Military Review

"Our ancestors are Scythians ..."

98
"Our ancestors are Scythians ..."There was a paradoxical situation - despite the fact that historical the processes on the Russian Plain were much more organic than the historical processes in Western Europe, our history begins as if from scratch.


"Our ancestors Scythians were brave riders and fine connoisseurs of art." Nothing bothers you in this phrase? I, frankly, no. Although it was built on the pattern of an anecdote phrase from a French textbook, according to which African children in the colonies allegedly taught history: “Our ancestors of the Gauls were tall, blond and blue-eyed”.

Mark Ferro in his remarkable book “How a story is told to children in different countries of the world” (M., 1992, p. 37) strongly refuted this myth, referring to the study of Denise Bush - in colonial Africa of the era to which the anecdote relates to school only the white descendants of the Gauls walked, and French historical thought did not even include the Celtic heritage in its horizon. It began with Clovis and the Soissons bowl.

The expansion of French history into Celtic Gaul began later, but was so thorough that it gave rise to this anecdote — after all, it’s obvious that everything started with the Gauls, that Obelix is ​​the direct ancestor of Gerard Depardieu. And now, Fernand Braudel in his latest study "What is France" devotes a third of the second book to the Gallic period and the deep historical structures left by the Celts. At least yesterday (what happened to the French identity today - I don’t know, no matter how new textbooks “Our Ancestors Living in Timbuktu ...”) for the French, there was no doubt that their national history does not begin with Chlodwig and even not from Vercingetoriga, but from the first painters of the Lasko cave.

Anyway, a similar expansion of Russia into its own past, it seems, did not take place. If they remembered about the Scythians, it was in the form of Vasnetsov’s curious picture “The Battle of the Scythians with the Slavs”, or in no less curious lamentations of Blok: “Yes, we are the Scythians! Yes, Asians are we, With slanted and greedy eyes! ”And this is despite the fact that by that time the works of one of the greatest historians who ever gave birth to Russia, Mikhail Ivanovich Rostovtsev, were published, in particular,“ Hellenism and Iran in southern Russia ". Everything was told there about the Indo-European origin of the Scythians and their lack of "slanting eyes", about their cultural synthesis with the Hellenes ...

From the pre-revolutionary “history of Rurik” we moved to the “history of the USSR”, which was a scattered mosaic of mechanical inclusions of republican stories in the Marxist model of Russian history. Do you remember what was written in the classic Soviet textbook of Nechkina-Leibengrub for the 7 class about the same Scythians or about the Greek cities of the northern Black Sea coast? Me not. Although for some reason I remember unexpectedly detailed stories about the kingdom of Urartu or the revolt of Babek. I also remember an unexpected patriotic pride in the Tripoli culture — it seems the only attempt to somehow integrate the Russian Slavonic past of the Russian Plain into an (inter) national model of history.

For those who are older, there were still experiments by academician B. A. Rybakov with the contact of the Gerodotsky Scythians-plowmen to the Slavs. The very logic of this experiment was unexpectedly biologizing for Soviet internationalism. If the “Scythians-Pahari” are Slavs, then this is our history, and if not, then it’s not ours either. The author of these lines least of all can be suspected of inattention to the ethnic origin in history, but such a question is absurd in essence and educationally harmful.

A paradoxical situation has arisen - despite the fact that the historical processes on the Russian Plain were much more organic than the historical processes in Western Europe, our history begins from scratch, as it were, from the Slavic settlement in the 7 century. At the same time, we subconsciously compete with Western Europe, where the French are the ancestors of the Gauls, the British Celtic leader Boudick resists the Romans, the Germans of the same Romans smash Arminius in the Teutoburg Forest, I generally keep quiet about the Italians and their direct origin from Mars through Ray Silvius.

Why, at the same time, Russian history begins with the second act - I don’t really understand. Neither from the position of modern science, which prefers to study the history of a long time span, nor from the position of patriotism and pedagogy, which should eradicate the complex of historical inferiority, and not contribute to it. The result is that our educator and half-educator invents and absorbs designs of pop history, Fomenkovism, “Etruscans are Russians,” “Protorus cities of Sunghiry,” filling up the need for an epic scale that cannot be found in textbooks.

In my subjective opinion, of course, there will be no misfortune if our schoolchild begins to study his native history with a detailed and colorful story about the finds in Kostenki, Sunghiri, Malta and even if he encounters such a paradoxical (but gradual entering into circulation) expression, civilization of mammoth hunters ".

If they tell him about the oldest metallurgical centers in our country and its protocities, the curtain over which the excavations of Arkaim were opened (why this topic was, in fact, left by our science to the occultists and the mentally ill, I am also not very clear).

If he finds out that it was from the Russian steppes that the broad expansion of Indo-Europeans, which changed the face of the ancient world, was launched.

If he realizes that those Scythians, the mounds of which were scattered across the Russian steppe, these are the Scythians who defeated the Assyrian empire and terrified the Ancient East for several decades — its quiver was like an open coffin; they are all men of courage ”(Jer. 5: 16).

If he gets an idea of ​​the strategic role played by the victory of the Scythians over Darius and the best Persian troops in that huge Persia could not crush the small policies of Greece.

If he perceives as his legacy of the Greek Black Sea cities - their art, the urban way of life and civic consciousness brought by them.

If he perceives the words “Chersonesus oath” as part of his historical heritage: “I will be one-minded about the welfare of the city and citizens ... I will not violate democracy, and I who will want to betray or violate will not permit and hide it with him ... I will accept the gift to the harm of the city and the fellow citizens ... ".

If the tragic picture of the rapid creation of the Black Sea power is ready and the fall of it is under the blow of the Huns - an event that changed the history of Western Europe, where the Goths and Huns came, and Eastern Europe, where they left, freeing the place of the new historical forces.

If, finally, the dispute about the Vikings, which he is doomed to find out, will take place for him not in the void of ideological confrontations, but in a particular node of the closest relations between the Slavs, the Scandinavians and (let's not forget!) The Balts and Finns in the Circum-Baltic region.

And when, finally, in the 882 year, with the capture of Oleg Kiev, a single Russian state will appear on the historical scene, it will appear before our schoolchild as the fruit of thousands of years of historical processes, and not as a random, isolated and incomprehensible phenomenon.

The pillar of his historical consciousness will not be the millennium, but the millennium.
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  1. Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer April 17 2013 07: 01 New
    33
    The history of Russia-still virgin soil not raised! Our history is written in a way that is beneficial to the regime existing in each given period. Numerous works of Russians, and not only Russians, scientists about our history have long been known. I observe with particular interest the attempts of M. Zadorny to convey to us, Russians, Slavs, Russians, our historical identification code. It is extremely important for us, as V.I. Lenin said, that it is crucial to recognize your national self as soon as possible, and most importantly, learn to respect yourself, respect your people, your culture. As soon as this happens, and I believe that this will inevitably happen, we will not be afraid of all attempts to kill Russian culture, the Russian soul with the help of the so-called show business, propaganda of pederasty and other Western influence alien to us! I believe - we have the most ancient history, moreover heroic and glorious! Glory to God, Glory to Russia, Glory to the Russian people!
    1. opkozak
      opkozak April 17 2013 07: 09 New
      12

      Now the story has to develop in the right direction. And given the conditions of globalization, it’s only in this ..
    2. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2013 07: 46 New
      +5
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      Our history is written in a way that is beneficial to the regime existing in each given period.


      What is worse is that for the sake of the "new" version, the old documents were carefully destroyed ... And now it is incredibly difficult to find the truth. But it is necessary that future generations could be even more proud of their country ...
    3. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim April 17 2013 08: 27 New
      +3
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      I believe - we have the most ancient history, moreover heroic and glorious!

      We all know that the Julian calendar was introduced in Russia, if I'm not mistaken by Peter 1. And you dig around what happened before.
    4. Vasily T.
      Vasily T. April 17 2013 08: 35 New
      0
      I totally agree with you! good
    5. Vasily T.
      Vasily T. April 17 2013 08: 37 New
      +1
      I totally agree with you! good
    6. kvodrato
      kvodrato April 17 2013 09: 06 New
      +5
      I agree completely. Russian history was written by enemies, namely, the Germans Miller, Bayer, Schlozer, and others.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 17 2013 10: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: kvodrato
        I agree completely. Russian history was written by enemies, namely, the Germans Miller, Bayer, Schlozer, and others.


        Not everything is so simple, many Russians had a hand in this "story"
    7. baltika-18
      baltika-18 April 17 2013 09: 15 New
      +6
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      The history of Russia-still virgin soil not raised!

      Absolutely.
      What is usually associated with Scythian culture? With burial mounds, which are burials. Most of the burial mounds are located in the south. And middle Russia would seem to have nothing to do with them. But few people know that in the 19th century, the commission of Count Uvarov destroyed 7500 mounds in Vladimir and Yaroslavl provinces. Moreover, they broke down with great speed for 3 years, was done under the guise of archaeological excavations, but the speed of the excavations does not mean scientific research, but the destruction of some undesirable evidence of a version of Russian history.
      So modern historians have something to ponder over.
    8. predator.3
      predator.3 April 17 2013 12: 32 New
      +1
      about the oldest metallurgical centers on the territory of our country and its proto-cities, the excavations of Arkaim were slightly veiled over (why this topic was, in fact, left by our science to the mercy of the occultists and the mentally ill

      Yes, there already these same occultists conduct real covens, there are just not enough flying witches! fool
      1. tomket
        tomket April 17 2013 13: 11 New
        0
        what kind of psycho crow ????
      2. Iraclius
        Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 09 New
        -2
        In-in, about which I spoke. Here it is - a natural consequence of the propaganda of wrecking pseudo-historical opuses. Dolboslavs in all its glory!
        Ugh, disgusting! fool
  2. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 17 2013 07: 03 New
    11
    Who knows. A. Blok also wrote:

    Zillions - you. We - the darkness and darkness and darkness.
    Try, fight with us!
    Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, Asians - we,
    With slanted and greedy eyes!

    For you - centuries, for us - a single hour.
    We are like obedient slaves
    Holding a shield between two hostile races
    Mongols and Europe!
  3. Vanek
    Vanek April 17 2013 07: 09 New
    10
    - US Horde !!!
    - And US!
  4. Fox
    Fox April 17 2013 07: 17 New
    15
    I remember M. Zadornov’s film “Arkaim.” There, one mattress-holder flew over Arkaim for a week and issued: “I’m not the last pepper in the scientific world, and I will make every effort so that no one would know about it in the West, otherwise we will have to rewrite the whole our history ... "(something like that, from memory) it’s a mattress. our" storytellers "give out even more interesting. In the latest textbooks on the history of Russia, the Gaidar, by his" reform "saved us from hunger. The same Tatar-Mongol yoke, serfdom. .. my ancestors from the Don, Northern Urals, Volga region ... and so, there were no serfs. Moreover, in the Volga region they moved to the "free lands" in 1800 ... we are doing everything to show what we are backward subhuman .but the most dangerous thing is not when the enemies talk about it, but when they plant "their own".
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 12 New
      -7
      As far as I know, M. Zadornov himself composed this legend. I, here, I think, some such their Does history need to be rewritten when the archaeological culture of the South Urals has been studied for a long time and successfully by the world scientific community? request
      It would be better if Misha continued to make people laugh, rather than climb into science.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 45 New
        -1
        At least one minus signer explained what he disagrees with me.
        Although ... The people like his philological exercises. All 95% of the population. And what am I trying to prove? what
        1. Pinochet000
          Pinochet000 April 17 2013 16: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Iraclius
          what does not agree with me.

          I don’t believe anyone, by definition, because in the era of information wars, you cannot trust anyone, only yourself on the level of intuition ...
          Explain how official philology explains the word formation of such words:
          It’s time, nora, night, rainbow, early, joy, hospitality, development, sedition .... I don’t believe in coincidences either, well, words cannot coincide both in meaning and content. IMHO
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius April 17 2013 17: 13 New
            +1
            Intuitively, the Sun revolves around the Earth. Which is flat and washed by the oceans. Keep believing your intuition.
            As for word formation - come to the lecture, I will tell and explain everything. The subject of the site does not allow to state the popular course of word formation of the Russian language. hi
            1. Pinochet000
              Pinochet000 April 17 2013 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Iraclius
              I’ll tell and explain everything

              You can not strain with you, as a specialist, verbiage is clear
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius April 17 2013 17: 27 New
                +1
                This time your intuition let you down - I never had anything to do with verbiage. To academic science - I have. To verbiage - no. And all the best to youhi

                PS You can try your hand at the program "Battle of psychics."
                1. Pinochet000
                  Pinochet000 April 17 2013 18: 00 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  never had anything to do with verbiage

                  Root: -Radug-; ending: a. laughing http://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%B0
                  Didn’t have a relationship with this too?
                2. Cynic
                  Cynic April 17 2013 18: 07 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  verbiage never has anything to do didn't have. To academic science - I have. To verbiage - no.

                  Hmm.
                  No _ Yes _ No.
                  The valid RAS came
                  1. Cynic
                    Cynic April 18 2013 15: 28 New
                    0
                    -1

                    Once the Emir decided to make all the inhabitants of Bukhara speak only the truth. To do this, put in front of the city gates. All incoming people were interrogated by the chief of the guard. If a person, in his opinion, was telling the truth, then they let him in. Otherwise - they hung.
                    A large crowd gathered in front of the gate. No one was afraid even to come close. Nasruddin boldly went to the head of the guard.
                    “Why are you going to town?” They asked him sternly.
                    “I'm going to be hanged on this paddle,” Nasruddin answered.
                    “You're lying!” Exclaimed the chief of the guard.
                    - Then hang me.
                    “But if we hang you, your words will become true.”
                    “That's it,” smiled Hodge, “it all depends on the point of view ...”
                3. Cynic
                  Cynic April 18 2013 16: 01 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  To academic science - I have.


                  In February 2013, the Investigative Committee announced the start of verification of information about the misuse of the Skolkovo Fund 3,5 billion rubles.
                  http://www.itar-tass.com/c1/711395.html
        2. Cynic
          Cynic April 17 2013 17: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Iraclius
          Although ...

          That's it .
          The article put a minus!
          Why _ Shibko the clever geologist wrote!
          The article is written by the knowledgeable for the knowledgeable! And most importantly, it can be interpreted in the light of the opinion of the reader _ Both yours and ours.
          A masterpiece of tolerance, politely speaking!
        3. Explore
          Explore April 17 2013 21: 10 New
          +2
          Ungrateful thing. Something to prove to someone. You need to think for this, strain the brain.
          As a student at the history department, I treat Zadornov as a good and funny comedian, but no more. His linguistic-historical ideas about the Etruscans and Co. are no different from the ukranian nonsense about the Ukropithek - the proraders of humanity. Generally nonsense.
          I will say more, I consider "I.G.R." the best work on history Karamzin. Although a lot of modern, more accurately considering this period.
          People who believe Zadornov are just the same as those who believe Rezun, Sokolov, and Solonin. Although proving to them with foam at the mouth that they are wrong, they will still talk about "closed secret archives" and "false official science", referring to the works of deletants and swindlers.

          Minus as you like. After all, this is easier than giving evidence.
  5. fenix57
    fenix57 April 17 2013 07: 20 New
    +6
    Quote: Old Warrant Officer
    The history of Russia-still virgin soil not raised! Our history is written in a way that is beneficial to the regime existing in each given period.

    Very correct. Fat plus sign! good
    1. engineer74
      engineer74 April 17 2013 11: 08 New
      +6
      I offer two versions of our history for study at school:
      1. We are the descendants of the Atlanteans (Hyperboreans, Aryans), the most ancient civilization of the planet - they flew into space when the Europeans mastered the digging stick and only we can save humanity from irreparable acts.
      2. Our story began with the baptism of Russia, we are the youngest civilization, when the whole world degenerates and degrades, only we can lead humanity forward to the stars.
      Submit an option for approval to a referendum. laughing
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius April 17 2013 15: 16 New
        0
        Yes Yes Yes. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian brothers are working hard on the history of the great imperial ukrov - the inventors of the wheel, the builders of the Egyptian pyramids, and all the wonders of the world, what really is there! lol
        So the theory of the origin of the Slavs from the Scythians is somehow already irrelevant. lol
  6. UFO
    UFO April 17 2013 07: 23 New
    0
    It seems to me that not a single titular people can be called our ancestor! We are an explosive mixture of Scythians, and Chukhons, and Varangians, and Sarmatians, and Mongol-Tatars, and Slavs ... + yet, is all history known to us? In the last resort? what
    1. FC SKIF
      FC SKIF April 17 2013 08: 26 New
      +2
      I do not understand that it is so difficult to do a large-scale genetic study? Is there really no money for this business? There is some evidence that the Slavs are almost the forefathers of all European peoples. So let's double-check everything, find out where our roots come from - Scythians, Finns or Tatars, and then present them to all interested parties, regardless of the results.
      1. Hon
        Hon April 17 2013 10: 33 New
        +4
        Most of the Scythian skeletons found in the burials of Siberia and Central Asia contain the haplogroup R1a1
        Comes from the mutation of haplogroup R1, which occurred in a man who lived approx. 15 years ago (according to the speed of mutations). Probable spread - in several waves. The most significant wave is approx. 000-3 thousand years ago from the Black Sea steppes, probably associated with the spread of Indo-European languages ​​and barrow culture. Most of all, this haplogroup is distributed among the Slavs, North Indians (descendants of the Vedic Aryans) and Central Asian peoples (Iranian-speaking Bactrians and Sogdians were the substrate)
      2. Gregazov
        Gregazov April 17 2013 11: 14 New
        +8
        Yes, it has long been completed. Moreover, there are no mixtures and crosses in the Russian genotype, unlike other so-called nationalities. Therefore, no matter how many Russian, there are three Tartars and a Jew you will not erase
      3. alebor
        alebor April 17 2013 11: 35 New
        +4
        Quote: FC Skiff
        I do not understand that it is so difficult to do a large-scale genetic study? Is there really no money for this business?

        In a rough approximation, you can do without money and complex genetic research. From biology it is known that the phenotype (appearance) of a living creature is determined by two factors - the genotype and the environment. For humans, the environmental impact is not significant and the phenotype is mainly determined by the genotype. Therefore, to determine the genetic relationship of peoples or even local groups of individual peoples, it is enough to look at their physiognomy. As a rule, with rare exceptions, if the peoples are similar in appearance, then they are genetically close. So you can conduct a thought experiment - take a typical representative of some people and, having dressed and combed it according to the customs of your locality, put it on the street of your native settlement, and then see if it gets lost among the locals or will stand out externally. That's the whole genetic analysis. (For example, on the streets, for example, Smolensk, a resident of Poltava, will surely merge with the crowd, and Varshavyanin most likely, too, but a resident of Liverpool or Toulouse may stand out (though not necessarily) with slightly unusual facial features, and already a resident of Lisbon or Yerevan immediately will stand out from the crowd. The inhabitants of Adis Ababa or Shanghai may not even be mentioned.)
        But in general, speaking of the kinship of peoples, they do not mean genetics, but culture, language, historical roots.
  7. Per se.
    Per se. April 17 2013 07: 35 New
    +5
    If you believe in God, then we are all from Adam and Eve, if you believe Darwin, we are all from monkeys (although perhaps different), where the truth is beyond the abyss of time, we can only guess. In any case, you need to love your people and their culture. The Russian language is unique in its semantic functionality, like Russian spirituality, obviously, in this Russia has its own historical mission.
    1. tan0472
      tan0472 April 17 2013 14: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Per se.
      If you believe in God, then we are all from Adam and Eve, if you believe Darwin, we are all from monkeys ...

      Easy for you to live. Simply. Apart from God and the monkeys, nothing existed for you. Your world is like a coin (obverse, reverse). Either way, or otherwise.
      1. Per se.
        Per se. April 18 2013 00: 22 New
        0
        Quote: tan0472
        Easy for you to live.
        Not easier than you. What is my world, not for you to judge, especially at the level of your coin.
  8. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek April 17 2013 07: 45 New
    -3
    well, now also the Scythians.
    Take all these historians and throw them into the past to the Scythians
    1. Kurbashi
      Kurbashi April 17 2013 07: 49 New
      -2
      Quote: Ragnarek
      well, now also the Scythians.
      Take all these historians and throw them into the past to the Scythians

      You plus wink They made fun of the word ..
    2. tomket
      tomket April 17 2013 13: 14 New
      -3
      well that's not sarmatians yet
  9. domokl
    domokl April 17 2013 07: 59 New
    +4
    In principle, I didn’t see any dynamite ... A good article. And the point of view is understandable. We pay too much attention to the Slavs, often ignoring the Slavs themselves. In most of the territory, even Ancient Russia, the Slavs did not live ... There were kindred peoples, but not Slavs. ..And Russia absorbed these peoples, absorbed both culture and customs and everything else. From here, probably, our difference, our enormous differences in places. From lifestyle to language. But we are all Russian.
    The author needs to write serious work so that the words are confirmed by something. In the meantime, this is the point of view and that’s all.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 17 2013 08: 30 New
      -1
      Quote: domokl
      In most of the territory, even Ancient Russia, the Slavs did not live ... There were related peoples, but not the Slavs ..

      Well, the peoples who inhabited northeastern Russia were not Slavs at all, they are Finno-Ugric tribes: the Murom, the whole, the caveman. Even toponymously, many geographical objects have preserved traces of that era. For example, all names with the endings -lga and -sha.
      1. alebor
        alebor April 17 2013 10: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Well, the peoples who inhabited northeastern Russia were not Slavs at all, they are Finno-Ugric tribes: the Murom, the whole, the caveman. Even toponymously, many geographical objects have preserved traces of that era.

        Indeed, when it was not the Slavs who lived in the territory of central Russia, but the Finno-Ugric peoples and the Balts, and before them someone else, and before them, more ... The same can be said about any other country: Germany, Poland, Bulgaria , Greece, Turkey, etc. -List can be continued for a very long time, once in the territories of these countries there were completely different peoples than now. And what from this?
        As for the resettlement of Slavs in the territory of present-day central Russia, archeological data show that Slavic rural settlements and cemeteries were mostly purely Slavic, and not mixed Slavic-Finnish-Baltic. The range and frequency of Slavic settlements gradually increased, while the Finno-Ugric gradually faded and disappeared.
    2. b.sh.d.13
      b.sh.d.13 April 17 2013 09: 01 New
      +8
      You are mistaken. Throughout this vast territory from east to west, including what is called ancient Russia, it was the Slavs who lived, and not some kindred peoples. And Russia did not absorb anything from anyone. She always had everything of her own. But foreign nations coming to our land took ours and remade them for themselves and they studied with us. But you are not to blame. This is all from the non-competence of our scientists. And the name "Scythians" comes from the ancient name of the Slavic settlements "Scoofs" - a city without a fence (fence). The Greeks could not understand and pronounce the word correctly, and therefore wrote the "Scythians". Here it is in this form and reached the scientists.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets April 17 2013 09: 06 New
        0
        Quote: b.sh.d.13
        Wrong.

        Yes?
        Quote: b.sh.d.13
        Throughout this vast territory from east to west, including what is called ancient Russia, it was the Slavs who lived, and not some kindred peoples.

        Did you yourself attend?
        Quote: b.sh.d.13
        But you are not to blame.

        Well thank you, relieved. hi
        1. b.sh.d.13
          b.sh.d.13 April 17 2013 10: 37 New
          +5
          Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. But you yourself, too, were not present at the same time to everyone. However, believe only the works of research, and what do strangers. Their own scientists, too, use other people's research, and for the most part agree with these conclusions. But there are scientists and enthusiasts who themselves conducted their research, accumulated facts and came to disappointing conclusions. A lot of what is written about the Scythians is a lie. Found sources, including documentary ones, say that the Scythians are Slavs and originally lived in the territory of the modern Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, as well as in the Rostov region. It was all previously called Scythia. And also documents found in the archives of the Russian special services were found. They are no longer secret, but in order to avoid misunderstandings in society they simply are not laid out for public display, although anyone can visit the archive and get acquainted with them. So there are collected records and documents from different eras, even those that belong to before Christian Russia. These records and documents were examined for authenticity under Stalin and Beria. And also not so long ago by modern commissions, with which they were independent, in which even foreign scientists were accepted. So the conclusion was that everything found and stored is the originals. And Western scholars said that they recognize that the Slavs are older than the others and much that the world knows came from the Slavs, but they will not officially confirm this, which is recorded in the same archive and signed by them. Everything is said there about the Scythians - they are Slavs, and the word "Russian" appeared much later, so the ancient Greeks began to call the Slavs who lived in the western part of Russia which are geographically closer to modern Europe, that is, where modern Ukraine and Belarus are. I don’t want to convince you of anything, just if there is such an opportunity, you can see for yourself everything yourself, and after that you can find it yourself.
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets April 17 2013 11: 20 New
            0
            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you.

            I was not offended. drinks
            But you contradict yourself:
            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            However, believe only the works of research, and what do strangers. Their own scientists, too, use other people's research, and for the most part agree with these conclusions.

            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            But there are scientists and enthusiasts who themselves conducted their research, accumulated facts and came to disappointing conclusions.

            Why should I believe one more than the other? After all, you also adhere to the point of view that you liked more and just like I do not know the whole picture.
            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            So there are collected records and documents from different eras, even those that belong to before Christian Russia.

            Pre-Christian Russia ... smile Russia was baptized in 988, so pre-Christian Russia is a very small period.
            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            just if there is such an opportunity, then you can see for yourself everything yourself, and after that you can find what you yourself.

            You can see it for yourself if you yourself settle with the Slavs, but what is shown in the program "Mysterious Territory" (or something like that) on ren-tv is not a story.
            In principle, I am not against your version, but it is not clear to me why you, referring to some enthusiasts, defend it that way. Here you are telling that
            Quote: b.sh.d.13
            Found sources, including documentary ones, say that the Scythians are Slavs and originally lived in the territory of the modern Stavropol and Krasnodar Territories, as well as in the Rostov region. It was all previously called Scythia.

            And to the north at this time there was no one or something?
            1. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets April 17 2013 11: 21 New
              0
              From the parent in the Vladimir region at 3 km, several sites were found.
              "Monuments of archeology cover two stages of human development:
              -period BC, represented by a complex of parking:
              Mesolithic era / Middle Stone Age-VII millennium BC /, near the villages of Elhovitsa ("Fox Borki-II"). The discovered parking is located on the dunes along the left, more elevated bank of the Klyazma. The thickness of the cultural layer is from 7 to 30 cm. Humus-rich dark gray sand includes charcoal, ash, flint flakes, knife-shaped plates, calcined animal bones, shell shell pearls.

              Neolithic era / New Stone Age - IV-III millennium BC /, near the villages of Elhovitsa ("Fox Borki-1"), Ugor ("Ugor-II"). In the cultural layer, in addition to humus-rich dark gray sand, charcoal, ash and flint flakes, ceramics were found, represented by fragments of stucco ornamental round-bottom pots. Monuments provide additional material on the history of migration of Neolithic tribes belonging to the so-called culture of pit-comb ceramics.
              Bronze Age / II millennium BC / near the villages of Elhovitsa ("Fox Borki-Sh"), Ugor ("Ugor-I, III, IV"). The banks of large rivers gradually cease to be a place of attraction of a person, settlements move farther and farther away from the main waterways. Cattle breeding is becoming increasingly important on the farm. "
            2. b.sh.d.13
              b.sh.d.13 April 17 2013 15: 54 New
              +1
              Why wasn’t there, were to the north. But the Scythians lived in the south. And the Slavs were called Scythians because they lived in unfenced cities (without fences), and not because they had such surnames either the name of the locality or something else. Skuf (Scythian) is a settlement without a fence. They did not need to build fences, because they lived inside the "country" and among their own. Why should they defend themselves against theirs? Well, then the modern inhabitants of the Caucasus did not live in these places, they later came. See for yourself, for 1500 years, Armenians, Georgians, the same Chechens do not have a single building built by their own hands, all this was already built when they arrived. And when the Slavs left those places, these buildings fell into disrepair and began to collapse. If they (Caucasians) built them, then why did they allow their destruction? Yes, because they did not have knowledge in these areas. Why did they build their dwellings from manure, branches and other such material? They have lived there for more than one hundred years and there is no progress in any improvement. That now they began to "develop". But in Russia in those days, houses were solid and made of wood and other buildings made of stone, and everything was not collapsing. Because they looked after them, looked after them, and therefore everything stood for centuries. And I do not defend enthusiasts and others, but they are great at least doing something and are looking with their brains and hands, and are not following the others. I don’t watch television by the way and I don’t listen to the radio. All that cats in these media does not interest me.
            3. b.sh.d.13
              b.sh.d.13 April 18 2013 12: 00 New
              0
              Long before Prince Slaven went north and founded the city of Slavensk, the Slavs already visited there with a leader named Skand and a priest named Volkh (some stayed there to live), they moved to the lands now known as Scandinavia, Great Britain. But the priest did not reach those lands, he died and the river Volkhov was named after him, that is, where he died.
      2. svp67
        svp67 April 17 2013 10: 46 New
        0
        Quote: b.sh.d.13
        Throughout this vast territory from east to west, including what is called ancient Russia, it was the Slavs who lived, and not some kindred peoples.



        Veles book says:
        From here began the three births. And they united and were glorious. From here come the Drevlyans, Krivichi and the meadow, for the first daughter of Bohumir had a name - Treva, and the other - Skreva, and the third - Poleva.

        The sons of Bohumir had names - Seva, and the youngest - Rus. From them come the northerners and Rus.

        And there were princes Slaven with his brother Skif.

        And they came to the north, and there Slaven founded his city. And his brother Skif was by the sea, and he was old, and had his son Wend, and after him there was a grandson who owned the southern steppes.
  10. DimychDV
    DimychDV April 17 2013 08: 23 New
    +7
    It was no coincidence that Zadornov became friends with Sergei Alekseev. His novels of the 90s are simply read with pride! The Valkyrie series.
    And the Varangians called Russia Gardarika - the country of cities. By the same square city was more than in Europe. And the city is a different, collective mentality, crafts and squad.
    In general, our historians are indebted to the people.
  11. Humpty
    Humpty April 17 2013 08: 25 New
    +5
    Not only charlatans from history, but serious researchers have long noticed one curious point, if some historical event mentioned does not fit in with the traditional version, then it is marked as absurd in advance. For example, the mention in the Gothic annals of the battle with the Russians is so in the fourth near the city of Voronezh, on the Vorone River. Or a raid on the rear of Akhmat commanders Ivan the third Uruguay and Oblyaz. History has not only been rewritten so many times that now the devil will break his leg, as it was in reality.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 17 2013 09: 31 New
      +1
      Dear Humpty! Can you read more about this fabulous Gothic annals? Just do not say that this is a book of Veles. lol
      I once studied the Gothic language and I know that the only Gothic text that has come down to us is the gospel of the Gothic bishop Ulfila.
      I will tell you so - if the official story is silent, then, therefore, there is a reason for this. But there is one reason - this is falsification, fake, anachronism. About the reasons for the fraud, the conversation is separate. Respectfully! hi
      1. Humpty
        Humpty April 17 2013 10: 51 New
        +3
        Relying on rumors and unverified information, of course, is simply stupid. But quite an official story is full of rumors and myths, for example, "stupid and evil Stalin", "good and St. Nicholas II."
        Essential historical data should be checked, and not swept as false in advance. Official science has been lazy lately, that's why many parahistorical charlatans and honest, but often mistaken, enthusiasts have divorced.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius April 17 2013 11: 07 New
          0
          I agree with you. Data verification is an essential part of academic historical science. Charlatans (or intruders?) Disdain this and immediately offer to rewrite history completely.
          So what about the Gothic annals? If necessary, I can even translate into Russian. repeat
  12. Iraclius
    Iraclius April 17 2013 08: 30 New
    0
    The article is concise, without undue bias, a definite plus.
    As for the Scythians - at least Asian Scythians, related to those whose remains were found in Pazyryk had pronounced Asian features (in the anthropological sense). The Saka tribes also probably had some Asian substrate. Ethnically, everything is very confusing and complicated. In addition, there are very few written sources on this subject. A meager list of tribal names with the inscription Daryavaush the Great, foggy listings of Herodotus and Byzantine anachronisms, where Slavs are already mentioned under the Scythians.
    That is why academic science is silent - not a single historian who respects himself in the slightest degree will say anything about the origin of the Slavs from the Scythians with such meager factual material. Rybakov was still cautious in his work.
    If they had found burial places (at least a few), where representatives of Iranian-speaking nomads and Slavs (proto-Slavs) were buried, then we could talk about some kind of continuity. The cultural exchange between the Steppe and farmers was definitely. But the continuity?
    There is no conspiracy theory here at all. Although such silence of official science created fertile ground for folk history, which cannot but sadden.
    As for Arkaim - unhealthy hysteria around this excavation is observed. As always, all sorts of prophets were found (thanks to Zadornov!) Who began to carry all kinds of nonsense and in every possible way to agitate the history of the Fatherland. And the fact that there are no professional historians is explained very simply - financing! My good friend from Astrakhan University has been digging Itil for many years now with a group of enthusiasts - students and graduate students - instead of vacation. Without a penny of help from the state. We draw conclusions. hi
  13. Igarr
    Igarr April 17 2013 08: 35 New
    +2
    I will object, Alexander (domokl).
    I did not see anything good in this article. In addition to the next run over to "Fomenkovschina" - as a pop story.
    E.Kholmogorov - I didn’t read, but he knows .... I understand.
    And the article itself is quasi-learned, quasi-terminological.
    If the author managed to see in the writings of historians only the second act of Russia - well ... then the gun hanging on the wall will shoot after the curtain is lowered.
    The feeling that the author is only Rostovtseva M.I. and Rybakova B.A. - and only knows.
    And, by the way, in the Children's Encyclopedia of the 1970's, in the volume History - it was well written about the city-polis of the Northern Black Sea Region - Olbia, Khersones, Persepolis.
    The author, simply, did not give himself any work ... a little deeper insight - than into pop history.
    Well, he live.
  14. Iraclius
    Iraclius April 17 2013 08: 52 New
    0
    And what is wrong with the next run over to pseudoscientific obscurantism?
    1. Igarr
      Igarr April 17 2013 09: 04 New
      +3
      And you, Andrei, seriously think that history dates back exactly as many years as historians wrote?
      You can be critical of writing under the brand name of the New Chronology.
      But it is impossible to use the mathematical method applied to the study of "chronologies" or narrative texts (referred to by Nosovsky-Fomenko) - pop..history.
      Take, for example, Hans Delbrück - a German historian, take this site - http://www.simposium.ru/ru/node/558 ..
      and see what then you need to blame ... the German General Staff from the time of the 19-20 century.
      Because, then the army of Darius - degenerates into a gangster band.
      And the army of Xerxes - in a badly organized gang.
      And all these ... Scythians, Cimmerians and hoplites are in a bunch of shepherds armed with sticks.
      1. Iraclius
        Iraclius April 17 2013 09: 17 New
        0
        I believe that the scientific methods used by academic science meet two conditions - sufficiency and necessity. Whereas fi-n absolutely absolutely amateurishly multiply entities beyond necessity, rudely violating the scientific approach. Regards and hello! hi
        If, say, they found the remnants of a war chariot in Sintasht and conducted a radiocarbon analysis of the remains of horses, which were shown around 2026 BC, this suggests that this chariot is the oldest known. Since the other chariot from Mesopotamian Ur dates only to the middle of the 3 millennium BC.
        And FiN offered a purely speculative new chronology. The key dates of which, by the way, differ even among their followers, which, as it were, symbolizes. lol
        1. Igarr
          Igarr April 17 2013 09: 31 New
          +2
          Your words -
          "..FIN absolutely in an amateurish manner multiply entities beyond necessity ..",
          "..Fin proposed a purely speculative new chronology ..."
          .
          Conclusion - you are not familiar with the mathematical apparatus of text research.
          Entities beyond the minimum sufficient - HX excludes! For your information.
          It is a pity.
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius April 17 2013 09: 45 New
            -2
            I read books of fiN. With the so-called mathematical apparatus of these so-called I know the academicians well. All modern chronology, which the authors stubbornly and stupidly attach to Scaliger, is absolutely adequately checked by the methods of astronomy. Solar and lunar eclipses, short-period comets. I repeat - the absolute convergence of astronomical phenomena and historical dates in classical chronology. The mat.apparatus of FiN was smashed to pieces by the doctor phys.-mat. sciences Gorodetsky (see. "History and anti-history. Criticism of the" new chronology "of academician A. T. Fomenko"). I won’t even talk about criticism of Almagest - FiM simply blew the roof there. I have never read such a frenzied nonsense, a pure stream of consciousness. lol And now the question is - why do fi ns multiply entities beyond necessity, grossly violating the Occam principle? I’ll answer you - in mathematics they didn’t get a damn and climbed with their snout there, which they don’t know a damn about, which was repeatedly pointed out by professionals. Did not help. Eventually?
            If the names of academicians of Ginzburg, Plate do not tell you anything, as well as the official condemnation of HX as pseudoscience on the pages of the newsletter by the Commission against Pseudoscience under the Presidium of the RAS, then I don’t even know. I don’t understand people who are martyrs of science out of dealers and speculators, who are FiN. Almost Copernicans and Galileans. Not even funny already.

            And the last one - I dare to recall that since the mid-90's. HX is a successful commercial project. Now Rybakov’s monographs are hard to find, and all counters are littered with Fomenkovism.
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 17 2013 10: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Iraclius
              And the last - I dare to recall that since the mid-90s. HX is a successful commercial project.

              Now maybe it has become.
              But in 1973, when Fomenko began to deal with this problem, there was no question of any commerce.
              Quote: Iraclius
              I’ll answer you - in mathematics they didn’t get a damn and climbed with their snout there, which they don’t know a damn about, which was repeatedly pointed out by professionals.

              Here you are frankly lying.
              Quote: Iraclius
              in mathematics they didn’t get a damn and climbed with their snout

              I don’t even want to argue with you.
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius April 17 2013 10: 26 New
                -1
                Quote: baltika-18
                I don’t even want to argue with you.

                The traditional "argument". Thanks for the constructive dialogue.
                My philological education rebels against the linguistic pearls of PhiN. What are these: Thracians = Franks = Turks. laughing
                Quote: baltika-18
                Here you are frankly lying.

                Come on, come on ... Tell me how I lie. Just in case:
                Specialists have serious complaints about the content of some of the basic mathematical work of A. T. Fomenko. In the review of F. Almgren, who is considered devastating, he points out a number of gross errors and the discrepancy between the declared achievements and the actual results obtained.

                As they say, a pig will find dirt everywhere. Charlatans are such charlatans.
                Well, the last nail in the coffin of the HX was driven from a completely unexpected side in 2004:
                Antipremiya “Passage” in the nomination “Honorary Illiteracy” - for “especially cynical crimes against Russian literature” [


                We read books on HX, enjoy and consider ourselves patriots. Keep it up! good
                1. tomket
                  tomket April 17 2013 13: 24 New
                  -1
                  It makes sense to argue with the adherents of FiN? Give them at least a thousand arguments, they will glance at the numbers and tryndyat-eclipse-enemies of Russia, a conspiracy. And they do not care about the near-by that they, for example, have already been equated with infanticide, and Christ FiN declared a child-eater. Who is interested, read the opus about Carthage, how Christ became Astarte and Christianity is the cult of Baal, famous for the sacrifice of infants. In the face, then for such words Mr. Fomenko do not want to spit ????
                  1. baltika-18
                    baltika-18 April 17 2013 19: 23 New
                    0
                    Quote: tomket
                    and Christ FiN declared a child eater

                    You didn’t read Fomenko at all. If you read such crap you didn’t write.
                    1. tomket
                      tomket April 17 2013 20: 34 New
                      0
                      it’s just you didn’t read Fomenko, so what Fomenko writes .... The Carthaginians adhered to the cult of ASTARTA and BAAL. As we have shown in the book "Bible Russia", we are talking about Christianity. The name AS-TARTA may have come from JESUS-TARTARIA, JESUS-TATARIA, since Russia-Horde was the largest Christian kingdom of that era. In Russia, Jesus Christ was worshiped ..... Further, the name BAAL, as we have said more than once, could mean VOLGA or MOISTURE or WHITE (WHITE Russia). From here came the names BABYLON, BULGARIANS: probably, “Volgars”, people from the Volga. As we have shown in the books "Foundations of History" and "Methods", one of the names of Tsar-Grad was really BABYLON, brought here by the troops of Rus-Horde in the 13th century. Later, Scaligerian history declared Astarte and Baal - some mysterious pagan "ancient" deities, trying to obscure the fact that in fact it was a question of Christianity of the XII-XIII centuries.
                      Still have questions ???? or you throw off a link to the excavation of the graves of infants called tofetami in Carthage ???? So, are you ready to identify yourself with pagan infanticides ????
                2. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 17 2013 13: 43 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  My philological education rebels against linguistic pearls

                  Your classical philological education produces the word “vanilla” from the word “vagina.” I have enough to doubt the correctness of classical linguistic research.
                  I can also remind you that modern linguistics was born along with the concept of the history of Scaliger, and voluntarily or involuntarily is very much connected with history.
                  For fun: the word "butterfly" is the origin of the "buttery excrement of the butterfly." This is your classic linguistics and philology.
                  Isn't it time to start thinking on our own, and not listen to the opinions of the "authorities" in the scientific robes who write all kinds of crap?
                  1. Iraclius
                    Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 21 New
                    +1
                    Here it is. They took and poured mud all modern science. belay A worthy step. It was you who poured mud all the teachers that you were taught and the teachers of the university where you studied. Have you studied? You are not from Dolboslavs, by chance? Well, those who worship stumps and swastikas?
                    For the first time I hear about butterfly and vanilla. Something from the field of anecdotes, apparently, which students compose, instead of preparing for the session.
                    And, here, FiM such exercises with philology vykabachuyut that you wonder. However, I do not exclude that the substance is guilty.
                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 31 New
                      0
                      Dear baltika-18. You know that a rather lengthy discussion was held with the Finnish Socialist University on the pages of the journal Vesnik RAS. True, the discussion is one-sided, because the gentlemen of Finnish Finance didn’t even bother to explain all the nonsense that they wrote in their HX. If memory serves, then in 2002 the discussion was terminated with the conclusion on the complete and unconditional insolvency of HX. Not a single provision of the National Assembly meets the conditions of adequacy, validity and objectivity. There are cases of fitting results. The concept of the scientific method, the gentlemen of financial science, is very superficial. This allows us to conclude not only about the "work" itself, but also about the personas of financial and social services. Truth is born in a dispute from which the gentlemen of the pseudo-scientists have withdrawn. Conclusion?

                      PS Yesterday on the Internet I watched a video with the participation of Ms. Zhirkova (this is the football player’s wife). So, among other things, the correspondent asked her about what the orbits around - the Sun around the Earth or vice versa. Who wrote the Vienna Waltz and similar elementary questions. She did not answer a single one!
                      This shows a frank dibilization of Russian society. It is very bad that all these folk historians planted their bundle of brushwood in a fire. Very, very sorry.
                      1. Iraclius
                        Iraclius April 17 2013 14: 57 New
                        0
                        And the last one. Now thousands of kids are browsing this site.
                        Which, perhaps, have never heard of the Fin. But from your, baltika-18, statements about HX they will have doubt. And they will begin to read these books. And what will they get? They will receive the void, because the goal of the HX is one - to destroy Russian history without offering in return nothing! Do you admire overt pests that propagate frenzied pseudo-scientific nihilism? I will not advise you, because I see no reason, but at least think about the younger generation. Who or what do you want to see in them - patriots of your country and its history or rootless cosmopolitans who do not believe in the power of knowledge and science?
                      2. Black
                        Black April 17 2013 19: 50 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Iraclius
                        It is very bad that all these folk historians planted their bundle of brushwood in a fire. Very, very sorry.


                        I followed your discussion ... In vain you break your spears. Fans of financial science do not burden, like their gurus, with evidence. They just believe. Faith cannot be defeated by facts and arguments.
                        The fact that the long-legged Zhyrkovs do not know that the Earth is round is not a problem (in FIG), but the fact that many fans on the site are fan of financial and financial information from a single message is “patriotic horror” - THIS IS SORRY.
                      3. Cynic
                        Cynic April 17 2013 21: 31 New
                        0
                        Quote: Chen
                        they don’t know that the Earth is round, it’s not a problem

                        Really it doesn’t matter, the geoid is not round.
                  2. baltika-18
                    baltika-18 April 17 2013 16: 58 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    where did you study. Did you study?

                    Ivanovo Institute of Chemical Technology. Specialty MAHP-CAD.
                    I have been fond of philology for a long time, I speak English and German.
                    Quote: Iraclius
                    Something from the field of anecdotes, apparently, which students compose

                    "The Concise Dictionary of English Etimologi" (1993) is an acknowledged publication by the entire learned world that causes awe among philologists and linguists around the world.
                    1. Iraclius
                      Iraclius April 17 2013 17: 06 New
                      0
                      It's funny Since when does the noun "vanilla" have English roots? lol
                      The word New Latin is Spanish in origin and means "pod".
                    2. baltika-18
                      baltika-18 April 17 2013 17: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: Iraclius
                      The word novolatinskoe

                      They draw such a line of Latin-Old French-pod, by the appearance of the vanilla fruit, but the vanilla has a fruit box.
                      Look very interesting.
                    3. baltika-18
                      baltika-18 April 17 2013 17: 35 New
                      0
                      Quote: Iraclius
                      It's funny Since when does the noun "vanilla" have English roots?

                      There is nothing to do with English roots. This is an English edition of an etymological dictionary, I emphasize that it is recognized throughout the world.
                3. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 17 2013 17: 02 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  For the first time I hear about butterfly and vanilla.

                  Apparently as a linguist you are not strong.
                  1. Iraclius
                    Iraclius April 17 2013 17: 08 New
                    0
                    Where are we, sivolapym. lol
                    We started with ethnogenesis, continued FN with HX and dolboslava, and ended with vaginas and vanilla - the day was not in vain.
                4. Cynic
                  Cynic April 17 2013 21: 46 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  They took and poured mud all over modern science.

                  Does it exist?
                  What is now positioned as modern science does not correlate with science. There are officials from science, but science as such ...
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  That you poured mud on everyone ...

                  Familiar rhetoric, when there is nothing to say, we begin to practice sophistry.
                  Here is the level of modern science

                  Yes, by the way _ I support tolerance, but I do not practice.
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 17 2013 17: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: Iraclius
              Thracians = Franks = Turks.

              As a philologist, you should understand that the root base of these words is identical to “trk” or “frk”, these words were written through the letter “fita”, which was read in two ways, both as “f” and as “t.” Vowels are unstable, they can easily go into each other. In the near antiquity they wrote in a solid line without spaces or vowels. So there is nothing surprising in this series.
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius April 17 2013 17: 16 New
                +1
                You show me any official text, at least in Latin, Greek or Old Slavonic, in which there are no vocalizations. Then we continue the conversation.
                If you speak German, you probably know about what evolution it underwent during its development from Gothic and Old High German (the second movement of consonants). So, the laws of this evolution are no less stringent than the laws of biological evolution. What spontaneous permutations in words are you talking about?
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 April 17 2013 19: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Iraclius
                  the laws of this evolution are no less stringent than the laws of biological evolution.

                  Everything is relative.
                  As an example, the ancient German horse is ROSS, the modern horse is Pferd, and the field is Pfeld. Some suggestions. With whom did the ancient German associate the horse? The field is plowed by a horse, replacing one letter and the horse turned out of the field. And the sounds "r" and "l" are replaceable in any language, "r" is often not pronounced, and the Japanese have no sound "r" at all, instead of it is "l". The root is the same "pl" in the word "field" and Pfeld. In Russian there are bushes of words with this root is semantically close, but the Germans do not, and indeed in no language other than Russian.
        2. Igarr
          Igarr April 17 2013 10: 26 New
          +1
          "... which of the dealers and speculators, whom are the Finnish Academy of Science, make the martyrs of science. Almost the Copernicans and Galileans. It's not even funny already."
          .
          Not even funny already.
          1. Iraclius
            Iraclius April 17 2013 10: 29 New
            +1
            Igarr, I won’t understand at all - do you make fun of it or do you seriously believe in that nonsense with which the opuses of the Finn are full ?! belay
            1. Igarr
              Igarr April 17 2013 10: 42 New
              +2
              I specifically emphasized - to be critical of writing under the brand name HX.
              Scientific work cannot be on 20 volumes.
              Therefore - I assume that .... if they buy - then why not write?
              Nikitin Yuri collected 45 books about Richard Long Hands.
              The thing is different, that unintelligible writings jeopardize the apparatus for researching manuscripts and chronicles.
              But, Newton’s research on the gravitational constant and the motion of the moon - are not related to the free description of alternative versions of history.
              The research of Morozov, including the zodiacs, is also independent of HX.
              But they "blow" into the same pipe-VERSION - modern chronology - LIPA.
              ..
              A very good question - ".. seriously believe in that nonsense .."
              My answer is no.
              But I believe that the chronology does not count 3 thousand years BC. And the Chinese - in general - 5 thousand.
              Everything is much shorter. Everything is much simpler. Primitive.
              .
              And judging by your question .... History is a question of FAITH.
              I think so too.
              1. Iraclius
                Iraclius April 17 2013 11: 17 New
                +1
                Igarr, let faith remain the inheritance of religion. I am far from that. Why is history called science? Because it operates with accurate factual material and studies various sources to restore the sequence of events in the past. And faith is no place here. I applied this word only because the “works” of the financial and social sciences are not subject to rational perception. lol
                Quote: Igarr
                3 thousand years BC. And the Chinese - in general - 5 thousand.

                With all due respect, Igarr, about the absolute and relative geological ages, as well as stratigraphy, have you heard? wink
                Archaeological sites are not just dated.
              2. tomket
                tomket April 17 2013 13: 28 New
                0
                In general, in principle, there is health, lovers of nonsense are multiplying, why don’t they feed what they want to read? Let's say the ancient Slavs already plowed on chtz tractors, and so on, and as evidence, you can take a couple of boulders and expose them to petrified geese from these same chtz)))))
  • vkusniikorj
    vkusniikorj April 17 2013 09: 00 New
    0
    article about the fact that in parrots we are longer! For example, Gorkovskoye is closer to me, I am a MAN and it sounds proud !!!
  • Iraclius
    Iraclius April 17 2013 09: 05 New
    +3
    The article is about the fact that the author is absolutely rightly perplexed about the inattention of domestic science to the ancient period of Russian history, and even of the Slavs in general. Although the Slavs are the largest ethnic group in Europe. For M. Gorky - thanks! hi
  • Oleg1986
    Oleg1986 April 17 2013 09: 53 New
    +4
    Kholmogorov is an openly liberal project that has already replaced so many "patriotic" guises that it’s not even funny. Of course, any intelligent person periodically casts doubt on some key beliefs, but you can only change the vector of thought under the influence from outside.
    I’m convinced for the hundredth time that it’s not open liberals whose stupidity is obvious, but mishandled Cossacks who are hiding behind the “national idea” who will ruin the country.
    1. krez-74
      krez-74 April 17 2013 10: 21 New
      +4
      good At 1000% I agree with you! It is impossible to disassemble the layers of history, tying it specifically to itself or specifically to another.
      So I live in Kabarda, and there is the Shanibovs mound, it is even indicated on the maps. I will not explain now why my people put mounds and in honor of what and for what merit, but according to Kholmogorov it turns out that I am a Scythian ... in general, Russians and Circassians (Adygs) have a lot of identical things both in words, in everyday life and in worldviews! But here is the fact, figures from "science", "" thinkers "from our peoples, and especially chroniclers and ministers of religions, HERE AND THROUGH THE AGE OF AGES HIDE THESE POINTS OF CONTACT, SO AS THE PROBLEM OF THEY IS ONE TO SEPARATE!
  • krez-74
    krez-74 April 17 2013 10: 22 New
    +2
    So I live in Kabarda, and there is the Shanibovs mound, it is even indicated on the maps. I will not explain now why my people put mounds and in honor of what and for what merit, but according to Kholmogorov it turns out that I am a Scythian ... in general, Russians and Circassians (Adygs) have a lot of identical things both in words, in everyday life and in worldviews! But here is the fact, figures from "science", "" thinkers "from our peoples, and especially chroniclers and ministers of religions, HERE AND THROUGH THE AGE OF AGES HIDE THESE POINTS OF CONTACT, SO AS THE PROBLEM OF THEY IS ONE TO SEPARATE!
  • screw cutter
    screw cutter April 17 2013 10: 54 New
    +7
    According to medieval sources that Mavro Orbini studied (I repeat that some of them are irretrievably lost, while others are stored in the Vatican library), the Slavs fought with almost all the nations of the world. They ruled Asia, North Africa, occupied most of modern Europe. It was they who destroyed the Roman Empire. They entered modern edited history as “Germanic tribes” - Franks, Utes, Angles, Saxons, Vandals, Lombards, Goths, Alans, etc. They founded their kingdoms all over Europe: from North Africa (Vandals, Veneti-Venets) and Spain to British Isles. The Slavs founded almost all the royal and noble families of Europe, for example, the first princely family of modern France - the Merovingian dynasty (founder Prince Merovey). And the Franks-the Wraves themselves are a union of the raven-ravens tribes.

    According to Orbini, Scandinavia was also inhabited by Slavs, and the current Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Icelanders and other “German-Scandinavian peoples” are direct descendants of the Slavs. Their faith in the solar gods was destroyed, the sagas and epics were edited, and in fact, new “literary” languages ​​were invented.

    This and other information that the “academic” world of Europe is hiding can be found in the work of Orbini. The reason is clear - geopolitics. The current European elites cannot admit that European history itself, up to the 10-12 centuries, is the history of the Slavs and their wars. The current countries of Scandinavia, Austria, Germany, Italy, France, England were founded by the Rus-Slavs, the Slavs who inhabited these lands were destroyed, partially assimilated. This is the largest genocide in human history. Their language, faith destroyed. And the process is not completed, now there is an assimilation of Southern Russia and White Russia - the Russians inhabiting these lands are transformed into Ukrainians and Belarusians, their languages ​​(especially the Little Russian dialect of the single Russian language) are distorted. Russian in the Russian Federation turn into rootless "Russians". There is a war of annihilation against the greatest civilization of the Rus-Slavs.

    Sources:
    Orbini Mavro. Slavic kingdom. The origin of the Slavs and the spread of their rule. M., 2010.
    Petukhov Yu. D. History of the Rus. 40-5 thousand. BC. e. M. 2000.
    Petukhov Yu. Primary Source of the Rus. M., 2010.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 17 2013 11: 23 New
      -1
      ... Orbini believed that many European nations descended from the Slavs: Swedes, Finns, Goths, Dacians, Normans, Burgundians, Bretons, etc.

      Actually, you can not continue further. laughing
      He probably did not hear about the Chinese. And then (what really there!) And they would be included in the list of descendants of the Slavs. Patriotism is good. The main thing is not to bring it to the point of absurdity.
      1. A. Yaga
        A. Yaga April 17 2013 14: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Iraclius
        ... Orbini believed that many European nations descended from the Slavs: Swedes, Finns, Goths, Dacians, Normans, Burgundians, Bretons, etc.

        Actually, you can not continue further. laughing
        He probably did not hear about the Chinese. And then (what really there!) And they would be included in the list of descendants of the Slavs. Patriotism is good. The main thing is not to bring it to the point of absurdity.

        Blindness should not be affected either. Do not reject the obvious. Vintorez is far from all sources indicated. Many have heard about the Chinese, especially about the "Creation of the World in the Star Temple" and the subsequent construction of the Chinese wall with loopholes in the direction of the Chinese.
        1. Iraclius
          Iraclius April 17 2013 15: 10 New
          -2
          Quote: A. Yaga
          Vintorez is far from all sources indicated.

          Petukhov's last name is enough for me.
          It’s not so much his numerous novels and novels that are not distinguished by artistic merit that brought Petukhov fame, as Petukhov’s pathological desire to shock the public with the obsessive propaganda of his own “genius”: numerous interviews with himself, advertising posters and booklets, statements on the press ”

          Actually, the diagnosis is obvious.

          I don’t see the point in the subsequent conversation, because everything is clear already. Good luck to you! hi
    2. tomket
      tomket April 17 2013 13: 31 New
      -3
      do not forget by the way to add that the Slavs from Sirius arrived)))))))
  • alebor
    alebor April 17 2013 10: 56 New
    0
    The Russian people and the language and spiritual and material culture is a Slavic people. There can be no doubt about it. And it’s rather strange to deduce kinship with Iranian-speaking Scythians on the sole ground that the latter once lived on the territory of southern Russia. How many people lived there for the long history of mankind! Why not go deeper into history even further and not talk about kinship with Cro-Magnons, who, according to the data of modern paleontology, began to populate Europe 40 thousands of years ago? Better yet, for those first homo sapiens that once appeared in Africa? (or according to another, alternative version to Adam and Eve). Or even bring the idea to the point of absurdity and take our ancestors from the oldest unicellular organisms that arose in the primary ocean (according to science) a few billion years ago.
  • Amur
    Amur April 17 2013 11: 13 New
    +1
    Article offset!
  • Gorchakov
    Gorchakov April 17 2013 11: 49 New
    +5
    The history of Russia can be studied and studied ... The main thing is not to become like and not go on about those whose history is limited to five hundred years ...
  • SEM
    SEM April 17 2013 13: 21 New
    +3
    GUYS - WE ARE RUSSIAN, GOD WITH US IS MOST IMPORTANT !!!
  • Vtel
    Vtel April 17 2013 15: 20 New
    0
    There is no data at the disposal of historical science that would give the right to speak with confidence not only about the identity of the Scythians and Slavs, but also about the presence of Slavs among the Scythians, about the spread of the original Slavic settlement in the southern steppes of Russia. Linguistic data reveals Iranianism of the Scythians, or at least the presence of Iranian tribes among them.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 17 2013 15: 36 New
      +2
      Funny drawing. Are horses a Ferghana breed?
      But in general - there is nothing ridiculous than a heavily armed rider on a horse without stirrups. lol
  • Rrv
    Rrv April 17 2013 15: 43 New
    0
    "The genome of Russians" adonaris.livejournal.com/252564.html

    "Russian gene pool on the Russian plain" drfaust-spb.livejournal.com/20473.html