Military Review

In the US, they are developing a convertible 3 generation

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At present, the United States is the only country in the world that is equipped with convertible planes. In service with the US Navy and Marine Corps is the convertiplane Bell V-22 Osprey. In the near future, he may have an alternative. Speech is about the convertoplane, which received the designation Bell V-280 Valor ("Valor"). The design of this aircraft was presented to the general public on 10 on April 2013. With the new V-280 project, the company is going to take part in the tender announced by the US Army to create a medium multipurpose convertoplane or helicopter, which in the 2030-ies will have to replace the fleet of obsolete UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters. The flying prototype of a prospective aircraft will tentatively have to fly into the sky in 2017.


It is worth noting that to replace the UH-60 Blackhawk, as well as the combat Boeing AH-64 Apache, which are in service with the US Army, the V-280 Valor is not the only option considered. Its possible competitors are now called a helicopter with coaxial propellers AVX Aircraft, a joint development of Boeing and Sikorsky, built on the basis of the experimental X-2 and a kind of aircraft under the abbreviation EADS, details of which are practically unknown so far. However, in case of success of Bell, V-280 Valor will be able to replace around 4 thousands of AH-64 Apache attack helicopters and BlackHawk multipurpose UH-60 helicopters. The convertoplan has the following advantages over these machines: high speed, increased flight range, the efficiency of the machine, according to the manufacturer, is 2 times higher than helicopters and their hybrids.

The US military has not yet made formal demands on promising converters and helicopters. At the same time, they nevertheless announced that the new aircraft would have to surpass all existing rotary-wing aircraft in terms of their flight range, speed, payload, fuel efficiency and ability to hang in the air. It is assumed that the new machine will be able to hover at a height of at least 3000 meters, as well as fly at cruising speed at a height of at least 9100 meters. At the same time, the development of such machines will require the creation of universal engines adapted to perform various tasks, as well as a system for providing pilots with oxygen.
In the US, they are developing a convertible 3 generation

It is reported that the new convertiplane belongs to the 3 generation, but according to what specific features Bell Helicopter has divided the convertiplanes into generations, it is not specified. Now the only commercially available device of this type is the tiltrotor V-22 Osprey, most likely, this aircraft belongs to the 2 generation. In this case, it is likely that the first generation of Bell Helicopter will recognize the convertible planes XV-3 and XV-15, which were created in 1950-1970s. At the same time, the company is engaged in the creation of such machines not only for the military. The Americans, together with the Italian company AgustaWestland, are developing the AW609 convertoplane designed for the needs of the civilian market.

Unlike the convertible V-22 Osprey, whose screws were tilted with the engines, in the new American development the engines will be fixed in a horizontal position, and the transition from airplane mode to helicopter mode will be done with the help of tilting the screws alone. The convertible V-280 will receive a straight sweep wing (on the V-22, a reverse sweep wing is used). The wing will be manufactured as a single piece using the Large Cell Carbon Core technology, which reduces the weight of the entire structure and reduces production costs. In addition, this technology allows you to quickly identify defects that occur during operation of the device.

Bell V-280 fuselage will be made of composite materials. Also in the design of the aircraft provided by the electric remote control system (fly-buy-wire) with triple channel duplication and V-shaped massive tail. The use of such plumage will somewhat reduce the effective Valor scattering area, as well as stabilize the flight in aircraft mode.

A key element of the project is to reduce costs and simplify the design compared with mass-produced V-22. The wing of the convertible V-280 will be made in the form of one large composite panel. Also, the base model V-280 will not receive a rather complicated wing folding mechanism, which is used on the marine version of the V-22.

Use on the tiltrotor V-280 rotors with engine nacelles fixed in a horizontal position, eliminates any danger during the departure of paratroopers from the car through the side doors. It also facilitates firing and increases the angle of fire from machine guns, which can be installed in the doorways, during the approach to the target or landing on the ground in case of detection of the enemy. In addition, this design reduces the technical risk, and also eliminates the need to certify the engines of the device at different angles of inclination. Bell Helicopter is confident that the airflow will be located at an intermediate level between conventional helicopters and the V-22 Osprey.

According to published data, the tiltrotor V-280 Valor will be able to develop cruising speed in 518,6 km / h, and its combat radius will be in the range 926-1481 km, ferry range will be 3,9 thousand km. For onboard embarkation and disembarkation of the crew, as well as firing, it is planned to use 2-e side doors 1,8 m wide. V-280 Valor will also receive a retractable landing gear. If we talk about deciphering the name of the car, the letter "V" indicates to us the possibility of vertical take-off and landing, and 280 is the cruising speed of the device in the nodes. The crew of the convertoplan will consist of 4-s people.
Comparison of the combat radii of the UH-60 (green) and V-280 (blue)

It is reported that Bell Helicopter is ready to present the military 2-e basic models of its new convertiplane: impact and transport. The transport version of the V-280 Valor is intended for transportation of a landing force or any cargo to 11 (the maximum carrying capacity of the vehicle is not specified). The radius of the flight zone of the transport convertoplane will be 463 km. The shock version of the convertible V-280 Valor is positioned as a possible replacement for AH-64 Apache helicopters. In the shock version of the aircraft will receive a complex of high-precision weapons in special outboard containers, and in the nose of the apparatus a special gun will be placed on a special turret.

Today Bell Helicopter, in collaboration with Boeing, is engaged in the production of V-22 Osprey converters. This machine can reach speeds of up to 556 km / h, and cruising speed is 446 km / h. The combat radius of this vehicle is 722 kilometers. The V-22 Osprey convertible is able to carry up to 32 military personnel or payloads weighing up to 9 tons. Machine guns of 7,62 and 12,7-mm caliber can be mounted on it, as well as a six-barreled 7,62-mm machine gun in a special outboard container.

It is worth noting that the new convertiplane did not secure a happy future. Until 2030, there are still 17 years left over which much can change significantly. Initially, the US military expected to receive prototypes of a promising rotary-wing machine with a new power plant back in the 2010 year. But because of the start of the global financial and economic crisis and the subsequent reduction in spending on some promising defense programs, the deadlines for their end were shifted to a later time. But even now, being engaged in optimizing the country's budget, the US government has obliged the military to annually reduce their spending (in 2013, by 2013 billion dollars) since March 46. And this can again lead to the postponement of a number of promising projects, and with an unfavorable outcome, even the cancellation of programs.

Information sources:
- http://www.lenta.ru/news/2013/04/11/tiltrotor
- http://www.popmech.ru/article/12951-v-280-valor
- http://pro-samolet.ru/blog-pro-samolet/776-bell-v-280-valor-konvertoplan-third-generation
- http://dokwar.ru/publ/voenny_vestnik/armii_mira/ssha_pristupili_k_sozdaniju_konvertoplana_tretego_pokolenija/3-1-0-740
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  1. Atlon
    Atlon April 16 2013 07: 48
    0
    They already wrote about this next wunderwaffe the other day ... The conclusions made last time by joint efforts: "Lies, 3,14 intimidation and provocation!" Well, I drank some dough, of course ... laughing
  2. smart ass
    smart ass April 16 2013 08: 13
    +2
    Compared to a helicopter, the difference is only in speed ?? Who will explain to me the thread, why fence such a miracle unit?
    1. Atlon
      Atlon April 16 2013 08: 23
      +7
      1961, Bykovo airport, world records for convertiplanes:
      height with loads from 1 t to 15 t - 2588 m and the maximum load raised by 2000 m - 16485 kg, D.K. Efremov on the Ka-22 rotorcraft. The Ka-22 rotorcraft, like an ordinary transport aircraft, has a large fuselage, a wing, a tail unit and two engines with pulling propellers. But this machine has two rotors, like a helicopter. Ka-22 can take off and land vertically. The flight weight of the Ka-22 is 35 tons. The speed is 350 km / h.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas April 16 2013 08: 54
        11
        Turn hovercraft and rotorcraft are different machines.
      2. Metlik
        Metlik April 16 2013 08: 55
        11
        A tiltrotor is an aircraft with rotary propellers that, when taking off and landing, operate as lifting, and in horizontal flight, as pulling (Wikipedia)
        The Ka - 22 screws are not rotary, which means it is not a convertolan.
    2. Metlik
      Metlik April 16 2013 08: 48
      +4
      Speed, efficiency, range. And besides, a good advertisement for American technology. If, except for the USA, no one in the world can create a convertiplane, at all exhibitions they will say: our equipment is advanced, and everything else sucks.
      1. smart ass
        smart ass April 16 2013 09: 10
        +2
        They’ll talk at all exhibitions .. look at what a wonderful shniyaga we have ... for a lot of money, from which there is no practical benefit .. hmmm
        1. Vanek
          Vanek April 16 2013 09: 15
          -3
          Quote: Clever man
          look what a wonderful shniyaga we have ... for a lot of money, from which there is no practical benefit.


          With clever. good
          1. Praetorian
            Praetorian April 16 2013 18: 37
            +4
            Spelled
            1. Vanek
              Vanek April 17 2013 05: 35
              -4
              Quote: Praetorian
              Spelled


              Yes, you shoo? Where?
        2. woland05
          woland05 April 16 2013 20: 00
          +2
          Why not at once? MOE, for example, it would be very useful ...
      2. Containers
        Containers April 16 2013 20: 17
        0
        In addition to the United States, they do not saw the military budget anywhere =) Even Russia is small children in this regard =)
        And about "no one can create"
        "In 1972, at the Mil Design Bureau, a project of the Mi-30 propeller arose, which has a classical scheme with a pair of rotary screws (nacelles with screws and engines). Within the framework of this project, analytical and design studies were carried out, consisting of both theoretical work and tests According to the results of these works, the corresponding studies were made in the propeller project, for example, the takeoff weight increased from 10,6 to 30 tons, with a simultaneous increase in both engine power and payload. The construction of the first flying prototypes was planned for 1986-1995, however, due to the onset of restructuring, the propeller was not built. "

        By the way, compare the osprey and mi-30 =) and also the yak-141 and f-35;) A lot was just bought during the collapse of the USSR.
  3. Atlon
    Atlon April 16 2013 08: 29
    +4
    The B-12 (also called the Mi-12, although it was not officially renamed, Homer is classified by NATO) is the heaviest and heaviest lifting helicopter ever built in the world. A distinctive feature is the lateral location of the propellers on the wings of the reverse restriction, which are driven by four D-25VF engines.
    The V-12 was developed as an extra-heavy transport helicopter with a carrying capacity of at least 30 tons, for transporting components of intercontinental ballistic missiles for the Strategic Missile Forces, the creation of position areas for which was planned in areas without paved roads.
    The first research on the design of the superheavy helicopter, which received the factory designation B-12, began in 1959. Design began in 1963.
    The helicopter made its first flight on July 10, 1968 (test pilot V.P. Koloshenko). In February 1969, it lifted 31 kg of payload to a height of 030 m. On August 2910, 6, the B-1969 lifted a cargo of 12 kg to a height of 44 m, setting a world record for helicopter carrying capacity, which has not yet been broken. The second prototype V-205 made its first flight on May 2255, 12 (test pilot G.V. Alferov).
    1. Containers
      Containers April 16 2013 20: 17
      +1
      This is not a tiltrotor.
  4. Nayhas
    Nayhas April 16 2013 09: 02
    +4
    The prospect of replacing the classic helicopter with a tiltrotor looks somewhat unrealistic. Dimensions and take-off mass are one of the main disadvantages of this scheme. And the replacement of an attack helicopter with a tiltrotor is generally nonsense.
    1. TRAFFIC
      TRAFFIC April 16 2013 10: 28
      +3
      About attack helicopters, yes, and in addition to helicopters, what you need: load, speed, range are good. And when folded, not so big dimensions.
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas April 16 2013 11: 47
        +4
        When choosing a landing site for a tiltrotor, you will have to take into account the wingspan taking into account the diameter of the screws. And if Osprey and Chinook are proportional in this regard, then Blackhawk is beyond competition. I mean, the tiltrotor has its own niche, of course, but it cannot completely replace the helicopter.
  5. newcomer
    newcomer April 16 2013 09: 44
    +3
    b-12 he is mi-12 besides records (which no one is going to beat), brought any practical benefit to the national economy? I am silent about the army - he was not lying around there ... but the "osprey" has been in the ranks for a long time, a civil tiltrotor is ready according to the same scheme (like Agusta Bell). but we have nothing of the kind and is not planned. for that we scream the loudest - how cool and brilliant we are, uryaaa and glory to us ...
  6. 12061973
    12061973 April 16 2013 10: 03
    +5
    waiting for a new part of transformers. laughing
  7. report4
    report4 April 16 2013 10: 20
    +4
    Advertising and no more: as a military machine, this wretched design is too large an area of ​​key nodes, a defeat in which leads to machine failure, and if you book these nodes, the weight will increase to incredible numbers. It would be interesting, of course, to look for a given machine (kg of transported weight) / (fuel consumption per km), perhaps it is suitable for some specific civilian needs.
    1. Rebus
      Rebus April 16 2013 13: 15
      +1
      Quote: report4
      It would be interesting, of course, to look for a given machine (kg of transported weight) / (fuel consumption per km), perhaps it is suitable for some specific civilian needs.

      payload weight - 5 kg
      radius of operation at landing load - 722 km
      Practical ceiling - 7 620 m
      Crew - 3 (MV-22) or 4 (CV-22) people
      passenger capacity - 24 paratroopers

      My personal opinion is that the Mi 26 is capable of replacing at least two such tiltrotopes ....
    2. Ilyukha
      Ilyukha April 16 2013 13: 37
      -2
      Do you know the invulnerable aircraft?
      Well, at least one?
      1. Joker
        Joker April 16 2013 13: 49
        +3
        Do you know the invulnerable aircraft?
        Well, at least one?


        It is cheaper at times and holds a blow))) A tiltrotor is more for the country's image, and wars with the Papuans. "Workhorses" survive in real combat. I like the Kamovskaya scheme with coaxial screws more.
        1. Ilyukha
          Ilyukha April 16 2013 14: 12
          -3
          Yes, interesting shots, lucky guys! And how many were unlucky?
          The tiltrotor has the main advantage - the flight range. The disadvantage is the complexity and the price. There really is someone who can afford it. Someone - "second-hand Lada", someone the latest model of "Lexus"
          By the way, the whipping on the road is the same))
        2. Argon
          Argon April 17 2013 03: 04
          0
          kind Joker, the example you chose is unsuccessful; after 6 seconds it will explode in the air
  8. _KM_
    _KM_ April 16 2013 11: 46
    +1
    In practice, "Osprey" does not realize all its advantages, but its disadvantages, especially the worst efficiency in comparison with helicopters, are constantly manifested. Now here's a new devourer of kerosene and taxpayer money. No, I'm not sorry, but this money could be used to create a new helicopter or spend money on space exploration.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 16 2013 13: 29
      +1
      theoretically, purely from an engineering point of view, osprey is certainly more interesting than a helicopter. About the helicopter, like an aircraft, I generally can not say a good word. Practically - immediately annoying the impossibility (or the ability only once) to sit in an airplane
      1. Ilyukha
        Ilyukha April 16 2013 13: 44
        +1
        Yes, a helicopter as an aircraft is irrational in many respects, primarily in terms of stability and fuel efficiency of horizontal flight.
        It is respectable to find ways to solve this fundamental disadvantage of any helicopter. The tendency among amers is interesting - they try to come up with various lifting systems for aircraft (there are already Osprey, F-35 VTOL aircraft, several types of UAVs with VTOL aircraft), because the tactical advantages of a non-aerodrome vertical takeoff are landing has not been canceled!
        1. Containers
          Containers April 16 2013 20: 28
          +1
          The helicopter's ability to hover / land practically on a patch is its main advantage. For what it was created. It's ridiculous to look for the dignity of a hammer at a microscope, or to say that "a hammer has a bunch of drawbacks - the inability to see bacteria, for example."
  9. Metlik
    Metlik April 16 2013 12: 02
    +6
    Any fundamentally new technology is not without flaws. It takes years and decades to finalize. But, if you do not do this, we will always be in the role of catching up. Tell me - what's new here recently? Soon, not the Chinese will copy from us, but we from the Chinese.
    1. report4
      report4 April 16 2013 12: 23
      -1
      Quote: Metlik
      Any fundamentally new technology is not without flaws. It takes years and decades to finalize. But, if you do not do this, we will always be in the role of catching up. Tell me - what's new here recently? Soon, not the Chinese will copy from us, but we from the Chinese.

      Have you noticed that there is some kind of failure in your logic? In the article "about the cart with square wheels" you bring up the topic of new technologies. It is due to the fact that this design was recognized as a failure in the still terry years, no one else was involved in it and wasting time and resources on development is just a cut. And at the expense of the new - what is new "there"? I remember only the "suitcases without a handle", which they hung on themselves - it's hard to carry, and taking into account the already sawn funds, it's a pity to throw it away.
      1. Metlik
        Metlik April 16 2013 12: 56
        +5
        The stealth program was also scolded, now we are catching up with their rapper. On drones, we are completely behind. Amer go further, develop hypersound (http://vpk-news.ru/articles/14097). But are we all waiting - are we looking to get it, or not?
        Then let's rush to catch up.
        1. report4
          report4 April 16 2013 13: 23
          0
          Quote: Metlik
          The stealth program was also scolded, now we are catching up with their rapper. On drones, we are completely behind. Amer go further, develop hypersound (http://vpk-news.ru/articles/14097). But are we all waiting - are we looking to get it, or not?
          Then let's rush to catch up.

          Catch up with their flightless raptor? lol
          The emphasis on "stealth technology" on aircraft is controversial. I won't even give examples - and so everyone has them in their bookmarks. Anti-Papuan technology for a billion dollars per plane ... It's easier to hire a couple of thousand Papuans from a neighboring country for $ 100 a month and fill up your enemies with this very Papuan meat. soldier
          Hypersound)? Read about these "achievements" more closely.
        2. leon-iv
          leon-iv April 16 2013 13: 27
          +2
          The stealth program was also scolded, now we are catching up with their rapper

          lol stealth is a l-goblin f-117 program
          F-22 is another direction. And they acted correctly, waited until the amers hit the technological wall with their foreheads, and then we, too, but it’s better.
          So with convertoplanes there the problem is precisely in transitional modes.
          1. Metlik
            Metlik April 16 2013 13: 34
            +2
            No matter how we get this forehead, can we train our own before it’s too late?
            1. Containers
              Containers April 16 2013 20: 32
              -1
              It’s easier and cheaper to wait until others do the main work for you. The same Americans lived by this principle while the USSR was. Now they are trying with their puny bodies to pave the way for science. It turns out at times comical.
        3. Containers
          Containers April 16 2013 20: 30
          +1
          The "stealth" program is the thing about the basic things of which, the creator of this theory, Peter Ufimtsev, said "this is all nonsense."
  10. USNik
    USNik April 16 2013 12: 28
    +1
    What are they soaring? Everything has been invented before them. bully
    But seriously, they want a normal, smaller, and nonhemorrhagic version of V22. With a combat helicopter, this is unlikely, except perhaps just like an attack plane.
  11. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 16 2013 13: 32
    +6
    Quote: Metlik
    The stealth program was also scolded, now we are catching up with their rapper. On drones, we are completely behind. Amer go further, develop hypersound (http://vpk-news.ru/articles/14097). But are we all waiting - are we looking to get it, or not?
    Then let's rush to catch up.

    Objective point of view. I am also surprised by the "uryakalka" who claim that we have it, it is not necessary, it is "drank the dough." Speaking of the bubble. "sawn" will still give the result.
    If the country does not invest in the search for ways of technical progress, then there is a simple consumption of money, by the way, the same with the "drank".
    Now guess who will win in the long run and live better?
    1. Containers
      Containers April 16 2013 20: 33
      -2
      Well, where, where is the result?
  12. viktorrymar
    viktorrymar April 16 2013 13: 38
    +2
    "The V-280 tiltrotor will receive a straight swept wing" - it would be more correct to say a straight wing)))
    1. Containers
      Containers April 16 2013 20: 33
      0
      No. It is the "straight line" (that is, the usual). Because there is also a reverse sweep.
  13. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 16 2013 13: 56
    +1
    I liked the nacelles very much on this project. It is clear that the selection from the TVD shaft goes to the side rotary gearbox, to which the screw is attached.
    Thus, better alignment is achieved and, possibly, a reduction in the mass of the drives. Everything is easier than turning the entire nacelle.
    By the way, the states unambiguously steer in the field of mechanics for aircraft; all kinds of gearboxes and bearings made of ceramics have been developed, withstanding enormous temperatures and loads compared to steel, and the weight is much less.
    All hope for our nanotechnologists)))
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 16 2013 15: 13
      +4
      there is nothing more effective than a competent idea
    2. Containers
      Containers April 16 2013 20: 34
      0
      Read about the Mi-30. About the selection from the shaft of the theater, etc.
  14. _KM_
    _KM_ April 16 2013 15: 41
    0
    But wasn’t it easier to develop the idea of ​​a machine like Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne?
  15. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 April 16 2013 15: 43
    +4
    Kag-be immediately it should be noted that the convertiplanes according to their classification are VTOL. That is, they relate to aircraft with vertical take-off and landing ...
    Turnplanes, of course, a promising area in the aircraft industry. And sooner or later they will firmly and en masse occupy their niche in both civilian and military aviation. But they are unlikely to be able to completely replace helicopters. At least for the foreseeable future ...
    They tried to create a really working hybrid of a helicopter and an airplane for a very long time and in many countries. For example, in Germany, even during the war, a project of an aircraft with rotary propellers was being developed. After the war, tiltrotor designs were developed in Canada, France, Japan and, of course, in the United States. A number of experimental samples were built, but none of them went into series. So "Osprey" is currently the only serial tiltrotor ...
    In the Soviet Union KB them. Mile in the mid-late 1980s was engaged in the development of domestic convertiplanes. The Mi-30 family was developed, in which the machine was originally presented in three versions, which differed from each other in carrying capacity, flight range and, of course, dimensions ... Alas, this project remained on paper ...
    I will add that in the Soviet Union the word "propeller" was introduced to designate tiltroplanes, which is a logical continuation for designating an aircraft with a main rotor. Suffice it to recall the words "helicopter" and "rotorcraft" ...

    Wing Mi-30. Options Mi-30S and Mi-30D
  16. _KM_
    _KM_ April 16 2013 16: 01
    +2
    Mi-30 according to the scheme of the duck built?
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 April 16 2013 16: 19
      +2
      Quote: _KM_
      Mi-30 according to the scheme of the duck built?

      Alas, the Mi-30 is not built in any way. He remained only in the drawings and calculations ... To my great regret ...
      As for the illustration in my comment for 15:43, it probably depicts one of the Mi-30 lineup options, and it is completely possible that its final version (in case of further implementation of the project) could have a completely different external view and aerodynamic design ...

      Quote: Chicot 1
      Wing Mi-30. Options Mi-30S and Mi-30D

      Wing Mi-30. Option Mi-30L (pay attention to the reverse sweep of the wing)
      1. ramsi
        ramsi April 16 2013 16: 34
        0
        and why is there a straight wing everywhere, not a broken one? .. In addition, in my opinion, this is just the case when the coaxial screw design would be very useful. You look, and it would be possible to land in an airplane.
        1. Chicot 1
          Chicot 1 April 16 2013 19: 01
          +2
          Quote: ramsi
          why is there a straight wing everywhere, not a broken one?

          "Broken"This must be assumed to be swept. The flight speeds of such aircraft are not so high to mount a swept wing on them ...
          However, they are going to install a wing with a reverse sweep (CBS) on the new American convertiplane. By the way, this is written in an article ... Yes, and as you can see in the illustration available in my commentary at 16:19 on the Mi-30L propeller plane, the installation of a CBS was also supposed ...

          Quote: ramsi
          in my opinion, this is just the case when a coaxial screw design would be very helpful.

          Two screws (and even coaxial!) Of small diameter will not be enough for the vertical takeoff of an aircraft with such weight characteristics. Lift is not enough, however ...
          More screws unnecessarily complicate the design and increase the final cost of the aircraft itself ...

          Quote: ramsi
          could get on a plane

          Ordinary planes can land and take off on an airplane. A tiltrotor is more than a specific unit. However, like any other VTOL aircraft. It is intended for use on runways with limited dimensions, on which there is nothing for an ordinary airplane to do. In principle, for this he was created (see photo as a good example) ...

          Tiltrotor V-22 "Osprey" on the deck of the American UDC "Wasp"
          1. ramsi
            ramsi April 16 2013 19: 43
            +1
            1. a broken wing - a wing similar to the upper one at I-15, only more pronounced
            2. coaxial circuit, in any case, is preferable, because the car nevertheless turns out to be complicated, so at least universalism should be taken to the maximum. In addition, I see no fundamental objections and to install four engines
            3. all this is understandable, but I would like to have an ace in my sleeve: landing and take-off in an airplane will give an advantage in carrying capacity, and in case of an accident, that such a clunker is not superfluous
            1. Ilyukha
              Ilyukha April 16 2013 20: 22
              +2
              1.Isl-type I-15 will be difficult to implement, since inside the wing the hydraulics control the rotation of the engine relative to the wing. It is complicated, and the engines are heavy, besides the propeller blows, it makes it difficult to move))
              2.And here the coaxial scheme would have yielded traction, and on takeoff, especially. But it’s hard to see, it's up to you, colleague)
              3. Optional. Emergency landing on a rotorcraft / tiltrotor can be done in autorotation mode, which has long been mastered.
              1. ramsi
                ramsi April 16 2013 20: 36
                0
                1. I see no problem replacing hydraulics with electric drives (hydraulics on a plane are nonsense)
                2. I am Russian! ..
                3. Well, I do not believe in autorotation, but in the wing - I believe. A wing is like a wheel, you can’t imagine a better atmosphere
            2. Containers
              Containers April 16 2013 20: 38
              +2
              My God ... Not a "broken wing", but a "gull wing", and complicating an already complicated system is not worth it.
              1. ramsi
                ramsi April 16 2013 21: 35
                0
                I suspect that they have a stupid mechanical drive in the forward wing. I have nothing against mechanics, on the contrary, only - for. But in such a case, once chased by the functionality - it's silly to slow down
  17. _KM_
    _KM_ April 16 2013 16: 39
    +1
    Quote: Chicot 1
    Alas, the Mi-30 is not built in any way.


    Apparently, they will not be built. If I am not mistaken, it was from the Milev company that they chopped off the territory for the "Leroy".
    1. Chicot 1
      Chicot 1 April 16 2013 18: 39
      +3
      Quote: _KM_
      Apparently they will not build

      I hope that in our Fatherland they will nevertheless return to the theme of the propeller plane. Moreover, the operating time of the Design Bureau named after Miles are available. And we will see him in the sky ...

      The model of the Mi-30 propeller plane. As you can see, here is another lineup and a classic aerodynamic design ...
  18. family tree
    family tree April 16 2013 17: 04
    +1
    Eat. S-125. 400, 50 per cabin, 400,50 per post, 400,50 per password, capture, take on pc, automatic start. The target is hit, the expense is two. And silence. This is a 5v27 thing, but there are a lot of accelerators. Old, like me, "Neva" however, well, in export "Pechora". Oh, I didn’t want to shine, but Major Popenko, a teacher of my own, I remember from Kvadratny, they fought in partisans, they even drove them to the exercises with Metol. only one, hell, was a sapper.
  19. Rusik.S
    Rusik.S April 16 2013 17: 34
    +3
    It’s suitable for operations against peasants (as it is now in Mali). For a big war they’re lying, though the car is very interesting
  20. Ser 47RUS
    Ser 47RUS April 16 2013 18: 32
    -5
    Do you really think the Soviet woof..but 100 years ago is better than modern designs?
    1. family tree
      family tree April 16 2013 19: 56
      +1
      Do you really think the Soviet woof..but 100 years ago is better than modern designs?
      Well, I think the IL-2 with a full battle will take it down at one go. Well, not a hundred years ago, of course, the machine, and not a fighter.
      ps I believe in aero and hydrodynamics. These religions have similarities. laughing
  21. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 16 2013 18: 52
    +2
    [quote = Ilyukha] I liked the nacelles very much on this project. It is clear that the selection from the TVD shaft goes to the side rotary gearbox, to which the screw is attached.
    Thus, better alignment is achieved and, possibly, a reduction in the mass of the drives. Everything is easier than turning the entire nacelle.
    By the way, the states unambiguously steer in the field of mechanics for aircraft; all kinds of gearboxes and bearings made of ceramics have been developed, withstanding enormous temperatures and loads compared to steel, and the weight is much less.
    Who zaminusil? Weak to give a technically reasoned answer if you do not agree?
    1. family tree
      family tree April 16 2013 20: 49
      +2
      Ilyukha, if the rotary gearbox is such news for you, I would ask if only, al asked in Google. I made a diploma at the KhAI with a similar scheme, in 1984, already, well, the average ride, they sent the guy to Kirov, to the defense industry. I ran into these rotary planes on the T-42M, although I had a drive before it front axle. No, there’s not a fairy tale, count up, tank crews and flyers operating. But you understand that I received in the face not from an amateur, but from a pro, such an incentive to knowledge, well, about like a log on the route. What's wrong? ask Kars
      1. family tree
        family tree April 16 2013 21: 08
        +2
        No, with a log I got excited. The log is much more open than here. Yes, these clay bast shoes on boots. Mum. IMR went perfectly. Well, I think so.
  22. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 16 2013 18: 57
    +1
    That's what is unpleasant on this resource. There are a lot of Internet beer wise men. And technically literate specialists are few, really few. Someone minus someone, but does not give arguments.
    I know! This is one of those who pisses in the porches. He is not capable of more in life.
    1. report4
      report4 April 17 2013 09: 28
      -1
      Quote: Ilyukha
      That's what is unpleasant on this resource. There are a lot of Internet beer wise men. And technically literate specialists are few, really few. Someone minus someone, but does not give arguments.
      I know! This is one of those who pisses in the porches. He is not capable of more in life.

      Oh don’t need your school races.
      You have not presented any arguments proving your near point of view and are trying to make busy people refute it.
      And they minus you for the fact that without understanding the topic you are not even trying to study it.
  23. Pagan13
    Pagan13 April 16 2013 20: 12
    -3
    These all US projects are purely as a cover for the country after the financial collapse in the near future.
  24. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 16 2013 20: 26
    +1
    [quote = Pagan13] These all US projects are purely as a cover for the country after the financial collapse in the near future. [/ quote
    Explain it more simply: we envy that they have projects.
    They also have finances, and the collapse that is not expected by the first generation of idiots somehow does not occur.
  25. tarks
    tarks April 16 2013 20: 40
    -1
    Quote: Ilyukha
    They also have finances.

    ... partly stolen from us too. Do not forget about it.
    And whiners-piindophiles are simply obliged to become the objects of close medical analysis of the FSB.
  26. Lone gunman
    Lone gunman April 16 2013 23: 01
    +1
    yes, there were times — they sold everything — all the technologies, it remains to envy the Americans, I want to think that we are developing something similar only reactive and supersonic ...
  27. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich April 16 2013 23: 15
    +1
    Senator Mac Kane (of course, but here's the topic):
    "Osprey looks great in the sky ... when not in repair ..."
    The hovercraft, damn it, new ... We'll take a look, if they build it.
    But I think it will be as it is customary for amers: they blind pieces of 50 non-flying layouts,
    and they will finish, grind and finish, raising the price of the project to the unthinkable!
    Do you need examples?
  28. Simple
    Simple April 16 2013 23: 31
    +2
    Who is interested in convertiplanes:

    http://www.helis.com/types/tiltrotor.php
  29. _KM_
    _KM_ April 17 2013 10: 51
    0
    Still, a vintoplan is beautiful at Milevtsi. It’s a pity if they don’t build it.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 17 2013 11: 47
      0
      nothing to regret. Judging by the appearance, he would have had the same problems as the osprey
  30. _KM_
    _KM_ April 17 2013 13: 50
    0
    And if on the basis of this project a rotorcraft is made - a cross-section helicopter?
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 17 2013 14: 03
      0
      I have no idea what you are talking about?
  31. _KM_
    _KM_ April 17 2013 17: 41
    0
    On the basis of the fuselage and wings, do not make a tiltrotor, but an ordinary cross-section helicopter. As, for example, B-12 / Mi-12.
  32. ramsi
    ramsi April 17 2013 22: 05
    0
    this scheme is unsuccessful for both the helicopter and the tiltrotor. I will not describe the helicopter, but I can say the following according to the oppressor: with such an arrangement, the large screws in the swivel nacelles quite well blow the wing in horizontal flight in an airplane way, but when taking off in a helicopter way, when this is most important - not very much. And the larger the propellers and the more powerful the wing, the worse. A tempting solution would be to turn not the motors, but the entire wing with them, but then, inevitably, the transient conditions will worsen; and although no one is going to fly in them, it is still dangerous. As far as I understand, the only reasonable solution would be to use 4 engines: 2 - rigidly fixed on the swivel wing (on the wings), and those at the ends of the wings - to make them swivel. Then all the advantages of such a scheme could be realized. During vertical take-off, all 4 engines quite effectively pull the car up, then the rotary wing begins to turn into airplane mode, and those fixed at the ends "remain motionless", continuing to create static thrust. After the wing is in place, they begin to turn. Perhaps there may be some one or two intermediate positions, but these are details; I repeat, no one will fly in transient modes.
    In principle, with this approach, you can probably make the car able to take off and land in an airplane. The only serious drawback, in addition to complexity, is likely to be a very uncertain helicopter flight. That is, takeoff - powerful, but located in line 4 of the engine - is not quite what you need for such a flight. How such a machine will behave in a crosswind - generally the devil knows
  33. _KM_
    _KM_ April 18 2013 11: 20
    0
    I get it. Thanks for clarifying.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 18 2013 20: 30
      -1
      damn, actually there is one more option: 2 engines, as on the osprey, and 2 - on spaced tail fin keels (such as on mriya, ne-2, etc.) Then a completely balanced scheme is obtained in both flight modes. And in the case of the use of coaxial screws, the take-off and landing in an airplane will surely turn out. It will turn out to be all the same harder, but much more functional than the Osprey scheme
  34. Simple
    Simple April 18 2013 20: 38
    +1
    Could be so:
    the motor located in the fuselage through the generator feeds the electric motors.

    http://www.igreenspot.com/hybrid-electric-tilt-rotor-aircraft-with-inbuilt-solar
    -charging-from-falx /
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 18 2013 21: 14
      -1
      it is a toy and it will remain so
  35. Simple
    Simple April 18 2013 21: 25
    0
    It always started with toys. smile
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 18 2013 21: 59
      0
      Well, tell me, what is the prospect?
  36. Simple
    Simple April 18 2013 22: 38
    +1
    Negative inertia associated with placement is reduced.
    large moving masses at the ends of the wing.
    There is an opportunity to lighten the wing.
    There is an opportunity to more successfully control the rotor speed and output power of electric motors.
    As well as increasing the maneuverability of the convertiplane.
    The thermal signature is reduced.
    Can not necessarily be large or habitable.
  37. ramsi
    ramsi April 18 2013 23: 00
    -1
    the efficiency of the electric motor after the main engine is always lower.
    the negative inertia associated with large masses at the ends of the wing is certainly bad, but turning the screws alone without an engine is a good idea.
    lighten the wing - is that how?
    thermal signature - yes!
    uninhabited? ..- and what's the point?! ..
  38. Simple
    Simple April 18 2013 23: 32
    +1
    Efficiency of the electric motor, standing after the main engine is always lower. - I do not argue
    but the ratio of the mass of the two motors to the sum of their output power plus the doubled system of "life support" of the motors, and even through a gearbox, is somehow not practical. (however, what they are rich and happy about is the V-280 Valor, they are now
    no choice)
    lighten the wing - is that how? - the masses at the ends of the wing are smaller; the wing can be made easier.

    uninhabited? ..- and what's the point?! .. - as a means of delivery of goods.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 19 2013 07: 15
      -1
      Well, even a medium-sized car, so beautiful, will not work. Nature resists. A tiltrotor, like a osprey, also cannot be big, but nevertheless the scope of its application is more real
  39. Simple
    Simple April 19 2013 17: 45
    0
    Yesterday on the Internet on the topic of envelopes sat a bit.
    What only people can come up with:







  40. Pagan13
    Pagan13 April 20 2013 08: 19
    +1
    I wonder if there are Americans on this site? If so, then let them go from the USA, otherwise the money will end and that’s all - the country will go bankrupt, mass strikes will not help.
    Quote: Ilyukha
    Explain it more simply: we are jealous of the fact that they have projects. They also have finances, and the collapse that is not expected by the first generation of idiots somehow does not occur.
    And why should we envy? Russia has PAKFA, the best air defense systems (different systems), T-90 (maybe I'm wrong, but not quite), the best infantry fighting vehicles and landing vehicles, and good projects, in Ukraine, the Oplot tank, the best transport and passenger aircraft, all of which are not inferior to foreign models.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi April 20 2013 12: 46
      -1
      osprey is good, if only because the helicopter - like an aircraft -? !!! ...