Military Review

Europe in the crescents

327
Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe. "Vesti" they write that mosques are being built in Greece, Spain, Germany. In Ireland, one of the largest Muslim temples is being built - for 64 million euros. Megame-cheek will soon be built in Belgian Liege: with a library, café, shops. Giant cult complex worth 40 million euros will soon replenish Munich. Even the Greek bankrupt government is going to spend a million euros to build the first official mosque in Athens. One after another, minarets grow in Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Spain. What is going on? In essence, nothing new: the same European Islamization.


Greece stands out against the background of other countries for the construction of mosques. Note that in this country a grave economic crisis is rampant; this country needs constant credit injections from the EU; in this country not so long ago, some elections followed others, riots in the cities, young people threw Molotov cocktails at policemen, thieves robbed shops, banks and temples, and some barbarians cut down the remnants of Plato's olive oil - just for firewood.

Islam News, referring to the newspaper "Ethnos", reports that the Athens authorities are going to build one or even two mosques in each area of ​​the city. Fifteen Muslim temples may appear in the capital of Greece at once.

The road to the large-scale construction of mosques is opened by the construction of a central mosque. At a meeting of the city council, the mayor of Athens, Yorgos Kaminis, said: “The creation of a central mosque will make it possible to impose order in the work of the chapels, which now work unofficially, and to build one or two mosques in each city district.”

The mayor also said that this issue was raised by him at a recent meeting with the Minister of Education.

At the construction of the mosque (by the way, the cost of construction is estimated at almost a million euros) insisted living in the Muslim community, numbering more than 300 thousands of members. The construction was opposed by Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, who applied to the State Council with a demand to recognize the law on the construction of a mosque approved by parliament as “completely anti-constitutional and anti-Greek”.

Expert IA "REX", political scientist and historian, candidate historical Lev Vershinin also spoke on the topic of European Islamization. He stopped just at Greece, highlighting a number of features here.

Greece is a very special case, says the historian. According to its Basic Law (Section II, article 3), “the religion that dominates Greece is the religion of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ. The Orthodox Church of Greece, which recognizes Jesus Christ as its head, is inextricably linked in its dogmas with the Great Church of Constantinople and with every other one Church of Christ, unswervingly, as well as they, the holy apostolic and conciliar canons and sacred traditions ", and" The church regime existing in certain areas of the state does not contradict the provisions of the preceding paragraph ”, and, until recently, the construction of“ non-Orthodox and other prayer houses ”was extremely difficult, and in maintenance of mosques (ie the worship buildings with minarets) was forbidden by law. The preamble to the Constitution is short: instead of a series of pompous phrases, only "In the name of the Holy, Unified and Divisible Trinity".

Greek legislation, says Comrade Vershinin, is a unique precedent in the Christian world. It is based on a direct appeal to the Creator in its Eastern Orthodox interpretation. The latter is understood as the core of the unity of the Greek people and their statehood, which corresponds to the worldview of the overwhelming majority of Greeks.

Comparing this fact with information about the construction of a mosque in Athens and the plans of the mayor’s office in the near future to build another dozen more “prayer houses with minarets”, draw conclusions, the historian concludes.

Thus, Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus, who declared about unconstitutional, knew what he was talking about.

Go ahead.

According to "DELFI"referring to “EuropeNews” and the portal Semitsa.ru, the former Kapernaumsky church in Hamburg will be converted into a mosque. In Scotland, the episcopal parish of St. John in Aberdeen became the first in Britain to agree to share their premises with Muslims. They can pray there in church five times a day.

In the Basque town of Portugalete (Spain) 21 March, Muslims opened a mosque. According to statistics, every fourth Basque is against the construction of mosques in his area, and every fifth would not like to have a Muslim neighbor, the data "DELFI". The mosque was open despite protests from local residents,

In Valencia, the Ahmadi community has opened a new mosque 29 in March. The spiritual leader of the community Hazrat Mirza Masrour Ahmad said that, according to his information, in two decades the number of Muslims in Spain will double. There is a possibility that Islam will again dominate the country.

And in tolerant France a mosque was opened for sexual minorities in November last year. There is no separation between men and women. Joint prayers are held in the hall in the Buddhist chapel.

Pavel Svyatenkov (KM.ru) asked a question: how serious is the problem of Islamization? The author singled out two of its factors: the high birth rate, the reinforcing role of Islam in Europe, and the fact that modern Muslim countries are outside European civilization, that is, in fact, are in relation to Europeans in a state of barbarism. The journalist considers barbarism “the use of technologies of civilization against civilization itself without a profound change in its own society”. Some leader buys swords from Rome and then uses them against Rome. Russian people of pre-Peter the Great in Europe were also considered barbarians. China was barbaric during the reign of Mao Zedong. To the current barbaric states, the author referred North Korea. The problem of Islamic states, the journalist notes, is that “they have not yet succeeded in creating an acceptable political model for them - such that people can live in accordance with the Koran, but at the same time in modern society”. As an unpopular example, the author calls Iran, both a modern and an Islamic state at the same time. But in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood came to power, there are big problems: how to manage the country, the lion's share of the income of which is brought by tourism? After all, according to the norms of Islam, women should be wrapped up from head to toe.

According to Comrade Svyatenkov, Muslims should find their own model of building a modern society that will allow them to get out of the state of barbarism, located on the outskirts of European civilization. After all, Islam was not always in a similar condition. The medieval Muslim civilization was higher in level than the European one.

“Europeans should not build Europe with mosques, but help Muslims find themselves and make a civilizational transition. As fertility declines, Muslims will increasingly resemble Europeans. The Muslimization of Europe in the present circumstances does not solve the problem of transition to civilization and, moreover, slows down this transition.

It is on this European experience that the “dear Russians” should also think about, who are also being offered in a massive order to start building huge mosques and importing migrants. Not the construction of mosques and the importation of Muslim citizens of other states, but the creation of conditions for the transition of the world of Islam to modern civilization - this is a real task, the solution of which should be addressed to the “whole world”.


Yes, just add on our own, an extremely atomized, individualized world does not want to engage in solving real problems. To adapt as best as possible, to snatch a piece as much as possible, and after us even the grass does not grow, this is the only task that the current members of European societies have more or less successfully accomplished in a narrow timeframe, starting with their rulers.

As for the "importation of Muslim citizens", then they do not need to be imported. They themselves will come and settle themselves. Regarding Russia about this recently wrote on "VO" wonderful journalist Alexey Volodin.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
327 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 April 18 2013 07: 56
    17
    The issue is not idle and it must be resolved on a state basis and only so ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel April 18 2013 08: 08
      51
      Try to build a temple in Mecca in Saudi Arabia and produce a prayer service in the central square. There will be nothing to bury. Smeared on the pavement. We have minarets with a crescent already erected above the Orthodox churches. Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim fraternity.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled April 18 2013 08: 28
        +6
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.

        the constitution enshrines the right to religious freedom. so at the legislative level most likely will fail. Remember how much noise there was with a ban on wearing a hijab in schools
        1. Strashila
          Strashila April 18 2013 09: 45
          +1
          not only religion is enshrined in the constitution ... but also equality. Those. If you want to build a mosque ... no problem ... but at the beginning, build an Orthodox church, a Catholic cathedral and a synagogue and do not forget about the Buddhist temple.
          1. Strashila
            Strashila April 18 2013 10: 00
            -1
            minus... a wonderful indicator of tolerance and equality of religion !!!!
          2. domokl
            domokl April 18 2013 10: 06
            +3
            Quote: Strashila
            but in the beginning, build an Orthodox church, a Catholic cathedral and a synagogue and do not forget about the Buddhist temple.
            With logic, it’s not very good for you ... But why didn’t the Orthodox build a mosque? Or Catholics or Jews? Each hare wears only his ears and if the Orthodox don’t have money to build churches this is a problem for the Orthodox ...
          3. Dejavu
            Dejavu April 19 2013 03: 57
            +2
            orthodox church, catholic cathedral
            Who will go there? Most of the Muslims are primitive, they said kill the unbeliever and you will go to heaven - approx. And everything is simple and good. Yes, and the Middle Eastern peoples somehow stick together from the beginning, support each other and are not afraid to give birth to children. The European is an individual personality. He has a common sense, the right to education and life blah blah blah ... and the world is competition, you have to drown your neighbor in order to save your life. Most Russians now live with this idea. Whatever "love your neighbor" is, rather "snatch while it lies." Russians become one nation when Hitler comes, or Napoleon or Poles. And so we just walk candles for repose, and that's all our faith. It's a shame.
        2. baron.nn
          baron.nn April 18 2013 12: 28
          +3
          self-propelled: People need to say their word !!! If the men come out and say that we don’t need a mosque, roughly speaking, under the windows, they won’t build ... And with the tacit consent they will build not only a mosque, but also a lot of things ...
          1. Patriot of Russia
            Patriot of Russia April 18 2013 19: 44
            +6
            Quote: baron.nn
            The people need to say their word !!! If the men come out and say that we do not need a mosque, roughly speaking, under the windows, then they will not build ...

            such actions took place in Moscow. the struggle is with varying success. Asian and Caucasian barbarians + police officers against endangered Muscovites Slavs
          2. rereture
            rereture April 18 2013 21: 45
            +3
            The best means of pork carcass or carcass of a pig. In Spain they know.
        3. Maks111
          Maks111 April 19 2013 07: 11
          +1
          the constitution enshrines the right to freedom of religion. so at the legislative level most likely will fail. Remember how much noise there was with a ban on wearing a hijab in schools
          Then you need to change such legislation.
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 09: 18
        +9
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.

        Our lawmakers are also building mosques to the full. So it won’t work out. When the patience of the people bursts, then these built mosques in Russia will be dismantled for bricks. Our government will not pay attention to this issue until the people stand on their hind legs.
        1. domokl
          domokl April 18 2013 10: 10
          12
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Our legislators, too, are building mosques to the fullest. So it will not work.
          Sasha, you distort ... Lawmakers do not build, they just do not know how ... bully But the increase in the number of Muslims in our cities forces us to allow the construction of mosques. Freedom of religion ... The Constitution of the Russian Federation. By the way, Orthodox churches and Catholic churches are being built in our Muslim republics (Kazan, for example)
          In general, babies need to give birth more. Then there will be no problems
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay April 18 2013 11: 33
            0
            Quote: domokl
            Sasha, you distort ... Lawmakers do not build, they just do not know how ... But the increase in the number of Muslims in our cities forces us to build mosques. Religious freedom ... The Constitution of the Russian Federation. By the way, Orthodox churches and Catholic churches are being built in our Muslim republics. cathedrals (Kazan for example)

            The thing is different, not the mosques danger!
            We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!
            Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!
            1. Garrin
              Garrin April 18 2013 12: 25
              0
              Quote: Yarbay
              We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!

              How cannon fodder for Dagestan Wahhabis?
            2. Uncle
              Uncle April 18 2013 12: 51
              +3
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              But how, the people are full, there is not enough space.
              1. Dejavu
                Dejavu April 19 2013 04: 05
                +1
                We have in Blagoveshchensk (Far East), the church is jam-packed. He was replaced by the Episcopate and somehow ceased to make noise that priests in jeeps and people in the Church were stretched to recall the faith of the Fathers. I am happy.
            3. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 13: 48
              +6
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              Hi, Alibek! Believe there are not three grandmothers, there are a lot of people, if you are in Russia, come and see. and as regards Medersa or whatever they are ........ well, we don’t need them!
              1. Bekzat
                Bekzat April 18 2013 18: 27
                +6
                Greetings to all, Alibek correctly said that it is better to build madrassas, and so that they do not have visitors who propagandize Bachabism or something else, but our imams, of a moderate Islamic nature. Our imams in Kazakhstan spoke about this so that the youth’s head wasn’t fooled, that our people didn’t go to Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, but studied in their cities where they live. Thus, the problem of Islamic extremism will be solved.
            4. domokl
              domokl April 18 2013 19: 07
              +2
              Quote: Yarbay
              We need to build schools of medrese and attract the best scientists from around the world!
              There are madrasahs in Muslim regions ... Just like Orthodox seminaries in Christian regions ... They just try to go to study to the sources anyway. And this is far from Russia or even the countries of the former USSR
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 19 2013 08: 40
                +2
                Quote: domokl
                There are madrasahs in Muslim regions ... Just like Orthodox seminaries in Christian regions ... They just try to go to study to the sources anyway. And this is far from Russia or even the countries of the former USSR

                Because study is not up to standard !!
                To create a university where to invite the best scientists from around the world, then they will not seek to leave and study in dubious educational institutions!
            5. YuDDP
              YuDDP April 19 2013 00: 10
              +1
              Quote: Yarbay
              Look in Russian cities there are churches where two three grandmothers go!

              You are mistaken, dear. They go to church much more. And not only grandmothers, but also young boys and girls. Of course, there is no such show as the Muslims. Actually, this is a feature of the Slavs. But this does not mean that all are unbelievers.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 19 2013 08: 49
                +1
                Quote: YuDDP
                You are mistaken, dear. They go to church much more. And not only grandmothers, but also young boys and girls.

                Dear pritenziya not to me !!
                I'm not mistaken!


                see from 3.30
          2. Dejavu
            Dejavu April 19 2013 04: 03
            +3
            About children I completely agree! But for some reason, my friends are not that 2-3 children do not want, but they do not even crave ONE. My wife and I want three, although one is hard, but we will try all the same. :) Russia needs more Russians.
            1. Eric
              Eric April 24 2013 23: 52
              0
              Quote: dejavu
              and one is hard, but still we will try. :) Russia needs more Russians


              Worthy answer!
        2. Maks111
          Maks111 April 19 2013 07: 31
          +2
          Our government will not pay attention to this issue until the people stand on their hind legs.
          Then you need to stand on its hind legs now, while the Slavs remained in this country and until the whole country was built up with mosques. And then we, as usual, while harnessing our horses so it will be too late.
      3. baron.nn
        baron.nn April 18 2013 12: 26
        +2
        Captain Vrungel: Saudi Arabia professes not traditional Islam. As far as I understand, there seems to be a Muslim sect.
      4. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX April 18 2013 16: 19
        0
        I have the right recipe for getting rid of this invasion. As soon as construction begins, or at least a place is chosen, it is necessary to drench this place abundantly with the blood of a freshly cut pig and scatter the remains of the animal throughout the object. Take a detailed picture of the process and distribute the video to the largest possible audience. And just business.
        1. FunkschNNX
          FunkschNNX April 19 2013 11: 27
          0
          "trousers" have already pointed out how many minuses :-) Go ask "Alla to the bar" :-)
      5. Geos-y
        Geos-y April 18 2013 19: 09
        +1
        For some reason, everyone writes that it is necessary to resolve the issue at the legislative level. So everything is decided at the legislative level in favor of the construction of mega-mosques and the Islamization of the state. Moreover, the radicalization of Islamization. It's scary for the children!
      6. 755962
        755962 April 19 2013 11: 22
        +2
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Legislatively must besiege the agility of the Muslim brotherhood.
    2. vadimus
      vadimus April 18 2013 09: 35
      13
      Without war, Europe was eaten. Not by washing, so by skating. While they are discussing gay marriage, .....
      1. ziqzaq
        ziqzaq April 18 2013 14: 40
        +8
        Quote: vadimus
        Without war, Europe ate

        Here on the forum I read about Germany:
        On the bus (in Germany, nowadays) several young people of Arab nationality ride and shamelessly talking to anyone loudly:
        "There are already more than two million of us, soon we will arrange Sharia here as a state law ..."
        The Germans next to the bus ride in silence, listen ... There is a stop, an elderly grandmother gets off the bus and passing by the Arabs stops and turns to them and says:
        "In the 38th year we had more than 6 million Jews, in two years we solved this problem ..."
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 18 2013 16: 57
          +3
          Quote: ziqzaq
          There is a stop, an elderly grandmother gets out of the bus and passing by the Arabs stops and turns to them and says:
          "In the 38th year we had more than 6 million Jews, in two years we solved this problem ..."

          Of course the solution.
          In Yavrop, political correctness is vaccinated from the hospital.
          The trouble is that politically correct "fils" don't care about who will carry out proctological prophylaxis to them.
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic April 18 2013 21: 00
          +5
          Quote: ziqzaq
          On the bus (in Germany, nowadays) several young people of Arab nationality ride and shamelessly talking to anyone loudly:


          While in Germany in 2011, he traveled to Stadbahn with a friend. a mother with a baby was sitting next to her, a company of young people of Arab ethnicity came in (or Pakistani knows hell) and they began to discuss something in their own way, the child woke up and cried, and the mother asked them to politely be modest. almost zero emotions, only condescending smiles .. Then my friend gets up and says this company in a great and mighty sacramental phrase-you !? in = Russian it was said to shut up. Who has hearing problems here? In the ear came into the throat .. The company of these guys 6 people (probably with stray) and us two unarmed scared moved into another car ... The Germans who worked with us said that we had such an outfit that they mistook us for Russian bandits.
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 22: 01
            0
            Quote: Ascetic
            guys 6 people (probably with stray)

            Stray, this is the clitoris.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic April 18 2013 22: 30
              +2
              Quote: Uncle
              Stray, this is the clitoris.


              There are a lot of meanings according to Dahl and slang .. In this case, it means an accessory in the form of any cold steel or firearm
    3. Nevsky
      Nevsky April 18 2013 10: 09
      +7
      And in tolerant France a mosque was opened for sexual minorities in November last year. There is no separation between men and women. Joint prayers are held in the hall in the Buddhist chapel.


      Ept .... bring me back to the 90s wassat
      1. zambo
        zambo April 18 2013 11: 26
        +1
        Ept .... bring me back to the 90s


        ... agree, 19th century ...
    4. vjhbc
      vjhbc April 18 2013 19: 51
      -9
      yes it is necessary at the state level to recognize that Christianity as a religion and its clergy have reached an impasse and pass a law on coercion to convert Russians to Islam to do how Christians did with our original religion to destroy churches icons and crucifixes in rivers
      Quote: svp67
      The issue is not idle and it must be resolved on a state basis and only so.
      1. Dejavu
        Dejavu April 19 2013 04: 24
        +1
        Be careful flawed.
    5. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 April 19 2013 01: 17
      0
      Allah uma mind ....... Well, trash.
  2. domokl
    domokl April 18 2013 08: 00
    +6
    Alas, the Islamization of Europe has long been a fact. The tolerance and needs of the economy forced the Europeans to open the borders for the entry of foreigners, and the most prolific Chinese and Arabs turned out to be the most mobile. Now the time has come to pay for it. Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila April 18 2013 09: 51
      +1
      I wouldn’t mix flies and cutlets ... Tolerance opened the borders, but it was somehow strange and selective (as opposed to the growth of Orthodoxy in Europe) ... and as a result, problems worsened (tell me at what times they were not)
      1. domokl
        domokl April 18 2013 10: 03
        +1
        Quote: Strashila
        olerance opened borders, but it was somehow strange and selective (as opposed to the growth of Orthodoxy in Europe) ... and as a result, problems worsened (tell me at what times they were not) in the economy
        But what is there to mix? The borders of Europe were open before the collapse of the USSR and the social camp .. And who was supposed to go there? And according to the laws of European countries, children born on their territory receive citizenship. And then the famous freedom of conscience and freedom of religion ...
        Problems in the economy were caused precisely by the lack of workers .. Just a physical absence. What is happening now, for example, in Moscow.
        By the way, do you have mosques in your city and something has changed? There are Muslims, so there will be mosques .. There’s no getting around it
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 April 18 2013 12: 02
          11
          Quote: domokl
          Problems in the economy were caused precisely by the lack of workers.

          We do not have enough workers, and we are forced to import migrants?
          Lies, Alexander. We have a distorted and ugly form of the economy, there are enough workers and no migrants, they are not doing what they need.
          Problems in the economy are caused not by a lack of workers, but by the fact that the system sends these hands to the wrong place. If we have only the number of officials at all levels increases by 40 thousand a year, what can we say about the rest of the non-production sphere.
          By the way, in Moscow. In Moscow there are about 14 million people, of which Russians are only 31%.
          In 2007, the state allocated 800 million rubles for the development of Islam.
          In 2011, the state allocated 7 billion rubles for the establishment of an Islamic university. For an example of agricultural subsidies, 4,8 billion rubles were allocated.
          Our state is secular, the government directly violates the Constitution of the country.
          Putin appealed to the countries of the Islamic Conference to accept Russia there.
          Muslim leaders called for the removal of Orthodox symbolism from the coat of arms of Russia.
          The Muslim community said it needs a vice prime minister who professes Islam.
          Question: Why do religious figures, independently Christian or Muslim, climb into secular state structures under the Constitution of the state?
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 12: 54
            +3
            Quote: baltika-18
            Muslim leaders called for the removal of Orthodox symbolism from the coat of arms of Russia.

            This is generally strange, in a democracy a minority is subordinate to the majority, and not vice versa. Muslims are a minority, let them live according to our laws.
          2. polida
            polida April 18 2013 15: 49
            +1
            I totally agree with you!!!
          3. Defender
            Defender April 18 2013 16: 07
            0
            It seems to me that someone wants to enforce Sharia laws around the world by any means. Some kind of political movement, about religion (from the verb reeligere, that is, to reunite, and religion itself means reunification, the resumption of the once lost union between man and God), few people remember or do not think about it at all. They have territories of the world where Sharia law applies, and there are territories of jihad and territories of temporary cease-fire. soldier
      2. Arberes
        Arberes April 18 2013 10: 28
        +4
        Quote: domokl
        Alas, the Islamization of Europe has long been a fact

        Quote: Strashila
        Tolerance opened the borders, but somehow strange and selective (

        I can add only one.
        Christian EUROPE must urgently reconsider its views on its policy of tolerance and multiculturalism! It is now clear enough that these "values" simply do not work! There is still time to put everything on the right track until a critical mass has accumulated.
        Let us openly admit- EUROPE is, first and foremost, the birthplace of Christian culture and it should and must dominate!
        Recently, in the news, they showed how a Muslim patrol (yes, there is such a thing) in England ENGAGED youth kampashki-drinking beer on the street. This is where laughter and sin are.
        And in the worst case that awaits EUROPE is a big KOSOVO!
        1. domokl
          domokl April 18 2013 10: 45
          +3
          Quote: Arberes
          Christian EUROPE must urgently revise its views on its policy of tolerance and multiculturalism!
          Utopia. Europe is no longer Christian. Europe is secular. And citizens there are not divided by religion. Moreover, Muslims have exactly the same rights as Christians.
          In order to resist the pressure of Islam, it is necessary to completely change the Constitutions of countries and the EU as a whole, it is necessary to deprive citizenship of EU citizens, it is necessary to declare the religious nature of the state ... And all this is impossible ...
          You need to find courage in yourself and admit that Islam is flourishing in Europe, but Christianity (all trends), alas, is leaving. The Christian church itself has now become a laughing stock ... Either women priests, then homosexuals, then pedophiles ... Parishioners are fleeing clergy and from the church ..
          1. Arberes
            Arberes April 18 2013 11: 01
            +2
            Quote: domokl
            Utopia. Europe is no longer Christian. Europe is secular

            Yes, you’re right, dear, I expressed myself a little incorrectly.
            But if secular EUROPE wants to stay that way, then we must fully acknowledge all our mistakes and take action.
            And this is really a utopia! Do you think that the situation is stalemate and you can only wait until the trouble starts in different parts of the oldest EUROPE?
            I'd like to know your opinion! hi
          2. Flooding
            Flooding April 18 2013 11: 53
            +2
            Quote: domokl
            The Christian church itself has now become a laughing stock ... Either women priests, then homosexuals, then pedophiles ...

            Catholic? Although I am not a Catholic, I am not inclined to laugh at what you call a laughing stock. Here cry fit.
        2. Uncle
          Uncle April 18 2013 12: 59
          +3
          Quote: Arberes
          EUROPE is, first and foremost, the birthplace of Christian culture and it should and must be dominated!

          And it’s time for the Russians to understand their place in history, to identify themselves, so to speak. And then we have Orthodox only upon baptism. Here's a look, on May 1, during the strict week of Great Lent, how many drunk men and women with crosses will fry kebabs and thump outdoors! For such neglect, you can pay the war!
          1. YuDDP
            YuDDP April 19 2013 00: 20
            0
            Uncle, so you can go into endless arguments about the true faith. I came across a car on the road with a sticker: "Orthodoxy or death!" This is not our method. The time will come and they will not fry kebabs during fasting. Or they will, but they will believe. I ask you not to refer to the Synodal text of the Bible ...
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay April 18 2013 11: 34
      +3
      Quote: domokl
      And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

      here is the root of the problem!
      it means a lot of indifferent!
      1. Uncle
        Uncle April 18 2013 13: 00
        +2
        Quote: Yarbay
        it means a lot of indifferent!

        Do Muslims all truly believe? Formalists - no Pharisees?
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 19 2013 11: 56
          +2
          Quote: Uncle
          Do Muslims all truly believe? Formalists - no Pharisees?

          You are right, of course there is!
          But you see a quote to which I replied!
          Quote: Uncle
          Here's a look, on May 1, during the strict week of Great Lent, how many drunk men and women with crosses will fry kebabs and thump outdoors!

          this speaks of indifference at least!
    3. Defender
      Defender April 18 2013 16: 28
      0
      Reading on the topic: "Notre Dame Mosque Year of issue: 2006 Author: Elena Chudinova Genre: Socio-psychological fantasy"
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv April 18 2013 16: 29
        +1
        Quote: Defender
        Reading on the topic: "Notre Dame Mosque Year of issue: 2006 Author: Elena Chudinova Genre: Socio-psychological fantasy"

        The hyperboloid was also once a fantasy.
    4. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian April 18 2013 18: 51
      0
      And such features of the named peoples as respectful attitude to your spirit, to your ancestors and to your present and previous leaders and respected people of your people, regardless of whether the West approves or not.

      And we have G.K. Zhukov was almost an executioner who killed millions of Soviet soldiers. Comrade Stalin was turned from a genius-reformer of Russia into almost a Russophobe monster. And so, almost all the great people who have increased both the tangible wealth of Russia as new lands and works of art, and intangible as the reform of the Bolsheviks, led by V. Lenin.

      But people who had nothing to do with Russia, like, for example, the son of man, is a guiding cross even for the military. And everything would be fine, but sincerely pitying this man, I cannot help but notice the fact that how can you learn from the actions of a person who gathered not only a traitor near her and did not open it in time, which is detrimental to success in the army, but also people who personally saw all these incredible miracles about which we only read and believe, and abandoned this person, i.e. also betraying his leader-god.

      And what about Saavl, who first tortured hundreds of Christians to death, and then, according to forged documents with a new name, like a "Suvorov soup set", went over to the side of the enemy and began to organize riots against the government and the country.

      But Judas is sorry, because the son of man knew what fate awaits him if he goes after him, but still he persuaded him, thereby condemning the unfortunate to .... failure.

      ... for lovers of conspiracy theory, type the word belt, which means the belt in English, after switching to the Russian layout, and now remember that the Greeks brought to Moscow before our team lost the World Cup with shame.

      No, let me better than the stars illuminate the path. Yes, and once lost in the mountains, the cross was useless, but the full moon came to the rescue. Yes, and exercises in Chinese gymnastics.

      I do not convince anyone of anything, but as Yulian Semyonov said: "information for reflection"
      PieS: as a rule, all great personalities have always been neutral in relation to religion, whether it be Peter 1, Suvorov, Lenin or Zhukov with Chernyakhovsky.
      1. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ April 20 2013 00: 16
        0
        [quote = Kostya the pedestrian] And such features of the peoples you named as respectful attitude to your spirit, to your ancestors and to your current and previous leaders and respected people of your people, regardless whether the West approves or not.
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ April 20 2013 00: 56
        0
        "A respectful attitude to one's spirit, one's ancestors and to one's present and previous leaders and respected people of their people" all this was not inherent in the "reformer" V.I. Lenin and others like Him.
        Only completely deranged “democrats” like Baba Lero believe in fairy tales about "Zhukov the man-eater". But another "genius-reformer" Stalin was not a Russophobe (I agree with you here), he was simply very afraid of losing the throne, so he "killed everyone who looked askance."
        But the Son of man, just has the most direct relation to Russia, because our state was formed, precisely, as a Christian.
        And about Judah, you in vain, Jesus did not know about His future betrayal, so he persuaded.
        As for the neutrality of the greats, you are also mistaken: Peter I himself assumed the duties of the head of the church, Suvorov - a zealous Christian, Lenin - a militant atheist ....
        "Yes, and once lost in the mountains, the cross turned out to be useless," according to your faith, you will be, and you are an unbeliever. And the cross is not good for compasses. smile
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 20 2013 01: 22
          +3
          Quote: EwgenyZ
          Only completely deranged “democrats” like Baba Lero believe in fairy tales about "Zhukov the man-eater". But another "genius-reformer" Stalin was not a Russophobe (I agree with you here), he was simply very afraid of losing the throne, so he "killed everyone who looked askance."

          A strange mixture of theology with a poor knowledge of the history of their country.
          Not even a minus - no one.
          negative
  3. enot555
    enot555 April 18 2013 08: 08
    0
    the geyropeytsy themselves are to blame, did not behave like tolerasts everything would be okay
  4. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek April 18 2013 08: 08
    +2
    Tolerasti brought Europe! who pays and orders music, and Greece is in no position to refuse money
  5. enot555
    enot555 April 18 2013 08: 09
    +3
    the geyropeytsy themselves are to blame, did not behave like tolerasts and everything would be alright. pros .. if all that is possible
  6. radio operator
    radio operator April 18 2013 08: 12
    +3
    We would not get bogged down in Islam. Based on our fertility, this option cannot be ruled out.
    Much here depends on us.
    1. Kahlan amnell
      Kahlan amnell April 18 2013 12: 10
      +3
      Based on our fertility, this option cannot be ruled out.

      Well, proceed! wink Who's stopping something? Difficulties? So it is for all difficulties. When in every Russian family there will be at least four children - then the extinction of the people will stop. And he will, at least slowly, but grow.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle April 18 2013 13: 05
        +3
        Quote: Kahlan Amnell
        Well, proceed! wink Who's stopping something? Difficulties? So it is for all difficulties.

        That’s the whole point! Most Russians are essentially Europeans. In my head there is only money and pleasure, children are a burden, for which they have 4 children. Women walk, men thump. And Muslims, it’s not a shame to admit it, have preserved moral purity! That's why it is full of children! But God does not give ours! The gender of the fornicator is being suppressed! They did not hear about it!
        1. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell April 19 2013 08: 05
          +1
          You are absolutely right, Dmitry. The genus of the fornicator is suppressed. For this, they impose on us moral "values" that are incompatible with the spirit of our people. And the result is devastation. Chaos in the heads, chaos in families, chaos in the state, chaos in the country. Who does that? Only our worst and worst enemy!!!
    2. Defender
      Defender April 18 2013 16: 16
      +2
      Right now, my wife will come, I’ll immediately deal with this issue lol
      1. Kahlan amnell
        Kahlan amnell April 19 2013 08: 08
        +1
        I wish you happiness and success, Alexey! smile Let your family be noble, big, friendly and strong!
  7. Murat 09
    Murat 09 April 18 2013 08: 23
    +6
    Well, again horror stories, the Islamization of Europe, etc. And why should this scare the Russians. Suppose Europe has become Muslim, and that, from this Russia will become worse, or something. Do not forget that it was Europe that attacked Russia for 1000 years (the crusaders in Novgorod, the Polish conquest of Moscow, Napoleon, Hitler, many more can be listed) and killed Russians in tens of millions. But Muslims did not attack Russia (the Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which seized the territory of the Turkish Empire. On the contrary, it was the Muslims who contributed to the salvation of the Moscow Principality in 1399, when Vytautas gathered the 100 thousandth army and went to Russia, it was the Muslims of Temir-Kutlug and Edigey who, at Workle, defeated and slaughtered the army of Vytautas and his crusaders. Then, after a few years, Vitovt again gathered a large army and wanted to go to Russia, then the protégé of Edigey Shadibek sent an equestrian detachment to help the Russians, and Vitovt, remembering Workslou, retreated without a fight. Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the ancestral enemy of our country (Europe) among Russians, it is necessary to rejoice that in Europe there are problems and not sadness !!!
    They are only happy with our problems.
    1. UFO
      UFO April 18 2013 08: 58
      14
      If you notice that Russia has neither immunity nor well-functioning defense mechanisms against the penetration of customs and principles that are alien to us. What decomposes Europe is gradually being planted in our country too.
      Quote: Murat 09
      Muslims helped save

      Nobody forgot about this, we have been living with our Muslims for hundreds of years, this is not about that. Concerned about the 9th wave of migration and displaying religious affiliation, often not traditional Islam, but its aggressive movements.
      Quote: Murat 09
      Well, here again horror stories, Islamization

      Since you are Murat, this does not bother you, but for us the question is about preserving the gene pool. If the lands of your people were slowly inhabited by, say, blacks from Tanzania, with their cult of VOODU, with the aim of creating the Great State of Bantustan, would it not bother you? All processes on Earth are taking place according to the intentions of the "puppeteers", today Europe - tomorrow Russia, the Muslims will win - they will be pitted against the Chinese, and so on.
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 18 2013 10: 31
        +9
        Quote: UFO
        If you notice that Russia has neither immunity nor well-functioning defense mechanisms against the penetration of customs and principles that are alien to us. What decomposes Europe is gradually being planted in our country too.
        Quote: Murat 09
        Muslims helped save

        Nobody forgot about this, we have been living with our Muslims for hundreds of years, this is not about that. Concerned about the 9th wave of migration and displaying religious affiliation, often not traditional Islam, but its aggressive movements.
        Quote: Murat 09
        Well, here again horror stories, Islamization

        Since you are Murat, this does not bother you, but for us the question is about preserving the gene pool. If the lands of your people were slowly inhabited by, say, blacks from Tanzania, with their cult of VOODU, with the aim of creating the Great State of Bantustan, would it not bother you? All processes on Earth are taking place according to the intentions of the "puppeteers", today Europe - tomorrow Russia, the Muslims will win - they will be pitted against the Chinese, and so on.

        Well, damn it, the Muslim’s fault is that the Russians don’t give birth, don’t scrutinize churches and go to churches a lot. We all live in Russia, there aren’t awesome benefits here, like in Europe that Russians work, and Muslims give birth as a result of benefits, Russian earn more than Muslims it’s not a clash of religions, it’s just that Russian, instead of becoming more Christian, becomes more European, that is, thinks about itself, more and more people become atheists, and all the attendant to it. I, on the contrary, are more impressed by people who are really Christians, there are several friends who go to church, observe all fasts and rituals, wonderful and humble people, than these thumped club atheistic canoes, which are getting bigger.
        Therefore, what is the fault of Muslims that Christians do not give birth, do not go to church, I did not understand.
        1. Kahlan amnell
          Kahlan amnell April 18 2013 12: 24
          +3
          ... more and more people are becoming atheists ...

          Because people are being forced upon religionrather than vaccinated faith.
          Remember what the comedian Zadornov said? Take a look.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImsXvBPUxE
        2. Murat 09
          Murat 09 April 18 2013 12: 54
          0
          Ali’s 1000 pluses, I’ll add from myself, I know several faithful Christians, they have a gene pool in their order, several children in the family, I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he’s doing fine with demographics.
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 13: 41
            +3
            Quote: Murat 09
            I know a Russian guy who converted to Islam

            Here you are again about earthly things, about wives, etc. But our holy fathers say this: a Hindu who lives according to his Indian faith is saved, but a Christian who has adopted Buddhism does not. So think about whether your friend will be saved? After all, if you do not talk about saving the soul, then talking about faith is meaningless. Then it’s worth talking about lifestyle.
            1. George
              George April 18 2013 16: 43
              +1
              I do not agree with you Dmitry.
              Quote: Uncle
              Quote: Murat 09
              I know a Russian guy who converted to Islam

              But our holy fathers say this: a Hindu who lives by his Indian faith is saved, but a Christian who has accepted Buddhism is not. So think about whether your friend will be saved? .

              Then we need to remember where Christianity came from. I had to see church programs where Russian priests told how they suggested introducing scripture lessons at school. They met opposition in the form:
              - Well then, let's conduct classes to study other holy books of other religions.
              - Well, why do we need Russianalien religions and learning
              them - so our priests answered.
              It's not that the Arab will become a Buddhist, but a Japanese Muslim, you yourself are talking about the factor of faith. If you believe in your god, you will be saved. I also heard about Russians who converted to Islam, so Caucasians (Chechens in particular) say that more true they still need to search.
              But in general, the problem in my opinion is that Islam is much more aggressive than Christianity, which, with its indulgence, led to the decomposition of the image of the righteous Christian.
              1. Uncle
                Uncle April 18 2013 17: 34
                +1
                It is not that the Russian will accept Islam or become crash. But that Russia is entrusted to the Russian people, the bearer of the Orthodox faith. Other religions cannot dominate this land. This will be a violation of the divine principles, just as a fish lives in water, so Orthodoxy should dominate in Russia. Not even Catholicism or other movements in Christianity.
                1. George
                  George April 18 2013 18: 32
                  0
                  Here I’m talking about the same thing. It’s possible to approach from the position of paganism (which is much older than Christianity) and say:
                  - Perun cursed us for treason, and we will not have a clear vision of our path until we return to the true (native) gods.
                  Christianity has been dominating for how long on this earth, although there are people who say that Christianity is a religion alien to us Russians.
                  In light of the foregoing, I will assume that all this stirring is only the struggle of individual "holy" personalities for the flock. That the Christian Jesus, that the Islamic Isa, there is no difference, there is only a difference between people who worship this messenger of God.
                  And about what should dominate in Russia, I can say that in the 17 year Christianity also lost to another ideology (everyone knows), and it lost ideologically.
            2. Kostya pedestrian
              Kostya pedestrian April 18 2013 19: 13
              0
              Why are you talking about salvation? We have not been sunk yet, and the ship is moving, and, given the greenhouse effect, there are no icebergs on our way.

              And remember, a citizen of the Russian Federation will not be saved only in one case of "betrayal of the Motherland", or a crime with the hearth or with violence against the defenseless.

              I’ll go better than 100 grams and I’m sorry if I disagree, in no case did not want to offend your feelings.
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 14: 04
            +1
            Quote: Murat 09
            Ali’s 1000 pluses, I’ll add from myself, I know several faithful Christians, they have a gene pool in their order, several children in the family, I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he’s doing fine with demographics.

            SPS) I have 2 friends of Russian guys who accepted Islam, and 1 was with me. A classmate, a master of sports in sambo, also helps in the church, a true Christian, a dear person, and knows all the details of Islam.
          3. baltika-18
            baltika-18 April 18 2013 15: 28
            +2
            Quote: Murat 09
            I know a Russian guy who accepted Islam (I respect him very much for a strong Faith, I can only dream about it), he has two wives, an Armenian and a Karachai, several children, and he has everything in order with demography.

            Murat, unfortunately your acquaintance instead of his forehead, thinks with his pubis. What is allowed in eternity is not allowed to mortals.
            1. Murat 09
              Murat 09 April 18 2013 19: 22
              0
              What does this have to do with it, I talked about demography, that Russian believers are fine with it, and that the Russian people have problems with it, that is ideology, and Muslims are not to blame for this.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 09: 24
      +4
      Quote: Murat 09
      And Muslims did not attack Russia

      But you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either according to theirs or a bullet.
      Quote: Murat 09
      .Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians, I must be glad that Europe is a problem and not sad !!!

      you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - that’s gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 18 2013 10: 35
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Murat 09
        And Muslims did not attack Russia

        But you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either according to theirs or a bullet.
        Quote: Murat 09
        .Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians, I must be glad that Europe is a problem and not sad !!!

        you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - that’s gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.

        So what is the fault of the Muslims that Europe and Russia have a decline in faith ?? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 10: 58
          +1
          Quote: Yeraz
          So what is the fault of Muslims

          In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!
          Quote: Yeraz
          ? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.

          Yeah, they’ll come, especially looking at YouTube videos with screams of Allahu Akbar negative
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 11: 16
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            So what is the fault of Muslims

            In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!
            Quote: Yeraz
            ? Maybe the Muslims, people come to their Christian beginning.

            Yeah, they’ll come, especially looking at YouTube videos with screams of Allahu Akbar negative

            It’s your quality to inflate, to speak of small episodes as global. Firstly, it is a common monastery, Russia with the accession of the Tatars cannot be considered purely Christian, and, moreover, with other Muslim republics in its composition.
            about the second in which Muslims establish their own rules ??? Yes, you can tell other forms of behavior in Chechnya and Dagestan, and there are rules in clothes, so they can say this is my monastery. That's because they plant Muslim women in Russia, force Russian girls into Dressing latki, praying to everyone, do not eat pork. So that people build themselves mosques at their own expense and are praying to pray is this called enforcing their own rules?
            Regarding the cutting of the Hola with the glories of Allah Akbar, to which you refer already several times. First, find out the number of how many civilians of Chechens were killed, secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and that all this billion cut their heads and dream, as if more cut off one Christian head ???
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay April 18 2013 11: 38
              +2
              Quote: Yeraz
              It’s your quality to inflate, to speak of small episodes as global. Firstly, it is a common monastery, Russia with the accession of the Tatars cannot be considered purely Christian, and, moreover, with other Muslim republics in its composition.
              about the second in which Muslims establish their own rules ??? Yes, you can tell other forms of behavior in Chechnya and Dagestan, and there are rules in clothes, so they can say this is my monastery. That's because they plant Muslim women in Russia, force Russian girls into Dressing latki, praying to everyone, do not eat pork. So that people build themselves mosques at their own expense and are praying to pray is this called enforcing their own rules?

              Then I agree with you !!
              Speak correctly !!
              1. dmb
                dmb April 18 2013 20: 53
                +1
                And it seems to me that you in vain agreed with him, Alibek. Cutting off heads, ears and fingers is an abomination, no matter who it is committed. To kill the enemy in battle is one thing., To kill by mocking, captive and defenseless, is slander, which is not justified by anything. Let those who did this and praised Allah at that time show where the Koran says that such an attitude towards the defenseless, Allah wants. This is the first. Secondly, it seems to me that the debate of such respected opponents as you and the Baltic is pointless. The point is not how many churches and mosques are in a particular city of Russia, but rather that the pastors carry out their healthy competition within their borders and do not go into the affairs of the state and society. A sermon will only reach the mind and heart when they will listen to her voluntarily, and not be forced to listen to her at school, college or the army. An example is the forced study of Marxism-Leninism. While people themselves sought to find out what the classics said, they believed them, when they began to learn this from the forcibly minded and illiterate loafers from the ideological department of the Central Committee, they stopped believing them.
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 18 2013 12: 24
              +5
              Quote: Yeraz
              That's what Muslim they plant in Russia

              This should not be. In the mosque at home please. On the street a ban.
              The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.
              1. Yeraz
                Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 47
                0
                Quote: baltika-18
                Quote: Yeraz
                That's what Muslim they plant in Russia

                This should not be. In the mosque at home please. On the street a ban.
                The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.

                So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet pavement, blocking the streets, seeing dissatisfied glances of a non-Muslim, what’s clear, praying, but they want to build a mosque, they don’t give it, they pray on the street, they annoy others.
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 18 2013 13: 17
                  +2
                  Quote: Yeraz
                  So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet asphalt,

                  Pray at home, Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted out. There is nothing to gather for the shobla.
                  It’s their own fault that the attitude is negative when such crap on the streets, and even sheep in the middle of the city, are cut.
                  1. Yeraz
                    Yeraz April 18 2013 14: 13
                    +1
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    Quote: Yeraz
                    So they don’t decide to build new mosques, you think people get high on wet asphalt,

                    Pray at home, Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted out. There is nothing to gather for the shobla.
                    It’s their own fault that the attitude is negative when such crap on the streets, and even sheep in the middle of the city, are cut.

                    Well, some want to participate in joint prayers and celebrate together. He cannot be blamed for this.
                    The vast majority of our Azerbaijani community in St. Petersburg does not participate in these joint prayers, we celebrate at home, we cut a sheep either outside the city or in the yard, we are long-time residents of these places and it doesn’t seem wild to Russians, especially since we only distribute meat to our neighbors in order to they did not drink it with alcohol.
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay April 18 2013 19: 44
                    +1
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    Allah is all-seeing, zeal will be counted

                    So this is one of the requirements of religion, on a holiday to be together, to help the poor!
                2. YuDDP
                  YuDDP April 19 2013 00: 29
                  0
                  Pray at home. In your republic or in your apartment.
              2. Uncle
                Uncle April 18 2013 13: 10
                +5
                Quote: baltika-18
                The dispatch of any religious needs in public places is equated with a criminal offense.

                Well, the procession is equated with a crime.
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 18 2013 13: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Uncle
                  Well, the procession is equated with a crime.

                  I have a tough and unequivocal position for all faiths. A house, a temple, a mosque, pray.
                  And it’s not possible to atone for sins, this also applies to Muslims and Christians. Either if you haven’t sinned, or if you have sinned, try to throw so much on your scales that God would sin (Allah), for there is one essence, perceived as a mistake the unreasonable and accepted you the way you are. Faith without works is dead. For deeds are rewarded, not faith. Outside is not the essence, the essence internally, the essence of the thoughts and the works of yours. The point is not how many times you crossed yourself or performed the prayer, the essence of attitude to your neighbor, your deeds. In each there is a particle of God and the Spirit, for all are created by him. By killing and insulting your neighbor, you kill Him in yourself.
                  1. Uncle
                    Uncle April 18 2013 14: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    I have a tough and unequivocal position for all faiths. A house, a temple, a mosque, pray.

                    Well then, and you hold the May Day demonstration at home! And about the day of the border guard and the paratrooper, generally forget!
              3. Bekzat
                Bekzat April 18 2013 18: 40
                +1
                For Nicholas, and this is precisely because there are no mosques, large and spacious.
              4. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 18 2013 19: 42
                0
                Quote: baltika-18
                This should not be. In the mosque at home, please.

                So you say you don’t need to build mosques!
                And Muslims on a holiday should pray together if possible!
                Although I, too, am against having it done on the street !!
            3. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 18 2013 12: 59
              0
              Quote: Yeraz
              secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and

              You are a Muslim, Ali. Answer 4 questions.
              Why did Mohamed consider a cat a sacred animal?
              Why can Muslims have 4 wives?
              And who are the "voluptuous houris"?
              And why does a woman in Islam take a low position?
              By the way, about the downgraded position of women, Islam is not alone, in other religions it is the same to one degree or another.
              If you can answer, then I will understand what 1 billion Muslims worship.
              1. Murat 09
                Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 19
                +3
                Nikolay, I’ll answer instead of Ali,
                1-Muhammad (blessings and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it. That's all.
                2-Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed, on the contrary, it is considered optimal to have one wife. But this resolution has a very pragmatic meaning, for example, if a war has killed a lot of men, it helps to restore the demography of the people (an example of the USSR after the Second World War, if there was polygamy, the Russian people could now have no problems with demography.), Or say more women than men, and many men say drug addicts, drunkards, impotent, etc. that polygamy does not allow fornication to develop, how much now Russian women are in lovers, keepers, etc. huh, because they can’t find a normal husband.
                3- not "voluptuous" gurias, just gurias (khur kyz as we say), these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in PARADISE by the Almighty for their fear of God in this life, from 2 to 72 per person, if I am not mistaken, depending on their Faith.
                4- Women do not occupy a lowered state in Islam, they take their place, because men and women are different, each has his own responsibilities, men get food, women are the guardians of the hearth. And compare the lives of women in Saudi or Russia, I think not in Russia's favor will be, they plow with us, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc., and the husband does all the work for them, and the wife only watches the children and the household. And another piece of advice, ask about the rights of women in Islam at the nearest Imam in the mosque, he will tell, I would tell, but it’s necessary to write many pages
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 18 2013 14: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  Nikolay, I’ll answer instead of Ali,

                  You answered beautifully, Murat.
                  But the answer is a standard, I have heard more than once.
                  The fact that Muhammad possessed abilities, was elected and gained access to knowledge about the structure of the world does not cause any doubts to me. But unfortunately he didn’t understand anything, because the information is in a metaphorical version, and a certain level of associative thinking is needed to understand about what is being said. And it is still necessary to overcome the fear of the unknown, for fear is a bad adviser. I approximately know what plan of visions and images, words and sounds he received, in what condition, and how this happened. Archangel Dzhabrail (Gabriel) appeared to him 24 times, he entered this state so many times, this can be done 000-1 times a day, not more.
                  We live in the 21st century and, in principle, a person on planet Earth is already worthy of learning, though to begin with, a small part of the truth about God (Allah) and about himself.
                  I believe that it was time for people to leave these religious disputes for a long time.
                  I do not want to agitate anyone, the time will come, soon already, you will understand and see everything yourself.
                  1. YuDDP
                    YuDDP April 19 2013 00: 36
                    0
                    Yes, I got the information, obviously. This is not an isolated case.
                  2. Yarbay
                    Yarbay April 19 2013 06: 55
                    0
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    I roughly know what kind of plan of vision and images, words and sounds he received, in what condition, and how this happened.

                    Were you near ??
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    .Archangel Jabrail (Gabriel) appeared to him 24 times,

                    Quote: baltika-18
                    .Archangel Dzhabrail (Gabriel) came to him 24 times, he went into this state so many times, this can be done 000-1 times a day, no more.

                    Where did you get this and how did you find it?
                    What can be done once twice a day?)))))
                2. Yeraz
                  Yeraz April 18 2013 14: 32
                  +1
                  [quote = Murat 09] Nikolay, I will answer instead of Ali,
                  1-Muhammad (blessings and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it. That's all.
                  2-Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed, on the contrary, it is considered optimal to have one wife. But this resolution has a very pragmatic meaning, for example, if a war has killed a lot of men, it helps to restore the demography of the people (an example of the USSR after the Second World War, if there was polygamy, the Russian people could now have no problems with demography.), Or say more women than men, and many men say drug addicts, drunkards, impotent, etc. that polygamy does not allow fornication to develop, how much now Russian women are in lovers, keepers, etc. huh, because they can’t find a normal husband.
                  3- not "voluptuous" gurias, just gurias (khur kyz as we say), these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in PARADISE by the Almighty for their fear of God in this life, from 2 to 72 per person, if I am not mistaken, depending on their Faith.
                  4- Women do not occupy a lowered state in Islam, they take their place, because men and women are different, each has his own responsibilities, men get food, women are the guardians of the hearth. And compare the lives of women in Saudi or Russia, I think not in Russia's favor will be, they plow with us, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc., and the husband does all the work for them, and the wife only watches the children and the household. And another piece of advice, ask about the rights of women in Islam at the nearest Imam in the mosque, he will tell, I would tell, but it’s necessary to write many pages [/ quo
                  Thank you, gardash, otherwise it is so inconvenient to write on a tablet, graphic errors, erasing half a word, etc.
                  1. Murat 09
                    Murat 09 April 18 2013 18: 45
                    +2
                    No problem, bro smile
                3. Uncle
                  Uncle April 18 2013 14: 57
                  +1
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  I didn’t consider a cat a sacred animal, he just stroked it, and we Muslims love it, because the Prophet stroked it.

                  Christ rode on a donkey to Jerusalem, but we did not love the donkey more.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  Muslims are allowed to have 4 wives, but this is not imposed

                  By our standards, this is legalized fornication. Even a printable letter was required from the Jews. But polygamy was never discussed. Adam had only one wife.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  these are beautiful girls who will be given as a reward to the righteous in Paradise

                  The same fornication.
                  Quote: Murat 09
                  with us they plow, after work they drag bags with provisions, look after the child, etc.

                  And this is an achievement of emancipation, all questions to Rosa Luxemburg and Klara Zetkin.
                4. Yarbay
                  Yarbay April 18 2013 19: 49
                  0
                  I would add to what Murat said that a Muslim cannot have a second or third wife if the first wife is against!
                  Gurias are not obligatory in paradise and not the most important!
                  Just those who want it will be presented to them!
                  You many narrowly think that everyone is only dreaming of the guri, this is not so and this is because of ignorance !!
                  Thanks Murat for the answer! Everything is clear!
              2. Yeraz
                Yeraz April 18 2013 14: 26
                +3
                Quote: baltika-18
                Quote: Yeraz
                secondly there are almost 1 billion Muslims in the world and

                You are a Muslim, Ali. Answer 4 questions.
                Why did Mohamed consider a cat a sacred animal?
                Why can Muslims have 4 wives?
                And who are the "voluptuous houris"?
                And why does a woman in Islam take a low position?
                By the way, about the downgraded position of women, Islam is not alone, in other religions it is the same to one degree or another.
                If you can answer, then I will understand what 1 billion Muslims worship.

                Murat answered for me for me, thanks to him, otherwise I would have written from a tablet for a very long time))
                What I worship, the essence of all religions is one, be a good person, do good stop evil, it’s just that it is accompanied by various rites in all. The father raised me as a person.
                As for women, believe me, they are many times better protected than women in Russia and Europe.
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 18 2013 17: 15
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In a strange house they do not establish their orders !!!

            So this is the problem!
            It is here that state and religious issues intersect - in those regions where one religion is considered ABOVE by default "more important" the rest should be very strictly asked from the leadership of these regions.
            And since a different religion "drags" a different culture and traditions with it, and the language of another language group, which is often not understood by local residents, then local "Chinatowns" are formed, literally closed to all gentiles, including the security forces.
            In the finale we have houses, quarters, cities and whole republics, living according to orders different from those prescribed in state laws, which are "modestly" called "local traditions".
            I think that the issue of "religious corruption" will still be discussed here.
            hi
      2. Murat 09
        Murat 09 April 18 2013 12: 59
        +2

        You said, “And you don’t see at all that the Muslims are not at all the same as they were before. They turned faith into a weapon for murder, either in their own way or a bullet.”

        I answer, Alexander, the majority of Muslims are the same, just the Western media show only extremists, whom they raised, trained and financed.
        You said, you probably live by the principle that the neighbor is burning - for gasoline. It is a question of the decline of the people's faith, which is why there is joy.
        I answer, They are not neighbors, but enemies who killed tens of millions (if not hundreds) of Russian people and Muslims. I don’t understand why the enemy is sorry, he won’t spare you !!!
        1. Uncle
          Uncle April 18 2013 13: 13
          +1
          Quote: Murat 09
          Muslims are no longer what they used to be

          I love a Muslim named Khoja Nasreddin. Now, apparently, there are none.
          Quote: Murat 09
          Faith turned into a weapon for killing
          Who is behind this?
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 13: 53
          +1
          Quote: Murat 09
          just Western media show only extremists

          I do not need to watch Western media, I live in my country and see with my own eyes.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 14: 10
            +1
            Well, judging by your minus, I hit the mark! What is not like the truth, but do not get it from her, at least hesitates
    3. Heccrbq
      Heccrbq April 18 2013 09: 25
      +7
      It would be possible to treat your comment neutrally, but your name is Murad and you are most likely a Muslim, therefore, the conclusion is that it is not for you to talk about this (about supposedly "horror stories"), I respect Muslims if they are not adherents of Wahhabism.
    4. Flooding
      Flooding April 18 2013 12: 14
      +2
      Quote: Murat 09
      But Muslims did not attack Russia (the Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which seized the territory of the Turkish Empire.

      Russian-Turkish war 1568-1570. - the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552. And they sent their troops on a "victorious" campaign near Astrakhan.
      Russian-Turkish war of 1676-1681 - Hetman Petro Doroshenko after recognizing himself as a vassal of the Turkish Empire provokes conflicts with Russian citizens in Chigirin. After a successful operation carried out in Chigirin by Russian troops, the Turks send their army there.
      Murat 09You write nonsense!
      Quote: Murat 09
      it was the Muslims who contributed to the salvation of the Moscow Principality in 1399, when Vytautas gathered a 100 thousandth army and went to Russia

      Tokhtamysh (Toktamysh), having lost the khan’s throne, found an ally in the person of Vytautas. What he, too, was incredibly happy. Tokhtamysh for the support of Vytautas promised to give Moscow, Novgorod, Pskov under his arm ...
      Now you are speaking in plain sight about the great salvation of Moscow from the bad Vitovt (in the army of which there were also princes Smolensky and Kiev, by the way), completely forgetting who brewed the beech and who caused the creeps. The same Horde.
      1. Murat 09
        Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 26
        +1
        Russian-Turkish war 1568-1570. - the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552. And they sent their troops on a "victorious" campaign near Astrakhan.
        Russian-Turkish war of 1676-1681 - Hetman Petro Doroshenko after recognizing himself as a vassal of the Turkish Empire provokes conflicts with Russian citizens in Chigirin. After a successful operation carried out in Chigirin by Russian troops, the Turks send their army there.
        That's right, the Turks sought to return under their influence the Astrakhan and Kazan Khanates, annexed by Ivan the Terrible in 1556 and 1552, and whoever asked Ivan the Terrible to conquer these khanates, the Turks only wanted to return
        yours, you yourself have confirmed my words. And the provocateur Doroshenko, is it that the Turks or something, or all the same a Slav.
        As for Vytautas, he was going to conquer Moscow, and on the way he wanted to solve the problems of his ally Tokhtamysh, but it didn’t work, the Muslims defeated him, learn the story, but he went, and the Shadibek troops that frightened him when he went back to Moscow through several years, but why keep quiet about that ??
        1. Flooding
          Flooding April 18 2013 15: 27
          +1
          Quote: Murat 09
          and who asked Ivan the Terrible to conquer these khanates, the Turks only wanted to get theirs back, you yourself confirmed my words. And the provocateur Doroshenko, is it that the Turks or something, or all the same a Slav.

          Murat, what do you write? To regain influence and to regain their lands are two different things. The mentioned khanates were not subordinate to the Ottoman Empire, nor were they its vassals or tributaries.
          Doroshenko surrendered to the Turks, got involved in a showdown with Moscow - did this give the Turks the right to go to war on the Russians? Sorry, but this is a miserable babble of a preschooler.
          It would be much more worthy to admit that you were wrong than to try to find confirmation for your tales about the Turks.
          1. Murat 09
            Murat 09 April 18 2013 19: 01
            +1
            Well, I admit that your innocence, these two wars began Turkey, and the remaining 12 or 15 wars, I do not know exactly who started ah?
            And yet I wanted to hear about the detachments of Shadibek, which he sent to help the Prince of Moscow, and this helped to save Russia from the second invasion of Vitovt, why is everyone silent about this?
        2. Max Russian
          Max Russian April 18 2013 15: 34
          +6
          Good day to all! Murat, you are an educated and adequate person, but believe (or check) that the wars between Russia and Turkey were not just Russia's initiative. Russia conducted many wars with Turkey to liberate the Balkan (and not only) peoples from the Ottoman yoke. In general, the vast territory of the Ottoman Empire, like any other empire, was collected not by voluntary accession of countries and peoples. The huge Christian territories inhabited by small nations were conquered, and it was brutal. And thank God, for these peoples (Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, Wallachia, etc.), that was Russia, which helped them gain freedom from the Turks. So do not expose Turkey as a victim, but Russia as an aggressor. We teach history all together.
          PS But about the fact that Europe is an enemy of Russia, I unequivocally agree.
          1. Murat 09
            Murat 09 April 18 2013 18: 58
            +1
            I don’t expose Turkey as a victim, you say that Turkey conquered Christian peoples, and Russia freed them. But I can also say that Russia conquered Muslim lands (Astrakhan and Kazan khanates, the Caucasus, all of Siberia conquered by Ermak was Muslim, etc.) and Turkey liberated them. It’s just that they were two Empires that fought each other, and almost always Russia was an attacker (with rare exceptions, let Turkey start the rights and these two wars started), but there were many Russian-Turkish wars, two of them were caused by Turkey, and rest???.
            My goal in the previous post was not to whitewash Turkey, but to say that Islam was not a threat to Russia, its existence, as Europe was.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding April 18 2013 19: 42
              0
              Quote: Murat 09
              It’s just that they were two Empires that fought each other, and almost always Russia was an attacker (with rare exceptions, let Turkey start the rights and these two wars started), but there were many Russian-Turkish wars, two of them were caused by Turkey, and rest???.

              I took at random the first two wars. Tomorrow we’ll go over the rest, if you don’t mind.
    5. Akatsubasa
      Akatsubasa April 18 2013 12: 20
      +1
      The environment of the so far "secular" and historically Orthodox / monarchical state is at least fraught with the noose of the world caliphate)
    6. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 13: 07
      +2
      Quote: Murat 09
      And Muslims did not attack Russia

      Murat, my friend, have you forgotten Turkey?
      1. Murat 09
        Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 29
        +1
        Dmitry, I wrote above about the Turks.
  8. igor36
    igor36 April 18 2013 08: 39
    +8
    Quote: domokl
    Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

    Everything is correct, the only thing is that in Islam, preachers of aggressive expansion are in the first roles. As soon as there will be more Muslims as voters than all others (and at the current birth rate this is a matter of the near future), options such as a European caliphate with reservations for Christians are not ruled out. The average age of Christians is growing, and a Muslim worker is not required to feed a kefir pensioner (infidel).
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 08: 48
      +4
      Igor, you’re wrong, they are not in the first places, they are simply shown by the world (Zionist) media to discredit Islam. Similarly, in the west, the same media show Russians savages whipping vodka, bears with balalaikas allegedly roaming around in the streets, etc. Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference. Just don’t study Islam on the Internet, there are many extremists posing as righteous Muslims, there are also extremist sites controlled by intelligence agencies of the West.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 09: 28
        11
        Quote: Murat 09
        Therefore do not trust the media

        And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?
        1. Arberes
          Arberes April 18 2013 10: 47
          +5
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

          As soon as they came to power in Egypt Muslim brothers, immediately began the pogroms and atrocities against the Egyptian Coptic Christians!
          Quote: Yeraz
          In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims

          It will not happen, we will remain untrue for you. Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.
          So does world practice show?
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 11: 00
            +3
            Quote: Arberes
            As soon as Muslim brothers came to power in EGYPT, pogroms and atrocities against Egyptian Coptic Christians immediately began!

            To the very point +
            Quote: Arberes
            Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.

            So it will be, they are humble until there is sufficient strength and power, then, as in Egypt.
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 11: 39
            +3
            Quote: Arberes
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

            As soon as they came to power in Egypt Muslim brothers, immediately began the pogroms and atrocities against the Egyptian Coptic Christians!
            Quote: Yeraz
            In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims

            It will not happen, we will remain untrue for you. Most likely, the remains of Christians are slaughtered.
            So does world practice show?

            What kind of infidels? Are you Russian for us, what remained of religious in my generation of Russians to treat them as infidels? The older generation was generally from the atheistic USSR, therefore, adults didn’t bring us up either, look wrong))
            We have enough of our problems to think of what is wrong to cut for dinner.
            Your imitation of Europe and its mottos is your personality, the opinion of the elder is nothing, because you are a person and live for yourself and only for yourself, it will destroy you earlier than your opinion that Muslims who are very different think day and night to cut another wrong cut , make a video and send it to Romnava, who is watching them in huge quantities)))
            1. Uncle
              Uncle April 18 2013 13: 17
              +4
              Quote: Yeraz
              Your imitation of Europe and its mottos, you are a person, the opinion of an elder is nothing, because you are a person and live for yourself and only for yourself, it will ruin you before

              I agree, they left true Christian values, get Islam.
          3. djon3volta
            djon3volta April 18 2013 13: 34
            -5
            Quote: Arberes
            As soon as Muslim brothers came to power in EGYPT

            Today after 19:00 on RUSSIA 24 they will show an interview with Egyptian President Mursi. An excerpt was shown, he says that the best tourists are Russians! Welcome to Egypt)))
        2. Murat 09
          Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 34
          0
          Well, how many times can one repeat, in Syria, in Chechnya these are illiterate fanatics whom the West himself organized, financed, trained and directed to kill in order to solve his political problems and simultaneously discredit Islam. Let's assume that someone with the money collected Russian homeless people, drunkards, or the same illiterate skins, organized a gang from them, stuffed them with drugs and they cut the throat of people with Christian slogans on camera, and then say that all Russian terrorists are or whether the West simply does not do this because Christianity is no longer a rival to it, and Islam is the last obstacle to the Zionist fascist dictatorship on Earth.
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 15: 10
            +1
            Quote: Murat 09
            and Islam is the last obstacle to the Zionist fascist dictatorship on Earth.

            I do not agree that Islam has a mission to counter Zionism. Islam has never been persecuted, unlike Christianity. Christians destroyed millions! And also? Christianity only began to spread more strongly in the world. Rather, the aim is to push Muslims with Christians, with the goal of destroying Christianity and great blood.
            1. Murat 09
              Murat 09 April 18 2013 18: 37
              0
              Aha, you tell the Moors in Spain, the Muslims in China, India, etc., who were killed by millions, you tell the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, etc. And what, Christians were killed by millions of Muslims or something, read history, the most tolerant countries were Islamic countries. In Islam we have a respectful attitude towards Nasar (Christians) and Yahudi (Jews), there have never been pogroms on religious grounds, I will give you an example quote from a radical preacher among Muslims "according to Islam, if even in all non-Muslim countries all Muslims are killed, Muslims do not have the right to touch Christians and Jews living in their countries, with whom an agreement has been concluded (that is, they recognize themselves as citizens of these countries and pay a special tax, jizya (Muslims pay zakat)) "And if a radical says this, then how do moderate Imams say ah? And what about liberalism (Zionism), show me at least one example of Christian resistance to this evil?
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 19 2013 07: 05
                +1
                Quote: Murat 09
                Yeah, you say this to the Moors in Spain, Muslims in China, India, etc., who were killed by millions, you say this to the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, etc.

                Most importantly, for almost a year now, mass Muslim murderers of Muslims and pogroms have been going on in Thailand, but the Western and Russian media are silent!
                Don't fit in the script!
                Buddhists are killing!
                1. Murat 09
                  Murat 09 April 19 2013 07: 20
                  +1
                  To the point, Alibek !!!!
          2. builder74
            builder74 April 18 2013 20: 54
            0
            Exclusively West? And Qatar with the Saudis?
        3. Yarbay
          Yarbay April 19 2013 07: 02
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?

          Sanya, the thing is that not every shouting Allahu Akbar understands what he is doing!
          Many are now studying Islam from the discs of extremists and ignoramuses!
          The problem is the lack of education and certainly the special services of the West and many countries create the image of a * Muslim * beast, directly creating and training extremists!
      2. Flooding
        Flooding April 18 2013 12: 34
        +4
        Quote: Murat 09
        Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference.

        In order for a Russian person to sit down to study Islam, for a start it would be nice for him to get to know his native Orthodoxy better.
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 18 2013 10: 38
      0
      Quote: igor36
      Quote: domokl
      Mosques are the legitimate right of believers to freedom of conscience. And all this against the background of a decrease in flocks in Christian churches.

      Everything is correct, the only thing is that in Islam, preachers of aggressive expansion are in the first roles. As soon as there will be more Muslims as voters than all others (and at the current birth rate this is a matter of the near future), options such as a European caliphate with reservations for Christians are not ruled out. The average age of Christians is growing, and a Muslim worker is not required to feed a kefir pensioner (infidel).

      In general, the opposite will happen, the more Muslims, the more there will be Christians who will become Muslims
  9. gorkoxnumx
    gorkoxnumx April 18 2013 08: 39
    10

    Every citizen of Russia must fight tolerance in everyday life.
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 08: 51
      +2
      Danil, you’re right, there is ethnic crime, but what does the Muslims have to do with it, for example, drug trafficking, rape, etc., is a big sin, and the real Muslim cannot commit this, and those who commit such crimes must be imprisoned.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 09: 30
        +5
        Quote: Murat 09
        D., it is a great sin, and the real Muslim cannot do this.

        Where they are real Muslims, their time has passed. Now the fanatics are at the helm, therefore they will have to be planted by millions if they do not interrupt you before.
        1. Murat 09
          Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 39
          +1
          well, everything is clear with you, zombie drives, I won’t communicate anymore, I see it is useless sad
  10. zambo
    zambo April 18 2013 08: 51
    11
    There is some truth in Murat’s words.

    It should only be added that Vitovt then conspired with the Horde prince Tokhtamysh: “It was assumed that Tokhtamysh would become king“ in the Cafe, and on Ozov, and on the Crimea, and on Aztarkani, and on Zayitskaya (ie, behind Yaik.), And all over Primoria (meaning the Black Sea coast.), and Kazan. ”Vitovt in this case was supposed to own“ Severshchina, the Great New City and Pskov and the Germans, all the great Russian princes. ”But the plans of Tokhtamysh and Vitovt put an end to the defeat of their combined troops from the regiments of Khan Timur-Kutlug in the battle on Vorskla in 1399, which by no means acted not only in defense of the Moscow prince, but to a greater extent fought with Tokhtamysh for power in the Horde.

    And Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 08: 54
      +2
      Yes, they fought to a greater extent against Tokhtamysh, but does that detract from their contribution to the salvation of Russia, and the army of Shidibek, sent to help Russia, and who was frightened by Vitovt, does not count.
      zamboy- And Russia is in fact the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia .-
      and I’m talking about this, we need an alliance between Islam and Russia, and together we are strong, and our enemies are afraid of this, pushing us with their foreheads, such as this article.
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 18 2013 10: 09
        +2
        Quote: Murat 09
        we need an alliance of Islam and Russia,

        An interesting statement.
        And how do you imagine this? Russia is a country, Islam is a religion. Is it all to accept Islam or what? Explain if it's not difficult.
        1. 120352
          120352 April 18 2013 11: 08
          -3
          I agree to such an alliance. But on condition: a) all Muslims accept Christianity, c) in order to avoid "misunderstandings", the first five generations live in isolation, somewhere in the BAM region under the control of the Cossacks and finish building what they started in the seventies of the last century. c) It is possible to release from there in portions, only those who have shown themselves in the struggle against the world reptile-Islam. d) After the elimination of reservations, compact settlement should not be allowed. f) For three more generations, encourage the mixing of Muslims with the Chukchi, Yakuts, Evens, Yukaghirs, Dolgans, Khanty, Mansi, etc.
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 11: 54
            0
            Quote: 120352
            I agree to such an alliance. But on condition: a) all Muslims accept Christianity, c) in order to avoid "misunderstandings", the first five generations live in isolation, somewhere in the BAM region under the control of the Cossacks and finish building what they started in the seventies of the last century. c) It is possible to release from there in portions, only those who have shown themselves in the struggle against the world reptile-Islam. d) After the elimination of reservations, compact settlement should not be allowed. f) For three more generations, encourage the mixing of Muslims with the Chukchi, Yakuts, Evens, Yukaghirs, Dolgans, Khanty, Mansi, etc.

            Yeah, and where are these Christians? Wearing a cross around his neck is not considered to be a Christian. If there were real Christians, then these people would perfectly understand Islam and its dogmas and behave like real Christians, would go to church, would dress like Christians, and then the difference would be minimal between Islam and Christianity.
            The conflict is that atheists and people who call themselves Christian because of the cross around the neck infuriate that Muslims erect mosques, are many children and go to their temples in thousands.
            So do not mix Christianity here.
            And about the rest of the nonsense that you wrote, I advised you to go to the doctor many times, you can just stumble upon a Muslim who will take your words seriously and then a new video into Romanov’s piggy bank, although I doubt that you can say that to a Muslim in person laughing
            1. Flooding
              Flooding April 18 2013 12: 36
              +1
              Quote: Yeraz
              The conflict is that atheists and people who call themselves Christian because of the cross around the neck infuriate that Muslims erect mosques, are many children and go to their temples in thousands.

              But true Christians are not outraged by the trend? Should a true Christian think only of his soul, and not of the vanity of the world? Someone probably would have liked this position. But I am sincerely sure that this is not so.
            2. Uncle
              Uncle April 18 2013 15: 18
              0
              Quote: Yeraz
              Yeah, and where are these Christians?

              Here I am.
              Quote: Yeraz
              and then the difference would be minimal between Islam and Christianity.

              Do not be offended, but you should learn by yourself. Or do you think that Hosts and Allah are one and the same? And we go to the same Father, only in different ways? Christ clearly told us: "I am the door of the sheep", without Christ there is no entrance to the Father, there is no salvation, and you only regard him as a Prophet. Although the fact that God was crucified was already clear to the crucifiers! The Jews understood this! (only not recognized)
              However, I will say that I can’t say that a true Muslim will not be saved. God has a lot of space in heaven, everyone will have enough.
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 19 2013 07: 11
                0
                Quote: Uncle
                Although the fact that God was crucified was clear to the crucifixes!

                Do not blaspheme!
                God cannot be crucified!
                And I wrote to you on Islam the prophet Isa was not crucified !!
        2. Murat 09
          Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 40
          0
          The Union of Islam and Russia - the union of Islamic countries and Russia, if you like
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 April 18 2013 15: 59
            -1
            Quote: Murat 09
            The Union of Islam and Russia - the union of Islamic countries and Russia, if you like

            This will never happen.
            Russia will be the first country in the world where all religions are transformed into one doctrine based on a scientific worldview.
            The rest of the world will slide into the abyss of chaos, but the doors will be open.
            Will people want to change?
            Will they want to reject everything old?
            Do they want to start a new life or prefer to die for myths?
            What do you decide for yourself?
            You don’t know it now. But I think you will make the right decision.
            1. Murat 09
              Murat 09 April 18 2013 19: 09
              +2
              Nikolay, as I understand it, your faith is science and scientists, I am very sorry for you, please read to Yu.I. Mukhin about these very scientists, about their moral qualities, etc. If I find a link to throw.
              here is one of the links of their many articles,
              http://www.ymuhin.ru/node/788/nezamenimye-spetsialisty
    2. zambo
      zambo April 18 2013 09: 45
      +4
      "Minus", with which part of my comment do you disagree?
      About the battle in Vorskla in 1399 or that Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

      Justify the "cons".
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 18 2013 10: 04
        +4
        Quote: zamboy
        Minushers "which part of my comment do you disagree with?

        Quote: zamboy
        About the Battle of Vorskla in 1399

        History isn’t worth it, in this case it has nothing to do with it. We are not in the 14-15th century, we are in the 21st. And .....
        I really love women, but I hate women in hijab and the cry of the muezzin at dawn.
        Any religion and Islam, in particular, should not be dogma frozen in centuries, but develop.
        1. zambo
          zambo April 18 2013 11: 16
          +1
          Quote "baltika-18":
          History isn’t worth it, in this case it has nothing to do with it. We are not in the 14-15th century, we are in the 21st. And .....

          My comment was a response to the "weaving" (as you put it) of an example from the story from "MURAT 09", but about muezzins and hijabs I agree, I live in the Stavropol Territory and it's not for me to explain it ...
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 April 18 2013 12: 08
            +1
            Quote: zamboy
            My comment was a response to the "weaving" (as you put it) example from the story from "MURAT 09

            Then I did not understand you. But this is because of my slightly different view of history.
            Quote: zamboy
            I agree about muezzins and hijabs, I live in the Stavropol Territory and I don’t have to explain it ...

            I am glad that we agree on this issue.
        2. ultra
          ultra April 18 2013 16: 50
          0
          Quote: baltika-18
          Any religion and Islam, in particular, should not be dogma frozen in centuries, but develop.

          Today’s Islam is Christianity 600 years ago, the same fanaticism, bonfires of the Inquisition, etc. One must understand that religion is relatively young with all the consequences! hi
      2. PrikVO 84-86
        PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 10: 15
        10
        Muslims are different. Russians peacefully coexisted (last 500 years) only with Volga Muslims. Tatars and Bashkirs. These peoples, despite another religion, are mentally very close to the Slavs. And with all the other muses, the Russians fought. The most obvious example is the North Caucasian peoples. The whole story we fought with them. Except for those periods when our dominance was overwhelming. But, as soon as Russian power was weakened, we immediately received a knife in the back from the Caucasians. So it was during the Civil War, and during the Second World War and in the 90s.
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 18 2013 10: 20
          0
          Quote: PrikVO 84-86
          Russians peacefully coexisted (last 500 years) only with Volga Muslims. Tatars and Bashkirs.

          You are VERY and VERY optimistic in determining the time frame for "peaceful living". Well, there is a slightly different story, different from the one that is now developing in the world ...
          1. PrikVO 84-86
            PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 10: 26
            0
            After the conquest of Kazan by Ivan the Terrible, there were no big excesses. Between Russians and Tatars. Is not it so?
            1. d.gksueyjd
              d.gksueyjd April 18 2013 10: 32
              +2
              Go live in Kazan and check ON YOURSELF!
      3. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 18 2013 10: 41
        +2
        Quote: zamboy
        "Minus", with which part of my comment do you disagree?
        About the battle in Vorskla in 1399 or that Russia is actually the only unique country with a long history, in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

        Justify the "cons".

        Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 11: 02
          0
          Quote: Yeraz
          Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.

          Well, where are we to you
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 57
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            Yes, they are slow-witted, where they justify the liens minusanut. Strategic thinking zero.

            Well, where are we to you

            Hah, that’s the minuser)))
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 13: 58
              +1
              Quote: Yeraz
              Hah, that’s the minuser)))

              Ha, there is no my minus tongue
    3. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 13: 20
      +1
      Quote: zamboy
      in which Orthodox people and Muslims fought peacefully and together, shoulder to shoulder, fought against the enemies of Russia.

      Indigenous peoples got along! And now in Moscow there are more Uzbeks than Russians.
  11. pinecone
    pinecone April 18 2013 08: 57
    +2
    In the Ottoman Empire, a Christian’s testimony in court was not considered legal if it wasn’t supported by a Muslim testimony, and Christians paid double tax.

    To the author. Comrade Chuvakin, please, don't need these "Molotov cocktails" invented by American journalists.
  12. Vrungel78
    Vrungel78 April 18 2013 08: 59
    +4
    A few points.
    Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe.
    For what they fought, they ran into something.
    And in tolerant France, in November last year, a mosque was opened for sexual minorities.
    And this is generally upside down. Allah must immediately punish the LGBT-tion with a sandstorm.
    It is precisely on this European experience that the “dear Russians,” who are also offered in a massive manner to start building huge mosques and bring in migrants, should think about.
    Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that
    And further. Muslim comrades, I appeal to those who want to organize the likeness of your countries on my territory. To put it mildly, with their charter, they don’t climb into someone else’s monastery. For those who are in the tank: Fuck you in your black-posters and do whatever you want there.
    1. PrikVO 84-86
      PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 10: 17
      0
      === Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that ===
      "Patriot" Putin also thinks so. Unfortunately...
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 18 2013 10: 46
      0
      Quote: Vrungel78
      A few points.
      Analysts believe this year will set a record for the number of mosques being built in Europe.
      For what they fought, they ran into something.
      And in tolerant France, in November last year, a mosque was opened for sexual minorities.
      And this is generally upside down. Allah must immediately punish the LGBT-tion with a sandstorm.
      It is precisely on this European experience that the “dear Russians,” who are also offered in a massive manner to start building huge mosques and bring in migrants, should think about.
      Tolerast Medvedev believes exactly that
      And further. Muslim comrades, I appeal to those who want to organize the likeness of your countries on my territory. To put it mildly, with their charter, they don’t climb into someone else’s monastery. For those who are in the tank: Fuck you in your black-posters and do whatever you want there.

      Considering that you turned to all Muslims, I’ll ask you a wise guy, well, Muslims of the CIS, and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 11: 04
        0
        Quote: Yeraz
        , and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too

        We will figure it out in our own country, without the intervention of the citizens of Azerbaijan!
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 09
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Yeraz
          , and what you will do with local Muslims is like their monastery, too

          We will figure it out in our own country, without the intervention of the citizens of Azerbaijan!

          Given that here all Muslims are generalized, this applies to everyone, by the way I’m a citizen of Russia already. Therefore, when they tell me a Muslim citizen of the Russian Federation that it turns out we are sleeping here and see in a dream how to replenish your collection of videos with the severed heads of infidels)))
          And once again it’s enough to constantly write this or that, this is a public site where citizens of all countries of the world and religions can leave their comments, if you do not like it you have 2 ways not to go to this site or to achieve restrictions so that we can write here people of a certain category who are lying personally to you.
          1. PrikVO 84-86
            PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 13: 47
            0
            As you become a citizen of the Russian Federation, you will cease to be one. For you migrants - change your passport - how to sell a kilogram of tomato in the market.
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz April 18 2013 14: 48
              +3
              [quote = PrikVO 84-86] As you become a citizen of the Russian Federation, you will cease to be one. For you migrants - change your passport - how to sell a kilogram of tomato on the market. [/ Quit)))
              What are you depriving)) My ancestors fought for Leningrad, and since then my relatives have been here, I didn’t want to get a passport for my historic homeland, but alas, seeing that with my values, what the authorities do with the people does not fit into my understanding of Islam and the Caucasus, and therefore my parents realized that either I would shoot someone and go to jail or they would shame me for my statements, they would return me back quickly. So you can have no doubt about the truth of my citizenship, we are not market brothers, but Uchian, military, doctors and other specialties and respected family in this city
              Rather, we are able to deprive someone of something than us))
              1. Mhpv
                Mhpv April 18 2013 15: 21
                -1
                If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian
                1. Apollo
                  Apollo April 18 2013 17: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: mhpv
                  If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian


                  Dear why you are rushing from one extreme to the other, and where does nationality come from ?! If a Russian citizen (it is still unknown who will run and who will be surely dead and not flinch), all Russian citizens are sure, regardless of nationality, will stand upright to defend the Fatherland. Remember history of the Great Patriotic War. Hitler believed that the peoples of the USSR would not be together and would scatter into national apartments. The main miscalculation was this. Remember the Anthem. The Union of the Indestructible ....... !!!
                  1. Mhpv
                    Mhpv April 19 2013 09: 24
                    +1
                    Then why did the Russians living in the Asian republics be expelled without saying that they were cut only because they were Russians, although many were born there.
                    I even know examples when children from the same republics in our time studied in Russia only in the elementary grades as soon as the study of history began so immediately home.
                    So I meant that most aspire to obtain citizenship as a marriage of convenience. Well, there’s nowhere to run Russians just beyond Russia, and I don’t argue about the rest, it’s not a nation that paints a person, but vice versa.
                    ".... free republics, Great Russia united forever" I think it's not worth it further hi
                2. Yeraz
                  Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: mhpv
                  If you have Russian citizenship, then this does not mean that you are Russian

                  C'mon ?????? So you enlightened me, otherwise I thought the Chechens, the Tatars are Russian and I will also become Russian after receiving citizenship))
                  I am Azeri-Turk Russian)) In what happens)))
                  1. Mhpv
                    Mhpv April 19 2013 09: 33
                    0
                    Yeraz, you yourself have clearly defined yourself as a Russian, but you live in Russia probably according to your traditions and these traditions are already beginning to be imposed by Russians starting from oriental music and so on, this is what starts to annoy, and so who lives against, just respect the nation where you live (not only Russian at least Germans, at least someone else)
              2. Uncle
                Uncle April 18 2013 15: 21
                +1
                Quote: Yeraz
                we are not market frauds here, but Uchisian, military, doctors and other specialties and a respected family in this city

                And this, by the way, is good. We need these.
              3. PrikVO 84-86
                PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 16: 51
                0
                Take your "valuables" to Turkey, Iran, etc.
                Rather, we are able to deprive someone of something than us
                "Who are "we? Migrants? So we - not migrants - and so we know that as soon as there are enough of you here, you will arrange the same mess in Russia as in your camps. Live at home, put things in order there, build roads, schools, enterprises, etc. there. You are not needed here.
              4. baltika-18
                baltika-18 April 18 2013 18: 26
                0
                Quote: Yeraz
                Alas, I saw that with my values, what the authorities do with the people does not fit into my understanding of Islam and the Caucasus

                Ali, then it’s not all lost, since there are people like you.
                At the very least, it is worth thinking about the problem of diasporas and not making hasty decisions.
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 14: 01
            0
            Quote: Yeraz
            is a public site, g

            This is Russian sayit !!!
            1. Apollo
              Apollo April 18 2013 17: 25
              +5
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              This is Russian sayit !!!


              Alexander buddy hi drinks used to be a Russian site, now the CIS site, God forbid in the future will be the site of the updated Union fellow
            2. Yeraz
              Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 28
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Yeraz
              is a public site, g

              This is Russian sayit !!!

              Yes this is a Russian PUBLIC website fellow
            3. Yeraz
              Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 28
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Yeraz
              is a public site, g

              This is Russian sayit !!!

              Yes this is a Russian PUBLIC website fellow
          3. Vrungel78
            Vrungel78 April 18 2013 14: 43
            +1
            I respect your opinion and upholding justice. But we live in a Christian country so that the Tolerasts do not speak in the Kremlin. I am an unbeliever, but I adhere to the principles set forth in the Bible. 7 covenants: do not kill, do not create an idol for yourself, do not steal, etc.- this is generally spelled out in other words in the Constitutions and Criminal Code of many countries, i.e. lifestyle. And the Quran permits both to kill (infidels), and to rob (infidels) and much more, which contradicts the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Therefore, I repeat, whoever doesn’t like to march to their countries, and who has their homeland-Russia, live peacefully, do not unleash conflicts, wars, and do not dance Lezghin in the streets. And then you will not be criticized, and you will not be offended. The initiators of this conflict of religions are Muslims.
      2. Vrungel78
        Vrungel78 April 18 2013 11: 38
        +2
        local Muslims, respect and honor, do not fall to their knees in the city center and do not impose their faith and traditions on me.
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 27
          +1
          Quote: Vrungel78
          local Muslims, respect and honor, do not fall to their knees in the city center and do not impose their faith and traditions on me.

          Are you sure that local Muslims do not pray on their knees in the center?
          And the question is for you, but that they would normally and clearly answer exactly how Muslims impose their religion on you.
          1. Vrungel78
            Vrungel78 April 18 2013 14: 30
            0
            There is some percentage now, but this "tradition" was brought in by Gaster. And religion is imposed as follows: the requirement to build mosques. And this argument is enough.
            1. Murat 09
              Murat 09 April 18 2013 14: 45
              0
              Vladimir, why do Muslims, citizens of Russia, have no right to build a mosque in Moscow, and, after all, there are Christian churches in Dagestan, Chechnya, Ingushetia, the KBR or the KCR, and they are still being built, can it also be forbidden, based on your logic ?? ?
              1. PrikVO 84-86
                PrikVO 84-86 April 18 2013 16: 44
                0
                What did you do with the Russians who lived in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan? Now come to us and demand something there. Do not go to another monastery with your charter.
                1. Murat 09
                  Murat 09 April 18 2013 18: 24
                  0
                  I did nothing, I have a lot of good Russian acquaintances, we have 35% of the population in the KCR and live and have no problems, but in Chechnya, if you didn’t forget, there was a war, and 300 Russians fled and Chechens killed 000 people. I don’t argue, during Dudaev in 250-000 there were killings on ethnic grounds, about 1992 (two thousand) Russians were killed in two years, this is bad, but note that in Grozny, on the orders of Yeltsin, Russian air force killed 1994 months in a artillery is ten times more than Russians, 2000 people. Why don’t you curse Yeltsin, although in 2 months he killed ten times more Russians than Chechens in 20 years?
                2. Yeraz
                  Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 31
                  +2
                  Quote: Prikvo 84-86
                  What did you do with the Russians who lived in Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan? Now come to us and demand something there. Do not go to another monastery with your charter.

                  yeah, we are sitting here discussing potential opponents of their army, etc. Yes, in order to arrange Syria, you just need to bring fire to the barrel such a love of the inhabitants of Russia for each other))
                  1. Murat 09
                    Murat 09 April 18 2013 20: 16
                    +1
                    Yes, Ali, you’re right, this is sad, zombie in the media does not pass without a trace.
    3. 120352
      120352 April 18 2013 10: 58
      +1
      By the way, there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia! They are all demolished. Christianity is an independent reason for the death penalty.
      Or can we introduce symmetrical measures, only in relation to Islam?
      1. Murat 09
        Murat 09 April 18 2013 14: 48
        +2
        Quote: 120352
        By the way, there are no Christian churches in Saudi Arabia! They are all demolished. Christianity is an independent reason for the death penalty.


        Yeah, you tell me about the death penalty to hundreds of thousands of Europeans, Amers, or Russians who work in Saudi Arabia, now they laugh. As for Christian churches, they are banned on the territory of Mecca and Medina, as is the entrance to non-Muslims, and not throughout Saudi Arabia.
    4. Bekzat
      Bekzat April 18 2013 19: 08
      0
      For Vrungel, I would advise you to hold a little tongue. People like you bring contention and quarrels, both interethnic and interreligious. - to you.
  13. fenix57
    fenix57 April 18 2013 09: 13
    +8
    Well, that geyropa waited for what her enlightenment so desired and ...- "... in tolerant France, a mosque for sexual minorities was opened in November last year ..." - it's hard to imagine more absurdity ... Oh, close the state borders it's time both from the South and from the West ...
    1. 120352
      120352 April 18 2013 10: 56
      0
      Phoenix, dear! Yes, we only have borders from the North and are covered. And that is not with waxes and border guards, but with ice, and they, they say, are melting ...
  14. darksoul
    darksoul April 18 2013 09: 22
    +4
    It is easy to imagine what will happen to Europe ..... all these pi.ko blue movements ... a family with one two children ... Muslims have very large families ... maybe the story from Kosovo will repeat ... only in the role of Yugoslavia Europeans themselves will be
  15. Strashila
    Strashila April 18 2013 09: 39
    +9
    So a direct relationship has emerged ... the more mosques ... the smaller the economy. It is necessary to strengthen the borders ... not to put an iron curtain, but a steel curtain.
    1. baltika-18
      baltika-18 April 18 2013 10: 35
      +3
      Quote: Strashila
      It is necessary to strengthen the borders ... to place not an iron, but a steel curtain.

      You know, the same thought visits me more and more often. In order to put things in order it is necessary to close for a while, leaving small gaps controlled by the state.
  16. omsbon
    omsbon April 18 2013 09: 43
    +8
    If you do not besiege these "migrants" (then, as I call them in fact, you cannot write), if you do not urgently adopt tough laws, then this bearded scum give us hell worse than in Europe.
    To prevent the Islamization of Russia, is still in our power.
  17. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv April 18 2013 09: 51
    +4
    Greece is the stronghold of Orthodoxy. I really appreciate and value this.
    I say this not for the sake of a red word, but as a true admirer of St. Athos. If you are Orthodox, then go there and see for yourself. There you start to think differently.
    At the same time, I have a very multinational family. We live all together, grow children together and celebrate all the holidays. This is the Urals, no one here bothers anyone.

    But the mass construction of mosques in Athens - ... it’s somehow in the soul to become bad.
    Everything has its reasonable limits. Something is Holy.
    In Serbia, for example, even in the most difficult times, this was not ...

    This is not right.
    I hope the Greek government will understand that money is not a solution in this case and will not go along the path of a massively Islamizing Europe. In Germany, there is already an almost Arab caliphate, talk to the Germans in hashtats, see how evil they are. In France, full maghrib has long been. They themselves chop the branch on which they sit.
    For some reason, they don’t put churches in Muslim centers, the howl would rise. Everything should be the norm, not the destruction of national traditions.
  18. abdul0686
    abdul0686 April 18 2013 09: 59
    -8
    Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...
    1. Flooding
      Flooding April 18 2013 13: 08
      0
      Quote: abdul0686
      Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...

      In fact, you wrote that Islam can offer something more than Christianity.
      Think first about this question yourself. How close are you to the Christian religion?
    2. knn54
      knn54 April 18 2013 20: 04
      0
      1gorab: Many indigenous people in Europe accept Islam as other religions do not satisfy the mind of the speculators ...
      Catholicism and Lutheranism have finally discredited themselves in gay Europe.
      And people who endlessly change faith do not have it.
  19. igor36
    igor36 April 18 2013 10: 13
    +1
    Quote: Murat 09
    Igor, you’re wrong, they are not in the first places, they are simply shown by the world (Zionist) media to discredit Islam. Similarly, in the west, the same media show Russians savages whipping vodka, bears with balalaikas allegedly roaming around in the streets, etc. Therefore, do not believe the media, if there is a mosque in the district, ask the Imam about Islam, study it and you will understand that Islam and what the media show is a big difference. Just don’t study Islam on the Internet, there are many extremists posing as righteous Muslims, there are also extremist sites controlled by intelligence agencies of the West.

    Dear Murat! The significance of a preacher is determined by his popularity.
    sermons and the number of people listening to these sermons. So whether you want to admit it or not, the new trends in Islam are more active and popular. I have lived in Central Asia for more than 20 years, read the Qur'an (in translation of course), so I know Islam firsthand
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 52
      +3
      That's right, because they are funded and directed by the West, so I have already said 100 times that in order to fight extremism, Muslim youth must be taught true Sunni Islam.
      1. igor36
        igor36 April 19 2013 00: 05
        +2
        So educate your youth in true Islam, why are you giving your future generation into the hands of extremists? And they are financed by Saudi Arabia (in which, by the way, the center of traditional Islam Mecca and Medina are located) and Qatar. And most of the leaders of the extremist movements of Islam are from Saudi Arabia. And for the West, all these "Muslim brothers", "Hezbollah", "Wahhabis", etc., are a way to redistribute the world and make money, but only for the duped Muslim youth this is a struggle for faith.
      2. igor36
        igor36 April 19 2013 08: 32
        0
        And more: Wahhabism is the direction of Islamic fundamentalism, i.e. the return of Sharia courts, hijab, polygamy, the recognition in the state of the supreme authority of Allah, the subordination of the spheres of life of society and the state under the laws of Sharia. Wahhabism is the official ideology of Saudi Arabia, formed in the XVIII century. Then the West did not even think about financing these religious movements. Now the question is, who wants the introduction of Sharia law in Russia? Personally, I am comfortable with a secular state, and if one of the religions tries to impose its teaching, as the preachers of Islam do this, neither I nor my children need this at all.
  20. d.gksueyjd
    d.gksueyjd April 18 2013 10: 14
    +1
    "Democracy is the power of money, chosen for money, for the sake of money" All the governments of the so-called "developed democratic" countries are outraged by the influx of emigrants, while they do not take real measures to limit this influx. Why? The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, has no rights, does not require social security, etc., etc. Therefore, in Russia the topic of "free toilers from fraternal republics" will only be discussed and no real prohibitions will follow. The Russian government does not give a damn about its unemployed!
    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta April 18 2013 13: 41
      -3
      Quote: d.gksueyjd
      The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, does not have rights, does not require social security, etc., etc.

      and not a migrant on what shisha then lives?
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 33
        +2
        Quote: djon3volta
        Quote: d.gksueyjd
        The answer is simple, cheap labor is beneficial for the bourgeoisie! Migrant - works for a meager salary, does not have rights, does not require social security, etc., etc.

        and not a migrant on what shisha then lives?

        Yes, it’s direct in Russia such a social security system that finally. Less need to walk, drink and smoke, then there may be enough money.
  21. dark_65
    dark_65 April 18 2013 10: 18
    +1
    Islam religion is initially aggressive, I remain of my opinion. I saw everyone from the Urals to Baku. My opinion is to eradicate unambiguously. The East respects only power.
    1. UzRus
      UzRus April 18 2013 11: 07
      +1
      Islam religion is initially aggressive, I remain of my opinion. - Regarding the first part of the phrase - nothing like that, regarding the second - this is your right.
  22. igor36
    igor36 April 18 2013 10: 19
    +4
    Quote: Murat 09
    But Muslims did not attack Russia (Tatar-Mongols didn’t count, they were pagans then), but there were wars with Turkey, but they were on the initiative of Russia, which captured the territory of the Turkish Empire

    And the Turks that lived on their land? Or did they first slaughter the Greeks in Byzantium, then the Europeans (Serbs, Bulgarians, etc.) then the Caucasus, is that normal?
  23. Humpty
    Humpty April 18 2013 10: 41
    +6
    No need to pretend that one black sheep is supposedly ... Migrant Muslims, for the most part, hate Europeans, including Russians. The reason is simple; it is not in religion. Just born and raised in complete savagery. They cannot imagine life without their wolf show-offs. No need to tell stories about the difference of cultures. The culture either exists or does not exist regardless of religion. The migrants are eating a wild, uncontrolled inferiority complex, and they are trying to arrange little worlds, ghettos and orders in which the savage feels quite comfortable.
    Adequate Asian migrants in their behavior are a rarity that does not affect the mass of the rest.
  24. Akatsubasa
    Akatsubasa April 18 2013 10: 42
    0
    We decided to play democracy and tolerance ... played out)
  25. Akatsubasa
    Akatsubasa April 18 2013 10: 42
    +1
    We decided to play democracy and tolerance ... played out)
  26. Opera
    Opera April 18 2013 10: 43
    +4
    Quote: Murat 09
    . Therefore, I do not understand this sympathy for the primordial enemy of our country (Europe) among the Russians

    Murat, I completely agree with this and your other posts. Including about extremist "Muslim sites" controlled by Western special services. Traditional Islam has nothing in common with Wahhabism and misanthropy!
    Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world. But from the side of the former Christian, and now essentially godless west, this threat has been and remains constant, in all manifestations! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.
    Russia is truly unique and, most importantly, a self-sufficient power, with which our sworn friends and partners cannot historically come to terms!
    It is also not worthwhile in this context to give examples of all kinds of geeks calling themselves Muslims, in fact for the most part not knowing more than one sura from the Koran! Their money is God - a bullet will calm them!
    Look who more and more often become victims of militants in the North Caucasus region - Muslim religious leaders who primarily carry the truths of traditional Islam to young people!
    Therefore, the path of Russia is strengthening the Orthodox Church, comprehensive support of traditional Islam, educational work in this direction, the construction of cathedrals and mosques in the places of traditional residence of Orthodox and Muslims!
    As for the Islamization of Europe, let them build what they want!
    Our business is to strengthen the economic power and defense capability of the country, with the rigorous rule of law within the country. Our state is secular, do not forget about it! It is important!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 11: 13
      +6
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?
      Quote: Oper
      ! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.

      Are you talking about such examples as in this photo? I don’t want anything like that in my country!
      1. UzRus
        UzRus April 18 2013 11: 47
        +2
        I don’t want anything like that in my country! - This will not happen if the government of the Russian Federation adopts an adequate migration policy (for the most part, most likely migrant workers in the photo). Alexander, how much has been said and discussed on this site already! ... NORMAL migration policy is needed! Do you agree?
      2. Yeraz
        Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 14
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Oper
        Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

        Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?
        Quote: Oper
        ! Against this background, some local examples given above seem completely inappropriate.

        Are you talking about such examples as in this photo? I don’t want anything like that in my country!

        Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding April 18 2013 13: 14
          +2
          Quote: Yeraz
          Hmm, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put cardons on the border

          No need to turn upside down. The people are against what is happening in their hometowns, towns, villages, standing on the original Russian land.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 14: 04
          +2
          Quote: Yeraz
          Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.

          You need to respect the faith of others, the traditions of others. And your Muslims who fill the streets of the cities do not have this respect, so that's enough to ride on the ears.
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz April 18 2013 18: 35
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Yeraz
            Well, if you do not like to separate the Muslim republics, put the cardons on the border and expel all Muslims from their country.

            You need to respect the faith of others, the traditions of others. And your Muslims who fill the streets of the cities do not have this respect, so that's enough to ride on the ears.

            haha well, you give it to Muslims to go to church and dance)) And about the traditions, I'm sorry, of course, maybe this is an ancient Russian tradition somewhere, but apart from the zombie European youth, I don’t see anything))
            Maybe you’ll give your glasses to your Romanovs)) And then you see so many things unknown to us wink
      3. Vrungel78
        Vrungel78 April 18 2013 14: 50
        0
        Imagine what the policeman is thinking right now laughing
    2. Flooding
      Flooding April 18 2013 13: 10
      +2
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Read above about the friendly Turks attacked by Russian aggressors.
      Murat gives wishful thinking.
      Quote: Oper
      construction of cathedrals and mosques in places of traditional residence of Orthodox and Muslims

      that is, you are against the construction of mosques, say, in Moscow or St. Petersburg?
    3. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 55
      +1
      Igor is a thousand pluses, it’s nice to see a competent, not zombied person’s media))) !!!.
    4. Bekzat
      Bekzat April 18 2013 19: 18
      +1
      For Opera, the right words expressed everything that I wanted to say. + Dear you !!!
  27. krez-74
    krez-74 April 18 2013 10: 50
    +3
    The USA is building a strip of Islam around Russia, and is making it a safety cushion for itself. Europe will fall into poverty and degradation, into conflicts motivated by religion and nationalism, Russia will have a huge hotbed of problems at its side, and the United States will again be left out and bleak!
    1. djon3volta
      djon3volta April 18 2013 13: 49
      -3
      namely, precisely such a plan for them. If Russia is not destroyed by war, then it will be baited with Gentiles. But there is also nature that can wipe the United States off the face of the earth.
      who could predict 2 days ago about the explosion in Texas? no one. and who can predict that an explosion will occur in the usa in a month or a year, for example, no one. and if the us air force pilot hijacks a military plane and launches a rocket in the white house? who can this predict? no one too. so ...
  28. 120352
    120352 April 18 2013 10: 52
    +2
    I love democracy, but even more so - Russia!
    Islam against democracy, at least Muslims, is brought up by Allah and similar inscriptions are inscribed on their slogans. Islam is slavish submission. So it is translated into Russian. What kind of democracy can we talk about here ?!
    Why are they coming here? Do you know that back in 1975 the World Islamic Conference decided to organize mass migration to Christian countries, lifted restrictions on the number of births of children in order to create Islamic demographic dominance in these countries ?! This is only a means, and the goal is to oust representatives of Christian and Slavic civilizations (Inquilism) from their ancestral territories and create a medieval Caliphate with a Sharia court. All this is in the relevant documents, which are not difficult to find on the Internet.
    Why is Islamic civilization alien and hostile to ours? (If you need examples - remember, at least, Boston).
    In our civilization there is no rigid division into friends and foes (For the Lord, there is neither a Greek nor a Jew). And in Islam, Allah constantly separates the "faithful" from the "infidels" and destroys the latter, i.e. you and me. It is not customary for us to lie, while Muhammad teaches: if a lie is beneficial to a Muslim, he has the right to lie to an unbeliever (and often lies to his own). A Muslim has the right to appropriate the property of infidels (and often his own). The rape of women and children of infidels (and often of their own) is the norm in Islam. Therefore, a Muslim who came from an Uzbek village, committing an act of theft, does not commit rape, according to the Koran, a crime and expresses some resentment if (although this rarely happens) he is punished for it. And pedophilia in Islam is the norm! How old was Aisha, the "prophet's" youngest wife, when he married her? SIX! And he lay down with her when she was NINE! (According to the Quran). Bestiality and homosexuality in Islam, apparently, are not encouraged, but forgiven. The concept of God in our civilization is always associated with good, with love. In Islam, the concept of good and love is not represented at all, except at the primitive, cave level: "I stole from you - this is good; you stole from me - this is evil." Self-interest, deceit, cruelty, readiness to steal - these are the signs of Islam.
    Xenophobia? Well no! Koran!
    Read.
    Previously, our civilization, the USSR, had a supra-religious character. Now, Asians and Caucasians did not have any production, economy. Islam has become a substitute for this.
    Islam is accepted out of ignorance, because of the fear of Muslims. But every day in the world about 16000 people go from Islam to Christianity. In Mali, after the bloody massacre perpetrated by the Islamists, more than a HUNDRED THOUSAND people left Islam and converted to Christianity. By the way, there are a lot of converts and among people with whom I have to interact. Units convert to Islam from Christianity.
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 14: 59
      0
      And where have you read this, as a Muslim I’ll say that this democracy lover who even hides his name in nicknames says that it’s a lie about Islam. The fact that 16000 people leave Islam every day is ridiculous Muslims are growing every year in the world, what is Islam accepted because of fear ?, and what were 300 Russian Muslims afraid of, 000 native Frenchmen who converted to Islam every year, etc. Maybe they accept it not because of fear, but because they studied it and understood the truth of Faith.
  29. misterwulf
    misterwulf April 18 2013 10: 55
    +1
    St. Stefan in Vienna 16-17th century. laughing
    Nothing new.
    1. open
      open April 18 2013 11: 55
      0
      Russia only loses from democracy
      democracy outside is beautiful
  30. Conepatus
    Conepatus April 18 2013 11: 12
    +2
    Allow Saudi Arabia and Qatar to slip well and all Islamization will end, like most Islamic terrorist movements.
  31. abdul0686
    abdul0686 April 18 2013 11: 38
    0
    Who is able to put cons ... Give your irrefutable evidence regarding the Truth !!! And who is in the Truth ??? !!!
    1. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 15: 25
      +1
      I do not set, but I will say about the Truth. How many Christians have been killed by a terrible death for professing faith? Millions, and more and more Christians. How many holy fathers survived the experience of communicating with God, a huge amount! Why not proof? Millions of witnesses!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 18 2013 15: 46
        +2
        Quote: Uncle
        Why not proof? Millions of witnesses!

        Some are not enough for a million, they ask to show a video or something like that. For others, the words of one person are enough.
  32. coleg-10
    coleg-10 April 18 2013 11: 43
    +3
    For illegal immigrants, it is not necessary to build mosques, but to send them in echelons to their native places.
  33. pantech15
    pantech15 April 18 2013 11: 44
    0
    for me, so the Soviet experience in terms of religion, without taking into account the years of fierce struggle with the church, I consider the most successful you can believe in any god, but this is considered a "bad" tone, I may not be right and they will condemn me, but even though I am Orthodox, I would have prohibited any construction NEW buildings of a religious cult, after all, faith should be inside a person, and when a cult with rich temples, garments of servants is made of this, people always appear who try to prove that I am more loyal to the cult than anyone else and then crusaders, Wahhabis, etc. appear. evil spirits
    1. Akatsubasa
      Akatsubasa April 18 2013 11: 59
      +1
      For Buddhists, for example, there is only one temple on the territory of the European part, as far as I know, in St. Petersburg) Note: I have never seen any worship services of Buddhists blocking the streets, they do not cut any animals on the streets, among them it is generally considered bad to carry weapons (well, except extreme situations), they simply gather by their communities and modestly (emphasize modestly) perform their rituals. But we are building mosques for those who do exactly the opposite ... and then they still mock, they say Allah gives them money) Amazing shortsightedness)
  34. Opera
    Opera April 18 2013 11: 45
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Dear, now in the courtyard of the 21st century, everything has long changed. By the way, the hutab do not remember which country he was in and what rank?

    Samir Saleh al-Suwaleim, Khabib Abdl-Rahman ..., in general, a lot like a native of Saudi Arabia, according to some reports, he had Jordanian citizenship ..., there was even information that in fact the Yemeni Jew named his first daughter Sarah , in general, a man of the world of the western sample!
    We can reliably say that in 1987 he studied in the USA ... How and what he studied there is not a question for me, probably for the CIA! But after this training he became a real "fighter for the faith" further Afghanistan where he was seriously wounded, Azerbaijan, Chechnya where they finished off! About Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen ... I think there is no need to talk about the United States and Israel.
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 13: 58
      +1
      Quote: Oper
      there was even information that in fact a Yemeni Jew who called his first daughter Sarah, in general, is a Western-born person!
      It can be reliably said that he studied in the USA in 1987 ... How and what he studied there is not a question for me, probably the CIA!

      1000 pluses per answer
  35. pantech15
    pantech15 April 18 2013 11: 45
    0
    for me, so the Soviet experience in terms of religion, without taking into account the years of fierce struggle with the church, I consider the most successful you can believe in any god, but this is considered a "bad" tone, I may not be right and they will condemn me, but even though I am Orthodox, I would have prohibited any construction NEW buildings of a religious cult, after all, faith should be inside a person, and when a cult with rich temples, garments of servants is made of this, people always appear who try to prove that I am more loyal to the cult than anyone else and then crusaders, Wahhabis, etc. appear. evil spirits
  36. Nevsky
    Nevsky April 18 2013 11: 48
    +4
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Murat 09
    Therefore do not trust the media

    And the videos on the Internet, which were shot by the Islamists themselves, also do not believe? But in Chechnya, not with shouts, did Allah Akbar kill everyone, regardless of gender and age? But in Syria now, not with prayer on the lips and in the name of Allah, their heads are chopped off?


    Sanya agrees.

    Really, I am not a Muslim, I must worry and be interested in which type and course of Islam preaching in a nearby mosque with my house? Should I graduate from the Faculty of Religious Studies and Philosophy to see the danger? I should know what Salafism and Wahhabism are, and how does it differ from traditional Islam? Pants tucked in socks and a beard? Until you restore order in your religion, for me Islam is the wild Middle Ages !!!

    12 year old boy chopping off the head of an adult uncle ... In the 90s, when there was no eating, my family and I moved to the village, at the age of 13 I chopped a chicken’s head, I didn’t tear it out and it was disgusting, but the Islamists are so easy here ... Maybe because in the traditions there is a ram massacre on holidays children, like you are a man, should cut well the neck of a warm-blooded, well, and by the way a man-like, as a likely opponent of Islam in the future?

    1. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 13: 46
      +1
      Quote: Nevsky
      Really, I am not a Muslim, should worry and be interested in what kind and course of Islam is preached in a neighboring mosque with my house?

      If such a problem arose, then the question is, where is our state? What is its role in maintaining order? Who will our army defend if the enemy has already mixed with the citizens?
    2. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 15: 02
      0
      Nevsky, but what about those Russian teenagers of 12-16 years old who burned the homeless alive near the victory monument, what now should I consider all Russians to be sadists after all?
      As for the ram massacre, a man should not be afraid of blood, what kind of warrior or protector you are, if you faint from the type of blood, if you know a special forces soldier, ask him how they are trained, how they make dogs kill, dig in their guts, to overcome this fear .
      and as for cutting the throat, it’s bad, in Islam they don’t teach this, they teach it to scumbags.
      and yet, recently a company was drinking in the KCR, and in the process a quarrel arose and the Russian cut the throat of the Karachai, so Russians sometimes cut the throat, so why generalize.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle April 18 2013 15: 31
        +2
        Quote: Murat 09
        and about cutting the throat, it's bad

        How bad it is. But not everyone knows about it. They did this to Yevgeny Rodionov, cut off his head with a chainsaw for refusing to remove the cross. And now the Russian soldiers have one more heavenly intercessor, the Warrior Eugene! As our holy fathers say, "The blood of martyrs is the seed of Christianity."
  37. Vrungel78
    Vrungel78 April 18 2013 11: 50
    0
    Joke. Read with expression.
    An Uzbek, a Tajik and a Chechen come into a Moscow restaurant. A waiter comes up to them and says: "Well, let's go ... from here!"
    1. Bekzat
      Bekzat April 18 2013 19: 27
      -1
      For Vrungel, some kind of evil joke, or maybe these people are veterans, met on May 9? A meeting of veterans who stood near Moscow.
      1. Ram chandra
        Ram chandra April 22 2013 13: 04
        0
        Quote: Bekzat
        maybe these people are veterans

        Quote: Bekzat
        Uzbek, Tajik and Chechen

        Quote: Bekzat
        Chechen

        The first two, please. The latter did not fight for the Russian Federation / USSR.
  38. UFO
    UFO April 18 2013 11: 52
    0
    Quote: Yeraz
    Well damn what is the fault of the Muslim, that the Russians do not give birth, do not scribble temples and not enough

    And who talks about the fault of Muslims in our troubles? It's just that Russia is not at its best right now, and, in order not to "sink into oblivion," it needs to keep the STATUS-QUO in relation to migration for a certain period. And what is happening is an artificially imposed process on us, and we understand that. yes
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 38
      +1
      Quote: UFO
      Quote: Yeraz
      Well damn what is the fault of the Muslim, that the Russians do not give birth, do not scribble temples and not enough

      And who talks about the fault of Muslims in our troubles? It's just that Russia is not at its best right now, and, in order not to "sink into oblivion," it needs to keep the STATUS-QUO in relation to migration for a certain period. And what is happening is an artificially imposed process on us, and we understand that. yes

      You read the comments above, understand.
  39. 12061973
    12061973 April 18 2013 12: 16
    0
    an image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything, and people will destroy mosques instead of banks, and a new Fuhrer and a new order will appear, maybe even in Russia, history is a wheel and now mosques will be burned instead of synagogues, a crusade will be announced against the world Islam.
    1. Akatsubasa
      Akatsubasa April 18 2013 12: 23
      +1
      As if on the contrary, everything did not work out. They will not burn mosques, but will burn all other temples, except mosques.
    2. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 13: 23
      0
      Quote: 12061973
      people will smash mosques

      Mosques have never been smashed, but churches - yes, and ours are Russians.
    3. Garrin
      Garrin April 18 2013 13: 28
      +2
      Quote: 12061973
      the image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything

      Question. And who forms it, if not the Muslims themselves?
      I can judge by the situation in Moscow. When there were very few of them, they were normal people, and with the addition of numbers, they become bolder and more aggressive. At the moment, this is a real threat and only corrupt officials do not notice it. However, as they will see it in armored vehicles and guarded cottages. But now I am leaving every time my wife returns from work if she works on the second shift.
  40. ed65b
    ed65b April 18 2013 12: 27
    +6
    Again there was a skirmish between Christians and Muslims. In almost all cities of Russia there are mosques and synagogues and churches (the latter may not be everywhere but where I lived for sure) There is a huge new mosque in Kemerovo, very beautiful and a cathedral. In Irkutsk and the synagogue and the church there are 2 pieces and temples. People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised. I think in private conversations about God they speak calmly, each has a different faith and God is one. The problem is not in traditional religions, but in foreign alien movements - Wahhabism, Sectarianism. For the most part, Wahs start to pile up in mosques at home. They should know their pastor’s face, and there is no shepherd, wolves get into the herd under sheep’s skins and will be corrupted. So more mosques are good and different, more temples and datsans.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz April 18 2013 12: 54
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      Again there was a skirmish between Christians and Muslims. In almost all cities of Russia there are mosques and synagogues and churches (the latter may not be everywhere but where I lived for sure) There is a huge new mosque in Kemerovo, very beautiful and a cathedral. In Irkutsk and the synagogue and the church there are 2 pieces and temples. People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised. I think in private conversations about God they speak calmly, each has a different faith and God is one. The problem is not in traditional religions, but in foreign alien movements - Wahhabism, Sectarianism. For the most part, Wahs start to pile up in mosques at home. They should know their pastor’s face, and there is no shepherd, wolves get into the herd under sheep’s skins and will be corrupted. So more mosques are good and different, more temples and datsans.

      I fully support it. A real vision of the situation and real preventive measures.
    2. Flooding
      Flooding April 18 2013 13: 19
      +1
      Quote: ed65b
      People pray. What is the problem ??? In Moscow, too, it is necessary to build a large mosque, the prayers on the holidays will immediately be removed from the streets. This is because each of you has no friends, acquaintances of Muslims, Jews, Buryats, Tatars, etc. There is, after all. And you do not prove to them, but they tell you that faith is not right and you need to urgently cross yourself or be circumcised.

      Agreement never brought anyone to good. Everything is good in moderation. But what is this measure in this matter, we know well from the example of enlightened Europe. The trend is frightening. Therefore, let others not be so tolerant and amiable, especially against the backdrop of reckless culture, disrespect and aggression, so often demonstrated by representatives of the Muslim world.
  41. Opera
    Opera April 18 2013 12: 42
    +1
    Quote: 12061973
    an image of the enemy is formed, if the situation becomes worse, Muslims will be blamed for everything, and people will destroy mosques instead of banks, and a new Fuhrer and a new order will appear, maybe even in Russia, history is a wheel and now mosques will be burned instead of synagogues, a crusade will be announced against the world Islam.

    Quote: Akatsubasa
    As if on the contrary, everything did not work out. They will not burn mosques, but will burn all other temples, except mosques.

    To prevent this from happening, it is not necessary to draw a parallel between a Muslim - an extremist - a terrorist.
    I would like to ask citing Syria and pseudo-Islamic groups of creators of atrocities, so who is opposing them there? Are there 90% Muslims in Syria and about 10 Christians ?! And is it not thanks to Western support that all these atrocities are happening in Syria ?!
    Don't turn all Muslims into enemies! For a long time already exaggerated scenario 3 world where Christians against Muslims will fight! Who are our Christians? West or what? Well, I do not! They will be our "allies" in this scenario, lend-lease and all that ... But when the belligerent parties are drowning in blood, the "allies" will bring "order and peace in the whole world"! Christians and Muslims will find it too little.
    1. UFO
      UFO April 18 2013 13: 14
      +2
      Quote: Oper
      Murat is absolutely right in saying that the threat of Russia never came from the Muslim world.

      Earlier - no, now - comes. Does your flag match your country of residence? If so, then you do not have this problem as acute as ours, then they do not go to you in trains, as to us. yes
    2. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 18 2013 14: 00
      0
      Again to the point post)))
  42. Uncle
    Uncle April 18 2013 13: 27
    0
    What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!
    1. Flooding
      Flooding April 18 2013 13: 42
      +1
      Quote: Uncle
      What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!

      Uncle, with all due respect, the crescent at the base does not symbolize Islam at all.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle April 18 2013 15: 01
        -2
        Quote: Flood
        Uncle, with all due respect, the crescent at the base does not symbolize Islam at all.

        The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam. So the Lord himself shows whose faith is right.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding April 18 2013 15: 34
          0
          Quote: Uncle
          The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam.

          It is generally believed that crosses of this kind appear after liberation from Tatar-Mongol dominion in commemoration of the victory of Orthodoxy over Islam. This opinion does not hold water. Undoubtedly, the phenomenon that interests us arose even in the pre-Mongol period. This is eloquently testified, in particular, by a cross with a crescent on the dome of Vladimir Cathedral of St. Demetrius (1194-1197); this cross retains its original shape ...
          This kind of cross is found in the ancient period when depicting the church in miniatures and hallmarks of icons. So, for example, we meet him on miniatures of the so-called Servant Anthony Rimlyanin of the beginning of the XIV century .. Fedorovsky Gospel of 1321-1327, the Simon Psalter of the second quarter of the XIV century, the chronicles of George Amartol of the middle of the XIV century. , Sylvestrovsky collection of the XIV century., The Book of 1423 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, Psalms 1424 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, a collection until 1426 of the Kirillo-Belozersky monastery, Ladders of the late XV century .; on the stigma of the Kiev icon of Nikola Zaraysk beginning of the XIV century. (Tretyakov Gallery), Novgorod icon of St. Nicholas with a life from the church of Boris and Gleb, XIV-XV century. (Novgorod Museum-Reserve) and on the icon of St. Nicholas of Mozhaisk from the Trinity-Sergius Monastery beginning of the XV century. (Tretyakov Gallery) ...
          It should be borne in mind that the crescent cross is one of the oldest forms of the cross in Russian churches. Another common form of the Russian dome cross is the so-called eight-pointed cross, i.e., a cross as close as possible to the image of the Crucifixion (with the upper crossbar symbolically representing a table with the inscription above the head of Christ, and the oblique lower crossbar indicating the foot). Both forms are canonical in nature, but the crescent-shaped domed cross is an older one, and the eight-pointed cross is a relatively newer one.

          Uspensky Boris Andreevich "Cross and Circle: From the History of Christian Symbolism"
          A long tradition that came to Russia from Byzantium. But the Muslims, apparently, began to use the symbol of the crescent after its capture.
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 17: 42
            0
            Vladimir, what does the swastika mean? And the cross itself? the same symbol can have different meanings. So the swastika was known both in India and in Germany, the cross among the Jews is a symbol of shame and impurity, but here it is "life-giving". And the crescents under the crosses began to be actively placed precisely after the victory over the Turks. And, frankly, we would be ashamed to publish one of the millions of copies of one article on the net. I want to read what you think, not Ouspensky.
            1. Flooding
              Flooding April 18 2013 18: 35
              0
              Quote: Uncle
              Vladimir, what does the swastika mean?

              What swastika? If you have come this far, dig a little deeper. Although I do not understand the attitude of the issue under discussion to the swastika.
              Quote: Uncle
              And, frankly, they would be ashamed to publish one of the millions of copies of one article from the network.

              What's so shameful? He gave a quote, wrote a source. It would be much more shameful for me to give out other people's words and thoughts as my own. In addition, I initially hinted at your error, you did not heed.
              If you want, I’ll provide a link to the article of the clergyman from the Russian Orthodox Church’s website regarding this particular issue. Also not that? What to please you? Maybe a scan from paper with the inscription of the author?
              Have you read "one of the millions of copies of one article"? Did you notice the lines about the Stoglava Cathedral? Read it for curiosity.
              Uncle, I deeply sympathize with what you wrote earlier. Justify your attacks.
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 April 18 2013 16: 13
          0
          Quote: Uncle
          The defeated crescent at the base of the cross appeared in honor of the victory over the Turks. Victory of the Orthodox Faith over Islam. So the Lord himself shows whose faith is right.

          Dima, I'm disappointed.
          I thought you were smarter.
          Such crosses stand on old temples built before the 17th century. By the way, the shape of the old bell towers until the 17th century is different, it is pyramidal. The Easter alarm is also in the shape of a truncated pyramid, think about something at your leisure why.
          Religion cannot be considered separately from history. Think, Dima, think.
          God has given you a head not only to overshadow its banner of the cross.
          1613 is a key year not only in Russian history, but also in world history.
          1. Uncle
            Uncle April 18 2013 16: 36
            +1
            Quote: baltika-18
            I thought you were smarter.

            I'm even dumber than you can imagine. smile
            Quote: baltika-18
            God has given you a head not only to overshadow its banner of the cross.

            That's for sure, I eat in it. smile
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 18 2013 19: 12
              0
              Quote: Uncle
              That's right, I eat it

              I got what you mean......
              And no more .......
              Thinking and analyzing is not for believers.
              They have already come up with everything ...
              Dogma, dogma, dogma .......
              1. Flooding
                Flooding April 18 2013 19: 48
                +1
                Quote: baltika-18
                Thinking and analyzing is not for believers.
                They have already come up with everything ...
                Dogma, dogma, dogma .......

                And the hand reaches for the minus. Why so harshly about believers?
                You know, it is sometimes useful for young children not to be mistaken in their wrongness, even if it is the result of an active thought process, but to take on faith what parents say. Understanding will come with time.
                That's about the same attitude I have towards God and the Bible.
    2. PN
      PN April 18 2013 17: 48
      -1
      I read somewhere that the crescent moon at the base of the cross symbolizes the grail in which the blood of Christ flowed after he was pierced with a spear.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle April 18 2013 18: 04
        0
        Quote: PN
        into which the blood of Christ flowed

        None of the evangelists writes that the blood of Christ was collected.
  43. Klibanophoros
    Klibanophoros April 18 2013 13: 31
    +1
    Nothing, nothing, European mass culture leaves its mark on Muslims, and so some of them cannot distinguish reality from fiction ^^
    Zafanatel dude ^^
    "A member of the Council of Muftis accused Christians of 'shedding the blood of innocent' orcs and demons from Warhammer 40000
    Islamic theologian ranked techno-fantasy characters among the European Inquisition "


    http://www.nr2.ru/culture/433296.html
  44. igor36
    igor36 April 18 2013 13: 40
    0
    Quote: PrikVO 84-86
    After the conquest of Kazan by Ivan the Terrible, there were no big excesses. Between Russians and Tatars. Is not it so?

    Absolutely not. Despite assimilation (many Tatar and Bashkir clans from the khans became princes, nobles, etc.) the uprisings of the Tatars and Bashkirs subsided only by the end of the 18th century! The Leninist policy of flirting with national minorities, the creation of national republics and autonomies at that time (1917-1922) was correct for the territorial preservation of the country in the form of the USSR, but by 1991 its consequences led to the collapse of the USSR and the growth of nationalism within the Russian Federation.
  45. big banzai
    big banzai April 18 2013 14: 06
    +2
    I'll put in my five cents !!! Well, what can I say, first of all it is very sad, in the Orthodox state there should be no mosques, not because I am not tolerant, but because in the same Mecca and Medina there are not and will not be Orthodox churches or churches of other confessions (for obvious reasons) !! !! The second is that the "Islamization of Europpa" is being pushed by the Masons (Jews who serve the Antichrist and are waiting for his arrival, that is, the Jews (they are because they are eating the Messiah or the Mission), they think that the Messiah will come and give them power, but the Mission came and taught on the other, they of course crucified him because he did not give them the kingdom of the earth and did not set them to rule the peoples (or goyim, i.e. all non-Jews, and they were waiting for this and are still waiting for this) but taught about the Kingdom of Heaven and actually for this he was crucified) So why then "Islamization" and not say "Buddhization" or something else ??? Yes, because Islam is not a religion at all (may the Muslims forgive me), Islam is an ideology with a religious connotation !!! Islam through the Koran governs all aspects of Muslim life !!!! If the Bible and Christianity are essentially a dialogue between man and God (where God taught and man obeyed or not and received, depending on his choice, a worthy reward), then Islam and the Koran are a strict prescription of what to do, how to live, how to dress, how think, fight, carry on propaganda and even how to beat his wife correctly (if the Muslims do not agree, then here are the links http://ibigdan.livejournal.com/12275844.html and the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33 -Of_dcsg, I'm not even talking about young wives who are taken from even 9 years old, and this is not surprising because the Prophet himself took a wife when she was 6 years old and lived with her sexually when she was 9 years old http: // vk. com / video37840909_155098517)
  46. big banzai
    big banzai April 18 2013 14: 06
    +2
    all this is not otherwise an ideology! Those. ideology kills all kinds of creative thinking, kills at the root of attempts to compare and critical analysis, all so that people piously believe and do not ask unnecessary questions !!! those. such a mass is easier to manage !!!!!! in contrast, the Bible at the very beginning says that the Lord created man in his own image and likeness and gave him FREEDOM OF WILL, he did not make him a robot, he just asked not to eat from that tree in the garden !!!! And the man himself made a choice !!!! This is a huge gap between confessions !!! (of course, I do not force you to agree with everything, and of course you should make sure of this if necessary or in case of doubt in my words, YOURSELF and only yourself to be convinced of this) So what is the point, but that Muslims, like Christians, are waiting for the second coming Christ, since Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior is known in the Islamic world as the Prophet Isa !!! and the Islamic world is waiting for his coming and, of course, will take him for a prophet and will follow him as the Messenger of Allah and, accordingly, they will accept him, considering him Isa, but he deftly deceives them, since he has great power and can even appear in the form angel (Corinthians Chapter 11 Verse 14: "And no wonder: because Satan himself takes the form of an Angel of light") or even Christ, which he will do !!!! And what does the Bible and Holy Tradition say through the Holy Fathers ??? And the fact that before the coming of the Mission there will be a seven-year reign of the Antichrist, who will pretend to be Jesus, but will be the Antichrist in essence, and during the years of his reign there will be persecutions against Christians, and only AFTER that Jesus will come and he will be visible to everyone and he will judge us for our deeds !!!! in the traditions of the Holy Fathers, all the signs of both the coming of the Antichrist and the subsequent coming of Jesus our Savior will also be indicated !!!
    1. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 15: 02
      +1
      What kind of clone appeared? Are there few crosses? I do not mind, but suddenly you start to carry nonsense, they will think of me. smile
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 18 2013 16: 17
        -1
        Quote: Uncle
        What kind of clone appeared? Are there few crosses? I do not mind, but suddenly you start to carry nonsense, they will think of me.

        What to worry about, while it seems to be no different.
  47. big banzai
    big banzai April 18 2013 14: 07
    +3
    what can we conclude: the Islamization of Europpa, like the whole world, is one of the parts of the global plan that is being pushed by the world government (you cannot call it Satanic) in preparation for the coming of the Antichrist and for his rule! Antichrist will be accepted by the Western world as well as the Muslim world, considering him the prophet Isa, BUT the Orthodox world will not accept him, and here it is important to note that not the Christian world, but the Orthodox one (the question is why, but because Western Christianity (Catholic Protestants, Baptists, Adventists and all movements based on Christianity) in fact is a deviation from the true faith of Christ - Orthodoxy, because it is Orthodoxy that is the religion that Christ founded and is its pastor, since it says "Matthew Chapter 16 Verse 18: and I tell you: you are Peter, and to this stone I will create My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it "- And not those beliefs of the West that appeared in the 18-19 centuries on the basis of Christianity, and the Catholics themselves are essentially apostates) !!! Well, while there is no antichrist, preparations are underway for his coming, and the more people accept him (the antichrist) the better, since the antichrist, or Satan, wants to destroy all people, since people are the beloved of the Creator's creations !!! This may sound like a religiously dogmatic nonsense, but the more events take place in the world, the more this is confirmed, since attacks and aggression are directed at Orthodox countries !! Well, in the end, the Lord Jesus teaches us through the Bible: Matthew Chapter 6 Verse 33: Seek first the Kingdom of God "but on earth there is no Kingdom of God because the ruler of this world is Satan, this is known from the Bible (On the night before his death, Jesus three times spoke to his disciples about this god, whom he called “the ruler of this world.” Jesus said that this mighty ruler, or god, “will be cast out.” (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11) Who is this ruler and over what world does he rule? It is none other than the rebellious angel, Satan the Devil. How is this I will give you if you fall and worship me "" (Matthew 4: 8,9). There would have been no temptation if Satan did not really possess all this. The Apostle John also wrote: "The whole world lies in the power of the Evil One" ( 1 John 5:19).) And for us Orthodox Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Cypriots, Serbs and all the Orthodox brothers hopes to trust in the Lord and only in him and his mercy! Save the Lord, and as they say in the 22nd Psalm "let not be afraid" !!!
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv April 18 2013 15: 57
      0
      Quote: big-banzai
      but the more events occur in the world, the more this is confirmed as attacks and aggression go on the Orthodox countries !!


      Quote: big-banzai
      And for us Orthodox Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Greeks, Cypriots, Serbs and all Orthodox brethren, it remains to rely on the Lord and only on him and his mercy! Save the Lord, and as they say in the 22nd Psalm "let not be afraid" !!!


      Well said.
      We must stick together. How many times have noticed that in Greece and Serbia (not to mention Ukraine and Belarus) it is much more comfortable for me than in other countries: one mentality, the usual way of life. Although we chew far apart.
      Faith is just one.

      I repeat: I am tolerant, but the mass construction of mosques in Athens: this is a bust.
  48. abdul0686
    abdul0686 April 18 2013 14: 50
    -2
    Quote: Uncle
    What are we Orthodox Christians afraid of? Muslims? Islam? Why not? God is with us! Who is on us? Look at this cross, what's at its base? Downed Crescent! Christ is the True God!

    Dear, I have a question for you. You claim that "Christ is the True God!" (i.e. understand the Creator of everything)?
    1. Uncle
      Uncle April 18 2013 14: 59
      0
      Quote: abdul0686
      You claim that "Christ is the True God!" (i.e. understand the Creator of everything)?

      Have you heard about the Trinity of the Creator? "I and the Father are one"
  49. Mhpv
    Mhpv April 18 2013 15: 06
    0
    Again I recommend reading:
    "The new novel by the famous writer E. Chudinova, written in the genre of dystopia, this time tells about our possible future. The European Union one fine morning declares Islam as the state religion. Notre Dame Cathedral turns into a cathedral mosque, as it once happened with St. Sophia in Constantinople - A novel about terrorism and resistance, the ghetto and the catacomb Catholic Church, is a poignant prophecy like Huxley's famous "Oh Brave New World" or Orwell's 1984.
    The "old" Europeans are exiled to the ghetto, their daughters are scattered to harems and brothels. The Catholic Church goes into the catacombs, as in the days of the persecution of the first Christians. Only a handful of underground fighters are still fighting. Submit or fight, even without hope of victory - such a choice is faced by all who still remember their glorious ancestors. Behind the adventures of the heroes of the book lies a difficult choice that we must realize. "
  50. big banzai
    big banzai April 18 2013 15: 33
    +2
    democracy in hell! in heaven the kingdom of heaven! A little bit about the Trinity, here Muslims say that we are the pilgrims pointing to our Holy Trinity !!! But here it’s better to clarify, we (Orthodox) are not treachers, we have One Lord in three hypostases !!! Zakharia found a simple explanation of the trinity: Father was created in the image of God and the man himself consists of 1) body, 2) soul and 3) mind (spirit), all three make up the nature of man, and the Lord is triune, i.e. one in three hypostases: the Lord the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ are whole and one !!!! In the video presented, father Zakhary explains this very clearly in the 11 minute video!
    1. Rrv
      Rrv April 18 2013 16: 15
      -2
      Interestingly, it turns out that one part of the whole prays to the other part and recognizes its primacy.

      By the way, Zachary got a little confused: the will is a function of the mind (spirit), and the functions of the so-called soul are emotions, feelings.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding April 18 2013 16: 24
        +2
        Quote: RRV
        the will is a function of the mind (spirit), and the functions of the so-called soul are emotions, feelings.

        Did you read this in the medical encyclopedia?
        This time explain to me, dear man, how you can put an equal sign between mind and spirit.
        1. Rrv
          Rrv April 18 2013 16: 51
          0
          For obvious reasons, this is not written in the medical encyclopedia - the conclusions follow from the analysis of the conceptual apparatus:

          The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind.
          A spiritual person is called a person who does not allow himself to commit negative acts, for example, therefore he controls his actions, and control of his own actions (possible only if there is a will) is a function of the mind.

          So it turns out that the concept of spirit corresponds to the concept of reason.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding April 18 2013 17: 04
            +1
            Quote: RRV
            The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind.

            How can will be considered a function of the mind? Let's figure it out together: it's kind of like I think we need to do this and that, and by the power of my mind I force myself to do it. So what?
            But then the sensory side of man can be considered controlled by the mind. Therefore, is the soul also functionally subordinate to the mind? Do not be foolish, this is what I will advise you.
            Spirit and mind are largely antagonistic.
            Excerpts from Berdyaev:
            Spirit is not only a different reality than the reality of the natural world, but also reality in a different sense. Spirit is freedom and free energy, breaking into the natural and historical world. It is necessary to affirm the relative truth of dualism, without which the independence of spiritual life is not understood. But this is not the dualism of spirit and matter, or of soul and body. This is, above all, the dualism of freedom and necessity. Spirit is freedom, not nature ...
            Achievement of spirituality is liberation from the power of the world and social environment; it is like a breakthrough of numen into phenomena. The growth of spirituality in man is not a natural evolutionary process. Where freedom operates, there is no necessary process where creativity operates; there is no evolution in the naturalistic sense of the word. Spirituality is the task assigned to man in relation to life. The paradox is that the growth of spirituality is carried out by the spiritual power embodied in a person, this growth cannot be the result of non-spiritual states. The higher will never come from the lower, which does not contain any beginnings of the higher, nor any of its potentialities.
            1. Rrv
              Rrv April 18 2013 17: 41
              -1
              You understood, in principle, correctly, it is not clear just how on your part such a rejection of the obvious. )))

              The sensual side can be controlled by the mind, but more often it is the other way around - emotions or instincts take over.

              The system - the body, feelings (soul), mind (spirit) - is very closely connected, but not identical, and the antagonism between spirit and mind exists only in your imagination (spirit - a sublime literary and philosophical, mind - a real materialistic - that’s all the difference).

              As for Berdyaev, if we discard the bombastic philosophical tinsel, “Spirit is freedom” will remain, and freedom is the ability and opportunity to realize one's conscious intention within the framework of physical, biological, social and other laws.

              By the way, I did not recognize your understanding of the term "spirit".
              1. Flooding
                Flooding April 18 2013 18: 16
                +1
                Quote: RRV
                By the way, I did not recognize your understanding of the term "spirit".

                Alas, I did not go through philosophy departments. I'm afraid if I start going into details, we will finally lose the thread of conversation.
                I can only push you in the direction that seems right to me.
                Quote: RRV
                The concepts of strength of mind and willpower are one and the same thing, and will is a function of the mind. A spiritual person is called a person who does not allow himself to commit negative acts, for example

                Is it possible to deny the availability of willpower to the great but bloody dictators who had a place in the history of mankind? Hardly. In any case, to many of them.
                Does this mean the high spirituality that was present in these personalities? I doubt very much.
                Will ... Spirit ... Spirituality ... It seems so close and so far apart.
                Quote: RRV
                freedom is the ability and ability to realize one’s conscious intention within the framework of physical, biological, social and other laws

                Again you are old. If we are talking about the freedom of the spirit, then it is in no way limited to ANY framework. In addition to moral.
                You bring an understanding of freedom, close to civil liberties. Do not land the sublime.
                1. Rrv
                  Rrv April 18 2013 19: 07
                  -1
                  "Do not land the sublime" - the fact of the matter is that it is sublime only in the sphere of myths, and not in reality.

                  "Can you refuse ..." - You can't refuse, but restraining negative actions is just an example.
                  How is willpower manifested? It manifests itself through mental effort - a person consciously does what he does not want, or does not do what he wants to do, or despite all the difficulties (manifested in emotions - laziness, apathy, fear, etc.) forces himself to act or to act . What allows a person to make this effort? Mind. It turns out that the will (volitional action) is a function and a consequence of the mind.

                  Now spirit and spirituality: there was a substitution of concepts and "spirit" was privatized by religious movements. Do you deny the strength of mind to bloody dictators? The question is not in spirituality itself, but in its quality, in the morality you mentioned.

                  "... about freedom of spirit ..." - this freedom is just limited: by education, and the characteristics of the nervous system, and the conditions of existence, and much more. An example is Mowgli children: without an adequate social environment, such a child does not learn to speak, mental activity remains in an embryonic state and there can be no talk of the presence of a spirit in people who grew up among animals.

                  But civil liberties are from the "opera about a social contract", and they have a relation to spirituality only to the extent that people set the goal of acquiring these freedoms and, by a willful decision, force themselves to overcome resistance to achieve this goal. )))
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding April 18 2013 19: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: RRV
                    How is willpower manifested? It manifests itself through mental effort - a person consciously does what he does not want, or does not do what he wants to do, or despite all the difficulties (manifested in emotions - laziness, apathy, fear, etc.) forces himself to act or to act . What allows a person to make this effort? Mind. It turns out that the will (volitional action) is a function and a consequence of the mind.

                    I'm in a hurry. So short. A man forces himself to do what he does not want mainly in situations where conscience, morality, morality dictate to him. Unless, of course, this will is not imposed on him from outside, but is voluntary.
                    Does this mean that he does so guided by reason and logic? Of course not. Because in many situations it would be wiser to do the opposite (save your life, health, well-being).
                    Exceptional willpower is precisely manifested in exceptional cases involving a risk to life. Why are people taking such a risk? For the sake of an idea, for the sake of love. But nothing else.
                    Sorry, see you tomorrow. I'm running away.
                    1. Rrv
                      Rrv April 18 2013 20: 48
                      -1
                      Conscience, morality, and even morality are subjective causes of the situation of choice (do-not-do), but a person makes a conscious choice often overcoming himself and his instincts - sometimes, for objective reasons, even moral and moral attitudes must be overcome.

                      As for risk, it can be based on affective and trance states, but there can also be a calculation when to sacrifice oneself means to sacrifice less.

                      When emotions and instincts are blocked, and a person, in spite of everything, acts according to a previously consciously chosen program, then this action is a manifestation of spirit / will power.