Military Review

Technology SU-35 will save China 10 years


Currently, Russia is actively negotiating with China to conclude a second agreement on the protection of intellectual property. Can the Canadian military magazine Chinese Defense Review ask the Canadian military magazine (probably Kanwa Defense Review - “VP”) wonders whether the new contract will protect the Su-35 fighter technology from illegal copying? Article from this magazine published today

The first agreement of this kind between Russia and China was signed at the end of 2008 of the year, but it did not prevent the emergence of Chinese versions of the Su-33 and Su-30MK2 (J-15 and J-16 respectively). China has already declared J-15 its own development with independent intellectual rights, the development of J-16 began after 2008 year.

It is possible that the glider Su-35 will appear on an improved version of the J-16. In 2005, China acquired the 24 Su-30MK2 fighter (it is known that the Su-35 framework agreement also called the number of 24 machines, initially Beijing planned to buy only a few units).

China believes that Russia once transferred intellectual rights to Su-27 (the beginning of 1990), and why shouldn’t the country have the right to create modifications based on it? According to some information, in the original contract there really were some “legal loopholes”, intellectual rights were discussed in an “informal setting”. If China considers the Su-35 to be the next version under the Su-27М index (this was the original index), then there will again be a debate about the intellectual property of this aircraft.

Without any doubt, and without the permission of Russia, China will use 117C engines to equip the promising J-20 fighter. Receiving TRDDF with controlled thrust and high thrust will allow to realize the “China dream” to give the J-20 the ability to fly at supersonic cruising speed and go to super maneuverability modes. The 117C technology can also be used on WS-10A engines of the J-11B and J-15 fighters, and the on-board Irbis-E radar with passive HEADLIGHTS will not be overlooked.

In general, if China gets to Su-35, its aircraft industry will save at least 10 years in developing new generation fighter aircraft, the Canadian magazine writes. The qualitative gap with the Russian Air Force will also be significantly reduced. Until 2015, the Russian Air Force will receive all X-NUMX Su-48C / BM fighters. The 35 technologies will significantly reduce the technological gap between the fifth-generation Russian fighter T-117 and the Chinese J-50. If new Russian engines arrive in China in the 20 year, it is quite possible that in 2016-2019 years, the J-2020 will go into service with the PLA Air Force (almost simultaneously with the arrival of the T-20 in the Russian Air Force).

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  1. rennim
    rennim April 10 2013 12: 12
    Design engineers work hard creating the intellectual property of Russia, and hucksters are handed out from left to right. They would have to force at least something to create material with their labor. At one time, Chubais sold the Yak-141 drawings. Now the United States has created its new interceptor on the work of our specialists ... It is disgusting from traitors and mediocrity.
    1. Vashestambid
      Vashestambid April 10 2013 13: 34
      I understand that they now have as many Su-35s as Russians !! fool

      Well, progress is evident, before everything was immediately sold to the Chinese, example they sold 15 divisions S-300PMU2, Russian 0. smile
      1. Jin
        Jin April 10 2013 13: 59
        Some kind of kabzdets !!! What a pancake agreement on the preservation of intellectual property ??? But you just can’t not sell? We will lose money, but how much we will win! As usual, eat a fish and sit on the throne! No, gentlemen hucksters, to a cunning * opa, always find a threaded bolt! sad And then some Chinese piece of paper will stop! These damn contracts and conventions included a cart and a small cart, so what? Who is following them? Rather, they are forced to observe the weak, those who can be dictated, and some, like amers, put a bolt on all these scribbles! I don’t think that the Chinese will also rush to strictly observe these conditions ... they will find a way to love all the stumbling blocks! Ha, just think, 10 years will save !!!! Is it a very generous gift for several billion? You can’t do this, in no case impossible! Well, then brains soar? Take and sell then all the documentation and secrets! Che roll something! I goof in this leaf, just goof am
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 April 10 2013 14: 59
          Okay, get upset! This is the Canadian press! This is their view and not the fact that accurate!

          Well, we can not do otherwise! We are the most cordial humane, etc.

          We all do harm to ourselves. And they tried differently, too, it doesn’t work out smoothly.
        2. Hysnik-Tsuzoy
          Hysnik-Tsuzoy April 10 2013 18: 11
          But you just can’t not sell?

          The chinas then, through third countries, will buy and then they will technically spioner, and at least some chance to get paid
        3. Reasonable, 2,3
          Reasonable, 2,3 April 11 2013 16: 49
          Do not yell like that. Compare some facts, and you will see that su 35 was specially created for export. A very good advertising company. I would not be surprised that the journalist of the article works for Irkut. And they will get new engines.
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg April 10 2013 14: 56
      It should be noted that even the Americans with their scientific potential took 20 years to create this famous interceptor, which is on fire rennim, according to the finished drawings, and which also does not fly.

      It will take the Chinese about 30-40 years to figure out what ideas are in the design. If the glider of the aircraft can be stupidly copied, then this will not work with the engine. By the same token, in 30 years, engines of the construction of 50 years ago will be unnecessary to anyone.

      For the 101st time I will repeat to grow my designers it is not enough just to copy other people's designs. So they made their j15 and j16, but what's the point? It still doesn’t move. The same with their copy of the IL76 - no engines.

      In general, the production, and most importantly the development of new jet engines, is an extremely difficult task. Only three countries in the world are capable of this. By the way, these countries have been building jet engines for over 60 years.

      Again, the minimum batch of 24 aircraft was not inadvertently agreed upon. In theory, they need to require 100% prepayment. Perhaps this is the only moment in Ktor possible scam from the Chinese.

      The note is alarmist. Avtryu study material and do not sow panic. hi
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 April 10 2013 15: 08
        Pancakes (planes) can be riveted, a fact, but will they worthy to fight? and stand - let’s stand.
    3. alex-defensor
      alex-defensor April 10 2013 16: 12
      The problem is more complicated, the key to solving it lies precisely in the phrase:
      In general, if China gets to the Su-35, its aircraft industry will save at least 10 years in developing a new generation of fighters, writes the Canadian magazine.

      In other words, if we do not sell it now, then in 10-12 years they will not even buy. But the price should be adequate so that it would be more profitable for China to buy from us (without spending 10-12 years on development, but spending 3-4 years or less on copying) and us, so as not to miss the opportunity to sell, and through 10-12 years we will have other engines.
      1. You Vlad
        You Vlad 3 August 2016 18: 34
        alex-defensor I agree with you, they are always one step behind copying! Copy this is not to invent or build your own scientific school!
    4. Aktino
      Aktino April 10 2013 19: 01
      Yes, this is a lot of examples, the same stealth technology was originally created by our mathematician, RD series engines and more ....
  2. Vadivak
    Vadivak April 10 2013 12: 13
    Will the new agreement protect the technology of the Su-35 fighter from illegal copying, wonders the Canadian military magazine

    It seems that everyone has long understood everything, copying is a matter of time no more, besides

    With our participation, a contemporary military-industrial complex was created that was able to almost completely provide the Chinese armed forces with everything necessary. Enterprises built then, for example, aviation complexes in Shenyang, Harbin, Xi'an and Chengdu, a tank factory in Baotou (Inner Mongolia, the so-called factory No. 617), as well as a complex of enterprises for the production of small arms and artillery weapons in the north-east of the country are still The basis of the Chinese military-industrial complex. The USSR assisted the development of Chinese rocket science by providing the PRC with samples of the R-1 and P-2 missiles (the first Chinese medium-range ballistic missile DF-2 was created on the basis of the latter).
    Already without any Soviet licenses, the 1970s and 1980s, purchasing weapons from third countries and copying them, the Chinese reproduced the famous Soviet 122-mm howitzer D-30 (type 85), infantry fighting vehicle BMP-1 (type 86), anti-tank missile system "Baby" ("HJ-73 ″), military transport aircraft An-12 ″ (“ Y-8 ″), portable anti-aircraft missile system Strela-2 ″ (“HN- 5 ″) and some other weapon systems. The first original weapons were created, for example, the K-63 armored personnel carrier. Soviet prototypes were deeply processed, for example, the Q-19 attack aircraft was created on the basis of the MiG-5, and the J-21 fighter was used using the MiG-8 design scheme. Technologies for establishing production in China were actively purchased in Europe key components needed to modernize Chinese technology, mainly engines and electronics. Mastering by the Chinese in production, a copy of the 105-mm British gun “L7 ″ for a long time became the main weapon of Chinese tanks. In the 1980s and early 2000s, Israel was a major partner of China in the military-technical sphere, according to American data, it transferred technology to the Chinese production of armor-piercing subcaliber shells with depleted uranium core and licenses for the production of Python-3 air-to-air missiles, MAPATS heavy anti-tank missiles (“HJ-9 ″), a number of communication, reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems, as well as documentation for non went into serial production Israeli fighter "Lavi". It was the Israeli developments on the Lavi that were used to create the Chinese J-10 fighter.
    Now the Chinese are busy with the modernization of the Su-27. And their sale of the Su-35 can rightly be called idiocy.
    1. Vashestambid
      Vashestambid April 10 2013 13: 30
      Quote: Vadivak
      Will the new agreement protect the technology of the Su-35 fighter from illegal copying?

      Well, wait and see !! smile
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt April 10 2013 14: 12
        It used to be: the last Chinese warning, and now: the last Chinese promise. To sell such a plane with a HOLE in IA --- what is the benefit? In money?
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak April 10 2013 15: 25
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          - what’s the benefit? In the money?

          And then, capitalism to his mother that you want to sell, at least the bowels of at least technology, at least the brains
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt April 10 2013 16: 10
            The Chinese of our Gazprom credit, and they want to pull a thread towards them. How can you not be friends with such good guys?
  3. pa_nik
    pa_nik April 10 2013 12: 13
    We arm on our own head ... a potential enemy. And none of those present will see and feel their presence - earned billions. As a result, the question arises: FUCK !? ..create problems for yourself. request
    1. kris
      kris April 10 2013 12: 24
      Quote: pa_nik
      We arm on our own head ... a potential enemy. And none of those present will see and feel their presence - earned billions. As a result, the question arises: FUCK !? ..create problems for yourself.

      all this betrays and betrays!
      1. andrey122
        andrey122 April 10 2013 14: 03
        For the past 20 years, everyone has survived as best they could by selling the Soviet legacy. The psychology of a merchant is their homeland. This is practically untreated.
    2. andrey122
      andrey122 April 10 2013 14: 00
      Pogosyanschina trading. The brain can not be redone. Used to drive everything for sale.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe April 10 2013 14: 15
        Quote: andrey122
        Pogosyanschina trade.

        Although Poghosyan is a techie by education, but according to his first, innate specialty, which is absorbed with mother's milk, he is still a huckster like everyone else, our smaller "brothers".
  4. Alexei
    Alexei April 10 2013 12: 18
    That's beetles. The gap will be reduced, but it’s better that they don’t. When the daylight comes, when you don’t have to sell the best ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak April 10 2013 12: 24
      Quote: Alexej
      but it’s better not to do it anyway.

      Definitely, but the sale will still be successfully launched. And people pick up.
      1. zennon
        zennon April 10 2013 15: 11
        And what can we do? In general, what can we do? People spit on us. If they sometimes come down, then with morality, you see, now freedom, you can tweet on your forums! How to grab these zander by the collar and force the country to serve as a national interests?
  5. MilaPhone
    MilaPhone April 10 2013 12: 45
    Since the end of 2003, France has been conducting a targeted campaign, calling for the lifting of the arms embargo on China. Britain is against, but Germany may support France.
    What is it for me?
    It’s just that the toad would not press too hard. And she presses me personally.
  6. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich April 10 2013 12: 46
    The ends must be sought not in China but with us. And it's good to look, and be sure to find, and be sure to hang. But! Not under the current government.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak April 10 2013 12: 51
      Quote: Mareman Vasilich
      And it's good to look, and be sure to find, and be sure to hang.

      Fair, but not at all
  7. tomket
    tomket April 10 2013 13: 06
    Our officials were worried that China, purchasing only a few Su-35, was clearly going to copy it, and that the copies would be done as it should, our officials insisted on selling 24 units !!! And then we will be surprised how the Americans in Korea when they learned how to build decent aircraft ????
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak April 10 2013 13: 14
      In this case, that 2, that 24 does not play a role. If they can, they will copy technology. And since they will still copy (the Chinese!), And you need to sell, then you can sell more - in order to recoup at least something.
    2. zennon
      zennon April 10 2013 15: 20
      We have always been able to build decent aircraft since the advent of aviation, and we have contributed to this appearance, but the rank has never brought anything. To do anything, you need to have a powerful science, an excellent engineering school, traditions. but our authorities must have brains, but this is more difficult ...
      1. smirnov
        smirnov April 11 2013 02: 44
        Well, they did throw in something in their history, the same gunpowder. But today’s gunpowder has already been used in Europe, and the Chinese have not been able to derive tangible benefits from this invention. I think that all the same, the mistake of the Soviet leaders in transferring technology during our time with them "friendship" will come around more than once in the future.
  8. elmi
    elmi April 10 2013 13: 07
    Obviously, our strategists like to step on the rake, not only did they give the SU-27 and were outraged by the frank copying, but then they again sold the Su-33 and Su-30MK2! and the Chinese successfully sell our clones all over the world at a cheaper price, creating competition for us. It seems that our design bureaus are gradually becoming branches of Chinese aircraft factories.
  9. Atrix
    Atrix April 10 2013 13: 20
    Here, too, I can’t understand why to sell modern weapons to China? Don't the General Staff understand that China is becoming more dangerous and that Russia will have more problems with China in the future. Why arm and give technology that will accelerate the development of a future adversary with whom there are borders and territorial claims.
    1. andrey122
      andrey122 April 10 2013 14: 05
      It is difficult for traders and thieves to understand. The brain is imprisoned for theft and robbery. One reflex is grasping.
  10. Per se.
    Per se. April 10 2013 13: 30
    In general, it is interesting on what rights Rosoboronexport sells weapons and intellectual property of development firms, and how this is consistent with national security interests. The Chinese, for example, during joint exercises with Russia, did not even let people get into their tanks to see the "allies." The impression is that we trade weapons according to one principle - to cut down more dough, everything else is a side to these managers-traders. It is not enough, apparently, that China has not only accumulated and created competition with our own developments, without paying anything for it. The traders say that they don't even understand this7 In addition, there are few of our own ships and new planes, but we are driving over the hill, this is apparently more important.
  11. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe April 10 2013 14: 05
    Our "managers" are born without conscience, honor, with a bunch of grabbers and without brains, and what is most interesting is that there seems to be no one to give them a stick on their raking branches. And where the brains of our president and defense minister are asked? .....! am
  12. Arrogant
    Arrogant April 10 2013 14: 29
    Good day to all!
    Maybe another mess? Either they will sell planes with bookmarks or engines for example from the su-27 will be.
  13. elmi
    elmi April 10 2013 14: 31
    Why would Chinese intelligence risk taking our secrets when it’s easier to buy our officials who make the decision to sell our planes.
    BIGLESHIY April 10 2013 14: 31
    Obtaining a turbojet engine with a controlled traction vector and increased traction will realize the "dream of China"

    In no case should you do this !!!!
  15. Vtel
    Vtel April 10 2013 14: 37
    It was invented in Russia - made in China, America ... and when it is done in Russia, I think it will be bad for them.
  16. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 April 10 2013 14: 43
    It's time to legally "drive into the stall" our hucksters. To set such strict requirements that life would not seem like raspberries. And to plant those who muddy the waters for treason.
    MY THOUGHT April 10 2013 15: 12
    they want to remove the 117th engine from production, maybe the next one is much superior, maybe they are not quite, although knowing "ours" they could simply bend, but there is hope!
  18. Aktino
    Aktino April 10 2013 19: 02
    It remains for them to push the S-400 ...
  19. Bashkaus
    Bashkaus April 10 2013 19: 36
    Guys, what the hell!
    Who is so smart with us, decided to cut the bablos easily?
    I pull out 10 thousand from the feed, I throw it on a collision, join in, if someone needs money so much, let's throw it off (ready for half a year not to drink), buy these unfortunate 24 Su35s at our own expense, give it to our Air Force, And let the "smartest" money go to one place fly, fart and rejoice in their heavenly, only a regular flight of Aeroflot, to the extreme Yarsami Topolyami of the Strategic Missile Forces airline ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak April 10 2013 19: 51
      Quote: Bashkaus
      Guys, what the hell!

      Sparkling + smile
  20. Urkodav
    Urkodav April 11 2013 00: 57
    To sell high-tech weapons, especially to the likely enemy, is treason to the Motherland!