Military Review

Hungarian occupational troops in the Soviet Union

48
Hungarian occupational troops in the Soviet Union

Preface translator.


Данный материал имеет предысторию. Некоторое время венгерские СМИ, близкие к правящей сегодня партии, проводят активное переосмысление historical событий Второй мировой войны. Нетрудно даже угадать главные тематические направления: ревизионизм, представление Венгрии как жертвы агрессоров, и даже больше – акцентирование на преступлениях Красной Армии. И несколько неожиданно к последней годовщине событий на Дону, ознаменовавших крах 2-й венгерской армии, прибавилась многоголосица, что венгерские солдаты не только героически сражались, но и защищали национальные интересы на территории СССР.

This approach was particularly piqued by the fact that the Hungarian Prime Minister V. Orban was at the peak of the campaign (he read headlines like “Hungarian soldiers on the Don fought for the Motherland”) visited Moscow to negotiate a revitalization of economic relations. Nevertheless, “active rethinking” did not go unnoticed, which confirms this material. I ask you to pay attention to the status of historians who represented Russia at the meeting described below, as well as the presenter’s words: there is no longer any reason to hide evidence from the archives of the occupiers in the archives. Special thanks to the Hungarian historians who opposed the trends in the coverage of past events.


Based on archival documents

5 March 2013 in the club Kossuth was the presentation of a series of documentary books “Hungarian occupation forces in the Soviet Union. Archival documents 1941 - 1947 "(editors: Tamas Kraus - Eva Maria Varga, publisher Bp. L'Harmattan). The collection was presented by: historian Peter Shiposh; historian Vasily Stepanovich Khristoforov, head of the Office of Registration and Archival Funds (URAF) of the FSB of Russia, head of the Center for Publication of Sources on the History of the 20th Century; esthetic Akosh Siladi; historian Andrei Nikolaevich Artizov, archivist, head of the Federal Archival Agency; historian Gabor Dioni.

Below we publish a transcript of Peter Shiposh's speech.

Nowadays, the situation can be traced to an excursion into the history of the Hungarian participation in the Second World War, especially in connection with the tragedy of the 2 Army in the bend of the Don. One after another, monographs, studies, diaries, memoirs, photo albums and other works in a similar genre. The most important feature for them is to justify the military policy of the Horthy regime and its apologetics, vulgo - whitewash. To reveal the scope of sources that serve as tools for argumentation, there is no need for long-term research. It is enough to carefully study the speeches of the Hungarian political and military leaders in the critical 1941 year, especially in the spring and summer months. A common feature of these documents is that the authors unanimously declare Hungarian participation in the war against the Soviet Union in the capacity of, so to speak, the national interests of Hungary. Infantry General Heinrich Vert, the chief of staff of the Hungarian army, wrote in his memoirs that participation is required "for the sake of the territorial integrity of the state, as well as the security of the state and social structure, our Christian, on a national basis, world view, commits to this Union, we have finally decided on the Axis countries, and our further territorial expansion depends on this. ”

The head of the government, Laszlo Bardoszi, though he was not alien to the views of Heinrich Vert, was tactical for opposing voluntary offers of participation. His opinion was shared by Miklos Horthy. The head of state and the prime minister thought it was necessary to wait for the German signal to enter the war, because in that case, you could ask for reciprocal concessions. But the Germans just did not want to make proposals, because the only territory they could promise as a reward was Banat, which Romania claimed as well.

The stalemate between Berlin and Budapest was resolved by the bombing of Kashi. (Kosice, now a city in Slovakia - translator). A city in the north of Hungary, as is known, 26 June 1941 was bombed by unmarked planes, it was impossible to determine the identity of the group of attacking planes, the secret remained undisclosed to this day. Bardoshi considered that the nationality of the planes bombing Kashsh is not so important. He believed the main thing that the Hungarian headquarters agreed with the Germans version, according to which the planes attacking the city are Soviet, and this proves that the Germans want the entry of Hungary into the war. So, here it is a long-awaited sign, further fluctuations are no longer the place. For joining the war it is definitely impossible to bring the argument that the Soviet Union would pursue an aggressive policy against Hungary. Moreover, from Moscow to 1940-41, with unambiguous gestures they made it clear that they intend to have good neighborly relations.

There is no doubt that participation in the war was not related to any Hungarian national interests. There is hardly a more reliable witness than one of the most important politicians of the era, Istvan Bethlen. In his memoirs, written in June 1944, he condemned Hungary’s 1940-41 foreign policy with bitter words. He believed that the Hungarian policy "began a series of fatal blunders by joining the" Tripartite Pact ", when, without any serious need and reciprocal benefits, we joined such a union, which was created to resolve issues between world powers. And this made the first step in the direction of disaster ... ".

Speaking about joining the war against the Soviet Union, Bethlen rejected propaganda, “which was concerned with drawing the ghost of Bolshevism on the wall to draw us into war. Bolshevism is undoubtedly a danger to all of Europe, but not the call of a little Hungary to sacrifice the color of the nation in order to divert this threat from Europe. ” Beetlen saw the national goal to “re-sew the country cut into pieces. Unfortunately, in June of 1941, we deviated from this axiom of national policy, and again we will bitterly redeem the mistakes made. ”

Hungarian historiography, which studies war against the Soviet Union, primarily focuses its attention on the battles of the Hungarian army on the Soviet-German front, and is barely interested in the activities of the Hungarian occupation forces. Since the autumn of 1941, as part of the Western and Eastern Occupation Group, 90 thousands of Hungarian soldiers solved occupational tasks in an area of ​​about 500 thousands of square kilometers in the territories of Russia and Belarus. Occupation meant the so-called "military use" in the rear, practically hunting for partisans.

You can learn about the behavior of the Hungarian units from a witness such as Josef Goebbels, Hitler's confidant. The propaganda minister of the 18 empire, on May 1942, wrote about the battles taking place in the Bryansk forest area: “Hungarian formations are fighting south of this region. They need to occupy and pacify one village after another. When the Hungarians declare that they have patientized one village, this usually means that there is not a single resident left. ”

It would be a serious mistake to say that we are talking about individual cases, and from the Hungarian side there were no massacres of civilians. Hungarian partisan hunters regularly collaborated with German troops. The sergeant of the gendarmerie detachment testified to this:

"In 1941, I joined the 32 / II. Battalion, and with this unit in October 1941 entered the Soviet territories of military operations ... We changed the German battalion, and the German command entrusted the task of fighting our partisan detachments ... B On December, the German command sent 1941 to the battalion for questioning about 80-s of Soviet citizens, after which they should be destroyed. The interrogation of Soviet citizens took place in a prison building ... as Soviet citizens did not testify, they were subjected to terrible torture. This I know from there that shouts and groans came from the prison building. Together with the firing squad we surrounded the Soviet citizens and took them to the place of execution.
When we reached the craters near the railway tracks from being hit by bombs, the captain ordered the Soviet citizens to undress. Some did not obey the order, these people were stripped by members of the firing squad, while beating them brutally. The members of the firing squad were slamming Soviet citizens into the craters ... ”

In the Soviet Union, 1942-1945 worked as an Extraordinary State Commission “to establish and investigate the atrocities of fascist German invaders and their accomplices and the damage they caused to citizens, collective farms, public organizations, state enterprises and institutions of the USSR”. The CPG on the basis of the testimony of 250 thousands of witnesses only for the killings made up 54 thousands of protocols, and on damage - about 4 millions. The unbelievers of Thomas are forced to believe in the authenticity of the documents only because the falsification of such a huge amount of material or any other manipulation with it is simply impossible for technical reasons and is inconceivable. The documents contain reliable descriptions of the killings of family members, relatives, friends and colleagues, soldiers and prisoners of war, eyewitness accounts of atrocities. Each protocol is also a charge.

Testimonies, speeches, letters of surviving Soviet and Hungarian citizens, prisoner of war files and other documents reveal the terrible details of the activities in which Hungarian soldiers in the absence of men mobilizing into the army with almost unimaginable cruelty were physically exterminated mainly by the masses of Soviet civilians, old men, women children as well as prisoners of war. It is no coincidence that the local population a decade later still keeps the memory of the actions of the Hungarians, and on the occasion reminds them of the visiting Hungarian researchers and tourists ... Let pars pro toto quote two documents. “According to the final report of the Extraordinary State Commission of 28 in March of 1945, only in the 12 districts of the Chernihiv region did Hungarian soldiers kill 38611 of peaceful Soviet citizens. The center of the massacres was the town of Shchors, where in prisons, parks, and forests — before large pits for mass graves dug by persons executed for execution — after the most horrible tortures many thousands of people were executed. In many places, burning was a frequent method of execution. The victims were mostly old men, women and children, but the babies were also killed along with their mothers. And Shchors was just one of the places to be executed. ”

Honved Ferenc Boldizhar (company 46 / 1.2., Field mail 115 / 20) in his diary described just one of such “heroism”, which he was also proud of: “When we entered the village, I set fire to the first three houses myself. We killed the men, women, children, burned the village. They went on ... Our magnificent hussars set fire to the village, the third company set fire to rockets. From there, we went on reconnaissance. During the time we spent in reconnaissance, the hussars burned six villages ... ”

The disclosed documents make ad act such assumptions, such relativization, such wording as excuses like “on the one hand - on the other hand”, that “in a war excesses and atrocities are inevitable,” that “one can only talk about a limited number of undisciplined soldiers”, “ such incidents are the inevitability of war, ”etc. Based on archival sources, we can determine that the Hungarian units in the captured Soviet territories between 1941 and 1945 carried out genocide. On the pages of the presented collection of documents reveal to us the "Hungarian chapter" of the Nazi genocide. These crimes as crimes against humanity will never be forgotten.
The genocide committed by the Hungarian royal army on Soviet territory has not yet been the subject of scientific research and the conclusions drawn from them. In this regard, a vacuum has been formed, which cannot be justified by the lack of sources even before the disclosure of Soviet archival data. For Hungarian researchers, the documentation contained in the Archive of the History of the State Security Services and the Military Historical Archive would be available. A surge of interest in the topic in both Hungary and the Soviet Union paralyzed the political and ideological shackles and made it impossible. Party and state bodies have found the idea of ​​touching upon the facts of massacres and robberies in the Soviet territories too delicate and stirring up passion, which inevitably would have generated intentions to investigate Soviet crimes in Hungarian territory. Therefore, a taboo was imposed on this entire subject area so that the crimes of the past did not lead to the creation of tension in relations between the Soviet Union and the newly-minted Eastern European allies.

Access to the Soviet archives opens up opportunities and prospects for historical information about terrible and insidious crimes, which previously could only be hoped for. Moreover, the petty reasons connected with the current policy about the expediency of investigating historical events have been put to scrap.

This collection of a kind of innovative. Its creators did a great job on the sea of ​​documents by researching them, selecting, organizing, translating and creating the necessary for the interpretation of the scientific apparatus. Undoubtedly, the base of facts of this collection will not cause undivided joy and approval in certain circles of public opinion, journalism, historical science. But still open the curtain of silence, behind which there is always darkness.

Afterword translator. So that the reader can better understand what trends in the modern presentation of the story were spoken by the speaker, I will point out once again the earlier translated materials from the Hungarian media.
Originator:
http://www.oroszvilag.hu/
48 comments
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  1. Belogor
    Belogor April 12 2013 06: 48 New
    19
    Almost all countries from the Hitler coalition excelled in this. And some of them have become "friends" in the socialist camp. As in the saying "having such friends and enemies is not necessary"
    1. albert
      albert April 12 2013 18: 22 New
      +2
      Well, in 1956, during the Hungarian rebellion, we slightly reckoned with them am
  2. svp67
    svp67 April 12 2013 06: 50 New
    12
    Representation of Hungary as a victim of aggressors, and even more - emphasis on the crimes of the Red Army. And somewhat unexpectedly, by the last anniversary of the events in the Don, which marked the collapse of the 2-th Hungarian army, the polyphony added that the Hungarian soldiers not only fought heroically, but also defended national interests on the territory of the USSR.


    In terms of the quantity and quality of their atrocities, the Hungarian “Honveds” claim to be a shameful first place in the ranking of “chief executioner” of peaceful Soviet people. And if our government, for the sake of political interests, is trying not to “remember” it and not to allow historians to enter the archives, then the people’s memory cannot be closed not by the decisions of the CPSU Central Committee, or by presidential decrees. It's time to open the archives and put the documents in “net”, we can’t to let the executioners of our people suddenly become heroes, otherwise we will betray the memory of millions of our people who died in that war.
    1. aleks
      aleks April 12 2013 07: 39 New
      +4
      how the Hungarians fought in the occupied territories was written in Soviet literature quite a lot, you just need to be able to read. I remember this, but the young people have nowhere to read — these books from libraries were written off and sent to the oven.
    2. Denis
      Denis April 12 2013 07: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      In terms of the quantity and quality of their atrocities, the Hungarian “Honveds” claim to be a shameful first place, in the ranking of “chief executioner” of peaceful Soviet people
      So it’s easier to cherish with the civilian population, it’s safer. On the front line, they can shoot
    3. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets April 12 2013 08: 26 New
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      In terms of the quantity and quality of their atrocities, the Hungarian “Honveds” claim to be a shameful first place in the ranking of “chief executioner” of peaceful Soviet people.

      But they only claim, there are a lot of such applicants: Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian SS men; Ukrainian SS men, UPA, Germans themselves, our Russian rabble. Hungarians, by the way, according to the memoirs of our front-line soldiers, after the Germans were the most serious adversary, unlike, for example, Italians or Romanians. They fought fiercely and competently, did not surrender en masse. But for this:

      “When we went into the village, I myself set fire to the first three houses. We killed men, women, children, burned the village. Let's move on ... Our magnificent hussars set fire to the village, the third company set fire to rockets. From there on we went into reconnaissance. During the time we spent in reconnaissance, the hussars burned six villages ... ”

      these hussars need to hammer a car in the ass flat, with no statute of limitations. angry
      1. Denis
        Denis April 12 2013 17: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Vladimirets
        massively did not give up
        Not as stupid as not to understand the consequences. A soldier and an executioner, then two baa
    4. Egen
      Egen April 12 2013 09: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Hungarian "Honved" claim to shameful first place

      Wait, what about the Balts?
      Question: Weren't the Hungarians at the front? Near Stalingrad, where with the Italians and others? It seems to hear somewhere ...
      But the article is not complete: did they, the Hungarians, be taken prisoner? What happened to them then? There were articles about Germans and Japanese in captivity, it would be interesting to read about future brothers in the socialist camp.
      1. igor36
        igor36 April 12 2013 10: 01 New
        +7
        After what the Hungarians did in Ukraine and in Voronezh, our soldiers did not take Hungarians prisoner. Near Voronezh, 2 Hungarian divisions were destroyed. THERE WERE NO PICTURES !!!
        http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/1822566
        1. svp67
          svp67 April 12 2013 10: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Egen
          Wait, what about the Balts?

          Quote: igor36
          After what the Hungarians did in Ukraine and in Voronezh, our soldiers did not take Hungarians prisoner.


          This is an indicator of the "love" of our soldiers for the Honved, because they atrocized not only in the rear, but also in relation to our prisoners, especially the wounded ...
      2. don.kryyuger
        don.kryyuger April 12 2013 10: 49 New
        +5
        They were not taken prisoner. Why can we understand from the article? The Royal Expeditionary Force, was completely destroyed on the Don, near Voronezh. The fighting was also Hungary itself. Was in Budapest near the Horthy Palace, with me there was a front-line soldier who was releasing him. He said that blood flowed down the stairs, and it was knee-deep. I noticed that the medal is called “For the capture of Budapest”, and others, “For the liberation of Warsaw”, Vienna, etc.
    5. baltika-18
      baltika-18 April 12 2013 13: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      In terms of the quantity and quality of their atrocities, Hungarian “Honveds” claim to be a shameful first place

      You are right about this. Hungarians are fascist descendants of the great Türks. And now they are celebrating the anniversary of the defeat of the 2nd Hungarian army on the Don in January 1943, as a day of national tribulation. They have not gone far from the Balts. A slippery little fool.
    6. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 12 2013 14: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Hungarian Honved

      Who are terribly offended by what they are called "Hungarians." They demand that they be called "Magyars." But figs to them Hungarians. First you have to be people, and only after that make presentations.
  3. Nesvet Nezar
    Nesvet Nezar April 12 2013 07: 09 New
    +1
    I don’t give a damn what the “new” Hungarians think ... They came, got bored, and left. After the fight, they don’t wave their fists. But in a hurry to imagine oneself as heroes, in pro-American rhetoric singing mistakes, it threatens with new stars in the event of a change in geopolitical courses. Central Europe was stupid, is stupid and stupid .............
  4. Chuck-norris
    Chuck-norris April 12 2013 07: 15 New
    +6
    The laws of the universe have not yet been canceled. This all comes back to other generations.
  5. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 April 12 2013 07: 15 New
    12
    In the USSR, out of the stupidity and folly of the then ideologists, they concealed the truth about Hitler’s allies participating in the war against the USSR, it did nothing but harm to us. They imagine themselves victims and are ready to attack again.
    All these Hungarians, Romanians, Germans, Spaniards, Italians and other "civilized Europeans" went to our country to rob, rape and kill, expand their territory, so that any repressive actions by the USSR towards them were highly justified.
    This was to be inspired by Soviet propaganda throughout the world, and not by hiding behind proletarian solidarity.
    1. dmb
      dmb April 12 2013 20: 32 New
      0
      About stupidity and thoughtlessness. Do not repeat the cliches, and other people's nonsense, because this is not a sign of a deep mind. Do you think that the active exaggeration of the role of the Hungarian “brothers” in the war would help strengthen the Warsaw block? Or do you doubt the need for the existence of the block itself ?. Then you will go straight to the Gorbachev Foundation. It is the gentlemen there who still insist that NATO at our borders has great happiness. By the way, I do not remember that the current rulers and their official ideologists opened their eyes to the people about this. Moreover, Mr. Pivovarov, who occupies a prominent place in the Academy of Sciences, a member of various expert groups and councils under the authorities last year in Budapest, stubbornly praised the Hungarians for participating in the war on the side of Germany. Something like that.
  6. AK-47
    AK-47 April 12 2013 07: 29 New
    +4
    Hungarians are pathologically cruel people, and they have been distinguished by this since time immemorial. Is it any wonder?
    1. TRex
      TRex April 12 2013 07: 55 New
      +5
      What do you want from the pygmies? What can be expected from them? They strive to shit, spit on the back, turn the bandwagon, betray ... Now there are a lot of them at our outskirts - God forbid what happens: they will burst into a strange courtyard, behind a healthy uncle ... And when they get it by snot they will remember about Slavic roots, about a joint history, pretend to be lambs ...
      "Remember the war!" (Admiral Makarov)
      1. Sirocco
        Sirocco April 12 2013 08: 04 New
        +1
        One word from them all smells of gypsy. Although I insulted the gypsies. Gypsies, where they live and with whom they live, are not spoiled there. (At least it used to be)
  7. pinecone
    pinecone April 12 2013 07: 40 New
    +7
    The Magyars distinguished themselves by their atrocities in the Civil War on the territory of Russia. Apparently, this is a national trait of the descendants of Atilla, whose name is called the streets of Hungarian and Turkish cities.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 April 12 2013 10: 11 New
      +3
      The Hungarian Soviet Republic, which existed from March to August 1919, was destroyed by the Hortists with the help of Romanians. The Khortyts dealt with the supporters of the republic with monstrous cruelty.
      So they atrocities at home.
  8. fedot.uncle
    fedot.uncle April 12 2013 07: 42 New
    11
    Yes, the inhabitants of Ukraine remembered their cruelty. Witnesses say that the Hungarians behaved even worse than the Germans. The Germans are retreating, passing by, and the Hungarian is sure to throw a grenade out the window. No wonder in 1956, when Soviet soldiers suppressed the fascist rebellion in Hungary, in Transcarpathia a line of volunteers gathered in military commissariats, asking for weapons to beat the Magyars. The Communists hid this.
    1. dany
      dany April 12 2013 12: 06 New
      0
      Do not forget about the Romanians. During the occupation in the North Caucasus, according to old men, parts of these bastards were gestured so that the Germans could not even dream of.
  9. pensioner
    pensioner April 12 2013 07: 43 New
    +5
    Because of these incomplete ... s Magyars, the valiant Voronezh was not given the title of Hero City. Why did not our soldiers burn the Hungarian villages? And when they shot him in the back, the Hungarian villages didn’t “pacify”? Yes, because they were people. In the memoirs of veterans, there are often tales of the atrocities of the Hungarians. And when they were at the forefront of our offensive at the beginning of 43g, at the army level (according to rumors) a decision was made with captured Hungarians not to bother.
    1. Ghenxnumx
      Ghenxnumx April 12 2013 08: 12 New
      +2
      And they didn’t bother with them - they already brought data here, shortened the Hungarians during the offensive decently
    2. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak April 12 2013 10: 39 New
      +1
      This is probably why in the Tula region there are cemeteries of vegres-German military personnel who died in captivity. They were captured, taken. Humanity was shown.
  10. Sirocco
    Sirocco April 12 2013 07: 58 New
    +8
    “According to the final report of the Extraordinary State Commission of March 28, 1945, only in 12 districts of the Chernihiv region did Hungarian soldiers kill 38611 peaceful Soviet citizens. Yes, Katyn, with her lies in the Western media, is resting. To whom and when will Russia claim? And will it be? As it’s not fair, it turns out that everyone wants to shit on our heads, pinch, bite, and this is almost always, goes unpunished. About these fraternal republics, I would say so. Haha, I’m such a relative, I'd rather be an orphan.
  11. igorgar
    igorgar April 12 2013 08: 32 New
    +7
    Whoever didn’t fight against us. But everyone raked to the fullest. There is an old joke: they ask the German: “What do you drive to work?” “On a Mercedes.” “And across Europe?” “On a Volkswagen.” The same question to the Frenchman . Replies: “To work for Peugeot, Europe for Renault.” Replies Russian: “To work by tram, but I don’t need to go to Europe.” They ask: “If you really need to go to Europe, what will you come to? "" Well, if you really need it, then I'll come on the tank. "
    1. Denis
      Denis April 12 2013 17: 25 New
      0
      Quote: igorgar
      There is an old joke
      Let me illustrate
      Is-2, please love and favor
      do not want to force
  12. igordok
    igordok April 12 2013 08: 38 New
    +6
    Mother was in occupation, a child, in the Bryansk region, where Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia are neighbors. She said that the Germans were tougher than the Hungarians and Finns, but the Italians and Slovaks did not notice the stiffness.
    In her stories, I doubted the Finns, believing that they fought only at home, but judging by http://www.poisk32.ru/index.php?showtopic=907 I was wrong.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver April 12 2013 09: 36 New
      0
      Quote: igordok
      ... that the Germans and the Finns were tougher than the Germans, but didn’t notice the stiffness behind the Italians and Slovaks ...

      +
      Romanians themselves, too, are somehow not particularly tough.
      1. svp67
        svp67 April 12 2013 10: 38 New
        0
        Quote: BigRiver
        Romanians themselves, too, are somehow not particularly tough.


        Yes, as it’s not always so, I'm sorry about the tragedy of our landing in Eltigen ...
        1. neodymium
          neodymium 8 May 2013 21: 21 New
          0
          There was no tragedy there.
          The Eltigen operation on 1.11.1943/XNUMX/XNUMX was attended by fighters who liberated Novorossiysk, marines, all with combat experience.
          Yes, the original plan did not work, there were planning errors, for which the command then paid.
          The landing party created a foothold, pulled on itself forces and fought ...
          Then, though they were starving, they broke through to the north and starred on boats.
          It was difficult, but the HERO combat mission was completed.
          The Kerch bridgehead remained with us, which helped in the liberation of the Crimea.
          Yes, and pulled themselves large forces, helped the 4th Ukrainian.
          My grandfather was a platoon there, consisting of 318 mountain rifle (there were 60% of the natives of the Caucasus and sailors), he received the order, after which he took part in the Zhebriyansky landing, where the Romanians rushed about, trying to surrender to someone.

          PS
          In Zhebriyany (near Vilkovo) two of the surviving heroes of the Olshantsev 384 OBMP who participated in the sea landing in Nikolaev were killed.
          (The only case when all - 55 people! Submitted to the title of Hero of the Soviet Union.
          Including 11 survivors.)

          EVERLASTING MEMORY!
      2. Ghenxnumx
        Ghenxnumx April 12 2013 12: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: BigRiver
        +
        Romanians themselves, too, are somehow not particularly tough.

        Are you kidding me? read how they established their power in supposedly "their territories" - Moldova and the Odessa region, and your opinion will be reversed. Who else is alive remained Romanians just will not love
  13. valokordin
    valokordin April 12 2013 08: 44 New
    +6
    In my opinion, all the atrocities of the German allies must be written in the newspapers every day, broadcast on television and radio, and entered into the section of historical textbooks at school. In addition, to tell and print about the atrocities of Bandera, the Baltic SS, Polish, French, Dutch, Croatian and of course about Vlasov.
    1. igorgar
      igorgar April 12 2013 08: 55 New
      +4
      There is a persistent feeling that for some, the Nazi occupation, judging by the current rants, for the good of the Baltic states liked concentration camps, Ukrainian nationalists liked burnt villages and villages ... you can put an infinity sign here. It turns out that the USSR is to blame for everything, we you just had to give up and it would be happiness for everyone, but we took it, but they set us all up.
  14. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel April 12 2013 09: 22 New
    +6
    Good morning everybody! By the way, pay attention to the inscriptions on the military (not anniversary) medals that our veterans are awarded with. There are medals "For the capture ..." and "For the liberation ..." (depending on which country the city was involved in - an ally or enemy of Germany). The medal "For the capture of Budapest" speaks for itself.
  15. ed65b
    ed65b April 12 2013 09: 32 New
    +1
    It is necessary to calculate how much damage the Hungarians did and present them with a bill and demand repentance, admit it as a Holocaust and seek compensation constantly and everywhere to remind them of this in general ... other. And so all of the Baltic states and Poles for 20 years. so that their life does not seem sweet.
  16. Vladimir_61
    Vladimir_61 April 12 2013 09: 35 New
    +3
    Death to the fascist invaders! Settlements ahead.
  17. adg76
    adg76 April 12 2013 09: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: igordok
    Mother was in occupation, a child, in the Bryansk region, where Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia are neighbors. She said that the Germans were tougher than the Hungarians and Finns, but the Italians and Slovaks did not notice the stiffness.
    In her stories, I doubted the Finns, believing that they fought only at home, but judging by http://www.poisk32.ru/index.php?showtopic=907 I was wrong.


    My grandmother was the same from near Bryansk. One to one spoke. The only thing that added was that the Germans and Italians from the regular units fed the families in which they stopped for a binge.
    1. igordok
      igordok April 12 2013 10: 36 New
      0
      Quote: adg76
      The only thing that the Germans and Italians from regular units fed families


      My mother remembered how a German treated her with chocolate, and showed a photograph of his kinder. But the other Germans took everything they wanted.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin April 12 2013 11: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Vladimir_61
      Death to the fascist invaders! Settlements ahead.

      My grandmother and aunt were in Bryansk in occupation and told that the garrison in the city was Finnish and my grandmother said that she was nearly shot, and the neighbors ran away and hid. She didn’t say anything bad about the Germans, but the Finns atrocities.
      1. Vladimir_61
        Vladimir_61 April 12 2013 13: 19 New
        0
        Quote: valokordin
        My grandmother and aunt were in Bryansk in occupation and told that the garrison in the city was Finnish and my grandmother said that she was nearly shot, and the neighbors ran away and hid. She didn’t say anything bad about the Germans, but the Finns atrocities.

        Anything has happened. You heard alone, I had to hear other stories of eyewitnesses who are still alive. By fascists I understand not only the German Nazis, but also all their henchmen. About the Finns, too, heard a lot. In a quiet pool ... And the calculations will be inevitable. You can’t violate laws with impunity. It is very bad that ignorance has no idea about the law of causes and effects, which determines everything on earth. Not gloating (low sense), but Europe will have to pay its debts, and already in this century.
  18. erased
    erased April 12 2013 10: 07 New
    +1
    Unlike Hitler Germany, where there was not a single fascist, but only the Nazis, there were fascists in Hungary. And the Hortists are their imitators. In the USSR, the Hungarians worked wonderfully well. Like all German hangers-on. The entire European pack then tried to destroy the USSR. It didn’t work out. Now they want to destroy memory and remake history. We do not want this to happen. But what does the Russian government want? It’s not very clear yet.
  19. mayor46
    mayor46 April 12 2013 10: 10 New
    +3
    WWII is not over !!!
    When will the order come?
  20. JonnyT
    JonnyT April 12 2013 10: 13 New
    +3
    There is less humanity and morality in the world, especially in Europe. Those who are weak in spirit are always distinguished by their atrocities with regard to peaceful ones. Our people should remember that the Slavs have very few friends. They perceive Russian kindness and sincerity as weakness and, taking advantage of it, continue to intrigue to do the most harm.
  21. pensioner
    pensioner April 12 2013 10: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: BigRiver
    Romanians themselves, too, are somehow not particularly tough.

    You will visit Odessa. They will tell you.
  22. Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich April 12 2013 11: 12 New
    +2
    The Germans, Hungarians ----- and others came to conquer - they felt they were victorious and committed terrible atrocities "with the lower race." It is impossible to FORGET about it or it can be repeated. If our youth swallows this lie, "about a certain liberating role of the executioners," they will doom themselves and subsequent generations to the role of the eternal victim, guilty of everything.
  23. maximus_1974
    maximus_1974 April 12 2013 11: 14 New
    +2
    This is not a secret for a long time, Russia is constantly at war with all of Europe, it was under Peter and in 1812, as well as the Second World War. These European .anwitches very well know how to change colors like Tabaka's jackal, how do I feel sick from this outside powdered reminded and perfumed, and a little picking - fetid, fictitious, nasty Europe.
  24. maximus_1974
    maximus_1974 April 12 2013 11: 22 New
    +1
    This is not a secret for a long time, all of Europe always fights against Russia, it was like this under Peter and in 1812 and during the Second World War, and it used to be the same, we are always like a bone in the throat of an "enlightened" Europe, because we are not in a herd we stumble, men don’t want to marry men, we don’t want juvenile justice, we don’t burn women at the stake, and they remain women with us, not like theirs flickered, WE are not they, WE ARE REAL. I'm sick of them.
    1. Ghenxnumx
      Ghenxnumx April 12 2013 18: 14 New
      0
      Quote: maximus_1974
      This is not a secret for a long time, all of Europe is always fighting against Russia

      In one of the old films about the war or about Kovpak or about Fedorov, they caught a glimpse of a poster on the wall “Free Europe from the Bolsheviks” on the wall, which clearly shows under which sauce the invasion of our territory was served
      1. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak April 12 2013 19: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: Ghen75
        In one of the old movies

        That you, that you, we began to portray us much earlier as a monster and began to scare us with our children! Here is an example of old posters. They are many similar and executed on behalf of different countries and Europe, too.
      2. Ghenxnumx
        Ghenxnumx April 12 2013 22: 38 New
        0
        and here’s a newsreel shot from Kovpak, where you can clearly see how Naglia is “fighting” with Germany, supplying her with her oil
      3. Ghenxnumx
        Ghenxnumx April 12 2013 22: 41 New
        0
        and here’s a newsreel shot from Kovpak, where you can clearly see how Naglia is “fighting” with Germany, supplying her with her oil
  25. NIK 163
    NIK 163 April 12 2013 11: 53 New
    +2
    Russia has been, is and will be the main opponent of the West. The whole, enlightened, Geyropa has repeatedly gone to Russia with a sword and so far only with this sword in the ass and went back. We can’t continue the good tradition of our ancestors, well, homosexual what to take from them.
  26. Leisure
    Leisure April 12 2013 12: 37 New
    +1
    The Goebels affair lives and thrives. Maybe proud of his students.
  27. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny April 15 2013 12: 55 New
    +3
    Hungarians are essentially the same steppes. The usual military cruelty for the Asian mentality among the Hungarians for the rest of Europeans has always been surprising and frightening. At all times in Europe, the Magyars were considered the most cold-blooded and cruel (during the wars). In ordinary peacetime, on the contrary, the Magyars are famous for their cordiality as Caucasians or steppes, especially on holidays. The Magyars also calmly relate to other nationalities and religions, they are alien to the notion that some nation is better / worse than another (although during the WWII Hungarian Jews "surrendered" to the Germans). But the peace-loving hospitable Hungarian instantly turns into a cruel soldier when the war begins, when there is an enemy. Moreover, the Magyar will kill the Magyar with the same cruelty as the non-Magyar.
    The Hungarians instinct for self-preservation works very late, and when the question is about the physical preservation of the Hungarian nation itself. Personally, the Magyars do not value their life very highly; the interests of the nation are always higher for him.
    Magyars “do not suffer” reflections and remorse. They know their past perfectly, but they are much more interested in the future. Today you had a fight with him on the street in blood, and tomorrow he may be the first to call, make peace and invite him on a visit, expecting you are also ready for reconciliation, not deciding who was right / to blame for yesterday’s fight.
    In general, the mentality is very calm, tactful. They will never churn out to insult another person. But they won’t tolerate if someone starts doing this to them. To make it easier for Russians to understand-Bashkirs are Bashkirs by mentality. If you know the mentality of the Volga Turks, then it will be easy for you to understand the worldview of the Hungarian. The differences are minimal.
    Hungarians do not perceive their WWII soldiers as “fascists” (even then a completely fascist type party was banned in Hungary). The Hungarians believe that the war began after the well-known (though shrouded in secrets) "provocation" of the Soviet Union in Kosice. It is likely that the Germans / Romanians arranged it, but formally it looked like Hungary was attacked by Soviet aircraft. Here the Hungarians turn off the logic in the head and turn on the "soldier mode". If the Hungarian government had not sent troops to the USSR after the Koshitsky air raid to take revenge, then ordinary Hungarians themselves would have lynched the prime minister and would have gone to war in the Soviet Union themselves. Compare action with the 2008 war. They fired at the Russian base in Georgia, Russia instantly exploded with indignation and a desire to take revenge.
    By the way, the Hungarians always thought badly in political games. For such actions they are too simple-minded. Hitler actually lured Hungary into a web-trap, linking it with a chain of several cooperation agreements and making it possible to return territories previously torn away from Hungary following the results of the WWII. When the Hungarian Prime Minister realized what he had gotten into his country after the German cunning post, he shot himself in April 1941. But they could not change anything. Hungarians always try to comply with the agreements.

    Since I talked a lot with Hungarians, I write this so that the psychological world of the Hungarians and some moments of the history of this country are more or less understood.

    Z.Y. The Hungarian joke, which accurately characterizes the inability of the Hungarians to geopolitical and political considerations. This is the main minus of the Hungarian mentality. They could know how to be far-sighted politicians, long ago half of Europe would have been the territory of Hungary.
    Hungarians on the eve of WWII talk with the US ambassador:
    - The Kingdom of Hungary declares war on you!
    - Why did your king take offense at us ???
    - Eeee ... we have no king ...
    - Then who is in charge of your country?
    “Rear Admiral Horthy.”
    - Is Hungary a maritime power?
    - No ... we have no sea ...
    - Sorry, but we don’t understand why you climb to fight.
    - How why? We have territorial claims!
    - To the USA ???
    - No, to Romania.
    - So, you will declare war and Romania?
    - No, they are our allies ...