Will China help us?

155mm Howitzer PCL-181

Arms problem

At present, none of the countries supporting the Russian special operation has dared to supply weapon to the front. With the exception of North Korea, which made a lot of efforts to liberate the Kursk region from Ukrainian terrorists. Brothers in arms helped out not only with personnel, but also with quite lethal weapons.

The role of Belarus in accompanying the special military operation is indicative. On the one hand, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and artillery our closest ally never appeared at the front. On the other hand, the Belarusian military industry is very closely connected with the Russian one, and it would be wrong to accuse Minsk of ignoring Russia's interests. MZKT chassis have been fighting for a very long time and quite well, and the component base of the high-tech sector of the military-industrial complex is to a large extent of Belarusian origin.

There is an alternative point of view on this situation. Russia could have avoided asking its Western neighbor for help, relying on its own resources. Why would Minsk take the initiative in this case? And secondly, few will be ready to offer their military-industrial complex products after Marshal Havtar demonstrated an impressive arsenal of the latest weapons from Russia in Benghazi, Libya. Dozens of BTR-82A, BMP-2M Berezhok, MT-LB, Smerch, Tor and about a hundred Spartak armored vehicles were spotted. One can only be happy for the domestic military-industrial complex, which manages to fully supply the front and arm foreign partners.

Easy танк ZLT-11

If the expansion of arms supplies from Belarus is not particularly interesting to the Kremlin, then the Chinese military-industrial complex is simply impossible to ignore. China, as a bona fide ally, is capable of saturating the Russian Army to the limit with modern military equipment and ammunition. To fill it up to the brim, so to speak. At the same time, China's own defense capability will not be shaken one iota. But this is not happening. There are several reasons at once.

The first is that China is seriously dependent on the American market, and is in a permanent economic war with the White House. They have been fighting for more than fifteen years. Whether Trump will be able to inflict serious damage with sanctions in the event of arms supplies from China to Russia is an open question. America itself cannot breathe without imports from the Celestial Empire - at a minimum, inflation after the economic escalation within the country will reach double-digit parameters. Trump is even now putting the gear in reverse. We are talking about a temporary reduction of duties announced by Washington by 12,5 times, and China in response is reducing them by five times. So far, the truce has been concluded for three months, and this is not the best news for Russia. Beijing in 2022 is in a precarious dynamic balance - there is no desire to abandon the Kremlin, and it is dangerous to completely break off relations with Washington. For now, the pendulum has swung in the direction of the Americans, and China's economic interests have become a priority. But this is not the only factor influencing the policy of our eastern neighbor.

Trump is preparing to shift his sphere of influence from the European theater to the southeastern one, that is, he is refocusing on Taiwan. The island is much more valuable to the Americans than Ukraine without any conditions. The Chinese leadership, for whom the Ukrainian crisis is beneficial to Russia, cannot help but understand this. The longer Trump's team flounders in it and the more money goes to the Zelensky regime, the less the US allies in the Pacific region will get. This is an important political factor that seriously influences Beijing's behavior. Strictly speaking, China's behavior can hardly be called truly allied. The allies do not supply the enemy with weapons systems, which have long been drones and components for them.

Laser vs. Drones - Low-Altitude Laser Defending System (LASS)

There are two points that inspire optimism. First, China has stopped selling Mavic to the Kyiv regime, which will complicate logistics a little. Drones will not disappear from the battlefield, they will just become a little more expensive. The second noteworthy point is that the Russian Army has acquired (so far, only a few) laser “drone-killers” Low-Altitude Laser Defending System (LASS). The weapon is seemingly non-lethal, but very necessary. One should not discount the unique opportunity to test new equipment in a real combat situation. Ideally, it is the Chinese who should pay Russia, and not the other way around. However, maybe that is the case.

Made in China

So, our ally has the second largest military-industrial complex in the world (after the American one), and it is not in a hurry to supply weapons to Russia. But everything can change quite quickly. Xi Jinping sensed that Trump is not shy about retreating, which in the East means weakness. Maybe Donald will back down and not turn on the sanctions switch? The question is still unanswered, but it does not prevent us from thinking about the prospects for a new stage of rapprochement between Moscow and Beijing.

There are currently more than a dozen military-industrial enterprises operating in China, with a combined capitalization exceeding $130 billion. Of greatest interest to the Russian Army are the products of concerns specializing in land-based equipment, primarily the famous NORINCO. It is worth starting with self-propelled artillery. The 105-mm ZTL-11 wheeled tanks could well be useful in the SVO, especially since the Russian military has repeatedly encountered them during joint exercises.

In the same line are the light 122-mm howitzers PLZ-07 and 155-mm PLZ-05. In Ukraine, the latter will have a real opportunity to prove in combat conditions the declared range of 50-60 km. Certain difficulties will arise with the appearance of a new caliber on the Russian side - NATO 155-mm. Of course, inconveniences are possible, but the enemy copes well with the wild zoo of standards, when even shells of the same caliber are not interchangeable on certain artillery models. It is impossible not to test the fairly new 155-mm wheeled howitzer PCL-181 on the SVO, which has no analogues in Russia yet. Domestic "Malva" and "Giatsint" are mounted on a much larger four-axle chassis.

The PLZ-05 with its 155mm barrel will complicate logistics at the front, but not critically.

155mm Howitzer PCL-181

There is a large range of MLRS in China and in decent quantities – calibers start from 107 mm and end with heavy products with 370 mm guides. In particular, the PHL-16 system can be equipped with modules with eight 370 mm guided rockets, or a pair of 750-mm Fire Dragon 480 tactical ballistic missiles. Such equipment in sufficient quantities will seriously relieve the Russian Aerospace Forces in certain areas, replacing the work of guided aerial bombs.

A noticeable, or better yet, multiple increase in the weight of an artillery salvo is one of the key tasks that can be solved by equipment bearing the Made in China mark.

The question of the demand for Chinese tanks remains open. On the one hand, the vehicles are formidable, on the other, the specifics of the air defense system have significantly reduced their role.

One cannot discount the large reserves of infantry fighting vehicles in China, manufactured under Soviet licenses - Type 86 in various modifications. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of such vehicles in China. They are suitable for deep modernization at Russian enterprises, as well as for "light tuning" in field repair battalions. Of course, modern armored vehicles of the PLA will find their place - wheeled IFVs ZBL-08 and ZSL-92B, tracked ZBD-04 and -04A.

There is never too much light armor - BMP ZBL-08

Beijing's organization of arms supplies to Russia also brings certain reputational bonuses. This is an excellent advertising campaign. Western countries have never bought and will not buy military equipment from China, but developing countries are quite ready. And it is very good to demonstrate real, not declared, efficiency. As a business idea, a win-win option.

From the very beginning, China has declared its commitment to a speedy peaceful end to the conflict. It is time to take the next step and bring the peace treaty closer with real actions. Large-scale arms supplies seem to be very appropriate here. If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

Comments

[Ross xnumx]

Will China help us?

Elisha: Will we fly on Gorynych?
Serpent Gorynych: Yeah, right, bring the saddle!

Victory has many fathers, but defeat is always an orphan...
As for the "suckers", even distant relatives reject them.

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

After what agreements was this determined? Ordinary trading partners and neighbors on the planet...

[Ilya-spb]

China won't help us. We have to cope on our own.

For China, we are fellow travelers who can still be cheated in trade.

[smart fellow]

Where do cotton and machine tools come from in Russia? The main problem in the production of shells in Europe is the lack of cotton needed to make propellant charges for shells. Russia produces 2-3 million large-caliber shells per year, i.e. more (for now) than the US and EU combined. China is the second largest cotton producer in the world after India, and the Central Asian republics are trying to stay out of the conflict and no one else will sell to Russia. The media reports that China supplies Russia with gunpowder, special chemicals, machine tools and equipment for at least 2 Russian military factories.
On the other hand, Moscow and Beijing have not concluded a military agreement and were not interested in it before. If it were not for the SVO, then a military alliance with China would never have been needed. It was necessary to think about it earlier. If China had started the SVO, then Russia would also formally have remained on the sidelines.

[Dedok]

You should have thought about this earlier.

thinking is not politicking...

[PROXOR]

and the Central Asian republics are trying to stay out of the conflict

And for this alone I would close the borders for entry into the Russian Federation. I would introduce draconian interest rates for transfers from Russia. But unfortunately, the bone-thin, uneducated politicians and degenerates only manage to "buy" loyalty, instead of forcing them to work for Russia. In this regard, Trump is acting much more correctly.

[English tarantas]

In this regard, Trump is acting much more correctly.

Donnie is there, grabbing his oldest allies by their indecent places and starting to bite the hand that fed him. He's heading straight for a second impeachment.
It works correctly)

[English tarantas]

The media reports that China supplies Russia with gunpowder, special chemicals, machine tools and equipment for at least 20 Russian military factories.

This means nothing to the author.
It's clearer to him that "they brought a tank."
From the same song that "lend-lease didn't change anything", "whoever has more tanks and planes is stronger" and so on.
And how much news and howling was there from the West that China should be subject to sanctions for supplying strategic goods and materials directly used in the North-Eastern Military District to the Russian Federation?

[Volkovets]

English tarantas

:"..."Brothers" Serbs are in NATO. If anyone doesn't remember..."

___ If anyone doesn't remember, it's you, sir.
When NATO bombed the Serbs in 99, they were not members of that organization.
But in 1994, EBN tried to attach Russia to the “partners,” but something didn’t work out and things went wrong.
Read the article in Arguments and Facts:
"The Secret of the Presidents. USA: Yeltsin asked Clinton to accept Russia into NATO":
https://aif.ru/society/history/sekret_prezidentov_ssha_elcin_prosil_klintona_prinyat_rossiyu_v_nato?from_inject=1

[English tarantas]

If anyone doesn't remember, it's you, sir.

Yes, I don't remember. That's why I removed the comment.
The Serbs applied to join NATO in 2014 and actively cooperated. But then they changed their minds and suddenly changed their tune, remembering 30 years later that they were bombed.

[Vlad2012]

You may be right, but gunpowder requires cellulose, which can be obtained in Russia from hemp, wood, and even grain. The USSR bought the technology for obtaining cellulose from wood before World War II, in Finland, and Romania used grain for gunpowder. The Finns are now increasing the production of gunpowder and TNT using their own raw materials. And their gunpowder is pretty good.

[smart fellow]

Probably it is more convenient, more profitable or better quality to make from cotton. It is like gasoline can be made from coal, but it is easier and cheaper to make from oil. I came across a note a few months ago about a Russian company developing an industrial method for producing cellulose for gunpowder from wood waste. I read that cotton varieties in Central Asia have short fiber and are worse in quality than, for example, cotton varieties in Egypt and the reason is that in tsarist Russia it was specially cultivated for the production of gunpowder.

[Peter1First]

In WWII we started making gunpowder not from cotton, but from wood cellulose, somewhere there was a message that they still do it. The question is about the quality of the final product - of course, cotton will be better, but for most tasks, wood will do! In addition, the same Western politicians "helped" China with the cotton deficit, having stirred up a protest against the "exploitation of poor Uyghurs in the cotton fields of the totalitarian regime", after which, as a lesson, China introduced a forced alternative - instead of cotton, it forced them to organize pig farms there /Uyghurs, like other Islamists, are very fond of pigs/... And as for Chinese weapons - I think that they will limit themselves to laser drones, since this is "white, fluffy, purely defensive and non-lethal", and they will not supply anything more formidable, citing counteraction to the escalation of the conflict.

[THE USSR.]

A true friend is known in need, a proverb for all times.

[Per se.]

If our galley "Victory" has lost the first two letters in its name, no stranger will be able to help. Here we must either change the vessel, or its crew, or, from the slaves on the galley, make free people, the masters of their ship, and return what was lost in name and essence.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: USSR.

A true friend is known in need, a proverb for all times.

in politics there are no friends... and in the case of such different countries as Russia and China - only temporary fellow travelers, acting from the concept of their own benefit...

[2al]

We have a large common border and therefore we are not only fellow travelers but also neighbors. The PRC closely monitors the situation in the Russian Federation, knows our sore points well and has influence on the situation in the Russian Federation. There is and will be assistance from the PRC, but it is metered and limited, the PRC will not supply weapons, but will take part in the "peacekeeping forces" - to separate the parties. For the PRC, this format is more than acceptable.

[Volkovets]

USSR:...A true friend is known in trouble...

____ Serbs will very much agree with you, remembering the NATO bombing of their country in 1999.
...... They had trouble - they had no friends with them.

[guest]

Quote: English tarantass

"Brothers" Serbs are members of NATO. If anyone doesn't remember.

They are not even members of the EU, although they are striving to join both of these Russophobic organizations.

[Mazunga]

in the amur region there are interesting movements with business, so everything is ahead0

[Alex777]

The article is, overall, provocative. With a sketch...
And the "morally unstable" took up the idea.
Help! We've come to this! We can't cope without China! CRAP.
We need shells of our calibers and barrels.
Drones and the fight against them are definitely something we need.
And we don’t need anything else ready-made from China.
China is going to fight itself. Let it prepare.
We have a military alliance with China, more than we already have.
Yes, absolutely not needed. China has its own interests
and we don’t need to fight for his interests for free.
We are not 404 on contract with the West. We take care of our own.

[Dmitry_Nemets]

Well, if we could cope without China, we wouldn’t buy bulletproof vests, helmets, communications equipment, buggies, drones and their components there. As well as many other things.

[Uncle lee]

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

But this question remains unanswered...

[Hole puncher]

Quote from Uncle Lee

But this question remains unanswered...

Oh well. Of course, it's hard to call us an ally, but we have support. The current situation is very advantageous for China, the weakening of the US and Europe automatically pushes the third world into China's arms. The only problem is that China doesn't need our victory, it needs to support military operations so that the EEC and US economies exhaust themselves on defense. We are between a rock and a hard place...

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Puncher

so that the economies of the EU and the US exhaust themselves on defense.

The EU yes, but how does the US exhaust itself with defense - receiving contracts for arms supplies to Europe, etc.? A strange way of exhaustion. In your comment - replace the word China with the US and everything will be just as fair. Both the US and China are, in principle, not against the "eternal" SVO, they earn money on it.. and a lot.. but the EU - loses..

[2al]

In trading, it is necessary to fix profits from time to time. China is currently in the black, but who knows what the intrigue between Trump and Putin - "peace in Ukraine" - will turn out to be. There may be losses as well.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: 2al

In trading, you need to take profits from time to time. China is currently winning

You are misinterpreting the situation. China is not run by businessmen. They are certainly not classic communists and have long since moved away from the source, but still, the financial side is not a priority for them. China needs global influence and it does not matter how many billions it will cost because the result is global power.

[alexoff]

Quote: Puncher

China needs global influence

China has all the influence: buy Chinese, sell us your assets, and also take out a loan from a Chinese bank. The Americans are quite openly harassing them from the sea, saying that they are going to fight, but are not ready yet. The Americans definitely have a strategy and they are sticking to it, and the Chinese are only targeting markets, there is no visible political influence behind them. When they started cutting off their Silk Road to the EU, zeroing out investments, the Chinese simply wiped their hands

[guest]

Quote: Puncher

We are between a rock and a hard place...

Well, we drove ourselves there in 1991. Although more likely back in 1985.

[Revolver]

Quote: Uncle Lee

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

But this question remains unanswered...

Well, how can there be no answer? Chinese banks do not violate the sanctions regime. And the fact that they no longer supply "mavics" directly to/from - there are no fewer of them there, they just gave some other conditionally Pakistani or Vietnamese a chance to profit from this, because the work of re-sticking "made in China" stickers to "made in Pakistan" should be paid for fairly by Western taxpayers. Or did someone believe that drones are now made in third countries? Whatever is done in our best of all possible worlds, everything is made in China.

[Cartographer]

Quote: Nagan

Quote: Uncle Lee

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

But this question remains unanswered...

Well, how can there be no answer? Chinese banks do not violate the sanctions regime. And the fact that they no longer supply "mavics" directly to/from - there are no fewer of them there, they just gave some other conditionally Pakistani or Vietnamese a chance to profit from this, because the work of re-sticking "made in China" stickers to "made in Pakistan" should be paid for fairly by Western taxpayers. Or did someone believe that drones are now made in third countries? Whatever is done in our best of all possible worlds, everything is made in China.

It is enough to open a company in Cambodia, obtain a license and import components.

[Dmitry_Nemets]

China has never supplied drones directly. It is a commercial product that is sold all over the world.

[fiberboard]

Yeah, that's quite an ally, he's about to grab the territory up to Lake Baikal. When I served in the SA in the KDVO, they clearly hammered this into us!

[ultimatesochi]

The army and navy will help us. The Tsar is good, but bad boyars will not help us. Measure seven times, cut once. How long do we have to hammer these elementary truths from our ancestors into our Russian heads to start using them?!

[Saxahorse]

Quote: ultimatesochi

The army and navy will help us.

That's exactly it... They started it themselves, and let the neighbor come and finish it? And they are also offended that the neighbor is not at all eager to clean up all this for us. What kind of infantilism.

[Alexander Odintsov]

Will China help us? North Korea has already helped. Who says that this is bad. The main thing is that they help themselves. So that they remember the times of the USSR and take something from there. When we helped everyone and were the second pole of the world.

[Volkovets]

ultimatesochi: "... truths from ancestors.... Measure seven times, cut once..."

--- Our ancestors also said this:
"A Russian man stands on three piles: maybe, maybe, somehow."

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Volkovets

--- Our ancestors also said this:
"A Russian man stands on three piles: maybe, maybe, somehow."

From the outside, it all looks something like this:

Russia is ruled directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists.

© Chief Director of Customs Duties of the Russian Empire and Chairman of the Commerce Board Johann Ernest (Sergey Khristoforovich) Minikh.

[Volkovets]

Alexey RA:Russia is controlled directly by the Lord God. Otherwise, it is impossible to imagine how this state still exists.

____ It is seen as a lesson to all nations that God’s commandments must be followed and what happens if they are not followed.

[Wildcat]

IMHO:
It is very profitable for China to buy resources cheaply and finally become number two in terms of "bad news".
Therefore, China is in no hurry to "reconcile" anyone anywhere; it is only trying to keep the situation "on a slow fire" and "within limits" so that it does not harm business.

China already "allows us to buy" a lot of necessary and super-necessary things (although the prices...), but it will not directly provide military equipment - there is a risk of running into "sanctions on importers of Chinese equipment" from the "main competitor, who is also a partner."

Something like that.

[fiberboard]

All hope is on China! We've come to this! Many thanks to Vladimir Vladimirovich!

[Per se.]

Quote: fiberboard

Thank you so much

There is a lot of capital behind him, with his own selfish interests, with dual-triple citizenship. Therefore, we have what we have, with puffed-up cheeks and a "red marker".

[turembo]

But not so long ago it was written about Chinese weapons, that they are complete crap, and at biathlons they laughed at the Chinese machine, and now they have set their sights on it, and they have some wishes. It's a shame, comrades, as soon as you erase the red stars from your equipment, so immediately ray-branding, you've screwed up everything you can, and now we're laying our eyes on other people's stars. Brace yourself! Russia will not forget you! Foreign countries will help us! (c) Classics of domestic politics already...

[Dedok]

But not so long ago they wrote about Chinese weapons, that they are complete crap, and at biathlons they laughed at the Chinese machine,

so for biathlons it's crap, but for war...
so those who wrote and write - they are not fighting, they are writing

[Vik_Vik]

I don't remember them laughing. But the fact that the Chinese were the only ones competing in biathlon in their own cars is a significant fact.

[Krasnodar]

Quote from turembo

at biathlons they laughed at the Chinese car,

And now we laugh at biathlons))

[Hole puncher]

One can only be happy for the domestic military-industrial complex, which manages to fully supply the front and arm foreign partners.

Sarcasm?

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

Where do the doubts come from? The fact that the DPRK opened its coffers is a decision by China. The DPRK is directly dependent on it and would not have given anything without its go-ahead. China will not transfer weapons to us directly, only through third parties like the DPRK. So there is reason for optimism.

[smart fellow]

The DPRK is not directly dependent on China. This is Western propaganda trying to impose such a point of view. The DPRK's foreign trade turnover with China is 80% of its total, but there is no political dependence. By the way, "uncle" Kim Jong-un, who is in fact just the aunt's husband, was shot, among other things, for leasing a coal and iron ore deposit in the DPRK to China for 50 years. Because of this, Beijing took offense and began to "roll the barrel" at Pyongyang. It proposed the toughest sanctions against the DPRK in the UN and at the same time protected its interests, since the UN sanctions banned the supply of rare earth metals from the DPRK, and China, as is known, is a monopolist here. According to experts, North Korea has deposits of rare earth elements on an international scale. The Korean Mineral Resources Corporation estimates the reserves in the range of 20 to 48 million tons. If the upper estimate is correct, the North could overtake China to become the world's No. 1 country in rare earth reserves. But even by the lower threshold, it is fourth in the world.
Unfortunately, the Russian Foreign Ministry considered the DPRK to be a zone of interest for China and voted for sanctions. As a result, the Pobeda project for gold mining in the DPRK by the Russian company Polyus for $25 billion was disrupted, since the new sanctions also prohibited gold exports from the DPRK. Under this same project, industrial exploration of rare earth metal deposits was to be carried out for joint mining and processing.
The DPRK's relations with China were restored under Trump, but even after that, during the COVID pandemic, Pyongyang cut off all relations with the outside world for 2 years, including with China, and did not "bother" with it. Life became more difficult, but during these years the DPRK achieved great success in the development of cruise and hypersonic missiles.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: smart fellow

Because of this, Beijing took offense and began to "roll the barrel" at Pyongyang.

Yin was young and hot-blooded, thought he was an independent person. The older brothers from Beijing showed him his place and he did not stick his neck out anymore. Now he does everything he is told because Comrade Xi is vigilant.

[smart fellow]

The world has long since stopped mentioning the youth of the North Korean leader. Kim Jong-un has a strong political position and authority within the country and in the world. Give an example that shows that Beijing showed Pyongyang "its place" and "Now he does everything he is told because Comrade Xi is vigilant." You are engaging in empty chatter.

[smart fellow]

I wrote it incorrectly, not Pyongyang to Beijing, but Beijing to Pyongyang. And in principle, Beijing, using its place in the UN Security Council, really showed the position of the DPRK in the modern world. But then the Chinese realized their mistake and improved relations with the Koreans, because both are great pragmatists.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

Give an example that shows that Beijing showed Pyongyang "his place" and "Now he does everything he is told because Comrade Xi is vigilant."

so they rushed to tell the media about it... what naivety... or do you think real politics is on TV? no... real politics is in hidden protocols, and on TV there is some part of it... which can be shown - without damage to the parties and agreed upon in advance...

[smart fellow]

Well, look, the DPRK has openly declared its support for Russia in its conflict with Ukraine since 2014 and to this day. China also has problems: Taiwan, Xinjiang and human rights in China, a trade war with the US. Have you ever seen in the media a mention of the DPRK declaring its support for China's position? About 10-15 years ago, Taiwanese media reported that Taiwanese military personnel visited the DPRK via China, where they were shown the operation of a submarine VNEU developed in the DPRK and were offered to sell the technology. Because of the US, the Taiwanese refused, but do you think the Koreans don't know China's position on Taiwan?
What do you think Pyongyang might do on orders from Beijing? I can't even think of anything theoretically.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

Well, look, the DPRK has openly declared its support for Russia in its conflict with Ukraine from 2014 to this day.

Quote: smart fellow

Have you seen any mention in the media that the DPRK has declared its support for China’s position?

why do they need to officially and energetically support each other? what bonuses will this bring them? absolutely none... but the fact that they will be identified as something identical - it may work out - they absolutely have no need for this...
otherwise, for example, now - everyone was shouting about the support of the Russian Federation - shells, etc. by China, because through the DPRK + it is still unknown what they are transporting to the Russian Federation in wagons - no one publishes invoices .. they have a very convenient quality - you can do through the DPRK what the PRC cannot afford .. and this is a wonderful quality of the DPRK - few countries have such a "helper" .. from the facts. the DPRK is completely dependent on the PRC and do you really think that the PRC are altruists and do not use this in any way? well, this is really somehow naive or something .. in the modern world there are no altruists ... and the DPRK for the PRC - roughly speaking, like South Ossetia for the Russian Federation - is also independent ... only better than South Ossetia, because it is not limited by the borders of "Georgia" and is recognized in the world ..

Quote: smart fellow

Taiwanese media reported that Taiwanese military via China visited the DPRK

doesn't it seem strange?
and regarding even more detailed specifics - do you think they will publish it in the media? No of course not.. but by analogy, then South Ossetia and Abkhazia are completely independent countries..

[smart fellow]

why do they need to officially and energetically support each other? what bonuses will this bring them? absolutely none... but the fact that they will be identified as something identical - it may work out - they absolutely have no need for this...

Why did the DPRK support Russia in 2014? The DPRK has an official military treaty with China from 1961, which Beijing, unlike Moscow, did not annul. No one hides this.

otherwise, for example, now - everyone was shouting about the support of the Russian Federation - shells, etc. by China, because through the DPRK + it is still unknown what they are transporting to the Russian Federation in wagons - no one publishes the invoices...

China strictly observes international laws, including UN sanctions, which prohibit the sale of weapons to the DPRK. Koreans can transport civilian products purchased from private companies across the border, but arms trafficking is under state control. China publishes customs reports every year, and the border areas are full of South Korean and American agents. It is almost impossible to hide large volumes of supplies.

Are the PRC altruists and don't use this in any way?

The DPRK is a buffer with the Americans. That is why the USSR and the PRC used to provide the DPRK with significant military and economic aid. Aid, that is, for free. Since the US withdrew nuclear weapons from South Korea, according to them, the role of the DPRK in this regard has practically disappeared.

doesn't it seem strange?

Well, of course they could go through Russia, but it is more convenient through China. Taiwanese freely visit China and the Chinese government welcomes/promotes this.

and regarding even more detailed specifics

Specifics in the form of deliveries of Chinese shells and weapons to Russia via the DPRK are nonsense, as I have already explained. It is interesting that 15 years ago, VO wrote that Pyongyang was carrying out Moscow's orders and probably believed it.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

Why did North Korea support Russia in 2014?

Why not? They have nothing to lose, and the benefits from the Russian Federation won't hurt

Quote: smart fellow

China strictly adheres to international laws, including UN sanctions, which prohibit the sale of weapons to the DPRK.

1. Why are you so sure? And you can sell not just weapons but their parts
2. about third-party control of the border. The state border between China and the DPRK. The length of the border is 1420 km. I think there are no more questions. It's like the border with South Ossetia - they control it with the help of agents, but for example, you can X-ray a closed carriage, and a container too. Even if we assume that there are agents there.
3. reports are published... yes, yes, reports are always reality...

Quote: smart fellow

The DPRK is a buffer with the Americans.

where is the buffer? and what good is it for China? but let it be so.. another plus to relations with the PRC..

Quote: smart fellow

Specifics in the form of deliveries of Chinese shells and weapons to Russia via the DPRK are nonsense, as I have already explained.

I didn't write it directly. And yes, your voicing is nonsense. The DPRK makes weapons with the help of the PRC, and other tricky things.. and then the DPRK transfers all of this to the Russian Federation. Naturally, no one is transporting Chinese shells directly. And no one is violating sanctions.

Quote: smart fellow

It’s interesting that 15 years ago, VO wrote that Pyongyang was carrying out Moscow’s orders and they probably believed it.

let's get to the point. A country depends on another by 80% and at the same time the one who supports it does not use it in any way for their own interests, besides, they themselves can do absolutely whatever they want without looking back at the Boss - is this what you are trying to prove?

[smart fellow]

Okay, let's get to the point and the specifics. The US demanded that China influence the DPRK to stop its nuclear missile program, otherwise they would put their THAAD battery in South Korea. Pyongyang refused, and China then proposed introducing the toughest sanctions in the UN against the DPRK. It was forbidden to trade in almost everything (iron ore, coal, oil, gold, rare earth metals and other metals, textiles, seafood) - the Chinese knew where to hit. Trade turnover between China and the DPRK fell to almost zero. The DPRK continued to develop its nuclear missile program. Here you have the specifics. However, the US still brought its THAAD battery to Korea, and when the Chinese realized that the Americans had brazenly deceived them, they restored their relations with the DPRK.

Why not? They have nothing to lose, and the benefits from the Russian Federation won't hurt

North Korea did not receive any benefits from recognizing Crimea, and after the start of ammunition supplies to Russia, the US restored the number of military exercises in South Korea, which were sharply reduced during Trump's first presidency, and even increased. And in the military exercises of the US and South Korea, the number of troops could be 300 South Koreans and several tens of thousands of Americans. The SVO began with exercises in Belarus and the total number of Russian troops was significantly lower. The US called this military pressure on the DPRK and the DPRK is forced to spend significant resources to prepare to repel a potential invasion, including partial mobilization. Everything is simple for you, but in reality it is not so.

[alexoff]

Quote: Level 2 Advisor

real in hidden protocols

Have you read these protocols? Maybe it's even worse there than in real life

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote from alexoff

Have you read these protocols? Maybe it's even worse there than in real life

for some reason it seems that they are hidden because it is better for people not to know about how it really is...

[Dedok]

Sorry The Russian Foreign Ministry considered, that the DPRK is a zone of interests of the PRC and voted for sanctions.

No, he didn't count, he just "went with the flow"

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

The DPRK's foreign trade turnover with China accounts for 80% of its total, but there is no political dependence.

and don't you think that it is impossible to be independent in reality, and not formally, from someone on whom you depend 80%? i.e. consider it completely... and so - yes.. different countries...

[smart fellow]

Economically, the DPRK depends on China, but politically Pyongyang does not depend on Beijing. Russia was economically dependent on the EU and the US, and only thanks to China, the severance of economic ties allowed it to survive smoothly. So it turns out that Moscow carried out the orders of the West, and now it carries out the orders of China?

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

Economically, the DPRK is dependent on China, but politically Pyongyang is not dependent on Beijing.

aha.. that is, China is the only "breadwinner", but the DPRK doesn't give a damn about its opinion.. well.. the opinion is clear.. apparently - the plant workers are also only economically dependent on the director, but they do whatever they want, and the director continues to pay them salaries?

Quote: smart fellow

Russia was economically dependent on the EU and the US, and only thanks to China did the severance of economic ties allow it to survive it smoothly.

no.. the Russian Federation has never been as dependent on the West as the DPRK is on the PRC.. the DPRK - NO ONE will take it on their balance sheet anymore, and the Russian Federation has options.. as it is - something to trade.. not a very good analogy..

Quote: smart fellow

and now he's following China's orders?

does not perform, but listens attentively... Yes, it's enough to put the Russian Federation and the DPRK on the same level - it's somehow embarrassing...

[smart fellow]

DPRK - NO ONE will take it on the balance sheet anymore

The DPRK does not receive free aid from China, but trades with China. Therefore, I do not understand the meaning of your words. The DPRK has options, it just needs to sacrifice its principles.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

North Korea has options

Which ones are better than China?

Quote: smart fellow

North Korea does not receive free aid from China, but trades with China.

well yeah.. ginseng with coal instead.. something like Cuba with the USSR.. not for free.. sugar and rum.. Cuba was also "independent" and even survived without the USSR, but until recently it lived - well, very poorly.. now - just poor.. and of course there is no talk of maintaining the largest army and missiles...
and about the plant director - why didn't you comment? An employee "independent" of the director - the most obvious analogy in my opinion.

[smart fellow]

Which ones are better than China?

A nuclear deal with the US to limit the missile and nuclear potential of the DPRK (unlike Iran, the Americans themselves do not believe in the complete renunciation of the DPRK's nuclear weapons) and the granting of a concession for the extraction of rare earth metals to South Korea, for which the US can make an exception, as with the free economic zone in Kaesong. Now, by the way, is a very suitable moment, since Trump is in power in the US, and the president of the Republic of Korea is a Democrat.
The trade turnover of the DPRK with China is now about $1 billion, before the sanctions it was over $6 billion. The potential for trade with the West is tens of billions of dollars a year. As a result of China's ban on the supply of rare earth metals to the US and the EU, it is planned to close automobile plants and companies are even proposing to move production to China. The sanctions do prohibit the export of rare earth metals from the DPRK, but as KBS recently reported, 62 tons of rare earth metals were supplied from the DPRK to China last year. The US does not comply with UN sanctions when it is advantageous for them, especially with Trump in power. Southerners generally complain that they have to transport raw materials across 3 seas, and the DPRK is called a natural storehouse. In addition to rare earth metals, the DPRK has large deposits of graphite, which is necessary for the production of traction batteries, and the world's largest deposits of magnesite - a raw material for the production of magnesium. 20 years ago, South Korea estimated the mineral deposits in the DPRK suitable for industrial development at $6 trillion.

and what about the plant director - why didn't you comment?

There is no director-employee relationship between North Korea and China. Where or in what did you see this?

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

The DPRK does not have a director-employee relationship with China.

China can survive without North Korea, but not the other way around.
the fact that North Korea can sell in theory is just a theory... in fact, no one will do it so brazenly until they change course - they don't have any exceptional resources worth anything else... just like they don't have anyone better than China... not in theory... the theory will end with the regime... the regime won't allow it... so there's no point in discussing this topic

[smart fellow]

You don't know the history of the issue, but you are trying to reason from your philistine point of view, where there are rich and poor, and the poor obey the rich, otherwise they will leave them without work and without money, or even send them to prison.
How do you think the southerners were able to estimate the value of minerals in the DPRK? It was a joint project of the Republic of Korea and the DPRK, in which the southerners sent geologists to the DPRK to estimate the deposits, but for political reasons it was stopped. The Kaesong Free Economic Zone on the border of the DPRK and the Republic of Korea was in operation - it was closed by the DPRK for political reasons. There were other projects, not on paper.
American military analysts propose recognizing the nuclear status of the DPRK because they admit that it is impossible to stop the development of the DPRK's nuclear missile program and already now, according to the admission of the head of NORAD, the DPRK most likely has enough intercontinental carriers to overcome the US missile defense system and the DPRK has thermonuclear warheads for its ICBMs, not to mention short- and medium-range missiles.
On the history of the issue. Even under Kim Jong-il, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright danced with him in Pyongyang and the US promised to supply 2 light-water reactors with a capacity of 1 GW in exchange for the cessation of the DPRK nuclear program, and at that time the DPRK did not yet have 3 types of ICBMs covering the entire territory of the US.
And an option without the West (USA). Currently, the DPRK and the Russian Federation have concluded agreements on the development of REE and other mineral extraction in the DPRK, and work on searching for oil and gas deposits should begin in the DPRK sections of the Yellow Sea oil shelf. In China, there is an oil and gas province on land and on the shelf in this area where oil and gas have been extracted in large quantities since the 60s to this day. In the last century, a Western company was searching for oil there, but after a year of exploration and considerable money spent, it simply left without saying goodbye (under pressure from the US).

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

You don't know the history of the issue, but you are trying to reason from your philistine point of view, where there are rich and poor, and the poor obey the rich, otherwise they will leave them without work and without money, or even send them to prison.
How do you think southerners were able to assess the value of minerals in the DPRK?

Have I ever argued that they have nothing to sell? You are writing again, and the whole comment is about "maybe if"..., and I am talking about what actually exists... and what may exist may not exist, unlike what already exists...

Quote: smart fellow

In the last century, a Western company was searching for oil there, but after a year of exploration and a lot of money spent, it simply left without saying goodbye (under pressure from the US).

that's it... i.e. it wasn't they who decided to sell or not to sell...

Quote: smart fellow

Currently, agreements have been concluded between the DPRK and the Russian Federation on the development of the extraction of rare earth metals and other minerals in the DPRK.

and again the theory, as of today..

[smart fellow]

and again the theory, as of today..

Agreements have already been reached.
Russia and North Korea agree to conduct joint offshore exploration
Source: https://neftegaz.ru/news/Geological-exploration/802934-rossiya-i-severnaya-koreya-dogovorilis-provedenii-sovmestnykh-grr-na-shelfe/

Russia and North Korea have reached an agreement on joint geological exploration of gold, rare earth minerals (REM) and hydrocarbon deposits on the continental shelf.

Source: https://www.ieie.su/events/another/20-11-23.1605.html

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: smart fellow

Agreements have already been reached.

agreements are not equal to mined metal.. Do you know that hundreds and thousands of agreements in history have remained on paper, I think? Is the difference between our positions really that I see in fact?

[smart fellow]

In fact, the DPRK may not realize its potential and become one of the most developed countries in the world anytime soon. The difference is in the understanding that this potential exists.
Now Russia can help with this by implementing joint projects for the extraction of minerals and opening its market to Korean products. But in general, all options are open.

[shocktrooper]

Well, you have a rather primitive understanding of politics. China "supports" the DPRK not out of the kindness of its heart, just as NATO supports Ukraine, and both of these countries understand this perfectly well and take full advantage of it. China simply cannot afford not to contain the DPRK, and Pyongyang understands this perfectly well and is ready to confront China on issues that are important to it - just look at their nuclear scam. How could a "puppet" create nuclear weapons for itself, although literally all of their neighbors were against it? They have a certain dependence on China, but China itself also depends on the existence of the DPRK and its presence as a buffer zone and potential ally against the pro-American bloc on its border, and the DPRK government understands this perfectly well.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: shocktrooper

The PRC also depends on the existence of the DPRK and its presence as a buffer zone and potential ally against the pro-American bloc on its border, and the DPRK government understands this very well.

of course they depend... just like a director depends on an employee who cannot be replaced... but the PRC can survive without the DPRK, but not vice versa... that's why they sometimes squabble, but the DPRK listens very much to the PRC, let's say... and vice versa - not so much... but they compromise - if it's not to their own detriment...

Quote: shocktrooper

How the "puppet" managed to create nuclear weapons for itself

and who told you that China didn't help? Why not? With this, the global weight of the "mini-we" has grown significantly.

[shocktrooper]

of course they depend... just like a director depends on an employee who cannot be replaced... but the PRC can survive without the DPRK, but not vice versa... that's why they sometimes squabble, but the DPRK listens very much to the PRC, let's say... and vice versa - not so much... but they compromise - if it's not to their own detriment...

Firstly, this worker has two jobs now, and before 2 there were even more, secondly, he can also quit, yes, it will be very bad and hungry there, but he will be able to live, and thirdly, since when did a hired worker become a puppet? A hired worker works for a salary for a customer, it is a mutually beneficial process and fantasizing about a master and a slave is stupid here. What compromises did the DPRK make for the sake of the PRC to its own detriment? What does he listen to there, tell me, don't keep me in suspense.

and who told you that China didn't help? Why not? With this, the global weight of the "mini-we" has grown significantly.

Experts on the DPRK have said so. Historical works have said so. But of course it is always easier to believe in all sorts of conspiracies and "it's obvious" theories with a superficial knowledge of the material. Or show where and how the PRC helped the DPRK in its nuclear program. The weight of the DPRK itself has grown there, which the PRC absolutely does not need, on the contrary, it needs the most obedient and dependent ally, and not an independent entity that, of course, listens to its neighbor, but there is no talk of any subordination. The owners of nuclear weapons do not like to share them with their satellites, that's a fact. It is too dangerous and unpredictable, that's why South Africa was cut off, and Israel, even almost 50 years later, still mentions its nuclear weapons on the sly, and Iran is being pressured so much.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: shocktrooper

secondly, he can also quit

and why? for what? for what better life?

Quote: shocktrooper

since when did the hired worker become a puppet

Well yes, in your opinion he has an opinion that everyone takes into account? Does the chief always listen to the worker?

Quote: shocktrooper

It's stupid to fantasize about a master and a slave here.

I wasn't fantasizing about a slave, was I? Only about, roughly speaking, a "kept woman"

Quote: shocktrooper

Tell me what he listens to there, don’t keep me in suspense.

I am not an official of the DPRK MFA... that's how it is... we look at the actions... the actions of the DPRK are clearly in the wake of the PRC, right?
Enough about superficiality.. Are you from the DPRK? I'll apologize right now for my short-sightedness.. If not, you are no better or smarter than me... The bottom line is, this is a question.. Why then does the PRC support the DPRK if the DPRK easily gives a damn about it? The answer to this question can be discussed

[shocktrooper]

In general, I already understood that you know nothing about the topic except your fantasies on the topic.

Why then does China support the DPRK if the DPRK can easily ignore it?

So that they don't have Americans deployed a couple of hundred kilometers from Beijing, but instead have a living and very dangerous shield that "sympathizes" with you, and not your opponent. For this, the Russian Federation even set up the SVO, invested a lot of money and effort in the CIS countries, desperately protested against NATO expansion, and you ask why. I've already written all this.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: shocktrooper

So that they don’t have Americans deployed a couple of hundred kilometers from Beijing

and can you think of the UK as being much further away? Besides, Beijing is much further than 200 km... let's do it this way... can you give a historical example of when, in a similar situation, a "front country" gives a damn about the one who feeds it the most?

Quote: shocktrooper

For this reason, the Russian Federation even organized the SVO

I don't think that this is the main reason... an offensive from the Baltics looks more promising, and the SVO doesn't concern them...

Quote: shocktrooper

A hired worker works for a salary for a customer, it is a mutually beneficial process and fantasizing about a master and a slave is stupid.

I meant that it is not the employee who decides where to go and what to do at work... more precisely, he decides something, but the strategy - what to do - is set by the director, and how to do it - the employee can decide for himself in some places... if the employee does not agree, he will be fired and they will look for another...

Quote: shocktrooper

Or show where and how China helped the DPRK in its nuclear program.

It is impossible to prove such things to the average person. But to assume that the DPRK managed without help in - well, a very complex technological aspect - is also strange.

Quote: shocktrooper

In general, I already understood that you know nothing about the topic except your fantasies on the topic.

Well, you haven't shown off any specific knowledge yet either...
I honestly don't really understand what the fuss is about? Are you trying to prove that the DPRK is behaving like a prostitute - receiving support and protection from her sugar daddy, but still not listening to him and walking around on her own as she pleases?

[shocktrooper]

and UK, can you think much further?

Yes, much further. And it is constantly under threat of a strike by the far from harmless forces of the DPRK. And they will not be able to capture the DPRK quickly, the DPRK is a wonderful thorn in the side of the USA-Taiwan-Japan-ROK, which distracts a lot of forces and greatly restricts freedom of maneuver.

a "front" country - it doesn't give a damn about the one who feeds it the most - can you give me some examples?

Yugoslavia, China in the 60s, Vietnam with its exit from China. Not to mention that there are no absolute analogies, and the Koreas themselves are very unique countries.

I don't think that this is the main reason... an offensive from the Baltics looks more promising, and the SVO doesn't concern them...

Firstly, the Balts were already in NATO, and Ukrainians not yet, secondly, are you seriously comparing the danger from the Baltic extinctions and a country with a population of 40 million people? Stop it, really.

It is impossible to prove such things to the average person. But to assume that the DPRK managed without help in - well, a very complex technological aspect - is also strange.

The only help from the communists is how they built a nuclear power plant in Yongbyon, allowed students to study "nuclear" specialties and forced them to sign the NPT. Unlike the PRC, no one gave them ready-made bombs, they did it all themselves, spitting on everything else, lost millions from hunger, but made their own bomb.

Are you trying to prove that the DPRK behaves like a prostitute - receiving support and protection from her sugar daddy, but still not listening to him and walking around on her own as she pleases?

Do you consider anyone who is not a weak-willed slave, but defends his interests, a profursetka? Well, that's your worldview, of course. Well, once again, the DPRK itself provides for both protection and maintenance, it is far from a helpless puppet, but of course it does not refuse extra help.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: shocktrooper

Do you consider anyone who is not a weak-willed slave, but defends his interests, a prostitute? Well, that's your worldview, of course.

you can only defend your rights normally when you are basically independent - yes, that's my worldview.. when you are very dependent on someone - it's hard to assert your rights, to put it mildly.. and if it is possible, then formally... as much as they will allow it... and you must agree - if it weren't for the military alliance with China - it's very likely that the DPRK would have a different system.. let me remind you, the USSR was much more powerful and not so dependent on one person - it was destroyed without military aggression..

Quote: shocktrooper

Unlike the PRC, no one gave them ready-made bombs, they did it all themselves, ignoring everything else, they lost millions from hunger, but they made their own bomb.

which first and foremost protects the regime... the population, compared to the communist USSR, is simply poor... and dying in the millions for the sake of a nuclear bomb... if it's so great there, let them open the borders for travel and let's see who's left there in a year...

Quote: shocktrooper

Firstly, the Balts were already in NATO, but the Ukrainians were not yet, and secondly, are you seriously comparing the danger from the Baltic dying out and a country with a population of 40 million people?

You were talking about a NATO attack, what does this have to do with the population of the countries? It is easier to attack NATO from the Baltics... and now the Scandinavians are there too... the fight against expansion turned out to be so-so, if that was the goal... considering that the Ukrainians with their territorial disputes would not have been accepted into NATO...

[shocktrooper]

You can only defend your rights normally when you are basically independent - that's my worldview... when you are very dependent on someone - it's hard to assert your rights, to put it mildly...

Incorrect, or rather very primitive. In the current world, everyone has long been dependent on each other, and very much so, even China and the United States are constrained on all sides by ties with each other and with their allies and opponents. Any "pumping of rights" is a whole combination of factors, how much you are dependent, how much you are needed, how much you need this "right", what you are ready to do for this, how principled or flexible the opponent is, and so on. Look at the tribes of Afghanistan, they are almost independent from the outside world - and what, is it good there?
What does the collapse of the USSR have to do with it? It's not clear at all. If this shows anything, it's that the DPRK turned out to be much more stable, having survived the wave of collapses of socialist countries without any particular problems.

which first and foremost protects the regime... the population, compared to the communist USSR, is simply poor... and dying in the millions for the sake of a nuclear bomb... if it's so great there, let them open the borders for travel and let's see who's left there in a year...

Yes, it's very, very bad there. Nevertheless, the regime and the country are alive and even developing and gaining quite some weight, including largely due to the atomic bomb. But what is this all about, what is the debate about? About where it's good to live? Or about the political will and freedom of decision-making of the DPRK leadership?

You were talking about a NATO attack, what does this have to do with the population of the countries? It is easier to attack NATO from the Baltics... and now the Scandinavians are there too... the fight against expansion turned out to be so-so, if that was the goal... considering that the Ukrainians with their territorial disputes would not have been accepted into NATO...

What does the population of a country that is now fighting, dying and killing our fighters on the front against us instead of NATO troops have to do with it? Excuse me, are you trolling with stupidity? Indeed, why do we and they need Ukraine. And as for how it turned out there - that's a completely different conversation, stop jumping from topic to topic, the conversation was initially about why it was necessary, and not about how everything turned out in reality.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: shocktrooper

Incorrect, or rather very primitive. In the current world, everyone has long been dependent on each other, and very dependent, even the same China and the USA are constrained on all sides by ties with each other and with their allies and opponents.

Unfortunately, due to my primitiveness and your genius, you missed my word

Quote: shocktrooper

only when you basically independent

I know very well that everyone depends on each other, but the US with China and the DPRK with the PRC, to put it mildly, is an unintelligent comparison for an example of dependence... much closer is the role of the US-Lithuania, for example... yes, Lithuania is independent and does something there, makes statements, even criticizes, but will never be against on fundamental issues...

Quote: shocktrooper

What does this have to do with the population of a country that is now fighting, dying and killing our fighters on the front against us instead of NATO troops, in the hundreds of thousands?

Quote: shocktrooper

the conversation was initially about why it was necessary, and not about how everything turned out in reality

Am I trolling? Okay, I'll quote your words at the beginning

Quote: shocktrooper

and instead there stood a living and very dangerous shield that "sympathizes" with you, and not your opponent.

a human shield is especially needed in the direction of the strike, a strike, as I said, is more advantageous and easier in another direction - the Baltics.. but an intermediate shield will not work there in any way, since there is already direct contact, so what does a shield in another place give? i.e. there is no great sense in this shield, as on the Korean Peninsula.. is this clearer to you, I hope? where in your original phrase was it discussed, about

Quote: shocktrooper

What does this have to do with the population of a country that is now fighting, dying and killing our fighters on the front against us instead of NATO troops, in the hundreds of thousands?

Can you tell me? I read something - only about a shield between enemies initially.. and I can be no worse than you at being sarcastic, mocking and communicating with a feeling of superiority over a stupid opponent.. so either let's communicate as equals - without making jokes about each other's mental abilities, probably due to your feeling of your genius over other "people" - or it's not worth it at all...

[shocktrooper]

China and the DPRK with the PRC, to put it mildly, is an unintelligent comparison for an example of dependence... much closer are the roles of the USA-Lithuania, for example... yes, Lithuania is independent and does something there, makes statements, even criticizes, but will never be against on fundamental issues...

No, not closer, at least because of nuclear weapons. If you really want analogies - Well, here's Pakistan-China. Is Pakistan a puppet of the PRC? Well, what's wrong with the example of the PRC with the USA? If right now these two countries break all ties - then yes, their economies will literally collapse, the countries will not fall apart, but the consequences for them will be horrific. If the PRC stops supporting the DPRK, then things will get much worse, but their country will not collapse either, they already experienced this in the 90s. It is no coincidence that the DPRK strives for independence in everything and it is quite capable of maintaining this independence at a fairly high level.

a human shield is especially needed in the direction of the strike, a strike, as I said, is more advantageous and easier in another direction - the Baltics.. but an intermediate shield will not work there at all, since there is already direct contact, so what does a shield in another place give? i.e. there is no great sense in this shield, as on the Korean Peninsula.. is this clearer to you, I hope?

You write that you are not trolling and then you write this. Why do you have only one direction of attack? In 41, the Germans also only started to attack Leningrad? Not to mention that the Balts are not so convenient for attack, the same infrastructure there is far from fire, and there is a good defensive line of Narva-Velikaya ahead. A human shield is needed everywhere, preferably from all sides, but the ideal, as we know, is unattainable. That is why everyone tries to have a ring of allies around themselves, so as not to end up looking like fools. Well, about China's shields - they can also be attacked from the south, why do you think it is actively climbing into Cambodia and Thailand, spending tons of resources to strengthen relations? There is always a point in a shield, then it is just a question of whether you have the resources to support this shield. Well, getting back to our sheep - Ukraine is not only a large production and feed base and population, it is also the left flank of Belarus and an outlet to the underbelly of the Balkans and Poland. Without Ukraine, Belarus with a flick of the wrist turns from a bridgehead into a potential cauldron, and instead of cutting off Suwalki and saving Kaliningrad, you are desperately defending yourself from the south. How can you claim that something like this is unimportant - I honestly don't understand.

where did your original phrase refer to?

Quote: shocktrooper
What does this have to do with the population of a country that is now fighting, dying and killing our fighters on the front against us instead of NATO troops, in the hundreds of thousands?

Can you tell me? I read something - only about a shield between enemies initially

Okay, I'll try to be polite. A human shield initially implies this, but since you either didn't understand it or are ignoring it, I'll spell it out for you. Or what do you even mean by a shield? If it doesn't protect you from the enemy, including military action, then what kind of shield is it?

[Magic archer]

China introduces new products every year. And we have what we have, there are no analogues, so they remained at parades. And instead of drawing conclusions from this, we are still marking time. And there are no improvements and none are expected. Unfortunately

[Revolver]

105mm ZTL-11 wheeled tanks may well be useful in the NVO

I can't even count how many times the French 105mm wheeled tanks AMX-10 RC were ridiculed here at VO. Are the Chinese really fundamentally better?

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: Nagan

Are Chinese ones really fundamentally better?

Of course it's better - they're not in the Armed Forces of Ukraine... and if they end up in the Armed Forces of Ukraine - they'll immediately get spoiled, according to many in the VO

[alexoff]

Quote: Nagan

Are Chinese ones really fundamentally better?

fundamentally better than loaves, fundamentally better than walking, fundamentally worse than T-90. The latter are apparently lacking

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

Thanks for the review. I'll add only one thing - the eastern neighbor is looking after only its own interests. For now we're on the same path, what will happen tomorrow...
On the other hand, his plans are clear and therefore predictable.
Well, somewhere like that.

[Soldatov V.]

If we form a symbiosis with China and really depend on each other, why not open factories to produce the military equipment and ammunition we need in China. Externally, it should look like it was made in Russia. Now Germany is trying to pull this trick with the Taurus in Ukraine. And we can do everything with China in a hushed manner. Another way is to make a Chinese lend-lease of military products to repel NATO aggression with the help of Ukraine against Russia, taking into account the weapons supplied to Ukraine, including personnel, intelligence, and guidance and control systems. You can also use intelligence from Chinese satellites on Ukraine, as NATO is doing with the help of American satellites for Ukraine.

[Ermak_415]

Why not open factories to produce the military equipment and ammunition we need in China.

Will not work.
Anyone who opens a production facility in China is obliged to transfer all information about the production facility as well as the technology of this production facility.
The Chinese government also has the right, in the event of the slightest hint of trouble, to simply take over production for its own needs.

[Soldatov V.]

The war is not forever, it will end and the factories will close.

[2 Level Advisor]

Quote: V.

If we and China form a symbiosis and really depend on each other, why not open factories to produce the military equipment and ammunition we need in China.

for the same reason - why are the drones in the Ukrainian Armed Forces Chinese? They can trade for their own benefit, but they don't need the risks and losses for the sake of the Russian Federation. Based on this, why should they make weapons for us and share data? Symbiosis is not always equivalent, Vladimir.. even more often than not - unequal in nature..

[tlauicol]

It is much easier for China to fight with us than with America. A tasty morsel and easy prey. It will not be able to use even a tenth of its weapons and forces against the USA, purely for geographical reasons

[smart fellow]

Some people probably also decided that it is easier to fight with Ukraine than with NATO. And they want to fight with Kazakhstan. Why? Because it is easier! Iron logic.

[Vladimir M]

At present, none of the countries supporting the Russian special operation has dared to supply weapons to the front. With the exception of North Korea....

Why did they "shamefully" forget about Iran, which helped us in the most difficult time for us.

The role of Belarus in accompanying the special military operation is indicative. On the one hand, the infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers and artillery of our closest ally never appeared at the front....

In fact, Belarus provided us with territory for a “march on Kyiv”, it is not correct to demand more from Belarus.
I think Lukashenko "crossed himself and lit a candle in church" a hundred times, that the Almighty saved him from participating in the SVO. On what day after the start of the SVO did the "begging for a deal" and "good will" begin? Having taken part in the SVO, Lukashenko would have to explain to "his people" all the "riddles" of the SVO...
As for China, China is not our ally, but a temporary fellow traveler, squeezing out the maximum "goodies" for itself.

[Lako]

Well, the author of the article probably doesn't know that at the beginning of the Second World War Belarus transferred more than 200 units of equipment from the NZ warehouses to Russia. Now it is forced to actively purchase Russian equipment and weapons itself. These include the BTR-82, MI-35 helicopters and SU-30 aircraft. Many enterprises in Belarus, which were not previously associated with the defense industry, have joined the work on the Russian defense order. But this is mainly the supply of components. As for China, its pragmatic policy is more beneficial for both Russia and especially Belarus than direct support for the Second World War. Under the current sanctions, I can't even imagine what would happen to the economies of our countries without China.

[Alex 1970]

Somehow the ends don't meet
domestic military-industrial complex, which manages to fully supply the front and arm foreign partners.
And right there
China, as a bona fide ally, is capable of saturating the Russian Army to the limit with modern military equipment and ammunition.
As they say, either take off the cross or put on pants. He should decide already. And China is not an ally, not at all.

[smart fellow]

Now China is an ally, but there are no eternal allies. If the opposition came to power in Belarus, Belarus would now support Ukraine. While Xi Jinping is in power, China supports the Russian Federation, but if another leader comes to power in China, everything could turn 180 degrees. Take Slovakia as an example. The Slovaks were jumping out of their pants trying to help Ukraine, but the new Prime Minister Fico turned the situation around.

[stels_07]

The Slovaks simply had nothing left to transfer, so they changed course.

[smart fellow]

Prime Minister Robert Fico said that Slovakia is not going to support Ukraine either financially or militarily. The previous leadership, on the contrary, declared support for Ukraine. And they would have found something to supply. For example, the 155-mm/45 Zuzana self-propelled guns and ammunition whose shelf life is ending.

[Volkovets]

What do you think, if the opposition came to power in Belarus, would there be exercises of the Russian and Belarusian Armed Forces with subsequent Russian Armed Forces’ air defense crossing of the Belarusian-Ukrainian border to Kyiv?
I somehow doubt it.

[Per se.]

It is time to take the next step and bring the peace treaty closer with real actions.

We optimized our military-industrial complex, as well as industry in general, now "foreign countries will help us". Not only that, all consumer goods are practically from China. Why can't we raise our own production to the level of a great country? Probably because oil and gas have become Russia's main allies for the bourgeoisie, "we'll buy the rest".

[Vadim S]

Somewhere here they quoted comments from the Chinese on footage of our burning planes, and the commentators there doubt whether they need such a careless ally! Like if we can't protect such a valuable strategic resource and are so careless about war, then why do they need us?! And like we are a weak empire that seems bigger than it is. These are the opinions of ordinary people. Unpleasant

[sodium20]

In 2025, China rewrote the equations of modern electronic warfare. China defended the self-esteem of a small country - Pakistan.

China has skillfully proven the credibility of their “core combat capabilities” in Pakistan. That is, tactical combat capabilities, strategic combat capabilities, and operational combat capabilities.

By destroying Rafael fighters; China-Pakistan "combined warfare" has destroyed the superiority, quality and hegemony of the European military industrial complex. China has proven that European aerospace assets are not invincible.

Russia-China military cooperation will significantly improve the "core combat capabilities" of both countries. This is a win-win scenario for both nations.

[Reader 2013]

Ahaha, how many minuses did the ultra-patriots give me 10 years ago when I wrote something unflattering about the Chinese, now they instantly changed their tune

[AdAstra]

Well, well, well, the Author is "Foreign countries will help us!" (c), yeah.

[dragon772]

It is doubtful that China will help with weapons. The DPRK helped.
ZTL-11 in Tundra, when your hands are straight, is a deadly wheeler.
The armament includes a tandem ATGM GP105 with 750mm penetration behind dynamic protection, range 5 km.
True, the caliber is 105mm NATO.

[roosei]

But we successfully destroyed our industry and sold it for scrap metal. "Thank you" to Yeltsin and Putin for this. I would like to remind readers when Putin announced import substitution? What has been done? What do domestically produced goods provide now?

[torbas41]

China will of course help, it will be faster for us to kick the bucket.

[Pavel57]

It's worth buying ships and transport aircraft from China. And lasers against drones.

[Adrey]

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.
As a result of which treaty did China suddenly become our ally?
The whole article is some kind of unsubstantiated "wet" dreams.

[maiman61]

Aha! They've got their hopes up! The Chinese will help, keep your mouth wide open. And when it gets bad for them, when the cockroaches start running, save them, help them!

[teron]

Did I miss something, China is our ally? Is that what they call it now?

[Gomunkul]

The author wonders whether China will help us. Now let's look at the numbers, as they say, where is the Russian Federation and where is China:

MOSCOW, March 17 - RIA Novosti. Russia ranked second in the world among leading arms exporters in 2024, having sold $13,75 billion in arms and military equipment (WME) abroad, according to a rating by the Center for Analysis of World Arms Trade (CAMTO), which RIA Novosti has obtained.
"The rankings were as follows: 1. USA - $42,329 billion (37,92% of world exports), 2. Russia - $13,75 billion (12,32%), 3. France - $7,698 billion (6,9%), 4. South Korea - $5,691 billion (5,10%), 5. Italy - $5,69 billion (5,10%), 6. Germany - $5,424 billion (4,86%), 7. Sweden - $4,254 billion (3,81%), 8. Israel - $4,163 billion (3,73%), 9. Norway - $3,293 billion (2,95%), 10. China - $3,216 billion (2,88%)," the ranking states.
The presented rating takes into account only commercial contracts for the supply of weapons and military equipment to foreign customers; it does not include gratuitous military aid that was provided and continues to be provided to Ukraine by the countries of the Western coalition.

[smart fellow]

China keeps its military technologies and does not offer, for example, the J-20 to anyone. It has only supplied the J-10 to Pakistan due to the superiority of the Indian Air Force and will not sell it to anyone else in the near future. China has sold frigates only to Pakistan, and sells corvettes to others. It builds destroyers and helicopter carriers only for itself. And so on.
Russia sold Su-57 to Algeria and is trying to persuade India; it sold S-400 to India and Turkey in addition to China.
China does not try to make money at the expense of its security and sells weapons not for profit, but to spread its influence. That is the whole reason why China occupies the honorable last place in the top ten.

[Gomunkul]

That's the whole reason why China occupies the honorable last place in the top ten.

I cited the figures only to show that the capabilities of the Russian Federation in military production are quite high compared to the PRC, so why ask for help from someone who is an order of magnitude lower in comparison to you.

China does not try to make money at the expense of its security and sells weapons not for profit, but to spread its influence.

China, like other countries, has always traded weapons and has never suffered from modesty. As they say, demand creates supply.

news.rambler.ru: China exports weapons to at least 53 countries. Among the largest buyers are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Myanmar. Almost 20% of Chinese weapons exports go to Africa.

[smart fellow]

is an order of magnitude lower

Rather the opposite, well of course not by an order of magnitude, but several times. Compare military budgets.

China, like other countries, has always traded weapons.

If you read my comment carefully, you would have noticed that I was talking about advanced types of weapons.

China exports weapons to at least 53 countries

For China, selling weapons is primarily about promoting its influence, not about making money.

[English tarantas]

At present, none of the countries supporting the Russian special operation has dared to supply weapons to the front.

Except for Koreans, of course)
Well, there's not one at all.
And Iran did not transfer the UAV technology.
And we don’t buy FPV parts or thermal imagers from China, and soldiers don’t buy armor plates from China, and no one buys Belarusian sights.
And Iran did not sell ammunition.
In general, I wonder why the hell Belarus should send equipment to the SVO? Why would they do that? Open a second front? Since when did they become so rich in equipment that they would give it to Russia? Will they take off their last shirt, but help their brother?
Is there any thought that Belarus is a good ally, acting as a buffer between Russia and NATO? Let's disarm Belarus. The Poles will only clap their hands.
And it is very interesting, what is it that China is capable of selling to Russia that we ourselves do not have? Equipment with null compatibility with Russian? Are you aware that modern Chinese technology is assembled from parts from NATO design bureaus?
Are you aware that if you bring in a 155mm howitzer, it’s not just a logistics problem, it’s a need to retrain the crew commanders, because it has other ballistic solution. The officers probably have nothing to do.
And what new can Chinese technology give, except a lot of trouble?
How are Chinese tanks better than ours? How are APCs better? And what's the point of a photo of a wheeled ZLT11? The USSR didn't give a damn about wheeled tanks. Where should our troops fit them into the regular structure? How should they be used? Do you know? As very expensive but extremely mediocre self-propelled artillery? Because you can't bring this thing to the front for direct fire.
We have an even better solution for this - T-54/55/62 from storage.
In general, the author is a writer, not a reader. It is not clear what the article is about.
Our allies supply us with weapons.
We buy what we really need and what we really lack. Parts, sights, ammunition.
The rest is nonsense.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: English tarantass

Equipment with zero compatibility with Russian equipment?

How compatible is the 170mm M1989 Koksan self-propelled gun?

[English tarantas]

We buy what we really need and what is really missing.

Koksan has no analogues among the existing artillery.
It was purchased to fill a niche in small quantities, as a special tool. Its narrow, limited tasks.
It is clear what the Koksanov battery will give. It is not clear what the 155mm howitzer battery will give, except for the headache of delivering individual ammunition to them.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: English tarantass

It is clear what the Koksanov battery will give. It is not clear what the 155mm howitzer battery will give, except for the headache of delivering individual ammunition to them.

But in my opinion you don't understand anything. That's why you write absolute nonsense. Besides howitzers, there are many things that could be borrowed. Because the USSR's reserves are not endless. And our industry can't handle it. And problems with the logistics of ammunition and repair parts are nothing at all. Because it's better to have equipment and weapons with logistics problems than not have them at all.

[English tarantas]

Because the USSR's reserves are not endless.

The USSR's reserves have long since run out.
The equipment in storage requires major repairs; the ammunition has expired its storage life.
All of this is being repaired and practically produced anew.

But our industry can't keep up.

What's behind these conclusions?

there are many things that could be borrowed.

For example, what? Buy 500 APCs from China? Why? Maybe it would be enough to use this money to refurbish our APCs from storage or buy new ones?
Where does this desire to “buy everything” come from?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: English tarantass

The USSR's reserves have long since run out.

No. They haven't run out. M-46 and T-54 are not what the modern Russian Federation does. The Tu-95MS that burned down recently are not the Russian Federation either.

Quote: English tarantass

What's behind these conclusions?

If it had been possible, we wouldn't have had to buy the same Mavics and Baofengs. And we wouldn't have to go on assaults in armored loaves.

Quote: English tarantass

For example, what? Buy 500 armored personnel carriers from China?

It's quite possible that it wouldn't hurt.

Quote: English tarantass

Maybe this money would be enough to capitalize on our armored personnel carriers from storage or to buy new ones?

And how long will it take to make all this? How long will it take to produce 500 APCs at our facilities?

[English tarantas]

No. They haven't run out. M-46 and T-54 are not what the modern Russian Federation does. The Tu-95MS that burned down recently are not the Russian Federation either.

A gun without shells is scrap metal.
Restoring a projectile means reloading it, the explosives and fuses are new. Powder charges as well.
A shell without explosives is scrap metal.
Equipment from storage requires major repairs. Either disassembly of some machines for cannibalism of spare parts, or restoration.
All this also requires production facilities, machines, electricity, and labor.
If in the DPR they were able to start up an IS-3 on a pedestal, this does not mean that when it is removed from storage it can also be used immediately, as they did in the USSR and started up.
Well, it would be very interesting to know about the quantity of such weapons from storage. Probably at least a thousand T-54s went into battle)...
Airplanes especially require constant and careful maintenance. In these Tu-95s, specifically from the Soviet one, probably only half of the airframe is left, and individual structural elements are not subject to loads.
Although both, most likely, have also been patched up, cleaned up, processed.

I wouldn't have to buy the same Mavics and Baofengs

And did I talk about UAVs? I did.
We don't make them here. They buy them. What we don't have, we don't have.
The author says that we need to buy everything in a row. Which is nonsense.
And the same missing components and weapons are purchased not out of thin air, but for money, which the Russian economy obviously produces.
Why we need to buy something that we produce in sufficient quantities is still not clear to me.
And what is missing, we are trying hard to replace with our own production. At the very least, to switch to assembly from components that we can start producing ourselves.
It’s hard and creaking, but progress is being made to replace those individual things that we don’t have.
The author thinks that to hell with all this, it’s time to buy a ZTZ-99.

And they wouldn’t go on assaults in armored loaves.

And then from that side they go on assaults in Namers.
They also travel in cars, on the roofs of tanks and on motorcycles.
The problem is that if an anti-tank weapon hits your car, neither a loaf nor a MaxPro will save you.
If we are going to create a well-armored vehicle for landing troops, we need to make an armored personnel carrier with armor protection at the level of a tank.
I don't remember any such things among the Chinese.

It's quite possible that it wouldn't hurt.

Why? Maybe it's worth buying our own armored personnel carriers for the same amount of money?
Do you have information that the production of armored personnel carriers in the Russian Federation does not meet the needs of the army and is not capable of meeting them?
Can I know where you got this from?
Or is this some kind of "obvious" knowledge for all "thinking" people?

And how long will they all do this?

And the Chinese are sitting right on their ready-made and loaded armored personnel carriers and thinking about how someone can buy them as quickly as possible?

How long will it take to produce 500 armored personnel carriers using our facilities?

It's not fundamentally longer than the Chinese.
And again, I wonder, how do you plan to operate Chinese APCs, which have absolutely nothing in common with domestic ones? Do you not take into account the time for retraining drivers, repairmen? What about the supply of spare parts? For domestic vehicles, there is always a stock of spare parts, at least you can also remove and overhaul spare parts from vehicles in storage. Spare parts for Chinese vehicles will also need to be brought from China to create a reserve.
What about the transfer of units from one area to another? Will it be necessary to purchase spare parts in quantities to create reserves in repair teams in all directions at once, in case of the transfer of units there on Chinese equipment?
It seems to me that you and the author have come up with a way to get hemorrhoids by purchasing equipment that is no better or worse than domestic equipment, but will cause a lot of trouble.
Is it worth building such strange schemes if it is easier to invest in purchasing and producing your own? Why buy from China what you have your own?

[Illanatol]

Quote: English Tarantas

The USSR's reserves have long since run out.
The equipment in storage requires major repairs; the ammunition has expired its storage life.
All of this is being repaired and practically produced anew.

No, they haven't run out, there's still plenty.
Some of the equipment (including aircraft) was sent into storage already in post-Soviet times (as part of the reduction agreements...).

Equipment from storage requires modernization in any case. Even if the old "filling" remains, it is outdated garbage, nothing more. Everything is cheaper than producing from scratch.

[SOLO55]

China has never fought anywhere with its weapons, by the way, how good should they be?

[English tarantas]

China has rarely fought with its own weapons, especially modern ones.
But those who buy weapons from China fight with them almost non-stop.

[mocnijogurt]

Quote: guest

Quote: English tarantass

"Brothers" Serbs are members of NATO. If anyone doesn't remember.

They are not even members of the EU, although they are striving to join both of these Russophobic organizations.

Serbia is not going to be part of NATO, in any case. That is not an option, it was never an option
Serbia is not so eager to join EU - population is against EU

[mad-max78]

Why should China help Russia, that's why, so that after Russia's victory over the West in Ukraine, the Americans could switch all their attention to China?

[Zaurbek]

On the other hand, China can supply us, without being obvious, some components and units. Like barrels for self-propelled guns and main battle tanks... and much more.

[solovyov-igor]

.....China as a bona fide ally is capable of saturating the Russian Army to the limit with modern military equipment and ammunition. To fill it up to the brim, so to speak..... And where did the Soviet military-industrial complex go anyway?

[helilelik]

The planes could have been delivered quietly, since they look identical.

[AC130 Gunship]

The author sees the situation exactly the opposite.
Russia has not had, does not have, and is unlikely to have any official agreement in the economic sphere with China. And even more so - on military cooperation.
The US had two 10-year direct agreements with China on mutually beneficial cooperation. The 2nd ended in 2018 and China is not at all against signing a 3rd. Trump is in the way, but he is not eternal.

Therefore, the most you can hope for from China is to buy their SKS carbines at retail. I have one :)

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote: smart fellow

Now China is an ally, but there are no eternal allies. If the opposition came to power in Belarus, Belarus would now support Ukraine. While Xi Jinping is in power, China supports the Russian Federation, but if another leader comes to power in China, everything could turn 180 degrees. Take Slovakia as an example. The Slovaks were jumping out of their pants trying to help Ukraine, but the new Prime Minister Fico turned the situation around.

Yeah. "Union of the Sword and the Plowshare." Have you seen any document on this topic? The fact that China allows its younger brother to hold, say, photo sessions in Kazan with smiles and handshakes means nothing at all.

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote: Volkovets

English tarantas

:"..."Brothers" Serbs are in NATO. If anyone doesn't remember..."

___ If anyone doesn't remember, it's you, sir.
When NATO bombed the Serbs in 99, they were not members of that organization.
But in 1994, EBN tried to attach Russia to the “partners,” but something didn’t work out and things went wrong.
Read the article in Arguments and Facts:
"The Secret of the Presidents. USA: Yeltsin asked Clinton to accept Russia into NATO":
https://aif.ru/society/history/sekret_prezidentov_ssha_elcin_prosil_klintona_prinyat_rossiyu_v_nato?from_inject=1

Well, Putin himself told the camera that he also asked.

[AC130 Gunship]

Quote: PROXOR

and the Central Asian republics are trying to stay out of the conflict

And for this alone I would close the borders for entry into the Russian Federation. I would introduce draconian interest rates for transfers from Russia. But unfortunately, the bone-thin, uneducated politicians and degenerates only manage to "buy" loyalty, instead of forcing them to work for Russia. In this regard, Trump is acting much more correctly.

That's why you are here on the forum and not in parliament ;)

[Dmitry Eon]

How did we get to such "mice"...that we are waiting for ground forces equipment from China...Back in 2011, the biggest fun of the Russian Ministry of Defense was the disposal of "excess equipment", in exactly these terms!
But seriously and to the point, it would be much more relevant for the Armed Forces to buy a couple of hundred J-10s with our own AL-31 engines as a serious counterweight to our NATO friends. For some reason, they think that the European jackal will just give us a peaceful life, but it turns out (what a surprise!) that peace has to be paid for...

[Salimi from Iran]

As long as there is a wolf named America and he rules the world, no one is anyone's ally, there is only the law of the jungle.

[Clone]

Yesterday I got into an argument with a liberal subject who, with unshakable confidence, declared that the USSR had been overextended solely because of exorbitant military spending... and now, he says, it is precisely because of the gigantic financial resources allocated to the Army that something similar could happen.
I couldn't reach the impudent white-ticket mug because the "conversation" took place virtually...
And it never occurred to the opponent that if we now had less weapons and equipment from the USSR, it would still be unknown how and where the line of combat contact with the Ukrainian Armed Forces would run.
It cannot be said that Serdyukov and his women's battalion were removed in time - it could have been done earlier - but we would have looked "good" if the implementation of the fleeting idea to buy tanks and other armored vehicles from Germany and other foreign "partners" had begun.
Yes, Korea is real, China to a certain extent are our allies, but what will happen in five or ten years, who will be at the head of the other “silent” and biding time states?
Conclusion - in the Russian Armed Forces everything should be of our own production... modern, strong, made of steel and in large quantities... so as not to look for generals to blame for the absence of something.

[Sergei Fonov]

In order for assistance from China to be more effective, Chinese advisers need to be invited to the Russian Federation; they are needed in industry, and especially in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB. There is no need to be afraid, because we have already had advisers from the USA, and bearers of state secrets are leaving the Russian Federation for the West for permanent residence. The recommendations of advisers must be taken seriously; they must perform certain functions, and not be wedding generals, to whom the blame for one or another mistake can always be shifted.

[Fangaro]

Will China help us or not?
Will I have to pay for the help?
And for this money, if you need to pay China, can you produce in Russia?
And for these amounts, which perhaps need to be paid to China, it is impossible to organize environmentalists who will find and destroy all the real estate of deputies, ministers, directors of services and departments of Ukraine?

[Illanatol]

If, of course, our ally is really our ally.

Of course, China is not our military ally. The DPRK - yes, a military agreement has been drawn up. China and the Russian Federation do not have a joint agreement. Trade, coordinate foreign policy - please, neither China nor the Russian Federation needs a joint military agreement. Why should we limit the freedom of foreign policy maneuver? We have a multi-vector policy.

[P]

Ally?))) One of the subjects of the RF/USA bargaining is the status of the RF in the future world conflict. In general, the Second World War began in exactly the same way, Spain, China, Czechoslovakia,

[Valyusha]

Such long articles are usually about nothing. There is a title of the article and from it one can say specifically - China has not helped us in any way, does not help and is not going to help. And there is no need to look for something to show your imagination that they are either helping or going to help. Stop justifying your desires. It is said: by their fruits you will know them. Do you see the fruits?

[wlshushi]

China has never supplied weapons to Russia's adversaries, while Russia sells a huge amount of weapons to China's adversaries. In this regard, the Russians have no moral right to make claims against China.

[wlshushi]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ch4y1M7RQ?t=4.4