Military Review

Why is a shale gas extraction agreement classified?

66
Why is a shale gas extraction agreement classified?Numerous attempts by journalists to officially obtain from the Government of Ukraine the text of the Agreement between Ukraine and Shell and Nadra Yuzovskaya companies signed on 24 in January of 2013 in Davos about sharing production from shale gas in the Yuzovsky area has not yet been crowned with success. It turned out that the text is “classified” in order not to damage the negotiations being conducted with Chevron about the production of shale gas in the Oleskaya gas area. Nevertheless, literally the other day, the text of the Agreement, unknown in what ways, appeared on the Internet ... [1]


"We do not violate the laws"

It was not for nothing that we mentioned the “secrecy” of the Agreement with Shell: this fact itself is already a violation of the law of Ukraine “On access to public information”, since this Agreement is a document of great public importance. If only because it concerns the placement of environmentally unsafe production in the most densely populated region of Ukraine. However, environmental risks are a separate topic, which we will not discuss here. We are interested in the "weirdness" of the document itself.

Unsubscribing to journalists' requests that “secrecy” is connected with ongoing negotiations with another investor, Ukrainian officials, to put it mildly, were deceptive: article 33.3 reads: “The term of confidentiality. Without limitation on the use and disclosure of information contained in any other agreement, restrictions on the use and disclosure of confidential information are agreed by the parties in this 33 article, are valid for the duration of the Agreement and terminate upon expiration of 5 (five) years after or termination of this Agreement. ”

The notion of “confidential information”, specified in Article 1, includes all data on the selected Shell site, any data on the terms of the Agreement and the activities of the parties on its implementation, any discussions and decisions of the authorized state body responsible for cooperation with Shell. , the content and status of any budget or work program for each specific gas production section, all documents, data, information containing information on the work of Shell in its designated area. Including the results that the company will achieve. Well, since the aforementioned “authorized state body” is also responsible for making decisions in the event of a threat to life, health and the environment, it will not even have the right to inform people about this threat without disclosing information classified as “confidential”.

What the Ukrainian negotiators representing the state thought in preparing this Agreement is unknown. Nevertheless, they simply lied when they said that the state, signing the document, guarantees that “... the conclusion, transfer and execution of this Agreement does not violate any provisions ... of any Ukrainian legislation or regulations” (Article 29.1 (iii) (c)). They lied because such secrecy is in flagrant contradiction, as has already been said, to the law of Ukraine "On access to public information."

"Free of charge, which means a gift"

The desire for freebies comes from all the cracks of the Agreement. The freebie for the investor, the Ukrainian company Nadra Yuzovsk, is that this company does not invest its own funds, while having a share in 50% (article 2.4). A foreign investor (!) Pays for the Ukrainian investor: “4.12.1. According to the provisions of article 4.5, “A foreign investor will finance at an interest rate of 0% (zero percent) Nadra Yuzovskaya’s participation in oil and gas activities during the initial geological exploration period, which is provided for by the Initial Geological Exploration Program outside of any area development. "

The same applies to payments to investors to the state related to the start of various phases of work: “4.12.4. According to the provisions of 4.12.2 and 4.12.3, “a foreign investor will also finance Nadra Yuzovskaya’s participation interest on bonuses listed in 4.11, 5.7 and 5.8, and such costs are costs that are reimbursed by a foreign investor”. To the question, what is so fond of a well-known Ukrainian company that perfectly knows how to count money to British oil workers from Shell, we suggest searching for an answer yourself.

Free 4 million dollars for obtaining special permits for geological exploration and 5 million for using data gathering dust around the contract area gets the state. Then free bonuses are added to them: 25 million for signing the Agreement, 25 million for receiving the first gas, 50 million for starting the first development, 100 million for reaching the peak level of development (at least 20 billion cubic meters of gas per year). During the first year of the Agreement - 2 million as social benefits, in subsequent years - according to 3 million plus half a percent of the annual investment budget. One and a half million grants to Ukrainian universities for studying unconventional gas production methods. Not counting the real estate and technology, which is transferred to the state, after the need for a mining company has disappeared.

And, of course, free gas (from 40 to 60% depending on the costs of investors), remaining after gas extraction costs and bonuses paid by investors, as well as other, other, other… are compensated ...

Customs gives good

If someone thinks that Ukraine will receive all these cakes from the Anglo-Saxons only for the sake of it, he will be deeply mistaken. Philanthropy the British never sinned. In exchange for bonuses (which, we recall, are reimbursed to the British by selling the produced gas), social contributions, grants and the need to make payment for the Ukrainian investor, Shell receives truly fantastic conditions for its business in Ukraine. First of all, both she and Nadra Yuzovska will not pay any taxes for fifty years, except for VAT, income tax and fees for the use of subsoil (article 28.1), except for taxes and fees charged on salaries to employees. Both companies are exempt from any other payments: “28.2.2. ... each of the investing companies within the scope of activities related to the execution of this Agreement will not be subject to taxation for land, rent for gas produced, duty, environmental tax, special use water charge, or target premium to the current tariff natural gas for consumers of all forms of ownership, fees for compulsory state pension insurance, including, among others, fees that are incurred when buying or selling foreign currency from mobile services oh communication, in the acquisition of real estate and transfer of ownership of cars. "

Moreover, taxes paid are not taxed on a general basis, but at reduced rates. For example, income tax will be charged in the amount of not 19, but 16% (article 28.5.17). Moreover, even if sometime later the tax rate rises for the whole of Ukraine, for our investors it will remain at the same level. Or go down with a general decline (article 28.4). According to the 28.6.1 article, the VAT for both investors will not be able to exceed 17% instead of the current 20%, even if the legislative base ever changes and all Ukrainian enterprises start paying more. But in the event of a delay in VAT refunds, the state of Ukraine will pay investors of shale gas production a penalty at the rate of 120% of the National Bank's discount rate (article 28.6.13). And indeed: “23.2.2. Any changes or additions to the legislation of Ukraine and regulations that are made after the date of entry into force of the Agreement [Dati Nabuttya Chinnost] that affect the position of the investing company or the position of the operator, including their expected economic benefits under this Agreement, do not apply to such a company as an investor or operator. " With the proviso that these changes do not improve the business environment of Nadra Yuzovskaya and Shell.

Both investors and the operator, which also acts as Shell, are not subject to any regulations and restrictions regarding foreign exchange and foreign trade operations: “22.2. The state guarantees that, starting from the date of commencement and throughout the entire period of this Agreement, investors-companies are not subject to any prohibitions or restrictions stipulated by the legislation of Ukraine and normative acts. ” Including - stipulated by the legislation for control over advance payments to foreign suppliers. Payment of services for large sums will also be without mandatory state expertise.

And the “sweetest” benefit for gas shale gas producers and investors is the complete absence of customs duties on imported and exported goods based on the 17.5 (j), (p), (q) articles. And the 28.6.17 article does extend this mode to any company, at least somehow “tied” to the companies listed in the Agreement, when it comes to cases of “importation by an investing company, operator, legal entity or non-resident contractor the territory of Ukraine of goods, including equipment, equipment, stocks, vehicles, spare parts and any other goods, including for the purposes of assembly, adjustment, testing, intended for use in the framework of oil and gas activities nosti ".

Do I have to tell you that now someone who has the right to trade imported goods will not have to arrange for luxury convertibles as humanitarian aid during transportation across the border?

The list of “interesting” provisions of the “secret” Agreement on the extraction of shale gas in Ukraine is not exhausted. Therefore, the continuation of his analysis will certainly follow and, we dare to assure, it will be no less interesting. However, even what has already been said is enough to understand: the reasons for the “secret” of the Agreement between the British and Ukrainian negotiators were plenty.

(1) https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lz0spaicbks9kpg/HP9yRaeIMh

The text of the articles of the Agreement between Ukraine and Shell and Nadra Yuzovskaya on production sharing of shale gas production is translated from Ukrainian.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.fondsk.ru/
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  1. Apollo
    Apollo April 16 2013 10: 02 New
    27
    regarding the title and content of the article.

    why is it secret, because it is beneficial for the insolent and obese authorities?! By the way, this applies not only to Ukraine but also to other post-Soviet countries, in particular the republic I represent.
    1. Canep
      Canep April 16 2013 10: 05 New
      11
      I completely agree, it was classified not from competitors, but from consumers and people.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 16 2013 10: 35 New
        +7
        Quote: Canep
        I completely agree, it was classified not from competitors, but from consumers and people.

        Was there gas gentlemen laughing
        1. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg April 16 2013 17: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Was there gas gentlemen laughing


          Will I sell my homeland wholesale and retail?
      2. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov April 16 2013 14: 26 New
        -1
        "not classified from competitors, but from consumers and the people." In vain you are so ganged up against the Ukrainian authorities, ours also secret a lot of things.
        e.g. reserve fund
        http://www.urtels.ru/analitic?n_id=3032
        (the source is not very, but others do not write about it)
        emergency situation
        http://news.rambler.ru/15129826/
        or amount of oil
        "Deputy Director of INEI RAS Vyacheslav Kulagin said on June 16, 2010 in an interview with the newspaper" Vzglyad "that in Russia the data on oil reserves are classified (a state secret), and according to the latest report of British Petroleum (BP), oil reserves in Russia amount to 10,2 billion tons, which is enough for 20 years and three months. At the same time, he clarified that BP is criticized for the incorrectness of data on Russia. [6] "
        it’s just easier to steer people and cut loot. The less you know the better you sleep!
    2. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 16 2013 10: 08 New
      -4
      Quote: Apollon
      particular republic which I represent

      Yes, it was not without reason that a long time ago the Neftchi chant was - Alverchi! laughing
      1. Apollo
        Apollo April 16 2013 10: 13 New
        +7
        Quote: Hedgehog
        Yes, for good reason


        here we are discussing not a football team but the bowels of the country. For flood minus laughing

        PSYou are here on the forum who are you representing?! Judging by the US avatar, judging by your flag of the Russian Federation. So you first decide, finally.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 16 2013 10: 37 New
          +6
          Quote: Apollon
          ! Judging by the avatar of the United States, judging by your flag of the Russian Federation. So you first decide, finally.

          Apollo hello! You rolled 500 grams belay Take a closer look at the avatar, there are three fingers of an American chicken against the background of the flag.
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 17 2013 04: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Take a closer look at the avatar, there are three fingers of an American chicken against the background of the flag.

            These three fingers are about asphalt wassat Hi Sasha hi
          2. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 17 2013 04: 24 New
            +3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            ! You rolled 500 grams

            He does not protect his health sad 500 grams and without us? am laughing
        2. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak April 16 2013 10: 54 New
          +2
          Take a closer look at the avatar. And for good reason I mentioned the chants of the fans. She clearly shows who is who. If not primitively tied to the team. And minus, then that's what I need.
          Quote: Apollon
          profitably insolent and fattening power
          These are your words.
        3. ed65b
          ed65b April 16 2013 14: 36 New
          0
          He is an eagle))))
        4. alexng
          alexng April 16 2013 15: 56 New
          +2
          Hi Apollon! hi
          Do not pay attention to the flood.
          Like the balalaika, the troll has only three strings stretched on Russian-speaking resources: stupidity, nonsense and nihilism. crying
        5. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 April 17 2013 04: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: Apollon
          ! Judging by the avatar of the United States, judging by your flag of the Russian Federation. So you first decide, finally.

          Night blindness warmed by the best Kentucky whiskey! Where can he decide wassat
    3. Nevsky
      Nevsky April 16 2013 10: 16 New
      +4
      And it is in my country recourse
    4. Kaa
      Kaa April 16 2013 10: 29 New
      11
      Quote: Apollon
      why is it secret because it is beneficial to the insolent and obese power?
      This is a huge "soap bubble", suitable only for cuts and kickbacks.
      "The production of shale gas in Ukraine is not able to solve the issue of energy independence of the country, but it can create economic and environmental problems. This opinion was expressed in an interview to the Gorshenin Institute by the deputy scientific and technical center" Psyche "Gennady Ryabtsev due to the high population density in our country the development of shale gas deposits, which have a low concentration and occupy large areas, will be limited and therefore ineffective. Among the reasons that create obstacles to the production of shale gas in Ukraine, Ryabtsev also named: insufficient knowledge of deposits in Ukraine; great depths (on average, 2-3 times deeper than in the United States) and significant gas areas (up to 12 thousand sq. km); the need to drill a large number of wells (50-100 times more than for traditional gas), the cost of which is 2-4 times higher than usual; the need to attract significant investment for 30 years or more; the need to find original technical solutions for each layer. At the same time, Ryabtsev is confident that the production of shale gas in other European countries is nothing more than a fantasy.“Even according to the most optimistic forecasts, the volumes of production of all types of unconventional gas in Europe by 2030 will not exceed 40 billion cubic meters. m., ”he said, noting that shale gas production is“ a purely American phenomenon ” “Shale gas production is associated with severe environmental restrictions. The decrease in pressure in the gas-bearing strata gradually leads to a redistribution of stresses in them, movements and even man-made earthquakes of magnitude 2-3 points. A sensitive issue of the possible environmental impact is the use of significant volumes of water and sand for hydraulic fracturing, without periodic implementation of which (from three to 10 per year) it is impossible to ensure the profitability of the project, ”the expert noted. However, the main environmental problem, according to Ryabtsev, is the possibility of contamination of aquifers with methane and used fluids. “Even a cleaned drilling fluid, in which only 1-2% is necessary for chemical additives, can poison groundwater, especially since only a third of the used water is raised from wells. Some components that are used to achieve the required viscosity of the fracturing fluid are carcinogenic, therefore their ingress into formations containing groundwater is dangerous. In addition, fractures from hydraulic fracturing can propagate upward, polluting groundwater with the injected fluid or contributing to the flow of methane into them. ”, - he noted. Ryabtsev stressed that France introduced criminal liability for hydraulic fracturing, a moratorium on hydraulic fracturing was introduced in the state of New York (USA), Lower Saxony and North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) http://delo.ua/ukraine / slancevyj-gaz-v-ukraine-dobyvat-ekonomicheski-necelesoobr

      azno-163740 /
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 16 2013 11: 25 New
        +2
        Quote: Kaa
        In addition, fractures from hydraulic fracturing can propagate upward, contaminating groundwater with the injected fluid or causing methane to enter it.


        Well, if the cracks reach the groundwater, it’s not capillaries, the gas will go up, and the water will go down. Those. there will be a desert.
        1. 755962
          755962 April 16 2013 15: 26 New
          +1
          Skeptics believe that the shale topic is artificially inflated, since it is economically unprofitable to extract shale gas. The cost of drilling a well at a gas shale field is $ 2,5-4 million, and its life is only about 10 years, while a well serves 30-40 years for gas production in the traditional way. In order to maintain gas production volumes at rapidly falling pressures in wells, it is necessary to drill them again and again, repeating the hydraulic fracturing operation. Director of the Russian Institute of National Energy Sergei Pravosudov believes that at market prices of $ 150 per thousand m ³ it is not profitable to produce shale gas:
          Before the crisis, when the price of imported LNG in the United States reached $ 500-600, this was normal, but today the benefit is in question.


          http://www.memoid.ru/node/Polemika_o_perspektivah_ispolzovaniya_slancevogo_gaza
      2. vadson
        vadson April 16 2013 15: 36 New
        +1
        Good afternoon, by and large, to me, and the vast majority of the population do not care about these games with gas upstairs, if only the stsuki would not spoil the environment and let go of the suckers on their exchanges. all this gas revolution is crap, in the sense that this is a momentary profit and there even though the grass does not grow. I agree with the opinion that the “world government” is the most oligarchic elite of the most, they have long been beaten to their civic origin, they don’t give a damn about the citizens of popuias, that you can poison someone if you can squeeze it out.
      3. Cynic
        Cynic April 16 2013 18: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Kaa
        This is a huge "soap bubble", suitable only for cuts and kickbacks.

        Well, as an option, it may be a cover for the appearance of gas from nowhere!
        He is shale! And do not tell us about the negative difference at the counters at the borders!
        For all we repeat again _ This is shale gas!
      4. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 April 17 2013 04: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: Kaa
        This is a huge "soap bubble", suitable only for cuts and kickbacks.

        Quote: Kaa
        Kaa

        Why are you wise hi But damn verbose laughing The first phrase would be enough request drinks
    5. datur
      datur April 16 2013 15: 21 New
      +4
      [quote = Apollon] regarding the title and content of the article.

      why is it secret because it is beneficial to the insolent and obese authorities?! By the way, this applies not only to Ukraine but also to other post-Soviet countries, in particular the republic that I represent MDA. US At one time there was also something similar - Sakhalin1 and Sakhalin2-- so there’s an agreement was signed so that we also had to those American compasses !! laughing until GDP comes !! and the mustache found the reason and took the oil from the Americans — they drove, drove, and wiped themselves !!! laughing
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka April 16 2013 16: 57 New
        +4
        Quote: datur
        until GDP comes !! and mustache found the reason

        Yes, the story was, frankly, fascinating. Well done, Putin! But the Ukrainians did not want to take into account our mistakes (although what mistakes? Betrayal!) Oh, he flies to them, poor fellows flirting with the West. Is it not obvious to them? they will spoil the fertile land ... That's for sure, as Yevdokimov used to say, “No mind!”
  2. Civil
    Civil April 16 2013 10: 05 New
    +5
    What will Ukraine not go to, if only to annoy Moscow ...
    1. Vladimir 70
      Vladimir 70 April 16 2013 10: 19 New
      10
      What will Ukraine not go to, if only to annoy Moscow ...
      Here you are wrong. Statements of energy independence are for the electorate. The whole trick is that the Ukrainian private company Nadra Yuzovskaya, without investing a dime, will make a profit. The usual theft of "talented" Ukrainian businessmen.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka April 16 2013 10: 55 New
        +4
        What kind of businessmen? Zhulikov. The main thing they have: loot, loot, loot, and to a bulb what methods are used for this.
      2. TRAFFIC
        TRAFFIC April 16 2013 11: 30 New
        +1
        Nadra Yuzovskaya is 90% owned by the state through Nadra Ukraine
      3. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 16 2013 11: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Vladimir 70
        The whole trick is that the Ukrainian private company Nadra Yuzovskaya, without investing a dime, will make a profit.

        The price of gas in the vehicle, in any case, is much lower than even the cost of this gas. But to whom from the authorities it is necessary in Ukraine. The main thing is that a couple of naughty lads from the top of the government get a good pullback, which is good anywhere. It will be fun when the next government goes to the same office for its pullback. And still get it. Due to the rich people of Ukraine.
    2. wax
      wax April 16 2013 10: 53 New
      +4
      Ukraine will annoy first of all to itself, and the consequences will affect children - this is where genocide is against its own future.
  3. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak April 16 2013 10: 10 New
    0
    But Russia, too, is faced with these production sharing agreements. It is good that most of these agreements were canceled.
  4. botur
    botur April 16 2013 10: 11 New
    +2
    Free cheese, only in a mousetrap. Another attempt to bite yourself for the fifth point.
  5. avt
    avt April 16 2013 10: 17 New
    +3
    Well classified request Yes, leave them alone, no matter what the child doesn’t play, even with shale gas, if only he doesn’t hang himself.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 16 2013 11: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: avt
      and leave them alone, no matter what the child is amusing, even with shale gas, if only he would not hang himself.

      I do not agree, dear! The whole population of Ukraine will be hanged, and if in the memory they fiercely oppose the production of this gas and they don’t give consent at the local councils (and they still ask for this consent), then in the military college and in Donbass in particular, nobody asks anything, but they start to do it insolently. And the author has not yet stressed that these foreign companies do not bear any RESPONSIBILITY for environmental violations !!!! But they have the right to take out the "remote fertile layer", and this is black soil !!! The fascists also once did this, now they are doing the same thing “peacefully”.
      1. avt
        avt April 16 2013 12: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        And if in the memory they fiercely oppose the production of this gas and they don’t give consent at the local councils (and they still ask for this consent), then in the VU and in Donbass in particular, nobody asks anything, but they start to do impudently.

        request Well, this is bad! But again, this is a consequence and not a reason. And our intervention, even at the level of comments in the media, will only spur and give an extra propaganda reason to accelerate the actions of swindlers. Look for a new Kovpak and save him, the rest will follow and there will be friends and associates.
      2. Skavron
        Skavron April 16 2013 14: 21 New
        +4
        Well, they’ve already started digging, they will drive the floodplain of the Seversky Donets and, accordingly, the water of the channel Seversky Donets-Donbass. I'm not talking about recreation areas and about ecotourism in those parts. Now we are waiting for the analysis of water samples from wells in villages. We record everything, if the composition changes, we will officially write to the Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources, and maybe to some international organization.
      3. Kaa
        Kaa April 16 2013 14: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        And if in the memory they fiercely oppose the production of this gas and do not give consent at the local councils (and this is still asked)
        Colleague, your information, alas, is outdated. They are already in parliament, and we need to think about money - “VO Liberty is ready to support the shale gas production project in Ukraine, if foreign investors give guarantees to the local population about the safety of the project, the MP said. , leader of Freedom VO Liberty Oleg Tyagnibok at a meeting with the European Business Association."We unequivocally support an independent energy program. First of all, independent of the Russian Federation. We are for the extraction of alternative energy sources. We are for increasing the production of our own gas and oil, including shale gas," Tyagnibok said. which is quoted by LIGABusinessInform correspondent. "They (foreign investors, - ed.) must guarantee that in the event of an environmental problem, the public will be able to stop the process," said the leader of Freedom.
        In addition, according to him, local authorities were suspended from the decision-making process regarding mining in their territory, which is also unlawful. “If we manage to agree on these points, then there will be support on our part (of Freedom, - ed.). Moreover, we understand the geopolitical importance of this project.. If not, then we will continue the dialogue to resolve this issue, "Tyagnibok said. As you know, VO Liberty announced its intention to appeal the decision of the Kharkiv Regional Council, which approved a draft agreement between Ukraine, Shell and Nedra Yuzovskaya LLC on the distribution of hydrocarbons that will be produced on Yuzovskaya Square. According to Svobodovites, Shell’s production of alternative gas using hydraulic fracturing using chemicals can lead to pollution of aquifers and loss of underground drinking water.http: //news.liga.net/news/economics/810936-svoboda_gotova_smiritsya_s_dobychey_
        slantsevogo_gaza_no_s_usloviem.htm #
        1. Skavron
          Skavron April 16 2013 14: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Kaa
          We are for the extraction of alternative energy sources.

          I wrote below about the alternative. At least in heating.
  6. xmike
    xmike April 16 2013 10: 18 New
    0
    As usual, bureaucrats in "silk" people in "bags"
    They will enter the "customs" union then and expel this shell.
    1. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: xmike
      where and we will expel this shell.

      It’s too late to drink “Borjomi” when the stomach has fallen off. Imagine how many MILLENNIUM it takes for a black earth to form? Above, Egoza wrote that they would begin to take it out. It’s a complete disaster! There are no lands like this all over the world! Well, we’ll expel Shell and so what? Priceless land will be irretrievably lost FOREVER !!!!!!!!!
  7. bubla5
    bubla5 April 16 2013 10: 19 New
    +1
    All this is still bullshit, oil shale at this stage cannot compete with oil and gas, unless it subsidizes this production, so as not to depend on the listed energy sources
  8. sanyabasik
    sanyabasik April 16 2013 10: 23 New
    -9
    But in Russia everyone is so open to the people, everything is so transparent .. The truth is only to those who in very pink glasses.
  9. zao74
    zao74 April 16 2013 10: 27 New
    +2
    Again the West, in conjunction with the corrupt government of Ukraine, bends (and hard) brotherly people to us. How long, brothers? Maybe you need another "color" revolution?
  10. AndreyAB
    AndreyAB April 16 2013 10: 29 New
    +1
    It’s like the pans of Rydnu nenka began to be sold on the sly, and the example of English altruism is the former colonies of England, if you launch the British into your territory and then you can’t drive them out. working in the wrong direction for every minute profit, instead of the long-term development of industry and the economy.
  11. knn54
    knn54 April 16 2013 10: 31 New
    +8
    And the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many of the people died of the waters, because they became bitter.
    Disaster according to John the Theologian
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic April 16 2013 21: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: knn54
      And the third part of the waters became wormwood, and many of the people died of the waters, because they became bitter.


      The difference between shale gas and traditional gas is that to obtain it, hundreds of drilling rigs must work simultaneously. Only in this case, the cost of its production will be acceptable. So far, only Americans have achieved relative success, and in Europe, none of these projects have gone. Now Ukraine should become a torture training ground ... Imagine hundreds of wells at the same time, using the horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing method (in fact, a small earthquake) when, due to the characteristics of the oil shale, production at each mine is reduced by almost three times a year. In order to be cost-effective, this is necessary to drill more and more new wells ... In such a way, in five years, the Donetsk region can be turned into a desert for the sake of oil shale suitable only as fuel but absolutely unsuitable for the chemical industry;

  12. Doktor-2
    Doktor-2 April 16 2013 10: 41 New
    +1
    That's why they secret that the current prime minister should not follow in the footsteps of the previous one, which paid for the previous gas contract, which was supposedly disadvantageous to the people of Ukraine.
  13. zambo
    zambo April 16 2013 10: 41 New
    +1
    The next economic obscurantism is "non-self" ...
  14. Kolyan 2
    Kolyan 2 April 16 2013 10: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: sanyabasik
    But in Russia everyone is so open to the people, everything is so transparent .. The truth is only to those who in very pink glasses.


    Why, when discussing Russia, its negativity, no one bumps into anyone, but how something is being discussed in the former republics, the smallest of the comments of the representatives living there can be read "YOU WILL LOOK FOR YOURSELF, YOU ARE MORE STEALED". Gentlemen, we discuss problems here, speak out and do not need these mythical insults that Russia, the Russians are always ready to give out their imperial ambitions. You can’t adequately perceive the statements, it’s better not to go to the site. I hope sane people understood me. hi
  15. Tartary
    Tartary April 16 2013 10: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Kolyan 2
    Another economic obscurantism is "independent" ..

    The Britons put another "hook" in the form of economic ties and the placement of joint production, and the Ukrainian leadership does not see the "Bad Boy" in itself, and the people silently blow ...
    If all of a sudden, when the moment comes for the unification of fraternal peoples economically and territorially, then indemnities will be requested - Mama Do not Cry ...
    Another crack for the final split of Russia and Ukraine ... The gulf widens right before our eyes.
    All the people of the former USSR are just statisticians ...
    1. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Tartary
      If suddenly when the moment comes for the unification of fraternal peoples

      This is believed less and less, alas ... Here's a look objectively, is it possible today to see at least some prerequisites for unification? On the contrary, the farther, the rhetoric and actions are steeper and more irreconcilable.
      1. Tartary
        Tartary April 18 2013 05: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Tverichanka
        Here is a look objectively, is it possible today to see at least some prerequisites for unification?

        There are not enough objective prerequisites today, but subjective ones - at least a rowing bucket ...
        I have not been here for a while, so I reply late.
  16. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek April 16 2013 11: 05 New
    +2
    Well, the Ukrainians still have to shred the ecology and everything - the EU is their home, because we definitely won’t need to dump
    1. eretik
      eretik April 16 2013 11: 21 New
      +2
      Yeah, the EU is waiting for them. Why, they’re not littering the ecology so that we can spend money on cleaning up later. We’ll dump the money on cleaning and clean up after the ghouls.
  17. ATATA
    ATATA April 16 2013 11: 07 New
    +2
    The shale gas deal with Shell is a death sentence to Ukraine.
    I think this is the situation.
    The sale of shale gas in the United States goes for $ 200 and this is on the verge of profitability.
    So if they start mining Ukrainian, then against the backdrop of Gazprom's $ 400, these friends will have a profit in Ukraine and Europe. To tell the truth, up to the exclusion of Gazprom from Europe or a very significant reduction in market share, or a sharp drop in prices. No option is acceptable for Russia.
    This threatens Russia and, correspondingly, Gazprom with uncountable financial troubles.
    Accordingly, the task of Russia to prevent at any price implementation of this project.
    To solve this problem guaranteed necessary establish political, economic and administrative control over this territory.
    There is simply no other guaranteed way out, since after agreeing with the current government of Ukraine, a new one can then change your mind.
    So either Russia loses energy foreign exchange earnings from Europe, or joins Ukraine in the very near future.
    I think the Kremlin and Gazprom are not stupid, and I consider these options very well.
    Huge grandmas are at stake!
    Hello! hi
    1. Zopuhhh
      Zopuhhh April 16 2013 11: 17 New
      +1
      Do not specify how profitable American projects are?

      Instead of gas, we can start supplying water ...
      1. ATATA
        ATATA April 16 2013 11: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Zopuhhh
        Do not specify how profitable American projects are?

        In the USA, it is a meager sale and production costs in the region of $ 200 for 1 m000. Due to competition there is minimal walrus. But in Europe the situation is different! Here, gas costs under $ 3.
        Those. here their profit will be substantial if the price does not fall, and this is not beneficial primarily to Russia.
        So either they (the Ukrainian government) will refuse to produce oil shale, or there (in Ukraine) there will be a color revolution, only the customer will be in the east. laughing
        1. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: ATATA
          to the region of $ 200 for 1 m000.

          Yes, but it needs almost three times more natural, because heat transfer is less. And where is the benefit? And the climate in Europe is far from changing for the better. It’s getting cold.
    2. eretik
      eretik April 16 2013 11: 27 New
      +3
      They don’t threaten us with anything, $ 200 is a fairy tale. They swelled $ 10 billion more than they got, what profitability were they talking about? It was another sucker throw, those companies that started it either sell their assets or are on the verge of bankruptcy.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA April 16 2013 11: 40 New
        +2
        Quote: eretik
        They don’t threaten us with anything, $ 200 is a fairy tale. They swelled 10 mln. $ More than they received, what profitability are we talking about?

        For them, the goal is not profit, for them 10 yards in this case, it's like two fingers on the asphalt.
        The goal is to strike at Russia and there are 10 yards, these are mere pennies.
        After all, Russia's losses, only economic, not counting geopolitical, will be many times greater.
        1. Tverichanka
          Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 29 New
          +1
          Quote: ATATA
          After all, the loss of Russia,

          They won’t !!!! Bet on it, twitch, twitch, and sit on that ass. And in the very near future.
    3. Skavron
      Skavron April 16 2013 14: 22 New
      -1
      ATATA ... well, that's all you can’t wait to occupy Ukraine)
      1. ATATA
        ATATA April 16 2013 14: 37 New
        +3
        Quote: Skavron
        ATATA ... well, that's all you can’t wait to occupy Ukraine)

        With all due respect, release. hi
        1. Skavron
          Skavron April 16 2013 14: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: ATATA
          to free.

          From whom? ))))
    4. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: ATATA
      There is simply no other guaranteed solution.

      Oh, something painfully dark you drew a picture, it’s hard to agree with it. Firstly, shale gas is practically not suitable for the chemical industry (this is not only heating), which means that nobody will ever refuse natural gas. Secondly, there is China, which will transship any volumes of gas and will only be glad if supplies increase (I hope you know about the agreements signed during the recent visit?). Thirdly, Europe has invested and is investing a lot of money in the construction of "flows". Do you think they didn’t calculate all the layouts? But they’re building it! So they need it too. So we won’t pump it! In the end, if no one takes our gas, we will use it for our needs for free and we will win the competition (the last sentence is almost joke).
  18. Curculum
    Curculum April 16 2013 11: 23 New
    +1
    A quick glance - an unqualified translation is clearly traced from "aglitsky" made by some member of the "diaspora", with spelling violation of phrases, individual words, designations and various names. For example: since when on "mov" the indication of the type of currency is written with a capital letter?
    From practice: at a similar level, agreements, contracts and contracts are drawn up by Professionals (namely with a capital letter), and not by students of an economic technical school. Accordingly, knowledge of the grammar of languages ​​of such documents is mandatory. In the presented "agreement" - solid blunders. Therefore, I doubt the legitimacy of the submitted.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 16 2013 13: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: Kurkul
      From practice: at a similar level, agreements, contracts and contracts are drawn up by Professionals (namely with a capital letter),

      Quote: Kurkul
      In the presented "agreement" - solid blunders

      Oh! Dear Kurkul! We have long been Professionals, then no! Especially in the current government! If a deputy with a higher education makes 8 (!!!! eight) grammatical errors in his own statement .... As for the knowledge of grammar, they remade the mov so that the hair stands on end! There is only one principle - anyhow, not like in Russia. If now children are taught - meta, palta, mapa, utility - then there are all sorts of "little things" .... and the kind of currency with a capital letter is from great admiration! laughing
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka April 16 2013 17: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: Egoza
        altA, mapa, hospitality

        About “paltu” Are you serious? I'm shocked, dear edition!
        1. Egoza
          Egoza April 16 2013 20: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Tverichanka
          About "paltu" Are you serious?

          Fair! I hear it — it makes me laugh — I remember the old film about Kotovsky. There, a cafe in Odessa of pre-revolutionary times was shown. And the "local" couplets sang:
          "Mom mom!
          What are we going to do?
          Winter is coming!
          Chiba doesn't have a warm handkerchief!
          Mine doesn't have a warm finger! "
          I remembered it so well, because at school everyone laughed at it, and now our children say just like that !!!!! am
      2. Curculum
        Curculum April 16 2013 23: 47 New
        0
        Quote: Egoza
        We have long been no Professionals! Especially in the current government!

        If the submitted "project" (you would have already written "project") is not fake, then, unfortunately, I agree with you, dear Egoza.
  19. pensioner
    pensioner April 16 2013 11: 34 New
    +1
    [quote = Fidget] But they have the right to take out the "remote fertile layer", and this is black soil !!! The Nazis also once did this, now they are doing the same thing "peacefully." [/ Quot
    If so, then this is just disgusting. Ukraine! Wake up !. At least the sizes save us from the universal mess, and you will quickly end. I don’t croak. It’s just a pity for you who are not good.
    1. stroporez
      stroporez April 16 2013 13: 07 New
      +1
      I think that Ukraine will feel faster than others what the "western" friends are worth ........
  20. Kars
    Kars April 16 2013 11: 35 New
    +5
    I read, in principle, more or less normal.
    the only thing is that there is no mention of environmental control over production.

    Regarding secrecy, --- by the way, who knows exactly the price of gas transit of the Russian Federation through the northern stream?
    1. Skavron
      Skavron April 16 2013 14: 43 New
      +2
      Kars harm from these towers will be undoubted. Only under one tower it is necessary to alienate 2 hectares of land + transportation routes. And hundreds of towers are only planned in the Donbass. It’s good if it’s a desert, and there is a river floodplain, i.e. all chemistry will go straight into the channel, and then into the canal supplying Donetsk region with water.
      1. Kars
        Kars April 16 2013 15: 02 New
        0
        Quote: Skavron
        only under one tower it is necessary to alienate 2 hectares of land + pu

        When do coal mines mine land they alienate? When is open-pit iron ore mined?

        I generally live in Zaporozhye, so I know about the harm to the environment by hearsay.
        And he studied in Donetsk,
        Quote: Skavron
        and there is a river floodplain

        what kind of rivers? like already built some towers?
        We should look at the landscapes where Shell is already producing shale gas, the growth curves of diseases in those areas. There are few information, and the propaganda machine is working at full capacity.
        1. Skavron
          Skavron April 16 2013 15: 11 New
          +2
          - Coal mines do not use complex reagents in bulk quantities. Careers too.
          Seversky Donets River. v. Yeremovka, v. Makatikha
          - My comment about water testing is higher. And you can know where to grow the disease growth curves?))) How many years does it take to poison people so that diseases in the region become chronic.
          Infa little agree. It's just that my ex is a geologist. She talked a lot about shale and about modern development too. It really does hurt.
          Although we have a familiar person to everything. Here Zaporozhye or Gorlovsky Styrene smokes, for example, they are used to ...
          Any industry is a priori harmful, but I don’t want the corners left over not corrupted .. by the corners of the Donbass industrial production, which is already so saturated.
          1. TRAFFIC
            TRAFFIC April 16 2013 16: 48 New
            +1
            Fracturing technologies are used all over the world, and not just for shale gas production, including in Russia, so I think this is a public relations campaign for shale gas opponents. In the United States, coal miners, who have seriously lost their income due to this technology, also normally fear, but there are not enough facts. : laughing
          2. Kars
            Kars April 16 2013 17: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Skavron
            Coal mines do not use complex reagents in bulk quantities. Careers too.

            But at the same time, rocks are excavated, then water is pumped out of them so that failure would not have formed. And in one of them in Donetsk they even blew up a nuclear charge. Open pits give dust, etc.
            Quote: Skavron
            Seversky Donets River. v. Yeremovka, v. Makatikha

            Is it clean now? And if my memory doesn’t change me, then the reagent injection goes to a depth of more than km.
            Quote: Skavron
            Do you know where to go about the growth curves of diseases?)

            Where to?
            Quote: Skavron
            This is how many years it is necessary to poison people so that diseases in the region become chronic.

            how many years has Shell been producing shale gas?
            Quote: Skavron
            not zag..mi corners and so oversaturated industrial production of Donbass.

            And there are such corners and exactly where are you going to produce gas?
            All the same, it’s more interesting to me that real photos are something invisible.
            as well as what harm will be done to the environment if gas is replaced by coal at the CHP.
            Therefore, while there is no reason to say reliable data, I don’t doubt that those who can lose money will drive chernukha.
            1. Skavron
              Skavron April 16 2013 17: 39 New
              0
              - What does coal industry have to do with shale gas?
              -clean. Take an interest in the topic "groundwater"
              -by shell ... google with a video review of the shale gas extraction site in the usa. you won’t have any questions after that.
              -There are such corners, called the village. real photos will be drilled as soon as they begin to drill, but for now only the land and areas of the first drilling samples have been approved. there will be many ... very many ... much larger in area than under the quarry.
              if at CHPP gas is replaced by coal ... damn damn damn ... use the "heat pump" technology for heating and generally no gas or gas is needed. And for industrial production, in my opinion, not shale gas is needed. Although here I could be wrong.
  21. pensioner
    pensioner April 16 2013 11: 43 New
    0
    I have long wanted to ask the following question to our Ukrainian friends. That says a lot about the Ukrainian GTS. And what is it today? Particularly interested in the linear part. Defects composition, depths, inspection period, technical specifications, repairs, accidents, incidents. Does someone have information (at least on one site)? I know about the state of Champions League from Kursk to Sumy. If the other is the same ....
  22. Alekseev
    Alekseev April 16 2013 12: 52 New
    +2
    Everyone knows everything.
    Shale gas is several times more expensive, at cost, of natural gas; its environmentally friendly production is dangerous, etc.
    But the United States, despite this, is trying to increase its production.
    Why?
    Yes, they want to reduce their volatility and “lower” potential competitors.
    Increase your influence on them. For this, billions of "extra" dollars are being spent.
    So far, the US can afford it.
    That’s the whole “shale revolution”.
    It would have been much easier for the Ukrainian population if those in power had established cooperation with Russia.
    But for those in power themselves, this is apparently not profitable.
  23. tungus
    tungus April 16 2013 13: 10 New
    +6
    Again this slate ... And after all there are still people who are being waged for this scam. Some news on the topic.
    1 gas in the United States is again confidently trading above 4 dollars per million BTUs (more than 145 dollars per 1000 cubes), rising from a minimum of 2 dollars.
    2-The number of gas drilling units fell below the psychologically important mark in 400 units. In 2009, there were 1600.
    Well, the third news - production in the 48 "lower" states (that is, without Alaska) - fell to a ten-month low.
    So, the price of gas in the US has doubled. But even current quotes do not always cover production costs. Gas in shale wells ends very quickly. The work of one well is less than a year. All the best sites have already been used. The bubble is deflated.
    The question arises, why should Ukraine get into this scam, in which it is simply used and thrown? No, I understand, personal accounts of citizens of superiors are a holy thing.
    But is everything really so neglected that the country's leadership is ready to kill the ecology of its country for a few lyamy greens in its pocket? At the same time, they also redo their laws for some American companies (which is generally a loss of sovereignty). It seems that Ukraine has no leadership, but there is some kind of gop company.
    1. Tverichanka
      Tverichanka April 16 2013 18: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: tungus
      the fact that Ukraine has no leadership, but there is some kind of gop company

      Absolutely conveyed the feelings of power in Ukraine! There is no intelligible policy on any issue, continuous shy from side to side. The impression that they themselves do not really know what they want. Well, to be healthy and rich is understandable! And how to achieve this here is a complete vacuum.
  24. Vtel
    Vtel April 16 2013 13: 31 New
    +2
    Well, then sho "our" crooks can’t agree with the price of gas, which is independent, it’s understandable - its own little egg is closer to the nose. It’s a pity that ordinary fraternal people (minus Bandera and crooks) suffer, swell on women, they still spend the Jeltmen period in their “dear” huts, and in the next-door “poor” Julia rolled up on the common house, and themselves shales eat up - well this is not a solid pan.
  25. ed65b
    ed65b April 16 2013 13: 36 New
    +1
    What bothers me the most and I would say the environmental component of the consequences of this mining is scary. Chemistry is chemistry and how it behaves when it enters aquifers and, in general, total contamination of the earth with an unclear perspective. Miller is right when he says that shale is a soap bubble. Well, kill me. I don’t believe that the head of Gazprom is goofy, which isn’t good about oil shale and everything connected with it. The Americans are still being pounded by the ecology slate on the other side. bad people on tours went to see how an atomic bomb explodes, nevada zasr ..li. And officials in Ukraine simply fell for the loot "A good spoon for dinner" is their lunch "cow" and they milk it and there at least the grass does not grow there. There are no others, but those are already far.
  26. Skavron
    Skavron April 16 2013 14: 34 New
    +1
    Damn, got it with this gas.
    It would be better if they introduced the "heat pump" technology. There is no problem with electricity.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 16 2013 20: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Skavron
      There is no problem with electricity.

      Well, how is it not? All power lines are old! The wind will blow and how many settlements without light? And for the "heat pump" at its own expense will have to lay new lines! And here the "other" firms will give denyuzhku! angry
  27. slavik_gross
    slavik_gross April 16 2013 14: 50 New
    +1
    And then we live nearby. Yeah, where to run ...
  28. andrejwz
    andrejwz April 16 2013 16: 52 New
    0
    Numerous attempts by journalists to officially receive from the Government of Ukraine the text of the Agreement concluded between Ukraine and Shell and Nadra Yuzovskaya on January 24, 2013 in Davos on the production sharing from shale gas production in the Yuzovsky site have not yet been crowned with success.

    And where did you get the idea that this is an interstate agreement?
  29. UFO
    UFO April 17 2013 05: 45 New
    0
    Bl .... b! According to the principle "after us - at least a flood", "do not give a shit and fall asleep with roses", "we don’t live here," I read reviews of amers here, where they produce shale gas - you can’t live there! They make trash out of us - all of the "de ... mo" radioactive is being taken away, and in Ukraine there will be another Chernobyl zone. Not even sad - evil bursts! angry