Europe in the crescents

327
Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe. "Vesti" they write that mosques are being built in Greece, Spain, Germany. In Ireland, one of the largest Muslim temples is being built - for 64 million euros. Megame-cheek will soon be built in Belgian Liege: with a library, café, shops. Giant cult complex worth 40 million euros will soon replenish Munich. Even the Greek bankrupt government is going to spend a million euros to build the first official mosque in Athens. One after another, minarets grow in Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Spain. What is going on? In essence, nothing new: the same European Islamization.

Greece stands out against the background of other countries for the construction of mosques. Note that in this country a grave economic crisis is rampant; this country needs constant credit injections from the EU; in this country not so long ago, some elections followed others, riots in the cities, young people threw Molotov cocktails at policemen, thieves robbed shops, banks and temples, and some barbarians cut down the remnants of Plato's olive oil - just for firewood.

Islam News, referring to the newspaper "Ethnos", reports that the Athens authorities are going to build one or even two mosques in each area of ​​the city. Fifteen Muslim temples may appear in the capital of Greece at once.

The road to the large-scale construction of mosques is opened by the construction of a central mosque. At a meeting of the city council, the mayor of Athens, Yorgos Kaminis, said: “The creation of a central mosque will make it possible to impose order in the work of the chapels, which now work unofficially, and to build one or two mosques in each city district.”

The mayor also said that this issue was raised by him at a recent meeting with the Minister of Education.

At the construction of the mosque (by the way, the cost of construction is estimated at almost a million euros) insisted living in the Muslim community, numbering more than 300 thousands of members. The construction was opposed by Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, who applied to the State Council with a demand to recognize the law on the construction of a mosque approved by parliament as “completely anti-constitutional and anti-Greek”.

Expert IA "REX", political scientist and historian, candidate historical Lev Vershinin also spoke on the topic of European Islamization. He stopped just at Greece, highlighting a number of features here.

Greece is a very special case, says the historian. According to its Basic Law (Section II, article 3), “the religion that dominates Greece is the religion of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ. The Orthodox Church of Greece, which recognizes Jesus Christ as its head, is inextricably linked in its dogmas with the Great Church of Constantinople and with every other one Church of Christ, unswervingly, as well as they, the holy apostolic and conciliar canons and sacred traditions ", and" The church regime existing in certain areas of the state does not contradict the provisions of the preceding paragraph ”, and, until recently, the construction of“ non-Orthodox and other prayer houses ”was extremely difficult, and in maintenance of mosques (ie the worship buildings with minarets) was forbidden by law. The preamble to the Constitution is short: instead of a series of pompous phrases, only "In the name of the Holy, Unified and Divisible Trinity".

Greek legislation, says Comrade Vershinin, is a unique precedent in the Christian world. It is based on a direct appeal to the Creator in its Eastern Orthodox interpretation. The latter is understood as the core of the unity of the Greek people and their statehood, which corresponds to the worldview of the overwhelming majority of Greeks.

Comparing this fact with information about the construction of a mosque in Athens and the plans of the mayor’s office in the near future to build another dozen more “prayer houses with minarets”, draw conclusions, the historian concludes.

Thus, Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, who declared about unconstitutional, knew what he was talking about.

Go ahead.

According to "DELFI"referring to “EuropeNews” and the portal Semitsa.ru, the former Kapernaumsky church in Hamburg will be converted into a mosque. In Scotland, the episcopal parish of St. John in Aberdeen became the first in Britain to agree to share their premises with Muslims. They can pray there in church five times a day.

In the Basque town of Portugalete (Spain) 21 March, Muslims opened a mosque. According to statistics, every fourth Basque is against the construction of mosques in his area, and every fifth would not like to have a Muslim neighbor, the data "DELFI". The mosque was open despite protests from local residents,

In Valencia, the Ahmadi community has opened a new mosque 29 in March. The spiritual leader of the community Hazrat Mirza Masrour Ahmad said that, according to his information, in two decades the number of Muslims in Spain will double. There is a possibility that Islam will again dominate the country.

And in tolerant France a mosque was opened for sexual minorities in November last year. There is no separation between men and women. Joint prayers are held in the hall in the Buddhist chapel.

Pavel Svyatenkov (KM.ru) asked a question: how serious is the problem of Islamization? The author singled out two of its factors: the high birth rate, the reinforcing role of Islam in Europe, and the fact that modern Muslim countries are outside European civilization, that is, in fact, are in relation to Europeans in a state of barbarism. The journalist considers barbarism “the use of technologies of civilization against civilization itself without a profound change in its own society”. Some leader buys swords from Rome and then uses them against Rome. Russian people of pre-Peter the Great in Europe were also considered barbarians. China was barbaric during the reign of Mao Zedong. To the current barbaric states, the author referred North Korea. The problem of Islamic states, the journalist notes, is that “they have not yet succeeded in creating an acceptable political model for them - such that people can live in accordance with the Koran, but at the same time in modern society”. As an unpopular example, the author calls Iran, both a modern and an Islamic state at the same time. But in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood came to power, there are big problems: how to manage the country, the lion's share of the income of which is brought by tourism? After all, according to the norms of Islam, women should be wrapped up from head to toe.

According to Comrade Svyatenkov, Muslims should find their own model of building a modern society that will allow them to get out of the state of barbarism, located on the outskirts of European civilization. After all, Islam was not always in a similar condition. The medieval Muslim civilization was higher in level than the European one.

“Europeans should not build Europe with mosques, but help Muslims find themselves and make a civilizational transition. As fertility declines, Muslims will increasingly resemble Europeans. The Muslimization of Europe in the present circumstances does not solve the problem of transition to civilization and, moreover, slows down this transition.

It is on this European experience that the “dear Russians” should also think about, who are also being offered in a massive order to start building huge mosques and importing migrants. Not the construction of mosques and the importation of Muslim citizens of other states, but the creation of conditions for the transition of the world of Islam to modern civilization - this is a real task, the solution of which should be addressed to the “whole world”.


Yes, just add on our own, an extremely atomized, individualized world does not want to engage in solving real problems. To adapt as best as possible, to snatch a piece as much as possible, and after us even the grass does not grow, this is the only task that the current members of European societies have more or less successfully accomplished in a narrow timeframe, starting with their rulers.

As for the "importation of Muslim citizens", then they do not need to be imported. They themselves will come and settle themselves. Regarding Russia about this recently wrote on "VO" wonderful journalist Alexey Volodin.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
327 comments
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  1. +17
    April 18 2013 07: 56
    The issue is not idle and it must be resolved on a state basis and only so ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      +51
      April 18 2013 08: 08
      Try to build a temple in Mecca in Saudi Arabia and produce a prayer service in the central square. There will be nothing to bury. Smeared on the pavement. We have minarets with a crescent already erected above the Orthodox churches. Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim fraternity.
      1. +6
        April 18 2013 08: 28
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.

        the constitution enshrines the right to religious freedom. so at the legislative level most likely will fail. Remember how much noise there was with a ban on wearing a hijab in schools
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 09: 45
          not only religion is enshrined in the constitution ... but also equality. Those. If you want to build a mosque ... no problem ... but at the beginning, build an Orthodox church, a Catholic cathedral and a synagogue and do not forget about the Buddhist temple.
          1. -1
            April 18 2013 10: 00
            minus... a wonderful indicator of tolerance and equality of religion !!!!
          2. +3
            April 18 2013 10: 06
            Quote: Strashila
            but in the beginning, build an Orthodox church, a Catholic cathedral and a synagogue and do not forget about the Buddhist temple.
            With logic, it’s not very good for you ... But why didn’t the Orthodox build a mosque? Or Catholics or Jews? Each hare wears only his ears and if the Orthodox don’t have money to build churches this is a problem for the Orthodox ...
          3. +2
            April 19 2013 03: 57
            orthodox church, catholic cathedral
            Who will go there? Most of the Muslims are primitive, they said kill the unbeliever and you will go to heaven - approx. And everything is simple and good. Yes, and the Middle Eastern peoples somehow stick together from the beginning, support each other and are not afraid to give birth to children. The European is an individual personality. He has a common sense, the right to education and life blah blah blah ... and the world is competition, you have to drown your neighbor in order to save your life. Most Russians now live with this idea. Whatever "love your neighbor" is, rather "snatch while it lies." Russians become one nation when Hitler comes, or Napoleon or Poles. And so we just walk candles for repose, and that's all our faith. It's a shame.
        2. +3
          April 18 2013 12: 28
          self-propelled: People need to say their word !!! If the men come out and say that we don’t need a mosque, roughly speaking, under the windows, they won’t build ... And with the tacit consent they will build not only a mosque, but also a lot of things ...
          1. Patriot of Russia
            +6
            April 18 2013 19: 44
            Quote: baron.nn
            The people need to say their word !!! If the men come out and say that we do not need a mosque, roughly speaking, under the windows, then they will not build ...

            such actions took place in Moscow. the struggle is with varying success. Asian and Caucasian barbarians + police officers against endangered Muscovites Slavs
          2. rereture
            +3
            April 18 2013 21: 45
            The best means of pork carcass or carcass of a pig. In Spain they know.
        3. +1
          April 19 2013 07: 11
          the constitution enshrines the right to freedom of religion. so at the legislative level most likely will fail. Remember how much noise there was with a ban on wearing a hijab in schools
          Then you need to change such legislation.
      2. +9
        April 18 2013 09: 18
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.

        Our lawmakers are also building mosques to the full. So it won’t work out. When the patience of the people bursts, then these built mosques in Russia will be dismantled for bricks. Our government will not pay attention to this issue until the people stand on their hind legs.
        1. +12
          April 18 2013 10: 10
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Our legislators, too, are building mosques to the fullest. So it will not work.
          Sasha, you distort ... Lawmakers do not build, they just do not know how ... bully But the increase in the number of Muslims in our cities forces us to allow the construction of mosques. Freedom of religion ... The Constitution of the Russian Federation. By the way, Orthodox churches and Catholic churches are being built in our Muslim republics (Kazan, for example)
          In general, babies need to give birth more. Then there will be no problems
          1. Yarbay
            0
            April 18 2013 11: 33
            Quote: domokl
            Sasha, you distort ... Lawmakers do not build, they just do not know how ... But the increase in the number of Muslims in our cities forces us to build mosques. Religious freedom ... The Constitution of the Russian Federation. By the way, Orthodox churches and Catholic churches are being built in our Muslim republics. cathedrals (Kazan for example)

            The thing is different, not the mosques danger!
            We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!
            Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!
            1. 0
              April 18 2013 12: 25
              Quote: Yarbay
              We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!

              How cannon fodder for Dagestan Wahhabis?
            2. +3
              April 18 2013 12: 51
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              But how, the people are full, there is not enough space.
              1. +1
                April 19 2013 04: 05
                We have in Blagoveshchensk (Far East), the church is jam-packed. He was replaced by the Episcopate and somehow ceased to make noise that priests in jeeps and people in the Church were stretched to recall the faith of the Fathers. I am happy.
            3. +6
              April 18 2013 13: 48
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              Hi, Alibek! Believe there are not three grandmothers, there are a lot of people, if you are in Russia, come and see. and as regards Medersa or whatever they are ........ well, we don’t need them!
              1. +6
                April 18 2013 18: 27
                Greetings to all, Alibek correctly said that it is better to build madrassas, and so that they do not have visitors who propagandize Bachabism or something else, but our imams, of a moderate Islamic nature. Our imams in Kazakhstan spoke about this so that the youth’s head wasn’t fooled, that our people didn’t go to Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, but studied in their cities where they live. Thus, the problem of Islamic extremism will be solved.
            4. +2
              April 18 2013 19: 07
              Quote: Yarbay
              We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!
              There are madrasahs in Muslim regions ... Just like Orthodox seminaries in Christian regions ... They just try to go to study to the sources anyway. And this is far from Russia or even the countries of the former USSR
              1. Yarbay
                +2
                April 19 2013 08: 40
                Quote: domokl
                There are madrasahs in Muslim regions ... Just like Orthodox seminaries in Christian regions ... They just try to go to study to the sources anyway. And this is far from Russia or even the countries of the former USSR

                Because study is not up to standard !!
                To create a university where to invite the best scientists from around the world, then they will not seek to leave and study in dubious educational institutions!
            5. YuDDP
              +1
              April 19 2013 00: 10
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              You are mistaken, dear. They go to church much more. And not only grandmothers, but also young boys and girls. Of course, there is no such show as the Muslims. Actually, this is a feature of the Slavs. But this does not mean that all are unbelievers.
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                April 19 2013 08: 49
                Quote: YuDDP
                You are mistaken, dear. They go to church much more. And not only grandmothers, but also young boys and girls.

                Dear pritenziya not to me !!
                I'm not mistaken!


                see from 3.30
          2. +3
            April 19 2013 04: 03
            About children I completely agree! But for some reason, my friends are not that 2-3 children do not want, but they do not even crave ONE. My wife and I want three, although one is hard, but we will try all the same. :) Russia needs more Russians.
            1. Eric
              0
              April 24 2013 23: 52
              Quote: dejavu
              and one is hard, but still we will try. :) Russia needs more Russians


              Worthy answer!
        2. +2
          April 19 2013 07: 31
          Our government will not pay attention to this issue until the people stand on their hind legs.
          Then you need to stand on its hind legs now, while the Slavs remained in this country and until the whole country was built up with mosques. And then we, as usual, while harnessing our horses so it will be too late.
      3. +2
        April 18 2013 12: 26
        Captain Vrungel: Saudi Arabia professes not traditional Islam. As far as I understand, there seems to be a Muslim sect.
      4. 0
        April 18 2013 16: 19
        I have the right recipe for getting rid of this invasion. As soon as construction begins, or at least a place is chosen, it is necessary to drench this place abundantly with the blood of a freshly cut pig and scatter the remains of the animal throughout the object. Take a detailed picture of the process and distribute the video to the largest possible audience. And just business.
        1. 0
          April 19 2013 11: 27
          "trousers" have already pointed out how many minuses :-) Go ask "Alla to the bar" :-)
      5. +1
        April 18 2013 19: 09
        For some reason, everyone writes that it is necessary to resolve the issue at the legislative level. So everything is decided at the legislative level in favor of the construction of mega-mosques and the Islamization of the state. Moreover, the radicalization of Islamization. It's scary for the children!
      6. 755962
        +2
        April 19 2013 11: 22
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.
    2. vadimus
      +13
      April 18 2013 09: 35
      Without war, Europe was eaten. Not by washing, so by skating. While they are discussing gay marriage, .....
      1. +8
        April 18 2013 14: 40
        Quote: vadimus
        Without war, Europe ate

        Here on the forum I read about Germany:
        On the bus (in Germany, nowadays) several young people of Arab nationality ride and shamelessly talking to anyone loudly:
        "There are already more than two million of us, soon we will arrange Sharia here as a state law ..."
        The Germans next to the bus ride in silence, listen ... There is a stop, an elderly grandmother gets off the bus and passing by the Arabs stops and turns to them and says:
        "In the 38th year we had more than 6 million Jews, in two years we solved this problem ..."
        1. +3
          April 18 2013 16: 57
          Quote: ziqzaq
          There is a stop, an elderly grandmother gets out of the bus and passing by the Arabs stops and turns to them and says:
          "In the 38th year we had more than 6 million Jews, in two years we solved this problem ..."

          Of course the solution.
          In Yavrop, political correctness is vaccinated from the hospital.
          The trouble is that politically correct "fils" don't care about who will carry out proctological prophylaxis to them.
        2. +5
          April 18 2013 21: 00
          Quote: ziqzaq
          On the bus (in Germany, nowadays) several young people of Arab nationality ride and shamelessly talking to anyone loudly:


          While in Germany in 2011, he traveled to Stadbahn with a friend. a mother with a baby was sitting next to her, a company of young people of Arab ethnicity came in (or Pakistani knows hell) and they began to discuss something in their own way, the child woke up and cried, and the mother asked them to politely be modest. almost zero emotions, only condescending smiles .. Then my friend gets up and says this company in a great and mighty sacramental phrase-you !? in = Russian it was said to shut up. Who has hearing problems here? In the ear came into the throat .. The company of these guys 6 people (probably with stray) and us two unarmed scared moved into another car ... The Germans who worked with us said that we had such an outfit that they mistook us for Russian bandits.
          1. 0
            April 18 2013 22: 01
            Quote: Ascetic
            guys 6 people (probably with stray)

            Stray, this is the clitoris.
            1. +2
              April 18 2013 22: 30
              Quote: Uncle
              Stray, this is the clitoris.


              There are a lot of meanings according to Dahl and slang .. In this case, it means an accessory in the form of any cold steel or firearm
    3. Nevsky
      +7
      April 18 2013 10: 09
      And in tolerant France a mosque was opened for sexual minorities in November last year. There is no separation between men and women. Joint prayers are held in the hall in the Buddhist chapel.


      Ept .... bring me back to the 90s wassat
      1. zambo
        +1
        April 18 2013 11: 26
        Ept .... bring me back to the 90s


        ... agree, 19th century ...
    4. -9
      April 18 2013 19: 51
      yes it is necessary at the state level to recognize that Christianity as a religion and its clergy have reached an impasse and pass a law on coercion to convert Russians to Islam to do how Christians did with our original religion to destroy churches icons and crucifixes in rivers
      Quote: svp67
      The issue is not idle and it must be resolved on a state basis and only so.
      1. +1
        April 19 2013 04: 24
        Be careful flawed.
    5. Reasonable, 2,3
      0
      April 19 2013 01: 17
      Allah uma mind ....... Well, trash.
  2. +6
    April 18 2013 08: 00
    Alas, the Islamization of Europe has long been a fact. The tolerance and needs of the economy forced the Europeans to open the borders for the entry of foreigners, and the most prolific Chinese and Arabs turned out to be the most mobile. Now the time has come to pay for it. Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 09: 51
      I wouldn’t mix flies and cutlets ... Tolerance opened the borders, but it was somehow strange and selective (as opposed to the growth of Orthodoxy in Europe) ... and as a result, problems worsened (tell me at what times they were not)
      1. +1
        April 18 2013 10: 03
        Quote: Strashila
        olerance opened borders, but it was somehow strange and selective (as opposed to the growth of Orthodoxy in Europe) ... and as a result, problems worsened (tell me at what times they were not) in the economy
        But what is there to mix? The borders of Europe were open before the collapse of the USSR and the social camp .. And who was supposed to go there? And according to the laws of European countries, children born on their territory receive citizenship. And then the famous freedom of conscience and freedom of religion ...
        Problems in the economy were caused precisely by the lack of workers .. Just a physical absence. What is happening now, for example, in Moscow.
        By the way, do you have mosques in your city and something has changed? There are Muslims, so there will be mosques .. There’s no getting around it
        1. +11
          April 18 2013 12: 02
          Quote: domokl
          Problems in the economy were caused precisely by the lack of workers.

          We do not have enough workers, and we are forced to import migrants?
          Lies, Alexander. We have a distorted and ugly form of the economy, there are enough workers and no migrants, they are not doing what they need.
          Problems in the economy are caused not by a lack of workers, but by the fact that the system sends these hands to the wrong place. If we have only the number of officials at all levels increases by 40 thousand a year, what can we say about the rest of the non-production sphere.
          By the way, in Moscow. In Moscow there are about 14 million people, of which Russians are only 31%.
          In 2007, the state allocated 800 million rubles for the development of Islam.
          In 2011, the state allocated 7 billion rubles for the establishment of an Islamic university. For an example of agricultural subsidies, 4,8 billion rubles were allocated.
          Our state is secular, the government directly violates the Constitution of the country.
          Putin appealed to the countries of the Islamic Conference to accept Russia there.
          Muslim leaders called for the removal of Orthodox symbolism from the coat of arms of Russia.
          The Muslim community said it needs a vice prime minister who professes Islam.
          Question: Why do religious figures, independently Christian or Muslim, climb into secular state structures under the Constitution of the state?
          1. +3
            April 18 2013 12: 54
            Quote: baltika-18
            Muslim leaders called for the removal of Orthodox symbolism from the coat of arms of Russia.

            This is generally strange, in a democracy a minority is subordinate to the majority, and not vice versa. Muslims are a minority, let them live according to our laws.
          2. Polida
            +1
            April 18 2013 15: 49
            I totally agree with you!!!
          3. 0
            April 18 2013 16: 07
            It seems to me that someone wants to enforce Sharia laws around the world by any means. Some kind of political movement, about religion (from the verb reeligere, that is, to reunite, and religion itself means reunification, the resumption of the once lost union between man and God), few people remember or do not think about it at all. They have territories of the world where Sharia law applies, and there are territories of jihad and territories of temporary cease-fire. soldier
      2. +4
        April 18 2013 10: 28
        Quote: domokl
        Alas, the Islamization of Europe has long been a fact

        Quote: Strashila
        Tolerance opened the borders, but somehow strange and selective (

        I can add only one.
        Christian EUROPE must urgently reconsider its views on its policy of tolerance and multiculturalism! It is now clear enough that these "values" simply do not work! There is still time to put everything on the right track until a critical mass has accumulated.
        Let us openly admit- EUROPE is, first and foremost, the birthplace of Christian culture and it should and must dominate!
        Recently, in the news, they showed how a Muslim patrol (yes, there is such a thing) in England ENGAGED youth kampashki-drinking beer on the street. This is where laughter and sin are.
        And in the worst case that awaits EUROPE is a big KOSOVO!
        1. +3
          April 18 2013 10: 45
          Quote: Arberes
          Christian EUROPE must urgently revise its views on its policy of tolerance and multiculturalism!
          Utopia. Europe is no longer Christian. Europe is secular. And citizens there are not divided by religion. Moreover, Muslims have exactly the same rights as Christians.
          In order to resist the pressure of Islam, it is necessary to completely change the Constitutions of countries and the EU as a whole, it is necessary to deprive citizenship of EU citizens, it is necessary to declare the religious nature of the state ... And all this is impossible ...
          You need to find courage in yourself and admit that Islam is flourishing in Europe, but Christianity (all trends), alas, is leaving. The Christian church itself has now become a laughing stock ... Either women priests, then homosexuals, then pedophiles ... Parishioners are fleeing clergy and from the church ..
          1. +2
            April 18 2013 11: 01
            Quote: domokl
            Utopia. Europe is no longer Christian. Europe is secular

            Yes, you’re right, dear, I expressed myself a little incorrectly.
            But if secular EUROPE wants to stay that way, then we must fully acknowledge all our mistakes and take action.
            And this is really a utopia! Do you think that the situation is stalemate and you can only wait until the trouble starts in different parts of the oldest EUROPE?
            I'd like to know your opinion! hi
          2. +2
            April 18 2013 11: 53
            Quote: domokl
            The Christian church itself has now become a laughing stock ... Either women priests, then homosexuals, then pedophiles ...

            Catholic? Although I am not a Catholic, I am not inclined to laugh at what you call a laughing stock. Here cry fit.
        2. +3
          April 18 2013 12: 59
          Quote: Arberes
          EUROPE is, first and foremost, the birthplace of Christian culture and it should and must be dominated!

          And it’s time for the Russians to understand their place in history, to identify themselves, so to speak. And then we have Orthodox only upon baptism. Here's a look, on May 1, during the strict week of Great Lent, how many drunk men and women with crosses will fry kebabs and thump outdoors! For such neglect, you can pay the war!
          1. YuDDP
            0
            April 19 2013 00: 20
            Uncle, so you can go into endless arguments about the true faith. I came across a car on the road with a sticker: "Orthodoxy or death!" This is not our method. The time will come and they will not fry kebabs during fasting. Or they will, but they will believe. I ask you not to refer to the Synodal text of the Bible ...
    2. Yarbay
      +3
      April 18 2013 11: 34
      Quote: domokl
      And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

      here is the root of the problem!
      it means a lot of indifferent!
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 13: 00
        Quote: Yarbay
        it means a lot of indifferent!

        Do Muslims all truly believe? Formalists - no Pharisees?
        1. Yarbay
          +2
          April 19 2013 11: 56
          Quote: Uncle
          Do Muslims all truly believe? Formalists - no Pharisees?

          You are right, of course there is!
          But you see a quote to which I replied!
          Quote: Uncle
          Here's a look, on May 1, during the strict week of Great Lent, how many drunk men and women with crosses will fry kebabs and thump outdoors!

          this speaks of indifference at least!
    3. 0
      April 18 2013 16: 28
      Reading on the topic: "Notre Dame Mosque Year of issue: 2006 Author: Elena Chudinova Genre: Socio-psychological fantasy"
      1. +1
        April 18 2013 16: 29
        Quote: Defender
        Reading on the topic: "Notre Dame Mosque Year of issue: 2006 Author: Elena Chudinova Genre: Socio-psychological fantasy"

        The hyperboloid was also once a fantasy.
    4. Kostya pedestrian
      0
      April 18 2013 18: 51
      And such features of the named peoples as respectful attitude to your spirit, to your ancestors and to your present and previous leaders and respected people of your people, regardless of whether the West approves or not.

      And we have G.K. Zhukov was almost an executioner who killed millions of Soviet soldiers. Comrade Stalin was turned from a genius-reformer of Russia into almost a Russophobe monster. And so, almost all the great people who have increased both the tangible wealth of Russia as new lands and works of art, and intangible as the reform of the Bolsheviks, led by V. Lenin.

      But people who had nothing to do with Russia, like, for example, the son of man, is a guiding cross even for the military. And everything would be fine, but sincerely pitying this man, I cannot help but notice the fact that how can you learn from the actions of a person who gathered not only a traitor near her and did not open it in time, which is detrimental to success in the army, but also people who personally saw all these incredible miracles about which we only read and believe, and abandoned this person, i.e. also betraying his leader-god.

      And what about Saavl, who first tortured hundreds of Christians to death, and then, according to forged documents with a new name, like a "Suvorov soup set", went over to the side of the enemy and began to organize riots against the government and the country.

      But Judas is sorry, because the son of man knew what fate awaits him if he goes after him, but still he persuaded him, thereby condemning the unfortunate to .... failure.

      ... for lovers of conspiracy theory, type the word belt, which means the belt in English, after switching to the Russian layout, and now remember that the Greeks brought to Moscow before our team lost the World Cup with shame.

      No, let me better than the stars illuminate the path. Yes, and once lost in the mountains, the cross was useless, but the full moon came to the rescue. Yes, and exercises in Chinese gymnastics.

      I do not convince anyone of anything, but as Yulian Semyonov said: "information for reflection"
      PieS: as a rule, all great personalities have always been neutral in relation to religion, whether it be Peter 1, Suvorov, Lenin or Zhukov with Chernyakhovsky.
      1. 0
        April 20 2013 00: 16
        [quote = Kostya the pedestrian] And such features of the peoples you named as respectful attitude to your spirit, to your ancestors and to your current and previous leaders and respected people of your people, regardless whether the West approves or not.
      2. 0
        April 20 2013 00: 56
        "A respectful attitude to one's spirit, one's ancestors and to one's present and previous leaders and respected people of their people" all this was not inherent in the "reformer" V.I. Lenin and others like Him.
        Only completely deranged “democrats” like Baba Lero believe in fairy tales about "Zhukov the man-eater". But another "genius-reformer" Stalin was not a Russophobe (I agree with you here), he was simply very afraid of losing the throne, so he "killed everyone who looked askance."
        But the Son of man, just has the most direct relation to Russia, because our state was formed, precisely, as a Christian.
        And about Judah, you in vain, Jesus did not know about His future betrayal, so he persuaded.
        As for the neutrality of the greats, you are also mistaken: Peter I himself assumed the duties of the head of the church, Suvorov - a zealous Christian, Lenin - a militant atheist ....
        "Yes, and once lost in the mountains, the cross turned out to be useless," according to your faith, you will be, and you are an unbeliever. And the cross is not good for compasses. smile
        1. +3
          April 20 2013 01: 22
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Only completely deranged “democrats” like Baba Lero believe in fairy tales about "Zhukov the man-eater". But another "genius-reformer" Stalin was not a Russophobe (I agree with you here), he was simply very afraid of losing the throne, so he "killed everyone who looked askance."

          A strange mixture of theology with a poor knowledge of the history of their country.
          Not even a minus - no one.
          negative
  3. enot555
    0
    April 18 2013 08: 08
    the geyropeytsy themselves are to blame, did not behave like tolerasts everything would be okay
  4. +2
    April 18 2013 08: 08
    Tolerasti brought Europe! who pays and orders music, and Greece is in no position to refuse money
  5. enot555
    +3
    April 18 2013 08: 09
    the geyropeytsy themselves are to blame, did not behave like tolerasts and everything would be alright. pros .. if all that is possible
  6. +3
    April 18 2013 08: 12
    We would not get bogged down in Islam. Based on our fertility, this option cannot be ruled out.
    Much here depends on us.
    1. +3
      April 18 2013 12: 10
      Based on our fertility, this option cannot be ruled out.

      Well, proceed! wink Who's stopping something? Difficulties? So it is for all difficulties. When in every Russian family there will be at least four children - then the extinction of the people will stop. And he will, at least slowly, but grow.
      1. +3
        April 18 2013 13: 05
        Quote: Kahlan Amnell
        Well, proceed! wink Who's stopping something? Difficulties? So it is for all difficulties.

        That’s the whole point! Most Russians are essentially Europeans. In my head there is only money and pleasure, children are a burden, for which they have 4 children. Women walk, men thump. And Muslims, it’s not a shame to admit it, have preserved moral purity! That's why it is full of children! But God does not give ours! The gender of the fornicator is being suppressed! They did not hear about it!
        1. +1
          April 19 2013 08: 05
          You are absolutely right, Dmitry. The genus of the fornicator is suppressed. For this, they impose on us moral "values" that are incompatible with the spirit of our people. And the result is devastation. Chaos in the heads, chaos in families, chaos in the state, chaos in the country. Who does that? Only our worst and worst enemy!!!
    2. +2
      April 18 2013 16: 16
      Right now, my wife will come, I’ll immediately deal with this issue lol
      1. +1
        April 19 2013 08: 08
        I wish you happiness and success, Alexey! smile Let your family be noble, big, friendly and strong!
  7. Murat 09
    +6
    April 18 2013 08: 23
    Well, again horror stories, the Islamization of Europe, etc. And why should this scare the Russians. Suppose Europe has become Muslim, and that, from this Russia will become worse, or something. Do not forget that it was Europe that attacked Russia for 1000 years (the crusaders in Novgorod, the Polish conquest of Moscow, Napoleon, Hitler, many more can be listed) and killed Russians in tens of millions. But Muslims did not attack Russia (the Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which seized the territory of the Turkish Empire. On the contrary, it was the Muslims who contributed to the salvation of the Moscow Principality in 1399, when Vytautas gathered the 100 thousandth army and went to Russia, it was the Muslims of Temir-Kutlug and Edigey who, at Workle, defeated and slaughtered the army of Vytautas and his crusaders. Then, after a few years, Vitovt again gathered a large army and wanted to go to Russia, then the protégé of Edigey Shadibek sent an equestrian detachment to help the Russians, and Vitovt, remembering Workslou, retreated without a fight. Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the ancestral enemy of our country (Europe) among Russians, it is necessary to rejoice that in Europe there are problems and not sadness !!!
    They are only happy with our problems.
    1. UFO
      +14
      April 18 2013 08: 58
      If you notice that Russia has neither immunity nor well-functioning defense mechanisms against the penetration of customs and principles that are alien to us. What decomposes Europe is gradually being planted in our country too.
      Quote: Murat 09
      Muslims helped save

      Nobody forgot about this, we have been living with our Muslims for hundreds of years, this is not about that. Concerned about the 9th wave of migration and displaying religious affiliation, often not traditional Islam, but its aggressive movements.
      Quote: Murat 09
      Well, here again horror stories, Islamization

      Since you are Murat, this does not bother you, but for us the question is about preserving the gene pool. If the lands of your people were slowly inhabited by, say, blacks from Tanzania, with their cult of VOODU, with the aim of creating the Great State of Bantustan, would it not bother you? All processes on Earth are taking place according to the intentions of the "puppeteers", today Europe - tomorrow Russia, the Muslims will win - they will be pitted against the Chinese, and so on.
      1. +9
        April 18 2013 10: 31
        Quote: UFO
        If you notice that Russia has neither immunity nor well-functioning defense mechanisms against the penetration of customs and principles that are alien to us. What decomposes Europe is gradually being planted in our country too.
        Quote: Murat 09
        Muslims helped save

        Nobody forgot about this, we have been living with our Muslims for hundreds of years, this is not about that. Concerned about the 9th wave of migration and displaying religious affiliation, often not traditional Islam, but its aggressive movements.
        Quote: Murat 09
        Well, here again horror stories, Islamization

        Since you are Murat, this does not bother you, but for us the question is about preserving the gene pool. If the lands of your people were slowly inhabited by, say, blacks from Tanzania, with their cult of VOODU, with the aim of creating the Great State of Bantustan, would it not bother you? All processes on Earth are taking place according to the intentions of the "puppeteers", today Europe - tomorrow Russia, the Muslims will win - they will be pitted against the Chinese, and so on.

        Well, damn it, the Muslim’s fault is that the Russians don’t give birth, don’t scrutinize churches and go to churches a lot. We all live in Russia, there aren’t awesome benefits here, like in Europe that Russians work, and Muslims give birth as a result of benefits, Russian earn more than Muslims it’s not a clash of religions, it’s just that Russian, instead of becoming more Christian, becomes more European, that is, thinks about itself, more and more people become atheists, and all the attendant to it. I, on the contrary, are more impressed by people who are really Christians, there are several friends who go to church, observe all fasts and rituals, wonderful and humble people, than these thumped club atheistic canoes, which are getting bigger.
        Therefore, what is the fault of Muslims that Christians do not give birth, do not go to church, I did not understand.
        1. +3
          April 18 2013 12: 24
          ... more and more people are becoming atheists ...

          Because people are being forced upon religionrather than vaccinated faith.
          Remember what the comedian Zadornov said? Take a look.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImsXvBPUxE
        2. Murat 09
          0
          April 18 2013 12: 54
          Ali’s 1000 pluses, I’ll add from myself, I know several faithful Christians, they have a gene pool in their order, several children in the family, I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he’s doing fine with demographics.
          1. +3
            April 18 2013 13: 41
            Quote: Murat 09
            I know a Russian guy who converted to Islam

            Here you are again about earthly things, about wives, etc. But our holy fathers say this: a Hindu who lives according to his Indian faith is saved, but a Christian who has adopted Buddhism does not. So think about whether your friend will be saved? After all, if you do not talk about saving the soul, then talking about faith is meaningless. Then it’s worth talking about lifestyle.
            1. +1
              April 18 2013 16: 43
              I do not agree with you Dmitry.
              Quote: Uncle
              Quote: Murat 09
              I know a Russian guy who converted to Islam

              But our holy fathers say this: a Hindu who lives by his Indian faith is saved, but a Christian who has accepted Buddhism is not. So think about whether your friend will be saved? .

              Then we need to remember where Christianity came from. I had to see church programs where Russian priests told how they suggested introducing scripture lessons at school. They met opposition in the form:
              - Well then, let's conduct classes to study other holy books of other religions.
              - Well, why do we need Russianalien religions and learning
              them - so our priests answered.
              It's not that the Arab will become a Buddhist, but a Japanese Muslim, you yourself are talking about the factor of faith. If you believe in your god, you will be saved. I also heard about Russians who converted to Islam, so Caucasians (Chechens in particular) say that more true they still need to search.
              But in general, the problem in my opinion is that Islam is much more aggressive than Christianity, which, with its indulgence, led to the decomposition of the image of the righteous Christian.
              1. +1
                April 18 2013 17: 34
                It is not that the Russian will accept Islam or become crash. But that Russia is entrusted to the Russian people, the bearer of the Orthodox faith. Other religions cannot dominate this land. This will be a violation of the divine principles, just as a fish lives in water, so Orthodoxy should dominate in Russia. Not even Catholicism or other movements in Christianity.
                1. 0
                  April 18 2013 18: 32
                  Here I’m talking about the same thing. It’s possible to approach from the position of paganism (which is much older than Christianity) and say:
                  - Perun cursed us for treason, and we will not have a clear vision of our path until we return to the true (native) gods.
                  Christianity has been dominating for how long on this earth, although there are people who say that Christianity is a religion alien to us Russians.
                  In light of the foregoing, I will assume that all this stirring is only the struggle of individual "holy" personalities for the flock. That the Christian Jesus, that the Islamic Isa, there is no difference, there is only a difference between people who worship this messenger of God.
                  And about what should dominate in Russia, I can say that in the 17 year Christianity also lost to another ideology (everyone knows), and it lost ideologically.
            2. Kostya pedestrian
              0
              April 18 2013 19: 13
              Why are you talking about salvation? We have not been sunk yet, and the ship is moving, and, given the greenhouse effect, there are no icebergs on our way.

              And remember, a citizen of the Russian Federation will not be saved only in one case of "betrayal of the Motherland", or a crime with the hearth or with violence against the defenseless.

              I’ll go better than 100 grams and I’m sorry if I disagree, in no case did not want to offend your feelings.
          2. +1
            April 18 2013 14: 04
            Quote: Murat 09
            Ali’s 1000 pluses, I’ll add from myself, I know several faithful Christians, they have a gene pool in their order, several children in the family, I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he’s doing fine with demographics.

            SPS) I have 2 friends of Russian guys who accepted Islam, and 1 was with me. A classmate, a master of sports in sambo, also helps in the church, a true Christian, a dear person, and knows all the details of Islam.
          3. +2
            April 18 2013 15: 28
            Quote: Murat 09
            I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he has everything in order with demography.

            Murat, unfortunately your acquaintance instead of his forehead, thinks with his pubis. What is allowed in eternity is not allowed to mortals.
            1. Murat 09
              0
              April 18 2013 19: 22
              What does this have to do with it, I talked about demography, that Russian believers are fine with it, and that the Russian people have problems with it, that is ideology, and Muslims are not to blame for this.
    2. +4
      April 18 2013 09: 24
      Quote: Murat 09
      And Muslims did not attack Russia

      But you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either according to theirs or a bullet.
      Quote: Murat 09
      .Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians, I must be glad that Europe is a problem and not sad !!!

      you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - that’s gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.
      1. +1
        April 18 2013 10: 35
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Murat 09
        And Muslims did not attack Russia

        But you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either according to theirs or a bullet.
        Quote: Murat 09
        .Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians, I must be glad that Europe is a problem and not sad !!!

        you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - that’s gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.

        So what is the fault of the Muslims that Europe and Russia have a decline in faith ?? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 10: 58
          Quote: Yeraz
          So what is the fault of Muslims

          In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!
          Quote: Yeraz
          ? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.

          Yeah, they’ll come, especially looking at YouTube videos with screams of Allahu Akbar negative
          1. +4
            April 18 2013 11: 16
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            So what is the fault of Muslims

            In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!
            Quote: Yeraz
            ? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.

            Yeah, they’ll come, especially looking at YouTube videos with screams of Allahu Akbar negative

            It’s your quality to inflate, to speak of small episodes as global. Firstly, it is a common monastery, Russia with the accession of the Tatars cannot be considered purely Christian, and, moreover, with other Muslim republics in its composition.
            about the second in which Muslims establish their own rules ??? Yes, you can tell other forms of behavior in Chechnya and Dagestan, and there are rules in clothes, so they can say this is my monastery. That's because they plant Muslim women in Russia, force Russian girls into Dressing latki, praying to everyone, do not eat pork. So that people build themselves mosques at their own expense and are praying to pray is this called enforcing their own rules?
            Regarding the cutting of the Hola with the glories of Allah Akbar, to which you refer already several times. First, find out the number of how many civilians of Chechens were killed, secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and that all this billion cut their heads and dream, as if more cut off one Christian head ???
            1. Yarbay
              +2
              April 18 2013 11: 38
              Quote: Yeraz
              It’s your quality to inflate, to speak of small episodes as global. Firstly, it is a common monastery, Russia with the accession of the Tatars cannot be considered purely Christian, and, moreover, with other Muslim republics in its composition.
              about the second in which Muslims establish their own rules ??? Yes, you can tell other forms of behavior in Chechnya and Dagestan, and there are rules in clothes, so they can say this is my monastery. That's because they plant Muslim women in Russia, force Russian girls into Dressing latki, praying to everyone, do not eat pork. So that people build themselves mosques at their own expense and are praying to pray is this called enforcing their own rules?

              Then I agree with you !!
              Speak correctly !!
              1. dmb
                +1
                April 18 2013 20: 53
                And it seems to me that you in vain agreed with him, Alibek. Cutting off heads, ears and fingers is an abomination, no matter who it is committed. To kill the enemy in battle is one thing., To kill by mocking, captive and defenseless, is slander, which is not justified by anything. Let those who did this and praised Allah at that time show where the Koran says that such an attitude towards the defenseless, Allah wants. This is the first. Secondly, it seems to me that the debate of such respected opponents as you and the Baltic is pointless. The point is not how many churches and mosques are in a particular city of Russia, but rather that the pastors carry out their healthy competition within their borders and do not go into the affairs of the state and society. A sermon will only reach the mind and heart when they will listen to her voluntarily, and not be forced to listen to her at school, college or the army. An example is the forced study of Marxism-Leninism. While people themselves sought to find out what the classics said, they believed them, when they began to learn this from the forcibly minded and illiterate loafers from the ideological department of the Central Committee, they stopped believing them.
            2. +5
              April 18 2013 12: 24
              Quote: Yeraz
              That's what Muslim they plant in Russia

              This should not be. In the mosque at home please. On the street a ban.
              The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.
              1. 0
                April 18 2013 12: 47
                Quote: baltika-18
                Quote: Yeraz
                That's what Muslim they plant in Russia

                This should not be. In the mosque at home please. On the street a ban.
                The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.

                So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet pavement, blocking the streets, seeing dissatisfied glances of a non-Muslim, what’s clear, praying, but they want to build a mosque, they don’t give it, they pray on the street, they annoy others.
                1. +2
                  April 18 2013 13: 17
                  Quote: Yeraz
                  So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet asphalt,

                  Pray at home, Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted out. There is nothing to gather for the shobla.
                  It’s their own fault that the attitude is negative when such crap on the streets, and even sheep in the middle of the city, are cut.
                  1. +1
                    April 18 2013 14: 13
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    Quote: Yeraz
                    So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet asphalt,

                    Pray at home, Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted out. There is nothing to gather for the shobla.
                    It’s their own fault that the attitude is negative when such crap on the streets, and even sheep in the middle of the city, are cut.

                    Well, some want to participate in joint prayers and celebrate together. He cannot be blamed for this.
                    The vast majority of our Azerbaijani community in St. Petersburg does not participate in these joint prayers, we celebrate at home, we cut a sheep either outside the city or in the yard, we are long-time residents of these places and it doesn’t seem wild to Russians, especially since we only distribute meat to our neighbors in order to they did not drink it with alcohol.
                  2. Yarbay
                    +1
                    April 18 2013 19: 44
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted

                    So this is one of the requirements of religion, on a holiday to be together, to help the poor!
                2. YuDDP
                  0
                  April 19 2013 00: 29
                  Pray at home. In your republic or in your apartment.
              2. +5
                April 18 2013 13: 10
                Quote: baltika-18
                The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.

                Well, the procession is equated with a crime.
                1. +2
                  April 18 2013 13: 45
                  Quote: Uncle
                  Well, the procession is equated with a crime.

                  I have a tough and unequivocal position for all faiths. A house, a temple, a mosque, pray.
                  And it’s not possible to atone for sins, this also applies to Muslims and Christians. Either if you haven’t sinned, or if you have sinned, try to throw so much on your scales that God would sin (Allah), for there is one essence, perceived as a mistake the unreasonable and accepted you the way you are. Faith without works is dead. For deeds are rewarded, not faith. Outside is not the essence, the essence internally, the essence of the thoughts and the works of yours. The point is not how many times you crossed yourself or performed the prayer, the essence of attitude to your neighbor, your deeds. In each there is a particle of God and the Spirit, for all are created by him. By killing and insulting your neighbor, you kill Him in yourself.
                  1. +2
                    April 18 2013 14: 49
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    I have a tough and unequivocal position for all faiths. A house, a temple, a mosque, pray.

                    Well then, and you hold the May Day demonstration at home! And about the day of the border guard and the paratrooper, generally forget!
              3. +1
                April 18 2013 18: 40
                For Nicholas, and this is precisely because there are no mosques, large and spacious.
              4. Yarbay
                0
                April 18 2013 19: 42
                Quote: baltika-18
                This should not be. In the mosque at home, please.

                So you say you don’t need to build mosques!
                And Muslims on a holiday should pray together if possible!
                Although I, too, am against having it done on the street !!
            3. 0
              April 18 2013 12: 59
              Quote: Yeraz
              secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and

              You are a Muslim, Ali. Answer 4 questions.
              Why did Mohamed consider a cat a sacred animal?
              Why can Muslims have 4 wives?
              And who are the "voluptuous houris"?
              And why does a woman in Islam take a low position?
              By the way, about the downgraded position of women, Islam is not alone, in other religions it is the same to one degree or another.
              If you can answer, then I will understand what 1 billion Muslims worship.
              1. Murat 09
                +3
                April 18 2013 13: 19
                Nikolay, I’ll answer instead of Ali,
                1-Muhammad (blessings and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it. That's all.
                2-Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed, on the contrary, it is considered optimal to have one wife. But this resolution has a very pragmatic meaning, for example, if a war has killed a lot of men, it helps to restore the demography of the people (an example of the USSR after the Second World War, if there was polygamy, the Russian people could now have no problems with demography.), Or say more women than men, and many men say drug addicts, drunkards, impotent, etc. that polygamy does not allow fornication to develop, how much now Russian women are in lovers, keepers, etc. huh, because they can’t find a normal husband.
                3- not "voluptuous" gurias, just gurias (khur kyz as we say), these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in PARADISE by the Almighty for their fear of God in this life, from 2 to 72 per person, if I am not mistaken, depending on their Faith.
                4- Women do not occupy a lowered state in Islam, they take their place, because men and women are different, each has his own responsibilities, men get food, women are the guardians of the hearth. And compare the lives of women in Saudi or Russia, I think not in Russia's favor will be, they plow with us, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc., and the husband does all the work for them, and the wife only watches the children and the household. And another piece of advice, ask about the rights of women in Islam at the nearest Imam in the mosque, he will tell, I would tell, but it’s necessary to write many pages
                1. 0
                  April 18 2013 14: 10
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  Nikolay, I’ll answer instead of Ali,

                  You answered beautifully, Murat.
                  But the answer is a standard, I have heard more than once.
                  The fact that Muhammad possessed abilities, was elected and gained access to knowledge about the structure of the world does not cause any doubts to me. But unfortunately he didn’t understand anything, because the information is in a metaphorical version, and a certain level of associative thinking is needed to understand about what is being said. And it is still necessary to overcome the fear of the unknown, for fear is a bad adviser. I approximately know what plan of visions and images, words and sounds he received, in what condition, and how this happened. Archangel Dzhabrail (Gabriel) appeared to him 24 times, he entered this state so many times, this can be done 000-1 times a day, not more.
                  We live in the 21st century and, in principle, a person on planet Earth is already worthy of learning, though to begin with, a small part of the truth about God (Allah) and about himself.
                  I believe that it was time for people to leave these religious disputes for a long time.
                  I do not want to agitate anyone, the time will come, soon already, you will understand and see everything yourself.
                  1. YuDDP
                    0
                    April 19 2013 00: 36
                    Yes, I got the information, obviously. This is not an isolated case.
                  2. Yarbay
                    0
                    April 19 2013 06: 55
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    I roughly know what kind of plan of vision and images, words and sounds he received, in what condition, and how this happened.

                    Were you near ??
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    .Archangel Jabrail (Gabriel) appeared to him 24 times,

                    Quote: baltika-18
                    .Archangel Dzhabrail (Gabriel) came to him 24 times, he went into this state so many times, this can be done 000-1 times a day, no more.

                    Where did you get this and how did you find it?
                    What can be done once twice a day?)))))
                2. +1
                  April 18 2013 14: 32
                  [quote = Murat 09] Nikolay, I will answer instead of Ali,
                  1-Muhammad (blessings and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it. That's all.
                  2-Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed, on the contrary, it is considered optimal to have one wife. But this resolution has a very pragmatic meaning, for example, if a war has killed a lot of men, it helps to restore the demography of the people (an example of the USSR after the Second World War, if there was polygamy, the Russian people could now have no problems with demography.), Or say more women than men, and many men say drug addicts, drunkards, impotent, etc. that polygamy does not allow fornication to develop, how much now Russian women are in lovers, keepers, etc. huh, because they can’t find a normal husband.
                  3- not "voluptuous" gurias, just gurias (khur kyz as we say), these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in PARADISE by the Almighty for their fear of God in this life, from 2 to 72 per person, if I am not mistaken, depending on their Faith.
                  4- Women do not occupy a lowered state in Islam, they take their place, because men and women are different, each has his own responsibilities, men get food, women are the guardians of the hearth. And compare the lives of women in Saudi or Russia, I think not in Russia's favor will be, they plow with us, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc., and the husband does all the work for them, and the wife only watches the children and the household. And another piece of advice, ask about the rights of women in Islam at the nearest Imam in the mosque, he will tell, I would tell, but it’s necessary to write many pages [/ quo
                  Thank you, gardash, otherwise it is so inconvenient to write on a tablet, graphic errors, erasing half a word, etc.
                  1. Murat 09
                    +2
                    April 18 2013 18: 45
                    No problem, bro smile
                3. +1
                  April 18 2013 14: 57
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  I didn’t consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it.

                  Christ rode on a donkey to Jerusalem, but we did not love the donkey more.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed

                  By our standards, this is legalized fornication. Even a printable letter was required from the Jews. But polygamy was never discussed. Adam had only one wife.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in Paradise

                  The same fornication.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  with us they plow, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc.

                  And this is an achievement of emancipation, all questions to Rosa Luxemburg and Klara Zetkin.
                4. Yarbay
                  0
                  April 18 2013 19: 49
                  I would add to what Murat said that a Muslim cannot have a second or third wife if the first wife is against!
                  Gurias are not obligatory in paradise and not the most important!
                  Just those who want it will be presented to them!
                  You many narrowly think that everyone is only dreaming of the guri, this is not so and this is because of ignorance !!
                  Thanks Murat for the answer! Everything is clear!
              2. +3
                April 18 2013 14: 26
                Quote: baltika-18
                Quote: Yeraz
                secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and

                You are a Muslim, Ali. Answer 4 questions.
                Why did Mohamed consider a cat a sacred animal?
                Why can Muslims have 4 wives?
                And who are the "voluptuous houris"?
                And why does a woman in Islam take a low position?
                By the way, about the downgraded position of women, Islam is not alone, in other religions it is the same to one degree or another.
                If you can answer, then I will understand what 1 billion Muslims worship.

                Murat answered for me for me, thanks to him, otherwise I would have written from a tablet for a very long time))
                What I worship, the essence of all religions is one, be a good person, do good stop evil, it’s just that it is accompanied by various rites in all. The father raised me as a person.
                As for women, believe me, they are many times better protected than women in Russia and Europe.
          2. +5
            April 18 2013 17: 15
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!

            So this is the problem!
            It is here that state and religious issues intersect - in those regions where one religion is considered ABOVE by default "more important" the rest should be very strictly asked from the leadership of these regions.
            And since a different religion "drags" a different culture and traditions with it, and the language of another language group, which is often not understood by local residents, then local "Chinatowns" are formed, literally closed to all gentiles, including the security forces.
            In the finale we have houses, quarters, cities and whole republics, living according to orders different from those prescribed in state laws, which are "modestly" called "local traditions".
            I think that the issue of "religious corruption" will still be discussed here.
            hi
      2. Murat 09
        +2
        April 18 2013 12: 59

        You said, “And you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either in their own way or a bullet.”

        I answer, Alexander, the majority of Muslims are the same, just the Western media show only extremists, whom they raised, trained and financed.
        You said, you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - for gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.
        I answer, They are not neighbors, but enemies who killed tens of millions (if not hundreds) of Russian people and Muslims. I don’t understand why the enemy is sorry, he won’t spare you !!!
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 13: 13
          Quote: Murat 09
          Muslims are no longer what they used to be

          I love a Muslim named Khoja Nasreddin. Now, apparently, there are none.
          Quote: Murat 09
          Faith turned into a weapon for killing
          Who is behind this?
        2. +1
          April 18 2013 13: 53
          Quote: Murat 09
          just Western media show only extremists

          I do not need to watch Western media, I live in my country and see with my own eyes.
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 14: 10
            Well, judging by your minus, I hit the mark! What is not like the truth, but do not get it from her, at least hesitates
    3. Heccrbq
      +7
      April 18 2013 09: 25
      It would be possible to treat your comment neutrally, but your name is Murad and you are most likely a Muslim, therefore, the conclusion is that it is not for you to talk about this (about supposedly "horror stories"), I respect Muslims if they are not adherents of Wahhabism.
    4. +2
      April 18 2013 12: 14
      Quote: Murat 09
      But Muslims did not attack Russia (the Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which seized the territory of the Turkish Empire.

      Russian-Turkish war 1568-1570. - the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552. And they sent their troops on a "victorious" campaign near Astrakhan.
      Russian-Turkish war of 1676-1681 - Hetman Petro Doroshenko after recognizing himself as a vassal of the Turkish Empire provokes conflicts with Russian citizens in Chigirin. After a successful operation carried out in Chigirin by Russian troops, the Turks send their army there.
      Murat 09You write nonsense!
      Quote: Murat 09
      it was the Muslims who contributed to the salvation of the Moscow Principality in 1399, when Vytautas gathered a 100 thousandth army and went to Russia

      Tokhtamysh (Toktamysh), having lost the khan’s throne, found an ally in the person of Vytautas. What he, too, was incredibly happy. Tokhtamysh for the support of Vytautas promised to give Moscow, Novgorod, Pskov under his arm ...
      Now you are speaking in plain sight about the great salvation of Moscow from the bad Vitovt (in the army of which there were also princes Smolensky and Kiev, by the way), completely forgetting who brewed the beech and who caused the creeps. The same Horde.
      1. Murat 09
        +1
        April 18 2013 13: 26
        Russian-Turkish war 1568-1570. - the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552. And they sent their troops on a "victorious" campaign near Astrakhan.
        Russian-Turkish war of 1676-1681 - Hetman Petro Doroshenko after recognizing himself as a vassal of the Turkish Empire provokes conflicts with Russian citizens in Chigirin. After a successful operation carried out in Chigirin by Russian troops, the Turks send their army there.
        That's right, the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552, and whoever asked Ivan the Terrible to conquer these khanates, the Turks only wanted to return
        yours, you yourself have confirmed my words. And the provocateur Doroshenko, is it that the Turks or something, or all the same a Slav.
        As for Vytautas, he was going to conquer Moscow, and on the way he wanted to solve the problems of his ally Tokhtamysh, but it didn’t work, the Muslims defeated him, learn the story, but he went, and the Shadibek troops that frightened him when he went back to Moscow through several years, but why keep quiet about that ??
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 15: 27
          Quote: Murat 09
          and who asked Ivan the Terrible to conquer these khanates, the Turks only wanted to get theirs back, you yourself confirmed my words. And the provocateur Doroshenko, is it that the Turks or something, or all the same a Slav.

          Murat, what do you write? To regain influence and to regain their lands are two different things. The mentioned khanates were not subordinate to the Ottoman Empire, nor were they its vassals or tributaries.
          Doroshenko surrendered to the Turks, got involved in a showdown with Moscow - did this give the Turks the right to go to war on the Russians? Sorry, but this is a miserable babble of a preschooler.
          It would be much more worthy to admit that you were wrong than to try to find confirmation for your tales about the Turks.
          1. Murat 09
            +1
            April 18 2013 19: 01
            Well, I admit that your innocence, these two wars began Turkey, and the remaining 12 or 15 wars, I do not know exactly who started ah?
            And yet I wanted to hear about the detachments of Shadibek, which he sent to help the Prince of Moscow, and this helped to save Russia from the second invasion of Vitovt, why is everyone silent about this?
        2. Max Russian
          +6
          April 18 2013 15: 34
          Good day to all! Murat, you are an educated and adequate person, but believe (or check) that the wars between Russia and Turkey were not just Russia's initiative. Russia conducted many wars with Turkey to liberate the Balkan (and not only) peoples from the Ottoman yoke. In general, the vast territory of the Ottoman Empire, like any other empire, was collected not by voluntary accession of countries and peoples. The huge Christian territories inhabited by small nations were conquered, and it was brutal. And thank God, for these peoples (Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, Wallachia, etc.), that was Russia, which helped them gain freedom from the Turks. So do not expose Turkey as a victim, but Russia as an aggressor. We teach history all together.
          PS But about the fact that Europe is an enemy of Russia, I unequivocally agree.
          1. Murat 09
            +1
            April 18 2013 18: 58
            I don’t expose Turkey as a victim, you say that Turkey conquered Christian peoples, and Russia freed them. But I can also say that Russia conquered Muslim lands (Astrakhan and Kazan khanates, the Caucasus, all of Siberia conquered by Ermak was Muslim, etc.) and Turkey liberated them. It’s just that they were two Empires that fought each other, and almost always Russia was an attacker (with rare exceptions, let Turkey start the rights and these two wars started), but there were many Russian-Turkish wars, two of them were caused by Turkey, and rest???.
            My goal in the previous post was not to whitewash Turkey, but to say that Islam was not a threat to Russia, its existence, as Europe was.
            1. 0
              April 18 2013 19: 42
              Quote: Murat 09
              It’s just that they were two Empires that fought each other, and almost always Russia was an attacker (with rare exceptions, let Turkey start the rights and these two wars started), but there were many Russian-Turkish wars, two of them were caused by Turkey, and rest???.

              I took at random the first two wars. Tomorrow we’ll go over the rest, if you don’t mind.
    5. Akatsubasa
      +1
      April 18 2013 12: 20
      The environment of the so far "secular" and historically Orthodox / monarchical state is at least fraught with the noose of the world caliphate)
    6. +2
      April 18 2013 13: 07
      Quote: Murat 09
      And Muslims did not attack Russia

      Murat, my friend, have you forgotten Turkey?
      1. Murat 09
        +1
        April 18 2013 13: 29
        Dmitry, I wrote above about the Turks.
  8. +8
    April 18 2013 08: 39
    Quote: domokl
    Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

    Everything is correct, the only thing is that in Islam, preachers of aggressive expansion are in the first roles. As soon as there will be more Muslims as voters than all others (and at the current birth rate this is a matter of the near future), options such as a European caliphate with reservations for Christians are not ruled out. The average age of Christians is growing, and a Muslim worker is not required to feed a kefir pensioner (infidel).
    1. Murat 09
      +4
      April 18 2013 08: 48
      Igor, you’re wrong, they are not in the first places, they are simply shown by the world (Zionist) media to discredit Islam. Similarly, in the west, the same media show Russians savages whipping vodka, bears with balalaikas allegedly roaming around in the streets, etc. Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference. Just don’t study Islam on the Internet, there are many extremists posing as righteous Muslims, there are also extremist sites controlled by intelligence agencies of the West.
      1. +11
        April 18 2013 09: 28
        Quote: Murat 09
        Therefore do not trust the media

        And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?
        1. +5
          April 18 2013 10: 47
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

          As soon as they came to power in Egypt Muslim brothers, immediately began the pogroms and atrocities against the Egyptian Coptic Christians!
          Quote: Yeraz
          In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims

          It will not happen, we will remain untrue for you. Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.
          So does world practice show?
          1. +3
            April 18 2013 11: 00
            Quote: Arberes
            As soon as Muslim brothers came to power in EGYPT, pogroms and atrocities against Egyptian Coptic Christians immediately began!

            To the very point +
            Quote: Arberes
            Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.

            So it will be, they are humble until there is sufficient strength and power, then, as in Egypt.
          2. +3
            April 18 2013 11: 39
            Quote: Arberes
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

            As soon as they came to power in Egypt Muslim brothers, immediately began the pogroms and atrocities against the Egyptian Coptic Christians!
            Quote: Yeraz
            In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims

            It will not happen, we will remain untrue for you. Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.
            So does world practice show?

            What kind of infidels? Are you Russian for us, what remained of religious in my generation of Russians to treat them as infidels? The older generation was generally from the atheistic USSR, therefore, adults didn’t bring us up either, look wrong))
            We have enough of our problems to think of what is wrong to cut for dinner.
            Your imitation of Europe and its mottos is your personality, the opinion of the elder is nothing, because you are a person and live for yourself and only for yourself, it will destroy you earlier than your opinion that Muslims who are very different think day and night to cut another wrong cut , make a video and send it to Romnava, who is watching them in huge quantities)))
            1. +4
              April 18 2013 13: 17
              Quote: Yeraz
              Your imitation of Europe and its mottos, you are a person, the opinion of an elder is nothing, because you are a person and live for yourself and only for yourself, it will ruin you before

              I agree, they left true Christian values, get Islam.
          3. djon3volta
            -5
            April 18 2013 13: 34
            Quote: Arberes
            As soon as Muslim brothers came to power in EGYPT

            Today after 19:00 on RUSSIA 24 they will show an interview with Egyptian President Mursi. An excerpt was shown, he says that the best tourists are Russians! Welcome to Egypt)))
        2. Murat 09
          0
          April 18 2013 13: 34
          Well, how many times can one repeat, in Syria, in Chechnya these are illiterate fanatics whom the West himself organized, financed, trained and directed to kill in order to solve his political problems and simultaneously discredit Islam. Let's assume that someone with the money collected Russian homeless people, drunkards, or the same illiterate skins, organized a gang from them, stuffed them with drugs and they cut the throat of people with Christian slogans on camera, and then say that all Russian terrorists are or whether the West simply does not do this because Christianity is no longer a rival to it, and Islam is the last obstacle to the Zionist fascist dictatorship on Earth.
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 15: 10
            Quote: Murat 09
            and Islam is the last obstacle to the Zionist fascist dictatorship on Earth.

            I do not agree that Islam has a mission to counter Zionism. Islam has never been persecuted, unlike Christianity. Christians destroyed millions! And also? Christianity only began to spread more strongly in the world. Rather, the aim is to push Muslims with Christians, with the goal of destroying Christianity and great blood.
            1. Murat 09
              0
              April 18 2013 18: 37
              Aha, you tell the Moors in Spain, the Muslims in China, India, etc., who were killed by millions, you tell the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, etc. And what, Christians were killed by millions of Muslims or something, read history, the most tolerant countries were Islamic countries. In Islam we have a respectful attitude towards Nasar (Christians) and Yahudi (Jews), there have never been pogroms on religious grounds, I will give you an example quote from a radical preacher among Muslims "according to Islam, if even in all non-Muslim countries all Muslims are killed, Muslims do not have the right to touch Christians and Jews living in their countries, with whom an agreement has been concluded (that is, they recognize themselves as citizens of these countries and pay a special tax, jizya (Muslims pay zakat)) "And if a radical says this, then how do moderate Imams say ah? And what about liberalism (Zionism), show me at least one example of Christian resistance to this evil?
              1. Yarbay
                +1
                April 19 2013 07: 05
                Quote: Murat 09
                Yeah, you say this to the Moors in Spain, Muslims in China, India, etc., who were killed by millions, you say this to the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, etc.

                Most importantly, for almost a year now, mass Muslim murderers of Muslims and pogroms have been going on in Thailand, but the Western and Russian media are silent!
                Don't fit in the script!
                Buddhists are killing!
                1. Murat 09
                  +1
                  April 19 2013 07: 20
                  To the point, Alibek !!!!
          2. 0
            April 18 2013 20: 54
            Exclusively West? And Qatar with the Saudis?
        3. Yarbay
          +2
          April 19 2013 07: 02
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

          Sanya, the thing is that not every shouting Allahu Akbar understands what he is doing!
          Many are now studying Islam from the discs of extremists and ignoramuses!
          The problem is the lack of education and certainly the special services of the West and many countries create the image of a * Muslim * beast, directly creating and training extremists!
      2. +4
        April 18 2013 12: 34
        Quote: Murat 09
        Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference.

        In order for a Russian person to sit down to study Islam, for a start it would be nice for him to get to know his native Orthodoxy better.
    2. 0
      April 18 2013 10: 38
      Quote: igor36
      Quote: domokl
      Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

      Everything is correct, the only thing is that in Islam, preachers of aggressive expansion are in the first roles. As soon as there will be more Muslims as voters than all others (and at the current birth rate this is a matter of the near future), options such as a European caliphate with reservations for Christians are not ruled out. The average age of Christians is growing, and a Muslim worker is not required to feed a kefir pensioner (infidel).

      In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims
  9. gorkoxnumx
    +10
    April 18 2013 08: 39

    Every citizen of Russia must fight tolerance in everyday life.
    1. Murat 09
      +2
      April 18 2013 08: 51
      Danil, you’re right, there is ethnic crime, but what does the Muslims have to do with it, for example, drug trafficking, rape, etc., is a big sin, and the real Muslim cannot commit this, and those who commit such crimes must be imprisoned.
      1. +5
        April 18 2013 09: 30
        Quote: Murat 09
        D., it is a great sin, and the real Muslim cannot do this.

        Where they are real Muslims, their time has passed. Now the fanatics are at the helm, therefore they will have to be planted by millions if they do not interrupt you before.
        1. Murat 09
          +1
          April 18 2013 13: 39
          well, everything is clear with you, zombie drives, I won’t communicate anymore, I see it is useless sad
  10. zambo
    +11
    April 18 2013 08: 51
    There is some truth in Murat’s words.

    It should only be added that Vitovt then conspired with the Horde prince Tokhtamysh: “It was assumed that Tokhtamysh would become king“ in the Cafe, and on Ozov, and on the Crimea, and on Aztarkani, and on Zayitskaya (ie, behind Yaik.), And all over Primoria (meaning the Black Sea coast.), and Kazan. ”Vitovt in this case was supposed to own“ Severshchina, the Great New City and Pskov and the Germans, all the great Russian princes. ”But the plans of Tokhtamysh and Vitovt put an end to the defeat of their combined troops from the regiments of Khan Timur-Kutlug in the battle on Vorskla in 1399, which by no means acted not only in defense of the Moscow prince, but to a greater extent fought with Tokhtamysh for power in the Horde.

    And Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.
    1. Murat 09
      +2
      April 18 2013 08: 54
      Yes, they fought to a greater extent against Tokhtamysh, but does that detract from their contribution to the salvation of Russia, and the army of Shidibek, sent to help Russia, and who was frightened by Vitovt, does not count.
      zamboy- And Russia is in fact the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia .-
      and I’m talking about this, we need an alliance between Islam and Russia, and together we are strong, and our enemies are afraid of this, pushing us with their foreheads, such as this article.
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 10: 09
        Quote: Murat 09
        we need an alliance of Islam and Russia,

        An interesting statement.
        And how do you imagine this? Russia is a country, Islam is a religion. Is it all to accept Islam or what? Explain if it's not difficult.
        1. 120352
          -3
          April 18 2013 11: 08
          I agree to such an alliance. But on condition: a) all Muslims accept Christianity, c) in order to avoid "misunderstandings", the first five generations live in isolation, somewhere in the BAM region under the control of the Cossacks and finish building what they started in the seventies of the last century. c) It is possible to release from there in portions, only those who have shown themselves in the struggle against the world reptile-Islam. d) After the elimination of reservations, compact settlement should not be allowed. f) For three more generations, encourage the mixing of Muslims with the Chukchi, Yakuts, Evens, Yukaghirs, Dolgans, Khanty, Mansi, etc.
          1. 0
            April 18 2013 11: 54
            Quote: 120352
            I agree to such an alliance. But on condition: a) all Muslims accept Christianity, c) in order to avoid "misunderstandings", the first five generations live in isolation, somewhere in the BAM region under the control of the Cossacks and finish building what they started in the seventies of the last century. c) It is possible to release from there in portions, only those who have shown themselves in the struggle against the world reptile-Islam. d) After the elimination of reservations, compact settlement should not be allowed. f) For three more generations, encourage the mixing of Muslims with the Chukchi, Yakuts, Evens, Yukaghirs, Dolgans, Khanty, Mansi, etc.

            Yeah, and where are these Christians? Wearing a cross around his neck is not considered to be a Christian. If there were real Christians, then these people would perfectly understand Islam and its dogmas and behave like real Christians, would go to church, would dress like Christians, and then the difference would be minimal between Islam and Christianity.
            The conflict is that atheists and people who call themselves Christian because of the cross around the neck infuriate that Muslims erect mosques, are many children and go to their temples in thousands.
            So do not mix Christianity here.
            And about the rest of the nonsense that you wrote, I advised you to go to the doctor many times, you can just stumble upon a Muslim who will take your words seriously and then a new video into Romanov’s piggy bank, although I doubt that you can say that to a Muslim in person laughing
            1. +1
              April 18 2013 12: 36
              Quote: Yeraz
              The conflict is that atheists and people who call themselves Christian because of the cross around the neck infuriate that Muslims erect mosques, are many children and go to their temples in thousands.

              But true Christians are not outraged by the trend? Should a true Christian think only of his soul, and not of the vanity of the world? Someone probably would have liked this position. But I am sincerely sure that this is not so.
            2. 0
              April 18 2013 15: 18
              Quote: Yeraz
              Yeah, and where are these Christians?

              Here I am.
              Quote: Yeraz
              and then the difference would be minimal between Islam and Christianity.

              Do not be offended, but you should learn by yourself. Or do you think that Hosts and Allah are one and the same? And we go to the same Father, only in different ways? Christ clearly told us: "I am the door of the sheep", without Christ there is no entrance to the Father, there is no salvation, and you only regard him as a Prophet. Although the fact that God was crucified was already clear to the crucifiers! The Jews understood this! (only not recognized)
              However, I will say that I can’t say that a true Muslim will not be saved. God has a lot of space in heaven, everyone will have enough.
              1. Yarbay
                0
                April 19 2013 07: 11
                Quote: Uncle
                Although the fact that God was crucified was clear to the crucifixes!

                Do not blaspheme!
                God cannot be crucified!
                And I wrote to you on Islam the prophet Isa was not crucified !!
        2. Murat 09
          0
          April 18 2013 13: 40
          The Union of Islam and Russia - the union of Islamic countries and Russia, if you like
          1. -1
            April 18 2013 15: 59
            Quote: Murat 09
            The Union of Islam and Russia - the union of Islamic countries and Russia, if you like

            This will never happen.
            Russia will be the first country in the world where all religions are transformed into one doctrine based on a scientific worldview.
            The rest of the world will slide into the abyss of chaos, but the doors will be open.
            Will people want to change?
            Will they want to reject everything old?
            Do they want to start a new life or prefer to die for myths?
            What do you decide for yourself?
            You don’t know it now. But I think you will make the right decision.
            1. Murat 09
              +2
              April 18 2013 19: 09
              Nikolay, as I understand it, your faith is science and scientists, I am very sorry for you, please read to Yu.I. Mukhin about these very scientists, about their moral qualities, etc. If I find a link to throw.
              here is one of the links of their many articles,
              http://www.ymuhin.ru/node/788/nezamenimye-spetsialisty
    2. zambo
      +4
      April 18 2013 09: 45
      "Minus", with which part of my comment do you disagree?
      About the battle in Vorskla in 1399 or that Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

      Justify the "cons".
      1. +4
        April 18 2013 10: 04
        Quote: zamboy
        Minushers "which part of my comment do you disagree with?

        Quote: zamboy
        About the Battle of Vorskla in 1399

        History isn’t worth it, in this case it has nothing to do with it. We are not in the 14-15th century, we are in the 21st. And .....
        I really love women, but I hate women in hijab and the cry of the muezzin at dawn.
        Any religion and Islam, in particular, should not be dogma frozen in centuries, but develop.
        1. zambo
          +1
          April 18 2013 11: 16
          Quote "baltika-18":
          History isn’t worth it, in this case it has nothing to do with it. We are not in the 14-15th century, we are in the 21st. And .....

          My comment was a response to the "weaving" (as you put it) of an example from the story from "MURAT 09", but about muezzins and hijabs I agree, I live in the Stavropol Territory and it's not for me to explain it ...
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 12: 08
            Quote: zamboy
            My comment was a response to the "weaving" (as you put it) example from the story from "MURAT 09

            Then I did not understand you. But this is because of my slightly different view of history.
            Quote: zamboy
            I agree about muezzins and hijabs, I live in the Stavropol Territory and I don’t have to explain it ...

            I am glad that we agree on this issue.
        2. 0
          April 18 2013 16: 50
          Quote: baltika-18
          Any religion and Islam, in particular, should not be dogma frozen in centuries, but develop.

          Today’s Islam is Christianity 600 years ago, the same fanaticism, bonfires of the Inquisition, etc. One must understand that religion is relatively young with all the consequences! hi
      2. PrikVO 84-86
        +10
        April 18 2013 10: 15
        Muslims are different. Russians peacefully coexisted (last 500 years) only with Volga Muslims. Tatars and Bashkirs. These peoples, despite another religion, are mentally very close to the Slavs. And with all the other muses, the Russians fought. The most obvious example is the North Caucasian peoples. The whole story we fought with them. Except for those periods when our dominance was overwhelming. But, as soon as Russian power was weakened, we immediately received a knife in the back from the Caucasians. So it was during the Civil War, and during the Second World War and in the 90s.
        1. 0
          April 18 2013 10: 20
          Quote: PrikVO 84-86
          Russians peacefully coexisted (last 500 years) only with Volga Muslims. Tatars and Bashkirs.

          You are VERY and VERY optimistic in determining the time frame for "peaceful living". Well, there is a slightly different story, different from the one that is now developing in the world ...
          1. PrikVO 84-86
            0
            April 18 2013 10: 26
            After the conquest of Kazan by Ivan the Terrible, there were no big excesses. Between Russians and Tatars. Is not it so?
            1. +2
              April 18 2013 10: 32
              Go live in Kazan and check ON YOURSELF!
      3. +2
        April 18 2013 10: 41
        Quote: zamboy
        "Minus", with which part of my comment do you disagree?
        About the battle in Vorskla in 1399 or that Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

        Justify the "cons".

        Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.
        1. 0
          April 18 2013 11: 02
          Quote: Yeraz
          Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.

          Well, where are we to you
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 12: 57
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.

            Well, where are we to you

            Hah, that’s the minuser)))
            1. +1
              April 18 2013 13: 58
              Quote: Yeraz
              Hah, that’s the minuser)))

              Ha, there is no my minus tongue
    3. +1
      April 18 2013 13: 20
      Quote: zamboy
      in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

      Indigenous peoples got along! And now in Moscow there are more Uzbeks than Russians.
  11. pinecone
    +2
    April 18 2013 08: 57
    In the Ottoman Empire, a Christian’s testimony in court was not considered legal if it wasn’t supported by a Muslim testimony, and Christians paid double tax.

    To the author. Comrade Chuvakin, please, don't need these "Molotov cocktails" invented by American journalists.
  12. Vrungel78
    +4
    April 18 2013 08: 59
    A few points.
    Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe.
    For what they fought, they ran into something.
    And in tolerant France, in November last year, a mosque was opened for sexual minorities.
    And this is generally upside down. Allah must immediately punish the LGBT-tion with a sandstorm.
    It is precisely on this European experience that the “dear Russians,” who are also offered in a massive manner to start building huge mosques and bring in migrants, should think about.
    Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that
    And further. Muslim comrades, I appeal to those who want to organize the likeness of your countries on my territory. To put it mildly, with their charter, they don’t climb into someone else’s monastery. For those who are in the tank: Fuck you in your black-posters and do whatever you want there.
    1. PrikVO 84-86
      0
      April 18 2013 10: 17
      === Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that ===
      "Patriot" Putin also thinks so. Unfortunately...
    2. 0
      April 18 2013 10: 46
      Quote: Vrungel78
      A few points.
      Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe.
      For what they fought, they ran into something.
      And in tolerant France, in November last year, a mosque was opened for sexual minorities.
      And this is generally upside down. Allah must immediately punish the LGBT-tion with a sandstorm.
      It is precisely on this European experience that the “dear Russians,” who are also offered in a massive manner to start building huge mosques and bring in migrants, should think about.
      Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that
      And further. Muslim comrades, I appeal to those who want to organize the likeness of your countries on my territory. To put it mildly, with their charter, they don’t climb into someone else’s monastery. For those who are in the tank: Fuck you in your black-posters and do whatever you want there.

      Considering that you turned to all Muslims, I’ll ask you a wise guy, well, Muslims of the CIS, and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too.
      1. 0
        April 18 2013 11: 04
        Quote: Yeraz
        , and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too

        We will figure it out in our own country, without the intervention of the citizens of Azerbaijan!
        1. +3
          April 18 2013 12: 09
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Yeraz
          , and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too

          We will figure it out in our own country, without the intervention of the citizens of Azerbaijan!

          Given that here all Muslims are generalized, this applies to everyone, by the way I’m a citizen of Russia already. Therefore, when they tell me a Muslim citizen of the Russian Federation that it turns out we are sleeping here and see in a dream how to replenish your collection of videos with the severed heads of infidels)))
          And once again it’s enough to constantly write this or that, this is a public site where citizens of all countries of the world and religions can leave their comments, if you do not like it you have 2 ways not to go to this site or to achieve restrictions so that we can write here people of a certain category who are lying personally to you.
          1. PrikVO 84-86
            0
            April 18 2013 13: 47
            As you become a citizen of the Russian Federation, you will cease to be one. For you migrants - change your passport - how to sell a kilogram of tomato in the market.
            1. +3
              April 18 2013 14: 48
              [quote = PrikVO 84-86] As you become a citizen of the Russian Federation, you will cease to be one. For you migrants - change your passport - how to sell a kilogram of tomato on the market. [/ Quit)))
              What are you depriving)) My ancestors fought for Leningrad, and since then my relatives have been here, I didn’t want to get a passport for my historic homeland, but alas, seeing that with my values, what the authorities do with the people does not fit into my understanding of Islam and the Caucasus, and therefore my parents realized that either I would shoot someone and go to jail or they would shame me for my statements, they would return me back quickly. So you can have no doubt about the truth of my citizenship, we are not market brothers, but Uchian, military, doctors and other specialties and respected family in this city
              Rather, we are able to deprive someone of something than us))
              1. -1
                April 18 2013 15: 21
                If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian
                1. +2
                  April 18 2013 17: 32
                  Quote: mhpv
                  If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian


                  Dear why you are rushing from one extreme to the other, and where does nationality come from ?! If a Russian citizen (it is still unknown who will run and who will be surely dead and not flinch), all Russian citizens are sure, regardless of nationality, will stand upright to defend the Fatherland. Remember history of the Great Patriotic War. Hitler believed that the peoples of the USSR would not be together and would scatter into national apartments. The main miscalculation was this. Remember the Anthem. The Union of the Indestructible ....... !!!
                  1. +1
                    April 19 2013 09: 24
                    Then why did the Russians living in the Asian republics be expelled without saying that they were cut only because they were Russians, although many were born there.
                    I even know examples when children from the same republics in our time studied in Russia only in the elementary grades as soon as the study of history began so immediately home.
                    So I meant that most aspire to obtain citizenship as a marriage of convenience. Well, there’s nowhere to run Russians just beyond Russia, and I don’t argue about the rest, it’s not a nation that paints a person, but vice versa.
                    ".... free republics, Great Russia united forever" I think it's not worth it further hi
                2. +2
                  April 18 2013 18: 25
                  Quote: mhpv
                  If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian

                  C'mon ?????? So you enlightened me, otherwise I thought the Chechens, the Tatars are Russian and I will also become Russian after receiving citizenship))
                  I am Azeri-Turk Russian)) In what happens)))
                  1. 0
                    April 19 2013 09: 33
                    Yeraz, you yourself have clearly defined yourself as a Russian, but you live in Russia probably according to your traditions and these traditions are already beginning to be imposed by Russians starting from oriental music and so on, this is what starts to annoy, and so who lives against, just respect the nation where you live (not only Russian at least Germans, at least someone else)
              2. +1
                April 18 2013 15: 21
                Quote: Yeraz
                we are not market frauds here, but Uchisian, military, doctors and other specialties and a respected family in this city

                And this, by the way, is good. We need these.
              3. PrikVO 84-86
                0
                April 18 2013 16: 51
                Take your "valuables" to Turkey, Iran, etc.
                Rather, we are able to deprive someone of something than us
                "Who are "we? Migrants? So we - not migrants - and so we know that as soon as there are enough of you here, you will arrange the same mess in Russia as in your camps. Live at home, put things in order there, build roads, schools, enterprises, etc. there. You are not needed here.
              4. 0
                April 18 2013 18: 26
                Quote: Yeraz
                Alas, I saw that with my values, what the authorities do with the people does not fit into my understanding of Islam and the Caucasus

                Ali, then it’s not all lost, since there are people like you.
                At the very least, it is worth thinking about the problem of diasporas and not making hasty decisions.
          2. 0
            April 18 2013 14: 01
            Quote: Yeraz
            is a public site, g

            This is Russian sayit !!!
            1. +5
              April 18 2013 17: 25
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              This is Russian sayit !!!


              Alexander buddy hi drinks used to be a Russian site, now the CIS site, God forbid in the future will be the site of the updated Union fellow
            2. +3
              April 18 2013 18: 28
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Yeraz
              is a public site, g

              This is Russian sayit !!!

              Yes this is a Russian PUBLIC website fellow
            3. +1
              April 18 2013 18: 28
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Yeraz
              is a public site, g

              This is Russian sayit !!!

              Yes this is a Russian PUBLIC website fellow
          3. Vrungel78
            +1
            April 18 2013 14: 43
            I respect your opinion and upholding justice. But we live in a Christian country so that the Tolerasts do not speak in the Kremlin. I am an unbeliever, but I adhere to the principles set forth in the Bible. 7 covenants: do not kill, do not create an idol for yourself, do not steal, etc.- this is generally spelled out in other words in the Constitutions and Criminal Code of many countries, i.e. lifestyle. And the Quran permits both to kill (infidels), and to rob (infidels) and much more, which contradicts the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Therefore, I repeat, whoever doesn’t like to march to their countries, and who has their homeland-Russia, live peacefully, do not unleash conflicts, wars, and do not dance Lezghin in the streets. And then you will not be criticized, and you will not be offended. The initiators of this conflict of religions are Muslims.
      2. Vrungel78
        +2
        April 18 2013 11: 38
        local Muslims, respect and honor, do not fall to their knees in the city center and do not impose their faith and traditions on me.
        1. +1
          April 18 2013 12: 27
          Quote: Vrungel78
          local Muslims, respect and honor, do not fall to their knees in the city center and do not impose their faith and traditions on me.

          Are you sure that local Muslims do not pray on their knees in the center?
          And the question is for you, but that they would normally and clearly answer exactly how Muslims impose their religion on you.
          1. Vrungel78
            0
            April 18 2013 14: 30
            There is some percentage now, but this "tradition" was brought in by Gaster. And religion is imposed as follows: the requirement to build mosques. And this argument is enough.
            1. Murat 09
              0
              April 18 2013 14: 45
              Vladimir, why do Muslims, citizens of Russia, have no right to build a mosque in Moscow, and, after all, there are Christian churches in Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, the KBR or the KCR, and they are still being built, can it also be forbidden, based on your logic ?? ?
              1. PrikVO 84-86
                0
                April 18 2013 16: 44
                What did you do with the Russians who lived in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan? Now come to us and demand something there. Do not go to another monastery with your charter.
                1. Murat 09
                  0
                  April 18 2013 18: 24
                  I did nothing, I have a lot of good Russian acquaintances, we have 35% of the population in the KCR and live and have no problems, but in Chechnya, if you didn’t forget, there was a war, and 300 Russians fled and Chechens killed 000 people. I don’t argue, during Dudaev in 250-000 there were killings on ethnic grounds, about 1992 (two thousand) Russians were killed in two years, this is bad, but note that in Grozny, on the orders of Yeltsin, Russian air force killed 1994 months in a artillery is ten times more than Russians, 2000 people. Why don’t you curse Yeltsin, although in 2 months he killed ten times more Russians than Chechens in 20 years?
                2. +2
                  April 18 2013 18: 31
                  Quote: Prikvo 84-86
                  What did you do with the Russians who lived in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan? Now come to us and demand something there. Do not go to another monastery with your charter.

                  yeah, we are sitting here discussing potential opponents of their army, etc. Yes, in order to arrange Syria, you just need to bring fire to the barrel such a love of the inhabitants of Russia for each other))
                  1. Murat 09
                    +1
                    April 18 2013 20: 16
                    Yes, Ali, you’re right, this is sad, zombie in the media does not pass without a trace.
    3. 120352
      +1
      April 18 2013 10: 58
      By the way, there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia! They are all demolished. Christianity is an independent reason for the death penalty.
      Or can we introduce symmetrical measures, only in relation to Islam?
      1. Murat 09
        +2
        April 18 2013 14: 48
        Quote: 120352
        By the way, there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia! They are all demolished. Christianity is an independent reason for the death penalty.


        Yeah, you tell me about the death penalty to hundreds of thousands of Europeans, Amers, or Russians who work in Saudi Arabia, now they laugh. As for Christian churches, they are banned on the territory of Mecca and Medina, as is the entrance to non-Muslims, and not throughout Saudi Arabia.
    4. 0
      April 18 2013 19: 08
      For Vrungel, I would advise you to hold a little tongue. People like you bring contention and quarrels, both interethnic and interreligious. - to you.
  13. fenix57
    +8
    April 18 2013 09: 13
    Well, that geyropa waited for what her enlightenment so desired and ...- "... in tolerant France, a mosque for sexual minorities was opened in November last year ..." - it's hard to imagine more absurdity ... Oh, close the state borders it's time both from the South and from the West ...
    1. 120352
      0
      April 18 2013 10: 56
      Phoenix, dear! Yes, we only have borders from the North and are covered. And that is not with waxes and border guards, but with ice, and they, they say, are melting ...
  14. +4
    April 18 2013 09: 22
    It is easy to imagine what will happen to Europe ..... all these pi.ko blue movements ... a family with one two children ... Muslims have very large families ... maybe the story from Kosovo will repeat ... only in the role of Yugoslavia Europeans themselves will be
  15. +9
    April 18 2013 09: 39
    So a direct relationship has emerged ... the more mosques ... the smaller the economy. It is necessary to strengthen the borders ... not to put an iron curtain, but a steel curtain.
    1. +3
      April 18 2013 10: 35
      Quote: Strashila
      It is necessary to strengthen the borders ... to place not an iron, but a steel curtain.

      You know, the same thought visits me more and more often. In order to put things in order it is necessary to close for a while, leaving small gaps controlled by the state.
  16. +8
    April 18 2013 09: 43
    If you do not besiege these "migrants" (then, as I call them in fact, you cannot write), if you do not urgently adopt tough laws, then this bearded scum give us hell worse than in Europe.
    To prevent the Islamization of Russia, is still in our power.
  17. +4
    April 18 2013 09: 51
    Greece is the stronghold of Orthodoxy. I really appreciate and value this.
    I say this not for the sake of a red word, but as a true admirer of St. Athos. If you are Orthodox, then go there and see for yourself. There you start to think differently.
    At the same time, I have a very multinational family. We live all together, grow children together and celebrate all the holidays. This is the Urals, no one here bothers anyone.

    But the mass construction of mosques in Athens - ... it’s somehow in the soul to become bad.
    Everything has its reasonable limits. Something is Holy.
    In Serbia, for example, even in the most difficult times, this was not ...

    This is not right.
    I hope the Greek government will understand that money is not a solution in this case and will not go along the path of a massively Islamizing Europe. In Germany, there is already an almost Arab caliphate, talk to the Germans in hashtats, see how evil they are. In France, full maghrib has long been. They themselves chop the branch on which they sit.
    For some reason, they don’t put churches in Muslim centers, the howl would rise. Everything should be the norm, not the destruction of national traditions.
  18. abdul0686
    -8
    April 18 2013 09: 59
    Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 13: 08
      Quote: abdul0686
      Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...

      In fact, you wrote that Islam can offer something more than Christianity.
      Think first about this question yourself. How close are you to the Christian religion?
    2. 0
      April 18 2013 20: 04
      1gorab: Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...
      Catholicism and Lutheranism have finally discredited themselves in gay Europe.
      And people who endlessly change faith do not have it.
  19. +1
    April 18 2013 10: 13
    Quote: Murat 09
    Igor, you’re wrong, they are not in the first places, they are simply shown by the world (Zionist) media to discredit Islam. Similarly, in the west, the same media show Russians savages whipping vodka, bears with balalaikas allegedly roaming around in the streets, etc. Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference. Just don’t study Islam on the Internet, there are many extremists posing as righteous Muslims, there are also extremist sites controlled by intelligence agencies of the West.

    Dear Murat! The significance of a preacher is determined by his popularity.
    sermons and the number of people listening to these sermons. So whether you want to admit it or not, the new trends in Islam are more active and popular. I have lived in Central Asia for more than 20 years, read the Qur'an (in translation of course), so I know Islam firsthand
    1. Murat 09
      +3
      April 18 2013 13: 52
      That's right, because they are funded and directed by the West, so I have already said 100 times that in order to fight extremism, Muslim youth must be taught true Sunni Islam.
      1. +2
        April 19 2013 00: 05
        So educate your youth in true Islam, why are you giving your future generation into the hands of extremists? And they are financed by Saudi Arabia (in which, by the way, the center of traditional Islam Mecca and Medina are located) and Qatar. And most of the leaders of the extremist movements of Islam are from Saudi Arabia. And for the West, all these "Muslim brothers", "Hezbollah", "Wahhabis", etc., are a way to redistribute the world and make money, but only for the duped Muslim youth this is a struggle for faith.
      2. 0
        April 19 2013 08: 32
        And more: Wahhabism is the direction of Islamic fundamentalism, i.e. the return of Sharia courts, hijab, polygamy, the recognition in the state of the supreme authority of Allah, the subordination of the spheres of life of society and the state under the laws of Sharia. Wahhabism is the official ideology of Saudi Arabia, formed in the XVIII century. Then the West did not even think about financing these religious movements. Now the question is, who wants the introduction of Sharia law in Russia? Personally, I am comfortable with a secular state, and if one of the religions tries to impose its teaching, as the preachers of Islam do this, neither I nor my children need this at all.
  20. +1
    April 18 2013 10: 14
    "Democracy is the power of money, chosen for money, for the sake of money" All the governments of the so-called "developed democratic" countries are outraged by the influx of emigrants, while they do not take real measures to limit this influx. Why? The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, has no rights, does not require social security, etc., etc. Therefore, in Russia the topic of "free toilers from fraternal republics" will only be discussed and no real prohibitions will follow. The Russian government does not give a damn about its unemployed!
    1. djon3volta
      -3
      April 18 2013 13: 41
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, does not have rights, does not require social security, etc., etc.

      and not a migrant on what shisha then lives?
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 18: 33
        Quote: djon3volta
        Quote: d.gksueyjd
        The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, does not have rights, does not require social security, etc., etc.

        and not a migrant on what shisha then lives?

        Yes, it’s direct in Russia such a social security system that finally. Less need to walk, drink and smoke, then there may be enough money.
  21. +1
    April 18 2013 10: 18
    Islam religion is initially aggressive, I remain of my opinion. I saw everyone from the Urals to Baku. My opinion is to eradicate unambiguously. The East respects only power.
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 11: 07
      Islam religion is initially aggressive, I remain of my opinion. - Regarding the first part of the phrase - nothing like that, regarding the second - this is your right.
  22. +4
    April 18 2013 10: 19
    Quote: Murat 09
    But Muslims did not attack Russia (Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which captured the territory of the Turkish Empire

    And the Turks that lived on their land? Or did they first slaughter the Greeks in Byzantium, then the Europeans (Serbs, Bulgarians, etc.) then the Caucasus, is that normal?
  23. +6
    April 18 2013 10: 41
    No need to pretend that one black sheep is supposedly ... Migrant Muslims, for the most part, hate Europeans, including Russians. The reason is simple; it is not in religion. Just born and raised in complete savagery. They cannot imagine life without their wolf show-offs. No need to tell stories about the difference of cultures. The culture either exists or does not exist regardless of religion. The migrants are eating a wild, uncontrolled inferiority complex, and they are trying to arrange little worlds, ghettos and orders in which the savage feels quite comfortable.
    Adequate Asian migrants in their behavior are a rarity that does not affect the mass of the rest.
  24. Akatsubasa
    0
    April 18 2013 10: 42
    We decided to play democracy and tolerance ... played out)
  25. Akatsubasa
    +1
    April 18 2013 10: 42
    We decided to play democracy and tolerance ... played out)
  26. +4
    April 18 2013 10: 43
    Quote: Murat 09
    . Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians

    Murat, I completely agree with this and your other posts. Including about extremist "Muslim sites" controlled by Western special services. Traditional Islam has nothing in common with Wahhabism and misanthropy!
    Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world. But from the side of the former Christian, and now essentially godless west, this threat has been and remains constant, in all manifestations! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.
    Russia is truly unique and, most importantly, a self-sufficient power, with which our sworn friends and partners cannot historically come to terms!
    It is also not worthwhile in this context to give examples of all kinds of geeks calling themselves Muslims, in fact for the most part not knowing more than one sura from the Koran! Their money is God - a bullet will calm them!
    Look who more and more often become victims of militants in the North Caucasus region - Muslim religious leaders who primarily carry the truths of traditional Islam to young people!
    Therefore, the path of Russia is strengthening the Orthodox Church, comprehensive support of traditional Islam, educational work in this direction, the construction of cathedrals and mosques in the places of traditional residence of Orthodox and Muslims!
    As for the Islamization of Europe, let them build what they want!
    Our business is to strengthen the economic power and defense capability of the country, with the rigorous rule of law within the country. Our state is secular, do not forget about it! It is important!
    1. +6
      April 18 2013 11: 13
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?
      Quote: Oper
      ! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.

      Are you talking about such examples as in this photo? I don’t want anything like that in my country!
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 11: 47
        I don’t want anything like that in my country! - This will not happen if the government of the Russian Federation adopts an adequate migration policy (for the most part, most likely migrant workers in the photo). Alexander, how much has been said and discussed on this site already! ... NORMAL migration policy is needed! Do you agree?
      2. 0
        April 18 2013 12: 14
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Oper
        Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

        Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?
        Quote: Oper
        ! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.

        Are you talking about such examples as in this photo? I don’t want anything like that in my country!

        Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.
        1. +2
          April 18 2013 13: 14
          Quote: Yeraz
          Hmm, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put cardons on the border

          No need to turn upside down. The people are against what is happening in their hometowns, towns, villages, standing on the original Russian land.
        2. +2
          April 18 2013 14: 04
          Quote: Yeraz
          Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.

          You need to respect the faith of others, the traditions of others. And your Muslims who fill the streets of the cities do not have this respect, so that's enough to ride on the ears.
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 18: 35
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.

            You need to respect the faith of others, the traditions of others. And your Muslims who fill the streets of the cities do not have this respect, so that's enough to ride on the ears.

            haha well, you give it to Muslims to go to church and dance)) And about the traditions, I'm sorry, of course, maybe this is an ancient Russian tradition somewhere, but apart from the zombie European youth, I don’t see anything))
            Maybe you’ll give your glasses to your Romanovs)) And then you see so many things unknown to us wink
      3. Vrungel78
        0
        April 18 2013 14: 50
        Imagine what the policeman is thinking right now laughing
    2. +2
      April 18 2013 13: 10
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Read above about the friendly Turks attacked by Russian aggressors.
      Murat gives wishful thinking.
      Quote: Oper
      construction of cathedrals and mosques in places of traditional residence of Orthodox and Muslims

      that is, you are against the construction of mosques, say, in Moscow or St. Petersburg?
    3. Murat 09
      +1
      April 18 2013 13: 55
      Igor is a thousand pluses, it’s nice to see a competent, not zombied person’s media))) !!!.
    4. +1
      April 18 2013 19: 18
      For Opera, the right words expressed everything that I wanted to say. + Dear you !!!
  27. +3
    April 18 2013 10: 50
    The USA is building a strip of Islam around Russia, and is making it a safety cushion for itself. Europe will fall into poverty and degradation, into conflicts motivated by religion and nationalism, Russia will have a huge hotbed of problems at its side, and the United States will again be left out and bleak!
    1. djon3volta
      -3
      April 18 2013 13: 49
      namely, precisely such a plan for them. If Russia is not destroyed by war, then it will be baited with Gentiles. But there is also nature that can wipe the United States off the face of the earth.
      who could predict 2 days ago about the explosion in Texas? no one. and who can predict that an explosion will occur in the usa in a month or a year, for example, no one. and if the us air force pilot hijacks a military plane and launches a rocket in the white house? who can this predict? no one too. so ...
  28. 120352
    +2
    April 18 2013 10: 52
    I love democracy, but even more so - Russia!
    Islam against democracy, at least Muslims, is brought up by Allah and similar inscriptions are inscribed on their slogans. Islam is slavish submission. So it is translated into Russian. What kind of democracy can we talk about here ?!
    Why are they coming here? Do you know that back in 1975 the World Islamic Conference decided to organize mass migration to Christian countries, lifted restrictions on the number of births of children in order to create Islamic demographic dominance in these countries ?! This is only a means, and the goal is to oust representatives of Christian and Slavic civilizations (Inquilism) from their ancestral territories and create a medieval Caliphate with a Sharia court. All this is in the relevant documents, which are not difficult to find on the Internet.
    Why is Islamic civilization alien and hostile to ours? (If you need examples - remember, at least, Boston).
    In our civilization there is no rigid division into friends and foes (For the Lord, there is neither a Greek nor a Jew). And in Islam, Allah constantly separates the "faithful" from the "infidels" and destroys the latter, i.e. you and me. It is not customary for us to lie, while Muhammad teaches: if a lie is beneficial to a Muslim, he has the right to lie to an unbeliever (and often lies to his own). A Muslim has the right to appropriate the property of infidels (and often his own). The rape of women and children of infidels (and often of their own) is the norm in Islam. Therefore, a Muslim who came from an Uzbek village, committing an act of theft, does not commit rape, according to the Koran, a crime and expresses some resentment if (although this rarely happens) he is punished for it. And pedophilia in Islam is the norm! How old was Aisha, the "prophet's" youngest wife, when he married her? SIX! And he lay down with her when she was NINE! (According to the Quran). Bestiality and homosexuality in Islam, apparently, are not encouraged, but forgiven. The concept of God in our civilization is always associated with good, with love. In Islam, the concept of good and love is not represented at all, except at the primitive, cave level: "I stole from you - this is good; you stole from me - this is evil." Self-interest, deceit, cruelty, readiness to steal - these are the signs of Islam.
    Xenophobia? Well no! Koran!
    Read.
    Previously, our civilization, the USSR, had a supra-religious character. Now, Asians and Caucasians did not have any production, economy. Islam has become a substitute for this.
    Islam is accepted out of ignorance, because of the fear of Muslims. But every day in the world about 16000 people go from Islam to Christianity. In Mali, after the bloody massacre perpetrated by the Islamists, more than a HUNDRED THOUSAND people left Islam and converted to Christianity. By the way, there are a lot of converts and among people with whom I have to interact. Units convert to Islam from Christianity.
    1. Murat 09
      0
      April 18 2013 14: 59
      And where have you read this, as a Muslim I’ll say that this democracy lover who even hides his name in nicknames says that it’s a lie about Islam. The fact that 16000 people leave Islam every day is ridiculous Muslims are growing every year in the world, what is Islam accepted because of fear ?, and what were 300 Russian Muslims afraid of, 000 native Frenchmen who converted to Islam every year, etc. Maybe they accept it not because of fear, but because they studied it and understood the truth of Faith.
  29. +1
    April 18 2013 10: 55
    St. Stefan in Vienna 16-17th century. laughing
    Nothing new.
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 11: 55
      Russia only loses from democracy
      democracy outside is beautiful
  30. Conepatus
    +2
    April 18 2013 11: 12
    Allow Saudi Arabia and Qatar to slip well and all Islamization will end, like most Islamic terrorist movements.
  31. abdul0686
    0
    April 18 2013 11: 38
    Who is able to put cons ... Give your irrefutable evidence regarding the Truth !!! And who is in the Truth ??? !!!
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 15: 25
      I do not set, but I will say about the Truth. How many Christians have been killed by a terrible death for professing faith? Millions, and more and more Christians. How many holy fathers survived the experience of communicating with God, a huge amount! Why not proof? Millions of witnesses!
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 15: 46
        Quote: Uncle
        Why not proof? Millions of witnesses!

        Some are not enough for a million, they ask to show a video or something like that. For others, the words of one person are enough.
  32. +3
    April 18 2013 11: 43
    For illegal immigrants, it is not necessary to build mosques, but to send them in echelons to their native places.
  33. pantech15
    0
    April 18 2013 11: 44
    for me, so the Soviet experience in terms of religion, without taking into account the years of fierce struggle with the church, I consider the most successful you can believe in any god, but this is considered a "bad" tone, I may not be right and they will condemn me, but even though I am Orthodox, I would have prohibited any construction NEW buildings of a religious cult, after all, faith should be inside a person, and when a cult with rich temples, garments of servants is made of this, people always appear who try to prove that I am more loyal to the cult than anyone else and then crusaders, Wahhabis, etc. appear. evil spirits
    1. Akatsubasa
      +1
      April 18 2013 11: 59
      For Buddhists, for example, there is only one temple on the territory of the European part, as far as I know, in St. Petersburg) Note: I have never seen any worship services of Buddhists blocking the streets, they do not cut any animals on the streets, among them it is generally considered bad to carry weapons (well, except extreme situations), they simply gather by their communities and modestly (emphasize modestly) perform their rituals. But we are building mosques for those who do exactly the opposite ... and then they still mock, they say Allah gives them money) Amazing shortsightedness)
  34. +2
    April 18 2013 11: 45
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?

    Samir Saleh al-Suwaleim, Khabib Abdl-Rahman ..., in general, a lot like a native of Saudi Arabia, according to some reports, he had Jordanian citizenship ..., there was even information that in fact the Yemeni Jew named his first daughter Sarah , in general, a man of the world of the western sample!
    We can reliably say that in 1987 he studied in the USA ... How and what he studied there is not a question for me, probably for the CIA! But after this training he became a real "fighter for the faith" further Afghanistan where he was seriously wounded, Azerbaijan, Chechnya where they finished off! About Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen ... I think there is no need to talk about the United States and Israel.
    1. Murat 09
      +1
      April 18 2013 13: 58
      Quote: Oper
      there was even information that in fact a Yemeni Jew who called his first daughter Sarah, in general, is a Western-born person!
      It can be reliably said that he studied in the USA in 1987 ... How and what he studied there is not a question for me, probably the CIA!

      1000 pluses per answer
  35. pantech15
    0
    April 18 2013 11: 45
    for me, so the Soviet experience in terms of religion, without taking into account the years of fierce struggle with the church, I consider the most successful you can believe in any god, but this is considered a "bad" tone, I may not be right and they will condemn me, but even though I am Orthodox, I would have prohibited any construction NEW buildings of a religious cult, after all, faith should be inside a person, and when a cult with rich temples, garments of servants is made of this, people always appear who try to prove that I am more loyal to the cult than anyone else and then crusaders, Wahhabis, etc. appear. evil spirits
  36. Nevsky
    +4
    April 18 2013 11: 48
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Murat 09
    Therefore do not trust the media

    And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?


    Sanya agrees.

    Really, I am not a Muslim, I must worry and be interested in which type and course of Islam preaching in a nearby mosque with my house? Should I graduate from the Faculty of Religious Studies and Philosophy to see the danger? I should know what Salafism and Wahhabism are, and how does it differ from traditional Islam? Pants tucked in socks and a beard? Until you restore order in your religion, for me Islam is the wild Middle Ages !!!

    12 year old boy chopping off the head of an adult uncle ... In the 90s, when there was no eating, my family and I moved to the village, at the age of 13 I chopped a chicken’s head, I didn’t tear it out and it was disgusting, but the Islamists are so easy here ... Maybe because in the traditions there is a ram massacre on holidays children, like you are a man, should cut well the neck of a warm-blooded, well, and by the way a man-like, as a likely opponent of Islam in the future?

    1. +1
      April 18 2013 13: 46
      Quote: Nevsky
      Really, I am not a Muslim, should worry and be interested in what kind and course of Islam is preached in a neighboring mosque with my house?

      If such a problem arose, then the question is, where is our state? What is its role in maintaining order? Who will our army defend if the enemy has already mixed with the citizens?
    2. Murat 09
      0
      April 18 2013 15: 02
      Nevsky, but what about those Russian teenagers of 12-16 years old who burned the homeless alive near the victory monument, what now should I consider all Russians to be sadists after all?
      As for the ram massacre, a man should not be afraid of blood, what kind of warrior or protector you are, if you faint from the type of blood, if you know a special forces soldier, ask him how they are trained, how they make dogs kill, dig in their guts, to overcome this fear .
      and as for cutting the throat, it’s bad, in Islam they don’t teach this, they teach it to scumbags.
      and yet, recently a company was drinking in the KCR, and in the process a quarrel arose and the Russian cut the throat of the Karachai, so Russians sometimes cut the throat, so why generalize.
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 15: 31
        Quote: Murat 09
        and about cutting the throat, it's bad

        How bad it is. But not everyone knows about it. They did this to Yevgeny Rodionov, cut off his head with a chainsaw for refusing to remove the cross. And now the Russian soldiers have one more heavenly intercessor, the Warrior Eugene! As our holy fathers say, "The blood of martyrs is the seed of Christianity."
  37. Vrungel78
    0
    April 18 2013 11: 50
    Joke. Read with expression.
    An Uzbek, a Tajik and a Chechen come into a Moscow restaurant. A waiter comes up to them and says: "Well, let's go ... from here!"
    1. -1
      April 18 2013 19: 27
      For Vrungel, some kind of evil joke, or maybe these people are veterans, met on May 9? A meeting of veterans who stood near Moscow.
      1. 0
        April 22 2013 13: 04
        Quote: Bekzat
        maybe these people are veterans

        Quote: Bekzat
        Uzbek, Tajik and Chechen

        Quote: Bekzat
        Chechen

        The first two, please. The latter did not fight for the Russian Federation / USSR.
  38. UFO
    0
    April 18 2013 11: 52
    Quote: Yeraz
    Well damn what is the fault of the Muslim, that the Russians do not give birth, do not scribble temples and not enough

    And who talks about the fault of Muslims in our troubles? It's just that Russia is not at its best right now, and, in order not to "sink into oblivion," it needs to keep the STATUS-QUO in relation to migration for a certain period. And what is happening is an artificially imposed process on us, and we understand that. Yes
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 12: 38
      Quote: UFO
      Quote: Yeraz
      Well damn what is the fault of the Muslim, that the Russians do not give birth, do not scribble temples and not enough

      And who talks about the fault of Muslims in our troubles? It's just that Russia is not at its best right now, and, in order not to "sink into oblivion," it needs to keep the STATUS-QUO in relation to migration for a certain period. And what is happening is an artificially imposed process on us, and we understand that. Yes

      You read the comments above, understand.
  39. 12061973
    0
    April 18 2013 12: 16
    an image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything, and people will destroy mosques instead of banks, and a new Fuhrer and a new order will appear, maybe even in Russia, history is a wheel and now mosques will be burned instead of synagogues, a crusade will be announced against the world Islam.
    1. Akatsubasa
      +1
      April 18 2013 12: 23
      As if on the contrary, everything did not work out. They will not burn mosques, but will burn all other temples, except mosques.
    2. 0
      April 18 2013 13: 23
      Quote: 12061973
      people will smash mosques

      Mosques have never been smashed, but churches - yes, and ours are Russians.
    3. +2
      April 18 2013 13: 28
      Quote: 12061973
      the image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything

      Question. And who forms it, if not the Muslims themselves?
      I can judge by the situation in Moscow. When there were very few of them, they were normal people, and with the addition of numbers, they become bolder and more aggressive. At the moment, this is a real threat and only corrupt officials do not notice it. However, as they will see it in armored vehicles and guarded cottages. But now I am leaving every time my wife returns from work if she works on the second shift.
  40. ed65b
    +6
    April 18 2013 12: 27
    Again there was a skirmish between Christians and Muslims. In almost all cities of Russia there are mosques and synagogues and churches (the latter may not be everywhere but where I lived for sure) There is a huge new mosque in Kemerovo, very beautiful and a cathedral. In Irkutsk and the synagogue and the church there are 2 pieces and temples. People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised. I think in private conversations about God they speak calmly, each has a different faith and God is one. The problem is not in traditional religions, but in foreign alien movements - Wahhabism, Sectarianism. For the most part, Wahs start to pile up in mosques at home. They should know their pastor’s face, and there is no shepherd, wolves get into the herd under sheep’s skins and will be corrupted. So more mosques are good and different, more temples and datsans.
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 12: 54
      Quote: ed65b
      Again there was a skirmish between Christians and Muslims. In almost all cities of Russia there are mosques and synagogues and churches (the latter may not be everywhere but where I lived for sure) There is a huge new mosque in Kemerovo, very beautiful and a cathedral. In Irkutsk and the synagogue and the church there are 2 pieces and temples. People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised. I think in private conversations about God they speak calmly, each has a different faith and God is one. The problem is not in traditional religions, but in foreign alien movements - Wahhabism, Sectarianism. For the most part, Wahs start to pile up in mosques at home. They should know their pastor’s face, and there is no shepherd, wolves get into the herd under sheep’s skins and will be corrupted. So more mosques are good and different, more temples and datsans.

      I fully support it. A real vision of the situation and real preventive measures.
    2. +1
      April 18 2013 13: 19
      Quote: ed65b
      People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised.

      Agreement never brought anyone to good. Everything is good in moderation. But what is this measure in this matter, we know well from the example of enlightened Europe. The trend is frightening. Therefore, let others not be so tolerant and amiable, especially against the backdrop of reckless culture, disrespect and aggression, so often demonstrated by representatives of the Muslim world.
  41. +1
    April 18 2013 12: 42
    Quote: 12061973
    an image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything, and people will destroy mosques instead of banks, and a new Fuhrer and a new order will appear, maybe even in Russia, history is a wheel and now mosques will be burned instead of synagogues, a crusade will be announced against the world Islam.

    Quote: Akatsubasa
    As if on the contrary, everything did not work out. They will not burn mosques, but will burn all other temples, except mosques.

    To prevent this from happening, it is not necessary to draw a parallel between a Muslim - an extremist - a terrorist.
    I would like to ask citing Syria and pseudo-Islamic groups of creators of atrocities, so who is opposing them there? Are there 90% Muslims in Syria and about 10 Christians ?! And is it not thanks to Western support that all these atrocities are happening in Syria ?!
    Don't turn all Muslims into enemies! For a long time already exaggerated scenario 3 world where Christians against Muslims will fight! Who are our Christians? West or what? Well, I do not! They will be our "allies" in this scenario, lend-lease and all that ... But when the belligerent parties are drowning in blood, the "allies" will bring "order and peace in the whole world"! Christians and Muslims will find it too little.
    1. UFO
      +2
      April 18 2013 13: 14
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Earlier - no, now - comes. Does your flag match your country of residence? If so, then you do not have this problem as acute as ours, then they do not go to you in trains, as to us. Yes
    2. Murat 09
      0
      April 18 2013 14: 00
      Again to the point post)))
  42. 0
    April 18 2013 13: 27
    What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 13: 42
      Quote: Uncle
      What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!

      Uncle, with all due respect, the crescent at the base does not symbolize Islam at all.
      1. -2
        April 18 2013 15: 01
        Quote: Flood
        Uncle, with all due respect, the crescent at the base does not symbolize Islam at all.

        The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam. So the Lord himself shows whose faith is right.
        1. 0
          April 18 2013 15: 34
          Quote: Uncle
          The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam.

          It is generally believed that crosses of this kind appear after liberation from Tatar-Mongol dominion in commemoration of the victory of Orthodoxy over Islam. This opinion does not hold water. Undoubtedly, the phenomenon that interests us arose even in the pre-Mongol period. This is eloquently testified, in particular, by a cross with a crescent on the dome of Vladimir Cathedral of St. Demetrius (1194-1197); this cross retains its original shape ...
          This kind of cross is found in the ancient period when depicting the church in miniatures and hallmarks of icons. So, for example, we meet him on miniatures of the so-called Servant Anthony Rimlyanin of the beginning of the XIV century .. Fedorovsky Gospel of 1321-1327, the Simon Psalter of the second quarter of the XIV century, the chronicles of George Amartol of the middle of the XIV century. , Sylvestrovsky collection of the XIV century., The Book of 1423 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, Psalms 1424 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, a collection until 1426 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, Ladders of the late XV century .; on the stigma of the Kiev icon of Nikola Zaraysk beginning of the XIV century. (Tretyakov Gallery), Novgorod icon of St. Nicholas with a life from the church of Boris and Gleb, XIV-XV century. (Novgorod Museum-Reserve) and on the icon of St. Nicholas of Mozhaisk from the Trinity-Sergius Monastery beginning of the XV century. (Tretyakov Gallery) ...
          It should be borne in mind that the crescent cross is one of the oldest forms of the cross in Russian churches. Another common form of the Russian dome cross is the so-called eight-pointed cross, i.e., a cross as close as possible to the image of the Crucifixion (with the upper crossbar symbolically representing a table with the inscription above the head of Christ, and the oblique lower crossbar indicating the foot). Both forms are canonical in nature, but the crescent-shaped domed cross is an older one, and the eight-pointed cross is a relatively newer one.

          Uspensky Boris Andreevich "Cross and Circle: From the History of Christian Symbolism"
          A long tradition that came to Russia from Byzantium. But the Muslims, apparently, began to use the symbol of the crescent after its capture.
          1. 0
            April 18 2013 17: 42
            Vladimir, what does the swastika mean? And the cross itself? the same symbol can have different meanings. So the swastika was known both in India and in Germany, the cross among the Jews is a symbol of shame and impurity, but here it is "life-giving". And the crescents under the crosses began to be actively placed precisely after the victory over the Turks. And, frankly, we would be ashamed to publish one of the millions of copies of one article on the net. I want to read what you think, not Ouspensky.
            1. 0
              April 18 2013 18: 35
              Quote: Uncle
              Vladimir, what does the swastika mean?

              What swastika? If you have come this far, dig a little deeper. Although I do not understand the attitude of the issue under discussion to the swastika.
              Quote: Uncle
              And, frankly, they would be ashamed to publish one of the millions of copies of one article from the network.

              What's so shameful? He gave a quote, wrote a source. It would be much more shameful for me to give out other people's words and thoughts as my own. In addition, I initially hinted at your error, you did not heed.
              If you want, I’ll provide a link to the article of the clergyman from the Russian Orthodox Church’s website regarding this particular issue. Also not that? What to please you? Maybe a scan from paper with the inscription of the author?
              Have you read "one of the millions of copies of one article"? Did you notice the lines about the Stoglava Cathedral? Read it for curiosity.
              Uncle, I deeply sympathize with what you wrote earlier. Justify your attacks.
        2. 0
          April 18 2013 16: 13
          Quote: Uncle
          The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam. So the Lord himself shows whose faith is right.

          Dima, I'm disappointed.
          I thought you were smarter.
          Such crosses stand on old temples built before the 17th century. By the way, the shape of the old bell towers until the 17th century is different, it is pyramidal. The Easter alarm is also in the shape of a truncated pyramid, think about something at your leisure why.
          Religion cannot be considered separately from history. Think, Dima, think.
          God has given you a head not only to overshadow its banner of the cross.
          1613 is a key year not only in Russian history, but also in world history.
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 16: 36
            Quote: baltika-18
            I thought you were smarter.

            I'm even dumber than you can imagine. smile
            Quote: baltika-18
            God has given you a head not only to overshadow its banner of the cross.

            That's for sure, I eat in it. smile
            1. 0
              April 18 2013 19: 12
              Quote: Uncle
              That's right, I eat it

              I got what you mean......
              And no more .......
              Thinking and analyzing is not for believers.
              They have already come up with everything ...
              Dogma, dogma, dogma .......
              1. +1
                April 18 2013 19: 48
                Quote: baltika-18
                Thinking and analyzing is not for believers.
                They have already come up with everything ...
                Dogma, dogma, dogma .......

                And the hand reaches for the minus. Why so harshly about believers?
                You know, it is sometimes useful for young children not to be mistaken in their wrongness, even if it is the result of an active thought process, but to take on faith what parents say. Understanding will come with time.
                That's about the same attitude I have towards God and the Bible.
    2. PN
      -1
      April 18 2013 17: 48
      I read somewhere that the crescent moon at the base of the cross symbolizes the grail in which the blood of Christ flowed after he was pierced with a spear.
      1. 0
        April 18 2013 18: 04
        Quote: PN
        into which the blood of Christ flowed

        None of the evangelists writes that the blood of Christ was collected.
  43. +1
    April 18 2013 13: 31
    Nothing, nothing, European mass culture leaves its mark on Muslims, and so some of them cannot distinguish reality from fiction ^^
    Zafanatel dude ^^
    "A member of the Council of Muftis accused Christians of 'shedding the blood of innocent' orcs and demons from Warhammer 40000
    Islamic theologian ranked techno-fantasy characters among the European Inquisition "


    http://www.nr2.ru/culture/433296.html
  44. 0
    April 18 2013 13: 40
    Quote: PrikVO 84-86
    After the conquest of Kazan by Ivan the Terrible, there were no big excesses. Between Russians and Tatars. Is not it so?

    Absolutely not. Despite assimilation (many Tatar and Bashkir clans from the khans became princes, nobles, etc.) the uprisings of the Tatars and Bashkirs subsided only by the end of the 18th century! The Leninist policy of flirting with national minorities, the creation of national republics and autonomies at that time (1917-1922) was correct for the territorial preservation of the country in the form of the USSR, but by 1991 its consequences led to the collapse of the USSR and the growth of nationalism within the Russian Federation.
  45. big banzai
    +2
    April 18 2013 14: 06
    I'll put in my five cents !!! Well, what can I say, first of all it is very sad, in the Orthodox state there should be no mosques, not because I am not tolerant, but because in the same Mecca and Medina there are not and will not be Orthodox churches or churches of other confessions (for obvious reasons) !! !! The second is that the "Islamization of Europpa" is being pushed by the Masons (Jews who serve the Antichrist and are waiting for his arrival, that is, the Jews (they are because they are eating the Messiah or the Mission), they think that the Messiah will come and give them power, but the Mission came and taught on the other, they of course crucified him because he did not give them the kingdom of the earth and did not set them to rule the peoples (or goyim, i.e. all non-Jews, and they were waiting for this and are still waiting for this) but taught about the Kingdom of Heaven and actually for this he was crucified) So why then "Islamization" and not say "Buddhization" or something else ??? Yes, because Islam is not a religion at all (may the Muslims forgive me), Islam is an ideology with a religious connotation !!! Islam through the Koran governs all aspects of Muslim life !!!! If the Bible and Christianity are essentially a dialogue between man and God (where God taught and man obeyed or not and received, depending on his choice, a worthy reward), then Islam and the Koran are a strict prescription of what to do, how to live, how to dress, how think, fight, carry on propaganda and even how to beat his wife correctly (if the Muslims do not agree, then here are the links http://ibigdan.livejournal.com/12275844.html and the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33 -Of_dcsg, I'm not even talking about young wives who are taken from even 9 years old, and this is not surprising because the Prophet himself took a wife when she was 6 years old and lived with her sexually when she was 9 years old http: // vk. com / video37840909_155098517)
  46. big banzai
    +2
    April 18 2013 14: 06
    all this is not otherwise an ideology! Those. ideology kills all kinds of creative thinking, kills at the root of attempts to compare and critical analysis, all so that people piously believe and do not ask unnecessary questions !!! those. such a mass is easier to manage !!!!!! in contrast, the Bible at the very beginning says that the Lord created man in his own image and likeness and gave him FREEDOM OF WILL, he did not make him a robot, he just asked not to eat from that tree in the garden !!!! And the man himself made a choice !!!! This is a huge gap between confessions !!! (of course, I do not force you to agree with everything, and of course you should make sure of this if necessary or in case of doubt in my words, YOURSELF and only yourself to be convinced of this) So what is the point, but that Muslims, like Christians, are waiting for the second coming Christ, since Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior is known in the Islamic world as the Prophet Isa !!! and the Islamic world is waiting for his coming and, of course, will take him for a prophet and will follow him as the Messenger of Allah and, accordingly, they will accept him, considering him Isa, but he deftly deceives them, since he has great power and can even appear in the form angel (Corinthians Chapter 11 Verse 14: "And no wonder: because Satan himself takes the form of an Angel of light") or even Christ, which he will do !!!! And what does the Bible and Holy Tradition say through the Holy Fathers ??? And the fact that before the coming of the Mission there will be a seven-year reign of the Antichrist, who will pretend to be Jesus, but will be the Antichrist in essence, and during the years of his reign there will be persecutions against Christians, and only AFTER that Jesus will come and he will be visible to everyone and he will judge us for our deeds !!!! in the traditions of the Holy Fathers, all the signs of both the coming of the Antichrist and the subsequent coming of Jesus our Savior will also be indicated !!!
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 15: 02
      What kind of clone appeared? Are there few crosses? I do not mind, but suddenly you start to carry nonsense, they will think of me. smile
      1. -1
        April 18 2013 16: 17
        Quote: Uncle
        What kind of clone appeared? Are there few crosses? I do not mind, but suddenly you start to carry nonsense, they will think of me.

        What to worry about, while it seems to be no different.
  47. big banzai
    +3
    April 18 2013 14: 07
    what can we conclude: the Islamization of Europpa, like the whole world, is one of the parts of the global plan that is being pushed by the world government (you cannot call it Satanic) in preparation for the coming of the Antichrist and for his rule! Antichrist will be accepted by the Western world as well as the Muslim world, considering him the prophet Isa, BUT the Orthodox world will not accept him, and here it is important to note that not the Christian world, but the Orthodox one (the question is why, but because Western Christianity (Catholic Protestants, Baptists, Adventists and all movements based on Christianity) in fact is a deviation from the true faith of Christ - Orthodoxy, because it is Orthodoxy that is the religion that Christ founded and is its pastor, since it says "Matthew Chapter 16 Verse 18: and I tell you: you are Peter, and to this stone I will create My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it "- And not those beliefs of the West that appeared in the 18-19 centuries on the basis of Christianity, and the Catholics themselves are essentially apostates) !!! Well, while there is no antichrist, preparations are underway for his coming, and the more people accept him (the antichrist) the better, since the antichrist, or Satan, wants to destroy all people, since people are the beloved of the Creator's creations !!! This may sound like a religiously dogmatic nonsense, but the more events take place in the world, the more this is confirmed, since attacks and aggression are directed at Orthodox countries !! Well, in the end, the Lord Jesus teaches us through the Bible: Matthew Chapter 6 Verse 33: Seek first the Kingdom of God "but on earth there is no Kingdom of God because the ruler of this world is Satan, this is known from the Bible (On the night before his death, Jesus three times spoke to his disciples about this god, whom he called “the ruler of this world.” Jesus said that this mighty ruler, or god, “will be cast out.” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) Who is this ruler and over what world does he rule? It is none other than the rebellious angel, Satan the Devil. How is this I will give you if you fall and worship me "" (Matthew 4: 8,9). There would have been no temptation if Satan did not really possess all this. The Apostle John also wrote: "The whole world lies in the power of the Evil One" ( 1 John 5:19).) And for us Orthodox Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Cypriots, Serbs and all the Orthodox brothers hopes to trust in the Lord and only in him and his mercy! Save the Lord, and as they say in the 22nd Psalm "let not be afraid" !!!
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 15: 57
      Quote: big-banzai
      but the more events occur in the world, the more this is confirmed as attacks and aggression go on the Orthodox countries !!


      Quote: big-banzai
      And for us Orthodox Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Cypriots, Serbs and all Orthodox brethren, it remains to rely on the Lord and only on him and his mercy! Save the Lord, and as they say in the 22nd Psalm "let not be afraid" !!!


      Well said.
      We must stick together. How many times have noticed that in Greece and Serbia (not to mention Ukraine and Belarus) it is much more comfortable for me than in other countries: one mentality, the usual way of life. Although we chew far apart.
      Faith is just one.

      I repeat: I am tolerant, but the mass construction of mosques in Athens: this is a bust.
  48. abdul0686
    -2
    April 18 2013 14: 50
    Quote: Uncle
    What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!

    Dear, I have a question for you. You claim that "Christ is the True God!" (i.e. understand the Creator of everything)?
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 14: 59
      Quote: abdul0686
      You claim that "Christ is the True God!" (i.e. understand the Creator of everything)?

      Have you heard about the Trinity of the Creator? "I and the Father are one"
  49. 0
    April 18 2013 15: 06
    Again I recommend reading:
    "The new novel by the famous writer E. Chudinova, written in the genre of dystopia, this time tells about our possible future. The European Union one fine morning declares Islam as the state religion. Notre Dame Cathedral turns into a cathedral mosque, as it once happened with St. Sophia in Constantinople - A novel about terrorism and resistance, the ghetto and the catacomb Catholic Church, is a poignant prophecy like Huxley's famous "Oh Brave New World" or Orwell's 1984.
    The "old" Europeans are exiled to the ghetto, their daughters are scattered to harems and brothels. The Catholic Church goes into the catacombs, as in the days of the persecution of the first Christians. Only a handful of underground fighters are still fighting. Submit or fight, even without hope of victory - such a choice is faced by all who still remember their glorious ancestors. Behind the adventures of the heroes of the book lies a difficult choice that we must realize. "
  50. big banzai
    +2
    April 18 2013 15: 33
    democracy in hell! in heaven the kingdom of heaven! A little bit about the Trinity, here Muslims say that we are the pilgrims pointing to our Holy Trinity !!! But here it’s better to clarify, we (Orthodox) are not treachers, we have One Lord in three hypostases !!! Zakharia found a simple explanation of the trinity: Father was created in the image of God and the man himself consists of 1) body, 2) soul and 3) mind (spirit), all three make up the nature of man, and the Lord is triune, i.e. one in three hypostases: the Lord the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ are whole and one !!!! In the video presented, father Zakhary explains this very clearly in the 11 minute video!
    1. Rrv
      Rrv
      -2
      April 18 2013 16: 15
      Interestingly, it turns out that one part of the whole prays to the other part and recognizes its primacy.

      By the way, Zachary got a little confused: the will is a function of the mind (spirit), and the functions of the so-called soul are emotions, feelings.
      1. +2
        April 18 2013 16: 24
        Quote: RRV
        the will is a function of the mind (spirit), and the functions of the so-called soul are emotions, feelings.

        Did you read this in the medical encyclopedia?
        This time explain to me, dear man, how you can put an equal sign between mind and spirit.
        1. Rrv
          Rrv
          0
          April 18 2013 16: 51
          For obvious reasons, this is not written in the medical encyclopedia - the conclusions follow from the analysis of the conceptual apparatus:

          The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind.
          A spiritual person is called a person who does not allow himself to commit negative acts, for example, therefore he controls his actions, and control of his own actions (possible only if there is a will) is a function of the mind.

          So it turns out that the concept of spirit corresponds to the concept of reason.
          1. +1
            April 18 2013 17: 04
            Quote: RRV
            The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind.

            How can will be considered a function of the mind? Let's figure it out together: it's kind of like I think we need to do this and that, and by the power of my mind I force myself to do it. So what?
            But then the sensory side of man can be considered controlled by the mind. Therefore, is the soul also functionally subordinate to the mind? Do not be foolish, this is what I will advise you.
            Spirit and mind are largely antagonistic.
            Excerpts from Berdyaev:
            Spirit is not only a different reality than the reality of the natural world, but also reality in a different sense. Spirit is freedom and free energy, breaking into the natural and historical world. It is necessary to affirm the relative truth of dualism, without which the independence of spiritual life is not understood. But this is not the dualism of spirit and matter, or of soul and body. This is, above all, the dualism of freedom and necessity. Spirit is freedom, not nature ...
            Achievement of spirituality is liberation from the power of the world and social environment; it is like a breakthrough of numen into phenomena. The growth of spirituality in man is not a natural evolutionary process. Where freedom operates, there is no necessary process where creativity operates; there is no evolution in the naturalistic sense of the word. Spirituality is the task assigned to man in relation to life. The paradox is that the growth of spirituality is carried out by the spiritual power embodied in a person, this growth cannot be the result of non-spiritual states. The higher will never come from the lower, which does not contain any beginnings of the higher, nor any of its potentialities.
            1. Rrv
              Rrv
              -1
              April 18 2013 17: 41
              You understood, in principle, correctly, it is not clear just how on your part such a rejection of the obvious. )))

              The sensual side can be controlled by the mind, but more often it is the other way around - emotions or instincts take over.

              The system - the body, feelings (soul), mind (spirit) - is very closely connected, but not identical, and the antagonism between spirit and mind exists only in your imagination (spirit - a sublime literary and philosophical, mind - a real materialistic - that’s all the difference).

              As for Berdyaev, if we discard the bombastic philosophical tinsel, “Spirit is freedom” will remain, and freedom is the ability and opportunity to realize one's conscious intention within the framework of physical, biological, social and other laws.

              By the way, I did not recognize your understanding of the term "spirit".
              1. +1
                April 18 2013 18: 16
                Quote: RRV
                By the way, I did not recognize your understanding of the term "spirit".

                Alas, I did not go through philosophy departments. I'm afraid if I start going into details, we will finally lose the thread of conversation.
                I can only push you in the direction that seems right to me.
                Quote: RRV
                The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind. A spiritual person is called a person who does not allow himself to commit negative acts, for example

                Is it possible to deny the availability of willpower to the great but bloody dictators who had a place in the history of mankind? Hardly. In any case, to many of them.
                Does this mean the high spirituality that was present in these personalities? I doubt very much.
                Will ... Spirit ... Spirituality ... It seems so close and so far apart.
                Quote: RRV
                freedom is the ability and ability to realize one’s conscious intention within the framework of physical, biological, social and other laws

                Again you are old. If we are talking about the freedom of the spirit, then it is in no way limited to ANY framework. In addition to moral.
                You bring an understanding of freedom, close to civil liberties. Do not land the sublime.
                1. Rrv
                  Rrv
                  -1
                  April 18 2013 19: 07
                  "Do not land the sublime" - the fact of the matter is that it is sublime only in the sphere of myths, and not in reality.

                  "Can you refuse ..." - You can't refuse, but restraining negative actions is just an example.
                  How is willpower manifested? It manifests itself through mental effort - a person consciously does what he does not want, or does not do what he wants to do, or despite all the difficulties (manifested in emotions - laziness, apathy, fear, etc.) forces himself to act or to act . What allows a person to make this effort? Mind. It turns out that the will (volitional action) is a function and a consequence of the mind.

                  Now spirit and spirituality: there was a substitution of concepts and "spirit" was privatized by religious movements. Do you deny the strength of mind to bloody dictators? The question is not in spirituality itself, but in its quality, in the morality you mentioned.

                  "... about freedom of spirit ..." - this freedom is just limited: by education, and the characteristics of the nervous system, and the conditions of existence, and much more. An example is Mowgli children: without an adequate social environment, such a child does not learn to speak, mental activity remains in an embryonic state and there can be no talk of the presence of a spirit in people who grew up among animals.

                  But civil liberties are from the "opera about a social contract", and they have a relation to spirituality only to the extent that people set the goal of acquiring these freedoms and, by a willful decision, force themselves to overcome resistance to achieve this goal. )))
                  1. +1
                    April 18 2013 19: 57
                    Quote: RRV
                    How is willpower manifested? It manifests itself through mental effort - a person consciously does what he does not want, or does not do what he wants to do, or despite all the difficulties (manifested in emotions - laziness, apathy, fear, etc.) forces himself to act or to act . What allows a person to make this effort? Mind. It turns out that the will (volitional action) is a function and a consequence of the mind.

                    I'm in a hurry. So short. A man forces himself to do what he does not want mainly in situations where conscience, morality, morality dictate to him. Unless, of course, this will is not imposed on him from outside, but is voluntary.
                    Does this mean that he does so guided by reason and logic? Of course not. Because in many situations it would be wiser to do the opposite (save your life, health, well-being).
                    Exceptional willpower is precisely manifested in exceptional cases involving a risk to life. Why are people taking such a risk? For the sake of an idea, for the sake of love. But nothing else.
                    Sorry, see you tomorrow. I'm running away.
                    1. Rrv
                      Rrv
                      -1
                      April 18 2013 20: 48
                      Conscience, morality, and even morality are subjective causes of the situation of choice (do-not-do), but a person makes a conscious choice often overcoming himself and his instincts - sometimes, for objective reasons, even moral and moral attitudes must be overcome.

                      As for risk, it can be based on affective and trance states, but there can also be a calculation when to sacrifice oneself means to sacrifice less.

                      When emotions and instincts are blocked, and a person, in spite of everything, acts according to a previously consciously chosen program, then this action is a manifestation of spirit / will power.
  51. ed65b
    0
    April 18 2013 15: 57
    An Orthodox state should not have mosques, not because I am not tolerant, but because in the same Mecca and Medina there are not and will not be Orthodox churches or churches of other faiths (for known reasons)!!!!

    Let's start with the fact that Russia is not an Orthodox state; our church is separated from the state. Russia was initially formed as a multi-confessional society. In the history of Rus' there are no examples of the total destruction of peoples during the “Expansion”; there is assimilation and mutual respect, or, if you want, mutual tolerance. There were no crusades. The capital of our homeland must fully represent all the peoples living on our territory. Accordingly, there should be religious buildings. What is the policy of conciliation? Let's destroy all mosques, synagogues, datsans, churches and rejoice in the ashes, making the sign of the cross. Do you think this will be correct? And then we’ll go to burn mosques in Tatarstan in Buryatia and in Altai we’ll burn datsans, I’m silent about the Caucasus and so everything is clear, then we’ll rush to burn synagogues and churches throughout the country, or maybe better yet we’ll immediately burn the people who visit them. And then grace will come to us; there are no one around, only Orthodox Christians. would this be right????? Let Europe and the entire Western world do and live as they want, they want to accept Islam, they want to convert gay and lesbian relationships into the form of religion. This is their destiny written from above. And in our country, stop muddying the waters. If my brother is a Muslim and I am a Christian, what should I do - kill him or should he kill me? Only in the unity of our traditional religions is the future of the country.
    1. +2
      April 18 2013 17: 31
      Quote: ed65b
      And in our country, stop muddying the waters.

      Well, stop messing around. I can’t speak otherwise about this phrase:
      Quote: ed65b
      If my brother is a Muslim and I am a Christian, what should I do - kill him or should he kill me?

      Find at least one similar call. He won't find it. So what was this on your part? Provocation or unconscious impulse of feelings?
      And now in the case:
      Quote: ed65b
      Only in the unity of our traditional religions is the future of the country.

      Why are they calling for tradition? Because it was there, in that strong Russia, that such an abundance of problems, including those of a national nature, did not arise. Because it is in traditions and their history that people draw creative power.
      So let's talk about traditional Russia at this time. About Russia, where visitors did not boast of their rudeness and did not go on horseback on their own initiative on the streets of Russian cities. And they were treated, if not with reverence, then at least with respect.
  52. Rrv
    Rrv
    -2
    April 18 2013 16: 02
    This is all very strange request
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 16: 38
      Such robes existed back in the time of the Patriarchs of Canstantinople during the Byzantine period. You will also remember about the crescents under the crosses on the domes of churches. (Symbols: Temple ship, cross anchor in the sky)
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        -3
        April 18 2013 16: 57
        You can, of course, fantasize about ships with anchors, but you can remember which religions Christianity and Islam are derivatives of.

        The cross as a symbol of Christianity, by the way, is also a rather late innovation; the original symbol was a fish.
        1. 0
          April 18 2013 17: 25
          Christians are the heirs of the true worship of Adam, Noah, Abraham, David and other righteous people. And the Jews killed their Messiah, as well as almost all their prophets, for which they were expelled from the Promised Land for almost two thousand years, distorted this worship of God, although some repented.
          1. Rrv
            Rrv
            -3
            April 18 2013 17: 58
            In general, this is a rather categorical and unfounded statement on your part - neither Muslims nor Jews will probably agree with you, and besides, questions arise regarding the righteousness of the biblical characters you listed (not to mention questions regarding the reality of their existence).
  53. 0
    April 18 2013 16: 14
    Quote: UFO
    Previously - no, now - it comes. Does your flag correspond to your country of residence? If yes, then this problem is not as acute for you as it is for us, which means they are not coming to you in trains as they are to us.

    No. The flag corresponds to the country where I am currently located. I am a citizen of Russia.
  54. +2
    April 18 2013 16: 33
    Quote: Flood
    that is, you are against the construction of mosques, say, in Moscow or St. Petersburg?

    No, I’m not against it, but the construction of cathedrals and mosques must first of all meet the interests of the indigenous population and be proportional to those permanently residing in a given region, as well as be built in places, districts, regions, cities by prior agreement with the residents, at the request of the majority or by themselves.
    1. +3
      April 18 2013 16: 50
      Quote: Oper
      No, I’m not against it, but the construction of cathedrals and mosques must first of all meet the interests of the indigenous population and be proportional to those permanently residing in a given region, as well as be built in places, districts, regions, cities by prior agreement with the residents, at the request of the majority or by themselves.

      Then what did you call above “comprehensive support for Islam”?
      It is precisely these same indigenous residents who are already in trouble for the Islamization of their hometowns and villages, which is uncontrolled and does not take into account the opinion of the indigenous population.
      Nobody argues about the need to build mosques in the original places of residence of Muslims.
  55. big banzai
    +3
    April 18 2013 16: 52
    Quote: ed65b
    Let's start with the fact that Russia is not an Orthodox state.

    And I wasn’t talking about Russia, but about Greece, since the material in the article that I commented on concerned Greece specifically, be careful!!! And then, are there Christian Temples in Mecca and Medina??? No !!! why then should they be in Greece in Athens??? Why are Christians persecuted and killed in Islamic countries and we (Christians of Russia and other countries) should be tolerant and allow temples to be built on our lands??? Why do Islamic countries require you to pay tax just because you are not a Muslim???? You are wrong ! Russia is precisely an Orthodox state, which was founded by the Orthodox under the banner of the Savior, and expanded into a vast territory by the Orthodox too! In your opinion, the country on the Coat of Arms of which St. George the Victorious has been depicted since time immemorial is not Orthodox????? so you are deeply mistaken!!! I agree, the Russian people did not destroy a single people (as, for example, the conquerors of America, Australia, New Zealand did) and did not oppress anyone, and only because they were Orthodox and Orthodoxy is a religion of Peace, kindness and tolerance, unlike Islam!!! And the Orthodox are putting up with it for now, but the Muslims are sitting on their necks and thinking that it will always be like this!!! I do not call for destroying mosques and killing Muslims, and if you are not satisfied with the order in Moscow or anywhere else, please, there is Grozny, there is Ufa, Kazan!! live there!!! We did not destroy the Muslims of these cities in order to impose the norms of Christianity and did not exterminate the inhabitants of these villages as Muslims did in Serbia, in Cyprus in Byzantium, we did not instill our faith in them through persecution, intimidation and murder, as the Muslims did??? There is no need to meddle with your charter in our monastery!!! I don’t like it when Islamic communities in Europe say that, for example, the cross on the flag of Switzerland offends their religious feelings!!!! Sorry, but this also exists in Russia and this is already a trend!!! I agree that, quote: “The capital of our homeland should fully represent all the peoples living on our territory.” But I absolutely disagree with the fact that: “Accordingly, there should be religious buildings” why should they??? don't owe anyone anything! You have “your” lands on the territory of Russia, which no one took away from you, you have your own leaders, government, build Mosques and no one will say a word to you!!! If you do not agree, then let's write a petition to the King of Saudi Arabia about the beginning of the construction of Orthodox Temples on the territory of Mecca and Medina, and when the King signs them and gives the go-ahead, then we will talk!!!! p.s. If you are truly a Christian, then you must convert your brother to Christianity and thereby give him hope of salvation!!! God bless you!
  56. big banzai
    +1
    April 18 2013 17: 05
    Quote: Flood
    It is precisely these same indigenous residents who are already in trouble for the Islamization of their hometowns and villages, which is uncontrolled and does not take into account the opinion of the indigenous population.
    Nobody argues about the need to build mosques in the original places of residence of Muslims.



    I agree absolutely!!! But for this opinion we are considered xenophobes and intolerant anti-Islamists
  57. 12061973
    0
    April 18 2013 17: 11
    in Dagestan there are many mosques, even in pedagogical colleges there are ones and they preach for every taste, if anyone knows, it’s almost like gays in France, but life is getting worse and worse, and if the Muslims of Europe think that by building mosques they will be better off, this mistake, God loves those who work and live according to the laws, if not his, at least the Criminal Code.
  58. +2
    April 18 2013 17: 26
    Quote: Flood
    Then what did you call above “comprehensive support for Islam”?

    Well, first of all, I spoke before about strengthening the Orthodox Church. Secondly, I talked about comprehensive support for TRADITIONAL Islam. This is called taking words out of context. Now, as for support itself. I think this is, first of all, educational work with the population and with the Orthodox, Muslims and atheists... Orthodoxy and Islam are the traditional religions of the peoples of our state; there are absolutely no serious contradictions between them that can be reflected at the everyday level. This needs to be explained to children from school. This should involve quite a bit of work at the state level. We can talk a lot about this, there is not enough space and time here (and the spouse will be offended for inattention and will cry), but existing laws must be tightened and new ones must be adopted providing for tougher punishments for religious extremism in all its manifestations and at the everyday level, for insult , desecration of shrines, etc.
    Here, unfortunately, the problem as a whole is not actually discussed, but is said primarily about the everyday level - they say they got it... I agree, it happens! So this is where it is necessary to conduct educational work to educate Muslim youth (and not only). I said about the role of the state; religious figures also have an important role. The greater the role traditionalist Muslim preachers play in the education of Muslim youth, the better. The more mosques there are (where and how to read the previous post) in which the true values ​​of Islam are preached, the fewer Wahhabis there will be, etc.
    And lastly, I have already answered that I am a citizen of Russia, I will add - Russian, Orthodox, born in Moscow. I have been dealing with the issue that is being raised here since the 1st Chechnya and not in the office.
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 17: 47
      Quote: Oper
      Well, first of all, I spoke before about strengthening the Orthodox Church. Secondly, I talked about comprehensive support for TRADITIONAL Islam. This is called taking words out of context.

      Then the first question is: do you think that Muslims in Russia today are somehow infringed upon in their right to worship and perform religious rituals?
      If yes, what does this mean?
      If not, why do you need additional support?
      Taking words out of context means manipulating individual phrases in order to distort the original meaning. I did not distort the meaning of what you wrote. Or am I wrong? I did not write anything about extremist radical Islamic movements, or about your attitude to this issue.
      Today in Russia there is a decline in Orthodox culture. The culture that created and increased the Russian state. And you write about supporting Islam. Is someone attacking him to make him need her? Islam needs to be cleansed of radical teachings. But this, excuse me, is largely a matter for the Muslims themselves. There is no way someone from outside can teach them which are the correct interpretations of the Koran and which are not. The state can only monitor the legality of the activities of numerous Islamic organizations and suppress extremism.
      Quote: Oper
      existing laws should be tightened and new ones should be adopted providing for tougher penalties for religious extremism in all its manifestations and at the everyday level, for insulting and desecrating holy places

      Agree. But today Orthodox shrines will be desecrated. And religious extremism is precisely observed on the part of Muslims. Even in this seemingly correct sentence of yours, in my opinion, everything cannot be written in one line.
  59. big banzai
    0
    April 18 2013 18: 13
    Quote: Oper
    TRADITIONAL Islam.

    Dear! There is a link above that I posted in my post, to a video in which Father Zechariah gives the definition of traditional Islam and non-traditional Islam!!! Islam as an ideology is extremism without cuts, the Koran calls for this, and there is no traditional Islam here - if you like, not following all the norms and regulations is a form of “traditionality” in our country, but in its pure form it is extremism, i.e. what we consider in Russia to be “traditional Islam” in Islamic countries is nothing more than apostasy and NOT fulfilling the will of the Almighty!!!
    Quote: Oper
    Orthodoxy and Islam are the traditional religions of the peoples of our state; there are absolutely no serious contradictions between them that can be reflected at the everyday level

    Islam is the traditional religion of small peoples living on the territory of Russia but not the majority of the people of Russia, firstly, secondly, there are colossal contradictions between these religions (in belief, in worship, in judgment, in worldview, etc., etc.) and in particular, which manifest themselves at the everyday level - for example: wearing a hijab in schools and public places, sacrifices on the streets and the ban on drinking alcoholic beverages in Islamic countries (in fact, this is even a plus), etc.
    Quote: Oper
    So this is where we need to carry out educational work to educate Muslim youth (and not only)

    Education begins in the family, and if the family is devout, true Muslims, then they (youth) will be brought up in an environment of intolerance towards other beliefs, in an environment of superiority and supremacy of a Muslim over a non-Muslim, in an environment of hatred and hostility towards KAFIRS (infidels)
    Quote: Oper
    in which the true values ​​of Islam will be preached, the fewer Wahhabis, etc.

    It is absolutely NOT TRUE, there is Islam in Russia, which is more tolerant (since it existed in a country in which Islam does not dominate and therefore showed tolerance), and there is traditional Islam, which is essentially Wahhabism! There is no need to confuse the concepts and mislead people!!! Islam, both traditional and Wahhabi, is based on one book, the Koran!!! And true Islam is Wahhabism!!! In Russia, the whole difference is in the people who live in the majority society and the majority are Christians, since in Russia there are approximately 85% Russians and Slavs!! Our Russian Muslims are the same threat to “true Muslims” as Christians, Jews, Hare Krishnas, Buddhists and others! because they do not contribute to the construction of the caliphate, but on the contrary, they slow it down with their inaction and their TOLERANCE towards non-Muslims and distortion of the true values ​​of Islam, and they are also doomed to destruction during the Jihad!!!
  60. big banzai
    0
    April 18 2013 18: 24
    Quote: Flood
    Agree. But today Orthodox shrines will be desecrated. And religious extremism is precisely observed on the part of Muslims. Even in this seemingly correct sentence of yours, in my opinion, everything cannot be written in one line.


    Christianity and Christians are primarily desecrated by the followers of Islam!!! Let's take Africa, every day there is a report that the Temple was destroyed, shrines were desecrated, an explosion occurred, a former Muslim who accepted Christ in Iran was hanged, etc. and from this news the Internet is buzzing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVbAe4IrwQM and there are more and more new martyrs every day!!!
  61. NAPOLEON
    +2
    April 18 2013 18: 40
    What about Europe? In the Krasnodar region of the Rostov region, there is a process of squeezing out Russians and this is not even hidden.
  62. ed65b
    0
    April 18 2013 19: 15
    But there is traditional Islam, which is essentially Wahhabism! There is no need to confuse the concepts and mislead people!!! Islam, both traditional and Wahhabi, is based on one book, the Koran!!!
    With the same success, I can give you as an example all the Christian sects of a totalitarian orientation. Everything is based on the Bible. There is no point in entering into theological disputes with people who hear only themselves; let everyone remain with their own opinion. Your posts didn’t convince me. There is a sound grain in the details, but not in general.
  63. rinat1955
    -2
    April 18 2013 19: 35
    Are Wahhabism and Tatar Islam all the same for you? Or do you want it that way? You are playing with fire... read the book “Tatar Strike”, what will happen if the Russians and the Tatars (and other Muslims of Russia) have a fight.
    Those who are not up to date on the military-industrial complex have mostly stayed in those parts.
    They don’t like the Caucasus... have five children each, and no one will bother you. What do you want, you are weak - that's it, they will eat you! Darwinism! First you ate the Tatars (as they say, “They took Astrakhan, they took Kazan, but they didn’t take Shpak”) now the Caucasus will devour you. Moreover, pray to God that it is the Caucasus, and not the Taliban or Pakistanis, I’m generally silent about the loyal Leninists from the PLA.
    If we put aside the splashes, I can propose a solution to the problem with mosqueization (which is what the article is actually about) the norms of Islam allow prayers to be carried out in Orthodox churches (Orthodox brothers are the faithful, but atheists are precisely those same infidels). If there is such a religious norm, why not allow collective prayer in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior (it was built with the money of Muscovites, including Muslims) in Moscow on Kurban Bayram (in the fall).
    By the way... if you compare the Perervinsky temple (I live nearby), it’s one like any religious complex in Central Asia, even the domes are blue.

    For some reason, this possibility of using Orthodox churches for the purposes of religious reconciliation is carefully avoided.
    Muslims enter the temple without shoes, before doing so they are required to thoroughly wash their feet and hands... there will be no loss to the temple, to the priests, yes, but to the temple and the Orthodox, no.
    1. Murat 09
      -1
      April 18 2013 19: 56
      Rinat hit the nail on the head)))
    2. Anti
      +1
      April 18 2013 20: 19
      Quote: rinat1955
      For some reason, this possibility of using Orthodox churches for the purposes of religious reconciliation is carefully avoided.


      Yeah. Who wants to divide the clearing? laughing
    3. big banzai
      0
      April 18 2013 23: 20
      Dear, we must not forget that Tatarstan is part of Russia, and not Russia is part of Tatarstan, right? And even more so, there is no need to scare us with books or all sorts of blows or the opportunity to quarrel with the Tatars and Russians or Muslims and Christians, it is simply not necessary, since this is not beneficial for you, not for us, and it is not known who is pursuing this policy of pitting one against the other, and it is not known who else is here will win!! Just don’t bring it up, Agreed?
      Quote: rinat1955
      Have five children at a time, and no one will bother you.

      but here you are right, I agree!
  64. 0
    April 18 2013 19: 47
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.

    Our lawmakers are also building mosques to the full. So it won’t work out. When the patience of the people bursts, then these built mosques in Russia will be dismantled for bricks. Our government will not pay attention to this issue until the people stand on their hind legs.
  65. augur
    -1
    April 18 2013 19: 55
    Why are we all, like that ostrich, always hiding our heads in the sand? Everyone has gone crazy with this tolerance, why are we all in Russia always afraid of inadvertently offending everyone, especially Muslims. So we divide them into ours, home-grown, our own-correct and alien Varangians, so there are no ours and yours, there are just Muslims! They have already destroyed Europe, they forbid celebrating Christmas, putting up Christmas trees in European cities, they are for the most part parasites on the body of civilization, they don’t want to work, why, it’s easier for them to give birth to children and live on benefits, but they always demand, demand, demand They demand mosques, demand that hijabs be allowed in schools, and seize lands without permission. They are not afraid to violate our customs, they insult our women. Is it really true that when you see them crossing the line, your fists did not clench and your teeth did not grind? We all see how over the past few years, almost the entire Caucasus has moved to Moscow, apparently to construction sites, laboratories, workshops, or maybe the village is being raised? And emigrants from Asia, they don’t even consider it necessary to learn Russian, but they easily decide to slaughter a sheep on the street or pray to block the street.
    Why do we, when we come to a Muslim country, know that we cannot drink alcohol, allow our women to wear open clothes, and try to observe their customs?
    I’m not even talking about the destruction of churches and insults to Christians.
    Sooner or later, whether we like it or not, confrontation is inevitable, God forbid I make a mistake!
    Somehow I wrote everything chaotically, it hurt
    R.S. Anticipating the disadvantages, I want to say right away that I’m not a nationalist, not a skinhead, not the same age and had a Soviet upbringing
    1. Waterfall
      0
      April 18 2013 20: 00
      For this you would be properly closed at 282. Don't rock the boat.
      1. +1
        April 19 2013 00: 11
        Quote: Wasserfall
        For this you would be properly closed at 282. Don't rock the boat.

        Did you address this to the augur? Did I understand correctly? I don’t know what this article is, I don’t have time to be interested. But what rocks the boat is not people expressing their position, but grabbers in armchairs covering up the chaos going on in Russia.
        You'd have to be deaf and blind to think otherwise.
    2. big banzai
      0
      April 18 2013 23: 28
      Quote: Augur
      Why are we all like that ostrich, always hiding our heads in the sand?

      Well, it's time to get up!!! The powerlessness of a few creates the powerlessness of millions!!! and first start calling everything by its proper name!!!! You Augur wrote everything correctly, we have had enough of tolerance and tolerance, we must have our own rules on our land! exactly the same as in Iran, or in any other Islamic country!!! There, for example, Christians do not behave the same way as Muslims behave here, and this is a fact!!!
      1. Rrv
        Rrv
        0
        April 19 2013 00: 27
        There is no point in reducing the conflict to the religious sphere, especially since the issue in this case is not at all about religion as such - it is about friend-or-foe orientation, the criteria of which are carried by any religion, plus the racial-national aspect, plus the work of “well-wishers.” And as a result, we have what we have.
  66. +2
    April 18 2013 20: 00
    Reading some of the commentators, I laughed. Funny. It turns out I should be aggressive, think about how to kill my close friend as soon as possible, because he is unfaithful, etc.
    I am a Muslim of TRADITIONAL ISLAM, I condemn the hijab, because our Kazakh women have never, in our history, worn a hijab, there has never been such a thing. I condemn various currents of Islam that are aggressive in nature and call for jihad. I condemn young Kazakhs who studied in madrassas in foreign countries, grew beards and wore specific clothes, who consider themselves true believers.
  67. rinat1955
    0
    April 18 2013 20: 13
    Comrade Augur, do you somehow get information other than TV?
    Maybe you will look less at Europe, and take a closer look at your Muslim neighbors? I am a Muscovite, I went to my homeland, to the outback of Tatarstan, and so, there is a striking contrast of fields overgrown with trees, burnt forests, the Vladimir region and even the sides of the federal highways of Chuvashia and Tatarstan planted with wheat. They can’t work... Tajik janitors did something that never happened under Soviet rule. No Russian janitor will work like that. Look the facts in the eye. He rapes his women... and there’s no need to wear a skirt shorter than panties and wander around alone at night. At least decent girls don't act like that. They slaughter sheep on the street... the only case when a certain “Gazelka” organized the killing of sheep near the complex in Otradnoye turned out to be a Jewish provocation, the mufti was chasing after them, losing his slippers.
    Are these women, these little pussies, that they desecrated the temple, that they are musicians? Look at their faces, Jews.
    Having children and living on benefits... where are you even from? Do you know the amount of child benefit? What about two? How about five?
    Do you even know that there are more synagogues in Tehran than in Moscow?
    Are you not a provocateur at all? Judging by a bunch of chaotic posts, the comrade is not ours, not from the Russian Federation
    1. augur
      +2
      April 19 2013 04: 36
      rinat1955

      Where should I look, I see what’s going on there, I see what degradation the Europeans have reached and I don’t want the same thing to happen in my country!
      And why do you always cite Tajik janitors as an example, why don’t they work in their country, don’t make it prosperous and rich, and flee from their countries like rats from a ship? Or is there not enough education and mental development for more?

      I wrote about women that you insult, not rape, there is no need to distort. And again, teach us what to wear and how to wear it. I also don’t particularly like the appearance of your women, especially those who sit on the asphalt with grimy people all day long, begging on the pavement, so your women are well off, but I don’t do it to them contemptuous remarks and insulting suggestions.

      “These women, little pussies, who desecrated the temple,” to us, that they had to be strung up on the rack, they got theirs, we are not bloodthirsty, we don’t stone them to death.
      Well, here they wrote about a boy whose head was cut off because he refused to remove the cross, I don’t remember when Christians did this to Muslims, but many remember about the atrocities of Muslims in the Second World War!

      You even call us infidels, but who told you that you are the true believers, do we call you filthy or something else?
  68. rinat1955
    -2
    April 18 2013 20: 26
    Take for example the episode with the pussies, the Satanists did their dance, their Orthodox male guards tied them up and handed them over to the cops... Are you a Christian? They committed sacrilege in front of your eyes, and you have an ass pressed, pressed down in the corner, are you afraid of prison?! Aren't you afraid of God?
    And the cops to whom they handed over the creatures... that we don’t know how to do anything, we don’t know anything, we’re also squeezing?! What's wrong?! Orthodox?!
    And now this one is sitting... as I understand it, they don’t really touch her.
    You have become cowardly, Christians.
    Remember the dispatcher who caused the plane with the children to crash? The Dagestani father of the dead children went and killed the smart-ass Caucasian, and was not afraid to go to prison. It is about him that people’s memory will remain. But about the temple guards - no.
    1. +1
      April 18 2013 22: 45
      Quote: rinat1955
      the Satanists did their dance, their Orthodox male guards tied them up and handed them over to the cops..

      I think the security there was purchased, they acted too lazily. But the vigilant old women simply did not let them into the Sretensky Monastery. So our head is not in the sand.
      And who killed the priest Daniil Sysoev? A native of Dagestan, motivated by religious hatred. So it's better to have your head in the sand than your hands in blood.
    2. +1
      April 19 2013 09: 34
      Quote: rinat1955
      They committed sacrilege in front of your eyes, and you have an ass pressed, pressed down in the corner, are you afraid of prison?! Aren't you afraid of God?

      Another provocation. So, to strangle a person, even a bad one, is to fear God?
      Where did you read this from? I'm afraid to even imagine.
      Have you heard anything about the Ten Commandments?
      Quote: rinat1955
      You have become cowardly, Christians.

      First a provocation, then an insult. Is this the position of a true Muslim? Don't dishonor your brothers. You once again confirm the rightness of those who are tired of the chaos perpetrated by people like you.
  69. rinat1955
    0
    April 18 2013 20: 36
    And also on the topic of temples.... Pray to your God that the idea of ​​organizing underground mosques does not become a driving force among Muslims in Moscow. No FSB will know who and what will teach there. They'll teach you this, and then you'll wash yourself off. In a normal regular mosque, with an approved curriculum, you can raise your own muftis, and not receive unknown things from the Saudis.
    Look, a 28-year-old young man became the mufti of Tatarstan. As far as I understand, there were no more worthy ones.
    Don’t you see that they are trying to tear the Volga and Urals regions away from Russia?
    And the trick with the police operation to restore constitutional order will no longer work there... the PLA is too close, the flight time of their cruise missiles is too short. Too many Muslim military personnel are trained in the law enforcement agencies of the Russian Federation. Take your head out of the sand.
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 22: 49
      Quote: rinat1955
      Pray to your God that the idea of ​​organizing underground mosques does not become a driving force among Muslims in Moscow.

      Don’t worry about us, we survived the Red Terror, collectivization, and the Gulag. So we will survive the bearded Asians.
    2. big banzai
      +1
      April 19 2013 02: 59
      Pray to your God that we don’t get tired of your underground activities, and that our patience with your antics doesn’t run out!!! threats cannot intimidate us, after all, the Russian people are warlike (although they have begun to forget this now) people, otherwise there would not be on the map a country that occupies 1/6 of the land, a country that defeated fascism, etc. and we will defeat you if necessary!
    3. +4
      April 19 2013 09: 37
      Quote: rinat1955
      And also on the topic of temples.... Pray to your God that the idea of ​​organizing underground mosques does not become a driving force among Muslims in Moscow.

      With every phrase you draw a dividing line between Christians and Muslims. And then we look innocently and with childish surprise: “why? What did we do? We’re so good.”

      I do not confuse you and others like you with all Muslims. I really enjoyed reading the expressions of a couple of people who, as I understood it, professed Islam. But why are there so few of you, good people?
  70. rinat1955
    -1
    April 18 2013 20: 42
    Yes, and to the heap, my brother suggests, you google (not in Yandex, but in theirs) the name of Moscow in Scandinavian languages, which in the sense means, not in modern languages, but... 200-300 years ago. Everything there is consonant with the phrase “city of mosques”
    1. +4
      April 18 2013 21: 32
      Quote: rinat1955
      the name of Moscow in Scandinavian languages, which means, not in modern languages, but so... 200-300 years ago.

      My dear friend...
      Moscow got its name from the river on the banks of which it was founded.
      The words Mos-kva, Pro-tva, Sos-va, O-ka have Finnish-Ugric roots. The word joki is based on river.
      River names with root letters today - Slavic names of rivers: Dnieper, Dniester, Dvina, Don...
      1. rinat1955
        0
        April 19 2013 12: 16
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        Quote: rinat1955
        the name of Moscow in Scandinavian languages, which means, not in modern languages, but so... 200-300 years ago.

        My dear friend...
        Moscow got its name from the river on the banks of which it was founded.
        The words Mos-kva, Pro-tva, Sos-va, O-ka have Finnish-Ugric roots. The word joki is based on river.
        River names with root letters today - Slavic names of rivers: Dnieper, Dniester, Dvina, Don...


        The reading you propose is one of many, close to the spirit of the Romanov (there were such kings) historians, but in Europe there is a slightly different reading... who is right there is difficult to understand, the primary sources were destroyed by the Romanov dynasty.
        1. +4
          April 19 2013 21: 34
          Quote: rinat1955
          It is difficult to understand who is right there; the primary sources were destroyed by the Romanov dynasty.

          Wow...
          Cool how...
          Etymology does not imply the influence of any historians.
          Otherwise, the word rinat can be tied to rinofluimicin.
          But.
          If you are a fan of pseudo-historians Nosovsky and Fomenko who joined him...
          lol
    2. +3
      April 18 2013 22: 03
      Quote: rinat1955
      and so... 200-300 years ago.

      Moscow is more than 850 years old. What are you about?
    3. +3
      April 19 2013 09: 39
      rinat1955, I thought 1955 was the year of birth...
    4. +5
      April 20 2013 01: 42
      Quote: rinat1955
      brother suggests... Everything there is consonant with the phrase “city of mosques”

      If your brother tries to refer to an English word mosque, mosque in Russian, I can disappoint you - the English language is “artificial”, obtained as a result of mixing the languages ​​of the Britons, Angles, Celts, and Picts. But the main influence was the spread of the Scandinavian Vikings. And on both sides. William the Conqueror, a "Frenchized" descendant of the Vikings, brought the Scandinavian-French dialect to the British Isles in 1066 AD. The Scandinavians, based on the Orkney Islands, previously also had a hand in this matter.
      If we take into account that Islam, as a religion, began to march around the world at the end of the 9th century AD, and came to Europe with the Conquest, and then only to the Pyrenees, then there is a GAP between the “city of mosques” and mosque monstrous both in time, and in distance, and in logic.
  71. ed65b
    0
    April 18 2013 21: 02
    And also on the topic of temples.... Pray to your God that the idea of ​​organizing underground mosques does not become a driving force among Muslims in Moscow. No FSB will know who and what will teach there. They'll teach you this, and then you'll wash yourself off. In a normal regular mosque, with an approved curriculum, you can raise your own muftis, and not receive unknown things from the Saudis.

    This is what does not reach the “ardent” Christians.
  72. +1
    April 18 2013 21: 19
    Yes, apparently the Greeks got a lot of crap during 400 years of Turkish domination. And in 1923, all Orthodox Christians were expelled from Asia Minor, and in 1953, 90% of the Greeks were expelled from Constantinople. And here are the mosques...
  73. +6
    April 18 2013 21: 52
    Quote: rinat1955
    And also on the topic of temples.... Pray to your God that the idea of ​​organizing underground mosques does not become a driving force among Muslims in Moscow. No FSB will know who and what will teach there. They'll teach you this stuff, but then you'll wash yourself off

    Well, if I were you, I would also say prayers about this. As I understand it, you don’t consider yourself a Wahhabi?! So you, just like Christians, will be in trouble if anything goes wrong. In general, let's be more careful in our expressions, that's all. About cowardice here it started... Thus, anyone can be accused of cowardice, even the same Muslims - how did WAHABISM even allow this to happen, did they hide? For every example there will be an opposite one. Who needs this? We need to respect each other!
    What kind of childish calls are these? Let Muslims figure it out for themselves! Do Muslims in Russia live in a separate state?
    Now why should traditional Islam be supported in Russia (once again for the especially gifted - Orthodoxy should be supported to the same extent)!
    In Arabic, the word JIHAD generally means zeal in something..., the fight against spiritual and social vices. This is generally a broad concept. By the way, the concept of military jihid is generally rejected by many Muslim authors! I won’t write what GAZAVAT is today, okay? Tired. So I’m tired of this substitution of concepts. A terrorist who blew up innocent people will not go to heaven and he will not see virgins, and lovers who have preserved their love despite anything and accepted death for it can also be martyrs! Am I right, Muslim brothers?
    So, Wahhabism is a sect in Sunni Islam! ... strict adherence to all Sharia norms, oppose any entertainment and luxury and advocate the introduction of an equalizing social system! In general, these are the “revolutionaries in Islam.” But the main feature of Wahhabism is aggressive radicalism, not so much towards non-Muslims as towards traditional Muslims, who are left with only two ways out of the current situation - become Wahhabis or die!
    Since the middle, if I am not mistaken, of the 18th century, Wahhabis have been pursuing a reactionary policy in the Arabian Peninsula in relation to traditional Muslims... Currently they are the basis of extremist Islamic fundamentalism. In Algeria and Egypt, thousands of traditional Muslims opposing the Wahhabis were killed, and entire villages were massacred in Algeria.
    That is why traditional Islam in Russia should feel supported in the state and society, unless of course tomorrow, gentlemen Christians and traditional Muslim Russians, you are not going to run away in different directions!
    1. 0
      April 19 2013 09: 40
      Quote: Oper
      Well, if I were you, I would also say prayers about this. As I understand it, you don’t consider yourself a Wahhabi?! So you, just like Christians, will be in trouble if anything goes wrong. In general, let's be more careful in our expressions, that's all. The cowardice thing started here...

      Opera, I'm glad that you understood who is who.
  74. big banzai
    0
    April 18 2013 22: 18
    Quote: ed65b
    I can give you an example of all Christian sects of a totalitarian orientation

    Well, comrade))))))) how can there be a sect, and even a Christian one, and even more so with a totalitarian orientation!!! Sect from Greek. a sector or part separated from the general whole, and in connection with this the sect cannot be considered Christianity or Christian, since it has fallen away from the whole and does not have the fullness and integrity in itself, in this case the fullness of Christianity, for this they use the term “pseudo-Christian”, secondly, Christianity has never been totalitarian, this sect can be totalitarian but not Christianity (since the basis of Christianity is freedom of choice, free will and love), and to mix into one concepts that you mix in one sentence and which are essentially not comparable as trying to prove that Adam had a belly button laughing
    1. 0
      April 19 2013 10: 03
      Quote: big-banzai
      How can there be a sect, and even a Christian one, and even more so of a totalitarian orientation?

      This is not the point. ed65b puts an extremist religious movement and a totalitarian sect on the same shelf. Sorry, ed65b, but this is not a big deal.
      1. ed65b
        0
        April 22 2013 19: 24
        You should watch your tongue, smart guy.
        How do you like the Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, everyone has the Bible and the Gospel in their hands.
        1. big banzai
          0
          April 23 2013 00: 18
          Quote: ed65b
          How do you like the Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, everyone has the Bible and the Gospel in their hands.


          The Bible says, “As the Father sent Me, so I send you” (John 20:21). “Therefore you are no longer strangers and aliens, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Eph. 2:19-20). Based on these words of Scripture, the chain of apostolic SUCCESSION of our Church is built in accordance with the words of Tertullian: “if the Lord Jesus Christ sent the apostles to preach, one CANNOT RECOGNIZE other preachers except those appointed by Christ, for no one knows the Father except the Son and the one to whom the Son has revealed (Matthew 11:27); but the Son, it seems, did not reveal it to anyone except the apostles, and sent them to preach exactly what He had revealed to them. And what they preached (precisely what Christ revealed to them) must be proven no other way than through those Churches that the apostles themselves founded (and Jehovah's Witnesses and the Marmons, respectively, were not founded by the apostles), when they preached, as they say, both by the living word and subsequently through epistles. If this is so, then it is clear that any the teaching unanimous with these apostolic Churches must be considered true; it undoubtedly contains what the Churches received from the apostles, the apostles from Christ, and Christ from God. All other teachings must be considered FALSE, for they are contrary to the truth of the Church, the Apostolic , Christ and God: this is the testimony of the truth" ... We, Orthodox Christians, have communion with the apostolic churches and the Russian Orthodox Church was founded by the Church of Constantinople (and until 1448 the Russian Church was part of the Patriarchate of Constantinople), In turn, the Church of Constantinople was founded by the Apostle Andrew First-Called!!! Thus, the Russian Church inherited from the Church of Constantinople by right of succession, and we have no difference in teaching (Dogmatics) or anything else! Moreover, the Russian Orthodox Church maintains the continuity recorded in its chronicles!!! And the Marmons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others you cited do not have communion with the Apostolic Church, they were not founded by the apostles and are not even the heirs and successors of those churches that were founded by the apostles (as a rule, these sects appeared in the 18-19 centuries in America, they use the Bible and the Gospel (but as a rule rewritten to suit their own dogma, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses), but they themselves have no relation either to the Apostolic Churches or to the writing of the Bible and Gospel and therefore are rightfully called “PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN SECTS”!
  75. big banzai
    +2
    April 18 2013 22: 29
    Quote: Bekzat
    Reading some of the commentators, I laughed. Funny. It turns out I should be aggressive, think about how to kill my close friend as soon as possible, because he is unfaithful, etc.
    I am a Muslim of TRADITIONAL ISLAM, I condemn the hijab, because our Kazakh women have never, in our history, worn a hijab, there has never been such a thing. I condemn various currents of Islam that are aggressive in nature and call for jihad. I condemn young Kazakhs who studied in madrassas in foreign countries, grew beards and wore specific clothes, who consider themselves true believers.


    Unfortunately, there are only a few people like you Bekzat, and you are like an endangered species!!! but thank God that you exist and that you are not radical! Peace and all blessings to you!
    1. +1
      April 19 2013 10: 24
      For Elijah, thank you, and I wish the same to you. But believe me, there are not a few people like me; most Muslims are like me. At least in Kazakhstan. Peace to you dear!!!
  76. big banzai
    +2
    April 18 2013 23: 11
    Quote: rinat1955
    Take for example the episode with the pussies, the Satanists did their dance, their Orthodox male guards tied them up and handed them over to the cops... Are you a Christian? They committed sacrilege in front of your eyes, and you have an ass pressed, pressed down in the corner, are you afraid of prison?! Aren't you afraid of God?
    And the cops to whom they handed over the creatures... that we don’t know how to do anything, we don’t know anything, we’re also squeezing?! What's wrong?! Orthodox?!
    And now this one is sitting... as I understand it, they don’t really touch her.
    You have become cowardly, Christians.
    Remember the dispatcher who caused the plane with the children to crash? The Dagestani father of the dead children went and killed the smart-ass Caucasian, and was not afraid to go to prison. It is about him that people’s memory will remain. But about the temple guards - no.


    Dear Rinat
    This is where we differ from you, Christianity is kindness, tolerance and forgiveness!!! Yes, exactly forgiveness, we can forgive a lot but not EVERYTHING! we can forgive the dancing of brainless girls in our main Temple, But it is very, very, very difficult for us to forgive the desecration and destruction of churches in Serbia, the murder of priests, violence against our women and all Christians around the world!!! Believe me, it is very difficult to forgive such things, but nevertheless, an Orthodox person, reading the morning rule, must say a prayer to the Lord with forgiveness from God to forgive all his enemies who persecute him (the Christian) and oppress him and kill him, i.e. in fact, a Christian prays for his enemies so that the Lord will forgive them for their atrocities!!! We have this written in the Bible: Matthew 5:44-48: 44. But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who use you and persecute you, 45. that you may be sons of your Father in heaven, for He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. 46. ​​For if you love those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't publicans do the same? 47. And if you greet only your brothers, what special thing do you do? Don't the pagans do the same? 48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    Quote: rinat1955
    why not allow collective prayer in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow, on Kurban Bayram (in the fall)


    Well then soooo!!! Okay, then why not sell pancakes with pork for Easter in the Cathedral Mosques of Tatarstan and Chechnya, and what about Mecca and Medina (in the fall) for Easter??? For some reason, you Rinat and all Muslims carefully avoid this possibility of using Muslim temples for the purpose of religious reconciliation. There will be no loss to the Mosque and no imams or Muslims. oh yes: Christians go to church wearing shoes, this doesn’t mean that they don’t respect God, Christians go to church not to justify themselves by visiting church (and thereby elevate themselves), but to correct themselves, work on themselves and to please God and our Lord God looks first of all at this desire to please Him and only then whether the Christian washed his feet and hands or not!!!
    1. 0
      April 18 2013 23: 25
      Quote: big-banzai
      The Lord God looks first of all at this desire to please Him, and only then at whether the Christian washed his feet and hands or not!!!

      Taking off shoes seems to be something particularly important. Remember how Christ spoke about the Jews, who considered it very important to supervise the washing of cauldrons and benches. “They strain out the mosquito, but let the camel through.”
      1. big banzai
        0
        April 18 2013 23: 38
        Brother !
        There is a huge gap between our beliefs! In Christianity, our Lord God Jesus Christ himself washed the feet of his disciples, showing his humility, and here the emphasis comes down precisely to humility and not to the cleanliness of the feet that the Lord created!!! This is the essence of Christianity, that the Lord himself humiliated himself before his disciples, and did not exalt himself by making himself the ruler of the world (which the Jews expected from him), he showed us the greatest example of humility and virtue! The Lord did not destroy Judas for betrayal, but boldly endured martyrdom on the cross, and this is an even greater example of humility and pleasing to God! We (Orthodox) do not cut off heads for non-acceptance of Christianity by a Muslim, but not vice versa!
  77. EXA-2
    0
    April 19 2013 06: 58
    How can you argue without knowing the primary sources? How can one say that this faith is better than another? Read the Bible and Koran. These books have a lot in common. And there are plenty of freaks and nationalists in every faith.
  78. rinat1955
    +1
    April 19 2013 12: 04
    For some reason, the discussion about the mosqueization of Europe (and the Russian Federation in particular) smoothly crawled towards religious studies.
    On the theme of pancakes with pork. You type Kul ShariF in the cards. Then look a little higher, a kilometer from the main mosque of Kazan, there is the main Orthodox church of Kazan, there are just heaps of these pancakes with pork, probably, by the way, the faithful Kazan residents do not protest against the ringing of bells (as some do against the adhan).
    Are you aware that in Kazan, during the time of the frenzy of pussies, there was a demonstration against the dominance of Muslims?!
    There were about thirty idiots, they were tied up instantly, but the fact itself!
    And on the topic of the wave of Islam at the present time, everything is taking over, etc.
    And the wave of Christianity to the east (Kazan was taken, Astrakhan was taken, Shpak was not taken) was there bare land, were there pagans? Have you heard about the Kazan Khanate? Have you heard about the Siberian Khanate? Have you heard about the Crimean Khanate (I’m not even talking about Shamil’s imamate)?... And the Catholics in America, what were they doing with their preachers?
    And when the answer came, you were offended.
    Multiply, Orthodox Christians, become more energetic and all the questions will disappear. Eat less, wear worse rags, change cars less often, but give birth to children of three and above. If you don't reproduce, you'll die out! Or the PLA will help you. An interesting point: all the attention is on Islam, but what will happen to us in 10-20 years, if the PRC continues to increase its military power at such a pace, all the media, for some reason, are keeping silent.
    We have a military review here... you look at the prospects for our nuclear shield, at the warranty periods of our missiles on combat duty, look for information about plutonium reserves in the Russian Federation (where did it go, there were a lot) in general about uranium deposits in within the Russian Federation.
    No matter how quickly most of those present had to remember their VUS, after 8-10 years.
    1. big banzai
      0
      April 22 2013 20: 17
      Quote: rinat1955
      And the wave of Christianity to the east (Kazan was taken, Astrakhan was taken, Shpak was not taken) was there bare land, were there pagans? Have you heard about the Kazan Khanate? Have you heard about the Siberian Khanate? Have you heard about the Crimean Khanate (I’m not even talking about Shamil’s imamate)?


      And the wave of Islam??? What about the Arab Caliphate, the Ottoman Empire? and you have heard about Byzantium, and about Syria, Iran, Transcaucasia, Palestine, Armenia, Serbia, etc. ? or do you think there was “bare earth” there???
  79. rinat1955
    -1
    April 19 2013 12: 24
    And on the topic of forgiveness in Christianity (like you can’t touch pussies, they must be forgiven)... the ardent Christian Ivan the Terrible, who committed such genocide in the Kazan Khanate, is still remembered. And you also know about the remnants of the Golden Horde (present-day Astrakhan) ... you talk to the Kalmyks, they will tell you a lot of things.
    By the way, how does Orthodoxy relate to Judaism? And how many representatives of the supreme clergy in the Russian Federation have Jewish roots. You inquire, inquire...
  80. big banzai
    +1
    April 19 2013 17: 16
    Quote: rinat1955
    And on the topic of forgiveness in Christianity (like you can’t touch pussies, they must be forgiven)... the ardent Christian Ivan the Terrible, who committed such genocide in the Kazan Khanate, is still remembered. And you also know about the remnants of the Golden Horde (present-day Astrakhan) ... you talk to the Kalmyks, they will tell you a lot of things.
    By the way, how does Orthodoxy relate to Judaism? And how many representatives of the supreme clergy in the Russian Federation have Jewish roots. You inquire, inquire...


    You, dear one, look at your clergy (every third, or even second, is like a carbon copy of a trained orientalist, a la “Saudi”, with a head washed with radical ideas), and we will deal with our clergy ourselves, okay? By the way, Christianity has nothing to do with Judaism, these are different religions! The Jews are the people of the Book, the Lord chose this people as God’s chosen people for the manifestation through the Holy Spirit of His hypostasis of our Lord Jesus Christ. But the Jews did not accept Christ as the Messiah or Messiah and crucified him, instead of receiving the opportunity of salvation from the Lord, through the New Testament (*Covenant in this case is an agreement between man and God) through the Sacrament of Holy Baptism and only that way! Nobody drove the Jews away from this, they themselves abandoned it, moreover, no one is stopping them from doing this now (just like the Muslims). Therefore, we look at them as lost souls who do not see the possibility of salvation! But we pray for them that the Lord will grant the truth into their hearts and they will accept the Savior’s atoning sacrifice and are sure that this will happen soon! As for Ivan the Terrible, we do not claim that he is a saint; you know, there were many tyrants in the history of Russia, just like in any other state or country! If such a song has already started, then we can consider the biography of the great prophet!!! Why not? Ivan the Terrible is possible, but not the prophet? I think there will be a lot of interesting facts that Muslims do not like to bring up, taking advantage of the opportunity of Taqiyya - In your country this is not forbidden, but on the contrary, it is encouraged: “And they were cunning, and Allah was cunning, and Allah is the best of all cunning people” (3: 47 (54?)), “And I plan a cunning” (86: 16), “My cunning is strong” (7: 182), “My plot is strong” (68: 45)." Based on the above links, even your god can lie (for any cunning is based on one form or another and degree of lies). Yes, of course, your preachers immediately point to the rule of “mushakala”, well, to justify! And then Al-Tabari and Al-Ghazali write “Lying is a sin, but not when it serves for the benefit of a Muslim." (839-923) "Know that lying is not shameful in itself. It is permitted if this is the only way to achieve a good result." (1059-1111)!!! Finally, I will quote the Gospel of John 8:42-47: "42. Jesus said to them: If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I proceeded from God and came; for I did not come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you cannot hear My words. 44. Your father is the devil; and you want to do the lusts of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and did not stand in the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks his own way, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46. ​​Which of you will convict Me of unrighteousness? If I speak the truth, why don't you believe Me? 47. He who is from God listens to the words of God. The reason you don't listen is because you are not from God."
  81. 0
    April 19 2013 19: 59
    The kidnapping of Europe! The Romans also thought that the Germans were not serious and would not last long! By the way, they also imported them in batches for unskilled workers...
  82. Kostya pedestrian
    0
    April 20 2013 17: 30
    Europe is rich in ideas - besides, they, the INDO-EUROPEANS, have a very developed self-preservation complex (at our expense) - all their Indo-European problems were solved by the Crusades and the Germo-Prussians.


    It’s time, Comrades, to give Christ citizenship of the USSR, and to establish a Counter-Christ campaign in Europe, and to distribute all positions to individuals loyal to us - the wars of the “Son of God’s Command”.

    In general, Merkel should think about the Germans; and not suck the eternal Greek crisis.


    PS: It’s funny, but they say that their Hercules was..., well, you understand - so it’s not surprising that they have rainbow rule in all parts and connections. Some kind of hazing relationship?



  83. abdul0686
    0
    April 20 2013 18: 38
    Uncle, can you explain to me how 3=1 and prove it. Without evidence, a lot of things can be written...
    I have many questions for you.
    Who do you understand as the Creator?
    What qualities should a Creator have?
  84. rinat1955
    0
    April 21 2013 12: 33
    It’s cool, of course, to compare your tyrant Ivan the Terrible with the prophet Mummamed... Uncle Vanya will have a lot of honor.
    You avoided answering how many Jews lead you religiously, brothers in Christ of Russian nationality?
    You constantly get involved in religious debates, I’m not good at this, maybe comrade abdul0686 will become your interlocutor in this.
    Actually, I proposed the option of anti-mosqueization of Moscow, the use of Orthodox churches, at least on major Muslim holidays, for collective prayers of the faithful.
    What is bad about this, from the point of view of a true Orthodox, Russian person, I would like to hear serious arguments that would convince me that this is not good... it will lead to this and that.
    1. big banzai
      0
      April 22 2013 19: 51
      Quote: rinat1955
      how many Jews guide you religiously

      Dear, you ask strange questions! firstly, Jews (Christians or, in this context, the flock) do not lead us, but among our clergy (i.e. priests, archpriests, bishops, metropolitans, and so on, i.e. those who accepted Christianity and dedicated their lives to serving the Lord) there are clergy of Jewish nationality, but they are Christians, just like the Holy Apostles and Jesus Christ himself were Jews by birth but were Christians!

      Quote: rinat1955
      Actually, I proposed the option of anti-mosqueization of Moscow, the use of Orthodox churches, at least on major Muslim holidays, for collective prayers of the faithful. What is bad about this, from the point of view of a true Orthodox, Russian person, I would like to hear serious arguments that would convince me that this is not good... it will lead to this and that.


      I think I already explained it to you, but it’s like you don’t read my posts and don’t see the answers! But in vain! I think that what is needed here is not anti-mosquetization, but anti-radicalization and a change in migration legislation and a clearly structured national policy!!! But I will answer your question, in my usual manner, with a counter question (may the Muslims forgive me), so that you will understand the seriousness of my arguments in the belief that this is NOT good! SO THE QUESTION: What is the sacrifice of PORK (and its subsequent consumption) during Hajj in the center of Masjid al-Haram not far from the Kaaba (for those who do not know, this is the main and largest mosque in the world, in the center of which is the Kaaba or al-Bayt al -Haram (sacred house) cubic shaped building)??? If you are not strong in religious debates or find it difficult to answer this question, then contact comrade abdul0686 for an answer! and I hope he can convince you that this is not good and what it will lead to! Sincerely!!!
  85. Rinatgoi
    0
    April 21 2013 12: 47
    If Europeans are financially prosperous, they have degenerated spiritually. Most monasteries are just monuments and have not been used for a long time. + some cathedrals are sold at auctions, Muslims buy these buildings and then turn them into mosques.
  86. rinat1955
    0
    April 21 2013 17: 16
    Excellent idea Rinatgoi, buy the Perervinsky monastery, I live nearby, I see that Naru rarely goes there, on the outskirts, there are no residential buildings, there are almost no nearby (1 house) from the train 10 minutes on foot. Looks like a Central Asian religious complex (even the domes are blue). It’s 10 minutes to Tsaritsino (a Moscow enclave of Caucasian Muslims) on the same train. The Lublin enclave of the Volga Bulgars is 3 minutes by train.
    Fits... let's take it. waiting for the control center
    1. 0
      April 22 2013 09: 57
      Quote: rinat1955
      Excellent idea Rinatgoi, buy the Perervinsky monastery, I live nearby, I see that Naru rarely goes there, on the outskirts, there are no residential buildings, there are almost no nearby (1 house) from the train 10 minutes on foot. Looks like a Central Asian religious complex (even the domes are blue). It’s 10 minutes to Tsaritsino (a Moscow enclave of Caucasian Muslims) on the same train. The Lublin enclave of the Volga Bulgars is 3 minutes by train.

      rinat1955, don't push. No one falls for your cheap provocations.
      Oops, the bubble burst. Registered just to dirty things up on the forum.
      A worthy representative...
  87. 0
    April 22 2013 12: 51
    Religion is poison. I speak like a Kazakh.
  88. 0
    April 22 2013 13: 43
    Quote: Mangust_ali
    The first two, please. The latter did not fight for the Russian Federation / USSR.

    Study history. Among the Chechens there are 6 Heroes of the USSR, 3 divisions and a sapper brigade were formed on the territory of the Chechen-Ingush SSR, more than 12000 people joined the Red Army voluntarily, among the defenders of the Brest Fortress there were 17 Chechens.
    1. rinat1955
      +2
      April 22 2013 16: 50
      On the topic of the Brest Fortress, when the Belarusian film came out, I studied this question a little... You know that in May 1941, conscripts arrived to replenish the garrison of the fortress, three echelons, all from Ingushetia.
      This issue was even covered by GDP. Almost all the guys died. But they did not lose the honor of their people. And in the film there are only Slavs running around.... there is not enough evil
  89. rinat1955
    0
    April 22 2013 16: 47
    Comrade Navodlom, as I understand it, you are not a theologian (just like I am an expert on the norms of Islam). Therefore, let’s be silent and listen to smart people. It cannot be that this conflict is not considered in Christianity and Islam
  90. ed65b
    0
    April 22 2013 19: 27
    Now the same thing is happening to sects that happened during the Roman Empire at the beginning of the era. Then, too, there was an ideological crisis associated with the beginning of the decline of the familiar world (the slow fall of the greatest empire), and therefore a huge number of sects arose. The collapsing social system urgently generated new meanings, selecting a different ideological model to replace the outdated one. The sects multiplied like microbes. And one of the most evil and totalitarian was the Christian sect.
    There is no exaggeration here, since the first Christian circles precisely fell under the definition of totalitarian sects. What in our everyday understanding is a totalitarian sect? This is a small group of aggressive fanatics who leave the world, quit their jobs and socially “pupate”. They often sell their apartments and contribute money to the sectarian common fund. Sometimes sectarians commit group suicides. Such cases are also well known...
  91. ed65b
    -1
    April 22 2013 19: 29
    So, the first Christians of the beginning of the era did all this. They were full of apocalyptic moods, expected the end of the world any day and were incredibly stubborn, like all fanatics. When their neighbors - cheerful and relaxed pagans - were having fun at their holidays, Christians either did not go to these holidays or sat there with gloomy and condemning faces. At the same time, it cost them nothing to ruin people’s mood with some tactless or inappropriate remark.
    Even when Christianity had already spread sufficiently (III century), Christians alienated themselves from society. One of his contemporaries angrily wondered: “Why do they try in every possible way to hide and make secret for others what they honor, when commendable deeds are usually performed openly and only criminal deeds are hidden?... Why do they not dare to speak openly and organize their meetings freely?”
    No wonder Christians were not liked. They don't like everyone who stands out. Jews, for example.
    Why are Jews eternal outcasts? Here, it would seem, is a black man - he’s actually black! However, ordinary Romans treated black blacks better than white Jews. Because the Jews stubbornly refused to assimilate. They fanatically adhered to their completely meaningless (and often simply ridiculous) traditions, rules and restrictions...
    Christians in this sense were even worse than Jews. They despised the pagans and often did not even hide it. And who would like this?... Eternally gloomy, always ready, like birds of prey, to recruit a child from a decent family into their sect. And then this child will be found dead, because the first Christians practiced individual and collective suicide en masse. They hanged themselves, poisoned themselves, jumped off cliffs... Why live and suffer if everyone is going to die anyway?
    Like many sectarians, the first Christians expected the end of the world literally any day: “... there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom” (Matt. 16:28); “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things happen” (Luke 21:32).
    “This generation” is the generation now living. If so, why wait? Why not jump into the abyss, especially since the book of Job directly states: “Man is born to suffer.” And in Ecclesiastes it is written: “And I hated life...for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.” And the Apostle Paul exclaims: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?” And in the next world - heavenly places, that is, complete freebies, and work. No need. To life! More precisely, death. So give me a pill for life.
    Further... Many citizens recruited into the Christian sect sold their houses and estates and contributed money to the new “family”: “... all who owned lands or houses, selling them, brought the price of what was sold and laid them at the feet of the Apostles...” (Acts of the Holy Apostles) .
  92. ed65b
    0
    April 22 2013 19: 29
    Some converts did this in the hope of a quick heavenly freebie, in fact, they bought a ticket to heaven before jumping into the abyss... But others, more down-to-earth, counted on specific earthly benefits that were promised, for example, by the Gospel of Mark: “There is no one who would leave house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My sake and the Gospel, and would not now, in this time, in the midst of persecution, receive a hundred times more houses, and brothers, and sisters, and fathers, and mothers, and children, and lands..."
    Invest, gentlemen, in Lenya Golubkova! “We are sitting, and the money is coming...” You will receive a hundred times more houses and lands! And the kingdom of heaven is attached to the hundredfold percent free bonus. Which can be obtained immediately by jumping off a cliff. Which is what many did without waiting for the promised interest.
    The problem with suicide turned out to be so acute that when Christianity came to power, it was necessary to come up with special prohibitions on taking one’s own life, in which the main ideologists - Augustine, nicknamed Blessed, and Thomas Aquinas - succeeded a lot. They replaced the suicidal reserved seat to heaven with a ticket to hell. Otherwise, Christian priests were simply in danger of being left without a flock!
  93. ed65b
    -1
    April 22 2013 19: 31
    We all argue.
  94. big banzai
    0
    April 22 2013 22: 33
    Quote: rinat1955
    And in the film there are only Slavs running around.... there is not enough evil


    The population of the USSR in 1939 was 170.557.093 people.
    The number of irretrievable losses of the USSR Armed Forces in the Second World War - 8.668.400 people
    Overview:
    1. Only the 20 largest nationalities of the USSR in 1939 were taken into account.
    The peoples included in the table (162.883.937 people) cover 95,50% of the population of the USSR in 1939.
    The losses included in the table (8.415.500 people) cover 97,08% of the losses of the USSR Armed Forces in the Second World War.
    2. The Balts, Moldovans-Romanians, Poles are not included in the 20 - due to the movement of borders in 1939.
    3. The Germans are not included in the top 20, you understand why.
    4. There may be errors regarding “Nations of Dagestan”, because I’m not sure what was meant by this in those years.
    5. 1939 and 1941-45 are not the same thing, but, I think, everything is within the statistical error.
    6. Let me remind you that these are the losses of military personnel called up for service. Those. We consider the contribution only to military operations.
    7. There are errors in connection with the German occupation of significant territories of the USSR in the very first months of the war, and as a consequence of the impossibility of full conscription from their territories, i.e. the figures for losses of Ukrainians and Belarusians should be higher.
  95. big banzai
    0
    April 22 2013 22: 36
    Krivosheev. Russia and the USSR in the wars of the 20th century. table 121

    №№ Nationality Number of deaths % in % of total % of deaths
    in the USSR per military personnel population number of military personnel
    1939 USSR on deaths from the total
    1939 military service strength
    this
    nationalities

    1 Russian 99.591.520 5.756.000 58,39% 66,40% 5,78%
    2 Ukrainians 28.111.007 1.377.400 16,48% 15,89% 4,90%
    3 Belarusians 5.275.393 252.900 3,09% 2,92% 4,79%
    4 Uzbeks 4.845.140 117.900 2,84% 1,36% 2,43%
    5 Tatars 4.313.488 187.700 2,53% 2,17% 4,35%
    6 Kazakhs 3.100.949 125.500 1,82% 1,45% 4,05%
    7 Jews 3.028.538 142.500 1,78% 1,64% 4,71%
    8 Azerbaijanis 2.275.678 58.400 1,33% 0,67% 2,57%
    9 Georgians 2.249.636 79.500 1,32% 0,92% 3,53%
    10 Armenians 2.152.860 83.700 1,26% 0,97% 3,89%
    11 Chuvashs 1.369.574 63.300 0,80% 0,73% 4,62%
    12 Tajiks 1.229.170 22.900 0,72% 0.26% 3,37%
    13 Kyrgyz 884.615 26.600 0,51% 0,31% 3,01%
    14 Nationalities
    Dagestan 857.499 11.100 0,50% 0,13% 1,29%
    15 Bashkir 843.648 31.700 0,49% 0,37% 3,76%
    16 Turkmen 812.404 21.300 0,48% 0,25% 2,62%
    17 Udmurts 606.326 23.200 0,36% 0,27% 3,83%
    18 Chechen / Ingush 500.088 2.300 0,29% 0,03% 0,46%
    19 Maritsov 481.587 20.900 0,28% 0,24% 4,34%
    20 Ossetian 354.818 10.700 0,21% 0,12% 3,02%
  96. big banzai
    0
    April 22 2013 22: 42
    Quote: rinat1955
    And in the film there are only Slavs running around.... there is not enough evil


    The military contribution of the peoples of the USSR to the victory over Germany

    http://bey.livejournal.com/188149.html
  97. big banzai
    0
    April 23 2013 00: 24
    Quote: ed65b
    How do you like the Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, everyone has the Bible and the Gospel in their hands.


    The Bible says, “As the Father sent Me, so I send you” (John 20:21). “Therefore you are no longer strangers and aliens, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Eph. 2:19-20). Based on these words of Scripture, the chain of apostolic SUCCESSION of our Church is built in accordance with the words of Tertullian: “if the Lord Jesus Christ sent the apostles to preach, one CANNOT RECOGNIZE other preachers except those appointed by Christ, for no one knows the Father except the Son and the one to whom the Son has revealed (Matthew 11:27); but the Son, it seems, did not reveal it to anyone except the apostles, and sent them to preach exactly what He had revealed to them. And what they preached (precisely what Christ revealed to them) must be proven no other way than through those Churches that the apostles themselves founded (and Jehovah's Witnesses and the Marmons, respectively, were not founded by the apostles), when they preached, as they say, both by the living word and subsequently through epistles. If this is so, then it is clear that any the teaching unanimous with these apostolic Churches must be considered true; it undoubtedly contains what the Churches received from the apostles, the apostles from Christ, and Christ from God. All other teachings must be considered FALSE, for they are contrary to the truth of the Church, the Apostolic , Christ and God: this is the testimony of the truth" ... We, Orthodox Christians, have communion with the apostolic churches and the Russian Orthodox Church was founded by the Church of Constantinople (and until 1448 the Russian Church was part of the Patriarchate of Constantinople), In turn, the Church of Constantinople was founded by the Apostle Andrew First-Called!!! Thus, the Russian Church inherited from the Church of Constantinople by right of succession, and we have no difference in teaching (Dogmatics) or anything else! Moreover, the Russian Orthodox Church maintains the continuity recorded in its chronicles!!! And the Marmons, Jehovah's Witnesses and others you cited do not have communion with the Apostolic Church, they were not founded by the apostles and are not even the heirs and successors of those churches that were founded by the apostles (as a rule, these sects appeared in the 18-19 centuries in America, they use the Bible and the Gospel (but as a rule rewritten to suit their own dogma, such as Jehovah’s Witnesses), but they themselves have no relation either to the Apostolic Churches or to the writing of the Bible and Gospel (just as they have absolutely no right to use these Holy books) and therefore rightly they are called “PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN SECTS”!
  98. rinat1955
    0
    April 23 2013 05: 46
    Comrade big-banzai, so what’s the point of your quote... personally, I didn’t find anything here on the topic of peaceful coexistence of Muslims and Christians in one temple.
    Comrade ed65b, your information on the early Christians is interesting, another question is that today’s Christians are those stubborn fanatics, like before the Moon, in the sense of strength in faith.
    We are waiting for smart thoughts.
  99. ed65b
    0
    April 23 2013 08: 21
    Today, the Orthodox Church has turned into a commercial enterprise, where for free they will not only not serve you, but will also not pay attention to you. Money is at the forefront, pay for health, pay for peace, okay, candles have been a church business since time immemorial, and everything else???? pay all around. Look at the “managers” from the church, Lexuses, geldings, luxury BMWs, drunk driving scandal after scandal. And after that they teach me humility and repentance. And in the 90s, trade in excise goods, cigarettes and alcohol???? Forgot?? All that remains is to sell indulgences and that’s it. There was a huge business project in the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra that had nothing to do with the salvation of the soul and God. just a sign or, if you like, a “roof”.
  100. rinat1955
    0
    April 23 2013 18: 08
    Well, Muslims also have this... Just look, a business project like “Hajj to Mecca” brings the Saudis up to 20 billion dollars a year and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Another question is that among Muslims, everyone gives not according to the tax, but whoever gives as much as he can.