Military Review

Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans

324
Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans

It’s not enough to kill a Russian soldier, he must also be thrown down!

Frederick the Second Great


Glory to Russian weapons knows no bounds. The Russian soldier suffered what the soldiers of the armies of other countries never tolerated and would not suffer. This is evidenced by the entries in the memoirs of soldiers and officers of the Wehrmacht, in which they admired the actions of the Red Army:

“Close communication with nature allows Russians to move freely in the fog at night, through forests and swamps. They are not afraid of the dark, endless forests and cold. They are not in the wonder of winter, when the temperature drops to minus 45. A Siberian, who can be partially considered as an Asian, is even tougher, even stronger ... We already experienced this during the First World War, when we had to deal with the Siberian army corps. ”

"For a European accustomed to small territories, the distances in the East seem endless ... The horror is aggravated by the melancholic, monotonous character of the Russian landscape, which acts depressingly, especially in the dark autumn and tediously long winter. The psychological influence of this country on the average German soldier was very strong. He felt insignificant, lost in these vast expanses "

“The Russian soldier prefers hand-to-hand combat. His ability, without flinching, to endure hardships causes true surprise. Such is the Russian soldier, whom we have learned and for whom imbued respect a quarter of a century ago. ”

“It was very difficult for us to get a clear idea of ​​equipping the Red Army ... Hitler refused to believe that Soviet industrial production could be equal to German. We had little information regarding Russians tanks. We had no idea how many tanks per month Russian industry is capable of producing.

It was difficult to even get the cards, as the Russians kept them under a big secret. The maps we had were often incorrect and misleading.

We also didn’t have exact data about the combat power of the Russian army. Those of us who fought in Russia during the First World War thought that it was great, and those who did not know the new enemy were inclined to underestimate it. ”

“The behavior of the Russian troops, even in the first battles, was in striking contrast with the behavior of the Poles and the Western allies during the defeat. Even surrounded by Russians continued stubborn fighting. Where there were no roads, the Russians in most cases remained inaccessible. They have always tried to break through to the east ... Our Russian entourage has rarely been successful. ”

“From Field Marshal von Bock to the soldier, everyone hoped that we would soon march through the streets of the Russian capital. Hitler even created a special demining team, which was to destroy the Kremlin.

When we came close to Moscow, the mood of our commanders and troops suddenly changed dramatically. With surprise and disappointment, we discovered in October and early November that the defeated Russians did not cease to exist as a military force. In recent weeks, the resistance of the enemy has intensified, and the tension of battles has increased with each passing day ... ”

Chief of Staff of the Wehrmacht 4 Army, General Gunter Blumentrit


“Russians don't give up. The explosion, another one, everything is quiet for a minute, and then they open fire again ... ”
“We watched the Russians with amazement. It seems that they didn’t care that their main forces were crushed ... ”
“Loaves of bread had to be chopped up with an ax. A few lucky ones managed to acquire Russian uniforms ... "
“My God, what did these Russians intend to do with us? We'll all die here! .. ”

From the memories of German soldiers




“From the very beginning, the Russians showed themselves to be first-class warriors, and our success in the first months of the war was simply explained by better preparation. Having gained combat experience, they became first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional stubbornness, had amazing endurance ... "

Colonel-General (later Field Marshal) von Kleist


“It often happened that the Soviet soldiers raised their hands to show that they were surrendering to us, and after our infantrymen approached them, they again resorted to arms; or the wounded man feigned death, and then fired at our soldiers from the rear. ”

General von Manstein (also a future field marshal)


“It should be noted the stubbornness of individual Russian units in battle. There have been cases when the garrisons of the pillboxes blew themselves up together with the pillboxes, not wanting to surrender. ” (Writing from 24 Jun.)
"Information from the front confirms that the Russians fight everywhere until the last person ... It is striking that when seizing artillery batteries it.p.v few surrender captivity." (29 Jun.)
“Fights with Russians are extremely persistent. Only a small number of prisoners have been captured. ” (July 4)

Diary of General Halder


“The uniqueness of the country and the uniqueness of the character of the Russians lend the campaign particular specifics. The first serious opponent "

Field Marshal Brauchitsch (July 1941 of the Year)


“About a hundred of our tanks, of which about a third were T-IV, took their initial positions for delivering a counterattack. From three sides we fired at the Russian iron monsters, but all was in vain ...

Layered on the front and in depth, the Russian giants were getting closer and closer. One of them approached our tank, hopelessly stuck in a swampy pond. Without any hesitation, the black monster rode around the tank and crushed it into the dirt with its tracks.

At this point, the 150-mm howitzer arrived. While the commander of the gunners warned about the approaching tanks of the enemy, the gun opened fire, but again, to no avail.

One of the Soviet tanks approached the howitzer on 100 meters. The gunners opened fire on him and got hit - it's like lightning struck. The tank stopped. “We knocked him out,” the gunners breathed a sigh of relief. Suddenly, someone from the calculation of the gun screamed heart-rending: “He went again!” Indeed, the tank came to life and began to approach the gun. Another minute, and the tank's shiny metal caterpillars smashed a howitzer into the ground like a toy. Having settled down with the weapon, the tank continued on its way as if nothing had happened. ”

The commander of the 41 th Wehrmacht Tank Corps, General Ringarth


Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. The stubbornness with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol is akin to a certain animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or upbringing. Russians have always been like that and most likely they will always remain so. ”

Josef Goebbels
Originator:
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  1. avia12005
    avia12005 April 18 2013 08: 03
    65
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???
    1. Greyfox
      Greyfox April 18 2013 08: 08
      86
      According to the memoirs of Guderian, Middeldorf, Mellenthin, Manstein and Tippelskirch
      1) Hitler disturbed us. Hitler was a fool ... ac. The German soldier was rulez. The German commander was like Great Frederick, but without vicious inclinations.
      2) Russians overwhelmed us with meat. The Russians had a lot of meat. The Russian soldier is a child of nature, he eats what he cannot run away from him, sleeps standing up, like a horse, and knows how to leak. The author has repeatedly witnessed how entire Russian tank armies were leaking through the front line, and nothing betrayed their presence - it would seem that yesterday, the usual artillery preparation, bombing, the Russian offensive, and suddenly once !!! - in the rear is already the Russian tank army.
      3) SS sometimes went a little too far. That is, if everything was limited to the usual robberies, executions, violence and destruction that the German soldier would sometimes inflict from an excess of youthful force, much more people would accept the new order with pleasure.
      4) The Russians had a T-34 tank. It was not fair. We did not have such a tank.
      5) The Russians had a lot of anti-tank guns. Each soldier had an anti-tank gun - he hid with her in the pits, in the hollows of trees, in the grass, under the roots of trees.
      6) The Russians had many Mongols and Turkmen. Mongols and Turkmen, backed up by the commissioners is a terrible thing.
      7) The Russians had commissars. Commissars is a terrible thing. By definition. Most of the commissioners were Jews. Even the Jews. We have not destroyed our Jews in a businesslike way. Himmler was also a fool ... ac.
      8) The Russians used a dishonest method - they pretended to give up, and then - RRA! and shot the German soldier in the back. Once, a Russian tank corps, pretended to surrender, shot a whole heavy tank battalion in the back.
      9) The Russians killed German soldiers. In general, it was a terrible zapadlo, because honestly, it was the German soldiers who had to kill the Russians! Russians are all goats .. ly, without exception.
      10) Allies betrayed us. In a sense, the Americans and the British.



      1. Black
        Black April 18 2013 12: 55
        51
        Quote: Greyfox
        Russians killed German soldiers.


        This is finally below the belt !!!!

        But seriously, according to the recollections of our veterans, the German is a worthy rival, a good warrior. the higher the price of our victory.
        1. dmitreach
          dmitreach April 18 2013 16: 46
          0
          Yes we are.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac April 19 2013 05: 09
          27
          Quote: Chen
          But seriously, according to the recollections of our veterans, the German is a worthy rival, a good warrior. the higher the price of our victory.

          To exaggerate the greatness of the enemy in order to exalt is an old propaganda device.
          The Third Reich with its allies had more than one and a half times superiority over the USSR in people, in industrial potential it surpassed the USSR several times, had a more trained army, and what was the result? Shameful drain! In addition, the fascists killed the civilian population in the most dignified manner, robbed, raped, used slave labor ... and many more "worthy" deeds. Actually Europeans in our time have remained "worthy".
          1. Mohomax
            Mohomax April 19 2013 11: 22
            +9
            Glory to those heroes who fought for our country for the children and all of us so that there would be no domination over us but freedom. What no, but still freedom, bought by inhuman efforts
          2. Deathfornazism
            Deathfornazism 21 June 2013 23: 11
            -2
            Where are we? Where is our dignity? and stop the Germans called fascists
            1. Alone
              Alone 27 June 2013 16: 06
              +1
              Live in your Turkey and do not meddle in the affairs of a great country.
        3. zao74
          zao74 April 19 2013 11: 46
          +3
          They conquered all of Europe ... And we - them.
          1. A. Yaga
            A. Yaga April 19 2013 23: 21
            21
            And I liked it:
            Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. The persistence with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol is akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or education. Russians have always been like that and most likely will always be like that»

            Josef Goebbels
            1. Denzel13
              Denzel13 April 23 2013 22: 11
              +4
              Yes, these words need to be written on each border post of the Russian Federation.
              1. VADIMKRSK
                VADIMKRSK April 24 2013 19: 03
                +2
                Nobody Dares to Attack Russia! BUT GET MUCH WISHING. TO INCREASE YOUR SIGNIFICANCE IN YOUR OWN OR SENATE.
        4. GSH-18
          GSH-18 April 22 2013 19: 17
          +6
          I can not add another fact told to me by my mother. They then lived with their whole family in Kerch. Everyone knows that Kerch several times passed from the Soviet troops to the Germans and vice versa. My aunt (then still a little girl) had severe inflammation of the ears and pus flowed out of them, the child cried all the time. So, my grandmother with a young aunt in her arms on the street was seen by a German military doctor, she called out-hey uterus, stop not to be afraid! He examined the child and gave them a bottle of ointment. This ointment helped a lot. Grandma also used it after the 45th in similar cases.
          So that. The Germans were different.
          1. lyuboyan
            lyuboyan April 23 2013 22: 59
            0
            Such stories had to be heard more than once. Moreover, from relatives and friends, in Ukraine, Voronezh, Moscow region. I was always surprised and now, for some reason I don’t really believe it. I don’t know why, but these stories seem to me a legend. They look very much alike, like they are written off under tracing paper. Everywhere there is a small child and a kind German doctor saving him from a deadly disease. I do not affirm anything. But I doubt it.
            1. Maverick78
              Maverick78 3 November 2018 15: 18
              0
              Do not hesitate ... and not only normal doctors came across. If all Germans were Nazis, then most of us would not be. But not even the Nazis came here for living space, so they got what they deserved.
          2. sasha.28blaga
            sasha.28blaga April 24 2013 05: 50
            +2
            Germans may be different, but fascists are the same
            1. Alex
              Alex 1 September 2013 22: 14
              +3

              The Germans were different.

              Germans may be different, but fascists are the same


              The Germans, of course, were different. The more disgusting fascism will look. Sometimes you even wonder how the people of Goethe, Beethoven, Bach and Heine could think of Auschwitz, Dachau and Treblinka. Indeed, "the dream of reason gives birth to monsters."
      2. Alexey K.
        Alexey K. April 18 2013 14: 10
        29
        Addition to the above.
        “1941 is through the eyes of the Germans. Birch crosses instead of iron "English historian Robert Kershaw.

        June 21 evening

        Non-commissioned officer Helmut Kolakowski recalls: “Late in the evening, our platoon was assembled in sheds and announced:“ Tomorrow we have to enter the battle with world Bolshevism. ” Personally, I was simply amazed, it was like snow on my head, but what about the non-aggression pact between Germany and Russia? All the time I recalled the issue of Deutsche Wohenschau, which I saw at home and which reported on the contract. I could not even imagine how we would go to war in the Soviet Union. ” The order of the Führer caused surprise and bewilderment of the rank and file. “You could say we were bewildered by what we heard,” admitted Lothar Fromm, a spotter. “We all, I emphasize this, were amazed and not at all ready for such a thing.” But perplexity was immediately replaced by relief from an incomprehensible and languid expectation on the eastern borders of Germany. Experienced soldiers who had captured almost all of Europe began to discuss when the campaign against the USSR would end. The words of Benno Zeizer, who was still studying for a military driver, reflect the general mood: “All this will end in some three weeks, we were told, others were more careful in their forecasts - they believed that in 2-3 months. There was one who thought that this would last a whole year, but we laughed him: “And how much did it take to deal with the Poles? And with France? Have you forgotten? ”

        But not everyone was so optimistic. Erich Mende, the lieutenant from the 8th Silesian Infantry Division, recalls the conversation with his superior in these last minutes of peace. “My commander was two times older than me, and he already had to fight with the Russians near Narva in 1917, when he was a lieutenant. "Here, in these vast expanses, we will find our death like Napoleon," he did not hide pessimism ... Mende, remember this hour, it marks the end of the old Germany. "

        At 3 hours and 15 minutes, the advanced German units crossed the border of the USSR. Johann Danzer, an anti-tank gunner, recalls: “On the very first day, as soon as we went on the attack, one of ours shot himself from his own weapon. Clutching a rifle between his knees, he inserted the barrel into his mouth and pressed the trigger. So for him the war ended and all the horrors associated with it. "
        1. Alexey K.
          Alexey K. April 18 2013 14: 12
          30
          June 22, Brest

          The capture of the Brest Fortress was entrusted to the 45th Wehrmacht infantry division, numbering 17 thousand personnel. The garrison of the fortress - about 8 thousand. In the first hours of the battle there were reports on the successful advance of German troops and reports on the seizure of bridges and fortress structures. At 4 hours 42 minutes, "50 prisoners were taken, all in the same underwear, their war found in bunks." But by 10:50 the tone of the combat documents had changed: "The battle for the seizure of the fortress is fierce - numerous losses." Already 2 battalion commanders, 1 company commander were killed, the commander of one of the regiments was seriously wounded.

          “Soon, somewhere between 5.30 and 7.30 in the morning, it became completely clear that the Russians were desperately fighting in the rear of our advanced units. Their infantry, with the support of 35–40 tanks and armored vehicles that appeared on the territory of the fortress, formed several centers of defense. Enemy snipers fired from behind trees, roofs and cellars, which caused heavy casualties among officers and junior commanders. ”

          “Where the Russians managed to get out or smoke, new forces soon appeared. They crawled out of basements, houses, from sewer pipes and other temporary shelters, fired, and our losses grew steadily. ”

          A summary of the Wehrmacht High Command (OKW) for June 22 reported: "It seems that the enemy, after initial confusion, begins to show increasingly stubborn resistance." The OKW chief of staff, Halder, agrees with this: “After the initial“ tetanus ”caused by the surprise of the attack, the enemy went over to active action.”

          For the soldiers of the 45th division of the Wehrmacht, the beginning of the war turned out to be completely bleak: 21 officers and 290 non-commissioned officers (sergeants), not counting the soldiers, died on its very first day. In the first day of fighting in Russia, the division lost almost as many soldiers and officers as in all six weeks of the French campaign.
          1. Alexey K.
            Alexey K. April 18 2013 14: 16
            23
            About Russian soldiers

            The initial idea of ​​the population of Russia was determined by the German ideology of that time, which considered the Slavs to be "subhuman." However, the experience of the first battles made adjustments to these ideas.

            Major General Hoffmann von Waldau, chief of staff of the Luftwaffe command 9 days after the start of the war, wrote in his diary: "The quality level of Soviet pilots is much higher than expected ... Fierce resistance, its mass character does not correspond to our initial assumptions." This was confirmed by the first air rams. Kershaw quotes the words of one Colonel of the Luftwaffe: "Soviet pilots are fatalists, they fight to the end without any hope of victory or even survival, driven either by their own fanaticism or fear of the commissars waiting for them on earth." It is worth noting that on the first day of the war with the Soviet Union, the Luftwaffe lost up to 300 aircraft. Never before had the German Air Force suffered such large, one-time losses.

            In Germany, the radio shouted that the shells of "German tanks not only set fire to, but also flashed Russian cars through and through." But the soldiers told each other about Russian tanks, which could not be pierced even by point blank shots - the shells ricocheted from the armor. Lieutenant Helmut Ritgen from the 6th Panzer Division admitted that in a clash with new and unknown Russian tanks: “... the very concept of tank warfare has changed, KV vehicles have marked a completely different level of armament, armor protection and weight of tanks. German tanks suddenly went into the category of exclusively anti-personnel weapons ... "Tanker of the 12th Panzer Division Hans Becker:" On the Eastern Front, I met people who can be called a special race. Already the first attack turned into a battle not for life, but for death. ”

            The anti-tank gunner recalls what an indelible impression on him and his comrades was made by the desperate resistance of the Russians in the first hours of the war: “During the attack, we stumbled upon a light Russian T-26 tank, we immediately clicked it directly from the 37-graph paper. When we began to approach, a Russian leaned out of the hatch of the tower to the waist and opened fire on us with a pistol. It soon became clear that he was without legs, they were torn off when the tank was hit. And despite this, he fired at us with a pistol! ”

            The author of the book “1941 through the Eyes of the Germans” quotes the words of an officer who served in a tank unit on the site of Army Group Center, who shared his opinion with a war correspondent, Curicio Malaparte: “He reasoned like a soldier, avoiding epithets and metaphors, limiting himself only to argumentation, directly related to the issues discussed. “We almost did not take prisoners, because the Russians always fought to the last soldier. They did not give up. They cannot be hardened with ours ... ”

            The following episodes made a depressing impression on the advancing troops: after a successful breakthrough of the frontier defense, the 3rd battalion of the 18th infantry regiment of Army Group Center, numbering 800 people, was fired upon by a unit of 5 soldiers. “I did not expect anything like this,” Major Neuhof admitted to his battalion doctor, the battalion commander. “It is sheer suicide to attack the forces of the battalion with five fighters.”

            In mid-November 1941, one infantry officer of the 7th Panzer Division, when his unit burst into Russian-defended positions in a village near the Lama River, described the resistance of the Red Army. “You just won’t believe this until you see it with your own eyes. The soldiers of the Red Army, even burning alive, continued to shoot from the blazing houses. "
            1. Alexey K.
              Alexey K. April 18 2013 14: 19
              22
              Winter of the 41st

              The proverb “Better three French campaigns than one Russian” was quickly adopted by German troops. “Here we lacked comfortable French beds and were struck by the monotony of the area.” "The prospect of being in Leningrad turned into an endless sitting in numbered trenches."

              The high losses of the Wehrmacht, the lack of winter uniforms and the unpreparedness of German equipment for military operations in the conditions of the Russian winter gradually allowed the Soviet troops to seize the initiative. For a three-week period from November 15 to December 5 1941, the Russian Air Force made 15 840 sorties, while the Luftwaffe only 3500, which further demoralized the enemy.

              The situation was similar in the tank forces: Lieutenant Colonel Grampe from the headquarters of the 1st Panzer Division reported that his tanks were sky-ready due to low temperatures (minus 35 degrees). “Even the towers are jammed, optical devices are covered with hoarfrost, and machine guns are capable of firing single shots only ...” In some units, frostbite losses reached 70%.

              Joseph Deck from the 71st artillery regiment recalls: “We had to chop loaves of bread with an ax. First aid packs petrified, gasoline froze, optics failed, and hands clung to metal. In the cold, the wounded died a few minutes later. A few lucky ones managed to acquire Russian uniforms taken from the corpses warmed by them. ”

              Corporal Fritz Siegel wrote in his letter home on December 6: “My God, what did these Russians plan to do with us? It would be nice if up there at least they listened to us, otherwise we all will have to die here. ”
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 19 2013 05: 19
                13
                Quote: Alexey K.
                The high losses of the Wehrmacht, the lack of winter uniforms and the unpreparedness of German equipment for military operations in the conditions of the Russian winter gradually allowed the Soviet troops to seize the initiative.

                By winter, the fighting units of the Wehrmacht lost an average of 70-80% of the personnel, and the presence or absence of warm clothes did not play a role here. In general, the reference to the cold winter does not hold water. They were going to somehow hold the territory to the Urals? The Wehrmacht was ready for winter as a natural phenomenon. The Wehrmacht was not ready for the winter to suffer such high losses.
                1. Denzel13
                  Denzel13 April 23 2013 22: 28
                  +3
                  That's right, for some reason, Western historians and memoirists believe that in the winter in the USSR only Germans and their hangers-on were freezing, only German troops were mired in the mud, in spring and autumn. They do not take into account at all that their opponents faced similar weather conditions, that is, our army. Just a dumb desire to brighten up your defeat.
                2. VADIMKRSK
                  VADIMKRSK April 24 2013 19: 29
                  0
                  WHAT ARE THE GERMANS GOING TO DO IN RUSSIA? Lying on the stoves and drinking moonshine? THE CAUCASUS WITH OIL WAS NEEDED THEM. ABOUT OUR TIME SIMILAR SO SUCH ...
              2. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker April 19 2013 12: 31
                10
                Quote: Alexey K.
                The high losses of the Wehrmacht, the lack of winter uniforms and the unpreparedness of German equipment for military operations in the conditions of the Russian winter gradually allowed the Soviet troops to seize the initiative. For a three-week period from November 15 to December 5 1941, the Russian Air Force made 15 840 sorties, while the Luftwaffe only 3500, which further demoralized the enemy.

                1. Bro, do you, do you believe in "fairy tales about General Winter"?
                2. The theme of the absence of "own" aviation in the sky during the "brutal" Soviet, are found in the Wehrmacht's memoirs from the first months of the war.
                1. lazy
                  lazy April 20 2013 17: 22
                  +3
                  what is interesting, our veterans talk about German domination and our absence. why is that?
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker April 20 2013 19: 16
                    +4
                    Quote: lazy
                    what is interesting, our veterans talk about German domination and our absence. why is that?

                    Such moments are "engraved in memory" for life ...
                    And someone can "sachkanut" - they did not give, they say, the damned enemy falcons to perform a feat.
                2. Raiven
                  Raiven April 23 2013 22: 37
                  0
                  tell me what didn’t influence, get into the Finnish how many soldiers froze in the snow
          2. brelok
            brelok April 19 2013 05: 37
            +2
            The 45th division ceased to exist near Brest. It was re-formed by the fall of 41.
      3. smile
        smile April 18 2013 19: 03
        +5
        Greyfox
        Based on my experience, I came to the conclusion that the most honest estimates are contained in diaries not taken for publication, taken from murdered Germans — a striking difference with memoirs — no Chernukh’s general characteristic of memoirs ... previously published occasionally .. if anyone has links- discard please ...
        1. Denzel13
          Denzel13 April 23 2013 22: 43
          +3
          I read a certain Hans Refeld "To hell with" Great Germany "", so there are often such things like this ".... we have been continuously advancing on the West for almost a week ...". Moreover, it took place at the end of 1944. That is, even years later, these freaks find it difficult to admit on paper that it was an escape from the advancing Red Army.
          I would also like to add that this pretzel wrote a diary throughout the war, but published only the part that begins in 1943, when they began to tumble over them and the whole text is directly permeated with grief about the poor and unfortunate soldiers of the SS division and peaceful German residents. About the first years of the war, he just wrote in passing that "... some of our soldiers treated the peaceful Russian residents badly" - such a desire arose to take this memoirist to Mamayev Kurgan on May 9, let him tell our veterans what it means to be "treated badly."
      4. rodevaan
        rodevaan April 19 2013 11: 47
        +7
        Quote: Greyfox
        According to the memoirs of Guderian, Middeldorf, Mellenthin, Manstein and Tippelskirch
        1) Hitler disturbed us. Hitler was a fool ... ac. The German soldier was rulez. The German commander was like Great Frederick, but without vicious inclinations.
        2) Russians overwhelmed us with meat. The Russians had a lot of meat. The Russian soldier is a child of nature, he eats what he cannot run away from him, sleeps standing up, like a horse, and knows how to leak. The author has repeatedly witnessed how entire Russian tank armies were leaking through the front line, and nothing betrayed their presence - it would seem that yesterday, the usual artillery preparation, bombing, the Russian offensive, and suddenly once !!! - in the rear is already the Russian tank army.
        3) SS sometimes went a little too far. That is, if everything was limited to the usual robberies, executions, violence and destruction that the German soldier would sometimes inflict from an excess of youthful force, much more people would accept the new order with pleasure.
        4) The Russians had a T-34 tank. It was not fair. We did not have such a tank.
        5) The Russians had a lot of anti-tank guns. Each soldier had an anti-tank gun - he hid with her in the pits, in the hollows of trees, in the grass, under the roots of trees.
        6) The Russians had many Mongols and Turkmen. Mongols and Turkmen, backed up by the commissioners is a terrible thing.
        7) The Russians had commissars. Commissars is a terrible thing. By definition. Most of the commissioners were Jews. Even the Jews. We have not destroyed our Jews in a businesslike way. Himmler was also a fool ... ac.
        8) The Russians used a dishonest method - they pretended to give up, and then - RRA! and shot the German soldier in the back. Once, a Russian tank corps, pretended to surrender, shot a whole heavy tank battalion in the back.
        9) The Russians killed German soldiers. In general, it was a terrible zapadlo, because honestly, it was the German soldiers who had to kill the Russians! Russians are all goats .. ly, without exception.
        10) Allies betrayed us. In a sense, the Americans and the British.





        - We are laughing at it! But it is precisely this way, and not otherwise, verbatim, that the dermocratic media and other horns of the West-shaped cattle are hammered together with the history of World War II and World War II! Yes, and we almost brought this to the shit-degenerates in the 90s! Only Rezuns and Sokolovs are worth it, and there was and is them - the legion!
        Now it’s ridiculous, but in fact it’s scary how they can turn it into a huge herd of people by constant swotting and substitution of concepts.
      5. xzWhiteWolf
        xzWhiteWolf April 19 2013 17: 57
        +2
        Quote: Greyfox
        Greyfox (3) Yesterday, 08:08 ↑
        According to the memoirs of Guderian, Middeldorf, Mellenthin, Manstein and Tippelskirch

        Some kind of nonsense ... The Russians had a lot of anti-guns ?? What year is this? 44-5?
        At the beginning of the war, we did not have any hand-held anti-tank guns and self-propelled guns that would pierce even their groove. Just for the reason that the Germans misinformed our troops well before the war .. When "accidentally" we were beguiled with the Poles. Huge armor plates were welded onto the tanks, which could not be penetrated by our guns. Based on the stories of the fighters who fought with the Germans in this border incident, it was formulated that there was no point in creating an anti-tank gun because the armor of German tanks was too thick. And as life has shown .. Half of the German tanks were cardboard, most of them captured.
        1. datur
          datur April 19 2013 20: 58
          0
          Some kind of nonsense ... The Russians had a lot of anti-guns ?? What year is this? 44-5? --- they probably meant ptrd !!! laughing but in general it's just banter !!!!! laughing
        2. carbofo
          carbofo April 20 2013 00: 10
          +2
          Quote: xzWhiteWolf
          The Russians had a lot of AT guns ?? What year is this? 44-5?

          It was during the initial period of the war that we had a lot of PTRs in service, by the time of the winter of 1941 there were tens of thousands of PTRs of various designs in the troops, German tanks of that time sometimes made their way even into the forehead, so the weapons were timely, as the PTRs increased their armor for suppression of firing points, pillboxes, removal of tank optics, destruction of non-armored and lightly armored vehicles.
          / The first batch of 300 ATGMs was made in October and sent to the 16th Rokossovsky Army in early November. They were first used in battle on November 16th. By December 30, 1941 17 688 ATGMs were issued, and in 1942 - 184.
          / In 1941. only 77 PTRS were produced, in 1942 - 63. After the tests on August 308, the State Defense Committee decided to take them into service.
          The production of the simpler "degtyarevskoe" was adjusted faster, and in 1941 the plant in Kovrov produced 17688 anti-tank guns, and the next year - 10 times more. /http://armyrus.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=666&Itemid=2080/
      6. starshina78
        starshina78 April 20 2013 18: 58
        17
        Remember the story "Not on the lists"? This is a story about the heroes of the Brest Fortress. It ends with the fact that German soldiers salute the Soviet soldier, who was the last defender of the fortress. This is a work of art, but in fact there were cases when the Germans buried our soldiers with honors, thereby paying tribute to courage, courage and fortitude. How our people differs from other nations can be seen in the days of severe trials and years. In no country in the world that foreigners tried to capture, there was such general opposition. People stood up to defend the Fatherland as one, young and old. Abroad, this is considered fanaticism (the Germans considered it to be communist fanaticism), and we simply love our Motherland, despite the fact that it is sometimes our stepmother. What were the Germans counting on when attacking the USSR? The fact that the people will rise up to fight the communist monster, the commissars, but the opposite happened. The people rallied around the CPSU (b). But before the war, a huge number of people suffered from repression. Probably, all the same, in the blood of the Russian people, love for the Motherland, hatred for the invaders, whoever they were. Hence, self-sacrifice, shown at the front, in the rear, courage, fortitude, courage, and even recklessness to some extent, which manifests itself in contempt for death and the enemy. Not a single army of the world had Matrosov and Gastello, a battalion of four and 28 pafilov's men, Talalikhin and Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya. And this small fraction, and how many feats have gone unnoticed and nameless.
        1. to4kavserdce
          to4kavserdce April 23 2013 10: 53
          0
          Totally agree with you)))
        2. VADIMKRSK
          VADIMKRSK April 24 2013 19: 48
          0
          None of the German pilots did not go to the ram ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 24 2013 19: 59
            +1
            This is not true.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 18 2013 08: 21
      32 th
      Quote: avia12005
      And where are "our" destalinizers ???

      And will you now shout glory to Comrade Stalin or glory to the Russian soldier?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets April 18 2013 08: 43
        23
        Well, what are you minus? Justify. And what about the de-stabilizers? Or is it the leader of our soldiers who taught me how to navigate in nature, to love melee, to endure frost and heat steadily, to fight to the last and blow myself up with pillboxes, i.e. to what the German warriors write about? The point is not even in relation to Stalin, he is a great figure. So where do the de-stabilizers?
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 18 2013 08: 51
          -7
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Well, what are you minus? Justify. And what about the de-stabilizers? Or is it the leader of our soldiers who taught me how to navigate in nature, to love melee, to endure frost and heat steadily, to fight to the last and blow myself up with pillboxes, i.e. to what the German warriors write about? The point is not even in relation to Stalin, he is a great figure. So where do the de-stabilizers?

          I fully support it, Stalin himself wouldn’t have fought a lot.
          1. Blad_21617
            Blad_21617 April 18 2013 09: 30
            58
            Without competent leadership and command, no bravery of the units will bring victory, most likely it will be acts of self-sacrifice. Why did the Germans shoot commissars and political instructors in the first place? because it was they who could raise all the warriors to attack. and so the bravest would have died at the beginning of the battle and the cowards would have fled. Stalin is the same "political leader" only on a national scale.
            1. nickname 1 and 2
              nickname 1 and 2 April 18 2013 10: 18
              12
              Quote: Blad_21617
              without proper guidance and command no courage


              do not pile everything.
              we are talking about unlimited courage, stamina, heroism!
              and great leadership, etc., is another song.
              1. SASCHAmIXEEW
                SASCHAmIXEEW April 18 2013 17: 08
                10
                I totally agree with you, God of God, Caesar's Caesar, I wonder why they fool us for nothing, but we have something in response? For example, through the Web in their language, they would give them our memoirs of their soldiers, what they got here! So that their children and grandchildren do not think about the East, so that they can absorb "NO ROAD TO THE EAST" with their mother's milk. Or you need to scare the Main Skirmisher of the Eternal Jew from Wall Street so that they forget that there is money in nature! In general, I think the mess in the world will end when the loan interest is simplified and people begin to live honestly! What I earned, I got it !!!
                1. Dejavu
                  Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 19
                  +6
                  Ohoho, the main thing for us is not to forget that we sacrificed ourselves not out of fear of Stalin or the political instructor, but because there were father, mother, wife Masha and 3 bark beetles on the stove under a sheepskin coat. For this they fought to the death! Nobody there yelled "For Stalin" on the battlefield, the current on the tanks was written for the video archive. And so they shouted "URAAAA, FOR THE MOTHERLAND" !!!
                  1. carver
                    carver April 20 2013 19: 13
                    +1
                    Have you been there My grandfather said that they often went into battle with the slogan for Stalin, for their homeland. I tend to believe him. And in general, the pre-war life in the Union was quite good, and 37% of the population did not feel all these fears of the 99th year for sure, and they began to ascribe this coming night to Stalin only under Khrushchev.
                    1. Akatsubasa
                      Akatsubasa April 22 2013 10: 08
                      +1
                      Indeed, before Khrushchev, Stalin was perceived as the father of the people. Yes, contemporaries had some doubts, but absolute leaders never existed, the main thing is not this. It is not so important under what slogans our grandfathers moved forward or even great-grandfathers already came to someone - it is important that all the Soviet peoples rose together and defended their dear land and people. And what prompted them to do this is not so important.
                      1. Denzel13
                        Denzel13 April 23 2013 22: 51
                        +1
                        Just like that for comparison:

                        1937 - the population of the USSR is about 180 million - if I am not mistaken, those sentenced to imprisonment - about 540 thousand people;

                        2010 of the Russian Federation, population of about 140 million people sentenced to imprisonment of about 780 thousand people.
                      2. dddym
                        dddym April 24 2013 08: 50
                        -1
                        1937 + 1938 - 162mln convicted by 2944879 with a total number of crimes of about 1600 thousand
                        2011 - 143mln convicted, including 1300 thousand people in jail with 2 million 302 thousand 168 crimes committed
                      3. dddym
                        dddym April 26 2013 08: 15
                        0
                        I give more clearly.
                        1937 + 1938 (two years) - 162mln lived. 2944879 convicted with a total number of crimes of about 1600 thousand
                        if divided in half, then on average per year 1,43 million per year. 800 Thousands of Crimes.
                        2011 - 143 mln. Convicted, including 1300 thousand people in a pre-trial detention center with 2302168 crimes committed. All figures are taken from the "original" documents.
          2. vjhbc
            vjhbc April 18 2013 19: 11
            0
            and where is now unlimited courage, steadfastness, heroism! there is no leadership there is no Russian people
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            do not pile everything.
            we are talking about unlimited courage, stamina, heroism!
            and great leadership, etc., is another song.
            1. Vasily T.
              Vasily T. April 19 2013 03: 11
              10
              There is no decent leadership, I agree. But the RUSSIAN people you have in vain buried!
            2. Dejavu
              Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 21
              +6
              The Russian people lived, is alive and will live. We are cooler than cockroaches, horseradish corrode.
            3. A. Yaga
              A. Yaga April 19 2013 23: 34
              +1
              Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. The persistence with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol is akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or education. Russians have always been like that and most likely will always be like that»

              Josef Goebbels
          3. psdf
            psdf April 18 2013 19: 55
            +5
            Starting from the department - to the marshals, the whole continuous management, which, as you know, is different.
            True in the war it was more like this:
            Comrade being the commissar of the fighter company of the 20th motorized rifle and machine gun battalion in the battle near the village of Vorontsovo, he replaced the killed commander and commissar of the rifle company, raised the fighters to the attack, as a result of which the enemy was knocked out of the village, having suffered heavy losses in manpower and equipment.
            In the battle for the village of Makarovo comrade temporarily fulfilling the post of commissar of the 20th motorized rifle-machine gun battalion by personal example he dragged the battalion into the attack, the enemy from the village of Makarovo was knocked out.
            In the area of ​​the village of Sorokino, with a company of 24 people, it repelled 4 enemy attacks with a force of up to 200 people with the support of the tank. The enemy lost up to 50 strikeouts.
            In this battle comrade was wounded, but did not leave the battlefield until all attacks were repulsed. Comrade personally destroyed 17 fascists.
          4. pavlo
            pavlo April 18 2013 19: 57
            +8
            He also didn’t run away from Moscow !!! Although he could.
          5. Dmitro
            Dmitro April 19 2013 20: 36
            +2
            What pile and what does it bring down?

            It is true that without proper guidance, nothing will come of it.
            And this is not “another song”, but the words of one song, and you cannot erase these words from the song. How old are you? .. I'm sure not enough.
        2. Dmitry_2013
          Dmitry_2013 April 18 2013 12: 32
          16
          Stalin remained in history as the leader of the country, and many of those described in this article rest in peace in the earth ... So honor and praise to those who fought to the end.
          PS And the article just emphasizes the steadfastness and heroism of the Russian Soldier, and not the ability or inability of the leadership to influence this.
          1. vjhbc
            vjhbc April 18 2013 19: 16
            +6
            there would be no leadership and there would not be any resilience and heroism it would all be like now the country has been set up with cancer and everybody has sundry and back and front and double and triple traction and all the people fuck
            Quote: Dmitry_2013
            Stalin remained in history as the leader of the country, and many of those described in this article rest in peace in the earth ... So honor and praise to those who fought to the end.
            PS And the article just emphasizes the steadfastness and heroism of the Russian Soldier, and not the ability or inability of the leadership to influence this.
            1. mehanik27
              mehanik27 April 18 2013 22: 39
              0
              What does the leadership of the country have to do with it when it comes to the very beginning of the war ... a lot of the leadership has directed on June 22 in the Brest Fortress, for example (except for the regimental link) ????
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 19 2013 05: 23
                -6
                Quote: mehanik27
                What does the leadership of the country have to do with it when it comes to the very beginning of the war ... a lot of the leadership has directed on June 22 in the Brest Fortress, for example (except for the regimental link) ????

                Without diminishing the feat of the defenders of the Brest Fortress, I want to ask a question: what tactical or strategic benefit did this battle bring?
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker April 19 2013 12: 36
                  12
                  Quote: Setrac
                  Without diminishing the feat of the defenders of the Brest Fortress, I want to ask a question: what tactical or strategic benefit did this battle bring?

                  The answer can be found in the memoirs of the same German military leaders.
                  The stubborn resistance of the surrounded parts of the Red Army forced the Wehrmacht command to keep combat-ready units in its rear, including armored units, which were desperately needed by the front.
                  1. Setrac
                    Setrac April 19 2013 19: 57
                    +1
                    Quote: stalkerwalker
                    The answer can be found in the memoirs of the same German military leaders.
                    The stubborn resistance of the surrounded parts of the Red Army forced the Wehrmacht command to keep combat-ready units in its rear, including armored units, which were desperately needed by the front.

                    I can be mistaken, but didn’t the Romanian units block the Brest Fortress after they couldn’t take it on the move? So no VALUABLE units were detained.
                  2. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker April 19 2013 20: 06
                    +6
                    Quote: Setrac
                    So no VALUABLE units were detained

                    1. I did not minus you. fellow
                    2. Romanians "planted" after UNplanned BIG losses.
                    3. Not only the Brest Fortress pinned down the Wehrmacht units. By that time, the "Minsk pot" had already formed, and so on.
                    hi
                  3. Setrac
                    Setrac April 19 2013 20: 17
                    0
                    oh well, here's a plus for you, sorry chtoli, they are free from me, and the previous message is another soldier
                  4. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker April 19 2013 20: 28
                    +4
                    Quote: Setrac
                    oh well, here's a plus for you, sorry chtoli, they are free from me, and the previous message is another

                    Thank you.
                    hi
          2. aleshka
            aleshka April 21 2013 14: 16
            0
            it is farmers in everything looking for profit or benefit, and the soldiers of the Brest Fortress simply fought as they were taught !!
      2. Dejavu
        Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 27
        +3
        Dear, you chronically carry nonsense. They haven’t regained their possessions in order to have Russia. No need to prioritize the 90s. Gone are the days. Russia comes to life and rises the spirit of the country. If this is not in you, then this is your problem. But do not dare to sow panic. Keep your point of view to yourself, otherwise you spoil the air here and do not be ashamed.
  • Deniska999
    Deniska999 April 18 2013 17: 16
    +2
    Stalin is a spiritual leader.
  • vjhbc
    vjhbc April 18 2013 19: 09
    -5
    despite the fact that without a strong leader, a Russian herd of sheep which one kosel leads to slaughter and all this is confirmed by history. A strong leader everyone screams. The Russian people defeated.
    Quote: Allex28
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Well, what are you minus? Justify. And what about the de-stabilizers? Or is it the leader of our soldiers who taught me how to navigate in nature, to love melee, to endure frost and heat steadily, to fight to the last and blow myself up with pillboxes, i.e. to what the German warriors write about? The point is not even in relation to Stalin, he is a great figure. So where do the de-stabilizers?

    I fully support it, Stalin himself wouldn’t have fought a lot.
    1. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 18 2013 21: 45
      0
      despite the fact that without a strong leader, a Russian herd of sheep which one ko-zel leads to slaughter

      This is true everywhere, and not just ours ....
    2. carver
      carver April 20 2013 19: 23
      0
      What you wrote only says that you are a stupid ram. Any even the smallest group of people always has a leader.
    3. carver
      carver April 20 2013 19: 23
      0
      What you wrote only says that you are a stupid ram. Any even the smallest group of people always has a leader.
  • se-ma
    se-ma April 19 2013 22: 48
    +1
    Of course, there was an ideology, but I think the main thing is still love for the motherland.
  • dddym
    dddym April 18 2013 09: 00
    34
    I did not minus. However, I ask you to note that Stalin had a different task, if everyone rushed to the front, then who would feed these warriors? In war, everyone has different tasks, commanders tactically and strategically solve. The truth is that if Stalin had been killed, then the war would have been immediately lost. Despite the heroism and courage of the soldiers.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 18 2013 09: 07
      0
      Quote: dddym
      However, I ask you to note that Stalin had a different task, if everyone rushed to the front, then who would feed these warriors? In war, everyone has different tasks, commanders tactically and strategically solve.

      Of course, another, but the article is not about the role of Stalin in the Second World War, but about the Russian eyes of the Germans, why weave too much?
      Quote: Allex28
      This article shows the personal heroism of the RUSSIAN SOLDIER, not the "wise" leadership of Comrade. Stalin.

      Quote: dddym
      The truth is that if Stalin had been killed, then the war would have been immediately lost. Despite the heroism and courage of the soldiers.

      I repeat once again: Stalin is a great historical figure, but Stalin alone would not have won anything, and after his murder it is not known what would have happened, and you immediately
      Quote: dddym
      The truth is

      It is good when truth is revealed to man. wink
      1. dddym
        dddym April 18 2013 09: 25
        16
        Very good! :) Let's figure it out? :))) Well, the typhoon operation, for example - Here the Germans broke through at Smolensk. Just the vultures that surrounded Stalin - they would simply have broken into his grave. And Comrade Zhukov would be the first to gladly send troops to Moscow with a new slogan - all the power of Comrade. Zhukov. Thus, those few days that were won by Comrade Stalin would be lost forever. Stalin alone is the same deceit! If he is a leader, then it cannot be otherwise and he cannot be more than one, to say the opposite, then we can assume that one soldier with a rifle defeated all of Germany. Stalin defeated TOGETHER. And we won under his leadership, try to prove the opposite.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets April 18 2013 09: 29
          11
          Quote: dddym
          Let's figure it out? :)))

          I do not want. wink
          Quote: dddym
          try to prove the opposite.

          I do not want.
          The title of the article:
          "Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans"

          About Stalin and his role elsewhere, we chop. hi
          1. Setrac
            Setrac April 19 2013 05: 31
            +1
            Quote: Vladimirets
            I do not want.
            The title of the article:
            "Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans"

            The article should have been titled "How the Germans Shift the Responsibility for Their Shortcomings and Blunders onto the Russian People, the Russian Country and the Russian Weather."
            1. A. Yaga
              A. Yaga April 19 2013 23: 45
              +2
              Quote: Setrac
              Quote: Vladimirets
              I do not want.
              The title of the article:
              "Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans"

              The article should have been titled "How the Germans Shift the Responsibility for Their Shortcomings and Blunders onto the Russian People, the Russian Country and the Russian Weather."

              pah. Like, we are alive only because the Germans are losers, and in their eyes we were cooler than the French.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 20 2013 00: 38
                0
                Quote: A. Yaga
                pah. Like, we are alive only because the Germans are losers, and in their eyes we were cooler than the French.

                Why we are alive does not depend on what the Germans think about it.
            2. Bern
              Bern April 20 2013 09: 11
              0
              They had one mistake - crossing the border with the USSR on June 22 of the 41st.
        2. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 April 18 2013 10: 40
          -5
          Both I and I have such an opinion! = Stalin has nothing to do with it!
          Quote: dddym
          And we won under his leadership, try to prove the opposite.

          And we won against his leadership!

          Not the fact that he is the most! but now not about him.

          And the fact that the Russians showed massive heroism in the war against fascism! fool
          1. Aleks28
            Aleks28 April 18 2013 10: 50
            -7
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            And we won against his leadership!

            Not the fact that he is the most! but now not about him.

            And the fact that the Russians showed massive heroism in the war against fascism!

            Well, people cannot do without the king of the grandmother No. Give them the king of the almighty and that’s it. But you can forget about mediocre operations by personal order. But he can be the king. fool
            1. Strezhevchanin
              Strezhevchanin April 18 2013 19: 06
              +4
              Quote: Allex28
              Well, people cannot do without the king of the grandmother

              You probably wanted to say LEADER? National Mobilizing Leader? Even the party and the tribe have their own leader leader, well, this is obvious. I am personally interested in another question ... how did all these geyropeytsy want to conquer such territory knowing that they would have to fight in the winter ??? Notice everyone stepped on the same rake and in the end? Some climb on the ice in armor, Napoleon apparently just thought that Russia was Sochi, Hitler also thought that the Urals with the climate is visible in Africa?
              1. Rider
                Rider April 18 2013 19: 26
                +4
                I am personally interested in another question ... how did all these geyropeytsy want to conquer such territory knowing that they would have to fight in the winter ???


                Forgive me, dear, but the Europeans did not prepare for the winter war with Russia, that the Buanopartis, the hführer, hoped to end the war not only before the frost, but even before the autumn thaw.

                they forget all the time that:

                Russia is not always as weak as it seems
                but not as strong as he wants to seem.


                Well, in general, like - an ear on clay feet.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac April 19 2013 05: 35
                  +3
                  Quote: Rider
                  Forgive me, dear, but the Europeans did not prepare for the winter war with Russia, that the Buanopartis, the hführer, hoped to end the war not only before the frost, but even before the autumn thaw.

                  But did they expect to somehow keep the occupied territories? They planned to leave some (very significant) contingent, and there should have been quite a lot of winter clothes and fuel and lubricants!
                2. Strezhevchanin
                  Strezhevchanin April 19 2013 08: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: Rider
                  the Europeans did not prepare for the winter war with Russia

                  That's what I'm talking about! There was no plan "B" and the past battles did not teach them anything? With a trip to a country like ours, you need to think about at least 100 options. That's what the nemchur just did for ABOS. Well, Hitler was unexpected that the Rusichi would resist wassat
            2. Dejavu
              Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 33
              -9
              Around me alone I see the Stalinists. But didn’t your Uncle Stalin rot your grandparents in the camps? My great-grandfathers both ended up there, and their children carried the cross of the children of the enemies of the people. Okay was a man who would argue.
              1. vladsolo56
                vladsolo56 April 19 2013 05: 39
                +7
                I am not a Stalinist, I was born and raised in Altai. So I don’t remember that in our relatives someone would be repressed, and how many friends and acquaintances I had, no one remembered such facts. I do not want to say that this was not at all. Only now there were always enough fools, and as you know, make a fool pray to God, he will break his forehead.
            3. rodevaan
              rodevaan April 20 2013 07: 42
              +2
              [quote = Allex28] [quote = nicknames 1 and 2]
              Well, people can’t live without the king of the grandmother [/ quote]

              - Not in the king-priest. Our country and our people, based on their mentality, should have a strong LEADER! A business executive, and a fair, uncompromising leader who could organize competent government of the country. And who it will be and what it will be called - the king, the Secretary General, or the president - it does not matter. Only such a leader will enjoy the support of the Russian people.
              There is nothing to be done - this is our mentality, and it will remain so. All sorts of parliamentary and public almshouses and sickhouses, where a bunch of fat morons sit and impede government decisions - Russia's direct road to the abyss.
          2. Setrac
            Setrac April 19 2013 05: 30
            +1
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            And we won against his leadership!

            Why, then, the poor and unfortunate German generals could not win, as you say, "in spite of" Hitler's leadership?
          3. svp67
            svp67 April 20 2013 09: 16
            +1
            Quote: nick 1 and 2
            And the fact that the Russians showed massive heroism in the war against fascism!


            Heroism, and even massive one, is good, but it is much better to do it with weapons, food and other equipment. And it’s difficult to overestimate the role of Stalin in organizing this ...
        3. Snoop
          Snoop April 18 2013 11: 49
          +8
          By the way, Hitler and his entourage strongly hoped for an uprising and the overthrow of Stalin ... but alas)))
          1. Dmitry_2013
            Dmitry_2013 April 18 2013 12: 36
            +1
            During what period of the war did they hope, please specify?
            1. Rider
              Rider April 18 2013 13: 09
              +2
              What period of the war did they hope


              at the very beginning.

              about the colossus with feet of clay, it's from there.
              1. Dmitry_2013
                Dmitry_2013 April 18 2013 16: 27
                -2
                And so much hope that they stopped the offensive and were waiting for a civil war?
                Do not make me laugh. This is Goebbels propaganda, nothing more.
                PS if they relied on civilian, then our collaborators would be used and armed more actively than it actually was.
                1. Rider
                  Rider April 18 2013 16: 43
                  +8
                  Well vashcheto calculation was not only on kolaborrrrrr ugh damn language break
                  well traitors that is
                  although he justified himself, take at least the ROA at least the policemen, although the national punitive battalions.

                  the calculation was that the whole scum was like a snowball.
                  that the government (Stalin) will not be able to keep the country from chaos and effectively organize defense.
                  and the military (possibly) in fear of reprisals (well, like Pavlov) will arrange a military coup.
                  it doesn’t matter if they want to continue the resistance later, or whether they will sign a separate peace in the likes of Brest.
                  time will be lost, and the defending forces will lose faith in leadership even more.
                  whatever you say, the "rating" of the IVS in the country was incredibly high.
                  and it was thanks to this that, despite colossal losses and severe defeats, it was possible to maintain a more effective management of the country.
              2. Proud.
                Proud. April 18 2013 17: 29
                +4
                Diderot invented this "call-up" back in the 18th century. And the French ambassador Segur, having visited Russia, wrote in his memoirs: "... that if earlier Russia was only a colossus with feet of clay, then this clay was allowed to harden and it turned into bronze ".
                1. Rider
                  Rider April 18 2013 17: 47
                  +5
                  Well, probably the Fuhrer did not read the Segur.

                  and by the way, times are changing.
                  do not you think that the Russian times of 1MB became somewhat different by the time of 2MB.
                2. DimychDV
                  DimychDV April 19 2013 05: 52
                  +5
                  Not only times, but also mentality. And still, the breadth of view was not enough. For kings with a bonboy, they hunted for dozens of years, when only one sniper with Lee-Enfield would be enough. In the 41st they assembled the OMSBON, after Moscow they pulled it into guerrilla leaders and saboteurs, and after all parachute personnel in the country could gather crowds and use landing parties more widely. Sobsno, and there wasn’t any landing tactics yet. After all, there were a lot of supermen in the country - a dime a dozen, and them - in the trenches with a rifle. Yes, with a lemon for the tanks.
                  Today, it is also important to watch outside the box - how to confront all these contactless wars, how to call them into contact, into a fight. Or do not wait for yourself until they break up the division with a pair of ultra-precision nuclear missiles, but how to pour this division into the adversary by the collar. These are our super-powerful boats, to which the missiles were eliminated. But can’t they be riveted into landing barges? If a regiment of marines emerges from under the water somewhere in Massachusetts, then this will be a completely different reversal. They will not rake so many green berets to our black berets, they are all scattered around the bases ...
      2. trenkkvaz
        trenkkvaz April 18 2013 13: 54
        +5
        Quote: dddym
        Very good! :) Let's figure it out? :))) Well, the typhoon operation, for example - Here the Germans broke through at Smolensk. Just the vultures that surrounded Stalin - they would simply have broken into his grave. ... Stalin defeated TOGETHER. And we won under his leadership, try to prove the opposite.


        Oh, how in the 1812 year we managed without Stalin.
        It should not be assumed that Stalin was surrounded by fools in the country's leadership, who without him could not have united in the face of an external enemy.
        1. dddym
          dddym April 18 2013 14: 04
          +3
          You read the war and the world ???? If not, read :))) Especially when the Emperor Alexander is before the people :))) And everything will fall into place :)))
        2. Rider
          Rider April 18 2013 14: 11
          +4
          Oh, how in the 1812 year we managed without Stalin.


          but weak to you 1905-07
          и
          1914-16 to cite as an example?

          and notice NO REPRESSIONS.
        3. svp67
          svp67 April 18 2013 14: 34
          +4
          Quote: trenkkvaz
          Oh, how in the 1812 year we managed without Stalin.


          Each time has its own heroes - then there was Alexander 1
      3. mehanik27
        mehanik27 April 18 2013 22: 47
        0
        What to deal with ???? Nobody disputes the role of Stalin, but it’s not about him, but about the dedication of the Russian people (and, in principle, of all other nations that make up the community of Soviet people, with rare exceptions). The word, worse than a de-stabilizer, can only be combat the Internet hamster screaming about the role of Stalin even in the conception of cattle in the USSR. What does Stalin have to do with the recollections when speaking of the very beginning of the war and the comparison by the Germans of companies against other countries and the USSR. In general, by its courage, courage and sense of duty oennosluzhaschie parts of the border districts gave Stalin the opportunity to maintain order and to mobilize the country
    2. Setrac
      Setrac April 19 2013 05: 26
      0
      Quote: Vladimirets
      I repeat once again: Stalin is a great historical figure, but Stalin alone would not have won anything, and after his murder it is not known what would have happened, and you immediately

      However, according to your logic, Hitler did not lose alone either. Do you have any double standards? Are you not working for the State Department?
  • Aleks28
    Aleks28 April 18 2013 09: 12
    28 th
    Quote: dddym
    However, I ask you to note that Stalin had a different task, if everyone rushed to the front, then who would feed these warriors? In war, everyone has different tasks, commanders tactically and strategically solve. The truth is that if Stalin had been killed, then the war would have been immediately lost. Despite the heroism and courage of the soldiers.

    The main "merit" of Stalin is that by the beginning of the war the Red Army was left without an experienced leadership. That is why, on the courage of the soldiers alone, they left.
    1. dddym
      dddym April 18 2013 09: 28
      17
      Your answer has been taken into account - as soon as I have time I will try to provide materials "about the purge in the army by Comrade Stalin." If you are crystal clear that Stalin was just doing it like that, then no reason will convince you except the documents - if, of course, you will read them.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA April 18 2013 10: 09
        12
        Quote: dddym
        unless of course you will read them.

        Why read the documents, he draws facts from newspapers. laughing
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 06
          12 th
          Quote: ATATA
          Why read the documents, he draws facts from newspapers

          It would be interesting to know where you get the info from? Probably you have unlimited access to the archives. laughing
          1. ATATA
            ATATA April 18 2013 11: 28
            +4
            Quote: Allex28
            It’s interesting to know where you get the information from? Probably you have unlimited access to the archives

            In order not to stir up everything, first listen to Anatoly Wasserman on this topic.
      2. Aleks28
        Aleks28 April 18 2013 10: 27
        19 th
        Quote: dddym
        Very good!

        Quote: dddym
        Let's figure it out ?:

        Quote: dddym
        Your response has been recorded

        Faithful Stalinist, judging by the comments. winkWhen will you start shooting? crying
        1. dddym
          dddym April 18 2013 10: 46
          23
          Anyone just not "Faithful Stalinist". If you think so, then both the faithful Petrovets and the faithful Yekaterinenets, and even Kutuzovets and Suvorovets. I am just Russian. I was brought up on fairy tales that my grandmother read, I went to a school that was proud of its students - but it was not under Stalin. It hurts me when my homeland is humiliated. Stalin did the same a lot - but when we accuse him we forget to blame others - those who are worthy of this accusation. Namely, those who gave us this lesson, destroyed the country that was created by the labor and blood of my and your ancestors, and even poured mud on them. Accusing Stalin, we spit on our past and say our grandfathers are bastards, but we are soft and fluffy.
          1. Aleks28
            Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 00
            10 th
            Quote: dddym
            Blaming Stalin we spit on our past

            No one accuses him, but stop him and glorify him.THE ONLY SIZE IN RUSSIA IS THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.And if we didn’t have such a people, either Stalin, etc., couldn’t do anything.
            1. dddym
              dddym April 18 2013 11: 08
              10
              I didn’t exalt — what did you decide — or is simply protecting a person from accusation — an exaltation? Or is there something wrong in your opinion in my logic? So correct and do not teach what I should say so that you live comfortably. Without the people, Stalin, of course, did nothing, but with the people he did what we would not have been able to do. We defeated Hitler under the leader with the party nickname Stalin and not Alex28. Sorry, but at least in this he was cooler than us.
              1. Aleks28
                Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 37
                -4
                Quote: dddym
                I didn’t exalt — what did you decide — or is simply protecting a person from accusation — an exaltation?

                And how then to understand it?
                Quote: dddym
                The truth is that if Stalin had been killed, then the war would have been immediately lost. Despite the heroism and courage of the soldiers.
              2. dddym
                dddym April 18 2013 12: 00
                13
                And to understand it as it is written. Remember the real situation of the Russian front. And the situation in which Stalin was the only person able to control the Zhukovs, Khrushchevs. Zhdanov and similar cadres of the Soviet leadership. In addition, flight from Moscow and panic were prevented by the mere presence of Stalin in Moscow. If Moscow escaped, if the panic continued, the USSR would lose, for example, the transport system. Stalin did not run away and for this he bowed low to him.
              3. Aleks28
                Aleks28 April 18 2013 12: 22
                16 th
                Quote: dddym
                Stalin did not run away and for this he bowed low to him.

                Look carefully at the videos from the parade on November 7, 1941, and you will get answers to everything.
              4. dddym
                dddym April 18 2013 13: 21
                +5
                and what is it that I would be surprised? :))) If you think that I did not watch this parade - you are mistaken :)))
              5. Aleks28
                Aleks28 April 18 2013 13: 24
                -6
                Yeah, judging by the estimates, they also noticed. lol
        2. tttttt
          tttttt April 18 2013 14: 42
          13
          You just need to understand that it is precisely the Russian people, and the Russian spirit raised Stalin to such an extent, if there were no Russian people, there would be no Stalin. Especially at that historical moment. Yes, and you will know that none of the ruling elite of that time loved the Russian people and did not care about them as Stalin did. When there was a banquet on the occasion of the Great Victory, only Iosif Vissarionovich stood up and proclaimed a toast to "the great Russian people who won this war." Everything about Stalin, and stop believing in liberal fairy tales for fledgling children's minds.
      3. screw cutter
        screw cutter April 18 2013 13: 57
        19
        The Great Patriotic War for our people is one of the most tragic and at the same time brilliant dates in its great history. In this war, the people showed all their best sides, lived at full strength, fought and built. Our enemies are doing their best to belittle this feat worthy of the gods and titans. One of the "black myths" born by them is that the people won the war in defiance of Joseph Stalin. But if one reads articles of various kinds of spiteful critics who hate the Soviet era of our history, and study this period in a comprehensive manner, we can note a number of important points that completely refute this myth.
        First, Stalin was one of the main ideological inspirers of the state industrialization process. So, in 1927, they were told the famous phrase that "we have 10 years to catch up with the developed countries, otherwise they will crush us." For this, it was necessary to suppress the strong resistance of supporters of the development of the NEP, to “tighten their belts” and turn the state into a powerful industrial power in just three incomplete five-year plans. It was already a feat. One can imagine what would have happened if the Soviet Union had gone the way of supporters of the NEP, when the mechanized armads of the Wehrmacht would have encountered an army like the Polish, without a powerful defense industry, thousands of tanks and aircraft and the ability to produce them in thousands. And all this is Stalin's merit.
      4. tttttt
        tttttt April 18 2013 14: 30
        13
        Quote: Allex28
        Quote: dddym
        Blaming Stalin we spit on our past

        No one accuses him, but stop him and glorify him.THE ONLY SIZE IN RUSSIA IS THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.And if we didn’t have such a people, either Stalin, etc., couldn’t do anything.

        Or maybe it would be much more correct to say simply - "Russian people"? And then Yeltsin's racy and rushing. Under Joseph Vissarionovich, there was actually a Soviet people, and not only the Great Russians (Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians) died, but also the small peoples of our Motherland, and the Heroes of the Soviet Union received on an equal footing, including posthumously.
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 18 2013 14: 39
          -2
          Quote: tttttt
          Or maybe it would be much more correct to say simply - "Russian people"? And then Yeltsin's racy and rushing. Under Joseph Vissarionovich, there was actually a Soviet people, and not only the Great Russians (Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians) died, but also the small peoples of our Motherland, and the Heroes of the Soviet Union received on an equal footing, including posthumously.
          belay
          Did you understand what you said? That's exactly why I wrote:RUSSIAN PEOPLE
        2. tttttt
          tttttt April 20 2013 16: 32
          0
          RUSSIAN PEOPLE in the Patriotic War? Hm. Explicit dysfunction.
    2. plebs
      plebs April 21 2013 03: 42
      +1
      THE ONLY SIZE IN RUSSIA IS THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE. And if we hadn’t had such a people, neither Stalin, etc., could have done anything.
      Remind me how many Germans were captured during the first months of the war, just when the leadership often lost contact with the troops. Even in the summer of 1942, when the Germans attacked no less vigorously, due to the fact that command and control was not lost, the number of prisoners taken was several times less than in the summer of 1941. This is what the most steadfast and brave soldier (people) are worth without leadership.
  • ATATA
    ATATA April 18 2013 11: 05
    0
    Quote: Allex28
    Faithful Stalinist, judging by the comments.

    How finicky you are, maybe you do not like the word patriot?
    And who are you, a faithful Khrushchevets?
    You know that Khrushchev's hands are covered in blood up to the elbows, and he and his comrades like him in the field arranged these repressions. And that Stalin, for excesses in repression, transferred Khrushchev from the Moscow Regional Committee to the Kiev Regional Committee with a postscript on the resolution "Come on, I_D_I_O_T!"
    1. Aleks28
      Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 13
      0
      Quote: ATATA
      How finicky you are, maybe you do not like the word patriot?
      And who are you, a faithful Khrushchevets?

      So where are your documents? You are our knowledgeable one. And to be a patriot you don’t need to engage in idolatry, but you just need to love your Motherland, as it is with all its shortcomings and advantages.
    2. Aleks28
      Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 23
      0
      Quote: ATATA
      And who are you, a faithful Khrushchevets?
      You know that Khrushchev's hands are covered in blood up to the elbows, and he and his comrades like him in the field arranged these repressions. And that Stalin, for excesses in repressions, transferred Khrushchev from the Moscow Regional Committee to the Kiev Regional Committee with a postscript to the resolution "Quit I_D_I_O_T!"

      belay Did I mention the name of Khrushchev somewhere? And the fact that with him they flew into space I do not credit him, but I credit primarily to our engineers, designers ... that is. again to our people.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac April 19 2013 05: 46
        +2
        Well, yes, Korolev without Khrushchev made a decision to build a rocket, engineers without Korolyov got down to drawings, workers without engineers built a rocket, cosmonauts without workers flew into space. So they have nothing to do with (including Gagarin), it is only the merit of the "Russian people".
        As one great person said, "every mistake has a name and surname," to paraphrase I will say from myself, "every merit has a name and surname."
  • ATATA
    ATATA April 18 2013 09: 47
    15
    Quote: Allex28
    Stalin's main "merit" was that by the beginning of the war the Red Army was left without an experienced leadership.

    Are you Blucher and Tukhachevsky considered experienced?
    1. Aleks28
      Aleks28 April 18 2013 10: 04
      -6
      Quote: ATATA
      Are you Blucher and Tukhachevsky considered experienced?

      I will not crucify for a long time, I will indicate only one of the brigade commanders was repressed-338!
      1. ATATA
        ATATA April 18 2013 10: 08
        +2
        Quote: Allex28
        I will not crucify for a long time, I will indicate only one of the brigade commanders was repressed-338!

        So what? Can you evaluate their competence? Do you know the primary documents to draw conclusions yourself? Or do you have newspaper information from journalists?
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 18 2013 10: 24
          -1
          Quote: ATATA
          So what? Can you evaluate their competence? Do you know the primary documents to draw conclusions yourself?

          You are the sweetest nonsense. But then I have in my hands a copy of the sentence to my grandfather and an extract from rehabilitation, for me these are eloquent documents, and a good example of the legal proceedings of those years.
          1. ATATA
            ATATA April 18 2013 10: 59
            10
            Quote: Allex28
            You are the sweetest nonsense. But then I have in my hands a copy of the sentence to my grandfather and an extract from rehabilitation, for me these are eloquent documents, and a good example of the legal proceedings of those years.

            Was your grandfather a brigade commander?
            If not, do not bring everything into one mess.
            I have the same ancestors repressed, only because they are Germans.
            But we are discussing repression against the commanders of the Red Army, and not our relatives.
            I read somewhere that many of the top commanders of the Red Army in the 30s simply blossomed morally.
            They had more orderlies and cooks for the household than the royal generals!
            They paid for it.
            1. Aleks28
              Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 44
              -2
              Quote: ATATA
              Was your grandfather a brigade commander?

              No, my grandfather was an imperial officer.
              Quote: ATATA
              I have the same ancestors repressed, only because they are Germans.

              But the Germans were affected by completely different repressions: Mass deportation and labor. Army. And this decision seems to me, though cruel, but true.
            2. ATATA
              ATATA April 18 2013 11: 53
              12
              Quote: Allex28
              No, my grandfather was an imperial officer

              Quote: Allex28
              But the Germans were affected by completely different repressions: Mass deportation and labor. Army. And this decision seems to me, though cruel, but true.

              What concerns you is not fair, but the mass deportation of others, when 5 out of 7 children died after being unloaded in the winter in the Kazakh steppe in winter, is this justice?
              Yes, you urgently need a teacher of double standards science at the US State Department.
              And honestly, after your last comment, there was a burning desire to fool you. You are a fighter for justice only in relation to yourself.
            3. Aleks28
              Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 59
              -9
              Quote: ATATA
              What concerns you is not fair, but the mass deportation of others, when 5 out of 7 children died after being unloaded in the winter in the Kazakh steppe in winter, is this justice?

              Read my comments carefully, there was no talk of justice, I said:
              Quote: Allex28
              . And this decision seems to me, though cruel, but true.
            4. Setrac
              Setrac April 19 2013 05: 53
              0
              Quote: Allex28
              Read my comments carefully, there was no talk of justice, I said:

              Isolating the former tsarist officer is motivated by the same motives as the deportation of the Germans. Moreover, your grandfather was on state support, while the deportees simply survived in the steppe with low chances of survival.
  • svp67
    svp67 April 18 2013 11: 30
    +5
    Quote: ATATA
    So what? Can you evaluate their competence? Do you know the primary documents to draw conclusions yourself? Or do you have newspaper information from journalists?


    And you carefully and thoughtfully read the list of the repressed, there are still a lot of "royal leaven", so there are many specialists, their main "fault" is that they were close to Tukhachevsky ...
    http://www.rkka.ru/handbook/personal/repress/main.htm
    1. ATATA
      ATATA April 18 2013 11: 41
      12
      Quote: svp67
      And you carefully and thoughtfully familiarize yourself with the list of repressed, there is a lot more "royal leaven",

      Yes, all these "facts" are sly. Everything is upside down and upside down.
      Read it here.
      http://chk.forumbb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=1655
      Then here.
      http://redarm37.chat.ru/kombrig.htm
      Count how many of the repressed were shot. Read the first link for what. And then start talking about repression.
      There are only NKVD officers on the lists.
      But Blucher with Tukhachevsky in the sense of repression, as they say, was taught to those who taught Polpota.
      1. Aleks28
        Aleks28 April 18 2013 11: 50
        -4
        Quote: ATATA
        Yes, all these "facts" are sly. Everything is upside down and upside down.

        And where are the links to the source? And how can you confirm the authenticity of the above?
      2. ATATA
        ATATA April 18 2013 12: 30
        +4
        Quote: Allex28
        And where are the links to the source? And how can you confirm the authenticity of the above?

        And you?
        Only relatives no longer whip.
  • screw cutter
    screw cutter April 18 2013 14: 05
    26
    One of the myths that supports the idea of ​​“victory contrary to the system” is the myth of “decapitating the army” before the war. But what the documents say: in the years of mass repressions of the commanders who were shot, 1410 was a man of commanding personnel, not 30-100 thousand, according to “de-Stalinizers”. There were a total of 30 thousands dismissed for health reasons, political reasons, drunks and other reasons, but of these, over 12 thousands of people were able to recover, proving their “purity”. In addition, in 1938-1940, the army received 271 500 new commanders, that is, ten times more than it lost from "mass" repression. During this period, military education grew steadily: if in 1936, 13 thousand people received higher academic military education, 125 thousand people received secondary military education, then 1941 thousand commanders received academic education and 28 thousand military commanders by 206 year. As a result, we met the war with an educated army. In addition, those commanders who, during the Great Patriotic War, will become heroes, our best commanders, have advanced to the top.

    Stalin perfectly learned the lessons of the First World War, the Russian Empire died due to the fact that it did not neutralize the assorted “fifth column” before the war, which eventually organized the February Revolution. The empire did not industrialize and did not introduce universal primary education. The activities of foreign agents, both German, Austrian, and supposedly "allied" - English, French, have not been stopped. A complete failure in the field of ideology, the church in society no longer had its former authority, and almost all of the intelligentsia were pro-Western, conducting subversive work against their own state. As a result - a total disaster.

    That is why in 30-ies and gave a decisive battle of various kinds of destructive elements, undermining the unity of the people in the face of a common threat. That is why Stalin is so hated - he did not allow Russia to be “devoured” in 1941, preparing the country and the people for a decisive battle for survival.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA April 18 2013 16: 16
      +7
      Quote: screw cutter
      That is why in 30-ies and gave a decisive battle of various kinds of destructive elements, undermining the unity of the people in the face of a common threat. That is why Stalin is so hated - he did not allow Russia to be “devoured” in 1941, preparing the country and the people for a decisive battle for survival.

      good 100500
    2. antidote
      antidote April 18 2013 18: 37
      +6
      Screw cutter!
      You famously cut all the destalinists and hesitating. A magnificent remark. Everything is clear and concrete. And hardly any of the liberalists can object to you. They will not say anything
    3. Dejavu
      Dejavu April 19 2013 06: 09
      +3
      Oh, come on! Undoubtedly, the figures for the repressed officers of the tsarist army are overstated and no one argues with this. But the fact that both my great-grandfathers, on the denunciation of neighbors, were sent one to Varkuta, the other is generally unknown where, and even the photographs were taken - this is a fact. I, God forgive me, is not a liberal, and I will never nod towards our history, they say, "Fee", but to idealize Comrade. Stalin is nonsense. Today our country needs a firm hand, which was the hand of Stalin, but not the SAME PRICE! You cannot put your own people in camps for minor offenses for 15 years for the sake of industrialization and the construction of dams and railways. You will say that this is not how the war would merge. Maybe. But surely, with his authority, it was possible to send people to all these mega projects without putting them in prisons and without shooting them in droves. I do not exclude that without Stalin in our history, we could have lost in World War II, but I can never say that this person should be praised for his great services, even though some of which were truly such. But the price of these merits is too high, don't blame me. With all this, these are not just words, but the words of a witness of what happened to my family, and not squeezes from some Khrushchev anti-Stalinist newspaper.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 19 2013 20: 47
        +4
        Quote: dejavu
        but idealize comrade Stalin is nonsense. Today our country needs a firm hand, which was the hand of Stalin, but not at the SAME PRICE!

        What is scary?
        And for the children walking on the street today?
        And since I was 5 years old, I walked the streets, played war games with friends.
        And then crime existed.
      2. vjatsergey
        vjatsergey April 24 2013 05: 02
        0
        Maybe my parents lived in another country, but (I already wrote this somewhere) during the period of my mother’s childhood and youth, and this is precisely the time of Stalin’s reign, two people were convicted (one for stealing in a general store, the other for a fight). But for my childhood and youth was planted - a brother with friends five people, two of my friends. The village, too, only time is Brezhnev. So then comes the bloody tyrant Brezhnev, they planted more?
  • Cutter
    Cutter April 19 2013 03: 19
    +2
    Look at the current top leadership of the army. A thief on a Thief. And correctly repressed. In any case, the lower links did not touch.
  • Setrac
    Setrac April 19 2013 05: 47
    +2
    Quote: Allex28
    I will not crucify for a long time, I will indicate only one of the brigade commanders was repressed-338!

    Judging by the number of traitors, the commanders were shot a little, the good was Stalin, his fault.
  • dddym
    dddym April 18 2013 11: 47
    12
    wink in general, the logic is iron - Stalin shot the experienced leadership and therefore we won the war with Germany :)))))))
    1. Snoop
      Snoop April 18 2013 12: 00
      12
      Aha the surviving generals defeated the Germans with fright))) The current "historians" have no logic)))
      So screams of victory in spite of this bullshit.
      1. Aleks28
        Aleks28 April 18 2013 12: 04
        -3
        Quote: Snoop
        Aha the surviving generals with a fright defeated the Germans)))

        And I will advise you to read the article.“From the very beginning, the Russians showed themselves to be first-class warriors, and our success in the first months of the war was simply explained by better preparation. Having gained combat experience, they became first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional stubbornness, had amazing endurance ... "

        Colonel-General (later Field Marshal) von Kleist
        So in order of familiarization.
        1. Rider
          Rider April 18 2013 13: 37
          +7
          Allex28

          And I’ll advise you to read the article. “From the very beginning, the Russians showed themselves to be first-class warriors,


          SW Alex

          But what about 1MB?

          I think then our ancestors fought no worse.
          but the result ...

          can explain how highly educated generals who have not undergone the repression of the army have managed to purge the war

          and how, with the opposite result, the 2MB ended with troops muzzled by bloody gebe.

          from your speeches, I see that you are a supporter of the concept "won in spite of"
          for all those preaching such ideals, I have one question to which they NEVER could give at least some reasonable answer.

          and so attention is a question.
          if you compare the state with a locomotive (paravoz) and its head with the driver
          then explain how a steam train can go contrary to the driver?

          and this is still a gentle option, since comparing the state with an airplane makes the answer pointless.
        2. antidote
          antidote April 18 2013 18: 43
          +5
          Without an officer (general, Supreme) all valor will be meaningless, it must be so limited so as not to understand that without competent leadership
          Nowhere will it cost. We had a wonderful Soviet people, selfless, hardworking, but the Gorbachevs came with the Yeltsins and prosr .. the whole country. Well, what's the use of selflessness
    2. Aleks28
      Aleks28 April 18 2013 12: 03
      -8
      Quote: dddym
      in general, the logic is iron - Stalin shot the experienced leadership and therefore we won the war with Germany :)))))))

      No, we were beaten and beaten mercilessly for two years. In general, before entering into discussions, we should have read the article.
      1. dddym
        dddym April 18 2013 12: 14
        +8
        We were beaten with weapons of a new generation and not by generals. Why do you persist! We must be proud of the victories of our ancestors, and you are trying to transfer everything to our Stalinization.
        1. Gazprom
          Gazprom April 18 2013 12: 23
          +2
          Quote: dddym
          We were beaten with weapons of a new generation and not by generals. Why do you persist! We must be proud of the victories of our ancestors, and you are trying to transfer everything to our Stalinization.

          was this pzII a new generation? Mauser M98? 10 cm howitzer or "mallet?"
        2. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets April 18 2013 12: 30
          +4
          Quote: dddym
          We were beaten with new generation weapons and not generals

          If it’s no secret, what kind of miracle weapon is the new generation? Messershmites with which our I-16s still fought in Spain? Maybe Czech tanks whose guns didn’t penetrate T-34 and KV armor? Or a Mauser carbine? What is the new generation?
          1. dddym
            dddym April 18 2013 12: 58
            +9
            Well, if you translate into the plane of the pistol, then of course nothing new. As you put it, the Germans did not manage to release the miracle weapon. But the tactics of "Blikrig" polished and put on the battlefield are the very weapons that they and Poland took and France and many others. This is not a miracle weapon, but a new tactic. The tactics of mobile warfare. Don't you think that with a sniper rifle you can stop, for example, the movement of a tank armada? The new tactics worked so perfectly that all the military achievements of practically all countries that Germany had subjugated to itself were crossed out and turned into dust. If you suddenly want to check how it works - take and play a strategy dedicated to the Second World War. On the side of Hitler and just play as the Germans did. You will be surprised at the accuracy of what was happening. How easily the Benelux countries, France and England, are destroyed, how easily Poland is conquered. And as stopping at about Moscow, this tactic slips. Anything that can kill is usually called a weapon. "Blitzkrieg" is a weapon and it is different from everything that came before, which means it is a new generation.
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets April 18 2013 13: 10
              0
              Quote: dddym
              But the tactics of "Blikrig" polished and put on the battlefield are the very weapons that they and Poland took and France and many others. This is not a miracle weapon, but a new tactic. The tactics of mobile warfare.

              Well, you are a sly one. good And who developed the blitzkrieg tactics? If as you say:
              Quote: dddym
              We were beaten with weapons of a new generation and not by generals.

              Plus, I’ll bet you, well done, to refute your own words, and even convince me of this, it’s great. laughing
            2. dddym
              dddym April 18 2013 13: 27
              +1
              Blitzkrieg tactics? A lot was invented in our military, something was taken from De Gaulle. But tactics themselves are the brainchild of Germany. And where is the refutation of my words? :)))
            3. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets April 18 2013 13: 47
              +1
              Quote: dddym
              Blitzkrieg tactics? A lot was invented in our military, something was taken from De Gaulle. But tactics themselves are the brainchild of Germany. And where is the refutation of my words? :)))

              You will be contacted as with seeds, and you will bite until the package is over. smile
              Well, let's do it again. You write:
              Quote: dddym
              We were beaten with weapons of a new generation and not by generals.

              That is, it was not the generals who beat us, but the weapons of the new generation. I asked you:
              Quote: Vladimirets
              If it’s no secret, what kind of miracle weapon is the new generation?

              And suggested that you mean technical innovations in Germany. But you weren’t a blunder and started talking about Blitzkrieg, i.e. war of a new strategy, as a type of weapon of a new generation. Pretending to accept your version with a blitzkrieg, I asked:
              Quote: Vladimirets
              And who developed the blitzkrieg tactics?

              You said:
              Quote: dddym
              But tactics themselves are the brainchild of Germany.

              But she is the brainchild of the German command, be it wrong. A strategy is not a weapon; you cannot distribute it to soldiers; there must be its creators and guides, that is, a command, i.e. generality. We returned to what we left:
              Quote: dddym
              We were not beaten by generals.
            4. Setrac
              Setrac April 19 2013 06: 05
              +1
              Where is the logic then? Who puts dddimu pluses? And the Vladimirites cons! Confess! I promise I will laugh quietly.
            5. dddym
              dddym April 19 2013 08: 00
              0
              What are you talking about ??? I promise to laugh quietly. What you didn’t like is to quote something that you’re not happy with. So, they put a plus to someone and a minus to someone is just your personal dissatisfaction.
            6. Setrac
              Setrac April 19 2013 19: 52
              0
              Quote: dddym
              What are you talking about ??? I promise to laugh quietly. What you didn’t like is to quote something that you’re not happy with. So, they put a plus to someone and a minus to someone is just your personal dissatisfaction.

              Vladimirovets described everything above, the previous five messages, why repeat one in one logical chain of the user "Vladimirovets".
            7. dddym
              dddym April 19 2013 20: 32
              -1
              those. nothing substantial - understand
  • Setrac
    Setrac April 19 2013 06: 02
    0
    Quote: dddym
    If you suddenly want to check how this works, take and play the strategies dedicated to the Second World War.

    This is a bad example, it all depends on the level of artificial intelligence inherent in the game (roughly speaking), if the plot is to win easily, then the computer is not atrocious.
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker April 18 2013 13: 22
    +5
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Messershmity with which our I-16 still in Spain fought?

    Who do you think took down the "chatos" from the Spanish sky?
    1. lazy
      lazy April 20 2013 17: 46
      0
      In Spain, the first versions of Messer did not have a clear advantage against i-16
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 20 2013 19: 18
      +3
      Quote: lazy
      In Spain, the first versions of Messer did not have a clear advantage against i-16

      Is it possible to TTX comparative?
      The Messer had no clear advantage over the Yak-1. In all respects, only the MiG-3 could cope with it - but only at high altitudes.
      German pilots not in vain praised and loved "Emile".
    3. lazy
      lazy April 21 2013 04: 52
      +1
      I’m not saying that the I-16 is better, otherwise there was no need to develop new fighters, but due to its maneuverability it could fight the Messers. ”During the Spanish Civil War, Bf 109B-1 met in the air with I-16 Type 10. The value of the specific wing loading of the German fighter was slightly lower than that of the Soviet, but the battle on turns, as a rule, was won by the Republican pilot. " this is from here http://www.airpages.ru/lw/3m_2.shtml
    4. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 21 2013 12: 11
      +3
      Quote: lazy
      but the Republican pilot usually won the battle. "
      at first ..
      Due to the higher engine power, the bend was replaced by a vertical bout.
      And finally.
      The topic of readiness of the Red Army Air Force requires a separate study.
      The fate of General Rychagov is an example of this. It was the meeting in the air of Spain I-16 and Me-109 that had to be carefully analyzed, which, it seems, did not follow.
      In the "Notes of an Aircraft Designer" it can be seen between the lines.
      As a result, there were attempts to constantly modernize "Yakov", "shovel" "LaGGs" into "LA".
      hi
  • Setrac
    Setrac April 19 2013 05: 59
    0
    Quote: Vladimirets
    If it’s no secret, what kind of miracle weapon is the new generation? Messershmites with which our I-16s still fought in Spain? Maybe Czech tanks whose guns didn’t penetrate T-34 and KV armor? Or a Mauser carbine? What is the new generation?

    70% of the damage was caused by artillery, and the industry that produced shells had a decisive role. Tanks and aircraft certainly played a role, important, but not decisive.
  • antidote
    antidote April 18 2013 18: 47
    +3
    I wonder who in the fall and winter of 41 threw the Germans away from Moscow and stopped near Leningrad? These are probably those whom the Germans beat mercilessly. And you are not ashamed to belittle the heroism of the Red Army in the first two years!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 19 2013 18: 50
      +1
      Quote: antidot
      I wonder who in the fall and winter 41 threw the Germans away from Moscow

      In fact, two divisions from Kazakhstan - the 316th SD from Alma-Ata and the 312th SD from Aktyubinsk stopped the German army. And they threw them away from the walls of Moscow along with divisions from the Far East.
      1. aleshka
        aleshka April 21 2013 14: 34
        0
        bend Comrade Marek!
  • dddym
    dddym April 18 2013 13: 00
    +4
    Oh cons and two at once - cool :) But I didn’t even compose anything - I just took your words :)))
    1. dddym
      dddym April 18 2013 13: 14
      +1
      Mdyayayayayayaya and here a minus - apparently got it ... You forgive the old senile - not out of evil, but for the sake of conscience ...
      1. dddym
        dddym April 18 2013 13: 18
        +3
        Now I just got it. that I exist in the world :)))) Rude! :)))
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 18 2013 14: 02
          +9
          Quote: dddym
          Now I just got it. that I exist in the world :)))) Rude! :)))

          Do not be afraid....
          Everyone went through the minus one.
          Rejoice that you did not run into a "group of comrades" who can get sick with ten pairs of hands.
          belay
        2. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 18 2013 14: 33
          0
          Quote: dddym
          Now I just got it. that I exist in the world :)))) Rude! :)))

          Yes, calm down, you will be a general, especially since you have grown up.
  • Garrin
    Garrin April 18 2013 13: 36
    +3
    Quote: dddym
    wink in general, the logic is iron - Stalin shot the experienced leadership and therefore we won the war with Germany :)))))))

    For that, now we are not the 37th year. And in what ... OPE we stick out.
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker April 18 2013 13: 12
    +7
    Quote: Allex28
    The Red Army was left without experienced leadership. That's why the soldiers left on one courage.

    Opanki!
    There will not be enough space on the site if you "pull" fragments of memoirs about the quality of the military leadership of the Red Army in the first months of the war. Not only the corps commander Petrovsky, the Germans put personal grave crosses.
    In order to evaluate the actions of the Red Army in the conditions of a sudden attack by Germany, one should not consider the endless counterattacks on the flank of the tank wedges of the Wehrmacht as some kind of nonsense.
    Know Main Impact Direction - the dream of any commander. Remember the Kursk Bulge.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 18 2013 18: 02
      +4
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      To know the direction of the main strike is the dream of any commander. Remember the Kursk Bulge.

      Do not slumber "red commissars" ...
      You, my dears, at least drop the news - for what?
  • antidote
    antidote April 18 2013 18: 30
    +2
    This is a lie. Former security officers and commanders of the type Tukhachevsky were mostly shot. Look at the list of all marshals and senior generals of World War II. They are some of the lieutenants who became generals during the war.
    They mostly removed the riffraff. What are the names of those repressed who could be the commander in the war?
  • augur
    augur April 18 2013 18: 34
    15
    Experienced leadership - who is this? Tukhachevsky is a major and a lover of personal kennels, or there may be an alcoholic Blucher, or there may be a thunderstorm of enemies, "the winner of the Germans" near Narva Dybenko, or Yakir, Frinovsky, Stern, etc. Stalin did the right thing, that he removed from power those who had become hungry and became dull from their holiness generals, now would do the same, there would be no Serdyukovs and others like him!
  • Stalinets
    Stalinets April 19 2013 05: 30
    0
    Mr. Trotskyist, you are not getting on with your head. Do not disgrace .. Well and so on .... fool
  • Dejavu
    Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 40
    +1
    No, his main merit was that he first planted them, and then returned them to their place :)) It probably dawned that a little was overdone and that convicts could build roads in Magadan, and not the senior officers of the tsarist army.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 19 2013 19: 20
      +4
      Quote: dejavu
      that he planted them first

      If someone doubts that foreign intelligence did not work in the territory of the pre-war USSR, that there were no recruits of a high-ranking general, officers, he was severely mistaken. Only Polish "defensiva" had a whole network of agents on the territory of Belarus, Ukraine, the European part of the USSR. K. Rokossovsky and "swept away" on the occasion of "Polish" origin. The rates of VERY RAPID advancement of the People's Commissar N. Yezhov and Marshal Kulik still raise questions like "who and how dragged them upstairs."
  • SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW April 18 2013 17: 21
    0
    Well this is unlikely! There would be people !!! The war was Patriotic, and that says a lot! For what the Germans did on our land, and even if without Stalin, I think ours would be fierce, and it seems to me without Stalin we would stop on the Atlantic
  • Dejavu
    Dejavu April 19 2013 05: 30
    0
    Is not a fact. I think Zhukov would have dragged along with a couple of marshals.
  • Suhov
    Suhov April 18 2013 11: 27
    +2
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Or is it the leader of our soldiers taught

    This is taught in the Army:
    Do not know how - teach
    Do not want to - Let's make it!
    hi
  • Uncle
    Uncle April 18 2013 17: 54
    0
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Well, what are you minus?

    I'm a plus.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 April 18 2013 18: 50
    0
    Minus the dastardly reception in the dispute. Contrasting things that don't really contradict one another. A person who poses questions like "have you stopped beating your wife" is extremely contemptuous. There is such a word - conscience. Russian word.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 18 2013 20: 54
      -1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      Minus the dastardly reception in the dispute. Contrasting things that don't really contradict one another. A person who poses questions like "have you stopped beating your wife" is extremely contemptuous.

      Are you talking to me? Please explain what is my meanness?
  • vjhbc
    vjhbc April 18 2013 19: 06
    0
    despite the fact that without a strong leader, a Russian herd of sheep which alone leads to slaughter, and all this is confirmed by history, a strong leader all shout, the Russian people won and how weak so they immediately forget about the people shout and peep and traitors at the top
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Well, what are you minus? Justify. And what about the de-stabilizers? Or is it the leader of our soldiers who taught me how to navigate in nature, to love melee, to endure frost and heat steadily, to fight to the last and blow myself up with pillboxes, i.e. to what the German warriors write about? The point is not even in relation to Stalin, he is a great figure. So where do the de-stabilizers?
  • ziqzaq
    ziqzaq April 18 2013 21: 15
    +1
    Quote: Vladimirets
    It’s not even about Stalin, he’s a great figure

    Stalin rallied the people around him and this allowed him to defeat the strongest army for that time .... If such a person comes and rallies the people of Russia, all the consequences of the actions of the liberals will be overcome in two or three years, and people subconsciously feel this .... I hope that HIS return is not far off ....
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq April 19 2013 16: 03
      0
      Russophobes minus set ......
  • Alex
    Alex 1 September 2013 22: 30
    +2
    Well, what are you minus? Justify.

    Yes, somehow too lazy to open a discussion. The big boy himself must understand the role of leadership in the life of the state. Or anyway: Stalin or, for example, Gorbachev ...
  • antidote
    antidote April 18 2013 18: 23
    +2
    Glory to Comrade Stalin and the Great Russian Soldier!
  • smile
    smile April 18 2013 19: 09
    0
    Vladimirets
    I did not minus ... but maybe it is not worth opposing Stalin and the fighting qualities of a Russian and Soviet soldier of a different nationality, eh? Are these mutually exclusive concepts? And your replica most likely was understood that way .. well, and the result is corresponding ..
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 18 2013 19: 35
      +1
      Quote: smile
      .but maybe it is not worth opposing Stalin and the fighting qualities of a Russian and Soviet soldier of a different nationality, eh? Are these mutually exclusive concepts?

      Excuse me, where did I contrast these concepts? From the very first post I say that the article is about our soldiers, without looking at and evaluating Stalin’s personality, as if not to relate to him. I haven’t singled out nationalities anywhere, our soldiers are soldiers of the Red Army.
      1. smile
        smile April 20 2013 12: 14
        0
        Vladimirets
        A common example of misunderstanding is the result of communication through the clave ... I must admit, too, you initially misunderstood ...
  • to4kavserdce
    to4kavserdce April 23 2013 10: 53
    0
    Glory to Putin ahahahahaaa
  • Aleks28
    Aleks28 April 18 2013 08: 49
    +3
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???

    This article shows the personal heroism of the RUSSIAN SOLDIER, not the "wise" leadership of Comrade. Stalin.
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 April 18 2013 10: 11
    -9
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???


    I'm here!
    And I continue to argue = well, nothing to do with it!

    A company died heroically in Chechnya! And that Yeltsin is "to blame" or is it thanks to his great leadership?
    1. Soldier
      Soldier April 18 2013 12: 26
      22
      Quote: nick 1 and 2
      A company died heroically in Chechnya! And that Yeltsin is "to blame"

      Still, it’s guilty that he allowed the war to begin, not at all sacred and not popular, when he declared, take sovereignty, how much you swallow. And we just pulled our strap and did the work. And this Judas is GUILTY in that he betrayed us all when in 1996 he made a “peace” with Maskhadov-Basayev’s bandits to stay for a second term. Okay, I’m Alive, and it’s a shame for the boys to tears.
    2. folds
      folds April 18 2013 14: 20
      0
      Remove quotes
  • Corsair
    Corsair April 18 2013 17: 38
    +6
    wink
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???
  • Uncle
    Uncle April 18 2013 17: 53
    +2
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???

    I didn’t find a word about Stalin and communism, only “Russians”!
  • de klermon
    de klermon April 18 2013 21: 42
    +1
    What does the de-Stalinizer have to do with it? The article is about something else: during the time of Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, Peter I, Field Marshal Saltykov (winner of Frederick the Great), Rumyantsev, Suvorov, Kutuzov, Skobelev, Brusilov, Zhukov and many other prominent Russian military commanders RUSSIAN SOLDIER has always remained a RUSSIAN SOLDIER! So what there has never been anywhere but Russia, and never will be!!!

    Remember the words of starley Arteniev from "Moonzund" V.S. Pikulya: "... Russia is alone and everyone needs to love it! .."!!!
  • wolk71
    wolk71 April 19 2013 18: 45
    +2
    So who will say that the Russian soldier was forced to go into battle by force? Is it possible to force to perform feats?
  • Skunk
    Skunk April 23 2013 22: 51
    0
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???

    And what does Stalin have to do with the quotes from the article? No one has ever mentioned his last name ... Therefore, there are no destalinizers winked There is nobody and nothing to de-stabilize.
  • Dart weyder
    Dart weyder April 18 2013 08: 10
    21
    What did you think !? - You’re in a fairy tale!? ...... if it didn’t start again .... Europe, you are already at the genetic level afraid of fighting Russia ...- here the Yankees are still not really beaten ......
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled April 18 2013 08: 19
      +5
      Quote: Dart Weyder
      Europe you are already at the genetic level afraid of Russia

      exactly angry only all this geyropa and for nothing Russia does not need!
  • plohoy
    plohoy April 18 2013 08: 13
    28
    “My God, what did these Russians intend to do with us? We'll all die here! .. ”
    This phrase must be remembered by all shit-democrats ...... ALL DYE !!!
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT April 18 2013 08: 17
    33
    Comments are superfluous, so to speak .... Glory to the Russian soldier !!!!
    another small addition

    I) "Diary" by Wilhelm Hoffmann. 267th regiment of 94th division:

    26 August: “The whole city is in fire. On the orders of the Führer, the Luftwaffe put him to fire. So they need this Russian and that they would stop resistance ...
    1 of September: “Are the Russians really going to fight on the very banks of the Volga? This is crazy. ”
    13 September. "The Russians are fighting with the despair of wild animals, they are not captured, but they are allowed to come close and then they throw them with grenades."
    16 of September: "... These are not people, but devils."

    Ii) Alan Clark. "The path to Stalingrad"
    Excerpts from the diary of a German soldier:
    “16 of September. Our battalion, along with the tanks, attacks the elevator, from which the smoke burns wheat. They say the Russians themselves set it on fire. The battalion suffers heavy losses. 60 people remained in their mouths. It’s not people fighting in the elevator, but the devils, which neither the bullet nor the fire takes.




    18 September. The fights are in the elevator itself. The Russians inside are doomed. Our commander says that the commissars ordered these people to fight to the end.
    If all the buildings in Stalingrad defend like this, not one of our soldiers will return home.

    20 September. The battle for the elevator continues. Russians are firing from all sides. We are sitting in the basement, you cannot get out into the street. Senior Sergeant Nushke was killed when he ran across the street. Poor thing, he has three children.

    22 September. Resistance in the elevator is broken. We found the corpses of forty killed Russians. Half of them in naval uniform are sea devils. “They took him seriously wounded, who cannot speak, or pretends to be captured.”
    1. Alexey K.
      Alexey K. April 18 2013 13: 44
      +6
      GLORY TO THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER!
      And they won because our soldier had the RUSSIAN SPIRIT, THERE RUSSIA SHOWS. And he fought for his SANCTUES: FAMILY AND CLOSE AND FAVORITE, FOR THE HOUSE, FOR THE RUSSIAN LAND, FOR FAITH, FOR THE FATHERLAND,
      1. Ram chandra
        Ram chandra April 24 2013 11: 00
        0
        Well, you don’t need to say only RUSSIA. Add at least one word in your 100 words RUSSIA RUSSIA AND ALLIES. Like that:
        "GLORY TO THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER!
        And we won because our soldier had a RUSSIAN SPIRIT, THERE DOES SMELL RUSSIA. And he fought for his shrines: relatives and friends and loved ones, for home, for the russian land, for faith, for the fatherland, and allies "
    2. Rider
      Rider April 18 2013 14: 09
      +5
      small addition

      The seventh myth. The German army did not respect its Russian opponents

      Still as respected. When the Germans ran out of food and ammunition in the cauldron, one of their resisting groups contacted their division and asked what they should do.

      The answer was: "Remember the Russians at the silo tower."

      The story of the Russians at the silo tower was as follows.

      71- Germans infantry division surrounded the warehouses of grain, which our soldiers defended. Three days after the encirclement, the Russian soldiers gave command of the radio that they had nothing to eat. To which we received the answer: “Fight and you will forget about hunger.”

      Three days later, the soldiers again handed over - "We do not have water, what should we do?".

      And again they received the answer: “The time has come, comrades, when food and drink will replace your mind and cartridges.”

      The defenders held out for two more days, after which they transmitted the last radiogram: "We have nothing more to shoot with."

      Five minutes later, the answer came: “The Soviet Union thanks you, your life was not meaningless” ...

      (All the facts from the book - H. Schrether Stalingrad. The great battle through the eyes of a war correspondent, M. Tsentrpoligraf, 2007)


      taken from here
      http://nstarikov.ru/blog/15672

      A big request to readers, explain how to make links clickable.

      pliiiz.
    3. smile
      smile April 18 2013 19: 47
      0
      JonnyT
      Once I came across excerpts from the text you quoted in the journal Rodina ... and I, burdock, forgot which one. If you remember, tell me where they can be found. In my opinion there should be a collection ...
  • Canep
    Canep April 18 2013 08: 30
    19
    I read somewhere on the net that Soviet troops massively surrendered in the 41st. And how do you like this:
    1. dddym
      dddym April 18 2013 08: 40
      16
      City then lol DOG! How did they not understand when 50 people got to the bottom of Russian? He needs to go! :)))
  • pensioner
    pensioner April 18 2013 08: 36
    11
    Well, when will something new on this topic appear? All this has already happened 1000 times. Somehow I came across the protocols of the interrogation of the crew of a German long-range reconnaissance officer shot down in Astrakhan at 42m. This is - yes, cool. Somewhere else to get the protocols of interrogation of prisoners. Units are posted in the internet. In a series of books about "Smersh" something was printed. I don't remember anymore. Only scattered excerpts from various sources. Where, for example, are the protocols of the interrogations of a huge number of Wehrmacht officers after the victory at Stalingrad or after Bagration? There is somewhere. Where? Well, such documents cannot be kept secret for so many years.
    1. Heccrbq
      Heccrbq April 18 2013 09: 57
      -1
      I somehow posted here this link of the Hermitage professor, a participant in the Second World War
      http://www.belousenko.com/books/nikulin/nikulin_vojna.htm
      Here I unearthed another book about that war, "Blood on the elbow. Red Cross of the Red Army" one of the stories was written by a political worker, you don't need to read, propaganda chewing gum
      http://www.likebook.ru/books/view/172064/?page=1
      1. wolk71
        wolk71 April 19 2013 19: 59
        +1
        I read the story of your professor and the opinion was that he alone was good, and the rest with a gangster mug, drunks and looters. It seems to be a Russian surname, but writes like ......
    2. augur
      augur April 18 2013 18: 40
      0
      http://www.solonin.org/docs/2
      There are good documents here, though more than German ones.
  • erased
    erased April 18 2013 08: 43
    12
    Recognizing a defeated enemy is not bad. But recognition of life is much more important, because it put everything in its place. The red banner over the Reichstag is the most important proof of the superiority of the Soviet soldier over the enemy!
  • Kpox
    Kpox April 18 2013 08: 59
    +3
    Courage is courage inspired by spirituality .... Perseverance .... is akin to some animal instinct. The Russians have always been like that, and most likely will always be like that. ”


    Most likely, most likely .....
  • saveall
    saveall April 18 2013 09: 14
    +8
    Yes, the courage of a Russian soldier has always been at the highest level. How is it now? This question always torments me for some reason ... We are proud of our fathers and grandfathers, our victories - this is a great thing, but how would we behave now if such a war starts now. Wouldn’t we be ashamed then to look into the eyes of our grandfathers and fathers, even if in the next world?
    1. ULxaw86
      ULxaw86 April 18 2013 09: 37
      +4
      Quote: saveall
      Yes, the courage of a Russian soldier has always been at the highest level. How is it now?

      Need motivation! For me, this is home, family, my homeland.
      1. saveall
        saveall April 18 2013 09: 45
        14
        I would like everyone to think so ... For many, this motivation now lies on different planes than the family and the Motherland.

        SONG OF ALEXEI REGION
        Let the bullets whistle, blood pour
        May death carry grenades
        We boldly move forward
        We are Russian soldiers.

        In us is the blood of the fathers - heroes,
        And it’s our right,
        We will be able to defend the honor
        Or die with glory.

        Do not cry for us, Holy Russia,
        No tears, no need
        Pray for the fallen and the living
        Prayer is our reward!
        1. ULxaw86
          ULxaw86 April 18 2013 10: 53
          +4
          It is present. We are instilled with a foreign lifestyle! The cult of clothes ... glamor is everywhere ... promiscuous sex ... a ninth-grader will be laughed at if she is still a girl ... etc.
          You see, soon the Russian soldier will refuse to go into battle without chewing gum of a glass of Pepsi wassat
          1. folds
            folds April 18 2013 14: 26
            +2
            We are instilled with a foreign lifestyle! The cult of clothes ... glamor is everywhere ... promiscuous sex ... a ninth-grader will be laughed at if she is still a girl ... and so on
            "Jeans, sneakers, a fashionable gadget, Internet access, everything that is needed for those who are only 20 years old" - a cool broadcast, so funny ...
    2. Alexey K.
      Alexey K. April 18 2013 13: 47
      +3
      Don't be afraid - don't be ashamed. Remember at least the 6th company of the Pskov paratroopers who died in the Argun gorge and did not let the enemy pass, the submariners of the Kursk nuclear submarine who died in the exercises and many other heroes.
  • snow779
    snow779 April 18 2013 09: 16
    12
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Quote: avia12005
    And where are "our" destalinizers ???

    And will you now shout glory to Comrade Stalin or glory to the Russian soldier?

    MANDATORY !!!
  • ed65b
    ed65b April 18 2013 09: 45
    +3
    Or maybe there were no interrogations. What distracting the next people, they interrogated the top, led by the pauls, and that's enough. What an ordinary and a non-commissioned soldier in the trench can know more than the field marshal. And the number of prisoners was great. Feed everyone, treat, place, stage, protect. and then interrogations, interrogations. therefore, memories often come from letters and self-written diaries.
    1. smile
      smile April 18 2013 19: 53
      +3
      ed65b
      No, interrogations were based on them, as well as letters, diaries, various reports were compiled. which were actively used. Moreover, a significant array of source materials has been preserved.
  • cahekmosa
    cahekmosa April 18 2013 09: 46
    +5
    Thank you for the article. cool, and about how things are now go to the site http://www.warheroes.ru/ and read about guys who have years of death after 2000 and who were under twenty
  • NKVD
    NKVD April 18 2013 09: 50
    15
    Daaaaa solidly crap Stolzhenitsyn Stalin’s army and country. It was the same as crap in the camps. Obviously he was not one of those about whom the article. Stalin was great, he brought up the army and people. He didn’t rob his country like the current democrats.
    1. smile
      smile April 18 2013 20: 04
      +4
      NKVD
      Solzhenitsyn speaks a last name, from the word to lie. What authenticity can there be in really disruptive literature ...
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 18 2013 21: 07
        +6
        Quote: smile
        What authenticity can there be in really disruptive literature ...

        Yeah ...
        Especially about the cries of Yaroslavl in Russian villages when the Magyar garrison left them ...
        What would the devils and in the next world "love" as the Hungarians our prisoners and our civilian population ...
  • pinecone
    pinecone April 18 2013 10: 11
    +6
    Historically, the stubbornness and stamina of the Russian soldier was based on the Russian village. To date, the foundation has been undermined. Employees of shopping and entertainment centers and sales managers are not the best contingent for staffing the army.
  • Strashila
    Strashila April 18 2013 10: 33
    +7
    Bravery is courage inspired by spirituality. The persistence with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their bunkers in Sevastopol is akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or education. Russians have always been like that and most likely will always be like that»

    Josef Goebbels

    Not everything must be banned from Izi
  • Drappier
    Drappier April 18 2013 10: 36
    14
    Unfortunately, mercenary is another smith who forged the definition of a Russian soldier wassat and as always, the hammer from the anvil bounced into his forehead ...
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic April 18 2013 21: 30
      +3
      Quote: Drapper
      Unfortunately, merchandise is another smith who forged the definition of a Russian soldier and, as always, he bounced the hammer from the anvil into his forehead ...


      Well said .. Worthy of the aphorisms of the Great .. +
      1. Drappier
        Drappier April 21 2013 14: 09
        0
        This is from the heart, a momentary turbidity, I just both grandfathers fought, one in Stalingrad, left without legs at 17, the other in the same 17 years weighing 40 kilos from Buchenwald went to the ranks of the Red Army ...
  • pensioner
    pensioner April 18 2013 11: 17
    +3
    Quote: Drapper
    Unfortunately, merchandise is another smith who forged the definition of a Russian soldier and, as always, he bounced the hammer from the anvil into his forehead ...

    Well said. I will remember.
    1. Drappier
      Drappier April 18 2013 11: 27
      +7
      I came up with it, honestly) thanks.
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 18 2013 22: 30
        0
        Can I use it? The phrase really hurt ..... +++++++++++++++++++ good
        1. Drappier
          Drappier April 21 2013 14: 02
          0
          Yes, thanks, did not expect.
  • Roll
    Roll April 18 2013 11: 25
    11
    bully The main merit of Stalin, that he prepared the country for war, the methods were cruel, but effective. Collective farms and industry provided the conditions for victory. The new generation that emerged was second to none in the sense of military training (all for airplanes, the work of DOSEAF), nor ideological. As for the execution of executives. France did not shoot its cadres and nevertheless surrendered in a couple of weeks, although it surpassed the Nazi forces by many, and unlike the USSR, which was ready only for attack, France was preparing for defense. Then only Stalin could attract allies and create a coalition and neutralize Japan and Turkey. Therefore, the role of Stalin in the victory is huge, despite his methods and mistakes.
    1. Snoop
      Snoop April 18 2013 11: 59
      +5
      I agree. Without diminishing the importance of the courage and bravery of the Red Army and Red Army commanders, and then of the Soviet soldiers and officers, one cannot be defeated by courage alone. To win, you need a reliable state system. A historical fact - the political system of the USSR was stronger than the Third Reich.
    2. Shuriken
      Shuriken April 18 2013 13: 26
      +5
      And what is wrong with the “methods?” Putin has no methods, and how many m.r.a.z.i. who plundered the country get high on the loose? And the “mistakes”, apparently, ensured the victory and restoration of the country to such time, that the world gasped! ... Only about the GULAG is not necessary ... But Stalin was a leader with a capital letter. What is the function of a leader? To entrust the execution of the task and control the execution. If he didn’t manage to answer! And the answer is adequate to the time and situation. And everything worked! For it is impossible to manage a huge country in "manual mode", it will not be enough for the whole country! So who is stopping now from introducing the personal responsibility of an executive officer? And you say the methods are not the same ...
  • Roll
    Roll April 18 2013 11: 31
    16 th
    fellow As for the courage of the Russian soldier, this topic is debatable. Yes, 20 percent were brave and courageous, but there were another 60 percent who surrendered, look at the columns of Soviet prisoners at the beginning of the war, at the crowd in a panic fleeing to the rear, gunshots and deserters. On a bunch of rifles pierced with bayonets into the ground. on officers who abandoned troops to their fate. Conclusion all heroism was counterbalanced by cowardice and sloppiness, otherwise we would have driven the fascists back in August 1941, we had enough strength and capabilities.
    1. xan
      xan April 18 2013 11: 56
      +3
      it was
      dofiga was offended by the Soviet regime, there were also muzzled looking at their commanders-nominees-on-repressions, there were commanders-captains, which were more useful for the country to shoot. The whole batch is that those 20 percent were enough for victory, and the power, led by Stalin, was not at a loss and was able to mobilize the country to the fullest.
    2. dddym
      dddym April 18 2013 12: 12
      -1
      Well, almost to the point if not for one thing - but the Reich had enough sloppiness. The fact that they gave up little when they were lucky - more than paid off when they stopped driving. The morale of the soldier also depends on the number and quality of victories. In the 41st, would you say? What if some of the Wehrmacht generals did not question Hitler's direct orders? And if Hitler himself did not make "stupid" orders? Maybe we won't be saved then? All this is speculation. As the generals of the Wehrmacht then made excuses - they say the weather let down! I already wrote about the new weapon of the Germans - not in the number of their strength was but in the weapon of the new generation "Blitzkrieg".
      1. dddym
        dddym April 18 2013 13: 17
        0
        And then something like that? :)))
    3. Alexey K.
      Alexey K. April 18 2013 14: 00
      0
      Dear specialist in determining the percent of courage and masculinity of a Russian soldier, I would be embarrassed to write such nonsense and nonsense. A large number of prisoners in the initial period of the war is explained not by lack of courage but not completely prepared for war: officers were destroyed during repressions, the troops were in field camps and without proper weapons, propaganda was that the war would be fought on the territory of the enemy, and in general we would throw his hats, the enemy’s best communications in the troops, motorized divisions, unlike our pedestrians, and new tactics of warfare — tank wedges. And despite all this, our Russian soldier managed to recover from defeat and learned to fight and WIN,
    4. antidote
      antidote April 18 2013 18: 57
      +1
      Basically, the columns consisted of mobilized residents of the western regions of Ukraine and Belarus, those former citizens of Poland. No wonder
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 18 2013 19: 26
        +4
        Quote: antidot
        consisted of people mobilized from the inhabitants of the western regions of Ukraine and Belarus, those former citizens of Poland.

        Which initially raised their hands in front of the first motorcyclist from the reconnaissance squad, without firing a single shot ...
  • Gazprom
    Gazprom April 18 2013 11: 33
    +2
    Quote: Greyfox
    Greyfox (3) Today, 08:08 ↑
    According to the memoirs of Guderian, Middeldorf, Mellenthin, Manstein and Tippelskirch

    well done, only I wanted to add it.

    ps, but what about the famous from Heinz "Women in uniform are subject to execution"?
    In short, they treated like cattle, they did not count people. and after the war they began to look for the guilty, poor selection.
  • Suhov
    Suhov April 18 2013 11: 37
    -2
    Russian soldiers through the eyes of the Germans

    soldier

    And they .........
    1. Gazprom
      Gazprom April 18 2013 11: 47
      +3
      And they .........

      this is a movie in general, "The Bridge" 1959, this is a shkololo, which they left to plug the unnecessary bridge, and then the Americans come there,
      if they were all like that, then then we were busy for 4 years then?
      1. Suhov
        Suhov April 18 2013 12: 53
        +2
        Quote: Gazprom
        this movie in general

        Generally it is an artistic image ...

        Quote: Gazprom
        if they were all like that

        Not all.

        Quote: Gazprom
        if they were all like that, well we then 4 years fumbling then?

        We? You didn’t get anything wrong?
        Мы not "fiddled", but fought. And we won!
        In general, they gave the Nazis a snot!
        hi
        1. vlasov70
          vlasov70 April 18 2013 15: 13
          +7
          Not us, but They. Our great-grandfathers or grandfathers, depending on our age. And we pissed away the country that they created, defended and restored. And somehow under His guidance. But in general I agree with you.
  • xan
    xan April 18 2013 11: 42
    +6
    Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. The persistence with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol is akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or education. Russians have always been like that and, most likely, will always remain like that ”(Goebels)

    All the worse for the enemies, you can say a paragraph in general.
    I would like Goebbels to be right about "always"
  • pensioner
    pensioner April 18 2013 11: 50
    +2
    Quote: Drapper
    I came up with it, honestly) thanks.

    Well then, well done.
  • knn54
    knn54 April 18 2013 11: 53
    0
    Michael ... all heroism was balanced by cowardice and sloppiness,
    1. xan
      xan April 18 2013 22: 25
      +1
      Quote: knn54
      Michael ... all heroism was balanced by cowardice and sloppiness,

      Our victory, which means our heroism was enough for both our sloppiness and cowardice, and German heroism
  • Gazprom
    Gazprom April 18 2013 11: 57
    +2
    Quote: knn54
    Michael ... all heroism was balanced by cowardice and sloppiness,

    I would say that cowardice, sloppiness and mistakes of some are corrected by the heroism of others
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil April 18 2013 12: 24
    +7
    It is interesting why, under the leadership of the "bloody tyrant and stupid party member" Stalin, the Russian soldier won, and under the leadership of the "Holy Martyr Suffering for the Russian people and a gifted commander" Nicholas 2, with his brilliant generals and ADMIRAL, managed to miss all that is possible and that is impossible , arrange a Revolution, etc. It may already be worthwhile to look the truth in the eye and understand that it is the leadership of this very Russian soldier that has a decisive role. By the way, I don’t understand why they don’t like Suvorov’s books so much, because in them he speaks directly, that a Russian soldier could perform any task, that Stalin was no idiot, and what if he planned to attack Germany, so what? Getting married and getting married are two different things. The USSR won the war, destroyed the Nazis, drove the Japanese to their islands, so the Russian soldier is better, and in my opinion this is an elementary conclusion.
    1. Roll
      Roll April 18 2013 12: 49
      -5
      am Hi, I don’t understand why everyone turned up against Suvorov, pasted the traitor’s label on him. What a traitor he is, how Polyakov handed over the residency, how Bakatin passed the embassy wiretaps. The dough unnecessarily took out as oligarchs. Whom did he betray? In general, the topic of betrayal is very complex and not accessible to many. The fact that Rezun, who suffered from paranoia, left for England to express his ideas. Well, in the USSR he wouldn’t be allowed to write such books, his relations with the GRU are a closed order and there are their own laws. As for his thoughts that the USSR wanted to attack Germany, his arguments are convincing. In general, there is only one method that speaks of the possibility of an attack.
      1. Roll
        Roll April 18 2013 12: 57
        -2
        bully This is a radio signal. If in Germany on June 22 Hitler would not give a radio signal to Dortmund, and Berlin would not attack Russia, we would now be wondering if the fascists would attack us on June 22 or not. If the USSR planned to attack Germany later than June 28, in principle, there can be no evidence. If you look at Zhukov’s memoirs when, when attacking the Japanese, the headquarters received secret orders, then even the headquarters of the divisions received orders 2 days before the attack. The fascists have the same principle. The division commanders received an order to attack the USSR in 2 days, but without the confirmation signal received 6 hours before the attack, this is nonsense.
        1. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 18 2013 22: 53
          +1
          I will simply answer you - all these grief historians like Rezun do not take into account elementary things - for example, the "Steel Pact", according to which, in the event of aggression against Germany, Japan automatically entered the war ... The result is a war on 2 fronts ... I hope to explain further no need ... And + to everything - if the USSR became the aggressor - then the entire western camarilla, squealing and howling with happiness, would immediately side with Germany (I mean the USA and the UK)
      2. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 18 2013 13: 31
        +4
        Quote: Rolm
        I don’t understand why everybody took up arms against Suvorov,

        I’m afraid, damn it, I’ll stick with the minuses ... recourse
        Suvorov-Rezun was one of the first to raise the issue of "rereading" materials about the Great Patriotic War.
        And everyone’s business is to agree with him or not.
        Data everyone knows, or almost everyone.
        Rђ RІRѕS, conclusions are made almost diametrically opposite.
        1. Vladimir73
          Vladimir73 April 18 2013 19: 06
          +4
          and he perfectly learned to operate only with the facts that suit him and not notice those facts that do not fit into his version of events !!!! No.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 18 2013 19: 28
            +3
            Quote: Vladimir73
            who suit him and not notice those facts that do not fit into his version of events !!!

            So homo sapiens and should think, draw conclusions from what he saw and read.
        2. smile
          smile April 18 2013 20: 26
          +7
          stalkerwalker
          You see, if Rezun had not deliberately distorted all the quotes, invented facts, did not lie recklessly about jackal planes, did not name products with the letter "a" on his blue eye as motorway tanks, gradually explaining that we are. by their bloodthirsty nature, they almost seized the planet (Hitler interfered), but if this traitor had not worked for MI6 during the writing of his fabrications, then it would have been possible to argue whether he was right or not ... and so ... you, by the way, know that this defector still promises in an interview with the Ukrainian media to pick up a machine gun and go kill the komunnyak if we go to conquer the world - nothing has changed for him - he was an enemy of the USSR, now Russia ... for Judas - no matter ... it's an enemy of our country .. our people .. your and mine ... how can you believe him, hanging your ears?
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 18 2013 21: 00
            +6
            Quote: smile
            this is the enemy of our country .. our people .. yours and mine ... how can you believe him by hanging your ears?

            Dear smile (smile on the profile picture is impressive smile )!
            In no case do I JUSTIFY the traitor Rezun.
            And my opinion about him as a person does not differ from yours.
            But his argumentation, with the name-calling of airplanes, the "bloodthirsty" plans of the USSR, you must agree, is worthy of study.
            I even confess that I read all of his books published before the start of the 2000s.
            After that I bought the Tank Encyclopedia, I began to buy memoirs about the Great Patriotic War and the Second World War. And it turned out that this it will not be enough to understand what happened. In general - like everyone else.
            Today I have fewer questions than answers ...
            It seems to me that the false Suvorov, with his "stone in our garden", caused such diverging circles that he ALREADY drowned in his own lies.
            hi
            1. smile
              smile April 18 2013 22: 07
              +6
              stalkerwalker
              Well answered, thank you .. pleased that. it turns out that Rezunov’s lies are useful .. :)))) I also read right up to take my words back .. naive, I thought he would repent :))))
              Advice, excuse me, if you have not read it, be sure to read the following books:
              Rodent "How Viktor Suvorov Composed History"
              Ulanov, Shein "Order in the tank forces"
              SuRov "Aquarium 2"
              Grigoriev "On the military-technical aspects of Suvorov's books. Did Stalin prepare an offensive war against Hitler ..."
              after that you will see that in all your writings the rezun lies corny .. no, not so virtuoso lies on the instructions of employers .. it turned out well, you see how his insinuations are rooted .. :))))
              the most complete in detail his total intentional lie reveals the 1st book ...
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker April 18 2013 22: 32
                +6
                Quote: smile
                in all of his writings, Rezun is corny lying .. no, not so virtuoso a lie

                Thank you, smile!
                I'll try.
                Already read Surov - impressed. The Baltic theme of the 1939-1991 period, especially in today's aspect, is very relevant.
                As for Rezun, it’s just a boycott: don’t buy books, don’t mention the name.
                Good luck!
    2. dddym
      dddym April 18 2013 13: 52
      -1
      I'm so careful ... "Nicholas's Baba Syndrome happened" :) oh don't kick in the face! :))))
    3. xan
      xan April 20 2013 20: 02
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      The USSR won the war, destroyed the Nazis, drove the Japanese to their islands, so the Russian soldier is better, and in my opinion this is an elementary conclusion.

      I also think that if men are shit in the country, then an army cannot be created.
      Bismarck correctly said, I don’t remember how cool it is - the school teacher wins the war first.
  • Kahlan amnell
    Kahlan amnell April 18 2013 12: 45
    +4
    "For a long time, we, the Greeks, have called these heroes - Rosich or Rus. Rosy men are valiant warriors. During the raids, it is possible to take a few slaves from these Slavs, because they all prefer death to captivity."
    Zachariah Ritor, V century.
  • PROXOR
    PROXOR April 18 2013 12: 49
    +1
    The words of the Wehrmacht commissar commanders testify that our troops fought fiercely in the summer of 1941. In general, in the summer of 1941, two worthy opponents converged on the battlefield. Behind the Wehrmacht was experience - vast experience. We have the strength and the desire to win. Having survived 1941 and 1942 in 1943, we showed the Wehrmacht what we learned in two years.
    1. Roll
      Roll April 18 2013 13: 19
      -2
      tongue That's right, only at least the Wehrmacht’s ground forces had no experience, two weeks of war with France and a couple with Poland was not experience. We fought with Japan, with the Finns, with Poland, and we also had experience and more German. But in tactics, in combat training, we really were very inferior. It’s difficult to train 20 tank crews, and 000 is much easier. The level of training of personnel units was extremely weak. Soviet soldiers knew how to sweep the parade ground, go to the outfits, march, but the combat training was lame. And we did not know how to establish interaction between the individual branches of the armed forces. That's the problem.
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR April 18 2013 14: 28
        +4
        Quote: Rolm
        That's right, only at least the Wehrmacht’s ground forces had no experience, two weeks of war with France and a couple with Poland was not experience. We fought with Japan, with the Finns, with Poland, and we also had experience and more German. But in tactics, in combat training, we really were very inferior. It’s difficult to train 20 tank crews, and 000 is much easier. The level of training of personnel units was extremely weak. Soviet soldiers knew how to sweep the parade ground, go to the outfits, march, but the combat training was lame. And we did not know how to establish interaction between the individual branches of the armed forces. That's the problem.


        I do not agree. In the summer of 1940, the Wehrmacht ground forces entered into confrontation not only with the French troops but also with the British. Manstein was imposing a fight on the enemy; it was not for nothing that he was considered the best operational mind of the 3rd Reich. and just drove the main grouping of protinik to the north coast of France leaving only one road. Across the strait. After their evacuation, the road to Paris was open. Could an inexperienced army be able to bend the two leading armies of Europe with such ease.
        Now about the experience gained by our commanders in the Spanish and Finnish companies. Let's start from the very beginning. The leadership of the Red Army was fairly cleaned, and many experienced commanders were put to the wall. The 1939 war with Finland showed all the destructiveness of that purge. The Red Army did not have experienced non-armament commanders to crack the enemy’s defense. It was thanks to the winter company of 1939 that there was a rethinking of the generally qualitative and quantitative composition of the Red Army. I want to note the fact that the main striking force of the ground forces - tanks that could adequately conduct offensive tactics in the Red Army were absent. The only T28 turned out to be any real. Which still had to sheathe additional armor.
        From the foregoing, I note. If the summer of 1941 can be attributed to a literate first strike of the Wehrmacht, which overnight deprived us of aviation as intelligence and as a result of the Red Army could not build tactics to counter the enemy. In the summer of 1942, we fought for a year already and we had intelligence.
        And the summer of 1943, namely the battle on the Kursk Bulge, showed how Manstein, with a smaller number, almost broke through all 3 lines of defense. The 5th tank Rotmisterova actually saved the situation while losing 2/3 of its composition.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 18 2013 15: 24
          +7
          Quote: PROXOR
          the battle on the Kursk Bulge showed how Manstein, with smaller numbers, almost broke through all 3 lines of defense. The 5ya tank Rotmisterova actually saved the situation while losing 2 / 3 of its composition.

          And after Prokhorovka the situation remained ambiguous.
          The transition to the offensive of the Red Army in the Oryol direction forced the Germans to withdraw troops and transfer them to the direction of Oryol-Bryansk.
          By the way. In the region of Karachev, Soviet cavalrymen (not in horse ranks!) Put out of action about 20 (I don’t remember exactly) vaunted Panthers - this is for those who still believe in the "fairy tales" of the smart Heinz.
          1. PROXOR
            PROXOR April 18 2013 15: 40
            +5
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            And after Prokhorovka, the situation remained ambiguous. The transition to the offensive of the Red Army in the Oryol direction forced the Germans to withdraw troops and transfer them to the Oryol-Bryansk direction.

            Not quite so. The model was transferred all reserves for two groups. The model was not in vain assuring Hitler that starting an attack he would confront the enemy twice as large as himself and even with an open flank. As soon as our troops hit the Model on the left, he was forced to start a retreat. He was mainly covered by aviation. The tank divisions simply could not resist to confront our tank brigades. And the reserves were located just in the new fortified areas near Bryansk.
            Now about the South. Manstein for the last throw gathered all his tank divisions in one fist. 7 to mine. It was this kulag who almost broke the 3rd line of defense. The TVET from the opposite side of the Psel River stopped them. If it weren’t for the 5th Panzer Division, the SS division The dead head would cross the river, destroy the TVET, and then the road would be open to her. The wisdom of the German commanders is that they chose the best site for the oblrons. And only the courage of our Tangkists, violating all the laws of warfare that the Germans knew, allowed them to drive the enemy out from under Prokhorovka. The 5th tank practically ceased to exist after this attack.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker April 18 2013 16: 28
              +5
              Quote: PROXOR
              5ya tank practically ceased to exist after this attack.

              1. I don't argue. For the loss of almost 300 tanks, Stalin wanted to almost shoot Rotmistrov. He calmed down only when he was "reported" that the Germans had lost about 500 tanks. From here the legend walks.
              2. Prokhorovka remained with the Germans.
              3. Even on the eve of the battle, Manstein was losing a counterstrike to his right flank when turning to Oboyan. Therefore, the panzerwaffen deliberately "substituted" for a frontal blow. Well, then - according to the written.
              hi
            2. ATATA
              ATATA April 18 2013 16: 34
              +3
              Quote: PROXOR
              And only the courage of our Tangkists, violating all the laws of warfare that the Germans knew, allowed them to drive the enemy out from under Prokhorovka.

              For obvious reasons, the German exploits were not reported.

              Self-sacrifice and "victory at any cost" were not promoted in Germany until about 44. Therefore, nothing is known about the feats like Talalikhinsky, Ghatellovsky or sailors, committed by the Germans during that period.
              But at the end of the war, there were similar cases. There were even squadrons of suicide fighters (Rammjager). Entering them, the pilots swore an oath in each battle to shoot down at least one enemy bomber, and if it was not possible to do this with cannons, then ram the enemy. The famous ace Heinrich Erler died in the spring of 45 in the ramming of the American "Flying Fortress" (although he was part of the "regular" air defense squadron). His last words were: "I have run out of ammunition, I'm going to ram, see you in Valhalla!"

              Opponents must be respected.
              1. ATATA
                ATATA April 18 2013 16: 55
                0
                Something like this. And the opponents are the same people.
        2. ATATA
          ATATA April 18 2013 16: 31
          +3
          Quote: PROXOR
          I want to note the fact that the main striking force of the ground forces - tanks that could adequately conduct offensive tactics in the Red Army were absent.

          Here from this place in more detail.
          How many tanks did the Red Army have? which ones? And their comparison with the performance characteristics of mass German tanks and their number.
          Can?
  • gych
    gych April 18 2013 12: 50
    10
    I’m watching some heroes gather here? How do you dare to discuss those people regardless of the nation? Cowardice, sloppiness, say, so the cowards snatched victory from the enemy? Damn the heroes of the army, you can’t squeeze anyone into the army, not even talking about the price of your life save another! and then everything from small to old! it’s not disgusting for ourselves from such a thing! war is not romantic, not beautiful and in most of the heroes die first
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 18 2013 13: 34
      +4
      Quote: gych
      how dare you discuss those people regardless of nation

      Right bro!
      ".. The heroes are not you ...". Alas...
      The moral-volitional level of today and the "then" differ like cutlets and flies.
      hi
      1. Black
        Black April 18 2013 20: 56
        +2
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        The moral-volitional level of today and the "then" differ like cutlets and flies.

        It is not necessary to measure everything cylindrical with one vernier caliper.
        Moral and strong-willed at the normal level in the Russian Army. The time is now peaceful (well, relatively), "they will hit the drum" - both we and our boys will fight no worse than our grandfathers.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 18 2013 21: 48
          +4
          Quote: Chen
          both we and our boys will fight no worse than our grandfathers.

          God forbid that it was so, if suddenly "Tomorrow is war" ...
          But I DO NOT even compare the moral-volitional component of our society today with what this component was 30 years ago.
          I am afraid that no one will give you, or me, or our boys in time to mobilize. Every year, with every decade, the timing of the deployment of the main forces "melts" like snow in April.
    2. vlasov70
      vlasov70 April 18 2013 15: 18
      +4
      In those days, the army did not take shame not only for you, but for the entire village! It was considered an honor to be a warrior, to defend their country. And now "honor" is a banker or an official with no honor.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker April 18 2013 16: 34
        +3
        Quote: vlasov70
        In those days, the army did not take shame, not only for you

        Yes ...
        There was a case.
        The girls just didn't marry - "They didn't even take him into the army ... ha-ha-ha"
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya April 18 2013 12: 54
    +4
    GLORY TO THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER! SOLDIER TO THE WINNER!
  • rennim
    rennim April 18 2013 12: 55
    +4
    The courage and resilience of the Russian (Soviet) soldier is not in doubt. I think that the presence of commissars in units during the Second World War also played a decisive role. Not for nothing that the Germans called them fanatics under the control of commissars. That's why they shot right away ... Special thanks to the Commissioners of the AC and Eternal Glory !!!
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 April 21 2013 17: 59
      +1
      Quote: rennim
      I think that the presence of commissars in units during the Second World War also played a decisive role.

      Here is what I.F. writes in his memoirs. Stadnyuk:
      "It was difficult for me to part with my cherished dream ..! And then the war broke out. The days of the hardest trials came. The reality turned out to be very far from the pictures that my enthusiastic imagination recently drew. But in this terrible reality the image of the commissar and political instructor did not in the least lose the delightful Moreover, the youthful fantasy turned out to be the poorest of all that happened.
      I am deeply convinced that the tremendous role that political workers played in the initial period of the Great Patriotic War, especially senior political workers, the commissars, has not yet been appreciated. As a participant in the tragic events that took place in June 1941 west of Minsk, I came up with the feeling that if there hadn’t been commissioners with us, everything would have turned out to be a hundred times more tragic. At the same time, I do not want to belittle the role of commanders, who, in the utter confusion and bloody turmoil, had enough work to clarify the constantly changing situation and organize resistance to the enemy. However, since already in the first days a considerable part of our troops turned out to be fragmented, it was very important, as it turned out, to see not only the political officers of the company, but the commissars of battalions and regiments ahead of the counterattack chains. Realizing that the main task is to delay the enemy, slow down the pace of his advance to the east, they stopped people and calmly, but with a certain categorical order, ordered (even to commanders) to deploy in battle formations to the right and left of the highways and dig in. At the same time, they themselves remained here until the end, continued to build up their forces, and helped commanders bring people into a combat state.
      It seems that there was no busy intersection, no crossing over the river, no barrier that was thrown out towards the enemy, where the voice of a man with a red star on his sleeve could not be heard. They were involved in everything, everywhere they found themselves an urgent matter. "
  • Black
    Black April 18 2013 13: 03
    +5
    "Commissars" and "beyond the river" were in front. Their role is great, if they are honestly fighting.
  • Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx April 18 2013 13: 36
    +1
    One of the Soviet tanks approached the howitzer on 100 meters. The gunners opened fire on him and got hit - it's like lightning struck. The tank stopped. “We knocked him out,” the gunners breathed a sigh of relief. Suddenly, someone from the calculation of the gun screamed heart-rending: “He went again!” Indeed, the tank came to life and began to approach the gun. Another minute, and the tank's shiny metal caterpillars smashed a howitzer into the ground like a toy. Having settled down with the weapon, the tank continued on its way as if nothing had happened. ”

    The question is ... Why didn’t they shoot? Or were there no shells? And if not, then why not?
    Recently, the Internet began to appear infa about the possible betrayal of part of the Russian command on the Western Front, so the question is this.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 18 2013 14: 20
      +5
      Quote: Trapper7
      Why not shoot? Or were there no shells?

      It seems like ....
      Notice that we already managed to bring the howitzer, and get ready for firing, and shoot at the tank.
      The optics quality of tank periscopes and sights left much to be desired. On the first samples of the T-34, they tried to install polished metal plates instead of mirrors (they say they’re not cracked).
      About the engine B-2 put in a word.
      By the 41st, its resource at the stand was 100 (one hundred) hours. And in the field it "sagged" up to 40-70 hours.
      Plus crew training affected.
      If a tank left the battle with up to 200 hits on the hull and turret, this indicates that the tankers "did not see" those who fired at the tank. And 105-mm hull guns and 88-mm anti-aircraft guns on direct fire no longer forgave this "blindness".
  • Rubik
    Rubik April 18 2013 14: 45
    0
    Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. The stubbornness with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol is akin to a certain animal instinct, and it would be a profound mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik beliefs or upbringing. Russians have always been like that and most likely they will always remain so. ”


    It seems to me alone that the Russians have long been wrong? Especially youth.
  • ars_pro
    ars_pro April 18 2013 15: 09
    +3
    THANK THE GRANFATHER FOR THE VICTORY!!!
    Our partisans are the most portizian portizans !!!
  • polida
    polida April 18 2013 15: 30
    +6
    It turned out successfully stubbornness of the people and the will of Stalin
    My great-grandfather went missing near Mgoy
    My husband’s grandfather died near LENINGRAD in October - a gray funeral at home as a relic ...
  • polida
    polida April 18 2013 15: 34
    +2
    My great-grandfather went missing under Mgoy
    My husband’s grandfather died in October 41 at LENINGRAD
    Without our people, Stalin would not have left ...
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 18 2013 15: 41
      +3
      Plusanul for an avatar bully
  • hanc
    hanc April 18 2013 15: 50
    +2
    Amazing number of comments on the article!
    And, which is characteristic of everything with knowledge of the subject, I suppose that all commenters are the very same Russian soldiers.
    I will allow myself to add a little bit: a soldier (officer, general) is, first of all, a man, and you can’t hide and overcome human nature. For the first time, everyone is scared, and the nippers shake and remember the prayers that I did not know. But then you begin to understand that not everything is so scary, that is, of course scary, but not so limitless.
    I think that this fear is the same for everyone: both Russians and Germans and British and Americans, etc. etc. But how it is further overcome - this is the essence. But even so, I would not talk about the exclusively Russian ability to perform a feat, rather, we can talk about the cultural component, within which feats were performed by soldiers of different nationalities. Confirmation of this - the mass and not only in World War II.
    Guys, no need to fall into chauvinism. Russian is a nationality, a Russian is a state of mind.
  • Taz
    Taz April 18 2013 16: 19
    +3
    Quote: hanc
    Guys, no need to fall into chauvinism. Russian is a nationality, a Russian is a state of mind.
    Maybe the opposite? Is a Russian a nationality, a Russian a state of mind?
    1. hanc
      hanc April 18 2013 16: 38
      +4
      No, it’s in this order: Russian is a nationality, and a Russian is a state of mind. There can be many nationalities, nations, nationalities in a country, but together they make up one people, citizens of one country, which happened during the Great Patriotic War.
  • Kalita
    Kalita April 18 2013 16: 21
    +5
    "Throughout their history, Russians have invariably shown extraordinary tenacity and perseverance in defense, without being distinguished by a special ability to act offensively. Defense is the essence of their national character. They are insensitive like animals. Deprivation and poverty are the usual conditions of their existence, and therefore the Russians not so much clinging to life. The life of an ordinary person is less valued there than a bicycle. A high birth rate allows you to quickly make up for any losses. Russians have a primitive tenacity that should not be confused with courage. Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. Tenacity, with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol, akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a deep mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik convictions or upbringing. Russians have always been like this, and most likely will always remain so. In addition, it is not so difficult to give your life when there is not even a glimmer of hope in it, except for the mirage of a distant paradise, which beckons evenin a moment of danger. "- Here is the text of the full text of Goebbels's quote. I just don't want anyone to have a wrong opinion about this villain based on the quote taken out of context. WE are animals for him.
    1. Vladimir73
      Vladimir73 April 18 2013 19: 01
      +2
      Our grandfathers therefore fought so desperately, because understood that for Germans we are animals that prevent them from living.
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 18 2013 23: 54
        +3
        And not so much for the Germans, but for the West in general ... As M. Kalashnikov correctly wrote, for us we are ORCs (if you take Tolkien’s terminology, he and Darkness are in the east if anyone remembers)
  • Kalita
    Kalita April 18 2013 16: 25
    0
    "Throughout their history, Russians have invariably shown extraordinary tenacity and perseverance in defense, without being distinguished by a special ability to act offensively. Defense is the essence of their national character. They are insensitive like animals. Deprivation and poverty are the usual conditions of their existence, and therefore the Russians not so much clinging to life. The life of an ordinary person is less valued there than a bicycle. A high birth rate allows you to quickly make up for any losses. Russians have a primitive tenacity that should not be confused with courage. Courage is courage inspired by spirituality. Tenacity, with which the Bolsheviks defended themselves in their pillboxes in Sevastopol, akin to some animal instinct, and it would be a deep mistake to consider it the result of Bolshevik convictions or upbringing. Russians have always been like this, and most likely will always remain so. In addition, it is not so difficult to give your life when there is no glimmer of hope in it, except for the mirage of a distant paradise, which even beckonsin a moment of danger. "- Here is a hollow Goebbels quote. I just do not want the wrong opinion about this scoundrel to be created on the basis of a quote taken out of context.
  • pupkin70
    pupkin70 April 18 2013 16: 32
    +2
    These are the memories of a RUSSIAN soldier that need to be studied in schools, in the place of OBZh. And Ulitskaya is imposed on our children with her tolerance.
    I am proud that I am Russian, that my ancestors proudly defended our homeland from many foreigners !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach April 18 2013 16: 46
    +6
    cinema and Germans
  • dmitreach
    dmitreach April 18 2013 16: 47
    0
    picture is not inserted
  • Rds12
    Rds12 April 18 2013 18: 19
    +5
    The Germans are young, which indicated not only some Russians, as usual here they like to do. Like all other nations and republics did not fight, but suffered from crap. For reference, in Russia there are only about 150 nations. Please do not forget.

    Correct Speak Soviet soldier, as Gagarin said when he landed, "I am mine, The Soviet". This is not the principality of Piterskoe for you, these are 15 Soviet Republics and Allied countries. Do not fucking attribute everything to one snout.

    As for the war, it would be better if they bombed Britain and the USA - the main provocateurs and organizers of all wars on earth.

    You can minus me, so apart from this you do not know how.
    1. Vladimir73
      Vladimir73 April 18 2013 19: 03
      +1
      it is a pity that this assessment only slips after they received lyuli from us.
    2. Batman
      Batman April 18 2013 19: 29
      +4
      1) yes, the Soviet soldier will be more correct.
      2) but a Russian soldier does not mean a specific people "Russian", but a nation, in which there are more than 150 peoples.
      3) The differences were, I think, in the thinking of Socialism, when a person strove not to do something for his own sake, but for the sake of his homeland! Add to this threat to the Homeland, and Everyone will stand to the last of their strengths. Another thing is tactics when they intend to retreat. I also draw attention to the fact that in the USSR they tested drugs that deprived a person of their senses, and a person could run away and shoot grief without feeling pain - but this was not massive, but only in some parts.
      4) Britain and the United States started World War II, they sponsored Hitler's rise to power, they pointed out to Hitler who to attack.
      5) I don’t see what to minus you) you are all right to say, even to the plus)
      1. Strategy
        Strategy April 18 2013 20: 01
        +1
        Quote: Batman
        I’ll also pay attention to the fact that in the USSR they tested drugs that deprived a person of feelings, and a person could run away and shoot grief without feeling pain

        A-ball-go !!!
        1. dddym
          dddym April 18 2013 20: 12
          +4
          A-ball-go !!!

          It's not just stunned - it's a super weapon of Russian !!!! It was called 100 of the People’s Commissars :)))))) And also the cries of edrena louse - generally deprived the enemy of the ability to resist :)))))
          1. mehanik27
            mehanik27 April 18 2013 23: 18
            0
            That is, you want to say that the Russians were drunks and won only thanks to the booze and swearing ?????
        2. family tree
          family tree April 18 2013 23: 38
          +7
          Quote: Strategia
          Quote: Batman
          I’ll also pay attention to the fact that in the USSR they tested drugs that deprived a person of feelings, and a person could run away and shoot grief without feeling pain

          A-ball-go !!!

          Yeah, that’s it. For example: Mamkin Alexander Petrovich, Soviet civilian pilot, participant in the Great Patriotic War. Since 1942, he served in the army in the ranks of the 105th Guards Separate Aviation Regiment (OGAP) of the civil air fleet. During the service he made 73 night sorties to the rear of the enemy to the location of partisan detachments on the R-5 aircraft.
          During the operation "Zvezdochka" made 9 sorties to the location of the partisans, on the 9th sortie, on his return, he was attacked and shot down by a German night fighter. Pulled over the front line, and landed a burning plane. In addition to him, there were 10 children on the plane, their teacher and two wounded partisans. According to the instructions, he could leave the plane with a parachute. Six days later, he died of burns in the hospital. The medics could not explain how a seriously wounded man could control the flight and landing in a flaming cabin, with glasses melted into his face and his legs burned to the bone.
          Now, probably, someone will say that the drugs were tested precisely on night-time pilots? So I won’t be surprised, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. I even saw it, on the screen, they went on the attack with cuttings from shovels.
          And the "People's Commissars" gave out after the battle.
          1. Batman
            Batman April 19 2013 13: 22
            0
            It was called 100g of people's commissars.

            eh, my words twisted. I repeat, there were only trials, and did not give to every soldier. and I also didn’t give the pilots. And most of the heroes suffered on their own willpower, on their upbringing ...

            Even the Americans were testing a drug that a soldier could do without sleep for 3-5 days. After the action, the truth cut him off for the same 3-5 days)
      2. Vladimir73
        Vladimir73 April 18 2013 22: 23
        +1
        "I will also draw your attention to the fact that in the USSR they tested drugs that deprived a person of feelings, and a person could run and shoot in grief without feeling pain - but this was not massive, but only in some parts."

        such tests were conducted not only in the USSR))
    3. Raven1972
      Raven1972 April 18 2013 23: 58
      +2
      As for the war, it would be better if they bombed Britain and the USA - the main provocateurs and organizers of all wars on earth.

      I completely agree with this ... good hi
    4. polida
      polida April 23 2013 23: 09
      0
      I agree with you, Ahmet Khan Sultan (Crimean Tatar) -
      2 Hero of the Soviet Union, Marshal of Tank Troops Rybalko (Ukrainian) - 2 Hero of the Soviet Union and such Groves are many of our peoples !!!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dr. Manoff
    Dr. Manoff April 18 2013 19: 51
    0
    Quote: Chen
    Quote: Greyfox
    Russians killed German soldiers.


    This is finally below the belt !!!!

    But seriously, according to the recollections of our veterans, the German is a worthy rival, a good warrior. the higher the price of our victory.
  • Castor oil
    Castor oil April 18 2013 20: 02
    +9
    Found on the Internet in one of the forums laughing
    inaco

    A small digression found when parsing the old mail:
    German grandfather, 89 years old. I went through the whole war without a single scratch. He served as a telephone operator. So that's it. From a conversation with him it suddenly became clear that "hurray!" he has never heard or even suspects such a cry. But the word "bl ... d" he remembered forever. With this cry, the Russians burst into the German trenches. After that, the only correct decision was to simply make legs on time. Thanks to this, the grandfather then survived. He also remembered another cry: "Forward, e ... my mother!" Which, according to the grandfather, meant "full pi ... dec", because Russian tanks also went on the attack.
  • bilgesez
    bilgesez April 18 2013 20: 11
    +2
    Russian Russian power, and the world will be ours.
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth April 18 2013 20: 13
    +1
    [media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = PF6a1-6-dJc]
    There is an answer to their misunderstanding of us.
    PS Failed to insert a picture