What are the prospects for the Baikonur Cosmodrome? Through the thorns to ...

192
Last week, the first meeting of the Kazakh-Russian intergovernmental commission on the Baikonur complex was held with the participation of the IPC co-chairs - Deputy Prime Minister Kairat Kelimbetov and First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov. We asked Kairat Kelimbetov to express his opinion on the results of the meeting.



- Tell us about the main results of the first meeting of the IPC.

- The issue of cooperation between Russia and Kazakhstan on the Baikonur cosmodrome was really discussed on 28-29 in March of this year. at the level of the newly created intergovernmental commission. Since its creation in September, the 2011 meetings have not been held and no specific agreements have been reached.

The issue of resuming negotiations on the cosmodrome has arisen recently, in connection with the readiness of the two parties to share their vision and inform each other about the preparatory work carried out. At the first meeting, a wide range of topical issues of cooperation was considered. In particular, it is the development of a Roadmap for the joint use of the Baikonur complex, the preparation of a new intergovernmental agreement regulating the procedure for joint use of the cosmodrome, the development of its scientific and technical potential, the creation of joint missile systems, personnel training, and the participation of Kazakhstani specialists in launch services. development of the city of Baikonur.

The parties agreed to begin a concrete review of the draft Roadmap as part of a joint working group, the first meeting of which is scheduled for May of this year. On this basis, work will continue on the draft of a new intergovernmental agreement.

In addition, issues related to the implementation of the Baiterek project, further work on preparing for signing projects of international treaties governing various areas of the functioning of the Baikonur complex, including the life activity and social development of the Baikonur city, were considered.

- Is it possible to say that the outlined disagreements about the cosmodrome's tomorrow are overcome?

- We have no disagreement. We confirm the unconditional commitment of the Republic of Kazakhstan to the Lease Agreement, which was concluded in 1994, and the Agreement, signed by the presidents of the two countries in 2004, and providing for the extension of the lease term to 2050.

We believe that the Baikonur cosmodrome is an excellent opportunity for the implementation of joint programs in the field of innovation, scientific, educational and space activities. As I have already said, by the end of May we will work out approaches to creating a Roadmap for updating the legislation that governs our joint use of the cosmodrome.

As for launches, our space agencies have agreed on an agreed schedule for their implementation at 2013 year, and now we will plan this work for the medium term.

In general, until the end of the year, we will discuss and resolve on a mutually beneficial basis the accumulated issues that concern both cooperation in the space industry and the life activity of the city of Baikonur.

- What specific steps are envisaged in the Roadmap you mentioned?

“The roadmap involves updating legislation that regulates our sharing of the spaceport.” In essence, this will be a new basic agreement that takes into account mutual interests. Also in it we must take into account the prospects for the development of the city of Baikonur.

- In the informational message on the results of the meeting of the commission it was stated that the parties reached an agreement on the implementation of the project to create a Baiterek cruise ship using the Zenit launch vehicle. At the same time, a little earlier it became known that the Russian side is planning to develop its new Vostochny cosmodrome, with an emphasis on this carrier. Would such an approach in the future be an obstacle to the implementation of the "Baiterek" project?

- If in previous years the implementation of the Baiterek rocket and space complex was proposed on the Angara rocket carrier, now the parties have agreed to implement it on a phased basis on the Zenit rocket carrier.

Expert Commentary

Nurlan Aselkan, CEO of COSMOS.KZ:

- The meeting of the Russian-Kazakh IPC on the Baikonur complex was announced before the New Year. It was planned to put the problems that had previously been voiced in the press completely from a new angle and to begin a search for approaches to their solution. I must say: this is a big plus that the meeting took place as scheduled and that it took place at all.

For the first time, not only experts, but also heads of departments and heads of government at the level of deputy prime ministers looked into each other’s eyes, voiced their vision of existing problems. That is, it is certainly positive. But another is interesting. At the end of the meeting, the IPC co-chairs commented on its results in quite different ways. Mr. Kelimbetov made an emphasis on the fact that a decision was made on the final transition in the Baiterek project from one launch vehicle to another. Specifically, from the "Angara" to "Zenith". This information was presented by the Kazakh media as the main substantive component of the last meeting. The Russian side, through the mouth of Mr. Shuvalov, said that the launch schedules for the current year were agreed upon and a long-term launch schedule for the next two to three years is being worked out. The Russian Deputy Prime Minister also informed that the prospects for the development of the city of Baikonur and the cosmodrome itself were discussed in the light of new trends and suggested mechanisms for their implementation. The Russian side had no specification of the results of the negotiations on the Baiterek project and its carriers.

In general, this (when the Russian side evades the concretization of its position) during the negotiations on Baikonur is not the first time. Perhaps it is worth paying attention to, since it can be concluded that the path from the Angara to Zenit will not be easy. So many commentators and experts say.

Of course, a politically acceptable formula was found: not exciting the public, suggest a project transformation option and leave the Baiterek brand as it is. Actually, this is a complete change of the rocket and, accordingly, the construction site of the launch: instead of the former launch site of the storm, the existing zenith platform is used. Nearby there is a destroyed (also “zenitovskaya”), the question of whose restoration will be considered. That is, the rocket is changing, the place of deployment is changing, the structure and format of the project are changing. Therefore, the investments that should be invested in the project with the advent of “Zenith” are completely different. They may be less than in the project with “Angara”, but what is being discussed now involves the preparation from scratch of a number of key documents and plans. This is a feasibility study, and conceptual design, and modernization plan with a schedule of investments. So "Baiterek" is a completely new project, which is simply called as before. I guess there will be a lot of difficulties along the way.

Recently, an interview was published with the head of the Center for the Operation of Ground-Based Space Infrastructure (Roscosmos Division) A. Fadeev, who spoke about what his company does. And it provides the ground component of all launch services both at Baikonur and in the territory of the Russian Federation. Regarding cooperation with Kazakhstan, Fadeev for the first time voiced an interesting thing, which in principle is known to specialists, but it sounded at the official level for the first time. According to him, the Russian side plans to create on the basis of the 45 platform Zenit on the right flank of Baikonur a joint Kazakh-Russian enterprise that will launch missiles for our two countries in a priority order, and for the rest - in a commercial one. At the same time, Fadeev warned that very many knowledge, technologies and objects of work on the site are associated with access to rocket technologies. And many of these knowledge, information and competencies cannot be transferred to the Kazakhstani side, since they fall under the international regime for controlling missile technologies. Say, we are ready to work and we will look for ways out of the situation, but let you know.

I believe that this will be a serious obstacle to the implementation of our plans. Especially considering the fact that all the work on the launch pad is somehow connected with rocket technologies. And if you remove them from the list of works on the launch pad, you will only have to sweep, guard ...

Therefore, this question must be solved, and the sooner the better. I must say that Kazakhstan has been knocking on the control mode for rocket technologies for more than ten years. And the decision of this question was repeatedly postponed. On this occasion, there are different opinions. There is a point of view that we simply do not have the beginnings of the rocket and space industry and therefore it is difficult for us to apply for membership in this club. Kazakhstan speaks about the readiness to create the foundations of this industry - permitted, connected with the peaceful exploration of space. But the presence of the regime hinders our aspirations. There are also extreme opinions: they say our partners, including the Russian Federation, are interested in such an unfavorable, disadvantaged position of Kazakhstan. It is difficult to say how it really is, but the problem must be solved from two sides.

First, we need to formally and informally work out the issue with the members of the regime. First of all, with such leading, as the United States and the Russian Federation. I emphasize, the Russian Federation. Ask them for help in joining. And do not break your forehead on this mode when we start a big project.

Secondly, of course, we must start our own business, our experimental base, and conduct our own developments. Because as long as we develop the cosmic component, and not the military one, we have the right to create, in the end, from scratch on our own, without stealing, without appropriating. But we have the right to create. And having created, we will have more reason to do so in the future. At the moment, this is the weakest side of Kazcosmos activity.

Now back to the intergovernmental commission. She apparently outlined the very first range of issues and outlined a schedule of meetings in order to consistently solve problems one after another. The political stage, when the volitional decision forced the representatives of the countries to sit down against each other, passed relatively quickly, and now the routine begins, which, I am afraid, harbors a lot of underwater reefs.

What is this about? For example, a big problem lies in the modernization and reconstruction of the interstate agreement 2004 of the year on the Baiterek complex. For this it is necessary to remove the mention of the rocket "Angara". And since there is no Angara missile, the question arises of a partner from the Russian side. Until the last moment it was the State Rocket and Space Center. Khrunichev. If we are talking about Zenit and another launch pad, then it is clear that the center of Khrunichev is leaving the project. Who will come in his place? There are two candidates. The main one is the Center for the operation of ground-based space infrastructure, headed by Mr. Fadeev. He deals with launch services everywhere and, in the opinion of many, can become a partner of the Kazakhstani structure in this project. Another candidate is the Energia rocket corporation, which was related to the creation of the Zenit launch vehicle. It supplies the upper stage to it and quite successfully operates a similar project at sea (the so-called “Sea Launch”).

The problem of the withdrawal of one Russian participant and the arrival of a new one there, rewriting the entire legal framework is a job for at least a year. And it must be accelerated in every way. Because only we are interested in the rapid implementation of the project. I can say this, knowing the situation.

Another point that remained out of sight and somewhat alarming experts. The Zenit launch vehicle was developed in the Soviet time by the Dnepropetrovsk Yuzhnoye design bureau and is still being manufactured at the Yuzhmashzavod in this city. And the non-inclusion of the Ukrainian side in the negotiation process is not a good sign. Perhaps, the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan are going to attract Ukraine to another negotiating platform, but the sooner this is done, the more profitable it will be for the business, and for Kazakhstan as well. Since it is clear that the system of the three components is more stable, especially in the conditions of dominance of such a great space power, like Russia. Especially against the background of Kazakhstan, only taking the first steps in this direction. And then let's not forget that Ukraine is not just a formal manufacturer of missiles. She is the owner of the design and technical documentation. Without Ukrainian specialists, no action with a rocket is possible. Designer supervision of the carrier "Zenith" is conducted by specialists of the Yuzhnoye design bureau. Therefore, I repeat: the sooner we attract them, the better. Perhaps, in this regard, Kazakhstan meets certain objections from our Russian partner, but here one can only guess.

The Russian side voiced a proposal on the possible participation of Kazakhstani structures and investments in the creation of the Vostochny cosmodrome. In my opinion, this is a very interesting idea. The space industry of any country has a global market, and this should be remembered by Kazakhstani specialists. I have already said earlier that since we are engaged in the Zenit carrier, that is, there is a direct need to have our reasonable share in the Sea Launch. This will reduce the cost of production of missiles, provide customers with a large range of services. As for "Vostochny" and "Angara", then besides finance, we can bring in the developments created by the Baiterek JV team earlier. "Angara" is the main project of the Russian cosmonautics, a lot of money is spent on it, and our participation in it, albeit at a foreign cosmodrome, can bring a lot of advantages. Start-up services are a serious, high-tech business, and we must be able to work at different sites, with different carriers who are able to insure each other, to cooperate with all parties. Only in this way will be the result.
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  1. Earthman
    -14
    April 13 2013 07: 14
    Article nagging, oh sorry, excuse Roskosmos.
    But it is clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur, or is it a distracting maneuver
    1. Patriot of Russia
      -5
      April 13 2013 09: 25
      a decision was made on the final transition in the Baiterek project from one launch vehicle to another. Specifically, from "Angara" to "Zenith"


      The Zenit launch vehicle was developed in Soviet times by the Yuzhnoye design bureau in Dnipropetrovsk

      and so with regards to everything. judging by the "successful" launches of recent years, there really are no problems. eating up the Soviet legacy. sawing the loot
    2. avt
      +7
      April 13 2013 10: 56
      Quote: Earthman
      Article nagging, oh sorry, excuse Roskosmos.

      No, the campaign is the nagging of the Vice Prime Minister of the Republic of Kazakhstan Kairat Kelimbetov laughing “I must say that Kazakhstan has been knocking on the missile technology control regime for more than ten years now.” --- and Roskosmos has nothing to do with this issue.
      Quote: Earthman
      But it is clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur, or is it a distracting maneuver

      Of course I thought, and for a long time. Confirmation of this is the trip of GDP to Vostochny on April 12, well, read his comments on the development of manned astronautics. All the time for maneuvers is not, so time has already been lost courting Kazakhstan
    3. +4
      April 13 2013 12: 41
      Quote: Earthman
      But it’s clear that the Russian side was seriously thinking about Baikonur,
      In the light of Putin’s recent voyages and statements, it’s clear that for Russia Baikonur the stage passed and its significance will gradually come to naught! The East is the future of Russian space! hi
      1. +7
        April 13 2013 12: 52
        It seems that Baikonur will face the same fate as the Ukrainian gas transportation system. With the launch of Vostochny, the need for Baikonur will drop sharply, and it is unlikely to interest foreigners either, since it costs a lot of money and a big risk to build new launch sites. And the old launch sites for missiles of other countries are not suitable. So draw conclusions gentlemen.
        1. +5
          April 13 2013 16: 47
          It seems to be sawn into scrap metal at Baikonur over time, the chances are added !!
          1. +12
            April 13 2013 19: 25
            In fact, unfortunately, there are no specialists on the site who are in the subject of space affairs (such as, for example, the VAF on aviation). In the latest issue of the weekly Argymenty Nedeli for April 11, there was an interesting article, or rather an interview with the head of preparation and launch of the Energia launch vehicle and the Energia-Byran rocket and space transport system, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Major General of the Reserve VLADIMIR GYDILIN.
            http://argumenti.ru/toptheme/n384/245850
            Interesting and informative. At least on the topic reveals problems. Read please, you will not regret. I think that only by combining efforts can one maintain leadership in the space industry.
            And blaming others like "oh you are, and we are both" will not lead to anything good.
            1. +4
              April 13 2013 20: 13
              If you are too lazy to read, then I will try to briefly convey his thoughts.
              About the new cosmodrome. Asks 3 questions: "Where? Why? Which one?" "If a new cosmodrome is needed, then another and in another place." Vostochny problems - transport ("The entire trans-Siberian will stand up"), corruption (At first there were 37 billion, then 47, 80, 160, 600. "And we believe that it will cost 1 with a pretty penny", "It's like a Sochi epic" ), it is necessary to carry out full-scale research work, develop a feasibility study, agree with the Ministry of Defense (including the cosmodrome in the state armaments program). And so "pure commerce is oppression".
              "The program for the construction of a new cosmodrome should be national. It should have state support, like Byran, which was built by 15 ministries, 45 NGOs, 1206 enterprises, 1 million 200 thousand people."
              "Recently I was asked to give an expert assessment of Russia's place in space by 2030. I wrote that the maximum is 4-5th."
              "The hangara today is structurally imperfect, unfinished. It is not known whether it will fly at all. Many developers even say that it will not go to the first launch."
              And much more.
              I am from this article, although it is not said there, but it seems that this Specialist and Professional has a view. That Russia cannot refuse from Baikonur in any case.
              1. +5
                April 13 2013 20: 54
                Quote: Kasym
                "The hangara today is structurally imperfect, unfinished. It is not known whether it will fly at all. Many developers even say that it will not go to the first launch."

                And how can the Angara be constructively worked out if I have never flown before? And developers who do not go on the first launch would not be bad to check the FAQ the relevant authorities - what is it that they have been developing for almost 20 years, that they refuse to go for testing ?!
                1. +2
                  April 13 2013 21: 12
                  Mark1, hello! Are you asking me this? I quote the words of Major General Gydilin from the article. Although it can be assumed that he has in appearance. Before launching missiles, tests are carried out on individual units and assemblies. What is their interaction, sequence of work. Calculations and drawings are one thing. A test, for example at a low pace. , radiation, sun activity, it is another. It is known that unadapted to cosmos. Under conditions, Chinese electronic microcircuits led to .... I don’t even want to write further.
                  Checking the relevant authorities will not hurt. And if that, then behind bars.
                  But actually, MARK1, read the advice article.
                  Sincerely.
                  1. +4
                    April 13 2013 21: 37
                    Kasym, good evening! Well, then the questions are not for you, so if you offended - sorry. This is rather a hasty attempt to respond to the article. Ground tests of "Angara" were completed in 2012 and all documents were signed, and it is strange to hear about developers who disown their product like the devil from incense, so this is either misleading or an excuse for thorough checks (a lot of money has been successfully mastered for 20 years).
                    And regarding the construction of a new cosmodrome, this is inevitable. Transport problems will be resolved (we are even sending RN to Guiana), corruption, if we do not defeat it, we will calm down. But Baikonur will not lose the status of a cosmodrome, the Zenit launch vehicle is very good and commercial launches will only increase. Mutually respectful
                    1. +3
                      April 13 2013 22: 02
                      МАРК1. No apologies, it's okay. And on the occasion of the Angara. We would not refuse it if everything was good. It is very raw. But let's see what happens next. I will be glad if it "turns out".
                      Sincerely, Darren.
                      1. +3
                        April 13 2013 23: 41
                        Quote: Kasym
                        . She is very raw.
                        ALREADY FLYING! YES EVEN AT THE ACCOUNT OF THE KOREAN! good
                  2. +11
                    April 13 2013 22: 40
                    Quote: Kasym
                    A test, for example at a low pace. , radiation, sun activity, it is another. It is known that unadapted to cosmos. Under conditions, Chinese electronic microcircuits led to .... I don’t even want to write further.


                    Under the Angara, the USK is being built in Plesetsk and they will test it there. In Uglegorsk everything is going according to the schedule, they brought the zero cycle under the first table, now there is infrastructure and SES. Theft was, they shook hands severely. Raspberry overalls, led by Rogozin, control everything and answer to Putin personally ... No Belyalovs and Dvorkovichs, everything is closed, financing goes in stages mainly through Spetsstroy. They collect it on a business trip after May, maybe some photos I can bring.
                    1. +6
                      April 13 2013 23: 01
                      By the way, our "fifth column" is slowly escalating the situation around the Vostochny cosmodrome. On the eve of Putin's visit there was a broadcast on the Echo of Matzah that people in the Amur Region are leaving the region with their families for fear of being poisoned with heptyl.

                      Doubts Amur residents and State Duma deputy Dmitry Novikov. On the air of the radio station "Echo of Moscow in Blagoveshchensk" he declared:

                      - The population of the Amur Region was firmly guaranteed that there would be no missile launches using heptyl. And today everything goes to the fact that heptyl will be used. And now, even supposedly there is some kind of closed program, which should assess the consequences in terms of cancer for the Amur Region and what funds will need to be spent on treatment.
                      In general, V.V. Putin, who was planning to meet the upcoming Cosmonautics Day in the Amur Region, will have something to talk about with the local population in order to dispel people's fears.

                      link

                      So wait until the construction at the very beginning and mastered only a little more than 300 million rubles. the first swallows went, further the flows of paid dirt on this topic will increase, So we can conclude. that we are going the right way.
                      Well, the struggle for money is just beginning .. Popovkin wants to steer it himself, but it is tactfully moved, with the suggestion of Rogozin it was proposed to create a separate ministry and bring to mind the structure of the rocket and space industry .. apparently, instead of the Roskosmos agency or the ministry or Cosmoprom JSC (working title) . Popovkin in spite of the proposal to increase the number of employees of the agency (that is, nothing to change) to equate their salaries to the ministerial and introduce a 50 percent bonus to all officials in this field. In addition, we need advice on space under the president. I do not want him to lose control of such money. So we are waiting for who will win Popovkin or Rogozin, if Popovkin definitely continues the Serdyukov option, however this is only my opinion.
              2. +2
                April 13 2013 23: 39
                Quote: Kasym
                "The hangara today is structurally imperfect, unfinished. It is not known whether it will fly at all.
                The first stage of the Korean missile is the Angara! So at least partially but it is already flying! good
            2. +2
              April 13 2013 23: 36
              Quote: Kasym
              I think that only by combining efforts can one maintain leadership in the space industry.
              No offense !!! What efforts can we unite with Kazakhstan in the space industry, with Ukraine yes! What does Kazakhstan produce? hi
              1. +6
                April 14 2013 00: 23
                Bye bye. hi
                1. +3
                  April 14 2013 12: 52
                  And, of course, the spaceport!
          2. +4
            April 13 2013 19: 30
            Quote: APASUS
            It seems to be sawn into scrap metal at Baikonur over time, the chances are added !!

            Just before sawing you need to build a new one. And it will be neither old nor new!
        2. +1
          April 13 2013 22: 12
          Alexander Ivanovich, hello! Don't worry, in the difficult 90s, RK independently "pulled" Baikonyr, so that now, when we have money, let it run out. Even if Russia, which will be returned to me with work, leaves the cosmodrome, we will not leave it.
          Sincerely.
    4. +3
      April 13 2013 21: 18
      Quote: Earthman
      the Russian side seriously thought about Baikonur

      Of course they think seriously. There, Azerbaijan began to be greedy with the Gabala locator. Please, the Russians thought and decided to leave it to Azerbaijan. And now they just had to blow it up, as the Balts did. Kazakhstan will begin to be greedy and they will leave it to the worn-out Baikonur. Even Israel will not bite such junk. One way or another, they will take their companions to the East.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        April 13 2013 21: 32
        1) Kazakhs decided to raise the rental price ??? Do you even know what the Kazakhs offer Russia?
        2) Russia built something in 20 years at Baikonur (both in the city and at the spaceport)? No. Russia has not invested ANYTHING in Baikonur or is not investing, money is spent only on supporting existing infrastructure (moreover, in an abridged version). The Kazakhs do not like that Russia is squeezing the last juices from the city and the cosmodrome and I understand that Russia will simply leave the dead city and the cosmodrome to the sweethearts.
  2. vladsolo56
    +10
    April 13 2013 08: 29
    Kazakhstan in terms of space is an unreliable partner, constantly there are proposals to transfer the city of Baikonur under the control of the Kazakh administration. These are not just exclamations, these are proposals of people occupying a rather high position both in society and in power. Judging by the moods, any change in the balance of power and an Baikonur of Russia will be delivered an ultimatum. The Cosmodrome East is the only right decision. The main thing is not only to build a launch pad, but also to equip the life of everyone who will serve the spaceport.
    1. +1
      April 13 2013 11: 04
      If Russia leaves Baikonur, then even after Ukraine arrives there, no Customer will believe the new project. Otherwise, Ukraine would build a long-announced spaceport in Brazil. And Brazil is much more authoritative than Kazakhstan itself.

      PS. About Zenit and Sea Launch: www.firstnews.ru/articles/korporatsiya-boeing-suditsya-s-rkk-energiya/
      1. TRAFFIC
        +2
        April 13 2013 13: 26
        Well, the work is on, here is the news http://bmpd.livejournal.com/499196.html good
        1. opkozak
          +3
          April 13 2013 19: 09
          Quote: Nikolay S.
          even after Ukraine arrives there, no Customer will believe the new project


          Ukraine has several operational projects on launch vehicles, the most popular are the KRK (space rocket complexes) Zenit, Cyclone and Dnieper. The Dnieper KRK is exclusively designed for Baikonur.

          At present, the National Space Agency of Ukraine has signed an agreement with the Brazilian space agency on the creation of the Cyclone-4 space rocket complex. The launch of the Cyclone-4 LV will be carried out from the Alcantara cosmodrome.
          The Zenit-3SLБ space rocket is a member of the Zenit rocket family using non-toxic fuel components (liquid oxygen and RG-1 kerosene). It was developed as part of the Land Launch program for launching spacecraft from the Baikonur Cosmodrome.
          Availability a significant fleet of missiles KRK "Dnepr" (~ 150 pieces), long term of their warranty operation, infrastructure of technical and launch complexes at the Baikonur cosmodrome, areas of fall of separated LV parts, ground measuring complex, the existing cooperation of the enterprises of the developers of the Dnepr spacecraft guarantee the stability of the provision of services for launching spacecraft.
          1. +4
            April 13 2013 21: 13
            I like it - "Proton" is launching this terrible environmental harm to the Kazakh steppes, but "Dnepr" is a completely different matter, we can easily launch 150 missiles. And the fuel is the same!
            1. Marek Rozny
              +3
              April 13 2013 21: 20
              Kazakhs want Zenit.
              1. +1
                April 13 2013 22: 51
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Kazakhs want Zenit

                There is no way to do without Russia. engines and 3rd stage Russian
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +4
                  April 14 2013 02: 51
                  But where did you Russians see that Kazakhs are going to do without Russians? They themselves invented crap, they themselves believed. For the hundredth time, Kazakhs say to you - we want COOPERATION. No one is going to expel the Russians from Baikonur.
                2. 0
                  April 16 2013 06: 53
                  And the fall areas of the second stage in Altai.
            2. polygraph
              +5
              April 13 2013 21: 23
              The Dnieper is a rocket that guarded a peaceful sky, but reduced by agreement with SUR.
              Very reliable. And there are a lot of them. You can launch satellites for a lower price than for example the French.
              Why not make money.
              1. Marek Rozny
                +2
                April 13 2013 21: 33
                heptyl missiles we do not need.
              2. avt
                +2
                April 13 2013 21: 51
                Quote: poligraf
                Very reliable. And there are a lot of them. You can launch satellites for a lower price than for example the French.

                And to fill Kazakhstan, Altai with heptyl? But no, 500tki is enough. Well, those are not the times and there is no need to poison like that.
          2. 0
            April 16 2013 06: 52
            Baikonur has one feature, by virtue of which only Russia can exploit it. The peculiarity lies in the fact that the fall areas of the second steps are in Altai. For any foreign launch, we will require money and environmental compliance. And you won’t have to strain in this. The West is very sensitive to ecology. It is not difficult to strangle Baikonur, consider that it is already gone. And the roar of launching rockets will no longer frighten peacefully grazing flocks of sheep.
      2. +8
        April 13 2013 21: 52
        Nikolay S. They say to us: "A good neighbor is better than a distant relative." The authority of Brazil or economy is more important for you. interaction with the RK? For example, the governor of the Tomsk region said in the dashing 90s that without econ. cooperation with the RK "would stretch my legs."
        Vladsolo 56. Can you name at least one example when the RK "threw or substituted" Russia or exhibited some kind of ultimatum? Your comment is a game for "public" and nothing more, but it seems to be an adult. But RK has something to say, but they are forced to swallow for the sake of the future. Examples, please - the first companion of the RK; airplanes that were transferred on account of the lease payment for Baikonur (by the way, the first lease payment was ... for 1998 in the form of 3 Sy-27s, which turned out to be rubbish and we had to upgrade them at our own expense). This is only for Baikonyr.
        1. +2
          April 13 2013 23: 20
          Quote: Kasym
          They say to us: "A good neighbor is better than a distant relative."

          When such strategic decisions are made, emotions are not taken into account, and even the state of modern relations. If something happens, then you can’t build a spaceport in a couple of years. It is difficult to say what risks were taken into account when such a decision was made.
          - Did you consider the arguments of the Kazakh side to enter the business unacceptable? (this is the least likely)
          - is the situation expected to deteriorate in the post-Nazarbayev time? (may be)
          - They thought that it was impossible to risk the spaceport when the widowed greater Uzbekistan after Karimov exploded and created serious problems for Kazakhstan. (from my point of view, the threat from the south is most likely, and the US is planning that some kind of instability will occur in Central Asia)

          Surely serious people analyzed what was more correct. After all, not even tens, hundreds of billions of American money are at stake. And the transport infrastructure is remote and from scratch, fuel plants are already under construction, a city of thirty thousand and one to go there (by the Komsomol permit or distribution after the university now you will not send anyone), launch complexes for even heavier missiles.

          No need to perceive the real situation at the level of our everyday judgments.
          1. +5
            April 14 2013 00: 38
            What emotions! The trade turnover of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan is about 24 billion, if my memory serves me right! And with Brazil?
            - the presence of the cosmodrome, the most loaded on the planet - is this not an argument?
            - y Nazarbayev has a receiver!
            - Will Uzbekistan create Kazakhstan problems? Do you actually know our realities?
            On the occasion of the East - I'm actually not special. , so I suggested reading this article. After all, there is an interview with SPECIALIST. - RUSSIAN GENERAL, which has been in the industry all his life. That's all .
            1. +4
              April 14 2013 00: 54
              Quote: Kasym
              What emotions! The trade turnover of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan is about 24 billion, if my memory serves me right! And with Brazil?

              You do not delve into. Apparently, it’s too late for you. I mentioned Brazil as a country, Ukraine’s partner in the construction of a spaceport. As far as I understand, a commercial project is not working there yet, because This alliance does not inspire confidence among potential customers. Therefore, the RK + Ukraine option without Russia is doubtful.

              Who is Nazarbayev’s successor? 100%, what without Nazabaev will he be the first?

              After the US leaves Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, or after Karimov’s departure may collapse. I wouldn’t have sworn in your place. Especially if the opposite side is pumped up with money and weapons by the same structures that are currently occupied in Syria.
              1. +7
                April 14 2013 02: 05
                Nikolay S, good night. Y I have no desire to create "confrontation" with you. I had in mind that the Republic of Kazakhstan has always been a real ally of the Russian Federation. The fact is that countries such as France, Israel, Sweden, Japan, and also Ukraine expressed their intentions to cooperate with the Republic of Kazakhstan in space. Even China (Nazarbayev was recently on a visit there and the new Chinese leader himself voiced this intention) and a number of other countries, but we have always considered only Russia a priority in this. Agree that the conglomerates of these countries, far from the last, are able to do what something standing in space. Tell me, why is North Korea under the power to create its own carrier, but the Republic of Korea is not. If such a task is set, then I am sure that we will do it. Example: my father-in-law doc. Phys.-Math Sci. with his colleagues from the Nuclear Physics Institute (INP) near Alma-Ata, won the competition for the creation of a new generation mass spectrometer (this device was the main one on Phobos Grant, which Russia launched to Mars, but suffered an accident), which an order of magnitude will surpass everything that is in the world. Our scientists in this field yavl. leaders in the world. There is a queue for them to be published in the leading scientific publications in the world. Recently, under a contract with Japan, they were preparing a scientific justification for the creation of a new generation electron microscope, which was successfully done. As Academician Yakyshev said: "We have no equal in reading electronic lenses."
                According to the receiver. For the sake of this man, Nazarbayev betrayed the death of his elder son-in-law - Aliyev Rakhat (he fled to the West, but now Sud - Austria begins). In Kazakhstan, Rakhaty sentenced in absentia. Rakhat, having learned that this person was being put forward in the receivers, he harassed him in the media controlled by him. But Nazarbayev was prone to all his actions. Actually, Nazarbayev cannot be called a short-sighted person, he calculates everything in perspective. Who is who, but Nazarbayev is still that fox. So, be sure that the receiver is already there, but it’s natural, naturally, it won’t do it yet - the time has not come yet. If he announces this now, then underwater games will begin, which will affect him.
                Uzbekistan. Nikolay, please look at the map. dear. All transit of export goods from Uzbekistan goes through us - they are very dependent on us. This is the first. The second one. If Russia has just begun the modernization of its aircraft, then in the RK this has been going on for a long time. For example, the site already had a photo report on the state of our aviation (look in the archive). You marvel. Our army can withstand the entire united army of Central Asia. And thirdly . Kazakhstan has given guarantees of all the nuclear powers of the world (Russia, USA, China, France, England) to protect our sovereignty in cases of aggression, after our refusal of a nuclear weapon. As for the extremists - they don’t take us prisoner, they urinate us in the toilet, without leaving the cash register. For example, do you know at least one example in Kazakhstan of the open actions of extremists? Massive? Only isolated cases when these extremists were simply shot.
                Sincerely, Darren. drinks hi
                1. +2
                  April 14 2013 03: 33
                  Dauren, what a confrontation, on the Kazakh side, you have the most balanced position. I just tried to explain the construction of a new cosmodrome not by confrontation or inability to agree, but by long-distance and external risks.

                  France has its own spaceport. I cited Ukraine as an example, because in her alliance with a stronger Brazil than RK, nothing has been achieved so far. It is not necessary to equal North or even South Korea. These are scary police states. Our man cannot live there. Moreover, they made a rocket there, so-so, small. Yes, and its condition is unclear in fact.

                  According to "successors", etc. I happened to work with Galym Abilsiitov - deputy. Velikhova, built Troitsk and the Kurchatnik branch. Nazarbayev called him first deputy prime minister to Tereshchenko, minister of science and new technologies, with the promise of further prime minister. But it didn't work out. Your system Galym rejected. (I wrote about it in detail, but the site is frozen).

                  At first, Galym was engaged in just nuclear physics (in profile), Tengiz and Dzhezkazgantsvetmet. In some ways he asked me to help. So at some point I’m a little aware.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +4
                    April 14 2013 11: 53
                    Come on, Kazakhstan will stop cooperating with Russia, for we do not know what will happen after Putin in Russia ... A normal argument? Why is it worse than your thoughts?
                  2. +6
                    April 14 2013 13: 52
                    Nikolay, good afternoon! By "opposition" I meant "srach", which sometimes comes down to it. And I have nothing against the East, this is a sovereign right of Russia. Kazakhstan has the same right on Baikonyr - we want to receive dividends from it and this is as a minimum.
                    About France and others. Nazarbayev has repeatedly stated: "If you want to work for us, come in with new technologies." They need energy carriers (in particular, uranium), rare earth metals, etc. ... In return, we can ask for something in space, for example. So, if necessary, we will find common ground.
                    As for South Korea, you got excited - it is clearly not a police officer. Here is a question for me: "Why does Russia go to cooperate with her, but does not want to cooperate with us? Why is she ready to cooperate with India, Venezuela, etc. on military-technical cooperation, but not with us? You even give loans to them for purchasing equipment. , but not with us - although do we have money? Moreover - you rarely throw! ". Here's an ally called. Look at the comments of many of your compatriots. "Without us, Baikonyr is suitable only for metal", etc., etc. ... Why is such a derogatory attitude towards us? Here YOU give an example with Galym Abelsiitov. This suggests that we have world-class scientists. I can tell you a dozen more. And did you know that every year 14 students from the Republic of Kazakhstan study abroad. 000 of them under the "Bolashak" program at the expense of the state in the most prestigious universities in the world. Based on my experience (3 years of pedagogical experience in the head VYZ RK, mathematician), I made a conclusion. Sometimes a student from the province is better than a graduate of phys.-mat. schools, because he has a desire to learn. So here too, if there is a need, then we will build our own cosm. industry. Be sure. But the question is: "Why?" If we are allies and are creating the UNION. I am sure that Russia will not leave Baikonyr.
                    By the way, Kairat Kelimbetov (referred to in this article) studied in a parallel class with me in the physics and mathematics class. school (RFMSh). I’m thinking through my dairy brother, who has contact with him and who also studied at the Russian Federal School of Music, to learn more about these negotiations, to know the underwater movements in Baikonyry. Although I suspect that he may not answer while negotiations are ongoing and no decisions have been made.
                    Here is my fellow countryman under the nickname MAREK ROZNY. It was he who first announced the name of Nazarbayev’s receiver on this site. And I fully support him. Too many facts speak in his favor (receiver).
                    That's it . With respect to you, Dauren. hi
                    1. +1
                      April 14 2013 14: 52
                      [center] [/ center] Good afternoon, Dauren!
                      South Korea is a police country. When our man worked in Busan, it was not even that they worked 10 or even 12 hours SIX days a week, and at the same time had to meet with the owner on Sundays to eat noodles together. There were too many "little things", for example, a radio receiver could only be had with the permission of the police. some ranges are generally prohibited there, etc.

                      Accidentally clicked "send", got out the site with his inhibition. I will continue.

                      I don’t understand what critical technologies you are counting on for natural resources. They are not in a hurry to share these with Russia. Think you're lucky more?

                      If the name of the successor is named, then share.

                      Galym can hardly be called a world-class scientist, since he did not deal with science proper. But he is an organizer, an activist of a very high state level with appropriate thinking. From a young age, he began as commander of the VSSO (All-Union Construction Construction Team). It was not suitable for the local nomenclature and Kazakhstan was not useful.
                      1. Earthman
                        0
                        April 14 2013 15: 04
                        Quote: Nikolai S.
                        South Korea is a police country. When our man worked in Busan, it was not even that they worked 10 or even 12 hours SIX days a week, and at the same time had to meet with the owner on Sundays to eat noodles together. There were too many "little things", for example, a radio receiver could only be had with the permission of the police. some ranges are generally prohibited there, etc.

                        So, you answered the question of many inhabitants. You probably mean North Korea?

                        North Korea, Iran, Syria are inadequate countries with inadequate leaders.
                    2. +1
                      April 14 2013 15: 35
                      Dauren, what kind of reluctance of the military-technical cooperation with the RK are you talking about? A couple of weeks ago there was an article about this. Now with the participation of Russia in the Republic of Kazakhstan, modernization factories and new production facilities are being built. According to the air defense systems that Kazakhstan had in the 50-60s, now there will be a huge supply of the most advanced. And unlike the countries you named, for sure, at domestic prices as allies. And a lot of other things, from ships to everyone.

                      Cosmodrome, I understand, is a sensitive topic. Because it is too expensive and very long reproducible. And since you have to build something new: launch complexes for heavier missiles, plants for new fuels, you can understand the construction in another place. These are the risks that I have already written about. Or such a moment when they built Baikonur, did someone think that Kazakhstan would be a different state. And it's good that, unlike some others, allied. Now this is the opposite wave. The borders drawn in 1922m (later for Kazakhstan) were played. And now they are afraid of these borders. What will happen after Nazarbayev? What will happen in 20 years? It was too unexpected what had already happened, and not even in Kazakhstan. We must wait, endure, everything will be fine. We still have a lot of other things, which is not so sensitive, but it will raise the joint quality of life and will certainly lead to a closer union, and even reunion. The same Galym easily became a big man in Moscow. And no one even had questions, Kazakh is not Kazakh. Because he knows how to think faster and deeper than many. And what else does a man need.
                      Dauren, with respect to you.
                      1. +6
                        April 14 2013 18: 21
                        Nikolai, good evening to you! On the occasion of Korea: I was there three times, the son of my friend is there. Therefore, I write that this is a fallacy. Absolutely agree with you, if you go back 40 years. But not now.
                        For technology reasons - I'm not special. , so specifying is rather difficult. I know that, in my opinion, the French and Japanese can Canadians helped with the technology in Japan to adapt to their stations.
                        Imangali Tasmagambetov - mayor of Astana, former mayor of Almaty. But you must understand that this is not public. But those who are "a little in the subject and wiggle their brains" have just such ideas - says too much about it. Nazarbayev will not give his name until the very end, as an orgy will begin in the power structures.
                        About Galym, I concluded from your comment, I personally do not know him.
                        By military technical cooperation. I already wrote about my fellow countryman on this form - MARЕK ROZNY (here are his comments). He personally negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. There is no reason not to trust him. The site actually had an article dated March 22nd. So that you do not search for a long time, I will quote a quote from his commentary. "Because of the snobbery of the former Russian government, we have already profited a lot in favor of France, Israel, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, Ukraine, with which we created a joint venture in the military-industrial complex." On my own I would add France - helicopters, Israel - MLRS, Turkey and Ukraine - armored vehicles.
                        Actually, in RK there are few people who would be against the new Union. In this, I fully agree with you - we need to raise the level and quality of our life, the well-being of our peoples. Then others will catch up. Enter the total currency. I already wrote, but I repeat: the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, as twin brothers. Multinationality, economy, large territories, the presence of a large number of natural resources, etc. .
                        Regards!
                        PS And, probably, the main idea. Understand, we, generally speaking, do not care much about space. It is more important for us that the city and the cosmodrome live and prosper. "After us, even later" is unacceptable for us.
                      2. 0
                        April 15 2013 08: 46
                        Quote: Kasym
                        MARЕK ROZNY (here are his comments). He personally negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. There is no reason not to trust him. The site actually had an article dated March 22nd. So that you do not search for a long time, I will quote a quote from his commentary. "Because of the snobbery of the former Russian government, we have already profited a lot in favor of France, Israel, Turkey, Germany, Slovakia, Ukraine, with which we created a joint venture in the military-industrial complex." On my own I would add France - helicopters, Israel - MLRS, Turkey and Ukraine - armored vehicles.

                        I meant an article where everything was counted in detail: topwar.ru/25597-malochislennaya-armiya-kazahstana-vryad-li-smozhet-protivostoyat
                        -gipoteticheskim-protivnikam.html Pay attention to the expected Russian deliveries.
                      3. +4
                        April 15 2013 15: 02
                        Nicholas, hello! The fact that you write me at kirs. I read it all. These supplies are all wonderful.
                        I'm talking about another. Sorry, but y ryk-va of the Russian Federation while the fried roast does not bite. Here are some examples. Helicopters Marek negotiated with the Russian Federation on helicopters. But the joint venture had to be done with the French. Y You turn on the same MI-8 (17) for several years, but let's do a screwdriver assembly in the RK. Mikheev was invited to Kamov helicopters. We were not going to drag all production. There are about 20 MI-6s of us (26). And you, one at a time, upgrade us every year, it suits. And now money will go to France. Is this good for our TS and the future Union?
                        Airplanes. Homony for modernization in Ukraine. And why not to Russia, guess? Transport aircraft are all funny - An-12 because of the engines. We offered various options. And nothing has changed . I had to buy S-296 (I don’t remember the exact numbering) in the USA. This year 6 pieces will be delivered. It's good ? And they could do something with our money.
                        We have 5000 tanks. Of these, 1000 have been modernized, the rest are in reserve. They suggested that Russia jointly at our repair plant (either Semipalatinsk, or Yst-Kamenogorsk) upgrade. I had to cooperate with the Turks.
                        Okay, BTC. Let's take yran. Strategic raw materials. Until 2000, they flew to the Russian Federation. In the end, they spat, cooperated with Canada, Japan, France. And when the fried petukh bite in 2009. - stocks from the USSR began to run out. Kiriyenko (ROSATOM) arrived, and then said: “We turned to a strategic partner, but everything is busy there. Our competitors are already working there.” Dzhakeshev (head of KazAtomProm) had to sit on a bunk (and he did a lot to raise this industry, Well done, clever, there would be more of such a new, environmentally friendly method of extraction introduced), so that Russia will free the place. In short, a dark story.
                      4. +3
                        April 15 2013 15: 04
                        I can tell you about the problems of oil, gas, transit, cargo, grain. Here we, Kazakhstanis, hope that it may be now that we are in the CU and are creating the Union of the Russian Federation and will be more attentive to our allies and their problems. I welcome the establishment of joint bodies, committees, commissions.
                        Those links that you cited are only plans and intentions so far, of which there have already been an uncountable number (by one yrany they were immeasurable). But I think that in the end everything will form.
                        THEREFORE WE ARE VERY EXPERIENCED FOR THE BIKONIR. THEREFORE, I AM WRITING THAT RUSSIANS KNOW OUR REALITIES AND OUR RELATIONS. THIS KAZAKHSTAN IS A LOCOMOTIVE ON INTEGRATION IN THE POST-SOVIET SPACE, WHICH WE ARE PROMOTING SINCE 1993.
                        Thank you, Nikolai for the time and patience that you shared with our discussion! With great respect, Dayren.
                        PS This article about the small size of our army, to put it mildly, is not correct. Will explain . Y me, on the line of my wife, a relative - a military man was engaged in the inspection of our Armed Forces. He told me: "Tell me the type of armament which we do not have. Tornado, Yragan, Grad; S-300 all of Alma-Ata are surrounded by them; all K-50 helicopters that were able to be made in the USSR are standing by us (they were to be transferred for testing in Afghanistan), but did not succeed; T-72 tanks (T-80 are not suitable for our climate) and T-62 5000 pieces, Acats, Hyacinths, Peonies. There are problems with aviation and the fleet in the Caspian, but they are being solved. Nazarbayev shares a huge the attention of the army. Amenity and living space is the best in the CIS. Special attention to the officers and training. Even in NATO countries, they were sent to West Point. There is even a MiG-31. China is close to us. And during the USSR, when there was a tension, this perfectly understood. " I'll add it myself. RK is 9 state-owned on the planet and 15% of the territory was under military facilities: Baikonyr (in operation), Sary-Shagan missile range (by the way, it is technically the best location, such a place in Russia cannot even be found about 500 km long width under 100 km), Semipalatinsk nuclear test site (closed), long-range radar (like Gabala - still in service), Communication Center with the Pacific Fleet (still in service, anecdote about him - a submarine in the steppes of Kazakhstan), Plant a bacteriological weapon in Stepnogorsk (closed) and a test site on an island in the Aral Sea (closed), as well as 19 large military-industrial complex plants.
                        And even you write that we have air defense of 50-60 years. This is not true . Another thing is that modernization is required and the same S-300 is not enough, at least to close other directions, also Astana (they already closed it in my opinion), south, northeast and the Caspian.
                      5. +1
                        April 15 2013 19: 59
                        Quote: Kasym
                        I had to go C-296 (I do not remember the exact numbering) in the USA. This year 6 stitch put.


                        S-295, sort of. In general, with a focus on the Russian military-industrial complex, K-n could and can very strongly substitute. I'm talking about the situation with Zhanaozen. Since K-n occupies a huge territory, the so-called "dictate of space" takes place. The late Nurbolat Masanov wrote about this. By the way, he proposed to "pull together" the country by creating a system of high-speed railway transport.
                        So A very important component is the ability to communicate. This is well understood by the leadership, which was reflected in the development of airborne troops .. The paradox in the situation with Zhanaozen was that there were airborne troops, but in fact there was no military transport aircraft. This leads to the actual leveling of the very essence of these troops, the loss of their main property - mobility.
                        As a result, soldiers were transferred to Zhanaozen on the old Tu-134 and Tu-154 of the Ministry of Emergency Situations with an almost fully developed lifespan.
                        You can draw analogies with the events on the Marne:
                        “the French were virtually defeated. Reinforcements were urgently needed.
                        In order to strike quickly, Galieni had to take non-standard decisions, one of which significantly influenced the course of hostilities. He put two regiments of Tunisian Zouaves on ... Parisian taxis and threw them to help a flanking counterattack. 600 cars of the Marne Taxi (as the taxi drivers and residents of the capital called it) quickly transported the soldiers to their positions and the French counterstrike for the Germans came as a complete surprise. "That is, the" Miracle on the Marne "might not have happened ..
        2. 0
          April 13 2013 23: 47
          Quote: Kasym
          Can you name at least one example when RK "threw or substituted" Russia
          Judging by the latest statements of your "Great Helmsman", this is not far off! hi
          1. +5
            April 14 2013 00: 41
            Michael, don't juggle! Give examples to the studio. I brought, and your "not far off" - empty words !!!
  3. +12
    April 13 2013 08: 59
    As for Vostochny, I had some perplexities, but when I looked at Putin’s visit to the cosmodrome everything fell into place. So, we are urgently preparing a start for Soyuz-2.0, a start for the Angara is already the second stage. However, the start for the Angara is almost ready in Plisetsk and flight tests will begin next year. From this it can be seen that Russia fundamentally suppresses the possibility of blackmail by Kazakhstan, and even with the worst option, it can gain cosmodrome independence in 2-3 years.
  4. Urkodav
    +10
    April 13 2013 09: 30
    We are reaping the fruits of the friendship of peoples and Bialowieza feasts. Extrusion, blackmail, etc. Land rent is fair, but Kazakhstan has nothing to do with the cosmodrome itself. Space power, damn it ...
  5. +7
    April 13 2013 09: 44
    It is necessary to stop these unnecessary games around the launching of space rockets and build our own Vostochny cosmodrome. No other space power is experiencing such pressure on its development of comic flights from another country / Kazakhstan /.
    1. Urkodav
      -1
      April 13 2013 10: 22
      And also, to take apart and take out the starts (first of all Gagarinsky) and blow everything to ё .... So that for some people life would not seem honey
      1. Marek Rozny
        +1
        April 13 2013 19: 35
        Cosmodrome - the property of Russia ??? Are you confusing anything? Russia is a tenant, not an owner. Blast whatever you want at home. And smear with honey there.
        1. Urkodav
          -2
          April 14 2013 02: 57
          And no one asked the Jews. This does not concern Israel.
          1. Marek Rozny
            -1
            April 14 2013 03: 04
            Jaeger Sende is a complex of Bolmas, Dariger bar. Ol Sagan is a lump in the front. Men kazakpyn, Kazakstannyn azamatymyn.
            1. Urkodav
              -1
              April 14 2013 03: 18
              I can’t find it on the Internet. Do you want to not hebrew?
              And here write in Russian.
              1. Marek Rozny
                -1
                April 14 2013 03: 24
                Magan Lichkada Jazz. Men Sagan by phone Beremin. Phone arkyly kazakshya byari tusinderemin. Write in a personal letter, I’ll give you my phone number and there by phone I’ll explain everything in Kazakh to you where Kazakhs live.
                1. Urkodav
                  -1
                  April 14 2013 05: 12
                  It is known where Kazakhs live, and where do you write "Marek Rozny (5)" - it's interesting. States, Israel? Or closer? Are the trolls paid well?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    +1
                    April 14 2013 11: 50
                    Wipe the monitor away from drooling. I am writing to you in Russian, although I’m not sure that you understand this language adequately. Can you be a Jew yourself? Moreover, not an ordinary normal Jew, but a special provocateur who is paid from the State Department to drive wedges between allies? Is Urkodav something encrypted in Hebrew? And then you learned the Russian language for disguise. Passport scan come on.
                    1. Urkodav
                      0
                      April 15 2013 00: 06
                      You, cheap State Department, provocateur, Russophobe and just a piece of shit. You and a couple of renegades, sit here under the flags of Kazakhstan and for the same amount of money, on behalf of the Kazakhs incite ethnic hatred. How many nicks do you have? What so few advantages did you teach yourself? Passport scan? Xy to your mouth! Do not yap in Russian, your masters can surrender you to Russia, but here you sit down, according to several articles at once. Ciao Bombino! laughing
  6. Yankuz
    +4
    April 13 2013 10: 10
    We must stop this amerovskoe expression "Nothing personal, just business!". Let it be there. And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan. There is no other way out. What does the East have to do with it? This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan. And do not forget - this is the first time a man is flying into space! This is already a World place!
    1. Kurbashi
      +1
      April 13 2013 10: 19
      Quote: Yankuz
      And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.

      Don't you think that you have a perverted understanding of friendship? wink Did you ask the Kazakhs? Do they even want to be assimilated? You my friend, in my opinion, went into the wrong steppe ... a story in the 40s also knew assimilators from the Reich and what they ended up with, we also know at least my grandfather assimilated them so far they probably remember lol
      1. Chavy
        +7
        April 13 2013 10: 33
        Better to be occupied by the USA? Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, pays tribute to the US Federal Reserve at $ 45 billion. All resources go west, if only not for Russia? Russia will have to save you once again, all the CIS countries then ask for a protectorate.
        1. Kurbashi
          -3
          April 13 2013 10: 47
          Quote: Chavy
          Russia will have to save you in the next

          so far no one has saved us, and God forbid any salvation from you, including wink Let everything be normal this time ... And then where does the United States and assimilation do you at least read what we are talking about and do not need to shove the United States and the West into the discussion for no reason.
          1. Chavy
            +3
            April 13 2013 10: 57
            You were not saved? Yes, you live at the expense of the Russian Federation now, hundreds of thousands of migrant workers work in Russia and transfer money to families on pilaf. And where is assimilation? Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian. Your fellow countrymen guest workers will now take exams for knowledge of the Russian language in Russia to work.

            You will inevitably get closer to Russia, as it feeds you. And the United States occupies the bases and imposes nat. question. Do you like such nationalism? - Work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.
            1. Kurbashi
              -3
              April 13 2013 11: 06
              Quote: Chavy
              And where is assimilation?

              So you don’t even read, but get into a discussion
              read carefully:
              Quote: Yankuz
              And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.

              Quote: Chavy
              work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.

              We work and we advise you to work too so that other visitors do not work for you wink
              And it is necessary to cross from one topic to another and arrange a tear ...
              And remember, not the fact of who is saving anyone ... in the Second World War it was Middle Asia who saved and sheltered millions of refugees from Russia, and our guys fought the Germans the same thousands of kilometers from their homeland ... you should not suffer from short memory syndrome ...
              And last but not least about and without reason to push the US base and other crap ... here we are talking about something else.
              1. Chavy
                +3
                April 13 2013 12: 05
                As far as I know, there is a decent number of Uzbeks who perfectly speak Russian, living in Russia, and not in Uzbekistan at home and having children from Russian women. And there are many Uzbeks living in Uzbekistan who dream of doing the same thing as their former fellow migrant workers. At least Russia gives today the opportunity for residents of the CIS countries to work for themselves and create families, and feed families in their homeland.
                There is still a trend when Uzbek, Tajik working in Russia returns to his home begins to throw mud at Russia. Such are not grateful, spit in the well from which they drink because of their pride?
              2. Chavy
                +5
                April 13 2013 12: 22
                We all saved and died during the Second World War. We were one people, and the fact that Hitler attacked mainly Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and did not go to Asia was the merit of all of us, while WE developed Asia, transferred and created hundreds of industries, built infrastructure, and developed culture.
            2. Kurbashi
              +3
              April 13 2013 11: 09
              Quote: Chavy
              Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian.

              My comrade, my native Uzbek language, which I know perfectly, I am proud that I am Uzbek, but at the same time I’m not a scrap as someone to learn both Russian and English, and at the same time knowing them at the level of a native speaker I will never forget even when living abroad that I am UZBEK ...
              1. Chavy
                +1
                April 13 2013 12: 14
                Nobody bothers you to be proud of your nationality, to be assimilated means to speak Russian every day, earn money thanks to Russia, read Russian literature, know history, marry a Russian woman. Nobody asks you to become Russian :) You just need to choose partners who are closer and who helps your nation and not include the American "Russian bear who wants to eat you and Russify you" -
                1. Kurbashi
                  0
                  April 13 2013 12: 34
                  Quote: Chavy
                  No one bothers you to be proud of your nationality, to be assimilated means that you speak Russian daily, earn thanks to Russia, read Russian literature, know history, marry a Russian woman.

                  Comrade, let us choose for ourselves what to read, what to eat and whom to marry ... We don’t intend to lose our identity for the sake of you or, especially, others ... And it’s not for you to decide who to donate and who to not.
            3. +2
              April 13 2013 11: 20
              Quote: Chavy
              You were not saved? Yes, you live at the expense of the Russian Federation now, hundreds of thousands of migrant workers work in Russia and transfer money to families on pilaf. And where is assimilation? Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian. Your fellow countrymen guest workers will now take exams for knowledge of the Russian language in Russia to work.

              You will inevitably get closer to Russia, as it feeds you. And the United States occupies the bases and imposes nat. question. Do you like such nationalism? - Work in Uzbekistan and do not assimilate in Russia.

              Well, knowledge of the Russian language cannot be called assimilation. Assimilation is still different. Putin speaks German, but this does not mean that he is assimilated Russian.
              Assimilation is when a person, relatively speaking Russian, who is completely Russian by blood under the influence of a foreign nation, behaves, thinks and considers himself a representative of this nation. Here are the Tatars, and yes, many of them are assimilated.
              1. Chavy
                0
                April 13 2013 12: 03
                Knowledge of the language and living in Russia are the main factors of assimilation, the rest depends on a person’s desire.
                1. +6
                  April 13 2013 13: 01
                  Quote: Chavy
                  Knowledge of language and living in Russia are the main factors of assimilation

                  You know how your position is similar to the position of our natspats in Kazakhstan, our hurray Kazakhs ... they also want it from Russians and Russian speakers living in Kazakhstan .. they also want everyone living in Kazakhstan to know the Kazakh language, especially since and you say since they live in Kazakhstan .. wink
                  1. Chavy
                    0
                    April 13 2013 13: 37
                    I think that Russian and Kazakh living in Kazakhstan need to know Russian and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is not necessary to force, and not to yell in the media in vain, methods must be changed by the national patriots of Kazakhstan.
          2. -1
            April 13 2013 18: 22
            Yes, if not for Russia, you would all be like Mao Zedong! And about the USA - you want to own the secret developments of Russia, and in your advisors you have AMERS and BRITANS! That's right Russia leads friendship with you, looking back, "both yours and ours" - a slippery policy!
            1. Marek Rozny
              +3
              April 13 2013 20: 04
              Quote: ia-ai00
              Yes, if not for Russia, you would all be like Mao Dzedong!

              And that in some war the Chinese were defeating us? Since when did they become fighters? How many times my ancestors needed, so many times multimillion-dollar China was destroyed. Even during the Russian Empire, the Chinese constantly complained to the Russian administration that Kazakhs freely cross the border and do whatever they want in Xinjiang and that the Chinese soldiers cannot do anything. Of course, I understand that your ethnic pride is trying to show that the Kazakhs allegedly owe the Russians for their existence, but this is complete nonsense. China will tear its ass when it decides to cross over to the Dzungarian Alatau, all Kazakhs will slaughter Chinese soldiers without feeling the slightest feeling. And the Uighurs will definitely explode if China attacks Kazakhstan. And even if there were no CSTO, the Turks, the Azerbaijanis, the Kyrgyz, the Tatars and others would get into a fight with the Chinese for the Turks. Plus, the Muslim factor will also play a role. Let us take China for the most tomatoes in our steppes, and they will also cross the "river". Of course, we will defeat the Russians faster than the Chinese, but we will cope without the Russians. Not the first time.

              Quote: ia-ai00
              And about the United States - you want to own the secret developments of Russia, and in advisers you have AMERA and BRITAIN!

              We don’t need anything from Russia for free. Russia is offered cooperation and co-financing. If it’s wild for you, then it’s your problem. And regarding the personality of Tony Blair, he does not advise Kazakhstan on issues of domestic and foreign policy. He is needed to lobby for Kazakh interests in Britain. And first of all, to neutralize our opponents. Which Blair did perfectly. Our opposition in Britain was given in the ass by an English court. We don’t need anything else from Blair yet.

              Quote: ia-ai00
              That's right Russia leads friendship with you, looking back, "both yours and ours" - a slippery policy!
              Wouldn't it be time to change citizenship with such a mentality? Go to the place where the "correct policy" is and from there, shout against Kazakhs and Kazakhstan without remorse. And it is not necessary to say that you are supposedly friendly and sincere towards Kazakhs. Seen enough of these in the 90s. Thank God, they piled it off and no longer shuffle around here. You would not waste nerve cells, go to a "normal" country. It will be more useful for health. And in Kazakhstan and without you there are enough normal adequate Russians, whom the Kazakhs consider to be their own. Someone will honor you and, God forbid, will still think that all Russians in KZ are like that. Do not cast a shadow on our Russians. Change the climate.
              1. 0
                April 13 2013 23: 51
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Thank God, they piled up and they’re not gundos here anymore.

                Well, that's decided who with whom hi the way!
                1. Marek Rozny
                  +1
                  April 14 2013 02: 58
                  If any Kazakh - a citizen of Russia - would write here that the Russian government is slippery, insidious, Russian officials are stupid, and would repeat that "other countries are doing the right thing, that they do not want to communicate with Russia" - how would you react? Would you praise this person, "understand and forgive" or think that he obviously lives in the wrong country?
                  Why should Kazakhs smile at the non-Kazakhs who do not consider Kazakhstan at all as a state, who openly despise the state language, who don’t want to know Kazakh culture and history? Do you want to have such foreigners in your country? Ready to carry them on hand?
              2. Yarbay
                +6
                April 15 2013 13: 55
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                if China attacks Kazakhstan. And even if there were no CSTO, both Turks, Azerbaijanis, Kyrgyz, Tatars and others would climb into a fight with the Chinese for the Turks

                I personally will volunteer if they take it!
            2. +5
              April 14 2013 14: 39
              Olga, can you tell me where RK "substituted or threw" Russia? Or how do you write "both yours and ours"? I've been asking everyone, but no one can give even the slightest example!
              You live in the Republic of Kazakhstan - tell me how many places are there on the border of the Republic of Kazakhstan and China, where can the equipment go? Do not know ? And I say: one-Dzhungarskie gate, the other two passes is unlikely. Overlap Jung. the gates of forces are abundant. Moreover, we have written obligations of all nuclear powers to protect the sovereignty of the Republic of Kazakhstan. And how does China fight with us (read with the whole world)? They understand this very well. And if you look into the past - then it was on our swords that the dynasties in China changed. They built walls for generations to isolate themselves from us, but they did not succeed.
              Sincerely.
        2. +6
          April 13 2013 18: 33
          Quote: Chavy
          Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, is paying tribute to the US Fed in 45 billions of dollars.

          And how much does Russia pay then ??
          In the Russian Federation, after all, there is a discussion that most of the Russian "money box" is in the United States and invested in their securities .. What is this if not a tribute ?! belay If you take your logic of reasoning? By the way, in this connection, you can remember Cyprus ..
        3. Marek Rozny
          +5
          April 13 2013 19: 41
          Quote: Chavy
          Today, Kazakhstan, under the guise of investment, is paying tribute to the US Fed in 45 billions of dollars.

          What kind of tops? Is US investment in Kazakhstan a tribute? Or is Kazakhstan’s investment in the United States a tribute? What did you want to say?

          Quote: Chavy
          All resources go west, if only not for Russia

          Oil and other commodities from the raw materials sector are bought from us by the West, the East, and Russia. With the same stupid aplomb, one can be indignant: "Why is Russia selling resources to the West, and not to the CIS countries ?!" Silly, isn't it?

          Quote: Chavy
          Russia will have to save you again

          Well, when did you save us at least once? In the Russian-Martian war near Karaganda?
      2. +4
        April 13 2013 12: 31
        Quote: Kurbashi
        history in the 40s also knew assimilators from the Reich

        The comparison is not correct ...... At least.
        1. Kurbashi
          -3
          April 13 2013 12: 42
          Quote: baltika-18
          The comparison is not correct ...... At least.

          the naturalization of the Baltic states, Bohemia, Moravia looked exactly like that ... the late Hans Frank can confirm you wink
      3. Yankuz
        +2
        April 13 2013 13: 55
        To assimilate does not always mean to conquer! Let it be known to you! In the Soviet Union, all republics were assimilated around the RSFSR, so what? Only everyone lived happily from this and the culture was at its best, people respected each other, appreciated the customs and traditions of the peoples! Russia promoted science, culture and the idea of ​​the brotherhood of peoples, faith in a brighter future. And not a dirty business, the theft of national wealth, not an extremist ideology and not a religious perversion.
      4. -2
        April 13 2013 14: 07
        Quote: Kurbashi
        Don't you think that you have a perverted understanding of friendship?

        And no one asked you as a basmache about understanding friendship, hang out on your sites if you have them and there formulate for yourself concepts of friendship, etc.
        1. Kurbashi
          +2
          April 15 2013 08: 11
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          And no one asked you basmachey

          Thank you for emphasizing my essence, but I’m in my heart a basmach and proud of it wink And if you remove the jokes in the direction of keep your boorish language from him a mile stink wink
    2. Beck
      -5
      April 13 2013 13: 53
      Quote: Yankuz
      This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan.


      It's right. Baikonur will remain a symbol of mankind's exploration of outer space, begun by Russia from Kazakhstan. As well as the concept of Sputnik and the surname Gagarin.

      And all the inconsistencies in Baikonur are business inconsistencies, not political ones. They will talk, talk our departments and agree. What not to use the good that is.

      Quote: Yankuz
      And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.


      Yes. The solution is Yankuzi or Jacuzzi at the level of its distant predecessor Lombroso. Simple as a hairstyle to zero and primitive as a nervous irritation of the chords of the worms for chemotaxis, phototaxis and sextaxises because the worms do not even have a chord thickening in the head, but not that of the brain.

      If you, a jacuzzi assimilator, have a wife who has grown up and you mean that you are a sexual gangster named Indefatigable, then I ask for Kazakhstan. Not as a guest, but as a groundbreaker. We will put you in the pen and you will insect the sheep, the flock after the flock. And your offspring, brainless jacuzzi rams, will be used for bone meal as fertilizer.

      Come over.
    3. Marek Rozny
      -2
      April 13 2013 20: 10
      Quote: Yankuz
      assimilate Kazakhstan. There is no other way

      Welcome to Kazakhstan, assimilator. I will personally tear off the assimilator at a meeting in Astana and make him eat with a smile on his face. Then I will talk with you about Baikonur and other aspects of Kazakh-Russian relations.
    4. Beck
      +5
      April 16 2013 13: 54
      ADMINISTRATORS.

      Not the PATRIOTS of Russia, this is sacred, but the cheers-patriots, in their great power, insult other peoples, especially the peoples of the former USSR. There is not a single country of the neighbor on which the cheers-patriots would not take up arms. And as a rule, cheers-patriots start first.

      On this page, Kazakhstan was called various offensive expressions. And only due to the fact that the space departments of our countries, the closest creators, have current business disagreements, and which are not insoluble.

      Example. Yankuz in his koment proposed lime from history and from the future a whole people, by assimilation. Is this not a call for ethnic rejection and enmity.

      I could not resist that such as Yankuz, at the everyday level of communication, undermine the efforts of our countries towards rapprochement in the creation of the EurAsEC. To jointly respond to the challenges of our time. Answered in the style of Yankuz, answered rudely.

      You deleted my comment, issued a warning to me, and blocked my account for two days. It’s your business, YOU set the rules. But you are inconsistent. Comment Yankuza left, and this is the reason, a warning to him for inciting ethnic hatred has not been issued.

      My wish, not binding, you must be consistent and apply sanctions not only to the consequences, but also to the cause. Or change the site rules. They say that it is possible for the patriots, that cannot be for others. It will be clear.
  7. AK-47
    +10
    April 13 2013 10: 20
    Baikonur ... This is not just a city, not just a cosmodrome and not just a word. This is the era in the life of people, in the history of mankind. With this word begins the Cosmic Era of the Earth. In the literal sense, the first messenger of people, the First Artificial Satellite of the Earth, left for Space. From here, towards the stars and immortality, the Son of the Earth - Yuri Alekseevich Gagarin flew away.

    Better not say!
  8. avt
    +12
    April 13 2013 10: 32
    Well, the bottom line is the following. First, the Kazakh version of the type we pay and order the music did not work. By inertia, they are still trying to climb Vostochny --- ,, we can bring in the developments created by the collective of the Baiterek JV earlier. "Angara" is the main project of the Russian cosmonautics, a lot of money is spent on it, and our participation in it, even at a foreign cosmodrome, can bring a lot of advantages. " laughing The second is blackmail that we will now deal with Zenit with Ukraine, since you don’t want to put the Angara, also did not cause a reaction. We know better the situation with Zenith, all the same, together with the Ukrainians, we are really doing iron, and not driving our fingers in the air. Do the Kazakhs think that it is so easy to make a platform and fire a car? And even get into the market? “Launch services are a serious, high-tech business, and you need to be able to work at different sites, with different carriers that are able to insure each other and cooperate with all parties. Only on this path will there be a result. "--- Well, the flag in hand, the wind in the back. So they are waiting for a new player in the clearing laughing but this is their sovereign business. Well, the last, the saddest thing is Baikonur’s end. The great Soviet heritage, the monument of forgotten Victories, will slowly die. request No euras and customs union will save him. Well, nothing lasts forever under the moonlight, although it's a pity.
    1. +1
      April 13 2013 18: 44
      So how many times can the rental conditions be changed? Kazakhstani officials in one way or another connected with Baikonur and "around" it imagined themselves to be strong, some who flew into space thanks to Russia "felt" themselves great and do not hesitate to put Russia more and more new conditions and almost ultimatums, and this is already. sorry not partnerships, but twisting hands. So it's your own fault!
      1. Marek Rozny
        0
        April 13 2013 20: 15
        Russia has adopted a program for the resettlement of compatriots. Go to the relevant sites, it's time for you to take a breath from Kazakh inadequate officials.
      2. +6
        April 13 2013 20: 56
        Olga, when did the terms of the lease of the cosmodrome change? More details? What are these new terms and conditions? What's new Russia has built at Baikonyr? Do you know that all the money from the lease of Baikonir goes to maintain the infrastructure of the city and the cosmodrome? Kazakhstanis do not see anything in terms of money. Do you know that RK independently supported the "pants" of the cosmodrome and the city until 1998? Russia did not help a penny, but it made money on someone. pyskah! And where is the justice, please tell me? Are you even in the subject? Then you shouldn't insert, sorry, your 5 kopecks.
        A constructive dialogue is needed, with the proper use of the spaceport for mutually beneficial cooperation. The one-goal game will not benefit anyone, otherwise we will remain (both Russia and the Republic of Kazakhstan) with nothing. Read the link I gave above. There the pros say specials. who worked all his life in space.
        Sincerely, your fellow countryman.
  9. +8
    April 13 2013 11: 18
    With the commissioning of the Vostochny cosmodrome in Skovorodino, the Baikonur cosmodrome awaits the fate of the Ukrainian GTS. Ukraine has a GTS, but no gas, and Kazakhstan will have a Baikonur cosmodrome without missiles. Russia has embarked on a course of independence from the desire for rent, payments, etc. from the Kazakh authorities. And this is reasonable, it is not known where the political pendulum in Kazakhstan will swing with Nazarbayev's departure, who will guarantee that the United States will not suit Syria-2 in Kazakhstan.
    1. -1
      April 13 2013 12: 57
      See the map ... where is Skovorodino ... and where is the Free ...
  10. 0
    April 13 2013 11: 18
    With the commissioning of the Vostochny cosmodrome in Skovorodino, the Baikonur cosmodrome awaits the fate of the Ukrainian GTS. Ukraine has a GTS, but no gas, and Kazakhstan will have a Baikonur cosmodrome without missiles. Russia has embarked on a course of independence from the desire for rent, payments, etc. from the Kazakh authorities. And this is reasonable, it is not known where the political pendulum in Kazakhstan will swing with Nazarbayev's departure, who will guarantee that the United States will not suit Syria-2 in Kazakhstan.
  11. -4
    April 13 2013 11: 35
    By 2020, everything will fall into place - Plesetsto - military spaceport. Oriental- A civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. AND Baikonur commercial spaceport.
    1. +5
      April 13 2013 11: 54
      Nope, you guys don’t understand? nobody will give you the cream (that is, commercial launches) - everything will go to Vostochny. Do you want to do business - please, current at your own expense ...
      1. 0
        April 13 2013 12: 44
        katran666 nope guys, what don't you understand? -ARE YOU WHO?
        1. +3
          April 13 2013 13: 01
          catch a minus for misunderstanding ... I answer - my previous post was to those guys with the Kazakhstan flag in accounts that defend the position of the authorities of their country with foam at the mouth (Baikonur’s topic has already been discussed more than once). In principle, this is quite understandable and understandable, of course, I want to continue to use what has fallen from above, earn money, proudly shout at every corner - we do not graze sheep, but a space power! Each has its own truth - Russia has its own (it does not need competitors in for a commercial launch, which will be hit by an already small price tag, it even needs less competitors in rocket science - the same Yuzhmash, for example, also wants to eat and is ready to dump everywhere and everywhere), the Kazakhs have their own, you defend it. There is still a problem with Nazarbayev's successor - if he periodically rocked out - what will happen after him?
          1. 0
            April 13 2013 13: 13
            katran666 has its own Kazakhs, and you defend it. With the flag of Kazakhstan in the accounts there are still 4.000.000 Russians if that !!!
            1. +2
              April 13 2013 13: 25
              and because of the 4000000 Russians in Kazakhstan, Russia should build the production of missiles in Kazakhstan? Or maybe at the same time it should drive "khazpopisyats" to Ukraine, too, just because there are millions of Russians there, supporting the power of the Bays and Bandera?
              1. +1
                April 13 2013 13: 43
                Did I tell you that Russia should build rocket production in Kazakhstan?
            2. +2
              April 13 2013 18: 35
              Quote: concept1
              With the flag of Kazakhstan in the accounts there are still 4.000.000 Russians if that !!!

              As of January 1.01.2011, 3, there are 750 million XNUMX thousand people in Kazakhstan in Russia.
              Census of 1989 - 6 million. 228 thousand people.
              1. Marek Rozny
                -1
                April 13 2013 20: 29
                And how many millions of Russians fell from Russia over the past 20 years? Who kicked them out?
                And how many Germans are now in Russia? Che left for their historical homeland?
      2. -2
        April 13 2013 12: 49
        I had in mind that Russia would not leave Baikonur anyway. And for this you need to do something on Baikonur !?
        1. +1
          April 13 2013 13: 04
          Have you ever seen a bull being cut? stroking behind the ear, calming, then bang! and this ... doesn’t it remind you of anything?
        2. avt
          +5
          April 13 2013 13: 11
          Quote: concept1
          I had in mind that Russia still would not leave Baikonur

          So it's already leaving! And not on our own .------- ,, There is a point of view that we simply do not have the rudiments of the rocket and space industry and therefore it is difficult for us to apply for membership in this club. Kazakhstan speaks of its readiness to create the foundations of this industry - permitted, associated with the peaceful exploration of space. But having a regime hinders our aspirations. There are also extreme opinions: they say, our partners, including the Russian Federation, are interested in such an unfavorable, such a disadvantaged position of Kazakhstan. It is difficult to say how it really is, but the problem must be solved from both sides. "----- Who will create production for you and with what fear or terrible hangover ?? Do you seriously think that you will pay money and everyone will come running to teach you, technology to transfer and procreate a competitor? Here, stupid "amers and Russians will do? And, well, yes, there is still the European Union laughing

          “First, it is necessary to work out the issue officially and unofficially with the members of the regime. First of all, with such leaders as the USA and the Russian Federation. I emphasize, RF. Ask them for help getting started. And do not break your forehead on this regime when we start a big project. "---- request laughing Well, there are no words .... And there will be commerce for recycling. Something the Chinese will buy in their entirety, but mostly scrap metal
          1. +1
            April 13 2013 13: 25
            You won’t leave and you know why? because it contradicts the general policy, as well as the CU and the common economy space. Russia Builds the East in order to become independent of the Wishlist of Kazakhstan! but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!
            1. avt
              +4
              April 13 2013 13: 43
              Quote: concept1
              because it contradicts the general policy, as well as the CU and the common economy space. Russia Builds the East in order to become independent of the Wishlist of Kazakhstan! but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!

              This mantra has already reached the space. There will be SPECIFIC BINDING documents and when EVERYBODY WILL EXECUTE them, then we can talk about a common policy. But while the process is in progress, Baikonur will die. Just as unnecessary, right at the start of manned launches on Vostochny. And commerce in terms of launches will be carried out without Kazakhstan, well, such a spaceport is unnecessary, it was built for the Empire, Russia cannot be pulled if there is an Eastern, marine, by the way commercial on the basis of Zenith, launch and French Guiana. That would be the Angara ... but Yelbasy with his Wishlist completely repulsed the hunt to put her there. So, just for scrapping request sorry no matter how.
              1. 0
                April 13 2013 14: 07
                Okay, wait and see. Now it’s only visible that Russia is taking time and all is thinking what to do with Baikonur after 2020. And it is not clear that there will be a Market or an amusement park, or maybe there will be so many orders for SC launches that Baikonur will come in handy! ...
                1. -1
                  April 13 2013 20: 05
                  If they wanted to work productively with Russia, they would not change the terms of the lease several times in a five-year period, and they would not "consult" with AMERs and Britans. If a chair staggers under the booty, it is either repaired, or thrown out, if it cannot be repaired ...
            2. +1
              April 13 2013 14: 13
              Quote: concept1
              but this does not mean that she will leave Baikonur!

              That's right, as a backup pad in case of war and nothing more.
          2. +2
            April 13 2013 13: 39
            avt Who and with what fright or a terrible hangover will you create a production?
            Well, you are clearly not telling that!
            Given the fact that Americans, French and even South Koreans use Russian engineering and technology in their space programs and do not even try to develop the same engines, they just buy them stupidly in the Russian Federation, then we can talk about Kazakhstan in this regard!
        3. +1
          April 13 2013 23: 55
          Quote: concept1
          I had in mind that Russia would not leave Baikonur anyway.

          THIS FACT WILL LEAVE !!! hi
    2. +3
      April 13 2013 12: 48
      Quote: concept1
      And Baikonur is a commercial
      Open the market in Baikonur, this is an idea! lol
      1. +4
        April 13 2013 12: 56
        Everything is correct Michael so that there was no market there should be Roscosmos! And so very funny! laughing
  12. +3
    April 13 2013 12: 27
    Yes, we must get rid of the objects of possible blackmail by our former fraternal republics. Because now Russia is too vulnerable and dependent. And her attempts to restore relations are perceived as weakness and arrogance. We should talk as stronger, more developed, and not as equals.
  13. 0
    April 13 2013 12: 55
    Quote: Chavy
    There is still a trend when Uzbek, Tajik working in Russia returns to his home begins to throw mud at Russia. Such are not grateful, spit in the well from which they drink because of their pride?

    And how many Russians who left from Kazakhstan throw mud at it, including on this site ..
    Such are ungrateful request
  14. +3
    April 13 2013 13: 03
    As I read about replacing "Angara" with "Zenith", I immediately understood the future of Baikonur, these are huge pastures for cattle breeders .. build comrades meat-packing plants
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      April 14 2013 03: 10
      if, in your opinion, all Kazakhs still remain at the sheep rams level, then by this analogy do Russians still live in huts with livestock together, as in the recent past? do you have that kind of thinking?
  15. 0
    April 13 2013 13: 34
    Kazakhstan is Russia's closest ally in the CSTO and the CU, and a self-sufficient ally. It's worth a lot to have such an ally. The United States does not hesitate to support its allies with direct multi-billion dollar monetary subsidies and the transfer of weapons, as, for example, to two antagonistic countries: Israel and Egypt. From their closest ally - Great Britain, the Americans buy weapons, such as Sea Harier aircraft or Rolls-Royis engines. Amers buy grenade launchers from the Swedes, Beretta's small arms from Italians, Beretta pistols generally won a contract for deliveries to the entire Omer army, and many more examples can be cited ... And the Russians have a little irrational logic - to leave allies and friendly countries without competence in high technology spheres (Kazakhstan without a cosmodrome, Belarus without wheeled tractors, Ukraine without planes and missiles, etc.) because they will "crush" and "speculate", while purchasing weapons from "sworn friends" in NATO. Yes, if Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine “speculated” and “pressed” then NATO tanks would have already stood near Smolensk and Rostov-on-Don, and missile interceptors "Made in SeSheA" were based in the South Urals ... Kazakhs are also not deaf-blind- dumb, and draw conclusions, building their own military-industrial complex no longer only in cooperation with Russia, but also with Europeans or Jews. The leadership of Kazakhstan has space ambitions, even just as a symbolic gesture denoting the financial and industrial power of Kazakhstan and its role as a regional leader. And they will get themselves a rocket (apparently Zenith) in cooperation with Russia (what they want) or not. "Excuses" about the regime of non-proliferation of technologies look rather pathetic, against the background of the transfer of missile technologies by Russia through Angara, South Korea. Or Brazil, which has the same space ambitions as Kazakhstan, will receive competence in space and missiles from Ukraine on a mutually beneficial basis.
    1. +5
      April 13 2013 14: 21
      Quote: Aeneas
      Amers buy grenade launchers from the Swedes, Beretta small arms from the Italians, Beretta pistols generally won a contract for deliveries to the entire Omsk army, and many more examples can be cited ..

      Well, pistols, machine guns, and grenade launchers - this is please, but in space technology do-it-yourself competitors grow? -This fire, we have already passed it.
  16. DeerIvanovich
    +3
    April 13 2013 13: 43
    the Kazakh elite could not curb their appetites, snickered, even Nazarbayev was already having a difficult time managing the situation ...
    all state-building infrastructure should be in its own territory, so that the East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...
  17. -1
    April 13 2013 13: 46
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny on Dalniy is a promising market nearby ..
    Do you mean the DPRK? belay
  18. avt
    +2
    April 13 2013 13: 56
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    so East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...

    Here! Namely. It’s quite a predictable neighbor from whom you know exactly what to expect. And who has not sung for a long time that Russian and Chinese are brothers forever.
  19. Yankuz
    0
    April 13 2013 14: 03
    Quote: Beck
    Quote: Yankuz
    This is a separate story. And Baikonur is more than just Kazakhstan.


    It's right. Baikonur will remain a symbol of mankind's exploration of outer space, begun by Russia from Kazakhstan. As well as the concept of Sputnik and the surname Gagarin.

    And all the inconsistencies in Baikonur are business inconsistencies, not political ones. They will talk, talk our departments and agree. What not to use the good that is.

    Quote: Yankuz
    And here it is necessary to revive the friendship of peoples, i.e. assimilate Kazakhstan.


    Yes. The solution is Yankuzi or Jacuzzi at the level of its distant predecessor Lombroso. Simple as a hairstyle to zero and primitive as a nervous irritation of the chords of the worms for chemotaxis, phototaxis and sextaxises because the worms do not even have a chord thickening in the head, but not that of the brain.

    If you, a jacuzzi assimilator, have a wife who has grown up and you mean that you are a sexual gangster named Indefatigable, then I ask for Kazakhstan. Not as a guest, but as a groundbreaker. We will put you in the pen and you will insect the sheep, the flock after the flock. And your offspring, brainless jacuzzi rams, will be used for bone meal as fertilizer.

    Come over.

    We’ll come, of course, if you have everything in the USA that way. And we are assimilating you all, or you’ve already become insolent - you already got the whole planet!
    1. Beck
      +5
      April 13 2013 14: 16
      Quote: Yankuz
      We’ll come, of course, if you have everything in the USA that way. And we are assimilating you all, or you’ve already become impudent - you already got the whole planet!


      What does the USA have to do with it. This program jams then this or that other flag hangs out. I am writing from Kazakhstan. Come over.
      1. -2
        April 13 2013 14: 26
        Quote: Beck
        . I am writing from Kazakhstan. Come over.

        Through a server in the CIA?
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          April 13 2013 20: 40
          Beeline in Kazakhstan uses American IP addresses. All claims to Beeline.
          1. +2
            April 13 2013 22: 19
            Marek, salam, glad to see and read your comments! "Publika" obviously does not know our realities and the history of the cosmodrome, but they write it like that, when some experts say - everything is as always.
            Sincerely, Darren.
  20. Yankuz
    +2
    April 13 2013 14: 09
    Quote: Kurbashi
    Quote: Chavy
    Here you are already assimilated, write well in Russian.

    My comrade, my native Uzbek language, which I know perfectly, I am proud that I am Uzbek, but at the same time I’m not a scrap as someone to learn both Russian and English, and at the same time knowing them at the level of a native speaker I will never forget even when living abroad that I am UZBEK ...

    That’s the main thing! People should respect each other first of all - as a neighbor of a neighbor in apartments, streets, and in countries. And where should the Uzbeks go for knowledge, culture, science (unless of course they need all this)? To America or what? Well, well ... They will teach them there, the Americans are, first of all, businessmen, and this must be remembered!
  21. -1
    April 13 2013 14: 26
    Quote: avt
    Quote: DeerIvanovich
    so East - and the flag in their hands!
    especially not for nothing that Vostochny in the Far - a promising market nearby ...

    Here! Namely. It’s quite a predictable neighbor from whom you know exactly what to expect. And who has not sung for a long time that Russian and Chinese are brothers forever.

    the Chinese have these cosmodromes, probably 4 pieces ... And it remains to be seen how many are disguised in the Gobi desert. so that the prospects of the Chinese market are somewhat exaggerated. Of course, I hope that the East will add the population of the Russian Far East, and the Chinese will sing again about the brotherhood with the Russians and how the Kazakhs will join the CSTO and the CU, having returned to the heap the territories transferred by Russia over the past 20 years.
    1. -4
      April 13 2013 14: 30
      Quote: Aeneas
      Aeneas UA

      It seems to me that you are not Kazakh and not Russian, but a banal Jew, painfully your thoughts are burry.
      1. +3
        April 13 2013 14: 33
        I general Ukrainian feel And sho is what burr?
        1. -5
          April 13 2013 22: 00
          Quote: Aeneas
          I vobschet Ukrainian feel And sho this, what burr?

          This is me Ukrainian. And you are a nameless "mote", no matter how shocked, or when you become a Ukrainian.
          1. +5
            April 13 2013 22: 48
            and you almost guessed my name winked For you, of course, I’m glad that you feel like a Ukrainian, but you have a subjective opinion about me, which let me disagree. feel
  22. Yankuz
    +5
    April 13 2013 14: 39
    Dear, enough already! Everyone should understand - God forbid, what will happen in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, where will all people run? To Russia of course! Where else? After all, Russia - at all times it was like an elder brother to our neighbors, and now we must behave with dignity and as an older brother in relation to the younger ones, and vice versa - the younger in relation to the older one.
    1. +7
      April 13 2013 15: 12
      in the USSR, everyone was equal, and there were no elders, juniors, second cousins ​​and other poor orphans. When there was a drumming into the heads of fellow citizens that someone was older, smarter, “feeding everyone,” “he won everyone himself,” and so on, then the Union collapsed. Even before the actual legal registration of all this action. Baikonur is one of the few "sacred cows" of the Union, which still connects almost all of our countries, and Kazakhstan also made efforts so that it did not "make ends" in the dashing 90s .. I am not against the East, more and more spaceports, good and different, is much better than throwing trillions of money on ski jumps. But I am against the "closure" of Baikonur, it is harmful for everyone (Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus), although this whole performance is accompanied by a hurray-patriotic hooting, bouts of arrogance, and dizziness from success.
      1. Beck
        +7
        April 13 2013 16: 31
        Quote: Aeneas
        But I am against the "closure" of Baikonur, it is harmful for everyone (Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus), although this whole performance is accompanied by a hurray-patriotic hooting, bouts of arrogance, and dizziness from success.


        And where did you come from so real? And then there are many all with a bang. Let's go to the East and everything here will rust. Of course it will be bad if Baikonur closes. It will be bad for everyone. The US will remain in the pros. But those who are against the United States last five dollars lay out and do not think about it.

        And then, I’m not special, but why did the East have to be built so far east? This is to bring equipment and apparatus across the country, at every launch. Deliver fuel, torture astronauts. Yeah. Such latitude, even to the south, is also in the Sea of ​​Azov. Unclear.
        1. +1
          April 13 2013 19: 11
          Quote: Beck
          Such latitude, even to the south, is also in the Sea of ​​Azov. Unclear.

          And where will the spent steps fall?
          1. Beck
            +3
            April 13 2013 19: 28
            Quote: mark1
            And where will the spent steps fall?


            And where do they fall from Baikonur?
          2. +3
            April 13 2013 22: 58
            during the Soviet Union they launched it from Cap Yar, but the steps will still fall on Kazakhstan ... Probably the Eastern one is still the most "ideal" option, so to speak, although everybody will be monitoring the launches. But the same Omerikans did not fool about this even during the Cold War, and launched shuttles under the noses of Soviet "fishing seiners".
      2. 0
        April 14 2013 00: 03
        Quote: Aeneas
        When there was a drumming into the heads of fellow citizens that someone is older, smarter, "feeding everyone",

        IMHO the "younger" thought that the "senior" lives at their expense, but it turned out not quite so or not at all! hi
    2. avt
      +3
      April 13 2013 16: 09
      Quote: Yankuz
      God forbid, what will happen in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, where all people will run? To Russia of course! Where else? After all, Russia - at all times it was like an elder brother to our neighbors, and now we must behave with dignity and as an older brother in relation to the younger ones, and vice versa - the younger in relation to the older one.

      If you don’t bring the Lord to happen, pray to God that a leader like Assad is in power. And as for the older and younger brothers, I’ll say this, the Soviet people are already physically ending, but those who even hooked on the USSR’s childhood received a very good vaccination from the nations that were born, quite intelligibly explained to what address the older brother should go and for how long. Yes and a generation has grown up in them, so that fraternities, if they pour out from troubles en masse into Russia, they certainly won’t be there. They didn’t grow up either pioneering children who were missed through a real war. You can’t return the time, but there’s no unifying idea. Cutting the dough is not an idea.
    3. Marek Rozny
      +2
      April 13 2013 20: 36
      set of letters. and you are such an older brother to me, like a pomegranate out of you. How long have you washed from the mud from the puddle, "brother"? and do you want to remember about the Russians evacuated to Kazakhstan during the war?
  23. -4
    April 13 2013 14: 59
    Quote: concept1
    By 2020, everything will fall into place — the Plesetsk Military Cosmodrome. East- civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. And Baikonur is a commercial spaceport.

    This is a Kazakh fantasy and no more, after the Vostochny cosmodrome is put into operation, all the specialists will leave Baikonur, take out everything that can be taken out of the equipment to Russia and forget about it. And without Russia or another space power with powerful scientific potential, Kazakhstan will not be able to pull this colossus, who knows, maybe China will lease it.
    1. +4
      April 14 2013 09: 41
      Quote: GOLUBENKO
      This is Kazakh fantasy


      What about Kazakh fantasy
      I will try to consider the issue of Baikonur in a slightly different plane:
      Baikonur as an image project..Baikonur, like POINT
      It so happened that he ended up in Kazakhstan and it’s necessary to do something about it .. it wouldn’t be him, it would be easier .. And so what...
      In Kazakhstan, very little of what is known to the whole world is like that of the Mongols Chingizkhan, the Uzbeks Timur, the Indians have the Taj Mahal (a lot of things with them) ... So Baikonur is a BRAND (brand) good known to a little bit of an educated person in the world ...
      And the Kazakhs and their leadership, whether they want it or not, will do everything in order not to lose Baikonur in its mission .. So the loss of it carries great REPUTATION RISKS..
      And this will not allow Kazakhstan in any case .. And K. will invest in Baikonur for the most tomatoes .. belay
      But as grit: "Ponty is more expensive than money" bully
      1. avt
        0
        April 14 2013 12: 59
        Quote: Alibekulu
        Baikonur as an image project .. Baikonur as PONTS
        It so happened that he ended up in Kazakhstan and had to do something about it .. wouldn’t be him, it would be easier .. And so what ...

        I agree. Baikonur is really not Russian or Kazakh, it is Soviet. Well, for today, for Russia, that for Kazakhstan, it has become a suitcase without a handle, but on the hike Russia has already decided what to do and no matter how they say, that the statement of the GDP is in fact an ordinary informational attack with the aim of sowing fear and confusion in the ranks of the "opponent." "He was not noticed in such things, anyone can be convinced by raising the history of the North and South Stream.
        Quote: Alibekulu
        So the loss of it carries great REPUTATIONAL RISKS ..
        And Kazakhstan cannot allow this in any case .. And Mr. will invest in the most tomatoes in Baikonur.

        Well, and this is really without us, by the way, and another reason why Russia does not make sense to invest in Baikonur wisely or heartily, all the same, money and energy will be wasted. So let the Swedes and Israelis throw the show off, the French can be lucky. Nothing personal, only business.
        1. +3
          April 14 2013 13: 56
          In general, the current situation with Baikonyr, I have analogies with the situation when Kazakhstan received sovereignty .. (although in my opinion Kazakhstan was simply thrown out of the USSR, and then the “ruble zone.” Remember, Nazarbayev made efforts to preserve the Union until recently. I'm going to sing him praises (he had personal ambitions in this matter.) But, not everything was in his power. By the way, he was called to Belovezhskaya Pushcha: "Will you be fourth ??!"
          Then, our leadership in one place think specifically laughing
          But, nothing - crawled out, climbed out ..
          I remember Nazarbayev's phrase, already in the well-fed 2000s: "Remember the 96th !!!"
          Then Kazakhstan, apparently, reached the extreme point of the fall ... beyond which, perhaps, there was anything (Postapocalypse stop ) Salaries were not paid, salaries were not given out .. well, a lot more .. I don’t tell you .. I think they caught it.
          I remember at the same time Nazarbayev made a raid around the world asking for help (actually with an outstretched hand). At that moment, much of which was surrendered ..

          Why am I doing all this ?! And the fact that Kazakhstan and its leadership have experience ..
          The experience of survival in critical conditions, in comparison with which, the current situation with Baikonir and not even a problem .. good
          Respectfully.. hi
          1. avt
            0
            April 14 2013 15: 06
            Quote: Alibekulu
            (although, in my opinion, Kazakhstan was simply thrown out of the USSR, and then the “ruble zone.” Remember, Nazarbayev made efforts to preserve the Union to the last. I’m not going to sing his praises (he had obviously personal ambitions in this matter).

            Not quite so, the Ogarev agreements are not the preservation of the USSR, they simply turned out to be Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shushkevich and humpbacked. They didn’t hear the fourth, and honestly, they don’t care. Well, what will survive .... request , but who argues. The question is something else, maybe try to live and not survive?
  24. +4
    April 13 2013 15: 31
    Quote: GOLUBENKO
    Quote: concept1
    By 2020, everything will fall into place — the Plesetsk Military Cosmodrome. East- civilian spaceport for the implementation of large-scale programs for the development of outer space of the moon and deep space. And Baikonur is a commercial spaceport.

    This is a Kazakh fantasy and no more, after the Vostochny cosmodrome is put into operation, all the specialists will leave Baikonur, take out everything that can be taken out of the equipment to Russia and forget about it. And without Russia or another space power with powerful scientific potential, Kazakhstan will not be able to pull this colossus, who knows, maybe China will lease it.

    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).
  25. -1
    April 13 2013 18: 15
    Quote: Aeneas
    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).

    Lots of bukfs, little meaning. You all perfectly understand, but they did the same with you. E..la is the brain of Ukraine with the transit of gas to Europe, stole and so on. We got the "North" and "South" streams, and instead of Yanukovych, Lukashenka collects the cream for transit, and the population has gas at a good price. And you are looking for gas in shale. So it is with Baikonur, Kazakhstan has been taking out the brain for 20 years of Russia with its Wishlist, on "VO" there were articles on this topic. And now the scribe sneaks up on the authorities of Kazakhstan in the form of the Vostochny cosmodrome and with its opening the ticket office will be closed.
  26. +7
    April 13 2013 18: 36
    Sooner or later, problems of a political, economic, technological, environmental and other nature, around objects outside their own country, will arise.

    Unfortunately, that Soviet integration will no longer be. Exchange in kind is not acceptable, and spraying defense means and technologies in territories with an unpredictable future is not only flawed, but also dangerous! Russia has so far one adequate partner - Belarus.

    In your home, everything will be better kept and always at hand!
  27. 0
    April 13 2013 18: 46
    Something like this: By 2020, Russia will reduce the number of launches from Baikonur by almost 6 times The first launch from the new Russian cosmodrome will be made in 2015. By 2015, 64 percent of space launches are projected to be carried out from Baikonur, 30 percent from Plesetsk and six percent from other Russian cosmodromes.

    Since 2018, manned spacecraft have been launched from Vostok. After 2020, about 45 percent of launches will be made from Vostok, 44 percent from Plesetsk and 11 percent from Baikonur.

    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/russia/k-2020-godu-rossiya-sokratit-kolichestvo-zapuskov-s-

    baykonura-pochti-v-6-raz-182745 /
    Any use of materials is allowed only if there is a hyperlink to Tengrinews.kz
  28. Vtel
    +2
    April 13 2013 19: 43
    Your spaceport is great! It’s just gnawing, faq so close to the Border.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +6
      April 14 2013 12: 56
      Yes, are you worried? China is the best friend of Russia and a reliable ally! Build near their border without fear. Are Kazakhs better than the Chinese? Of course not. You must be extremely careful with the Kazakhs. They constantly betrayed Russia and, in general, their faces are non-Russian. And the proximity of the Chinese border is on the contrary a security factor for the Russian spaceport. China will never do anything to the detriment of the fraternal Russian people. And it will be necessary - China itself will send troops to protect the Russian spaceport from the Kazakhs and other neighbors unfriendly to Russia.
  29. +4
    April 13 2013 19: 48
    Quote: GOLUBENKO
    Quote: Aeneas
    amazing political shortsightedness, you probably still think of yourself as a patriot. Of course, the Chinese will come to Baikonur instead of Russia (although they do not need it), the Americans (twice not needed), the Europeans (no less needed). Just to indicate your presence, to have a new zone of influence, markets for goods and positions for missile defense systems. and even that’s all, Kazakhstan itself will pay a bunch of dead Omsk prez received from the sale of oil barrels. More or less reasonable people are ready to shoot the officials who threw Lourdes and Camran. But they are at least on the other side of the world, and Kazakhstan is at hand, the most, so to speak, central position for control not only in Central Asia but throughout Russia (the European part and Siberia).

    Lots of bukfs, little meaning. You all perfectly understand, but they did the same with you. E..la is the brain of Ukraine with the transit of gas to Europe, stole and so on. We got the "North" and "South" streams, and instead of Yanukovych, Lukashenka collects the cream for transit, and the population has gas at a good price. And you are looking for gas in shale. So it is with Baikonur, Kazakhstan has been taking out the brain for 20 years of Russia with its Wishlist, on "VO" there were articles on this topic. And now the scribe sneaks up on the authorities of Kazakhstan in the form of the Vostochny cosmodrome and with its opening the ticket office will be closed.
    bukaf, tutochki, not a lot, but everyone judges the meaning from his own bell tower. Of course, the technique you use to translate a discussion away from the main topic is well known. But regarding the "Ukrainian theme" it is more logical to give an example of the An-70, a truly Soviet technologically breakthrough project in aircraft construction, which could become an example of integration, but becomes an example of disintegration and victory of mercantile private-proprietary interests over national interests. And the gas pipe and transit is a publicized fetish. The revenues from transit through the pipeline had only a very insignificant part of the revenues of Ukraine's foreign economic activity, gas for Ukrainians is cheaper than for Russians, Gazprom still receives surplus profits, Gazprom's contractors receive surplus profits from the construction of new transit facilities, Ukrainian oligarchs in power control the pipeline, and with it and resource-intensive budget-forming enterprises of Ukraine, the Germans make money on the resale of gas, Ukrainian nationalists are happy to curtail cooperation with Russia, Russian jingoistic patriots boast of the status of a raw material superpower and the fact of "punishment" of obstinate haakhlof, the State Department is contentedly watching the Russian-Ukrainian demarches, in general, everyone is happy very funny. But this is gas, which Qatar and Turkmenistan can also extract, and Bulgaria and Lithuania can also "transit". And to shoot rockets into space is a completely different status. Stalin understood this with Khrushchev, and Kim Jong-Un understood this with Nazarbayev. And in astronautics, you really won't get super-profits and cash. this business is costly, troublesome, not profitable, very competitive. Here the interest is strategically state-owned and not privately-owned. And it would be great to have a national project of the post-Union countries at Baikonur, and we get private benefits of contractors from the construction of the infrastructure of a new cosmodrome ... These are really more bukaf. recourse
    1. +4
      April 13 2013 21: 08
      Aeneas, I want to say to you - Great thanks for you (I hope I wrote correctly feel )
      for the most competent and detailed comments on this topic .. I wanted to write everything, but with knowledge .. problems winked
      On my own behalf, I will add that in Kazakhstan one of the main problems is maintaining the level of the scientific and technical layer of thinking people ... of the touch that remained from the USSR. One of the reasons that K-n seeks to participate in high-tech (and simply technological) events is the desire to have Kazakh (or Kazakh) engineers and workers working for them ... So that we have a layer of so-called ... "gray collars" .. ("white .." negative on the humanities all the rules ..). In K-not with money, I will not open America to anyone, as they say - MORE THAN .. And it is very important, thanks to them, to build up "muscles" in the scientific and technical sphere .. There are a lot of them now, due to the fact that they are not find applications for their knowledge - goes into other areas ...
      1. +7
        April 13 2013 22: 43
        in Ukrainian they say "dyakuyu" or "save", but "save" is more rare in "literate" Ukrainian, but quite often in "folk" ... That is always welcome wink It seems to me that in my comments I write about obvious things, although sometimes I get a bunch of "minuses". But these "minuses" of course do not affect the semantic content of my posts, and my personal views on cooperation between Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other post-Union countries ... Although, it seems to me, there are fewer thoughtful comments on this resource, and more urya-patriotic chants in search of virtual stars, I hope these "marshals" have served at least a year in the army feel
        1. Marek Rozny
          +4
          April 13 2013 22: 51
          - Rahmat!
          - What?
          - "Thank you" in Uzbek.
          - Please.
          - Do not understand.
          - "Please" in Ukrainian))))

          ("Only old men go to battle")
  30. 0
    April 13 2013 19: 56
    It is a pity of course, but parting with Baikonur is inevitable. If the Kazakh elite does not give up dreams of specifically getting into the dough from the operation of the cosmodrome and does not understand that it is more profitable than getting rent for the land near Baikonur and the environment within reasonable limits and the very presence of Russia is the most that it can count on.
  31. +1
    April 13 2013 20: 16
    I will not reveal a big secret if I say that, in general, they expected such a reaction from the Russian leadership. However, it seems to me that this was not news and not only for Kazakhstan.
    Not for nothing since the time of Kuchma, Ukraine and Kazakhstan have tried to build bridges in the field of joint implementation of space programs. Most likely, now this process will only accelerate.
    Separate agreements have already been signed with France. There are several packages of mutual proposals on the way that will touch upon issues not only of satellite assembly and training of national personnel, but also several other aspects.
    In addition to these countries, there are Israel and Sweden, which since the mid-XNUMXs have been trying to push Kazakhstan to closer cooperation in the interests of national aerospace programs.
    By "Vostochny" you can declare anything - the people will eat, but how it will actually be - time will tell.
    1. 0
      April 13 2013 20: 45
      romb You can ally with France, Israel, even with a damn bald
      but without Russia, Kazakhstan has nothing to give it is 100% !!!
      1. +1
        April 13 2013 20: 59
        If it does not, can you explain the nature of such a categorical statement?
        In general, no one says that cooperation with Russia will be curtailed.
        1. -1
          April 13 2013 21: 22
          I am sure that after 2020 Russia will not leave Baikonur
          And to the account the nature of such a categorical statement If even China, the USA, France, and South Korea use Russian knowledge, technologies, and engines in their space programs, how will Kazakhstan do without Russia ??? !!! after all, the same Zenith is a joint brainchild of Russia and Ukraine. About Israel and Sweden in general there is no question.
          In short, one ambition!
          1. +1
            April 13 2013 21: 39
            I am sure that after 2020 Russia will not leave Baikonur

            In this part, I completely agree with your opinion.
            Even if China, the USA, France, South Korea use Russian knowledge, technologies and engines in their space programs, how Kazakhstan will manage without Russia

            More precisely, Soviet knowledge will be. So, Ukraine has similar in scope and quality "knowledge" - experience, technologies. Of course, they cannot be compared with the well-tried system approach that the Russians have, but time does not stand still, the relevant experience is already being gained in a joint project with Brazil.
            Plus, Israel and Sweden are also clearly not new to these issues. For example, Israel has a problem with the general launch path of the launch vehicle, and the air base is not particularly suitable for this.
            If we talk about satellites, then it generally turns out that Russia is clearly not a leader in most cases. Products from Israel and France are still preferable.
            1. -1
              April 13 2013 21: 58
              romb these are all temporary difficulties and I assure you that the whole planet will soon be watching Russia's successes with open mouths in surprise and, above all, these are manned programs, deep space exploration and the queue of so-called "partners" will be long !!!
              Already in 2015, a flight to the moon is planned! The plans for the extraction of lunar soil to journalists told the head of the space agency Vladimir Popovkin. “We are going to launch the Luna-Globe spacecraft at the end of 2015 and the beginning of 2016 and work out the landing in the polar region of the Moon. Then there will be a large program “Luna-Resource”, consisting of several stages. There will be studies from the lunar orbit, there will be a large scientific complex, which we must "lay down." There will be moon rovers. A device is being developed for taking soil, not from the surface, but from a two-meter depth, ”the head of Roskomos quoted the media as saying.
              And believe me, there will be many offers to help research this soil! Moreover, from the most developed countries ...
    2. +2
      April 13 2013 20: 54
      what to say - success, the wind in your back
      1. +3
        April 13 2013 21: 02
        Rakhmet!)))
        Same to you on Vostochny! wink
        1. +2
          April 13 2013 21: 39
          In the east, they work in two shifts! All with the latest technology. All classes of next-generation rockets are environmentally friendly !!! wink
          By the time the “Vostochny” is finally built, it will become one of the 4 largest cosmodromes on the planet and become the most modern of them. This will be not only a launch complex for launching heavy carriers, but also 2 fuel plants: hydrogen and nitrogen. In total, the cosmodrome will include about 1 different structures. In addition, at a demonstration by Roscosmos of a modern star city, so far, for 600 inhabitants, judging by the images presented, the cosmodrome workers will have to live in ultra-modern housing among flowering gardens.
          1. 0
            April 13 2013 21: 43
            To be honest, I'm not against Vostochny, let it develop. Moreover, a country like Russia should have complete independence in such matters. Something else is simply not understood, namely, how much he will be able to respond to the statements that have already been trumpeted in all the media.
            1. 0
              April 13 2013 22: 17
              Quote: romb
              how much he will be able to answer those statements that have already been trumpeted in all the media.

              At 100%, otherwise why should Kazakhstan annoy?
              1. +1
                April 13 2013 22: 28
                I would not rule out that the statement by VVP is in fact an ordinary information attack with the aim of sowing fear and confusion in the ranks of the "opponent".
                In any case, let's see what happens.
  32. 0
    April 13 2013 20: 40
    Rogozin: the creation of the Ministry of Space will be discussed in the government until the end of April
    The Ministry of Space Development is really cool !!!
  33. +4
    April 13 2013 20: 52
    Hesitated to build your East and do whatever you want, and Baikonur close enough land to clog up. Our dough wanted, and yours that they didn’t steal, even managed to give the site for rent. Your grandmothers weren’t divided and arranged to be kicked out here. You say technologies, yours are all without You’ve already been sold in 90. It’s just that the Kazakhs who saw the rockets want to launch and why not, it’s possible to North Korea but we’re worse. You know very well that money is being stolen in space, so all this is complete. Money and without Baikonur enough, because of him there is one swearing, so close and deal with k ontsom.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +2
      April 13 2013 20: 59
      The logic of the Russians is simple. Let the launch pads rot further, if only Kazakhs are not allowed into space. And ideally, Roscosmos wants to close Baikonur and hold on to the agreement on a 50-year lease, so that later it will return to the Kazakhs a real space overgrown with weeds.
      And yet they have not transferred all launches to their Russian cosmodrome, Roscosmos will be hysterical, yelling all sorts of crap, accuse the Kazakhs of greed (although the Kazakhs, on the contrary, talk about removing rent from Russians and offering their investments in the cosmodrome), if only the brains are ordinary Russians to powder. And the Russians do not delve into the topic. The Russian media (with the filing of Roskosmos) told them “Kazakhs are bad, they want to kick us out!”, And they are happy to succumb to hysteria. And Roskosmos for the time being will be Serdyukov-style to loot at the expense of building a new cosmodrome. It's not for you to steal candy wrappers, here serious guys are doing gesheft.
  34. +4
    April 13 2013 21: 06
    Probably all the supporters of allied relations in Russia have a rest, everyone who writes under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur, and the complete removal of everything that can be taken away. And Kazakhs are offered to graze sheep. Supporters of the union in Kazakhstan read these comments, and how do you like such an alliance? Will you continue for this alliance? Is Russia ready to share technology with South Korea, but not with Kazakhstan (Koreans may have a different color bucks) Will you continue to write that Russia is our closest ally? It may be at a high political level, but at the level of the layman the situation is awful. At the level of the layman, Russia does not need allies, but provinces in place of all the CIS countries are needed, but does the inhabitants of these countries need this? This is the main contradiction of today. And until this issue is resolved, there will be tension between us. And politicians will not last forever, but with the change of politicians, courses will change, and voters have the right to choose politicians.
    1. avt
      +1
      April 13 2013 22: 17
      Quote: Semurg
      Probably all the supporters of allied relations in Russia have a rest, everyone who writes under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur, and the complete removal of everything that can be taken away.

      Business, nothing personal. The bestial grin of capitalism. Well, and export ... what's the point? Only on recyclable materials, this is what they did without us. Well, when in Plesetsk in the USSR, the seven start collapsed, well, yes, they threw it over, so there it was urgent to restore it, only they worked from the first. And now request and Eastern build and Turatam modernize? Yes, not that money, people can not be found. Not Soviet times, when they sat at work for days. According to Senka, the hat, such a space program as it was no longer, is clear Eastern pepper will not surpass Tyura. At the expense of the Allies, their two are the army and navy. About the provinces request the issue has also been resolved with the proclamation of sovereignty by the former Soviet republics, I don’t see any problems, nobody forcibly pulls anywhere, especially to Russia. Freedom to save paradise. The USSR died, and with it the community — the Soviet people, everything, capitalism.
    2. -2
      April 13 2013 22: 36
      Quote: Semurg
      .A politicians do not last forever, but with the change of politicians, courses change, and voters have the right to choose politicians.

      Well done! I wrote everything correctly. This is what Russia insures itself against, if under Nazarbayev Russia is constantly being pulled and blackmailed by the fact that its cosmodrome is on a foreign territory, then what will happen when a "new" generation of politicians comes? And please tell me why Russia will have such crap in the future? Instead of quietly developing, we will have to think about how to come to an agreement with the Kazakhs about flying safely from Baikonur.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        April 13 2013 22: 50
        "your" spaceport ??? we have nothing "your". and no one is blackmailing you. we just don't want to have ruins instead of a city and a spaceport. and it comes to this.
        1. 0
          April 13 2013 23: 07
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          "your" spaceport ??? we have nothing "yours".

          Yes ours. Built by Russian hands and minds. Try to build yourself better and more modern for your money and your brains and then take for its use in full measure and with a clear conscience.
          1. Marek Rozny
            +4
            April 14 2013 03: 21
            With Russian hands and minds? In that case, why the hell was my front-line grandfather Temirzhan Syrlybaev rebuilding the Moscow region in 1946-1948? Where is my share of Moscow real estate? And at the same time I propose to calculate the amount of Russia's debt to Kazakhstan for the restoration of the European part of the USSR, in which the Kazakh SSR took part both materially and with labor resources. Kazakhstanis took entire regions of the RSFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the BSSR under patronage, sent there livestock, equipment, food, clothing, construction teams, money. Have you ever heard from Kazakhs demands to get back "theirs"? And how will you pay for Kazakh lead, from which 9 out of 10 bullets were cast during the Second World War? And for oil, gas, meat, grain, uranium, metals? Let me remind you that the Kazakh SSR was a donor republic of the union budget, and gave much more than it received. Let's start figuring out who owes whom? And if we consider that both my grandfathers shed blood on Russian and Ukrainian soil, is there material compensation from the Russian Federation? We will solve these issues, and after that take Baikonur as a whole.
        2. +1
          April 14 2013 00: 16
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          we just don’t want to have ruins instead of the city and the spaceport. and it’s about this.
          Well, do not have ruins! Build, upgrade, run! Who's stopping you? hi
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            April 14 2013 03: 41
            Do you really not understand the essence of the Kazakh-Russian talks about Baikonur? The Kazakhs propose to "build, modernize, launch". And Roscosmos just doesn't want to. In the early 2000s, they pushed through the idea of ​​building a new cosmodrome, they received such funding - what for them Baikonur, from which you can't steal money? At Baikonur Russia has already scored yesaaaavno. The city and the cosmodrome are squeezed out like a lemon. The Kazakhs do not want the city and the cosmodrome to decay, and therefore offer Russia to start joint fruitful cooperation there. We have money, we have a desire not to ruin Baikonur. But Roscosmos has other plans. It is profitable for them to ruin Baikonur. But at the same time Roskosmos flatly does not want to allow Kazakhs to the city and the cosmodrome before the expiration of the 50-year lease period. What joy can we have in a dead city when the lease expires? The agreement was signed when the Kazakhs did not suspect that the Russians were going to transfer the launches to their territory, and thought that Baikonur would live all these years. But now it is finally clear that Baikonur is a kaput. And this worries the Kazakhs in earnest.
    3. 0
      April 14 2013 00: 14
      Quote: Semurg
      , all who write under the Russian flag for leaving Baikonur

      Baikonur is stomping on the spot in the space race and the East is a step forward! hi
  35. +2
    April 13 2013 22: 05
    What for is such an alliance where you don’t want to give the 60 technology for money. To the Koreans, the Chinese please, and why let the Kazakhs rejoice that they built Baikonur. According to him, a step to the right, a step to the left, a jump on the spot is a provocation.
    1. -2
      April 13 2013 22: 16
      buy elsewhere, if you are smart ... the union does not mean growing a competitor for yourself, look for fools elsewhere
    2. -2
      April 13 2013 22: 51
      Quote: Kazbek
      .Koreans, Chinese please, and why let the Kazakhs rejoice that they built Baikonur. According to them, a step to the right, a step to the left, a shot, a provocation jump on the spot.

      By the fact that in their territories there is no cosmodrome from which our rockets fly. And they won’t be able to blackmail us with this all the time, then it’s possible, then it’s not possible, then three missiles in May, then one, and you wouldn’t have gone such allies - goat’s partners into a crack. It will be calmer for us to cooperate with your spaceport and you will know where to stand straight and where to stoop.
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        April 13 2013 22: 54
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        and you will know where to stand straight, and where to bend down.

        blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?
        1. 0
          April 13 2013 23: 11
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?

          It’s you who you can’t figure out with your suit, and you behave this way, either as slaves or as prostitutes.
          1. +2
            April 13 2013 23: 15
            Dear, filter the bazaar.
            1. +1
              April 13 2013 23: 19
              Quote: romb
              Dear, filter the bazaar.

              You’re filtering it, and don’t poke the shepherd for me, I didn’t pass the sheep with you.
              1. 0
                April 13 2013 23: 22
                Well, what are you fool wound up?
                Of course, you didn’t pass with me, because it’s me, people like you, in my own life I graze, but in the stall when I drive you.)))))
                1. 0
                  April 13 2013 23: 29
                  Quote: romb
                  , I’ll pass myself through life, but to the stall when I drive.

                  It’s you probably chasing gophers across the steppe "nuker", but with people like me in your ass you can’t cope well.
                  1. 0
                    April 13 2013 23: 34
                    Come on, hang me!
                    I somehow don't care what kind of "animal" you are, I want to be a gopher, be it.
                    Although, you remembered about the ass, it means nothing like a worm?))))
                    Well what can I say - it really looks like!
                    1. -5
                      April 13 2013 23: 45
                      Quote: romb
                      you remembered about the ass

                      So you think with it, here you’re carrying all kinds of crap, try connecting your head, or have you got worms there ?, chase them, drink some green stuff, and go inscription, special for sheep gophers and worms.
                      1. +5
                        April 13 2013 23: 50
                        You first read what you wrote about the whole nation, and only then become in your working position.
                      2. -4
                        April 13 2013 23: 59
                        Quote: romb
                        You first read what you wrote about the whole nation, and only then become in your working position.

                        This is where I wrote about the whole nation ?, it is not megalomania that happened by chance that you confuse yourself with the whole nation. Yes, and it seems to me that you personally have nothing to do with the titular nation of Kazakhstan, and by the way, (not in "working", but in chopping, ie through "u" is written) if anything, contact me, I will help with spelling ...
                      3. +4
                        April 14 2013 00: 05
                        You cannot understand your suit there, pabout this and behave, like slaves, then like prostitutes.

                        Do you poke your eyes or see for yourself?
                        If anything, please contact, I will help with spelling.

                        I’ll definitely turn, I’ll just wait until you yourself become more literate, so right away ...
                        not
                        by the way
                        and by the way))))
                      4. -3
                        April 14 2013 00: 24
                        Quote: cherkas.oe
                        It’s you who you can’t figure out with your suit, and you behave this way, either as slaves or as prostitutes.

                        This is me to you personally, after
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        blue or what? or are you looking for slaves?

                        And thanks for the help, you get smarter before your eyes
                      5. Marek Rozny
                        +3
                        April 14 2013 03: 53
                        Are you talking about the first part of my message? if so, the hint was born of itself when you started fantasizing about bent postures.
                        and if about the second part - then come to KZ, and try to "joke" like that in the presence of a Kazakh. you will quickly find yourself in intensive care.

                        watch the bazaar. steppe slaves, gays and prostitutes were not. about "poses" and "prostitutes" joke with your friends. I hope they don't run around with rainbow flags? otherwise the style of your speech is of concern.
                      6. +4
                        April 14 2013 11: 17
                        This is me to you personally, after

                        Well, this is clearly frivolous, somehow too childish. As far as I understand, you really have problems not only with your eyesight, but also you do not shine with logic. Remember when you wrote your comments: "this is why you behave yourself, now like slaves, then like prostitutes," and when I pointed it out to you. Time interval - have you heard such words?
                        And thanks for the help, you get smarter before your eyes

                        I understand, what to do when you merged, it remains to clutch for something insignificant, meaning nothing. laughing
                        On this and finish!
        2. 0
          April 13 2013 23: 16
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          and where to stoop.

          But to bend down, it’s not necessary to substitute an ass, it’s so that you can’t break a bad head about something.
  36. -1
    April 13 2013 22: 57
    And here's more from the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. According to the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin, "the technical project of the Rocket and Space Corporation Energia has already been completed. Detailed design and the creation of experimental installations will begin soon. The deadline has not changed: in 2018, the first flight of the new spacecraft in an unmanned version is to take place. But it will be a fundamentally new spacecraft, ready for interplanetary flights. "
    1. +1
      April 13 2013 23: 06
      Quote: concept1
      And here's more from the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. According to the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin, "the technical project of the Rocket and Space Corporation Energia has already been completed. Detailed design and the creation of experimental installations will begin soon. The deadline has not changed: in 2018, the first flight of the new spacecraft in an unmanned version is to take place. But it will be a fundamentally new spacecraft, ready for interplanetary flights. "

      do not read tips before dinner ... sorry, Popovkin's statements. these stories with clippers, Russia and a bunch of projections have been filling the space since the mid-90s. Work and show the result. That seems to me. that there were no reports in the media before Gagarin’s flight or the launch of Buran, that tomorrow a trade union sanatorium for production workers would open on the moon.
      1. +7
        April 13 2013 23: 20
        It is difficult to realize that Russia can do everything without "fraternal republics" But the facts stubbornly confirm this. The mace flew, Pak-fa too, Borei, Ash, Ka-52 in the series, GLONAS in full force and the cosmadrome will be built and a new ship will be made not long left you will see everything !!! smile
        1. +1
          April 14 2013 01: 14
          it will be so, it’s just that some independent, proud and fraternal ones can’t get the illusion that without them nothing can be done ... this can only be treated by therapeutic fasting ...
  37. +2
    April 13 2013 23: 09
    Taking into account possible interplanetary flights in Russia, for the first time, a "compact nuclear power plant with a capacity of 1000 kW with electric propulsion engines" is being created. "This is a megawatt-class facility. Its creation opens up completely different possibilities in space, allows a new look at the use of geostationary orbits," the head of Roscosmos explained. "For comparison: the solar panels of the ISS generate about 100 kW. But the station is in near-earth orbit. And when flying, for example, to Mars, the area of ​​solar panels would be required, comparable to a dozen football fields!"
    “A variant is possible,” said Popovkin, “that the engines will operate on pure xenon heated to a very high temperature. This will make it possible to obtain specific thrust 20 times higher than on chemical engines. The most important thing for us is how the module can be used with the following energetics: as part of interorbital tugs, multifunctional platforms and vehicles for interplanetary missions. There are no world analogues. "
    However, there are two problems: "what should be the reactor itself and what kind of cooling system. The unique cooling system is a drop method, which we have theoretically confirmed on Earth. I think next year we will do an experiment on the ISS, we will show that it is also in outer space. is real. "
    "We plan to make a prototype of a nuclear power plant of about 250 kW by 2018," Popovkin promised.
    1. +1
      April 14 2013 10: 24
      concept1 your information reminds me of our "KHABAR" wink
      and is associated with Ostap Bender New Vasyuki soldier
      1. 0
        April 14 2013 10: 57
        So what do you mean by that? that it’s all a lie that Russia won’t do anything by itself; it won’t build a spaceport, missiles will not fly, etc. so what? ... And that's all I myself came up with ...
        Astapa made such nonsense! It’s even hard for me to comment on your post!
        Well, what else to say is not long left myself you will see everything!
        1. +1
          April 14 2013 12: 59
          Concept1
          So what do you mean by that? that it’s all a lie that Russia doesn’t do what it doesn’t do; it’s not building the cosmodrome, it’s not going to fly missiles, etc. so what? ...

          Of course, the spaceport will be built and the rockets will fly about:
          And here's more from the latest news! In Russia, a fundamentally new ship is being created, ready for interplanetary flights. According to the head of the Federal Space Agency / Roscosmos / Vladimir Popovkin, "the technical project of the Rocket and Space Corporation Energia has already been completed. Detailed design and the creation of experimental installations will begin soon. The deadline has not changed: in 2018, the first flight of the new spacecraft in an unmanned version is to take place. But it will be a fundamentally new spacecraft, ready for interplanetary flights. "


          Popovkin Ostap-Suleiman-Berta-Maria Bender-Bey .. probably the grandson of a Turkish citizen.

          And about Popovkin, the Ascetic (he is in the subject) has already given a detailed unattractive characteristic. In his kammenta smear to find ..
          And about "fundamentally new ship, ready for interplanetary flight. He is clearly at Ostap slyamzil .. laughing
          Best regards hi
  38. 0
    April 13 2013 23: 35
    [media=http://sdelanounas.ru/i/b/m/bmV3cy5tYWlsLnJ1L3ByZXY2NzB4NDAwL3BpYy8xYi81Z
    C9pbWFnZTEyNjE3MV84MGU3OTM4M2EyNDY0MWJlMjhjYzQxYTY4ZDBlYWJmYy5qcGc_X19pZD0zMTk3N
    w ==. jpg]
  39. +3
    April 14 2013 11: 45
    Do you think Kazakhstan will not achieve anything without you, you are deeply mistaken, the light didn’t converge on Russia. Our government has proved its worth in the 90, and now even more so when there is so much money. In the West, the crisis and they will sell technology with pleasure, and you have already done so much Kaz money. If that Ukrainians help them with the same technology.
    1. -1
      April 14 2013 13: 10
      Ukrainians will help them with the same technology.
      You probably mean YUZHMASH and ZENIT rocket launcher then read- The first stage of the Zenith equipped with the RD-171 oxygen-kerosene engine manufactured by NPO Energomash named after academician V.P. Glushko is a Russian company, a leading developer and manufacturer of liquid rocket engines. It was founded in 1929. The main products are engines for the lower stages of missiles. The company is located in the city of Khimki, Moscow region.
      Energomash is the developer of the world's most powerful liquid propellant rocket engine RD-170 / RD-171, exported including in USA. The number of employees is about 5500 employees.
      In January 1996, NGOs, having won the tender for the development of the engine for the modernized Atlas launch vehicle by Lockheed Martin, an American company, began developing the RD-180 engine. The RD-180 engine is considered one of the best engines in the world in terms of its parameters, and one of the most reliable [1].
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        April 14 2013 13: 27
        How much does Energomash cost? We will buy 50-100 basic engineers. And we will spend not that kind of money to save the city and the cosmodrome from death. We spend more on the Astana-Almaty asphalt road. Who will refuse a normal salary of several thousand dollars in Energomash? http://ttolk.ru/?p=8302 - here is an article about how much they are paid in Russia. Making an offer that would be difficult to refuse is not at all difficult for Kazakhs. And at the same time we will train our specialists. "Nothing personal just business". And we will give the purchased specialists an apartment in our new capital and in Baikonur, and put them on a long-term contract. Will a lot of energy workers refuse?
        1. -2
          April 14 2013 13: 56
          Marek Rozny How much is Energomash? We will buy 50-100 people of the main engineers. Well this is No comment!
          But seriously, everything will be accurate to the turnover. There was a statement by Ragozin about creating conditions for the relocation of Russian specialists to Russia since there are not enough personnel in the defense industry.
          And so, lastly, the budget of Roscosmos until 2020 1.500.000.000.000 trillion rubles, or almost $ 60.000.000.000 billion
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            April 14 2013 14: 26
            See how much they get in real life. There are enough articles on this topic in the internet. They do not even get earned every month sometimes.
            Rogozin says a lot of things. Even more than necessary. He seems to be saying the right thing, but he is so far from reality that you begin to doubt his ability to perceive reality.
            And the Roskosmos budget will be mainly spent on moving and equipping the cosmodrome, and other matters, and not on salaries. There salaries only for the top executives of the company are huge, including "golden parachutes" - benefits in case of dismissal of top managers.
        2. -1
          April 14 2013 14: 22
          Not all the same, I didn’t imagine the outcome of the specialists from Moscow to Baikonur! Well, if in a place with the whole of Kazakhstan he joins Russia, and then he again draws people by force to drag them here as during a distribution union when they took away passports from people who did not want to go here! But then they gave apartments, and the whole situation was incomparably better !!!
          1. Marek Rozny
            +1
            April 14 2013 14: 31
            Fantasies are not the enticement of specialists in the KZ, but your thoughts that the Kazakhs will become part of Russia. Do not confuse sour with salty. Your desires are clear.
  40. +1
    April 14 2013 11: 53
    Quote: Kazbek
    Do you think Kazakhstan will not achieve anything without you, you are deeply mistaken, the light didn’t converge on Russia. Our government has proved its worth in the 90, and now even more so when there is so much money. In the West, the crisis and they will sell technology with pleasure, and you have already done so much Kaz money. If that Ukrainians help them with the same technology.


    Well, GOOD LUCK, and we'll see ... how will you adapt Western technologies to Soviet standards and alas, YuzhMash will help you a little in this, they have enough of their problems ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      April 14 2013 12: 45
      Kazakhs are a very stubborn nation. And the main goals facing the nation are being achieved 100%. It will be necessary - we will create the best cosmodrome in the world on the basis of the half-dead Baikonur. Without Russia. Only with such an attitude of Russia towards us, do not start talking about "alliance" when you need something. Do you want a visa regime? No problem. Want to build a fortified border with Kazakhstan - for God's sake. If you want to receive our oil, gas and uranium at world prices and in order of priority - please. If you don't want Kazakhs to speak Russian, it's not a problem at all, "I don't understand yours, speak Kazakh." Do you think that it is necessary to support the Slavic organizations in KZ? We will finance Muslim and Turkic organizations in Russia and instill in them our vision of politics. With all that it implies.
      Etc. Nothing personal just business. It's just that your situation is unstable, and it is also unknown who will be there after Putin. And in general, "stop feeding the Russians." By the way, you need to ask Warsaw what the conditions for joining NATO are ...

      Do you want such a scenario? With such an abominable and arrogant attitude of Russians to Kazakhs, such an outcome is quite likely. And I write this, a Eurasian who considers himself a staunch supporter of integration with the post-Soviet world and Russia in particular. Even I already have serious questions - do we need an ally who behaves according to the principle of "nothing personal, only business." We will arrange "business". We are steppe people. Fuck then belated apologies will help. Instead of the Eurasian Union, we will build the Turkic Kaganate. Nothing personal just business. What a hello - such an answer. Run around with your moronic phrase about the fact that Russia has only two allies - the army and the navy, if you really consider it unnecessary to be an ally in relation to someone. Then start building military bases in Omsk and Chelyabinsk. With your attitude, you will receive a new border with a cool neighbor, which is in another military-political bloc, and not the Eurasian Union. China, the EU and the USA will gladly assist the Eurasian Turks in the formation of the Turanian union, as well as in keeping it "in shape". Nothing personal. Business only. We will start taking care of our national interests, just like you. Why do you need allies? You have an army and a navy, along with roads and fools.
  41. 0
    April 14 2013 13: 04
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Even I already have serious questions - do we need such an ally who behaves according to the principle of "nothing personal, only business"


    Well, our concept is understandable, but what do you want?
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      April 14 2013 13: 10
      My desires are no different from the desires of the other Kazakhs and our government - to conduct normal JOINT mutually beneficial work in Baikonur so that this complex does not die. Does this look like blackmail or attacks against Russia?
      1. 0
        April 14 2013 13: 44
        Marek Rozny - Russia will not leave Baikonur; there will simply be a redistribution of 90% from Russian cosmodromes 10% to Baikonur. A joint venture will be created. Zeniths will launch jointly the satellites. Kazakhstan really is spinning under tighten education under pull. Money is not the most important thing here. The most important thing is the intellectual potential!
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          April 14 2013 14: 15
          Even if 10% of launches are left at Baikonur, this is the actual death of the city and the complex. Andrey, a part of the cosmodrome there is already rusting, and after 90% of it becomes unnecessary, all the more it will decay. Do we need a dead city? Of course not. Therefore, ours began to gouge the Russians as soon as the Russian plans to "kill" Baikonur became clear. Therefore, ours demand from Russia to decide on Baikonur - and Russia still cannot clearly answer. Because they don't want to admit ahead of time that they don't want to do anything there at all. This is their right. But in this case, Russia should abandon the current lease agreement for 50 years, so that Kazakhstan can start doing business there. Russia's position on this issue is a dog in the manger. I understand perfectly well that you do not want to think of Russia as the culprit of the situation, but it is so. Kazakhstan has never put a spoke in the wheels of Russia in this area (temporary restrictions on the launch of heptyl missiles after a number of accidents - Andrey, it is in your personal interests so that poison does not fall on your head. And in general, this is the norm when flights are temporarily stopped even of proven Mi-8 helicopters, until they find out what caused the turntable of this brand in a particular case). Russia paid a symbolic price for the lease, and even then not with money, but used rubbish (at first, we were given old "killed" airplanes, taking advantage of the fact that their technical condition was not mentioned in the agreement), and now it is generally just barter by training our cadets in their own military schools.
          In short, if KZ does not defend the future of Baikonur, then he will die in two years.
      2. 0
        April 14 2013 14: 08
        Lord! I see you are ready to give a damn. With these words, you rush a little more and the borders will have to be strengthened. Nothing terrible happens. Kazakhstan wants to get its share of business in space launches - it will! And Russia will not leave Baikonur until 2050, the form of cooperation will change (instead of a lease there may be a joint Kazakh-Ukrainian-Russian venture) and that’s all! The Kazakhstani side’s expenses for the maintenance of the cosmodrome’s infrastructure will simply increase, but how much income will increase is an interesting question. So Russia will certainly not be in a burnout, and Kazakhstan, at a minimum, will have real sovereignty over the spaceport.
  42. 0
    April 14 2013 13: 16
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    My desires are no different from the desires of the other Kazakhs and our government - to conduct normal JOINT mutually beneficial work in Baikonur so that this complex does not die. Does this look like blackmail or attacks against Russia?


    That is, speaking briefly "Only business and nothing personal." And how are you different from us?
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      April 14 2013 13: 29
      where in this message you saw "only business and nothing personal" ??? I specially highlighted the word "joint".
  43. 0
    April 14 2013 13: 41
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    where in this message you saw "only business and nothing personal" ??? I specially highlighted the word "joint".


    Russia and Kazakhstan have agreed on the phased withdrawal of a number of cosmodrome objects from the Russian lease and their joint use by both countries, Izvestia writes, citing a statement by the deputy head of Roscosmos, Sergei Savelyev.

    "We are talking about the phased withdrawal of Baikonur facilities from the lease of Russia and the prospect of joint use of the complex. I want to emphasize that there is no talk of any withdrawal of Russia from Baikonur, new ways of cooperation are being developed," Saveliev said.

    The deputy head of Roskosmos stressed that, in addition to the joint use of the cosmodrome facilities, Russian specialists will train their Kazakh colleagues. At the same time, Kazakhstan will not interfere with the launch of Proton carrier rockets from Baikonur.

    "The issue of the number of Proton launches in 2013 has been practically agreed upon, we are awaiting an official paper from the Kazakh side. We asked to revise the parameters specified in the decree of the Government of Kazakhstan dated December 28 last year. In that document, the number of Proton launches is limited to 12 That is lower than our needs. Kazakhstani partners have met us halfway, "Saveliev added, noting that earlier it was planned to gradually reduce the launches of these missiles until the closure of the Proton program in 2020.

    It is assumed that the launch complex for Zenit carrier rockets can be taken out of the Russian lease first. According to Savelyev, if earlier ideas were discussed only about the financial participation of Kazakhstan in the program for launching Zenits, now it is about the participation of Kazakhstani specialists in preparing the launches. At the same time, both states will bear the costs of maintaining the complex on an equal footing.
    Savelyev also recalled that in March 2013, a specially created intergovernmental commission on Baikonur should develop a new agreement on the use of the cosmodrome.


    More details: http://tengrinews.kz/progress/rossiya-peredast-kazahstanu-ryad-obyektov-baykonur


    a-228524 /

    The Baikonur training ground is primarily needed by our missile enterprises. They produce very complex and often secret equipment, on which, in particular, the defense capability of our state depends. What side to attract your specialists there?
    You spoke there about cooperation with Ukraine. You are welcome. The first complex that Russia is refusing to rent is Zenitovsky. So please, establish cooperation with them. Let's see how much they want to share their secrets with you
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      April 14 2013 14: 00
      And what did you want to say? I did not understand your position.
      In addition, let me remind you that Savelyev does not say here that in a couple of years the main launches will be transferred to Vostochny and Baikonur will be out of work. The Kazakhs understand this and therefore have become more active in the issue of the future of the city and the cosmodrome. We care what happens to this place. We see that Russia is going to close the cosmodrome. And using the agreement on a 50-year lease, it can stupidly block any attempt to reanimate the cosmodrome and the city. At the same time, Russia itself shouts: "They are driving us out!" Although neither ordinary Kazakhs nor the government have such nonsense in their heads. Roskosmos is masking its retreat to Vostochny with smoke. In general, Roscosmos succeeded - the Russians are convinced that the Kazakhs are really driving the Russians out of Baikonur, which does not even correspond to a drop of reality. Roscosmos, for the sake of a desire to steer large financial flows for the construction of a new strategic facility, easily went on to deteriorate relations between Russians and Kazakhstanis, exposing the Kazakhs as oppressors and offenders. Not to mention that Roskosmos, with its idea of ​​relocating the cosmodrome, actually framed the security of Russia - a new cosmodrome a stone's throw from the Chinese border guards. In some tactical detail, the Russians benefit from this transfer, but strategically, they worsen the situation several times if they decide that the Chinese border is safer than the outback of the Kazakh steppe, and the Chinese are more loyal than the Kazakhs. Anyway. Now these are really your problems. And we will begin to deal with the abandoned Baikonur. Moreover, there are no pastures, as some "sages" advise us here, this is a semi-desert. So we simply have no other alternative. We will develop the cosmodrome ourselves. You yourself give birth to a competitor. After all, frankly speaking, space is not the main thing for Kazakhs, but for the complex to work and the city does not turn into ruins. Well, since such a booze has gone, we will be engaged in space.
      1. +4
        April 14 2013 14: 23
        SVP67, good day! You yourself have already sold all the secrets - look at China. Doesn’t resemble anything? Launching sites, rocket launchers. And Korea (the first degree of the Angara), France (Sea launch and launch vehicles), the USA (RD-180 or NK-33)? But with us in any? Although I think Pytin and Nazarbayev will decide everything - too much, beyond space, depends on our countries for the construction of a new Union Union. Marek writes correctly - for us, not so much space is needed, how much is the vital activity of the city and the cosmodrome.
        Sincerely. hi
  44. +3
    April 14 2013 14: 09
    Well, I read komenty mostly mutual srach. Yes, the authorities need to decide whether they need a union or not. If they need, they need WORK at the philistine level (agitation, propaganda, etc.), but if not, then there are no questions. It seems to me that Baikonur was going to die USSR, Russia will go to its cosmodromes, Kazakhstan also does not need to maintain such infrastructure (we can at best have one launch complex and that is a big question) Maybe it is time for our authorities to start some production in Baikonur so that people would not suffer after leaving Russia with a move in search of a living. And the Kazakhs, the supporters of the union, should still think whether the union is needed? No Russians, they have the main Slavic union Russia Ukraine Belarus and through the stumbling block of Kazakhstan. Maybe I’m mistaken, but such a thought is constant in all comments on all topics, and then the Kazakhs begin and we, and we, do us a favor, okay, and you (maybe it's time to think of knocking on that door?). And so good neighborly relations, without our participation in building an empire, I am for it, and empires are always wars, blood and interference in the affairs of others, this is at our level. Well, at the top there may be other relations, another vision of the current situation, perhaps they understand us better and know more and will not make mistakes (think so, decide for yourself whether or not to have it).
    1. -1
      April 14 2013 17: 21
      you are right, the Baikonur will die, the Russian people will be taken out (there will probably be a federal target program) and you are in a campaign with Marek Rozny with Jews, French
  45. +1
    April 14 2013 14: 14
    Yes, I’m talking about
    - missile technologies are often supernova and secret technologies that are inevitably associated with the country's defense capabilities. Admission to which citizens of another state is simply not desirable.
    - rocketry is not produced on the territory of Kazakhstan. And something tells me that it will not be produced.
    So the position of Russia, which is gradually "winding down" its presence at Baikonur, is understandable.

    You want to conduct "joint" activities to launch Russian missiles. The question is, why do you need this? Do you think that Atlases and Arians will be brought to you for launches? I think no. Most likely, after the departure of our specialists, Chinese specialists will appear there, who will also not launch anything there, but they will study everything very carefully in order to recreate
    1. Marek Rozny
      +1
      April 14 2013 14: 20
      We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR. This is our national goal. What place Moscow and Roscosmos thinks is not clear to me. Either this new spaceport shows that there will be no Union, or they are simply unrealistically stupid, spending huge money on a gamble that will automatically become meaningless in a single state.
      1. avt
        +2
        April 14 2013 15: 34
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR. This is our national goal.

        How is that? It seems that there is already a CIS. It’s like in a gypsy joke - Fruza, why do you wash children, come here we will make new ones. laughing There weren’t enough salaries and posts in the CIS, we also decided to make posts for managers with a foot stomping. You’ll write the papers about Euros, then we’ll talk. And then we heard these tales about the renewed union with a hunchback, but what the union state with Belarus is still no one can answer. But do not frighten the Turkic Kaganate, dear, already scared and through the blood, you only saw this on TV. This is not about the Hercules steppes to talk about the processes on a global scale. Engage in concrete business, so at least make a platform for Zenith for yourself, you look and people will reach for you.
      2. Earthman
        0
        April 14 2013 15: 34
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        What place Moscow and Roscosmos thinks is not clear to me. Either this new spaceport shows that there will be no Union, or they are simply unrealistically stupid, spending huge money on a gamble that will automatically become meaningless in a single state.

        but Moscow does not think. Moscow went to the TC only because of economic considerations for its own benefit. it will go to Eurasia if only Eurasia calls itself Russia. and not Russia will become Eurasia.
        1. avt
          0
          April 14 2013 16: 06
          Quote: Earthman
          TS Moscow went only because of economic considerations for its own benefit. it will go to Eurasia if only Eurasia calls itself Russia. and not Russia will become Eurasia.

          Yeah, but Nazarbayev and Lukashenko at a loss? Well, knowing what the Old Man is doing, well, no one can prove to me that he carried a spoon by the mouth. For Eurasia, well, except for the Gumilev books, no one really said anything specific or said anything, not to mention legal documents requiring anything .A moan about that that Russia does not want to become Eurasia request I didn’t hear that Kazakhstan decided to rename. You’ll bewildered doves yourself figure out what you want, only specifically, but for now let the customs union stay, well, when the idea is beautiful, so that your head swirls with happiness and attracts great things, then we'll talk. so far only business and you and us and nothing personal. Yes, and real allies request only the army and the navy. Even the daddy - a member of the CSTO, according to the constitution, will not send troops abroad and did not fit in with the Ossetians, although we live in a "united union state", this is to the question of the fourth place of the Kazakhs. Well, decide to resist with the Turkic kaganate and darlings request Do not exact. God forbid, of course, it’s not knocking on the clave, we do not know this on the Internet.
      3. 0
        April 15 2013 13: 28
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        We are talking about the creation of the Union, a common confederate state on the basis of the main republics of the ex-USSR

        Under the current economic systems (they are basically the same in all republics), the confederation, if it takes place of course, will be a stillborn child. But this is not what I want to ask and talk about.
        What do you think, Marat, what will happen if, suddenly, after a year or two, Russia, headed by a new leader, returns to the socialist idea, carries out large-scale nationalization, changes the very essence of the economic system? Is it possible that there will be a Eurasian Union, a Customs Union, if we change the whole legislative framework and constitution?
  46. +1
    April 14 2013 14: 30
    Quote: Kasym
    You already sold all the secrets yourself


    So what’s the matter, you buy, and then use at your own discretion ... you, that someone is interfering with this
  47. Earthman
    -1
    April 14 2013 15: 23
    Russians here sold many campaigns to China without asking anyone
  48. +4
    April 14 2013 15: 31
    It is very painful to see battles on the forum on an issue that was decided long ago by the "top". I think the leadership in Kazakhstan and Russia have already decided on the issue, given the visit of VVP to the construction of a new cosmodrome, conclusions can be drawn.
    Ordinary people, both here and in Russia, are somehow "purple" on this question, it is worth excluding the truth of the inhabitants of Baikonur itself - they care, but there are few of them in the total mass.
    An offer to all the rabid patriots on both sides, but let's go and plant a tree in the yard. I think it will be much more useful than shaking the air on an issue that has long been resolved, albeit not fair for someone.
  49. Phoenix bird
    +1
    April 14 2013 15: 41
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Kazakhs are a very stubborn nation. And the main goals that face the nation achieve 100%. It will be necessary - we will create on the basis of the half-dead Baikonur the best spaceport in the world. Without Russia.


    Stubborn. That is yes. Only more in his eastern ignorance. Well, first create a couple - three institutions. equal, say, MTI in America. Train thousands of one hundred cool engineers. Create metallurgical, composite, ......... and a bunch of other industries.
    South Korea and Brazil tried, but they could not do without the help of Russia. And these countries are far ahead of Kazakhstan in terms of industrial development.
    1. -2
      April 14 2013 15: 58
      Stubborn. That is yes. Only more in his eastern ignorance. Well, first create a couple - three institutions. equal, say, MTI in America. Train thousands of one hundred cool engineers. Create metallurgical, composite, ......... and a bunch of other industries.
      It’s 50 years of persistent tetanic work and the thing is in the hat! smile
    2. Marek Rozny
      0
      April 15 2013 01: 36
      Wah wah wah! Well, where are we, eastern ignoramuses to enlightened white people.
      And if without reciprocal banter, then:
      a) the emphasis on creating a strong modern educational center in Kazakhstan has already been made. take an interest in the Internet Nazarbayev-University. a very ambitious project that already really exists and is conducting its work.
      b) in addition, Kazakhstan is making the most ambitious "intervention" of its students in the best foreign universities. There are more Kazakh students at MIT or Cambridge than all other students from the CIS combined. The state pays for the tuition of thousands of students under the Bolashak program. The emphasis is on technical and scientific specialties. so the advice on "train engineers" is belated. We have been preparing the critical mass for a long time.
      c) Metallurgy and chemistry in the KZ at a fairly high level. Such is the specificity of Kazakhstani industry and Kazakhstani science.

      Japan 100 years ago was considered a country of lazy people. 50 years ago, no one would have believed that they would be able to advance ahead in world science. 30 years ago, South Korea and Singapore were semi-peasant states. 20 years ago, China was a country with a primitive industry. 10 years ago, Kazakhstan was a completely impoverished state.
  50. Phoenix bird
    0
    April 14 2013 16: 07
    Quote: concept1
    It’s 50 years of persistent tetanic work and the thing is in the hat!

    It's in the bag, and it ends like North Korea. All resources are being spent on the rocket and space complex. The country will be ruined at the same time. For there should be no distortions in the economy. And the "missile load" can be borne by countries with a population of 70 million or more. And as soon as oil runs out in Kazakhstan, the country will return to a more familiar agricultural way.
    1. -2
      April 14 2013 16: 27
      And there is. But still they won’t understand and believe you! No education no medicine! first you need to learn how to extract oil yourself!
    2. Marek Rozny
      +2
      April 15 2013 00: 29
      What and how we will develop has already been planned for a long time. We are moving according to plan. We have known since 1997 what and how we will do in our country in the next decades. If you are interested in economics, then see how Kazakhstan is progressively developing its sector. At the same time, work has been going on for a long time to diversify the national income - from the raw material sector (for which we were sharpened by the Soviet economy) we are leaving for new industries. Plants in Kazakhstan are launched every other day. 20 years ago in Kazakhstan, you would not have been able to buy anything from local goods in a store except a loaf of bread and a bottle of vodka. Our KZ did not produce TVs, cars, or even mayonnaise. Now I can buy almost any basic commodity of Kazakhstani production - household appliances, food products, cars, etc. Space is another topic that needs to be addressed in order to earn "non-resource" money. And what about "the ratio of the number of inhabitants to the rocket load", did you invent it at random? Where did this figure come from?
      Z.Y. It is very strange to hear ridicule about the raw material basis of the Kazakhstani economy from a Russian. You might think that the basis of the Russian budget is the export of non-primary goods ... We even have an industrialization program in place.
  51. +1
    April 14 2013 16: 54
    Once upon a time, the rice eaters also laughed at the Koreans, and what do you think of us as weak as them? They seem to be smart people, and there they are. Roscosmos steals money, and if the Kazakhs come, it will be difficult to steal, or worse, they want a share, so yours made a fuss. You should be happy, but you are tearing your ass off for people like Serdyukov, you have created bottomless shit for their pockets. Moscow was not built right away, and we also achieved a lot, although you shouted the same thing in the 90s, where would you go without us, and that we live worse than you or graze cattle without they all moved to yurts. They haven’t really screwed you up anymore, and they haven’t lagged behind in the pace of development. And there’s no need to scare us with North Korea, if you survived in the 90s, then even more so now. If you want Eastern, just say so and don’t accuse us of betrayal, you yourself didn’t do anything until ’98, and then we didn’t care about this space, they saved it for you, and you would still be ashamed of accusing us of betrayal.
    1. +4
      April 14 2013 17: 07
      Quote: Kazbek
      They seem to be smart people, but then again. Roscosmos is stealing money, but if the Kazakhs come, it will be difficult to steal,

      It’s just that both our people and yours will steal. Where can they get in trouble for everyone?
      Are you all honest and don’t steal?
    2. -1
      April 15 2013 14: 20
      The USSR and the USA civilized the Koreans. Because they opposed, fought for influence, for authority. And in a unipolar world, it’s easier to divide you into zones of influence, the strong have the main thing, those who are weaker also have a piece, so that they don’t get too offended.))
  52. Phoenix bird
    0
    April 14 2013 17: 12
    What's the question? Invest your money in modernizing Baikonur. Russia will be able to participate in the modernization of the cosmodrome on a commercial basis. Do you just want to receive money for rent without investing your own? The cosmodrome is yours.
    1. Marek Rozny
      +3
      April 15 2013 00: 37
      I see you are completely off topic...
      a) Kazakhstan cannot invest in Baikonur now, because The cosmodrome is under Russian lease for 50 years. The point is that if Russia continues to neglect investments in Baikonur, then it is necessary to change some points of the agreement so that the Kazakhs can do this.
      b) Rent money does not play any role for us at all. There is a funny figure, which in fact does not even cross the Kazakh-Russian border, but remains in Russia due to the training of Kazakh cadets in Russian universities (plus, for this, money is also written off for Russia’s rental of other military facilities and training grounds in KZ).

      Is the situation more or less clear now? The Kazakhs propose to eliminate rent altogether and allow them to invest in the spaceport. Russia, on the other hand, is not eager to do this, because... she needs a “dead” mothballed Baikonur so that it does not become a competitor to the new Russian cosmodrome.
  53. +3
    April 14 2013 17: 17
    I read the comments. It became very sad. How did it happen that the fraternal peoples now do nothing but spit bile at each other...
    Especially the phrase “Nothing personal, just business”... such business should be done with others, but not with allies! That's why they are allies, closest comrades!
    Russians, dear ones, where do you get so much negativity towards the Republic of Kazakhstan? For what? What have we done to deserve this attitude towards ourselves? Did we leave you somewhere?
    All these decisions and calculations “at the top” are one thing. But where does so much negativity from people come from?
    I was a supporter of integration in the territory of the former Soviet Union. But after you read all this, this arrogant attitude, all this “Great Russian chauvinism”, you begin to involuntarily think about it. Is it too late? It seems that we are already too different to start all over again.
    1. +3
      April 14 2013 17: 32
      I fully support you, on the forum they are ready to rip your throat out, there is some kind of hatred towards each other. And here everyone is sharing the skin that has long been divided and we ordinary citizens of both countries have nothing to do with this, and we are neither cold nor hot from who launches what kind of rocket. No offense to Kazakhstanis, but we (including our local forums) are much less concerned about the increase in the retirement age of our women to 63 years, but we talk about “high” matters from both sides. There is no need to create rabid nationalism between neighbors, we are all in the same boat, good luck to everyone and love :-)
      1. Marek Rozny
        +2
        April 15 2013 00: 14
        Kirill, which Kazakh here is promoting nationalism? Point your finger at a specific message. But insults in open and veiled form against the Kazakhs from the Russians are already Kamaz and a small cart - and we must be assimilated, and we are ungrateful, and we are prostitutes, and we must stand in a “pose” in front of the Russians, and in general our destiny is to herd sheep. The administrators do not notice this point-blank, but for a short phrase in Kazakh about the fact that I am a citizen of Kazakhstan, not Israel, which I wrote to demonstrate my knowledge of the Kazakh language, the administration slapped me with a 6th warning.
        Don’t tell the Kazakhs about nationalism, but your neighbors. Otherwise, they think that nationalism is when you want to save your city from destruction, and when you write obscene things about another nation, then this is a normal thing.
    2. -3
      April 14 2013 17: 33
      what kind of allies you are (along with your brothers), the war showed 080808
      1. Marek Rozny
        -2
        April 14 2013 23: 38
        This is not a war, but an adventure. Kazakhstan does not and will not recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Just like it does not recognize the independence of Chechnya and Kosovo. Why should we adhere to double standards in politics? In addition, NOBODY attacked Allied territory. It was Russian troops who invaded foreign territory. And without any coordination, of course, with Minsk or Astana. Based on what clause of the CSTO treaty should Kazakhstan and Belarus invade the territory of Georgia?
    3. avt
      +3
      April 14 2013 17: 52
      Quote: arseke
      I read the comments. It became very sad. How did it happen that the fraternal peoples now do nothing but spit bile at each other...

      They received a good vaccination in the 90s, well, as I already said, people who were brought up in a community that was called the Soviet people, who lived in a Country that you contemptuously call the Soviet people, are ending physically.
      Quote: arseke
      Russians, dear ones, where do you get so much negativity towards the Republic of Kazakhstan?

      I can’t speak for Russians, as a Russian I don’t have any negativity, I was born in the USSR.
      Quote: arseke
      "Nothing personal just business"..

      Wake up, dear! For more than twenty years, EVERYONE has been living under capitalism, but they famously turn on “brotherly” notes when necessary. I repeated and repeat, loot is not a unifying idea, even though the classics argued that politics is a concentrated economy.
      Quote: arseke
      But after you read all this, this arrogant attitude, all this “Great Russian chauvinism”, you begin to involuntarily think about it. Is it too late? It seems that we are already too different to start all over again.
      And don't talk. Maybe you’ll start building the Turkic Khaganate right away? But why, when the fraternal Kyrgyz people went into trouble and the Elbasy did not stand up for a relative, but he rushed not to Kazakhstan but to Moscow and sits here? And he doesn’t mention any more about Asian Switzerland. Well, when the Kyrgyz massacred the Uzbeks, why didn’t they separate them and they had to transfer troops from the Great Russian chauvinist country to Kant? Thank God one kind was enough and I didn’t have to separate them for adults. Well, if we are COLLABORATES, why weren’t there any Kazakh warriors nearby? So I think like this. Sovereignty has been declared - behave like an adult. If we unite for economic reasons, there is no need to push for pity, defend your interests and do not threaten with political antics like we will raise all the Turks here. If you want political and civilizational unity, it is more difficult here, you need to look for an idea, but one that would make people believe, accepted and if necessary, they would go to death for her as in 41. And so far, one artistic whistle is observed, to the sound of which someone is chopping sour cabbage and preparing a warm chair with a frame for his buttocks.
      1. +4
        April 14 2013 18: 05
        They received a good vaccination in the 90s, well, as I already said, people who were brought up in a community that was called the Soviet people, who lived in a Country that you contemptuously call the Soviet people, are ending physically.

        You misunderstood me, not contemptuously, far from contemptuously. Although I am young, I understand that this was a great country and that it was inhabited by a great, united and good people.

        Wake up, dear! For more than twenty years EVERYONE has been living under capitalism, but they famously turn on “brotherly” notes when necessary. I repeated and repeat, loot is not a unifying idea, even though the classics argued that politics is a concentrated economy

        That's it! We don't have to be like everyone else! After all, there are values ​​that cannot be measured or bought with money!

        In my words, I meant specifically Kazakh-Russian relations, without mixing in other countries.
        As for the events that you listed, I can’t say much, so I won’t.
      2. Marek Rozny
        +2
        April 15 2013 00: 00
        Quote: avt
        But why, when the fraternal Kyrgyz people went into trouble and the Elbasy did not stand up for a relative, but he rushed not to Kazakhstan but to Moscow and sits here?

        Why should we protect an unsuccessful ruler from his own people? We were supposed to crush the Kyrgyz with tanks so that the demagogue Akaev would remain in power? If people in Moscow go against Putin, how will you react to the entry of Kazakh troops into Moscow to fight the demonstrators?

        Quote: avt
        Well, when the Kyrgyz massacred the Uzbeks, why didn’t they separate them and they had to transfer troops from the Great Russian chauvinist country to Kant? Thank God one kind was enough and I didn’t have to separate them for adults. Well, if we are COLLABORATES, why weren’t there any Kazakh warriors nearby?

        a) Troops of CSTO countries may be deployed in another CSTO country if its territory is attacked by a third party. The CSTO is not an organization that interferes in internal conflicts.
        b) The Russian battalion of paratroopers was sent not to Osh, but to Kant. And not in order to separate the Kyrgyz from the Uzbeks, but to protect their own Russian military base if unrest suddenly spreads to it.

        You either have no idea about the events in Osh and the goals of the CSTO, or you just want to just dip the Kazakhs in guano without any reason.

        Quote: avt
        Sovereignty has been declared - behave like an adult.
        Let me remind you that it was Russia that declared its independence before us, and not Kazakhstan. Secondly, it has long been announced about unification into the Eurasian Union. TS is only the first phase.

        Quote: avt
        And so far, one artistic whistle is observed, to the sound of which someone is chopping sour cabbage and preparing a warm chair with a frame for his buttocks.

        And I’ll tell you who chops the cabbage. These are officials from Roscosmos. They made very big money for the relocation of the cosmodrome. It’s not about Kazakhstan, it’s just that Roscosmos members lobbied for a business project. And ordinary Russians were deceived, provoking hysteria towards Kazakhstan, which did not even think about raising rents, or intensifying cooperation with third countries, or reducing the Russian presence at Baikonur.
  54. +5
    April 14 2013 17: 26
    Quote: concept1
    And there is. But still they won’t understand and believe you! No education no medicine! first you need to learn how to extract oil yourself!

    Look at the Russian education system and at medicine, if it’s so bad then no one is stopping you, go and get treatment. A stipend for chickens is a joke, a graduate student gets 2500 rubles a month! But here, if you’re so smart in college, they get that much. A master’s degree here gets 8000 rubles a month , and if according to Bolashak, then generally 1000 dollars. Our students abroad study for free at the best universities in the world, so don’t worry, you can go without you, we’ll pump the oil ourselves.
  55. 0
    April 14 2013 17: 27
    Marek Rozny- Even if 10% of launches are left at Baikonur, this is the actual death of the city and the complex. Andrey, a part of the cosmodrome there is already rusting, and after 90% of it becomes unnecessary, all the more it will decay. Do we need a dead city? Of course not. Therefore, ours began to gouge the Russians as soon as the Russian plans to "kill" Baikonur became clear. Therefore, ours demand from Russia to decide on Baikonur - and Russia still cannot clearly answer. Because they don't want to admit ahead of time that they don't want to do anything there at all. This is their right. But in this case, Russia should abandon the current lease agreement for 50 years, so that Kazakhstan can start doing business there. Russia's position on this issue is a dog in the manger. I understand perfectly well that you do not want to think of Russia as the culprit of the situation, but it is so. Kazakhstan has never put a spoke in the wheels of Russia in this area (temporary restrictions on the launch of heptyl missiles after a number of accidents - Andrey, it is in your personal interests so that poison does not fall on your head. And in general, this is the norm when flights are temporarily stopped even of proven Mi-8 helicopters, until they find out what caused the turntable of this brand in a particular case). Russia paid a symbolic price for the lease, and even then not with money, but used rubbish (at first, we were given old "killed" airplanes, taking advantage of the fact that their technical condition was not mentioned in the agreement), and now it is generally just barter by training our cadets in their own military schools.
    In short, if KZ does not defend the future of Baikonur, then he will die in two years


    No matter what, Baikonur will lose its importance. But Kazakhstan itself wants to get away from rent. When this happens, then automatically all responsibility for both the complex and the city will fall on Kazakhstan. request
    1. Marek Rozny
      +4
      April 14 2013 23: 32
      Kazakhstan is ready to remove the rent from the Russian side and independently invest in the city of Baikonur (as in an ordinary Kazakh city), as well as bear part of the costs of maintaining the cosmodrome. In return, Russia must give guarantees that it will not curtail its main activities at the cosmodrome and will begin cooperation in the space sector with us (currently this means Kazakh investments in space projects in exchange for the transfer of certain technologies and/or joint income from commercial launches). We are ready to discuss any option for cooperation with Russia, the main thing is that the city and the cosmodrome operate at a sufficient volume. This is our official position.
      And Russia’s position is the following - the transfer of almost all launches to the new cosmodrome and the actual cessation of the activities of the Baikonur facility, which will inevitably entail the abrupt death of the city, which is “tailored” for space activities. There is little point in developing a regular economy; the city is specifically located in a location that is not very convenient from an economic/production/agricultural/transport point of view. Very roughly speaking, a city in the middle of the desert, far from the regional center and generally significant settlements. And it would be okay if the Russians simply “left” Baikonur, but they will still cling to the signed 50-year lease agreement and, thus, simply will not let anyone in to resuscitate the city and the cosmodrome. The Kazakhs signed this agreement when there was no talk of transferring their main activities to the Vostochny cosmodrome! How did we know that Russia would play such a trick on us?
      Imagine, I’m renting a cottage from you. Moreover, out of old friendship, for a symbolic amount, which I don’t even pay, but provide some services that are beneficial for myself, for example, I gave you a 5% discount card in my store (and, accordingly, linking you to my own store). Everything is top notch. In a couple of years, I propose that you sign a contract to lease the cottage for 50 years. You willingly agree, and what landlord wouldn’t agree to a long-term contract? And then it turns out that for some reason I am not going to live in it, repair it, or simply keep it in good condition. This will naturally lead in a short time to the dilapidation of the rented building and its destruction. You understand what will happen to the house if no one lives there for 50 years and no one takes care of it. Screw your property. And at the same time, I, as a tenant, have every right not to let you into your own house on the basis of a concluded lease agreement for 50 years. At least kill yourself. What will your actions be? Keep silent and be content with a 5% discount in my store, waiting for the destruction of your house? And who in this situation acted, to put it mildly, not very decently?
      1. +2
        April 15 2013 14: 38
        How did we know that Russia would play such a trick on us?
        I think they knew that the cosmodrome is a strategic facility with secret technologies and the transfer of activities was a matter of time. This happened. You can, of course, be indignant and “sprinkle ashes on your head,” but the situation cannot be corrected. You agree that no one (on both sides) will use radical means: leaving the Customs Union, placing NATO bases, Russia will also block something for us, etc. In previous posts, I tried to convey to you the idea that no one will share such huge money that is “circulating” in the space industry. Yes, here is a thought through the comment. The USSR no longer exists; commerce and its own oligarchs are everywhere. We have an aerospace agency, they even gave them money, let them do something, but the government must also have a plan B, and this is the social adaptation of the residents of the citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan after Russia’s “withdrawal” from Baikonur, because You can’t throw your citizens in the middle of the desert.
        P.S. Where did you live in the Orenburg region?
        1. Marek Rozny
          +2
          April 15 2013 20: 20
          Nobody talked about moving the cosmodrome in those years; Russia presented us with a fait accompli AFTER the signing of the 50-year lease agreement.
          if Russia does not want to use Baikonur anymore, then there is no need to pretend that the root cause of the friction is the Kazakhs, who are supposedly driving Russia out of Baikonur. If Russia had not built a new main spaceport, then the space topic would still be XNUMXth on the list of tasks for the Kazakh government. and now it is necessary to take measures to return control of Baikonur and conduct activities on it. in fact, Russia is creating its own competitor in this industry. Of course, we have to stomp and stomp to the Russian level of cosmonautics, but given Astana’s obstinacy in achieving its goals, we can confidently assume that this sector will now develop rapidly. with or without the Russians. reasons for this: a) to prevent the destruction of the city; b) discover a new source of non-resource national income; c) to spite Russia. To this end, Kazakhstan is negotiating with all parties that can provide KZ with the necessary scientific and technical benefits and is training national personnel in space specialties abroad. This year, by the way, a satellite production plant will open in Kazakhstan (a joint venture with France). There will, of course, be mistakes and wrong approaches, but this topic will be brought to the end. Moreover, I wouldn’t be surprised if astronautics is raised in KZ even earlier than, for example, the dairy sector.

          ZY Born in Akbulak, lived in Orenburg, Novotroitsk, then again in Orenburg.
      2. +2
        April 15 2013 19: 03
        It would be good if we agreed on some acceptable option, but it’s so difficult to beat a blow with a whip. You lived in Russia, is there really such a public opinion there as here at VO?
        1. Earthman
          +1
          April 15 2013 20: 32
          Yes, Marat, in the Russian Federation there are the same jingoistic patriots as in VO.????

          Just not to give anything to anyone and to present a treacherous ally as TURKists, Westerners, simpletons
        2. Marek Rozny
          +2
          April 15 2013 21: 31
          Chauvinism in Russia was also common during Soviet times. In addition, they are sincerely convinced that before the Russians, the Kazakhs had no idea about hygiene, writing, medicine, science, etc. For them, all the steppe inhabitants - Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs - are a nation that has done nothing but ride horses and howl its entire history.
          Now the attitude towards foreigners in Russia has become worse. However, Russian regions differ greatly from each other in terms of xenophobia. In Siberia, the Urals, and the Volga region, such sentiments are less pronounced. In European Russia it is stronger. The country is very heterogeneous in this regard. There are a lot of people who really believe that Kazakhs ride camels and donkeys in Russia. I often go on business trips to the Russian Federation, sometimes my interlocutors simply shock me with their pearls about the “many years of civil war in Kazakhstan”, “Is Kazakhstan larger or smaller than our region?”, “Are there Russians in Kazakhstan?”, “How long will Karimov remain?” To govern Kazakhstan?”, “Why did you open an American military base?” etc. Russians are not interested in Kazakhstan at all. Russian media rarely say anything about us. And if they do say it, it’s usually all sorts of crap in the “OBS” style. Most Russians imagine KZ approximately this way: “Nazarbayev, marijuana, Baikonur, oppression of Russians.”

          The main negative was formed in the 90s as a result of two events - an increased flow of migrants from KZ, who, according to the old law on refugees and internally displaced persons, declared that they were refugees, in the hope of receiving a free apartment and financial support, as well as thanks to the playing out of the theme of “protecting compatriots in the CIS” during countless political elections. Almost every gubernatorial and presidential candidate stated in a separate paragraph that in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and the Baltic states, Russians are being killed and raped, and he, as an elected politician, will beat up his unreasonable neighbors. People hawal. The slogans were forgotten, but the aftertaste remained. Many Russians believe that Russians in KZ live as slaves, or at least as second-class citizens. They have been taught this for a decade in all election races. Zhirik alone told so many lies that he himself probably won’t be able to remember all the crap he said and wrote about Kazakhstan in those years - there was so much of it.
          Plus, the Russian belief that they fed us constantly comes into play. Solzhenitsyn began to hammer this idea into the heads of Russians. In the 90s, he was almost a demigod in Russia; his phrases instantly became cliches and became popular among the people. He played a gigantic role in the collapse of the USSR. After Solzhenitsyn in Russia, the attitude of Russians towards the Union State changed dramatically. From the party official to the bus driver, everyone said “stop feeding the non-Russians,” “we need to return the Russian lands in Kazakhstan,” and so on.
          But! Why shouldn’t you worry too much about Russian nationalism? Russians are a nation that constantly rushes from one extreme to another. Yesterday they tried to have a personal Georgian friend, today they consider them enemies. The day before yesterday they considered Americans enemies, yesterday they considered them friends, today they considered them enemies again. It is among the steppe people that the “enemy-friend” vectors have not changed for centuries, but among the Russians, foreign policy and “people’s” national preferences are completely unpredictable. They themselves never know who will be on their list of friends and enemies tomorrow. They managed to become friends and quarrel with the entire planet several times. Unpredictability is the key formula for Russian behavior on a personal level. The inability to think several years ahead is the second problem of Russians. If a Chinese logically imagines what will happen to his country in 50 years, a Kazakh more or less sees his country in 10-20 years, a Russian has no idea what will happen to his country next year. And this applies not only to ordinary Vanya, but also to the Russian authorities.
          1. Earthman
            0
            April 15 2013 22: 14
            My teacher (Russian, Omsk) said how she went to Moscow in the USSR. As she was asked, where is Kazakhstan? In the USSR itself, which many here want to return in its entirety. She herself was dumbfounded, unexpected, because we read books from the M. publishing house: Nedra, Nauka, and others. It seems that all absolutely intelligent people and all academics live in European Russia. But alas, this is the Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors.

            There must be a State Department and a conspiracy, about which many Russians like to swear with bricks, a time bomb was planted long ago, back in the years of Kukuruznik.
            Or because the leaders of the Indestructible Union were people with a 3rd grade education?!
            How proud many became, forgetting about yesterday’s brotherhood.
            1. -3
              April 16 2013 04: 53
              Quote: Earthman
              As she was asked, where is Kazakhstan?

              In kindergarten, I might not have been able to find Russia on the map.
              Quote: Earthman
              which many here want to return in its entirety.
              - why in full? You can leave the southern steppes and a couple of rivers where you can drive your cattle. It was not you who developed such a large country! I understand if Kazakhstan as it stands was an ancient civilization that for some reason joined Russia.No.
              Quote: Earthman
              a time bomb was planted back in the years of the Corn Man.

              And not just the Corn Man. The USSR built many primitive countries, I thought they would be allies, who are now mucking around against us and consider themselves a full-fledged nation.
              1. Earthman
                -1
                April 16 2013 08: 10
                Quote: Masterzserg
                In kindergarten, I might not have been able to find Russia on the map.

                But you are a b_dlo-troll, however. Answer essentially. The teacher communicated with the local population.
                Quote: Masterzserg
                why in full? You can leave the southern steppes and a couple of rivers where you can drive your cattle. It was not you who developed such a large country! I understand if Kazakhstan in its current form was an ancient civilization that for some reason joined Russia. No.

                I understand that you are stupid. If you don’t know the people, their culture and history, don’t bother with your bell tower.
                Quote: Masterzserg
                And not just the Corn Man. The USSR built many primitive countries, I thought they would be allies, who are now mucking around against us and consider themselves a full-fledged nation.

                None of the current countries is making noise against the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation itself is mostly to blame
          2. Kurbashi
            +2
            April 16 2013 08: 15
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Most Russians imagine KZ approximately this way: “Nazarbayev, marijuana, Baikonur, oppression of Russians.”

            Marek, you killed me with this pearl laughing Not in the eye, but in the eye... And jokes aside, this is not the first call and things are getting worse and worse... Without normal contact between people, politicians will not really achieve anything.
  56. +4
    April 14 2013 19: 06
    Do you think the Kazakhs really need space, we just don’t need a dead city. What do you suggest sitting and waiting for it to stretch its legs or already thinking about its future. The city will not live without a cosmodrome and we have no choice but to invest money in it. If The Russians will not want to, we will look for other ways out of the situation, but we will not let the city die, just as we did not let the Aral die. The Kazakhs are not fools either.
  57. -7
    April 15 2013 14: 12
    The nomads are showing off again!))))) It’s like giving a homeless person a house, a car and all the benefits, and then he will show off this in front of you, saying how cool he is. It's funny, honestly. If Russia leaves Baikonur, the Americans will take it from you, and they will find a way to generally take it away from you, although in fact from us. While you have Baikonur, which the Russian Federation needs, you are still alive, if God forbid, you will have to drive cattle through the fields again, while China and the United States will enjoy the benefits developed by the USSR on the territory of what is now Kazakhstan. hi
    1. +5
      April 15 2013 16: 14
      Valery, good afternoon! Well, this comment doesn’t make you look good. Why write this? Tell me who your friend is and I will tell you who you are. We supply you with over 100 tons of meat. In Moscow, every third loaf is baked from our grain, because... Its gluten is higher than yours and you have to mix your grain with ours. Paul Yrala works on our coal. Iran, metals, including non-ferrous and rare earth, early vegetables and fruits, TVs and other household appliances, cars (Skoda and Korean), torpedoes for the Navy. Military testing grounds where Russia tests its missiles (Sary-Shagan), communication with Support the Pacific Fleet through us; you are currently flying into space from Baikonur. On the other hand, we also buy from you - trade turnover is 24 billion dollars. Why is such a tone needed? You should listen to Popovkin more - he was going to the Moon in 16, I wonder why. Read General Gudilin’s interview - after all, a person works for space all his life. He will quickly open his eyes. And Russia will hardly leave Baikonur - it’s simply not profitable, especially if we refuse the lease and offer our own money - who would refuse that? Here at the top they decide how to do it correctly.
      If you could write something constructive, we’ll be happy to read your thoughts!
      1. -3
        April 16 2013 03: 53
        Quote: Kasym
        If you could write something constructive, we’ll be happy to read your thoughts!
        - the constructive thing is that thanks to drunks and other freaks, the territory developed by the titular nation is used by who knows who. Maybe this is originally Kazakh land???? Maybe everything that has been built is a titanic contribution of the minds and strength of the Kazakhs??? No.
        Quote: Kasym
        We supply you with over 100 tons of meat. In Moscow, every third loaf is baked from our grain, because... Its gluten is higher than yours and you have to mix your grain with ours. Paul Yrala works on our coal. Iran, metals, including non-ferrous and rare earth, early vegetables and fruits, TVs and other household appliances, cars (Skoda and Korean), torpedoes for the Navy. Military testing grounds where Russia tests its missiles (Sary-Shagan), communication with Support the Pacific Fleet through us; you are currently flying into space from Baikonur.
        - Look how much has been set up in the steppes and what has been given to you. Grateful?
    2. Earthman
      -1
      April 15 2013 22: 24
      Quote: Masterzserg
      The nomads are showing off again!))))

      Are you sure that your ancestors were not nomads?
      1. -4
        April 16 2013 03: 37
        Quote: Earthman
        Are you sure that your ancestors were not nomads?
        Look at this a couple of generations ago... and it’s already the Stone Age...))) And Mine may have been, but a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  58. +1
    April 15 2013 21: 41
    Masterkh-r or whatever your name is, it’s up to us to decide what to do with Baikonur, and Russia didn’t give it to us, but abandoned it when the USSR collapsed. So it’s too late to drink Borjomi, even if you scream, even if you scream, but Baikonur is and will be KAZAKHSTAN. And it was not Russia that built it, but the entire Soviet Union, and what did Russia achieve after the collapse, NOTHING all the missiles and technologies of the times of the USSR. Your Phobos in which so much they got a lot of money, where are they now?
    1. -1
      April 16 2013 03: 42
      Quote: Kazbek
      It’s up to us to decide what to do with Baikonur
      Nope, it seems so to you; it will be decided either by the Russian Federation, if it has enough strength, or by other powers, but not by you.
      Quote: Kazbek
      and what did Russia achieve after the collapse, NOTHING all the missiles and technologies from the times of the USSR
      - well, we have a lot of things, and the legacy of the USSR is not a reproach to us, it is a reproach to you.)))
      Quote: Kazbek
      Where is your Phobos, into which so much money was poured, now?
      - Yes, it’s corruption, you know, but it’s better to try to fly to Mars than to slowly, like you, descend into the Stone Age.
  59. 0
    April 16 2013 08: 33
    [media=http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6eUrahDEw-Y
    ]
  60. 0
    April 16 2013 08: 34
    [media=http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6eUrahDEw-Y
    ]
  61. +2
    April 16 2013 20: 37
    Well, if you decide that you then made a fuss and paid money as you say, that you are afraid or something. What do you have of your own? I have Russian, except for corruption, NOTHING here you are in front of the rest of the planet. Look, don’t get too far, otherwise at this rate you will end up with us in the Stone Age. You are not by chance the great-grandson of Hitler.
  62. 0
    4 August 2013 21: 31
    Romb April 13, 2013
    Separate agreements have already been signed with France. There are several packages of mutual proposals on the way that will touch upon issues not only of satellite assembly and training of national personnel, but also several other aspects.
    In addition to these countries, there are Israel and Sweden, which since the mid-XNUMXs have been trying to push Kazakhstan to closer cooperation in the interests of national aerospace programs.
    By "Vostochny" you can declare anything - the people will eat, but how it will actually be - time will tell.

    Engineer
    There is little hope for other countries. They will do something for decent money, but they will not transfer space technology either. But Russia will definitely build a new cosmodrome, this is its prestige. And then, what is space technology? This is not only technical documentation, but also complex production (military in the first place), qualified personnel, testing grounds, tracking points, scientific research and much more. Russia has been moving towards this for more than half a century. In Kazakhstan there are only the rudiments of science, and the rest is complete zero. Kazakhstan is not a rich enough country, despite oil, to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on space.

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