Military Review

Machine "Grad": was there a boy?

41
The Kalashnikov assault rifle in the bullpup layout is no longer a rarity. Many have done this with success. weapon and will continue to do, in order to reduce the size of one of the most common machines in the world while maintaining a reasonable barrel length and the maximum number of original parts. So much so that individual manufacturers even produce kits that allow them to make bullpaps of a classic layout of weapons. Among all this diversity there is one sample that raises a lot of questions, and even its reality is sometimes questioned. It is about the "hail" ghost.


There are a lot of versions, as this automaton “surfaced” for the first time, and from the photographs of these weapons it is possible to say with confidence that the sample is clearly made in different places, the only thing that unites this weapon is that it was created on the basis of the Kalashnikov machine gun in the bullpup layout. The name of the machine was assigned to one of the samples, which was seized, according to the worldwide network, somewhere in the “hot” nations, and where it is not specified. On the withdrawn sample there was a rather neat inscription on the butt plate of the “Grad” butt, and there were also serial numbers. A little later, it was reported that people who were engaged in relatively mass production of these weapons in the territory of Vladikavkaz were detained. Also, a fairly popular version is that this weapon was made on the territory of Ukraine, in general, neither the end nor the edge of the new "facts" and versions are visible to this day, in fact, because this weapon was called the "ghost machine" like he is, and no one produces it.

It is noteworthy that, already on the basis of a neatly made inscription on the back of the gun butt of the weapon and the applied serial number, they immediately rushed to conclude that the weapon was clearly factory-made. Here I would like to immediately note that if you look closely, you can see an obvious reworking of the original Kalashnikov assault rifle into a bull-pap, and reworking with minimal changes to the design. So, you can pay attention to the fact that the usual AK is taken, the handle is taken out in place of the forearm, but what remains is hidden by a rather ill-conceived detail that does not even stand for the shoulder on the trunk line, which could have a positive effect on the accuracy of fire. Naturally, they did just that, because otherwise they would have to make a stand for sighting devices so that they could be used without arching the neck in unnatural corners. Nor should we forget that very often the artisanal weapons, the production of which was single, also had serial numbers stuffed simply from the head. And even more often on such weapons it was possible to find inscriptions indicating that the sample belonged to the products of a well-known company, and the quality of such weapons very often indicated the opposite.

There are even several versions of which cartridge was standard for the weapon. This is the list of 5,45x39, 7,62x39 and 9x39 ammunition, and, apparently, the information about the 6x49 machine gun appeared from the Internet community’s submission; For some reason, the “legendary” knives filled with mercury are remembered. In my opinion, with the calibres of this “ghost machine” it is easy enough to figure out what kind of AK or even some details could be obtained for those cartridges and vargani sample, although even in the version under 9х39 it is difficult to believe, but what can they not good tool ...

Some options generally cause a smile, since in them, apparently, holding the second hand is planned for a rather low-volume PBS, after what shot with intense fire you can smell the kebab can be argued in the comments under the article. In general, it seems to me that this sample can be counted as a very big stretch, and generally how a sample can be considered a serial one, if it is not made by a separate enterprise or a group of enterprises, but even in well-equipped underground workshops. Let even the automata be with serial numbers, which may even be needed not for beauty, but for some kind of accounting and not at all the fact that they did not come from an AK donor, although it is unlikely that people involved in this will leave their “native” number .

In general, we are collecting any information on this sample. Perhaps, I made wrong conclusions somewhere or missed something. Nevertheless, the fact that even underground manufacturers of weapons, and domestic ones, paid attention to the bullpup, says that for many compact dimensions more important are the flaws that even such a simple remake of the weapon gives.
Author:
Photos used:
guns.allzip.org
41 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. bazilio
    bazilio April 18 2013 09: 06
    +3
    "holding with the second hand is planned for a rather low-volume PBS, after which a shot under intense fire you can smell the kebab"

    I think that with intensive shooting the first hand will obviously not be cold, since it was replaced in place by the fore-end, very close to the chamber.

    Probably this machine gunner throws up when shooting, the axis of the butt and the axis of the barrel channel are pretty much spaced apart from the vertical.

    Thanks to the author !!
  2. self-propelled
    self-propelled April 18 2013 09: 09
    +7
    "... There is also a fairly popular version about the fact that these weapons were made on the territory of Ukraine ..."
    apparently from here legs grow
    Vepr automatic machine - made in Ukraine

    although the Ukrainian version has a more or less normal forend and butt
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 18 2013 09: 19
    +2
    It looks like from the Thunderstorm (OC-14-4А 04) they distorted.
    1. avt
      avt April 18 2013 09: 31
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      It looks like from the Thunderstorm (OC-14-4А 04) they distorted.

      Not really some kind of ghost, exotic and it looks like a semi-artisan remake of Kalash. Wherever the author dug it. + For indefatigability. laughing
  4. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 18 2013 09: 31
    +3
    Apparently, handicraftsmen (Ukrainian or not) really focused on the Thunderstorm, it turned out to be a kind of underdeveloped Thunderstorm. Imitating a Ukrainian bullpup would be much more difficult. In my opinion, the Ukrainians have made the most successful of the "Kalash" bullpops at the moment.
    1. Ch0sen1
      Ch0sen1 April 18 2013 16: 28
      +3
      And in my opinion, the Finns got a decent alteration repeat
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 18 2013 19: 05
      +2
      Quote: MRomanovich
      In my opinion, the Ukrainians have made the most successful of the "Kalash" bullpops at the moment.

      I like bullpup from our company "Zenith" more:

  5. the47th
    the47th April 18 2013 09: 35
    11
    In the United States, there are almost thousands of "kits for bucking something", many of which give the impression of a sample not from a factory, but from a scientific laboratory.
    1. aszzz888
      aszzz888 April 18 2013 13: 27
      +1
      Exactly. Like Star Wars
    2. Raphael_83
      Raphael_83 April 19 2013 20: 57
      0
      Sci-fi laboratory and from the stage of the T4Salvation set! hi
  6. the47th
    the47th April 18 2013 09: 39
    0
    In the United States, thousands of "bullet kits" are offered for almost everything in a classic layout, and many AKs after alteration cannot be distinguished from the factory model. For example, a beam gun based on the Saiga.
  7. marshes
    marshes April 18 2013 10: 48
    0
    In short, Bull Pap from Kalashnikov-garbage is understandable, we need to come up with a different mechanism.
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn April 19 2013 12: 42
      0
      Well, why? The automation is quite good, but the fact that all of the AK bulpup samples go along the knurled track and none of them are made with 0 using only the theoretical principles of automation with a gas pipe, a gas piston and a rotary shutter is a fact. In short, All AK Dad’s Bul is modernization, not re-created.
  8. avt
    avt April 18 2013 11: 31
    +2
    Quote: marshes
    In short, Bull Pap from Kalashnikov-garbage is understandable, we need to come up with a different mechanism.

    They made decent Tulaks, I just like the ADS on its basis, a beautiful engineering solution, but I don’t speak about operation, I don’t know.
    1. the47th
      the47th April 19 2013 08: 59
      0
      The ADS was made on the basis of the A-91M, but it is not very similar to the AK. More precisely, it does not at all look like it, it was originally developed by bullpup.
  9. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 18 2013 13: 25
    0
    "Borzoi" riveted the same on the spot. But this one will be somewhat more technological. We ought to ride it.
  10. marshes
    marshes April 18 2013 13: 30
    +5
    Here is an interesting barrel, although the type of automation is not known. ASH-12.7 (12.7 by 55 mm)
    one of the experimental versions of the ASh-12.7 assault rifle with a three-shot revolver-type grenade launcher and a silencer
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 23 June 2013 21: 54
      0
      Subbarrel 20mm or 25mm?
  11. marshes
    marshes April 18 2013 13: 31
    +3
    Cartridges for him.
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn April 19 2013 11: 32
      0
      From left to right:
      Armor-piercing, with a heavy bullet, TWO-bullet, with a light bullet.
      TWO-WOOL WTF ???
    2. dustycat
      dustycat 23 June 2013 21: 53
      0
      Is it interesting for 410 caliber is the same?
  12. marshes
    marshes April 18 2013 13: 32
    +4
    Viktor Zelenko, chief designer of TsKIB SOO for small arms and cannon armament, demonstrates an ASh-12 assault rifle chambered for 12,7x55 mm
    1. Ch0sen1
      Ch0sen1 April 18 2013 16: 37
      +4
      But what about the return of this monster, especially in automatic mode? the cartridge looks rather harsh what
      1. avt
        avt April 18 2013 16: 50
        +4
        Quote: Ch0sen1
        But what about the return of this monster, especially in automatic mode? the cartridge looks rather harsh

        FSBshnikov should be asked, they ordered this monster for themselves, probably decided that Val would be small. But of course, God forbid, you can catch it in a bulletproof vest. laughing Here you look at the cartridge and it is already uncomfortable, I do not want to think about the impact.
        1. wasjasibirjac
          wasjasibirjac April 18 2013 18: 15
          0
          so in this machine the cartridge is practically from the exhaust. then the return is enduring.
          1. Ch0sen1
            Ch0sen1 April 18 2013 18: 38
            +2
            Only the exhaust fires from the bipod and single, and then from the shoulder and the queue ....
            1. the47th
              the47th April 19 2013 09: 05
              +1
              I wonder which of these will be the turn to beat? For this we have RMB.
              1. cth; fyn
                cth; fyn April 19 2013 11: 30
                0
                Encourages the thought of exoskeletons.
                1. Raphael_83
                  Raphael_83 April 19 2013 21: 00
                  0
                  Yeah. If you catch a doublet from such a "double-bullet" - without an external skeleton with attached armor - most likely you will remain without ribs, and the liver will be completely in "small splashes" ... what
  13. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 18 2013 16: 27
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    In short, Bull Pap from Kalashnikov-garbage is understandable, we need to come up with a different mechanism.

    bullpup from Kalash is no worse than from others, and in some places even better. Another thing is that it is not advisable to rebuild it into a bullpup for a number of reasons, they are known to everyone and I think it’s not worth repeating, and it's too late to do it.
    ADS was mentioned here, this is a really promising bullpup, even if not in the two-average variant, but in the original A91M. I'm only afraid that he will remain forever "promising". The two-medium one may go in a small series, but the basic A91M will most likely become a museum piece if there is no interest from foreign customers.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 18 2013 20: 36
      0
      I don’t understand the bullpup fanatics. The classic scheme is perfect. If you need more compact - then ultrasound, ingram, etc. Well, what to fence the garden?
  14. Ch0sen1
    Ch0sen1 April 18 2013 16: 33
    +1
    The Crazy Hands Club is just some wink
  15. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 18 2013 16: 38
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    Here is an interesting barrel, although the type of automation is not known. ASH-12.7 (12.7 by 55 mm)
    one of the experimental versions of the ASh-12.7 assault rifle with a three-shot revolver-type grenade launcher and a silencer

    The heroic machine gun. Fifty years from now, if they do not create compact laser or other means, it will be very popular for arming robots. Now, due to the physiological characteristics of man, his circle of users and applications will continue to be limited, although in demand.
    1. marshes
      marshes April 18 2013 17: 16
      +3
      Quote: MRomanovich
      Now, due to the physiological characteristics of man, his circle of users and applications will continue to be limited, although in demand.

      I would like to see in version 7.62 * 54 or 7.62 * 51 if it works out here the beast the car will be. smile and in other running calibers, maybe it will not be bad, even maybe the smooth barrel is not bad, it can turn out, the main topic is to develop.
  16. bullet
    bullet April 18 2013 22: 41
    0
    first sample
  17. bullet
    bullet April 18 2013 22: 42
    0
    second sample
  18. Argon
    Argon April 19 2013 00: 53
    0
    Yes, the device is clearly not serial, but not cunning. The level of instrumental production of some kind of large defense enterprise where working with firearms is not uncommon, for example, ARP. Judging by the presence of optics, general layout decisions; it was not made for war. For bandyukov, the approach is too serious. I think the legs of this product grow from those times when there was still a union, but many have already tried on presidential regalia of independent states. Yes to the author RESPECT, I look forward to continuing.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 23 June 2013 21: 49
      0
      Rather, the level of a good tool shop of a machine-building factory of the size of the district and above ... Maybe some car factory.
      Interesting shushrifel.
      Subject interesting.
  19. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 19 2013 05: 02
    +1
    Quote: Ch0sen1
    And in my opinion, the Finns got a decent alteration

    I agree, Finnish is not even bad, but he, like Groza, is mostly "disguised" Kalash, Ukrainians have improved the management, which makes their brainchild and differs from others for the better.

    More on the use of bullpups. I can’t say anything, but it seems to me that a bullpup machine with optics would be very useful for the second person in the sniper pair. At least less fatigue with prolonged wearing of bullpups only contributes.
    But as the main weapon bullpapam is still far from the classic.
  20. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 19 2013 05: 08
    0
    Quote: MRomanovich
    Quote: Ch0sen1
    And in my opinion, the Finns got a decent alteration

    I agree, Finnish is not even bad, but he, like Groza, is mostly "disguised" Kalash, Ukrainians have improved the management, which makes their brainchild and differs from others for the better.

    More on the use of bullpups. I can’t say anything, but it seems to me that a bullpup machine with optics would be very useful for the second person in the sniper pair. At least less fatigue with prolonged wearing of bullpups only contributes. As a sniper weapon, bullpups cannot yet compete with the samples of the classic layout, due to their design features, although if the trigger pull is to be done properly, then why not.
    But as the main weapon bullpapam is still far from the classic.
  21. georg737577
    georg737577 April 19 2013 20: 05
    +1
    Here is a bullpup made from scratch. And to remake "crucian carp into a pig" and also call "new
    development "- strange, at least ...
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr April 19 2013 20: 48
      +2
      complex "Automatic + grenade launcher".
      In my opinion, our ADF will be more interesting.

      1. Raphael_83
        Raphael_83 April 19 2013 21: 04
        +1
        ADS, of course, is good, but the bourgeois version "with mother-of-pearl buttons" of glamor. Although ... what's the difference from what to get a bullet recourse
        Wrap me up with a computerized sight! And don't forget the batteries in the kit.
  22. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich April 19 2013 20: 19
    0
    Quote: georg737577
    Here is a bullpup made from scratch. And to remake "crucian carp into a pig" and also call "new
    development "- strange, at least ...

    this handsome man (F2000) has already been run in by bandits of all stripes in real combat conditions, it would be interesting to know a general assessment of how he showed himself.
  23. Orion_134
    Orion_134 12 October 2013 23: 21
    0
    By the way about ASh 12.7, this barrel was ordered by the FSB after Beslan (the Kalash has too little stopping effect, even after several dads the stoned terra still "kicked" for some time) ASh is planned to be used with special cartridges of reduced power, like those used in AK with PBS