Military Review

What are the prospects for the Baikonur Cosmodrome? Through the thorns to ...

192
Last week, the first meeting of the Kazakh-Russian intergovernmental commission on the Baikonur complex was held with the participation of the IPC co-chairs - Deputy Prime Minister Kairat Kelimbetov and First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov. We asked Kairat Kelimbetov to express his opinion on the results of the meeting.




- Tell us about the main results of the first meeting of the IPC.

- The issue of cooperation between Russia and Kazakhstan on the Baikonur cosmodrome was really discussed on 28-29 in March of this year. at the level of the newly created intergovernmental commission. Since its creation in September, the 2011 meetings have not been held and no specific agreements have been reached.

The issue of resuming negotiations on the cosmodrome has arisen recently, in connection with the readiness of the two parties to share their vision and inform each other about the preparatory work carried out. At the first meeting, a wide range of topical issues of cooperation was considered. In particular, it is the development of a Roadmap for the joint use of the Baikonur complex, the preparation of a new intergovernmental agreement regulating the procedure for joint use of the cosmodrome, the development of its scientific and technical potential, the creation of joint missile systems, personnel training, and the participation of Kazakhstani specialists in launch services. development of the city of Baikonur.

The parties agreed to begin a concrete review of the draft Roadmap as part of a joint working group, the first meeting of which is scheduled for May of this year. On this basis, work will continue on the draft of a new intergovernmental agreement.

In addition, issues related to the implementation of the Baiterek project, further work on preparing for signing projects of international treaties governing various areas of the functioning of the Baikonur complex, including the life activity and social development of the Baikonur city, were considered.

- Is it possible to say that the outlined disagreements about the cosmodrome's tomorrow are overcome?

- We have no disagreement. We confirm the unconditional commitment of the Republic of Kazakhstan to the Lease Agreement, which was concluded in 1994, and the Agreement, signed by the presidents of the two countries in 2004, and providing for the extension of the lease term to 2050.

We believe that the Baikonur cosmodrome is an excellent opportunity for the implementation of joint programs in the field of innovation, scientific, educational and space activities. As I have already said, by the end of May we will work out approaches to creating a Roadmap for updating the legislation that governs our joint use of the cosmodrome.

As for launches, our space agencies have agreed on an agreed schedule for their implementation at 2013 year, and now we will plan this work for the medium term.

In general, until the end of the year, we will discuss and resolve on a mutually beneficial basis the accumulated issues that concern both cooperation in the space industry and the life activity of the city of Baikonur.

- What specific steps are envisaged in the Roadmap you mentioned?

“The roadmap involves updating legislation that regulates our sharing of the spaceport.” In essence, this will be a new basic agreement that takes into account mutual interests. Also in it we must take into account the prospects for the development of the city of Baikonur.

- In the informational message on the results of the meeting of the commission it was stated that the parties reached an agreement on the implementation of the project to create a Baiterek cruise ship using the Zenit launch vehicle. At the same time, a little earlier it became known that the Russian side is planning to develop its new Vostochny cosmodrome, with an emphasis on this carrier. Would such an approach in the future be an obstacle to the implementation of the "Baiterek" project?

- If in previous years the implementation of the Baiterek rocket and space complex was proposed on the Angara rocket carrier, now the parties have agreed to implement it on a phased basis on the Zenit rocket carrier.

Expert Commentary

Nurlan Aselkan, CEO of COSMOS.KZ:

- The meeting of the Russian-Kazakh IPC on the Baikonur complex was announced before the New Year. It was planned to put the problems that had previously been voiced in the press completely from a new angle and to begin a search for approaches to their solution. I must say: this is a big plus that the meeting took place as scheduled and that it took place at all.

For the first time, not only experts, but also heads of departments and heads of government at the level of deputy prime ministers looked into each other’s eyes, voiced their vision of existing problems. That is, it is certainly positive. But another is interesting. At the end of the meeting, the IPC co-chairs commented on its results in quite different ways. Mr. Kelimbetov made an emphasis on the fact that a decision was made on the final transition in the Baiterek project from one launch vehicle to another. Specifically, from the "Angara" to "Zenith". This information was presented by the Kazakh media as the main substantive component of the last meeting. The Russian side, through the mouth of Mr. Shuvalov, said that the launch schedules for the current year were agreed upon and a long-term launch schedule for the next two to three years is being worked out. The Russian Deputy Prime Minister also informed that the prospects for the development of the city of Baikonur and the cosmodrome itself were discussed in the light of new trends and suggested mechanisms for their implementation. The Russian side had no specification of the results of the negotiations on the Baiterek project and its carriers.

In general, this (when the Russian side evades the concretization of its position) during the negotiations on Baikonur is not the first time. Perhaps it is worth paying attention to, since it can be concluded that the path from the Angara to Zenit will not be easy. So many commentators and experts say.

Of course, a politically acceptable formula was found: not exciting the public, suggest a project transformation option and leave the Baiterek brand as it is. Actually, this is a complete change of the rocket and, accordingly, the construction site of the launch: instead of the former launch site of the storm, the existing zenith platform is used. Nearby there is a destroyed (also “zenitovskaya”), the question of whose restoration will be considered. That is, the rocket is changing, the place of deployment is changing, the structure and format of the project are changing. Therefore, the investments that should be invested in the project with the advent of “Zenith” are completely different. They may be less than in the project with “Angara”, but what is being discussed now involves the preparation from scratch of a number of key documents and plans. This is a feasibility study, and conceptual design, and modernization plan with a schedule of investments. So "Baiterek" is a completely new project, which is simply called as before. I guess there will be a lot of difficulties along the way.

Recently, an interview was published with the head of the Center for the Operation of Ground-Based Space Infrastructure (Roscosmos Division) A. Fadeev, who spoke about what his company does. And it provides the ground component of all launch services both at Baikonur and in the territory of the Russian Federation. Regarding cooperation with Kazakhstan, Fadeev for the first time voiced an interesting thing, which in principle is known to specialists, but it sounded at the official level for the first time. According to him, the Russian side plans to create on the basis of the 45 platform Zenit on the right flank of Baikonur a joint Kazakh-Russian enterprise that will launch missiles for our two countries in a priority order, and for the rest - in a commercial one. At the same time, Fadeev warned that very many knowledge, technologies and objects of work on the site are associated with access to rocket technologies. And many of these knowledge, information and competencies cannot be transferred to the Kazakhstani side, since they fall under the international regime for controlling missile technologies. Say, we are ready to work and we will look for ways out of the situation, but let you know.

I believe that this will be a serious obstacle to the implementation of our plans. Especially considering the fact that all the work on the launch pad is somehow connected with rocket technologies. And if you remove them from the list of works on the launch pad, you will only have to sweep, guard ...

Therefore, this question must be solved, and the sooner the better. I must say that Kazakhstan has been knocking on the control mode for rocket technologies for more than ten years. And the decision of this question was repeatedly postponed. On this occasion, there are different opinions. There is a point of view that we simply do not have the beginnings of the rocket and space industry and therefore it is difficult for us to apply for membership in this club. Kazakhstan speaks about the readiness to create the foundations of this industry - permitted, connected with the peaceful exploration of space. But the presence of the regime hinders our aspirations. There are also extreme opinions: they say our partners, including the Russian Federation, are interested in such an unfavorable, disadvantaged position of Kazakhstan. It is difficult to say how it really is, but the problem must be solved from two sides.

First, we need to formally and informally work out the issue with the members of the regime. First of all, with such leading, as the United States and the Russian Federation. I emphasize, the Russian Federation. Ask them for help in joining. And do not break your forehead on this mode when we start a big project.

Secondly, of course, we must start our own business, our experimental base, and conduct our own developments. Because as long as we develop the cosmic component, and not the military one, we have the right to create, in the end, from scratch on our own, without stealing, without appropriating. But we have the right to create. And having created, we will have more reason to do so in the future. At the moment, this is the weakest side of Kazcosmos activity.

Now back to the intergovernmental commission. She apparently outlined the very first range of issues and outlined a schedule of meetings in order to consistently solve problems one after another. The political stage, when the volitional decision forced the representatives of the countries to sit down against each other, passed relatively quickly, and now the routine begins, which, I am afraid, harbors a lot of underwater reefs.

What is this about? For example, a big problem lies in the modernization and reconstruction of the interstate agreement 2004 of the year on the Baiterek complex. For this it is necessary to remove the mention of the rocket "Angara". And since there is no Angara missile, the question arises of a partner from the Russian side. Until the last moment it was the State Rocket and Space Center. Khrunichev. If we are talking about Zenit and another launch pad, then it is clear that the center of Khrunichev is leaving the project. Who will come in his place? There are two candidates. The main one is the Center for the operation of ground-based space infrastructure, headed by Mr. Fadeev. He deals with launch services everywhere and, in the opinion of many, can become a partner of the Kazakhstani structure in this project. Another candidate is the Energia rocket corporation, which was related to the creation of the Zenit launch vehicle. It supplies the upper stage to it and quite successfully operates a similar project at sea (the so-called “Sea Launch”).

The problem of the withdrawal of one Russian participant and the arrival of a new one there, rewriting the entire legal framework is a job for at least a year. And it must be accelerated in every way. Because only we are interested in the rapid implementation of the project. I can say this, knowing the situation.

Another point that remained out of sight and somewhat alarming experts. The Zenit launch vehicle was developed in the Soviet time by the Dnepropetrovsk Yuzhnoye design bureau and is still being manufactured at the Yuzhmashzavod in this city. And the non-inclusion of the Ukrainian side in the negotiation process is not a good sign. Perhaps, the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan are going to attract Ukraine to another negotiating platform, but the sooner this is done, the more profitable it will be for the business, and for Kazakhstan as well. Since it is clear that the system of the three components is more stable, especially in the conditions of dominance of such a great space power, like Russia. Especially against the background of Kazakhstan, only taking the first steps in this direction. And then let's not forget that Ukraine is not just a formal manufacturer of missiles. She is the owner of the design and technical documentation. Without Ukrainian specialists, no action with a rocket is possible. Designer supervision of the carrier "Zenith" is conducted by specialists of the Yuzhnoye design bureau. Therefore, I repeat: the sooner we attract them, the better. Perhaps, in this regard, Kazakhstan meets certain objections from our Russian partner, but here one can only guess.

The Russian side voiced a proposal on the possible participation of Kazakhstani structures and investments in the creation of the Vostochny cosmodrome. In my opinion, this is a very interesting idea. The space industry of any country has a global market, and this should be remembered by Kazakhstani specialists. I have already said earlier that since we are engaged in the Zenit carrier, that is, there is a direct need to have our reasonable share in the Sea Launch. This will reduce the cost of production of missiles, provide customers with a large range of services. As for "Vostochny" and "Angara", then besides finance, we can bring in the developments created by the Baiterek JV team earlier. "Angara" is the main project of the Russian cosmonautics, a lot of money is spent on it, and our participation in it, albeit at a foreign cosmodrome, can bring a lot of advantages. Start-up services are a serious, high-tech business, and we must be able to work at different sites, with different carriers who are able to insure each other, to cooperate with all parties. Only in this way will be the result.
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  1. Earthman
    Earthman April 13 2013 07: 14 New
    -14
    Article nagging, oh sorry, excuse Roskosmos.
    But it is clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur, or is it a distracting maneuver
    1. Patriot of Russia
      Patriot of Russia April 13 2013 09: 25 New
      -5
      a decision was made on the final transition in the Baiterek project from one launch vehicle to another. Specifically, from the “Angara” to “Zenith”


      The Zenit launch vehicle was developed in Soviet times by the Dnepropetrovsk Design Bureau Yuzhnoye

      and so with everything. judging by the "successful" launches of recent years, there are really no problems. eating up the Soviet legacy. sawing loot
    2. avt
      avt April 13 2013 10: 56 New
      +7
      Quote: Earthman
      Article nagging, oh sorry, excuse Roskosmos.

      No, the campaign is the nagging of the Vice Prime Minister of the Republic of Kazakhstan Kairat Kelimbetov laughing “I must say that Kazakhstan has been knocking on the missile technology control regime for more than ten years.” --- And Roscosmos has everything on the matter.
      Quote: Earthman
      But it is clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur, or is it a distracting maneuver

      Of course I thought, and for a long time. Confirmation of this is the trip of GDP to Vostochny on April 12, well, read his comments on the development of manned astronautics. All the time for maneuvers is not, so time has already been lost courting Kazakhstan
    3. ultra
      ultra April 13 2013 12: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: Earthman
      But it’s clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur,
      In the light of Putin’s recent voyages and statements, it’s clear that for Russia Baikonur the stage passed and its significance will gradually come to naught! The East is the future of Russian space! hi
      1. alexng
        alexng April 13 2013 12: 52 New
        +7
        It seems that Baikonur will face the same fate as the Ukrainian gas transportation system. With the launch of Vostochny, the need for Baikonur will drop sharply, and it is unlikely to interest foreigners either, since it costs a lot of money and a big risk to build new launch sites. And the old launch sites for missiles of other countries are not suitable. So draw conclusions gentlemen.
        1. APASUS
          APASUS April 13 2013 16: 47 New
          +5
          It seems to be sawn into scrap metal at Baikonur over time, the chances are added !!
          1. Kasym
            Kasym April 13 2013 19: 25 New
            12
            In fact, on the site, unfortunately, there are no specialists who are in the topic of space affairs (such as, for example, the IAF in aviation). An interesting article appeared in the latest issue of the weekly weekly week of April 11, or rather an interview with the director of training and launch of the Energia rocket carrier and the Energia-Byran rocket and space transport system, doctor of technical sciences, reserve major general Vladimir Vladimirov GYDILIN.
            http://argumenti.ru/toptheme/n384/245850
            Interesting and informative. At least on the topic reveals problems. Read please, you will not regret. I think that only by combining efforts can one maintain leadership in the space industry.
            But blaming other friends, such as "oh you are, but we are" will not lead to anything good.
            1. Kasym
              Kasym April 13 2013 20: 13 New
              +4
              If you are too lazy to read, then I will try to briefly convey his thoughts.
              About the new spaceport. He asks 3 questions: “Where? Why? Which?”. “If a new spaceport is needed, then it’s another and in another place.” The East’s problems are transport (“The whole Transib will rise”), the corpus (At first there were 37 billion, then 47, 80, 160, 600. “But we think that it will cost 1 with a pretty penny,” “It's like an Sochi epic” ), it is necessary to carry out full-scale research and development work, to develop a feasibility study, to coordinate with the Ministry of Defense (including the cosmodrome in the state armament program). And so "pure commerce is a guarantee."
              "The program for the construction of a new cosmodrome should be national. It should have state support, like Buran, which was built by 15 ministries, 45 NGOs, 1206 enterprises, 1 million and 200 thousand people."
              "Recently, I was asked to give an expert assessment of the place of Russia in space by 2030. I wrote that it’s maximum 4-5th."
              "The hangar today is structurally imperfect, unworked. It is not known whether it will fly at all. Many developers even say that they won’t go to the first search."
              And much more.
              I am from this article, although it is not said there, but it seems that this Specialist and Professional has a view. That Russia cannot refuse from Baikonur in any case.
              1. mark1
                mark1 April 13 2013 20: 54 New
                +5
                Quote: Kasym
                "The hangar today is structurally imperfect, unworked. It is not known whether it will fly at all. Many developers even say that they won’t go to the first search."

                And how can the Angara be constructively worked out if I have never flown before? And developers who do not go on the first launch would not be bad to check the FAQ the relevant authorities - what is it that they have been developing for almost 20 years, that they refuse to go for testing ?!
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym April 13 2013 21: 12 New
                  +2
                  Mark1, hello! Are you asking me this? I quote the words of Major General Gydilin from the article. Although it can be assumed that he has in appearance. Before launching missiles, tests are carried out on individual units and assemblies. What is their interaction, sequence of work. Calculations and drawings are one thing. A test, for example at a low pace. , radiation, sun activity, it is another. It is known that unadapted to cosmos. Under conditions, Chinese electronic microcircuits led to .... I don’t even want to write further.
                  Checking the relevant authorities will not hurt. And if that, then behind bars.
                  But actually, MARK1, read the advice article.
                  Sincerely.
                  1. mark1
                    mark1 April 13 2013 21: 37 New
                    +4
                    Kasym, good evening! Well, then the questions are not for you, so if you offended - sorry. It is rather a hasty attempt to respond to an article. The Angara ground tests were completed in 2012 and all documents were signed, and it’s strange to hear about developers who deny their products as hell from incense, so this is either a disinformation or an occasion for thorough checks (a lot of money has been successfully mastered for 20 years).
                    And regarding the construction of a new cosmodrome - this is inevitable. Transport problems will be resolved (even we ship to Guiana PH), if we do not defeat corruption, we shut up corruption. But Baikonur will not lose the status of a spaceport, the Zenit launch vehicle is very good and commercial launches will only increase. Mutually respectfully
                    1. Kasym
                      Kasym April 13 2013 22: 02 New
                      +3
                      MARK 1. No apology, everything is fine. And on the occasion of the Angara. We would not refuse it if everything would be fine. She is very raw. But let's see what comes next. I am glad if she "gets".
                      Sincerely, Dayren.
                      1. ultra
                        ultra April 13 2013 23: 41 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Kasym
                        . She is very raw.
                        ALREADY FLYING! YES EVEN AT THE ACCOUNT OF THE KOREAN! good
                  2. Ascetic
                    Ascetic April 13 2013 22: 40 New
                    11
                    Quote: Kasym
                    A test, for example at a low pace. , radiation, sun activity, it is another. It is known that unadapted to cosmos. Under conditions, Chinese electronic microcircuits led to .... I don’t even want to write further.


                    Under the Angara, the USK is being built in Plesetsk and they will test it there. In Uglegorsk everything is going according to the schedule, they brought the zero cycle under the first table, now there is infrastructure and SES. Theft was, they shook hands severely. Raspberry overalls, led by Rogozin, control everything and answer to Putin personally ... No Belyalovs and Dvorkovichs, everything is closed, financing goes in stages mainly through Spetsstroy. They collect it on a business trip after May, maybe some photos I can bring.
                    1. Ascetic
                      Ascetic April 13 2013 23: 01 New
                      +6
                      By the way, our “fifth column” is slowly escalating the situation around the Vostochny Cosmodrome on the “Echo Matsy” on the eve of Putin’s visit that people in the Amur Region leave the region with their families for fear of heptyl poisoning.

                      Doubts Amur residents and State Duma deputy Dmitry Novikov. On the air of the radio station "Echo of Moscow in Blagoveshchensk" he declared:

                      - The population of the Amur Region was firmly guaranteed that there would be no missile launches using heptyl. And today everything goes to the fact that heptyl will be used. And now, even supposedly there is some kind of closed program, which should assess the consequences in terms of cancer for the Amur Region and what funds will need to be spent on treatment.
                      In general, V.V. Putin, who was planning to meet the upcoming Cosmonautics Day in the Amur Region, will have something to talk about with the local population in order to dispel people's fears.

                      link

                      So wait until the construction at the very beginning and mastered only a little more than 300 million rubles. the first swallows went, further the flows of paid dirt on this topic will increase, So we can conclude. that we are going the right way.
                      Well, the struggle for money is just beginning .. Popovkin wants to steer it himself, but it is tactfully moved, with the suggestion of Rogozin it was proposed to create a separate ministry and bring to mind the structure of the rocket and space industry .. apparently, instead of the Roskosmos agency or the ministry or Cosmoprom JSC (working title) . Popovkin in spite of the proposal to increase the number of employees of the agency (that is, nothing to change) to equate their salaries to the ministerial and introduce a 50 percent bonus to all officials in this field. In addition, we need advice on space under the president. I do not want him to lose control of such money. So we are waiting for who will win Popovkin or Rogozin, if Popovkin definitely continues the Serdyukov option, however this is only my opinion.
              2. ultra
                ultra April 13 2013 23: 39 New
                +2
                Quote: Kasym
                "The hangar today is structurally imperfect, unworked. It is not known whether it will fly at all.
                The first stage of the Korean missile is the Angara! So at least partially but it is already flying! good
            2. ultra
              ultra April 13 2013 23: 36 New
              +2
              Quote: Kasym
              I think that only by combining efforts can one maintain leadership in the space industry.
              No offense !!! What efforts can we unite with Kazakhstan in the space industry, with Ukraine yes! What does Kazakhstan produce? hi
              1. Kasym
                Kasym April 14 2013 00: 23 New
                +6
                Bye bye. hi
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym April 14 2013 12: 52 New
                  +3
                  And, of course, the spaceport!
          2. Egoza
            Egoza April 13 2013 19: 30 New
            +4
            Quote: APASUS
            It seems to be sawn into scrap metal at Baikonur over time, the chances are added !!

            Just before sawing you need to build a new one. And it will be neither old nor new!
        2. Kasym
          Kasym April 13 2013 22: 12 New
          +1
          Alexander Ivanovich, hello! Don’t worry, RK didn’t “pull out” Baikonir on its own in the difficult 90s, so that now that we have money, it will let it go. If even Russia, which I believe with labor, leaves the cosmodrome, then we will not leave it.
          Sincerely.
    4. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 13 2013 21: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Earthman
      the Russian side seriously thought about Baikonur

      Of course they think seriously. There, Azerbaijan began to be greedy with the Gabala locator. Please, the Russians thought and decided to leave it to Azerbaijan. And now they just had to blow it up, as the Balts did. Kazakhstan will begin to be greedy and they will leave it to the worn-out Baikonur. Even Israel will not bite such junk. One way or another, they will take their companions to the East.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 13 2013 21: 32 New
        +1
        1) Kazakhs decided to raise the rental price ??? Do you even know what the Kazakhs offer Russia?
        2) Russia built something in 20 years at Baikonur (both in the city and at the spaceport)? No. Russia has not invested ANYTHING in Baikonur or is not investing, money is spent only on supporting existing infrastructure (moreover, in an abridged version). The Kazakhs do not like that Russia is squeezing the last juices from the city and the cosmodrome and I understand that Russia will simply leave the dead city and the cosmodrome to the sweethearts.
  2. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 April 13 2013 08: 29 New
    10
    Kazakhstan in terms of space is an unreliable partner, constantly there are proposals to transfer the city of Baikonur under the control of the Kazakh administration. These are not just exclamations, these are proposals of people occupying a rather high position both in society and in power. Judging by the moods, any change in the balance of power and an Baikonur of Russia will be delivered an ultimatum. The Cosmodrome East is the only right decision. The main thing is not only to build a launch pad, but also to equip the life of everyone who will serve the spaceport.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. April 13 2013 11: 04 New
      +1
      If Russia leaves Baikonur, then even after Ukraine arrives there, no Customer will believe the new project. Otherwise, Ukraine would build a long-announced spaceport in Brazil. And Brazil is much more authoritative than Kazakhstan itself.

      PS. About Zenith and Sea Launch: www.firstnews.ru/articles/korporatsiya-boeing-suditsya-s-rkk-energiya/
      1. TRAFFIC
        TRAFFIC April 13 2013 13: 26 New
        +2
        Well, the work is on, here is the news http://bmpd.livejournal.com/499196.html good
        1. opkozak
          opkozak April 13 2013 19: 09 New
          +3
          Quote: Nikolay S.
          even after Ukraine arrives there, no Customer will believe the new project


          Ukraine has several operational projects on launch vehicles, the most popular are the KRK (space rocket complexes) Zenit, Cyclone and Dnieper. The Dnieper KRK is exclusively designed for Baikonur.

          Currently, the National Space Agency of Ukraine has signed an agreement with the Brazilian Space Agency on the creation of the Cyclone-4 space rocket complex. Launch of the Cyclone-4 launch vehicle will be carried out from the Alcantara Cosmodrome.
          The Zenit-3SLБ space rocket is a member of the Zenit rocket family using non-toxic fuel components (liquid oxygen and RG-1 kerosene). It was developed as part of the Land Launch program for launching spacecraft from the Baikonur Cosmodrome.
          Availability a significant fleet of missiles KRK "Dnepr" (~ 150 pieces), the long term of their warranty operation, the infrastructure of technical and launch complexes at the Baikonur cosmodrome, the fall areas of the separated parts of the launch vehicle, the ground-based measuring complex, the existing cooperation of the development companies of the Dnipro space complex, guarantee the stability of the provision of spacecraft launch services.
          1. mark1
            mark1 April 13 2013 21: 13 New
            +4
            I like - “Proton” to launch this terrible environmental damage for the Kazakhstan steppes, but “Dnepr” is a completely different matter, 150 missiles can be easily launched. And the fuel is the same!
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny April 13 2013 21: 20 New
              +3
              Kazakhs want Zenit.
              1. mark1
                mark1 April 13 2013 22: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Kazakhs want Zenit

                There is no way to do without Russia. engines and 3rd stage Russian
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny April 14 2013 02: 51 New
                  +4
                  But where did you Russians see that Kazakhs are going to do without Russians? They themselves invented crap, they themselves believed. For the hundredth time, Kazakhs say to you - we want COOPERATION. No one is going to expel the Russians from Baikonur.
                2. Jurkovs
                  Jurkovs April 16 2013 06: 53 New
                  0
                  And the fall areas of the second stage in Altai.
            2. poligraf
              poligraf April 13 2013 21: 23 New
              +5
              The Dnieper is a rocket that guarded a peaceful sky, but reduced by agreement with SUR.
              Very reliable. And there are a lot of them. You can launch satellites for a lower price than for example the French.
              Why not make money.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny April 13 2013 21: 33 New
                +2
                heptyl missiles we do not need.
              2. avt
                avt April 13 2013 21: 51 New
                +2
                Quote: poligraf
                Very reliable. And there are a lot of them. You can launch satellites for a lower price than for example the French.

                And to fill Kazakhstan, Altai with heptyl? But no, 500tki is enough. Well, those are not the times and there is no need to poison like that.
          2. Jurkovs
            Jurkovs April 16 2013 06: 52 New
            0
            Baikonur has one feature, by virtue of which only Russia can exploit it. The peculiarity lies in the fact that the fall areas of the second steps are in Altai. For any foreign launch, we will require money and environmental compliance. And you won’t have to strain in this. The West is very sensitive to ecology. It is not difficult to strangle Baikonur, consider that it is already gone. And the roar of launching rockets will no longer frighten peacefully grazing flocks of sheep.
      2. Kasym
        Kasym April 13 2013 21: 52 New
        +8
        Nikolay S. Y they say: "A good neighbor is better than a distant relative." For you, the authority of Brazil or the economy is more important. interaction with the RK? For example, the governor of the Tomsk region said in the dashing 90s that without econ. cooperation with the Republic of Kazakhstan "would stretch his legs."
        Vladsolo56. Can you name at least one example when the Republic of Kazakhstan “threw or framed” Russia or put out some ultimatums? Your comment is a game of "publicity" and nothing more, but it seems to be an adult. But RK has something to express, but it is compelled to swallow for the sake of the future. Examples, please - the first satellite of the Republic of Kazakhstan; airplanes that were transferred on account of rent for Baikonir (by the way, the first rent was ... for 1998 in the form of 3 Sy-27, which turned out to be trash and we still had to upgrade them at our own expense). This is only for Baikonyry.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. April 13 2013 23: 20 New
          +2
          Quote: Kasym
          Y they say: "A good neighbor is better than a distant relative."

          When such strategic decisions are made, emotions are not taken into account, and even the state of modern relations. If something happens, then you can’t build a spaceport in a couple of years. It is difficult to say what risks were taken into account when such a decision was made.
          - Did you consider the arguments of the Kazakh side to enter the business unacceptable? (this is the least likely)
          - is the situation expected to deteriorate in the post-Nazarbayev time? (may be)
          - They thought that it was impossible to risk the spaceport when the widowed greater Uzbekistan after Karimov exploded and created serious problems for Kazakhstan. (from my point of view, the threat from the south is most likely, and the US is planning that some kind of instability will occur in Central Asia)

          Surely serious people analyzed what was more correct. After all, not even tens, hundreds of billions of American money are at stake. And the transport infrastructure is remote and from scratch, fuel plants are already under construction, a city of thirty thousand and one to go there (by the Komsomol permit or distribution after the university now you will not send anyone), launch complexes for even heavier missiles.

          No need to perceive the real situation at the level of our everyday judgments.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym April 14 2013 00: 38 New
            +5
            What emotions! The trade turnover of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan is about 24 billion, if my memory serves me right! And with Brazil?
            - the presence of the cosmodrome, the most loaded on the planet - is this not an argument?
            - y Nazarbayev has a receiver!
            - Will Uzbekistan create Kazakhstan problems? Do you actually know our realities?
            On the occasion of the East - I'm actually not special. , so I suggested reading this article. After all, there is an interview with SPECIALIST. - RUSSIAN GENERAL, which has been in the industry all his life. That's all .
            1. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. April 14 2013 00: 54 New
              +4
              Quote: Kasym
              What emotions! The trade turnover of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan is about 24 billion, if my memory serves me right! And with Brazil?

              You do not delve into. Apparently, it’s too late for you. I mentioned Brazil as a country, Ukraine’s partner in the construction of a spaceport. As far as I understand, a commercial project is not working there yet, because This alliance does not inspire confidence among potential customers. Therefore, the RK + Ukraine option without Russia is doubtful.

              Who is Nazarbayev’s successor? 100%, what without Nazabaev will he be the first?

              After the US leaves Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, or after Karimov’s departure may collapse. I wouldn’t have sworn in your place. Especially if the opposite side is pumped up with money and weapons by the same structures that are currently occupied in Syria.
              1. Kasym
                Kasym April 14 2013 02: 05 New
                +7
                Nicholas C, good night. Y I have no desire to create a “confrontation” with you. I had in mind that the Republic of Kazakhstan has always been a real ally of the Russian Federation. The fact is that countries such as France, Israel, Sweden, Japan, as well as Ukraine expressed their intention to cooperate with Kazakhstan in space. Even China (Nazarbayev recently visited there and the new Chinese leader himself dubbed this intention) and a number of other countries, but we always considered only Russia as a priority for this. Agree that the conglomeration of these countries, far from the latter, is under the strength to do something standing in space. Tell me, why is it the same North Korea under the power to create its carrier, but RK is not. If such a task is set, then I am sure that we will do it. Example: my father-in-law doc. Physics and mathematics scientist and his colleagues from the Institute of Nuclear Physics (INP) near Alma-Ata won the competition to create a new-generation mass spectrometer (this device was the main one on Phobos Gront, which Russia launched onto Mars but crashed), which by an order of magnitude superior to everything in the world. Our scientists in this field are leaders in the world. They are in line for publication in the leading academic publications in the world. Recently, under a contract with Japan, they were preparing a scientific justification for the creation of a new generation electron microscope, which was successfully done. As Academician Yakishev said: "We have no equal in the field of reading electronic lenses."
                According to the receiver. For the sake of this man, Nazarbayev betrayed the death of his elder son-in-law - Aliyev Rakhat (he fled to the West, but now Sud - Austria begins). In Kazakhstan, Rakhaty sentenced in absentia. Rakhat, having learned that this person was being put forward in the receivers, he harassed him in the media controlled by him. But Nazarbayev was prone to all his actions. Actually, Nazarbayev cannot be called a short-sighted person, he calculates everything in perspective. Who is who, but Nazarbayev is still that fox. So, be sure that the receiver is already there, but it’s natural, naturally, it won’t do it yet - the time has not come yet. If he announces this now, then underwater games will begin, which will affect him.
                Uzbekistan. Nikolay, please look at the map. dear. All transit of export goods from Uzbekistan goes through us - they are very dependent on us. This is the first. The second one. If Russia has just begun the modernization of its aircraft, then in the RK this has been going on for a long time. For example, the site already had a photo report on the state of our aviation (look in the archive). You marvel. Our army can withstand the entire united army of Central Asia. And thirdly . Kazakhstan has given guarantees of all the nuclear powers of the world (Russia, USA, China, France, England) to protect our sovereignty in cases of aggression, after our refusal of a nuclear weapon. As for the extremists - they don’t take us prisoner, they urinate us in the toilet, without leaving the cash register. For example, do you know at least one example in Kazakhstan of the open actions of extremists? Massive? Only isolated cases when these extremists were simply shot.
                Sincerely, Dayren. drinks hi
                1. Nicholas C.
                  Nicholas C. April 14 2013 03: 33 New
                  +2
                  Dauren, what a confrontation, on the Kazakh side, you have the most balanced position. I just tried to explain the construction of a new cosmodrome not by confrontation or inability to agree, but by long-distance and external risks.

                  France has its own spaceport. I cited Ukraine as an example, because in her alliance with a stronger Brazil than RK, nothing has been achieved so far. It is not necessary to equal North or even South Korea. These are scary police states. Our man cannot live there. Moreover, they made a rocket there, so-so, small. Yes, and its condition is unclear in fact.

                  According to the "successors", etc. I happened to work with Galym Abilsiitov - deputy. Velikhov, built Troitsk and a branch of the Kurchatnik. Nazarbayev called him first deputy prime minister to Tereshchenko, the minister of science and new technologies, with a promise of a further prime minister. But it did not work out. Galym rejected your system. (Wrote about it in detail, but the site has suspended).

                  At first, Galym was engaged in just nuclear physics (in profile), Tengiz and Dzhezkazgantsvetmet. In some ways he asked me to help. So at some point I’m a little aware.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny April 14 2013 11: 53 New
                    +4
                    Come on, Kazakhstan will stop cooperating with Russia, for we do not know what will happen after Putin in Russia ... A normal argument? Why is it worse than your thoughts?
                  2. Kasym
                    Kasym April 14 2013 13: 52 New
                    +6
                    Nikolay, good afternoon! Under the “confrontation” I had in mind a “srach”, which sometimes comes to mind. But I have nothing against the East; this is the sovereign right of Russia. Kazakhstan has the same right in Baikonury - we want to receive dividends from it, and this is at a minimum.
                    As for France and others. Nazarbayev has repeatedly stated: "Do you want to work with us, come in with new technologies." They need us Energy carriers (country in particular), rare-earth metals, etc. . Instead, we can ask for something in outer space, for example. So if necessary, we will find common ground.
                    As for South Korea, you got excited - it is clearly not a police officer. Here is my question for you: “Why does Russia go to cooperate with her, but doesn’t want to cooperate with us? Why is she ready to cooperate with India on the MTC, with Venezuela, etc., but not with us? Even give loans to them for purchase of weapons "but we don’t have with us - even though we have money? Moreover, you rarely throw!" So the ally is called. Look at the comments of many of your compatriots. "Without us, Baikonir is only good at metal," etc. etc. . Why is such a derogatory attitude towards us? Here you give an example with Galym Abelsiitov. This suggests that we have members of the world level. I can tell you a dozen more. Do you know that every year 14 students from the Republic of Kazakhstan study abroad. 000 of them under the Bolashak program at the expense of the state in the most prestigious universities of the world. According to my experience (3 years of ped. Length of service at the head university of Kazakhstan, mathematician), I concluded. Sometimes a student from the depths is better than a graduate of a physical-mat. school, because he has a desire to learn. So here, if there is a need, then we will build our cosmos. industry. Be confident. But the question is: “Why?” If we are allies and create the UNION. I am sure that Russia will not leave Baikonyr.
                    By the way, Kairat Kelimbetov (referred to in this article) studied in a parallel class with me in the physics and mathematics class. school (RFMSh). I’m thinking through my dairy brother, who has contact with him and who also studied at the Russian Federal School of Music, to learn more about these negotiations, to know the underwater movements in Baikonyry. Although I suspect that he may not answer while negotiations are ongoing and no decisions have been made.
                    Here is my fellow countryman under the nickname MAREK ROZNY. It was he who first announced the name of Nazarbayev’s receiver on this site. And I fully support him. Too many facts speak in his favor (receiver).
                    That's it . With respect to you, Dauren. hi
                    1. Nicholas C.
                      Nicholas C. April 14 2013 14: 52 New
                      +1
                      [center] [/ center] Good afternoon, Dauren!
                      South Korea is a police country. When our man worked in Busan, it wasn’t even that they worked 10 or even 12 hours SIX days a week, and at the same time they had to meet with the owner on Sundays to eat noodles together. There were too many "little things", for example, a radio receiver could only be had with the permission of the police, because some ranges are generally prohibited there, etc.

                      Accidentally clicked "send", took out the site with his inhibition. I will continue.

                      I don’t understand what critical technologies you are counting on for natural resources. They are not in a hurry to share these with Russia. Think you're lucky more?

                      If the name of the successor is named, then share.

                      Galym can hardly be called a world-class scientist, since he did not deal with science proper. But he is an organizer, an activist of a very high state level with appropriate thinking. From a young age, he began as commander of the VSSO (All-Union Construction Construction Team). It was not suitable for the local nomenclature and Kazakhstan was not useful.
                      1. Earthman
                        Earthman April 14 2013 15: 04 New
                        0
                        Quote: Nikolay S.
                        South Korea is a police country. When our man worked in Busan, it wasn’t even that they worked 10 or even 12 hours SIX days a week, and at the same time they had to meet with the owner on Sundays to eat noodles together. There were too many "little things", for example, a radio receiver could only be had with the permission of the police, because some ranges are generally prohibited there, etc.

                        So, you answered the question of many inhabitants. You probably mean North Korea?

                        North Korea, Iran, Syria are inadequate countries with inadequate leaders.
                    2. Nicholas C.
                      Nicholas C. April 14 2013 15: 35 New
                      +1
                      Dauren, what kind of reluctance of the military-technical cooperation with the RK are you talking about? A couple of weeks ago there was an article about this. Now with the participation of Russia in the Republic of Kazakhstan, modernization factories and new production facilities are being built. According to the air defense systems that Kazakhstan had in the 50-60s, now there will be a huge supply of the most advanced. And unlike the countries you named, for sure, at domestic prices as allies. And a lot of other things, from ships to everyone.

                      Cosmodrome, I understand, is a sensitive topic. Because it is too expensive and very long reproducible. And since you have to build something new: launch complexes for heavier missiles, plants for new fuels, you can understand the construction in another place. These are the risks that I have already written about. Or such a moment when they built Baikonur, did someone think that Kazakhstan would be a different state. And it's good that, unlike some others, allied. Now this is the opposite wave. The borders drawn in 1922m (later for Kazakhstan) were played. And now they are afraid of these borders. What will happen after Nazarbayev? What will happen in 20 years? It was too unexpected what had already happened, and not even in Kazakhstan. We must wait, endure, everything will be fine. We still have a lot of other things, which is not so sensitive, but it will raise the joint quality of life and will certainly lead to a closer union, and even reunion. The same Galym easily became a big man in Moscow. And no one even had questions, Kazakh is not Kazakh. Because he knows how to think faster and deeper than many. And what else does a man need.
                      Dauren, with respect to you.
                      1. Kasym
                        Kasym April 14 2013 18: 21 New
                        +6
                        Nikolai, good evening to you! On the occasion of Korea: I was there three times, the son of my friend is there. Therefore, I write that this is a fallacy. Absolutely agree with you, if you go back 40 years. But not now.
                        For technology reasons - I'm not special. , so specifying is rather difficult. I know that, in my opinion, the French and Japanese can Canadians helped with the technology in Japan to adapt to their stations.
                        Imangali Tasmagambetov - mayor of Astana, former mayor of Alma-Ata. But you must understand that this is not publicly known. But y those who are “a little in the subject and move their brains” develop just such ideas - too much is said about this. Nazarbayev will not give a name until the last, as a bacchanalia in the power structures will begin.
                        About Galym, I concluded from your comment, I personally do not know him.
                        According to the military-technical cooperation. I already wrote about a fellow countryman on this form - MAREK ROZNY (here are his comments). He personally negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. There is no reason for you not to trust. The site was indeed an article dated March 22. Whatever you look for, I will quote from his comment. "Because of the snobbery of the former Russian Federation, there have already been many things that have been profited in favor of France, Israel, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, the Ukraine with which we created a joint venture in the military-industrial complex." From myself I will add France - helicopters, Israel - MLRS, Turkey and Ukraine - armored vehicles.
                        Actually, in RK there are few people who would be against the new Union. In this, I fully agree with you - we need to raise the level and quality of our life, the well-being of our peoples. Then others will catch up. Enter the total currency. I already wrote, but I repeat: the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, as twin brothers. Multinationality, economy, large territories, the presence of a large number of natural resources, etc. .
                        Regards!
                        PS And, probably, the main idea. Understand, to us, generally speaking, the space business is not enough. It is more important for us that the city and the spaceport live and prosper. “After us, even afterwards” - this is unacceptable to us.
                      2. Nicholas C.
                        Nicholas C. April 15 2013 08: 46 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kasym
                        MAREK ROZNY (here are his comments). He personally negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. There is no reason for you not to trust. The site was indeed an article dated March 22. Whatever you look for, I will quote from his comment. "Because of the snobbery of the former Russian Federation, there have already been many things that have been profited in favor of France, Israel, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, the Ukraine with which we created a joint venture in the military-industrial complex." From myself I will add France - helicopters, Israel - MLRS, Turkey and Ukraine - armored vehicles.

                        I meant an article where everything was counted in detail: topwar.ru/25597-malochislennaya-armiya-kazahstana-vryad-li-smozhet-protivostoyat
                        -gipoteticheskim-protivnikam.html Pay attention to the expected Russian deliveries.
                      3. Kasym
                        Kasym April 15 2013 15: 02 New
                        +4
                        Nicholas, hello! The fact that you write me at kirs. I read it all. These supplies are all wonderful.
                        I'm talking about another. Sorry, but y ryk-va of the Russian Federation while the fried roast does not bite. Here are some examples. Helicopters Marek negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. But the joint venture had to be done with the French. Y You turn on the same MI-8 (17) for several years, but let's do a screwdriver assembly in the RK. Mikheev was invited to Kamov helicopters. We were not going to drag all production. There are about 20 MI-6s of us (26). And you, one at a time, upgrade us every year, it suits. And now money will go to France. Is this good for our TS and the future Union?
                        Airplanes. Homony for modernization in Ukraine. And why not to Russia, guess? Transport aircraft are all funny - An-12 because of the engines. We offered various options. And nothing has changed . I had to buy S-296 (I don’t remember the exact numbering) in the USA. This year 6 pieces will be delivered. It's good ? And they could do something with our money.
                        We have 5000 tanks. Of these, 1000 have been modernized, the rest are in reserve. They suggested that Russia jointly at our repair plant (either Semipalatinsk, or Yst-Kamenogorsk) upgrade. I had to cooperate with the Turks.
                        Okay MTC. Here we take yran. Strategic raw materials. Until 2000, they flocked to the Russian Federation. In the end, they spat, cooperated with Canada, Japan, France. And when the fried petyh pecked in 2009. - stocks from the USSR began to run out. Kiriyenko (ROSATOM) arrived and then said: “We turned to a strategic partner, but everything is busy there. Our competitors already work there.” I had to plant Dzhakesheva (head of KazAtomProm) (and he did a lot to raise this industry, well done, young man, there would be more of them — he introduced a new, environmentally friendly method of extraction) in order to free the Russian field. In short, a dark story.
                      4. Kasym
                        Kasym April 15 2013 15: 04 New
                        +3
                        I can tell you about the problems of oil, gas, transit, cargo, grain. Here we, Kazakhstanis, hope that it may be now that we are in the CU and are creating the Union of the Russian Federation and will be more attentive to our allies and their problems. I welcome the establishment of joint bodies, committees, commissions.
                        Those links that you cited are only plans and intentions so far, of which there have already been an uncountable number (by one yrany they were immeasurable). But I think that in the end everything will form.
                        THEREFORE WE ARE VERY EXPERIENCED FOR THE BIKONIR. THEREFORE, I AM WRITING THAT RUSSIANS KNOW OUR REALITIES AND OUR RELATIONS. THIS KAZAKHSTAN IS A LOCOMOTIVE ON INTEGRATION IN THE POST-SOVIET SPACE, WHICH WE ARE PROMOTING SINCE 1993.
                        Thank you, Nikolai for the time and patience that you shared with our discussion! With great respect, Dayren.
                        PS This article about the small size of our army, to put it mildly, is not correct. Will explain . My relative, my wife, is a military man who was inspecting our armed forces. He told me: "Tell me the type of weapons that we don’t have. Tornado, Yragan, Grad; all of Alma-Ata surrounded them with S-300; K-50 helicopters that everyone managed to make in the USSR were standing for us (they had to be thrown for testing to Afghanistan), but didn’t; the tanks T-72 (T-80 are not suitable for our climate) and T-62 5000pcs, Acacia, Hyacinths, Peonies. There are problems in aviation and fleet in the Caspian, but they are solved. Nazarbayev shares a huge the attention of the army. Food and living space is best in the CIS. Particular attention is paid to officers and officers. Even to NATO countries, West Point was sent. There is even a MiG-31. China is close by. And during the Soviet era, when it was tense, well understood. ". I’ll add from myself. The Republic of Kazakhstan, covering an area of ​​9 states on the planet and 15% of the territory, was under military facilities: Baikonir (works), Sary-Shagan missile range (works, by the way, it’s better in technical terms, such a place in Russia can’t even find a length of about 500 km width under 100km), Semipalatinsk nuclear test site (closed), long-range radar (like Gabala - still in service), Communication Center with the Pacific Fleet (still in service, a joke about it - a submarine in the steppes of Kazakhstan), Plant bacteriological weapons in Stepnogorsk (closed) and a testing ground on an island in the Aral Sea (closed), as well as 19 large military-industrial complex plants.
                        And even you write that we have air defense of 50-60 years. This is not true . Another thing is that modernization is required and the same S-300 is not enough, at least to close other directions, also Astana (they already closed it in my opinion), south, northeast and the Caspian.
                      5. Alibekulu
                        April 15 2013 19: 59 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kasym
                        I had to go C-296 (I do not remember the exact numbering) in the USA. This year 6 stitch put.


                        C-295, sort of. In general, with a focus on the Russian military-industrial complex, the Mr. could and could very well be substituted. I am about the situation with Zhanaozen. Since KN occupies a vast territory, the so-called "dictates of space" occurs. The late Nurbolat Masanov wrote about this. By the way, he proposed to "pull down" the country through the creation of a high-speed rail system.
                        So A very important component is the ability to communicate. This is well understood by the leadership, which was reflected in the development of airborne troops .. The paradox in the situation with Zhanaozen was that there were airborne troops, but in fact there was no military transport aircraft. This leads to the actual leveling of the very essence of these troops, the loss of their main property - mobility.
                        As a result, soldiers were transferred to Zhanaozen on the old Tu-134 and Tu-154 of the Ministry of Emergency Situations with an almost fully developed lifespan.
                        You can draw analogies with the events on the Marne:
                        "the French were actually defeated. Urgently needed reinforcements.
                        To quickly strike, Galieni had to take non-standard decisions, one of them significantly influenced the course of hostilities. He put two regiments of Tunisian Zouavas on ... Paris taxis and threw them to the aid of a flanking counterattack. 600 cars "Marne Taxi" (as taxi drivers called themselves and residents of the capital) quickly transported the soldiers to the positions and the French counter-attack for the Germans came as a complete surprise. "That is, the Marne Miracle" could not have happened ..
  3. ultra
    ultra April 13 2013 23: 47 New
    0
    Quote: Kasym
    You can name at least one example when the Republic of Kazakhstan "threw or framed" Russia
    Judging by the latest sayings of your "Great Helmsman" this is not far off! hi
    1. Kasym
      Kasym April 14 2013 00: 41 New
      +5
      Michael, do not distort! Give examples to the studio. I brought, and yours "just around the corner" - empty words !!!
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 13 2013 08: 59 New
    12
    As for Vostochny, I had some perplexities, but when I looked at Putin’s visit to the cosmodrome everything fell into place. So, we are urgently preparing a start for Soyuz-2.0, a start for the Angara is already the second stage. However, the start for the Angara is almost ready in Plisetsk and flight tests will begin next year. From this it can be seen that Russia fundamentally suppresses the possibility of blackmail by Kazakhstan, and even with the worst option, it can gain cosmodrome independence in 2-3 years.
  • Urkodav
    Urkodav April 13 2013 09: 30 New
    10
    We are reaping the fruits of the friendship of peoples and Bialowieza feasts. Extrusion, blackmail, etc. Land rent is fair, but Kazakhstan has nothing to do with the cosmodrome itself. Space power, damn it ...
  • Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich April 13 2013 09: 44 New
    +7
    These unnecessary games around space rocket launches must be stopped and a Vostochny spaceport built. No space power experiences such pressure on its development of comic flights from another country / Kazakhstan /.
    1. Urkodav
      Urkodav April 13 2013 10: 22 New
      -1
      And also, to take apart and take out the starts (first of all Gagarinsky) and blow everything to ё .... So that for some people life would not seem honey
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 13 2013 19: 35 New
        +1
        Cosmodrome - the property of Russia ??? Are you confusing anything? Russia is a tenant, not an owner. Blast whatever you want at home. And smear with honey there.
        1. Urkodav
          Urkodav April 14 2013 02: 57 New
          -2
          And no one asked the Jews. This does not concern Israel.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 04 New
            -1
            Jaeger Sende is a complex of Bolmas, Dariger bar. Ol Sagan is a lump in the front. Men kazakpyn, Kazakstannyn azamatymyn.
            1. Urkodav
              Urkodav April 14 2013 03: 18 New
              -1
              I can’t find it on the Internet. Do you want to not hebrew?
              And here write in Russian.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 24 New
                -1
                Magan Lichkada Jazz. Men Sagan by phone Beremin. Phone arkyly kazakshya byari tusinderemin. Write in a personal letter, I’ll give you my phone number and there by phone I’ll explain everything in Kazakh to you where Kazakhs live.
                1. Urkodav
                  Urkodav April 14 2013 05: 12 New
                  -1
                  It’s known where the Kazakhs live, and where you write “Marek Rozny (5)” is interesting. States, Israel? Or closer? Do trolls pay well?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny April 14 2013 11: 50 New
                    +1
                    Wipe the monitor away from drooling. I am writing to you in Russian, although I’m not sure that you understand this language adequately. Can you be a Jew yourself? Moreover, not an ordinary normal Jew, but a special provocateur who is paid from the State Department to drive wedges between allies? Is Urkodav something encrypted in Hebrew? And then you learned the Russian language for disguise. Passport scan come on.
                    1. Urkodav
                      Urkodav April 15 2013 00: 06 New
                      0
                      You, cheap State Department, provocateur, Russophobe and just a piece of shit. You and a couple of renegades, sit here under the flags of Kazakhstan and for the same amount of money, on behalf of the Kazakhs incite ethnic hatred. How many nicks do you have? What so few advantages did you teach yourself? Passport scan? Xy to your mouth! Do not yap in Russian, your masters can surrender you to Russia, but here you sit down, according to several articles at once. Ciao Bombino! laughing
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz April 13 2013 10: 10 New
    +4
    It is necessary to stop this Amer’s expression "Nothing personal, only business!" Let them have it there. And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan. There is no other way. What does the East have to do with it? This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan. And do not forget - from here for the first time a man flew into space! This is already a world place!
    1. Kurbashi
      Kurbashi April 13 2013 10: 19 New
      +1
      Quote: Yankuz
      And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.

      Don't you think that you have a perverted understanding of friendship? wink Did you ask the Kazakhs? Do they even want to be assimilated? You my friend, in my opinion, went into the wrong steppe ... a story in the 40s also knew assimilators from the Reich and what they ended up with, we also know at least my grandfather assimilated them so far they probably remember lol
      1. Chavy
        Chavy April 13 2013 10: 33 New
        +7
        Better to be occupied by the USA? Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, pays tribute to the US Federal Reserve at $ 45 billion. All resources go west, if only not for Russia? Russia will have to save you once again, all the CIS countries then ask for a protectorate.
        1. Kurbashi
          Kurbashi April 13 2013 10: 47 New
          -3
          Quote: Chavy
          Russia will have to save you in the next

          so far no one has saved us, and God forbid any salvation from you, including wink Let everything be normal this time ... And then where does the United States and assimilation do you at least read what we are talking about and do not need to shove the United States and the West into the discussion for no reason.
          1. Chavy
            Chavy April 13 2013 10: 57 New
            +3
            You were not saved? Yes, you live at the expense of the Russian Federation now, hundreds of thousands of migrant workers work in Russia and transfer money to families on pilaf. And where is assimilation? Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian. Your fellow countrymen guest workers will now take exams for knowledge of the Russian language in Russia to work.

            You will inevitably get closer to Russia, as it feeds you. And the United States occupies the bases and imposes nat. question. Do you like such nationalism? - Work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.
            1. Kurbashi
              Kurbashi April 13 2013 11: 06 New
              -3
              Quote: Chavy
              And where is assimilation?

              So you don’t even read, but get into a discussion
              read carefully:
              Quote: Yankuz
              And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.

              Quote: Chavy
              work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.

              We work and we advise you to work too so that other visitors do not work for you wink
              And it is necessary to cross from one topic to another and arrange a tear ...
              And remember, not the fact of who is saving anyone ... in the Second World War it was Middle Asia who saved and sheltered millions of refugees from Russia, and our guys fought the Germans the same thousands of kilometers from their homeland ... you should not suffer from short memory syndrome ...
              And last but not least about and without reason to push the US base and other crap ... here we are talking about something else.
              1. Chavy
                Chavy April 13 2013 12: 05 New
                +3
                As far as I know, there is a decent number of Uzbeks who perfectly speak Russian, living in Russia, and not in Uzbekistan at home and having children from Russian women. And there are many Uzbeks living in Uzbekistan who dream of doing the same thing as their former fellow migrant workers. At least Russia gives today the opportunity for residents of the CIS countries to work for themselves and create families, and feed families in their homeland.
                There is still a trend when Uzbek, Tajik working in Russia returns to his home begins to throw mud at Russia. Such are not grateful, spit in the well from which they drink because of their pride?
              2. Chavy
                Chavy April 13 2013 12: 22 New
                +5
                We all saved and died during the Second World War. We were one people, and the fact that Hitler attacked mainly Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and did not go to Asia was the merit of all of us, while WE developed Asia, transferred and created hundreds of industries, built infrastructure, and developed culture.
            2. Kurbashi
              Kurbashi April 13 2013 11: 09 New
              +3
              Quote: Chavy
              Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian.

              My comrade, my native Uzbek language, which I know perfectly, I am proud that I am Uzbek, but at the same time I’m not a scrap as someone to learn both Russian and English, and at the same time knowing them at the level of a native speaker I will never forget even when living abroad that I am UZBEK ...
              1. Chavy
                Chavy April 13 2013 12: 14 New
                +1
                No one bothers you to be proud of your nationality, to be assimilated means that you speak Russian daily, earn thanks to Russia, read Russian literature, know history, marry a Russian woman. Nobody requires you to become Russian :) You just need to choose partners who are closer and who help your nation and do not include the American "Russian bear that wants to eat you and shred you" -
                1. Kurbashi
                  Kurbashi April 13 2013 12: 34 New
                  0
                  Quote: Chavy
                  No one bothers you to be proud of your nationality, to be assimilated means that you speak Russian daily, earn thanks to Russia, read Russian literature, know history, marry a Russian woman.

                  Comrade, let us choose for ourselves what to read, what to eat and whom to marry ... We don’t intend to lose our identity for the sake of you or, especially, others ... And it’s not for you to decide who to donate and who to not.
            3. Yeraz
              Yeraz April 13 2013 11: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Chavy
              You were not saved? Yes, you live at the expense of the Russian Federation now, hundreds of thousands of migrant workers work in Russia and transfer money to families on pilaf. And where is assimilation? Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian. Your fellow countrymen guest workers will now take exams for knowledge of the Russian language in Russia to work.

              You will inevitably get closer to Russia, as it feeds you. And the United States occupies the bases and imposes nat. question. Do you like such nationalism? - Work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.

              Well, knowledge of the Russian language cannot be called assimilation. Assimilation is still different. Putin speaks German, but this does not mean that he is assimilated Russian.
              Assimilation is when a person, relatively speaking Russian, who is completely Russian by blood under the influence of a foreign nation, behaves, thinks and considers himself a representative of this nation. Here are the Tatars, and yes, many of them are assimilated.
              1. Chavy
                Chavy April 13 2013 12: 03 New
                0
                Knowledge of the language and living in Russia are the main factors of assimilation, the rest depends on a person’s desire.
                1. Alibekulu
                  April 13 2013 13: 01 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Chavy
                  Knowledge of language and living in Russia are the main factors of assimilation

                  You know how your position is similar to the position of our natspats in Kazakhstan, our hurray Kazakhs ... they also want it from Russians and Russian speakers living in Kazakhstan .. they also want everyone living in Kazakhstan to know the Kazakh language, especially since and you say since they live in Kazakhstan .. wink
                  1. Chavy
                    Chavy April 13 2013 13: 37 New
                    0
                    I think that Russian and Kazakh living in Kazakhstan need to know Russian and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is not necessary to force, and not to yell in the media in vain, methods must be changed by the national patriots of Kazakhstan.
          2. ia-ai00
            ia-ai00 April 13 2013 18: 22 New
            -1
            Yes, if not for Russia, you would all be like Mao Dzedong! And about the United States - you want to own the secret developments of Russia, and in advisers you have AMERA and BRITAIN! Correctly Russia leads friendship with you looking around, “both yours and ours” - slippery politics!
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 04 New
              +3
              Quote: ia-ai00
              Yes, if not for Russia, you would all be like Mao Dzedong!

              And what did the Chinese defeat us in some kind of war? Since when have they become warriors? How many times my ancestors needed, so many times the multimillion-dollar China was smashed. Even during the time of the Russian Empire, the Chinese constantly complained to the Russian administration that the Kazakhs freely cross the border and do what they want in Xinjiang and the Chinese soldiers can do nothing. Of course, I understand that your ethnic pride is trying to show that the Kazakhs supposedly owe the Russians for their existence, but this is complete nonsense. China will tear up the ass when it decides to go over for the Dzungarian Alatau, all Kazakhs will slaughter Chinese soldiers without feeling the slightest feeling. And the Uighurs will definitely explode if China attacks Kazakhstan. And even if there were no CSTO, both Turks, and Azerbaijanis, and Kyrgyz, and Tatars and others would climb into a fight with the Chinese for the Turks. Plus, the Muslim factor will play. Otdzhihadim China on the very tomatoes in our steppes and still cross the "river". Of course, we will defeat the Russians faster than the Chinese, but without the Russians we can handle it. Not the first time.

              Quote: ia-ai00
              And about the United States - you want to own the secret developments of Russia, and in advisers you have AMERA and BRITAIN!

              We don’t need anything from Russia for free. Russia is offered cooperation and co-financing. If it’s wild for you, then it’s your problem. And regarding the personality of Tony Blair, he does not advise Kazakhstan on issues of domestic and foreign policy. He is needed to lobby for Kazakh interests in Britain. And first of all, to neutralize our opponents. Which Blair did perfectly. Our opposition in Britain was given in the ass by an English court. We don’t need anything else from Blair yet.

              Quote: ia-ai00
              Correctly Russia leads friendship with you looking around, “both yours and ours” - slippery politics!
              Citizenship is not the time to change with such a mentality? Go to where the "right policy" is and from there fight without remorse against the Kazakhs and Kazakhstan. And do not say that you are supposedly friendly and sincere towards the Kazakhs. Seen enough of these in the 90s. Thank God, they dumped them and they’re no longer gundos here. You would not spend nerve cells, go to the "normal" country. It will be healthier for health. And in Kazakhstan and without you, there are enough normal adequate Russians, whom the Kazakhs consider to be their own. Someone honors you and, God forbid, still think that all Russians in KZ are like that. Do not cast a shadow on our Russians. Change the climate.
              1. ultra
                ultra April 13 2013 23: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Thank God, they piled up and they’re not gundos here anymore.

                Well, that's decided who with whom hi the way!
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny April 14 2013 02: 58 New
                  +1
                  If some Kazakh - a citizen of Russia - would write here that the Russian authorities are slippery, treacherous, Russian officials are stupid, and would say that "other countries are doing the right thing, that they don’t want to communicate with Russia" - how would you respond Would you praise this person, "understand and forgive" or consider that he is clearly living in the wrong country?
                  Why should Kazakhs smile at the non-Kazakhs who do not consider Kazakhstan at all as a state, who openly despise the state language, who don’t want to know Kazakh culture and history? Do you want to have such foreigners in your country? Ready to carry them on hand?
              2. Yarbay
                Yarbay April 15 2013 13: 55 New
                +6
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                if China attacks Kazakhstan. And even if there were no CSTO, both Turks, Azerbaijanis, Kyrgyz, Tatars and others would climb into a fight with the Chinese for the Turks

                I personally will volunteer if they take it!
            2. Kasym
              Kasym April 14 2013 14: 39 New
              +5
              Olga, can you tell me where RK "framed or threw" Russia? Or how do you write "both yours and ours"? I’m asking everyone, but no one can give even a little example!
              You live in the Republic of Kazakhstan - tell me how many places are there on the border of the Republic of Kazakhstan and China, where can the equipment go? Do not know ? And I say: one-Dzhungarskie gate, the other two passes is unlikely. Overlap Jung. the gates of forces are abundant. Moreover, we have written obligations of all nuclear powers to protect the sovereignty of the Republic of Kazakhstan. And how does China fight with us (read with the whole world)? They understand this very well. And if you look into the past - then it was on our swords that the dynasties in China changed. They built walls for generations to isolate themselves from us, but they did not succeed.
              Sincerely.
        2. Alibekulu
          April 13 2013 18: 33 New
          +6
          Quote: Chavy
          Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, is paying tribute to the US Fed in 45 billions of dollars.

          And how much does Russia pay then ??
          In the Russian Federation, after all, there is a discussion that most of the Russian "bean" is in the United States and invested in their securities .. What if this is not a tribute ?! belay If you take your logic of reasoning? By the way, in this connection, you can remember Cyprus ..
        3. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny April 13 2013 19: 41 New
          +5
          Quote: Chavy
          Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, is paying tribute to the US Fed in 45 billions of dollars.

          What kind of tops? Is US investment in Kazakhstan a tribute? Or is Kazakhstan’s investment in the United States a tribute? What did you want to say?

          Quote: Chavy
          All resources go west, if only not for Russia

          Oil and other goods of the primary sector are bought from us by the West, the East, and Russia. With the same stupid aplomb one can be indignant: "Why does Russia sell resources to the West, and not to the CIS countries ?!" Stupid, isn't it?

          Quote: Chavy
          Russia will have to save you again

          Well, when did you save us at least once? In the Russian-Martian war near Karaganda?
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 13 2013 12: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Kurbashi
        history in the 40s also knew assimilators from the Reich

        The comparison is not correct ...... At least.
        1. Kurbashi
          Kurbashi April 13 2013 12: 42 New
          -3
          Quote: baltika-18
          The comparison is not correct ...... At least.

          the naturalization of the Baltic states, Bohemia, Moravia looked exactly like that ... the late Hans Frank can confirm you wink
      3. Yankuz
        Yankuz April 13 2013 13: 55 New
        +2
        To assimilate does not always mean to conquer! Let it be known to you! In the Soviet Union, all republics were assimilated around the RSFSR, so what? Only everyone lived happily from this and the culture was at its best, people respected each other, appreciated the customs and traditions of the peoples! Russia promoted science, culture and the idea of ​​the brotherhood of peoples, faith in a brighter future. And not a dirty business, the theft of national wealth, not an extremist ideology and not a religious perversion.
      4. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe April 13 2013 14: 07 New
        -2
        Quote: Kurbashi
        Don't you think that you have a perverted understanding of friendship?

        And no one asked you as a basmache about understanding friendship, hang out on your sites if you have them and there formulate for yourself concepts of friendship, etc.
        1. Kurbashi
          Kurbashi April 15 2013 08: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          And no one asked you basmachey

          Thank you for emphasizing my essence, but I’m in my heart a basmach and proud of it wink And if you remove the jokes in the direction of keep your boorish language from him a mile stink wink
    2. Beck
      Beck April 13 2013 13: 53 New
      -5
      Quote: Yankuz
      This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan.


      It's right. Baikonur will remain a symbol of mankind's exploration of outer space, begun by Russia from Kazakhstan. As well as the concept of Sputnik and the surname Gagarin.

      And all the inconsistencies in Baikonur are business inconsistencies, not political ones. They will talk, talk our departments and agree. What not to use the good that is.

      Quote: Yankuz
      And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.


      Yes. The solution is Yankuzi or Jacuzzi at the level of its distant predecessor Lombroso. Simple as a hairstyle to zero and primitive as a nervous irritation of the chords of the worms for chemotaxis, phototaxis and sextaxises because the worms do not even have a chord thickening in the head, but not that of the brain.

      If you, a jacuzzi assimilator, have a wife who has grown up and you mean that you are a sexual gangster named Indefatigable, then I ask for Kazakhstan. Not as a guest, but as a groundbreaker. We will put you in the pen and you will insect the sheep, the flock after the flock. And your offspring, brainless jacuzzi rams, will be used for bone meal as fertilizer.

      Come over.
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 10 New
      -2
      Quote: Yankuz
      assimilate Kazakhstan. There is no other way

      Welcome to Kazakhstan, assimilator. I will personally tear off the assimilator at a meeting in Astana and make him eat with a smile on his face. Then I will talk with you about Baikonur and other aspects of Kazakh-Russian relations.
    4. Beck
      Beck April 16 2013 13: 54 New
      +5
      ADMINISTRATORS.

      Not the PATRIOTS of Russia, this is sacred, but the cheers-patriots, in their great power, insult other peoples, especially the peoples of the former USSR. There is not a single country of the neighbor on which the cheers-patriots would not take up arms. And as a rule, cheers-patriots start first.

      On this page, Kazakhstan was called various offensive expressions. And only due to the fact that the space departments of our countries, the closest creators, have current business disagreements, and which are not insoluble.

      Example. Yankuz in his koment proposed lime from history and from the future a whole people, by assimilation. Is this not a call for ethnic rejection and enmity.

      I could not resist that such as Yankuz, at the everyday level of communication, undermine the efforts of our countries towards rapprochement in the creation of the EurAsEC. To jointly respond to the challenges of our time. Answered in the style of Yankuz, answered rudely.

      You deleted my comment, issued a warning to me, and blocked my account for two days. It’s your business, YOU set the rules. But you are inconsistent. Comment Yankuza left, and this is the reason, a warning to him for inciting ethnic hatred has not been issued.

      My wish, not binding, you must be consistent and apply sanctions not only to the consequences, but also to the cause. Or change the site rules. They say that it is possible for the patriots, that cannot be for others. It will be clear.
  • AK-47
    AK-47 April 13 2013 10: 20 New
    10
    Baikonur ... This is not just a city, not just a cosmodrome and not just a word. This is the era in the life of people, in the history of mankind. With this word begins the Cosmic Era of the Earth. In the literal sense, the first messenger of people, the First Artificial Satellite of the Earth, left for Space. From here, towards the stars and immortality, the Son of the Earth - Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin flew away.

    Better not say!
  • avt
    avt April 13 2013 10: 32 New
    12
    Well, in the bottom line, we have the following. First - the Kazakh version of the type we pay and order music, did not pass. By inertia, they are still trying to get into Vostochny ---, we can make the achievements created by the Baiterek joint venture earlier. "Angara" is the main project of the Russian cosmonautics, huge amounts of money are being spent on it, and our participation in it, albeit at a foreign cosmodrome, can bring a lot of advantages. "- But the campaign does not roll laughing The second is blackmail that we’ll deal with Zenit Ukraine now, since you don’t want to set up a hangar, it didn’t cause a reaction either. Well, what about the situation with Zenit, our people know better, all the same, together with the Ukrainians we are really working with iron, and not with our fingers in the air. Are the Kazakhs thinking that it’s so easy to make a platform and shoot a car? Yes, even get into the market? ,, Starting services is a serious, high-tech business, and we must be able to work on different platforms, with different carriers that are able to insure each other, to cooperate with all parties. Only on this way will there be a result. "--- Well, the flag in your hands, the wind in the back. So they are waiting for a new player in the meadow laughing but this is their sovereign business. Well, the last, the saddest thing is Baikonur’s end. The great Soviet heritage, the monument of forgotten Victories, will slowly die. request No euras and customs union will save him. Well, nothing lasts forever under the moonlight, although it's a pity.
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 April 13 2013 18: 44 New
      +1
      So how many times can you change the lease terms? One way or another, Kazakhstani officials connected with and near Baikonur imagined themselves to be mighty, some who flew into space thanks to Russia “felt” themselves great and are not shy about putting new conditions and almost ultimatums to Russia, and that’s already. sorry not for partnerships, but for twisting hands. So it's your own fault!
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 15 New
        0
        Russia has adopted a program for the resettlement of compatriots. Go to the relevant sites, it's time for you to take a breath from Kazakh inadequate officials.
      2. Kasym
        Kasym April 13 2013 20: 56 New
        +6
        Olga, when did the conditions for renting a spaceport change? May I have the details? What are these new terms and conditions? What new has Russia built in Baikonur? Do you know that all the money from the rental of Baikonyr goes to maintaining the infrastructure of the city and the cosmodrome? The Kazakhstanis do not see anything, in terms of money. But did you know that the Republic of Kazakhstan independently supported the "pants" of the spaceport and the city until 1998? Russia did not help a penny, but earned on whom. pyskah! And where is justice, tell me please? Are you at all in the subject? Then do not insert, sorry, your 5 cents.
        A constructive dialogue is needed, with the proper use of the spaceport for mutually beneficial cooperation. The one-goal game will not benefit anyone, otherwise we will remain (both Russia and the Republic of Kazakhstan) with nothing. Read the link I gave above. There the pros say specials. who worked all his life in space.
        Sincerely, your fellow countryman.
  • GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO April 13 2013 11: 18 New
    +8
    With the launch of the Vostochny Cosmodrome in Skovorodino, the Baikonur Cosmodrome, the fate of the Ukrainian GTS awaits. Ukraine has a GTS, but no gas, and Kazakhstan will have a Baikonur Cosmodrome without rockets. Russia has set its sights on independence from Wishlist for rent, payments, etc. from the Kazakh authorities. And it is reasonable, it is not known where the political pendulum in Kazakhstan will swing with the departure of Nazarbayev, who will guarantee that the United States will not arrange Syria-2 in Kazakhstan.
    1. plotnikov561956
      plotnikov561956 April 13 2013 12: 57 New
      -1
      See the map ... where is Skovorodino ... and where is the Free ...
  • GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO April 13 2013 11: 18 New
    0
    With the launch of the Vostochny Cosmodrome in Skovorodino, the Baikonur Cosmodrome, the fate of the Ukrainian GTS awaits. Ukraine has a GTS, but no gas, and Kazakhstan will have a Baikonur Cosmodrome without rockets. Russia has set its sights on independence from Wishlist for rent, payments, etc. from the Kazakh authorities. And it is reasonable, it is not known where the political pendulum in Kazakhstan will swing with the departure of Nazarbayev, who will guarantee that the United States will not arrange Syria-2 in Kazakhstan.
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 11: 35 New
    -4
    By 2020, everything will fall into place - Plesetsto - military spaceport. Oriental- A civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. AND Baikonur commercial spaceport.
    1. katran666
      katran666 April 13 2013 11: 54 New
      +5
      Nope, you guys don’t understand? nobody will give you the cream (that is, commercial launches) - everything will go to Vostochny. Do you want to do business - please, current at your own expense ...
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 April 13 2013 12: 44 New
        0
        katran666 nope guys, what don't you understand? -ARE YOU WHO?
        1. katran666
          katran666 April 13 2013 13: 01 New
          +3
          catch a minus for misunderstanding ... I answer - my previous post was to those guys with the Kazakhstan flag in accounts that defend the position of the authorities of their country with foam at the mouth (Baikonur’s topic has already been discussed more than once). In principle, this is quite understandable and understandable, of course, I want to continue to use what has fallen from above, earn money, proudly shout at every corner - we do not graze sheep, but a space power! Each has its own truth - Russia has its own (it does not need competitors in for a commercial launch, which will be hit by an already small price tag, it even needs less competitors in rocket science - the same Yuzhmash, for example, also wants to eat and is ready to dump everywhere and everywhere), the Kazakhs have their own, you defend it. There is still a problem with Nazarbayev's successor - if he periodically rocked out - what will happen after him?
          1. Concept1
            Concept1 April 13 2013 13: 13 New
            0
            katran666 has its own Kazakhs, and you defend it. With the flag of Kazakhstan in the accounts there are still 4.000.000 Russians if that !!!
            1. katran666
              katran666 April 13 2013 13: 25 New
              +2
              and because of 4000000 Russians in Kazakhstan, should Russia build rocket production in Kazakhstan? Or maybe it should drive “hazoposytes" to Ukraine, too, just because there are millions of Russians supporting the power of the Bais and Bandera?
              1. Concept1
                Concept1 April 13 2013 13: 43 New
                +1
                Did I tell you that Russia should build rocket production in Kazakhstan?
            2. baltika-18
              baltika-18 April 13 2013 18: 35 New
              +2
              Quote: concept1
              With the flag of Kazakhstan in the accounts there are still 4.000.000 Russians if that !!!

              As of January 1.01.2011, 3, there are 750 million XNUMX thousand people in Kazakhstan in Russia.
              Census of 1989 - 6 million. 228 thousand people.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 29 New
                -1
                And how many millions of Russians fell from Russia over the past 20 years? Who kicked them out?
                And how many Germans are now in Russia? Che left for their historical homeland?
      2. Concept1
        Concept1 April 13 2013 12: 49 New
        -2
        I had in mind that Russia would not leave Baikonur anyway. And for this you need to do something on Baikonur !?
        1. katran666
          katran666 April 13 2013 13: 04 New
          +1
          Have you ever seen a bull being cut? stroking behind the ear, calming, then bang! and this ... doesn’t it remind you of anything?
        2. avt
          avt April 13 2013 13: 11 New
          +5
          Quote: concept1
          I had in mind that Russia still would not leave Baikonur

          So after all already leaves! And not of our own free will .------- ,, There is a point of view that we simply do not have the beginnings of the rocket and space industry and therefore it is difficult for us to apply for membership in this club. Kazakhstan speaks of readiness to create the foundations of this industry - permitted, related to the peaceful exploration of outer space. But the existence of a regime impedes our aspirations. There are also extreme opinions: they say that our partners, including the Russian Federation, are interested in such an unfavorable, such disadvantaged position in Kazakhstan. It is difficult to say how it really is, but it is necessary to solve the problem from two sides. "----- Who and with what fright or terrible hangover will you create production ?? Do you seriously believe that you will pay the money and everyone will come to teach you, technologies to transfer and produce a competitor for yourself? Here, stupid "amers and Russians will do? Well, yes, there is still the European Union laughing

          ,, Firstly, it is necessary to formally and informally work out the issue with members of the regime. First of all, with such leaders as the USA and the Russian Federation. I emphasize the Russian Federation. Ask them for help in joining. And do not break your forehead about this mode when we start a large project. "---- request laughing Well, there are no words .... And there will be commerce for recycling. Something the Chinese will buy in their entirety, but mostly scrap metal
          1. Concept1
            Concept1 April 13 2013 13: 25 New
            +1
            You won’t leave and you know why? because it contradicts the general policy, as well as the CU and the common economy space. Russia Builds the East in order to become independent of the Wishlist of Kazakhstan! but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!
            1. avt
              avt April 13 2013 13: 43 New
              +4
              Quote: concept1
              because it contradicts the general policy, as well as the CU and the common economy space. Russia Builds the East in order to become independent of the Wishlist of Kazakhstan! but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!

              This mantra has already reached the space. There will be SPECIFIC BINDING documents and when EVERYBODY WILL EXECUTE them, then we can talk about a common policy. But while the process is in progress, Baikonur will die. Just as unnecessary, right at the start of manned launches on Vostochny. And commerce in terms of launches will be carried out without Kazakhstan, well, such a spaceport is unnecessary, it was built for the Empire, Russia cannot be pulled if there is an Eastern, marine, by the way commercial on the basis of Zenith, launch and French Guiana. That would be the Angara ... but Yelbasy with his Wishlist completely repulsed the hunt to put her there. So, just for scrapping request sorry no matter how.
              1. Concept1
                Concept1 April 13 2013 14: 07 New
                0
                Okay, wait and see. Now it’s only visible that Russia is taking time and all is thinking what to do with Baikonur after 2020. And it is not clear that there will be a Market or an amusement park, or maybe there will be so many orders for SC launches that Baikonur will come in handy! ...
                1. ia-ai00
                  ia-ai00 April 13 2013 20: 05 New
                  -1
                  If they wanted to work productively with Russia, they would not have changed the terms of the lease several times in the five-year period, and they would not have “consulted” with Amers and Britons. If a chair staggers under a booty, it is either repaired or thrown away, if it cannot already be repaired ...
            2. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe April 13 2013 14: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: concept1
              but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!

              That's right, as a backup pad in case of war and nothing more.
          2. Concept1
            Concept1 April 13 2013 13: 39 New
            +2
            avt Who and with what fright or a terrible hangover will you create a production?
            Well, you are clearly not telling that!
            Given the fact that Americans, French and even South Koreans use Russian engineering and technology in their space programs and do not even try to develop the same engines, they just buy them stupidly in the Russian Federation, then we can talk about Kazakhstan in this regard!
        3. ultra
          ultra April 13 2013 23: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: concept1
          I had in mind that Russia would not leave Baikonur anyway.

          THIS FACT WILL LEAVE !!! hi
    2. ultra
      ultra April 13 2013 12: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: concept1
      And Baikonur is a commercial
      Open the market in Baikonur, this is an idea! lol
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 April 13 2013 12: 56 New
        +4
        Everything is correct Michael so that there was no market there should be Roscosmos! And so very funny! laughing
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus April 13 2013 12: 27 New
    +3
    Yes, we must get rid of the objects of possible blackmail by our former fraternal republics. Because now Russia is too vulnerable and dependent. And her attempts to restore relations are perceived as weakness and arrogance. We should talk as stronger, more developed, and not as equals.
  • Alibekulu
    April 13 2013 12: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Chavy
    There is still a trend when Uzbek, Tajik working in Russia returns to his home begins to throw mud at Russia. Such are not grateful, spit in the well from which they drink because of their pride?

    And how many Russians who left from Kazakhstan throw mud at it, including on this site ..
    Such are ungrateful request
  • plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 April 13 2013 13: 03 New
    +3
    As I read about replacing the “Angara” with “Zenith”, I immediately understood the future of Baikonur, these are huge pastures for pastoralists .. build comrades meat processing plants
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 10 New
      +2
      if, in your opinion, all Kazakhs still remain at the sheep rams level, then by this analogy do Russians still live in huts with livestock together, as in the recent past? do you have that kind of thinking?
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas April 13 2013 13: 34 New
    0
    Kazakhstan is Russia's closest ally in the Collective Security Treaty Organization and the Customs Union, and the ally is self-sufficient. Such an ally is worth a lot. The United States itself does not hesitate to support its allies with direct multibillion-dollar cash subsidies and arms transfers, as for example, to two antagonist countries: Israel and Egypt. From their closest ally, the United Kingdom, the Americans are buying weapons, such as Si Harier airplanes or Rolls-Royce engines. Amers buy grenade launchers from the Swedes, Beretta small arms from the Italians, Beretta pistols generally won a contract for deliveries to the entire Omsk army, and many more examples can be cited ... But the Russians have a little irrational logic - to leave allies and friendly countries without competence in high-tech areas (Kazakhstan without a space center, Belarus without wheeled tractors, Ukraine without airplanes and missiles, etc.) because they will “crush” and “speculate”, meanwhile, purchasing weapons from “sworn friends” on NATO. Yes, if Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine “speculated” and “crushed” then NATO tanks would already have stood near Smolensk and Rostov on the Don, and Made Made SESHA missile interceptors were based in the Southern Urals ... Kazakhs are also not deaf and blind dumb, and draw conclusions, building their military-industrial complex is no longer only in cooperation with Russia, but also with Europeans or Jews. The leadership of Kazakhstan has cosmic ambitions, even simply as a symbolic gesture, indicating the financial and industrial power of Kazakhstan and its role as a regional leader. And they will get a rocket (apparently Zenith) in cooperation with Russia (what they want) or not. The "excuses" regarding the regime of non-distribution of technologies look rather poorly, against the background of the transfer by Russia of rocket technologies in the same Angara, South Korea. Or Brazil, which has the same space ambitions as Kazakhstan, will gain competence in space and rockets from Ukraine on a mutually beneficial basis.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe April 13 2013 14: 21 New
      +5
      Quote: Aeneas
      Amers buy grenade launchers from the Swedes, Beretta small arms from the Italians, Beretta pistols generally won a contract for deliveries to the entire Omsk army, and many more examples can be cited ..

      Well, pistols, machine guns, and grenade launchers - this is please, but in space technology do-it-yourself competitors grow? -This fire, we have already passed it.
  • DeerIvanovich
    DeerIvanovich April 13 2013 13: 43 New
    +3
    the Kazakh elite could not curb their appetites, snickered, even Nazarbayev was already having a difficult time managing the situation ...
    all state-building infrastructure should be in its own territory, so that the East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas April 13 2013 13: 46 New
    -1
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny on Dalniy is a promising market nearby ..
    Do you mean the DPRK? belay
  • avt
    avt April 13 2013 13: 56 New
    +2
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    so East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...

    Here! Namely. It’s quite a predictable neighbor from whom you know exactly what to expect. And who has not sung for a long time that Russian and Chinese are brothers forever.
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz April 13 2013 14: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Beck
    Quote: Yankuz
    This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan.


    It's right. Baikonur will remain a symbol of mankind's exploration of outer space, begun by Russia from Kazakhstan. As well as the concept of Sputnik and the surname Gagarin.

    And all the inconsistencies in Baikonur are business inconsistencies, not political ones. They will talk, talk our departments and agree. What not to use the good that is.

    Quote: Yankuz
    And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.


    Yes. The solution is Yankuzi or Jacuzzi at the level of its distant predecessor Lombroso. Simple as a hairstyle to zero and primitive as a nervous irritation of the chords of the worms for chemotaxis, phototaxis and sextaxises because the worms do not even have a chord thickening in the head, but not that of the brain.

    If you, a jacuzzi assimilator, have a wife who has grown up and you mean that you are a sexual gangster named Indefatigable, then I ask for Kazakhstan. Not as a guest, but as a groundbreaker. We will put you in the pen and you will insect the sheep, the flock after the flock. And your offspring, brainless jacuzzi rams, will be used for bone meal as fertilizer.

    Come over.

    We’ll come, of course, if you have everything in the USA that way. And we are assimilating you all, or you’ve already become insolent - you already got the whole planet!
    1. Beck
      Beck April 13 2013 14: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: Yankuz
      We’ll come, of course, if you have everything in the USA that way. And we are assimilating you all, or you’ve already become impudent - you already got the whole planet!


      What does the USA have to do with it. This program jams then this or that other flag hangs out. I am writing from Kazakhstan. Come over.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe April 13 2013 14: 26 New
        -2
        Quote: Beck
        . I am writing from Kazakhstan. Come over.

        Through a server in the CIA?
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 40 New
          +2
          Beeline in Kazakhstan uses American IP addresses. All claims to Beeline.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym April 13 2013 22: 19 New
            +2
            Marek, salaam, glad to see and read your comments! “Priblik” clearly does not know our realities and the history of the cosmodrome, and they write so, when some specialists are all as always.
            Sincerely, Dayren.
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz April 13 2013 14: 09 New
    +2
    Quote: Kurbashi
    Quote: Chavy
    Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian.

    My comrade, my native Uzbek language, which I know perfectly, I am proud that I am Uzbek, but at the same time I’m not a scrap as someone to learn both Russian and English, and at the same time knowing them at the level of a native speaker I will never forget even when living abroad that I am UZBEK ...

    That’s the main thing! People should respect each other first of all - as a neighbor of a neighbor in apartments, streets, and in countries. And where should the Uzbeks go for knowledge, culture, science (unless of course they need all this)? To America or what? Well, well ... They will teach them there, the Americans are, first of all, businessmen, and this must be remembered!
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas April 13 2013 14: 26 New
    -1
    Quote: avt
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    so East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...

    Here! Namely. It’s quite a predictable neighbor from whom you know exactly what to expect. And who has not sung for a long time that Russian and Chinese are brothers forever.

    the Chinese have these cosmodromes, probably 4 pieces ... And it remains to be seen how many are disguised in the Gobi desert. so that the prospects of the Chinese market are somewhat exaggerated. Of course, I hope that the East will add the population of the Russian Far East, and the Chinese will sing again about the brotherhood with the Russians and how the Kazakhs will join the CSTO and the CU, having returned to the heap the territories transferred by Russia over the past 20 years.
    1. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe April 13 2013 14: 30 New
      -4
      Quote: Aeneas
      Aeneas UA

      It seems to me that you are not Kazakh and not Russian, but a banal Jew, painfully your thoughts are burry.
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 13 2013 14: 33 New
        +3
        I general Ukrainian repeat And sho is what burr?
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe April 13 2013 22: 00 New
          -5
          Quote: Aeneas
          I vobschet Ukrainian feel And sho this, what burr?

          This is me Ukrainian. And you nameless “motya”, no matter how much you shock, nor when you become a Ukrainian.
          1. Aeneas
            Aeneas April 13 2013 22: 48 New
            +5
            and you almost guessed my name winked For you, of course, I’m glad that you feel like a Ukrainian, but you have a subjective opinion about me, which let me disagree. repeat
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz April 13 2013 14: 39 New
    +5
    Dear, enough already! Everyone should understand - God forbid, what will happen in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, where will all people run? To Russia of course! Where else? After all, Russia - at all times it was like an elder brother to our neighbors, and now we must behave with dignity and as an older brother in relation to the younger ones, and vice versa - the younger in relation to the older one.
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas April 13 2013 15: 12 New
      +7
      in the USSR everyone was equal, and there were no older, younger, second cousins ​​and other miserable orphans. When there was a grinding into the heads of fellow citizens that someone is older, smarter, “feeds everyone”, “he defeated everyone”, etc., then the Union collapsed. Even before the actual legal registration of all this action. Baikonur is one of the few “sacred cows” of the Union that still connects almost all of our countries, and Kazakhstan also made an effort to prevent it from “making ends” in the dashing 90s. I am not against the East, more and more is needed cosmodromes, good and different, are far better than throwing trillions of money into ski jumps. But I am against the "closure" of Baikonur, it is harmful to everyone (Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus), although this whole performance takes place under cheers, patriotic hooting, bouts of arrogance, and dizziness from success.
      1. Beck
        Beck April 13 2013 16: 31 New
        +7
        Quote: Aeneas
        But I am against the "closure" of Baikonur, it is harmful to everyone (Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus), although this whole performance takes place under cheers, patriotic hooting, bouts of arrogance, and dizziness from success.


        And where did you come from so real? And then there are many all with a bang. Let's go to the East and everything here will rust. Of course it will be bad if Baikonur closes. It will be bad for everyone. The US will remain in the pros. But those who are against the United States last five dollars lay out and do not think about it.

        And then, I’m not special, but why did the East have to be built so far east? This is to bring equipment and apparatus across the country, at every launch. Deliver fuel, torture astronauts. Yeah. Such latitude, even to the south, is also in the Sea of ​​Azov. Unclear.
        1. mark1
          mark1 April 13 2013 19: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: Beck
          Such latitude, even to the south, is also in the Sea of ​​Azov. Unclear.

          And where will the spent steps fall?
          1. Beck
            Beck April 13 2013 19: 28 New
            +3
            Quote: mark1
            And where will the spent steps fall?


            And where do they fall from Baikonur?
          2. Aeneas
            Aeneas April 13 2013 22: 58 New
            +3
            during the Union, they launched from Cap Yar, but the steps will still fall on Kazakhstan ... Probably the East is still the most “ideal” option, so to speak, although everyone will be lazy to monitor launches. but the same Americans did not fool around about this even during the Cold War, and launched shuttles under the nose of the Soviet "fishing seiners."
      2. ultra
        ultra April 14 2013 00: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Aeneas
        When there was a grinding into the heads of fellow citizens that someone is older, smarter, “feeds everyone”,

        IMHO the "younger" people thought that the "senior" lives at their expense, but it turned out not quite so or not at all! hi
    2. avt
      avt April 13 2013 16: 09 New
      +3
      Quote: Yankuz
      God forbid, what will happen in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, where all people will run? To Russia of course! Where else? After all, Russia - at all times it was like an elder brother to our neighbors, and now we must behave with dignity and as an older brother in relation to the younger ones, and vice versa - the younger in relation to the older one.

      If you don’t bring the Lord to happen, pray to God that a leader like Assad is in power. And as for the older and younger brothers, I’ll say this, the Soviet people are already physically ending, but those who even hooked on the USSR’s childhood received a very good vaccination from the nations that were born, quite intelligibly explained to what address the older brother should go and for how long. Yes and a generation has grown up in them, so that fraternities, if they pour out from troubles en masse into Russia, they certainly won’t be there. They didn’t grow up either pioneering children who were missed through a real war. You can’t return the time, but there’s no unifying idea. Cutting the dough is not an idea.
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 36 New
      +2
      set of letters. and you’re such an elder brother to me as a pomegranate is from you. for a long time washed from the mud from a puddle, "brother"? and you don’t want to remember the Russians evacuated to Kazakhstan during the war?
  • GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO April 13 2013 14: 59 New
    -4
    Quote: concept1
    By 2020, everything will fall into place — the Plesetsk Military Cosmodrome. East- civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. And Baikonur is a commercial spaceport.

    This is Kazakh fantasy and no more, after the Vostochny Cosmodrome is put into operation, all specialists will leave Baikonur, take everything that can be taken out of the equipment to Russia and forget about it. And without Russia or another space power with powerful scientific potentials, Kazakhstan cannot pull this colossus, who knows, maybe China will rent it.
    1. Alibekulu
      April 14 2013 09: 41 New
      +4
      Quote: GOLUBENKO
      This is Kazakh fantasy


      What about Kazakh fantasy
      I will try to consider the issue of Baikonur in a slightly different plane:
      Baikonur as an image project..Baikonur, like POINT
      It so happened that he ended up in Kazakhstan and it’s necessary to do something about it .. it wouldn’t be him, it would be easier .. And so what.
      In Kazakhstan, very little of what is known to the whole world is like that of the Mongols Chingizkhan, the Uzbeks Timur, the Indians have the Taj Mahal (a lot of things with them) ... So Baikonur is a BRAND (brand) good known to a little bit of an educated person in the world ...
      And the Kazakhs and their leadership, whether they want it or not, will do everything in order not to lose Baikonur in its mission .. So the loss of it carries great REPUTATION RISKS..
      And this will not allow Kazakhstan in any case .. And K. will invest in Baikonur for the most tomatoes .. belay
      But as grit: "Ponty is more expensive than money" bully
      1. avt
        avt April 14 2013 12: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Baikonur as an image project .. Baikonur as PONTS
        It so happened that he ended up in Kazakhstan and had to do something about it .. wouldn’t be him, it would be easier .. And so what ...

        I agree. Baikonur is really neither Russian nor Kazakh, it is Soviet. Well, for today, what for Russia, what for Kazakhstan it has become a suitcase without a handle, but Russia has already decided what to do and no matter how they say, that the statement of GDP is actually a usual information attack in order to spread fear and confusion in the ranks of the "opponent." "He was not seen in such things, anyone can be sure by raising the history of the North and South Stream.
        Quote: Alibekulu
        So the loss of it carries great REPUTATIONAL RISKS ..
        And Kazakhstan cannot allow this in any case .. And Mr. will invest in the most tomatoes in Baikonur.

        Well, and this is really without us, by the way, and another reason why Russia does not make sense to invest in Baikonur wisely or heartily, all the same, money and energy will be wasted. So let the Swedes and Israelis throw the show off, the French can be lucky. Nothing personal, only business.
        1. Alibekulu
          April 14 2013 13: 56 New
          +3
          In general, the current situation with Baikonyr, I have analogies with the situation when Kazakhstan gained sovereignty ... (although in my opinion, Kazakhstan was simply thrown out of the USSR, and then the “ruble zone.” Remember, Nazarbayev until the last time made efforts to preserve the Union. Not I am going to sing his praises (he had in this case, and clearly personal ambitions). But, not everything was in his power. By the way, he was called to Belovezhskaya Pushcha: "Will you be the fourth ??!"
          Then, our leadership in one place think specifically laughing
          But, nothing - crawled out, climbed out ..
          I remember the phrase Nazarbayev, already in well-fed 2000-e: "Remember 96-th !!!"
          Then Kazakhstan, apparently, reached the extreme point of the fall ... beyond which, perhaps, there was anything (Postapocalypse stop ) Salaries were not paid, salaries were not given out .. well, a lot more .. I don’t tell you .. I think they caught it.
          I remember at the same time Nazarbayev made a raid around the world asking for help (actually with an outstretched hand). At that moment, much of which was surrendered ..

          Why am I doing all this ?! And the fact that Kazakhstan and its leadership have experience ..
          The experience of survival in critical conditions, in comparison with which, the current situation with Baikonir and not even a problem .. good
          Respectfully.. hi
          1. avt
            avt April 14 2013 15: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Alibekulu
            (although in my opinion Kazakhstan was simply thrown out of the USSR, and then the “ruble zone.” Remember, Nazarbayev made efforts to preserve the Union until the last. I’m not going to sing praises to him (he had, in this case, clearly personal ambitions).

            Not quite so, the Ogarev agreements are not the preservation of the USSR, they simply turned out to be Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shushkevich and humpbacked. They didn’t hear the fourth, and honestly, they don’t care. Well, what will survive .... request , but who argues. The question is something else, maybe try to live and not survive?
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas April 13 2013 15: 31 New
    +4
    Quote: GOLUBENKO
    Quote: concept1
    By 2020, everything will fall into place — the Plesetsk Military Cosmodrome. East- civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. And Baikonur is a commercial spaceport.

    This is Kazakh fantasy and no more, after the Vostochny Cosmodrome is put into operation, all specialists will leave Baikonur, take everything that can be taken out of the equipment to Russia and forget about it. And without Russia or another space power with powerful scientific potentials, Kazakhstan cannot pull this colossus, who knows, maybe China will rent it.

    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).
  • GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO April 13 2013 18: 15 New
    -1
    Quote: Aeneas
    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).

    A lot of bukf, little meaning. You understand everything perfectly, but you have done the same. E..la brain Ukraine with gas transit to Europe, stole, and so on. They got the “North” and “South” flow, and instead of Yanukovych Lukashenko collects cream for transit and the population has gas at a good price. And you are looking for gas in shale. So with Baikonur, Kazakhstan, the brain makes 20 years of Russia with its Wishlist, there were articles on this topic on the "VO". And the scribe creeps up to the authorities of Kazakhstan in the form of the Vostochny spaceport and with its opening the ticket office will be closed.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt April 13 2013 18: 36 New
    +7
    Sooner or later, problems of a political, economic, technological, environmental and other nature, around objects outside their own country, will arise.

    Unfortunately, that Soviet integration will no longer be. Exchange in kind is not acceptable, and spraying defense means and technologies in territories with an unpredictable future is not only flawed, but also dangerous! Russia has so far one adequate partner - Belarus.

    In your home, everything will be better kept and always at hand!
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 18: 46 New
    0
    Something like this: By 2020, Russia will reduce the number of launches from Baikonur by almost 6 times. The first launch from a new Russian cosmodrome will be made in 2015. Until 2015, 64 percent of space launches are projected to be launched from Baikonur, 30 percent from Plesetsk and six percent from other Russian cosmodromes.

    Since 2018, manned ships will start from the East. After 2020, about 45 percent of launches will be carried out from Vostok, 44 percent from Plesetsk and 11 percent from Baikonur.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/russia/k-2020-godu-rossiya-sokratit-kolichestvo-zapuskov-s-

    baykonura-pochti-v-6-raz-182745 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz
  • Vtel
    Vtel April 13 2013 19: 43 New
    +2
    Your spaceport is great! It’s just gnawing, faq so close to the Border.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 12: 56 New
      +6
      Yes, are you worried? China is the best friend of Russia and a reliable ally! Build near their border without fear. Are Kazakhs better than the Chinese? Of course not. You must be extremely careful with the Kazakhs. They constantly betrayed Russia and, in general, their faces are non-Russian. And the proximity of the Chinese border is on the contrary a security factor for the Russian spaceport. China will never do anything to the detriment of the fraternal Russian people. And it will be necessary - China itself will send troops to protect the Russian spaceport from the Kazakhs and other neighbors unfriendly to Russia.
  • Aeneas
    Aeneas April 13 2013 19: 48 New
    +4
    Quote: GOLUBENKO
    Quote: Aeneas
    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).

    A lot of bukf, little meaning. You understand everything perfectly, but you have done the same. E..la brain Ukraine with gas transit to Europe, stole, and so on. They got the “North” and “South” flow, and instead of Yanukovych Lukashenko collects cream for transit and the population has gas at a good price. And you are looking for gas in shale. So with Baikonur, Kazakhstan, the brain makes 20 years of Russia with its Wishlist, there were articles on this topic on the "VO". And the scribe creeps up to the authorities of Kazakhstan in the form of the Vostochny spaceport and with its opening the ticket office will be closed.
    bukaf, slippers, not a lot, but everyone judges about the meaning from his bell tower. Of course, the technique you have used to translate a discussion to challenge the main topic is well known. But regarding the “Ukrainian theme” it is more logical to cite the example of the An-70, a truly Soviet technologically breakthrough project in the aircraft industry, which could become an example of integration, but becomes an example of disintegration and the victory of mercantile private property interests over national ones. And the gas pipe and transit is an outright fetish. Pipeline transit revenues had only a very insignificant share of Ukraine’s foreign economic income, gas for Ukrainians is cheaper than for Russians, Gazprom receives extra profits for the time being, Gazprom contractors receive extra profits from the construction of new transit capacities, Ukrainian pro-government oligarchs control the pipe, and with it and resource-intensive budget-forming enterprises of Ukraine, the Germans earn on the resale of gas, Ukrainian nationalists are glad to curtail their cooperation with Russia, Russian hurray patriots swear by the status of a raw material superpower and the fact of “punishment” of the obstinate haahlof, the State Department is satisfied with the Russian-Ukrainian demarches, in general everyone is happy very funny. But this is gas, which Qatar can produce with Turkmenistan, and Bulgaria can also “transit” with Lithuania. And firing rockets into space is already a completely different status. This was understood by Stalin with Khrushchov, and Kim Jong-un with Nazarbayev understood. And in space you won’t get super profits and cache. this is a costly, troublesome, not profitable, very competitive business. Here the interest is strategic-state and not private-ownership. And it would be nice to have a national project of the post-Union countries in Baikonur, and we get the private benefits of contractors from building the infrastructure of the new cosmodrome ... Here are really bukaf more. recourse
    1. Alibekulu
      April 13 2013 21: 08 New
      +4
      Aeneas, I want to say to you - Great thanks for you (I hope I wrote correctly repeat )
      for the most competent and detailed comments on this topic .. I wanted to write everything, but with knowledge .. problems winked
      From myself I will add that in Kazakhstan one of the main problems is the preservation of the level of the scientific and technical layer of thinking people ... of the reserve that remained from the USSR. One of the reasons that KN is keen to participate in high-tech (and simply technological) events is the desire that Kazakh (or Kazakh) engineers and workers work on them ... In order for us to form and have a layer of so-called . "gray-collar" .. ("white .." nowhere to go negative in humanities all the rules ..). In K-not with money, I won’t open America to anyone, as they say - MORE THAN .. And it’s very important, thanks to them, to build up “muscles” in the scientific and technical sphere .. There are a lot of them now, due to the fact that they don’t find applications for their knowledge - goes into other areas ....
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 13 2013 22: 43 New
        +7
        in Ukrainian they say "dyakoy" or "thank you", but "save" is more rare in "competent" Ukrainian, but quite often in "folk" ... She always please wink It seems to me that in my comments I write about obvious things, although sometimes I get a bunch of “minuses”. But these "minuses" certainly do not affect the semantic content of my posts, and my personal views on the cooperation of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other countries of the post of the Union ... Although, as it seems to me, there are fewer thoughtful comments on this resource, and more urya-patriotic chants in search of virtual stars, I hope in the army these "marshals" have served at least a year repeat
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny April 13 2013 22: 51 New
          +4
          - Rahmat!
          - What?
          - "Thank you" in Uzbek.
          - Please.
          - Do not understand.
          - "Please" in Ukrainian))))

          ("Only old people go into battle")
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 13 2013 19: 56 New
    0
    It is a pity of course, but parting with Baikonur is inevitable. If the Kazakh elite does not give up dreams of specifically getting into the dough from the operation of the cosmodrome and does not understand that it is more profitable than getting rent for the land near Baikonur and the environment within reasonable limits and the very presence of Russia is the most that it can count on.
  • romb
    romb April 13 2013 20: 16 New
    +1
    I will not reveal a big secret if I say that, in general, they expected such a reaction from the Russian leadership. However, it seems to me that this was not news and not only for Kazakhstan.
    Not for nothing since the time of Kuchma, Ukraine and Kazakhstan have tried to build bridges in the field of joint implementation of space programs. Most likely, now this process will only accelerate.
    Separate agreements have already been signed with France. There are several packages of mutual proposals on the way that will touch upon issues not only of satellite assembly and training of national personnel, but also several other aspects.
    In addition to these countries, there are Israel and Sweden, which since the mid-XNUMXs have been trying to push Kazakhstan to closer cooperation in the interests of national aerospace programs.
    According to Vostochny, you can declare anything - people pick it up, but time will tell how it will actually be.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 April 13 2013 20: 45 New
      0
      romb You can ally with France, Israel, even with a damn bald
      but without Russia, Kazakhstan has nothing to give it is 100% !!!
      1. romb
        romb April 13 2013 20: 59 New
        +1
        If it does not, can you explain the nature of such a categorical statement?
        In general, no one says that cooperation with Russia will be curtailed.
        1. Concept1
          Concept1 April 13 2013 21: 22 New
          -1
          I am sure that after 2020 Russia will not leave Baikonur
          And to the account the nature of such a categorical statement If even China, the USA, France, and South Korea use Russian knowledge, technologies, and engines in their space programs, how will Kazakhstan do without Russia ??? !!! after all, the same Zenith is a joint brainchild of Russia and Ukraine. About Israel and Sweden in general there is no question.
          In short, one ambition!
          1. romb
            romb April 13 2013 21: 39 New
            +1
            I am sure that after 2020 Russia will not leave Baikonur

            In this part, I completely agree with your opinion.
            Even if China, the USA, France, South Korea use Russian knowledge, technologies and engines in their space programs, how Kazakhstan will manage without Russia

            More precisely will be Soviet knowledge. So, Ukraine has similar experience and technologies in terms of volume and quality. They certainly can not be compared with the well-developed system approach that the Russians have, but time does not stand still, the relevant experience is already being gained in a joint project with Brazil.
            Plus, Israel and Sweden are also clearly not new to these issues. For example, Israel has a problem with the general launch path of the launch vehicle, and the air base is not particularly suitable for this.
            If we talk about satellites, then it generally turns out that Russia is clearly not a leader in most cases. Products from Israel and France are still preferable.
            1. Concept1
              Concept1 April 13 2013 21: 58 New
              -1
              romb is all temporary difficulties and I assure you that the whole planet will soon watch the success of Russia, opening its mouth in surprise, and first of all it will be manned programs, deep space exploration and the line of so-called "partners" will be long !!!
              Already in 2015, a flight to the moon is planned! The plans for the extraction of lunar soil to journalists told the head of the space agency Vladimir Popovkin. “We are going to launch the Luna-Globe spacecraft at the end of 2015 and the beginning of 2016 and work out the landing in the polar region of the Moon. Then there will be a large program “Luna-Resource”, consisting of several stages. There will be studies from the lunar orbit, there will be a large scientific complex, which we must "lay down." There will be moon rovers. A device is being developed for taking soil, not from the surface, but from a two-meter depth, ”the head of Roskomos quoted the media as saying.
              And believe me, there will be many offers to help research this soil! Moreover, from the most developed countries ...
    2. katran666
      katran666 April 13 2013 20: 54 New
      +2
      what to say - success, the wind in your back
      1. romb
        romb April 13 2013 21: 02 New
        +3
        Rakhmet!)))
        You the same on the "East"! wink
        1. Concept1
          Concept1 April 13 2013 21: 39 New
          +2
          In the east, they work in two shifts! All with the latest technology. All classes of next-generation rockets are environmentally friendly !!! wink
          By the time the “Vostochny” is finally built, it will become one of the 4 largest cosmodromes on the planet and become the most modern of them. This will be not only a launch complex for launching heavy carriers, but also 2 fuel plants: hydrogen and nitrogen. In total, the cosmodrome will include about 1 different structures. In addition, at a demonstration by Roscosmos of a modern star city, so far, for 600 inhabitants, judging by the images presented, the cosmodrome workers will have to live in ultra-modern housing among flowering gardens.
          1. romb
            romb April 13 2013 21: 43 New
            0
            To be honest, I am not against the "East", let it develop. Moreover, a country like Russia should have full independence in such matters. It’s just not clear a little different, namely, how much he will be able to answer those statements that have already been trumpeted in all the media.
            1. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe April 13 2013 22: 17 New
              0
              Quote: romb
              how much he will be able to answer those statements that have already been trumpeted in all the media.

              At 100%, otherwise why should Kazakhstan annoy?
              1. romb
                romb April 13 2013 22: 28 New
                +1
                I would not rule out the possibility that the statement of GDP is in fact a usual information attack with the goal of spreading fear and confusion in the ranks of the “opponent”.
                In any case, let's see what happens.
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 20: 40 New
    0
    Rogozin: the creation of the Ministry of Space will be discussed in the government until the end of April
    The Ministry of Space Development is really cool !!!
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek April 13 2013 20: 52 New
    +4
    Hesitated to build your East and do whatever you want, and Baikonur close enough land to clog up. Our dough wanted, and yours that they didn’t steal, even managed to give the site for rent. Your grandmothers weren’t divided and arranged to be kicked out here. You say technologies, yours are all without You’ve already been sold in 90. It’s just that the Kazakhs who saw the rockets want to launch and why not, it’s possible to North Korea but we’re worse. You know very well that money is being stolen in space, so all this is complete. Money and without Baikonur enough, because of him there is one swearing, so close and deal with k ontsom.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 13 2013 20: 59 New
      +2
      The logic of the Russians is simple. Let the launch pads rot further, if only Kazakhs are not allowed into space. And ideally, Roscosmos wants to close Baikonur and hold on to the agreement on a 50-year lease, so that later it will return to the Kazakhs a real space overgrown with weeds.
      And until all launches have been transferred to their Russian spaceport, Roscosmos will hysteria, scream all kinds of garbage, accuse the Kazakhs of greed (although the Kazakhs, on the contrary, are talking about renting the Russians from the Russians and offering their investments in the spaceport), if only the brains are ordinary Russians powder. And the Russians do not delve into the topic. The Russian media (at the suggestion of Roscosmos) told them “Kazakhs are bad, they want to kick us out!” And they are happy to succumb to hysteria. Meanwhile, Roskosmos will, at this time, be in a ludicrous manner in the Serdyukov way through the construction of a new spaceport. It’s not for you to steal candy wrappers, here serious uncle gesheft do.
  • Semurg
    Semurg April 13 2013 21: 06 New
    +4
    Probably all the supporters of allied relations in Russia have a rest, everyone who writes under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur, and the complete removal of everything that can be taken away. And Kazakhs are offered to graze sheep. Supporters of the union in Kazakhstan read these comments, and how do you like such an alliance? Will you continue for this alliance? Is Russia ready to share technology with South Korea, but not with Kazakhstan (Koreans may have a different color bucks) Will you continue to write that Russia is our closest ally? It may be at a high political level, but at the level of the layman the situation is awful. At the level of the layman, Russia does not need allies, but provinces in place of all the CIS countries are needed, but does the inhabitants of these countries need this? This is the main contradiction of today. And until this issue is resolved, there will be tension between us. And politicians will not last forever, but with the change of politicians, courses will change, and voters have the right to choose politicians.
    1. avt
      avt April 13 2013 22: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Semurg
      Probably all the supporters of allied relations in Russia have a rest, everyone who writes under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur, and the complete removal of everything that can be taken away.

      Business, nothing personal. The bestial grin of capitalism. Well, and export ... what's the point? Only on recyclable materials, this is what they did without us. Well, when in Plesetsk in the USSR, the seven start collapsed, well, yes, they threw it over, so there it was urgent to restore it, only they worked from the first. And now request and Eastern build and Turatam modernize? Yes, not that money, people can not be found. Not Soviet times, when they sat at work for days. According to Senka, the hat, such a space program as it was no longer, is clear Eastern pepper will not surpass Tyura. At the expense of the Allies, their two are the army and navy. About the provinces request the issue has also been resolved with the proclamation of sovereignty by the former Soviet republics, I don’t see any problems, nobody forcibly pulls anywhere, especially to Russia. Freedom to save paradise. The USSR died, and with it the community — the Soviet people, everything, capitalism.
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe April 13 2013 22: 36 New
      -2
      Quote: Semurg
      .A politicians do not last forever, but with the change of politicians, courses change, and voters have the right to choose politicians.

      Well done! I wrote everything correctly. It is from this that Russia insures itself, if under Nazarbayev Russia is pulled and blackmailed all the time, with its cosmodrome on foreign territory, what will happen when the “new” generation of politicians arrives? And tell me, why should Russia have such a haemorrhage in the future? Instead of developing quietly, we will have to think about how we will agree with the Kazakhs on the account of flying quietly from Baikonur.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 13 2013 22: 50 New
        +2
        "your" spaceport ??? we have nothing "yours". and no one is blackmailing you. we just don’t want to have ruins instead of the city and the spaceport. and it’s about this.
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          "your" spaceport ??? we have nothing "yours".

          Yes ours. Built by Russian hands and minds. Try to build yourself better and more modern for your money and your brains and then take for its use in full measure and with a clear conscience.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 21 New
            +4
            Russian hands and minds? In this case, what the hell is my grandfather, front-line soldier Temirzhan Syrlybaev rebuilt the Moscow Region in 1946-1948? Where is my share of Moscow real estate? And at the same time, I propose to calculate the amount of Russia's debt to Kazakhstan for the restoration of the European part of the USSR, in which the Kazakh SSR took part both in material and in labor resources. The Kazakhstanis took entire regions of the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR, and the BSSR under their patronage, sending livestock, equipment, food, clothing, construction crews, and money there. Have you ever heard from Kazakhs demands to get back yours? And how do you pay for Kazakh lead, from which 9 out of 10 bullets were cast during WWII? And for oil, gas, meat, grain, uranium, metals? Let me remind you that the Kazakh SSR was a donor republic of the Union budget, and gave much more than it received. Let's start finding out who owes whom to whom? And if you consider that both my grandfathers shed blood on Russian and Ukrainian soil, is there any material compensation from the Russian Federation? We will solve these issues, and after that take the whole Baikonur.
        2. ultra
          ultra April 14 2013 00: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          we just don’t want to have ruins instead of the city and the spaceport. and it’s about this.
          Well, do not have ruins! Build, upgrade, run! Who's stopping you? hi
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 41 New
            +1
            You really do not understand the essence of the Kazakh-Russian talk about Baikonur? Kazakhs also offer "build, modernize, run." But Roscosmos simply does not want to. In the early 2000s, they pushed the idea of ​​building a new cosmodrome, they received such funding - what for them Baikonur, from whom you can’t especially tell money? On Baikonur, Russia has already scored soooo. The city and the spaceport are squeezed like a lemon. The Kazakhs do not want the city and the spaceport to go dead, and therefore they offer Russia to begin joint fruitful cooperation there. We have money, we have a desire not to ruin Baikonur. But Roskosmos has other plans. It is beneficial for them to ruin Baikonur. But at the same time, Roscosmos flatly does not want to let the Kazakhs in to the city and the cosmodrome before the expiration of the 50-year rental period. What joy do we have from a dead city when the lease expires? The agreement was signed when the Kazakhs did not suspect that the Russians were going to transfer launches to their territory, and thought that Baikonur would live all these years. But now it’s completely clear that Baikonur is a kaput. And this worries the Kazakhs in earnest.
    3. ultra
      ultra April 14 2013 00: 14 New
      0
      Quote: Semurg
      , all who write under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur

      Baikonur is stomping on the spot in the space race and the East is a step forward! hi
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek April 13 2013 22: 05 New
    +2
    What for is such an alliance where you don’t want to give the 60 technology for money. To the Koreans, the Chinese please, and why let the Kazakhs rejoice that they built Baikonur. According to him, a step to the right, a step to the left, a jump on the spot is a provocation.
    1. katran666
      katran666 April 13 2013 22: 16 New
      -2
      buy elsewhere, if you are smart ... the union does not mean growing a competitor for yourself, look for fools elsewhere
    2. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe April 13 2013 22: 51 New
      -2
      Quote: Kazbek
      .Koreans, Chinese please, and why let the Kazakhs rejoice that they built Baikonur. According to them, a step to the right, a step to the left, a shot, a provocation jump on the spot.

      By the fact that in their territories there is no cosmodrome from which our rockets fly. And they won’t be able to blackmail us with this all the time, then it’s possible, then it’s not possible, then three missiles in May, then one, and you wouldn’t have gone such allies - goat’s partners into a crack. It will be calmer for us to cooperate with your spaceport and you will know where to stand straight and where to stoop.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 13 2013 22: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        and you will know where to stand straight, and where to bend down.

        blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?
        1. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?

          It’s you who you can’t figure out with your suit, and you behave this way, either as slaves or as prostitutes.
          1. romb
            romb April 13 2013 23: 15 New
            +2
            Dear, filter the bazaar.
            1. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: romb
              Dear, filter the bazaar.

              You’re filtering it, and don’t poke the shepherd for me, I didn’t pass the sheep with you.
              1. romb
                romb April 13 2013 23: 22 New
                0
                Well, what are you fool wound up?
                Of course, you didn’t pass with me, because it’s me, people like you, in my own life I graze, but in the stall when I drive you.)))))
                1. cherkas.oe
                  cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: romb
                  , I’ll pass myself through life, but to the stall when I drive.

                  It’s you who are probably driving the gophers across the steppe “nuker”, but you won’t be able to cope with people like you in your ass.
                  1. romb
                    romb April 13 2013 23: 34 New
                    0
                    Come on, hang me!
                    I somehow do not care what kind of "animal" you want to be a gopher, be it.
                    Although, you remembered about the ass, it means nothing like a worm?))))
                    Well what can I say - it really looks like!
                    1. cherkas.oe
                      cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 45 New
                      -5
                      Quote: romb
                      you remembered about the ass

                      So you think with it, here you’re carrying all kinds of crap, try connecting your head, or have you got worms there ?, chase them, drink some green stuff, and go inscription, special for sheep gophers and worms.
                      1. romb
                        romb April 13 2013 23: 50 New
                        +5
                        You first read what you wrote about the whole nation, and only then become in your working position.
                      2. cherkas.oe
                        cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 59 New
                        -4
                        Quote: romb
                        You first read what you wrote about the whole nation, and only then become in your working position.

                        This is where I wrote about the whole nation ?, it’s not your delusions of grandeur that happened to happen that you confuse yourself with a whole nation. Yes, and it seems to me that you personally have nothing to do with the titular nation of Kazakhstan, and by the way, (not “working”, but cutting it through “u”) if anything, please contact, I will help with spelling .
                      3. romb
                        romb April 14 2013 00: 05 New
                        +4
                        You cannot understand your suit there, pabout this and behave, like slaves, then like prostitutes.

                        Do you poke your eyes or see for yourself?
                        If anything, please contact, I will help with spelling.

                        I’ll definitely turn, I’ll just wait until you yourself become more literate, so right away ...
                        not
                        by the way
                        and by the way))))
                      4. cherkas.oe
                        cherkas.oe April 14 2013 00: 24 New
                        -3
                        Quote: cherkas.oe
                        It’s you who you can’t figure out with your suit, and you behave this way, either as slaves or as prostitutes.

                        This is me to you personally, after
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?

                        And thanks for the help, you get smarter before your eyes
                      5. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny April 14 2013 03: 53 New
                        +3
                        Are you talking about the first part of my message? if so, the hint was born of itself when you started fantasizing about bent postures.
                        and if about the second part, then come to KZ, and try to "joke" like that with a Kazakh. quickly you will find yourself in intensive care.

                        follow the bazaar. the steppe slaves, gays and prostitutes were not. about "poses" and "prostitutes" joke with their buddies. I hope they do not run with rainbow flags? otherwise the style of your speech is a concern.
                      6. romb
                        romb April 14 2013 11: 17 New
                        +4
                        This is me to you personally, after

                        Well, this is clearly not serious, somehow too childish. As I understand it, you really have problems not only with your eyesight, but you also don’t especially sparkle with logic. Remember when you wrote your comment: “this is why you behave like servants or prostitutes,” and when I pointed it out to you. Time interval - heard such words?
                        And thanks for the help, you get smarter before your eyes

                        I understand, what to do when you merged, it remains to clutch for something insignificant, meaning nothing. laughing
                        On this and finish!
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 13 2013 23: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    and where to stoop.

    But to bend down, it’s not necessary to substitute an ass, it’s so that you can’t break a bad head about something.
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 22: 57 New
    -1
    And here's another of the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. As the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin said, the technical design of the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation has already been completed. The design engineering and the creation of experimental facilities will begin soon. But it will be a fundamentally new ship, ready for interplanetary flight. "
    1. Aeneas
      Aeneas April 13 2013 23: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: concept1
      And here's another of the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. As the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin said, the technical design of the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation has already been completed. The design engineering and the creation of experimental facilities will begin soon. But it will be a fundamentally new ship, ready for interplanetary flight. "

      do not read tips before dinner ... sorry, Popovkin's statements. these stories with clippers, Russia and a bunch of projections have been filling the space since the mid-90s. Work and show the result. That seems to me. that there were no reports in the media before Gagarin’s flight or the launch of Buran, that tomorrow a trade union sanatorium for production workers would open on the moon.
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 April 13 2013 23: 20 New
        +7
        It is difficult to realize that Russia can do everything without the “fraternal republics”. But the facts persistently confirm this. The mace flew, Pak-fa too, Boreas, Yaseni, Ka-52 in the series, GLONAS in full force and the cosmodrome will be built and the new ship will be made not for long, you will see everything for yourself !!! smile
        1. katran666
          katran666 April 14 2013 01: 14 New
          +1
          it will be so, it’s just that some independent, proud and fraternal ones can’t get the illusion that without them nothing can be done ... this can only be treated by therapeutic fasting ...
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 23: 09 New
    +2
    Taking into account possible interplanetary flights, the first to create a "compact nuclear power plant with a capacity of 1000 kW with electric engines in Russia" is being created for the first time. “This is a megawatt-class installation. Its creation opens up completely different possibilities in space, allows you to take a fresh look at the use of geostationary orbits,” the head of Roscosmos explained. “For comparison: the ISS solar panels generate about 100 kW. But the station is in near-Earth orbit. And when flying, for example, to Mars, it would take an area of ​​solar panels comparable to a dozen football fields!”
    “It’s possible,” said Popovkin, “that the engines will run on pure xenon, heated to a very high temperature. And this will make it possible to obtain specific thrust 20 times greater than on chemical engines. For us, the most important thing is how to use the module with such energy: as part of interorbital tugs, multifunctional platforms and devices for interplanetary missions. There are no world analogues. "
    However, there are two problems: “what kind of reactor should it be and what kind of cooling system. A unique cooling system is the drip method, which we theoretically confirmed on Earth. I think next year we will conduct an experiment on the ISS, we will show that it is also in outer space real. "
    “We plan to make a prototype of a nuclear power plant of about 250 kW by 2018,” Popovkin promised.
    1. Alibekulu
      April 14 2013 10: 24 New
      +1
      concept1 your information reminds me of our "HABAR" wink
      and is associated with Ostap Bender New Vasyuki soldier
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 April 14 2013 10: 57 New
        0
        So what do you mean by that? that it’s all a lie that Russia won’t do anything by itself; it won’t build a spaceport, missiles will not fly, etc. so what? ... And that's all I myself came up with ...
        Astapa made such nonsense! It’s even hard for me to comment on your post!
        Well, what else to say is not long left myself you will see everything!
        1. Alibekulu
          April 14 2013 12: 59 New
          +1
          Concept1
          So what do you mean by that? that it’s all a lie that Russia doesn’t do what it doesn’t do; it’s not building the cosmodrome, it’s not going to fly missiles, etc. so what? ...

          Of course, the spaceport will be built and the rockets will fly about:
          And here's another of the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. As the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin said, the technical design of the Energia Rocket and Space Corporation has already been completed. The design engineering and the creation of experimental facilities will begin soon. But it will be a fundamentally new ship, ready for interplanetary flight. "


          Popovkin Ostap-Suleiman-Berta-Maria Bender-Bey .. probably the grandson of a Turkish citizen.

          And about Popovkin, the Ascetic (he is in the subject) has already given a detailed unattractive characteristic. In his kammenta smear to find ..
          And about "fundamentally new ship, ready for interplanetary flight. He is clearly at Ostap slyamzil .. laughing
          Best regards hi
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 13 2013 23: 35 New
    0
    [media=http://sdelanounas.ru/i/b/m/bmV3cy5tYWlsLnJ1L3ByZXY2NzB4NDAwL3BpYy8xYi81Z
    C9pbWFnZTEyNjE3MV84MGU3OTM4M2EyNDY0MWJlMjhjYzQxYTY4ZDBlYWJmYy5qcGc_X19pZD0zMTk3N
    w ==. jpg]
  • Kazbek
    Kazbek April 14 2013 11: 45 New
    +3
    Do you think Kazakhstan will not achieve anything without you, you are deeply mistaken, the light didn’t converge on Russia. Our government has proved its worth in the 90, and now even more so when there is so much money. In the West, the crisis and they will sell technology with pleasure, and you have already done so much Kaz money. If that Ukrainians help them with the same technology.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 April 14 2013 13: 10 New
      -1
      Ukrainians will help them with the same technology.
      You probably mean YUZHMASH and ZENIT rocket launcher then read- The first stage of the Zenith equipped with the RD-171 oxygen-kerosene engine manufactured by NPO Energomash named after academician V.P. Glushko is a Russian company, a leading developer and manufacturer of liquid rocket engines. It was founded in 1929. The main products are engines for the lower stages of missiles. The company is located in the city of Khimki, Moscow region.
      Energomash is the developer of the world's most powerful liquid propellant rocket engine RD-170 / RD-171, exported including in USA. The number of employees is about 5500 employees.
      In January 1996, NGOs, having won the tender for the development of the engine for the modernized Atlas launch vehicle by Lockheed Martin, an American company, began developing the RD-180 engine. The RD-180 engine is considered one of the best engines in the world in terms of its parameters, and one of the most reliable [1].
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 14 2013 13: 27 New
        +2
        How much is Energomash? We will buy 50-100 people of the main engineers. And we’ll not spend that kind of money to save the city and the spaceport from death. We spend more on the Astana-Almaty asphalt road. Who will refuse in Energomash from a normal salary of several thousand dollars? http://ttolk.ru/?p=8302 - here is an article on how much they are paid in Russia. It is not difficult for Kazakhs to make an offer that will be difficult to refuse. And at the same time we will prepare our specialists. "Nothing personal just business". And for the bought spices, we will present apartments in our new capital and in Baikonur, and put them on a long-term contract. Will a lot of energy workers refuse?
        1. Concept1
          Concept1 April 14 2013 13: 56 New
          -2
          Marek Rozny How much is Energomash? We will buy 50-100 people of the main engineers. Well this is No comment!
          But seriously, everything will be accurate to the turnover. There was a statement by Ragozin about creating conditions for the relocation of Russian specialists to Russia since there are not enough personnel in the defense industry.
          And so, lastly, the budget of Roscosmos until 2020 1.500.000.000.000 trillion rubles, or almost $ 60.000.000.000 billion
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 14 2013 14: 26 New
            +1
            See how much they get in real life. There are enough articles on this topic in the internet. They do not even get earned every month sometimes.
            Rogozin says a lot of things. Even more than necessary. He seems to be saying the right thing, but he is so far from reality that you begin to doubt his ability to perceive reality.
            And the budget of Roscosmos will be mainly spent on moving and arranging the spaceport, and other matters, rather than on salaries. There, salaries for top executives of the company are huge, including "golden parachutes" - benefits in case of dismissal of top managers.
        2. Concept1
          Concept1 April 14 2013 14: 22 New
          -1
          Not all the same, I didn’t imagine the outcome of the specialists from Moscow to Baikonur! Well, if in a place with the whole of Kazakhstan he joins Russia, and then he again draws people by force to drag them here as during a distribution union when they took away passports from people who did not want to go here! But then they gave apartments, and the whole situation was incomparably better !!!
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 14 2013 14: 31 New
            +1
            Fantasies are not the enticement of specialists in the KZ, but your thoughts that the Kazakhs will become part of Russia. Do not confuse sour with salty. Your desires are clear.
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 11: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Kazbek
    Do you think Kazakhstan will not achieve anything without you, you are deeply mistaken, the light didn’t converge on Russia. Our government has proved its worth in the 90, and now even more so when there is so much money. In the West, the crisis and they will sell technology with pleasure, and you have already done so much Kaz money. If that Ukrainians help them with the same technology.


    Well, GOOD LUCK, and we'll see ... how will you adapt Western technologies to Soviet standards and alas, YuzhMash will help you a little in this, they have enough of their problems ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 12: 45 New
      0
      Kazakhs are a very stubborn nation. And the main goals that face the nation achieve 100%. It will be necessary - we will create on the basis of the half-dead Baikonur the best spaceport in the world. Without Russia. Only with such an attitude of Russia towards us, do not start talking about "alliance" when you need something. Do you want a visa regime? No problem. Want to build a fortified border with Kazakhstan - for God's sake. If you want to receive our oil, gas and uranium at world prices and in order of priority - please. You don’t want Kazakhs to speak Russian - it’s not a problem at all, “I don’t understand yours, speak Kazakh”. Do you think that it is necessary to support Slavic organizations in the KZ? We will finance Muslim and Turkic organizations in Russia and inspire them with our vision of politics. With all the consequences.
      Etc. Nothing personal just business. It’s just that your situation is unstable, and it’s still not known who will be there after Putin. And in general, "stop feeding the Russians." By the way, we need to find out from Warsaw what are the conditions for joining NATO ...

      Do you want such a scenario? With such an abominable and arrogant attitude of Russians to Kazakhs, such an outcome is quite likely. And I write this, a Eurasian who considers himself a staunch supporter of integration with the post-Soviet world and Russia in particular. Even I already have serious questions - do we need an ally who behaves on the principle of "nothing personal, only business." We’ll arrange a “business”. We are the steppes. Fuck then a belated apology will help. Instead of the Eurasian Union, we will build the Turkic Kaganate. Nothing personal just business. What a hello - such an answer. Rush with your moronic phrase that Russia has only two allies - the army and navy, if you really consider it optional to be an ally towards someone. Then start building military bases in Omsk and Chelyabinsk. You will receive a new border with a cool neighbor who is in another military-political bloc with your own attitude, and not the Eurasian Union. China, the EU and the USA will gladly assist the Eurasian Turks in the formation of the Turanian Union, as well as in maintaining it in “form”. Nothing personal. Only business. We will begin to take care of our national interests, just like you. Why do you need allies? You have an army and a navy, along with roads and fools.
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 13: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Even I already have serious questions - do we need an ally who behaves on the principle of "nothing personal, only business"


    Well, our concept is understandable, but what do you want?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 13: 10 New
      0
      My desires are no different from the desires of the other Kazakhs and our government - to conduct normal JOINT mutually beneficial work in Baikonur so that this complex does not die. Does this look like blackmail or attacks against Russia?
      1. Concept1
        Concept1 April 14 2013 13: 44 New
        0
        Marek Rozny - Russia will not leave Baikonur; there will simply be a redistribution of 90% from Russian cosmodromes 10% to Baikonur. A joint venture will be created. Zeniths will launch jointly the satellites. Kazakhstan really is spinning under tighten education under pull. Money is not the most important thing here. The most important thing is the intellectual potential!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny April 14 2013 14: 15 New
          +1
          Even if 10% of launches are left at Baikonur - this is the actual death of the city and the complex. Andrey, the part of the spaceport is already rusting there, and after 90% of it becomes unnecessary, all the more it will decline. Do we need a dead city? Of course not. Therefore, our Russians began to peck as soon as the Russian plans for the "killing" of Baikonur became clear. Therefore, ours are demanding that Russia decide on Baikonur - and Russia still cannot clearly answer. Because they don’t want to admit ahead of time that they don’t want to do anything there at all. That is their right. But in this case, Russia must abandon the current lease agreement for 50 years, so that Kazakhstan itself begins to conduct its business there. Russia's position on this issue is a dog in the manger. I understand perfectly well that you do not want to think of Russia as the culprit of the situation, but it is. Kazakhstan Russia has never put any sticks in the wheel (the time limits for launching heptyl missiles after a series of accidents - Andrey, it is in your personal interests that poison does not fall on your head. And in general, this is the norm when flights are temporarily stopped even tested Mi-8 helicopters until they find out from which the pinwheel of this brand collapsed in a particular case). Russia paid the rental price symbolic, and even then not with money, but with used stuff (at first we were slipped by old "dead" planes, taking advantage of the fact that the technical condition was not mentioned in the agreement), but now it’s just a barter due to the training of our cadets in their own military schools.
          In short, if KZ does not defend the future of Baikonur, then he will die in two years.
      2. mark1
        mark1 April 14 2013 14: 08 New
        0
        Lord! I see you are ready to give a damn. With these words, you rush a little more and the borders will have to be strengthened. Nothing terrible happens. Kazakhstan wants to get its share of business in space launches - it will! And Russia will not leave Baikonur until 2050, the form of cooperation will change (instead of a lease there may be a joint Kazakh-Ukrainian-Russian venture) and that’s all! The Kazakhstani side’s expenses for the maintenance of the cosmodrome’s infrastructure will simply increase, but how much income will increase is an interesting question. So Russia will certainly not be in a burnout, and Kazakhstan, at a minimum, will have real sovereignty over the spaceport.
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 13: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    My desires are no different from the desires of the other Kazakhs and our government - to conduct normal JOINT mutually beneficial work in Baikonur so that this complex does not die. Does this look like blackmail or attacks against Russia?


    That is, in short, "Only business and nothing personal." And how do you differ from us?
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 13: 29 New
      0
      where in this message you saw "only business and nothing personal" ??? I specifically highlighted the word "joint."
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 13: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    where in this message you saw "only business and nothing personal" ??? I specifically highlighted the word "joint."


    Russia and Kazakhstan agreed on the phased withdrawal of a number of spaceport facilities from Russian leases and their joint use by both countries, Izvestia writes with reference to a statement by the deputy head of Roscosmos Sergey Savelyev.

    “We are talking about the phased withdrawal of Baikonur facilities from the lease of Russia and the prospect of joint use of the complex. I want to emphasize that there is no question of Russia's withdrawal from Baikonur, new ways of cooperation are being developed,” Saveliev said.

    The deputy head of Roscosmos stressed that, in addition to sharing space center facilities, Russian specialists will train their Kazakh colleagues. At the same time, Kazakhstan will not prevent the launch of Proton launch vehicles from Baikonur.

    “The issue of the number of Proton launches in 2013 was practically agreed upon, we are waiting for an official paper from the Kazakh side. We asked to review the parameters specified in the decree of the Government of Kazakhstan of 28 last December. In this document, the number of Proton launches is limited to 12 which is lower than our needs. Kazakhstani partners have come to meet us, "Savelyev added, noting that earlier it was planned to gradually reduce the launches of these missiles until the closure of the Proton program in 2020.

    It is assumed that the first of the Russian leases may bring the launch complex for Zenit launch vehicles. According to Savelyev, if previously only ideas were discussed about the financial participation of Kazakhstan in the Zenit launch program, now it is about the participation of Kazakhstani specialists in the preparation of launches. At the same time, both states will bear the costs of maintaining the complex on an equal footing.
    Savelyev also recalled that in March 2013, a specially created intergovernmental commission for Baikonur should work out a new agreement on the use of the spaceport


    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/progress/rossiya-peredast-kazahstanu-ryad-obyektov-baykonur


    a-228524 /

    The Baikonur training ground is primarily needed by our missile enterprises. They produce very complex and often secret equipment, on which, in particular, the defense capability of our state depends. What side to attract your specialists there?
    You talked about cooperation with Ukraine there. You are welcome. The first complex which Russia refuses to rent is Zenitovsky. So please, establish cooperation with them. Let's see how much they want to share their secrets with you.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 14: 00 New
      +1
      And what did you want to say? I did not understand your position.
      In addition, I remind you that Savelyev does not agree here that in a couple of years the main launches will be transferred to Vostochny and Baikonur will remain out of work. The Kazakhs understand this and therefore have stepped up their efforts in the matter of the future city and cosmodrome. We do not care what will happen to this place. We see that Russia is going to close the spaceport. And using the agreement on a 50-year lease, he can stupidly block any attempt to resuscitate the cosmodrome and the city. At the same time, Russia itself shouts: "They are driving us out!". Although such simple nonsense in the head does not exist among ordinary Kazakhs or the government. Roscosmos is masking smoke with its retreat to Vostochny. In general, Roscosmos did it - the Russians are convinced that the Kazakhs are really driving the Russians out of Baikonur, which does not even correspond to a drop of reality. Roscosmos for the sake of the desire to steer large financial flows for the construction of a new strategic facility easily went to the deterioration of relations between Russians and Kazakhstanis, exposing the Kazakhs as oppressors and offenders. I'm not saying that Roscosmos with its idea of ​​moving the spaceport actually framed the security of Russia - a new spaceport a stone's throw from the Chinese border guards. In some tactical trifle, the Russians benefit from this transfer, but strategically they worsen the situation several times if they decide that the Chinese border is safer than the backwoods of the Kazakh steppe, and the Chinese are more loyal than the Kazakhs. Anyway. Now this is really your problem. And we will begin to deal with abandoned Baikonur. Moreover, there are no pastures there, as some "sages" here advise us, this is a semi-desert. So we simply do not have another alternative. We will develop the spaceport ourselves. You yourself give birth to a competitor. Indeed, frankly, the Kazakhs do not need space, but that the complex works and the city does not turn into ruins. Well, since such a booze has gone, we will be engaged in space.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 14 2013 14: 23 New
        +4
        SVP67, good day! You yourself have already sold all the secrets - look at China. Doesn’t resemble anything? Launching sites, rocket launchers. And Korea (the first degree of the Angara), France (Sea launch and launch vehicles), the USA (RD-180 or NK-33)? But with us in any? Although I think Pytin and Nazarbayev will decide everything - too much, beyond space, depends on our countries for the construction of a new Union Union. Marek writes correctly - for us, not so much space is needed, how much is the vital activity of the city and the cosmodrome.
        Sincerely. hi
  • Semurg
    Semurg April 14 2013 14: 09 New
    +3
    Well, I read komenty mostly mutual srach. Yes, the authorities need to decide whether they need a union or not. If they need, they need WORK at the philistine level (agitation, propaganda, etc.), but if not, then there are no questions. It seems to me that Baikonur was going to die USSR, Russia will go to its cosmodromes, Kazakhstan also does not need to maintain such infrastructure (we can at best have one launch complex and that is a big question) Maybe it is time for our authorities to start some production in Baikonur so that people would not suffer after leaving Russia with a move in search of a living. And the Kazakhs, the supporters of the union, should still think whether the union is needed? No Russians, they have the main Slavic union Russia Ukraine Belarus and through the stumbling block of Kazakhstan. Maybe I’m mistaken, but such a thought is constant in all comments on all topics, and then the Kazakhs begin and we, and we, do us a favor, okay, and you (maybe it's time to think of knocking on that door?). And so good neighborly relations, without our participation in building an empire, I am for it, and empires are always wars, blood and interference in the affairs of others, this is at our level. Well, at the top there may be other relations, another vision of the current situation, perhaps they understand us better and know more and will not make mistakes (think so, decide for yourself whether or not to have it).
    1. katran666
      katran666 April 14 2013 17: 21 New
      -1
      you are right, the Baikonur will die, the Russian people will be taken out (there will probably be a federal target program) and you are in a campaign with Marek Rozny with Jews, French
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 14: 14 New
    +1
    Yes, I’m talking about
    - missile technologies are often supernova and secret technologies that are inevitably associated with the country's defense capabilities. Admission to which citizens of another state is simply not desirable.
    - rocketry is not produced on the territory of Kazakhstan. And something tells me that it will not be produced.
    So the position of Russia, which is gradually “curtailing” its presence in Baikonur, is understandable.

    You want to carry out "joint" activities to launch Russian missiles. The question is, why do you need this? Do you think that Atlases and Arians will be brought to you for launches? I think no. Most likely, after the departure of our specialists, Chinese specialists will appear there, who will also not start anything there, but they will all study very carefully to recreate themselves
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 14 2013 14: 20 New
      +1
      We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR. This is our national goal. What place Moscow and Roscosmos thinks is not clear to me. Either this new spaceport shows that there will be no Union, or they are simply unrealistically stupid, spending huge money on a gamble that will automatically become meaningless in a single state.
      1. avt
        avt April 14 2013 15: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR. This is our national goal.

        How is that? It seems that there is already a CIS. It’s like in a gypsy joke - Fruza, why do you wash children, come here we will make new ones. laughing There weren’t enough salaries and posts in the CIS, we also decided to make posts for managers with a foot stomping. You’ll write the papers about Euros, then we’ll talk. And then we heard these tales about the renewed union with a hunchback, but what the union state with Belarus is still no one can answer. But do not frighten the Turkic Kaganate, dear, already scared and through the blood, you only saw this on TV. This is not about the Hercules steppes to talk about the processes on a global scale. Engage in concrete business, so at least make a platform for Zenith for yourself, you look and people will reach for you.
      2. Earthman
        Earthman April 14 2013 15: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        What place Moscow and Roscosmos thinks is not clear to me. Either this new spaceport shows that there will be no Union, or they are simply unrealistically stupid, spending huge money on a gamble that will automatically become meaningless in a single state.

        but Moscow does not think. Moscow went to the TC only because of economic considerations for its own benefit. it will go to Eurasia if only Eurasia calls itself Russia. and not Russia will become Eurasia.
        1. avt
          avt April 14 2013 16: 06 New
          0
          Quote: Earthman
          TS Moscow went only because of economic considerations for its own benefit. it will go to Eurasia if only Eurasia calls itself Russia. and not Russia will become Eurasia.

          Yeah, but Nazarbayev and Lukashenko at a loss? Well, knowing what the Old Man is doing, well, no one can prove to me that he carried a spoon by the mouth. For Eurasia, well, except for the Gumilev books, no one really said anything specific or said anything, not to mention legal documents requiring anything .A moan about that that Russia does not want to become Eurasia request I didn’t hear that Kazakhstan decided to rename. You’ll bewildered doves yourself figure out what you want, only specifically, but for now let the customs union stay, well, when the idea is beautiful, so that your head swirls with happiness and attracts great things, then we'll talk. so far only business and you and us and nothing personal. Yes, and real allies request only the army and navy. There’s even an old man - he will not send troops abroad according to the constitution and will not fit in with the Ossetians, although we’re living in a “single union state”, this is about the fourth place of the Kazakhs. Well, decide to rest against the Turkic kaganate and darlings request Do not exact. God forbid, of course, it’s not knocking on the clave, we do not know this on the Internet.
      3. baltika-18
        baltika-18 April 15 2013 13: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR

        Under the current economic systems (they are basically the same in all republics), the confederation, if it takes place of course, will be a stillborn child. But this is not what I want to ask and talk about.
        What do you think, Marat, what will happen if, suddenly, after a year or two, Russia, headed by a new leader, returns to the socialist idea, carries out large-scale nationalization, changes the very essence of the economic system? Is it possible that there will be a Eurasian Union, a Customs Union, if we change the whole legislative framework and constitution?
  • svp67
    svp67 April 14 2013 14: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: Kasym
    You already sold all the secrets yourself


    So what’s the matter, you buy, and then use at your own discretion ... you, that someone is interfering with this
  • Earthman
    Earthman April 14 2013 15: 23 New
    -1
    Russians here sold many campaigns to China without asking anyone
  • kirill110
    kirill110 April 14 2013 15: 31 New
    +4
    it is very painful to see the battles on the forum on the issue that had long been decided "upstairs". I think the leadership in Kazakhstan and Russia have already decided on the question, given the visit of GDP to the construction of a new cosmodrome, conclusions can be drawn.
    The ordinary people, both here and in Russia, somehow "violet" to this question, should exclude the truth of the inhabitants of Baikonur themselves - they do not care, but they are few in total.
    An offer to all the rabid patriots on both sides, but let's go and plant a tree in the yard. I think it will be much more useful than shaking the air on an issue that has long been resolved, albeit not fair for someone.
  • Phoenix bird
    Phoenix bird April 14 2013 15: 41 New
    +1
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Kazakhs are a very stubborn nation. And the main goals that face the nation achieve 100%. It will be necessary - we will create on the basis of the half-dead Baikonur the best spaceport in the world. Without Russia.


    Stubborn. That is yes. Only more in his eastern ignorance. Well, first create a couple - three institutions. equal, say, MTI in America. Train thousands of one hundred cool engineers. Create metallurgical, composite, ......... and a bunch of other industries.
    South Korea and Brazil tried, but they could not do without the help of Russia. And these countries are far ahead of Kazakhstan in terms of industrial development.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 April 14 2013 15: 58 New
      -2
      Stubborn. That is yes. Only more in his eastern ignorance. Well, first create a couple - three institutions. equal, say, MTI in America. Train thousands of one hundred cool engineers. Create metallurgical, composite, ......... and a bunch of other industries.
      It’s 50 years of persistent tetanic work and the thing is in the hat! smile
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 15 2013 01: 36 New
      0
      Wah wah wah! Well, where are we, eastern ignoramuses to enlightened white people.
      And if without reciprocal banter, then:
      a) the emphasis on creating a strong modern educational center in Kazakhstan has already been made. take an interest in the Internet Nazarbayev-University. a very ambitious project that already really exists and is conducting its work.
      b) in addition, Kazakhstan makes the most ambitious "intervention" of its students in the best foreign universities. There are more Kazakh students at MIT or Cambridge than all other CIS students combined. The state pays tuition for thousands of students under the Bolashak program. The emphasis is on technical and scientific specialties. so the advice on “prepare the engineers” was late. For a long time already we are preparing a critical mass.
      c) Metallurgy and chemistry in the KZ at a fairly high level. Such is the specificity of Kazakhstani industry and Kazakhstani science.

      Japan 100 years ago was considered a country of lazy people. 50 years ago, no one would have believed that they would be able to advance ahead in world science. 30 years ago, South Korea and Singapore were semi-peasant states. 20 years ago, China was a country with a primitive industry. 10 years ago, Kazakhstan was a completely impoverished state.
  • Phoenix bird
    Phoenix bird April 14 2013 16: 07 New
    0
    Quote: concept1
    It’s 50 years of persistent tetanic work and the thing is in the hat!

    The thing is the hat, and it will end like North Korea. All resources are threatened by the space-rocket complex. The country will be ruined. For the economy should not be skewed. And the "missile load" can be carried by countries with a population of 70 or more millions. And as oil ends in Kazakhstan, the country will return to a more familiar agricultural mode.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 April 14 2013 16: 27 New
      -2
      And there is. But still they won’t understand and believe you! No education no medicine! first you need to learn how to extract oil yourself!
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 15 2013 00: 29 New
      +2
      What and how we will develop has already been planned for a long time. We are moving according to plan. Since 1997, we know what and how we will do in our country in the next decades. If you are interested in the economy, then see how Kazakhstan is steadily developing its sector. At the same time, work has been underway for a long time to diversify national income - from the raw materials sector (under which we were imprisoned by the Soviet economy), we are moving into new industries. Factories in Kazakhstan are launched every other day. 20 years ago in Kazakhstan you would not be able to buy anything from local goods in a store except a loaf of bread and a bottle of vodka. In our KZ, neither TV, nor cars, nor even mayonnaise were produced. Now I can buy almost any basic product of Kazakhstani production - household appliances, food, cars, etc. Space is another topic that needs to be addressed in order to earn "non-resource" money. And regarding the “ratio of the number of inhabitants to the rocket load”, did you make up yourself at random? Where did this figure come from?
      Z.Y. It is very strange to hear ridicule about the raw material basis of the Kazakhstani economy from a Russian. You might think that the basis of the Russian budget is the export of non-primary goods ... We even have an industrialization program in place.