Military Review

When and who will replace the MiG-31

75

On the eve of the holiday, the air defense forces in the State Duma flared up a violent controversy dedicated to one of the most famous models of air defense weapons - the MiG-31 interceptor fighter. The Defense Committee, for the first time, was perhaps the first to attempt to tackle the fate of an armaments program. The first parliamentary hearings, aimed at influencing the problems of rearmament, were called "The resumption of production of the MiG-31: reality and prospects."


As follows from the title of the hearing, the defense committee proposed to resume production of the MiG-31 interceptor fighter, which was discontinued back in 1994. However, invited to hear the commander of the Air Force Viktor Bondarev and a member of the Military Industrial Commission under the government Mikhail Kashtan - did not support the idea of ​​parliamentarians. But, despite the failure of the initiative of deputies, the result of this event is still there. And the first experience of such hearings can be considered positive. He is positive, at least from the point of view that military construction questions that concern both society and parliamentarians receive qualified answers.

It is worth noting that in recent years we have witnessed an unprecedented wave of speculations on military subjects. And even more - a very successful information campaign, which aims to discredit and undermine the efforts that are being made to restore the power of the Russian Armed Forces. The goal of this campaign is to convince society of the futility of efforts to restore defense capabilities. The goal is to create public opinion that will be negatively adjusted to any changes in the military sphere and will put pressure on decision-making centers. Thus, a situation was created when the society itself opposed attempts to strengthen the defense potential of the country. Notice - a society that is set up to strengthen its defense potential and is patriotic in its views - was used for purposes that are directly opposite to their interests.

The fact that "everything is ruined and plundered," and the rearmament of the armed forces is only "drank and kickbacks," I think, almost everyone has heard or read. This information was always given from the most patriotic positions and caused the most sincere indignation. Few of the readers thought about how reliable the information was and how much its share corresponds to the actual state of affairs. After all, the basis of the information campaign has always been based on real facts, on the basis of which general conclusions were made and to which simple and accessible explanations were offered.

As an example, I recall the conversation with one acquaintance - a professional “advertiser”, so to speak, a representative of the “creative class” who is very far from understanding the problems of military construction and even interest in them. But he began to be interested after half a day at a friendly meeting we were talking about the transformation of the army. Two days later, having thoroughly climbed the Internet, he called and said something like: “... I don’t know how much everything they write is true, but from the point of view of the“ advertiser ”- all история about “inflatable army” is a very professional PR campaign. I just see it from my experience. ” It was about a large series of articles and stories on inflatable disguises that imitate military equipment. Such means make it possible to effectively mislead aerial reconnaissance vehicles, and air assault means to “shoot off” for nothing. The purchase of these funds was covered in a huge amount, but not at all in terms of their effectiveness or benefits. And with a strange message that, they say, “instead of a real technology, they buy an inflatable,” “all this is cheating,” “our army will become inflatable,” “an army on the threshold of new cheating,” etc. In the opinion of a person who understands the purpose and necessity means of masking - all this chatter is not worth it to somehow respond. In the professional eye of the "advertiser" - this is a planned media attack. But in the opinion of most readers, the absence of a clear explanation is evidence of the loyalty of the accusatory statements.

The success of this information war helped the fact that the military sphere in our country is traditionally considered to be a topic that is not open to public discussion and does not require justification before society of certain decisions. It turned out that the information war was conducted “at one gate” - to respond to informational blows, which were often frankly close and incompetent - they simply did not consider it necessary. And they remained in the public consciousness not contested, and therefore - true.

In a way, the deputies' consideration of the issue of resuming the production of the MiG-31 should also not be considered in isolation from the general information background. The issue of increasing the effectiveness of air defense is really difficult and really requires special attention. But do not blame deputies for the desire to resolve this issue in a somewhat panicky way. They are not isolated from the information war, but are in its very center, often being its objects. It is necessary to increase the capabilities of the Air Force and Air Defense. But it is unlikely by pouring funds and resources into the resuscitation of an excellent, but not the newest model aviation equipment, the production of which was lost almost twenty years ago.

And here I want to mention one very important point. Despite some emotionality of the deputies and a critical attitude towards the invitees - they heard and understood the arguments of the Air Force and industry.

The commander-in-chief of the Air Force explained the situation to the deputies calmly and with numbers in their hands. Estimation of costs for the resumption of production of the MiG-31 says that it was carried out, and the possibility of resuscitation of production came to mind not only to parliamentarians: cooperation will cost another 15 billion. This is at least 10 billion rubles. In the next armament program for 25 – 50 years, you can pledge the money and create a new aircraft. ” And then the commander-in-chief shared sensational information - it turns out that a new aircraft of a similar purpose is already being created by order of the Air Force! It will be created before the 2016 of the year and before the 2025 of the year it can begin to replace in the MiG-2020 formation.

As for today's day, no one is going to abandon the MiG-31. According to the commander in chief: “The Air Force is not against this aircraft one iota, this aircraft is needed by the Air Force, pilots love it. ... we will modernize the MiG in the version in which the Air Force needs it. " Now combat planes are being upgraded to a modified MiG-31BM. For the further modernization of the aircraft’s on-board equipment, development work is required. But, as Mikhail Kashtan stated, it is necessary to further improve this machine, including as a “supersonic distant fighter-interceptor capable of intercepting targets both at low and at high altitudes”. He did not rule out the transfer to subordination of the aerospace defense forces of some parts of fighter aviation, agreeing on this with the opinion of the deputies. But today, the main task he rightly called the restoration of airworthiness of all existing MiG-31 and their modernization (about 300 machines, of which more than half are derived from the line-up and require major repairs and restoration). Since it is impossible to modernize and extend the flight resource to infinity, and the need for a machine of a similar purpose is not disputed by anyone, it is worth agreeing that it is preferable to create a new car, extending the life of the old one. After all, to restore production of the MiG-31 after 20 years will also take considerable time and a lot of money.

Actually, the deputies agreed with this. Following the results of the hearings, the Ministry of Defense will try to determine how much the MiG-31 remains and how many of these vehicles the Air Force requires. The Ministry of Industry and Trade was instructed to stop the disposal of these aircraft. Well, the Military-Industrial Commission will have to think about ways to further modernize and restore the existing aircraft. Such a result of the hearings should be considered almost optimal. It is achieved through a dialogue between representatives of society, concerned about the problems of defense, and representatives of the armed forces and industry, who are better able to handle the current situation and are ready to explain it. Let the proposal of parliamentarians was not optimal, but they listened to it and stated their position. In this case, the last word will still remain for the Air Force, since it is they who should determine the composition and use of their equipment. But their vision of development and rearmament was intelligibly explained and grounded. And this will relieve speculation on this topic.

In conditions when the probable enemy relies heavily on the air component of his offensive power - it is simply necessary to strengthen the potential of air defense weapons and increase the fleet of fighter aircraft. Returning cars that, without having received a timely overhaul, are now simply turning into piles of scrap metal - this is a way to increase the size of the air force relatively quickly and relatively cheaply. In addition, the MiG-31 still has good prospects for modernization and improvement of combat performance. It should be understood that the aircraft itself is only a “platform” that lifts into the air and quickly delivers detection, communications and armament complexes to the right place. And the combat effectiveness of a fighter largely depends on the perfection of these systems, and not only on the flight characteristics of the carrier. Although the flight characteristics of the MiG-31 can be improved. For example, the commander-in-chief rightly noted that now the speed in 2,83М is unattainable for him (does not withstand the glass of the cockpit canopy) and the MiG-31 flies at the speed of 1,5М. But if its onboard equipment is improved and brought to a modern level, the vehicle will be able to remain an important part of fighter aircraft for a long time. This way of increasing combat effectiveness is used by almost all manufacturers of military aviation - the vehicles put into service as early as 70's receive new equipment and new weapons, and remain in service until now.

This, however, does not negate the need to create new machines. So far, the question of including the new fighter being created now in the armament program has been left behind the hearings (commander-in-chief of the Air Force believes that efforts should be concentrated on the new machine). However, its development is at a stage when it is still difficult to determine the cost and scope of design work. Hopefully, he will still enter the armament program when his face becomes more detailed. And enterprises and design bureaus will not bring it “on their own initiative”, as it happened quite recently.
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  1. Tatarus
    Tatarus April 19 2013 07: 02 New
    34
    The Ministry of Industry and Trade was instructed to stop the disposal of these aircraft.

    They also sent them for recycling? belay
    And how much interestingly cut, but how much is left?
    Well, let's shoot at least one of them. You are welcome sad
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim April 19 2013 07: 20 New
      +5
      Quote: Tatarus
      Well, let's shoot at least one of them. You are welcome

      What are you! We cannot, democracy does not allow us! request
      1. Tatarus
        Tatarus April 19 2013 07: 28 New
        15
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        What are you! We cannot, democracy does not allow us!


        Wow ... I came up with it. Let China ask them to be shot. As an affiliate, so to speak.
      2. k220150
        k220150 April 19 2013 08: 57 New
        +2
        Morgen? Morgen ... Tomorrow, tomorrow ... This is the "Politics" of modern power, how to steal today, and they will ask tomorrow. From whom? ....!?
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich April 19 2013 07: 32 New
      +9
      In a way, the deputies' consideration of the issue of resuming the production of the MiG-31 should also not be considered in isolation from the general information background. fool I am amazed .... the deputies are considering the question .... they found someone to ask! Three hundred loafers baking for their own good !!! people who have no de facto homeland! money-abroad, children-abroad, at home-abroad !!! and these- creating anti-people’s laws, consider strategically important issues regarding the security of their non-native country .... fool
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara April 19 2013 07: 34 New
        +6
        Yurevich! I would have dashed off the topic, but the writer is fake from me)))
        "An officer's glance at the State Duma deputies." On the weekend I will try to "give birth".
        1. Botanologist
          Botanologist April 19 2013 21: 38 New
          0
          I still do not understand when and who will replace the MiG-31 request
      2. TRex
        TRex April 19 2013 07: 46 New
        +1
        Andrew! You're wrong! How can people who call themselves "United Russia" pass anti-people laws? AS? From my region, there are a couple of repainted former members of the CPSU, who had to retire ten years ago, but did not have time ... One rogue with a Komsomol past and one Jew who, with cunning and intelligence, achieved a high position in this party.
        And you?
        1. igor67
          igor67 April 19 2013 07: 52 New
          +2
          Quote: TRex
          Andrew! You're wrong! How can people who call themselves "United Russia" pass anti-people laws? AS? From my region, there are a couple of repainted former members of the CPSU, who had to retire ten years ago, but did not have time ... One rogue with a Komsomol past and one Jew who, with cunning and intelligence, achieved a high position in this party.
          And you?

          It’s clear with the Komsomol member, but is a Jew a party affiliation or nationality? Damn it with cunning and wisdom, don’t vote for the Jews! Since a Jew doesn’t vote in elections, he will deceive all one, honestly, but also deceive his Komsomol members, some nonsense
          1. demeen1
            demeen1 April 19 2013 10: 01 New
            0
            There is no need to vote. Well, not everyone there is from United Russia, in every party there are enough pensioners and Jews, but there are still honest patriots who care about RUSSIA
      3. k220150
        k220150 April 19 2013 08: 52 New
        +1
        Can I ask a question? And who in the country is responsible for anything? There is no such! We are not 37 years old.
      4. Metlik
        Metlik April 19 2013 10: 05 New
        0
        No need to pour mud all together. I am not enthusiastic about the authorities, but the deputies are not the worst part of it. If in society there is no trust between the people and the authorities, then we will again receive 17 years.
    3. AndreyAB
      AndreyAB April 19 2013 08: 12 New
      0
      Serdyukov knows how much, but he is silent, not only do they want to recognize him as the injured party, so they will not put anyone to the wall, they will give coupons for enhanced nutrition, democracy, s.
    4. Nick
      Nick April 19 2013 22: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Tatarus
      and how much is left?

      The article says about 300 cars, of which more than half need restoration and thorough repairs ...
  2. Denis
    Denis April 19 2013 07: 09 New
    +3
    The commander-in-chief rightly noted that now a speed of 2,83M is unattainable for him (the glass of the cabin lamp cannot stand) and the MiG-31 flies at a speed of 1,5M
    Something stirs the commander, here is the TTX MiG-31M
    unbeatable speed at an altitude of M = 2,3, maximum flight speed at an altitude of 17 500m-3000km \ h, economic cruising speed M = 0,85, practical ceiling 20 600m
    range with a full refueling of internal tanks and four UR R-33 with a speed of M = 2,35 - 720 km
    MiG-31M fuel receiver retracts fully into the fuselage
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara April 19 2013 07: 29 New
      +4
      A bit wrong. The ceiling is at 31M 20400 m. And they unveiled it for 5 minutes to 3050 km / h. And so everything is correct.
      The characteristics of the MiG-31BM I described in a previous article.
      1. slavik_gross
        slavik_gross April 19 2013 09: 35 New
        0
        And problems with glass are somehow solved? to accelerate to 3M?
        1. Denis
          Denis April 19 2013 17: 10 New
          0
          Quote: slavik_gross
          And problems with glass are somehow solved?
          From there
          NEW CABIN LAMP
          Instead of a visor with a binding, standard for all MiG-31s, the MiG-31M has a non-binding curved visor
          -World Aviation №215
          something sparse information that was
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 20 2013 00: 05 New
            +1
            On BM, another option.
            I have no right to name.
        2. Gregazov
          Gregazov April 19 2013 23: 10 New
          0
          On tests A50 to detect altitude targets for the target, of course, the MiG - 25 flew. The flashlight burst once, but because of a violation of the flight range. The pilot was dropping too fast at a good speed. The MiG 31 didn’t fly for the target, and it was not interesting to take it out to intercept, because, taking into account the forward barrage of the barrage, relative to the A50, when the MiG31 was turned on, it saw a picture similar to the A50 (in the limited sector) and the withdrawal solved it BTsVM in an autonomous order.
      2. Denis
        Denis April 19 2013 17: 03 New
        0
        Quote: LiSSyara
        A bit wrong
        Perhaps, only then, not me, but World Aviation No. 215 — I try to turn the arrows request
        There is an overview of Mig_31M and B
        1. Lissyara
          Lissyara April 20 2013 00: 15 New
          +1
          Denis,
          MiG-31M, M2 compared to MiG-31BM machines of different classes.
          And with the "flashlight glass" everything is all right!
    2. 31-RUS
      31-RUS April 19 2013 09: 27 New
      0
      On the MiG-31 there were cases of cracks in the glazing of the lantern. C-200 glass was used, if my memory serves me, but where it was made not in the know, maybe not in Russia. In combat units, the limit on the number M = 2,65, 2,35 during normal flights, to reduce glider wear, but they usually flew on the ceiling or supersonic at M = XNUMX - less fuel consumption. When on duty at the DB or shooting at the firing range, restrictions on the number M were removed.
  3. nikolas 83
    nikolas 83 April 19 2013 07: 13 New
    +2
    They don’t want to resume production, like it’s expensive, damn it, but how much money was stolen? How many Serdyukov stole and laundered? With this money, you could probably create a whole regiment of planes and not one. recourseNo words. To the wall of all.
  4. horoh
    horoh April 19 2013 07: 13 New
    +5
    At the moment, there is nothing to replace this type of aircraft with, and we really need them and a lot !!
  5. Lissyara
    Lissyara April 19 2013 07: 31 New
    +6
    Quote: horoh
    At the moment, there is nothing to replace this type of aircraft with, and we really need them and a lot !!

    You're right! All vehicles in service will be brought to the state of BM.
    I don’t want to repeat myself, because the opus devoted this topic to 3 a day ago.
  6. Odysseus
    Odysseus April 19 2013 07: 33 New
    10
    Very naive, just a children's article.
    For even a child in Russia knows that the State Duma doesn’t solve anything at all. It’s just a center for stamping decisions made in the Presidential Administration.
    So all their "hearings" are just abstract blah blah blah on safe topics that have no effect on reality.
    In the case of the army, asking questions about who appointed Mr. Serdyukov to his post and was the ideologist of his reforms, what all the army reforms of the last 20 years were aimed at and who will be responsible for their results - the deputies "are not supposed to be ranked", however to show "patriotic concern" is necessary.
    Therefore, for "discussion" was taken such an abstract topic as the resumption of production of the MiG-31, because the production itself was safely destroyed at the beginning of the reforms 20 years ago, so now you can show "concern" about this even before the second coming.
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara April 19 2013 07: 36 New
      +3
      Odyssey, +++ all points.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 19 2013 21: 07 New
        0
        Quote: LiSSyara
        Odyssey, +++ all points.

        Thank you, I am looking forward to your article "An officer's view of the State Duma deputies" - if, of course, you have time to write it.
    2. igor36
      igor36 April 19 2013 08: 17 New
      -1
      But reforms were needed, it cannot be said that their ideology is wrong, because the whole world lives on outsourcing, and the soldier should be engaged in combat training, only the performers were chosen not by those patriotic, unempowered units, but by swindlers. The clan authority played a very cruel joke, now the Supreme Commander-in-Chief looks VERY pale and how the big question will be washed, I think that there isn’t enough soap or powder in the country.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt April 19 2013 14: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: igor36
        only now the performers have chosen not those patriotic, unempowered
        Regulatory authorities are obliged to constantly monitor the spending of budgetary funds. Constantly, at all stages of development, and not to start "cases" when funds through cunning schemes have dissolved in foreign accounts or "invested" in elite foreign real estate. When a corruption abscess has grown to indecent proportions, execution state programs are under threat and new cash infusions are needed. In the same vessel, mind you !!! In general, while the accounts chamber, financial intelligence, the UK, etc. will work, only on command -Fas! --- there will be no sense! And now about the deputies: their tax delays and the level of expenditures are not the same thing. And in this I see a huge harm to our statehood and evil ridicule and obvious short-sightedness.
    3. engineer74
      engineer74 April 19 2013 08: 25 New
      +2
      "The State Duma decides absolutely nothing here."
      And thank God! (with my absolute "0" ppm, as a techie, my brain was blown up) wassat
      On the Mig-31ne everything is so simple, a new interceptor is a necessary thing. But firstly when? Secondly, how many pieces? You can’t build 500 aircraft (Mig-31 series) in a couple of years, and 50-100, even very advanced interceptors, will not solve air defense tasks. I repeat:
      "It makes sense to restore, or rather to create anew, the production of the MiG-31 under the following conditions: to shovel the technology to reduce the cost price to 1/4 of the Su-35; to produce a large series of 500-1000 pieces; a large percentage (10-20) to equip air missiles. space (MiG-31D); develop ground infrastructure (network of airbases); production of AWACS aircraft in the required quantity (which does not affect less advanced avionics)
      In other versions, there will be money down the drain. "IMHO
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus April 19 2013 21: 24 New
        0
        Quote: engineer74
        shovel technology to reduce production costs to 1/4 of the Su-35

        It is completely excluded. MiG-31 is an expensive aircraft to manufacture and operate. Plus, a new avionics, which also costs a lot.
        Quote: engineer74
        produce a large series of 500-1000pcs.

        Good appetites smile But even for the Soviet economy, the production of 1000 Mig-31 would be difficult and expensive.
        And now, when the production of 10 aircraft per year is presented as a great achievement .... There is no need to talk about it.
        Quote: engineer74
        to equip a large percentage (10-20) with air-space missiles (Mig-31D);

        It’s a good idea, but only the Mig-31D was an experienced, and not a serial-ready aircraft with a serial missile. That is, you need to develop a missile.
        Quote: engineer74
        develop ground infrastructure (network of air bases)

        I agree, but this should be done regardless of the production of the Mig-31.
        Quote: engineer74
        production of AWACS aircraft in the required quantity (which does not warp the less advanced avionics)

        Again, I agree, but just the concept of using the Mig-31 suggested an autonomous search and actions in the group, since it was difficult to provide a continuous guidance zone from the Earth or from early warning aircraft in the North. Actually, for this, the MiG-31 was equipped with the best locator of the early 80s.
        By the way, in this sense, the Raptor is the "ideological heir" of the 31st.
  7. Tatar
    Tatar April 19 2013 08: 14 New
    0
    what experts will say about the idea. On upgraded MiG-31s ​​it will hang an ultra-long-range missile 40N6E s from the S-400 complex with the refinement of the marching accelerator; it is surveyed and guided by the U-50 (U-100) with its long-range locators. so I think the enemy’s planes can be brought down at a distance of 500-700 kilometers. and all other planes for finishing off. if we assume that the 40N6E missile weighs 2 tons with an Mig-31 load capacity of 8 tons, the number of these on planes is 4 pieces. the number of blinks on Wikipedia is 252. the total number of missiles is 1008, a strong rebuff to adversaries))
    1. Bronis
      Bronis April 19 2013 08: 53 New
      +1
      Not a specialist, but the idea is not worthwhile. Trite 40Н6Е weighs about 1600-1800 kg. (P-37 weighs 3 times less). Where to hang it on the MiG-31? Under the fuselage? The combat load is not only the total weight, but also the centering of masses + aerodynamics. The latter is most relevant for the MiG-31. I strongly doubt that the MiG-31 can pull it in principle. And the system - one plane, one rocket - is too expensive. And in order to finalize all this - money and time will have to kill a lot. C-400 was not in vain invented. Accordingly - to God the God, Caesar - Caesarean.
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara April 19 2013 09: 55 New
        +2
        Uh Lord! Let us not confuse God's gift with the scrambled eggs.
        For a "war horse" only R-37.
        And the "Zaslon" system was not designed for "Favorites" and "Triumphants".
      2. Tatar
        Tatar April 19 2013 10: 15 New
        0
        Well, in the first place, the s-400, although a mobile system, is not absolute, but you can’t instruct them in all directions. instant radar sees 320 km. almost to the launch area of ​​anti-ship missiles. and if the enemy’s aircraft are not allowed into this zone, it’s just about 500 kilometers outside.
        1. berimor
          berimor April 19 2013 18: 32 New
          0
          It is necessary to consider the air defense system in the dynamics of hostilities! The new air defense systems, although good and mobile, but ... Here is an example from real combat life. Enemy aviation, using an air defense breakthrough group in an air strike, makes a gap in the anti-aircraft missile group. Chapaev's question, what is the commander doing? And the commander, having air defense aviation, closes this "hole" by sending fighters forward into the watch zones in the air or links this group with air combat.
          Second example. The enemy concentrates the air assault force in a narrow area for operations with high density, which, of course, will not allow the air defense system to work out for all purposes. For this option, the commander decides to interact with the IA on the lines, heights and time.
          So to solve the problem of reliable coverage of the territory only by air defense systems (even by the most reliable and effective) is not realistic today.
    2. bootlegger
      bootlegger April 19 2013 11: 27 New
      0
      Why is this? In the development of KS-132.
      Type: ultra-long guided air-to-air missile
      Guidance: Inertial + active radar seeker
      Developer: NPO Novator
      Condition: Flight Tests
      Combat performance
      Launch range: up to 400 km
      Ultimate target heights: 3 to 30 meters
      Maximum target speed: 4 km / h (000 m / s)
      Maximum target overload: 12 g
      Mass and overall dimensions
      Length: 7,4 m
      Diameter: 0,51 m
      Wheel span: 0,75 m
      Starting weight: 750 kg
      Type of warhead: high-explosive directional
      The mass of the warhead: 50 kg
      Compatibility
      Available media: Su-30MK, Su-35 / BM,
      PAK FA (presumably)
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara April 19 2013 11: 42 New
        +1
        You compare the size of the media with the size of the rocket.
        And if you read the information from the network, do not powder the brains of the people!
        Starting weight: 750 kg
        Yeah, and another Makarov pistol, or APS.
        1. bootlegger
          bootlegger April 19 2013 12: 14 New
          0
          Compare:
          Mig 31
          TECH SPECS
          Crew: 2 person
          Length: 21,62 m
          Wingspan: 13,45 m
          Height: 6,50 m
          Wing area: 61,60 m²
          Weight:
          empty: 21820 kg
          with a full dressing: 39150 kg
          maximum take-off weight: 46750 kg
          fuel: 17330 kg
          SU 30 (intended for use by COP 132)
          TECH SPECS
          Crew: 2 person
          Length: 21,9 m
          Wingspan: 14,7 m
          Height: 6,36 m
          Wing area: 62 m²
          Weight:
          empty: 18800 kg
          normal takeoff: 24900 kg
          maximum take-off: 34500 kg
          ultimate take-off: 38800 kg
          fuel: 9640 kg
          Su 35BMalso alleged carrier for KS-132
          LTH:
          Modification of the Su-35 ("BM")
          Size of the wing, m 15.30
          Aircraft Length, m 21.90
          Aircraft height, m ​​5.90
          Wing area, m2
          Weight
          empty 19000 aircraft
          normal takeoff 25300
          maximum takeoff 34500
          11500 fuels
          fuel (with two PTB) 14300

          Both proposed carriers are even more compact and smaller in maximum take-off weight than MIG 31
          In the end, the P37 is only 100 kg lighter.

          Missile length: 4,20 m
          Fuselage Diameter: 0,38m
          Starting weight: 600 kg
          Warhead Weight: 60 kg
          Launch range: up to 300 km [1]

          And why were you so embarrassed that you began to compare everything with pistols? The total length of the COP 132?
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 19 2013 12: 55 New
            0
            Next, I explain.
            The troops of the Su-30СМ will be delivered as a combat training vehicle!
            Next - Su-35С will go to the troops.
            Let's not confuse with the onboard 901 and 902. And this is 2 completely different cars!
            1. bootlegger
              bootlegger April 19 2013 13: 11 New
              0
              And what, should this explain everything?
              Su-35S on mass overall characteristics is fundamentally worse than SU 35BM?
              I did not understand why 750 kg of rocket weight will become an obstacle for an aircraft with a combat load of about 8 tons?
              1. Lissyara
                Lissyara April 19 2013 13: 44 New
                +1
                Yes, worse.
                Government saves money.
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster April 19 2013 15: 15 New
                  +1
                  Could you be more detailed than that they are completely different?
              2. eagle11
                eagle11 April 19 2013 16: 26 New
                0
                Su-35S, with two or even four "weights" of 750 kg each, and if the tanks are full, maneuverability is at the 31st level, God forbid to enter "close combat". Then you need separate planes for separate tasks. In principle, of course, we need missiles with a wide range of carriers.
                1. evil hamster
                  evil hamster April 19 2013 19: 09 New
                  0
                  T10 with full tanks has a max operational 7g capacitive, so it’s certainly better than 31.
                  1. eagle11
                    eagle11 April 20 2013 03: 59 New
                    +1
                    Of course, I had to study the T-10 (to be more precise, the T-10-5, we had it as a visual aid), but I still memorized the characteristics of the T-10C.
                    Maximum operational overload with an estimated flight weight of 21400 kg:
                    - Pu max = 8,0 at M≤0,85
                    - Pu max = 6,5 at 0,85 <M≤1,25
                    - Pu max = 7,0 at M> 1,25
                    For weights that differ from the estimated flight weight, the overload is set based on:
                    m • Pu max = const = 171000 kg at M <0,85, but not more than Pu = 9,0
                    m • Pu max = const = 139000 kg at 0,85 <M≤1,25, but not more than Pu = 7,0
                    m • Pu max = const = 150000 kg at M> 1,25, but not more than Pu = 7,5
                    Take-off weight with missiles 2xP27 + 2xP73, with Gt = 9220 kg (γt = 0,785) - 27380 kg.
                    Therefore, in the best case, an overload of 6,2 units.
                    I considered the option of MAXIMUM LOADING (full tanks + missiles at 12 suspension points of which 2-4 of 750 kg), I don’t know the possibilities for overloading the Su-35, but I think they are not very different from the Su-27. Of course, the MiG-31 with its maximum Pu = 5,0; not a very maneuverable aircraft, but it can quickly get out of battle, using the advantage in speed.
                    1. eagle11
                      eagle11 April 20 2013 07: 17 New
                      0
                      I did not give the maximum Pu for various options, since all but the main one also have limitations, not to mention the asymmetric load.
                    2. evil hamster
                      evil hamster April 22 2013 17: 50 New
                      0
                      Quote: eagle11
                      Of course, I had to study the T-10 (to be more precise, the T-10-5, we had it as a visual aid), but I still memorized the characteristics of the T-10C.

                      I apologize for the inaccuracy, I had in mind the generalized family of the 27s, it is clear that different modifications decently differ from the base machine in terms of performance, but perhaps, apart from the Su33, the glider's strengths are approximately the same.
                      Quote: eagle11
                      Maximum operational overload .............
                      m • Pu max = const = 150000 kg at M> 1,25, but not more than Pu = 7,5

                      Thank you very much, exhaustively.
                      Quote: eagle11
                      Take-off weight with missiles 2xP27 + 2xP73, with Gt = 9220 kg (γt = 0,785) - 27380 kg.
                      You know, I was always sure (I remember from the institute) that the Su27 has a full gas station of 9600, though I can’t say what density of kerosene is, however I don’t argue, I just want to clarify.
                      Quote: eagle11
                      I have considered the option of MAXIMUM LOADING (full tanks + rockets at 12 suspension points of which 2-4 of 750 kg), I do not know the possibilities for overloading the Su-35, but I think they are not very different from the Su-27.
                      It’s just that you didn’t specify it in the previous message, so of course with full tanks with 11 points filled (correct if I’m wrong, but in my opinion the air-conditioning devices do not hang on the rear suspension point between the engine nacelles if the front assembly is busy), it is ironed with iron. Actually this is why there are usually so many weapons and do not hang up when working on air targets.
                      Quote: eagle11
                      but he can quickly get out of the battle, taking advantage of the speed advantage.
                      smile it’s hard to disagree.
                      1. eagle11
                        eagle11 April 23 2013 16: 32 New
                        0
                        To be precise, the full refueling is 9580 kg, the plane never flies with it :), it’s only on the ground. Starting the engine, taxiing, take-off, climb, etc. gobble up (according to RLE) a certain amount of fuel.
                        Correcting, it is hung on both suspension points, even an "energy" rocket. I no longer remember which series on the T-10S, there was a jamb in the armament control system, and when you pressed the combat button, two missiles descended at once (of course, they stupidly collided), so they hung the missile on only one suspension.
              3. Odysseus
                Odysseus April 19 2013 22: 11 New
                +1
                Quote: bootlegger
                I did not understand why 750 kg of rocket weight will become an obstacle for an aircraft with a combat load of about 8 tons?

                I believe LiSSyara means that in reality the KS-132 will not be used with the Su-30/35, PAK FA.
                1. bootlegger
                  bootlegger April 19 2013 23: 10 New
                  0
                  Well, yes. I understand. He is a genius, and nonsense designers in vain are designing the KS - 132 for existing media.
                  Hosanna...
                  1. Odysseus
                    Odysseus April 20 2013 01: 17 New
                    +1
                    Quote: bootlegger
                    Well, yes. I understand. He is a genius, and nonsense designers in vain are designing the KS - 132 for existing media.

                    Think for yourself. KS-132 missiles can only be used for interception tasks (it’s clear that when hanging on external pylons of such missiles, the EPR increases and the LTX decreases) and only for aircraft with a powerful locator (if your locator captures a target at a distance of 200, then which one use of missiles striking at 400?).
                    1) Su-30-will be used as a combat training, and its locator is rather weak for such missiles.
                    2) PAK FA-inside the missile compartment will not fit, and hanging 2 such fools on external pylons. If even this is technically possible, it is not meaningful. Imagine what kind of "stealth" will be then
                    3) It is theoretically possible to suspend the Su-35, but the practical feasibility and effectiveness of this can be assessed only by knowing the real LTH of the aircraft and the real Irbis capabilities shown in the tests.
                    For me, the idea of ​​equipping the Su-35 with long-range missiles is quite robust, but the KS-132 is still too much ...
                    1. bootlegger
                      bootlegger April 20 2013 01: 36 New
                      0
                      So no one is currently using unaccompanied media. Naturally, the A 50 should be present as a coordinator and radar.
                      Radar A50

                      Range detection of air targets:
                      torches of ballistic non-strategic missiles: 800 km (optical means)
                      bombers: up to 650 km
                      fighters: 300 km [8]
                      cruise missiles (EPR = 1 m²): 215 km
                      'Range of detection of ground targets:
                      single target type of launcher of operational-tactical missiles: up to 300 km
                      group goals such as "column of tanks": up to 250 km
                      Range detection of marine targets (with EPR 250 m²): to the radio horizon
                      Number of escorted air targets: up to 300
                      Frequency range:
                      radio technical intelligence: 0,5 ~ 18 GHz
                      radio reconnaissance: 50 ~ 500 MHz
                      Number of guided fighters:
                      Command Hint: 12
                      side guidance: 30

                      And planes are just carriers and mobile rocket launchers. If bombers are found at a distance of 650 km, then they must be intercepted at an adequate distance.
                      You do not ask why the C400 is mounted on a car and why does it need rockets with a range of 400 km? 40N6E for example?
                      1. Lissyara
                        Lissyara April 20 2013 02: 03 New
                        +1
                        Now I will write fairy tales about A-50U!
                        "Radar station A50"
                        Where is such a word?
                        Butleger, do you know how much this target machine grazes, or have you read the Internet? I put my soul into it!
                      2. bootlegger
                        bootlegger April 20 2013 11: 17 New
                        0
                        Did you mean the radar stationed on the A 50? I’m not finding fault with your terminology? What do you have against the interaction of this aircraft with fighters
                        Let's do it without primitive tricks, huh?
                    2. Odysseus
                      Odysseus April 20 2013 08: 23 New
                      +1
                      Quote: bootlegger
                      So no one is currently using unaccompanied media. A 50 should naturally be present as a coordinator and radar

                      In theory, yes, but in practice we have only 2 A-50U aircraft, and when the A-100 will be unknown.
                      So in the near / medium term, there is no need to talk about the possibility of target designation for interceptors with not powerful locators using the A-50/100.
                      Quote: bootlegger
                      If the bombers are detected at a distance of 650 km, then they must be intercepted at an adequate distance.

                      Real data always differs from advertising data. What you have given is, so to speak, data is "ideal polygon". For example, you will not see beyond the radio horizon, so Bumblebee will detect a bomber 650 km away only if it (the bomber) hangs somewhere in the stratosphere about 20 kilometers you understand that this will not happen in reality.
                    3. bootlegger
                      bootlegger April 20 2013 11: 34 New
                      +1
                      KS 132 is created for the future and it is clear that no one will bring down a single target at the limit of visibility, as well as 40H6E.
                      These are expensive missiles and will apparently be designed for conditions when a massive attack occurs and the intentions of the targets are extremely clear.
                      And the fact that there is no A 100 now, and KS 132 will not be tomorrow.
                      The lack of full-fledged technical capabilities today to implement this, as it does not explain why it is necessary to have a 40N6E missile, and KS132 does not make sense?
                    4. Lissyara
                      Lissyara April 20 2013 19: 59 New
                      -1
                      C A-50U. Tu-160 was found at a distance of 823 km. By "warmth". Then the team from the side went "to the rise of fighters."
        2. queen
          queen April 19 2013 15: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: LiSSyara
          The troops of the Su-30СМ will be delivered as a combat training vehicle!

          As far as I understand, the Su-30SM is multi-purpose, and not combat-training as the Su-27UB. The assignments are different.
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 19 2013 15: 20 New
            0
            Exactly as a combat training. "Lettech" lift "to the wing".
            On Yak-130 kursachi will learn.
          2. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 20 2013 00: 10 New
            +1
            The main task is to let fly teach him to fly to 35.
  • gleb49
    gleb49 April 19 2013 08: 15 New
    +1
    A good plane, but how many solutions there are ... And if the mechanic is kind ...
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov April 19 2013 09: 12 New
    +1
    Dear forum users, who knows, answer the question, why can’t you make an interceptor based on the T-50. And why develop a new model, when it is possible to make cheaper on the basis of the T-50 and better in terms of performance characteristics than the Mig-31BM (or another modification of the ABVGD)?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak April 19 2013 09: 36 New
      +3
      Yes, we would have to launch the T-50 in the basic version. A few more years will be spent on improving what went into the series. And only then, you can think about modifications to the interceptor, and then, anyway, you need a crew of 2 people - this is your first serious processing.
    2. engineer74
      engineer74 April 19 2013 09: 37 New
      +4
      Why does the country's air defense interceptor (the main objectives of the Kyrgyz Republic and their carriers) need over-maneuverability and stealth? Sorry to ask a question. smile The main advantages of an air defense interceptor are its powerful radar and RVV-DB, the first puts an end to its stealth, the second to super maneuverability, i.e. on the basic properties of the 5th generation, except for cruising supersonic, as a result, nothing good will come out of the T-50.
      And do not forget about the price. hi
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak April 19 2013 10: 07 New
        +1
        in the end, nothing good comes out of the T-50

        I think so, the era of specialized aircraft such as the MIG-31 is drawing to a close. And the T-50 is just a platform. Maybe there will be an option and an interceptor, with a modified plumage, a place for the 2-th crew member and weapons system and avionics.
      2. eagle11
        eagle11 April 19 2013 10: 48 New
        +1
        The trouble is that fighters are used not only to intercept, but also to perform other tasks, such as gaining dominance in the air, covering the battle formations of attack aircraft. In Soviet times, there was a plane for each task, as the Air Force and Air Defense lived separately. MiG-31, a specialized aircraft, is practically sharpened for work in the northern expanses. once the whole north and east was covered by 31 (Monchegorsk, Talagi, Kotlas, Amderma, Omsk, Alykel, Bratsk, Yelizovo, Sokol, Chuguevka;) At the same time, there were even more maneuverable interceptors and front-line fighters. Now, there are fewer fighters at times, and it so happens that the weaknesses of the 31st outweigh all the advantages. For example, the cost of operation. When he served in 54 K air defense, in 98-02. we had three IAPs, Besovets, Lodeynoye Pole in the 27th and Gromovo in the 31st. It was a tough time, so it was just thundering all over kerosene, the 31st only needed 1100kg to take off, while the 27th, for the departure (depending on the exercises), spent 3200-3800 kg. True, the 31st flew then, well, very little.
    3. Kasym
      Kasym April 19 2013 12: 16 New
      +1
      VohaAhov. In my opinion . The main advantage of an interceptor is speed. The duralumin construction, which is used on all aircraft except the MiG-31-titanium-steel, withstands a maximum of 2,5 M. So the T-50 will not be able to replace it by TTX. Alternatives to the unique MiG-31 are not yet visible on the horizon.
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara April 19 2013 13: 54 New
        +4
        Dauren, a little wrong.
        The main goal of the interceptor is to "demolish" from the sky what is "hanging" there.
        Speed, ceiling are not the main parameters.
        The MiG-31 has a "driver" and a weapons control officer.
        Oddly and stupidly, the management officer is dominant.
        R-33, R-27, etc. in his "household".
        And by the way, this is the first car in the world where an officer of the second cockpit commands the missile weapons.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym April 19 2013 15: 18 New
          +1
          Thank you, Comrade General, for the clarification! Therefore, I believe that the presence of people like you on the site makes it invaluable for fans of military equipment. I proceeded from the following considerations: what is the gene. designer Belyakov R.A. took as a basis such a "heavy" construction - after all, many designers called one of the main problems "the struggle for weight" (for example, Yakovlev in his book "The Purpose of Life")? Therefore, I thought that he put speed at the head of the corner - otherwise it would be possible to take a duralumin structure, and therefore more useful load (fuel, rockets). Therefore, it is faster to reach a distance from which you can use weapons on the enemy. But this is my personal opinion.
          With great respect, Dauren!
          1. Lissyara
            Lissyara April 20 2013 00: 02 New
            0
            Dauren !,
            Yes, everything is simple.
            The ears grow from the MiG-25. Only the 31st became a thought-out machine, or rather a "killer" machine.
            MiG-31BM is generally "candy".
            We’ll talk about Yakovlev cars when I’ll be in your homeland.
  • Marconi41
    Marconi41 April 19 2013 09: 37 New
    +4
    Yes, to hell with it with the resumption of production! Let at least the old ones not be cut and modernized (restored). And then a whole regiment stands in Kamchatka, and then only 4 pieces fly! Remaining with expired resources, breakdowns, etc. And they don’t even hide it from potential partners !!!
  • Whitehorse
    Whitehorse April 19 2013 10: 46 New
    -5
    Nobody and never. Well, it’s obvious - a normal person will not change a taskless good for a taskless good. Although Cheburashki can. The breed is like that.
  • vvh
    vvh April 19 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    And how much interestingly cut, but how much is left?
    In total, about 1500 Mig-31s were produced. 300 left ...
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara April 19 2013 12: 57 New
      0
      We look at the article a week ago. About MiGs.
      This is off their 1500 was?
      Or have the Chinese license stamped?
      1. eagle11
        eagle11 April 19 2013 16: 18 New
        0
        Yes, they were made a little over 200.
  • runway
    runway April 19 2013 16: 07 New
    -2
    Whatever the successful MiG-31, but this is the plane of its time. It's time for a new technique. Hypersonic speed time. We are already talking not about 3Max, but about 10Max. At such speeds, the human body does not withstand the loads. Why are Americans in full swing developing (and are already testing!) Unmanned interceptors and shock hypersonic systems, and we are going to renew the aircraft removed from service? Well, there are simply no words to express outrage at the actions of the current Air Force Commander-in-Chief! How quickly he calculated everything .... 25 billion here, a total of 50 billion rubles ... Where did such a deep knowledge of the account come from? Is it from the time when he collected bonuses from the pilot Sulim and his comrades?
  • Strashila
    Strashila April 19 2013 16: 22 New
    +1
    Money ... and equipment ... garbage. The most difficult thing is who will work on this equipment. The aircraft factory is not a scarab in garages, specialists need to be prepared for years ... and who will go to work? How to interest him? In Soviet times, there were programs for the development of specialists at enterprises, then there was a state pocket, and they didn’t save on this ... but is it necessary for a private trader? Budget workers of all stripes and salaries and housing programs are heated ... and the worker, who will support what?
  • runway
    runway April 19 2013 16: 30 New
    -1
    No matter how successful the MiG-31, but this is an airplane of its time. The time has come for hypersonic speeds. We are already talking about 10Max speeds. The overload arising at these speeds, the human body does not withstand. Why, while the Americans are in full swing developing unmanned aerial interceptors and hypersonic strike systems, are we going to resume production of an aircraft that has been withdrawn from service? Well, there are simply no words to express their indignation at the actions of obviously narrow-minded people who proposed this!
    How easy it was for the Air Force Commander to figure out how much money would be needed for this:
    "All cooperation will cost another 25 billion. This is at least 50 billion rubles. In the next armament program for 2016-2025, you can pledge this money and create a new aircraft."
    Where did you get such deep knowledge about money? Not from the time when I collected bonuses from the pilot Sulim and his comrades?
  • Vyacheslav
    Vyacheslav April 19 2013 20: 13 New
    0
    Why upgrade, not a new plane? Yes, because there is no time. Not without reason in a hurry they suddenly remembered the army, turning a blind eye to other problems. The fight against corruption, especially in the army and the defense industry, as well as with the fifth column, etc. All this resembles the second half of 30 years. Our rulers know something that you can only guess about ....
  • s1н7т
    s1н7т April 19 2013 21: 00 New
    +1
    "It is worth noting that in recent years we have seen an unprecedented wave of speculations on military topics ..."
    And the article is the same laughing