'Rafale's finest hour has passed': Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets

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'Rafale's finest hour has passed': Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets

Indonesia's pricey $8,1 billion order for 42 Rafale fighters from France has been thrown into serious doubt after the jet's disastrous debut in recent fighting between India and Pakistan. aviation.

The purchase of the aircraft has been suspended. The contract could be scuppered by alarming allegations of their poor performance in recent military operations. The Rafale's finest hour has passed

- says the publication Galaxia Militar.



We are talking about Islamabad’s claims, partially confirmed by relevant footage, about the defeat of French-origin fighters by PL-15E long-range air-to-air missiles launched from the J-10C (missiles, as well as their carriers, were purchased from China). According to local sources, in solidarity with Pakistani pilots, Chinese pilots painted symbols of the aircraft that Islamabad claims were shot down on their J-10C aircraft - 3 Rafale, one Su-30MKI and MiG-21, and one Heron UAV:

It is a symbol of unbreakable brotherhood and a clear warning to opponents.




As Galaxia Militar notes, the Rafale's claims of failure have raised concerns among Indonesia's top defense planners. While the claims remain largely unverified, they have prompted the Defense Ministry to "quietly begin testing the Rafale's operational reliability."

With the first batch of Rafales scheduled to be delivered in early 2026, officials in Jakarta now face a delicate but important decision: whether to move forward, pause, or change course.

- explained in the publication.



The deal signed in 2022 to acquire Rafale jets equipped with advanced radars and weapons systems was meant to provide a leap forward for the country in modernising its air force.

But news Pakistan's shooting down of three Rafales in a recent clash with India has undermined the jet's combat reputation

- the author writes.

New Delhi has yet to officially confirm or deny the losses, but India's Air Marshal A.K. Bharti said "we are in a state of war, combat losses are expected." France's Dassault Aviation, the manufacturer of the Rafale, has also remained silent. But sources say Paris is conducting its own investigation, examining radar records, telemetry and imagery to determine the veracity of the reports.

In Jakarta, the news did not go unnoticed.

- declares the author.

As Dave Laksono, a member of Indonesia's defence commission, explained, the reports cannot be ignored, they need to be verified and may require a "legitimate and constructive" reassessment, especially given that "the Rafale's battlefield credentials have long been a key selling point for its purchase."



The Rafale has enjoyed a stellar reputation in the global market so far. It is widely considered to be one of the most balanced 4,5 generation fighters, offering excellent maneuverability, EW and striking power

- says the publication.

However, as the author explains, the Rafale's combat experience in Libya, Mali and Syria was largely limited to ground-attack missions in asymmetric warfare against technologically inferior opponents. But the aircraft did not engage in combat against equal foes:

If the losses are confirmed, it would be a serious blow to France.


Shares in jet maker Dassault fell nearly 10% in the five days following news of the fighter jets being shot down, and analysts are now warning that potential buyers may begin to reconsider their purchasing strategies.

We cannot afford to buy a system that works well only on paper. We need fighting authority, not promises.

- noted a source in the Indonesian Air Force.

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  1. + 11
    17 May 2025 06: 10
    Rafale's combat experience in Libya, Mali and Syria has been largely limited to ground-attack missions in asymmetric warfare against technologically inferior opponents
    Fighting with guys in slippers armed with bows is a real Honor and Dignity, a Thunderstorm for the enemy. Now that's Victory.. Although the guys in slippers are now ready to shoot down Rafales in droves. Macron, why are you afraid to supply them to the hoholland? Also image and reputation risks? While Macron and Starmer are licking their lips, Europe is falling apart.. And that's good..
    1. +9
      17 May 2025 06: 15
      Quote: Sedov
      Macron, why are you afraid to supply them to the Ukraine?
      The toy is expensive, but "the chieftain has no gold reserves" (c)
      1. +1
        17 May 2025 15: 27
        "Mr. Ataman has no gold reserves." How mute? Eat! Troshichki... just for yourself.
  2. +9
    17 May 2025 06: 14
    3 Rafales, one Su-30MKI and one MiG-21 each

    MiG-29, not MiG-21. The photo clearly does not show a silhouette of a MiG-21. The "Military Observer" telegram channel writes that the Su-30MKI was mistakenly identified by its engine and that it is the engine of the French Mirage. The Indians use Mirages as attack aircraft. Although why they used the MiG-29 is a question.
    In solidarity with Pakistani pilots, Chinese pilots

    Maybe it was the Chinese who shot them down?
    1. +1
      17 May 2025 13: 08
      Quote: smart fellow
      that the Su-30MKI was mistakenly identified by its engine
      How could they identify anything when the planes did not cross the border? Did the Indians let the Pak experts into their territory and let them near the supposed crash sites?
      1. +1
        17 May 2025 15: 09
        Regarding the photos, see the comment below. I only got it wrong: not "Military Observer", but "Military Informant". True, the fact that this is a Pakistani Mirage is probably an Indian invention, since they wrote that the planes from both sides did not cross the border.
        1. +1
          17 May 2025 20: 34
          Quote: smart fellow
          For photos, see comment below.
          From photographs taken where? Let's say an Indian plane was shot down, it did not cross the border - it fell on Indian territory. Pakistanis got into Indian territory and photographed the crash site? The Indians themselves do not work at the crash site?
          1. +3
            18 May 2025 02: 41
            The Indians took the photos. That's obvious to me.
            1. 0
              18 May 2025 12: 12
              Quote: smart fellow
              The Indians took the photos. That's obvious to me.
              In my opinion, no. Why would they do that?
              1. -1
                18 May 2025 13: 11
                To get a lot of money. From packs. Capitalism, what's not clear?
  3. + 10
    17 May 2025 06: 33
    And did this piece of iron ever have its "finest hour"? Or was it only in the fevered imagination of the French posters?
    Rafale's finest hour has passed
    - says the publication Galaxia Militar.
    1. +1
      17 May 2025 07: 06
      Quote: Elijah
      And did this piece of iron ever have its "finest hour"? Or was it only in the fevered imagination of the French posters?

      The posters have become a bit "starry-eyed", it's always useful to poke them in the... But let them not raise the price. )))
    2. +2
      17 May 2025 15: 26
      There was even a rant on the Rafale and Gripen on this forum, and I was mercilessly downvoted when I said that the same Eurofighter was much better.
      1. -3
        18 May 2025 01: 14
        Quote: Totor5
        I was mercilessly downvoted when I said that the same Eurofighter is much better.

        You were right to downvote. And pardon me, if a concrete slab falls on an F-22 Raptor, then you can also write such articles "about the suspension of Rafale purchases" (which is, of course, nonsense)? Rafales were hit by missiles, that's all, you don't need to know anything else to give your expert opinion. And there are already enough nuances to understand that Rafale, Tefal, Sukhoi, or Raptor, in that situation, their combat qualities and systems have nothing to do with it.
        1. 0
          18 May 2025 08: 05
          F22 is the same crap. It doesn't fly everywhere in America now either because it crashes periodically.
          Second - did I write somewhere that the Rafale is crap because it was shot down? No. I only wrote that this plane (for wild Hindu money) doesn't have anything special... except that it's a carrier-based one. And that the Eurofighter is better. And the F15 is even better. But some people like to harp on the French uniforms and Hebrew inscriptions.
          1. +1
            18 May 2025 12: 17
            Quote: karabas-barabas
            Pardon me if a concrete slab falls on the F-22 Raptor.

            Did a concrete slab fall on the Rafale? Or were they shot down in an air battle?

            Quote: karabas-barabas
            "about the suspension of Rafale purchases" (which is of course nonsense)


            Well, why nonsense? This is a completely predictable outcome. You probably don't know, but the issue here is not so much the failure of the Rafale compared to how it was advertised. And not even the exorbitant price of the machine. The fact is that Dassault is not able to produce more than 12-15 machines per year. And now the French Air Force and foreign customers have so many orders that in the next 5-7 years they need to produce 20-21. At the same time, the official time lag from the conclusion of the contract to the delivery of the first machines in the case of Rafales is three years.

            The French have been blatantly lying about the Rafales. Everyone lies, there is no argument there, but the French have decided that they can do anything. Lie about delivery dates, about price, about performance characteristics, even promise to transfer technologies, and then renege on the promise.
            Therefore, the refusal to purchase Rafales is quite plausible.
            Moreover, Indonesia has China nearby, which has newer and less expensive models, and which is ready, as with Pakistan, to create joint production and aircraft. In addition, it also has long-range missiles.


            Quote: karabas-barabas
            And there are already so many nuances known that it is clear that Rafale, Tefal, Sukhoi, or Raptor, in that situation, their combat qualities and systems have nothing to do with it.


            What does it have to do with it then? Apple's capitalization? Or Spain's GDP? The only thing that has to do with a weapon system is the outcome of the battle. If you are promised an absolute technical advantage on the battlefield, but are given a loser piece of crap for the price of two enemy planes, which is knocked out with a score of three-nil, then something is wrong with your purchases of combat aircraft. Don't you think so? Of course, the French will talk about the clumsy Indians who "don't know how." But their Ukrainian Armed Forces are also clumsy, when they lost their self-propelled guns and wheeled tanks.
            1. 0
              19 May 2025 21: 30
              Write comments on topics in which you understand something. I have no desire to participate with you in your hurray-patriotic frenzy. In general, think and believe in what you want.
        2. 0
          18 May 2025 11: 59
          Quote: karabas-barabas
          Pardon me if a concrete slab falls on the F-22 Raptor.

          Did a concrete slab fall on the Rafale? Or were they shot down in an air battle?
          1. 0
            19 May 2025 21: 28
            Quote: abc_alex
            Did a concrete slab fall on the Rafale? Or were they shot down in an air battle?

            Were they shot down in an air battle? I described above an approximate situation of how they were shot down.
      2. 0
        18 May 2025 13: 12
        Quote: Totor5
        There was even a rant on the Rafale and Gripen on this forum, and I was mercilessly downvoted when I said that the same Eurofighter was much better.

        What, Eurofighter showed his class somewhere? So share)
        1. 0
          18 May 2025 15: 45
          It has been used in all recent Euro NATO wars and has shown itself to be quite good. Showing class is like that? Eurofighter and Typhoon are the whales of Euro NATO, which they use everywhere.
    3. +2
      17 May 2025 16: 33
      Quote: Elijah
      Did this piece of iron ever have its "finest hour"?

      The Mirage 2000 had its finest hour.
      Rafal was promoted as an advanced successor.
      1. 0
        17 May 2025 23: 31
        Rather, Mirage III had its finest hour.
    4. +1
      18 May 2025 01: 09
      Quote: Elijah
      And did this piece of iron ever have its "finest hour"? Or was it only in the fevered imagination of the French posters?

      It's horrifying how the site has degraded, how easy it is to collect likes with all sorts of arrogant, stupid comments. Although the articles are no better either.
  4. + 21
    17 May 2025 06: 37
    one Su-30MKI each


    Upon further detailed examination of the wreckage, the Su-30MKI turned out to be a Mirage. And a Pakistani one at that.

    1. +5
      17 May 2025 08: 10
      An old Soviet joke from the series "Armenian Radio: Questions and Answers".

      We are asked: "Is it true that Petrosyan won a million dollars at roulette in Monte Carlo?"
      We answer. Not Petrosyan, but Ovanesyan, and not in Monte Carlo, but in Sochi, and not in roulette, but in preference, and not a million dollars, but a thousand rubles, and did not win, but lost. And so it is all true.
      lol
    2. +1
      17 May 2025 16: 38
      There is another one on the Military Informant
      note, the first in the search for "Su-30MKI".

      Claimed to be debris from an Indian Su-30MKI that was shot down on May 7 over Jammu and Kashmir.

      Among the debris, one can see the characteristic silhouette of an AL-31F series engine.
      Previously, footage (https://t.me/milinfolive/147772) was published showing fragments of the K-36DM ejection seat.

      Military Informant (https://t.me/milinfolive)
      1. +1
        17 May 2025 17: 54
        As Stirlitz said, the last thing is remembered. smile
  5. + 13
    17 May 2025 06: 39
    It seems to me that this is more a mistake on the part of the operation's leaders than the obvious incompetence of the Rafale.
    1. +2
      17 May 2025 07: 53
      Quote: Graz
      It seems to me that this is more a mistake on the part of the operation's leaders than the obvious incompetence of the Rafale.

      One battle is nothing. So what if they shot down a Rafale? Is the aircraft bad or is the pilot poorly trained? We must take into account all the factors that influenced the course of the battle. So, I repeat, one battle is nothing.
      1. +6
        17 May 2025 12: 46
        Quote: Krasnoyarsk
        One battle is nothing. So what if they shot down a Rafale?

        In one day, India lost 5% to 10% of its fleet of French aircraft, which it had been relying on to plan the conflict. It was the losses of French aircraft to Chinese weapons that made it pointless or dangerous for Modi to continue the conflict. The fact that Chinese aircraft weapons were able to outperform Western ones in real combat changed the global balance of power.
  6. +8
    17 May 2025 06: 52
    Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets
    Now that's some great news!
    1. 0
      17 May 2025 09: 00
      Quote: Dutchman Michel
      Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets
      Now that's some great news!
      Will they really switch to MiGs and Sukhois? laughing
      1. +2
        17 May 2025 14: 06
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        Quote: Dutchman Michel
        Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets
        Now that's some great news!
        Will they really switch to MiGs and Sukhois? laughing

        Based on their assertion that:
        "We cannot afford to buy a system that works well only on paper. We need fighting authority, and not the distribution of promises"
        - noted a source in the Indonesian Air Force.

        Today, the combat authority of the SU-35S is higher than that of any other 4++ generation aircraft. And its price is lower than that of the Rafale, and it is simpler and more technologically advanced than the French one. Moreover, the Prime Minister of Indonesia recently visited us. Did they really not say a word about military-technical cooperation with the VVP? It is hard to believe. And the Indians praise and modernize the SU-30MKI and never cease to rejoice at the modernization resource embedded in them.
        1. 0
          19 May 2025 07: 43
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Quote: Dutchman Michel
          Indonesia suspends purchase of French fighter jets
          Now that's some great news!
          Will they really switch to MiGs and Sukhois? laughing

          Based on their assertion that:
          "We cannot afford to buy a system that works well only on paper. We need fighting authority, and not the distribution of promises"
          - noted a source in the Indonesian Air Force.

          Today, the combat authority of the SU-35S is higher than that of any other 4++ generation aircraft. And its price is lower than that of the Rafale, and it is simpler and more technologically advanced than the French one. Moreover, the Prime Minister of Indonesia recently visited us. Did they really not say a word about military-technical cooperation with the VVP? It is hard to believe. And the Indians praise and modernize the SU-30MKI and never cease to rejoice at the modernization resource embedded in them.

          They won't go to us or to the Chinese, because the US is putting pressure on them with sanctions for buying weapons from Russia
      2. +3
        17 May 2025 18: 17
        Unlikely. They'll rather go to the Chinese.
        1. -1
          19 May 2025 13: 07
          Quote: Grencer81
          Unlikely. They'll rather go to the Chinese.
          Don't take this as a reproach - how many smileys do you need to put in order for sarcasm to be understood?
          1. 0
            19 May 2025 13: 49
            The more the better, Your Excellency!!!
      3. 0
        17 May 2025 18: 35
        They will most likely switch to Chinese models.
  7. +7
    17 May 2025 07: 11
    There has never been any "finest hour" for any RAFAL.
    The MiG aircraft had one.
    The Su-23 aircraft had, have and will have their finest hour.
    And the French are just advertisers of their junk.
    Hoarders of unwanted planes.
    1. +6
      17 May 2025 08: 38
      The MiG aircraft had one.

      And what a one. Korea and Vietnam gave the star-spangled pilots such a slap in the face that they were afraid to even take off.
  8. + 10
    17 May 2025 07: 42
    With proper planning and launching of missiles "from an ambush", absolutely any type of aircraft could be shot down. Two years ago, Banderites shot down a Su-35, a Su-34 it was covering, and two Mi-8 RAVs in a matter of minutes. So the performance characteristics of the aircraft are secondary in this case.
    1. +1
      17 May 2025 14: 13
      Quote from: spyder100
      So the performance characteristics of the equipment are secondary in this case.

      Well, don't say that! But the fact that the army's "eyes and ears" missed the ambush is a matter for a major investigation. If space were like the Yankees', then the Patriots' advance would have been tracked in a timely manner... But there is no case for NO: with a bare ass for hedgehogs, as in the years of the civil war, with bare enthusiasm, you can't fight much these days. For successful combat operations, reliable comprehensive support is needed. Intelligence is one of the types of COMBAT support for troops and naval forces. So, excuse me: "no bananas!" am
    2. 0
      17 May 2025 22: 26
      So the performance characteristics of the equipment are secondary in this case.

      that's right: only the combat tactics for certain means of destruction are important
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. 0
    17 May 2025 09: 00
    The Rafale's combat experience in Libya, Mali and Syria has been largely limited to ground-attack missions in asymmetric warfare against technologically inferior opponents. But the aircraft has not seen action against equal foes.

    "The Keen Eye" seems to have opened that very eye...
  11. 0
    17 May 2025 10: 10
    They certainly won’t refuse if the kickback amount is increased.
  12. 0
    17 May 2025 10: 15
    In general, as was said, "Rafale" is a very powerful advertisement and a crazy price, but in reality, it is the most ordinary plane of the 4+ generation. Miracles do not happen - an ordinary glider + an ordinary engine - where does a super airplane come from?)))
    1. +1
      17 May 2025 15: 29
      The main advantage of the Rafal is that it is a deck-based boat. And the choice of deck-based boats is not great.
      1. -4
        17 May 2025 16: 00
        Considering how many fleets have aircraft carriers, the choice of carriers is simply the widest. USA, China, Russia and France - buy whichever you want. In general, it is simply excellent anti-advertisement for Western technology. In India, another lost aircraft was identified by its engine - "Mirage". Now two French - that's for sure. Three F-16s were lost in Ukraine, here talk of technical malfunctions "will not work".
        1. +1
          17 May 2025 17: 30
          There is no new deck ship in Russia, and even the Indians don’t need the old stuff.
          America doesn't sell the F35 to everyone, and not everyone needs it because it has its own nuances - essentially it's an F16 with stealth technology, and not everyone needs it. Of course, there is the F18... but it's like buying an F16 - not the same show-off.
          China... hmmm... it's like the Baltics would buy weapons from us. In addition, the Chinese are tied to us in terms of technology, such as engines, for example.
          France offers a modern deck boat for those who do not want to get on an American or Chinese stringer.
          P.S. And it wasn't me who downvoted you.
          1. -3
            17 May 2025 20: 30
            Russia has a carrier-based aircraft - MiG-29K, production can be restored, it is possible to marine the MiG-35. The F-35 is not sold, because there are no people willing to buy this hemorrhoid, especially in the carrier-based version. The Chinese can sell it, after this war, I think there will be people willing. So, toad-eaters, you are not the only ones in this garden and not the main ones. I don't really care about the minuses)))
            1. +1
              18 May 2025 08: 01
              Nobody needs this ancient and small MiG29, not even us. And the Indians certainly don't need it for their newest aircraft carrier for wild billions. Especially since they already have it and they are unhappy with it because the MiG29 is initially a lightweight hat without a load and radius.
              1. -1
                18 May 2025 10: 39
                So "Rafale" is needed, for crazy money?))) Excellent logic))) When the Indians bought "Gorshkov" together with MiG-29, did they understand what they were buying and why? And "Vikrant" was designed for MiG-29 - why? How many MiG-29s were lost in air battles with PAKs? And how many BC and how far will "Rafale" carry, without catapult launch? I strongly doubt that it will be much more than MiG-29.
                1. +1
                  18 May 2025 15: 36
                  Rafale is not the best aircraft, but it is balanced. Much better than MIG29 - that is obvious. Better electronics, load capacity, radius, modern types of weapons.
                  MIG29 is a fighter, and Rafale is versatile and much more attack-oriented than MIG29. And apart from the unremarkable MIG29kub and the ancient Su33, we have nothing to offer the Indian Navy.
                  1. -2
                    18 May 2025 17: 26
                    We can offer a sea-modified MiG-35, if there are people willing to finance this process. As for the obvious advantages of the "Rafale" - I have only seen one lying broken on the ground. I have not noticed any others yet.
                    1. 0
                      18 May 2025 22: 00
                      And you haven't seen the Su35 on the ground? And what - is it a shitty plane?
                      MiG-29s are generally being delivered to Ukraine in droves from Poland.
                      1. -1
                        18 May 2025 22: 31
                        And where did you see the Rafales?
              2. 0
                19 May 2025 23: 38
                Quote: Totor5
                because the Mig29 is initially a light hat without load and radius.

                when taking off from a ski jump, the Rafale will also be without load and radius
                1. -1
                  20 May 2025 16: 13
                  Rafale M is launched from a catapult.
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BZ-FOGcG5o
  13. +3
    17 May 2025 10: 17
    "Rafale" is a serious aircraft, in serious hands and with proper use... India did not take the combat training of its pilots very seriously, for which it paid with both its image and combat equipment... And Pakistan, it seems, has passed off wishful thinking as reality... Only a detailed analysis, from the outside, of air battles can dot all the "i's"...
    1. 0
      17 May 2025 22: 28
      India has not taken the combat training of its pilots very seriously,

      It's more likely that the French didn't share with the Indians the tactics of using Rafales in aerial combat...
      1. -1
        17 May 2025 23: 42
        Where could the French develop tactics? On a computer?
  14. +2
    17 May 2025 11: 51
    This is good news, now the world will have a more realistic attitude towards Western junk at exorbitant prices.
    1. 0
      17 May 2025 20: 14
      forester, in the world, any "junk", especially military, is treated in full "accordance" with the size of one's own wallet, "wants" and the expected "bonuses" from the seller of this "junk" to the potential buyer....
  15. 0
    17 May 2025 13: 42
    Oh, I hope I don't scare him. Such good news.
  16. 0
    17 May 2025 15: 18
    And how long did they bargain and chose not the Russian, but the French one. Although I think for pilots in slippers even the Rafale is too good. They probably danced in the pilot's cabin
    1. 0
      17 May 2025 20: 19
      Lecter, the French "lamb in paper" turned out to be "fatter" than the Russian.... That's the whole "trading choice"... Officials, in essence, are the same everywhere: not to forget your beloved self in the bustle of negotiations...
  17. 0
    17 May 2025 15: 29
    When the Indians declassify the information, then it will be possible to talk about something.
  18. -1
    17 May 2025 15: 55
    With the Indian approach to the Air Force, it will turn out like this....There is a wonderful example of neighbors - China. They both started with Su30MK. The Indians even had a more progressive MKI. As a result, China localized the Su30 and modernized it to the level of CM2, created on the basis of AL31-J10... and created their 31th generation on A5. And compare the path in aviation of the Indians. Instead of buying Rafale, it was necessary to work on arguing the park of Su30Mki to the level of Su30CM2 and Su35S.
    1. 0
      17 May 2025 20: 28
      Zaurbek, in order to engage in aviation "like adults" - you need a "school", which, in India, does not exist, with the addition of the word "actually" ... And China has created a specific aviation "school" through cool copying of everything and everyone with the "purchase" of aviation and space "brains" from all over the world ... And, it seems that they are starting to get something ... And if they "get" to the technological process of creating aviation turbines - they will be ahead of the entire Planet
      1. -1
        17 May 2025 22: 05
        That's what I'm talking about...there's the example of China (a successful one). And look at the Indians' vacillations...they bought those bags at a discount when the Russian Federation was weak.
    2. +1
      17 May 2025 22: 30
      Instead of buying Rafale, it was necessary to work on bringing the Su-30M fleet up to the level of Su-30SM2 and Su-35S.

      They have kickbacks, just like us - in first place, and everything else is secondary
      1. +1
        18 May 2025 07: 36
        Therefore, communists develop better, unless there is no possibility to print €$
    3. 0
      19 May 2025 23: 41
      and the Indians should have also made AWACS and SAR based on business jets. And not dance with elephants. However, we also slander that instead of the new AWACS there will be wooden crafts
      1. -1
        20 May 2025 08: 30
        Well, the Indians seem to be up to something with Israel regarding AWACS.
        I agree that no matter how powerful a fighter's radar is, someone has to control it.
  19. +2
    19 May 2025 18: 17
    Quote: Sedov
    Fighting with guys in slippers, armed with bows - this is straight up Honor and Dignity, a Thunderstorm for the enemy. Now that's Victory.

    We also have crowds of the same generals with hero stars “for Syria”.