At the end of March, a regular meeting of the Public Council under the chairman of the Military Industrial Commission under the Government of the Russian Federation was held, the agenda of which brought to the fore the most important issues for the defense industry complex on the current state of military science and the concept of development of the Advanced Research Foundation. At this event, a report was prepared under the auspices of the Public Council - “Fund for Advanced Studies in the System of Defense Innovations”. We bring to the attention of readers the speeches of the participants of the meeting (beginning in the 13 no. Of the newspaper “Military Industrial Courier”) and the closing remarks of Dmitry Rogozin.
Work ahead of schedule
Let me present my personal point of view on how the Advanced Research Foundation should work. As you know, FPI began to function 5 March. The first employees were hired, organizational and preparatory activities are being carried out. By the middle of summer, we plan to start implementing the target tasks.
Today they say a lot about the fact that the modern R & D staging system does not satisfy everyone. However, a systemic idea of what satisfies is not heard. Usually they say it's all bad. And as it should be good, if they say, it is somehow very vague. Now we are trying to do well with our employees. And if someone has sensible suggestions, then we will carefully consider them in order to do everything correctly together.
The foundation today is an experimental site. It is now outside the system-legal field, in which all other development institutions of the country and government customers reside. We can conduct appropriate experiments in order to properly organize research and development work. But for this we need to determine how it should be good. Moreover, we would like to see the corresponding proposals not in the form of appeals and slogans, but in the form of draft specific documents.
It is sometimes claimed that the current competitions are very bad. In that case, tell us how to conduct them well. We are open and ready to listen to everyone in order to formulate a common point of view, defend it before the leadership of the board of trustees, and even, if it is necessary, make the appropriate changes to the existing legal framework. The main thing is for the public to understand that we really strive to do the work entrusted to us well.
On the one hand, today we need to give freedom to the researcher so that he can purchase the necessary equipment, instruments, tools, reagents, etc. But on the other hand, there is the prosecutor's office and other supervisory bodies. And although we are exempted from Federal Law No. 94-ФЗ, let's discuss how we work differently. In this case, it is desirable that in this area the management of the fund does not constantly go along the blade of the knife. And then there are calls - free us from those or other standards of current legislation. And who will ultimately answer? There is no clear answer to this question yet.
Currently, we have a definite vision of how we should organize work. I was already bombarded with a huge amount of various projects. And they come from all sides. But the order of work in which we will analyze everything and then try to bring some projects to practical implementation will not work. The fund is set up to solve target tasks that are defined by the relevant law.
Together with the Deputy Minister of Defense, General Oleg Ostapenko, we will work seriously and closely on the threats that may arise in the near future. Forecasting for the next 5 – 10 years will be dealt with by the General Staff, and the threats beyond the horizon 15 – 20 for years are exactly the niche where we must work together. On this basis, together with the scientific community, it is necessary to offer technical means capable of leveling these threats. And it is desirable that they were an alternative.
For the past fifty years, we have constantly sought to keep up with America. It is necessary to stop it. It should offer alternative solutions, and more cheaply than the enemy. It is within these threats and hypothetical means of dealing with them that we will consider the projects proposed to us. This is one of the main targets of the fund.
In addition, FPI is obliged to organize such a system so that we do not overlook the next scientific and technological revolution. At one time, our country simply ignored electronics, computer science and biotechnology. Now, this is still my personal opinion, a new serious industry is emerging - robotics, which in the near future will play a more than significant role. It is necessary to recognize its value in time and concentrate, including at the expense of the fund's capabilities, resources in this priority area.
And in this and in other areas, we should not hit the tails. It is necessary to jointly consider how to do everything in advance. Otherwise, we will always be in the tail and constantly try to catch up with the leaders. This way, in my opinion, is longer, more costly and does not allow to properly respond to the threats facing the country.
So, in my opinion, it is necessary to formulate project tasks. The next question is how to implement them? We will start creating the so-called laboratories of the foundation. They can be at leading enterprises, institutions, industries. They must be to a certain extent independent. Probably, laboratories should be organized at the leading universities of the country. But these organizations must operate in an absolutely transparent mode of financing. For them will be formulated design tasks of the level of five years. These plans must be fully financially secured from both the wages and the material resources that will be required to carry them out. Otherwise we will not get involved in the project - without the provision of salary and appropriate equipment, failure is inevitable.
We will create such laboratories in those places where the appropriate preferential terms will be provided by enterprises. And the regional authorities will treat the presence of these research centers properly and will provide them with the “green light”. Our view is that a certain reserve should be created to conduct such high-risk studies.
And the last. We now have the term "high-risk" used in all sentences. Some proposals and developments are brought to us and they offer: let's try, but this is all a high-risk occupation. But high-risk should be understood as a certain error in the forecasts of promising means of warfare, and not in their technical implementation. The project should be included only when the belief in the success of its implementation from a technical point of view is at least 80 percent. But when we are told that the possible success is no more than 5 percent and, at the same time, they insistently propose to start the relevant research and make plans - what if it turns out? Sorry, but we are not satisfied with this procedure.
Something like this will look like the general concept of the fund. Naturally, she is still in the formative stage. We are ready to accept new thoughts. By 1 July, we hope to complete and approve the main directions and principles of work on the board of trustees. Then follow the relevant laws, according to which we will act. After this, it is no longer worth discussing that they are bad. Until 1 June, we are ready to accept all reasonable offers.
Director General of the Foundation for Advanced Studies (FPI)
Coordination is needed
The activities outlined today are highly relevant. In my opinion, to solve existing problems it is necessary to concentrate the efforts of all structures as much as possible.
In particular, a lot of work has been done. The Public Council under the chairman of the military-industrial complex made a report “Fund for advanced research in the system of defense innovations”. The work is very interesting and, of course, you can rely on it. The initial pace of work, he can ask. But, unfortunately, representatives of the Ministry of Defense were not involved in the formation of this document. As a consequence, those areas of activity that are now already formed in the Ministry of Defense are not taken into account in this document. It is necessary to make adjustments, which means that we simply lose the much needed time. Therefore, the coordination of this kind of work at all stages of our joint activities seems to us extremely necessary.
The Ministry of Defense has created a system of advanced military research and development. Those provisions that are already in force, overlap in absentia with the postulates set forth in the report. But their practical application is now impossible, since neither we nor the representatives who formed the document know what is being done from each other.
Therefore, I ask at the next meeting to allocate time to bring those areas over which we are working to coordinate actions and explain in what way the Ministry of Defense works.
In the framework of the implementation of the tasks that we face, it is necessary to translate all the declarative statements set out in the report into a practical plane. To this end, it is necessary now to formulate a specific work schedule for all interested departments in the implementation of this program. At the same time, you need to create a schedule and start working in parallel, otherwise we will lose a lot of time. Time is now the main factor in our work. The Ministry of Defense is ready to actively participate in this.
Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia, Colonel General
The problems existing in the structure of the Academy of Sciences are akin to the problems of the higher education system. But with regard to the development of the defense sector, the main flaw is the lack of an integrated systems approach to the formation of science and technology policy. The speakers spoke correctly about the need to form the state's science and technology policy, which today is only fragmentary by various ministries and departments.
There are other systemic problems. This is a lack of advanced scientific and high technology, equipment, the lack of effective management of high-tech processes to create military equipment and weapons of the new generation. But the main thing is that there are no specialists possessing world-class competencies capable of creating and integrating complex, high-tech and high-tech materials, systems, and describing processes. These conditions are just necessary for the withdrawal of the DIC to a new level of development - global and competitive.
Personnel for the defense industry should have a whole range of knowledge that is the key to successful modernization of the technical and scientific basis. They can be prepared only when real R & D for a high-tech industry is included in the decision process. And this is one of the main problems of most universities - a significant gap between the curriculum, the state of the material and technical base, the availability of modern technologies and real industrial problems.
One of these main tasks is precisely the recently established Advanced Research Foundation - identifying breakthrough areas of research and development, searching for and ordering R & D to develop and manufacture high-tech military, special, dual-use products. This requires forward-looking studies, foresight forecasts of experts and road maps. Without this, the FPI will fall into a deadlock - there will be a lot of proposals from everyone, but not a single policy, nor an understanding of which projects should be developed, will not be formed without the presence of system teams capable of determining and counting road maps of development movement.
I support the idea of Dmitry Rogozin - the foundation is obliged to work, including on the basis of university research centers, and the results must be claimed by the domestic industry.
It is clear that today Russia is interested in the real transfer of world-class advanced technologies, but tomorrow, after their development and implementation, there will come a stage when we will produce these technologies ourselves, produce or form new-generation technological chains, develop, integrate, complex . And for this, advanced training of new generation engineers is necessary.
After all, in its essence, the military-industrial complex is a professional army, engineering and technological special forces, which must be equipped with modern testing and production equipment.
The basis of national defense and security - defense enterprises. Each sector has its own scientific applied development. And in order to integrate them, to ensure cross-use, it is necessary to create centers of a new type - centers of excellence. It is such centers that ensure the global competitiveness of high-tech products of the new generation, and regional and industry centers of technological competence at technical universities could become the main pillar of the FPI.
I will note the correct remarks of Oleg Nikolaevich Ostapenko on the work that we are doing today. Indeed, each by itself. However, universities interact closely with the Ministry of Defense. We are developing a whole range of activities to create complex laboratories with the defense department.
In cooperation with the Ministry of Defense, we may have a harmonious, highly intellectual structure, ready for effective interaction. The Military-Industrial Commission and the Public Council under the chairman of the military-industrial complex, the Fund for Advanced Studies, high-tech enterprises of the military-industrial complex, leading technical universities and institutes of the Russian Academy of Sciences will also help. At the same time, everything should work on the basis of centers of excellence, centers of technological competence. This structure is ready to provide an innovative breakthrough on the broad front of the production of high-tech products for special and dual use.
If we talk about real steps, then it is necessary that the foundation and the commission take the lead. Let's do the first thing - we will organize industry specialized laboratories in selected areas at universities and get down to work tomorrow. Today, unresolved organizational issues often have a bad effect on a common cause. We talk a lot, do a little.
Rector of St. Petersburg State Polytechnic University
In a very detailed report on the Advanced Research Foundation, the large role of infrastructure that exists in the world around such structures is noted. First of all, it concerns financing. There are many funds - venture and direct investment. If transactions in venture funds reach 100 million dollars, then in private equity funds it is about billions of dollars. In the world, this is a fairly serious amount of capital - about two trillion, which tightens technology from all parts of the world. These finances are managed mainly by American and European funds.
In 2000-ies there were many deals with technology companies, just related to the specified funds. This is a very important infrastructure, which poses a certain threat to the development of technologies in Russia, because naturally, through commercialization, it pulls the cream of development into its companies.
The report states in sufficient detail that this is a great potential that cannot be ignored. To move forward-looking developments at the expense of the military-industrial complex is very good, but we should not forget about their creators, in whose minds lies the very idea, successfully realized naturally, by the need to earn money, which is in demand also in the civilian segment. This should be given considerable attention. And today, together with the Advanced Research Foundation, we should see how we can counter this.
Because the capital that revolves around the technology market has a self-organized system. Only one such company manages amounts of the order of 170 billions, moreover, capital from 150 of various sources of investment in 75 countries, most of them private. These are product sales channels using high-tech advances.
That is, it must be borne in mind that the huge market capital in the world is constricting technology.
General Director of LLC RT-Invest
Sensitive Defense Research
I would like to dwell on a few, in my opinion, key points that need to be taken into account when moving further in the sensitive field of defense research.
The first. It is necessary to understand that we act, largely relying on the experience of our American friends. But the agency DARPA is not in a vacuum of space, it is one of the elements in a very rigid structure, where there is a fairly powerful forecasting system.
One of the key elements is the RAND-corporation, which determines the strategic directions for the development of technology and science for the long-term perspective, as well as the main directions within which DARPA implements a large number of applied research.
The system existing in the Russian Federation has quite serious gaps. In the Soviet Union, these studies, forecasted in the first place, went on a fairly broad front. Today they are executed fragmentary. However, there are ideas about how this problem could be solved under current conditions.
On behalf of Dmitry Rogozin, Rosoboronzakaz together with the Academy of Military Sciences and the Ministry of Defense prepared proposals. In the coming days they will be sent to the Military-Industrial Commission.
We are talking about the creation of the National Defense and Security Strategy Center, which in the first stage should assume the function of a strategic forecast. It is assumed that at first this center will operate on the basis of the All-Russian Institute of Inter-sectoral Information with the involvement of all interested and academic organizations, the Academy of Military Sciences and, accordingly, the Ministry of Defense as the main ideologist of this process.
The second. It is important to understand that DARPA, in developing its plans for applied research, seriously relies on the results of extensive research conducted by the National Science Foundation, the Health Foundation, as well as NASA and the Ministry of Energy. Huge money is spent on this and the results of their work are essentially 70 percent at the entrance of applied research, those that start at DARPA. Preliminary study and modeling are being carried out, which makes it possible to clearly answer the question about the feasibility of various technologies.
At the moment, we also have very big problems. The Russian Foundation for Basic Research (RFBR) deals with this task almost exclusively. But in his work, relying on the budget that is not very large, he does not deal with issues of defense and security. A way out of this situation could be a basic research program, which has been prepared for a year and a half, but has not yet been launched.
At the government level, it is advisable to make a decision on the transfer for execution on the basis of the RFBR of this program, and both the foundation and the Ministry of Defense could benefit from its results. In many ways, probably, this would be a way out of this situation.
Third. How will the mechanism for implementing the future results, which the Advanced Research Foundation will receive, will function? And how they will be perceived by the Armed Forces. If you start from the experience of DARPA, everything is clear. The agency is a structural unit of the Ministry of Defense and, by default, everything that appears at the exit is perceived positively by the defense department. In this regard, we may have difficulties. It is necessary to form the mechanisms of interaction of the Ministry of Defense with the Advanced Research Foundation, to foresee them now and to fix them with relevant documents.
Deputy Director of the Federal Defense Order Service
Need to be realistic
A few comments on what has been said. First, I fully support what Makhmut Gareyev said, including his appeal to the Academy of Sciences. Then a few words about the RAS in general and what I would like to specifically suggest.
Each week, one scientific report is heard at the Presidium of the Academy of Sciences. At least every second person demonstrates the world level of our science. I propose to organize an invitation to such speeches by representatives of the NTS MIC, the Advanced Research Fund and the Ministry of Defense. These reports clearly show the applied components that can be used to create weapons and military equipment or to determine research directions in the framework of the new FPI.
Determining the strategy of the fund’s activity is an extremely important aspect to which we must return more than once. Here so far the situation is far from the safest way. It is necessary to properly deal with DARPA. This agency is a unique body that is not found either in Israel or in China, although there are similar organizations there. The French shipyard, the military component of the nuclear industry, rocket science and electronics - is run by the first deputy minister of defense, who is wearing a special engineering uniform.
I propose to pay attention to all aspects of the Academy of Sciences. In addition to several good universities, we have nothing but the Russian Academy of Sciences. It is necessary to be realistic, it should draw on the achievements it has. Excellent institutions continue to work there at the highest level with a terrible shortage of funds and personnel. But the academy is not dead. It consists not only of 80-year-old academicians. There are young scientists who work fine.
Regarding the report “From today to the day after tomorrow: Russia in the military technology race,” I’ll note that this is a very important work that requires further development. In addition, we need to deal with the concept of "cyberspace". Today, it is clear that cyber warfare is a very fashionable concept and topic, and there are also “combat cyber operations”. They have already been worked out abroad, are present in the statutes and manuals. It is necessary to set a serious research to determine what modern cyberspace is. We talk a lot about cyber attacks, cyber threats. But we need to figure out where we are in terms of securing our own cyberspace.
The strictest inventory of the extent of our dependence here on external revenues should be made. Specialists with whom I communicate on information security say that the cost of checking the tab of any component of a cyber system is generally equal, and in some cases twice as expensive as the price of the component you are purchasing.
Meanwhile, we all know what level of our dependence in this area. Now not only American systems have appeared. Over the past few years, the Chinese have unexpectedly created a company that has captured a very large share of our market.
I didn’t specifically talk today about platforms or fire weapons that are installed on them, the relationship of old platforms, new weapons, but I suggest paying attention primarily to integrated tools of intelligence, control, communications, target designation, observation and control. .
Makhmut Akhmetovich Gareev very correctly called for the study of the laws that occur in the field of science and technology. Some things are directly related to those of them that exist today in the field of techno-evolution. This applies to electronics, robotics, genetic engineering.
In order to determine the “roadmap” and see where we will or can be in 20 – 30 years, relevant research needs to be carried out (the Chinese have recently prepared their assessment report on the situation before 2050 of the year). It is necessary to study the laws of technoevolution. Our DARPA including should deal with this issue.
Academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Secretary of the Security Council of Russia (1998)
Jump from spells and appeals to practice
The presented report deserves the most careful reading. I note that the Public Council demonstrates a high level of professionalism.
The first. Proposals to combine the work of the NTS of the military-industrial complex, the Advanced Research Fund and those units of the Ministry of Defense that operate in the field of promising developments with the Russian Academy of Sciences is a very important point. Therefore, it is necessary to find a way to institutionalize this kind of cooperation. Indeed, the presence of particularly important issues and reports at the Academy of Sciences is an extremely important thing.
The second. Of course, we must bear in mind that we should not only engage the Moscow “bush” of basic science, but also look at the deep developments in the regions, that is, the work of the Ural, Siberian, Far Eastern branches of the Russian Academy of Sciences. You just have to get to them, get to them, listen to them, visit these leading institutions and understand that we are in fact still walking in gold. We simply do not know how to bend down and lift this “gold”, to use it in our work. Therefore, the main problem is the organization of work in this area.
Third. The humanitarian and technical areas of our activities should not be separated, despite the specialization of each of them. For example, today we are analyzing threats to national security, and this is mainly a humanitarian work, that is, it is connected with an analysis of the evolution of forms of warfare, a method of using military force to achieve certain results. This activity focuses on the 30-year period. And the work related to the preparation of a technical response to these threats has a planning horizon of no more than 10 years. I consider such a mismatch wrong.
They should at least match. Because technical answers, we can not look at all. They should be related to the questions posed by life itself and its evolution.
It is clear that the future should be connected with the search for such technical answers that are affordable for our budget, which should correspond to the demographic potential of the country, the technological level of development, and our understanding of the technical feasibility of what still resembles abstract Wishlist.
Indeed, you can want a lot. But it must be borne in mind that the Russian Federation is a large state by territory, and by population it is a very small country, with enormous demographic problems and a huge “hole” associated with the shortage of not just people in any specific areas, professions, but general lack of people.
As a matter of fact, we cannot protect such a large country with the available potential if we use exclusively traditional approaches in the development of weapons and military and special equipment. Every soldier we must fight for five. But to run and jump faster five times, to shoot five times more precisely - this is probably impossible. So, we must look for other ways. And they lie only in one direction - the creation of robotics, automated control systems. weapons, efficient intelligence systems, communications and much more. It is in this vein that we must work especially seriously.
Therefore, ideas related to the development of robotics and the transfer to production of our own electronic component base on Russian soil are priority areas of our work.
And one more thing - the search for non-traditional, maybe non-classical ways of military-technical response to the threats that are today in full growth. It should be borne in mind that if we talk about, say, a rocket weapon, then a rocket is a transport. The main thing is not a rocket, and the main thing is what it will bring in itself, that is, the payload. There are other possibilities for its transportation to a potential aggressor. There are other ways to give him the opportunity to drink cold Borjomi, so that the hot head is a little cold.
We need to think about it. That is, over how to ensure that our Armed Forces can become five times stronger due to the search for an adequate military technical response. But in terms of both the planning distance and the amount of information, it must fully correspond to a competent and perspective analysis of the development of military threats. All this should be linked first of all by military science, where we see a harmonious combination of humanitarian and military-technical component. They must be inextricably combined with each other.
This is what I would like to say and appeal once again to the Public Council, to the scientists who are gathered here, to the people who work in the Russian Academy of Sciences, in scientific organizations - it is necessary to organize. At this stage it is the most important task. According to the mind, to organize our common work in order to move from general spells, all sorts of appeals to practical routine activities, which will be associated with the acquisition of new skills, new experience and filling of the bins of the Homeland with a new scientific and technical background.
Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation