The no longer secret Su-35: foreign press about Russian fighter

83
The latest talk about the upcoming purchase by China of Russian Su-35 fighters attract the attention of the whole world. China claims to domination, at least in the region, and new generation fighter "4 ++" can significantly increase its military potential. So far, we are talking only about a few dozen aircraft, but we should not forget the contracts of the past years, when Chinese engineers carefully studied the purchased equipment and made their own on its basis. Thus, the purchased Su-35 may well become a kind of basis for hundreds of new fighters that will not yield to planes of other countries of Southeast Asia.



In connection with such a possible development of events, foreign experts and amateurs aviation show increased interest in the new Russian aircraft. A few days ago, the Defense Industry Daily (DID) wrote about the fighter. The article received the high-profile title Russian SU-35 Super-Flanker: Mystery Fighter No More (“Russian Su-35 Super-Flanker: No More Secret Fighter”). Although the authors of the publication, for obvious reasons, do not have complete information about the Su-35 fighter, it is nevertheless worth familiarizing themselves with their opinions and assessments of prospects.

First of all, DID is reminded of the recent confusion with designations, when the Su-35 index hid two combat vehicles at once, which had significant differences from each other. The first of them was a Su-27 with an updated composition of avionics and other engines, and the second was a deep modernization of the original fighter. In particular, the new machine, sometimes called the Su-37, received the front horizontal tail. However, recently the situation has become clear and under the name Su-35 only one fighter appears. The article mentions another confusion, this time with the manufacturers. It is noted that not all plants and corporations directly related to the construction of new aircraft placed them on the list of products on their official websites.

The current Su-35, which previously had additional letters “BM” in the designation, according to DID employees, is a kind of compromise between the two ideas of equipping the Air Force with a new technique. Su-35 is considered as something between a simple upgrade of serial machines and a new vision of the look of a modern heavy fighter. The result of this approach was the equipping of the H035 “Irbis” onboard radar with a passive phased antenna array, the use of the L175M “Khibiny-M” jamming system and the installation of equipment on the aircraft necessary to create so-called glass cabin. Regarding the design of the aircraft, DID notes the rejection of the use of the front horizontal tail, the new AL-37FU turbojet engines with variable thrust vectoring and substantial modifications of the wing, tail assembly and their mechanization. It is worth noting that the Su-35 fighters use the engines of the AL-41F1 family, and a certain "AL-37FU" may be a simple mistake.



In the context of the new avionics, DID note the specific situation with the radar. Of course, the passive phased-array electrohydraulic driven array is capable of finding and attacking a large number of targets (30 and 8, respectively), but some questions remain. It is noted that the information on the maximum detection range of an air target in 400 kilometers is not accompanied by a corresponding disclaimer regarding the effective dispersion area (EPR) of the object found. Quite rightly, the article notes that finding a small fighter is much more difficult than finding a large passenger plane.

Commenting on the statements of the Sukhoi company about reducing the visibility of the aircraft, the DID staff remind that the Su-27 family of fighters never had a small EPR and therefore one should hardly expect much success in this area from the new Su-35. However, reduced visibility is not excluded, which may be facilitated by the use of special materials and the transfer / removal of protruding parts.

Finally, employees of Defense Industry Daily touched the resource of the new fighters. They do not call the declared figures real or impossible. In their opinion, only time can show whether the creators of the aircraft were right, talking about the glider's resource in the 6000 clock and the engine in the 4000.

An assessment of the prospects for the new Su-35 fighter begins with a small excursion into history. The authors recall that the Su-27 was created as a response to the fourth-generation American fighter F-15, F-16 and F-18, thanks to which the designers from the USSR were able to take into account all the possibilities and prospects of the aircraft of a potential enemy. As a result, the Su-27 turned out so successful that in a few years it became more successful in export terms than the MiG-29, previously offered for sale to third countries.

In just a few years, the Su-27 and its modifications could become the main competitor of American and foreign fighters in the international market. The fighters, created on the basis of Su-27, have won a certain market share and now they can be replaced by new Su-35. They will have to fight for new contracts with American and European fighters of the 4 and 4 + generations. In addition, competition is possible with the Chinese aircraft J-10 and J-11. Among other things, DIDs note that Russia's claims on China over the illegal copying of aircraft (J-11 is a copy of Su-27SK) are fully substantiated.

In general, employees of Defense Industry Daily are not inclined to overestimate the export prospects of Su-35 fighters. First, with all their advantages, these planes are inferior to the Chinese J-11B in one of the main parameters - the price. This may have an impact on the decision of potential buyers. The second reason for which DIDs do not see great prospects, concerns the saturation of the market. A large part of the countries that are potential buyers of new aircraft, has already acquired the required number of machines of older models. Their service life is not over yet, so for some time a number of Eastern European and Asian countries will not buy fighters, including the Su-35.

As a result, a specific situation develops: some states have already bought airplanes and no longer need them, while others have chosen not Russian equipment. The number of remaining countries is small, and the volume of possible contracts will force all aircraft manufacturers to invest a lot of strength and, possibly, money in promoting their products. More or less understandable situation, according to DID, is developing with Indonesia, Vietnam and some other countries of Southeast Asia. They are not inclined to buy American or Chinese military equipment, so Russian planes may prefer. However, now these states are paying under previous contracts. Moreover, their financial capabilities suggest that in the future we should not expect new large orders of new, more expensive aircraft.

The overall "sentence" on the export of the Su-35 fighter, in the opinion of the Defense Industry Daily, is generally positive. However, DID recognize that the new fighter of the Su-27 family will be sold with much greater difficulties than previous versions of the famous aircraft.

Only one comment can be added to the article of Defense Industry Daily. Currently, Su-35 fighters are being built only for the Russian air force (these aircraft have the letter “C” in the title). Before 2015, the Air Force will receive 48 fighter jets. Su-35 deliveries to China are just being discussed. Not so long ago, information appeared about signing a contract, but in the best case, new aircraft for the PLA Air Force will be assembled only in a few years. As for deliveries to third countries, it is too early to talk about them. Naturally, it is too early to assess the prospects for the Su-35 in the international market. However, if we take into account the current situation and possible ways of its development, the forecast of the DID publication looks quite understandable and logical. But still I want Russian aircraft manufacturers to earn not only on large orders for the Air Force of their country, but also on export contracts.


Defense Industry Daily: http://defenseindustrydaily.com/russias-su-35-mystery-fighter-no-more-04969/
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  1. Krasnoyarsk
    +45
    April 3 2013
    Not to sell to China Su-35, S-400 and Amur, money in cash, and technology will flow away.
    1. +22
      April 3 2013
      I don’t understand the meaning of selling su-35 to China ... either greed or one of two
      1. +13
        April 3 2013
        Quote: Civil
        I don’t understand the meaning of selling su-35 to China ... either greed or one of two

        If 24 pcs. they’ll bet it’s not even greed, but politics. Some kind of exchange. There will be no big gain in the deal. But what’s what
        exchanged - we may not know.
        1. +5
          April 3 2013
          I took the language straight drinks
          backroom deals are far more important than profits from 24 aircraft. Well, helping out a little less than 2 billion dollars ... of course, not a little, but not so much as to lose much more on competitive equipment built by China itself.
          1. Ilya Kovalenko
            0
            April 16 2013
            Not built but copied. However, there is a difference.
        2. opkozak
          +6
          April 3 2013
          What do they write

          More than twenty leading Russian defense enterprises take part in the Langkawi international maritime exhibition, LIMA-2013, which opened on March 26 in Malaysia.

          Russia represents a wide range of military equipment, warships and boats, as well as elements of missile defense. This exhibition means a lot to the weapons of Rosoboronexport, Russia's export agency. The country has been a regular participant in this weapon show since 1991, company spokesman Vyacheslav Davidenko told VoR.

          “Russia has been instrumental in helping LIMA become the largest arms exhibition in the Asia-Pacific region and a platform for military cooperation between countries. This time we offer visitors the opportunity to see our last su-35 a multipurpose fighter, a Yak-130 jet trainer, Mi-28 attack helicopters, a Ka-50 single-seat attack helicopter, and a Mi-26 heavy transport helicopter. We also have a multimedia pavilion to showcase in Russia the latest advances in military shipbuilding: Cheetah-class frigate, Mirage and Sable patrol boats. Visitors to the Russian pavilion will also see the new generation of M2M Beech anti-missile defense elements and Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile and anti-aircraft artillery weapon systems. Russia traditionally has a strong position in this niche of the military-industrial complex. "
        3. +8
          April 3 2013
          For many, information from a week ago passed unnoticed. The Americans are thrilled that we have allocated a lot of money for the reconstruction of the microelectronics industry. The domestic company "IT-Platform" is included in the list of forbidden and our production of supercomputers is threatened. Let me remind you that supercomputers are produced by the USA, Japan, Russia, Germany and China, but only the first three countries know how to design them !!!! China creates something that it does not understand itself, but it can order equipment for this production.
        4. +1
          April 3 2013
          Or maybe they just live today. Now cut the dough to saw, well, to fulfill part of the promises, and after us (when China begins to produce serious aircraft) at least a flood.
      2. Grishka100watt
        +2
        April 3 2013
        Maybe this is a political decision. If China can build a fleet of modern combat vehicles, this will significantly complicate the lives of Americans.
        1. Beck
          +5
          April 3 2013
          Quote: Grishka100watt
          Maybe this is a political decision. If China can build a fleet of modern combat vehicles, this will significantly complicate the lives of Americans.


          Grisha, excuse me, of course, but you don’t pull at 100 watts. The United States, of course, this will complicate life, but so will Eurases. It’s like to club a neighbor with a club. Of course, he can drive a distant neighbor with her, but with time he can also sway at you. And if there is no club, then there will be nothing to swing.
          1. Grishka100watt
            +3
            April 3 2013
            Now we are potential allies with China. China does not need America. If you do not help him now, then in the near future we will be left alone!

            Then - yes, it will be necessary to have parity with China, but this is already 30–40 years after we will not allow America to unleash a large-scale war by joint efforts, and thereby we will take to the background in world geopolitics.
            1. 0
              April 6 2013
              That's it!!!
        2. +6
          April 3 2013
          Quote: Grishka100watt
          If China can build a fleet of modern combat vehicles, this will significantly complicate the lives of Americans.
          We look at the map and conclude to whom it can complicate life! hi
          1. Grishka100watt
            +2
            April 3 2013
            Yes, look at the map, ai ???
            What's next??

            A modern fleet is not a screw fighter, they are very quickly transferred to the required distances hi

            Now and in the near future, China cannot fight with us! It's just stupid !!! They will bring down themselves and us! And America will recover again in our bones !!!
            1. 0
              April 6 2013
              In support of your thoughts. Last year's CPC congress decided that whoever "drives a wedge into Chinese-Russian friendship," literally, of course I don’t remember, is appointed by the enemy. And what does it mean in communist China to "ignore" the decisions of the party congress ... fool We somehow went by ourselves, deviations from the course, back and forth, well, he nafig. Before that, by the way, they did without accentuation. Well, if the congress has decided ... For ten years, all political officers will be in charge, hammering into the spinal cord the decisions of the "historical congress of the CPSU, ugh, you, the CPC." good
        3. sasha127
          +1
          April 5 2013
          China is already making life difficult for Americans. But America overseas and we are near.
        4. +1
          April 6 2013
          Quite right. Many of us are ready to get into a fight by ourselves. Of course very noble. But they completely forget that the great NUCLEAR power is somewhat limited in "maneuverability". An elephant in a china shop, somehow not very ... But the main thing! You need to master the art of solving problems WITH ANOTHER HANDS! hi
      3. Sleptsoff
        +6
        April 3 2013
        Or soon a war in which we will fight on the same side with China and the sale of these fighters simply transfer new technology to an ally.
      4. Yankuz
        0
        April 3 2013
        Politics, sir, dear!
      5. 0
        April 6 2013
        either the t-50 really showed breakthrough characteristics and decided to merge outdated technologies in the meanwhile as opposed to the usa, but still the deal is doubtful
    2. +5
      April 3 2013
      That's for sure! And it will be some kind of J-12 later, and they will also write that our planes are losing a lot in price! Although still an important factor, this quality, how do these Js have with it?
      1. Alexander
        0
        April 3 2013
        As far as I know information about the sale of the Su-35, first appeared in Chinese The media, and they always love to invent and exaggerate everything. As for the Chinese fighters, they have very poor survivability.
        1. +3
          April 3 2013
          Well, they already "bought" Tu-22M. But there was no smoke without fire. And negotiations were underway. We'll find out soon, if we really did. But more worried about their own air force.
        2. 0
          April 6 2013
          That's it. You can master the appearance. A tekhnol og and and? Many happy owners of the 40th "Moskvich" will be warmed by the realization that they have a "one-piece" Volkswagen. And just say right away - no mat! hi
    3. vadimus
      +3
      April 3 2013
      If you sell the slingshot to your neighbors, you should have a crossbow in stock!
    4. +5
      April 3 2013
      And where does the technology? Technologies are specific manufacturing processes and equipment. With technology, you can only copy the design while it is necessary to restore the entire technological chain through it. In practice, this is close to the development of new technologies, but does not give a clue about the engineering ideas that are embedded in the aircraft. Thus, you can stick as many copies as you like, but this will not increase your mind. The Chinese have long copied all of our process chains. Until now, they are not able to do something new on this basis, only copies of our ideas. So - let them copy. By the time they figure out what we’ll have done, we’ll already have a completely different technique.
      1. Vovka levka
        -1
        April 3 2013
        A technical school has been preparing for years. But giving them a textbook is not reasonable. Of course, you can tear out separate sheets from the textbook. But part can be recreated, but what doesn’t work is easy to steal. Do you think they have no intelligence?
      2. 0
        April 6 2013
        T-50 is really on the way... It is even a sin not to cut down the "babos" from an airplane 30 years ago, well, pissed off by modernization, but all the same, the designs of "yesterday". Historical example. Between the "Messers-109" modifications from B to K, the distance is enormous. But the creation of "262" ended them as a SPECIES!
    5. +3
      April 3 2013
      The reason for the existence of the economy is to sell competitive products, to create better and more competitive products with the money raised. To sell it again and so on in a closed cycle, otherwise stagnation and lag.
      1. 0
        April 6 2013
        Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes! When discussing articles on similar topics, I am constantly "hysterical and piss with boiling water" in a natural way, proving that this is exactly what SHOULD do. The road will be mastered by the walking one. Movement is life. Etc... hi
    6. 0
      April 3 2013
      Regarding Amur, DPL will be refined and delivered for Chinese money, so it is beneficial to both countries, but the Triumph should never be sold! At least in the next 15-20 years, as the S-500 will arrive in time, you can start selling.
      And with dryers, hmm .... Yes, 24 planes are not enough, although they wrote that during the visit of their head they signed an agreement on not copying to us, but I don't really believe in the honesty of our narrow-eyed "friends"
    7. Reasonable, 2,3
      +1
      April 4 2013
      I wrote that Malaysia will choose "SU-35" - don't expect it !. This is export. Finally, they began to make strategic advertising. We have been working on it for 3 years, Guys, we succeeded. Good luck to us Comrades.
  2. 0
    April 3 2013
    Even if China was sold, the main thing is that it would be distracted by Japan and the United States, otherwise it would be a serious fight now because of a couple of pieces of land.
    1. Perch_xnumx
      +1
      April 3 2013
      Even if China was sold, the main thing is that it would be distracted by Japan and the United States, otherwise it would be a serious fight now because of a couple of pieces of land.
      If you hide your head in the sand, the problem of the lion from behind will not go away from this. (c) ostrich
      Interestingly, our commanders-in-chief have a clear plan in case of a sudden attack by China, or if they run around with round balls. No wonder China rushed to build bunkers and bomb shelters.
      1. +1
        April 3 2013
        I will say this, it’s better at the moment, China will be a partner and will cover and delay the United States and Japan, than we would be enemies now and China and the United States would conduct their affairs.
        And about the sudden attack, there is but since the days of the USSR, when quite good groups were stationed in the Far East.
        PS When an acquaintance served 2011 for a year in Khabarovsk, he worked there in the archive, and so there is a document in which if China attacks, then it is necessary to evacuate the secret object in the mountain and liquidate it, well, and retreat.
        1. Beck
          0
          April 3 2013
          Spoke earlier. I will say it again.

          China has been creeping into all holes for 30 years, since the 1980s, begging for access to modern military technology. The West definitely imposed VETO on the supply of modern weapons to China. Even two years ago, when Europe was in crisis, China volunteered to pay off all its debts in exchange for lifting the embargo on modern weapons in China. It was hard for Europe, but it didn’t even think at least in some way to meet Chinese wishes.

          In 10-15 years, China may well become the first economy in the world. Hence the first state and with its Asian ambitions. And the emphasis of world politics will automatically shift. The first in the economy will be the potential first enemy. Like the USA now. But with amers, Europe can be negotiated. The period of history after the Second World War showed this. How this will be possible with dictatorial, communist China is unknown. It is alarmingly unknown, since traditionally in its history China has been pushing to put forward strict demands and wishes on the verge of execution.

          And the Kremlin, if only there is a momentary benefit. Get a profit, part of which the bureaucrats will drink. They laid the foundation for China for building an aircraft carrier fleet. Let Ukraine sell Varyag, but Moscow could block this deal. Established production of third-generation combat aircraft in China by selling limited quantities of Su-27 and MiG-29. Now the Su-35 is on sale. This is for the Chinese to study and master the production of 4+ and 5th generation fighters. And having understood the principles of avionics, they mastered combat instrumentation.

          China is the future economic, and hence the military rival of the EurAsEC, moreover, on the borders. And inadequate, who can’t see beyond their own nose, all amners shout. Yes, they have little leverage. And there is China - not to equip China with military technology and modern technology. That the Kremlin lacks the armed potential of the USA and Europe, that the third is missing?
          1. Grishka100watt
            +5
            April 3 2013
            But with amers, Europe can be negotiated. The period of history after the Second World War showed


            You are joking?
            1. Beck
              -1
              April 3 2013
              Quote: Grishka100watt
              You are joking?


              All the time agreed. Before the use of military force between the USSR and the West did not reach. These are the Berlin crises of 1953 and 1961. This is the 1956 Hungarian crisis. This is the Caribbean crisis of 1962. This is the crisis in the Middle East in 1967. This is the Czechoslovak crisis of 1968. This is the Afghan crisis.

              In all these crises, they were on the verge of war, but AGREED.

              And it is not known how we will agree in the future with China if Russia wants to restore its Vietnamese base in Kamrani. Or China will remember its historical maps. Or will crush Korea for itself. Or it will expand into Central Asia. This will be a big question in 10-15 years.
              1. Grishka100watt
                +7
                April 3 2013
                agreed, having a military parity. Berlin and Czechoslovak rebellions were being prepared by the West; this is no secret to anyone. Our troops in
                Gorbachev surrendered to Afghanistan (which the West was preparing). So with whom and what can we negotiate ????

                They did not agree with Hussein. I wonder why?

                China is much closer to us, in fact. I repeat: in deed, China has always been closer to us!

                And all these provocations in the media about China are only part of the propaganda, that's all.
                1. Grishka100watt
                  -1
                  April 3 2013
                  I think in this regard, the sale of these machines is just not
                  momentary gain
                  and foreign policy planning for the next 10-30 years.
                2. 0
                  April 6 2013
                  I regularly visit Vladik after the summit’s construction projects; I don’t see any threats on the streets of China, most likely the Central Asian
              2. 0
                April 3 2013
                Quote: Beck
                but AGREED

                The only where exactly the Caribbean crisis agreed, like all the other provoked by a wise, far-sighted Western policy.
                The rest is the internal problems of the countries of the socialist community.
                And it’s a pity, according to analysts, as early as ten years, the cards would have been canceled.
            2. 0
              April 6 2013
              Dear, look at his flag and calm down. The man made a CHOICE.
          2. +1
            April 3 2013
            Quote: Beck
            But with amers, Europe can be negotiated. The period of history after the Second World War showed this.

            Examples please.
            Only about the START treaties is not necessary!
            smile
            1. Beck
              -2
              April 3 2013
              Quote: Cynic
              Examples please. Only about the START treaties is not necessary!


              Well, I wrote about crises at the top. In 1961, in Berlin, on the dividing line, our T-55s and American M-60s stood in front of each other. They could have fired at each other, but they agreed at the top and didn’t get to the war. Made concessions to each other. And in the Czechoslovak events of NATO, troops led to increased combat readiness. But again we agreed. And another thing that we cannot know.
              1. 0
                April 4 2013
                Quote: Beck
                Made concessions to each other. And in the Czechoslovak events of NATO, troops led to increased combat readiness

                Do you yourself believe in what you wrote?
                By the way, if I'm not mistaken, then the famous 2 week and became popular after the Czechoslovak events.
                Moreover, not only the Soviet troops took part in these very events.
                wink
                1. Beck
                  -2
                  April 4 2013
                  Quote: Cynic
                  Do you yourself believe in what you wrote? By the way, if I’m not mistaken, then the famous 2 weeks became popular after the Czechoslovak events. Moreover, not only the Soviet troops took part in these very events.


                  I invented all the dates myself? Scroll through the story. And that the tanks in Berlin faced each other in 1961, there are documentary shootings both from the side of the Amers and from our side. If you want to find it.

                  Correctly, armies of five countries of the Warsaw Pact members entered Czechoslovakia. And agreed on the level of NATO and the Warsaw Pact.
                  1. 0
                    April 4 2013
                    Quote: Beck
                    I invented all the dates myself? Scroll through the story.

                    Yes, I remember it as well, somehow, which in Czechoslovakia and the participants in those events told.
                    This is the first.
                    Secondly, where on my part are the denials of these events?
                    Denial of agreements (except for the Caribbean) yes! CCCP in those days, and in fact never, was white and fluffy.
                    Do not confuse times, the 50s and 60s are not the end of the 80s, especially not the 90s.
              2. +1
                April 6 2013
                One little detail. In addition to the T-55, there were mainly T-10s. And this is the difference. But the whole "tsimus" is that the M-60 was developed in 1959, in production since July 1959, it was put into service in 1960. And they were there in 1961? The engine was heated by the M-48, but they DID NOT have adequate armor-piercing shells against the T-10. I myself read the memoirs of YOUR amersky general, who was crucifying about the real peacefulness of the staff members. They say how can we be accused of provoking the Berlin Crisis, if we didn’t have any sensible armor-piercing shells, they themselves were scared. Output. If Russia has a successor to the T-10 business, then yes, mattress toppers are very peaceful guys. And in general, the boys hurt themselves. But if not - Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, ... Nothing personal, just business. So they say YOU? hi
                1. Beck
                  0
                  April 6 2013
                  Quote: sergius60
                  One little detail. TO


                  Quite, quite as you say. I only saw a piece of 10 seconds. Our tanks are there, it seems 55, and the Amerovskiy famously drives up to the white line and brakes sharply in front of the line. And the M48 and M60 are similar, if you look briefly, because the M-60 was made with the M-48.
            2. +1
              April 4 2013
              Do you hear, "contractor", I will answer you with a saying: "Whose cow would bellow, and yours would be silent!" Because you provoke all crises, and then "negotiate". am
          3. +3
            April 4 2013
            All that you know, all that you understand, and we are sitting here and we are gaining momentary benefits ... China has Japan on its side, Vietnam, India and Amers on the other, and you tell us about the rival of the Eurases.
            1. Beck
              -1
              April 4 2013
              Quote: papik09
              Do you hear, "contractor", I will answer you with a saying: "Whose cow would bellow, and yours would be silent!" Because you provoke all crises, and then "negotiate"


              Quote: Swag
              All that you know, all that you understand, and we are sitting here and we are gaining momentary benefits ... China has Japan on its side, Vietnam, India and Amers on the other, and you tell us about the rival of the Eurases.


              You can get into a conversation, it’s even useful, but first you need to figure out how the site works. Because once you’ve figured it out, you won’t give out the mistakes that you gave out.

              Papik saw the Amerov flag and thinks that I am writing comments from America. No, to figure it out first. It’s after all on the site and further some kind of malfunctions go on and sometimes the wrong flags are posted. But Papik is no big deal, confused me alone with the State Department.

              Swag. The fact that I know everything, I didn’t say that you gave out, and that you don’t understand anything, you said about yourself, I didn’t say that. The fact that China has sideways and Japan and India is what the Eurasian should use in diplomacy against China. If we do not use China against us it will use.

              And who are we? This is the EurAsEC. This is a union, so far, of the three states of Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus. And if we are united in customs, integrate into the economy, then our political interests will be common. And China in ten years will be the main economic rival and political opponent of the Eurases.

              And the last one. Papik and Khabar, people go to the site to exchange opinions, to speak out, but here it is, one of the needs of the essence of man. And you, judging by your tone, went to swear. Who needs this? Do not want, do not read, do not agree, bring your counterarguments, do not like, pass by. And you are on the verge of swearing. So, to quarrel for this there is a bazaar, go there and go, there it’s in the order of things.
              1. +1
                April 6 2013
                Beck, I'm nuts. Why did you first have a mattress flag, and then abruptly changed to Kazakh? Are you "hypersonic" going back and forth there?
                1. Beck
                  -1
                  April 6 2013
                  Quote: sergius60
                  Beck, I'm nuts. Why did you first have a mattress flag, and then abruptly changed to Kazakh? Are you "hypersonic" going back and forth there?


                  I’m goofing myself. Dangle here at the speed of light. Tired, unbearable. But such a share I have staggering back and forth.
      2. Svarog
        +7
        April 3 2013
        Do you really think that we do not have 10 war plans for each of our "ally"?
        1. +1
          April 3 2013
          I can’t know all the plans, I’m only talking about a separate unit in Khabarovsk.
          But if, before giving away, China was building up the ground grouping, now they are reducing it and are building up the sea. A fragile world is better than a good quarrel, in which we are clearly not favorites.
        2. 0
          April 3 2013
          As reality / history of the 2-world war shows, it’s not so much so and not so good.

          In general, this time you will not have to retreat.
          1. 0
            April 3 2013
            Are we going to water the battlefields with our soldiers again? During the Second World War, there was no nuclear weapons, so 3 could not be won by anyone, alas.
            1. 0
              April 3 2013
              Quote: Phantom Revolution
              so there’s no way to win the 3rd world, alas.

              Alas, you can!
              But this is not the United States and essno NATO. Therefore, it has not yet blazed.
              bully
        3. vitya29111973
          0
          April 3 2013
          There are plans, execution will be difficult !!!!!
      3. +1
        April 4 2013
        You have a kind of captain's shoulder straps, but the questions of an ordinary recruit. Hitler, too, would first have to slam Great Britain, and he climbed into Russia, leaving strong enemies in the rear. He overestimated himself and underestimated us ... And yet, the Chinese are not warriors, they are - traders, as an example, the "flood" Arabs have the latest weapons, but which of them are warrior-shepherds of camels ... You have to believe in your country.
    2. 0
      April 6 2013
      The guys "share" the island. Helping the process is NECESSARY!
  3. Alexander-Tomsk
    +2
    April 3 2013
    As for the sale, everything is clear, not an inch to the 35 Chinese! At least until 2020.
    By the way, the article draws a paradoxical contradictory conclusion. On the one hand, experts say that the sale of such aircraft to China could trigger a new arms race in the Asia-Pacific region, on the other hand, that Russia’s customers are ending. That's the point, you can sell after 2020. China, the rest will also want to increase-upgrade their fleet, and then the export version of the t-50 being developed with India will arrive in time.
  4. 0
    April 3 2013
    I think people who decided to sell these planes are not stupid and thought about it. But it’s too early to sell the truth in the mine ...
    1. MilaPhone
      +2
      April 3 2013
      It is noteworthy that in 2008 Russia and China entered into a framework agreement on the protection of intellectual property in the field of military-technical cooperation. Nevertheless, Russia insists on concluding a separate agreement - for additional guarantees. China has not yet given a positive answer. However, even if the Chinese agree to legally enforce intellectual property rights on the Su-35, it will be practically impossible to track compliance with the agreement. And hardly anyone will sue.
      1. +1
        April 3 2013
        yeah ... Wolf promised not to climb into the shepherd! :)
  5. +4
    April 3 2013
    Deliveries of the Su-35 to China should be kindly discussed with China for 20 years and no less, and then you can sell it. You need to be friends with China! wink
  6. 0
    April 3 2013
    Export opportunities are good. But the main thing is to saturate your army with new equipment. Although, of course, the T-50 is needed than the Su-35. But he is not ready yet.
  7. +3
    April 3 2013
    "Until 2015, the Air Force will receive 48 of these fighters. The supply of the Su-35 to China is still under discussion. Not so long ago, there was information about the signing of a contract, but in the best case, new aircraft for the PLA Air Force will be assembled only in a few years." So our Air Force will receive aircraft only in a few years, and it is very possible that some of these 48 pieces will go to the Chinese. When traders rule, national interests are the fifth thing, apparently, China has accumulated technology a little more. China is not India, a very slippery and dangerous "friend" who does not hide his desire for leadership, world hegemony, does not hesitate to draw geographic maps indicating its territories to the Urals. And, in any case, first its own army, its primary armament with modern technology, and then all the others who want to buy something.
  8. +1
    April 3 2013
    Good I think if the delivery contract was actually signed, then it is not so simple! Firstly, for its Air Force, the MO ordered 48 aircraft - you will agree that there are not many for vehicles of this class !!! and the bias will be such that until our contract is completed and deliveries to China begin, the T-50 will do! The main emphasis will be placed on this aircraft under the contracts of the Russian Air Force, and, mind you, the contract with China has already been signed and must be completed and of course they will want the T-50 annette - pay for the Su-35!
  9. Indigo
    +1
    April 3 2013
    Selling - not selling ... That is the question! And I am interested in what kind of airlaid the SU-35 is a competitor in performance characteristics. The result is a gap between 4 ++ with the 5th generation (which is not only "raw" but also sick at the price per piece) and the situation in the world smells like gunpowder. I do not think that if they sell to China, the most "stuffed" to the eyeballs, they will hide something and have friends at hand .. (at least for a while) ...
    1. +2
      April 3 2013
      Well, the competitor is apparently F-22, although you only have to think about superior stealth, there’s a big question on radar, but on the maneuverability and arming the SU-35 in front (for the F-22, no long-range missiles have been made before), but no more aircraft with similar characteristics. As the pilots say, export versions of equipment always differ for the worse, from what is done for themselves. I hope this is true, but not at all fools ...
  10. 0
    April 3 2013
    And yet, he is one of the best aircraft in the world today !!! And it is up to our state to decide whether or not to sell it.
  11. Avenger711
    0
    April 3 2013
    The article turns out about nothing. On the one hand, "we cannot judge what we cannot check," and on the other, it is equally obvious that China and India have gained airplanes and will not buy more, and Chinese scrap metal is cheap.
  12. 0
    April 3 2013
    What could be the sale if such aircraft themselves are not enough.
  13. NAPOLEON
    0
    April 3 2013
    If you sell China, then the batch of aircraft should be large more than 150 so that it would be unprofitable for China to copy. Russia must accept the fact that China will overtake us technologically. It is a matter of sleep time, or without our help. we will not be able to compete take off this is obviously the only chance is cooperation let's say with India. I heard somewhere that the indie is the first in training engineers.
    1. Grishka100watt
      +2
      April 3 2013
      I think that in Russia and China, the future will go parallel in foot-or-foot, or it (the future) will not exist at all.
      1. NAPOLEON
        -3
        April 3 2013
        China does not need allies, it is self-sufficient.
        1. 0
          April 6 2013
          Allies are ALWAYS needed. It seems that the mattress and geyropu ALREADY multiplied by zero. Gee-gee ... And the Brazilian economy, by the way, is in the top ten. So before world domination, even plow like Papa Carlo.
  14. +2
    April 3 2013
    Quote: Beck

    Grisha, excuse me, of course, but you don’t pull at 100 watts. The United States, of course, this will complicate life, but so will Eurases. It’s like to club a neighbor with a club. Of course, he can drive a distant neighbor with her, but with time he can also sway at you. And if there is no club, then there will be nothing to swing.


    If a neighbor ever thinks of waving at us, he will in any case find a club.
    It is foolish to assume that if we do not sell fighters to China, it will be left without fighters.
    This is some kind of naive and childish opinion that we are selling weapons to our possible opponents in the distant future. Therefore, they say there is no need to sell.
    1. Beck
      0
      April 3 2013
      Quote: trenkkvaz
      If a neighbor ever thinks of waving at us, he will in any case find a club.


      I will not repeat myself. Before Grishin’s post, my big post is going there. There you will find my answer to this question of yours.
  15. +2
    April 3 2013
    The main trouble is that our own Air Force is 20 years old without updating.
    First you need to get enough own air force, and then you can already trade.
    But our "business masters" do not care about the interests of the Motherland.
  16. +1
    April 3 2013
    The following consideration is not taken into account in the article. The countries of Southeast Asia bought our aircraft for fear of China's growing ambitions. The appearance in China of two dozen more advanced machines will not strain them. But the start of production of a copy of the Su-35 in China will push these countries to purchase the original, since the copy is always worse and parity will be restored.
    1. +3
      April 3 2013
      Quote: Jurkovs
      The following consideration is not taken into account in the article. The countries of Southeast Asia bought our aircraft for fear of China's growing ambitions. The appearance in China of two dozen more advanced machines will not strain them. But the start of production of a Su-35 copy in China will push these countries to purchase the original, since the copy is always worse and parity will be restored

      Wrong consideration.
      1) There is no parity between the countries of Southeast Asia and China. China militarily dominates.
      2) Southeast Asian countries buy our airplanes because they are good in terms of price / quality. Nobody except us has normal airplanes at such a low price, and even will not deliver on credit
      3) China is not going to make a copy of the Su-35. It is unnecessary to them. They will copy the engine.
    2. +1
      April 6 2013
      Well done! Look at the root. Here is an example. Ukraine sold three hundred tanks to Pakistan. Hindus tensed. And they bought tens of thousands of ATGMs. Who? Of course, in Russia. We are ready to provide everyone, you tfu - sell "cure" for nervous tics.
  17. +1
    April 3 2013
    I have another question: if we sell, after what period of time can the Chinese create their clone? how much time will they need?
  18. +1
    April 3 2013
    we provide technology to China, and then later there will be an arms race between Russia and China ... even if the US suddenly disappears .. we create a headache for ourselves
  19. +7
    April 3 2013
    Dear commentators, is it not safe to drink Borzh when the kidneys have fallen off. China has two fifth-generation machines of different classes in development. And the only thing inferior to us, in metallurgy, is the backlog of engines. Let's take a sober look at what the Su-5 is in the final , a pre-production single-unit Su35UB with a wing from the Su-27KUB and engines with UVT. There is a new avionics and materiel for EDSU. If they don’t sell the litsuhu when they solve it, we’re on par with radars, even before we came to open architecture . But the main stage of stupid copying they went through and are in the stage when it is not enough to have a sample produced by yourself, you need it to have the best characteristics than a prototype. And here the path of trial and error is extremely rational, you need to improve the technology and not the product. Another thing that China never disdained all forms of espionage, the fruit of which was J-33, Well, here we ourselves were to blame for not wanting to pay salaries to people in the 11s who could sell it. Another thing is that Su -90 like fish, perishable goods, five are on the way, The Chinese want to take them, let them take them all the more since the cost of production decreases with each board sold abroad, which means that our air force is cheaper, the purchase volume is increasing. And as for the attack, it won’t attack alignment as with amers -Soviet missiles in the world will erase dust-
    1. 0
      April 6 2013
      Thank God, I waited for an adequate comment. soldier
  20. +2
    April 3 2013
    Quote: Argon
    Dear commentators, is it not safe to drink Borzh when the kidneys have fallen off. China has two fifth-generation machines of different classes in development. And the only thing inferior to us, in metallurgy, is the backlog of engines. Let's take a sober look at what the Su-5 is in the final , a pre-production single-unit Su35UB with a wing from the Su-27KUB and engines with UVT. There is a new avionics and materiel for EDSU. If they don’t sell the litsuhu when they solve it, we’re on par with radars, even before we came to open architecture .

    Everything is clear and correct. But after all, our own Air Force with a bare ass ... zey. What kind of export deliveries can we talk about when the pilots will soon have nothing to fly on?
    Quote: Argon
    The Chinese want to take it, let them take it all the more so that with each board sold abroad, the cost of production decreases, which means that our air force is cheaper, the purchase volume is increasing

    Well, they only managed to push them by dumping))
    And about the fact that our Air Force will be cheaper ... Theoretically, yes. But in practice, given our businessmen in power, this is not a fact.
    Quote: Argon
    There are new avionics and software for EMDS.

    They promised to reduce the EPR to 1 square from the nose. But this, of course, is a fairy tale.
  21. dmn2
    +1
    April 3 2013
    Quote: Beck
    But with amers, Europe can be negotiated. The period of history after the Second World War showed this.


    Hussein, Gaddafi and Milosevic denied this. It is impossible to agree with the West. They will throw as soon as it is in their interests. Infa 100%. And China understands this.
  22. Valera68
    +2
    April 3 2013
    The fact that China will take with 35 everything that they see fit and quickly implement without any problems is a fact, having all the equipment in the shops. The number of 24 or 48 aircraft is not important for them. Although they want to bend the weak or the dependent from the economy and their philosophy at least, as they have already done on deliveries of our oil from Western Siberia, China still has trouble with the engines, but it is so far. The ability to concentrate, perseverance and simply hard work together with finances give they have the opportunity to skip a lot or shame banally. They usually agree only as a plus to themselves.
  23. +2
    April 3 2013
    Quote: Beck
    And if there are no clubs, there will be nothing to threaten.

    Good evening! Nature abhors a vacuum. This is an axiom. We will not sell, the US will do it for us, or someone from NATO will shove his Eurofighter. We are not allowed to screw up the Chinese market. Selling him weapons that require service means tying Beijing to our war chariot for a long time. And to third countries, we sell MBT with slightly "different" characteristics. Nobody is going to put a mine under their side.
    China has a blue dream: "One China - one system!", Not two, as it is now. So the direction of this deal, it seems to me, is obvious.

    ,
    1. Beck
      +3
      April 3 2013
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      Good evening! Nature does not tolerate emptiness. This is an axiom. We will not sell, the United States will do it for us, or someone from NATO will shove their Eurofighter.


      Good evening. I wrote at the top. For 30 years now, the West has unshakably held an embargo on the supply of modern military equipment and the latest technology to China. Two years ago, when there was a crisis in Europe, Kitpy volunteered to pay off all debts if Europe lifted the embargo. Europe didn’t do that.
  24. savastyanov
    0
    April 3 2013
    I see no reason in selling other Russian weapons to other states ...
  25. 0
    April 4 2013
    That the "fifth column" in Russia has worked and continues to work VERY efficiently. I have read and almost all the commentators have a negative attitude to COOPERATION in the military field with China. And this position is beneficial and needed ONLY by the Americans. And they now use ALL information resources to sow DISTRIBUTION, create conditions for ENEMY, and even better to organize a CONFLICT between Russia and China. And local "smart people" enthusiastically pick up and praise this idea. Not far-sighted people and, moreover, rather REAL enemies of their country. Russia doesn't have a single real ally in the world, and it seems that something more or less is being planned, and that the mass of narrow-minded "specialists" suddenly "become obnoxious" with the sale of aircraft to China. And why these "specialists" are concerned not with what Russia will get an ally for the long term, but that this ally will be able to produce better planes than Russia. Well, it is more stupid than an argument and difficult to think of. Firstly, China itself CAN produce such aircraft. Secondly, why take offense at a neighbor if you yourself cannot do something? Who is stopping the production of aircraft better and cheaper than China? Your stupidity and stupidity? Well, take it away and no one will interfere with you.
    Third, strategic DEFENSE factories should not depend on the FOREIGN market AT ALL. NATO is both DEFENSE and STRATEGIC. And it is complete nonsense to take care of export for these enterprises. These enterprises should be fed and maintained at the highest level by LOVE, and not "worried" ah how then they will sell their planes? Their task is not to sell planes abroad, but to ARM their army with good equipment. And what and who is there and where is selling these factories should not worry at all. But the "patriots" do not understand this and are afraid of the "theft" of technologies by their ALLY.
  26. 0
    April 4 2013
    The Chinese have only one problem with cloning - engines.
    Armament, glider, electronics - all this they themselves can create and are creating.
    Why they can’t reproduce the engines, what is stopping them, one can only guess.
    Maybe Chinese students in special Engine Engineering have offloaded?
    :)
    1. Beck
      +3
      April 4 2013
      Quote: Takashi
      The Chinese have only one problem with cloning - engines. Weapons, airframes, electronics - all this they themselves can create and are creating. Why they can not reproduce the engines, what prevents them, one can only guess. Maybe Chinese students in special Engine Engineering - uploaded? :)


      This is what the glider, electronics they wanted to do by studying and imitating the Su-27 and MiG-29. And the engine will eventually be copied from the Su-35. Just as they bought one aircraft carrier "Varyag", they put it in dry dock for three years, and for these three years Chinese engineers climbed the whole ship on their knees. They measured, took samples, calculated lines of technologies unknown to them. After that two years brought "Varyag" to mind and launched. Tested, correlated with dry dock data И laid in their shipyards SEVEN aircraft carriers of the "Varyag" type, but already modernized.
    2. -1
      April 4 2013
      I think so (not to be confused with one nickname here on the forum) that they cannot accurately reproduce our heat-resistant alloys for turbine blades, combustion chambers and nozzles. Hence the small overhaul resource. Metal in China is generally r ... but, faced with the import of raw materials from there, the raw material itself is worse.
  27. 0
    April 4 2013
    I think so (not to be confused with one nickname here on the forum) that they cannot accurately reproduce our heat-resistant alloys for turbine blades, combustion chambers and nozzles. Hence the small overhaul resource. Metal in China is generally r ... but, faced with the import of raw materials from there, the raw material itself is worse.
  28. +1
    April 9 2013
    The Chinese are not fools, since they take it, it makes sense if only then it doesn’t work out sideways. Now they are white and fluffy and tomorrow they will make territorial claims. They will buy 10 pieces and they will not be the first to engage in scammers.

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