The Oddities of War

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The Oddities of War

Uncle Kostya's letter #2. It says that they were brought to Kharkov, but where next, of course, he didn't know

Caravans of birds fly above me
Flying past in the sky.
They fly above me as if they want to take me
Towards my native land, to my beloved region.




Song from the film "Missing in Action". Words by A. Fatyanov, music by G. Zhukovsky


He didn’t live to see the victory… The publication of materials about my stepfather Petr Shpakovsky raised many questions among the reading audience of "Military Review", and many of them in their comments point out the inaccuracies and oddities in them. The first are quite understandable, since they are a retelling of a story, even with some statute of limitations. But the second... Here everything is more complicated. The fact is that, in my opinion, in any such complex and dangerous matter as war, oddities have always been and will be. And today I would like to tell you about one such oddity here. It is confirmed by a document - a letter from the front, but it sounds truly amazing.

As I have written here many times, my family lived in the city of Penza on Proletarskaya Street since 1882. The house was old, but solid, and my grandfather's half had only two rooms, so he slept on a bed in the hallway by the door. In the hall by the window there was a chest of drawers with various knick-knacks, an old Moser clock, and above it hung three large photo portraits of my grandfather Konstantin Petrovich Taratynov in his youth and his two sons, Kostya and Shura.

When I once asked who they were, I was told that they were your uncles, but they died in the war. I didn’t ask about them again until I watched the feature film “Missing in Action,” filmed in 1956 at the Kyiv Film Studio. It was released in 1957, but I watched it, of course, much later. The film about a Soviet soldier who accomplished a feat but remained nameless made a very strong impression on me, and when I returned home, I began to retell its plot. It was shown in movie theaters and on TV more than once. But at home, they didn’t like it, so I had to watch it either at the movie theater or at my neighbors’. Well, one day I asked about it…

And then my mother took out an old, worn briefcase with documents from the closet, took out a folder with yellowed letters and began to show them to me and tell me about them.

That's how I found out that my uncle Konstantin Petrovich Taratynov went to war and disappeared without a trace there in exactly the same way. And no matter how much my grandparents searched for him, they never found him, neither immediately after the war, nor many years later.


Konstantin Taratynov is my uncle

Well, what did I learn about him then? That he finished seven years of school and went to work on the railroad, since my grandfather had started his career there, and my great-grandfather was a master of locomotive repair shops and a very respected man. He passed the exam and began working in a mail and baggage car at the Penza-1 station. He liked the job because it gave him the opportunity to travel around the country. So he visited beyond the Ural Mountains and told his younger brother and sister a lot about his impressions.

According to his mother, he was a very inquisitive young man, he read many different magazines, but he was especially interested in everything related to weapons. So this interest is probably hereditary for me. I decided to learn to play the guitar, bought it, a self-study guide and learned to play. But his real passion was aviation. This is not surprising, because aviation in the USSR was rapidly developing at that time, it was the pilots who became the first Heroes of the Soviet Union, and the sky at that time attracted many, many. Boys wanted to be like Chkalov. Well, "Uncle Kostya" also signed up for the Penza flying club, began to fly gliders and training aircraft.

And then he was drafted into the army, on June 20, 1941, exactly two days before the war began. He was exactly 18 years old then. He wanted to join the air force, but he failed the medical examination for vision problems because he wore glasses. His family saw off their beloved son, who left on a train with conscripts at exactly 5 a.m. But they never saw their son again…

June 22, 1941, as everyone probably knows, fell on a Sunday, that is, a day off, and also a holiday for railway workers. The entire Taratynov family went to celebrate it in the park at the F.E. Dzerzhinsky Railway Workers' Club. Music was playing, people were walking, eating ice cream and laughing. And suddenly everything went silent, and people rushed to the exit, where a large black loudspeaker hung on a pole. V.M. Molotov was speaking on the radio. And he said terrible things about how today at 3 o'clock in the morning Nazi Germany attacked the USSR. The parents were shocked, first of all, because they immediately realized that they were sending their son off to war.

And then the first letter came from him. In it, he wrote that his train was moving west, where fierce battles were already underway. Then three more letters came, the last one from Novgorod-Volynsky. And then they received a notice that Red Army soldier Taratynov K.P. was missing in action... And then in 1942, my grandmother accidentally saw a photograph from a Belarusian partisan detachment in a newspaper. One of those depicted in it looked very much like her son. She immediately wrote a letter to the author of the article, but he replied that he, of course, did not remember all the names of the partisans he had photographed there, and advised her to contact the partisan detachment directly, and even told her how to find him.

The grandparents immediately wrote "where necessary", but were told that the entire detachment had already been destroyed by that time. They tried to find their missing son for a very long time. They wrote inquiries to military registration and enlistment offices, but the answers were always the same: "He is not listed among the killed and wounded." That is how the life of a young guy at the age of 18 ended...

At one time I read all his letters very carefully - after all, these were real documents of the war and the most valuable historical source. And I learned a lot of interesting things from them. For example, I seemed to know that letters from the war years were folded in a triangle. At least, that's how it is in all the movies about the war. But Uncle Kostya's letters were in envelopes, albeit very small ones. Moreover, one envelope even had a stamp. Isn't that strange? And how can it be explained? By the inertia of peacetime, when envelopes were still in use? Well, and then, when they were gone, the postal service switched to triangles? Of course, that's a small thing. But if I had written that the letters were "squares", people would have immediately started writing to me that it was a fiction, that "triangles" were used during the war. But here are four letters that say the opposite. That is, at the very beginning of the war, this happened.

The first letter was the shortest:

"I'm traveling on the Penza-Kharkov line. I'm writing from Povorino station. They're handing out herring and bread now. The train is going very fast. It's hard to write, it's full of people."

It shows that the train carriage was overcrowded. And that the newly drafted guys, who had never even held a rifle in their hands, were being taken to the front. But it would have been more logical to send them to Samara, train them, and only then send them to war. But... that's exactly how it was then!

Letter No. 3 of June 26th reported that Kostya was in the city of Korosten in Western Ukraine. He had to write in fits and starts, since the station had been bombed by German bombers for the second time, and the city was also being bombed. 13 planes took part in the raid. Moreover, it took a very long time to transport them from Kharkov to Korosten. At first they were transported to Lvov, but the unit where they were going to be reinforced had gone into battle, and where they would be taken next was unknown. “We are waiting for redeployment,” it was written at the end of the letter.

And here is the last letter, No. 4, dated June 27. It is the most detailed, which indicates that there was an opportunity to write it. It says that their train arrived in Novgorod-Volynsky again, was bombed, and that before his eyes our anti-aircraft gunners shot down five German planes at once! That's how it was! And they also say that at the beginning of the war we had a bad DefenseMoreover, one plane fell outside the city, but the other was shot down and landed next to the station in a field. “They took out of this plane – and here begins the most interesting, even incredible part – a 16-year-old drunk pilot, a 17-year-old girl, the rest were adults, - he writes, - (navigator, radio operator and others)».


Scan of letter #4

So what is next:

"Many spies and saboteurs are being detained at the stations." "One military train was brought here, all mown down by machine gun fire. Very few were left alive, though I didn't see it myself." "I'll finish, because things are starting to fly again that are interesting to watch."

These are the “interesting things” that my uncle managed to see and describe in a letter. And here are the questions: how did these strange individuals get on a military plane of the German Air Force and what were they doing there? After all, neither a seventeen-year-old girl nor a sixteen-year-old boy could serve in the German Air Force by definition (or maybe they could and did serve?). But, nevertheless, they ended up on it, and were immediately captured!

How did Kostya know their age and that the guy was drunk, if he reports it as an irrefutable fact? The prisoners' documents were obviously checked, and everyone in the train he was traveling on started talking about it... And he doesn't give any more details, that is, for him everything was clear anyway. But this is a real find for filmmakers, and where? In my home archive! But if they showed this on the screen, no one would believe them! They would simply say: "This couldn't have happened." But it did!


A letter from a war correspondent from the newspaper and a photograph of a machine gunner with tank DT shows a guy who looks like Kostya in a cap and with a gun


One of the answers to the query…

Well, judging by the photograph in the newspaper, he didn’t even have time to change into his army uniform (when and where was he supposed to change if the same “things” later bombed his train?), and so, in his home cap, he ended up with the partisans. And most likely, in one encircled unit, named for the sake of beauty the Kotovsky partisan detachment. And that’s where he fought until 1942, until he died along with the rest of his partisans!
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    2. +10
      1 June 2025 07: 06
      A shell-shocked person may look like he is very drunk.
      1. 0
        5 June 2025 21: 24
        When they took me prisoner, they probably concussed me with a rifle butt.
  2. +8
    1 June 2025 05: 41
    How did Kostya know their age and that the guy was drunk, if he reports this as an irrefutable fact?

    That's where it's from
    There are very few survivors left, although I didn’t see it myself.”

    According to rumors ...
  3. +7
    1 June 2025 08: 34
    The first ones are quite understandable, since they are a retelling of a story, even with some statute of limitations. But the second ones... Here everything is more complicated. The thing is that, in my opinion, in any such complex and dangerous matter as war, there have always been and will be oddities.
    Mr. Shpakovsky was offended by the comments. By the way, why didn't you take your grandfather's surname - Taratynov sounds good? Oh well, your problem is that you didn't serve in the army, so the former special officer calmly hung noodles on the ears of an 18-year-old youth. If you had served, you would have known that special officers don't go on the attack, they have other duties, and you can rarely see them in the unit, and you might not see them at all. And adding for the sake of a catchphrase... so-so. For example:
    And that newly drafted guys, who have never even held a rifle in their hands, are being taken to the front.
    All young men up to the age of conscription in the USSR could disassemble, assemble and shoot an AK, and in pre-war times, Vseobuch also taught how to handle a rifle. all , conscripts and even girls, did not stare at the Mosin rifle like rams at a new gate. About "being taken to the front." In the army, even going to the latrines must be done by order, if they called up and formed a team, then it will follow to the location of its unit, regardless of whether the war has begun or not.
    And here are the questions: how did these strange individuals get on a German Air Force military plane and what were they doing there?
    Rumors and more rumors that spread at war with cosmic speed. "Nowhere do they lie as much as at war and after hunting..." This is what Konstantin Simonov writes; Different Days of the War. A Writer's Diary;
    The story I gave in my diary about the half-burnt body of a German pilot being pulled out of the cockpit of our fighter now seems unlikely to me, although reports of similar cases can be found in archival documents of that time, for example in the order of the chief of staff of the 21st Army from July 13, 1941: “The enemy is using aircraft captured from us to attack our units, bombing and strafing them from low altitude.”

    At that time I thought that the Germans could have captured these three of our I-15s and quickly taught their pilots to fly them. But that is hardly true. German fighters were in charge of the air in those days, and sending German pilots into the air on the most obsolete type of our fighters, the I-15, meant exposing them to the very real danger of being shot down by their own Messerschmitts.

    What the people who pulled the half-burnt corpse of the alleged German pilot out of the cockpit told me probably simply answered their spiritual needs. They could not come to terms with the fact that our first planes they saw that day mistakenly fired at us from the air. It was unbearably hard to believe, and that is where the version about the corpse of the German pilot was born.
    Simonov knew what he was talking about, he himself survived the tragedy of 41 near Smolensk. As he did... You remember, Alyosha, the roads of Smolensk,...... But of course, there were plenty of oddities, that's what war is for.
    1. -1
      1 June 2025 10: 43
      Quote: Unknown
      when I thought that the Germans could have captured these three of our I-15s and quickly taught their pilots to fly them. But that's hardly true.

      This is true, for example, during the battle for Stalingrad and elsewhere, the Luftwaffe used captured Soviet aircraft with Soviet identification marks for surprise assault strikes on Soviet troops and for reconnaissance in the air defense zone, countering aviation, using the I16, Il2, Pe2, etc.

      The Finns used captured SB and I16 tanks with both their own and our insignia.

      But ours also used the Me, for example, for reconnaissance, as far as I remember, Pokryshkin
      1. +2
        1 June 2025 14: 50
        It is a well-known fact that the Finns used captured Soviet aircraft. The use of Soviet aircraft by the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front? I would like a documentary source from the Luftwaffe...
        1. -2
          2 June 2025 08: 06
          Quote: Grencer81
          I would like a documentary source from the Luftwaffe...

          on the website luftarchiv.de in the photo from there il-4, i-153, Pe-2, etc. in the service of the nazis
          1. +1
            2 June 2025 09: 11
            The answer is incorrect... I asked not about the photo from the site, but about the source about the combat use of captured Soviet aircraft on the Eastern Front by the Luftwaffe. Precisely combat use...
      2. 0
        1 June 2025 19: 14
        Quote: Olgovich
        this is true, for example, during the battle for Stalingrad and not only

        Well, of course, Simonov somehow knows the truth that the Germans will fly our I-15s on the seventh day of the war. It's a pity that Konstantin Mikhailovich didn't come across Olgovich in those distant times, he wasn't even listed in the project yet, otherwise he would have explained everything, where the truth is and where it isn't. lol
    2. +2
      1 June 2025 12: 02
      that the special agents do not go on the attack, they have other duties
      - a controversial point, war is full of surprises and it can be different, generals also shouldn't go on the attack and we remember General Lizyukov, after whom a famous street in Voronezh is named...
      1. Fat
        0
        1 June 2025 12: 26
        I support, During the defense of Stalingrad, NKVD soldiers fought on the front lines and died just like the Red Army soldiers. They fought well, not sparing themselves...
        1. +4
          1 June 2025 14: 51
          NKVD fighters are not special officers who went on the attack only in extreme and exceptional cases.
          1. -1
            2 June 2025 03: 44
            Quote: Grencer81
            NKVD fighters are not special officers who went on the attack only in extreme and exceptional cases.

            NKVD fighters are border guards!
            1. +1
              2 June 2025 05: 15
              There were many NKVD troops...
        2. +2
          1 June 2025 14: 54
          The city of Tula was actually defended in 1941
          (purely "lucky") some NKVD officers, plus
          a pair of anti-aircraft batteries of 85 mm guns,
          who, again by pure chance,
          armor-piercing shells were found in stock
          and even OFS for ground targets :-)))
          This was in 1941!? But I repeat, I was just "lucky"...
      2. 0
        1 June 2025 18: 13
        Quote: faiver
        - a controversial point, war is full of surprises and it can be different, generals also shouldn’t go on the attack and we remember General Lizyukov, after whom a famous street in Voronezh is named.

        Well, yes, in orderly rows... and all generals lol Lizyukov received the rank of general in 42, and when he held this rank on the attack?
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. -4
      1 June 2025 14: 45
      Be able to disassemble/assemble AK
      absolutely does NOT mean to be able to
      shoot and properly clean the AK.
      Therefore, anyone who has had the opportunity
      a couple of times during the whole term
      shoot ten people with a machine gun
      cartridges at a time, single,
      Of course they do NOT know how to clean it.
      OsoAviaKhim had the same
      the most total parsley
      show-offs: who knew how to figure it out
      and collect the "three-line" and
      shoot a few from it
      dozens of cartridges, that one
      certainly did NOT know how to do either
      clean this "three-line",
      neither understand the reasons even the most
      the simplest "jambs" and delays,
      arising during the shooting process.
      1. 0
        1 June 2025 18: 55
        Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
        Be able to disassemble/assemble AK
        absolutely does NOT mean to be able to
        shoot and clean AK properly

        No need to talk nonsense, at NVP they took apart and assembled AKs blindfolded, the entire vocational school course went to the shooting range. Vseobuch is not Osoviahim, they even taught how to handle a machine gun there. Every large plant had its own Vseobuch, they were preparing for war then. They knew the Mosin rifle like the back of their hand.
        1. -2
          2 June 2025 06: 41
          Quote: Unknown
          Vseobuch is not Osoviahim, They even taught us how to use a machine gun thereEach large plant had its own Vseobuch, then they were preparing for war. They knew the Mosin like the back of their hand.

          Hugo, after which it turned out that "the fighters have a very low level of training" and a problem arose global problem with SVT.
          And the ABC turned out to be space for the fighters...
          And so - "they even taught us with a machine gun", yeah-yeah.....
          1. +1
            2 June 2025 07: 14
            Quote: your1970
            Hugo, after which it turned out that "the fighters have a very low level of training" and a global problem with the SVT arose.
            And the ABC turned out to be space for the fighters...
            And so - "they even taught us with a machine gun", yeah-yeah.....

            Actually, do you know what we're talking about? "Low level of training", who? Construction battalion and other auxiliary units? USSR, illiteracy didn't have time to completely eliminate by the 40s, who to train. Talks nonsense. What's the problem with SVT, do you know? This rifle requires careful care, not everyone even now will deal with it. Smart fighters, had no problems with SVT and ABC, just like the Finns, Germans and... partisans?! But the Mosin rifle, simple, understandable to any mobilized person, cheap to produce, the main thing mass, was in service until the end of the war.
            1. -1
              2 June 2025 07: 43
              Quote: Unknown
              Actually, does anyone know what this is about? "Low level of training"? Construction battalion and other auxiliary units? USSR, illiteracy did not manage to be completely eliminated by the 40s, who should be trained? He is talking nonsense.

              Someone in the post above sang songs about
              Quote: Unknown
              Vseobuch is not Osoviahim, They even taught us how to use a machine gun thereEach large plant had its own universal training, then they were preparing for war.

              The machine gun is obviously more complicated than the SVT - if a soldier was taught to disassemble a machine gun in the Universal Military Training, then he will disassemble the SVT.
              Another issue is that Soviet show-off has always existed, even in Vseobuch. Drawing a benevolent report to the top is a sacred thing, but the reality
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Quote: Boris Chernikov
              of course ... but even now not every soldier understands that a machine gun needs to be looked after ... but in those years ... this was more difficult

              Harder - this is very mildly said. smile
              In parts of 97 SD rifles manufactured in 1940. , which were on hand for no more than 4 months, up to 29% are reduced to a state of rust in the barrel, machine guns "DP" manufactured in 1939 to 14% also have a deterioration of the barrel channels.
              © The KOVO weapons verification act for the 1940th year.
              The disdainful attitude towards the instruction on the storage and conservation of weapons in military units / § 222, 242 /, ignorance of the device of automatic weapons, its disassembly rules were brought to such a state that automatic rifles "ABC", submachine guns "Degtyarev", when disassembled by hardening, started in the gas paths, the entire gas exhaust unit is covered with rust, the surface of the barrel and other parts are heavily rusty. The same state of gas routes and machine guns "DP"
              © ibid.
              To great shame, and chagrin, cadet regiment schools have lesser knowledge of small arms than the knowledge of the Red Army, and yet despite this they are issued by junior commanders.
              There is no need to talk about the rules, cleaning weapons, and their inspection by younger commanders.
              © ibid.
              Unfortunately, there are still such commanders as junior lieutenant comrade **** (791 joint venture), who has only 6 rifles in the unit, and upon examination, all the rifles turned out to be rusty, his personal revolver "Nagant" was also rusty. , in the drum of which there were three spent cartridges. The revolver, according to the statement of junior lieutenant comrade ****, was not cleaned after firing for 3 months.
              © Order to the troops of the 5th army "On the results of the verification of the artillery property and in units of the 135th rifle division, 36 ltbr, 330 gap argk and corps units of the 27th army"
              Upon examination, they were rusty in the bore, on the outside or dirty with a coating under a bed of sand, garbage and even oats and hay: 1019 rifles, 381 Nagan revolvers, 24 DP machine guns, 13 Maxim machine guns, 15 - 50 mm mortars and 4 120 mm mortars
              © Order to the troops of the 5th army "On the results of verification of artillery weapons in the 87th division".


              https://topwar.ru/177462-vintovka-svt-40-shag-vpered-v-oruzhejnom-dele-ili-neudacha-konstruktora.html
              1. 0
                2 June 2025 12: 09
                Quote: your1970
                Someone in the post above sang songs about

                The machine gun is obviously more complicated than the SVT - if a soldier was taught to disassemble a machine gun in the Universal Military Training, then he will disassemble the SVT.
                Another issue is that Soviet show-off has always existed, even in Vseobuch. Drawing a benevolent report to the top is a sacred thing, but the reality
                What machine gun? more complicated than SVT, delve into the topic https://yandex.ru/video/preview/7493583316985123720?text=разборка%20СВТ&path=yandex_search&parent-reqid=1748854561677864-7241553022249242805-balancer-l7leveler-kubr-yp-klg-179-BAL&from_type=vast . Maxim, tar is much simpler. Just somehow bite the USSR. Show-off now it's like dirt , everywhere. Take any military unit and you can easily draw up the orders given above, the state of small arms, equipment, will be the same, if not worse. Apparently, the president, from whom you swoon as an official, also receives "favorable reports" drawn up by the bureaucracy. "One hand washes the other" lol
                1. -2
                  2 June 2025 12: 34
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Maxim, tar is much simpler.

                  Therefore, machine gunners were trained for a longer period of time in special machine gun courses, while the SVT was mastered by regular infantry.
                  Quote: Unknown
                  Show-offs are everywhere these days. Take any military unit and you can easily draw up the orders given above, the state of small arms and equipment will be the same, if not worse.

                  You open the Acceptance Certificate of the People's Commissariat of Defense and watch as Comrade Zhukov describes Comrade Voroshilov's show.
                  There is enough there that at the time of the reception of the People's Commissariat the exact number of the Red Army is unknown belay belay belay
                  It is completely unknown - which immediately makes it interesting - how many people, underpants and cartridges have they prepared for?
                  And then, with soldierly directness, "yes (obscenity) he knows!!!" - because there are no staffing levels and no provision for provisions either.

                  Quote: Unknown
                  Apparently, the president, who you swoon over as an official, also receives "favorable reports" compiled by the bureaucracy

                  But "If there is a war tomorrow, we will be right oh and with little bloodshed on foreign territory" (c) - and comrade Voroshilov did not get an extra hole in his dome but got a promotion
                  Quote: Unknown
                  "A hand washes a hand"
                  Well, how can you offend a heroic fighter for Tsaritsyn? lol - only increase...
                  He really almost overwhelmed the mighty Finnish army of Suomi with 36 tanks - but that's nothing!!! Who counted those losses - if the size of the army is unknown?
                  1. +2
                    2 June 2025 18: 45
                    Quote: your1970
                    Therefore, machine gunners were trained for a longer period of time in special machine gun courses, while the SVT was mastered by regular infantry.

                    Out of topic, but still in the same place.Machine gunners were trained - INTERACTION with an infantry squad. In the SA, in the training school, they trained squad commanders, driver mechanics, gunner operators - that's it. Machine gunners, grenade launchers in companies.
                    Quote: your1970
                    You open the Acceptance Certificate of the People's Commissariat of Defense and watch as Comrade Zhukov describes Comrade Voroshilov's show.

                    We open any old media outlet and read how the ministers Grachev, Ivanov, Serdyukov... Shoigu describe the show. The exact number of the army is also unknown, with each new minister the dress code changes, but there is not enough of it in the troops, but free can be purchased at the market. And where did the mobilization reserves go from the SA, no one in the Ministry of Defense can really explain. And then with thieves' directness they declare - they stole, they open cases against their deputies, they get from 5 to 7 years... suspended!? With the new minister, everything is the same old story. Great!
                    Quote: your1970
                    But "If there is a war tomorrow, we will be right oh and with little bloodshed on foreign territory" (c) - and comrade Voroshilov did not get an extra hole in his dome but got a promotion

                    The same, but we'll take Grozny with one airborne regiment, and it turned out...as it should have turned out, when everything was destroyed, stolen and sold to the same Chechens! And where did Mr. Grachev go? To prison? Not at all.
                    Quote: your1970
                    Well, how can you offend a heroic fighter for Tsaritsyn - only increase...
                    He really almost overwhelmed the mighty Finnish army of Suomi with 36 tanks - but that's nothing!!! Who counted those losses - if the size of the army is unknown?

                    That's right, how can you thank the "heroic savior of the regime from the red plague" of October 93, only with untouchability. He also filled the Chechen one with boys and that was with shepherds, refrigerators are still standing in Rostov, with unidentified ones. There is no need to count the losses here, the women will not give birth anymore, so we will bring in Central Asians, but Kadyrov is the Kremlin's best friend.
                    1. -1
                      3 June 2025 10: 05
                      Quote: Unknown
                      Out of topic, but still in the same direction. Machine gunners were trained - TO COOPERATE with the infantry squad. CA fool In the training school they trained squad commanders, driver mechanics, gunner operators - everyone. Machine gunners, grenade launchers in companies.

                      There were SVTs in SA????!!!!! Wow...
                      The conversation was about PRE-WAR period and you yourself - yourself!!!!!! - attach a picture showing that the machine gun is a complex and important weapon.
                      Don't you understand that if a weapon that requires a crew was taught specifically in machine gun courses, then the SVT rifle is easier to learn????
                      Quote: Unknown
                      This rifle requires careful maintenance, not everyone even now he'll deal with her.
                      - did it have a crew of at least 2 people? Or is it a hyper celestial body piercer?

                      Quote: Unknown
                      Also, but we'll take Grozny with one airborne regiment, and it turned out...as it should have turned out, when everything was destroyed, stolen and sold to the same Chechens! And where did Mr. Grachev go? To prison? Not at all.

                      Soviet marshals and degenerates had a ceiling in development at the level of even stripes on blankets, piping, snowdrifts in cubes on a thread and shoe polish.
                      They were the ones who screwed up the USSR and not one of the 4 Soviet generals shot himself out of shame for betraying the oath (the 500 shady ones don’t count).
                      The PCV was also screwed by Soviet-trained generals who were at least colonels in the USSR.

                      Quote: Unknown
                      That's exactly it, how can you thank the "heroic savior of the regime from the red plague" of October 93, except with untouchability
                      Are the BD deputies the "red plague"? Well, well, well...
                      The only question is - why did the population not care once again? It was Soviet, with ideology and a party past. If 420 Moscow members of the CPSU as of 000 had come, that's it - no tanks could have crushed them.....
                      Oh no, they didn't come...

                      Quote: Unknown
                      He also filled up the Chechen one with boys and this was with shepherds, refrigerators are still standing in Rostov, with unidentified

                      Are there 120 losses there, like in Finland?
                      1. +1
                        3 June 2025 13: 20
                        Quote: your1970
                        There were SVTs in SA????!!!!! Wow...
                        The conversation was about the PRE-WAR period and you yourself - yourself!!!!!! - attached a picture showing that a machine gun is a complex and important weapon

                        It doesn't get through; you can feel the bureaucratic nature. The difference between a heavy machine gun and a light machine gun do you understand? It was about the structure of the machine guns of that time. Maxim, a heavy machine gun, the weight of the Sokolov mount for the Maxim machine gun model 1910/30 is 43,4 kg! The box is up to 10,3 kg. You need to look at the picture more carefully, there are 2 cartridge carriers, and you still have to carry the mount. The Maxim itself is almost the same age as the Mosin and just as simple. https://yandex.ru/video/preview/4162305629180499600?text=video%20disassembling%20machine gun%20maxim&path=yandex_s search&parent-reqid=1748940195131283-7129231590128380448-balancer-l7leveler-kubr-yp-sas-170-BAL&from_type=vas DP-27 light machine gun, also difficult nohttps://yandex.ru/video/preview/6190670435968107096?text=video%20razborki%20%20pulletem%20DP%20-27&path=yandex_search&parent-reqid=1748940275679009-14172818551052771725-balancer-l7leveler-kubr-yp-sas-170-BAL&from_type=vast .In battle, the coherence of the calculation is important , which Maxim has 5 people, hence the long preparation. For DP-27 it is not needed. The main thing is, interaction with a platoon, company. The design of the SVT-40 included 143 parts, including 22 springs. The need to adjust the gas outlet. This created difficulties in production and operation, as it required precise adherence to technological rules. The rifle required competent maintenance and careful care, which was impossible to ensure in the conditions of mass conscription. Got it?
                        Quote: your1970
                        Soviet marshals and degenerates had a ceiling in development at the level of even stripes on blankets, piping, snowdrifts in cubes on a thread and shoe polish.
                        They were the ones who screwed up the USSR and not one of the 4 Soviet generals shot himself out of shame for betraying the oath (the 500 shady ones don’t count).
                        The PCV was also screwed by Soviet-trained generals who were at least colonels in the USSR.

                        Let's not touch the Soviet generals, they have the victory of the Great Patriotic War behind them, and in the post-war period the SA was on the level. Let's talk about the post-Soviet period.
                        The number of generals in the Russian army is a highly secretive fact. At the beginning of 2020, there were 2 of them in all security agencies. And what about successes? For example, the Soviet General Shchelokov, although a cop, but still an army general, a participant in the Great Patriotic War, stole money... but had the courage to shoot himself. Today, there are already 205 generals under investigation. At least, if you believe the public data... And which of them shot themselves out of shame?NO ONE And as things go, they don’t intend to, by no means, everyone keeps saying - We are not guilty.So, shall we continue to rant about the post-Soviet generals? And how did they behave during the march of the "presidential chef"? And affectionately persuaded calm down and don't make hasty decisions. lol
                        Quote: your1970
                        The only question is - the population once again didn't care - why? It was Soviet, with ideology and a party past.

                        It's like saying, on the outskirts of the USSR the population didn't care at all. But, in the then RSFSR, the population was told by the liberal media that it would not survive a second civil war, it was only a question of changing the top of the USSR and the CPSU. The rest would remain as before. No shock therapy for you, no market that would put everything in its place, there was no talk. I would like to know. And how many members of United Russia ran to defend the existing government during the famous march?
                        Quote: your1970
                        Are there 120 losses there, like in Finland?

                        So the military actions are different. There is the Soviet-Finnish War from November 30, 1939 to March 12, 1940. And here is Decree No. 2137 "On measures to restore constitutional legality and law and order on the territory of the Chechen Republic" 1994-96. As they say, "feel the difference." And about the losses. "Russia and the USSR in the wars of the 95th century" edited by G.F. Krivosheev. It says there; 348 thousand XNUMX people. This is to that
                        Who counted those losses if the size of the army is unknown?
                        And it turns out they counted. And the Finns perished, not a few 52 thousand people. Just don't cite the data of the Swede Mannerheim, who reported that the irretrievable Finnish losses amounted to 24 thousand 923 people, and 43 thousand 557 people were wounded. Like in the joke; At first the map didn't go.
                        And then one says, "I have a point," and I show him, show him, and he
                        "Gentlemen believe the word"
                        And here I have a map as it flooded .... laughing
                      2. -2
                        3 June 2025 15: 03
                        Continue to pray to the icon of comrade Voroshilov's style.
                        Quote: Unknown
                        And it turns out they counted.

                        It doesn't work. I repeat - on 07.05 1940- the Act clearly states that The exact actual size of the army is unknown.
                        Two months after the war, Voroshilov was unable to count the army's heads.
                        Therefore, any calculations
                        Quote: Unknown
                        edited by G.F. Krivosheev. It says: 95 thousand 348 people
                        - are unreliable.

                        If we replace the People's Commissar, rifles and Red Army soldiers in the act with modern analogues, then it will be impossible to determine the year of writing. Any year after the 1950s of the 20th - early 21st century.


                        Quote: Unknown
                        And who of them shot themselves out of shame? NO ONE And in the process, they don’t intend to, not at all, everyone keeps saying - we are not guilty.

                        I take it you think that I am defending the current generals? No, I absolutely agree - that many should swing a pick and carry a saw.

                        Quote: Unknown
                        I would like to know. How many members of United Russia ran to defend the current government during the famous march?
                        The number of United Russia members is not even close to the number of members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
                        And regarding the cook, I wrote here back in 2015 that you can't play with this on your own territory, somewhere in Africa, not closer. The army should protect the country, and not some incomprehensible hell of a thing without a legal basis. Oligarchs are oligarchs even in Africa, which is what came out.
                      3. +1
                        3 June 2025 22: 29
                        Quote: your1970
                        Continue to pray to the icon of comrade Voroshilov's style.

                        Well, yes, Voroshilov is not the one, but the one who launched a counterattack against Manstein near Soltsy, when others could not even think about it (July 14-18, 1941) - one of the first successful counterattacks against German troops, launched by Soviet troops in the area of ​​the city of Soltsy. Voroshilov So let's not talk about him.
                        It doesn't work. I repeat - on 07.05. 1940 - the Act clearly states that the exact actual number of the army is unknown.
                        Two months after the war, Voroshilov was unable to count the army's heads.
                        Therefore, any calculations
                        Quote: Unknown
                        edited by G.F. Krivosheev. It says: 95 thousand 348 people
                        - are unreliable.
                        Why talk nonsense, and even refer to Voroshilov. Preparing operations - General base, and specifically Shaposhnikov, he allocates funds and forces to carry out operations, this is an axiom of war. Everything is calculated and taken into account, including personnel allocated forces. So that everything is true.

                        Quote: your1970
                        I take it you think that I am defending the current generals? No, I absolutely agree - that many should swing a pick and carry a saw.
                        So don't point the finger at Soviet generals, take a closer look at the current ones and then draw your own conclusions.
                        Quote: your1970
                        The number of United Russia members is not even close to the number of members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

                        So the Russian Federation is not the USSR, and everything is still ahead.
                        Quote: your1970
                        And about the cook

                        Normal state, does not create private military structures that are subordinate to whoever pays.
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. +1
            2 June 2025 19: 06
            Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
            My grandfather served his term in the infantry from the summer of 1937.
            until autumn 1940 in the Far East

            How old is the grandson who remembers and comprehends his grandfather's stories about the "backwardness of our infantry"?
            who for some reason ended up in Berlin in 45. How could the grey-pawed ones do it? Yes, Shpakovsky #2. I'm 61, I also have a grandson, a granddaughter of 10 - 6 years old, and I'm going to tell them about the war!? Utter nonsense! At this age, they have more important things to do, the world is just opening up, and here they're talking about the peculiarities of our infantry. lol
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. 0
                3 June 2025 22: 32
                Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                This is my granny, his daughter,
                once said

                That says it all drinks
        3. The comment was deleted.
          1. +5
            2 June 2025 20: 45
            Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
            In the spring of 1941, the Savian tank crews
            were poured into the received ones en masse
            brand new T-34...GASOLINE!?!
            Moreover, in the presence of the company commander!?
            Minus ten diesel engines at once
            into scrap metal in one run...
            This is NOT even Vsevobuch and OsoAviaKhim.

            Were you personally present when filling with fuel? The Red Army used gasoline, kerosene, ligroin, gas oil, diesel oil, which of the listed will suit the B-2 34, our smart guy? If there is diesel fuel left in the tank and the diesel is not turned off, it will work, smoke, the power drops intermittently, turn it off - it will not start. The whole problem is in the high-pressure fuel pump, it can fail. The pump can be replaced, repaired, in the end, it may not break, drain the gasoline, flush the tanks, fill with diesel fuel and try to start. Tales about diesel engines in scrap metal - for the night. fellow
            1. -3
              3 June 2025 08: 45
              Document from 1941 about filling with gasoline
              there is a scan of it in the archives
              posted online yet
              about 10 years ago.
              It seems you are the only one who knows him.
              I haven't seen it yet :-)))
              That is, tankers not only in general
              did NOT undergo any
              training, and even
              basic instructions!?
              A batch of new T-34s just
              unloaded somewhere near the border
              (I think KOVO) and immediately
              handed over to the crews...
              1. 0
                3 June 2025 22: 51
                Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                Document from 1941 about filling with gasoline
                there is a scan of it in the archives
                posted online yet
                10 years ago

                That document does not say whose fault it was, how the other fuel was added, or what measures were taken.
                Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                That is, tankers not only in general
                did NOT undergo any
                training, and even
                basic instructions!

                Don't consider the drivers of those times idiots, I repeat for those who don't get it. Whose fault was it that gasoline was used instead of diesel fuel and what measures were taken.
                Quote: Sharikov Polygraph Poligrafovich
                A batch of new T-34s just
                unloaded somewhere near the border
                (I think KOVO) and immediately
                handed over to the crews

                It does not happen.Acceptance certificates must must be. "This is not like buying a donkey!" laughing
              2. 0
                5 June 2025 21: 44
                Sharikov, you don't know history at all. In addition to diesel engines, the T-34 also had M-17 petrol engines.
        4. 0
          3 June 2025 19: 30
          No need to talk nonsense, at NVP they took apart and reassembled AKs blindfolded,
          Absolutely right. In the 10th grade we shot from air guns in the school recreation area at 10 m, then in the school basement from small-bore rifles at 30 m at a reduced target, and finally at the shooting range of the Anti-Aircraft School we shot from an AK at 100 m. This was 1971-72, provincial Orenburg.
  4. 0
    1 June 2025 08: 46
    "It shows that the train carriage was overcrowded. And that the newly drafted guys, who had never even held a rifle in their hands, were being taken to the front. But it would have been more logical to send them to the same Samara, train them, and only then send them to war. But... that's exactly how it was then!"

    Thank you for publishing, Vyacheslav Olegovich!
    If only I knew in advance,
    What, when, will happen,
    With whom, when, will the war begin,
    How will all this turn out...
    You are right. Then it was necessary to stop the Germans. At least slow them down.
    Perhaps, thanks to such ruthlessness towards their own and hatred towards their enemies, the USSR, Germany and all the other countries of Europe survived.
  5. +3
    1 June 2025 09: 35
    For example, I seemed to know that letters from the war years were folded into a triangle. At least, that's how it is in all the war movies. But Uncle Kostya's letters were in envelopes, albeit very small ones. And one envelope even had a stamp. Isn't that strange? And how can it be explained?

    There is nothing strange about this. Triangles appeared at the beginning of the war due to a shortage of envelopes (more than 10 billion (!) letters were delivered during the war). The triangle is the most famous way to do without an envelope. There was also a "secret" - the sheet was folded in half. Such mailings did not require a postage stamp. But this did not cancel the sending of letters in envelopes, if such were available. By the way, envelopes for regular letters in the USSR were issued in three formats (mm) - 157x111, 111x78 and 132 x 93.
    1. +5
      1 June 2025 09: 42
      The drunk pilot and the girl are classic panic rumors. Apparently, the letter was sent through a regular post office and did not pass censorship. Otherwise, all this "fantasy" would have been "painted over".
      1. +3
        1 June 2025 13: 33
        About a drunk pilot and a girl - classic panic rumors
        panic is about parachute landings in the deep rear or about German motorcyclists on the Khimki highway bridge
        And in this case, it is just common folk wisdom born from retellings.
        1. The comment was deleted.
  6. +3
    1 June 2025 10: 36
    Regarding missing persons. My father's elder brother, Mitrofan Semenovich Inshakov, born in 1919 (see photo) went missing in Stalingrad in the fall of 1942. These were the responses to inquiries to the military registration and enlistment office in the 50s and 60s. And only recently on the website "Feat of the People" I found that he died on September 19, 1942 in Stalingrad on 2nd Rechnaya Street. So now you can also find updated information about this relative.
    1. +1
      1 June 2025 12: 37
      About missing persons


      Yes, my grandmother was looking for a letter from a friend about the death of her husband, my grandfather, and it turned out to be in an archive in Podolsk...
      Now it is on the website "Memory of the People" thanks to a letter from Lieutenant Nikonov, a member of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), my grandfather was declared dead, the lieutenant himself went through Khalkhin Gol, the Finnish and died in February 45... the search was immediately after the end of the war
      1. 0
        1 June 2025 14: 44
        Well, here is the answer to our request from 1960. They also wrote that he went missing in action on 10.1941. There were no letters from him at all.
        1. 0
          2 June 2025 16: 40
          Just imagine: a carriage full of conscripts, with them, say, a lieutenant and a sergeant to help. All the documents, of course, are in the lieutenant's commander's bag. And somewhere along the line or even at the station - a direct hit by an aerial bomb on this carriage...
          That's it, what information about the missing person are you demanding from whom?
          1. -1
            2 June 2025 16: 47
            I'm talking about my specific case. In 1960, the document about the death was not found, but it was there, it only surfaced in the 34st century when the losses of the 13th Guards Rifle Regiment of the XNUMXth Guards Order of Lenin Rifle Division were digitized.
  7. +4
    1 June 2025 11: 29
    A common theme in the army. Exaggeration and telling stories with fantastic details in letters.
    1. 0
      5 June 2025 21: 56
      "The 9th Company by Fyodor Bondarchuk may seem like a collection of tall tales, but all the incidents in his film are true. The same with his film "Stalingrad". It is also very historical, despite its seeming implausibility.
      So, there is no point in throwing around accusations of lying.
  8. +2
    1 June 2025 12: 03
    Interesting story, I enjoyed reading this article.
  9. +2
    1 June 2025 12: 10
    With the publication of the OBD I found my missing uncle, my mother's older brother. What happened: Moscow sent a funeral notice in January 45, that he died on October 26, 44, but I know the unit and where it fought, there were battles there in October 43, that's when we received the last letter.
    He was a minor and had no right to die in 43, so the funeral notice was held back, and then the local military registration and enlistment office sent him back to Moscow. People like that don’t live here, my grandfather and his father had a conflict with them.
  10. Fat
    +5
    1 June 2025 12: 21
    Very often, interest in history arises from stories told by relatives. My father fought at Stalingrad. He defended the "Red October" plant: a mortarman, and that's where he "died", or rather, a funeral notice came for him. He was pulled out on November 17 by "dzhigits" from his platoon...
    He never talked about battles, but he willingly shared stories about his front-line life.
    I am sure that the study of history should begin with the history of one's own family. And then step by step the history of the Motherland and the entire human race... smile
    Well, in general, thank you Vyacheslav Olegovich...
    1. +2
      1 June 2025 16: 49
      November 17, 1942 Stalingrad plant "Red October:"

      Hello, Andrey Borisovich. It turns out that your father and my great-uncle fought in the same place at the same time. Our uncle Vasya - Sokolov Vasily Maksimovich fought in Stalingrad's "Red October": from October 1, 42 as part of the "parachute" 112th Guards Rifle Regiment of the 39th Guards Rifle Division of the 62nd Army. He died in 1943 during the liberation of left-bank Ukraine.
  11. +3
    1 June 2025 12: 42
    And here are the questions: how did these strange individuals get on a German Air Force military plane and what were they doing there?
    They didn't get there - it was a product of rumors
    But this is a real find for filmmakers,
    That's true, that's what filmmakers usually do - they either include some rumor in the script or make it up themselves.
    1. 0
      1 June 2025 16: 00
      Quote: Lewww
      They didn't get there - it was a product of rumors

      I can't say "yes", I can't say "no". However, it happens that a girl's husband dies, and a widow's husband lives.
      1. 0
        1 June 2025 17: 01
        I can't say yes, I can't say no.

        Aha
        I'm not so brave, Misha, to tell you "no".
        But I don't say "yes" either.
        This will be my answer.
        laughing
        1. +1
          1 June 2025 17: 08
          Quote: Lewww
          This will be my answer.

          Because this piece of yellowed paper is the only source of information. You will say that these are rumors, that someone could say that such a thing could happen. Personally, I have been convinced many times in my life that anything can happen. And the most incredible things happen. And it looks like a stupid invention.
          1. +1
            1 June 2025 17: 37
            Because this piece of yellowed paper is the only source of information.
            Any source must be assessed and the information it contains subsequently rechecked. But sometimes this is not required because it is immediately obvious that the information is unreliable, as in this case about a drunk 16-year-old pilot in the company of a 17-year-old girl.
            The key phrase in your uncle's letter:
            true, I haven't seen it myself».
            1. 0
              1 June 2025 18: 04
              Quote: Lewww
              Because this piece of yellowed paper is the only source of information.
              Any source must be assessed and the information it contains subsequently rechecked. But sometimes this is not required because it is immediately obvious that the information is unreliable, as in this case about a drunk 16-year-old pilot in the company of a 17-year-old girl.
              The key phrase in your uncle's letter:
              true, I haven't seen it myself».

              That's right! And yet, this is also information. And it is impossible to verify. It is a given. Which can be easily classified as both "oddities" and "rumors".
              1. +2
                1 June 2025 18: 29
                Moreover, it is impossible to verify. It is a given.
                The fact is that you are ignorant.
                A pilot aged 16 could not join the Luftwaffe under any circumstances. This is not the Red Army Air Forces.
                Women served in the Luftwaffe, but they were forbidden from participating in direct combat operations.
                They could serve in ground air defense units, and several female pilots ferried planes to combat units.
                A person could only join the Luftwaffe after reaching the age of 18, then undergo training as a combat pilot for 1,5-2 years, and only then was he allowed into combat units.
                1. +1
                  2 June 2025 06: 48
                  Quote: Lewww
                  The fact is that you are ignorant.
                  A pilot aged 16 could not join the Luftwaffe under any circumstances. This is not the Red Army Air Forces.
                  Women served in the Luftwaffe, but they were forbidden from participating in direct combat operations.
                  They could serve in ground air defense units, and several female pilots ferried planes to combat units.
                  A person could only join the Luftwaffe after reaching the age of 18, then undergo training as a combat pilot for 1,5-2 years, and only then was he allowed into combat units.

                  Imagine that I know all this. But I also know that the most incredible things happen in real life.
          2. -2
            1 June 2025 18: 32
            "anything can happen" V. O, I agree with you here: anything can happen in war. Regarding the 16 year old boy and 17 year old girl. Theoretically, this could have happened: remember, the "Hitler Youth" division, it was formed by teenagers. But that was already in 1944
            In 1941? Who knows? Theoretically, maybe, but theory and practice don't really match.
            1. 0
              1 June 2025 19: 28
              Theoretically, it is possible.
              It's impossible, even in the most difficult times the Germans didn't put 16-year-old boys at the controls of combat aircraft.
              And in 41 the Luftwaffe was in its prime
              Excluded

              Hitlerjugend is infantry - cannon fodder. 6 weeks of training and then off to die for the Fuhrer
              1. -2
                2 June 2025 06: 51
                Quote: Lewww
                It's impossible, even in the most difficult times the Germans didn't put 16-year-old boys at the controls of combat aircraft.
                And in 41 the Luftwaffe was in its prime
                Excluded

                Hitlerjugend is infantry - cannon fodder. 6 weeks of training and then off to die for the Fuhrer

                The regiment commander's son came to visit. He's studying at a flight school. With his sister... They drank to the Fuhrer. "Dad, let me fly the Russians!?" "Yes, fly!" "You keep an eye on him there..." (to the crew). The situation in the conditions of general euphoria is quite real. People are people.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. 0
                    2 June 2025 10: 52
                    Quote: Lewww
                    Vyacheslav, I realized a long time ago that you are a dreamer.
                    There is no point in further discussion - continue the section you opened WEEKEND STORY

                    The fact that you are frank... I understood even earlier, but I am answering because even a black sheep can get a shred of something.
                    1. -1
                      2 June 2025 15: 11
                      So you write fantastic nonsense in order to get posts in the thread?
                      Well, good luck then - keep fantasizing laughing

                      By the way, a question for you, you wrote:
                      The regiment commander's son came to visit. He's studying at a flight school. With his sister... They drank to the Fuhrer. "Dad, let me fly the Russians!?" "Yes, fly!" "You keep an eye on him there..." (to the crew).
                      What kind of plane did the Germans have that besides the crew could it still seat two passengers? Which specific model?
                      Well, let's imagine laughing
                      1. 0
                        2 June 2025 15: 51
                        Quote: Lewww
                        Well, let's imagine

                        You have already been told that, yes, the fact is strange, goes "beyond the pale", looks generally absurd. But this is a fact described by a person of that time. And it could well be a rumor. But... You have also been told that all sorts of things happen and do happen in war. Even in the SVO. Therefore, it is more logical to simply accept this "for information" and that's it. You are trying with manic persistence to prove something and impose your point of view on me. And I am not trying to prove anything to anyone. So what fantasies, where did you see them?
                      2. -1
                        2 June 2025 17: 04
                        And this may well be a rumor. But... You were also told that all sorts of things happened and happen in the war
                        Anything can happen in war, but the impossible does not happen.
                        A tank cannot engage in aerial combat, and an aircraft cannot engage in ground attack with infantry.
                        And on June 22, 1941, in a German COMBAT PLANE, conducting combat operations on the territory of the USSR, there could not have been CHILDREN.

                        The reasons for the generation and spread of rumors are ignorance and poor information, which you clearly demonstrate in this case by assuring that such an event could actually have taken place.

                        And I asked you a question above:
                        What kind of plane did the Germans have that in addition to the crew, it could also seat two passengers? What specific model?
                        Will I see the answer, or have we moved on? laughing
                      3. 0
                        2 June 2025 21: 02
                        Quote: Lewww
                        there couldn't have been CHILDREN.

                        16-17 years old are no longer children.
                        Quote: Lewww
                        What specific model?

                        I don't know. Aviation is not my subject. "assuring that such an event could really have taken place." If you read the article and my answers to you carefully, you will notice that I never assure that this could have taken place. I am writing that absolutely anything can happen in war. As in life. The marine writer Lev Skryabin in his book "In the Footsteps of Sea Disasters" gave an example of an insurance dispute with Lloyd's. "At the time of emergency, the ship's captain secluded himself in his cabin and drank alcohol. The second mate was dead drunk, and the third mate gave the commander a Greek helmsman who did not know English and also had a hearing defect." Each fact in itself is quite real. But the reality of the totality of all these facts in one critical situation is equal to 0. But that's how it was.
                      4. -1
                        3 June 2025 09: 53
                        I don't know. Aviation is not my thing.
                        I already guessed
                        If you have read the article and my answers to you carefully, you will notice that I do not claim anywhere that this could have taken place. I am writing that absolutely anything can happen in war.
                        That is, you do not insist that the event you described could have taken place, you just insist that this event could have happened? what
                        Verbiage.
                        OK, I have no right to infringe on the sanctity of your beliefs. hi
                      5. 0
                        3 June 2025 11: 20
                        Quote: Lewww
                        Are you just insisting that this event could have happened?

                        It happens that a girl's husband dies, but the widow's husband lives.
                2. +1
                  9 June 2025 07: 45
                  Quote: kalibr
                  Quote: Lewww
                  It's impossible, even in the most difficult times the Germans didn't put 16-year-old boys at the controls of combat aircraft.
                  And in 41 the Luftwaffe was in its prime
                  Excluded

                  Hitlerjugend is infantry - cannon fodder. 6 weeks of training and then off to die for the Fuhrer

                  The regiment commander's son came to visit. He's studying at a flight school. With his sister... They drank to the Fuhrer. "Dad, let me fly the Russians!?" "Yes, fly!" "You keep an eye on him there..." (to the crew). The situation in the conditions of general euphoria is quite real. People are people.

                  I admit that the son could have been flying as a passenger and was mistaken for a pilot. Although there is no extra space in a combat aircraft. Although there is a possibility that it was a transport aircraft.
                  1. 0
                    9 June 2025 08: 54
                    Quote from Kartograph
                    I admit that the son could have been flying as a passenger and was mistaken for a pilot. Although there is no extra space in a combat aircraft. Although there is a possibility that it was a transport aircraft.

                    Well, who knows what could have been there. No amount of imagination could come up with what was actually there!
      2. 0
        14 June 2025 10: 04
        [quote=kalibr After all, neither a seventeen-year-old girl nor a sixteen-year-old boy could serve in the German air force by definition (or maybe they could and did serve?) [/quote]
        In the army, no, I mean in the Wehrmacht. But the Hitler Youth Fligkorps - maybe it was like that. Although it's still very strange - young pilots are 1945, not 41.
        Moreover, in Germany women could not wear shoulder straps in principle, since a woman should not command men. Look at the photo of Hanna Reitsch - she is in dresses of different styles, but with awards on them.
        It must be understood that in the Reich there was not a single officer or soldier who was a member of the NSDAP - upon entering service, a person was obliged to leave the party, since the oath was given to the people.
        But there were parallel structures of the party, and military ones at that.
  12. +4
    1 June 2025 16: 01
    a 16 year old drunk pilot, a 17 year old girl, the rest were adults, he writes, (navigator, radio operator and others)

    The guy retells stories he heard from someone in a letter, passing them off as something he saw personally. A fairly common situation in those conditions.
    1. +3
      1 June 2025 18: 39
      "stories heard from someone" is quite possible, but something else is also possible: the pilots were very young and from the outside they seemed to be 16 or 17 years old. That's what everyone was talking about.
  13. +1
    1 June 2025 18: 15
    V. Oh, about the cap. It is quite possible that he changed into uniform. The partisans periodically came out of the forest, and in civilian clothes you will be less noticeable than in an army uniform. This is just a remark "in the margins of a book."
  14. BAI
    +2
    1 June 2025 20: 37
    And then in 1942, my grandmother accidentally saw a photograph from a Belarusian partisan detachment in a newspaper

    Guerrilla unit - no ends to be found. My father-in-law was a scout in a guerrilla unit as a 13-year-old boy, there are written testimonies of witnesses and not a single official document
    1. 0
      9 June 2025 07: 39
      Quote: BAI
      And then in 1942, my grandmother accidentally saw a photograph from a Belarusian partisan detachment in a newspaper

      Guerrilla unit - no ends to be found. My father-in-law was a scout in a guerrilla unit as a 13-year-old boy, there are written testimonies of witnesses and not a single official document

      Why 13 years old if he was drafted into the army?
  15. +3
    2 June 2025 16: 22
    from Novgorod-Volynskyi

    arrived in Novgorod-Volynsky

    In a military echelon a person might not see/hear/understand, but for us - the city of Novograd-Volynsky. There was also a fortified area of ​​the same name.
    the same "things" were later bombed

    I seriously doubt that the conscript knew German army nickname Ju-87. And here they are called "bast shoes", "bast shoes" for the characteristic fairings of the chassis. Probably, the word "things" in the context should be understood as a synonym for "aircraft".
    1. -1
      3 June 2025 10: 10
      Perhaps the word "things" in context should be understood as a synonym for "aircraft".
      The things about this are apparently a fiction of the author of the article.
      The conscript could not have known this nickname, which was mentioned in Russian literature after the war, and then rarely and mainly in translated memoirs of Germans.
      And the phrase itself:
      "I'm finishing because things that are interesting to watch are starting to fly again."
      is perplexing.
      Watching planes drop bombs is not interesting, it's scary. Especially for a person who has just arrived at the front
      1. +2
        3 June 2025 11: 23
        Quote: Lewww
        The conscript could not have known this nickname, which was mentioned in Russian literature after the war, and then rarely and mainly in translated memoirs of Germans.

        He couldn't. But he wrote. What he meant will never be known.
      2. +2
        3 June 2025 11: 24
        Quote: Lewww
        The things about this are apparently a fiction of the author of the article.

        Should I show you a photocopy of the letter? Why should I make something up when here they are... the letters.
        1. 0
          3 June 2025 14: 26
          Would you like to see a photocopy of the letter?
          Yes, please provide a copy of the text where the text contains the phrase:

          "I'm finishing because things that are interesting to watch are starting to fly again."
          1. +1
            4 June 2025 19: 12
            Quote: Lewww
            a copy of the text where the text contains the phrase:

            Tomorrow...
            1. 0
              7 June 2025 10: 05
              As one of my managers used to say:
              "Promising to marry does not mean getting married" laughing

              Two days have passed, but there is still no fragment of the letter with the text
              1. 0
                8 June 2025 16: 15
                Quote: Lewww
                As one of my managers used to say:
                "Promising to marry does not mean getting married"

                Two days have passed, but there is still no fragment of the letter with the text

                And more will pass. Wait, it will not be lost from you. You will visit VO more often - ha-ha! The text is being moderated, today is Sunday. All normal people are resting.
                1. 0
                  9 June 2025 10: 19
                  Text under moderation
                  Are you making up stories again?
                  To post a picture from fragments of a letter, moderation is not required.
                  This is how I understood the phrase:
                  "I'm finishing because things that are interesting to watch are starting to fly again."
                  You made it up yourself, apparently it is either not in the original or is written differently.
                  1. 0
                    9 June 2025 11: 58
                    Quote: Lewww
                    Are you making up stories again?
                    To post a picture from fragments of a letter, moderation is not required.
                    This is how I understood the phrase:
                    "I'm finishing because things that are interesting to watch are starting to fly again."
                    You made it up yourself, apparently it is either not in the original or is written differently.

                    Lev! Are you pretending to be a complete idiot? Or do you not know how to read Russian text. Why should I post a picture in a post when I can make a full-fledged and interesting article on it and "give each sister a piece of jewelry"? It is simply not fitting for me to butt heads with you personally. It is petty... It would be better to write for everyone at once, at once. And remember that if I write that the text is ready, then that is what the text will be. If I write that it is being moderated, then it is being moderated. If I write that you will have to wait, then you will have to. Only bobbies jump up at the click of a button! Understand?
                    1. 0
                      9 June 2025 16: 22
                      You're pretending to be a fool.
                      June 4, 2025 19:12 pm you wrote that tomorrow Please post a photocopy of the fragment of the letter that contains the text:
                      "I'm finishing because they're starting again fly things, which are interesting to watch."
                      Today is June 8th, and the promise has still not been fulfilled.
                      that if I write that the text is ready, then that is how the text will be.
                      Well, yeah, yeah, who would have doubted it? Yes
                      As one of my managers used to say:
                      "Promising to marry does not mean getting married"
                      laughing
                      If there is no such fragment in the letter, then just write it, why this empty talk?
                      1. 0
                        9 June 2025 16: 49
                        Quote: Lewww
                        If there is no such fragment in the letter, then just write it, why this empty talk?

                        Once again, why do I need some "lion" when there can be a "mammoth" in the same place. Have patience. Maybe I enjoy simply tormenting someone like you? Sometimes I like to watch people twitch. It's so funny... You yourself wrote that promising to marry does not mean marrying at that very hour. So I thought about it and decided to postpone our wedding night. In any case, you will be below and I will be above. Be patient a little. The 5th will be the material with all the photocopies...
                      2. 0
                        9 June 2025 18: 04
                        In any case, you will be at the bottom and I will be at the top.
                        Well, old age is no joy, the quirks of age are obvious laughing
                        OK, I already understood that the text
                        "I'm finishing because things that are interesting to watch are starting to fly again."
                        You made it up yourself, but you are ashamed to admit it.
                        Keep writing - good luck, we need fairy tales for the site too. hi
                      3. 0
                        9 June 2025 18: 28
                        Quote: Lewww
                        You made it up yourself, but you are ashamed to admit it.

                        Why are you so hasty, Leo, like a woman whose period is leaking and who forgot her pads at home? Have patience. It makes a man beautiful. I wrote to you: the 5th article in a row. And you won't have to guess: did I make it up or not...
      3. 0
        3 June 2025 19: 47
        I was also alarmed by the term "Germans" in this letter. Of the front-line soldiers I knew, the enemy was always called Germans, sometimes Fritzes or Hans. Never Germans. Perhaps a peculiarity of Penza conscripts? And there is also a discrepancy with the Ju-87 bast shoe. We never called it a "thing". At all. That is, there are a lot of questions about the original document.
  16. 0
    9 June 2025 07: 36
    Well... A drunk 16 year old pilot landed a damaged plane.
  17. 0
    9 June 2025 12: 01
    Quote from Kartograph
    Well... A drunk 16 year old pilot landed a damaged plane.

    Yes, I agree. It looks very strange!