war was initially planned and organized as a failure for Russia - what is not a reason? Or for the Black Sea sailors, who REALLY do not want to go to war from the cozy Black Sea to Tsushima ... how can you not start a riot because of bad meat, purchased by a slow or thieving quartermaster? YES, PAY the quartermaster to buy rotten meat - here you have a mutiny on the ship, here you have a reason for a film "of all times and peoples". All this is the technology of color revolutions.
                        In any society there are always contradictions and internal conflicts, and if you skillfully pick at them and use them as a pretext...
                        Trotsky's "Red Guard" was hired from criminals released by the Provisional Government. With money from J. Schiff. All the so-called "revolutionary sailors" were not only lazy with propaganda and idleness in the bases, but also with rubles printed in Germany (and the bills were quite large), cocaine and alcohol. When the massacre was going on in Petrograd and Sevastopol, everyone was high on cocaine. Like the Maidan hundreds and other jumpers, with whom all drug treatment centers were overflowing immediately after the Maidan. But they simply "as usual" went to Kyiv to make some money on paid booze. In Russia in 1917, everything was exactly the same - drugs, alcohol and a huge amount of money for booze. And there was a reason - everyone was tired of the war.
                        When a lumpen is PAID MONEY for discontent, he "grows wings". This has happened during all revolutions. It's just that later historians and journalists beautifully and romantically... rewrote it.
                        In 1905, workers were PAID for strikes. More than they earned for a work shift.
                        The proletariat is not the "most advanced class" as propaganda used to say, but the most convenient TOOL of ANY REVOLUTION at that historical period. And also (as always) students and other city lunatics. For some it was a word of propaganda, for others money for the riot, for others a drunken stupor and cocaine, for others the opportunity to rob under the cover of noise. The latter were ALWAYS the most active.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Let's say the entrances and exits from these seas could be blocked with minefields. And then?

                        And then we build a fleet, defeat the Japanese and go to India together with the Germans. England itself is nearby, its army is weak, by 1914 our combined fleet with Germany is much stronger than the English one. Even without taking into account France, which no one will let into an alliance with England.
                        Once again - a continental union was possible, desirable and extremely useful at that time. But an alternative course of history was possible only under two conditions - Witte was hanged by the decision of the Tribunal for organizing/assisting/failing to prevent an assassination attempt on the royal family (or at least sending this guy to hard labor), preventing the feeble-minded Nika from coming to power. Alexander III did not see him as an heir, did not prepare him for such power, and did not particularly involve him in state affairs. It is clear that he did not really want to, but he certainly did not plan to die for another 3 years.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Yes, yes, diversification of supplies. Perhaps the rise in prices was inevitable in such a situation.

                        What price increase? On tea from British India? We traded with Europe. The blockade of the Russian Empire by the English alone would be a declaration of trade war on all of Europe. No matter how hard they tried with their fleet, they would only have aggravated Anglophobia in Europe. Especially right after the Anglo-Boer War. Willie would have simply initially offered our support for their trading post in Jindao and a joint campaign in India if England kicked up a fuss.
                        If the Rothschilds had kicked up a fuss, their Russian Empire would have been blown out with all its banks and investments. We just needed a pretext for this. Financing our enemy for a war with us and a revolutionary movement in the Russian Empire is a sufficient pretext.

                        The population growth in the Russian Empire was not just large - on average, there were 5,5 children per Russian woman. In the countryside, the growth was greater and only weak medicine and because of this, high infant mortality did not allow showing much higher figures. In the western provinces, there was a problem with land-poor peasants and the "problem of eldest sons". This is a sociological study by the Ministry of Agriculture, the comrade (deputy) minister of which at that time (mid-90s of the 19th century) was Sharapov. He wrote about the work of his ministry and his research. Describing his conversation with the tsar about the prospects for future Industrialization and where to get workers for this. This was when the program for the rapid construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway without loans was discussed, organizing all production for this in Russia. Read the recommended literature, you will know and understand the history of your country better. If this country is yours, of course.
                        The fact that Russian industrialists did not open their enterprises in Europe was especially funny. We were going to expand our production in Manchuria and Korea (in the latter more for strategic stability), and this is also in Sharapov's book.
                        The Bolsheviks in Russia/USSR acquired a "human face" only because Slavophiles joined their ranks. Everything human, healthy and professional came from them. The All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) was an extremely marginal party before 1917, little known and of little authority. But it included healthy and conscientious people - Stalin, Voroshilov (both members of the 2nd Congress of the RSDLP), Dzerzhinsky. They saved Russia.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        A low-literate peasant will not be able to obtain a truly high qualification in such a short time.

                        Practice before the revolution and Soviet Industrialization showed that IT CAN. Qualification. And it becomes high in the process. As historical experience has shown, a Russian person always learns quickly and quickly masters new work skills for him. This is from personal experience and observations.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In Russia (subsistence farming, the majority of rural families did not produce any marketable goods at all) there was no surplus of labor by definition.

                        How would you know?
                        All the personnel for Industrialization before and after the revolution were provided by the village. Because the overwhelming majority of the population was concentrated there and there was the greatest increase in this population. In addition, rural youth always aspired to the city. Especially for a good job.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Just ask in what century (century, Karl!) England exceeded the urbanization limit of 15%! And France, Germany...

                        How much agricultural land is there in these countries in terms of population density? And in England there was a "policy of enclosure", when peasants were simply driven from their lands, made into vagabonds, and then for vagrancy they were shackled and taken as slaves to Argentina and Brazil. And sold for 2-4 times cheaper than blacks. Haven't you heard? About the fate of the "surplus Irish (and not only) population"? And others were taken to the colonies. In shackles. To the same Australia and New Zealand.
                        The Russian Empire was late with Industrialization, but at the same time had everything necessary for quick compensation/elimination of this lag. All that was left was to apply competent planning and Financial Reform. Which was planned, but the Bolsheviks had already done.
                        You don't like the Bolsheviks?
                        In 10 years, they brought a country destroyed by the Civil War into the Second World Economy?
                        or do you want to say that SUCH people are deprived of talents?
                        Knowledge is power .
                        Stubbornness is a Vice.
                      19. -1
                        4 September 2025 14: 16
                        It is worth reading and agreeing with the classics who have proven their views in practice. Lenin proved his rightness with such "practice" that even a century later people remember him. And on your part - empty fantasies, "if onlys and ifs".

                        "If there is a reason, a pretext will be found." Reasons are important, not pretexts. Yes, there are dissatisfied people everywhere, but there needs to be a sufficient number of dissatisfied people, and seriously dissatisfied people, and here "agents of influence" alone are clearly not enough.

                        And I advise you to remember: "color revolutions" are not revolutions at all! Armed coups, showdowns in the elite, intrigues of foreign intelligence services, anything but real revolutions. Because they do not change anything in the socio-economic structure of society and the political system. One ruling group replaces another, as in the same Ukraine in 2014, but in principle - nothing changes? The same ideology of "Banderism" in Ukraine did not appear in 2014 and no "revolution" took place there. To put up a Maidan and the revolution of 1905 is to bring grist to the mill of the Banderists.

                        Empty dreamers. No one would stand up for the Russian Empire. Everyone would be happy about its problems and weakening. As now. Even despite some of their own economic losses from the break in relations.

                        In the USSR, they first solved the problem of illiteracy, and only then did they start industrialization. In the Russian Empire, no one really wanted to fight illiteracy, moreover, there was a "circular about cooks' children". That government did not really need the literacy of workers, rather the opposite.

                        I heard, I read. But why was all this necessary? Precisely for urbanization and the implementation of the "industrial revolution". That is why they have overtaken us so much in development.

                        It is you who don't like the Bolsheviks, however. They are revolutionaries, and how revolutions are organized, in your opinion, you yourself have described. Bankers and Jewish Masons as the main factor in the world revolutionary movement. The only thing missing is a classic of the genre - the German spy Lenin-Blanquer in a sealed train car.

                        You decide for yourself who you like more. Sometimes you dream of the brilliant prospects of Tsarist Russia, if those "non-Russian agitators", scoundrels like you, had not clipped its wings, sometimes you praise the achievements of those who came to power as a result of the efforts of those "non-Russian agitators". Who would Stalin have been if there had been no Lenin and his "guard"?
                        That's the same thing.
                      20. 0
                        4 September 2025 17: 33
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        It is worth reading and agreeing with the classics who have proven their views in practice. Lenin proved his rightness with such "practice" that even a century later people remember.

                        With Lenin, okay, who hasn't read him. Like Marx and his "Capital", only if you limit yourself to just that, you'll be like a horse in harness and with blinkers on your eyes. But you're claiming something more, right?
                        And it is much more useful to read Stalin.
                        For it was he who built the state that we remember as the USSR. Lenin only proclaimed it. And he died soon after, seriously ill. And the Bolsheviks drove the occupiers from their land for several more years. Especially in the Far East. And as Comrade Stalin said: "Lenin's main merit is that he created a party that, at the most difficult moment for Russia, when the government in the country was lying in the mud, raised this government and reassembled the shattered fragments."
                        And this power was taken and handed over to the Bolsheviks (it was not the Bolsheviks who took it! Lenin had no idea that the seizure of power would happen that day, and had heard nothing about the preparations - he was hiding in Razliv, and then in a safe house) by officers and generals of the Russian General Staff, and the October Revolution was led by none other than the Chief of Counterintelligence of the Petrograd Special Military District, General Potapov. The headquarters of this Revolution was the Counterintelligence building, which was on the embankment, where the "Aurora" was moored. Stalin and Dzerzhinsky were there to coordinate. No one else from the top of the Bolsheviks was privy to what was coming. Lenin was informed that the Coup was already happening with the removal of the Provisionals from power, and having escaped from security, he arrived at Smolny already in the midst of events "to lead the revolution." And the post office, telephone, telegraph, banks, bridges and other key points in the city were captured by the well-prepared and trained special forces of the General Staff, in whose detachments there were trusted representatives from the combat group of Stalin and Dzerzhinsky.
                        And do you remember the very first "Lenin's decree"?
                        About the world"?
                        Do you know who brought it to Lenin for signature? And convinced him of its necessity? A group of General Staff generals headed by General Bonch-Bruyevich.
                        Do you think I heard this story from Fursov or read it from Mukhin? And from them too, but much earlier from the descendants of those who had something to do with those events. And with whom I studied at a military university. And there were resonant names there. Not to mention that I was friends with General Borodin's youngest grandson in my early childhood, and our grandfathers were neighbors. And from Fursov, Mukhin and others later.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And I advise you to remember: "color revolutions" are not revolutions at all! Armed coups, showdowns in the elite, machinations of foreign intelligence services, anything but real revolutions.

                        Young Man (and again, regardless of age), the word "revolution" is FOREIGN, just like the word "communism". And translated from Vulgar Latin (French), it means exactly this - COUP d'état.
                        "Revolt" - reverse, revolution.
                        The word "communism" means ONLY - "communal power" or "communal sweetness", "communal system". For "commune" is a COMMUNITY. That is why the economy in our cities and towns is communal (communal).
                        There was a very funny incident when a group of Narodnaya Volya revolutionaries from Russia came to K. Marx with a request to "teach us communism". He looked at them as if they had fallen from the moon and replied: "You came from Russia, you have rural/village communities preserved there, not like in Europe. This is communism. Develop your rural communities, bring literacy and a system to managing the communal economy, and there you have communism. And in the cities, where workers in factories and plants are often first-generation workers and remember the COMMUNITY, organize TRADE UNIONS in the style, image and likeness of village communities for the collective defense of their interests. Help them, teach them, provide legal support in litigation." This is communism. In Europe, where there are no communities left, to make changes, a break will have to be made from above. But in your country, reforms can be carried out from below."
                        And the Narodnaya Volya members went to villages and towns as school teachers. Yes
                        And this is despite how Marx hated Russians. And how Engels...
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        One ruling group replaces another, as in Ukraine in 2014, but in principle, nothing changes?

                        Young man! Don't talk nonsense. It's already unbearably painful. Especially about "nothing has changed". You WERE NOT THERE.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        To stage a Maidan and the 1905 revolution is to pour grist on the mill of the Bandar-logs.

                        Unlike the 1905 rebellion, which was extinguished and suppressed, the coup on the Maidan was a complete success for them.
                        You can of course romanticize the French pronunciation of the word COUP, but even the Bolsheviks for about 10 years after it still called the October Revolution a coup. And then (for the sake of romance) they switched to French.
                        But the October Revolution is truly special, before it no one had proclaimed the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. It allowed not only to declassify the ruling classes, but also to completely cleanse and renew the ruling elites - creating them anew. Also crookedly and with a lot of trash, well, as circumstances allowed.
                        Quote: Illanatol

                        Empty dreamers. No one would stand up for the Russian Empire. Everyone would be glad to see its problems and weakening.

                        Even now, no one would stand up for a weak Russia. But before Nika No. 2, it was by no means weak. And according to the Tsar's plans, it was supposed to become even stronger. And if the murder had not happened, he would have had enough life to bring the Russian Empire to the planned results. And to choose and prepare a successor. And so ... well, it's like putting Medvedev on the "throne" and forgetting about it. And even that would probably have turned out better.
                      21. 0
                        4 September 2025 18: 37
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In the USSR, they first solved the problem of illiteracy, and only then began industrialization.

                        In the USSR they also took up electrification, not only illiteracy. They let the spiders in a jar gnaw at each other, as officials and statesmen to discredit themselves, and then, having previously agreed through their agents with American business and the cabinet, they sent Trotsky to hell, adopted Stalin's Program and began to build an Industrial State of the most advanced level. And everything worked out. And they prepared generations of people of a new level of consciousness. For it was the Slavophiles who were engaged in Education in the USSR. And military, and social reforms. It was not the "commissars in dusty helmets" who wrote the programs and plans. They grabbed regions and positions for themselves to feed (like their successors in 1992) and lived to their heart's content. But the Slavophiles - PLOWED.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        In the Russian Empire, no one really wanted to fight illiteracy.

                        Well, yes, he didn't want it so much that in every remote village parochial schools appeared. My grandfather graduated from one. Yes, primary education, but that was the base from which they started. Smart students were taken to the admissions committee at the gymnasiums and if the candidates passed the selection, they received boarding, uniform, maintenance and even a stipend from the state. And in the USSR they even made films about this, they weren't lying.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Moreover, there was a "circular about cooks' children."

                        There was. But this is about the "painful issue" - the illegitimate children of our elite. They tried to separate them from the children of the elite "so that morals would not deteriorate". But in fact, cooks' and soldiers' children even reached the rank of full generals. The same General Alekseev is a soldier's son. And General Kornilov too.
                        There was a lot of bad stuff in the empire, at least public corporal punishment was abolished, otherwise it was complete madness.
                        I am not defending the former elites, I am writing about the so-called "third way", which was then - at the fork in History in the Russian Empire. But it was not implemented. Therefore, the best people of the empire, already after the February 1917 Revolution and at the moment of the empire's collapse, placed their bets on the Bolsheviks - the only party that declared the construction of a sovereign state (all the others were open compradors), helped this smallest and most unpromising party seize power, created the Red Army for it (not to be confused with Trotsky's KG, who only had bandits-mercenaries), led it, won the Civil War, drove out the invaders, preserved Foreign Intelligence, and then went to work as archive workers, libraries, teachers of military academies and military schools, to secondary and tertiary government positions, to the Education System, became children's writers and wrote simply brilliant children's books in verse, beautifully illustrated. They prepared new generations for their country. They were given the RIGHT upbringing and education, the right worldview and character building. And we bow low to them for that.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        It's you who don't like the Bolsheviks, however.

                        Are you confusing Bolsheviks with communists?
                        Stalin was a Bolshevik.
                        And Trotsky was a communist. And he became one after the February Revolution because he was invited by Sverdlov to join the party.
                        So don't confuse Stalin with Sverdlov and Trotsky, they had their own community/commune. Separate from the Bolsheviks. Remember the peasant's question to Chapaev? The Russian peasants understood the difference, but Chapaev thought about it.
                        The Bolsheviks gave land to the peasants, and the communists came to them with armed food detachments.
                        It was my great-uncle who consulted the creators of the film and told these stories about his friend. He replaced him as division commander.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Bankers and Jewish Masons as the main factor in the world revolutionary movement.

                        Yes Yes . Yes
                        But since the October Revolution had a different goal, it can safely be called the October Counter-Revolution. And although Schiff financed the Bolsheviks through the Sverdlov brothers (the younger one was with him in New York, and the middle one created and headed the Soviets ... the older one was already a French general and controlled Kolchak's army in Siberia from the French General Staff). Didn't they know this either?
                        But it was not they who prepared and carried out the October Revolution/Counter-Revolution. They did not even know anything about its preparation. But then, together with Lenin, yes - they saddled the Revolution and galloped into the Civil War.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The only thing missing is a classic of the genre - the German spy Lenin-Blanquer in a sealed train car.

                        Well, first of all - Lenin-Blank. This man's mother's maiden name was Blank.
                        And yes - there was a sealed carriage and Lenin did not hide it. And how else could he get from Switzerland through the fronts to Russia? And Parvus was there. Only Lenin took advantage of him and sent him away, having achieved his goal. And if Lenin is an "idol and classic" for you, then for me the authority is Stalin. Because he did not destroy, but created. VERY SUCCESSFULLY.
                        And thanks to Lenin for creating the preconditions for the emergence of such a person in power.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        You will decide for yourself who you like more.

                        I've made up my mind.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        You dream of the brilliant prospects of tsarist Russia,

                        I am writing about the fact that Russia had a way to avoid falling into revolution and the chaos of the Civil War.
                        And I am writing (it doesn't matter to you, whoever needs to read it) about this because about half a year ago I was approached with a request to help "formulate a new ideology". One official (of a fairly high rank) contacted me, but he didn't like what I proposed to him and we even had a falling out. Immediately after him, one ... deputy and public figure contacted me and we continued. He explained that "they want it to be effective, attractive, but without communism". To this I suggested simply abandoning all "isms" in the image of the future of the country, because they tear society apart. But I suggested the term Solidarity Society. Which Sharapov preached (his name is still banned), which Stalin BUILT (he called the Soviet Society of the Future - Solidarity Society). That is why International Workers' Solidarity Day was the main holiday in the USSR. There is a wonderful Soviet cartoon called "Solidarity". Watch it, maybe you will like it... Although you are so lazy - after so much time of communication you still haven't looked at Sharapov's Book. And it is definitely worth it. And I think that the stupidity and heresies you have picked up would have diminished.
                        You've probably heard of Lenin's work "On Criticism of the Slavophiles". But you haven't read it. Especially not the original source. So read it. Believe me, everything we are rightfully proud of from our glorious past in the USSR is the merit of the Slavophiles as part of the Bolshevik Party. And of Stalin, who gave them the opportunity to implement their plans.
                        Watch the wonderful film by Zakhar Prilepin "Time - Forward" - a historiography of Stalin. He made it after our conversation, the film included a lot of what we talked about, and what facts he dug up about his exile ... I didn't even know about some of them. And the bas-reliefs of Stalin in the Moscow Metro were also returned after that conversation. And even about the return of Stalingrad to its former name. Now that's the Way.
                        And when a blind man spits bile... that is Yama.
                        I wish you the Right Path.
                        All the best.
                      22. 0
                        3 September 2025 17: 23
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Cheaper... but you can't pay foreigners for construction with paper rubles, like you would with your own. You need currency or gold. And you can't print that yourself.

                        Young Man, read the recommended Book, it is on the Internet.
                        Paper money turns into Gold Currency in the following way - exporters (merchants) are given export credit in paper rubles (for purchasing/producing goods in Russia) at a preferential interest rate, but with the condition of repaying it with gold currency from the proceeds (gold was used for international trade at that time, less often silver), here you have the alchemy of gold mining from paper money. And the gold reserve of the Empire was large, silver - Very Large, platinum - very large. There was money for urgent orders and payments, then it would be replenished from export trade.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        thereby you admit the backwardness and non-competitiveness of the domestic industry. Otherwise, why did our own turn out to be more expensive than foreign ones?

                        The backwardness from the leading shipbuilding powers, it was there and there was an intention to overcome this backwardness, because there was a need. Shipyards were modernized, new ones were built and planned for construction, including in the Far East. Licenses were bought abroad or custom-made development of steam engines, the most advanced boilers were ordered, ships were ordered as prototypes for construction at their shipyards. After the completion of the construction of the Borodinets series (5 identical battleships), St. Petersburg shipyards and enterprises received very good experience, so much so that the last ship of the series was built in less than 3 years - as in the best English shipyards. But the design of this project was quite complex to implement - many curved surfaces, many towers (2 main guns, 6 water towers). So Russian workers and shipbuilders in general already then proved that they learn quickly. The main thing was to move on to building ships in large series of identical ships. This speeds up and reduces the cost of the construction cycle, facilitates the work of cooperative enterprises, facilitates the operation and training of personnel, simplifies the transfer of officers and sailors from ship to ship. In order to learn how to build ships, you need to BUILD them. The Germans did not know how either and learned at about the same time. And we know what ships they were building by WWI. It would have been the same with us if the stupid tsar had not feverishly ordered and then stopped orders. After the launch of the "Borodinets" new battleships were not laid down, although the war was just around the corner, and we have no new battleships in the Baltic at all - they are all sent to the Pacific Fleet. Let me remind you that the two "pioneers" of the shipyard were laid down WITHOUT a government order and financing, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE, seeing that the Tsar was "slowing down" with his brain again - the war had begun, and he was not itching. And the slipways should not stand idle. Never. So that the specialists do not scatter, so that the shipbuilding industry is kept in good shape. The weirdo simply did not understand this. It was beyond his capabilities.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The Dreadnought was approaching.

                        Appeared in 1906, made a lot of noise, but that was AFTER THE ROARS. And then everyone was building battleships and ours were at the level of their contemporaries. But there were FEW of them, and they were armed with worthless shells.
                        And it was little because there was money, but they didn't want to build it. The little tsar didn't want machine guns - "ruin on cartridges", he didn't want modern shells - "ruin", shells for Kuropatkin's land army - "it's a pity, let him fight like that".
                        Whose voice did this automaton sing?
                        That is why I have said and continue to say from the very beginning - with Witte at court and Nika II on the throne, the Russian Empire was DOOMED. It was not the horse that was bad - the rider was worthless. You wouldn't trust such a person even with a donkey.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Russia will not be ahead of the rest of the world in building such ships

                        Russian battleships (WWI) were the fastest at that time, had not the longest-range artillery and the heaviest 12" shells. But they were built for the Baltic and the Black Sea. Therefore, seaworthiness was sacrificed for the capabilities of the artillery.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        No, Stalin didn’t have enough money, neither for the army nor for the navy,

                        Who told you such nonsense?
                        There was a lack of competence, production skills, and design experience. But there was enough money for everything.
                        Only they weren't dropped from helicopters. They were poured in as direct investments into development.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Strict austerity of everything...

                        ?
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The fighters had to be built from plywood, there was not enough aluminum.

                        There was a shortage of rolled aluminum sheet because its production was just beginning. We imported it from the USA during the war. About 60%-70% of such sheet was imported under Lend-Lease. But there were many people who didn't have enough aluminum. The British, for example. Their famous "Mosquito" was also made of wood, they were made in furniture factories.
                        In the USSR, before and at the beginning of the war, aluminum was used for bomber fuselages. And this was not due to lack of money, but because industry lagged behind demand. Then they caught up. Something after the end of the war.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Okay, the people back then were such that they toiled at the machine not only for a salary, sometimes in a half-starved state.

                        Again, it's not true, they paid very well at the new construction sites of Industrialization, recruiters traveled all over the country luring people to construction sites with rubles. From villages as a rule. But during the war there was even labor mobilization from villages. Even teenagers.
                        But the standard of living was constantly rising.
                        In a half-starved state and worked two shifts during the war. And this was also not due to a lack of money, money was actually paid and not small amounts. And the people sent this money to tank columns and to planes with guns. Surprised that it turns out that you can help the front like this. But there was a shortage of food and consumer goods then, there were ration cards - War.
                        In England after the war the cards remained for several years longer. In the USSR they were the FIRST to be cancelled.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Well, Stalin's breakthrough, the mobilization economy is a topic for a separate conversation, and has no direct relation to the Russian Revolution.

                        As you wish. Although before the RYAV RI such a Ryvak and mobilization economy would only go to the plus. I mean - investment emission for Industrialization and for military needs. Sharapov wrote about this too.
                      23. 0
                        4 September 2025 09: 01
                        1. This is actually unimportant. You can turn paper money into gold, but in reality there will be less gold. Or use for export goods that are much cheaper on the domestic market than on the foreign one. And the list of such goods was not very long. And gold, what a pity, was actively leaving the Russian Empire... yes, this is also Witte's merit. But the result is important.

                        The gold reserves were large, but there were also a lot of debts.

                        “I love the vastness of our plans...” laughing
                        The problem is that in the Russian Empire these are just plans, while others already had reality.

                        Well, I wrote, "on the way." This battleship was laid down before the end of the Russian Navy, taking into account the real combat experience of that war.

                        Well, yes, if we had replaced the rider, we would have overtaken everyone... blessed are those who believe. We still had less money than our "partners", considering the gap in development.
                        We kept catching up, catching up, but we were chronically unable to overtake.

                        Well, I meant the number of these battleships. How many were commissioned by the beginning of WWI? It doesn't matter. They turned out to be practically useless. At least the Germans gave the British an epic fight, and ours? Those in the Baltic turned out to be problematic, too deep a draft for the local depths.

                        Stalin didn't have enough money after all. Well, when there aren't enough carrots, they get out the stick, as we know. So it's stupid to deny the fact of "non-economic coercion". Even if its scale is exaggerated by the "liberal" crowd.

                        Yes, "Mosquito". But they were also so fast thanks to the wood. After all, the English used balsa. It is quite light, but quite strong. The light weight of the hull combined with the powerful engine allowed the "mosquito" to get away from the Messerschmitts.
                        We used pine veneer impregnated with epoxy resin. With the same strength characteristics, such a hull turned out to be heavier than duralumin. We had to reduce the weight/supply of fuel and ammunition, which worsened the flight and combat characteristics. Okay, this is offtopic.
                        The USSR, alas and alack, existed for most of its history in a regime of resource limitations, which slowed down development.

                        Well, some people at the "Industrialization construction sites" had additional bonuses in the form of a premium bowl of gruel. It's unpleasant to admit it, but you can't take words out of a song.

                        Money during the war, when the entire economy worked on the principle of "everything for the front...". These pieces of paper were not very valuable then. Barter was held in high esteem at numerous "flea markets".

                        Yes, we had ration cards cancelled earlier. But I know from my ancestors how life was in the first post-war years. Frankly speaking, it wasn't very satisfying, alas.

                        Sharapov's fantasies. Has he tried himself in the genre of "alternative fiction" by any chance?
                        Elements of a mobilization economy already existed at the end of the First World War. I myself wrote about this as the embryo of the Soviet way of life. But too late and incompletely, when the "fat polar fox" had already acquired a taste for it. But it was impossible to the full extent, after all, capitalism and a market economy. The recipes of Stalin's USSR and the planned economy were of little use.
                      24. 0
                        4 September 2025 14: 31
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        You can turn paper money into gold, but there will be less gold in reality. Or use goods for export that are much cheaper on the domestic market than on the foreign market.

                        Yes, a simple example. The simplest. We issue 1 million rubles in banknotes and issue them as a preferential loan to a Russian merchant for foreign trade. He buys "Russian furs" from industrialists for this money, and chintz, satin, velvet, brocade from Morozov's factories, and takes it all to France. And with the proceeds (gold francs) - home. Having received a loan, say, at 2,5% and having turned it over, say, in 2 years (well, the merchant was in no hurry), he returns the loan to the State Bank in gold francs (that's what the agreement said) at the rate. The State Bank receives 1 million and another 50 thousand rubles in gold instead of the banknotes printed by the Treasury. And puts them into its (state!) bank reserve. And gives the merchant a new loan. This time for 2 million rubles. banknotes, because his trade went well. This is the kind of alchemy. The merchant stimulates the hunters not to hunt, but to establish fur farms (as Stalin did, watch the film "Girl with Character"), stimulates Morozov's factories to increase the production of fabrics in an ever better assortment, earns himself a well-fed, cheerful life, and the Treasury - Gold.
                        And for this gold you can order a machine park for new shipyards and state-owned factories, and build machine gun factories in advance and other weapons factories, so that in case of war there will be enough weapons and capacity for their production, and order ships from foreign shipyards in case of urgent need. Read Sharapov. Stalin did so. And he read Sharapov. But he did not mention his name. And to the questions of foreigners "Where does the USSR get so much money for Industrialization, where does it get it, as a rule, he answered - from the nightstand". And this became a saying of Soviet financiers. And information about the Soviet Financial System was always closed. It was an area of ​​​​State Secrets. The experience of the Russian Empire and Sharapov taught us.

                        Quote: Illanatol

                        The gold reserves were large, but there were also a lot of debts.

                        These were old debts, made before. The colossal funds for the Trans-Siberian Railway were not taken on credit. It was "self-financing". Other infrastructure and development programs had to be financed in the same way.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The problem is that in the Russian Empire these are just plans, while others already had reality.

                        Well, why only plans? The Trans-Siberian Railway was quite real, and this was a test project. And it was completely successful.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        We kept catching up, catching up, but we were chronically unable to overtake.

                        What kind of nonsense is this??
                        In 10 years, by 1940, after the devastating First World War and the Civil War, the collapse and reassembly of the state, after the stage of intra-party struggle, until Stalin's Program won, WE OUTSIDED EVERYONE. England, Germany, and France. Only the USA remained ahead. But we had never competed with them before.
                        And after WWII and the monstrous destruction (not to mention Europe, which suffered much less) the USSR again became the Second Economy of the World. And so on until the murder of this country.
                        Now imagine if without the crushing RYA and its disgrace with the revolution, without WWI (our participation with it until perhaps its last phase) and with the launch of those programs back in the mid-1890s. So - according to the calculations of the analysts of the Rothschild clan, the Russian Empire by this time (the beginning of WWI, 20 years after the start of the reforms) is already the First Economy of the World, which is simply impossible to catch up with. This is from their internal analysis and report at the Congress in Basel.
                        That's it, by the time of WWI, the Russian Empire is a world leader, both economically and militarily. And Germany is nearby - helping with technology, industrial equipment. And France is squeezing and currying favor ever more so that Germany doesn't swallow it up - it's groveling and pandering, and not like what it did in WWI, blackmailing with loans. And England, against the backdrop of the continental union (or commonwealth), is fading and turning pale from the thought of a clash with such power. Not my calculation. And not even Sharapova's - the analytical apparatus of the Rothschild clan.

                        Not only the Mosquitoes were made of wood, not to mention the cloth wings and tail unit. This was a common problem of that time with the shortage of sheet aluminum, and this problem was soon solved. And for us too. Just do not forget that in 1941 only 11 years had passed since the beginning of Industrialization. A couple of years were not enough for the country to fully prepare for war, who knew that France would surrender so quickly ... But it always surrendered quickly. It would have surrendered in 1914, if the Niki-2 had not saved it.

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Sharapov's fantasies. Has he tried himself in the genre of "alternative fiction" by any chance?

                        Of course I tried. His book is named after his science fiction story "After the Victory of the Slavophiles". In the style of Herbert Wells "When the Sleeper Awakes". In the first person. How he, having fallen into a lethargic sleep, wakes up 50 years later in a completely different Russia. But the book also contains his journalism and scientific articles. And even a description/report on a trip as part of the commission of the Ministry of Agriculture to Novorossiya and the Black Sea region. Very informative for understanding how and what the Russian Empire lived by then, this is not reading science fiction historians.
                        And yes - the form of "social fiction" and "science fiction" was then often practiced to propose, predict and lobby for directions of development of society, to reveal problems, flaws and vices that were barely noticeable yet. And he wrote his science fiction story at the height of the revolution of 1905 - as an image of an alternative path of development, which was rejected by the Foolish Tsar, but which is still possible.
                        And at the same time he was organizing the Unions of the Russian People to resist the revolutionary chaos organized from outside. And he succeeded then too. The Troubles were suppressed by the Russian People themselves, and the revolutionaries fled to Switzerland and Manhattan.
                        And Witte then managed to drive him out of Russia in disgrace.
                        But King DyR@k remained on the throne.
                      25. 0
                        2 September 2025 17: 34
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Our paths with the Germans began to diverge back in the Crimean War.

                        Well, that's how paths are - they converge, they diverge...
                        Here Stalin instructed to treat captured Germans well, "they are our future allies." And he was right - the USSR had no more faithful ally than the GDR.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        So - no joint hikes.

                        And you are wrong. After all, not later than during the suppression of the Boxer Rebellion, there was a joint campaign. And both were satisfied with the results.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        And Germany objectively wanted and wants our weakening.

                        Yes, she wanted an alliance. And if the alliance is against her, then of course - weakening. Willie fawned over Alexander-3 like a puppy to a wolfhound.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        If Witte hadn't stopped it, it would have been stopped by other means. Including direct military defeat.

                        Whose side are you playing for, young man?
                        Who was able to stop Stalin's USSR? And HOW they tried.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Control over the financial system and currency emission is the sweetest morsel for the financial oligarchy.

                        The Russian Empire was sovereign. And the tricks of the bankers were open to Alexander III by that time. As was the all-conquering Theory.
                        Remember Stalin's unforgettable: "A people armed with the right theory is invincible."
                        Do you think he's talking about Marxism?
                        So Trotsky and Zinoviev seem to be talking about Marxism, but they only have destruction and "world revolution". But Stalin had His own Theory - the Correct one.
                        Alexander-3 had such a theory. He had it earlier. But Nikolka rejected this Theory - he didn't understand, because DyR@k was.
                        And the Rothschilds understood. Sharapov's archive after his death as a result of an assassination attempt, Witte's agents stole their estates. And he handed them over to the Rothschilds at the turn of 1911 and 1912. And when was the Federal Reserve System founded in the USA? Remember? Take a look and find out.
                        And when they got greedy and caused the Great Depression, then the Rothschilds handed it over to their trusted agent in the US, Borukh. So that he would do everything right. And Borukh began to work Economic Miracles under the patronage of Roosevelt.
                        And in the USSR at the same time, Stalin was performing Economic and Social Miracles. According to Sharapov's programs and with the help of his students.
                        And you probably thought that it fell from the sky on the USA and the USSR.
                        Quote: Illanatol

                        So even if Peter the Great and Ivan the Terrible were in the same bottle in Nikolay's place, the financial cabal would have lost.

                        Not at all. An alliance with Germany would have untied our hands in the West, given us access to technology and industrial equipment. By acting in concert with us, Germany would have acquired new colonies and markets. France would have been simply afraid to break away - Germany would have immediately gobbled it up. So we could have been calm for 10 years. And we would have resolved the Balkan crises with Germany amicably - we needed the straits, and they wanted to build the "Orient Express" across the straits by bridge, through Turkey to Persia and India. So we would have come to an agreement. And the Turks would have been soft and would have only spat in the direction of the English. They were already spitting at that time. It was not for nothing that they fought against the English in WWI.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The damned Bolsheviks have mixed up the cards.

                        Well, to some they are “damned”, but half the world blesses them to this day (remembers them with kind words).

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        There is no way without external loans, just as there is no way without “investments”.

                        Stalin didn't even want to hear about them!
                        But first this heresy was debunked by Sharapov.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        There was always a shortage of own funds.

                        Sharapova had enough for EVERYTHING.
                        As later with Stalin.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        Considering that 80% of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia lived on a subsistence economy, it could not have been otherwise.

                        What is this all about? The flow of excess population from the village to the city was systematic, industry was growing at a fantastic rate (only comparable to Stalin's) even during the war. The budget was filled, there was an excess of workers. The needs were enormous. Natural and other resources were simply in abundance. Develop, prosper and rejoice. Armed with the Correct Theory. A strong Sovereign State will always have as much money as its Economy needs. After all, money is the blood of the economy, and keeping the Body in a state of anemia is a crime. It will wither, fade, degrade. And if you want the Body to grow, stimulate it with fresh injections, so that the Body has something to grow from. Always maintain a balance of Free and Borrowed Money. This is important. Very important. In order to avoid cyclical financial crises. So says the Theory.
                        And it so happened that I formulated this Theory in 1992 independently and without knowing anything about Sharapov. I learned about the existence of this person only in 2005 at the presentation of his Book. So the author of the Theory and I are considered co-authors.
                        And yes, in the same 1992, after voicing my theory (I didn't even give it a name, but I also called it a "theory"), I was asked for some help in drawing up a program. I immediately sketched it out/formulated it. A day later, it was recommended to all companies and enterprises in the industry... And it saved the entire oil-producing industry of the Russian Federation from collapse. Gazprom also adopted it six months later. It still works. But it is known under the authorship of another person, a person I respect very much, a leading specialist in the industry, who headed the "brainstorming group" at the time (17 "young scientists" + the manager). So don't argue, I know the value of my opinion.
                        And Sharapov and I are considered co-authors... although I repeated it about 100 years later.
                        Launching development programs is not difficult. It is difficult to obtain permission to do so. Because this knowledge is in the forbidden realm.
                        However, in the USSR, Political Economy was taught.
                        But in the Russian Federation - NO.
                        You obviously didn't catch it.
                      26. 0
                        3 September 2025 09: 10
                        1. What does the GDR have to do with it? You might as well have remembered Cuba. And the GDR is only a part of Germany, and a small one at that. But the FRG is kind of an "ally" for us.

                        2. The Boxer Rebellion? Well, from the point of view of the Chinese of that time, all Europeans were essentially one people, with minor differences. And it was a short, situational alliance, based on local interests. Russia did not look good in such an alliance at all, since it played the same role of an imperialist predator.

                        3. If a European power wants an alliance with Russia, it only means that this power wants to use Russia as a cash cow or cannon fodder, and then screw it over. Like in the Napoleonic wars or in the First World War.
                        Suvorov fought his way through Italy, crushing the French. What did we get from his victories? At least a piece of Italy?

                        3. What does Stalin have to do with this? We are discussing a different era.
                        And yes, Tsarist Russia was stopped by a double defeat. First in the Russian Revolution, then in the First World War. In the latter case - together with the revolution.
                        In this historical episode, those same "Jewish-Mason bankers" killed two birds with one stone, brought two empires to their knees (even more, but let's leave that out of the equation): the Russian and the German. In each of the empires, there was a revolution, even two (socialist and liberal-democratic). Democratic revolutions enjoyed the full support of those same bankers. The difference is that in Russia, the socialist revolution won, in Germany, the democratic one, that is, the Germans were won by their "whites". After the establishment of the Weimar Republic, the financial system of Germany fell under the control of those same bankers, which eventually led to some economic problems. However, German "democracy" quite naturally gave birth to the Hitler regime, but his "Thousand-Year Reich" did not last long, and the FRG walked and walks under the same bankers on half-bent legs.
                        If there had been no Bolsheviks in Russia or they had lost the Civil War, a similar fate awaited us. A democratized Russia would have eventually produced its own Fuhrer, I am sure. However, after the defeat of the communists... I will probably stop here for obvious reasons.

                        4. Well, it doesn't hurt to dream about such a blissful union with Germany. I consider it impossible and utopian.

                        5. What does Stalin have to do with this again? We are discussing Tsarist Russia. And it took loans until the very last moment and left a pile of debts as an inheritance.
                        The actual cost estimate for the construction of the same Trans-Siberian Railway exceeded the initial one several times, so we had to bow down to the damned bankers.

                        6. Stalin again. There will soon be no free places left in the ranks of the local Stalinists. Stalin did not shy away from loans, he just knew how to take them on extremely favorable terms for the USSR. He begged for the most favorable loan from Hitler when signing the notorious Pact, for 200 million gold marks. Hitler understood perfectly well that the loan would not be repaid, but was forced to give it so as not to give grounds for doubting the strength of the Pact. And the USSR used this loan money to buy high-tech equipment for its military-industrial complex from the Reich. A rare case when our country managed to screw over the Europeans. The Romanovs could not boast of such a thing.

                        7. That's what Sharapov has. If there really was enough for everything, tsarist Russia wouldn't have had so many debts. Besides, it wasn't just money that was lacking. There was a shortage of labor, especially skilled labor. And where would it come from in an essentially agrarian country? There are few workers, most of them are yesterday's "hay and straw". The work culture is not the highest, in Germany, for example, there are already working labor dynasties. Technical educational institutions of the Russian Empire produced hardly more specialists, engineers, than "enormous" Belgium.
                        So there was no surplus of labor, it's all a fairy tale. There weren't enough workers. High rates? Well, in percentages - yes. But behind each percent in the Russian Empire there was much less physical content than in Germany or England. Therefore, a significant part of technically complex products had to be purchased abroad, paying for them with bread, butter, furs, gold. It is enough to look at the structure of foreign trade (import/export) of "crust-bakery Russia" to understand our technical backwardness.
                        At least the USSR exported weapons, and Tsarist Russia bought weapons in considerable quantities. Well, in the Russian Army they managed, but the First World War ("Everything for the front, everything for Victory!") clearly showed that the autocracy failed even in this direction, which had the highest priority.

                        7. It's obvious only to you. I'm not such a "young man" as you imagine. I've seen "political economy" and "scientific communism" and so on.
                        Even then I was critical of many of these courses, because I understood that not everything was as we were taught. And later, seeing how some lecturers had changed their tune in the post-Soviet times, I drew the appropriate conclusions for myself. So I don't think that the collapse of the USSR and the collapse of socialism were the result solely of the efforts of Western "James Bonds" and the apostasy of some bad party officials. Everything is much deeper and sadder.

                        So, excuse me, but I don't really believe in utopian ideas of "launching development programs". Development is possible, but only the kind we have now in fact. And the current generation simply does not deserve anything better than the current "Kremlin regime" and will not have it in the foreseeable future.
                      27. 0
                        3 September 2025 14: 16
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        I'm not such a "young man" as you imagine. I've seen "political economy" and "scientific communism" and so on.

                        Well, that means you and I are about the same age, which simplifies the dialogue somewhat, because the basis and outlook of the interlocutor in correspondence communication is not always obvious.
                        The thing is that some time ago the author of this article and I actively communicated on a similar forum and he (and another respected author of VO) asked me to write an article or a series of articles on this topic... But for me it is not very convenient now, my archive is beyond my access, and without quality reference material and primary sources it is difficult to prepare a quality work, and I did not want to do it anyhow. But this very timely article came out, which I hope will have a sequel. For now it is more convenient for me to express my opinion and knowledge on forums. In addition, the article included what we discussed the day before.
                        To analyze the causes, course and results of that war without studying the root causes, sources of those plans and decisions is to knowingly put yourself at the level of an ant that has climbed into a computer, crawling on the boards and trying to understand what it actually is. Any opinion of an ant will be wrong by definition, because it does not know where it climbed, what it is, why, why such a scale and why everything around is so illogical (from the ant's point of view). Especially if you judge from the point of view of hindsight, but without knowledge of the background. This is in no way an accusation or reproach, I myself was such an ant and crawled on the boards trying to understand the patterns, sequences and interrelationships. Many archives on this subject are still closed to access, some have been destroyed or taken away (most are now stored in the Library of Congress of the United States), some have been published, but in limited editions of specialized publications, have not received wide distribution and have not been included in textbooks. Therefore, when I speak/write about obvious and reliably known to me things request it is weakly taken on faith. This is a common reaction, but I try to suggest sources and motivate for self-knowledge. For a Lie is not only and not so much an absolute and outright untruth, as an incomplete truth, diluted with lies and false premises, guidelines, connotations. Sometimes there can be only 10% of lies in the material, but it radically changes the perception of absolutely accurate data. And there is especially a lot of this in materials about the history of our country. As one character said: "History is Politics overturned into the past" - i.e. a deliberate Lie written by the next winner. And there were not just many coups (revolutions translated into French) in our history ... It all consists of coups. All the more valuable are the materials of those years from statesmen who took part in the drafting of those plans and programs that were implemented and embodied by statesmen of subsequent teams, incl. after the change of formations. And comparison of those plans and those implemented in practice. I tried to convey to you that everything that happened to Russia\USSR from the beginning of the 90s until the collapse of the USSR and the subsequent period is the result of the "policy of containment" in order to prevent the implementation of those very plans prepared for implementation in the Russian Empire in the early 90s. Moreover, when the leadership of the Country tried to follow these plans, using them as the basis of its domestic and foreign policy, it was successful, the country developed and went from victory to victory. And when idiots or enemy henchmen came to power, everything went to hell, the state stagnated, began to fawn on the dwarf Europes or even lost sovereignty, as happened in 1991. So, in essence, the way out of the gravest crisis and impasse of the modern Russian Federation and the prevention of the death of the state and the People ... is only in turning to the Golden Heritage of the Ancestors. For this is the Golden Key that opens the door to the Bright Future.
                        But the path to this Bright Future lies through the Struggle and desperate resistance of the parasites. The Keepers of this Golden Key are waiting for their Buratino (even if wooden, but honest and purposeful), but only Duremars come. And Barabasy. And the Golden Key can only be given to a real Hero.
                        Stalin was such a Hero. And he was definitely not made of wood. Although, having fallen through the ice (in exile), he swam under the ice to a hole, got out and after that survived. In winter. In Siberia. (Buratino was also drowned by swindlers and robbers).
                        Some people in the Russian Presidential Administration know about Sharapov. But the previous attempt to seize the Golden Key ended badly - several good people were killed, the program was shut down, and the publisher of his book ended up in prison. So nothing has changed since the time of Alexander III and Sharapov. But times change. Remember Pushkin in his "Ruslan and Lyudmila":
                        "He brings the stars down from the sky
                        He whistles - the moon trembles
                        But against the Time of Law
                        His science No. not strong."

                        Quote: Illanatol
                        He begged the most favorable loan from Hitler when signing the notorious Pact, for 200 million gold marks. Hitler understood perfectly well that the loan would not be repaid,

                        Well, what makes you think that this is the "most profitable" loan? Moreover, that they were not going to pay it back? And who said that they did not pay it back? It was a regular loan for current purchases, which we repaid with counter deliveries (grain, iron ore, and from waste heaps with an iron content of 20%, oil, etc.). We worked with the USA in exactly the same way, they gave us a loan for purchased equipment, etc., and we gave a counter loan in rubles for purchases from us, or repaid with counter deliveries with repayment of such a Current loan by the end of the year. This was a normal rule of balanced parity trade. We simply never took a loan "for development". And deliveries to repay the German loan went right up until 03.20. June 22.06.1941, 70 - then the last echelon crossed the border from the USSR to Germany. Nobody was "ripping anyone off", it was normal trade, and before Hitler it was also quite lively. Over 18% of deliveries for our Industrialization were made by the USA and XNUMX% by Germany. All loans for these deliveries were repaid by the end of each current year with our counter deliveries. That's how Stalin traded. The USSR had no debts other than current deliveries. And we did not recognize the tsarist debts, filing a counterclaim for intervention and plunder of Russia.
                        The point of what I am saying is that very soon, maybe even before the end of this year or next year, the Bretton Woods System - the international financial system - may collapse. Because its Time... is up. And these are not only the Laws of Time, but also all of them together. But what will happen after that... if they do not take into account a nuclear war... we will see. If we survive.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        I don't really believe in utopian ideas of "launching development programs".

                        So no one believed Stalin, liberal parasites, opponents and waiters. However, he launched it.
                        And then Sharapov launched the financing of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway. Without a penny of credit in the West and without an internal loan. In 8 years from the beginning of the program, the Trans-Siberian Railway was built. And the CER. The southern branch of the Circum-Baikal Railway was completed in another 1,5-2 years. On these contracts, the Putilov factories and other contractors grew, related industries exploded in development. Connectivity improved, trade grew, budget revenues. And yes - the budget was in surplus.
                        There was an attempt to launch such a development program in 2005-2006, but... it was quickly and harshly suppressed, with those same murders, ultimatums, complex pressure... And Putin rolled back the reform.
                        but... he knows where the Golden Key is kept. And how it launches Progress - those very development programs.
                        Quote: Illanatol
                        The current generation simply does not deserve anything better than the current "Kremlin regime" and will not have it in the foreseeable future.

                        You shouldn't judge the current generation like that. Before 2014, I had the same thoughts, and quite rightly so. And after the fascist coup in Kyiv, I literally saw, met, and observed so many Golden Youth in Donetsk... with all my might. Many died, that's what this vile war was conceived for. So don't say never. Hard times give birth to Strong People. The odds don't last forever. The country with the Field of Miracles won't be called such forever. Remember how Talkov sang? Do you know where his museum is in Moscow?
                        Where Sharapov's Book was presented in 2005. When the All-Russian Economic Society named after him was founded. The International Slavic Center of Literature and Culture.
          2. 0
            27 August 2025 19: 41
            Quote: Illanatol
            So what?

            Only that the problems of the army and navy were laid down by the Peacemaker.
            1. 0
              28 August 2025 14: 16
              No. Under Alexander III, the development of both the army and navy (taking into account real possibilities) proceeded quite successfully.
              And in general, Russia’s main problems (both then and now) are to the greatest extent connected not with its Armed Forces.
              1. +1
                28 August 2025 16: 24
                Quote: Illanatol
                No.

                Yes!
                Quote: Illanatol
                development and armies

                Vannovsky and development are incompatible. "Stagnation" is more appropriate here.
                Quote: Illanatol
                And in general, Russia’s main problems (both then and now) are to the greatest extent connected not with its Armed Forces.

                It is hard to argue with this thesis. But the Peacemaker left a lot of problems in other areas as well. Although there were, of course, some successes.
                For example, one can answer the progressive movement in the field of finance. After all, the transition to the Golden Ruble was conceived not by Witte or even Vyshnegradsky, but by Bunge. Since the monetary system that had developed by that time from unsecured paper money and the foreign trade gold ruble with a floating rate was absurd.
                But like any reform, it had both positive and negative consequences.
                1. 0
                  29 August 2025 08: 20
                  I see. They would replace Vannovsky with Pupkin and build a fleet of pepelats armed with blasters. What is the stagnation, specifically? Especially if you consider the real state of domestic industry.

                  Didn't it occur to you that these problems could have been left over from predecessors, as a legacy? Technological backwardness in many areas from a number of European countries began under Catherine the Great. It became most obvious during the Crimean War.
                  To understand the scale of our lag, it is enough to look at the dynamics of metal smelting: cast iron, steel, non-ferrous metals. Even under Catherine, we were quite up to par, even exporting cast iron. But by the end of this queen's reign, we were being significantly outpaced. And as a result, we began to lag behind.
                  And even now, despite all the high technology, we live in the "iron age". Find out which countries are leaders in metal production, consumption, and the volume of metal reserves. Those that are the most developed... those that can afford a large and well-armed army.
                  And replacing some people in this area does not change anything. Not enough metal - there will not be enough modern ships, modern artillery (with shells), etc.

                  It doesn't matter who conceived it, it matters who carried it out. The monetary reform was carried out by Witte.
                  And why did you assume that paper money is not backed? Money is backed primarily by the goods that can be bought with it. Almost everything that was sold on the domestic market could be bought for banknotes.
                  As for the "absurdity" - you are absolutely wrong! Only such a dual system can provide our country with the right course of development and independence from "international financial structures". In fact, such a system existed in the USSR. There was also a "foreign currency ruble" and a "wooden" one (moreover, cash and non-cash circulation were intentionally separated and were under strict state control). The introduction of internal conversion of national currency inevitably leads to economic negativity. Since, under equal conditions, financial openness to the outside world and the market, we, with ironclad regularity, remain a total loser.
                  1. +1
                    1 September 2025 16: 59
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    Clear. They would replace Vannovsky with Pupkin.

                    Everything is the other way around. Milyutin was replaced by Vannovsky.
                    During the entire reign of Emperor Alexander III, Vannovsky was Minister of War, and during all this time there was terrible stagnation in the military department. Whose fault it was, the Emperor himself or Vannovsky, I do not know, but the consequences of this stagnation were terrible. Incompetent and decrepit people were not dismissed, appointments were made according to seniority, capable people were not promoted, but moved [158] along the line, lost interest in service, initiative and energy, and when they reached the highest positions, they were already little different from the surrounding mass of mediocrities. This absurd system also explains the terrible composition of the commanding officers, both at the end of the reign of Alexander III, and later, during the Japanese War!

                    This is Rediger. He is the best military minister of the Russian Empire.
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    Technological lag

                    Yes, due to technological backwardness, it is impossible to kick out the “old senile ones”. request
                    Quote: Illanatol
                    In fact, such a system existed in the USSR.

                    And it didn't end well...
        2. 0
          22 January 2026 16: 31
          Quote: Senior Sailor
          Somehow, one thing doesn't fit together. Because this railway worker wormed his way into the ministerial ranks right under the penultimate emperor.

          This engineer then proposed to the Tsar a new scheme for organizing the transportation of troops and ammunition during the Russian-Turkish War of 1877, which was necessary to achieve victory before Great Britain assembled a military coalition against Russia.
    3. -3
      26 August 2025 08: 40
      Quote: ROSS 42
      And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?

      The sharp increase in population is one of the indisputable achievements of Nikolaev Russia. It is connected, among other things, with the development of rural medicine.
      1. -4
        26 August 2025 09: 19
        Lies. The Romanovs, like the enemies of the USSR, did not care about the health of their people, and the Russian Empire was in first place in the world in terms of mortality and infectious diseases.
        The high birth rate was, firstly, because of this
        According to the Penal Code of 1885 (Articles 1461, 1462), artificial abortion was punishable by "hard labor for 4 to 5 years, deprivation of all rights of state, exile to Siberia for settlement." The Criminal Code of 1903 mitigated the measures of restraint: "A mother guilty of killing her fetus is punished by imprisonment in a correctional facility for no more than 3 years, a doctor from 1,5 to 6 years."
        Then there were no contraceptives, 85% of the people lived in villages, in communities where the land was distributed according to the number of eaters - the more of them, the more land the family had.
        1. +2
          26 August 2025 09: 48
          where the land was distributed according to the number of eaters - the more there are, the more land the family has.

          the land was distributed according to the number of men... - because they - worked the land...
          so the birth of a boy is another piece of land
          1. 0
            27 August 2025 13: 31
            There were no uniform rules for distributing land. The "world", that is, the community, could establish the rules themselves. Usually, those that suited the most "authoritative" community members.
      2. -4
        26 August 2025 18: 59
        Alexander 3, one of the best rulers of Russia, starting from Rurik
    4. +2
      26 August 2025 13: 37
      Quote: ROSS 42
      And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?

      Well, achievements are different, some are positive, and others are negative, I could write the same article about the latter, but I’m banned.
    5. -3
      26 August 2025 18: 56
      I agree: we know little about "true achievements"
      This "in comparison" reminded me of: "Operation Y": "spaceships furrow the Bolshoi Theater" (C)
    6. -2
      29 August 2025 14: 32
      Many thanks to the author! Excellent material beyond all praise. The author has covered these events perfectly and made a deep hint about the possibility of a coming "obscene" peace, which could turn into shame and a new war for us.
      Russia was much stronger than Japan in military and economic terms and could continue the war further… The Minister of War, General Sakharov, declared: “Under the current conditions, it is impossible to end the war. Given our complete defeat, without having a single victory or even a successful undertaking, this is a disgrace. This will lower Russia’s prestige and remove it from the ranks of the great powers for a long time…”
  2. +6
    26 August 2025 04: 28
    Quote: ROSS 42
    And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?
    I don't remember any particular achievements. Maybe someone can correct me?
    1. +2
      26 August 2025 05: 46
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Maybe someone can correct this?

      I'll correct you, the Romanovs have no achievements. Well, except that they made the people serfs and drove them into churches with fines.
      Peter I tried especially hard. He brought the existence of the state to the brink, destroyed about 20% of the population, and imposed Western order on the country. His antics about Dutch cows, masons, and barrels on roofs are a source of bitter laughter. But everyone loves him: liberals, priests, and the current government.
      1. -3
        26 August 2025 09: 02
        bya965, you are as self-confident as you are illiterate. I can only remind you of the words of the Russian historian Klyuchevsky: "Learn history!"
        1. +7
          26 August 2025 09: 52
          Quote: bug120560
          bya965, you are as self-confident as you are illiterate. I can only remind you of the words of the Russian historian Klyuchevsky: "Learn history!"

          You yourself have read Klyuchevsky. I have read him, and more than once. And I have read other things. Here is part of what you do not know.
          The introduction of priestly supervision of people's conscience by Peter I is the apotheosis of officialdom. The decree of the Senate of February 17, 1718 on the obligation of confession and the fining of persons evading it existed with minor changes for 84 years. The essence of this decree: peasants and commoners are obliged to go to church; for evading confession they are subject to a fine: commoners and tradesmen the first time - in the amount of 1 ruble, the second time - 2 rubles and the third - 3 rubles, peasants for skipping confession first paid 10 denga, i.e. 5 kopecks, then a grivna, and finally 5 altyns. This money was transferred to hospitals. In addition to this main decree, in the first quarter of the 8th century, Senate decrees were also issued on February 1716, 10, February 1721, 6, June 1722, XNUMX.

          The money for the peasants was simply enormous. In addition, there was barter, so it was very difficult to exchange your labor for money to pay the fine.

          Should I write about his antics about Dutch cows, masons and barrels on roofs?
          1. -11
            26 August 2025 10: 12
            bya965, I never advise others to do something that I don't know myself, that's how my parents raised me. I want to remind you once again - history judges not so much by actions as by results. What did Russia get as a result of the "eccentricities" of the Romanovs in the XNUMXth - XNUMXth centuries, do you know for yourself or do I need to remind you?
            1. +10
              26 August 2025 10: 25
              Quote: bug120560
              What did Russia get as a result of the "eccentricities" of the Romanovs in the 18th - 20th centuries? Do you know for yourself or do I need to remind you?

              Backwardness. Serving the interests of the West. Millions of unborn, millions who gave their lives for nothing. There was an article on this site a dozen years ago, this is from it
              In the 16 century, Ivan the Terrible came to power. During his reign in Russia:

              - jury trial entered
              - free primary education (church schools)
              - medical quarantine at borders
              - local electoral government, instead of governor
              - the regular army first appeared (and the first military uniform in the world was at the archers)
              - Tatar raids stopped
              - equality was established between all segments of the population (did you know that serfdom at that time did not exist in Russia at all? The peasant was obliged to sit on the land until he paid for its rent, and nothing more. And his children were considered free from birth, in any case!).
              - slave labor is forbidden (source - the lawsuit of Ivan the Terrible);
              - The state monopoly on the fur trade, introduced by Grozny, was canceled just 10 (ten!) Years ago.
              - The territory of the country is increased by 30 times!
              - emigration of the population from Europe exceeded 30 000 families (those who settled along Zasechnaya line were paid lifting 5 rubles per family. Expenditure books were preserved).
              - The growth of the welfare of the population (and paid taxes) during the reign amounted to several thousand (!) Percent.
              - for all the reign there was not a single executed without trial, the total number of "repressed" was from three to four thousand. (And times were dashing - remember St. Bartholomew's night) For stupid ones, let me remind you - this is about “enlightened” France.

              https://topwar.ru/31083-rus-iznachalnaya-zachem-evropeycy-vrut.html
              1. -10
                26 August 2025 14: 04
                bya965, and in your opinion it doesn't count that it was under Peter I that the Baltic shores were returned to Russia, the Baltic Fleet was created, that under Catherine II the Wild Field, Crimea, the Volga region and the Orenburg lands were incorporated into Russia and populated, and that the Black Sea Fleet was created? And the fact that "backward" Russia was the first in the world to build a specialized icebreaker ("Ermak"), the first in the world to build a destroyer whose boilers were fueled by fuel oil ("Novik"), the first in the world to build a multi-engine airplane ("Ilya Muromets"). For the gifted, I will once again remind you of Klyuchevsky's words - study history.
                1. +3
                  26 August 2025 14: 38
                  Quote: bug120560
                  the shores of the Baltic were returned, the Baltic Fleet was created,

                  Well, it's hard to say or describe with a pen.
                  Leafing through the pages of the chronicle of the Russian fleet, we recall the campaigns of Russian princes under the walls of Constantinople, the exploits of the ushkuiniks, the raids of the Cossacks on the Black and Caspian Seas and, of course, the construction of the fleet by Peter the Great.

                  But few people know that in school curricula there is not a single line about this layer of Russian history – about the pirate fleet of Ivan Vasilyevich.

                  https://topwar.ru/3711-pervyj-russkij-flot-piraty-groznogo-carya.html

                  Warships under the Russian flag first appeared on the Baltic Sea in 1570, long before the birth of Peter I, whose name is usually associated with the birth of the Russian fleet. The first Russian squadron was commanded by a former Danish pirate, but his ships' crews included Russian Pomor sailors, riflemen, and gunners.

                  https://topwar.ru/160309-russkij-morskoj-otaman-karsten-rode.html
                  1. -7
                    26 August 2025 15: 09
                    bya965, all your judgments seem to come from the "dense" knowledge of the same ignoramuses and you simply boast about it. Actually, there is nothing to be surprised about after the "profound" statements about serfs. So you will know that serfdom in Russia was introduced in 1497 by the adoption of the Code of Laws of Ivan III, and was abolished on February 19 (March 3), 1861 by the Manifesto "On the most gracious granting to serfs of the rights of the state of free rural inhabitants" of Emperor Alexander II.
                    And one more thing about cast iron (if you are too lazy to read anything yourself). Tisdale, 1991. "Gun Casting in the Weald in the 16th Century": "In 1539-40, the master of the cannon casting of the Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Berg casts 9 cast-iron cannons, each weighing about 500 kilograms. The caliber, unfortunately, is unknown. In the same year 1540, Francis I, King of France, pays for the casting and testing of 12 cast-iron cannons of three calibers, and in 1542 he orders the casting of 126 cannons, including 6 shortened culverins weighing about 1200 kilograms each."
                    1. +4
                      26 August 2025 15: 20
                      Quote: bug120560
                      So, you will know that serfdom in Russia was introduced in 1497 with the adoption of the Code of Laws of Ivan III.

                      1497 year:
                      Restriction of the right of peasants to transfer from one landowner to another on St. George's Day.
                      .....
                      1649 year:
                      The Cathedral Code finally legally consolidated serfdom, establishing an indefinite search for runaway peasants.
                      These Romanovs again.

                      Quote: bug120560
                      In 1539-40, the master of the gun casting of the Duke of Jülich-Cleve-Berg casts 9 cast-iron guns, each weighing about 500 kilograms. The caliber, unfortunately, is unknown. In the same 1540, Francis I, King of France, pays for the casting and testing of 12 cast-iron guns of three calibers, and in 1542 he orders the casting of 126 guns, including 6 shortened culverins weighing about 1200 kilograms each.

                      Now the question. And the guns actually fired. The cost of a bronze gun, compared to, say, a copper one? By the way, Napoleon had mostly copper ones, and Napoleon himself, a gunner, and his subordinates talked about the low service life of the barrel, etc.
                      But money needs to be saved.
                      But cast iron ones seem to be cheap, in terms of the material they are made from. So why didn't enlightened Europe build them?
                    2. +1
                      26 August 2025 15: 26
                      Here's Klyuchevskoy for you
                      There are two opposing views in Russian historiography on the circumstances and time of the emergence of serfdom - the so-called "decree" and "non-decree" versions. Both of them arose in the middle of the 1592th century. The first of them is based on the assertion of the existence of a specific law at the end of the XNUMXth century, namely from XNUMX, on the final prohibition of peasant transfer from one landowner to another; and the other - relying on the absence of such a decree among the surviving official documents, considers serfdom as a gradual and extended process of the loss of civil and property rights by previously free people.

                      The founder of the "decree" version is considered to be the famous 1592th century historiographer S. M. Solovyov. It was he who, for a number of reasons, defended the existence of the law of 50 on the prohibition of peasant transfer, or the abolition of "Yuryev's Day", issued during the reign of Tsar Feodor Ioannovich. Soviet historiography actively took the side of S. M. Solovyov in this matter. The preferable advantages of this hypothesis in the eyes of Soviet historians were that it presented social and class contradictions more vividly and sharply, pushing the fact of enslavement more than XNUMX years into the past.

                      V. O. Klyuchevsky tried to refute the "decree" version, having extracted from reliable sources many texts of peasants' land records from the 1620s - 1630s, testifying to the fact that even at that time, that is, almost half a century after the supposed decree on the enslavement of peasants from 1592, the ancient right of peasants to "leave" the landowner's land was fully preserved. The land records only stipulate the conditions for leaving, the right itself is not questioned. V. O. Klyuchevsky's theory dominated in pre-revolutionary historiography until the discovery by S. M. Adrianov of the royal charter on the Dvina from 1592 "On the search for the original and eternal peasants who fled from the patrimony of the Nikolsko-Korelsky Monastery", which mentions "protected years".

                      https://ru.ruwiki.ru/wiki/Крепостное_право_в_России

                      Here, as always, the priests have made their mark. I'm generally interested in whether, in a thousand years of Christianity, the priests have done anything good for Rus'?
                      1. -5
                        26 August 2025 16: 02
                        bya965, you see how useful it is. You got interested and started reading. If you hadn't limited yourself to quotes, but had taken and studied the topic of interest to you as fully as possible, you'd have fewer questions and a higher level of education.
                2. 0
                  27 August 2025 00: 54
                  Yeah, read about Novik boilers and turbines, there was an article recently.
                  1. -2
                    27 August 2025 07: 24
                    Volga-1980, are you hinting that the boilers and turbines were imported? So what? This is a common practice in history, when the best components are used to create advanced products. Thus, the best jet fighter of the 2nd generation MiG-15 had engines from the English company Rolls-Royce. However, no one says that this is not a Soviet machine.
                    1. +1
                      27 August 2025 15: 09
                      Thus, the best 2nd generation jet fighter MiG-15 had engines from the English company Rolls-Royce.

                      Well, only bought in a single sample to disassemble it, and then set up a full production cycle at home, as well as further development of engines based on it. Completely dependent on supplies and be able to make a conveyor with a working copy of a thing of a slightly different order.
                      1. 0
                        5 September 2025 15: 40
                        Quote: Zvezdochka
                        Thus, the best 2nd generation jet fighter MiG-15 had engines from the English company Rolls-Royce.

                        Well, only bought in a single sample to disassemble it, and then set up a full production cycle at home, as well as further development of engines based on it. Completely dependent on supplies and be able to make a conveyor with a working copy of a thing of a slightly different order.

                        Russia also began to make turbines for its ships itself.
                      2. 0
                        5 September 2025 18: 07
                        This is great, but, alas, not enough to be on par or superior to the enemy. The example with the MIGs is indicative of how quickly and successfully the project was completed without any outside help at all, there is only mockery of the very fact of selling engines after the Fulton speech.
                3. +2
                  27 August 2025 13: 45
                  There were certainly achievements. As well as failures, however.
                  The main negative is that it was under the Romanovs that the rich and the poor became not just different classes, estates, but actually became different peoples, with different languages ​​and cultures. Forced partial Westernization laid a huge explosive charge under the foundation of the empire. It exploded in 1917.
                  Question: was it necessary to do this? Was it necessary to divide your people like this in order to create an advanced army, navy, etc.?
                  I note that some of the lands lost during the Time of Troubles were returned before Peter without such “innovations.”

                  As for Russia's backwardness - alas, in general, that was the case. Yes, there were breakthroughs, advanced developments, discoveries. But, on average, the level was low. And how these breakthroughs were achieved, how home-grown bureaucrats "facilitated" them... well, there is a lot of literature written on this topic.
                  By the way, can you remind me what engines were installed on the Ilya Muromets? Were they Russian-made? Or German and (later) English?
                4. +1
                  29 August 2025 12: 42
                  And the fact that “backward” Russia was the first in the world to build a specialized icebreaker (“Ermak”), the first in the world to build a destroyer whose boilers were fueled by fuel oil (“Novik”), the first in the world to build a multi-engine aircraft (“Ilya Muromets”).

                  We read in Wiki about "Ermak": "Manufacturer - Armstrong Whitworth", boilers and turbines of "Novik" are imported, motors of "Ilya Muromets" - too.
                  1. -2
                    29 August 2025 14: 42
                    Andrey, what do you think - is it possible to create something (especially when there is nothing to copy) without developing a project? Or maybe Novik turbines and Ilya Muromets engines, in your understanding, can float and fly on their own? Enough of the tales about the "unwashed and bast-shoe-clad" tsarist Russia.
                    1. 0
                      29 August 2025 22: 06
                      without project development

                      Do you think that a project is the link by which the entire chain is pulled out?
                      And little things like turbines and motors will follow.
                      1. -2
                        30 August 2025 10: 52
                        Andrey, I will reveal to you one very big "secret" - any technically complex unit has components and there is a product in assembly, but the characteristics are still judged by the product. So, let's not talk about the "backwardness" of Tsarist Russia, it was so "backward" that by the beginning of WWI it was the only one in the world with strategic aviation and mine cruisers of the "Novik" class, something that no army in the world had. And if we talk about the Russian Imperial Army, it would be good to remember the legendary 3-inch model 1902, which the Germans and Austrians nicknamed the "scythe of death".
                      2. +2
                        30 August 2025 19: 25
                        approached the only one in the world with strategic aviation and mine-laying cruisers of the Novik class

                        "Ilya Muromets" is not at all suitable for strategic aviation. Was Berlin bombed?
                        Five Noviks would be enough to cover a light cruiser in terms of displacement. In terms of artillery, no way.
                      3. -2
                        30 August 2025 22: 00
                        Andrey Lozin, don't disgrace yourself with your knowledge. You forget that the Ilya Muromets flew in WWI, when no other aircraft flew such distances. Strategic aviation becomes strategic not from the ability to bomb the enemy's capital, but from the ability to bomb strategic targets deep behind enemy lines. No warring army had such aircraft before 1915. As for the Novik, it was laid down on July 19, 1910 at the Putilov Plant in St. Petersburg, and launched on June 21, 1911. In 1910, when the issue of including the ship in the Baltic Fleet was being decided on the eve of the ship's keel being laid, the hero of the Russo-Japanese War, the head of the Baltic Sea naval forces, Vice-Admiral N. O. Essen, personally appealed to the Emperor with a request to assign the newest Russian torpedo cruiser the name "Novik", in memory of the 2nd rank cruiser ("light torpedo cruiser"), which he commanded in 1902-1904. The ship's artillery armament consisted of 4 × 102 mm, and the torpedo armament consisted of four twin-tube torpedo tubes of 450 mm caliber. And for complete understanding - a ship similar to the Novik (a destroyer of the V type) appeared in Germany only in 1915 and was inferior to the Novik in everything except maximum speed, both gave about 37 knots, but the German could go at such a speed for 4-6 miles, the Novik had no such problems. Russian sailors demonstrated all this in their very first battle with their German "colleagues".
                      4. 0
                        30 August 2025 23: 32
                        In 1910, ... Admiral N. O. Essen personally approached the Emperor with a request to assign the name "Novik" to the newest Russian mine cruiser.

                        The term "mine cruiser" was abolished in 1907. And for good reason.
                        By the end of World War I, the Novik-class destroyers were no longer the best in the world: British and German destroyers had switched to larger-caliber artillery (120 mm), and the Noviks were no longer record-breaking in speed.

                        Voisins were the main type of bomber in the Russian army.

                        We can also remember Lebedenko's "tank".
                    2. 0
                      30 August 2025 08: 54
                      The Ilya Muromets project was not very successful. The planes often broke down, precisely because of the unsuccessful design, and therefore were in repair too often and for too long. Find out how many combat sorties these planes made on average during WWI. Alas, too few for such a long war.
        2. +1
          26 August 2025 09: 56
          P.S. I forgot about cast iron. Our ancestors knew how to cast cast iron cannons back in the 16th century, unlike the enlightened West. It's very difficult. One cannon has been preserved in a Russian museum.
          1. -2
            26 August 2025 13: 52
            bya965, you specifically about cast iron. K. Ryzhov "Cast-iron cannonballs and cast-iron cannons": "In the middle of the 15th century, cast-iron cannonballs began to be cast in Flanders, then this art became widespread in France. Gradually, cast-iron cannonballs completely displaced stone ones from use. This entailed major changes in all artillery." So, as Klyuchevsky used to say - study history.
            1. +1
              26 August 2025 14: 44
              Quote: bug120560
              K. Ryzhov "Cast-iron cannonballs and cast-iron cannons": "In the middle of the 15th century, cast-iron cannonballs began to be cast in Flanders, then this art became widespread in France.

              You can even make cannonballs out of stone. But it's very difficult to make a cannon that can withstand the pressure and not burst. All sorts of caverns, the fragility of cast iron. There's a foreign word for it - technology.
              Or you don't understand the difference between a shot and a cannon. When I was young, I used to push a 7.257 kg shot over 1 adult. But the shot is simple, and the pusher is a complex living organism.
            2. 0
              27 August 2025 13: 48
              Who and where created the first breech-loading guns?
              Is it also in Flanders?
              1. -3
                27 August 2025 14: 54
                Anatoly, are you trying to accuse me of lack of patriotism or ignorance of history? I hasten to disappoint you - I suffer from neither. Russia is my country by birth and by life, and I love history, probably because my father was a historian. In the Artillery Museum of St. Petersburg there is a copper arquebus with the date of casting - 1615 and an inscription in Latin, the exact translation of which reads: "To the great lord tsar and great leader Mikhail Fedorovich of all bears" which has a wedge breech with a mechanism that sets it in motion. So, it is simply stupid to dispute the primacy of our craftsmen. By the way, a very interesting story is connected with this cannon. At the end of the XNUMXth century, St. Petersburg was visited by the then cannon king Friedrich Krupp, the son of Alfred Krupp, who ensured the flourishing of his company in the sixties of the XNUMXth century by introducing the wedge system of the cannon breech. During the inspection of our Artillery Historical Museum, Krupp saw a XNUMXth century arquebus made by a Russian cannon master, according to legend, Andrei Chokhov himself. As the guide told me during my visit to this museum, Krupp tried his best to buy this weapon, offering very serious money for it.
                1. 0
                  30 August 2025 23: 41
                  and an inscription in Latin, the exact translation of which reads: "To the great lord Tsar and great leader Mikhail Fedorovich of all bears"

                  So, it is simply stupid to dispute the superiority of our masters.

                  What kind of Russian master would write such a thing to the Tsar, and in Latin?
                  1. -3
                    31 August 2025 08: 01
                    Andrey Lozin, and you visit the Artillery Museum in St. Petersburg, you will be able to see for yourself. And in general - was the study of Latin obligatory, even in parochial schools or do you think that gunsmiths were completely illiterate?
                    1. 0
                      31 August 2025 11: 24
                      the study of Latin was compulsory, even in parochial schools

                      This is where we can end.
  3. +6
    26 August 2025 05: 11
    The title is about current conditions, but they turned to the Russo-Japanese War. You can't look at history in the subjunctive mood. If only. If you don't have a solid naval base in the Far East, it's hard to talk about any victories. We learned a lesson from that war. But it's no good revisiting past wars. That way you can turn all the events of the past upside down. And the past is our present and future.
  4. +4
    26 August 2025 06: 09
    This was already a systemic crisis of both the civilization and the Romanov project.
    Which Romanovs? Holstein-Gottorp, one of the lines of the Oldenburg dynasty. Karl Peter Ulrich still had some Russian blood, but the rest of the descendants - nothing at all , the Germans who by chance found themselves on the throne, experienced an unaccountable fear of the Russian nobility, which had crashed two representative of this dynasty in the role of kings, almost killed the third and successfully got rid of the fourth, along with his family. Nikolashka's younger brother - Mikhail fought off the crown with his hands and feet, realizing that his nobility would throw him if necessary, had understanding.
    1. +2
      26 August 2025 07: 01
      No historian can give a 19% guarantee that Paul is from Karl Peter. So it is unknown who ruled Russia in the XNUMXth century.
      1. +2
        26 August 2025 08: 40
        Well, off the top of my head:
        Paul I is the great-grandson of Peter I
        Alexander l - great-great-grandson.
        These are the descendants of the Bagratids, although the maternal line (Anna is the daughter of Peter I) does not count as heritage.
        That's all. Nikolai l is a bastard, the son of the Goff-Fourier Babkin.
        In fact, it doesn’t matter, what matters is the personality itself and its ability to form a useful environment.
        1. +1
          26 August 2025 18: 58
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          These are the descendants of the Bagratids.

          yes, for what reason)))
          Quote: Victor Leningradets
          Nikolai l is a bastard, the son of the Goff-Fourier Babkin.

          Here you go. You remember Babkin, but you forgot about Sergei Saltykov. feel
          1. 0
            26 August 2025 21: 22
            Oh, Ivan.
            We have already corresponded on this topic.
            The last Romanov was Ivan V. And on the throne was the last Romanov - Anna Ioannovna.
            Peter was born as a result of a palace intrigue after Alexei Mikhailovich suffered a stroke. A boy heir was needed, and the Georgian Tsar in Exile, Irakli (in Russia - Nikolai) Bagration, came in handy. He was 198 cm tall, physically healthy, smart but hot-tempered. And the Heir was a success, a cross between a demigod and a devil.
            By the way, when they were choosing a bride for him and offered the daughter of Irakli II, who had regained the Georgian throne, Peter replied: you don’t marry sisters.
            1. +1
              27 August 2025 19: 36
              Quote: Victor Leningradets
              We have already corresponded on this topic.

              I remember))
              But if your version is correct, but if it comes down to it, then Pavel's real father is Sergei Saltykov. And he is definitely not Bagratid))))
              1. 0
                28 August 2025 06: 40
                Yes, anything could have happened with Katya.
                So what is needed here is a portrait of Pavel’s grandfathers, especially on his father’s side.
                However, this doesn’t change much, well yes - the German share is smaller, but the characters are the same.
            2. 0
              29 August 2025 13: 37
              Well, well. I always assumed it was Elizaveta Petrovna. Thanks for enlightening me.
              1. 0
                29 August 2025 14: 07
                Elizabeth I Petrovna - Petrov's daughter on the throne, what's wrong?
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. 0
                    29 August 2025 14: 15
                    Ah, that’s how Pikul calls her!
                    I was also interested in this question, Peter I stands out so much from the others. I came across this theory, and it looks very much like the truth.
                2. 0
                  29 August 2025 14: 15
                  Well, she should still be considered the last real Romanova, not Anna. Elizabeth ruled later, so to speak. And starting with Catherine the Great, they are no longer quite Romanovs.
                  1. 0
                    29 August 2025 14: 18
                    So Peter turns out not to be a Romanov (and thank God!), but the Bagratids are a royal family, ancient.
      2. +11
        26 August 2025 10: 28
        It seems to me that the most important thing for us is not who rules Russia, but how they rule. Either a Georgian who took the country with a plough and left it as a superpower, or a Russian from Stavropol who took a superpower and in three years surrendered and destroyed everything.
        1. 0
          26 August 2025 10: 45
          They forgot to mention Raika, either a Ukrainian or a Jewish woman
      3. +3
        26 August 2025 13: 26
        Quote: Gardamir
        No historian can give a 19% guarantee that Paul is from Karl Peter. So it is unknown who ruled Russia in the XNUMXth century.

        That's true, especially since Katya was weak in the front... but still, Pavel was similar in character to his father, just as unpredictable and a lover of everything Prussian.
        Nikolai l is a bastard, the son of the Goff-Fourier Babkin.
        Let's not get into conspiracy theories, no one was standing there with a candle in the bedroom, but the fact is that Friederike Charlotte Wilhelmina, the wife of Nicholas I, was the daughter of Friedrich Wilhelm III and the sister of Friedrich Wilhelm IV and Wilhelm I. And almost all representatives of the dynasty preferred to marry shabby German princesses, of which there were plenty and no one needed them, except for the Holstein-Gottorp.
        1. -2
          26 August 2025 21: 11
          Empress Maria is 185 cm tall and looks like a blooming woman. So she is not shabby at all. That is why when Pavel lost interest in his wife, she was consoled by a two-meter courtier. And look at the portraits: Konstantin is the spitting image of Pavel, the same goes for Alexander, they look alike. But Nikolai and Mikhail have nothing in common with their official father.
  5. +6
    26 August 2025 08: 02
    With each defeat the Russian army became stronger and stronger, and communications were shorter, the execution of the people's faith in the Tsar in January 1905 was this the Time of Troubles?
    1. -1
      29 August 2025 13: 39
      Due to what is it stronger? Shorter communications? And where do we measure these "communications" from?
  6. +5
    26 August 2025 08: 20
    Quote: Gardamir
    Recently, for fun, I asked about the successes of Yeltsin's rule
    And you go to YouTube to some liberal channel and find out everything about successes. Yeltsin's successes especially flourished in the 90s, but in the 2000s they didn't give finish blooming. Gorbachev and Chubais are also walking around as Great Reformers there...
  7. +6
    26 August 2025 08: 37
    Russia did not lose the war

    Well, thank God.
    Russia suffered a major strategic defeat, losing a significant portion of its positions in the Far East.

    So you didn't lose, did you?
    Moreover, Russia's weakness in the Far East allowed Japan to develop its success, which predetermined Japanese expansion in the following decades,

    So it was Russia's weakness that pushed Japan into war in China and with England and the US? What a turn of events...
    1. +3
      26 August 2025 11: 46
      Can't you see? "Stop! Danger zone! Brain work!..
      Mmmm, Boshetunmay..." (c) laughing
    2. 0
      29 August 2025 13: 42
      Quote: Trapper7
      So it was Russia's weakness that pushed Japan into war in China and with England and the USA?


      Partly, yes. Dizzy from success. Such a strong power was defeated. Again, the goodies from the concluded peace - half of Sakhalin, control over Korea. For Japan - a considerable acquisition. The samurai believed that they were uber-minors, that they could handle anything.
  8. -1
    26 August 2025 09: 40
    The author described popularized opinions about that war.
    It is worth considering that the lands where the theater of military operations was located were received by the Russian Empire less than 50 years ago, thanks to an alliance treaty with China. Well, at that time, many alliance treaties were concluded with China, especially the British with their opium.
    There is also nothing special to say about communications and connections with Central Russia, since it did not meet all the requirements. And it is generally accepted that the Trans-Siberian Railway was completed in 1916.
    The infantility of Kuropatkin as commander-in-chief. It was he who chose a defensive strategy with the involvement of the Japanese army on his territory. No active actions were taken.
    And the Japanese really had the most powerful fleet. Modern ships with turbines or liquid fuel boilers.
    And yet, Japan did not win this war. But Russia lost.
    1. +5
      26 August 2025 10: 13
      Quote: a.shlidt
      Modern ships with turbines or liquid fuel boilers.

      Not during the Russo-Japanese War)))
    2. +3
      26 August 2025 11: 44
      Quote: a.shlidt
      And the Japanese really had the most powerful fleet. Modern ships with turbines or liquid fuel boilers.

      This is already the Second World War, which Japan got into precisely because of liquid fuel. smile
    3. +8
      26 August 2025 11: 55
      Quote: a.shlidt
      And the Japanese really had the most powerful fleet. Modern ships with turbines or liquid fuel boilers.

      Cut the sturgeon.
      1. +4
        26 August 2025 14: 12
        Something really took me in the wrong direction)
  9. 0
    26 August 2025 10: 21
    The beginning of the twentieth century was generally not successful for us, to put it mildly. If it were not for the creation of the USSR, we might not even exist as such.
  10. -2
    26 August 2025 10: 24
    the leader of the Russian civilization and the Russian super-ethnos Joseph Stalin.
    judging by the standard of living of the Georgian superethnos: . the level of consumption in Georgia was 4 times higher own production. In the RSFSR, the consumption rate was only 0,75 of the production level.. who paid for this celebration of the lives of Georgians?

    Aaa, it was the Georgians who apparently worked 4 times better than the Russians...

    Or maybe someone has heard about... the famine in the Georgian SSR in the 1930s, when the breadbasket of Novorossiya and the black earth region were dying out, and the Georgian SSR, not prthe bread-winner didn't even have cards?

    etc. Or has anyone met in Arkhangelsk, filled with exiled Russian peasantry... Georgian dispossessed kulaks?
    1. +3
      26 August 2025 19: 02
      Quote: Olgovich
      consumption level in Georgia

      Colleague, to be fair, but the national outskirts, even under the tsars, often lived much richer than the Great Russian provinces.
    2. +3
      26 August 2025 19: 54
      Quote: Olgovich
      The consumption level in Georgia was 4 times higher than its own production. In the RSFSR, the consumption rate was only 0,75 of the production level.

      It took place...But what did we get after the establishment of the new liberal “social-capitalized” system?!
      The budget of the Chechen Republic for 2025 has been adopted.
      Projected total volume of revenues of the republican budget set in size 130,048 billion rubles, including:
      gratuitous receipts - RUB 103,736 billion;
      tax and non-tax revenues - 26,311 bn. Rub.
      But, not only that:
      The total amount of expenditures of the republican budget was approved in the amount of 138,036 bn. Rub.
      The projected deficit of the republican budget is 7,989 bn. Rub.
      The law comes into force on January 1, 2025.

      Why are there different rules in the country to ensure the existence of regions? Why do some receive gratuitous subsidies (surely this accelerates inflation), while others live without railway communication, without water supply and sewerage, without gas supply?
  11. -2
    26 August 2025 10: 43
    Quote: ROSS 42
    And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?
    The only thing I remember is: “Compared to 1913...”

    The first thing that came to mind was that during his reign, a state program was developed to create a Russian automobile industry - the state allocated considerable funds for this.
    1. -2
      26 August 2025 11: 07
      and began construction of the first automobile factories, including the future ZiL
      1. +6
        26 August 2025 11: 53
        and they also built a lot of the first aircraft factories, engine manufacturing developed by giant strides, the Russian Empire was ahead of Austria-Hungary in the production of aircraft engines, the Baikonur cosmodrome was built to implement Tsiolkovsky's projects, but it was not fate that prevented the revolution. And the first Baikonur was burned to the ground by the Kazakhs during the uprising in 1916. laughing
      2. 0
        26 August 2025 15: 18
        and began construction of the first automobile factories, including the future ZiL
        Well, to be precise, it wasn't the state that started it, but entrepreneurs (joint-stock companies), and the government of the Republic of Ingushetia gave them a loan, I remember, at 5% per annum with a deferred payment
        1. +1
          26 August 2025 15: 38
          Quote: Marrr
          Well, to be precise, it wasn't the state that started it, but entrepreneurs (joint-stock companies), and the government of the Republic of Ingushetia gave them a loan, I remember, at 5% per annum with a deferred payment

          The main thing in the construction of factories was not even the loan, but the state order for the products.
          Because without him, the Ryabushinskys would not have built: after construction, it would have turned out that the plant existed, but there was no demand, there was nothing to pay off the loan with. As Kazi wrote in the 19th century, advanced industry in Russia (at that time it was shipbuilding) is supported exclusively by government orders. Moreover, the Ryabushinskys had the example of Lessner, who showed the prospects of automobile manufacturing in Russia by closing the car plant and returning to torpedo production. smile
      3. +2
        26 August 2025 15: 20
        Quote: Trapper7
        and began construction of the first automobile factories, including the future ZiL
        And not Russo-Balt?
        1. 0
          26 August 2025 16: 42
          Car production at Russo-Balt was founded before the war
          1. 0
            28 August 2025 14: 27
            That's a bit of a mouthful. In fact, it's a screwdriver assembly.
            1. -1
              28 August 2025 15: 06
              Well, 1) screwdriver assembly (assembly of cars from supplied kits) is also auto production; 2) many parts and units at Russo-Balt were manufactured independently, at least this is what historian Dubovskoy reports.
              1. 0
                29 August 2025 13: 54
                1. Frankly speaking - not really. It can be collected in semi-artisanal conditions.
                2. Which units exactly? Engines? Tires and rims? Gearbox? Cardan? Still, you need to be more specific.
                Well, and the most important thing is the scale of "production". How much did they produce per month, that is, assemble?
                And how original was it?

                "Ivan Fryazinsky, who headed the automobile branch of the Russo-Baltic Wagon Plant, invited the Swiss Julien Potter to be the chief designer. And it was at his insistence that the Fondue brand automobile was chosen as the prototype for the first Russo-Balt.

                "The production volume of Russo-Balt automobiles during the plant's existence is estimated at 285 passenger cars with open torpedo bodies, 10 double phaetons, 17 limousines, 14 landaulets with closed bodies and 21 cars of other types. The total number of passenger cars produced at the Russo-Baltic Plant was 347 units."

                Not enough for such a big country, don't you think?
                1. 0
                  29 August 2025 14: 20
                  2. Which units exactly? Engines? Tires and rims? Gearbox? Cardan? Still, you need to be more specific.
                  For more details, read the book by historian Dubovsky.
                  Let me repeat: this was NOT an assembly from parts received from abroad.
                  The total number of passenger cars produced at the Russo-Baltic Plant was 347 units."
                  During its existence, 632 av-lya of various types were made.
                  Of course it was not enough, but it was AUTOMOBILE PRODUCTION
                  1. -1
                    31 August 2025 08: 55
                    Well, yes, together with freight. And it was not just a little, it was a drop in the ocean of real needs. If there was production, but the scale can hardly be called industrial.
                    1. -1
                      31 August 2025 14: 37
                      So no one claimed that the Russian Empire had an auto industry.
          2. 0
            28 August 2025 16: 27
            Quote: Marrr
            Car production at Russo-Balt was founded before the war

            And after it started it came to naught.
            Because of this, they started building six automobile enterprises at once, but they did not manage to do so before 1917. However, the groundwork was not lost. Although only two of the six enterprises (AMO/ZIL and YaAZ) were engaged in the purely automobile theme after the revolution, the others were also useful.
            1. -1
              28 August 2025 16: 54
              The production of cars at Russo-Balt came to naught because during the war the plant was evacuated and torn apart into several parts. And then the Bolsheviks finished it off completely
              1. 0
                28 August 2025 17: 00
                Quote: Marrr
                The production of cars at Russo-Balt came to an end because during the war the plant was evacuated and divided into several parts.

                I completely agree. With the clarification that the production of cars at RBVZ was never mass-produced. In total, if my memory serves me right, from 600 to 800 chassis of different types over all the years. Maybe a little more.
                Quote: Marrr
                And then the Bolsheviks finished him off completely.

                By that time there was nothing left to achieve request
    2. +2
      26 August 2025 11: 51
      Quote: Marrr
      The first thing that came to mind was that during his reign, a state program was developed to create a Russian automobile industry - the state allocated considerable funds for this.

      In the traditional Empire style - too little, too late.
      The credit and state order for cars from Ryabushinsky was issued only in the second year of the war. As a result:
      By the autumn of 1917, none of the enterprises had begun the planned production of automobiles. Only AMO had reached the highest readiness (up to 95%). By 1919, 1319 trucks had been assembled in Moscow from Italian vehicle kits.

      Moreover, in the report, if my memory serves me right, of the Russian Automobile Society on the issue of automobile production in the Empire, it was bitterly stated that problems begin already at the stage of source materials - Russia does not have all the grades of steel necessary for automobile production.
      1. 0
        26 August 2025 16: 03
        In the traditional Empire style - too little, too late.
        The loan and government order for cars from Ryabushinsky was issued only in the second year of the war.
        It seems the loan was 11,5 million rubles, I don’t know if that’s a lot or a little.
        But it was received really late - in February 1916, it was necessary to start scratching earlier.

        Before that, the government did everything possible to prevent the emergence of a domestic auto industry.
        So, objectively speaking, the Tsar is to blame for the fact that the auto industry did not emerge in the Russian Empire.

        By the way, can you tell me how to edit the text of the post to correct typos?
        1. +4
          26 August 2025 19: 06
          Quote: Marrr
          Before that, the government did everything possible to prevent the emergence of a domestic auto industry.

          there is such a thing. Because of duties, it was cheaper to import a car as a whole than to assemble it on site in parts. Accordingly, almost no one except individual enthusiasts bothered, and therefore localization did not arise.
          Quote: Marrr
          By the way, can you tell me how to edit the text of the post to correct typos?

          If immediately after writing - click the icon in the lower right corner in the form of a pen. If some time has passed, then no way request
        2. +1
          26 August 2025 20: 00
          Quote: Marrr
          By the way, can you tell me how to edit the text of the post to correct typos?

          Only within a minute after publication. I advise you to print the answers in Office and transfer them to the site... You can edit them at the same time...
  12. 0
    26 August 2025 14: 40
    Another screw-up by Mykolka Proserone "The Saint".
  13. +5
    26 August 2025 15: 19
    Oh! They've pulled out the mothball-smelling "super-ethnos" again... Apparently things are really bad for propaganda - they don't shy away from anything, everything is used... laughing
  14. +2
    26 August 2025 17: 39
    And the 5th column of the Russian Empire sent the Mikado a congratulatory telegram on the victory over Russia. It doesn't remind me of anything today. These were the achievements back then.
  15. +1
    26 August 2025 17: 52
    Quote: Trapper7
    Quote: ROSS 42
    And who today can remember the true achievements of the reign of Nicholas II?

    The sharp increase in population is one of the indisputable achievements of Nikolaev Russia. It is connected, among other things, with the development of rural medicine.


    Exactly the same surge was and is in Africa when the village gained access to basic medicine.
    I'm not even talking about the incredible growth in per capita income, by 300-400%, from $25 a month to as much as $150.
    I hope this does not mean that African countries and their leaders are powerful states with incredible geniuses at their head?..
  16. +2
    26 August 2025 17: 56
    Quote: Trapper7
    and began construction of the first automobile factories, including the future ZiL


    Excuse me, but have you read the report of the raider brothers Ryabushinsky about this plant?
    You probably assemble Moskvichs - does that also fall under the category of "built a plant"?
    1. -1
      27 August 2025 08: 31
      Have you read the report of the raider brothers Ryabushinsky about this plant?
      Where can I read it, can you give me a link?
  17. 0
    26 August 2025 19: 05
    Comrades, when I saw the epigraph, I expected the "signature" "and it was like this". Then, I see the style is completely different.
    Mistaken. It happens.
  18. +2
    26 August 2025 19: 56
    Despite the loss of Port Arthur, the destruction of the Pacific Fleet and failures in the Manchurian theater, Russia did not lose the war

    It was some strong dope.
  19. +1
    27 August 2025 19: 34
    The war of 1904 is interesting material, but in light of today's events it is completely useless, what analogies can be drawn, none, everything is different, well, except
    "The Tsar was silent as usual"
    So we are in the dark about what they are planning and what Trump is proposing, but the main question is WHAT have we won and at what cost, and was it possible not to make Ukraine stronger by providing it with preferences and cheap raw materials and money for development?
  20. 0
    28 August 2025 02: 56
    The knowledge of history by most forum members is impressive, but the absolute dominance of the History of individuals over the History of the country is also impressive.

    I am deeply convinced that personalities - rulers - are a reflection of the mentality of a particular generation: rulers form their knowledge from the external environment, from previous experience. That is, they start from the level that the country's population as a whole has (from the marginal to the elite). Hence, all transitions to personalities look... insignificant...

    A country, especially such a gigantic one, has a TRAJECTORY in which individual properties of the rulers influence it by a maximum of +/- 10%. Well, okay, in individual cases - I'll give 15%.
    And even the external factor for Russia/USSR/RF had much less significance in its trajectory than for the countries of Europe.

    The problem with forum members-historiographers is that they cannot evaluate the fabric of time more broadly than a couple of centuries, especially taking into account personal attitudes, which are again often subjective.

    And the material is a credit: parallels with SVO can be seen somewhere. Star.
  21. +1
    28 August 2025 14: 23
    Quote: bug120560
    So the best jet fighter of the 2nd generation MiG-15 had engines of the English company Rolls-Royce. However, no one says that it is not a Soviet machine.


    This, by the way, is not entirely true. Yes, 3 types of engines were purchased from this English company (Derwent-V with a thrust of 1590 kgf, Nin-I with a thrust of 2040 kgf and Nin-II with a thrust of 2270 kgf). But Soviet engineers made changes to the design and the MiG-15bis received the VK-1 engine with a thrust of 2700 kg.
  22. -1
    31 August 2025 08: 50
    Quote: your1970
    bourgeois Gazprom over 14 years - 34%


    It's not that bourgeois. 50% is officially owned by the state. And among the main shareholders, there are also very, very official people.
    And would Gazprom have achieved such success if it had not had the Soviet foundation - that is a big question.
  23. 0
    31 August 2025 16: 30
    How incredibly symmetrical everything is with the current "incomprehensible" war... Having read the title, I honestly thought that the article was about our current SVO and the dancing with tambourines of our quasi-elites around Trump and Whitkoff. And the consequences, at a minimum, will be the same. A contingent of Western powers throughout the "independent" territory under the guise of a security guarantee, maintaining anti-Russian sanctions, that's a no-brainer... But the fact that we will be prescribed to pay reparations for the restoration of Ukraine, they haven't told us about that yet. They are waiting for a ceasefire... And like a mantra, they pour the idea of ​​a ceasefire into us, convincing us that this conflict has no solution on the battlefield. The fact that the Russian army liberates 1-2 villages a day, that's kind of outside the scope. The fact that Ukraine has a crisis with replenishing reserves and has no resources to continue the war - everyone sees and understands this, except for our domestic "peace party". Everything is exactly the same as 120 years ago. And the combat generals will traditionally be accused of corruption. Who would have doubted it.
  24. 0
    31 August 2025 16: 48
    It is strange that no one writes about the parallels between the events of the Russo-Japanese War and the current SVO. Everyone has gone into a massive discussion about whether Nicholas II and Yeltsin were good. But the author gives a message in this direction. One passage about the role of Roosevelt in the Russo-Japanese negotiations is worth something.
  25. -2
    2 September 2025 09: 08
    Quote: Senior Sailor
    And it didn't end well...


    The rejection of this system did not end well. Don't put the cart before the horse. It was financial openness and the rejection of the state monopoly on foreign trade that brought the Soviet economy to the brink of collapse.

    It was not socialism that brought our country to collapse and disintegration, but the rejection of socialism. The collapse and disintegration quite naturally continued after the transition to a "market economy"... it would have reached its logical end if some processes had not been reversed, even under the Primakov-Maslyukov government, before the advent of VVP.
  26. 0
    5 October 2025 21: 30
    Despite the loss of Port Arthur, the destruction of the Pacific Fleet, and setbacks in the Manchurian theater, Russia did not lose the war (Mukden; Tsushima Tragedy). The land army only grew stronger and was able to launch a counteroffensive to drive the enemy back into the sea and retake its positions in Manchuria and Korea.

    Yes Yes!
    There is only one question: WHY?
    The Russian Revolution was probably the most "economic" war. Its entire purpose (for Russia, not for the personal self-interest of the Romanov family) was to ensure the cheap export of Russian grain, since traditional export routes were making it difficult to compete with Canadian and Australian (if I'm not mistaken) grain entering the world market.
    From the moment the First Squadron lost control of the sea without even trying to seize it, the war was already lost.