German losses in Operation Bagration - a mystery that must be solved

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German losses in Operation Bagration - a mystery that must be solved

In June we have a significant date - the anniversary of Operation Bagration (the Belarusian strategic operation, carried out according to the plan under the code name "Bagration"). The operation, which began on June 23, 1944, became an outstanding achievement of domestic military art and an example of the effectiveness of the actions of Soviet troops, who achieved colossal strategic results.

During the two months that Bagration was carried out, the irretrievable losses of the Soviet troops amounted to 178 people (few were captured in this operation, so these were mostly killed). Also, 000 were wounded and sick. In total, the Soviet troops lost 537 people, about a third of their initial number.


Alternative history from German historians


And how many did the Germans lose in Bagration? German sources readily cite large figures of our losses. The German side's losses are stated as 26 killed, 397 missing and 262 wounded. Some of the missing later reached the German positions - taking them into account, the final figure is 929. That is, the Germans, although they admit their defeat in Operation Bagration, believe that German troops inflicted twice as many losses on the Soviet side as the Germans themselves suffered.



The basis for the German loss figures is the data of the OKW casualty accounting service. However, even Müller-Hillebrand, who cited them in his work "The German Ground Forces 1933-1945", doubted the reliability of this service's data.

You can find references to this work and the figures of German losses during the war given in it with comments along the lines of, here is an authoritative source that counts German losses and compares them with much higher Soviet losses in the war. But Müller-Hillebrand in his work not only cited the data of the casualty accounting service, but also, right there, from the next paragraph, criticized these data and the entire German system of accounting for losses. As a result, he comes to the conclusion that the real German losses significantly exceeded the figures collected by the casualty accounting service.

The accounting service relied on reports from troops on losses. But these reports could contain erroneous information. Müller-Hillebrand identified the reasons for the errors: "By the time the report was sent... it was not always possible to collect complete and reliable information on the number of killed"; "In the conditions of a fast-moving maneuver war... especially during periods of troop retreat, there was, naturally, some delay in submitting reports or a partial absence of such reports for many days." Operation Bagration is a striking example of exactly this situation for the Germans (fast-moving combat, defeat and retreat), when the German system of accounting for losses not only began to fail, but fell apart. As a result, a lot of real German soldiers lost were not included in the reports.

The famous German contemporary researcher R. Overmans also assessed the data on losses collected by the German accounting service as unreliable. According to Overmans' calculations, the real losses of the German armed forces in June-December 1944 exceed the data of the official accounting service by approximately 500 killed. A significant part of this excess should be attributed to "Bagration".

In general, there are reasonable indications of the unreliability of the OKW statistics, namely, the underestimation of German losses. But German sources on Bagration still stick to the OKW figures, maintaining the conviction that Soviet losses in this battle were twice or even more than German ones. Even doubting this can cause an aggressive reaction. On one Internet forum (German Catastrophe in Belorussia in 1944 - Feldgrau.net), a Russian participant doubted the figure of 390 German losses, to which a German participant burst into a vicious tirade that such doubts are Stalinist propaganda and falsification. The Russian participant did not respond to the attack. And in vain, since his opponent's position is vulnerable, he too can be immediately accused of propaganda and falsification - Hitler's, with the development that this opponent himself is a fan of Nazism.


An example of German losses is a destroyed column of equipment.

German sources, in support of their belief about lower losses, always write about the high military skill of their army. But the main argument is the thesis about the small number of troops of the Army Group "Center" (that is, there were so few Germans that they could not lose much). According to their credo (reflected in the German Wiki), the Army Group "Center" had only 486 people - and losses in the battle cannot exceed this number.

It is necessary to understand that the German side is not interested in correcting the figures of their losses, they are satisfied with it, allowing them to present the complete defeat that happened to them as a kind of victory over the Russians. The special problem here is that their figures can penetrate into the Russian media sphere due to the uncritical attitude towards German sources and, accordingly, mistrust of domestic ones. Therefore, it is necessary to show the falsity of the German figures, their basis in the form of fraudulent manipulations.


A column of German prisoners passes by a captured tank


How to establish the real history?


The losses claimed by the German side in Operation Bagration — two times smaller than the Soviets — do not correspond at all to the nature of the battle, in which many German units were destroyed and routed, and the front was thrown back 600 km to the west. The second reason why the German loss figures should be immediately regarded as false and unacceptable is that they are based on unreliable data from the OKW accounting service. Having given the German figures a deserved assessment, it is necessary to contrast them with the actual amount of German losses. But determining it today is a problem. One of its manifestations is the wide variation in the figures for German losses in Russian sources. They contain the following data:

- 410 people. This data was first given by I. Timokhovich; the breakdown of German losses in Timokhovich's text (000, of which 410 were irretrievable; 000 were taken prisoner) is not entirely clear, the total losses can be calculated as 255 (000 + 200). Other authors, taking figures from Timokhovich, do not do such an addition. But if 000 prisoners are obtained by subtracting 610 irretrievable losses, then 000 remain for the killed, which is implausible, since it does not correspond to the nature of the battle.
- 380 killed and 000 captured Germans in just one month from June 158 to July 000. This figure was obtained by summing up data from Soviet troop reports on enemy losses.
- 289 killed and captured, 000 wounded. This figure is from the official German casualty report.
- 350. This is apparently a “rounding” of the figure from the German report.

Well-known historians A. Isaev and R. Irinarkhov do not provide the total German losses in their monographs devoted to Operation Bagration, avoiding this issue. The figure of German losses according to the reports of Soviet troops seems to be exaggerated. But if we take the figure according to the reports of German troops, then the story of a brilliant Soviet victory becomes some kind of a casus belli. Even in such an operation, Soviet losses are twice as great as German losses.

The current situation poses the task of refuting pro-Nazi falsifications and reliably determining the amount of German losses in Operation Bagration to our national historiography. Not a single Nazi who perished should escape the count. Falsification means not just understating German losses, but also belittling the feat of our warriors – soldiers and commanders. All this requires an answer – a real, close to the actual determination of German losses in the battle.

As a first step in solving this problem, it is necessary to establish the number of German forces participating in the battle. German sources give a figure of 486. At the same time, Soviet sources determine the number of enemy forces at the beginning of the operation as 000 million. How does such a difference arise? The answer is described below, its essence is the cheating manipulations of the German side, underestimating its forces participating in the battle and their losses.

486 is the so-called combat strength of Army Group Center. The total strength of Army Group Center was 000 people. German historians themselves seem to be surprised - where did so many people come from - 850? It is assumed that these were the occupation administration, paramilitary organizations, various collaborationist formations, etc. In general, people who had nothing to do with the Wehrmacht itself. Apparently, the Germans have been instilled with the figure of 000 people since childhood and the general idea that there were 360-000-400... times more Russians at the front.

But these ideas are false both for the Soviet-German front in general and in the particular case of Bagration. Müller-Hillebrand gives the following data on the German forces on the Eastern Front: on July 1, 1944, the Wehrmacht had 2,2 million people there (in Army Group Center more than 800, in Army Group North 000, in Army Group North Ukraine and Army Group South Ukraine – 540 and 000; while the total number of German armed forces was more than 400 million). There are authors who take the figure of 000 million and compare it with the total number of the Soviet active army of 510 million. Isayev, for example, does this, effectively participating in the German falsification. But, as in the previous example with Müller-Hillebrand, it must be read more carefully. Citing the figure of 000 million, he makes a note that it does not include the SS troops, the Luftwaffe forces (including Defense, and, in general, very numerous among the Germans), as well as the 20th Mountain Army, airfield units, as well as service personnel, paramilitary organizations, collaborators. It is even possible that security units are not taken into account (an indication of this was present in the previous summary of the strength of the German army in the east). And what is certain is that about a million people in the armies of the German allies operating on the eastern front are not taken into account.

In general, we should accept the number of enemy forces at the front as 4,3 million, as indicated in Soviet sources, and compare this figure with the Soviet 6,6 million. It turns out that the overall Soviet superiority by the summer of 1944 was approximately one and a half times, and two times in the Bagration zone by its beginning (2,4 million on the Soviet side against at least 1,2 million on the German side).

So 360 people in addition to the combat strength of the Army Group Center are also the Wehrmacht. They must have been in the rear units of corps, army and higher subordination. The Wehrmacht consisted not only of combat units, it had developed rear support, so a lot of people were in the supply service, training, repair, medical and veterinary, etc. units.

In the Soviet group, with a total number of 2,4 million people, there were 1,6 million in combat units, that is, a third were in the rear. For the Germans, the percentage of the total number in the rear is significantly higher - 43%. Perhaps it is a matter of the calculation method: we took into account corps, army and front rears, but the Germans also counted divisional ones. Or the Germans did not take into account all combat units. And the combat strength was greater than 486.

So, the figure of 486 people given in German sources is only the combat strength and only the Army Group Center. But in a group that has undergone deep breakthroughs - as happened in Bagration - the entire mass of troops becomes combat. The rear units end up at the front and are drawn into battle. So when calculating losses, the entire strength of Army Group Center must be taken into account, not just the nominal combat strength.

Moreover, the Soviet troops were confronted in the battle not only by the troops of Army Group Center. The Soviet operation also captured the adjacent flanks of the neighboring Army Groups - North and Northern Ukraine. German sources try not to mention that the troops of neighboring Army Groups also participated in the battle. But these Army Groups added significant forces to the Germans in the battle.

By the beginning of the operation, there were 13 German divisions in the areas of Army Group "North" and Army Group "Northern Ukraine" that it had captured. Together with combat and rear units of corps and higher subordination, the total number of personnel in this group should be estimated at no less than 200 people. Adding them to Army Group "Center", we get a total figure of German troops of more than a million people in three Army Groups located in the "Bagration" zone at its beginning. But this figure is far from complete; it does not take into account all the enemy forces.

Müller-Hillebrand has some remarkable information about the German group in the West on March 1, 1944 - the following were listed as being on the payroll:

Ground forces - 806 people
SS troops and police - 85 people
Foreign volunteers - 61 people
Allied forces - 13 people
Air Force - 337 people
Naval fleet - 96 people
Service staff
Wehrmacht (civilian employees) - 145 people
Total - 1 people.

This table is a clear example of what a complete accounting of German forces should look like. There is no such data on German forces in the Operation Bagration zone. But such information is necessary for a complete accounting of German forces in the operation.

On March 1, 1944, there were approximately 50 divisions in the West, with over 800 men in the troops. Army Group Center before Bagration had approximately the same number of units and men. But the total number of men in the German group in the West was one and a half million. The above table shows that this number was achieved due to the fact that the group included, in addition to the army, also the police, the Air Force, the Navy, allies, service personnel, etc.

But the same elements were also included in the German group in Belarus, increasing its overall numbers. The Army Group "Center" had allied troops - 5 Hungarian divisions, as well as foreign volunteers. The German source estimates the number of collaborators in the Army Group "Center" zone to be approximately 100.

A large number of people in the German group should be added by the Air Force, which was distinguished by the large number of its personnel. The German Air Force also included quite numerous air defense units. The 2nd Anti-Aircraft Corps, which operated in the GA Center zone, included three anti-aircraft artillery divisions and a brigade - these forces should definitely be included in the calculation of the German group in the operation.

In the West, the German Air Force numbered 337 people. Was the Luftwaffe smaller in Belarus? The 000th Air Fleet, which supported the Center Group, was a fairly large unit – more than 6 aircraft (900 serviceable). In the West, there were about the same number of aircraft (with fewer serviceable ones).

During the battle, Luftwaffe ground personnel suffered losses as a result of intensive air raids on airfields, and flight personnel suffered losses in air battles. But the nature of Operation Bagration was such that the German Air Force was also drawn into ground battles. Anti-aircraft units were required to engage in combat with the enemy on the ground that had broken through. Air Force personnel were trapped in pockets or became the target of Soviet attacks on retreating columns. And during the battle, Air Force personnel were transferred to front-line units.

Abandoned German anti-aircraft gun in Mogilev

Now about the column "police" - it includes German police troops. These are precisely troops consisting of Germans. In 1944, German police formations numbered more than 500 people, which makes them a noticeable part of Hitler's forces. In partisan Belarus, the Germans were forced to maintain a large police group; the most famous of them was the so-called Gottberg battle group, which consisted of several police regiments, had its own artillery and even armored vehicles. And police units were also thrown to the front during the battle. Some analogues of the German police troops on the Soviet side were the NKVD troops. They entered the battle during German breakthroughs, and their losses are included in the total losses of the USSR armed forces (approximately 100 out of the total 000 million).


German police unit in Belarus

Soviet sources estimate the number of enemy troops at the beginning of the operation at 1,2 million people. And this figure should be considered minimally correct. The figure of 486 from German sources is a lie of the unfinished super-subhumans.

The second stage should follow the determination of the number of German troops at the beginning of the operation – the calculation of the German forces introduced into the battle during the operation. During the battle, which lasted more than two months, the German side introduced a lot of troops – they should be added to the initial number. On the Soviet side, 46 divisions were counted, as well as 22 separate regiments and 7 brigades (which gives another 10 calculated divisions), additionally introduced by the Germans into the battle. There were also many smaller units, so Tippelskikh mentions dozens of separate battalions thrown into the battle. It should be assumed that only in the composition of new formations and units the Germans threw into the battle at least another half a million people. Also, a stream of marching reinforcements went to the front to the units already there.



The enemy forces in front of the operation also included troops of the Army Group "North" (87th, 205th, 290th, 389th Infantry Divisions) and the Army Group "Northern Ukraine" (56th Tank Corps: 4th Infantry Division (26th, 131st, 253rd, 342nd), 2nd Tank Division (4th, 5th), 28th Jaeger, 1st Ski-Jaeger, 454th Security).

During the battle, the Germans added eleven more tank divisions to the three they initially had (3rd, 6th, 7th, 12th, 14th, 19th, 25th, 3rd SS, 5th SS Viking, Hermann Goering, Grossdeutschland). The 1st, 367th Infantry Division, and 5th Jaeger Division were transferred from Army Group Northern Ukraine; the 17th Infantry Division from Army Group Southern Ukraine; and the 21st, 58th, 69th, 170th, and 212th Infantry Divisions were transferred from Army Group North to Army Group Center. Also in Army Group North to the southern flank affected by Operation Bagration, already in early July the 24th, 81st, 132nd, 215th Infantry Divisions were transferred from the center and northern flank. Subsequently, other units were also transferred to the southern flank. From Germany to Army Group Center the 50th and 73rd Infantry Divisions were transferred, from Norway the 196th Infantry Division. Also in July the formation of fifteen new grenadier divisions began, from the end of July they began to advance to the area of ​​Army Group Center. The formation of ten new tank brigades also began, some of which took part in the battle.


German reinforcements are heading to the front

In general, taking into account all the forces on the German side that took part in the battle, gives grounds to determine their size at least at 1,8 million (excluding service personnel, paramilitary organizations, allies and collaborators (including Lithuanian, Latvian, Azerbaijani, etc. formations)). This figure is the basis on which to assess the losses suffered by the German side. The nature of Operation Bagration allows us to assume that German losses in this battle were so great that they significantly exceeded Soviet losses. The German forces that took part in the battle were quite sufficient for such losses (more than 800).


An example of a German paramilitary organization in battle - the Reich Labor Service prepares positions for retreating German troops

The applied methodology of operations research is applicable to other cases as well. For example, Wikipedia has an article on the “First Jassy-Kishinev Operation”. In Soviet historiography, these battles of April-June 1944 in the Romanian direction were not singled out as a separate battle; in the 12-volume “History In WWII, two paragraphs are devoted to them, although it is noted that the battles were fierce, both sides tried to solve their offensive tasks - and both failed. These battles were combined into a separate battle in Western historiography, an example being the book by D. Glantz, from which the data in Wikipedia is taken (including the data copied into the Russian Wikiarticle on the operation). In terms of the balance of forces, Glantz gives the Soviet side a threefold advantage (830 against 000 for the enemy; the same threefold excess is given for the losses of the Soviet side).

There is no need to look for Glantz's book and understand it. The very thesis about the threefold excess of Soviet forces and their losses (in mid-1944) shows that this is another fake. The methods of its creation are the same as for "Bagration". On our side, everything and everyone is counted, and on the German side - only, so to speak, the clean Wehrmacht - its so-called combat strength (it is clear that the "clean Wehrmacht" is a joke, intended to remind us that the entire Wehrmacht was dirty due to its mass participation in war crimes). But the Wehrmacht, in addition to combat units, also included various rear services, making up about 40% of its total strength. These percentages should immediately increase the declared number of German forces in battle - and this will be far from their full figure.

Müller-Hillebrand gives the Wehrmacht strength on the Soviet front in June 1944 as 2,2 million people, of which the share of the Southern Ukraine Army Group, operating in the Romanian direction, accounted for more than 500 people (this was after the withdrawal of a number of units from the Army Group, since a relative lull had set in in its sector). To this figure should be added the forces of the Luftwaffe (at least, the numerous anti-aircraft gunners among the Germans for sure) and the SS, also not included by M-G in the Wehrmacht strength. In addition to the Germans, another 000 Romanian divisions and 18 brigades were involved in this sector.

All this allows us to conclude that in the "First Jassy-Kishinev Operation" approximately equal forces from the Soviet and Nazi sides clashed. The losses of the sides should also be approximately equal, since there was nothing catastrophic in the nature of the battle for the Soviet side. On the contrary, there were many unsuccessful German-Romanian attacks, in which the enemy should have suffered more losses than the Soviet side.

P.S. This publication is based on an article in the Military History Journal (No. 3, 2024, “On the problem of calculating the enemy’s forces and losses in Operation Bagration in 1944”), also authored by me.
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  1. + 21
    21 June 2025 04: 51
    I realized long ago that modern German historians can lie worse than when they go fishing.
    There is a certain Hans-Ulrich Rudel... so the Germans attribute 512 destroyed Russian tanks to him based only on his testimony... smile He probably shot them down with machine gun bursts at random...a storyteller.
    I don't trust the Germans in this matter at all.
    1. + 25
      21 June 2025 05: 09
      "Never do they lie so much as during war, after hunting and before elections"
      1. +7
        21 June 2025 05: 25
        Quote: soundmind
        "Never do they lie so much as during war, after hunting and before elections"

        By the way, it was the German Bismarck who said this.
        1. +9
          21 June 2025 06: 38
          Out of tediousness - this phrase began to be attributed to Bismarck after his death, but it appeared earlier.
    2. -21
      21 June 2025 11: 48
      Aleksandr Efimov (1923-2012) graduated from aviation school in 1942, and in August of the same year he began flying combat missions as part of the 594th Assault Aviation Regiment of the Western Front. But already in November, Aleksandr was transferred to the 198th ShAP, where the pilot fought until April 1945. By May 1943, Efimov had risen to the rank of attack aircraft flight commander, and in July 1944, Senior Lieutenant Efimov headed the 2nd Squadron of his regiment. Aleksandr flew a lot, participated in battles over Rzhev, Bryansk, Vyazma, Smolensk, and over Belarus (at that time, his regiment fought as part of the 2nd Belorussian Front). On October 26, 1944, when the number of combat sorties of Efimov exceeded 100, he was awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. And Captain Efimov ended the war as a navigator of the 62nd ShAP, to which he was transferred for promotion in April 1945. In total, during the war, Alexander Efimov made 222 combat sorties, and for this on August 18.08.1945, XNUMX, he was awarded the title of Twice Hero of the Soviet Union.
      Captain Efimov's combat score is very impressive: he knocked out 126 German tanks, destroyed 30 trains, 193 field and 43 anti-aircraft guns, and in air battles he shot down 2 aircraft personally and 5 in a group.
      In total, Efimov has 222 combat sorties.
      - 126 tanks destroyed, an average of 0,57 tanks per sortie.
      - 193 field and 43 anti-aircraft guns, an average of 1,06 guns per sortie.
      Rudel has 2530 combat sorties
      - 519 tanks destroyed, an average of 0,2 tanks per sortie
      - 150 artillery pieces, an average of 0,06 pieces per sortie

      https://www.liveinternet.ru/community/4677619/post473565436/

      You don't trust the Germans, you say? laughing
      1. + 18
        21 June 2025 13: 11
        Quote: Melior
        In total, Efimov has 222 combat sorties.
        - 126 tanks destroyed, an average of 0,57 tanks per sortie.
        - 193 field and 43 anti-aircraft guns, an average of 1,06 guns per sortie.
        Rudel has 2530 combat sorties
        - 519 tanks destroyed, an average of 0,2 tanks per sortie
        - 150 artillery pieces, an average of 0,06 pieces per flight

        Here are Goebbels' grandchildren - what a guy. He earned enough for the Bavarian stuff.
        Rudel flew a Ju-87 with two 37 mm unsynchronized guns with a recoil of 7 tons of ammunition, 15 rounds per gun, and sub-caliber shells that had an insignificant after-armor effect.
        Experiments conducted in the USSR with 37-mm Sh-37 guns mounted on the Il-2 (recoil 4 tons, ammo 50 rounds per barrel) convincingly showed that the probability of hitting a tank is no more than 2%. Considering the small ammunition load, low probability of hitting, and low destructive effect, if the gun did hit something, it was only with a finger in its own rear end.
        On the contrary, the Il-2 was armed with 192 cumulative bombs, with a destruction zone of 15 by 190 m.
        On the highway, the vehicles move in a marching column with an interval of 10 m. This means that with a successful approach, several units can be hit at once - in this case, the hit occurred from above - which led to a virtually 100% probability of causing serious damage. (Even a hit in the nose overhang or fender led to damage to the transmission or track.
        The high losses during the movement of mechanized units in a column from the actions of the Il-2 are confirmed by the Germans themselves, for example von Mellenthin - there is nothing similar in Soviet historiography regarding the cannon modifications of the Ju-87.
        1. -17
          21 June 2025 13: 49
          It was because of such crude lies, mixed with insults, that official propaganda lost to all sorts of rezuns! laughing
          1. + 11
            21 June 2025 15: 47
            What is the lie in my post?
            1. -11
              21 June 2025 16: 14
              if Rudel ever got anywhere, it was only with his finger in his own ass
              1. +3
                21 June 2025 20: 56
                I wonder, for example, how you would treat the scammers who robbed you?
                1. -3
                  21 June 2025 22: 27
                  That's how I treat him: I call him a swindler and admit that he robbed me, but I don't say that he's lying and "got his finger in his own ass"!
      2. +8
        22 June 2025 22: 15
        Regarding Rudel. 2530 combat sorties? Do you believe it yourself? That's 8 sorties a day the entire war, without vacations and always excellent weather! Don't make me laugh, melior, there are no such numbers and not even close... And of course, to believe the Germans, that's beyond words. Dr. Goebbels was so truthful that he became a synonym for lies.
        1. -1
          5 September 2025 12: 02
          Quote: Glagol1
          8 sorties a day throughout the war

          Rudel did not start fighting in 41; in fact, he spent 3 years in battles without any counteraction from aviation or air defense.
        2. 0
          13 September 2025 17: 50
          "Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is always an orphan!!!" - Kennedy said this. "Disinformation must be as monstrous as a savage's drawing. Then it will be believed." And this is a statement by Goebbels' propagandist. Whistle (to please the moderators) is not like moving sacks. Suck numbers out of your finger is not like breaking the back of the fascists in Operation Bagration. IMHO
        3. 0
          13 September 2025 17: 59
          Combat tension according to the books of Marshals Kozhedub - "Loyalty to the Fatherland. Seeking a fight." and Pokryshkin "The Sky of War" reached a maximum of four!!! sorties per day. And this is the maximum. The norm was considered to be one or two.
      3. 0
        30 November 2025 18: 50
        In the same publication, there is an article somewhere about the falsification of Soviet submariners.
    3. +3
      21 June 2025 21: 49
      512 tanks? I don't think he saw that many during the entire war.
      1. 0
        13 September 2025 17: 52
        Like in the joke: "..I see they don't check the cards. Gentlemen. Then I felt like shit..."
    4. +1
      21 June 2025 23: 14
      Rudel fired so many times, 512, probably in the direction of our tanks...
    5. KCA
      0
      26 June 2025 13: 21
      They also had super-Aces, they also shot down hundreds of our planes, but they were credited with the number of engines shot down, 1 - 1 shot down, 4 - 4 shot down, and like true Aryans they were taken at their word, but ours didn't have enough film from a machine gun, until the shot down plane itself was found, they weren't counted, so the exact number of our aces who were shot down is unknown, they could have fallen into a swamp, they could have exploded in the air, they weren't found, etc.
    6. +2
      28 June 2025 18: 45
      Quote: The same Lech
      I realized long ago that modern German historians can lie worse than when they go fishing.
      There is a certain Hans-Ulrich Rudel... so the Germans attribute 512 destroyed Russian tanks to him based only on his testimony... smile He probably shot them down with machine gun bursts at random...a storyteller.
      I don't trust the Germans in this matter at all.

      You can't trust the Germans, but 26 million losses in WWII say something. In addition, there is data from the Russian Ministry of Defense confirming the names of the deceased servicemen.
      1. 0
        5 September 2025 12: 04
        Quote from Kartograph
        but 26 million losses in WWII

        where not all the dead were soldiers. For example, during the first raid on Stalingrad, no less than 4 divisions of civilians died.
      2. 0
        30 November 2025 20: 32
        Quote from Kartograph
        Quote: The same Lech
        I realized long ago that modern German historians can lie worse than when they go fishing.
        There is a certain Hans-Ulrich Rudel... so the Germans attribute 512 destroyed Russian tanks to him based only on his testimony... smile He probably shot them down with machine gun bursts at random...a storyteller.
        I don't trust the Germans in this matter at all.

        You can't trust the Germans, but 26 million losses in WWII say something. In addition, there is data from the Russian Ministry of Defense confirming the names of the deceased servicemen.

        Well, if I'm not mistaken, of those 26 million, 2 million were killed or starved to death in POW concentration camps. According to the Ministry of Defense, irreparable losses in the troops during WWII were somewhere around 7,5 million people (those killed, died of wounds, and diseases). And all the rest—those shot, tortured, suffocated in gas vans, burned alive, civilians killed in bombings, etc.—include those who died in the rear from disease (including at least 1 million civilians who died of starvation during the siege of Leningrad). And in your opinion, can we trust German data that during the war they lost only 5,5 million irreparably on the Eastern Front and about 500,000 on the Western? So why then did Germany, with its own population of 69 million in 1939, mobilize 15-year-olds into the air defense forces and 16-year-olds into the Wehrmacht in 1945? And this 69 million figure doesn't include the population of Austria, which had 6.9 million in 1939 and was mobilized along with Germany? It turns out that Germany lost less than 10% of its population during the war, and even if another 5 million had been discharged due to disability, there would still have been no need to mobilize 15- to 60-year-olds into the Volkssturm! hi
  2. + 26
    21 June 2025 05: 30
    They won, won, won, but how the Russians ended up in Berlin and even forced them to capitulate is a mystery. That's the logic in these German heads. And for some reason it only concerns us. The defeat by the Anglo-Saxons is not in doubt. Moreover, it was they who won the war, we just stood on the sidelines.
    1. +8
      21 June 2025 07: 00
      France!!! Here is the brightest representative of the winners
      1. +4
        21 June 2025 07: 41
        Oh, that's true! And also the Romanians and the Finns..., well, and there are many more such winners...
      2. KCA
        0
        26 June 2025 13: 28
        There were heroes in France, they cut the telephone cables to the Eiffel Tower so that Hitler couldn't call during an excursion, the Czechs were also heroes, they went to work regularly and assembled tanks and other things for the Germans, but the heroes pinned a pin to the inside of their jacket collar as a sign of protest, of course, not all of them were like that, but there were some, the Slovaks were generally allies of Germany
    2. +5
      21 June 2025 16: 45
      Quote: Alexey 1970
      The defeat by the Anglo-Saxons is not in doubt. Moreover, it was they who won the war, we just stood on the sidelines.

      they stood so sideways that they destroyed 75% of the fascist coalition, statistics are stubborn things, no matter what these "winners" say, 75% were destroyed on the Eastern Front compared to all other theaters of military operations combined
      1. 0
        5 September 2025 12: 10
        Quote: poquello
        stood on the side, that destroyed 75% of the fascist coalition

        Contribution to victory and the winner are not the same thing.
        For the USSR, WW2 was both a great victory and a heavy defeat at the same time, because the country suffered heavy damage. For example, the Communist Party of 41 was physically almost completely wiped out, and other government personnel suffered very seriously, which later had a serious impact on the history of the country. The western part of the country was burned almost completely.
        If we look at the war as a win-lose balance, then probably only the Americans were winners, everyone else lost more, including the Anglo-Saxons.
        1. 0
          5 September 2025 17: 38
          Quote: multicaat
          If we look at the war as a win-lose balance, then the Americans were probably the only winners.

          it's not a winner, it's a beneficiary
          1. 0
            8 September 2025 10: 57
            Quote: poquello
            it's not a winner, it's a beneficiary

            You know, some strange understanding of war is cultivated in our society, where they try to evaluate its result by "frags" and "valor", but in fact, the assessment of war is assessed not by how many divisions, tanks, planes you ground up, but by what result was achieved from what was possible for a specific country. And what did the USSR achieve? They defended their existence, but that was before the war. And what else? Kaliningrad and four islands in the Kuril Islands? Short-lived control of Eastern Europe as a security cordon? But isn't the price too high for such an achievement? They had to pay with the actual destruction of a quarter of the country in people and material values ​​and terrible demographic problems for 4 years to come. And is that really the maximum possible? Well, compare what the USA achieved as a result of the war and at what cost.
            I don't care what you call them. In fact, this country broke the bank, all the others definitely lost and some only achieved that they didn't lose very much. This is clearly visible in the trade balance, the finances of the countries after the war.

            Did the USSR contribute to the successful end of the war? Yes, a huge one! And who benefited from the result? The USSR gave a very large part of the fruits of victory to other countries.
            For example, he dragged France, Finland and Romania into the ranks of winners.
            1. 0
              8 September 2025 18: 18
              Quote: multicaat
              but in fact, the assessment of a war is assessed not by how many divisions, tanks, and planes you have crushed, but by what result has been achieved out of what is possible for a particular country.

              Don't talk nonsense, there are fighters, and there are bookmakers, bettors, fees, etc.
              1. -1
                9 September 2025 08: 41
                What do stakes have to do with it? Take the Germans. How long did they fight in WWI and WW2? And what did they achieve? What's the point of kneading millions of enemies if in the end you end up with nothing. The same with the USSR. It fought a lot, but for survival and for its own safety. And that's all.
                And what did the US get? Half of Britain's colonies, huge markets, de facto control over more than 80% of international trade, huge profits from military production, a big technological leap, huge political influence, etc. And all this for very moderate losses, they had more deaths in car accidents. Do you feel the difference?
                1. 0
                  9 September 2025 18: 46
                  Quote: multicaat
                  what do the stakes have to do with it?

                  the winner is the one who won on the battlefield, and the beneficiary is the one who profited from it, isn't it clear?
                  1. 0
                    10 September 2025 08: 31
                    Quote: poquello
                    the winner is the one who wins on the battlefield

                    Well, tell that to Pyrrhus. The victory in WW2 for the USSR was truly Pyrrhic.
  3. +4
    21 June 2025 05: 51
    Yaroslav! Very interesting article. You are great. The only thing I would like to note is that you too often insert "abusive epithets" in relation to the Germans. I understand that they are "bad", but we treat the victorious people, and it is not proper for us to curse like some kind of trifle and losers. Once said and that's enough. It humiliates us more than the enemy. Remember the words of K. Simonov: "Yes, the enemy was brave, the greater is our glory!"
  4. -2
    21 June 2025 06: 01
    Too many emotions, that's not how research is done, and typical adjustment to the result, since a significant part of the German documents were lost, we will never know about their loss.
    But to count only the active bayonets in your own army, and all the enemy’s troops, including the builders, according to their regular numbers, is sacred.
    1. +5
      21 June 2025 16: 15
      The main criterion for the calculation, as I understand it, is the following. In May 1945, we had a group of at least 5 million in Europe, including Germany. With virtually no allies on the Eastern Front. The Germans (not counting the Germans themselves) had everyone against us. In fact, the entire European Union. And at the same time, in 1945, the Fritzes were raking in everyone they could get their hands on into their Volkssturm. From the old to the young. And who, one wonders, was throwing corpses at whom...?((.
      1. -2
        21 June 2025 18: 57
        The calculation is carried out based on documents; if there are no documents, there is nothing to count.
      2. -1
        28 June 2025 18: 48
        Quote: Pavel Kosse
        The Germans (not counting the Germans themselves) had everyone against us. In fact, the entire European Union

        What European Union, what are you talking about? By 45, almost all of them had capitulated. Well, if you consider 1 Spanish and 1 Italian division the entire European Union, then of course.
        1. -1
          29 June 2025 10: 23
          The European Union was not against us. But about 1 Spanish and 1 Italian division - this is already a stupid throw-in
          About two million Romanians, more than a million Hungarians, half a million Finns passed through the Soviet-German front. And there were more Italians on our front than in North Africa
          1. 0
            29 June 2025 17: 01
            Quote: Yaroslav Kidinov
            The European Union was not against us. But about 1 Spanish and 1 Italian division - this is already a stupid throw-in
            About two million Romanians, more than a million Hungarians, half a million Finns passed through the Soviet-German front. And there were more Italians on our front than in North Africa

            Do not tell my sneakers.
            Italy.
            At the time of the corps' creation in June-July 1941, its forces were as follows: about 3 officers and 000 soldiers, 59 motor vehicles and over 000 horses and mules, 5 light and medium tanks, 500 tankettes.
            By November 1942, ARMIR numbered 235 men in twelve divisions and four brigades.
            Romania.
            As of June 1941, the Kingdom of Romania provided 12 infantry and 1 guards divisions, 1 armored division, 1 border division, 3 mountain, 3 cavalry and 2 fortress brigades, with a total of 326 thousand military personnel, in support of the Wehrmacht's operations against the USSR.
            At the same time, in the Battle of Stalingrad, the Soviet troops struck precisely through the Italians and Romanians, who were so-so warriors, and the front collapsed, allowing the encirclement to be completed. At the same time, Italy capitulated in 1943 and Romania in 1944. And the same Romanians began to fight against the Germans. As did the Finns. What 2 million Romanians are we talking about is a mystery to me.
            1. -2
              30 June 2025 17: 41
              Well, look at the forces of the Italian army on the Soviet front further in time - in the spring of 1942 there were already 12 divisions and 300 people.
              Look at Romania - how many people they mobilized into their army during the war, how many they lost, what was the size of their army on our front in 1941-44 in different periods. History ceases to be a mystery if you just look at open sources on historical events.
              1. 0
                30 June 2025 22: 31
                Quote: Yaroslav Kidinov
                Well, look at the forces of the Italian army on the Soviet front further in time - in the spring of 1942 it was already 12 divisions and 300 people

                Where then?
                By November 1942, ARMIR numbered 235 men.
                In the spring of 1942, the Italians began to strengthen their group in the East. Seven more divisions were sent there, and the II (former IRGC) and XXXV Army Corps appeared in Russia. Together with the Alpine Corps, they formed the 7th Italian Army (ARMIR). The Italians took part in the German operation "Blau", securing the flanks of the German troops. By August 8, the front had stabilized on the Don River line. The Italians fought, trying to eliminate the Soviet bridgeheads, but they failed.

                At that time, the 8th Italian Army - ARMIR (Armata Italiana in Russia) consisted of: Soldiers - 229.000.

                In January 1943, the surviving Italian units were withdrawn to the relatively calm Ukraine, and by March most of them had gone home. Only a small number of Italians remained in the East to fight the partisans.
              2. -1
                30 June 2025 23: 00
                Quote: Yaroslav Kidinov
                Look at Romania - how many people they mobilized into their army during the war, how many they lost, what was the size of their army on our front in 1941-44 in different periods.

                In total, Romania lost 350 thousand people in battles with Soviet troops, and at the end of the war another 170 thousand in battles with German and Hungarian troops.
                1. 0
                  1 July 2025 13: 02
                  Runivers, or where did you get the numbers from - a mediocre source, especially since it doesn't provide links - where these numbers came from. There are other, higher numbers of Romanian losses on the Soviet front
    2. +3
      21 June 2025 20: 12
      Quote: Cartalon
      Since a significant part of the German documents were destroyed, we will never know their losses.

      Incorrect. A significant portion of the documents were never compiled by the Germans.
      1. -1
        21 June 2025 20: 25
        I'm terribly sorry, but the Germans didn't keep track of the movement of personnel?
        1. +3
          21 June 2025 21: 30
          Quote: Cartalon
          The Germans did not keep records of personnel movements?

          They behaved so badly... that it doesn't look like pedantic Germans at all.
          The conscripts were recorded... But only natural Germans, while all those who were conscripted from conquered territories (if my memory serves me right up to Austria) were not included in the reports. Monstrous structural confusion - the Wehrmacht reported on its losses, for example (very crookedly, see Müller-Hillebrand), but where are the losses of Goering's 22 airfield divisions? The SS losses were supposedly recorded, but there were so many "buts"...
          Simply put, each structure pursued personal, narrow departmental interests in its reports.
  5. +6
    21 June 2025 07: 26
    They believe that German troops inflicted twice as many losses on the Soviet side as the Germans themselves suffered.

    The proportions in the process can be endlessly debated. But you can't count your chickens before they hatch. In the end, the Nazis lost the country, the army was routed, and the population and captured soldiers surrendered to the mercy of the victors. The victors took everything.
    1. +1
      21 June 2025 09: 29
      Quote: Stas157
      As a result, the Nazis lost the country, the army was routed, and the population and captured soldiers surrendered to the mercy of the victors. The victors took everything.

      And then the FRG increased its territory at the expense of the GDR, NATO its at the expense of the Warsaw Pact and pieces of the USSR, and the USSR perished.
      1. +4
        21 June 2025 09: 46
        Quote: your1970
        And then Germany

        I wrote about Nazi Germany. The FRG (and then the united Germany) carried out large-scale work to condemn Nazism. And this is already a different country with a different regime.
        1. +3
          21 June 2025 10: 04
          Quote: Stas157
          I wrote about Nazi Germany. The FRG (and then the united Germany) carried out large-scale work to condemn Nazism

          tell me about the FRG with... "convicted Nazism" belay
        2. -2
          21 June 2025 10: 10
          Quote: Stas157
          The FRG (and later the united Germany) carried out extensive work to condemn Nazism.

          Hmm, they condemned with words, but what about with deeds?
    2. 0
      22 June 2025 02: 00
      Even if our losses were greater (I deeply doubt it), this does not in the least diminish the undoubted and far-reaching success of Operation Bagration.
    3. -1
      28 June 2025 18: 49
      Quote: Stas157
      They believe that German troops inflicted twice as many losses on the Soviet side as the Germans themselves suffered.

      The proportions in the process can be endlessly debated. But you can't count your chickens before they hatch. In the end, the Nazis lost the country, the army was routed, and the population and captured soldiers surrendered to the mercy of the victors. The victors took everything.

      Then let's put it this way. Who lived better after the war - the vanquished or the victors?
      1. 0
        28 June 2025 18: 56
        Quote from Kartograph
        Then let's put it this way. Who lived better after the war - the vanquished or the victors?

        And who do you think won? It wasn't by chance that you asked such a question!
        1. -1
          29 June 2025 09: 30
          Quote: Stas157
          Quote from Kartograph
          Then let's put it this way. Who lived better after the war - the vanquished or the victors?

          And who do you think won? It wasn't by chance that you asked such a question!

          I think that the countries of the Anti-Hitler coalition won. But the question of who began to live better remains.
  6. -4
    21 June 2025 07: 33
    The author correctly raises questions, as they say in science, “setting the problem.”
    Unfortunately, this topic is not being addressed at all due to a lack of sources and...labor costs.
    There are many questions and the topic is extremely relevant.
    1. +7
      21 June 2025 12: 08
      Yeah, it's easier for a turner at a machine than for a historian in a library... Just look at their dissertations like "Lenin and the Revolution", "The Role of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks in the Construction of a Hut in Razliv"... How many candidate and doctoral theses have been written on this crap. And remember the "Komsomol members and political officers" - whom I knew for a long time - already abroad: Israel, Canada, USA, Ukraine. And "Favorite KVS Magazine"... It would be better if the history of the Great Patriotic War was studied in more detail and more carefully and told to the soldiers, and not the speeches of the Chief of the Main Political Directorate at the next "gathering" of windbags.
  7. +2
    21 June 2025 07: 37
    And before Operation Bagration

    In the second half of 1943 and early 1944 (from September 1943 to March 1944), the 33rd Army, in cooperation with other armies of the Western Front, carried out five main offensive operations (and many intermediate operations) with the task of breaking through the enemy's defenses and capturing first Orsha (while operating east of Orsha), and then the city of Vitebsk (while operating southeast of Vitebsk).
    With great zeal and desire, the overwhelming majority of generals and officers of the army took on this mission, but having suffered colossal losses, they did not achieve the desired results. During this period, the 33rd Army lost 20975 people killed alone, and in total lost 103 people killed, wounded and missing, including 011 division commanders killed and 3 wounded, 1 deputy commanders and chiefs of staff of divisions killed and wounded, 8 regiment commanders and their deputies, 38 battalion commanders, during the same period the army lost 174 tanks and 419 self-propelled guns burned and destroyed by enemy artillery and aviation directly on the battlefield; due to an unsuccessful introduction to develop success, the 60nd Guards Tatsinsky Tank Corps suffered heavy losses and was rendered incapacitated.

    And in June, suddenly, we won with minimal losses... It was a terrible war and our losses were great. The 2nd Guards Motorcycle Regiment took part in Operation Bagration. Here's how many fighters were left from 4 companies, 49... they were all awarded the Order of Glory, the commander of the perished battery, Yerzikov, was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union, the regiment blocked the retreat of German units from the cauldron, in 1984 a documentary film "Thank You, Soldier" was shot about those events. Here's a photo of the 2nd Guards Motorcycle Regiment... 49 soldiers
    1. +4
      21 June 2025 08: 44
      Our cause is just, the enemy will be defeated, victory will be ours!

      Quote: Konnick
      The war was terrible and our losses were great.

      Our military the losses were comparable to the combined losses of the West ~ 7 million on each side. 20 million peaceful Soviet citizens were deliberately killed in the occupied territories. The war was aimed at our complete destruction. The current fascists in Ukraine are doing the same thing - throwing some Russians against others into the meat grinder of war.
      1. +6
        21 June 2025 08: 56
        I will add. 7 million are the losses of the KRRA and the Wehrmacht, without taking into account the losses of the troops that took part in the war with us on Hitler's side. We, as Generalissimo Suvorov bequeathed to us, know how to fight not with numbers, but with skill. We demonstrate this today in the SVO.
    2. +5
      21 June 2025 10: 02
      Quote: Konnick
      And in June, suddenly, they won with minimal losses.

      what other "suddenly"?

      how much we prepared, planned, researched - at all levels:
      for example Gorbatov's 3rd Army:
      "We [the command and staff officers of the 3rd Army] created a relief plan of our zone up to the Berezina River. We used it to conduct training with corps and division commanders and their deputies. The corps and division commanders, in turn, conducted training with their subordinates on the same plans, but of the zones in which they were to attack. We prepared for the attack thoroughly. Many training sessions were held in companies and battalions. We learned to fight in wooded and swampy terrain, to cross rivers, to cross using improvised means

      And the result was appropriate:

      : “Thanks to the exceptionally strong offensive drive of the entire army personnel and the initiative of commanders of all categories for these 17 days In addition to the enemy's powerful defense on the Drut River, dozens of defensive lines covered by swampy rivers were overcome. The army advanced 350 kilometers, crossed the Berezina, Neman, reached the Shchara River, together with its neighbors captured the cities of Bobruisk and Minsk, liberated 5000 settlements, including the regional centers of Cherven, Dukhovichi, Rudensk, Negoreloye, Stolbtsy, Novogrudok, Novoselnya, Dyatlovo, Karelichi, Gorodishche, Dvorets.

      Enormous losses were inflicted on a large number of enemy units, including: the 6th, 12th, 29th, 31st, 35th, 36th, 45th, 78th, 134th, 286th and 383rd Infantry Divisions; the 12th, 18th and 20th Tank Divisions, the 51st Communications Regiment, the 17th Airfield Regiment and many reinforcements. 27 prisoners were captured, including the commander of the 900th Army Corps, Lieutenant General Baron von Lutzev, the commander of the 35th Infantry Division, Lieutenant General Heine, the commander of the 6th Infantry Division, Major General Konratsi, the former commandant of the city of Orel, General Hamman, the commandants of Karachev, Bryansk, the executioner of Bobruisk, Major General Goman, and over 36 officers.

      The following weapons were captured in good condition: 92 tanks and self-propelled guns, 482 artillery pieces, 549 mortars, 2278 machine guns, 13 rifles and submachine guns, 104 tractors, 31 vehicles, 1310 carts with various cargo and other trophies. It is quite clear that many times more manpower, weapons and equipment were destroyed...»
      1. -14
        21 June 2025 10: 13
        Why couldn't they do it until June? And you think that the relief model helped? Or maybe it was because it was against 60 Luftwaffe fighters that remained after almost all German aviation, covering the Center Army Group, was relocated to France after June 6, and Stalin collected 6000 of our aircraft from several fronts?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. + 11
          21 June 2025 10: 54
          "Or maybe the fact that against 60 Luftwaffe fighters, which remained after almost all German aviation, covering the Center Army Group, was relocated to France after June 6, and Stalin collected 6000 of our aircraft from several fronts?" Well, yes, it is Stalin's fault that the Germans have so few fighters. By the way, you followed in the footsteps of German historians, considering that the Germans have only fighters, and we have all the aircraft, even the faulty ones.
        3. +4
          21 June 2025 11: 14
          Quote: Konnick
          Why couldn't they do it until June?

          Why couldn't they do it in June 41? In June 42?
          Quote: Konnick
          Why weren't these results in the winter of 43-44?

          What do you mean "it wasn't", what are you saying?
          And the crossing of the DNIEPER, the destruction of bridgeheads on the left bank, the crossing of the Drut, the capture of Rogachev, etc., etc.
          In four days of offensive battles we achieved considerable results. We crossed the Dnieper, broke through the enemy's heavily fortified defensive line, captured an operationally advantageous bridgehead measuring sixty-two kilometers along the front and up to thirty kilometers deep (this bridgehead later played a major role in the summer Bobruisk operation). Our troops cleared the enemy of an operationally important bridgehead on the eastern bank of the Dnieper. We liberated the city of Rogachev, cut the Zhlobin-Mogilev railway line, which was important for the enemy. And finally, we captured a bridgehead on the Drut River. Over eight thousand enemy soldiers and officers, as well as a large amount of equipment, were destroyed during the battles. 18 tanks, 5 self-propelled guns, 22 armored vehicles, 170 guns and mortars, 2100 rifles and 300 machine guns, 102 vehicles, 240 horses, 63 thousand shells, 80 thousand anti-tank mines, 12 million cartridges and other property were captured. Many prisoners were taken.

          A.Gorbatov
          .
      2. -3
        21 June 2025 10: 25
        Quote: Olgovich
        the result was appropriate:

        And why weren't there these results in the winter of 43-44? And have you heard about Tolkonyuk's letter to Stalin? I provided an excerpt about the losses in the commentary. And all these losses were already during the concentration of troops before the offensive, before combat contact, only by artillery shelling with airborne correction. The defense of the Army Group Center was artillery and aviation, the Germans had a little more than 100 tanks, but a well-developed system of long-range artillery fire control, which was destroyed by our aviation at the beginning of Operation Bagration...otherwise it would have been like in the winter
        1. -5
          21 June 2025 10: 38
          Quote: Konnick
          Defense of the GA Center was artillery

          And now in Ukraine the defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is based on artillery with air correction, it is artillery that does not allow concentrating forces to break through defenses, encirclements and other tactical techniques, you have to stupidly storm frontally. Now they will start talking about drones... drones are good only against sparse troop formations... artillery mainly hits, and to extinguish it you need Combat Aviation with air supremacy, which our strategists and tacticians cannot create
          1. +1
            21 June 2025 17: 54
            artillery relies on reconnaissance. Now the Ukrainian Armed Forces receive intelligence data many times less and their artillery, by the way, has become considerably thinner, is very far from the effectiveness of 23 years.
            And the artillery of the center group had two problems - the first was the supply of shells after the Kursk Bulge, which was much more meager, and the second was transport. This was no longer the same maneuverable artillery of 2, which arrived where it was needed in hours together with shells, in 41 it was already moving slowly on horses, mobilized slow tractors and a few captured transporters and could not quickly respond to changing conditions, so the breakthroughs of our troops rarely met barriers, significantly reinforced by artillery.
      3. +1
        21 June 2025 12: 07
        Already in captivity, von Lutzow (he was still a member of the "Free Germany" committee) wrote a report on the actions of his corps in the last battles in Belarus on July 17, 1944, where he expressed his view on the offensive power of the Red Army:

        "The offensive power of the Red Army has increased because it has learned to better conceal its preparatory activities, to concentrate its troops on a large scale in the directions of the main attack, interacting with two or three attacking wedges to strike deep into the depths, and also because American military equipment is playing a large part in the offensive (as in the document - V.N.). Thanks to American supplies, the number of tanks, aircraft and vehicles has increased. The destructive hurricane fire of artillery and mortars has reached a high density (one gun for every 5 meters of the front line). Even if the methods of shooting, artillery tactics and maneuverability remained primitive, the density of fire has nevertheless reached extraordinary proportions. The Russian infantry has made observation, reconnaissance operations, ambushes, tracking, catching "tongues" during searches its great specialty and has many achievements in this area.

        In the offensive and defensive, the Russian infantry achieves what it should if it is energetically controlled by strong-willed commanders. In general, the success of the Russian infantry depends greatly on numerical superiority and uniformity of training. It has not reached the spiritual level and discipline of Western armies. Over the past year, the highest Russian commanders have successfully carried out a number of large operations. This is due to their growing experience in leading troops."

        In these words of the German general, I find interesting his positive assessment of the work of Soviet intelligence units. In 1944, other captured German officers and generals also gave them such an assessment.

        Source:

        TsAMO, fund 500, inventory 12480, file 31
        1. -5
          21 June 2025 12: 26
          Quote: Alex013
          The offensive power of the Red Army increased because it learned to better conceal its preparatory activities and to concentrate its troops on a large scale in the directions of the main attack.

          This is what I was talking about. We learned to hide it by not allowing German reconnaissance aircraft to patrol the front with their own aircraft. We simply gained air supremacy, and the Wehrmacht quickly withdrew without air support.
          1. +2
            21 June 2025 17: 10
            Quote: Konnick
            We simply gained air supremacy, and the Wehrmacht was quickly collapsing without air support.

            oh, what, why didn't Fritz take Moscow? he had dominance there at first too
          2. +4
            21 June 2025 17: 32
            You are absolutely wrong. By 44, our aviation had indeed become a problem for the Germans, but not so much as to interfere with reconnaissance. And camouflage was mainly achieved by a mass of practical and organizational measures - many military leaders wrote about this - moving at night with cover in the forests during the day, for example. This skill was honed in preparation for the Kursk Bulge, where camouflage was practiced for almost half a year.
        2. -1
          1 July 2025 15: 19
          Quote: Alex013
          if it is energetically managed by strong-willed commanders

          Quote: Alex013
          highly dependent on numerical superiority, uniformity of training

          Quote: Alex013
          It has not reached the spiritual level and discipline of Western armies.
  8. -5
    21 June 2025 08: 38
    If the Nazis lost not 700 thousand, but 5 million, then will any of us have a grandfather or great-grandfather return alive?
    Our country won. It matters. Remembering those who won matters.
    The author writes about errors in accounting for losses, and the commentators "about evil Hans, who always lie."
    Thanks for posting!
    1. +6
      21 June 2025 17: 38
      You are wrong, because it is important how they won. Historians from West Germany are pushing the version about throwing corpses, where there is no skill, no feat, no merit in the victory at all. This is a humiliating version that needs to be refuted. For example, my grandfather went from the autumn of 41 to Berlin in the infantry, on the front lines in many hot battles. Moreover, he received 3 wounds, but only from shrapnel. This means that the command did not throw him as a fool into machine guns or mines. If everything had happened as German historians say, he should have been killed 7 times, but he lived until perestroika and did not survive this.
  9. +2
    21 June 2025 09: 48
    Good afternoon!
    The article is really good, but I agree with Mr. Vyacheslav - why swear so much? After all, such materials are better suited to an impartial presentation.
    The fact is that the official German data is understated, and understated by a very large amount and not by a multiple. The reasoning is very simple - if the figures cited by Müller-Hillebrand were correct, then obviously the Germans in 1944-45 would not have needed any Volkssturm - they would have had more than enough young and "in their prime" men to staff their troops.
    Also, unfortunately, we have to admit that we will never know the true losses of the Germans - there is simply no documentary evidence for this, and the works of foreign historians are still nothing more than guesses of varying degrees of reliability.
    But, of course, refuting the official losses of the Wehrmacht, even on the basis of indirect data, is a matter of the utmost importance and utmost necessity; it is very good that you are doing this.
    Thank you!
    1. -11
      21 June 2025 10: 51
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Also, unfortunately, we have to admit that we will never know the true losses of the Germans - there is simply no documentary evidence for this.

      We'll find out, the losses are growing from year to year, I think an acceptable figure would be the losses of German troops three times as many as ours, not in Germany's favor, of course.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      But, of course, refuting the official losses of the Wehrmacht, even on the basis of indirect data, is a matter of the utmost importance and utmost necessity; it is very good that you are doing this.

      As part of the new political course of confrontation with the West, both the PVM and the RYA need to be rechecked, there too, not everything is clear with the numbers, if you calculate correctly, you can even bring Tsushima to a draw.
      1. +7
        21 June 2025 13: 53
        Quote: Skif3216
        We'll find out soon, the losses are growing year after year

        Maxim, I understand your pain:) Just 10 years ago, the respectable public was happily eating up the 50 million irretrievable losses of the Red Army and the 3,6 million killed and missing heroic Aryans.
        But times are changing, and critical thinking has awakened among the people. I suggest you come to terms with this.
        1. -5
          21 June 2025 23: 03
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Just 10 years ago, the respectable public was happily eating up the 50 million irretrievable losses of the Red Army and the 3,6 million killed and missing heroic Aryans.
          But times really are changing

          Was this written about in serious foreign sources? Or is it again the publication IA Panorama that tells what "in reality" is written about us abroad?
          Are you suggesting to bend in the other direction now? Polish it with a law on the inadmissibility of revising the results of the Great Patriotic War. The result will be exactly what the department of comrade Epishev got, a bronzed idol that began to crumble into pieces as soon as the bonds began to unbend in the mid-80s and a handful of city lunatics began to poke facts at it.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Critical thinking has finally awakened among the people.

          😂"Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok" "There will be no increase in the retirement age" "There will be no war" "There will be no mobilization" "There are no casualties in the armed forces" "Russia is here forever" "They played with grenades in the cabin of the plane" The people may have woken up, but the results are not yet visible, well, except for the march of prisoners on Moscow.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          I suggest you come to terms with this.

          So what are the options? They will say we will build socialism, they will change their minds and go work for the capitalists, they will change their minds again and start building national patriotism (and the same people will be talking about it). We are such a people, with critical thinking.
          1. +2
            22 June 2025 02: 09
            Ooooh...how did that touch you, huh..))
          2. +3
            22 June 2025 09: 03
            Quote: Skif3216
            Has this been written about in serious foreign sources?

            No, they talked about this in the Russian Federation, according to Solzhenitsyn and Co.
            Quote: Skif3216
            Are you now suggesting that we bend in the other direction?

            I suggest that we realistically assess the German losses in WWII. Why are you trying to present this as "bending in the other direction" - that's a question for you, not me.
            Quote: Skif3216
            Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok" "There will be no increase in the retirement age" "There will be no war"

            Firstly, yes, I didn't write it directly, but it was implied that critical thinking has awakened in relation to the issues of the Great Patriotic War. Secondly, critical thinking has awakened in relation to our government as well - even in the Great Patriotic War it is clear how many people distrust it. Thirdly, let's not change the subject. Otherwise, you will write that critical thinking has awakened, that everyone voted for Putin, I will answer that the elections are a fiction and we will go very far from the topic of the Great Patriotic War.
            Quote: Skif3216
            So what are the options? They will say we will build socialism.

            You probably didn't live through this, but in the late USSR there was a strong disappointment in both socialism and the CPSU. Actually, that's why the bulk of the population took the transition to capitalism very calmly
            1. -3
              22 June 2025 09: 36
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              I propose to realistically assess the losses of the Germans in WWII.

              Do you really think that at this political moment, in the conditions of "geopolitical confrontation with the united West" someone will evaluate anything realistically? It will turn out exactly the same as the GPU did in the 60s.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              critical thinking has awakened in relation to the issues of the Great Patriotic War

              Who? People from 18 to 40 mostly don't care, for them it's like analyzing the Battle of Borodino (who won and who got the battlefield), they have other concerns. The small layer of people over 50 who are still fighting that war? It's unlikely, it's been a matter of faith for a long time and no one is going to change their opinion, any document will be called a fake by both sides (liberals or propagandists). For children at school it will be as the Ministry of Education says, regardless of what happened there, they have to take an exam.
              And yes, critical thinking should be in everything, and not just on specific issues, otherwise it’s a fiction.
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              You probably didn’t live through this, but in the late USSR there was a strong disappointment in both socialism and the CPSU.

              I caught it, I no longer had any charm, it was the mid-70s, but I remember the faces of my father and grandfather when it turned out once again that the party had lied to them.
              1. 0
                1 July 2025 18: 18
                Quote: Skif3216
                Do you really think that at this political moment, in the conditions of a “geopolitical confrontation with the united West,” anyone will evaluate anything realistically?

                I will. And a bunch of other people interested in this issue. What does the "political moment" have to do with it? We are not talking about officialdom
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. -1
                  1 July 2025 18: 44
                  And a bunch of other people

                  Under the article about our submarine heroes and Norwegian fishermen there are 222 comments, 12 of which are weighted, half of them are ours, the rest are "you're all lying" "but they have it" "it serves them right" "don't prove it" this is by the way about critical thinking that has awakened.
                  interested in this issue

                  Thousands of disputes, hundreds of pages of text, and everyone will remain with their own. Opponents lie and forge documents.
                  What does the "political moment" have to do with it?

                  Pumping society with propaganda, year after year, for many years in a row. No matter how smart you are, it will start to affect you and under this sauce you will start to look at the numbers.
                  We are not talking about officialdom.

                  How many years do we have left, 10-15 years? And then they will think as it is written in the Unified State Exam, until the pendulum swings in the other direction again, when the archives are opened.
        2. -1
          1 July 2025 15: 25
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Just 10 years ago, the respectable public was happily eating up the 50 million irretrievable losses of the Red Army and the 3,6 million killed and missing heroic Aryans.

          In 2015, the Russian Ministry of Defense announced the following data: irretrievable military losses - almost 12 million people, total human losses of the country (USSR) - military personnel and civilians - 26,6 million people
    2. +6
      21 June 2025 13: 56
      Good afternoon!
      Why argue so much?

      The format of the publication is not strictly scientific, but also journalistic - that is, a genre that allows for a bit of expressiveness, expressions, so to speak, of the author's pathos. However, when I inserted these words into the text, I did not realize their swearing and that they would be perceived this way - standing out sharply, and even distracting attention from the meaning of the article. I would edit the publication, if the rules allow it, but, in my opinion, I found a few expressive words. The repeated definition of "cheating" is quite objective, only one expression remains in the text, which is really overly harsh.
      1. +5
        21 June 2025 14: 06
        Dear Yaroslav, I completely agree with you that the format of articles on VO does not prohibit expression. But for me personally, as a reader, there was too much expression, it distracted me from the topic of the article and slightly spoiled the overall positive background from reading it.
        Earlier, about 12-17 years ago, I myself was very active on the Internet on the topic of your article - I tried to debunk the myths about German losses. To the best of my modest abilities, of course, my main focus is the navy. And, in addition, I analyzed the delusions of our authors, the same Solonin. In general, I tried to be the voice of truth in the streams of lies. But then in the mass consciousness there was a turn in the perception of the exploits of our ancestors, which I am incredibly happy about - and I left this topic.
        But it's great that other authors like you don't leave it. And my criticism is strictly constructive - I just want your already very worthy works to become even better.
        And you, of course, are free not to listen to me - you are the author, you have the right
    3. +1
      21 June 2025 17: 46
      There are two sides to this. Firstly, the Germans quote Hillebrandt himself in a very distorted way, and the author points this out. Very often, the data on losses, which Hillebrandt himself calls incomplete, are presented by modern historians as an axiom that cannot be increased by even one person. This is simply cheap lies and manipulation. Secondly, Hillebrandt's book is a thorough study, not a primary source. The very fact that the authors rely (often for convenience) only on this source already causes, well, at the very least, skepticism and bewilderment. The problem is that our arguments are called unreliable, and their arguments are often presented as authoritative and axioms, the 2nd standards in research. For example, there was recently a scandal about Timin's study on our aviation, where, relying exclusively on Hillebrandt, he counted losses of 1 to 2.
    4. -1
      30 June 2025 13: 51
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      If the figures cited by Müller-Hillebrand were correct, then obviously the Germans would not have needed any Volkssturm in 1944-45 - they would have had more than enough young and "in their prime" men to staff their troops.

      There are never enough troops. Especially compared to the size of the Soviet army. It was the Fuhrer who had the idea of ​​a total war, "after us, even the deluge."
      To determine the losses it is enough to know the population before and after the war. It is possible to roughly estimate.
  10. +3
    21 June 2025 10: 54
    Brown shadows in Polesie. Belarus 1941-1945
    Romanko Oleg Valentinovich

    POWER STRUCTURES OF THE OCCUPATION REGIME

    Having analyzed the system of maintaining public order and its armed forces on the territory of Belarus, it can be said that during the entire period of occupation their steady growth was observed. Thus, if in 1941-1942 their number was approximately 160 thousand people, then in the spring of 1944 it more than doubled.

    https://military.wikireading.ru/77693
  11. -7
    21 June 2025 11: 22
    The official figures for losses are quite real. The Soviet troops suffered their main losses when breaking through the line of defense, and the Germans - when retreating. In the 80s, my class and I went to the sites of military actions in the Surazh and Gorodok districts of the Vitebsk region, there was a mass grave of 1500-2500 Soviet soldiers near each village. That is, a maximum of a German battalion killed 3-5 times more of ours than its own number, and perhaps some remnants of this battalion were able to retreat.
    1. -8
      21 June 2025 11: 43
      Quote: Melior
      The official figures for losses are quite real. The Soviet troops suffered their main losses when breaking through the line of defense, and the Germans - when retreating. In the 80s, my class and I went to the sites of military actions in the Surazh and Gorodok districts of the Vitebsk region, there was a mass grave of 1500-2500 Soviet soldiers near each village. That is, a maximum of a German battalion killed 3-5 times more of ours than its own number, and perhaps some remnants of this battalion were able to retreat.

      In my comment I mentioned the documentary film "Thank You, Soldier". There, the surviving veterans of the 2nd Guards MCP recall a battle when they had to engage in hand-to-hand combat with the retreating Germans, who were covered by civilians during the breakthrough, so the losses were high.
      1. -5
        21 June 2025 11: 51
        This happened too. Nevertheless, the Soviet troops suffered their main losses precisely when breaking through the German defense.
  12. +2
    21 June 2025 11: 27
    ,
    Wikipedia has an article on the First Jassy-Kishinev Operation. In Soviet historiography, these battles of April-June 1944 in the Romanian direction were not singled out as a separate battle

    because there was no such thing - there were the Odessa, Botoşani operations, etc.
  13. +3
    21 June 2025 12: 53
    Thanks to the author for the excellent material.
    Recently, the grandchildren of Hitler and Goebbels from Germany have become more active and are generously paying for false materials about the Great Patriotic War. It is time to begin exposing the traitors who have occupied the Internet. This is, of course, Tactician Pedia, as well as so-called historians, such as Isaev.
    1. +3
      21 June 2025 13: 56
      Quote: Dozorny - severa
      also so-called historians, like Isaev.

      What's wrong with Isaev? He may be wrong about something, but in reality, he became that turning point, before which society sprinkled ashes on its heads on the topic of the Great Patriotic War and enthusiastically watched "great films about the great war", and after which it gradually began to remove tons of noodles from its ears
      1. +4
        21 June 2025 14: 23
        Modern "KinAProm" is a separate topic.
        Especially films and TV series about the Great Patriotic War!
        1. +5
          21 June 2025 14: 42
          Quote: hohol95
          Especially films and TV series about the Great Patriotic War!

          I completely agree. BUT! And here a certain reversal occurred.
          "28 Panfilov's Men" - I give Shaloppe a standing ovation. To film a battle picture (with historical accuracy of equipment, uniforms, etc.) on a budget smaller than that of another idiot from the "Yellow Tree" series... Yes, in theory you can criticize something, the actors may not be very good here and there, but - I don't want to. I don't want to at all. But I really want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for an excellent film. Because despite all its imperfections, the film still touches the soul.
          "Podolsk Cadets". Do whatever you want with me, but for me this film firmly stands next to "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" and "Hot Snow".
          And I also took my youngest to see "Blood Type" at the beginning of June. He's 11, so the tragedy of the children whose blood the Nazis pumped out for their wounded is very... age-appropriate. And - the film is very good. Yes, it's not "Only Old Men Are Going to Battle", but... in some places I actually had tears in my eyes.
          If you say that both "Panfilov's men" and "cadets" are not the merit of the state, but the work of enthusiasts - I will completely agree with you. But earlier such initiatives had no chance of being filmed - Barin-Mikhalkov would have nipped it in the bud, but now... Now such cinema has become possible.
          And thank God.
          1. +6
            21 June 2025 15: 29
            And yet, “the stigma was removed with the support of the Russian Ministry of Culture” means that the money went down the drain!
            And the films you listed didn’t have this “stigma”, it seems...
            I haven't seen "Blood Type". I'll try to download it for my daughter.
            I haven't seen the latest film adaptation of "Not Listed in the Sraskas" either.
            I can’t say anything about “Marin-Boyarin”, but he probably acted in the style of “Prima Donna of the Russian Stage” Pugacheva.
            Some singers complained about pressure from this ancient singer licked by the authorities!
            1. +2
              21 June 2025 21: 38
              Quote: hohol95
              And yet, “the stigma was removed with the support of the Russian Ministry of Culture” means that the money went down the drain!

              Maybe. I don't watch stuff like that:)))))
              Quote: hohol95
              I haven't seen "Blood Type". I'll try to download it for my daughter.

              It's worth it. Yes, the film is not a masterpiece for all times... But you can't demand a masterpiece from every film. This is exactly what you expect from modern cinema - a solid, high-quality film.
              Quote: hohol95
              I can’t say anything about “Marin-Boyarin”, but he probably acted in the style of “Prima Donna of the Russian Stage” Pugacheva.

              You are absolutely right
              1. -1
                28 June 2025 19: 01
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Quote: hohol95
                And yet, “the stigma was removed with the support of the Russian Ministry of Culture” means that the money went down the drain!

                Maybe. I don't watch stuff like that:)))))
                Quote: hohol95
                I haven't seen "Blood Type". I'll try to download it for my daughter.

                It's worth it. Yes, the film is not a masterpiece for all times... But you can't demand a masterpiece from every film. This is exactly what you expect from modern cinema - a solid, high-quality film.
                Quote: hohol95
                I can’t say anything about “Marin-Boyarin”, but he probably acted in the style of “Prima Donna of the Russian Stage” Pugacheva.

                You are absolutely right

                You can try watching foreign films - Stalingrad, Our Mothers, Our Fathers
  14. +2
    21 June 2025 13: 38
    Why go far? At the beginning of the SVO, the number of Russian army personnel was 1150, and as a result, how many took part in the beginning of the operation.
  15. +1
    21 June 2025 17: 29
    But the Wehrmacht, in addition to combat units, also included various rear-echelon troops, making up approximately 40% of its total strength.

    Regarding the situation that developed in the center group in the rear, it is important to understand that numerous units of all sorts of Hiwis, collaborators, police and others were created, which reduced the need to keep troops in the rear, and it seems to me that 40% is an inflated figure for the rear of this particular group. I believe that the ratio was more in favor of the front-line personnel. I mean that the share of "pure" Wehrmacht there was more than 60%. In addition, some of the rear units were directly subordinate to the front as reserves and were called in as needed. My grandfather took part in Bagration and said that the density of Germans on that section of the front was very high and when the Red Army was advancing, the Germans actually ended up in captivity and encirclement in crowds of thousands. In addition, the Germans suffered heavy losses in a number of attempts to break out of encirclement and from the bombing of roads during the retreat, and these losses certainly could not have been objectively reflected in their reports.
  16. 0
    21 June 2025 18: 39
    Dear Author!
    Is there disagreement between Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic historians regarding British or American casualties in battles with the Teutons during World War II?
    1. +2
      21 June 2025 21: 02
      I wasn't interested in this topic. But I think there are some disagreements on various operations - the Germans could have underestimated their losses there, while the Anglo-Saxons could have overestimated them
  17. +1
    21 June 2025 21: 53
    A very good analytical article. Respect to the author. Regarding the selective calculation of losses - even Napoleon, who lost his entire army in the campaign against Russia, reported in Paris only about his French, absolutely not counting the various Poles and other riff-raff who fought for him.
  18. -1
    22 June 2025 20: 32
    The trouble is that many materials on the Great Patriotic War in Russia are still classified and inaccessible to the public. History does not like being shoved into dusty storerooms and thus takes revenge.
  19. 0
    25 June 2025 08: 51
    Quote: Konnick
    Or maybe the fact that against the 60 Luftwaffe fighters that remained after almost all German aviation, covering the Central Army Group, was relocated to France after June 6, and Stalin collected 6000 of our aircraft from several fronts?


    It was not relocated entirely to France, no need to tell fairy tales. The Germans expected an offensive further south, through Ukraine, and they transferred their IA there. That is, they mirrored the mistake of the Soviet generals, who believed that the Germans would deliver the main blow through Ukraine in 1941.
    When the Germans realized their mistake, they strengthened the aviation of the Center Group, so that the Soviet Air Force still had to fight with more solid forces than the "60 fighters".
  20. -1
    27 June 2025 15: 53
    Quote: The same Lech
    I realized long ago that modern German historians can lie worse than when they go fishing.
    There is a certain Hans-Ulrich Rudel... so the Germans attribute 512 destroyed Russian tanks to him based only on his testimony... smile He probably shot them down with machine gun bursts at random...a storyteller.
    I don't trust the Germans in this matter at all.

    His story of how he set fire to half a dozen IS-2s in one go is especially touching, despite the fact that the 37-mm cannon of the Ju.87R with the ballistics of an anti-aircraft gun did not penetrate either the side or the rear 90 mm armor of the IS at all.
    1. -1
      3 July 2025 21: 48
      And he couldn't hit the side or the stern, he dived from above, and there is 30 mm armor on the IS 2. I agree 100% about his additions
  21. -1
    27 June 2025 16: 28
    Wehrmacht philists will, after all, blab with a straight face that the Germans in the "cauldrons" near Bobruisk, Vitebsk, eastern Minsk and Brest meticulously counted every single corpse and sent information to Berlin by pigeon post.
    And, naturally, when outside the cauldrons the German troops rolled along forest roads to the West, then there too, after each battle, they sent emissaries to our rear to count the corpses and register them by name.
    And the Germans' numbers were divided into the following categories:
    - total, how many personnel are listed in the division;
    - combat - this is the number of infantry and artillery regiments, reconnaissance/fusilier and engineer battalions;
    - the number of units directly involved in combat - these are infantry battalions, regimental artillery, fire divisions of an artillery regiment, artillery reconnaissance units, and a reconnaissance/fusilier battalion.
    Most often, German falsifying historians take into account only combat numbers, "modestly" excluding units and parts of combat and rear support from the division level and above. For example, communication units and subdivisions were excluded, pontoon and bridge units, etc.
    Sometimes, in order to extol the “valor” of the Wehrmacht, the numbers of only the units directly engaged in combat were given.
    Also, the losses of "Hiwi" were not taken into account, and in the division of 1944, out of 12600 personnel, 2005 were "Hiwi". At the same time, only about 300 of them belonged to the rear service, and about 1700 were part of the rifle companies (company wagon train, ammunition carriers), regimental supply columns, were horse-drawn gun and cart teams, carriers and ammunition in artillery crews. But the losses of "Hiwi" were not included in the Wehrmacht's losses.
    And in general, the Germans had a complex and confusing system of personnel records: Imperial Germans (within the 1937 borders) separately, Sudeten Germans and Austrians - separately, Alsatians, Lorrainers, Volksdeutsche - separately, Poles of the Poznan and Pomeranian regions and chezi "Protector a Bohemia and Moravia" - separately. And the SS also had its own records, and the Volkssturm its own, the paramilitary formations "Organization Todt", "Speer Transport Corps", "National Socialist Transport Corps" - also separately.
    That's why no one was able to figure it out.
    True, the Military Burial Registration Service of the FRG announced by the early 1980s that in Eastern Europe (outside the 1937 borders of Germany) the burial places of 3260000 German soldiers and officers had been established, not counting those who died in captivity. But these are buried. And how many corpses of missing Nazi soldiers were left to decompose in the forests and gullies, who were not buried, but our people simply raked the remains into a pit and covered them with earth.
    And also the losses in the battles of 1945 in East Prussia, Silesia, in the Eastern Prussia. And the "Halb pocket" when the Germans were eager to surrender to the Western Allies, and everything that could was shooting at them. When some ML-20s for the first time in the war "on grapeshot" fired shrapnel shots.
    IMHO, such a picture with the blurring of losses on the Eastern Front was deliberate, in order to give propaganda the opportunity to explain the main losses of the Germans by the air strikes of the Allies and the "atrocities" of the Soviet soldiers.
    1. -1
      30 June 2025 22: 17
      Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
      Also, the losses of the "Hiwi" were not taken into account, and in the division of 1944, out of 12600 personnel, 2005 were "Hiwi".

      Naturally, they were not taken into account. You do not take into account the losses of the Poles and the French from Normandy-Niemen for the Soviet losses. Or do you also take into account the Vlasovites? Or maybe they are included in the off-statistics for the losses of the USSR?
  22. -2
    1 July 2025 17: 59
    Quote from Kartograph
    Quote: Tank DestroyerSU-100
    Also, the losses of the "Hiwi" were not taken into account, and in the division of 1944, out of 12600 personnel, 2005 were "Hiwi".

    Naturally, they were not taken into account. You do not take into account the losses of the Poles and the French from Normandy-Niemen for the Soviet losses. Or do you also take into account the Vlasovites? Or maybe they are included in the off-statistics for the losses of the USSR?

    The losses of the Polish Army were listed in a separate column and were included in the total losses of the fronts, as were the losses of the Normandy-Niemen; this post of yours is out of place.