Putin: Renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is a good and logical idea

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he thought it was a good idea to return the name Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd. However, the head of state specified that it was necessary to consult with residents first.

At a meeting with participants of the educational marathon "Knowledge. First", one of the young residents of the city thanked the Russian leader for renaming the Volgograd airport to "Stalingrad".

Thank you for renaming our city

“Apparently, having misspoke,” the girl said.

Putin asked her if she thought the city should also have its former name back. In response, the young participant in the event answered affirmatively without hesitation. The Volgograd resident said that the name was associated with the heroic history the city and the entire population would be very happy to see Volgograd return its name of Stalingrad. The opinion expressed by the Volgograd resident was warmly supported by her fellow countrymen who were present at the meeting with the president.

The head of state also recalled that in many European countries no one renamed cities, squares and avenues, and despite the deterioration of relations with Russia, there are still streets and squares named in honor of Stalingrad. Putin emphasized that the name Stalingrad is inextricably linked with the Victory.

Earlier, the Russian President supported the request of veterans of the Volgograd region to assign the Volgograd airport the historical name "Stalingrad".

Comments

[silverwolf88]

I think it is very appropriate to rename the city to Stalingrad... and this is also part of the historical truth for which our grandfathers paid with their lives

[THE USSR.]

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

[leks]

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

However, as shown by the Bloknot poll, in which more than 6 thousand people took part, the majority, namely 90% of participants, are against.
In February 2023, VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents of the region about changing the name of the city. 67% of Volgograd residents did not agree with the renaming, 26% of residents were in favor of changing the name.

What unanimous decision are you writing about?!

[esso]

Here is one example. Residents are against. We need to look to the Future with a Glance at the Past, and not the other way around.

[begemot20091]

What are you talking about? Expenses... F-i-d-....s jumping around the stage: sometimes a choir, sometimes a choir, .... let them throw money instead of their parties. The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause. And let VTsIOM choke on bile the same way it voted for the alcoholic Yeltsin.

[leks]

Quote: begemot20091

What are you talking about? Expenses... F-i-d-....s jumping around the stage: sometimes a choir, sometimes a choir, .... let them throw money instead of their parties. The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause. And let VTsIOM choke on bile the same way it voted for the alcoholic Yeltsin.

You exhale and breathe deeper!
You are told in Russian that the city residents themselves are mostly against renaming the city. This is not the first time they have tried this in 25 years and each time the local people are against it.

[begemot20091]

Yes, indeed... I remember completely different numbers. I remember the people voting for "personalities". And when the majority voted for Stalin, suddenly the numbers changed dramatically https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BC%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F

[leks]

Quote: begemot20091

Yes, indeed... I remember completely different numbers. I remember the people voting for "personalities". And when the majority voted for Stalin, suddenly the numbers changed dramatically https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BC%D1%8F_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F

It doesn't matter at all what you remember and what you think!
You better read the text carefully. Where I wrote in Russian that this initiative was not the first time in 25 years and always does not get a majority. There, not only VTsIOM conducts surveys, but also local Volgograd publics, in which the majority is against renaming the city.

[begemot20091]

"Po-russki" is an adverb = And I don't give a damn about your opinion. And publics for me are like a survey in a club of interested parties that VTsIOM pushes on the public. These people formed the backbone of this organization: Lev Gudkov, Boris Dubin, Lyudmila Khakulina, Alexey Levinson, Marina Krasilnikova.

[leks]

Believe me, the city residents also gave a huge damn. You can choke on your bile here, but the fact remains that in the end the decision will be made based on the choice of the residents, and it was against in the past and at the moment. So go take some valerian and calm down.

[bayard]

Quote: leks

based on the choice of the residents, and in the past and at the present moment it was against.

Are you absolutely sure about this?
What if we check? Survey the city's residents with a referendum, and not adjust the statistics to the liberals' wishes?
The whole world knows about Stalingrad on the Volga and the Battle of Stalingrad.
And no one knows Volgograd. Just like Syzran or Chuguev (no offense to these cities, but about their fame in the world). To live in a city famous throughout the world, in the battle for which the turning point in WWII occurred, or in faceless Volgograd... No need to treat people like guppies.

[leks]

Yes, I am sure of it and I have already answered this question above. But I will repeat once again that all the surveys that were conducted showed that the local people do not express a desire to rename the city. I will repeat once again that I have relatives and friends living there, none of them expressed FOR it.
Interesting position, so in your referendum people will all vote FOR, and the statistics are adjusted to show that they are against. You do not notice any dissonance in your proposal, since the same people who count in elections will be counting.
Or do you think that if Putin said he is not against it, then the people should run and vote FOR it.
That's exactly why you shouldn't take people for idiots, the whole world doesn't care. Take 100 people from this world and 90 of them won't be able to show where this city is, much less tell what it's famous for.

[bayard]

Quote: leks

So, in your referendum, people will all vote FOR, but the statistics are adjusted to show that they are against.

I didn't write about the universal vote "for", and I also have friends and acquaintances living there. How the youth jumped up and down at the words that the city's name could be returned, everyone saw on TV. How the People voted for "the best leader of Russia in its history", everyone also remembers. In addition, Stalingrad is our national Memory and Pride. Therefore, it would be right to hold a National Referendum. And what do you think the results of the vote will be then?
Moreover, the accountants have already been given a signal/message - "they are not against it in the arbitration tower, look, they have already renamed the Airport to Stalingrad", and the children have happiness in their eyes and emotions at the words that the city is also possible.

Quote: leks

Or do you think that if Putin said he is not against it, then the people should run and vote FOR it.

I think accountants will at least not add the number of "against" votes now. And your relatives alone will not be enough for sabotage.
We actually have two new nuclear icebreakers being laid down - "Stalingrad" and "Leningrad". The airport was named after Stalin's city... Do you know what Donetsk was called before it was renamed?
Stalino! And the region was Stalinskaya. My friend's place of birth is written that way in his passport. This is why after the victorious completion of the Debaltseve operation in early 2015, the first thing that was erected was a monument (bust) to Stalin. And why the medal for the participants of that operation has Stalin's profile on it.

Quote: leks

Take 100 people from this world and 90 of them will not be able to show where this city is.

Volgograd ??
I think that 98 people out of a hundred have never heard of him.
And many have heard about Stalingrad. Just like now about Donetsk.

[leks]

Well, yes! In our country, there are few other problems, and we will organize a national referendum on changing the name of the city. Instead of holding a referendum on more serious solutions to the people's problems.
Where are your youth jumping, perhaps in your head. Surveys of residents after the VVP's response show a completely different picture. By the way, regarding statistics, surveys, this is easy to find in a search engine, and if you try, you can even find references by year, starting from 2000, about how people reacted to this initiative
I wrote about Stalingrad that 90 percent will hardly remember what kind of city it is and where it is located. In Western countries, the emphasis in textbooks has long since shifted and the Eastern Front is mentioned in passing.

[bayard]

Quote: leks

! In our country, there are few other problems, and we will organize a national referendum

Why is the multi-colored one so afraid of the Referendum? The liberal president said that "the idea is good" and that "we need to consult with the people". So why not consult if the idea is good?
Or does the very name of Stalin make you cringe?
That's what the new nuclear icebreaker was called "Stalingrad".
And the Airport.
The war is going on again, again with fascism, against all of Europe.
If the idea is good and timely, the name will definitely be returned.
And the people will support.
For "Where Stalin is, there is Victory."
And if you, colorful "anyway" and have other things to do, then do them, why make faces on the forums?

[leks]

Why did you think that I was afraid of the referendum and why did you think that Stalin makes me cringe? Aren't you fantasizing too much and taking on too much when deciding who should and is obligated to do what?
You have some other data, well then provide it, otherwise you are just an empty shell who lives in her wet fantasies.
Even a national referendum won't save people like you.

[Ivan№One]

1. Some people are quite upset by the name of Stalin
2. On April 24, you wrote something about 80% of someone’s rating being drawn up, and here you write that someone is against it according to polls, but these ratings are supposedly not drawn up?!
Funny character

[leks]

Oh, one more thing
Come on, Ivashka, show me where the name of I.V. Stalin makes me cringe, take a screenshot of where I mentioned him, where it makes me cringe?
Well, for the retarded like you, I'll explain once again that the president's rating and the statistics on renaming a city are slightly different things. And you doubt that there is anyone against it or in your blue fantasies everyone will run to vote for renaming the city because some no-names like you and VO want it. I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that, reality is slightly different, unlike your blue looking glass.

[Grits]

Quote: leks

Surveys of residents after VVP's response show a completely different picture.

It's enough to look at the number of minuses that have been thrown at you here, and it's already quite clear that people like you and your relatives won't make a difference in the referendum.

[leks]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: leks

Surveys of residents after VVP's response show a completely different picture.

It's enough to look at the number of minuses that have been thrown at you here, and it's already quite clear that people like you and your relatives won't make a difference in the referendum.

I don't give a damn about the pros and cons, even if you downvote, it certainly won't make a difference and the city is unlikely to be renamed according to your wishes.
There are some losers here who sit here every day and comment on every post just to get a plus.

[Mitka]

Just stop worrying already!

[your1970]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: leks

Surveys of residents after VVP's response show a completely different picture.

It's enough to look at the number of minuses that have been thrown at you here, and it's already quite clear that people like you and your relatives won't make a difference in the referendum.

A highly specialized forum for military personnel and military retirees - deriving some statistics from it is nonsense.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And why is there a profile of Stalin on the medal for the participants of that operation?
Quote: leks
Take 100 people from this world and 90 of them will not be able to show where this city is.

Volgograd ??
I think that 98 people out of a hundred have never heard of him.
And many have heard about Stalingrad. Just like now about Donetsk.

There is a cool video - it's quite old, though, a year old 2003 - German TV journalists ask Spanish residents on the street - "which state is it part of "Does Poland enter?"
And the residents, about 15-20 people, confidently say, “It seems to be to Russia.”
And one elderly(!!) cheerfully says "In the USSR"
And you - "Stalingrad" is remembered abroad...
Japan has already been convinced that the USSR bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
So the name "Stalingrad" needs to be restored - but you shouldn't count on any effect from this abroad, purely for yourself and your memory.

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

And you - "Stalingrad" is remembered abroad...
Japan has already been convinced that the USSR bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

The thing is that the name "Stalingrad" in the West has long been used as a synonym for "defeat", or "complete f...k". They may not even remember/know where this city is, but the name of our city is known there in precisely this - a household word. Well, it's like the name of our river Berezina for the French.
And Stalingrad must be restored as a point of assembly for the Country and the People. Especially in such a disturbing, wartime. For Putin's name will not unite, no matter how hard you try with PR and fairy tales (Nikola-2 No. 2), but Stalin's name and the feat of the People in defending the city of his name - can. For this name is a symbol of Justice, Strength, Victory and Progress.
To win the war for our existence and survival we need the RIGHT symbols and reference points. Especially if we have nuclear communist Pyongyang as an ally.
Slander against Stalin first destroyed the Socialist Bloc, then the USSR, and now it is finishing off Russia. And slander against the glorious past and the impotence of power on the external circuit... the rampant arbitrariness, impunity and injustice on the internal circuit... will destroy any state.
This is what happened with the empire of Nikola-2.
There was a king who was deceived by everyone, and was unlucky in wars. No matter how fates like himself and the people conjure up... Usually unlearned lessons not only repeat tragedy, but also turn it into a farce.
Whose Victory will they celebrate under the Vlasov flag and with the boarded-up Mausoleum? The Vlasov standard, along with other Hitler standards, was thrown at the foot of the Mausoleum at the present Victory Parade. And with what eyes should veterans look at the current blasphemy? Isn't this the same farce in which Tragedy repeats itself?
... The land of unlearned lessons...

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

The thing is that the name "Stalingrad" in the West has long been used as a synonym for "defeat", or "complete f...k". They may not even remember/know where this city is, but the name of our city is known there in precisely this - a household word. Well, it's like the name of our river Berezina for the French.

This is how we usually think - both about Berezina and about Stalingrad. Because this is OUR pride and pain.
At the same time, for example, the fact that up to 35 million died in WWII in China - for us, “Well, that’s somewhere there, in China...”
It's the same in the EU - Dunkirk or Verdun are more important to them than anything else. ALIEN losses...
The same situation with Stalingrad: "Yes, I heard something, someone defeated someone!" (c).
Well, let's say you know a lot about the Nanking Massacre? You know that many people died, there were many rapes and other horrors, and that's probably all.
Who, where, when, with what forces - it is unlikely anymore...
But you have a classic Soviet education that wasn't strictly focused on your own country - and no one needed that there.

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

The same situation with Stalingrad: "Yes, I heard something, someone defeated someone!" (c).

With the name Stalingrad this will definitely not happen - the name is too sonorous and telling. It will definitely blow up many people there, especially in Europe. And this would be a very good message and reminder.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

It will definitely blow up many people there, especially in Europe.

Who will it blow up? Those who thought Georgia was in the USA? Yeah-yeah....
Or the senile fools from the EU and NATO?
So they do it FAA ... "in the piggy bank" Russia wants to attack Europe, they even remembered Stalin and renamed Stalingrad!!! We are preparing for war - Russia wants to invade us!! (C)

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

Or the senile fools from the EU and NATO?

Precisely them. And precisely because of Stalin's name.

Quote: your1970

So this is a FAT PLUS for them" Russia wants to attack Europe, look, they even remembered Stalin and renamed Stalingrad!!! We are preparing for war - Russia wants to invade us!! (C)

They are already preparing. But now in this preparation they will be reminded by the Sword of Damocles: "Remember Stalingrad".
Well, for our People it will be a signal for unity and internal mobilization.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

Well, for our People it will be a signal for unity and internal mobilization.

Well, well, readiness to unite - yes, here they are ready to gnaw at each other's throats for excellent from the general mass of opinion. I am a living example - I barely managed to get to the rank of colonel in 12 years, against your general and marshal stars.
And about the inner mobilization - it's a completely obscene joke...

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

Well, well, readiness to unite - here they are ready to gnaw at each other's throats for an opinion that differs from the general mass.

And while there was no debate about the role of the Battle of Stalingrad, there was unity. In the Union for sure.

Quote: your1970

I barely made it to the rank of colonel in 12 years, compared to your general and marshal stars.

Well, it's more about popularity, relevance, professionalism and the ability to play on the hype, well, and from activity. With previous registrations, I reached the rank of colonel two or three times, and only in Donbass did I become a general. It's just that my health has diminished, and time has appeared.

Quote: your1970

And as for internal mobilization - that's a completely obscene joke...

And to fight for the billions (in USD) of Deripaska, Vekselberg and other Rotenbergs, for the cause of Gaidar, Chubais and Yeltsin with his Center? For me it's just a farce. "Like under Nikola-2."
Our entire reality now is predominantly obscene.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And while there was no debate about the role of the Battle of Stalingrad, there was unity. In the Union for sure.

Well, actually it's Malaya Zemlya was in first place in importance , and then Stalingrad and Kursk...

Quote: bayard

And to fight for the billions (in USD) of Deripaska, Vekselberg and other Rotenbergs, for the cause of Gaidar, Chubais and Yeltsin with his Center? For me, this is just a farce. "Like under Nikola-2."

there is piquancy - It would be better if you didn't remember about Kolya2 ...
"In this book, "Russia in the World War 1914-1918 (in figures)," Moscow, 1925, published by the Department of Military Statistics of the Soviet Central Statistical Administration, there is a table titled: "The movement of the number of deserters from the beginning of the war to August 1, 1917 (according to Headquarters data)." From the beginning of World War I until the February Revolution of 1, the total number of deserters was 1917 people. Is this a lot or a little?
The book contains data on the size of the Russian army at the beginning of 1917. Unfortunately, I do not have exact figures for January and February 1917.
In total, 1917 people were called up for military service by the beginning of 14. Of these:
Killed - 1.
The wounded and sick on leave - 1.
Prisoners - 2.
Registered deserters - 180.
There are 6 in the active army.
There are 2 reserve troops in the internal military districts.
In the departments, institutions and units subordinate to the Minister of War - 350.
Total -14."
Under the cursed ancestors

Quote: bayard

Deripaska, Vekselberg and other Rotenbergs,

- deserted 180 000 human.
Those who did not want to fight for billions...
There were no fewer people who did not want to fight for billions... pardon me, for Soviet power.
The numbers are fluctuating, but there were definitely between 170 and 200 during WWII.
One Baltic ran until 1993
That is, whether for people's power or for billions, a comparable number of people did not want to fight.

[bayard]

Is there no desire to compare the numbers of armies? About 35 million people were drafted into the Red/Soviet Army during the entire war, and the war lasted 4 years (not 3 for us, like WWI). That is, under Soviet power there were 2,5 times fewer deserters than in WWI, although the first two years of the war were very difficult and unsuccessful for us. Unlike WWI, when we were on the offensive from the first days, and then there were setbacks. And we fought either on foreign territory or in the border regions of the Russian Empire. So the degree of threat to the country was an order of magnitude less, and that is why there were no incentives for desertion.
There is nothing to compare with the current atrocity - the army is tiny at the beginning of the Central Military District, and there are a ton of deserters. Even now, in total, we have, God willing, 2,5 million, and more and more of them are under contract, and only contract soldiers are fighting. And there are no more deserters from the very first months of the Central Military District than in both first wars (at least separately). Therefore, on average and without taking into account all factors, in today's bourgeoisie the percentage of deserters and traitors is 15-30 times higher than in the USSR in the Great Patriotic War. And this is without taking into account that now only volunteer contract soldiers are fighting, and then there was a General Mobilization.
So it turns out that in the USSR there were 2,5-3 times fewer traitors and deserters than in the Russian Empire, and 15-30 times fewer than in the liberal-feudal bourgeoisie of modern times.
Progress, really?
When raising "ideal consumers" you won't get anything else.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And there is no desire to compare the numbers of armies? About 35 million people were drafted into the Red/Soviet Army during the entire war, and the war lasted 4 years (and not 3 for us, like WWI).

You forgot one small one nuance - this is the number of those brought to criminal responsibility, and not the total number of deserters.
Two - supposedly missing - the grandfather shot one and frostbitten the other while dragging him 30 km through the snow on a rope to the police station. Both of them were not included in the statistics of those brought to criminal responsibility
The total number of deserters is estimated at 910.
But not the point ...

Quote: bayard

So it turns out that in the USSR there were 2,5-3 times fewer traitors and deserters than in the Russian Empire, and 15-30 times fewer than in the liberal-feudal bourgeoisie of modern times.

We open the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926
And oh::::
1932.

a) Failure to comply with an order given in the course of duty is punishable by imprisonment for up to five years;
d) the same crime committed in a combat situation is punishable by the highest measure of criminal punishment - execution with confiscation of all property. (October 20, 1934 (SU No. 39, Art. 237)).
I937 .

a) Unauthorized absence of a private or junior commanding officer for up to two hours, committed for the first time, shall entail—

referral to a comradely court or disciplinary punishment.

b) Unauthorized absence committed by the same persons more than once for up to two hours or for a period exceeding two hours at least once, shall entail—
trial by a military tribunal with assignment to a disciplinary battalion for a period of two months to two years, and in the presence of mitigating circumstances, disciplinary punishment.
d) Unauthorized absence for more than 24 hours is desertion and entails—
imprisonment for a term of five to ten years, and in wartime - the highest measure of punishment - execution with confiscation of property. (Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, July 6, 1940).

d) The acts provided for in paragraphs “a” and “b” of this article, committed by persons of middle, senior, higher and junior long-term service of the command staff, shall entail —
imprisonment for a term of not less than two years, with or without confiscation of property, and in wartime - the highest measure of social protection with confiscation of property.
1939.

a) Unauthorized abandonment of a unit or place of service in a combat situation entails -
the highest measure of social protection with confiscation of property.
19310a.
Avoiding conscription for mobilization into the ranks of the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army and from further calls for staffing the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army as part of wartime entails -
imprisonment for a term of not less than one year, and for persons in command - not less than two years, with confiscation of all or part of the property, with an increase, in especially aggravating circumstances, to the highest measure of social protection - execution, with confiscation of property. (January 10, 1931 (SU No. 5, Art. 46)).
19312.

a) Evasion by a serviceman of military service duties by causing himself any injury or by feigning illness, forgery of documents or other deception -

punishable by imprisonment for up to five years
c) The same crime committed in wartime or in a combat situation is punishable by the highest measure of criminal punishment - execution with confiscation of all property. (October 20, 1931 (SU No. 39, Art. 237)).

In the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, almost all military crimes - in wartime, up to and including execution.

Quote: bayard

Progress, really?
When raising "ideal consumers" you won't get anything else.

Of course progress is under the Tsars with a war for billionaires and without such a number of death sentences for the Armed Forces - the number of deserters is 2 times greater.

Do you get the idea? Everyone is shouting that executions help against corruption in China - which means they helped against deserters in the Red Army too...

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

so it also helped against deserters in the Red Army...

It always helps.

Quote: your1970

under the Tsars, with a war for billionaires and without such a number of death sentences for the Armed Forces, the number of deserters was 2 times greater.

Twice this is taking into account the number of armies, and if you consider that WWII lasted more than 4 years (taking into account the war with Japan), and WWI for Russia less than 3 years? That's why not two, but three times. And under tsarism, statistics were also edited and not everything was taken into account.
And now even just the number of those who submitted reports for dismissal with the beginning of the SVO shows such a figure... And if we also count the stormtroopers of Upper Lars? They are definitely deserters. All of them. And the number of those who made excuses or did not show up for mobilization? But only 300 thousand were called up for mobilization. And what if there were a million? What if there were three million?
That's where the bourgeois dog dug up the mess. And if it weren't for the realization that it's for oneself, for one's own people, and there's no other way... who would willingly go to fight for them?
For the mortgage rate from Nabiullina and the banking company?
For Lisa Peskova?
For the foreigners who have come here?
For Yeltsin Center?
For the Mausoleum boarded up during parades and the guarantee of all guarantees without responsibility for one’s own words and deeds?
For the right to die out at a Stakhanovite pace?
For the corona madness and compliance with all orders from insectoids (remember the lectures of Manturov and Co. on the benefits of eating insects)?
So, taking into account Upper Lars, the efficiency of modern power is not 30-40 times, but several hundred times lower than the efficiency of Stalin's people's commissars. And a comparison of supreme commanders-in-chief... this is generally incomparable. Because even in comparison with the Russian Empire, the efficiency is at least two orders of magnitude lower.
This is not even degradation... it is simply impossible to describe in words. And precisely as a system.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And if it weren’t for the realization that it’s for themselves, for their own people, and there’s no other way... who would willingly go to fight for them?

I repeat - you just saw it for yourself

Quote: bayard

That's why it's not two, but three times

that for an absolutely bourgeois government and for an absolutely popular government the number of deserters differed not by a billion times but only by three (!!!!!)

Quote: bayard

Who would willingly go to fight for them?
For the mortgage rate from Nabiullina and the banking company?
For Lisa Peskova?
For the foreigners who have come here?
For Yeltsin Center?

-I repeat, only three times more in the Russian Empire

Quote: bayard

So, taking into account Upper Lars, the effectiveness of modern power is not 30-40 times, but several hundred times lower than the effectiveness of Stalin’s people’s commissars.

- considering that there are about 910 deserters in the Great Patriotic War, and the country is not hermetically sealed like in Stalin's USSR, I am not surprised by the number of people who fled. If the border had been opened under Stalin, I am afraid to even imagine. That is why the border was kept closed until the very end - the people wanted to escape from people's socialism too quickly. And in the opposite direction -
Well, for some reason, no way.
And when the border was opened, the children of all the General Secretaries (except one son) and all the grandchildren ran off to the decaying West. All the children of the Politburo members are there too.
Such a communist Upper Lars...

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

Such a communist Upper Lars...

Trotskyists traitors. And traitors have no Motherland.
Besides, it was often simply dangerous for these same children to stay in the Russian Federation in the 90s. Especially since there was no difference in ideology any more. But in the Russian Federation there was poverty and terror (gangster and state), so they had enough motives.

Quote: your1970

for an absolutely bourgeois government and for an absolutely popular government the number of deserters differed not by a billion times but only by three (!!!!!)

Because there was no alternative to the Russian Empire anyway. And the war is a World War. Where can a peasant run? His family at home is left without a breadwinner...
It's a different story NOW.
Hundreds of times!
And there is something to compare with.
So we need to compare WWII and SVO.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

It's a different story NOW.
Hundreds of times!
And there is something to compare with.
So we need to compare WWII and SVO

I repeat - if the borders were closed as in the USSR and the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926 was in effect - there would be no deserters, if the borders were opened in the USSR and the Criminal Code of the RSFSR was abolished in WWII - I can't even predict the order of the numbers.

You were outraged that

Quote: bayard

And if it weren’t for the realization that it’s for themselves, for their own people, and there’s no other way... who would willingly go to fight for them?
For the mortgage rate from Nabiullina and the banking company?
For Lisa Peskova?
For the foreigners who have come here?

We move the USSR aside and look around, and there, oh my - WITHOUT Socialists fight for the damned capitalists of their own free will.
The Wehrmacht fought poorly under the capitalists? The American army against the Japanese?
Did the Russian Imperial Army fight poorly in WWI?

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

WITHOUT socialism they fight for the damned capitalists of their own free will.
The Wehrmacht fought poorly under the capitalists? The American army against the Japanese?
Did the Russian Imperial Army fight poorly in WWI?

I compared the STATE EFFICIENCY of one and the same people in three wars, historical periods and in three state ideologies.

Quote: your1970

if the borders were closed like in the USSR and the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926 was in effect, there would be no deserters,

Well, here's an example of a fragment of the Russian Empire/USSR - Ukraine:
- the borders are closed,
- mobilization is general, total, forced.
- deserters, ukhilants and khovanshchiks (hiding from the TCC on the territory of the former) more than half of the male population. Today I think that it is already no less than 75%, because half of the population simply migrated, and more than half of the remaining are hiding or trying to leave this death concentration camp by any means.
It turns out that the most disgusting form of state power and the most ineffective form of government is the Kiev regime of the fascists of the former Ukrainian SSR.
And people are creatures that can be controlled, influenced, therefore, without receiving a quality education, upbringing and not being able to think critically... they behave differently in different conditions. A hoarder and an ideal consumer will not risk their lives for the sake of... it doesn't even matter for whom... And the percentage of passionate volunteers never exceeds 10%. Therefore, relying exclusively on volunteers is a crime. Just as a crime is a violent, general busification without any chance of success in a war.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

I compared the STATE EFFICIENCY of one and the same people in three wars, historical periods and in three state ideologies.

The difference in deserters DOCUMENTED - 3 times.
Differences in unaccounted for "primaks" and the like - NO.
But even if there is, you once again forget that Soviet deserters were stopped by the Criminal Code of the RSFSR - by execution. Which was not in the RIA and is not in the RF Armed Forces now.

Quote: bayard

Ukraine :
- the borders are closed,

The border that can be crossed with 5 euros is wide open. As a former customs officer, I can guarantee that.

Quote: bayard

mobilization is general, total, forced.

- mobilization becomes total - when evasion means death, and for the state too. Other mobilization options are not total. In Ukraine, the TCC members do not have the right to use weapons against either evaders or those who fight them off.

Quote: bayard

A homeowner and an ideal consumer will not risk their lives for the sake of... it doesn’t even matter for whom...

Once again, the American hut-scratcher and ideal consumer fought with Japan, the Wehrmacht hut-scratcher and consumer fought with the USSR
Wake up - ALL wars in the world over the last 200 years have been waged the hut-scratchers and ideal consumers, there are very few Soviet people in this crowd.

Quote: bayard

The percentage of passionate volunteers never exceeds 10%.

hmm. Does this work all over the world or is the USSR an exception?

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

The difference in deserters is DOCUMENTED - 3 times.

Now it doesn't matter to compare the Russian Empire and the USSR. Three times, so three times, who kept these statistics? And where could a Russian man run from mobilization, if his family was without a breadwinner and remained hostage? So there is not much difference with the Union in terms of freedom of movement. And peasants in the Russian Empire were 3-82% (according to different sources). And Russian men did not run anywhere, and the percentage of urban hipsters was vanishingly small.
But it is necessary and essential to compare the Russian Federation and the USSR. And if the number of deserters and runners is hundreds of times greater in terms of the number of conscripts (volunteers, contract soldiers, it is better not to count them at all, because they did it of their own free will. This difference of several hundred times shows the effectiveness of the state, the political system, and ideology.
Only 300 thousand were called up in the Russian Federation, and according to various estimates, about 2 million fled abroad (maybe 1 million, but this is the number that is most often voiced). The number is unprecedented, because they were not even called up. The hipsters simply panicked.
So the effectiveness of the Russian state is assessed by this figure. Education, personality development, sense of duty (lack thereof) to the Motherland, quality of public administration, planning, control, accounting... Taken together, this is simply the bottom... if not of the Mariana Trench, then of Lake Baikal for sure.

Quote: your1970

Quote: bayard
the percentage of passionate volunteers never exceeds 10%. hmm. Does this work all over the world or is the USSR an exception?

These are statistical observations. And 10% is quite a high figure. In a consumer society it is much lower.

Quote: your1970

The border that can be crossed with 5 euros is wide open. As a former customs officer, I can guarantee that.

Prices there have long been higher. And the customs officers hand over suckers to the TSK owners, having previously received money from them for passage. That is why the border is now being broken through both by individuals and by organized groups, because it is no longer possible to survive in the reservation.
But at the same time, the fascist regime is carrying out mobilization quite successfully - the numerical strength of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is maintained at a fairly high level, the flow of recruits does not dry up. So if we are not talking about methods, but about the result - they are working effectively.
But long ago beyond the bounds of good and evil.

Quote: your1970

the American hut-screener and ideal consumer fought Japan, the Wehrmacht hut-screener and consumer fought the USSR

Neither the Japanese, nor the Germans, nor the Americans were hut-scratchers. Nor were they runners or deserters. Their state machines and propaganda were very perfect and the population was prepared for war and mobilization.
The Khataskrayniki are all deserters who wrote reports of dismissal at the beginning of the SVO, these are all the stormtroopers of Upper Lars, this is about 10 million refugees from Ukraine at the beginning of the SVO - male.
And in Germany, Japan, the USA and the USSR during WWII, ORDINARY PEOPLE fought - ordinary citizens of their countries. They were called up - they fought. Some better, some worse. But in general, the Japanese, Americans and Germans fought well. As did the Soviet soldiers. Only the work on the fronts of Europe had to be taken away mainly by Russian soldiers. Because the war was mainly against us.
And the USA and England fought mainly at sea, and in the air. And their conditions in that war were much more comfortable.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And in Germany, Japan, the USA and the USSR during WWII, ORDINARY PEOPLE fought - ordinary citizens of their countries. They were called up - they fought. Some better, some worse. But overall, the Japanese, Americans, and Germans fought well. As did the Soviet soldiers. .

-that is, you admit that COMMON PEOPLE with ANYONE do they fight well???What DOESN'T matter - do they have capitalism or socialism or national socialism???
and now remember:

Quote: bayard

That's where she - the bourgeois dog dug up. And if it weren't for the realization that for yourself, for your own, and there is no other way... Who would willingly go to fight for them?
For the mortgage rate from the Federal Reserve or the Prussian Mortgage Bank?
According - the list is extremely long, whether in the USA or in the Third Reich?
For the aliens who came?" In the 1910s-1930s, there was a mass migration of blacks from the South to large industrial cities in the North. In the social mythology of African Americans living in the southern states, Detroit became something like a promised land. The expression "When I die, bury me in Detroit" even became popular.
In 1940, of Detroit's 1,6 million residents, about 149 were black."

For blacks, billionaires, corrupt politicians, mortgages with extortionate interest rates - but did they fight well? And they went en masse of their own free will...

Quote: bayard

So the effectiveness of the Russian state is assessed by this figure. Education, personality development, sense of duty (lack thereof) to the Motherland, quality of public administration, planning, control, accounting... Taken together, this is simply the bottom... if not of the Mariana Trench, then of Lake Baikal for sure.

- that is, 910 Soviet deserters - "this does not count, it's pretend," and draconian methods of reducing this number are a joke, and the Russian Federation is the bottom?
Hmm ......

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

- that is, 910 Soviet deserters - "this doesn't count, it's just make-believe," and the draconian methods of reducing this number are a joke, and the Russian Federation is the bottom?
Hmm ......

The numbers are growing. Where did it come from?
During the war years, 35-37 million people were drafted into the USSR.
In the Russian Federation, 300 thousand were called up. But Verkhniy Lars was taken by about 2 million hipster deserters. And this is not to mention the so-called "internal desertion". There is nothing to compare here. But the Mariana Trench in a neighboring country - half of the population there fled abroad since the beginning of the Central Military District.

Quote: your1970

- so you admit that ORDINARY PEOPLE fight well under ANY system???

The common people in any TRADITIONAL society serve and fight normally and sometimes even well. The USA, Japan and Germany were traditional states and societies. The perverts never fought well anywhere. But they often distinguished themselves and like to serve in punitive structures.

Quote: your1970

In 1940, of Detroit's 1,6 million residents, about 149 were black."

This is less than 10%!!! Look at any city in the USA now.
And in Detroit, blacks WORKED. And now they simply live on benefits in big cities, sell drugs, engage in crime, and the overwhelming majority have never worked at all. And they are already about 20%.

Quote: your1970

Is Russia really the bottom?

The quality of public administration, planning, accounting, the responsibility of officials for crimes, sabotage and negligent performance of duties, the cult of official theft and bribery, the dependence of the authorities on foreign and international structures, intelligence agencies and governments... isn't it rock bottom?
Isn't it rock bottom when in the first month of Partial Mobilization of 300 thousand reservists 2 million people flee the country abandoning their cars at border crossings? It's a complete failure. Down to that very rock bottom.
For 300 thousand reservists called up for mobilization, there were 2 million deserters who left the country in panic.
And how many are there among the 35-37 million mobilized in the USSR during the Great Patriotic War?
About 200 thousand?
A commoner is not a hoveler. A commoner is a law-abiding citizen of his state, a good worker, a good warrior, a good family man. Passionaries for different states of society and in different societies - from 2 to 10%. In a stable society there are about the same number of degenerates. But in modern Western and Russian society before the SVO the percentage of degenerates was/is much higher. And this is the merit of the authorities - the executors of the agendas about "tolerance, tolerance and diversity", about "stimulating embezzlement by officials and the inadmissibility of their responsibility before the law", "about preventing the development of high-tech production and high technologies", "about sabotaging military shipbuilding programs and embezzling budgets for ships under construction", "about the extreme desirability and usefulness of a Small Army for a Big State, so as not to pose a serious threat to the enemy in the event of war", "about banning the development of civil aircraft manufacturing and aircraft engine building". And many other funny things. This is not just the Bottom, this is the Foundation of the Universe.

Quote: your1970

draconian methods of reducing this number

Such measures were then in Japan and Germany, I can't say about the USA - I don't know. And in WWI such measures were in all the warring countries and armies.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

During the war years, 35-37 million people were drafted into the USSR.
300 thousand were called up to the Russian Federation. But Upper Lars was taken by about 2 million hipster deserters

In the USSR the border was totally closed, desertion was punishable by execution. How many would have fled the USSR if the borders had been opened in 1941 and the punishment had been reduced to the current one - certainly 2 million would not have gotten off.
Some deserters hid in the USSR until the 1980s - the Criminal Code of the RSFSR worked so well. One was hiding in the Baltics until 1993
Again

Quote: your1970

Wake up - ALL wars in the world over the last 200 years have been waged by hovel-scratchers and ideal consumers, and there are very few Soviet people in this crowd.

In the world - total capitalism and all wars are waged between capitalist countries. And it was for capitalism that the Americans, the Japanese and the Wehrmacht died - you admit that they fought well.

Quote: bayard

This is not just the Bottom, this is the Foundation of the Universe.

You live at the bottom and "Everything is lost!", I live in conventional Russia which always was such a country - "Russia is ruled directly by God, otherwise it is impossible to explain how it still exists" (c)

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

"Russia is ruled directly by God, otherwise it is impossible to explain how it still exists" (c)

Fairy tale words of a fairy tale character from a fairy tale story.
Russia was indeed ruled at one time by the creator of this universe, but this was the period of the rule of Comrade Stalin.
So it was a coincidence?
The darkness before, the decay after, and the Supernova (star) explosion in a short period from the early 30s to the mid-50s. It is on the potential of that explosion that we are alive to this day.

Quote: your1970

How many would have fled the USSR if the borders had been opened in 1941 and the punishment had been reduced to the current one - certainly 2 million would not have gotten off.

Why be like the degenerates of our time? At that time, similar laws were in all/almost all warring countries. And such laws were in effect during WWI. The effectiveness of the State is assessed by the ability to solve complex problems with available resources. Stalin's USSR brilliantly solved any problems without having serious scientific, technical and personnel potential to start with.
The current ones after the coup received a nuclear and technological superpower, and reduced it to the level when they are not capable of making nails. They forgot how to build civil and transport aircraft, ship and aircraft engines. When the war began on June 22, 1941, queues of volunteers at the military registration and enlistment offices immediately grew. And not queues of ukhilyans at the border crossings.

Quote: your1970

You live at the bottom and "All is lost!"

I have been living at war for 11 years now. From here it is easier to see who God controls and where the devils are having fun.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

Russia was indeed ruled at one time by the creator of this universe, but this was the period of the rule of Comrade Stalin.

If a country can be well governed only during the period of one person, the country is doomed, which the USSR confirmed.
Collective rule has become a fiction.

Quote: bayard

When the war began on June 22, 1941, queues of volunteers immediately grew at the military registration and enlistment offices. And not queues of Ukhylyants at the border crossings.

- there were no border crossings , and there was nothing to give the border guards as a bribe.... And execution at the same time.
Nevertheless, the "Tashkent Front" operated at a rapid pace throughout the war, "primaks" were caught in herds, and those who attacked the commandant's patrol were shot - which testifies to the desire to break through to the rear by any means necessary.
170 criminally punished deserters, 000 recorded in abandonment of the unit. But no one even approximately knows the number of "primaks" and how many of the missing deserted.

Even if the USSR had only 27 deserters, like the American army fighting for capitalism and billionaires, it would still be a huge number for a country fighting for socialism and people's power.

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

If a country can be well governed only during the period of one man

The same can be said about the Russian Empire - under Alexander III the country was governed relatively well, but it only took Nikola II for the great Empire to turn into the smoking ruins of the revolution in a matter of days. Not to mention the post-Soviet period and to this day.
Moreover, under the USSR and after Stalin, the country was managed quite well, but this was the inertia of the previous government, its legacy, personnel and the economic structure created at that time.

Quote: your1970

Collective rule has become a fiction.

Of course, this is a lie. The leadership of the USSR was always collegial. And under Stalin too. Another thing is his authority and ability to find "the only correct solution" in the most difficult situations.

Quote: your1970

The Tashkent Front operated at a rapid pace throughout the war, and “primaks” were caught in herds

Stop your anti-Semitism! People were simply looking for their place in life. And the state helped them. But everyone fought then, including the Jews. And they fought well.

Quote: your1970

only 27 deserters as in the American army

They were mainly conscripted into the Navy and the Air Force. The Ground Army entered the war only in 1944. They had no reason to - deserters rarely flee from a victorious army.

Quote: your1970

910 recorded in the abandonment of the unit.

Even if the figure is correct, it is only 2,5% of all mobilized. And the deserters were mainly from regions that had just been annexed from the USSR - Western Ukraine, Western Belarus, the Baltics, Bessarabia. Moreover, entire units, and even divisions, were formed from such people. These did not even have time to live under the USSR, so they were not particularly eager to fight for their new homeland.
But in the Russian Federation, only to compensate for the loss of deserters who wrote reports, it was necessary to conduct a "partial mobilization" of 300 thousand. At the same time, only 2 million deserters fled the country. This is where the Statistics and the quality of the state as such are. This is also the assessment of their leadership for 30 years.

Quote: your1970

It's a lot for a country fighting for socialism and people's power

The army of the "country fighting for socialism and People's Power" after three years and two months of war with all of Europe had already passed through almost all of Poland. And the Russian Armed Forces still haven't taken Krasnoarmeysk. They will. But the comparison is so-so. And precisely because of the quality of government. The people are one, the states are different.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

Moreover, entire units, and even divisions, were formed from such people. These did not even have time to live under the USSR, and therefore were not particularly eager to fight for their new homeland.

They OFFICIALLY did not become deserters - how to hold accountable a division that fled entirely? They did not even make it into the 910 - these national divisions.

But we've gone round in circles - I'm saying that if under capitalism deserters are normal (nobody wants to die for the bourgeois billionaires), then under socialism this is complete nonsense.
You admit that capitalist armies fought and died for the capitalists no worse than the Red Army.

Quote: bayard

At the same time, there were 2 million deserters who fled the country alone.

Quote: bayard

And precisely because of the quality of public administration

Of course, start shooting deserters - and the quality will immediately increase sharply - like in the USSR with closed borders and executions for all military crimes during wartime.
And yes, the majority of "VO" commentators would have received a death sentence for their comments as "Participants in a military-anti-Soviet conspiracy."

Quote: bayard

The people are one, the states are different.

The people have also become very different...

[bayard]

These are just statistics. And they speak for themselves.
In addition, the Civil War had just recently ended in the country and there were quite a few opponents of the Soviet government at that time. But the war put everything in its place and after the war many White Guards returned to the USSR from emigration. They already during the war (especially at the end) said "If we knew WHAT kind of state they were going to build, we would never have fought them." They were especially touched by the fact that the Soviet Army returned shoulder straps and in general it was the Russian Army that entered Europe, even with its appearance.

Quote: your1970

The people have also become very different...

And who made him like this?

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

These are just statistics. And they speak for themselves.

that is, when you need to confirm its position - you attract Upper Lars, and those of yours who have scattered in different directions - "It's just statistics"???

[bayard]

Verkhniy Lars was stormed by the same “ours” who had taken up a deep defensive position on the Tashkent front.
And these are just statistics that are learned through comparison and by the achieved results.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

Verkhniy Lars was stormed by the same “ours” who had taken up a deep defensive position on the Tashkent front.

Should we add those who fled to Tashkent to the deserters?
The Runaways then in Tashkent - this is the current Upper Lars - the borders were closed tightly, so we only made it to Tashkent.
By the way, I don’t know about the rest - but from Kazakhstan the main bulk - about 350 - returned back to the Russian Federation during 000-2023. They were simply very scared people...

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

Just people who were very scared.

Well, it’s like when they hear the command “Get out!” some ask “Where to?” and others “Who?”

[bayard]

Can you imagine what would have happened with a General Mobilization? I'm afraid that we would have ended up with a similar buffification.
Conclusion: under Stalin, the efficiency of the state and power was 30-40 times higher than under the current system/regime/structure.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

We are absolutely sure that most of the city residents know very well who Dzhugashvili (Stalin) is. And you know it. If you dream of becoming a vertukhai, then no one is against it, go there. But what do the city residents have to do with it?

[bayard]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

But what do the city residents have to do with this?

The referendum will show.
Where do you work part-time as a guard?

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

I've always been interested in the psychotype of an individual who wants to lie down under Stalin. Who is he? A masochist who dreams of being among the repressed, or a sadist who wants to be among the torturers. And of course, you need to lie down under a non-Russian. Would an Uzbek suit you? There are so many of them on the streets now.

[bayard]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Is Uzbek right for you?

An Uzbek will approach you. He is in your city. You invited him. You should be happy with him. And under Stalin, Uzbeks lived in Uzbekistan, studied in a Soviet school and worked for the good of the country.

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

There are so many of them on the streets now.

Under liberalism it can't be any other way. The blacks from the Central African Republic haven't arrived yet, wait.

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

I've always been interested in the psychotype of an individual who wants to lie down under

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

A masochist who dreams of being among the repressed, or a sadist

Don't you feel sick of yourself?

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Definitely, you need to lie down under a non-Russian.

Stalin called himself "a Russian man of Georgian nationality". In 10 years of Industrialization, he brought the country from ruin and bast shoes to the Second World Economy in 1940. He won the monstrous War against the united Europe. He was the first among European countries to restore the economy after the war (reaching the pre-war level of production). In record time, he created nuclear weapons, which saved the USSR from a new, already nuclear war. Under him, the population of the USSR and the RSFSR grew at a very high rate. Families were usually large.
What was your reign famous for after the 1991 coup?

[Grits]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

I have always been interested in the psychotype of an individual who wants to lie down under Stalin. Who is he? A masochist who dreams of being among the repressed, or a sadist who wants to be among the torturers.

To once again become rooted in your rightness, go and reread Solzhenitsyn again.

[Mitka]

Oh, another inadequate person has emerged! Go have some wine and cookies.

[your vsr 66-67]

Quote: leks

Quote: begemot20091

What are you talking about? Expenses... F-i-d-....s jumping around the stage: sometimes a choir, sometimes a choir, .... let them throw money instead of their parties. The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause. And let VTsIOM choke on bile the same way it voted for the alcoholic Yeltsin.

You exhale and breathe deeper!
You are told in Russian that the city residents themselves are mostly against renaming the city. This is not the first time they have tried this in 25 years and each time the local people are against it.

So who are the local people? Those who grew up with smartphones? Or those who lay in the ruins of Stalingrad with a rifle and a machine gun?

[leks]

Quote: your vsr 66-67

Quote: leks

Quote: begemot20091

What are you talking about? Expenses... F-i-d-....s jumping around the stage: sometimes a choir, sometimes a choir, .... let them throw money instead of their parties. The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause. And let VTsIOM choke on bile the same way it voted for the alcoholic Yeltsin.

You exhale and breathe deeper!
You are told in Russian that the city residents themselves are mostly against renaming the city. This is not the first time they have tried this in 25 years and each time the local people are against it.

So who are the local people? Those who grew up with smartphones? Or those who lay in the ruins of Stalingrad with a rifle and a machine gun?

The local people are those who currently live in this city. It's strange that I have to explain this to you. What does a smartphone have to do with it? Do you use a push-button phone or something?
Those who lay there with a rifle and a machine gun and defended the city have long since left this world and they are absolutely indifferent to what is happening in this world and what the city will be called or do you have statistics from the other world.

[Grits]

Quote: leks

Those who lay there with a rifle and a machine gun and defended the city have long since left this world and they are absolutely indifferent to what is happening in this world and what the city will be called or do you have statistics from the other world.

But it is not indifferent to me, the grandson of that soldier who lay behind the machine gun.

[Valery Mamai]

Those who lay there with a rifle and a machine gun and defended the city have long since left this world and they are absolutely indifferent
Your quote.
In 1961, my father (a machine gun platoon commander, a defender of Stalingrad) was 39 years old, I was 10. I remember the day when the radio announced the renaming of Stalingrad to Volgograd and his reaction and regret: "They shouldn't have done that."
So, I have conveyed to you the opinion of one defender of Stalingrad, who “left this world”.

[leks]

Eternal memory to your father and those like him who went through the hell of the Great Patriotic War.

But a logical question arises: why didn't the people come out and defend the city's name in those years when Stalingrad was renamed Volgograd? In 1961, millions of former soldiers and hundreds of thousands of those who defended and defended the city were still alive.
What is this minority experiencing now, or rather over the last 25 years?
Why didn't local pensioners in their younger years in the 70s and 80s raise this issue, didn't they try to organize a referendum, so to speak, or ask Brezhnev or Gorbachev. Was it much easier to return back when the memory was still fresh or not?

[Valery Mamai]

PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE RSFSR
DECREE
from xnumx october xnumx year
On renaming the Stalingrad region to the Volgograd region and the city of Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd


Taking into account the wishes and requests of the teams of industrial enterprises, construction sites, state farms, collective farms and institutions, as well as the petitions of public organizations of the Stalingrad region, rename the Stalingrad region to the Volgograd region and the city of Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd.



Chairman of the Presidium
Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR
N. Organov


Secretary Member of the Presidium
Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR
S. Orlov
Moscow, November 10, 1961

"At the request of the workers"

[leks]

Quote: Valery Mamai

PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE RSFSR
DECREE
from xnumx october xnumx year
On renaming the Stalingrad region to the Volgograd region and the city of Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd


Taking into account the wishes and requests of the teams of industrial enterprises, construction sites, state farms, collective farms and institutions, as well as the petitions of public organizations of the Stalingrad region, rename the Stalingrad region to the Volgograd region and the city of Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd.



Chairman of the Presidium
Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR
N. Organov


Secretary Member of the Presidium
Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR
S. Orlov
Moscow, November 10, 1961

"At the request of the workers"

Ah, so that's how it was. Now they're trying to correct the mistakes of their youth.

[Valery Mamai]

The mass renaming of cities was preceded by the 22nd Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), which ended on October 31, 1961. At it, the issue of the final "eradication of Stalin's personality cult" was once again raised. The result of the congress was a recommendation, or in fact an order, to rename all geographical objects in the country whose names contained the leader's first and last name. The reaction from local authorities at the regional and republican level followed immediately.

The first city was renamed a few days after the congress ended. On November 5, 1961, Stalinsk became Novokuznetsk. Five days later, on November 5, Stalingrad was renamed Volgograd, Stalinabad was renamed Dushanbe, on November 10, Stalinogorsk in the Tula region was renamed Novomoskovsk, and on November 13, 24, Staliniri became Tskhinvali.
Source: https://bloknot-volgodonsk.ru/news/kak-stalingrad-sobiralis-pereimenovat-v-volgodonsk

[AlxR Nevsky]

The locals are those who rebuilt Tsaritsyn-Stalingrad-Volgograd, those who built the largest hydroelectric power station at that time. At the time of construction, in 1950, the Volga hydroelectric power station was considered the largest in the world. These are those who built the most important Volga-Don Canal named after Stalin at that time (they erected the largest monument to him at the entrance to the canal), but after Stalin's death it was immediately renamed the Lenin Canal, and the monument to Stalin was dismantled and the tallest monument to Lenin in the world was erected. These are the citizens who built the "Motherland Calls" monument. And these are also the citizens who worked at the largest Volgograd Tractor Plant, the aluminum plant, the Barrikady plant, which produced Iskander, Topol, Yars, and so on.
These are the citizens who work at the Krasny Oktyabr plant (the largest special alloys plant). These are the ones who, in the difficult 90s and early 2000s, did not abandon the sacred land, did not sell out for candy wrappers, did not organize a "Bolotnaya", did not rebel. Read the history of the Volga-Don Shipping Canal to understand the Volgograd residents a little.
Tsaritsyn is very important for the people of Volgograd, it was given by Peter I to his wife Catherine. It is a guard town that has been guarding the borders of Russia for over 400 years.
It would be fair to call the city by three names. Sarpinsky Island - Tsaritsynsky District. Center - Stalingradsky District, city of Volgograd. In this way it would be possible to preserve the real history of the city from the moment of its foundation.

[AlxR Nevsky]

If you could only imagine how the residents of Volgograd survived in the 90s and 2000s, there is a film about it. This city suffered the most from the collapse of the USSR. (this is a fact)
I was born in Volgograd in a large family in the Soviet Union. In the 90s, our family lost my father (he worked at Krasny Oktyabr, died of cancer). My mother was left alone with three sons and three daughters, without work, without a livelihood. We lived in the Krasnooktyabrsky district of Volgograd on Marshal Eremenko Street, within walking distance of Mamayev Kurgan and the Motherland. She saved us from starvation (literally, and this is not a myth). The fact is that black currants and rose hips were planted on the slopes of Mamayev Kurgan, and in the most difficult years, my brothers and three sisters and I went to these slopes to eat at least a little. Thank God, those times are over, my brothers and sisters have grown up and everyone has families. The Motherland and Mamayev Kurgan are a sacred place for our family.

[AlxR Nevsky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQRl3g3bj3o

[AlxR Nevsky]

https://vk.com/video-182048280_456239108

[Pavel Kislyakov]

I understand your memories of a hungry childhood.
I really had this periodically. I lived in one of the former Soviet republics, my parents went back to Russia, but I stayed there, friends, school and so on, my grandparents fed me, and then hell went down. My parents had nothing, my grandmother went to the hospital for 3 years and my grandfather, who was sober only when he was little, fed the garden, but winter came and the only food we had was sunflower oil that we made ourselves.
I had to ask to be invited to someone's place to have at least some tea and a sandwich with margarine, and if there were two sandwiches, then it was a holiday. And it wasn't every day that I was able to get into someone's place. I remember how I didn't eat for 3 days and then I got to a birthday party and there I ate a lot of pilaf and my guts twisted so much that I left the birthday party because it was a nightmare.
Well, these 90s and those bastards who want to bring them back. And even though it was in a socialist republic, my parents had almost the same problem. That's why I'm an ardent Putinoid, because under Putin, even eating has become not a quest.

[stankow]

In fact, the one who grew up with smartphones is now lying with a drone remote control in a forest plantation in Kursk region.

[RUSICH]

Quote: leks

You exhale and breathe deeper!

and read how VTsIOM gets data. And how are the questions asked? You won't understand what they're asking...
And if you understand, then you will answer the way VTsIOM wants

[leks]

So don't look at the VTsIOM statistics if you are not satisfied with them. Type in the search engine and watch dozens of videos on Rutube, YouTube of surveys of Volgograd residents where they specifically ask the question for or against!
Below is a screenshot, probably also tsipso, traitors, people who are twisted in the name of I.V. Stalin. Why not a mini referendum. They also mentioned 146%, it turns out it works both ways.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Is this a real survey or a joke?
Because somehow I'm not sure of anything anymore.
(well, besides the fact that humanity is complete crap)

[your1970]

Quote: Rusich

Quote: leks

You exhale and breathe deeper!

and read how VTsIOM gets data. And how are the questions asked? You won't understand what they're asking...
And if you understand, then you will answer the way VTsIOM wants

When you slip a fake under VTsIOM, you read at least...
"For the purpose of hoaxes information field.."

[Fast_mutant]

Quote: leks

that the city's residents themselves are mostly against renaming the city

Sorry, but I don't believe any polls. We need to hold an OPEN, ROMATIC vote. And renaming the city affects not only the residents of this city. And it would also be nice to look at the results of the vote on renaming Volgograd to Tsaritsyn. Here, all sorts of "levadas" will definitely count 120 percent! After all, it's a historical name!

[leks]

Quote: Fast_mutant

Quote: leks

that the city's residents themselves are mostly against renaming the city

Sorry, but I don't believe any polls. We need to hold an OPEN, ROMATIC vote. And renaming the city affects not only the residents of this city. And it would also be nice to look at the results of the vote on renaming Volgograd to Tsaritsyn. Here, all sorts of "levadas" will definitely count 120 percent! After all, it's a historical name!

It's your personal business whether to believe it or not!
What will an open roll-call vote give you? You will also write that you do not believe if the result does not suit you. And write down by name those who were against as traitors to the Motherland, etc., etc.
Honestly, why did you and those who agree with you decide that all residents of Volgograd support the idea of ​​renaming the city to Stalingrad?

[Fast_mutant]

1. I didn't say that all residents are "for". I said that I don't believe the RESULTS of social research. Too often they don't coincide with what is "observed around".
2. Open and roll-call - This is the only honest and RESPONSIBLE voting, which can be checked later. Go to the site and look - has YOUR vote changed. And the type of such voting should not affect people's behavior in any way. Like "friend or foe". We have democracy (at least it is declared). This means that a person has the right to be both "for" and "against". For example, I am for OPEN, NAMED voting in all voting. And the president, and anyone else. This also imposes a certain responsibility. Because no matter who you ask, everyone voted "against" in the elections, and "population support is 85%"! )))) And so - once - and checked. And in response "stop whining about the retirement age, you voted "for"! Isn't that good?

[your1970]

Quote: Fast_mutant

We need to hold an OPEN, ROLL-BY-ROLL vote.

And what to do next - if the majority turns out to be against? Will it turn out that the majority doesn't care about history?

[Fast_mutant]

Quote: your1970

And what to do next - if the majority turns out to be against? Will it turn out that the majority doesn't care about history?

Do nothing, since the MAJORITY is against it. But (IMHO) such renamings concern not just the residents of one city, but the entire country! Now if it were a renaming of some Zadryupinsk to New Vasyuki, then yes. But when it comes to Stalingrad, it seems to me that this concerns all residents of Russia!
If we are talking about a roll call vote, then personally I am "FOR"!

[Crane]

The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause.
...
Don't talk about the whole nation, it smells bad...
Damn, and in caps too...

[alex-defensor]

Quote: begemot20091

Expenses... P-i-d-....s jumping on the stage: sometimes a choir, sometimes a choir, .... let them throw money instead of their parties. The people of RUSSIA will chip in as one for a good cause. And let VTsIOM choke on bile the same way it cried out for the alcoholic Yeltsin

I have only one question for you, but it is in a complex..., and what will the renaming of the city give Russia in real life right now? Maybe it will finally allow Russia to finish the SVO with an unconditional victory? Or will it help resolve the problems with the modification of the SJ-100 and MS-21, the PD series engines? Or maybe AvtoVAZ will finally equip its products with a full-fledged reliable automatic transmission of Russian manufacture? Or will Russia finally master the modern 7nm process technology and overcome the lag in the production of the element base?
Do you really think that renaming the city is the most important thing right now? And aren't there other economic tasks where the limited resources can be spent more profitably?

[begemot20091]

It's not about resources. The governor's salary alone is enough to rename. Stalingrad-Volgograd - it will take about 20 years to make changes to maps and other places. Especially since such changes are now being made digitally. I saw my father spitting at this renaming in 1961. This is the memory of our ancestors who laid down their lives for this city. And don't remember Tsaritsyn (they'll bring it up now). Confuse soft with round. And about 7 nm - don't make me laugh. It's like about drones - give them funding and the guys will knock together these lithographic machines "on their knees". For example, the "Lobaevskaya" rifle, drones (not the son of a space engineer). AvtoVAZ - we don't know how to make cars, buy the plant together with the engineers-developers. And about aviation engines and the like: managers from production - in the ass. Close these departments for 5-10 years - they have bred enough nonsense for 50 years in free universities, and even more - in fee-paying universities. Well, and about the victory - mobilization of 500-600 thousand people should be declared. I already wrote: "Migrants - drive them all through the LBS". 12 million healthy heads. The entire front will be closed in 2 rows. They are "allies" in BRICS, SCO or whatever...

[alex-defensor]

Quote: begemot20091

It's like with drones - give us funding and the guys will knock together these lithographic machines "on their knees"

Well you give Drones are still being made from Chinese components. Yes, localization of production is underway, which is good news... but the process is not easy even for enthusiasts. But this is not the level of complexity required to produce a modern X-ray lithograph.
I partially agree with the rest. About the migrants on LBS - a question. How will they fight? What will those who pass the SVO be like? Will we not get "new citizens" of Russia who still hate us, but who already know how to fight...
If you read your book, everything is simple. But I don't think that the reins of Russia should be handed over to you.

[begemot20091]

We have been making engines and propellers ourselves for a long time - this is the main thing. Some are purchased from China. Concern "Radioelectronic Technologies" (KRET) launched serial production of electric motors that are used in unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). I had women winding and connecting up to 200 per shift... And these are not miniature ones that are wound automatically (coils). And now they produce brushless ones - much simpler. Yes, lithography suffers, but in a year we accelerated from 350 to 135 nm. Well, and if we stop supplying neon to Taiwan and f...m from Europe - they will die. Mariupol does not give, I do not know about Krivoy Rog. And I do not need to pass on anything - they do not even take a volunteer - old, they say. (Demobilization in 1990)

[alex-defensor]

Quote: begemot20091

Yes, lithography suffers, but in a year we accelerated from 350 to 135 nm.

God willing, victory should be ours. But there are some questions for the elites...
For too long they have been reluctant to “fit into” the Western model of the universe.
Regarding corruption - the same. But here, too, it seems, they have started to move something. That's what life-giving sanctions do. As always - misfortune helped...

But I still don't think the issue of renaming the city is important enough, and even MORE so - urgent. This is my opinion and I have the right to it. In any case, the decision can ONLY be made during a plebiscite among the city's residents, or even the entire region, because the renaming should affect it too. Or maybe even the whole of Russia... But such a plebiscite would be too expensive to conduct. Yes, perhaps we should stop at the city and the region...

[your1970]

Quote: begemot20091

Lobaevskaya" rifle

Which in BEFORE the SVD times cost about 3 million, and the Tiger (formerly SVD) cost 28, that is, 000 times cheaper?
And where did the licenses, money and equipment fall from? A few billion bucks out of the sky?

Quote: begemot20091

Buy a plant together with the engineers and developers.

- this is the USSR which like the Cold War and other blah blah blah could buy Derventa and AVTOVAZ. And the RF does not sell anything - Opel at a price above the market - did not sell...

[begemot20091]

I didn't write to you about the price, but about what can be done on your knee. And the price... 100 pieces - one price, 100.000 - another. How much does a device cost for civilians and the same for the defense industry - about a 5-fold difference. And where does it come from - the requirements of the conditions of use (-50 = +50, storage conditions, and so on .. look at the testing program for defense products: even serial ones). During a war, all this must be removed to reduce the cost, as was the case in WWII. A drone is a disposable thing - their price can be reduced to kopecks. I looked - a set of motors - a little more than 1000 rubles - this is already on sale. So at the factory no more than 300 rubles - and so on everything else

[Sergei Fonov]

"Residents against"
In my opinion, a negative attitude towards Stalin simultaneously means a negative attitude towards Victory. Victory is Stalin, not Zhukov and other commanders, no matter how much they did. Victory is industry, it is Stalin, Beria and many others. Without these names, it is some Kolya from Urengoy, but that is my opinion.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

But what if this is just your invention or worse, a calculated demagogy? For me, Dzhugashvili (Stalin) is associated with the betrayal of Serbia and the defeats of 1941-42. Tsarist Russia did not let the Germans go further than Galicia and the Baltics.

[begemot20091]

Yes does not matter This VTsIOM - this city defended its name with blood. "France fell in 38 days - in Stalingrad in 38 days the Germans managed to move from one side of the street to the other"

[Pavel Kislyakov]

We have the same issue in the SVO, how many years did it take to take some cities? And some still haven't been taken, and 3 years have passed and they tried to take them.

[begemot20091]

Well, let's go ahead. What's the question?

[Pavel Kislyakov]

so they are moving forward, but somehow slowly.
If the joke is like it's easy for me from the couch, then I was there in 2022 when it was actually harder for us than now. And I was in a PMC that took cities, unlike the Ministry of Defense

[begemot20091]

Well, that is, "Wagner" fought, and the rest of the tails skidded on the turns?

[Pavel Kislyakov]

I don’t want to argue because the majority simply won’t want to believe it, but even the Airborne Forces told us that if you leave, we’ll be in trouble.

[begemot20091]

Stop talking nonsense. VDV told you. The same guys. I'm not belittling anyone's achievements. And "Pyatnashka"? In your opinion, only "Wagner" won.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

no, I'm not saying that only Wagner fought, there were simply many times fewer people there. but Wagner fought better, even our liberals were shouting about it, Latinina discussed this point that Wagner creates the most problems.
and one of the reasons is that the Wagner infantry was better equipped. I still remember how they reprogrammed captured radios for the Ministry of Defense artillery because they had nothing but baofengs for 2.5 thousand rubles and how the Poles would interrupt their conversations and mock ours. Well, and the armor was better at first, now we have armor that is fire and night vision goggles with heat guns are not uncommon, but in those years the equipment was far from fire and the training was still worse.
Well, what were we initially arguing about, about the cities, the first large and fortified cities were taken by Wagner, while the Ministry of Defense tried, but they destroyed a lot of equipment and people without results, which kind of speaks about the command.

[begemot20091]

stupid Latinina - you can only talk about f-i-d-...s with her. She sits in Tallinn and giggles. Well, and about "Wagner" - they are not here now, so what, the guys have kicked the bucket? History will judge. But for now.. GOOD LUCK, GUYS. WE ARE WAITING FOR YOU - MAY THE FAIRWINDS NOT BEAT YOU, BUT CARESS YOUR BACKS!!!!!!

[Pavel Kislyakov]

I agree with you, but it wasn't Latina who spoke there, it was just her broadcast. The apostle said so, and he was aware of everything at the time because he was still in office.

[begemot20091]

and what attention does this f...er deserve? They didn't drag him from room to room around the hotel enough, they didn't get him all the way through. Now a specialist is easier to get stunned.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

At that time, as an adviser to the president, he had access to information and knew about the problems firsthand

[begemot20091]

he is a f-i-d-o-r and that is incorrigible. and no one shares info with f-i-d-o...rs. although they are all like that - macro-shi friends

[Pavel Kislyakov]

watch the interview with panina sapchag, which is ksyushad.
he says so openly that he slept with Zelei, and his wife's friend straponed Zelei. so everyone there is like that, and their own will always share not only information with their own. so the apostle had access to all the information.
and to be honest, I don't give a damn if you consider that he is a high-ranking official and knew about the problems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, he was actually removed because he told the truth about what was unprofitable for Zele, that is, he knew the truth, and he knew not only about the air defense but also about what the biggest problems were for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the biggest problem at that time was precisely the Wagner, not the Air Force, which had not really flown for 2 years until, glory to the eggs, after a bunch of years of talk, we finally got the UMPK, not the ground forces, which either had peace treaties or "redeployment to advantageous positions." and I remember very well the video of how much equipment ours abandoned during the "regrouping", whole shells, tanks, a bunch of armored vehicles, in general, no matter what they shout there that Skakuasov is sponsored by NATO, this is chatter if the fate is that the champion in the supply of equipment was our Ministry of Defense, which abandoned more equipment there than NATO supplied to them.
and Wagner did not "regroup", did not sign treaties, fought competently and it was they who took the most fortified cities, both Bakhmut and Soledar, and the Ministry of Defense only took Ugledar in 2024.
and besides, I was a signalman there, and had access to some information and I can openly tell you that the Ministry of Defense in 2022 during the mobilization tried to organize a coup d'etat in the Kremlin, it failed (that's why Shoigu "disappeared" at that time for 2 weeks, there was still a lot of interesting things there, but that's not this time), that's why there were orders not to destroy the remaining equipment (darkness, they even abandoned equipment like the Pantsir, which simply had a flat tire). that's why you can laugh a lot that Lyusya and Zelya are leaky, our officials turned out to be much more leaky than real non-straight people. watch the South Park episode "The Word Starting with the Letter P" then you'll understand what I mean.

[begemot20091]

Panin - is this Macron's wife?

[Pavel Kislyakov]

This is our poor guy who ran off to Spain, supposedly an actor. He also starred in Blind Man's Bluff.

[leks]

Quote: Pavel Kislyakov

watch the interview with panina sapchag, which is ksyushad.
he says so openly that he slept with Zelei, and his wife's friend straponed Zelei. so everyone there is like that, and their own will always share not only information with their own. so the apostle had access to all the information.
and to be honest, I don't give a damn if you consider that he is a high-ranking official and knew about the problems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, he was actually removed because he told the truth about what was unprofitable for Zele, that is, he knew the truth, and he knew not only about the air defense but also about what the biggest problems were for the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and the biggest problem at that time was precisely the Wagner, not the Air Force, which had not really flown for 2 years until, glory to the eggs, after a bunch of years of talk, we finally got the UMPK, not the ground forces, which either had peace treaties or "redeployment to advantageous positions." and I remember very well the video of how much equipment ours abandoned during the "regrouping", whole shells, tanks, a bunch of armored vehicles, in general, no matter what they shout there that Skakuasov is sponsored by NATO, this is chatter if the fate is that the champion in the supply of equipment was our Ministry of Defense, which abandoned more equipment there than NATO supplied to them.
and Wagner did not "regroup", did not sign treaties, fought competently and it was they who took the most fortified cities, both Bakhmut and Soledar, and the Ministry of Defense only took Ugledar in 2024.
and besides, I was a signalman there, and had access to some information and I can openly tell you that the Ministry of Defense in 2022 during the mobilization tried to organize a coup d'etat in the Kremlin, it failed (that's why Shoigu "disappeared" at that time for 2 weeks, there was still a lot of interesting things there, but that's not this time), that's why there were orders not to destroy the remaining equipment (darkness, they even abandoned equipment like the Pantsir, which simply had a flat tire). that's why you can laugh a lot that Lyusya and Zelya are leaky, our officials turned out to be much more leaky than real non-straight people. watch the South Park episode "The Word Starting with the Letter P" then you'll understand what I mean.

You are trying in vain, because the majority of commentators on VO are old senile fools and turbopatriots, and this contingent is completely finished, even if you piss in their eyes, they will say God's dew. I am surprised that you were not included in the tsipso and the doomsayers. It is generally accepted here if you do not fit into their rainbow looking-glass world

[Pavel Kislyakov]

yes, I'm already used to it, I get banned here all the time, I don't know what account it is (Pavel is one of my friends, I just registered from his email so I wouldn't have to create a new email). and not only on this forum. so I know what's going on with the local commentators.
but sometimes I come across knowledgeable people who can also convince me of something, just now I was told about the TPK in the Stinger, and I really didn’t know that, I thought it had a reusable PU. but convincing stubborn people is a thankless task, but there is one BUT, these articles are read a little later by other people and in fact my comments are intended for them.

[leks]

Quote: Pavel Kislyakov

yes, I'm already used to it, I get banned here all the time, I don't know what account it is (Pavel is one of my friends, I just registered from his email so I wouldn't have to create a new email). and not only on this forum. so I know what's going on with the local commentators.
but sometimes I come across knowledgeable people who can also convince me of something, just now I was told about the TPK in the Stinger, and I really didn’t know that, I thought it had a reusable PU. but convincing stubborn people is a thankless task, but there is one BUT, these articles are read a little later by other people and in fact my comments are intended for them.

Got it! Good luck to you and thank you as a member of the SVO. I respected Wagner and will respect him! It's a pity that such a company was closed by parquet degenerates. Prigozhin and Utkin were fatally mistaken in believing the promises. In general, it was necessary to either follow through or not kick up a fuss.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

The office was not closed, it simply moved to Africa.
and I still have the opinion that the First and the Ninth are alive. Because they never traveled on the same transport and here they boarded the same plane, although there were 2 planes flying (the second one later landed at a different airfield). In addition, they are closely tied to the FSB, because the military in the Far East who started the coup d'etat neutralized Wagner. And if you think about it, who allowed illegal armed people (PMCs are not in the laws, so they had no right to be there with weapons without someone's permission) to block legal armed forces. Well, and moreover, someone at the top knew that these units would rebel and sent there not people controlled by the Ministry of Defense, but those who didn't give a damn about the Ministry of Defense. There was such a subtle political game there that it would take a long time to explain and it's hard to believe. So it was even very logical for the First and the Ninth to go into the shadows.

[leks]

Well, now the office is completely under the MORF and it is unlikely that it has remained as effective.
As for whether they are alive or not, we are unlikely to know about it until they decide to show up.
I have nothing to say about the internal political squabbles, because I am infinitely far from this topic. I will only say that from a historical point of view, all upheavals in the Russian state began from the head.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

under the MORF it is purely nominal, on the ground everything is the same, the only sad thing is that Ratibor went to Akhmat (damn, I don't like this office). And the squabble has always been over the head and has been since ancient times. Read Dugin's book Conspiracy Theory, it explains from what time and how the undercover struggle went on and what is the entity called deep state, and why the Naglosaxons have been shitting on Russia for so many centuries because it is their main target, the rest of their nastiness to other countries is only to strengthen themselves, they shit on Russia to destroy it. And by the way, this is important information, that is why the first person the Naglosaxons wanted to remove with the hands of the Skakuas through the GUR was Dugin (then his daughter got into his car and it was she who died).

[begemot20091]

rainbow - this is your world. and we looked at it through other magnifiers

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Moreover, one of the turbopatriots (@paul3390) did his best to prevent the equipping of shotguns for protection against drones. That is, in reality they are enemies, and in the virtual world they are fans of Dzhugashvili.

[Machito]

Quote: leks

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

However, as shown by the Bloknot poll, in which more than 6 thousand people took part, the majority, namely 90% of participants, are against.
In February 2023, VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents of the region about changing the name of the city. 67% of Volgograd residents did not agree with the renaming, 26% of residents were in favor of changing the name.

What unanimous decision are you writing about?!

We all remember the 146% of voters in the presidential elections.
It doesn't matter how they vote.
What matters is what they think.
What about the mausoleum boarded up with plywood at the Victory Parade?
It turns out somehow unhistorical.
Or is it another?

[leks]

Quote: Bearded

Quote: leks

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

However, as shown by the Bloknot poll, in which more than 6 thousand people took part, the majority, namely 90% of participants, are against.
In February 2023, VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents of the region about changing the name of the city. 67% of Volgograd residents did not agree with the renaming, 26% of residents were in favor of changing the name.

What unanimous decision are you writing about?!

We all remember the 146% of voters in the presidential elections.
It doesn't matter how they vote.
What matters is what they think.
What about the mausoleum boarded up with plywood at the Victory Parade?
It turns out somehow unhistorical.
Or is it another?

There is no need to compare presidential elections, where the system itself is set up so that the same person is re-elected, and the renaming of a city! Whatever, here the system is absolutely indifferent to what the city will be called.
Now, I wrote to my relatives and friends from Volgograd on this issue via WhatsApp. They replied that when a cat has nothing better to do, he licks his balls, and the city already has more than enough problems, and that being Volgograd or Stalingrad will not change anything at all.
As for Lenin, he should have been buried long ago. And the mausoleum should simply be made a historical monument with two photographs of Lenin and Stalin inside.

[Doccor18]

Quote: leks

Whatever, but here the system is absolutely indifferent to what the city will be called.

You think so ...
But the system, apparently, thinks differently, because if it were your way, this question would never have been raised... several times.

Quote: leks

As for Lenin, he should have been buried long ago. And the mausoleum should simply be made into a historical monument with two photographs of Lenin and Stalin inside.

Why are you in such a hurry? You'll have time. Another 15-20 years, and when there are no more people left who remember the USSR not from stories, we can bury everything that was once called the most progressive project in the history of mankind...

[leks]

Quote: Doccor18

Quote: leks

Whatever, but here the system is absolutely indifferent to what the city will be called.

You think so ...
But the system, apparently, thinks differently, because if it were your way, this question would never have been raised... several times.

Quote: leks

As for Lenin, he should have been buried long ago. And the mausoleum should simply be made into a historical monument with two photographs of Lenin and Stalin inside.

Why are you in such a hurry? You'll have time. Another 15-20 years, and when there are no more people left who remember the USSR not from stories, we can bury everything that was once called the most progressive project in the history of mankind...

This is precisely the question that is raised every year by people like you, who still can’t calm down and every time during any vote, whether in VTsIOM or in other public surveys, it shows that the locals don’t need this at all.
Well, if you are a necrophile and you are excited by looking at the corpse of a long-dead person who, during his life, did such things that still haunt him and who was ready to sacrifice the population of an entire country on the altar of world revolution, then you are clearly out of your mind.
About the last point, about the progressive project, you are not making people laugh. Because this project was never like that, but was simply an experiment that failed without even living 100 years and no one stood up to defend this project-experiment.

[Doccor18]

Quote: leks

who during his life did such things that still haunt him and who was ready to sacrifice the population of an entire country on the altar of world revolution, then you are clearly out of your mind.

Where did you read this?

Quote: leks

About the progressive project, you're not making people laugh.

What a laugh. Everything is serious, but it was very difficult to organize such a complex project for the first time in world history, and surrounded by enemies...

[Sergei Fonov]

"..., about the progressive project, you are not making people laugh."
The USSR was a progressive project, otherwise Stalin would not have won the war. But many of us know the history of the war only from the film "Liberation", with the charismatic and intelligent Ulyanov in the role of Zhukov, and the weak-willed Stalin who does not quite understand what is happening. Renaming Volgograd will break many patterns, and not everyone is happy with this. Renaming the city to Stalingrad is a tribute to the memory of Stalin, who stood at the head of the state that won the war, and recognition of his merits. We have a strange attitude to our history, we simultaneously curse and are proud of our past, there is no consensus, but we often see the Red Banner on the LBS, a copy of the banner with which we reached Berlin.

[begemot20091]

already forgotten. If a student has to do it again: they can't solve a 2nd order equation, they don't remember the Pythagorean theorem. I'm not talking about literacy (not typos, of which there are a lot on the forum) - in the word x... they manage to make three mistakes. I have (as a sample) a midterm test of one of the gold medalists - 19 lines, 29 mistakes.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Oh-oh-oh, the youth is not the same again! Those youth, those, are even better than the previous ones.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

even better than the previous one

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

What's funny? Well, by God, they are literate and understand the current situation.

[Doccor18]

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

What's so funny?

How can it not be funny? The same thing, year after year, generation after generation, century after century...

Quote: Sergey Alexandrovich

Well, by God, they are literate and understand the current situation.

Yes, I completely agree with you!

[begemot20091]

read more carefully. I wrote about illiteracy. probably, it is clearly visible from the students. and leave your AI for better times. come at least once to the colloquium in the first year, and better to the exam, when it comes to the requirements - to replace the teacher - the exam is poorly administered.

[Doccor18]

Quote: begemot20091

already forgotten

No, they still remember. But for how long...

Quote: begemot20091

if the student has to re-: they can't decide

Students are different, I communicate with them regularly during practice. I want to kiss some on the top of their heads, because they are so smart, and beat others for indifference and hopeless laziness.

[begemot20091]

I especially recommend doctors

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: Bearded

What about the mausoleum boarded up with plywood at the Victory Parade?
It turns out somehow unhistorical.
Or is it another?

This is reality. Maybe Putin will cancel his order to board up the Mausoleum with plywood at least this year?
It's his decision - he has to cancel it.

[bayard]

Quote: Vladimir-TTT

Maybe Putin will cancel his order to board up the Mausoleum with plywood at least this year?

Apparently, it was necessary to first fail/lose the "non-war"\SVO (about the readiness for unconditional negotiations), in order to remember who WON wars. Who built, not destroyed. Educated, not corrupted. Taught, not bred "ideal consumers". Apparently icons don't help anymore... They've even started to paint Stalin on icons... They'll probably come up with a compromise like that - Stalingrad with an icon of Stalin on the coat of arms...
In Russia's reliably known history there was only one period of Success, Development, Progress and Power - the USSR. Which was built and defended in the great war by the Great Stalin.
And our quad bikes are only capable of boarding up the Mausoleum.
Maybe at least this time they will think not about their own conscience, but about their guests - Xi Jin Ping and Kim Jong-un will definitely not understand or approve of this plywood installation. Maybe at least this time, if not Conscience, then at least Common Sense will wake up.

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: bayard

Maybe at least this time they will think not about their own conscience, but about their guests - Xi Jin Ping and Kim Jong-un will definitely not understand or approve of this plywood installation. Maybe at least this time, if not Conscience, then at least Common Sense will wake up.

Hardly...
He's already old, and there's no point in expecting common sense.

[bayard]

Well, maybe one of the young advisers/assistants can give me some advice. Maybe Patrushev...
He actually came up with the idea of ​​naming the two future icebreakers “Stalingrad” and “Leningrad”.
And the Airport.
Even though it is old.
I got North Korea as an ally - a nuclear missile power and an army of 1,2 million. Together with our current army, it comes out to almost 4 million.
When you declare without a second thought about "readiness to negotiate with the fascists without conditions" ... insulting guests with such armies and with such an economy as China's ... is imprudent. And unwise.
So if they had enough brains for icebreakers and an airport, then maybe they will also have enough brains not to board up the Mausoleum with plywood. And then, you see, the hero city will get its glorious name back.
Negotiating with the fascists without any conditions, of course, will not unite the people ... But the return of the glorious name of Stalingrad, maybe something will come of it ... Now they are again looking for a national idea. They do not want communism / socialism, but they are already painting icons of Stalin ... Here they are canonizing ... fairy tales about a plane with an icon around Moscow (there is no documentary evidence of this, but they like to repeat the legend), even about "a certain Miracle near Stalingrad "Mother of God", who "swung her sword" and raised to attack ...", about how "he went to Matronushka" ...
And He WORKED then. Not as a "galley slave", but as the Leader of a country at war. And after 3 years of that war with all of Europe, we were already in Poland. And the current commanders are now only finishing liberating the Kursk region from the fascists. They haven't liberated Donetsk...
Icons won't help here.
How Nikolai was not helped against the Japanese.
How could they not protect him from Treason? And did not give him victory.
Deception. Trap.
And who among us is happy to be deceived?
China retained its Communist Party and is now the First Economy in the World.
The DPRK did not bend "to the changing world" - now it is a nuclear missile power.
And those who caved in, betrayed and were deceived have been fighting for the Forester’s hut for the fourth year.

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: bayard

So if they had enough intelligence for icebreakers and an airport, then maybe they will also have enough intelligence not to board up the Mausoleum with plywood.

Well, not the icebreaker, but the name - don't distort it. Putin can't make an icebreaker, or even an airplane. These are the remains of the USSR that he hates so much.
But he won't be able to refuse plywood. It's not the "size" of a person.

[bayard]

Well, I’m telling you - maybe Patrushev will give you some advice.
Well, if not, then it's his shame.

[Sergei Fonov]

As long as we buy nails abroad made from our metal and buy plywood made from our forests, we will hammer in. Then, when we start developing our industry following the example of China, then we will stop being ashamed of our history.

[shin]

Do you trust VTsIOM? Pay its management and they will paint you as the leader of public opinion in Russia.

[leks]

Quote: golen

Do you trust VTsIOM? Pay its management and they will paint you as the leader of public opinion in Russia.

Why is VTsIOM doing this, what will it give and who benefits from it? These are not elections to the Duma or the President, here the administrative apparatus is involved.
I trust ordinary people living in this city.

[shin]

Believe what? How many people did you survey there - 5,10?

[leks]

For you, what does it matter how many I polled, if I say 100, tell me I'm lying, if I say ten, tell me that it's dust and doesn't show the whole picture. You just need to look at how people are polled, there are statistics from dependent and independent sources that reflect the opinion of Volgograd residents. But for you, this is also not an authoritative poll. So what's the point of casting pearls in front of ...., Live in your own imaginary world, where 90% of residents are FOR!

[shin]

Lots of words and nothing of substance. Fabulist.

[leks]

Quote: golen

Lots of words and nothing of substance. Fabulist.

We are very pleased that you gave us your reference! Bye

[Owl23]

Quote: leks

are you writing?!

Guys, I'm off topic... purely about the Russian language:

- you write - this is a wish, like... "you write to me, I'm waiting impatiently"
- you write - this is a statement. You wrote this. B

Don't confuse the letters, it hurts your eyes... Russian, B

[ZloyCat]

"VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents"
VTsIOM produces the results that are ordered swam, we know

[Lemon]

There is no unanimity there regarding the renaming. It is they, the residents, who should decide.

[esso]

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

Don't write crap, if History then Tsaritsyn, not Stalingrad. Residents are more than 60 percent against. You are wrong. Don't engage in populism. The reason is financial costs, and Volgograd has many other problems that need to be solved...

[invisible_man]

You won't convince the die-hard Stalinists and show-offs.

[begemot20091]

What are you talking about? Ask the guys from LBS. They will tell you - hard-assed.

[invisible_man]

Just imagine, there are different opinions on LBS too. I know those who are ready to shoot communists and other "patriots depending on the circumstances" tomorrow. I am not calling for this in any way, but the mood is there.

[bayard]

Quote from invisible_man

I am in no way calling for this, but the mood is there.

You're calling, Kostya. You're calling. But you're just lying. All those of you who want to shoot at the communists have stormed Verkhniy Lars.

Quote from invisible_man

There are different opinions on LBS too. I know those who are ready to shoot communists and other "patriots depending on the circumstances" to their heart's content even tomorrow.

And from which side of the front did you conduct the survey, sir?
In our DPR after the Debaltseve operation a bust of Stalin was installed in the city. And on the medals for those who distinguished themselves in that operation there is a profile of Stalin.
Did you conduct a survey among the Azov people, Kostya?

Quote from invisible_man

and other "patriots according to circumstances"

Walk with a wide stance, Konstantin, don't rip your trousers.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

In our DPR after the Debaltseve operation a bust of Stalin was installed in the city. And on the medals for those who distinguished themselves in that operation there is a profile of Stalin.
Did you conduct a survey among the Azov people, Kostya?
Quote from invisible_man
and other "patriots according to circumstances"

Walk with a wide stance, Konstantin, don't rip your trousers.

Well then, dig up Khrushchev's corpse and hammer an aspen stake into it. And also to all those who spoke at the 20th Party Congress - traitors and renegades.
Otherwise, damn it dearThe party and Stalin's comrades smeared with manure - and we are to blame. Convene a congress of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation and cancel the decision of the 20th congress, after all....

[bayard]

What does the Communist Party of the Russian Federation have to do with Stalin? And with the 20th Congress of another party?
At that congress, the Trotskyists took revenge on Stalin's comrades. Already after the palace coup. But the opportunists of the CPRF have nothing to do with them - they are just a remake from the early 90s. Imitators.
I have nothing to do with either of them, I am talking about the role of the Individual in History. In our history. And about the glory and feat of the Soviet People in the Battle of Stalingrad, when the tide of the War, the tide of History, was turned. Stalingrad is a symbol of Fortitude, the greatness of the Spirit and the unbending Will of our ancestors.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

And about the glory and feat of the Soviet People in the Battle of Stalingrad, when the tide of the War, the tide of History was turned. Stalingrad is a symbol of Fortitude, the greatness of the Spirit and the unbending Will of our ancestors.

By exalting one event, you belittle others. Every fourth person killed in Belarus and those killed in Leningrad - isn't that a symbol of fortitude, will and spirit?
And the tide of the war was turned in the Battle of Kursk.
You can't extol one thing in the history of war just because it bears Stalin's name.

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

And the tide of the war was turned in the Battle of Kursk.

This was the Turning Point, they taught this in school. When even the fascists realized that the war was lost.
And before the victory at Stalingrad, the Germans were only advancing - competently and very quickly. But in Stalingrad they broke. And rolled back. Before that, no one in the world believed in our victory, not even the allies. And after that, Tehran-43 took place, where the fate of the future world was decided.

Quote: your1970

only because it bears Stalin's name

Many cities bore Stalin's name at that time, Donetsk too (Stalino), and the region was named Stalinskaya. But it was Stalingrad that became the symbol of the turning point in that war.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

They taught us the same thing at school.

At school they also taught about the cult of personality and "voluntarism" - so what?
School is not an indicator at all.

Quote: bayard

. And in Stalingrad it broke. And rolled back. Before that, no one in the world believed in our victory, not even the allies. And after that, Tehran-43 took place, where the fate of the future world was decided.

In Stalingrad he suffered losses, nothing more.
But after the Kursk Bulge, having suffered resource losses, the Wehrmacht broke down and began to malfunction.
And Tehran 1943 happened almost a year after Stalingrad.

Quote: bayard

When even the fascists realized that the war was lost.

Someone (alas, I don’t remember exactly who) from Hitler’s bigwigs wrote in a diary that the war was lost back in September 1941
On November 29, 1941, Reich Minister of Armaments and Munitions Fritz Todt appealed to Hitler: “My Führer, the war must be stopped immediately, since we have already lost it militarily and economically.”

So the Nazis' defeat became clear as soon as the USSR stood firm in 1941.

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

At school they also taught about the cult of personality and "voluntarism" - so what?

In this case I am speaking banally about the chronology and statistics of WWII/WWII. Before Stalingrad the Germans were advancing, after Stalingrad they only rolled back. Near Kursk there was an attempt at revenge with a local offensive and with local goals.

Quote: your1970

In Stalingrad he suffered losses, nothing more.

In Stalingrad, the Wehrmacht suffered not just "losses", it was a defeat and the end of the myth of invincibility. For the Battle of Moscow only made us doubt the invincibility of the Wehrmacht, during the spring-summer offensive it was completely rehabilitated after the failure near Moscow, but in Stalingrad there was a defeat. And flight with rearguard battles. To Kuban, Dnieper and further to the west.

Quote: your1970

And Tehran 1943 happened almost a year after Stalingrad.

That's how they prepared for the meeting. And by the time of it, the consequences of the defeat at Stalingrad became obvious - Soviet troops were approaching the Dnieper. Look at the map to estimate HOW MUCH that is in kilometers. Either in linear or square kilometers.
Well, the meeting itself had to be prepared.
Do not underestimate the significance of that battle, that turning point thousands of kilometers away - a retreat and then an offensive.

Quote: your1970

The Nazis' defeat became clear as soon as the USSR held out in 1941

At that time, these were only disturbing guesses and revelations among the most insightful.

And how do you compare this to the meat grinder for the Forester's hut in the current SVO? How do the liberals command and govern? How much did they fight in THREE and a quarter years? In the same period, the Soviet (then already Soviet) Army had already liberated all of Poland.
And so far nothing is particularly clear for us - Novorossiysk is being bombed, Red Square is being built, fighting for Krasnoarmeysk... We are still far from turning points. Although we have certainly built up our strength. Well, we still have to be able to do it. And there are not enough skilled people at the top.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

There was an attempt at revenge near Kursk local offensive and with local goals

Do you want to belittle all other battles of WWII for the sake of Stalingrad?
"Local" near Kursk - with groups comparable in numbers to those at Stalingrad?

Quote: bayard

. And there are few skilled people at the top.

the conditions are a little bit different... Don't you think?
Zhukov would have been stunned if he had been given 200 for 000 km of the front, they would have banned tribunals and would have told him that aviation losses were undesirable due to their small numbers.
He knew for sure that an offensive was supposed to be carried out in divisions, but the idea of ​​five men on motorcycles would have been impossible to imagine in principle.
Well, and patriotism from the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926 (there for all military crimes during wartime up to execution) supported a little...
Z. Y.

Quote: bayard

And how do you compare this to the meat grinder for the Forester's hut in the current SVO?

- and "the battles for the vegetable gardens of the village of Konstantinovo" - 4 waves of attacks, they never reached the houses. Or does it "not count" then?

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

Do you want to belittle all other battles of WWII for the sake of Stalingrad?

Not at all. Each of them is unique in its own way. The same Belorussian or Berlin operation - here the result, the scope, and the depth of the breakthrough are completely different. But the turning point occurred in Stalingrad, and at the Kursk Bulge it became the final fact. There were exactly two such turning points. Well, and the Battle of Moscow, and the winter offensive - when the Germans were defeated for the first time and driven back 200 km.

Quote: your1970

other battles of WWII?
"Local" ones near Kursk - with groups comparable in numbers to those at Stalingrad?

And what about the Belarusian operation? When the front over a huge area simply collapsed and disappeared?
A turning point is when the vector of the war itself changes. When this vector has turned 180 degrees. Stalingrad was exactly such a turning point, and at Kursk and Orel the German offensive spirit was broken. They could no longer attack and the initiative passed completely to our troops. Stalingrad was the maximum point that the enemy managed to reach. And the fact that it is associated with the name of Stalin turned out almost by chance. It is simply a large city where it could be turned into an impregnable fortified area. There is absolutely nothing around there, and especially beyond the Volga - the country is open to the Urals.

Quote: your1970

Zhukov would have been stunned if he had been given 200 for 000 km of the front, they would have banned tribunals and would have told him that aviation losses were undesirable due to their small numbers.

There were fewer - 160 thousand from six directions. And the front was 2000 km.+, although the first phase was a maneuver war. Reinforcements later began to arrive from hastily created battalions of volunteers. At the front in the fall of 2022, sometimes less than 100 thousand troops remained.
And victory in war is forged in peacetime - in the pre-war period. Did anyone prepare? The entire top brass of the Ministry of Defense should have been shot for such readiness and equipment of the troops, for the lack of a trained reserve, for the lack of mobilization plans and mobilization stocks. For the stolen budget and fictitious statistics. Yes, for everything. Only the courage, heroism and resourcefulness of Russian soldiers and lower/middle-ranking officers saved the situation. And the People themselves, who began to supply and equip their Army themselves, and the gang of embezzlers continued to steal even then. So I ask - how does power compare then and now? From a professional and ethical-moral point of view?

Quote: your1970

He knew for sure that an offensive was supposed to be carried out in divisions, but the idea of ​​five men on motorcycles would have been impossible to imagine in principle.

Well, sometimes there are five of us, and sometimes there are three of us. Our guys are biker-assault soldiers under my window, they drive past the front and from the front on rotation. Sometimes there are quad bikes, sometimes homemade buggies from old cars, or just old cars with the doors removed. We have been at war for 11 years now. That's not 3+ years.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

The entire top brass of the Ministry of Defense should have been shot for such readiness and equipment of the troops, for the lack of a trained reserve, for the lack of mobilization plans and mobilization reserves.

Once again I will say - did you quote the act of acceptance and transfer of the People's Commissariat of Defense?
The structure is different , but the effect is the same - "there has been no verification of mobilized persons since 1927", "Plans are exclusively on paper", "There are no mobilization reserves"
They impaled Comrade Voroshilov?! Aha.....

Quote: bayard

the gang of embezzlers continued to steal even then

Of the 56 generals executed during WWII, about 10 were executed for theft.
Did the shooting stop them? Hmm....

Quote: bayard

There were fewer - 160 thousand from six directions. And the front was 2000 km.+, although the first phase was a maneuver war. Reinforcements later began to arrive from hastily created battalions of volunteers. At the front in the fall of 2022, sometimes less than 100 thousand troops remained.

You confirm my

Quote: your1970

Zhukov would be stunned

[bayard]

Quote: your1970

"there has been no verification of mobilized persons since 1927", "Plans are exclusively on paper", "There are no mobilization reserves"

All this was revealed and corrected in the pre-war period. We compare the Great Patriotic War with WWI and the Central Military District. Since June 1941, mobilization was carried out in an organized manner, and the system of training new recruits was constantly improved.

Quote: your1970

They impaled Comrade Voroshilov?! Aha.....

They put him in charge of the military industry, including organizing its evacuation. And Kliment coped with it, the whole world was amazed by the transfer of thousands of enterprises beyond the Volga and the Urals and the launch of production in new places. This is precisely his merit. And the fact that there is chaos in the rapidly rearming, reorganizing and growing Army is not even surprising. It is surprising that they managed to more or less prepare for a war of such a scale and defeated all of Europe, including economically.

Quote: your1970

Of the 56 generals executed during WWII, about 10 were executed for theft.

How many generals were there in total? Everything is known in comparison.

Quote: your1970

You confirm my
Quote: your1970
Zhukov would be stunned

Here everyone was freaking out, and only in the Country of Pink Ponies everything went "according to plan". It is impossible to trust such planners with a collective farm.

[your1970]

Quote: bayard

All this was identified and corrected in the pre-war period.

- was it revealed? after the Finns were pelted with hats?
Fixed?in a year?
All this - if they didn’t even know the exact number of the Red Army????!!!!!
"3. .....
The current composition of the Red Army exceeded the number approved by the Government after the war with the White Finns by 686 people, subject to dismissal to the reserve from July 000.
Most military units exist on temporary staffing levels, not approved by the People's Commissar. The staff and timesheet economy has been launched. About 1400 staffing and table schedules, according to which the troops live and are supplied, have not been approved by anyone and are issued for management as temporary.
The General Staff does not have precise data on the state of the state border cover.
There was almost no control over operational training in the districts. The People's Commissariat of Defense is lagging behind in developing issues of operational use of troops in modern warfare. There are no firmly established views on the use of tanks, aviation and airborne troops.
d) the construction of communications along the NKS line is lagging far behind, and along the NKO line in 1940 it was completely disrupted, due to the late submission by the General Staff and the Communications Directorate of applications for construction materials and the failure to release them. Cabling and the use of compacted bronze wires are being carried out on an extremely limited scale;
4. In topographic terms, the theaters of military operations are far from adequately prepared and the troops’ need for maps is not met.
1. Exactly established actual number of The Red Army does not have any at the time of reception Due to the fault of the Main Directorate of the Red Army, the accounting is in an extremely neglected state.
4. The provision on the service of ordinary and junior command personnel, published in 1931, is outdated, unsuitable for management and no one uses it. A new provision defining the order of service has not been drawn up.
Military discipline is not up to par and does not ensure that troops accurately carry out their assigned combat missions. The main shortcomings in troop training are:
1) Low training of the middle command staff in the company-platoon level and especially weak training of the junior commanding staff.
2) Weak tactical training in all types of combat and reconnaissance, especially small units.
3) Poor practical field training of troops and their inability to perform what is required in a combat situation.
4) The extremely weak training of the combat arms in the interaction on the battlefield: the infantry is not able to snuggle up to and break away from the fire shaft; artillery cannot support tanks; aviation does not know how to interact with ground forces.
5) The troops are not trained in skiing.
6) The use of camouflage worked out poorly.
7) The troops have not worked out fire control.
8) The troops are not trained in attacking fortified areas, building and overcoming barriers and forcing rivers.
7. COMMUNICATIONS TROOPS - currently have many obsolete types of telegraph-telephone and radio equipment in their arsenal. The introduction of new radio equipment is extremely slow and insufficient quantities.
Troops are poorly supplied with almost all types of communications equipment. A major drawback of the communications troops is the lack of high-speed and classified devices.
The experience of the war showed that the Military Councils and the Chiefs of Supply of the districts do not know the actual provision and needs of the units in clothing. Therefore, the units were sent to the front unprovided or provided above the norm according to exaggerated requests and abandoned the property during the offensive. The storage of uniforms and footwear in district warehouses and especially in the warehouses of the units is unsatisfactory. There were cases of theft, damage and illegal issuance of property. The handling of uniforms is careless, repairs are poorly carried out, which is why the uniforms do not always withstand the terms of wear."
and so on

Everything he touched failed - the entire People's Commissariat, wherever he touched.
He just didn't steal (probably?) - the rest is a mess just like now

[bayard]

And who was our Chief of General Staff during that period (on the eve of the Finnish campaign)? Most of the positions you listed were precisely within his competence and direct responsibility. Why don't we remember him?
It is also necessary to remember that the Red Army was a revolutionary army born in the Civil War. The Red Army had very small numbers and in case of an attack by a strong enemy it was prepared to immediately switch to guerrilla warfare (these developments later came in very handy), because the state was weak and the industry was feeble. The growth in numbers and rapid rearmament of the Red Army began following the results of the 1st Five-Year Plan. Until 1935, its numbers were about 500 thousand people, with very weak technical equipment. And then rapid growth began - both in numbers and equipment. And this brought in all that confusion and chaos - everything was happening too quickly, and there were simply no qualified personnel, regulations and methods. New types of troops, new types of weapons, it was necessary to quickly retrain command personnel, and at the same time more and more of them were needed - new divisions, corps, armies were being deployed. What does it mean 500 thousand on foot and on horseback in 1934/35 and 5,3 million in the spring of 1941 with tank corps, air armies, numerous artillery ... and self-loading rifles with a 10-round magazine (no one had such, especially in such quantities - almost 2 million units). So it turned out that the Army was already large, it seemed to have plenty of weapons and equipment, but the organization was extremely unsatisfactory. Everything was happening too quickly. And much was happening for the first time. It was impossible to rely on previous experience or even on the experience of Western countries - a similar mess was happening there. And they could not really determine the place of tanks in battle (the Germans were the first to succeed, and they worked out inter-service interaction brilliantly), and combat interaction, and support of the advancing troops with their aviation (again, only the Germans knew how). And we only just got aviation - numerous and more or less decent ... but neither pilots in sufficient quantities, nor commanders for such a huge aviation abyss - there are no such experienced commanders and all the experience is only being accumulated, assessed, sifted out. As well as personnel. And in the midst of this growth/deployment and permanent chaos, "purges" initiated by the Trotskyist majority of the congress begin, contrary to the will of Stalin, then a military conspiracy led by Tukhachevsky is revealed ... who launched this whole mess, aggravated it and was pulled out by the NKVD from this fascinating process of high treason along with many accomplices and conscientious commanders slandered by them during the investigations. And the Red Army did not have time to recover from such a personnel shake-up and simply new people in positions got used to it - the Polish and Finnish companies. Can you imagine what a time crunch there was then?
But all the bumps and bruises made in the Finnish war were taken into account, understood and largely corrected in the remaining year and a half. Winter uniforms with sheepskin coats, ear-flapped hats, warm mittens, felt boots, skis and ski training, snipers, mobile field kitchens for hot meals for personnel, field baths and laundries, organization of field hospitals and medical evacuation teams, heavy tanks, including those with large assault guns (albeit in a hurry, but the KV-2, and even a 203 mm gun on a T-35 chassis were piled up and covered with a turret-conning tower... didn't have time). Much, much more was realized and corrected. This is what saved our Army in 1941 and gave it a qualitative advantage during the winter campaign of 1941/41 near Moscow and later. The rest was learned and corrected/improved during the War. History simply did not give us more time. We literally walked on the edge. If we had ridden like today, relaxed, for the USSR everything could have ended already in 1941.
And even more so to demand that in such conditions the Army, which is being built practically from scratch - from the partisan detachments of the post-revolutionary period ... is at least strange. We did not have a continuity of military personnel and military school. And what was left of the army of the empire ... did not particularly shine, there were not so many of them, their experience was not always relevant, and there was not much trust in them ... And nevertheless, they prepared for the War, withstood the first blows, wiped themselves off and reached Berlin. And Voroshilov showed himself in all his organizational glory precisely in the leadership of the defense industry in the position of Chief of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and Deputy Supreme Commander-in-Chief. Under his leadership, our military industry ground up and overcame the entire military industry of the united Europe. And the efficiency, the production output from each machine tool, each ton of steel was several times higher than in Germany. Which is surprising, but a fact. It can't be called anything other than a miracle for a country that had just stepped out of bast shoes and illiteracy into the industrial era. That's how the advantages of our social system, planned organization of labor and State Ideology manifested themselves. By all accounts, we couldn't win that war, but we not only won, but we came out of the war much stronger, more literate, more experienced and seasoned.
And to understand how much technical progress was ahead of its time and the level of training of personnel, it is enough to look at the history of arming the Red Army with self-loading rifles. The best rifles in the world at that time, perfect and quite reliable ... but they required proper operation, proper cleaning and maintenance. And our fighters came from villages. For them, such a rifle is like a blaster of a stormtrooper of the galactic fleet for a modern motorized rifleman ... They destroyed their rifles, got lost, normally mastered one out of ten. They began to give them to those who mastered them and a couple of assistants - to carry and reload rifles for the shooter. And then they completely withdrew them from the Army (some were given to the Navy, the sailors there are more literate), and Mosin rifles were returned to service and their production was restarted (by that time already curtailed). And while these wonderful rifles were in the troops ... there was chaos. And so it is in many ways. If we had had another year or two to prepare, we would have had a completely different Army. But that is precisely why Hitler attacked in 1941.

[strannik1985]

The structure is different belay, but the effect is the same - "there has been no verification of mobilized persons since 1927", "Plans are exclusively on paper", "There are no mobilization reserves"

In 1940, when the USSR first allowed itself tank divisions, the total revenues of the state budget were 179,25 billion rubles, and defense expenditures were 56,75 billion rubles. For comparison, in 1935, the total revenues of the USSR were 70 billion rubles, and defense expenditures were 8,2 billion rubles. Do you think a 7-fold difference has any effect? ​​This is just one example.
In order to correctly plan the growth of the army by the end of the 30s, it is necessary to literally know or accurately calculate that the Union is not threatened by war in the 30s, and in the conflicts of 1938-1939, it is possible to get by with single-deployment cadre divisions. By the way, the superpowers of that time - France and England - were unable to create tank divisions, and we do not even take Poland into account.
The second point. It was under Voroshilov that they bet on a protracted war, on large losses, and this fully justified itself. The evacuation of industry, a large army and large stockpiles of weapons, all of which made it possible to launch the conveyor belt of permanent mobilization, and later to more or less decently arm and train about five hundred rifle divisions alone.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Esso

then it's already Tsaritsyn, not Stalingrad

Moreover, Stalin, it seems, distinguished himself in the battles near Tsaritsyn, and not near Stalingrad.

[Sergei Fonov]

Esso!
Quote from the USSR: "To hold a vote and return the city to its heroic name of Stalingrad sounds proud."
Your quote: "Don't write crap, if it's History then it's Tsaritsyn, not Stalingrad."
A person writes about a heroic name, you insult him, if you are not able to understand the difference between a heroic name and a historical one, then that is your problem.

[Orange Bigg]

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

For you proudly. And have you tried asking the city residents before renaming their city? No, during the Victory Day celebrations, renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad as a tribute to the heroic past of the city is quite an adequate solution. But if we rename forever, then it would be logical for all the cities to return their Soviet names. There are Kuibyshev, Kirov, Ordzhonikidze, Kirovograd, Leningrad and at the same time change the flag to the Red Soviet one, and return other symbols of the state of the Soviet model. Well, that would be logical then. But then the question of the ideology of the state, the time in which we live and the correspondence of all this to the trends of the time and the desires / unwillingness of the people arises. And this is already difficult. Because renaming Stalingrad alone will turn out to be a very strange and illogical decision that looks more like a one-time PR campaign than a consistent policy. Nothing will change from this one decision. Someone will simply remember the past and will make you nostalgic. That's all.

[shin]

All these issues of “renaming” can be resolved in one fell swoop – by recreating the socialist state – the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

[Orange Bigg]

All that remains is to find Old Man Hottabych. How do you imagine this? Neither the elites nor the peoples who have lived for many years in dozens of different countries will want this. The St. George ribbon is worn only in Russia, and in Belarus it is simply not banned, but they wear their own ribbon. This is a vivid example illustrating the changes that have occurred in post-Soviet countries and their societies, a litmus test. I am not even talking about the Baltics, Ukraine, Central Asia, the same 3 post-Soviet Transcaucasian republics. Everyone has already gotten used to it and will not want to go back. Although if you find Old Man Hottabych, you can try.

[shin]

I can't imagine it at all. It was just a light joke. That's it, the best time in the entire history of Russia (the Soviet era) will never return. If I had known in the late 80s how the "humane democratic socialism" of Gorbachev's kind would end, I would have gone with arms in hand to defend my Soviet Motherland.

[leks]

Quote: golen

All these issues of “renaming” can be resolved in one fell swoop – by recreating the socialist state – the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Another dreamer
How do you imagine this, I wonder, perhaps for you everything should happen with a wave of a magic wand and the USSR should return
You need to think a little with your head and understand that the USSR with its ideology, political, economic, social components will never return, no matter how much you want it. And if this magic does happen, then be sure that the country will finally disintegrate under the blow of socio-economic upheavals into small states, as it was with the Russian Empire, and the sworn Western partners will help with this.

[shin]

Have you heard anything about the word "irony"? Still haven't learned to recognize light banter and serious judgments?

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Where were you when your socialist state was collapsing? Yes, the "whites" were an order of magnitude higher than you during the civil war, they defended their ideals with their lives, and you didn't lift a finger to defend the socialist fatherland in 1991.

[shin]

And you, I’m embarrassed to ask, were you a dissident at that time?

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

I didn't even think about it. I was very upset when it happened, exactly like that and in that way. But some of my friends went to defend the White House in 1993. And what did the forum loudmouths do to defend their homeland?
They did nothing. They were expecting apartments from the new regime based on their years of service.
And now they have service pensions in the amount of the average salary.

[shin]

You are not quite right about the Whites. Everyone had their own interests there, some were for the return of the "ancestral noble nest", some were for the tsar, some were for the republic, some were for "White Rus'" even with the devil but against the "rebellious cattle", some wanted to rob, some were mobilized, not everyone went to Denikin's volunteer army, some served the Central Rada Ukraine, and then the Germans in the person of Hetman Skoropadsky. As did the officers in the Red Army. Such is life. I served as an officer in the Soviet Army in the late 80s, you know, everything was by order, the Prigozhins were not there then, and the State Emergency Committee turned out to be a bunch of nobodies. But I could not defend the White House in 1993, since I continued to serve in Minsk, in the army of another state.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

But they fought for their ideas, not sparing their lives. And what did the members of the CPSU do at that time? They surrendered their union and their party without complaint, without any resistance. Do these people deserve respect? Do these people have the right to teach life?
And what did you, as an officer of the Soviet Army, do to defend your socialist fatherland? Nothing. You expected an apartment from the new regime and most likely got it.
He was also an officer, so what? He did nothing to defend that fatherland.

[shin]

Of course not. Double standards had already corrupted the people of the Soviet Union. The ideological Bolsheviks who had sat under the Tsar for their beliefs had already died out, the best communists had been taken by the Great Patriotic War. And the CPSU essentially became a party not of the working class, but of government officials. Its leadership was essentially run by opportunists and careerists. At meetings, one thing was said, correct and morally uplifting, and after the meeting, the prose of life began, including the principle: you give to me, and I give to you. The problem was in the degeneration of the Communist Party after Stalin's death, especially its leadership. Purges were needed, but there was no one to start them. Almost 19 million members of the CPSU turned out to be a mass obedient to their leadership, the principle of collegiality in decision-making at party meetings practically turned into the principle of "approving" everything that the boss, the commander says... That's how Gorbachev, like a ram-provocateur, led us to the slaughter of the world bourgeoisie.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

This is empty talk. What have you personally done to defend your communist convictions? The answer will be nothing. So why do you demand anything and consider it possible to impose your convictions?

[shin]

What are you talking about? What am I imposing on whom?

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Then we stick to our guns. Volgograd remains Volgograd, and the airport becomes Stalingrad. A very successful option, when both the wolves are fed and the sheep are safe. No one is forgotten and nothing is forgotten.

[shin]

But it is not for you and me to decide. Let the residents of Volgograd make the decision.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

When the locals say no to you, with a margin of more than 2/3, what will you do, dissatisfied Stalinist? They won't want to pray to a Georgian, they won't accept him as a prophet, what then? What will you risk, what are you putting on the line, eternally yesterday's?

[shin]

That's why I bet that there are no more than 1/3 of sick liberals like you in our country. . Yes, and Glory to Comrade Stalin!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Oh, don't label me. I have nothing in common with today's liberals. But you are weak and truly devoid of ideas. You didn't stand up for your country in 1991, you didn't stand up for it in 1993. And your "prophet" is strange. How can we follow you weaklings and worship your long-dead leader?

[shin]

You are not a liberal, you are worse. At least they clearly state their position - anti-communism, anti-Sovietism... And you are hanging around like a piece of shit in an ice hole, but at the same time you are still trying to moralize here, to reproach others for lack of ideas. You are simply funny because you do not understand this.

[begemot20091]

Kalashnikov in Solovyov tells something different

[begemot20091]

Why did you take the oath of another state? That's the question. I am one of the "suits", as you called us, but I did not betray the OATH of the USSR. I also ended up in another state. Nothing, I did not die. I lived to receive a civil pension, although there was a little left until the end of my service - yes, the pension is less than yours for those who "served to the end", but I calmly say, with a clear conscience, "I HAVE THE HONOR".

[your1970]

Quote: golen

All these issues of “renaming” can be resolved in one fell swoop – by recreating the socialist state – the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Yes, you can. But you'll be very shocked.

[Sergei Fonov]

"..., then it would be logical for all cities to return their Soviet names."
This is not logic, this is a conclusion by analogy and, excuse me, demagogy: if one city was changed, then all the others should change their names, all at once, en masse.

[paul3390]

Maybe he will also return our great Motherland, the Soviet Union, on this occasion?

[Dutchman Michel]

Quote: paul3390

Maybe he will also return our great Motherland, the Soviet Union, on this occasion?

If this kind of drinking has already started, then the Alcohol Center in Yekaterinburg should be closed, razed to the ground and filled with bleach!

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

And who should return your homeland to you for you? You didn't defend it, so why should we?

[paul3390]

Has anyone ever asked you for anything? I'll tell you more - no one even asked for your enlightened opinion.

[abacus66]

I think the city's residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

Let's assume you were joking...

[1976AG]

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

I can imagine how surprised you will be when you learn that the overwhelming majority of residents are against the renaming.

[Sergey Aleksandrovich]

Of course, the current name of the city is beautiful and many of the city's residents know very well who Dzhugashvili (Stalin) is.

[Grits]

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

I am sure that there would be few opponents of this renaming. Therefore, there is no point in wasting time - to make such a gift to the city residents and all Russian people for May 9!

[1976AG]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: USSR.

Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.

I am sure that there would be few opponents of this renaming. Therefore, there is no point in wasting time - to make such a gift to the city residents and all Russian people for May 9!

The best gift for the city residents would be to stop this eternal discussion of renaming. For decades, at least twice a year, idlers have been raising this issue. They are incredibly annoying!!! Our city is full of real problems, but in the media field, only two mainly appear - renaming and switching to local time. And if the issue of renaming does not come up for at least one year, this will be the biggest gift to us on May 9.

[esso]

Quote: silberwolf88

I think it is very appropriate to rename the city to Stalingrad... and this is also part of the historical truth for which our grandfathers paid with their lives

More than half of the people (city residents) are against it, personally I am too. Why? Enough of this nonsense, Volgograd has many other problems. The reason is financial costs... Renaming is looking into the past, there should be memory of events, but not in this. And let's also rename St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg...

[1976AG]

Quote: Esso

Quote: silberwolf88

I think it is very appropriate to rename the city to Stalingrad... and this is also part of the historical truth for which our grandfathers paid with their lives

More than half of the people (city residents) are against it, personally I am too. Why? Enough of this nonsense, Volgograd has many other problems. The reason is financial costs... Renaming is looking into the past, there should be memory of events, but not in this. And let's also rename St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg...

You said everything very correctly, but jingoism is flourishing here, people do not want to look the truth in the eye, they need a beautiful fairy tale and a corresponding picture.

[esso]

Quote: 1976AG

Quote: Esso

Quote: silberwolf88

I think it is very appropriate to rename the city to Stalingrad... and this is also part of the historical truth for which our grandfathers paid with their lives

More than half of the people (city residents) are against it, personally I am too. Why? Enough of this nonsense, Volgograd has many other problems. The reason is financial costs... Renaming is looking into the past, there should be memory of events, but not in this. And let's also rename St. Petersburg and Yekaterinburg...

You said everything very correctly, but jingoism is flourishing here, people do not want to look the truth in the eye, they need a beautiful fairy tale and a corresponding picture.

The main thing is that the fairy tale does not turn into the horror of reality....

[nik-mazur]

Quote: 1976AG

jingoism flourishes here

Stalinists and supporters of the USSR are mostly turbo-patriots who consider hurray-patriots worse than enemies.
What’s funny is that the rhetoric of turbopatriots and liberals largely coincides almost verbatim, despite their mutual hatred.

[1976AG]

Quote: silberwolf88

I think it is very appropriate to rename the city to Stalingrad... and this is also part of the historical truth for which our grandfathers paid with their lives

But there is another part to this historical truth. It is that people at that time lived in constant fear for their lives even in peacetime. Many had everything they needed in advance, since anyone could be taken away any day or even at night. Many never returned. And it did not depend on the position they held or the type of work they did. Many snitched on many. But could you live like that for years in fear for yourself and your loved ones? Would you want to? It happened. And Stalin knew it very well. This is one of the reasons why people who happened to live at that time were against returning Stalin's name to our city. But now it has become unfashionable to remember this.

[begemot20091]

Stop this Solzhenitsyn nonsense. I lived in areas where there were many exiled people. The pig-faced Ichukhontsy were especially "distinguished". They were the shittiest: everything was done on the sly. I lived in those old times, and they never shut my mouth. For example, here is this "anthem": The rocket is fueled,
And there is no peace in the heart,
And the navigator clarifies
The last time is the route.
Let's sing a song, friend.
Cherished with you,
Before the start yet
Five minutes left:

chorus

I know, friends,
That many years will pass,
And the world will forget
About our works,
But in the form of fragments
Various missiles
Our tracks will remain.

Announced by communication
Ready in a minute -
Rocket to the crew,
Taking off, promises success.
We have to work hard for days
The status is not news,
So, for good luck
It's not a sin to take a hundred.

P r and p e in

In Prohibition and Alcohol
It goes as well as rum –
For future heroes
Pour some more into the glass.
The rocket flew away,
And it's time for us to go home -
Let him go hoarse now
Comrade Levitan!

P r and p e in

Into unknown distances
The rockets are flying away –
On the fingers of astronauts
It's impossible to count:
They are in the tablets maps
Today they are in charge,
And tomorrow we are at the start
The rocket is waiting again.

P r and p e in

Trailers, barracks
Yes, dusty roads -
We've had a lot of things happen to us,
Comrade, try it:
Let the newspapers write,
That we live like gods,
Let's remember the newspaper
And we go with her "for a walk".

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Putin: Renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is a good and logical idea

If only they would stop draping the Mausoleum during the Parade, it would be absolutely wonderful
p.s. I would like to see the faces of all sorts of "albats", "gozmans" and "latynins" when they are told this news

[sidorov]

Quote: Magnetar

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

We have a secular state

Secular, but not atheistic. Fighting religion is the same as fighting monuments. Both are our history, which only very limited people can deny.

It is no longer necessary to fight religion. Its principles have not been assimilated for a thousand years.

I will reveal to you a great secret: in the USSR there were no laws obliging to fight religion. There were laws obliging to fight fanatical sects....

The serfs who ran ahead of the locomotive fought against religion. And the priests who turned religion into a business and collaborated with foreign agents. Moreover, since the 50s, Moscow priests lived very well. And it is not very clear where they got the money from.

[bober1982]

Comrade Sidorov, how did Moscow priests live quite well since the 50s, according to you, if since those same 50s the Church has been persecuted, comparable to the times of the Roman emperors. They tried to strangle the Church economically, among other things. They were saved by white scarves, and that's where the money came from. Peace, labor, May - congratulations!

[Was mammoth]

Quote: bober1982

Comrade Sidorov, how is it that Moscow priests lived quite well from the 50s, according to you, if from those same 50s persecutions of the Church began, comparable to the times of the Roman emperors.

From the "History" thread:
"For their salaries, considerable amounts of money for that time were collected from each household: from landowners and patrimonial owners - 20 kopecks, Church and palace departments paid 25 kopecks, a tenth of the income was taken from the merchants."
Even Peter the Great suspected something.

[bober1982]

Maybe Peter I, as he suspected, maybe he promised to show the last Moscow priest on television, but who knows!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Magnetar

Fighting religion is the same thing

and who fights religion?!

[Magnetar]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and who fights religion?!

You are against fencing off the Mausoleum during the parade. I understand and respect your position. But I also respect the opinion of those who are disturbed by walks along the resting place for the reasons I described above.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Magnetar

But I also respect the opinion of those who are disturbed by walking past the burial site for the reasons I described above.

and who are they bothering?!!!!
I don't remember that the relatives of those buried near the Kremlin wall, and especially Lenin, expressed their concerns

[Magnetar]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and who are they bothering?!!!!

Believers. But also moral people. I am sure you would also be against large gatherings at the cemetery.
Personally, I am not a believer, not even baptized. But I do not consider myself entitled to impose my materialistic position on those who do not agree with it.
I am always ready for discussion, but I will not deny an opinion that does not coincide with mine.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Magnetar

Believers. But also moral people.

Why did you so sweetly avoid the second question?

[Magnetar]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Why did you so sweetly avoid the second question?

The question was:

and who are they bothering?!!!!

I answered it. Didn't I?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

absolutely and do not make a remote face

[Magnetar]

In that case, please clarify your question. I probably didn't understand, I apologize.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Magnetar

I don't remember that the relatives of those buried near the Kremlin wall, and especially Lenin, expressed their concerns

[Magnetar]

Soviet ideology did not assume the flaunting of religiosity. However, infants were baptized and the dead were buried.
Accordingly, relatives of the top officials of the state could not afford to demonstrate their religiosity.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I see, they avoided answering again

[Magnetar]

Sorry, didn't live up to expectations.)

[Jager]

The Kremlin is not a cemetery. Those buried there are a tribute to the great people of the country. And a parade is not a disco. Don't confuse it.

[Vladimir-TTT]

Quote: Jager

And a parade is not a disco. Don't confuse them.

It was at the foot of the Mausoleum (now shamefully nailed down for May 9) that our country, having defeated the fascists, threw their fallen banners.
Ukraine - Nazism and fascism.
Three years and more - there is no victory and none is expected. Only if there are negotiations.
Maybe we should stop draping the Mausoleum?

[bober1982]

I'll butt into your conversation, excuse me, I'm interested. The thing is that the resting places you mentioned are absurd, to say the least. For this reason, believers are not bothered by this.

[esso]

Yes, our secular state is strange, a necropolis in the center of the Country... Maybe it's time to take out the corpses and ashes of the Withered

[sidorov]

Quote: Esso

Yes, our secular state is strange, a necropolis in the center of the Country... Maybe it's time to take out the corpses and ashes of the Withered

The relics of Orthodox saints in Moscow monasteries or churches? Or the relics of the tsars in the Archangel Cathedral of the Kremlin?
Do they bother you? Or do the believers who venerate the relics bother you? And you don't have to go there...

[esso]

These traditions go far back into the past in faith, do not confuse with Communist Populism to live forever, and drawing from the times of the Egyptian pharaohs, and this is paganism. The second place for Mausoleums and Ashes is in Cemeteries, and not in the center of the country. Relics are shrines, Orthodoxy, and the corpse of the leader is a relic of the past. I repeat, communists do not reach the level of saints. By the way, they blew up and demolished churches and cathedrals, and removed the relics ... having banned faith. Where I go, decide for yourself, I will not ask you. If you do not like believers, but you are ready to venerate the relics of the dead Lenin, squealing with pleasure, your right, but not in the center of the country. The President of the Russian Federation hinted that the time will come and they will remove it, he himself does not want this, so as not to be remembered as a fighter against communism, until he retires, those who still pray to the ashes of the leader or the corpse.

[begemot20091]

Communists went into battle and died at the front. And you, my dear? Would you like to join in?

[kromer]

Quote: begemot20091

Communists went into battle and died at the front.

Among those who went into battle and died in battle, the majority were non-party members.

[Jager]

The relics are holy objects of Orthodoxy, but the leader’s corpse is a relic of the past.

It is curious, but the Leader considered the worship of relics to be a relic of the past... And it was not by his will that he was buried in the mausoleum.

[esso]

Quote: Jager

The relics are holy objects of Orthodoxy, but the leader’s corpse is a relic of the past.

It is curious, but the Leader considered the worship of relics to be a relic of the past... And it was not by his will that he was buried in the mausoleum.

And he also worked for Germany, made people bow to portraits, taught how to export revolution, in the end he himself was removed from power, they waited until he died, embalmed him, built a mausoleum and still won't let him go. With the same success they could have cremated him and made a giant hourglass with the leader's ashes on the Red Square. Let the leader work...Curious.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

they interfere, so I would remove both the relics and the mummy of Blank along with a bunch of other gevolutionists.
I would have erected a huge monument to Stalin, but I would have removed the letterhead, because he was only the organizer of the revolution for the masses, but in fact he was just a PR manager and an advertising face (like Navalny a decade ago, his mug was everywhere, but everyone understood that the CIA was in charge of everything, and not some Russian liberals dreaming of good for Russia), but in fact, everything was done by Leiba Bronstein, who ate at his relatives' (read who was the relative of such an ardent revolutionist) and took money from Jewish banks (and not from German intelligence) and the goals there were such that thank all the gods that Stalin won, otherwise Russians as an ethnic group would not have existed for 50-80 years.

[Jager]

I do not recommend reading Novodvorskaya’s works at night.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

there, one photo of her is enough to discourage anyone from reading her works.
and my info is from a bunch of other sources because this topic is just my hobby and I dug through so many materials that I still have a wild dislike for some of them as respected historical figures. Although in the world they are almost idolized, I am a very strong patriot of the USSR, but for me the USSR died in 1953, after that there was only its ghost, and in fact a continuation of the States. The exception is some politicians whom ordinary people would not consider patriots of the USSR. Chernenko and Andropov turned out to be just that, although Andropov was a Jew, he turned out to be more Russian than the Ukrainian-born Khrushch and even Brezhnev, but already under Khrushch the USSR began to be ruled by those people who were related to the Federal Reserve System and a bunch of retired people from the KGB more than once let it slip that there were strange visits of big people from the West to the USSR and vice versa and that far from those topics of struggle or friendship of the West were discussed there, but ordinary commercial interests, and yes, we even had our oligarchs then, they just weren’t advertised.

[Jager]

Why did you dislike Ulyanov so much?)

[Pavel Kislyakov]

the same as Navalny........................

[Jager]

I'm afraid to even comment here.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

and it's not worth it, I've been interested in this topic (who organizes revolutions) for about 30 years and have read a lot of material, there are even materials from archives that are simply not available. Therefore, the opinion of ordinary people who know about Blank only from textbooks where he was described as a kind grandfather (yeah, Blank at 50+ is a kind grandfather, and Putin at 60+ is a young energetic leader, how they present him is how they will remember him) is not very interesting to me.

[1976AG]

Quote: Pavel Kislyakov

and it's not worth it, I've been interested in this topic (who organizes revolutions) for about 30 years and have read a lot of material, there are even materials from archives that are simply not available. Therefore, the opinion of ordinary people who know about Blank only from textbooks where he was described as a kind grandfather (yeah, Blank at 50+ is a kind grandfather, and Putin at 60+ is a young energetic leader, how they present him is how they will remember him) is not very interesting to me.

But the most interesting thing is that when the government changes again, then somehow the next "inaccessible to many" materials from the archives are immediately found, which refute what was previously considered the truth. No one has actually seen these materials, but everyone refers to them. More precisely, those who have access to closed archives will never blab about what they saw there, but there are always plenty of those who babble about what they did not see.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

You can look for the information that Bronstein is a relative of American Jewish bankers yourself, I didn’t attach those archives here as an argument.
Well, who was in charge of the revolution is no secret either, it's just that information takes time, and people who limit themselves to a textbook usually don't spend it on things that people don't really care about. That is, they won't look for anything, they're too lazy and don't have time to read entire books, so Lenin is the head of everything, and who the hell cares about the demon of the revolution, how could they not know why Stalin cut off the supply of ammunition to Tukhachevsky, why we lost to the Poles, they're not interested in why Bronstein erected a statue in Kazan, but to whom? To Judas Iscariot. And why would an atheist communist erect monuments to religious figures, and thinking negatively is also harmful

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Esso

necropolis in the center of the Country... Maybe it's time to take out the corpses and ashes of the Withered

and it doesn't bother you that someone is kissing the relics?!

[esso]

in the center of the country? No, in temples and cathedrals. Don't confuse Orthodoxy and Paganism

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I'll tell you a terrible secret now, but the period of paganism in our country exceeds the period of Orthodoxy
what you wrote is quite controversial but
Does an Orthodox person have more rights than a pagan?

[esso]

discoverer, ahaha it doesn't matter whether it exceeds or not. Our country has moved away from Paganism, before the main religion was Orthodoxy, now it has been pushed aside. Secular. There are people who will argue, to the point of melting... but I have met such people in one independent country. Paganism is a very small number, and yes, they have fewer rights, because officially it is not considered a religion in the Russian Federation.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Esso

Our country has moved away from Paganism, previously the main religion was Orthodoxy

I understand that people like you absolutely do not know the culture and history of your people, but not to such an extent!!!!
paganism hasn't gone anywhere, forgive me, it was so deeply woven into Orthodoxy that it's not always clear where one ends and the other begins
A huge number of Orthodox holidays have pagan roots
and on a daily level, we have so many pagan customs that it's mind-boggling
and as for rights, my advice to you is to read the Constitution and try not to write nonsense

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

the period of paganism in our country exceeds the period of Orthodoxy

Can you indicate the dates of the periods?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

paganism was quite widespread even under Ivan the Terrible, so just imagine

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Well, just imagine

To estimate the duration, you need to know the starting point and the end point.
Christianity in Rus' officially began in 988. Today, that's 1037 years.
When did paganism begin in Rus' and when did it end?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

based on the fact that at the time of the emergence of Christianity there was already paganism, then we can safely say that it is older and has been present among our people longer, we still celebrate pagan holidays and use pagan rules

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

at the time of the emergence of Christianity there was already paganism

It was, but it had practically disappeared by the 14th century. After that, paganism as a religion did not exist. Remnants remained in the form of folklore and ethnographic manifestations.
And since Rus, as a state, appeared at the end of the 9th century, paganism in Rus existed for no more than five hundred years, and, moreover, for the last three hundred years it was in a state of degradation.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

we still celebrate pagan holidays and use pagan rules

I wonder what religious pagan holidays and rules have survived to our time? And who, I wonder, now seriously celebrates religious pagan holidays and/or lives by pagan rules?
Rodnovers and other idiots are not offered, since this is a fantasy remake that has nothing to do with real ancient paganism.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote from: nik-mazur

I wonder what kind of religious pagan holidays and rules have survived to this day?

I don't even see the point in answering such a stupid question

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I don't see the point in answering

And this is right - when there is nothing to answer, it is better to remain silent.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

these are the most famous ones for you, so order
Christmastide
Maslenitsa
Ivan Kupala

if we start to analyze Orthodox holidays that have pagan roots, there will be many times more
p.s. if we talk about traditions and customs, then letting a cat into a new house first is a purely pagan ritual, and one connected specifically with religious issues

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Christmastide Maslenitsa Ivan Kupala

It would seem so... but in fact there are a couple of problems.
Firstly, practically nothing is known about Slavic paganism due to the lack of written sources. All information ranges from honest assumptions and guesses to shameless stretching of a mythological owl onto the globe of anticlericalism.
To be sure of the absence of real information, it is enough to answer the question: what were Svyatki, Maslenitsa and Ivan Kupala called before the advent of Christianity in Rus'? You are aware that the traditional Russian name Ivan, to put it mildly, was not widespread among pagans?
Secondly, there is one absolutely obvious fact, but it escapes the attention of neo-pagans and atheists: the holidays of Christmas and Epiphany, Great Lent and, accordingly, the Meatfare Week before it, the Beheading of John the Baptist appeared and became widespread in the Christian environment in the second-fourth century in the early Churches of the Middle East and the Mediterranean. Do you get the gist? The ancient Greeks, Copts and Syrians did not care at all what, how and when the Slavic pagans celebrated. And therefore, the early Christians could not tie the dates of their holidays to pagan ones. As well as celebrate the transition from winter to spring, since there was no winter in those parts.
So, alas and alack, the pagan roots of Christian holidays are a myth. And a relatively recent one at that – mostly from the mid-19th and early 20th centuries.
So, you will have to come to terms with the fact that:

Holidays

Christmastide (holy days) – the period from the feast of the Nativity of Christ to the Epiphany Eve.

Carnival – 1) an East Slavic folk holiday celebrated during the week before Lent;
2) popular name for Cheese Week.
For Orthodox Christians, Cheese Week, Maslenitsa, is a week of preparation for Lent.
One of the popular interpretations of Maslenitsa, as a holiday of farewell to winter among the ancient Slavs, is nothing more than a guess that has no serious basis.
Popular attributes of Maslenitsa (scarecrow, pancakes, etc.) began to be perceived as an integral part of the celebration only in Soviet times.

Ivan Kupala (Ivan's Day, Ivanshchina, Ivana Kupala, Kupala) is a folk holiday of the Eastern Slavs, celebrated on June 24 (July 7), dedicated to, according to researchers, the summer solstice and the highest flowering of nature. In time and name it coincides with the Christian holiday of the Nativity of John the Baptist, from which it takes its name: since the name of John is the Baptist, literally translated from Greek is a bather, a immerser in water.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Letting a cat into a new home first is a purely pagan ritual, and is connected specifically with religious aspects

And you can, of course, back this up with credible proof?
In fact, this is not a ritual, but a common superstition, of which there have always been many, and especially in secularized societies.
By the way, paganism is impossible without priests and sacrifices. And pagan priests in Rus' were last mentioned in the chronicles of the 13th-14th centuries.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

And what is superstition?
What was Paraskeva Friday called before Christianity?

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

what is superstition

The belief that certain actions, objects, or events bring good or bad luck, despite the lack of a rational explanation.
The word "superstition" is formed from the words "suye" - "in vain, in vain" - and "faith". The literal meaning of this word is "empty faith", that is, faith that is not genuine, vain.
Another way to call superstition is prejudice or bias.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

what was paraskeva friday called before christianity

Just like Ivan Kupala – it wasn’t called anything, because before Christianity it simply didn’t exist. Paraskeva was born in the 3rd century in the city of Iconium – this is on the territory of modern Turkey, approximately between Antalya and Ankara. Therefore, she couldn’t have been the Slavic Mokosha. Especially considering that it is not known for certain whether the Slavs had this Mokosha.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

that is, it is still faith, but from the point of view of another faith it is vain
once again, she couldn't have been Mokosha, but if we start comparing holidays, they coincide very strangely, I won't even mention the fairy tales where paganism is pouring out of all the cracks

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

that is, it is still faith, but from the point of view of another faith it is vain

No, superstition is a vain faith from the point of view of any serious faith, not excluding pagan faith.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

if we start comparing holidays, they coincide very wonderfully

That's what I'm talking about, that it's very strange when the holidays of the early Christian Church, for some reason, coincide with the holidays of the Slavic pagans, if we believe the researchers of the 19th and 20th centuries. Apparently, the Greeks in the 3rd-4th centuries also sang carols in the month of Yenares, the Egyptians saw off winter, and the Syrians jumped over a fire and looked for fern flowers in the Sinai desert.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I'm already silent about fairy tales where paganism is pouring out of every crack

You won’t believe it, but the ancient fairy tales we know appeared only two hundred years ago, and at that time there were fewer pagan motifs in them, and many more Christian ones.
Again, paganism is not about wrapping a red thread around your wrist, knocking on wood, telling a fairy tale, or even jumping over a fire – paganism involves sacrifices, priests, and a mandatory tribal worldview with mutual responsibility and collective accountability, when one is for all and all are for one.
Without this, paganism is, at worst, just a role-playing game.

[PavelKosse]

Isn't Cathedral Square on the territory of the Kremlin? Isn't the Kremlin the political center of Russia?

[esso]

Tired of repeating This is Religion. Cathedral Square, Orthodoxy. Kremlin Fortress. The foundation of the state is Religion, Power... but the mausoleum appeared with a corpse during the period of who and why everyone knows. To Religion and Power. This is part of the ideology under which religion was banned, then the ideology collapsed, Religion returned. And the mausoleum with a corpse, on which they spend money and do not bury... The corpse has nothing to do with the mausoleum, it is a tribute to the old people who honor the leader, the deceased.

[1976AG]

Quote: Magnetar

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

If only they would stop draping the Mausoleum during the Parade, it would be absolutely wonderful

The Darkest explained why this is done. A large crowd of people, loud music, the roar of equipment disturb the peace of the deceased. From the Orthodox point of view, this is an insult and blasphemy. But the resting place of Vladimir Ilyich is unchanged. Therefore, at least this way we can protect him from the vanity of the world.

So it’s not only Lenin who is buried on Red Square, so why isn’t the Kremlin wall behind the mausoleum draped?

[hagen]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

If only they would stop draping the Mausoleum during the Parade, it would be absolutely wonderful

It would be if the CPRF collected 50% or more in population support ratings, not 10% as it is today... The fact that Lenin was not buried at all according to his will, but the entire Mausoleum complex is maintained, is more the merit of Putin, who respects the memory of the remaining old people, and not the work and significance of the CPRF in the life of the country.

[Whose Whose]

The myth about "his will" is propaganda from the late 80s.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Whose Whose

The myth of "his will" is propaganda from the late 80s

Hmm, Lenin expressed his will to be mummified and put on display for all eternity in a specially built crypt?

[Alexei]

And it would be even better to establish industry and introduce a planned economy; that would be more logical, and Comrade Stalin would appreciate it.

[Sensor]

On July 29, 2022, the Russian Ministry of Justice added Albats to the register of media outlets - "foreign agents" On September 6, 2022, she announced her departure from Russia to the United States, where she plans to teach in New York
rk University.

Gozman is a member of Chubais' clique. On May 6, 2022, the Russian Ministry of Justice added Gozman to the list of media outlets that are "foreign agents"
Lives in Israel.

Latynina, a talented writer by the way, with an indomitable imagination, glorified the "new Russians". She marked herself with an oscilloscope needle and a meteorite's boat number, which, incidentally, she publicly repented of.
Lives in Peredelkino.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Sensor

Latynina, by the way, is a talented writer

I won't argue about her writing talent, I haven't read it, but the fact that she's a fool is a fact, I've listened to her works more than once

[Sensor]

I won't argue about her writing talent.

The film "Khottabych" was shot based on her story, at the height of the perestroika frenzy.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Sensor

The film "Khottabych" was shot based on her story, at the height of the perestroika frenzy.

nuuu
If this is based on her story, I won't even read the rest

[Sensor]

It's a matter of taste. She wrote about the New Russian bandits, romanticized them, but she's far from the level of Mario Puzo. The New Russians, no matter how you look at it, are our history, the ripping up of state property with the silent consent of the majority.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I won't even argue, but I'll repeat, forgive me, but she doesn't have much intelligence

[Sensor]

You might think that most writers are at the level of Walter or at least Gorky, Remarque, Sinclair Lewis.
Here is Astafyev, "Cursed and Killed" is written with talent, but after reading it the impression is disgusting.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I repeat once again, she is just a fool, listen to her programs and the questions will disappear, we leave her writing activity out of the equation

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Sensor

The film "Khottabych" was based on her story

Oops:

"Khottabych" is a Russian adventure comedy based on the novel by Sergei Oblomov (Klado) "The Copper Jug of Old Man Khottabych".
"The Copper Jug of Old Man Hottabych" is a fairy tale-truth by Sergei Klado (first editions under the pseudonym Sergei Oblomov), published by Zakharov (2000-2006), which uses and plays on the general plot of the stories "The Copper Jug" by F. Anstey (English: The Brass Bottle, 1900) and "Old Man Hottabych" (1938) by Lazar Lagin.

Latynina is not mentioned in the credits.

[begemot20091]

Journalist Yulia Latynina* is actively working on Western grants on Russophobic topics. She is currently in Tallinn. Khottabych - screenplay by Veronika Voznyak, Sergey Klado. And the old man Khottabych was written by Lagin

[Zagrebun]

Latynina, by the way, is a talented writer with an indomitable imagination

A darting arrow? I have a very unhealthy suspicion that that novel was simply published under her name.

[bayard]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

If only they would stop draping the Mausoleum during the Parade, it would be absolutely wonderful

Xi and Kim will come to this parade, how will it be for them to witness this blasphemy with the Mausoleum fenced off... They threw fascist banners at its foot... Our helmsman on the galley will be disgraced, especially after "readiness to negotiate with the fascists without preconditions"... Or will he not even show Will, but at least Common Sense and drive out the carpenters?

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I wish they would stop draping the Mausoleum during the Parade

I'm embarrassed to ask: what does Lenin, who died in 1924, have to do with the Victory Parade?

[andrey martov]

By renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad alone, Vladimir Vladimirovich will go down in history, not to mention his other outstanding achievements! . . .

[yuriy55]

Quote: andrey martov

not to mention his other outstanding achievements!

I only know about the return of Crimea, the Kerch Bridge and the agreement with the DPRK...
Remind me of the rest...

[PavelKosse]

Return of Donetsk, Lugansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia regions, i.e. historically Russian territories to the Russian Federation. There are currently battles in the Kharkov and Sumy regions. But taking into account the above, a lot has already been done

[yuriy55]

Quote: Pavel Kosse

Return of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia regions

Yes... It was he who signed four federal constitutional laws on the entry of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions into the Russian Federation.

[PavelKosse]

For my father, a native of the Tambov region, a Russian who lived most of his life in the Donetsk region, including the "independent" period, it was very important that the President signed these laws. In 1991, my father found himself abroad, without leaving anywhere. And in 2022, he returned to his homeland, living at the same address. For him, this is important. As it is for me. And for millions of Russian people in Donbass, who waited

[yuriy55]

Quote: Pavel Kosse

It was very important that the President signed these laws.

And do you know that EBN could have returned Crimea and the regions transferred to Ukraine when Ukraine left the USSR? But he didn't... He wanted to report to Washington about the completed task...
And the referendum on preserving the USSR was ignored in favor of the nationalists, who began to kill and rob the Russian population living in the union republics...
* * *
And I lived in Siberia and was very surprised that salaries in Siberia became lower than in Moscow, but prices remained high...

[PavelKosse]

Unfortunately, I know. And the lawlessness that was happening in the union republics exceeds what was under Stalin. And that is why the attacks of neo-liberals again and again. To cover up their sins with even greater (from their point of view) "atrocities". Stalin took over the country on horseback, and handed it over to his descendants with rocket engines and a nuclear reactor (not my words. This is how Churchill "marked" himself at his address). EBN, handed over the country after 9 years of rule with a completely ruined economy, a multi-billion dollar debt and hot spots (Dagestan, Chechnya), and thousands of Russian people who suddenly found themselves abroad

[FoBoss_VM]

Can you please tell me more about your outstanding achievements? I'm really interested in finding out.... Just write the truth, facts.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

at least the fact that Russia still exists as a whole country, and not one and a half to two dozen independent states.
People have forgotten how in the 90s everyone was planning to split into independent republics, some even printed their own currency, like the Ural franc of Yekaterinburg for the Ural Republic (this is the name of an independent country, not a republic within the Russian Federation).
They also forgot about how Tatarstan wanted to separate? And no one really heard about the Siberian Republic only because they started creating it right before Putin came to power.
By the way, it was Putin's arrival that squeezed Khodork, Gus and BAB out of the country. Do you remember who they were and what place they occupied in the country? And most importantly, what did they do besides stealing? Well, for example, financing militants and pressuring the authorities so that the militants would inflict maximum damage. Yes, a whole article is needed to list what he did

[Jager]

Cleared the field of EBN clerks and put the "Ozero" cooperative in place?

[Pavel Kislyakov]

Unfortunately, he didn’t clean it up, just as Stalin didn’t clean up the Trotskyists.
They are the ones who are doing the dirty work because they were planted by the deep state and you can't just get rid of them. But things have moved, the "overseer" of Russia and the one who is protecting a bunch of bureaucratic rottenness has been removed (Chubais), they have also removed old man Baturin (Luzhkov), who controls the western part of the Russian Federation, but they haven't removed the Yeltsin clan and Shoigu, they control the central and eastern part of Russia, but they were really squeezed after the failure of the coup d'etat, Shoigu was kept locked up for 2 weeks, deprived of opportunities, but there was still a lot of rottenness, but because everything has moved, the process has started, and in 5 years we will see a completely different Russia

[Hiller]

I have no doubt that the renaming of the city will be supported by the people. And from heaven, those who "gave up their lives" in this gigantic battle - even more so.

[Vladimir Vladimirovich Vorontsov]

❝ And from heaven, “those who laid down their lives” in this gigantic battle - even more so ❞ —

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

there is another city that needs to get its name back

[Hiller]

Personally, I am FOR. This issue needs to be brought up for public discussion. Especially since there is the Leningrad Region, but no city of Leningrad. Some kind of surrealism...

[esso]

Because the city was founded not by some Lenin, but by Peter the Great, that's why

[kromer]

Quote: Esso

Because the city was founded not by some Lenin, but by Peter the Great, that's why

But it was not named in honor of Peter the Great.

[esso]

Quote from kromer

Quote: Esso

Because the city was founded not by some Lenin, but by Peter the Great, that's why

But it was not named in honor of Peter the Great.

And not in honor of Lenin, the name changed, but Peter 1 appears there, It was necessary to wash away the imperial history and the name Leningrad

[kromer]

Quote: Esso

but Peter 1 appears there

The name "Saint Petersburg" comes from the name of Saint Peter, the patron saint of the founding Tsar Peter I. It appears only in this sense.

[esso]

Saint Petersburg was founded in 1703 on the initiative of Emperor Peter I. The first stone was laid on Hare Island, and it was from here that the new city began to grow. Saint Petersburg got its name from the Peter and Paul Fortress, the first building of the city that appeared on the Neva River during the Northern War. And about the saint, there is a beautiful Legend and nothing more. There is Peter I and his orders, and then

[kromer]

Quote: Esso

Saint Petersburg got its name from the Peter and Paul Fortress

Who do you think the Peter and Paul Fortress was named after?

[kromer]

Quote: Esso

And there is a beautiful legend about the saint.

SAINT
Sankt - abbreviation St. - saint.
Dictionary of foreign words included in the Russian language.- Pavlenkov F., 1907.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

You'll be surprised, but the name has nothing to do with Peter the Great.

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

You'll be surprised, but the name has nothing to do with Peter the Great.

В August 1914 the city of Saint Petersburg was renamed Petrograd - just in honor of the founder of the city, Peter the Great.
The city of Petrograd was renamed Leningrad January 26, 1924...
There are also posters from the time of the Civil War of 1918-21.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: cat Rusich

In August 1914, the city of St. Petersburg was renamed Petrograd - in honor of the city's founder, Peter the Great.

seriously?!

[cat Rusich]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Quote: cat Rusich

In August 1914, the city of St. Petersburg was renamed Petrograd - in honor of the city's founder, Peter the Great.

seriously?!

At least read Wikipedia...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

it's hard to come up with a greater stupidity - the renaming, or rather the replacement of the German "burg" with the Russian "grad" was in connection with the war and patriotic sentiments in the country, and not with the name of Peter the Great, if you don't know, then Wagner was excluded from the repertoire at the Mariinsky
so no need to invent nonsense, the city was named in honor of the Apostle Peter, not Peter I
p.s. it is advisable to learn history not from wiki

[esso]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it's hard to come up with a greater stupidity - the renaming, or rather the replacement of the German "burg" with the Russian "grad" was in connection with the war and patriotic sentiments in the country, and not with the name of Peter the Great, if you don't know, then Wagner was excluded from the repertoire at the Mariinsky
so no need to invent nonsense, the city was named in honor of the Apostle Peter, not Peter I
p.s. it is advisable to learn history not from wiki

Prove it, words are not enough, otherwise maybe it was not an apostle, but maybe the magician Peter....

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

What exactly can I prove to you that the city was named in honor of the apostle?!
By the way, who is a "volkh"?

[kromer]

Quote: cat Rusich

At least read Wikipedia...

Type in the Wikipedia search engine: Bucha (city). And enjoy the text.

[cat Rusich]

Quote from kromer

Quote: cat Rusich

At least read Wikipedia...

Type in the Wikipedia search engine: Bucha (city). And enjoy the text.

Search engine "Yandex" neural network - gives the same result for Petrograd, based on Wikipedia - then what is the argument about? - almost everywhere on the Internet they write that by changing the name in 1914 to Petrograd - the meaning of the name also changed Apostle Peter on Emperor Peter 1 - could be called City of St. Peter or Saint Petrograd - but the prefix "saint" was removed - which means "birthday boy" also changed.
There is a garden Ekaterinburg - named after the wife of Peter I - Catherine I, so its name was changed only in 1924g to Sverdlovsk - WWI patriotism did not reach Yekaterinburg...
Orenburg - was Chkalovsky 1938 to 1957, but the city's name was returned during the Soviet era.

[kromer]

Quote: cat Rusich

could have been called the City of Saint Peter or Saint Petrograd - but the prefix "saint" was removed

Maybe, but not a fact. In the name of the Peter and Paul Fortress or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky there is no prefix holy apostles, but the names are in their honor. There is a lot of alternative history now and it is not possible to determine which Peter in the name Petrograd.

Quote: cat Rusich

Orenburg was Chkalovsk from 1938 to 1957

Chkalov - to be precise.

[esso]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Quote: cat Rusich

In August 1914, the city of St. Petersburg was renamed Petrograd - in honor of the city's founder, Peter the Great.

seriously?!

My dear, you should get treatment, otherwise you will fall in the level of history below the Banderites...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Esso

My dear, you should get treatment, otherwise you will fall in the level of history below the Banderites...

Well, you don't know her at all
the city was named in honor of the apostle peter and in 14 the german "burg" was replaced by the russian "grad" in connection with the famous events and the mass patriotic upsurge in the country

[esso]

Quote: cat Rusich

»

Rather, it was replaced in 1914 due to the audible German notes in the name, they decided Petrograd was better. In 1924 due to Lenin's death.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Esso

They decided that Petrograd was better.

But it really is better.
More coherent, perhaps, "Petrograd", "Novgorod", "Moskov who is a complete degenerate and changed his gender to become Moscow".

[esso]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

You'll be surprised, but the name has nothing to do with Peter the Great.

You never cease to amaze me, you know more than others, and everyone around you is a fool. I am more and more surprised...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

you will be surprised again, but I did not speak about everyone, I spoke about you personally, learn history not from Wikipedia

[Pavel Kislyakov]

and I'm against it, because I'm against the form. and there's no point in immortalizing his name.
but Stalin really did a lot for the country, his name can be immortalized. and Blank and Bronstein should suffer the fate of Herostratus, only not in a comic form but in a real one.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Tell me, which city survived the siege!

[Pavel Kislyakov]

There are a lot of fortresses in the world that did not surrender after being surrounded by enemy troops.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Only a complete idiot can compare Leningrad to a "heap"

[Pavel Kislyakov]

Only a complete idiot doesn't know that the word "pile" also means "a lot."
although if he is a complete migrant then yes, for them Russian language is difficult

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Cliveden

after it became clear what horrors were associated with Stalin.

Agree
But Stalingrad is a symbol
In this case, the historical name must be returned.

[PavelKosse]

There are no fewer horrors associated with Gorbachev and Yeltsin. Look at the statistics on how the population of the Russian Federation has decreased since 1991. It's enough for several world wars.

[Cliveden]

Are you serious? I have no sympathy for either Gorbachev or Yeltsin. But I don't know if they shot their own citizens.
The population decline is most likely due to economic and cultural reasons!

[PavelKosse]

and it turned out that it was not necessary to shoot them.. You can just starve them to death. Oh, by the way, hundreds and thousands of Russians abandoned in the former "union" republics. Tajikistan should be mentioned separately. And the two Chechen wars there too. Gorbachev's draining of Eastern Europe. Withdrawal of troops, including from defeated Germany. And now the Germans will tell us how we can celebrate our victory over them, and how we cannot. (By the way, the Americans still have not left Germany or Japan). Nothing was done to bind the West to obligations on non-proliferation of NATO to our borders. And the Cold War is also a result of the thoughtless foreign policy of Gorbachev and Yeltsin. The Soviet Union was effectively declared the losing side in the Cold War. And Russia is still paying for this defeat. As for Stalin's repressions, there is definitely no talk of 2 million. Not a single source confirms this. But the country that had survived the civil war was in a situation where not all of the population unequivocally supported the new government. There were "excesses". It is worth recognizing that it was the White movement that unleashed the civil war and foreign intervention in Russia, not wanting to accept the new government (and in fact, to give up its privileges), condemning the country to enormous human and material losses. It is worth noting, however, that the leadership of the late USSR, having the negative experience of the civil war at the beginning of the last century, did not fight for power, exposing the country to the danger of a new war. At the same time, the liberals did everything themselves, destroying the economy, stealing resources, surrendering the interests of the state and condemning the country to new wars.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

I didn't rape, I held
I am touched by the neatness, the marked one wanted to be good and not get his hands dirty, we all see the result

[Pavel Kislyakov]

the only difference is that they died of old age and did not die young, they simply did not give birth to as many children as needed to cover the population loss. How would you like it if your children died young in the war or died old and simply gave birth to one grandchild instead of three?

[esso]

Quote: Krasnodar

Quote: Cliveden

after it became clear what horrors were associated with Stalin.

Agree
But Stalingrad is a symbol
In this case, the historical name must be returned.

The City residents are mostly against it. It is not necessary, there are more important tasks. Renaming will have to be done in Novorossiya anyway, a lot of money goes there....

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Esso

No need, there are more important tasks.

I wouldn't say that, over time, it is tourism for all those interested in WWII, and there are many of them in the world.

[Alexander K]

When life is based on symbols, everything is lost. Volgograd residents do not support.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Alexander K

When life is based on symbols

I wrote about the practical meaning above.

[Good Evil]

Quote: Krasnodar

In this case, the historical name must be returned.

Historical name - Tsaritsyn!
Maybe it's time to stop playing games with renaming everything and everyone according to the "current party line"? Maybe it's time to stop mocking our own history?
My father fought in Stalingrad. The great Battle of Stalingrad will forever remain in history and in people's memories. But the city must return to the name given to it at birth - Tsaritsyn.

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Good evil

Tsaritsyn!

He entered world history under a different name.

Quote: Good evil

Maybe it's time to stop playing games with renaming everything and everyone according to the "current party line"?

I was always for it, because it's tourism.

Quote: Good evil

My father fought in Stalingrad.

I have a grandfather's brother

Quote: Good evil

But the city needs to return to the name given to it at birth - Tsaritsyn.

Meaning?

[PavelKosse]

Historical name - Tsaritsyn!
/////
Tsaritsyn)

[Good Evil]

Quote: Pavel Kosse

Tsaritsyn)

I agree!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

what horrors are associated with Stalin.

and what horrors are associated with Stalin, did they defeat the Nazis?!!!!
Is this horrible for you?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

banned on the internet?!

In England, a street in the city of Colchester (Essex County) was named Stalin Road in honor of I. V. Stalin in 1948. In 2009, the majority of residents of this street voted to keep its name. There is also a Stalin Avenue in the city of Chatham (Kent County).

[Motorist]

Quote: Cliveden

The Soviet Union, that is, the people, helped defeat Nazi Germany

Did you help the French and the Danes with the Dutch and other Swedes?

Quote: Cliveden

I am talking about almost 20 million Soviet citizens who died during Stalin's rule, excluding World War II.

Don't bring your propaganda (or rather, lies) here - it won't be appreciated.

[PavelKosse]

I am talking about almost 20 million Soviet citizens who died during Stalin's rule, excluding World War II.
/////
Where do you get such statistics? If you are referring to "Memorial", then it is not worth it. Even under the current "semi-liberal" government - this is a foreign agent

[Cliveden]

After Stalin's death, the archives were opened and the atrocities became public knowledge. Soviet leaders made it all public. Every Soviet family has victims to mourn... but of course, it was all a mistake and not so bad.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

After Stalin's death, the archives were opened and the atrocities became public knowledge.

let's not tell stories about archives and other things, otherwise you'll end up in a puddle

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

An ostrich or monkey that closes its eyes, mouth and ears.

when you learn to write under your own name, you will be calling someone a monkey
now on topic, provide links to documents, while you excuse me don't spout nonsense

[PavelKosse]

In every Soviet family there are victims who need to be mourned...
/////
In mine, fortunately, there are no repressed people, and in many families of my friends and acquaintances there are no repressed people either. It is easier to name those where there were such people.
For example, my great-aunt's husband was taken away in 37, that's just one case that I know about.
One of our acquaintances (a family friend) still complains that her father, a Red Army officer, was kicked out of the military academy after the war. For (in general terms) challenging the postulate that the commander is always right. But the charter states that the commanders' orders are not discussed, but executed. This family is one of the former, however. That is, the man was able, already under the new government, to become a career military man (before the revolution, this was a privilege of the upper classes). And all he did was expel him from the academy and send him back to the troops. If he hadn't blabbed, which is not becoming for a military man, he might have become a general.
That is, the scale of the repressions is clearly not comparable with the 20 million (according to new data, 27 million) who died in the Great Patriotic War. And what was happening in the archives in the late 80s is clear. They threw it at us, including the Katyn massacre. What's surprising about that?

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Cliveden

I'm talking about almost 20 million Soviet citizens who died during Stalin's rule, excluding World War II.

Unproven figure

[Cliveden]

Okay, I'll accommodate you. There were only 10 million victims... or only 5 million. This is, of course, excusable and less serious for the victims and their families.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

This is, of course, forgivable and less serious for the victims and their families.

once again who and for what reasons, I'm already tired of this nonsense

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

honey, watch the broom
so far you have shown yourself to be a windbag who is unable to prove his point, and a cowardly windbag at that

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Cliveden

There were only 10 million victims... or only 5 million. This is, of course, excusable and less serious for the victims and their families.

Which victims exactly?

[PavelKosse]

Now they'll start quoting "The Gulag Archipelago" too.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

I am talking about the nearly 20 million Soviet citizens who died during Stalin's rule.

There is a huge difference between those who died during and those who died as a result of the rule

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

I am talking about the nearly 20 million Soviet citizens who died during Stalin's rule.

Can you describe who, when and for what reasons?!

[Cliveden]

Oh, this is a classic: casting doubt on another person simply by asking for written evidence without backing up your own claims.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

yes you are right, this is a classic, you are trying to prove it, you are citing facts
So far you haven't been able to come up with anything other than nonsense

[Good Evil]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Can you describe who, when and for what reasons?!

By name?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

A person should be judged by all his actions, and not just by the (few) good ones.

let's play a game
You are the head of state, the country is on the eve of war, you need to put new factories into operation, but to do this you may have to force 10-20 thousand into inhuman conditions, some of them will die, but if you don’t do this, 2-3 million will die during the war, your choice?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

once again, for those in the tank
write down when, how much, for what reason, unable to do this, don't talk nonsense

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Cliveden

Look for yourself, the archives are open.

that is, you stupidly showed that you don’t know the topic except for the liberal screams

Quote: Cliveden

I'm sitting here in 25 degrees with a 145 euro bottle of Tignanollo Chianti and I don't want to waste my life on this Stalin trying to convince people who can't be convinced.

honey, you also have a lot of complexes

Quote: Cliveden

chin chin

I would answer, but the admin will ban me

[PavelKosse]

It is noteworthy that only two leaders of the country publicly exposed Stalin's repressions - the "alternatively gifted" Khrushchev and Gorbachev. The rest somehow didn't bother. As for these two:
Khrushchev brought the country to workers' protests (Shakhty shooting). The controversial idea of ​​growing corn everywhere undermined agriculture. Virgin lands did not save either. Given that Khrushchev personally compiled lists for repression when he headed the Moscow city committee of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks). It is a known fact that Stalin even tried to reason with him in this area. That's how it is..)
Gorbachev followed the West's lead. Someone benefited from causing an ideological split in society, and the topic of "repressions" resurfaced. By the way, under Brezhnev, no one peddled the topic of Stalin's repressions. The fact that Putin is ready to rename Volgograd to Stalingrad (the airport has already been renamed) once again emphasizes that he has a slightly different vision of the situation than the liberals. So, it is possible that the mausoleum will definitely not be removed from Red Square. Rather, they will stop draping it

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Only a court can name a criminal
Was there a trial?

[Alexander K]

The Nazis were defeated by the people. Stalin never fired a single shot.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander K

The Nazis were defeated by the people.

Why didn't the People defeat the liberals in 91?
maybe it is important who is at the head of the people?

[Alexander K]

Because the fucking communists only thought about preserving their power. If you like communism, go to North Korea or Cuba. These are ideal communist countries. But you like it better in Russia, and it is just a model of liberalism. So don't spit in the well.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Do you remember when we drank brotherhood together?!
now on topic you are a nice person you can write nasty things on the internet thanks to those same communists

[Alexander K]

These same communists, I remind you, forbade even having typewriters. And cell phone service with permission. The Soviet Union collapsed because of a fatal number of inadequate prohibitions. And the communists lost because of this. There was nothing good from the communists. Absolutely nothing. Only propaganda and hatred (covered up by "good intentions")

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander K

These same communists, let me remind you, forbade even having typewriters.

yeah, rare nonsense

Quote: Alexander K

And cellular communications with permission.

and the internet was by coupons

Quote: Alexander K

There was nothing good from the communists. Absolutely nothing. Only propaganda and hatred (covered up by "good intentions")

Are you blue bloods?!!
It's a shame that there is no way to spank anyone in the stables?

[Alexander K]

What nonsense??? Typewriters had to be registered with the KGB and it was not a permission to appear. And there they decided whether it was possible or not. Private individuals were not allowed to have a typewriter. It seems that you have a completely selective memory.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alexander K

Typewriters had to be registered with the KGB

So you're already getting out of it?!

Quote: Alexander K

And there they decided whether it was possible or not. Private individuals were not allowed to have a typewriter.

That's probably why deer were sold in stores, excuse me, how old are you?

Quote: Alexander K

It seems you have a very selective memory.

no, just normal

[Alexander K]

Weapons are also sold in stores. There is even a price tag. But this does not mean that anyone can come and buy.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

stop trying to get out of it, the ban, as you claimed, and the regulations are two very different things
You lied, either out of ignorance or on purpose, I can't say, but the fact remains a fact
How old are you?

[Alexander K]

I also found a typewriter at my grandmother's, which was given to her upon signature. With all the accompanying documents. And my grandmother was not a small person in her ministry.
Typewriters were in the hands of FEW people and ONLY for a specific job.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

how old are you?
Are you able to answer a direct question directly?!

Quote: Alexander K

which was given to her upon signature.

judging by everything, you are a nice person and don't know anything about it at all, they could have given it out at work for work-related reasons and then yes, under signature, but then you could have bought it, another question is what for

[PavelKosse]

But he was no longer needed as head of state. But he had to be in the civil war. Tsaritsyn Front (and therefore Stalingrad). Southwestern Front

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and what horrors are associated with Stalin, did they defeat the Nazis?!!!!
Is this horrible for you?

I think for him, yes, it’s terrible, because “they should have been drinking Bavarian beer” (by the way, who the hell knows who would have left Bavarian beer in the gas chamber)...
But most likely he is talking about Khrushchev's bastard who, trying to clear the field for himself, rushed to throw shit at his predecessor.

[Anglorussian]

Metro station in the 19th district of Paris. The Battle of Stalingrad Square is also there.

[RostislavPushkarevVladimirovich]

How it became clear what horrors were associated with Stalin.

For the bourgeoisie, thieves, embezzlers, etc., yes. For the majority of society, the working class, no.

[RostislavPushkarevVladimirovich]

You know, my grandfather was also sent to Siberia by mistake. And my grandparents, both on my mother's side and on my father's side, fought in the Great Patriotic War.
Yes, there were cases when an innocent person was sent by mistake or denunciation. But this is not a reason to be embittered. In the overall picture, Stalin ruled very effectively and competently. And he left a great legacy that is still used today.

[Cliveden]

Millions of erroneous cases... Stalin personally signed the execution lists!

[Whose Whose]

In Georgia, I was in the State Stalin Museum on Stalin Avenue. And this did not stop the Georgians from striving to join NATO and the EU. The Chinese also manage to have a balanced attitude towards their Mao. So why shouldn't Russia start clearing Stalin's name from the dirt and falsifications of Khrushchev and Yeltsin, with which they tried to justify their own crimes, cut millions to real official figures, and at the same time pay tribute to the leader who managed to organize the country for the Great Victory!

[Napayz]

... snacking on babies, right?

[Pavel Kislyakov]

and now turn on your "mosk" and imagine the amount of paper with a list where there are at least 5 million names and imagine how much you will study such lists, and I only described the list of names, but in your opinion he should have personally read their criminal cases. How many years will you need to read 20 million criminal cases? And Stalin had other work besides not only reading but also checking with independent commissions and organizations that the cases were conducted correctly and there were no mistakes.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

Hitler exterminated all the Jews, not each one individually. And he didn't care whether he was guilty of something or not. Moreover, he didn't care at all who would do it and how.
P.S. I don’t believe in gas chambers, executions, death from hunger and overwork, from a bunch of diseases and other reasons, yes, but no, no, gas chambers, because this is a fucking stupid idea and the Germans, even being Nazis, are far from stupid.

[Pavel Kislyakov]

and if i remember correctly, hitler did not personally sign the lists of jews to be exterminated in concentration camps

[PavelKosse]

There weren't even close to millions there. We'd already had our fill of your tales in the late 80s and 90s.
By the way, the DPR leadership decided that the capital of the republic, the hero city of Donetsk, would bear its historical name of Stalino for two days a year. Why do you think people decided that?
Because you slept through those 20 years after the 90s. And the country is different now. Wake up)

[Anglorussian]

Billions. And Stalin personally shot them all.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Cliveden

Stalin personally signed the execution lists!

Uh-huh, uh-huh.
The head of state has no business sitting like YagamiLight and writing execution lists.
Well, nonsense.
No, well, if some Zhukov/Kurchatov/Kaganovich had been shot, they probably would have reported it, but the rest is either a formality with one signature for everything, or a complete lie.
Well, "shot down from the bottom" is also questionable.
Liberals have been doing shit for a long time now, getting drunk and then yelling that it's "too bad".
Since 2022, Shvainokarasi have been squealing “for what?”
In both cases it is clear why, it is just that hypocritical pigs use pity for protection.

Shake up this whole gang of "repressed" people - you'll find out that they are complete bastards and were in prison for a reason. (And then they were amnestied in droves (yes, even the Banderites, Khrushchev's wife was one of them by the way))

[Good Evil]

Quote: Rostislav Pushkarev Vladimirovich

Yes, there were cases where an innocent person was sent by mistake or denunciation.

Tupolev, Petlyakov, Myasishchev, Korolev... All by mistake!

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Rostislav Pushkarev Vladimirovich

For the majority of society, the working class, no.

Dispossessed peasants, scientists who worked from prison, soldiers who were released from prison during the war, like Rokossovsky, etc.
And Stalin himself, when the country, largely due to his fault, lay in ruins, did not deny himself anything - in the post-war period he woke up after midday, in the evenings he organized sabantuys until the morning. Read more about him. And the dacha in Abkhazia with Bidet in the post-war period is also an indicator

[PavelKosse]

Stalin had a dozen smoking pipes as personal property - gifts from the leaders of the allied states. There were a couple of jackets (summer and winter). When it was time to bury someone, there were no decent new boots in the wardrobe. There were definitely no foreign billion-dollar accounts in foreign currency. He woke up at noon, yes. But he worked until late at night, often until the morning. He could call any regional committee, any plant manager. And everyone was there. They knew that the leader could call. But there was order in the country

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Pavel Kosse

Stalin's personal property included a dozen smoking pipes - gifts from the leaders of the allied states. There were a couple of jackets (summer and winter). When it was time to bury him, there were no decent new shoes in the wardrobe

Because everything was given to order))
Why the hell did he need personal property when Stalin's state train was delivered with billionaire luxury and comfort, and his spare bunker in Kuibyshev, in my opinion, was an exact copy-paste of his office in Moscow?

Quote: Pavel Kosse

But he worked until late at night, often until the morning.

There were feasts until the morning

Quote: Pavel Kosse

But there was order in the country

During the war and very relative, judging by its initial period
And with the projects everything was better
Which were taken under personal control

[Anglorussian]

There was no luxury in Stalin's train (it is in a museum in Georgia)

[Krasnodar]

Quote: Anglorussian

There was no luxury in Stalin's train (it is in a museum in Georgia)

Bathroom, toilet and leather sofa in the compartment))

[Whose Whose]

In Paris I saw the metro station "Stalingrad". It is located on the square of the same name.

[Comrade Beria]

Looking bad.
In Paris there is a square, a boulevard and a metro station called "Stalingrad".
In Nice - Boulevard de Stalingrad.
In Lyon there is the antique market "Stalingrad".
In Brussels - Avenue Stalingrad and the Floris Stalingrad Hotel.
In Bologna, it is the central street of the city.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Cliveden

I have not found a single example in Europe where streets or squares are still named after Stalingrad

Badly searched:

Stalingrad is a station of the Paris Metro on the border of the 10th and 19th arrondissements of Paris at the intersection of lines 2, 5 and 7. It is located on Stalingrad Square, which was named in honor of the Battle of Stalingrad

Although the Parisian metro itself, compared to the Moscow one, is a real cesspool.

[Gregory Charnota]

Well, I will definitely go to Stalingrad

[Lech from Android.]

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he considers it a good idea to return the name Stalingrad to the city of Volgograd.

I'm all for it...and it would be good to do it on Victory Day over Nazi Germany.

I haven't found a single example in Europe.

Today's Europe is not our authority.
She imposed sanctions against us and helps the Nazis of Ukraine...you are looking in the wrong place.

[Hitriy Zhuk]

Quote: Lech from Android.

Today's Europe is not our authority.
She imposed sanctions against us and helps the Nazis of Ukraine...you are looking in the wrong place.

!00% correct.
But in France, which is again on the side of the Nazis and against us - there is, for example, the Stalingrad metro.
And here we have a mausoleum (yes, now there is only Lenin there, but that’s not the point, it’s history and almost a “participant in the events” (well, they did throw banners there)) that is bashfully draped, the city has been renamed.
It seems paradoxical.

[Million]

Then we need to hurry up with the renaming, just in time for the anniversary of the Victory.

[foxes]

The idea is good, but it looks very much like a banal anti-crisis against the backdrop of the fuss with Urina and Zaporizhzhya NPP.

[Was mammoth]

Two questions.
Is Volgograd worthy of bearing the name Stalingrad?
Were the residents of Volgograd asked? Or "in the opinion of the workers"?
P.S. My father fought there, became a communist and an officer. It didn't work out, he wanted to, but never visited during his life. The children are planning to this year. There are many questions. For example, it is practically difficult to drive up to the monument to the five tankmen. Although it is not far from the highway.

[yuriy55]

Putin: Renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is a good and logical idea

Let's hold a referendum on this issue and on the issue of returning the state flag of the USSR.

[Viktor Sergeev]

And who's stopping you from holding a referendum, big mouth? That's exactly what we don't need a red flag for.

[yuriy55]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Who's stopping you from holding a referendum, big mouth?

Constitution of the Russian Federation:

Article 23. Appointment of a referendum
1. The referendum is called by the President of the Russian Federation...

A long tongue can only hurt its owner's neck.

[Viktor Sergeev]

Now open the law on referendum and you will see that any person in the Russian Federation can take actions aimed at holding a referendum. The President only issues a Decree on holding a referendum. So, go ahead and go.

[Come in large numbers]

Our leader's favorite trick. Showing off. Well, there are no other troubles and problems in the country than renaming...

[Viktor Sergeev]

Problems are being solved. But people like you just want to say something bad. Liberal?

[Alexander X]

I think this is a reasonable proposal.

[Archer]

+ 1
I support, and the flag is red

[nik-mazur]

Quote: Archer

and the flag is red

With the imperial eagle. And the corresponding coat of arms.

[Old Horseradish]

Agitprop has issued another product. Next, the city on the Neva is Leningrad. And so on down the list. The invasion of migrants, the liquidation of pensions and much more is essentially insignificant. The main thing is to start changing names.

[fsvlad]

.. Putin stressed that the name Stalingrad is inextricably linked with the Victory

And the Mausoleum is one of the main symbols of Victory. However, this does not prevent it from being covered with plywood on May 20 for 9 years.

[nik-mazur]

Quote: fsvlad

And the Mausoleum is one of the main symbols of Victory

What does the crypt containing Lenin, who died in 1924, have to do with Victory?

[Viktor Sergeev]

I agree, but it's up to the residents to decide.

[yuriy55]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

I agree, but it's up to the residents to decide.

And when did our residents decide anything? Maybe when they threw out the "Against all" column from the ballots? Or when they voted for three days?
Maybe they made a decision on the minimum wage or housing and communal services tariffs?
You are not just an irrepressible liberal, but some kind of representative of United Russia...

[Viktor Sergeev]

How ridiculous you are, so-called liberals. Citizens decide when they go to the polls. The majority chose United Russia, the overwhelming majority chose Putin, and you can only whine and moan while others do it. Remember, such a form of government as a referendum is considered the worst, so it is practically never used anywhere.

[yuriy55]

Quote: Victor Sergeev

Remember, this type of government, a referendum, is considered the worst, and therefore is practically never used.

Remember, you are invincible to them!
A referendum is not a form of government, but a form of expression of the will of citizens, just like elections.
And the overwhelming majority is 90 percent or more. And there is also a "simple majority" (50% + 1 vote); "so-so majority" (up to 55%); "oh and a majority" (up to 60%); "rigged majority" (from 67 to 146%); and "majority without any fish" (when out of 150 million people, clowns, court jesters and daughters of former bosses are appointed as competitors, and real opponents are subject to criminal cases or are simply not allowed to participate in the elections)...
As for whining and moaning - this is for your party of crooks and thieves. You see everything in a distorted light, you have brought the country to a state in which reforms and laws can no longer change anything for the better.
It is you who have developed animal instincts in society and defined the boundaries of boundless gluttony and beggarly decency. It is you who are asked questions like: "Who are you working for?" and "Whose life have you made better?"

[Crete 25]

The victims of Stalin's repressions and their relatives would hardly have considered this idea good or logical.

[sidorov]

Quote from Kreta25

The victims of Stalin's repressions and their relatives would hardly have considered this idea good or logical.

Just curious, but the hero of the novel by A. Dumas "The Count of Monte Cristo" was sitting innocent and on a political charge - in the Chateau d'If.

So who was he considered to be? A victim of criminals who are enemies of the law and the state, or also a "victim of the regime"?

[Crete 25]

This would be worth asking the participants of the Nuremberg Trials from the USSR side.
At Mikhail Petrovich Devyatayev's.
At Sergei Pavlovich Korolev's.
And this is just what I remembered off the top of my head.

[75 Sergey]

. Victims of Stalin's repressions

You forgot to add - imaginary, also "victims" of the Criminal Code!

[Crete 25]

The same as the victims of the Holodomor?

[75 Sergey]

Right on target, they are the most

[sidorov]

Good move. They might not rename it. Especially since the counting will be done as always. And it is always what it should be.
This is how we find out what the management wanted. What we ourselves wanted - we ourselves were never interested.

[75 Sergey]

And revive the Stalingrad Tractor Plant!

[nikolaki6890]

Well, we know these VTsIOMs, they will write as they "should"

[75 Sergey]

The revival of Socialist symbols will not bring back Soviet power; that is not why they liquidated it.

[AlxR Nevsky]

The poorest city with a population of over a million (that's what Muscovites call it). It is in Volgograd that the tallest monument to Lenin, a real person, stands (near the entrance to the Lenin Canal). And it is this area where the monument is erected that is considered the poorest of all the cities with a population of over a million in Russia (that's a fact). But the construction of this canal is one of the greatest achievements of the USSR, because they tried to build it about 20 times over 400 years (there is devastation and dirt around the monument...). And there are disputes about renaming it (there is no money to maintain the monument, while Moscow and St. Petersburg are living the high life).

[AlxR Nevsky]

Several attempts were made to build the Volga-Don Canal, but none of the projects were realized.

Some of the attempts:

1569 - Turkish Sultan Selim II organized an expedition to build a canal, but the project failed.
1697 - During the reign of Peter I, a new stage of attempts to build a canal between the tributaries of the Volga and Don began. The work was led by foreign engineers, but due to the outbreak of the Northern War and the resulting financial problems, the project had to be abandoned.
Before the 1917 revolution, Russian engineers developed over 30 projects designed to connect the Volga with the Don, but none were implemented.
1920 - During the Soviet era, the government decided to build a canal, but the project was not completed until the 30s. The Great Patriotic War prevented the construction plan from being implemented.
1948 – the beginning of construction of the Volga-Don Canal, which was completed in 1952.
The canal connected five seas, and the city had the status of a port of five seas, but this status was also stolen.

[AlxR Nevsky]

According to one of the authors, the Volgograd region had a harder time emerging from the crisis of the 1990s than other regions, since the economy and the well-being of the population largely depended on private business.
Bankruptcy of large enterprises. The basis of the Volgograd economy (almost 70%) is made up of large enterprises created in Soviet times, which were destroyed by the new government.
Loss of public trust in the state. State structures essentially abandoned the population, leaving it to cope with difficulties on its own. Volgograd has been trying to survive in Russia for the last 30 years (and there was no swamp there, people endured), but no one noticed. People were saved by their dachas (now dacha cooperatives are burning in a strange way).

[AlxR Nevsky]

The fact that they tried to destroy Volgograd after the collapse of the USSR is a fact that cannot be disputed. That is why people react so violently to the topic of renaming Volgograd, looking at the tallest monument to Lenin in the world, which is also the tallest monument to a real person in the world. (VV never visited it in Volgograd).

[speed4fun]

I am not Russian... I am writing from Europe. I am not a follower of Putin; he supported the liberals... but I understand that if the series of presidents continued according to the "Gorbachev-Yeltsin" principle, it would be worse. In the West, Putin is considered a strong leader.
There is not a single person in Russia today who is not a liberal; defends all of Russia (patriot) and its industry; has a social concept of society; is not influenced by the West; is not an oligarch or a mafioso? Does this person exist to be the president of Russia? Can anyone give me a name?
I greet you warmly.

[Iris]

There are such people. And there are many of them. Or do you think that DAM was the best of the best????

[speed4fun]

Excuse me! I don't know who or what "DAM" is. I would like to know if there is a replacement for "Putin" who enjoys the support of the people. I know the main politicians: Peskov, Lavrov, Medvedev... but I don't know a possible successor... a person who is trusted by the people... someone who is not a liberal, who supports Russian industry, who is not an oligarch or a mafioso. There is such a person in Russia. Thank you for your patience. Greetings.

[solar]

Does this man exist to be the president of Russia?

Does not exist and cannot exist. As soon as this person starts gaining popularity, something will definitely happen to him. Either a grenade will explode on the plane, or it will turn out that he is a criminal or something else.

[speed4fun]

Thank you! I understand what you are talking about... this happens in our Europe too... it is done more subtly, but it is done... they have non-firing weapons for this.
Without wishing to offend you, I don't think the man who was blown up in the plane would have been a good president for Russia... he was a very low-quality image (I don't know if that's the right translation). Again, my apologies. Have a nice day.

[solar]

And it's not about a specific person, but about the system of sterilization of the space around itself. There are such plants, when they grow, they secrete toxins that kill all living things around them - no matter good or bad, the main thing is a potential competitor.

[speed4fun]

I understand what you are saying. The USSR and Russia have always faced and continue to face interference and threats from the US, the globalist liberal alliance... so despite all the negative associations with Putin... what I think is positive is Putin's strong mentality... under Yeltsin Russia will no longer exist (this is still the Western plan). We have a saying in Spain: "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know." Greetings.

[Vladimir-TTT]

We need to start with the liquidation of the Yeltsin Center. It was created with Putin's assistance - he should liquidate it.
But Volgograd-Stalingrad is not his level. He can return Leningrad's name. He was born in Leningrad. So many soldiers and civilians died for Leningrad in the Great Patriotic War. It was Leningrad (not St. Petersburg) that Hitler tried to destroy. So Vladimir Vladimirovich should mind his own business.

[26_Sergey_26]

Let's rename Russia to USSR?
Stalingrad is not our merit.
Stalingrad is a monument to the unbending will of the Soviet Union.
There is no need to latch onto the exploits of another state. We screwed up this state, but we are proud of the achievements of our grandfathers.
Our grandfathers would reproach us for the carelessness that we allow ourselves in relation to all aspects of life and the existence of our state.

[ergh081]

What's wrong with Volgograd? Isn't the name heroic? I disagree: it's not the name or the title that makes a city or a person a hero, but the person, the people who have demonstrated their qualities, that make a city a hero. What does Stalin have to do with it? Was it under Stalin that the Germans reached Stalingrad? Or did I lie about something? How is it that the enemy reached the Volga, who is to blame for this? Or maybe this was a strategic mistake by Stalin himself, who decided to keep reserves near Moscow during the summer campaign of 1942? Is something wrong? I think this: the leaders who renamed the city Volgograd were no dumber than you and me, and they actually survived this grand tragedy and battle (and not us), and therefore we, their descendants, have no reason to poke our noses into this issue (sorry for the pun). We live, we work, there is something to do

[Iris]

Uh-huh. Do you need me to remind you about Tsaritsyn and its history? And about the Tsar as well? Live for now.

[ergh081]

I didn't write anything about Tsaritsyn or its history. Whose are you, Kasatik? "Live for now"? What do you mean for now? Maybe you are comrade Beria or the "Master" himself? Pick your expressions with a fucking dick.

[Iris]

The airport was renamed - good. The city for three days - not bad either. And to rename itself to Dzhugashvili for at least an hour - is it too much? I understand, the balls are not the same, even in full face, even in profile. But this is a question for Alina. And if we are talking about business, in this hour the progress would have been cardinal!

[oleg_627]

Stalin is one of the most powerful rulers in the world. It's just that Khrushchev and the liberals of the 90s have tarnished the history of the country,

[Dutchman Michel]

Renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is a good and logical idea

Shouldn't Stalingrad have been renamed Volgograd?

[Anatolka]

And why didn't they consult the people about bringing in millions of labor emigrants who don't understand Russian and who also hate Russia and Russians? Wasn't the people's opinion important in this? But all that matters is the return of the city's name.

[Igor-68]

I am a native Volgograder, I have lived here all my life. Personally, I am definitely for returning the name Stalingrad. But I want to say that the overwhelming majority of my acquaintances are against it (we have talked about this more than once). I think that if we have a vote in our city, the idea of ​​renaming will not pass.

[Aleksandr58]

Well, regarding the 6000 voters at VTsIOM - who was the poll conducted among? Apparently, among officials, not among residents. A VTsIOM poll has long been a common expression of bias.

[Igor-68]

I haven't heard of such a survey. We haven't conducted it in Volgograd. Or they conducted it in such a way that no one knew about it.

[vovochkarzhevsky]

And the idea of ​​reviving the Volgograd tractor industry never occurred to the Supreme Commander?

[Igor-68]

This is basically no longer practical. There have been talks for a long time about building a residential complex on this site, plus running a tram through Nizhny to Spartanovka. But so far, alas, nothing concrete, just plans.

[Andrey Mishin]

The airport can be renamed, but the city is not advisable. It would be better to return the old name Tsaritsyn.

[Leonid Dymov]

Don't wake up trouble - while it's quiet. Residents of the deported peoples of the North Caucasus have an extremely negative attitude towards Stalin. Now they are actively fighting the Ukronazis. The discussion about renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is very beneficial to the Western intelligence services. Perhaps they are the ones making such leaks.

[AlexSam]

Let's legalize the niqab so that the people of the Caucasus can easily swallow something?

[sidorov]

Quote: Leonid Dymov

The discussion about renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad is very beneficial to the Western intelligence services. Perhaps they are the ones making such leaks.

The results of voting in Russia are always "as they should be". So we will find out who is really getting at what and what they are trying to achieve.
For example, with the help of “spirit-lifting” initiatives.

[RondelR]

It is not the president who should decide such issues, but the residents.

[AlexSam]

Of course, I'll be downvoted for the ryat, but I think there was no point in dancing to the tune of these two degenerates, the marked man and the drunkard with his democratic pack, and renaming the cities that have become the history of our great Motherland. Was anyone upset by the fact that he was born and raised in Leningrad, Gorky, Kuibyshev, Sverdlovsk? No one, ever. People born in the Soviet Union still consider themselves Leningraders and are proud of it. Only the prostitutes from the creative intelligentsia were upset. They are spiritual. Jew after Jew. All these cities should probably be renamed too and no longer engage in trading in their historical memory. The current generations have long since traded it in for iPhones.

[sidorov]

Quote: AlexSam

Of course, I'll be downvoted now... The current generations have long since traded it in for iPhones.

I don't downvote, but I don't agree either.
Current generations, like past ones (in the next world... .) have every moral right to curse forever and ever and send to hell the fools who traded a big country for the “biblical miracles” from Gaidar.

Who "saved the country from famine" by destroying its industry and agriculture at the beginning of the "holy" 90s.

[AlexSam]

Gaidar and his comrades heard you))) look how tightly they laid it down))

[solovyov-igor]

It's high time! And also stop filming anti-Soviet stuff!

[Anatoly Shpalin]

Mom into dad, and let them rename the magnifying glass into the navel.

There is nothing else to do in the country except rename everything and frantically grasp at the legacy of the USSR with or without reason.

[Uma palata]

This is how to find the right thing to do in time - discussions, voting.

[Igor Belobrov]

[quote=leks][quote=СССР.]Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city's residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.[/quote]
However, as shown by the Bloknot poll, in which more than 6 thousand people took part, the majority, namely 90% of participants, are against.
In February 2023, VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents of the region about changing the name of the city. 67% of Volgograd residents did not agree with the renaming, 26% of residents were in favor of changing the name.

What unanimous decision are you writing about?![/quo [quote=leks][quote=USSR.]Conduct a vote and return the city to its heroic name. Stalingrad sounds proud. I think the city's residents will unanimously decide to rename the city.[/quote]
However, as shown by the Bloknot poll, in which more than 6 thousand people took part, the majority, namely 90% of participants, are against.
In February 2023, VTsIOM conducted a survey among residents of the region about changing the name of the city. 67% of Volgograd residents did not agree with the renaming, 26% of residents were in favor of changing the name.

What unanimous decision are you writing about?![/quote]
6000 people out of a million Liberals rule. Negative attitude towards Stalin? Well, of course he didn't allow stealing, he shot those who especially distinguished themselves in theft. And the veterans all died, and those who remained read the Volkogonovs, Medvedevs, Solzhenitsyns.

[AlexisT]

What do the city residents have to do with it?! This is part of the Soviet Union, the USSR and the glorious past, and not just the residents of Volgograd. I think the survey of the city's population is in no way connected with the return of historical memory.

[Prometey]

If I lived in Volgograd, I would be against another renaming. Volgograd is a beautiful modern name for the city. And there is nothing good in the chaos of renaming cities. Historical memory can be preserved in a different way.

[zxc15682]

Why the hell? It will be like our city Yekaterinburg in the Sverdlovsk region.

[pussy_wanting]

Nie dość, że w Moskwie obok Kremla i świętej cerkwi Wasyla Błogosławionego jest mauzoleum sługi szatana, to jeszcze chcą czcić kata milionów Rosjan? To jakiś obłęd. Trzeba przywracać wielkość i świętość Rosji, bo tylko w Bogu jest nadzieja na przyszłość.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Leave the city and its residents alone. For Russians and residents of Volgograd, Stalin is not a hero. If someone is impatient to name the city in honor of Stalin, let them rename Kyiv or Tbilisi to Stalingrad. Volgograd has a historical name, Tsaritsyn, and if the residents agree, it can be returned. There is nothing seditious in this. Stalin will be remembered in Russia even without Stalingrad and will be remembered with an unkind word, as a villain and murderer. It was not Stalin who died on the Volga, but Russian soldiers.

[Anatolka]

And now Putin is dying with the elite in the SVO? The question is purely by analogy, because your last argument against Stalin is not clear what for. And so, in pursuit. And in what country and when did the Head of the country/Commander-in-Chief die in the trenches together with the soldiers? And the Kremlin and the elites may already oppose Tsaritsyn. Part of the people actively want a tsar. What if a new Ivan the Terrible shows up? Heads may fly. And the struggle for the throne itself will be serious, if anything. Again, heads will fly and the country can be torn to pieces and lost for decades, if not forever.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: Anatolka

And the Kremlin and the elites may already oppose Tsaritsyn. Part of the people actively want a tsar. What if a new Ivan the Terrible shows up?

The name Stalingrad existed for only 36 years, and the name Tsaritsyn existed for 336 years and is associated with the name of the local river. Okay, the Bolsheviks lost their minds and renamed the city, but why continue to make a fuss? It is an ancient place that the Aryans staked out, and they are our ancestors. It is necessary to treat the people's memory carefully, and not follow the conjuncture of one day. Stalin stood at the origins of the emergence of Israel. Why don't the Jews name Israel in honor of Stalin?

[Anatolka]

What difference does it make where the name comes from if it reminds you of a "tsar"? And why did they drag the Jews into this? Like the Aryans. Very strange logic. And Stalin, you "forgot" to clarify, not everyone remembers and will remember him as a villain and murderer. At least for the simple reason that he was the main country both at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War and at the time of the Victory. And to deny the connection, as well as to say that Stalin did not sit in a trench, is somewhat unwise, to put it delicately.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: Anatolka

What difference does it make where the name comes from if it reminds one of the "king"?

Princes, boyars, tsars - this is the history of Russia, from which you can't hide and without which Russia is no longer possible. We are a product of our history and evolution. There is no need to try to hide from it, much less conceal it.
The Aryans are our ancestors and lived in those places long before the appearance of Volgograd and Tsaritsyn, and even the Tatar-Mongols.
Stalin actively contributed to the emergence of Israel and Ukraine. Accordingly, if Jews and Ukrainians are so grateful to him, they can name avenues, cities and even their own country in his honor, if they like. What does Russia have to do with it? Stalin did not transform, but destroyed the great Russian Empire, which Russians remember.

[Anatolka]

Only the "unwise" do not remember that Lenin was the destroyer of the Russian Empire, and in addition, the one who used civil war as a means to achieve the goals of his ideas, which, as everyone should know, is immeasurably worse than any foreign war. In addition, you seem to be stubborn in denying the connection between "Stalin - Victory in the Great Patriotic War". Well, you are free to believe, even under the influence of someone else's ideas, what you want. Consider the last sentence an analogue of what people are banned for here. There is nothing to talk about with you.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: Anatolka

Only the completely "unwise" do not remember that Lenin was the destroyer of the Russian Empire

Stalin headed the militant wing of Lenin's Bolshevik Party, if you remember, and it was thanks to this that he came to power.

Quote: Anatolka

In addition, you seem to be stubborn in denying the connection between "Stalin and Victory in WWII".

I do not deny anything and have not written about it anywhere. Nevertheless, it can be unequivocally stated that if Stalin had not carried out bloody repressions, including in the ranks of the Red Army, and had brought the troops to combat readiness in June 1941, then the losses in the Great Patriotic War would have been significantly less. Only because of Stalin the troops were in barracks and not in trenches on June 22, 1941. Millions of trained soldiers and officers died because of his stupidity and arbitrariness and only thanks to this the Germans reached Moscow. Isn't the price of victory too high? They won only thanks to the exceptional tenacity of soldiers, officers and the population. What is Stalin's merit here? In that he did not organize the evacuation of the population and thereby led to multi-million losses among the civilian population. In that the equipment, machinery, rolling stock, weapons depots, ammunition and food went to the enemy. The fact is that due to the destruction of the intelligentsia and engineering corps, the country was unable to establish timely production of competitive tanks and aircraft.

[Anatolka]

Stalin headed the militant wing of Lenin's Bolshevik Party, if you remember, and it was thanks to this that he came to power.

Do you really understand the difference between the "customer" and the "executor", the leader and the militant? What difference does it make how Stalin came to power? Without a leader, the whole gang falls apart. Without an ideological inspirer, there is no rest of the company, no one to follow and share ideas, and nothing happens. Lenin, in the matter of the collapse of the Russian Empire at a certain point in history, is the main villain and the blood of all the victims of the Civil War is on him. The court appoints a greater punishment to the leader of the gang than to the members of the gang, and you do the opposite.
And regarding the repressions in the ranks of the KA and the rest, there is another point of view. But everyone chooses what they like best. You chose the one voiced. I do not prefer any, since I have neither real objective information nor analytical skills. And you can interpret the events as you like, to your taste and color or to order. But be that as it may, the victory was won under the Commander-in-Chief with the surname Stalin.

[Eugene Zaboy]

Quote: Anatolka

Do you really understand the difference between "customer" and "executor", leader and militant? What difference does it make how Stalin came to power. Without a leader, the whole gang falls apart.

A very accurate description. "Gang". Perhaps, in the 30s of the last century, you could have been shot for such an expression, for insulting the "leader of the peoples".

Quote: Anatolka

But be that as it may, the victory was achieved under a Commander-in-Chief with the surname Stalin.

Victories come in different forms, and there was also a "Pirova".
As for points of view. I prefer the point of view of the majority of those directly involved in these events known to me personally. They are not exactly thrilled with what happened and give very ambiguous assessments of the events in personal conversations.

[Cosplay_Lenin]

Well, look, dear supporters of renaming:
1) Stalin himself did not really support the renaming back then, it is worth considering. There is an official document on this matter. The officials of that time were very worried about Tsaritsyn under Soviet power, it was then kind of against the trend and like a thorn in the side of the proletariat) If we are going to rename according to this logic, then to Putingrad;
2) To live up to Stalin's name, the level of prosperity, industrial production, architecture, culture, and art of the city must be at least pre-war. And there is not even a foundation left from the tractor plant, only a facade wall for decoration. They say that Khrushchev cut most of the post-war reconstruction budget, the plans for post-war Stalingrad were grandiose and no weaker than St. Petersburg or Moscow, or even cooler;
3) I think the city residents are not against it just because, but because of point 2) and other indicators of the economy/improvement/social sphere, etc. Before suggesting a renaming, I advise you to go to this city, evaluate it yourself, talk to the residents, listen to their opinions and arguments, or even help the economy and improvement with all possible assistance.

[Iris]

And has Stalingrad been renamed back yet? I haven't seen any front pages with this news. May 10 or 11? And have they decided not to rename Chuikov yet?