The Lie of the Norman Theory

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The Lie of the Norman Theory
Svyatoslav. Warriors of the North. Artist I. Ozhiganov


Distortion and destruction of True history


In the West, the authentic version has long been rewritten history. Every ordinary person, if he knows anything about history at all, knows for sure that Rus-Russia was founded by the Swedes. That they built Novgorod, Pskov, Kyiv and Vladimir. That they gave the "Russian savages" the ruling dynasty of the Rurikovichs, created the Russian state itself. That Rus was practically a Swedish colony, the Normans and Germans brought the "light of enlightenment" and culture to the Russians.



This is also well shown in such a great series as "Vikings". The West has learned very well how to create illusory worlds. Like in the Russian Ukraine-borderland, where they created the myth of Ukraine-Rus, attributing Russian history to the fictitious people of "Ukrainians".

It is enough to look at how right now in Britain the history of England is being rewritten in the mainstream of political correctness, tolerance, multiculturalism and racial diversity. When in scientific books they write in all seriousness that the British Isles were first inhabited by black people (Negroes), then they were displaced by Europeans. That all the best was created by blacks. All this is supported by means of mass brainwashing, such as TV series, where the main statesmen of England in different eras are blacks, Asians, etc.

Three or four centuries ago, Western and Eastern historiographers traced the Russians back to Japheth and Noah's grandson Scythian, and to Rus. The Rus-Russians were considered the most ancient people of Europe and Asia.

But German migrant historians (Bayer, Miller and Schlozer), who never learned Russian, arrived in the "young Russia" of Peter I and his heirs. Through their efforts, the "true" history of the Russian land was written.

The German migrants who settled well in the Russia of the Romanovs ("Rimskys"), surprisingly, found many local Russian followers who picked up the idea of ​​the "historical insolvency" of Russians and Slavs. And began to open the eyes of Russians and Europeans to the "true role" of German-Scandinavian culture and civilization on the "Slavic barbarians".

Thus, the Russian “classical (academic)” historical school was created, which cut out thousands of years of the history of the Rus in Europe and Asia, the history of Scythian Rus, the history of German-Vandal Rus (Vandal Rus'; Germanic Rus'). And the history of Russia began with the “Swede” Rurik and the baptism of Rus.

Norman Theory


The founders of the Norman theory reasoned simply: if three Germans and other Swedes were invited by the Romanovs to modernize Russia, then it was the same in the distant past. When the “wild Slavs who prayed to stumps” called the Vikings-Varangians to enlighten and restore order.

After all, the Viking brothers came to England and founded a kingdom among the "unreasonable" Britons, Scots, Angles and Saxons. The Viking Rollo came to Northern France with his retinue and created the Duchy of Normandy. The Varangian Russiero (Rus) arrived in Sicily and founded the Principality of Sicily and Naples.

And they actually came. Historical fact. The Varangians were invited, and they came as if they were their own people, as if they were related. Who? Clearly not the Swedes, who as a people formed in a later era.

Russian chronicles say it directly:

Rus, Slovenes and Chud decided... and sent across the sea to the Varangians, to Rus; for the Varangians called Rus, as these Druze are called Swedes, Ourmans, Englishmen, and Goths...

That is, for the establishment of order (law), the Rus, the Ilmen Slovenes and the White-eyed Chud turned not to the Swedes and Germans, who did not exist in the 9th century AD, but to specific Rus.

They called upon Rus, the Rus. They called upon their own, those they knew, with a common language, faith and traditions. At the same time, the Varangians-Rus behaved differently on Russian soil than in the lands of modern France or England, where a cruel war of extermination was being waged. The different behavior of the Varangians-Vikings in the West and in Rus is an obvious fact. The Rus came to Rus, and "for the language of Rus and the Slavs is one…" Everything is simple and natural!

It is also worth remembering that the word "Vikings" comes from the concept of "vik-ves" - "village, settlement". Accordingly, this is not an ethnonym, and an epithet. They are simply people from villages. The village and villages have long produced the best fighters, soldiers. Rural youth from Scandinavia, the Baltic (Varangian, Russian Sea) sought to serve at the court of the great Russian princes, were proud of such service, composed sagas-bylinas upon returning from military service and campaigns.

In Western Europe the situation was different. There the Rus-Varangians fought a life-and-death struggle. A struggle with the Vatican and its project of Christianization, assimilation and absorption of Russian Central and Northern Europe – “Drang nach Osten” (“Onslaught to the East”). The fiercest battle lasted for several centuries, and the Rus lost it, retreating to the east of Europe. The remaining Slavic-Russian clans were subjugated, Catholicized and assimilated.

It is also important to remember that "Norman" is not an ethnic term. It is purely geographical - it means "northern man".


"So you call the Varangians Rus, as our friends are called, and our friends are called Urmans, Englishmen, Foreigners and Goths, and so on.". "The Tale of Bygone Years", Ipatiev Chronicle, 1425th century (c. XNUMX)

"Northern People"


In the conditions of the Great Game (informational-ideological, political and military), the West cannot recognize that the Rus-Russians are the most ancient people of Europe and Asia, who already existed when there were no “ancient” Italians, French or Germans.

In order to distort the true history, they begin to invent fairy tales, stories about "wild barbarians" who crawled out of the swamps, about a mixture of Finno-Ugrians and Mongols who laid the foundation for the Russian people. That Rurik - Sokol was in fact Khrodrik, Khryorekh, etc. That his brother Sineus is, they say, not the gray-whiskered Russian Sivy, Sedoy, Siny Ushen, but "with his own kind." And that Truvor is not Truvor - a typical Slavic name from the series Yavor, Ivor, Suvor, Tudor, etc., but "with his faithful squad."

That "Rus" is not Rus at all, but "Rootsen-Ruotsi", and some local Finns called the Swedes-rowers "Rootsi". And the "unreasonable" Slavs, having heard this word, began to call themselves that. This absolute nonsense was endlessly replicated and became part of the Norman theory.

Although there were no Swedes or Finns at that time. And according to the research of J. Kron, the Finnish word "rootsi" in the 19th century meant "north", accordingly "ruotsi" - "these are "northern people", and not Swedes, as the Normanists are trying to convince us.

It got to the point that R. Skrynnikov, who was a loyal conductor of Marxism-Leninism in Soviet times, “changed his colors” by declaring that in the second half of the 9th – early 10th centuries “dozens of kings” (!) established themselves on the East European Plain and created “Norman Khaganates”. He called Prince Vladimir I Buldmir (although this is also a Slavic name). Rus' is the East European Normandy. Skrynnikov’s Rus' is backward and wild, while Scandinavia is advanced and developed. It is only unclear why the “civilized” Vikings called Rus' Gardarika, the Old City. And they considered it a special honor to serve the Russian princes.

More moderate Normanists write that even though there were no Swedes at that time (the Swedish people were formed no earlier than the 16th-17th centuries), Russian chroniclers meant the ancestors of the Swedes by the Swedes. But the word "Svei" itself means "our own", and the ancestors of the Germans and Swedes were not called that. In addition, it was not the "Svei" who were called, but the Rus.

Thus, "Swedish Rus", like Norwegian, Danish or German, is all pure lies. Lies. Distortion of true history. There were no Swedes, Norwegians, Danes or Germans in the 8th-13th centuries. There was no German, Swedish or Norwegian language, they appeared much later. The Vikings spoke a mixture of the Rus language and local dialects.

But there was Rus. It spoke Russian (Old Russian, Old Russian, but Russian). Rus and Slavs did not need translators. One root, one language, one family, one faith. That is why no traces of the "Norman-Swedish" language remained in Rus.

At that time, Rus' lived all over Europe. In Scandinavia, on the shores of the Baltic and North Seas, all over Northern, Central and Southern Europe.

The real essence of the Norman problem, which is hushed up, is who lived then in Europe, in Scandinavia, in Germany, etc. Westerners, Eurocentrists and Normanists try in every way to close this question, a priori declaring that in Scandinavia, in general in Northern Europe, Scandinavians-Normans, Vikings, ethnic groups of the Germanic language family originally lived. That is, translating the ethnic picture of the modern world of the 17th-21st centuries to the 5th-13th centuries.

This is an obvious historical forgery, on which all of Normanism and the "classical" Germano-Roman school are built. There were no "Germans" in Northern Europe yet, there were Rus and closely related Baltic Slavs-Slovenes. The Rus founded Scandinavian Rus, Novgorod Rus, and Kievan Rus. Their direct relatives, half-blooded and speaking the same language brothers – the Eastern Rus (descendants of Scythian Rus, Ilmen Slovenes, Severians, Polyans, Drevlyans, Krivichi and other clans of Rus and Slavs, who bore their local (often toponymic) names – took direct part in this civilizational and state building.

We must remember that written by historians of the "classical" Romano-Germanic historical school, historiographers of the "new Russia" of the Romanovs, and later by historians of Marxism-Leninism, the history of Europe and the world is a myth. It is based on the Great Game (geopolitics) and local national fantasies. The real history of ancient and medieval Europe was different.

The Germanization and Christianization of Northern Europe was just beginning during the reign of Rurik. Normans, Vikings, Varangians - these are the clans of the Rus, the Baltic Slavs. Our ancestors, who spoke the Russian language and its dialects.

The essence of the ethnic history of Europe comes down to the fact that in Northern and Central Europe the original, indigenous inhabitants – the Rus – were assimilated by the incoming Romano-Germans during the last millennium. They partially retained their racial, anthropological appearance, but lost their language, traditions and faith.

In Eastern Europe, the core of the Rus superethnos was preserved. The Rus adopted in many ways the filial ethnic groups of the Balts, the White-eyed Chud (Finno-Ugrians), but preserved their language, their traditions, their faith (Russian paganism, having accepted the traditions of Christianity, became the Russian Orthodox faith, "Slavic Pravi"), racial characteristics of the Europeans and became Russians.
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  1. + 10
    30 May 2025 04: 10
    I will write only one thing - “everyone believes in their own truth.”
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +9
      30 May 2025 07: 49
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      I will write only one thing - “everyone believes in their own truth.”

      The author mentions the Vikings series in the article. If we compare the Rus and the Vikings in the series, the comparison will be in favor of the Rus. The Vikings have a city - a miserable village with slums, the Rus have Kyiv with high wooden walls, streets, two-three-story towers. The Vikings are armed with axes, occasionally swords, wooden shields, no chain mail, only a wall of shields and a heap-mala out of the line, no cavalry. The Rus have full-fledged senior and junior mounted squads, spear, sword, archery infantry march in orderly ranks behind their commanders, all in helmets, chain mail, with swords. Even the Rus had better ships than the Vikings.
      In the series, compared to the Rus, the Vikings look like a bunch of poor ragamuffins, not an army.
      So, the Vikings series confirmed the superiority of the developed rich Russians over the Viking rabble.
      1. 0
        12 August 2025 16: 22
        In the series, the leaders of the Rus are the same Normans, which is directly stated there. They just chose civilization and Christianity, and that's why it's cooler. In general, the series is a collection of sprawling cranberries about different peoples. I watched the season about Rus through facepalm, then I became interested in what else they distorted. It turned out that everything. Even the English were distorted completely and entirely.
    3. +3
      30 May 2025 08: 56
      I haven't laughed so hard in a long time) Zadornov's case continues laughing
      Author, remember - serfs do not have nationality, the same Russian nobles did not give a damn what nationality or religion their serfs were laughing so at the dawn of the formation of states on the Russian plain there were no nationalities. And so it was until the national revolutions and the acquisition of rights by all wink
      1. +5
        30 May 2025 10: 49
        Is the author trying to pass off his inventions as work?
        Where are the links to the original sources, the unmistakable ones, where are the cross-references, where is the team, where are the expeditions, where are the strict archival data, where is everything that claims to be a serious study???
        I can make up such nonsense in the kitchen in batches and sell it to such “historians”, my luggage will allow it. wassat
      2. +3
        30 May 2025 14: 55
        serfs have no nationality
        - And what happens to the "masters"? Any nationality is made up of different clans, often not connected to each other. And descendants of one clan often end up in different nations over time. A nation is a social and cultural community, not a genetic one.
        At the dawn of the formation of states on the Russian plain there were no nationalities
        - and at the time of the formation (and much later) of states in Europe, did nationalities exist? The so-called German nation "formed" very late.
        And about the Russian nobles: before Ivan the Terrible, there were many impoverished Rurikovichs among the free farmers. With the increase in taxes, many of them became serfs. On the other hand, many non-noble people were awarded the title of nobility for their services during the autocracy.
        And yes, the author has been stubbornly entertaining the public for a long time. And I can note that in the times of our distant ancestors - Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals, there were no blue-eyed blondes (at least, they had not yet been found).
      3. +3
        30 May 2025 15: 13
        Quote: Civil
        I haven't laughed so hard in a long time) Zadornov's case continues laughing
        Author, remember - serfs do not have nationality, the same Russian nobles did not give a damn what nationality or religion their serfs were laughing so at the dawn of the formation of states on the Russian plain there were no nationalities. And so it was until the national revolutions and the acquisition of rights by all wink


        An absolutely similar situation existed in Western Europe at the same time. Each city was an independent state, everyone fought against everyone. Remember the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre. This event did not end in Paris on one night, but continued for decades and not only Protestants were exterminated, but also Slavs. In fact, genocide. For some reason, no one pays attention to this and modestly closes their eyes.
      4. +1
        30 May 2025 21: 48
        Quote: Civil
        nationality or religion his serfs and at the dawn of the formation of states on the Russian plain there were no nationalities. And so it was right up until

        You laughed at both the article and Zadornov, well, you have the right.
        You claim that "there were no nationalities"
        Then answer one question - were there people on the Russian plain?
        Most likely you will not deny that it existed. Then what nationality was this people?
        Analogy - You were born, and your mom and dad argued for 5 days about what name to give you. Does this mean that for those 5 days you simply did not exist?
        Have I conveyed my idea clearly to you?
        1. 0
          29 July 2025 13: 00
          These were Slavic tribes that entered into an alliance with the Varangians against the Khazars and ultimately paved an alternative trade route to the Khazars along the Dnieper.
    4. AAK
      -2
      30 May 2025 15: 45
      In the teaching of school and university history, as indicated there - on the basis of chronicles and other written sources, a "Norman" trace can still be traced among the "Russian leadership" at the turn of the 9th-10th centuries AD - Rurik (most likely - Hrorig/Hrorik of Jutland), Oleg (Helg/Helgi), Igor (Ingvar) (further Svyatoslav, Vladimir and his "legitimate" brothers, Yaroslav, etc.), however, there is absolutely nothing about any real non-Norman, but purely Slavic "pre-Ryurik" ruler, if we do not count a certain rather mythical Gostomysl (mentioned in books only in allegory about the long ago of what happened - "... since the time of Gostomysl .." etc.). Even the campaign against Kyiv and the "replacement" of the likes of Askold and Dir who reigned there is nothing more than a "showdown between the older Norman boys" for spheres of influence (Kyiv itself, and most importantly - control over the "transit from the Varangians to the Greeks"), since the name Askold is just a "slaved" Haskuld, and Dir is more likely not a name, but a "rattle" from the Norman "Beast" or something similar, in general, the "harsh Norman guys" were replaced by even harsher ones... True, it is quite possible that "archive cleanup" is an invention of a much earlier period than Soviet history and that Vladimir, Yaroslav, etc. could well have given the order to get rid of "non-kosher" written sources, because if my memory serves me right, there are no genuine written testimonies in our historical literature earlier than the 11th century.
      1. 0
        30 May 2025 18: 37
        Quote: AAK
        Even the campaign against Kyiv and the "replacement" of the likes of Askold and Dir who reigned there is nothing more than a "showdown between the older Norman boys" over spheres of influence (Kyiv itself, and most importantly - control over the "transit from the Varangians to the Greeks"),


        This moment is kind of explainable, from Rurik's point of view. He sent his army to conquer Constantinople, and they sit in Kyiv and have fun with girls, irritating the local population. He had to restore order in the troops. That's all. Nevertheless, after the transfer of the capital to Kyiv and the establishment of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra, a local process of rewriting history and pulling the blanket from Novgorod to Kyiv, and then to Moscow began, which finally confused everything in our chronicles. Naturally, the Scandinavians, Germans, Poles, Swedes, etc. were also not asleep and helped to confuse history even more. As a result, we have what we have and we need to figure this out without Kyiv boys and Western historians, who certainly will not help, but only aggravate the problems, calling every comma into question.
        1. 0
          29 July 2025 13: 08
          Rurik knew nothing about any Askolds and Dir. The Varangians settled in towns wherever they could. The same Rogvolod in Polotsk, who is he to Rurik?? Oleg encountered Askold and Dir and gave them a lecture like you are not princes. Actually, Askold and Dir, according to the chronicle, came to their compatriots sailing to Constantinople and were killed.
      2. +1
        29 July 2025 13: 05
        Nothing surprising. The Varangians brought a squad. And they had a good fleet. But in the end, all the Varangians became Russified. Svyatoslav Igorevich is already purely Russian.
        Well, of course, no Swedes could have founded a state in Russia before they founded a state for themselves in Sweden.
        I wonder who Rogvolod was who ruled Polotsk?
        1. 0
          29 July 2025 13: 14
          At the same time, the Swedes actively promoted the Norman theory during the Time of Troubles, justifying their rights to the Russian throne after the Time of Troubles. At the same time, they slandered the Russified Rurikovichs one last time. "The Tale of the Defeat of Novgorod by Ivan the Terrible" was written at the time of the Swedish occupation of Novgorod during the Time of Troubles.
      3. +3
        31 July 2025 19: 29
        Quote: AAK
        Rurik (most likely Hrorig/Hrorik of Jutland), Oleg (Helg/Helgi), Igor (Ingvar) (further Svyatoslav, Vladimir and his "legitimate" brothers, Yaroslav, etc.), however

        I have a simple question for you - when did the following states appear on the political map of Europe: Rus', Norway, Sweden?
        As far as we know, the Russian state already existed, but the Norwegian and Swedish (read Norman) ones were not even in existence yet.
        And how, according to your logic, did the Normans build a state for us without having their own? The Normans took it from us by force. state France has a part of its territory, which received the name - Normandy. Where in Rus' is there something similar?
    5. 0
      31 May 2025 09: 56
      Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
      I will write only one thing - “everyone believes in their own truth.”

      I recognize my compatriot by his characteristic straddle position.
      1. 0
        29 July 2025 13: 11
        There is no splayfoot, why is everyone so concerned with the Norman theory? No one is worried that the Romanovs after Elizabeth Petrovna were essentially Germans, and that the dynasty was generally Oldenburg Holstein-Gottorp. Well, the Slavs were ruled by the Rurik dynasty, and the Tatars, for example, by the Genghisids. So what?
  2. + 25
    30 May 2025 04: 49
    It's a shame that a serious site is degenerating into such blatant free-for-all.

    Even the French, even in the period between the Franco-Prussian and Second World Wars (1870-1945), when they was for what not to like the Germans, did not deny the fact that the very name of their country - France - comes from the name of the Frankish tribe. This was a Germanic tribe, whose representatives (without any "call", of their own accord) came to their lands and created their state there, at the head of which they stood. And the titular nation - the Gauls - were not a Germanic, but a Celtic tribe. But the French never created any "denial of the German theory" on the grounds that they had civilizational squabbles with the direct descendants of the Germans.

    You don't choose your history. And "rewriting" it is useless. Hiding some facts and inventing others does not work. Because other countries, cultures, and civilizations will retain information about the real state of affairs, which will allow them to identify the falsification. Changing attitudes toward history is possible only in one way: by placing accents.

    But seriously: even if we admit (or not admit) that history was different, it cannot change the modern geopolitical situation. What difference does it make whether Rurik was a Slav, a Turk, a Japanese or a Cherokee Indian? What will change in the modern world if this is revealed?

    The view that history is "not like that" and "everything was different" is a manifestation of dark medieval thinking, the conviction that origins matter more than personal qualities. In the 20th century, the fact that the Vikings discovered America before Columbus was discovered and acknowledged. So what has changed in politics? How are the rights of discoverers doing there?

    What's the difference, whose family is more ancient and noble? Even the cultural and ideological confrontation in our time is conducted in such a way that Comparing ancestors is a sign of bad manners. What does it matter what your ancestors had if you don't measure up? Were your ancestors much greater and more powerful than they are thought to be? Congratulations: This means that you are only good for squandering their heritage. And where are they, these ancestors? Have they been dead for a long time? So their opinion is of no interest to anyone.

    It's a pity that the respected author doesn't realize this.
    1. +4
      30 May 2025 05: 57
      Quote: Pushkowed
      The view that history is "not like that" and "everything was different" is a manifestation of dark medieval thinking, the conviction that origins matter more than personal qualities. In the 20th century, the fact that the Vikings discovered America before Columbus was discovered and acknowledged. So what has changed in politics? How are the rights of discoverers doing there?

      That's right!
    2. + 13
      30 May 2025 05: 57
      It's a pity you don't see the difference... Let's look at the declared outline of events. The Franks came to the territory of the Roman Empire, founding their kingdom there. In England, the Scandinavians conquered the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. Rollo received Normandy from the French king as a fief, that is, he was given part of the kingdom. In southern Italy, the Normans grabbed part of the Byzantine provinces.

      That is, they came everywhere and everywhere to what was ready. Without creating anything, but simply using someone else's. And this is understandable - at home they themselves did not have states, but rather complex chiefdoms.

      But in Rus' - according to the Normanists - the situation is different. They say - it was the civilized Germans who brought statehood and order to the wild Slavs, which they had never known or heard of before. There you go. This is the danger of the Norman theory, and not the desire to measure themselves by something. Because it is from here that our dear Western partners make very far-reaching conclusions about us...
      1. + 13
        30 May 2025 06: 14
        Quote: paul3390
        Because it is from here that our dear Western partners make very far-reaching conclusions about us....
        What can we say about our dear Western "partners" and the "dust of centuries" if now our current government is boarding up the mausoleum with plywood and blaming the "red revolution" for everything. As if it weren't the Bolsheviks who saved Russia from the Yeltsins and Chubais of that era in pro-Western February and built a space and nuclear superpower, the potential of which is still used by today's fat cats and renegades.
        1. +8
          30 May 2025 11: 02
          What can we say about our dear Western “partners” and about the “dust of centuries” if now, our current government,covers the mausoleum with plywoodand
          It's all the fault of the "red revolution"
          .

          even if he is guilty, should we cut down references to the USSR from the manhole covers?
          and board up the Mausoleum with plywood?
          this is OUR history and we must accept it as it is...
      2. +9
        30 May 2025 06: 27
        But the Norman theory has its advantages. If the Swedes founded Rus', then they also lost to the Mongols later. And the Slavs have nothing to do with it. You can make claims for crooked management.
      3. +8
        30 May 2025 06: 40
        Quote: paul3390
        This is the danger of the Norman theory.
        The danger is to think that a theory can be dangerous, so get at it!

        And what's wrong with developing? If the tribal structure is outdated, and you urgently need to create your own statehood (because your neighbors already have it, which makes them a dangerous external threat) - what's wrong with spying on how they do it, and doing the same for yourself, only better (with an adjustment for local specifics)?

        Was it necessary to reinvent it ourselves, independently? Not the best option. Because a fool learns from his own mistakes, and a smart one – from others.

        Should I have gotten it before them? Especially not at all. Because history is not chosen.

        But how can this be done technically? How can we spy on it? Send emissaries who must infiltrate someone else's system of government to understand how it works, see it from the inside, and then run back and do the same thing at home? So they will run back, having taken good positions. there... It is easier to invite foreign specialists who already have the necessary experience, but who at the same time believe that they have not received at home there worthy positions, and offer them such positions already in our system. There is no need to worry that they will work for the enemy. Because power is the highest value of rulers ("It's better to be first in the village than sixth in the city"), and they will not exchange it for anything. Especially for handouts from the enemy.

        And in general, since borrowing the idea of ​​statehood became possible and ripe (and especially since it happened quickly and clearly), it means that society was sufficiently developed for this. The Americans, for example, do not hide the fact that statehood was brought to their land by the British, but then they selected for themselves. And they are even proud the brevity of its history, in which there was no place for monarchs and tyrants – this is an example of how the placement of accents influences the attitude of a civilization to its history.
        1. +2
          30 May 2025 13: 52
          The danger is to think that a theory can be dangerous, so get at it!

          It's just that some people (although we all are to some extent) are easily influenced and manipulated, and at some point past life/history replaces the present, and what's worse, the future, and such people see danger in any interpretation of history that goes against their beliefs, since they live by the "history of their ancestors."
          Personally, I don't care in the sense that it won't affect my real life whether Rurik was a real character or not and his real origin. In the same way, it won't affect current political events in the world.
      4. -3
        30 May 2025 07: 56
        Quote: paul3390
        But in Rus', according to the Normanists, the situation is different. They say that it was the civilized Germans who brought statehood and order to the wild Slavs, which they had never known or heard of before.

        Where is this in the chronicles? And where do the Normanists talk about this? I would be very interested to see the text. Because I know that David Nicole wrote about this in England in his book. And it would be very interesting to compare his text and the text of at least some "Normanist".
        1. +9
          30 May 2025 08: 18
          Quote: kalibr
          Where is this in the chronicles? And where do the Normanists talk about this?
          Sorry to butt in, but Stories... it is said - Our land is large and abundant, but there is no order in it. Come and reign over us.. Any Normanist will interpret it exactly this way...
          1. -2
            30 May 2025 08: 42
            Quote: Luminman
            Any Normanist would interpret it exactly this way...

            And where did he REALLY INTERPRET? Show me the text, not the speculations of the ANTINORMANISTS. Don't attribute to people what they didn't write at all. That's not good either.
          2. +8
            30 May 2025 09: 35
            In many lists the phrase is written differently. Our land is large and abundant, but there is no ORDER in it. In one it is said - there is no orderly. The term is understandable even now - let's say an order for work. Then another meaning is obvious - there is no manager, prince. There is no one to rule - the dynasty is interrupted. Hence the message of the Slovenes is clear - a supreme one is needed, they would not like to elect from the locals, because this will inevitably lead to the infringement of the interests of some groups, and Rurik with his brothers - according to some sources, had the right to reign, being the grandson of the last prince Gostomysl on his mother's side.
            Agree - in this scenario, he is a very convenient candidate. He seems to be one of our own, a Slav. He knows the language and customs, has rights, and again - he has a squad to fight off the Swedes. But at the same time - there is no close connection on the spot, which means - there is a chance that he will rule more or less fairly. Again - he will simply be forced to rely on the locals, because he does not have his own personnel in the required number. The fact that there are three brothers is even better, there will be a system of counterweights. And with the vastness of the territory and weak communications - three of them will be much more convenient to defend the lands.
        2. + 11
          30 May 2025 09: 24
          You see, here's the thing. Since I am not a professional historian, I do not have a catalog of selected quotations with bookmarks and references to source pages. In order to fulfill your request, I will need a lot of time to reread all the literature I have and make the necessary selection. I hope you will forgive me if I decline to accept your challenge?
          I simply REMEMBER that I read it. I even probably remember approximately from whom. But to compile a selected digest for you - excuse me...
          If you want to transfer the discussion to the plane of measuring the number of citations of learned men - I am ready to admit my defeat. Because I have neither the time nor the desire for such fun. Sources - I can still make a selection, but from the type of scientific works - no.

          Although - one unforgettable Thomsen was worth something, "Relations between Ancient Rus' and Scandinavia and the origin of the Russian state"
          the laying of the first foundations of the Russian state system is the work of the Scandinavians
          Lomonosov about Miller.
          in his entire speech he did not show a single instance to the glory of the Russian people, but only mentioned more that which could serve to dishonor, namely: how they were repeatedly defeated in battles, where they were devastated by robbery, fire and sword, and their treasures were robbed from the kings. And finally, it is worthy of surprise, with what carelessness he used the expression that the Scandinavians with their victorious weapons successfully conquered all of Russia
          1. 0
            30 May 2025 11: 29
            Quote: paul3390
            Although - one unforgettable Thomsen was worth something, "Relations between Ancient Rus' and Scandinavia and the origin of the Russian state"
            the laying of the first foundations of the Russian state system is the work of the Scandinavians

            Now that's something. But modern historians "there" don't write such things anymore and haven't for a long time. History is a developing science. Both here and there. Why should we TODAY pay attention to what was written THERE and LONG AGO. But we don't want to know what is written THERE TODAY? And "it feeds on fables". Pushkin said/wrote about such people. Because if we are going to argue "for history" and shame "enemies", then we need to indicate the AUTHOR, BOOK, VOLUME, page and provide a QUOTE. That would be a historical approach. To write indiscriminately "they are bad, they lie" is neither scientific nor just stupid!
            1. +3
              30 May 2025 11: 37
              Because if we are going to argue "for history" and shame "enemies", then we need to indicate the AUTHOR, BOOK, VOLUME, page and provide a QUOTE. That would be a historical approach. Writing indiscriminately "they are bad, they are lying" is neither scientific nor simply stupid!


              Because most people heard it in “Rabinovich’s remakes”, the author’s entire article is completely without a single reference to any articles or books, and only mentions the fictional series Vikings as a source.
      5. +4
        30 May 2025 08: 55
        This is the danger of the Norman theory.
        You just need to remember who in Russia created and promoted the so-called "Norman theory", then it will become clear why it was created and promoted, because "History is always written by the victors for the vanquished" wink
      6. +1
        30 May 2025 11: 20
        Because it is from here that our dear Western partners make very far-reaching conclusions about us....


        This only shows that you understand little about our “Western” partners; they don’t care about this Norman theory, just like they don’t care about events that happened many hundreds of years ago; they live in the present and have plans for the future and are guided by economic gain, as it should be in the capitalist world.


        But in Rus', according to the Normanists, the situation is different. They say that it was the civilized Germans who brought statehood and order to the wild Slavs, which they had never known or heard of before.


        Let's assume that this turns out to be true, will it somehow affect you? The history of the United States is literally 200-300 years, and at the same time this country is a military, technological and, sadly, world cultural leader, not China with its thousand-year history, not Italy with its Rome, not Egypt with the pyramids, etc., but America, go to our Kinopoisk, watch the most popular TV series/movies from the top 250. Maybe one of the secrets of the success of the United States is that they, as a country, started 200-300 years ago and they do not have this “historical legacy”.
        As for me, it doesn’t matter (for the present time) what happened a thousand years ago, our current situation will not change in any way.
        1. 0
          30 May 2025 11: 28
          It's not even interesting to argue.
          1. 0
            30 May 2025 11: 38
            So in order to argue you need a subject for the argument, you only have emotions, especially about "Western partners".
      7. +2
        30 May 2025 18: 03
        "That is, they came everywhere and everywhere to ready-made things. Without creating anything, but simply using someone else's"

        And where they came to an empty place where the natives had not “prepared” anything for them (Greenland, Iceland, North America) it turned out to be a “fizzle”. Norman.
      8. +6
        30 May 2025 18: 39
        Quote: paul3390
        There you go. This is the danger of the Norman theory, not the desire to measure something there. Because this is where our dear Western partners come from

        "There are no Napoleons or Genghis Khans in mental hospitals now - modern psychos simply don't know who they are" (c)
      9. +1
        30 May 2025 20: 41
        That is, they came everywhere and everywhere to what was ready. Without creating anything, but simply using someone else's. And this is understandable - at home they themselves did not have states, but rather complex chiefdoms.
        Be consistent. At a much earlier time, the Celts also came to Western Europe from the east. So what? The Achaeans came to Greece from the north and enslaved/ousted/assimilated the Pelasgians. Then the Dorians did the same to them a little later with a new wave of migration. So what?
        So we will gradually reach the waves of migration of human ancestors from Africa. All sorts of Neanderthals and other proto-Denisovans. So what?! Will we shout: "Aiyaaai! They started the extermination of mammoths!!! What bad radishes."?
        1. +2
          30 May 2025 20: 46
          And - what? What is this passage for? You'll also drag in erectus.

          Show me better - where and when did the Normans create a kind of state in places that did not have one before? We'll talk later.
          1. +2
            30 May 2025 21: 09
            Why only the Normans? Let's go through the rest: where and when did the Achaeans create states? They showed up in Greece, as soon as the Cretan civilization weakened from the cataclysms and the Bronze Age crisis, and the Mycenaean civilization flourished on the ready-made. The same goes for the Hyksos in Northern Egypt. The Franks in Gaul. Oh, the horror, the Latins on the southern outskirts of Etruria rebelled against the ready-made Rome in their village. Some more "Papuans" showed up through the Caucasus in Eastern Turkey on the ready-made peoples of Hatti, meanly assimilated them and became the Hittites. And so on... But the only thing that gets in your throat is the Normans. There are countless examples of this in the history of mankind. And no one cares. Except for the militant Rodnovers and admirers of the Slavic-Aryans. You are not one of them, by any chance?
            1. 0
              29 July 2025 13: 20
              but you can also answer by saying that the Russians had a hand in the founding of many countries in modern Europe. Even Germany was united with their permission under Grobachev.
      10. +1
        29 July 2025 13: 16
        They say that it was the civilized Germans who brought statehood and order to the wild Slavs, which they had never known or heard of before.

        Well, ask the Germans where they put all the Obodrites under their leadership? What went wrong with the Slavs?
    3. +2
      30 May 2025 07: 10
      So let's throw out all history, since it won't change anything in the modern world. Why do they teach about some pharaohs and Caesars in school? What difference does it make to us whether it's ancient Plato or medieval Plethon?
      And secondly, why try to drag in supposed historicity to this maxim, referring to the Franks and Rurik? The Franks have nothing to do with it at all, and Rurik is clearly a literary character whose calling is copied from Hengist's calling.
      1. + 11
        30 May 2025 07: 50
        Quote: SVD68
        Let's throw out the whole story, since it won't change anything in the modern world.
        And at the same time paleontology, philology, cosmology, geology, since they also do not change anything in the political situation... History must be thrown out of the heads of those who appeal to it, believing that it gives someone the right to something in relation to someone. And if history is not suitable for such a justification of the right, then they deny it and coming up with another, more suitable one.

        It is time to understand that history is not a source of law. Even the law of the strong (and it rules in modern geopolitics) is based not on the strength of ancestors (they cannot use it for obvious reasons), but on the strength of descendants living today.

        And history is simply a scientific discipline that studies the patterns of social processes (including political ones) and allows politicians to be advised on how to act in a given situation. This is its practical benefit. But history deniers do not understand this. For them, it is simply some kind of thing in itself, which must be "beautiful" and pleasant (for them), so that it can be used as a source of pride. From their point of view, the inflated ego and off-the-scale self-esteem of most representatives of civilization is the key to its success in geopolitical confrontation. Although history generally suggests that self-confidence and pomposity lead to the opposite result.
        1. 0
          30 May 2025 19: 46
          This is not history that is being denied, but fairy tales that are being passed off as history. What is scientific about deriving the name of the Rus tribe from Ruotsi, when there are tribes all around with names like Ves, Vod, Chud, Kors, Zhmud, Golyad? It is clearly an adaptation to suit the desired.
          1. 0
            29 July 2025 13: 24
            Yerzya has been forgotten. This is Yerezan, which has become a purely Russian Ryazan.
    4. +3
      30 May 2025 07: 58
      Quote: Pushkowed
      Even the French, even in the period between the Franco-Prussian and Second World Wars (1870-1945), when they had good reason to dislike the Germans, did not deny the fact that the very name of their country – France – comes from the name of the Frankish tribe.
      There is one point here - the modern French are, for the most part, Latinized Germans, with a small admixture of Gauls, and this means that in cultural and civilizational terms they are a highly cultured people who have absorbed the legacy of ancient Rome and to some extent are the continuers of Roman culture. And they still consider Germany a barbarian country, only tolerance does not allow them to say this out loud. A good example is the correspondence between Churchill and Roosevelt, where they contemptuously call the Germans Huns... P.S. I know that neither Churchill nor Roosevelt are French, but the modern English have absorbed a lot of Roman things from the continent throughout their history, and the Americans are their imitators...
      1. +4
        30 May 2025 08: 34
        - The modern French are, for the most part, Latinized Germans, with a small admixture of Gauls.
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
      2. +5
        30 May 2025 09: 26
        Quote: Luminman
        And they still consider Germany a barbaric country.

        A nodding Jewish acquaintance left for Germany in the 90s. A dispute over nationalities escalated into a fistfight, the Germans expelled him. He moved to Paris, lived there for a while, and then returned to his historical homeland. He was very skeptical about the culture of the French compared to the Germans. wink
        Quote: Pushkowed
        And history is simply a scientific discipline that studies

        Sometimes it seems to me that history is a field of fiction literature. wink
        1. +9
          30 May 2025 12: 16
          Once I visited a Caucasian forum where Georgians were measuring their toughness with Azerbaijanis. The hot-blooded horsemen were already fighting with daggers - and then an Armenian got involved in the showdown. With the thesis that since the Bagrationi dynasty is a branch of the Bagratuni family, all of Georgian history is just an internal Armenian showdown.

          Oooooh, what started here... I thought the monitor would burst into flames...
          1. +1
            30 May 2025 12: 22
            Quote: paul3390
            Once I visited a Caucasian forum where Georgians were measuring their toughness with Azerbaijanis. The hot-blooded horsemen were already fighting with daggers - and then an Armenian got involved in the showdown. With the thesis that since the Bagrationi dynasty is a branch of the Bagratuni family, all of Georgian history is just an internal Armenian showdown.

            What does the book about Bender say about these people? Nothing has changed. Mobile phones and computers were obtained, but the mentality is still the same.
          2. +1
            30 May 2025 12: 45
            And the most important thing is that on that forum people simply wasted their lives, emotions and nerves on a completely meaningless dispute, in which the truth (whatever it may be) will not in any way affect the life of any of the participants in the dispute.
            1. 0
              30 May 2025 15: 53
              So, today's Georgians are yesterday's Azerbaijanis, the day before yesterday's Turks?
          3. +1
            30 May 2025 15: 37
            Quote: paul3390
            Oooooh, what started here... I thought the monitor would burst into flames...

            Haven't they gotten to Adam and Eve yet? wink
          4. +1
            30 May 2025 18: 26
            Do you know what an Armenian astronaut is? All Armenians will die of joy, all Georgians will die of envy, and the Caucasus will remain for Azerbaijanis.
            Do you know why there are no Armenian cosmonauts? Because all Armenians will die of joy, all Georgians of envy, and the Caucasus will remain for the Azerbaijanis.
        2. 0
          30 May 2025 21: 17
          Quote: There was a mammoth
          the field of literature of the fantasy genre.

          It's the narrow-minded people who make it this way...
      3. 0
        30 May 2025 20: 47
        The modern French are mostly Latinized Germans, with a small admixture of Gauls
        The French are a mixture of Germans and Latinized Celts. In Gaul, the main population remained Celtic throughout the period of Roman rule. There were practically no Romans or their direct descendants there. In homeopathic quantities. In turn, who are the Germans of the period of Rome's decline? They are a mixture of proto-Germans and non-Latinized Celts, who occupied the lands of the mainland of Northern Europe several hundred years earlier.
      4. 0
        29 July 2025 13: 28
        Churchill's correspondence with Roosevelt, where they contemptuously call the Germans Huns...

        Well, once upon a time it was fashionable for aristocrats to know Greek myths.
    5. +8
      30 May 2025 08: 34
      You took the words right out of my mouth. I will only add that the anti-Normanists themselves cultivate the idea of ​​the significance of Rurik. For some reason it seems to them that if Rus' was created not by a German, but by a proto-Baltic or proto-Pole, this is somehow better. The truly patriotic position is that whoever Rurik was, his role is secondary. No Rurik created a state from scratch. All the prerequisites were there. If not him, then another. Maybe someone from the locals. But such a thought will not visit the brains of the "patriots", clouded by the struggle with the West. They have no time to think. They need to wave a saber.
      The site has been raising questions for a long time. Alas.
      1. -1
        29 July 2025 13: 30
        Of course I agree. Rurik was just lucky that history left his name. Although of course the organizer of the state of Rus, Prophetic Oleg and his daughter (or granddaughter) Olga.
    6. +8
      30 May 2025 08: 54
      The Strugatskys described this well in "Ugly Swans"
      There are people who cannot live without the past, they are entirely in the past, more or less distant. They live by traditions, customs, covenants, they draw joy and example from the past. Let's say, Mr. President. What would he do if we did not have our great past? What would he refer to and where would he come from at all.
    7. +3
      30 May 2025 13: 48
      If we switch our attention:
      The Immortal Regiment is a brilliant action of memory and formatting of consciousness, has a great media effect, is held all over the world. And according to your conclusions, the ancestors are dead and their opinion is of no interest to anyone... Devaluation... Indifference...
      We are witnessing how the history of the Great Victory is being rewritten in the West, and if this is happening now, when witnesses of that terrible inhuman tragedy for which the collective West is guilty are still alive, it is obvious that this has always happened... Where do you think the manuscripts on the history of M.V. Lomonosov disappeared to, immediately after his death? It seems more like a rhetorical question...
    8. +1
      30 May 2025 15: 40
      Quote: Pushkowed
      It's a pity that the respected author doesn't realize this.

      Oh, come on! The author has been writing his own alternative history for a long time now and is fully aware of what he is writing.
    9. 0
      1 June 2025 02: 10
      The Norman theory cost 27 million Russian lives. It was based on the Norman theory that Hitler justified his right to Russian lands and saw Russians as third-class people who were subject to destruction. And the war of extermination was waged by Germany based on the Norman theory. Even if this theory is true, it should be forgotten.
  3. -4
    30 May 2025 04: 56
    First, our history was falsified by priests after the adoption of Orthodoxy. They imposed Bulgarian as the Church Slavonic language (neither Cyril nor Methodius knew Russian, and one of them knew Bulgarian). They removed all the original sources. Then the fire and destruction of Ivan the Terrible's library.
    And only then did they perform
    German migrant historians
    .
    How Russians differ from Jews. It is best to understand with one proverb.
    Here we have: don't spit in the well, you might need some water to drink.
    They have: do not spit in the well from which you drank.

    We Russians live in the future. That's why I personally don't give a damn what those damned infidels write.
    1. +1
      30 May 2025 06: 43
      All original sources have been removed.
      What is interesting is that it turns out that the very "Tale of Bygone Years" that speaks of the arrival of the Normans does not actually exist. Authors of a later time, three hundred years later, refer to this tale.
      1. +3
        30 May 2025 12: 26
        Well, in the West, almost all primary sources have been preserved exclusively in much later lists of dubious origin and in a few copies. Which does not prevent them from believing these sources sacredly. Russians are invariably subject to doubts and suspicions. For exactly the same reasons that they believe their own.
        1. +1
          30 May 2025 21: 14
          Quote: paul3390
          Russians, on the other hand, are invariably subject to doubts and suspicions.

          I wrote 4 books for the English. In the famous Osprey publishing house. With references to our research and texts of the chronicles. And no one doubted or suspected what I wrote. And there were also articles in magazines about the Battle on the Ice, and about some other antiquities... I don't remember. I remember Zeynalov drew for them. And... no suspicions!
    2. -1
      30 May 2025 07: 35
      “History is not a teacher, but a warden:
      She teaches nothing, but only punishes for not knowing the lessons."

      Quote: bya965
      We Russians live in the future.

      Ivans who don't remember their kinship?
      The present shapes the past, the past determines the future.
      If you don't know the past, you don't know the future. Others will determine it for you.
      1. +6
        30 May 2025 08: 18
        Quote: Boris55
        Ivans who don't remember their kinship?
        This is exactly what representatives of a developed civilization should be (figuratively, not literally) if it claims a worthy place in the world. For such people all the rest of the representatives of their civilization are like relatives. And they are assessed by their actual personal qualities, not by origin. The opposite approach (taking into account kinship) is nepotism, tribalism, classism, parochialism, ethnic crime... That is, the atomization of society. Such a society is more vulnerable in confrontation with other societies.

        Quote: Boris55
        The present shapes the past, the past determines the future.
        But no. The past does not directly affect the future. The probability of getting heads or tails in a single toss is always about 50/50, regardless of how many times in a row one side has come up before. This is an analogy to the influence of force majeure factors (including "black swans") on history.

        Quote: Boris55
        If you don't know the past, you don't know the future. Others will determine it for you.
        The future is by definition unknown to anyone. But it can be made (defined) as it would be slightly more desirable to see it. And knowledge of historical patterns can give a small hint on how to do this. But nothing more. Knowledge of physics, chemistry, geography and tactics are no less important. Analogy: by lying to an adopted child that he is your own, you will not make his fate radically different. By distorting your own past and convincing yourself of the truth of this lie, you will not cancel out the other objective factors that will determine the future.
        1. 0
          30 May 2025 20: 12
          Quote: Pushkowed
          The probability of getting heads or tails in a single toss is always approximately 50/50, regardless of how many times in a row one side has come up before.
          I watched the film "The Tunnel" from 1966 - the conversation is not about the idea and concept of the film, but about heads and tails,
          in one of the scenes of the film one intelligence agent-saboteur says to another
          "Let's flip a coin and see what happens "eagle" you will carry my backpack, and if it falls out "tails" then I won't be able to carry my backpack..."
          - they toss a coin... the coin lands on "edge" (into damp soft soil),
          the second scout replies "I love fair deals" - the backpack is carried further by the owner of the backpack.
          When you bet on "red" or "white" - sometimes it comes up "zero"...
          hi
        2. 0
          31 May 2025 10: 39
          Quote: Pushkowed
          Well, no. The past does not directly influence the future.

          To make such a claim, one must deny cause and effect relationships.
          Moreover, if you believe that history is a science about the laws of development of human society, then for a correct understanding of these laws it is necessary to know the real processes, and not their mythologization.
        3. 0
          29 July 2025 13: 33
          Our past is our experience and our opportunities that our ancestors left us.
      2. 0
        30 May 2025 11: 43

        The present shapes the past, the past determines the future.
        .


        This is a completely new law of nature/universe to determine the future through the past, although the theory of probability is not on your side.
      3. 0
        31 May 2025 02: 36
        Quote: Boris55
        Ivans who don't remember their kinship?

        Oh well. We live and enjoy life. And we honor our ancestors. Everything is according to the Law.
        P.S. If your Jewish roots are offended, then so be it.
        PS2. We are Russians and we can do everything, but we will not, unlike others, use this for oppression.
        PS3. And who are these others who determine something? Be more precise. Otherwise, the guidance system does not work.
        PS4. As a mathematician, I have a very bad attitude towards probability theory. Since my student years. Because when we can't solve a problem, we use a shadow on a fence. I don't need to quote outstanding mathematicians. I respect Arnold a lot. By the way, he wanted to be a historian.
      4. +1
        31 May 2025 06: 44
        The law of normal distribution. Ha-ha*3.
        You should also remember the five sigma rule.
        By the way, there is also an asymmetric distribution there.
        So for your education. There are automodel solutions and they often describe physical processes. For example, you throw a brick into water, at first the circles on the water have the shape of the object. and then there will be a circle. Again and again a circle. So it is with history. No matter how much crap you throw at Russians, we will still be Russian. And I am proud of my nation.
  4. + 10
    30 May 2025 05: 54
    That they built Novgorod, Pskov, Kyiv and Vladimir. That they gave the "Russian savages" the ruling dynasty of the Rurikovichs, created the Russian state itself. That Rus' was practically a Swedish colony, the Normans and Germans brought the "light of enlightenment" and culture to the Russians. But isn't this rewriting history? Where in the chronicles is it written that Novgorod was founded by "others"? It says there: one brother sat in Novgorod, another in... a third... In already existing cities. They invited him to reign, which means the prince's power and throne already existed. The fact that scholars were invited, and they themselves studied abroad later, what's shameful about that? That is, everything was exactly the same as everywhere and hundreds of times. And why break spears and beat on a door that was long open?
    1. +2
      30 May 2025 06: 57
      The problem is that when, according to the chronicles, "one brother sat in Novgorod", Novgorod did not exist. That is why Rurik is often placed in Ladoga.
      1. +4
        30 May 2025 07: 49
        [quote=СВД68]That is why Rurik is often imprisoned in Ladoga.
        Yes, but he didn't "sit" in an open field. But somewhere, where there was a place and a center of power. He was invited there READY. That is, everything was before him. And he was called as a "third force" - neither ours nor yours.
    2. +6
      30 May 2025 09: 46
      But isn't this rewriting history? Where in the chronicles is it written that Novgorod was founded by "others"?

      There is also not a single legend about the founding of Kyiv by the Normans. The author simply made it up.
    3. +1
      29 July 2025 13: 35
      There is no logic in the fact that the Swedes founded a state for the Russians before they founded one for themselves. We received baptism and culture from Byzantium.
      1. 0
        29 July 2025 16: 22
        Quote: Redoubt
        There is no logic in the fact that the Swedes founded a state for the Russians before they founded one for themselves. We received baptism and culture from Byzantium.

        Of course!
  5. +3
    30 May 2025 06: 55
    Quote: bya965
    That's why I personally don't give a damn what those damned infidels write there.
    Me too. However, the youth reads the infidel chronicles and takes them into account. There are almost no other chronicles.
  6. +6
    30 May 2025 07: 17
    We've come to this. In my opinion, the author's thoughts here are precisely distortions of history.
    Anti-Russian conspiracy - before the beginning of the new time and in some places even later. No one cared what nation you were. The main question was whose slave you were.
    About the Norman question. Well, the Russo-Byzantine treaty of 911 was signed by Leo, Constantine and Alexander on the Byzantine side. On the Rus side: Ingeld, Farlaf, Frelav, Carn, Truan, etc.
    1. +6
      30 May 2025 08: 20
      At that time, it was ruled by the dynasty of Byzantium, which is of Armenian origin, and the golyama is often from the aristocracy of Armenians. Did Byzantium rule the Armensk state?
      At that time, the ruling dynasty in Byzantium was of Armenian origin, and a significant part of the aristocracy was also Armenian. Does this make Byzantium an Armenian state?
      1. +1
        30 May 2025 15: 58
        Just don't tell the Armenians, otherwise even Georgians are Armenians)
  7. +7
    30 May 2025 07: 23
    Every ordinary person, if he knows anything about history at all, knows for sure that Rus-Russia was founded by the Swedes. That they built Novgorod, Pskov, Kyiv and Vladimir. That they gave the “Russian savages” the ruling dynasty of the Rurikovichs, created the Russian state itself. That Rus was practically a Swedish colony, the Normans and Germans brought the “light of enlightenment” and culture to the Russians.

    That's it, you don't need to read any further. Only the presence of local provincial complexes makes us recognize the fact of inviting a ruling dynasty from a neighboring region to the throne, with which they not only fought, but also had serious cultural and economic relations, as a Russophobic falsification. A completely normal and reasonable practice of inviting a new ruling dynasty to the throne, indicating that in those years the Slavs of Northwestern Rus' had already gone from tribal unions to an early feudal state of the European level.
    1. +2
      30 May 2025 07: 50
      Quote: severok1979
      It was a completely normal and reasonable practice to invite a new ruling dynasty to the throne, indicating that in those years the Slavs of North-Western Rus' had already gone from tribal unions to an early feudal state of the European level.

      Exactly! And what's all the fuss about?
      1. -2
        30 May 2025 08: 47
        "The way of His providence is unknown because there is faith in Him, but there is no faith in Him!"
        FI Tyutchev

        Quote: kalibr
        Exactly!

        And did we need it?

        Another thing is that when Andrew the First-Called (not called by anyone) brought the Biblical concept of the structure of the World to Rus', our Magi turned away from it, but did not invent anything new either...

        The power of European states was formed as a result of the burning of local elites at the stake by the Inquisition and the installation of puppets on the throne.

        We know something about the Inquisition in the West and little about the Inquisition in Rus', but it was no less bloodthirsty...

        The echoes of the confrontation between the newcomers and our own are the existence of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church. This confrontation has not gone away. In 1917, it was expressed in the destruction of the church.

        And today, few people sincerely believe...
        1. +2
          30 May 2025 11: 22
          Quote: Boris55
          We know something about the Inquisition in the West and little about the Inquisition in Rus', but it was no less bloodthirsty...

          You read the Cathedral Code of 1649 by Alexei Mikhailovich and... you see. But who has ever read it?
        2. +1
          29 July 2025 13: 38
          Nobody destroyed the church in 1917. It was simply removed from state support. The tithes were removed.
    2. +5
      30 May 2025 08: 59
      Quote: severok1979
      It was a completely normal and reasonable practice to invite a new ruling dynasty to the throne, indicating that in those years the Slavs of North-Western Rus' had already gone from tribal unions to an early feudal state of the European level.
      So the English, much later, invited the Scottish Stuart dynasty to the throne, and then the Hanoverian dynasty. I don’t understand the author’s message.
      1. -1
        30 May 2025 09: 07
        The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

        Quote: Stirbjorn
        So the English, much later, invited to the throne...

        Tell me, have you invited a neighbor into your house so that he could rule in your house? laughing
        Well, just like children in kindergarten...
        1. +3
          30 May 2025 11: 11
          Well, why simplify everything so much? Large corporations often invite CEOs from outside, and that’s the beauty of it for shareholders. If the CEO can’t handle it, they can remove him and put in someone else.
          And in the case of the state, everything is even more complicated: the elites compete with each other, and the elevation of an outside representative to the throne was often simply a compromise among the elites.
          1. +2
            30 May 2025 11: 39
            The essence of Russian civilization is Bolshevism.

            Quote: Oldrover
            and the elevation of an outside representative to the throne was often simply a compromise

            The result of such compromises is perestroika... One clan-corporate group invited the USA to rule the USSR. The USA agreed, seated the clan "family" in the chair and they began to work in the interests of their country. The West carried Gorbaty and Yeltsin in their arms at that time, until Putin came... The freebie ended.

            Never will a stranger work for our interests!


            ps
            "State policy and management in a crowd-" elite "society is an agreement reached on the capabilities of various clan-corporate groupings in using the state structure and system to achieve their narrowly corporate goals."
      2. 0
        29 July 2025 13: 39
        Well, actually, the Normans ruled the English for a long time, and before that, Canute of Denmark. I wonder who gave them the legends about King Arthur.
  8. -1
    30 May 2025 08: 01
    Everyone has their own truth. The truth of many becomes the truth.

    Quote: A. Samsonov
    Russian paganism, having accepted the traditions of Christianity, became the Russian Orthodox faith, "Slavie Pravi"

    The original fundamental confrontation between the West and Rus' lies in this.

    Western worldview formed in Egypt (four-headed Amun):
    “The most important caste, ruling everything, was the caste of spiritual or priests. They also prescribed to the king (i.e., pharaoh) how to live and what to do... The highest deity of the Egyptians was Amun. In his person four deities were united: the substance from which everything in the world consists - the goddess Net; the spirit that animates matter, or the force that makes it form, change, act - the god Nef; the infinite space occupied by matter is the goddess Pasht; infinite time, which appears to us with constant changes in matter - the god Sobek. Everything that exists in the world, according to the teachings of the Egyptians, comes from matter through the action of an invisible force, occupies space and changes in time, and all this is mysteriously united in a four-united being, Amun.”

    Russian worldview of the trinity of the World (Holy Trinity):
    Rule – “Ruling”, “Governing”, “That which rules” (Causal, Causal, Fiery world), one of the three components of the world. Prav is invisible, unlike Navi, which is sometimes visible, and sometimes creatures “from the other world” - Navi (Navi) appear or appear in Reveal (in reality).

    Reality - “Explicit”, “Manifested” (Physical; what is here in this world; “this light”), one of the three constituent parts of the world.

    Nav – “Non-Reality”, “Implicit”, “Unmanifest” (Subtle World, “That Light”), one of the three components of the world.

    Worldview from the Talmud:
    “... – and He created His world with three seferim: sefar, sipur and sefer.” Here Shmakov quotes one of the books of the Talmud, “Sefer Yetzirah,” that is, “The Book of Creation.”
    1. 0
      29 July 2025 13: 43
      The first priests in Rus', explaining the essence of the Trinity - consubstantial, indivisible, but different in persons, cited the example of a family: where the father, mother and child are different in persons, but indivisible and consubstantial.
  9. +3
    30 May 2025 08: 40
    And they all became under the banner
    And they say: “How are we to be?
    Let's send to the Vikings:
    Let them come to reign.

    After all, the Germans are too busy
    He knows the darkness and light
    Our earth is rich,
    There is only no order in it. ”
  10. +2
    30 May 2025 09: 38
    Klim Zhukov has several analyses of the Normanist and other theories.
    What's important: with an explanation of the economic, political and military context.

    Well, I went to look at Levashov NV's theories. They gave me a tip about another "expert"
  11. +4
    30 May 2025 09: 43
    In the West, they have long since rewritten the true history. Every ordinary person, if he knows anything about history at all, knows for sure that Rus-Russia was founded by the Swedes. That they built Novgorod, Pskov, Kyiv and Vladimir.

    The author is ashamed not to know about the founding of Kyiv by the Polyans.
    According to legend, Kyiv was founded by three brothers: Kyi, Shchek, Khoriv and their sister Lybid and named after Kyi, the elder brother.
    1. 0
      31 May 2025 09: 40
      For many authors, the main thing is to write something so that it happens, and then if anything, readers will correct and add to it. laughing
  12. +2
    30 May 2025 10: 31
    Thus, the Russian “classical (academic)” historical school was created, which cut out thousands of years of the history of the Rus in Europe and Asia, the history of Scythian Rus, the history of German-Vandalic Rus (Vandalic Rus; German Rus).

    And the correct story, as the author mentioned earlier, is by Yu. Petukhov, and this is "History of the Rus. The most ancient era. (40-5 thousand BC) , "Rus of Great Scythia", from where he draws historical "sensations" about the most ancient people of Rus (Egyptian priests, Sumerians, etc. - these are all Rus, as are the ancestors of the ancient Greeks, etc.).

    So, what is better than such a "story" than no story at all.
  13. +4
    30 May 2025 11: 06
    talk about the "true history" of our country when primary sources were regularly burned and history was written anew...
    and regarding the shitstorm in the topic, I have one question - if France comes from the Franks, then who are the Germans? from whom Germany apparently came...
    1. 0
      30 May 2025 11: 09
      What's even more interesting is that the French call the Germans Alemanni.
    2. +2
      30 May 2025 15: 22
      Deutschland: land on Theodoric, leader on the Gothite.
    3. 0
      29 July 2025 13: 52
      Who are the Germans? From whom Germany apparently originated...

      They once invited the Norman leader Herman, but burned the springs under Otto III, who imitated Rome. "The Miracle of the World" was his nickname.
  14. +3
    30 May 2025 11: 14
    1) The Varangians (whoever they were) were approached not to create a state, but to invite to the common throne a person who was not more favorably disposed to one of the multilingual tribes of the Slavs, Finno-Ugrians and Balts. They had had their own state organization for a long time (veche, elders, princes), but they decided to simply invite an independent head of the union of tribes.
    2) In the Middle Ages, nations and nationalities did not exist. There were only "lord" and "people". The ethnic origin of the "lord" did not influence the ethnic composition of the "people".
    3) The “calling” did not and could not have caused any foreign language or foreign cultural invasion.
    1. 0
      5 August 2025 11: 58
      Inscription on Persian: In Christian Bulgaria, take a lot of goodness in the direction. And they are crazy, but God sees.”
      Bitolski inscription on Tsar Yoan: Prez summer 6523 (white: 1015 ff. Chronicle) from the creation of this world, renew this fortress,
      zid]ana and pravena from Yoan, Bulgarian autocrat
      and with] help and prayer for the blessed Lady, our Mother of God, and through
      [stagnation] captivity is on the twelve-day period and on the apostles. Tazi fortress be directed [behind]
      [y]shelter] both for salvation and for the belly in Bulgarian. Zapochnata
      [furious] fortress [B]i[t]olya prez month ok[to]mvri, in the 20th [day], and this is the end of the prez month […]
      in the region Tozi autocrat] beshe Bulgarian by birth, in [grandson]
      turn to [Nikol] and to Hripsimiya, son to Aron,
      [someone's brother on] S[amuel, the king of Samod]arzhaven, and who's broken [in
      The troops were spared against Tsar Vasily, and the gold would not have been taken
      […], and tozi […] the king is [broken]
      [bidet from Tsar Vasily in Godinata 652]2 (white: 1014 ff. Chron.) from the creation of this world
      [in Key and start in] edges [in Latoto.]
      And in two inscriptions, speak for the Bulgarians, because they are slightly different from the Christians and the Hertsi, that is, the people are different.
  15. +2
    30 May 2025 11: 28
    Quote: Kote pane Kohanka
    I will write only one thing - “everyone believes in their own truth.”

    An interesting remark; i.e. the Western school of history praises its own and will not overpraise them - they descended from the Romans and from the Greeks and Egyptians, in general the logic there is on the verge of fantasy, what their scribblers did not smoke when composing their history, not limiting themselves to anything; here's what's also interesting: it's the 21st century and we have a bunch of history departments in Rus', all sorts of academics, professors - in terms of the scale of absorption of money from the budget, there is probably no one to compare with, but we do not glorify anything of our own, we do not create anything of our own, there is no idea, there is not a single academic fanatic of our history - nothing except, again, glorification of their history and glorification of the modest place in it occupied by the history of our people ... the conclusion suggests itself - Mr. Skrynnikov and company received grants from USAID or Soros, this is what academic historians call it - international recognition of merits, probably.
  16. +3
    30 May 2025 11: 29
    This is well shown in such a great series as Vikings.


    You might as well have cited Game of Thrones as an argument; the Vikings series was never declared to be a series that strictly followed historical events.

    It is enough to look at how right now in Britain they are rewriting the history of England in the mainstream of political correctness, tolerance, multiculturalism and racial diversity. When in scientific books they write in all seriousness that the British Isles were first inhabited by black people (Negroes), then they were displaced by Europeans. That all the best was created by Negroes.


    It's a pity that you didn't provide sources, perhaps you meant the series Anne Boleyn, as it is also declared as an alternative vision and just hype.
    1. 0
      30 May 2025 11: 39
      Quote: Oldrover
      It's a pity that you didn't provide sources, perhaps you meant the series Anne Boleyn, as it is also declared as an alternative vision and just hype.

      Is it hard to google?
      https://22century.ru/popular-science-publications/ancient-genomes-indicate-population-replacement-in-early-neolithic-britain?ysclid=mbajw184mq356797858
      1. +1
        30 May 2025 11: 49
        I didn't quite understand what you wanted to say with your link, DNA was isolated from some remains and how this relates to what the author wrote:

        When scientific books write in all seriousness that the British Isles were first inhabited by black people (Negroes), then they were displaced by Europeans. That all the best things were created by blacks.
        1. 0
          30 May 2025 17: 20
          and how does this relate to what the author wrote:


          This doesn't correlate in any way.

          The ancestors of modern Africans played no part in the settlement of Britain (or Europe).
          1. 0
            29 July 2025 13: 55
            The ancestors of modern Africans played no part in the settlement of Britain.

            Now their descendants are taking part. In a hundred years they will write that Britain was populated by their ancestors in prehistoric times.
            It happens. For example, in Hollywood they are making a film about the Russian hockey player Ovechkin, played by an African.
      2. +1
        30 May 2025 17: 29
        Have you read the study?

        The Cheddar Man has nothing to do with Africans.

        The man has cheddar

        male DNA line Y-chromosomal = I2a2b (European DNA line)
        female DNA lineage mtDNA = U5a (European DNA lineage)

        Hence the conclusion that the cheddar man has nothing to do with Africans.

        Moreover, modern Africans and modern Europeans
        have different sets of mutations, different haplogroups, and different genetic distances
  17. 0
    30 May 2025 12: 02
    They called upon Rus, the Rus. They called upon their own, those they knew, with a single language, faith and traditions. At the same time, the Varangians-Rus behaved differently on Russian soil than in the lands of modern France or England, where a cruel war of extermination was underway. The different behavior of the Varangians-Vikings in the West and in Rus is an obvious fact. The Rus came to Rus, and "the language is one for Rus and the Slovenes...". Everything is simple and natural!
    D.I. Ilovaisky has written a lot on this issue.

    According to his hypothesis, Rurik is not a historical figure, but a fictional character.
    And the first Russian princes appeared not in Novgorod, but in Kyiv, and the expansion of the principality went from south to north, and not from north to south, as described in the fairy tale Tale of Bygone Years.
    1. 0
      29 July 2025 13: 56
      The Khazars did not allow Kyiv to rise. The Varangians came from the north. And the Slavs saw that the Khazars could be beaten. And they made an alliance with the Varangians.
  18. 0
    30 May 2025 12: 07
    The Rus' also founded Scandinavian Rus',
    Samsonov in his repertoire laughing
  19. +1
    30 May 2025 12: 24
    Quote: Oldrover
    When scientific books write in all seriousness that the British Isles were first inhabited by black people (Negroes), then they were displaced by Europeans. That all the best was created by Negroes.

    If only there was an example of one such book and author. I would read it with interest myself. And from other people's words...
    1. 0
      1 June 2025 00: 52
      Well, there is something about it. It was about 100 thousand years ago. The first "Europeans" came from Africa and they were black. Well, it seems logical, there were no whites then. Then these blacks turned white. If you look at Ethiopians, they are European in appearance, but black. And they are right on the migration routes.
  20. +2
    30 May 2025 13: 52
    What nonsense, don't read this.....The author is a fan of "new history" and "super-enos of the Rus".
    Moreover, it gives incorrect extracts from the chronicles.
  21. 0
    30 May 2025 15: 02
    Under Stalin, they dug like crazy. They literally dug with their noses, looking for self-identity.
    But only then were we convinced of the Norman theory.
    Facts are stubborn things. hi
  22. +4
    30 May 2025 15: 16
    Quote: Arzt

    Facts are stubborn things.
    The Norman theory is not supported by any facts, it is just a hypothesis that conflicts with common sense
    1. -1
      30 May 2025 16: 25
      Quote: Lewww
      Quote: Arzt

      Facts are stubborn things.
      The Norman theory is not supported by any facts, it is just a hypothesis that conflicts with common sense

      Facts: Russian-Byzantine treaty of 944.

      Signatures from the Russian side, including: Vuefast from Svyatoslav, son of Igor; Kanitsar from Predslava; Shikhbern Sfandr from his wife Uleb; Prasten Tudorov; Grim Sfirkov; Prasten Akun, Igor's nephew; Prasten Bernov; Shibrid Aldan; Steggi Etonov; Alvad Gudov; Fudri Tuadov; Turobid, Furosten, Bruny, Roald, Gunastre, Frasten, Igeld, Thorbern, Monet, Ruald, Tilen,

      Monet, Ruald, Thorbern, Prasten, Shikhbern Kanizar, Frasten, Igeld - all Russian names? With whom did Byzantium sign the treaty, if not with Russia?
      1. +1
        30 May 2025 17: 19
        Facts: Russian-Byzantine treaty of 944.
        Facts confirming what exactly?
        That Rurik, summoned from beyond the seven seas, is a historical figure, and not a fairy tale? laughing
        1. -2
          30 May 2025 17: 36
          Quote: Lewww
          Facts confirming what exactly?
          Exactly? Names.
          The fact that among the leaders there were many clearly Scandinavian, rather than Slavic, names.
          1. +1
            30 May 2025 18: 19
            The fact that among the leaders there were many clearly Scandinavian, rather than Slavic, names.
            Dear Sir, I always burst out laughing at such statements. laughing

            Perhaps you have a complete list of Slavic names from the end of the 9th century, allowing us to make an accurate conclusion that some of the names indicated in the contract clearly not Slavic? No.

            And I won’t even mention the fact that many names could have ended up in the agreement in a very corrupted form, since they were written down by the Greeks by ear.

            I am even more amused by the experts who claim that the names Oleg and Igor are clearly not Slavic. laughing
            Know-nothing experts are one of the bright symbols of our time. You don't need to be an expert, you need to be an effective manager
      2. +2
        30 May 2025 17: 41
        Are the names all Russian?

        So these were ambassadors.
        What's wrong?

        From Prince Igor, his son Svyatoslav, Princess Olga,
        from the prince's relatives and boyars
        were sent ambassadors, mentioned in the chronicle by name
        1. 0
          30 May 2025 18: 25
          Quote from stelltok
          So these were ambassadors.
          What's wrong?

          That's right. And Svyatoslav himself was from the Rurikovichs. And everyone thought it was normal. And the ambassadors from noble families and the merchants were also Scandinavians. I should ask, what's wrong?
      3. 0
        30 May 2025 19: 54
        And which of these names are Scandinavian?
        1. +1
          30 May 2025 20: 31
          History books are full of wonders, then an army from Mongolia in winter will gallop several thousand kilometers through deserted places where there is no fodder for horses, not even water (in liquid form), then someone will sail somewhere on large boats (drakkars) and immediately capture a city surrounded by walls ... as usual, either dogs bark, or ruins speak, and if suddenly they find an artifact that does not fit into the official history, then they will hide it.
          1. 0
            30 May 2025 21: 08
            Quote: agond
            if they suddenly find an artifact that doesn't fit into the official history, they'll hide it

            Even one example of a hidden artifact?
            1. 0
              31 May 2025 18: 21
              Quote: kalibr

              kalibr
              (Vyacheslav)
              +1
              Yesterday, 21: 08
              New
              Quote: agond
              if they suddenly find an artifact that doesn't fit into the official history, they'll hide it
              Even one example of a hidden artifact?

              If such discoveries can exist, but they are not talked about, then obviously the information is being concealed, what do you think?
              1. -1
                1 June 2025 15: 49
                Quote: agond
                If such discoveries can exist, but they are not talked about, then obviously the information is being concealed, what do you think?

                Then how do you know about them? What is this concealment that VO readers write about?
          2. 0
            29 July 2025 14: 03
            then the army from Mongolia will gallop several thousand kilometers in winter

            The army was not from Mongolia, but from the ulus of Jochi. This is Bulgaria. Nizhny Novgorod is a stone's throw away.
            In the 18th century, when the movement was little different from the 13th century, the Kalmyks made their dusty march to China from the mouth of the Volga in six months. Bekovich-Cherkassky with infantry and Cossacks reached Khiva (Khorezm) from Yaik in two and a half months.
      4. +1
        29 July 2025 13: 58
        Where are Sveneld and Asmud?
        The Norman theory does not take into account one thing. It turns out that the Swedes organized a state for the Russians before they organized one for themselves.
  23. 0
    30 May 2025 20: 34
    Quote: sidorov
    And Svyatoslav himself was from the Rurik dynasty.
    Where in the treaty is it written that Svyatoslav was from the Rurik dynasty?
    Please provide direct quotation
    Both the ambassadors from noble families and the merchants were also Scandinavians.
    What is the basis for this conclusion? Have you seen the entry in the NATIONALITY column in their passports?
    1. +1
      29 July 2025 14: 06
      So, you see, a simple renaming of the Rurik dynasty to the Igoreviches, in honor of Svyatoslav’s father, will put an end to the Norman theory.
  24. 0
    31 May 2025 07: 15
    Another Zadornov has shown up, Phew...
  25. +2
    31 May 2025 07: 57
    Normans, Vikings, Varangians - these are the clans of Rus, Baltic Slavs. Our ancestors, who spoke Russian and its dialects

    An unfounded statement. Genetics, as a science, says that this is absolutely not true.
  26. 0
    31 May 2025 09: 52
    Quote: kebeskin
    Well, the Russo-Byzantine Treaty of 911 was signed by Leo, Constantine and Alexander on the Byzantine side. On the Rus side: Ingeld, Farlaf, Frelav, Karn, Truan, etc.

    Well, yes, and they also swore by their gods Perun and Veles.
    And what does that prove?
    1. +1
      29 July 2025 14: 08
      They swore by their gods Perun and Veles. And what does this prove?

      Perun and Veles are Slavic gods.
  27. 0
    31 May 2025 11: 39
    It is clear that the Egyptian pyramids were built by Russians... laughing

    But what is shameful in calling the Varangians? Different nations had their own "Varangians".

    But to say that Russians allowed their history to be rewritten is a disgrace. And an admission of one's own mental inferiority. A characteristic feature of our "eternally deceived" compatriots.
    1. +1
      29 July 2025 14: 11
      The Romanovs traced their lineage back to Andrey Kobyla. What to do about it?
  28. +1
    31 May 2025 11: 49
    rare nonsense. no better than western
  29. 0
    31 May 2025 14: 14
    Thirty-three heroes in scales like the heat of grief, with them Uncle Chernomor... Who is this Russian fairy tale about?
    1. +1
      29 July 2025 14: 15
      About Guidon and the matchmaker Babarikha.
      Modern science has not really figured out the origins of Prince Vladimir's mother Malusha and her brother Dobrynya, but here they want to talk about all the Slavs at once.
  30. +3
    31 May 2025 14: 42
    Good day to all. You know, I recognized Samsonov right away, even without reading. Maybe that's good or not?
    For me as a reader - a minus: I didn't learn anything new
    1. 0
      29 July 2025 14: 15
      A hack job came up.
  31. 0
    1 June 2025 00: 45
    The history of the Germans is based on the historical work of Tacitus. During the time of the Roman Empire in the 1st century BC, the Germans supposedly lived happily on the Scandinavian Peninsula, hardened themselves there, forged the Nordic character, and then, for no apparent reason, they trudged across the European continent to the Crimea and the Black Sea steppes. And they had horses, carts, and all their belongings. Well, a sedentary people-farmers cannot change their way of life and lead a steppe nomadic lifestyle. That is how the Goths appeared in the Black Sea region. Well, and then, as is known, the Goths attacked the Roman Empire and settled beyond the Danube with the permission of the Roman "governor". He promised them shelter, food, and other benefits, but deceived them. Then the Goths rebelled, but he threw them beyond the Danube. Therefore, when the Huns arrived, they happily joined them and went through the Roman Empire with fire and sword.
    But suddenly other Germanic tribes are discovered. Why Germanic, because the Romans called the province of the Roman Empire - Germany, and Germanic tribes really lived there. But they lived on the territory of the Roman Empire, not outside of it. That is, they were a deeply Roman people and they were of Roman culture, although they had their own languages. And beyond the border, along the borders of the Roman Empire, literally 30-100 kilometers away, lived the Slavs. This is confirmed by both Roman sources and archaeological excavations. In modern Germany, in Bavaria, there are even specially created reconstructions of Slavic settlements. There is no way the Germans could live in such a narrow strip of about 30 kilometers along the border of the Roman Empire, stretching from the Alps to the Scandinavian Peninsula. The movement of the Germans to the north began in the 7th century along the Danube and the Rhine and across the territory of the Roman Empire. In the 8th century they reached Denmark and in the 9th century they began to push back the Slavic settlements and only in the 10th century did archaeologists find settlements of Germans in Scandinavia. But at the same time the Slavs also lived there, however they were still encountered there in the 18th century. And the true homeland of the Germans is the northern slopes of the Alps, these were the mountaineers who, after the Romans conquered these territories and included them in the Roman Empire, gradually over the course of 5 centuries spread across the territory of the Roman Empire to the north along the Rhine and to the east along the Danube.
  32. +1
    3 June 2025 09: 55
    Wow! Granny remembered how she was a girl!
    Actually, foreigners on the throne is an old and good European tradition. I don't remember any Englishmen on the English throne.
    Danes, French, Scots, Germans, first Welfs, today Saxe-Coburgs.
    The Swedes have outdone everyone. Their Karl XIV Johan is not only not of royal blood, but not even a nobleman, but the son of a provincial solicitor.
    What the hell difference does it make what happened under Tsar Pea?
    For me, something else is much more important:
    "We are Russians and with God's help we will overcome everything." Willim Derfelden at the War Council at the St. Gotthard Pass!
    1. +1
      29 July 2025 14: 18
      The Finns don't have a single male crowned head at all.
      1. 0
        29 July 2025 14: 19
        Well, they never had a monarchy. It seems what.
        1. +1
          29 July 2025 14: 21
          Well, they sat under the Swedish yoke for 600 years. What I mean is that no one calls the Finns "backward without monarchs and a state."
  33. +2
    8 June 2025 05: 40
    In the Russian language, traces of Norman languages ​​are completely absent. And Time has nothing to do with it, it was the same before - in the "Russkaya Pravda" of Yaroslav the Wise, they are also absent. As well as in the "Ostromir Gospel", which for 200 years was the oldest written document of Rus.
  34. +1
    2 July 2025 18: 28
    My greatest fear is that we will slide into myth-making. Ukrainians. This is not necessary.
  35. +1
    19 July 2025 07: 49
    And the Germans (from the word mute) were called that because they couldn't speak Russian. They were wild, they came out of the forest.
  36. 0
    5 August 2025 12: 18
    Strange article, the author looks like a plant.
  37. 0
    12 August 2025 17: 13
    There are archaeological finds from Varangian settlements. The difference with the Slavic ones is at the everyday level, including numerous hammers of Thor. Another attitude to the Slavs, not like to Western Europe and the whole world, because firstly, there was nothing much to take from the Slavs, secondly, river trade brought in a lot of income and having hostile relations with the aboriginal Slavs would mean that the Varangians themselves would become victims of raids, and the rivers and rapids would be blocked for them. Fighting with poor Slavs on a huge territory is expensive and unprofitable, it is easier to establish cooperation. It is likely that Rurik is, if not a fictional character, then at least his calling is fictional. The clan of Varangians established control over the territory and legitimized their stay with the myth of calling. The motive "these are not conquerors, the people themselves called them" is quite common. Similarly, the Vikings were "called" in Ireland, for example. Probably one strong Varangian clan took control of the territory and eliminated competitors. Unfortunately, there is too little information to know how everything really was, thanks to zealous Christians who destroyed literally all the heritage and "legends of antiquity" and did not bother to write them down. All that is there are scraps of information from chronicles, and plots of fairy tales with hints at the life, customs and worldview of that time - all with great distortion. However, the Norman theory is confirmed by archeology, and the names and culture of the ruling elite, and toponyms, and the composition of princely squads and information about them already "after Rurik" in the times of quite historical figures. It is, of course, proud and patriotic to think that here we are with a mustache since the Paleolithic. But such invaders ruling the aborigines are rather the rule in history than the exception. There is nothing to be ashamed of and to invent alternatives. So, we can also think up more about the construction of pyramids by the ancient Russians.
  38. 0
    4 September 2025 11: 32
    Today the dispute between Normanists and anti-Normanists is an anachronism, it is already clear that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. All that remains is for a competent modern historian to present everything from a scientific point of view
  39. 0
    17 November 2025 09: 11
    Askold and Dir are typical Russian names.