Merkava: Israeli tank's effectiveness and invulnerability were "hyped"

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Merkava: Israeli tank's effectiveness and invulnerability were "hyped"

For decades, Israel's main combat танк The Merkava was presented as the "embodiment of engineering thought" and a symbol of military superiority. It acquired a strong image of an invulnerable combat vehicle capable of withstanding virtually any enemy attack and delivering powerful counterattacks.

However, in practice, especially in the context of modern armed conflicts, this reputation is increasingly exaggerated, if not to say “inflated”. This was especially evident during the military operations in the Gaza Strip, where Hamas militants were able to destroy IDF tanks with inexpensive “improvised means”, despite all the “technical advancement” of the latter.



It is worth noting that the Merkava was created with Israel's specific needs in mind: crew survivability, mobility in mountainous terrain, and autonomy were emphasized. For this reason, the tank's design really differs from most Western counterparts.

The engine is located at the front, creating an additional barrier between enemy fire and the crew. The turret is angled to minimize the likelihood of a direct hit, and the Trophy active protection system is designed to intercept anti-tank ammunition before it reaches the hull.

But all these solutions, as it turned out in practice, provide only a relative advantage and are not capable of guaranteeing protection in conditions of asymmetric warfare.

In particular, the tank's protection cannot cope with fast, unpredictable attacks from the flanks and especially with attacks from above. In dense urban areas, where it is difficult to control the perimeter and direction of the threat, the Israeli MBT turns into a fairly easy target.

Explosive devices placed along the route of movement or dropped from drones, easily hit the most vulnerable areas - the roof of the turret and the stern, which even in the latest modification do not have effective protection. It turned out that the "Trophy" is not a magic shield, but only one of the elements of defense, which does not solve all the problems.

The fighting in Gaza has exposed the weaknesses of the Merkava's design in guerrilla warfare. Despite its technical sophistication, the tank remains a heavy, cumbersome machine that loses momentum in confined spaces. This is what has allowed Hamas militants to use homemade charges, antitank missiles, and cheap drones to disable vehicles worth millions of dollars.

As a result, in the conditions of information openness, every destroyed or damaged Israeli tank became the subject of expert discussion, gradually destroying the myth of the invulnerability of the Merkava MBT.

Many of the vehicle's characteristics, including its firepower, armor, and survivability, look impressive on paper. But in real combat, high numbers become meaningless if the tank becomes vulnerable to cheap weapons.

In turn, excuses like “the tank is not designed for street fighting” sound completely frivolous, considering that it is in such conditions that Israel conducts most of its ground operations. The idealized image of the Merkava was formed not so much on the basis of its combat experience, but thanks to active propaganda and the absence of serious losses in the IDF’s first conflicts.

However, similar conclusions can be made not only about the "embodiment of engineering thought" of the Jewish state. After all, the "invincible" on paper American "Abrams" and German "Leopards" burned no less epically in the fields in the SVO and CTO zone (Kursk region) after being hit by Russian kamikaze drones.

In the end, we can say that the Israeli tank is, on the whole, a good combat armored vehicle. But nothing more. The Merkava's reputation as an "invulnerable" tank is clearly "inflated." And Israeli tank crews have fallen into the trap in Gaza more than once.

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  1. 34+
    30 July 2025 21: 25
    Well, everything happens sequentially.
    The myth of some kind of exceptional Holocaust was debunked, showing the fascist grin.

    The "iron" dome turned out to be leaky.

    An invulnerable tank that is invulnerable to civilian fire - but suddenly burns when countered.

    And what's next to be debunked about Jews?
    1. 27+
      30 July 2025 22: 37
      Quote: Kinogeroi
      And what's next to be debunked about Jews?

      According to the situation - that Jews are not victims, but the same predators. Hiding behind the fact that they once ate them, they declared that they now have the right to devour others... request
      1. +4
        31 July 2025 01: 47
        Quote: ian
        Based on the situation, Jews are not victims, but the same predators.

        And this does not depend on nationality...
        1. +2
          3 August 2025 10: 02
          Quote from: AllX_VahhaB
          And this does not depend on nationality...

          Well, how to say, yes, but the Germans, for example, with their lying Goebbels, cannot compare with the Jews in terms of the national characteristics of the Jews, as well as their unsurpassed mendacity, impudence..., yes, everything, take at least the fact that the mortal sins that they themselves recorded allegedly from the followers of Jesus, are now, alas, not written for them. Now for them, mortal sins are a program for the future of the nation.
      2. +8
        31 July 2025 10: 28
        the most predatory predators! insidious and cruel killers! look at beirut!
        and the Merkava is not a tank but a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, very heavy! 75 tons is only for driving on rocky ground.
  2. 13+
    30 July 2025 21: 27
    Marketing is like that, until they explode, they all have the best, but in fact, it's a fake reputation. wassat
  3. 10+
    30 July 2025 21: 34
    Merkava: Israeli tank's effectiveness and invulnerability were "hyped"
    - For people who think, it is quite expected. If the concept of our tanks is the survivability of the combat unit, then the Israelis have the survivability of the crew. The Merkava has front drive wheels, any hit of a kinetic projectile on the lower armor plate means the side wheels are out of order, the tank stops. But the crew, through the door in the rear, escapes from the tank and remains alive. With our tanks, a shell hit in the forehead can lead to concussion of the entire crew, but the tank as a combat unit can perform its functions (drive to the necessary area, shoot, return to base).
    The engine is located at the front, creating an additional barrier between enemy fire and the crew.
    The engine as a protection was relevant in the aircraft of the Second World War, where it provided protection compared to the thin duralumin of the aircraft skin. In relation to armored vehicles, the engine as a protection is complete nonsense. In the advertisements of some revolvers it was indicated that they shoot through the engine cylinder block. The gearbox is still not so bad, there is a lot of iron in the form of a gear, but still it is no comparison in protection with a package of armor plates.
    1. -13
      30 July 2025 21: 46
      Do you even understand what you are writing about?))
      1. +8
        30 July 2025 21: 47
        Quote: teo28
        Do you even understand what you are writing about?))
        Please point out where I am wrong.
        PS
        I know about concussion after a shell hits a tank from tankers who have gone through this.
        1. -31
          30 July 2025 21: 50
          Start with your phrase "for people who understand" - this is not about you. Because in front of you is the entire Internet. But you prefer to read propaganda from incomprehensible authors from Russia, who have only seen the Merkava on TV))
          1. 20+
            30 July 2025 21: 53
            Quote: teo28
            Start with your phrase "for people who are sol-fermenting" - this is not about you.
            In general, it’s clear - instead of discussing technology, they’re getting personal.
            I have no more questions for you.
          2. +9
            30 July 2025 22: 10
            There is no need to quarrel and scandalize. But you should read the opinion of a practitioner - a graduate of the tank school. This is a more objective opinion.
          3. +4
            1 August 2025 11: 21
            Wow, your sidelocks are shiny with sebum!!!
        2. -7
          1 August 2025 19: 13
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Please point out where I am wrong.

          The statement that Merkava is disabled by some hits, but the crew survives, while, say, T-72/90 has no problems, and the shell-shocked crew can continue to fight is a fantasy far from reality. Here comes the question: what are you talking about?)) The article talks about the myth of Merkava's invulnerability. Only there was never any myth about Merkava's invulnerability, but there were statements that the Merkava tank saves the lives of the crew after an ATGM strike or tank shelling, which Merkava, like Leo2 and Abrams, copes with perfectly. But the T-72 and its upgrade T-90 do not guarantee this due to the ammo carried in the BO and weak anti-mine protection. And that's all. If the RF MIC and UVZ cannot handle the development of a new MBT, where all these disadvantages will be taken into account, then they could at least take care of the modification of the same T-72/80/90, removing the ammo from the fighting compartment, so that when hit by ATGMs or kamikaze drones, the tank would not fly apart into molecules along with the crew, but would allow the crew to leave the tank and move to a new one. For example, they could take the developments of the Omsk design bureau from their Ob640 turret projects, which they modified and created the Burlak turret, with a new AZ in a niche behind the turret and a significantly increased level of protection. Since UVZ absorbed all competitors in the early 2000s, the Chelyabinsk, Leningrad and Omsk design bureaus, they also had their developments. But instead of trying to create MBTs based on the experience of Chechnya in particular, which do not fly to pieces, throwing the turret tens of meters away, already from a successful RPG hit, or running over a mine, due to ignition of propellant charges and detonation of shells, and having already developed and solved the problem, they staged an epic PR propaganda with throw-ins a la, and we have this concept, and they have this. That is, they decided to simply replace the obvious unwillingness, or inability to create conditions for the survival of the crew with chatter about concepts and, as can be seen from the popularity of comments like yours, this is going well.
          1. +3
            1 August 2025 19: 30
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            There was never any myth about the invulnerability of the Merkava, but there were statements that the Merkava tank saves the lives of the crew after an ATGM strike or tank shelling, with which the Merkava, as both Leo2 and Abrams are doing a great job. But the T-72 and its upgrade T-90, due to the ammunition carried in the BO and weak anti-mine protection, do not guarantee this.
            That is, the Leo-2 with its main ammunition stowage in the hull (in the fighting compartment) for --- 24 rounds and in the turret for 15 shells is not explosive, but the T-73 conveyor, which is twice as low and is located at the very bottom of the tank, is explosive. Miracles. After the ammunition stowage explodes, the Leo-2's heavy turret does not fly far only because the tank's hull itself, whose walls are four times thinner than those of the T-72-60-90, flies apart.
            1. -8
              1 August 2025 19: 38
              Quote: Bad_gr
              After the ammunition depot explodes, the Leo-2's heavy turret does not fly far only because the tank's hull itself, which has walls four times thinner than the T-72-60-90, is blown apart.

              Besides the strange use of a bare Leo2A4 by the Turks in a vacant lot in Syria, can you give at least one more example, especially from the Leo2A5 version and higher? Especially from the SVO, where these Leo2s were used up and down?? You like to post pictures and some theoretical statements from the times of tank wars before the SVO. But practice has shown that the Leo2 can withstand. In the summer of 2023, about 80 Leo2s of various modifications were used. Of these, 22 were damaged, of which only 4 were irreparable. Not a single crew died from the defeat of their Leo2. These are the facts.
              1. 0
                1 August 2025 20: 12
                In the summer of 2023, about 80 Leo2s of various modifications were used.

                55 2A4 delivered, 21 destroyed (according to Lostarmour), out of 60 2A6 destroyed 9.
                1. -7
                  1 August 2025 20: 53
                  Quote: strannik1985
                  55 2A4 delivered, 21 destroyed (according to Lostarmour), out of 60 2A6 destroyed 9.

                  Damaged, not destroyed. 80% returned to service.
                  1. +3
                    2 August 2025 06: 04
                    Damaged, not destroyed. 80% returned to service.

                    After the case burns out, for example?
                    If across the entire family of 55-61 2A4, 2A6, Strv122A, 2R HMBW delivered to the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 39 were lost, 4 were captured, 10 were damaged.
                    https://lostarmour.info/stats/leopard2
                    1. -8
                      2 August 2025 15: 45
                      Believe what you want, but you are spreading lies. You even managed to record all the damaged, abandoned by the crew, immobilized and finally destroyed and burnt out as irretrievable losses from this site.
              2. +6
                2 August 2025 07: 57
                Quote: karabas-barabas
                Not a single crew died from the defeat of their Leo2. These are the facts.

                Leo with a corpse inside
                https://vkvideo.ru/video-213126902_456287412
                And here it is not visible that anyone managed to escape
                https://yandex.ru/video/preview/5491874350144261148

                So the fact is different for now - you provided false information.
      2. +7
        31 July 2025 12: 51
        Quote: teo28
        Do you even understand what you are writing about?))

        This answer, without providing counterarguments, looks like a kindergarten squabble with tongue-sticking and exclamations like: "You're the dypaк!"
    2. +2
      30 July 2025 22: 31
      The engine as a protection against cumulative charge appeared long before the appearance of the DZ. Therefore, this is just old advertising.
    3. +2
      31 July 2025 10: 30
      Revolvers have very different shot energies, some more than the AK 47, so you have to be careful here.
    4. 0
      1 August 2025 09: 43
      Quote: Bad_gr
      thin duralumin aircraft skin. When applied to armored vehicles, the engine as protection is complete nonsense.

      Yes, if the engine is the only obstacle for the projectile. But... between the engine and the projectile... unexpectedly for you, there is frontal armor. wink
      1. -2
        1 August 2025 11: 47
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Quote: Bad_gr
        thin duralumin aircraft skin. When applied to armored vehicles, the engine as protection is complete nonsense.

        Yes, if the engine is the only obstacle for the projectile. But... between the engine and the projectile... unexpectedly for you, there is frontal armor. wink
        What does frontal armor have to do with it if we are discussing the engine as an obstacle for a projectile?
        1. 0
          2 August 2025 00: 09
          In this context, the engine is discussed as an obstacle for a projectile that has already penetrated the armor and therefore has a significantly reduced kinetic energy, or even, most likely, from fragments of a projectile that has penetrated the armor, from which the engine is quite capable of protecting. the control compartment, the fighting compartment and the crew
        2. 0
          11 August 2025 16: 22
          Quote: Bad_gr
          What does frontal armor have to do with it if we are discussing the engine as an obstacle for a projectile?

          Is the engine open to the projectile? Or will the projectile lose almost all of its kinetic energy, overcoming the frontal armor, the remains of which will be buried by the engine. So yes, the engine is an additional protection in case of penetration of the frontal armor.
          1. 0
            11 August 2025 19: 15
            Quote: Krasnoyarsk
            Quote: Bad_gr
            What does frontal armor have to do with it if we are discussing the engine as an obstacle for a projectile?

            Is the engine open to the projectile? Or will the projectile lose almost all of its kinetic energy, overcoming the frontal armor, the remains of which will be buried by the engine. So yes, the engine is an additional protection in case of penetration of the frontal armor.

            Well, I argue that the engine is an obstacle for the projectile (the Jews estimated the armor penetration of their transmission on the Merkava at 60 mm of armor), but a sheet of armor is much more effective for these purposes. Moreover, armor is a guaranteed defense that can be calculated in advance, and the engine (with transmission) is an unpredictable defense that depends on the place where the projectile hit. And the engine, as an element of protection for armored vehicles, if it fulfills its role as an obstacle for the projectile, then it will immediately lose its main function - it will deprive the tank of mobility and turn it into a stationary target.
    5. 0
      2 August 2025 19: 53
      Quote: Bad_gr
      When it comes to armored vehicles, the engine as a defense is complete nonsense. Some revolvers were advertised as being able to shoot right through the engine block.

      This is an additional space in the path of the cumulative jet, which will not reach the ammunition rack and the crew. There is a video on the Internet (on YouTube) of how an American "Javelin" in service with the Ukrainian army penetrated either the turret or the upper frontal plate of a T-90 tank, and a hot jet penetrated the fighting compartment. The crew was saved by the fact that the AZ ammunition rack was empty, and the fire extinguishing system that was activated extinguished the small fire that had arisen.
  4. 12+
    30 July 2025 21: 36
    It is not quite clear what the article is about. The fact that any equipment is vulnerable in certain conditions has apparently not been disputed by anyone. Carrots are a product for local use, for the realities of Israel, quite effective against makeshift and obsolete weapons available to the Palestinians and the countries immediately surrounding it, helps to reduce losses against such an enemy, that is probably why it was made. And of course, it is vulnerable to many modern weapons.
    1. +8
      30 July 2025 21: 46
      Quote: 123_123
      It's not entirely clear what the article is about.
      Another myth debunked. Until it fought - the most protected tank. Just like the "Leopard-2" - the most advertised tank in Europe. Who hasn't bought it. And in the vastness of Ukraine - it burns like all the other equipment, it is not distinguished by its vitality.
      1. -3
        30 July 2025 21: 58
        Everything is burning. It's natural.
        It's just that some things burn faster and brighter from one simple carrot, while others require several tandems. And the crew stays alive (the most valuable resource).
        Well, plus the tactics of application, of course.
        1. +2
          30 July 2025 22: 33
          Unless of course the RPG flies out the back door.
      2. +2
        31 July 2025 15: 04
        In fact, Merkava is very pleased with the results of street fighting in Gaza.
        Production has increased, another tank brigade is being formed.
        And the infantry is happy with the Merkava as a support vehicle. And its repairability in frontline workshops turned out to be high.
        Anti-tank mines don't take it, only large land mines. RPG hits didn't result in penetrations.
        1. +2
          31 July 2025 16: 41
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Anti-tank mines don't take it out, only large land mines.
          What do you mean by "they don't take"? They disable the chassis, the tank loses mobility and then, depending on the circumstances. Like any other tank. In videos from Ukraine, our tankers said that after hitting a mine, they changed one or two rollers, the balance beam, changed part of the track - and the tank is again combat-ready. Depending on the design of the chassis, tanks suffer from mines in different ways. For example, the T-64 chassis is damaged much more severely by a mine explosion than the T-72 chassis.
          1. -5
            1 August 2025 19: 32
            Quote: Bad_gr
            In videos from Ukraine, our tank crews said that after hitting a mine, they replaced one or two rollers, a balance beam, replaced part of the track - and the tank was again combat-ready.

            This is if the tank is not blown to pieces, which very often happens with all Soviet/Russian MBTs due to its weak anti-mine protection. And it is weak because the design of the tank, the layout of the chassis and weight restrictions do not allow for serious anti-mine protection, like the Leo2 and Abrams, which after modernization even powerful SVU, an order of magnitude more powerful than the TM, protected the crew, although not from concussion, but from death. And so any tank is subject to field repair, changing the roller and track links, this is even included in the spare parts kit of any tank. In the Leo2, you can change the engine + automatic transmission in the field in 15 minutes.
            1. -1
              1 August 2025 19: 35
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              change the roller and track links, this is even included in the spare parts kit of any tank

              There are no rollers in the spare parts kit. And why the hell would they be there? No one would do repairs in a minefield, and there's no way to get off it on just one track. request
              1. -3
                1 August 2025 19: 46
                Quote: Paranoid62
                There are no rollers in the spare parts kit

                Most likely yes, there is no need for rollers, at least because if the rollers have already flown off, then the torsion bars are screwed too. And this is no longer a slapdash repair.
                1. +1
                  1 August 2025 19: 50
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Most likely yes, no need for rollers

                  Not "rather", but they are not there. At least I didn't have them.

                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  if the rollers have already flown off, then the torsion bars {} have come

                  It's not a fact, it's not a fact... my guys once lost a roller in an open field - it just flew off at speed and rolled away somewhere laughing
                  1. +1
                    1 August 2025 20: 33
                    Quote: Paranoid62
                    my guys once lost a roller in an open field - it just flew off at speed and rolled away somewhere
                    We had a case, after driving around the range, we found that the driver's hatch was missing. Tank T-62, hatch together with a 60 or 80 kg barbell (I don't remember exactly). The whole crew searched for it on foot around the range, then carried it to the starting point.
                    1. 0
                      1 August 2025 20: 40
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      We had a case where after driving around the test site, we discovered that the driver's hatch was missing.

                      Hmm... they were tumbling on it, or something... laughing
                  2. -2
                    1 August 2025 20: 57
                    Quote: Paranoid62
                    It's not a fact, it's not a fact... my guys once lost a roller in an open field - it just flew off at speed and rolled away somewhere

                    I saw something like that at the tank biathlon, I think, I don't remember. But we are talking about the impact of mines or ATGMs. In that case, I think the torsion bar is torn off with the roller.
                    1. 0
                      1 August 2025 21: 01
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      In this case, in my opinion, the torsion bar is torn off with the roller.

                      Well, you know better. It never tore me off, not even once.
            2. +2
              1 August 2025 19: 43
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              This is if the tank is not blown to pieces, which very often happens with all Soviet/Russian MBTs due to its weak anti-mine protection.
              More fairy tales. The same "Merkava" has a 15 mm tank bottom, the T-72-80-90 has 20 mm, + an additional armor plate under the driver.
              It turns out that 15 mm of the Merkava is quite sufficient protection against mines, but 20 mm of our tanks is not enough, the tank is immediately blown to pieces by a mine.
              Do you yourself believe this nonsense?
              1. -4
                1 August 2025 19: 52
                Quote: Bad_gr
                More fairy tales. The same "Merkava" tank has a 15 mm bottom

                What Merkava, on your 1:18 scale model? The belly of the Merkava tank may be 18mm, or even 10mm. But that's not the only thing it has, or the modernized Leo2 and Abrams on the bottom. There are several more plates. But again, we take reality, and not the chatter from tank squabbles of the 2000s, we look at this reality and see who holds mines and IEDs, and who flies to pieces.
                1. +1
                  1 August 2025 19: 53
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  But again, let's take reality, not the chatter from the tank fights of the 2000s, look at this reality and see

                  Where to look?
                  1. -3
                    1 August 2025 19: 57
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    Where to look?

                    In Telegram for example! On specialized sites like Orex and many other places. It's strange, you like to write comments about tanks so much, but it seems you don't know that today not a single battle can do without photo and video shooting.
                    1. +2
                      1 August 2025 20: 07
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Where to look?

                      In Telegram for example! On specialized sites like Orex and many other places. It's strange, you like to write comments about tanks so much, but it seems you don't know that today not a single battle can do without photo and video shooting.
                      It's strange. I look everywhere, study the characteristics - my conclusions do not differ from my old ones. I somehow do not believe that a tank with a 20 mm thick side and batteries on the fender can be more durable than ours with an 80 mm side and batteries inside the tank, covered by the main armor.
                      Fairy tales about our tank being blown apart by an anti-tank mine, but Leo-2 not - leave them for children, there is no point in posting them here, there are adults here.
                      1. -3
                        1 August 2025 20: 19
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        It's strange. I look everywhere, study the characteristics - my conclusions do not differ from my old ones.

                        This is because you look at the characteristics anywhere, from the same tank specialists as you.
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        I somehow don’t believe that a tank with a 20mm thick side and batteries on the fender can be more durable than ours with an 80mm side and batteries inside the tank, covered by the main armor.

                        Again, random numbers. Have you run and measured the thickness of the sides of the Leo2 or Abrams? The original base of the tank may be 20mm. But then it is layered with additional armor, lining, both inside and outside, and all together it makes them RPG Rundrumschutz, or in Russian, all-round protection against RPGs.
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        Fairy tales about our tank being blown apart by an anti-tank mine, but Leo-2 not - leave them for children, don't post them here, there are adults here

                        You've apparently been asleep for 3 years and missed a lot, dozens of hours of combat use of the Leo2 and UVZ products. You apparently don't use bourgeois internets... oh, you do, but somehow selectively. Although Telegram is not entirely bourgeois. You yourself are not a tanker and apparently you would never put your son in a T-72. In general, what's more important to you, as it seems to you, is some kind of patriotic theoretical chatter, which should, as it seems to you, prove the advantages of the T-72/90 over bourgeois tanks, which in fact, as the very same reality shows, do not exist.
                      2. +1
                        1 August 2025 20: 26
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        This is because you look at the characteristics anywhere, from the same tank specialists as you.

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Have you run and measured the thickness of the sides of the Leo-2 or Abrams yourself?

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        You've apparently been asleep for 3 years and missed a lot.

                        Maybe I should send you my photo? Let's discuss my facial features...
                        Will there be specific photos with figures on the technique or will you finish discussing my bad behavior?
                      3. -1
                        1 August 2025 20: 52
                        Sorry, but you are posting some numbers that are supposed to prove your theories. But firstly, it is not clear where your numbers are from, you have never had the opportunity to measure the thickness of the overall, spaced armor of the Leo2 sides. And as I have already indicated somewhere above, it protects from RPGs from all angles, that is, it has at least 300 mm from the godfather. And secondly, I repeat for the tenth time, there is experience of combat use, which, moreover, was captured dozens of times on the SVO. And not a single Leo was able to be penetrated in the side by a drone. This is just a fact. You also apparently think that all tanks are made at the same factory, from the same material and with the same production quality? Leo2 has undergone several versions of modernization, not just hanging armor, but changing the brands of armor steel, from version 2A6 the tank has little in common with 2A4. Here is a video of a Lancet, more powerful than an RPG, hitting a niche behind the turret with ammunition. But as we can see, there was no detonation of the ammunition. Naturally, the tank is out of order, or most likely you can no longer shoot from it. Although I am not sure whether the armor rack was penetrated at all in this case.

                        Here is a video from VK

                        https://vk.com/video-107986197_456241109?to=L3ZpZGVvLTEwNzk4NjE5N180NTYyNDExMDk/
                      4. +1
                        2 August 2025 01: 39
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        And not a single Leo managed to hit a drone anywhere on board. That's just a fact.

                        There is a video where the FPV drone Leo 2A6 hit through the lower frontal plate.
                      5. -1
                        2 August 2025 20: 15
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Here is a video of Lancet, more powerful than RPG, hitting the turret niche with ammunition. But as we can see, there was no detonation of the ammunition.

                        And why did you assume that at that moment there were shells in the ammunition rack behind the turret? belay And, yes.... usually the crew prefers to load sub-caliber shells into this niche behind the turret. If there are high-explosive shells there, no blowout panels or armored partitions will guarantee the tankers' survival. Yes
                      6. -1
                        2 August 2025 22: 49
                        Quote: Askold65
                        And why did you assume that at that moment there were shells in the ammunition rack behind the turret?

                        And from the fact that in war a tank usually uses shells and drone attacks occur while moving towards enemy positions, and not from.
                        Quote: Askold65
                        And, yes... usually the crew prefers to load sub-caliber shells into this turret niche.

                        Well, of course, in a war where there are no tank duels, they definitely use sub-caliber ones, because there is nothing better for processing forest plantations!)))
                        Quote: Askold65
                        If there are high-explosive shells there, then no blowout panels or armored partitions will guarantee the tankers' survival.

                        If grandma ends up with... Where do you see the penetration of the turret niche? Or is it an axiom for you that if the Lancet hit with its weak warhead, then it necessarily penetrates the entire tank, as they write in propaganda? The video clearly shows that there was no penetration. But this did not prevent one of the military-patriotic tabloid media from writing how the Lancet pierced the Leo2 from side to side and destroyed it. In general, you can believe what you want along with your uryapatriotic comrades, floodists, this does not change the fact that the Leo2 is better protected than the T-72/80/90, which was previously known, and during the SVO any "patriot" could be convinced of this and it would seem that the domestic military-industrial complex would take measures. It would seem a simple thought - why don't these bourgeois Leo2s and Abrams explode like an atomic bomb when they hit a mine or from an ATGM, saving the crew, while our tanks go boom in most cases? But you veterans of tank squabbles with general's shoulder straps apparently don't consider it necessary to increase the survivability of Russian crews. And you don't give a damn about them in general.
                      7. -1
                        5 August 2025 13: 25
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        And from the fact that in war a tank usually uses shells and drone attacks occur while moving towards enemy positions, and not from.

                        Should I once again convey to you the idea that tank crews, unlike your couch potatoes, do not take full ammunition into battle and put the shells in the most vulnerable places of the tank? And according to statistics, it is the turret that takes the majority of hits. With the advent of drones, the ammunition stowage behind the turret can no longer be covered by the front of the turret.
                        And yes, drones don’t really care which way the tank goes from the front line. Yes
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Well, of course, in a war where there are no tank duels, they definitely use sub-caliber ones, because there is nothing better for processing forest plantations!)

                        I'm talking about Foma, and you're talking about Yerema. American tank crews were putting sub-caliber shells in during the war in Iraq, after tragic incidents with land mines. Ukrainian tank crews simply could NOT have put the OFS in this niche, remembering someone else's bitter experience.
                        Or, for that matter, the ammunition was already spent. And you have already concluded that the Lancet failed to cope with the task.
                        I already mentioned above that
                        There is a video on the Internet (on YouTube) of an American Javelin in service with the Ukrainian army, penetrating either the turret or the upper frontal plate of a T-90 tank, and a hot stream penetrated the fighting compartment. The crew was saved by the fact that the AZ ammunition stowage was empty, and the fire extinguishing system that was activated extinguished the small fire that had arisen.

                        Something similar could have happened in this case. Yes
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        It would seem like a simple thought - why don't these bourgeois Leo2s and Abrams explode like an atomic bomb when they hit a mine or from an ATGM, saving the crew, while our tanks go boom in most cases?

                        Where did you get this information about "most cases"? belay
                        I was just listening to an interview on YouTube with our tank crews, who say that they have to seriously tinker with the Ukrainian T-64/72/80 before they "die out". The tanks are capable of withstanding several, up to ten or more, hits, depending on where they were. The tank crews themselves said that most tank crews die not in the tank, but NEXT to the tank.
                      8. The comment was deleted.
            3. +3
              2 August 2025 16: 14
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              And it is weak because the design of the tank, the layout of the chassis and weight restrictions do not allow for serious anti-mine protection, like the Leo2 and Abrams, which, after modernization, even protected the crew from powerful SVUs, an order of magnitude more powerful than the TMka.
              What is this anti-mine protection of Leo and Abrams tanks? And in general, give links to where you got this from. And at the moment these are just your words (fantasies)
              1. -3
                2 August 2025 16: 25
                Quote: Bad_gr
                What is this anti-mine protection of Leo and Abrams tanks? And in general, give links to where you got this from.

                The fact that in all 100% of runs over mines the Leo2 tank protected the crew, this has been the case since Afghanistan. And there is video recording of Leo2 explosions on mines. You do not have a single piece of evidence refuting my words. Unlike hundreds of videos where T-72/80/90 are blown to pieces in similar situations. But what can you expect from a person who invents some concepts in Russian and Western tank building and posts this nonsense with a smart look))
                1. +2
                  2 August 2025 16: 27
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  What is this anti-mine protection of Leo and Abrams tanks? And in general, give links to where you got this from.

                  The fact that in all 100% of runs over mines the Leo2 tank protected the crew, this has been the case since Afghanistan. And there is video recording of Leo2 explosions on mines. You do not have a single piece of evidence refuting my words. Unlike hundreds of videos where T-72/80/90 are blown to pieces in similar situations. But what can you expect from a person who invents some concepts in Russian and Western tank building and posts this nonsense with a smart look))
                  Links to what this protection consists of?
                  Or will there again be a video from VK as information, with a single tank, with an explosion and an unknown result of this explosion?
                  1. -2
                    2 August 2025 23: 09
                    There are tons of links! There is plenty of photo and video recording of the counter-offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Including the action of the anti-mine protection of MRAPs such as Pro Max, BMP Bradley. But for you, reality is nothing, you prefer to ignore it and continue to pretend to be an expert, having picked up all sorts of nonsense from military-patriotic forums.
                    1. -1
                      3 August 2025 13: 55
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      There are tons of links! There is plenty of photo and video footage of the Ukrainian Armed Forces counter-offensive.
                      You just can't point to them. Probably a secret. All your posts on the topic of tanks have no confirmation in the form of diagrams, specific figures - only accusations that the opponent's data is incorrect, and you yourself look for the correct ones.
                      In my opinion, you are the most uninteresting opponent on this site, since you provide ZERO interesting information on technology.
                      1. -2
                        3 August 2025 18: 01
                        The fact that your theoretical, incomprehensibly sucked from somewhere theorems, which should somehow refute hundreds of times confirmed by many facts, including photo and video, protection of Leo2 crews in contrast to T-72/80/90, look like either a mental disorder or the work of a propagandist, whose task is to talk down problems. You did not provide any schemes or figures, and what you picked up on military-patriotic forums is garbage of no interest to anyone. Even before the SVO, such lovers of tank squabbles caused only bewilderment to you, since even before the SVO, there was the baptism of fire of Abrams and Leo2 in Afghanistan and Iraq, where they showed themselves excellently and did what a tank should do first of all, protect the crew from death, and there was an extremely negative experience of the Russian Armed Forces in Chechnya, where hundreds of T-72/T-80 and a huge number of tankers were lost in battles against detachments of shepherds with small arms. Moreover, you stoically ignore reality in the form of a video of real combat use during the SVO, saying that this is not an argument at all. That is, your chatter, far from reality, should be accepted as fact and the reality captured hundreds of times should be waved away?
        2. +1
          31 July 2025 18: 58
          Production has increased, another tank brigade is being formed.
          Of course it has been increased. The losses need to be replenished. And not at peacetime rates.
        3. 0
          16 August 2025 13: 05
          so they didn't have any real resistance...irregular formations armed with whatever they could find..
      3. -3
        1 August 2025 19: 24
        Quote: Bad_gr
        About another myth debunked.

        But there was no myth, and no debunking of it. No one anywhere spoke about the invulnerability of the Merkava tank, they spoke about the highest level of crew protection, which remains a fact.
        Quote: Bad_gr
        as well as "Leopard-2" - the most advertised tank in Europe. Who hasn't bought it. And in the vastness of Ukraine - it burns like all the other equipment, it is not distinguished by its vitality.

        Of course, Leo2 does not burn like any other equipment, in order to destroy it, you need an order of magnitude more ATGM weapons. Which, in my opinion, is what the SVO has shown. And again, what was stated - high crew survivability, then Leo2 holds up better than others. There is not a single known case of a crew death in a knocked-out Leo2 in the SVO. It does not fly apart into molecules along with the crew like the T-72/80/90/64 when running over a mine, or when a kuma hits a BO. And the first collapse of orders was after the use of Leo2 in Afghanistan, the first baptism of fire by ATGM shelling and under the explosions of IEDs, and based on the experience of the SVO, Rheinmetall was so inundated with orders that they have to build new factories, and the shares jumped by 3000%. This is how the myth was debunked that Leo2 also burns like everything else.
        1. +1
          1 August 2025 19: 35
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          Of course, Leo2 does not burn like any other equipment, in order to destroy it, you need an order of magnitude more ATGM weapons. Which, in my opinion, is what the SVO showed.
          There is a video on YouTube where Leo-2 burned up from a single drone hit in the rear right part of the turret. Note, not in the part where the first-priority ammunition is stored (the rear left part of the turret) - they hit the turret from the top right - the tank burned up.
          1. -2
            1 August 2025 19: 43
            Quote: Bad_gr
            There is a video on YouTube where Leo-2 burned up from a single drone hit to the rear right side of the turret.

            Well, don't distort the facts like that! It's not about Leo2 not burning at all. They threw a high explosive charge into an OPEN HATCH!!! Into a tank that, after being hit by an ATGM, drone, or running over a mine, did what it was supposed to, saved the crew, the crew opened the hatches, ran away wherever their eyes looked until artillery or drones covered them. Then a drone flew in with a high explosive charge and burned the tank. What exactly did you want to prove with this example?
            1. +1
              1 August 2025 19: 51
              Quote: karabas-barabas
              What exactly did you want to prove with this example?
              What he said:
              a fully functional tank burned from one explosion of a quadcopter in the right. rear part of the turret. Your examples of other cases of burning of these tanks, only complement what I said - Leo-2 is a heavily hyped tank, with modest capabilities.
              1. -2
                1 August 2025 19: 55
                Quote: Bad_gr
                What he said:
                A fully functional tank burned down from a single quadcopter explosion on the right.

                That is, Leo2 was driving on a combat mission, for some reason with the hatches open, because that’s exactly how tanks go on a combat mission, when there’s a high probability of getting a landmine from a drone right in the hatch?!

                This is the whole point of your comments. Did UVZ send you to distract from their professional incompetence with chatter from 2000s forums?))
                1. 0
                  1 August 2025 19: 56
                  Quote: karabas-barabas
                  That is, Leo2 was driving on a combat mission, for some reason with his eyes open.
                  Where in my messages did you read about open hatches?
                  1. -2
                    1 August 2025 20: 09
                    How could he throw a landmine into a closed one? You can share the link. Here's the thing, let's say you meant a kamikaze drone that crashed into a Leo2 with a carrot right into the turret on the move. I know of such a case. But again, the crew, shell-shocked and wounded, was able to leave the tank and get away, there was no instantaneous rupture of the tank, as often happens with UVZ in such cases, because there is nothing there to instantly explode, there are no powder charges or shells in the BO. In short, your theories about how Russian MBTs were made for one thing, and Western ones for another are somehow out of touch with reality. In fact, UVZ simply either does not want or is not able to develop or modernize Russian tanks so that they at least do not throw turrets. And I already wrote to you somewhere, the Omsk design bureau developed a universal turret "Burlak" for all types of Russian MBTs in the 90s. By the way, it allowed to leave the AZ in place, if necessary, but the conveyor-type MZ allowed to prevent the destruction of the crew with the tank. But you are not interested in such nonsense, pardon me.
                    1. 0
                      1 August 2025 20: 16
                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      Well, let's say you meant the kamikaze drone that crashed into Leo2 on the march right into the tower with a carrot. I know of such a case.
                      This is exactly the case. On the right side, in the back of the turret. there is nothing but electronics. Nevertheless. it completely failed.

                      Quote: karabas-barabas
                      In short, your theories about how Russian MBTs were made for one thing, and Western ones for another, are somehow not true.

                      Again, don't attribute to me things I didn't say.
                      The protection of all tanks (except the Merkava) is focused on the survivability of the tank as a combat unit. And only the Merkava is focused on the survivability of the crew, first and foremost.
                      1. -4
                        1 August 2025 20: 38
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        And only the Merkava is designed for crew survivability, first and foremost.

                        All Western tanks are designed for crew survivability first and foremost, what good is a tank if there is no crew? In general, all MBTs are made with combat survivability in mind, so that, for example, an APC doesn't drive up and can't disable a tank with a couple of volleys, the tank can respond with return fire. Only unlike the A1M2, Leo2A5 and above, modern Russian tanks are based on the T-72 since the 70s, they only have more armor on some firing courses, we don't take ERA into account, it is hung everywhere. But since the T-90 is limited in weight, due to the engine and design features of the bottom and chassis, no matter how hard you try, you can't make such a level of protection on it.
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        This is exactly the case.

                        There is a big difference between being disabled by an ATGM strike and being destroyed with the crew, in my opinion. Or are you going to claim that T-72/80/90s are not disabled by such strikes?
                      2. +1
                        2 August 2025 01: 52
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        But since the T-90 is limited in weight, due to the engine and design features of the bottom and chassis, no matter how hard you try, you can’t make such a level of protection on it.

                        I can't say anything about the T-90, but the T-72B's armor is well known. There is a lot of steel in the frontal projection, unlike Western tanks, which, when tested, have a lot of air in their armor packs...
                        The special feature of our tanks is their dense layout, which allows for very good armor.
                      3. 0
                        2 August 2025 15: 31
                        Quote: rytik32
                        The trick of our tanks

                        Only for some reason their tanks hold up better than Kuma and Kinetics, which is again confirmed by 3 years of practice of the SVO and the experience of the fighters, but this herd of Urya-patriotic chatterboxes is of little interest.
                      4. +1
                        2 August 2025 15: 52
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        But for some reason their tanks hold up better than Kuma and Kinetics

                        Only in the stories of couch warriors they hold more

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        confirmed by 3 years of SVO practice

                        Do you have proof?

                        Here is Leo 2A6 with the forehead pierced through by fpv, i.e. it was hit by PG-7VL or an older grenade. Admire this cardboard tank, which can't even hold a grenade launcher in the forehead.
                      5. 0
                        2 August 2025 15: 55
                        Only the tank is whole and combat-ready, judging by everything. And what do T-72/80/90 look like when the lower front plate, upper front plate, sides and other places are damaged, there are about 5000 videos and photos for each.
                      6. 0
                        2 August 2025 15: 57
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Only the tank is intact and combat-ready, apparently.

                        You made a very unfortunate joke. This tank is completely burnt out.
                        There are photos and videos of him on LostAmore.
                      7. -3
                        2 August 2025 15: 59
                        Well, yes, in the photo we see a completely burnt out tank))) Now you will just randomly paste a photo of some burnt out Leo2 and say, well, here it is, 5 minutes later. )))
                      8. 0
                        2 August 2025 16: 03
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        In the photo we see a completely burnt out tank)))

                        Yeah, and half of the rollers he has from the T-80 are from the factory laughing
                        This tank is located in Saint Petersburg near Victory Park, I saw it with my own eyes and there are a lot of its photos on the Internet.
                      9. 0
                        2 August 2025 16: 10
                        Quote: rytik32
                        This tank is located in Saint Petersburg near Victory Park, I saw it with my own eyes and there are a lot of its photos on the Internet.


                        Is this the Leo2 abandoned by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, the barrel of which had to be bent to make it look tired?)) But it burned out on Lostmore, according to your stories? ))) Did they paint it again? And why did they give it rollers from a T-80? Did non-ferrous metal miners steal them on the way to the exhibition?))
                      10. 0
                        2 August 2025 16: 13
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        This is the Leo2 abandoned by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, whose barrel had to be bent.

                        No, another one.

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Did they paint it again?

                        What, you can't see it???

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Why did they give him rollers from a T-80?

                        I assume that the originals were partially lost during towing, since in the videos of its defeat the rollers are in place.
                      11. -2
                        2 August 2025 15: 59
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        the tank is intact and combat-ready, judging by everything

                        Looks combat ready? Funny definition. laughing
                      12. -1
                        2 August 2025 16: 03
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        Looks combat ready? Funny definition.

                        What is it like? Justify the funny definition I gave? Which definition do you like better? Whole? Maybe it's burnt out? The tower is lying 50m further away, as are the remains of the crew?
                      13. -1
                        2 August 2025 16: 06
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        What is he like? Justify the funny definition I gave?

                        Easy. I just saw tanks not only in photos and videos.

                        The car that stands in the park is worthless. It is not a fact that it is combat-ready. Although it looks almost new.
                        A car that drives and shoots on a directrix is not a fact that it is combat-ready. No one said that the engine no longer drives shavings, and that it... at least has been sighted in laughing

                        What's funny about you is that you're trying to argue with practitioners while being an internet entity yourself. Dixie.
                      14. -2
                        2 August 2025 16: 18
                        Quote: Paranoid62
                        What's funny about you is that you're trying to argue with practitioners while being an internet entity yourself. Dixie.

                        The funny thing about you and your sect is that you are just flooding and trying to prove something incomprehensible without having any facts. What you are a practitioner of is of little interest to anyone. I will repeat myself for the last time, even before the SVO it was clear to any adequate person, not infected with the nonsense of tank squabbles, that the level of protection of the A1M2 or Leo2A6 crew is higher than that of Russian tanks, which are essentially Soviet tanks, and the SVO has very clearly confirmed this. No matter how much you flood here, the fact remains a fact, the survivability of the crew in the A1M2 and Leo2 is higher than in the T-72/80/90.
                      15. 0
                        2 August 2025 16: 20
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        The funny thing about you and your sect is that you are just flooding

                        This is for you Yes

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        I'll repeat myself for the last time...

                        The good news is that it's "the last one". They've really gotten on my nerves already.

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        No matter how you flood here

                        So don't flood. And you won't be flooded. Internet expert laughing
                      16. +1
                        2 August 2025 16: 27
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        The crew survivability in the A1M2 and Leo2 is higher than in the T-72/80/90

                        Do you know why this mantra is repeated over and over again?
                        Because we have no way of checking who and how many survived!
                      17. 0
                        2 August 2025 23: 00
                        Quote: rytik32
                        Because we have no way of checking who and how many survived!

                        Of course you can. When you and others like you present all sorts of theoretical nonsense as ironclad facts, like the numbers on the side thickness of bourgeois tanks, which supposedly proves their cardboard nature, you somehow all unanimously ignore the video recording of the defeat of literally every tank for the last 3 years, where everything is clearly visible and all your joint flood flies into the trash. It is visible where the crew together with the tank is scattered into molecules, and where it is possible to leave the damaged vehicle. Your joint attempts to prove the opposite look like the behavior of crazy sectarians.
                      18. +1
                        2 August 2025 23: 06
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        You present nonsense as ironclad facts, like the numbers on the thickness of the sides of bourgeois tanks, which supposedly proves their cardboard nature

                        So everything has already been measured. The thickness of the Leo2A4 side in the area of the engine compartment is 20 mm. Even a large-caliber machine gun can penetrate it from a close distance.
                        And you are raving about some 300 mm from the godmother
                      19. -1
                        2 August 2025 23: 14
                        Quote: rytik32
                        So everything has already been measured. The thickness of the Leo2A4 side in the area of the engine compartment is 20 mm. Even a large-caliber machine gun can penetrate it from a close distance.
                        And you are raving about some 300 mm from the godmother

                        You show an empty bathtub, not the entire tank, and you've never measured anything, you don't understand a damn thing about this topic. Everyone saw how the Bradley IFV knocked out a T-90 with its 25mm "puka", as your kind loved to call the 25mm Bushmaster Bradley before the SVO, comparing it to the 2A42, but I haven't seen how the Leo2 penetrated it with not only a large-caliber machine gun, but also an ATGM, so that it flew into pieces. What difference does it make to you what the thickness of the plates is and your other theoretical chatter, when the Leo2 tank as a whole protects its crew when it is hit?
                      20. 0
                        4 August 2025 14: 41
                        . Everyone saw how the Bradley IFV took down a T-90 with its 25mm "pop gun"

                        But here it is not necessary. This has already been discussed more than once. You probably watched the Ukrainian cut version with "total victory"? And have you seen the full version?
                        There was a drone that arrived and damaged the tank's turret rotation mechanism, after which it began to rotate on its own. The crew even had to fix the turret with the gun barrel against a tree. After which the Bradleys came in. Two, by the way. They fired at the tank, fired. They shot down the attachments, yes, but they couldn't penetrate the tank. After which the crew decided to abandon the vehicle. And they did.
                        That is, stupidly in fact - the tank was not destroyed, it was abandoned due to the impossibility of conducting combat. Having withstood the arrival of a drone and massive shelling from two infantry fighting vehicles.
                      21. +1
                        2 August 2025 23: 13
                        Catch an assessment of the protection of Western tanks from ATGMs
                        https://t.me/WalkingDustSW/5866
                      22. -2
                        2 August 2025 23: 17
                        With some kind of manic persistence, will you continue to ignore reality, the real combat use that has been captured on video hundreds of times, instead confirming your rightness with some incomprehensible assessments, it is not clear who and when?
                      23. The comment was deleted.
                      24. The comment was deleted.
                      25. The comment was deleted.
                      26. +2
                        2 August 2025 20: 35
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        But for some reason their tanks hold up better than Kuma and Kinetics, which is again confirmed by 3 years of SVO practice.

                        The Achilles heel of the Leo2, like its, so to speak, "ancestor" - the "Panther", is the weak roof and sides of the hull. Even Western experts note this. It is not for nothing that the Ukrainians hang boxes with "Contact" ERA on the turret and other elements of the Leo2 hull. But for FPV operators, the "tasty spot" is to fly under the wedge-shaped turret at the junction with the hull.
                      27. -2
                        2 August 2025 22: 30
                        Quote: Askold65
                        The Achilles heel of Leo2, as well as its, so to speak, "progenitor" - "Panther", is the weak roof and sides of the hull. Even Western experts note this

                        Not like the T-90/80/72, they have all this strong)))
                        Quote: Askold65
                        For FPV operators, the sweet spot is to fly under the wedge-shaped tower where it meets the hull.

                        From the section of stories that I make up on the fly))) Since this is a tasty morsel for drone operators, then apparently it has been practiced a bunch of times? Is there any information about this?
                      28. 0
                        5 August 2025 12: 54
                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        Not like the T-90/80/72, they have all this strong)))

                        Their sides are better able to withstand small-caliber gun shells.

                        Quote: karabas-barabas
                        From the section of stories that I make up on the fly))) Since this is a tasty morsel for drone operators, then apparently it has been practiced a bunch of times? Is there any information about this?

                        Why a fairy tale? Into this "pocket" and for enemy tankers, as they say, God himself ordered to send a shell or ATGM. In the best case, the turret will jam, but everything is much worse...
                        I saw a video in Telegram of how the FPV was aimed exactly there.
                      29. 0
                        2 August 2025 17: 29
                        Quote: rytik32
                        I won't say anything about the T-90,
                        There was information that in the upper armor plate package, in addition to armor plates and textolite, 2 sheets of titanium armor were added. There was no information in what years this was practiced.
                        And in the photo is the additional armor of the Leo-2 turret.
            2. 0
              30 August 2025 22: 42
              For all arguments, there is always an explanation made up on the spot. Now even the hatch is open...)))) like, rape... so it's her own fault, she was lying down, her legs not moving... or earlier: hit, but not destroyed... how is that? Should they have been blown to pieces? The fact that the Palestinians, not having a fully-fledged anti-tank defense system, burn these carrots almost in industrial quantities, is not an argument for you. People like you always say: "they" have it, but we have crap. Sounds familiar. Did you demand proof? They presented it to you, and you - this is not an argument... it is useless to prove anything here...
    2. +1
      31 July 2025 12: 59
      Quote: 123_123
      And of course it is vulnerable to many modern weapons.

      Is the RPG-7 model 1961 a modern weapon?
    3. +3
      1 August 2025 09: 48
      Quote: 123_123
      Carrots - a product for local use, under the realities of Israel, quite effective against artisanal and obsolete

      I don't think the T-90M or T-72B3M would have looked better in those conditions.
      There are no invulnerable tanks, only successful use of them.
      1. 0
        1 August 2025 11: 23
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        Quote: 123_123
        Carrots - a product for local use, under the realities of Israel, quite effective against artisanal and obsolete

        I don't think the T-90M or T-72B3M would have looked better in those conditions.
        There are no invulnerable tanks, only successful use of them.

        That's right, no one argues
    4. +2
      1 August 2025 11: 29
      In the end, we can say that the Israeli tank is, on the whole, a good armored combat vehicle. But nothing more.
      What, someone came up with a "totally invulnerable" vehicle? What are we talking about? A tank is a collection of compromises, where the qualities that correspond to the concept laid down by the designers prevail. Alas, there are no ideal tanks!
    5. -1
      2 August 2025 22: 46
      In short, what is the article about? Don't trust advertising! Even more, don't trust military equipment advertising.
  5. -13
    30 July 2025 21: 44
    My God. The author himself came up with something, and then refuted his own inventions.
    Author: In polite society it is customary to back up your words.
    Please provide proof where the IDF stated what you said.
    Or should we take the inventors (you) at their word?
    And everyone knows how to shake the air with empty propaganda.
    1. +3
      31 July 2025 19: 03
      Quote: teo28
      In polite society it is customary to back up your words.
      Please provide proof where the IDF stated what you said.

      easily
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Production has increased, another tank brigade is being formed.

      and one of them was smashed, that's it
  6. 10+
    30 July 2025 21: 51
    Gaza has generally debunked many myths about Zionists.
  7. +7
    30 July 2025 22: 02
    Strange crap... The Merkavas showed their true nature during the Second Lebanon War, they burned by the dozens, but the crew's survival rate was almost 100%... unfortunately
    1. +3
      30 July 2025 22: 41
      Have you tried using a machine gun on the crew that got out of the tank?
      1. 0
        31 July 2025 13: 02
        Quote: Seamaster
        Have you tried using a machine gun on the crew that got out of the tank?

        This tactic began to be used simultaneously with the appearance of the first tanks during WWI.
  8. +6
    30 July 2025 22: 21
    Merkava: Israeli tank's effectiveness and invulnerability were "hyped"
    Aliena nobis, nostra aliis, meaning If one man builds it, another can always take it apart
  9. 0
    30 July 2025 22: 29
    The Merkva has armor at the level of the T72B, the Chinese wrote about this and posted armor tables.
    1. +4
      30 July 2025 23: 13
      There are many photos of Merkavas with the engine cover open, which can be used to estimate the armor thickness. The armor there is at the level of the T-62M. It is very far from the T-72B.
      1. +4
        30 July 2025 23: 23
        And to lift this engine cover, you need a crane.
        1. +3
          30 July 2025 23: 26
          Somehow I can't find the Chinese table...
          1. +1
            30 July 2025 23: 28
            Who knows what's inside..
            1. 0
              30 July 2025 23: 33
              Of course, this all can't be compared with Abrams and Leopards.
            2. +1
              30 July 2025 23: 42
              The 4th photo clearly shows the thickness of the hatch cover
              1. -1
                31 July 2025 00: 08
                Thicknesses of the Namer can be loaded into the pile.
                1. 0
                  31 July 2025 00: 12
                  Something more compact based on the T90 wouldn't hurt.
                  1. 0
                    31 July 2025 11: 14
                    The armor is given according to the old "Merkava", the modern one is slightly different.
                    The hull side is 35 mm - for the T72-80-90 it is 80 mm (in the engine area 70 mm)
                    The bottom of the "merkava" is 15 mm, the T72-80-90 - 20 mm + an additional armor plate under the driver (protection from detonation)
                    1. 0
                      31 July 2025 16: 56
                      So I wrote that it is Merkava 3 in 450mm.
                      1. -1
                        31 July 2025 18: 42
                        Quote: Totor5
                        So I wrote that it is Merkava 3 in 450mm.

                        "450mm" - where is this?
                      2. -1
                        31 July 2025 18: 49
                        "All the protection of the Merkava is in the hinged panels. I can't find the table, but the Chinese estimated the Merkava 450's forehead protection at 3mm from APFSDS."
                      3. 0
                        31 July 2025 19: 32
                        Quote: Totor5
                        "All the protection of the Merkava is in the hinged panels. I can't find the table, but the Chinese estimated the Merkava 450's forehead protection at 3mm from APFSDS."
                        I see. But I can't get such numbers. For example, let's take an ideal situation:
                        the tank is driving straight towards the gun. A shell from the enemy gun hits the lower armor plate, to the right of the driver (let's consider him lucky) and passes through the lower frontal plate (50 mm), the fuel tank, another armor plate (50 mm), then comes the armor in front of the engine compartment (100 mm), the engine block (its armor resistance is equal to 60 mm armor), and the armor plate in front of the fighting compartment. And that's it: 50+50+100+60+80 = 390мм
                        Let's take another option. The shell hits the upper armor plate. Again, past the driver: I don't count the engine, since it's below the trajectory. And so the frontal plate 100+75 +50 (the projectile could have passed higher, then these 50 mm do not need to be counted) +100+80 = 405 mm.
                        The T-72 has a frontal VLD that covers everything (both the driver and the combat personnel). In addition to the armor plates and textolite in the upper armor plate package, there is also ERA on top, which the Merkava does not have. I repeat, the Merkava's hull side is 35 mm (the T-72 has 80 mm). The Merkava's side (like the T-72) is also covered by a false side, but I have no information on its protective properties.
                        PS
                        Most of the hits hit the turret.
                      4. +1
                        31 July 2025 20: 53
                        Do you have any precise official data on Jewish combined armor? These are all assumptions. Personally, I think it's time to switch from focusing on armoring the Course Angles.
                        I only said here what I saw in the Chinese table and I think that the 450mm Merkava3 is not some kind of cosmic indicators.

                        Unfortunately, I can't find this table, I only found this one.
                      5. 0
                        31 July 2025 23: 57
                        Quote: Totor5
                        Do you have any precise official data on Jewish composite armor?
                        There is no such.
                        Recently, the Jews have supplemented the protection of their tanks with barbecues.
                      6. -1
                        1 August 2025 00: 01
                        Are these barbecues really just a waste of time?
          2. -1
            30 July 2025 23: 40
            Quote: Totor5
            Somehow I can't find the Chinese table...

            Here https://topwar.ru/138769-tank-merkava-koncepciya-vozrastom-40-let.html see my post from April 3, 2018 09:38
            Is this the diagram you meant?
        2. +1
          30 July 2025 23: 45
          The thickness of the steel in the front of the 4th Merkava turret was estimated at 200...220 mm, i.e. approximately at the level of the T-62. But the Merkava also has additional modules with "reflective sheets" on the outside, which only work against the Kuma.
          1. -1
            31 July 2025 00: 05
            All the protection of the Merkava is in the hinged panels. I can't find the table, but the Chinese estimated the Merkava450's forehead protection at 3mm from APFSDS.

            Mango takes at least 500mm, that is, T72 hits Merkava in any part.... as well as Merkava. True, now there is also Merkava 4.
            1. +1
              31 July 2025 01: 15
              As practice shows, all tanks of the same generation are approximately the same in protection and armament. Some lose in some areas, others win.
              During wars, the question is already about the ability to produce them, in sufficient quantities, and to repair them.
              In small conflicts, there are enough wonder weapons, in single copies, but in the war in Ukraine, for example, it is immediately clear that they do not provide an advantage; they need to be reproduced in quantities sufficient to wage war.
              And everything burns the same, and the crews, trained, manage to escape, in many cases. But the tanks that are finished off later, do not return and they must be quickly built and sent to fight.
      2. 0
        31 July 2025 19: 24
        Quote: rytik32
        The armor there is on par with the T-62M.

        If you are talking about the upper MTO cover, which is also the VLD, then in addition to the thickness of the armor, there is also an angle there that the T-62 never dreamed of. And to hit the normal, you need to hit from above, this only happens in urban combat. However, now, as it turned out in the SVO, rooftop bombers can also hit there, as well as drones, if there are any that have a cumulative charge oriented vertically.
        1. +1
          31 July 2025 21: 29
          Quote: Nagan
          If you are talking about the upper cover of the engine compartment, which is also the upper glacis plate, then in addition to the thickness of the armor, there is also an angle that the T-62 never dreamed of.

          For modern sub-caliber projectiles this is not a problem.
          If you believe the Chinese diagram of the Merkava 3 (see below), then the VLD is only 55mm/75 degrees.
          While the S-tank has a VLD of 60 mm/ 78 degrees and it was penetrated by an ancient T-72 shell right through
  10. +2
    31 July 2025 04: 07
    Quote: 123_123
    Carrots - a product for local use, under the realities of Israel

    The Merkava was originally designed for war in a specific region. Even the Israeli military said so
  11. +1
    31 July 2025 04: 36
    All weapons should be assessed based on the results of use against an enemy EQUAL in strength and resources. Against REBELS you can praise anything. Having gained air supremacy, you can brag about everything else. The dome turned out to have holes, the tank is not particularly reliable. I don't think it will come to testing the strength of aircraft carriers and silo-based missiles.
    1. +1
      31 July 2025 21: 29
      yeah, when it comes to checking the hatches of the ballistics mines, you can wrap yourself in a sheet and crawl to the cemetery
      1. 0
        1 August 2025 13: 56
        The wind will carry the ashes, a sheet is not necessary.
  12. -1
    31 July 2025 06: 27
    As for me, I like the idea of having the engine in the front and it gives more volume in the back, you can also carry 4 people as cover, I don’t understand why the T-72 can’t be converted into a Russian Merkava recourse
    1. +3
      31 July 2025 19: 20
      As for me, I like the idea of having the engine in the front and it gives more volume in the back, you can also carry 4 people as cover.
      The conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza have shown that it doesn't matter where the engine is if an attack can come from any angle. And much less often from the front.
    2. -1
      31 July 2025 20: 06
      Quote: air wolf
      I like the idea with the engine in the front
      An idea with many advantages, although not without its drawbacks.
      Quote: air wolf
      Why T-72 can't be converted into Russian Merkava recourse
      Because reworking it won't do, it will be a completely different tank. The Soviet/Russian school is a low height, super-dense layout, and the VLD is the main protective element. When the Jews reworked the T-54/55/62 into the heavy Achzarit APC, they refused to move the MTO forward - obviously there were reasons. If you make a Russian Merkava, you will get something similar to the Merkava, a very powerful LLD and a lightweight, but almost horizontal VLD, which is also the MTO cover. With the turret, of course, it is different, the Soviet/Russian school is an automatic loader, and the Jews have a manual one, where do they even get African Americans?tongue in loading, it is not clear, but in Russia they generally do not exist.
      And given the realities of the SVO, it is unclear what kind of tank is needed for the future, if it is needed at all.
  13. +2
    31 July 2025 07: 33
    The Holocaust is not just about the Jews.
    It's just that the Jewish story is the most inflated.
    In general, the Holocaust is about Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and others.
    1. -2
      31 July 2025 19: 46
      Quote: Denis812
      It's just that the Jewish story is the most inflated.
      If we consider the ratio of victims to the pre-war population, then even Belarus, where a quarter of the population died, is only second by a huge margin. And there is a significant proportion of Jews among the dead residents of Belarus.
      Quote: Denis812
      In general, the Holocaust is about Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and others.
      All the others (I'm talking about civilians, the military is separate), including Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, simply got caught in the crossfire because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. And the Nazis hunted the Jews purposefully and systematically. Another thing is that the Nazis planned to replace the Slavic population with the Aryans, it is clear by what methods. But while the German women were still giving birth, someone had to cultivate the "eastern lands", so the Holocaust of the Slavs did not come.
      1. 0
        31 July 2025 21: 31
        If you count the ratio before and after the war, the worst "holocaust" was among the gypsies.
        1. 0
          1 August 2025 15: 12
          The Nazis considered the Gypsies to be Aryans, only leading an asocial lifestyle. In fact, the Nazis had different attitudes towards different branches of the Gypsy people.
          1. 0
            3 August 2025 09: 49
            well, well, yes - and the Nazis were kind and there were Romanians, why cast a shadow on the fence - read the Nuremberg materials (I read them as a child) there is a reference to the order to destroy all gypsies, sometimes they were simply rolled over by tanks.
  14. -1
    31 July 2025 13: 32
    The time of tanks has passed, we must accept this... their future is unclear((
  15. 0
    1 August 2025 13: 08
    The article is well written, I agree with the discussion, but I still think it's a good tank and definitely worth looking into. am
  16. -2
    1 August 2025 17: 14
    The discussion is competent and interesting. But I would like to note that there can be no ideal tanks, just like any other weapon. And if designers manage to create a wonder weapon, it usually turns out that it is either excessively expensive, or has operational shortcomings, or an effective and inexpensive "antidote" is soon found.
    1. 0
      4 August 2025 06: 45
      The pursuit of the ideal leads to the creation of the best weapons. The search for balance and compromise in the characteristics of combat vehicles is military history hi
  17. 0
    1 August 2025 18: 49
    A quality article with many indisputable facts that even the author was embarrassed to point out.
  18. +1
    2 August 2025 07: 57
    Merkava is not a MBT. All tanks were designed as general-purpose battlefield vehicles, Merkava is an exception. A highly specialized design for maximum crew survival, expectations were not met. hi
    1. -3
      3 August 2025 07: 47
      Merkava is a regular MBT with enhanced protection for crew survivability.
      It has a Trophy KAZ for protection against nuclear weapons, the shells are stored in protective fire-fighting containers,
      add-on ceramic armor with DZ elements. The tank is protected from below by an additional armor plate against mines.
      The tank performed well in street battles in Gaza. It was sent into the thick of urban developments, into narrow streets.
      And the losses were minimal. Almost all were from large land mines.
  19. -1
    2 August 2025 09: 04
    It's like tilting at windmills.
    The media came up with a myth, then they spend years debunking it, writing articles, filming videos, money, fees, donations, salaries...

    Any modern tank (designed to withstand a 120-125 mm shell/rocket from the front and sides) will collapse if you hit it with an anti-ship missile at 200 mm. Or from above, etc.
  20. P
    -2
    2 August 2025 14: 03
    1 there was never any myth 2 Merkava is NOT an OBT
  21. +1
    2 August 2025 18: 30
    Well, they have their own rating among Western MBTs. ABRAMS-Leo2A5-6-7...and there is a comparison with Merkava.
  22. -1
    3 August 2025 06: 31
    Change the name of the tank, you will get an article about any tank.
  23. 0
    4 August 2025 10: 46
    There are export figures. And there are main competitors in NATO.
    At the moment, the most successful is the T2 and the howitzer based on it from South Korea. Before that, there was the LeoA2.