Military Review

Numerical superiority is not always a guarantee of victory.

89



In military textbooks on tactics and strategy (and not only Russian), it is noted that creating numerical superiority over the enemy in the main direction of the strike is considered one of the main conditions for success in battle.
The strategy of any military campaign is developed on the basis of an estimate and analysis of the time, place of the battle and the number of troops. These are the main factors determining the outcome of any battle. Each of these factors has a huge impact on the outcome of the confrontation. Any of them affects the course of the battle and its consequences. Tactics affect the course of each particular battle, giving their tactical settings.
Victory in battle, of course, depends on the numerical superiority, which is an important parameter of the battle, but the success of the battle is no less dependent on many other circumstances. According to military analysts: in order to reduce the level of influence of other factors of a battle, numerical superiority in the decisive direction should be as large as possible. But even in this case, do not forget about the morale, military valor and talent of the generals, which can significantly affect the outcome of any battle. An example of this is the victory of Frederick the Great over the Austrian forces at Leuthen. 30-ti thousandth army of the German commander defeated 80-ti Austrian army. Also, Frederick the Great with 25-ti thousandth army won a convincing victory over 50-ti thousandth allied army of France and Austria under Rosbach.

In addition, it should be noted that in the military confrontations that took place in the 18 century, the size of the army was not decisive. In the surviving chronicles of those times almost never mentioned the number of troops.

The number of troops on an extremely important sector of the front is undoubtedly one of the decisive factors of victory, but this parameter greatly depends on the absolute size of the troops, as well as on the ability, more precisely, on the art of using it.

Many historians were interested in a kind of paradoxical idea that there is a concept of the optimal size of the army, and if the number involved in the battle exceeds the value of "normal power", then this circumstance may be detrimental to the overall battle strategy. AT stories There were many examples of the fact that all the available forces were not involved in the battle, that is, the commanders did not see in the numerical superiority of the decisive factor of victory.

Note that the size of the army, as a rule, does not depend on the requirements of the commander himself. In determining the absolute number of troops involved both the government and the conditions prevailing in the country during the formation of the armed forces. Therefore, each commander in the development of his battle plan, always comes from the available number of troops, because he is not given the right to set its own number. In connection with this circumstance, the majority of military leaders, using their military experience, try to achieve relative numerical superiority over the enemy in the decisive sectors of the battle, regardless of the absolute value of the size of the entire army. And in this case, such elements of the strategy as the choice of the place and time of the strike become decisive in determining the tactics of each particular battle. The decision-making process is the highest military art of the leadership of the armed forces to achieve victory over the enemy.

In order to correctly determine the space and time of impact, it is necessary to take into account and correctly assess the forces and capabilities of your opponent, take the risk of temporary visual weakening of forces in the direction of the main attack, be able to organize forced marches and covert movement of troops, be able to prepare and conduct sudden attacks, to invest in the soul of every soldier the idea of ​​victory.

Frederick the Great and Napoleon have always used the tactics of concentrating superior forces in the decisive phase of the battle. As talented commanders, they were able to give a correct assessment of the chosen direction, sacrificed a minor for the sake of achieving the ultimate goal.

It is impossible to say with certainty that the indispensable condition for victory is numerical superiority over the enemy. This is a necessary, but not sufficient condition. Only a real comprehensive assessment of the situation will make it possible to take the right decision - to join the battle or abandon it because of the possible risk of losing not only the army, but also hope to win in the future.

For example, the Greek-Macedonian army of Alexander the Great consisted of a small number of highly trained and well-armed fighters. Alexander's victories are related to the fact that he changed the battle tactics that existed during the reign of his father. He used the concentration of his military forces in the attack on the weaker flanks of the enemy. Simultaneously with the heavy infantry, Alexander the Great organized lightly armed detachments. One of the reasons for his remarkable victories was the use of a tactic of lightning, sudden strikes against the enemy's army.

However, it is necessary to note the fact that both Bonaparte and Friedrich were losing battles to the enemy, who had a significant advantage in numbers. It follows that the talent of the commander is not always able to lead to victory when he meets with numerous opponents.

It must be said that any strategy of military success lies in the positive result of the implementation of tactical victories. There are a number of factors that ensure success or at least contribute to it: the advantages of the terrain, the suddenness of any actions, including creating superiority in combat strength for the enemy, leading attacks from several directions, strengthening positions and rear, raising the morale and morale of the fighters, getting support from the public.

The defender has an advantage on the ground, but in the arsenal of actions of the attacking side, the most productive practice is the surprise attack. And if, moreover, the enemy makes a serious mistake, the attacking side will get a sufficiently convincing chance to win and the number of the advancing army in this case does not play a decisive role. In order for the size of the army to become the decisive factor on the battlefield, it is necessary to introduce as many troops as possible at the most crucial moment. This principle applies to any army in the world: the British, French, Greeks and Germans, etc. The difference between them is in the talent of the commander and the military prowess of the army.

Based on the conclusions of the Russian military experts, the modern Russian army should be no more than 1 million people (as of 2012, 800 thousand people served in the country's army). Experts believe that an increase in the number of Russian Armed Forces over a million people is inappropriate for the country.

Changes taking place in the world require an adjustment of the strategy and tactics of military operations. And, of course, these changes concern the determination of the required size and composition of the armed forces of each country individually.

A little historical background: in 1853, the Russian army consisted of 1300 thousand fighters, during the First World War 5 million people, and by the fall of 1917, the number of Russian army reached 10 million (losses during the first world war of the Russian army were 3 million people).

At present, the largest army in numbers belongs to China (2,3 million), followed by the USA (1,4 million), India (1,3 million), and the DPRK (1,2 million).

Materials used:
http://army.armor.kiev.ua/hist/prevosxod.shtml
http://rulibs.com/ru_zar/sci_history/klauzevits/0/j14.html
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  1. Iraclius
    Iraclius April 17 2013 09: 07
    11
    Tsar Leonid - we remember you and your 300 hoplites! hi

    As for military art, the name Epaminondas (Ἐπαμεινώνδας), the greatest military theoretician of ancient Greece, is heard less and less in tactical classes. Karl Marx wrote about him like this:
    "Epaminondas was the first to discover a great tactical principle that up to now decides almost all regular battles: the uneven distribution of troops along the front in order to concentrate forces for a major strike at a decisive point."

    The logical result of the application of the principle was a brilliant victory over the Spartans (!!!) in the epoch-making battle of the Levctra.

    1. Gari
      Gari April 17 2013 11: 07
      +3
      Quote: Iraclius
      Tsar Leonid - we remember you and your 300 hoplites!


      In Sparta, almost all the education of young people and almost the entire system of laws is tailored for military purposes. ” The state saw as its main goal the creation of an excellent military nation. Therefore, Sparta directed all her efforts to the development of a future generation, strong in physical terms, and also adapted to survive in the most terrible conditions, strict state control was organized over the process of education and upbringing.
      The most important qualities that were obliged to distinguish the Spartan from all representatives of other nations were: tremendous strength, amazing endurance and maximum ability to adapt to various difficulties of life. Inoculation of such qualities began from the very first days in a child’s life. Even at the age of the baby, he was not allowed to swaddle or cover. He was left in the sun, rain and wind. Over time, when the child began to grow up, he was weaned from all fears.
      The first stage of training for boys was considered the age of 7 to 15 years. The main task in this period of time was the development of an ability that allows one to overcome life's difficulties, in addition, the education in oneself of the basic moral qualities of a real warrior: self-control, courage, composure.
      At the age of seven, boys were taken away from their parents and united into agels (small-sized squads), raised them together, teaching heavy military discipline
      The upbringing of the boys was not given only in one hand: the questions of upbringing the new generation of youth were a common affair of the whole state.
    2. rauffg
      rauffg April 17 2013 11: 21
      16
      and how do you like it - 60 against 6000! 1915 battle for Osovets.
      1. Zhaman-Urus
        Zhaman-Urus April 17 2013 18: 10
        +6
        Thank you for the video. He looked with pleasure and gave his son a look. In one of the articles they wrote that the Russians would be destroyed as a nation, forcing them to forget their roots. I don’t know who as I live in Kazakhstan, I remain Russian, I educate Russian my son and daughter, and I am proud of both my children and my ancestors.
        1. KuigoroZHIK
          KuigoroZHIK April 17 2013 20: 22
          +3
          Well, in the article the same thing is defiled from the very beginning to the end. And on foreign examples. For those who were our enemies!
          The author may be right, but disgusting to read! After all, it was possible to tell about ours, about Russian commanders! About Kutuzov, Suvorov, about the battles in the Crimea, about the Caucasus! After all, there is a HUGE number of NATIONAL HEROES, which showed that you can win with a smaller number.
          1. Genady1976
            Genady1976 April 17 2013 21: 30
            +1
            Whoever comes to us with a sword will shout at us
            Alexander Nevsky
            1. Kolya
              Kolya April 18 2013 08: 16
              +1
              Now numerical superiority is the guarantee of victory in the election. Elections are a type of modern warfare.
          2. Setrac
            Setrac April 17 2013 22: 10
            +2
            Quote: Kuygorozhik
            The author may be right, but disgusting to read!

            Of course, the author is wrong. Examples like Sparta cannot be taken into account because they are invented.
      2. Alex
        Alex 2 September 2013 00: 48
        +2
        A great movie. There is an inaccuracy: there was no impurity of bromine in those OM. Bromine is now a rare and expensive thing, and it is not very poisonous as a gas: liquid, easily evaporates, but also easily condenses, very heavy vapors, toxic effect does not exceed chlorine.
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 09: 13
    +7
    Quote: Iraclius
    Tsar Leonid - we remember you and your 300 hoplites!


    But the Thespians, who also refused to leave the scene of the battle, had forgotten well ... negative
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali April 18 2013 19: 54
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      But the Thespians, who also refused to leave the scene of the battle, had forgotten well ...

      And also at least 1000 helots - messenians.
  3. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 09: 23
    14
    The smaller army won only when its personnel were better trained, well equipped and had reliable "motivation ..."
    1. Arberes
      Arberes April 17 2013 10: 20
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      The smaller army won only when its personnel were better trained, well equipped and had reliable "motivation ..."

      I absolutely agree with you! drinks
      A.V. SUVOROV and his miracle heroes !!! Very often they beat the adversary not with a number, but with a skill!
      1. Suvorov000
        Suvorov000 April 17 2013 10: 52
        +6
        What does it mean often, Suvorov does not have a single lost battle
        1. Arberes
          Arberes April 17 2013 12: 46
          +3
          Quote: Suvorov000
          What does it mean often, Suvorov does not have a single lost battle

          I talked about the size and skill of his army. drinks
          And of course about his leadership talent.
      2. svp67
        svp67 April 17 2013 11: 03
        +4
        Quote: Arberes
        A.V. SUVOROV and his miracle heroes !!! Very often they beat the adversary not with a number, but with a skill!


        And the exploits of the troops of General Kotlyarovsky, they are no less glorious and important for our country
        1. Arberes
          Arberes April 17 2013 12: 45
          +4
          Quote: svp67
          And the exploits of the troops of General Kotlyarovsky, they are no less glorious and important for our country

          Well, Kotlyarovsky is generally a song of our army !!!
          If I am not mistaken, his name was respectfully "GENERAL-METEOR"!
      3. Gari
        Gari April 17 2013 11: 22
        +7
        Quote: Arberes
        A.V. SUVOROV and his miracle heroes !!! Very often they beat the adversary not with a number, but with a skill!

        The main technique that allowed Suvorov to gain most of his brilliant victories over anyone was an unprecedented QUICK MARCH of troops plus an unexpected attack.
        The famous Suvorov "hard in learning - easy in battle" - refers specifically to training the army to quickly travel long distances. Suvorov paid priority attention to these qualities. During the exercises, he raised the shelves day and night, drove them day and night through the hills, forests, and swamps, and he achieved the ability of soldiers to move as quietly and silently as possible. During these march-throws, Suvorov developed his own method of optimal breakdown of the march by the time allotted for the actual movement, eating and rest. He imprisoned the army’s marching construction for the fastest possible movement (he narrowed the columns so as not to get stuck on bridges and gorges). He trained the ability to quickly build crossings, gati, to ford rivers and swim.
        And most importantly, he introduced a simple rule for starting a battle - "the head of the tail does not wait." That is, the vanguard had to be able to instantly attack directly from the campaign, without rest and without waiting for reinforcements. Otherwise, the effect of surprise would be lost - all for which a swift and secretive march-throw was conceived.
        At that time it wasn’t accepted, usually the army camped before the battle, rested, reconnaissance, the battle plan was drawn up. Therefore, the meeting with the Suvorov tactics always made a stunning impression on any opponent.
        One Pole, having experienced the power of Russian bayonets, wrote: “It used to take a position, wait for the Russians from the front, and he rushes either from the rear or the flank. We ran away more from fear and surprise than from defeat. "
        Often, he without fear threw himself right into the thick of the battle, dragging behind him the quivering ranks. And many times thereby saving the army from defeat. Towards the end of his career, he already had no living space on his body. Here is such a strategy!
        Many still know that he cared for the soldiers, often arranged exercises, and they loved him and were ready to follow him into fire and water.

        Generalissimus Suvorov
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 17 2013 11: 32
          +2
          Quote: Gari
          The main technique that allowed Suvorov to gain most of his brilliant victories over anyone was an unprecedented QUICK MARCH of troops plus an unexpected attack.


          A quick march is a way to quickly concentrate the required amount of forces and resources on the "key" area ...
          1. Genady1976
            Genady1976 April 17 2013 21: 34
            +1
            Normal HEROES always go around
        2. kagorta
          kagorta April 18 2013 06: 19
          +1
          In fact, the words of Suvorov sounded like this - "hard in learning - easy on the march."
  4. erased
    erased April 17 2013 09: 26
    10
    The author gives examples of the number of armies from antiquity to the beginning of the 19th century. But conclusions are drawn about the modern army. Why, then, did he not give examples of even the Great Patriotic War and did not give a balance of forces on operations? It would be more reliable.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 17 2013 22: 14
      +2
      Quote: erased
      The author gives examples of the number of armies from antiquity to the beginning of the 19th century. But conclusions are drawn about the modern army. Why, then, did he not give examples of even the Great Patriotic War and did not give a balance of forces on operations? It would be more reliable.

      Because this example does not correspond to the theory, the Russians were inferior in quantity, were worse armed, and worse prepared, nevertheless the result is known.
  5. radio operator
    radio operator April 17 2013 09: 32
    +5
    The Russians have always fought by skill, not number.
    No wonder Suvorov's words have always been an instruction to the servants.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 09: 52
      +7
      Quote: radio operator
      The Russians have always fought by skill, not number.
      No wonder Suvorov's words have always been an instruction to the servants.



      Alas, this is SO controversial ... Although of course it is very patriotic. But you need to know the story.
      1. radio operator
        radio operator April 17 2013 11: 19
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        Alas, this is SO controversial ... Although of course it is very patriotic. But you need to know the story.

        Remember the results of World War II: the loss of the Russian army in 3 times less than the adversary.
        In World War II - yes, our losses were greater.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac April 17 2013 22: 15
        -1
        Quote: svp67
        Alas, this is SO controversial ... Although of course it is very patriotic. But you need to know the story.

        Give examples of Russian victory by number! Why unfounded allegations.
      3. Ram chandra
        Ram chandra April 23 2013 12: 05
        0
        At least the story of the conquest of Russia by the Mongols. 80 thousandth (or 40?!) Army defeated 200 thousandth united Russian.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 23 2013 13: 33
          0
          Quote: Mangust_ali
          At least the story of the conquest of Russia by the Mongols. 80 thousandth (or 40?!) Army defeated 200 thousandth united Russian.

          Did you count these armies? 80000 steppes cannot gather in one place without centralized supply, this is not possible in principle. Where did some Russian princes (by no means all) get 200000 soldiers? ALL of Russia had an army of 17 soldiers in the 140000th century, and then two hundred at once? Leave these tales for those who have not learned to count at school. I would rather believe in 8000 steppe versus 2000 warriors.
          Not to mention the fact that the very fact of the conquest of Russia by the MONGOLS is doubtful.
    2. predator.3
      predator.3 April 17 2013 12: 15
      +4
      Based on the conclusions of the Russian military experts, the modern Russian army should be no more than 1 million people (as of 2012, 800 thousand people served in the country's army). Experts believe that an increase in the number of Russian Armed Forces over a million people is inappropriate for the country.

      Question: And on the basis of what considerations does Russia contain two million police, + any security structures numbering several million?
      1. Genady1976
        Genady1976 April 17 2013 21: 41
        0
        But it’s interesting that our army has more than three million.
        And what for us even more
      2. erg
        erg April 18 2013 09: 12
        +1
        The number of personnel of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is approximately 1200000 people, of which the actual police are 800000 (approximately), the rest are internal services.
  6. vorobey
    vorobey April 17 2013 09: 33
    +4
    The overall outcome of the war also depends on the size of the army.
    There is tactics and there is a strategy.

    Remember Paulus. He warned Hitler that Germany did not have enough mob resources, as the frontline funnel would expand as it moved deeper into Russia. Therefore, the bet was made on blitzkrieg.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 17 2013 10: 12
      +4
      Quote: vorobey
      ... Therefore, the bet was made on blitzkrieg.

      So, they finally did not plan war. Only a campaign for one season, which was supposed to end, in extreme cases, in October.
      The calculation was to break the main forces of the Red Army before the Dnieper. And then, as they believed, management collapse will follow.
  7. Bigriver
    Bigriver April 17 2013 09: 35
    +8
    Absolutely empty article.
    In order to come to a thoughtful "not always" - so many words are not needed.
  8. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 09: 38
    0
    be thrice a brave patriot, but on an 1 tank you won’t do anything against 10. Tactical tricks were relevant until the 20 century when there were no satellites or sensible communications. And now 1. At least equal grouping of troops in technology. 2. Professionalism. 3. Willingness to defend the homeland. Well, intelligence essno)))
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 09: 54
      17
      Quote: YaRusich
      but on an 1 tank you won’t do anything against 10.



      Senior Lieutenant Zinoviy Kolobanov disagrees with you. And thank God soldier
      1. Setrac
        Setrac April 17 2013 22: 18
        +1
        And there was such Molotov, he made excellent cocktails wink tanks do not fight tanks, and if they fight, it’s not from a good life.
    2. Parabelum
      Parabelum April 17 2013 10: 55
      +4
      Quote: YaRusich
      Tactical tricks were relevant until the 20th century when there were no satellites or sensible communications

      How so? Those. tactical tricks are missing now? Sudden attacks, false positions, disguised objects, misinformation and much, much more? You are confusing something, let's mine an abandoned object, and then blow it up together with the enemy, this is also a tactical trick. Tactical tricks are one of the key elements of success.
      1. YaRusich
        YaRusich April 17 2013 11: 27
        0
        Quote: Parabelum
        Sudden attacks, false positions, disguised objects, misinformation and much, much more? You are confusing something, let's mine an abandoned object, and then blow it up together with the enemy, this is also a tactical trick. Tactical tricks are one of the key elements of success.

        You have listed planned activities. Conducted during the hostilities.

        I mean something else dumb. For example, again, Suvorov’s crossing the Alps and his exit to the enemy’s troops not where they expected him. Then, yes, it was a tactical trick. And now, with satellite intelligence and other technical systems, the covert movement of troops is very difficult and is associated with a large number of planned measures to mask disinformation, etc.

        At the level of small connections, yes, tricks and unexpected turns have not been canceled)) and they are only welcome (without them we will not be able to do this anymore) ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 17 2013 11: 36
          +2
          Quote: YaRusich
          And now, in the presence of satellite intelligence and other technical systems, covert troop movements are very difficult and are associated with a large number of planned measures to mask disinformation, etc.


          No, the ability to create such a structure of troops in which their rapid "transformation" is possible, allowing them to gain an overwhelming advantage in any important area, is no less relevant now. It's just that the time factor is becoming more and more significant every year.
          "To act in such a way that the enemy would lag behind you in his actions, at least one step ..."
          1. YaRusich
            YaRusich April 17 2013 11: 48
            0
            We are talking about the same thing))
        2. GRDS
          GRDS April 17 2013 12: 12
          +1
          Dear, what kind of satellites are you talking about in a large-scale war ?!
          If this happens (God forbid) the satellites will be destroyed first.
          1. Prometey
            Prometey April 18 2013 07: 42
            0
            Quote: GRDS
            If this happens (God forbid) the satellites will be destroyed first

            What, from a slingshot?
        3. Batman
          Batman April 17 2013 17: 20
          0
          tactical trick is when the enemy does not know what you will do (or where you are) at the next moment. If flattery is on the forehead - there is no trick.
          1. svp67
            svp67 April 17 2013 17: 23
            0
            Quote: Batman
            tactical trick is when the enemy does not know what you will do (or where you are) at the next moment.


            Or she guesses, but until the last moment she won’t understand where and when ..
    3. Batman
      Batman April 17 2013 17: 18
      +2
      there is a real story from the Second World War, where one of our soldiers (he was 20 years old) remained in the village to cover our departure (remained of his own accord, since he was local), he remained with a cannon and shells, and fired on a German column of tanks, marching across the bridge. He hit his head on the bridge, hit his tail, and then he started in turn. The Germans managed to enter the village when the guy ran out of shells. The Germans were surprised to learn that they were almost shot at by one soldier. As a result, the guy seemed to be alive.
      1. George
        George April 17 2013 21: 21
        +2
        Nikolai Sirotinin was his name, and he died not retreating, but taking the battle. The Germans were struck by such courage, and put him to the ground with military honors.
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 April 19 2013 16: 57
          0
          there were already analyzed, a lot of dubious moments in this story of a lone gunner.
          1. brelok
            brelok April 30 2013 18: 56
            0
            ANOTHER CASE: THE END OF JUNE 1941 HIGHWAY. ALTITUDE NEAR THE VILLAGE, ONE SOLDIER WITH A PULMETO. DESTROYED THE GERMAN MOUTH FLOOR. TOLD LOCAL OLD OLD PEOPLE. ON THE TOMB STONE A CROSS CROSS POSES.
    4. Rinat
      Rinat April 18 2013 07: 00
      +1
      The story of the heroic tank

      On July 3, 1941, for already a week, Minsk, in the hands of the Germans, was driven by the Soviet T-28 tank at low speed. Already frightened by the occupation authorities, the locals watched in surprise as a three-tower car, armed with a cannon and four machine guns, boldly moved towards the city center.
      The German soldiers encountered along the way did not react at all to the tank, taking it for a trophy. One cyclist decided to have fun, and rode ahead for a while. But the T-28 driver was tired of it, he gasped a little, and only German memories remained. Further, Soviet officers met several officers who smoked on the porch of the house. But in order not to declassify themselves ahead of time, they were not touched.
      Finally, near the distillery, the crew noticed how a unit of the Nazis, guarded by an armored car, was loading boxes of alcohol into a truck. A few minutes later from this idyllic picture there were only fragments of a car and an armored car, and a bunch of corpses.
      While the German authorities had not yet heard of the incident at the vodka factory, the tank calmly and carefully crossed the bridge over the river and stumbled upon a column of cheerful and self-confident motorcyclists. Having missed a few Germans, the driver drove the pedal, and a steel hulk crashed into the middle of the enemy column. The panic began, which was aggravated by the guns and machine guns. And the ammunition tank was filled to capacity as early as the morning in the former military town ...
      Having finished with motorcyclists, the tank drove onto Sovetskaya Street (the central street of Minsk), where on the way it treated the Nazis gathered at the theater with lead. Well, on the Proletarian tankers literally bloomed with smiles. Right in front of the T-28 are the rear of some German unit. Many trucks with ammunition and weapons, fuel tanks, field kitchens. And the soldier - they can’t be counted at all. A few minutes later, this place turned into a real hell with exploding shells and burning gasoline.
      Now the next step is Gorky Park. But along the way the Soviet tankers decided to fire an anti-tank gun. Three shots from the T-28 gun forever calmed the insolents. And in the park itself, the Germans, who heard explosions in the city, vigilantly looked out in the sky for Soviet bombers. From them remains the same as from their predecessors: a burning tank, broken weapons and corpses.
      But the moment came when the shells ended, and the tankers decided to leave Minsk. At first, everything went well. But at the very edge of the tank, a disguised anti-tank battery hit the tank. The driver kept a full throttle, but the brave men did not have enough of a minute. The shell that got into the engine set fire to the T-28 ...
      The heroic T-28 stood throughout the occupation in the capital of Belarus, reminding both local residents and Germans of the courage of the Soviet soldier.

      You can’t get far on one tank, but thank God our ancestors did not know about it!
  9. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 09: 49
    +3
    Quote: YaRusich
    be thrice a brave patriot, but on an 1 tank you won’t do anything against 10. Tactical tricks were relevant until the 20 century when there were no satellites or sensible communications. And now 1. At least equal grouping of troops in technology. 2. Professionalism. 3. Willingness to defend the homeland. Well, intelligence essno)))


    Well, what about the talent and luck of the commander in which of the points?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 17 2013 10: 05
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      Well, what about the talent and luck of the commander in which of the points?



      And why, you have to be stupid and brave.
  10. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 01
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    Senior Lieutenant Zinoviy Kolobanov disagrees with you. And thank God

    and I'm proud that in our history there are such heroes, but it’s a pity that they don’t go by the regiments)))

    Quote: svp67
    Well, what about the talent and luck of the commander in which of the points?

    the talent and luck of commanders rely on the OVD leadership and guidance. Which are written in blood ....
    And in them everything is very even described in detail about the aspect ratio in attack and defense. And when conducting large-scale military operations, one must rely not on chance (luck there and all that), but on clear strategic and operational planning and command. The great war is a war of systems, the one that is stronger and will win. And the strength of the system depends on its foundation, for p..ov it is green papers, for us, if you say so, patriotism and the desire to live in our country and according to our laws are at the core. Who is to us with a sword that screaming and galloping)))
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 17 2013 10: 08
      +5
      Quote: YaRusich
      the talent and luck of commanders rely on the OVD leadership and guidance. Which are written in blood .... And in them everything is very even described in detail about the aspect ratio in attack and defense. And when conducting large-scale military operations, one must rely not on chance (luck there and all that), but on clear strategic and operational planning and command.


      Well do not tell. The charter is not a dogma, but a guide to action.

      To die with profit is one thing, but to survive by completing a task is more difficult. And there are situations like the senior boss on .. you can send if you are sure of success and ready to bear responsibility.
  11. broker
    broker April 17 2013 10: 07
    +1
    Video in topic

    IN SHOCK why in the video in the upper left corner is 18+ would have 50+ put !!!
  12. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 07
    +1
    Quote: vorobey
    And why, you have to be stupid and brave.

    Zhukov, were Rokosovsky stupid?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 17 2013 10: 16
      +4
      Quote: YaRusich
      be thrice a brave patriot, but on 1 tank you won’t do anything against 10. Tactical tricks were relevant until the 20th century when there were no satellites or sensible communications.


      I deliberately faked you.


      Quote: YaRusich
      the talent and luck of commanders rely on the OVD leadership and guidance. Which are written in blood .... And in them everything is very even described in detail about the aspect ratio in attack and defense. And when conducting large-scale military operations, one must rely not on chance (luck there and all that), but on clear strategic and operational planning and command. The great war is the war of systems, the one that is stronger and will win


      take my word for it, luck and luck in the war also exist. And the commander’s talent does not rely on OVU, but lies in the fact that, having knowledge and skills, he knows how to wrap the current situation in his favor. There is such a thing - the battle plan. Sometimes the more illogical and non-standard (contrary to the OVU) you act, you achieve a greater result.
  13. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 10: 11
    +2
    Quote: YaRusich
    the talent and luck of commanders rely on the OVD leadership and guidance


    OVU - documents defining the life and activities of the troops. And the commanders in the organization and conduct of the battle use the BUSVs and various Instructions. But the fact of the matter is that Talent and Luck refer to "divine providence."
  14. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 16
    +1
    Quote: vorobey
    Well do not tell. The charter is not a dogma, but a guide to action.

    To die with profit is one thing, but to survive by completing a task is more difficult. And there are situations like the senior boss on .. you can send if you are sure of success and ready to bear responsibility.

    They also said that I)) only in their own words (the hint I said is based). And by the way, for violations of the charter there is criminal liability, this is by the way about dogmas.

    Regarding to send a senior boss - during the war this is execution for. 1. The senior boss performs the tasks of the operational (strategic) command. And a violation of plans due to failure to comply with orders may lead to the disruption of a larger operation.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 10: 24
      +1
      Quote: YaRusich
      Regarding to send a senior boss - during the war it’s execution for


      Well, not so scary. All the same, at first there is a trial and a court ... But this is the talent of the commander, that he carries out even "stupid" orders "without substituting" himself and the troops entrusted to him ...
    2. vorobey
      vorobey April 17 2013 10: 24
      +1
      Quote: YaRusich
      Regarding to send a senior boss - during the war this is execution for. 1. The senior boss performs the tasks of the operational (strategic) command. And a violation of plans due to failure to comply with orders may lead to the disruption of a larger operation.


      You can always justify and insist with reason. Do not be offended, but in my opinion you are not related to the officer rank. Since, upon receiving a combat order, the commander of any link knows both the task of the neighbors and the subsequent combat task. Based on this, and decides to battle. But again, the decision was made - in theory in real life it rarely ideally passes and you always make adjustments along the way, not to the detriment, but to complete the task.
  15. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 10: 16
    +1
    Quote: YaRusich
    And in them everything is very even described in detail about the aspect ratio in attack and defense. And when conducting large-scale military operations, one must rely not on chance (luck there and all that), but on clear strategic and operational planning and command.



    Everything seems to be correct. Only you miss the moment that "only the Talented" will be able, having less or equal forces to the enemy, to find solutions on how to create an established balance of forces in the NECESSARY direction, when everything says that this is not possible. Well, LUCK, she hasn't bothered anyone yet ...
  16. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 24
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    Everything seems to be correct. Only you miss the moment that "only the Talented" will be able, having less or equal forces to the enemy, to find solutions on how to create an established balance of forces in the NECESSARY direction, when everything says that this is not possible. Well, LUCK, she hasn't bothered anyone yet ...

    So I do not deny it and strongly support. But in addition to talent and good luck, there’s still a lot to know, to know, and to know again (charters, vital activity of troops and everything that was said above ..) and be a professional ....
  17. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 30
    +1
    Quote: vorobey
    Since, upon receiving a combat order, the commander of any link knows both the task of the neighbors and the subsequent combat task. Based on this, and decides to battle. But again, the decision was made - in theory in real life it rarely ideally passes and you always make adjustments along the way, not to the detriment, but to complete the task.


    you forgot to say at the level of your link. And since I still have to do with the officer rank (the Personnel Officer, now the reserve captain, reduced his service over 6 months to 10 years). I’m very interested in your discussions about discussing orders in our army))) Where everything is based on unity of command. Yes, and I think if the orders were discussed then Suvorov didn’t go through the Alps ....
    1. vorobey
      vorobey April 17 2013 10: 45
      +2
      Quote: YaRusich
      Now the captain of the reserve, they reduced their service for 6 months to 10 years


      I'm sorry, please forgive.

      So we are on equal terms. 13 years of service and also captain.



      Quote: YaRusich
      I’m very interested in your reasoning about the discussion of orders in our army))) Where everything is based on unity of command

      This is not about discussing orders, but about their implementation based on the current situation. Why climb into the forehead if you can go sideways.

      I also taught this to my fighters. you have an order to go head-on on a machine gun- imitate activity and bypasses itself. The winners are not judged, but the titles are held laughing
  18. svp67
    svp67 April 17 2013 10: 38
    0
    Quote: YaRusich
    Yes, and I think if the orders were discussed then Suvorov didn’t go through the Alps ....


    Unsuccessful example: the passage through the Alps is the initiative and decision of Suvorov, and in this case he did not carry out any literal order
  19. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 40
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Unsuccessful example: the passage through the Alps is the initiative and decision of Suvorov, and in this case he did not carry out any literal order


    I'm talking about the fact that no one has discussed Suvorov’s orders))) And not vice versa. And at that time he was the commander of the combined army with the rank of field marshal.
    1. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 11: 20
      0
      Quote: YaRusich
      And at that time he was the commander of the combined army with the rank of field marshal.


      It may be that he was, but really at that moment he commanded only Russian troops, the Austrian ones acted at their discretion ...
  20. YaRusich
    YaRusich April 17 2013 10: 49
    +1
    Quote: vorobey
    This is not about discussing orders, but about their implementation based on the current situation. Why climb into the forehead if you can go sideways.

    I also taught this to my fighters. you have an order to go head-on on a machine gun- imitate activity and bypasses itself. The winners are not judged, but the titles are held

    Heh, then we did not understand each other. I’m just about discussing the order (and order is the goal).

    And you tell me about the methods of achieving this goal)) And here I completely agree with you. And our strength is precisely in achieving goals with non-trivial methods ... (where talent and luck can prove itself in all its glory)
  21. Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder April 17 2013 11: 58
    0
    Quote: radio operator
    The Russians have always fought by skill, not number.
    No wonder Suvorov's words have always been an instruction to the servants.


    If only you had said about the time of Genghis Khan about the Mongols, the yab believed =)
  22. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 17 2013 13: 08
    -1
    Any war is waged only by number, not necessarily by the number of people, an advantage in technology can compensate for the lack of manpower, especially by means of non-contact combat, such as artillery, which infantry in positions will simply mow down and fight only with other artillery. In World War I this was especially pronounced when the Germans, having an overwhelming superiority in artillery, easily broke through the Russian defense, even with an approximately equal number of infantry.

    If somewhere one side with lesser forces won the battle, then this is imperative to create a local numerical superiority and break up the enemy in parts. The enchanting defeat of the Turks by Suvorov in the Rymnik battle is a vivid example, and again, the defeat of part of the Turkish troops caused panic and loss of control, in an environment where illiterate recruits were not difficult to achieve. As a result, the Turkish army basically just fled.

    The author does not take into account one key factor - the alignment of the organizational structures of the armies, the technical characteristics of weapons and the training system for commanders. The fact that in ancient times only geniuses like Macedonian understood in the 18-19 centuries was already military science, a typical result is the battle of Borodino, when, with approximately equal numbers, the parties inflicted terrible losses on each other, but did not achieve decisive success. The Anglo-French forces did not achieve decisive success in the Crimean War, although they won it in the end. This is with a very low quality of the Russian army.

    A similar phenomenon occurs in war games such as chess and RTS. In chess, the top has long been formed, where the emergence of a new Stetsnitsa, or Alekhine, who will bend everyone for 20 years, is simply impossible. In RTS, at first there are super-strong players, but after some time, if the game does not bend in a year, there are more and more of them. Since everyone has already figured out how to play.

    In the conditions when you cannot seriously jealous with your opponent’s skill, any general who has studied at the academy will not make any serious mistakes, the weapon is also comparable, only a numerical advantage can bring victory.
  23. atalef
    atalef April 17 2013 13: 23
    -2
    Quote: YaRusich
    be thrice a brave patriot, but on an 1 tank you won’t do anything against 10. Tactical tricks were relevant until the 20 century when there were no satellites or sensible communications. )))

    Far from a fact. Israel won all the wars, despite the overwhelming superiority of the Arab armies, and this was in common not so long ago.
  24. andrey_sk
    andrey_sk April 17 2013 13: 40
    -2
    N-yes, but in the picture the battle of Orsha in 1514 ...
  25. Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx April 17 2013 14: 08
    0
    Quote: predator.3
    Question: And on the basis of what considerations does Russia contain two million police, + any security structures numbering several million?


    Give exact data, sources and figures, please.
  26. spirit
    spirit April 17 2013 14: 12
    0
    Hu-th war! The main maneuver))
    I would also remember the Battle of Cannes 216 BC. Where Old Hannibal taught the whole of Rome to use reserves! And not to let the whole army go as the Romans did, for which they paid.
  27. albi77
    albi77 April 17 2013 14: 49
    +1
    Why do all the Spartans remember? we will have our heroes more heroic ....
    Colonel Karjagin ...

    http://topwar.ru/15791-300-spartancev-polkovnika-karyagina.html
  28. SIT
    SIT April 17 2013 15: 21
    +2
    Not of course it is possible with a number, but only to a certain limit because
    "With 200 guns per kilometer of the front, they do not ask or report about the enemy, but report to what line the advancing units have reached!"
    Marshal K. Moskolenko.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 23 2013 14: 26
      0
      Quote: SIT
      Not of course it is possible with a number, but only to a certain limit because
      "With 200 guns per kilometer of the front, they do not ask or report about the enemy, but report to what line the advancing units have reached!"
      Marshal K. Moskolenko.

      200 guns per kilometer - this is the numerical superiority in artillery.
  29. WIN969
    WIN969 April 17 2013 16: 38
    +2
    Suffice it to recall how a handful of barbarians defeated Rome. Smart head, that’s the key to victory.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 17 2013 22: 25
      +1
      Quote: WIN969
      Suffice it to recall how a handful of barbarians defeated Rome. Smart head, that’s the key to victory.

      Fictional barbarians smashed a fictional empire, analytics based on such data will be very useful ... for the enemy.
      1. stalker
        stalker April 17 2013 22: 58
        0
        Calm down already, Fomenkovets wassat
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 17 2013 23: 39
          0
          Quote: stalker
          Calm down already, Fomenkovets

          I could answer you similarly "relax Scaligerovets", are you sure you have chosen the right role model?
          Or are you one of those who sincerely believe in a million Persians under Thermopylae and in six hundred thousand Mongol conquerors?
          Spartans - how much in this word wink
          The number of Greeks is underestimated by at least ten times, the number of Persians is overestimated by at least a hundred times, the date is deepened centuries ago by several thousand years. And on the basis of such a story, are you going to build the tactics of your unit?
          To the delight of the enemies.
          1. Prometey
            Prometey April 18 2013 07: 52
            0
            Setrac
            Do not argue, they still do not understand. People probably still need legends about great deeds like the campaigns of Alexander the Great and his invincible phalanx or medieval Mongol terminators.
          2. Alex
            Alex 2 September 2013 00: 16
            +3
            Quote: Setrac (2)
            The number of Greeks is underestimated at least ten times

            Attention!
            the number of Persians is overstated at least a hundred times

            It is possible, as the winners write the story. But this:
            date deepened centuries ago by several thousand years

            How much is this? The Battle of Thermopylae is 480 BC. Where have you seen "several thousand years"? Even Fomenko and Nosovsky did not come up with such nonsense.
  30. Fox
    Fox April 17 2013 17: 39
    +1
    and Kutuzov in the war with the Turks?! and then some kind of mythical Hollywood Spartans ... sadness. minusanul.
  31. Alexey M
    Alexey M April 17 2013 17: 57
    +1
    In the Boer War, in the early stages of the Boers, the trained and well-armed British were battled. Because they used new tactics. The use of a trained and, therefore, professional army is possible only with small losses. With high losses, the level of training falls, due to replenishment. Therefore, a regular professional army can cope with a many times superior enemy, but after that it can cease to exist. Remember the people's militia and the guard units. War is also a craft and every craft needs to be studied. And naturally, elite units will tear a superior enemy, provided he is not trained. But the question is, can a hundred schoolchildren overtake one world champion in running? Answer. No they can not but they can trample it.
    1. Prometey
      Prometey April 18 2013 07: 45
      0
      Quote: Alexey M
      In the Boer War, in the early stages of the Boers, the trained and well-armed British fought

      It is not paradoxical, but the Boers at the beginning of the war were better armed than the British.
    2. erg
      erg April 18 2013 09: 05
      0
      Actually, in general, you’re right, I’ll only add that a professional soldier who has never participated in the war is not much better than a draft soldier. History knows quite a few examples when non-professionals who fell into the war became talented military leaders, and personnel did not cope. By the way, the guards of the Russian Empire before the Napoleonic Wars were notable for their low combat efficiency. Unfortunately, this was repeated before the First World War. So they said about the cavalry guards that they were able to make a march only to Tsarskoye Selo.
  32. Rainger
    Rainger April 18 2013 19: 26
    0
    What is the argument about?
    It seems that the author and the participants in the dispute to put it mildly do not quite understand what they mean (I'm talking about specific examples):

    1. Thermopylae: The allied detachment of Greek policies, about 5000 people held back the Persian army in a narrow aisle (in my opinion, the real number of Persians was 100 thousand). After the passage was bypassed (the fact of betrayal by the Persians was nevertheless a good intelligence), the kings of Sparta Leonid remained to cover the allies with a detachment of 300 people (personal guard), all died.

    2. Zinoviy Kolobanov: A platoon from 3 KV from an ambush shot a convoy of 40 tanks on the account of Kolobanov himself, in that battle there are 22 tanks.

    3. Crossing the Suvorov Alps: a classic example of a brilliant breakthrough from a hopeless situation due to the "Miracle Strategy" - psychology + tactics and something else to the heap ...

    4. When it comes to Genghis Khan. They somehow forget that he managed to create the impossible at that time - a mobile army that was able to carry out strategic destruction operations. Moreover, the actions of the Tumen of Genghis Khan were coordinated and coordinated. The Wehrmacht nervously smokes on the sidelines ...

    Here are a few more examples from World War II:
    1. Fort Eben-Enamel 60 vs 1500 ...
    2. Pearl Harbor, with the apparent simplicity of the operation, it was almost impossible to achieve surprise ...
    3. Correchidor (Philippines) ...

    If we consider the features of the style of war of Napoleon, Kutuzov and Suvorov, then Napoleon acted according to the principle: "There is no reception against the scrap", Suvorov: "Normal heroes always go around", and Kutuzov tried to win the war without unnecessary bloodshed ...
    1. Setrac
      Setrac April 21 2013 23: 36
      0
      Quote: Rainger
      1. Thermopylae: The allied detachment of Greek policies, about 5000 people held back the Persian army in a narrow aisle (in my opinion, the real number of Persians was 100 thousand). After the passage was bypassed (the fact of betrayal by the Persians was nevertheless a good intelligence), the kings of Sparta Leonid remained to cover the allies with a detachment of 300 people (personal guard), all died.

      More likely 10000 Persians, more logistics will not pull.
      Quote: Rainger
      2. Zinoviy Kolobanov: A platoon from 3 KV from an ambush shot a convoy of 40 tanks on the account of Kolobanov himself, in that battle there are 22 tanks.

      An exception to the rule.
      Quote: Rainger
      3. Crossing the Suvorov Alps: a classic example of a brilliant breakthrough from a hopeless situation due to the "Miracle Strategy" - psychology + tactics and something else to the heap ...

      To clarify, this is a brilliant LIGHT.
      Quote: Rainger
      4. When it comes to Genghis Khan. They somehow forget that he managed to create the impossible at that time - a mobile army that was able to carry out strategic destruction operations. Moreover, the actions of the Tumen of Genghis Khan were coordinated and coordinated. The Wehrmacht nervously smokes on the sidelines ...

      Tu is simply an invention of historians (not Genghis Khan himself, but knowledge about his army).
      Quote: Rainger
      2. Pearl Harbor, with the apparent simplicity of the operation, it was almost impossible to achieve surprise ...

      And the surprise was not achieved, the Americans KNEW and withdrew their aircraft carriers, giving up the battleships, as they say "the sacrifice of the boat."
  33. I think so
    I think so April 19 2013 00: 00
    -1
    An empty little article ... The author not only does not "cut" in the described topic, but also ignores a lot of sensible books on this topic ... And I was especially delighted that examples of commanders who lost their wars were taken for illustration ... This is almost the same as learning to fly on the example of an ostrich ...