Military Review

AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... Competition "Modern" (part-1)

57
Despite the fact that during the Second World War, submachine guns were quite widespread, and there were a lot of interesting developments, with the advent of the Kalashnikov assault rifle weapons forgotten and, as it turned out later, completely in vain. Even when it dawned on people that the gap in armament needed to be filled, since even AK models with a folding butt were far from elementary for everyone because of their size, they stubbornly did not want to return to machine guns. Why was there such a rather complicated question, to which it is impossible to give an exact answer? We can assume that the whole business rested on saving, which is the fastest and will be very close to the truth. After all, weapons need not only cartridges for their work, with what, and there were no problems with ammunition, weapons also need maintenance, which includes repairs, and when everything is built around one model, this whole thing is much cheaper. In addition, do not forget that the machine has both positive and negative qualities in front of the submachine gun. So, even from a very shortened version of the assault rifle, it is possible to conduct effective fire at the enemy at longer distances, because it is clear that at that time the compact version of the assault rifle was more preferable than a submachine gun. And only after its appearance and unreasonable distribution began to think about ricochets, and about the excess range of the bullet while maintaining significant kinetic energy. In the end, they returned to the submachine guns, but first came the AKS74U, which, incidentally, is referred to by individual experts as submachine guns, focusing on foreign classification. We will talk about AKS74U in this article.


First of all, a more compact weapon, rather than a full-sized machine gun, was needed by those who would simply be inconvenient to handle a large-sized handgun. Drivers, armored vehicles, artillery, supply troops, communications, and so on, need weapons, but its application against the enemy is not the main task. If for participating in combat in direct contact with the enemy, handguns are the main means of combat, for the rest they are more likely even self-defense weapons, or, more precisely, weapons just in case. Thus, it turns out that the necessary machine is quite light, relatively compact, but at the same time with the same efficiency as the larger counterparts, which is naturally impossible. In general, a compact version of the machine was needed and in 1973, the first requirements for a new weapon were made, which became the basis for the Modern contest.

Competition "Modern"

The competition for a new small-sized machine was quite large. Despite the fact that almost everyone was confident in the victory of the sample from Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov, many well-known designers took part in this competition. As in other contests, the Kalashnikov victory was predictable, primarily due to the fact that his version of the weapon was based on the full-size version of the machine, which meant no need to re-equip production, that is, reduce the cost of the weapon. Nevertheless, gunsmiths worked, someone hoped for a miracle, but basically all of this was done in order to build on the future, so to speak, to create a base that would be inherited by the new generation of designers.

AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... Competition "Modern" (part-1)The requirements for a small-sized machine gun, according to the terms of the competition, were quite tough and one could say impracticable for reliable and reliable weapons. Needless to say, the weapon had the ability to conduct both automatic and single fire. The weight of the machine should not exceed 2,2 kilogram, the length of the weapon should have been no more than 450 millimeters with a folded butt and 750 millimeters with a butt laid out. The target range was supposed to be 500 meters. The main hitch in these requirements were dimensions and weight, of course, plastic could be actively applied, but such a sample would obviously not have passed, even if it were ideal - too negative a relation to plastic in weapons at that time. The layout of the bull-pops was also not welcomed, although it could significantly reduce the dimensions of the weapon, while using the barrel of normal length, and a more comfortable retention would provide higher accuracy in maintaining automatic fire, and of course the weapon would have a number of drawbacks inherent in all the "bull dad". In general, although no one forbade the use of bullpup's layout, everyone understood that in such a layout the weapon would be guaranteed a failure in the competition.

Understanding in advance that the victory will be for the Kalashnikov model and that it is almost impossible to meet the required weight and dimensions, the majority of the designers participating in the competition did not really adhere to the established requirements. Let's try to get acquainted with the most interesting "rivals" AKS74U, suddenly there was something better than "Ksyush" and in order to save this sample we missed.

Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov's automatic machine - the small-sized MA machine

Evgeny Fedorovich started working on his submachine gun in 1975, the main “chip” of the weapon was the fact that polymers were widely used in it, despite the fact that they were viewed obliquely, although at the same time the topic was actively developed. So to say was a turning point in the active introduction of polymers in the design of weapons. The gunsmith decided to make his machine gun maximally saturated with plastic, so that even despite losing this sample in the competition, it is of particular value for the development of weapons business, since this sample proved that plastic and firearms are quite compatible, while the weapon itself is not does not suffer in reliability, strength and durability. However, earlier specimens proved this.

In order to make the introduction of plastic into the design of a plastic weapon maximal, Evgeny Fedorovich invented an original layout for the main elements of the weapon, which made it possible to almost completely “unload” the plastic parts of the machine, significantly increasing their service life, making it equal to the metal parts. The receiver box was naturally metal, the barrel was installed in it, and behind the barrel there was a shutter that moved along the guides located above it, so the shutter turned out to be “suspended” and in its movement did not contact the plastic in any of its positions. From the receiver was a metal butt, folding up, that is, the recoil energy also did not touch the plastic. The entire lower part of the machine was made of glass-filled polyamide AG-4В. In the same place, the trigger mechanism of the weapon was mounted in plastic, and the only metal part embedded in plastic was the ring through which the pin passed, fixing the entire assembly. The weak point of such a design can only be called the fact that when firing with a folded butt, without resting on the shoulder, the life of the weapon was sharply reduced, since in this case plastic took almost all the recoil energy to itself, passing its arrow through the handle of the weapon. This, in principle, could be quite easily solved by adding a couple of metal parts, strengthening the plastic handle and connecting it with the receiver, but this was not done, because without them the weapon exceeded the competitive limits in weight. In addition, the forearm of the weapon, which was also plastic, was associated only with a metal receiver, and this significantly increased the service life of the weapon even when firing without using a butt, while shooting, like in a movie, with one hand even now comes to my head , and then all the more.

The weapon turned out at the same time and interesting and it seems to be built according to the well-known scheme - automation, using the energy of powder gases withdrawn from the barrel. The barrel bore was locked with an 3 bolt when turning, the bolt carrier was not connected to the pusher. The trigger mechanism trigger, made a separate unit, allowed the maintenance of automatic and single fire. It is interesting that the trigger mechanism is made with the so-called “cockpit hammer” with a twisted combat spring, working in compression. This virtually eliminated friction between the bolt carrier and the hammer during its movement, and therefore extended the service life of the weapon. However, this is exactly what caused the first problems in testing weapons. When testing a small-sized MA in unfavorable conditions, in automatic fire mode, the weapon gave frequent failures, since the self-timer did not pull the trigger from a dead center and, accordingly, a shot did not occur. This required changes in the location of the parts of the trigger mechanism, and this was done several times until everything began to work properly. The reasons for the failure were that while moving the bolt carrier forward, it was necessary to spend energy to overcome the resistance of the compressed combat spring, while doing so only with the mass of the bolt carrier and the bolt of the weapon, accelerated by the return spring. So to ensure the operability of the machine, it was necessary to install a return spring of sufficient rigidity so that pressing the slide frame on the self-timer was sufficient to remove the trigger from the dead point. In turn, we should not forget that the pusher is not associated with the slide frame, because the more rapid movement of the latter could deform the pusher, which, of course, was unacceptable. It is clear that the separate pusher and bolt carrier take their roots from the SVD, but here, unlike the SVD, the length of the pusher is less, respectively, it is less elastic, which causes problems. In the end, the problem was solved, and a balance was found between the rigidity of the recoil spring and the durability of the pusher with a high weapon reliability.

Naturally, a lot of attention was paid during testing to the strength of plastic parts of weapons, so when testing for strength, it was revealed that the machine, thrown on the hold handle, bounces like a basketball, but there were no complaints about the strength. Actually, therefore, this sample can be identified as a weapon that proved to the Soviet military industry that “firearms” and plastic are quite compatible things. It was also noted separately that the machine turned out to be fairly flat, with no protruding parts, well, except maybe the shutter handle. This had a positive effect on both the carrying of weapons and their storage. Separately, the designer considered the laboriousness of manufacturing his own sample, which was even less than in the production of AK74, naturally with a well-established production.

The controls of the machine are quite interesting and worthy of special attention. The trigger, the shutter knob, the magazine latch are all understandable and familiar, but the fuse switch and the translator of fire modes are quite interesting. The switch itself is made with a small L-shaped part, it has three positions: “automatic fire”, “single fire” and “fuse”. The first two positions are not interesting in principle, but in their third position the switch location is not quite usual. So in a position that ensures the safety of the handling of weapons, the short part of the switch is located in such a way that it closes the “window” between the safety bracket and the trigger. This solution allows you to immediately determine whether the weapon is on the guard or not, which is quite convenient, since the shooter receives information as soon as he takes the weapon in his hands. The second end of the switch becomes in such a position that it closes the slot for the shutter handle, so that the shutter cannot move to its extreme rear position. But this is not all the interesting things in the controls. Fixing the folding butt is carried out by a rather large button located on the back of the machine; when pressed, the butt can be folded or unfolded. Interestingly, the butt itself does not increase the thickness of the weapon and does not affect the ease of holding or aiming in its folded form. The sights of the machine gun are made in the form of a fixed front sight and reversible diopter rear sight with aiming distances 300 and 500 meters. It is the rear sight that is the element that holds the metal and plastic of the automaton together from the back side. To disassemble the weapon during maintenance, it is necessary to rotate the rear anti-clockwise 90 degrees, which will make it possible to open the receiver, which rises up and gives access to the “inner world” of the MA small-sized machine gun.

The resulting sample slightly violated some of the points of the requirements of the Modern contest, however, even the winner did not fit into them. So the weight of the small-sized MA automaton designed by Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov was 2,5 kilograms without cartridges, despite the fact that polymers were widely used in it, which, by the way, also have weight. In length with a folded butt weapon also did not fit - 500 millimeters. With the butt spread out, the length of the machine was 735 millimeters, that is, 15 millimeters less than the required. The length of the barrel of the weapon was equal to 212 millimeters, so it was possible not to dream about really aiming shooting at 500 meters, but it wasn’t even the design of a sniper rifle. The rate of automatic fire was 800 shots per minute, which I probably would have even considered negative qualities. The rate of fire is not so high that there is a tangible advantage in accuracy when shooting from unstable positions, but at the same time it differs significantly from the usual 600 shots per minute, of course, you can get used to it, but nonetheless. It feeds weapons from detachable magazines with a capacity of 30 5,45x39 cartridges from AK74.

By the time of full completion of work on the small-sized MA of the Dragunov design, the decision was made to adopt AKS74U, however, the designer had completed his work, creating, in the end, a reliable and interesting model, ready for serial production, which is worthy of respect.

Automatic machine of Andrey Semenovich Konstantinov - small-sized machine AEK-958

On account of this gunsmith a huge number of a wide variety of weapons - from a sniper rifle to a machine gun, however, almost all of them were in the "losers" in all competitions. However, this does not mean that the designer’s weapon was bad; according to the results of the contests, it was often possible to find lines in the conclusions that spoke about the superiority of Andrei Semyonovich’s weapons, including superiority over the eternal winner of the Kalashnikov machine gun. It was thanks to the participation of such gunsmiths that more successful designers were forced to constantly improve their weapons so as not to simply “fly out” of the leaders. That is, it can be said that it was precisely such works that, as a result, turned out to be losers, moved the arms industry of the Soviet Union forward, and also replenished the base of designers with new solutions and knowledge. The gunsmith and the “Modern” competition did not bypass their attention by presenting their small-sized AEK-958 submachine gun, although very little is known about this sample.

Most likely, the well-known CA-958 automaton formed the basis of the AEK-006 automaton; however, due to its compact dimensions, the balanced automatics were not applicable to the small-sized automaton, at least this was not said anywhere, although little was said about this automaton at all. It is known that the weapon uses automation built according to the scheme with removal of powder gases from the barrel when the barrel is locked into two combat protrusions. The trigger hammer has the ability to conduct both single and automatic fire. The switch of weapon and fuse modes of operation is located on the right side, has three positions and is rather small in comparison with AK. The switch is located slightly in front of the hold handle. Also located on the right side and the shutter handle. Overall, the weapon didn’t stand out much, but it was the only sample that fit in terms of size and weight into the conditions of the competition, which is worthy of respect, since it was one of two machines that managed to meet the requirements.

Automatic machine Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov - small machine gun AG-043

Another version of the weapon presented at the Modern competition, which fit into the requirements, was Sergei Gavrilovich Simonov’s small-sized machine gun, under the designation AG-043. The weapon is also a little-known and a lot of data about it is not enough, but it was possible to dig up something. The weight of the Simonov machine gun was just 2,1 kilograms, the length of the weapon with the butt folded was only 42 centimeters, and with the unfolded 68 centimeters. Thus, it is not even desirable to call this weapon a machine gun, since many submachine guns have a large mass and size. Nevertheless, this sample was fed with 5,45x39 cartridges from stores from a Kalashnikov assault rifle and more than satisfied the accuracy of fire at short and medium distances. Here it should be noted that the gunsmith himself was already quite old at the time of the “Modern” competition, so apparently he adhered to strict rules and did not allow himself liberties like other designers. In my opinion, Sergey Gavrilovich managed to do the impossible, since it is simply impossible to put everything together in such small dimensions and with such weight, and in order to still work it is necessary to have not just talent, but a huge store of knowledge.

In general, the weapon was more than a classic in the location of controls, and if it were not for small dimensions, it would be the most ordinary sample. It is interesting that there is quite improbable information that this machine was nevertheless adopted for use, however, by the State Security Committee. True or not, at the moment someone is unlikely to respond, besides, the adoption of weapons does not mean that at least someone held the weapon in their hands, so that everyone can decide for himself, the KGB missed such an interesting one model of the machine, which can be worn hidden or not.

To be continued ... and not one.
Author:
Photos used:
weaponland.ru
Articles from this series:
AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... Competition "Modern" (part-1)
AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... TKB-0116 main competitor (part-2)
AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... (part-3)
AKS74U - to whom "Ksyusha", and to whom ... Further development (part-4)
57 comments
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  1. bunta
    bunta April 9 2013 08: 37 New
    +9
    Plus to the author for work. And one wish - when the article is about several samples, it is advisable to give a comparative table with the main parameters: weight, dimensions, barrel (threaded) length, the principle of automation and the method of locking the shutter, ballistic characteristics.
    1. scrabler
      April 9 2013 11: 43 New
      +4
      There will simply be 7 machines from the competition in separate parts, plus the "ksyusha" itself, if you could fit everything into one article, it would be logical to make such a table, but the article would then be oh-oh, what a volume smile
    2. nakaz
      nakaz April 9 2013 12: 52 New
      +2
      AG-043 was especially impressive. It is surprising that this model did not win the competition, an amazing model.
  2. Massik
    Massik April 9 2013 09: 00 New
    +7
    That is why, having created some kind of incomprehensible "puncher" for amers, they apply for a patent for it and even manage to release it, but this does not work for us laughing even if there were dead ends, but there would be a choice
  3. avt
    avt April 9 2013 09: 09 New
    +3
    The beginning is interesting, the topic too. We look forward to a good continuation.
    1. scrabler
      April 9 2013 09: 27 New
      +3
      And then) While in the idea of ​​3 article, but maybe more smile
  4. Seaman
    Seaman April 9 2013 09: 23 New
    +2
    Very interesting, I look forward to continuing. I have never read about these samples anywhere.
  5. scrabler
    April 9 2013 09: 34 New
    +3
    In general, I repeat a little bit already there was material with these machine guns in the context of small-sized weapons, but here I want to fully cover the topic of AKS74U, including competitors in the competition smile
  6. Gari
    Gari April 9 2013 09: 56 New
    +2
    Very interesting especially the automatic machine of Evgeny Fedorovich Dragunov - the small-sized automatic machine MA
    In 1975, use polymers.
    And in general about their developments, and then only about ultrasound, etc.
  7. Doctor Evil
    Doctor Evil April 9 2013 09: 59 New
    +2
    The Dragunov sample looks more ergonomic. Thank you for the article, I look forward to continuing.
  8. _KM_
    _KM_ April 9 2013 11: 32 New
    +3
    Simonov’s assault rifle was seen alive at the Central Military Command Center of the USSR. Surprised by ease and compactness.
  9. TRex
    TRex April 9 2013 11: 47 New
    +1
    "A weapon for solving personal problems ..." The topic is interesting and at the same time ungrateful. The absolute leader, of course, is M.T. Kalashnikov with his creations. If we have already begun, let's take a good excursion into all small-sized and less common weapons ... I myself once had to shoot from a revolver chambered for 9mm, they said "a promising development ... will be adopted by special forces ..." Where is he, what happened to him - I do not know. I would like to know about other samples: PP-90, Klin, Cypress. Thanks to the author. We are waiting for new publications.
  10. sniper
    sniper April 9 2013 13: 02 New
    +2
    Bravo, as always "+" !!! Thanks for the great article, I look forward to continuing! Good luck!
  11. gych
    gych April 9 2013 13: 34 New
    +1
    after the collapse of the USSR, there was a sea of ​​developments, small arms were no exception! let’s hope that once they are in demand and there will be funds to develop them! The licking over the hill did not go away
  12. Canep
    Canep April 9 2013 14: 28 New
    0
    The article is good, but our designers are depressing, couldn’t it be possible to develop something better than the AK-60 in 74 years, I won’t believe that the designers have translated, and that AK is the height of perfection. I suspect that the Defense Ministry is simply not investing in the development (or maybe blocking) of parallel samples of small arms. A good example of PM - after the war, on the basis of Walter, silence and calm were developed further, and by and large PM is suitable only to shoot himself.
    1. scrabler
      April 9 2013 15: 32 New
      +4
      A little later I will draw up a full-fledged version of the article on the last competition "Abakan", there is something to brag about wink In general, I want to go through all the contests, but you need to dig, but there is no excavator laughing
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 April 9 2013 18: 56 New
      +1
      I don’t know how and where, but in our army, after the first test firing on the terrain with bushes, the AK-74 was quickly returned to the warehouse, and people took only AKM on business trips, and instead of Makarov (they called him a donator laughing ) preferred Stechkin, good choice was hi
      1. Droid
        Droid April 9 2013 22: 08 New
        +2
        And if you consider that Stechkin uses a PM cartridge, then an automatic donut taker?
        And about the bushes.
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris April 10 2013 14: 07 New
          0
          APS trunk is one and a half times longer.
          1. Droid
            Droid April 10 2013 14: 41 New
            0
            And these one and a half times give +25 m / s.
            1. anomalocaris
              anomalocaris April 10 2013 14: 58 New
              0
              Something like this .. The most important difference between APS and PM is the handle. Still, Makarov’s handle isn’t so hot ...
  13. Sochi
    Sochi April 9 2013 15: 21 New
    +4
    And only after its appearance and unreasonable distribution, they began to think about ricochets, and about the excess range of the bullet while maintaining significant kinetic energy ........... In my opinion, the military did not care about these rebounds. These are police problems, and the machine was not made for them. They need a weapon less powerful, more compact. Hence, probably, the ears of Kalash critics grow ...
  14. ramsi
    ramsi April 9 2013 15: 37 New
    0
    I don’t understand what I mean
    1. scrabler
      April 9 2013 15: 50 New
      +2
      The point is that earlier weapons were accepted based on the results of competitions in which gunsmiths competed, and although everyone knew who would be the winner (Kalashnikov), these competitions were held and domestic weapons were developed, and the designers received a knowledge base and experience from the creation of such competitive samples. The article presents some of the machines that competed in the "Modern" competition with the AKS74U, aka "Ksyusha", aka "S..a". The very same series of articles will revolve around the AKS74U machine gun. Well, something like this, if it is not clear something we ask more specifically smile
      1. ramsi
        ramsi April 10 2013 05: 53 New
        0
        I'm sorry, this is not for you, it's just a euphemism for this - about this heap of junk
      2. bunta
        bunta April 10 2013 18: 07 New
        0
        Quote: scrabler
        according to the results of competitions in which gunsmiths competed and although everyone knew who would be the winner (Kalashnikov)

        Well, not really that dark. wink Take at least a story from a PC. In 58, military (!) Tests of the Nikitin and Sokolov machine gun were already underway, when the GAU asked Kalashnikov to join the competition. Moreover, according to Kalashnikov:
        The next morning, the first advice after a conversation with the representative of the GAU was held with me V.V. Krupin, my first assistant in all matters relating to the development of samples. I still doubted, it seemed to me that gunpowder could be wasted. In fact, the situation was such that I had practically no chance of success. And in GAU, judging by Deikin’s tone, they didn’t really believe that we could do much. For them, another thing was important: to push Nikitin and Sokolov to be active in eliminating the shortcomings identified during the tests.
        Everyone knows how this attempt to "push" Nikitin and Sokolov with their machine gun ended.
        1. ramsi
          ramsi April 10 2013 20: 56 New
          0
          I won’t argue about machine guns, in general - a useful weapon, but this -
          1. bunta
            bunta April 10 2013 21: 54 New
            0
            In the story with AK-74, too, not everything is so:

            “Somehow we received information that the Americans are switching to 5,56-mm caliber and, it seems, we should make the same weapon. I was categorically against it, because the negative sides of this caliber were too obvious for me. However, the military raised the question tough - you shouldn't give in to the Americans in any case. I remember that several letters were sent to my name with a warning: if you don’t take on a different model, I didn’t give up, took up a perimeter defense. I hear a competition was announced. Among the participants, as always - Tula arms plant, Kovrov plant, TsNIITOCHMASH (Klimovsk). And already when the threat became too obvious: development was leaving my hands - I stepped on the throat of my own position and had to deal with this issue "
            (c) M.T. Kalashnikov

            Next:
            In order to identify all the advantages and disadvantages of the new weapon, military tests were carried out in various climatic zones - in the 2th Guards Taman Motor Rifle Division, stationed in the Moscow Military District, and in the Motor Rifle Division in Ulan-Ude, Trans-Baikal Military District. Intense competition unfolded between old rivals - Kalashnikov and Konstantinov. The intense military tests conducted in the 1972 – 1973 years revealed the superiority of both samples over the standard 7,62-mm AKM assault rifle. The SA-006 exceeded the 5,45-mm Kalashnikov assault rifle in terms of accuracy of battle from unstable positions, but at the same time lost to it in mass, higher reloading force, and the complexity of manufacturing. However, despite the fact that the weapons of Konstantinov-Koksharov showed superiority over the Kalashnikov assault rifle in terms of firing efficiency, for reasons of continuity in production and operation, preference was again given to Mikhail Timofeevich and his AK-74.

            (c) A. Uzhanov "Mikhail Kalashnikov".
  15. sven27
    sven27 April 9 2013 15: 54 New
    +1
    Aftoru is a big plus, a good article
  16. marshes
    marshes April 9 2013 16: 03 New
    +3
    AKS 74 "Fist" ear-dream of the 21st Century. smile
    Thank you for the article, I did not know that other small-sized machines were also being developed.
  17. Ch0sen1
    Ch0sen1 April 9 2013 16: 15 New
    +2
    Interesting article, plus definitely smile
    Simonov’s assault rifle is especially attractive to me personally, I wonder how his reliability is compared to Kalashnikov’s?
  18. Ch0sen1
    Ch0sen1 April 9 2013 16: 19 New
    0
    Article + smile
    Interesting specimens, I personally like Simonov’s assault rifle, I wonder how his reliability is compared to Kalashnikov’s?
  19. Locksmith
    Locksmith April 9 2013 16: 44 New
    +5
    Quote: Canep
    A good example of PM - after the war, on the basis of Walter, silence and calm were developed further, and by and large PM is suitable only to shoot himself.

    I understand that the PM, that Walter only saw in the picture? The thought never crossed my mind, why is it our "Alpha", despite the huge number of all kinds of pistols, used the PM? PM is the ONLY pistol in the world that passes according to our tests without remarks, in the sense of shoving it into hectares ... but, freeze up to _50, piz ... hit it with a sledgehammer and shoot the clip without leaving, knocking out 45 points wink . Walter is a pistol in general, extremely capricious, although beautiful, and inside is ABSOLUTELY not like a PM, the only thing they have in common is a way of incomplete disassembly, but this is not even a Walter's idea.
    1. avt
      avt April 9 2013 17: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: Locksmith
      the gun that passes through our tests without comment, in the sense of being thrust into a ha .. but, freeze to _50, piz .. pull it with a sledgehammer and without leaving to shoot the clip, knocking out 45 points

      That is what it is good My acquaintance told me that on a business trip in Afghanistan he dropped to the dust on the road, there he was ankle-deep, he fumbled with his hand, picked it up and checked it. He’s shooting at least henna! Here the cartridge is weak, and there is no demolition, in general, as the popular wisdom says - it’s better to get out of the PM once than to miss the Glock twice.
    2. Canep
      Canep April 9 2013 18: 31 New
      0
      I held the PM in my hands and even disassembled them to the last detail, there are only 24 of them you can check. This is firstly, and secondly, I did not write that it was copied from Walter. Thirdly, in a warehouse in our division (I served in the army), 10 PM lay not subject to military repair, while we did not defend Stalingrad and did not take Berlin. Fifth, if you push it with a sledgehammer, then the bolt will jam completely, and most likely the body will break at the place where the trigger is installed. And about "Alpha" then when it was created they had no choice. Well, about accuracy, if you train for a long time, then of course there will be progress, but a simple summertime does not have time in the shooting range for 2-3 hours a day to spend 6 hours for him to sleep for happiness.
      1. aleshka
        aleshka April 9 2013 19: 16 New
        +2
        WHEN CREATED ALPHA THE CHOICE WAS, AND STECHKIN AND KOROVIN !!!! PM LIKE HAND WEAKLY HOLD
      2. Locksmith
        Locksmith April 10 2013 00: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Canep
        and secondly I did not write that it was copied from Walter

        Quote: Locksmith
        Quote: Canep
        A good example of PM - after the war, based on Walter developed

        And who wrote this ?? wink , the PM has an army cartridge of 290-330 joules, from 25 meters an inch water pipe right through - such a small hole, a Luger cartridge (almost all army pistols in the west are made for them, including our "Yarygin") 350-380 joules - the same pipe only a dent, in stopping power, is close, you can get 50 meters from an imported pistol, but it's pointless, it's not the same energy, but close up without a difference, but with a Makara in an imported bulletproof vest, the hole will be, that you agree unexpectedly and even unpleasantly. smile
    3. aleshka
      aleshka April 9 2013 19: 14 New
      0
      which Walter ??? PP or PPK?
  20. Vovka levka
    Vovka levka April 9 2013 17: 25 New
    +1
    The article is good, there are no questions.
    But as for me, the weakest point in all machines is the 5,45 mm cartridge. It was a hasty and unreasoned response to the American M16 with its 5,56 mm cartridge.
    1. Canep
      Canep April 9 2013 18: 10 New
      0
      The weight of ammunition (150 rounds) of caliber 7,62 is 2,4 kg, and of caliber 5,45 is 1,62 kg, the difference is 800 grams, or a can of stew. For a fighter, this is a powerful argument. Yes, and the machine itself is easier.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka April 9 2013 19: 16 New
        0
        And on this, all the advantages are over, and the disadvantages .........................
    2. Locksmith
      Locksmith April 10 2013 00: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Vovka Levka
      But as for me, the weakest point in all machines is the 5,45-mm cartridge.

      It was made to cripple manpower as much as possible — moreover, what happened to Amers, the bullet from M16 hitting the leg — 100% amputation, damn it, and 7.62 only a bone fracture! At home, the magazine is lying around with an article about this stupid cartridge, with roentgenograms-horror, the bullet itself scatters into small fragments, clogging the wound and crushes the bone into 10-15 cm-this is a year in the hospital, if you're lucky.
  21. bazilio
    bazilio April 9 2013 17: 26 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author, Cyril, as always in his repertoire)))
    That's what confused me
    "The aiming range was to be 500 meters. "
    It is clear that these are the desired indicators on the topic of Modern, but a distance of 500 m seems unlikely. I mean the range at which it is really aimed to hit the target. Even the elder brother AK74 with the same cartridge 5.45x39mm can not boast of satisfactory accuracy at distances over 300-350 m
    1. scrabler
      April 9 2013 17: 34 New
      +1
      Such were the requirements of the competition, the bullet then flies much further and nobody cares sad On the other hand, highly inflated demands are better than none at all.
      1. Canep
        Canep April 9 2013 17: 54 New
        +1
        Actually, I think the requirements should be real or a bit overpriced for the future. 500 meters is almost the limit for an assault rifle, and it’s too much for a machine gun. Ballistic customers, after all, do not require a rocket, so that on the moon they put a warhead in a radius of 20 m. And since one requirement does not pass, then the rest can be neglected.
  22. aleshka
    aleshka April 9 2013 19: 21 New
    +1
    THE WEAKEST PLACE OF AKSU-74 IS THE LOSS OF THE AIM BATTLE WHEN HEATING THE BARREL, WELL SIMPLY DISPUTED !!!!
    1. bunta
      bunta April 9 2013 20: 16 New
      0
      This is inherent in any of the similar samples. The mass of the barrel is less, faster and more heated.
  23. avt
    avt April 9 2013 20: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Alesha
    WHEN CREATED ALPHA THE CHOICE WAS,

    Not the right word.
  24. kirpich
    kirpich April 9 2013 20: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Alesha
    THE WEAKEST PLACE OF AKSU-74 IS THE LOSS OF THE AIM BATTLE WHEN HEATING THE BARREL, WELL SIMPLY DISPUTED !!!!


    And who forbids you to shoot with a cut-off of 2-3 shots? Or have you not been taught this?
  25. kirpich
    kirpich April 9 2013 20: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    Thirdly, in the warehouse in our division (I served in the army) 10 PM lay not subject to military repair


    Minesweeper, what kind of division is this, where in the WAREHOUSE there are 10 PM NOT SUITABLE FOR MILITARY REPAIR ???
  26. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 9 2013 20: 31 New
    0
    I look forward to continuing with interest! Where are the current sales tenders, in the days of the Union there was really a competition of ideas and designs of weapons.
  27. kirpich
    kirpich April 9 2013 20: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    . Well, as for accuracy, if you train for a long time, then of course there will be progress, but there isn’t any time for a simple fly in the dash for 2-3 hours a day to sleep for 6 hours for happiness.


    Who wants to seeks an opportunity, who does not want to seek an excuse. (Not my statement)

    My (IMHO) "If you want to live, train."
  28. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 9 2013 20: 38 New
    0
    Very interesting article.
    So AKSU became Bin Laden's favorite machine gun))
  29. Ilyukha
    Ilyukha April 9 2013 20: 41 New
    0
    By the way, the Dragunov sample of MA of something in disassembled form AR-18 "Armalite" painfully reminds. Not for nothing?
  30. kirpich
    kirpich April 9 2013 20: 44 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    the difference is 800 gr, or a can of stew


    In fact, a standard stew weighs about 400 (four hundred) grams.
    More precisely 383g. (According to GOST)
  31. Droid
    Droid April 9 2013 21: 17 New
    0
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    And on this, all the advantages are over, and the disadvantages .........................

    And what shortcomings do you name? Judging by the fact that, in addition to the mass of the cartridge, you did not see any advantages, I think that you’ll also say that the impossibility is to shoot through the bushes.
  32. Vovka levka
    Vovka levka April 9 2013 23: 12 New
    0
    You will call alleged impossibility to shoot through the bushes. [/ Quote]
    And the ability to shoot down spaceships of aliens in other galaxies.
  33. Droid
    Droid April 9 2013 23: 34 New
    0
    Quote: Vovka Levka

    And the ability to shoot down spaceships of aliens in other galaxies.

    Those. no flaws, you can not name?
    1. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka April 9 2013 23: 55 New
      0
      Quote "Judging by the fact that you did not see any advantages besides the mass of the cartridge, I think that you will also call a disadvantage the alleged impossibility to shoot through the bushes."
      I just deepened your statement, so to speak.
    2. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka April 10 2013 00: 05 New
      0
      The main disadvantage is the cartridge and the manufacturing quality of the AKS74U, especially the barrel.
      1. Locksmith
        Locksmith April 10 2013 00: 34 New
        0
        The quality has nothing to do with it - the cartridge is designed for a longer barrel, the gunpowder does not have time to burn out due to the short barrel and the barrel overheats unevenly heated gases strongly heat the chamber of the gas piston and, accordingly, the very end of the barrel, gas breakthrough increases, which exacerbates the bullet problem a little do not fall under the feet.
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka April 10 2013 13: 35 New
          0
          I am the same, under this cartridge you can’t do such an automaton, you can’t.
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris April 10 2013 15: 16 New
            0
            Yeah. Tell it to the Americans.
            1. Vovka levka
              Vovka levka April 10 2013 21: 45 New
              0
              And where are the Americans?
  34. Alikovo
    Alikovo April 10 2013 00: 38 New
    0
    ax74u and ma are somehow better
  35. PSih2097
    PSih2097 April 10 2013 01: 02 New
    0
    To whom is Ksenia, and to whom it is a "female member", the same is one of the names of this unit, as for me, Stechkin gave more ammunition in a tank and an aircraft, and at close distances up to 50 m. APS worked as it should ...
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 April 10 2013 01: 44 New
      0
      The problem is that only the flyers have increased the firing from the AKSU, the tank leaders do not, the air defense system also does not, so I consider either 9x18 APS or 9x39 SR-3M "Whirlwind"

  36. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 10 2013 02: 18 New
    0
    The shorty is good. Easy, manageable, though the dispersion would be reduced along with overheating of the plastic, otherwise "the smoke of the fatherland is sweet and obscures the eyes." And with the NSPU it is "krany", and I just want to put it on the cart. The main base of Kalashnikov will still be with us for a long time, in various interpretations, however, like the Americans Colt, I mean assault shortened rifles.
  37. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 10 2013 02: 23 New
    0
    With regards to ammunition, "Luger" would have gone ochchchchen.
  38. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 10 2013 02: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Locksmith
    The quality has nothing to do with it - the cartridge is designed for a longer barrel, the gunpowder does not have time to burn out due to the short barrel and the barrel overheats unevenly heated gases strongly heat the chamber of the gas piston and, accordingly, the very end of the barrel, gas breakthrough increases, which exacerbates the bullet problem a little do not fall under the feet.
    So we need to introduce another cartridge. But if not "Luger", then I think all the same good and "teteshny", undeservedly forgotten, but he has the best penetration, well, further 100-150 m why AKS74U shooting, this is a different type of weapon.
  39. Droid
    Droid April 10 2013 06: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    Quote "Judging by the fact that you did not see any advantages besides the mass of the cartridge, I think that you will also call a disadvantage the alleged impossibility to shoot through the bushes."
    I just deepened your statement, so to speak.

    Those. all the shortcomings are aliens who plow the Bolshoi Theater?
  40. Droid
    Droid April 10 2013 06: 22 New
    0
    Quote: PSih2097
    To whom is Ksenia, and to whom it is a "female member", the same is one of the names of this unit, as for me, Stechkin gave more ammunition in a tank and an aircraft, and at close distances up to 50 m. APS worked as it should ...

    Do you smoke bamboo at ranges over 50 m?
  41. Droid
    Droid April 10 2013 06: 25 New
    0
    Quote: PSih2097
    The problem is that only the flyers have increased the firing from the AKSU, the tank leaders do not, the air defense system also does not, so I consider either 9x18 APS or 9x39 SR-3M "Whirlwind"

    God forbid. From it, without a laser rangefinder and a ballistic calculator, you even get into your chest chest at a distance of ~ 200 m
  42. pinecone
    pinecone April 10 2013 06: 36 New
    0
    Thank you for the article. I liked (outwardly) the Dragunov assault rifle. A beautiful weapon.
  43. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 11 2013 01: 50 New
    0
    Quote: Locksmith
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    But as for me, the weakest point in all machines is the 5,45-mm cartridge.

    It was made to cripple manpower as much as possible — moreover, what happened to Amers, the bullet from M16 hitting the leg — 100% amputation, damn it, and 7.62 only a bone fracture! At home, the magazine is lying around with an article about this stupid cartridge, with roentgenograms-horror, the bullet itself scatters into small fragments, clogging the wound and crushes the bone into 10-15 cm-this is a year in the hospital, if you're lucky.
    At the beginning of the 80s, they were armed with a PO on the border (border with the PRC). I saw the "work" of the first bullet, with a shifted center of gravity. Hit a man in the stomach. FROM SOFT FABRICS !!! went up and pulled out under the shoulder blade. Inside is messy, not restoring by any surgeon! At the exit there is a hole with a fist. This is the "job" of the 5,45 bullet.
  44. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 11 2013 02: 14 New
    0
    Good day to the locksmith! I agree with your arguments, but partially. "Dragged" PM on permanent wear for over 25 years. During this time, I changed to a second, also new, lubricated, 2 clips on the rope. The rifling on the first barrel has worn off. I shot a lot: competitions, preparation for them, regular shooting, etc. Shot huge. From the shooting, the lining tightening bolt weakened. PM is good, although there are many complaints about it, this is a separate topic. But I want to focus on the Walters. If it's PPK or PP, then why do you forget that they have different CALIBER? 9 mm is our dear, and 6,35 for Walters. What comparison can there be. Another thing is P38. It's a MACHINE! Yes, a little old-fashioned, longer than the PM, but the punching and stopping one is in 2nd place after the TT with its excellent cartridge 7,62 * 25. It was not for nothing that in Germany (and not only) and after the Patriotic War until the 80s it was in service.
  45. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 11 2013 02: 27 New
    0
    Quote: TRex
    "A weapon for solving personal problems ..." The topic is interesting and at the same time ungrateful. The absolute leader, of course, is M.T. Kalashnikov with his creations. If we have already begun, let's take a good excursion into all small-sized and less common weapons ... I myself once had to shoot from a revolver chambered for 9mm, they said "a promising development ... will be adopted by special forces ..." Where is he, what happened to him - I do not know. I would like to know about other samples: PP-90, Klin, Cypress. Thanks to the author. We are waiting for new publications.
    If you are talking about such developments as "Cobalt" under 9 mm cartridge, then they were really prepared for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, special forces. But somehow he did not take root. They are damp in production, and other developments and products, it seems to me, overshadowed it. These developments are ready for discussion.
  46. aszzz888
    aszzz888 April 11 2013 02: 39 New
    0
    Quote: TRex
    "A weapon for solving personal problems ..." The topic is interesting and at the same time ungrateful. The absolute leader, of course, is M.T. Kalashnikov with his creations. If we have already begun, let's take a good excursion into all small-sized and less common weapons ... I myself once had to shoot from a revolver chambered for 9mm, they said "a promising development ... will be adopted by special forces ..." Where is he, what happened to him - I do not know. I would like to know about other samples: PP-90, Klin, Cypress. Thanks to the author. We are waiting for new publications.
    If you are talking about such developments as "Cobalt" under 9 mm cartridge, then they were really prepared for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, special forces. But somehow he did not take root. They are damp in production, and other developments and products, it seems to me, overshadowed it. These developments are ready for discussion.
  47. Andrey77
    Andrey77 April 11 2013 16: 50 New
    0
    Ksenia-Ksenia ... a plush girl ...
  48. stechkinmakarov
    stechkinmakarov April 23 2013 23: 57 New
    0

    The use of AKS74U in battle.
    1. bunta
      bunta April 24 2013 07: 06 New
      +1
      I did not know what a fellow countryman. Thanks for the info!