Russia intends to “punish” Ukraine by abandoning An-70 project

One of the goals of the directors of this aircraft mystery is to "bring to the knees" the Antonov company, if only by cutting off control of their own projects and drastically reducing the level of cooperation with Ukraine.

There was a time when the aircraft industry acted as a powerful unifying factor for Ukraine and Russia. The An-70 project was generally called the calling card of bilateral relations, and similar cooperation schemes were preserved unless in the space sphere. But by the spring of 2013, another round of tension in relations between the two states had matured, and the aircraft industry had once again become hostage to general political disorder. The Russian side, first through the mouth of the ambassador to Ukraine, Mikhail Zurabov, and then with a series of unambiguous actions, announced the next withdrawal from the project to create and manufacture the An-70 military transport aircraft. And not only. Practically all joint plans in the field of aircraft construction cracked at the seams, from An-140 to a megaproject to resume production of the modernized An-124 Ruslan aircraft.

What is the true reason for such blatant sabotage and betrayal of ideas that aircraft builders have been proud of for several decades? Or, in Russia, they suddenly saw the light, realizing the imperfection of joint projects with Ukraine, in order to return to the long-forgotten national developments? It turned out that aircraft manufacturing was simply sacrificed to the Kremlin’s political ambitions.

From big politics to technological blows

For two decades of independent living after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Kremlin has developed many interesting mechanisms for political pressure on the territory, considering them an unshakable zone of its interests. When it comes to Ukraine, attacks on high-tech industries and projects containing critical technologies are often used for political blackmail. But if, for example, the refusal in 1996 to supply components for Ukrainian tanksdestined for Pakistan could well be explained by the competition of tank-building schools and Russia's intention to conclude a similar contract with India, the aircraft-building demarches are comparable to hara-kiri for their own industry. However, aviation industry managers are inexorable and ready to apply a strangulation to their aircraft manufacturers, when the general paradigm is not working according to their plan.

And the plan was simple: create a vassal, fully controlled territory. The Russian language is the state, the domination of the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the drawing of Ukraine into economic and military-political organizations. No doubt, Moscow has succeeded a lot. But the outcome of the Ukraine-EU summit in February, as well as Kiev’s persistent attempts to move away from critical dependence on Russia in the energy sector, turned out to be far from the result that the Kremlin expected. Drawing Ukraine into the Customs Union is actually frozen. Interest in the military-political bloc - the CSTO - is not shown. Only a palliative was achieved.

And here again in the course went aircraft. Not the only victim, of course, but in the package with political and other economic arguments. A concomitant reason should be sought in the intractability of Ukrainians - Moscow has already spent a lot of time and effort on gaining control over the Kiev Antonov Design Bureau (the two Russian production plants are of little interest if there is a whole horde of their own). It has long been no secret to anyone: throughout the entire post-Soviet territory, only two design bureaus are preserved throughout the entire chain of development and production of aircraft: Antonov and Sukhoi. But the Sukhoi design bureau seriously can only deal with military vehicles (those who oversaw the project to create the Sukhoi Superjet-100 passenger aircraft, inevitably recognize this). While the traditional profile of Antonov Design Bureau - military transport and regional passenger aircraft. Therefore, pressure on the industry has a double benefit: both as a political slap to the state, and as a bridle for an unforgiving partner. In fact, the Ukrainian aviation industry has traditionally made big bets on the Russian market. But, by chopping down their orders and prospects, Russia will forever lose the ability to remain among the producers of competitive military transport and regional passenger aircraft.

The demarche trick, by the way, has been worked out for a long time. So, in 2006, Russia has already officially left the An-70 project. Formally, the military, led by then-Commander of the Air Force of the Russian Federation, General Vladimir Mikhailov, spoke of a number of discrepancies in tactical and technical characteristics. In fact, the refusal was part of Ukraine’s “punishment” for its Euro-Atlantic integration and a desire to become a member of NATO. It is curious that as soon as the danger of Ukraine’s movement to NATO passed, in 2009 the Russian side not only returned to the project, but also recognized that the An-70 remains the best military transport aircraft in the world. Statements by General Mikhailov (the author pays particular attention to a specific general, probably a hostage situation, because a whole range of Russian military - from ex-commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, army generals Anatoly Kornukov and Peter Deinekin to the deputy defense ministers of the Russian Armed Forces army generals Anatoly Sitnova and Aleksey Moskovsky, the An-70 project was unequivocally supported, despite the politicians) were either declared untenable or obsolete. True, some specific technical notes by the developers have been eliminated. As a result, a document appeared in 2012, removing all past contradictions and opening the way to mass production. Of course, by the time Russia returned to the project, the main competitor to the An-70, the A400M European aircraft had a whole bunch of problems, and the project itself was on the verge of collapse. But now, according to experts in the aircraft industry, Russia's demarches have already “stolen” from An-70 for seven years. Just those years that would allow him to stay ahead in the A400M market. It would not be superfluous to emphasize that this is not about a purely Ukrainian aircraft, but about a Ukrainian-Russian aircraft, whose triumph in the market could be a real victory for the two states.

Features of the 2013 Ice Age

If in 2006, An-70 was chosen for the slaughter, and the rest of the projects continued quiet, mutually beneficial interaction between the aircraft manufacturers of the two states, now it is a collapse along the whole front. It is possible that in this fact one should look for the roots of another intrigue with an independent plot, developing, it is possible, even outside the control of the Kremlin. To understand the mechanics of what is happening, we will do a quick overview of the situation.

At one time, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ordered the aviation industry 10 An-140 aircraft in the military version (the Antonov State Enterprise provides design support and delivery of car kits). Moreover, unofficially, the military department announced an increase in this order to 62 aircraft. It also expressed its readiness to take control of the start of serial production of the upgraded heavy transport An-124 Ruslan (to start an expensive project). Another mutually beneficial issue was actually resolved with the leadership of the Russian military department - the acquisition of the second instance of the world's largest aircraft, the An-225 Mriya. This corresponded to the aircraft building ambitions of the Russian Federation and was beneficial for Ukraine to advance for the money An-70 and his "younger brother" - the new An-178 military transport aircraft with a carrying capacity of 15-18 tons, with excellent prospects, experts say. Finally, in 2012, the most important issue was resolved - the start of mass production of the An-70. For this, the Russian side decided on the "production site" - Kazan aviation Production Association named after Gorbunov. Note that in all these projects, the participation of the Russian aviation industry was provided for the maximum possible, in all cases, including the production of An-148/158 aircraft, the loading of serial enterprises of the Russian Federation was assumed. Say, 70 billion rubles were allocated only for the preparation of the An-12 production. (I wonder where they will go if the abandonment of the An-70 does happen?).

But politics was involved in the matter ... According to M. Zurabov, at first the Russian Defense Ministry proposed to purchase 70 units. An-70, then - 60 machines, the penultimate time - 16. Now - zero. Because Russia began to produce its military transport aircraft IL-476. It can be seen that someone very persistently painted Russian President Vladimir Putin with a bright prospect Il-476, since he enthusiastically called this air car "the first practically new aircraft that the Russian aviation industry has produced in the last twenty years." And in vain the head of the Russian state was so inspired. Because, in the first place, with this phrase, he admitted that all the aircraft-building design bureaus in Russia are indeed "lying." And secondly, he framed himself coolly (or rather, his entourage set him up), calling the modernization of the old one a new plane.

IL-476 is good because it was created at the time when the design bureau was developed and strong, and the design school was complete. Recall that the Il-76 was developed under the guidance of the outstanding Soviet designer Heinrich Novozhilov (the legendary Sergey Ilyushin in fact managed in 1967 only to approve the technical characteristics of the aircraft, giving way to the general G.Novozhilov in 1970). But no matter how beautiful the Il-76 was, it made its first serial flight back in May, the 1973. That is, 40 years ago! And we must understand that strengthening the wing, increasing the flight range by a thousand kilometers and modernizing control automation cannot make it a new machine.

However, it's time to return to the intrigue. Many people associate drastic changes in the situation with the appointment of Sergei Shoigu to the post of Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. However, even under his predecessor Anatoly Serdyukov, the Ilyushin Design Bureau received an order for the X-NUMX Il-39 aircraft and, accordingly, the favor of President Putin. Evil tongues in the Russian Federation insist that the aviation industry (represented by the United Aircraft Corporation) is ready to cooperate with Ukraine, but irreversible changes began in Russia itself after the appointment of the Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation and the head of the RF Military Industrial Commission Dmitry Rogozin in December in 476. Back in the days of the performance of the role of the representative of the Russian Federation at NATO, D. Rogozin was notable for his particular dislike for Ukraine. But the matter, as Russian aircraft builders say on condition of anonymity, is not that. And the fact that Mr. Rogozin, being a relative of the head of the Ilyushin Design Bureau Viktor Livanov, “pushed” for him the position of general designer for military transport aircraft. Gradually, Mr. V.Livanov, with the support of an influential relative, began to play a much larger role than just the head of one of the Russian aircraft-building design bureaus. In particular, the implementation of the contract from the Defense Ministry for the supply of X-NUMX Il-2011 aircraft, according to analysts, will be carried out through the redistribution of resources. And not any, but those that were previously intended to manufacture modernized An-39. Thus, two Antonov planes are forced out of the market in one movement. However, not so long ago, Mr. Livanov endorsed a document prescribing to independently upgrade Ruslan - to the version of An-476-124М. Unprecedented courage, taking into account the issue of safety.

Meanwhile, the third Antonov project - on deliveries of the An-140 party of the RF Ministry of Defense - representatives of the new lobby intend to cancel by re-promoting the IL-112 aircraft (of course, with the re-allocation of funds, as previously allocated irretrievably sunk into oblivion). And nothing, that An-140 is already flying (the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation delivered four cars), and the Il-112 is still on paper. Yes, and the possibility of its creation is very doubtful - after all, Putin himself admitted that for the 20 years they have not created anything. But it seems that the Rogozin-Livanov team intends to transfer all possible projects to the Ilyushin Design Bureau. And the decision, as noted by the Deputy Minister Yuri Borisov, was expected by 1 in July 2013 in addition to the release of IL-476 instead of An-70, the modernization of An-124 without GP Antonov, replacing the military version of An-140 with non-existent IL 112 is also on the list of the notorious "MTA", an aircraft project that has been leading the way for Indian partners for a good decade. Even the managers of Russian aircraft factories have the impression that the aircraft-building lobby that was born in Russia has long been playing its own game.

By the way, this is not the whole idea-fix. The fact is that in Russia, an obsessive idea has developed to obtain documentation and equal intellectual rights to aviation projects joint with Ukraine. For example, recently the state-owned enterprise Antonov, meeting this persistent idea, gave such rights to modernize cargo hatches on the An-140 aircraft. Equal intellectual rights of the Russian side are also recorded on An-70. But how far will this idea go, and what kind of blow can be expected if the intention to independently prolong the life, maintenance and modernization of all Antonov aircraft produced and flying in the Russian Federation is walking now in Russia. These are An-140, An-148, An-158, An-124 and obsolete - An-24 and An-26. Moreover, if such a task is lobbied at the very top, after the influence of Ukraine’s aviation industry policy, implementation of the intention of “buying up” engineering personnel may follow.

Of course, one of the goals of the directors of this airplane mystery is to "bring to the knees" the Antonov company, if only by cutting off control of their own projects and drastically reducing the level of cooperation with Ukraine. To achieve a more global goal in the Russian Federation, a change in legislation is expected with a view to granting the rights to general designers to carry out work, including in the field of modernization and design support of foreign-made aircraft.

To avoid illusions

But if anyone really thinks that an equal sign can be put between An-70 and Il-476, he should read at least the statistics. Back in 2003, the An-70 set six world load capacity records, among other things, by lifting 55 tons of cargo to the height of 7355 m on tests. The An-70 surpasses even А400М in fuel efficiency. An-70 is capable of transporting 98% of the main types of armaments available (according to a special list worked out by the RF military and developers several years ago), and IL-476 - only 70%. If we talk about the nomenclature of armaments, then An-70 takes aboard 19 units of equipment, and IL-476 - only 9. The fact is that the cross section of the cargo compartment of the IL-476 is substantially less than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An-70, C-17, A-400М and even Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of GP "Antonov"). In reality, it looks like this: Buk air defense missile system, T-90 tank, MSTA-S self-propelled artillery, Tunguska anti-aircraft missile and cannon system and almost all modern An-70 radars take on board, but the Il-476 does not . Yes, IL-476 will be able to take some of the weapons disassembled. But the war in the Caucasus, and other military conflicts have become a vivid demonstration of the need to introduce the operational landing slogan "From the sky - to the ground - into battle!" Otherwise, the weapons brought may simply become trophies of the enemy. By the way, the Russian military themselves admitted that the return to the An-70 project in 2009 (immediately after evaluating the active phases of the Chechen conflict and the Russian-Georgian war) is precisely due to the ability of An-70 to deploy ready-made weapons. In addition, An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: for acceleration it requires 607 m along the dirt strip and 310 m - along the equipped one. This characteristic is considered important by all world developers, and therefore C-17, A-400M and Y-20 have the ability to take off from the 900-meter-long strips, including unpaved. But the IL-476 required take-off length is 2100 m. Moreover, the aviation industry claims that on the IL-476 unpaved strips it will take off and land only empty - therefore, it will not carry out the transfer of weapons and personnel. Finally, the most significant feature is fuel consumption. In "Ela" he is 1,7 more times. The hourly fuel consumption of the An-70 is 4400 kg / hour, while the IL-476 - 8100 kg / hour. In fact (according to the Russian calculations), to perform a combat mission, you can get away with the An-70 fleet, which is half the size of the Il-476 fleet. This is despite the fact that the take-off weight of the operational-tactical An-70 is 125 – 140 t, and the operational-strategic IL-476 is of the order 210 t.

That's the whole picture. Yes, the bottleneck of Ukraine is indeed the resource weakness of the Ministry of Defense, which, due to lack of funding, reduced the procurement plans from five to three aircraft. It is precisely because of the lack of budget allocations for national defense that the An-70 has not yet flown. Unfortunately, just binding the project to the military order does not allow the aircraft to be sent around the world for a walk in the export version - at least, as a new tank "Oplot", which is not supplied to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, but it went well for export. But, as for orders for An-70, then at its cost, almost three times less than A400M, there is no doubt about them. At the Antonov state enterprise, at least three states are named, ready to acquire

An-70. But that's not the point. And the fact that in their intentions to “punish” Ukraine by abandoning its aircraft, the Russian Federation will simply end up with a military transport vehicle that is inferior to all world analogues, including the Chinese. It is interesting that a number of managers of aircraft factories, and even people in the aviation administration, looking at the war unfolded by the Rogozin-Livanov group, are confident that they simply managed to confuse V.Putin to transfer most of the orders to the Ilyushin Design Bureau. Perhaps this is so. Although a special order to consider the issue of self-modernization of Antonov airplanes without agreement with the developer and decide before the 1 of August 2013 was signed just by the President of Russia. In any case, Russia has something to lose in the face of the Ukrainian aviation industry. And it will undoubtedly lose more than it could have gained.

Comments

[Nicholas C.]

Why is this punishment? Maybe just a business.

"The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations"
The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such.

[Alexander]

Yeah. So we also remained guilty. Some stupidity.

[Kolya]

And this is what the West is striving for, so that our ties would break economic, cultural, etc. .. And the Ukrainian oligarchs are executors of the project-destruction under the direction of the West. It is necessary to save Ukraine, it is sliding, then there will be the next Syria, and this is inevitable, the only question is when and on what scale will this blood be.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Kohl

Need to save Ukraine

It is difficult to save a drowning man who has tied a kettlebell to his legs and is still fighting off lifeguards. Only a miracle can save Ukraine; politicians will destroy it.

[INTER]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Only a miracle can save Ukraine; politicians will destroy it.

There have been many such miracles in our history. I think Putin has a backup move in Ukraine.

[dmitreach]

while he put it this way:

On April 3, 2013, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that Gazprom should return to the project to build the second stage of the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline.

as I understand it, they are planning through Belarus.

[wax]

Shorter from Yamal through Belarus, and Ukraine chose the reverse.

[prosto_rgb]

The first branch through Belarus is laid.
The second was to be laid next to the first, under its place is reserved, but somehow it has not yet happened.

[ImPerts]

And what about global politics? Everyone is shouting about business and nothing personal, but Poland said that this pipeline was unnecessary for it. After a while, the conversation started about the 4th and 5th lines of the Nord Stream. The European Union prepared in advance for this stage of interaction by adopting the 3rd energy package.

[oleko51081]

Not about 4 and 5, but about 3 and 4, one will go to England, tomorrow we will find out the news from Holland. So it’s obvious that not fallow will lose all hopes for transit through its territory. with China, he will hold out, but he will die. And all this humor about Shale gas-myth and utopia is another state bubble. With the Association not settled in the EU, the resolved issue — aviation, space and helicopters — will die. It’s time for workers in Russia to escape.

[rolik]

Quote: ImPerts

but Poland said she didn’t need this pipeline.

Strange, this morning I died, how a Pole (a representative of the Polish gas corporation) was shaking his hand diligently after signing an agreement on the construction of a gas string through Poland. And moreover, it was said that the Poles themselves proposed this construction, only Russia was not ready for this. Apparently hoping for the decency of the Ukrainian connection. Though. some decency and where does it come from.

[AndreyAB]

That's right, I want to have the European Union from Russia as well. And of course you can blame Russia on the aircraft industry, it’s used to it, it’s to blame for how someone ceases to feed, but forgive me what Ukraine makes planes from, I did not hear about aluminum deposits in Ukraine, well, other necessary materials. And the fact that Ukraine will be destroyed by its politicians and leaders is a fact.

[Windbreak]

Quote: AndreyAB

something about aluminum deposits in Ukraine, I did not hear

And who has such deposits? In fact, for the production of aluminum, deposits of bauxite, nepheline, kaolin and alunite are needed, and they are also in Ukraine

[avt]

Quote: Kohl

It is necessary to save Ukraine, it is sliding, then there will be the next Syria, and this is inevitable, the only question is when and on what scale will this blood be.

The salvation of a drowning man is the work of the drowning man himself. How are you actually going to save, if they, even according to the article, are sure that the rescuer is drowning them? Well, by plane - there is only business and nothing personal. At stake are budget money that Ukrainians have never dreamed of and just like that, for healthy boules, they’ll take horseradish from a plate of money. The car is certainly a pity, but the campaign resolved the issue. KLA will wrap up all the money for itself in terms of rights, renewal of the resource, well, in general maintenance after construction, just like the ukrainian beloved euroopeics made with the A-400 drowning the A-7x, which is A-70, this is long money and their less and less. The groans about the deprivation of independence through business will be louder and louder right up to that scream.

[alexng]

It seems that Russia has finally lost faith in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to resolve such issues independently.
Ukraine say:
- Let's give you a lift.
And in response:
- No thanks. We have no time. We are in a hurry and we will go on foot.

[Wedmak]

It seems that Russia has finally lost faith in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to resolve such issues independently.

Faith may not have been lost. They simply postponed it until Ukraine decided on whom it should follow along the history path. And in general, they did the right thing, why drag a stubborn brother into a partnership? Do not eat small, understand yourself. And when you figure it out, then you can get faith from the shelf.

[Sirocco]

I am struck by the stubbornness and not the desire of Ukraine to decide who it is. All this fuss on two chairs, an attempt to eat a fish and not to sit there already tired of the order, apparently not only to us on the forum. Hence, such actions by our leaders. It is time for Ukraine’s business elite to decide what they want from the country and the people, if the rooster is roasted, then they are on the right track. No, then it's time to think about the people and the country, yesterday it was only spoken with Ukraine, it’s terrible what salaries there are, from 1500g to 3000g. This is in the same family. Job cuts all the way. Young people have nowhere to work. So where did Ukraine gather at such a pace? In gallops to the EU. There are no workers needed, please slaves. The goods of Ukraine are also non grata. Europe itself would rise from its knees, and Ukraine is a good market for any cheap European consumer goods. So the farther into the forest the more firewood.

[Wedmak]

I am struck by the stubbornness and not the desire of Ukraine to decide who it is. All this fuss on two chairs, an attempt to eat a fish and not to sit there already tired of the order, apparently not only to us on the forum. Hence, such actions by our leaders.

Do you want an option why and where did this perseverance and unwillingness come from?
And still in the 90s it began. But Russia suffered from zapademia and took off, and Ukraine is still sick. Moreover, she is periodically planted with viruses in the form of loans and promises. It seems to me that the leadership of Ukraine already has some dividends in the west, and just like that already can not refuse them. And it can’t turn its face to Russia either - dividends will either disappear, or decrease, or the EU should remain. Therefore, they rush about. And there are actually few options for exiting their state.

[Kars]

Quote: Wedmak

But Russia suffered from zapademia and took off, and Ukraine is still sick

[wax]

Ukraine chose de-industrialization, depopulation, national narrow-mindedness, the shale revolution, EU membership, and hostility to Russia. Forward! But without Russia.
The ignorance and greed of the elites and politicians rule the ball. Ignorance can take aggressive forms. In this case, crowds of ignoramuses destroy monuments of culture, science, history, seek enemies.
So Russia has to toughly defend its interests. How else? Again sell gas at a price two to three times cheaper than the market for beautiful eyes?

[ramzes1776]

Russia will live without Ukraine, but will Ukraine live without the support of Russia, if the latter breaks all economic ties at a time?

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: ramzes1776

Russia will live without Ukraine, but will Ukraine live without the support of Russia, if the latter breaks all economic ties at a time?

And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine? I think if the matter goes as the article describes, in 20-50 years there will be neither Ukraine nor Russia. Sad

[Botanologist]

Quote: gladiatorakz

And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine?

It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?

[Oleg]

Quote: Botanologist

Quote: gladiatorakz

And where is such confidence that Russia will live without Ukraine?

It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?

You can start with "Satan" and end with green peas ...

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: Botanologist

It seems that fat in Russia, although welcomed categorically, but does not apply to critical products. Yes, and there is one. And what is Ukraine giving Russia today, without which kirdyk? Engines from Motor Sich, and that’s all. And then there is a substitution.
I am not an enemy of Ukraine, I have half of my relatives living there, but can I first deal with my brother and then blame Russia? Who are you with?

1. Do you have a complex? Where did I blame Russia?
2. It seems to be an adult. Previously read sober comments. We are discussing, I think, a serious topic that concerns both Ukrainians and Russians. And what does the fat have to do with it? Why in a serious topic behave like a gopnik?
On the topic now. What are the benefits of friendship with Ukraine?
3. Economic ties are very powerful in ALL sectors. From space to agriculture.
4. Science. From metal science to nuclear work.
5. Strengthening the military bloc. Air defense - south, west. The Black Sea is a fleet. Increase mobile reserve. A lot of everything. Reluctance to list.
6. Soon Russia will have to butt in the Arctic and Far East. Can she fight on two fronts? Should Ukraine disappear? And with what kind of airplanes can she transfer troops to the same Far East? Will we buy a lot of money from a Boeing?
Picture: in spite of my grandmother frostbitten ears. The main TROUBLE of Russian patriotism is hatred and pink media glasses. Items can be listed not 6, but hundreds and thousands. Reasonable enough.

[anton107798]

and who said that 3000 hryvnia is a bad salary? Or do you translate into rubles and are horrified? stupid! Compare the metro fare with us and with you, tram, trolley ...

[Kars]

Quote: alexneg

ru in the reliability of the Ukrainian partnership and decided to solve such issues independently.

One bad thing is that this faith was dragged on for so long.
Now, if such a decree came out back in 2003.
It is a pity.

[anton107798]

I like to read how you Russian shit others while turning a blind eye to your own problems)))) Well, duck of course it's more fun, right?
And here are the examples - Omsk tank ... no longer makes tanks
Perhaps the last penguin is waiting for Armata and is dying of laughter from the fact that the release date is constantly postponed
MISTRALS ... it’s generally for chickens to laugh, you can’t say anything, a strong sea power should certainly buy other people's ships
Cars of infantry, or landing ... you can already get confused from where you just didn’t want to buy, then you and Italy, and who else is there? What about yourself? what do not produce?
Izhevsk plant-bankrupt ... it even sounds strange to make so many Kalash and become bankrupt, where did the money go then?
Aviation ... well, there’s a mess! Su makes passenger planes in place with the French! AAAAAAA !!! tin !!! And where is Tupolev? And Ukraine ANY does not have time to collect for you ... shame!
Rocket and space industry. How many missiles have fallen lately? five? seven? it’s seen they’re cheap, you beat them with such enviable constancy
And it is gentlemen, I went only on military topics, and you can still write ... there will not be enough day! Russian rubles are lying around like rubbish, and why? because the RUBLE is FOUR TIME CHEAPER CHEESE! here you have stability and everything else

[starshina78]

In Soviet times, the dollar was worth from 68 to 74 kopecks, but this does not mean that it was really worth it. So it is with your hryvnia. What's the use of how much it costs in comparison with the ruble? None! Is everything bad in Russia? No, I won't say that! Now, specifically on charges: about the "Omsk plant" - does not produce, but repairs (and why two plants - this is not the USSR, one "Uralvagonzavod" is enough); "Mistrals" - useful as command ships, but we buy, but this is a generally accepted world practice, someone does better, why not buy, and their shipyards are not standing, they build ships, unlike the Nikolaev shipyards; BMD and BMP never wanted to buy, and for some reason - why not try, you see, and you can learn something from them - it's not shameful; about aviation - you are wrong, there are new projects, quite decent, but ... this BUT does not mean the desire of carriers to buy Russian because of the strong lobbying of Boeing aircraft and the European Airbus, but this practice will be reversed by the country's leadership , well, no one will reproach about combat aircraft - they are the best; "Izhevsk plant" - it works, and quite successfully, even in the USA "Saigas" are flying in, a new machine gun is on the way, and all your factories are working in Ukraine? As far as I know, many are; missiles, so they not only fall in our country, and in America they fall and nothing, we will break through. You are a skeptic and a pessimist. There is no need to blame anyone if the country is in disarray. we in russia will deal with our problems ourselves. we are already deciding, but here in Ukraine. there is no end in sight to the showdown. You first sort it out at home, and then teach others, and come to spend rubles. We now have a lot of good and different goods, and a lot of our own lard, not Polish.

[Botanologist]

Quote: anton107798

And Ukraine ANY does not have time to collect for you ... shame!

At the Voronezh plant ..

Quote: anton107798

How many missiles have fallen lately? five? seven? It’s seen they’re cheap, you beat them with such enviable constancy

Well, at least we are ours, and you strive to drown the French.

Quote: anton107798

Russian rubles are lying around like rubbish, and why? because the RUBLE is FOUR TIME CHEAPER Hryvnia! here you have stability and everything else

You still didn’t count the rate of the Japanese yen ... By this criterion, Ukraine is generally a superpower.

In general, we are here discussing our problems from all sides, you can read other branches. And nobody turns a blind eye to problems. And Antonov would love to do it together with Ukraine. But ........ When you sold Saakashvili's weapons, did you feel like brothers or stupidly "money is above all else"? If the second - then nafik your planes, your national pride and all of you. If the first - then let us be responsible for the market. And then your "boyish" attempts to take us weakly do not fit into the framework of trust. Want to stupidly "to the market" - yes, as much as necessary. Only we have to do with it?

[korm-yurii]

We’ll greet another Natsik, hello, sad shit. Wang said about the future of Ukraine; I don’t see this.

[cherkas.oe]

You lad, on a new one to go to school, for ten years, to correct general literacy, and then write opus profoundly.

[anton107798]

you read the article, but you don’t understand the essence ... How was it stated that Russia will become the main creditor in designing correctly? And they began to build a plant (assembly workshop) in Kazan. Money allocated, and the result? We (I myself am an aircraft manufacturer) do not have anything, we do not build a plane on paper and shops because they already exist. but your government swelled billions where? and the people’s money, it’s ripped off everyone’s, loudly declared that our IL planes take better load and consume less fuel, and you all nod your heads in the wake of patriotism, take your noodles off your ears and who don’t remember the budget ones, but who and remember so immediately come up with an excuse for an answer.
for Ukraine this plane is important but ... its importance is lost somewhere at the end of other important machines such as AN-140, -148, -158, -74 and many others, but this machine is needed, but you, Russia was the initiator of the resumption of the joint production and somehow it looks silly in the face of its permanent partner, that is, Ukraine.
By the way, a good reason to answer those who write that Ukraine does not fulfill its obligations, as we see, Russia also does not graze the back in this matter

[alexng]

And about the famine-it must be such rubbish that only Russia is to blame. But if you were a little more literate, you could analyze, and where else was this same famine at that time. I'm not talking about Russia, but in the United States in those years because of this same famine 17 million people were missing. At that time, the famine was spreading all over the Planet, and this must be banal, exterminating (Yu) wild, in order to dump the blame on only one country. Forum users sorry for the emotions, could not resist. Already got these Natsik pigs with their stupidity.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: anton107798

Yes, this machine is needed, but to you, Russia was the initiator of the resumption of joint production, and it looks somehow silly in the face of its permanent partner, that is, Ukraine.

I fully support your comment.

[starshina78]

And Ukraine is all to blame, but not Ukraine. Holodomor - Russia is to blame, Russian soldiers, together with soldiers of other nationalities, liberated Ukraine, dying and not sparing their lives, from the Nazis and Bandera - Russia is again to blame for destroying the "patriots of Ukraine from the UPA", which by the way (and this is a proven fact) they burned villages, killed people in Belarus (Khatyn is their handiwork), that if this is not the case in Ukraine, Russia is to blame. Gentlemen, and this already looks like paranoia. And in modern reality, the rejection of joint design and production of AN aircraft is correct. you need to support your manufacturer. And other planes, such as ANA, will design and release. On the other hand, how long can you tolerate the shuffle of Ukraine, then the vehicle, then the EU. This leads to the fact that no one wants to deal with Ukraine. I'll take my factory where I work as an example. Even under Yushchenko, we shipped products to factories in Ukraine ten times more than now. This year, only one car with spare parts for the pipe rolling mill left. The plant switched to Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Belarus, and other countries. Very good friends of my wife live in Ukraine, and they call. tell how they live. Not sweet ! “Guys, let's live together!” - I want to finish with the words of the cat Leopold, because we lived together and lived normally. What should Ukraine do in the EU, it's bad there, come to us in the Customs Union!

[rolik]

Quote: Alexander

So we also remained guilty.

it is a distinctive feature to consider all those to blame for their troubles except themselves, losers in life. Ukraine is a state - a loser, which profuced everything that was given to him at birth. And now everyone is to blame for this, except for the broad ones themselves.
As the saying goes:
- To a bad dancer ... the primary sexual sign prevents dancing.

[esaul]

Greetings, Nikolai
The answer to your guessing question

Quote: Nikolai S.

Maybe just a business.

consists in the letter, which is given in the conclusion of the article.
There I clearly said about solving the issue of localization of the production of components.
And here is your statement

Quote: Nikolai S.

The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such

It is confirmed and explained by a line from the same article.

And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory

You are right, Nikolai - the guy is clearly from the Svidomo camp ...

[Nicholas C.]

Quote: esaul

You are right, Nikolai - the guy is clearly from the Svidomo camp ...

Good day, Valery.

Quote: domokl

The article is designed for the Ukrainian audience, which has long been choked with independence and a complex of offended

The author is simply inadequate. If the management of "Motor Sich" is decent and obligatory, then they work with it and conclude contracts worth billions! dollars. And then we must keep in mind what kind of persecution Motor Sich has undergone under the Orange government. From the side of the "Antonov" design bureau, sometimes, as now, speeches are heard that at least call an ambulance to the author. Spring, like.

[Andrey57]

By the way, orders for Motor Sich are also being reduced - a decision has been made to manufacture engines in Russia. And this is correct, since there is no certainty and predictability of the actions of the State Ukraine company, which has seven Fridays a week, and it is not a GUD to make defense issues dependent on an unpredictable partner! In addition, the Samara aircraft plant buys out all the rights to the An-140 in a transport version, so everything is not so gloomy - Antonov aircraft will be produced in Russia and will be Russian.

[kris]

How many sheep are being led on the old way: "Divide and Conquer".
Gentlemen forum users!
Think, who benefits from finally breaking the relations of fraternal peoples?
There are enough adequate people here and there.
to draw conclusions about the country according to the texts from the forums, the top of insanity!
And if you evaluate the attitude towards Ukraine by the frantic libel of some scribblers from our forum?

[sniper]

Quote: kris

Think, who benefits from finally breaking the relations of fraternal peoples?

Yes, it’s not about the peoples ... The political elite of Ukraine has such a course that no joint projects can be successful, to my great regret ... And I think that the transfer of production of everything necessary to the territory of Russia is fully justified. Well, the country should not become a hostage to someone's political ambitions especially in the military sphere ...

[domokl]

Quote: Nikolai S.

Why is this punishment? Maybe just a business.

Business .. But Ukrainians do not perceive everything that is done to please their loved ones as interference in internal affairs ... They don’t notice the deadlines, price increase is naturally, Prepayment is obligatory ...
The article is designed for a Ukrainian audience, which has long been choked with independence and a complex of offended ... Normal analysts are well aware of where the draft is blowing ...

[Tersky]

Alexander, ! Here is a jerk of opinions from Ukrainian forums, impressive

How long can you look back at Russia ?! For a long time it was necessary to localize the production of the AN-70 in Ukraine, which we cannot manufacture ourselves, buy in Europe, and independently promote the aircraft to foreign markets. Russia needs to buy the AN-70, if you don’t want to - blame it ... No, we are waiting for something, so a big "strategic partner" will decide to make us happy and buy a large batch of aircraft. People, take off your rose-colored glasses, no one will solve our problems for us. Thank God, they came to understand this in the energy sphere, God forbid, to understand this in other industries.

there is generally pearl;

It’s also nice to see the right vector of Badrak’s rhetoric style, he is glad that he is moving away from the ridiculous style of fatalism and youthfulness.
Valentin, We are the highest grade - Muscovites, the third grade of yesterday's freshness ... You rightly said - "they are exhausted and not beneficial to us as a donor of the military-industrial complex."

As you can see, self-propriety before the obsession ...

[domokl]

Victor, categorically I also looked through Ukrainian forums ... It also amuses ... There they generally live happily ... It feels like spring exacerbation, just like autumn aggravation for Ukraine has become the norm ...

[Sirocco]

What's this!!! I found out the news, now in Ukraine to sell a house, an apartment, it’s not necessary to contact the BTI. Notary, and the whole business then)))) There are already problems, in Yalta, they sold one apartment to two businessmen from Kiev. I don’t know how this epic will end. The situation is developing like on a field of miracles, in the country of fools. The leadership of Ukraine seems to be the one who is more robbing. The day passed and fucked with him.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Tersky

We are the highest grade - Muscovites third grade yesterday's freshness.

Is he talking about fat or something
Hi Victor! Where did you get this? Give a link to the resource to read

[Krapovy32]

Tersky
How much can you look back at Russia ?!
We are the highest grade - Muscovites third grade yesterday's freshness

This is already the norm for them, dreams ... dreams ... dreams. Du..n rumka richer

[nickname 1 and 2]

Quote: domokl

Ukrainians do everything not for the sake of their loved ones for a long time perceive

And that's right! There is no one side of rightness. And here is not a word or a fact of action, but only opposition from Russia. Aftor should write like this than Ukraine is "vinna" in such matters, and Russia's reaction to that is!
B ehnya sho Putin is trying to pinch his tail. From which pontoleku? Friendship between Russia and Ukraine is strategically important! He sho "whites obevsya"?

This is a custom-made program that does not reflect the truth!

[Russian]

I agree with everyone! The article is clearly anti-Russian. It just smacks of disdain for "imperialist" Russia, which wants to seize poor Ukraine. The hand of the West is just getting out.

[klimpopov]

And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory. The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations. No doubt, Mos

Principle further you can not read. The whole article was written just for the sake of this phrase ...

[Vashestambid]

Russia intends to “punish” Ukraine by abandoning An-70 project

[media = C: UsersIgorPictures81480811.gif]

[Joker]

Called-on evil mom frostbitten ears.

[Nevsky]

In vain, in vain ... Russia must fight for Antonov:

[shpuntik]

Nikolay S. April 8, 2013 07:25
Why is this punishment?
The author considers this unacceptable. This is, first of all, the enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine needs to be able to calm down such.
I totally agree with you! His grandfather went to the "forest brothers", apparently. I haven't seen such impudence for a long time, it's a pity that I just came across this article. I just want to go through it, on each item. They played with Germany: they didn’t give money, no matter what, and didn’t let them go anywhere, instead they use the country for se.x-tourism. The plane is 25 years old, the plane is unique, and all these years we sat on it like a dog in the manger. There are no more words ...

[Denis]

The article is, though full of technical data, clearly provocative
Where did the author get such news?
As they were going to build it in Ukraine and Samara, they still did not change their mind
Only that unfinished building would not be out of date
Although the fate of the aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk suggests these collective-farm joint projects

[Clueless]

That's the whole picture. Yes, the bottleneck of Ukraine is really the resource weakness of the Ministry of Defense

The bottleneck of Ukraine is that their government behaves like a cheap prostitute, then they will fall under one, then under the other, then under the third, and sometimes you want everyone at once.

This is not Russia should ride around Ukraine. If the country can’t decide who it will be in the future, why the hell is such a partner needed? Like to promote its industry, and then once again they will turn our backs on us? There will be a lot of honor

And I don’t need to paint about fraternal peoples, because I don’t see Ukraine behaving fraternally with us.

[stas52]

Moscow is wrapping up its money. If it’s business, if such a breakthrough aircraft, offer Western companies to take part in its production, Ukraine is striving for the EU. Is the aircraft ready and in production? Better yet, offer it to the armies of the EU countries, because if it is such a breakthrough in aircraft construction it should be his turn. No, not worth it? Then what did you spread op across the whole county? Russia wants to develop its own production, instead of not understanding whose, well, honor and praise for such decisions.

[Andrey57]

So they tried to push the An-70 to Europe, but by the simplicity of their soul they showed too much technical documentation, the guys from Europe didn't need more, they immediately "created" their 400th transport aircraft, which is very similar to the An-70, and the latter was simply abandoned!

[opkozak]

Quote: Andrey57

immediately "created" their own 400th transport, which well, very similar on the An-70, but they simply refused the last one!

Well, the twin brothers.
Unit cost A-400 € 145 million; An-70 $ 67,0 mln.
Engine power A400M 11 hp, An-000 70 hp
Empty weight: A400M 70t, An-70 -73t.
Payload A400M 37t. An-70 47 t Fracht
Practical range, A400M km: 7220 An-70 7800 km.
Practical ceiling, A400M m: 11280 An-70 12000 m.
The question and why pay 2 times more. Reliability cannot be compared.

[Mhpv]

Well, yes, stupid Germans sculpt their dear Mercedes and BMW, when you can take the brand and it will be cheaper.
Give pennies!

[prosto_rgb]

On the A400 is not surprising, the West always does this.
Why support a competitor "Antonov" if you have your own factories and workers, and the An-70 is cheaper and higher in other characteristics.
That’s what their stories about competition and all that are: YOURSELF, the rest you know where.
Incidentally, this would not hurt the West to learn from.
And the An-70 is a pity.

[ziqzaq]

Quote: Bad

This is not Russia should ride around Ukraine. If the country can’t decide who it will be in the future, why the hell is such a partner needed? Like to promote its industry, and then once again they will turn our backs on us? There will be a lot of honor

Speak correctly, dear, you need to raise your design bureau.
Ukraine all the time wants to eat fish and ... sit down.
They stole gas and pumped rights: "We want to open it, we want to close it."

[Suhov]

Quote: ziqzaq

they stole gas and pumped rights: "We want to open, we want to close."

Stop. Wishlist - over!
The basis of cooperation is mutual benefit.
The leadership of modern Ukraine should not be trusted. Sometimes they behave inappropriately and even to the detriment of their own benefit.
As a well-trained Bobik, who, having heard the owner’s whistle, begins to execute any of his commands, including those lacking common sense ...

[anton107798]

yes Lord! do not jump around! and then already flickering Vovochka with Dimon fed up

[dirty trick]

In fact, it turned out: aircraft construction was simply sacrificed to the Kremlin’s political ambitions.

not political ambitions, but banal caution - because it is absolutely unknown what direction the Ukrainian government will shy away at the next moment.

[Dmitry23RUS]

They trite sold their production for scrap! It has already been written that the Ukrainian side thwarted all orders, could not do anything, everything was ready for production in our country, and Ukraine was not ready for 50%. Here let them reap the benefits of their European integration

[domokl]

It’s called from a bad mind to a healthy one ... Antonov’s firm repeatedly failed to meet the deadlines for order fulfillment ... Russia is now rapidly and modernizing and re-equipping its army, aviation and navy. We simply cannot afford to depend on Ukraine, with its fun and political instability. ...
Incidentally, pouring mud on the Ilyushin company does not paint the author of the article ... The company is working and should become the main one for the development of BTA ....

[Nevsky]

First, they handed over half of the country in 1991 and 20 million Russians left with factories and enterprises, now we punish our body parts that were cut off . Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv.

[domokl]

Quote: Nevsky

Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv. angry

No matter how we try to help, Ukraine perceives all our actions as the intrigues of the Kremlin ... We are reproached for collapsing and right on the contrary, for restoring ... To be honest, Russia can no longer afford to give up defense issues another state, which almost daily changes its position ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Nevsky

Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished

Dear, let your elite roll anywhere. This is your elite — punish her, but how Russia is to blame for everything. Such an impression — I didn’t spit in the direction of Russia, I spent my day in vain.

[stas52]

Quote: Nevsky

First, they handed over half of the country in 1991 and 20 million Russians left with factories and enterprises, now we punish our body parts that were cut off . Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv.

As for 91: Kuchma, Shushkevich, Yeltsin, I think to remind whose presidents it is not necessary, or is Russia alone again to blame? As for the rest: the top of Ukraine is inseparable from the country, so if the top is punished, the whole of Ukraine suffers. As for Antonov Design Bureau, if Ukraine cannot develop the aircraft industry on its own, then sell it to Russia, otherwise it turns out that we will develop production for the European Union, well, no, let the money itself seek problems above the roof.

[baskoy]

Yes, this is not human! The younger brother threw him into a separate apartment (though furnished "I just can't, and even threw a dacha in the Crimea), now it is fattening, a parasite, almost a quarter of a century! And the" little "on ecstasy, wants to switch to heroin, so miser" the elder "does not give money (he thinks that the little one can grab hold of the" knife "during withdrawal).
It seems that Ukraine will have to go through all the circles of the European PARADISE, since someone else's example does not teach anything (Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece and beyond with all the stops). It is a pity, of course, that in the end it will not be found on the map of Europe in Ukraine, except perhaps - Great Galicia!

[ramzes1776]

Quote: Nevsky

Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished.

And the Ukrainian people put their language in one place. Only one can hear on the news that some "zapadentsy" are holding rallies and are politically active.

[Egoza]

Quote: ramzes1776

some "zapadentsy" hold meetings and are politically active.

Communists launched a campaign to ban UPA symbols in Ukraine
At the plenum of the Odessa regional committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, it was decided to instruct the Communist Party factions in the Odessa city and regional councils to initiate the adoption of decisions by the sessions of the city and regional councils on the ban on the territory of the hero city of Odessa and Odessa region of the symbols of the OUN armed forces, including the SS division “Galichina ", Nachtigall battalion, etc.

This was reported by the press service of the political force.
This decision was supported by representatives of over 20 public organizations and associations, as well as the SMERSH social movement.
The Communists assured that the documents will be submitted as soon as possible.
http://polemika.com.ua/news-114630.html#title
xxxxx
On April 6, Komsomol members and young communists marched along the central streets of Kherson in protest against fascism. It began with a rally at the monument to Lenin, walked along the central streets of the regional center to the monument to the boys from the Quarantine Island, Kherson Online reports.
According to the press service of the Kherson regional committee of the Communist Party of Ukraine, the initiator and organizer of the event was the Kherson regional organization of the Lenin Komsomol of Ukraine.
The main slogans of youth were: "Fascism will not pass," "As long as we are united, we will not be victorious," "Lenin. The consignment. Komsomol. "," We have someone to remember, we have something to be proud of. "
The city organization of the Komsomol is replenished every day with new young cadres. Taking this opportunity, the leader of the Komsomol members of the Kherson region Pavel Semenenko handed Komsomol tickets to young boys and girls.
http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/227725
xxxxx
If you follow the last link, you can see a lot of photos. What is nice to note is that "our" guys do not hide their faces under masks, unlike Svobodists!

[Suhov]

Quote: Nevsky

Why did it happen? The battle for the minds is still ongoing. Ukraine cannot be left, but the imperious elite of the country must be punished. In the end, they are not collected in Lviv.

Panas are fighting, and at lackeys forelocks are cracking ...

[plotnikov561956]

The question sounds much simpler ... Russia will allocate money for the Ukrainian aviation industry or not allocate ... the answer is simple as well ... it will not allocate ... and one more news .. there was a question on 3-4 threads of the Nord Stream ...

[skrgar]

"Strange" author .. According to the agreement, Russia had to carry out 100% financing + buy. To have full control at the same time is a common practice in the world. For example, foreign investors in the same auto industry exercise control over it, because people have invested money. "Antonov" was given money, but nothing was really done from the Ukrainian side, they stupidly washed the "grandmothers" and raised the prices .. Why does the author not write how many Russian investments "went" irrevocably to Antonov? !! .. Why talk there .. If "tomorrow" someone from Europe or Shatov wants to buy "Antonov" .. then Ukraine will sell it at a run .., but if Russia expresses such a desire, then figs will sell !! - because this is "Ukrainian-Yushchenko -Yanukovy "policy .. Nothing changes there.

[Ivan Tarasov]

So, Ukraine itself is punishing itself.
The EU is crumbling, and it rushed to the sinking ship, some idiocy.

[Captain Vrungel]

Yanukovych now has no time for the CU and the EU. Yanukovych thinks about the SS. There is a big risk that you will have to jump on the stumps in Mezhyhirya not with the internal security, but with the external one. The coalition with the ruling party was driven underground to act. Lutsenko was released. But there is a big risk that the Jesuit plan for the collapse of Batkivshchyna through squabbling and dual power (Yatsenyuk's rating among the population is falling, Lutsenko's rating will grow) may not work, but rather increase the number of Batkivshchyna's supporters. Yatsenyuk rabbit is cunning, clever, but cowardly, he understands that confrontation with Lutsenko will destroy him as a politician, and "warm support" gives a chance to the cherished dream of the presidency. 2015 is not far off.
So, dear citizens of Russia, I’d like to understand inside and decide on a base. In the east, or in the west, maybe in the Cayman Islands.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: Captain Vrungel

Lutsenko released.

Pardoned without a pardon, normal move Let Timokha still let him out for the west.

[Captain Vrungel]

Uv. Alexander! Who will deal with the state, where the opposition remains in parliament, and the ruling party and the coalition go underground and in a safe house hold a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada in secret from other deputies and tough face control in order to prevent deputies who are not part of the coalition. Nonsense. 184 deputies present, received 244 status during voting and adopted a number of laws, considering by their "concepts" that they made the adopted laws "in law."
Puppeteer Lyovochkin through the regionals (herald Efremov) throws touchstones, which will pass in favor of the usurped power, in order to detain it for a long time. Starting from the referendum (according to the Kivalov-Kidalovo system "fuck you"), early elections by the majority vote (according to the same system "fuck you". Two chamber councils. The upper house is all our own, appointees. Presidential elections from one circle.
But, the tragedy is that there is no Bohdan Khmelnitsky to withdraw Ukraine from this mess. Some Mazepa, Yushchenko, Shukhevych, Yatsenyuk, bandyuki.

[Egoza]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Pardoned without a pardon, normal move

Well, Coke asked for a pardon with the EU! The following decision on Julia was a little delayed! And this-Lutsenko will now be active at rallies!

[anton107798]

pardoned by petition of the Ombudsman ... carefully read the news, or you do not show the whole truth? it's a pity

[Egoza]

Quote: Captain Vrungel

inside would sort it out and determine the base of the deru.

Especially in light of the fact that at an opposition rally yesterday, members of Freedom were already openly asking when they would finally distribute machine guns!

[Captain Vrungel]

The Americans created al-Qaeda and Bin Laden against the USSR in Afghanistan. But they jumped out of control and the Yankees got a good gamble.
The regionals created the "Svoboda" project with Tyagnibok in order to slip into power against the background of nationalism and the division of Ukraine into east-west. We slipped through. But they repeated the mistake of the Americans. "Svoboda" and Tyagnibok got out of control and no longer smells like nationalism, but outright fascism with calls for machine guns. Or is it a subtle game of the regionals. On the open aggression and Nazi calls of the Svoboda people, to use the discontent of the masses for their own purposes for the usurpation of power, the introduction of dictatorship and "eternal rule" of the family. It is this unrealistically outrageous provocative aggressiveness of the Svobodists that alarms. Something is wrong, somewhere the pig is buried. We must understand the main thing. All these attempts and demonstration of mass character, ostentatious, paid for. The people of Ukraine are simply watching the bickering at the power trough, realizing that the colors of their banners are different, but their goals are the same. How can you believe those who were once believed and who were so cynically abandoned. They are all here. Only the flags were changed. We wait. There are few real violent ones, so there are no leaders.

[igor12]

It’s strange how Ukraine looks at us, a handful of officials separated the country from Russia without taking into account the opinion of the people, now they shout to us that we owe them something. As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. Is it easier to unite with Russia even by joining the Euro-Atlantic alliance, of course it is clear that there can be no talk of a merger of the two states. But no, we are not brothers.

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: igor12

As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. So is it easier to unite with Russia even if you join the Euro-Atlantic alliance

No, it’s not easier, if you enter the vehicle, the holes on the torn pants will lose their independence.
By the way, what is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? maybe you mean Eurasian.

[Egoza]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

No, it’s not easier, if you enter the vehicle, the holes on the torn pants will lose their independence.

Well, not exactly holes! For example, the son of Yanukovych has already “scraped together” 4 million according to the official declaration of property in 198 years! And by joining the TS you will really lose the opportunity to "square" tyrit among the people!

[mamba]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

What is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? maybe you mean Eurasian.

Apparently, Igor 12 had in mind a promising new association based on the North Atlantic and Eurasian Unions. But, we still need to live up to this, and time is working against Ukraine.

[Belogor]

Indeed, in the article the red line shows only insult. And the arguments are either far-fetched or rigged.

[cerko]

the author initially posits Russia and Ukraine as two different representatives, different civilizations, ways of thinking, minutiales, and yet this is one divided people, legally i.e. conditionally.

[Dwarfik]

Kind! I have nothing against Ukraine, but they so eagerly and persistently want to be independent, that you are simply amazed! Guys, Ukrainians, do you seriously think that you are not dependent on Russia, that you can without commodity circulation with it? Unfortunately, many post-Soviet countries consider themselves independent of the Russian Federation, it is extremely dependent on it !!! Why resist?

[cerko]

We live in the modern world, but the laws of history are not unstable, and if you look through the prism of centuries, there is no person who condemns the unification of the Russian principalities, and who said that it was voluntary

[Dwarfik]

Quote: igor12

It’s strange how Ukraine looks at us, a handful of officials separated the country from Russia without taking into account the opinion of the people, now they shout to us that we owe them something. As one hero of Gaidai said, you’re a starving man, you don’t have anything. Is it easier to unite with Russia even by joining the Euro-Atlantic alliance, of course it is clear that there can be no talk of a merger of the two states. But no, we are not brothers.

Man, what is the Euro-Atlantic alliance? I know the North Atlantic, mb. I didn’t understand something? decrypt pliz, for self-education I want.

[Gemar]

Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of SE "Antonov")

This is the most dangerous thought in the article. The authors do not criticize the refusal of the Russian Federation from the AN-70, but look for a reason for selling documentation for the cordon.
By the way, how is it not a serial Y-20 is better than the IL-476 ??? Do not care what to write, just to prick more painfully "occupier"? And what kind of fashion went to compare turboprop and jet aircraft ??? AN-70 and IL-476 should occupy different niches. Ideally, you need both aircraft complementing each other, for harmony, so to speak.

State Enterprise "Antonov" names at least three states that are ready to acquire

And among them, of course, China.
It was the Ukrainians who received money (albeit not so much as they wanted) from the Russian Federation for the AN-70 and did not even say thanks ... Now the Chinese are next in line. Only the latter will not allow themselves to be cheated, in five years, they will raise an analogue of their "own design" into the sky.

[fellow misha]

Yes, they did. IL-76s were assembled in Tashkent, Ruslans were assembled in Ukraine, RAFs - the Balts were riveted, and what was the bottom line? As soon as the "vector" of direction changes again, to remain like that old woman from the tale of the great Alexander Sergeevich? Once for all these Tashkent, Kiev, etc. aircraft manufacturers, factories were built by Russia, we will build for ourselves. So far, it is possible that the An 70 is better than the 476, but the latter is completely Russian and does not depend on any "vectors", and that’s the whole difference, and it will take a little more time for us to have the most-most military transport aircraft.

[Ragnarek]

but what does "punish"? we have our own aircraft with similar characteristics, it is natural that we will support our manufacturer. EPT, more than 20 years have passed since the declaration of Ukraine's independence, and still Russia owes something. Live your state as you wish!

[fellow misha]

I put "minus" by accident, plus of course

[NIKOLAI T]

There are a lot of buccaffs, but it’s clear from the first that the verbose, fabulous author craps on Russia.

[engineer74]

"An-70 takes on board 19 pieces of equipment, and the Il-476 - only 9."
Is it rubber?
An-70, IL-76 (476), C-17 are all aircraft of different classes, the author compared warm to soft. Competence is in doubt ...

[Wedmak]

Yeah. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?

[avt]

Well, you could have guessed it yourself Naturally "Oplot"

[Oleg]

Quote: Wedmak

Yeah. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?

Just read it carefully .... from, say, 30 vehicles will enter 19 in An, and Il-9 because of the size of the cargo compartment ...

[Nevsky]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Quote: Captain Vrungel

Lutsenko released.

Pardoned without a pardon, normal move Let Timokha still let him out for the west.

Today I wrote a long article about the actions of Yanukovych and his fate in connection with the release of Lutsenko, but the admin did not let her go to the Military Review website

[Mikhail3]

Thank you, but it’s a painful question ... highly specialized. Nam (I'm not an admin at all , just a visitor) and in such articles it is dreary and tiring to read about which of the clowns gathered where and with whom "blocked". All this democracy is a stupid theater that doesn't affect anything. It is pointless to follow the permutations in it. Funny for someone, but completely useless ...

[nickname 1 and 2]

Quote: Dwarfik

Ukrainians, you seriously think that you are not dependent on Russia,

The guys have no time to enter politics at a serious level.

They try to solve issues at the level - "checkmate in 3 moves"!

[wulf66]

Offended ... Politicians in Ukraine cause a sense of disgust. The people of Ukraine have sympathy, but each nation deserves its own government.

[as3wresdf]

The base of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of all citizens of the Russian Federation on this site twitlink.ws/baza and the main thing was done as if to search for lost relatives, but here is all the information about each of us: correspondence with friends, addresses, phones, place of work, and the worst thing is even mine nudity photo (though I do not know from where ...). In general, I was very scared - but there is such a function as "hide data" of course I used it and I advise everyone not to hesitate, you never know

[vostok1982]

And what did the author want? WHAT then would the Ukrainian "partners" fuse the results of joint work (and almost 100% of unilateral funding from the Russian Federation) to some Chinese people for beads? Who needs it. If our traitorous executives want to develop high-tech industries, and not just sell slaves and prostitutes, then they must join the CU without delay. Completely and completely and unconditionally. This is the only chance for Ukraine not to become an African republic in a generation.

[Averias]

Again, the West plays into the hands, and I would not be surprised that they had a hand. It is enough to see how things are going with the "aviation industry". Although what we are talking about, the fact that Lutsenko was released says a lot. And if you look at what tricks they throw at us, how many tried to blacken our atomic reactors - it didn't work out. How many shouted that our space industry is bursting at the seams - and on the rover, our main device. And Western specialists unanimously say that it has no analogues. Ion engines (for correcting satellites) were invented by ours. In the military industry, we also wipe our nose in many ways, it is not for nothing that we came out on top. Yes, a lot of things. And aviation is such a tasty morsel, such money. They tell us whether they bought a Boeing or some other plane. But in fact, they did not buy, but rented the engines, with the maintenance and spare parts. And this is all the money and what kind. Why sell a plane is not profitable. But according to this scheme, the profit is guaranteed. And there are levers of influence. And it's a shame for Ukraine, some kind of phantasmagoria, with signs of paranoia.

[Mhpv]

Panove Valentine Bardak oh Get out Badrak!
Alas, you are not Putin and therefore not the president, and therefore it is not for you to tell him which decisions to make.
Recently, Ukraine is more and more reminiscent of Antoshka (prepare a spoon for dinner), and adequate citizens of Ukraine will forgive me. Do you want pills for greed and more or nothing more and pay nothing for all this? Ask Europe to help promote this project and see what will be your profit.
Our country should not depend on the windy bride who does not know who to sell her aging virginity more expensively.

[Alekseev]

And what about Russia and the protracted (failed) An-70 project?
Make a finished product - a transport plane and use it yourself, as well as sell wherever you want.
And if Pan Badrak you have a mess more than in Russia, or dumb pennies, then play in this project according to Russian rules.
Who pays, he orders the music.
And not to pay pennies and at the same time the right to download is not productive. As one great Ukrainian wrote, "we have seen such ballers and scoundrels."

[afpaz]

The mess is deceiving, the Superjet turned out to be an order of magnitude better than the foreign An-148/158. Despite the gigantic "anti-PR" from the Ukrainians, the corrupt "magazines ..." and, unfortunately, the workers almost ruined by the owners of the design bureau, this domestic aircraft was made modern, at the world level, it sells well. The "childhood diseases" obligatory for the new technology are less than those of Soviet aircraft. It was possible to preserve the design and production competence in the Russian Federation, despite the insufficient budgetary financing of the GSS project. And I really wanted to work closely with Ukraine in the future, when it becomes economically "independent", but for now Russia is financing projects of the country, all the rulers of which stand back to us.

[Vovka levka]

War is nonsense, the main thing is maneuvers.

[Algor73]

I am always for cooperation with Russia. But it's a pity that such a powerful airline is becoming the intrigue of political games. And the developments on aircraft are unique there. It's a shame that in order to survive Antonov will simply merge technical documentation to another country, such as China, by releasing 2-3 series aircraft (such as according to the Zubr project). The author is right only that both countries will lose.

[Svatdevostator]

We need to develop our own military transport aviation! Ilyushinsky Design Bureau is a good option. We need the army to develop and supply our armaments. And not someone else !! Tomorrow the west will tell Ukraine not to supply any aircraft or spare parts for them and what then we will do, fly on junk ?

[avt]

Quote: Wedmak

gu. The author would also indicate which technique. 19 units ... For half an hour now I’m thinking about how they fit there. Or is it about motorcycles without a stroller?

Well, no words! So hard to guess ?! The answer is simple and straightforward. Naturally "Oplot"! Ayayay! Shame on my friend.

[Wedmak]

Yeah, and if you ram, then a dozen armored personnel carriers will enter. And as in the joke:
-And now, dear passengers, we will try to take off with all this!

[tarks]

The author contradicts himself, especially when he threatens ideology. Not his horse, in short.

In any case, Russia has something to lose in the face of the Ukrainian aviation industry.

Of course have. Who can argue. But after all, Ukraine "constitutionally aspires to the EU" and, consequently, to kind.
But Russia is only a "partner" - here I totally agree with Rogozin - military equipment, especially science-intensive, should be of its own production to the maximum. so shta ... or the EU or a military aircraft structure from Antonov.
Threat.
And then Livanov, by the way? Livanov, if that ... doesn’t do very well.

[DAOSS]

Yes, it didn’t work out well! The plane is also a pity to Russia, Antonova herself put in the position that they now have one way to sell the AN-70 to the West.
Here, many people write nothing personal, only business, SO SO WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE ON THE NEW AN-70, AND YOU ARE ON OLD ILs (which, by the way, are in the ten most unreliable aircraft in the world by the number of accidents)
BECAUSE DO NOT BE OFFEND THAT YOU WILL TELL ANYTHING PERSONAL, THIS IS ONLY BUSINESS !!!

[Mhpv]

The West will ride on Boeing and Airbuses, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt)

[Oleg]

Quote: mhpv

The West will ride on Boeing and Airbus, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt) ss

With this approach to aviation, we will soon all transfer to A and B, but Russia is already on them, although Ukraine too ...

[Mhpv]

In the USSR, once there were only three B-29s, and then bam and Tu-4.
So many of us see the future in the future

[Wedmak]

The plane is also a pity to Russia, Antonova herself put in the position that they now have one way to sell the AN-70 to the West.

Yeah, Russia, as always, is to blame. They did not give money for revision and launch in a series, just something.

SO SO WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE ON THE NEW AN-70

The West will ride on its transporter, the design of which will be lowered .. on the AN-70. And you will shrug your shoulders bewildered - how so ...

YOU ARE ON OLD ILs (which, incidentally, are among the ten most unreliable aircraft in the world by the number of accidents)

Oh really? On the old ones? But nothing that 476 will go into the series? New cars will be built.
And the fact that he is not reliable ... Well, well, do you believe yourself? ILs have always been extremely reliable and unpretentious in maintenance. Starting with IL-2, ending with IL-96.

BECAUSE DO NOT BE OFFEND THAT YOU WILL TELL ANYTHING PERSONAL, THIS IS ONLY BUSINESS !!!

Russia has already said so to Ukraine. So do not be offended.

[avt]

Well, when there is nothing to say, but I really want to ... The West will NEVER ride the An-70. There you have already been buried and launched into the A-400 series, but worse than ours.

Quote: mhpv

The West will ride on Boeing and Airbuses, Russia on Tu and Ilah, and you respected bare back on asphalt (if there is still asphalt)

It is harsh, but true, especially in the light of the elimination of illiteracy in moving westward, in particular the An-7x of the recessed A-400 m. But let it fly in thoughts, it’s a diagnosis, there’s no reason to argue.

[katran666]

DOCHTORAAAAAA !!!!!!

[Ragnarek]

do you believe that?

[tarks]

It didn’t work out well in the 90s. And this is already so, stupidly a consequence of.

[ramzes1776]

Quote: DAOSS

WHEN THE WEST WILL RIDE THE NEW AN-70

Who needs FIG in the west then, is there their own aircraft industry ???

[elmi]

Once again, I regret that there is no single state as in the USSR, so I would not have to divide yours into mine.

[Evgeniy46]

I'm tired of regularly reading about the whining on An-70 / 140. An-148 at least more or less successful turned out. An-70 have been made for 25 years already and will not be completed at all. During this period, we have already launched the production of IL-76MD-90A. An-140 in the Air Force a few pieces, in the civilian, he suffered several wrecks. And we have IL-114, and in the future, IL-214 (MTA).
In order for Ukraine to receive large orders from Russia, it needs to stop trying to sit on two chairs. Otherwise, it simply does not make sense to give money to the Ukrainian aviation industry - there will still be no sense. At least, their leadership does not consider us Slav brothers. In general, either Ukraine is with us and then receives orders, or with Europe, and then we launch our projects in a series

[dmitreach]

And the plan was simple: to create a vassal, completely controlled territory.

I mastered it up to this point. Further boring. On Inosmi such "creativity" flows over the edge and there are trolls in spring. Sometimes it is not clear who has the stronger aggravation, the authors of the articles or some commentators with Inosmi.

According to sabzh: what do these Svidomo protoukry want? I'm talking about inadequate. First of all, they hurt themselves. (such in a special shirt and a room with soft walls. And haloperidol in medals, but more so as not to be crippled.) Throw yourself kakashki and call it noble no dependence on Russia? Receive - sign. Themselves, so themselves. And while we with the Hindus still BraMosov with PAKFA navoi or bake ships. And this is until Lobov rots against the wall and An70 does not fly, so watch the fighting in the Rada.

At the Baltic shipyard "Yantar", which is part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, the state tests of the frigate "Trikand", built on the project 11356. began, this was reported in the press release of USC.

http://flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=142503
http://vpk.name/news/87595_v_baltiiske_nachalis_gosispyitaniya_indiiskogo_fregat
a.html

Has anyone tried to calculate how many plants Russia (CCCP) built and transferred to India?

[tarks]

In the 90s, the country was split, divided, now here we observe fans of different thieves.
However, Putin and part of the Roselita, as it were, look a little like thieves, but ukroelita ... is painful, in short.

[dmitreach]

Yes, all of them ... a thief on a thief drives a thief. Only there are thieves mentally stuck in the 90s, and there are thieves surrendering objects.
Someone at the Olympics saws, and someone builds. Also in Vladik, the same in Kazan ... In St. Petersburg, the ring road was built. "Star-DSME" and "Vostok-Raffles" in Primorye ... There are plenty of examples.
The same Taburetkin is a thief. But the money still goes to the army (and not that "in spite of"), and the prosecutor's office portrays the IDB.
And in our Parliament, the "priests" don't wave a censer over their heads, it's a new century ... Unlike the Rada.
Like a gritsa: feel the difference.

[Mhpv]

Something over the past few days of some Ukrainian authors has struck something about masochism (either the belated spring has affected, or Europe’s envy for same-sex marriage). They will leave an article about how Russia offends Ukraine and enjoys how it is whipped in soft places.
Not tired of the shannov!

[Vtel]

In Ukraine, they want to sit on two chairs at once. Suppose that by IL's standards, our IL is worse than theirs - but it will not fly OUR to the west to enemies, but Anushka certainly feels sorry, but what color will it be (in a striped or something) when Bendera’s Ukraine is drawn into NATO?

[ImPerts]

Russia bought the license for An-140, as far as I know. And it is right. You must do the same with other projects.

[Mhpv]

And do not forget to lure designers

[ImPerts]

The Chinese do not lure designers. They buy samples and try to copy. And it’s better to buy technology, but it’s more difficult. And here...
For me, a technologist is better than a constructor. There are a lot of design developments, technologies are needed. And the observance of the old.

[Mhpv]

The designer creates the technologist who embodies, so we take both

[wax]

Ukraine as a part of the USSR was a power with a powerful industry, developed agriculture, a robust Academy of Sciences, an excellent engineering corps, participated in the steering of the USSR, had a membership in the UN. And what happened to Ukraine after a quarter century (!) Of independence. And the bottom is still ahead. In general, I already got this whine of insolvent politicians and interpreters who advertise what is no longer there.

[VadimSt]

Another meow - Look for your roots!

The Russian language is the state language, the dominance of the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the involvement of Ukraine in economic and military-political organizations

Maybe in order to see the problem, you need to turn the binoculars on the other side? And then it turns out that this is not the Kremlin’s intrigues, but historical truth.
Russians in Ukraine are not guests, they have lived on these lands for hundreds of years, and these lands have never belonged to Ukraine - all this happened within the Russian Empire, and not on the lands of Austria-Hungary, or the Polish-Lithuanian formation. We are historically Orthodox and served by the Moscow Patriarchate, and not schismatics, and even less so are Greek Catholics.
Maybe Ukraine, as a territorial-national entity, for hundreds of years historically, economically, politically and the like, has been connected and oriented to the West? Then the question arises - Was there Ukraine.
Yes, Kievan Rus is the founder of the Russian state, but not of Ukraine. With the same success, you can offer the United States to consider the Inca state as its ancestor.

All "new Ukrainian" historians, analysts, and the current political elite, would like to remind Krylov's fable - "And you, friends, no matter how you sit down as musicians, are not good enough!"

[ImPerts]

As they say, Byzantium ceased to exist when they began to say that they were Armenians, Greeks, others ... Instead of the Romans, they became nationalists, national units. Empire and collapsed.
My personal opinion is that nations big and small can only exist within the empire. Moreover, small nations can remain themselves only under the condition of being in the empire. In the USSR, in addition to national republics, there was a concept - Soviet. Like an American in the USA right now. Most interesting, we were and are for the West - Russians. Thus, the ideological bomb failed, it worked. Let's shape the future differently. Russians are so Russians. The main thing, the main observance of the main empire rule: 1) are all equal. 2) in the areas of compact residence there are special rules of conduct that do not contradict the constitution of the Russian Federation.
I came to visit relatives in Central Asia, my habits, for example, walking naked to the waist in the yard, were unnecessary. Local Russian speakers warned me about this. I agree with that. But those who come to central Russia should also understand that the burqa and the habit of speaking loudly is wrong. That no one is going to arrange a ghetto for them. And if they want, it will be fun for them. There is such a concept of "zero tolerance", in the American hinterland it works at times (remember "Rambo-1". Either like everyone else, or home

[Makarov]

This is not the place where such articles should be posted, after the first paragraph, only those who are at least somehow connected with aviation read, and the article, by the way, is entertaining ... Interestingly, there will be "Antonov" in NATO ... I hardly think .... And another interesting thing ... just as I don’t read comments on this site, I feel with all my heart that I am Russian living in Ukraine, but as far as I read I want to dump to Europe, so that there is no finger on me on a national basis didn’t poke .... thu (unprintable word) .....

[Cristall]

repeat my thoughts. Hold on!

[Technocrat]

Reading some Internet "writers" who are asleep and see themselves at least as new "Brzezinski" in geopolitics, one is simply amazed. What do you think we will win politically or economically from the confrontation with Ukraine. Well, we and Ukraine will reach the point of no return, we will start another campaign like 08.08.08 (God forbid !!!), we will have another enemy in our rear, the question is who will benefit from this. By pushing the Ukrainian people away from Russia (and on this site, basically, this is all they are doing), we ourselves are making a gross mistake, the consequences of which we ourselves may soon experience.

[Cristall]

so far the first adequate answer among many.

[sokoloff4791]

ARTICLE LIKE ADVERTISING RIGHTS AND SO COMPETITORS HAVE TO BE DESTROYED OR ABSORBED! PUTIN DOES EVERYTHING CORRECTLY! ALMOST ME THOUGHT COMES THOUGHT IT THROUGH YANUKOVICH EUROPE BREEDS NOT WITHOUT YANUKOVICH ARRIVING WITHOUT ANY EVISIBLE REASONS

[afpaz]

There is no confrontation on the part of Russia with Ukraine. We were simply "lowered into the market," and there our own laws. Without regular Russian cash injections (An-148-Voronezh, IFC, purchase for Russian state structures, An-140-Ulyanovsk. An-70 Ministry of Defense, purchase of pipes, metal, etc. to the detriment of its own industry), Ukraine would badly. And the Antonov design bureau would probably have gone bent at all. But you can't "turn the other cheek" all the time, and even for your own money. A big country, let them decide for themselves. I would like to live amicably, there are relatives and classmates, but somehow according to the rules common to both countries. Probably, "in order to unite, one must dissociate."

[Mhpv]

Quote: sokoloff4791

ABSORB! PUTIN DOES EVERYTHING CORRECTLY! ALMOST ME THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT THOUGHT IT THROUGH YANUKOVICH WILL BREED EUROPE

It seems to me that Putin is spreading Europe through Cyprus with the help of Germany, and at the same time reminded the oligarchs where they need to bury the "five gold", and not look for a field of fools.

[lazy]

but the plane is still a pity, and it was probably possible to do something with the an-12, and this is how it rivets its clones of the an-12, Mongolia buys the s-130 (there is no alternative), the Europeans will also seize the niche with their a-400 without any alternative. sad. "the gentlemen are fighting among the slaves, their forelocks are cracking"

[Aktino]

Well, it’s no longer needed, and there’s no point in raising a stink here, the Air Force Commander-in-Chief recently announced plans for a VTA where a small one up to 6 tons will be either an An-140T or a resuscitation of the Il-112 project, a medium one up to 20 tons will be an Il-214 (together with the Indians MTS) , heavy up to 60 tons will be the Il-76MD-90A, and the super-heavy An-124-100M.

[Oleg]

Quote: Aktino

Well, it’s no longer needed, and there’s no point in raising a stink here, the Air Force Commander-in-Chief recently announced plans for a VTA where a small one up to 6 tons will be either an An-140T or a resuscitation of the Il-112 project, a medium one up to 20 tons will be an Il-214 (together with the Indians MTS) , heavy up to 60 tons will be the Il-76MD-90A, and the super-heavy An-124-100M.

Come on! Il-112,214 is on paper, in the Il476 you can’t fit anything other than an infantry fighting vehicle and a couple of UAZs, but the Chinese simply enlarged the fusel on the Y-20, they are traitors.... and the fact that the cabin was modified on the Il, so you at least Make it crystal - it’s still old.... We really need a new transporter!

[evil hamster]

Here you go http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20130205/V11Zw7ju.jpg

[evil hamster]

Yes, such a good bonnet.
Let's leave out a lot of the political...

It is no secret to anyone for a long time: only two design bureaus are viable and retained the entire chain of aircraft development and production: Antonov and Sukhoi.

Oh how! The only problem is that this is known only to a certain part of the nationally concerned public in Ukraine, and to no one else.

But the Sukhoi Design Bureau can seriously deal only with military vehicles (those who watched the project to create the Sukhoi Superjet-100 passenger aircraft will inevitably admit this)

Oga oga, but for some reason more Surjs were sold than An-148, well, of course, this is all the machinations of the Kremlin.

But by cutting down its orders and prospects, Russia will forever lose the opportunity to remain among the manufacturers of competitive military transport and regional passenger aircraft.

There is no need to worry about Russia, we ourselves are somehow worried about it, worry about your state and industry.

Russian demarches have already “stolen” the An-70 for seven years

Is this according to Freud? That is, “Russia’s demarches” prevented them from finishing testing and stratifying the aircraft themselves?

The leadership of the Russian military department actually resolved another mutually beneficial issue - the acquisition of the second copy of the world's largest aircraft - the An-225 Mriya.

It’s interesting that authors from the west of Ukraine are always like this: dreams come first over reality? We really want it and that’s why they’ll buy it, should we just wait? Stop and think why the RF Ministry of Defense needs to buy (or rather, complete the construction of a fuselage that has been stored for 20 years)1 the only “mriya” for the modernization and repair of combatant Ruslanov for crazy money - this is not our method.

[evil hamster]

But this is just a start, but now the fat will come...

But no matter how beautiful the Il-76 is, it made its first production flight back in May 1973. That is, 40 years ago! And we must understand that strengthening the wing, increasing the flight range by a thousand kilometers and modernizing the control automation cannot make it a new machine.

Apparently over the past 40 years, physics in general and aerodynamics in particular have undergone such coordinate changes....

Evil tongues in the Russian Federation insist that the aviation industry (represented by the United Aircraft Corporation) is ready to cooperate with Ukraine, but in Russia itself, irreversible changes began after the appointment in December 2011 of Dmitry Rogozin as Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation and head of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation.

Yeah, that means who is appointed as our main bastard

Meanwhile, representatives of the new lobby intend to cancel the third Antonov project - for the supply of a batch of An-140 to the Russian Ministry of Defense - by re-promoting the Il-112 aircraft (of course, with the re-allocation of funds, since the previously allocated ones have irrevocably sunk into oblivion). And it’s okay that the An-140 is already flying (four aircraft have been delivered to the Russian Defense Ministry), and the Il-112 is still on paper.

And this dear author says that the An 140 is essentially a passenger plane without a ramp and with a narrow fuselage. But the transport option is only on paper, and will remain there, unless, of course, Russia gives money for development, it’s symptomatic, isn’t it.

The list also included the well-known “MTA”, an aircraft project that has been tricked by Indian partners for a good decade.

Why was the author being modest and didn’t tell us about the An-178 mega-transport aircraft - why did he turn the An-158 into a transport aircraft? Maybe because it's as paper-based as the MTA isn't?

[evil hamster]

To avoid illusions

But if anyone really thinks that an equal sign can be put between the An-70 and the Il-476, he should at least familiarize himself with the statistics.

From it, the very pulp, you feel what a syllable, what pathos, it should become clear to every lad that the Ukrainian gloomy genius is not your pathetic crafts. By the way, it’s really not worth putting an equal sign between aircraft with 135 and 210 tons of take-off weight

The An-70 set six world payload records, among other things, lifting 55 tons of cargo to a height of 7355 m during testing

The audience gasped in amazement, there was thunderous applause turning into applause Let's calculate: Max take-off 135 tons, cargo 55 tons, empty weight 73 tons - and we still have 7 tons left for fuel, well, take off cleanly, jump and get to the airfield before everyone gets out, wow - an epic achievement

If we talk about the nomenclature of weapons, the An-70 takes on board 19 units of equipment, and the IL-476 - only 9.

Without comment, I think any forum member can count more at a glance.

The fact is that the cross-section of the cargo compartment of the Il-476 is significantly smaller than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An-70, S-17, A-400M and even the Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of the State Enterprise "Antonov"). In reality, it looks like this: the Buk air defense system, the T-90 tank, the MSTA-S self-propelled artillery mount, the Tunguska anti-aircraft missile and gun system and almost all modern An-70 radars are carried on board, but the Il-476 is not .

Why the hell?
[media=http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20130205/V11Zw7ju.jpg] and by the way, it also fits in size, beech and Tunguska practically don’t fit in width, that’s true. Only the t 90A with a weight of 46,5 is a bit heavy for the AN 70, maybe he can handle a ton and a half with it, but who needs all this?

In addition, the An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: to disperse it requires 607 m along the unpaved strip and 310 m along the equipped one.

Empty? quite possible.

But for the Il-476, the required take-off length is 2100 m. Moreover, aircraft manufacturers claim that on unpaved runways the Il-476 will only take off and land empty - therefore, it will not carry out the transfer of weapons and personnel.

Tales of the Vienna Woods! Total Il76-ps90 - wing area 300 m^2, maximum takeoff 210 tons, wing load 700 kg/m^2 An-70 - area 204 m^2, maximum takeoff 135 tons, wing load 662 kg/m^2 Let's look at the chassis:
[media=http://www.uldelo.ru/Files/News/3126/1891.jpg]
[media=http://lol54.ru/uploads/posts/2008-04/thumbs/1207121477_an-70-2.jpg]
and we think why are they openly lying to us?

[evil hamster]

To avoid illusions

But if anyone really thinks that an equal sign can be put between the An-70 and the Il-476, he should at least familiarize himself with the statistics.

From it, the very pulp, you feel what a syllable, what pathos, it should become clear to every lad that the Ukrainian gloomy genius is not your pathetic crafts. By the way, it’s really not worth putting an equal sign between aircraft with 135 and 210 tons of take-off weight

The An-70 set six world payload records, among other things, lifting 55 tons of cargo to a height of 7355 m during testing

The audience gasped in amazement, there was thunderous applause turning into applause Let's calculate: Max take-off 135 tons, cargo 55 tons, empty weight 73 tons - and we still have 7 tons left for fuel, well, take off cleanly, jump and get to the airfield before everyone gets out, wow - an epic achievement

If we talk about the nomenclature of weapons, the An-70 takes on board 19 units of equipment, and the IL-476 - only 9.

Without comment, I think any forum member can count more at a glance.

The fact is that the cross-section of the cargo compartment of the Il-476 is significantly smaller than that of all modern military transport aircraft: An-70, S-17, A-400M and even the Chinese Y-20 (created, by the way, not without the help of the State Enterprise "Antonov"). In reality, it looks like this: the Buk air defense system, the T-90 tank, the MSTA-S self-propelled artillery mount, the Tunguska anti-aircraft missile and gun system and almost all modern An-70 radars are carried on board, but the Il-476 is not .

Why the hell?
http://s2.ipicture.ru/uploads/20130205/V11Zw7ju.jpg и мста кстате тоже влазит по габаритам, бук с тунгуской практически не влезают по ширине это правда. Только т 90А при весе 46,5 - это для ан 70 тяжеловато, может полторашечку он с ним и осилит, только вот кому это все надо?

In addition, the An-70 can take off from unequipped runways: to disperse it requires 607 m along the unpaved strip and 310 m along the equipped one.

Empty? quite possible.

But for the Il-476, the required take-off length is 2100 m. Moreover, aircraft manufacturers claim that on unpaved runways the Il-476 will only take off and land empty - therefore, it will not carry out the transfer of weapons and personnel.

Tales of the Vienna Woods! Total Il76-ps90 - wing area 300 m^2, maximum takeoff 210 tons, wing load 700 kg/m^2 An-70 - area 204 m^2, maximum takeoff 135 tons, wing load 662 kg/m^2 Let's look at the chassis:
http://www.uldelo.ru/Files/News/3126/1891.jpg
http://lol54.ru/uploads/posts/2008-04/thumbs/1207121477_an-70-2.jpg
and we think why are they openly lying to us?

[evil hamster]

Finally, the most significant characteristic is fuel consumption. For "Ila" it is 1,7 times more. The hourly fuel consumption of the An-70 is 4400 kg/hour, while that of the Il-476 is 8100 kg/hour. In fact (according to Russian calculations), to carry out a combat mission, you can get by with a fleet of An-70s, half the size of the Il-476 fleet. This is despite the fact that the take-off weight of the operational-tactical An-70 is 125–140 tons, and the operational-strategic Il-476 is about 210 tons.

Oga, with a cargo weight of 40 tons, the An 70 has 5 hours on the mode, and the Il76PS90 has 8,7 (this is, of course, an extremely rough calculation just for a general understanding of the values), so it turns out that despite all the blah blah blah of the author, these are aircraft of different classes and comparing them is pointless, and the weight of 40 tons for the An 70 is from the field of marketing, not operation.

PS. the programmers say it works, don’t touch it, I still haven’t figured out how to insert a picture in the new design

[1c-inform-city]

Russia paid for the development and assembly of 6 aircraft, all this for a long time. Today, with grief, two have been assembled in half. It is impossible to carry out full tests on them. Moreover, Antonov constantly demands more money. By the way, Motor Sich is doing the same thing. Therefore, Klimov launched a new plant last year. And by the year 14 they promise to no longer purchase engines from the plant Motor Sich (progress) which used to belong to the Klimova Design Bureau. Last year, engines doubled in price.

[Oleg]

.Last year, engines doubled in price. and cigarettes at 2...

[porevith]

listen to you, all the troubles in Russia, it’s Ukraine’s fault, you poor, miserable people

[Concept1]

You got everything completely wrong!

[porevith]

on the contrary, we need to strengthen the economic ties between us, the closer they are connected, the less profitable it will be to break them, although you know better who is better to buy from, you buy Mistrals from NATO and nothing, well, apparently they are more friends than us

[Concept1]

Of course you are absolutely right!!!
We need to tie Russia very, very closely with our hands and feet!!! Well, why are you resisting!
For this there is a plan B. From the beginning in a non-solar Ukraine, everything reaches complete independence “complete independence of the definition - when even atoms do not depend on each other”
then Russia buys everything for pennies and integrates it into its State. corporations!!!

[porevith]

on the contrary, it is necessary to strengthen economic ties, the closer the more profitable, which means it is not profitable to break them. Then they themselves would ask to join the Customs Union, but it’s better to buy from NATO, like the Mistrals, you can see them closer.

[stranik72]

We are ignoramuses, the only thing new in big aviation created with our participation in 20 years, so what?
The Westerners applaud us for an encore.

[cth1949]

IF THE SISTERS DECIDED TO LIVE INDEPENDENTLY, THEN WHY DEPEND ON EACH OTHER IN ALL AREAS OF LIFE, ESPECIALLY IN SAFETY? HERE IT IS APPROPRIATE TO RECALL ONE WELL-KNOWN STATEMENT MADE AT THE END OF THE 19TH CENTURY: BEFORE YOU UNITE, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE.
UKRAINE IS STRIVING TO MEMBER THE EUROPEAN UNION AND NATO AND DOES NOT WANT A STRONG UNION WITH RUSSIA. WHY DO WE NEED EQUIPMENT THAT WILL BE BANNED WHEN I ENTER NATO7

[Naval]

What's the point of helping potential enemies? During the August war, they already shot down our aircraft with air defense systems created in “cooperation”.

[Selevc]

The author should be punched in the face for the above writing!!! I am a peaceful person, but if I met this Valentin Badrak, I would give him a good kiss!!!

It is no secret to anyone for a long time: only two design bureaus are viable and retained the entire chain of aircraft development and production: Antonov and Sukhoi.

Complete nonsense - my friend works at the Kharkov aircraft plant - the management itself calls their plant a SWAMP!!! Only pensioners work at the machines - young people don’t go to the factory, since young specialists’ salaries are pitiful!!! And this despite the fact that advertisements for employment at the plant are posted everywhere in the city on public transport!!! Airplanes are assembled at a snail's pace - about one per year, or maybe less!!! Salaries are delayed and paid due to the fact that the plant takes out loans from banks!!!
I think that in the design bureau the situation is almost the same!!!

The aviation industry in Ukraine is actively dying - or rather, it is being actively drowned by its own authorities - werewolves to the applause of hypocritical "friends" from Brussels!!!

[I think so]

If the Antonov Design Bureau is so well preserved, then why not lure EVERYONE from this design bureau to Russia. Pay people as much as you pay the smallest officials in Russia, provide them with their own housing in a decent city and that’s it. Everything will cost a couple of three billion bucks - a trifle compared to the “loan to Cyprus”. And no difficulties, all the money will then be returned by selling the aircraft. Apparently Russia doesn’t need all this, otherwise it wouldn’t have ruined its own design bureau. I think that everyone here, both in Ukraine and in Russia, is for one thing - to destroy the intelligence of their people. Fools are easier to rule and you can feed them less...

[stranik72]

“If Antonov’s design bureau is so well preserved, then why not lure EVERYONE from this design bureau to Russia” There is such a thing, Parkinson’s Law (has nothing to do with the disease that bears the same name) states that the larger and more financially pumped up (at the expense of the budget) especially) any enterprise becomes, the more often it hires incapable and highly paid employees. Why? Simply because the workers already working there want to avoid competition. The best way to avoid facing a dangerous enemy is to hire incompetent workers. The best way to lull their desire to take initiative is to overpay. In this way, the leading castes provide themselves with unshakable confidence in their position. According to the same law, on the contrary, everyone who is full of ideas, original solutions or the desire to improve the work of the enterprise is systematically fired or, at best, relegated to the background. Thus, the paradox of Russian modernity is that the larger an enterprise is financially, the longer it operates in the market, the more energetically it discards dynamic, low-paid personnel, replacing them with inert personnel with exorbitantly high salaries. So no one will invite anyone to the UAC; dullness and wretchedness rule there, and not only there but also in BP and other so-called high-tech companies.

.

[Olaf]

The author of the article is completely right. It’s even strange that such an article was “passed” on review, which, judging by the latest articles, turned into a review of Ukraine.

[Gecko]

In the Donetsk region, near the customs checkpoint "Amvrosievka", border guards detained a Ukrainian who was trying to smuggle 130 kg of fresh-frozen lard from the Russian Federation outside the checkpoint. A REGNUM correspondent was informed about this on April 9 by the press service of the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine.
“A resident of Makeyevka (Donetsk region) was detained between the Russian village of Shramko and the Ukrainian village of Ulyanovskoye. Information about the night intruder was passed on to Russian colleagues, who soon detained his accomplice on Russian territory,” the State Border Service reported. The report also notes that the product was packaged in plastic bags.

[gladiatorakz]

Quote: gecko

who tried to smuggle 130 kg of fresh-frozen lard from the Russian Federation outside the checkpoint.

In a bag?