Forum "ARMY" - farewell or see you later?

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Forum "ARMY" - farewell or see you later?

So, the king seems to be dead. For the first time since 2015, when the first Army-2015 forum took place, there will be no Army-2025 forum. Not in a truncated form. Not in any other format. That's it. Resignation. Or a systemic purge, whichever is more convenient and understandable.

I was surprised how everything was done: just rumors started to spread - and the site is practically dead, formally there is still a picture on the main page, but then - that's it, emptiness. "Army Games" were finished off even earlier.




Having participated in the first four forums, I have formed my own opinion and will now try to convey it. Today, many people have rushed to dance on the bones, as is customary in our country historically.

“The public crucifixion of an entire era named after Shoigu,” “the cult of window dressing militarism,” “the dressing up of the army in a PR format” — this is what our Internet has blossomed with.

Our local fans of digging into the past can find more than one article in which I spoke very harshly about the "Army", but: my colleague Krivov and I figured out back in 2015 that the smartest thing to show was not the "Armata" and "Terminator", but real innovations. And over four forums, we managed to give more than two hundred materials about real and necessary things that were shoved into the farthest corners of the sites. An inflatable sterile operating room, a water purification plant, radiochemical laboratories, communication systems, ship equipment, self-laid roads, trucks on rails - we really gave a lot of interesting materials in addition to weapons.


The first forum was a complete mess, according to my impressions. Crowds of spectators, completely mad organizers, inconsistencies - in general, we left with the full impression that yes, it is our native army. But there was something to see, there really was.


In 2016, there was a shock. It’s hard to say what they were doing inside, but a year later it was already a Forum. A well-oiled machine that was spinning up at the moment and trying to show everything. The work of the press services and the press center was ideal and the best in all four of our forums. They really tore us apart: let’s send one there, and we’ll take the other one to the training ground, there’s a bus over there, and in two hours we’ll meet at the bombing range, and so on. We developed persistent schizophrenia, but returned satisfied. It was very meaningful.

The year 2017 was the same in quality, but with some strange subtext from the very beginning. A bunch of stupid girls appeared, frankly pretty, in very beautiful suits, with expensive manicures. And absolutely useless, although trying with all their might to show their importance. There were pauses in work, when "it's none of your business", polygons were closed for special screenings outside the schedule for potential buyers. And, it was noticeable, there were fewer new products.


In 2018, we left after the first day. There was really nothing to catch. The pavilions in the buildings were empty, our favorite far platform near Kalashnikov was also practically empty, the shows were no different from the previous year.

The "Army" has really started to stall.

In a private conversation with representatives of the Zhukovsky and Gagarin Academy, which is now languishing in Voronezh, I heard about the orders that were handed down from Moscow. There is a scientific company (and there was one, yes) - do whatever you want, but there must be a stand at the "Army" and developments. And the arguments that developments take time, you know what they came up with.

The murder of the best crew of the Ilyushin Design Bureau became epic. Hero of Russia Nikolai Kuimov, Dmitry Komarov and Nikolai Khludeev died precisely because by 2021 there was nothing to show at the "Army". And they were ordered to drag the winged coffin of the Il-112V to Kubinka and demonstrate the successes of our aviation industry to the guests there.

The main miscalculation of Shoigu's department was that, understanding the principle that "the show must go on", they still did not understand that the show should be interesting. Yes, for the average person who paid good money for their children to see what the strengths of the Russian army are, in principle, it does not matter what they roll out on the central stage.

But for those who come to spend money...

These gentlemen needed a completely different reality. And at the level of 2018, the "Army" began to slide into the same show that the "Army Games" had turned into at that time. There, at the "Games", insanity was already in full bloom, some kind of hysteria was already visible. Totally crazy competitions were invented, which only raised doubts about the normality of the psyche of those who invented them.

But more was needed. More of everything: participating countries, host countries, competitions, and most importantly, victories for the Russian team. Therefore, competitions for military dog handlers, police officers, traffic police officers, quartermasters, and divers — they were there, but often the number of participants did not exceed 2.


In general, the budgets were spent, it is difficult to say what figure all these show-offs and games cost, especially how much tanks was ruined in the "Tank Biathlon" by visiting participants from such advanced armies as Angola, Zimbabwe, Myanmar and the like, which are still armed with such modern vehicles as the "Type 59" (Zimbabwe), T-54 (Angola), "Type 69" (Myanmar), and whose representatives simply came for free to see themselves in the relatively modern T-72.

I only know that every year, following the results of the "ABT Masters" competition in Ostrogozhsk, 15-20 vehicles were written off due to being completely worn out. There was only one order - victory at any cost, so the equipment was not spared.

And then we wondered why in our army, wherever you spit, there’s nothing. Drones, sights, first aid kits... So they are all there... They remained on the forums' margins.

Yes, I will never forget this: "Twelve agreements were signed on the sidelines of the forum." What, would it be cheaper to just sign them in the house on the embankment? Yes, they will.

However, despite all the show and trillions of rubles spent, which heartily pleased the souls of Shoigu’s team managers, there was real benefit.

1. The qualifying stages began all over the country. Tankers began to drive and shoot, pilots - to fly and drop bombs. Yes, the conditions of the competitions were very different from the personnel training program for the worse (according to the participants, they were completely useless), but the movements began.

2. The average person (the people, the electorate), looking at all this, began to understand that we do have an army. And they are doing such a useful thing there (sarcasm, but...), the number of draft dodgers has sharply decreased, and the number of people signing up for a contract has gone up. And this is a real fact, we watched it practically live. We personally saw how many people came in just to inquire about the conditions at the same "Aviadarts". And how "Channel One" broadcast "Tank Biathlon" live, what equipment was used, what team worked...

3. Patriotic component. Yes, it was there. Slanted, crooked, but it was there. After all, rumors were leaking out at the same time that there, near Ilovaisk... Donetsk... Debaltsevo... In short, if our eagles are sweeping everyone away at competitions, then they are also great in battle!

In general, in addition to everything that Shoigu's team wanted to implement, they succeeded in creating a positive image of the army. And you can't argue with that: new uniforms, new content, constant reports from the department that equipment is being replaced with new ones...

Plus, indeed, all of us, journalists working on "Armies", for the most part wanted to show exactly that we were developing progressively. And, it must be said, in the period 2012-2015 it was very difficult to do this. Then "Military Review" was called "urakals", but few people understand what it cost to "urakal" then, because they didn't really have it. But there was a desire.


So, strange as it may seem, Shoigu and company managed to achieve almost everything they had planned. If you dig into the materials of 2015-16, then the following was stated as the goals and objectives of the forums:

- showing the achievements of the Russian defense industry and armed forces to both domestic and international audiences. Did it work? It did.

- to create a platform for concluding contracts between the Ministry of Defense and defense enterprises. Did it work? Yes, the so-called "Days of State Defense Order" are ugly, pompous and stupid, but it worked.

- to attract the attention of the population, especially young people, to military service and technology. It worked again! Young people joined the army and the scientific companies, and the scientific companies turned out to be quite a profitable business in the sense that if you give young "geniuses" the opportunity to create something, they will create it.

In general, the program was completed. But then things got going: gigantomania took over, and at some point, “effective managers” removed the military from management, and the show-off began. Thousands of units of equipment, hundreds of thousands of visitors, grandiose static displays and dynamic shows, contracts concluded “on the sidelines”…

But all this hype did its job: the forum became a PR tool for the Russian Defense Ministry in general and Minister Shoigu in particular. And thus, if not a shield for Russia in the form of the army and fleet, then the image of this shield is formed in the minds of citizens.

Plus all these "Burevestniks", "Poseidons" and other "unparalleled in the world" inventions, thanks to which Russia will be able to reduce any enemy to dust. We believed that a thousand "Armatas" would roll over Europe like a steamroller, if necessary, and hundreds of Su-57s would sweep all these "penguins" out of the sky.

However, this is national. At the genotype level. People's Commissars Tukhachevsky (especially) and Voroshilov were also doing roughly the same thing in the 30s. But in 1941, a hangover set in. It also set in for us in 2022, when it suddenly turned out that all these "unique" and "unparalleled" models still exist in single copies, and the same T-72, D-30, BMP-2, and so on will fight. And the army has no means of communication or first aid kits.

The SVO revealed the technological lag of the Russian army, and in areas that are considered a priority today: the forum practically did not focus on the importance of unmanned aviation (there was a playground, but it was in the backyard and without any chic), systems EW new generation, including small-sized, high-precision weapons ground and air based. It turned out that in these areas there is a significant lag behind the needs of a modern conflict, but these areas were not taken into account. The emphasis was on what could be presented beautifully and effectively.


Well, now one after another, criminal cases are being added about the misappropriation of funds...

In general, it is worth admitting that the annual forums, which cost the country billions, demonstrated a completely different army than the one that is currently operating at the front. Alas, these are two different armies. If Shoigu had called the forum "Army of the Future," it would not have been so offensive to understand that we have two different armies - one that is fighting and one that existed in the beautiful reports of outrageously effective managers.

Today the tasks are different. And the demonstration of "achievements" in itself in such a development of events is more than strange, therefore there are no questions about the fact that the new Minister of Defense has stopped the disgrace of wasting money on show. Parades and shows are, of course, good, but today the urgent needs of the army are more important.

Sergei Shoigu's "Army of the Future" has not been tested by a real conflict; on the contrary, there is a huge gap between the created image of the Russian army (which was greatly facilitated by the events in Syria) and its real combat readiness. As a result, both the "Army Games" and "Army" are going into history.

Question: forever?

What we have in liabilities, those who decide to trample Shoigu to the ground will now talk about for a very long time. What we have in assets - I have already listed almost everything, but there is one more thing that does not give rest: Shoigu's main brainchild, "Patriot" - what with it? Not a very nice wake-up call in terms of the UAV forum will be in "Skolkovo". Forget about the billions driven into it? Forget about the tank museum in Kubinka, destroyed for the sake of the "Patriot" exposition?

And there is also a small church there... No parishioners, true, but it is there. And it probably doesn't ask for it...


"Digesting" and mastering Shoigu's legacy is not an easy task. A mountain of stupidity was done there, because profit took its toll, but something needs to be done with the park. It is clear that there will be a new director to replace the one who was imprisoned, there will be new deputies who will not want to adopt the sad experience of their predecessors... And the SVO will end someday, and perhaps it will be possible to organize international forums again. And someone will come to them...

Showing your achievements to the world is normal. It's beautiful. And military equipment, yes, should be shown in all its glory, with a column of smoke, a roar, and the debris of destroyed targets. Many countries do this, and we need to do this. Just not every year.

IDEX in Abu Dhabi, DSEI in London, Seoul ADEX in Seoul – they are all held once every two years. And both sellers and buyers come to them. But these are international exhibitions, where manufacturers from all over the world come. Our military "VDNKh" can be held even less often. Let's say, once every four years, depending on what can be shown. Calmly and without storming.

So, it is possible that the Patriot died along with the Army, but on the other hand, there may be options. Time will tell.
55 comments
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  1. + 17
    23 July 2025 04: 20
    Forum "ARMY" - farewell or see you later?

    It would be better to say "farewell". It is ridiculous to shake concepts and models in public. The army is not armed with "unparalleled weapons in the world" for that. Victory is achieved not at parades, but on the battlefield.
    The Russian military-industrial complex has increasingly begun to resemble a guild of traders... Only the lives of our soldiers are put on the counter...
    1. + 17
      23 July 2025 08: 40
      Quote: ROSS 42
      The Russian military-industrial complex has increasingly begun to resemble a guild of traders

      Privatized enterprises, managed by efficient managers and most of which subsequently went bankrupt with the sale of assets, workshops and premises. Those who stayed afloat, survived thanks to the most powerful lobby in the Ministry of Defense and state financing, and blocked the entry of everyone else to the arms market. The Central Bank's games with rates as a tool for bankruptcy and privatization. And the State is behind all this. This is what it is like, the Russia of today.
      1. AAK
        +2
        28 July 2025 10: 06
        And to criticize RUSSIA not only of the present, but even of the very recent past - is vo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!!! The moderator is close... well, I suppose that now, since 2022, we already have a "permanent family representative office" at IDEX in Abu Dhabi... just left the penthouse and now it's IDEX...
        1. +1
          28 July 2025 10: 38
          The daughter of an immortal former minister?) Anything is possible...
      2. 0
        28 September 2025 06: 07
        And behind all this stands the State headed by President Putin.
    2. +4
      23 July 2025 09: 50
      my colleague Krivov and I figured out back in 2015 that the smartest thing to do would be to show not the “Armata” and “Terminator,” but real new products,
      adopted into service!
    3. + 26
      23 July 2025 10: 11
      As a military engineer, I will tell you about all this showiness - in all this time I have not met a SINGLE new machine, my peers UR-77, IMR-2, MDK and so on, we fight on the so-called "Soviet galoshes". I saw this mine-clearing robot twice on TV - in Syria in 2019 and recently on TV in Kursk region. Here we mine and clear mines manually. The mines are still terribly effective, but "old galoshes", though rusty. Of the new products, I held and shot from AK-12, personally I was not delighted, I exchanged it for an old Soviet one. Maybe I am so unlucky and this is only in my direction, in other areas the guys may have seen all this latest Shoigu stuff... hi
    4. +3
      23 July 2025 13: 34
      Quote: ROSS 42
      Forum "ARMY" - farewell or see you later?

      It would be better to say "farewell". It is ridiculous to shake concepts and models in public. The army is not armed with "unparalleled weapons in the world" for that. Victory is achieved not at parades, but on the battlefield.
      The Russian military-industrial complex has increasingly begun to resemble a guild of traders... Only the lives of our soldiers are put on the counter...

      The Army Games should be held in Ukraine. There are many training grounds and targets there.
      1. AAK
        +2
        28 July 2025 10: 07
        Yeah...and immediately sign contracts there...
  2. + 18
    23 July 2025 04: 29
    I won't discuss the article, I'll say that the author correctly noted that where ladies with meter-long manicures appear, don't expect anything good, unless of course it's a beauty salon or a women's forum. I remember well that at my first job I had a boss, a good man, a veteran of the Chechen war, and then he worked in the police, and somehow we got to talking about police reform, and he said to me: What reform? I go into my old department, before we had an operational group (or rapid response, I don't remember exactly what he said), there were men ready to immediately respond to a call, and now I go in there are three ladies sitting there filing their nails, an operational group..... We have a very big problem, no, not in the ladies, they have nothing to do with it at all, but in the fact that over time our good ideas turn into something obscene, and do not fulfill their original functions.....
    1. BAI
      +2
      23 July 2025 12: 55
      So what? I have a friend - a senior investigator, a major. Very pretty and smart. Like everyone else, she works 16 hours a day, that's why she's planning to quit. And she works no worse than anyone else.
      1. 0
        27 August 2025 13: 47
        Unless in the administration of a large city or higher, or that now it is rare to have a daughter/mistress. I worked at the RO/UVD on the ground. On the ground, whoever works hard has never met a pretty one, even after the captain, either they are on maternity leave or they quit.
    2. +1
      23 July 2025 16: 10
      The problem with the military in Rus' today is that power there has been seized by Accountants-Lawyers-HR people.

      Accordingly, the service is distorted to the point of convenience. "leaders of official opinion", so to speak. Warrior or Operative have 5-10th priority...
      1. +3
        23 July 2025 21: 04
        Quote: Bayun
        The trouble with servicemen in Rus' today is that

        This is not only a problem for the servicemen, but for the entire Russian economy. And they are also in charge of politics, which is also far from cool.
      2. 0
        28 August 2025 13: 17
        ...this is a real problem today!!!...not only for servicemen
  3. + 13
    23 July 2025 04: 45
    So, oddly enough, Shoigu and company managed to achieve almost everything they had planned.

    This is what investigators are looking into...
    1. + 17
      23 July 2025 05: 15
      Quote: Konnick
      This is what investigators are looking into...
      He laughed heartily! wink
    2. +3
      23 July 2025 19: 19
      Investigators study only what they are allowed to. And whether to proceed or not does not depend on investigators in our reality, and is completely unrelated to what they dig up there.
    3. Qas
      +1
      16 August 2025 11: 28
      Based on what?
      And what was the basis for initiating a criminal case if, as you write, "investigators" appeared? And who would allow them?
      Shoigu, as we all know, is a friend of you-know-who. And he doesn't abandon his own.
  4. + 15
    23 July 2025 06: 45
    "Digesting" and mastering Shoigu's legacy is not an easy task. A mountain of stupidity was done there, because profit took its toll, but something needs to be done with the park. It is clear that there will be a new director to replace the one who was imprisoned, there will be new deputies who will not want to adopt the sad experience of their predecessors... And the SVO will end someday, and perhaps it will be possible to organize international forums again. And someone will come to them...

    That's all true. Only this is not Shoigu's legacy,
    and Shoigu + Putin.
    Or to be more precise, Putin + Shoigu.
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 13: 54
      Absolutely right 😡 One at the helm, plus the rest of the unnamed effective managers🤬 And we are still reaping this effective management, and it is not yet known how much we will reap🤬
  5. +4
    23 July 2025 07: 10
    “The public crucifixion of an entire era named after Shoigu,” “the cult of window dressing militarism,” “the dressing up of the army in a PR format” — this is what our Internet has blossomed with.

    Well, it wasn’t like everything blossomed out of nowhere.

    Our local fans of digging into the past can find more than one article in which I spoke very harshly about the “Army”, but: my colleague Krivov and I figured out back in 2015 that the smartest thing would be to show not the “Armata” and “Terminator”, but real new products.

    And how do the other real new products differ from "Armata" and "Terminators", the same alpha-beta fakes in several copies, but for the sake of fairness "Terminator" participated in a real battle and there were losses of this equipment, but "Armata". What the army fights in reality was shown by SVO. Write an article about what kind of communications the troops used/use in the first years of the special operation and to this day.
  6. + 15
    23 July 2025 07: 23
    The park is arranged terribly! Without a car, you will walk to the other end for half a day, all entrances are paid, there are many exhibits, but to see everything you will have to pay a couple of tens of thousands! In the end, my child and I looked through the fences for most of it. The prices for everything else, water, ice cream and toilets are also the same there. In short, the park will die and no one will cry. And no one doubted that all this was a big money-laundering of the flows. It's good that they started a war, at least it exposed this whole circus of mummers.
    1. 0
      9 September 2025 14: 17
      Well, about a couple of tens of thousands, you're exaggerating. I don't think it's a maximum of 5, and that's a stretch. I was there recently, and the ticket prices are pretty reasonable. For trophy equipment, 350 rubles. A comprehensive ticket to the first site and another one or two exhibitions is about a thousand. It turns out that volunteers who restore aircraft moved there and were allowed to work, unlike the museum in Monino, from where they were simply kicked out 😒 It’s just that the park needs to be headed by a person who cares about its fate and keeps the organization of everything at a high level, at least for ordinary tourists. What really angered me was the organization of transport delivery 😡 Buses on route 75 Kubinka-Galitsino are written that they should run every 40 minutes, but in fact they run as they please 😡 And people have to wait for them for an hour and a half, and then they can’t even get on, because it’s packed like sardines in a barrel 😡 And if they ran at least every 15 minutes, then moving around the park would not be a problem. But this route has been occupied by taxi drivers from neighboring republics and for 1000 rubles per car, both from Kubinka and from Galitsino, they scamper on the route 🤬
  7. BAI
    -3
    23 July 2025 07: 29
    The smartest thing would be to show not the "Armata" and "Terminator", but real new products

    What's wrong with the Terminator?
    1. +9
      23 July 2025 07: 56
      What's wrong with the Terminator?

      The fact that an assault vehicle with bulletproof armor on the turret looks very strange
      1. BAI
        -1
        23 July 2025 12: 58
        Now it's clear why it didn't work. The Terminator is not an assault vehicle. It should follow the tanks (which are the ones doing the assault) and support them with fire.
        Throwing Terminators into the front lines of an assault is stupidity bordering on crime.
        By the way, they didn't do that at SVO and lost only 2 Terminators. And the reviews, as far as I know, were good.
        But there is a downside, a primary one from the very beginning - all the beauty on top of the hull will be blown away by the first 152 mm high-explosive fragmentation shell.
        1. +3
          23 July 2025 18: 48
          Quote: BAI
          There is a minus, a primordial one from the very beginning - all the beauty on top of the hull will be blown away by the first 152 mm high-explosive fragmentation shell

          The Terminator's turret is bulletproof! In other words, cardboard. What's the point of tank armor on the hull, when even when fired at by the same 2A42, the shells hit from above due to ballistics and will leave nothing of the Terminator's turret? I won't even mention the Bradley APFSDS. Then why does the Terminator need TWO guns?? I never understood this, since at long distances when two guns are in operation, it is impossible to talk about any accuracy, besides, one 2A42 or 2A72 gun is not particularly accurate, unless in a corset, at least in comparison with the Bushmaster, MK30, Bofors, because those either have a thicker barrel at the base, like the Bushmaster, or a corset in others. Then, the 2A42/2A72 already has a high rate of fire for such a caliber, so why are there two of them? So what's the point of this Terminator if its drone protection is no better than that of the BMP-2, and the cost is like several BMP-2s, which together not only have significantly higher firepower, but can also land a bunch of troops and take away the wounded, which the Terminator cannot. Well, if they decided to make a BMPT, then why didn't they make a seriously protected turret? With one stabilized 30mm gun in the corset? And seriously, as the SVO showed, heavy IFVs based on tanks are needed, with a rear ramp, an engine in the front, and why UVZ didn't consider it necessary to create a big question mark over this. And for me, it's because UVZ, compared to other design bureaus, was not particularly creative, unlike the Chelyabinsk design bureau, the Leningrad design bureau, and the Kharkov design bureau.
  8. +2
    23 July 2025 07: 47
    An army "forum" is a useful and necessary thing. But during war - inappropriate. The same with parades. If the parade does not go to the front in full, it is not needed.
    1. -4
      23 July 2025 11: 50
      Quote: Bayun
      If the parade does not go to the front entirely, it is not needed.

      The parade is:
      A military ritual consisting of a ceremonial review of military units in the presence of the high command, followed by their ceremonial march and/or demonstration of military equipment.

      With what conscience can you demonstrate something that DOESN'T EXIST???
      1. 0
        23 July 2025 16: 05
        "You slander them in vain,
        Clever and eloquent!
        Everything is going well for the evil spirits,
        And even CONSCIENCE is clear." (V.S. Vysotsky)
        1. +2
          23 July 2025 17: 47
          Not for the sake of self-interest, but only based on lived experience...
          Perhaps you seriously believe that forums, exhibitions, discussions, officer meetings, army conferences and other party conferences are capable of bringing the military to the highest level?
          But I have other priorities:
          "One minute decides the outcome of a battle; one hour the success of a campaign; one day the fate of an empire."
          "The whole earth is not worth even one drop of uselessly spilled blood."
          "I don't like rivalry, demonstrations, counter-marches. Instead of these childish things - eye, speed, pressure - these are my leaders."
  9. +5
    23 July 2025 07: 49
    And then we wondered why in our army, wherever you spit, there is nothing. Drones, sights, first aid kits... So they are all there... They remained on the forums' margins.
    that every year, following the results of the “ABT Masters” competition in Ostrogozhsk, 15–20 cars were written off due to being completely worn out

    How much equipment and other things does our military-industrial complex produce that it was enough just for the forum...
  10. + 16
    23 July 2025 07: 50
    The new minister assessed the ambiguous PR effect of such exhibitions - ordinary people are beginning to see the light, seeing at the exhibitions all these Armatas, Fedorov robots and Uranians-9 and other budget embezzlement, in reality they see a loaf of bread at their own expense, assault trucks, tanks scalded with junk collected in nearby villages and uncomfortable questions arise.
  11. + 13
    23 July 2025 08: 24
    It is because of articles like these that laws are passed to prohibit searching for certain information on the Internet. laughing lol
    1. +9
      23 July 2025 19: 30
      Soon they will start recognizing as extremism not only critical materials, no matter how balanced and well-founded, but also simply an insufficient degree of praise for our "greats" (the minimum number of mandatory "hurray", "glory" and "long live" per page of text, as well as their addressing and distribution among institutions and individuals, will be specified in by-laws). Then we will start living. Once again, the country will have the best science, education, health care in the world... And the people's laughing power will be the best in the universe. It won't be long now.
  12. + 10
    23 July 2025 08: 34
    Are arms fairs necessary? Definitely necessary. On the one hand, it should be a place of pride for modern arms manufacturers, on the other hand, a place to display domestic weapons systems to foreign customers. Only there should not be so-called "promising weapons". There should be samples of what is already in service; samples of what can be quickly modernized/modified; samples of what can be quickly exported. In other words, it should be something that is already in service or can provide a quick income.

    For "promising" ones, we need not fairs, but closed demonstrations before state commissions, which must evaluate what the producers offer, at what price, in what quantities and in what timeframes. After such demonstrations, reviews and proposals must be made for possible inclusion in the budget. Or for a reasoned refusal.
  13. +9
    23 July 2025 09: 11
    I absolutely agree, the forum should have been held at least once every two years. When we heard about the second Army next year, the main reaction was "what, again??!!" and twirling a finger at a temple (and the exhibition workers, who have to re-cut the already drawn up budget for the next year - involuntary fits of thick swearing, from the head of the department to the girls at the stand).

    The second gravest mistake, stemming from the first, and possibly multiplied by the self-confidence and show-off of Kuzhugetych's team - they began to butt heads against the Ministry of Industry and Trade and MAKS. They say it is excessive and eats away at the audience. Up to the point of talking "we will cancel it altogether" and further, in the spirit of "who do you love more - mom or dad".
    When it was enough to separate them: one for even years, the other for odd years.
    At the same time, such a "friendship pact" would allow, under a plausible pretext, to eliminate the birth trauma of MAKS by moving it from an odd year to an even one, so as to butt heads not with Le Bourget, but with the weaker Farnborough and ILA (I even heard a conspiracy theory that it was German consultants who advised holding MAKS in odd years).
  14. +4
    23 July 2025 10: 44
    Do We need all these exhibitions, parades, military shows? Perhaps they are needed in peacetime, when the Armed Forces are not busy, for their intended purpose. But when there is a war, the main venue for all these events is the battlefield, and only the blood of servicemen reveals the best and worst technologies of combat operations and the conformity of equipment and weapons. All combat regulations, at all times, are written in the blood of soldiers. Such is Our world and our essence.
  15. + 11
    23 July 2025 11: 26
    However, despite all the show and trillions of rubles spent, which heartily pleased the souls of Shoigu’s team managers, there was real benefit.
    1. The qualifying stages began all over the country. Tankers began to drive and shoot, pilots - to fly and drop bombs. Yes, the conditions of the competitions were very different from the personnel training program for the worse (according to the participants, they were completely useless), but the movements began.

    Yeah... we saw the results of this "preparation" right at the "Army" forum in 2020.
    The T-90A was the first to fire. It fired three TURBS at the target, two of which missed. The T-80U was the second to enter the firing line. It also fired three TURBS, and again two missed. The T-80UE-1 was the third to take up position. This time, only one of its three TURBS missed. The T-80BVM was the fourth to fire. All three of its TURBS missed the target. The T-72B3 was the fifth to fire. It fired four TURBS, and all of them hit the target. Thus, out of 16 shots, only 8 ended in successful hits, i.e. 50% of misses on stationary targets at the training ground.

    Let me remind you that this was a demonstration performance for which the best crews were to be selected.
    However, this is national. At the genotype level. People's Commissars Tukhachevsky (especially) and Voroshilov were also doing approximately the same thing in the 30s. But in 1941, a hangover set in.

    The hangover came in 1940 - after the SFV. When the country's leadership received not the bravura reports of the NKO about the steady growth of combat and party-political training of servicemen, but reports on real combat operations - with a series of defeats of the "invincible army of the world's first state of workers and peasants." Meat grinders in the Summa sector and in the Kexholm direction, regular cauldronization of divisions north of Ladoga, complete unpreparedness for war in winter, etc. Even the IVS had to admit that the USSR did not have a modern army.
    And yes - we are now experiencing the same SFV in a new way. Only instead of a class approach - a national-ideological one. And so, even the beginning is the same - "let's liberate the oppressed people", "the army will not fight against brothers", etc. In general, fraternal nationality and pro-Russianness in all fields.
    A harmful prejudice has taken root that the population of countries entering the war with the USSR will inevitably, almost to a man, rise up and go over to the side of the Red Army, that the workers and peasants will greet us with flowers. This false conviction grows out of ignorance of the real situation in the neighboring countries. The war in Finland showed that we did not conduct political reconnaissance in the northern regions and therefore did not know with what slogans to go to this population and how to work among them. We often treated the peasants as the working class, but it turns out that this peasant is a big kulak, a Schutzkor member, and he reacts in his own way.
    © Speech by L. 3. Mehlis at a meeting on ideological work in the army and navy on May 13, 1940
    1. +1
      23 July 2025 17: 03
      Quote: Alexey RA
      And yes, we are now experiencing the same SFV in a new way.

      Russian-Japanese, to be more precise.
      1. +8
        23 July 2025 17: 11
        Quote: IS-80_RVGK2
        Russian-Japanese, to be more precise.

        It would have been Russo-Japanese if Ukraine had attacked suddenly and without declaring war. And if we had not gone in 2022 under the slogan of "liberation of the brotherly people."
        Alas, we now have December-January 1939, which has dragged on for three years. sad
        1. +3
          23 July 2025 18: 19
          Quote: Alexey RA
          It would be Russian-Japanese

          It would be Soviet-Finnish if we had Soviet power. And what is not there is not. But there are two capitalist countries operating special operations against each other. And don't let the slogans confuse you. This is the same "small victorious special operation".
  16. +3
    23 July 2025 12: 37
    People always need a spectacle. The forum gave it. In vain they say that we don't need it. It is a showcase of the Russian defense industry and it should be beautiful. And we should sell weapons abroad on it if we want our factories to develop. One big contract saved UVZ from closing in the past. Only "Army" was made a laughing stock. There are no presented samples in our own army and they were unable to demonstrate their effectiveness.
    And these promising models...
    1. +1
      24 July 2025 02: 48
      And not only for ordinary people, but also for specialists, forums are useful, so as not to stew in their own juice, especially for the military with their closed system. The problem here is something else - the classic effective-managerial "constant positive growth", when, against the background of the success of the first attempt, they begin to build inflated expectations for all subsequent ones, and the further - the steeper. Naturally, such explosive growth can never be achieved in a normal way, especially in such inertial industries as the military industry, so everything naturally rolls down into Potemkin villages and Ryazan miracles with all the consequences. As a result, another generally good idea is discredited, money and time are wasted on absolute nonsense, but managers and others scribbled beautiful reports and received big bonuses.
  17. +5
    23 July 2025 12: 48
    ugly, pretentious and stupid, but it worked.

    summary, so to speak. It worked, but there is a nuance)
  18. RMT
    +4
    23 July 2025 14: 40
    "The conditions of the competitions were very different from the personnel training program for the worse (according to the participants, they were completely useless), but the movement began.
    An attempt to find a silver lining in a barrel of tar. Shoigu is not to blame, he tried, "movements have begun". Enormous amounts of money went into the Ministry of Defense and what came out of it?
  19. +4
    23 July 2025 17: 12
    In our case, all forums are convenient platforms for cutting up money and nothing more.
  20. +3
    23 July 2025 19: 50
    No, well, why didn't we catch up with our Indian friends in beauty during the times of Shoigu Parades and tank biathlons????. After all, we fell just a little short. Have we really fallen behind India forever? What a disaster...
  21. +4
    24 July 2025 00: 11
    The author is certainly a great guy! The message that runs through the entire article like a "red line" is: "If the author does waver, it is only in line with the party line."
    In general, in addition to everything that Shoigu’s team wanted to implement, the creation of a positive image of the army They succeeded. And you can't argue with that.

    The SVO has revealed the technological backwardness of the Russian army, and in areas that are considered a priority today

    Well, here's the justification
    In general, it is worth admitting that at the annual forums that have flown into the country in billions, it was a completely different army that was on display, which is currently operating at the front. Alas, but these are two different armies. Name Shoigu forum "Army of the Future"

    By 2036... but they didn't make it, it all started earlier...
  22. +1
    24 July 2025 00: 41
    There are military exhibitions in different countries, and experience suggests that it is reasonable to hold them once every 2 years. A similar picture with many air shows. Once such a center was created, experience was gained in holding them - we must continue. But the content should be changed - not a party with dust in the eyes (noodles on the ears), but a real military exhibition. Add Russian extreme sports for spectacle, and what, it will not hurt, but still, first and foremost - an exhibition. And separate them by years with MAKS, it should not be in the same year. Close them, throw the experience in the trash - our enemies will rejoice. Let's give them a reason?
  23. 0
    24 July 2025 01: 00
    And the author does not connect the cancellation of Army-2025, MAKS-2025 and some other events with... the instinct of preservation?
    And it seems that the author is not at all aware that before Trump's public grievances against Uncle Vova and the beginning of the 50-day period for a truce, the resumption of aid to the Ukrainians,
  24. 0
    24 July 2025 01: 15
    And the author doesn’t connect the cancellation of Army-2025, MAKS-2025 and some other events with... the instinct of self-preservation?
    And it seems that the author is not at all aware that before Trump's public grievances against Uncle Vova and the beginning of the 50-day period for a ceasefire, the resumption of aid to the Ukrainians, and talk of strikes on cities, everyone was stubbornly preparing for Army-2025. Everyone - both civilians and military. And nothing foreshadowed its cancellation. One instruction from the president in a circular last week stopped everything.
    Most likely, the risk is that such an event could be simply dangerous for visitors, including children, and this would greatly damage the image of both the country and the Armed Forces.
    Ukrainians They can reach Moscow, why give them another reason?
    It is too early to draw the conclusions that the author described, let's see what happens next year or after finishing and winning the SVO.
    And besides the biathlons, the "not new" ones, the "show-offs" at the "Army" there is also a business program, within the framework of which there are presentations, discussions on various topics, new contacts, cooperation and collaboration are made.
    And at the military education cluster, children and their parents can get acquainted with educational institutions, perhaps choose their future military profession, determine an interesting specialty for themselves and become an officer.
    The military-patriotic component of the "Army" has always been worthy.
  25. 0
    24 July 2025 15: 15
    It is strange that the organizer of these amusing farces, the costumed General Shoigu, by his main calling a NEVOR, sits quietly in a soft chair and again mumbles another heresy from a piece of paper instead of talking with the investigators of the Investigative Committee in a cozy pretrial detention center.
  26. 0
    4 August 2025 17: 46
    When I first came to Patriot Park, I didn't understand at all who it was built for. Huge territories, exhibits scattered over large distances. If it was intended for "mere mortals", then it is extremely inconvenient for them. It is difficult to get there, even more difficult to leave from there. If you compare it with MAKS - it was quite compact, you can see both flights, and static exhibits, and exhibition pavilions.
    For official delegations? Wouldn't it be easier to take them directly to the testing grounds, manufacturing plants, or parks?
    A cathedral built for an unknown person, and it is unclear with what money (there were different rumors). And it is unclear who is visiting it
    What was also striking was the huge number of various wheeled vehicles of similar purpose. Why? Who will produce all this? And if so, how will this entire zoo be serviced?
    Questions were raised by the emblem that was displayed on every corner and was remarkably reminiscent of the notorious American B-2 bomber.
    In a word, a gigantic "Potemkin village". Although, it seems to me that it is rather some kind of analogue of the Egyptian pyramids...