Tanks in the Chechen war

83
In the 1990s, the Russian army became involved in an endless series of new Caucasian wars in which Tanks although they did not play a decisive, but still quite noticeable role, although most often they had to act in the most inappropriate conditions for tanks - in street battles.

We will not go into the political background of the conflict, but go straight to the description of military operations. The first significant event was the attempt to assault Grozny, undertaken on November 26 on 1994 by anti-Dudayev opposition forces. The decisive role in this operation was played by the tanks - 35 T-72А, transferred to the oppositionists from the warehouses of the North Caucasian Military District. If it were not for these tanks, then the assault could not take place at all, so we can say that they became the key factor, although not in the sense that the tank forces play in army-wide operations. This operation failed miserably because Dudayev and his entourage were well informed about all the plans of the opposition. The attacking groups were met with concentrated fire, and only 4 tanks managed to escape from the city, the rest were either destroyed or abandoned by crews.

T-72B1 2 Tank Company 276 MSP before going out to support the assault groups leading the battle on Noah Bauchidze Street (in the foreground, Sergeant E. Lyapustin's 441 tank). For all the fights in Grozny, the tank has never been hit by an RPG. January 1995


The failure of this attempt to fight with “little blood in a strange land” pushed the Russian leadership to take more active steps, and on November 29, the Russian Security Council approved the plan of the military operation to restore constitutional order in Chechnya. In early December, several military groupings were created that were to enter the territory of Chechnya and in the event of the Dudaev’s refusal to lay down weapon take by storm Grozny. At Mozdok, a group of 15 battalions was formed, which had about 230 BTR and BMP, as well as 40 tanks. A group of 11 battalions with the 160 BTR and BMP and 30 tanks was advanced from the Vladikavkaz sector. The strongest group of 34 battalions, which had about 700 units of armored vehicles, including more than 100 tanks, advanced from the Kizlyar area. Already one enumeration of the forces involved shows that a hull scale operation was carried out.

However, from the very beginning everything did not go as planned, only to advance to Grozny’s troops needed 16 days instead of 3 as planned. As a result, Russian Defense Minister P. Grachev only 27 December ordered the beginning of the storming of Grozny December 31 with a mandatory report to the Russian President on taking the city on January 1 in 00.01. As we see, the rotten tradition of the Russian-Soviet-Russian army to take cities to the red dates of the calendar over the past two centuries has not been shaken at all. Then we take Pleven to the king's birthday, then Kiev - on November 7, Berlin - on May 1, and now a New Year present ... "The birthday cake made from stuffing human brother prepares the sovereign brother ..." These lines were written in 1877 year, but I'm afraid they are relevant today.

Combat positions 324 msp at the breeding farm at the time of blocking the road to Grozny. The command of the federal troops at the third stage of the storming of the Chechen capital provided for complete control over the city from the south. February 1995


Approximately 10 000 fighters who defended Grozny were concentrated around 15 000 federal troops. They were supported by 230 tanks and 879 light armored vehicles, several hundred guns. However, there were street battles, where this superiority in technology was largely leveled by the positional advantages of the defenders. At the same time, in the West, they continue to be in an unshakable confidence that the Russians were concentrating enormous forces to storm the Terrible. For example, a study by the Danish Royal Military College categorically states that more than 38 000 soldiers participated in the assault. Of course, from Copenhagen everything is seen much better.

Before the attack on the city after the heavy battle, the airport of Khankala was busy, but, unfortunately, the command did not draw proper conclusions on the results of this battle. It seems that for unknown reasons, the generals counted only on the symbolic resistance of Dudaevs. The storming of the city was carried out according to an underdeveloped plan, and once again the command did not have a reliable connection with its troops, which cost the assault dearly. In general, in the troops, the plan for the rapid roll of mechanized columns to the city center was regarded as an adventure. Subsequent events showed the validity of this assessment.

The spares of the SPTA saved the T-72B1 tank from hitting the cumulative jet into the engine compartment. Terrible. January 1995


The storming troops were divided into 4 groups in directions. In 06.00, the North group launched an offensive. It was part of the 131-I Maikop Motorized Rifle Brigade. Having lost several tanks and armored personnel carriers, the column nevertheless broke through to the railway station, where the brigade occupied the all-round defense. The “Northeast” group, having applied a successful diversion, rushed relatively freely into the city, where it also took up defensive positions. The Vostok and Zapad groups did not fulfill the tasks assigned to them. At the same time, if the North-East group set up checkpoints along the way, which ensured, however difficult, but still a connection with the rear, the North and West groups were surrounded.

The worst thing in all of this was that it was the Soviet troops who at one time got a lot of experience in fighting in the city. Königsberg, Breslau, Berlin showed how to act in such cases. But this experience was completely forgotten. And another gross error was made - it was not at all necessary that the Russian troops gave the initiative to the enemy. Instead of systematically sweeping the city using superiority in firepower, assault groups turned defensively. At one time, a well-known British admiral, who himself had fairly fought, said: “Moderation in war is the greatest idiocy. Ruthlessness, tirelessness, persistence - that is the key to success. " All these principles have been violated.

Tanks in the Chechen war
A hit from the top floor of the RPG grenade into the commander’s turret T-72B1 pierced the armor and hit the tank commander. Terrible. January 1995


As a result, Dudayev had the opportunity to pull down his most combat-ready units to the center of the city and proceed to the elimination of the surrounded groups. In a particularly difficult situation, the 131 Brigade found itself, which by January 1 had lost all its armored vehicles to about 16.00. At the same time, it should be said that the new-generation tanks (T-72 and T-80) showed noticeably better survivability than the tanks that fought in the Middle East in 1973 year. A single hit of an RPG projectile or ATGM was not enough to disable it. As a rule, at least 6 — 7 hits were required, and a record case was recorded when the tank withstood almost 20 projectiles. Dynamic protection systems worked extremely well. But the BTR and the BMP turned out to be completely defenseless. The important role played by self-propelled artillery in such battles was again confirmed, since the weight of the 152SZM “Acacia” SAU 2SMM projectile was noticeably greater than that of tank guns, and had a markedly greater destructive effect when shooting at buildings.

After regrouping and approaching reinforcements, the assault continued. Already about any anniversary dates we were not talking. In general, the organized resistance of the militants in Grozny was finally broken only by March 26. This assault cost the Russian army about 6000 people killed and wounded. Irreversible loss of armored vehicles, according to the Main Automobile and Armored Directorate Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, comprised 49 tanks, 132 BMP, 98 BTR. The number of damaged but repaired tanks remains unknown.

The lack of protection of the stern of the tower in the form of a spares box led to the penetration of armor and the death of the tank commander in the battle for Grozny. January 1995[/ Center]

One should not think that the fighting in Grozny went on continuously for the 3 of the month; they fall into several stages, separated by interruptions of official truces and temporary respites. The first phase ended on January 18 after the taking of the presidential palace, when the northern and central parts of the city came under the control of the Russian army. Only after this did the offensive begin on the southern part of Grozny, which was conducted with the strongest artillery support. There were days when our artillery fired missiles at enemy positions up to 30 LLC. So it was necessary to act from the very beginning.

In August, the battles broke out again in Grozny’s 1996, although this time they were relatively short. 6 August militants broke into the city. They did not attempt to storm the strongholds of the federal troops, but simply isolated them and subjected them to mortar fire, waiting for the defenders to surrender. However, by energetic actions of the command of the federal troops, it was possible to prevent the worst case scenario. Although the battles were still stubborn, 11 August was broken through the corridor to the Government House, which lifted the siege from this important point. And by 13 August a decisive break was reached. Federal troops began to push the enemy in all directions, and the militants began to withdraw from the city. By the time of the signing of the August 14 truce, the city was under the control of the federal troops. Losses at the same time amounted to all 5 tanks, 22 BMP, 18 BTR. We will not even comment on the chatter of some Western newspapers about the hundreds of tanks burned.

Trophy tank T-72A, captured by federal troops from illegal armed groups during the fighting in Grozny. For the characteristic towers, painted white lime, these cars from the feds got the nickname "white crows". After the repair, the tank was used by the North group in battles on the Minute Square. January 1995


During the Second Chechen War, Grozny had to be attacked once again, but now armored vehicles were used in the minimum necessary quantities. The assault began on 11 on December 1999 of the year. This time the main emphasis was placed on the artillery and air support of the assault infantry groups. As a result, the anti-tank defense system, thoroughly prepared by the militants, turned out to be simply useless. The advance of the federal troops was slow, but they suffered only small losses. A significant role in this operation was played by installations of volley fire TOC-1. Realizing that they could not oppose anything to such a gradual advancement, on January 31, the militants tried to break out of Grozny under the cover of a snowstorm. They suffered heavy losses, but some of their forces still managed to escape.

Burnt in the battles for the Terrible tank T-80B and KSh R-145. January 1995


T-72B (M) 74 Guards. OMSBR hit by an RPG shot in the unprotected gap between the CDS of the turret chase and the nadgusenichny fuel tank (apparently, they tried to hit the tank with the second grenade in the turret unprotected by the fuel tank). The crew of the tank was killed. January 1995


Broken sniper shot panoramic sight. January 1995
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  1. +56
    April 18 2013 08: 24
    ETERNAL MEMORY OF THE GUYS PROTECTING THE HOMELAND
    1. beech
      +19
      April 18 2013 15: 21
      it was not a war, it was a game of war, with the smallest success of our troops negotiations took place immediately, moratoriums were announced and the militants managed to leave ... this war is a monument to how soldier life is valued in Russia and how they betrayed their own army, as they threw it to their own devices and how they mocked it !!!
      I advise you to watch a series of doc.films. Chechen trap
      1. +16
        April 18 2013 17: 48
        The complete truth, I want to add the opinion of my classmate, an officer who passed the first and heroically died during the second war. He said treason, starting from the highest echelon — the generals (not all of course, of course, but there were traitors) and ending with individual officers and soldiers in the warring army. So we need to pay more attention to the moral qualities of people who are trusted in the country's defense. And we had a big failure in this matter.
        And you know, I agree with him.
        1. beech
          +4
          April 18 2013 21: 36
          what infuriates most * the behavior of human rights defenders * and deputies who urged soldiers to surrender during the first assault ... some surrendered (the ammunition is not endless) and fell into slavery ... Now all these comrades are free, provided with money up to the 7th generation and they don’t have anything done. In addition, they yelled about the genocide of the Chechen people, but in fact there was genocide of the Russian people: for 10 killed, 9 Russian civilians
          1. bask
            +4
            April 18 2013 22: 48
            but armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles were completely defenseless. Once again, the important role played by self-propelled artillery in such battles was confirmed, since the weight of the 152 mm ACS 2SZM Akatsia shell was noticeably greater than that of tank guns and had a noticeably greater destructive effect when shooting at buildings.

            About the betrayal and inept-criminal actions of generals and politicians, it is said quite a bit. Not only one ....... did not suffer punishment for her crimes.
            But I'm not talking about that. They remembered the experience of the Second World War. But there, when storming cities, they showed excellent self-propelled guns with assault guns, with anti-shell armor. ISU-152,, St. John's wort,
            And now the experience of 2 Chechen wars is taken into account? No, it is not taken into account. The same BMP-2,3, BTR-80/82. And not one assault gun of 152 mm caliber.
            If tomorrow is a war. We will fight by the same technique as in the storming of Grozny in the 94th ???? Conclusions have not been made until today. The new Armata will appear no earlier than the 20th year in the troops.
            Based on the available T-72, T-80 armored hulls, it is simply necessary to create an assault gun, cal 152 mm. WITH ANTIMOIN AND ANTI-LOAD ((RPG, ATGM)) RESERVATION.

            The armored body of the self-propelled gun was welded from rolled armored plates 90, 75, 60, 30 and 20 mm thick. On the machines of the first modifications, the frontal part of the hull was an armored casting; subsequently, as more stable rolled armor was available, the design of the frontal part of the hull was replaced by a welded one. Armor protection differentiated, protivosnaryadny. Armor plate felling installed at rational angles. Compared with the previous model of self-propelled guns of the same class and purpose - SU-152 - the ISU-152 armored hull was slightly higher. The main armament is the 152,4 mm ML-20S howitzer gun. Gun recoil devices were protected by a fixed cast armored casing and a movable cast spherical armored.
            1. Alexander Kirov
              +3
              April 19 2013 03: 00
              The idea is true for all 100! Simply, I would remove the tower from the terminator and put in the fighting compartment of VENA 2s31, with DZ armor and KAZ type BARREL. 120 mm, low ballistics, a thermobaric flamethrower charge through the barrel and 120 mm mine, and ARKAN and God knows what you can launch. The crew is in an armored capsule, in the tower there is an assault rifle, warheads in a niche with a knock-out roof, the ability to work on remote control. Well, take me ...
            2. Scythian 35
              0
              April 20 2013 15: 44
              Good practices in the Red Army were from the Battle of Stalingrad. But one thing happened !!! 1945, during the storming of Berlin, Marshal from .... Comrade. Zhukov drove two tank armies into Berlin in columns (most of them were not T-34s), where schoolchildren and pensioners (faustpatronniki) burned them safely, without any benefit. The assault continued with the participation of guns of different types and assault groups. After the capture of Berlin, when the debriefing began, it came to losses Stalin was oh ... from the difference in losses between the first Ukrainian front and the first Belorussian front. The human losses of Joseph Vissarionovich were of little concern, but he was very jealous of the losses of armored vehicles and aviation. And when he found out how much Comrade Konstantinovich had fucked up the latest tanks with the abbreviation "IS" Stalin was furious, for Georgy Konstantinovich things took a bad turn. And in order to somehow get out of this Zhukov began to repeat, and in unison with him the entire command of the front, since no one knew how it all could end, that the introduction of tanks into Berlin was justified and necessary. I don’t know whether Stalin believed it or not, but the thesis "ABOUT JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ENTRY OF TANKS IN BERLIN" remained and took root.

              So this is what I’m leading to, it’s not necessary to strictly judge Russian officers and generals in stupidity and betrayal, my opinion is because it was taught by the Marshal from .... and the great warrior comrade. Zhukov already taught our officers, and, referring to this knowledge, they planned and conducted military operations. If something is wrong, please correct !!!
        2. Scythian 35
          0
          April 20 2013 15: 47
          Good practices in the Red Army were from the Battle of Stalingrad. But one thing happened !!! 1945, during the storming of Berlin, Marshal from .... Comrade. Zhukov drove two tank armies into Berlin in columns (most of them were not T-34s), where schoolchildren and pensioners (faustpatronniki) burned them safely, without any benefit. The assault continued with the participation of guns of different types and assault groups. After the capture of Berlin, when the debriefing began, it came to losses Stalin was oh ... from the difference in losses between the first Ukrainian front and the first Belorussian front. The human losses of Joseph Vissarionovich were of little concern, but he was very jealous of the losses of armored vehicles and aviation. And when he found out how much Comrade Konstantinovich had fucked up the latest tanks with the abbreviation "IS" Stalin was furious, for Georgy Konstantinovich things took a bad turn. And in order to somehow get out of this Zhukov began to repeat, and in unison with him the entire command of the front, since no one knew how it all could end, that the introduction of tanks into Berlin was justified and necessary. I don’t know whether Stalin believed it or not, but the thesis "ABOUT JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ENTRY OF TANKS IN BERLIN" remained and took root.

          So this is what I’m leading to, it’s not necessary to strictly judge Russian officers and generals in stupidity and betrayal, my opinion is because it was taught by the Marshal from .... and the great warrior comrade. Zhukov already taught our officers, and, referring to this knowledge, they planned and conducted military operations. If something is wrong, please correct !!!
          1. warm
            +2
            April 20 2013 18: 15
            Quote: Scythian 35
            So this is where I lead

            you would have read something more serious than Suvorov-the storyteller, according to the history of the Second World War, and would not have written frank nonsense.
            1. Scythian 35
              0
              April 21 2013 23: 01
              and where did the armament of the two tank armies go? and secondly, if you don’t read Suvorov, then you don’t have to sculpt it anywhere. Please show me where on the topic of the loss of armored vehicles in the Berlin operation and about the ins and outs of this story, wrote Suvorov ??????? And the "history of the Second World War" or the fairy tales of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union where the fighter "Ivanov skillfully with a bayonet and a rifle butt destroyed twelve, wounded seven and took prisoner before the platoon of Nazi invaders" I stopped believing in my childhood when the propaganda system was still working, by the way, like your Suvorov.
              1. warm
                0
                April 22 2013 11: 24
                Quote: Scythian 35
                and the armament of the two tank armies where did it go?

                which ones?
                1. Scythian 35
                  0
                  April 22 2013 14: 49
                  For the most recognized 1 and 2 guards tank armies. Apart from two tank corps - officially and two more not officially.
                  1. warm
                    -1
                    April 22 2013 14: 54
                    these are the two tank armies that were introduced due to the strong resistance of the Zeelov heights? so they didn’t go to Berlin ...
                    and for example the 1st GTA lost "only" 150 out of 650 vehicles during the Berlin operation ...
                    so learn the materiel.
                    1. Scythian 35
                      -1
                      April 25 2013 07: 53
                      What are you talking about !!! The figure is ceiling !!! If there is no minimum of knowledge then at least google. Even with the .. wikipedia this fact could not be silenced. Here is a reference to the backbone of the 1st Guards Tank Army - the 1st Guards Tank Brigade, if the guggle provides you with an insurmountable obstacle !!!
                      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-я_гвардейская_танковая_бригада
                      henceforth I ask you not to troll and do not rush with "smart" numbers, materiel for you is an empty sound.
      2. Grishka100watt
        0
        April 19 2013 23: 26
        with the slightest success of our troops, negotiations took place immediately, moratoria were declared

        Affected by the proximity of Berezovsky to power in Russia. He was the secretary of the Security Council and at the same time had connections with the Chechen diaspora.
        I advise you to watch a series of doc.films. Chechen trap

        Better yet is Chechnya: Beyond the War. Although there are odious people, it gives some logical idea of ​​what happened. What can not be said about the film "The Chechen Trap", although I have reviewed it 4-5 times for a more complete understanding of what happened.
    2. +1
      April 19 2013 10: 14
      I would like to analyze the use of armored vehicles during the storming of Grozny 1999-2000
  2. +5
    April 18 2013 08: 25
    Still, in the city, the use of tanks is extremely difficult. The front for him is all 6 directions. And not all areas are equally protected.
    1. +4
      April 18 2013 09: 17
      The use of tanks is good in the presence of infantry cover and protected rear areas!
  3. +21
    April 18 2013 08: 26
    "Against about 10 militants defending Grozny, about 000 federal soldiers were concentrated." - The balance of power at the beginning of the operation is a failure. The command of the campaign did not read the combat manuals. For a successful offensive operation, a 15-fold superiority is required, and in urban combat conditions, 000-fold.
    1. Denis_SF
      +12
      April 18 2013 12: 29
      With the commanding abilities of some generals, a 20-fold advantage would not give anything, only the number of losses increased.
    2. +6
      April 18 2013 12: 33
      On day-tv there is a broadcast on this occasion. The multiple advantage is simply the statement of one of the military commanders. This is not provided for in combat manuals. As they say, you can not number, but skill.
      1. broker
        0
        April 18 2013 13: 43
        Here it is
        http://topwar.ru/26896-chislennoe-prevoshodstvo-ne-vsegda-zalog-pobedy.html
    3. -2
      April 18 2013 12: 36
      totally agree .... at least three times.
    4. +2
      April 18 2013 18: 18
      Quote: Canep
      and in urban battles 10 times.

      6 times. So in the charter.
  4. zambo
    +10
    April 18 2013 08: 30
    The worst part in all of this was that it was the Soviet troops that at one time had extensive experience in fighting in the city. Königsberg, Breslau, Berlin showed exactly how to act in such cases. But this experience was completely forgotten.
  5. +25
    April 18 2013 08: 59
    Nobody forgot anything. We forgot that the war in Chechnya began at the time of the collapse of the state. EBN president, Berezovsky secretary, Pasha-Mercedes minister, all the bastards often infiltrated generals.
    What experience is there. Dynamic protection, and then not always hung. Say, no time. In Grozny it is necessary to hurry. SWAT hurries ... request
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 19: 50
      One of not many sensible comments on a highly controversial article. hi
  6. +18
    April 18 2013 09: 11
    The main disadvantages were not in technology, but in a moronic high command, lack of coordination between units, outdated communication systems, and the participation in the assault of young, unshooted fighters, some of whom had never themselves shot from an automatic rifle.
  7. +23
    April 18 2013 09: 47
    Regarding the assault on November 26, 1994 ... Adventure. Ill-conceived and criminal. Mediocre and wasted military equipment, and most importantly human lives. All those who planned this assault should have been punished ...
    A lot has been written and expressed about the storming of Grozny. And I just don't see the point of repeating ...

    Eternal memory to all those who died in Chechnya ...
    1. +12
      April 18 2013 10: 27
      There was a lot of information that the tanks used by the Russian tankers recruited by the FSK exploded themselves from an INTERNAL explosion i.e. the explosives were planted in advance. I think London Gallows could tell a lot about this. Eternal memory to the fallen Russian soldiers.
      1. Denis_SF
        +4
        April 18 2013 12: 31
        There was no ammunition for anti-aircraft machine guns, which in the conditions of urban combat (with a large number of high-rise buildings) and the lack of infantry cover is already criminal.
      2. I found only two links to your statement ..... "We thought that tanks explode from our cries of" Allahu akbar "! but in reality it turned out to be a provocation of a long, terrible war ... ”(allegedly from Kadyrov’s statement) https://www.proza.ru/2013/02/02/53 give the exact source of your information.
    2. +3
      April 18 2013 19: 34
      This was one of the first betrayals at the top in a series of 1000 of the following.
  8. +8
    April 18 2013 10: 25
    eternal memory to our fallen guys soldier
  9. Drappier
    +9
    April 18 2013 10: 45
    here they are, real heroes ...
  10. +5
    April 18 2013 10: 47
    .... This assault cost the Russian army about 6000 people killed and wounded. Irretrievable losses of armored vehicles, according to the information of the Main Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, amounted to 49 tanks, 132 infantry fighting vehicles, 98 armored personnel carriers. The number of damaged but repaired tanks remains unknown ...
    That's how Russia is fighting .... on its own land ..... with the meat of its people, as in the Second World War. Nothing changed. This is Pyrrhic victory. And it’s very embarrassing for the Russian people, who chose such commanders and leaders. It is especially pleasant that the children of millionaires and billionaires also fought shoulder to shoulder with children from villages and cities.
    1. +4
      April 18 2013 12: 04
      Yes you really? AI WHAT GOOD FELLOWS, but you can find out the number of these heroes part numbers, well, at least five names.
      1. Denis_SF
        +3
        April 18 2013 12: 33
        Yes you really? AI WHAT GOOD FELLOWS, but you can find out the number of these heroes part numbers, well, at least five names.

        Sarcasm? She .. did not hear.
        1. 0
          April 18 2013 13: 28
          No B ... L ... I am serious.
    2. Avenger711
      -1
      April 18 2013 16: 54
      It is a shame that such illiterate people like you pour dirt on WWII commanders.
  11. Axel
    +4
    April 18 2013 10: 54
    Regiment TU-95 equip ODAB-500PM, and then tanks can be. Why do so many people send death?

    Maps were only medium-sized (1:50 thousand, or even 1: 100 thousand), and the commanders were not given precise instructions about what would happen. Moreover, the tankers were not given ammunition for machine guns to respond with fire to attacks from above, from the zone beyond the reach of the guns, they did not explain what to do and to whom they obey, some cars were painted with white stripes on the roofs for the convenience of non-existent air support, so it was easier for the enemy aim.
    1. beech
      0
      April 18 2013 21: 40
      the Maykop brigade generally went to the wrong place, ended up in a trap ... and all because they could not find normal maps
  12. +5
    April 18 2013 11: 17
    It’s just that in the beginning the Chechens were not taken seriously at all. Everyone thought that when they saw the tanks, they would just scatter home, throwing their weapons. Everything turned out to be much more serious
    1. +5
      April 18 2013 15: 11
      Quote: Den 11
      the Chechens were not taken seriously at all. Everyone thought that when they saw the tanks, they would just scatter home, throwing their weapons. Everything turned out to be much more serious


      Well, these are those who thought so, who were not next to them "across the river".

      I am absolutely sure that as long as the "generalisimuses" (and the presidents too) will not receive real sentences for crimes like the "capture of Grozny", "Komsomolskoye", "Lebedyansky's peace", etc., they, future fathers, soldiers will be sent on the same rake.
  13. +1
    April 18 2013 11: 20
    In the photo, where the trace from the defeat of the tank tower by a grenade - just think - such a neat little hole and the entire tank is out of order belay
    I’m an ignoramus in this matter, explain why the whole crew of the tank died if there weren’t any visible damage to the tank (there was obviously no detonation and fire inside). Barotrauma remain. But here in the article they once wrote that the crew does not receive any barotrauma if the hatches are closed.
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 12: 26
      I think it is not at all obvious that there was no fire, most likely the charges burned out. Well, imagine yourself, a very small, closed volume (hatches are closed) in which the pressure increases 100 times or more in a split second. , the commander blows through the hatch, vodmeh secondary factors of defeat. The hole is clearly not an RPG-7, something more serious. Maybe even "Fagot" well, in my opinion. And finally, you can't return the guys without a difference.
    2. +2
      April 18 2013 12: 57
      The first damaging factor is the cumulative jet with particles of molten armor, and the second is just a barotrauma with closed hatches. Try to shoot an empty cartridge into an aluminum flask, it will inflate like a ball, the same effect in a closed tank, only the hull naturally does not inflate, and it squashes people inside from a sharp expansion of gases.
      1. +9
        April 18 2013 13: 05
        Zabronevy action of the cumulative ammunition is provided by high-speed cumulative jet penetrated through the barrier, and secondary fragments of armor. The temperature of the jet is sufficient to ignite the powder charges, fumes lubricants and hydraulic fluids. The damaging effect of the cumulative jet, the number of secondary fragments decrease with increasing armor thickness.

        Now for more information on overpressure and shock wave. By itself, the cumulative jet does not create any significant shock wave by virtue of its small mass. The shock wave is created by undermining the explosive charge of the ammunition (high-explosive action). The shock wave CAN NOT penetrate beyond the thick-bronch barrier through the hole punched by the cumulative jet, because the diameter of such an opening is negligible, it is impossible to transmit any significant impulse through it. Accordingly, excessive pressure cannot be created inside the armored vehicle.
      2. warm
        +2
        April 18 2013 14: 51
        barotrauma with closed hatches.

        this nonsense has already been understood more than once. there is no "barotrauma". a hole of 1 cm2 and an internal volume of 3 m3 - where does the pressure rise come from?
        the same thing on Abrams - RPG hit, penetration - mehan got in his foot - and EVERYTHING !!! no more injuries.
        1. +3
          April 18 2013 14: 57
          Here I am about that ... they do not believe (Damn grabbed the minuses solely from what I was trying to explain)
          1. ramsi
            0
            April 19 2013 11: 20
            somewhere I met a clear explanation that yes - no burning or penetration - there is a penetration. The speed of the stream of liquid metal, lining the reverse cone of explosives, reaches: at the beginning - about 5 km / s, at the end - up to 1,5 km / s. It stretches, like, up to one and a half meters in length, after which (at the end) it begins to disintegrate into drops. The crew is struck by the blast itself and the armor fragments. If the detonation of the ammunition did not occur, then with the hatches closed, there should be no barotrauma. (I don't remember only - is it molten metal, or "disassembled" to some other state? ..)
            1. 0
              April 19 2013 12: 28
              In my opinion, approximately the same thing happens as a water stream in sand or earth.
  14. Axel
    +3
    April 18 2013 11: 44
    Quote: Prometey
    In the photo, where the trace from the defeat of the tank tower by a grenade

    From the textbook "Effects of Means of Destruction", NSTU, Ph.D. Balagansky, Dr. Yurovsky.

    In addition, a number of testimonies "BTR-60PB. N. Kupriyanov, who served in Afghanistan in 1981-83 as a member of the BTR-60PB crew, recalled:" ... A grenade stuck into the starboard side, just above the ammunition rack. Everything inside the vehicle was clouded with smoke , a grenade, gnawing a hole from a penny in the armor, spewed a stream of molten metal inside. The floor of the car vibrated underfoot, the upper hatches were thrown back with pressure, the membranes ached with a sharp pain, the pain became unbearable with each beat of the pulse ... "
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 13: 20
      And, my dear, BMD also often survived, design features — it breaks down the landing hatch, the same is described by a respected veteran. With BMPs and tanks it doesn’t tear hatches more critical. And that you think there is a shock wave in a closed cluttered volume increase in pressure.
      1. +3
        April 18 2013 13: 33
        Dear, please learn the materiel ... I have already explained this topic twice. The off-target action of the cumulative ammunition is provided by a high-speed cumulative jet penetrating the barrier and secondary fragments of armor. The jet temperature is sufficient to ignite the powder charges, fuels and lubricants and hydraulic fluids. The amazing effect of the cumulative jet, the number of secondary fragments decrease with increasing thickness of the armor.

        Now for more information on overpressure and shock wave. By itself, the cumulative jet does not create any significant shock wave by virtue of its small mass. The shock wave is created by undermining the explosive charge of the ammunition (high-explosive action). The shock wave CAN NOT penetrate beyond the thick-bronch barrier through the hole punched by the cumulative jet, because the diameter of such an opening is negligible, it is impossible to transmit any significant impulse through it. Accordingly, excessive pressure cannot be created inside the armored vehicle.


        If the cumulative jet and fragments of armor do not hit people and fire / explosive equipment of the tank, then the crew survives safely: provided they are inside armored vehicles and closed hatches!
      2. warm
        +1
        April 18 2013 14: 56
        god what a dream of reason ...
    2. warm
      0
      April 18 2013 14: 54
      the fact that the RPG breaks the sides of the Russian armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles is no secret. RPG tank armor is not able to break through - also a fact.

      well, don't read the "artistic whistle" of some veterans who saw the flight of a cumulative jet ...
      1. Prohor
        0
        April 19 2013 14: 49
        If someone carefully watched the shooting from the RPG, then you probably saw that when the grenade exploded, which did not hit the armored target, sometimes a red line is visible. This, apparently, is a cumulative stream. And inside the armored vehicles you definitely will not see it.
  15. 0
    April 18 2013 12: 05
    Axel
    That is, after all, barotrauma? Thanks for the answer.
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 13: 08
      Zabronevy action of the cumulative ammunition is provided by high-speed cumulative jet penetrated through the barrier, and secondary fragments of armor. The temperature of the jet is sufficient to ignite the powder charges, fumes lubricants and hydraulic fluids. The damaging effect of the cumulative jet, the number of secondary fragments decrease with increasing armor thickness.

      Now for more information on overpressure and shock wave. By itself, the cumulative jet does not create any significant shock wave by virtue of its small mass. The shock wave is created by undermining the explosive charge of the ammunition (high-explosive action). The shock wave CAN NOT penetrate beyond the thick-bronch barrier through the hole punched by the cumulative jet, because the diameter of such an opening is negligible, it is impossible to transmit any significant impulse through it. Accordingly, excessive pressure cannot be created inside the armored vehicle.


      If the cumulative jet and fragments of armor do not hit people and fire / explosive equipment of the tank, then the crew survives safely: provided they are inside armored vehicles and closed hatches!

      I hope so clear?
      1. 0
        April 18 2013 13: 42
        Quote: LeXXSkAt
        I hope so clear?

        Yes, it’s clear, I think. Just do not get excited, I really do not understand well the physics of explosives, so I wanted to enlighten my ignorance a little. Again, I recall the film "Purgatory" (yes, I know that a lot of fiction), when militants point-blank shoot a tank (they are either complete stupid people who are not afraid of ammunition detonation, or were 100% sure that there was nothing to detonate). Was it realistic to survive inside the tank after this?
      2. Volkhov
        0
        April 18 2013 13: 57
        The cumulative jet + is ionized and heated, therefore, when an electron is taken away from air molecules, they decompose into atoms and the pressure rises, also from heating. It's just that science is specialized and takes into account 1 factor - gas dynamics, but there are no electrical effects.
        The lining material is important - it may be a passing chemical (from uranium) or electronic damage. (German Fausts sometimes left a dead crew in an unburned tank) Electronic defeat involves the removal of an electron from oxygen molecules, incl. blood and rapid death from suffocation, so birds perish in flight and dolphins with fish in the sea.
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 14: 02
          http://topwar.ru/20498-esche-odin-kumulyativnyy-mif.html

          Read it please. There are facts about temperature, pressure and damaging effects.

          Regards, Alexey.
        2. Dim Dim
          +1
          April 18 2013 22: 42
          Learn physics, the cumulative jet is not ionized, and its temperature is really below the melting point of the metal, this is the penetration of metal through another under super high pressure. And stories about all kinds of flowing electrons are nonsense. Same as an air molecule. For your information, air is just a mixture of gases, 70% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, carbon dioxide, and other little things.
      3. malkor
        -2
        April 18 2013 14: 43
        Dear lekskskskat shock wave is a sharp pressure drop - the wave propagates in the volume through the hole and the gases of the cumulative jet penetrate and despite its small WEIGHT, the cumulative stream SALES a few centimeters METAL (It smelts it and not how it is thought to be thermal and kinetic energy of the gases generated after the explosion of an explosive rocket RPG projectile hot gases penetrated through the melted hole create the effect of an explosion of a small explosive inside the tank and with open hatches not getting directly under the stream, the crew survives, and when closed it gets barotrauma.
        1. +2
          April 18 2013 14: 54
          I cited a reference there so as not to be unfounded ... Please read I do not want to quote the entire article ... And it doesn’t melt or burn because the temperature is lower than the melting point of the armor, but it breaks through.
          1. Volkhov
            0
            April 18 2013 17: 22
            It does not penetrate, but sprays - the electron shells are combined, the electrons are released, then the ions of the armor and the jet.
            1. -1
              April 19 2013 02: 55
              Actually, all calculations on the cumulation processes are based on pressure equations, the jet pushes through the armor. And the key parameter of the armor is stupid, yield strength
          2. -2
            April 18 2013 21: 31
            Dear LeXXSkAt, we have already understood your opinion, as well as love and ability to press the keyboard. The Internet, of course, is good, however, I think you should "gamble" academically. Sorry, for the possibly mentoring tone
    2. Avenger711
      0
      April 18 2013 16: 52
      With open hatches. If they were bullied, the shock wave would be low hazard.
  16. +2
    April 18 2013 12: 20
    Yes, it’s not the tanks and the soldiers that matter, but the government and the command, which was then, but the worst thing is that many of those traitors who were then in charge still walk on the sinful earth.
  17. +2
    April 18 2013 12: 40
    Chechnya is an experience that must not be forgotten and repeated. Soldiers, too, people they do not want to die because of the criminal actions of their state. If you need to capture the city, you need to draw up a capture plan and not hope for invulnerability of tank technology.
  18. Alexander Kirov
    +5
    April 18 2013 12: 49
    God still had mercy on us from August 1981, when there was a team preparing according to the Czechoslovakian scenario. And I have a BMP-1 and in Krakow. I remove the top-bottom limiters, the bypass, the gun searchlight, I prepare plugs for the rear tanks, sandbags for my feet , boxes on top so what? Jaruzelsky saved. And I was reprimanded for damage to property, and the lives of soldiers who need them neither then nor now.
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 20: 00
      And if you did not save Jaruzelsky? Then you would save the soldier, and a reprimand ... that’s always the case in Russia.
      1. Alexander Kirov
        +1
        April 19 2013 02: 52
        If he hadn’t saved Jaruzelsky, they would have burned us in Krakow, as in Grozny. In the school in 1974, the justified dispute 2A28 THUND was not a gun but a fart. Give us the infantry at least 37 mm automatic machine, the ACS for armor, better 2, the elevation angle 65-80 cumulative screens and how did it end? Even Afghanistan was UNFAVORABLE but only the Hungarian events of 1956, which I studied very well from the stories of veterans. The dispute ended in a special department, well, as usual, dislike for your weapons and praise of the enemy and the political department. All the same stupidity repeated on New Year in Grozny, after 21 year! AK-74 appeared. Step forward, after 5 days I added an SVD sniper scope to the AK, not yet a collimator, and so, the flight paths of the bullet are almost the same and what again? Evaluated for shooting in the mountains? Yeah, spoilage of weapons, 5 days of arrest. And I then shot back at the PRIKVO check, the general saw a reprimand again, we violated it, and who forbade it? 30% of the norm, like that. The officers of the beer company didn’t dry out. We only shot at the beer and boxes, the incentive! We are the best with beer.
  19. +1
    April 18 2013 13: 25
    The Interior Minister said that the idea was to quickly and covertly capture the city, but the army could not do everything quickly. As a result, the militants prepared very well.

    IMHO - for fighting in the city, a heavy BMP with reliable armor and powerful weapons with large elevation angles suggests itself.
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 14: 19
      Quote: _KM_
      The Interior Minister said that the idea was to quickly and covertly capture the city, but the army could not do everything quickly. As a result, the militants prepared very well.


      Subsequent events indicate that the cause of the defeat was laid down even before the withdrawal of our troops. The betrayal of Russia's interests, on the example of the Chechen wars, is a clear indicator of putrefactive processes at the top of power and among the "big boys" in uniform.
    2. Alexander Kirov
      0
      April 18 2013 18: 35
      Here's a gift for a couple? Kharkov repair plant, last year. It is a pity. In one copy.
    3. +2
      April 18 2013 20: 03
      Reconnaissance, artillery, mobile groups with the support (!) Of armored vehicles, cleaning and fixing the captured area. No rush and snot about the "peaceful" population (warned, released, let's go).
  20. +3
    April 18 2013 14: 03
    Glory to the tankmen! Eternal memory to the dead guys! ..
  21. +2
    April 18 2013 14: 31
    Hello everyone .
    Honestly, I expected another from the article. I thought the author would write about how quickly I had to learn to fight and interact:
    Fire support of the 255 guards. In the defensive battles for the hospital complex, the SME from the Northeast group provided a tank battalion in the number of 7 tanks T-72А and T-72Б1.


    Tankers, leading the battle in the environment, were one of the first to use the “swoop” technique when the 2 of the tank, successively rolling out from around the corner of the building, fired 3-4 shots at the detected targets and backed off.


    An attempt to capture an attack from the hospital complex of the bridgehead on the eastern bank of the river. Sunzha led the 3 of January to the loss of two T-72B (M) tanks from artillery-grenade launcher fire from the 74 Guards that entered the city on the eve. Omsbr After the infantry was cut off from the tanks, the latter were instantly knocked out at the bridge, replenishing the account of the irretrievable losses of the tank units storming Grozny. Covering the crew’s withdrawal with fire from the machine, the wounded tankman Private A. Ryabokon died at his combat vehicle (posthumously awarded the Order of Courage),


    A change in tactics of the action of federal forces tanks in urban conditions was outlined with the expansion of the fully controlled infantry zone of residential areas and the transition from defensive battles to offensive ones. The deficit in tanks caused by the initial losses forced the creation of mixed armored groups, which included the 2 of the tank and the ZSU-23-4 or BMP-2. Assigned to specific assault motorized infantry units, armored groups were to provide constant cover for the assaulting motorized infantry building with powerful fire. In subsequent battles, due to the different level of protection of these combat vehicles and their various maneuverable capabilities, the mixed composition of the armored group was used extremely rarely.


    Two main methods of action of armored groups were used. In the first case, one tank fired in the interests of the infantry, and the crew of the second, observing the situation, could at any time notice and repel an attack preparing for the lead tank. According to the ammunition consumption of the first tank, the second provided its head exit from the position with its fire. ZSU-23-4 and BMP-2, hiding in tanks due to their weak booking, fired on the upper floors of high-rise buildings.


    The time interval of fire impact on the enemy depended on the speed of replenishment of ammunition armored group in the rear. On average, a day a pair of tanks made two to four exits to the assault target, while reaching the firing line, the crews tried to go at low speeds for sound masking, and when they left the engine they squeezed everything that they could do.


    Controlling the assault units of the federal forces over separate scattered buildings and quarters made each raid of the tank group a risky event, because on the extension route or when returning via 15-30 minutes for replenishment of ammunition, the armored group could easily be caught in the crossfire of anti-tank weapons of an illegal armed formation that ambushed on the way tanks. The absence of large-scale maps of the districts and streets of the city led to a limitation of the maneuver of armored groups when advancing to firing lines and moving away from them. Whenever possible, the crews tried every time to change routes. The typical situation was on January 10 during the battles for Lenin Square. With the task of blocking the intersection of Pervomaiskaya and Naurskaya streets, our T-72Б1 (board number 430), moving to a firing position, was fired from an ambush when approaching the square. One of the RPG shots fell on board, the absence of a bulwark earlier torn off led to through penetration of the armor in the area of ​​fuel tanks and the ammunition. Instant detonation did not leave the crew a chance to escape.

  22. 0
    April 18 2013 14: 38
    The second method was called a "carousel" or "pinwheel." The essence of the combat work of the armored group was the continuity of the fire impact on the target. Several pairs of tanks, alternately, conducting a shift change at the firing line, provided continuous firing of targets, in pairs leaving for the rear to replenish ammunition.


    This method was used with the support of the 876 th dshbr, which stormed the Council of Ministers of the Czech Republic. Tanks T-72B (M) from the armored group of the 74 Guards. Omsbr brigade fired on suppression of firing points and blocked the building, not allowing the approach of reserves of illegal armed groups on the bridge over the river. Sunzha. This position also made it possible to fire direct fire at the Kavkaz Hotel and the Presidential Palace. During the battle, each of the vehicles received several hits from the RPG, P. Nemtsov’s tank burned down. Having used up the ammunition, the armored group of two tanks and the “horseless” crew of P. Nemtsov transferred the position to the two T-72B1 tanks from the tank battalion of the 276 SME (probably S. Novokshonov and E. Lyapustin).


    The need for assault groups in tank support led to their intensive use in urban battles. According to the memoirs of the commander of a tank platoon of the 133 guards. from Captain V. Baglai, during the battles near the tram park, his tankers had to literally live six days in their cars. The infantry refueled tanks, supplied ammunition, products, after which the armored group immediately went to the suppression of firing points.


    In these battles, as an additional protection against RPGs and heavy machine guns, the crews of tanks and light armored vehicles of the federal troops began to intensively hang shell boxes, nets, and additional spare parts on their armor.


    A large number of tank losses in Grozny was exacerbated by the lack of contact dynamic protection (KDZ) or explosive in it. For example, the 20 tanks of the T-72 131 th ombre and the 7 tanks T-72 255-th MSP, as well as the T-72 (172M) and T-72 693 th SMPS and 503 th SMPS SKVO did not have contact dynamic protection and the 14 T-72B1 tanks had KDZ "snuff-boxes" empty. The T-72B1 tanks belonging to the 276 th SME and the T-80 from the 81 th SME joined the battle for Grozny with empty KDZ blocks. Waging an intense battle in the narrow streets of the city, hiding from return fire, tank crews pressed cars to buildings or drove inside houses, demolishing bulwarks and crushing KDZ blocks. There was practically no time for repairs in a combat situation. The absence of new blocks made it impossible and pointless to install explosive plates brought from the rear.


    Like this .And the article is similar to the chronology of those events and the topic itself is given a minimum of attention. No offense will be said to the author, but the article could bring practical benefits and serve as a guide to action, if there is suitable material. IMHO
  23. warm
    0
    April 18 2013 15: 10
    not so long ago, Denis Mokrushin (http://twower.livejournal.com/1027197.html) had an analysis of the American operation in Baghdad - one in one capture of Grozny ... but with a diametrically opposite result ...
  24. +10
    April 18 2013 15: 11
    "P. Grachev only on December 27 gave the order to start the storming of Grozny on December 31 with a mandatory report to the President of Russia on the capture of the city on January 1 at 00.01."
    Bastards, they would be there so that they would famously “rattle their arms” by the round date ...

    "The worst thing about all this was that it was the Soviet troops who at one time gained a lot of experience in fighting in the city."
    The generals simply needed to read BUSV, and not just poke us in their nose.

    "The ERA systems worked exceptionally well."
    Yes, only we fastened them on the go, but not all had time, and there were few of them, not enough.

    "This assault cost the Russian army about 6000 killed and wounded."
    It’s still painful to see the photo ...

    Tankers without infantry are nowhere, just like infantry without tanks. Until we walk through the territory together, it will not be cleansed, no matter who says anything about contactless wars.

    And war is a terrible thing. It does not work out about rassusolivat ...
    Thanks to the author for the article, sorry about the application itself, the topic is not disclosed.

    Video in memory:
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 15: 33
      Thanks for the video, impressive .... Hats off.
  25. +5
    April 18 2013 15: 16
    As we see, the rotten tradition of the Russian-Soviet-Russian army to take cities to the red dates of the calendar over the past two centuries has not hesitated. Now we take Plevna for the Tsar’s birthday, then Kiev for November 7, Berlin for May 1, and now a New Year’s present ...
    Still have not learned how to protect a soldier, it’s a pity for the guys who again had to sacrifice their lives in order to please politicians.
  26. Avenger711
    +1
    April 18 2013 16: 50
    Now we take Plevna for the Tsar’s birthday, then Kiev - for November 7, Berlin - for May 1


    The author. Do not know, do not write. And if they focused on the plan, then how? Would they also take it by January 1, and not 13 days earlier?

    Dynamic protection systems worked exceptionally well.


    Yeah, only the mass of tanks was without them and taken from storage bases.

    In August 1996, fights broke out again in Grozny, although this time they did not last long. On August 6, militants broke into the city. They did not try to storm the strongholds of the federal troops, but simply isolated them and subjected them to mortar fire, waiting for the surrender of the defenders. However, the energetic actions of the command of the federal forces managed to prevent the worst case scenario. Although the fighting was still stubborn, a corridor to the Government House was broken on August 11, lifting the siege from this important point. And by August 13, a decisive turning point was reached. Federal troops began to crowd the enemy in all directions, and militants began to withdraw from the city.


    Of course, the army always copes with the partisans. Only after this, for some reason, shamefully ended. From which it clearly follows that the raid on Grozny did not imply anything else, the main thing is to create hysteria in the media and surrender the country, and that the commanders on the ground will disperse the bandits, it does not matter.
  27. +1
    April 18 2013 18: 59
    terrible war. sorry for our guys. so pity....
    I imagine what would happen to Yues Marins if they had met at least once in a similar battle with the militants. and in fact, militants are their outgrowths, which were both funded and supported from across the ocean. These are not the puppets now fighting against Assad in Syria, these are real animals!
    1. warm
      0
      April 18 2013 19: 29
      I imagine what would happen to Yues Marins if they had met at least once in a similar battle with the militants.

      see the assault on Baghdad, operation 1: 1, the opposite result.

      http://twower.livejournal.com/1027197.html
    2. Prohor
      0
      April 19 2013 15: 08
      The militants, of course, were supported by our enemies, but in their leadership there were many former officers of the Soviet Army (the same Dudaev and Maskhadov), and it was they who directed the actions of the militants. Very effective, unfortunately.
    3. Scythian 35
      0
      1 May 2013 17: 20
      Which on from zaokena !!! He trained the FSB for the war in Abkhazia, armed the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation by transferring the military skill of the military units previously deployed in the Chechen-Ingush Republic. Heal while medicine is free!
  28. spanchbob
    0
    April 18 2013 19: 44
    He said treason, starting from the highest echelon — the generals (not all of course, of course, but there were traitors) and ending with individual officers and soldiers in the warring army. So we need to pay more attention to the moral qualities of people who are trusted in the country's defense. And we had a big failure in this matter.
    And you know, I agree with him. [/ Quote]
    Why all the time they nod at the traitors. Is betrayal a trait of the Russian army? You think badly of yourself!
  29. +1
    April 18 2013 20: 40
    Quote: spanchbob
    Why all the time they nod at the traitors. Is betrayal a trait of the Russian army?


    I want to recall the words of Napoleon: -This is worse than betrayal. This is mistake!

    A military professional has no right to be mistaken!
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 21: 54
      Feels minus came from the Potomac!
  30. +2
    April 18 2013 22: 11
    Tired of listening to betrayal, if everyone at the top was such villains and traitors, the question arises, and who were those who executed these orders, who knew that from the commander in chief and the minister of defense to the generals there were all bastards, villains and traitors. it turns out all the country's leadership was not legitimate ??? Then the war itself in Chechnya was not legitimate. They also said that the tanks were without DZ, and here on all and in other pictures all the tanks were with them ... Everywhere they say that there was no experience, etc. and you read articles on this and other sites about the people participating there, all the time people who have passed Afghanistan, Transnistria, Abkhazia and something else ...
    1. 0
      7 October 2015 19: 32
      The command had no experience. This is the first. Secondly, after the war, realizing what happened, they began to call them traitors. And what's the point in DZ if there is no explosive? This is also something to go to war without DZ.
  31. +1
    April 18 2013 22: 48
    Dear commentators, the fighting in the city has always been and will be a bloody affair, do not consider it as valuable, but the key factor in the assault on the city (isolated fortified area) is time. With all the consequences. The assault must be preceded by a siege. victims among attackers. One should not compare with amers, firstly, objective information has just begun to appear, and secondly, amers in Baghdad still managed to deprive the defenders of centralized control by turning them into disparate groups, languidly interacting with each other. Unlike Chechens, the governance structures which, they acted even better than the federals. The Amers had two assaults, and not successful, after some time the situation was strikingly reminiscent of Grozny 96. The difference is that we knew when to stop — big losses — analysis — change of tactics. normal command. In 94-96, this was very lacking.
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 23: 05
      Smart words are nice to listen to. Plus to you!
  32. Larus
    +1
    April 19 2013 01: 02
    How many sensible commanders and soldiers died and all because they were afraid to say no, when it was necessary to prepare and after that to go and wet the bandiuk. It is clear that the orders are not discussed, but again we need to reasonably and be aware of their actions. it is this officer’s honor when you know that he did everything right, and did not fulfill the order to ....
  33. +2
    April 19 2013 04: 44
    I'll put in my five cents. Nobody thought about such a fact - for how long was the army operation planned? If we take the weather report for the period from November to March on the territory of Chechnya - what will we see? On the flat part of the territory during this period, the most frequent phenomena are fog, sleet or snow and rain, low clouds. In the mountainous part, the most frequent weather phenomena are fogs located in the gorges, good visibility is possible over the mountain peaks. An EXTREMELY bad time was chosen for the operation due to meteorological characteristics. How many problems there were - you need to fly - no weather! Neglecting weather data limited the ability of aviation to conduct aerial reconnaissance and defeat ground targets. And this is one of the MANY building blocks of victory. Here many write about traitors, etc. - How then was the North East group able to effectively conduct hostilities? Only there you read BUSV h 3,2,1? Betrayed rather to the military (although there are some freaks in the family) and politicians - just put the squeeze on - a truce! After a couple of weeks, a month - again in a new way - the illegal armed groups captured this and that - to destroy. But these are emotions, but in essence of the article - thanks to the author for not letting the memory "subside". The tank CAN and MUST fight in the city. And they should not fight in the city of BMPTs or heavy BMP / armored personnel carriers - ANY armored vehicle can be knocked out / destroyed, and in the city it is easier to do it in triplets. The city should be "cleaned" by assault groups in close cooperation with artillery, tanks (as a means of direct fire support) and aviation. And in order for this to work, you need to work out the interaction in detail - first on the maps, then play in the "sandbox", conduct radio training (which, by the way, was done in the North East) - these are also building blocks of victory.
    After the passage of the assault groups, the "clean territory" should "provide" the troops of the second echelon with the setting up of checkpoints and the organization of control sectors where just the MRAPs and other "burden" may be needed.
    1. +1
      April 19 2013 14: 17
      Here I will give you a counterargument. The Germans, planning in November 41 to take Moscow what they thought? About the weather to a lesser extent. The same story.
      For the rest I agree with you.
      1. 0
        April 21 2013 05: 18
        Without all-round preparation, planning (choosing the time of the year, season, time of day - the conduct of hostilities) combat operations. comprehensive support and ORGANIZATION of interaction to win is NOT POSSIBLE. And our "Aheles' heel" is communication. It was organized according to the peacetime scheme! The father himself was a signalman - from childhood he saw how it was done - it was not done there. The result is what we have. And about the Germans - they planned the blitz krieg just right - for the driest months of the year in the USSR. They did not take into account the value of the Soviet soldier. And our Pasha chose SAMONE not a favorable time for military operations, but even in these conditions it was possible to achieve success - there was no need to take the city by 010.01! I also suggest remembering his dictum - Take Grozny with one RAP !!! The height of ideotism !!!!! And you Andrey, which would you prefer - a trench in summer or winter, or a dirt road in summer or autumn, arable field in summer or autumn? Real combat is not a counter strike.
  34. +3
    April 19 2013 04: 44
    Here in the comments they wrote that we needed a machine of the ISU 152 type - and what, excuse me, does not suit MSTA? And again, in many comments, people are sliding towards heavy infantry fighting vehicles and insufficient armor protection of tanks - again, is it supposed to let the equipment go forward? And the infantry behind her? And again look at the frames of the heap of twisted iron? And to say - how bad everything is! If we look at the offensive in more detail, we will see that there are periods like fire preparation for the offensive and fire support of the advancing troops. This is all good on the terrain where there is an enemy who seems to be "disgusting" to us - beat at him and beat him, if only the ammunition was delivered on time - but what about in a city located on the territory of your country? This is another problem that everyone for some reason forgot about. Our guys did not expect such actions from the militants, no one prepared them to go to war in their country. In 60 hours, listen carefully to what the battalion's NSh says - they did not understand that this was a war and people would die in it, some time passed until everyone realized what it really was. I do not write that they were UNPROFESSIONAL! We were being prepared to fight an external enemy (at least the armed forces)!
    Here some "butted" about the cumulative effect - when I was a cadet (of a tank school), there was a colonel in the department of operation who fought on a T-62 in Afghanistan. So, in the first lesson he told us and showed us how to neutralize the consequences of a cumulative hit in the tank - a wooden stick lies across the hatch, a rope is tied to the hatch cover, the hatch closes and the second end of the rope is tied to the back of the seat (whether the commander is the gunner - it does ) and when the KS enters the tank and the armor is penetrated by EXCESSIVE PRESSURE, the hatches open, the crew does not receive barotrauma. You can, of course, not close the hatches at all - but then what to do with the shooters from the upper floors?
    Bright memory to all those who died for their homeland and country. And EBN, Grachev and the "London gallows" had to be dug up and hung - then buried again and a track was to be built in place of the graves for testing tanks. In general, I'm glad that they have become "just a leash of history"
  35. mojohed
    0
    April 19 2013 06: 40
    I believe that the use of BMPT Terminator in the course of street fighting would not give a significant result, because in fact, the BMPT is the same tank, but without a powerful gun, the review from the BMPT also leaves much to be desired. However, if the DMPT had not 1 combat module, but two forward and backward, the chances of a support effect and suppression of resistance would increase.
  36. rainer
    0
    April 19 2013 07: 02
    I am interested in a few questions about this article:
    1. What sources did the author use?
    2. On the basis of what facts does he make such "profound" conclusions about the "betrayal and incompetence" of the command?
    3. Has the author read the memoirs of General Troshin, "The Diary of a Trench General"?
    4. Does the author have access to the MO document for that period in order to so boldly discuss the motives of the generals in general and P. Grachev in particular ...
    1. 0
      April 19 2013 14: 08
      "The 131st brigade found itself in a particularly difficult situation, which lost all its armored vehicles by about 1 pm on January 16.00."

      The 131st brigade was tasked with taking the railway station. The task was completed. After that, the equipment was left near the station, and the personnel were accommodated in the station building, awaiting further actions from the command. The result is known to everyone - the abandoned equipment was burned, and the personnel were forced to take battle surrounded in the station building. This is to the author. If you "lost your armored vehicles", then you need to name the reason.
  37. -2
    April 19 2013 11: 49
    Königsberg, Breslau, Berlin showed exactly how to act in such cases.

    Well, I was always surprised at the stupidity of officers, there are certainly pros, but the main gray mass dilutes them so much that these pros look almost miraculous heroes, although everyone should work like that.
    I was also interested in this picture in the article:

    And now here’s what:
    1. 0
      April 19 2013 12: 26
      I don’t understand how pictures are inserted, it used to be simpler.

      And now here’s what:



      [img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-lgjx6mIQ6EA3Qi9KNvc
      cJaZw-gM8Z0_5otwDKqF1mfwMmvHv0A[/img]
    2. 0
      April 20 2013 05: 25
      The officers are, of course, not far ... Where can we think, we are stupid boots. In addition to being heroes of jokes, they are not capable of anything.

      Regards LeXXSkAt Guards Captain Shapovalov A.V.
  38. 0
    April 19 2013 14: 09
    The 131st brigade was tasked with taking the railway station. The task was completed. After that, the equipment was left near the station, and the personnel were accommodated in the station building, awaiting further actions from the command. The result is known to everyone - the abandoned equipment was burned, and the personnel were forced to take battle surrounded in the station building. This is to the author. If they "lost their armored vehicles", then the reason must be given.
  39. V. Ushakov
    0
    April 19 2013 14: 31
    There was no need to send any troops, some tanks to Chechnya ... A one-stage bombing and missile strike over the entire territory of the rebellious enclave, and even corpses need not be collected. And now it would be quiet and quiet - no Chechens - anywhere and - much less than other Gaster ... oh, self-serving leadership and - on the contrary ...
  40. 0
    April 20 2013 19: 05
    Quote: LeXXSkAt
    The officers are, of course, not far ... Where can we think, we are stupid boots. In addition to being heroes of jokes, they are not capable of anything.

    Regards LeXXSkAt Guards Captain Shapovalov A.V.

    Not addressed to you. Just someone puts everyone on the same line! Our homeland has many excellent officers !!! But the family is not without ..... recourse
  41. Scythian 35
    0
    1 May 2013 17: 27
    Quote: _KM_
    The Interior Minister said that the idea was to quickly and covertly capture the city, but the army could not do everything quickly.

    But how should the army capture Grozny quickly? Do not repeat the words of the Minister-Dybila !!! Just the army captured Grozny, just then the Chechens began to crush the army into cubes, straws and circles.

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