Military Review

Case-study: American special forces and Afghan shepherds

53
In June 2005 of the year, the four sea lions, as part of Operation Red Wings, conducted reconnaissance in the territory of Afghanistan, close to the Pakistani border. Their main "goal" was one of the leaders of al-Qaida, who had to be captured, or at least finish off.


Case-study: American special forces and Afghan shepherdsIt was known that with a detachment of well-armed militants "Mountain Tigers" he was hiding in remote places, mountains, in one of the villages. And so, at that very moment, when the special forces took a comfortable position, watching the village, a herd of bleating goats appeared next to it, and with them three shepherds: two adults and a boy of fourteen. Pointing at them weapon, The "seals" gave the signs to understand that they immediately sat down, and then began to confer.

On the one hand, before them were civilians, unarmed; on the other hand, if they are allowed to leave, they can inform the militants about the presence of Americans.

The ideal way out of this situation would be to firmly tie the shepherds and, in the meantime, change positions. However, the ropes were not at hand, but for some reason they did not guess to remove the clothes from the shepherds and use them as improvised material. As a result, there was only one choice, to shoot down random, potentially dangerous witnesses.

Then the squad leader Lt. Murphy made an unexpected decision - he put the question to the vote: what to do with the shepherds, kill them, or let them go?

One of the fighters - Matthew Axelson - declared: “We are in the war, behind enemy lines, sent here by command. We have the right to do everything to save our lives. So letting go of the shepherds would be a mistake. You should kill them. ”

Another fighter - Danny Dietz - abstained.

The third "cat" - Marcus lutrel - was in turmoil.

“I understood,” he recalled later, “that Matthew is right, and we should not let the shepherds go alive. However, having a Christian soul, I listened to her instructions, and she told me that it would be wrong to kill unarmed people. ”


In the end, it was his opinion that was decisive. The good shepherd in the imagination of the Christ-loving "cat" stroked the lamb, and the Afghan shepherds drove their goats further.

After about an hour and a half, the four “cats” were surrounded on three sides by the militants (the data vary, then fifty, one and a half), armed with AK-47 and grenade launchers, and after an intense exchange of fire, only Marcus survived. Along the way, spooks also shot down a helicopter that flew in to rescue the group, so that 16 special forces fighters who were aboard went to another world.

Well, foreman Marcus, badly wounded, was still able to go down a steep slope and, after a difficult journey, in a few days he reached the Pashtun village, from where he had already been taken away by his people.

Later, writing the book "Survivor" (Lone Survivor: SEA Team 10), foreman Marcus Lutrel unequivocally condemns his deed and even says that the decision to let go of the shepherds was "the most brainless decision in his life ", And" having prevailed in the vote in that vote, he signed the death sentence to the whole group, "so that fatal decision" will pursue him right up to the grave. "

This история in the mountains of Afghanistan immediately became widely known in the States. Harvard University professor Michael Sandel (Michael J. Sandel) even contributed this episode to his well-selling book “Justice: What does it do right” (Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?) As a case study on the topic of “moral dilemma”, which is considered with students as part of his super-popular course "Justice" (the last time more than a thousand listeners enrolled there).

He notes that, of course, it would be easier to make a decision, had it been known that these civilians (shepherds) cooperate with the Taliban and, although unarmed, they are undoubtedly enemies. And what if they do not cooperate? But what if the militants learned under torture from the shepherds, whom they met on the way, driving their goats home?

Is it right to kill them, allowing such a version of events?

At Harvard professor among the moral puzzles there is this: Imagine, he says, that you are a tram driver, and your brakes failed during the descent. On the paths in front of you are five workers, whom you will surely crush. But there is an opportunity to have time to turn to the second path, and there only one crush ...

Looking back, the surviving "fur seal" would have been guided not by the pious moods of the soul, but by the arguments of reason, in the style of the great accountant of morality, the arithmetic of the ethics of Jeremiah Bentham. And already in the States, seeing the Afghan mountains again in front of him, only in imagination, and realizing the choice - either the 19 of the American guys, or three shepherds, - he would send his trunk at the second vote without delay to the latter, regardless of whether they cooperate are they with the Taliban, or are they ready to hand over the whereabouts of the "seals" under torture ...

But this is all just a game of imagination.

So, what do we have in reality, according to the testimony of the survivor? Thanks to the introduction of democratic methods of control by the lieutenant in difficult combat conditions, as well as the soul of the foreman inclined to philanthropy, as the church teaches, the “Red Wing” operation failed miserably: the al Qaeda leader remained alive and for some time sowed death, the mountains still roam bearded and heavily armed shaitans, a helicopter was shot down, and nineteen corpses were brought to the States with honors. The living ones get up and, blowing a tear, sing God Bless America!

However, another turn of events was also possible; it could have entered into annals and another story. “Navy seals”, performing the task to which they were sent by the military commanders, fulfilling the order of the president, executing the will of the people, being close to the goal, without ceremony, would calmly shoot random, if not real, then all the same dangerous witnesses, for which the whole operation could fail ...

The operation is not failed, they are returning to their homeland, where, soon, with publicity, it would become that the "seals" killed civilians. To start here! Journalists, civil activists, gays and lesbians, politicized Christians, intellectual Muslims would organize pickets, protests, trials, an echo of indignation would reach Europe, the outskirts of Paris would again flaunt ...

There would be a court in the States, during which it would be revealed who had given the order to “remove” the shepherds from the path. And who knows, maybe Lieutenant Murphy would have been imprisoned, or, remaining at liberty, would have tolerated mockery from compatriots who had not fought, but had been reading books and dreamed of spreading democracy throughout the land, including Afghanistan. And so he is today a hero.

Well, the foreman Markus Lutrel after the end of the service is a guest at all the shows and patriotic events. This good-natured big guy keeps well on stage. At all the events, the “only survivor” came with a dog, presented to him by a puppy during the rehabilitation course.

He tells the audience how it was then. The hall is always full, everyone listens with a sinking breath. And all this time on the stage lies the yellow Labrador bitch DASY, in whose name the initial letters of the three dead fighters, associates of the foreman Marcus Lutrell, who released three Afghan shepherds with the world, are inserted ... But Daisy soon joined Marcus's friends: in 2009, a couple of imbeciles shot her when she walked in the yard. Why? So, for fun ...

What was really in the mountains then, we hardly know, and what we know from the words of the only survivor looks like a myth to some.

Meanwhile, Peter Berg, an American screenwriter, producer and director, began filming The Survivor, which is due to be released this year. Journalists are watching the filming, critics are burning with impatience, some of the military are protesting (all this in the Wall Street Journal “Will 'Lone Survivor' Be the Next 'Zero Dark Thirty'?”).

The US premiere is scheduled for November 15 2013.

In the meantime, you can bet on the main ideologeme of the film, the main theme: will the cinema be about the peculiarity of the American spirit, or will it be about its superiority?
Author:
Originator:
http://terra-america.ru/case-study-americanskie-pastuhi-i-afganskii-specnaz.aspx
53 comments
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  1. smel
    smel April 8 2013 06: 58
    +8
    The actions of the shepherds delight
    1. Murat 09
      Murat 09 April 8 2013 07: 52
      +3
      for sure, and 19 American freaks have not killed anyone else laughing , just the tone of the article is not clear, it was written as if with sympathy for the amers, and they are our enemies.
      1. antiaircrafter
        antiaircrafter April 8 2013 10: 58
        +2
        Quote: Murat 09
        the tone of the article is not clear, it is written as if with sympathy for amers

        I do not see any sympathy.
        A light banter is present.
      2. Maks111
        Maks111 April 8 2013 16: 32
        +1
        the tone of the article is just not clear, it was written with sympathy for the amers, as it were, they are our enemies.
        So spirits are also our enemies.
    2. domokl
      domokl April 8 2013 08: 09
      +5
      Quote: smel
      The actions of the shepherds delight
      The shepherds simply acted like normal highlanders ... the guest in the house is protected by the owner ... But the complete professional stupidity of the Americans really struck ... Where they were taught interestingly ... To give medals to teachers, the Afghan opposition for such training ...
      1. aksakal
        aksakal April 8 2013 12: 00
        +5
        Quote: domokl
        .And here, the complete professional stupidity of the Americans really struck ... Where they were taught interestingly..On teachers to give medals to the Afghan opposition for such training ...
        “She was especially killed because they didn’t guess to undress and tie, but tightly.” About four years ago I read the memoirs of a Russian commando who faced the exact same choice whether to kill an unarmed kid or not - so he connected him with this business. By the way, the rope is included in the kit of the commando’s duffel bag as a mandatory attribute, it’s strange that the fur seal didn’t have this simple thing. It’s not anyhow, these are fur seals, not one operation behind their backs, and all these things are written by the blood of their colleagues.
        Unclean here. It looks like the notion of journalists who fanned this moral puzzle and are now shearing coupons. But in fact, there was a banal failure of the operation for absolutely banal reasons - they disguised themselves poorly, smoked cigarettes, laughed in full voice, ran like elephants, rattling bowlers with kettles throughout the district. The latter is especially relevant in terms of when you are trained on simulators with virtual reality, this moment is practically not taken into account. That's the whole bodyaga. This is IMHO.
        1. Dante Alighieri
          Dante Alighieri April 8 2013 18: 49
          0
          Duck rope - this is the last century, it wasn’t a camilpho for such tech guys to use such an ancient thing, but if they had bracelets, like, for example, Vasilyeva, they might have used it.
          In general, I read somewhere that amers have long been using ordinary clamps for such things, as for wires, and they also call them "humane handcuffs".
        2. Uncle
          Uncle April 8 2013 21: 01
          +1
          Quote: aksakal
          Unclean here. It looks like the notion of journalists who fanned this moral puzzle and are now shearing coupons. But actually there was a banal failure of the operation

          Interesting idea. It seems that from failure to concoct victory, from Mr. fashion a bullet.
  2. smel
    smel April 8 2013 06: 58
    0
    The actions of the shepherds delight
  3. TSOOBER
    TSOOBER April 8 2013 07: 01
    +3
    Fighting on our land, defending our country - only in this way can you sleep peacefully!
    1. bask
      bask April 8 2013 07: 38
      +8
      Quote: TSOOBER
      I am on my land, defending my country - this is the only way to sleep peacefully!

      Good morning...
      You can fight for your land both in Africa (((Angola)) and in Cuba and Vietnam. My brother fought for 1.6 years in Afghanistan, in the Airborne Forces. AND THE FIGHTING BUCH AND THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THEY PROTECTED THEIR HOMELAND WAS FOR ALL ((( (all the militants are Afghans))) remember the Russians as brave wars with respect. About amers they don’t say that.
      Russian-Soviet soldiers were PEOPLE.
      amers, not soldiers, but paid animals, piderasts, bestiality and spoilage
      1. Murat 09
        Murat 09 April 8 2013 08: 06
        +1
        Well, about protecting our homeland in Afghanistan, this is a moot point, because Afghanistan was not threatened by the Soviet Union, just the senators from the Politburo allowed the Amers to draw themselves into this war, and it ended with the collapse of the USSR. And yet, Soviet and Afghan government troops killed about a million civilians, and this brought to the USSR the hatred of the Muslim world that Russia is still humbling. And yes, the Mujahideen Afghans respected Soviet soldiers as a brave enemy, unlike the Amers.
        1. lewerlin53rus
          lewerlin53rus April 8 2013 08: 24
          +8
          Quote: Murat 09
          After all, Afghanistan did not threaten the USSR, just the senility from the Politburo allowed the Amers to draw themselves into this war, and it ended with the collapse of the USSR

          Afghanistan did not directly threaten the USSR. There was a threat to establish an American military base there and US plans to put a radar there. Plus, a threat to the development of the drug trade.
          And it was not the war in Afghanistan and the activities of the senile politicians who led to the collapse. The collapse of politics was led by just the same relatively young leaders like Gorbachev with his perestroika and liberalization of consciousness. And then it started: Nemtsov, Yavlinsky, Chubais, Gaidar and others like them.
          1. Murat 09
            Murat 09 April 8 2013 09: 11
            0
            And why there’s no radar there now, because the amers are there, and their bases there now, unless it is better now after that war, maybe it was necessary to invent something smarter and not send troops and kill people and lose your guys there, I have there a neighbor died, I remember the boy was at his funeral in 1986. And about the collapse, Afghanistan became the straw that breaks the back of a camel, without denying the criminal role of humpback and other liberals.
        2. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz April 8 2013 19: 10
          +3
          Quote: Murat 09
          Well, about protecting the homeland in Afghanistan, this is a moot point, because Afghanistan was not threatened by the USSR, just the senility from the Politburo allowed the Amers to draw themselves into this war

          The Union fought in Afghanistan, so as not to fight in Tajikistan. Now Russia is fighting in Tajikistan, so as not to fight at its border. So in Afghanistan, our guys defended their homeland. And they did it well.
        3. antidote
          antidote April 8 2013 20: 43
          +2
          No Vasya, you’re wrong. The entry was justified. Our people wouldn’t come in, amers would go
      2. screw cutter
        screw cutter April 8 2013 11: 00
        +2
        BATTLE BUKH-slip or deliberately? But seriously; we drank there and committed stupid things, and died out of stupidity. I want to let the shepherds notice him? And what kind of games of democracy during a military operation.
  4. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov April 8 2013 07: 08
    +7
    The movie will be about the lack of spirit, about the soldiers who defend their country thousands of kilometers from it. They will show the evil Taliban, but they will not show the truth. Everything will be as usual. The only thing that changes and what my story aims at is to justify the crimes of US soldiers in other countries and in Afghanistan in particular. Any murder of civilians will be presented as necessary measures to save the lives of their own soldiers and will cite this story as an example.
    1. andrejwz
      andrejwz April 8 2013 07: 31
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Everything will be as usual.

      He tells the audience how everything was then. The hall is always full, everyone listens with bated breath. And on stage all this time the yellow labrador DASY lies, in whose name the initial letters of the three dead soldiers, the comrades-in-chief of the foreman Markus Lutrell, who released three Afghan shepherds in peace ...
      The show goes on. This is the main ideology of those who are trying to teach the whole world. Clowns.
  5. fenix57
    fenix57 April 8 2013 07: 17
    +8
    "Poor, poor" seals ", you understand with all the" democratic "soul to the shepherds, and they responded with deceit. Here is an outreach campaign in full manifestation. What else can affect public opinion and mood, views, sow fear of Al-Qaeda, if not the death of "hero-fighters" against terrorism.
    1. andrejwz
      andrejwz April 8 2013 07: 35
      +4
      Quote: fenix57
      you understand with all the "democratic" soul to the shepherds, and they responded with deceit

      And most importantly, the survivor was clearly in favor of leaving the shepherds alive. Pretty boy. True Pease ... th handsome.
    2. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 8 2013 08: 01
      +6
      The United States is reaping the benefits of its education. And this education in the US Armed Forces is worthless. Laughing at the fact of voting. This is the height of insanity for the unit commander. He is commanded by a herd of sheep and not a unit. Slobs, and suckers, not fighters of an elite unit.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel April 8 2013 09: 10
        +1
        Why haven’t they contacted Congress yet on this issue? Well then they would have relieved themselves completely. And the world would see the peacefulness or bloodthirstiness of congressmen (depending on the results of the vote in Congress). The cats didn’t finish. They were not taught this. fool
  6. dirty trick
    dirty trick April 8 2013 07: 31
    +3
    Later, writing the book "Survivor" (Lone Survivor: SEA Team 10), foreman Marcus Lutrel unequivocally condemns his deed and even says that the decision to let go of the shepherds was "the most brainless decision in his life ", And" having prevailed in the vote in that vote, he signed the death sentence to the whole group, "so that fatal decision" will pursue him right up to the grave. "

    idiocy, the commander who has played in democracy is to blame for everything!
  7. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus April 8 2013 07: 41
    +6
    Well, if we ignore the fact that these are American special forces. What should the military have done in hostile territory in carrying out a responsible mission? What did the Soviet scouts do in their time on the same territory in the 80s? Personally, I don’t consider myself entitled to judge such situations, since, fortunately, I didn’t have to make such a choice (and, God forbid, I won’t have to.) But remember Budanov. whom did he kill then? Innocent girl or sniper action movie? Everything can be considered from different points of view. And we will never come to an unambiguous conclusion. I do not condone or blame the Americans for this particular situation. Their entire operation in Afghanistan is a big criminal adventure, the consequences of which will go on hitting the region and the whole world for a long time to come.
    1. lewerlin53rus
      lewerlin53rus April 8 2013 08: 08
      +2
      Justify the minus. I kind of asked questions what If the minus is for Budanov, then I will explain. He is, firstly, a hero, and secondly, the victim of the liberal propaganda machine.
      1. domokl
        domokl April 8 2013 08: 19
        +1
        Quote: lewerlin53rus
        Justify the minus
        Alas, Eugene, we often people just give grades ... Although I also think that the assessment needs to be explained ..
    2. domokl
      domokl April 8 2013 08: 16
      +5
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      What did Soviet intelligence agents do in their time on the same territory in 80's? Personally, I do not consider myself entitled to judge such situations, since, fortunately, I did not have to make such a choice
      But there was no choice to make either ... This is not infantry and military intelligence .. This is special forces ... Any soldier knows that the main thing in carrying out the task is to complete the task ... Everything else is lyrics, conversations for lapping ladies ... The group is unmasked, so the commander is a donkey and must do everything to dissolve, disappear ...
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 April 8 2013 11: 15
        +3
        Yes, even if it was infantry or military intelligence, it does not change anything ... I was completely killed by the very fact of voting, they would fill out ballots and count the votes .... Imagine in 41, near Moscow, the commander is voting to go on the attack or no ... wassat
  8. Alikovo
    Alikovo April 8 2013 08: 00
    0
    the one that survived made an idiotic decision, which guided him.
  9. cerko
    cerko April 8 2013 08: 02
    +1
    it’s such a breakdown of discipline that the commander can’t just not make a decision in a combat situation, he is also trying to transfer part of the responsibility to his unit by voting, I’m calm for Russia!
  10. domokl
    domokl April 8 2013 08: 06
    +1
    What kind of nonsense? Before writing, the author just had to meet and talk with any real fighter or commander of the Special Forces ...
  11. Kolovrat77
    Kolovrat77 April 8 2013 08: 12
    +3
    Something is some kind of nonsense. What kind of cats are so cool. We have any regimental intelligence fighter who knows what to do. And what kind of democracy is in combat intelligence?
  12. cerko
    cerko April 8 2013 08: 22
    +1
    And in general, what are these scammers who blinked a whole pack of sheep, if they behaved so "secretly"
    maybe they were on the way noticed
    1. _Igor_
      _Igor_ April 8 2013 09: 04
      +1
      in all history, this question torments me the most
      It is quite possible that these "scouts" slept through everything and opened fire on the sheep, the mountains, the shepherds, and local people came running from the nearest village to this noise, and only then this whole story was invented, which even if you did not notice serves as an advertisement for the US army ((
  13. 31-RUS
    31-RUS April 8 2013 09: 38
    +2
    It seems to me that it was all wrong there: the "seals" failed the task, big losses, a PR move was invented to justify them, and in America itself there is also a well-paid show. That's all.
    1. piter-tank
      piter-tank April 8 2013 10: 43
      0
      For some reason, I tend to agree with you. It is not clear how the four SPN fighters were going to capture the leader, guarded by Taliban special forces. And pstukhov, indeed, could be tied up before the end of the operation.
  14. 31-RUS
    31-RUS April 8 2013 09: 43
    0
    I am convinced that it was the other way round: they were discovered, they caused reinforcements, heavy losses to justify the failure of the operation, and this PR move was invented.
  15. fenix57
    fenix57 April 8 2013 09: 46
    +1
    Quote: Sirocco
    He is commanded by a herd of sheep and not a unit. Slobs, and suckers, not fighters of an elite unit.

    When a shepherd with a flock, you need to be decisive - to protect this very from wolves. He does not fit the role of a shepherd. hi
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 8 2013 11: 44
      0
      You are right, most likely these "cats" are from the same herd. And it would not hurt to rename them. But what name suits them now?
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 April 8 2013 15: 35
        0
        Quote: Sirocco
        And to rename them would not hurt. Just what name is right for them now?

        Pissed off!
  16. fenix57
    fenix57 April 8 2013 09: 52
    0
    Quote: _Doberman_
    Democracy is not doing well

    And even more so in the army. Well, the script of the film is probably as follows: four "hero-seals" were attacked by angry Afghans in the amount of one hundred people, grazing three sheep ...
  17. Averias
    Averias April 8 2013 10: 16
    +2
    On the one hand - humanism, the actions of a soldier should cause admiration and so on. Only one BUT, because of him, the rest and those who rushed to help were killed. We believe there are four of them, one showed "sanity". This means that it is 1 to 3. If these figures are translated to the entire United States, then there are very few "sane" at all, and even "sanity" in this form, then you will not envy America. But in reality, but in reality it is a war, and they are special forces. What kind of vote, there is a task to be completed. What are the discussions? What kind of special forces is this. I'm not saying that it was necessary to kill, but after all, it was possible to cut it down, tie it up and so on. How to connect with nothing? What a delirium. Doubting special forces are corpses.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas April 8 2013 12: 56
      -2
      At the time of the decision, the likelihood of what happened later was not obvious to them. Rather, they believed that they have a chance to complete the task without killing the shepherds. They miscalculated. Is it possible to blame them for this? Here this decision has been subjected to obstruction more than once, but damn, which of the commentators will be able to kill an unarmed person who accidentally finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time? To make that decision is easy to kill, being on the rostrum of the Coliseum, and to execute the verdict yourself? And then live with that? Those four at the time of the decision could only speculate about the consequences, but hoped to avoid them. That was their moral right.
      1. Averias
        Averias April 8 2013 17: 03
        0
        Did I say kill?
  18. screw cutter
    screw cutter April 8 2013 11: 26
    +1
    Another rescue of Private Ryan, Americans are kind and fluffy, they can't stand the sight of blood and therefore they bomb from afar. For the three screwed up "seals" (only in quotes, although maybe they have all the seals there) put another 16 and equipment? "And the dawns here are quiet" looked.
  19. Strashila
    Strashila April 8 2013 11: 48
    0
    And the situation ... that the shepherds discovered Amers and managed to fade from them it is possible to consider the same thing ... only the valiant highly professional bearers of democracy are not able to admit that they were surrounded by ordinary shepherds.
  20. Genoezec
    Genoezec April 8 2013 15: 06
    0
    If all these fur seals survived, I would see how much later they would kill the locals ... Well done shepherds!
  21. VadimSt
    VadimSt April 8 2013 15: 39
    0
    It seems to me that we are not talking about "ours" and "not ours", to which some focus their attention, but about the contradictions between the professional and moral sides, when making a decision.
    Maybe this is inhuman, but the scouts have their own laws, the violation of which will probably lead not only to the death of the group and most importantly - failure to fulfill the task. It is immoral, yes, but the lesser of the two evils is chosen, for miscalculation and failure to complete a task can cost hundreds and thousands of lives.
    And we are not talking about democracy, when making a decision - the principle of one-man command in the army has not been canceled. For a good commander, especially in intelligence, the saying - "one head is good, and two is better" is not an empty phrase.
  22. Captain45
    Captain45 April 8 2013 15: 47
    +1
    No, guys, whatever you want, but I got a lot of pleasure reading the article. Honestly, I ate about 15 minutes over such a moron. And they also say that Zadornov is wrong when he says, “Well, stupid! Bliiin, stupid people. These are the fruits of Western democracy and liberalism. Do you want our Russian-Russian army to be like this? I personally do not. "The order of the commander is the law for the subordinate. The order must be carried out unquestioningly, exactly and on time." (Disciplinary Charter of the USSR Armed Forces) These "kittens" or "seals" had an order to conduct reconnaissance, and they arranged elections to Congress. I wonder where the ballot box is. Did you take the film for the bulletins? And I present the film as follows: there is a "kitten" with a torn off leg. Nearby are his courageous comrades and they ask him, Bill, are you okay? And Bill bravely says, "Hey, guys. Tell your mom and the President that I died for the ideals of democracy. Then the others start yelling, is there a plan, what to do, we need to get our asses out. And then one says, I have a plan, I know what to do. All that Joe, speak quickly. And Joe says, we need to call the turntables, but for now let's smoke my plan. Well, something in this spirit will be filmed, judging by the American action films I have seen.
    1. zambo
      zambo April 8 2013 16: 02
      0
      Captain45, nevertheless, specify (so, for fun) - over this moronity you ate for 15 minutes or neighing !?
      And on the topic - I completely agree with you.
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 April 8 2013 16: 52
        0
        RZHAL, to blame, could not hit the keys with laughter.
  23. Captain45
    Captain45 April 8 2013 16: 03
    +1
    In general, I am tormented by vague doubts, as one movie hero said, they put everyone in, but this Marcus remained alive. It's strange, gentlemen. In a war, his "Smersh" would quickly turn it inside out with fur, how did it happen-They put everyone in, they shot down the turntable, and he Answer the question.
    1. Black
      Black April 8 2013 18: 40
      0
      I don’t believe a single word !! Democratic nonsense! Seals are professionals! -What can be the vote, and as a rule, do not leave witnesses it was and is unshakable. The commander did not have the right either to a "referendum" or to downright universal tenderness. yet another nonsense !!!!
  24. igordok
    igordok April 8 2013 18: 57
    0
    foreman Marcus Lutrel

    Chief is this rank or position? In America, in my opinion, there is neither one nor the other. The author is confusing something. I think the story is far-fetched. And invented as a psychological test. For example, as "Buridan's donkey".
  25. gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz April 8 2013 19: 31
    0
    Some kind of shapito. It is unlikely that the "seals" would ponder on the topic: fill up or let go. Any reconnaissance group of any country would cheat without thinking. Although the Slavs, if possible, simply tied b. And about a rope that was not in the mountains. Moreover, the task: to fill up or capture. And if you captivate, then what to knit? Forgotten rope? Maybe there was nothing to fill up with?
    Thoughts about a possible trial are far-fetched. When in the United States tried special? Postanova for the media. Cover up some losses.
  26. Ruslan_F38
    Ruslan_F38 April 8 2013 20: 32
    0
    Quote: aksakal
    Quote: domokl
    .And here, the complete professional stupidity of the Americans really struck ... Where they were taught interestingly..On teachers to give medals to the Afghan opposition for such training ...
    “She was especially killed because they didn’t guess to undress and tie, but tightly.” About four years ago I read the memoirs of a Russian commando who faced the exact same choice whether to kill an unarmed kid or not - so he connected him with this business. By the way, the rope is included in the kit of the commando’s duffel bag as a mandatory attribute, it’s strange that the fur seal didn’t have this simple thing. It’s not anyhow, these are fur seals, not one operation behind their backs, and all these things are written by the blood of their colleagues.
    Unclean here. It looks like the notion of journalists who fanned this moral puzzle and are now shearing coupons. But in fact, there was a banal failure of the operation for absolutely banal reasons - they disguised themselves poorly, smoked cigarettes, laughed in full voice, ran like elephants, rattling bowlers with kettles throughout the district. The latter is especially relevant in terms of when you are trained on simulators with virtual reality, this moment is practically not taken into account. That's the whole bodyaga. This is IMHO.
    And really - well, why didn’t they even change their place when they let the shepherds go, didn’t think of a tie? In general, 19 dead amers is a good result - so many lives of innocent people saved! And here's another question, and who knows how it was at all? Why did he stay alive after a fight with such a large enemy? Most likely he gave up, called for support at gunpoint, and then was released - a typical Amer act, betrayal in their blood.
  27. ABV
    ABV April 8 2013 23: 38
    0
    It looks very much like the imagination of the only survivor .... they messed up somewhere, so he invented a story about humanity .... but he himself might not, and the command suggested that the failure of the operation be brightened up ... you won’t check his loss ....
    it's like a story about 28 Panfilov heroes, when everyone died, but the words of political instructor Klochkov "Russia is great, and there is no place to retreat" --- somehow cunningly remained in history (who passed them on, if all died is not known) ...
  28. razved
    razved April 9 2013 23: 13
    0
    the quotes here are presented as complete stupid people ...