Military Review

Yevgeny Primakov: “Some in the government want to take an American matrix as a sample”

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Yevgeny Primakov: “Some in the government want to take an American matrix as a sample”One of the winners of this year’s prestigious Demidov Prize was the head of the Center for Situational Analysis of the Russian Academy of Sciences.


I could not miss the opportunity to once again meet with a wonderful man, a scientist and a statesman. And the events in the world are pushing to talk with academician Primakov.

- Yevgeny Maksimovich, you are the only person in the country who, I think, can explain what is happening. Rolling revolution in the Middle East, North Korea threatens to start a war with America, the rebels in Syria and so on. It seems that we live on a powder keg?

- I have to do a little excursion into the past. During the Cold War, everyone believed that a nuclear collision was impossible, since there is a danger of mutual annihilation. It was a nuclear deterrence system. Now some of my colleagues believe that such a doctrine is outdated. I do not think so, because if there is no parity, then we can dictate some conditions. And all politics was built on this. But then there were calls that were not envisaged. Some thought that a new era had arrived, when the tail was driving the dog ... But this is not so. Still, the world is ruled by the great powers that are members of the UN Security Council, plus India, Brazil, and so on. However, processes began that were constrained by the confrontation of the two systems. Both we and the USA were interested in stability. I witnessed two wars - first as a Pravda correspondent in Cairo, and then as a scientist who was sent to the Middle East during the political crisis there. Then the Americans and we did our best to stabilize the situation. And we managed to do this.

I mean the six-day war of 67 and the war of 73, when the Arabs for the first time, at the first stage, achieved great success. Kissinger then outwitted everyone. He wanted Sadat to achieve a small victory, and then put both parties to the negotiating table. If there were no “victory”, then no one would talk to Sadat and ...

As for the current situation, many contradictions of an ethnic and religious nature are reflected. Speech, they say, is almost about the struggle of civilizations. I disagree with that. If this happened, then she would have acquired some new forms. But this does not happen. Of course, the logs in the fire throws the United States. But Obama is different from his predecessor, who made decisions sometimes spontaneously. However, in the United States are processes that do not depend on a particular president. In some circles there still believe that there is a unipolar world system. Although this is far from the case.

“They clearly lack the Soviet Union ...”

“They just consider themselves the strongest power.” However, this is the case: the United States in economics, military power surpasses all countries. However, this is not a guarantee of the existence of a unipolar world. There is the same China, which rose very much. Essentially, he already has the second economy in the world; in the foreseeable future, it may overtake the US economy. It looks like the world today. If you try to predict the future, I do not believe, as some political analysts suggest, that the world will also become bipolar - the United States and China, as I am convinced that China will not pose a military threat to the United States. I do not believe that China will rely on the military aspect in its relations with its neighbors.

- Do China and the United States complement each other today?

- Only economically. China, in my opinion, will never catch up with the United States in the development of science, there is a lot of "secondary" in it ...

- Americans are hard to catch up ...

- If at all possible ...

Well, as for us, we in the multipolar world took the right direction - we act in different vectors, in different directions.

- Is it possible to be friends with everyone in our world?

- It is impossible, but you can work. And need to. The world is very complicated.

- Some believe that the Third World War has long been underway. This refers to the Arab countries. And the Americans are waging this war.

- “The Arab Spring” is first of all unprofitable for the Americans. The previous regimes organized them because their leaders fought against Islamic extremism, against terrorists. "Spring" began spontaneously, but its distribution in Arab countries is already connected with the latest technologies - the Internet, television, and other communications. The Islamists "saddled" this process. Their organizations took control of the situation, and this must be considered.

In general, I believe that we pay little attention at the state level to situational analysis, although I am the head of such a Center at the Academy of Sciences.

- As far as I remember, when you became prime minister, you immediately asked the Academy of Sciences to analyze the situation and soon received a detailed document that greatly helped the country's withdrawal from the terrible crisis that Russia found itself in.

- Yes, it was.

- Is it different now?

- Situational analysis is a brainstorming, when experts express different points of view, there is a discussion. As a result, a document appears in which does not mean at all that only the majority opinion is reflected. It necessarily presents all points of view. We prepare analytical notes and present them to the leadership of the country. Last year, we received thanks for one of the analyzes of a specific situation. But now our documents come to the assistants, and already they decide whether to report them or not. I believe that when there is no close connection between the leaders of the country and the expert community, this is a major drawback.

- And who is to blame for this?

- Both sides must take the initiative, because we are talking about the fate of the country, and in this case it is unproductive to look for the guilty. Of course, the Academy could do much more if it were “attracted” to problems, more often they turned to it ... But the Academy itself must take the initiative ...

- And how did it happen that such a gap formed?

- Our neoliberals, as I call them, believe that the state should not be present anywhere at all, they say, everything must be privatized. Neoliberals, for example, are now expanding private enterprise in education, medicine and other areas related to the creation of human capital. I think this is deeply wrong and even vicious, as they eliminate the state from real life.

By the way, I was operated not so long ago by the same surgeons with whom the neoliberals are fighting. Although they are not inferior in their skills to the best surgeons in the world. When I needed the operation, I didn’t even have the idea to go somewhere. And they, poor fellows, give birth to their children in England or America, are treated in Germany.

- Let's go back to international affairs. So, familiar to you firsthand the Middle East. Your forecast?

- He is on the surface. If the existing regime finally collapses in Syria, then chaos will come. There will be a further destabilization of the entire region. Negatively, everything that happens can tell on our former Central Asian republics, especially after the Americans leave Afghanistan. There, too, there is a basis for a radical Islamist movement ...

- Now I ask as the head of foreign intelligence: what should she do today?

- It is necessary to study the situation and reveal the true picture to the management. We must, of course, know our opponents well. Intelligence is always necessary. By the way, as soon as I was appointed head of foreign intelligence, I was immediately invited to the United States. An exchange of visits took place. They told me, they say, “perestroika” happened, a new Russia appeared, why do you need intelligence? I agreed: let's reduce our intelligence services, but we will do it under mutual control. Plus, it is necessary to reduce the structure of NATO, as you will receive information from them. That was the end of the talk. Well, of course, intelligence is needed so that the policy was verified.

- And the last, topical: what will happen to the Academy of Sciences in the light of recent events?

- These our reformers claim the role of Peter the Great. Only he created the Academy of Sciences and the university, and they are trying to cover them.

I consider it wild nonsense if the RAS is liquidated. I remember how Americans were desperately jealous of us that we have it. But some people in the government want to take the American matrix as a model, their fundamental science is developing in the institutions that are located at universities, which is simply unacceptable for us.

I have already seen with my own eyes one document in which it was quite seriously proposed that the development of physics, chemistry, cosmonautics, rocket technology and other industries be determined by the government, and not by the RAS. And it's just awful for science.

The conversation was led by Vladimir Gubarev


PS In exactly the Day of Cosmonautics, the children of three orphanages in the Urals received a gift - computer classes. So ordered his Demidov Prize Yevgeny Maksimovich Primakov.
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  1. smel
    smel April 18 2013 06: 29 New
    15
    An interview with a very intelligent, decent and patriotic person, such as Primakov, is always interesting to read. But the journalist is clearly weak.
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 18 2013 06: 29 New
    +8
    A good article, the author of “+” and its hero, Evgeni Maksimovich Primakov, is also a person more “+” than “-”. Thank...
  3. fenix57
    fenix57 April 18 2013 06: 32 New
    14
    Hello.Real professional. That's who the government lacks for the POST OF THE HEAD OF THE MINISTERIAL COUNCIL! hi
    1. skeptic
      skeptic April 18 2013 10: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: fenix57
      Hello. A true professional. That's who the government lacks for the POST OF THE HEAD OF THE MINISTERIAL COUNCIL! hi


      Better the president, no offense to Putin. And Shoigu is the prime minister. Order would be restored faster and with less loss, for the population of Russia. About the oligarchic club, I do not say.
  4. CCA
    CCA April 18 2013 06: 45 New
    +7
    The Arab Spring ”is primarily disadvantageous to the Americans.
    Somewhat strange reasoning from Primakov ...?!? It turns out that the Americans are not profitable, but it is the Americans who sponsor and manage this spring ... It turns out that the garbage in the barn in the yard caught fire, you need to grab the canister with gasoline and burn the barn along with the garbage ...
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 April 18 2013 08: 07 New
      +6
      Yevgeny Maksimovich is a man of the old school, he says much less than he knows, and what he thinks is generally state secret. Thank you for the interview!
      "The Arab Spring" was primarily disadvantageous to the Americans. "
      In the long run it may not be profitable, but in the short term it can be very profitable, it all depends on the planning horizon.
      IMHO.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets April 18 2013 08: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: engineer74
        In the long run it may not be profitable, but in the short term it can be very profitable, it all depends on the planning horizon.

        Rather, it is disadvantageous in the short term, it lies on the surface and is obvious, but in the long term the tasks are completely different.
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 April 18 2013 09: 39 New
          +2
          Maybe I'm not the head of the Center for Situational Analysis of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
          smile
          Although I doubt that Egypt bombed Libya with money and bombs to their own detriment. what
          1. Kaa
            Kaa April 18 2013 12: 54 New
            +1
            Quote: engineer74
            Although I doubt that Egypt threw money and Libya with bombs at their own expense
            You are not the only one to think so, we will listen to the opinion “from the other side” - G. Kissinger - “The International Herald Tribune, 02.04.2012/XNUMX/XNUMX
            An equally important aspect of the “Arab spring” is the revision of the previously prevailing principles of foreign policy. While the United States is curtailing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, launched for national security reasons (which, however, is disputed) they simultaneously participate (although not so decisively) in the affairs of some other countries of the region in the name of humanitarian intervention. A consensus has been reached that the United States is obligated to morally support revolutionary movements in the Middle East as a kind of compensation for Cold War policies (invariably characterized as “erroneous”), when the States collaborated with undemocratic governments to achieve security goals. For the United States, the doctrine of general humanitarian intervention in the Middle East revolution will not be viable if it is not linked to the concept of US national security. When intervening, it is necessary to take into account the strategic importance and social cohesion of the country (including the possibility of restructuring its complex religious structure) and calculate what can really be built to replace the old regime. America should encourage regional aspirations for political change. At the same time, it is unreasonable to hope for the same result in each country, placed in the same time frame. America will also be able to defend its values, quietly developing tactics of action, making public statements, which are very likely to create a feeling of siege. This is not a rejection of the principle of adapting the position of the United States depending on each particular country and adjusting it to other relevant factors, including national security. Moreover, this is the essence of creative foreign policy. If the process culminates in the arrival of either too weak or too anti-Western regional governments, unable to support these tasks and no longer interested in American partnerships, this should raise concerns about American strategic interests, regardless of the electoral mechanisms by which these governments came to power. The United States must be prepared to deal with democratically elected Islamic governments. But at the same time, nothing restricts them in implementing the standard principles of traditional foreign policy, when the position is determined by the correspondence of the steps of governments to their own interests.During the Arab upheaval, the US has so far acted successfullywithout becoming an obstacle to revolutionary transformation. http://kavpolit.com/o-roli-ssha-v-arabskoj-vesne/
  5. Djubal
    Djubal April 18 2013 06: 59 New
    +8
    All these "springs" are sponsored by the United States quite deliberately ... even if the Islamists later replace the Amers in the Arab countries, then a bunch of macaques with machine guns in the world arena America is not a rival or a threat, but with a developing republic that has the resources and the ability to defend them to reckon ... that’s the goal, to deprive the Middle East of development, to leave it in the Stone Age. Let the drugs grow and push to Russia, and run to shoot there .. You can also throw some money to make it run better. This is not even a "cold war" but quite a hot one, only slightly veiled.
  6. Svatdevostator
    Svatdevostator April 18 2013 07: 01 New
    +3
    And again, these neoliberals so that they succeed. Primakov success, pleased computer classes for children.
  7. soldat1945
    soldat1945 April 18 2013 07: 23 New
    12
    The most competent man is a pity that he is already an adult, his book “The Middle East”, one of the most profound and correct from the analyzed works about the Arab world, and “years in politics”, open up the inner kitchen of world political processes, long life to him and as much as possible blessings to bring to our god-protected homeland love love !
  8. AlexW
    AlexW April 18 2013 08: 15 New
    +4
    But now our documents are being sent to the assistants, and they already decide whether to report them or not. I believe that when there is no close relationship between the country's leaders and the expert community, this is a major drawback.Our management is bronzing. EMP is tactfully criticizing, but it would have to be tougher.
  9. Circle
    Circle April 18 2013 08: 31 New
    +2
    May God grant Eugene Maksimovich health and long summers! This will be of great benefit to the country.
  10. Gorchakov
    Gorchakov April 18 2013 08: 41 New
    +6
    I would like to see just such a person as Primakov on the prime minister’s chair near Putin, and not the impudent, loving and hearing only “iPhone” ...
  11. Garrin
    Garrin April 18 2013 08: 47 New
    +7

    - These our reformers claim the role of Peter the Great.

    I always talked about this with almost the same words. DAM is especially prone to reform itch. The worst thing is that in pursuit of the satisfaction of my vanity and pride, I would even say - self-love, they cause irreparable harm to our country.


    - Our neoliberals, as I call them, believe that the state should not be present anywhere at all, they say, everything must be privatized. Neoliberals, for example, are now expanding private enterprise in education, medicine and other areas related to the creation of human capital. I think this is deeply wrong and even vicious, as they eliminate the state from real life.


    And here it is for sure - the fifth column.
  12. fenix57
    fenix57 April 18 2013 08: 59 New
    0
    Quote: AlexW
    But now our documents are being sent to the assistants, and they already decide whether to report them or not.

    Yes, this is a real misfortune and the solution of the question (according to the document) by and large depends on the whim of the assistant, on his mood, on his attitude to the "master".
  13. vladeinord
    vladeinord April 18 2013 09: 07 New
    +2
    A real man and a patriot. I want to believe that there will be more and more of these in power.
    1. alexander rus.
      alexander rus. April 18 2013 16: 50 New
      0
      "Let’s give the country coal, even small, but to the x-th!"
  14. ImPerts
    ImPerts April 18 2013 09: 18 New
    +1
    When Primakov became prime minister, salaries began to be paid almost on time and almost constantly, it seemed that after default there would be nothing to pay, but no. They put things in order, money was found.
  15. pensioner
    pensioner April 18 2013 09: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: fenix57
    That's who the government lacks for the POST OF THE HEAD OF THE MINISTERIAL COUNCIL!

    Would be younger - almost an ideal president. For decades.
  16. Strashila
    Strashila April 18 2013 09: 35 New
    +1
    “Our neoliberals, as I call them, believe that the state should not be present anywhere at all, they say, everything should be privatized ... I consider this deeply false and even vicious, since they eliminate the state from real life.” a state ... then another state will take its place ... the world does not tolerate emptiness.
  17. sergius60
    sergius60 April 18 2013 09: 54 New
    +1
    If in the government there are those who want to butt with SUCH BISON, it’s time to fold on bandages and brilliant green gentlemen "liberals".
  18. rodevaan
    rodevaan April 18 2013 10: 05 New
    +3
    Evgeni Primakov is perhaps one of the very few truly literate, smart and patriotic politicians of the 90s who did not allow himself to be deceived and who, to the best of his abilities and capabilities, tried not to let the prestige and interests of the country drop below the sewage system.
    I respect this person very much and I think that the more such politicians will be in our country, and not the liberoid pro-Western mongrels, the stronger and more energetic we will defend our interests and the more we will be reckoned with without exception, including the main nursery shit democracy.
  19. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 18 2013 10: 35 New
    +2
    It is hard to disagree that E.M. Primakov, one of the few capital leaders left over from the post-Soviet elite.

    Of interest is the incident that occurred in 90's and shows some moments of communication between Primakov and Putin.

    The Prime Minister (E.M. Primakov), strongly disliked the director of the FSB, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. The conflict began with a strange story. E Primakov summoned the FSB director V. Putin to the White House. We talked about the current moment, about some problems, well, in general, what the prime minister and the FSB director usually talk about. And in the end, Yevgeny Maksimovich unexpectedly asked for wiretapping of Yabloko leader Grigory Yavlinsky. Vladimir Vladimirovich was very surprised. And he said that it was unacceptable. Yavlinsky - the leader of a large deputy fraction in the Duma, a politician. To draw the FSB into political surveillance is wrong, harmful, and most importantly, illegal. And no matter who will ask him about it, the prime minister or president, he will not do this. And he is ready to resign if someone considers his position unacceptable.

    And another interesting thing. When V. Putin became president, he never recalled this episode to E. Primakov. Evgeny Maksimovich headed the faction in the Duma, then became the head of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Russia, which he still heads. And he always enjoyed the support of the second president.


    Source - http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/475163/

    E. Primakov, at one time, unequivocally supported Putin's candidacy for president.
    1. wax
      wax April 18 2013 11: 00 New
      +1
      I think it was a banal check for lice in the light of Putin's possible nomination higher, because Primakov had nothing to do with Yavlinsky, Yavlinsky did not have that level. Putin was either glade or really stood for legality. This can be asked only from Putin himself.
      1. jjj
        jjj April 18 2013 22: 01 New
        +2
        For operational purposes, they listened. And then two scouts played a scene for the ears in the walls. Then the same seven-bank country rule
  20. fenix57
    fenix57 April 18 2013 12: 07 New
    0
    Quote: VadimSt
    And another interesting thing. When V. Putin became president, he never recalled this episode to E. Primakov. Evgeny Maksimovich headed the faction in the Duma, then became the head of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Russia, which he still heads. And he always enjoyed the support of the second president.

    How much about VadimSt in this world that we do not dream of.. hi
  21. Vtel
    Vtel April 18 2013 15: 16 New
    +4
    The "Arab Spring" is primarily disadvantageous to the Americans. The previous regimes suited them because their leaders fought Islamic extremism and terrorists. “Spring” began spontaneously, but its distribution in the Arab countries is already connected with the latest technologies - the Internet, television, and other communications. The Islamists "saddled" this process.

    Oh oh It is a pity this has not heard Muar Gaddafi before. But is it not their work, the color revolutions, the Arab Spring. “Zion’s sages = not stupid people to substitute themselves at once. They have the principle - from the quiet and preferably with the wrong hands - just some kind of liquid Chaos.
    1. Fin
      Fin April 18 2013 16: 37 New
      +1
      It also seems to me that Yevgeny Maksimovich is not saying anything here. I will never believe that the Americans were out of action. And who was interested in dividing the state of Gaddafi, in their oil? And Syria also "rebelled" on the Internet and thousands of armed bandits crossed the border? Then Iran will rise and 70% of the world's oil production with the Saudis. And then you can dictate the conditions to everyone.
    2. alexander rus.
      alexander rus. April 18 2013 17: 04 New
      0
      "so-so-so ..! -" vidpovov coulemet. Okay, sir!
  22. Begemot
    Begemot April 18 2013 17: 32 New
    0
    98 year, the country defaulted, Kinder Prime Minister is something absurd, absurd, a complete mess in the economy,
    sensation of collapse. Primakov is appointed prime minister and everything very quickly falls into place, without tantrums, competently and in a businesslike manner. And in everything else, Evgeni Maksimovich proved himself to be a highly professional. It is these people, not Gazprom, that are the national treasure. I take off my hat, God forbid long summers and health.
  23. aviamed90
    aviamed90 April 18 2013 17: 57 New
    0
    Primakov, of course, is a smart man, but he is not Nostradamus. And about the Americans a streamlined answer. Afraid of offending them?
    I take his answers to questions as his personal opinion.
    1. biglow
      biglow April 18 2013 19: 16 New
      0
      Primakov’s analysis, as always on top. You won’t drink the experience
  24. valokordin
    valokordin April 18 2013 19: 48 New
    +1
    Stop admiring E. Primakov — he is a product of the late period of the Soviet era, when the country's political leaders destroyed the Communist Party, the Soviet Union. Evgeni Primakov was among them. He did not fight for the preservation of the USSR and, as an intelligent pragmatic person, was able to line up in a new reality and gain a profitable place. He could not confront the aggression against Yugoslavia, only made a figure of higher diplomatic aerobatics over the Atlantic. He did not fight with EBN, but provided him with information, i.e. helped the alcoholic sit in the president’s chair. Maksimych does not pull on the savior of the fatherland, he is smart, experienced, like that wise owl looking at everything from its tree. Give advice, do not blink smart eyes. Do not admire, rather he is a friend of Israel and NATO, but he also pity Russia in his own way.
    1. sibircat
      sibircat April 18 2013 23: 03 New
      0
      Quote: valokordin
      He did not fight for the preservation of the USSR and, as an intelligent pragmatic person, was able to line up in a new reality and gain a profitable place.

      Do you think it would be wiser to act like Pugo and Akhromeev? So he was not part of the Civil Code emergency.
      He is truly a smart, honest and experienced person. And Russia loves no less than you and me. And his decency, perhaps, would be enough for the entire current government with Medvedev together.
  25. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 18 2013 21: 18 New
    0
    Yes, the grandfather in some opinions let such a fog. One feels the old school, so that neither his strangers nor Cho will understand, so he is in active work and it pleases.
  26. APASUS
    APASUS April 18 2013 21: 40 New
    +1
    The "Arab Spring" is primarily disadvantageous to the Americans. The previous regimes suited them because their leaders fought Islamic extremism and terrorists.

    In this part, I would argue with Primakov!
    Americans are trying to create a predictable enemy by pursuing two goals.
    The first is the formation under the roof of the same al-Qaeda, the anti-American front and can even put the same Saudi Arabia at the head !!! With which it is clear how to fight !!! ...... not like with motley groups around the world and inside the country!
    The second is the formation of a pool of allies in the war against Muslim terrorism. Where countries that are clearly not sympathetic to the United States (Russia, China, India, etc.) can invite, but they will not be left with a choice !!
  27. dark_65
    dark_65 April 19 2013 19: 35 New
    0
    Education is just like air is needed, and it is literature, history, georaphy of our country .... and we are simply stupidly artificially, a person without roots is scary.
  28. elmir15
    elmir15 April 25 2013 02: 04 New
    +4
    Oh, we would be in the presidency or in the premieres of a person on a scale of Primakov