19FortyFive: Russian nuclear torpedo Poseidon outperforms any ship in speed

The Poseidon nuclear torpedoes, which the Russian special-purpose nuclear submarine Belgorod of Project 09852 is armed with, can surpass any ship in speed.

An article published on the 19FortyFive portal states that the Belgorod submarine is capable of carrying up to six Poseidon torpedoes equipped with a nuclear warhead and a nuclear power plant. These torpedoes, among other things, are capable of inflicting unacceptable damage to coastal cities and enemy aircraft carrier strike groups. In addition, as the publication writes, Poseidon torpedoes have a virtually unlimited range.

Although the official characteristics of the Poseidon are currently unknown, the torpedo is presumably 20 meters long and 1,8 meters in diameter. At the same time, the Poseidon is completely invulnerable to modern defenses. Once launched, the Poseidon acts as an unmanned device that can be remotely directed to a target at a speed of up to 190 km/h.

The nuclear submarine Belgorod was launched in 2019. The characteristics of the submarine are currently classified, but according to open sources, the main feature of the ship is its low-noise movement. Equipped with Poseidons, the Belgorod submarine will serve in the Pacific navy. Thus, American AUGs in the region cannot feel safe.

Comments

[rocket757]

If you think about it... torpedoes are already faster than ships, with the exception of small and very fast vessels.

[Mazunga]

this is the agenda and funding I'm working on for the portrait of Subedei in Fili when I look I'm starting to be tormented by vague doubts)) by the way if the torpedoes didn't catch up with the ships it would be a number))

[Dedok]

this is the agenda and funding I am working on for the portrait of Subedei in Fili when I look I begin to be tormented by vague doubts

and not only you...

[Vasily I]

During the Second World War (since 1943), German submarines used electric torpedoes with speeds of 20 and 24 knots, which is much less than the speeds of then and modern destroyers, cruisers, etc.

[credo]

While all these conclusions of foreign experts are pure speculation, with a certain amount of fear of our weapons, but on the other hand, our failure to use such weapons in military conditions, as for example now, the enemy may perceive as feigned bravado on our part, especially after the Ukrainian Armed Forces entered the Kursk region and have been attacking our territory with UAVs for the fourth year in a row, causing us certain damage.

The tactic of a thousand small pricks from the enemy, on the one hand, does not give us a reason to use more powerful, serious and formidable weapons, and on the other hand, it gives the enemy a reason to continue to inflict damage on us by such methods of local war without direct participation from their side, i.e. NATO.

[Lev_Russia]

The tactic of a thousand small pricks from the enemy on one side does not give us a reason to use more powerful, serious and formidable weapons

Everything they have is small, either a mosquito fleet or injections, but the damage they cause is very big... Well, for us, since we don't have any small ones, it can play out big... Use our domestic "Repellent" so that all these small ones die... Look, the Americans used theirs in Japan, and now the Japanese pray to America as a whole country...

[Zoldat_A]

Poseidon is faster than any ship

Quote: rocket757

If you think about it... torpedoes are already faster than ships, with the exception of small and very fast vessels.

I am not a submariner by any stretch of the imagination, but what I understood about the Poseidon is that it has a completely different concept of combat use. And to say that no ship can "run away" from it is not entirely correct, in my opinion. No one was going to run from it, like from a regular torpedo.
It would probably be more correct to say that no ship can catch up with it. In addition, it was said to be inaccessible in depth. Perhaps, in its sense, the Poseidon is not even quite a torpedo in the form in which we are accustomed to using torpedoes.

[Sky strike fighter]

Recently there was information that the Belgorod submarine entered service with the Russian Navy.

The Russian Navy has received the K-329 Belgorod nuclear submarine, which stands out not only for its size but also for its unique functions. Firstly, it is part of the Russian nuclear deterrence system, armed with six Poseidon strategic torpedoes with nuclear warheads. According to experts, these torpedoes have a virtually unlimited range and high speed thanks to their nuclear engine and can hit both aircraft carrier groups and coastal cities. Secondly, Belgorod can act as a "mother" submarine for mini-submarines capable of performing deep-sea operations.

https://dzen.ru/a/aETbuE32L0xbWpX6

[by land]

The main enemy of the Poseidon torpedo, in my opinion, will not be ships and submarines, but networks of hydroacoustic sensors that already cover the exit to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans (in some places). It is clear that a torpedo of such size and speed will be detected by passive hydroacoustic systems at incredible distances. And when it is detected, it is unclear what will prevent the Americans from simply intercepting our Poseidon with their Poseidon (winged)

[Fisherman]

underwater at 190 km/h? are you serious? WITH WHAT?

[by land]

With the P-8 Poseidon, as I said, which will fire multiple Mark 50 torpedoes. Speed ​​is not an issue, you can just fire the torpedo ahead of the target on an intercept trajectory.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Fisherman

underwater at 190 km/h? are you serious? WITH WHAT?

Yes, with the same anti-submarine torpedoes on a collision course. Fortunately, there won't be any problems with guidance - at such a speed, the Poseidon will scream across half the ocean.

[Sensor]

underwater at 190 km/h?

And this is far from the limit.
Shkval (high-speed underwater missile) see Wiki 320 km/h. The price for such high speed

Due to the enormous speed (200 knots), the torpedo produces a lot of noise and vibration, which unmasks the submarine.
The short launch range (only 13 km) unmasks the submarine, which negatively affects survivability.
The maximum depth of the course (up to 30 m) does not allow hitting submarines at great depths.
The ramjet engine's impulse is higher than other engines, which can cause damage to the submarine's sonar.
The nose of the torpedo does not allow the installation of a homing head (GHS) on it - sea water enters through the nose.
Low probability of hitting a target with a conventional warhead and without a seeker.

[Fisherman]

let's say it's UNINTERCEPTED at that speed...they won't have time to detect it and won't have time to intercept it once they detect it. That's the end.

[by land]

For example, a torpedo launched from the North Sea needs 30 hours to cross the Atlantic and reach New York at its maximum declared speed. And it will be detected with 100% probability when it passes the GIUK corridor. Is this not enough time to organize an interception?

[SAG]

Quote: overland

For example, a torpedo launched from the North Sea needs 30 hours to cross the Atlantic and reach New York at its maximum declared speed. And it will be detected with 100% probability when it passes the GIUK corridor. Is this not enough time to organize an interception?

Do you seriously think that the launch of Poseidon will be carried out from the opposite side of the ocean and without cover?!
Why do you think a carrier submarine is needed then? Do you think the depths at which Poseidon operates can be neglected? There was information that this autonomous missile can simply be left at the desired point, where it will lie and wait for a launch signal for years, and it is not a fact that this has not been done yet...

[Oldrover]

It's amazing how people can write obvious nonsense with a smart look. How can you even admit that someone in their right mind would leave a thermonuclear weapon unattended somewhere in the ocean? What kind of foolishness is this?
Secondly, if someone does go crazy and leaves such a bomb, there will immediately be questions of maintenance, even land-based missiles require regular maintenance, and here is an underwater object, the question of communications, checking readiness, etc.

[SAG]

Quote: Oldrover

It's amazing how people can write obvious nonsense with an intelligent look.

I strongly support you here!
Apparently you understand the purpose of this product better than the designers who included this capability in it and announced it.
My father taught me from an early age not to argue with such people and to agree. All the best to you.

[Oldrover]

Understand what the matter is, you refer to designers using just “voices” in your head, only “journalists” and “experts” announced. Your problem is that you don’t know how to work with information (judging by how boldly you refer to designers).
Well, and secondly, use normal logic, even missiles located in silos are reliably guarded, and here you seriously assume that such a super weapon will be left somewhere in the ocean unattended, well guys, honestly, learn critical thinking already.

[SAG]

Do you seriously think that such a super weapon would be left somewhere in the ocean unattended?

You boast that you supposedly know how to work with information. At the same time, you clearly throw in false facts. Show me where I thought that Poseidon would be left without control? (And we are neglecting the depths again)
P.S.: I read your comments to learn how to work with information. The voices in your head clearly tell you to criticize everything domestic and praise everything Western))) Is this critical thinking?

[Oldrover]

. Show me where I thought Poseidon would be left unchecked? (and we are again neglecting the depths)

Let's start with something simple, show where you got the information j njv what the designers of Poseidon put in, and you will understand everything yourself.

Show me where I thought Poseidon would be left unchecked? (and we are again neglecting the depths)

Well, you're already starting to evade, let me remind you of your phrase:

There was information that this autonomous missile could simply leave it at the right point, where it will lie and wait for the signal to start for years and it is not a fact that this has not been done yet... hi

and now look for the fifth corner already and not without control and some depth is present.

The voices in your head are clearly telling you to criticize everything domestic and praise everything Western))) is this critical thinking? good

I don’t insist at all, this doesn’t cancel out the stupidity you initially wrote from a technical point of view.

[SAG]

Well, you're already starting to evade, let me remind you of your phrase:

There was information that this autonomous rocket could simply be left at the desired point, where it would lie and wait for a signal to launch for years, and it is not a fact that this has not been done yet... hi

Where is it written here that the product will remain uncontrolled? Are the voices in my head whispering something? You still think it's normal to accuse me of shirking. People from the outside will read this and judge.
Regarding where the information about this method of using Poseidon comes from. I watched the program on "Zvezda" and an interview with NPO Rubin. Well, this is not an argument for you. Apparently, the general designer should personally explain it to you and give a technical justification, otherwise he has voices in his head. The principle is clear.

[Oldrover]

. I watched the program on "Zvezda" and the interview with NPO Rubin. Well, for you this is not an argument. Apparently, the general designer should personally explain to you and give a technical justification, otherwise he has voices in his head. The principle is clear.

I thought that you get your knowledge from the Zvezda TV channel, I have no more questions.

[SAG]

If you know how to work with information, you can easily explain why it was necessary to make serious technical changes with huge investments in the "Belgorod" so that it could carry the deep-sea vehicle "Losharik". I think with your approach the answer will be: for scientific research that is in no way connected with the Poseidon product, the carriers of which are, quite by chance, the submarine cruiser of this type.

[Cympak]

At 190 km/h, Poseidon will be heard hundreds of kilometers away. The plane flies faster than 190 km/h, and nuclear depth charges and anti-torpedoes will be used against the nuclear torpedo.
But how Poseidon will be guided with the declared range of hundreds to thousands of kilometers is an unanswered question.

[jonht]

There is a unit in our Navy called GUGI, they study the ocean floor from open sources. Do you think we have a map of the seabed to the designated points on the coast? Here is the answer to how to get to the specified point. The method has long been used in aviation. Regarding the interception, everything is also not so clear. Depth charges are immediately eliminated, they will take too long to dive to a depth of about a kilometer (according to the information) at which the Poseidon will move and maneuver. Torpedoes remain, but the range of a torpedo depends on its speed, so the MK-48, according to various sources, has a maximum speed of 55-60 knots and a range of about 50 km. The maximum range is about 60-70 km, but at a speed of 40-45 knots. That is, in order to dive to a depth of 1 kilometer, it will take it 5-7 minutes (it does not go vertically down after leaving the TA). Now, regarding torpedo guidance, they are guided by the noise of the propellers and their wake. Now let's add the difference in water density at different depths, the difference in temperature, direction and speed of currents at different depths. The tricky question is whether there is at least one guidance head capable of working in such conditions. And let's also add the effect of reflection of sound waves from different layers of water (echo). And the head does not capture noise confidently right away. So, there seems to be something to get it, but I think the probability of hitting is not even 0,5... Something like that.

[rocket757]

So no one is running after torpedoes... there are different methods of counteraction: anti-torpedoes, simulators and depth charges.

[ZovSailor]

rocket757
Today, 11: 27
If you think about it... torpedoes are already faster than ships, with the exception of small and very fast vessels.

I am not familiar with the Poseidon project, but the author means the underwater speed of Poseidon is 190 km/h, which corresponds to approximately 100 knots.
At present, the speed of the most high-speed military surface ships in serial production in surface position, the speed ranges from 30 to 50-60 knots (landing craft on an air cushion).
Jet-powered records are set periodically, but in isolated instances and often with tragic outcomes.

[rocket757]

There is probably nothing faster than the Shkval underwater missile...
Moving quickly in an aquatic environment is quite a challenge... with the help of propellers, the speed is limited.

[ZovSailor]

rocket757
Today, 15: 11
There is probably nothing faster than the Shkval underwater missile...
Moving quickly in an aquatic environment is quite a challenge... with the help of propellers, the speed is limited.

Each weapon has an advantage in a narrow range of applications and specializations; there is no multifunctional weapon that is effective for all cases of application.
Shkval has limitations in range and speed in certain areas, as well as strong noise and vibration, which are the reasons for further modernization of the torpedo-missile.

[rocket757]

If you think about it, imagine... if an object of ultimate scale and purpose quietly reaches the enemy's coastal military bases and... in general, what will happen???

[ZovSailor]

rocket757
Today, 17: 46
If you think about it, imagine... if an object of ultimate scale and purpose quietly reaches the enemy's coastal military bases and... in general, what will happen???

Taking into account modern realities, it is possible to strike with Shkval against targets at a distance of up to 55 km, a little more, since the information is classified, but a deep modernization is expected, the SVO has shifted the deadlines somewhat.
And Poseidon is a strategic weapon, with a virtually unlimited range and an unpredictable strike trajectory.

[stankow]

But the torpedo can't chase the target at such a distance. And they aren't launched at such a range.

[rocket757]

They equipped the torpedo with a powerful energy source, the increase in speed and range is significant, but... this does not make it an absolute weapon, methods of counteraction will be found, although not immediately... however, these are all versions, assumptions, fortune-telling!!!

[RVAPatriot]

But the article says about depth... do we have many enemies who look 500 meters into the depths????

[jdiver]

Well, the targets are on the shore, aren't they? The enemy has many targets on the edge of kilometer-long faults in the sea and ocean floor? Usually there are many tens of kilometers of shelf there, at least a hundred meters deep, or even less.

[Ross xnumx]

These torpedoes, among other things, are capable of inflicting unacceptable damage to coastal cities and the enemy's carrier strike groups...
Thus, American AUGs in the region cannot feel safe...

I would like for the country located on the islands in the eastern Atlantic to suddenly and abruptly become concerned about its own existence and forget about Russia, Russophobia, Ukraine and other nonsense...

[Sgt.]

What good is this torpedo if it is never used?
For example, former senator Savelyev’s ex-wife and children allegedly live in London.
And I think not only Savelyev.

[stankow]

In a nuclear standoff there is such a time of "immediate danger". Then the diplomats and their families leave, a warning is issued to all citizens. Of course, this is very tense for the potential enemy...

[Tagan]

What good is this torpedo if it is never used?

Ideally, the idea is to never use it, like other nuclear weapons.

[Montezuma]

Quote: Sergeant

What good is this torpedo if it is never used?

According to your logic, all the Strategic Missile Forces are of no use, and God forbid if it comes to using them.

Quote: Sergeant

For example, former senator Savelyev’s ex-wife and children allegedly live in London.

And who will this stop, if anything happens? The former senator will not allow the red button to be pressed, protecting his ex-wife in London? Something fresher cannot be thought up? Some rotten arguments, far-fetched.

[ilya63]

Do you think that when the question of using nuclear weapons arises, the Supreme Leader will think about the wives of senators? I doubt it, when a forest is cut down, chips fly.

[Sgt.]

Maybe they will think about their own. He is not the only one making decisions.

[jdiver]

This is not the first attack on our nuclear triad. And the question still hasn't been raised. It's hard to raise this very question, apparently.

[SAG]

Quote: Sergeant

What good is this torpedo if it is never used?
For example, former senator Savelyev’s ex-wife and children allegedly live in London.
And I think not only Savelyev.

Have you heard anything about nuclear deterrence? Read it, it's a really interesting topic!

[Knell wardenheart]

Big, noisy and speed does not mean maneuverability. Also doubts about "invulnerability" because kinetic means of influence on the course (in case of early detection) have not yet been cancelled.

[Fisherman]

Poseidon is just maneuverable...and his speeds are different...you won't be able to get out of it.

[faridg7]

Well, even if you discover it in advance, what will you do with it - the speed and depth of movement are not yet available to any means of destruction that exist.

[Knell wardenheart]

The depth of the world's oceans is different everywhere and varies significantly. "even if it is detected in advance" - SOSUS, and other NATO anti-submarine systems, hydroacoustic buoys. A device that rushes underwater at such speeds produces so much noise underwater, given the properties of the environment, this noise is carried over such large distances that its early detection is a problem from the 1970s. If the standard AUG means are not capable of detecting such a colossus, then they have been just playing around for about 50 years.
Regarding the means of destruction - anti-torpedoes on a collision course, torpedoes with nuclear warheads, depth charges on a collision course. All the same means, in essence, as for combating enemy submarines. Because the product is essentially a submarine, one of the advantages of which is speed, and one of the disadvantages is noise, which will be used to target this product with the means of its destruction.

I understand the excitement of this whole topic, but NATO has a strong, multi-layered anti-submarine defense. They won't have to create something new on a large scale to counter this threat - they'll just refine the old one.

[Dirty Liar]

This is debatable (purely in theory).

anti-torpedoes on a collision course

Not right away. Anti-torpedoes are designed to destroy unguided straight-running torpedoes, the course of which is calculated in advance and it is going to intercept. Poseidon can change both course and depth.

torpedoes with nuclear warheads

It's already closer, if not for one "but":

The United States removed tactical nuclear warheads from its ships shortly after the end of the Cold War, and soon after stopped using all nuclear weapons on surface ships. However, the United States still retains a number of warheads for destruction.

depth charges on a collision course

The same goes for torpedoes. In addition, GBs were not originally designed to work against high-speed targets. Their target is enemy submarines, whose speed is significantly lower.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from: DirtyLiar

Poseidon can change both course and depth.

At 100 knots, Poseidon will detect a torpedo only at the moment of impact.
And yes, in addition to conventional torpedoes, there are also anti-submarine missiles with a SBCh.

Quote from: DirtyLiar

Their target is enemy submarines, whose speed is significantly lower.

But religion does not allow the Americans to recalculate the lead point for the anti-submarine missile taking into account the target’s speed.
And yes, "significantly lower" for submarines is 40-45 knots. The Yankees' ASW was built to counter, among other things, Projects 661 and 705.

[Knell wardenheart]

Again, purely in theory - given some "difficulties" with controlling anything remotely underwater, "Poseidon" will act according to a pre-programmed program and it is unlikely that they will equip it with any significant means of situational awareness and significant intellectual stuffing that will give it the ability to respond to the situation and apply flexibly decisions through AI. No, it IS possible to do this, but even without this, the "golden" "Poseidon" turns into a diamond one and becomes an extremely expensive AI boat stuffed with expensive equipment "one way". So this will hardly happen, and therefore all these "maneuvers" will occur within the framework of a given program along a more or less pre-mapped route. Its situational awareness as well as its adjustments "in the situation" will be severely limited (probably) for design, weight and size, economic, etc. reasons and will be obviously inferior to the capabilities of submarines and destroyers, for which these systems are created with less consideration of price and economy, and are also not clearly disposable.
What I am getting at is that the Poseidon most likely will not actively maneuver at more or less short distances (the distances of using cable-guided torpedoes or anti-torpedoes or the distances of their noise-guided analogues) and most likely, again, this “maneuvering” in its case is maneuvering at long distances to a stationary target along a pre-known route.
That is, I am very skeptical about the "uninterceptability" of "Poseidon" in the event that it is detected in advance and there is time for the anti-submarine defense to react. Simply because "Poseidon" itself most likely has adequate means to detect that it has been detected (hehe, tautology) and will not change its course of action. It will act programmatically.
Now, regarding some special depths - imagine a product rushing at a huge speed in a very dense medium (relative even to air), and forced during vertical maneuvering to overcome a significant difference in the properties of this medium (different ocean layers with different properties) and a significant difference in pressure (that's much worse) over significant distances. For real structural materials, significant vertical maneuvering at high speeds in such a medium and over long distances can be, so to speak, fraught. In view of this, I am again skeptical that its vertical maneuvering program will be SO active, as far as one can imagine, that it will wildly loop in the range from 1000 to 200 meters. It CAN do this, but will it? And most importantly, how will it decide whether to launch this algorithm or not - given its sieve limitations?
But, let's say, we have some coordinates of the AUG - one way or another, as it approaches it, firstly, it will be detected (due to noise) at distances exceeding the detection range of Soviet torpedoes with nuclear warheads (due to the difference in size, speed, evolution of anti-submarine warfare systems), the Americans will be ready for such a scenario (after all, they were algorithmically preparing to repel an attack by torpedoes with nuclear warheads?), and finally, as it approaches, the Poseidon will be forced to rise, since it is clear that an explosion at great depth reduces the lethality radius. Given the speed, the Poseidon will be forced to rise in advance, in other words, it will not be at some fantastic depths within the range of destruction by anti-torpedo systems (of any kind), purely physically.

As for the situational awareness of the P itself, this is definitely a weak point, since the P will have to aim somewhere, even given its considerable power. If in the case of stationary objects this is less of a problem, then in the case of the AUG it is a problem, since the AUG moves, maneuvers and will use various active means to detect the P. For example, means of creating false noise. How adequate the P will be in the event of such counteraction is a good question. Because from the same electronic warfare we know that it is not always necessary to directly shoot down a boar with a double-barreled shotgun, you can simply deceive it.

And finally - now we are talking about regular means, but "Poseidon" is a conditionally regular means (as well as "Armata", for example). We are evaluating some regular means of the Americans in counteracting the "conditionally regular". As you understand, they are not slobs there either, and as soon as they learned about P, ​​they began to develop various means of suppression in the form of new products and modifications. Considering that they ALREADY have very high-quality detection means and various platforms, for them counteracting P is not only developing, but also is not some kind of "fundamental problem".
This is just a technical task, nothing more.

[NakedMan]

Also, purely theoretically, I would have Poseidon approach the AUG unnoticed at low speed, and at a theoretically calculated distance from the target, release a communication buoy and perform targeting. And then attack at maximum speed with active maneuvers that make interception difficult. Considering the high power of the warhead, the enemy will not have time to evade. The warhead is protected and will also explode if the torpedo itself is damaged, which at close range will also cause some damage to the AUG.
If after the first Poseidon there is also a second one, then the enemy may have big problems.

[Dirty Liar]

This is just a technical task, nothing more.

A fiber optic reel, huh? If small drones can easily drag a reel for 15-20 km, what kind of reel can a Poseidon carry? And it doesn't smell like anything "brilliant" in terms of cost. But its effectiveness has been proven.

[Oldrover]

Then Poseidon's defeat will consist of defeating the cable, which greatly simplifies the enemy's task.

[spyder100]

1. In fact, anti-torpedoes are designed to engage maneuvering underwater targets, among other things. For this purpose, torpedoes launched from submarines have a remote control function and can be retargeted after launch. In addition, they are equipped with a seeker, which greatly simplifies the task of hitting such noisy targets. Probably, if Poseidon maneuvers, it will do so exclusively according to the program, or, in extreme cases, if it receives an active sonar transmission on the hull. If it does not, it is unlikely to "understand" that it has been detected.
2. What will prevent the US from returning nuclear warheads to ships when preparing to conduct combat operations (we believe that the war is already underway, since Poseidon is clearly not a first strike weapon)?
3. What will prevent the Americans, having introduced elements of the target's (Poseidon's) movement into the combat information and control system, from dropping a pair of depth charges with nuclear warheads at its bite with a certain lead?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

If the standard AUG means are not capable of detecting such a colossus, then they have been just playing around for about 50 years.

We still have to get to the AUG. The first to stand in the way of our Poseidon will be their Poseidons - R-8. And with their speed, there will be no problems with moving ahead on course and dropping PLATs to intercept on a collision course.

And yes, I would like to know - how will Poseidon detect anything around at 100 knots? And who will give the targeting instructions for the AUG attack?

[Knell wardenheart]

I have no inside information, so I reason purely empirically like this - combinations of some means are possible that allow receiving minimal external commands (from the same "Goliath" and similar ones) that set some correction of the area, as well as some means (hydroacoustics, for example) of approximate targeting within the area.
After launching from Belgorod to a certain area (where the AUG is, for example), I do not see any other solutions for more or less precise targeting. Both solutions are very limited, as is the positioning of the device itself - from which I make a cautious conclusion that Poseidon is poorly suited to combat AUGs in wartime, or its launch will have to be carried out at minimal distances (which also devalues ​​this).
Much could be based on expanded ideas about the progress over the past 20+ years in the field of long-wave transmission and reception, specifically the size of the receiving antenna, the volume of data that can be transmitted per second, taking into account movement and redundancy, reception depth, etc.
Perhaps correction in this way through the satellite-coordination center-long-wave-Poseidon connection can be operational, or maybe it's complete nonsense and a complete "forget it" - I don't know :-) Probably such things are generally quite secretive

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Knell Wardenheart

Much could be based on expanded ideas about the progress over the past 20+ years in the field of long-wave transmission and reception, specifically the size of the receiving antenna, the volume of data that can be transmitted per second, taking into account movement and redundancy, reception depth, etc.

You can't fool physics. The ability to receive at depth comes at the cost of epic antenna sizes and sluggish data transfer speeds.

[RVAPatriot]

And where is this speed in depth??? Like children....

[smart ass]

I knew another country prone to wunderwaffes...

[MichIs]

Let me guess - the USA and Hiroshima and Nagasaki? It seems like a good result - the Japs are still licking various body parts of the USA.

[FoBoss_VM]

Why does this torpedo need carriers if it has unlimited range? They can be launched from their bases. Given its stealth and size, it is guaranteed to overcome the submarine and reach its target. Belogrod is a huge, terribly noisy old submarine, which is a good target.

[Al manah]

Why does this torpedo need carriers if it has an unlimited range?

I will answer with quotes from the classics:

[faridg7]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Why does this torpedo need carriers if it has unlimited range? They can be launched from their bases. Considering its stealth and size, it is guaranteed to overcome the submarine and reach its target. Belogrod is a huge, terribly noisy old submarine, which is a good target.

The carrier is needed to bring the device to the launch point. Of course, it is possible to launch from the base, but in this case the "flight mission" for the device will be more complicated, which will require a lot of time to compose, check, and coordinate it. The task for the AI ​​should be simpler, so that it is feasible.
Well, what about the noise and old age, terribly noisy? It's not always bad when the noise from the submarine is terrifying

[FoBoss_VM]

Don't write nonsense 🤣 what flight task with difficulties?

[faridg7]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Don't write nonsense 🤣 what flight task with difficulties?

Will you send the underwater vehicle straight from the base to the target? Not along the fairways and passages in the barriers, not along the straits, but straight through all the banks and islands? Will the vehicle explode right at the base to the full depth or will it go at a depth of half a meter from the launch to the target? All this is a "flight mission". Do you know what the hydrographic service in the navy is?

[FoBoss_VM]

I know very well what a hydrographic service is. I am a career submarine officer and I see absolutely no problems in launching the device along all the fairways and passages because their coordinates are all known with an accuracy of up to half a meter. Thanks to the service you mentioned. Well, God bless it, you can see better from there of course.

[faridg7]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

I know very well what a hydrographic service is. I am a career submarine officer and I see absolutely no problems in launching the device along all the fairways and passages because their coordinates are all known with an accuracy of up to half a meter. Thanks to the service you mentioned. Well, God bless it, you can see better from there of course.

Well, how come you don’t accept that the underwater vehicle must somehow navigate the route (not under the control of a crew, like your submarine, but independently). Someone must create a program for the vehicle, enter the coordinates of the turning points, the depth of travel, the speed, or are you proposing to wall up the kamikaze navigator in this “Poseidon”?

[FoBoss_VM]

That is why Poseidon does not need any carrier. In principle, it can leave Magadan or Zavety Ilyicha and move quietly, as quietly as possible, covertly, to the point of location. And there is no need to make a fuss with carrier boats, which are quite easily detected and destroyed, along with the crews and all the Poseidons on board.

[faridg7]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

That is why Poseidon does not need any carrier. In principle, it can leave Magadan or Zavety Ilyicha and move quietly, as quietly as possible, covertly, to the point of location. And there is no need to make a fuss with carrier boats, which are quite easily detected and destroyed, along with the crews and all the Poseidons on board.

Ask yourself, if you need a carrier, can the device independently go through some complex route? Maybe the developers decided to simplify the task a little?

[NakedMan]

The bases can be covered by a preventive strike. And submarines on combat duty are God knows where and it is difficult for the enemy to destroy them simultaneously. Well, that's how it is supposed to be, but God knows how it is in reality.

[FoBoss_VM]

Well, you think it's the middle of nowhere, but the entire Pacific Ocean in the areas of combat deployment is listened to by the probable enemy, even since the prehistoric times of SOSUS, Zeus and Sea Spider. Especially the routes of our submarines' exits from Krasheninnikov, from the north of Kamchatka and to the southernmost Kuril Islands. So it will be very problematic to secretly bring Belgorod to the launch area, especially considering the fact that there is practically no ravine system on the Tof.

[RVAPatriot]

Why do you only take the Pacific Ocean??? No one has cancelled the Arctic

[Whowhy]

Low noise movement is incompatible with high speed in water. Cavitation begins somewhere around 140 km/h (and it doesn't matter what kind of propulsion is installed there), and this is already noise, one might say, throughout the entire Pacific Ocean.

[FoBoss_VM]

Why should he heat it up full? There's plenty of time. Let him go to the point and let him slap slowly, but on soft paws.

[Pablo Blade]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Belogrod is a huge, noisy old submarine that makes a good target.

2019 is very old?

[faridg7]

Quote from Pablo Blade

2019 is very old?

Well, the modern generation of people is like that. Recently I went to a store, looking for a case and protective glass for my smartphone, the seller's answer finished me off - "your model is too old, you won't find anything". I've been using my smartphone for 4 years.

[Alexey RA]

Quote from Pablo Blade

2019 is very old?

Laid down in 1992 according to a design from the early 80s. At the time of its conversion into a Poseidon carrier, it was 75% complete.

[Pablo Blade]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

Just for fun, google what year Belgorod was built.

I googled it. Does anyone have something fresher and more modern?

[FoBoss_VM]

What does 2019 have to do with it? Just for fun, google what year Belgorod was built.

[Soldatov V.]

I'm not against "Poseidon" but we also have the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea. To come up with something to shell all of Europe from the shore from Kronstadt and Kaliningrad.

[by land]

Such weapons already exist. For example, the RS-28. It is somehow unclear why a nuclear torpedo is needed when there is no real protection against a massive ICBM strike.

[Fisherman]

a nuclear torpedo washes away entire fleets, the whole point is in the tsunami....cooler than a nuclear strike to the point...water is not air - there is no guaranteed protection from it yet if there is a lot of it.

[Broad flag]

There's just a water hammer and face prints on the bulkheads. Polaroid, life-size.

[Oldrover]

If you cut the sturgeon, Poseidon won’t cause any tsunami. For a tsunami, shifts in lithospheric plates are needed, and there is energy in the thousands of Poseidons.

[faridg7]

From there, Iskander and Kalibr cover everything.

[Willy-V]

Well, who really thinks that it is possible to move underwater at high speed and silently?

[agond]

If we do not focus on the maximum speed of 100 knots, but talk about the most probable, let's assume 10-20 knots, then the power plant will be modest in size with natural circulation of the coolant and, in general, possibly quite quiet. In such conditions, detecting a device with the specified dimensions of 20x1.8 m should be orders of magnitude more difficult than detecting a submarine of normal size.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: agond

If we don’t focus on the maximum speed of 100 knots, but talk about the most probable, let’s assume 10-20 knots then

...we can forget about the fantasies of "defeat of the AUG". And there will be questions about using "Poseidons" against the shore - by the time they get there, everything will have been over for a month.

[Broad flag]

Have they already copied the acoustic profile of the field tests? Where did they get such knowledge!?

[isv000]

Poor aviks. There's so much stuff already prepared for these fat cows that they could all go gurgle in the first series of strikes. They were built to bomb the natives, but the husyaty showed that you're lying, you're fooling around, sending more than one for repairs. What if they had normal weapons?!

[sir Garry]

Poseidon (Status-6), in fact, is not intended to destroy AUGs. It should destroy coastal cities and other objects... Although.....

[Romeo]

I think the tactics of its use is sneaking up at maximum depth and minimum possible speed to the shoreline. And from there you can throw to the target at maximum speed, at the right moment.

[Voyager-1]

Yes, our land is full of wunderwaffe of dubious efficiency. Dear forum members, tell me where I can read about this product, analytics, calculations, modeling results, but only real ones and not ceremonial and dashing ones, like, "pew-pew and the world will crumble to dust."

[AC130 Gunship]

Firstly, nobody really knows anything about the so-called Poseidon, and therefore you can write whatever you want. There is a folding operator's seat, there is a mini-fridge and a TV in the cabin, etc.
Secondly, any modern torpedo is initially faster than a ship. Otherwise, they would be easy to dodge

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote: faridg7

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

That is why Poseidon does not need any carrier. In principle, it can leave Magadan or Zavety Ilyicha and move quietly, as quietly as possible, covertly, to the point of location. And there is no need to make a fuss with carrier boats, which are quite easily detected and destroyed, along with the crews and all the Poseidons on board.

Ask yourself, if you need a carrier, can the device independently go through some complex route? Maybe the developers decided to simplify the task a little?

The whole point is that without knowing the technical specifications and performance characteristics, you can guess and guess again. The Americans, for example, when they were given the opportunity to rummage through a stolen MiG-25, were surprised to note that they had previously had a much higher opinion of this very narrow-profile machine...

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote from: FoBoss_VM

That is why Poseidon does not need any carrier. In principle, it can leave Magadan or Zavety Ilyicha and move quietly, as quietly as possible, covertly, to the point of location. And there is no need to make a fuss with carrier boats, which are quite easily detected and destroyed, along with the crews and all the Poseidons on board.

Do you know how many kilometers long is the retractable antenna on aircraft repeaters for one-way communication with submarines? Doesn't it scare you that a dumb torpedo might either not understand the signal, or understand it incorrectly and sail in a completely different direction? Especially considering the 30-year lag in electronics today

[Alex_Kraus]

Do our geostrategists have enough soul to apply it?