Military Review

Russia intends to "punish" Ukraine by abandoning the project An-70

146
One of the goals of the directors of this aircraft mystery is to "bring to the knees" the Antonov company, if only by cutting off control of their own projects and drastically reducing the level of cooperation with Ukraine.


Russia intends to "punish" Ukraine by abandoning the project An-70


There was a time when the aircraft industry acted as a powerful unifying factor for Ukraine and Russia. The An-70 project was generally called the calling card of bilateral relations, and similar cooperation schemes were preserved unless in the space sphere. But by the spring of 2013, another round of tension in relations between the two states had matured, and the aircraft industry had once again become hostage to general political disorder. The Russian side, first through the mouth of the ambassador to Ukraine, Mikhail Zurabov, and then with a series of unambiguous actions, announced the next withdrawal from the project to create and manufacture the An-70 military transport aircraft. And not only. Practically all joint plans in the field of aircraft construction cracked at the seams, from An-140 to a megaproject to resume production of the modernized An-124 Ruslan aircraft.

What is the true reason for such blatant sabotage and betrayal of ideas that aircraft builders have been proud of for several decades? Or, in Russia, they suddenly saw the light, realizing the imperfection of joint projects with Ukraine, in order to return to the long-forgotten national developments? It turned out that aircraft manufacturing was simply sacrificed to the Kremlin’s political ambitions.

From big politics to technological blows

For two decades of independent living after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin has developed many interesting mechanisms for political pressure on the territory, considering them an unshakable zone of its interests. When it comes to Ukraine, attacks on high-tech industries and projects containing critical technologies are often used for political blackmail. But if, for example, the refusal in 1996 to supply components for Ukrainian tanksdestined for Pakistan could well be explained by the competition of tank-building schools and Russia's intention to conclude a similar contract with India, the aircraft-building demarches are comparable to hara-kiri for their own industry. However, aviation industry managers are inexorable and ready to apply a strangulation to their aircraft manufacturers, when the general paradigm is not working according to their plan.

And the plan was simple: create a vassal, fully controlled territory. The Russian language is the state, the domination of the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the drawing of Ukraine into economic and military-political organizations. No doubt, Moscow has succeeded a lot. But the outcome of the Ukraine-EU summit in February, as well as Kiev’s persistent attempts to move away from critical dependence on Russia in the energy sector, turned out to be far from the result that the Kremlin expected. Drawing Ukraine into the Customs Union is actually frozen. Interest in the military-political bloc - the CSTO - is not shown. Only a palliative was achieved.

And here again in the course went aircraft. Not the only victim, of course, but in the package with political and other economic arguments. A concomitant reason should be sought in the intractability of Ukrainians - Moscow has already spent a lot of time and effort on gaining control over the Kiev Antonov Design Bureau (the two Russian production plants are of little interest if there is a whole horde of their own). It has long been no secret to anyone: throughout the entire post-Soviet territory, only two design bureaus are preserved throughout the entire chain of development and production of aircraft: Antonov and Sukhoi. But the Sukhoi design bureau seriously can only deal with military vehicles (those who oversaw the project to create the Sukhoi Superjet-100 passenger aircraft, inevitably recognize this). While the traditional profile of Antonov Design Bureau - military transport and regional passenger aircraft. Therefore, pressure on the industry has a double benefit: both as a political slap to the state, and as a bridle for an unforgiving partner. In fact, the Ukrainian aviation industry has traditionally made big bets on the Russian market. But, by chopping down their orders and prospects, Russia will forever lose the ability to remain among the producers of competitive military transport and regional passenger aircraft.

The demarche trick, by the way, has been worked out for a long time. So, in 2006, Russia has already officially left the An-70 project. Formally, the military, led by then-Commander of the Air Force of the Russian Federation, General Vladimir Mikhailov, spoke of a number of discrepancies in tactical and technical characteristics. In fact, the refusal was part of Ukraine’s “punishment” for its Euro-Atlantic integration and a desire to become a member of NATO. It is curious that as soon as the danger of Ukraine’s movement to NATO passed, in 2009 the Russian side not only returned to the project, but also recognized that the An-70 remains the best military transport aircraft in the world. Statements by General Mikhailov (the author pays particular attention to a specific general, probably a hostage situation, because a whole range of Russian military - from ex-commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, army generals Anatoly Kornukov and Peter Deinekin to the deputy defense ministers of the Russian Armed Forces army generals Anatoly Sitnova and Aleksey Moskovsky, the An-70 project was unequivocally supported, despite the politicians) were either declared untenable or obsolete. True, some specific technical notes by the developers have been eliminated. As a result, a document appeared in 2012, removing all past contradictions and opening the way to mass production. Of course, by the time Russia returned to the project, the main competitor to the An-70, the A400M European aircraft had a whole bunch of problems, and the project itself was on the verge of collapse. But now, according to experts in the aircraft industry, Russia's demarches have already “stolen” from An-70 for seven years. Just those years that would allow him to stay ahead in the A400M market. It would not be superfluous to emphasize that this is not about a purely Ukrainian aircraft, but about a Ukrainian-Russian aircraft, whose triumph in the market could be a real victory for the two states.

Features of the 2013 Ice Age

If in 2006, An-70 was chosen for the slaughter, and the rest of the projects continued quiet, mutually beneficial interaction between the aircraft manufacturers of the two states, now it is a collapse along the whole front. It is possible that in this fact one should look for the roots of another intrigue with an independent plot, developing, it is possible, even outside the control of the Kremlin. To understand the mechanics of what is happening, we will do a quick overview of the situation.

At one time, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ordered the aviation industry 10 An-140 aircraft in the military version (the Antonov State Enterprise provides design support and delivery of car kits). Moreover, unofficially, the military department announced an increase in this order to 62 aircraft. It also expressed its readiness to take control of the start of serial production of the upgraded heavy transport An-124 Ruslan (to start an expensive project). Another mutually beneficial issue was actually resolved with the leadership of the Russian military department - the acquisition of the second instance of the world's largest aircraft, the An-225 Mriya. This corresponded to the aircraft building ambitions of the Russian Federation and was beneficial for Ukraine to advance for the money An-70 and his "younger brother" - the new An-178 military transport aircraft with a carrying capacity of 15-18 tons, with excellent prospects, experts say. Finally, in 2012, the most important issue was resolved - the start of mass production of the An-70. For this, the Russian side decided on the "production site" - Kazan aviation Production Association named after Gorbunov. Note that in all these projects, the participation of the Russian aviation industry was provided for the maximum possible, in all cases, including the production of An-148/158 aircraft, the loading of serial enterprises of the Russian Federation was assumed. Say, 70 billion rubles were allocated only for the preparation of the An-12 production. (I wonder where they will go if the abandonment of the An-70 does happen?).

But politics was involved in the matter ... According to M. Zurabov, at first the Russian Defense Ministry proposed to purchase 70 units. An-70, then - 60 machines, the penultimate time - 16. Now - zero. Because Russia began to produce its military transport aircraft IL-476. It can be seen that someone very persistently painted Russian President Vladimir Putin with a bright prospect Il-476, since he enthusiastically called this air car "the first practically new aircraft that the Russian aviation industry has produced in the last twenty years." And in vain the head of the Russian state was so inspired. Because, in the first place, with this phrase, he admitted that all the aircraft-building design bureaus in Russia are indeed "lying." And secondly, he framed himself coolly (or rather, his entourage set him up), calling the modernization of the old one a new plane.

IL-476 is good because it was created at the time when the design bureau was developed and strong, and the design school was complete. Recall that the Il-76 was developed under the guidance of the outstanding Soviet designer Heinrich Novozhilov (the legendary Sergey Ilyushin in fact managed in 1967 only to approve the technical characteristics of the aircraft, giving way to the general G.Novozhilov in 1970). But no matter how beautiful the Il-76 was, it made its first serial flight back in May, the 1973. That is, 40 years ago! And we must understand that strengthening the wing, increasing the flight range by a thousand kilometers and modernizing control automation cannot make it a new machine.

However, it's time to return to the intrigue. Many people associate drastic changes in the situation with the appointment of Sergei Shoigu to the post of Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. However, even under his predecessor Anatoly Serdyukov, the Ilyushin Design Bureau received an order for the X-NUMX Il-39 aircraft and, accordingly, the favor of President Putin. Evil tongues in the Russian Federation insist that the aviation industry (represented by the United Aircraft Corporation) is ready to cooperate with Ukraine, but irreversible changes began in Russia itself after the appointment of the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation and the head of the RF Military Industrial Commission Dmitry Rogozin in December in 476. Back in the days of the performance of the role of the representative of the Russian Federation at NATO, D. Rogozin was notable for his particular dislike for Ukraine. But the matter, as Russian aircraft builders say on condition of anonymity, is not that. And the fact that Mr. Rogozin, being a relative of the head of the Ilyushin Design Bureau Viktor Livanov, “pushed” for him the position of general designer for military transport aircraft. Gradually, Mr. V.Livanov, with the support of an influential relative, began to play a much larger role than just the head of one of the Russian aircraft-building design bureaus. In particular, the implementation of the contract from the Defense Ministry for the supply of X-NUMX Il-2011 aircraft, according to analysts, will be carried out through the redistribution of resources. And not any, but those that were previously intended to manufacture modernized An-39. Thus, two Antonov planes are forced out of the market in one movement. However, not so long ago, Mr. Livanov endorsed a document prescribing to independently upgrade Ruslan - to the version of An-476-124М. Unprecedented courage, taking into account the issue of safety.

Meanwhile, the third Antonov project - on deliveries of the An-140 party of the RF Ministry of Defense - representatives of the new lobby intend to cancel by re-promoting the IL-112 aircraft (of course, with the re-allocation of funds, as previously allocated irretrievably sunk into oblivion). And nothing, that An-140 is already flying (the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation delivered four cars), and the Il-112 is still on paper. Yes, and the possibility of its creation is very doubtful - after all, Putin himself admitted that for the 20 years they have not created anything. But it seems that the Rogozin-Livanov team intends to transfer all possible projects to the Ilyushin Design Bureau. And the decision, as noted by the Deputy Minister Yuri Borisov, was expected by 1 in July 2013 in addition to the release of IL-476 instead of An-70, the modernization of An-124 without GP Antonov, replacing the military version of An-140 with non-existent IL 112 is also on the list of the notorious "MTA", an aircraft project that has been leading the way for Indian partners for a good decade. Even the managers of Russian aircraft factories have the impression that the aircraft-building lobby that was born in Russia has long been playing its own game.

By the way, this is not the whole idea-fix. The fact is that in Russia, an obsessive idea has developed to obtain documentation and equal intellectual rights to aviation projects joint with Ukraine. For example, recently the state-owned enterprise Antonov, meeting this persistent idea, gave such rights to modernize cargo hatches on the An-140 aircraft. Equal intellectual rights of the Russian side are also recorded on An-70. But how far will this idea go, and what kind of blow can be expected if the intention to independently prolong the life, maintenance and modernization of all Antonov aircraft produced and flying in the Russian Federation is walking now in Russia. These are An-140, An-148, An-158, An-124 and obsolete - An-24 and An-26. Moreover, if such a task is lobbied at the very top, after the influence of Ukraine’s aviation industry policy, implementation of the intention of “buying up” engineering personnel may follow.

Of course, one of the goals of the directors of this airplane mystery is to "bring to the knees" the Antonov company, if only by cutting off control of their own projects and drastically reducing the level of cooperation with Ukraine. To achieve a more global goal in the Russian Federation, a change in legislation is expected with a view to granting the rights to general designers to carry out work, including in the field of modernization and design support of foreign-made aircraft.

To avoid illusions

But if anyone really thinks that an equal sign can be put between An-70 and Il-476, he should read at least the statistics. Back in 2003, the An-70 set six world load capacity records, among other things, by lifting 55 tons of cargo to the height of 7355 m on tests. The An-70 surpasses even А400М in fuel efficiency. An-70 is capable of transporting 98% of the main types of armaments available (according to a special list worked out by the RF military and developers several years ago), and IL-476 - only 70%. If we talk about the nomenclature of armaments, then An-70 takes aboard 19 units of equipment, and IL-476 - only 9. The fact is that the cross section of the cargo compartment of the IL-476 is substantially less than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An-70, C-17, A-400М and even Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of GP "Antonov"). In reality, it looks like this: Buk air defense missile system, T-90 tank, MSTA-S self-propelled artillery, Tunguska anti-aircraft missile and cannon system and almost all modern An-70 radars take on board, but the Il-476 does not . Yes, IL-476 will be able to take some of the weapons disassembled. But the war in the Caucasus, and other military conflicts have become a vivid demonstration of the need to introduce the operational landing slogan "From the sky - to the ground - into battle!" Otherwise, the weapons brought may simply become trophies of the enemy. By the way, the Russian military themselves admitted that the return to the An-70 project in 2009 (immediately after evaluating the active phases of the Chechen conflict and the Russian-Georgian war) is precisely due to the ability of An-70 to deploy ready-made weapons. In addition, An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: for acceleration it requires 607 m along the dirt strip and 310 m - along the equipped one. This characteristic is considered important by all world developers, and therefore C-17, A-400M and Y-20 have the ability to take off from the 900-meter-long strips, including unpaved. But the IL-476 required take-off length is 2100 m. Moreover, the aviation industry claims that on the IL-476 unpaved strips it will take off and land only empty - therefore, it will not carry out the transfer of weapons and personnel. Finally, the most significant feature is fuel consumption. In "Ela" he is 1,7 more times. The hourly fuel consumption of the An-70 is 4400 kg / hour, while the IL-476 - 8100 kg / hour. In fact (according to the Russian calculations), to perform a combat mission, you can get away with the An-70 fleet, which is half the size of the Il-476 fleet. This is despite the fact that the take-off weight of the operational-tactical An-70 is 125 – 140 t, and the operational-strategic IL-476 is of the order 210 t.

That's the whole picture. Yes, the bottleneck of Ukraine is indeed the resource weakness of the Ministry of Defense, which, due to lack of funding, reduced the procurement plans from five to three aircraft. It is precisely because of the lack of budget allocations for national defense that the An-70 has not yet flown. Unfortunately, just binding the project to the military order does not allow the aircraft to be sent around the world for a walk in the export version - at least, as a new tank "Oplot", which is not supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but it went well for export. But, as for orders for An-70, then at its cost, almost three times less than A400M, there is no doubt about them. At the Antonov state enterprise, at least three states are named, ready to acquire

An-70. But that's not the point. And the fact that in their intentions to “punish” Ukraine by abandoning its aircraft, the Russian Federation will simply end up with a military transport vehicle that is inferior to all world analogues, including the Chinese. It is interesting that a number of managers of aircraft factories, and even people in the aviation administration, looking at the war unfolded by the Rogozin-Livanov group, are confident that they simply managed to confuse V.Putin to transfer most of the orders to the Ilyushin Design Bureau. Perhaps this is so. Although a special order to consider the issue of self-modernization of Antonov airplanes without agreement with the developer and decide before the 1 of August 2013 was signed just by the President of Russia. In any case, Russia has something to lose in the face of the Ukrainian aviation industry. And it will undoubtedly lose more than it could have gained.

Author:
Originator:
http://gazeta.zn.ua/internal/samoletostroenie-kak-razmennaya-moneta-_.html?page=2&items=11
146 comments
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  1. Nicholas C.
    Nicholas C. April 8 2013 07: 25 New
    31
    Why is this punishment? Maybe just a business.

    "The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations"
    The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such.
    1. Alexander
      Alexander April 8 2013 07: 41 New
      20
      Yeah. So we also remained guilty. Some stupidity.
      1. Kolya
        Kolya April 8 2013 08: 15 New
        15
        And this is what the West is striving for, so that our ties would break economic, cultural, etc. .. And the Ukrainian oligarchs are executors of the project-destruction under the direction of the West. It is necessary to save Ukraine, it is sliding, then there will be the next Syria, and this is inevitable, the only question is when and on what scale will this blood be.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 08: 25 New
          51
          Quote: Kohl
          Need to save Ukraine

          It is difficult to save a drowning man who has tied a kettlebell to his legs and is still fighting off lifeguards. Only a miracle can save Ukraine; politicians will destroy it.
          1. INTER
            INTER April 8 2013 09: 30 New
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Only a miracle can save Ukraine; politicians will destroy it.

            There have been many such miracles in our history. I think Putin has a backup move in Ukraine.
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach April 8 2013 13: 26 New
              +6
              while he put it this way:
              On April 3, 2013, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that Gazprom should return to the project to build the second stage of the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline.

              as I understand it, they are planning through Belarus.
              1. wax
                wax April 8 2013 14: 25 New
                +3
                Shorter from Yamal through Belarus, and Ukraine chose the reverse.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. prosto_rgb
                  prosto_rgb April 3 2015 19: 01 New
                  0
                  The first branch through Belarus is laid.
                  The second was to be laid next to the first, under its place is reserved, but somehow it has not yet happened.
              2. ImPerts
                ImPerts April 8 2013 14: 37 New
                +1
                What about global politics? Everyone is screaming about business and nothing personal, but Poland said that she did not need this gas pipeline. After some time, a conversation started about the 4 and 5 threads of the Nord Stream. The EU has prepared in advance for this stage of cooperation by adopting the 3 th energy package.
                1. oleko51081
                  oleko51081 April 8 2013 18: 54 New
                  +2
                  Not about 4 and 5, but about 3 and 4, one will go to England, tomorrow we will find out the news from Holland. So it’s obvious that not fallow will lose all hopes for transit through its territory. with China, he will hold out, but he will die. And all this humor about Shale gas-myth and utopia is another state bubble. With the Association not settled in the EU, the resolved issue — aviation, space and helicopters — will die. It’s time for workers in Russia to escape.
                2. rolik
                  rolik April 9 2013 00: 05 New
                  0
                  Quote: ImPerts
                  but Poland said she didn’t need this pipeline.

                  Strange, this morning I died, how a Pole (a representative of the Polish gas corporation) was shaking his hand diligently after signing an agreement on the construction of a gas string through Poland. And moreover, it was said that the Poles themselves proposed this construction, only Russia was not ready for this. Apparently hoping for the decency of the Ukrainian connection. Though. some decency and where does it come from.
          2. AndreyAB
            AndreyAB April 9 2013 06: 53 New
            0
            That's right, I want to have the European Union from Russia as well. And of course you can blame Russia on the aircraft industry, it’s used to it, it’s to blame for how someone ceases to feed, but forgive me what Ukraine makes planes from, I did not hear about aluminum deposits in Ukraine, well, other necessary materials. And the fact that Ukraine will be destroyed by its politicians and leaders is a fact.
            1. Windbreak
              Windbreak April 9 2013 22: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: AndreyAB
              something about aluminum deposits in Ukraine, I did not hear
              And who has such deposits? In fact, for the production of aluminum, deposits of bauxite, nepheline, kaolin and alunite are needed, and they are also in Ukraine
        2. avt
          avt April 8 2013 09: 59 New
          13
          Quote: Kohl
          It is necessary to save Ukraine, it is sliding, then there will be the next Syria, and this is inevitable, the only question is when and on what scale will this blood be.

          The salvation of a drowning man is the work of the drowning man himself. How are you actually going to save, if they, even according to the article, are sure that the rescuer is drowning them? request Well, by plane - there is only business and nothing personal. At stake are budget money that Ukrainians have never dreamed of and just like that, for healthy boules, they’ll take horseradish from a plate of money. laughing The car is certainly a pity, but the campaign resolved the issue. KLA will wrap up all the money for itself in terms of rights, renewal of the resource, well, in general maintenance after construction, just like the ukrainian beloved euroopeics made with the A-400 drowning the A-7x, which is A-70, this is long money and their less and less. The groans about the deprivation of independence through business will be louder and louder right up to that scream.
          1. alexng
            alexng April 8 2013 10: 33 New
            16
            It seems that Russia has finally lost faith in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to resolve such issues independently.
            Ukraine say:
            - Let's give you a lift.
            And in response:
            - No thanks. We have no time. We are in a hurry and we will go on foot.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak April 8 2013 10: 40 New
              10
              It seems that Russia has finally lost faith in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to resolve such issues independently.

              Faith may not have been lost. They simply postponed it until Ukraine decided on whom it should follow along the history path. And in general, they did the right thing, why drag a stubborn brother into a partnership? Do not eat small, understand yourself. And when you figure it out, then you can get faith from the shelf.
            2. Sirocco
              Sirocco April 8 2013 10: 57 New
              14
              I am struck by the stubbornness and not the desire of Ukraine to decide who it is. All this fuss on two chairs, an attempt to eat a fish and not to sit there already tired of the order, apparently not only to us on the forum. Hence, such actions by our leaders. It is time for Ukraine’s business elite to decide what they want from the country and the people, if the rooster is roasted, then they are on the right track. No, then it's time to think about the people and the country, yesterday it was only spoken with Ukraine, it’s terrible what salaries there are, from 1500g to 3000g. This is in the same family. Job cuts all the way. Young people have nowhere to work. So where did Ukraine gather at such a pace? In gallops to the EU. There are no workers needed, please slaves. The goods of Ukraine are also non grata. Europe itself would rise from its knees, and Ukraine is a good market for any cheap European consumer goods. So the farther into the forest the more firewood.
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak April 8 2013 11: 09 New
                +5
                I am struck by the stubbornness and not the desire of Ukraine to decide who it is. All this fuss on two chairs, an attempt to eat a fish and not to sit there already tired of the order, apparently not only to us on the forum. Hence, such actions by our leaders.

                Do you want an option why and where did this perseverance and unwillingness come from?
                And still in the 90s it began. But Russia suffered from zapademia and took off, and Ukraine is still sick. Moreover, she is periodically planted with viruses in the form of loans and promises. It seems to me that the leadership of Ukraine already has some dividends in the west, and just like that already can not refuse them. And it can’t turn its face to Russia either - dividends will either disappear, or decrease, or the EU should remain. Therefore, they rush about. And there are actually few options for exiting their state.
                1. Kars
                  April 8 2013 14: 09 New
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  But Russia suffered from zapademia and took off, and Ukraine is still sick
              2. wax
                wax April 8 2013 14: 43 New
                +9
                Ukraine chose de-industrialization, depopulation, national narrow-mindedness, the shale revolution, EU membership, and hostility to Russia. Forward! But without Russia.
                The ignorance and greed of the elites and politicians rule the ball. Ignorance can take aggressive forms. In this case, crowds of ignoramuses destroy monuments of culture, science, history, seek enemies.
                So Russia has to toughly defend its interests. How else? Again sell gas at a price two to three times cheaper than the market for beautiful eyes?
                1. ramzes1776
                  ramzes1776 April 8 2013 15: 40 New
                  +5
                  Russia will live without Ukraine, but will Ukraine live without the support of Russia, if the latter breaks all economic ties at a time?
                  1. gladiatorakz
                    gladiatorakz April 8 2013 19: 36 New
                    -9
                    Quote: ramzes1776
                    Russia will live without Ukraine, but will Ukraine live without the support of Russia, if the latter breaks all economic ties at a time?

                    And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine? I think if the matter goes as the article describes, in 20-50 years there will be neither Ukraine nor Russia. Sad
                    1. Botanologist
                      Botanologist April 8 2013 21: 57 New
                      +2
                      Quote: gladiatorakz
                      And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine?


                      It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
                      I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?
                      1. Oleg
                        Oleg April 8 2013 22: 48 New
                        -3
                        Quote: Botanologist
                        Quote: gladiatorakz
                        And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine?


                        It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
                        I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?

                        You can start with Satan and end with green peas ... smile
                      2. gladiatorakz
                        gladiatorakz April 9 2013 09: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: Botanologist
                        It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
                        I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?

                        1. Do you have a complex? Where did I blame Russia?
                        2. It seems to be an adult. Previously read sober comments. We are discussing, I think, a serious topic that concerns both Ukrainians and Russians. And what does the fat have to do with it? Why in a serious topic behave like a gopnik?
                        On the topic now. What are the benefits of friendship with Ukraine?
                        3. Economic ties are very powerful in ALL sectors. From space to agriculture.
                        4. Science. From metal science to nuclear work.
                        5. Strengthening the military bloc. Air defense - south, west. The Black Sea is a fleet. Increase mobile reserve. A lot of everything. Reluctance to list.
                        6. Soon Russia will have to butt in the Arctic and Far East. Can she fight on two fronts? Should Ukraine disappear? And with what kind of airplanes can she transfer troops to the same Far East? Will we buy a lot of money from a Boeing?
                        Picture: in spite of my grandmother frostbitten ears. The main TROUBLE of Russian patriotism is hatred and pink media glasses. Items can be listed not 6, but hundreds and thousands. Reasonable enough.
              3. anton107798
                anton107798 April 8 2013 19: 54 New
                0
                and who said that 3000 hryvnia is a bad salary? Or do you translate into rubles and are horrified? stupid! Compare the metro fare with us and with you, tram, trolley ...
            3. Kars
              April 8 2013 12: 59 New
              +8
              Quote: alexneg
              ru in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to solve such issues independently.

              One bad thing is that this faith was dragged on for so long.
              Now, if such a decree came out back in 2003.
              It is a pity.
            4. anton107798
              anton107798 April 8 2013 19: 50 New
              -5
              I like to read how you Russian shit others while turning a blind eye to your own problems)))) Well, duck of course it's more fun, right?
              And here are the examples - Omsk tank ... no longer makes tanks
              Perhaps the last penguin is waiting for Armata and is dying of laughter from the fact that the release date is constantly postponed
              MISTRALS ... it’s generally for chickens to laugh, you can’t say anything, a strong sea power should certainly buy other people's ships
              Cars of infantry, or landing ... you can already get confused from where you just didn’t want to buy, then you and Italy, and who else is there? What about yourself? what do not produce?
              Izhevsk plant-bankrupt ... it even sounds strange to make so many Kalash and become bankrupt, where did the money go then?
              Aviation ... well, there’s a mess! Su makes passenger planes in place with the French! AAAAAAA !!! tin !!! And where is Tupolev? And Ukraine ANY does not have time to collect for you ... shame!
              Rocket and space industry. How many missiles have fallen lately? five? seven? it’s seen they’re cheap, you beat them with such enviable constancy
              And it is gentlemen, I went only on military topics, and you can still write ... there will not be enough day! Russian rubles are lying around like rubbish, and why? because the RUBLE is FOUR TIME CHEAPER CHEESE! here you have stability and everything else
              1. starshina78
                starshina78 April 8 2013 21: 58 New
                +6
                In Soviet times, the dollar was worth between 68 and 74 kopecks, but this does not mean that it really was worth it. So with your hryvnia. What is the use of how much it costs in comparison with the ruble? Nothing! Is everything bad in Russia? No, I won’t say that! Now specifically on the charges: about the Omsk Plant, it does not produce, but repairs (and why two plants - this is not the USSR, one Uralvagonzavod is enough); "Mistral" - come in handy as headquarters ships, but we buy, but it is a universally recognized world practice, someone does better, why not buy, and they don’t stand their own shipyards, they build ships, unlike the Nikolaev shipyards; BMD and BMP never wanted to buy, but for the test why - why not try, you look and you can learn something from them - this is not shameful; about aviation - you are wrong, there are new projects that are pretty decent, but ... this BUT does not mean the desire of carriers to buy Russian because of strong lobbying for Boeing and European Airbus, but the country's leadership will break this practice , well, no one will reproach about combat aircraft - they are the best; The Izhevsk Plant is working, and quite successfully, even Saigas are flying in to the USA, a new machine is on the way, but do you have all the plants in Ukraine? As far as I know, many are standing; missiles, so they not only fall here, and in America they fall and nothing, let’s get through. You are a skeptic and pessimist. It is not necessary to reproach anyone if there is a quarrel in the country itself. We in Russia will deal with our problems ourselves. already decide, but here in Ukraine. something is not visible end to the showdown. first you figure it out for yourself, and then teach others, and come to spend our rubles. We now have a lot of good and different goods, and a lot of our own, not Polish.
              2. Botanologist
                Botanologist April 8 2013 22: 07 New
                +3
                Quote: anton107798
                And Ukraine ANY does not have time to collect for you ... shame!


                At the Voronezh plant ..

                Quote: anton107798
                How many missiles have fallen lately? five? seven? It’s seen they’re cheap, you beat them with such enviable constancy


                Well, at least we are ours, and you strive to drown the French.

                Quote: anton107798
                Russian rubles are lying around like rubbish, and why? because the RUBLE is FOUR TIME CHEAPER Hryvnia! here you have stability and everything else


                You still didn’t count the rate of the Japanese yen ... By this criterion, Ukraine is generally a superpower.

                In general, we are discussing our problems here from all sides, you read other branches. And no one turns a blind eye to problems. And Antonov would love to do together with Ukraine. But ........ When did you sell Saakashvili’s weapons, did you feel like brothers or stupidly “money above all”? If the second - then nafik your planes, your national pride and all of you. If the first - then let's answer for the bazaar. And then your "boy" attempts to take us on weakly no longer fit into the framework of trust. Want stupidly "to the market" - but as many as you want. But what have we got to do with it?
              3. korm-yurii
                korm-yurii April 8 2013 22: 35 New
                +1
                We’ll greet another Natsik, hello, sad shit. Wang said about the future of Ukraine; I don’t see this.
              4. cherkas.oe
                cherkas.oe April 8 2013 23: 36 New
                -1
                You lad, on a new one to go to school, for ten years, to correct general literacy, and then write opus profoundly.
      2. anton107798
        anton107798 April 8 2013 19: 29 New
        -4
        you read the article, but you don’t understand the essence ... How was it stated that Russia will become the main creditor in designing correctly? And they began to build a plant (assembly workshop) in Kazan. Money allocated, and the result? We (I myself am an aircraft manufacturer) do not have anything, we do not build a plane on paper and shops because they already exist. but your government swelled billions where? and the people’s money, it’s ripped off everyone’s, loudly declared that our IL planes take better load and consume less fuel, and you all nod your heads in the wake of patriotism, take your noodles off your ears and who don’t remember the budget ones, but who and remember so immediately come up with an excuse for an answer.
        for Ukraine this plane is important but ... its importance is lost somewhere at the end of other important machines such as AN-140, -148, -158, -74 and many others, but this machine is needed, but you, Russia was the initiator of the resumption of the joint production and somehow it looks silly in the face of its permanent partner, that is, Ukraine.
        By the way, a good reason to answer those who write that Ukraine does not fulfill its obligations, as we see, Russia also does not graze the back in this matter
        1. alexng
          alexng April 9 2013 06: 35 New
          0
          And about the famine-it must be such rubbish that only Russia is to blame. But if you were a little more literate, you could analyze, and where else was this same famine at that time. I'm not talking about Russia, but in the United States in those years because of this same famine 17 million people were missing. At that time, the famine was spreading all over the Planet, and this must be banal, exterminating (Yu) wild, in order to dump the blame on only one country. Forum users sorry for the emotions, could not resist. Already got these Natsik pigs with their stupidity.
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm April 10 2013 22: 47 New
          +1
          Quote: anton107798
          Yes, this machine is needed, but to you, Russia was the initiator of the resumption of joint production, and it looks somehow silly in the face of its permanent partner, that is, Ukraine.

          I fully support your comment.
      3. starshina78
        starshina78 April 8 2013 19: 44 New
        +5
        And Ukraine is to blame, but not Ukraine. The Holodomor - Russia is to blame, Russian soldiers, along with soldiers of other nationalities, liberated Ukraine, dying and not sparing their lives, from the Nazis and Bandera - Russia is again to blame for destroying "Ukrainian patriots from the UPA", which by the way (and this is a proven fact) burned villages, killed people in Belarus (Khatyn is their business), that if Ukraine is not so, Russia is to blame. Gentlemen, and this already looks like paranoia. And in modern reality, the rejection of the joint design and production of AN aircraft is correct. you must support your manufacturer. And other planes, such as ANa, will design and release. On the other hand, how much can you tolerate the shyness of Ukraine, then the CU, then the EU. This leads to the fact that no one wants to have business with Ukraine. I will take my factory where I work as an example. Even under Yushchenko, we shipped products to Ukrainian plants ten times more than now. This year, only one car with spare parts for the tube mill is gone. The plant switched to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Belarus, and other countries. My wife’s very good acquaintances live in Ukraine, and they call. tell how they live. Not sweet ! “Guys, let's live together!” - I want to end with the words of the cat Leopold, because we lived together and lived normally. What Ukraine does in the EU is bad there, go to our Customs Union!
      4. rolik
        rolik April 9 2013 00: 01 New
        -1
        Quote: Alexander
        So we also remained guilty.

        it is a distinctive feature to consider all those to blame for their troubles except themselves, losers in life. Ukraine is a state - a loser, which profuced everything that was given to him at birth. And now everyone is to blame for this, except for the broad ones themselves.
        As the saying goes:
        - To a bad dancer ... the primary sexual sign prevents dancing.
    2. esaul
      esaul April 8 2013 07: 47 New
      +9
      Greetings, Nikolai hi
      The answer to your guessing question
      Quote: Nikolay S.
      Maybe just a business.
      consists in the letter, which is given in the conclusion of the article.
      There I clearly said about solving the issue of localization of the production of components.
      And here is your statement
      Quote: Nikolay S.
      The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such

      It is confirmed and explained by a line from the same article.

      And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory

      You are right, Nikolai - the guy is clearly from the Svidomo camp ...
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 8 2013 08: 11 New
        +5
        Quote: esaul
        You are right, Nikolai - the guy is clearly from the Svidomo camp ...

        Good day, Valery.

        Quote: domokl
        The article is designed for the Ukrainian audience, which has long been choked with independence and a complex of offended


        The author is simply inadequate. If the management of Motor Sich is decent and obligatory, then they work with it and conclude agreements for billions! dollars. And you have to keep in mind what kind of persecution under the power of the orange suffered "Motor Sich." On the part of the Antonov Design Bureau, sometimes as it is now heard, that even a fool should call an author. Spring, type.
        1. Andrey57
          Andrey57 April 8 2013 09: 21 New
          15
          By the way, orders for Motor Sich are also being cut - a decision has been made to produce engines in Russia. And this is correct, because there is no certainty and predictability of the actions of the State Ukraine company, which has seven Fridays in a week, and putting defense issues in dependence on an unpredictable partner is not a GUD! In addition, the Samara Aircraft Plant buys all the rights to the An-140 in a transport version, so it’s not so dark - Antonov’s planes will be produced in Russia and will be Russian. hi
      2. kris
        kris April 8 2013 10: 12 New
        +7
        How many sheep are kept on the old way: "DIVIDE AND POWER".
        Gentlemen forum users!
        Think, who benefits from finally breaking the relations of fraternal peoples?
        There are enough adequate people here and there.
        to draw conclusions about the country according to the texts from the forums, the top of insanity!
        And if you evaluate the attitude towards Ukraine by the frantic libel of some scribblers from our forum?
        1. sniper
          sniper April 8 2013 11: 41 New
          14
          Quote: kris
          Think, who benefits from finally breaking the relations of fraternal peoples?

          Yes, it’s not about the peoples ... The political elite of Ukraine has such a course that no joint projects can be successful, to my great regret ... And I think that the transfer of production of everything necessary to the territory of Russia is fully justified. Well, the country should not become a hostage to someone's political ambitions especially in the military sphere ...
    3. domokl
      domokl April 8 2013 07: 49 New
      14
      Quote: Nikolay S.
      Why is this punishment? Maybe just a business.
      Business .. But Ukrainians do not perceive everything that is done to please their loved ones as interference in internal affairs ... They don’t notice the deadlines, price increase is naturally, Prepayment is obligatory ...
      The article is designed for a Ukrainian audience, which has long been choked with independence and a complex of offended ... Normal analysts are well aware of where the draft is blowing ...
      1. Tersky
        Tersky April 8 2013 08: 18 New
        12
        Alexander, hi ! Here is a jerk of opinions from Ukrainian forums, impressive laughing
        How much can you look back at Russia ?! For a long time it was necessary to localize the production of the AN-70 in Ukraine, which we cannot manufacture ourselves to buy in Europe, and independently promote the aircraft to foreign markets. It’s necessary that you buy AN-70 Russia, you don’t want to - blame it on ... No, we are waiting for something, so the big "strategic partner" will decide to make us happy and will buy a large batch of aircraft. People, take off your pink glasses, no one will solve our problems for us. Thank God, they came to understand this in the energy sphere, God forbid, this is also understood in other sectors.
        there is generally pearl;
        It’s also nice to see the right vector of Badrak’s rhetoric style, he is glad that he is moving away from the ridiculous style of fatalism and youthfulness.
        Valentin, We are the highest grade - Muscovites are the third grade of freshness yesterday ... You said correctly - "they are exhausted and not profitable to us as a military-industrial complex donor."
        As you can see, self-propriety before the obsession ...
        1. domokl
          domokl April 8 2013 08: 23 New
          +8
          Victor, categorically hi I also looked through Ukrainian forums ... It also amuses ... There they generally live happily ... It feels like spring exacerbation, just like autumn aggravation for Ukraine has become the norm ...
          1. Sirocco
            Sirocco April 8 2013 13: 18 New
            +5
            What's this!!! I found out the news, now in Ukraine to sell a house, an apartment, it’s not necessary to contact the BTI. Notary, and the whole business then)))) There are already problems, in Yalta, they sold one apartment to two businessmen from Kiev. I don’t know how this epic will end. The situation is developing like on a field of miracles, in the country of fools. The leadership of Ukraine seems to be the one who is more robbing. The day passed and fucked with him.
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 08: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Tersky
          We are the highest grade - Muscovites third grade yesterday's freshness.

          Is he talking about fat or something laughing
          Hi Victor! Where did you get this? Give a link to the resource to read wink
        3. Krapovy32
          Krapovy32 April 8 2013 16: 34 New
          +1
          Tersky
          How much can you look back at Russia ?!
          We are the highest grade - Muscovites third grade yesterday's freshness

          This is already the norm for them, dreams ... dreams ... dreams. Du..n rumka richer lol
      2. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 April 8 2013 08: 43 New
        +5
        Quote: domokl
        Ukrainians do everything not for the sake of their loved ones for a long time perceive

        And that is true! There is no one side to rightness. And here not a word or fact of actions is given, but only opposition from Russia. Actor needs to write in such a way than Ukraine is "Wynn" in such matters, but Russia's reaction to this is so!
        Mr. Shaw Putin is trying to pinch his tail. What pontolik? The friendship of Russia and Ukraine is strategically important! He sho "belenny gossip"?

        This is a custom-made program that does not reflect the truth!
    4. Russian
      Russian April 8 2013 08: 27 New
      10
      I agree with everyone! The article is clearly anti-Russian. He gives it directly to contempt for “imperialist” Russia, which wants to capture poor Ukraine. The West’s hand comes out.
    5. klimpopov
      klimpopov April 8 2013 09: 12 New
      +9
      And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory. The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations. No doubt, Mos

      Principle further you can not read. The whole article was written just for the sake of this phrase ...
    6. Vashestambid
      Vashestambid April 8 2013 12: 36 New
      0
      Russia intends to "punish" Ukraine by abandoning the project An-70


      [media = C: UsersIgorPictures81480811.gif]
    7. Joker
      Joker April 8 2013 15: 19 New
      0
      Called-on evil mom frostbitten ears.
    8. Nevsky
      Nevsky April 8 2013 22: 20 New
      +2
      In vain, in vain ... Russia must fight for Antonov:

    9. shpuntik
      shpuntik April 17 2013 21: 17 New
      +1
      Nikolay S. April 8, 2013 07:25
      Why is this punishment?
      The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such.

      I completely agree with you! His grandfather in the "forest brothers" walked, apparently. I have not seen such impudence for a long time, it's a pity I just came across this article now. So I want to go through it, for each item. They played out with Germany: they didn’t give money, no matter what, and they didn’t let it go, instead they use the country for sex tourism. The plane is 25 years old, the plane is unique, and all these years they sat on it like a dog in the manger. There are no more words ...
  2. Denis
    Denis April 8 2013 07: 31 New
    +4
    The article is, though full of technical data, clearly provocative
    Where did the author get such news?
    As they were going to build it in Ukraine and Samara, they still did not change their mind
    Only that unfinished building would not be out of date
    Although the fate of the aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk suggests these collective-farm joint projects
  3. Clueless
    Clueless April 8 2013 07: 32 New
    12
    That's the whole picture. Yes, the bottleneck of Ukraine is really the resource weakness of the Ministry of Defense


    The bottleneck of Ukraine is that their government behaves like a cheap prostitute, then they will fall under one, then under the other, then under the third, and sometimes you want everyone at once.

    This is not Russia should ride around Ukraine. If the country can’t decide who it will be in the future, why the hell is such a partner needed? Like to promote its industry, and then once again they will turn our backs on us? There will be a lot of honor

    And I don’t need to paint about fraternal peoples, because I don’t see Ukraine behaving fraternally with us.
    1. stas52
      stas52 April 8 2013 08: 39 New
      +9
      Moscow is wrapping up its money. If it’s business, if such a breakthrough aircraft, offer Western companies to take part in its production, Ukraine is striving for the EU. Is the aircraft ready and in production? Better yet, offer it to the armies of the EU countries, because if it is such a breakthrough in aircraft construction it should be his turn. No, not worth it? Then what did you spread op across the whole county? Russia wants to develop its own production, instead of not understanding whose, well, honor and praise for such decisions.
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 April 8 2013 09: 28 New
        +2
        So they tried to push An-70 to Europe, but because of the simplicity of their souls, they showed too much technical documentation, the guys from Europe did not need more, they immediately "created" their 400 transport, which is very similar to An-70, and the latter was simply abandoned! laughing
        1. opkozak
          opkozak April 8 2013 13: 23 New
          +3
          Quote: Andrey57
          immediately "created" their 400th transport, which well, very similar on the An-70, but they simply refused the last one!

          Well, the twin brothers. lol
          Unit cost A-400 € 145 million; An-70 $ 67,0 mln.
          Engine power A400M 11 hp, An-000 70 hp
          Empty weight: A400M 70t, An-70 -73t.
          Payload A400M 37t. An-70 47 t Fracht
          Practical range, A400M km: 7220 An-70 7800 km.
          Practical ceiling, A400M m: 11280 An-70 12000 m.
          The question and why pay 2 times more. Reliability cannot be compared.
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 8 2013 14: 04 New
            -2
            Well, yes, stupid Germans sculpt their dear Mercedes and BMW, when you can take the brand and it will be cheaper.
            Give pennies!
          2. prosto_rgb
            prosto_rgb April 3 2015 19: 09 New
            0
            On the A400 is not surprising, the West always does this.
            Why maintain a competitor to Antonov if you have your own factories and your own workers, and the An-70 is cheaper and with other characteristics higher.
            That’s what their stories about competition and all that are: YOURSELF, the rest you know where.
            Incidentally, this would not hurt the West to learn from.
            And the An-70 is a pity.
    2. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq April 8 2013 09: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: Bad
      This is not Russia should ride around Ukraine. If the country can’t decide who it will be in the future, why the hell is such a partner needed? Like to promote its industry, and then once again they will turn our backs on us? There will be a lot of honor

      Speak correctly, dear, you need to raise your design bureau.
      Ukraine all the time wants to eat fish and ... sit down.
      They stole gas and pumped rights: "We want to open, we want to close."
      1. Suhov
        Suhov April 8 2013 15: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: ziqzaq
        They stole gas and pumped rights: "We want to open, we want to close."

        Stop. Wishlist - over!
        The basis of cooperation is mutual benefit.
        The leadership of modern Ukraine should not be trusted. Sometimes they behave inappropriately and even to the detriment of their own benefit.
        As a well-trained Bobik, who, having heard the owner’s whistle, begins to execute any of his commands, including those lacking common sense ...
    3. anton107798
      anton107798 April 8 2013 19: 59 New
      -6
      yes Lord! do not jump around! and then already flickering Vovochka with Dimon fed up
  4. dirty trick
    dirty trick April 8 2013 07: 37 New
    +4
    In fact, it turned out: aircraft construction was simply sacrificed to the Kremlin’s political ambitions.

    not political ambitions, but banal caution - because it is absolutely unknown what direction the Ukrainian government will shy away at the next moment.
    1. Dmitry23RUS
      Dmitry23RUS April 8 2013 10: 28 New
      +3
      They trite sold their production for scrap! It has already been written that the Ukrainian side thwarted all orders, could not do anything, everything was ready for production in our country, and Ukraine was not ready for 50%. Here let them reap the benefits of their European integration
  5. domokl
    domokl April 8 2013 07: 46 New
    13
    It’s called from a bad mind to a healthy one ... Antonov’s firm repeatedly failed to meet the deadlines for order fulfillment ... Russia is now rapidly and modernizing and re-equipping its army, aviation and navy. We simply cannot afford to depend on Ukraine, with its fun and political instability. ...
    Incidentally, pouring mud on the Ilyushin company does not paint the author of the article ... The company is working and should become the main one for the development of BTA ....
  6. Nevsky
    Nevsky April 8 2013 07: 48 New
    +1
    First, they handed over half of the country in 1991 and 20 million Russians left with factories and enterprises, now we punish our body parts that were cut off am . Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv. angry
    1. domokl
      domokl April 8 2013 07: 55 New
      15
      Quote: Nevsky
      Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv. angry
      No matter how we try to help, Ukraine perceives all our actions as the intrigues of the Kremlin ... We are reproached for collapsing and right on the contrary, for restoring ... To be honest, Russia can no longer afford to give up defense issues another state, which almost daily changes its position ...
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 08: 11 New
      +6
      Quote: Nevsky
      Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished

      Dear, let your elite roll anywhere. This is your elite — punish her, but how Russia is to blame for everything. Such an impression — I didn’t spit in the direction of Russia, I spent my day in vain.
    3. stas52
      stas52 April 8 2013 10: 14 New
      +2
      Quote: Nevsky
      First, they handed over half of the country in 1991 and 20 million Russians left with factories and enterprises, now we punish our body parts that were cut off am . Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv. angry

      As for 91: Kuchma, Shushkevich, Yeltsin, I think to remind whose presidents it is not necessary, or is Russia alone again to blame? As for the rest: the top of Ukraine is inseparable from the country, so if the top is punished, the whole of Ukraine suffers. As for Antonov Design Bureau, if Ukraine cannot develop the aircraft industry on its own, then sell it to Russia, otherwise it turns out that we will develop production for the European Union, well, no, let the money itself seek problems above the roof.
    4. baskoy
      baskoy April 8 2013 10: 15 New
      +9
      Yes, it’s not humanly! I threw the younger brother’s elder brother into a separate apartment (though I couldn’t do it at all, I threw a summer cottage in the Crimea), now he’s eating, a parasite, almost a quarter of a century! the senior "does not give money (invents that small and for a" little knife "can grab during breaking).
      It seems that Ukraine will have to go through all the circles of the European PARADISE, since someone else's example does not teach anything (Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and beyond with all the stops). It is a pity, of course, that in the end it will not be found on the map of Europe in Ukraine, except perhaps - Great Galicia!
    5. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 April 8 2013 15: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: Nevsky
      Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished.

      And the Ukrainian people put their tongue in one place. It’s only heard on the news that some “zapadentsy” are rallying and showing political activity.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza April 8 2013 20: 01 New
        +4
        Quote: ramzes1776
        some "zapadentsy" rally and show political activity.

        Communists launched a campaign to ban UPA symbols in Ukraine
        At the plenum of the Odessa regional committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, it was decided to instruct the Communist Party factions in the Odessa city and regional councils to initiate the adoption of decisions by the sessions of the city and regional councils on the ban on the territory of the hero city of Odessa and Odessa region of the symbols of the OUN armed forces, including the SS division “Galichina ", Nachtigall battalion, etc.

        This was reported by the press service of the political force.
        This decision was supported by representatives of over 20 public organizations and associations, as well as the SMERSH social movement.
        The Communists assured that the documents will be submitted as soon as possible.
        http://polemika.com.ua/news-114630.html#title
        xxxxx
        On April 6, Komsomol members and young communists marched along the central streets of Kherson in protest against fascism. It began with a rally at the monument to Lenin, walked along the central streets of the regional center to the monument to the boys from the Quarantine Island, Kherson Online reports.
        According to the press service of the Kherson regional committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, the initiator and organizer of the event was the Kherson regional organization of the Lenin Komsomol of Ukraine.
        The main slogans of youth were: "Fascism will not pass," "As long as we are united, we will not be victorious," "Lenin. The consignment. Komsomol. "," We have someone to remember, we have something to be proud of. "
        The city organization of the Komsomol is replenished every day with new young cadres. Taking this opportunity, the leader of the Komsomol members of the Kherson region Pavel Semenenko handed Komsomol tickets to young boys and girls.
        http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/227725
        xxxxx
        If you follow the last link, you can see a lot of photos. What is nice to note - "our" guys do not hide their faces under masks, unlike Svoboda!
    6. Suhov
      Suhov April 8 2013 16: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: Nevsky
      Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv.

      Panas are fighting, and at lackeys forelocks are cracking ...
      sad
  7. plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 April 8 2013 07: 54 New
    +1
    The question sounds much simpler ... Russia will allocate money for the Ukrainian aviation industry or not allocate ... the answer is simple as well ... it will not allocate ... and one more news .. there was a question on 3-4 threads of the Nord Stream ...
  8. skrgar
    skrgar April 8 2013 07: 58 New
    17
    "Strange" author .. Under the agreement, Russia was supposed to 100% carry out financing + buy. To have full control at the same time, it is a common practice in the world. For example, we have foreign investors in the same automobile industry exercise control because people invested money .. And by They gave money to “Antonov”, but nothing really was done on the Ukrainian side, they stupidly washed the “grandmothers” and raised the prices .. Why doesn’t the author write how many Russian investments “went” irretrievably into the “Antonovs”? !! .. Why there to say .. If "tomorrow" someone from Europe or shatov wants to "Antonov" to buy .. then Ukraine will run to sell it .., but if Russia expresses such a desire, then FIG will sell !! - because it is "Ukrainian-Yushchenko Yanukovych "politics .. Nothing changes there.
  9. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov April 8 2013 08: 03 New
    +3
    So, Ukraine itself is punishing itself.
    The EU is crumbling, and it rushed to the sinking ship, some idiocy.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel April 8 2013 08: 37 New
      +4
      Yanukovych is now not up to the CU and the EU. Yanukovych thinks about the SS. There is a big risk that you will have to jump over stumps in Mezhigorye not with internal security, but with external security. The coalition with the party in power was driven underground to act. Lutsenko released. But there is a big risk that the Jesuit plan for the collapse of the “Fatherland” by squabble and dual power (the Yatsenyuk rating among the population is falling, the Lutsenko rating will grow) may not work, but increase the number of supporters of the “Fatherland”. Yatsenyuk the rabbit is cunning, smart, but cowardly, understands that the confrontation with Lutsenko will destroy him as a politician, and “hot support” gives a chance for the cherished dream of the presidency. 2015 is not far off.
      So, dear citizens of Russia, I’d like to understand inside and decide on a base. In the east, or in the west, maybe in the Cayman Islands.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 08: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Lutsenko released.

        Pardoned without a pardon, normal move laughing Let Timokha still let him out for the west.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel April 8 2013 09: 40 New
          14
          SW Alexander! Who will deal with a state where the opposition remains in parliament, and the ruling party and the coalition go underground and in a safe house hold a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada secretly from other deputies and have strict face control in order to prevent deputies not members of the coalition. Nonsense. 184 present deputies received 244 status in the vote and adopted a number of laws, considering by their "concepts" that they adopted laws made "in law".
          The puppeteer Levochkin throws trial stones through the regionals (the silencer Efremov), which will ban in favor of the usurped power in order to detain it for a long time. Starting from a referendum (according to the Kivalov-Kidalovo system of “fagot”), early elections in the majority (according to the same system of “fagot”. Two-chamber parliament. The upper house-all of their own, appointees. Presidential elections from one round.
          But, the tragedy is that there is no Bohdan Khmelnitsky to withdraw Ukraine from this mess. Some Mazepa, Yushchenko, Shukhevych, Yatsenyuk, bandyuki.
        2. Egoza
          Egoza April 8 2013 12: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Pardoned without a pardon, normal move

          Well, Coke asked for a pardon with the EU! The following decision on Julia was a little delayed! And this-Lutsenko will now be active at rallies! angry
        3. anton107798
          anton107798 April 8 2013 20: 01 New
          +1
          pardoned by petition of the Ombudsman ... carefully read the news, or you do not show the whole truth? it's a pity
      2. Egoza
        Egoza April 8 2013 12: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        inside would sort it out and determine the base of the deru.

        Especially in light of the fact that at an opposition rally yesterday, members of Freedom were already openly asking when they would finally distribute machine guns!
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel April 8 2013 13: 21 New
          +4
          The Americans created al-Qaeda and Bin Laden against the USSR in Afghanistan. But they jumped out of control and the Yankees got a good gamble.
          Regionals have created the project "Freedom" with Tyagnibok so that against the background of nationalism and the division of Ukraine into the east-west, slip into power. They slipped by. But they repeated the mistake of the Americans. “Freedom” and Tyagnibok got out of control and no longer smells of nationalism, but outright fascism with calls for machine guns. Or is it a subtle game of regionals. On the outright aggression and Nazi calls of the Svobodovites, to use the discontent of the masses for their own purposes to usurp power, introduce dictatorships and "eternal rule" of the family. This unrealistically prohibitive provocative aggressiveness of the Svobodovites is alarming. Something is wrong, somewhere the pig is buried. You need to understand the main thing. All these attempts and a demonstration of mass, ostentatious, paid. The people of Ukraine simply observe the squabbles at the power trough, realizing that the color of the banners is different, but the goals are the same. Is it possible to believe those whom they once believed and who so cynically abandoned. They are all here. Only the flags have changed. We wait. There are few real violent ones, and there are no leaders.
  10. igor12
    igor12 April 8 2013 08: 13 New
    +2
    It’s strange how Ukraine looks at us, a handful of officials separated the country from Russia without taking into account the opinion of the people, now they shout to us that we owe them something. As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. Is it easier to unite with Russia even by joining the Euro-Atlantic alliance, of course it is clear that there can be no talk of a merger of the two states. But no, we are not brothers.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 08: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: igor12
      As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. So is it easier to unite with Russia even if you join the Euro-Atlantic alliance

      No, it’s not easier, if you enter the vehicle, the holes on the torn pants will lose their independence.
      By the way, what is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? maybe you mean Eurasian.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza April 8 2013 12: 39 New
        +7
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        No, it’s not easier, if you enter the vehicle, the holes on the torn pants will lose their independence.

        Well, not really holes! For example, the son of Yanukovych for the 4 year already "scraped" according to the official declaration of property of 198 millions! And having entered the TS, the opportunity to "independently" tyry at the people will be really lost!
      2. mamba
        mamba April 8 2013 14: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        What is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? maybe you mean Eurasian.

        Apparently, Igor 12 had in mind a promising new association based on the North Atlantic and Eurasian Unions. laughing But, we still need to live up to this, and time is working against Ukraine. recourse
  11. Belogor
    Belogor April 8 2013 08: 33 New
    +4
    Indeed, in the article the red line shows only insult. And the arguments are either far-fetched or rigged.
  12. cerko
    cerko April 8 2013 08: 36 New
    +2
    the author initially posits Russia and Ukraine as two different representatives, different civilizations, ways of thinking, minutiales, and yet this is one divided people, legally i.e. conditionally.
  13. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik April 8 2013 08: 39 New
    +1
    Kind! I have nothing against Ukraine, but they so eagerly and persistently want to be independent, that you are simply amazed! Guys, Ukrainians, do you seriously think that you are not dependent on Russia, that you can without commodity circulation with it? Unfortunately, many post-Soviet countries consider themselves independent of the Russian Federation, it is extremely dependent on it !!! Why resist?
  14. cerko
    cerko April 8 2013 08: 43 New
    +2
    We live in the modern world, but the laws of history are not unstable, and if you look through the prism of centuries, there is no person who condemns the unification of the Russian principalities, and who said that it was voluntary
  15. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik April 8 2013 08: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: igor12
    It’s strange how Ukraine looks at us, a handful of officials separated the country from Russia without taking into account the opinion of the people, now they shout to us that we owe them something. As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. Is it easier to unite with Russia even by joining the Euro-Atlantic alliance, of course it is clear that there can be no talk of a merger of the two states. But no, we are not brothers.


    Man, what is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? I know the North Atlantic, mb. I didn’t understand something? decrypt pliz, for self-education I want.
  16. Gemar
    Gemar April 8 2013 08: 47 New
    +4
    Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of GP Antonov)

    This is the most dangerous thought in the article. The authors do not criticize the refusal of the Russian Federation from the AN-70, but look for a reason for selling documentation for the cordon.
    By the way, how is it that the serial Y-20 is better than the IL-476 ??? I don’t care what to write, if only to inject more painfully with the "occupier"? And what kind of fashion went to compare turboprops and jets ??? AN-70 and IL-476 should occupy different niches. Ideally, you need both aircraft complementing each other, for harmony, so to speak.
    At the Antonov state enterprise, at least three states are called for acquisition

    And among them, of course, China.
    It was the Ukrainians who received money (even if not as much as they wanted) from the Russian Federation on the AN-70 and didn’t even say thank you ... Now the Chinese are in turn. Only the latter will not allow themselves to be fooled, in about five years, they will lift into the sky an analogue of "their own development."
  17. fellow misha
    fellow misha April 8 2013 08: 51 New
    +8
    Yes, yes, they did. They collected IL-76 in Tashkent, Ruslans in Ukraine, RAFiki - the Baltic states riveted, and what's the bottom line? As soon as the "vector" of direction changes again, to remain like that old woman from the tale of the great Alexander Sergeyevich? Once upon a time, for all these Tashkent, Kiev, etc. aircraft builders, factories were built by Russia, we will also build for ourselves. While the An 70 is perhaps better than 476, but the latter is completely Russian and does not depend on any “vectors”, that’s the whole difference, and in a little while we will have the most-most military transport.
  18. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek April 8 2013 08: 52 New
    +7
    but where does the "punish"? we have our own aircraft with similar characteristics naturally that we will support our manufacturer. EPT, more than 20 years have passed since Ukraine declared independence, and so far Russia owes something. Yes, live your own state as you want!
    1. fellow misha
      fellow misha April 8 2013 09: 09 New
      0
      I put the "minus" by accident, but the plus of course
  19. NIKOLAI T
    NIKOLAI T April 8 2013 08: 58 New
    +2
    There are a lot of buccaffs, but it’s clear from the first that the verbose, fabulous author craps on Russia.
  20. engineer74
    engineer74 April 8 2013 09: 05 New
    +3
    "An-70 takes on board 19 units of equipment, and IL-476 - only 9."
    Is it rubber? belay
    An-70, IL-76 (476), C-17 are all aircraft of different classes, the author compared warm to soft. Competence is in doubt ... what
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak April 8 2013 10: 24 New
      +7
      Yeah. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?
      1. avt
        avt April 8 2013 11: 44 New
        0
        Well, you could have guessed it yourself request Naturally "Hold" laughing laughing
      2. Oleg
        Oleg April 8 2013 13: 52 New
        -1
        Quote: Wedmak
        Yeah. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?

        Just read it carefully .... from, say, 30 vehicles will enter 19 in An, and Il-9 because of the size of the cargo compartment ...
  21. Nevsky
    Nevsky April 8 2013 09: 11 New
    +2
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    Lutsenko released.

    Pardoned without a pardon, normal move laughing Let Timokha still let him out for the west.


    Today I wrote a large article about the actions of Yanukovych and his fate in connection with the release of Lutsenko, but the admin didn’t miss her on the site "Military Review" sad
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 April 8 2013 12: 34 New
      0
      Thank you, but it’s a painful question ... highly specialized. Nam (I'm not an admin at all smile , just a visitor) and in such articles to read about which of the clowns where he gathered and with whom he "blocked" dreary and tiring. All this democracy is a stupid theater that has no influence on anything. It’s pointless to follow the permutations in it. Funny for someone, but completely useless ...
  22. nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 April 8 2013 09: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Dwarfik
    Ukrainians, you seriously think that you are not dependent on Russia,


    The guys have no time to enter politics at a serious level.

    They are trying to solve issues at the level of “checkmate in 3 ways”!
  23. wulf66
    wulf66 April 8 2013 09: 26 New
    +2
    Offended ... Politicians in Ukraine cause a sense of disgust. The people of Ukraine have sympathy, but each nation deserves its own government.
  24. as3wresdf
    as3wresdf April 8 2013 10: 00 New
    0
    The base of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of all citizens of the Russian Federation on this site twitlink.ws/baza and most importantly did something like searching for lost relatives, but here is all the information about each of us: correspondence with friends, addresses, phone numbers, place of work, and what’s worst is even mine exposure of photos (I don’t know where from ...). In general, I was very scared - but there is such a function as “hide data”, of course I took advantage of it and I advise everyone not to hesitate,
  25. vostok1982
    vostok1982 April 8 2013 10: 04 New
    +7
    What did the author want? So that later the Ukrainian “partners” fused the results of joint work (and almost 100% of unilateral financing from the Russian Federation) for some Chinese people for beads? Who needs it. If our traitors' leaders want to develop high-tech industries, and not just sell slaves and prostitutes, then they should immediately join the CU. Entirely and completely and without conditions. This is the only chance for Ukraine not to become an African republic in a generation.
  26. Averias
    Averias April 8 2013 10: 05 New
    +2
    Again the West is on hand, and I won’t be surprised that they had a hand in it. It is enough to see how things are going with the aviation industry. Although what it is about, the fact that Lutsenko was released speaks volumes. And if you look at what tricks they’re not throwing at us, how much they tried to denigrate our nuclear reactors, it didn’t work out. How much they shouted that our space industry is bursting at the seams - and on the rover, our main device. And Western experts unanimously say that he has no analogues. Ion engines (to correct satellites) were invented by ours. In the military industry, we also largely wipe our nose, and it was not in vain that we took second place. Yes, a lot of things. And aviation is such a tidbit, such money. They tell us they bought a Boeing or some other plane. But in fact, they did not buy it, but rented the engines, with those maintenance and spare parts. And this is all the money and what. Why sell an airplane is not profitable. But according to this scheme, profit is secured. And there are leverage. But for Ukraine it’s a shame, some kind of phantasmagoria, with signs of paranoia.
  27. Mhpv
    Mhpv April 8 2013 10: 20 New
    +5
    Panove Valentine Bardak oh Get out Badrak!
    Alas, you are not Putin and therefore not the president, and therefore it is not for you to tell him which decisions to make.
    Recently, Ukraine is more and more reminiscent of Antoshka (prepare a spoon for dinner), and adequate citizens of Ukraine will forgive me. Do you want pills for greed and more or nothing more and pay nothing for all this? Ask Europe to help promote this project and see what will be your profit.
    Our country should not depend on the windy bride who does not know who to sell her aging virginity more expensively.
  28. Alekseev
    Alekseev April 8 2013 11: 07 New
    +4
    And what about Russia and the protracted (failed) An-70 project?
    Make a finished product - a transport plane and use it yourself, as well as sell wherever you want.
    And if Pan Badrak you have a mess more than in Russia, or dumb pennies, then play in this project according to Russian rules.
    Who pays, he orders the music.
    And you don’t have to pay pennies, and yet the right to download is not productive. As one great Ukrainian wrote, “we saw some kind of bungalows and scoundrels”
  29. afpaz
    afpaz April 8 2013 11: 09 New
    +4
    The mess is deceiving, the Superjet turned out to be an order of magnitude better than the foreign An-148/158. Despite the gigantic “anti-PR” from Ukrainians, corrupt “magazines ...” and, unfortunately, workers almost ruined by the owners of the design bureau, this domestic plane was made modern, at the world level, it sells well. Mandatory in the new technology "childhood illnesses", less than what was on Soviet aircraft. It was possible to maintain design and manufacturing competence in the Russian Federation, despite the inadequate budgetary funding of the GSS project. And I really wanted to work closely with Ukraine in the future, when it becomes economically “independent”, and for now, Russia is financing the projects of the country, all of whose rulers stand behind us.
  30. Vovka levka
    Vovka levka April 8 2013 11: 15 New
    -4
    War is nonsense, the main thing is maneuvers.
  31. Algor73
    Algor73 April 8 2013 11: 21 New
    +2
    I am always for cooperation with Russia. But it’s a pity that such a powerful airline becomes the intrigue of political games. And the development of aircraft there is unique. It's a shame that in order to survive Antonov will simply merge the technical documentation to another country, such as China, by releasing 2-3 series aircraft (such as the Zubr project). The author is right only in that both countries lose.
  32. Svatdevostator
    Svatdevostator April 8 2013 11: 28 New
    +1
    We need to develop our own military transport aviation! Ilyushinsky Design Bureau is a good option. We need the army to develop and supply our armaments. And not someone else !! Tomorrow the west will tell Ukraine not to supply any aircraft or spare parts for them and what then we will do, fly on junk ?
  33. avt
    avt April 8 2013 11: 47 New
    +2
    Quote: Wedmak
    gu. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?
    Well, no words! requestSo hard to guess ?! The answer is simple and straightforward. Naturally, "Hold"! laughingAyayay! Shame on my friend. laughing laughing
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak April 8 2013 12: 25 New
      +3
      Yeah, and if you ram, then a dozen armored personnel carriers will enter. And as in the joke:
      -And now, dear passengers, we will try to take off with all this!
  34. tarks
    tarks April 8 2013 11: 58 New
    +5
    The author contradicts himself, especially when he threatens ideology. Not his horse, in short.
    In any case, Russia has something to lose in the face of the Ukrainian aviation industry.

    Of course have. Who argues. But Ukraine is "constitutionally striving for the EU" and, therefore, in nature.
    And Nata of Russia is only a “partner” - here I stopudovo agree with Rogozin - military equipment, especially high technology, should be at the maximum of its own production. so headquarters ... or the EU or military aircraft from Antonov.
    Threat.
    And then Livanov, by the way? Livanov, if that ... doesn’t do very well.
  35. DAOSS
    DAOSS April 8 2013 12: 36 New
    -12
    Yes, it didn’t work out well! The plane is also a pity to Russia, Antonova herself put in the position that they now have one way to sell the AN-70 to the West.
    Here, many people write nothing personal, only business, SO SO WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE ON THE NEW AN-70, AND YOU ARE ON OLD ILs (which, by the way, are in the ten most unreliable aircraft in the world by the number of accidents)
    BECAUSE DO NOT BE OFFEND THAT YOU WILL TELL ANYTHING PERSONAL, THIS IS ONLY BUSINESS !!!
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv April 8 2013 12: 45 New
      13
      The West will ride on Boeing and Airbuses, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt)
      1. Oleg
        Oleg April 8 2013 14: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: mhpv
        The West will ride on Boeing and Airbus, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt) ss
        With this approach to aviation, we will soon all transfer to A and B, but Russia is already on them, although Ukraine too ...
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv April 8 2013 14: 14 New
          +1
          In the USSR, once there were only three B-29s, and then bam and Tu-4.
          So many of us see the future in the future
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak April 8 2013 12: 54 New
      +6
      The plane is also a pity to Russia, Antonova herself put in the position that they now have one way to sell the AN-70 to the West.

      Yeah, Russia, as always, is to blame. They did not give money for revision and launch in a series, just something.
      SO SO WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE ON THE NEW AN-70

      The West will ride on its transporter, the design of which will be lowered .. on the AN-70. And you will shrug your shoulders bewildered - how so ...
      YOU ARE ON OLD ILs (which, incidentally, are among the ten most unreliable aircraft in the world by the number of accidents)

      Oh really? On the old ones? But nothing that 476 will go into the series? New cars will be built.
      And the fact that he is not reliable ... Well, well, do you believe yourself? ILs have always been extremely reliable and unpretentious in maintenance. Starting with IL-2, ending with IL-96.
      BECAUSE DO NOT BE OFFEND THAT YOU WILL TELL ANYTHING PERSONAL, THIS IS ONLY BUSINESS !!!

      Russia has already said so to Ukraine. So do not be offended.
    3. avt
      avt April 8 2013 12: 59 New
      +7
      what Well, when there is nothing to say, but I really want to ... fool The West will NEVER ride the An-70. There you have already been buried and launched into the A-400 series, but worse than ours.
      Quote: mhpv
      The West will ride on Boeing and Airbuses, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt)

      laughing It is harsh, but true, especially in the light of the elimination of illiteracy in moving westward, in particular the An-7x of the recessed A-400 m. But let it fly in thoughts, it’s a diagnosis, there’s no reason to argue.
    4. katran666
      katran666 April 8 2013 13: 04 New
      +2
      DOCHTORAAAAAA !!!!!!
    5. Ragnarek
      Ragnarek April 8 2013 13: 17 New
      +1
      do you believe that?
    6. tarks
      tarks April 8 2013 13: 20 New
      +1
      It didn’t work out well in the 90s. And this is already so, stupidly a consequence of.
    7. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 April 9 2013 12: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: DAOSS
      WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE THE NEW AN-70

      Who needs FIG in the west then, is there their own aircraft industry ???
  36. elmi
    elmi April 8 2013 12: 43 New
    +4
    Once again, I regret that there is no single state as in the USSR, so I would not have to divide yours into mine.
  37. Evgeniy46
    Evgeniy46 April 8 2013 12: 49 New
    +8
    I'm tired of regularly reading about the whining on An-70 / 140. An-148 at least more or less successful turned out. An-70 have been made for 25 years already and will not be completed at all. During this period, we have already launched the production of IL-76MD-90A. An-140 in the Air Force a few pieces, in the civilian, he suffered several wrecks. And we have IL-114, and in the future, IL-214 (MTA).
    In order for Ukraine to receive large orders from Russia, it needs to stop trying to sit on two chairs. Otherwise, it simply does not make sense to give money to the Ukrainian aviation industry - there will still be no sense. At least, their leadership does not consider us Slav brothers. In general, either Ukraine is with us and then receives orders, or with Europe, and then we launch our projects in a series
  38. dmitreach
    dmitreach April 8 2013 13: 05 New
    +1
    And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory.

    I mastered up to this point. Boring further. On Inosmi such "creativity" flows over the edge and there are spring trolls. Sometimes it’s not clear who has the aggravation, the authors of articles, or some commentators with InoSmi.

    According to sabzh: what do these Svidomo protoukry want? I'm talking about inadequate. First of all, they hurt themselves. (such in a special shirt and a room with soft walls. And haloperidol in medals, but more so as not to be crippled.) Throw yourself kakashki and call it noble no dependence on Russia? Receive - sign. Themselves, so themselves. And while we with the Hindus still BraMosov with PAKFA navoi or bake ships. And this is until Lobov rots against the wall and An70 does not fly, so watch the fighting in the Rada.
    At the Baltic shipyard "Yantar", which is part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, the state tests of the frigate "Trikand", built on the project 11356. began, this was reported in the press release of USC.


    http://flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=142503
    http://vpk.name/news/87595_v_baltiiske_nachalis_gosispyitaniya_indiiskogo_fregat
    a.html

    Has anyone tried to calculate how many plants Russia (CCCP) built and transferred to India?
  39. tarks
    tarks April 8 2013 13: 18 New
    0
    In the 90s, the country was split, divided, now here we observe fans of different thieves.
    However, Putin and part of the Roselita, as it were, look a little like thieves, but ukroelita ... is painful, in short.
    1. dmitreach
      dmitreach April 8 2013 13: 38 New
      +1
      Yes, all of them ... a thief on a thief drives a thief. Only there are thieves mentally stuck in the 90s, and there are thieves surrendering objects.
      Someone at the Olympics is sawing, and someone is building. Also in Vladik, the same in Kazan ... In St. Petersburg, the ring road was repulsed. "Star-DSME" and "East-Raffles" in Primorye ... Full of examples.
      The same Taburetkin is a thief. It’s just that the money still goes into the army (and not something “contrary to”), and the prosecutor’s office depicts the IDB.
      And in our Parliament, "priests" do not wave the censer on their heads, a new century ... Unlike the Rada.
      Like a gritsa: feel the difference.
  40. Mhpv
    Mhpv April 8 2013 13: 43 New
    +1
    Something over the past few days of some Ukrainian authors has struck something about masochism (either the belated spring has affected, or Europe’s envy for same-sex marriage). They will leave an article about how Russia offends Ukraine and enjoys how it is whipped in soft places.
    Not tired of the shannov!
  41. Vtel
    Vtel April 8 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    In Ukraine, they want to sit on two chairs at once. Suppose that by IL's standards, our IL is worse than theirs - but it will not fly OUR to the west to enemies, but Anushka certainly feels sorry, but what color will it be (in a striped or something) when Bendera’s Ukraine is drawn into NATO?
  42. ImPerts
    ImPerts April 8 2013 14: 49 New
    +2
    Russia bought the license for An-140, as far as I know. And it is right. You must do the same with other projects.
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv April 8 2013 15: 00 New
      -2
      And do not forget to lure designers wink
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts April 8 2013 15: 14 New
        +1
        The Chinese do not lure designers. They buy samples and try to copy. And it’s better to buy technology, but it’s more difficult. And here...
        For me, a technologist is better than a constructor. There are a lot of design developments, technologies are needed. And the observance of the old.
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv April 8 2013 16: 08 New
          0
          The designer creates the technologist who embodies, so we take both wink
  43. wax
    wax April 8 2013 14: 55 New
    +1
    Ukraine as a part of the USSR was a power with a powerful industry, developed agriculture, a robust Academy of Sciences, an excellent engineering corps, participated in the steering of the USSR, had a membership in the UN. And what happened to Ukraine after a quarter century (!) Of independence. And the bottom is still ahead. In general, I already got this whine of insolvent politicians and interpreters who advertise what is no longer there.
  44. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 8 2013 14: 55 New
    +9
    Another meow - Look for your roots!

    The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations


    Maybe in order to see the problem, you need to turn the binoculars on the other side? And then it turns out that this is not the Kremlin’s intrigues, but historical truth.
    Russians in Ukraine are not guests, they have lived on these lands for hundreds of years, and these lands have never belonged to Ukraine - all this happened within the Russian Empire, and not on the lands of Austria-Hungary, or the Polish-Lithuanian formation. We are historically Orthodox and served by the Moscow Patriarchate, and not schismatics, and even less so are Greek Catholics.
    Maybe Ukraine, as a territorial-national entity, for hundreds of years historically, economically, politically and the like, has been connected and oriented to the West? Then the question arises - Was there Ukraine.
    Yes, Kievan Rus is the founder of the Russian state, but not of Ukraine. With the same success, you can offer the United States to consider the Inca state as its ancestor.

    All the “new Ukrainian” historians, analysts, and the current political elite would like to remind Krylov’s fable - “And you, friends, no matter how you sit down in musicians!”
    1. ImPerts
      ImPerts April 8 2013 15: 34 New
      +1
      As they say, Byzantium ceased to exist when they began to say that they were Armenians, Greeks, others ... Instead of the Romans, they became nationalists, national units. Empire and collapsed.
      My personal opinion is that nations big and small can only exist within the empire. Moreover, small nations can remain themselves only under the condition of being in the empire. In the USSR, in addition to national republics, there was a concept - Soviet. Like an American in the USA right now. Most interesting, we were and are for the West - Russians. Thus, the ideological bomb failed, it worked. Let's shape the future differently. Russians are so Russians. The main thing, the main observance of the main empire rule: 1) are all equal. 2) in the areas of compact residence there are special rules of conduct that do not contradict the constitution of the Russian Federation.
      I came to visit relatives in Central Asia, my habits, for example, walking naked to the waist in the yard, were unnecessary. Local Russian speakers warned me about this. I agree with that. But those who come to the central zone of Russia should understand that the burqa and the habit of loudly saying this is wrong. That no one is going to arrange a ghetto for them. And if they want, it will be fun for them. There is such a concept of “zero tolerance”, it acts at once in the American outback (remember “Rambo-1.” Either like everyone else, or home bully
  45. Makarov
    Makarov April 8 2013 15: 08 New
    +1
    This is not the place where such articles should be laid out, only those who are at least somehow connected with aviation read the first paragraph, and the article, by the way, is entertaining ..... Interesting - “Antonov” will be interesting in NATO ..... I think it’s unlikely .... And another interesting thing ... I don’t read the comments on this site, I feel like I’m Russian living in Ukraine with all my heart, but I like to blame you for dumping in Europe, which wouldn’t have a finger on me nne poked .... thu (unprintable word) .....
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 19 August 2013 12: 54 New
      0
      repeat my thoughts. Hold on!
  46. Technocrat
    Technocrat April 8 2013 15: 24 New
    -5
    Reading some online “writers” who sleep and see themselves at least as new “Brzezinski” in geopolitics, you are simply amazed. What do you think from a confrontation with Ukraine we will win politically or economically. Well, we will reach Ukraine with a point of no return, we will start the next campaign a la 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX (God forbid !!!), we will have another enemy in our rear, the question is who benefit from this. Pushing the Ukrainian people away from Russia (and this site is mainly concerned with this site), we ourselves make a gross mistake, the consequences of which we can soon experience.
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 19 August 2013 12: 55 New
      0
      so far the first adequate answer among many.
  47. sokoloff4791
    sokoloff4791 April 8 2013 15: 51 New
    +1
    ARTICLE LIKE ADVERTISING RIGHTS wink AND SO COMPETITORS HAVE TO BE DESTROYED OR ABSORBED! PUTIN DOES EVERYTHING CORRECTLY! ALMOST ME THOUGHT COMES THOUGHT IT THROUGH YANUKOVICH EUROPE BREEDS NOT WITHOUT YANUKOVICH ARRIVING WITHOUT ANY EVISIBLE REASONS wink
  48. afpaz
    afpaz April 8 2013 15: 55 New
    +1
    There is no confrontation with Ukraine from Russia. We were simply "lowered into the market", and there our own laws. Without regular Russian cash injections (An-148-Voronezh, IFC, purchase for Russian state structures, An-140-Ulyanovsk. An-70 Min.Oborona, purchase of pipes, metal, etc. to the detriment of its own industry), Ukraine would badly. And Antonov’s design bureau would probably be bent altogether. But you can’t always "turn the second cheek", and even for your own money. Big country, let them be determined. I would like to live together, there are relatives and classmates, but somehow according to the rules common to both countries. Probably, "to unite, it is necessary to separate."
  49. Mhpv
    Mhpv April 8 2013 16: 19 New
    0
    Quote: sokoloff4791
    ABSORB! PUTIN DOES EVERYTHING CORRECTLY! ALMOST ME THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT IT THROUGH YANUKOVICH WILL BREED EUROPE wink

    It seems to me that Putin is also spreading Europe through Cyprus with the help of Germany, and at the same time reminded the oligarchs where they need to dig in the “five gold” ones and not look for a field of fools. REKS-PEKS-FEKS hi
  50. lazy
    lazy April 8 2013 16: 46 New
    0
    and the plane is still a pity, and it was probably possible to do something with the an-12, and rivets its clones of the an-12, Mongolia buys s-130 (there is no alternative), the Europeans will also seize a niche with their a-400. sad. "Panas fight at the lackeys forelocks crack"