It's time to stop admiring Western armored vehicles

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It's time to stop admiring Western armored vehicles


Difficulties of perception


The dynamics of the attitude of experts and bloggers to the Western armored vehicles fighting on the side of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has undergone several evolutions. Initially, the mood was literally one of self-indulgence. Like, now we will show the NATO menagerie what a pound of trouble is. Attentive readers immediately sensed a catch in such rhetoric, and not in vain.



Over time, fairly balanced journalistic materials appeared, convincingly proving that NATO Tanks and BMPs will only be good when used en masse on the battlefield. However, like any other weapon. For obvious reasons, Ukraine did not have thousands or even hundreds of the vaunted Abrams and Bradley, Leopard and Marder. Any tank, even a completely outdated one, is, first of all, a tank capable of causing a lot of trouble with its tracks and causing inconvenience with its main caliber. Not much is needed for this - competent tactics of use, an experienced crew and timely maintenance. Therefore, even the few Abrams in Ukraine are deadly, albeit capricious, combat vehicles.

The enemy should not be underestimated - this can cost a lot. But it is not worth overestimating either. Now we are witnessing a certain rollback of public opinion regarding the perfection of Western armored vehicles. It is formed from several sources at once. For example, here is a report "Results of research tests of the IFV "Bradley" M2A2 ODS SA (USA)", allegedly published in the Information and Technical Bulletin "Application (operation) of weapons, military and special equipment in a special military operation", distributed by the GABTU. With a high degree of probability, we can state that this is a fake, replete with inaccuracies and assumptions. But it clearly had its effect - the enemy promoted the "report" as best they could and many believed it. The sediment, as they say, remained. The authors did not particularly bother themselves and simply collected together the shortcomings of the BMP-3 and the strengths of the Bradley.




Gradually, thoughtful analytical materials describing the behavior of Western armored vehicles in the SVO began to appear in the domestic press. For example, “A little about the enemy’s armored vehicles… How Western armored vehicles performed in the SVO fields.” The article was published in the magazine “Obozrenie Armii i fleet» in the first issue of the current year. Author – Alexander Timokhin. The material turned out to be truly impressive. Infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers of NATO countries are described here as formidable combat vehicles. Let's not argue with the author and his point of view, but rather talk about the big and eternal.

Russia vs NATO


It is worth mentioning right away that no one is going to argue with the perfection of Western armored vehicles. More precisely, with perfection within strictly defined boundaries. Some are better in armament, some in armor protection, but almost all are inferior in mobility. For example, many blame the domestic military for the requirements for airborne vehicles. They must have powerful weapons, be able to float and descend from the sky with parachutes. At the same time, it would also be desirable to have adequate armor protection. A very difficult combination.

In the context of the conflict in Ukraine, the requirements for buoyancy and airborne capability seem redundant. There is no clear answer to the first question – in a number of cases, quickly overcoming a water obstacle can indeed ensure success on the battlefield. The main thing is that the equipment is in good working order, the enemy’s attention is diverted from the crossing point, and the water obstacle itself meets the requirements.

The ability of the Airborne Forces equipment to drop from the sky into battle can also be used in operations at the operational-tactical level in Ukraine. It is clear that no one will drop BMD-4 and Rakushkas over the Kharkov region - the planes will be destroyed on the approach. But no one forbids the rapid transfer of the Airborne Forces strike group closer to the front. The Il-76 can easily work from the air in the direction of the main attack, outside the reach zone Defense enemy - the group will travel the rest of the way on the ground. As a result, airborne units on armor can very quickly end up where they were least expected. And arrive at the contact line even from beyond the Urals.

Nobody says that such techniques will become widespread, but as a possible scenario it is quite acceptable. What is all this for? Because the apparent shortcomings of domestic armored vehicles may well turn out to be a significant advantage. The main thing is to find the appropriate conditions for use.

The logic of comparing Russian and NATO equipment "head-on", which the authors are guilty of, is completely wrong. Let us give a corresponding example from stories. Comparison of the German Pz.Kpfw. VI Ausf. H Tiger and the Soviet IS-2 did not always end with the latter having an advantage. Our vehicle had a powerful gun and relatively good armor, while the German had greater mobility and sophisticated observation devices. However, these tanks rarely clashed on the battlefield. The numerical disproportion also played a role – the Reich produced only 1350 Tigers, while Tankograd made almost 2 IS-3400s. And whose side had the advantage in the end?

The same can be said about the T-34-85 medium tank and the German Pz.Kpfw. V Panther. Was there at least one parameter by which the T-34 was head and shoulders above the German? None. But the conclusion is obvious – the conceptual winner was the T-1. Moreover, the French and even the Germans themselves had long been guided by the Soviet school of tank building. The AMX and Leopard XNUMX series were built under the great influence of the combat experience of the USSR.






Therefore, when the authors quite rightly describe the tactical and technical advantages of NATO military equipment in Ukraine, several points should be remembered.

First, to realize the said advantage, at least parity in numbers with the opposing side is necessary. When a hundred Russian BMP-3s are confronted by a hundred Bradleys, then we can talk about a balance of forces. According to the latest data, ATGMs and other anti-tank weapons are the cause of the incapacitation of combat equipment in only 6 percent of cases. In most cases, armor is destroyed by FPV, and not by tanks or "super-precise" Bofors and Bushmaster guns.

By the way, about the heavy CV90 IFV, which some consider to have very thick armor. The first captured vehicle was hit by a regular grenade launcher. Not even an ATGM or FPV. And in the frontal projection. How does this fit in with the "undeniable" advantages of NATO equipment in armor protection?

Secondly, the reader desperately needs expert calculations with the results of real tests of captured equipment. At the NII-38 proving ground, for example. If they are not available or are not available to the authors, then how can the accuracy of the guns, armor penetration and armor damage be compared? As a result, comments appear:

“There is no access to Ukrainian statistics today, but there is American statistics, and it clearly shows that a Bradley can hit even a human figure with a direct hit from a distance of more than one kilometer from this gun; similar cases were recorded during the American invasion of Iraq in 2003.”

This is an excerpt from the above-mentioned article "A little about the enemy's armored vehicles... How Western armored vehicles performed on the fields of the SVO." You know, if you put together the enthusiastic reviews of Russian soldiers about the BMP-3, the vehicle will shine with its advantages in a completely different light. And the Bredley and Marder will not hold a candle to it.

The third aspect that cannot go unmentioned. How many of the Swedish, German and US military-industrial complexes are actually ready to produce the vaunted IFVs? For reference: the CV-90 IFV has been produced in quantities of about 1993 vehicles every twelve months since 36. On average, of course. The German Puma IFV (which experts say will probably “beat” the BMP-3) has been produced in the amount of 350 vehicles in ten years. The Bradley has not been produced at all since 1989, although almost 10 thousand combat vehicles have been produced.

The conflict in Ukraine has shown that success on the battlefield requires a lot of armor and ammunition. NATO would never be able to satisfy the appetites of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, simply because mass production of such expensive equipment would drain the entire defense budget. The CV-90, for example, costs as much as a good tank – about 9 million euros. The combat vehicles that some authors admire so much are actually equipment of extreme parameters, not intended for mass warfare. And here a palliative solution appeared – drones-kamikaze. Yes, it was precisely the lack of NATO weapons that forced the Ukrainians to change their strategy, relying on completely different technologies. Very simple, mind you, and very cheap.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. +40
    8 May 2025 04: 12
    For comparison, it would be a good idea for the author to indicate the approximate amount of equipment produced by our military-industrial complex.
    Specifically new, and not from the USSR reserves.
    1. +23
      8 May 2025 05: 15
      It would be nice to indicate the approximate amount of equipment produced by our military-industrial complex.

      For some reason, I immediately remembered O. Bender’s catchphrase: “Maybe you also want the keys to the apartment where the money is?”
      We don't even name the number of tanks in the next batch delivered to the front... The same goes for all other types of military equipment. Secrecy is our trump card at all times. Even where there is nothing to hide. Glasnost is a very nasty word in our lexicon. One figure tried to play with it and immediately lost the country.
      1. -1
        8 May 2025 07: 39
        You can also refer to the enemy’s data; they claim that Uralmash produces 250 tanks per year.
        1. +7
          8 May 2025 10: 54
          That's exactly what they PRODUCE. Both Kurgan and Volgograd PRODUCE. The news regularly writes about sending them to the troops. And Western factories haven't produced anything for 10 years, they only publish plans that some small but proud European country ordered a dozen leopards.
        2. +9
          8 May 2025 16: 58
          Uralmash produces 250 tanks per year.

          Uralmash and Uralvagonzavod are even in different cities.
          The peak of UVZ production, oddly enough, came during the reign of the hunchback, and amounted to about 2000 vehicles per year.
        3. +4
          8 May 2025 17: 15
          I read in the news that UVZ reactivated the second line of the tank conveyor back in 22. I think they can easily ship a battalion set (41 vehicles) per quarter. Well, and not Uralmash, but UVZ.
      2. -3
        8 May 2025 12: 09
        We don't even name the number of tanks in the next batch delivered to the front.

        What can you call them? They are transported openly on railway platforms, across “half the country,” and you can easily find and count the videos.
        1. +3
          9 May 2025 05: 30
          They are bringing in modernized T-72s, which were taken out of the GDR at one time. If you pay attention, there is little "new" equipment in the SVO. Well, maybe the aircraft fleet is a little rejuvenated. Basically, everything is from the late 80s, early 90s. And there is still a lot of stuff in the warehouses.
    2. +5
      8 May 2025 05: 20
      Who will put state secrets in the public domain for you?
      1. +12
        8 May 2025 07: 40
        This is a secret for you and me, but hardly for the enemy.
      2. +8
        8 May 2025 10: 54
        Quote: shinobi
        Who will put state secrets in the public domain for you?

        However, there is also information in the Russian segment of the Internet that currently about 90 T-300M tanks are produced per year... i.e. one tank per day, approximately!
      3. -3
        8 May 2025 12: 12
        Who will put state secrets in the public domain for you?

        What state secret? To find out how much is produced, you can easily search for videos of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, etc. being transported. They are transported openly on railway platforms. Recently, a batch of BMP-3s was transferred, a video with a railway train can be found and counted. Nothing complicated, if you have the desire and time.
    3. +7
      8 May 2025 10: 03
      This has never happened, otherwise they would have started the war from a "clean slate" - there were always pre-war reserves and the nuance in who managed to accumulate them and use them wisely. And yes - the complexity of production and cost are an important factor. I always proved this, and they gave me minuses and proved that "nonsense" is super)))
  3. 0
    8 May 2025 04: 15
    The infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers of NATO countries are described here as formidable combat vehicles. Let's not argue with the author and his point of view, but rather talk about something big and eternal.

    But Alexander Timokhin did not write anything scary or strange. Take the memoirs of WWII participants and you will learn a lot of interesting things about the performance characteristics of German tanks, foreign aircraft (for example)...
    Speaking about the course of the SVO and the defeat of enemy armored vehicles in it, we must not forget that the basis of the defeat is not so much the perfect Russian weapons, but the unrivaled, unparalleled heroism of the Russian army, before which we, the “armchair experts”, must get down on our knees and (sometimes) just shut up in time.
    This is what is great and eternal!
    1. +30
      8 May 2025 04: 23
      But heroism should not replace professionalism. No wars are won by shouting "Hurray".
      1. -2
        8 May 2025 04: 28
        Quote: Serjy
        But heroism should not replace professionalism.

        And who argues? Defending the homeland is a profession...
      2. 0
        8 May 2025 13: 59
        Quote: Serjy
        Heroism should not replace professionalism.

        Professionalism usually consists of a systematic approach to analyzing the problem and solving it. This means that any task must be approached taking into account all the influencing factors. These include the performance characteristics of the model, the possibility of increasing its quantity taking into account production resources, the possibility of mastering it by troops, maintainability, and much more. Analyzing the tank fleet of the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War, it is not at all for nothing that the T-34 was produced until the end of the war despite the presence of a lot of outdated solutions and having a ready-made project for a more advanced machine.
      3. 0
        8 May 2025 14: 36
        And who said that heroism is just shouting "Hurray"? I will not give a definition of the concept of heroism. Everyone can understand it in their own way. It is your right to understand it as "just shouting "Hurray!" The post you commented on was about the Great Patriotic War. The concept of professionalism refers to professional military personnel, of whom there was a minority in the multi-million Red Army. Most of the defenders of the Motherland joined the Red Army by conscription and were not military by profession. Of course, over the years of the Great Patriotic War, many became the owners of real mastery in their temporary military professions. Therefore, when talking about the soldiers of the Great Patriotic War, it is better to talk not about professionalism, but about military skill.
        1. -9
          8 May 2025 15: 58
          What profound conclusions of political informants. What professionalism are we talking about? Horse marshals destroyed all the equipment and most of the army with complete superiority over the enemy, using the doctrine of little bloodshed and war on foreign territory under the threat of execution and hatred of the "Leader", who did not want to fight in 41?
          1. +2
            9 May 2025 09: 29
            And it was not for nothing that the leader did not want to fight in 41. The Red Army was rearming, and this was not the best time for war. After all, the legendary Katyushas, ​​T-34s, automatic weapons, new aircraft, etc. were accepted into service literally just before the war and had not yet been put into production. And, perhaps, Germany also took this into account when it decided to attack, leaving England "for later."
      4. -1
        9 May 2025 06: 10
        No wars are won simply by shouting "Hurray".

        I completely agree, well said.
        A cry of "hurray" does not defeat the enemy and does not accomplish combat missions.
        But even a stone in your hand - yes, the main thing is to know how and be able to throw it correctly at the enemy at the right moment.
      5. +1
        9 May 2025 21: 24
        But heroism should not replace professionalism.

        That's right! Professionalism in the Red Army was fully revealed two years after the war began. That's when the victories began.
    2. +10
      8 May 2025 07: 36
      Quote: yuriy55
      should get on their knees and (sometimes) just shut up in time.

      We are not in Ukraine. If you want to kneel, kneel yourself.
      1. -13
        8 May 2025 08: 22
        Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
        We are not in Ukraine. If you want to kneel, kneel yourself.

        What does your Ukraine have to do with this? And what have you decided to show off here? You don't give a damn that while you live well, someone gives their health and life for you?
        Wouldn't you like to bow to the Russian soldiers?
        1. +4
          8 May 2025 09: 01
          Quote: yuriy55
          What does your Ukraine have to do with this? And what did you decide to show off here?

          Are you suggesting that we kneel like the Khinzir? Are you out of your mind? Maybe you'll suggest that schoolchildren kneel as well?
          1. -10
            8 May 2025 09: 17
            Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
            Are you suggesting that we kneel like the Khinzir?

            I propose to respect the bravery of Russian soldiers. Like this:
            1. +16
              8 May 2025 09: 22
              Quote: yuriy55
              I propose to respect the bravery of Russian soldiers. Like this:

              Show a chronicle, for example, when Soviet citizens greeted Red Army soldiers returning from World War II on their knees. Where did you see people kneeling before the heroes of the Soviet Union?
              1. +1
                8 May 2025 23: 13
                Show a chronicle, for example, of when Soviet citizens knelt down to greet Red Army soldiers returning from World War II.

                Actually, your pictures clearly show a funeral.
              2. -1
                9 May 2025 07: 24
                Quote: Aristarkh Verkhozin
                Show a chronicle, for example, when Soviet citizens greeted Red Army soldiers returning from World War II on their knees. Where did you see people kneeling before the heroes of the Soviet Union?

                You can piss in your eyes, it's all the same - dew... How many fools have gathered on the site, waiters and just lackeys... This is for you, for eternal memory:
                Frontline footage sometimes makes your heart clench. Emotions overwhelm you when you see a picture like this. Footage of the week. A soldier, despite a serious injury, kneels before the memory of those who died in battles for the Motherland at the Eternal Flame in the Kremlin's Alexander Garden. He is strong in spirit, but his legs... Every step is difficult.

                https://www.1tv.ru/news/2025-01-12/497947-boets_nesmotrya_na_tyazheloe_ranenie_preklonyaet_koleno_pered_pamyatyu_pavshih_v_boyah_za_rodinu
      2. +6
        8 May 2025 09: 06
        It's not he and Putin who have been rising from their knees for 25 years. They bow their heads before the dead, kneel before the banner.
    3. -1
      9 May 2025 06: 06
      the basis of the defeat was not so much the perfect Russian weapons, but the unrivaled, unparalleled heroism of the Russian army

      And again we reduce everything to the tables of the technical characteristics of conventional "tanks" that are understandable to any person and to the euphemerally eternal immaterial "spirit" Russian person.
      And about the key thing in any war - skill forget. Here you need to think, analyze actions a lot, read all sorts of regulations and housing regulations.
      You can defeat an army of cowards if you drill them firmly and, like Pavlov's dog, simply teach them to obey silently and instantly. correct orders, you can win by fighting with rusty AKMs and homemade bombs if you understand your own and your enemy's strengths and weaknesses and are able to competently apply this knowledge and realize your capabilities.
      This is what is great and eternal!

      Unfortunately, "wanting" to do something does not do anything. You can believe in your invincibility and "heroism" as much as you want, but fighting is work and craft, and they, alas, are more than material and tangible.
  4. +2
    8 May 2025 04: 23
    Recently watched a video https://t.me/lost_armour/5150. A tracked M113 armored personnel carrier stops and starts to open the ramp. And it doesn't open in one moment. Our KVN drone flies beautifully into an opening as wide as a car and the entire landing party is in mincemeat. I also came across a video of a grenade being dropped from above into the opening ramp, but there was a bit of luck and the grenade didn't fly in, but a bit to the side.
    That is, the ramp seems to be a good thing, but in modern conditions of flying inside a drone, it is somehow not quite right, and something new needs to be invented.
    1. +6
      8 May 2025 04: 56
      It seems like it was previously believed that the landing force should not dismount under fire. In general, if the commanders of the Second World War were in the ranks now, they would probably have placed a squad of soldiers with Berdan rifles around each armor so that they could shoot down all the drones, as they used to shoot down all the Panzerfausters.
    2. +24
      8 May 2025 05: 22
      That is, the ramp seems to be a good thing, but in modern conditions of flying inside a drone,

      It is much easier for drones to fly into the upward-opening doors for the troops to exit the BMP-3 than into the open ramp of the Bradley...
      1. +2
        8 May 2025 15: 14
        No, it's not easier to fly in. And even with a vertical drop, the projection of the BMP-3's exit tunnel is several times smaller than the projection of the Bradley's open ramp.
      2. +1
        10 May 2025 09: 54
        The BMP-3 has a tunnel (which has many complaints about the inconvenience of disembarking) that you have to try hard to fly into it.
    3. -3
      8 May 2025 09: 07
      Well, if a drone flies into the side of the BTR 80, the landing force will remain alive.
    4. +1
      8 May 2025 10: 07
      It can be added that the ramp has a habit of jamming when hit hard in the hull. And then, you have to squeeze through a narrow door - a fun activity in full gear under enemy fire)))
      1. +3
        8 May 2025 18: 10
        Yes. There were videos of Ukrainian infantrymen trying to open a jammed ramp. And the emergency door was not working well either. It was not opening quickly. It was also skewed, or something.
        1. +1
          10 May 2025 09: 56
          It is the skew that occurs. That is, if the ramp has not started to open, then everything is fine, but under the slope there are problems.
    5. +10
      8 May 2025 10: 52
      What conclusion should we draw from your example? That a ramp and ease of loading and unloading are not needed? Are you suggesting that all the doors in the APC be welded shut and one tiny hatch in the bottom be used?
      1. 0
        8 May 2025 19: 18
        It's too early to draw conclusions, there's not enough information for statistics. However, some have already done so)))
        1. +1
          10 May 2025 09: 52
          That's right. It's too early to draw conclusions. But it's definitely not worth deifying the ramp and Western tech genius (not a complaint to you). If there really are questions about the buoyancy of everything and everyone. Then regarding the ramp, what reasons did the USSR have for not making it?
          1. +1
            10 May 2025 10: 42
            I believe that the ability to swim, even with preliminary training, terrain and the equipment itself - this is necessary and important and should not be abandoned. It was simply not needed in the SVO, but this is not the last war.
      2. 0
        10 May 2025 09: 57
        As funny as it may sound, the designers may well come up with a huge landing hatch in the bottom. As they say, "remember this comment!" )))
    6. +4
      8 May 2025 12: 28
      Quote: Witcher
      That is, the ramp seems to be a good thing, but in modern conditions of flying inside a drone, it is somehow not quite right, and something new needs to be invented.

      For example, opening the ramp quickly. laughing
      1. +1
        10 May 2025 09: 47
        To be honest, my first thought was that the ramp should be a 2-leaf one. One part (the smaller one) opens up, the second down.
        1. 0
          10 May 2025 14: 25
          Quote: Witcher
          To be honest, my first thought was that the ramp should be a 2-leaf one. One part (the smaller one) opens up, the second down.

          The Chinese simply hung a large door on their ZBD-04 and didn’t bother. smile
      2. 0
        10 May 2025 10: 42
        So FVP flies fast - shall we compete?)))
        1. 0
          10 May 2025 14: 30
          Quote: TermNachTER
          So FVP flies fast - shall we compete?)))

          Competing in speed with a projectile is a bad thing. However, the brake ramp is also clearly a stupid decision, it should have been made not to lower but simply to fold back when necessary, with a brake like a closer at the end of the stroke. Fast disembarkation is very good for health. laughing
    7. -1
      8 May 2025 22: 12
      I watched a similar video from the opposite side. The BTR-82 stops, the cat hole opens, and a drone flies in.
      1. 0
        10 May 2025 09: 48
        but you agree it is more difficult to fly into a cat hole?. And by the way, why only from the opposite side. The Ukrainian side uses Soviet armored personnel carriers up to the Romanian modification of the BTR-60.
      2. +2
        10 May 2025 16: 21
        Well, then post the video here - we'll watch it together
  5. +4
    8 May 2025 04: 36
    A fanatical "Ukrainian" sectarian told me about the intention to use UAVs en masse in the war with the Russians back in 1991. The enemy had been preparing for decades. This is news for our military, thrown from peaceful life into the fire of a real war of extermination. The Armed Forces should be like a fighting dog, trained and experienced. Suvorov described what life in the barracks leads to. And there are a lot of jokes about generals inspecting the barracks, and they all scream about the incompetence of the troops. By the way, few in the West will give even a solid 25% that the Russians will decide to use nuclear weapons against them if they bait the country with battles that tear apart their puppets on different fronts. Their dream, as has already been voiced, is to walk with their iron over a corpse drained of blood by war by 2027-30. This is by the way about "negotiations", only to press until the end, without capitulation, zeroing out NATO.
    1. +4
      8 May 2025 17: 08
      He told me about the intention to use UAVs en masse in the war with the Russians back in 1991

      It is unlikely that he meant what is currently used.
      In 1991, a digital camera was exotic. Even before 2000.
      It was digital video that made FPV possible.
      1. -4
        8 May 2025 21: 39
        He did not go into details. It is more important to accept that the 3rd World War is already going against us and will not end in peace, since an 18-year-old Jewish Bandera supporter was already gushing with recipes for revenge against the Russians, knowledge about the preparation and the head of the sectarian juntas, Yermak.
      2. 0
        8 May 2025 23: 41
        In 1991, a digital camera was exotic. Even before 2000.


        For our senile and brilliant strategists it is still exotic. Unnecessary exotic for the Russian soldier. Just as unnecessary as a thermal imager, and night vision devices, and so on.
    2. +1
      9 May 2025 10: 05
      I agree about capitulation, but we won't be able to zero out NATO weapons even if we wanted to. Although they complain that they've exhausted their reserves, they're actively increasing production, and Russia's resources are significantly inferior to those of Europe + the US.
      The only way we can stop the "Drang nach Osten" is by demonstrating uncompromising determination to destroy the enemy. Without miners, "gestures of goodwill" and the like. That the only acceptable result is the defeat and capitulation of the enemy.
      1. 0
        9 May 2025 20: 43
        The goal is not just to pull NATO into one point on the map to exhaust its potential, but to prevent the development of a situation of stretching/opening new hotbeds of conflict. This goal has been achieved for now, and I agree with the rest. The West now has a tough choice, they understand that they have broken their teeth, and they themselves, with a collapsing economy, have missed the time to enter the war.
  6. +7
    8 May 2025 04: 48
    The authors didn't bother too much and simply put together the shortcomings of the BMP-3 and the strengths of the Bradley.

    Does the BMP-3 have any advantages? The buoyancy did not show itself in any way, and even turned out to be harmful. The 100-mm gun, which is often considered a plus, is also one of the main disadvantages, significantly reducing the chance of survival of the vehicle and crew. Even at a relatively snotty and unconscious age, when I first saw this vehicle on TV, the idea of ​​placing a tank-mounted gun and ammunition for it in an aluminum box, pierced with a machine gun, seemed dubious.
    The Bradley may be heavy, expensive, even in mass production, with a questionable ramp that can easily kill the crew if it jams, but it managed to maintain a balance between protection, mobility and firepower.
    The BMP-3 in the "Manul" variant could have become something similar, but so far little has been heard about it.
    1. +5
      8 May 2025 11: 42
      Well, you don't need to take 100mm shells for an assault. But the 100mm gun itself is a mobile mortar for each squad!
      1. +1
        8 May 2025 23: 44
        There would be no questions if the BMP-3 had a human layout. Indeed, 100mm OFS can be omitted from the mandatory stowage, and issued directly for a specific purpose. It would be a kind of ersatz light tank with the ability to transport infantry. Questions only about the layout.
    2. +7
      8 May 2025 12: 11
      Quote: Serjy
      shot through with a machine gun seemed questionable.

      In fact, the Troika is protected from heavy machine gun fire on the side.
      Quote: Serjy
      it managed to maintain a balance between protection, mobility and firepower

      There is no balance. 25mm has a mediocre high-explosive fragmentation effect. The same is with protection - even in the memorable "report" from the thin hatch, the three with KDZ had equal protection in the sides compared to the Bradley with DZ.

      Not to mention that no one forces you to carry 100mm stowage during assaults. But the vehicle, due to its armament, can support its personnel not only during an assault.
      1. 0
        8 May 2025 21: 40
        Only a three with a KDZ is a real rarity.
        1. +4
          8 May 2025 21: 43
          Quote: CTABEP
          Only a three with a KDZ is a real rarity.

          KDZ is a set of additional protection, not a dynamic. And there are plenty of photos of Troikas (and old Kopeks and Deucekas). And Troikas now come from the factory with KDZ.
          But why they don’t install dynamic or non-explosive DZ - that’s the biggest question, and not “is the BMP-3 better/worse than the Bradley”.
    3. +7
      8 May 2025 13: 41
      The three is more mobile than the Bradley. In the current war, it is no less important a quality than additional armor.
      And the ability to use it as a mortar without involving additional artillery immediately before the assault.
      Buoyancy manifests itself in the fact that the enemy is forced to build fortifications even on the banks of rivers. And keep some kind of composition there.
    4. +8
      8 May 2025 13: 53
      Does the BMP-3 have any advantages?

      Of course there is. It is more versatile. Bradlya is an excellent IFV, and ours is a light tank, an IFV, a floating craft and a self-propelled mortar.
      Well, and the traditional features of Soviet technology - price, low silhouette and small armor volume.
      Any general or higher will tell you that the BMP is much better than the Bradley. But a motorized rifleman may have a slightly different opinion.
    5. +3
      9 May 2025 13: 47
      Quote: Serjy
      Does the BMP-3 have any advantages?

      There are many advantages.
      Quote: Serjy
      Buoyancy

      Buoyancy forces the enemy to maintain significant forces along water obstacles to counter a possible landing of troops.
      100 mm cannon

      This weapon, when firing at an elevated trajectory, allows you to place shells in an enemy trench. For comparison, the 25-mm Bradley gun does not allow you to destroy infantry in a trench.
      Quote: Serjy
      pierced by a machine gun

      Bradley ATGMs can be penetrated even with a machine gun, that's why they don't even install them
      Quote: Serjy
      between security

      The Bradley's protection is unsatisfactory: ATGMs or FPVs can hit it from any angle.
      Quote: Serjy
      mobility

      It's even worse here, the Bradley performed poorly on soft soils.
      Quote: Serjy
      firepower

      The 25mm "hole punch" is designed to defeat lightly armored targets, but how often does one encounter such a target? After all, the main task of the BMP is to support its infantry, and the main enemy is the enemy infantry. And then it turns out that the 25mm shell has a very weak fragmentation and high-explosive effect, and cannot destroy infantry in a trench at all.
  7. +13
    8 May 2025 04: 54
    Well, the author clearly doesn't understand hardware. Well, first of all, the Germans made more heavy tanks (we're not talking about the KV). The Panther is a heavy tank and it's not correct to compare it with the T3485. And from the point of view of technical perfection and thoughtfulness of the design, it's completely different. When analyzing and comparing weapons with the West (these are airplanes, tanks, etc.), you need to understand that we are, in principle, lagging behind in mechanical engineering (ships and machine tools are included and everything else in the broad sense of the word). And we are lagging behind because we became an urban civilization only by the eighties. And the West did so at the beginning of the twentieth century. And this includes the development of technical culture, including decision-making on what weapons are needed and the efficiency of making these decisions. We tried to catch up, industrialization allowed us to become a country producing machines, but the next stage of becoming a country producing factories for the production of factories for the production of machines was not completed and was abandoned for 30 years. That's why we're lagging behind, trying to get by as best we can. Not more than three days ago we had to tighten the nuts on a Shishiga (GAZ66), compared to a Toyota, to be honest, it's a quiet horror. Yes, our technicians are oak.
    Regarding the Bradley and the BMP-3, these are different vehicles. The BMP-3 is not designed for direct combat, it has no armor, unless it is used from an ambush. The Bradley is designed for this, but it still does not reach the level of a heavy BMP. This does not negate the need for light amphibious armored vehicles, they have their own niche. The Bradley is a good vehicle, well thought out. The gun has an electric drive, so the accuracy is great. Well, yes, there is no power supply, the gun does not fire. On the other hand, if there is no power supply, you have to leave the vehicle. The conclusion is that we are lagging behind, but not fatally, here it is more a clash of concepts, which functions are primary and which are secondary. Well, then the details, what height is the vehicle designed for, 170 cm or 190 cm, and so on down the list.
    Regarding prices, if you pay workers 40 thousand, then yes, it will be cheaper in every sense.
    1. -14
      8 May 2025 05: 37
      Quote: DWG1905
      Panther is a heavy tank and it is not correct to compare it with T3485
      The Panther belongs to the class of medium tanks.
      1. +12
        8 May 2025 05: 43
        The Panther belongs to the class of medium tanks.

        According to Soviet classification, the T5 was considered a heavy tank.
        1. +1
          8 May 2025 06: 45
          And in German it is average. So what to do then?
          1. +1
            8 May 2025 10: 58
            And in German it is average. So what to do then?


            Compare weight and dimensions. The Germans classified by gun caliber. You can fit more into a larger and heavier vehicle. That's what we see in the Panther in comparison with the T-34. But it had its own significant drawbacks.
      2. +5
        8 May 2025 09: 31
        If we stick to the German idiotic classification, then it turns out that
        BT-7A is a heavy tank!!! Well, why is everything according to the rules - a gun heavier than 75 mm is considered heavy!! We didn't have any medium tanks back then - all were heavy
        Therefore, there is no need to repeat what the fascists say here.

        Our classification is consistent with common sense - the tank class is tied to weight.
        That's why the Panther is considered a heavy tank.
        1. +1
          8 May 2025 22: 36
          The Germans considered the Panther a medium tank not because of its gun, but because of its organizational role and tactical niche. The Panther was supposed to become the main vehicle of tank divisions to replace the threes and fours. And in this regard, it is an analogue of the T-34 and Sherman. But the industry couldn't handle it, so it had to be diluted with fours.
      3. +1
        9 May 2025 11: 26
        The Germans had a slightly different classification and the Panzer 5 was classified as a medium tank due to the caliber of its gun.
    2. 0
      8 May 2025 07: 31
      When analyzing and comparing weapons with the West (airplanes, tanks, etc.), you need to understand that we are, in principle, lagging behind in mechanical engineering (ships and machine tools, and everything else in the broad sense of the word).

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++
    3. -2
      8 May 2025 10: 11
      And how many heavy tanks did the Germans make - if they were used only in separate tank battalions? They couldn't even scrape together enough for a regiment))) The "Panther" turned out to be heavy, but in general it was supposed to be medium, it was supposed to replace the "four". Well, as for the urban civilization - it's a masterpiece))) the British urban civilization made such tanks that Churchill himself was ashamed)))
      1. 0
        8 May 2025 18: 36
        that Churchill himself was ashamed)))

        But the Churchill tank had a very good transmission.
        1. +3
          8 May 2025 19: 25
          It is important to understand that this is where the list of good things about Churchill ends)))
          1. +2
            8 May 2025 19: 26
            It is important to understand that this is where the list of good things about Churchill ends)))

            Perhaps yes.
          2. -1
            12 May 2025 18: 30
            Imagine, it's "Churchill" (all models)
            is the MOST massive HEAVY
            tank in history :-)))
            NOT "KV", NOT "Tigers", and NOT even "IS's",
            and just like that "Churchill"!!!
            The small-minded managed to slap them together
            as many as 5,6 thousand pieces :-)))
            And the small-minded are too greedy
            by nature, to rivet
            so much blatant sh@t...
            So it's NOT sh@t at all
            the small-minded guys got it,
            albeit not immediately.
            PS
            By the way, it was enough for the small-breasted
            just one and only
            5-tower "Independent"
            to experience it, to be horrified
            to what was done and immediately forever
            lock this dream of reason in a museum.
            But in the starving Stalinist
            SeSeSeRe, having seen that "Independent",
            riveted as many as 60 pieces absolutely
            useless for war and purely
            showy scrap metal "T-35" :-(((
            And who ended up in the role of an idiot here?!
    4. +2
      8 May 2025 17: 14
      And from the point of view of technical perfection and thoughtfulness of design, it’s completely different.

      The best argument here is the Panther's final drive.
    5. +1
      8 May 2025 18: 33
      what height is the equipment designed for: 170 cm or 190 cm, and so on down the list.

      170 is the beginning of the 60s, 50 percentile, ergonomic error. BMP-3 was already made according to the standards of the SV-80 electronic warfare equipment for the 90 percentile, now I don’t remember how many cm.
    6. +1
      9 May 2025 14: 06
      The Panther is a heavy tank and it is not correct to compare it with the T3485.

      Exactly, it was heavy, but the Germans wanted and planned a medium one! Only there was no tank diesel...
      That's why they had to stay with their 4th and try to armor it against the 85 mm cannon!
      And she is 85 mm - I could stick it in a panther, oh how painfully, and a tiger cub too!
  8. +12
    8 May 2025 05: 13
    The problem with our armored vehicles is that they are changing too slowly. Additional armor kits for the BMP-3 were developed 20-30 years ago, and they started to be produced somewhere towards the end of 2024. Barbecue grills have only recently started to be riveted at factories, and before that they were limited to recommendations to Kulibin on how and what to weld to the vehicles. If something is more complex than armor sheets - it's a real bore, our fighters seem to make minesweepers themselves, since otherwise they will be sent into an attack straight into a minefield without any engineering vehicles. There is no point in talking about anything new, developed at least 10 years ago.
    And as a comparison, it is worth recalling the MaxxPro, which the Americans urgently ordered for movement around Iraq - the order from the Pentagon came out in 2006, in 2007 they showed the first samples, and by 2012 they had already riveted 9 thousand of them. In terms of dimensions and weight, it is the same as an infantry fighting vehicle, only with a machine gun on top.
    1. +3
      8 May 2025 10: 01
      Quote from alexoff
      If something is more complex than armor plates, it's a real pain. It seems like our soldiers make the minesweepers themselves, because otherwise they'll be sent into an attack straight into a minefield without any engineering vehicles.


      The entire near rear in the orange and green zones is strewn with Soviet trawlers, most of them are out of order or not brought back to normal after unloading. Tankers simply do not take them, and when they do, they throw them anywhere on the front line, I will not even talk about evacuation. In general, as an engineer, if you are interested, I will write about my experience of the SVO, but when it will be possible to LZYA, and for now ....
  9. +9
    8 May 2025 05: 14
    For example, many people blame the domestic military for the requirements for airborne equipment. It must have powerful weapons, be able to float and descend from the sky with parachutes.


    But the function of airdropping armored vehicles from military transport aircraft is the most far-fetched and has never been used in combat conditions.
    This increases the cost of the vehicles several times due to the complexity of the chassis and imposes strict restrictions on armoring.
    If we look at the truth, this is real sabotage...
    1. -3
      8 May 2025 11: 00
      It was simply necessary to make an infantry fighting vehicle for motorized riflemen and a separate light, mobile one for marines and paratroopers.
      1. -1
        8 May 2025 11: 20
        separate light, mobile for marines and paratroopers.

        Several thousand BMD-1/2/3 were stored in the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense before the SVO.
        These machines are more than enough to equip existing and newly created parachute regiments
        It is advisable to convert the BMD-1 into an ATGM, SAM system and self-propelled mortar during modernization...
        1. -3
          8 May 2025 11: 22
          Several thousand BMD-1/2/3 were stored in the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense before the SVO.


          Maybe it's time to stop using museum exhibits? Upgrading them to a modern level will cost as much as a new fresh BMP.
          1. -6
            8 May 2025 11: 31
            For "show-off" in front of commanders with big stars, the existing BMDs are enough; with this equipment, slightly modernized, it is possible, with desire and proper organization, to capture several enemy airfields...
    2. -1
      8 May 2025 18: 42
      And how much does it make it more expensive? I just want to understand the height of the flight of fantasy. Please, without the cost of the parachute and platform.
      It should also be taken into account that the price was raised after the destruction of the Volgograd site by managers from Kurgan and the transfer of production.
  10. +18
    8 May 2025 05: 23
    We should not write "hurray" nonsense in the morning, but work on our own equipment and produce it not in single copies. And not pretend to be offended that the participants of the SVO do not praise our signature BMP and BTR, but prefer trophy equipment with protection...
    And this series of articles that tries to convince the reader that it is necessary to believe not the technical characteristics of the equipment, but the author, and in general our BMP-3 has no analogues, causes only laughter and nothing more.
  11. +6
    8 May 2025 05: 29
    wassat
    Like this article because it's funny laughing .
    You can especially laugh at the place where the author finished writing laughing to the airborne troops in the rear belay own troops (but at least in the direction of the main attack wassat ).

    The author's arguments - the so-called "false analogy" - which for some reason appeal to the experience of the Great Patriotic War, do not stand up to any criticism. So one can write "Sevastopol is the best battleship of the Great Patriotic War, and the one-and-a-half ton truck is the best truck of the Great Patriotic War."

    If we were to draw analogies, this article could be compared with an article in the year 1943 (after the Battle of Kursk), in which the author would have written "We shouldn't mindlessly compare the wonderful BT7 and T26 with Tigers and Panthers, the T26 and BT7 have their advantages. And the idea of ​​the need to increase the firepower, ease of use and protection of armored vehicles is harmful". It’s not that I personally was a fan of Stalin’s educational measures (I consider them rather harmful), but in the comments I would like to ask the faithful soldier Stalinists, what would have happened to the author of such an article feel in 1943...

    P.S. The article contains useful information - about the article by A. Timokhin - I recommend you read it. As always with A. Timokhin - "good for hardware".
  12. +9
    8 May 2025 05: 37
    Back in the early 90s, I read a very interesting article in the magazine "Foreign Military Review" about the prospects of modern high-tech weapons in high-intensity conflicts of conditionally equal opponents. The analyst's conclusion in the article was as follows: Within 3-5 months, all equipment is knocked out and the conflict ends on its own. Or continues, but according to the principles of wars at the beginning of the century. Simple, easily replenished weapons in the hands of infantry. And the winner will be the one who quickly replenishes losses. The further conclusion was quite unusual for a NATO expert. NATO is not ready and cannot wage war for a long time, especially with an enemy possessing large economic and military resources. Early 90s.
  13. +7
    8 May 2025 05: 47
    The authors didn't bother too much and simply put together the shortcomings of the BMP-3 and the strengths of the Bradley.


    So make a decent, technically competent report, rather than write far-fetched conclusions that are not supported by a comparison of technical parameters and tests in proving ground conditions.
    What were the results of comparative firing of BMP-3 and Bradley from different types of weapons?
    Compare resistance and protection against mines,
    Compare the speed of landing and disembarking of troops,
    Compare the speed of evacuation of the crew and troops when the vehicles are damaged,
    Compare the effectiveness of weapons on the move, at night,
    Compare sighting systems, communications, security systems....
    1. +4
      8 May 2025 05: 56
      Quote: assault
      Compare resistance and protection against mines,
      Compare the speed of landing and disembarking of troops,
      Compare the speed of evacuation of the crew and troops when the vehicles are damaged,
      Compare the effectiveness of weapons on the move, at night,
      Compare sighting systems, communications, security systems....

      Compare the cost and technology of production
      Conduct an analysis in the key - cost/effectiveness
      1. +8
        8 May 2025 06: 12
        Compare the cost and technology of production
        Conduct an analysis in the key - cost/effectiveness

        At the same time, consider the cost of training the soldiers that this vehicle must deliver to the battlefield under armor protection. And the loss to the country's economy in the event of their death or serious injury due to the insufficient armor of budget vehicles.
        1. -7
          8 May 2025 06: 22
          It's all determined by the cost/efficiency parameter; there's no point in inventing anything new.
          1. +12
            8 May 2025 06: 24
            It's all determined by the cost/efficiency parameter; there's no point in inventing anything new.

            Then I'm afraid, according to your parameter, the BMP-3 is in a very deep mm..., let's say, fifth point...
            Although in terms of the pace of construction with Russian money, the most efficient technology is a fleet of luxury yachts
            1. -10
              8 May 2025 06: 28
              I'm afraid not - you're not Research Institute 38, and the difference between subjectivity and objectivity probably doesn't need to be explained to you.
              1. +1
                8 May 2025 06: 30
                I'm afraid not - you're not Research Institute 38, and the difference between subjectivity and objectivity probably doesn't need to be explained to you.

                And forgive me, you and the author are going to explain this difference. So you, dear Urya-propagandist, first determine it yourself, otherwise your performance characteristics are not objective, and your nonsense is objective. laughing
                1. -9
                  8 May 2025 07: 56
                  Dealing with each self-made (let's say) singer-twister is a thankless task, explaining something to you is just a waste of time, and that's not why you're here
            2. -2
              8 May 2025 10: 55
              Quote: spektr9
              Although in terms of the pace of construction with Russian money, the most efficient technology is a fleet of luxury yachts

              Let's start with the fact that both the Bradley and the BMP-3 were developed and went into production in the 80s, i.e. during the times of the USSR, when the fleet of luxury yachts did not interfere with the Soviet defense industry.

              Yes, the BMP-3 was NOT mass-produced in the USSR. But the BMP-1 and BMP-2, BTR-60, BTR-70 and BTR-80 were produced in the USSR in huge series of tens of thousands of vehicles. And for example, the fact that the BMP-1 with "cardboard" armor, which kills the crew when detonated by an anti-tank mine, was put into production, and not, say, the much more mine-resistant wheeled Object 1200 with a 60 mm frontal armor plate - this shows a certain philosophy. The philosophy that guided Soviet executives long before the post-Soviet privatizers, "tired of swallowing dust", acquired a fleet of luxury yachts, which in the current conditions turned out to be a burden for them (for those whose yachts were not taken away by British courts).

              Today it is too late to think about what other armored vehicles could be given to the SVO, we have to fight with what we have and what the factories are producing today. Therefore, we should accept the fact that the enemy has better armored vehicles. But the enemy has less of this armored vehicle.
              1. +1
                8 May 2025 18: 59
                The assertion that the enemy has less armored vehicles somehow does not fit with its columns during the Ukrainian Armed Forces' offensive in the Kursk region. At least it is old, weak-sighted and practically unarmed.
                1. 0
                  8 May 2025 23: 33
                  Yes, the Western "partners" supplied the Banderites with many thousands of armored vehicles. After all, the armored HMMWV is also an armored vehicle, not to mention the various MRAPs. It looks like they have more armored vehicles than we do. What about the so-called "first line" armored vehicles - tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, real armored personnel carriers such as the M113 or the Stryker. Here, in my opinion, the situation is completely opposite.
              2. -2
                9 May 2025 11: 38
                Let's start with the fact that both the Bradley and the BMP-3 were developed and went into production in the 80s, i.e. during the times of the USSR, when the fleet of luxury yachts did not interfere with the Soviet defense industry.

                Let's start with the fact that in the 80s the first versions of the "Bradley" and BMP-3 were both light tanks capable of overcoming water obstacles and carrying troops. Only the "Bradley" has been modernized over these 40 years and is currently a relevant combat vehicle with a good level of protection and an accurate and penetrating gun. The BMP-3 has essentially been abandoned for these 40 years, even its version with a ramp has been rolling around exhibitions for 10 years and cannot go into production...
                As a result, we have, on the one hand, a deeply modernized BMP for modern combat, and on the other, an BMP from the 80s, the modernization of which was not even thought about.

                Yes, the BMP-3 was NOT mass produced in the USSR. But the BMP-1 and BMP-2, BTR-60, BTR-70 and BTR-80 were produced in the USSR in huge series of tens of thousands of vehicles.

                Ok, let's look at the situation abroad.
                M2 Bradley - 9 pcs
                M113 - 88 pcs
                Stryker - 5 pcs.

                What I don't see is a loss in the number of equipment of the potential enemy
                1. 0
                  9 May 2025 13: 43
                  Quote: spektr9
                  Let's start with the fact that in the 80s the first versions of the Bradley and BMP-3 were both light tanks capable of overcoming water obstacles and carrying troops.

                  Let's continue. The M2 Bradley was initially a very poor swimmer, with a preliminary installation of a waterproof casing designed to compensate for the very low buoyancy reserve, with a low speed on the water due to the lack of a water jet propulsion system, and movement on the water only due to the rewinding of the tracks. But the side armor of the M2 Bradley was originally designed to provide protection from 14,5 mm B-32 bullets of the Vladimirov machine gun, while the side armor of the BMP-10, which demonstrated a speed of 3 km / h on the water due to a pair of water jets, was designed only to protect against a 7,62 mm B-32 rifle cartridge bullet. The same is true for the protection of the bottom of the hull from the effects of an anti-track AT mine explosion. The M2 Bradley had it initially, the BMP-3 did not have it and does not have it. Perhaps protection from an anti-personnel mine explosion.

                  https://38niii.ru/obzory/nazemnaya-tekhnika/55-bmp-3-opisanie-ttkh-vooruzhenie-modifikatsii-foto-obzor-ot-38-niii-mo-rf.html

                  "Protection of the crew and internal equipment is ensured in the event of a mine explosion with an explosive mass of up to 0,3 kilograms under the track and 0,7 kilograms under the bottom of the vehicle."

                  Well, in accordance with such requirements for protection against mines, a new IFV was designed, despite the fact that “dozens of different research institutes developed the IFV 3.”
                  But the Bradley has been modernized over the last 40 years and is currently a relevant combat vehicle with a good level of protection and an accurate and penetrating weapon... The BMP-3 has essentially been abandoned for the last 40 years.

                  "Bradley" was initially radically superior in protection to the BMP-3 developed later. And the "dozens" of Soviet research institutes, which the author wrote about above, are also to blame for this. Let's assume that, constrained by the requirement for good water resistance, these dozens of research institutes could not provide protection of the side from the 12,7 mm armor-piercing bullet of the AP M2 cartridge of the Browning M2HB machine gun. But what prevented these research institutes from designing the lower part of the side and the bottom of the BMP so that the vehicle would not become an irretrievable loss when running over a T-62 mine or similar? There was already experience from several years of war in Afghanistan. Nothing prevented, except the established "traditions" in the industry.
                  As a result, we have, on the one hand, a deeply modernized BMP for modern combat, and on the other, an BMP from the 80s, the modernization of which was not even thought about.

                  Well, no need. Today's BMP-3 is fundamentally different from the 3 BMP-1987 in terms of the fire control system, which has long been the vehicle's most expensive subsystem. The cost of the B8Ya01 "Bakhcha-U" fighting compartment in 2019 prices is 68,9 million rubles, 20 million rubles more expensive than the rest of the vehicle.

                  And the fact that everything along with the crew goes into irretrievable losses when running into a regular TM-62M, well, that’s “tradition”.
                  What I don't see is a loss in the number of equipment of the potential enemy

                  Well, of course, you did a great job of counting the entire M113 production from 1960 to 2007. Why not count all MT-LBs and all BTR-60/70/80s like we did? Although wait, if you count from 1960, you have to start counting from the BTR-152 (produced until 1962) and, of course, the BTR-50 (produced until 1972).
                  1. -1
                    9 May 2025 14: 39
                    The BMP-3 was designed to protect only against the 7,62 mm B-32 rifle bullet.

                    True, but in the BMP-3's performance characteristics it is written in black and white
                    The frontal armor can withstand a 30mm projectile from a distance of 200 meters, and the roof and sides can withstand a 12,7mm bullet fired from the same distance.

                    Let's discuss it
                    And the people responsible for this include the figures from the “dozens” of Soviet research institutes that the author wrote about above.

                    When you are simply unfamiliar with the technical characteristics of the equipment, I consider it idiotic...
                    And if you consider that Russian research institutes have never created a replacement for the BMP-3 that would be launched into serial production, then the claims against Soviet research institutes make you smile)

                    Why then not count all MT-LBs and all BTR-60/70/80s as our production?

                    ok let's compare
                    BTR-60 - 25 pcs.
                    BTR-70 - the exact quantity is unknown, somewhere around 25 units
                    BTR-80 - 4 pcs.
                    MT-LB - 55 pcs.
                    BTR-50 - 6 pcs.
                    BTR-152 - 12 421 pcs.
                    128 221pcs

                    M2 Bradley - 9 pcs
                    M113 - 88 pcs
                    Stryker - 5 pcs.
                    M114 - 3 pcs
                    AAV-7 - 1 pcs
                    M1117 - 2 pcs
                    M59 (produced until 60) - 6 pcs.
                    LVTP5 - 1 123pcs
                    M75 - 1 pcs
                    120 pcs and that's not counting LAV-303
                    And where is the huge superiority in terms of the amount of equipment produced?) Something that is not even visible under a microscope...
                    1. 0
                      9 May 2025 16: 28
                      Quote: spektr9
                      The frontal armor can withstand a 30mm projectile from a distance of 200 meters, and the roof and sides can withstand a 12,7mm bullet fired from the same distance.

                      These are NOT the performance characteristics of the basic BMP-3.

                      https://38niii.ru/obzory/nazemnaya-tekhnika/55-bmp-3-opisanie-ttkh-vooruzhenie-modifikatsii-foto-obzor-ot-38-niii-mo-rf.html

                      "BMP-3 armor
                      frontal and side projections – from a 30-mm BT projectile;
                      side and stern projections – from a 7,62 mm armor-piercing bullet B-32 from any range at all course angles."

                      When you are simply unfamiliar with the technical characteristics of the equipment, I consider it idiotic...

                      You don't know that the side of the BMP-3 is 43 mm of ABT-102 armor. And you write to me that I am not familiar with something there and hint at my idiocy?

                      https://btvt.info/5library/vbtt_1991_05_bmp_3_amg.htm

                      Fig. 1. Dependence of the speed of the limit of conditional damage Vпкп on the hardness and thickness b of the ABT-102 armor when firing a B32 bullet of 7,62 mm caliber at close range at normal: dark dots – hardness over 140 HB, light – not less than 140 HB

                      It's you who are simply NOT familiar with the technical characteristics of the equipment. This is forgivable. If you hadn't written about my idiocy, i.e. hadn't been rude.
                      And where is the huge superiority in terms of the amount of equipment produced?) Something that is not even visible under a microscope...

                      It is obvious to the naked eye that you, having counted the production of the M2 Bradley and even the M1117, “forgot” to count the production of the BMP-1/2/3 and BRDM-1/2, i.e. in the “calculations” you lost ~50 thousand BMPs and ~20 thousand BRDM-1/2.
                  2. -1
                    9 May 2025 14: 46
                    And the fact that everything along with the crew goes into irretrievable losses when running into a regular TM-62M, well, that’s “tradition”.

                    What if dynamic protection is installed on the bottom of the BMP-3 and BMD?
                    1. -1
                      9 May 2025 15: 12
                      A cumulative jet can be weakened by a metal plate thrown across the jet, or even another cumulative jet, but a high-explosive explosion cannot be weakened by an additional high-explosive explosion. In general, increasing the rigidity of the structure reflecting the shock wave of a high-explosive explosion, adding damping barriers/layers to the armor protection that absorb the energy of the explosion due to their own plastic deformation (for example, deformation of a layer of foam aluminum) allows increasing the anti-mine resistance of armored vehicle hulls when exposed to the high-explosive effect of a close explosion of a charge of explosive.

                      https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/dempfernaya-sistema-zaschity-konstruktsiy-pri-vzryve-na-osnove-penoalyuminiya

                      "A shock absorber system for protecting structures from explosions based on foam aluminum"
                      1. 0
                        9 May 2025 15: 21
                        It's clear that it's like that now, but once upon a time they didn't know anything about homework either...
                      2. -1
                        9 May 2025 16: 50
                        The problem is that the USSR knew about DZ since the 40s and developed an effective DZ, even a built-in one, for tanks by the end of the 60s. They did not want to implement it. The main culprit in the subsequent self-justification of the authors of the memoirs was appointed Marshal of the Armored Forces Amazasp Khachaturovich Babadzhanyan, who is credited with:

                        "As long as I live, there won't be a single gram of explosive on the tank's armor."

                        However, after his death in 1977, no one was in a hurry to introduce DZ on Soviet tanks... until the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and the success of the "Blazer" DZ during this invasion, which significantly increased the survivability of Israeli tanks when hit by cumulative munitions.

                        But this story has nothing to do with the issue of decades of ignoring by Soviet research institutes the issue of the survivability of light armored vehicles (and the crews of these armored vehicles) when they are blown up by anti-track anti-tank mines.
  14. -1
    8 May 2025 06: 05
    The problem is that we have neither organizations nor specialists capable of developing new types of armored vehicles.
    In recent years, for example, not a single new brand of steel has appeared in our country (
    The same BMP 3 was developed by dozens of different research institutes. Now they simply do not exist.
    But technology is developing. Thank God, production capacities have been preserved. The same dynamic protection cannot be installed on the BMP3 without a deep redesign of the design.
    Well, here the question of copying arises. In the current situation, it is possible and necessary to copy. Otherwise, we will lag behind forever.
    1. +1
      8 May 2025 11: 14
      Quote: ism_ek
      In recent years, for example, not a single new brand of steel has appeared in our country (

      Are you talking about armor steel grades? You are very easy to refute - armor steel grade 44S-sv-Sh, armor steel grade A3, armor steel grade SM1. See, I have already counted three. Besides, the problem with the BMP-3 is not at all in the armor steel. It has an armor hull made of aluminum armor. And this armor hull does not meet the requirements for, say, mine resistance not because it is made of aluminum armor, but because it was initially designed that way by "dozens of different research institutes" in the USSR, without taking into account the vehicle's resistance to being blown up by a typical anti-track AT mine.
      Well, here the question of copying arises. In the current situation, it is possible and necessary to copy. Otherwise, we will lag behind forever.

      Sorry, but it's clearly too late to copy the Bradley developed in the 70s and early 80s of the last century. Besides, the copy will clearly not be in time for the SVO. The SVO will have to be completed using the armored vehicles that are being produced today. The only thing we could do would be to try to develop a four-axle version of the Z-STS Akhmat armored car that does not lose mobility when blown up by an anti-tank mine in the next 25 days and have time to put this version on the conveyor as a "taxi to the battlefield" for assault units. But if they couldn't come up with a four-axle version of a three-axle armored car developed in 25 days in three years, then it won't happen either.
      1. +1
        8 May 2025 11: 48
        Quote: AlexanderA
        armor steel grade 44S-sv-Sh

        The patent is from 2010, the specifications are from 2008, but in fact this is a development from the USSR era.
        1. 0
          8 May 2025 12: 02
          Quote: ism_ek
          The patent is from 2010, the specifications are from 2008, but in fact this is a development from the USSR era.

          https://minobrnauki.gov.ru/colleges_councils/kollegialnye-organy/prize_science/public_science/files2024/Р24-28.pdf

          "Since 2010, only two grades of armor steel have been developed (A3 and 44S-Sv-Sh)... It has been established that in comparable thicknesses, SM1 steel can increase the protection class of special vehicles, or, while maintaining the protection class, it allows for a reduction in the thickness of the material used, which reduces the weight of the entire product by 15-20%."

          Please provide links to the 2010 patent and the TU 2008. And also a link to the fact that this is a "development from the USSR era."
          1. 0
            8 May 2025 14: 58
            Quote: AlexanderA
            Please provide links to the 2010 patent and the 2008 specifications.

            https://topwar.ru/60944-bronevaya-stal-dlya-vneshnih-sistem-armaty.HTML

            Enlarge the photo for the article
            1. 0
              8 May 2025 15: 24
              Quote: ism_ek
              Enlarge the photo for the article

              Thank you! And so patent RU 2 392 347 C1 "Weldable bulletproof armor steel"

              https://patenton.ru/patent/RU2392347C1

              The text of the patent contains references to Japanese patents JP 2003-147478 published on 16.03.2006 and JP 2003-147478 published on 21.05.2003, as well as to the Russian patent:

              https://patenton.ru/patent/RU2236482C1 опубл. 20.09.2004 г.

              You also wrote that the armor steel grade 44S-Sv-Sh is "a development from the times of the USSR". Do you have a link to such a statement?
              1. -1
                8 May 2025 18: 42
                Quote: AlexanderA
                You also wrote that the armor steel grade 44S-Sv-Sh is "a development from the times of the USSR". Do you have a link to such a statement?

                You don't understand. For some, nothing other than "developed in the USSR" can exist in principle.
      2. +4
        8 May 2025 16: 08
        Quote: AlexanderA
        Besides, the copy will obviously not be in time for the SVO. The SVO will have to be completed on the armored vehicles that are being produced today.

        It seems that from the very beginning of the SVO, the top brass believe that it will end in about six months, and therefore it is too late to build a new armored car plant. And it has been dragging on for four years already. It would have been possible to build a second plant in Kurgan and start a series of some Kurganets-M, after which the first plant would be repurposed for production. The SVO could last another five years, and President Vance or whoever else will promise that the war will end any minute now.
        And even if the SVO ends, then for whom does Trump demand that the Jewish people arm themselves to the maximum? Surely not against us?
        1. +5
          8 May 2025 16: 36
          The main threat to armored vehicles today is FPV drones. They are the ones that disable the vast majority of armored vehicles that are shot down or destroyed. And organizing the production and delivery of active armored vehicle protection systems against FPV drones to the troops is immeasurably more important today than organizing the production of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers of any new types, instead of those already in production.

          The only exception, in my opinion, is the establishment of large-scale production of a mine-protected four-axle armored vehicle on 8x8 KAMAZ truck units that maintains mobility when detonated by an anti-track antitank mine.

          Such an armored vehicle can be designed and launched into large-scale production in a short time - this has already been demonstrated by the history of the design and launch into production at the beginning of the SVO 6x6 armored vehicle Z-STS "Akhmat", which not only began to be mass-produced in a short time, but after some time its production was established on the conveyor.

          As for the European Union, the course of events is such that this Jewry, in my opinion, will manage to fall apart before it manages to arm itself. I really hope that I am NOT mistaken in this opinion.
          1. +3
            8 May 2025 20: 39
            Quote: AlexanderA
            And setting up the production and delivery to the troops of active protection systems for armored vehicles from FPV drones is today immeasurably more important than setting up the production of tanks, infantry fighting vehicles or armored personnel carriers of some new types, instead of those already being produced.

            Well, judging by everything, we have a lot of Buridan donkeys in our ministry who don't know what to develop, and as a result, they develop nothing. The T-72, which was equipped with a KAZ, was sent to Mariupol for filming. Because it's probably expensive, and inexpensive is when the soldiers figure it out themselves, that's what they're paid for.
            Quote: AlexanderA
            As for the European Union, the course of events is such that this Jewry, in my opinion, will manage to fall apart before it manages to arm itself.

            the Jewish people have strict masters, they can become poor and very poor, just like in the thirties. But an impoverished technically advanced enemy is extremely dangerous, because money is very much needed
  15. +1
    8 May 2025 06: 23
    In the same way, you can compare the T-34-85 medium tank with the German Pz.Kpfw. V Panther. Was there at least one parameter in which the T-XNUMX was head and shoulders above the German? No one.

    Really? What about cross-country ability? What about repairability in combat conditions? What about the speed of movement over rough terrain?! I recommend the author to familiarize himself with the materials of historians and the memoirs of veterans.
  16. +3
    8 May 2025 06: 23
    about the heavy infantry fighting vehicle CV90, which some consider to have very thick armor. The first captured vehicle was hit by a regular grenade launcher. Not even an ATGM or FPV. And in the frontal projection. How does this fit in with the "undeniable" advantages of NATO equipment in armor protection.

    The author is a trickster. good Bravo! watch your hands
    1. IVZ
      -2
      8 May 2025 07: 20
      The author is a dodger. good bravo! watch your hands
      Please explain your emotional, but somewhat meaningless comment.
      1. +5
        8 May 2025 07: 24
        Quote: IVZ
        The author is a dodger. good bravo! watch your hands
        Please explain your emotional, but somewhat meaningless comment.

        The armor of modern infantry fighting vehicles is designed to withstand a 30mm shell (front) and large fragments. The author "pierced" it with a grenade launcher and asks "where is it mainly in the armor"? With the same success he can pierce a wet newspaper and a well hatch with a crowbar and ask the same question.
        Sleight of hand and no fraud
        1. IVZ
          +2
          8 May 2025 07: 28
          The Bradley's armor has been upgraded to resist the most common RPG-7 shots. The BMP-3's additional protection kit is the same level.
          1. +6
            8 May 2025 08: 09
            Almost the same.
            And the additional protection kit for Bradley, Seavie90, etc. is even higher. But this does not mean that if it does not hold 125mm BOPS, then it does not have an advantage in armor.
  17. -14
    8 May 2025 06: 48
    When I read THAT article about comparing the Troika and Bradley - the first thought that came to mind was - CIPSO! Well, a normal person shouldn't criticize his weapon THAT way...
    THEN there was no time at all, it was impossible to object... Now the time has come!)))
    The author correctly points out what is necessary for the successful use of armored vehicles, and the training of the crew plays a very important role...
    By training we should understand not only technical literacy, but also tactical and fire training...
    And here is a question for ALL skeptics - which of the Western models of IFVs is capable of firing from the rear?
    And the BMP-3, having a 100 mm gun, is capable! At the same time, the accuracy is amazing (with proper crew training and competent fire adjustment)
    During the SVO, it was necessary to revise PRACTICALLY some provisions of the Combat Regulations - the basis is the massive use of separate UAVs, and properly organized reconnaissance with the use of separate UAVs practically (with a formal approach) excludes the surprise use of armored vehicles, which ultimately leads not only to the disruption of the implementation of combat missions, but also to losses, often unnecessary...
    The most obvious example is the repulse of the enemy's attempted offensive in the Glushkov and Tetkinsky directions...
    The pre-disclosed targets were hit! They were discovered EVEN on the march...
    Planning the use of armored vehicles without taking into account the use of unmanned aerial vehicles and small unmanned aerial vehicles by the enemy will only lead to losses... This concerns not only them, but us equally...
    And here Troika is absolutely deservedly so - there are no analogues!))))
    1. +17
      8 May 2025 08: 14
      The report from Research Institute 38, and in general according to the information that UAV fighters posted on the Internet. Bradley is a fucking durable armored transport. Which is hard to stop and in which the landing force survives very well. At the same time, it has a good FCS gun. All this in the conditions of assault landings is expressed in the fact that Bradley delivers Ukrainian attack aircraft to the landing.
    2. 0
      8 May 2025 16: 44
      In principle, there are no objections. But there are nuances. The BMP-3's ammunition is limited, and to increase the effectiveness of fire, cluster munitions and proximity fuses for airborne detonation are needed. And these modern munitions are not available.
    3. +1
      8 May 2025 19: 10
      And here is a question for ALL skeptics - which of the Western models of IFVs is capable of firing from the rear?

      I have only one question. What the hell is this for?
      What is the mission and role of the BMP? To fire from behind a hill?
      Or should we deliver the infantry to the landing line and unload it as quickly as possible? And if necessary, load it? What difference does it make how many mm the gun has if the landing force rides on top of the armor and is practically not covered by anything? And there are much more advanced machines for shooting from behind a hill. For example, self-propelled mortars and howitzers. They are much better for this.
      1. +1
        9 May 2025 14: 51
        Not taking into account the mockery - what if not from behind the hill, but direct fire from a 100 mm cannon? Then what?
        And if YOU have both self-propelled miniguns and howitzers, please don’t hesitate to explain WHERE are they?
        Even if they hypothetically exist, WHO controls them?
        I know for sure that neither the platoon commander nor the company commander, whose infantry is going to storm the enemy's positions or repel his offensive... WHO???
        1. -1
          10 May 2025 15: 13
          Let's also put a Tochka-type OTK mount on the BMP? It's convenient, isn't it? And again, the company commander doesn't have them at his disposal. But they will be. We can also put a howitzer on the KShM. True, there won't be room for a radio station because of this. But that's nothing. The main thing is that you can shoot from closed positions.
          If in your reality the attack is planned by company units at most, then everything is sad. You apparently don't know about battalion and brigade assets. And there, believe it or not, there are howitzers and mortars, and even TANKS. And it is precisely the task of the fathers of the commanders to make all this work harmoniously. And not to stick a scythe, a rake, a wheelbarrow and a flashlight on.. below the belt. To a single fighter (BMP).
          The mission of the BMP is to SAFELY AND QUICKLY DELIVER INFANTRY. And provide cover fire if possible. And not try to replace all types and branches of the military. Including the navy and aviation.
          If my axe doesn't chop, it's a bad axe. And I don't give a damn that it has an MP15 player, a flint, a corkscrew and costs XNUMX rubles less. It's a lousy axe and it has no place in my tools. And I'll get myself a separate player.
          1. +1
            10 May 2025 18: 08
            Well, my dear, you asked for it))) ...this is NOW - I am an Expert in a hospital bed, with high blood pressure, pneumonia and cardiac arrhythmia, but two weeks ago - I was Koschei from the Backwoods, (a smart person will understand that this is Glushkovo)
            And THERE EVERYONE knew me, that was my position then)) by the way, it included walks along the front line)))
            How will you feel if we spotted the enemy's first OP through binoculars from 70 meters???)))
            ... and I'm not even going to mention what I know HERE)))
            But here's what I can say - I started fighting in Soviet Afghanistan, and I didn't change my profession)))
            So, I had to FIGHT ON:
            - BRDM-2
            -BTR-70,80,82
            BRM-1k
            BMP-1,2,3...
            I KNOW what I'm talking about...
            Don't take your player, but a summons from the Military Registration and Enlistment Office, and go instead of me to Novy Put or to Glushkovo...
            You'll say - I came to teach you all to read and write, because you don't know how to do anything...
            I would laugh at you, Keyboard Warriors, if you didn't piss me off)))
            And NOW the doctors forbade me to be nervous! As well as any physical activity...))))
            They'll probably write it off soon...
            But this is not the main thing))>) We often drank to Victory - with us or without us))) and now my subordinates, including, are winning....
            AND I DID IT! Not alone, but in my specialty - I was alone...let's say - staff work)))))
            1. -1
              11 May 2025 15: 24
              Is there anything else to say besides slogans?
              Have you ever fought on foreign equipment? To compare. And explain, if the Soviet/Russian BMPs are so good. Then why the hell does infantry move on the armor? While the Western ones are INSIDE the BMP. Do you have data on losses. What is safer? To sit open to any artillery strike or to ride inside? In Afghanistan and Chechnya, the enemy did not have even 10% of the capabilities of the modern Ukrainian Armed Forces. There were no missiles with cluster warheads and a range of tens of kilometers. But we see a lot of footage from both sides when they are pounding with cluster launchers.
              Can you provide statistics on the effectiveness of BMP-1 cannon fire? On fortifications, manpower, armored vehicles. How often is fire from closed positions required? Which is more effective. 1 Mjolner-type vehicle or BMP-1,2,3?
              Having experience is not always a plus, especially if the format of the war is different.
              1. +1
                11 May 2025 18: 04
                Nonsense and empty talk - war is and will be war - some new forms will appear, new tactical methods will follow...
                And it is complete IDIOCY to not take experience into account...
                The experience of officers is a unique and extremely valuable thing! They pay for it with blood, half the trouble is with YOUR OWN, worse - with the blood of their subordinates...
                And WITHOUT PERSONAL participation you can’t get COMBAT experience...
                I will HONESTLY say - my specialty prefers to walk for the most part, but... ONCE I led an armored group of the regiment into an attack... It was September 23, Luhansk region... The attack was not successful, we suffered losses in both equipment and personnel.
                But THERE I encountered Javelins for the FIRST TIME, which the Ukrainian airborne troops had in abundance...
                So, I personally testify:
                - BTR-82- BMP Marder- 1:0 (head-on combat)
                Deuce - Marder - 1:0 (head-to-head battle)
                Troika - Shvedka - 1:0 (from ambush)
                If you conduct your own ANALYSIS - 75-80% of the losses of armored vehicles are drones, a quarter are mines....
                TWO of our Deuce on TM-62-without 200....(participated in the battle personally, explosions under the right gusli)
                I have 4 Swedes near Novy Put, all on mines... the crew is nearby, I went there in November...
                Cossack - they burn like matches - I had to examine about ten of them, the corpses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are still there...
                HIMSELF...TWO TIMES... BRM-1K...explosion on the right and Dvavelin on the left from above... Everyone remained ALIVE, wounded, but retreated...
                Troika - exit to Rubezh - fire for correction - immediate retreat! Same with 82 - but THAT one - off the cuff, on a hunch...
                They'll burn it with a drone... the result is excellent, the targets were destroyed with the second or third shot...
                I have a personal relationship with ALL the burned equipment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from May 5 to the present in the direction of Tyotkino and Glushkovo, I know who did it, I prepared the meeting myself..))))
                ALL- udBpLA...
                If you just drive and leave - you need transporters! For SUPPORT - you need an infantry fighting vehicle!
                A cumulative munition penetrates any armor FROM ABOVE, they ride on top - it's faster to jump off... it doesn't matter, but a cumulative munition inside the armor is almost always -200, no armor can save you from the pressure...
                1. 0
                  11 May 2025 18: 46
                  Now this is something concrete.
                  From above, I understand, Javelins and the like attack. Regular drones hit the sides. From a shallow dive. I judge by dozens of videos from both sides. FPV drones do not yet know how to make a "hill". Even if the attack falls on the roof, it is at fairly sharp angles. And this means "ricochets" and the path of the cumulative jet is the most unfavorable. We are not considering dropping grenades into hatches.
                  Now about your data. You are talking about 25% losses from mines. How are things here? Where is the survivability of the landing force higher?
                  And how are things with protection from shrapnel? Or are both sides no longer repelling attacks with artillery fire? There is less video here, but nonetheless there is one. As well as MLRS strikes.
                  There are shots of broken columns from both sides. It was clearly not drones that were at work there.
                  Can you tell us how things stand in this case with the survivability of the landing force and equipment?
                  Now about "tank battles"
                  In your example, the APC clearly does not have a 100 mm gun. And yet it won the fight with its classmate. Does that mean that having 100 mm is not a mandatory condition? Although of course, drawing conclusions based on 2-3 episodes is, well, that's it.
                  Can you give examples when the ability to conduct combat operations from CLOSED positions, specifically BMPs, became decisive, or at least extremely significant, in repelling attacks?
                  Wouldn't it be better to give a motorized rifle company one or two self-propelled mortars or some kind of BMPT, or a tank at last? That would allow the transporters to concentrate on delivering the landing force. And the support group would destroy the targets.
                  Or it is impossible to achieve such coordination today and each squad needs to be given its own 100 mm cannon. Even at the expense of armor protection.
                  I'm just wondering. How do they manage to fight in an APC? There are videos of attacks. And they somehow manage without a 100mm cannon.
                  1. +1
                    11 May 2025 20: 43
                    Now, or in the foreseeable future, in general, technology will be suitable for LBS only in bad weather conditions, when UAVs cannot be used due to weather conditions - for some time we will retain the advantages of using fiber-optic UAVs, but this
                    the advantage can't be long... In any case, I ALREADY found "fishing line from Ukrainian drones" on the New Way, there to the border - less than a kilometer....
                    But every attack is preceded by a fire preparation for the offensive, at least that’s how it should be...
                    So, there, in the LPR, we had Troikas, I won’t say how many, but not all units...
                    And if our guys went to the Dvoikas on January 24, then all the Troikas and tanks fired from the ZOP... along with artillery, of course...
                    The task of the day was completed with minimal losses IN ONE AND A HALF HOURS! I was the AGS crew number THERE))))
                    The whole question is IN THE STAFF of the unit! And the HUGE amount of work on organizing interaction with attached units, and if the units are not attached, but interact - then it is practically impossible to get them to fulfill YOUR tasks...
                    Hence - yours or the dowry - you command, interact with
                    you - not you...
                    I have never seen a Terminator, but tanks could withstand UP TO 6 fpv!!! Neither B-class tanks nor Transporters are capable of that...
                    And you can add EVERYTHING, but only if it exists! And if it doesn't, then there's nothing to add!
                    Staffing table of a unit/regiment,
                    Statewide regulations!!!
                    And the question is - where to get the money...
                    There is no way to provide each company with a 240 mm Tulip, and there are simply NO other SELF-PROPELLED mortars!
                    In Nature...not only IN THE STATE...
                    The mortar mount on the MTLB is a folk art, not a finished product...
                    The huge number of UAVs and drones over the battlefield makes significant adjustments to the conduct of combat...
                    Look how it burns Ukrainians near Novy Put and near Tyotkino, or more precisely, near Iskriskovshchina....
                    They acted and continue to act in an absolutely EXPECTED manner - here is the result....
                    The army NEEDS ACTUAL states... then there will be no problems with fire damage to the enemy....
                    But the question is - where is the money, Zin?))) No one has cancelled it)))
                    Expensive...but the blood of soldiers and officers is also expensive....
    4. 0
      9 May 2025 03: 32
      Of course. Everything unpleasant on the internet is tsipso. If it weren't for these lop-eared boulders, we would have sailed to London, riding on an infantry fighting vehicle.
  18. 0
    8 May 2025 06: 51
    If the author were given free rein, he would return to the notorious "groveling before the West." And this instead of sound analysis.
  19. +1
    8 May 2025 06: 52
    Just the other day I read the novel by Mikhail Nikolaevich Zagoskin "Roslavlev, or the Russians in 1812", published in 1831.
    There is such a moment:

    ...You see, in my opinion, the history of the enlightenment of all peoples is divided into three epochs. In the first, that is, the epoch of barbarism, we not only shun all foreigners, but even despise them. A foreigner, in our eyes, is almost not a man; he must consider it a favor if we allow him to live among us and enrich us with his knowledge. Little by little, getting used to thinking that these newcomers were created just like us, in the image and likeness of God, we gradually reach the point where we begin to adopt not only their knowledge, but even their customs; and then the second epoch begins for us. Contempt for foreigners turns into unconditional respect; we see in each of them our teacher and mentor; everything foreign seems beautiful to us, everything our own - bad. We think that only slavish imitation can bring us closer to the enlightened nations, and if at this time a genius is born among us, then not we, but perhaps foreigners, will do him justice: this is the era of semi-enlightenment. At last, the age of hasty ripening and aping is passing. The fruit of many years, of countless experiments - the beautiful fruit of the disinterested labors of great geniuses, not rewarded with glory or honors - is ripening; true enlightenment is spreading throughout the country; we do not despise or idolize foreigners; we have become equal to them; we no longer wish to know everything somehow, but try to study well what we know; the national character and physiognomy are forming, we are beginning to love our language, to respect our native talents and to cherish our national glory. This is the third and last era of national enlightenment. For the majority of Russians the first, it seems, has passed; but the last, at least for many, has not yet arrived.
    - But can this serve as a justification for those who slander their fatherland?
    - And how so, my friend? Impartiality is the virtue of truly enlightened people; and that is why some Russians, wishing to seem enlightened, try in every way to disparage everything domestic, and in order to prove their European impartiality, are ready to argue with a foreigner if he decides to praise something Russian. Of course, for the honor of our nation it would not hurt to not allow these gentlemen, like prohibited goods, to go abroad; but we should not be angry with them. They disgrace themselves in the eyes of foreigners and dishonor their homeland, not because they do not love it, but only in order to seem impartial and, therefore, enlightened people. Well, about a month ago I was with our neighbor Ilmenev at the Volgins, who were coming to their village from Moscow for a few weeks; at first sight I liked their only son very much, a child of about twelve years old, and truly extraordinary intelligence and kindness are imprinted on his pretty face; but after a few minutes this first impression gave way to a feeling quite contrary. This boy was clever, interfered importantly in conversations, found that everything in the village was bad, that the peasants were so stupid, and, wanting to seem a perfect man, he shouted and made so much noise at people without any reason, imitating his papa, who sometimes scolded them for good reason, that in the end I felt disgusted to look at him. I told Ilmenev about this, who answered me quite coolly: "And, sir, what more can we blame him for: a fool, my dear sir, - a child! When he grows up, he will become smarter." What do you think, Roslavlev? Isn't it better for us not to be angry with our half-enlightened clever girls, but to say to ourselves: "What more can we blame them for - children! When they grow up, they will become smarter!"
  20. +11
    8 May 2025 07: 26
    A brief summary of the article - Western armored vehicles are not as good as they say, and our armored vehicles are not as bad as they think.
    I liked the reaction to the conclusions about the tests of Western armored vehicles, you are all lying and this is generally a fake))
    Is it really true that no one is still able to draw dry conclusions about captured and other armored vehicles without blatant jingoism? The fog of hatred clouded their eyes (c)
  21. +16
    8 May 2025 07: 42
    Western technology is not as good as ours. Here is the BTR-82A - an excellent armored personnel carrier, the gun accurately hits a squirrel in the eye, powerful protection, floats on seas and rivers, and all sorts of ramps and placing troops in the stern are nonsense. The troops move perfectly on the armor.
    1. -2
      8 May 2025 09: 48
      You should be flogged for this! And you, father, along with the landing party too!
    2. +5
      8 May 2025 11: 11
      Here is the BTR-82A - an excellent armored personnel carrier


      An excellent Transporter, designed specifically for circus macaques. It is so convenient to climb, jump and hop on it! It is, however, inconvenient to ride. And dangerous. And also - it is practically a museum exhibit. It raises the cultural level of the poor fellows who were put in it.
      1. 0
        8 May 2025 11: 25
        Quote: cast iron
        Excellent Transporter, designed specifically for circus macaques. It is so convenient to climb, jump and hop on it! However, it is inconvenient to ride. And dangerous.

        The infantry has been riding on armor since Afghanistan. Only now it has become more difficult to roll off the armor because of the bars.
        1. +6
          8 May 2025 11: 49
          Enemy drone pilots warmly welcome this method of transportation!
          1. +2
            8 May 2025 16: 10
            This is the latest active defense system, ready to shoot down drones in droves!
    3. 0
      8 May 2025 16: 54
      There are videos online of a column of enemy armored personnel carriers being shot at by two BTR-82As from an ambush in the Kursk region. A landing party managed to get out of several of the damaged vehicles, but the vehicles were not finished off. Consequently, the effectiveness of the 30 mm cannon is still insufficient. It would not hurt to have the ability to use small-sized missiles like the Bulat. Apparently, the fire control system also requires some improvement.
      1. +1
        8 May 2025 18: 20
        Well, you're still going to suggest putting a 100mm weapon on a light armored personnel carrier, right? The problem with the 82A isn't its lack of firepower, but that it's not used where it should be. Enemy columns should be shot down from ambush by something more powerful, preferably something with tracks, rather than armored personnel carriers, so that the weapon can fit on that platform.
        1. 0
          8 May 2025 18: 28
          If the turret is made wider from the very beginning, then it would be possible to install a mortar gun with a caliber of 82 mm and then launch small-sized guided missiles like the new Bulat through the barrel.
          I would also like to replace the gun with a 2A42, like the one in the Spica module. It looks even better on the DUBM, since there is no problem with gas contamination of the fighting compartment. But the module is still missing, apparently it has not been finalized.
          Do you want to disarm the APC, to turn it from a formidable combat vehicle into a victim? So that they can be shot at in columns like foreign APCs and as before in mountain ambushes?
          1. 0
            9 May 2025 00: 37
            Well, replacing it with 2A42 is a normal solution, but trying to shove something heavier onto the APC is honestly nonsense, only improving the 30-tka. The APC has never been a "formidable combat vehicle", its task is to work in the second line or in the internal troops and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and certainly not in the first line with its bulletproof armor, and attempts to achieve this will only lead to another III Panzer, for which a new vehicle needs to be designed from scratch, fortunately we have one - the Boomerang. Thus, the APC at Kursk was very lucky that in those columns there were only MRAPs, and not a single Bradley or tank at all, which would have buried everyone there.
            1. +1
              9 May 2025 11: 08
              The BTR-82A proved that it is a very combat vehicle, it proved it in action. In that ambush, two BTRs disabled 14 enemy armored vehicles.
  22. +2
    8 May 2025 08: 29
    Watch the movie "Pentagon Wars" (from 1998). Bradley doesn't need a better "advertisement" than from the Americans themselves.
    1. +7
      8 May 2025 09: 32
      I myself consider "Pentagon Wars" a textbook for all those involved in the production and testing of military equipment, but firstly, the film is not about the Bradley itself, but about the prototype undergoing testing. And at the end of the film it is clearly stated that as a result of the epic the machine was improved and showed itself very well in real combat conditions.
      And, secondly, let's not forget that "Pentagon Wars" is a feature film with comedy elements, not a documentary, and most of the episodes reproduced in it are intentionally grotesque, so that the situation is understandable and looks funny not only for narrow specialists, but also for the uninitiated civilian viewer.
      1. -2
        8 May 2025 10: 17
        Quote: Bogalex
        that "Pentagon Wars" is a feature film with comedy elements

        "A fairy tale is a lie, but there is a hint in it"
    2. +2
      8 May 2025 16: 12
      I think if we started making films about our technology, there would be tragicomedies or just tragedies. But we can't even attempt that!
    3. -1
      9 May 2025 03: 36
      Excellent film. Although exaggerated, it clearly shows the process of developing new types of military equipment.
  23. +2
    8 May 2025 08: 37
    Is it that the Tigers are more mobile than the IS? Discovery of the century.
  24. +15
    8 May 2025 09: 05
    It is unlikely that there is admiration for foreign technology here, but rather disappointment in domestic technology. How much joy and delight was poured out in the media over models that have no analogues. How many times Armatas and Coalitions rode in parades. And in the end, modernized Soviet technology is fighting. There was a certain rollback from unfulfilled hopes and the collapse of expectations. Hence the purely psychological tossing of minds.
    1. -1
      8 May 2025 17: 13
      That's not the point, the enemy has almost unlimited ammunition, especially mines. We don't have enough mine clearing machines and they are poorly protected, just like the enemy's.
  25. +5
    8 May 2025 09: 07
    It is highly likely that this is a fake,

    In the previous article about BMP-3 we found out that the report is not fake. Someone even posted a link to the magazine with it.
  26. +9
    8 May 2025 09: 11
    Summary: Timokhin works for the CIA-GUR and other organizations that do not recognize the superiority of floating aluminum boxes and guns that shoot somewhere without additional support over protected non-floating Western IFVs. This author even praises the ramp and large internal volume!
    Timokhin's quotes:
    All armored vehicles are very well thought out in terms of infantry placement and disembarkation, even the M113 and all its derivatives.
    Thus, the front engine placement allows for doors or ramps for dismounting to be made in the rear armor plate, which, in turn, allows for the landing force to be dismounted in an area that is not exposed to fire from the front.
    The refusal to slope the side walls of the armored hull too much and to reduce the height of the hull at any cost makes it possible to accommodate soldiers in modern equipment – ​​in body armor, unloading systems, with assault backpacks, etc. – with an acceptable level of comfort in the internal volumes of the vehicles.
    allow it to be done.
    The presence of a ramp allows the landing force to dismount almost instantly, freeing the vehicle from the need to stand for a long time or move at minimum speed until the landing force leaves it.

    This is pure heresy, such statements cannot be tolerated. The landing force must ride on armor.
    1. 0
      8 May 2025 17: 28
      Hello! Can you provide a link to Timokhin's article? Google provides links to this article on VO. But not to Timokhinskaya.
      1. 0
        8 May 2025 17: 37
        The article is uncensored and fully reflects the author's views. The Internet only has the attached pdf file. Download from the link
        https://t.me/playcivilization/2130
        1. +1
          9 May 2025 18: 48
          Thank you! I will read and study it. Timokhin is a very interesting author, it is a pity that VO rarely publishes him
    2. -1
      8 May 2025 19: 00
      guns that shoot somewhere without additional support

      Explain why the barrels of sniper rifles are "hung out".
      "Additional support" can increase the ANGULAR deviations of the muzzle of the barrel.
  27. +1
    8 May 2025 09: 21
    "It's time to stop admiring Western armored vehicles"
    IMHO, except for authors who need to write about something, I have not met anyone who is particularly "admiring"

    They admire achievements. Starlinks, Su-35, Airbus, Rosatom... for the sake of their performance characteristics.
    and the rest is writing notes for salary for nothing, IMHO
  28. fiv
    -3
    8 May 2025 09: 41
    So it is the bloggers who have such swings in their ratings, and that is because the extra letter feeds them. They pay for smart thoughts in other places. And we already know - ours means the best
  29. +1
    8 May 2025 10: 02
    report "Results of research tests of the Bradley M2A2 ODS SA (USA) IFV", allegedly published in the Information and Technical Bulletin "Use (operation) of weapons, military and special equipment in a special military operation", distributed by the GABTU. It can be stated with a high degree of probability that this is a fake, replete with inaccuracies and assumptions

    This is not the first time the author has questioned the authenticity of this report. I haven't read it and probably won't, but here's the thing - problems with Soviet/Russian APCs/IFVs (does it make sense to separate them now?) have been written about for decades by direct users. A concept that prioritizes mobility and puts infantry protection last is unnatural. Until 2022, Bradley won't be mentioned in comparisons anymore, but Namer in general, it weighs 60 tons if I remember correctly. This may be too much, Israel is a little smaller in size and there's no need to drag them back and forth and the soil is different, but somehow I think the direction of thought is more correct.
  30. 0
    8 May 2025 10: 56
    Quote: Wildcat
    I would like to know from the true Stalinists what would have happened to the author of such an article in 1943...

    The article would not have been published.
  31. +4
    8 May 2025 11: 32
    Everyone would like to admire the "Armata", "Boomerang", and other similar new products of our military-industrial complex, but where are they, except at exhibitions (and then often only in the form of models) and parades?
    1. +3
      8 May 2025 12: 44
      Quote: UAZ 452
      Everyone would like to admire the "Armata", "Boomerang", and other similar new products of our military-industrial complex

      You will admire it at the parade. These models need to be finished. In the meantime, let's admire the modified Kulibin BTR-82A with a booth for a forestry trooper, the T-62M with a dismantled turret and canopy, the T-54 of 49 with a booth for a machine gunner and paratroopers on the turret.
      1. +1
        8 May 2025 13: 11
        So the whole question is - how many decades will it take to polish it, what will be the result, and will the "polished" not be hopelessly outdated by the time it is brought to real serial production? There is only one thing that can be said for sure - all the billions and trillions that will be allocated for this polishing will be spent without a trace, down to the last ruble.
        1. +1
          8 May 2025 13: 25
          Quote: UAZ 452
          So the whole question is exactly how many decades will it take to finish it?

          The ceremonial boomerang of the 2015 model with a mock-up of the combat module already looks very different from the finished version. Nevertheless, the sawing process continues.
        2. +1
          8 May 2025 19: 09
          So the whole question is precisely this: how many decades will it take to refine it, what will be the end result, and will the “refined” thing turn out to be hopelessly outdated by the time it reaches real serial production?

          It's all over before it even started.
          The youth trained at site 148, just like they did at site 140. The difference is that funding was cut to the delight of local "accountants", and some were laid off, and some left on their own.
    2. +2
      9 May 2025 11: 38
      To be fair, or maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but I didn't see any armatas or boomerangs at the parade today, and the announcer didn't seem to be making any sound. Apparently, something started to dawn on someone. request
      1. +1
        9 May 2025 13: 34
        And it seems there weren't any at the last one. Either someone really understood how the "Armata" is perceived at parades, and the T-55 at LBS, or the demonstration models broke down, and they didn't think it was necessary to produce a couple of new parade models.
      2. +1
        9 May 2025 15: 23
        there were boomerangs at the end, I didn't see the armat either
  32. P
    +4
    8 May 2025 12: 36
    the author proposed a rational idea: to compare equipment using one method. This should be done using calculable, measurable methods. And this method exists. How much on average FPV with a carrot on board is needed to stop and ignite equipment. The numbers are there and they are not in favor of the BMP 1-2-3
  33. 0
    8 May 2025 12: 40
    In principle, no one admires, but recognizes the performance characteristics of some products as positive and useful, from the survivability of personnel to the angle of deviation when firing.
  34. +1
    8 May 2025 12: 56
    I would like to ask the author what brand of car he uses at home? And why do Russian motorists prefer foreign cars, even used ones, instead of domestic ones? The answer is clear in advance.
    1. 0
      8 May 2025 17: 22
      The question is not as simple as it seems. Somewhere in the early 2000s, there was a curious division. The director and his deputies, as well as retired military personnel, only foreign cars, domestic cars were mainly for engineering and technical workers and other specialists.
    2. +1
      8 May 2025 19: 16
      And why do Russian motorists prefer foreign cars, even used ones, instead of domestic ones?

      I have a relative who admired his Subaru until the valve spring broke with all the ensuing consequences.
      Has anyone heard of a valve spring failure on a Zhiguli?
      1. -1
        8 May 2025 22: 54
        Are Italian engineers better than Japanese ones?
        1. -2
          8 May 2025 22: 56
          Are Italian engineers better than Japanese ones?

          Russian metallurgists are better than Japanese ones.
          I can give you another example from my own experience. The clutch housing on my DAF broke, out of nowhere.
          1. -1
            9 May 2025 01: 23
            Let's not tell fairy tales about bad Japanese metallurgists. The Japanese car engines are a million times better than domestic ones.
      2. -1
        9 May 2025 01: 08
        Anything can break on a Zhiguli. Not the best example. But any car can have a single defect or unusual breakdown. In general, foreign cars are better than domestic cars. That's a fact. Only an idiot would argue.
        1. +2
          9 May 2025 12: 55
          Anything can break on a Zhiguli.

          I have never heard from anyone that a valve spring breaks. And this is one of the most loaded parts.
          1. -2
            9 May 2025 13: 59
            I have never heard from anyone that a valve spring breaks.


            I've never heard of a Subaru's valve spring breaking before. By the way, what kind of Subaru is it? What year was it made? Who used it and how? Did they even change the engine oil? Are you saying that the Zhiguli is the epitome of a car? Well, maybe it'll work for kids. But I had a Zhiguli. The old Subaru is better. Definitely. Even if the spring broke on one of them.
            Happy Victory Day!
            1. +2
              9 May 2025 14: 41
              Have you at least changed the oil in the engine?

              Does changing the oil somehow save you from a metallurgical defect?
              And regarding the broken clutch housing on the DAF, you apparently have no objections.
              1. -1
                9 May 2025 15: 25
                Are you "in all seriousness" claiming that the Russian auto industry is no worse than foreign ones?
                1. +1
                  9 May 2025 19: 21
                  Are you "in all seriousness" claiming that the Russian auto industry is no worse than foreign ones?

                  I have never had any problems with VAZs. Just small stuff, and then only with third-party components, not with factory conversion. I won't buy a foreign car, because the prices for spare parts are crazy. I remember how a friend was happy with a used BMW, like 250, and it doesn't eat oil. But when the heater motor broke down, he scratched his head.
  35. -1
    8 May 2025 13: 12
    It's time to stop admiring everything and start evaluating it soberly and carefully.
    1. -3
      8 May 2025 13: 32
      And who exactly was admiring?
      The author simply leads the reader away from discussing the current topic: why is NATO logistics still working properly in Ukraine?
      1. -1
        8 May 2025 17: 37
        The author should address such questions to the Kremlin, and not to an Internet resource.
  36. 0
    8 May 2025 13: 28
    I can remember how many photos there were of Bredlya falling into a crater from an explosion and not being able to get out. That's where they finished her off. I've never seen one like that from a BMP3. It reminded me. In the north, we hunt partridges like that. You have to take a warm bottle of champagne with water and make holes in the snow. You put some cranberries in the hole. Once the partridge gets into the hole, it can't get out. Then they go and pull them out by the tail.
    In general, the main complaint has always been about the ammunition in the landing force and the complete destruction of the vehicle and the landing force when running over a mine. It is solved very simply. If you work as a nomadic mortar with a ZP, then do not take the landing force. If as an infantry fighting vehicle, then do not take the 100 mm BK. One guided projectile in the barrel in case of an encounter with something serious and that's it. Get there, land the landing force and go back.
    1. -1
      9 May 2025 00: 03
      The solution is very simple. If you work as a nomadic mortar with a ZP, then don't take the landing force. If as an infantry fighting vehicle, then don't take the 100 mm BK.


      Do we train BMP-3 crews to operate mortars? Something tells me that they don't. They learn right on the battlefield. Although this is already full-fledged artillery work. And something tells me that the resource of the 100 mm barrel of the BMP-3 is much lower than that of the 120 mm mortar... The concept is not bad - to have a universal light tank-mortar for any occasion. But how then to organize this so that 100 mm rounds are not constantly carried in a carousel and assigned only for work from closed positions? In our army this is very unlikely.
      1. +1
        10 May 2025 16: 48
        A mortar is not an option on the battlefield now. Given the number of drones in the close zone, it will not survive for long. The IFV has a much better chance. If a 100mm gun is designed as a gun, then its barrel resource for mines should be greater than that of any mortar.
        The training depends on the organization. If you want, it is quite possible to teach in a month of preparation.
        It is unclear why it is unrealistic to load the ammunition only before performing a combat mission. Tankers have not carried a full ammunition for a long time, but only as much as planned.
  37. -8
    8 May 2025 14: 06
    For example, here is a report "Results of research tests of the IFV "Bradley" M2A2 ODS SA (USA)", allegedly published in the Information and Technical Bulletin "Use (operation) of weapons, military and special equipment in a special military operation", distributed by the GABTU. With a high degree of probability, it can be stated that this is a fake, replete with inaccuracies and assumptions.

    Another article exposing this fake? Maybe it's time to stop raising enemy equipment ratings with such opuses?
  38. +1
    8 May 2025 14: 33
    Every weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. The arquebus has a heavier cannonball, the musket has a powerful buttstock, the 3-line has a good bayonet, and so on. One tank has good batteries, another has thicker armor, a third weighs less, a fourth has better optics, a fifth has a connection with a satellite group.
    And each has its own peculiarities in use.
  39. 0
    9 May 2025 00: 29
    A year or more ago, I was at a trophy exhibition in Moscow - I looked, touched, and smelled. There were post-USSR trophies there, and foreign ones - there was something to compare with. "By eye."
    Now, without claiming absolute - if "by eye" then Western technology, it is, of course, "in fat". The same "Bradley" or "Abrams" are stupid irons if compared with our analogues. They can afford this because their budgets allow them to go for survivability-quality, even without an emphasis on some kind of super-modern design (both Abrams and Bradley are not super-modern designs, not even close, by this word I mean crafts like K2 and the like, precisely from the point of view of the "quintessence of SWAG and high-tech) or even some more or less modern trends in ergonomics.
    Here we must understand that for American heavy equipment this is basically their "school", their traditional view. The same "Sherman" was a rather ridiculous tank - it was tall, not modern, not particularly, I would say, structurally valuable, but it was fat (in the forehead), which is what they, in general, needed. Then they caught on to the power of guns and as a result, their American ground heavy equipment follows a very simple path - it is stupidly fat, but not in the absolute, namely to the level at which, I would say, it is not easy to kill. Well, or "simply not to kill". In this regard, only the Jews with their "Merkavas" went further, but it is understandable - the same logic in which the crews must be saved, something relatively frivolous the tank itself will take out, and something more serious will be taken out not by the tank but by the system. The doctrines of a crazy blitz-nuclear blitz with a tongue in your mouth, in which the technicals are rushing to the English Channel and they need to be really massive, serial and for a huge army of conscripts - they didn't need it, because it was clear as day that in a land conflict the Americans and Co. would play "black". So their machines needed to survive and knock out, and if they move, then not with some crazy blitz, but moderately-methodically and most importantly without hellish losses. Because the tolerance for losses in the West is lower, also historically.

    Well, this kind of logic still rules the roost among them today - this is, in general, a very good logic, considering that Guderian's times remained in the 1930-1940s, with the advent of personal anti-tank weapons, the development of mines, the appearance of FPVs, anti-tank missiles, and so on and so forth.
    The foreheads of American equipment are really thick, the armor is basically good, the survivability of the crews is also quite high - other things "IN THEORY" the task is not the performance characteristics of their individual equipment but their COMPLEX, which Ukraine did not get or got in pieces.

    And here we come to the second main reason for the sadness of the battered Western equipment - it is not so much the quantity, as the separation from the complex of means for which they were created as separate models. In our equipment this is expressed MUCH less (again, IMHO), which, however, considering the rate at which the SVO is developing, does not seem such a plus. Our equipment is much more some independent devices "for a task" than a bundle of devices in a complex "for tasks", synergistically strengthening, overlapping and interacting with each other.

    I will finish my thought by saying that we have encountered Western technology - and we did well. At one time in Spain we also encountered German technology, but when we encountered the German COMPLEX of which this technology was a part, that was a very unpleasant surprise. Do not underestimate the enemy because his individual models got stuck and burned. We have not yet dealt with his complex (and I REALLY hope that this will not happen), but he, in turn, has been observing and testing our complex for three years. And that is bad.
    German tanks in 1941 were absolute junk, but as we know from history, this did not stop them from doing many things. You should not stop seeing the problem behind the performance characteristics.
  40. 0
    9 May 2025 03: 35
    Just look at the Internet, how much military equipment was made in WWII, in the USSR and Germany together, practically with all of Europe... You can add that they supplied to the USSR under Lend-Lease, although they didn't supply God knows what models of equipment, but still, they fought, and quite well... And after that, you claim that Western equipment is superior in LBS... When its numbers don't even exceed a mechanized division? Maybe the question is something else?
    1. 0
      9 May 2025 08: 29
      Happy holiday to all! Well, I still need to comment. We must not forget that war is a technology, or rather a technological process, a system fights. Technological approaches may be different depending on the conditions. An infantry fighting vehicle is an element of a technological process, and accordingly it must be linked to other elements. The chain "heavy" tank - "light" infantry fighting vehicle, clearly does not fit. They cannot act together. Infantry on an infantry fighting vehicle will be knocked out, tanks without infantry will be burned. In this case, for combat operations in the European theater of operations. We need a link of a heavy tank (and I would add a third element - a heavy assault vehicle) - a heavy infantry fighting vehicle. Naturally, in the jungle, a light tank - a light infantry fighting vehicle. An attempt and glimmers of consciousness to understand this problem resulted in the creation of the BMPT. Maybe not very successfully. Regarding the threat of various UAVs. There is such a magic abbreviation RTR (radiotechnical intelligence), so RTR should completely cover at least the attack strip at the range of communication channels. That is, information on all sources of electromagnetic radiation should be automatically processed and the coordinates transmitted to strike vehicles. As an option, tethered balloons can be used to raise antennas. Naturally, this is not easy, you need computing power for communication channels, AI to identify priority targets and databases. The most important thing is the docking between different departments (elements of the system). Everything is clear what to do. A heavy infantry fighting vehicle is needed, since it is not possible to suppress all enemy fire weapons. And so, if artillery razes the enemy's defense to zero, you can arrive in a minibus, collect trophies, but this does not happen. It is sad that we are clumsy. And my vision of the future is that various UAVs with AI elements that self-direct on sources of electromagnetic radiation will be created. And any attempt to turn on the transmitter (any) will end in an arrival. Let's go back, watch the movie "Package".
  41. -5
    9 May 2025 11: 12
    And no one admires it, Author, they simply state the fact that if it is better in some way, then it is better. And this should be perceived normally and their equipment should be brought to this. The fact that you wrote this article will not make the BMP-3 a real infantry vehicle.
  42. +1
    9 May 2025 13: 12
    Well, in general, the Bradley is objectively better than the BMP 3, this is a fact and this must be recognized.
    And of course, start releasing new types of armored vehicles.
  43. +3
    9 May 2025 14: 16
    It's time to stop admiring Western armored vehicles

    The author is right here. This admiration for the West is deeply rooted in our liver. All the best is there, but for some reason the West quietly presses itself to its borders with its super-duper!
    BMP3 is a good vehicle. Maybe not ideal, but there are no ideal ones.
    However, our IFV is lighter and faster and has better cross-country ability, which gives it advantages that little is written about here!
  44. +1
    9 May 2025 14: 56
    for the transfer of BMD, a promising direction may be the creation of a simplified and unmanned version of a convertiplane with one turbo engine with a drive through electromagnetic clutches for two lifting propellers and one lifting-rotating tail propeller
    1. 0
      11 May 2025 10: 44
      I don't quite understand why you got a minus, but the idea of ​​using a huge cargo drone/convertiplane, possibly even unmanned, for the rapid transfer of light equipment in your rear - this, it seems to me, is quite promising and will be used in modern armies in the future.
  45. -3
    9 May 2025 17: 48
    KG / AM
    The author doesn't deserve more.
  46. 0
    10 May 2025 11: 07
    Yes, Timokhin is still that famous galosh.
  47. 0
    10 May 2025 18: 26
    It is necessary to study the enemy's technique correctly and make it better. And victory will be ours.
  48. 0
    11 May 2025 18: 48
    It is difficult to compare military equipment, especially modern... For a deep analysis and "bringing it out" for everyone to see, deep technical knowledge and sufficient "immersion in the topic" are needed, which (knowledge + mastery of the topic) is difficult to do in the current "information field", if not to say that "it's a total disaster".... The so-called "military experts" and various "military industry specialists" have flooded the information space, "sowing" outright nonsense and stupidity, "brainwashing" readers with reprints from "foreign" publications, without even caring about the quality of the translations.... After all, "hype", "name", oxymuron are "in demand" these days, but brains and conscience - they don't pay money for them these days....
  49. 0
    11 May 2025 23: 39
    The article is pure custom-made and opportunistic, it looks like an excuse for the almost complete absence of new equipment, with significantly increased protection for crews and troops. How many years have passed since the first demonstration of the Kurganets, Armata, etc.??? Where are all these "unparalleled" wonder weapons?? They simply DO NOT ARE at the front. And probably will not be? You have to be a complete idiot to compare the protection of the M2 and BMP 2, 3, which do not even protect from shrapnel. Many watched the parade and, lo and behold... they saw the Kurganets. All normal people began to wonder how it is possible that the Indians are being persuaded to go to all lengths for delaying the adoption of new equipment, for embezzling budget funds, and they themselves are not far from these gypsies. My opinion is that the article was published precisely to justify the sloppiness and corruption, mutual responsibility because of which the troops still do not have modern, reliable (like the Soviet one in its time) and highly protected equipment.
  50. +1
    12 May 2025 21: 54
    Quote: Okko777
    What profound conclusions of political informants. What professionalism are we talking about? Horse marshals destroyed all the equipment and most of the army with complete superiority over the enemy, using the doctrine of little bloodshed and war on foreign territory under the threat of execution and hatred of the "Leader", who did not want to fight in 41?

    Jump-jump-jump-jump!
    Demand new manuals. Yours have been stale for about fifteen years.
  51. -1
    Yesterday, 15: 30
    Yeah, yeah, and how to storm in loaves and Nivas and mopeds is cool, and their NATO equipment is crap, it’s better to storm in an M113 than on a moped