Soviet aircraft manufacturers could not have imagined that Polish Air Force MiG-29s would intercept Russian aircraft over the Baltic Sea.

European NATO countries continue to jointly control flights of Russian Aerospace Forces aircraft over the international waters of the Baltic Sea. They call it "protecting the eastern borders" of the alliance in Europe.

This time, the joint patrol was completed by the air forces of 13 NATO countries as part of Operation Chessman (eAR). In addition to long-standing members of the alliance, Sweden also took part for the first time, and the British Air Force traditionally participated. The main airfield was the 22nd Base of the Polish Tactical Air Force. aviation in Malbork.

More than 460 interventions were allegedly recorded during the mission, which saw NATO aircraft spend some 20 hours in the air. The core of the combat wing was made up of fighters from the Royal Air Force (RAF).

To our Polish and Swedish air force allies, our bond is even stronger, together we defend and will defend NATO airspace.

— the Polish military magazine Polska Zbrojna quotes British Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Jacob as saying.

But that’s not the most interesting thing. It turns out that the Polish Air Force, together with the Swedish Saab JAS 39 Gripen, “intercepted” Russian combat aircraft over the Baltic, using Soviet fourth-generation multi-role fighters MiG-29 for this purpose.

These are precisely the aircraft that Poland inherited after the collapse of the USSR and the end of the Warsaw Pact, which the country’s Foreign Minister and Defense Minister refused to hand over to Kyiv in response to persistent requests from the Ukrainians back in November of last year.

Aircraft manufacturers in the USSR could not even imagine that MiG-29s of the Polish Air Force would intercept Russian aircraft over the Baltic... Just as they could not imagine, in principle, that MiGs and Sukhois would oppose each other over what was then called the Ukrainian SSR.

Comments

[I dare to_notice_]

Weapons SHOULD NOT be a commodity.
You, uncles... "either put on your underwear... or take off your cross." (c)

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: I dare_notice_

Weapons SHOULD NOT be a commodity

Well, why not - weapons can be a commodity, but in addition to their cost, they carry enormous political significance. As is well known...

Quote: Lord Palmerston, 19th century

.. there are no eternal allies and no permanent enemies - there are only eternal interests.

Probably we need to think ahead and learn lessons, not to step on the same rake... It is also worth finding out who shortly before approved the sale of repair kits to the Poles in quantities much larger than they needed.

Quote: I dare_notice_

You, uncles... "either put on your underwear... or take off your cross." (c)

[Alexander Makov]

I illustrated your calculations below in the comments-
Stepping into the same trap...That's putting it mildly...
Moreover, it is from such “rakes” that various columns of type n 5 arise there...
And... the state (read: the Army!) will have to "butt heads" with them in the end, because no Ministry of Internal Affairs, Russian Guard (with all due respect) will be able to cope with the invasion...

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Alexander Makov

Solzhenitsyn is not only a traitor...

As long as his 'legacy' is taught - there will be no good: a traitor, an informer by definition cannot be an example and his thoughts written down on paper must be erased from people's memory. You are right - this is just brainwashing, especially of the immature, to please other people's interests.
I agree with you about Poland: I lived there as a child, and then crossed the border by car for the first time early in the morning on January 1, 2007 - when they abolished control. Then I went there many times and saw how they developed the infrastructure - they approached the issue competently. But, the ears of the States loom here - why did Poland receive such preferences for the development of transport infrastructure ... But in general, well done, of course, although they are not friends of the Russian Federation and never were, but they gnaw Europe for their interests, although not without American ears. In general, it seems to me that Poland is arming itself with all its might to shut Europe's mouth when they rush to squeeze creams, as the Supreme Command suggested to them. In a sane mind, talking about a military action against the Russian Federation is stupid, the military understands that this is a one-way ticket; politicians are a different story ...
P.S. Did a former graduate of the Moscow Higher Military Command School persuade a former special forces soldier to join the 'toy regiment'?

[Vitaly.17]

Aircraft need consumables and spare parts. Engines also have an extremely limited resource (400 hours for old and 700 hours for new modifications). Therefore, if the Russian government did not directly or through third countries supply everything necessary, the MiG-29 would not have flown in enemy countries for a long time. Therefore, we should not blame the USSR for the problems that we create for ourselves and then heroically overcome them. This is what Winston Churchill said about the Bolsheviks, but mentality or traditions are passed down through generations.

[16112014nk]

Aircraft manufacturers in the USSR couldn’t even think of it

And that's true:

There is much in the world, friend Horatio, which our sages did not dream of

[barclay]

Aircraft manufacturers in the USSR could not even imagine that...
Aircraft manufacturers back then couldn't even think about many things that are happening today. Including the fact that the Union will cease to exist.
PS: and they made excellent airplanes that still do their job reliably.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: barclay

Aircraft manufacturers back then couldn't even imagine many things that are happening today.

that's exactly it... many Soviet people couldn't imagine that their grandchildren and great-grandchildren would shoot at each other with Kalashnikovs made in the same factory - only because they happened to live in different Soviet cities at the time of the collapse of the USSR... and the MiG-29 is nothing compared to that...

[Bayun]

You read something similar in the memoirs of the White Army: “We could not even imagine that...”

And what do we want? If Russia is ruled personally by God Himself, then the devil himself personally opposes Him... The people can only open their mouths, make their eyes wide and obey. Some to God, others to the devil. This is the root of the schism and civil wars in Rus'.

[English tarantas]

God Himself personally, and the devil himself personally opposes Him

Apparently, this worldview was what destroyed the White movement.
Stupidity and illiteracy.
There is no such "devil opposing God", there is only one side and one Lord, and the devil serves him in Hell. The rest is Satanism.

[North Caucasus]

And what about the White movement, to use modern language, foreign agents? They were financed by Russia's enemies!

[Bayun]

The Whites were smart. Their problem was that they tried to act on the level of WORLDVIEW. And Rus' demands - worldview.

Error does not "oppose" correctness, it denies it. Evil has no "nature". It is an error. Whether it is the level of the Gospel or the Russian Revolution.

[Michael]

These are exactly the aircraft that Poland inherited after the collapse of the USSR and the end of the Warsaw Pact.

Here it is - the communist legacy!
And if you remember how much was poured into the “black hole” of Africa (the Aswan Dam alone is worth something), then it becomes simply scary.

[North Caucasus]

Aha! We fed half the world! Stop feeding Africa! And what have we come to? Stop feeding pensioners and the sick! Let the sick pay, let the pensioners save! Is that normal?

[fuel oil]

The USSR invested and prepared for one scenario. Life and reality, alas, decided otherwise. Lives, blood, troubles, suffering of citizens of both the USSR and Eastern Europe, were ineptly squandered by the top of the USSR. This is betrayal, there is no and will be no forgiveness or justification for it. And in the Russian land there is no and should be no place for various "marked", Yakovlevs, Khrushchevs. Oblivion should be their lot.

[Huarabey]

But we can't forget these ghouls. We must remember, so as not to repeat something like this in the future.

[Tooks]

Alas, a place was found. And not just anywhere, but at Novodevichy.

[miss33]

These traitors must not be forgotten. We must know where they are buried so that we can spit on their graves.

[North Caucasus]

I fully support you brother!

[Romanenko]

To the author of the article

Aircraft manufacturers in the USSR could not even imagine that MiG-29s of the Polish Air Force would intercept Russian aircraft over the Baltic... Just as they could not imagine, in principle, that MiGs and Sukhois would oppose each other over what was then called the Ukrainian SSR.

And what is this about the Grasshopper-Sitter?
Let's then chew over the barrel artillery and the Varshavyanka submarine, tanks and, of course, the Kalashnikov.
Mikhail Timofeevich didn’t think or guess, he never expected such an ending.
Stop writing nonsense. Everyone knows perfectly well how all this ended up in Poland, and Poland in NATO, and start with Khrushchev-Gorbachev Yeltsin, etc.
Better yet, don't write nonsense.

[English tarantas]

start with Khrushchev-Gorbachev Yeltsin

It all started with a corn stick in the body of the Soviet state.
It was under him that our people began to support with all their might all kinds of evil spirits in the Middle East.
And today the warehouses of all sorts of ISIS are filled with Kalashnikov assault rifles, with which they wage their jihad against Russians, among other things.
First they armed us, and now we're clutching our heads.

[North Caucasus]

Now here's the question! How could Stalin not see the traitor Khrushchev? And where were the organs looking? How was Khrushchev able to create his own coalition? While Beria was making the atomic bomb, Khrushchev was creating the opposition! How could this happen?

[HAM]

our bond is even stronger, together we protect and will protect NATO airspace One question constantly arises: why do almost everyone who breaks through to the media, generals, politicians, constantly talk about “unity”, about “cohesion”, about “readiness”?
But are they really so "united" that they need to be constantly reminded of this? It seems that they say one thing and do another.

[HAM]

Something similar happened somewhere recently, didn't it?

[foxes]

In the USSR, they could hardly imagine a war between the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

It's all about ignorance of history... Why did the leaders of the USSR suddenly decide that Poland would always be loyal to Russia? If you look at the history of relations between Poland and Russia, it turns out to be just the opposite, Poland has been an enemy of Russia since time immemorial, and that means? That means there was no need to supply them with weapons.

[Bumblebee_3]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

It's all about ignorance of history.

The whole point is that History is a corrupt science! History is written by the victors. The exception is - the History of Russia, by decree, was written by German scientists

[Sergey Averchenkov]

That's right - everyone knows history from their own side. Yes, there were Millers and Buyers in Russia, but there were Karamzin and Tatishchev. So not everything is so bad in our homeland.

[Bumblebee_3]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

So not everything is so bad in our country.

In my opinion, history textbooks are bad. I won't go into detail. But the Battle of Midway was given more attention than the Battle of Stalingrad and Kursk!

[Sergey Averchenkov]

I don't know modern textbooks (I studied in the USSR). But if it's as you say, then you're right.

[Bumblebee_3]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

I don't know modern textbooks (I studied in the USSR). But if it's as you say, then you're right.

I also studied using USSR textbooks, my children, unfortunately, use modern ones. Are you not aware that SolZhenitsen was included in the curriculum? They should also introduce "Medium-Heavy Kolyma Tram" There are no words, there are expressions, and all of them are obscene!

[Sergey Averchenkov]

It is very sad, in my opinion Solzhenitsyn is a traitor to the motherland and a very bad writer who got into the laureates thanks to politics. But the current government benefits from his Christian-patriotic ideas, so be patient and tell your children about him yourself.

[Bumblebee_3]

Sergey Averchenkov (Sergey Averchenkov)
Dear Sergey, I tell them. But there is one BUT! If my son started answering my stories in class, he would never get a passing grade. He must answer "according to the textbook"! That's the whole story!

[Alexander Makov]

Well, I agree 1000%!
Solzhenitsyn is not only a traitor... He is one of those who hammered into the heads of the then "promising" youth ANTIPATHY (read - ideology!) HATRED towards everything that the GREAT SOVIET UNION created... On the crest of THAT policy he was elevated almost to the rank of holy great martyrs, although, in fact, the story with him is far from so clear-cut and, in my opinion (I am sure - not only mine!), as a "writer" - yes, he is SO-SO (that's putting it mildly!), and certainly does NOT STAND CLOSE to the recognized classics of Russian literature!...
And he caused SO MUCH harm that the drugged heads (and their descendants!) will have to deal with it for a long time until they understand the insignificance and pettiness of what was written by this, with your permission, SCRIPTER!

[North Caucasus]

And Midway was the turning point in WW2? And what did the USSR do in the battle against Japan? Why did the Union defeat Japan in a month? Did the US help?

[olboop]

Yeah, there was also no need to supply weapons to the GDR, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and single-handedly not only confront NATO, but also defend the aforementioned “allies”.

[olboop]

[quoteAnd that means there was no need to supply them with weapons.][/quote]
Yeah, there was also no need to supply weapons to the GDR, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and single-handedly not only confront NATO, but also defend the aforementioned “allies”.

[storm]

Very correct position!!!
After the Great Patriotic War, all these states had to pay half of their budget to the USSR for about fifty years as reparations and funds for the maintenance of Soviet troops.
The most they should have been allowed to do was to form a territorial militia...

[Totor5]

What are you saying, we are not like that - we also gave the Poles the Baltic Sea coast so that they would have access to the sea. Just like our brothers the Balts. Instead of making all this the Kaliningrad Region.
The Union was international, so the interests of Russians were never in first place there.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

And how do the US act in such a situation? Can Japan say even half a word against them? No. Because there are powerful US military bases in Japan. The same with Germany and others like that. By the way, do you remember the scandal with the US serviceman who raped someone in Japan? And how did it end? Nothing. He was sent to the US.

[Tima62]

And how did the USSR act in such a situation? Could Germany or Poland say even half a word against it? No. Because there were powerful Soviet military bases in Germany and Poland. And how did it end? Wasn't it Russia itself that closed the bases, leaving the equipment behind?
Why is Yaroslavna crying?

[Sergey Averchenkov]

These questions are for the spotted one, and he is simply a traitor to his country. He even died in Germany, doesn't that mean anything to you?

[Totor5]

Don't you remember 1968? And then the wisest ones built a tank factory there and handed over licenses for the T72.

[North Caucasus]

By the way, do you remember the scandal with the US serviceman who raped someone in Japan? And how did it end? Nothing. He was sent to the US.

What's surprising? The winner is right! Russia lost the Cold War. And! And now it's wrong everywhere! Moral of the story. No need to bend over!

[Taurus1983]

Russia did not lose the Cold War. The Soviet Union was destroyed by a drunk named Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin.

[North Caucasus]

Misha started the collapse. And Borya continued. And foreign friends only smiled, praised and clapped on the shoulder! Come on Gorby! You're great! But I don't see anything like that from the separatist outskirts. For some reason Kyiv doesn't give back the territories it took from Russia. And Armenia. And Azerbaijan. Well, it's true Pashinyan gave part of the territory to his neighbors. But not to Russia!

[North Caucasus]

Pardon me! There was a military bloc then! We supplied weapons to our allies! Who are Russia's allies today? The results of the SVO will show the leader in terms of weapons quality! If Russia loses, then weapons exports from Russia will fall to zero due to negativity and sanctions!

[Artyom Savin]

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

It's all about ignorance of history... Why did the leaders of the USSR suddenly decide that Poland would always be loyal to Russia? If you look at the history of relations between Poland and Russia, it turns out to be just the opposite, Poland has been an enemy of Russia since time immemorial, and that means? That means there was no need to supply them with weapons.

The English and the French have been fighting for almost 10 years since the 700th century A.D., but since 1815 they have been inseparable, with joint actions in Spain in 1823, through Crimea and China, 2 world wars, Suez and further to Afghanistan and Libya, they have been acting together everywhere. With another "eternal" enemy, they have been in the same state for 400 years. The past does not determine the future.

[Sergey Averchenkov]

This is not a conversation about the past and the future, but about the mentality of nations. If we have called Poles "Psheks" since ancient times, then it has remained so. If the hohols called us "Muscovites", then they still call us that. How can I explain it to you... you can change the mentality of one person by simply breaking or killing him, but it is almost impossible to change the mentality of a community of people. And I am sure that the English and the French often call each other offensive names off camera. They just need a reason, some small conflict, for this hostility to come to the surface. And I assure you they will cut each other with pleasure.

[Artyom Savin]

This is not a conversation about the past and the future, but about the mentality of nations. If we have called Poles "Psheks" since ancient times, then it has remained so. If the hohols called us "Muscovites", then they still call us that. How can I explain it to you... you can change the mentality of one person by simply breaking or killing him, but it is almost impossible to change the mentality of a community of people. And I am sure that the English and the French often call each other offensive names off camera. They just need a reason, some small conflict, for this hostility to come to the surface. And I assure you they will cut each other with pleasure.

Wow, I was wondering why Ukraine is rushing to join the EU and badmouthing Russian citizens and their leader, it turns out it's the mentality. I blamed other factors more. Without sarcasm - I don't want to change anyone's mind, I personally am not particularly inclined to discuss any metaphysics and fantasies like national spirit, mentality, etc. But there is a question, all people are mortal and one day the irreplaceable president of Belarus will give up his soul to God. There is an opinion that it can swing the country to the West. If this happens (which I am personally sure of), will the RuNet discuss the mentality of Belarusians, I'm just curious. Well, we'll live and see

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Will Belarus rock? Only if it is western. People (Belarusians, Ukrainians, Russians... even Eskimos) who have lived in the West for a long time will eventually mix and end up with a half-Pole or a half-Belarusian. And which side this Belarusian-Pole (Pole-Belarusian) will take in the next conflict is impossible to predict, in theory it would be sensible to change the population in such territories, but it is too complicated and time-consuming. You don't have to go far for examples, everything is visible in the Great Patriotic War. Remember how Western Ukraine bowed to the Germans and how many of them were then dug out of their caches... What can I say - reread Taras Bulba.

[North Caucasus]

But this did not stop the French from creating concentration camps for Germans before WW2. Friends?

[Artyom Savin]

But this did not stop the French from creating concentration camps for Germans before WW2. Friends?

What, enemies? It seems there have been no contradictions between Germany and the French Republic for 80 years

[Alexander Makov]

But here I will argue... WITHOUT THE PAST THERE IS NO FUTURE... Only to REASONABLY manage the achievements of the PAST.... This is ANOTHER science...
China SUCKS...
So, maybe we shouldn't reinvent the wheel? Maybe we should turn to the not-so-distant PAST (where is FAR! Not everything was bad!)? A philosophical question... But... Somehow it suddenly arises spontaneously, looking at the PRESENT, don't you think?

[Artyom Savin]

But here I will argue... WITHOUT THE PAST THERE IS NO FUTURE... Only to REASONABLY manage the achievements of the PAST.... This is ANOTHER science...
China SUCKS...
So, maybe we shouldn't reinvent the wheel? Maybe we should turn to the not-so-distant PAST (where is FAR! Not everything was bad!)? A philosophical question... But... Somehow it suddenly arises spontaneously, looking at the PRESENT, don't you think?

It's as if I'm suggesting that we live one day at a time, without memory of the past and without plans for the future. There were prerequisites for everything that's happening now, nothing suddenly appears out of nowhere, that's true. I don't believe in kismet, fate and destiny, there is no predetermination in anything. You can turn to the past as much as you like, I don't see anything bad in it, but you can't live in it, for me it's self-evident. People still live in the present, so it's a little annoying when big shots start turning to the origins for no apparent reason, to the extent of their rather shallow knowledge of history. For ordinary people this is still forgivable, but when the authorities start giving various signals, I get a vague feeling of unease. I'd prefer that the guys do more meaningful work.

[Evgen Zharov]

Poland is a sort of "second world" country, a pauper in a word, that's why they didn't want to give the Svidomites their MIGs, even though they were pretty worn out. In this NATO clown show, they wore out their engine life even more - and the logs "showed off" and now this junk can be sold to the forelocked ones.

[Alexander Makov]

I absolutely don't want to sing the praises of Poles, but....
Last week I was returning (and even going there) with my wife from the Czech Republic to our home in the Baltics (we were in a sanatorium) in our car, we drove almost through the whole of Poland... And here's what happened...
It was a long way to go, we often stopped here and there, we drove around Polish collective farms, went into shops, and into cafes to eat...
I am a long-distance truck driver myself with a LOT of experience, I have been... Where haven't I been... I just wanted to SHOW it to my wife... And... what did my wife see? She is still in shock - from the new roads (ALL OVER POLAND!!!) to the price tags in stores, cafes, etc... If you haven't been there, I recommend going and JUST having a look...
About roads, autobahns (Germany can nervously smoke!), about HOW the "poor" people live there and in WHAT kind of houses, WHAT kind of cars they drive... Yes, a lot of things... I have SEEN this more than once or a hundred times, but... For the sake of objectivity, I state - oh, how far they are from "decay"!
You can downvote, but these are facts from a week ago...Something like that...

[North Caucasus]

I don't know how Poland is rotting there. But! On the roads of the fourth economy in the world - Russia, I even manage to scrape the road in a Niva! Are the roads in Poland even worse? And to the question of Russian Civilization. Niva has been produced for almost half a century! And! Clumsiness is probably a diagnosis! They never learned how to paint! They don't know how to make even gaps! They are not able to make two holes at the same distance! What are we proud of? Niva's mince? Power steering and ABS! Are we ahead of the rest of the world? Niva is not familiar with anticorrosive agents.

[Alexander Makov]

That's what I'm ABOUT! It's too early to write off Gayrope economically... oh, too early!

[VyacheSeymour]

Poland is a sort of "second world" country, a pauper state in a word...

Have you tried looking into the minimum wage in Poland?...
I think you will find it interesting...1100 euro with 200 euro across Russia
In a word, poor people...

[Totor5]

And what is the average salary?
What is the minimum pension in Poland?

[VyacheSeymour]

And what is the average salary?
What is the minimum pension in Poland?

And what is the GDP per capita?
And what about PPS per capita?
And what about oil production in tons per capita?
What about gas?
And what about the extraction of gold, diamonds, timber and all the other things that require only a shovel and a dump truck to sell abroad?
And how could Russia, with all its wealth, reach such heights (GDP, PPP two times lower) in comparison with the Polish "paupers" who have none of this?

[Totor5]

Did you deliberately pretend not to notice my simple questions?

[VyacheSeymour]

Did you deliberately pretend not to notice my simple questions?

I deliberately avoided receiving new and even simpler questions - it is not my plan to replace the search line for you... you yourself, somehow yourself.

[Totor5]

I asked for your opinion, but it seems you don't have your own opinion.

[VyacheSeymour]

I asked for your opinion, but it seems you don't have your own opinion.

If I gave you official Polish statistics on your:

And what is the average salary?
What is the minimum pension in Poland?

then you would know that I have my own opinion???
Didn't I express my opinion about Poland's "poverty" earlier? Maybe they are "poverty" but, again, it depends on who you compare them to.
But you just give off a copy-paste of pompous officialdom broadcast from every iron...

[Totor5]

Another troll on the site. Well, it's clear from the abundance of smiles and the stream of consciousness.

[VyacheSeymour]

Another troll on the site. Well, it's clear from the abundance of smiles and the stream of consciousness.

A plus from me to you (I can’t take it anymore).
Keep up the good work, and most importantly, don't fall out of line with the "party line", otherwise you'll get a few minuses and you won't see your general's epaulettes.

[North Caucasus]

Have you looked into the minimum wage and pension in Russia? What is our subsistence minimum, or rather physiological minimum? How much does the minimum wage differ from it? And? And how much is our housing and utilities? Well, it comes out to half of the minimum wage. And what did Putin say? Housing and utilities should not exceed 20% of income. And? If we take housing and utilities 10 thousand. How much should the minimum wage or pension be? At least 50 thousand. And if we take the subsistence minimum and the minimum wage? How many dependents can be supported on the minimum wage? What is there about increasing the birth rate? At least two children? The subsistence minimum for four, plus income tax. How much is that? At least a hundred! What is our minimum wage today?

[VyacheSeymour]

Have you looked into the minimum wage and pension in Russia? What is our subsistence minimum, or rather physiological minimum? How much does the minimum wage differ from it? And? And how much is our housing and utilities? Well, it comes out to half of the minimum wage. And what did Putin say? Housing and utilities should not exceed 20% of income. And? If we take housing and utilities 10 thousand. How much should the minimum wage or pension be? At least 50 thousand. And if we take the subsistence minimum and the minimum wage? How many dependents can be supported on the minimum wage? What is there about increasing the birth rate? At least two children? The subsistence minimum for four, plus income tax. How much is that? At least a hundred! What is our minimum wage today?

To be honest, I didn't understand the essence of the question...

[North Caucasus]

It's elementary, my dear Watson! Housing and communal services are 20% of income. Housing and communal services are somewhere between plus and minus 8-12 thousand. What should the income be? Well, let's take a single pensioner. 20% of income. 50 thousand. Let's take the subsistence minimum per person. Husband, wife, two children. Let's take a modest 20 thousand per person, plus income tax. It comes out to a hundred. Or is 22 thousand normal? And 33 is great? What was it Putin said! 75% of our population has an income of one and a half minimum wages! This is the best indicator in the world and we are the richest country in the world! Well, well!

[VyacheSeymour]

This is elementary Watson!

From your previous comment:

Have you ever looked into the minimum wage and pension in Russia?

And this is from one of my comments:

Have you tried looking into the minimum wage in Poland?...
I think you will find it interesting...1100 euros at 200 euros across Russia

That’s why I don’t understand the essence of your questions to me.

[Totor5]

Citizens whose housing and utilities expenses exceed 22% of the total family income have the right to receive subsidies. This was stated by Alexander Yakubovsky, a member of the State Duma Committee on Construction and Housing and Utilities. First of all, this concerns privileged categories of citizens: pensioners, low-income and large families, disabled people, as well as families of SVO participants.

The threshold is no more than 22% of the family income. This primarily concerns pensioners, low-income families, as well as large families, disabled people and families of participants in a special military operation, the deputy specified.

“Both homeowners and tenants under social tenancy agreements can be recipients,” Yakubovsky explained.

[Totor5]

The European Union has been pouring 10-15 billion in subsidies into it every year over the course of all these years.

[solovjoff]

What a shame...they sold it so cheaply and destroyed the Empire...

[Alexander Makov]

The Russian Federation will be "upset" for a long time in bewilderment - HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?
By the way, the article: with a long-term aim and an UNEQUIVOCAL hint - guys, think about WHOM, HOW MUCH and WHAT weapons you are selling NOW (including military technologies!)... Yes, of course - the arms market has not been cancelled, but... As history shows - this is a double-edged sword!...

[Yellow bubble]

It's strange, because all those who were in power in 1991 are in power, all communists of the USSR, and Volodya was appointed by the one who destroyed the USSR!!! There are no former ones, they are just now rich and successful!!! Unlike the people who now tolerate their mistakes!!! It's good that Mig-29 St. Petersburg hasn't been bombed yet, otherwise there's nothing to counter!!!

[Totor5]

It's a big problem that they didn't think. They didn't think when they gave weapons and technologies, built weapons factories to those with whom they fought for a thousand years and to those who killed hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers in the death camps of the 1920s.
Of course, the communists will downvote - that's the way it is here, because no one will look at it sensibly. The USSR has long been a religion for them with its icons, and God, even if communist, is infallible and always right. I am for truth, objectivity and a sensible view of things unclouded by dogmas. And I wish everyone to find the strength in themselves for an objective view and to see not only the pros, but also the cons of this period.

[Alexander Makov]

I absolutely agree with you, dear Totor 5! There are still too many CONTRADICTIONS, piled up back in the USSR, which, alas, we have to clear up NOW...
The most important question (and I voiced it ABOVE) - guys in the Kremlin, THINK WELL, so as not to screw up
ALREADY NOW!

[North Caucasus]

Aha! Communists are infallible! And the bourgeois are saints? What's going on now? The saintly bourgeois have ruined industry, health care, education!?

[Totor5]

Where did I talk about the holiness of the bourgeoisie?
There is no need to go to extremes and make an infallible idol. Everything is like in China - 70% good and 30% bad - a normal Chinese approach. Although I prefer 50/50.

[North Caucasus]

And who is the idol today? Berezovsky? Abramovich? Is there an idol or not? What religion is today? Today money is God! Banks are churches! Bankers are preachers!

[Alexander Makov]

Well, my dear... Why only two colors: white and black? If we are talking about the Soviets (and I lived half my life under them, and I don't regret it!), then... let's be objective at least - Lenin announced the NEP in the last year of his life... Is this because life is good? No. It's just that in the "proletarian brain" a concept like "we need to adopt SOMETHING from the bourgeoisie" surfaced...
Then the thirties... Stalin was the first to give the order for industrialization: "Attract FOREIGN specialists (read: bourgeois!) to restore industry"... And comrade Ordzhonikidze (through diplomats) achieved the arrival in our broken and hungry country of more than 500 American specialists, who helped build automobile factories, power plants, metallurgical enterprises, and raise the mining industry... Yes, a lot of things...
But the fact that national ideas were PERVERTED (thanks to the khokhol Khrushchev, and then to Brezhnev in recent years) turned into the betrayal of 1991...
This is the background with all the consequences...

[North Caucasus]

The NEP very quickly showed its inefficiency. Although a class of rich people appeared. It was an analogue of our 90s. Small business is not able to raise the economy at all. Do we have many private oil rigs or car factories? Private villages could not feed the country either. Low productivity. Therefore, the NEP was curtailed and a course was taken towards collectivization and industrialization. The States built factories in our country. True, they were in depression at that time and they were dying of hunger. That is why they had to help the Union. True, they understood perfectly well that by helping the Union they were helping a competitor. And they could not allow this. Purely by chance, hungry Europe had its own leaders. And one of them became the leader of the EU of that time. The US business plan was successfully implemented, the States made a lot of money on it and acquired considerable weight.

[Alexander Makov]

P.S.
Take my word for it - EVERYONE'S salary there! Very, very NORMAL (I judge this based on almost DAILY communication with Poles!), we work next to them in Scandinavia, for example, and I can say for sure (about truck drivers, by the way) - the standard is HIGHER than in Germany... I get the SAME, and so do they! And... the standard of living in the same Poles... I don't even want to compare it with the Russian Federation, which, in my deepest conviction, is COMPLETELY OUT OF THE REGION, considering how much the USSR pumped into the Poles after the War...

[Totor5]

I can talk for a long time about economics and what's what, because I studied all this at the University. But it is unlikely that this will be interesting to anyone - people need simple slogans, Lenin spoke about this.

I will only say that Poland is part of the European Union - part of the dollar system of the Western world. The euro is tied to the dollar and is the world reserve currency, which allows many holes to be closed with a stupid printing press, dumping inflation on the countries of the Third World. Well, and the fact that Poland has been receiving subsidies from the European Union all these years, approximately 3 billion a year, should not be forgotten, as should not be forgotten about the EU quotas, transit, etc.

The public debt in Poland averaged PLN 742886,82 million from 1998 to 2025, reaching a historical maximum of PLN 1772500,40 million in May 2025 (around $470 billion).

Regarding pensions, in Poland it was like this 5 years ago

State Social Insurance Fund (Zakład Ubezpieczeń Społecznych). It pays the minimum benefit and also forms payments to people who reached retirement age before the pension reform of 1999-2000.

Accumulative part. This part of the deductions comes from working people (from salary) to the so-called open pension funds - commercial structures, licensed by the state, engaged in increasing invested funds. In Poland, this is often done by banks and other financial institutions. Such a fund is determined by the person independently.
When working in Poland, mandatory payments to the future pension fund amount to 19,5% of the total earnings. Of these, 12% is contributed to the State Fund, and 7,5% to the open fund.

To receive the minimum pension, women need 20 years of work experience and men 25 years. As of March 2017, the minimum wage (upon reaching the required age and having the minimum required work experience) was 1000 zlotys gross, i.e. 853 zlotys net = 228 dollars.

I'm not saying that Poland is G. But it doesn't really look like Paradise either. Personally, I won't go anywhere from Russia, despite the fact that I have relatives from Vienna, Austria, who have been living there for at least 200 years, if not more.

[Alexander Makov]

No, dear sir, I agree with your calculations... I just remember the brilliant M. Zadornov:
When I arrived in Germany, I still didn’t understand: WHO WON THAT WAR?
I will tell you even more - the Poles received over 160 billion EUR for the construction of their own communications... Not a single country in the European Union RECEIVED! such subsidies! In addition, Poland PRESERVED its agriculture, leaving its export practically untouched, despite the notorious "quotas" - this affected the Poles only to a small extent...
And in general, Poland is a self-sufficient country at all times, their agriculture is on par with industry - and this is the result of a fairly competent policy both by the Cabin and on the foreign policy contour, and they are VERY TIMELY! They fell under the "striped" (unlike other "allies"), therefore, the lobby in relation to the Poles on the part of the States...
Poland is by no means a small country, both in terms of population and territory, and the development of the Poles is NOT comparable to other EU member states (except perhaps Estonia, which is also a leader there, but that has long been FINNISH HISTORY)...

[Totor5]

Well, I wrote that they got quotas, but what if they hadn't? What if they hadn't received subsidies? For example, the Greeks were forced to cut up their shipbuilding and stop making olive oil. As for the self-sufficiency of the Poles - 70% of their economy is the service sector and they have a gigantic debt.
That is why everyone in the West is so afraid of BRICS and the new reserve currency. Well, in the meantime, Europe is happily milking the 3rd world countries like Africa, with the help of the same Colonial Pact, according to which the Central Banks of African countries and all their reserves are stored in Europe, and resources are bought at a price of less than 10% of the market price. And often for free... as they officially say - to pay off the debts of the colonial period. After all, the whites have greatly benefited their slaves with civilization.

The Baltics are essentially supported by the EU, 1/3 of their budget is EU subsidies. But there are not many of them - so it's normal, although young people are flocking and pensions are meager.

As for who defeated whom - we didn't make much progress in Germany, we only occupied the East. At the same time, Poland and the Baltics and Germany were kindly given access to the sea, instead of making all of this the Kaliningrad Region. How would they all live now without access to the sea? About the same as we are now without direct access to Kaliningrad, only even worse.

Mainland Germany (like all of Western Europe) did not suffer from the war at all, and after the war received increased infusions of money from the States. The same IRIST air defense system is produced at the same plant where concentration camp prisoners worked and belongs to the same Nazi family. Plants in France and Italy generally remained intact. It's about the same as now - we will get a destroyed East, and they will get a whole West.

So where exactly they lost is a question. But the United States definitely won in everything, because after this war it was they who began to rule the world with the help of the dollar.

[Alexander Makov]

That's the point: the Poles received the MAXIMUM possible quotas (like no other EU country), so agriculture is the basis of the economy there (+ transit, of course!)...
I have already written (and more than once!) about the strategic mistake (or rather miscalculation) made by Stalin - having a 5-million strong mobilized Army at the end of the war, he TRUSTED the "allies" instead of banging his fist/boot on the table at the Yalta conference and declaring: World Revolution - to the end!
Zhukov had already offered Koba a landing through the Bering Strait back in 45... He had enough strength then... Koba refused to believe in the "sanctity and inviolability" of treaties...
And then there was Churchill's Fulton speech... I won't retell it - I see: you are a literate person...

[Totor5]

I don't think there was the strength to loudly declare anything in 1945 - after all, the army was transferred from Europe to the East against the 1 million strong Japanese army. And Churchill was already preparing a plan for an attack by a united Euro-Nazi-American group. And if Japan had joined in? Again, nuclear bombs.

In general, according to the agreement, we were supposed to divide Japan like Berlin, we were supposed to get Greece and a base in Italy. But we were simply screwed and Stalin took what he could.
But these are all distant countries and this can be understood, but I cannot understand that Poland and the Baltic States received access to the sea, and we took the entire coast of Germany, including Rügen (from which we left when withdrawing troops in the 90s), where a military base was located in Hitler's sanatorium and where Slavic Arkona was once located, which many consider to be the place where Rus appeared as a name.

[123_123]

Nobody in the USSR could have imagined that a drunk Boris Yeltsin would conduct an orchestra during the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Germany. Our guys were right in Berlin and half of Berlin were there for a long time, but they all blew it.

[North Caucasus]

Take it further! Withdrawal of troops from the DRA! Even then, smart people understood! Misha is giving up the country! Then even ordinary workers, ordinary! Not politicians! Ordinary workers, they said, Misha is a Judas! He will sell out the country!

[Alexander Makov]

No, dear sir, they didn't....crow, they...SOLD! Call a spade a spade! Something else is upsetting...
Once upon a time, Lermontov wrote a brilliant 16 lines to his poem “The Death of a Poet”;

...But there is also God's Judgment, the viceroys of debauchery...
And here: according to the proverb-
God is God, but don't be bad yourself!
And, if I may say so: WHO ASKED
for the collapse of the Warsaw Pact with Marked One?
Who asked Boris about 1991? (No...even the Yeltsin Center was made in Yekaterinburg)...
And...these "citizens" died as if nothing had happened...Not only that, but the First Persons of the State are bringing WREATHS OF FLOWERS to their graves...
Questions... Not that there are a lot of them...
The rest of my life is CONTINUOUS QUESTIONS, and...there is NO END to them...

[Vlad Gor]

Once again, liberal democrats are throwing mud at the Soviet Union. The MiG-29 was given to Poland 30 years ago, and the new capitalist government of the Russian Federation has been servicing them all these years. Good quality MiG-29 aircraft, but without technical support from the Russian Federation, they would have been scrapped long ago. Whose pocket did the money for supporting the MiG-29 go to? This is the main thing in selling weapons.

[Alexander Makov]

Dear Sir, there is a practice of selling military equipment all over the world: ANY! contract implies maintenance, spare parts support, etc...
The Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR and fulfilled its obligations under CONTRACTS...And what does capitalism have to do with it? I repeat: a strategic mistake was made by THOSE who absolutely short-sightedly released the LATEST military equipment under contracts without requiring GUARANTEES prohibiting resale, transfer to third countries, etc....
Look at the "striped ones" - I wish someone would try to transfer, sell, exchange ANY equipment without their consent!
But our "mind-boggling" desire to HELP fraternal (?!) nations is what it results in...
And there is no dirt on the USSR here - I myself swore an oath to THIS country and fought for it in Afghanistan (81-83), lived until the collapse (and live now!) in... one of the Baltic countries, because I was born and raised there, being RUSSIAN...
Later, after the collapse, they tried to recruit me, as a former special forces soldier, into "their" army ("the toy regiment"!), because I am a citizen of this country... I FLATLY refused...
But now...
Now I feel ashamed for the country, for MY historical homeland...

[Shmyak]

What do you mean "couldn't imagine that MiGs and Sukhois would oppose each other"? But the Bolsheviks always had such a policy. In the USSR before the Great Patriotic War, Russian officers were shot en masse, and the Germans trained at military training grounds. Or the war between Libya and Egypt. There, even the planes had the same color scheme and the pilots contacted each other to find out whether they were flying friend or foe. And the war between Iraq and Iran? Officially, the USSR helped Iraq with weapons, but did not help Iran. But the USSR helped Syria with weapons, and Syria supplied weapons to Iran. Or the war between Somalia and Ethiopia. And what did the Germans shoot from during the Great Patriotic War? Before the war, warehouses with artillery and shells were set up at the border of the USSR in a businesslike manner. There are many examples of when the USSR armed its enemies. For example, the RSFSR fought together with Turkey against Armenia. The RSFSR and Turkey won, so Turkey "bit off" a piece of Armenia a piece of territory...

[Shmyak]

Totor5
0
Today, 14: 54
New
It's a big problem that they didn't think. They didn't think when they gave weapons and technologies, built weapons factories to those with whom they fought for a thousand years and to those who killed hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers in the death camps of the 1920s.

Yes, they all thought. Didn't Lenin think? He did! Only he didn't think about what you think, he thought about it.
Lenin and Józef Pilsudski were friends. Their older brothers Aleksandr Ulyanov and Bronisław Pilsudski were also friends and were both in the homicide department of the Jewish terrorist organization Narodnaya Volya. Aleksandr Ulyanov headed the homicide department after the execution of the Jewish woman Sofia Perovskaya (Sobolevskaya). Aleksandr Ulyanov and Bronisław Pilsudski were jailed together for the same criminal case. Lenin and Józef Pilsudski were Masons and Lenin gave his friend Poland. And after the Great Patriotic War, the Masons of the USSR gave the Freemason De Gaulle France. So, the Freemason De Gaulle and the Freemason Tukhachevsky were friends and lived in the same room when they studied at the main university of the Jesuit Freemasons in Ingolstadt. The teachers of this university founded the Masonic order of the Illuminati.
On the main Masonic holiday, July 22, 1920, Masonic friends De Gaulle and Tukhachevsky carried out the Warsaw meat grinder, in which they ground up 60 thousand Russian soldiers. Tukhachevsky led the Bolshevik army, and De Gaulle led the Polish army from Pilsudski's headquarters.

[Andrey A]

Sofia Perovskaya was the daughter of Perovsky, the governor of St. Petersburg, an actual state councilor, the great-granddaughter of Count A. Razumovsky, and she was not Jewish. And Narodnaya Volya was certainly not a Jewish terrorist organization. Lenin was not a Freemason, nor were J. Pilsudski, M. Tukhachevsky, or Ch. de Gaulle. And so, in 1920, the Red Army drove the White Poles out of Kyiv and almost all of Right-Bank Ukraine, and in Belarus we drove the White Poles out of Minsk. But Wrangel's Whites actively collaborated with the White Poles in Crimea, which is a fact.

[Shmyak]

Sofia Perovskaya was indeed the daughter of the Governor of St. Petersburg Lev Nikolaevich Perovsky and she organized the murder of Emperor Alexander II. Her father had previously tried to kill Alexander II. He sent a hired killer, Karakozov. But the killer's weapon was knocked out of his hands by passers-by. Since there was no direct evidence against LN Perovsky, he was simply fired from his post as Governor after this incident. Sofia Perovskaya was not the great-granddaughter of AK Razumovsky. The Perovskys wanted to receive the surname Razumovsky and filed a petition. A specially created commission for this case studied this issue and found no evidence of the relationship of the Perovskys with A.K. The petition was denied. Here is her Jewish great-grandmother, Maria Mikhailovna Sobolevskaya.
[media=https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bogachkova1957/84608417/1600331/1600331_original.jpg]
There is much evidence that the Perovskys were Masons. For example, during Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812, there was a Masonic meeting in the house where the Perovskys (Sobolevskys) lived. This is the Razumovsky estate on Gorokhovoye Pole. The Freemason Murat Joachim settled in this house and brought the stolen treasures from all over Moscow to the basements of this house. After the French left Moscow, Murat left the gold to the Sobolevskys (Perovskys). The Jews made the revolution with this gold. Lenin and his brother Alexander worked for the Perovskys. Even Lenin's great-grandfather Dmitry Ivanovich Bloch (Blank) worked for the Perovskys. With this money, the Freemasons bought positions and climbed to the top of the Russian aristocracy. With this money, the Freemason Lev Alekseevich Perovsky became the Minister of Internal Affairs. With this money he organized the Decembrist uprising, killed A.S. Pushkin and put F.M. Dostoevsky behind bars....

[Shmyak]

Here in this historical study, historian Valentin Domil cites facts about the connection between the Minister of Internal Affairs Lev Alekseevich Perovsky and Lenin's great-grandfather Dmitry Ivanovich Blokh (Blank)
https://berkovich-zametki.com/Nomer47/Domil1.htm
True, Valentin Domal draws the wrong conclusions. Domal did not understand the essence of the events that took place then. He did not connect the disparate facts into a single, understandable picture. In fact, Lenin's great-grandfather did not act on his own initiative when he proposed draft laws that would worsen the lives of Jews. He did so on the orders of the Jew L. A. Perovsky. Lev Perovsky passed these drafts on to the Emperor, who sent them to the Senate for consideration. The Senate studied these drafts and rejected them. And the Jewish press around the world howled about this. That the Russian Government wanted to pass anti-Semitic decrees. Perovsky needed such a fuss to embitter Jews against the Russian Empire. So that more Jews would join terrorist organizations such as "Narodnaya Volya." Here is the freemason Vladimir Dal, whom the Jewish Bolsheviks portray as a master of Russian literature, who wrote a book of libels against the Jews. Investigation into the murder of Christian infants by Jews and the consumption of their blood.
He also wrote this libelous book on the orders of Lev Perovsky and for the same reason. Dahl worked as a personal secretary for the Perovsky Masons for a very long time.

[Andrey A]

Well, where in Valentin Domil's constructions is there even a mention of Lev Perovsky? - Not a word. And why? - Because in V. Domil's "sources" (and they are dubious anyway), there is not a word about it. So these are fairy tales. Groundless fairy tales.

The Perovsky family name was given to the illegitimate children ("pupils") of Count A.K. Razumovsky and the daughter of his groom Maria Mikhailovna Sobolevskaya (Razumovsky and Sobolevskaya lived in a de facto marriage for more than 35 years). According to some sources, the family name was chosen in honor of the Razumovskys' estate Perovo near Moscow, according to others - by the name of Sobolevskaya's late husband, a Polish nobleman (not documented). In 1796, they were entered into the book of nobility, but in 1804-1807, after this was contested, Razumovsky again sought nobility for them. The three Perovskys were subsequently granted the title of count.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Перовские
So the Perovskys, although illegitimate, are indeed the descendants of A.K. Razumovsky, which A.K. Razumovsky did not deny and was concerned for his children. And of course, Murat is not a Mason. There is no such data in his biography in Wiki.

[Shmyak]

If AK had really "bothered", then there would have been no obstacles to giving his surname to his children. The Perovskys bothered after Razumovsky's death. And no external resemblance was found between the Razumovskys and the Perovskys. And no documents were found in which AK Razumovsky recognized them as his children. Or asked to recognize them, as you say. AK Razumovsky was a weak-willed person like Gorbachev. He could not refuse a person. Such was his psychological nature. He could not make any decision if he had even the slightest doubt. Such people are very rare, but they are born. This is a transitional type between right-handed and left-handed people. Such people can be good executors of other people's orders, but they are useless as leaders. They always have a "leader" just as Gorbachev was led by his wife, or whoever happened to be near them. His father knew this and married AK Razumovsky to a powerful woman, Varvara Petrovna Sheremetyeva. She was one of the five richest women of that time. But AK Razumovsky fell under the influence of the Perovsky Masons. And Razumovsky's wife was taken away and hidden in a remote village. The Masons hid AK Razumovsky's sons, Peter and Kirill, one on Solovki, and the other in the Shlisselburg and Peter and Paul Fortresses. They were subjected to sophisticated torture and went crazy. Then they were taken to Novorossiya. The Odessa Governor, Duke Richelieu, was a Freemason and he had a personal prison somewhere in Novorossiya. And in Odessa, Duke Richelieu opened a Masonic Jesuit Lyceum. A kind of forge of Masonic personnel. For example, the father of the well-known Kolchak studied in this Lyceum.
Murat Joachim and Duke Richelieu worked for the mason Talleyrand Perigord. And he worked for the Rothschilds. Look into their biographies in more detail and you will find many connections with Talleyrand from early youth.

[Andrey A]

It was not so easy for a nobleman to give his surname: Prince Trubetskoy could not give his surname to his child, as a result, Betskoy appeared, initially, not a nobleman at all. It was only later, under the patronage of "daddy", that he earned hereditary nobility. A.K. Razumovsky interceded for his children, he was not so weak-willed (he was a professional diplomat, and a good diplomat, an ambassador, so you can't reproach him for lack of will) and he would not have interceded for strangers. Then, I posted an article on Wikipedia: no one doubts that the Perovskys are descendants of A.K. Razumovsky. Yes, they were considered his "pupils", but everyone understood everything. Duke Richelieu and Talleyrand were not Masons, which is natural, Masons are liberals, and Richelieu and Talleyrand are royalists, Talleyrand is, in general, a bishop. And the Rothschilds rose later.

[Shmyak]

The site I provided either doesn't open at all, or the article has been erased. Sorry, I didn't look.

[Ponimatel]

Quote: North Caucasus

Aha! We fed half the world! Stop feeding Africa! And what have we come to? Stop feeding pensioners and the sick! Let the sick pay, let the pensioners save! Is that normal?

An unjustified generalization. Feeding strangers is not always useful. But feeding your own is a must.

[Ponimatel]

Quote: Bumblebee_3

Quote: Sergey Averchenkov

So not everything is so bad in our country.

In my opinion, history textbooks are bad. I won't go into detail. But the Battle of Midway was given more attention than the Battle of Stalingrad and Kursk!

History textbooks have nothing to do with History, they are pure propaganda. And if it is run by our own people, then that is right. But if it is run by strangers, then f*ck.