Mine cruisers - the ancestors of destroyers

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Mine cruisers - the ancestors of destroyers

Destroyers could make the transition from the Baltic to the Far East under their own power (accompanied by a floating base, of course), but they were not capable of fighting together with a squadron: the waves that were defined as “working weather” for a cruiser or battleship became a struggle for survival for a ship under 150 tons. Approximately the same can be said about fighters or counter-destroyers, called upon to fight enemy destroyers, whose displacement was somewhat greater, but this did not change the situation. And to use torpedo weapon I wanted to be in a squadron battle!

The answer was a class of ships that in Russia were called "mine cruisers", in Great Britain - "mine gunboats", and in France - "mine avisos". These ships were supposed to combine the qualities of a torpedo boat, a destroyer, and at the same time have sufficient seaworthiness to operate as part of a squadron. The first to decide to build such cruisers were the French...



On August 16, 1879, the Conseil d'Armiaute decided to adopt a shipbuilding program for 1879. The program included a clause on the construction of four high-speed torpedo ships, protected from light weapons fire from the bow. They were to accompany squadrons of battleships, and serve to protect ports, which is why they were initially called "coastal defense torpedo boats." These were to be ships with a displacement of about a thousand tons, slower (with a speed of 14-15 knots) than torpedo boats, but significantly more seaworthy. Subsequently, classifying them as coastal defense ships was recognized as a mistake, and it was decided to reclassify the ships that had not yet been built as mine avisos (however, the French classification of ships is more complicated than Newton's binomial) - their task was to attack enemy ships in remote harbors, where they feel safe.


Marie Anne Louis de Bussy 1820-1903 French shipbuilder

The project of the French shipbuilding luminary Louis de Bussy was based on Armstrong's Arturo Prat-class ships, a transitional type from a gunboat to a light cruiser. The ships' displacement was 1240 tons, and steam engines with a capacity of 3,5 indicated horsepower provided a speed of 17 knots. The central part of the ship was covered with a carapace armor deck 10-20 mm thick, and another one was located above the engines - a flat anti-splinter armor deck. According to the French engineer, such armor protection should have been sufficient against the guns of the British cruisers of the Iris and Comus types. The ships were planned to be armed with 5x100-mm guns, 4x37-mm Hotchkiss revolver guns and five above-water torpedo tubes.


"Condor" is the first mine advice note.

All four mine avisos were commissioned in January 1883 and were named Condor, Epervier, Faucon and Vautour. They were small armored cruisers with a long ram, one funnel and three masts, one of which was later dismantled. The armament... It was serious: five 100 mm guns, four 47 mm and six 37 mm Hotchkiss guns and four torpedo tubes. But it was considered too powerful for destroying torpedo boats! After all, according to the views of the time, a torpedo boat needed only a few shells to go to the bottom. In general, the next series (mine aviso type "Bomb") was made with a displacement three times smaller and with armament of 4x2-mm guns and five 47-mm Hotchkiss revolver guns, with two above-water torpedo tubes and a speed of 37 knots.


Mine aviso "Leger"

It must be said that speed for ships of this class soon became considered one of the main indicators: if a simple torpedo boat was protected by its small size, then it was much easier to hit a mine aviso, so only speed was its salvation. True, it soon became clear that a torpedo boat was far from such an easy target, and the armament should be strengthened. In fact, this is exactly what was done on the 500-ton mine avisos "Leger" and "Levrier", which received 1x65-mm gun, 3x47-mm and two 37-mm revolver guns. Plus - two torpedo tubes of increased caliber (450-mm instead of 350-mm) on the deck and one in the stem.


Mine gunboat Rattlesnake

But the British were in no hurry with their ships of this class. True, they went their own way. Instead of creating fast ships, but armed with a large number of small-caliber quick-firers, they installed small, slow-moving, but very solidly armed ships. The 559-ton Rattlesnake-class mine-laying gunboats, designed by Nathaniel Barnaby (the first hull was launched on September 16, 1886), were the first ships to receive a triple-expansion steam engine, but, despite this, could not give more than 19 knots. But they had a thin (17,5 mm) armored deck, and most importantly - a 1x4-inch gun and a 6x47-mm Hotchkiss quick-firer. Mine armament - 4x360-mm torpedo tubes.


Mine gunboat "Sharpshooter".

Attempts to improve these not very successful ships resulted in the appearance of a series of 13 mine-laying gunboats of the Sharpshooter type, which had a traditionally low speed, but the main caliber of 2x120-mm guns, which made all other mine-laying cruisers prey for the British gunboats. Of course, if they could catch them at their 19 knots of speed... An enlarged version of the Sharpshooters - the mine-laying gunboats of the Alarm type - had the same artillery armament, but instead of 360 mm torpedo tubes there were 3 tubes with a caliber of 450 mm. Well, the speed was also not a record - 18,7 knots.


Mine cruiser "Lieutenant Ilyin"

But this is England and France, and what about Russia? And in our country, the head of the Naval Ministry, Admiral Ivan Shestakov, was an ardent supporter of such ships. So ardent that he himself took part in the development of the project of the first Russian mine cruiser. Since relations with the French after the Franco-Prussian War were warming up right before our eyes, the French had no special secrets from the Russians, and the new ship was supposed to be something between the Condor and the Bomb. Moreover, the design and construction were carried out in such a hurry (and in such secrecy!) that the mine cruiser, named Lieutenant Ilyin, was launched faster than most of its French prototypes - in 1886.


Mine cruiser "Captain Saken"

Since haste is important only when catching fleas, the ship turned out to be frankly crude. With a full displacement of 714 tons, it was armed with a whole battery of small-caliber guns: 5x47-mm and 10 37-mm Hotchkiss revolver guns! True, the side-by-side placement of artillery was more defensive than designed to destroy enemy destroyers. There were seven 381-mm torpedo tubes, but their placement also could not be considered successful. But the main thing... The ship's speed should have been at least 22 knots, but in reality, the "Lieutenant Ilyin" could not give even 20. The mine cruiser "Captain Saken", laid down in Nikolaev on May 9, 1886, was even slower - the maximum it could squeeze out was 18,3 knots per measured mile, despite the fact that it was much more modestly armed: 6x47-mm guns, 4-37-mm and three torpedo tubes of 381-mm caliber. True, the rotating torpedo tubes were removed from the "Saken" during construction (this technology was too unusual at that time), and a few years later, the fixed ones...


Mine cruiser "Vsadnik"

In general, the torpedo cruisers of domestic construction were not that bad, but... They had problems with speed, so it was decided to resort to ordering ships abroad. Not long before, Austria-Hungary ordered seven torpedo cruisers of the Meteor type from the Schichau shipyards. The Russian Naval Ministry liked the ships, and the Germans received the order: along with nine torpedo boats of the Abo type, the Schichau firm was ordered the lead ship of the series, the Kazarsky, and then two more, the Voevoda and the Posadnik (the ships were initially ordered by the King of Montenegro Nicholas I, but he was unable to buy them), and three were decided to be built in Russia - two, the Vsadnik and the Gaidamak, at the Creighton shipyard in Abo, and one, for the Black Sea, at the Admiralty shipyard in Nikolaev (Griden).

The ships were designed and built taking into account the mistakes made during the construction of the Lieutenant Ilyin and Captain Saken, so they turned out to be quite successful. At least, on average, they produced 22 knots. On average, since the ships built at the shipyards in Abo were overweighted by the Finns, and they could produce a maximum of 20 knots, but the Nikolaev Griden became the fastest of the series - 22,5 knots, which was excellent for ships of the late 80s - early 90s of the last century.


Mine cruiser "Griden"

What were the ships of this series like? They were large destroyers, built on the model of the divisional destroyers of the Kaiserliche Marine - with a standard displacement of 400 tons, a full displacement of 430 tons, a length of 60,2 meters, a width of 7,42 meters and a maximum draft of 3,5 meters. There was no armor, a steam engine with a capacity of 3510 horsepower served as an engine, armament - 6x47-mm guns and 3x37-mm Hotchkiss revolver guns. Torpedo armament was represented by two torpedo tubes - one fixed in the bow and one rotating on the deck - this was the first case of using a fully rotating torpedo tube in the domestic navyIn comparison with the Ilyin and Saken, the ships turned out to be successful, and most importantly, they cost almost half as much.


Mine cruiser "Abrek"

A successful project, by its very existence, requires continuation. True, there is always a desire to improve it a little. The Abrek became such an improved mine cruiser of the Kazarsky type. First of all, the ship's armament was strengthened - 2x75-mm and 4x47-mm guns were installed, the torpedo armament was limited to one rotating torpedo tube on the deck - in front of the mizzen. The ship's speed was lower than that of the Kazarsky, but not significantly - 21,5 knots, but its seaworthiness was excellent: in 1898, the ship passed from the Baltic to the Mediterranean Sea through the Bay of Biscay with its eternal storms without a hitch.


No comment ...

Mine cruisers are often called an unsuccessful class of ships that had no continuation. In my opinion, this is a controversial issue. The fact is that in 1905, following the Russo-Japanese War, a meeting was held in the Naval Technical Committee to decide on the development of mine forces. The main question that was raised at the meeting sounded something like this: "What to build, small destroyers or mine cruisers?" Of the 23 participants in the meeting, 14 spoke in favor of mine cruisers. Requirements for future ships were developed, and although no final decision was made at that time, these requirements became the basis for designing ships that... And this is already another story, and it deserves a separate story!
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  1. +4
    19 August 2025 04: 12
    Quote: Gerhard von Zwischen
    Destroyers could make the transition from the Baltic to the Far East under their own power
    Has anyone ever wondered why Russian ships could make such long voyages? German ships, by the way, too wink
    1. +3
      19 August 2025 10: 18
      and the rest couldn't? that would be a revelation for the English bully
      1. 0
        19 August 2025 17: 34
        Quote: faiver
        and the rest couldn't? that would be a revelation for the English
        Russian ships, like German ones, were planned for long voyages without calling at ports. And this is all because neither Russia nor Germany had overseas colonies. And the difference from the English. Is that clear?
        1. +7
          19 August 2025 17: 48
          hmm, have you tried looking at the performance characteristics of English and Russian ships from the late 19th and early 20th centuries? They will unpleasantly surprise you, the cruising range of the English is one and a half to two times greater than that of similar Russian ships...
  2. +4
    19 August 2025 05: 51
    what was considered "working weather" for a cruiser or battleship became a struggle for survival for a ship under 150 tons. Much the same could be said about fighters or counter-destroyers, which were designed to fight enemy destroyers, whose displacement was somewhat greater, but this did not change the situation.

    Why did the author add counter-torpedo boats/destroyers/fighters (appeared in the mid-1880s) to mine cruisers/aviso/gunboats (appeared in the mid-1890s)?!
    The answer was a class of ships that in Russia were called "mine cruisers," in Britain "mine gunboats," and in France "mine avisos." These ships were to combine the qualities of a torpedo boat, fighter

    Once again, at the time of the construction of the first mine cruisers, there were no counter-torpedo boats/destroyers/fighters, and accordingly, the technical specifications and projects of the first mine cruisers could not in any way combine the qualities of a fighter.
    1. -1
      19 August 2025 09: 02
      Well, the time difference is not that big - 10 years. And in general, many experts do not distinguish counter-destroyers (fighters) into a separate class, since they differed from regular destroyers only in name.
      1. +4
        19 August 2025 16: 18
        10 years is a very big time difference at that time.
        And the counter-destroyers/fighters differed greatly from the regular destroyers. First of all, in their artillery armament and speed.
        1. 0
          19 August 2025 16: 43
          The speed of both was almost the same + or - a couple of knots. Depending on the place of construction (England, France, Germany or Russia) the destroyer could have a speed greater than the counter. If the difference is a couple of barrels of caliber 37 - 47 mm. - that's a lot))) then yes - the difference is big.
        2. +4
          19 August 2025 20: 19
          Let's be honest: they were almost indistinguishable! Except that fighters have a larger displacement, but destroyers are regularly confused with fighters. The legendary "Steregushchiy" - a destroyer or a fighter? In the song - a fighter, in life - a destroyer... There is a big mix-up here: in English, "destroyer" is what we call a destroyer (or a torpedo boat, I tell you - different classifications - the devil breaks your leg), and our destroyer is a torpedo boat, but we have a classification clause for this topic "torpedo boat". Actually, this is why I decided not to write a separate article about fighters - they can be distinguished from a destroyer only by name. And even then not always...
          1. 0
            24 August 2025 14: 24
            So maybe we can compare? The same "Steregushchiy" and the destroyers from the Vladivostok detachment? And their counterparts from the United Fleet? How many knots did the first and the second give? And seaworthiness? The improved "Sokols" of the "Gromkiy" type sailed with the 2nd squadron half the world without any floating bases. And could the "Cyclones" or "Pernovs" sail like that?
        3. 0
          22 August 2025 08: 00
          And also with a displacement that is slightly inferior to the displacement of mine cruisers.
    2. 0
      19 August 2025 09: 32
      [/quote][quote=ТермиНахТер]experts do not distinguish counter-destroyers (fighters) into a separate class, since they differed from ordinary destroyers only in name

      Have you read any other experts on this issue, besides yourself?)))
      1. 0
        19 August 2025 16: 44
        And what is the mistake? Give me a link to a reference book on the Russian Navy, where there is a breakdown into destroyers and counter-destroyers? Or were the reference books compiled by amateurs?
        1. 0
          20 August 2025 07: 17
          Give me a link to a reference book on the Russian Navy that breaks down into destroyers and counter-destroyers?

          Ships of the Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905. Author: S. Suliga. Publisher: Askold, 1993.
          1. 0
            20 August 2025 07: 57
            Excellent))) and now, let's compare the performance characteristics of ships that are listed as "fighters" and those that are torpedo boats. The spread is 2-3 m. length, respectively 20-30 tons. VI is the specificity of the builders, the spread of speed is 1-2 knots. from there. The set of weapons is standard. And what's the difference? Because some were listed in one column, and others in another?)))
            1. +2
              21 August 2025 05: 59
              You have problems?
              Can't you tell a counter-destroyer/fighter from an ordinary destroyer?
              The smallest Japanese fighter KAGERO is 63 meters long and has a full displacement of 361 tons, a machine of 5470 horsepower, and a speed of 30 knots.
              The largest Japanese destroyer of the 1st class of the Cyclone type, 45 meters long and with a full displacement of 152 tons, an engine of 3500 horsepower, and a speed of 28 knots.
              And in the Russian Navy the Japanese had a bunch of even smaller destroyers of the 2nd and 3rd class)))
              It is not clear why you are asking questions that you are not even familiar with at the level of publicly available reference books?
              1. -1
                21 August 2025 10: 55
                The Japanese registered all new torpedo boats of English construction as fighters, and all the old ones were registered as torpedo boats. In the Battle of Tsushima, the fighters worked as regular torpedo boats. And in the RIF, torpedo boats whose names began with the letter "B" were registered as fighters, and exactly the same ones, but with "G" were registered as torpedo boats. How many Russian torpedo boats did Japanese fighters sink during the entire war?))
                And in 1909, when the "kamikaze" began to enter service, they were rewritten as torpedo boats. And the Germans had no destroyers at all, although the V-105 type torpedo boats had similar performance characteristics. And the French mine avisos, which were later rewritten as counter-torpedo boats, were not torpedo boats at all, their VI was more than twice as large. So what is a destroyer?)))
                1. 0
                  21 August 2025 11: 23
                  So what is a fighter?)))

                  Fighter/Destroyer/Antiripper
                  This class of ship appeared in the mid-1890s and was a torpedo boat of the 1880s, the size, seaworthiness and cruising range allowed it to accompany squadrons of battleships and cruisers on the open sea, and the armament was strengthened to a level that allowed it to destroy enemy torpedo boats. Accordingly, in addition to the purely torpedo boat task of carrying out torpedo attacks, new tasks appeared - close reconnaissance, patrol service, destruction of enemy torpedo boats and support of their own. Hence the different names in different countries. Old counter-torpedo boats/fighters/destroyers, as they became obsolete, were often "demoted" to torpedo boats (and often to minesweepers). At the same time, destroyers and "simple" torpedo boats existed in parallel even for some time after WWII.
                  in the RIF, destroyers whose names began with the letter "B" are listed as fighters, and exactly the same ones, but with "G" are listed as destroyers

                  Nonsense. The smallest Russian destroyers/anti-destroyers were 350 tons, the largest numbered destroyers were 120 tons.
                  1. -1
                    21 August 2025 12: 04
                    The destroyer "Gromkiy" and two others, all the same performance characteristics as the "Buinnye" - destroyers. The Germans and the US did not have this class of ships at all.
                    1. -1
                      21 August 2025 12: 17
                      Are you unable to download and read Sulig's reference books on Russian and Japanese ships of the RYaV? I'm not going to do it for you.
                      1. 0
                        21 August 2025 12: 56
                        And what is in that reference book - revelations from the Lord God? Suliga took data for his reference books from other reference books, not always accurate. Like, for example, data on the 254 mm. on the "Kasuga". And we are not talking about where and how the Japanese wrote about these ships. You can write anything on a fence. Can you explain to me in simple terms the difference between the "Shiranui" fighter - the "Buiny" fighter - the "Gromkiy" destroyer?
                      2. 0
                        21 August 2025 13: 05
                        Why should I explain to you a difference that doesn't exist? These are all ships of the same class that actively fought with artillery and torpedoes, and that performed a much wider range of tasks than their predecessors, the destroyers.
                      3. 0
                        21 August 2025 14: 00
                        Who argues? And the following ships, the "Kamikaze" type, performed an even wider range of tasks, but no one called them fighters. If my sclerosis doesn't fail me, the Japanese called them "kaibokan".
                2. 0
                  24 August 2025 14: 31
                  How were Japanese fighters/anti-destroyers supposed to operate if the Russian squadron did not have destroyers?
                  1. 0
                    24 August 2025 14: 52
                    How come the 2nd Pacific Fleet didn't have any destroyers? Read "Tsushima" at your leisure.
                    1. 0
                      24 August 2025 14: 54
                      So they have already become destroyers? However...
                      1. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 56
                        Okay, let them be destroyers. What's changed? It's the same as destroyers being called fighters.
    3. +3
      19 August 2025 09: 55
      I agree with Vaclav.
      I would add that the Condor, Epervier, Faucon and Vautour became the forerunners of patrol ships, essentially the development of gunboats with only mine weapons.
      Destroyers are a development of the destroyer class, which were designed to carry out mine attacks in squadron formation.
      1. +3
        19 August 2025 10: 39
        Regarding the fact that destroyers are a development of the torpedo boat class... Yes, for some reason this is often thought. But, it is not quite so. But, about this - the next material, I want to keep the intrigue)))
        1. 0
          19 August 2025 16: 14
          Destroyers, a development of the destroyer/torpedo boat destroyer class. That is, they were conceived as ships intended primarily to destroy enemy torpedo boats, but at the same time to carry out torpedo attacks on larger enemy ships.
          1. +1
            19 August 2025 20: 22
            Not exactly. At least in the Russian fleet (and in the German one too!) destroyers are a development of the class of mine cruisers. But, about this - in the next article, so for now I will not give a detailed answer, in order to keep the intrigue)))
            1. 0
              24 August 2025 14: 39
              It's interesting that the first RN fighters, which served as the basis for the Russian "Sokols", were destroyers. And the very first ones were built in 1893. And specifically as destroyers of enemy destroyers.
        2. +1
          19 August 2025 16: 48
          Well, actually, this name for this type of ship was invented in Russia (USSR), abroad it is called "destructor" in English - i.e. destroyer. The Germans have "zestroer" - a fighter, the French have "torpeller" and "countertorpeller", although again, there was no particular difference. Then they came up with another - leader.
          1. +4
            19 August 2025 21: 49
            Quote: TermNachTER
            Abroad, English speakers call it a "destructor" - i.e. a destroyer.

            Are you sure? The name "destroyer" was much more common. And Google translates "destructor" as "incinerator" laughing
            1. +1
              19 August 2025 23: 11
              Sorry, I made a slight mistake. Is it correct in Russian?
      2. +2
        20 August 2025 07: 19
        I would add that Condor, Epervier, Faucon and Vautour became the forerunners of patrol ships.

        I disagree. The mine cruisers of the 1880s were a direction that turned out to be a dead end at that technological level. Over time, thanks to technical progress, mine cruisers received an indirect continuation in the form of scout cruisers of the dreadnought era. Just like steam mine/torpedo boats - in the steam era, their development went in the direction of torpedo boat/counter-torpedo boat/destroyer, but in the era of internal combustion engines, they suddenly received an indirect continuation in the form of torpedo boats with internal combustion engines.
        Destroyers - development of destroyers

        This is a gem!))) Or are you just kidding?
        1. 0
          20 August 2025 10: 53
          Quote: Pan Vaclav
          I disagree. The mine cruisers of the 1880s were a direction that turned out to be a dead end at that technological level. Over time, thanks to technical progress, mine cruisers received an indirect continuation in the form of scout cruisers of the dreadnought era.

          If we consider the French fleet, then in principle both you and Vladislav are right, the first "aviso" were considered as coastal gunboats and stationers. But the name "Canonnières de station" was not accepted, so these ships became "aviso". Later, with a change in views, they were divided into two classes "Torpilleurs-avisos" and "Torpilleurs-éclaireurs". There was also a class of "Avisos transports" they could perform the role of stationers, small transports, messenger ships, and take part in the shelling of enemy ports and field coastal fortifications, since they were armed with 4-140 mm guns.
          1. +1
            22 August 2025 21: 59
            The 1st class "Kersen" aviso can also be recalled.
            1. 0
              23 August 2025 10: 48
              Quote: Maxim G
              The 1st class "Kersen" aviso can also be recalled.

              Well, the French are still those "inventors", by the time the 1st class "Kersen" aviso appeared, views had not changed much;
              " The aviso occupies a middle position between the squadron scout and the gunboat, closer in size to the former. It is a vessel for sailing on the open sea, and it must have genuine seaworthiness. Its artillery usually consists of three or five guns of 100 mm and 140 mm caliber, and several small-caliber guns.."
              So, the views of the French changed periodically, as did those of other countries.
              1. 0
                23 August 2025 10: 53
                Specifically this aviso and later diesel "Bougainvilleas" for service in the colonies: comfortable conditions for the crews.
                1. 0
                  23 August 2025 11: 39
                  Quote: Maxim G
                  This particular advice note

                  It was not for nothing that I called the French "inventors"; the term "aviso" is a flexible concept.
                  Le croiseur Kersaint (1895-1919). (Photo Marine nationale).
                  1. 0
                    30 August 2025 10: 26
                    Why did you replace that?
                    The ship itself is not bad.
  3. +1
    19 August 2025 09: 00
    The problem was that by the beginning of the Russian Nuclear War, mine cruisers, including those in the Far East, were obsolete and practically did not participate in it. Therefore, we cannot say whether they were good or bad. At that time, many fleets were looking for new methods and means, and the RIF did not pass the test.
    1. -2
      21 August 2025 07: 40
      The torpedo gunboats did quite a bit of fighting:
      The Chilean Almirante Lynch sank the rebellious Chilean battleship (armored frigate) Blanco Encalada (former Valparpaiso) in April 1891.
      The Brazilian Gustavo Sampaio sank the rebellious Brazilian battleship Akibadan in April 1894.
      1. 0
        21 August 2025 11: 07
        Well, of course, the Latin American fleets are powerful))) the British are nervously smoking on the sidelines.
        They heated their own antiques))) not good, they could have left them for a museum.
        1. 0
          21 August 2025 11: 32
          And how does this cancel out the fact that in the 1890s mine cruisers were quite adequate ships for their tasks, which, in addition to torpedo attacks, were quite suitable for squadron service with battleships (short-range reconnaissance, patrol and messenger service). In the Black Sea Fleet, Saken, Kazarsky and Griden were used for a long time as scout cruisers with battleships, since modern cruisers did not appear in the Black Sea Fleet soon.
          1. 0
            21 August 2025 12: 06
            That's why they were used, because there were no normal cruisers. However, with their performance characteristics, they still could not perform cruising functions, it's good that the Black Sea is not large.
            1. 0
              21 August 2025 12: 24
              You yourself write:
              Therefore, we cannot say whether they were good or bad.

              And I will explain to you literally "on my fingers" with examples that in the 1880s-1890s, mine cruisers (torpedo gunboats) were quite adequate ships for their tasks, but future destroyers became a development of torpedo boats, and not mine cruisers.
              1. 0
                21 August 2025 12: 39
                Adequate to sink South American antiques? Perhaps. But you and I are, in fact, for the RYaV, in which the two Russian mine cruisers simply did not participate.
                1. -1
                  21 August 2025 12: 45
                  RYAV, in which two Russian mine cruisers simply did not participate

                  Participated. Patrol and guard service, minesweeping. And if the RYaV had happened ten years earlier, then the Russian mine cruisers would have fought for their intended purpose.
                  1. 0
                    21 August 2025 12: 46
                    Is minesweeping a function of a mine cruiser? Any port vessel would have been sufficient to combat the mines of that time.
                    1. 0
                      21 August 2025 13: 00
                      In the besieged base they used what they had. And in the outer roadstead in fresh weather you can't sweep much with a steam launch - here you need a larger ship and one that is fast enough to have time to cut off the sweeps and take cover in the base when the enemy appears.
                      1. 0
                        21 August 2025 13: 49
                        Port facilities are not only barges. Tugs, self-propelled lighters. There are many things in the port economy. In case of enemy appearance there is a patrol and coastal batteries.
                    2. 0
                      24 August 2025 14: 35
                      At that time, no navy in the world had minesweepers, so everything that was suitable and not a pity was used for minesweeping.
                      1. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 51
                        So isn't it easier to use something non-combat for these purposes? Much cheaper, in case of an explosion.
                      2. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 52
                        This is something that needs to be found and adapted. And it needs to have enough strength to pull the trawl.
                      3. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 54
                        In sweat there will always be five different boats, in those days trawls were not as heavy and large as later. Mines were small and structurally not very complex.
                      4. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 55
                        So these little ships didn't exist...
                      5. 0
                        24 August 2025 14: 58
                        Unfortunately, I have not seen any data on the Port Arthur port vessels or auxiliary units of the 1st TOE. Although they existed, because they carried coal, boiler water, shells, etc. to the ships. Therefore, I can neither agree with you nor disagree.
  4. +1
    19 August 2025 09: 16
    Interesting article.
    All four mine avisos were commissioned in January 1883 and were named Condor, Epervier, Faucon and Vautour. They were small armored cruisers with a long ram, one funnel and three masts, one of which was later dismantled. The armament... It was serious: five 100 mm guns, four 47 mm and six 37 mm Hotchkiss guns and four torpedo tubes. But it was considered too powerful for destroying destroyers!

    These ships did not belong to the class of mine warfare avisos, and the destruction of enemy destroyers was not the main task for these ships. These ships belonged to the class of "Torpilleurs-éclaireurs" whose main task was reconnaissance and detection of the enemy.
  5. 0
    19 August 2025 12: 50
    The Navy Ministry transferred two mine cruisers for the Far East to the Finnish Creighton plant in Abo. In 1893, they were launched under the names "Gaydamak" and "Vsadnik", previously used on clippers.
    Let me remind you that Finland was part of the Russian Empire until 1917.
    "Gaydamak" ( "Shikinami" since 7.10.1905/1892/22). In:m Creighton and Co., Abo, Grand Duchy of Finland. Construction began in 1893. Launched on July 1894, 20 (along with the official keel laying). Commissioned in July 1904. Scuttled by the crew in Port Arthur on the night of December XNUMX, XNUMX.
    Raised by the Japanese. Renamed "Shikinami". Commissioned 1906. Decommissioned 1914. Dismantled


    "Vsadnik" ("Makigumo" since 7.10.1905). In:m Creighton and Co., Abo, Grand Duchy of Finland. Construction began 1892. Launched July 1893. Commissioned 1894. Sank on December 2, 1904 in the inner roadstead of Port Arthur. Raised by the Japanese. Renamed "Makigumo". Commissioned 1906. Decommissioned 1914. Dismantled.
  6. 0
    19 August 2025 16: 12
    And in the last photo there is already someone from the Black Sea "Noviks" and it looks like he is from the "Ushakov" series.
  7. 0
    19 August 2025 23: 37
    Mine cruiser "Vsadnik"

    An American flag can be seen on it.
    Mine cruiser "Griden"

    Mine cruiser "Abrek"

    And on them is the British Union Jack.
    It's not entirely clear...
    1. +1
      29 August 2025 16: 24
      Quote from solar
      And on them is the British Union Jack.
      It's not entirely clear...

      This is the jack - it's on the nose. smile
      1. 0
        30 August 2025 23: 03
        The presence of the American flag does not explain this.
  8. 0
    22 October 2025 08: 44
    with standard displacement

    Probably normal, though. The concept of standard displacement was only introduced in Washington and is a somewhat artificial value. Many steamships would capsize if anyone were foolish enough to let them out to sea in such a condition.