Are Airborne Forces Needed in the Age of High Technology? On the 95th Anniversary of the Airborne Troops

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Are Airborne Forces Needed in the Age of High Technology? On the 95th Anniversary of the Airborne Troops

The Airborne Troops have always been the subject of special attention and pride. These troops are designed to solve the most difficult, responsible and often autonomous tasks deep behind enemy lines. They were not just “troops”; they were the embodiment of the idea of the Soviet soldier, capable of overcoming any obstacles and completing any task, no matter how impossible it seemed. It was these qualities that secured their status as the elite – “troops number one” in the hearts and minds of millions of Soviet citizens.

A great deal of credit for this goes to the legendary commander of the USSR Airborne Forces, Hero of the Soviet Union Vasily Filippovich Margelov, who paid great attention to what is called PR in the modern world. Several feature films were released by his order and under the direct supervision of Vasily Filippovich, which romanticized service in the Airborne Forces, the most famous of which is the action movie "In the Zone of Special Attention".



However, in recent years, debates have increasingly arisen on social networks and specialized forums about the necessity and relevance of the Airborne Forces in their current form. The debates sometimes reach the point of absurd accusations and insults to each other. People argue whether airborne troops are needed in the modern world, if such advanced means are available DefenseBut a similar question can be asked for any branch of the military: with the introduction of modern technologies, tactics, strategy and military doctrine have changed in all countries.

Modern technologies - this was already in the recent past. Once upon a time, the Soviet leadership, represented by comrade Khrushchev, became interested in rocketry. And off it went... Work on new systems in artillery were suspended in favor of missile technologies. Projects in the field aviation were closed under the influence of the emergence of new types of missile weapons. Experiments with missiles began in tank building. tanks. Missiles began to be actively introduced into fleet: on surface ships, artillery guns began to be replaced by missile systems, and submarines became more popular instead of battleships and aircraft carriers. To be fair, it must be said that the passion for missiles was a worldwide trend, and it was not only the Soviet leadership that suffered from it.

As for the debates about airborne troops, the problem is probably also that people who are far from the Airborne Forces do not quite correctly understand, and sometimes do not understand at all, the tactics of the Airborne Forces. The tactics of the Airborne Forces are a regular combined arms battle behind enemy lines.

What question most often begins a conversation about the airborne troops when a person who is far from the VDV starts it? "How many times have you jumped with a parachute?" The question is strange, because it is asked not to a parachutist, but to a paratrooper. Most people do not understand that a parachute is just a means of delivering personnel, one of the means.

My senior comrade, front-line paratrooper Vladimir Georgievich Anisimov, was part of a detachment of 120 people that operated in Crimea. The detachment was led to the peninsula by partisans along paths known to them. In Crimea, the paratroopers killed Wehrmacht and SS soldiers and officers who had come to rest, burned palaces where Nazis were housed, and helped the local population create partisan detachments. They also had the task of punishing those who greeted the Nazis on the peninsula with bread and salt.

The detachment accomplished its mission. Six people returned. In addition to the dead, there were wounded who were left with reliable people - local underground residents. Vladimir Georgievich met one of the wounded who were left behind in Gorky Park in 1975 at a traditional meeting of paratroopers. But if we follow the logic of the opponents of the airborne troops, then this detachment was not paratroopers at all: there was no parachute drop.

Or, recalling the large-scale airborne operation in December 1979 in Afghanistan, they claim: "There was no landing there." Incorrect: there was no parachute drop of troops, but there was a landing. Although it was initially planned to drop the second battalion of the 350th Guards Parachute Regiment, the situation changed, and already in the air the command was given: "Remove the parachutes."

Any landing operations are planned in the interests of the main forces, which are either attacking or defending at the front. This is the main aspect: landing operations are planned and carried out in the interests of the main forces! At the same time, the operations are planned not by the paratroopers themselves, but by the combined arms commanders. Planning is carried out by headquarters at a level higher than those in whose interests the operation will be carried out. The landing commanders, in turn, organize the conduct of the battle based on the tasks assigned to them.

This was the case in 1956 in Hungary, this was the case in 1968 in Czechoslovakia. This was the case in December 1979 during the execution of tasks in Afghanistan, in an operation developed by the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces. The 103rd Guards Airborne Division and units of the 345th Separate Guards Parachute Regiment landed on the airfields of Kabul and Bagram with a specific combat mission - a change of power in Kabul and the introduction of a combined arms army into Afghanistan. By the morning of December 28, the mission was accomplished. Three motorized rifle divisions from the Turkestan Military District, staffed by servicemen called up from the mobilization reserves of the Central Asian republics, occupied the designated locations in Kabul, Shindant, Kunduz and Herat. Then, according to the plan of the operation, the paratroopers were supposed to return to winter quarters, although this did not happen.

A little earlier, in February 1979, the 106th Guards Airborne Division was urgently transferred by military transport aviation from the Tula and Ryazan regions to Transbaikalia. At that time, an armed conflict began between Vietnam and China, and the Soviet leadership decided to conduct large-scale combined arms exercises in Mongolia, in areas bordering China, to demonstrate military power. The exercises involved a unit of airborne troops - the 106th Guards Airborne Division - with the goal of conducting a mass landing of personnel and equipment in the Gobi Desert, several kilometers from the Mongolian-Chinese border. And in August 1992, a reconnaissance company of the 51st Guards Parachute Regiment of the same division landed at the Kabul airport on three Il-76 aircraft and ensured the evacuation of the Russian embassy from besieged Kabul.

What other units, regiments, formations, besides the Airborne Forces, could cope with these tasks so effectively, and most importantly, promptly?

In recent decades, when many military conflicts occurred, including interethnic ones, the Airborne Forces units continued to successfully carry out their assigned tasks. They did not parachute; I repeat that the parachute is not the main method of delivering personnel to the place of military operations, but only one of them. The urgent transfer of regiments and divisions over fairly large distances made it possible to take decisive and effective measures to restore constitutional order.

During the Cold War, the world was divided into two blocs – NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Airborne divisions were located along the perimeter of the Soviet Union: their main goal when declaring war was to destabilize the enemy’s communications and logistics, which could have a significant impact on the course of military operations. These tasks were important and urgently needed in the conditions of confrontation between two world blocs.

In the center of Europe there was a huge group of Soviet troops - the GSVG with tank units and motorized rifle divisions. At the beginning of the war, this group was supposed to deal the enemy a powerful blow and, if necessary, reach the English Channel. But the troops cannot do this immediately: they need time to bring their units to combat readiness and move out to meet the enemy. Mobilization is underway in the country, and cadre regiments and divisions are being staffed. At this moment, airborne divisions are dropped into the enemy's rear with the task of cutting communications and disrupting the logistics of the enemy troops. The actions of the paratroopers are aimed at creating chaos and weakening the enemy's combat capability. Even if "Margelov's Falcons" managed to fulfill only half of what they were ordered to do, this would already be good. They bought time and made it possible to bring to combat readiness those units that were supposed to break through.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, the need for such large-scale operations disappeared: today, the Airborne Forces face completely new challenges. Modern conflicts require flexibility, mobility, and the ability to quickly adapt to changing conditions. Instead of large-scale operations behind the front lines, airborne troops can be used for pinpoint strikes, peacekeeping missions, or the fight against terrorism. Their mobility remains an important advantage, but their missions must be revised to take into account new realities. We should not forget about military theory: war is not only technology, but also morale, discipline, and personnel skills. Therefore, even with all the modern means, the Airborne Forces continue to create a unique symbiosis of fighting spirit and military training.

Discussions about the need for airborne forces in the modern world can and should be conducted taking into account new technologies and the changing nature of conflicts. However, it is important to conduct such discussions constructively and without emotion.
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  1. +2
    2 August 2025 06: 16
    "Are Airborne Forces needed in the era of high technology?"

    Without a doubt, the Airborne Forces are more relevant and needed than ever in our time, as demonstrated by the successful and heroic operation near Gostomel. The Airborne Forces are extremely needed even in the era of drone dominance in the sky to capture a bridgehead in the enemy's rear and hold it until the main forces arrive. The landing operation will cause panic and contribute to the disorganization of the enemy, because without physical control of the territory it is impossible to achieve victories, despite any technology and weapons. I congratulate the winged infantry on its 95th anniversary and wish you Victory over the enemy!
    1. + 15
      2 August 2025 09: 19
      Without a doubt, the Airborne Forces are more relevant and needed than ever in our time, as demonstrated by the successful and heroic operation near Gostomel.

      As for success, I personally wouldn't say so. If everything is so successful, why aren't the Airborne Forces used for their intended purpose after 2022? What's stopping them, for example, from landing troops on Slavyansk or Kramatorsk, and as you say: "to capture a bridgehead in the enemy's rear and hold it until the main forces arrive.", to introduce, as you said, panic and disorganization?
      1. +4
        2 August 2025 10: 41
        "What prevents, for example, from landing troops on Slavyansk or Kramatorsk and, as you say: "to capture a bridgehead in the enemy's rear and hold it?"

        Air supremacy has not been fully captured and air defense has not been suppressed, so in order to avoid high losses, the command is not setting such a task now. It is better to use the Airborne Forces in a combined arms operation with other units for deep envelopment of Banderite fortifications and their destruction, but when the enemy is completely defeated and demoralized, then the time will come for sea, river and air landings.
        1. + 15
          2 August 2025 11: 03
          Air supremacy has not been fully achieved and air defenses have not been suppressed.

          It is now better to use the Airborne Forces in a combined arms operation with other units

          I understand and know this. Then the question is why have a SEPARATE branch of the military with separate types of weapons. Maybe it is more logical to have such troops in large units that will be directly subordinate to them. The Airborne Forces have lost their significance just like the cavalry in their classic place on the battlefield.
          1. -12
            2 August 2025 11: 17
            "Then the question is why have a SEPARATE branch of the military with separate types of weapons?"

            Let's wait until the war is over and only after it is over we will make final conclusions on this issue.
            1. + 21
              2 August 2025 11: 51
              If we solve problems and draw conclusions AFTER the end of the war, and not during it, then the results of this war will be guaranteed to be far from desired.
              1. -10
                2 August 2025 12: 04
                Quote: UAZ 452
                If we solve problems and draw conclusions AFTER the end of the war, and not during it, then the results of this war will be guaranteed to be far from desired.

                Umm... you said here the other day that you once wore shoulder straps. It's one thing to change the tactics of using troops during combat operations, that's the norm. And it's quite another to begin a structural reorganization... the need for which, in general, is not yet obvious - the Airborne Forces are useful even in their current form.

                Quote: UAZ 452
                then the results of this war will be guaranteed to be far from desired

                Guaranteed by whom? By you? Your rank, position and education, excuse me?
                1. +5
                  2 August 2025 12: 10
                  Guaranteed by whom? By you? Your rank, position and education, excuse me?

                  By whom? By the enemy. And by your inability (unwillingness) to meet the requirements of the changing situation. And explain your position to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, who recently announced the reorganization of the Marine brigades into divisions. Nothing was said in his speech about this being planned only after the completion of the Second Military Operation.
                  And you will be questioning your wife. I do not apologize.
                  1. -11
                    2 August 2025 12: 16
                    Quote: UAZ 452
                    Quote: Paranoid62
                    Guaranteed by whom? By you?

                    By whom? By the enemy.

                    So you're speaking on behalf of the enemy here? That's funny.

                    Well, how do you know what the enemy can/cannot do - the question is superfluous. It is clear that there is no way.

                    Quote: UAZ 452
                    And explain your position to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, who recently announced the reorganization of the Marine Corps brigades into divisions.

                    Nooo... It's your prerogative to explain something to the Supreme Command. laughing

                    Quote: UAZ 452
                    And you will be questioning your wife. I do not apologize.

                    Excellent answer. I'll note that warehouse ensigns also "wore shoulder straps" Yes
                2. +2
                  3 August 2025 21: 58
                  Drawing conclusions does not only mean "changing the organizational structure", it primarily means changing the tactics of using troops. Which is what happened a priori, without your pedantry. The fact is that not a SINGLE airborne unit in the North Military District today fights as a classic airborne force, they all fight as infantry. Do you need any other arguments? The organizational structure can be changed after the war, the main thing is that they do not forget to do it, hiding behind empty cries that "the airborne troops are great". The airborne troops are really great, but they fight as infantry, good, high-quality infantry. And not a single airborne soldier in his right mind will now suggest that you get on a plane and conduct an airborne force behind enemy lines, because he is not an idiot)
                  1. -5
                    3 August 2025 22: 00
                    Quote from: newtc7
                    Drawing conclusions does not mean just “changing the organizational structure”

                    Umm... read carefully. My opponent suggested exactly that. laughing

                    As for everything else, I have no objections, yes, everything is so.
                3. +2
                  9 August 2025 20: 02
                  The Airborne Forces are still useful in their current form.

                  For example?
                  Are they storming fortifications in BMDs?
                  In which there is no armor, a stormtrooper in a good SIBZ kit with a backpack of cartridges and a couple of RPGs is simply doesn't fit into the landing compartment, and the vehicle is more complex and more expensive than a similar infantry fighting vehicle.
                  Or maybe they are beneficial in that they spend money on airplane flights and parachute jumps to train the average motorized rifleman in the future?
                  Why do we need hundreds of thousands of airborne troops with their equipment if they are used as regular motorized infantry, because a simple MANPADS crew or a stray Shilka will turn an Il-76 landing party into a meat grinder?
                  It would be easier to leave only the airborne assault battalions on helicopters and create simply “elite” units in the ranks of the motorized riflemen, which would have the same requirements and training standards as the Airborne Forces.
                  And leave the parachute landing to separate small units of the GRU.
                  1. AMG
                    0
                    12 August 2025 12: 40
                    The USSR/Russian Airborne Forces never had hundreds of thousands of fighters, a maximum of 70 thousand. There are almost no wild "Shilkas" now, and there won't be enough IL-76s.
                    1. -2
                      13 August 2025 10: 55
                      There were never hundreds of thousands of fighters, maximum up to 70 thousand.

                      There is no permanent population.
                      But I don’t think that more than 50 BMDs and BTR-Ds were made for 60-5000 thousand paratroopers during the Soviet years alone.
                      There are almost no crazy "Shilkas" now

                      Have they all disappeared?
                      Take anything, even a ZU-23-2 on a shishiga.
                      Even though there are countless drone shooter calculations.
                      Getting the IL-76 is desirable, but not critical. The main thing is to get the paratroopers.
                      1. AMG
                        +1
                        13 August 2025 11: 19
                        The number of vehicles may even be slightly more, but it is approximately the same. After all, there were losses, and not only combat ones (aging, if the first vehicles are from 1967). Special command vehicles, for anti-aircraft gunners, anti-tank gunners, where the crews are smaller. A total of 7 divisions, one training, separate brigade and regiment, a school. Enough for everyone.
                      2. AMG
                        0
                        13 August 2025 11: 27
                        And "Shilkas" are probably all retired? Where did you see them in the SVO? "Tunguskas" are rare. The difference in the number of produced ones is of course big, not in favor of the latter.
                    2. -2
                      13 August 2025 11: 15
                      The number of airborne troops in Soviet times was a little over fifty thousand. In 1991, oddly enough, it grew to more than 70 thousand. Currently, the airborne troops number slightly more than 40 thousand.
                      1. AMG
                        +1
                        13 August 2025 11: 23
                        Probably by joining airborne assault units? And what about BRDM, Vladimir Nikolaevich?
                      2. -1
                        13 August 2025 13: 46
                        "Probably due to the addition of airborne assault units?" That's probably true. Just over 3500 airborne combat vehicles were produced over the entire period. Probably several hundred BTR-Ds. I emphasize, this is for the entire period. You're right, is that a lot? Moreover, with the start of the Afghan war, we started losing vehicles. In our company, a BMD was blown up by a landmine near the Pakistani border in April 1980, and it could not be restored; only the bottom was taken to Kabul. Later, another one with the same result. And this is just for us, but how many were produced throughout Afghanistan? In total, just over 4000 combat vehicles were produced for the Airborne Forces over the entire period. And tanks, for example, in the Warsaw Pact there were more than 50 Soviet tanks plus 000 from Eastern Europe. In the GSVG alone there were about 15 tanks, and another 000 were in reserve. So the number of combat vehicles in the Airborne Forces is a drop in the ocean.
                      3. AMG
                        0
                        14 August 2025 09: 31
                        Let me repeat the question. Were the Soviet Airborne Forces armed with BRDM-1,2?
                      4. 0
                        14 August 2025 10: 03
                        I'm talking about the BTR-D - a multi-purpose tracked armored personnel carrier for airborne troops, created on the basis of the BMD-1, but slightly longer. One vehicle in each company. Here it is in the photo. We did not have BRDM in service.
                      5. AMG
                        0
                        14 August 2025 11: 57
                        My question was that in the days when there was no BMD-1, the troops could have used the BRDM-1, at least in reconnaissance units. By weight, it could have been adapted for parachute landing, since before the appearance of the BTR-D, the paratroopers did not have an armored personnel carrier. The BTR-D, I remember, was first shown in the film "In the Zone of Special Attention". Now we know that it was produced since 1974. Another question: "Did you serve in the 350th airborne regiment and participate in the Kabul operation of 1979?"
                      6. 0
                        14 August 2025 12: 12
                        He served in the 350th regiment and took part in the Kabul operation.
                      7. AMG
                        0
                        14 August 2025 13: 47
                        I have a fellow countryman, a BMD mechanic, who served and participated there. I don't know the battalion or company though.
                      8. 0
                        14 August 2025 15: 10
                        What is his name? And perhaps his call is known.
                      9. AMG
                        +1
                        14 August 2025 15: 15
                        Kuzmin Alexander, served for about a year. I'll check and report. He was called up from Voroshilovgrad. He remembers the night, a march through the city with a guide, narrow streets, crunching cars, the General Staff building.
                      10. 0
                        14 August 2025 15: 34
                        Probably not about a year, but a year. If he is a driver-mechanic, then he should have been in training for six months. The draft, for example, was in the fall of 1978, in the fall of 1979 he served for a year. Or the spring draft of 1979, but in this case he had just come from training before Afghanistan.
                      11. AMG
                        0
                        14 August 2025 20: 05
                        I'll definitely meet him in a few days and report back.
                      12. 0
                        14 August 2025 20: 37
                        If he was in the general staff area, he must have been either from our battalion or with someone from the regiment command. Regiment commander Shpak was in his "magpie", of course, but his BMD #500 was with him as security. The regiment deputy commander for technical support, the political officer, the regimental special officer, the artillery chief and his assistant: practically the entire regiment command was in this area, since the general staff was the main task. It will be interesting to know what vehicle and company he was from. The 3rd battalion has been assembled for a long time; we communicate at official meetings, and at work, and in everyday life. We will be glad if our fighter shows up.
                      13. AMG
                        +1
                        14 August 2025 21: 42
                        There should be an answer on Sunday.
                      14. AMG
                        +1
                        17 August 2025 20: 35
                        Good health, Vladimir Nikolaevich! The initial information is not entirely correct. Zemlyak was called up in the fall of 1978, purely by chance, having ended up in the Airborne Forces without even completing 3 jumps. He went through the Gayzhunay training, 3rd battalion, 8th company, BMD driver-mechanic. In the troops of the 317th airborne regiment, also the 3rd battalion and 8th company. In Kabul, he participated in the assault on an army corps. He told about the events from the words of his fellow soldiers, in fragments, which is why the information was distorted. In the future, I will try not to repeat the mistake.
                      15. 0
                        17 August 2025 22: 04
                        Good evening! Yes, the Central Army Corps is the work of the divisional reconnaissance company, the parachute company of the 317th regiment and six fighters of the Zenit group. I have many friends from the 3rd battalion of the 317th regiment, and from different drafts. Many vehicles from our regiment, together with their crews, were transferred to the 56th brigade. And at the end of February, when the battalion was leaving for Kunar, we were temporarily given BMDs with crews from the 3rd battalion of the 317th regiment, which remained with us until our return to Kabul in the summer of 1980.
                      16. 0
                        17 August 2025 22: 18
                        By the way, here is the 8th company of the 317th regiment, 1980, Kandahar. Matushkin, Yakushev, Prokushev, Datuashvili, Arsenyev, Martynov, Golovko. Perhaps comrade remembers someone.
                      17. AMG
                        +1
                        18 August 2025 08: 02
                        Thank you very much! I will definitely pass it on.
                  2. 0
                    25 August 2025 17: 34
                    Quote: English Tarantas
                    The Airborne Forces are still useful in their current form.

                    For example?
                    Are they storming fortifications in BMDs?
                    In which there is no armor, a stormtrooper in a good SIBZ kit with a backpack of cartridges and a couple of RPGs is simply doesn't fit into the landing compartment, and the vehicle is more complex and more expensive than a similar infantry fighting vehicle.
                    Or maybe they are beneficial in that they spend money on airplane flights and parachute jumps to train the average motorized rifleman in the future?
                    Why do we need hundreds of thousands of airborne troops with their equipment if they are used as regular motorized infantry, because a simple MANPADS crew or a stray Shilka will turn an Il-76 landing party into a meat grinder?
                    It would be easier to leave only the airborne assault battalions on helicopters and create simply “elite” units in the ranks of the motorized riflemen, which would have the same requirements and training standards as the Airborne Forces.
                    And leave the parachute landing to separate small units of the GRU.

                    Hello, the Americans have long since abandoned airborne landings. They send their troops by helicopter.
                    At present, the IL-76 with the paratroopers on board has no chance of returning to the airfield
                    the landing party also has no chance of landing on the ground alive
                    airborne parachute landing can be said to be a thing of the past and will take a worthy and honorable place in the history of the development of the Russian army
            2. man
              +3
              2 August 2025 11: 55
              Quote: vasyliy1
              "Then the question is why have a SEPARATE branch of the military with separate types of weapons?"

              Let's wait until the war is over and only after it is over we will make final conclusions on this issue.

              I will support... it is easy to break... and then... "What we have we do not treasure, when we lose it we cry"
            3. +8
              2 August 2025 12: 56
              Let's wait until the war is over and only after it is over will we make final conclusions on this issue.

              What's the point of waiting? It's already possible to evaluate retrospectively, for the entire period of existence. Even before the era of drones.

              The Germans' only asset is probably Crete. After which Hitler himself banned mass airborne landings. wink
              And which could also be taken from the sea if there was a normal fleet. The Americans took hundreds of islands in the Pacific.

              The concept of use itself is a dead end. All normal people break out of encirclement due to lack of supplies, and the Airborne Forces jump in themselves! laughing
              1. -3
                2 August 2025 19: 25
                Quote: Arzt
                and the airborne forces jump there themselves

                It would pass for sarcasm, IMHO. And the troops have a fitting motto - if not us, then who??! laughing
              2. 0
                9 August 2025 20: 08
                The only asset the Germans have is probably Crete.

                Landing in Normandy.
                It was the parachute landings that prevented the Germans from throwing the Americans into the sea and tied down the units closest to the shore in battle and ambushes while the troops crawled out onto the shore.
                But this is more likely what our GRU special forces do.
                As a result, it is not clear why a separate army is needed, which either fights like motorized riflemen, but has worse equipment and weapons for these purposes, or carries out the tasks of the GRU special forces, without having the training that these special forces have.
            4. + 11
              2 August 2025 15: 37
              Quote: vasyliy1
              "Then the question is why have a SEPARATE branch of the military with separate types of weapons

              Let's wait until the war is over and only after it is over we will make final conclusions on this issue.

              "Unteachable"
            5. 0
              2 August 2025 15: 56
              In the Union, they also created airborne assault brigades and subordinated them to the Ground Forces and the command of military districts. And when, after a long period, they decided to transfer these brigades to the Airborne Forces, it turned out that there were very few even infantry officers and commanders. But there were many people from the railway troops and other rear services. Landings are not necessarily a parachute drop, they can be from a helicopter, and the marines also land when landing on the shore...
              And the author regularly speaks out on this topic...
              1. -3
                3 August 2025 21: 53
                In fact, the controversy is NOT ENTIRELY clear (in the word - completely) - those who DOUBT the capabilities of the Airborne Forces today are an outright AMATEUR or a TRAITOR... Okay - let's reason: WHY then the Marine Corps, for example?! Since the Airborne Forces are NOT NEEDED and the concept of wars is changing...
                Then, excuse me, the question: WHO will OCCUPY, for example, the enemy's routed territory by any means: be it the navy or the air force?! Assault groups?! It would be interesting (or rather, not at all interesting!) to see how assault groups WILL occupy large populated areas due to their small numbers - other tasks are/were set before "assaults", in fact...
                And given the MOBILITY of the Airborne Forces and Marines (taking into account landings by air, sea and land), tell me WHO CAN REPLACE THEM?! What OTHER troops?! Maybe mobilized recruits?!
                When you listen to this nonsense about "doubts" about the effectiveness and logic of using the Airborne Forces (and the Marine Corps, of course!), tell THAT to the Americans and suggest that they disband their Marine Corps due to its "inexpediency"...
                In general...what nonsense...
                1. 0
                  3 August 2025 22: 06
                  And what about the landing force created to occupy the territory of an already defeated enemy? Oh, and I thought that it was created to defeat not a defeated enemy, but a fully combat-ready one by dropping it into the rear) no?
                  I'll tell you a secret, stormtroopers storm large populated areas on their own, but what units are they from? From any, including the landing force. And who occupies them once they've been liberated? Anyone, but that's definitely not the prerogative of the landing force and the marines )))
                  1. -3
                    3 August 2025 22: 15
                    There is no need to distort things - "defeated" territory does not mean: liberated from ALL enemy military units: there always remain (in any "defeats" quite combat-ready units!), attack aircraft - STORM! but do not OCCUPATE! (except for villages and settlements). And no attack aircraft WILL physically (due to their small numbers) take possession of a LARGE TERRITORY of a large settlement a la Kharkov, for example, smashed to smithereens by artillery, aviation and missiles... That is why landing forces (marines, etc.) are needed for SUCH cases...
                    1. +2
                      4 August 2025 19: 33
                      What nonsense are you talking... it's probably not even worth commenting on, it's just nonsense on nonsense. There was never such a concept of the landing force as "to follow the stormtrooper and occupy what they recaptured" before and there will never be one after. You just need to get your head treated
                  2. -1
                    3 August 2025 22: 23
                    P.S. By the way, the tactics are not NEW at all - for example, the Fritzes did the same during assaults...Odessa, for example...Yes, many places...
                2. +1
                  4 August 2025 01: 23
                  And WHO will OCCUPATE, for example, the enemy's destroyed territory by any means


                  Anyone, even the Russian National Guard.

                  And with the MOBILITY of the Airborne Forces and Marines (taking into account landings by air, sea and land)


                  The Airborne Forces and Marines themselves do not have any mobility. But with aircraft and landing ships, yes. But there is a nuance.

                  Tell THIS to the Americans and suggest that they disband their Marine Corps due to "inexpediency"...


                  The Americans' largest landing operations in WWII took place without any Marines at all. During the Korean War, a Marine division and the 7th Infantry Division landed in Inchon. And if we talk about today, then again, rapid reaction units for airlift are motorized infantry units on Stryers. For airborne assault operations on helicopters, there is the 101st Division, but Marines, mountain riflemen, and rangers also do this.
            6. +3
              2 August 2025 18: 38
              while it's going on (alas, not a war, but only a military offensive)... the topic is relevant... as soon as... everything will be immediately postponed for later...
            7. +3
              4 August 2025 14: 19
              Quote: vasyliy1
              Let's wait until the war is over and only after it is over will we make final conclusions on this issue.

              So we have already seen the end of three wars and one forced peace. And each time it is the same: parachute landing with equipment was not used even once, but the Airborne Forces continued to be built based on its primary necessity.
              Spawn this did not happen, and again the same thing! ©

              A simple question: the force complement for a parachute landing of one airborne assault force with equipment and supplies is 85-90 Il-76. Will you be able to find such a number of military transport aircraft in the Aerospace Forces? And cover them?
              1. +3
                4 August 2025 19: 54
                And when after the first attempt at landing, 90-70 out of 80 are shot down, then the issue with the airborne forces will be resolved, so to speak, for natural reasons...
                A landing operation can work against the Papuans, a tactical landing on helicopters can also work, as was the case in Gostomel, but for such a landing neither a separate branch of the armed forces nor, even more so, separate types of equipment are needed. Good attack aircraft with conventional weapons and helicopters are enough) and it makes no difference at all how to fight the Papuans, and you can cope without a landing on parachutes.

                What really makes sense is to have rapid response units made up entirely of contract soldiers who, if necessary, can load into planes and fly to some airfield of a friendly country, and there you jump and you load out of the plane. And this can only be done on the condition that at this particular moment these planes are not shot down. But for this, again, a separate branch of the military and special equipment are not needed.
          2. -2
            2 August 2025 16: 07
            Quote: T-100
            Air supremacy has not been fully achieved and air defenses have not been suppressed.

            It is now better to use the Airborne Forces in a combined arms operation with other units

            I understand and know this. Then the question is why have a SEPARATE branch of the military with separate types of weapons. Maybe it is more logical to have such troops in large units that will be directly subordinate to them. The Airborne Forces have lost their significance just like the cavalry in their classic place on the battlefield.

            The development of drones can make adjustments to the use of the Airborne Forces. There are already drones for transporting cargo and the wounded. The war between Israel and Iran and the Central Military District showed that any air defense is powerless with a large number of drones used. In the future, an Airborne Forces division can be landed using drones. Yes, the paratroopers will not have heavy weapons then, but given the enemy's air defense systems, this is unrealistic now. But sending 5-10 thousand drones with paratroopers and ammunition to the Chernigov forests is quite realistic.
            1. +7
              2 August 2025 18: 40
              just like Heinlein... landing troops on individual carriers... true, without exo-skeletons, but still... a hundred paratroopers carried by a heavy drone behind a LBS and supplied by them... this is something new in military affairs...
              1. +2
                3 August 2025 17: 29
                It's all quite possible. Then all that's left is to tame the dragons so that they can supply ten thousand paratroopers in the Chernigov forests from the air.
              2. -1
                4 August 2025 08: 03
                Quote: WapentakeLokki
                just like Heinlein... landing on individual carriers... though without exo-skeletons
                well, so far the necessary drones have not been "finished" and as soon as the drones are "finished" so will the exoskeletons be "finished" and it is not yet known which will happen first [media=https://vk.com/video-132621744_456239132] I am creating an active power exoskeleton. #5 [Power part]

                P.S., does anyone know how to properly embed videos from VK?
            2. +1
              3 August 2025 22: 08
              You are right, if a drone is created to transport one person, sufficiently reliable, flying low to the ground and having a normal flight duration - this will breathe new life into the landing force. But then the entire infantry will become a landing force) because everyone who is not too lazy will fly like that
          3. +2
            2 August 2025 17: 29
            Airmobile troops are a branch of the armed forces with separate subordination within the ground forces of the armed forces of some states[1][2], or specially trained formations within the ground forces, intended for combat operations within the framework of so-called airmobile operations, which[3] involve the covert transfer of a significant number of troops by air and their landing.

            A distinctive feature of airmobile units is their ability to move quickly along the front of combat operations and into its depths using their own forces, using transport and multi-purpose helicopters as a means of maneuver and aerial reconnaissance, and attack helicopters as a means of fire support. Such tactics allow for effective offensive combat operations in hard-to-reach areas, in the enemy's rear, and in isolation from their main forces.

            Airborne assault units and airborne assault units are also classified as airmobile forces[4][5]. As a rule, airmobile forces are part of the rapid reaction forces[4][5].

            let's also abandon aviation as a separate branch of the military and subordinate it to ground commanders, as was the case at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War
            1. AMG
              +1
              12 August 2025 12: 32
              Is this a quote from some textbook? For general development?
              1. 0
                14 August 2025 01: 07
                No, Wikipedia pulled it from everywhere
      2. +5
        2 August 2025 12: 18
        If everything is so successful, why aren’t the Airborne Forces used for their intended purpose after 2022?


        Maybe because there was a catastrophic shortage of people at the front, when in fact we hammered nails with a microscope? When all the elite units and divisions were worn down in battles
      3. +6
        2 August 2025 12: 54
        Quote: T-100
        As for success, I personally wouldn’t say so.

        The landing operation itself was carried out simply brilliantly - a breakthrough of a large group of helicopters with landing troops under cover of attack helicopters, landing in Gostomel, capturing the airfield, clearing the surrounding area and holding it until the main forces arrived, which also did not let us down, everything was carried out at the highest level. And the further development of the offensive with the encirclement of Kyiv.
        The VPR screwed up by allocating an impermissibly meager number of forces to the SVO. The entire stake was placed on the panic of the enemy, the flight of its leadership from the country and the refusal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to stubbornly resist. If the second echelon had at least as many as the first in this direction (30 thousand), everything near Kiev could have turned out completely differently. But according to the military minimum and even counting on surprise, the grouping of troops in the Kiev direction should have been no less than 100 thousand, and the optimum - 150 thousand bayonets with all the necessary equipment. Then, in those conditions, one could count on success.
        But the enemy accepted the challenge and began to put up desperate and highly organized resistance, carrying out Mobilization from the first day of the conflict.
        That's it. Blitzkrieg failed. The forces needed for it were at least 350, and the optimum was 500 thousand. But there were 160 thousand, including the corps of the Donbass republics. But we owe the success near Kiev in the first days and weeks of the conflict to the landing on Gostomel, which was carried out simply brilliantly.
        Quote: T-100
        Why won't the Airborne Forces be used for their intended purpose after 2022?

        Because there are no such tasks in the current conflict. Since the beginning of autumn 2022, the Russian Armed Forces have gone into strategic defense and to this day are fighting based on this strategic line - active defense and creeping advance. There are no allocated forces for more, nor have the means yet been invented to suppress attack UAVs over the battlefield for the successful conduct of large-scale offensive operations on a broad front, with a deep breakthrough and development of the offensive in the rear of enemy groups. The forces and means for this exist, but the possibility of implementation is NOT YET.
        In addition, the grouping involved in the SVO is limited to the bare minimum necessary for a creeping offensive. While the borders with NATO are being strengthened, new units are being deployed and undergoing combat coordination, the number of the Aerospace Forces is increasing, the production of all types of BP, ASP, CR, GZR, attack drones is being built up, and their accumulation is underway. The entire NATO bloc is in front of us and the troops are preparing to confront it. And in the B/U, the offensive is carried out by attack aircraft according to the principle of small assault and reconnaissance and sabotage groups. This is not the tactics of combined arms combat according to classical regulations, this is more typical of the Airborne Forces, Marines and Special Operations Forces, but now on a much larger scale. And the tactical methods and developments of combat training of the Airborne Forces are more appropriate here than ever.
        There will be no more parachute landings (mass ones), it is technically impossible for a number of reasons. But the Airborne Forces as Airmobile Forces, as airborne assault brigades and divisions for landing from helicopters and high-speed watercraft on bridgeheads, using the surprise factor or the factor of exhaustion of enemy air defense, will still be in great demand. The Airborne Forces will remain winged infantry, but as a rule without parachutes.
        Quote: T-100
        to land troops on Slavyansk or Kramatorsk and, as you say, "to capture a bridgehead in the enemy's rear and hold it until the main forces arrive," to cause, as you said, panic and disorganization?

        Don't read science fiction at night. Study the experience of real combat use of airborne special forces.
        1. +5
          2 August 2025 14: 07
          Quote: bayard
          There will be no more parachute landings (mass ones), it is technically impossible for a number of reasons. But the Airborne Forces as Airmobile Forces, as airborne assault brigades and divisions for landing from helicopters and high-speed watercraft on bridgeheads, using the factor of surprise or the factor of exhaustion of enemy air defense, will still be in great demand.

          Exactly. And this is already recognized as the appearance of tank units in the Airborne Forces. In connection with the refusal of mass parachute landing, the armament of the Airborne Forces should also change. After all, it looks rather strange when the most select soldiers of Russia receive weapons with characteristics that are too low to meet the requirements of parachute landing, although in practice the Airborne Forces have to be used without parachutes, and so often that this hypothetical possibility can safely be considered extremely unlikely and not the main purpose of the Airborne Forces.
          This does not mean that everything should be disbanded, as some suggest. Indeed, parachute landing is not the only possible one, even from the air. And glorious traditions are not an empty phrase. It is not for nothing that many armored regiments and divisions of the Western bourgeoisie have retained their former, well-deserved cavalry names. But the equipment must correspond to its time, and the Airborne Forces will have to take this into account in order not to suffer unjustified losses.
          1. +2
            2 August 2025 14: 45
            Quote: Chief Officer Lom
            The airborne forces' weapons should also change. After all, it looks rather strange when the most select Russian soldiers receive weapons with characteristics that are too low to meet the requirements of parachute landing,

            Yes, we will have to abandon this vicious practice, leaving no more than 20% of parachute-landing equipment in the composition of the Airborne Forces. And that's because it already exists. The Airborne Forces should also be armed with amphibious, but fairly well-protected armored vehicles for the infantry. Of course, based on the BMP-3\3M. But the APC and IFV should be front-engine, namely, made according to the layout of the "Dragoon" and "Manul". With a convenient rear ramp for dismounting, a fairly roomy fighting compartment and an unmanned BM. Moreover, I would even leave the classic BMP-3 in production (but with side screens from the "Kurganets"), but not as an infantry vehicle, but as an Infantry Fire Support Vehicle and a light tank at the same time. With the option of accepting infantry on the battlefield for evacuation, but no more, the new IFV and APC based on it should be in the form of the BMP-3M "Manul" with a combat module from the "Kurganets", and the APC should have a light BM from the BTR-82A ... and there should be a LOT of them. Exactly these APCs. And specifically floating ones. And specifically for the Airborne Forces, the Navy Marine Corps and the vanguard units and parts in tank and motorized rifle formations. Then tactical helicopter landings after high-quality suppression of the enemy and isolation of the landing area using FPV and other high-precision means with UAV guidance over the battlefield, then such helicopter landings will be very effective when landing in the enemy's near rear to ensure a rapid breakthrough of the main forces and connection with the landing force. To capture bridgeheads and exploit success in crossing rivers and other bodies of water, when after the bridgehead has been captured by a helicopter landing force, the main equipment swims to the bridgehead and exploits success, expanding and deepening the bridgehead until pontoon bridges provide for the transfer of heavy armored vehicles and heavy assault units.
            The SVO has opened up many prospects for the nature of future wars. And combat regulations will definitely have to be rewritten, edited, or simply rewritten.
            1. 0
              3 August 2025 22: 34
              I absolutely agree with you, dear bayard! You have quite clearly developed the topic of the CONCEPT OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE VDV and the Marines in light of the development of CURRENT events. And... "liquidate", "subordinate"... I hope that the Supreme Command and the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense are smart enough to implement everything you have described... And to you - plus...
          2. -1
            2 August 2025 17: 45
            The airborne forces got tanks because they are used as regular motorized infantry
            I can just see the pilots jumping out of the burning Il-76 with parachutes, and a hundred paratroopers without parachutes flying along with the plane to the ground)))
            I have never seen any helicopter that could match the Il-76 in speed and range.
            If airborne forces need to be quickly transferred to the other end of the country, thousands or tens of thousands of kilometers away, what helicopter can handle that and how long will it take to refuel???
            The Americans make convertiplanes that have decent speed and range, we don't have anything like that and we never will.
            if the airborne forces and marines have to be used as regular motorized infantry, maybe the problem is not with them, but with this very motorized infantry, which is far from reaching the level of the elite
            1. +1
              3 August 2025 17: 35
              Or maybe there is a real shortage of motorized infantry itself?
              1. -4
                3 August 2025 20: 50
                shortage of motorized infantry throughout its???
            2. 0
              4 August 2025 14: 29
              Quote: bushmaster
              I have never seen any helicopter that could match the Il-76 in speed and range.
              If airborne forces need to be quickly transferred to the other end of the country, thousands or tens of thousands of kilometers away, what helicopter can handle that and how long will it take to refuel???

              So no one is against the air mobility of the Airborne Forces. The possibility of airlift and airborne landing should be retained. They are calling for abandoning 100% parachute landing of equipment - no one has used this in combat conditions for half a century anyway.
              The rejection of parachute landing is an opportunity to increase the dimensions and weight of the equipment, which will be determined by the cargo cabin of the aircraft, and not by the Procrustean bed of the maximum MGH of the equipment for the parachute landing platform.
              1. 0
                5 August 2025 21: 57
                Work on the creation of a third-generation airborne combat vehicle began in parallel with the development of the BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicle. However, the results of the development showed that the mass of the BMP-3 with landing gear would significantly exceed 20 tons, so the Il-76M aircraft would be able to lift only one combat vehicle on board. Therefore, in the early 1980s, work began on creating the appearance of the airborne combat vehicle. During the design, two versions of the BMD-3 were considered. The first assumed a vehicle with an armament complex of a 100-mm 2A70 gun paired with a 30-mm small-caliber 2A72 automatic cannon. The estimated mass of such a BMD was 18 tons. The second version assumed the use of a combat module with a 30-mm 2A42 automatic cannon, similar to that installed on the BMP-2. Thus, the Il-76M aircraft load consisted of either 2 BMDs weighing 18 tons, or 3 BMDs weighing 12,5 tons. Subsequent research work proved that with the second option, the BMD tasks are performed much more effectively.

                You can transport even a T-76-34 in an IL-85, but only ONE piece, and BMDs are made so light that as many as possible can be crammed into one plane, even without taking into account the landing equipment
                If you want to carry regular infantry fighting vehicles or even main battle tanks, get the AN-124 Ruslan
                1. +1
                  6 August 2025 11: 20
                  Quote: bushmaster
                  You can transport even a T-76-34 in an IL-85, but only ONE piece, and BMDs are made so light that as many as possible can be crammed into one plane, even without taking into account the landing equipment

                  Nope. The BMD is not made for an airplane, but for a parachute landing platform. Which has much stricter restrictions on the MGH. Plus it adds a ton to one and a half of weight and additional height, so you have to get creative with the variable clearance (and this is also an additional weight for the BMD).
                  Remember the dance around the "Sprut", which easily fit into the cargo cabin, but did not pass through the mass for landing on a regular platform? wink

                  We remove parachute landing - immediately the equipment gains "free" one to one and a half tons of mass and 0,3-0,5 m of height
                  1. 0
                    9 August 2025 08: 02
                    and what next???
                    a ton and a half, what to do with it, spread it in a thin layer all over the bmd
                    and at the same time we can’t throw them out to our troops anywhere
                    then what is the point of a BMD specially designed for an aircraft that cannot be dropped with a parachute
                    with the same success, instead of a BMD, you can stuff three BMP-2s, perhaps, but the question is where to land the Il-76 and how many BMPs will be sick to reach their troops, landed, for example, by helicopters
                    1. -1
                      11 August 2025 11: 02
                      Quote: bushmaster
                      and at the same time we can’t throw them out to our troops anywhere

                      Where are you going to fight in such a way that you need to drop equipment with parachutes to help the infantry? And wouldn't it be easier to use the forces that will be thrown into gaining air supremacy and suppressing the enemy's air defenses for this landing to support this infantry from the air?
                      Just a reminder: one airborne assault force requires 85-90 Il-76s for its airdrop. And this armada will need to be brought to the front line.
                      Quote: bushmaster
                      then what is the point of a BMD specially designed for an aircraft that cannot be dropped with a parachute

                      In nothing. This machine was created for a concept that has never been used in practice for more than half a century. Because a mass parachute drop of troops with equipment requires that the enemy's air defense disappear somewhere... in general, this is from that universe where "one SBC per battalion and OTR/RMD/RSD in the rear."
                      And for this airdrop, we still need to find military transport aviation somewhere. Because as soon as equipment appears, the number of forces for the airdrop increases sharply. Even the mighty USSR with all its military transport aviation and civil aviation could raise a little more than one airborne division.
                      1. +1
                        11 August 2025 22: 19
                        yes, they can fight anywhere, helicopters delivered infantry, and the Il-76 dropped equipment for them
                        yes, the Russian Aerospace Forces can no longer handle such a landing
                        we remember NATO operations, that they harshly opposed some air defense, or maybe suppressed the air defense at the very beginning and then did what they wanted
                        Well, only the USSR and the USA could afford such landings, Russia can't even compare

                        Why is it bad when our airborne forces can count on an armored tracked tank, while NATO airborne forces can only count on vehicles?
                      2. 0
                        12 August 2025 10: 47
                        Quote: bushmaster
                        yes, they can fight anywhere, helicopters delivered infantry, and the Il-76 dropped equipment for them

                        Excellent. The landing party collected the landed equipment from the forests and fields, fired the ammunition - and that's it.
                        Quote: bushmaster
                        Why is it bad when our airborne forces can count on an armored tracked tank, while NATO airborne forces can only count on vehicles?

                        Because our own paratroopers will not be fighting NATO airborne forces! And not even with the Landwehr and other territorials, which is what they were previously designed for. They will be fighting the enemy's motorized infantry, which has both armor and full-fledged artillery.
                        There will be no massive landings in the rear - there is nothing to throw, nothing to cover. The Airborne Forces have one task left - to strengthen their infantry. And they and the ground forces will have one enemy - tank and motorized units of the enemy's first echelon.
                      3. 0
                        14 August 2025 01: 38
                        If by that time our own with the rear have not arrived, then an airlift with cargo
                        the domestic landing force should fight first of all with NATO mobile groups and in the same way as NATO mobile groups, like the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the 23rd and in Kursk, mobile units in MRAs and pickups, without tanks and without anything, which rush forward to occupy as much territory as possible
                        armor and full-fledged artillery, this is if there is a normal front line, but if there is none and separate detachments of tanks with infantry at different distances from each other, as was the case in 22 before mobilization, then what can we talk about here
                        in the same Kursk, where the border was not really covered, you can find a bunch of places where you can fly in and sit down in different villages, or maybe even occupy a small city
                        What prevents our own tank and motorized units from later replacing the landing forces in the occupied positions?
            3. AMG
              +2
              12 August 2025 12: 52
              Why do we need convertiplanes? The machine is expensive and capricious. The Americans use it mainly in the Marine Corps.
              1. +1
                14 August 2025 00: 56
                because a tiltrotor flies further and faster than a helicopter
                1. AMG
                  0
                  14 August 2025 09: 28
                  So what? Are we going to compete with the Americans in speed and range? Why?
                  1. 0
                    17 August 2025 11: 11
                    we won't compete because we can't handle such a project
        2. 0
          3 August 2025 17: 34
          Could it really be that at Gostomel everything turned out this way because of the "meager number of forces"? Or maybe because someone ordered them to stop while they were preparing for the half-negotiations?
          Only 3,5 years have passed, not everyone has such a short memory for gestures of goodwill.
          1. +5
            3 August 2025 18: 07
            Quote from Kreta25
            Could it really be that everything that happened near Gostomel happened because of the “meager number of forces”?

            Not near Gostomel, but near Kiev. Gostomel was taken right away, which determined the success of the main forces' quick breakthrough to Kyiv.
            And near Kyiv we have a UAV group of 30 thousand.
            The enemy's Kyiv garrison alone numbered 30 thousand bayonets, not counting the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Security Service of Ukraine, the Mobilization (which in 3 weeks produced 70 thousand volunteers) and the transfer of troops from other internal regions and even the arrival of a contingent of "volunteers" from abroad (Europe, the USA).

            Quote from Kreta25
            Or maybe it was because someone ordered them to stop while they were preparing for the non-negotiations?

            Negotiations were offered to the Kyiv regime literally on the second day of the SVO, they began in Belarus, then continued in Istanbul. And during these negotiations the situation on the fronts changed, and near Kiev it was definitely not in our favor. By the time our troops withdrew from near Kyiv, an approximately 150-thousand-strong enemy group was already operating against our already thinned group, which was not receiving reinforcements (because there simply were none), and was already cutting off our flanks. And in the rear of our troops, in the same Sumy and other cities, which we not only did not clear, but did not even enter (there were no troops for this), mobilization and arming of the mobilized contingent was already in full swing. In the rear of our troops, mobilization of enemy troops was underway, receiving weapons from weapons depots untouched by our troops. In such conditions, only the fastest possible withdrawal of troops from Kyiv made it possible to avoid encirclement and defeat. It’s just that Shoigu and someone else at the top decided that it was possible to wage war without an Army, mobilization of the missing contingent and normal supplies.
            Quote from Kreta25
            Only 3,5 years have passed, not everyone has such a short memory for gestures of goodwill.

            I have been in this war since 2014, unlike some fantasists without knowledge of military affairs, the real balance of power, with a distracted look through the reports of guard bloggers. What the hell is a "gesture of goodwill" when, due to a lack of fuel, they abandoned fully functional equipment. And there was no fuel or ammunition because the routes from the Russian Federation were not controlled by our troops. No checkpoints, no patrols, no control of populated areas. The army rushed at full speed first to Kyiv, and then even more quickly jumped out of there to avoid encirclement. We, old Soviet officers, had our hair standing on end from the wildness of what was happening. Only the courage and professionalism of the soldiers and low-level commanders prevented a catastrophe. Shoiga did not rotate the troops until the fall. And he did not prepare reserves. Maybe he wanted to defeat all his enemies with just his portrait.
            For the authorities, this was a way to cover up their shame - to call the emergency retreat from Kyiv a "gesture of good will". Otherwise, we would have lost it there. All of it, without a trace.
            The number of the RF Armed Forces Ground Forces as of February 2022, including conscripts (!!), was as much as 280 thousand. With staff, rear, etc. auxiliary. The RF had practically no ground army at that time, only "toy regiments". And no trained reserves.
            But now the number of ground forces, including contract soldiers alone, exceeds 1,5 million. Not to mention the increased numbers of the Airborne Forces and Marine Corps of the Navy.
            1. +2
              4 August 2025 11: 09
              I agree with you. It was no secret that the number of ground forces was steadily declining under the mantras of "compact army, small special operations forces and other battalion tactical groups"... all this nonsense failed miserably in 2022...
      4. +1
        2 August 2025 21: 25
        Quote: T-100
        "to capture a bridgehead in the enemy's rear and hold it until the main forces arrive."

        Lack of opportunity
        approach of the main forces.

        The main forces then and, alas, now are not capable of such operations.
        The highly mobile special forces (we call them airborne VDV) - what is left of them that is trained - are still capable of a lot, but, alas.
      5. +2
        3 August 2025 08: 52
        Quote: T-100
        As for success, I personally wouldn’t say so.

        I wouldn’t blame the Airborne Forces for the command’s miscalculations.
        Quote: T-100
        If everything is so successful, why aren’t the Airborne Forces used for their intended purpose after 2022?

        When the command is able to plan a competent operation, then it will be possible to use it for its intended purpose. By the way, the Airborne Forces are not only parachute landings, there are many tasks and goals with their own specifics and only one of them, and a very necessary one, is the time to respond to a threat (threats are also different). To say that well-trained combat units are not needed is some kind of insanity.
      6. AMG
        +1
        5 August 2025 10: 52
        How do you imagine a landing on Slavyansk or Kramatorsk? A parachute jump on a city or a helicopter landing on a roof of a house?
    2. + 10
      2 August 2025 09: 42
      Quote: vasyliy1
      Without a doubt, the Airborne Forces are more relevant and needed than ever in our time.

      Considering the statistics, starting from WW2, they are not relevant at all, either in the past or in the present. Gostomel is more like a DShB, they are really relevant, and the landing, especially parachute, is a road to nowhere.
      1. -3
        2 August 2025 09: 45
        The Airborne Troops are a branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation that is the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
        1. +6
          2 August 2025 10: 11
          And what does this mean? """
          1. -2
            2 August 2025 16: 08
            There seem to be no missing periods or commas. What's unclear there?
            1. +5
              2 August 2025 17: 09
              Well, they are reserves, and what does that mean? And what about the rest of the troops then?
              1. -7
                2 August 2025 17: 12
                Quote from AdAstra
                Well, they are reserves, and what does that mean? And what about the rest of the troops then?

                And with this question - to the prosecutor. He will add, out of habit laughing
                1. +3
                  2 August 2025 17: 15
                  Laugh with the prosecutor, like in that joke about the letter "r" in the word "lopata"? You wouldn't drink strong alcoholic drinks in such heat, or you'd have more snacks.
                  1. -6
                    2 August 2025 17: 17
                    Quote from AdAstra
                    You wouldn't drink strong alcoholic drinks in such heat or you would eat more snacks

                    You'll be surprised - I don't drink at all... diet, 1800 kcal/day, balanced, and 10000 steps a day. May you live like that laughing
                    1. +1
                      2 August 2025 17: 19
                      Well, you really surprised me, yeah. I also don't drink "wine" and 30000 steps a day.
                      1. -4
                        2 August 2025 17: 20
                        Quote from AdAstra
                        30000 steps a day

                        Well, for that much, and especially during the work week, I simply don’t have time.
        2. -4
          2 August 2025 10: 42
          Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
          The Airborne Troops are a branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation that is the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
          In essence, the Airborne Forces are the “tip” of the spear in the hands of the Supreme Commander.
          Airborne Forces in practice in the forefront enter into hostilities.
          Even the strongest and sharpest tip is useless without a strong shaft and solid arms.
          Regular infantry - shaft spears, which bear the main strain of forces in war.
        3. AAK
          +5
          2 August 2025 11: 13
          The Airborne Forces currently need reorganization: organizational and staffing, technical, etc., based on the tasks that are currently set for them by the command. Parachute landing has exhausted itself, completely different equipment and weapons are needed. Traditions and the highest level of training remain, which must be adjusted based on the goals and objectives of the modern use of this type of armed forces. Happy Holidays to all paratroopers!
      2. AMG
        0
        5 August 2025 10: 57
        As long as the armed forces exist, the Airborne Forces are needed in a certain quantity. During military operations, there will certainly be both the opportunity and the need to use them, in one way or another.
    3. +6
      2 August 2025 13: 27
      as demonstrated by the successful and heroic operation near Gostomel.

      Why was the landing force sent there? Tactically, yes, the operation was successful, but strategically, it was a failure.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. +1
      3 August 2025 20: 15
      And how many of the total number of those who directly passed through the pipe were paratroopers?
    5. -3
      3 August 2025 21: 51
      Gostomel showed that in this century, that's it with the landing force. If they had flown in planes, not a single one would have made it, thank God they didn't listen to the general and boarded helicopters.
      And the absence of landing operations after this is a clear indicator of "success" and "efficiency". Your comment is similar to the thoughts of a parquet AI, or a first-generation robot. Of those who are now at the front, there will be exactly zero who want to get on a plane and fly to the enemy's rear, because they are not idiots or suicide bombers.
  2. +2
    2 August 2025 06: 25
    Do we need the Airborne Forces in their current divisional composition? It's hard to say. Here you need to be a modern military theorist, who has all the information, including secret information.
    Are the Airborne Forces needed at all? To answer this question, you don't have to be a military genius. Of course they are needed. As long as sabotage, reconnaissance and other complex tasks are set at the front line and in the enemy's rear in the interests of the armed forces.
    1. +7
      2 August 2025 07: 34
      And what did they do as paratroopers? Maybe they landed in the rear and captured a bridgehead? They acted as well-trained infantry. The Airborne Forces are now an anachronism, their equipment is weak, air defense excludes the possibility of landing. The limitations of equipment for landing, and for infantry fighting vehicles in terms of buoyancy, this is evil, leading to losses due to weak armor. Name at least one real military operation in which the landing force participated as a landing force, and not infantry?
      We need rapid response forces, sabotage forces, but this is not a type of armed forces, but special units.
      1. -8
        2 August 2025 08: 25
        Yes, they parachuted into the rear and captured a bridgehead. And what, you've never heard of the landing in Gostomel? And for the record, the airborne troops are not a type of troops, but a separate branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
        1. + 10
          2 August 2025 08: 56
          Was there a parachute landing in Gostomel? And besides Gostomel, were there any other landing operations during the 3.5 years of the SVO. Operations that confirm the necessity of the existence of the Airborne Forces?
          1. -10
            2 August 2025 08: 58
            First, read the article, but not diagonally, but in full, and this question will disappear.
            1. AMG
              +3
              2 August 2025 23: 35
              Dear Vladimir Nikolaevich! Question regarding the article: "Who were the 105th and 104th Airborne Divisions aimed against?
              1. -4
                3 August 2025 07: 53
                I assume they were targeting the Middle East.
              2. AMG
                0
                10 August 2025 17: 04
                Vladimir Nikolaevich! During your service, were BRDM-1 or 2 in service, in reconnaissance or ATGM carrier versions? Were they equipped for parachute landing?
          2. -1
            2 August 2025 12: 22
            Are landings only possible by parachute?
            Yes, along with Gostomelsky, there was also the Nikolaevsky landing in the south of Ukraine, but due to the fact that it was unsuccessful, little is remembered about it.
        2. +9
          2 August 2025 09: 06
          "And what, you've never heard about the landing in Gostomel?" And who is in Gostomel now?
        3. AMG
          +8
          2 August 2025 09: 12
          The operation you mentioned corresponds to the actions of the SA airborne assault units, which were part of the Ground Forces and were represented by district-level brigades and army battalions. It seems that they do not exist at the moment?
        4. + 10
          2 August 2025 12: 08
          Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
          Yes, they landed in the rear and captured a bridgehead. But what, you've never heard of the landing in Gostomel?

          A crazy plan to organize an analogue of Operation Danube in Czechoslovakia at the beginning of the Central Military District in 2022. As a result, the paratroopers got stuck in Gostomel and the airfield was unable to accept the Il-76.
        5. -1
          3 August 2025 17: 21
          "What, you've never heard of the landing in Gostomel?" - you don't understand the difference between a landing operation and an airborne operation. And you've decided to write about the Airborne Forces.
          1. -1
            3 August 2025 17: 47
            That's why I'm on this site, so that smart people can teach me.
            1. -1
              3 August 2025 17: 49
              Start small - landing methods. It seems you have a clear gap here.
              1. -1
                3 August 2025 17: 52
                Read the comments on this topic and fill in your gaps.
                1. -1
                  3 August 2025 17: 56
                  You have gaps. If you don't understand how the Airborne Forces differ from others.
                  1. -2
                    3 August 2025 18: 09
                    The Airborne Troops are a separate branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and are the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. You are trying in vain, trolling does not work on me.
                    1. -1
                      3 August 2025 18: 13
                      Well, you've gone blank. And these people are discussing whether we need the Airborne Forces. It looks funny.
                      1. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 16
                        Probably, it is not necessary, it is necessary. The number is plural. Your intelligence is certainly off the charts, but your literacy suffers.
                      2. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 27
                        Oh, it sounds familiar - when you get lost on topic, you immediately remember grammar. laughing
                        "Your intelligence is certainly off the charts," - more commas are needed. laughing And this man teaches others literacy.
                      3. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 32
                        On the contrary, I am learning. I want to know more about the Marines: why were they forbidden to jump with a parachute?
                      4. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 36
                        Are you planning to jump from a ship with a parachute? Well, judging by your comments, this is just for you.
                      5. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 37
                        Okay, now I get it. It finally got through to me... You can't jump off a ship...
                      6. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 40
                        Really!! It has dawned on the "VDV guru" that it is inconvenient to jump from a ship with a parachute. Well, that is obvious progress for you.
                      7. AMG
                        -1
                        3 August 2025 22: 25
                        Inappropriate verbiage, against the background of an absolute lack of understanding of the topic under discussion. A clear lack of experience in military service is evident.
                      8. -1
                        4 August 2025 18: 03
                        "lack of understanding of the topic under discussion." - Can you tell me what topic we are discussing?
                      9. AMG
                        -1
                        4 August 2025 18: 14
                        See the title above, and even higher.
                      10. -1
                        4 August 2025 18: 20
                        Look at this yourself. If you come in without understanding what we're talking about, move on.
                      11. AMG
                        0
                        3 August 2025 22: 13
                        In the early 80s, the Baltic Fleet Marine Corps reconnaissance jumped with parachutes from an An-26; a soldier managed to take a camera with him and showed the pictures.
                      12. -1
                        4 August 2025 18: 05
                        What are you getting at? You obviously "entered" the conversation, but didn't understand its meaning.
      2. + 12
        2 August 2025 08: 57
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        Name at least one real military operation in which the landing force participated as landing force, and not as infantry?
        We need rapid response forces, sabotage forces, but this is not a type of armed forces, but special units.

        Indeed, the author himself admits that parachute landing is exotic for the Airborne Forces, it was used only in exercises. IMHO, all motorized infantry should be brought up to the level of training of the Airborne Forces, though without breaking walls with their hands and smashing bottles over their heads. laughing
        1. -3
          2 August 2025 18: 14
          So you are saying that the infantry is lagging behind the level of training of the airborne troops?
          1. +3
            2 August 2025 18: 25
            Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
            So you are saying that the infantry is lagging behind the level of training of the airborne troops?

            Well, since our Airborne Forces are positioned as ELITE troops, then this is implied. Not just because of the uniform!
            1. -5
              2 August 2025 18: 28
              That is, you yourself have no idea whether this is true or not?
              1. +2
                2 August 2025 18: 29
                Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                That is, you yourself have no idea whether this is true or not?

                And you?
                We are having an uninteresting discussion.
          2. AMG
            +1
            2 August 2025 23: 43
            It seems that it really is lagging behind. More careful selection based on physical characteristics. And what can you say about the national composition of the Airborne Forces in Soviet times?
            1. +1
              3 August 2025 08: 02
              The bulk of the personnel of the Airborne Forces in Soviet times were Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians. There were also conscripts from Chuvashia and the Tatar Republic. There could be several people from Central Asia in a regiment. The officer corps was Russian and Ukrainian.
              1. AMG
                +1
                3 August 2025 15: 42
                Veterans confirm, they remember a few Georgians. General A. Lebed in his book names Lithuanians, also a few. A tendency.
                1. +1
                  3 August 2025 17: 16
                  There was one Georgian in our battalion - Georgy Ivanov. Oddly enough, his last name was Russian. He was called up in the fall of 1979, that is, before Afghanistan.




                  We had one Georgian in our battalion - Georgy Ivanov. Oddly enough, his last name was Russian. There were several Lithuanians in the regiment, but they were demobilized before Afghanistan. In training, our platoon sergeant was Lithuanian - Pasha Stochkus.
                  1. AMG
                    0
                    3 August 2025 22: 18
                    Thanks for the answers! So the data matches. If it's not a secret, please tell us the stages of your service.
                    1. -1
                      3 August 2025 22: 54
                      You can read the published articles on my page: these essays and essays describe the stages of service, starting with the training division. And if you have the desire and time to read the book, here is the link. It is described in more detail. https://proza.ru/2024/08/29/1051
                      1. AMG
                        +1
                        3 August 2025 23: 21
                        Thank you! The prose has opened up.
      3. +3
        2 August 2025 08: 57
        In the Russian Federation, the border troops have already been destroyed. Now some people have a reformist itch to destroy the Airborne Forces? In principle, the Airborne Forces are those same rapid reaction forces.
        1. -1
          4 August 2025 14: 37
          Quote: Grencer81
          In the Russian Federation, the border troops have already been destroyed. Now some people have a reformist itch to destroy the Airborne Forces?

          Not destruction, but bringing it into line with the current reality. In which the Airborne Forces have been preparing for more than half a century for something that they themselves do not use in any of the wars.
          No one is against airmobility and airborne assault. No one is against leaving part of the Airborne Forces in the parachute-assault variant, to capture the same landing sites.
          But everyone would really like to know - why arm the Airborne Forces with parachute-landing equipment, if there is no technical or tactical possibility for such a landing, and the Airborne Forces themselves have long been used as troops for qualitative reinforcement of the ground forces?
      4. +3
        2 August 2025 09: 56
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        Maybe they landed in the rear and captured a bridgehead?
        You are just like the British: they believed that landing could only be by sea (and they screwed up Crete), and you believed that it could only be by parachute.
      5. +1
        2 August 2025 10: 10
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        We need rapid response forces, sabotage forces, but this is not a type of armed forces, but special units.

        And I wrote above that the troops themselves, trained for complex pinpoint operations, including deep behind enemy lines, have not lost and will not lose their relevance. And the issues of their organizational structure should be decided by highly competent people, taking into account all available information/statistics - whether they will remain a separate branch of the armed forces with divisions or in tactical-level formations of the Special Operations Forces...
        1. +1
          2 August 2025 11: 59
          dp light infantry can be the one that can be transferred by helicopters and transported by plane by landing method, namely paratroopers, probably divisions don't need very rare specialists, but undoubtedly having a couple of parachute regiments is simply necessary) and light infantry not in the sense of nerds in glasses with dystrophy, but like Rhodesian
      6. AMG
        +1
        5 August 2025 11: 21
        Lately, many have been fascinated by the names of air defense and MANPADS. It seems that they are literally under every tree and cancel out all other weapons. Many have forgotten, or perhaps did not know, how at the very beginning two Ukrainian helicopters, using the folds of the terrain, penetrated deep into the territory and burned a small oil depot. Or when helicopters made several flights to the surrounded "Azovstal" to evacuate someone. Armed struggle, besides everything, is a creative matter. A couple of years ago, who would have thought that motorcycles would come in handy, and somewhere even hang gliders. The time will come and the Airborne Forces may come in handy for their intended purpose.
  3. -5
    2 August 2025 06: 28
    The VDV gravediggers do not understand that the VDV is the same infantry, winged, but infantry. And after landing, no matter by what method, they conduct a regular combined arms battle in the enemy's rear.
    1. + 17
      2 August 2025 07: 36
      But the infantry has tanks, heavy artillery, weapons, and the Airborne Forces have weak, useless equipment, inferior even to the BMP. Why would the infantry need to parachute? The limit: delivery by plane to an airfield, deep in their rear. Combined arms combat is conducted by infantry with powerful weapons. Air defense, including MANPADS, the Airborne Forces' gravediggers.
      1. -3
        2 August 2025 08: 38
        For several years now, the Airborne Forces have been provided with tanks and large-caliber artillery along with the standard D-30. Plus, they were going to provide helicopter units. And the BMD and BMP are not much different in terms of protection and armament.
        1. +7
          2 August 2025 08: 52
          So they turn into motorized riflemen?
        2. +9
          2 August 2025 09: 25
          tanks and large-caliber artillery were provided

          And what about the landing of these? As far as I know, no way. So is it landing or infantry?
          1. -8
            2 August 2025 09: 49
            When needed - landing force, when necessary - highly mobile and highly effective infantry. And heavy equipment can be delivered by landing aircraft to the airfields closest to the combat zone.
            1. +7
              2 August 2025 10: 14
              Do you understand that your text contains mutually exclusive sentences?
              1) When necessary - landing force, when necessary - highly mobile and highly effective infantry. 2)...heavy equipment...to the airfields closest to the combat zone.
              By the time heavy equipment from the nearest airfield reaches the combat zone, there will be only a pittance of fuel left and everyone will die waiting for it if the landing force encounters heavy enemy fire support.
              As they say, either take off the cross or put on your underwear.
              As a separate branch of the armed forces, the Airborne Forces have already exhausted themselves. Mobile units are needed for every large military formation and directly within them.
              All this around the Airborne Forces reminds me of how in the past many held on to the cavalry and their place on the battlefield. After all, it is also mobile infantry and what is the result: microscopic use and in specific areas and nothing more. So they gradually died out.
              1. +2
                2 August 2025 17: 59
                It's not the Airborne Forces that have exhausted themselves, it's the Russian army that doesn't reach the level of the Soviet one
                Normally, it should be a desert storm or Iraq in 2003, when the air force bombed everything they could, suppressed everything
                and then came the landings, which, in front of the advancing ground forces, captured various strategic and tactical objects
                what is happening in Ukraine now is at the level of the First World War, naturally what kind of landings, what kind of air superiority, what can we talk about here
                In reality, Russian airborne forces could be used somewhere in Syria, where the Russian Aerospace Forces could control the airspace, and then parachutes, helicopters and anything else could be used to create encirclements of various scales for the local chebureks
              2. -1
                3 August 2025 19: 29
                Have you heard about Gastomel? Usually, the landing force is dropped to the calculated depth, carries out the task and takes up defensive positions, waiting for the main breakthrough forces with heavy equipment to arrive. All this is calculated in advance and synchronized in time, at least at the planning stage. And using the paratroopers as a fire brigade is either stupidity or a planning failure. But in the current state of the self-reforming Army, any miracles are possible. And be careful about the "crosses". And the Airborne Forces are one of the key pillars on which the RF Armed Forces are based.
              3. -1
                4 August 2025 14: 45
                Quote: T-100
                By the time heavy equipment from the nearest airfield reaches the combat zone, there will be only a pittance of fuel left and everyone will die waiting for it if the landing force encounters heavy enemy fire support.

                And if you parachute landing near the front line, then while the remnants of the landing force, not battered by the enemy’s air defense, are gathering, everyone will die waitingAnd then the landing force itself will die, having only the supplies that can be landed.
                Quote: T-100
                As a separate branch of the military, the Airborne Forces have already exhausted themselves.

                Nope. The Airborne Forces are the airmobile reserve of the General Staff, used to reinforce individual sectors.
                And by refusing to use parachute drops, it will be possible to strengthen both the equipment and the staff. So that it doesn't turn out like before: a landing force arrives to support the motorized riflemen - but it itself needs to be supported and strengthened, because it has neither artillery nor normal air defense.
                Quote: T-100
                It is also mobile infantry, and what is the result: microscopic use and in specific areas and nothing more.

                Well, I wouldn't call it a cavalry-mechanized group (by pre-war standards, a full-fledged corps... armored cavalry smile ) and the regular use of cavalry on the outer contours of the "cauldrons" with microscopic use.
            2. 0
              3 August 2025 17: 52
              "when necessary - super mobile and super effective infantry"...And if necessary right away without a pause? Drop the heavy equipment and run to be more mobile?
      2. +5
        2 August 2025 10: 16
        Quote: Victor Sergeev
        But the infantry has tanks, heavy artillery, weapons, and the airborne forces have weak, useless equipment.

        Apparently, in the future we will no longer see massive landings from the regiment and above, which are so beautifully shown in Soviet training films. But reconnaissance and sabotage raids and tactical landings themselves will still be carried out. As for the equipment, it is unlikely to remain unchanged, given the new challenges and changes in the conduct of military operations.
      3. 0
        2 August 2025 12: 25
        Well, deliver tanks, heavy artillery systems and air defense systems of the Buk, Tor, S-300V level by plane. And do it quickly.
      4. AMG
        0
        4 August 2025 18: 16
        Do you remember the radius and altitude of the MANPADS?
      5. AMG
        +2
        7 August 2025 17: 40
        The VDV were not created for combat in an open field with combined arms formations. They were intended for operations in the enemy rear at a considerable depth to capture important objects, prevent reserves from approaching the front line, etc. In terms of armament, their equipment is comparable, take for example the BMD-2 and BMP-2. They were armed with PTRS and MANPADS, even MLRS BM-21V, etc.
      6. AMG
        +1
        12 August 2025 13: 00
        Have you compared the armament of the BMP and BMD? Don't the Airborne Forces have the same ATGMs and MANPADS? When have you ever seen a combined arms battle on TV?
  4. +3
    2 August 2025 06: 29
    With the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, the need for such large-scale operations disappeared: today the Airborne Forces face completely new challenges.

    It has not disappeared anywhere, the Russian Federation is entering the period of Cold War 2.0, NATO countries with the USA at the head will be behind our opponents, i.e. they will receive support simply for their readiness to fight the Russians. The Russian Armed Forces have become weaker relative to the SA, it is not possible to carry out a strategic air defense operation within the framework of a frontal offensive operation in/on Ukraine.
    1. -5
      2 August 2025 07: 38
      Frontal operations are possible, but regular armed forces must be used. Yes, there will be losses, at first, but then a deep breakthrough without the enemy being able to organize a defense.
      1. +4
        2 August 2025 16: 11
        Yes, there will be losses at first, but then there will be a deep breakthrough without the enemy being able to organize a defense.

        And if it doesn't happen? It's okay, the women will give birth again?
      2. 0
        3 August 2025 07: 00
        Frontal operations are possible, but regular AF must be used.

        At the beginning of the SVO there are two big problems, even three.
        1. It won’t be possible to fight with just regular armed forces; the Russian Federation can’t afford to maintain such an army; we are coming to an army similar to the Soviet model of the 80s, made up of regular, cadre, and cadre formations.
        2. There are no means of protecting armored vehicles from 3rd generation ATGMs.
        3. Could not reset satellite communication via Starlink.
        4. Now a 4th problem has been added, the equipment has been knocked out, means of protection (mass, serial) against FPV drones are needed.
  5. -8
    2 August 2025 06: 56
    At one of the meetings on Airborne Forces Day, Vasily Filippovich's son, Colonel General Vitaly Vasilyevich Margelov, spoke about the reaction of the Airborne Forces Commander to the decoding of the abbreviation VDV by his soldiers. Vitaly Vasilyevich said: "When he first heard the decoding - "Uncle Vasya's troops", he said: "What fools they came up with." (Vasily Filippovich used another word for fools, I can't write it down, they won't let me. Author's note.) What did they come up with? What does Uncle Vasya have to do with it? The Airborne Forces are troops for war. They must be the most mobile, the most combat-ready and the most daring branch of the military!" And, as you know, continued Vitaly Vasilyevich, these are the troops that were created.
    1. + 13
      2 August 2025 07: 40
      That was a long time ago. With the advent of anti-aircraft missiles, the VDV's MANPADS have become an anachronism, the infantry, which foolishly (a requirement for landing) uses weak equipment, which has limitations in weight, armor and weapons.
      1. 0
        2 August 2025 18: 16
        The Americans and NATO have been attacking all sorts of countries since the 90s, Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia and all sorts of countries, they fire all sorts of anti-aircraft weapons at their planes and helicopters and nothing, they continue to fly and bomb, bomb, bomb
        and where, where is the conquest of air supremacy over Ukraine???
        If aviation is not capable of providing this, then what kind of airborne assault can we talk about?

        The Americans have developed a light tank that weighs as much as the T-72A and they can't accept it into service because it's too heavy

        Our airborne forces can count on a BMD with the firepower of a BMP, of which three or four are crammed into an Il-76 due to its weight, but what can the Americans count on, a Humvee, or at best a striker with a machine gun, with its weight of 18 tons or more
        the heavier the equipment, the fewer pieces the plane can carry, so the BMP-3 was abandoned, it was too heavy
    2. +6
      2 August 2025 13: 54
      Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
      This must be the most mobile, the most combat-ready and the most daring branch of the military!” And, as you know, continued Vitaly Vasilyevich, it was precisely these troops that were created

      To rave about plans for mass (with the use of entire units) parachute landings deep behind enemy lines - in conditions when the range of heavy anti-aircraft missiles has already reached several hundred kilometers (and both ours and NATO have even "riveted" quite a few means of delivering nuclear weapons of this class) - this had to be thought up...
      In fact, the practical implementation of Margelov's ideas was completely impossible. Nevertheless, under the pressure of "Batya" in the USSR they put together separate Airborne Troops, created many types of special combat equipment (inferior to all others in all parameters, but suitable for parachute drops), riveted out a wild amount of this equipment and... NEVER AND NOWHERE (except for training) used it for its intended purpose.
      Also, at one time, the Polish cavalry was terribly proud (up until 1939) of the excellent training in fencing skills with sabres and lances.
      1. -7
        2 August 2025 14: 18
        Again, parachutes are giving me no peace...
        1. +1
          3 August 2025 17: 32
          They differ from others only by parachutes, nothing else. Then there was no point in writing your scribbles specifically about the Airborne Forces, if you do not understand such a key concept - the method of landing.
          1. -1
            3 August 2025 17: 55
            Should I write about the landing methods again? What's the problem, didn't you learn the material the first time?
            1. +1
              3 August 2025 17: 58
              And what method of landing distinguishes the Airborne Forces from others? laughing Don't write about the parachute, otherwise they will make you nervous.
              1. -1
                3 August 2025 18: 09
                The Airborne Troops are a separate branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation and are the reserve of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
                1. +1
                  3 August 2025 18: 11
                  I never heard about the landing method that distinguishes the VDV from others. Instead, there is a dull copypasta. Which was to be proven. laughing
                  1. -1
                    3 August 2025 18: 14
                    Trolling, trolling... so I want to hear an answer from you. Or maybe you wrote an article on this topic? At the same time, I would like to know about the Marines: why don't they jump with a parachute?
                    1. +1
                      3 August 2025 18: 21
                      Well, is that all on the landing topic? There will still be no answer.

                      And how are the Airborne Forces different from others? laughing
                      1. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 30
                        Try to structure your sentences more logically and completely. And don't forget to tell us about the Marines. I'm waiting.
                      2. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 34
                        I'm waiting - when you can give birth to what method of landing the Airborne Forces were created for. When you answer my question, which I asked you earlier, then you will get an answer about the Marines. So go ahead - what method of landing were the Airborne Forces created for?
                      3. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 35
                        So how are the Marines different from the Airborne Forces and why are they banned from parachute jumping?
                      4. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 38
                        Marines land from ships, airborne troops from planes.

                        Now tell us, what is the main type of landing for the Airborne Forces and Marines? laughing
                      5. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 40
                        We don't have any kind of airborne or marine landing, we live in an apartment. What kind do you have?
                      6. +1
                        3 August 2025 18: 51
                        You don't have it. laughing You are a "gifted" author, who says that in order to get out of a helicopter standing on the ground, you need to be a paratrooper, no less. As Vladimir told us here about Gostomel - only the Airborne Forces can parachute like that.
                      7. -1
                        3 August 2025 19: 44
                        What is this helicopter standing on the ground? We were talking about marines who are not allowed to jump with a parachute.
                      8. 0
                        3 August 2025 19: 50
                        "What is this helicopter standing on the ground?" - there is a helicopter, there is the ground. It is standing on it. Only the Airborne Forces can get out of it and onto the ground. Here is your example of an Airborne Forces operation that only they can do.
                        "But we were talking about Marines, who are not allowed to jump with a parachute." - Yes, jumping with a parachute from landing ships is prohibited. But you can, it won't hurt you.
                      9. -1
                        3 August 2025 19: 54
                        Maybe it's from your article about a standing helicopter? I definitely don't have one. And regarding jumping from ships, you've probably already jumped. In general, you should write a good article on this topic, since only your family knows about you now, but this way the entire Internet will be aware of your powerful intellect.
                      10. 0
                        3 August 2025 20: 36
                        "I definitely don't have that. Maybe it's from your article about a standing helicopter?" - this is from your cries about Gostomel. Like - an example of an airborne operation. When you were stuffed with minuses and asked - what's so difficult about getting out of a helicopter, you started to blur your brain and drift off to other topics.

                        "As for jumping from ships, you've probably already jumped." - no, you. These are your words - "The interlocutor assures me that this does not happen in principle. According to him, the Marines are not trained for this." It is your Marines who are trained for parachute jumps. But since I am sure of their mental abilities, the problem is probably in yours - so you jumped. It is precisely after this that you cannot understand the purpose of the Airborne Forces.

                        "since so far only your family knows about you," - ohhhh!! A man with an Airborne Forces avatar starts to drag his family into it. Very decent, when there is nothing to say on the topic. You can immediately feel - "honor and conscience". laughing
                      11. -2
                        3 August 2025 21: 25
                        There were no shouts from my side. Why are you trying to finish my thoughts? To laugh at the operation in Gostomel is, to put it mildly, not nice. Although it is called something else. And did you and your family not understand the point? It happens. Well, let's continue about the Marines: why don't they jump with a parachute? Because they can't jump from a ship. The thought is profound, I remember "The Red Chief": "Why does the wind blow? Because the trees sway."
                      12. 0
                        4 August 2025 18: 18
                        "There were no screams from my side." - how could there not be, there were. And very loudly. When you were asked in the comments to give an example of the landing of the Airborne Forces - you gave Gostomel, when you were told that anyone can parachute from a landed helicopter, a certain substance flowed out of you. That's all. And I was not the first to ask you about Gostomel, in response from you - a leak.

                        "To laugh at the operation in Gostomel is, to put it mildly, not nice." - give me an example of laughter, otherwise you are just a chatterbox.

                        "And you didn't understand the meaning with your family? It happens." - you can immediately feel the "fighter". First he'll shit, and then - you didn't understand the meaning. Then don't be offended when you don't understand the words about your family.

                        "Well, let's continue about the Marines: why don't they jump with a parachute?" - They jump, and how. I didn't know about that. I thought the Airborne Forces jumped. But it turns out the Marines do. And if you consider that they also parachute from the sea, then your Airborne Forces turn into a useless thing, why do they need them if there are Marines.
                        Excellent - the result of the conversation was what was said in most of the comments here - the Airborne Forces are an unnecessary rudiment. laughing You confirmed it. good
                      13. -2
                        4 August 2025 18: 29
                        No, my dear, there will be no more conversation with you after the words about Gostomel.
                      14. -1
                        4 August 2025 18: 34
                        And you, the "author", are a chatterbox. An example of my words where you tweeted - "Laughing at the operation in Gostomel is, to put it mildly, not nice."
                        Well, I'm waiting for where I laughed.
                      15. +1
                        4 August 2025 19: 11
                        When you were told that anyone could parachute from a landed helicopter, a certain substance began to flow out of you.

                        You are absolutely right, anyone can land, the question is in the effectiveness of this landing. In a tactical airborne assault, motorized riflemen will have to leave their combat vehicles in the non-landing group, and even then, the calculation of the helicopter requirements for the landing of a motorized rifle battalion without reinforcement includes 17 Mi-8, 15 Mi-6 (10 units in storage as of 2013) and up to 8 Mi-26 (33 for the army and 10 for the Russian Guard).
                      16. -1
                        4 August 2025 19: 31
                        "Anyone can land, the question is in the effectiveness of this landing." - it all started with the fact that the author was asked to give examples (not me) of the actions of the Airborne Forces. The author gave Gostomel as an example. When he was told that any units could have landed there, in principle, since there was no parachute drop, and any units could exit from vehicles standing on the ground, he took offense at everyone. Comments like "Your comment only speaks of a very strong resentment towards the paratroopers, nothing more" started pouring out of him. Kindergarten.

                        My argument was about what makes the VDV unique. I claimed that it is that they can land from the air and that they are designed for this. But the author and you say that this is not their unique property. Well, okay, let it be so. And apparently many commentators are right that the VDV is a rudiment these days.
                      17. 0
                        4 August 2025 19: 50
                        He started making comments like: "

                        But now I am talking to you, including about Gostomel?
                        But the author and you say that this is not their unique property.

                        And what does uniqueness have to do with it? How can several battalions and companies replace 5 divisions and separate brigades?
                        The essence of the Airborne Forces is in the orientation towards airborne assault, both by air and by landing, this can be implemented in different ways. That's all
                      18. -1
                        4 August 2025 20: 04
                        And what does uniqueness have to do with it? - in this - "The essence of the Airborne Forces is in the orientation towards airborne assault," - I was talking about this. But even in this they were not unique, according to you.

                        "How can several battalions and companies replace 5 divisions and separate brigades?" - i.e. the Airborne Forces are unique and there is nothing to replace them with. And their uniqueness lies in their quantity, not in the method of landing.
                      19. 0
                        4 August 2025 20: 14
                        And their uniqueness lies in their quantity, not in the method of landing.

                        Not in quantity, but in the quality/quantity ratio. And yes, there is nothing to replace them with. There just haven't been any situations yet when it would be a chore. For example, the Georgians block the Roki Tunnel with a terrorist attack in 2008, they would have to break through the Georgian Military Road and simultaneously land troops.
                      20. -1
                        4 August 2025 20: 28
                        "Not in quantity, but in the ratio of quality/quantity." This is quantity. Or do you also think that only the Airborne Forces are high-quality, and all the others are so-so.
                        "And yes, there is nothing to replace them with." - create marines instead of them, nothing will change negatively. But work with the coast will be positive.
                        "There just haven't been any situations yet when it would be a real emergency" - there was, that same Gostomel. And in general the beginning of the SVO. But alas, the VDV as an airborne assault force couldn't work there. And it will be like that in the current situation - everywhere. The times when it was possible to drop someone in large quantities from planes are gone, now it's dangerous to simply transport them near LBS.

                        "We would have had to break through the Georgian Military Road and simultaneously land troops." - but again, we didn't have to do that. And now the SSO would be doing that, not the Airborne Forces.
                        All this leads to the fact that "orientation towards airborne assault" does not work. But the rest and others can.
                      21. +1
                        4 August 2025 20: 40
                        Or do you also think that only the VDV are of high quality, and all the others are so-so.

                        Orientation towards airborne assault implies not only airborne training, but also organizational and staff differences, this can be as now - special equipment - BMD/SAO, as well as foot companies/battalions, large in number, with portable heavy weapons and equipment such as "Kraka" in the landing group, for transportation by Mi-8 helicopters.
                        But working with the coast will be a plus.

                        Only the Russian Federation has already fought 5 major wars, and all on land.
                        but again I didn't have to do it

                        Because the Georgian elite sabotaged the conflict, they were offered to blow up tunnels, including those to Abkhazia.
                        And now the Special Operations Forces would be doing this, not the Airborne Forces.

                        Error, SpN are not designed for combined arms combat, their main job is reconnaissance, guidance of high-precision weapons, and partly sabotage. Raids require conditions.
                      22. -2
                        4 August 2025 20: 51
                        "but also organizational and staff differences, it could be like now - special equipment" - you're talking directly about the Marines.

                        "infantry companies/battalions, large in number, with portable heavy weapons and equipment like the "Krak" in the airborne group, for transportation by Mi-8 helicopters" - motorized riflemen can do this and no worse than the Airborne Forces.

                        "Only the Russian Federation has been fighting 5 times already, and all on land." - but that's not all. Marines were needed on the Ukrainian Black Sea coast. But there aren't enough of them.
                        "Because the Georgian elite" - it doesn't matter what was there. The fact is - the Airborne Forces did not work there.

                        "Error, the Special Forces are not designed for combined arms combat," - "For example, the Georgians block the Roki Tunnel with a terrorist attack" - it is the Special Forces that deal with terrorism, not the Airborne Forces.
                        "Raids require conditions." - No, you need to train for these conditions. SSO generally work everywhere, both in Ukraine and abroad. So they are ready for any raids.
                      23. 0
                        4 August 2025 21: 05
                        Motorized riflemen can do this too, and no worse than the airborne forces.

                        They can’t, the motorized riflemen have armor or automobile equipment as their base, and to transport the UAZ-469 and GAZ-66 they need the missing Mi-6 or the few Mi-26s.
                        But there is not enough quantity.

                        The required quantity of what? Modern TSh, means of protection against anti-ship missiles? Aircraft - tankers, for the Air Force to work at a great distance from airfields for the needs of the landing force?
                        It is the Special Operations Forces that deal with terrorism, not the Airborne Forces.

                        The war of 08.08.08 is a high-intensity conflict, not a fight against illegal armed groups.
                        No, you need to train for these conditions.

                        And where in South Ossetia did you see conditions for the “hit and run” tactics?
                        The fact is that the Airborne Forces did not work there.

                        They worked, they just arrived by train. Well, the enemy took into account the shortcomings and our new enemy considers his country as a resource for war, and not a house where he will live.
                  2. AMG
                    +1
                    5 August 2025 10: 41
                    If you didn't hear it, then it just wasn't meant to be. So the problem isn't just with hearing.
        2. +1
          4 August 2025 14: 52
          Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
          Again, parachutes are giving me no peace...

          Well, what can you do if parachutes have turned into something like cavalry lances - a status item, looks good for show, but has never been used in combat in half a century.
          As soon as the Airborne Forces reach war, there is either a landing operation or transportation by rail.
          The best example of the Airborne Forces in war is the 345th Airborne Regiment in Afghanistan, which, under the influence of real combat missions, mutated over the course of a year into a light motorized rifle regiment on land-based armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, and even with T-62 and D-30.
      2. +4
        2 August 2025 15: 23
        Also, at one time, the Polish cavalry was terribly proud (up until 1939) of the excellent training in fencing skills with sabres and lances.

        good good good good good good good good good good
      3. 0
        2 August 2025 18: 31
        terrible anti-aircraft missiles, for some reason they didn't stop the Americans and NATO, but that's not the point
        I propose to abandon the airborne forces along with the aviation, it is also a very unuseful branch of the military, it only wastes expensive resources, we need to churn out more tanks with barbecues

        and who do our BMDs give way to???
        What can the enemy counter with against a landing force deployed in the rear, unarmored pickups, self-propelled howitzers, maybe anti-tank rifles?
        or that tanks and infantry fighting vehicles are not on the front line, but are guarding headquarters and the rear in general???
        on the other hand, what can the airborne forces of other countries count on???
        they landed a landing force and they jumped on their own in the right direction, or dropped them Humvees and Gelendvagens of all sorts for mobility, what can this compare to a tracked vehicle with an autocannon?
        1. +1
          2 August 2025 20: 25
          Of course they can provide something!!!
          Starting from the fact that in the rear units there may be infantry with grenade launchers and large-caliber machine guns. Ending with the fact that in order to suppress threats, the enemy may keep mobile forces with armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles in the near rear, which will have automatic 25-30 mm cannons with ATGMs.
          An FPV can also easily fly in from the rear. It may even take less time to fly in. Or a drone patrolling a section of the front will simply notice a breakthrough over its territory and promptly inform the air force that it should strike the landing force under the umbrella of its air defense.
          It's not the 40s or 50s now. In order to avoid serious enemy infantry, you need to land hundreds of kilometers from the front line (so that the enemy does not use units from the line of combat contact). But then the paratroopers will find themselves in the deep rear, where it is impossible to supply them, and ordinary infantry will never be able to create a sharp breakthrough in the defense so deep in enemy territory to join up with the landing force. And this is still under the condition that the enemy, having seen the breakthrough of our landing force, for some reason DOES NOT WANT to send its aviation to the landing zone to stop the breakthrough.

          You may say, "But if we have reached the point of using airborne forces, then we have achieved air superiority and suppressed the enemy's air defense, and the landing force is not in danger." And I can immediately ask, "So if complete air superiority has been achieved, then why a mass landing?" It is one thing when a sabotage group is sent to the enemy's rear for sabotage, and a mass landing is another matter. That is why it is needed. After all, if we have complete control of the air, then our infantry, with the support of our aviation, can easily break through and crush the enemy. The infantry goes to a place where the enemy is weak from the air, and as soon as resistance is detected, on the advice of the same infantry, aviation delivers pinpoint strikes, and so gradually it is possible to cover up to ten kilometers in a day.

          And there is no need to exaggerate about
          I propose that along with the airborne forces we also abandon aviation, it is also a very unuseful branch of the military
          no one has EVER suggested abandoning aviation. All questions concerned only individual classes of equipment - attack aircraft. So your example didn't make the cut at all. And regarding the fact that
          and who do our BMDs give way to???
          - they are inferior to almost everything that is higher than an armored car. And if an armored car has a large-caliber machine gun or ATGM, then even a conventional "tiger" or gun truck from a "Ural" becomes dangerous for a BMD. What is the point of creating a separate class of equipment that can be parachuted and float, but whose armor can be penetrated by a large-caliber machine gun, a simple disposable rocket-propelled grenade, a regular mortar, etc. Given that a BMD does not always carry serious weapons. So maybe then at least replace large and poorly protected BMDs with buggies? There is no protection at all, but they are faster and more mobile. Due to their smaller size, they are less noticeable. And due to their smaller weight and dimensions, they can be dropped in larger quantities (thereby dispersing soldiers for less damage by other means). At the same time, by landing many buggies, it is possible to achieve a result when the entire landing group will be on wheels, and even with a small reserve (so that in case of loss of some equipment, the paratroopers could transfer to other buggies). Consequently, there will be high mobility due to the absence of foot soldiers, everyone will be on buggies. And most importantly, such equipment during airborne landing (if you really can't wait to do an airborne landing) can be dropped from lighter aircraft, as well as helicopters. Thus freeing up heavy transport aircraft for the more important task of supplying troops or quickly deploying forces over long distances.
          1. 0
            2 August 2025 22: 37
            counteroffensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 23 and the offensive in Kursk, what resistance did they put up in the Russian rear against mobile groups in pickups and MRAs with machine guns, anti-tank missile systems and man-portable air defense systems?
            why did some mobile groups have to leave Kyiv and other places
            why did they seize so much territory in the Kursk region so quickly
            Isn't there infantry with tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers everywhere? How is that possible???
            If there can be such holes even on the border with Ukraine, then what can we say about the rest of the state border of the Russian Federation???
            how are you going to catch mobile groups created and trained according to NATO standards that will go to take out local air defense and other objects

            You can have complete dominance in the air, but until a soldier sets foot on the ground, the territory is not considered occupied
            aviation in Ukraine drops FAB-500s by the hundreds, drones constantly hunt for equipment that supplies the front, which suddenly does not want to collapse at the same moment, there is a gradual squeezing out and only
            why, when the pipeline landing party landed in Sudzha, the defense immediately collapsed, why do they use all sorts of motorcycles for assaults, just to get there and grab onto some point
            The airborne forces must occupy villages and roads behind enemy lines so that the defense at the front immediately collapses, and the landing can be supported by anything, artillery, FABs, and even Iskanders, the main thing is to give target designation

            Why not abandon aviation if air defense buried it???
            flies over its territory and only drops bombs from above
            here is the same logic as with the airborne forces, the Russian Aerospace Forces should, like NATO aviation, conduct an air offensive and cut out everything that dares to shoot at planes, all this happened in Iraq, Libya and Yugoslavia
            if the Russian Aerospace Forces were unable to defeat their neighbor's air defense, then there is no point in maintaining such a very, very expensive branch of the military that is not capable of fulfilling the tasks assigned to it

            I wonder how many armored vehicles and buggies drive with a 30mm autocannon, or even a 100mm grenade launcher, and with a fire control system, stabilizer, thermal imager, etc.
            Since when did the wheel surpass the track in cross-country ability?
            hauling buggies with helicopters is still okay, but you can't fit a lot into a plane, you can't stack them on top of each other, they all have to be in a row on the cargo deck, so what's needed is not quantity but quality, a larger armored vehicle
            buggies are in service with the airborne forces of other countries, but they haven't been noticed, and if they do haul, they're just all sorts of army vehicles
      4. AMG
        0
        3 August 2025 22: 38
        NEVER and NOWHERE because no one would dare to attack the USSR with such armed forces. The West responded to the SA's campaign in Czechoslovakia in 1968 only with newspaper hype.
      5. AMG
        0
        12 August 2025 13: 19
        Who is now raving about mass landings, who told you that? Even in Soviet times, the VTA could raise 1,5 or 2 airborne divisions, and now probably one regiment with difficulty. The development of the Airborne Forces since the end of the 60s was justified, and not so much by the desires of V.F. Margelov, but by the capabilities of the country. In terms of equipment and training, they were much stronger than similar NATO units. The point is that the military power of the USSR did not allow the implementation of the scenario of the 3rd world war. Comparison with the Polish cavalry is extremely inappropriate here.
  6. +6
    2 August 2025 07: 29
    Nane is a pointless and useless branch of the armed forces. Regular infantry, which sometimes jumps from an airplane, has airborne equipment that is unlikely to be used for its intended purpose. But the Airborne Forces do not have heavy equipment, which makes them suicide bombers when confronted with regular infantry. The maximum the Airborne Forces can do is quickly deploy troops by airplanes in the rear of their troops, and then make long marches to the front.
    Now the Airborne Forces perform the role of regular infantry in the SVO zone, as do the Marines, but at least they are really needed, they are on ships and perform specific tasks.
    1. +9
      2 August 2025 08: 44
      I agree. It's just an assault type of troops that can quickly come and do something, wait for the infantry and get out.
      Some kind of massive temporary special forces or something.
      They won't be able to cope with regular infantry. They'll grind them into dust. With all due respect to the guys from Ryazan. :)
      Mass parachute jumping is a thing of the past.
      Rapid regrouping and unloading THROUGH GROUND OPERATION as part of a regiment or division - yes. That is their nature.
      We need to change some leadership in Mongolia - that's where they'll come in handy. 12 hours and the Pskov division is in Ulan Bator.
      1. -4
        2 August 2025 15: 02
        However, the Pskov division will be in Ulan Bator in 12 hours, and not the Kantemirovskaya or Tamanskaya.
        1. 0
          2 August 2025 17: 30
          Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
          So, nevertheless, the Pskov division

          True. Dispersing the Airborne Forces is stupid. Highly mobile troops are necessary, but we need to review the methods of ensuring this mobility in accordance with the realities of our time, and gradually bring our weapons into line with them. We are not as rich as the USSR to be able to cut up all our old equipment in a Khrushchev-style manner in a couple of years. Moreover, it can still serve if we need to urgently land several regiments in Africa, while not everyone there has yet bought modern guided weapons cheaply from Bandera's businessmen in uniform.
    2. -3
      2 August 2025 15: 00
      The marines are not on ships, but in barracks.
    3. 0
      2 August 2025 18: 43
      and your religion does not allow you to give tank units to strengthen the paratroopers???
      You can even provide infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers that will carry paratroopers, form such a BTG and go to war, what's the problem
      What kind of regular infantry of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is this on heavy equipment, and all these pickups, MRAs, M113s, and just Soviet BMPs and armored personnel carriers of all kinds, these are not combat units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and who are they???

      Marines who are on ships in the steppes of Zaporozhye???
      1. +2
        4 August 2025 15: 00
        Quote: bushmaster
        and your religion does not allow you to give tank units to strengthen the paratroopers???
        You can even provide infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers that will carry paratroopers, form such a BTG and go to war, what's the problem

        Will we be providing them from the units that are on site? That is, those that have arrived to gain In fact, the paratroopers will weaken the motorized riflemen and tank crews, taking away their equipment to strengthen themselves? wink
        And I'm not even talking about what kind of equipment is usually outsourced.
        And the third question - how will the landing force interact with these attached units if they themselves have none of this? As for the same air defense, it is easier to include the air defense of the airborne divisions into the local system than to try to control the Buks or Tors using a command post designed and trained for the Strela-10 at most. I won't even mention the airborne artillery... a pitiful sight, a heartbreaking sight ©.
        1. -1
          5 August 2025 22: 07
          why steal something there, if you can use units that have suffered losses and are short of personnel and form a BTG with them, or simply strengthen an existing unit by creating a simple mobile group from different units
          1. +1
            6 August 2025 11: 12
            Quote: bushmaster
            why steal something there if you can use units that have suffered losses and are short of personnel and form a BTG with them

            The Airborne Forces' main problem is artillery and air defense. You can fill them with "Armatas", but D-30 howitzers and MANPADS at the division level are not cured by anything.
            Who are we going to take the artillery from? wink
            Quote: bushmaster
            or simply strengthen an existing unit by creating a simple mobile group of different units

            Oh, great. Split the division into battalions, creating combined groups of units with different types of equipment, with different staffing levels already at the squad level and with different training.
            1. 0
              9 August 2025 08: 31
              yes, take artillery and air defense equipment from anyone you want and give them to the paratroopers
              Even during the Second World War, combat groups and detachments were formed from tanks, self-propelled guns, infantry and artillery, both ours and the Nazis (Kampfgruppe)
              and now it's 2025, and what is this, and how is this

              and what's wrong, especially since this is an airborne division that must fight in isolation from its own forces
              at the department level???? what a wild fantasy to split parts into departments
              1. +1
                11 August 2025 10: 40
                Quote: bushmaster
                yes, take artillery and air defense equipment from anyone you want and give them to the paratroopers

                You won't be able to take it away from "whoever you want" - there are only those on the spot whom the Airborne Forces arrived to reinforce. They will be the ones taking away artillery, tanks and air defense.
                The result is a paradox. Formally, the Airborne Forces arrive to quickly reinforce the ground forces unit operating in a given direction. But in fact, they weaken them, taking away their means of reinforcement for themselves.
                Quote: bushmaster
                at the department level???? what a wild fantasy to split parts into departments

                We read carefully:
                Quote: Alexey RA
                by creating joint groups of units on different types of equipment, with different states already at the department level

                The infantry and airborne forces have different staffing levels already at the squad level. Staffing levels.
                Quote: bushmaster
                Even during the Second World War, combat groups and detachments were formed from tanks, self-propelled guns, infantry and artillery, both ours and the Nazis (Kampfgruppe)
                and now it's 2025, and what is this, and how is this

                Do you understand the difference between forming a tactical group from one unit and taking away parts of a ground force unit in favor of the guy in the blue beret?
                We have come to reinforce you, so give us your artillery, tanks and air defense... but we don’t know how to handle them, because this is the first time we’ve seen them and our staff is not designed to command them.
                1. 0
                  11 August 2025 22: 38
                  how can the airborne forces weaken anyone if they are going to fight instead of the motorized infantry that suffered losses and was withdrawn to the rear, therefore, the paratroopers who go on assaults will be affected by the same reinforcements that previously worked for the motorized infantry
                  I don't give a damn about the States, that for the first time in our country's history a hodgepodge of different units of varying levels of combat readiness is fighting, and especially with incomplete staffing, for sure
                  how they use the airborne forces for their own purposes, as motorized infantry for assaults, which are given tanks, artillery, etc., because, what, there is not enough infantry for assaults, and everything else is in a better condition
                  Why would paratroopers, instead of a full-fledged unit, take only equipment from this unit and that's it, what's the point?
      2. AMG
        +1
        12 August 2025 12: 24
        But you don’t know that the paratroopers have their own BMD (airborne combat vehicle) and BTR-D, even the self-propelled gun “Nona” with a 120 mm gun?
        1. 0
          14 August 2025 01: 15
          and how does this interfere with interaction with tanks, artillery and air defense of ground forces?
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjnbrlaaggE
          or is something or someone limiting the amount of equipment per square kilometer?
    4. 0
      2 August 2025 20: 29
      Another thing that really ruins the Airborne Forces is that they have a separate line of equipment. Inside themselves, they are great, of course, they have done a competent and complete unification when different units of equipment are built on a single platform. But the platform itself in the Airborne Forces is NOT THE SAME as in the ground forces. And even if it is possible to carry out an assault in ideal conditions, a problem will arise. As soon as the assault group meets the main forces of the infantry, they either begin to fight together with them without the ability to use their components to support their equipment. Or they are forced to go to the rear and prepare for another assault operation, thereby leaving the infantry without their support.
  7. 0
    2 August 2025 08: 24
    We don't need anything anymore. Tanks, planes, etc., etc. I thought it was Roman Skomorokhov again...
  8. +5
    2 August 2025 08: 37
    Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
    Yes, they parachuted into the rear and captured a bridgehead. And what, you've never heard of the landing in Gostomel? And for the record, the airborne troops are not a type of troops, but a separate branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.

    The landing party's task was to prepare the runway for the Il-76. It was not completed.
    Didn't dare to repeat Lugansk airport 2014
  9. +9
    2 August 2025 08: 38
    what the successful and heroic operation near Gostomel showed

    Please tell me how this operation ended.
    There is no doubt about the heroism of the paratroopers. They are heroes, yes.
  10. +8
    2 August 2025 08: 52
    And do we really need the Airborne Forces for a helicopter landing in Gostomel? The motorized riflemen are apparently incapable of this? And how did the Americans manage without the Airborne Forces in Vietnam? Articles like these are a good sign that discussions are beginning about the expediency of the existence of such an expensive branch of the military with expensive equipment as the Airborne Forces.
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 09: 00
      And the fleet, the fleet, how expensive is a "toy", isn't it? I wonder how much more expensive is the equipment of one airborne brigade than the equipment of one MRV brigade?
    2. -6
      2 August 2025 09: 06
      Is it possible to use motorized rifle units instead of airborne units in a helicopter landing? Probably, it is possible. But why? Don't they have their own tasks?
      1. +8
        2 August 2025 09: 31
        This is one of the tasks of the motorized rifle troops - participation in airborne assaults, the only way to do this is by landing. Motorized rifle troops are air transportable up to a battalion inclusive.
        1. AMG
          0
          4 August 2025 09: 55
          Such tasks have never been set, this is all theory and your desire. For actions as part of helicopter landings, airborne assault units were created, which were constantly trained in physical and moral-psychological terms. Put untrained soldiers in a helicopter and after one hour of flight see how many of them will be able to fight. Only in the movies can you smile and talk cheerfully while sitting in a helicopter. Have you ever flown on an MI-8? After the Great Patriotic War, they also decided to abandon the marines, saying that motorized riflemen would replace them. And then at one of the exercises they watched how untrained troops loaded onto ships, moored equipment, and then another sea crossing, landing on an unequipped coast ... Do you tolerate pitching well? And after 7 years in 1963 they decided to revive the marines. For serious actions, people need to be prepared, trained. Otherwise, they can agree that if a schoolchild is taught to disassemble a Kalashnikov assault rifle, he will already be a real soldier.
          1. 0
            5 August 2025 21: 01
            There are a lot of things that I can't confirm with my personal experience. For example, the existence of Putin or Australia. But they exist, even though I haven't seen them. So what next? What's the point of this speech?
            A motorized rifle battalion in tactical airborne assault exists in regulations and textbooks. It was used in Afghanistan and the SAR.
            1. AMG
              +1
              11 August 2025 08: 23
              In the regulations and textbooks it was, at first it was presented as a possible option. But then they came to the creation of airborne assault units, with specially trained personnel. What do you think, do you need to prepare the fighters for landing from a hovering helicopter or on a rope, or will it do? And after all, they haven't flown on a helicopter, you can tell right away.
    3. +3
      2 August 2025 09: 22
      That's what I'm saying, that the Airborne Forces are inappropriate now.
      They need to be reformed into assault groups or something like that.
      Which will be ready to land NOT VIA PARACHUTE LANDING within 48 hours anywhere on the globe.
      In short, we need to turn the Airborne Forces into an expeditionary corps. But without the tediousness of "we'll deploy in a month." With tanks, blackjack, and whores. Everything where it's needed.
      1. -9
        2 August 2025 09: 32
        You need to contact the General Staff with this question about reorganization and present your thoughts. But about the parachute: what do you, all the critics of the Airborne Forces, care about this parachute?
        1. 0
          2 August 2025 09: 41
          You need to contact the General Staff with this question about reformatting and present your thoughts.

          I don't give a shit about this General Staff and his ideas. Why do they keep sending me there? Is it there that decisions are made? If so, then this General Staff should be shot in full. And if not, then he should be shot twice, because what is he needed for?

          about the parachute: what do you, all you critics of the Airborne Forces, get so hung up on this parachute?

          I have 30 parachute jumps. Without instructors. Every time after the jump I can only say one thing - DO NOT TAKE A WEAPON IN THE JUMP. You fall, open up, crawl away. Always the same.
          Now you understand?
          Yes, jumps are important, yes, they are needed for specific special operations, but on a mass scale - don't kill people. They arrived, quickly unloaded the regiment at the airfield, flew away, that's it.
          Don't ruin your personnel
          1. -9
            2 August 2025 09: 48
            Parachute jumping is, first and foremost, psychological preparation and one of the means of delivering personnel.
            1. +8
              2 August 2025 09: 51
              Well, yes.
              If it's psychology, then ok. The means of delivering personnel is already debatable.
              I personally wouldn't want to hang under the dome on the BS line.
              And you?
              1. -5
                2 August 2025 16: 13
                It depends on what the order is. If they order us to hang, we will hang.
            2. +4
              2 August 2025 15: 17
              Parachute jumping is, first and foremost, psychological preparation and one of the means of delivering personnel.
              Are there not other methods of psychological preparation and means of drug delivery that are less expensive and more effective?
              1. -6
                2 August 2025 16: 18
                There is a landing method of landing. I don't know why critics of the Airborne Forces are so fixated on parachute landing. Psychological training, of course, includes not only parachute jumps, but also, for example, tank testing. This is also part of the fighter training methodology, along with parachute landing training.
                1. +1
                  2 August 2025 16: 23
                  but, for example, also testing with tanks.
                  Tank testing was part of the training program for cadets of the Orenburg Higher Anti-Aircraft Missile School (Military Institute) (OVZRU (VI)) named after G.K. Ordzhonikidze. (1936 - 2008). As you can see, back in 2008 we suddenly didn't need air defense personnel.
                  1. -5
                    2 August 2025 16: 31
                    "...back in 2008, we didn't need air defense personnel." And now it's the turn of the Airborne Forces?
                    1. +2
                      2 August 2025 16: 34
                      Do you understand sarcasm or not? I mean that tank testing is a standard exercise in military educational institutions of the USSR. Well, and who appointed Marshal Taburetkin, who started the reform of the Armed Forces, I hope you know.
                      1. -6
                        2 August 2025 16: 40
                        I understand what the commentators are writing. And the gist of the comments from the critics of the Airborne Forces is this: the Airborne Forces, from the moment of their creation until now, have been an absolutely useless branch of the military (critics do not call it a branch of the military, but a type), which eats up all their money and does not allow the real troops, not the toy ones, which the Airborne Forces are, to develop normally. And they have not carried out any operations in the 95 years of their existence; the infantry, tank crews and artillerymen do everything for them. And all the other comments are of this kind.
                      2. -1
                        2 August 2025 16: 56
                        Well, and all the other comments are like that.
                        Highlight the main thing in this pile of comments, often stupid. The main thing is that because of the PR (the majestic airborne assaults) the majority of people have the impression that the Airborne Forces are parachutes, including with armored vehicles, which have duralumin armor. In reality, the Airborne Forces are a tool that must be used skillfully. That's all.
                      3. -1
                        2 August 2025 17: 50
                        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                        And the point of the comments is that they have not carried out any operations in the 95 years of their existence; the infantry does everything for them

                        The Airborne Forces carried out many combat operations, and only those who were not interested in them know about them. The reproach is not even directed at them, but at the military leadership, that they carried out these operations without parachute landing, but with weapons weakened by the requirements for the presence of such a possibility. And that using such weapons, the Airborne Forces acted less effectively than they could have, and suffered more losses than they could have suffered with heavier weapons, the refusal to use which in the Airborne Forces turned out to be unjustified.
                      4. +1
                        3 August 2025 18: 42
                        to this day remain an absolutely useless branch of the military

                        That's not the point, it's just that our infantry has traditionally been a stepchild in terms of combat training, manning and equipment, while it has been the "queen of the fields" in the conflicts of recent decades.
                  2. AMG
                    +1
                    11 August 2025 08: 27
                    Most likely, this is an initiative of local authorities to increase psychological stability.
                2. +1
                  3 August 2025 17: 45
                  "I don't know why critics of the Airborne Forces are so fixated on parachute landings." - because that's exactly what they were created for as a branch of the military - for landings using parachutes. Just as the Marines were created specifically for landings from water to land.
                  1. 0
                    3 August 2025 17: 51
                    Well, well! And they started teaching me. Parachute drop is one of the landing methods, in addition to the landing and combined. Marines also land not only from water to land.
                    1. -1
                      3 August 2025 17: 55
                      "Parachute drop is one of the methods of landing," - this method is what distinguishes the Airborne Forces from the rest. But you apparently don't know
                      "Also, the Marines land not only from water to land." - this is their main task and they are designed for this. This is also a secret for you, apparently.
                      Now strain your "brain" and think about why the Marines don't jump with parachutes, and the Airborne Forces don't have ships in their arsenal. laughing
                      Although judging by your answers, it is very difficult for you.
                      1. -2
                        3 August 2025 18: 03
                        "...think about why the Marines don't jump with parachutes..." Frankly, you've cornered me with your intellect, I don't even know what to answer. And really, why don't the Marines jump, as you say, with parachutes? Of course, I would say it a little differently: they don't make parachute jumps. But what can you expect from me? So maybe you could enlighten me: why don't the Marines jump with parachutes?
                      2. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 09
                        "Why don't the Marines jump with a parachute?" - maybe because it's not their job? Or is it the job of the Airborne Forces? Apparently, that hasn't occurred to you.

                        "You've cornered me with your intellect" - it happens. Let's simplify the task so that it matches your intellect - why don't pilots "pilot" tanks? Will you be able to do it yourself or will you need help too. winked
                      3. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 12
                        This is not intelligence, but a great intelligence, I was lucky to meet a smart person. But I still don't understand why marines don't do parachute jumps?
                      4. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 10
                        Now, use your "brain" and think about why the Marines don't jump with parachutes.

                        Actually, it jumps. wink
                      5. +1
                        3 August 2025 18: 18
                        No, wink With the same success we can say that both the SSO and the GRU jump, which means they are also airborne forces.
                        The main task of the Airborne Forces is landing from the air, the Marines - from the water. Is this also difficult for you to understand?
                      6. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 27
                        Is this difficult for you to understand too?

                        However, in the Marine Corps there are units whose main task is airborne landing, by parachute or landing method, for example, the 47th separate airborne assault battalion of the 155th separate marine brigade of the Pacific Fleet.
                      7. +1
                        3 August 2025 18: 31
                        You won't believe that SSO and GRU also exist. Now I have a question for you - are they airborne troops? And SSO and GRU can also land from water - are they marines?

                        Do you really not understand what makes the Airborne Forces different from others?
                      8. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 38
                        And the SSO and GRU can also land from water - are they marines?

                        The Marines also have reconnaissance units and subdivisions, but I haven't mentioned them. Airborne assault companies and battalions are designed to conduct combined arms combat, using airborne assault as a delivery method, just like the Airborne Forces.
                      9. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 43
                        So you haven't answered the question - are the SSO and GRU marines or the VDV? They can do it from the sea and from the air.
                      10. 0
                        3 August 2025 18: 49
                        They can do it from the sea and from the air.

                        They are scouts or saboteurs, in a high-intensity conflict they often conduct reconnaissance by observation, the landing and assault units of the marines are designed for combined arms combat, like the Airborne Forces or infantry.
                      11. +1
                        3 August 2025 18: 59
                        You see, they are neither airborne troops nor marines. Although they do jump with parachutes and "come out" from the sea. So your references to groups of marines jumping with parachutes are a bit out of place. The main task of marines is landing from water. Airborne troops from the air using parachutes. Or do you have it differently, like the "author" of this opus. laughing
                      12. 0
                        3 August 2025 19: 26
                        You see, they are neither airborne forces nor marines.

                        laughing These units and parts are part of the Marine Corps, the servicemen wear the Marine Corps uniform and naval ranks, moreover, they were created for the landing of airborne troops during the conduct of naval landings.
                      13. +1
                        3 August 2025 19: 29
                        You are already getting lost in the comments - I was talking about the SSO and GRU. Or are they already part of the Marine Corps? laughing
                      14. 0
                        3 August 2025 19: 31
                        "they were created for landing airborne troops during seaborne landings." - you see, the main landing is seaborne. How unexpected it turned out. laughing
                      15. 0
                        3 August 2025 19: 46
                        You see, the main landing force is marine.

                        So what? Why should one interfere with the other?
                        You are already getting lost in the comments - I was talking about the SSO and GRU

                        Write more precisely. Once again, this is reconnaissance, as part of separate reconnaissance battalions of tank (motorized rifle) divisions there are/were also reconnaissance-landing companies, although the main purpose of the divisions is combined arms combat.
                      16. +1
                        3 August 2025 20: 21
                        "So what? Why should one interfere with the other?" - nothing interferes. There is a marine landing operation. Landing from the sea. With a probability of 0.X percent, it may involve a parachute landing. Although unlikely. We watch the marines' exercises, there are no parachutes in sight.

                        So you write it more precisely, each of your comments is one sentence. Separate semantic concepts.

                        "as part of separate reconnaissance battalions of tank (motorized rifle) divisions there are/were also reconnaissance and airborne companies," - and they jump with parachutes? laughing I'll answer right away - no, they don't have their own aviation, like the Airborne Forces. They also don't land from the sea, because they don't have their own ships like the Marines. That's what I'm talking about - each one is tailored to its own purpose. The Airborne Forces have parachutes, the Marines have ships, and your words that they supposedly also have "reconnaissance and cooks with medics" are not relevant to the general issue.
                      17. 0
                        3 August 2025 20: 35
                        We watch the Marines' training, there are no parachutes in sight.

                        30 seconds search.
                        https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/2022231314-zeIET.html
                        and they jump with parachutes?

                        Why should there be our own aviation? Marines jump from the boards of naval aviation, the same Mi-8 and An-26.
                      18. 0
                        3 August 2025 21: 05
                        "30 seconds of searching." - this is not serious. A small group of people jump with a parachute. From a helicopter. This is how they jump in any club and even more. Compare with the exercises and landing of the Airborne Forces.
                        And look at what a marine landing from water looks like - their main purpose. By the way, you can also tell us that the marines have cooks and drivers.


                        "Why should there be our own aviation?" - "interdepartmental coordination problems". It's strange that you haven't heard.

                        So what do you want to prove to me? That the Marines parachute in the same way as the Airborne Forces? No. I'll tell you again - the Marines parachute from the water, the Airborne Forces from the air. The fact that the Marines have 3 people jumping with a parachute does not change their main purpose.
                      19. 0
                        4 August 2025 17: 11
                        A small group of people jump with a parachute.

                        Company.
                        "interdepartmental coordination issues."

                        Naval Aviation.
                        That the Marines parachute in the same way as the Airborne Forces? No.

                        That is, they are landing by landing or parachute and there are not three of them, as you exaggerate. In brigades of two combined arms battalions, one is an airborne assault battalion, except for the 61st brigade of the Northern Fleet, there are +2 cadre battalions, in the 177th separate marine regiment there is an airborne assault company in each battalion.
                      20. 0
                        4 August 2025 18: 31
                        Excellent! You also convinced me (as did the author) that the Airborne Forces are not a necessary thing. After all, the Marines can parachute anywhere! This is exactly what most of the comments here are about - that the Airborne Forces are not needed. And you confirmed it once again. hi
                      21. 0
                        4 August 2025 19: 39
                        Excellent! You convinced me too.

                        You confuse something laughing Nobody convinced you of anything.
                      22. +1
                        4 August 2025 19: 41
                        Well then it happened by accident. Yes
                      23. -1
                        3 August 2025 18: 35
                        The interlocutor assures me that this does not happen in principle. According to him, the Marines are not trained for this.
                      24. +2
                        3 August 2025 18: 46
                        "According to him, the Marines are not trained for this." - but it turns out that the Marines are trained for airdrops. How much interesting information can be learned from the "author". laughing
                      25. -1
                        3 August 2025 19: 48
                        So Marines do parachute jumps? Well, are you misleading me? So, it's possible, probably, from a tall ship?
                3. -1
                  5 August 2025 11: 33
                  Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                  There is a landing method of landing. I don't know why critics of the Airborne Forces are so fixated on parachute landing.

                  Because for the sake of this mythical parachute landing, the Airborne Forces have acquired a line of their own equipment, inferior in protection to the combined arms. Also, for this reason, the Airborne Forces' staffing levels have been cut so much that upon arrival "for reinforcement" they themselves have to be reinforced.
                  Why develop, put into service and equip units with weakened equipment, the main feature of which has never been used in combat conditions for half a century? Why, for the sake of this, weaken the armament of airborne units so much that the artillery and air defense of the division are at the battalion level? And most importantly - where to find equipment to drop all the power that we now have in the Airborne Forces?

                  None of the sane critics of the Airborne Forces speaks out against airmobility. But at the same time, it would be a good idea to strengthen the Airborne Forces' armament - at the cost of abandoning per capita parachute landing. Yes, none of the sane critics of the Airborne Forces speaks out against a small number of parachute landing units either.
                  1. -1
                    5 August 2025 12: 13
                    "No sane critic of the Airborne Forces speaks out against airmobility." Sane is the key word. But the comments show that a very large part of the "experts", if not the majority, belong to the opposite category.
          2. 0
            2 August 2025 17: 58
            Yes, jumps are important, yes, they are needed for specific special operations, but on a mass scale - don't kill people. They arrived, quickly unloaded the regiment at the airfield, flew away, that's it.
            Don't ruin your personnel


            The personnel will not be ruined if the branches and types of troops providing this landing can support the landing and closely interact. And provided that this landing is used when the situation requires it. They succeeded in Iraq, why are we worse!?
            1. +1
              2 August 2025 20: 04
              Oh, so if the landing is ensured, then we can also descend using parachutes.
              hehe. The problem is that with the current air defense, when literally everyone can have a MANPADS, it will not be possible to ensure a parachute landing. God forbid, we land and take off like in Afghanistan. And even then it is scary.
              1. 0
                2 August 2025 22: 54
                And what did you think...of course, any landing operation will require support and careful planning.
                But not everyone, not everywhere and not always can have MANPADS crews along their route.
                There are many IFs in all of this, you still won’t foresee everything, in this way you can safely cancel tactical helicopter landings... helicopters and everything that can be used to hit is possible.
                Nobody is saying that the only option for the Airborne Forces to enter combat should be exclusively parachute landing. But I don't think it should be excluded from the training program, situations are different.
                In my opinion, when reviewing the Airborne Assault Forces, each airborne assault regiment of the divisions should have one airborne assault battalion. The same with the Airborne Assault Brigade... each brigade should have one airborne assault battalion, the rest is airborne assault battalion.
                But here too there is a question, questions... since practically everyone, judging by the comments, wants to see in the Airborne Forces, elite assault infantry with heavy weapons (the question is, how will they actually differ from motorized riflemen?), forgetting in essence about the main specificity of this type of troops, this is their mobility and, most importantly, the speed of response. And here we need to understand what we want to "feed" this type of troops with in terms of equipment and weapons? And also a question should be asked regarding the speed of construction of new military transport aircraft
          3. +2
            2 August 2025 19: 48
            - Well, yes! But! It didn't work in Crete... But there the landing was combined: Both by parachute and by landing: Parachutists, glider pilots, transport aircraft (mountain rangers). "Market Garden" - a combined landing, Normandy - a combined landing. And all this - without much success...
          4. AMG
            0
            4 August 2025 00: 50
            How can you jump without an instructor? Straight from school, you folded your own parachute, climbed into the first plane you came across and off you go? How can you jump without weapons? Where does this pacifism come from? The game "Zarnitsa"? We flew in and flew away. But what if there is no airfield, but an open field near a bridge or a railway junction. Who are these last words addressed to? Maybe the army is not needed at all?
    4. -3
      2 August 2025 18: 47
      Motorized riflemen are trained to interact with tanks, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, not with helicopters; there are people with special airborne training for this
      tell a motorized rifleman to climb into a helicopter, he'll twirl his finger at his temple
      1. AMG
        +2
        9 August 2025 15: 29
        It is immediately obvious that there is a complete lack of understanding of military service. Any serviceman who receives such an order will carry it out without question. The army is not a kindergarten.
        1. -1
          9 August 2025 23: 54
          You can order anything you want
          but this does not cancel the expediency of using fighters according to their military service
          1. AMG
            +1
            11 August 2025 08: 37
            In combat, they don’t look at the military special forces; there’s only one thing that matters – victory.
            1. 0
              11 August 2025 22: 42
              if in battle they no longer look at the VUS, then the unit is defeated and it is just a crowd of people with different specialties who are still alive and not in captivity
              What kind of victory can we talk about in such a situation?
              1. AMG
                +1
                12 August 2025 10: 49
                You are arguing in a strange way. You put the military occupational specialty higher in rank than the military ID. It turns out that, for example, in a defense, the commander at a critical moment cannot put a signalman or a cook with a machine gun in the chain? Then it is not an army, then everyone is either captured or dead. And victory is when everyone has repelled the attack and taken the height. Do you even have this military occupational specialty?
                1. 0
                  14 August 2025 01: 24
                  if it comes to critical moments, then the soldiers can be assigned something simple, this does not mean that you can send anyone to clear a minefield, drive a tank, or make them a paratrooper
                  the attack was repelled and the height was taken, this is a normal infantry task, here you can do without a helicopter
                  1. AMG
                    0
                    14 August 2025 09: 20
                    And where is this about your beloved military specialty?
                    1. 0
                      17 August 2025 11: 12
                      here about your favorite command that works with something simple
    5. +1
      2 August 2025 20: 13
      The Americans also used paratroopers in Vietnam. Which were analogous to our Airborne Forces.
      And he acted in much the same way. For example, in the Ya Drang Valley. They flew in, gave someone a spanking, and flew away.
      But overall, neither in Ya Drang nor in Gostomel, the landing force cannot say that it was a clear victory. Because in the end, the battlefield remained in the hands of those whose asses they were going to kick.
      With all my great respect to the landing force.
    6. AMG
      +1
      4 August 2025 18: 26
      And how did the Americans use helicopters in Vietnam, where, how and when, find out in the materials about that war. Take the trouble.
  11. +7
    2 August 2025 08: 56
    Needed or not?
    What are you arguing about? Will you be able to secretly (under modern conditions) accumulate a significant number of landing aircraft on the same section of the front as the landing parties? Clearly not. Will you be able to overcome enemy air defense with a guarantee given the current level? Clearly not.
    Then we should only talk about the presence of airmobile troops.
    1. -2
      2 August 2025 18: 41
      And who is this appeal addressed to: can you, at the current level, overcome enemy air defense with a guarantee? The landing force does not suppress enemy air defense. When airborne units or Marines land, a corridor is created in the enemy's air defense, which is maintained until the landing is completed. The landing force's tasks do not include breaking through this corridor with the suppression of enemy air defense systems; this is done by those who provide the operation.
  12. +3
    2 August 2025 09: 10
    Are Airborne Forces needed in the era of high technology?

    The article is an example of journalists' constant pursuit of a catchphrase, behind which there is a completely different meaning and content. Is this the only problem with logic that all journalists have, or is it a deliberate opposition of the main thesis, put in the headline, to the content... What they teach at the journalism department is unclear...
    The article is a history of the exploits of the Airborne Forces, and a good history, which, naturally, pleases. But what does this have to do with Are Airborne Forces needed in the era of high technology? - not a word about it at all... So guess: are the Airborne Forces needed at all!???
  13. +4
    2 August 2025 09: 24
    Airborne forces tactics are a typical combined arms battle behind enemy lines.

    To implement this tactic, it is necessary to deliver fighters with BC, etc., to the enemy rear, as well as weapons that you can’t really carry on yourself. With the current level of air defense systems, this task has become extremely complicated.
    In addition to this, there are modern means of aerial reconnaissance, which easily remove the camouflage from almost any military operation.
    Therefore, IMHO, until these problems are resolved, the future of the Airborne Forces is very unclear.
    1. +3
      2 August 2025 09: 49
      Airborne forces tactics are a typical combined arms battle behind enemy lines.

      If this is the tactics of the Airborne Forces, then I must have missed something.
      Their tactics are hit and run. The Airborne Forces cannot conduct any combined arms operations due to the fact that they simply do not have heavy weapons.
      Anyone who expects a "combined arms battle" from the landing force - stupid person. You won't work against tanks in the long run with Kalashnikovs and machine guns. A quick assault, yes, no questions asked, but then you'll be crushed. Any normal infantry regiment will easily crush any airborne regiment. Of course, all other things being equal. Simply because the weapons are different. And the heroism of the airborne troops can be shoved up their ass. It won't help against armor.
      1. -4
        2 August 2025 10: 00
        Your comment speaks only of a very strong resentment towards the paratroopers, nothing more. "A discussion about the need for the Airborne Forces in the modern world can and should be conducted, taking into account new technologies and the changing nature of conflicts. However, it is important to conduct such discussions constructively and without emotions."
        1. +4
          2 August 2025 10: 05
          Uh... I don't care about the paratroopers and, moreover, I don't have any grudge against them or any other structure.
          I'm not saying that the landing force should be liquidated. Of course not.
          All I'm saying is that their modus operandi needs to be reconsidered. Massive dome landings in the style of the 1980s exercises - that's nonsense.
          Rapid deployment, 24-hour readiness, operations anywhere in the world - that should be their purpose. Not jumping thousands from airplanes.
          1. 0
            2 August 2025 10: 10
            Quote: Denis812
            Uh ...

            ... mmm. Don't you think you're tilting at windmills? No one in their right mind is going to play with mass parachute landings now. And tank battalions in the Airborne Forces appeared in 1919 (KARL!!!).

            No, if it's a writer's itch - go ahead, of course. But you write things that are completely obvious, and with an expression worthy of a better use. IMHO.
            1. +2
              2 August 2025 10: 14
              What are you talking about? Watch the latest VDV exercises. Joyful jumps.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOmTg8_oraw

              I'll be very happy if all this is disinformation and the corresponding general is already lying under the bunk and washing his cellmates' socks in his mouth. But no, it seems not.
              1. -6
                2 August 2025 10: 16
                Quote: Denis812
                Yes you what

                We are fine Yes

                Quote: Denis812
                Watch the latest VDV exercises. Joyful jumps

                We try to distinguish teachings from real application. We think a lot, and only then - we write something.
                1. +5
                  2 August 2025 10: 18
                  That is, training is something that does not need to be applied later. This is already criminal negligence. Why train something that we will not apply later?
                  This is misuse of funds. Where is our valiant prosecutor's office?
                  1. -3
                    2 August 2025 10: 27
                    Quote: Denis812
                    That is, teachings are something that does not need to be applied later.

                    Uh ... laughing

                    Well, partly, probably, out of habit. The BP program hasn't been changed yet, probably. Then - what if it comes in handy? No one knows how, but we have winked
                    1. 0
                      2 August 2025 10: 33
                      aaaa... well that's true, the army is a very conservative thing :)
                      I remember when we were leaving with PSO-1, the fire instructor in the company told me that “when winter comes, you’ll ask for snow.”
                      And over the winter I shot about 20 villains somewhere. Villain :)
          2. -5
            2 August 2025 10: 12
            And who is calling for jumping "by the thousands from airplanes"?
            1. +3
              2 August 2025 10: 16
              I don't know. Probably those who profess the method of using the Airborne Forces as jumpers from airplanes. Those who, instead of building transport aircraft, supply the Airborne Forces with parachutes.
          3. 0
            2 August 2025 18: 54
            and where did you see parachute landings on your own?
            helicopter landings were
            parachute landing from an airplane is for operations beyond the range of a helicopter, or for the delivery of equipment that the Mi-8 cannot carry
            The Il-76 won't land on an airfield destroyed by cruise and other missiles, so you'll have to jump with a parachute
      2. AMG
        0
        7 August 2025 18: 08
        Have you ever compared the staff of an airborne regiment and a motorized rifle regiment (preferably not Russian, but, for example, Turkish, Greek or Dutch). And what is a "normal" regiment? Where a soldier shoots 10 rounds a month and throws a combat grenade once a year? And in the deep enemy rear, a paratrooper must necessarily encounter a tank. And the weapons are really different.
      3. AMG
        +1
        11 August 2025 08: 45
        What is a "normal regiment"? Doesn't the Airborne Forces regiment have BMDs with guns and ATGMs, Nona self-propelled guns, D-30, etc.? It's just a bunch of whipping boys.
  14. +3
    2 August 2025 10: 14
    My God! What kind of nonsense are they talking about here? Is this a paratrooper or not... who has the right to be called a paratrooper... Pouring nonsense from "empty to empty"! Why explain this to me when I have heard "since childhood" about the Naval Landings, the Landing on Malaya Zemlya, about the Landing of motorized riflemen from armored personnel carriers in front of enemy trenches, about the Landing of special forces from covered trucks on the city streets of the city center... etc., etc.! The concepts of Landing, Landing are Multifaceted and Diverse! Or why "divide" the concepts of "airborne units" and "airborne assault units"? And the landing of airborne assault units from helicopters can rightfully be called an airborne landing! And the Airborne Forces have (or at least had!) airborne assault battalions! And what does this have to do with a parachutist or not a parachutist? During WW2, the use of gliders for airborne landings was widely planned and practiced! The Marine Corps has special forces trained in parachute jumps! But they are not called "airborne troopers"! A parachute is a means, not a sign of a "profession"! And on the topic of whether the Airborne Forces are needed... There is a 21st century concept - "ultra-long" transfer of specially trained troops on stratospheric aircraft (at an altitude of over 80 km!) to perform strategic tasks! And after this, we can reason: are the Airborne Forces needed or not? Yes, in order to maintain their "relevance" (demand), the Airborne Forces will most likely have to change! Landing from helicopters will be practiced more widely (including those specially developed within the framework of the new concept of airborne landing!)... "ground" ekranoplans (air platforms) may appear, armed with self-defense air defense systems and "some" strike weapons...! All the same, troops will be needed that have the right to say: Who else but us?"
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. -2
        2 August 2025 19: 08
        what a bunch of domes from burning planes, if in your opinion the airborne forces should not be able to jump with a parachute, that is, if an Il-76 is transporting personnel somewhere and it is hit, the pilots with parachutes can jump out and the people in the cargo compartment will fall along with the plane, because they are not supposed to have parachutes and no one has trained them to do this

        and when will the infantry arrive and where is it?
        here the aussie carried out an offensive in kursk, mobile groups are ahead, not on tanks, not on infantry fighting vehicles, not on armored personnel carriers, but on mraps and pickups, in order to advance as far as possible into Russian territory
        when the infantry approached there, how long did it take to knock out the Suzhi, huh???
        the same counteroffensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the 23rd, what was there? mobile groups on MRAs, pickups and other things, which cut through the Russian rear, and that's it, the Russian army left Kyiv and other places, why didn't the normal infantry do something Ukrainians in pickups with anti-tank missile systems, man-portable air defense systems and machine guns in their rear????
        1. 0
          11 August 2025 11: 27
          that is, if an Il-76 is transporting personnel somewhere and it is hit, the pilots with parachutes can jump out and the people in the cargo compartment will fall along with the plane, because they are not supposed to have parachutes and no one has trained them to do so

          Great comment.
          It's just a pity that transport pilots don't jump with a parachute if their plane is hit. It's enough to remember the defeat of the 76th Ukrainian Air Defense Force last year.
          How will the pilots jump technically? Over what?
          But even if we forget about the pilots - a missile hit the Il-76 - HOW will the paratroopers jump?
          Will they line up peacefully and calmly walk down the ramp?

          Have you ever been in a corncob? Have you ever jumped from one? And imagine a rocket arrives, that's it, the plane is screwed, it doesn't fly, but various debris dives to the ground, who and where and how will jump there?
          What are you talking about?
          1. 0
            11 August 2025 22: 06
            In the front part of the fuselage there are two hatches, behind the navigator's cabin on the left side there is an emergency hatch for the crew to escape from the aircraft, and an upper operational hatch for exiting onto the surface of the fuselage and wing.
            there is a ramp, there are two side hatches in the cargo compartment
            If an anti-aircraft missile hits the crop duster, it's probably a disaster due to the size of the plane
            anti-aircraft missiles have a fragmentation warhead that will not destroy the huge hull of the Il-76
            but the main thing is that you can't train the airborne forces to work with a parachute, you need pilots, but there are no paratroopers
            1. -1
              12 August 2025 14: 07
              Yes, that's probably why the pilots of the Il, which was carrying the dill victims, just sat there and crashed, knowing that they had a lot of options to leave the plane. :)
              An anti-aircraft missile arrives - that's it. Goodbye. On a fighter you can pull the handle, on a truck it's all over.
              but the main thing is that you can't train the airborne forces to work with a parachute, you need pilots, but there are no paratroopers

              Of course, we need to train the paratroopers to jump. It's just that it's very unlikely that they'll need it.
              1. -1
                14 August 2025 00: 54
                the plane has a hatch so that the crew can jump out with a parachute, why the crew couldn't jump out with it, or tried to land the plane because there were people in the cargo compartment, that's another question
                a parachute landing is either about the absence of enemy resistance, or the landing of one's troops in one's rear, in front of the advancing enemy at the breakthrough point
                1. 0
                  14 August 2025 06: 49
                  Let me tell you how, during combat operations, when an Il-76 was hit by a missile, the crew cheerfully got out of the plane through the hatch.
                  Any examples?
                  If there is - great. I don't pretend to be a know-it-all :)
                  1. 0
                    17 August 2025 11: 21
                    The Il-76 was rarely hit, but the fact that the crew had a hatch to jump out of the cockpit with a parachute
                    1. 0
                      18 August 2025 06: 57
                      So the answer to my question, did the crew jump out through the hatch - no.
                      There is also a chance for a flight attendant to fall out of a plane with 10K and survive. The only question is how many such cases the world history knows - the answer is a few. Despite the fact that planes crash every year.
    2. 0
      2 August 2025 15: 13
      There is a concept for the 21st century - "ultra-long" transfer of specially trained troops on stratospheric transport aircraft (at an altitude of over 80 km!) to carry out strategic tasks!
      Vladimir, from this point on, please, give more details.
      1. 0
        2 August 2025 18: 56
        Quote: Aviator_
        from this place, please, more details.

        What more details are there?! I don't remember too much! In short, the gist is this... This is an American concept... Americans are used to appearing in different parts of the world "instantly and unexpectedly"! And there were opportunities, and there were quite a few "third" countries in the world! But the situation began to "little by little" change! "Third" countries increasingly began to lay claim to the role of "second" and even "first"! Potential threats arose from these countries to prohibit flights of American transport aircraft through their airspace, and even threats of air defense impact! Demands to observe (respect) International Law became more insistent! And the Americans are used to roaming around the world "quickly and unexpectedly"! So one of the "powers that be and militarized" Americans came up with the idea (concept) of transferring troops at an altitude of over 80 km above the sovereign airspace of any country, because at this altitude International Law (IL) on the prohibition (permission) of the flight of aircraft does not apply! Within the framework of this concept, special stratospheric transport vehicles should be developed! Hypersonic suborbital aircraft or "transport" missiles - all this should be determined in the process development, R & D of the provisions of the concept! Well, the MP did not particularly "embarrass" America; but the "instantaneous response" plus any air defense attracted the American military very much! P.S. Well, in general terms, something like that!
        1. -1
          2 August 2025 19: 10
          Of course, from the lawyers' point of view, it may be so, but an aircraft flying at an altitude of 80 km and with a huge load - let these lawyers develop it. And fly it themselves. Because from the technical point of view, it requires a billion dollars and 20 years of work with an unclear result.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  15. +4
    2 August 2025 10: 30
    Are Airborne Forces needed in the era of high technology?

    The answer is given by the battlefield, in the SVO the marines showed themselves better than the landing force. Perhaps, having figured this out, we will get the answer.
    1. +1
      2 August 2025 16: 27
      The Marines proved themselves better than the landing force

      Where was it used for its intended purpose? It is the same infantry as the Airborne Forces, just with tanks and other heavy weapons.
      Simply put, give the Airborne Forces heavier armored vehicles and you will have the same thing - Motorized Riflemen.
      The question is, why are they needed in the conditions of the SVO, when there is motorized infantry?
      1. 0
        2 August 2025 19: 37
        Quote: Ermak_415
        Simply put, give the Airborne Forces heavier armored vehicles and you will have the same thing - Motorized Riflemen.
        The question is, why are they needed in the conditions of the SVO, when there is motorized infantry?

        Or maybe "you guessed wrong"? What is "airborne troops"? This is a general ("collective") concept! The concept of a formation that "includes" artillery units, armored units and infantry (airborne assault battalions), transferred with the help of aircraft! Remove the tanks, artillery ... what will remain? Infantry! Airborne assault battalions! Velites, hoplites, fusiliers, rangers, riflemen, motorized riflemen, Infantry!
  16. +7
    2 August 2025 10: 39
    The Airborne Forces currently perform the tasks of motorized infantry and special operations forces. But the tasks that are doctrinally prescribed for them as a branch of the military do not exist, or they are extremely risky.
    For the tasks of the motorized infantry, the Airborne Forces are not properly provided with heavy, large-caliber armored vehicles and rear services. For the tasks of the special operations forces, the Airborne Forces are excessive in quantity and require additional specialization in goals and tasks.
    According to the idea of development, this glorious branch of the military should split and become part of the specified troops, but this will not happen in the coming years, since the Airborne Forces have a strong lobby.
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 10: 43
      Tram param - 100% hit. VDV do what they should not do.
      I totally agree.
      They serve the infantry, make assault items, and so on.
      The jerks in the General Staff and their lesser jerk colleagues in the smaller headquarters do not understand that the Airborne Forces are not for this.
      And the ugly creatures from the local commentators don’t get the point at all.
    2. -2
      2 August 2025 16: 34
      "The Airborne Forces are currently performing the tasks of the motorized infantry..." Does this mean that the infantry cannot cope with its tasks if the Airborne Forces perform them?
      1. +6
        2 August 2025 19: 51
        Yes, it is true that motorized infantry is always in the backseat in a secondary role, but in war they are always required to do the most. And after the war, the first one is cut.
      2. +5
        3 August 2025 00: 08
        Or there are no tasks for the Airborne Forces that correspond to their concept of use, they won’t be cooling their heels in the rear, since they are not needed according to their profile
        1. -3
          3 August 2025 08: 08
          It turns out it's all so simple.
    3. AMG
      +1
      9 August 2025 14: 18
      Heavy, large-caliber armored vehicles... This is simply awesome! No need to continue.
  17. + 10
    2 August 2025 10: 54
    I will express a thought that is probably seditious for many:
    The Airborne Forces in their current form are an anachronism. The development of air defense missile systems (including MANPADS) has made airborne operations in the enemy's rear using parachute landing of personnel and equipment from military transport aircraft impossible.
    Even if we assume that a hypothetical landing party will land without air defense systems, heavy equipment, or electronic warfare, its life will be measured in days, if not hours; it will be destroyed by drones, as they say, one-sidedly.
    I will say more, the undoubtedly heroic Gostomel operation would have been impossible in 2025 - the landing force would have been destroyed by the same drones that did not exist in 2022.
    It seems that at present the Airborne Forces should be transformed into the Airborne Assault Forces, with heavy equipment, air defense, etc., and for airborne sabotage operations one brigade can be left, say the 45th.
    1. +1
      2 August 2025 19: 35
      March 27, 2003
      About one thousand American paratroopers have landed from the air in northern Iraq and occupied an airfield in Kurdish-controlled territory, Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Collins, a spokesman for the US Army's Southern European Task Force, told reporters in Rome.

      He said a Vicenza, Italy-based airborne unit had been deployed to Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. Collins declined to say exactly where the American troops had landed.
      Troops from the US 173rd Airborne Brigade landed to clear a bridgehead for the further deployment of anti-Iraq coalition forces to the area. This is the first landing of US forces in the region, CNN emphasizes.

      and didn't you try to suppress air defense and gain air superiority???
      1. +2
        3 August 2025 10: 47
        And what was the opposition to this landing?
        Did anyone attack the landing area? Maybe MANPADS were launched at the planes?
        There was nothing.
        So what is the point of this twenty-year-old story?
        There is already experience of the SVO, when the planned landing with parachutes (thank God!!!) was cancelled, and the heroic, without a doubt, landing in Gostomel did not fulfill the task of ensuring the landing of the military transport aviation at the airfield, and could not fulfill it.
        1. -1
          3 August 2025 12: 28
          This is a story from 45 years ago. Following the operation, the 103rd Guards Airborne Division was awarded the Order of Lenin.
        2. -1
          3 August 2025 15: 50
          this is how they drop troops in the rear with the expectation that no one will interfere with the landing
          this is an example of a real landing, there is no surprise effect and at the same time there are places in the enemy's rear where there is practically no one who could interfere and the air defense is suppressed according to all the rules
          they throw you out with a parachute if the helicopter can't reach it or if it's too far to fly
          Gastomel is too adventurous an operation, Kyiv is almost 3 million people, the capital, and therefore air defense and many military units around
          Kharkov would have been easier to take
    2. AMG
      +1
      11 August 2025 08: 49
      I advise you to study the section: "Equipment and weapons of the airborne troops of the USSR and Russia"
  18. -2
    2 August 2025 11: 26
    A parachute jump is a test of fearlessness, self-control. Combat training, for example, a forced march in the air defense in technical troops 6 km, infantry 10 km, airborne troops 25 km. Shooting during service Construction battalion 3 rounds in two years, infantry 250 rounds, in the security and defense of the Strategic Missile Forces over 5000 rounds, in the airborne forces, in the marines I do not remember but not less. Plus in the airborne forces and marines hand-to-hand combat skills. That is why we need airborne troops with the highest fighting spirit to fight superior enemy forces. Happy holiday sons, brothers, comrades in arms!
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 12: 43
      I would also add selection here, for example, my father was called up to the Airborne Forces in the first half of the 1980s, having a Candidate for Master of Sports in kettlebell lifting and many hikes and rafting trips behind him (and how could it be otherwise, he grew up in the Urals) and according to his stories, all his fellow soldiers were +/- similarly prepared. That is, their psychological and physical preparation was above average and they were ready to take on forced marches and hand-to-hand combat with flying colors.
      And when my friends and I were called up (second half of the 2000s), they took us into the Airborne Forces based on the principle of being taller and without obvious health problems. And I know a couple of more than random people who served there.
      And so that there were
      Airborne forces with the highest fighting spirit to fight against superior enemy forces.

      Something needs to be changed in the upbringing of the younger generation and done about demography.

      otherwise, the Airborne Forces (even in a transformed form) are needed, because this is, if you like, the brand of the Soviet/Russian Army!
      "They were not taught to retreat in battle..."

      Happy Holidays!
    2. +1
      2 August 2025 21: 09
      And what prevents the same standards (or at least approximate ones) of training and education from being carried out in infantry units? Before the SVO, some conscripts very often complained that they were given little for the whole year. They did physical exercises, which is not bad, and in theory they were told a couple of times about something else. But they marched and did guard duty often.
      This is WHAT prevents all those who have joined the army from conducting regular training in shooting, first aid, advanced physical training, basic sapper-engineering skills, training using heavy weapons, etc., etc.
      An acquaintance of mine, when he joined the army, spent the first six months just going to physical education and regular formations according to schedule. The first time they showed him a machine gun was at the beginning of the second half of his service. Then he fired off 3 test rounds and again didn't really use it. He was lucky that unscheduled exercises began a few months before the end of his service. That was the first time he went to a training ground and saw from the side (because his unit was given the task of "covering the rear") how different branches of the armed forces acted among themselves. The exercises were over - and again the unit was drilling. And then the question is, is it safe to send soldiers to exercises with such a low level of training.
      And here's the question - if our army really TRAINED soldiers, then maybe there would be less need for the Airborne Forces as a means of reinforcement?
      If the Airborne Forces are reformed into rapid reaction forces, when they can, upon order, move to any point in the world within an hour and carry out a task there - then this would be an excellent solution. But the idea of building them around parachute landing (precisely building - after all, the Airborne Forces' armored vehicles are still being created for this condition, due to which their armored vehicles do not provide them with the required level of protection and mobility on the ground).
      We will have our own airfields and aircraft, we will practice the ability to parachute by aircraft and helicopters during exercises, we will have separate parachute-sabotage forces that will be dropped into the rear by small sabotage and reconnaissance groups. Let all this happen. But within the framework of using a single range of equipment with infantry, with our own tank and artillery units, and without attempts to parachute anyone larger than a group of 20 people. Rapid reaction forces - yes
      Airborne forces with airborne equipment with weak armor and insufficient weapons in the enemy's rear - no
      1. -2
        2 August 2025 21: 41
        "What prevents us from conducting the same standards (or at least approximate ones) of training and education in infantry units?" This question should be asked to the general military commanders. As for the Airborne Forces, in Soviet times there was approximately such training. https://topwar.ru/261466-na-sluzhbu-v-vojska-djadi-vasi-gajzhjunajskaja-uchebka.html To serve in "Uncle Vasya's troops". Gaizhunai training school.
      2. 0
        3 August 2025 12: 38
        What prevents the same standards (or at least approximate ones) of preparation and training from being carried out in infantry units?

        Traditions, laziness of commanders, poor physical health of the recruits themselves, decrees, orders, instructions that are in effect in the troops
        This is WHAT prevents everyone who has joined the army from conducting regular shooting training

        Specialization. For example, I served in the Emergencies Ministry troops and we had more than modest shooting, by the way, the drill was also especially harassed, but there was a lot of physical training
        first aid

        there was a lot of that too)
        basic sapper-engineering skills

        And for this we had an engineering and sapper company, which lived its own life and its own charter, and it was very surprising to see in it... Buryats.

        I am not saying this now to tell you how it was with us or somewhere else, but as an example of how everyone is needed in their place and to perform their tasks.
        1. -2
          3 August 2025 13: 20
          "...as an example of how everyone is needed in their place and to perform their tasks." That's exactly what I'm saying. But the answer is: no, you're nobody, you have no name, we've always done all the work for you at all times. Frankly, in my opinion, such logic is a subject for study by psychologists and psychiatrists.
          1. -1
            3 August 2025 14: 25
            Vladimir_Kuznetsov, don't be upset, many people come here for this reason)
  19. +4
    2 August 2025 11: 54
    At one time, the Soviet leadership, represented by comrade Khrushchev, became fascinated with rocketry. And off it went... Work on new artillery systems was suspended in favor of rocket technologies. Aviation projects were closed under the influence of the emergence of new types of missile weapons. Experiments with missile tanks began in tank construction. Missiles began to be actively introduced into the navy: artillery guns on surface ships began to be replaced by missile systems, and submarines became more popular instead of battleships and aircraft carriers. In fairness, it must be said that the passion for missiles was a worldwide trend, and it was not only the Soviet leadership that suffered from it.

    We definitely need to bite Khrushchev. Be objective guys, if it weren't for Nikita Sergeyevich, there would be no Kinzhals, Iskanders or submarines. Our fighters would be sitting under a mountain with "new artillery systems" laughing
    Experiments in tank building led to Grads and Tornados, and finally a normal T-55 tank appeared, and as for battleships, that's where they belong.
    More than 1800 ships were BUILT under Khrushchev, don't forget that! MISSILE.

    P.S. Gagarin, IMHO, would not have existed either. Everything would have gone to war, as under Stalin. More precisely, he did exist, but after Sheppard. Yes
    1. -2
      2 August 2025 18: 25
      If it weren’t for Stalin, there would be no Gagarin, no rockets, no country in which we live.
      1. -4
        3 August 2025 09: 47
        If it weren’t for Stalin, there would be no Gagarin, no rockets, no country in which we live.

        They would have been much faster. Korolev launched his first rocket in 1936, and two years later his jaw was already being broken in solitary confinement. wink
        1. +1
          3 August 2025 10: 34
          Aren't you tired of talking about jaws? Korolev himself never spoke about it, and there is no such information in his file either. And he was in prison for embezzlement. "In 1936, he was developing a gunpowder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and guiding it to the target, could not be manufactured by the central laboratory of wire communications, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively developed the rocket part of this torpedo in 2 versions.
          As a result of this testing of four torpedoes built by Korolev, their complete unsuitability was shown, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more pressing topics." But why your anti-Sovietism in the comments to this article, are you going crazy with anger?
          1. 0
            3 August 2025 13: 31
            Aren't you tired of talking about jaws? Korolev himself never spoke about it, and there is no such information in his file either. And he was in prison for embezzlement. "In 1936, he was developing a gunpowder winged torpedo; knowing in advance that the main parts of this torpedo - devices with photocells - for controlling the torpedo and guiding it to the target, could not be manufactured by the central laboratory of wire communications, Korolev, in order to load the institute with unnecessary work, intensively developed the rocket part of this torpedo in 2 versions.
            As a result of this testing of four torpedoes built by Korolev, their complete unsuitability was shown, which caused damage to the state in the amount of 120 rubles and delayed the development of other, more pressing topics." But why your anti-Sovietism in the comments to this article, are you going crazy with anger?

            There is no anti-Sovietism. It's just that Stalin is not about socialism, but about neo-feudalism. Yes
            This is what Lenin warned about. hi
            But Khrushchev had already loosened the noose, and life became a little easier. laughing At the same time, he was able to look into the future, unlike the rush jobber Dzhugashvili, who was always hitting the tails.

            The best time, of course, was Brezhnev. Then the reformers' hands started itching again... fool
            1. 0
              3 August 2025 14: 12
              A Trotskyist, then? Since you are so enthusiastic about Khrushchev? I am a Bolshevik and a Stalinist, although I have never been and am not a member of any party. But this has nothing to do with the topic of the article.
              1. -1
                3 August 2025 16: 28
                A Trotskyist, then? Since you are so enthusiastic about Khrushchev? I am a Bolshevik and a Stalinist, although I have never been and am not a member of any party. But this has nothing to do with the topic of the article.

                Joseph purged all the Trotskyists. Khrushchev is not a Trotskyist, not an "internationalist" Leninist, and not a "Georgian defender of national minorities", but himself. He is for the Russian people, because he himself is from the people. Yes
  20. +4
    2 August 2025 11: 57
    It seems that they have also had their share of mistakes (3 extremely unsuccessful landings in WWII, before the war they successfully landed only on the Romanians who were rapidly leaving before the end of the Soviet ultimatum in 1940, once they managed to land 1 people to accept the Japanese capitulation, all the other landings in the Far East in 300 were the work of the infantry, then Hungary and Czechoslovakia, which is not even funny at all, well, and the Kabul landing, with no resistance from the enemy, who did not yet know that he was the enemy, also brilliantly saved the leader of Kazakhstan, it is not clear, though, why, the rest of the time from Khalkin Gol to Donbass the Airborne Forces fight mainly as infantry, Gostomel firstly helicopters, secondly - what is the result, is this what success looks like?) and world experience is also available for review (the Germans deftly land on gliders right on the heads of the Dutch, well, okay, we'll count; then they take Crete, having lost half of the paratroopers, decide to turn off the tap; the Americans look at this and think - eureka, this is how it should be, they organize a whole army of airborne troops and as a result, in Normandy, a whole general commands 1945 fighters, because the pilots did not quite manage to get into the landing zone, and the crowning glory of it all - the largest landing in the history of mankind, if I remember correctly, 11 thousand soldiers land technically behind enemy lines, in ... 30 meters from their trenches).

    I am not an expert, but isn't practice the criterion of truth? They successfully land where there is no resistance (the Americans in northern Iraq in 2003, there were no Iraqis there at all, the Kurds had already captured the nearest base and city, it seems that this was the last parachute landing; the French successfully mauled freedom fighters in Africa several more times), but if there is resistance, then even if they manage to pull it off, losses of a third or more are guaranteed. And if so, is it worth making a fuss? The Airborne Forces probably shouldn't have been allowed to eat the Airborne Forces, it would have been more useful if everything had been exactly the opposite. In my opinion, the need for the Airborne Forces, not only in the era of high technology, but also in the era of WWII, is not obvious at all.
    1. -4
      2 August 2025 14: 47
      What do you know about the Kabul operation and what does non-resistance by the enemy mean? DShV is also an interesting abbreviation: airborne assault troops? There have never been such troops. There were airborne assault brigades of district subordination. But aren't they paratroopers?
      1. +6
        2 August 2025 15: 45
        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
        But aren't they paratroopers?

        Formally, they were army units and were not part of the Airborne Forces.
        1. -3
          2 August 2025 15: 47
          Yes, I know what kind of subordination they had. That doesn't stop them from being paratroopers.
      2. +4
        2 August 2025 16: 50
        What do you know about the Kabul operation and what does non-resistance by the enemy mean?

        The absence of resistance means. Soviet paratroopers did not just fly in, but by agreement of the two sides. The Afghans begged Brezhnev for the introduction of troops for a long time and did not think of resisting, but the allies are flying.
        But aren't they paratroopers?

        Paratroopers, but the article is about the Airborne Forces. If this is a hint that you can have paratroopers without any separate dioceses, where they stew in their own juices, captivated by fantasies about actions behind enemy lines, then do I argue? It seems that everyone does this after WWII, although Margelov was not the only one, the paratrooper mafia ruled in many places. The Americans, like their Margelov, had to remove General Gavin from the army altogether and send him off as an ambassador somewhere (I think to France). Because this truly heroic guy simply undermined the combat capability of the US Armed Forces in general with his crazy ideas.

        In my opinion, life has already put everything in its place - against the Papuans it's fine, to quickly conduct a police operation - great, there is an enemy with air defense - that's it, we'll go our separate ways, we can forget about landings. The question arises, though, if landing a force against a strong enemy is not science fiction, and against a weak enemy in principle the Airborne Forces are not at all necessary for success, then why a) separateness b) in such quantities
        1. -4
          2 August 2025 17: 33
          "The absence of resistance means that the Soviet paratroopers did not just fly in, but by agreement between the two sides." Is that all that is known about those events from the Internet? And where did the killed and wounded soldiers and officers come from? Did they shoot each other out of carelessness? As for the Airborne Forces, I understand the position of the critics, there is no need to repeat myself.
    2. +1
      2 August 2025 19: 51
      our ground forces move by rail or by road, and we have various airborne divisions working with aircraft
      Have we now got high-speed trains capable of transporting units at least hundreds of kilometers in a couple of hours?
      or have some kind of high-speed tank tractors appeared, or just flatbed KamAZ trucks that can reach at least 200 km/h on the highway?

      here the Ukrainians in Kursk and in 23rd used mobile groups in the rear of the Russian army, and these were just infantry in pickups and MRAs
      why did this become a problem for the Russian army, just some people in the rear...
  21. +1
    2 August 2025 12: 53
    I am not an expert on the use of equipment, but in the comments below there is a lot of talk about the Airborne Forces and helicopters, about how they can be infantry, but the Airborne Forces are not their profile, but if I am not mistaken, the Airborne Forces units in Mogocha, Magdagachi and Ulan-Ude were initially focused on helicopter landing?
    1. 0
      2 August 2025 14: 53
      Absolutely right. It is unclear why helicopters are not part of the Airborne Forces profile?
  22. +7
    2 August 2025 13: 36
    The author is being downright disingenuous. The Soviet Airborne Forces were planned to be used by parachute landing of both personnel and equipment. And huge amounts of money were invested in this. Why would they have created the BMD1-4, BTRD and the like if there was no way to realize their capabilities? The Airborne Forces are investing huge amounts of money in capabilities that are absolutely not needed. That's the problem.
    1. 0
      2 August 2025 20: 02
      parachute landing if it is impossible to land the plane, or the airfield still needs to be captured so that the planes on the runway are not shot down

      Work on the creation of a third-generation airborne combat vehicle began in parallel with the development of the BMP-3 infantry combat vehicle. However, the results of the development showed that the mass of the BMP-3 with landing equipment would significantly exceed 20 tons, so the Il-76M aircraft would be able to lift only one combat vehicle on board.
      Thus, the Il-76M aircraft load consisted of either 2 BMDs weighing 18 tons, or 3 BMDs weighing 12,5 tons. Subsequent research work proved that with the second option, the BMD tasks are performed much more effectively.

      stuff the coolest armored vehicle weighing up to 40 tons or several BMDs into the plane
    2. -3
      2 August 2025 22: 13
      The Soviet Airborne Forces were planned to be used by means of parachute, landing and combined landing.
      1. 0
        3 August 2025 05: 10
        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
        The Soviet Airborne Forces were planned to be used by means of parachute, landing and combined landing.

        Well, yes. But which scheme requires the most expensive equipment?
        1. -2
          3 August 2025 08: 10
          A tank is an expensive pleasure, as is a ship and an airplane.
          1. +2
            3 August 2025 12: 49
            Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
            A tank is an expensive pleasure, as is a ship and an airplane.

            Undoubtedly. But it is justified because the use of the above is present. Now tell me how many BMDs were parachuted into the enemy's rear during their entire existence?
            1. -1
              3 August 2025 13: 16
              The division in full force in December 1979 from Belarus to Afghanistan. Counter question: present, what is that? The fleet is crushing the enemy, the aviation has suppressed the enemy's air defense, and tank units are delivering powerful blows?
              1. +1
                3 August 2025 16: 22
                Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                The division in full force in December 1979 from Belarus to Afghanistan.

                Were they dropped from the air by parachute?
                1. 0
                  3 August 2025 17: 17
                  The division was landed by air.
                  1. -3
                    4 August 2025 09: 22
                    Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                    The division was landed by air.

                    Vladimir Nikolaevich, the issue is that the state allocated huge funds for equipment whose performance characteristics corresponded to parachute landing, but it was never used for its intended purpose. The Airborne Forces could have easily used combined arms equipment that could have been transferred to the Military Transport Aviation.
                    1. -1
                      4 August 2025 09: 39
                      Everything was done correctly, the country was led by front-line soldiers, and they were well aware of the danger coming from the enemy. In the article, I talk about why this was done. "... the world was divided into two blocs - NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Airborne divisions were located along the perimeter of the Soviet Union: their main goal when declaring war was to destabilize the enemy's communications and logistics, which could have a significant impact on the course of military operations. These tasks were important and urgently needed in the conditions of confrontation between two world blocs.

                      In the center of Europe there was a huge group of Soviet troops - the GSVG with tank units and motorized rifle divisions. At the beginning of the war, this group was supposed to deal the enemy a powerful blow and, if necessary, reach the English Channel. But the troops cannot do this immediately: they need time to bring their units to combat readiness and move out to meet the enemy. Mobilization is underway in the country, and cadre regiments and divisions are being staffed. At this moment, airborne divisions are dropped into the enemy's rear with the task of cutting communications and disrupting the logistics of the enemy troops. The actions of the paratroopers are aimed at creating chaos and weakening the enemy's combat capability. Even if "Margelov's Falcons" managed to fulfill only half of what they were ordered to do, this would already be good. They bought time and made it possible to bring to combat readiness those units that were supposed to break through.

                      With the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, the need for such large-scale operations disappeared: today, the Airborne Forces face completely new challenges." The need for large-scale operations disappeared, but the danger remains.
                      1. 0
                        4 August 2025 12: 39
                        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
                        Today the Airborne Forces are facing completely new challenges

                        Today, it is unrealistic to land troops with equipment by parachute. The potential enemy is saturated with air defense systems, and anti-tank weapons have evolved in size and become miniature. Today, each fighter is equipped with anti-tank weapons of such power that they are comparable to the AT artillery of 1945. That is, if during WWII, having landed an armored vehicle like the BMD in the enemy's rear, the probability of encountering an AT gun was negligible and such a combat vehicle would have been the most powerful cover for the landing, against which the rear units would have had no chance, today it is only a burden requiring the diversion of already modest resources.
                      2. -1
                        4 August 2025 13: 38
                        Have you heard the saying: "There's a stake in the yard, a bast is hanging on the stake, start over"? It's the same here, in the comments: in a circle about the same thing endlessly.
  23. +4
    2 August 2025 14: 34
    Regarding Gostomel. The mass parachute landing on the head of the combat-ready Kyiv garrison could not have been anything other than a crime, already at the level of intent. As for the landing landing on Gostomel, any mentally healthy person could recall not only the possible use of Ukrainian artillery on the airfield, which is very dangerous for a landing Il-76 even with the most banal scattering of fragments on the runway. But also the length of the landing glide path of military transport aircraft, the altitude of the MANPADS and the fundamentally achievable dimensions of the defense area of 200 "Gostomel heroes".
    In connection with the actual impossibility of successful parachute landings against any worthy enemy, and their banal uselessness against slipper wearers, I would consider it necessary to reform them.
    The Airborne Forces with parachute landings are the legacy of illiterate personnel. The first cavalryman A.A. Grechko with his two classes of the church-parochial school led the USSR Armed Forces until 1976. V.F. Margelov, with a Soviet elementary school, commanded the Airborne Forces of the USSR until 1979. And Yazov, the last Minister of Defense of the USSR, managed to reach such heights with a collective farm seven-year school of the late 30s that was not much different in terms of knowledge from Margelov's elementary school.
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 15: 42
      Oh, how! Marshal Grechko, Army General Margelov and Marshal Yazov - illiterate personnel with an education in the form of a church parochial school, and at best with a seven-year collective farm school from the 30s? However...
    2. AMG
      0
      4 August 2025 13: 21
      And who told you that a landing was planned in Gostomel? It is 80 km from there to the border in a straight line, and 120 km by road. Your logic is weak. Have you read the General Staff documents? You are only good at spitting on the Soviet past. I will add - in impotent rage. Well, the Soviet military leaders did not have a philological education, like you (or maybe they do not). But they coped with their task perfectly. And they fought in the Patriotic War and then created such armed forces that ensured peaceful life for the whole country.
      1. -2
        4 August 2025 21: 08
        Quote from AMG
        And who told you that a landing operation was planned in Gostomel?

        This photo shows the preparation of 24 Il-20 aircraft for a parachute landing early in the morning of February 76.
        According to the plan, the captured airfield was supposed to immediately begin accepting Il-76 aircraft with troops and equipment, following the example of Operation Danube. However, instead of a quick capitulation of Ukrainian troops around the capital, the airfield came under constant artillery fire from the Ukrainian Armed Forces using 203-mm Pionovs, which disrupted these plans. The troops began to be unloaded at Belarusian airfields, after which the airborne columns were forced to catch up with the ground forces and also make their way to the landing near Kiev on their own, forming huge multi-kilometer traffic jams on the few roads in the swampy north of the Kyiv region.
        1. AMG
          0
          4 August 2025 21: 56
          Please explain where the photo was taken? Is this how the loading or unloading of troops looks like? And why do we need to catch up with the ground troops if they are already heading to Kyiv? I repeat that the distance to Gostomel is about 120 km.
        2. AMG
          0
          4 August 2025 22: 16
          And what do you think, did ground forces with heavy equipment finally approach the battlefield and when?
          1. +2
            7 August 2025 14: 19
            Read about the Gostomel landing. I'm tired of doing educational work.

            https://lostarmour.info/news/desant-gostomel-5942

            "The guys flew in helicopters (more than 200 Russian helicopters were involved in the operation) to capture the airfield. We advanced to reinforce them by land. The reinforcement group was supposed to arrive at the airfield on the evening of the 24th. But things didn't go according to plan. There was only one road to the airfield. A two-lane road. And a huge amount of military equipment had accumulated on it: KamAZ trucks, armored personnel carriers, Tiger armored vehicles... somewhere there were already knocked out Ukrainian tanks.
            Due to constant shelling from the Ukrainian army and traffic jams, it took us four days to get to ours. The guys were waiting for us. They flew there with small backpacks - with dry rations for a day, and a B/K (ammunition kit) of 600 rounds for each. Grenade launchers, grenades, and a bottle of water. They reported that they were constantly under fire. That an offensive had begun. They held the airfield. Although the forces were unequal - the enemy outnumbered them several times. From seven in the morning until midnight, everything was flying at the airfield from the enemy side - Grads, self-propelled guns, mortars were working. Our guys were already tired, but charged. They needed our support, but we could not help them in any way. And that was hard."
            1. AMG
              +1
              9 August 2025 15: 20
              With all due respect, you won't succeed with educational program. The real history that began on February 24, 2024 will not be written anytime soon. With figures and facts, day by day. Now we are simply using individual memories of participants,
              fragments of video, etc. Only now, 45 years later, information is beginning to arrive that the events in Kabul were not limited to the storming of Amin's palace, but there was also an assault on the General Staff of the Afghan Armed Forces, and other battles in the city itself. Now about Gostomel. The surprise of the landing was achieved. There is no mention of the battles on the border, in the area of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. A good two-lane road, what prevented them from establishing a road commandant service? I don't think it was that bad. Video from the first days shows the unhindered advance of a column of BTR-MD airborne assault vehicles along Bucha. One vehicle is abandoned, local residents look inside and are surprised by the un-removed machine gun, which means equipment has arrived. What did the troops defend themselves with until the end of March? The Ukrainian artillery did not appear immediately, and what did it fire at? The airfield buildings, the thin chain of paratroopers lying down, the runway? Were they afraid that planes would arrive? There was information that they were afraid of landing at the Vasilkov airfield. The Ukrainian Armed Forces did not assemble troops in hours and minutes. The 95th Air Assault Brigade came from Zhitomir, the 72nd Mechanized Brigade from Bila Tserkva. They blew up the bridge over the Irpen River, on the nearest road to Kyiv. Fighting in the direction of the city of Makarov, with the goal of cutting off the Zhitomir highway? In general, there is a lot unknown. Maybe there will be a brave man who will summarize all the materials and enlighten us all. And as for the dry rations, a veteran of the events in Czechoslovakia in 1968 recalls. When the task was already completed, the soldiers began to extract rations from the RD-54 and put in cartridges. The point is, with cartridges you can find provisions for yourself anywhere.
        3. AMG
          0
          5 August 2025 09: 45
          There is probably a good road from Kyiv to the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. And why would they make "Peonies" there if there are about 20 of them in Ukraine?
  24. +4
    2 August 2025 15: 05
    The author substitutes the concepts of parachute landing and airborne forces. The parachute landing of large numbers of troops has already been shown to be ineffective in the Great Patriotic War, and in the troops of all countries. Small groups, of course, were and are dropped in this way. The main landing at the present time is by landing. But all this is in tactical depth, since without support, paratroopers become voluntary encirclement with a well-known sad outcome.
    1. -2
      2 August 2025 16: 02
      It is completely unclear why critics of the Airborne Forces associate the landing with parachute landing.
      1. +2
        2 August 2025 16: 19
        It is completely unclear why critics of the Airborne Forces associate the landing with parachute landing.
        This very expensive type of military-applied sport is heavily promoted, for this reason alone. By the way, in advertising films like "In the Zone of Special Attention" they use techniques that will not work in a combat situation (a captured paratrooper will suddenly get a stomach ache and regular infantry will treat him sympathetically), etc. In a real situation he will get a butt on the head and will sit there smelling until the interrogation and during it.
        1. -2
          2 August 2025 16: 28
          An expensive sport, so what? Why do you associate airborne troops with parachute landings, if this is just one of the methods of delivering personnel? The critics are talking about this: no parachute jumps - this is not the Airborne Forces. What kind of idiotic logic is this? Why are you fixated on this parachute landing? And the example with the film is useless. Have you seen the Soviet film "Die Hard"? Was this ever the case at the front?
          1. +4
            2 August 2025 16: 32
            Have you seen the Soviet film "Die Hard"? Did things like this happen at the front?
            Of course I watched it. A comedy on a topic that shouldn't have been made. My father, a war veteran, was totally disgusted. And there was an even more vomit-inducing film, "Antosha Rybkin," made during WWII. It was total crap. And as for parachute landings, all the PR for the Airborne Forces for decades was centered around that, Margelov himself did his best. Here's the result.
            1. -2
              2 August 2025 16: 44
              Vasily Filippovich Margelov is a great guy! He did everything right: from the 60s and 70s, he was engaged in what is now called PR. Other military leaders did not reach this level, unfortunately, and as a result, we now see offended people from other branches of the military.
          2. +4
            2 August 2025 21: 13
            Why do you associate airborne troops with parachute landings?


            Because all the airborne forces’ weapons are designed for this very parachute landing.
            And without this parachute landing it basically loses its meaning.
            1. -3
              2 August 2025 21: 29
              Really? And the paratroopers don't know that there is only a parachute landing method? We managed to land the entire division in Kabul and Bagram in 1979. By the way, it happened in Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Hungary in 1956 as well.
              1. +4
                2 August 2025 23: 42
                We managed to parachute the entire division into Kabul and Bagram in 1979. By the way, this also happened in Czechoslovakia in 1968 and Hungary in 1956.


                For landing by the landing method, neither the BMD, nor any vehicles based on it, nor parachute systems for their landing, nor parachute training of personnel are needed.
                And then it turns out that any infantry can handle the task of landing on an airfield from an airplane.
                1. -2
                  3 August 2025 07: 56
                  Why doesn't this happen? I'm talking about any infantry.
                  1. +2
                    3 August 2025 14: 47
                    Why doesn't this happen? I'm talking about any infantry.


                    Our infantry training level is traditionally below the baseboard.
                    This is why all the holes are plugged, either by paratroopers or special forces.
                    The Americans have rapid response forces - these are brigades with strikers, which are ordinary motorized infantry.
                    1. -1
                      3 August 2025 14: 53
                      It's strange to hear this. For the second day I have been convinced that it is the infantry that carries out all the tasks, and the Airborne Forces are ballast. And suddenly the infantry is below the baseboard. Some kind of contradiction.
                2. AMG
                  0
                  4 August 2025 13: 00
                  Well said - any infantry can handle it. With what? Well, it will fly in, and then, at a walk-run? What to travel on, drag guns, anti-aircraft guns, boxes of ammunition? So you need to take with you APCs and at least trucks or capture buses and cars on the spot? Look at the documentary footage of the Soviet Airborne Forces in Czechoslovakia in 1968. ASU-57-85, and GAZ-66 covered with fighters. And then, from the early 70s, already BMD-1, BTRD, even with light armor, but already with 30 mm guns and ATGM. Where is better?
                3. AMG
                  +2
                  7 August 2025 17: 11
                  Any infantry can handle it... And what will it fly in with, sapper shovels and 3 magazines per soldier? And what will happen after that? A division flew into Afghanistan with all its BRDs, artillery, anti-tank weapons, etc. The same thing happened in Czechoslovakia in 1968. Documentary footage from the first days. Paratroopers ride on ASU-85 armor, and open ASU-57.
            2. 0
              3 August 2025 07: 47
              In fact, there were attempts to create, for example, heavy (“super-heavy”) helicopters and equipment (weapons) for them!
  25. +2
    2 August 2025 15: 26
    What other options are there? Seriously?
  26. +6
    2 August 2025 15: 39
    This is the case when the comments are more interesting to read than the article.
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 16: 01
      Just like a book with a gripping plot.
  27. +2
    2 August 2025 15: 43
    The airborne forces of the future are transport UAVs that produce various robots - airborne, ground-based, which are parachuted and travel along the ground, and which stand on the ground and explode at a given moment, etc. And all of this is controlled by AI.
    1. -1
      2 August 2025 16: 05
      It is quite possible that this is exactly how it will be in the future. But for now this is not the case, and the personnel have to carry out the assigned tasks.
  28. +4
    2 August 2025 16: 42
    Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
    Is it possible to use motorized rifle units instead of airborne units in a helicopter landing? Probably, it is possible. But why? Don't they have their own tasks?

    Having airborne forces to perform tasks available to motorized riflemen? Isn't that too expensive?
    1. -3
      2 August 2025 17: 44
      And we will assign the tasks of motorized rifle units to divers? It is possible to train them?
      1. +3
        2 August 2025 21: 51
        And should we entrust the tasks of motorized rifle units to divers?


        There are currently five divisions and two brigades of divers.
        1. -1
          2 August 2025 21: 53
          So, we'll have to add more railway troops?
          1. +3
            2 August 2025 23: 48
            Here we have combined infantry regiments from the Strategic Missile Forces sent to carry out tasks for motorized rifle troops. For the good life.
            1. -2
              3 August 2025 08: 06
              That is, the motorized riflemen are not coping with their tasks, and critics of the Airborne Forces are convinced that they will carry out the tasks of the airborne troops.
  29. 0
    2 August 2025 20: 11
    "Do we need airborne forces?"

    NO! The Airborne Forces are the same as infantry.
    There is a need for the Strategic Missile Forces, a submarine fleet, engineering, watercraft and artillery troops with mortars, cannons, self-propelled guns and, of course, infantry to wage non-nuclear wars.
    1. 0
      3 August 2025 00: 29
      Unmanned surface and underwater vehicles are a structural unit of the navy, and unmanned aerial vehicles should also become a structural unit of military aviation. Putin correctly said that unmanned aerial vehicles are also aviation, but unmanned.
  30. +4
    2 August 2025 20: 44
    The Airborne Forces as a separate branch of the armed forces were not needed from the very moment of their creation: mass parachute landings were ineffective even during the Great Patriotic War, and after the potential enemy acquired MANPADS, they were simply doomed at the landing stage. In all armed conflicts, paratroopers were landed in small groups from helicopters and without heavy weapons, and then mainly by landing, and in most cases they were used as elite infantry, but due to the lack of heavy weapons they had to be reinforced with tanks and artillery of the ground forces, which created problems with troop control. Even in the USSR they realized that this mess had to be stopped, and created airborne assault brigades and battalions in the ground forces that would solve these problems, being directly subordinate to armies and corps. The next logical step would have been to abandon the concept of large parachute landings and abolish the Airborne Forces as a separate branch of the armed forces, but they didn’t have time, and then Pasha Grachev came and took everything back...
    1. -3
      2 August 2025 22: 10
      Where did he get such knowledge about the plans and actions of Army General Pavel Sergeyevich Grachev? Did he really tell me about it himself over a glass of tea? He was a good commander, by the way – my first battalion commander.
      1. +2
        2 August 2025 22: 12
        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
        He was a good commander, by the way.

        Pasha Mercedes?
        1. -3
          2 August 2025 22: 19
          My commander was Hero of the Soviet Union Pavel Sergeyevich Grachev. True, in my time he was only a captain.
          1. +2
            2 August 2025 23: 36
            Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
            My commander was Hero of the Soviet Union Pavel Sergeevich Grachev.

            Well, they say that Vlasov was a Hero of the Soviet Union, but that doesn’t change his essence, which I can’t talk about without breaking the rules about swearing.
            1. 0
              3 August 2025 07: 55
              I am not in the business of throwing shit on the history of my country.
      2. 0
        3 August 2025 14: 18
        That Grozny that one airborne regiment was going to take? No, I wouldn't sit on the same hectare with him. Following the Afghan war, the Vitebsk 103rd division was transferred to the KGB. Everything was moving towards their abolition as a branch of the military and a revision of the concept of their use, but then the USSR collapsed, and everyone went back.
        1. 0
          3 August 2025 14: 49
          I have no doubt that they would not have sat down, since you would not have been allowed anywhere near that hectare. The transfer of the 103rd Airborne Division to the KGB PV USSR was not due to the abolition of the troops, but for a completely different reason. This is a different story and has nothing to do with the topic of the article.
      3. +1
        4 August 2025 23: 37
        Quote: Vladimir_Kuznetsov
        my first battalion commander

        and I have the same last name and the same patronymic. At one time, at the military registration and enlistment office, it had an invariable effect. Everyone immediately became so polite and asked about my family tree.
        1. -1
          5 August 2025 08: 51
          Probably they were more worried about their fate - what if something happens!
  31. +1
    2 August 2025 20: 48
    02.08.2025. Airborne Troops units are fighting the heaviest battles in the Sumy direction during a special military operation. This was stated by the Airborne Troops Commander, Colonel General Mikhail Teplinsky.
    "Two divisions, two brigades and a regiment that participated in the liberation of the Kursk region are today fighting the heaviest battles in the Sumy direction," the general said.
    According to Teplinsky, the Novorossiysk Airborne Division is also advancing in the Zaporizhzhya direction, and the Ivanovo Airborne Division has completed the liberation of Chasov Yar in the DPR.
    The Colonel General also added that the Airborne Forces are trying to keep up with the times, and sometimes even be ahead of them, in terms of using innovative solutions - be it deploying UAVs or equipping troops with new small arms.
    The commander noted that over the 3,5 years of the special military operation, paratroopers were awarded approximately 100 thousand state awards, and 99 airborne troops became Heroes of Russia.
  32. -1
    2 August 2025 22: 05
    VDV is a mobile infantry.
    And infantry will always be needed.
    Elite, mobile, well-armed, with tactics that meet modern warfare.
    Of course, there are questions about parachutes, as well as about parachute landing.
    There are no questions regarding preparation.
    All that remains is to equip them with weapons that the paratroopers themselves will order, and not those that generals with effective managers will push into service.
  33. -2
    2 August 2025 23: 29
    02.08.2025. Russian President Vladimir Putin congratulated the personnel and veterans of the Airborne Forces on Airborne Forces Day, which is celebrated today, August 2. The corresponding telegram is posted on the Kremlin website. The head of state noted the glorious military traditions that the current generation of military personnel continues to follow.
    "The current generation of soldiers and officers preserves and enhances glorious military traditions, sacredly honors the laws of strong airborne brotherhood, valiantly fights for truth and justice during a special military operation, and defends our national interests with honor," the head of state noted.
    According to Putin, the fighters of the legendary "winged infantry" have written many bright, unforgettable pages in the heroic chronicle of the fatherland. Their courage, fearlessness and strength of spirit, as the president noted, will always be an example of true patriotism, loyalty to the oath and military duty. These words reflect the powerful motto of the paratroopers - "Nobody but us," he said.
    The President particularly noted the exploits of Airborne Forces veterans, who had behind them daring and courageous combat operations during the Great Patriotic War.
    1. 0
      3 August 2025 08: 13
      My disrespected minus-voter, why didn’t you like the president’s assessment of the airborne troops?
  34. +2
    2 August 2025 23: 57
    with the established LBS "elite" fight as ordinary combined arms units. how rational this is, is objectively known only to the RF GSh. I can only suspect the reasons that caused this obscenity. if the border troops were dispersed by force, the airborne troops are simply worn out in positional battles (battles for "forester's huts" are not their level). the place of the airborne forces in a modern war should be determined by military theorists... if there are any in the RF Navy.
  35. -1
    3 August 2025 02: 30
    Instead of large-scale operations behind the front lines, airborne troops can be used for precision strikes, peacekeeping missions, or counterterrorism. Their mobility remains an important advantage, but their missions must be reconsidered to take into account new realities.


    What peacekeeping missions, what terrorism?!
    The Airborne Forces are taking Washington.

    In short, the author signed his own death warrant by saying that the Airborne Forces are not needed.
    What he is talking about is the task of the SSO. They are the elite. They are not divisions, but companies.
    What about the Airborne Forces?
    Of course, the question is ripe. It is absolutely impossible to lose such an effective branch of the military. Apparently, parachutes will have to be put aside for now, heavy equipment added, and THEM not touched or optimized under any circumstances.

    And there it will be seen.
    1. -2
      3 August 2025 08: 17
      "What peacekeeping missions, what terrorism?!" For example: in August 1992, a reconnaissance company of the 51st Guards Airborne Regiment landed on three Il-76 aircraft at the Kabul airport and ensured the evacuation of the Russian embassy from besieged Kabul.
      1. +1
        4 August 2025 00: 37
        May I quote myself from my previous post.
        - This is the task of the SSO. They are the elite. They are not divisions, but companies.

        Now you:
        In August 1992, intelligence company 51st Guards

        Divisions are not needed for such operations. This is the task of the special forces companies.

        Now if you could give an example of a successful landing of an airborne division...
        Then the questions would disappear by themselves.
        But I'm afraid there aren't that many transport workers in the whole of the Russian Federation.
        1. -1
          4 August 2025 08: 18
          It turns out that no one else except the Airborne Forces performs their tasks? The Airborne Forces act as both the infantry and the special forces, and performs all of these tasks perfectly.
      2. +2
        4 August 2025 00: 47
        In fact, the Airborne Forces are now light guard infantry.
        And really, the Guards, in the sense of the pipeline - they will easily pass through and hold the heights without any questions. Elite.
  36. -3
    3 August 2025 09: 43
    There is no faster way to transport troops than by air. But in order to transport troops by air, the enemy must:
    a) was too stupid not to think of attacking "friendly" airfields
    b) very kind and kind - would provide his own.
    The Airborne Forces were formed in their current form in the 60-80s of the last century, when scenarios of China attacking the Trans-Siberian Railway (that's why the BAM was built) and attempts to strike/capture Kamchatka were quite possible (the Americans didn't send aircraft carriers flying in vain). In addition, there were numerous proxy conflicts around the world during the Cold War. Therefore, the Airborne Forces were formed with reliance on parachute landings.
    Little has changed now, but if they had developed huge transport convertiplanes with the same lifting capacity as the IL-76, then there would be no need for specialized military equipment.
  37. 0
    3 August 2025 20: 38
    Are Airborne Forces needed in the era of high technology?

    In my opinion, Dear Sirs, this is a very stupid question. The Airborne Forces will not just be needed, but essential for at least another 100 years!
    1. -2
      3 August 2025 21: 35
      Specifically! For the second day now I have been assured that the Airborne Forces are not only not needed, but are also a burden for the entire army.
  38. -2
    3 August 2025 20: 58
    They are needed, but a very powerful and high-quality support base needs to be formed for them, and the methods of action need to be radically re-equipped and modernized. This would require significant and radical restructuring, during which it would be difficult to say whether something old would be modernized very deeply or something fundamentally new would be built.
    One thing is clear: without these restructurings, the potential of the Airborne Forces will not be realized in modern wars.
  39. 0
    3 August 2025 21: 47
    A controversial issue, of course. They are needed, but not like they are now. As a rapid reaction force, yes, as infantry that jumps from planes - no.
  40. 0
    4 August 2025 13: 02
    Each paratrooper should be suspended under a drone, that would work great
  41. +1
    4 August 2025 23: 36
    I see the role of the Airborne Forces now more as a mobile reserve for defense, rather than an attacking force.
    In addition, the Airborne Forces have a good tradition of training autonomous units, which is useful in the mountains and wastelands.
  42. +1
    5 August 2025 08: 02
    We need everything: airborne forces, tanks, guns, aircraft carriers, etc., even electric scooters, the only question is the ability to use them and to organize flawless interaction.
  43. +1
    7 August 2025 06: 51
    On December 21, 2022, at the Defense Ministry Board, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that two additional airborne assault divisions would be formed.
    On August 2, 2023, Airborne Forces Commander Colonel General Teplinsky announced the planned reconstitution of the 104th Guards Airborne Assault Division. The reconstitution is scheduled for December 1, 2023.

    On December 21, 2022, at the Defense Ministry Board, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced that the existing Marine Corps brigades (810th Guards Separate Marine Brigade, 336th Guards Separate Marine Brigade, 61st Separate Marine Brigade, 40th Separate Marine Brigade, 155th Guards Separate Marine Brigade) would be deployed into divisions.

    The Airborne Forces and Marines are needed. Some divisions are being recreated. In this regard, the question of deep and sabotage reconnaissance - will the special forces brigades be recreated: the 67th separate Special Forces Brigade and the 12th separate Special Forces Brigade? The history of these brigades shows that they deserve it.
  44. +1
    7 August 2025 15: 13
    Any discussion about the uselessness of the Airborne Forces is a hostile squabble. The question is not posed that way, not at all. Another matter is the number, armament, tactics of use. Here the discussion is inevitable. How to use, under what conditions, in what volumes. The Airborne Forces have a special feature - to quickly and effectively go where no one else can. Now the issue of an aircraft to replace the destroyed Il-112 is acute. There is the Mi-8, it is 20 people, there is the Il-76, it is 150. In between - nothing.
  45. 0
    8 August 2025 16: 59
    The Airborne Forces are undoubtedly needed, but in a modified form:

    1. Two parachute divisions (4 PDP or 12 parachute battalions)
    These divisions should be given all available (remaining) battalion sets of BMD-4 + Rakushka BTR.
    Before the SVO, 13 or 14 sets were produced.
    The main task is to quickly strengthen the troop grouping in the North (Arctic) and the Far Eastern region.
    2. Form 5-6 light helicopter-landing brigades.
    The main tasks are reconnaissance and sabotage behind enemy lines, as well as
    counter-sabotage operations against enemy sabotage and reconnaissance groups.
    Transport: ATVs, motorbikes.....
  46. -3
    9 August 2025 11: 14
    The dispute about the necessity or uselessness of the Airborne Forces has long been resolved by the General Staff of the RF Ministry of Defense.
    The airborne units are used in the current conflict as regular infantry. That is why the landing force received howitzers, multiple rocket launchers, and many other things that the landing force does not need.
    And the capture of the airfield can be carried out by both the GRU General Staff special forces and the FSVNG special forces.
    1. AMG
      +2
      11 August 2025 09: 04
      I would like to inform you that since Soviet times the Airborne Forces have been armed with BMDs, BTR-Ds, D-30 howitzers, 120mm self-propelled howitzers "NONA", Grad-V MLRS, various ATGMs, mortars and much more. And the task of the GRU special forces is deep reconnaissance, for which they intensively study foreign languages. And the FSVNG is generally a division of the Russian Guard, an executive authority, roughly speaking, the fight against crime.
  47. NSV
    0
    10 August 2025 16: 23
    Troops are needed, that's a fact, but a clear concept of their use is also necessary, and not today's plugging of holes...
    1. AMG
      +1
      11 August 2025 09: 07
      The concept is there, it is quite clear, but reality makes its own adjustments. It remains to wait...
  48. +1
    12 August 2025 00: 15
    Pure into space ...
    Some of the local authors have already ruled out the prospect of developing tank forces, aircraft carriers, large surface vessels, attack aircraft... and now they have even reached the landing force.
    And who and what will we fight with when conflicts are smoldering not only “overseas”, but also along our enormous borders???
    1. 0
      12 August 2025 08: 49
      The answer of most "experts" who are opponents of the Airborne Forces is this: too much money is spent on the troops. That is, the "experts" are concerned about the country, they can't sleep if the money from the budget is not going where they think it should go. And the second version of "experts" is those who are convinced that the Airborne Forces have never been used anywhere in the 95 years of their existence, have not completed a single task, and they believe that the Airborne Forces are an absolutely useless branch of the military and that mother infantry needs to be trained better, and the Airborne Forces should be abolished.
      1. -1
        12 August 2025 23: 23
        Such "experts" simply do not understand that to bring mother infantry to at least an approximate level of training of airborne troops will require significantly more money than for the airborne troops and infantry separately... because their tasks "for the war" are defined differently, and therefore the preparation for combat operations is absolutely specific. "We've been there before - we know."
  49. 0
    25 August 2025 17: 23
    Yes, we don’t need anything anymore, FSE tanks, planes, ships... We only need chips and a sofa.
  50. -2
    22 September 2025 11: 05
    They were relevant in WWII, and they're still relevant today. But their applications are different, and military science is constantly evolving. In wars with technologically advanced adversaries, helicopters will likely play a special role. They fly low, land quickly, and fly away.
  51. 0
    22 September 2025 11: 27
    Before the SVO, large-scale exercises with the participation of the Airborne Forces were held in Crimea.
    The entire Russian military transport aviation managed to transfer to Crimea a single airborne regiment with standard armored vehicles and artillery.

    Since then, our military transport aviation has not become more powerful, and given the rate of production of new Il-76-90s, as well as the rate of decommissioning of old Il-76s, one airborne regiment will remain the maximum combat unit for the military transport aviation.
    Therefore, there is no point in having more than 4-6 parachute regiments (two divisions).
  52. -2
    11 November 2025 07: 25
    We need all the airborne forces, tanks, planes, ships, UAVs, etc., but most importantly we need brains to use it effectively.