"Gerani" on SVO - a new round of evolution

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"Gerani" on SVO - a new round of evolution


Her Majesty "Geranium-2"


From a technical point of view, it is the long-range fire weapons in the SVO that have undergone the greatest evolution. Some things are known from open sources (primarily enemy ones), and some aspects can only be assumed. Surely, the guidance systems of ballistic missiles will be seriously modified missiles "Iskander", because the level and density of work EW in the conflict is unprecedented. But if the general public finds out about it, it will be a long time. The situation is similar with air-launched cruise missiles.



The main heroes of the Ukrainian sky – UMPK and Gerani-2 are visible and audible not only to Banderovites, but also to concerned Russian observers. UMPK are universal planning and correction modules that Russian gunsmiths hung on the “cast iron”. It turned out great – the product in flight was impossible to shoot down, and sometimes even to detect. The small effective dispersion area coupled with the absence of a thermal signature did their job.

But the enemy is not sitting idle and is far from being a fool, as some propagandists paint him. The Ukrainian Armed Forces began to massively supply the front with spoofing systems, that is, substitution of the satellite positioning signal. Russian gliding bombs began to massively deviate from the planned route. This did not last long. Russian design bureaus quickly developed a new GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou and Galileo signal receiver, taking into account the source vector. If the signal came from the ground, the algorithm automatically filtered it. Thus, the UMPKs again restored their accuracy. It seems that for a long time - the enemy has not yet found effective means of counteraction.

The only thing the Banderites managed to do was attack factories that manufacture such equipment. Maybe they'll guess where to hit. They did once. We're talking about the factory in Cheboksary, which specializes in those same "Kometa-M" anti-jamming modules that are installed on the "Banderol" and "Onyx-M" cruise missiles, the "Iskander-M" ballistic missiles, the "UMPK" missiles, and the "Geran-2" kamikaze missiles. No significant damage was done, and the "Kometa-M" missiles continue to be supplied to the troops.


"Geran-2" is the focus of special attention of the enemy. They crush and jam kamikazes with all means. Almost new branches of the armed forces are being formed. To combat low-flying UAVs, the enemy has organized a network of mobile fire groups, forming an echeloned defense of especially important objects. They try to shoot down "Geran-2" with large-caliber machine guns and automatic cannons, which in terms of the "cost-effectiveness" ratio makes the fire groups unrivaled. There is no reason to believe Ukrainian sources, but one cannot help but cite Syrsky's statement that the effectiveness of shooters on "Geran-2" reaches 40 percent. Spoofing, the work of helicopters and light aircraft are in the same plane. aviation. If kamikaze calculations Defense detected, then its destruction is a matter of technique. The main thing is that the Banderites have this technique. Fortunately, this does not happen very often.

But the Geranium-2s continue to undermine the enemy's defensive potential, which means that the advantage is on the side of the Russian Army. One of the first methods of combating ground-based air defense services was carefully plotting routes to the target. The terrain, level of urbanization, and reconnoitered locations of mobile fire teams were used. Over time, this began to work very conditionally - the enemy increased the number of shooters. Even the well-deserved Maxims fired at the Geranium-2s.

The second option was proposed by the industry, which significantly increased the volume of kamikaze production. Massive attacks were launched, overloading the Ukrainian defense. For example, in the first week of May 2025, 1002 Geranium-2s took to the air, and there is no reason to think that the growth rate of the Russian swarm drones will not continue.

Several hundred drones are simultaneously flying to targets in Ukraine. On the night of May 17-18, the enemy was attacked by up to 273 drones, on the night of May 31-June 1 - 472 drones.

If the enemy uses relatively cheap air defense, then the means of combating it must have an adequate price tag. This is how false targets like "Gerbera" appeared, which not only use anti-aircraft ammunition, but also determine the positional areas of the air defense. Subsequently, these territories are either bypassed, or individual means of destruction work on them. As a result, every month the share of kamikazes who overcame the defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine increases by 5-7 percent.

Flexible tactics


Domestic gunsmiths are experimenting with the combat filling of the Geranium-2. A whole range of warheads is used, the mass of which was increased from 50 to 90 kg. This was mainly achieved by reducing the fuel supply, which, however, is more than enough to Lviv and beyond. Ukrainian militants are finding remnants of thermobaric ammunition, cumulative and with impact cores, as well as incendiary ones. Messengers have been circulated by a video in which, as the author claims, a sample of the new incendiary filler of the Geranium-2, which cannot be extinguished even with sand. There is nothing surprising here - magnesium, aluminum and thermite compounds have long been used in practice, burning without air, that is, sand (silicon oxide) cannot prevent them. And in some cases, it will even support the flame.




UAV Sting

Of particular concern are the Ukrainian interceptor drones designed to combat the Geranium-2. The Sting product is based on a carrier drone that is on duty in the zone of probable appearance of Russian kamikazes. When alarmed, it falls away from the mother and goes to the target at a speed of up to 200 km/h at an altitude of about 1000 meters. So far, the enemy has little of this equipment, but the idea of ​​saturating the front lines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with interceptor drones will definitely not be abandoned.

Until the end of 2024, the vast majority of Geranium-2 kamikazes operated in the skies of Ukraine along a given route. That is, they were cheap analogues of cruise missiles. When it became clear that all major military-industrial complex facilities of the enemy were destroyed to one degree or another, remote control was installed on the UAV. Evil tongues on the opposing side claim that some Geranium-2s have Starlink terminals, but it is hard to believe. It's all about the speed limitation of the satellite dish carrier. If unmanned boats and heavy Baba Yaga drones are still capable of maintaining "cruise control", then Geranium-2 is much more agile. Nevertheless, the kamikazes have long been controllable and transmit images to the operator quite well. It does not matter whether this is done via Elon Musk's Internet or Ukrainian mobile network operators.

Now we can state the possibility of Geranium-2 operation in free hunting mode, that is, without a pre-declared target, as well as the destruction of moving targets. For example, a locomotive pulling a train with militants and equipment. The next stage of the Geranium-2 evolution was a thermal imaging camera, which allows combining remote control and work in the dark. The enemy assures about the presence of a separate control computer on the Nvidia architecture and machine learning algorithms. In some cases, the search leads the Ukrainians to radio-controlled drones capable of hitting the enemy at a distance of up to 150 km. A kind of giant FPV drone with a high-altitude repeater.


"Geranium-3"

"Geran-3" is an alternative peak of the evolution of Russian long-range kamikazes. It is a peak because it is equipped with a jet engine instead of a piston engine. Why alternative? Jet thrust significantly increases cruising speed, but reduces the range of the product. Therefore, they will not be able to replace "Geran-2" with the third series machines, but they are definitely able to increase the consumption of enemy air defense missiles.

It's all about balance. As soon as Geran-2 operators understand that the enemy has set up defenses deep in Ukraine, heavy kamikazes immediately begin to work on frontline areas. If air defense has arrived somewhere, it inevitably has left somewhere else. This forces Banderites to return anti-aircraft equipment with personnel to the front, which again affects the rear of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The enemy's shortage of fighters affects even the defense against Geran-2. This can be easily traced from the chronicles in common Telegram channels.


Sources on the other side of the front claim that the photo shows a Geranium-2 with a thermal imager

The times when Russian kamikaze UAVs worked like a conveyor belt, attacking a target one by one, are gone. At least for a while. Now the fashion is to attack with an avalanche of Geranium-2s in a dive from the highest possible altitude. Ukrainian sources have long noticed a change in tactics drones, when they group, for example, over the Black Sea, and then attack the target of interest in a bunch. From a height of 2000-3000 meters. There are two goals here. The first is that a group strike one after another, unlike a conveyor and stretched out over time, does not allow the enemy to pull up those very mobile fire groups in time to repel the attack. They simply do not have time. The second is that the altitudes of the approach to the target in the region of 2-3 kilometers force them to lift helicopters and fighters into the air and launch missiles into the sky. All this is economically advantageous for the Russian Army. Let them continue in the same spirit.

And the last thing. The enemy should be wary of working on the Geraniums from helicopters and aircraft. The hour is not far off when kamikazes will receive short-range air defense missiles and when the picture of the confrontation will be painted in completely different colors. Geraniums of various evolutionary branches will take a good chunk of the battlefield, forcing the Ukrainian Armed Forces to remember the well-deserved Maxim machine guns again.
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  1. +5
    28 June 2025 04: 53
    "Geraniums" of various evolutionary branches will take a good chunk of the battlefield, forcing the Ukrainian Armed Forces to once again remember the well-deserved "Maxim" machine guns.
    More Geraniums, good and different! good
    1. +26
      28 June 2025 07: 47
      I want to move from the theoretical to the practical use of bombs with UMPK and drones. We were constantly told that it is impossible to destroy automobile and especially railway bridges across the Dnieper. It is known that the main movements of equipment, ammunition and troops go along the railways, so why don't we wait for a train to pass over the bridge, or better yet, two at once from opposite directions and strike the locomotive and the last cars, then finish off the entire train with drones, the bridge will be blocked for a long time, and so that the consequences of the disaster are not quickly eliminated, constantly strike repair crews with drones, preventing repair and rescue work. Is it really impossible to carry out similar operations on several bridges at once, blocking the main supplies of equipment, ammunition, food, and in general, or are we not like that and the order is not given from above?!
      1. +3
        28 June 2025 08: 18
        Quote: vasyliy1
        We are not like that and we don’t get orders from above?!

        According to the old Russian tradition, they prefer to beat their own so that strangers are afraid. That's probably why our government has issued an indulgence to Zelensky and his junta for any crimes and doesn't even try to threaten them. Bad manners, though. sad
        1. +9
          28 June 2025 08: 28
          I agree with you. Has our General Staff still not understood that logistics is the blood of war? Imagine that by blocking several bridges across the Dnieper in this way, all trains in these directions will stop and, accordingly, will become easy prey for drones, and if dozens of traction substations on the railway are destroyed, all traffic will stop and collapse will begin. Electric locomotives will become useless, and there are not so many diesel locomotives on the outskirts and they can also be hunted. Why haven't they thought of this yet or still don't want to?......
          1. +2
            28 June 2025 20: 24
            You still don’t understand who sits in our General Staff?
      2. +3
        28 June 2025 08: 31
        The correct answer you yourself assumed - we are not like that and the order was not to touch the bridges, and also not to zero out Zelya and his gang!
        1. +3
          28 June 2025 08: 33
          So I am not proposing to "touch" bridges, but trains and traction substations on the railway!
      3. +2
        28 June 2025 10: 03
        So Shoigu also spoke about an agreement not to strike at infrastructure.
        1. +2
          28 June 2025 10: 11
          "And Shoigu also spoke about an agreement not to strike at infrastructure."

          So is it being implemented? Banderites are constantly striking at it! And we continue to play cat and mouse!
          1. +1
            29 June 2025 01: 57
            This is part of Putin's vision of the SVO - an isolated theater of military operations.
        2. 0
          7 July 2025 13: 54
          A stupid and absurd treaty that needs to be urgently revised, if we're going to fight, then fight for real, and not engage in half measures and play with trinkets, you can hit here, but you can't hit there, some kind of absurd pacifist nonsense has firmly taken root in the minds of some of our narrow-minded characters.
          1. -1
            7 July 2025 16: 51
            Well, if the oil refinery in Kremenchug was destroyed only in the 4th year of the war and immediately Azerbaijanis surfaced, so it is obvious that both the bridges and the DEPO railway are not being destroyed due to the interest of some individuals in the export and preservation of assets.
            Again, there is probably a fear that Ukrainian drones will fly not only to military factories, but also to the entire infrastructure of nearby regions, such as chemical plants and nuclear power plants.
      4. +5
        28 June 2025 12: 41
        I completely agree! It seems to me that there are many "spies" - in power, in command... Plus the effect is significantly enhanced, as always, by the presence of the "smartest" - that is, alas, fools and ignoramuses ((
      5. 0
        28 June 2025 17: 24
        What makes you think that it will take a long time to pull apart the damaged train? They will bring in air defense and quickly dismantle everything. They will hang nets, and the tracks along the bridges themselves are usually covered with metal structures. Here in the article they wrote that
        To combat low-flying UAVs, the enemy has organized a network of mobile fire groups that form a layered defense of especially important objects.

        I wrote here a long time ago that we just need to use Lancet drones to hunt for rolling stock, at least in left-bank Ukraine. Sooner or later they will run out of it and there will simply be nothing to transport the cars on.
  2. +7
    28 June 2025 04: 59
    The scenario of the evolution of UAVs in our time exactly repeats the scenario in Robert Sheckley's "Guardian Bird"... one to one.
    It is now cheaper to wage war with these flying killer birds...the antidote to them is the same birds hunting killer birds...
    What progress has been made...to unprecedented miracles...technically, it is possible to stamp out millions and millions of UAVs...several pieces per person and it is difficult to fight this.
    1. +2
      28 June 2025 07: 18
      In general, it is quite curious to see how science fiction, since the 19th century, has actually shaped technical progress... By indicating the desired directions of its development.
      1. 0
        29 June 2025 10: 21
        How long can we discuss this absurdity? A backward army is waging a long war with wretched methods against an obviously weak enemy, and does anyone see modern trends in this mess? The SVO is not how it should be. "Geraniums" are for weak countries that are trying to wear down a strong enemy with guerrilla methods, suffering huge losses! What modern trends, what experience? What are you talking about? They are trying to instill in you the idea that this is how it should be! They have been destroying the army for decades and hiding behind nuclear weapons, and suddenly they were forced to go to a military operation with conventional weapons, and suddenly they realized that they can do nothing and do not know how to fight, except for the old methods of valor and self-sacrifice of the best soldiers and officers in the world!!! The generals have no idea about modern warfare, and they did not prepare for it and are not ready now. What stupidity!!! "Geraniums" are an advanced weapon of modern warfare?! Where did you see this modern war?
  3. +5
    28 June 2025 05: 03
    Quote: The same LYOKHA
    The scenario of the evolution of UAVs in our time exactly repeats the scenario in Robert Sheckley's "Guardian Bird"... one to one
    R. Sheckley was right on target wink
  4. +4
    28 June 2025 05: 06
    In general, the water-cooled machine gun became the best weapon. Again.
    Geranis need to be equipped with some kind of brains that can detect and attack such firing points. 50 kg of TNT is no joke.
    1. -2
      28 June 2025 06: 22
      It's a bit heavy to carry, it's easier to change the barrel.
      1. +3
        28 June 2025 07: 11
        Nobody carries anti-aircraft guns. They are carried in jeeps and pickups. They shoot from them. There are a ton of water and ammo. And I would like to see who is using their hands to tamper with a quadruple PKM.
        It is especially interesting to hear that no one changes gun barrels in battle.
    2. +2
      28 June 2025 13: 58
      They have tracer bullets in their machine guns, I think a regular camera from a mobile phone and a simple program for targeting would be enough. They probably didn't do it because there was no such order, geraniums fly on orders from the very top, and there are almost no people with military thinking there request
    3. 0
      28 June 2025 22: 57
      Quote: MCmaximus
      We need to equip Geraniums with some brains
      No need: here they write about controlled Geranis, they could well hit mobile anti-aircraft gunners if the operator detects shelling.
      1. 0
        29 June 2025 08: 43
        There may be no connection with the operator.
        The operator cannot see everything around. And if the target is to the side, he will not be able to find it again. The machine gunner does not fire without stopping.
        The dive speed is high. A person in such a situation will most often miss. Or this speed should be greatly reduced. Like in regular FPV.
  5. -5
    28 June 2025 06: 11
    Quote: MCmaximus
    Geranis need to be equipped with some kind of brains that can detect and attack such firing points. 50 kg of TNT is no joke.

    A self-destructive idea... the bird might confuse you with an enemy... a friend-or-foe identification system will be needed. hi
    And this is very expensive.
    1. KCA
      +2
      28 June 2025 06: 31
      What's so expensive? To encrypt your own/someone else's? A smartphone will last for a month, or even more, a looped code, like our ZAS, if 30 years ago there was a ZAS Flywheel with a guaranteed secrecy for a month, now who knows what they've come up with, again quantum devices
    2. +3
      28 June 2025 06: 37
      a friend-or-foe identification system will be needed. hi
      And this is very expensive.

      It’s not needed, we just need a time delay so that he can fly behind the front line, and then let him do whatever he wants.
      1. -2
        28 June 2025 06: 41
        Quote: Pankrat25
        No, we just need a time delay so that he can fly behind the front line, and then let him do whatever he wants.

        It will start shooting at civilians...and the front line is not static...it will shift and our soldiers will come under attack.
        Friendly fire is a dangerous thing...many people have died from it.
    3. +2
      28 June 2025 07: 06
      Simply determine the border using satellite navigation. It couldn't be simpler. Scooters, for example, don't leave the zone if required. Speed ​​is limited where necessary.
      And then he crossed a certain line and killed everyone
  6. 0
    28 June 2025 06: 22
    200 geraniums per night (per day) with a warhead of 90 kg is 18 tons. It seems like a lot, but if you compare it with combat operations during World War II, it’s 2 B-17 or 2 Pe-8. Or 4 smaller aircraft.
    During the night, one light bomber regiment (on Po-2) dropped a commensurate bomb load quite accurately on targets (approximately like Gerani). And there were not one or two of these regiments.
    The Americans used dozens, and sometimes many dozens of planes during their raids on Germany, and dropped about 44 tons of bombs in 400. In terms of Geraniums, this is 000 (twenty thousand) raids of 20000 Geraniums, that is, twenty thousand days or more than 200 years, if such a raid were carried out every night.
    1. +3
      28 June 2025 06: 46
      Quote: Vladimir-TTT
      The Americans used dozens, and sometimes many dozens of planes, in their raids on Germany, and dropped about 44 tons of bombs in 400.
      And in the 18th century they went in a tight formation, there the accuracy of the salvo was not comparable to a machine gun. But seriously, then with such bombings the accuracy of the destruction was, let's say, not very good, they hit areas. Let's not take dive bombing. And geranium is an almost exact hit on the target, yes less damage, but also fewer unnecessary victims.
      1. -2
        28 June 2025 06: 55
        Quote: lwxx
        And geranium is almost a precise hit on target, less damage, but also fewer unnecessary victims.

        The one that flew. And hit. So everything is proportionate.
        This all means that for real combat operations these are "mosquito bites" - both from the enemy (remember that only debris causes destruction) and, accordingly, from ours.
        Reality and real losses, real damage - this is when the application is at the level of sabotage - as according to our strategists, as according to the arsenal in Toropets.
        But this is increasingly the work of intelligence and counterintelligence, and here our special services are not up to par.
    2. KCA
      -2
      28 June 2025 06: 55
      Vinny, Vinnie, what's the nuance? Well, look, my finger is in your Piglet there, and I have my finger in yours there, but there is a nuance, don't confuse warm with soft, now a drone will fly into the window and wait, well, it depends on the operator, if they bombed with a spread of 300 meters then or less than a meter now, is there a difference? Flowers, flowers, geranium, geranium, is there nothing else in the Armed Forces? I'll disappoint you, yes, you can go to a contract and meet there
      1. -6
        28 June 2025 07: 00
        Quote: KCA
        Flowers, flowers, geranium, geranium, is there nothing else in the Armed Forces? I'll disappoint you, yes, you can go to the contract and meet there

        Yes, it may be in theory. But in practice, bridges across the Dnieper are indestructible - because the geranium with its 90 kg can't do anything. And Oreshnik is more for the media.
        1. KCA
          -6
          28 June 2025 07: 17
          Can you tell me when they blew up bridges with small fry like Geranek? Do you have any data on what Oreshnik is? And about its hypersonic warheads, the media launches the beauty of the RS-26, which costs more than you and your relatives and comrades and comrades of comrades? So, for show, on camera? I liked it on camera, it was beautiful, don't mess around, don't poke your nose in, what was on the cutlet's impact, take it and put it in the frying pan
          1. 0
            28 June 2025 07: 26
            Quote: KCA
            Can you tell me when small fry like Geranek blew up bridges?

            What, have the bridges across the Dnieper already been blown up?
            when? what? how could i miss such news...
            1. KCA
              -6
              28 June 2025 07: 29
              And the Moscow-New York bridges were blown up? The comment somehow smelled of lard, Kyiv to hell, the whole outskirts to dust, right?
          2. -1
            28 June 2025 07: 28
            Quote: KCA
            who are worth more than you and your relatives and comrades and comrades of comrades?

            Is this with embezzlement and theft, or without them?)))
            1. KCA
              -4
              28 June 2025 07: 33
              No, this is with your fees for hanging out on RF forums, is there anything about embezzlement? You will find the FSB number, aren't you afraid, there are careerists there, they will hand over corrupt officials in no time, yes, and the cops with the FSB are not very good, there are two options
          3. +1
            28 June 2025 12: 24
            Where do Geraniums attack bridges?
            In the part of Donbass occupied by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Russian Geran drones are destroying bridges.
            https://topwar.ru/266680-v-okkupirovannoj-vsu-chasti-donbassa-rossijskie-bespilotniki-geran-unichtozhajut-mosty.html
            1. 0
              28 June 2025 17: 34
              To attack does not mean to destroy. A comrade asked about the destroyed bridges across the Dnieper, but these are not bridges on the highway between villages.
              1. -1
                28 June 2025 17: 38
                A comrade asked where the Geraniums attack bridges, please don't be fake.
                And in order to attack bridges across the Dnieper with Geraniums, it is necessary to have a guidance point nearby, which has not yet been possible to ensure. The point is that the guidance means of our missiles turned out to be insufficiently accurate, seriously inferior to the American Himars.
                1. 0
                  28 June 2025 18: 24
                  Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                  A comrade asked where the Geraniums attack bridges, please don't be fake.

                  This is what the comrade asked:
                  What, have the bridges across the Dnieper already been blown up?

                  Read the text more carefully before putting in your two cents...
          4. 0
            28 June 2025 14: 03
            Can you tell me when small fry like Geranek blew up bridges?

            Yes, literally the other day
            https://topwar.ru/266680-v-okkupirovannoj-vsu-chasti-donbassa-rossijskie-bespilotniki-geran-unichtozhajut-mosty.html
            It's not clear why they use geranium at such a distance from the LBS, they could have put a fab, or a hurricane or regular artillery to put down several boxes of shells
            1. +1
              28 June 2025 16: 45
              There were talks a few years ago that the 203 mm howitzer needed a guided projectile like the Krasnopol. But they remained just talk. 152 mm projectiles are not enough to destroy the bridge, at least 203 mm are needed.
              1. -1
                28 June 2025 17: 41
                One 203 mm shell is about the same as two 152 mm shells. There are far fewer pions than 152 mm howitzers with different names. You can shoot a lot, and even unguided ones, because that bridge was observed from our drone. And in general - when was the last time you saw footage of a Krasnopol? It feels like we have about twenty Iskanders for every Krasnopol request
                1. -1
                  28 June 2025 17: 46
                  Less or more, that's not the question. You can destroy a bridge with a 203 mm Pion, but not with a 152 mm howitzer.
                  And, you have an error in estimating the power of a 203 mm projectile and a 152 mm projectile in several times. A difference of five to ten times, not two.
                  Why do you give incorrect estimates of the power of the charges?
                  1. -2
                    28 June 2025 18: 43
                    And, you have an error in estimating the power of a 203 mm projectile and a 152 mm projectile in several times. A difference of five to ten times, not two.
                    Why do you give incorrect estimates of the power of the charges?
                    let's just look at the masses of the shells themselves and the explosives
                    3VOF34 - 110 kg - 18 kg
                    3OF45 - 44 kg - 8 kg
                    Krasnopol-M1 - 45 kg - 9 kg
                    Where is the 5-10 times difference here? In kinetic energy? So both shells will break through the bridge surface, if they do not explode - they will pass through and leave relatively small holes
                    The 203 mm Pion can destroy the bridge, but not the 152 mm howitzer.
                    here some people say that the bridge can't be destroyed even by the X-32, the bridge needs to be destroyed from start to finish, and if it doesn't have a couple of spans, it doesn't count and there's no need to even try fool You might as well tell me that if a 6mm shell hits a 152 meter wide bridge, it will ricochet off and leave only a small dent. wassat
                    1. -1
                      28 June 2025 18: 49
                      Just 18 kg of explosives will give a difference in the power of the explosion of five to ten times compared to 7 kg of explosives in OF-65.
                      You have another rigged case.
                      1. -1
                        28 June 2025 19: 22
                        And what do you measure the power in? In joules? What is the explosive power of both shells?
                      2. -1
                        28 June 2025 19: 38
                        It is enough to look at the size of the resulting funnel to understand that the volume of earth removed is four times higher, and accordingly, the power, taking into account the greater depth, is many times higher.
                        How many times have I promised myself not to communicate with Internet generals and marshals whose moral qualities, combined with their knowledge, have negative meanings.
                      3. 0
                        28 June 2025 21: 41
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        How many times have I promised myself not to communicate with Internet generals and marshals?

                        Well, the main thing is that you don't communicate with those who know the laws of physics, otherwise it will suddenly turn out that the inverse square law says that two shells half as big cause more damage than one twice as big feel
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        It is enough to look at the size of the resulting funnel to understand that the volume of earth removed is four times higher, and accordingly, the power, taking into account the greater depth, is many times higher.

                        Let's watch! Where to watch? fellow
                        By the way, how deep are the bridge decks? Surely one of the two shells won't penetrate?
                      4. -2
                        28 June 2025 21: 42
                        Where is physics and where are you, sir? These are two very different things. So what to do with the volume of earth removed from the crater by 152 and 203 mm shells?
                        Look at it by eye, dear, no need to count. Where to count and where you are. Look in a circle, in volume, not a flat picture.
                        And does an artillery writer need to be told where to look for a picture of craters?
                      5. 0
                        28 June 2025 21: 56
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        Where is physics and where are you, dear sir? These are two very different things.

                        Well, I know a little physics
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        So what to do with the volume of earth removed from the crater by 152 and 203 mm shells?

                        so where is this volume? In your words?
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        Look at the eye, dear, no need to count. Where to count and where you are.

                        let's see!
                        Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
                        And does an artillery writer need to be told where to look for a picture of craters?

                        look - I found it!
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVm8F6aP-k8
                        Much larger than a 152mm projectile?
                        By the way, I asked a professional in everything - chatgpt - he said that the radius of destruction of 203 mm is 1.5-2 times larger, but it will penetrate more. Although this does not affect anything at all - there are no such thick bridges, and those that exist - it is useless to send 203 mm and geranium along them. But you, it seems, decided to penetrate the bridge deeper laughing

                        By the way, the guaranteed lethality of 203 mm is approximately 5.5 meters, while 152 mm is a little more than 4 meters.
                  2. 0
                    30 June 2025 21: 20
                    And, you have an error in estimating the power of a 203 mm projectile and a 152 mm projectile in several times. A difference of five to ten times, not two.

                    There is a cubic dependence on the difference in calibers.
                2. 0
                  28 June 2025 18: 31
                  Quote from alexoff
                  And in general - when was the last time you saw footage of a Krasnopol in use? It feels like we have about twenty Iskanders for every Krasnopol

                  Instead of the Krasnopol, the front line has learned to use the aircraft-type UAV Molot, which can deliver about the same amount of explosives to the target, but costs 100 times less. (The Krasnopol costs 5 million rubles; the Molot costs 50 thousand rubles). In terms of accuracy of destruction, they are almost comparable.
                  1. 0
                    28 June 2025 18: 47
                    The paradox of the military-industrial complex is that an airplane with a battery, video camera, servo drives, on-board computer and video communication system costs orders of magnitude less than a projectile with thirty-year-old technologies. As far as I remember, the Shmel cost 60 thousand, and the only electronics it had was a piezoelectric element for launching.
                    1. -2
                      28 June 2025 19: 26
                      Quote from alexoff
                      The paradox of the military-industrial complex is that an airplane with a battery, video camera, servo drives, on-board computer and video communication system costs orders of magnitude less than a projectile with thirty-year-old technology.

                      "Molot" is assembled from plastic and plywood, and "Krasnopol" from good steel processed to 152 caliber. Krasnopol does not have a Chinese video camera, but a semi-active laser guidance head and the same aerodynamic control system. And these are all high-precision mechanisms, therefore an expensive "pleasure".....
                      1. 0
                        28 June 2025 21: 45
                        Quote: Askold65
                        Krasnopol does not have a Chinese video camera, but a semi-active laser guidance head.

                        Do you think a video camera is easier to manufacture? Especially one of this size?
                        Quote: Askold65
                        and "Krasnopol" is made of good steel processed to 152 caliber

                        How much does this good steel weighing a couple dozen kilos cost? A million rubles? belay
                        Quote: Askold65
                        the same aerodynamic control system

                        probably also a million rubles. Given that most likely the Chinese at the Chinese factory of all such steering wheels receive hardly less than the workers at our weapons factory
                        Quote: Askold65
                        And these are all high-precision mechanisms, and therefore an expensive "pleasure"...

                        Do you think China makes low-precision parts in a slapdash manner? Maybe we should start producing them ourselves instead of assembling them from Chinese parts, which would cost about 20 thousand?
                      2. -3
                        29 June 2025 18: 59
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Do you think a video camera is easier to manufacture? Especially one of this size?

                        I don't count anything because I don't know what's worth. Especially since it depends on what kind of video camera it is.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        How much does this good steel weighing a couple dozen kilos cost? A million rubles?
                        ........apparently also a million rubles. Given that most likely the Chinese at the Chinese factory of all such steering wheels receive hardly less than the workers at our weapons factory

                        You know what, let's compare a simple UAV assembled in a semi-artisanal production and a high-precision artillery shell at an industrial enterprise, and not compare the salaries of Russian and Chinese workers.
                        I'll explain it to you once again in a popular way: don't confuse semi-artisanal production using the assembly method from imported Chinese components and an industrial enterprise, where in addition to specialists employed in production, there is also a plant management with numerous departments and service personnel, such as cleaners, janitors, a construction worker, security, etc. And they all get a salary, too. Really? what Add here a fleet of expensive high-precision equipment in the form of machines, stands, laboratories, etc. And all this must be maintained. And not just stupidly count the weight of steel and explosives used for the shell. How much will such a shell cost in China, the USA and Europe? Everywhere there are different conditions and, accordingly, different prices.
                        Quote from alexoff
                        Do you think China makes low-precision parts in a slapdash manner? Maybe we should start producing them ourselves instead of assembling them from Chinese parts, which would cost about 20 thousand

                        Don't try to finish my guess, I wrote to you above that you shouldn't compare a projectile and a UAV, especially one assembled in different countries.
                      3. 0
                        30 June 2025 12: 32
                        I don't count anything because I don't know what's worth. Especially since it depends on what kind of video camera it is.
                        on a drone for 50 thousand probably not very expensive
                        I will explain it to you once again in a popular way: do not confuse semi-artisanal production using the assembly method from imported Chinese components and an industrial enterprise.
                        so you think that Chinese components that cost pennies are not made in factories with cleaners and machines? It's a pity that they don't make parts for Krasnopolya, otherwise they would produce them cheaply. And so when someone has already adjusted everything, you can screw some screws in the basement
                    2. 0
                      29 June 2025 21: 42
                      This is not a paradox, this is a mass-produced product. A single-crystal silicon ingot for the production of microcircuits costs many millions of dollars depending on the purity and size. But the chips obtained from it are sold in large quantities, which allows the extremely expensive and knowledge-intensive industry to be recouped. Pumping oil and making gasoline from it was also not a cheap occupation, until there was a mass demand.
                      1. -1
                        30 June 2025 12: 33
                        This is also a product of competition. Some of us put their own nameplate on Chinese drones and sell them for five times the price of the Ministry of Defense.
    3. 0
      28 June 2025 07: 07
      Well, yes, we ended up in the city. And sometimes in the wrong city.
      1. 0
        28 June 2025 07: 25
        Quote: MCmaximus
        Well, yes, we ended up in the city. And sometimes in the wrong city.

        In terms of accuracy and effectiveness, the Po-2 (those same light bomber regiments) were probably not inferior to the Geraniums, but rather, they were many times superior.
        1. 0
          28 June 2025 07: 29
          Then - maybe. At night. Now Po-2?! And why? Deep into the rear? At a speed of 120 km/h both ways...
          The Po-2 of that time was more like an analogue of the usual drones of today. The depth of work is the same.
          1. -1
            28 June 2025 09: 36
            Quote: MCmaximus
            Then - maybe. At night. Now Po-2?! But why?

            Nobody suggests that.
            The example given is that the Geraniums are as effective as the Po-2 in WWII, and they were effective - but somewhere in fourth or fifth place, after the "big" bombers, attack aircraft and other aircraft.
            Nowadays, geraniums are being passed off as some kind of "superweapon".
            1. 0
              28 June 2025 09: 38
              Yes, the analogy is almost perfect. The military laughed before the war, but it turned out to be a super-effective weapon. Especially considering the price.
        2. 0
          28 June 2025 13: 05
          In terms of accuracy and effectiveness, the Po-2 (those same light bomber regiments) were probably not inferior to the Geraniums, but rather, they were many times superior.
          Most likely, that's how it was. Here's the award sheet for my father, a navigator of the 889th NBAP. Hitting a separate vehicle or an artillery piece with a 50 kg bomb - you still have to be able to do it.
  7. +1
    28 June 2025 08: 08
    Quote: Vladimir-TTT
    What, have the bridges across the Dnieper already been blown up?


    If these bridges have not been blown up, it is only because this is considered undesirable. Otherwise, these bridges would not have existed long ago. Do not confuse intentions with possibilities.
    The mince should flow into the meat grinder without interruption. This process should not be disturbed.
  8. +4
    28 June 2025 08: 12
    Quote: Vladimir-TTT
    In terms of accuracy and effectiveness, the Po-2 (those same light bomber regiments) were probably not inferior to the Geraniums, but rather, they were many times superior.


    They were not superior. And in terms of efficiency (result/cost ratio) they were inferior many times over. The "Kukuruzniks" were still more expensive (if the cost is estimated in man-hours for production), in addition, their use was associated with the risk of loss of flight personnel. The "Geran" is only a technical device, a priori cheaper than a human life.
    1. -1
      28 June 2025 09: 39
      Quote: Illanatol
      They were not superior. And in terms of efficiency (result/cost ratio) they were inferior many times over. The "maize" planes were still more expensive (if the cost is estimated in man-hours for production), and their use was associated with the risk of loss of flight personnel.

      Po-2s were more expensive (possibly) - one plane of one geranium - but they also made dozens of sorties. Just a few per night.
  9. BAI
    0
    28 June 2025 08: 52
    When it became clear that all major military-industrial complex facilities of the enemy had been destroyed to one degree or another, remote control was installed on the UAV.

    Who understood this and when? Everything works
  10. +1
    28 June 2025 10: 50
    Yes, we must honestly admit that our opponent, or to be more precise, our opponents are far from fools. Unfortunately, this conflict will drag on for a very long time.
  11. 0
    28 June 2025 12: 19
    The hour is not far off when kamikazes will receive short-range air defense missiles and when the picture of the confrontation will take on a completely different color.

    Why bother? They installed a shock core with a fuse based on the principle of a laser rangefinder on the "Geran" - and that's why there is no helicopter.
  12. 0
    28 June 2025 12: 40
    Iran had larger UAVs like the Arash2. At one time they wrote that Geranis would also appear.
  13. +2
    28 June 2025 16: 03
    I fully believe that 40 percent of Geraniums are shot down by rapid-fire artillery. And here we are lagging behind again - the understanding of the need for this type of air defense just can't get through to our heads in caps.
    1. 0
      28 June 2025 16: 51
      It was a mistake to fly at low altitudes from the very beginning. This is the practical implementation of the prejudices of air defense specialists from the 70s of the last century. An altitude of 3-5 km and not only small-caliber artillery will not reach, but MANPADS become useless. You will have to waste expensive missiles or use medium-caliber artillery and it is not a fact that its fuses are adjusted accordingly.
      1. -1
        29 June 2025 11: 44
        When attacking an object, you will still have to descend, and this is where the rapid-fire gun should work, and at the heights of Gerani, helicopters and fighters are perfectly caught.
        1. -1
          29 June 2025 14: 34
          That's the rub, they don't catch very well. If our Ka-52 and Mi-28 have radars and air-to-air missiles, which is what they mainly work with. Then the Ukrainian helicopters are outdated, without radars and they have to use machine guns, which is not safe.
          And there was already a case of the death of a Ukrainian MiG-29 from the explosion of a drone hit by a cannon.
          Finally, you can try changing the flight altitudes on the drone, alternating.
          And if the drone goes into a dive, rapid-fire is already a controversial method.
          1. 0
            29 June 2025 15: 58
            But they are knocking something down, working with what they can and as best they can.
  14. 0
    28 June 2025 22: 34
    "The hour is not far off when kamikazes will receive short-range air defense missiles and when the picture of the confrontation will be painted in completely different colors."
    Well, there's no need to fantasize at all...
  15. +1
    28 June 2025 23: 00
    If the enemy uses relatively cheap air defense, then the means of combating it must have an adequate price tag. This is how decoys like the Gerber appeared
    I wonder why Gerbera is cheaper? Maybe it would be better to make more Geraniums?
  16. 0
    6 July 2025 14: 33
    UAVs will occupy the segment between artillery and aircraft.