Military Review

11 April 1857 Propulsion Alexander II approved the national emblem of Russia - the double-headed eagle

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During the reign of Emperor Alexander II in 1855-1857. Russia underwent a serious heraldic reform. According to his order, the Armorial Office was established especially for the work on the coats of arms in the Department of Heralds of the Senate, which was headed by Baron Boris Kene. He developed a whole system of Russian state emblems - Large, Medium and Small. In his work, Ken was guided by the generally accepted norms of European monarchist heraldry. The national emblem was brought in line with the international rules of heraldry. Also somewhat changed the pattern of the eagle and St. George.


11 April 1857, the sovereign Alexander II approved the modified coat of arms of the Russian state - the double-headed eagle. Under Alexander Nikolayevich, the whole set of state emblems was approved - Big, Medium and Small, which were to symbolize the unity and power of the Russian Empire. These characters, without any changes existed until 1917 year. It should be noted that the emblem of the Russian state was modified under many rulers, any changes were made to it under Ivan Vasilyevich, Mikhail Fedorovich, Peter I, Paul I Petrovich, Alexander I, Nikolay I and Alexander III.

11 April 1857 Propulsion Alexander II approved the national emblem of Russia - the double-headed eagle

Small state emblem, 1857.

Double-headed eagle - the legacy of ancestors

The national emblem and color must always and invariably remain intact, as they bear a symbolic and historical value. It must be remembered that state symbols (the figurative expression of statehood, nation, its ideology) occupy an extremely important place in the life of the people, although this is usually invisible in everyday life.

One of the historical emblems of Russia-Russia is the two-headed eagle. In its antiquity and depth of meaning, it is second only to the rider striking a dragon serpent, which in a later, already Christian understanding, is known as George the Victorious. The rider symbolizes the thunder (Perun, Indra, Torah, etc.), which strikes the serpent (universal evil), it is one of the most important myths of the Indo-European language family.

The double-headed eagle (bird) is noted in a wide variety of cultures. In particular, in Sumerian and Indian mythologies. But it prevails in Indo-European cultures. It must be said that the many-headedness of various animals, mythical creatures is one of the features of Slavic mythology.

Especially often in antiquity there is a double-headed eagle in Asia Minor and the Balkan Peninsula. In Asia Minor, it is found since the times of the mighty power of 2 in the millennium BC. er - Hittite kingdom. Its founders were Indo-Europeans, whose ancestral home supposedly was the Balkan Peninsula. The Hittite Empire successfully competed with Egypt. The Hittites were among the first to master the secret smelting of iron, controlled all of Asia Minor and the straits from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea. The Hittite coat of arms was a two-headed eagle, which was preserved not only on standards, stone bas-reliefs, but also seals.


The symbol of the Hittite kingdom is a two-headed eagle. Reconstruction of reliefs from Hattusy.

Russian heraldists noted that the image of the two-headed eagle was known in ancient Pteria (city in Medes). It dates back to the turn of the century 7-6 centuries. BC er According to Xenophon, the Persians at about the same time served as an eagle symbol of supreme power. The symbol of the double-headed eagle was used by the Persian shahs from the Sassanid dynasty. In ancient times, the eagle and the lion were considered a symbol of royalty. In ancient Rome, Roman commanders had images of an eagle on their rods, it was a symbol of primacy over the troops. Later, the eagle became an exclusively imperial symbol, symbolizing supreme power. Western heraldists of the 17 century told the legend how the double-headed eagle became the state emblem of Rome. At the entrance of Julius Caesar to Rome, an eagle flew in the air above him, which attacked two kites, killed them, and threw them at the feet of the great commander. Surprised, Julius considered this to be a sign that predicts his victory and ordered to perpetuate it, adding a second head to the Roman eagle.

However, most likely, the appearance of the second head should be attributed to a later time, when the empire was divided into two parts - east and west. The body of the eagle was one, which meant common interests and origins, but with two heads facing west and east. Such an eagle was adopted as the emblem of the empire by Constantine the Great (ca. 272 - 337), or from other sources, Justinian I (483 - 565). Apparently, much later, the same symbolic significance was attached to the double-headed eagle of Austria-Hungary.

But the double-headed eagle was not an official symbol of the Byzantine Empire, as many believe. It was the emblem of the Paleologue dynasty, which ruled 1261 - 1453, and not the whole Byzantine state. After the start of the Crusades, the double-headed eagle appears in Western European heraldry. Thus, it is marked on the coins of Ludwig of Bavaria and the emblems of the burgraves of Würzburg and the Counts of Savoy. The German King and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa (1122 - 1190) was the first to use the black double-headed eagle in his coat of arms. Frederick saw this symbol in Byzantium. Until 1180, the two-headed eagle was not marked on state seals, coins and regalia, as well as on the emperor's personal belongings. Earlier, the eagle was the symbol of the German rulers, but since the emperor Friedrich Barbarossa, both symbols were depicted on the coat of arms of the Holy Roman Empire. Only from the 15 century did the double-headed eagle become the state emblem of the Holy Roman Empire. In 19 - the beginning of 20 centuries, the double-headed eagle was the emblem of Austria-Hungary. In addition, in Serbia, the double-headed eagle became the emblem of the Nemanjic family. It was the ruling dynasty in 12-14 centuries.


The emblem of the Palaeologus.

In Russia, the double-headed eagle was noted in the 13 century in the Chernigov principality, and in the 15 century - in the Tver and Moscow principalities. Had some walking double-headed eagle and the Golden Horde. Some researchers even claim that the double-headed eagle was the State Emblem of the Horde. But most historians do not support this version.

The seal of Ivan III Vasilyevich, which was inherited from Vasily II Vasilyevich, depicted a lion who tormented a snake (the lion was a symbol of the Vladimir principality). At the end of the 15th century, two new symbols appeared: the rider (rider), who was used in the Old Russian state and the two-headed eagle. The formal reason for using this symbol was the fact that Ivan III's wife was Sophia Paleolog, for whom the eagle was a generic sign. The emblem of the Paleologov was a black silhouette woven by black silk on a golden field. He was deprived of plastic and internal design, in fact, being a flat ornamental emblem.

According to another version, the double-headed eagle was known in Russia before the arrival of the Byzantine princess. For example, the “Chronicle of the Cathedral of Constance” by Ulrich von Riczenthal from 1416, the coat of arms of Russia with the image of a two-headed eagle was placed. The double-headed eagle was not a symbol of the Byzantine Empire, and the great Russian princes accepted it to emphasize their equality with the Western European monarchs, to be equal to the German emperor.

Sovereign Ivan III took the appearance of this emblem in the Russian kingdom very seriously. For the contemporaries of the Grand Duke, kinship between the Byzantine imperial dynasty and the house of Rurik was an act of great significance. In fact, Russia contested the rights of the strongest state of Western Europe - the Holy Roman Empire to this symbol. Moscow grand dukes began to rely successors of the Roman and Byzantine emperors. From the first half of the 16 century, the elder Filofei will formulate the concept “Moscow is the third Rome”. Ivan III the Great accepted this emblem not only as a dynastic sign of his wife, but as a heraldic symbol of the Russian state in the future. The first reliable use of the double-headed eagle as a state emblem symbol dates back to 1497, when the grand duke's certificate of land possession of princes was stamped on red wax. The front and back sides of the print carried images of a double-headed eagle and a rider hitting a serpent. At the same time, images of a gilded double-headed eagle appeared on the red field on the walls of the Faceted Chamber in the Kremlin.


Seal of Ivan III, 1497 year.

The Byzantine eagle on Russian soil acquired new features, "Russified". In Russia, the previously simplified, lifeless graphic silhouette, filled with flesh, comes to life, ready to fly. This is a powerful, menacing bird. The eagle's breast covers the oldest, ancient Russian symbol - the Heavenly Warrior, the Winner of evil. The eagle was depicted in gold on a red field.

During the reign of Ivan IV, the double-headed eagle finally became the emblem of Russia. First, the emblem of the Russian kingdom was supplemented with a unicorn, and then a horse-serpent rider. Before the reign of Mikhail Romanov, there were two crowns above the heads of the eagle. Between them depicted a Russian eight-pointed cross - a symbol of Orthodoxy. Only in the large seal of Boris Godunov, the three heads of the eagle appear for the first time, they designated the Kazan, Astrakhan and Siberian kingdoms. Finally, the third crown appeared in 1625 year, it was introduced instead of the cross. Three crowns from this time meant the Holy Trinity, at a later time, from the end of 19 centuries began to be considered a symbol of the trinity of Eastern Slavs - Great Russians, Little Russians and Belarusians. Since the reign of Alexei Mikhailovich, the Russian eagle almost always holds the scepter and orb in his hands.

From the 15th to the mid-17th century, the Russian eagle was always depicted with wings lowered, which was determined by the Eastern heraldic tradition. Only on some seals of False Dmitry, apparently under Western influence, are the wings of an eagle raised. In addition, on one of the seals of False Dmitry I, the serpent-rider was turned to the right according to the Western European heraldic tradition.


The coat of arms from the seal of Alexei Mikhailovich (1667 g.).

During the reign of Tsar Peter Alekseevich, with the approval of the Order of Sts. Andrew the First-Called, the Moscow coat of arms is almost always surrounded by a chain of the Order. The double-headed eagle itself. Under the influence of Western traditions, it becomes black. The rider from 1699 began to be officially called St. George. Under Empress Anna Ioannovna, a specially invited engraver, I. K. Gedlinger, prepared the State Seal for 1727, which will survive until the 1740 of the year with minor changes.

Emperor Pavel Petrovich, who became the grandmaster of the Order of Malta, in 1799, will introduce the Maltese cross on the chest into the Russian coat of arms, on which the Moscow coat of arms will be placed. If it is, an attempt will be made to develop and introduce the full coat of arms of the Russian Empire. By the year 1800 will be prepared a complex coat of arms, which will be 43 coat of arms. But before the death of Paul this emblem will not have time to take.


Coat of arms, approved by Paul I (1799 — 1801).

It must be said that before the reign of Alexander III, the Russian double-headed eagle was never exactly established by law. Therefore, the form, details, attributes and character changed in various reigns very easily and often significantly. So on the coins of the 18 century, apparently under the influence of Peter's antipathy towards Moscow, the eagle was depicted without the coat of arms of the old capital. The scepter and orb sometimes were replaced by a laurel branch, a sword and other emblems. By the end of the reign of Alexander I, the eagles were given not a heraldic, but a completely arbitrary form, which they borrowed in France. It was first placed on silverware made for the imperial house in France. This two-headed eagle had widely spread wings and held in its paws thunder arrows, a rod and a torch (in the right), a laurel crown (in the left) interlaced with ribbons. The dynastic St. Andrew’s chain disappeared, a heart-shaped, pointed shield with the Moscow coat of arms appeared on the eagle’s chest.

Under Nicholas I, there were two types of coat of arms. The simplified coat of arms had only basic elements. On the second on the wings title emblems: Kazan, Astrakhan, Siberian (on the right), Polish, Tauride and Finnish (on the left). The emblem itself is extremely monumental, harmoniously included in the new architectural style, known as the “Nikolaev Empire”. Wings like spread over Russia, as if protecting her. Heads are formidable and powerful.

Under the emperor Alexander II, a heraldic reform was carried out, its main author was Baron Koenet. There is a crown over the Moscow coat of arms, with St.. George is depicted in the image of a medieval knight in silver armor. The shape of an eagle is heraldic. On the small state emblem also appeared shields with the emblems of the territories within the Russian state. 11 April 1857 took a whole set of coats of arms - Large, Medium and Small State Emblems and other, only one hundred and ten drawings.

In the 1892 year, during the reign of Alexander III, an exact description of the state emblem appears in the Code of Laws of the Russian Empire. The St. Andrew chain will return to the eagle's chest. Black feathers will thicken the chest, necks and widely spread wings. Paws carry scepter and orb. The beaks of the eagles are ominously opened and the tongues are prostrated. The fiery gaze of fiery eyes faces east and west. The view of the eagle was solemn, impressive and formidable. On the wings were placed the arms. On the right: Kazan, Polish, Chersonesos of the Tauride kingdoms, united coat of arms of Kiev, Vladimir and Novgorod princedoms. On the left wing: the Astrakhan, Siberian, Georgian kingdoms, the Grand Duchy of Finland.

As a national symbol of the Russian people and Russian statehood, the two-headed eagle passed through three dynasties of the Russian autocrats — Rurikovich, Godunov and Romanov — without losing the significance of the supreme state emblem. The two-headed eagle also survived during the Provisional Government, when the swastika competed with it - a sign of the sun and a symbol of eternity. In 1993, the double-headed eagle returned to the coat of arms of the Russian state. Now, the double-headed eagle is a symbol of eternity of the Russian statehood, its continuity with the great empires of antiquity. Two heads of an eagle remind of the historical need for Russia-Russia to defend the frontiers in the West and the East. Three crowns over their heads, fastened with a single ribbon, symbolize the unity of the three parts of Russia (Russian civilization) - Great Russia, Little Russia and White Russia. Scepter and orb indicate the inviolability of the state foundations of our country. The eagle's chest, protected by a shield depicting a serpent horseman, points to the historical mission of the Russian people on Earth — the fight against evil in all its manifestations. Departure from this program leads to confusion and the collapse of the Russian statehood. Russia-Russia is the defender of the Truth on Earth.


Modern Russian coat of arms.
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  1. Iraclius
    Iraclius April 11 2013 08: 57 New
    +8
    The material is very informative, thanks. Heraldry is a very complex science, without half a liter you can not figure it out. It would be nice to describe in detail the Coat of Arms of the Russian Empire - what do all these shields and other little things-dryuchki mean. What can I say. Ancient coat of arms, ancient symbol, continuity. But from a biological point of view, the double-headed eagle is a non-viable chimera, a mutant. I like this State Emblem:
    1. Corsair
      Corsair April 11 2013 09: 57 New
      +4
      The coat of arms is really remarkable, with its content perfectly reflecting the essence of the State, but ALASstate that sozh request lenie no longer exists .....
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith April 11 2013 11: 28 New
        +5
        Quote: Corsair
        A state that unfortunately no longer exists ....

        But for future generations the WORLD emblem is ready, this state has not gone away, it lives in the people’s heads and heads.
    2. AntonR7
      AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 13 New
      -3
      And where is biology ?! The coat of arms is a symbol and a much more significant double-headed eagle is a symbol of the fact that we look at both the entire empire under control than the stupid hammer and sickle invented by the robbers by the Bolsheviks and introducing into the consciousness not greatness, but collective farm thinking.
    3. viach
      viach April 11 2013 20: 51 New
      -1
      Indeed, heraldry is a complex science. The tape is always a symbol of the snake, the hammer and sickle are the instrument of destruction and the fighting tools of the ancient blogs - predators, the star is a pentagram, a symbol of dark forces ... In a word, where to go if someone likes.
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets April 11 2013 09: 12 New
    +5
    Thanks to the author, such an article must be inserted into the school history textbook.
  3. Nesvet Nezar
    Nesvet Nezar April 11 2013 09: 16 New
    +4
    What should I do when I love both double-headed and Soviet coats of arms equally?
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 09: 21 New
      14
      Quote: Nesarya Nesvet
      How to be

      Like this:

      laughing
      1. Trapperxnumx
        Trapperxnumx April 11 2013 11: 53 New
        +2
        And where did you divide the globe? Put the globe back in the background !!!
        1. Leisure
          Leisure April 11 2013 12: 57 New
          +1
          Little bird in the paws of the globe to put.
      2. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 16 New
        -1
        Oh no just not that
      3. Manzevityj
        Manzevityj April 11 2013 18: 49 New
        0
        or maybe someone else has ideas how the modern coat of arms of Russia should look like ??
        because the Coat of Arms of the USSR, at that time was very correct and modern ...
        Now the Row of the Russian Federation is to give centuries-old traditions ...
        In my opinion, the Coat of Arms should have mandatory features - it is a two-headed eagle, and a shield with George, but in other attributes it should be modern, should reflect the achievement of the state and be a symbol of aspirations for the future.

        Moreover, the motto "God bless us" was written on the large coat of arms of the Russian Empire
        The emblem of the USSR also had the motto "Workers of all countries, unite!"
        and now there’s nothing (((, but have ideas ??

        I especially ask the experts in heraldry to answer what the Coat of Arms should look like and what might be the motto.
        1. Bosk
          Bosk April 11 2013 19: 39 New
          +1
          "Liberals by the forest!" - I think a good motto ...
        2. Trapperxnumx
          Trapperxnumx April 12 2013 09: 16 New
          +1
          Peder @ sti will not work !!!
          1. Manzevityj
            Manzevityj April 12 2013 15: 37 New
            0
            "justice, equality, unity"
            under such a motto, here I would strive for such goals.
        3. Manzevityj
          Manzevityj April 12 2013 15: 35 New
          0
          "justice, equality, unity"
          here under such a motto, here to such goals I would strive
        4. Manzevityj
          Manzevityj April 12 2013 15: 38 New
          0
          "justice, equality, unity"
          under such a motto, here I would strive for such goals.
  4. biglow
    biglow April 11 2013 10: 09 New
    +1
    The Pre-revolutionary Emblem of the Empire is the most correct, let's hope that the time comes when it will be returned
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 11: 46 New
      0
      The coat of arms from the seal of Alexei Mikhailovich looks like a plucked chicken, forgive me generously. And the eagle of the 1857 sample threw out its tongues, like a stranglehold.
      Well them in the bath. negative
      1. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 17 New
        +1
        I do not agree, well, paints and drawing devices in the 17th century were bad and the 1857 sample is incomparable and majestic
        1. Manzevityj
          Manzevityj April 11 2013 19: 40 New
          +1
          The coat of arms of the Russian Empire really looks very magnificent.
          Starting from the reign of Peter the Great, it became not gold, but black, and it was introduced in the 30s of the 18th century, and the reason for this was the Europeanization of Russia, and the arrival of the Romanov Germans.
          Black eagle on a yellow background, this is not native Russian colors - these are the colors of the Roman (German) Empire.
        2. Manzevityj
          Manzevityj April 11 2013 19: 42 New
          -1
          but the flag of the Holy Roman Empire ...
          So, even though the Coat of Arms of the Russian Empire is good, it’s not its own, but torn off ...
          I am against the exact repetition of the colors of the coat of arms of the Russian Empire
  5. Soldier
    Soldier April 11 2013 10: 32 New
    +4
    And yet. The double-headed eagle is a monarch's coat of arms. And the Soviet coat of arms (with a hammer and sickle, a symbol of the union of workers and peasants around the world) is PEOPLE. I like him more.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 11: 44 New
      +3
      Armeec, you spoke out splendidly! good
      Not without reason after the revolution, hated eagles were picked from everywhere where they were installed. This characterizes the attitude of ordinary people with the state.
      The double-headed eagle is a symbol of the ruling elite, but not of the people. And by its nature, the eagle is a predator, vigilantly looking for prey from a height of flight. While the sickle and hammer symbolize a positive and creative, but not a predatory beginning.
      A globe with a sickle and a hammer imposed, as it is now fashionable to say, the creative geopolitical ambitions of a great country - 1 / 6 land!
      1. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 22 New
        +1
        People will blame any emblem when they are told that these or those people are to blame for human troubles and that symbolism that exists at the time of the revolution is indicative in 1991 too. so do not defame the sovereign emblem of Russia.
    2. AntonR7
      AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 20 New
      0
      If you think about and understand the Russian monarchy from other monarchies, the double-headed coat of arms is just a national coat of arms, a special monarchy in Russia was not for nothing said the tsar-father because he was a father to the people, a special relationship than in other absolute monarchies. But the Soviet emblem only inspires us as collective farmers and oppresses.
  6. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny April 11 2013 10: 40 New
    -1
    After the Hittites left the historical scene, the two-headed eagle did not appear anywhere for almost two thousand years. He appeared again only in the Golden Horde, to all Russians of that time this symbol was well known as a sign from the Horde coins.
    This symbol was brought to Byzantium by the Oghuz Turks from Central Asia, who invaded the Byzantine Empire with these banners and defeated it. Mikhail Paleolog was forced to take into account the steppe-wolves-nolance, he gave his daughter in marriage to one of the steppe khans, was friends not only with the invading Oguz Turks, but also with the Turks of the Golden Horde. In a word, his policy bore a pronounced "oriental vector." He was so loyal to the steppes that even their double-headed symbol made him his personal coat of arms.
    But the two-headed bird came to Russia not from the Paleologists, but from the desire of Tver and Moscow to secure the "Horde legacy". When the Horde collapsed, Tver instantly began to print its own money and in order to convince the population that they were issuing money legitimately, the Tver prince placed on one of the sides - a two-headed eagle, which until that moment was a sign of the "right" state Horde coins, which were in circulation in Russia.
    Ivan Vasilyevich, do not be, also began to print his money, and also decided to put a double-headed eagle on his coin, as if contesting the Tverites in the right to issue "right" legal money. As a result, as we know, Ivan the Terrible won this fight and really became the legitimate heir to the Horde. Both literally and figuratively.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 11: 38 New
      +1
      For the first time I hear about the Central Asian origin of the double-headed eagle. Where does the information come from?
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      He was so loyal to the steppes that even their double-headed symbol made him his personal coat of arms.

      Yeah. Got it in the end. And they lost the empire, and betrayed the faith. And the coat of arms is still alive.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 11 2013 13: 13 New
        -3
        1) The double-headed was not only on the coins of Dzhanibek, as is often mentioned, it was also on the coins of Batu, Berke, Tokhta, Uzbek, Nogai and other less well-known Genghis Khans and Khagans. Some medieval Turkic chronicles ("Daftar Chyngyz nama") say that the symbol of the Genghis Khan family was not just an eagle (gyrfalcon, in other sources), but a two-headed eagle. And it was he who was on the flag of the Seljuks (the Oghuz Turks who ruled Byzantium, a relative of today's Turkmens).
        The two-headed eagle is found among the Turks in many places - the Danube Bulgarians during the reign of Omurtag Khan (814-831), in the art of the Pechenegs (7th-9th centuries), and even even earlier Huns.

        In Muslim art, the image of the double-headed eagle was first noted in the Cordoba Caliphate (Andalusia) in the 11-12 centuries. on the tissues. The Baghdad caliphate has used the double-headed eagle on its coins since 1157, the Mamluk sultans of Egypt, al-Zahir Beibars (I will return to him in the second part of the answer) and al-Said Barak Khan - in the 13th century, among the Hulaguids (Genghisides) in Persia. Moreover, I recall that these Muslim states were usually controlled by the Turkic steppes or simply experienced the strongest Turkic cultural influence. Arab passionarity crashed to the limits of the Turkic world by the 8th century, and the Turks began to dominate both in politics and in the culture and science of Muslim countries, and instead converted to Islam, which became more and more popular among the steppes who professed originally Turkic Tengrianism.

        2) Byzantium as early as 1204 was destroyed by the crusaders as a state. The revival began only in 1260 with the help of the Horde Ulus Jochi - the great Khan Guyuk "invited priests from Sham (Syria), Rum (Byzantium), Osov and Russia and proclaimed a program pleasing to the Orthodox - a campaign against Catholic Europe." True Guyuk died very quickly at the very beginning of the campaign. After that, the Horde scored on the idea of ​​gouging the Catholic world. Although, after a successful Western European "walk", when the Horde jokingly scattered all European armies, while chasing the rebellious khan of one of the Kipchak uluses - Kotyan (the very one that caused the Russian princes to climb Kalka), they could easily do this.
        After the restoration of Byzantium as a satellite of the Golden Horde (the second half of the XIV century), a double-headed eagle appears at Mikhail Paleolog. Tolerant steppes actually included Byzantium in their world, allowing them to “catch their breath” from the Catholics. The Paleologists were under the “roof” of the Horde. True, in the end, the Byzantines gradually converted to Islam. Moreover, by and large it’s not forcible, and the character of the locals was too “compromising”. The Bishop of Byzantium was constantly fulfilling the instructions of the Golden Horde Khan, Berke (who, by the way, first paid serious attention to Islam after reconciliation with another steppe immigrant - Mameluke Beibars, who ruled Egypt; and the successor of Khan Berke - Khan Uzbek strengthened relations with immigrants from the Steppe the ruling Muslim countries of Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Arabia, Persia, and ultimately made Islam the state religion for the Turks; to the Horde non-Turks, Slavs, including, this order did not apply). Well, the Romans of Byzantium themselves decided to take over and be Muslim. As a result, all these Greeks, Armenians, Kurds turned in language and religion into the current Turks. It was more profitable for them. The Horde did not forcibly convert anyone to any religion or impose their language. Moreover, on the contrary, they were punished for such misconduct.
        1. de klermon
          de klermon April 11 2013 20: 39 New
          -1
          Sorry, but nonsense ... Greeks and Armenians turned into Turks ?! Yes, you try it the shadows of Constantine IX, Patriarch Gregory V Ethnomartiras, the victims of the massacre in Smyrna, the victims of the Armenian Genocide to tell !!!
          Speaking and writing as "Marek Rozny" is a crime against conscience!

          Say, Marek, do you think that the Holocaust wasn’t either? Perhaps you believe that the Jews in the camps, as Hitler said, were re-educated and saved from the anger of the crowd?

          If not, then HANDS Away from the tragedy of the Anatolian Orthodox Greeks and Armenians !!! M-Marek ...
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 12 2013 02: 25 New
            +2
            Well, what else can an Armenian write when he sees the word "Turk" ...

            you live in your past, which was not there, and in myths that no one else believes in you, "eternal sacrifice."

            ps Do you really think that the bulk of the Turks are genetically related to the Turks? everything is written on them and on your face. Seljuks - yes, they were Türks, but they were dissolved in the mass of Greeks, Armenians and Kurds because of their small numbers. they only conquered you, and you yourself switched to the Turkic language and the Muslim religion of your own free will. the steppe inhabitants never forced anyone to change religion and language.
          2. ayyildiz
            ayyildiz April 12 2013 02: 33 New
            +1
            1912-1923 years died 4.500.000 Turks who killed them?
        2. Ingvald_Bueny
          Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 20: 57 New
          -1
          The next time, immediately give a link to the "source" of information. It cannot be called otherwise than “empty words not confirmed facts”, especially since the conclusions about the origin of the Russian coat of arms are clearly not yours.
    2. AntonR7
      AntonR7 April 12 2013 14: 27 New
      0
      I have not seen such a distortion of historical facts. Are you a liar or an ignoramus.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 14 New
        +2
        Ingvald and Anton, what to do with bricks? Just read any source on Horde coins, etc. Well, or just at least learn which of the Paleologists was the first to take this emblem and in what relations it was with respect to the Seljuks, in which the double-headed eagle was on the flag. You still say that the hammer and sickle on the flag of the Tajik SSR has nothing to do with the Soviet symbols, they say, a simple coincidence. And what? You really think that the two-headed Horde has nothing to do with the vassal Mikhail Paleolog and the cunning Tver prince, who immediately after the collapse of the Horde began to print the SAME symbol that was before on the STATE money of the common Horde state. Accident and coincidence. Just not to see the "Asian" roots. It is easier for you to believe in the connection of the Russian biceps with unknown Hittites than to admit that your first tsars tried to rule their lands, relying on the Horde symbols known to the then Russians.
        If Nazarbayev declares that he is the only successor to the rulers of the USSR and the National Bank of Kazakhstan begins to print coins with the emblem of the USSR, will you also begin to hysteria that the drawing on the coins is a coincidence?
        Well, if I'm a liar and an ignoramus, educate me. Tell me where I am wrong. What problems?
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 21: 38 New
          0
          Call this "source". All your other judgments are just empty words.
          P / S "sickle and hammer" of the Tajik SSR was inherited from the RSFSR with the separation of the Tajik SSR from its composition. By your logic, if you wear jeans and a fringed jacket, then you are a US citizen, since this is an American national costume.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 45 New
            +2
            Ingwald, at least read about the Horde coins. More than one book is desirable. In Russian. Look at the flags of the Turkic states of the Middle Ages, you will find the Seljuk flag with a two-headed eagle.
            When the Tver prince began to print his coins with a two-headed head, those Russian people still lived who used the Horde money with the same symbol. And they could not perceive the two-headed eagle on Tver coins otherwise than as a symbol of state money.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 21: 48 New
              0
              The dispute is about nothing, you have no facts, except for "empty words".
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 57 New
                +2
                Ingvald, just download ANY books about Horde coins from the Internet and just look at what flags the Turks used in the Middle Ages (especially the Seljuks). Delov for two minutes.
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 22: 04 New
                  0
                  Just the "source" from which you took your "thoughts" call.

                  P / S: “One of the possible explanations for the entry of Indo-European double-headedness into Muslim culture can be the custom of medieval nomads to put on their banners the symbols of enemies defeated by them. So, on the banners of the Seljuk Turks there was a dragon, a lion and a two-headed eagle in sign of victories over the Chinese, Persians and Byzantines.It is very characteristic that this series of symbols represents spiritual rather than state emblems.Therefore, a single double-headed eagle already in the XII - XIII centuries was familiar to the Seljuks as personifications renie "wrong" Byzantium. "
    3. Ingvald_Bueny
      Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 21: 23 New
      0
      Your texts on the principle of "wishful thinking." Well, for example, the "double-headed eagle" is known as the patrimonial emblem of the Paleologists (originating from Asia Minor) even before the Emperor Michael, where does the Oghuz Turks and the "steppes"? On the banners, seals, books and labels of the Golden Horde, the “double-headed eagle” does not occur, there are not a large number of Uzbek and Janibek coins dating back to the 13th-14th centuries, that is, after the appearance of the eagle in the Eastern Roman Empire. Everything else you write is also distorted.
      P / S: "The first early medieval images of the two-headed bird of prey in Asia Minor belong to the turn of the X-XI centuries." "Within the common visual tradition common to all Iranian-speaking peoples, the raven (falcon) Varagn appears to be holding a hare, a snake, a man in its clutches. that the Sasanian Varagn and the two-headed Byzantine eagle of the X-XI centuries are found in a similar set of animals accompanying on the pictorial plane. In this series, in addition to the crow or eagle, lions and griffins were depicted. About Varangian-Slavic symbols - "In the early Middle Ages, solitary images of the two-headed bird were found in the retinue decorative art of the Baltic subregion. They represent the sacrificed, vertically cut bird at the last stage of the cult action. It consisted in the fact that the spread bird was attached to a pillar or wall "This image became a symbol of the power of the prince, who sacrificed to the gods for the prosperity of his squad."
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 40 New
        +2
        And what Paleologist was the first to accept the double-headed eagle, if not Michael ??? What is the name?

        On the flags of the Horde this symbol does not occur. It is found on coins. And since the time of Batu Sain Khan (Batu in Russian). On the flags this symbol was among the Seljuks (the same Türks). And give an example, when the Paleologists suddenly met the two-headed two-headed earlier than the Turks)))))

        And then infa about Asia Minor and the Iranians, if we are talking about the Turks? And give an example where the two-headed bird was a state symbol (on flags, emblems, coins) of the mentioned peoples, except for the Turks by that time.
        1. Ingvald_Bueny
          Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 21: 56 New
          0
          What does the first mean, it is a dynastic emblem, the Paleologian dynasty is rooted in Asia Minor.
          Coins with a "two-headed eagle" of the times of Batu - do not exist.
          As for the Seljuk Sultanate, it existed on the territory of Asia Minor (part of the Hittite Kingdom, then the Eastern Roman Empire) from 1077 to 1307, during which period of the existence of this sultonate did the "double-headed eagle" appear among them as a symbol on the flags and what symbol is it?
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 12 2013 22: 02 New
            +1
            Just answer the question - which of the Paleologists was the first to accept the double-headed eagle as a family coat of arms? You will find the answer in Google in three seconds.

            Regarding the second part of your message - who are the Seljuks and where did they come to Byzantium? You’ll google the answer in three seconds as well.

            As for what it means - the question is complicated, because There are several interpretations. However, most of the symbols of the Middle Ages do not have a clear history. Even the "George the Victorious" is unclear where, where he lived, and whom he soaked with a spear. There are only a few competing versions. If you know 100% Old about George, then I will be surprised.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 22: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Just answer the question - which of the Paleologists was the first to accept the double-headed eagle as a family coat of arms? You will find the answer in Google in three seconds.

              What are you all with "Google", your thoughts if not then why not join the discussion.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Regarding the second part of your message - who are the Seljuks and where did they come to Byzantium? You’ll google the answer in three seconds as well.

              What difference does it come from if the "double-headed eagle" appeared in them only after they began to fight the Roman Empire.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              As for what it means - the question is complicated, because There are several interpretations. However, most of the symbols of the Middle Ages do not have a clear history. Even the "George the Victorious" is unclear where, where he lived, and whom he soaked with a spear. There are only a few competing versions. If you know 100% Old about George, then I will be surprised.

              Another thing is surprising, you can’t even explain the meaning of the “double-headed eagle” as a symbol, you do not have reliable information about its appearance, but you continue to uphold the point of view of an idea that does not exist.
  7. OlegYugan
    OlegYugan April 11 2013 10: 46 New
    +1
    Thanks to the author for the article: Heraldry is a conservative science.
  8. 755962
    755962 April 11 2013 11: 41 New
    +5
    I consider keeping a column on heraldry on the site more than relevant. This is our story with you, except that only professionals and specialists have a more or less real idea. It is very useful to know about the coats of arms of cities of their origin and development. My son has a wonderful book Anatoly Leikin's "Journey to Gardarika", there are stories and legends from the history of Russian cities. I read and wondered .. he doesn’t say such things in history books .. But it’s a pity. We must know where the heraldry of the cities of Russia originates from.
  9. Vtel
    Vtel April 11 2013 11: 42 New
    +3
    It's time kosher pentagrams from the Kremlin to remove and equip Orlov, or we are not descendants of the Orlov.
    God with us!
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 11: 52 New
      +8
      Why didn’t the stars please you? Shy of something in your story? With these stars, our country has accomplished so many heroic deeds that there aren’t enough numbers to list. fool
      1. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 12 2013 14: 32 New
        +2
        Of course, we accomplished feats with the stars, but historical justice requires the return of the eagles, I remember we made even more with them - they built a great empire, which by the way was inherited by the stars)))
    2. biglow
      biglow April 11 2013 12: 00 New
      +4
      Quote: Vtel
      It's time kosher pentagrams from the Kremlin to remove and equip Orlov, or we are not descendants of the Orlov.
      God with us!

      a star is the same ancient symbol as the solar flag. A pentogram is a symbol of 5 elements with a single center. And the fact that it was under the red star that the Soviet Union could achieve so much during such a short historical period means that the symbol was used correctly.
    3. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 11 2013 15: 05 New
      +3
      Well, on the avatar you have a red star ...
  10. TiT79
    TiT79 April 11 2013 11: 46 New
    -2
    And what does the “TWO-EYES” of the eagle mean, after all, is this symbolism? Has anyone seen him? And how did he get into heraldry?
    Apart from the mutant, nothing comes to mind. Or this duplicity of "convicted" of power.
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 11: 49 New
      -1
      Very good question. As far as I know, double-headedness symbolizes power over Europe and Asia, and the roots of this symbol must be sought in Byzantium.
      At the same time, yes, duplicity of power and Byzantine cunning in politics comes to mind. Those. personally, my associations are more negative.
      1. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 34 New
        +2
        such associations, of course, excuse me from banal ignorance. study history and its symbols
    2. AntonR7
      AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 32 New
      +1
      Mutation eh respected shameful history of the country does not know and its symbols. Why is the double-headed eagle and its significance ?! As you know, this symbol came to us from Byzantium as a successor of traditions and communications. Ivan 3 was married to the niece of the last emperor of Byzantium, so when the latter fell, Russia rightly began to consider itself a successor of the Orthodox tradition and faith, it was not for nothing that Moscow was later called the third Rome. Thus, the coat of arms became Russian. But it meant that Byzantium was huge by the standards of that time, and therefore one eagle's head looked west to the other east, thereby making it clear that the whole power was under the close attention of the state, and yet the eagle is a symbol of power, a bird of prey it would be a country under reliable protection from external enemies and internal ones too.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny April 11 2013 17: 35 New
        +1
        I remind you that the double-headed eagle was not the coat of arms of Byzantium. This is the family coat of arms of the Paleologists. The first to take it was Mikhail Paleolog, who was not an independent ruler, but in fact a vassal of the Seljuks and the Golden Horde, where the double-headed eagle was one of the main state symbols. So your message
        Quote: AntonR7
        But it meant that Byzantium was huge by the standards of that time, and therefore one eagle's head looked west to the other east, thereby making it clear that the whole power was under the close attention of the state, and yet the eagle is a symbol of power, a bird of prey it would be a country under reliable protection from external enemies and internal ones too.
        garbage is complete. Tell Mikhail Paleolog that his power is so powerful. He would not have appreciated the "joke of humor" and would have said something sullenly impartial in Turkic with an incorrigible Greek accent.
        1. AntonR7
          AntonR7 April 12 2013 14: 46 New
          0
          You say a joke of humor ?! Any emblem of the ruling dynasty, as a rule, became the emblem of the state, so I think it’s quite possible that Michael would have told you something disgusting especially after he knew that you ranked him as a vassal of the Turks. The double-headed eagle in many countries was a symbol, so the example of the Golden Horde is unsuccessful and in general I think you're a Rusufob Marek .... from America.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 55 New
            +1
            Quote: AntonR7
            Any emblem of the ruling dynasty, as a rule, became the emblem of the state

            And then the coat of arms of the Paleologists did not become the coat of arms of Byzantium?

            Quote: AntonR7
            Michael said something nasty especially after he found out that you ranked him as a vassal of the Turks

            Kanesh, not a vassal, gave his two daughters for the steppes (for Abak and Nogai). Apparently the Horde were his vassals, if his daughters were kissed.

            Quote: AntonR7
            The double-headed eagle in many states was a symbol

            Examples in the studio. Who used the two-headed as a state symbol to the steppe? (The Hittites, which even before the birth of Christ did not count from the historical scene).


            Quote: AntonR7
            and in general I think you are a Rusufob marek erysipelas from America.

            .......... laughing Of me, Russophobe or Americanophile, like a pomegranate from you)))) And in general I am in Kazakhstan. You are even led into the technical problems of Beeline, which the bourgeois IPM sometimes gives me automatically. Write to me in PM, I will give you a Kazakh phone number - call, chat)))) What is my Russophobia? Is I laughing at Russians who don’t really know their history? Then, also write me in Kazakhophobia, because I scoff at the Kazakhs, who instead of history believe in all hoo-patriotic garbage))))
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 22: 13 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And then the coat of arms of the Paleologists did not become the coat of arms of Byzantium?

              Why didn’t he become the emblem of the Golden Horde?

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Kanesh, not a vassal, gave his two daughters for the steppes (for Abak and Nogai). Apparently the Horde were his vassals, if his daughters were kissed.

              What did the "Hordes" give to their sisters and daughters for the princes of Russia during the "Mongol-Horde yoke". Apparently the Russians were their vassals, since their daughters were "kissed." The word is so vile to "peck".

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Examples in the studio. Who used the two-headed as a state symbol to the steppe? (The Hittites, which even before the birth of Christ did not count from the historical scene).

              What kind of “steppes” and did they use the “double-headed eagle”? Examples in the "studio".

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              What is my Russophobia? Is I laughing at Russians who don’t really know their history? Then, also write me in Kazakhophobia, because I scoff at the Kazakhs, who instead of history believe in all hoo-patriotic garbage))))

              You are a strange “Kazakh”, with a Polish name and under the flag of the United States, which you occasionally change to the IP address of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny April 12 2013 22: 35 New
                +2
                1) The Turks never had a single coat of arms. It just wasn’t. In Russia, too, there was never a uniform coat of arms - each Romanov printed his money with his own coat of arms. Just as a symbol, most khans had a two-headed coin on coins. Exactly the same as later with the Romanovs.
                2) The steppes had MUTUAL dynastic marriages with Russians - Polovtsy became the wives of Russian princes, Russian princesses married Polovtsian khans. Since the time of Genghisides, the situation has changed - Genghis women did not marry Russian princes. The status was not the same with them. Do not confuse.
                3) Already tired of writing the same thing to you - look at the Horde coins, Seljuk flags. Then stop asking a hundred times the same question in different ways.
                4) Regarding my personality, it is strange to hear reproaches from the person with the nickname Ingvald_Bueni ... Also not a very Russian name.
                And Marek Rosny was called by my former Polish girlfriend. My name is Marat, it was easier for her to call me Marek. And so attached to me. And “Rosny” in Polish means “different”, she called it that, noting my changeability in my mood. Also attached to the environment of my friends.
                But I can’t change the flag myself. This Beeline assigns such IP addresses every time. All claims to them. Jaeger siz kazaksha soilesessiz, magan zhazyniz - men sizge zhauap beremin. Maine - kazakpyn. Maine - Kazakstanyn azamatymyn. By phone, the lichkada is bemin. Amerikida Men Yeshkashan Bolmady.
                1. Ingvald_Bueny
                  Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 22: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  The Turks never had a single coat of arms. It just wasn’t. In Russia, too, there was never a uniform coat of arms - each Romanov printed his money with his own coat of arms. Just as a symbol, most khans had a two-headed coin on coins. Exactly the same as later with the Romanovs.

                  What does it mean in Russia then was not? This is when? For example: the emblem of the Princes of Old Rus was the family coat of arms of the princes of Rurikovich. As for the "two-headed" eagle in Russia, an article about this popularly explains, if you have not read it, these are your problems.

                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Already tired of writing the same thing to you - look at the Horde coins, Seljuk flags. Then stop asking a hundred times the same question in different ways.

                  So show them already.

        2. Ingvald_Bueny
          Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 20: 46 New
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          I remind you that the double-headed eagle was not the coat of arms of Byzantium. This is the family coat of arms of the Paleologists. The first to take it was Mikhail Paleolog, who was not an independent ruler, but in fact a vassal of the Seljuks and the Golden Horde, where the double-headed eagle was one of the main state symbols. So your message

          On the "banners of the Golden Horde", the Horde seals, and the Horde coins, the "double-headed eagle" does not occur, therefore, it was not used as a state symbol.
          And what does one of the main mean, were there several of them? If so, then this suggests that a single "Horde state" that you supposedly existed simply did not exist.

          P / S Michael 8 The paleologist was not a vassal of the Seljuks, he hired them for military service, this is a frequent practice of the Roman authorities.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny April 12 2013 21: 34 New
            +3
            1) The double-headed eagle was on the flag of the Seljuks, not the Golden Horde. Do not distort and do not compose.
            2) On the Horde coins, a double-headed eagle is found. To help you any book on Horde coins in Russian. Despite the fact that everyone is trying to “cover up” this moment, but through gritted teeth this fact is recognized.
            3) The fact that there was no single Horde state - in general, crap froze. You still say that because the coat of arms of the Moldavian SSR was different from the coat of arms of the USSR, which means that there was no single Soviet state. And if this is not enough for you, then compare the coins of the Russian tsars, there are different coats of arms everywhere - so each Romanov had a different country ???
            4) About Michael the 8th. He first, in 1265, gave his daughter Maria out for Genghiside - the ruler of the state Abul Khulaguids (having concluded an alliance agreement with him). And when the Khan of the Golden Horde Berke (who was an enemy with his relative Abak) organized a campaign in Byzantium in the same 1265, then the frightened Mikhail Paleolog in 1266 gave his other daughter Efrosinya to Khan Nogai (controlled by Khan Berke) and enlisted the support of these steppes. Thanks to this alliance, he used Horde aid for campaigns in Byzantium in 1273 and 1279. And also defeated his opponents in Thessaly in 1282. What kind of independent ruler is he, if at all did he win his Byzantium with the help of humiliating marriages of his daughters with the Horde warlords? Even Khan Berke disdained his daughters, having ceded this right to his subordinate - Nogai. Good morning ... From him there is such an independent Roman emperor as an astronaut from Lenin.
            1. Ingvald_Bueny
              Ingvald_Bueny April 12 2013 22: 27 New
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              The double-headed eagle was on the flag of the Seljuks, not the Golden Horde. Do not distort and do not compose.

              As a result of the capture by the Seljuk Turks of Asia Minor, which was part of the Roman Empire, the "Roman Sultonate" arose.
              “One of the possible explanations for the entry of Indo-European double-headedness into Muslim culture is the custom of medieval nomads to place symbols of their defeated enemies on their banners. For example, a dragon, a lion and a two-headed eagle flashed on the banners of the Seljuk Turks as a sign of victories over the Chinese, Persians and Byzantines, respectively. It is very characteristic that this series of symbols represents spiritual rather than state emblems.Therefore, already in the XII - XIII centuries, a single two-headed eagle was familiar to the Seljuks as a personifier of the "wrong" Byzantium. "

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              On Horde coins, a double-headed eagle is found. To help you any book on Horde coins in Russian. Despite the fact that everyone is trying to “cover up” this moment, but through gritted teeth this fact is recognized.

              Coins from the time of the reign of Janibek and Uzbek meet something similar to the "two-headed Hittite-Roman eagle."

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              The fact that there was no single Horde state - in general, crap froze. You still say that because the coat of arms of the Moldavian SSR was different from the coat of arms of the USSR, which means that there was no single Soviet state. And if this is not enough for you, then compare the coins of the Russian tsars, there are different coats of arms everywhere - so each Romanov had a different country ???

              Do not you "wishful thinking."

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              About Michael the 8th. He first, in 1265, gave his daughter Maria out for Genghiside - the ruler of the state Abul Khulaguids (having concluded an alliance agreement with him). And when the Khan of the Golden Horde Berke (who was an enemy with his relative Abak) organized a campaign in Byzantium in the same 1265, the frightened Mikhail Paleolog in 1266 gave his other daughter Efrosinya for Khan Nogai (controlled by Khan Berke) and enlisted the support of these steppes. Thanks to this alliance, he used Horde aid for campaigns in Byzantium in 1273 and 1279. And also defeated his opponents in Thessaly in 1282. What kind of independent ruler is he, if at all did he win his Byzantium with the help of humiliating marriages of his daughters with the Horde warlords? Even Khan Berke disdained his daughters, having ceded this right to his subordinate - Nogai. Good morning ... From him there is such an independent Roman emperor as an astronaut from Lenin.

              No comment.
  11. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil April 11 2013 11: 49 New
    +1
    The current power in our country has nothing to do with either the Great Russian Empire or the USSR, the continuity of power was violated at least twice (?), And how can I explain the adoption of the two-headed eagle as a coat of arms in the current Russian Federation? , probably some who are trying to smear themselves under the authority of the Russian Empire, to portray themselves as a “Tsar-Batyushka”, which from the outside looks frankly funny and sad when you see how our “driver-hand” has been crushed since then.
    PS By the way, I never heard of a king crying in public.
    1. AntonR7
      AntonR7 April 11 2013 15: 35 New
      +1
      no matter what the sign, whether the empire of the USSR or the Russian Federation was Ros is the same country, or do you think, for example, that the history of France begins with the 5th republic i.e. 20th century?
  12. Lexagun
    Lexagun April 11 2013 11: 51 New
    +4
    Complete splendor :)) A specific article. Continuous "giving out" wishful thinking. Particularly pleased passage: "Three crowns over their heads, held together by a single ribbon, symbolize the unity of the three parts of Russia (Russian civilization) - Great Russia, Lesser Russia and White Russia.", the fact is that the placement of the crown on the coat of arms is connected with other provisions of heraldry, in particular, indicates ownership of the crown land, which gives the right to the crown - that is, the title. So, none of the lands listed by the author is crown. as part of Muscovy, in the 16th century they became: the Astrakhan kingdom, the Kazan kingdom, the Siberian kingdom.The union of three crowns under one authority (trekunor) gives the right to the title of Tsar of Kings (Shakhin Shah, emperor), naturally with a suitable origin. it's a romance symbol, hat you are Getae-Goths (The most famous work on the Goths is the work of Jordan "Getik" Well, where are the Rus?), although this does not fit into the traditional ideas of chronology, we swallow the Gothic style combined with the fact that the Goths would they have disappeared from world history for 500-600 years before the Gothic style in architecture? An eagle as an emblem for the ruling dynasty at that level of family ties between the reigning houses in Europe is quite normal for the German (German, Gothic) by origin of the king (and the whole dynasty )

    And there are several flaws of this kind, as with crowns. continue to admire wink
    1. Iraclius
      Iraclius April 11 2013 12: 02 New
      +1
      Lexagun, with all due respect - everything mixed up in the Oblonsky house - and the Hittites, and the Getae, and the Goths, and the Jordan, and the Persian titles. And criticism of the coat of arms. Or articles?
      Crowns, by the way, have nothing to do with the former khanates. One can not recall the explanation of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich - nothing more than a beautiful legend.
      “The double-headed eagle is the emblem of the sovereign of the Great Sovereign, Tsar and Grand Duke Alexei Mikhailovich of all the Great and Lesser and White of Russia autocrat, His Imperial Majesty of the Russian reign, on which three crowns are depicted, the three great Kazan, Astrakhan, Siberian glorious kingdoms. On the Persians is the image of the heir; in the scepter of scepter and apple, and reveals the gracious Sovereign, His Royal Majesty the Autocrat and Possessor. ”

      But nine shields exactly designate nine former khanates or great principalities that became part of the empire. hi
      Two crowned heads of an eagle symbolize the unity of spiritual and secular power, the power of the patriarch and the tsar over Russian land. Upstairs in the center is the third crown, which marks the power of God over Russia. One head of the eagle is turned to the West, and the other to the East, symbolizing the middle position of Russia and their coming unification under the rule of the Russian emperor.

      1. Lexagun
        Lexagun April 11 2013 13: 49 New
        +2
        Indeed, everything mixed up in the house of Oblonsky, wink which, in fact, I point out.

        The third crown was fixed above the head of the eagle in 1625, just around the time of the final consolidation and recognition of the Siberian kingdom for Russia - all will be called Khanates later), therefore, the question Which of the "Rus" :)) became the third Muscovy by 1625 ? (We will not even stutter about the origin and dating of these terms Velikoros, Maloros, and Belarus, although it immediately makes sense to be limited to the times of Catherine as if the second.). And A.M. was only listed in the project in 1625, however, if it’s all about the “trackrunor”, ​​then this would be like the first False Dmitry in 1604, though the true victorious George was looking the other way :))).
        As for the shields, you are certainly right, they just designate the smaller, less significant in terms of status of the land - the principalities, but the principalities are not crown lands and that is why they are displayed in the form of shields. Well, to confuse secular and spiritual symbolism (the crown is the symbol of God? !!) uh ... this is kind of incorrect, on the coat of arms this role is played by the cross both on crowns and on the power, however on the crowns the cross did not appear immediately and not simultaneously on all. And the place of the third crown was previously occupied by the eight-pointed Maltese cross (German ?, Gothic?), Approximately the same as in St. Peter in the Vatican :)))) Why don’t we think about this or that the eight-pointed cross rises to Astarte-Ishtar, it is also “cybele”.
        Random characters in heraldry do not exist.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets April 11 2013 14: 19 New
          +4
          Quote: Lexagun
          And the place of the third crown was previously occupied by the eight-pointed Maltese cross (German ?, Gothic?), Approximately the same as in St. Peter in the Vatican :)))) Why don’t we think about this or that the eight-pointed cross rises to Astarte-Ishtar, it is also “cybele”.

          Are you about Paul’s rule? Paul's love for the Maltese knights, Masonic lodges and other sectarian crap is well known.
          1. Lexagun
            Lexagun April 11 2013 15: 21 New
            +3
            The eight-pointed (non-Orthodox) cross above the eagle first appears in 1577 on the seal of Ivan the Terrible, instead of two small crowns (the status of the Siberian kingdom as a subordinate of Muscovy has not yet been fully determined) in 1589 it seems that it will be replaced by an eight-pointed but already Orthodox when the return of the two crowns, then at How False Dmitry 1 would be replaced by the third crown and the unicorn (with George) on the coat of arms will be turned in the opposite direction, but the trackrunor will be finally approved as I wrote earlier in 1625. The eight-pointed cross in the Maltese version will be returned to the already Russian coat of arms by Paul 1799 and again removed with a "bald dandy" after the murder of his father. The association of crowns on the coat of arms with the concepts of the unity of the great, small and white Russia is not possible in view of the two centuries-old time gap between the appearance of symbols on the coat of arms and the appearance of these concepts. And before the reforms of Nikon there was no holy trinity as a symbol of faith for the Orthodox, therefore ...?
            The unicorn ("Rider") with George will be replaced by a horse with George after Alexei Mikhailovich. Given that the unicorn is a tribal coat of arms, we can say that on A.M. the Romanov family stopped, in any case, the heraldry shows this (the Miloslavsky claimed it right away, they say the queen brought in the hem). And given the origin of the queen (from the Crimean Karaites), we can’t talk about the three hundred Romanov dynasty.
          2. Manzevityj
            Manzevityj April 11 2013 18: 16 New
            0
            The third place of the crown, the Maltese cross never took. Instead of the third crown there was an Orthodox cross (the Coat of Arms with the Middle State Seal (with a cross) of Tsar Fedor I Ivanovich, 1589), and the Maltese was on the chest.
            1. Lexagun
              Lexagun April 11 2013 18: 36 New
              0
              to manzevityj
              just in case, I’ll clarify, although I already described it
              since 1577, on a large (stamp) seal, an eight-pointed (non-Orthodox cross) instead of two crowns.
              from 1589, an eight-pointed Orthodox over two small crowns as approximately (incorrect figure of St. George the Victorious) in your drawing
              from 1799 until the death of Paul the first Maltese cross over two small crowns

              Is it not clear from the previous text?
              1. Manzevityj
                Manzevityj April 11 2013 19: 05 New
                0
                to Lexagun
                I have not found anywhere the coat of arms described by you under Paul I, on which the Maltese cross was located above two small crowns, if there is a picture, lay it out, please.
                What I found is a Maltese cross on the eagle’s chest ..
              2. Manzevityj
                Manzevityj April 11 2013 19: 08 New
                +1
                since 1577, on a large (stamp) seal, an eight-pointed (non-Orthodox cross) instead of two crowns.
                Here is the coat of arms of the Great State Seal of Tsar Ivan IV Vasilievich, 1577-1578.
                Why did you decide that he is not Orthodox?
                one crown on which is an eight-pointed cross.
              3. Lexagun
                Lexagun April 11 2013 19: 10 New
                0
                I apologize about the Maltese cross over the two crowns, the Maltese cross is still on the chest, This is the cross on the crown above: ((the false association worked.
      2. Lexagun
        Lexagun April 11 2013 16: 00 New
        0
        Uh ... a little bit about the "explanation" of Al. M. this explanation took place in 1667, it was not the tsar himself who gave it, but the head of the special "commission" created by him. If you gave it a need arose? After all, I remind you that there are no random symbols on the arms. But if this explanation is considered "legendary", then on what grounds then? Such an interpretation was not introduced from the flank of the bay, rather to consolidate territorial acquisitions. By the way, on the same basis, after a hundred and a half years, they will sing a song about the Great Russians, Little Russians and Belarusians.
      3. Lexagun
        Lexagun April 11 2013 16: 07 New
        +1
        A little bit about the "legendary explanation" Why did you decide that the results of the commission established by A.M. and voiced in 1667 are legendary ?. Or until this moment, everyone sculpted what he wanted on the coat of arms? The motive for creating a special heraldic “commission” was simple, the territorial acquisitions of Muscovy were fixed on the coat of arms (as early as 1625). If even in 1667 "explanations" were still required, it means that not all neighbors have reconciled with these acquisitions. The thesis of the Unity of Russian (Great Roses, Maloros and White Russia) civilization in one and a half hundred years will arise for the same reasons, they say "from time immemorial our".
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny April 11 2013 17: 40 New
          +2
          Lexagan, I take off my hat for such a deep knowledge of heraldry.
          1. Lexagun
            Lexagun April 11 2013 18: 54 New
            0
            Yes, it is not deep, it is forced wink
  13. Lexagun
    Lexagun April 11 2013 14: 26 New
    0
    The Maltese cross, instead of the third crown, was removed from the coat of arms about a couple of centuries before the reign of Paul the First.
  14. de klermon
    de klermon April 11 2013 20: 53 New
    +1
    It is absolutely true that the territorial and, therefore, titular acquisitions were fixed on the emblem of the Russian state! .. On this, I ask you to pay attention to the difference between the modern coat of arms of Russia and the coat of arms of 1892: did you notice the difference? Right! There were no acquisitions either in life or on the coat of arms ... The Slavs shook us, both in geopolitics and in heraldry! Yes, and who shod? Theorists like those who even claim here that the Greeks and Armenians turned into Turks (I won’t say what kind of Marek I mean)! ..
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny April 12 2013 22: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: de Klermon
      Shod us, brothers Slavs,

      You would decide whether you are an Armenian or a Slav. And now ask any Russian if he distinguishes a Turk from a Greek, Armenian, Kurd in appearance ... And will he distinguish a real Turk - Kazakh, Yakut, Bashkir, Kyrgyz, Tatar from Caucasian / Turk. You still say that 80 million Turkic wars invaded Byzantium, which are the current Turks. And all the Byzantines (Greeks / Armenians / Kurds / Jews) were allegedly cut out by the Turks. Why kill those who do not resist? Well, and with regard to Turkization by language and Muslimism, the Turks have nothing to do with it. It is the Byzantines and the Armenians themselves took the initiative. No Turk will ever think of “redoing” someone according to religion and language. What then, what today. We generally do not have this mentality. Absolutely. Who is guilty that even modern Tuev Armenians have a lot of names from Turkic words - Dzhigarkhan-yan, Mirzo-yan, Tariverdi-ev, Alikhan-yan, Janibek-yan, Shakhnazar-ov, Murad-yan, Sarukhan-ov, Kochar- Yang, Aslan-yan, Karabek-yan, etc. What? Türks came and forced Armenians to give Turkic names to children? It was very necessary.
  15. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 30 New
    0
    here is an option
  16. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 30 New
    +1
    other colors
  17. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 32 New
    +1
    I painted in 20 years, so I was carried away then I remember ...
  18. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 34 New
    0
    there were still options))) just a fantasy!
  19. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 36 New
    +3
    this option looks magnificent!
  20. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 39 New
    0
    Photoshop helped ...
  21. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 40 New
    0
    and these colors I personally like more
    1. staser
      staser April 12 2013 00: 01 New
      +3
      Yeah, in the blood of the imperial family there was most of all German and Austrian impurities - so they picked up the flag a mixture of the flags of Austria and Prussia, and the Russians take this flag as a national treasure.
      1. AntonR7
        AntonR7 April 12 2013 14: 50 New
        0
        and in what country did the dynasties not be related? so the dynasty did not become less Russian from impurities
        1. Manzevityj
          Manzevityj April 12 2013 15: 26 New
          +2
          The clan always followed the father, the eldest son continued the clan - the dynasty.
          the father of Peter III was Karl Friedrich, mother Anna Petrovna, the daughter of Peter I and Catherine I, who was German by birth.
          The wife of Peter III, was Catherine II, who was also German, their son Paul I, was married to Maria Feodorovna; before the transition to Orthodoxy - Sofia Maria Dorothea Augusta Louise of Württemberg (German: Sophia Marie Dorothea Augusta Luisa von Württemberg).
          their son Nicholas I, married to Alexandre Fyodorovna (née princess Frederic Louise Charlotte Wilhelmina of Prussia, German: Friederike Luise Charlotte Wilhelmine von Preußen, etc., etc.
          I would say that they have Romanov blood, but unfortunately, as an impurity.
          Of course, upbringing is an important matter, but here Paul I was certainly not a Russian at all ...

          just in case, I spread the Romanov family tree in good resolution.
  22. Nachkar237
    Nachkar237 April 11 2013 21: 42 New
    0
    here's another - different colors and immediately looks different
  23. YuDDP
    YuDDP April 11 2013 23: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    In some medieval Turkic chronicles ("Daftar Chyngyz name")

    It was you who turned down both about the Middle Ages and about the annals.
    "Daftar-i Chingiz Name" was written at the end of the XVII - XVIII century. "Daftar" was composed no earlier than the last quarter of the XVII century. The compilation of the manuscript was completed in 1732.
    Do not invent antiquities where they are not. Do not unreasonably go back centuries like traditional historians.
  24. giperion
    giperion April 12 2013 04: 32 New
    +1
    I know that they will
    1. Manzevityj
      Manzevityj April 12 2013 09: 39 New
      0
      if only not black, but gold, on a red background, and a red star with a gold border over their heads.
    2. Manzevityj
      Manzevityj April 12 2013 09: 53 New
      0
      something like that
  25. Manzevityj
    Manzevityj April 12 2013 10: 36 New
    0
    here is another option on this subject
  26. Manzevityj
    Manzevityj April 12 2013 11: 20 New
    0
    stumbled upon an interesting photo of 1905.
    emblem "two-headed imperial eagle" on the background of a five-pointed star
  27. Manzevityj
    Manzevityj April 12 2013 15: 38 New
    0
    "justice, equality, unity"
    under such a motto, here I would strive for such goals.