Barrier prokhindyam from OPK
Unscrupulous executors of the state defense order will be held personally liable
In 2013, the Federal Service for Defense Order (Rosoboronzakaz) marks 10 years. During this time, it went through several reforms, was withdrawn from the subordination of the Ministry of Defense, its first persons changed more than once. Introducing 5 in October 2012 to the team of the new leader, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin said that he places great hopes in the service, first of all, in improving the quality of surveillance of supplies of weapons and military equipment, and on the implementation of state defense orders. Rosoboronzakaz director Alexander Potapov spoke about how this work is going on in an exclusive interview with MIC.
"MIC": Alexander V., frankly, not everyone understands what your service is doing. What tasks are assigned to it today and how painless is the process of becoming in a new quality?
“For nine years, the service was under the Ministry of Defense. In May, 2012, by decision of the President of Russia, it was transferred to the structure of the government of the Russian Federation.
Today it is an executive body with control and supervisory functions. With the release of the Federal Law No. 275 “On the State Defense Order”, which began to operate from January 1 2013, we ensure control over the implementation of the State Defense Order from the development of weapons and military equipment until their disposal.
In addition, we are entrusted with the functions of licensing enterprises producing weapons and military equipment and ammunition.
"MIC": Supervision, all kinds of control and licensing powers - it is always a zone of conflict. Especially when it comes to managing and money issues. Probably a lot of complaints?
- Dissatisfied with the results of our checks fairly, this is true. And the number of complaints is not reduced. For example, last year 1217 arrived. We consider each, trying not to bring the matter to the courts. We can suspend or even cancel the auction, creating a normal competitive environment for the participants in the performance of the state defense order.
At the same time, today the tendency towards the appearance of “professional” complainants was clearly marked. Sayazhnichesky became a kind of business, a way to deal with competitors. Separate unscrupulous manufacturers or suppliers in different ways create uncomfortable conditions for the rest of the bidders, and having achieved their own, withdraw their complaints. We are on the border of two environments, where it is very acutely felt, and must react accordingly.
"MIC": Maybe this is due, including the increase in the number of closed trades?
- This is primarily due to the state secret, which is present in the creation of a particular type of weapon. The restriction is objective. The downside here is that sometimes some customers deliberately secret their orders in order to limit the number of bidders. At the board of the Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) we have already discussed this issue and concluded that the capacity of this market cannot be narrowed even for privileged enterprises. All must have equal conditions for the performance of work, including participation in closed auctions. This was taken into account when preparing the new law “On the Federal Contracting System”.
"MIC": But many have the impression that in tenders and contests everything is predetermined in advance ...
- Not all. Although there are facts of collusion between the customer and the performer. There are still loopholes for this. President Putin paid attention to this in the article on guarantees of national security. Let me remind you: he pointed out that it was excessive closeness that led to the inflation of prices for military products, and the superprofits of these enterprises were not to modernize production, but to the pockets of corrupt bosses. Here our today's task is to put a barrier to the swindlers, to make the relations of the participants of the GOZs as clear and transparent as possible.
The federal law “On the Federal Contracting System”, which was mentioned, in particular, provides for the transition from closed to open auctions, their gradual shift to electronic platforms. Such an electronic platform is now being prepared. With the help of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, a state-owned automated defense order system, GAS GOZ, is being created. In the near future we will try to launch it in the pilot version. I think her future is great. In addition, together with the FAS, we will continue to improve decision-making mechanisms and practices in order to cut off unscrupulous executors.
Although everything has its own nuances. For example, every year we are forced to confirm the status of the “sole executor” to the plants on which submarines are built. Frankly speaking, this difficult procedure takes a lot of time and effort from us and the management of the plants, but it is obvious that in the course of a year with all our desire you cannot create a new production. Everyone understands everything, but ... unfortunately, you have to load yourself with what seems to be necessary, but redundant tasks from the point of view of common sense.
"MIC": What prevents to get rid of the bureaucracy?
- Good question. Bureaucracy is a management tool. Including such complexly integrated systems as the military-industrial complex. It is necessary not to get rid of it, but to make it effective. And efficiency depends largely on the regulatory framework that governs its work.
With the release of the Government of the Russian Federation number 604, we have the opportunity to directly go out with legislative and regulatory initiatives. Possessing a sufficiently large information field, we began to make proposals and changes to the current legislation. Actively participated, for example, in the preparation of the law on state defense.
We are also actively working on the CAO (Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses). We stand for toughening and targeted punishments. Why? Because it became almost the norm collusion unscrupulous customer and performer. If before it was enough civil liability in relation to legal entities, now it is time to raise the issue of personal responsibility of managers, initiate administrative cases against them, punish them with a ruble. They even got a register of unscrupulous suppliers.
If, for example, the winner of the bidding declined to conclude a contract, then, in accordance with the law, the state customer must notify us in the not later than three or five days about its inclusion in the appropriate register. But there are such customers, that is, officials who wake up only after 325 days and remember that the contract with the winner of the competition is not signed. But the thing is, as you understand, not in the past due time, but in the fact that during these months the supplier - the applicant of the state contract could win another tender from another customer and also become a participant in the state defense order. As a result, the performer, who logically had to be responsible for non-fulfillment of the order, does not bear any legal responsibility. Therefore, we put such in the so-called black lists of our registry of unscrupulous suppliers. It is in the public domain. Staying there is limited to two years, then you can try to improve. But I do not advise anyone to appear in it, because the reputation is soaked for a long time. The customer understands: you cannot trust budget funds like this.
"MIC": Now there is a new direction of cooperation of the state with private capital, with firms that are willing to invest in the implementation of the state defense order. It's about public-private partnership ...
- Yes, as you remember, President Vladimir Putin wrote about the importance of public-private partnership in his election article on national security strategy. Private companies can be a source of technological breakthroughs. But the lack of working contacts, the closeness of the needs of the Ministry of Defense and other departments that fall under the state defense order interfere. Of course, the open part of the defense order should be as accessible as possible for private investors. There is an understanding of this in the military-industrial complex, where the Council for Public-Private Partnership was created.
The practice of such partnership is applied all over the world, and it is important for us to borrow the best of this experience in order to attract additional investments in high-tech defense projects, as the task was set by Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. Now we are just completing the development of the procedure for creating weapons and military equipment at the expense of private investors themselves and on their initiative. This may attract new participants to the market and reduce state budget expenditures.
The main thing in this business is to combine the interests of the private producer and defense. For example, determine the conditions and admission to the initiative development of those who are willing not to experiment with government budget money, but participate in specific R & D at their own expense.
There are such private companies that do not aim to get fast money from the budget today. They just say: ask us the rules of the game, and we will execute the TOR in a specific time frame. There are those who are willing to take a certain risk in making a profit.
We had quite a few brilliant “private” developments, which, however, did not get a start in life only because they did not fit into the TK of the Ministry of Defense or another power structure. Therefore, our task is to clearly state this order. Rosatom, Roskosmos, the Ministry of Industry and Trade is here on our side. Even the Ministry of Defense is ready to support after solving the issue of intellectual property.
"MIC": One of the most important functions of your service - supervisory activities. Will it be strengthened in the light of large-scale manifestations of corruption, including in defense enterprises?
- Crime, as you know, is better to prevent. Therefore, we use primarily preventive measures. We strive to ensure that the rules for obtaining and executing a contract are transparent and understandable to all market participants. The Federal Law No. 275 “On State Defense Order”, signed by the president at the end of last year, was sent to this. The inevitability of punishment must resist the temptation to launch a paw into the treasury. Break the law - answer.
We strive to ensure that the preparation for the conclusion of contracts for the next year begins in the summer. This will ensure a high degree of their feasibility. We want to ensure that the customers hold tenders for contracts for the state defense order to conclude contracts until the end of the year, and financing began, relatively speaking, from January 1.
Another important issue is related to the upcoming changes to the Budget Code. It happens, the execution of the contract for various reasons shifts in time. We want to get permission to send the money of the current year to the next in order to make payments for the made, but let's say, non-shipped products.
"MIC": What other disciplinary measures will be taken against violators?
- We work in two fields: civil and administrative. Materials on violations related to criminal liability are sent to law enforcement agencies. We initiate administrative cases of offenses, which has, as a rule, serious consequences. In the 2012 year, 685 administrative cases were filed for the violations found, and 413 government customer officials were involved in administrative fines.
Where the limits of our competence come, we transfer cases to law enforcement agencies. There we are already talking about criminal liability.
"MIC": But how is access to the disposal of ammunition, it happens, get those organizations that do not have the right to do so?
- This is a licensed type of activity, not only along our line, but also through Rostechnadzor, the FSB. Unfortunately, it happens that an organization that wins a competition for such work hires contractors (co-contractors). This is a mess. Thus, as part of our audit, it turned out that Oboronservis, as a direct recipient of a government contract for the disposal of ammunition, had entered into a number of agreements with a co-executor, an enterprise with only five people in its staff. It was located in Moscow, where, of course, no one was going to destroy or dispose of ammunition. Naturally, the money was withdrawn somewhere, it is possible that someone’s vested interests were present. The case we handed over to law enforcement. Further - their competence.
The fight against corruption is becoming a nationwide task, because, as the president said, corruption in the field of national security is essentially treason. Today, more than 40 government customers are under our control, plus their structural units in the regions. The amounts with which they will operate until the 2020 year, as is known, are more than 20 trillion rubles. Here, even if we proceed from the theory of large numbers, there is sure to be something to talk about in terms of fighting corruption.
"MIC": How realistic can you influence the situation in a given situation? Last year, for example, they had to pass three atomic submarines. Passed one boat with difficulty. The same submarines "Severodvinsk", "St. Petersburg" have been building 20 years. Do you have leverage?
- The President, the Chairman of the Government, the leadership of the military-industrial complex set before us a specific task for the implementation of the State Armaments Program. She is solved by means of GOZ. If the state defense order is not fulfilled and does not comply with the LG, we must say this directly to the leadership of the country. The example with submarines is typical. But here you can not chop from the shoulder. If you do not normally advance, and the contract is repeatedly adjusted, then how to be the manufacturer?
The main lesson - you can not change the rules during the game, neither the customer nor the performer. In this regard, we are precisely the sovereign eye that should notice everything in time and, I repeat, inform the country's leadership about violations, so that management decisions are made in a timely manner.
We now have powerful levers of influence on the customer and the performer, the ability to get them to play by the established rules. Until recently, for example, penalties went only in the direction of the performer. And let's say, for the late transfer of advance payment of penalties was not provided. Therefore, we are talking with the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation and other customers about the formation of the rules of the game that are understandable to everyone - both customers and performers.
"MIC": The problem is that there is almost no one to write competent TK in our country today. During the years of reform, the generation of such specialists has gone, and new ones have not appeared. Is not it?
- The problem of personnel is. You correctly noticed. In the dashing 90-e and 2000-e in the "defense" was a personnel failure due to the economic downturn and the fall in the prestige of work in the defense industry. Something we lost. The leadership of the country has an understanding of this problem, and I see that everything is being done now so that the profession of an engineer, as in 60's, will once again become prestigious.
I myself remember how I started working at the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering with Academician Nadiradze. It was great: for us, the young, to communicate with them, wise, outside the box and in a state-like manner, respectful people. They were all role models.
Now the difference in the age of engineering personnel is great - 20 years and more. But the continuity is not interrupted. I even tend to see this as a positive. He and the fact that the older generation with the arrival of young people gets a new view on things, on modernity, in a new way understands the technical revolution of the last decades, when our industry was in stagnation. The older generation from the young, from the younger, with whom the 25 – 30 age difference, and even 40 years, acquires a new creative impulse, a new understanding of the meaning of their work.
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who oversees the defense industry, speaking about the personnel issue at a recent military-industrial conference, noted that work on a program for training and retraining personnel before the 2020 year is at the finish line.
It is known that every problem has the potential to solve it. So here, young people, a new generation of engineers and designers, get a real prospect of self-realization and accelerated career growth, and the military-industrial complex - a surge of energy and energy of the young. So this is our common work with you on raising labor in the defense industry, returning young people to enterprises and to the design offices of the military-industrial complex of Russia.
In 2013, the Federal Service for Defense Order (Rosoboronzakaz) marks 10 years. During this time, it went through several reforms, was withdrawn from the subordination of the Ministry of Defense, its first persons changed more than once. Introducing 5 in October 2012 to the team of the new leader, Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin said that he places great hopes in the service, first of all, in improving the quality of surveillance of supplies of weapons and military equipment, and on the implementation of state defense orders. Rosoboronzakaz director Alexander Potapov spoke about how this work is going on in an exclusive interview with MIC.
"MIC": Alexander V., frankly, not everyone understands what your service is doing. What tasks are assigned to it today and how painless is the process of becoming in a new quality?
“For nine years, the service was under the Ministry of Defense. In May, 2012, by decision of the President of Russia, it was transferred to the structure of the government of the Russian Federation.
Today it is an executive body with control and supervisory functions. With the release of the Federal Law No. 275 “On the State Defense Order”, which began to operate from January 1 2013, we ensure control over the implementation of the State Defense Order from the development of weapons and military equipment until their disposal.
In addition, we are entrusted with the functions of licensing enterprises producing weapons and military equipment and ammunition.
"MIC": Supervision, all kinds of control and licensing powers - it is always a zone of conflict. Especially when it comes to managing and money issues. Probably a lot of complaints?- Dissatisfied with the results of our checks fairly, this is true. And the number of complaints is not reduced. For example, last year 1217 arrived. We consider each, trying not to bring the matter to the courts. We can suspend or even cancel the auction, creating a normal competitive environment for the participants in the performance of the state defense order.
At the same time, today the tendency towards the appearance of “professional” complainants was clearly marked. Sayazhnichesky became a kind of business, a way to deal with competitors. Separate unscrupulous manufacturers or suppliers in different ways create uncomfortable conditions for the rest of the bidders, and having achieved their own, withdraw their complaints. We are on the border of two environments, where it is very acutely felt, and must react accordingly.
"MIC": Maybe this is due, including the increase in the number of closed trades?
- This is primarily due to the state secret, which is present in the creation of a particular type of weapon. The restriction is objective. The downside here is that sometimes some customers deliberately secret their orders in order to limit the number of bidders. At the board of the Federal Antimonopoly Service (FAS) we have already discussed this issue and concluded that the capacity of this market cannot be narrowed even for privileged enterprises. All must have equal conditions for the performance of work, including participation in closed auctions. This was taken into account when preparing the new law “On the Federal Contracting System”.
"MIC": But many have the impression that in tenders and contests everything is predetermined in advance ...
- Not all. Although there are facts of collusion between the customer and the performer. There are still loopholes for this. President Putin paid attention to this in the article on guarantees of national security. Let me remind you: he pointed out that it was excessive closeness that led to the inflation of prices for military products, and the superprofits of these enterprises were not to modernize production, but to the pockets of corrupt bosses. Here our today's task is to put a barrier to the swindlers, to make the relations of the participants of the GOZs as clear and transparent as possible.
The federal law “On the Federal Contracting System”, which was mentioned, in particular, provides for the transition from closed to open auctions, their gradual shift to electronic platforms. Such an electronic platform is now being prepared. With the help of the military-industrial complex and the Ministry of Industry and Trade, a state-owned automated defense order system, GAS GOZ, is being created. In the near future we will try to launch it in the pilot version. I think her future is great. In addition, together with the FAS, we will continue to improve decision-making mechanisms and practices in order to cut off unscrupulous executors.
Although everything has its own nuances. For example, every year we are forced to confirm the status of the “sole executor” to the plants on which submarines are built. Frankly speaking, this difficult procedure takes a lot of time and effort from us and the management of the plants, but it is obvious that in the course of a year with all our desire you cannot create a new production. Everyone understands everything, but ... unfortunately, you have to load yourself with what seems to be necessary, but redundant tasks from the point of view of common sense.
"MIC": What prevents to get rid of the bureaucracy?
- Good question. Bureaucracy is a management tool. Including such complexly integrated systems as the military-industrial complex. It is necessary not to get rid of it, but to make it effective. And efficiency depends largely on the regulatory framework that governs its work.
With the release of the Government of the Russian Federation number 604, we have the opportunity to directly go out with legislative and regulatory initiatives. Possessing a sufficiently large information field, we began to make proposals and changes to the current legislation. Actively participated, for example, in the preparation of the law on state defense.
We are also actively working on the CAO (Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses). We stand for toughening and targeted punishments. Why? Because it became almost the norm collusion unscrupulous customer and performer. If before it was enough civil liability in relation to legal entities, now it is time to raise the issue of personal responsibility of managers, initiate administrative cases against them, punish them with a ruble. They even got a register of unscrupulous suppliers.
If, for example, the winner of the bidding declined to conclude a contract, then, in accordance with the law, the state customer must notify us in the not later than three or five days about its inclusion in the appropriate register. But there are such customers, that is, officials who wake up only after 325 days and remember that the contract with the winner of the competition is not signed. But the thing is, as you understand, not in the past due time, but in the fact that during these months the supplier - the applicant of the state contract could win another tender from another customer and also become a participant in the state defense order. As a result, the performer, who logically had to be responsible for non-fulfillment of the order, does not bear any legal responsibility. Therefore, we put such in the so-called black lists of our registry of unscrupulous suppliers. It is in the public domain. Staying there is limited to two years, then you can try to improve. But I do not advise anyone to appear in it, because the reputation is soaked for a long time. The customer understands: you cannot trust budget funds like this.
"MIC": Now there is a new direction of cooperation of the state with private capital, with firms that are willing to invest in the implementation of the state defense order. It's about public-private partnership ...
- Yes, as you remember, President Vladimir Putin wrote about the importance of public-private partnership in his election article on national security strategy. Private companies can be a source of technological breakthroughs. But the lack of working contacts, the closeness of the needs of the Ministry of Defense and other departments that fall under the state defense order interfere. Of course, the open part of the defense order should be as accessible as possible for private investors. There is an understanding of this in the military-industrial complex, where the Council for Public-Private Partnership was created.
The practice of such partnership is applied all over the world, and it is important for us to borrow the best of this experience in order to attract additional investments in high-tech defense projects, as the task was set by Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. Now we are just completing the development of the procedure for creating weapons and military equipment at the expense of private investors themselves and on their initiative. This may attract new participants to the market and reduce state budget expenditures.
The main thing in this business is to combine the interests of the private producer and defense. For example, determine the conditions and admission to the initiative development of those who are willing not to experiment with government budget money, but participate in specific R & D at their own expense.
There are such private companies that do not aim to get fast money from the budget today. They just say: ask us the rules of the game, and we will execute the TOR in a specific time frame. There are those who are willing to take a certain risk in making a profit.
We had quite a few brilliant “private” developments, which, however, did not get a start in life only because they did not fit into the TK of the Ministry of Defense or another power structure. Therefore, our task is to clearly state this order. Rosatom, Roskosmos, the Ministry of Industry and Trade is here on our side. Even the Ministry of Defense is ready to support after solving the issue of intellectual property.
"MIC": One of the most important functions of your service - supervisory activities. Will it be strengthened in the light of large-scale manifestations of corruption, including in defense enterprises?
- Crime, as you know, is better to prevent. Therefore, we use primarily preventive measures. We strive to ensure that the rules for obtaining and executing a contract are transparent and understandable to all market participants. The Federal Law No. 275 “On State Defense Order”, signed by the president at the end of last year, was sent to this. The inevitability of punishment must resist the temptation to launch a paw into the treasury. Break the law - answer.
We strive to ensure that the preparation for the conclusion of contracts for the next year begins in the summer. This will ensure a high degree of their feasibility. We want to ensure that the customers hold tenders for contracts for the state defense order to conclude contracts until the end of the year, and financing began, relatively speaking, from January 1.
Another important issue is related to the upcoming changes to the Budget Code. It happens, the execution of the contract for various reasons shifts in time. We want to get permission to send the money of the current year to the next in order to make payments for the made, but let's say, non-shipped products.
"MIC": What other disciplinary measures will be taken against violators?
- We work in two fields: civil and administrative. Materials on violations related to criminal liability are sent to law enforcement agencies. We initiate administrative cases of offenses, which has, as a rule, serious consequences. In the 2012 year, 685 administrative cases were filed for the violations found, and 413 government customer officials were involved in administrative fines.
Where the limits of our competence come, we transfer cases to law enforcement agencies. There we are already talking about criminal liability.
"MIC": But how is access to the disposal of ammunition, it happens, get those organizations that do not have the right to do so?
- This is a licensed type of activity, not only along our line, but also through Rostechnadzor, the FSB. Unfortunately, it happens that an organization that wins a competition for such work hires contractors (co-contractors). This is a mess. Thus, as part of our audit, it turned out that Oboronservis, as a direct recipient of a government contract for the disposal of ammunition, had entered into a number of agreements with a co-executor, an enterprise with only five people in its staff. It was located in Moscow, where, of course, no one was going to destroy or dispose of ammunition. Naturally, the money was withdrawn somewhere, it is possible that someone’s vested interests were present. The case we handed over to law enforcement. Further - their competence.
The fight against corruption is becoming a nationwide task, because, as the president said, corruption in the field of national security is essentially treason. Today, more than 40 government customers are under our control, plus their structural units in the regions. The amounts with which they will operate until the 2020 year, as is known, are more than 20 trillion rubles. Here, even if we proceed from the theory of large numbers, there is sure to be something to talk about in terms of fighting corruption.
"MIC": How realistic can you influence the situation in a given situation? Last year, for example, they had to pass three atomic submarines. Passed one boat with difficulty. The same submarines "Severodvinsk", "St. Petersburg" have been building 20 years. Do you have leverage?
- The President, the Chairman of the Government, the leadership of the military-industrial complex set before us a specific task for the implementation of the State Armaments Program. She is solved by means of GOZ. If the state defense order is not fulfilled and does not comply with the LG, we must say this directly to the leadership of the country. The example with submarines is typical. But here you can not chop from the shoulder. If you do not normally advance, and the contract is repeatedly adjusted, then how to be the manufacturer?
The main lesson - you can not change the rules during the game, neither the customer nor the performer. In this regard, we are precisely the sovereign eye that should notice everything in time and, I repeat, inform the country's leadership about violations, so that management decisions are made in a timely manner.
We now have powerful levers of influence on the customer and the performer, the ability to get them to play by the established rules. Until recently, for example, penalties went only in the direction of the performer. And let's say, for the late transfer of advance payment of penalties was not provided. Therefore, we are talking with the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation and other customers about the formation of the rules of the game that are understandable to everyone - both customers and performers.
"MIC": The problem is that there is almost no one to write competent TK in our country today. During the years of reform, the generation of such specialists has gone, and new ones have not appeared. Is not it?
- The problem of personnel is. You correctly noticed. In the dashing 90-e and 2000-e in the "defense" was a personnel failure due to the economic downturn and the fall in the prestige of work in the defense industry. Something we lost. The leadership of the country has an understanding of this problem, and I see that everything is being done now so that the profession of an engineer, as in 60's, will once again become prestigious.
I myself remember how I started working at the Moscow Institute of Thermal Engineering with Academician Nadiradze. It was great: for us, the young, to communicate with them, wise, outside the box and in a state-like manner, respectful people. They were all role models.
Now the difference in the age of engineering personnel is great - 20 years and more. But the continuity is not interrupted. I even tend to see this as a positive. He and the fact that the older generation with the arrival of young people gets a new view on things, on modernity, in a new way understands the technical revolution of the last decades, when our industry was in stagnation. The older generation from the young, from the younger, with whom the 25 – 30 age difference, and even 40 years, acquires a new creative impulse, a new understanding of the meaning of their work.
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who oversees the defense industry, speaking about the personnel issue at a recent military-industrial conference, noted that work on a program for training and retraining personnel before the 2020 year is at the finish line.
It is known that every problem has the potential to solve it. So here, young people, a new generation of engineers and designers, get a real prospect of self-realization and accelerated career growth, and the military-industrial complex - a surge of energy and energy of the young. So this is our common work with you on raising labor in the defense industry, returning young people to enterprises and to the design offices of the military-industrial complex of Russia.
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