First Priority: Information Interaction System for the Russian Army

Not by telegram alone

Recently, Defense Minister Andrei Belousov was briefed on the preliminary results of the development of the Russian automated troop control system, or ATCCS for short. For the military, this system is about as important as cellular communications and mobile Internet for civilians. Only the Russians have all of this (except for forced shutdown for security purposes), while the soldiers still have not developed a single ATCCS. At the same time, the deficit of automated control systems is observed both at the tactical and strategic levels.

Using assault actions as an example, one can clearly see the demand for platoon-level control systems. The gold standard of modern combat is the unit commander's communication with each soldier of the assault squad. It is usually carried out via dual-use radio stations such as Kirisun, TYT, AnyTone, and others. But this equipment works at distances of up to 5 km, unless repeaters are used. To organize interaction in real time with higher command and establish horizontal communications, repeaters, servers, and transport communication network channels are required. Most often, civilian equipment and IP telephony are used for this. At the same time, it is highly desirable for the assault group commander to have a tablet that visualizes the location of his soldiers, enemy positions, and intelligence information in real time.

It cannot be said that the Russian Army is in a very bad situation with modern automated control systems. Telegram and civilian cell phones have largely taken over the functions of control and reconnaissance. If a large number of conventions are observed, this combination allows for a fairly secure connection with an impressive communication channel in terms of bandwidth. But these are 100 percent imported technologies that are full of vulnerabilities and can stop working at any moment. A good example is the Starlink system, which is actively used by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but it is in the hands of the Americans. And they have repeatedly shown how they can limit the operation of satellite communications in Ukraine.

Now in Russia they are deploying the sovereign messenger Max, which can easily replace Telegram and other applications. There are even rumors about banning Pavel Durov's creation, so as not to create unnecessary competition. If it happens that a catastrophe occurs at the front, it will take more than one month for the full implementation of Max at the front. And no one has canceled the reconnaissance and sabotage functions of Telegram - Russian special services have long and successfully used foreign messengers for recruitment on the other side of the front.

What we have and what we need

In short, the greatest success in the matter of creating sovereign systems of troop control was achieved by artillerymen. And not only in Russia, but also in the enemy camp. Everyone knows the hardware and software complex "Nettle", which reduces the preparation artillery batteries for combat from 14 minutes to 3 minutes, the time to begin work on an unscheduled target is reduced from 3 to just one minute. The enemy claims that the unit now needs only 5 seconds to prepare for counter-battery combat instead of 30 minutes.

"Krapiva" is not only a software shell, but also a complex technical bouquet consisting of UAVs, radio stations, night vision devices and thermal imagers. The Russian Army has analogues, and they are well known - "Bloknot", "Artbloknot", AlpineQuest, "PUO-10E" and others. Currently, tests of the artillery automated control system "Planshet-M-IR" are being completed, which "is designed to control divisions (batteries) of towed and self-propelled artillery, mortars and MLRS". Also, "the complex allows for interfacing with reconnaissance equipment, communications equipment and meteorological and ballistic support for firing in the interests of automating the work of officials in preparing and conducting artillery fire."

Even more advanced is the SPRUT-S information support system, the main thing about which is its interspecific nature. That is, not only artillerymen and missilemen can work in a single space, but also infantry, attack aircraft, Defense and others. The developers write:

"The complex allows for the collection, processing of intelligence information, target distribution and issuance of recommendations for fire damage to the enemy on mobile devices both included in the complex itself and on small-sized portable systems of automated artillery fire control equipment, such as the Tablet-A."

It is known from open sources that "SPRUT-S" consists of two main elements: a mobile reconnaissance device and a mobile point for collecting and processing information. There is also a certain "Military chat", and an automated topographic referencing system, and the formation of a data package on explosions during sighting and shooting to kill. The lead developer of "Planshet-M-IR" and "SPRUT-S" is the Kovrov VNII "Signal".

There is every reason to believe that the element and software base for creating a modern automated control system in Russia is available. Until now, much was lacking: political will for mass introduction into the troops, financing and other elements, the lack of which is currently being dealt with by the competent authorities. But we cannot afford to idle away a victory, like, just a little bit more and we will break ahead.

Firstly, the US and NATO countries have already adopted very high quality systems. For example, the American tactical information distribution system JTIDS, which is more than 30 years old. The newest system can be considered the all-NATO Link, which allows tying into a common space Aviation, air defense, ground forces and the high command. By the way, NATO approved the transfer of Link to the armed forces of Ukraine. The Russian development, elements of which were presented to Andrey Belousov, should at least be on par with Western analogues.

The second area of work with sovereign ICS is further miniaturization of elements and interfaces. The same "Tablet-A", adopted by artillerymen, is a very large thing. The solution to this problem is more complicated. Here, not only achievements in software are needed, but also in microelectronics. In conditions when Russia is not capable of independently producing modern microprocessors, the task does not seem trivial. And it is also necessary to ensure stable power supply for fairly gluttonous units, and such a problem is not the only one.

"Fight not with numbers, but with skill." This immortal phrase can characterize the importance of modern automated battle management systems. Yes, they will significantly increase the requirements for an individual infantryman, who will now also be an operator of an intelligent device. And not just one. But otherwise, we will have to pay dearly for the shortage of systems of this level at the front. The trend is clear - all self-respecting armies will sooner or later acquire modern automated battle management systems. The Russian army should do this before others. There is definitely a reserve - we just need to bring the developments to mind.

Comments

[FoBoss_VM]

How many of these systems have there been already... And they cheerfully reported on the budget's expansion and beautifully demonstrated it on various forums and armies and so on. But the cart is still there... That is, in its infancy. It's like with a civilian passenger car, no matter how much they try, what kind of top managers from Europe they order, no matter what they do, all the Zhiguli end up being overpriced

[Alex_12]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

And nothing has changed

I agree. Yes, we would have to establish the usual... the cart is there - I agree.. For the hurray patriots separately - communications as it was... and remained ... after 25 years. Only not in combined arms units +- there was something worthwhile. Many trophies were used, etc.
P.S., In another city in Chechnya. I think it's obvious. They were surrounded. For 24 hours. In essence, they fell into their clutches. The reason? Communications. They listened in and jammed. And sometimes. Sometimes everyone wanted to live. And they took the boys with them. It's not for me to judge.

[P]

Still, communications and automated control systems are different things. In polite society, it is customary to separate layers and components for the sake of interchangeability.

[senima56]

I absolutely agree with you. I remember 10 years (or more?) ago, the then Minister of Defense (still Serdyukov or already Shoigu?) was shown similar developments of the Sozvezdie corporation! But it seems that everything is made only in single copies for Exhibitions and Parades! And in the stories with LBS, the weapons and technical equipment are all junk! "I feel sorry for the country!"

[Okko777]

A person who has no idea about modern warfare voiced his primitive views on modern reality. Yes, he did not name the ESU TZ "Sozvezdie-M". An example of the stupidity and foolishness of our military leadership, which still does not know what such systems are intended for, cannot formulate the performance characteristics for such systems. How can one not recall the "Ratnik" equipment and the KRUZ "Strelets", accepted into service back in 2007. Another show for reporting and cheerful reports. And what about the ACS "Andromeda-D" for the Airborne Forces?! He did not mention the newest ACS "Kassiopeia-D". Where are these priceless systems that were supposed to allow modern warfare, but in fact, they were supposed to automate the "hard work" of generals so that they do not tear their asses away from their warm chairs in Moscow. They still have no idea about modern warfare and can't offer Belousov anything. What kind of attack aircraft are there in modern warfare? The SVO is an example of how not to fight...

[alexoff]

Quote: Okko777

An example of the stupidity and foolishness of our military leadership, which still does not know what such systems are intended for and cannot formulate the performance characteristics for such systems.

They know perfectly well what the communications and other things are for, just a couple of hundred billion bucks can be spent on something for tanks, or they can be stolen with important officials and plant managers. Where will the military leader ride, in a tank on the front line or in a Mercedes in Moscow? They were given money, but there is nothing, no kefir, no rubles, no demand - where did the money go?!

[Cympak]

Quote: Okko777

Where are these invaluable systems that were supposed to enable modern warfare, but in reality, they were supposed to automate the "hard work" of generals?

As Viktor Murakhovsky correctly noted, the generals of the latter will sabotage the ACS TZ, because after its implementation, "the full depth of our depths" will be fully revealed:

In a galaxy far, far away called SA, in the distant past, they were implementing the automated troop control system "Manevr" of the tactical command level: division - regiment. Adopted into service in 1983, it had a hard time getting used to the troops. The main problem was the so-called "human factor". Let me remind you that at that time in the galaxy SA there were no smartphones, Wi-Fi, satellite navigation and cloud technologies. But the technical basis of the "Manevr" automated control system (providing communications, navigation, data transmission, target designation, operational and tactical calculations on a computer ...) worked successfully. However, some commanders were so dissatisfied with individual capabilities of the automated control system that the trades accompanying the troop operation noted cases of "Luddism" on the part of the military.
What caused the most rejection?
First: automatic documentation in the system of all textual and graphical elements of the combat control cycle (orders, commands, directives, combat control signals, situation maps, etc.). Second: automatic documentation in the system of data on the location, state, combat operations of control objects.
Now, based on the declassified archives of the Ministry of Defense, historians and the public have the opportunity to compare publications of the Soviet period and memoirs of military leaders with actual events. Many were surprised. Given the understanding that the documents themselves were compiled manually and based on reports from subordinates. They could embellish or keep silent.
Imagine that the desire to "embellish or conceal" is documented in the system. That is, materials for the military prosecutor's office are automatically generated even before charges are brought. And the immediate superior can give you a dressing down online. Uncomfortable...
In the combined-arms command and control system, they actually tried to introduce the principles that have already been tested in the object and military air defense. Lieutenant General Gavrilov A.D. spoke exhaustively about the need for means of objective control (on the example of air defense):
"It should be noted that the documentation of combat operations processes and the execution of objective control materials have always been performed manually in the air defense system since its inception, by filling in combat operation logs, recording commands, orders and reports, preparing firing report cards, photographing indicator screens, etc. At the same time, careful preparation of objective control materials for combat operations of air defense systems has always been an extremely important task. It is enough to recall the problems that arose when assessing the combat operation results of three S-75 air defense missile systems and two links of interacting fighter aircraft when intercepting the flight of a U-2 reconnaissance aircraft on May 1, 1960. Undoubtedly, the first experience of using an air defense system was successful: a spy plane was shot down, pilot Francis Powers was taken prisoner, and reconnaissance flights by US aircraft over the territory of the USSR ceased for a long time. However, the reality turned out to be not so heroic: six (!) missiles were launched at one downed target, and their own aircraft was also shot down. Moreover, it was not possible to immediately figure out which of the three ZRDN shot down what. After these events, strict requirements for the preparation of objective control materials entered into the practice of the Air Defense Forces, which were prepared in the aforementioned "manual" way."

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Cympak

As Viktor Murakhovsky rightly noted, the generals will sabotage the ACS of the TZ

.
Those generals can already be replaced by a machine.

Yes, it won't shine.
But you'd think we had one brilliant front-level operation after another...

[paul3390]

Without the introduction of the most severe personal responsibility for the assigned task into practice, the development of not only the military, but the entire country as a whole is impossible. You can't hold out for long on individual enthusiasts.

[FoBoss_VM]

I agree. But the whole point is that here, as in a joke, the main thing in the process of searching for the guilty is not to find yourself. Personal responsibility means that Manturov and Shoigu with Serdyukov should immediately go to jail. But you understand that this is impossible under the current government. So it turns out that there will never be any military communications or control systems mentioned in the article in the troops.

[paul3390]

This is understandable. Therefore - and the question of course should be put much more broadly...

[Alex_12]

Sorry - didn't click on the reply. The post is below. And much "wider". All like "OR" - VVP is to blame. He is a man himself. He is not able to track everything himself. I exaggerate - the top of the chain. And not food. Food in the middle - and she. Maybe they won't see. And they won't execute. I think it is clear what I mean. "Even now" our fighter against high-profile cases - is inaudible. Apparently he rakes in kickbacks. Either they caught everyone - "or something". The moratorium must be lifted. And "kstenkovseh" who is over 10 million.
P.S. I stole - against the wall. I can do it myself. Unfortunately, I have experience. So that it becomes a habit. A dozen especially zealous "that" - and there will be no embezzlement.

[Alex_12]

We need a system of responsibility like in the DPRK or under Stalin. Of course, it should be strict. Someone can put a colleague in jail. But it needs to be tougher. When I went to the SVO, I did my own shopping. Fortunately, my physical education allowed it. I was fully loaded. It saved my life 2-dy. No matter what your experience is, shit can happen. We are all people. And we save ourselves and our guy. The one who is walking behind you. You kept a line from the XNUMXst, for example. And he got hit in the bone. If Allah has mercy on you. Your task is also to get you out.
P.S., Okay, I got a little off topic. Sorry.

[hagen]

Quote: paul3390

Without the introduction of the most severe personal responsibility for the assigned task into practice, the development of not only the military, but the entire country as a whole is impossible. You can't hold out for long on individual enthusiasts.

The practice of innovative work shows that at the cutting edge of progress, out of a dozen ideas, a maximum of two can "take off". The ACS is millions of lines of code and billions of rubles of technical support for the transmission of hundreds of parameters and data from each combat unit. In the USA, for example, the global ACS did not "go". And today there is no complete understanding of whether they are working on it. This is actually more difficult than writing all sorts of platitudes about responsibility. But we are working on the ACS, and perhaps in the foreseeable future the result will be...

[tsvetahaki]

There is every reason to believe that the element and software base for creating a modern automated control system exists in Russia.

These are, unfortunately, dreams.
Without access to Chinese production and components - alas... With dreams of my own lithograph - and a lack of understanding of hundreds and hundreds of other necessary elements of the technology.
At the same time, Silicon Valley has long been pacifist and did not cooperate with the Pentagon. But now it has. That is, they "haven't even started" practically until this year... So, although their systems are head and shoulders above other countries, they are far from their potential, if compared with civilian products.
No other military product has such a concentration of technologies as a simple smartphone.
And military products were always a head or two above military ones.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Modern communications and automated control systems, Tablet and Sprut were needed yesterday. The country has reserves of 670 billion dollars, all this urgently needs to be introduced into the army and navy. There can be no other option here.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Modern communications and automated control systems, Tablet and Sprut were needed yesterday

Here, apparently, the problem is not in funding, but in the inability of Znamenskaya Street to understand why this is, and of course hang out nice. The need for modern communications was obvious with the time of the king of peas, but it is more interesting to master budgets. As a colleague wrote

Quote: paul3390

Without the introduction of the most severe personal responsibility for the assigned task into practice, the development of not only the military, but the entire country as a whole is impossible. You can't hold out for long on individual enthusiasts.

And another loophole is the ability to classify everything and everyone, and it is often used by unscrupulous people to hide their sins, both in the rear and on the front line. Counterspies are running off their feet and are short-handed, they still have a lot of cleaning up to do...

[SOLO55]

We have already been told about the unique ARMATA and COALLICIA and even shown at parades, and CHUBAIS also showed flexible tablets for schoolchildren

[Yuras_Belarus]

I feel kind of scared. Sorry for the slang, but I can't find another word. Firstly, if Russia gives up Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram, etc., switching to Max, then what should we do in Belarus, for which Max is not designed? Secondly, how sovereign is this Max, both in terms of software and hardware? I look at Rutube and Rustor, and I want to cry.

[P]

not at all. This is an old piece of work made for another order, just with a different picture and malware

[Fangaro]

The photo in the title shows two "industrial" Panasonics.
I may be wrong, but the first priority is what needs to be done now at the level of an ordinary Armed Forces or an ordinary civilian enterprise. So that the ordinary people understand where to run and what to do. The ACS is somewhere much further and higher. The ACS is closer to the final goal, if the goal itself is designated and at least senior officers know about it.
The plant had an end goal: to produce 7 thousand portable TVs per year. The rank and file workers knew that they had to tie 20 bundles per day. They were given materials and tools for this, and there were slightly fewer of them, the rank and file workers, than necessary. Because the "effective managers", i.e. the shop foremen, received a bonus for fulfilling the plan with greater labor productivity. And the rank and file workers also received a bonus for greater output. The quality control department was always brutal. Their bonus depended on the number of defects above the planned level. The quality control department sat in the same shop with the rank and file workers, but received their money in another building.
Maybe in the case of the ACS we should start not with harmonizing the strategy, but with defining the goals for the rank and file? We need to capture and hold this object. If you manage to do it in three days, then there will be a transfer of *** thousand to the account. If in a day, then both the transfer and restoration of the numbers, and 7 medals and 5 orders for a hundred rank and file.
Maybe then articles about how now we need to plan rather than work will appear less frequently?

[storm]

Whatever they write about global automated control systems, in fact, everything will be limited to a regiment or brigade.
No matter how much the Ministry of Defense shouts about the need to form divisions and tank armies in the SVO zone, there is not a single full-fledged division formed according to the staffing levels.
There are separate regiments and brigades, pulled together from all over Russia, and it is from them that the North, South, West, and Center commands are formed...

The most advanced automated control system is considered to be the Andromeda-D, it would probably be logical to create an automated control system on its basis for each regiment/brigade, which would be linked to their command.....

[Nred]

How far everyone is from implementation. All work starts not with the device or program but with the standard.
The signal output standard, the designation standard, the connector standard - this is where the work on creating a control system begins.
This is painstaking work of officials and standardization departments. In the conditions of defense feudalism inherited from the USSR, it is very difficult to implement.

[skeptic]

The Russian development, elements of which were presented to Andrei Belousov, should at least be on par with its Western counterparts.

This has been discussed for years, but nothing has changed. After the generals who accepted non-functional communications equipment into the military are imprisoned, maybe something functional and effective will emerge without "analogs."

[Hitriy Zhuk]

It's not that the Russian Army is in a particularly poor state when it comes to modern automated command and control systems. Telegram and civilian cell phones have largely taken over command and intelligence functions.

This is not bad.
This is so fucking bad.
After all, IF SO - it essentially doesn’t exist, otherwise what exists goes to the benefit of communication providers and Telegram owners.

[Gunther]

Quote: Author

...Russia is currently rolling out the sovereign messenger Max.

Well, how "sovereign" is he?
Judging by the network screen, the sovereign is murky:
172.217.168.42 – server in the USA, California, Mountain View.
4. 142.250.178.202 – server in Chile, Santiago.
5. 142.250.203.106 - server in Chile, Santiago.
6. 172.217.168.74 - server in the USA, California, Mountain View

[fsb_buzuk]

Too lazy to look up the addresses yourself? These are Android services; actually, all apps use these services.
The IP address 142.250.178.202 is owned and operated by Google (AS15169). It is primarily associated with Google APIs, specifically the domain android.googleapis.com, which facilitates essential background services for Android devices

[Alexander]

I will never tire of repeating, whoever controls information rules the WORLD!