On the rejection of the M10 Booker: the machine turned out to be really heavy

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On the rejection of the M10 Booker: the machine turned out to be really heavy

Donald Trump and his team continue to surprise. First, they announced purges in the bureaucracy, cutting all unjustified expenses like the infamous USAID, introducing gigantic duties on goods from other countries. Now it's the army's turn - according to the new military administration, it is extremely outdated and requires large-scale reforms, including the experience of the special military operation in Ukraine.

However, these reforms concern not only organizational and staffing issues and systems of communication and command and control of troops, but also the material part in the form of military equipment. Thus, with a light hand, the US refuses to purchase (when the current contracts end) Humvees and JLTV A2 vehicles, the AMPV family (replacement of the M113 armored personnel carrier), modernized wheeled Strykers and robotic RCV platforms.



That is, they cut off literally everything except the development of a new infantry fighting vehicle and the already well-known version of the deepest modernization of the Abrams under the index M1E3. But, perhaps, the greatest resonance was caused by the refusal of further deliveries of the light tank (although it is not customary to call it that in the USA) The M10 "Booker" is a product for which hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on the development and production of the first batch.

The main thing is that it's heavy


Generally speaking, the defense officials have rolled out a whole list of complaints about it, in addition to the high price, threateningly describing it as a monstrous inertia, within the framework of which no one wants to make any changes to the design of the vehicle being designed. These issues, for example, include reproaches about the refusal to robotize the Booker with autonomous or remote control and the use of JTRS communications equipment.

However, the greatest amount of "hate", as they say nowadays, was directed at the Booker's weight - almost 40 tons. In this regard, officials from the Trump administration directly stated: initially, we needed an airborne vehicle for airborne units, but in the end, due to the unwillingness to make adjustments to the project, we received the M10, which cannot be dropped from the air, and can only be transported by C-17 aircraft.


Two Bookers, ready for transport by plane. It was recently announced that the rules for transporting these machines have been changed and now only one at a time can be transported on C-17 aircraft. However, the restriction is purely administrative.

The question is, of course, not without meaning. At least because the MPF program initiated in 2013 to create a light combat vehicle for fire support for paratroopers (to replace the defunct Sheridan) did initially provide for significant weight restrictions and the possibility of airborne landings. Only later did they officially decide to abandon this - and this is generally understandable.

Firstly, because, observing these conditions, it is simply impossible to provide a combat vehicle with powerful armor protection "straight out of the box", that is, without the need to hang additional modules and so on. Secondly, the possibility of airborne assault by machine gun imposes major restrictions on the dimensions of the vehicle, which negatively affects ergonomics and combat characteristics. Thirdly, the operations themselves with airborne assault are events, the need for which in the current conditions raises some doubts.

It is unclear why we should return to the stage we have already passed. And even more so, to mold a technique that is severely limited in all its capabilities for the sake of its landing, which will most likely never happen because the transport aircraft is unlikely to fly to the required point on enemy territory due to the activity DefenseTherefore, these complaints can hardly be considered as the main ones today - "Booker" does not go beyond the bounds of reason in this regard.

But there is a problem with its use on the ground. It was voiced in Western media rather dryly: 8 out of 11 bridges in Fort Campbell (one of the military bases where the Bookers are supposed to arrive) cannot support the weight of the vehicle. That is, it seems insignificant - the M10 weighs a lot, so the infrastructure needs to be changed in any case. But, if we talk in general, this circumstance clearly demonstrates one fact - you won't get far with it in combat conditions.

In other words, not every bridge can withstand it - literally. Even if we do not take into account Eastern Europe, in the countries of Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia the share of bridges that are much inferior in their load-bearing capacity to the mass of the "Booker" can reach 50% of the total number. That is, like the main battle tank, the M10 may face the same limitations as, for example, the "Abrams" - the "Booker" is not capable of overcoming water obstacles by swimming, so the only way out, if the river is too deep, is to build specialized crossings with sufficient load-bearing capacity.


And this does not even take into account the cross-country ability of the M10, which for a vehicle of such weight will in any case be relatively low (by the way, it will also have to be towed by heavy ARVs like the M88). Thus, an interesting situation is emerging: you have infantry brigade groups, the main advantage of which is the highest mobility not only in terms of transfer outside the country, but also in specific areas of the front. However, the "Booker" assigned to them will greatly limit it.

In other words, the current situation can be characterized as follows: there is a "light tank" that is protected only from small-caliber gun shells and, if there is an APS or DZ, from cumulative weapons. It is also armed worse than the main battle tank. At the same time, it can often be used only in places where the heavy Abrams can be used. But at the same time, the Booker cannot be used everywhere where the Abrams cannot be used. Such is the pun.

Conclusions


This is what can be called inertia. During the final work on the MPF program, there were actually only two competing models - the modernized M8 from BAE and, in fact, the Booker itself (née "Griffin 2"). The first, being a 20-ton weakling, got stuck somewhere in the 80-90s and was initially adapted for airborne landings with the corresponding vices in the form of terribly bad ergonomics, weak main armor and, remarkably, did not even have a panoramic sight-observation device for the commander, although this was optional.

The second one, the Booker, combined all the good qualities, from armament to armor, since it had no limits on weight except for the carrying capacity of transport aircraft. There was simply no solution “in the middle” between these two extremes from “invalid” to fat man, although there were many projects and possibilities for its creation. If the customer, the US Defense Department, had said at the development stages “stop, let’s think about how we could make something in the middle, so that both the combat characteristics were up to par and the weight would not go off the charts,” then perhaps this scandal would not have happened now.


BAE Systems' M10 Booker Competitor

But, as they say, they have what they have — the “light tank” turned out to be far from light. And, judging by the statements of Alex Miller (technical director of the defense department), even the option of replacing the “Booker” with a modernized “Abrams” M1E3, which according to plans should weigh significantly less than its predecessors, is being considered. However, whether its weight will be brought up to the weight of the “Booker” is still a big question. Although they will wait for a new “Abrams” or start developing a new light tank, in any case, it can be stated that infantry brigade groups will not receive their desired tank for a very long time. Unless, of course, they are reformed and merged into some other units with heavy weapons.

However, there is an alternative point of view. Of course, it cannot be called completely plausible, but nevertheless. The fact is that, when purchasing military equipment from large companies, the US Army essentially signs a onerous contract, under which it undertakes to perform certain types of repairs and obtain spare parts only from the manufacturer (often at an inflated price), which costs huge amounts of money and time.

I convinced the Secretary of Defense to implement Right to Repair in the Army, and I am glad he kept his word. This reform will make the Army more resilient in future wars, and it will end soldiers’ reliance on giant defense contractors who take billions and spend months repairing the equipment they need. It would be a great victory for our country if all the services followed Secretary Driscoll’s lead and stood up to the defense contractors, stood with the military, and committed to Right to Repair in every contract.
- Senator Warren.

Thus, perhaps the mass refusal to purchase further types of equipment could be a kind of “blackmail” from Trump so that defense companies soften the terms of contracts. At least, he has already taken similar steps on a global scale - the same gigantic duties are an example of this. All this, of course, is written with a pitchfork on the water, but it will not be at all surprising that the recently cancelled models of military equipment suddenly appear again on the green list.

In general, we will see.
159 comments
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  1. -8
    10 May 2025 04: 52
    American-style democracy in all its glory. It's a different story in the USSR: the Minister of Defense wanted a tank with a gas turbine engine - please get a T-80; the Urals didn't want to produce a T-64 - please get a T-72. As a result, the Soviet Army had three different MBTs in service, and this "hemorrhoid" is still going on, and they even put the T-62 into service instead of the Armata!
    1. -4
      10 May 2025 10: 14
      Each plant produced what it could. It would have been possible to leave only the T-64, but only Kharkov could produce it. It would have been possible for everyone to switch to producing the T-80, but its price is three times higher than the T-72.
      1. +1
        10 May 2025 15: 37
        Most likely, there would not be enough capacity for all the factories to produce gas turbine engines...
        It's only on the Internet that it's easy, like you pay money and produce whatever you want, in reality, production is limited by subcontractors. And that's most likely why they churned out 3 different (although largely unified) tanks... And competition between factories is the engine of progress...
        Now they have shoved everything into holdings, killed competition, and as a result, industry has begun to degrade...
        But as combat operations have shown, Soviet tanks after modernization are still superior to any Western or Eastern ones... And this is also due to the fact that we always had a lot of 2-3 (and even for a short time, it seems, 4) factories...
      2. +2
        10 May 2025 22: 14
        That's not the point. Comments about the supposedly unacceptable diversity of tanks come from pro-Ukrainians and those who have not figured it out and joined them. The Kharkov plant desperately fought for its lack of alternatives and monopoly. Fortunately, it failed. But you can't stop them from continuing to mess things up, although...if you want to
    2. -1
      10 May 2025 18: 29
      Yes, yes... Brilliant American democracy in all its glory. Since they started producing the Abrams in 1917, they have been making only one to this day.
    3. -2
      10 May 2025 20: 01
      In essence, they are not far from the truth. That's why they downvote fellow
      1. +3
        10 May 2025 21: 07
        You can't please your people. You'll call healthy competition a pain in the ass, and the lack of alternatives democracy.
        1. 0
          10 May 2025 22: 04
          You can't please your people. You'll call healthy competition a pain in the ass, and the lack of alternatives democracy.
          It's like that!
    4. 0
      11 May 2025 15: 33
      Quote: andrewkor
      It's a different story in the USSR: if the Minister of Defense wanted a tank with a gas turbine engine, please get the T-80; if the Urals didn't want to produce the T-64, please get the T-72.

      The Americans' "light tank" turned out to weigh as much as the T-64 and heavier than the T-62. And this is with very weak armor protection and almost no gun. Let them look at the old T-64, which weighed 34-36 tons from birth, and be envious. But even the T-62 is cooler than this American pacer, both in gun and armor. And especially with a thermal imager and sighting system from the T-80U\T-90A (in the T-62M version).
  2. -5
    10 May 2025 05: 17
    It's somewhat similar to the story with the "Armata". In ancient times, when there were still people who thought that the "Armata" was not a waste of the budget, but a tank, it was credited with all sorts of miraculous properties. And now it's embarrassing even to show it off at a parade. As of 2014, 15 billion had already been spent on this Potemkin parade tank, how many billions were sawed off in the following decade is still a mystery.
    1. +6
      10 May 2025 06: 09
      The results of R&D remained and will be put into action in other areas: a new gun, armor, active protection system, etc. It has always been like this.
      1. 0
        10 May 2025 07: 41
        Quote: Vadim_2
        remained and will be put into action in other areas: a new gun, armor, APS, etc. It has always been like this.

        Let's take the Omsk KBTM "Burlak" project, where the main ammunition was moved to an isolated compartment with blow-out panels located behind the turret. It promised a solution to the 1250-1500 engine issue with a normal service life instead of a boosted descendant of the V-2 with a service life of 300 hours. The issue of reverse gear - a tolerable 11 instead of 4 km / h. A solution to the issue of isolating the ammo and fuel. That is, the survivability of the crew and the preservation of the vehicle. The Burlak has a dual-flow automatic transmission - one in the hull and the second in the turret with an adapter tray, but in practice the hull automatic transmission can be omitted. Well, as a bonus, the "Burlak" could use full-fledged long APFSDS like the decaying West. And the tank was essentially not a competitor to the T-90M, but a competitor to the "Armata". Omsk was head and shoulders above Tagil in the matter of creating a modern tank, while standing on the ground and not hovering in the clouds and dreams in the style of the “Armata”.
        1. +4
          10 May 2025 10: 16
          Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
          He promised a solution to the problem of a 1250-1500 engine with a normal service life instead of a re-powered descendant of the B-2 with a service life of 300 hours.
          The Armata's engine is not a descendant of the B-2, and that's the problem.
          1. 0
            10 May 2025 15: 54
            The problem is that in 85+ years they have not been able to create a single engine better than the V-2 and its upgrades (except for the gas turbine for the T-80)? Is it really true that the Russian Federation and earlier the USSR did not have and does not have its own engine-building design school? Look at marine and automobile diesel engines.
            1. +1
              10 May 2025 16: 11
              Quote: vadim dok
              The problem is that in 85+ years they have not been able to create a single engine better than the V-2 and its upgrades (except for the gas turbine for the T-80)? Is it really true that the Russian Federation and earlier the USSR did not have and does not have its own engine-building design school? Look at marine and automobile diesel engines.

              Well, take a closer look. Especially at automobile ones. If you look deeply, you will put on licenses for most of the supposedly our engines.
              1. -1
                10 May 2025 16: 16
                This is what I am talking about, that Russian engines are LICENSED, and not of our own design.
                1. +1
                  11 May 2025 14: 07
                  Well, maybe not in the Russian Federation, but in the USSR they did work on engines. The same Kharkov plant. The engine was revolutionary and it was brought to perfection already in the 90s, but it turned out to be a very compact and powerful engine.
                  The engine on the BMP-3 is also quite good, although not for a tank. But the latest version already produces 500 hp.
                  But in general, we have always had problems with the internal combustion engine, and this is most likely due to shortcomings in planning and goal setting. After the dissolution of the Great Gosplan "named after Comrade Stalin" by Khrushchev, it was restored under Brezhnev in a completely... amazing form. The efficiency was no longer the same, and the outstanding personnel and school could not be restored after the Khrushchev pogrom.
                  A quality engine takes a long time to be born, so licenses are the easiest, fastest and least risky path. That's what they followed.
              2. 0
                11 May 2025 09: 35
                Quote: SovAr238A
                Well, take a closer look. Especially at automobile ones. If you look deeply, you will put on licenses for most of the supposedly our engines.


                And if you look even more closely, you will see a passenger diesel VAZ-341, for example.
                1. 0
                  12 May 2025 13: 11
                  Quote: ZeeD
                  Quote: SovAr238A
                  Well, take a closer look. Especially at automobile ones. If you look deeply, you will put on licenses for most of the supposedly our engines.


                  And if you look even more closely, you will see a passenger diesel VAZ-341, for example.

                  Where will you see the 341 engine?
                  nowhere...
                  What heresy are you talking about?
                  1. 0
                    12 May 2025 14: 12
                    I am not talking heresy. It was discontinued along with the VAZ "classics" (for example, the VAZ 21045 model).
            2. +1
              10 May 2025 19: 48
              Quote: vadim dok
              they couldn't create a single engine better than the B2 and its upgrades
              To create - no problem. The problem is to mass-produce with the required quality and decent resource. And this has been going on since the tsarist times.
            3. 0
              10 May 2025 20: 04
              Look at the domestic auto industry. There (in the civilian auto industry) and in the military there is a real school. In terms of the level of knowledge (school).
              1. -2
                10 May 2025 21: 10
                Ukraine has not been able to create a single engine for a passenger car. That's why you are so disgusted by our auto industry.
                1. +1
                  10 May 2025 22: 09
                  That's why you're disgusted by our auto industry.
                  No wonder I see how your (our) auto industry is being snapped up like hot cakes abroad, not to mention the Russian Federation. There are queues) Especially for older models, there is a huge demand. I just can't explain clearly where all the Chinese cars on the roads come from. Do you also have a lot of Chinese cars in Nezalezhnaya? Or do you also drive stolen cars from Europe?
                  1. 0
                    10 May 2025 22: 17
                    Don't worry so much about our auto industry, yours practically doesn't exist anymore. ZAZ has been a goner for a long time. And if it rises, it will be Russian.
                    1. -1
                      10 May 2025 22: 21
                      Don't worry so much about our auto industry
                      After the deal on resources, the Americans won't help you, Svidomo, with the production of even simple carts with a motor? And they screwed your Nenka in this?
                      1. +2
                        11 May 2025 14: 11
                        You have a funny dialogue - "х0х0L - himself x0х0L".
                      2. 0
                        11 May 2025 14: 22
                        Quote: bayard
                        You have a funny dialogue - "х0х0L - himself x0х0L".

                        I guess both Tsips are swearing for the sake of Conspiracy laughing
        2. 0
          10 May 2025 13: 32
          Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
          Let's take the project of the Omsk KBTM "Burlak"

          Interesting car!
        3. -1
          10 May 2025 20: 42
          All these features and bells and whistles are nullified by the UAV. You can forget and forget about them.
          1. -1
            10 May 2025 23: 28
            The UAV is zeroed from a 12-gauge hunting rifle with a shotgun or buckshot cartridge with the proper experience. In fact, this is a solvable engineering problem. It is a matter of time to solve it. And heavy equipment will again become the king of the battlefield
            1. +1
              11 May 2025 00: 49
              The UAV is zeroed out with a 12 gauge hunting rifle
              The tank's active protection is being sanded down by a 30 mm automatic cannon of a BMP. A video of such an incident is circulating on the Internet. Among other things, the tank's turret jammed. Fortunately, the crew was saved.

              with shot or buckshot cartridges, with due experience
              Only, unlike a duck, a drone can fly much faster and along a more complex trajectory. And when a reconnaissance or drop drone hangs at an altitude of 100-150 m, try to get it with shot. And most importantly, where is this proper experience? Where does it come from? Who in this life has seen a clay pigeon throwing machine at an army shooting range? Maybe someone here will name a 12-gauge shotgun, officially in service with RA fighters? Even in reports on federal TV channels, fighters and war correspondents walk around with civilian shotguns.

              In fact, this is a solvable engineering problem.

              1 Lasers have already been used. Where are they? Where did they go?
              2 They threatened with bombs and missiles with EMP. Where is at least a single method of application?
              3 Anti-aircraft guns with controlled detonation shells. Just talk.
              4 Missile air defense systems are not capable of dealing with every drone, and you can’t train enough missiles.
              5 Anti-drones (specialized for combating UAVs) are also still in discussions.
              6 electronic warfare systems, like air defense, are not enough for everyone and no longer help against all drones (drones on fiber optics)

              It's just a matter of time to solve it.
              It's been far from a month and far from a year. Where are the real working solutions? Not homemade ones (the famous Gromozeka), which, if possible, close all possible holes, but turn the tank into a sarcophagus on tracks. How much more time is needed? How many five-year plans must pass?

              And heavy equipment will once again become the king of the battlefield.
              It won't. With modern mass production capabilities, it's easier, cheaper and faster to make a thousand, or even several thousand simple drones than one well-protected tank.
              Want to play economics, let's go? How much would a good UAV cost? $1000 (DJI Air 2S)? Let's add the costs of the military's specific requirements for the device. Let it, with all its desires, jump in price to $3000 (I understand that this is fantasy wassat ). The cost of a deeply modernized T-90MS reaches $4,3 million. How many drones can be made for the price of one tank?
              1. 0
                11 May 2025 01: 38
                A modern FPV drone is the size of a duck, has no armor, and causes damage when it hits something. And to disable it, lead shot is enough. It is not necessary to bring it down at a distance of 200 meters, it can be brought down at a distance of 50 meters. And you can shoot not with a 12 gauge, but with an 8 or even 4, and not with one cartridge, but with a burst of 3-4. And it should be guided not by a keen eye, but by a guidance system with a servo drive. And it does not necessarily have to be on a tank, it can be on a robotic support platform. The task is purely engineering. Theoretically, an APS should help against the FPV, but the APS still has a small number of charges, which means it can be discharged into thin air, and is designed to intercept faster targets.
                In principle, the task is purely engineering, it's just that no one has set it yet. FPVs appeared not so long ago. Although the fight against a swarm of drones was described by Stanislav Lem in his "Invincible" and later by N. Perumov in the series "Skull in the Sky". Of course, there are other drones described there, but there is a theoretical basis for both.
                If this war lasts another year, we will see mobile micro air defense on the battlefield, shooting at 50-100 meters, purely from drones.
                1. 0
                  12 May 2025 00: 05
                  A modern FPV drone is the size of a duck, has no armor, and causes damage when it hits something. And to disable it, a lead pellet is enough.
                  A modern tank is the size of an elephant, only noticeably heavier, maybe faster, its cross-country ability is debatable. To dispose of it (the tank), an accurate shot from an RPG-7 is enough. As always, there are nuances. You need to be able to get close to the tank for an accurate shot. With a drone, the same song, with its own nuances in the choruses. Well, a drone also needs armor, like an RPG-7 shot. Drones are a relatively inexpensive and very convenient consumable.

                  It is not necessary to knock him down at a distance of 200 meters, he can be knocked down at a distance of 50 meters
                  It is imperative to bring it down! This is dogma! A drone is not only a discharge or a cumulative charge, it is also eyes in a wide range of electromagnetic waves, it can be ears. If a drone hangs far away and does nothing, most likely, an artillery or specially prepared charged drone will soon fly to you personally. Even from a distance of 500 m at a speed of 100 km / h, it will fly to you quite quickly, in just 18.5 seconds. A mortar mine will be much faster and from a greater distance.

                  And it should be guided not by a keen eye, but by a guidance system with a servo drive. And it does not necessarily have to be on the tank, it can be on a robotic support platform.
                  How to already specify the implementation details. The robotic platform is also not suitable for several points:
                  1 we don't have any of that for either infantry or armored vehicles. Therefore, it will take a lot of time (by the standards of wartime of the current high-intensity combat operations) to somehow wedge in, place this equipment and conduct combat coordination.
                  Lesson 2 with the BMPT seems to have been learned. Anything else next to the tank to ensure its protection (but not the tank) must have a similar level of protection, cross-country ability and maneuverability (remember the BMPT again) as a result it can turn into a burden or a hindrance. Especially with the current level of mining.

                  The task is purely engineering.
                  Modern military operations in Ukraine, when examined in detail, are very similar to purely engineering tasks. There is a war of minds and technologies.

                  If this war lasts another year, we will see mobile micro air defense on the battlefield, shooting at 50-100 meters, purely from drones.
                  You wrote about KAZ above. How are things with them? Are there kits everywhere, do they do their job perfectly? Do they cause no complaints?
                  The war has been going on for four years now. The only things available to fight drones are anti-drone jammers and civilian guns, with all the problems of getting them for the fighters:
                  1 they won't just sell it in the store (they don't have the right by law),
                  2 In order for a fighter to receive permission to purchase a long-barreled smoothbore firearm and cartridges for it, the fighter must contact the LRO with documents and certificates
                  3 wait until the department processes the application, because there is already a flood of applications, especially for permission to use limited military service, from new citizens from various republics who for some reason forget to register for military service
                  4 if I decide to sell (it is not customary to give weapons as gifts, especially since there are many different superstitions on the front line, so as to pester others) my karamultuk for a symbolic iron coin, then I have the right to do so in the LRO at the place of actual residence of the buyer (I think this is in the law on weapons)
                  5 the question of supplying fighters with ammunition remains open
                  6 from what is briefly visible in TV reports, there is a complete mess of models and calibers. But! But there is still nothing that could be considered a standard weapon for a fighter to fight drones. It is safe to assume that there is still no consensus on what number of shot or buckshot will be the most suitable and what powder charge to make or make a powerful jammer to cook the drone with microwaves along with the electronics
                  For now, fighters with anti-drone or smoothbore guns act as micro air defense
            2. 0
              11 May 2025 00: 57
              The problem of the cumulative charge is almost 100 years old. As soon as we solve it, as soon as we solve it, we immediately get roof-busters or tandem ones, so how long will it take to solve the problem with drones? I suggest Not to say that the problem with drones is about to be solved without a link to a serial device that will solve the problem with drones, a gun is such a thing, you also need to carry a gun
      2. +2
        10 May 2025 12: 51
        Quote: Vadim_2
        The results of R&D remained and will be put into use in other areas

        So the tank itself will most likely go into production. It's not a fact, but it could very well happen.
        1. -2
          10 May 2025 13: 46
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          It's not a fact, but it's quite possible

          I hope not. Even before the Armata, in the 90s, it was clear that the prospects for tanks lay in increasing firepower. Since it is obvious that the tank itself is gradually turning from a means of breakthrough into a means of fire support for the front line. Therefore, they actively worked towards the 152 mm gun. We can recall the models of that time: "Object 292" (T-80 with a 152 mm turret), "Object 477" or "Boxer" (with a 152 mm gun extended upwards), "Object 195" or T-95 (they say the direct ancestor of the Armata). Against their background, the Armata was a step back, and I see no point in improving an obviously unsuccessful and relatively weak machine.
          1. +2
            10 May 2025 14: 02
            Quote: Saxahorse
            Against this background, Armata became a step backwards

            It didn't, because equipping it with a 125 mm gun is a temporary solution, a more powerful gun is planned. The issue here is more about saving - a 152 mm tank gun will require a lot of shells, and for a 125 mm one can use the ones available.
            1. 0
              10 May 2025 14: 36
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              It didn't, because equipping it with a 125mm gun was a temporary solution.

              This temporary solution will require a complete redesign of the turret, since the recoil is greater, the gun is heavier, and the dimensions of the shells are also larger. In the end, the new tank will be the same. And there is no point in finishing the Armata.
              1. -1
                10 May 2025 14: 42
                Quote: Saxahorse
                This temporary solution will require a complete redesign of the tower.

                That's what you think. Another option is that the turret was originally adapted for 152 mm, but for now 125 mm is installed.
                1. +1
                  10 May 2025 14: 44
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  That's what you think. Another option is that the turret was originally adapted for 152 mm, but for now 125 mm is installed.

                  Did you come up with this right now or did the General Staff share the inside information with you? wassat
                  1. +2
                    10 May 2025 17: 39
                    It was in the publications on Armata that the tank was created specifically for the 152 mm.
                    1. -1
                      10 May 2025 20: 53
                      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                      It was in the publications on Armata that the tank was created specifically for the 152 mm.

                      The T-152 was created for 95 mm (in the photo the T-95 tank (o.195) with a 152 mm 2A83 gun) then they said that there would be a new chassis and the turret would be taken from the T-95, in the end both the turret and the chassis were new. And both turned out raw by all indications.
                      1. +1
                        11 May 2025 03: 38
                        I remember an article about a module with a 152 mm gun being tested on the armament. But now I couldn't find that article, so yes, I have nothing to confirm my opinion with.
                      2. 0
                        11 May 2025 13: 32
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I remember an article about a module with a 152 mm gun being tested on the armament.

                        The question is that in 25-35 years it would have been quite possible to improve something temporary. If there was such a desire from the beginning, of course.
                      3. 0
                        11 May 2025 14: 57
                        Andrey, the "Armata" was not designed to have a 152 mm gun. I saw and heard how Medvedev gave the assignment for the future "Armata". Then the fate of the T-95 was being decided. And it was the need to develop a full line of ammunition for its 152 mm gun that became the reason for abandoning it, they say it's expensive, because it would be necessary to make a large stock of new shells for the new tank gun, and we have full warehouses of 125 mm shells. So, they say, let's make an improved 125 mm gun for the existing ammunition. , because "its power" against modern NATO tanks is quite sufficient." At that time, the future "Armata" did not even have a name, nor did it have a tank itself. And he also said (Medvedev, who was president at the time), not to use existing equipment as a basis, but to develop everything completely from scratch. At that time, there was talk about other future armored vehicles ("Kurganets-25", "Boomerang"). So, at his command at that time, they concocted obscenities. But there were samples for implementation, quite suitable, and the country had money (those same "fat years" for the budget), and time to organize production and rearm the Army, and personnel, and capacity.
                        The possibility of installing a gun developed for the T-14 on the T-95 was discussed soon after this "Miracle" was first shown at a parade. When the huge price, complexity and size were in no way justified by the practically same firepower as the previous MBTs. The only advantage was the extended APFSDS. The total increase in combat capabilities compared to the T-90 and other MBTs for the T-14 was estimated at 15%. With a two-fold increase in the cost of the tank during purchase, as well as the need to accumulate spare parts and retrain personnel ... In short, it was already obvious that this was a failure. Like the idea with the "Kurganets" and "Boomerang". The first one was immediately dubbed (by the generals who saw it for the first time) "The Grenade Launcher's Dream", and the second one, due to the crudeness of its design, unreliability of its engine and monstrous price... since then they have tried not to mention it in vain at all.
                        The SVO has put everything in its place. The equipment must be mass-produced, and therefore technologically advanced (convenient and "cheap" to produce), inexpensive, use serial units and assemblies, and the engines must also be serial and well-mastered by the industry. Such equipment should be the front-engine BMP-3M with a stern ramp and the BTR-82B - with reinforced armor, front-mounted MTO, with a stern ramp. Their price is 3-4 times lower than the hyped D.A. Medvedev Game, everything is on well-mastered and serial units and assemblies and can be produced even yesterday in large series. There are plenty of spare parts for them in the troops, personnel will master them quickly and with pleasure.
              2. -2
                10 May 2025 17: 14
                As an option: a self-propelled gun with a wheelhouse instead of a turret.
          2. -1
            10 May 2025 14: 33
            Because it is obvious that the tank itself is gradually transforming from a means of breakthrough into a means of fire support for the front line.

            Who and where and into what is it being transformed? Do you have an answer to this question? And the answer to this question must be developed and adopted by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Didn't know? We need a Modern Combat (MC) concept! Based on this concept, the concept of using a tank in this battle is adopted. And then everything else. In our General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with all its departments, institutes, research institutes, academies - there is no such concept. Our military command does not have an adopted MC concept. It is necessary to make decisions and be responsible for them. They are constantly trying to impose on you the idea that the military fights with what the industry has given. This is the position of an ostrich with its head in the sand. The industry does what the military orders, and the military forms the requirements for the types of equipment and their performance characteristics, based on the accepted views on modern warfare. I emphasize, officially adopted in the form of concepts and doctrines. But our General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation does not have such views! They do not exist. Everyone invents something on their own. Here is the result, as in the SVO. What can a reindeer herder or an economist with Gerasimov accept? The senile generals who have gone out of their minds can host parades and hang medals and have no idea about modern warfare... By the way, many provisions are set out in the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation from 2014! Do you think anyone read it? It says about the massive use of UAVs in the Security Council in 2014. And what new did you see in the SVO?
            1. -3
              10 May 2025 16: 20
              Quote: Okko777
              Because it is obvious that the tank itself is gradually transforming from a means of breakthrough into a means of fire support for the front line.

              Who and where and into what is it being transformed? Do you have an answer to this question? And the answer to this question must be developed and adopted by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Didn't know? We need a Modern Combat (MC) concept! Based on this concept, the concept of using a tank in this battle is adopted. And then everything else. In our General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation with all its departments, institutes, research institutes, academies - there is no such concept. Our military command does not have an adopted MC concept. It is necessary to make decisions and be responsible for them. They are constantly trying to impose on you the idea that the military fights with what the industry has given. This is the position of an ostrich with its head in the sand. The industry does what the military orders, and the military forms the requirements for the types of equipment and their performance characteristics, based on the accepted views on modern warfare. I emphasize, officially adopted in the form of concepts and doctrines. But our General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation does not have such views! They do not exist. Everyone invents something on their own. Here is the result, as in the SVO. What can a reindeer herder or an economist with Gerasimov accept? The senile generals who have gone out of their minds can host parades and hang medals and have no idea about modern warfare... By the way, many provisions are set out in the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation from 2014! Do you think anyone read it? It says about the massive use of UAVs in the Security Council in 2014. And what new did you see in the SVO?

              I think another option is possible.
              The military demands something new, but the military-industrial complex cannot and does not want to.
              The military-industrial complex connects all administrative resources, all ministers and goes to complain to Putin that the war years want to destroy us. We have hundreds of thousands of workers, they have children. Social security is huge. Therefore, in order not to destroy everyone, eat what you can and give, warriors.
              And Putin doesn't want to lose face. You can't order workers, but you can order warriors.
              This is how the military-industrial complex crushes us and our army with its ossified, outdated and wretched technology. At a high price.
            2. -1
              10 May 2025 21: 53
              Our military command does not have an accepted concept of security.
              So all the concepts that existed before were buried alive by drones, and most of them were civilian ones.

              Industry does what the military orders, and the military forms requirements for types of equipment and their performance characteristics, based on accepted views on modern warfare.
              Now the caliber size and length of the gun do not play a big role. It turns out that communication means, detection, recognition, target selection, electronic warfare, electronic warfare and counter-battery warfare means are much more important, and all this is microelectronics and software. And where is all this diversity in the range of products produced by domestic manufacturers? For example, high-performance microprocessors are needed to solve counter-battery warfare problems in real time. Which of the manufacturers in our country produces at least something suitable for this?
              Remind me how things really are? After the start of the SVO and the introduction of sanctions, banks and mobile operators had a big problem with issuing cards and SIM cards, because no one made them in our country. Sber realized that they started to pull chips out of old cards to ensure processing. Is the General Staff and the Ministry of Defense to blame again?

              It says there about the massive use of UAVs in the Security Council in 2014
              I remember how on this resource, even after the start of the SVO, they vilified drones and everything connected with them. And before that, any author writing about drones and unmanned aerial vehicles was laughed at and subjected to a total rout in the comments. They began to scare people with the widespread use of weapons with EMP (where is even one episode of such use?), scared them with lasers (where did our Peresvets go?), and of course they were going to shoot down everything with planes and helicopters from aircraft cannons. Where is all this?
              Now you can’t stick your head out on a fine day: everything is mined (including by drones), the air is controlled by reconnaissance drones, to the aid of which strike drones or airdrops arrive.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          3. 0
            10 May 2025 15: 46
            So, Armata was initially designed with the idea that it would be possible to install a 152mm gun when it was developed...
            125mm is a temporary measure until there is a new gun and shells...
            The system was immediately closed, because money was not given for a new gun and shells until the tank confirmed its characteristics and, most importantly, until there was capacity for its production, since developing a gun for a small-scale tank is very, very expensive and pointless...
            If there is an order for 1000+ tanks, they will start developing a 152 mm cannon.
            1. +1
              10 May 2025 20: 46
              Quote: Georgy Sviridov
              So, Armata was initially designed with the idea that it would be possible to install a 152mm gun when it was developed...

              It's not like that. The 152 mm guns were developed a long time ago. LP-83/2A73 - 1989-91, 2A83 - 1995-2000, 152 mm guns LP-81, LP-91 for ob.477A and ob.299 are also mentioned.
              1. 0
                12 May 2025 14: 39
                The guns never went into production, it is clear that the gun will not be developed from scratch, but those guns that were developed in the early 90s definitely need to be finalized to meet modern requirements. Not to mention the fact that in any case the gun needs to be adjusted to the product, fasteners, placement of recoil devices, etc. The same 125mm gun was adopted for service in the 60s, and then it was modernized a huge number of times. Modern guns are more accurate, have a longer range, have a longer service life, work with a wider range of ammunition, etc., etc.
                Actually, the range of ammunition needs to be developed, debugged so that everything works optimally with the weapon... There, the development of the weapon based on those samples takes at least a year, and then further refinement when launching into production, then refinement during testing...
                2-3 years is a minimum, but in reality it would take 5-6 years of work with the bureaucracy we have now.
                1. 0
                  12 May 2025 21: 52
                  Quote: Georgy Sviridov
                  There, it only takes a year to develop a weapon based on those samples, and then some fine-tuning when launching it into production, then fine-tuning during testing...
                  2-3 years is a minimum, but in reality it would take 5-6 years of work with the bureaucracy we have now.

                  It's been 35 years already. It feels like we haven't even started yet.
              2. +1
                12 May 2025 14: 43
                It seems they were going to install a gun based on the 2a83...
                But in reality, no one seriously worked on anything... The only thing was that the dimensions were designed with this in mind, and the turret ring, taking into account the loads when firing a 152mm shell...
                But if there is a request from the army, it will not be possible to immediately install 2a83, everything still needs to be improved.
                Plus, again, somewhere we need to open a production line for weapons...
          4. 0
            10 May 2025 16: 01
            After all, a tank is not a self-propelled gun and there is no need to install a 152 mm separate loading gun. For a 125 mm gun, it is necessary to develop new projectiles with an enhanced propellant charge and, accordingly, new gun barrels.
            1. 0
              10 May 2025 20: 42
              Quote: vadim dok
              After all, a tank is not a self-propelled gun and there is no need to install a 152 mm separate-loading gun.

              No need why? Haven't you noticed that now tanks are most often used in LBS as SPGs? A reinforced SPG, which is harder to suppress than Akatsiya, for example.
              1. 0
                11 May 2025 15: 00
                Quote: Saxahorse
                The 152 mm guns were developed long ago. LP-83/2A73 - 1989-91, 2A83 - 1995-2000, 152 mm guns LP-81, LP-91 for ob.477A and ob.299 are also mentioned.
                There is a video online of a T-80 with a 152mm gun (Object 292 with an LP-83 gun) rolling around a training ground. When stopped abruptly, the T-80 sways back and forth for a while, like a crane on a wheeled chassis. The 152mm gun weighs 5 tons (the standard 125mm gun weighs 2,5).
                And its power is clearly excessive (if we consider that the main enemy of the tank is the enemy tank). Between the caliber of 125 mm and 152 mm there are also intermediate ones, such as 130 - 140 mm. That's where the caliber for the tank gun would be chosen.
                1. 0
                  11 May 2025 15: 11
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  And its power is clearly excessive (if we consider that the main enemy of a tank is the enemy tank).

                  But you shouldn't think like that. Over the last 30 years, literally only a few have died in tank-versus-tank duels, the rest are mines, ATGMs, drones... A tank is really needed to take out fortifications with direct fire. This was obvious even in WoW, it's no coincidence that the IS was produced with a 122 mm cannon. There is no point in saving 2.5 tons at the expense of the main task of the tank.
                  1. 0
                    11 May 2025 15: 23
                    Quote: Bad_gr
                    if we consider that the main enemy of a tank is the enemy tank
                    Quote: Saxahorse
                    But you don't need to think like that.
                    Can you explain why almost all modern tanks (starting with the T-62) are equipped with a smoothbore gun? What are the main purposes of a smoothbore gun?
                    1. 0
                      11 May 2025 15: 30
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      What are the main purposes of a smoothbore gun?

                      The purpose of a smoothbore gun is to accelerate the projectile to maximum speed. That is, against armor and particularly strong fortifications. And they are installed on tanks by inertia. In the 1950-70s, the main striking means of the enemy were tens of thousands of tanks. And to repel such a blow, tens of thousands of barrels were needed. Today, tanks are produced in the best case in hundreds, and the stocks of the same ATGMs are calculated in hundreds of thousands, they are often spent on infantry. The special meaning in the developed anti-tank capabilities of tank guns has disappeared, but they continue to be used by inertia. So they are good against fortifications.
        2. -2
          10 May 2025 16: 13
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Quote: Vadim_2
          The results of R&D remained and will be put into use in other areas

          So the tank itself will most likely go into production. It's not a fact, but it could very well happen.

          No.
          The tank is useless in the form in which it is designed.
          The absence of the entire pack of unique people that have been parading for the last 10 years is an example of this.
      3. +1
        10 May 2025 14: 47
        Quote: Vadim_2
        R&D results remain and will be put into action
        That's exactly it! There are no completely failed projects! In the portfolio and in the minds of engineers, in any case, there are some developments left
    2. -1
      10 May 2025 10: 33
      The concept of the armata is still very relevant today. You need to remove some elements, add some and you will have a super tank.
      1. -2
        10 May 2025 13: 48
        Quote from: newtc7
        The concept of the armata is still very relevant today. You need to remove some elements, add some and you will have a super tank.

        It won't, we need to increase the caliber. They are already doing this in Europe.
        1. 0
          10 May 2025 16: 03
          Aroma has a 125 mm gun, in Europe they want a 130 mm - not a very big difference. The main thing is the shells.
          1. 0
            11 May 2025 22: 47
            Quote: vadim dok
            Aroma has a 125 mm gun, in Europe they want a 130 mm - not a very big difference. The main thing is the shells.
            The first photo shows two unitary shells. One is 130 mm caliber, the other is 120 mm. The second photo shows two subcaliber shells, the first is 152 mm caliber, the second is 125 mm.
      2. -1
        10 May 2025 14: 40
        There is no concept! How can something that does not exist and never exist be relevant? Someone made a tank, but who needs it and for what? Do you understand the absurdity of such creativity? See my comment above.
    3. 0
      10 May 2025 12: 50
      Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
      In ancient times, when there were still people who thought that "Armata" did not embezzle the budget

      Many people still think so. Because this is not a budget embezzlement.
      1. -2
        10 May 2025 13: 44
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Many people still think so. Because this is not a budget embezzlement.

        What do you think, if there was a crew in a “capsule” behind the front of the hull, separated by a 25 mm armored bulkhead like in the “Armata”, would it help?
        1. +4
          10 May 2025 13: 45
          I think you are asking an absurd question. It is clear that there are damages that an armored capsule will not protect against. But there are also damages that a tank without an armored capsule will lose its crew, while a tank with an armored capsule will retain its crew.
          Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
          in a "capsule" behind the front of the hull, separated by a 25 mm armored bulkhead as in the "Armata"

          How do you know it's 25mm?
          1. +1
            10 May 2025 14: 00
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            It is clear that there are damages from which the armored capsule will not protect. But there are also damages in which a tank without an armored capsule will lose its crew, while a tank with an armored capsule will retain its crew.

            The Tagil Kulibins placed the mechanized ammunition stowage under the cabin floor. The SVO revealed another important drawback of the automatic loader - it is located on the bottom of the T-90M tank and when it is hit, the ammunition detonates.
            Our bright Tagil tank-building minds, instead of blow-out panels, suggested solving the problem by means of partitions separating the ammunition from the crew. Whether this will work can be assessed by the T-64, 80, 90 tanks torn to pieces. If there is no outlet for the pressure, then the explosion of the HE will be enough to launch the VLD to the moon and some partitions will not save there. As for the thickness of the partition, I will look for a source.

            1. 0
              10 May 2025 14: 08
              Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
              The SVO has identified another important drawback of the automatic loader: it is located on the bottom of the T-90M tank and when it is hit, the ammunition detonates.

              Firstly, the ammunition in the turret also detonates - cheerfully and happily. At the same time, its protection in the turret is weaker than in the hull. The turret is heavier, more vulnerable. That is why ALL foreign tanks except the Abrams retain part of the ammunition in the hull. Where it can easily detonate.
              Secondly, there is no data that the explosion of ammunition in the Abrams is not fatal for the crew. That is, ammunition in the turret does not seem to be a panacea at all.
              1. 0
                10 May 2025 14: 21
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                That is why ALL foreign tanks except Abrams keep part of their ammunition in the hull, where it can easily detonate.

                The Khinzirs in their "Leopard-2A4" store ammunition only in the turret. There is no room for fools in the hull.
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                Secondly, there is no data that the detonation of ammunition in the Abrams is not fatal for the crew.

                The Abrams loader takes shells from a separate compartment with armored doors. He has some chances. In case of detonation of the T-14's ammo, the same thing will happen as with other tanks with a carousel.

                Review of the turret niche with ammunition of the Leopard 2A4 tank of the Ukrainian army.

                As expected, tankers do not place shells in the hull near the driver, where it is much easier to set them on fire and cause the detonation of the ammunition along with the entire tank (which could be seen in the famous photos from Syria in 2017).

                The second half of the video (1:08) shows the consequences of an FPV drone hitting a turret niche with ammunition - the armored shutter between the ammunition and the crew members in the turret withstood the fire, preventing the flames from getting inside.

                https://t.me/milinfolive/145898
                1. +2
                  10 May 2025 14: 41
                  Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                  The Khinzirs in their Leopard-2A4s store ammunition only in the turret.

                  Study the ammunition. The 2A4 has 15 of 42 rounds stored in the first-priority stowage, located in the rear niche of the turret under the blowout panel, the rest are in the front part of the tank hull to the left of the driver. That is, the placement is very... inadequate, so we have to refuse to store the shells there, reducing the ammunition load to 18 shells.
                  Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                  The Abrams loader takes shells from a separate compartment with armored doors. He has some chances.

                  Let's start with the simple - due to the vulnerability of the storage location, the Abrams's ammo pack has a much higher chance of detonating than the T-90's. Accordingly, all other things being equal, the Abrams' ammo pack will detonate more often. And it is far from certain that "some chance" of surviving such an explosion will compensate for the increased frequency of detonations.
                  Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                  The second half of the video (1:08) shows the consequences of an FPV drone hitting a turret niche with ammunition - the armored shutter between the ammunition and the crew members in the turret withstood the fire, preventing the flames from getting inside.

                  It survived the fire, but not the ammo explosion:)))) And how about the T-90, is it easy to detonate the ammo with an FPV drone?
                  1. 0
                    11 May 2025 08: 58
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    How easy is it to blow up the T-90's ammunition with an FPV drone?

                    The Khinzirs specifically hit the side of the carousel with drones. The armor there is 80 mm. The turret is penetrated from above by the same RKG-3 hand-held cumulative grenades.

                    https://t.me/milinfolive/94848?single
                2. 0
                  10 May 2025 15: 29
                  The Abrams loader takes shells from a separate compartment with armored doors. He has some chances.


                  The design with the armor curtain and blowout panels in the Abrams is designed exclusively for the combustion of the ammunition. If the ammunition detonates (as in the video), nothing will save it.

                  What kind of armor curtain and panels can we talk about if the tank is literally torn to shreds, and the turret is thrown tens of meters? The explosion is not directed, it will not only go into the panels.
                  1. 0
                    10 May 2025 15: 41
                    When you learn to distinguish:
                    1. Fire of propellant charges.
                    2. Detonation of propellant charges.
                    3. Detonation of the ammunition.
                    The video above shows the detonation of metal charges (gunpowder). HE shells detonate extremely rarely.
                    And the curtain on the Abrams does not protect against detonation, it prevents it.
                    1. +1
                      10 May 2025 18: 07
                      Indeed, when you learn to distinguish it. Propelling charges are part of the ammunition.

                      The tank's ammunition, or more correctly, the ammunition carried, is that component of the combat vehicle's weapons system, the use of which ensures the defeat of the enemy.


                      And the curtain on the Abrams does not protect against detonation, it prevents it.


                      How so? lol We need to tell the Yankees about this, because they don’t know about it and there are plenty of photos of the Abrams after detonation on the Internet.
                      1. -1
                        10 May 2025 19: 58
                        So don't be unfounded and show Abrams after detonation, and not after the ammo fire. There is only one Abrams on the entire Internet with a torn niche. Or, according to the classics, will you drop an Abrams with a torn off turret after a landmine explosion, where the turret was simply torn off the ring without any impact on the ammo?
                      2. +2
                        10 May 2025 20: 16
                        Well, as expected, there was no answer to the question "How?" Because the answer is very simple - no way. A thin curtain separating the BC from the crew cannot protect this BC from damage.
                      3. -2
                        10 May 2025 20: 29
                        And who wrote where that the curtain saves from the defeat of the BC? It seems that this is not its task at all.
                      4. -1
                        10 May 2025 23: 21
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        So don't be unfounded and show Abrams after detonation, and not after the fire of the ammo.

                        What is there to detonate in the Abrams? There are no HE shells in the Abrams' ammunition loadout. APFSDS and cumulative charges - that's all.
                      5. -1
                        10 May 2025 23: 34
                        Quote: DesToeR
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        So don't be unfounded and show Abrams after detonation, and not after the fire of the ammo.

                        What is there to detonate in the Abrams? There are no HE shells in the Abrams' ammunition loadout. APFSDS and cumulative charges - that's all.

                        The standard tank fuel for 8 hours of operation is 1360 liters of kerosene. Of these, almost a ton is located on both sides of the driver. Kerosene does not seem to detonate, but I think it would be no easier for the crew in the event of a fire.
                      6. +1
                        11 May 2025 03: 51
                        But the M830 doesn't have any explosives at all, and the cumulative jet is formed from a vacuum?
                      7. -1
                        11 May 2025 15: 17
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        There is only one Abrams with a torn niche on the entire Internet.
                        Wow, how many years have passed since the war in Iraq, but the legend of the only knocked-out "Abrams" in the entire Iraqi war, photographed from different angles, is still alive. Are you talking about this "Abrams", or does Ukraine have its own knocked-out "Abrams" photographed from different angles?
                      8. 0
                        11 May 2025 17: 00
                        Are we reading between the lines or what? Or is it just dull trolling and there is nothing to answer in fact? It seems to be clearly written "with a torn tower niche". Do you know more cases, show me.
                      9. 0
                        11 May 2025 22: 33
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        If you know of more cases, show me.
                        Okay, let's think logically. The only (let it be so) photo of a torn turret niche does not at all indicate that the case of an ammunition rack explosion with such a result was the only one. Can you explain why on other Abrams, with the same turret design, made of the same metal, the same thickness, containing the same shells in the ammunition rack - there cannot be the same result after an ammunition rack explosion. ?
                      10. 0
                        11 May 2025 23: 02
                        I repeat once again, learn to distinguish:
                        Fire of propellant charges
                        Detonation of propellant charges
                        Detonation of the ammunition.
                        On our tanks from the T-72 to the T-90 series, in 90% of cases, it is the gunpowder that explodes, not the OFS and KUM shells. Yes, it is the gunpowder that explodes. High-explosive shells detonate extremely rarely. On the Abrams, to prevent the gunpowder from exploding, the blowout panels fly off, preventing explosive pressure from forming. If the Abrams is fully loaded with only OFS shells and the KUM jet does not hit the OFS charge itself, there will simply be a fire without any detonation. And yes, if the OFS itself is hit, then this is a detonation and death for the entire crew. Is it so difficult to understand?
                      11. 0
                        11 May 2025 23: 08
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        Is it so hard to understand?
                        I know it.
                        We can also discuss the topic of what is better,
                        ammunition in the turret, where, according to statistics, most of the shells hit, but with knock-out panels above the ammunition stowage, or
                        the ammunition stowage is at the bottom of the tank, where there are no blow-out panels, but it is also much more difficult to hit.
                      12. 0
                        11 May 2025 23: 12
                        There is no dispute, each of the options has its own pros and cons. It is easier to get into the niche, but it is also much easier for the crew to survive, since at least in most cases the crew is saved from the fire of the ammo. With a niche in the tower, the detonation of the ammo when detonated by a mine or landmine is not scary, agree?
                      13. 0
                        11 May 2025 23: 17
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        The detonation of the ammo when it hits a mine is not scary, do you agree?
                        There are nuances. If a standard mine explodes under a roller, then as a rule the crew is alive, and the tank is restored after a short repair.
                        If it's an anti-bottom mine, then yes, the ammunition detonation. But then the Abrams crew won't be well off with such an explosion (they are compactly located in the center) of the tank
                3. -2
                  10 May 2025 16: 13
                  The Ukrainian Armed Forces only have old Leopard 1A5 tanks with a 105 mm gun.
                4. 0
                  10 May 2025 19: 48
                  Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                  The Khinzirs in their "Leopard-2A4" store ammunition only in the turret. There is no room for fools in the hull.
                  There are only 15 shells in the turret, and the main ammunition rack is in the hull next to the driver. If the hohols think that there is no need to load the main ammunition rack, then what prevents our guys from doing the same? For example, leave only 15 shells in the ammunition rack, on the side of the engine compartment. By the way, the ammunition rack at the bottom of the tank is the most protected place, and if they got to it, they would have gotten to other places even more so.
                  Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                  The Abrams loader takes shells from a separate compartment with armored doors. He has some chances.
                  If the gunpowder burns out in the cartridge case, and at the same time the armored door to the ammunition rack is closed, then there is a chance. No door will hold the explosion of even one HE shell. Although, it depends on the shell. The video shows a burnt-out ammunition rack behind the turret, where shells with burnt-out casings are lying. What kind of explosives do they have that could not rupture the shell of the shell casing?
                  1. 0
                    10 May 2025 20: 06
                    Why would the armored door suddenly be open if after the shell is removed, it closes automatically? And who said that the door should protect against detonation? It performs its function, preventing flames from getting into the fighting compartment while the powder charges are burning in the niche.
                    And secondly, don't you know that the shells use special chemistry that prevents combustion from external influences? And there was news somewhere about 5 years ago that the Germans came up with an OFS shell that does not detonate from external influences. Whether this is true or not is a rhetorical question.
                    1. 0
                      10 May 2025 22: 27
                      Quote from Nesvoy
                      Why would the armored door suddenly be open if after the shell is removed, it closes automatically?

                      Training sessions of the loader of the "Leopard-2" https://youtu.be/5EiznrAw_z8
                      "Abrams" Pay attention to how long the armored door is open at the beginning of the film https://youtu.be/qKdy-acaDlM?t=34 . During the battle, this situation will be repeated constantly.
                      1. 0
                        11 May 2025 03: 57
                        In the first video on Leo 2, the loader breaks the rules and cheats by blocking the door from closing. And don't forget, this is a training session, not a real tank. And what's wrong with the video with the Abrams? The loader opened the door by pressing the pedal, looked for 5 seconds, slightly took out the shell, put it back and the door closed as it should after 2 seconds. And are you implying that the loader stands the whole time and presses the pedal, holding the door open?
                      2. 0
                        11 May 2025 12: 29
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        And are you implying that the loader stands all the time and presses the pedal, holding the door open?
                        What hints? The armored door can be open, which means the chance that it will be open at the moment of the ammunition depot explosion is not zero. And at the moment of the battle, when the rate of fire is important, it will be like in the training film with the "Lerpard-2", especially if they even teach this, and do not hammer into your head that this is absolutely forbidden.
                      3. -1
                        11 May 2025 13: 13
                        And how many such cases were there? Are there statistics? Even if there were isolated cases, do you consider them absolute?
                      4. 0
                        11 May 2025 13: 27
                        Quote from Nesvoy
                        And how many such cases were there? Are there statistics? Even if there were isolated cases, do you consider them absolute?
                        In Ukraine, the Abrams has not shown itself at all. It burns just like all the other tanks. The survivability of our tanks is often discussed. About the Abrams - something is not heard.
            2. +2
              10 May 2025 14: 27
              The mine there has 6mm of armor. I hope no one was hurt.
            3. +1
              10 May 2025 20: 17
              The video of the tank explosion says absolutely nothing. In Afghanistan, it was common practice to melt explosives from unexploded bombs, and then place a bag of such explosives (20-30 kg) under an anti-tank mine. When such a mine exploded, the tank's bottom was blown out, and the turret flew far beyond 50 meters. It is not a fact that the tank explosion in the video is not the result of an explosion on such a mine.
    4. 0
      10 May 2025 15: 42
      In ancient times, when there were still people who thought that the Armata was not a waste of the budget, but a tank, all sorts of miraculous properties were attributed to it.

      Well, judging by everything, in all countries there is a real dance with tambourines around the order of new tanks, their modernization, understanding of the need and the concept of their use in new conditions. Not everything is clear to everyone and it looks like if not night, then evening.
  3. -5
    10 May 2025 05: 24
    It looks like a joke:
    The Arabs bought the latest helicopters from the USSR. They arrived in containers.
    They are in the hangars, assembling the first one. It turns out to be a tank. They disassemble it,
    They reread the instructions, assemble them - and it's a tank again.
    They are on the offensive, repeating everything point by point - a tank, and that's it.
    They call our engineer, so and so, the tank comes out.
    He says, lock me up for three days, I'll see what's going on.
    Of course, in three days the newest helicopter is ready, as requested.
    They have their eyes wide open:
    - How could you do that?
    And he tells them, did you read the instructions to the end?
    It is written here in Russian:
    "After assembly, carefully file."
  4. +2
    10 May 2025 07: 00
    40 tons is still not 70 tons of the latest Abrams, since they have already been made, they should at least saturate some units with what is already ready. And only then think further,
    and how will it turn out with the armored personnel carriers, they refused the 90s, appealing to the fact that the concept of exiting from the sides is outdated, and we will supposedly design a new one. They made a boomerang and here the infection is not in the piercing, they say it is too expensive and comes out with a surrogate burp in the form of 82A remained
  5. +1
    10 May 2025 08: 13
    Whether the "Booker" is really good or bad, it is worth at least testing it at the firing range with everything that both sides fight in the North-Eastern Military District with. Is 40 tons a lot or a little? Our T-90 weighs 46 tons, the T-90 "Breakthrough" 51 tons (from open sources). For an infantry fighting vehicle, 40 tons is a lot, for a tank it is normal. We also need to look at what armament the "Booker" has and what protection it has from everything that flies at it. What the Americans wanted is closest to our BMP-3. Both in weight and armament.
    1. +4
      10 May 2025 09: 18
      2S25 "Sprut-SD1" is the closest analogue. Well, again, if you hang armor, you get "Booker" laughing
      1. 0
        10 May 2025 12: 44
        Sprut SD is a self-propelled gun.
        And not a tank at all.
        1. +1
          10 May 2025 13: 02
          Yes, I know. "Booker" is a light tank.
          1. 0
            10 May 2025 14: 19
            no, you don't know, according to the official classification it's not a tank, a booker, it's an MPF ​​(Mobil Protected Firepower) Firepower protected by mobility, something like a support weapon, not for assaults in short
            1. +1
              10 May 2025 14: 21
              Is this a self-propelled gun?
            2. 0
              10 May 2025 14: 22
              This is not a howitzer, there is a tank gun there.
            3. 0
              10 May 2025 19: 54
              Quote: Graz
              MPF (Mobil Protected Firepower)
              That is, BMP
            4. 0
              10 May 2025 23: 27
              Quote: Graz
              no, you don't know, according to the official classification it's not a tank, a booker, it's an MPF ​​(Mobil Protected Firepower) Firepower protected by mobility, something like a support weapon, not for assaults in short

              Now a question from science starting with the letter "L" (logic): is the concept of "tank" included in the concept of "MPF"? Doesn't such a general definition as "Firepower protected by mobility" apply to a tank? And for an assault, you use a tank or shoot from a camouflaged position - these are already details of the battle.
        2. -1
          10 May 2025 13: 03
          BMP-3 is also a light tank.
          1. -2
            10 May 2025 13: 36
            BMP 3 is BMP 3.
            It can be used as a basis for making an excellent light tank. With good armor and balanced armament.
            But the Ministry of Defense just can’t bring itself to order R&D on this topic.
            1. 0
              10 May 2025 13: 39
              Why invent there is a T-55 "light tank"
              1. -1
                10 May 2025 14: 35
                It's old. If you make a light tank, then it's for infantry support. And there's a lot of electronic stuff needed there. Will it be possible to stuff everything into the old hull? And the gun loading also raises questions.
                1. 0
                  10 May 2025 15: 14
                  To be honest, I think the main striking force at the moment is the Niva with the drone that she brought to the strip and launched. The Niva itself went God knows where.
                  1. -1
                    10 May 2025 15: 20
                    This is relevant when one side cannot and the other does not want large-scale actions.
                    Everyone is happy with everything.
                    1. 0
                      10 May 2025 15: 25
                      Well, yes, all sorts of agreements and gestures of goodwill limit the impact on the enemy.
        3. 0
          10 May 2025 13: 24
          "If you read the inscription "buffalo" on an elephant's cage, don't believe your eyes" - one of Kozma Prutkov's aphorisms. wink
    2. 0
      10 May 2025 14: 16
      why look, everything is known, the Booker holds 30mm from the forehead, 14.5mm from the sides, why is the protection so weak with such weight, a question for the designers. I think I read that they made it on the basis of the BMP, and in the West they have large dimensions from the start
    3. -1
      10 May 2025 17: 49
      For an infantry fighting vehicle 40 tons is a lot, for a tank it’s normal.

      Interesting logic. A tank has a crew of 3 people, while an infantry fighting vehicle has 10. The question is, which vehicle needs better protection?
      1. +1
        10 May 2025 20: 03
        Quote: malyvalv
        For an infantry fighting vehicle 40 tons is a lot, for a tank it’s normal.

        Interesting logic. A tank has a crew of 3 people, while an infantry fighting vehicle has 10. The question is, which vehicle needs better protection?

        The best protection should be provided by the equipment that was created for tasks where it is necessary to be under direct fire from enemy guns.
        And the equipment that is only supposed to deliver the unit to the combat zone and support them with fire from its firearms must have armor that is anti-fragmentation and anti-gunfire, and not anti-projectile, otherwise it will turn into a slow, unwieldy barn that will be burned down along with the landing force by the same drones.
        1. -1
          11 May 2025 07: 20
          There was no direct enemy gunfire in this conflict from the start. Even when drones had not yet become the main striking force. Which didn't care if it was a fast barn or a slow one.
          1. 0
            11 May 2025 13: 52
            Quote: malyvalv
            There was no direct fire from enemy guns in this conflict from the start.
            One of those cases that, according to you, did not happen. https://rutube.ru/video/6ea7797c01fd540c61b49d013ebd3b79/?r=plemwd (lots of swearing)
            1. 0
              11 May 2025 14: 03
              You judge the whole war by one episode? Has anything like this happened again after the appearance of mass drones? Now it's not Alyosha who's heading out to meet us, but a whole squadron flying out.
              1. 0
                11 May 2025 23: 00
                Quote: malyvalv
                Can you judge the entire war based on one episode?
                That's what you said
                Quote: malyvalv
                Direct fire from enemy guns there was no conflict in this conflict from the start.
                It took me only five minutes to find a video that refutes your words. I can look for another episode of this war and prove that you are again, to put it mildly, mistaken.
                Quote: malyvalv
                Has anything like this happened again since the advent of mass drones?
                And you claim that this is not possible?
                1. 0
                  12 May 2025 09: 44
                  Another episode. Well, well. Anything can happen in war. There are even hand-to-hand fights with finishing off the enemy with a piece of slate. This is no reason to start training in handling slate at training grounds.
                  Almost all armored vehicles are destroyed by ATGMs and drones. That's a fact. And you go on talking about direct gunfire.
  6. +3
    10 May 2025 10: 01
    Once again, an initially impossible combination of requirements led to the project's failure. According to some, it was a squared T-72, a tank that would meet the threats of half a century ago, such as the 85-mm anti-tank missile or SPG-9. According to others, it was the Sprut-SD, which didn't take off for us either, being 100% tailored for a very exotic use scenario to the detriment of conventional scenarios.
    Different people and agencies interpret such stories either as “there is no need to look for a conspiracy where it can be explained by simple idiocy,” or as “there is no need to explain by idiocy where a conspiracy is possible.”
    I'm leaning towards the second option.
    In all countries and in all industries there are mechanisms that do not allow a stillborn concept to reach the point of adoption and series production: requirements analysis, exploratory R&D, concept approval, etc. And if stillborn concepts do reach the point of adoption time after time, I see this as an interest of the military-industrial complex and the decision-makers who have joined it. Some call this a rip-off, while others call it the preservation and development of the military-industrial complex's competencies.
    1. 0
      10 May 2025 22: 34
      Don't make things up. SPRUT didn't take off not because the concept was wrong, but because the Volgograd Tractor Plant collapsed. More precisely, the Volgograd Plant was collapsed by Gaidar and his fellow reformers. The destruction of the plant was then completed by the managers from Kurgan, who dragged a significant part of the production capacity to themselves.
  7. +1
    10 May 2025 10: 18
    The Americans could have received a tank (Abrams - self-propelled anti-tank gun), but they refused. This is good: there will be no tank for the blitzkrieg.
  8. 0
    10 May 2025 11: 01
    The inertia is that the author carefully avoids the problem of drones. laughing

    Airdroppability, cross-country ability, weight - comparing all of this made sense 30 years ago.

    Abrasms, Leopard, T-90, T-80, M113, BMP-3, M10.....
    THE DRONE IS ABSOLUTELY PURPLE. angry
    1. +1
      10 May 2025 12: 54
      Quote: Arzt
      THE DRONE IS ABSOLUTELY PURPLE

      But not to the frontline fighters. That's why the Russian Federation is sending masses of tanks to the SVO, not shying away from the T-62 and T-54
      1. 0
        10 May 2025 14: 26
        But not to the frontline fighters. That's why the Russian Federation is sending masses of tanks to the SVO, not shying away from the T-62 and T-54

        Russia sends tanks because they have them. But the soldiers on the front lines order something else. wink
        1. 0
          10 May 2025 14: 33
          Quote: Arzt
          Russia sends tanks because they have them. But the soldiers on the front lines order something else.

          So they resist, refuse tanks, and they are forced to give them to them?:))))
          1. 0
            10 May 2025 14: 53
            So they resist, refuse tanks, and they are forced to give them to them?:))))

            In principle, yes. The management is pressuring, demanding that they find a use, and they are trying. wink

            And it will be like this for a long time, several SVOs are needed, the lobby of Uralvagonzavod and the Kazan Tank School is very powerful. soldier

            Try to prove to them that everything they have dedicated their lives to is outdated. angry

            It's like shipbuilding and sailing ship captains in the late 19th century. hi
          2. -1
            10 May 2025 22: 02
            The case when a tank filled with explosives is sent to enemy positions is not at all a good thing. This is the use of a tank for its intended purpose.
    2. -2
      10 May 2025 16: 30
      Quote: Arzt
      The inertia is that the author carefully avoids the problem of drones. laughing

      Airdroppability, cross-country ability, weight - comparing all of this made sense 30 years ago.

      Abrasms, Leopard, T-90, T-80, M113, BMP-3, M10.....
      THE DRONE IS ABSOLUTELY PURPLE. angry

      No.
      It's just that some people need 1-2 drones, while others need 5-8-9. To nail them down tight.
      And not always a large number of drones are available, ready or in the air at the moment.
      Ours shot down a lot, but destroyed much less. Their enemies evacuated and restored them.
  9. 0
    10 May 2025 12: 48
    It is quite suitable against the Papuans. That is what it was counting on. But the Americans obviously lack the culture of saving weight in the design of equipment. They do not know how to do it cheaply, easily (in weight) and angrily. They know how to saw the budget no worse, if not better than ours.
    1. 0
      10 May 2025 13: 40
      This story has been going on for several decades. For example, in the second half of the 90s, the 80 mm Armored Gun System XM105, which had been developed since the 8s, almost became the new light tank of the US Army. It had a combat weight of 18 tons with armor of the 1st level of protection, 20 tons with armor of the 2nd level of protection, 23600 kg with armor of the 3rd level of protection.

      However, in 1996, the US Army cancelled the AGS program due to budget constraints and the M551 Sheridan airborne light tank was retired without a replacement.

      If you look at the AGS XM8, those Americans knew how to save weight. However, why did they know how, the M8 has not died yet. In the first photo, the AGS XM8 with level 1994 armor in 8. In the second photo, the M2019 at the AUSA Global exhibition in XNUMX. At least now in series.
  10. -1
    10 May 2025 13: 52
    But there is a problem with its use on the ground. It was voiced in Western media rather dryly: 8 of 11 bridges in Fort Campbell (one of the military bases where the Bookers are supposed to arrive) cannot withstand the weight of the machine.

    By the way, this is a pebble in the garden of our supporters of the "cast iron BMP" sect. Why is a 40-ton BMP needed, which is problematic to deliver even to the LBP, no one understands.
    1. +2
      10 May 2025 22: 39
      A "cast iron" heavy IFV is definitely needed for assault operations and joint operations with tanks. The only question is the ratio of heavy and light IFVs, both are needed. Until they start forcing the Dnieper or other rivers, a heavy IFV is more necessary.
    2. +2
      11 May 2025 07: 38
      By the way, this is a pebble in the garden of our supporters of the "cast iron BMP" sect. Why is a 40-ton BMP needed, which is problematic to deliver even to the LBP, no one understands.

      Then there will be no domestic tanks either
      T-72B3 - 46,5 tons
      T-90M - 51 tons
      T-80BVM - 46 tons
      1. -2
        11 May 2025 13: 29
        Quote: spektr9
        Then there will be no domestic tanks either

        That's the point, because today tanks are used mainly as self-propelled guns, for firing from closed positions. On LBS, they are burned like matches. So how do you propose to use your "cast iron BMPs"? To stand next to a tank at an artillery position?
        1. 0
          11 May 2025 13: 35
          So how do you propose to use your "cast iron BMPs"?

          As in the rest of the normal world, to transport troops and use for fire support, which is what the Ukrainian Armed Forces are doing now with Western equipment... Why do we need infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers that can be pierced with a finger is completely unclear, to cosplay the jihad of ISIS vehicles, so then it would be cheaper to buy used Toyotas and put KPVT or ZU-23 on them
          1. 0
            11 May 2025 13: 40
            Quote: spektr9
            As in the rest of the normal world, transport troops and use for fire support

            Today's infantry fighting vehicles are enough to transport troops, and such a vehicle has enough armor to protect it from bullets and shrapnel. But there are no huge limitations on bridges or soft soils. But as an assault vehicle, which requires anti-projectile armor in the front, even a full-fledged tank is not enough these days.
            1. -1
              11 May 2025 13: 50
              Today's infantry fighting vehicles are sufficient for transporting troops; such a vehicle has sufficient armor against bullets and shrapnel.

              Why does it need protection from bullets and shrapnel? The paratroopers don't climb under the armor of the BMP-1 or BMP-2 because it's pointless, because at best it will stop a bullet from an AKM. They don't climb under the BMP-3 because pretending to be an acrobat under enemy fire is the same as putting a bullet in your head...

              . But there are no huge restrictions on the same bridges or weak soils

              But here's the paradox: BMPs still try to stick to normal roads, and not crawl along forest paths with weak soils, and of course, no one in their right mind would send one BMP with infantry to attack across a dilapidated wooden bridge without the support of heavy equipment.

              But as an assault vehicle, which requires anti-projectile armor in the front, nowadays even a full-fledged tank is not enough.

              A heavy infantry fighting vehicle is not an assault vehicle, it is an infantry fighting vehicle that can adequately deliver infantry to the battlefield without having that infantry riddled to hell along the way by large-caliber machine guns on or in a cardboard infantry fighting vehicle.
              1. 0
                11 May 2025 14: 24
                Quote: spektr9
                Why does it need protection from bullets and shrapnel? In the BMP-1, BMP-2, the landing force does not climb under the armor because it is pointless

                Well, that is. In general, an infantry fighting vehicle is not needed because it is “pointless”? wassat
                Quote: spektr9
                this is an infantry fighting vehicle that can adequately deliver infantry to the battlefield without having that infantry riddled to hell by heavy machine guns along the way

                There should be no enemy heavy machine guns in your rear, otherwise it would probably be someone else's rear. wassat

                Think with your head..
                1. -1
                  11 May 2025 18: 00
                  Well, that is. In general, an infantry fighting vehicle is not needed because it is “pointless”?

                  If your BMP can be penetrated with a little finger, what's the point of it?
                  Tell me her sacred secret?
                  There should be no enemy heavy machine guns in your rear, otherwise it would probably be someone else's rear.

                  Why do you need to travel in an infantry fighting vehicle in your rear? That's what my dear friend PAZik is for


                  Think with your head..

                  I'm thinking about it, and your reasoning completely freaks me out...
                  1. 0
                    11 May 2025 20: 27
                    Quote: spektr9
                    If your BMP can be penetrated with a little finger, what's the point of it?
                    Tell me her sacred secret?

                    Look for this secret in your head. You repeat some ridiculous cliches that the sectarians themselves came up with. The only machine gun that can penetrate an infantry fighting vehicle is the KPVT, and only at close range in the side. Are NATO making sub-caliber rounds for their 25-30 mm guns out of boredom? It can't be penetrated because it's a regular shell. If you compare your finger with APFSDS in terms of armor penetration, then ok. Keep up the good work. laughing
                    1. 0
                      12 May 2025 17: 01
                      The only machine gun that can penetrate an infantry fighting vehicle is the KPVT.

                      Yes, we look at the performance characteristics and see a fig, the BMP1/2 penetrates everything above 7.62 into the side... Well, in general, complete illiteracy is the main side of the cardboard BMP lovers hi
                      As I like to say, my dear friend, drive you into a BMP-2 and give it a burst from a cliff, and let all that remains after that continue to prove the effectiveness of cardboard
                      1. 0
                        12 May 2025 21: 57
                        Quote: spektr9
                        Yes, we look at the performance characteristics and see a fig, the BMP1/2 penetrates the side of everything above 7.62 ...

                        Everything "above 7.62" is 12.7 DShK which definitely does not penetrate and KPVT which I mentioned and which is only found on armored vehicles.. And is it because of this one KPV that you raised such a fuss here? Like there is no life without armor from KPVT? And that there were many such terrible cases, the destruction of a column of infantry fighting vehicles by one KPV? wassat
  11. 0
    10 May 2025 22: 47
    The Americans have a perfectly serviceable 22-ton Stingray, but they are still running around with this misunderstanding...
  12. 0
    10 May 2025 23: 28
    Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich
    Don't make things up. SPRUT didn't take off not because the concept was wrong, but because the Volgograd Tractor Plant went down.

    Don't make things up (C). Volgograd's BMD-4, BTR-MD and Sprut-SD were unified with the BMP-3 and adapted to the surviving production site. But they decided to produce the first two in hundreds, and the third - not.
    1. 0
      11 May 2025 20: 50
      Again you are falsifying the facts. BMD and BMP-3 are not unified. The problem is the lack of free production capacity for chassis production.
      1. 0
        11 May 2025 21: 39
        Again you are falsifying the facts (C). Nodal unification is not complete, but it is still unification.

        Please explain how the production capacities for the BMD-4M and BTR-MDM chassis differ from those for the Sprut? It seems to me that they do not differ in any particular way. And these capacities are loaded by the BMD+BTR at 100%, and by Sprut at zero.
  13. -1
    11 May 2025 09: 43
    Booker is like Bradley with a big gun.
    Bradley is doing well.
    Drones hit them, true, as they hit any tank, but other than that, the survivability turned out to be decent. And the accuracy of fire is high.
    Is a Bradley with a large caliber necessary? Even a small Bradley gun with uranium shooters disables MBTs quite effectively.