Military Review

Ukraine, it's time to decide

68
Ukraine, it's time to decideMoscow and Kiev cannot establish long-term military-technical cooperation due to constant political turbulence on the Square.


It is no secret that military-technical cooperation between Russia and Ukraine is developing with great creak, and even frankly stalled. Moreover, many projects simply fly derailed. This is largely due to the answer to the questions of what Ukraine is today and whether the agreements concluded today will be reliable in the foreseeable future. It is for these reasons that Russia goes to significant costs associated with the creation of the production of a number of weapons and components for weapons and military equipment on its own territory. Our nearest neighbor is constantly reeling, then Ukraine is in NATO, not in NATO, now in the Customs Union, now out of the Customs Union. In other words, the geopolitical future of Ukraine as a state and the vectors of its development are clearly foggy. There is still no clear answer to the question: Ukraine is what? To this must be added the exorbitant Ukrainian ambitions in a number of joint projects. In particular, in the field of aviation industry, Kiev during the recent negotiations claimed 50 percent. Otherwise, as beyond the scope of common sense, such a position cannot be called. But the Ukrainians did not make reasonable concessions. In this material, the weekly MIC presents a point of view based on the theses and statements of a security expert from the Dnipropetrovsk branch of the National Institute for Strategic Studies Alexei Izhak.

The current state of relations in the military-technical sphere between Russia and Ukraine is characterized by a significant interweaving of cooperation and competition in various areas, which is primarily due to a single scientific and technical base that was laid down in the Soviet period. stories two states.

Models of Russian-Ukrainian relations

To identify key points of contact in armory Russian and Ukrainian policies need to identify patterns of Russian-Ukrainian relations in the production and sale of weapons. Experts from the Ukrainian side note the presence of several similar models.

The first is related exports, most manifested as part of Russian supplies to India and China. Export aviation equipment and warships is accompanied by orders for Ukrainian manufacturers of aircraft missiles and ship engines. Currently, such a symbiosis is most pronounced in the export deliveries of Russian helicopters of all models, for which Ukraine is the monopoly engine manufacturer.

The second model is supplies from arsenals: old, repaired, modernized Soviet weapon systems. These include small arms, armored vehicles, artillery, air defense and front-line aviation. Recipients are mainly African countries. There is competition in this trade sector. However, it is softened by the fact that Ukraine and Russia are in different weight categories.

The third model is post-Soviet development. Ukraine has a strong position in armored vehicles, wide-body aircraft, rocket armament, boats. The monopoly on ship power plants and helicopter engines is preserved. But in most areas, Russia and Ukraine occupy different niches in the market and do not compete, rather complement each other. An obvious conflict occurs only in the field of armored vehicles - the Ukrainian T-84 tank against the Russian T-90, the Ukrainian BTR-3 and the BTR-4 against the Russian BTR-82.

The fourth model - the supply of arms to China. In recent years, Beijing has abandoned large-scale purchases in Russia in favor of creating its own military products based on Soviet and Russian armaments. At the same time, interest remains in some key technologies that are still not reproduced by the Chinese side due to the apparent lag in the scientific and technological base. China is inclined to buy small batches of high-tech products. Such contracts are not interesting for Russia, but attractive for Ukraine.

Perspective directions

In general, with regard to the current state of Russian-Ukrainian relations in the field of military-technical cooperation, there is a complex picture, where the partnership is intertwined with competition. This fact, of course, must be taken into account when analyzing the possibilities of expanding bilateral relations within the framework of the PTS, which are most realizable in the following promising areas.

First of all, we are talking about shipbuilding and helicopter industry. This area includes orders for the supply of Ukrainian enterprises of Russian power plants for ships of various classes, as well as the prospect of concluding agreements on the inclusion of the largest Ukrainian shipyards in the repair process and subsequent modernization of ships fleet Of Russia. The most striking example is the ongoing negotiations between the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation and the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant in Nikolaev. Within the helicopter industry, as in the case of shipbuilding, a significant part of the engines for most Russian helicopters is purchased at Ukrainian plants. In 2011, Motor Sich and Russian Helicopters signed a $ 1,2 billion contract for the supply of engines during 2012-2016. This is the most extensive of the existing contracts of Motor Sich JSC, which accounts for about 25 percent of the annual production of the Ukrainian enterprise.

Do not forget about such a promising course as the aviation industry. In this direction, as is the case with the production of helicopters and shipbuilding, the overall technological base allows Ukraine to be integrated into the arms contracts of Russia. In the field of aviation there is the prospect of a joint production of An-70 and, possibly, military variants of An-148. But so far the economic component of these projects in the total mass of the PTS is negligible.

A separate area that deserves special attention is the rocket and space industry. Today, Ukraine’s participation not only in extending the service life of Russian ICBMs of Soviet construction remains. In the area of ​​rocket production, projects related to MTC include the production by the Ukrainian side of Dnepr conversion ballistic missiles used for space launches, and joint participation with Russia in the Maritime Launch international project. The difficulties that arose in the 2012 year with Dnipro following the demands of the Russians to revise the financial parameters, and at the beginning of 2013 with Zenit, suggesting the likelihood of the Sea Launch to be preserved after an emergency launch, are of a “commercial-political” nature.

We should also mention the possibility of using the existing Ukrainian Zenit and Cyclone missiles and their future modifications to remove Russian military satellites from the “paramilitary” global positioning system GLONASS. On the last point, cooperation can develop in two more important directions. These include the production of electronics for GLONASS receivers and the deployment of a ground correction system, without which GLONASS would not be commercially successful.

Russia and Kazakhstan are in difficult negotiations regarding the launch regime with Baikonur, and the prospects for using Ukrainian missiles depend on their success.

Obstacles in the PTS sphere

And yet, on the way to the implementation of even a small part of the listed areas of Russian-Ukrainian cooperation within the framework of the MTC, serious barriers arise, which often have a frankly political basis. The main obstacle is the lack of mutual guarantees of non-use of interdependence in the sphere of military-technical cooperation in the interests of third countries. Ukraine’s monopolistic production of a whole range of defense products in the framework of military-technical cooperation with Russia creates in many respects illusory fears for the Russian side for serious risks associated with the continued possibility of concluding bilateral agreements between Ukraine and NATO or the EU. That is why Russia is steadily following the path of import substitution of Ukrainian components.

In practice, in the modern world, production programs in the field of armaments and military equipment are becoming increasingly global and less and less dependent on military-political obligations. The most striking example is the contract for the purchase of Mistral, in which even in the case of production at Russian shipyards the control system will be installed exclusively by the French side. Among other things, the holding company "Helicopters of Russia", compensating for the reduction in the volume of deliveries of Ukrainian engines for Russian enterprises, concludes agreements with Canadian manufacturers. It is difficult to call these supplies more reliable than agreements with Ukraine, since the project was hindered by the war in North Ossetia and Abkhazia, but the fact is obvious. Russia is buying from NATO countries and simpler technologies - electronics, armor, simulators.

In addition, experts note that between Ukraine and Russia there is no agreed understanding of the permissible level of interdependence. For example, for the development of existing directions of Russian-Ukrainian cooperation within the framework of the military-technical cooperation, Moscow wants serious guarantees from Kiev in the form of an uncompromising consent to membership in the Customs Union, which will entail long-term economic and political consequences. At the same time regarding cooperation with France and Germany, guarantees for Russia are the benefits of cooperation itself without any membership in the Customs Union.

Yes, the concerns of both sides have grounds, but there is a lot of contrived. Ukraine should understand that no country in the world buys weapons and military equipment just because they are better for cost-effectiveness reasons, and Russia is no exception. If the product is created jointly, then the obligations should be joint. Russia will never agree to monopoly dependence and will get rid of it.

For its part, Russia needs to understand that the “Russian world” does not replace investments. The Ukrainian defense industry will survive without the Customs Union. The Russian market for Ukraine for the same helicopter engines is only a quarter of the production. A break in cooperation with Russia would be extremely painful, but not fatal.

Most experts agree that there is no universal solution here, but there is hope - a tense dialogue between the two countries in recent years will provide a better understanding of mutual interests and allow developing joint projects in areas where the benefits are felt by both parties.
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  1. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF April 4 2013 06: 39 New
    +7
    It is interesting what will happen to their defense industry, if they go to a real alliance with the West. Regulatory framework, technological chains - all this is connected with Russia.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA April 4 2013 07: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: FC Skiff
      It is interesting what will happen to their defense industry, if they go to a real alliance with the West.

      There will be a complete collapse.
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 4 2013 08: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: ATATA
        There will be a complete collapse.

        Colleague, do not exaggerate. The collapse in Ukraine, of course, will be due to today's neglect, but not complete. Without Russia, Ukraine’s European prospects hesitate at best to be a worsened version of Poland, but most likely Romania or Bulgaria.
        1. FC SKIF
          FC SKIF April 4 2013 10: 36 New
          +5
          Bulgaria and Romania are a very distant periphery for Europe, and Ukraine will be a distant periphery for the same Bulgaria.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker April 4 2013 20: 14 New
            +4
            Quote: FC Skiff
            and Ukraine will be a distant periphery for the same Bulgaria.

            Close to the topic ....
            And why are the Ukrainian brothers silent?
            fellow
      2. Kolya
        Kolya April 4 2013 09: 27 New
        +4
        That is what the West wants! It is the collapse of not only the defense industry but also the entire economy of Ukraine! Associate membership for Ukraine is a noose around the neck (comply with all the requirements of the Euro and no risk for the Euro itself as with full members such as Greece). This he is - controlled chaos.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair April 4 2013 12: 00 New
          0
          Quote: Kohl
          It is the collapse of not only the defense industry but also the entire economy of Ukraine!
          As the president of Ukraine Kuchma used to say -Tilki slipiy not to reel our successes! recourse fellow laughing
        2. ramzes1776
          ramzes1776 April 4 2013 15: 08 New
          -2
          Quote: Kohl
          That is what the West wants! It is the collapse of not only the defense industry but also the entire economy of Ukraine!

          It is easier and cheaper for a "banana" republic to impose its opinion.
      3. Prokop
        Prokop April 4 2013 12: 49 New
        15
        Quote: ATATA
        There will be a complete collapse.

        It seems to me that you somewhat underestimate the size of the tragedy that could unfold on part of the territory of Russia, now called Ukraine, in the event of its even closer rapprochement with the West. It is enough to look at the requirements put forward by the European Union to Ukraine on the FTA (complete deindustrialization, destruction of agriculture, destruction of the railway industry, and this list can be tired of continuing) and all this is conspiracy under the reduction to the Geyropei standards.
        1. The
          The cat April 4 2013 23: 56 New
          -1
          Quote: Prokop
          Quote: ATATA
          There will be a complete collapse.

          It seems to me that you somewhat underestimate the size of the tragedy that could unfold on part of the territory of Russia, now called Ukraine, in the event of its even closer rapprochement with the West. It is enough to look at the requirements put forward by the European Union to Ukraine on the FTA (complete deindustrialization, destruction of agriculture, destruction of the railway industry, and this list can be tired of continuing) and all this is conspiracy under the reduction to the Geyropei standards.

          AAAAAAA! We all will die!!!!! laughing
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 07: 20 New
      +4
      Quote: FC Skiff
      I wonder what will happen to their defense industry, they go to a real alliance with the West

      it’s not even what will happen to the defense industry, what will happen to the entire economy. What can produce examples mass-Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, closed factories in other countries. But there will be an independence, well, how will it be, they will be so told laughing
      1. alexng
        alexng April 4 2013 08: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        But there will be an independence


        What is the independence? Oh yes! Slave independence in the grip of the West, such as a hug to suffocation.
        1. GELEZNII_KAPUT
          GELEZNII_KAPUT April 4 2013 09: 39 New
          0
          I would say more, it will look more like an unconventional sekas, it is pleasant to the minority, and to the majority humiliating !!! crying
        2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
          GELEZNII_KAPUT April 4 2013 09: 43 New
          0
          I would say more, it will look like a non-traditional sekas, the minority is pleased, and most are humiliating to tears !!! crying
      2. FC SKIF
        FC SKIF April 4 2013 10: 38 New
        0
        Without economic independence, political independence is impossible, it is like an axiom. Ukraine does not understand this - the worse for them, the further they are, the less attractive the conditions will be friends with us.
    3. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 April 4 2013 08: 05 New
      -2
      China do not forget.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 09: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
        China do not forget.

        China is on which side?
        1. Egoza
          Egoza April 4 2013 10: 30 New
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          China is on which side?

          China can hit from different angles. eg:
          China refused sunflower oil from Ukraine
          One of the largest buyers of Ukrainian olia requires special documents
          China refuses to purchase sunflower oil from Ukraine. As a result, our country risks losing one of the largest and most promising markets for these products. This was announced by the General Director of the industry association "Ukroliyaprom" Stepan Kapshuk, reports Kommersant-Ukraine
          xxxxxx
          Oil, of course, is not the most important product, and it seems it has nothing to do with defense, but the reduction in exports is a blow to Ukraine’s profit. Accordingly, in order to return this export, Ukraine may also make concessions in other matters. hi
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 4 2013 13: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: Egoza
            [Accordingly, in order to return this export, Ukraine may also make concessions in other matters. hi

            To give the coal mines to the Chinese the more so the Chinese laid eyes on this industry, and since they are smartly investing their money, then the working Chinese appear there sad
            1. Aeneas
              Aeneas April 4 2013 22: 07 New
              0
              the return of the good old days. Those Chinese in the Donbass under Tsarism were a dime a dozen (they built railways, mined a coal, etc.). Then they were in the Bolshevik inter-brigades, expropriated from the expropriators.
        2. Reasonable, 2,3
          Reasonable, 2,3 April 4 2013 11: 20 New
          -6
          I do not understand, what the hell are you minus me? I'm talking about the "thread" I say. If you do not know, sit, and shut up - in a chopper
        3. Reasonable, 2,3
          Reasonable, 2,3 April 4 2013 11: 28 New
          +2
          For especially "gifted". China leases the Nitka complex from Ukraine, as Russia has refused to lease, because this year we will enter our own near Novorossiysk.
          1. kubanec
            kubanec April 4 2013 18: 04 New
            0
            under Yeisk - if I am not mistaken.
    4. Kolya
      Kolya April 4 2013 09: 19 New
      +1
      Russia's natural resources should not fuel the Euro economy. Russia is obliged to develop its own production. The EU will suffocate without resources, and Ukraine will have nothing to do with them.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 09: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Kohl
        The EU will suffocate without resources, and Ukraine will have nothing to do with them.

        Well, the European Union will buy from Qatar and others, what will change? With regards to Ukraine, and now what to do?
        1. Reasonable, 2,3
          Reasonable, 2,3 April 4 2013 11: 36 New
          0
          It will change! Qatar-SA-nakakali, And Russia is eternal, she said Panafidin and died. Pikul "Cruiser" -1981.
      2. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 4 2013 22: 09 New
        -2
        Germans buy Russian resources (gas) and resell to Ukrainians, for some reason cheaper than Gazprom prices. repeat
        1. Aeneas
          Aeneas April 4 2013 22: 55 New
          +3
          what our Russian friends are lacking in is self-criticism ... There are virtual patriots, anti-American politicians and pan-Slavism in the post-Soviet version in the state media and in various forums. A sho in real life? In reality, Russia is buying NATO weapons, the Russian establishment is looking for contacts in the West, and propaganda hype is for biomass. The facts are given: Ukraine buys Russian gas from the Germans cheaper than Gazprom’s 150 dollars per thousand cubic meters, Mistral, Lynx, Italian helicopters and engines, French (and even Indian!) Avionics, repairs of the Black Sea Fleet ships in NATO Bulgaria ... Disintegration The post of the Soviet space is gaining momentum, and of course, the Ukrainian defense industry does not have a place in the Russian market. dviguny Motor Sich cease to buy, as well as the turbines of Dawn-Mashproekt, Antonov aircraft, etc. These enterprises will suffer but survive, and will become competitors to Russian armored vehicles. Who is to blame and what to do? Of course, the Kremlin is playing the game in Russian-Ukrainian relations. The destiny of Ukrainians is reciprocal steps and measures that will always be belated and not very effective. Ukraine was euphoric after refusing to join NATO, legitimizing the Russian language, and extending the stay of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy in Sevastopol. In response, the Cold War began from the Kremlin. It already comes to the conclusion that Yanukovych - not a very smart, authoritarian, greedy person, but not an anti-Russian politician at all - is throwing more than Yushchenko, a real opponent of Moscow, on Russian TV. And the friends of Ukraine at the Military Review Forum will minus Ukrainian comments, like those European Social Democrats who are friendly among themselves in the Socialist International, in their parliaments voted for the war between their countries in World War I. However, it is clear that many also began to feel dizzy from successes, and respectable citizens, rather than marginals, began to advocate for a war between Ukraine and Russia.
    5. avt
      avt April 4 2013 09: 48 New
      0
      Quote: FC Skiff
      It is interesting what will happen to their defense industry, if they go to a real alliance with the West. Regulatory framework, technological chains - all this is connected with Russia.

      There will be a kind of Baltic on the Black Sea. Well, maybe louder, in the sense of femen. laughing Well, shit, in accordance with the occupied territory, will be poured on Russia in the first couple more. Then some say that there will be a collapse of the defense. I do not agree, no, maybe there will be a collapse, but the defense will not be for sure. And on the land without land will walk horse and people ...... a kind of pastoral, or whatever it is.
    6. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg April 4 2013 13: 20 New
      0
      Prsto will not be the Ukrainian defense industry. So let them go. The sooner the easier it will be for us ...
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 4 2013 22: 11 New
        0
        Well this is a paradox! Russia is jammed with the NATO defense. And if suddenly Ukraine becomes NATO, the Russian Federation will also begin to buy Ukrainian tanks? what
    7. Babon
      Babon April 4 2013 19: 52 New
      +1
      I think the West does not really need the Ukrainian defense industry, but giving Western weapons on credit is easy, but the Greeks were given a loan. The equipment still needs to be maintained and modernized.
    8. honest jew
      honest jew April 4 2013 22: 21 New
      +1
      There will be a full Opppa !!!!
    9. honest jew
      honest jew April 4 2013 22: 27 New
      +1
      it’s time for Yanukovych to decide who he is, or else he’s rushing around like a girl of easy virtue, now to the Chinese, then to Europe, and in total ...
    10. pavelfi
      pavelfi April 5 2013 01: 53 New
      0
      don’t say, I love you very much, grandfather from damn, but
      They are not enemies to themselves? Without RUSSIA where?
  2. Tatarus
    Tatarus April 4 2013 06: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: FC Skiff
    It is interesting what will happen to their defense industry, if they go to a real alliance with the West. Regulatory framework, technological chains - all this is connected with Russia.

    Yes, nothing will happen. Neither the defense, nor the state. Will they begin to extract oil shale on Ukrainian soil? Dirtied land and water. There will be no agriculture. Mortality will increase, the people will begin to leave the country. AND EVERYTHING. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. stop
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel April 4 2013 07: 55 New
      +5
      You are wrong that there WILL BE NOTHING. Will, "moderators do not miss the expression," will.
      1. opkozak
        opkozak April 4 2013 10: 00 New
        +5
        about the love of Russians to Ukrainians
        political turbulence on an independent?


        The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to register the Ukrainian Congress of Russia. This was stated by representatives of the Ukrainian World Coordinating Council.

        The organization recalled that at the time, the creation of the Ukrainian Congress of Russia was due to the closure of the Union of Ukrainian Russia by a court decision, a federal-level organization with a 20-year history that united Ukrainians from almost all subjects of the Russian Federation.

        “Now in Russia there is not a single all-Russian association of the Ukrainian national minority. But only according to the latest census, about 2 million Ukrainians live in the Russian Federation
        . Although, according to the recognition of the representatives of the Russian authorities themselves, there are twice as many of them, "they say in the Ukrainian world coordination council.

        The Ukrainian Congress of Russia submitted registration documents to the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation in early March 2013.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo April 4 2013 10: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: opkozak
          The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to register the Ukrainian Congress of Russia. This was stated by representatives of the Ukrainian World Coordinating Council.


          What are such Ukrainians? Those who from the Russian bins eat hearty and tasty, and shit there?
          Example: Roman Koshulinsky. A person without a special occupation, who recently became the vice speaker of the Verkhovna Rada from the Nazis from VO "Freedom". For a long time he worked as a laundress cook in geological exploration expeditions on the territory of the Russian Federation. Genetic racist.

          If it were my will, I would generally drive these congregants of the Zapadensky spill, for their art, to build, for example, the Salekhard - Igarka railway line. In winter, damn it, without mittens and tools.
        2. avt
          avt April 4 2013 10: 27 New
          0
          Quote: opkozak
          The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to register the Ukrainian Congress of Russia.

          So what ? Is it difficult to announce the wording of the refusal? So, to educate the persecution of the “poor” ombudsmen by Putin’s guardsmen, in general, we want to open our country, we want to, no, well, like in an independent Ukraine ..
          Quote: opkozak
          The organization reminded that at one time the reason for the creation of the Ukrainian Congress of Russia was the closure by a court decision of the Union of Ukrainian Russia,

          More nemeroa Ukraine from Kamchatka to Berlin? laughing I immediately remembered the beginning of the 90s when the Kravchukian ambassador of Ukraine to Russia subtly hinted at the thick circumstances that in Russia 5 million Ukrainians are working and most of them are in the oil and gas complex, they say a little ....... laughing Something since then, neither Kravchuk nor that ambassador has been seen, but gas and oil are pumping. In general, take care of the pipe Senya. laughing Well, let the coordination be glad that she is happy and everything will be fine and everyone will be happy.
        3. Egoza
          Egoza April 4 2013 10: 37 New
          +5
          Quote: opkozak
          The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to register the Ukrainian Congress of Russia.

          And they did it right! Do not FIG Bandera ravings spread! Enough of the Ukrainian Congress of Nationalists of Canada. True, to register in Russia, the word "nationalist" was modestly omitted. But the essence remains! I have a friend in the Russian Federation - the director of the school - Ukrainian, and for children he organized both Ukrainian circles and excursions to Kiev. But when he looked at the "products" of this organization, he spat and only manages it on his own. Ukrainians in the Russian Federation remember their homeland, but absolutely do not need the "Ukrainian Congress"
    2. alexng
      alexng April 4 2013 08: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: Tatarus
      They will begin to extract oil shale on Ukrainian soil


      Yeah, the shale will get the shale.
  3. svp67
    svp67 April 4 2013 06: 58 New
    +2
    In the article, the author gives a lot of what is “wishful thinking”. An explicit attempt to attract Russian money to the Ukrainian economy. And here it is worth asking, but how much is it profitable for Russia? The allusion to the need to "negotiate" is more than clear. Just until Ukraine itself decides "with whom it is" there will be no serious discussion about investing Russian money in the military-industrial complex of Ukraine.
    1. Tatarus
      Tatarus April 4 2013 07: 07 New
      -1
      Quote: svp67
      Just until Ukraine itself decides "with whom it is" there will be no serious talk about investing Russian money in the military-industrial complex of Ukraine.


      Foreign policy of Ukraine, in recent years, more and more resembles a weather vane. Although no, he turns the weather vane in the wind. The wind from TamSoyuz is even, warm and steady. But Ukraine does not turn. It is as if a village sick and weak turns a weather vane on his head, then here and there, and he’ll tear it off altogether. But just what kind of blessed is it in Ukraine? Yes, and climbed onto the roof and indulges in a weather vane.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo April 4 2013 10: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: Tatarus
        But just what kind of blessed is it in Ukraine? Yes, and climbed onto the roof and indulges in a weather vane.


        This blessed one is called Vitya Yanukovych, an avid and slippery type, backstage conductor of ukrofashists. I can also add that self-preservation instinct replaced this greed for this character. I’m afraid that by the presidential election of 2015, the indefatigable greed of a Viti folder will lead Ukraine to a scenario worse than the Syrian one.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo April 4 2013 11: 15 New
          0
          What kind of Svidomo- "minusun" showed up. Anu ka, show your little face maimed by iodine deficiency. negative
          1. ATATA
            ATATA April 4 2013 11: 24 New
            +3
            he will not show how the black cloak in the night rushes past, vanishes and disappears. laughing
          2. TRAFFIC
            TRAFFIC April 4 2013 13: 25 New
            +2
            I did not minus you, but explain to me the course of your thoughts, that is, Yanukovych Svidomo?
            1. Egoza
              Egoza April 4 2013 13: 32 New
              0
              Quote: TRAFIC
              that is, Yanukovych Svidomo

              Not! He thinks that “he unites everyone”!
            2. Hudo
              Hudo April 4 2013 21: 32 New
              -1
              Quote: TRAFIC
              I did not minus you, but explain to me the course of your thoughts, that is, Yanukovych Svidomo?



              Here is written in detail what you wanted to hear from me.

              http://www.versii.com/news/276484/
        2. Gecko
          Gecko April 4 2013 13: 27 New
          0
          It's time to tell him, "I'm tired, I'm leaving ..."
          1. Egoza
            Egoza April 4 2013 13: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: gecko
            "I'm tired, I'm leaving ..."

            ..... agent Klaus wrote under the dictation of Stirlitz laughing
      2. Tatarus
        Tatarus April 4 2013 21: 45 New
        0
        So I caught a minus from the people of Ukraine or from the ruling Kodla in Ukraine. What did not realize? Dumb staaal, horror is simple.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo April 4 2013 22: 34 New
          0
          Quote: Tatarus
          So I caught a minus from the people of Ukraine or from the ruling Kodla in Ukraine. What did not realize? Dumb staaal, horror is simple.


          Do not take it to heart, we will now restore the status quo.
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 5 2013 04: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Hudo
            Do not take it to heart, we will now restore the status quo.

            Guys! when you understand that all these backing tracks are either from powerlessness or from a big mind fool Here the arguments are needed and it’s not necessary that everyone likes hi
  4. ATATA
    ATATA April 4 2013 07: 07 New
    +3
    If there is no unification of Russia and Ukraine into one state, then the military-industrial complex of Ukraine (which is essentially the so-called imperial heritage, or a fragment of the Soviet military-industrial complex) will face further degradation and collapse. Even in the TS of Russia, nafig it is not necessary to feed a windy competitor on foreign territory. And if Ukraine again comes up with the idea of ​​the EU, and what with advanced defense technologies will go to the enemies? So either the reunion or the collapse of the military-industrial complex, these are not my conditions laughing , this is a homespun truth of life, just common sense and nothing personal.
    1. vilenich
      vilenich April 4 2013 08: 51 New
      +2
      This applies not only to the defense industry, but also to the entire industry, and it is likely that the economy as a whole.
    2. Sirocco
      Sirocco April 4 2013 09: 36 New
      +7
      In Ukraine, they rule business exchanges, pay attention to the fact that with the coming to power of Yanyk (pro-Russian), there are no changes. The situation is the same as with Yushchenko. Consequently, the horse steers, which they call the Business)))) Most likely, these businessmen took the EU Democrats tightly by the balls. And 30 silver pieces are more important for them, and not the state of affairs in Ukraine. Only a blind man does not see the benefit of the fact that as soon as the three brothers in the person of our republics unite. The EU will conquer with grief. They do not need competitors in any form. And slaves, it’s please, but not equal partners.
      1. Natalia
        Natalia April 4 2013 14: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: Sirocco
        Only a blind man does not see the benefit of the fact that as soon as the three brothers in the person of our republics unite.

        This is a kakba by itself, but it is unlikely that it will be soon (if at all).
        So far, Ukraine, absorbed by the oligarchy, has recovered, and will not return soon, but if it does return it may not come to us at all ..... We are forced to move on, because the three do not wait for one.
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 April 5 2013 05: 10 New
          +3
          Quote: Natalia
          but that's just it is unlikely to be soon (if at all).

          Natalia hi I already wrote about this, but I repeat, although I don’t like it, over the whole 20-plus years of independence in Ukraine, an entire generation has grown up for which Russia is a foreign country and most of the time it was not the most friendly thanks to politicians from both sides request Now a new one is growing up and the situation is the same. So what's next? Until there is a Ukrainian politician who can take responsibility for the country's policy towards at least integration with Russia to start a full-fledged economic, not to mention anything more, nothing will budge. And in 5-7 years it will be too late hi
  5. fenix57
    fenix57 April 4 2013 07: 50 New
    12
    Quote: ATATA
    . And if Ukraine again has the idea of ​​the EU
    -Well, for what it wanders, the Ukrainian leadership is trying to catch it everywhere.

    Ukraine has applied for NATO membership.
    Now it is waiting for NATO to add it as a friend and mark it on the photo.
    Decide, decide ...... look what’s going on there .... Soon there will be a repetition, but it is not for them to learn ... hi
  6. bazzz
    bazzz April 4 2013 08: 08 New
    +2
    At the moment, as far as I understand, we have already begun to move away from Ukrainian products. The expansion of KB Klimov, the rejection of ANs and this is only the beginning. And about their belief that they will come out without our cooperation, we can say with confidence that the Western allies will do everything to ensure that this does not happen. Moreover, all this will be destroyed under beautiful slogans, about European quality, about the transition to the European standard and, of course, about the rotten Soviet heritage!
  7. bazzz
    bazzz April 4 2013 08: 10 New
    +1
    Yes, and the West does not need extra competitors in the arms market!
  8. amp
    amp April 4 2013 08: 18 New
    0
    Ukraine’s relations with Russia and the West resemble one film, about an agronomist who wanted to cross potatoes and tomatoes. To the bottom of the potato and instead of potato tomatoes normal tomatoes. Well, he crossed them, but only the top turned out to be potatoes, and the bottom of the tomato.
    So Ukraine, being between the EU and Russia, instead of benefiting from this, receives a hat from both them and us.
  9. pinecone
    pinecone April 4 2013 08: 20 New
    -4
    The principle they have is simple and unpretentious. It is defined by three words - "who will give more." Maybe it's worth lowering gas prices for Ukraine ?.
  10. HAM
    HAM April 4 2013 08: 23 New
    -3
    Oh, how I want to eat a fish .............
  11. hunting
    hunting April 4 2013 08: 24 New
    +1
    And that everyone is looking west in the mouth lol
    1. Gecko
      Gecko April 4 2013 08: 48 New
      -1
      Yes, they print their candy wrappers and give them to the Papuans.
  12. PAC3
    PAC3 April 4 2013 08: 46 New
    0
    the author of this opus is not at all in the subject of military production in Ukraine).
    In 2012, Ukraine on the topic of military-technical cooperation delivered ONLY 36 engines for the Yak-130 to the Russian Federation. At the same time, Ukraine took fifth place in the export of armaments in 2012.
    So write the author more - local "Russopatriots" want to "masturbate")))))
  13. Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 4 2013 09: 09 New
    -3
    Quote: Captain Vrungel
    You are wrong that there WILL BE NOTHING. Will, "moderators do not miss the expression," will.

    Skip: it will be - x ... it .... oops ... them .... ya ... Wed .... oh .... her ..... ah .... yay
    ! Something like this. hi
  14. Apollo
    Apollo April 4 2013 10: 07 New
    +5
    Transfers of Ukrainian guest workers for the first time exceeded the volume of foreign investment


    KIEV, April 4. Ukrainians abroad sent to their families last year $ 7,5 billion money transfers, including just over $ 1 billion - illegally. At the same time, foreign investors invested in the Ukrainian economy in 2012 only $ 6,013 billion.

    Read more: http://www.rosbalt.ru/ukraina/2013/04/04/1113605.html

    That’s the answer to the question of who is better with Ukraine, with Russia or the EU ?!
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 4 2013 10: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: Apollon
      That’s the answer to the question of who is better with Ukraine, with Russia or the EU ?!

      So it’s clear to you, but “us” is a big question
      Opposition leads Ukraine to shale Chernobyl
      The people's deputy of the Communist Party of Ukraine Spiridon Kilinkarov believes that the “opposition”, embracing the party in power, will consistently lead Ukraine to shale Chernobyl.
      So the deputy commented on the statement of the strike leader Vitali Klitschko about the need to maximize the development of shale gas in Ukraine. As the Communist deputy noted, an interesting metamorphosis occurred with the opposition forces, representatives of the so-called “opposition” who had previously opposed shale gas production today already have radically opposite opinions on this matter.
      “Mr. Tyagnybok was the first to lay down his arms, whose frenzied company of neo-Nazis embroidered on his chest tore and screamed that they would not allow the production of shale gas. True, they now periodically fonit about it, but for the sake of view,at a meeting their leader at a meeting with representatives of European business dotted all the "i"when he said that “Freedom” is not against oil shale, the main thing is that evidence should be presented that there is no risk to the environment.
      Then similar changes in views occurred with the "Fatherland", Yatsenyuk in early February demanded first a moratorium on the production of shale gas, and then, in March, also gave the go-ahead, provided that "there will be no harm to the environment." As for the cautious Klitschko, he simply waited until his associates in the “opposition” camp matured and delivered, so to speak, the final verdict on this issue, ”the parliamentarian recalled.
      “Fulfilling the instructions of their masters from the USA and Europe, the" opposition "essentially spit on the interests, rights, health of our citizens, and also having the audacity to position themselves as fighters for justice. Despite the statements of environmentalists that the development and production of this gas could cause a terrible natural disaster, or, as we say, the Communists, in fact, shale Chernobyl, the “opposition” feeds people with fairy tales about Ukraine’s energy independence and the benefits of these projects, ”summed up the communist.
      http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-ukraine/227391
      xxxxx
      Everything related to business - a striking unity arises between the government and the Oppa! On the country and the people - do not care. But if the road is closed for the "zarobitchans", then Russia will again be to blame!
      1. Aeneas
        Aeneas April 4 2013 22: 19 New
        +1
        the communists in Ukraine are cool ... They rule the country as a part of the majority of deputies of the pro-power coalition, and the slates are Yanukovych’s project. Well, hto licked? Esseno is a whistle! laughing
    2. vilenich
      vilenich April 4 2013 16: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Apollon
      Ukrainians abroad sent $ 7,5 billion in remittances to their families last year,

      Take into account the fact that money earned in Russia is also taken into account here!
  15. Corsair
    Corsair April 4 2013 11: 52 New
    -4
    Quote: alexneg
    What is the independence?
    Independence from the mind and common sense.
  16. Egoza
    Egoza April 4 2013 13: 01 New
    +2
    Dear colleagues! I believe that today and at this stage, discussing a similar topic is an empty concussion. NEED TO UNDERSTAND INSIDE THE COUNTRY !!!!
    Today -
    Fisherman opened a meeting of the majority of BP at Bankova
    Chairman of the Parliament Vladimir Rybak opened a meeting of the majority of the Verkhovna Rada in the parliament committee building on Bankova Street. The broadcast of this meeting is conducted by the Rada television channel. (Discusses the dissolution of BP by the president or self-dissolution)
    The opposition will hold its own plenary meeting in Parliament
    Opposition factions "Fatherland", "Freedom" and BLOW intend to assemble in the session back of the Rada for a plenary meeting chaired by Deputy Chairman of the Parliament Ruslan Koshulinsky. (Since the majority is not in the BP building, everything that they (majority) will accept is a coup http://polemika.com.ua/news-114441.html
    xxxxx
    Think it over! The parliament is divided and holds a meeting in two different places !!!! Are we getting two parliaments? And everyone makes their decision?
    xxxxx
    I also advise you to look. http://www.versii.com/
    Three sources of national debility ...
    The opposition is ready to fill Ukraine with blood
    S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ... S ...
    That's when it settles down, then it will be possible to "determine"
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 April 5 2013 05: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: Egoza
      The opposition is ready to fill Ukraine with blood

      Elena hi But is Ukraine ready to be filled with blood? or at this stage you can still get by with a banal scuffle for those especially suffering?
  17. Kars
    Kars April 4 2013 13: 11 New
    +8
    There are no prospects for cooperation between the military-industrial complex and Russia. It does not make sense to bet on this. Any cooperation will be used for political pressure, or direct blackmail.

    This is perfectly shown by the situation with the AN-70 who spoke, I hope at least not to death.
    1. Babon
      Babon April 4 2013 19: 56 New
      0
      But what about helicopters? It seems we are cooperating.
      1. Kars
        Kars April 4 2013 20: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Babon
        It seems we are cooperating.

        So far, while the Russian Federation is building substitution capacities. And this is logical.
        Therefore, Motor promotes service stations in the Middle East and Africa.
        it is a matter of time.
  18. Algor73
    Algor73 April 4 2013 13: 12 New
    +7
    Started for the military-industrial complex, and God knows what they graduated from. This is the true face of the Slovenian brothers (both Russian and Ukrainian) - to pour mud on each other. Europe does not need a high-tech Ukraine, there are enough of its problems and competitors. And Russia does not need it. It is only necessary if you unite again in order to know for sure that “this is mine” or “ours”. But with the capitalist development of the state, this is impossible, since everything will be someone else's. Ukraine is slowly moving away from Russia, economic ties are breaking off, Ukraine is looking for other markets and is not always inconclusive. Only for the future - Europe does not need us, it is obvious and does not even need to be discussed. And it’s not easy either. Isn't it better to unite? Or wait again for something to crash somewhere
    1. Bandera
      Bandera April 4 2013 15: 02 New
      +4
      Need to work. Learn, invent and create. And with whom it is better to cooperate, time will tell.
      The military-industrial complex of Russia is quite self-sufficient. Ukraine in this regard is very behind and whether they will catch up. It is necessary to agree with Russia, China, the USA, France on cooperation and the purchase of advanced weapons, to create analogues and superior models.
      Now the political situation in Ukraine wants to be better. But all the same, sooner or later the time will come for pragmatists, not demagogues, or even worse than outright bandits in power.
      1. Algor73
        Algor73 April 4 2013 17: 04 New
        +2
        I agree in part. Historically, our military-industrial complex is "twisted!" with Russian and sales markets are the same - Asia, Africa. We can’t stand the competition - we need a lot to plump into the defense industry. And the policy of our “fathers” is by no means directed in the wrong direction. It is necessary to support the military-industrial complex until better times. And support is only contracts. So it turned out with Zubr - it’s not very correct before the Russians, but the plant survives. And it was possible to somehow solve the problem together. But only, alas, the Russians do not want to agree. They physically want to destroy a competitor. Leave only Motor Sich, and then for now. So it's better to survive together
      2. Babon
        Babon April 4 2013 20: 02 New
        0
        If you compare the technology, then on paper, the military-industrial complex of Russia lags behind. But in practice, how many minimized projects in the west? There was a lot of advertising, money, but in practice they haven’t gone that far. Where are their stealth for example? But what is the cost? The same strikers.
  19. Avenger711
    Avenger711 April 4 2013 16: 10 New
    0
    The share of helicopter engines purchased by Russia at 25% may not seem fatal, but where else does Ukraine supply them to? I won’t be surprised if there is still as much to China, can this market be called somehow stable? I doubt it very much. So, Motor Sich has a maximum of 20 years left. The remaining industries, in particular armored vehicles, are now virtually dead, fluttering with Soviet T-84UDs converted to T-80 and broken contracts for armored personnel carriers, for example, many details Ukraine itself has not produces and buys in Russia.
    1. Algor73
      Algor73 April 4 2013 17: 11 New
      +5
      You again touch upon the fact that it was agreed hundreds of times that the T-84 is a converted T-80UD, and the T-90 is a transferred T-72. There are problems in Russia with supplies. Motor Sich, if it lasts 20 years, it will become a giant. Do not forget about promising new markets, this is China, the saturation of which is growing sharply, India will not always be ready to buy equipment, Pakistan, etc. No need to bury Ukraine. But if we are apart, then we lose, this is unique.
  20. Navy7981
    Navy7981 April 4 2013 17: 13 New
    +5

    "The Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to register the Ukrainian Congress of Russia. This was stated by representatives of the Ukrainian World Coordinating Council.

    Now in Russia there is not a single all-Russian association of the Ukrainian national minority. "


    Yes, there is no Ukrainian minority in Russia! There is one people. This is how to start sharing your body. Ukrainian (or Russian) leg chopped off !!! My mother-in-law is Ukrainian, so she somehow does not consider herself a minority, does her wife turn out to be half-Ukrainian, what is half-minority? This is nonsense that politicians carry, for the sake of their own well-being. Maybe enough to share? Can we be parts of one whole? Who can say anything, but we have everything! Hands, heads, knowledge, skills to work, but listen forever the devil knows who!
  21. varov14
    varov14 April 4 2013 19: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: alexneg
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    But there will be an independence


    What is the independence? Oh yes! Slave independence in the grip of the West, such as a hug to suffocation.

    But there will be an independence and the ability to shake naked boobs in Paris as a member of the European Union.
  22. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker April 4 2013 20: 30 New
    +6
    Why think here?

    Dermocratic "lawyers" breed Russia with Ukraine - both literally and figuratively.

    I don’t understand one thing - what could be promised that VITEK would fly off the coils so quickly?
    hi