Military Review

Expert: Purchase of foreign technology - a crime

143
According to the deputy Vyacheslav Tetekin, the Russian military-industrial complex is able to produce everything that is being purchased in the West by itself.


The delegation of the State Duma Committee on Defense visited the Institute of Semiconductor Physics of the Siberian Branch (SB) of the Russian Academy of Sciences, headed by Academician AL Aseev, Vice President of the Russian Academy of Sciences. There, the deputies got acquainted with the latest developments that are not inferior to the western ones.

Nevertheless, the deputy is surprised at our Tanks French infrared cameras are now installing, despite the fact that domestic science and industry produces exactly the same devices.

Originator:
http://www.rosbalt.ru/video/2013/04/11/1116416.html
143 comments
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  1. Alex_dex
    Alex_dex April 12 2013 15: 53 New
    -31
    What kind of insanity does this theorist have?

    The purchase of foreign equipment is a norm and a blessing, but no, why do we need suitable equipment for the army, we want aluminum and "Karusel", and if it has no analogues, then this is generally a dream. About "exactly the same devices" is nonsense. It's not just that they put the French Thales on the T-90.

    About the possibility of our defense industry to produce all the same as in the west, too, fiction. In many respects we have a lag.
    1. cerko
      cerko April 12 2013 16: 08 New
      15
      let me disagree, even if we can’t produce an analogue (which I doubt) you can always copy, China copies entire planes and then also sells them for export
      1. Alex_dex
        Alex_dex April 12 2013 16: 11 New
        -17
        The fact of the matter is that no. There is no element base. But we cannot copy the thermal imager - the technologies are not the same. Bulbashi tried, tried and nishmagli. Yields to the French.
        1. Letun
          Letun April 12 2013 16: 28 New
          13
          Maybe the purchase of some modules abroad is possible as a temporary measure? I agree with this, but if you are going to buy all this constantly, without developing your production, then this is another step into the abyss, or as the author of the article says, it is a crime.
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach April 12 2013 16: 47 New
            +5
            We are talking about the creation of a joint venture on the one hand and "dusting the head with ashes" in the form of hysterical headlines in the media, from the side removed from the trough.
            An example is a textbook:
            Vyartsilya - whose? Finnish? ohh ... Then someone, there is a share of STX Europe a little more than - dofiga? STX Europe is the host, although Värtsilä's office in snowy Finland. (They went bankrupt in the 80s) But Finnish engines and shipyards have been friends with us for almost 70 years ... That's what many Ura-patriots do not want to see. But this is a fact.

            JV, with an address in Russia, is when Russia buys a European "left-handed", and not vice versa. (The time of the Yak-141 has passed.)
            The same with the French and their technology.
            1. jjj
              jjj April 12 2013 21: 55 New
              +6
              And they love our screws, from "Zvezdochka". They were finished off by the fact that only when using the Severodvinsk propellers there is less vibration, and the steamer can save five percent of fuel. And when one day the liner broke off one blade, then our team changed it right in the sea. It was a silent scene.
          2. sashka
            sashka April 12 2013 18: 15 New
            0
            Quote: Letun
            without developing your production, this is another step into the abyss, or, as the author of the article says, a crime.

            Exactly .. But led by Ryzhiy (not to be confused with Great Pu), we will definitely come there.
            PS For the Moderator. Why is the letter "e" displayed as an error?
            1. Combitor
              Combitor April 13 2013 04: 23 New
              +1
              Sasha, As for the letter "Yo" I was once "washed". It turns out that a rule has appeared in the Russian language that suggests the spelling of this letter only in controversial cases when "e" can be interpreted as "e". I have never heard of such a "rule". I always wrote the letters that should be. At school in Russian I had a solid "5". Now all our education is conducted according to Western patterns. PC programs are also compiled according to their standards. It is possible that soon the long-suffering letter "E" will disappear from the Russian language altogether.
              And about the topic of discussion. I think that by buying Western weapons and various equipment for it, the current regime commits a crime against its country and its own people. We ruin our research and production base. We give work to workers abroad. His gradually falls into decline and desolation. So soon it will come to the point that we will also buy underpants for soldiers abroad. Exchange experience needed. Learning good from the west is also necessary. But being lobbyists of the West, what the current Putin regime is, is a crime.
        2. Army1
          Army1 April 12 2013 17: 42 New
          +4
          Here read:
          http://www.russianelectronics.ru/leader-r/pechat/59220/
          They even got to the Air Force: http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/news/vvs-poluchili-novyy-samolet-svyazi-i-razvedki-

          napichkannyy-importnymi-processorami /
          There is practically no elementary electronic base, BUT they have been investing heavily there lately, Rogozin has taken up this, This is +
        3. svp67
          svp67 April 13 2013 12: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Alex_dex
          The fact of the matter is that no. There is no element base. But we cannot copy the thermal imager - the technologies are not the same. Bulbashi tried, tried and nishmagli. Yields to the French.


          Well then, our state has a great opportunity not to go along the path that they went, but to start on its own, but from a higher level. You just need to use it correctly.
      2. dmitreach
        dmitreach April 12 2013 16: 17 New
        +1
        We are not Chinese. India takes an example from us. We cooperate with the French at the level of creating a joint venture.
        And even more than that (!) With the loss of Ukraine and the Baltic states (production facilities on their territories), in the new century we "acquired" France.
        On this topic, I share the opinion of Igor Korotchenko. He is not from scratch - the director of the Center for the Analysis of the World Arms Trade.
        He knows what he is writing about.
        1. morpex
          morpex April 12 2013 21: 35 New
          +7
          Quote: dmitreach
          We are not Chinese.

          Oh well ..! And with that, how?
          While Americans are testing lasers on ships, the technical equipment of our army is also gaining new details: ballistic materials from the Netherlands will soon be used in all types of armored protection. An agreement on cooperation in the field of biotechnology with the Dutch company Royal DSM was signed by Rostec Corporation, which includes many Russian defense plants. Until recently, experts noted that the armor protection of serial Russian tanks was already outdated
          According to the press, the Russian tank Armata being developed is “equipped with a new generation of integrated dynamic protection and an active protection complex”. Unfortunately, the developers have not yet disclosed any more precise details about this armor. Nevertheless, the holding company RT-Chemcomposite, part of Rostec, and the Dutch Royal DSM represented by its daughter DSM Dyneema are now considering the possibility of producing fiber sheets in Russia
          ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene for armor, in particular for body armor, helmets, vehicles and helicopters. Let's hope this helps Russian tank builders.
          But what about our developments? For example:

          Five years ago, specialists at the Armocom Center for High-Strength Materials created a unique helmet LSHZ-2DT. Outside - a high-hard ceramic screen, inside - an energy-intensive composite substrate made of aramid fabric. During the test, the helmet withstood eight hits from automatic weapons. Inside - not a scratch. The maximum that a military man in such a helmet faces from a headshot is the loss of combat effectiveness for 3-5 minutes. It has no analogues in the world.
          It's a shame damn it! They’re buying their own, they’re buying someone else’s. As for me, Europe will not sell us new technologies. They’ll get some garbage at a cheap price, if only we wouldn’t develop our own.
          1. Warbringer
            Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 37 New
            0
            Quote: morpex
            Europe will not sell us new technologies

            I wouldn’t let the inhabitants of Ukraine into Europe at all, not to mention the acts of sale.
            1. morpex
              morpex April 12 2013 22: 03 New
              0
              Quote: Warbringer
              I wouldn’t let the inhabitants of Ukraine into Europe at all, not to mention the acts of sale.

              Comrade Military! What are you talking about? In what sense did not let? Is it possible to visit with your permission?
      3. sashka
        sashka April 12 2013 18: 05 New
        +1
        Quote: cerko
        let me disagree, even if we can not produce an analogue (of which I doubt) you can always copy

        No, we can't. The Chinese in every yard spank microcircuits, video cards, etc. We have no production. and "if there is" then only piece production. For the Army, we cannot produce our own. Show me a computer with a motherboard from, well, one of ours. Probably both the telephone and the TV in your house are all Russian-made .. Don't tell the EXPERTS.
        1. lelikas
          lelikas April 13 2013 13: 25 New
          0
          You have not seen for a long time what they write on the nameplates of TV sets - 90% of the sold TV sets are assembled with us.
          The production or copying of sights is not an impossible task - it’s just that it’s much more profitable to invest (and saw) the loot in the production of the most ridiculous and expensive school tablets in the world.
        2. xetai9977
          xetai9977 11 May 2013 20: 24 New
          0
          totally agree
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach April 12 2013 16: 16 New
      +2
      French Thales.
      You got ahead of me. )))
      OJSC Rosoboronexport on June 11, 2012 at the Eurosatori-2012 exhibition (June 11-15, 2012, Paris, France) signed a license agreement with the French company Thales Optronics for the production of new generation thermal imaging cameras Katrin -XPi "(Catherine XP) on the basis of JSC" Vologda Optical and Mechanical Plant ". In addition, a contract was signed for the repair of components for thermal imaging cameras manufactured by Thales Optronic in Russia.

      http://vpk.name/news/70542_v_rossii_budut_proizvodit_francuzskie_teplovizoryi_no
      vogo_pokoleniya.html
      1. dmitreach
        dmitreach April 12 2013 16: 25 New
        -1
        Opinion of Igor Korotchenko:
        It seems that we can not do without cooperation with the French.

        Sagem has completely updated its product line in the field of optoelectronic systems. According to the estimates of the world's leading analysts in the market of optical electronic technologies, until 2020 the development of cooled infrared technologies will receive an additional impetus due to the development of Sagem serial production of full-format matrix photodetectors in 640x512 format, which will allow the company to finally establish itself as the world's leading enterprise in the thermal imaging market technicians.

        VAMPIR NG system.

        In this context, the new (so-called “fourth”) generation of thermal imaging channels with a range of recognition of tank targets of about 6 km looks particularly attractive, allowing due to a fundamentally new algorithmic processing to successfully carry out a combat mission in conditions of bright flashes, salt fog, smoke, quartz storms and low temperatures. Particular attention in the creation of this generation of products is given to providing firing from large-caliber guns, as well as guided missile weapons.

        http://i-korotchenko.livejournal.com/556510.html
      2. sashka
        sashka April 12 2013 18: 18 New
        0
        Quote: dmitreach
        You got ahead of me. )))

        I’m sorry .. I’ll be corrected. Only after you ..)))
    3. Andrey57
      Andrey57 April 12 2013 17: 34 New
      0
      Not just like that - for sure! He drank the dough all the same, and our thermal imagers are no worse than French ones, and laser rangefinders for tanks are even better than mattresses and work on 1km further, moreover, this is the opinion of mattress tankers who fought in Iraq.
      1. sashka
        sashka April 12 2013 18: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrey57
        and our thermal imagers are no worse than French ones, and laser rangefinders for tanks are even better than mattresses and work 1km further,

        "Colonel" In what gateway did you hear IT. I want to go there too .. WILL BE Proud .. Can I? Give the address. I'm flying ..
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 April 12 2013 19: 46 New
          +7
          Name the address. I'm flying.

          Fly, fly, horseradish eagle, here’s the address of Vladikavkaz, North Caucasus Military District 58th Army, 19th Voronezh-Shumlenskaya Red Banner of the Order of Suvorov II degree and the Red Banner of Labor separate motorized rifle brigade. There you can find both thermal imagers and rangefinders at PRP scouts.
          1. sashka
            sashka April 13 2013 08: 04 New
            -2
            Quote: Corsair5912
            Name the address. I'm flying.

            Fly, fly, horseradish eagle, here’s the address of Vladikavkaz, North Caucasus Military District 58th Army, 19th Voronezh-Shumlenskaya Red Banner of the Order of Suvorov II degree and the Red Banner of Labor separate motorized rifle brigade. There you can find both thermal imagers and rangefinders at PRP scouts.

            Do you think so? (this is not a mistake) Name the production where they make 5000000 chips per month .. Together we have a laugh.
          2. xetai9977
            xetai9977 11 May 2013 20: 25 New
            0
            and will they give? ...
      2. Combitor
        Combitor April 13 2013 04: 31 New
        0
        Andrey57, "mattress" is about Americans? Just a new definition came across. Pi ... the moderator will no longer start up without distortion.
        1. xetai9977
          xetai9977 11 May 2013 20: 26 New
          0
          every time something new ......
    4. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 April 12 2013 19: 36 New
      +9
      Bullshit on ignorance and incompetence.
      Our plants are closed, and then they scream that we do not have such equipment, that we have a backlog. This ay France in the days of the USSR did not have anything of its own, they bought everything from the Yusovites or tyril in the USSR.
      We have a plant in our city that worked for the defense industry, producing crystals for lasers, alloys for optics, ultra-powerful magnets and ultra-pure metals and alloys for microtechnics and electronics, now there is still equipment, specialists, technologies, but production has been suspended, and time will pass it will not be restored.
      The creatures who buy foreign technology are the enemies of Russia, they must be urgently destroyed.
      1. Michael-89
        Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 21 New
        -13
        The fact is that any NATO technology is one or two heads taller than a primitive Russian. Skeptics can be understood.
        1. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 12 2013 21: 48 New
          +9
          Yeah, the "primitive" Russian RPG-7 sews "super tanks" Abrams like cardboard .... And the irradiation of the American Shuttle with a "primitive" Russian laser locator with target selection (not a combat Terra-3, but a low-power LK-1) discouraged them from hunting fly over Sary-Shagan for a very long time .... And the "primitive" S-300s of the pi ndos are still not close to sales .... So let's not talk about "primitive" Russian technology ... Read less "Red Storm "for the night ... hi
          1. Michael-89
            Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 00 New
            -5
            Proof of breaking RPG-7 Abrams into the studio! And about primitiveness - it is.
            1. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 19 New
              +2
              Yes, no question, you can look at the tube yourself))))) And in general, it will stop ANY tank in the tracks ... Especially for you tomorrow I will post pictures with the penetration of the abrasha not only from the RPG, but also from the 25mm M2 Bradley cannon. ..
              1. Michael-89
                Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 21 New
                -1
                Why not today?
                1. Raven1972
                  Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 25 New
                  +1
                  Too lazy to throw from the second computer ... Go far ... hi
                  1. Michael-89
                    Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 27 New
                    0
                    Very expected.
                    1. Raven1972
                      Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 35 New
                      0
                      No, actually laziness ... hi
            2. Raven1972
              Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 41 New
              +3
              Yeah))) Just something in NATO, so far nothing even close to the S-300 has appeared, and the much-praised Aegis knocks down a missile going along a pre-calculated path and equipped with a lighthouse - apparently otherwise you can’t get into that damned missile) ))) And with us from the 60s A-135 stands on duty and knocks down ANY missile
              1. Michael-89
                Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 45 New
                -7
                And where does the S-300 to the A-135 in general? But Aegis is still the 21st century. Patriots the worse the S-300?
                1. Raven1972
                  Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 50 New
                  +4
                  And you read and compare the characteristics of the Patriot and S-300, and you will see for yourself ...
                  And about Aegis and A-135 - Aegis has just been created, and it’s very crooked, and the A-135 is already working and modernizing from year to year ... So there’s nothing to talk about, in addition to Aegis there are more praises than there are real possibilities .... But some things I agree with you - that due to lack of funding, we have bent for almost 20 years all R&D ((((((((((
                  1. BIGLESHIY
                    BIGLESHIY April 13 2013 04: 12 New
                    0
                    The Aegis system appeared on the Ticonderoga-class cruisers, and this is about 20 years ago, although it was crooked at that time, but amers modernize it constantly - "align"
                    1. Raven1972
                      Raven1972 April 13 2013 12: 04 New
                      0
                      And the A-135 was created more than 40 years ago - it has long been aligned)))) in rocket science we have always been 30-40 years ahead of them (sales, we are trying to keep the brand)
                    2. xetai9977
                      xetai9977 11 May 2013 20: 27 New
                      0
                      modernization is ongoing
                2. anarh
                  anarh April 13 2013 02: 58 New
                  0
                  The fact that they are not patriots.
        2. vvvrus39
          vvvrus39 April 12 2013 23: 08 New
          +3
          The result of the information war. In this case, "them" will win.
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 12 2013 23: 22 New
            +3
            Yes sir !!!!! As in due time with SOI they caught a wave - and things are still there .... soldier
      2. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 12 2013 20: 32 New
        +2
        We have a plant in our city that worked for the defense industry, producing crystals for lasers, alloys for optics, ultra-powerful magnets and ultra-pure metals and alloys for microtechnics and electronics, now there is still equipment, specialists, technologies, but production has been suspended, and time will pass it will not be restored.

        Corsair, are you from Kaluga for an hour? The description reminded me of my own P / O "Granat", we also did all this, and even developed new materials ... hi
      3. dmitreach
        dmitreach April 12 2013 21: 37 New
        +1
        This ay France in the days of the USSR did not have anything of its own, they bought everything from the Yusovites or tyril in the USSR.

        Corsair5912, France during the Soviet era was the only geyropeyskoy power to resist NADO near Omeryga. Fact.

        1965 - the year of de Gaulle's re-election for a second presidential term - was the year of two attacks on the policies of the NATO bloc. February 4, the general announces the refusal to use the dollar in international payments and the transition to a single gold standard. In the spring of 1965, a French ship delivered US $ 750 million to the United States - the first tranche of $ 1,5 billion France intended to exchange for gold. [Source not specified 529 days] On September 9, the president says that France does not consider itself bound by obligations to the North Atlantic bloc . On February 21, 1966, France withdrew from the NATO military organization, and the organization’s headquarters was urgently transferred from Paris to Brussels. In an official note, the Pompidou government announced the evacuation of 29 bases with 33 thousand personnel from the country.
        Since that time, the official position of France in international politics has become sharply anti-American.
    5. Grey68
      Grey68 April 12 2013 23: 32 New
      +2
      The purchase of foreign equipment is the norm only for "African countries", for us this should be an exception. If we want to live in our country.
      1. Warbringer
        Warbringer April 12 2013 23: 33 New
        -7
        Once again I repeat: if our military industrial complex cannot do anything normally, purchase foreign equipment only output.
    6. zvereok
      zvereok April 13 2013 03: 16 New
      0
      I know the first in the thermal imaging cameras of the United States, they produce the last generation. But with Europe, if we are behind, then not by much.
    7. taseka
      taseka April 13 2013 05: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Alex_dex
      The purchase of foreign equipment is the norm and good
      - it may be a blessing, but a war will break out and these French thermal imagers on our Nizhne-Tagil tanks will break, and what will be the "norm" to drive without them? Or will the enemies, based on economic benefits, continue to sell them to us through the country of Tumba-Yumba?
    8. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 April 13 2013 06: 23 New
      0
      Though not. But, as always, he asks himself questions, but answers 0. But "Pristina" was taken by his order.
    9. Suhov
      Suhov April 13 2013 06: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Alex_dex
      What kind of insanity does this theorist have?

      In Soviet times something that they could not do themselves as well as to circumvent all kinds of prohibitions bought from an adversary through third countries. And they did not consider this shameful.
      And pride, moreover, well-grounded pride, in those days was more than enough.
      Now the opportunity has appeared to make all purchases openly, directly. Moreover, some samples are given for testing - such as ride, shoot and if you like, we will sell them to you. This can not but rejoice.
      hi
      Well, give me a cigarette, you have trousers in a strip!
      laughing
    10. svp67
      svp67 April 13 2013 12: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Alex_dex
      The purchase of foreign equipment is a norm and a blessing, but no, why do we need suitable equipment for the army, we want aluminum and "Karusel", and if it has no analogues, then this is generally a dream


      This is not a "GOOD", but a "FORCED MEASURE" and if there is even the slightest possibility, then more than one independent state does not go for it ...
    11. vlad.1924
      vlad.1924 April 13 2013 13: 24 New
      0
      Why should Russian officials "take a steam bath" to develop Russian production, when you can simply declare that we do not have such a thing and conclude a contract for the purchase of a necessary military device with a foreign company and at the same time have a percentage ... But Russia is not some African country or the Arab Emirates. .. It's a shame for the state ...
  2. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 April 12 2013 15: 55 New
    18
    I immediately remembered the French planes purchased by Libya, which miraculously stopped working when NATO began to barrage the territory of Libya
    1. Andrey57
      Andrey57 April 12 2013 17: 35 New
      +6
      In the same way, not one Mirage took off in Iraq !!!!!
      1. servant
        servant April 12 2013 17: 41 New
        +2
        Did Migi take off?
        1. Alex_dex
          Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 44 New
          -4
          No, but at least they weren’t buried in the sand like in Iraq, which is already a plus.
        2. BIGLESHIY
          BIGLESHIY April 13 2013 04: 18 New
          +1
          The bookmark system in electronics and software worked like mirages and did not fly, and MiGs flew at the beginning of the war and then stopped, since there was nothing to take off, the amers bombed all the ATPs with missiles.
    2. Combitor
      Combitor April 13 2013 04: 37 New
      0
      Sasha 19871987, the same can happen to Serdyukov's Mistrals. It is quite possible that at the X hour their engines simply will not start.
  3. z-exit
    z-exit April 12 2013 16: 05 New
    +5
    The article is too small to publish. It was necessary to illuminate in more detail the situation with at least the same French thermal imagers, and better across the entire spectrum of military equipment purchased for the cordon. We would read and discuss.
    Only one article is clear that there are still patriotic deputies in our country (respect to Vyacheslav Tetekin!). But again, how justified is this zeal in this matter? Who will supplement the situation with thermal imagers?
  4. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee April 12 2013 16: 05 New
    11
    That's it, your defense industry needs to be maintained and developed so that it does not depend on abroad fool
    1. Combitor
      Combitor April 13 2013 04: 41 New
      -1
      Uncle Lee, our military-industrial complex will not be allowed to develop by another "military-industrial complex" ("Vladimir Putin Corporation"). Until this "company" is liquidated, and all its directors are not isolated on O.
  5. rugor
    rugor April 12 2013 16: 12 New
    +8
    Our defense industry needs to be stimulated not only with money, but with stringent requirements and deadlines for their implementation. Unable to produce - go ahead, paint the fence on the other hand. And in place of the grief of leaders, plant normal managers motivated by the example of their predecessors. Buy abroad only for the purpose of familiarization and industrial espionage!
    1. Combitor
      Combitor April 13 2013 04: 44 New
      -1
      rugor, what the hell industrial espionage! If “spies” like Anka Chapman “work” abroad, will they “spy on” a lot of industrial things there?
  6. Asgard
    Asgard April 12 2013 16: 15 New
    13
    It's not a crime if the state is the level of Ghana or Mauritania ... but there were attempts, "effective managers" and they were successful - "Menstrual", for BB and FSB pistols @ Glock @, the same "Lynx-Iveco" from a friend of Berlusconi ... Putin then drove him the UAZ-Patriot))) one))) Although there are a lot of UAZ-469s driving around Italy, they respect this car there))) In Karera he went to a marble quarry and saw our UAZs at the staff.
    From the state-va where, as Vysotsky sang - "a quarter of our people" early. The General Staff pushed through the purchase of a UAV, then there was an unpleasant story near Krasnoyarsk at NPO Vector, where the drone got out of control of the Russian operator, flew around the territory of warehouses with chemical weapons somewhere, transmitted telemetry and sat down on the territory of a secret Object)))
    another interesting story with MVK-2, this laptop is from Taiwan, packed to the eyeballs with a spy code, and they are issued to officers for coordination of actions in the troops http://www.rg.ru/2012/10/05/shpien.html
    we had such "purchases" ... I think everyone knew about them (sanctioned)), since the "vertical of power"))))
  7. xmike
    xmike April 12 2013 16: 18 New
    +5
    Testing interesting and promising technology and "mastering" other people's technologies a la China, our airplanes are GOOD. But buying in large quantities is BAD.
  8. JonnyT
    JonnyT April 12 2013 16: 30 New
    +2
    Okay figs with him to buy foreign pieces of iron, but electronics is already an undermining of defense !!!
    Politicians do not learn anything and do not want to study _ all thoughts about the dough. God forbid, the war will begin immediately with the super-duper UAV super-duper, communications and coordination, electronic warfare, satellites, etc. will come to an end. Ivek will end. And here is a surprise - but there is no production of your own! There is an assembly, but there is no fundamental production (such as the production of microchips for control units)! So what? With a pitchfork on the tank have to climb ???
    Before, as far as I know, weapons were also bought over the hill, but not in bulk. To study, to develop the most viable concept. All the best was transferred to our production, and was not completely replaced as it is now!
    1. Alex_dex
      Alex_dex April 12 2013 16: 37 New
      -9
      For reference: the Russian and the empire and the USSR bought weapons abroad. RI was generally fully armed with imports. The legendary Varyag is riveted in the states, "homosexuals", as you say here. Maxim there too. The legendary BT is a chassis from the American Christie tank. Almost all effective aces of the Second World War flew on Airacobras.
      1. sashka
        sashka April 12 2013 18: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Alex_dex
        For reference: the Russian and the empire and the USSR bought weapons abroad. RI was generally fully armed with imports. The legendary Varyag is riveted in the states, "homosexuals", as you say here. Maxim there

        WAR has changed .. AND TIME is the same. You can and should only think forward, backward does not make sense .. "Backlog" is needed, at least in Dreams. And anyone can stamp on and promise. I can do that too.
      2. dima1970
        dima1970 April 12 2013 19: 51 New
        +2
        This is something new. The Yak-3 and La-5 were always among the best fighters of the Second World War, and the aerial cobra was not seen there.
        1. Michael-89
          Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 55 New
          +2
          Pokryshkin, Rechkalov, Gulaev. Alex obviously means them.
        2. Waterfall
          Waterfall April 12 2013 20: 05 New
          -1
          Yakovlevsky lightweight sports and aerobatic aircraft are unlikely to pull on the title of the best fighter, whatever one may say.
          Quote: dima1970
          La-5

          "Clean" La-5 with M-82A produced in summer-autumn 42 - the best ??? Are you kidding or kidding? At least La-5FN 44g said, or La-7. And then with nuances.
          1. ty60
            ty60 April 13 2013 00: 32 New
            0
            the engine of the designer Shvetsov ASh-82 subsequently-Ash82FN was installed on the LA-5 and TU-2
        3. sashka
          sashka April 12 2013 20: 14 New
          0
          Quote: dima1970
          This is something new. The Yak-3 and La-5 were always among the best fighters of the Second World War, and the aerial cobra was not seen there.

          But in vain .. Not profitable .. Who and what brought down and on what? Take a look. I am surprised. Kozhedub and Pokryshkin flew on different planes? Search 100500 links and find them.
          The fact is that We collect "FACTS" bit by bit. And you play on the keys. Feel the DIFFERENCE "Underdog"
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 12 2013 21: 28 New
            +4
            Once again, you should list on what I.N. Kozhedub? So, for fun ...
            La-5 (flight number 75) La-5 fn (flight number 14) La-7 (flight number 27)
            1. sashka
              sashka April 13 2013 08: 12 New
              -1
              Quote: Raven1972
              Once again, you should list on what I.N. Kozhedub? So, for fun ...
              La-5 (flight number 75) La-5 fn (flight number 14) La-7 (flight number 27)

              No ..






























































              do not .. I got excited .. All the same, the names are well-known and go in the same row ..
      3. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 April 12 2013 20: 17 New
        +7
        Complete nonsense.
        First, the RI army was more than half armed with its own weapons, and if by the standards of peacetime, then it was 100% complete.
        Secondly, in those days many countries (Japan, for example) ordered ships from "homosexuals" it was cheaper than starting from scratch their production.
        Thirdly, the BT tank was completely produced in the USSR, and the chassis of the American tank was just a prototype, a model, and even then not for long.
        Fourth, the Aero Cobra - R-39, was homogeneous, not a plane, it had to be modified already in combat conditions, most Soviet aces flew on the Yak-1, Yak-3, Yak-9, La-5, La-7 and etc. Pokryshkin flew to Yak-1942 until 1, then to R-39, Kozhedub flew to La-5, Lugansky to Yaks ... (Asy Stalin, T. Polak, K. Shourz, M. 2006; One hundred Stalin Sokolov, Sat. M.2005.)
        1. ty60
          ty60 April 13 2013 00: 06 New
          +2
          I agree, refer to the memoirs of the aces mentioned!
      4. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 12 2013 21: 12 New
        +2
        Og, only now Kozhedub for some reason flew the whole war to La-5, La-5FN, La-7 like most of our pilots, so we won’t talk about the aerial cobras and hurricanes that were few and they didn’t decide the outcome of the war ... By the way, it was on La-7 that Kozhedub planted 2 Americans on the best American Mustang fighter at that time ... On La-7, he shot down the Me-262 .... And Christie’s tank is BT-2 and not BT-5 or BT-7, BT-5 and BT-7 were already purely our design ...
        1. Waterfall
          Waterfall April 12 2013 21: 14 New
          -1
          "Airacobra was one", are you crazy ???
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 12 2013 21: 30 New
            +2
            Compared to the number of fighter jets released - a few ... Isn’t that so? And they didn’t make much weather ... Even in the memoirs of GERMAN pilots, for some reason, La, Yak, MiG appear, but aerial cobras somehow flew past the ticket office ...
          2. sashka
            sashka April 13 2013 00: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Wasserfall
            "Airacobra was one", are you crazy ???

            Learn History. It will become easier with the head ..
            1. matross
              matross April 15 2013 21: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Sasha
              Learn History

              Wasser is right, a rare case smile
              In the USSR, under Lend-Lease from the USA and Great Britain, 4578 Aero Cobra of modifications P-400, P-39D, N, Q, TP-39D, F was delivered. Those. almost half of the total number produced - 9590
              Source: WWII aircraft, reference book edited by Obukhovich V.A., Kulbaki S.P., Sidorenko S.I., 2003
      5. ty60
        ty60 April 13 2013 00: 01 New
        +2
        TIRES FLY ON COBRA. Lugansk on the Yaks, Kozhedub on LA-5
      6. BIGLESHIY
        BIGLESHIY April 13 2013 04: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Alex_dex
        For reference: the Russian and the empire and the USSR bought weapons abroad. RI was generally fully armed with imports. The legendary Varyag is riveted in the states, "homosexuals", as you say here. Maxim there too. The legendary BT is a chassis from the American Christie tank. Almost all effective aces of the Second World War flew on Airacobras.


        And how else to call homosexuals? not straight people.
        And what do you advocate and admire them with rear-wheel drive for all the themes, do you yourself think so? Yesterday, in a couple of hours, you went to the desulphuris for your shattering of all Soviet (Russian) equipment.
      7. Combitor
        Combitor April 13 2013 04: 51 New
        0
        Alex_dex, I remember in Ancient Russia the Slavs also used "imported" bows with arrows and swords.
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 13 2013 13: 20 New
          0
          Quote: Kombitor
          I remember in Ancient Russia the Slavs also used "imported" bows with arrows and swords.

          Yes, but only on those that remained, for some reason, the inscriptions in Russian request
      8. svp67
        svp67 April 13 2013 12: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Alex_dex
        For reference: the Russian and the empire and the USSR bought weapons abroad. RI was generally fully armed with imports. The legendary Varyag is riveted in the states, "homosexuals", as you say here. Maxim there too. The legendary BT is a chassis from the American Christie tank. Almost all effective aces of the Second World War flew on Airacobras.


        Omitting shipbuilding, let us discuss the issue of "import" in the armament of the ground forces and aviation.
        - Yes, our army was armed with "maxims", and also "revolvers", but all these weapons were produced at Russian factories and were no longer imported from anywhere. Moreover, the famous "three-line", after all, is also not fully developed by Mosin, there are many developments of the Belgian Nagant, but this is a "Russian" rifle.
        -btshki and T26 the same ...
        - it's a little more difficult with planes. Yes, our pilots fought on foreign planes and in many respects they surpassed ours, but here it is not our designers who are to blame, but the fact that the USSR only moved from the "agrarian" to the "industrial" club. And our industry was just being created, so where did the excellent aircraft engines come from? And without them - where are the excellent planes ...
    2. dmitreach
      dmitreach April 12 2013 16: 51 New
      -1
      Union program passport
      The implementation period is 2010-2013.
      The goal is the creation of an import-substituting component base for national economic use and strategically important systems and weapons.
      Financing - 509,8 million Russian rubles from each side.
      Rltat - 68 types of fundamentally new microelectronic devices.

      Article: Decided to take for the "Basis".
      Minsk JSC "Peleng" became famous in the Union State for its devices for spacecraft. Recently, a unique "eye" was created here, capable of distinguishing objects up to 50 centimeters in size from orbit.

      Moreover, microcircuits of no less famous Minsk JSC "Integral" were used. And they were created in accordance with the Union scientific and technical program for the development and production of electronic components for special and dual-use equipment, for short - "Basis" It is coming to an end this year. What are the results? The SOYUZ correspondent went to Integral for the answer.

      We note first how important the products of this enterprise are for the most sensitive areas of the Union State. First of all, defense capability.

      http://vpk.name/news/88010_resheno_vzyat_za_osnovu.html
    3. Combitor
      Combitor April 13 2013 04: 48 New
      0
      JonnyT (3), I believe that in the west you can buy single (!) Weapons only in order to study them "by cogs" and create our countermeasures.
  9. andrey903
    andrey903 April 12 2013 16: 41 New
    -1
    On thermal imagers, only French matrices, ours are, but worse
    1. sashka
      sashka April 12 2013 19: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: andrey903
      On thermal imagers, only French matrices, ours are, but worse

      Well, and the article is quite the opposite. There is not a single gram of meaning .. As long as there is Gas, why the heck "think"? We have Oil .. !! Why think and develop? I can't build a flying ship, so I will BUY it. ZASHIBIS. (As in a cartoon) Maybe we are also in the "Cartoon" ?!
  10. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 12 2013 16: 43 New
    0
    All the time just to declare and accuse is futile! Both the Belarusian "Peleng" and "Krasnogorskiy Zavod" declare that their products are French, but these are statements - there are not even comparative tables. Siberians are producing medical thermal imagers, and this does not mean yet about its possible use in the troops.

    You can even achieve the appropriate characteristics, but at the expense of reliability or mass-dimensional performance. There was a joke about Petka’s electronic wristwatch and a suitcase with a battery - for developers of military equipment, the size indicator is of great importance.
    We need not words and presentations of prototypes, but professional comparative tests!
  11. nikolas 83
    nikolas 83 April 12 2013 16: 55 New
    +3
    Buying weapons for our country abroad is a crime. We ourselves can do no worse than in the West and even better. Closing military factories and purchasing Western weapons means feeding a foreign army. fool Serdyukov uniquely impose on the stake.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 14 New
      -6
      Quote: nikolas 83
      We ourselves can do no worse than in the west

      Just do nothing. Cardboard armored personnel carriers, of which safe dismounting of a landing party is simply impossible, T-72/90 self-propelled turret launchers, useless luminescent landing boxes with melons and other good without tasks.
      1. Alex_dex
        Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 23 New
        -4
        I agree with you. Could not do as in object 1200. The guys from Bryansk offered an excellent concept in the USSR, it’s a pity that they refused, there is also a way out from the stern, and a low silhouette, and unification with the behi. A breakthrough for their time, we would have been half a century ahead of Nata, but no, we don’t want to, we want to climb through the minks into the APCs, through the roof.
        1. Warbringer
          Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 29 New
          -4
          Object 1200 is still approved in terms of layout of the landing compartment. But yes, better than the BTR-60-70-80 series.
          1. Alex_dex
            Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 31 New
            -3
            What's wrong with him?
            1. Warbringer
              Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 35 New
              -1
              MTO grabbed half of the stern. A narrow passage in which three bodies sit and the main compartment where the rest sit.
              1. Alex_dex
                Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 38 New
                -4
                Like something bad. But what a concept, yes, yes, this is not a dream! In general, this is little Patria.
    2. ty60
      ty60 April 13 2013 00: 08 New
      0
      Strangle with whore
  12. Sevastopol
    Sevastopol April 12 2013 16: 59 New
    0
    The purchase of single copies is only a blessing. And if more - a crime.
    1. Alex_dex
      Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 02 New
      -7
      That is, the purchase of Lynx in the number of 1700 pieces is a crime?
      1. Warbringer
        Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 08 New
        -2
        Yeah. Crime against soldiers who on the same tiger in case of its destruction will be smeared. Blood of the intestine and hereinafter.
      2. dmitreach
        dmitreach April 12 2013 17: 11 New
        0
        It is a crime when the purchase of Rysey is carried out under the article "medical equipment", with the aim of squeezing out 20% on import duties. The lynx, as the best car in its class, is not a crime.
        1. Alex_dex
          Alex_dex April 12 2013 17: 13 New
          -6
          That is, you don’t protest against the fact that MPA worthy of 2013 will appear in the army? And then I already thought that it was unpatriotic.
          1. dmitreach
            dmitreach April 12 2013 17: 24 New
            -1
            it is unpatriotic.

            Before judging, I prefer to dig deeper into the issue, so as not to become like a ko-ko-ko-granny from an import that sells seeds.
            Lynx, in principle, is an excellent machine, with some drawbacks. I am for. Implementation in Russia is lame - a fact. Sawing is the same fact. But this is not related to the performance characteristics of the machine.
        2. ty60
          ty60 April 13 2013 00: 11 New
          +5
          Svets in Russia are sour. At minus temperatures, complete shit.
      3. servant
        servant April 12 2013 17: 13 New
        0
        http://topwar.ru/26731-ispytaniya-protivominnoy-zaschity-avtomobilya-iveco-65e19
        wm.html #
        Well, if the purchase of such equipment is a crime, then what are the fighters on the armor of our equipment because inside there is no chance of surviving undermining .... And are our latest models comparable even with a little bit of this technique ...
        1. Andrey57
          Andrey57 April 12 2013 17: 50 New
          +2
          You, dear, first read what the APC is intended for, and then criticize, and the fact that they are used for other purposes is not the fault of the designers, it is the fault of big boys with big stars on uniform.
          1. servant
            servant April 12 2013 17: 59 New
            0
            Goofy! And well, the armored personnel carrier is not designed to transport drugs and protect it from damage? And why is he so good if the soldiers are afraid to get into it in the war and ride on the armor? And why from the hopelessness of the Urals reinforce improvised means?
            1. Alex_dex
              Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 05 New
              -5
              They are not good at all. Soviet armored personnel carriers are coffins on wheels, thank God that now the Moscow Region understood and ordered the human Boomerang, which even though it has analogues in the world, which is like a knife to the heart, but it also has tasks.
              1. Warbringer
                Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 09 New
                -1
                Nevertheless, a boomerang is still in development, and modern armored personnel carriers are modern in fact. There is a wonderful Stryker family, there is a suitable Patria AMV, there is a GTK Boxer. We have only cardboard BTR-80 and its derivatives.
      4. svp67
        svp67 April 13 2013 12: 59 New
        0
        Quote: Alex_dex
        That is, the purchase of Lynx in the number of 1700 pieces is a crime?



        Yes, by and large - a crime. If IVECA is so good, then it was necessary to establish their production at our factories.
    2. sashka
      sashka April 12 2013 19: 35 New
      -2
      Quote: Sevastopolets
      The purchase of single copies is only a blessing. And if more - a crime.

      Buying is already a crime. It seems that the brains themselves do not have so "learn" from the West .. What a PAIN.
      1. rapid1934
        rapid1934 April 12 2013 19: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Sasha
        Quote: Sevastopolets
        The purchase of single copies is only a blessing. And if more - a crime.

        Buying is already a crime. It seems that the brains themselves do not have so "learn" from the West .. What a PAIN.

        No need to wave a saber; there was always a reasonable compromise.
        With the creation of each new model of military equipment even under the USSR, there was a "List of foreign-made elements permitted for use in the Armed Forces" hi
      2. ty60
        ty60 April 13 2013 00: 14 New
        0
        Piece-purchase for studying. Mass-crime.
        1. Warbringer
          Warbringer April 13 2013 00: 15 New
          -3
          Hey there, in the dispenser, replace this scoop. he broke down.
          1. ty60
            ty60 April 13 2013 00: 36 New
            +2
            go to the tundra on foot.
    3. sashka
      sashka April 12 2013 19: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Sevastopolets
      The purchase of single copies is only a blessing. And if more - a crime.

      Good for whom? Here I have "Dewdrop" instead of "windows". And you? .. Is there Gas in your apartment? And there is a government decree on the transition to Free Software. From 17.2010 10 or 11 months .. And you "fulfill" it?: Patriots .. You pay money to Amers without hesitation. And everything is waiting for the crisis .. They will get out on you.
  13. Warbringer
    Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 06 New
    0
    science and industry produce exactly the same appliances

    Are these any? Miserable and unreliable AGAVA-2, which was subsequently abandoned on the T-80U, lol?
  14. Canep
    Canep April 12 2013 17: 37 New
    +4
    "Nevertheless, the deputy is surprised, French thermal imagers are now being installed on our tanks, despite the fact that domestic science and industry produces exactly the same devices." - In Ekibastuz, when purchasing new excavators in the early 2000s, the main contender was the Krasnoyarsk machine. The French from "Liebherr" learned about this (there are divisions in France), they sent "their" person with knowledge of the Russian language and the peculiarities of the national business, as well as with a suitcase of euros. He "spun" and the management of the mine bought their excavators, and even in a tropical version, hydraulic fluid is like petroleum jelly, and in the cold it became like bitumen. 72 complaints for 9 months of work. Maybe the same scheme was with thermal imagers.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 17: 44 New
      0
      Quote: Canep
      Maybe with thermal imagers the same scheme was.

      With thermal imagers, everything is much simpler - domestic rare rubbish, and French ones - the only thing that was available on the market. True, instead of thermal imagers for the T-90 turret thrower, it was necessary to immediately buy Leclerc and buy ..
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 12 2013 21: 58 New
        +1


        Here is your Leclerc, watch and admire ... I can also hang out the Italian Ariette for the kit, so that it becomes completely clear ... hi
        1. lx
          lx April 13 2013 02: 52 New
          -1
          These are tales from the same series as the article under discussion. The fact is that the Leclerc’s of the UAE Armed Forces continue to be in service, and the Arabs think to change BMP-3 and it’s possible that the French are VBCI. In general, the degree of absurdity of the tales of this Suvorov is characterized by the fact of comparing these machines, which are completely different in class and purpose.
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 13 2013 11: 53 New
            +1
            They don’t think and are not going to ... It’s not necessary to wishful thinking, because that the eclairs didn’t prove themselves by any means at all, he even managed to fight the Abrash ... So we won’t, the more praises - the more problems with operation, especially with western equipment ... Time-tested already ... hi
            And as for the different classes of cars - here the comparison is not in class, here is the conversation that BMPs completed the task, but the eclairs did not, they did not even budge, that’s the question ...
            1. lx
              lx April 13 2013 13: 07 New
              0
              "Don't wishful thinking" in-in. Even this dreamer Suvorov did not say in this video that the BMP completed the task, but the leclerk did not.
              A special gem - "the on-board computer works only at a temperature of 25C + -1". However, it is possible that he does not quite fantasize and the French just made fun of him.
              Regarding the replacement of the BMP-3 - this is already so well known (the Arabs make inquiries to the leading Western manufacturers in this regard, while it is possible that our tower will be used) that I do not even see the point of giving a specific link here - the search engine is easy gives out hundreds of links to "UAE replacement BMP-3"
              PS: In general, this Suvorov Sergey Viktorovich is a spokesman for the Military-Industrial Company CJSC. So for him, such a race is normal.
              PPS: where does abrasha come from - it's not at all clear.
              1. Raven1972
                Raven1972 April 16 2013 17: 18 New
                0
                Abrash? Despite the fact that Abrash fought and is fighting, but there is no eclair))) He never participated in real databases .... so that the price was penniless on market day ... I honestly bought an abram better than an eclair ... At least its shortcomings are already known unlike eclair ....
                And about the fact that electronics works at +25 - the way it is, remember for yourself how the computer works when it overheats? So it doesn’t smell like jokes .... For that, it’s worth the condition to maintain a microclimate for the normal operation of the equipment .... hi
                1. lx
                  lx April 25 2013 17: 31 New
                  0
                  Ohhh, so you are so technically uneducated that you have so little idea of ​​the computer you are working on. (((Even a home computer has a working temperature range of at least 20 degrees, what can we say about the military
  15. Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich April 12 2013 17: 58 New
    +2
    Serdyukovschina lives and wins, he at least stuffed his pocket, and some support the purchase of military equipment abroad out of stupidity. HISTORY AND BIG BLOOD it has been proven for Russia that all military equipment and equipment must be produced in the country, in the event of war / when it’s too late / comes to all who want victory in their country.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 03 New
      0
      Quote: Semyon Albertovich
      all military equipment and equipment must be produced in the country

      Yes, only it should not be developed in the country. As practice shows, scammers live in the vast post of the USSR. Western models are licensed - please, at least a car kit, at least from scratch. Although the car kits are better - nothing can be screwed up there, unlike assembling from scratch, where a buzzing operator-machine operator will inevitably reject the entire series.
      1. Alex_dex
        Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 08 New
        0
        I can also remind you of the memorable BTR-4, with wooden floors and blue electrical tape.
  16. nikolas 83
    nikolas 83 April 12 2013 17: 58 New
    +3
    I see everyone criticizing our equipment. Well, there are drawbacks. So now do you buy tanks and planes abroad? I was shocked when I found out that we were buying Mistral. Well, at least Shoigu forbade it. We can build such ships ourselves. Let us buy uniforms then in China. But everything is bad, judging by the comments.
  17. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak April 12 2013 18: 01 New
    -2
    It is interesting that Mr. Deputy speaks about the capabilities of our scientists in modeling processes and no launches are needed. Our scientists hanged noodles for him. No simulations will save you without full-scale tests. Want an example? You are welcome. The brightest example of this is the Marussia F1 Team, headed by Nikolai Fomenko. They also planned to outwit everyone with modeling, but in the end they spat on this venture with relish, kicked out the "specialist" who promoted this idea and, like everyone else, moved on to blowing the car in a wind tunnel. Probably our scientists do not know this yet.
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach April 12 2013 18: 35 New
      -2
      switched to purging the car in the wind tunnel. Probably our scientists do not know this yet.

      is it hitting the staff of VIAM or the "Central Research Institute named after academician AN Krylov" in St. Petersburg?
      1. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak April 12 2013 19: 57 New
        -2
        Quote: dmitreach
        this is a collision with employees

        And on their leaders. At all in a row. It was a long time ago. A comrade arrived who graduated from MIIT and when he saw Radio Engineering-003 he began to convince that there could be no amplifiers with a transformerless output, because they are not in nature. But what about, specialist! I had to open and demonstrate. Excuse me, what are you talking about better than my friend?
  18. sibircat
    sibircat April 12 2013 18: 10 New
    0
    Vyacheslav Nikolaevich Tetyokin: biography
    Birthday October 02, 1949
    Russian politician
    Biography

    In 1966 he graduated from high school in the city of Borisov, Minsk Region.
    He began his career as a car mechanic in \ h 59952 (Borisov).
    In 1972, he graduated from the translation department of the Minsk State Pedagogical Institute of Foreign Languages.
    1972 — 1974 - Translator at the Agricultural Mechanization Training Center in Uganda.
    From October 1974, then from 1976 to 1978. - An employee of the Office of External Relations of the USSR State Committee for Vocational Education.
    From December 1974 to December 1975 - Service in the Soviet Army in the Kingissep Brigade of the 6th Army of the Air Defense Forces. Operator of the starting battery for the S-200 anti-aircraft missile system. Lance Sergeant.
    From 1978 to 1981, an employee of the Organizing Committee of the Olympics-80 (Africa Department). He took an active part in mobilizing African sports delegations to participate in the Games, which contributed to the disruption of the Western plans for a boycott of the Moscow Olympics. According to the results of the work, he was awarded the medal “For Labor Valor”.
    In 1981-1996 - An employee of the Soviet Committee of Solidarity of Asia and Africa. In coordination with the Soviet special services, he was engaged in supporting the liberation movements of Southern Africa (ANC in South Africa and SWAPO in Namibia).
    In 1990 he graduated from the graduate school of the Institute of Asian and African Countries at Moscow State University, candidate of historical sciences. The theme of the dissertation is “The United Democratic Front of South Africa in the struggle against the apartheid regime (1983-1990)”.
    Member of the CPSU since 1988. Activist of the national-patriotic movement. Member of the defense of the Supreme Council in September - October 1993.
    From 1996 to January 2000 - consultant of the apparatus of the deputy group "Democracy" of the State Duma (leader - N. I. Ryzhkov); Executive Secretary of the Anti-NATO Commission of the State Duma.
    In 1997, he visited Nagorno-Karabakh with a study tour, where he expressed support for the liberation struggle of the people of Artsakh.
    Since September 1999 - Executive Secretary of the State Duma Commission on the compilation of information on NATO crimes against Yugoslavia.
    2000 to 2003 - employee of the apparatus of the Agro-industrial deputy group (leader - N. M. Kharitonov); Executive Secretary of the Assistance Commission of Yugoslavia in overcoming the consequences of NATO aggression. Member of the International Committee for the Defense of Slobodan Milosevic. He visited S. Milosevic several times in prison in The Hague.
    From January 2002 to 2010 - Member of the editorial board, deputy chief editor of the newspaper "Soviet Russia". In June 2004 he was elected a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party. Since November 2008 - a member of the Presidium and Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party.
    December 4, 2011 was elected to the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation of the sixth convocation from the Communist Party.
    Married, has two sons.


    He’s a good guy, but about the military-industrial complex, in my opinion, the idea is superficial.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 11 New
      0
      Executive Secretary of the Anti-NATO Commission

      Uncle he's not bad

      Divide by zero.
      1. sibircat
        sibircat April 12 2013 18: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: Warbringer
        Divide by zero.

        Are you lobbying for NATO on this site? Then we are out of the way.
        1. Warbringer
          Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 21 New
          -11
          I am interested in my country joining NATO and finally getting rid of remnants of the unreachable.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 12 2013 18: 23 New
            +6
            Quote: Warbringer
            I am interested in my country joining NATO

            Forgive your Russian flag, but what is your country?
            1. Warbringer
              Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 33 New
              -8
              Independent of the scoop Russian Federation.
              1. sashka
                sashka April 12 2013 20: 00 New
                +5
                Quote: Warbringer
                Independent of the scoop Russian Federation.

                No, no .. So it’s just not possible. You despair who can say so boldly .. Boy, with a dirty ass. You can’t talk about Russia like that. What is the address to diminish your courage .. We are coming to you ..
                1. Michael-89
                  Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 03 New
                  -2
                  Do not get excited, he probably means the primitiveness of Soviet technology, and not about the country as a whole.
                  1. sashka
                    sashka April 12 2013 20: 22 New
                    -1
                    [quote = Mikhail-89] Do not get excited, he probably means the primitiveness of Soviet technology, and not about the country as a whole. What has changed? I do not see and do not hear)))
                    1. Michael-89
                      Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 23 New
                      -4
                      Tell me, will you fight with a warbinger? Did he write you an address?
                      1. ty60
                        ty60 April 13 2013 00: 22 New
                        0
                        crest he pro-Western and lives in ZHITOMIR
                      2. Warbringer
                        Warbringer April 13 2013 00: 24 New
                        0
                        I am pro-Western Russian and live in Moscow. Problems?
              2. Warbringer
                Warbringer April 12 2013 20: 07 New
                -4
                Quote: Sasha
                What is the address to diminish your courage

                Pushkin Street, Kolotushkin House. Come, dear.
          2. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 12 2013 18: 35 New
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            What is your country?

            Apparently, Lesotho wassat
        2. sibircat
          sibircat April 12 2013 18: 23 New
          +2
          I feel sorry for you, apparently in the wrong country you were born.
          1. Warbringer
            Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 25 New
            -3
            In that, in that.
            1. BIGLESHIY
              BIGLESHIY April 13 2013 04: 55 New
              0
              In the rear-wheel drive tan
        3. Alex_dex
          Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 25 New
          -13
          I do not agree a bit about joining the bloc, but on the whole, the direction of your thoughts is correct. About the transition to the standards of arms and technology, NATO fully agrees.
          1. Warbringer
            Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 28 New
            -6
            Even standards are good. Greetings to unitary shells, a rifle cartridge without an overshot rim for food and other tasty and inaccessible things now.
            1. Alex_dex
              Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 29 New
              -4
              I approve. Finally, a reliable person with a normal unitary, and not that divided fun, will replace the unreliable and always inactive AZ teshek.
              1. Warbringer
                Warbringer April 12 2013 18: 31 New
                -3
                Quote: Alex_dex
                people

                Well, in our case, yes - you have to plant a person. With blacks in Russia there is a shortage.
                1. Alex_dex
                  Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 33 New
                  -6
                  I even had a picture lying around.
                  1. Michael-89
                    Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 47 New
                    -3
                    Aazazzaz under the table)) You cheered me in the evening. That's for sure XD
                  2. Strashila
                    Strashila April 12 2013 20: 47 New
                    +3
                    but what !!!
                  3. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 April 12 2013 21: 11 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Alex_dex
                    Alex_dex

                    The fifth picture was forgotten on which the abrash answered like: A EASY !!!
                    1. Warbringer
                      Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 20 New
                      -5
                      And they brought the Abrams, which was blown up on an IED. You are broken, replace.
                    2. Aleks28
                      Aleks28 April 12 2013 21: 46 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Warbringer
                      And they brought the Abrams, which was blown up on an IED. You are broken, replace.

                      According to the allegations, the work of the RPG. I didn’t blow it up myself request
                    3. Warbringer
                      Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 48 New
                      -2
                      He was blown up by IEDs, the untrained Alahbahs finished off the RPG. No wonder. Nevertheless - the tower is in place, which is an indicator.
                    4. Aleks28
                      Aleks28 April 12 2013 23: 01 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Warbringer
                      He was blown up by IEDs, the untrained Alahbahs finished off the RPG. No wonder. Nevertheless - the tower is in place, which is an indicator.

                      Here is the same tower in place lol True tank is not in place. request
                    5. Warbringer
                      Warbringer April 12 2013 23: 07 New
                      -2
                      Do you know the history of this M1A1 Marine Corps? No? Let me remind you: it was blown up on a very large mine. The car would have been smashed into small parts, and this one was lucky, got off with the flight of the tower.
                    6. Aleks28
                      Aleks28 April 12 2013 23: 18 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Warbringer
                      Do you know the history of this M1A1 Marine Corps? No? Let me remind you: it was blown up on a very large mine. The car would have been smashed into small parts, and this one was lucky, got off with the flight of the tower.

                      Well, and this one I think you will argue with an atomic bomb (and not one) wink
          2. Alex_dex
            Alex_dex April 12 2013 21: 30 New
            -5
            Sorry, but this abrams was blown up on a land mine, and not knocked out with an RPG.
          3. dmitreach
            dmitreach April 12 2013 21: 42 New
            +1
            sure, not a problem. I like these stories more ...
            There were cases of irretrievable losses due to ignition of auxiliary power units (APU) and / or ignition of tanks with fuel and lubricants reserves that fell into the engine-transmission compartment and thereby ignited the engine. So burned one "Abrams" ("because of the secondary effect"), which was fired from a 12,7 mm DShK machine gun. The bullet hit the left rear of the tower, where the APU is located, broke a box, disabled the unit, and burning fuel and oil from it rushed down to the MTO. The power plant ignited, which completely burned out, the tank cannot be restored. By the way, about the APU of the Abrams tank.
          4. Alex_dex
            Alex_dex April 12 2013 21: 43 New
            -5
            Do not compare the case with the system.
        4. Aleks28
          Aleks28 April 12 2013 22: 48 New
          +1
          Maybe here you will argue that on a land mine?
          Quote: Alex_dex
          Sorry, but this abrams was blown up on a land mine, and not knocked out with an RPG.

          But did you beat it yourself? In any case, you won’t determine the exact video.
        5. Raven1972
          Raven1972 April 13 2013 00: 04 New
          +3
          Og, it’s hit the tower directly with a land mine, don’t tell my horseshoes ...
        6. Warbringer
          Warbringer April 13 2013 00: 06 New
          -3
          I would have talked with a man and explained to him why a tower flies off at an abram during a blast at an IED, but with a horse it’s not for me.
  • svp67
    svp67 April 13 2013 13: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Alex_dex
    I approve. Finally, a reliable person with a normal unitary, and not that divided fun, will replace the unreliable and always inactive AZ teshek.


    Dear, in order to say so, you would have to be the gun loader at least once, and "leave" the shells in the gun, and even in motion, I think after that your opinion will not be so categorical
  • ty60
    ty60 April 13 2013 00: 24 New
    0
    The main component is a burger with Lard!
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic April 12 2013 22: 14 New
    +6
    Quote: Alex_dex
    I do not agree a bit about joining the bloc, but on the whole, the direction of your thoughts is correct. About the transition to the standards of arms and technology, NATO fully agrees.


    You have an idea of ​​the requirements for the transition to NATO standards and why they actually exist in addition to the unification of small arms. Judging by the posts there. Yes, and I think it’s useless to explain, because I already explained it in the Ukrainian topic earlier, If you already dared to explain or advise something on a military site, at least you need to first familiarize yourself with the ELEMENTARY essence of the issue ... otherwise fill up the list of uneducated and self-confident UNKNOWNS or eombasted Discovery suckers.
    1. Michael-89
      Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 18 New
      -7
      Is it a secret for you that NATO technology is better than communist technology? Let's debate if you take a chance :)
      1. Aleks28
        Aleks28 April 12 2013 23: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Michael-89
        Is it a secret for you that NATO technology is better than communist technology? Let's debate if you take a chance :)

        You would at least give an example, or comparative characteristics, and so what to discuss with you request
        Quote: Michael-89
        This is known, but for example, I hope that common sense will prevail and Russia will be interested in the resumption of production.

        What can I argue here? Or what to agree with? No.
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi April 13 2013 00: 05 New
        +3
        Quote: Michael-89
        Is it a secret for you that NATO technology is better than communist technology? Let's debate if you take a chance :)

        What is this new performance characteristics? In the IDF we had a reserve 444 t / d on "Tirants" for a long time and no one cried anything. RPG-7 before the adoption of the "Matador" was the main grenade launcher of the platoon / company link.
        In general, the military system fights against the system to a greater extent than the TTX versus the TTX.
  • Rebus
    Rebus April 12 2013 20: 38 New
    +4
    Quote: Warbringer
    I am interested in my country joining NATO and finally getting rid of remnants of the unreachable.

    The aspirants to NATO are just remnants (or disadvantages) ... It is good that they are few.
    1. Michael-89
      Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 40 New
      -6
      Most of them, you are wrong.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm April 12 2013 22: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: Warbringer
    I am interested in my country joining NATO and finally getting rid of remnants of the unreachable.

    Probably take a leading place and replace the United States, or what? NATO will not wait long with open arms, where are you, rather to us.
    But the question is, who is NATO against if Russia is in NATO, why should there be a huge military alliance.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 31 New
      -5
      The main threat in the world is the Allah radicals. You should forget about the big war in the European theater of war - its probability is extremely small, or rather, negligible. She only scared the kids.
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 April 12 2013 23: 46 New
        +2
        Quote: Warbringer
        She only scared the kids.

        Geyropeyskih-that diapers would buy more wassat
      2. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 April 13 2013 00: 38 New
        +2
        The main threat in the world is the Allah radicals.

        So it’s you, the grantee, find out from your employers from the USA: why they arm and train the Taliban first, and now Al Qaeda, this is in practice, but of course they are fighting with them in words.
  • Alex_dex
    Alex_dex April 12 2013 18: 30 New
    -8
    The picture has peeled off, I apologize to the members of the forum.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm April 12 2013 22: 34 New
      +3
      Quote: Alex_dex
      The picture has peeled off, I apologize to the members of the forum.

      I will disappoint you, "Abrams" are no longer produced. crying
      1. Michael-89
        Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 35 New
        -6
        This is known, but for example, I hope that common sense will prevail and Russia will be interested in the resumption of production.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 April 12 2013 23: 48 New
          +3
          Quote: Michael-89
          Common sense will prevail and Russia will be interested in the resumption of production.

          Abramsov or something belay what fool
  • waisson
    waisson April 12 2013 19: 06 New
    +2
    I look Serdyuk’s colleagues gathered here, but patriotism, I don’t see the shame, it’s clearly that someone was not born in this state
    1. servant
      servant April 12 2013 19: 10 New
      +2
      And what is patriotic? Cabbage soup claw? If we do not reach something ourselves, what is shameful and not patriotic in buying modern weapons abroad?
      1. Alex_dex
        Alex_dex April 12 2013 19: 13 New
        0
        This also means that in the army there will be equipment that has tasks, and there are analogues in the world, as well as well protecting the soldier, which runs counter to the principles of the Soviet army, and therefore are the machinations of an insidious stool.
        1. Michael-89
          Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 34 New
          -1
          In armored vehicles, our lag is simply impressive, especially in tanks. With the same Abrams, Soviet tanks really can not be compared in terms of the LMS and the protection of the crew. The same kick panels in a crazy niche. If tank T shoots a tower with a crew, Abrams shoots these same plates.
          1. Warbringer
            Warbringer April 12 2013 19: 47 New
            -4
            No, Michael, you are wrong. The SLA of M1A1 Abrams was quite flawed until the appearance of M1A2 in the 94th year. But in the second half of the 80s, we had an excellent LMS on the T-80U and T-80UD tanks, but the LMS is such a thing that becomes outdated very quickly. Cracking scoop, total it turns out that our tanks on the western tiptoe with riveting. Therefore, it is better to save our tanks for scrap, and instead of them to buy a Western usability - Leclerc.
            1. Waterfall
              Waterfall April 12 2013 19: 50 New
              +2
              Quote: Warbringer
              there was an excellent SLA on the T-80U and T-80UD tanks,

              With "Buran-PA" and without a panorama - excellent ???
              1. Warbringer
                Warbringer April 12 2013 19: 52 New
                -3
                Compared with what stood on other tanks (and there was a rare squalor there, especially on Tagil tanks) - excellent.
              2. Michael-89
                Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 56 New
                -1
                There are no panoramas by the way on any serial Russian tank. Even the Ukrainians put a bucket on Oplot-M.
                1. Warbringer
                  Warbringer April 12 2013 19: 58 New
                  -4
                  Oplot-M is just another modernization of the Soviet T-80UD turret. In its dimensions (which by the way are inspired by another miserable T-64 turret) it is difficult to push something larger than a bucket.
                  1. Michael-89
                    Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 01 New
                    -4
                    Of course. But perhaps this is the best that can be squeezed out of the next modification of the T-34, which is the T-80 by and large. The same T-90MS is more a step backward than forward, not like the American M1A2.
                    1. Warbringer
                      Warbringer April 12 2013 20: 03 New
                      -3
                      T-90MS is an attempt to correct the innate learning disabilities of T-64 designers and their ingenious ideas with an automatic loader inside the tank and other tank racks. As a transitional machine, it will do.
                      1. Waterfall
                        Waterfall April 12 2013 20: 06 New
                        -2
                        The stronghold is better, it is the brainchild of the Kharkov school with extensive experience, not like Tagil car builders.
                      2. Michael-89
                        Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 07 New
                        -3
                        Quite possible. I heard about learning disabilities, by the way. I recently read Dvachevsky’s interview, it seems, he told me that some Morozovites almost read letters there in huts-reading rooms, and complained very much about this, scolding the T-64.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 20: 24 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        T-90MS attempt to correct the innate learning disabilities of T-64 designers

                        And where does the T-64?
                        This is a modification of the simplified mobilization tank T-72
                      4. Warbringer
                        Warbringer April 12 2013 20: 26 New
                        -1
                        Remind the story of the creation of the T-72 and how the 64-ki case was inherited?
                      5. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 20: 27 New
                        0
                        Remind me, and I'll laugh.
                      6. Warbringer
                        Warbringer April 12 2013 20: 30 New
                        -3
                        Tags: object 167, chassis, MTO, object 172, object 172m. What to do - you know.
                      7. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 20: 35 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        Tags: object 167, chassis, MTO, object 172, object 172m. What to do - you know

                        No, let's take a closer look, so that everyone would see that you are right.
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        T-90MS attempt to correct the innate learning disabilities of T-64 designers

                        Quote: Warbringer
                        Remind the story of the creation of the T-72 and how the 64-ki case was inherited?

                        Here, take it and confirm with a quote. I’ll say now that the T-72 has received more from the T-62, and will send you to Google by tags)))
                      8. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 20: 37 New
                        0
                        ) ________________________________
                      9. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 20: 40 New
                        +3
                        __________________________
                      10. Warbringer
                        Warbringer April 12 2013 20: 50 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Kars
                        T-72 received more from T-62

                        And the neckline at the hatch of the mechanic on the T-64/72/80 is so, an accident, and not Kharkov about% b, og. However, looking at your flag you can safely send you to hell.
                      11. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 21: 01 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        And the neckline at the hatch of the mechanic on the T-64/72/80

                        Quote: Warbringer
                        send you to hell

                        Well, of course, if you are so poorly versed in the subject and think that anti-helmet bonnets are the body of the tank. I received elements of the frontal, differentiated protection from the T-64, the T-72, but not the Corus.

                        But you all the same try to find quotes that the serial T-72 received a hull from the T-64, but he didn’t get the tower with combined armor for sure, right up to the T-72A modification
                      12. Warbringer
                        Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 09 New
                        -4
                        Prove that no.
                      13. Kars
                        Kars April 12 2013 22: 01 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        Prove that no.

                        Why me? You probably went where you send me
                        Quote: Warbringer
                        Tags: object 167, chassis, MTO, object 172, object 172m. What to do - you know.

                        Or didn’t they go?
                      14. Michael-89
                        Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 05 New
                        -4
                        But that gentleman is right. T-72 is a simplified modification of the T-64, only with a different chassis.
                    2. Kars
                      Kars April 12 2013 22: 07 New
                      +1
                      ______________
                      Or now start to tell that the structural elements are the case))))
                    3. Kars
                      Kars April 12 2013 22: 15 New
                      +2
                      So for example, the body is long
                      T-64 6428/6540

                      T-72 6860

                      The same?
    2. Michael-89
      Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 26 New
      -4
      The T-64 is the ancestor of the entire family of turrets, as they are sometimes called.
  • Michael-89
    Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 52 New
    -3
    I’m talking about today, about modern Abrams, in particular with the TUSK complex. Compared to modern tanks, I am impressed primarily by the latest K-2 from Korea, or Challenger-2 with a promising rifled gun. There is an unconfirmed fact that a T-72 was shot down already from five kilometers, a primitive tank built on Soviet principles of tank building, of course, could not oppose him.
  • sashka
    sashka April 13 2013 07: 42 New
    0
    Wrong. I clicked in the wrong place. Sorry ... Minus only minus
  • UFO
    UFO April 12 2013 19: 15 New
    +1
    It is impossible without criticism. And yet, why are examples only from the West? One can learn something from China, especially the production and further development of military equipment, practically from scratch, which way they go and the results show. A similar experience would be very useful to us, especially in radio electronics, and in other areas. The backlog of the Soviet past ends, we begin to lag behind, in the same armored vehicles. hi
    1. Michael-89
      Michael-89 April 12 2013 19: 29 New
      -11
      Probably because the US army today is the most combat-ready in the world. bully
      1. UFO
        UFO April 12 2013 20: 26 New
        +7
        Quote: Michael-89
        Probably because the US army today is the most combat-ready in the world. bully

        It is impossible to assert that until we have checked her "for lice". angry
        1. Michael-89
          Michael-89 April 12 2013 20: 28 New
          -5
          She has the largest armed forces with combat experience.
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 April 12 2013 22: 07 New
            +3
            Ogh, only here they have experience exclusively against the obviously weakest enemy, and even with the wrong hands .... so ignore laughing
            1. Warbringer
              Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 11 New
              -4
              Against which is the weakest? Iraq, which had tremendous experience after an 8-year-old meat grinder?
            2. Michael-89
              Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 15 New
              -5
              By the way, I ask you to note that with whomsoever NATO fights, Russian weapons are always sucked dry: in the desert in Bur, in Iraq-2003, in Yugoslavia.

              Well, about the Arab-Israeli is better not to remember. There, soviet crafts burned in the hundreds, that the planes, that the ground. Well, do not know how to do, even crack.
              1. Warbringer
                Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 17 New
                -4
                Add to this the Arabic learning disabilities and get a lot of shovel boxes.
              2. Kalita
                Kalita April 13 2013 13: 00 New
                0
                "By the way, please note - whoever NATO fought with, Russian weapons were always sucked dry: in the Desert Storm, in Iraq-2003, in Yugoslavia."
                And in which country did NATO meet with the S-300 or S-400, with the SU-35, with the T-90, etc.?
                Answer please.
                1. Kalita
                  Kalita April 13 2013 13: 20 New
                  0
                  In the Korean and Vietnamese wars, everything was different and only because both Koreans and Vietnamese were ready to kill and die, while the Arabs did not have enough skills to use what they had, and the Yugoslavs were simply awake.
  • Committee
    Committee April 12 2013 19: 32 New
    -2
    When I wrote about this for a couple of months, they zipped me, but what right now? Clacked up?
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 12 2013 21: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Committee
      When I wrote about it a couple of months, they made me feel bad.

      Then neither in a vein nor in a stream did not get. laughing
  • Gorchakov
    Gorchakov April 12 2013 19: 53 New
    +3
    I wrote, am writing and I think that the purchase of weapons and components abroad, and especially in the enemy camp ... is a crime ...
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 19: 55 New
      -11
      The time has come to remind you that the 21st century is in the yard, and NATO is a friend. Throw red propaganda out of your head.
      1. Earthman
        Earthman April 12 2013 20: 27 New
        -6
        Quote: Warbringer
        The time has come to remind you that the 21st century is in the yard, and NATO is a friend. Throw red propaganda out of your head.

        Moreover, judging by the Russian channels, we are waiting for contact with NIBIRU and let us unite all our forces into ONE army and meet these reptiles.
        British scientists have proved it
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm April 12 2013 22: 51 New
        +1
        Quote: Warbringer
        The time has come to remind you that the 21st century is in the yard, and NATO is a friend.

        Yes, he is getting closer and closer.
        1. Warbringer
          Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 55 New
          -3
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          closer and closer

          Let the pivas grab along the road.
      3. smile
        smile April 13 2013 04: 59 New
        +1
        Warbringer
        Judging by your rhetoric, NATO is your boyfriend..I'm hard to understand how you, being friends with the entire NATO bloc, survived in one ass ... maybe you have a dope priest - I won’t argue ...... but the fact that you're throwing away red propaganda at the same time threw out brains from your head ..... makes you sympathize with you .... okay, don’t behave like a wonderful bird Hoopoe - don’t obsess the outstretched hand .... no need, nobody will beat you .. ..so they’ll make and give a stew ... well, you don’t need anything else ... after all :? :))))))
  • patriot89
    patriot89 April 12 2013 21: 25 New
    -2
    http://www.2ch.hk/wm/res/493274.html
    1. patriot89
      patriot89 April 12 2013 22: 21 New
      -2
      From here this evil spirits (Alex_dex, Warbringer, Wasserfall) came. They have a troll raid here.
  • Alex_dex
    Alex_dex April 12 2013 21: 38 New
    -7
    I hope that I will live to see the time when the teschiks are handed over for remelting and the Russian army finally gets modern weapons like the A1M2.
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 43 New
      -3
      I support this, tanks are needed. But not Abrams. Firstly, they will not sell or sell the castrated version without uranium inserts, which is not good, and secondly there is a long-standing strategic partner in the person of France, who is ready to generously saturate our troops with leclerts.
      1. smile
        smile April 12 2013 21: 53 New
        +4
        Warbrin
        Yeah, not the best (for everyone except the manufacturers) but the most expensive ... and there are tanks \ Hitachi - almost as expensive, also the most computerized, though they never fought ... Koreans are also the best tanks in riveting the world .... how many other possibilities to kill your military-industrial complex - the head is spinning ... right away. how much you are a competent specialist, a giant of thought and the father of Russian democracy, and at the same time - how much you rejoice about the welfare of the Motherland ... you would be in the lead - paradise would come ... not only for us, but for any host who liked you ... if he I told you more. how Russian wild and uncouth .... sorry. but in my opinion with similar reasoning you have a place in that groove where the Spartians threw off ugly boys ....:
        1. Michael-89
          Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 03 New
          -9
          If these gentlemen want us to have a powerful army - is that bad? Or do you want her to continue to be equipped with Soviet g ... m, like the T-90?
          1. smile
            smile April 12 2013 22: 34 New
            +5
            Michael-89
            I’ll have to explain ... look how roughly the US humanitarian aid to African countries is happening -
            funds are allocated. with these funds own agricultural products are purchased, mainly illiquid, transported by American t.s. into the country of mambunia and there SALE at dumping prices ... for several years and in mambunia the remains of its agricultural producer are ruined ... hello - the new US market .. this is so, on fingers, sorry for primitiveness ... and now attach the scheme to the military hardware. .
            this, of course, despite the fact that they will not sell us the best with bookmarks .... so, if you follow the logic of these gentlemen, then the murder of the military-industrial complex goes on, millions are not an understatement of the unemployed. loss of key technologies, complete dependence of the supplier in everything. as a result, the complete loss of combat capability of the army so dear to these gentlemen .. there is such an expression - simplicity - worse than theft ... this is precisely this case. There are still a lot of arguments, including those of a purely military-technical nature, but apparently they should not be cited - judging by the statements of the gentlemen under discussion, they understand in this case approximately like a chicken in the poetry of the Silver Age, and other, more competent specialists, than I'm here in bulk ...
            You are not worried that the Japanese are riveting their tanks, trying to make MFIs, etc., the same Koreans, Indians, Chinese, Swedes, Turks - that's all. who is trying to be at least somewhat independent ... and what do you want us to do as a banana country?
            1. Michael-89
              Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 43 New
              -7
              I wish shovels to be replaced with modern NATO models. Instead of the wretched Tagilo-T-90 - Abrams TUSU, together with the amusing Msta - Archer, instead of armored personnel carriers - Patria or Boxers, instead of wretched BMP-2 - at least Bradley.
              1. smile
                smile April 13 2013 01: 07 New
                +2
                Michael-89
                and I wish. so that we had tanks with artificial intelligence, whose breo allowed us to see 5 meters through concrete, they would fly, at least now and on command we would go on our own to beat strangers and save and endow our sweets .... only this will never happen if wrath happens when we buy someone else’s junk, we’ll kill our military-industrial complex ... you have to be very ... mildly short-sighted to offer such nonsense .... remember how he was killed in the 90s I’m still shocked by the rage from the word conversion, the former so popular among gentlemen like you ... the result is just this lag, about which you so enthusiastically argue ... are you not enough? Really you really do not understand such banal things. It is simply amazing .....
              2. smile
                smile April 13 2013 04: 08 New
                +1
                Michael-89
                I'm not a tanker ... but I once ... a dozen and a half years ago I saw a miracle ...- a pumped tank that had only 6 shells jumped out like an advertising machine and put down 3 firing points that prevented us from living .... in a minute ..with this, he took 7 ... seven RPG hits ... one-through hatch-through .... the piece of iron survived !!!!!! by the way, inside there were only two boorish people ...... after that, the bay about the badness of our tanks was unpleasant to listen to ....
              3. Ezhaak
                Ezhaak April 13 2013 09: 50 New
                +1
                Quote: Michael-89
                I wish shovels to be replaced with modern NATO models.

                But do you want, my dear man, to work with this technique directly? And at the same time show personally to all the scoops the abilities of this miraculous NATO technique.
    2. ultra
      ultra April 12 2013 23: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Alex_dex
      I hope that I live to see the moment

      And I hope I will not live! negative
  • andr327
    andr327 April 12 2013 21: 55 New
    +2
    And in the USSR, the purchase of foreign equipment was carried out, and clones were made from it, but on this basis its own was created. Now enterprises for the introduction and development of new technologies do not have the means. They are being pushed for loans. But the banker doesn’t care. He has to make money out of money, and from your technology he is not warm not hot, the faster the better. That is, if you introduce something, then the enterprise, I'm sorry, but well .. e.
  • воронов
    воронов April 12 2013 21: 56 New
    +1
    We should not buy military equipment
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 21: 58 New
      -6
      Worth it. We will still give birth to ubluds with flying towers in KB.
      1. smile
        smile April 13 2013 04: 23 New
        +2
        Warbringer
        You know, the epigraph is very suitable for your speeches -: "Give the supper to the enemy.
        Enemy "... how do our towers seem worse to you than the same towers, but created for much more money by our potential friends ... and what are they better than us .... damn it. Really curious ... not enlighten?
  • jjj
    jjj April 12 2013 22: 13 New
    0
    By the way, German torpedoes, like relatives, were suitable for our boats during the Great Patriotic War. Yes, and diesel, by the way
  • APASUS
    APASUS April 12 2013 22: 19 New
    +2
    The trouble with our industry is not even that we do not have decent samples. The trouble is that we are not able to establish mass production !! We make a modern car but singular !!
    Our enterprises do not have a resource for a jump !! The workshops are ruins, we do not produce modern materials, the equipment has exhausted its resources, and the youth are not going to assemble workers ..........
    And this is not just a hypothesis - it is my life experience !!
    We have a sharpening machine where a swastika was shot down with a chisel !!
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 25 New
      -4
      Quote: APASUS
      with a chisel knocked down a swastika !!

      Well, a swastika is better than a red star.
      1. APASUS
        APASUS April 12 2013 23: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Warbringer
        Well, a swastika is better than a red star.

        I do not understand your comment. Better - Worse ??
        The machine was made almost 70 years ago !!!
        This is the issue of modernization, SO WAY ADVERTISED BY OUR GOVERNMENT
      2. smile
        smile April 13 2013 05: 17 New
        +1
        Warbringer
        For the first time, I agree with you ... it’s even amazing, how honestly you showed your ... scholasticity .... even a doubt crept in, maybe you are ill ... well, if you admit that the swastika is better ..... damn, maybe it’s worth to chip in for drugs ... and so we will be thrown off, just tell ....
  • UFO
    UFO April 12 2013 22: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Gorchakov
    I wrote, am writing and I think that the purchase of weapons and components abroad, and especially in the enemy camp ... is a crime ...

    So, if intelligence steals technological secrets - is this normal, but is it a crime to buy officially? fool
    Quote: Warbringer
    The time has come to remind you that the 21st century is in the yard, and NATO is a friend. Throw red propaganda out of your head.

    It is impossible without propaganda if we are the State. "NATO is a friend" who wants to "fuck" us. If you consider such friends, then I do not envy you. laughing
    Quote: Warbringer
    in the person of France, which is ready to generously saturate our troops with Leclerc.

    "Leclercs" are not tested in battles, and the Israeli "Merkava" is recognized as the best. hi
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 12 2013 22: 28 New
      -6
      Quote: UFO
      the best Israeli "Merkava"

      Who is recognized? You and your buddy buddy friends?
      1. UFO
        UFO April 12 2013 22: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: Warbringer
        You and your buddy buddy friends?

        I don't use it at all. There is an expression - "you can't see the shores", it's about you. negative
      2. Aleks28
        Aleks28 April 13 2013 00: 34 New
        0
        Quote: Warbringer
        Who is recognized? You and your buddy buddy friends?

        Follow your comments .-
    2. Michael-89
      Michael-89 April 12 2013 22: 29 New
      -6
      Merkava is a very specific car. We do not need it, although in any case it is better than a primitive teshka.
      1. smile
        smile April 13 2013 04: 40 New
        +1
        Michael-89
        Well, admit ... the main thing in your phrase-t90 is kaka ... no one takes a laurel from a chariot - a serious car ... but you’re embarrassed to talk with your childish ideas about primitivism .. and it’s not important - it’s about tanks, or about painting ... judging by your texts, you are all the same - you understand the same thing there and there - with negative results .... please try to make efforts to understand at least something ... I would be glad and you.....
      2. 11Goor11
        11Goor11 April 13 2013 10: 39 New
        +1
        Michael-89
        ... although in any case better than a primitive teshka

        Well ... if the "teshka" is evaluated with a primitive conceptual apparatus, then it will look primitive, and everything that is "overseas" is magnificent, unearthly and wonderful.
        You would have already moved beyond this ocean of yours and would have lived in paradise.
        Or do you need to work out spring grants first?
  • albatross
    albatross April 13 2013 00: 29 New
    +4
    His, and only his! And also sell to the West. Cheap labor in China? Make an agreement with North Korea, put factories there and produce whatever you want. Kim Jong Il twice went to visit us, in the presence of Yele, apparently asked for something. The whole world ignores them, just stretch out your hand, and they will be happy to work with us. "But we have American partners!"
    1. Warbringer
      Warbringer April 13 2013 00: 32 New
      -1
      And still sell to the West

      The West does not need self-propelled turret throwers. They need tanks and they have them. We also need tanks, but we don’t have them, only self-propelled turret throwers.
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov April 13 2013 05: 33 New
    0
    Both Russia and the Soviet Union bought weapons abroad. Even Stalin did not disdain and bought. But he did it wisely. What is the purchase of the leader "Tashkent" and the heavy cruiser "Lyuttsov" (later "Petropavlovsk") But it must be done wisely. Take a couple of copies. Study advanced experience and make your own weapon with the best characteristics based on it. The example of the Mistral is idiocy, maybe even a criminal plot. It was possible for this money to build ships and better. Take the Korean Dokdo, for example. The Koreans were not against one to build at home, and the rest at a newly built shipyard in the Far East.
    1. servant
      servant April 13 2013 06: 52 New
      0
      They took a couple of Mistral ... And who will sell you a couple of tanks, a couple of armored personnel carriers, a couple something else, or do you think that’s behind the hill? How many screams in the west were about misrals?
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov April 13 2013 07: 24 New
    0
    You can do wisely, like the Indians. Announce a tender, hold a tender, conduct tests, mumble a couple of years, examine samples, and then consider the tender failed.
  • [comment-show]
    BIGLESHIY
    BIGLESHIY April 13 2013 10: 59 New
    +1
    [quote /] Warbringer
    The time has come to remind you that the 21st century is in the yard, and NATO is a friend.

    Homosexuals are not our friends! am
    [/ comment-show] [comment-deleted]
    The comment was deleted.
    [/ comment-deleted]
  • Niko-zhukov
    Niko-zhukov April 13 2013 12: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Michael-89
    I’m talking about today, about modern Abrams, in particular with the TUSK complex. Compared to modern tanks, I am impressed primarily by the latest K-2 from Korea, or Challenger-2 with a promising rifled gun. There is an unconfirmed fact that a T-72 was shot down already from five kilometers, a primitive tank built on Soviet principles of tank building, of course, could not oppose him.

    An interesting expression: "unconfirmed fact". A fact is a confirmed event, and an unconfirmed fact is news from the OBS agency (one woman said)
  • shinobi
    shinobi April 13 2013 18: 43 New
    0
    Foreign samples can and should be bought! To transfer them in parts and under the supervision of specialists to exploit-force in all mental and unthinkable conditions, thereby revealing their strengths and weaknesses. Strong copy and develop, weak in the toilet. That is why our industry can provide an army for everyone. There is no doubt that a stupid cretin who decided to promote For a freebie. Samples of the equipment of a likely enemy, our defense industry bought, traded, stole, took as trophies (mostly) always.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus April 14 2013 03: 05 New
    0
    It is necessary to buy foreign. At least in the area of ​​optical sights for shooters. For ours is a complete slaughterhouse. And not to suffer about this, but to work to catch up and overtake. And then so with the T-72 and we will fight, calming ourselves "albeit garbage, but our own." Look, we bought the Mistral, and how many shouts like "we ourselves can do the same." Well, didn’t they offer it before, couldn’t it? The purchase of a foreign one is a motivating podzhopnik to our military-industrial complex. That would not rest on our laurels, releasing outdated crap.