Military Review

Got it ... What did the multi-vector nature of Ukraine lead to?

354
Got it ... What did the multi-vector nature of Ukraine lead to? Despite the tremendous efforts that the Ukrainian government is spending to enlist the support of both the West and Russia, the country's uncertain position has already begun to annoy not only its neighbors, but also Brussels. And about this the Ukrainian authorities have already put before the fact those and others. At the same time, in words, Ukraine seems to have decided how long ago it was to make a choice: European integration is a priority in the state’s foreign policy.


Nevertheless, despite this, the signing of the Association Agreement with the European Union is still a big question. And the reason is not only the “lack of democracy and the imperfection of the judicial system,” but also Kiev’s desire to find an acceptable format of relations with the member countries of the Customs Union. All this in the end could not but lead to the fact that the country was practically in international diplomatic and political isolation. At least, this is what the report deals with, which was prepared by experts of the Center for System Analysis and Programming (Kiev). According to the authors of the report, something similar could be observed not only during the years of the presidency of V. Yushchenko, but after a year of being in power of V. Yanukovich. At the same time every year the situation becomes more and more complicated, and isolation becomes denser.

Both Russia and the EU no longer consider themselves bound by any diplomatic norms, so most official meetings with the Ukrainian authorities were more like a stern reprimand than a conversation of equal partners, the authors say. Rostislav Ischenko, the director of the Center, is convinced that such a deplorable state of perception of the Ukrainian state in the world was caused primarily by the wrong foreign policy course, which was conducted by the political leadership. Its essence was to make every effort and return to the implementation of the theory of multi-vector. But this is currently not possible. Recall that America considered the Ukrainian multi-vector approach unacceptable for itself at the beginning of a new century. It was then, Ischenko is sure, that measures were taken that led to a change of government (it is worth recalling the scandalously well-known films of Major Melnichenko, the case of journalist G. Gongadze, the Украина Ukraine without Kuchma ’action and the orange revolution that followed). After all these events, Russia also considered that the Ukrainian multi-vector approach could not be beneficial for it.

All this ultimately led to the fact that at present pressure on the Ukrainian government is being carried out from two sides. But the situation is complicated by the fact that the Ukrainian state will not last long without external cash injections. This is evidenced by the director of the Institute of CIS countries in Ukraine V. Kornilov. He is sure that a return to multi-vector policy is impossible, but for some reason this does not occur to those politicians who are pursuing the country's foreign policy. The expert also believes that Ukraine should refuse to integrate with the European Union as soon as possible, because the country's population doesn’t even imagine about the negative consequences for the country on the implementation of the Association agreement (if this comes to that). None of the Ukrainians in detail is not familiar with this document. Meanwhile, the analysts of the Institute analyzed it in detail, and came to the conclusion that this is a program of de-industrialization of the country. The implementation of the program, according to Kornilov, will lead to a humanitarian and social catastrophe. To avoid this, the Ukrainian government has only one way out - to integrate into the Customs Union. And the sooner this is done, the better for the state. Kiev doesn’t have much time, exactly as much as Moscow and Brussels can afford to wait for the change of power in Ukraine. At the same time, the expert notes that both the European Union and America are quite satisfied with this state of affairs, since they are confident that the next time, Russophobes will come to power in Ukraine. The positions of both Yanukovich himself and his party have become very weak lately, and no other political force of the same direction capable of replacing them exists. At the same time, the uncertain position of the Ukrainian authorities is also to the advantage of Russia, because the longer Kiev will refuse to join the Customs Union, the more it will destroy the country's economy. Thus, the political force, which has replaced the current government, will get an inefficient state that is practically on the verge of bankruptcy. Therefore, in the future, Ukraine will not have much choice: either to join the Customs Union, or to plunge into civil war. Moreover, according to Konovalov, after such upheavals, Ukraine simply will not be able to recover as an independent state, so it may well become part of Russia. In addition, the choice in favor of the Eurasian Union can help Viktor Yanukovych to remain in power after the new presidential election of the 2015 of the year.

Some experts go even further in their predictions. They say that, in the end, Russia and the West may well come to the conclusion that Ukraine only hinders the development of their relations, which will further aggravate its isolation. Therefore, it is not at all clear what motives lead them in constant maneuvering between the benefit from the EU and no less benefit from Russia. One thing is clear: none of these motives bears any real benefit either to the political leadership or to the country as a whole.

On the one hand, it is completely obvious that the Ukrainian leadership is trying to prove that it can create problems for its northern neighbor, but at the same time it does not think that achieving such goals is possible only by creating problems for the West. On the other hand, the Ukrainian authorities have already shown that the problem of gas supplies to Europe depends not only on Russia, but also on Ukraine, obviously trying to prove by this that Europe has to reckon with Ukraine to the same extent as it does with Russia. But in practice, Kiev proved only that Ukraine as an independent state is for Europe an extra link in the chain of providing it with blue fuel, another problem.

Thus, the behavior of Ukraine in the international arena, on the one hand, became a kind of catalyst for political elites in search of alternative gas supply routes. On the other hand, these same political elites are beginning to suggest that instead of an independent Ukraine as a buffer between the EU and Russia, it would be better to have common borders ...

At first glance it may seem that there are no special problems with this - you just need to include Ukraine in the EU. But in reality, the European Parliament is not very keen to do this, because such a decision is not a way out. Rather, it is the emergence of a new problem, due to the inconsistency and inadequacy of the Ukrainian political elite. Generally speaking, the behavior of the Ukrainian authorities was perceived by the West as normal as long as he was confident that Kiev would create problems exclusively for Russia. When it turned out that the Ukrainian authorities did not intend to dwell on this, and threatened European comfort (which had become a common regional idea), their attitude towards them changed dramatically.

Therefore, it is possible that in the near future many will begin to wonder: why is an independent Ukraine needed? And then it remains either to create a capable leadership in the country that will know exactly what is best for the state, or joint international control will be established over the Ukrainian state, or the control of certain countries over some historical Ukrainian regions ...

Against the background of the above, the Ukrainian authorities have one way out - to go for integration with Moscow, especially since the majority of the population supports such a course of the country. And it seems to be a matter of getting off the ground. At least, the Ukrainian Prime Minister N. Azarov told 19 in March of this year that the Ukrainian government is negotiating, the purpose of which is to obtain observer status in the Eurasian Union. In addition, the press reported that the working groups of the two countries agreed on the associate membership of Ukraine in the Customs Union. However, D. Medvedev to some extent refuted this information, stating that the Ukrainian representatives like to talk about joining the “three plus one” very much. But in practice, nothing of the kind can happen: observation means observation, full membership means ratification of all necessary documents.

At the same time, experts are confident that Russia will not receive any benefit from Ukraine’s membership in the CU. Neither Russia nor the other members of the Union are interested in granting any preferences to Ukraine. Therefore, if associated membership takes place, it will be purely formal.

According to political analyst Pavel Svetenikov, it is Ukraine that is the key state in terms of creating an integration group in the post-Soviet space. And if in the future there will be an economic or political union between Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, then we can safely talk about the emergence of a large European center, an alternative to the European Union.

Materials used:
http://www.pravda.ru/world/formerussr/ukraine/25-03-2013/1149768-ukrain-0/
http://www.km.ru/world/2013/03/25/vnutripoliticheskaya-situatsiya-na-ukraine/706812-net-ukrainy-net-problem
http://www.regnum.ru/news/polit/1640288.html
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  1. Phantom Revolution
    Phantom Revolution April 3 2013 08: 19 New
    44
    Ukraine is now like Libya from the time of Gaddafi, both ours and yours, but countries are always like girls, they love the bad guys who will definitely use them and leave them.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. April 3 2013 08: 39 New
      +1
      What is the point of pulling Ukraine? Are there any versions?

      "И Россия, и ЕС больше не считают себя связанными какими бы то ни было дипломатическими нормами" - вот с чего это автор взял (про Россию)?
      1. SCS
        SCS April 3 2013 08: 46 New
        40
        -"Вместе с тем, России неопределенная позиция украинских властей также на руку, потому как чем дольше Киев будет отказываться от вступления в Таможенный Союз, тем больше он тем самым будет разрушать экономику страны. Таким образом, политсиле, пришедшей на смену сегодняшнему правительству, достанется малоэффективное государство, находящееся практически на грани банкротства. Поэтому и в дальнейшем у Украины особого выбора не будет: либо присоединиться к Таможенному Союзу, либо окунуться в гражданскую войну."
        ---
        this idea is not clear! Ukraine is called into an alliance on equal terms now with a vibrant economy! according to the author, Russia is sleeping and sees how to grab yourself Ukraine .... fool we must unite voluntarily and together build a bright future and ensure shared security hi !!!!!!!
        1. ars_pro
          ars_pro April 3 2013 09: 40 New
          36
          I agree with you on all points and I am sure that not only me, but also 75% of Ukrainians, the question is whether the Ukrainian authorities understand this?
          1. revnagan
            revnagan April 3 2013 13: 05 New
            22
            Quote: ars_pro
            I agree with you on all points and I am sure that not only me, but also 75% of Ukrainians, the question is whether the Ukrainian authorities understand this?

            The authorities of Ukraine are not organized in the same way as the citizens of Ukraine. Citizens think with what? Correctly, with their heads. And the authorities? No, not even with the place you thought about. The authorities of Ukraine think ... with a wallet. When you enter the TS, their wallet will have to be narrowed down. That's why them a heartpoint is compressed.
            PS Dear moderators, please change my flag to Ukrainian. I am a citizen of Ukraine, Russian by nationality.
            1. sashka
              sashka April 5 2013 06: 07 New
              +3
              Quote: revnagan
              change my flag to Ukrainian

              Поменяйте в браузере "город". Всё станет нормально.
          2. Storyteller
            Storyteller April 3 2013 19: 39 New
            +8
            It is unclear how these 75% of Ukrainians at the right time manage to choose those who steer in the wrong direction in the leadership?
            1. Corneli
              Corneli April 3 2013 21: 05 New
              24
              Quote: Storyteller
              It is unclear how these 75% of Ukrainians at the right time manage to choose those who steer in the wrong direction in the leadership?

              And who to choose?
              1. Julia? - ATP, hi sits where he sits.
              2. Yatsenyuk? - what for this Jew is necessary here
              3. Tyagniboka - think yourself voiced)
              4. Klitschko - it’s better to do boxing ... he writes books there, trains children
              5. Симоненко - кому нужны "нео-комунисты"?
              6. So they chose .... a batch of oligarchs, again remembering that with Kuchma it was not so bad (
              1. alex13-61
                alex13-61 April 7 2013 13: 15 New
                +3
                Даа...государственниками у нас и не пахнет...Как дорвутся до "корыта"...и бегом хлебать, пока есть возможность...менталитет, наверное, такой...
                1. Deniska
                  Deniska April 9 2013 12: 25 New
                  +3
                  Do not worry, we, too, are not elected representatives of the country rule))) Only our trough more !!!
            2. evgenm55
              evgenm55 April 8 2013 07: 50 New
              +4
              And how do 86% of us manage to constantly choose the same asshole?
          3. sashka
            sashka April 5 2013 06: 04 New
            0
            Quote: ars_pro
            the question is do ukrainian authorities understand this

            Well, these 25% of the remaining percentages will tell and show how and where to go ..
          4. Val_y
            Val_y April 8 2013 14: 28 New
            +2
            So that’s the point, and in Europe, it’s sissy, and in the TS, too (oligarchs are there a help and a little poorer) that’s why they jump. Firing remains less and less (at first it’s state mine, then people, now each other, and transit gas). Eh, to shoot through one indiscriminately on the tails-eagle: deputies, the government, oligarchs, in general, the elites, the rest would have thought.
            1. Deniska
              Deniska April 9 2013 12: 27 New
              0
              duck their children have grown up)))
              1. shark
                shark April 9 2013 14: 01 New
                +1
                Here it seems to me that the main problem is that a new generation has grown up, purely independent, Ukrainians. For most of them, Russia is the name of a neighboring state, not a common homeland. And with each generation the chance for our unification will melt.
                And secondly, we often nod towards Ukrainian politicians (quite deservedly IMHO), but the behavior of our politicians and oligarchs is often perplexing, as if people forgot that there is also a carrot besides the whip, especially to the fraternal people. (Bender is not account, this only AKM))))))
                1. El13
                  El13 April 10 2013 18: 12 New
                  0
                  Нет, пряником сейчас нельзя, а то по новой пойдёт колебание "туда или сюда", а сейчас прижали так, что определятся уже пора, не, пряник сейчас не можно...
                  And about the generation ... remember the FRG and the GDR ...
        2. Rats
          Rats April 7 2013 19: 26 New
          0
          Я с вами согласен, но по некоторым причинам у меня уже аллергия на фразы вроде "светлое будущее". Слишком много ей кормилили, а "будущее" так и оставалось будущим.
      2. Phantom Revolution
        Phantom Revolution April 3 2013 09: 09 New
        +9
        Quote: Nikolay S.
        What is the point of pulling Ukraine? Are there any versions?

        "И Россия, и ЕС больше не считают себя связанными какими бы то ни было дипломатическими нормами" - вот с чего это автор взял (про Россию)?

        I think there are more politicians here, they are looking for benefits for themselves in the first place, who will give more, with those and friends, people are in last place. Alas.
        1. andrejwz
          andrejwz April 3 2013 10: 10 New
          +4
          Quote: Phantom Revolution
          more politicians are looking for benefits for themselves in the first place, whoever gives more will be friends with those

          Проблемма этих больших украинских политиканов в том, что они никак не хзотят понимать, что давать просто так, уже никто не собирается. Это как у игромана: "Ну, должно же мне когда нибудь повезти!..."
        2. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz April 3 2013 10: 18 New
          +9
          Quote: Phantom Revolution
          I think there are more politicians here, they are looking for benefits for themselves in the first place, who will give more, with those and friends, people are in last place. Alas.

          Exactly the same situation in Russia.
          1. Phantom Revolution
            Phantom Revolution April 3 2013 16: 03 New
            +4
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            Exactly the same situation in Russia.

            Of course, the family is not without a freak. Especially in such an apparatus.
      3. to water
        to water April 3 2013 09: 55 New
        13
        Yes, already tired of how ... a ram in an ice hole dangles from one edge to another. Do they really not understand that the conditions of the European Union are a regression of the state and a degradation of society, no one will grow their competitors in the market? A great example is the Baltic states.
      4. starshina78
        starshina78 April 3 2013 20: 00 New
        +3
        С того , что уже в открытую на ТВ появились репортажи ( " Субботние Вести " на канале " Россия " ) , в которых ведущий Брилев так отчитал Януковича , явно видно , что дана команда " Фас " на то , чтобы дать знать украинскому руководству знак - Россия больше не может ждать . Или сейчас , или никогда .
        1. vyatom
          vyatom April 5 2013 13: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: starshina78
          того , что уже в открытую на ТВ появились репортажи ( " Субботние Вести " на канале " Россия " ) , в которых ведущий Брилев так отчитал Януковича , явно видно , что дана команда " Фас " на то , чтобы дать знать украинскому руководству знак - Россия больше не может ждать . Или сейчас , или никогда .


          Yanukovych gives the impression of a somewhat narrow-minded person. Neither fish nor fowl. Therefore, Ukraine hangs like an organics in an ice hole.
      5. Hunghuz
        Hunghuz April 5 2013 16: 28 New
        +1
        hi In Ukraine, there was a normal gas transportation system, but we were left with a gas pipe, without pennies, a demon moss ........ ??? If only to drive into Africa Svidomo, nezalezhnosti and independence ........?
        1. Quiet
          Quiet April 7 2013 09: 19 New
          0
          In Ukraine ???????

          Maybe in Ukraine ?? hi
    2. vadimus
      vadimus April 3 2013 10: 21 New
      +6
      The agony of political power. On two chairs, of course, it’s comfortable to sit, but for the time being. The real owner of the chair will come and .... It's time to decide where it is more convenient to sit ..
      1. Gari
        Gari April 3 2013 11: 13 New
        41
        I remember when the Union collapsed, we thought it would be better than anyone in Ukraine, they say the ports on the Black Sea and the Black Sea Shipping Company, with the Azov Shipping Company (AMP) and the Soviet Danube Shipping Company,
        The NMP included 234 freight, passenger and other classes of ships with a total deadweight of 4167 thousand tons, most of which was operational. ChMP ended 1991 with a profit of 270 million rubles and foreign exchange earnings of 788 million dollars.
        and well, they already wrote about the Black Sea Fleet, but how many Armaments
        In the 1991 year, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine inherited the most powerful military unit in Europe. It included:
        - 4 military armies;
        - 1 tank army;
        - 1 Army Corps;
        - 3 air defense corps;
        - 43 th rocket army;
        - heavy strategic bomber aviation, etc.
        The number of troops of this group was almost 1 million people. The armament of this formation consisted of:
        - tanks - about 9 thousands;
        - armored vehicles - 11 thousand;
        - artillery systems - 18 thousands;
        - airplanes and helicopters - around 3900;
        - intercontinental ballistic missiles with their strategic warheads - 176 missiles;
        - Separately operational tactical and tactical nuclear warheads - 2883 units.
        In addition, strategic military bases and warehouses as an emergency reserve, designed to mobilize 10 (ten!) Million people (i.e. at least 5 (five!) Fronts) in the event of an enemy attack, stored weapons, military equipment, food, ammunition and other military equipment - according to foreign experts - on 89 (eighty-nine!) billions of US dollars.
        working factories, factories, collective farms, state farms
        coal, at the time of the collapse of the USSR (1990-1991), the mineral resource complex of Ukraine provided 23-25% of GDP. With the extraction and use of minerals, 48% of the industrial potential of Ukraine and up to 20% of its labor resources were connected.
        common border with to Europe where is all why it happened so Ukraine now should have been one of the most prosperous and richest countries and our Union and generally global level
        1. ughhh
          ughhh April 3 2013 13: 00 New
          +8
          the girls are good there, I trudge ..
          1. Black
            Black April 3 2013 17: 24 New
            +5
            Quote: ughhh
            the girls are good there, I trudge ..

            ... the girls are good everywhere .... the women where the shitty come from ...
            Quote: Gari
            thought the best will be in Ukraine

            Ukraine itself is like that girl .....
            1. timurpl
              timurpl April 4 2013 16: 10 New
              0
              Quote: Chen
              Ukraine itself is like that girl .....

              ...и сало съесть и на "качели" сесть!
        2. TRex
          TRex April 3 2013 14: 17 New
          16
          And I remember very well how the first president of the independent by the name of Kravchuk, with a raunchy smile on his lips, gleaming with glasses, promised to feed Russia with bacon, sugar, butter, meat ... And where is it all? For some reason, at one time, even sugar in Russia was cheaper than in Ukraine ... Why did the country's population decline by several million? The answer on the surface: the damned m-o-s-k-a-l-and are to blame ...
        3. karbofos
          karbofos April 3 2013 16: 01 New
          +7
          but now the Europeans are almost, current z.o.p.a naked
        4. morpex
          morpex April 3 2013 22: 18 New
          18
          Quote: Gari
          Ukraine now should have been one of the most prosperous and richest countries, both our Union and generally global level.

          Probably we inherited the most advanced and unprincipled thieves in the world. Led by the CHIEF DEMAGUS COM PARTY KRAVCHUK! To plunder all this wealth here, one skill is not enough ... Here you need to have talent! The paradox is that ordinary Ukrainians didn’t even get crumbs from this wealth ....
          Although .... you have the same crap in last ...
          1. Garrin
            Garrin April 3 2013 22: 26 New
            +7
            Quote: morpex

            Probably we inherited the most advanced and unprincipled thieves in the world. Led by the CHIEF DEMAGUS COM PARTY KRAVCHUK! To plunder all this wealth here, one skill is not enough ... Here you need to have talent! The paradox is that ordinary Ukrainians didn’t even get crumbs from this wealth ....
            Although .... you have the same crap in last ...

            Do not add, do not diminish. All right, unfortunately
          2. Gari
            Gari April 3 2013 23: 11 New
            +8
            Quote: morpex
            Probably we inherited the most advanced and unprincipled thieves in the world.

            You do not have to worry, in my opinion, then we all got these, you will not envy anyone colleague
          3. rolik
            rolik April 3 2013 23: 27 New
            +7
            Quote: morpex
            Although .... you have the same crap in last ..

            You know, we managed to slow down in time .... about the same way about 9 years ago. And the uncontrolled descent of Ukraine into tartarar continues with increasing acceleration.
            1. morpex
              morpex April 4 2013 00: 23 New
              +6
              Quote: rolik
              And the uncontrolled descent of Ukraine into tartarar continues with increasing acceleration.

              Это ,как бы точнее сказать,крутое пике , переходящее в штопор...Но оно судя по "умному выражению морды лица" нашего президента -контролируется!
            2. morpex
              morpex April 4 2013 00: 34 New
              -4
              Quote: rolik
              You know, we managed to slow down in time ..

              Да .Есть немного...Притормозили..Но по моему тормозные диски слабоваты.....Не в обиду , но проблем у вас тоже хватает.А правительство решает прежде всего свои . Будь тормоза у вас хорошие , уже бы давным давно сидели бы всякого рода чубайсы и сердюковых в помине бы не было..." Нет ребята все не так , все не так ребята..."как Семеныч пел...И с ТС этим тоже , что то не так.Что то нам не договаривают. Главного не договаривают...Все таки Путин его делает под себя, под свои интересы...И тут уж сколько кто себе вырвет кусочка пирога.Видать нашему Витьку маловато будет..Но ниче.Как то сторгуются.Ворон ворону.......
              1. CTEPX
                CTEPX April 8 2013 05: 35 New
                +2
                Quote: morpex
                . Somehow bargain. Raven crow .......


                No, do not bargain)). Russia decided on an independent game, i.e. put on its preservation as a state, means victory. Yanyk plays on the other hand - the collapse of both Russia and Ukraine. Therefore - do not bargain)).
                1. CTEPX
                  CTEPX April 8 2013 06: 34 New
                  0
                  Moreover, Yanyk is not a player, but rather, peek at the map, divert attention ...
          4. evgenm55
            evgenm55 April 8 2013 07: 56 New
            0
            That's for sure.
        5. rolik
          rolik April 3 2013 23: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Gari
          In addition, strategic military bases and warehouses as an emergency reserve, designed to mobilize 10 (ten!) Million people (i.e. at least 5 (five!) Fronts) in the event of an enemy attack, stored weapons, military equipment, food, ammunition and other military equipment - according to foreign experts - on 89 (eighty-nine!) billions of US dollars.

          После прочтения этой информации, вспоминается фильм с Кейджем " Оружейный барон", вот собственно и все объяснение былой мощи Украины.
          So worthlessly fooling such an inheritance, it is necessary to try.
          1. opkozak
            opkozak April 3 2013 23: 39 New
            +5
            Quote: rolik
            So worthlessly fooling such an inheritance, it is necessary to try.

            Че ж бездарно. У вас в России такого наверное не было, что-бы "из грязи в князи" поднялся начальник автобазы - в президенты, любитель футбола получивший известность в середине 1990-х годов после того, как он сменил на посту президента футбольного клуба «Шахтёр» Ахатя Брагина, погибшего в результате взрыва на стадионе «Шахтёр» в Донецке 15 октября 1995 года - в суперолигархи (26 место в мире с 24.5 млрд$.по версии Bloomberg, все российские). Ахметов поднялся с 38-го на 26-е место, вновь опередив of all Russian billionaires: самый богатый из них - владелец "МегаФона" Алишер Усманова – оказался на 36 строчке с состоянием в 19,8 миллиарда долларов.

            And many, many more examples.
            And no one will say nonewhy Kuchma surrendered so easily (without war), and Yushchenko followed him (lasted up to a year).
        6. Quiet
          Quiet April 7 2013 09: 40 New
          0
          - 4 military armies;
          - 1 tank army;
          - 1 Army Corps;
          - 3 air defense corps;
          - 43 th rocket army;
          - heavy strategic bomber aviation, etc.
          The number of troops in this group was almost 1 million


          You forgot that the military personnel from all over the USSR served in this group, this group was financed from the Union budget !!! hi . И как только СССР распался все разъехались по домам , денежный поток прекратился а бюджет Украины при попытке содержать такое количество ( даже на консервации ) военной техники мог накрыться медным тазом. Да и содержать под ружьём 1 мил. солдат для неё проблемно... Интересно , сколько сейчас Украина в состоянии по мобилизации поставить "под ружьё "
        7. Quiet
          Quiet April 7 2013 09: 43 New
          +4
          - 4 military armies;
          - 1 tank army;
          - 1 Army Corps;
          - 3 air defense corps;
          - 43 th rocket army;
          - heavy strategic bomber aviation, etc.
          The number of troops in this group was almost 1 million



          You forgot that the military personnel from all over the USSR served in this group, this group was financed from the Union budget !!! hi . И как только СССР распался все разъехались по домам , денежный поток прекратился а бюджет Украины при попытке содержать такое количество ( даже на консервации ) военной техники мог накрыться медным тазом. Да и содержать под ружьём 1 мил. солдат для неё проблемно... Интересно , сколько сейчас Украина в состоянии по мобилизации поставить "под ружьё "???
          1. Egoza
            Egoza April 7 2013 17: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Quiet
            Интересно , сколько сейчас Украина в состоянии по мобилизации поставить "под ружьё "???
            Не могу сказать точно "на случай мобилизации", но в предпоследний весенний призыв (последний будет осенью) - планируется набрать 13.900 человек, это на все Вооруженные силы + Внутренние войска + гос.спец.службу транспорта. В десантные войска и ВМС призывать не будут - там контрактники. Для сравнения, весной 2012 года было призвано 21400 человек.
          2. Ilya Kovalenko
            Ilya Kovalenko April 13 2013 07: 08 New
            0
            Mobilization reserve (approximately) 1 000 000 people + active troops
            184 people + militias 000 people, total 79 people
            If I am not mistaken.
        8. Deniska
          Deniska April 9 2013 12: 30 New
          -1
          I think you need to look at the root and think about where it's all from them)))
    3. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg April 3 2013 11: 04 New
      +8
      Nenado confuse the northern coast of the Black Sea with the southern coast of the Arctic Ocean. I agree with water and land in both cases, but there are nuances. Gaddafi did not flirt with the amers, with him Libya was a country. Nobody could use it for which they killed him.
    4. NKVD
      NKVD April 3 2013 11: 15 New
      +7
      You can’t sit on two chairs, the buttocks will be scattered and the ass will crack ....
    5. anton107798
      anton107798 April 3 2013 18: 36 New
      -15
      How I like to read Russian articles! It seems to be accused of all mortal sins, but at the end of the article they nevertheless make an innocent appearance and say, all problems should be solved only by reaching out to Moscow!
      And most importantly, there are naive sdes who are sure that it will be so, and more Russians who believe ... it’s ridiculous as it is)))
      I have one friend, from Belgorod himself, who works and lives in Kharkov. Always with foam at the mouth proves how cool it is to live in Russia, but on a polite promise to go there to live .... HOP !!! and the desire to go disappears! And it is not a sad majority of those Ukrainians who write here-such political prostitutes, he writes one thing, but in fact he doesn’t do anything further than scribbling.
      don’t you all think that we are opposed to unification with Europe, but they are simply jamming us and not letting us say a word? At my workplace, the team has about a hundred people, including about a dozen Russians ... the rest are for an alliance with Europe! and so everywhere and everywhere!
      Yes, there is a percentage of people who cannot imagine themselves without Russia ... But they are negligible. compared to those who want to live without joining any unions. Especially youth.
      1. illarion
        illarion April 3 2013 19: 02 New
        15
        Yes, live wherever you want. Do not want to go to Russia, go to Europe. There you are definitely waiting with hugs after Romanians and Bulgarians)). Only then do not be offended: if you join NATO (and do not accept NATO without the EU), then Russia will look through the scope already. And how would you like ?!
        1. opkozak
          opkozak April 3 2013 22: 25 New
          -14
          Quote: illarion
          Yes, live wherever you want.

          Thank you dear Mr. for the generous permission to live at home. Zlata legs kissing our benefactor. savior and lord ...
          1. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 4 2013 04: 09 New
            +8
            Quote: opkozak
            Thank you dear Mr. for the generous permission to live at home.

            Please! hi Already got nezalezhniki fucking negative When will you finally understand that you want to live the way you want, and ours and yours and the EU and cheap gas will not work for you? Just because we and Europe have completely different interests and letting you live as you want to the detriment of your interests reason Want to geyropu? a flag in your hands and a drum on your neck You’ll find a place in the convoy yourself Only in this case you become for us an ordinary European country with a visa regime and other pleasures Good luck fool
            1. Yen
              Yen April 7 2013 09: 02 New
              +4
              Пойдут за Еврпой,будут очередным "расходным материалом".ЕС с украинцами ничего не связывает.Они просто ликвидируют нашего возможного союзника,что бы Россия одна осталась.А у нас с Украиной общее прошлое,национальное,начиная с Руси Великой.Только вот русские это признают,и хоть какое-то,даже слабенькое родство чувствуют,а вот по украинцам не заметно.Такое чувство складывается,что Украина как шестерка.Ничего личного,я по делам их правительства сужу.А нет что бы вместе союз сколотить,надо воевать,обс*рать друг друга.Как все это еще не надоело всем кто в этом участвует.
        2. 30143
          30143 April 4 2013 00: 39 New
          +4
          Be more tolerant. Indeed, after the collapse of the USSR and the departure of Jews from Ukraine, many received command posts when they were at the feeding trough. Therefore, they are afraid to unite with Russia, but they did not realize that the European Union would have Ukraine and leave only ruins. After all, I can turn the view 180 degrees, what do you say, if I start to argue that the leadership of the Russian Federation is not far-sighted, since it went to the collapse of the country. And gas prices are against ordinary Ukrainians! In how.
          But nothing will come of the Civil War, don’t even dream !!!
          This people suffered so much grief and adversity that it will survive the blue-white and orange and brown.
          Oppose, gentlemen
          1. sergey700
            sergey700 April 5 2013 14: 02 New
            +1
            even at the expense of the war, I’m unsure, they will nationalize access to natural resources (because there’s nothing more), you want to say they will give it just like that .. it’s a shame another thing, in the Ukraine-Russia problem, it’s just that the blankets are tugged constructive dialogue..
      2. xan
        xan April 3 2013 19: 08 New
        +6
        Quote: anton107798
        Yes, there is a percentage of people who cannot imagine themselves without Russia ... But they are negligible. compared to those who want to live without joining any unions. Especially youth.

        let the youth grow up and figure out how to make money, not grind it with your tongue.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza April 3 2013 20: 42 New
          10
          Quote: xan
          let the youth grow up and figure out how to make money, not grind it with your tongue.

          Сумма переводов "заробитчан" в Украину превысила вложения иностранных инвесторов
          The volume of private remittances from abroad to Ukraine in 2012 increased by 7,2%, although its ratio to GDP remained unchanged. Such data was published by the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU)
          As remuneration for Ukrainians working abroad, in 2012, Ukraine received $ 4,6 billion (14,8% more than in 2011). On the contrary, transfers in the form of private transfers decreased by 3% and amounted to $ 2,9 billion.
          More than 70% of transfers were made from seven countries. Russia remained the leader in terms of cash flows to Ukraine ($ 2,3 billion, or 18,2% more compared to the 2011 year).
          In the 2012 year, the CIS countries accounted for 40,1% of the volume of money transfers from abroad. 34,9% of the total volume of money transfers ($ 2,3 billion) came from EU countries, which is 4,7% less than in the previous year.
          From other countries of the world, the largest number of transfers came from the USA and Germany - 9,3% and 6,2%, respectively.
          http://polemika.com.ua/news-114364.html#title
          xxxxxx
          Young people do not read with us and do not work with our heads. But there is something to think about for those who are going to Europe for grandmas!
      3. Egoza
        Egoza April 3 2013 19: 16 New
        21
        Quote: anton107798
        and on a polite promise to go there to live .... HOP !!! and the desire to go disappears!

        1. А Вы считаете, что эти люди должны уезжать с земли, которую они защищали от фашистов, которую поднимали после войны, отдали свой труд, знания и умения, для того, чтоб вы сейчас "успешно" жили? А теперь вы плюете в них и заявляете - "Езжайте отсюда!"
        2. "За союз с Европой, особенно молодежь" - а чем они собираются себе на жизнь зарабатывать в "союзе с Европой"? О квотах на профессии и деятельность они слыхали? А ведь придется подчиняться!
        Мне ЖАЛЬ ВАС! Вы готовы продать свою страну и свой народ за европейские подачки. Вы и мать собственную продадите ради выгоды и собственной "счастливой жизни". Только жизнь штука сложная, и таких самоуверенных и наглых она учит очень просто - мордой о стол! Запишите это себе, а лет через 5 - посмотрите на запись своего поста и мой ответ!.
        1. anton107798
          anton107798 April 3 2013 19: 40 New
          -22
          mother then what? you are talking nonsense! think with your head
          1. Egoza
            Egoza April 3 2013 20: 44 New
            19
            Quote: anton107798
            you are talking nonsense! think with your head

            Не хамите, "деточка"! Я с вами на брудершафт не пила (да и побрезговала бы, честно говоря)
            1. rolik
              rolik April 3 2013 23: 35 New
              +1
              Quote: Egoza
              Не хамите, "деточка

              As for the children, it was noticed correctly))))))) This individual writes with a high calm))))
            2. anton107798
              anton107798 April 3 2013 23: 46 New
              -11
              not yet mature enough to call a baby! girl
            3. 30143
              30143 April 4 2013 00: 41 New
              -7
              But you won’t fight.
          2. Tersky
            Tersky April 3 2013 21: 19 New
            13
            Quote: anton107798
            you are talking nonsense!

            You stated nonsense in your post above about your countrymen, calling them political prostitutes. Only you obviously lost the coast, they did not sell the centuries-old values ​​of Slavic unity, but you and those like you sold them. So who are political prostitutes?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac April 4 2013 16: 49 New
              0
              You all ............, some interjections, in vain you defend Egoza. We’ll see how you sing when they begin to persuade your mothers here on the forum, for this you immediately need to sculpt BAN for life.
              1. CTEPX
                CTEPX April 8 2013 06: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Egoza
                ! Вы готовы продать свою страну и свой народ за европейские подачки. Вы и мать собственную продадите ради выгоды и собственной "счастливой жизни".


                It’s harsh, of course, in relation to Anton ... But they don’t bow MOM)). here it seemed to you)).

                Quote: anton107798
                on a polite promise to go live there .... HOP !!! and the desire to go disappears! And sadly, most of those Ukrainians who write here are such political prostitutes


                It will be abruptly ... promise.
      4. Misantrop
        Misantrop April 3 2013 19: 50 New
        26
        Quote: anton107798
        At my workplace, the team has about a hundred people, including about a dozen Russians ... the rest are for an alliance with Europe!

        Allies, damn it. And they asked in advance, the products Your his enterprises will pass European certification? Or have to close? And what about the allotted quota? Forever such tourism is confused with emigration (as in that joke), and then howl
        1. sincman
          sincman April 3 2013 23: 09 New
          15
          Ничему народ жизнь не учит...С такими же мыслями их родители, а может и они сами с большими надеждами на манну небесную, евроремонты и евростандарты с легкостью позволили развалиться нашей общей великой родине - СССР. Теперь вот не задумываясь о последствиях, сломя голову бросаются в новый омут с головой. При этом глаза их отказываются видеть, а уши слышать о том, что Европа уже не та что была раньше...Полнейшее моральное, экономическое, политическое разложение начинает разъедать некогда мощный европейский организм. Очевидное разделение на государства хозяева и государства холопы их абсолютно не смущает. Неужели кто-то надеется, что в Европе несамостоятельная Украина не повторит судьбу Греции или Кипра?! Если даже Испания, Италия и Португалия находятся на грани банкротства. Одно радует, что население Украины состоит не только из недальновидных протоукров, кричащих во все горло о независимости и готовых свою мнимую "независимость" без боя и с удовольствием отдать европейским чиновникам-сатанистам. Есть еще и люди осознающие ответственность за будущее своих детей...и усвоивших ошибки своих родителей.
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 23: 23 New
            +7
            One of that huge list of the future in the EU is the juvenile justice that Russia is now trying to impose.
        2. anton107798
          anton107798 April 3 2013 23: 53 New
          -9
          my enterprise worked with the American company PROKTOR EN GEMBL, with the French when building a new sarcophagus over the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, and also built Great Russia which has everything except specialists in building enterprises, in Chelyabinsk gas ducts for the metallurgical enterprise, and we built from SIEMENS VAI. ..so be silent in a rag if you don’t know the aspects!
          But you still find what to answer, because how can I agree!
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop April 4 2013 00: 12 New
            13
            "РАФ", "ВЭФ" - знакомые названия? Их продукция по планете тоже спросом пользовалась. Поинтересуйтесь у друзей-прибалтов судьбой этих неслабых концернов после присоединения к Европе... Конкуренты НИКОМУ не нужны. Россия - да, приглашает строителей, а много ли Ваша могучая контора построила в Европе? Даже подряд на строительство сельского сортира не дадут, там СОВСЕМ другие требования... Кстати, как у вашего предприятия с экологией, Евро-4 соответствует? А то ведь закроют нахрен, согласно общим требованиям...
            1. anton107798
              anton107798 April 4 2013 00: 20 New
              -11
              ha ha ha))))) well could not help but answer? what? only ecology came to mind? Think about it yourself, we worked at the fourth Chernobyl nuclear power unit, with the French, and you ask about the environment? And not Ecology, we protect the building of the sarcophagus? And Siemens carried out the control at our factory, since you think the Germans checked the enterprise for compliance?
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop April 4 2013 00: 36 New
                13
                Well, tell me, the nuclear scientist, about the sarcophagus, maybe I'll hear something new wassat Although unlikely. You didn’t even understand the question. Not compliance with environmental standards of products, but compliance with very stringent requirements of the production itself (emissions, lighting, noise, etc.). By the way, throughout the country, enterprises that fully fit into these standards can be counted on the fingers of one hand. While Ukraine in itself, this question does not stir anyone, but it’s worth signing the papers ... Take an interest, do not be lazy, which ones changes and in what laws the EU requires Yanukovych. I guarantee - optimism will diminish. And - sharply
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop April 4 2013 01: 04 New
                  +1
                  What arguments (verbal) ended? And I had no doubt ... wink
                  1. anton107798
                    anton107798 April 4 2013 18: 31 New
                    -9
                    Yes, it’s not over, is it just stupid to fight against a wall of misunderstanding?
                    1. Eugene
                      Eugene April 6 2013 19: 36 New
                      +2
                      Misunderstandings of what? Your personal well-being? Yes to health! I have seen enough of such representatives of the intelligentsia! I’m fine and let the whole world wait. These teachers, scientists, doctors, all kinds of engineers just amaze me. They sit in their cocoons and think that life was successful. Right grandfather Lenin said that intelligentsia is a nation. Now, after 25 years, it is very clearly visible. Rights was a classic!
              2. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 April 4 2013 04: 19 New
                +6
                Quote: anton107798
                And not Ecology, we protect the building of the sarcophagus?

                You protect your life How much from the sarcophagus to the center of Kiev? and you protect the ecology of Europe. If Chernobyl threatened only you and Russia, the French would hell
              3. grandfather
                grandfather April 4 2013 22: 29 New
                +7
                anton107798 yee at a smarter way ?, you are short-lived, you ask who finances the cap for chaes, find out by shares from the states, and while you breathe for the backwater of Russia, especially in the energy sector in all sectors of the economy.
                Belarus and Russian will close the border and all 80% of exports are not present.
                question: where to get the money?
                do you just know why in geyrop and shsha such a high (was) standard of living?
                in a nutshell: after World War II, Europe, Japan and, like, from the 2s, the Israeli dollar were intensively pumped and financed various projects, everything has stopped recently, since it became dangerous to print bucks in a limited amount, they conducted an experiment with the euro and limited replenishment of the euro, as a result:
                the European economy is not self-sufficient, that is, it spends more than it earns (you know, it lives beyond its means) German and French are the most balanced, but not self-sufficient, France without colonies is generally one decline.
                I answer if Ukraine becomes a slave of the United States, its geyropa will have a cruel fuck.
                maybe you doubt that the eureka steers the dollar? and the dollar is also under the global press.
                so I don’t envy you, especially young people who no longer understand who is who.
                Now, if you want to live in a geyrop, so live, who forbids you?
                believe me, there are people who came from European civilization to the deep taiga to Russia and they are people there too, but you yourself don’t know what you want except as I understand a full belly, I’m disappointing the gay people who want a full belly, so you’re dead , do you think that the gay people will feed you and the like-like? No, you will believe them.
                no offense, just could not stand it, after your naive comments.
              4. Shiva83483
                Shiva83483 April 7 2013 23: 51 New
                +1
                Sacophagus say? And for whose money, let me curiosity?
          2. Egoza
            Egoza April 4 2013 10: 22 New
            12
            Quote: anton107798
            not yet mature enough to call a baby! girl

            Quote: anton107798
            my company worked with the American company PROKTOR EN GEMBL, with the French when building a new sarcophagus over the Chernobyl nuclear power plant

            Мне 60 лет, ДЕТОЧКА! И я работала и в Чернобыле, и спасала детей Киева, причем без всяких иностранных компаний. А вот то, как Вы гордитесь своей работой с иностранными компаниями, прекрасно иллюстрирует ваше хуторянское мышление настоящего украинца. - "Мне хорошо, а на всех остальных - плевать".
            Вы же не думаете, что будет со всей промышленностью Украины при заключении договора об ассоциации с ЕС! Что будет с аграрным сектором! Что будет с пенсионерами и молодежью, при выдвигаемых условиях! "МОЄ - найголовніше!"
            Policemen who sold themselves to the Nazis also thought so! You are their worthy followers!
            1. Apollo
              Apollo April 4 2013 10: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Egoza
              I 60 years


              ................... belay and I thought that 40 with more than repeat
              1. Egoza
                Egoza April 4 2013 11: 18 New
                +6
                Quote: Apollon
                and I thought that 40 with more than

                And age depends on the state of mind! laughing И как я обещала своим курсантам, которые сейчас уже полковники, "Мне всегда будет 25 и ни на один день больше!" laughing The truth of life experience and knowledge has been increased, and everything else is true. hi
            2. anton107798
              anton107798 April 4 2013 18: 35 New
              -12
              Well voooot)))) finally I waited for this !!! 60-year-old matron called FASCIST !!! But not much time will pass and the new generation will look at you with incomprehension. Because they will not know what the USSR is. But they will remember the gas wars, the encroachments on the Crimea, the washing of dams and much more ...
              1. Eugene
                Eugene April 6 2013 19: 40 New
                +5
                When we washed the dam, we were residents of the Crimea, we wanted only one thing. That would be washed, and then dig Perekop, and fuck, away from Geyukradiny!
            3. Quiet
              Quiet April 7 2013 20: 52 New
              +3
              I am 60 years old, Girl!

              Elena, do not mislead members of the forum !!! A woman after she turned 18 stops aging !!!! hi love
              1. Egoza
                Egoza April 7 2013 21: 01 New
                0
                Thanks, Quiet!
                1. Quiet
                  Quiet April 7 2013 21: 19 New
                  0
                  Thanks, Quiet!

                  Good luck and less pay attention to those who soon have a second skull on shoulder straps to appear !! laughing love
          3. Val_y
            Val_y April 8 2013 14: 57 New
            +2
            Молоток, "проктор и гембел" продвигаешь, вместо натуральных продуктов какая-то х...я из которой все делают (и соки, и питание детское, и кулинария, все, буквально все, только ГМО. И кстати что за компания такая которая занимается и саркофагом над ЧАЭС, и питанием, и металлургией request
      5. kubanec
        kubanec April 3 2013 20: 01 New
        +8
        How I like to read Russian articles! ----- And who by nationality will you be a Romanian or protoucr?
        1. anton107798
          anton107798 April 3 2013 23: 56 New
          -6
          I am Ukrainian! but who are you? the question is of course interesting ... maybe how do you like to dignify yourself there? Great Russian?
          1. ars_pro
            ars_pro April 4 2013 02: 31 New
            +2
            tell me, dear, for shale gas in the Kharkov region?
          2. Ruslan67
            Ruslan67 April 4 2013 04: 20 New
            +7
            Quote: anton107798
            I am Ukrainian!

            Judging by the posts you just M ...... with a capital letter wassat
          3. kubanec
            kubanec April 4 2013 17: 49 New
            +3
            I am Ukrainian! but who are you? the question is of course interesting ... maybe how do you like to dignify yourself there? Velikoros? ----------
            yes, no, just RUSSIAN ......., if we lived in one united country then WE would be GREAT RESPONSE !!!
          4. RUSSIA75
            RUSSIA75 April 5 2013 16: 22 New
            +6
            Quote: anton107798
            I am Ukrainian! but who are you? the question is of course interesting ... maybe how do you like to dignify yourself there? Great Russian?
          5. Shikari91
            Shikari91 April 6 2013 00: 15 New
            +5
            Ukrainian? This is the same as the Russians, just belonging to the territory. And so we are all brothers, Slavs! And it doesn’t matter where you were born, in Ukraine, in Russia or Belarus. And this permanent srach on hand only the US and the EU
      6. smirnov
        smirnov April 3 2013 21: 44 New
        16
        Anton, it’s not for you to decide. Where to go and where to live. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I would also like people like you to go to Poland, for example, or further to the euro zone, but I don’t shout about it. already there, you know what they are doing. Here I know, and the fate of my children is not indifferent to me. Therefore, I would advise you to choose expressions a little more carefully.
        1. lonshakovpetr
          lonshakovpetr April 3 2013 22: 26 New
          0
          The European Union, the European Union ..... yes, it is already cracking at the seams ... so they obviously do not need extra ballast belay ballast
        2. lonshakovpetr
          lonshakovpetr April 3 2013 22: 29 New
          +8
          The European Union, the European Union .... yes, it is already bursting at the seams of your European Union ... so it obviously does not need extra ballast .. belay
        3. anton107798
          anton107798 April 4 2013 00: 00 New
          -4
          And I didn’t offer you to go live! And Poland then? Or do you think that I live somewhere in Lviv? then you are mistaken, I am a native Kharkiv resident. for some reason, it was the opinion that only the Western aspire to Europe does not want an alliance with Russia.
        4. 30143
          30143 April 4 2013 00: 43 New
          0
          This is to say the least, or rather politically correct.
      7. tommy1984
        tommy1984 April 3 2013 22: 23 New
        15
        How I like to read Russian articles!


        А мне "нравится" читать статьи некоторых западноукраинских журналистов. Например, госпожа русофобка Нана Чёрная в газете "УНИАН" разрываемая ненавистью к России пишет сегодня:

        According to the Kharkov agreements signed in April 2010 by the presidents of Ukraine and Russia Viktor Yanukovych and Dmitry Medvedev, the term of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol was extended from 2017 to 2042. That is, the "occupation" is delayed.


        In other articles, Madame constantly reiterates that they expect and want Ukraine in the EU.

        Without tears, looking at this schizophrenia is completely impossible. But reading is still sometimes interesting: you begin to understand how everything is launched there.

        На эту клинику можно ответить цитатой из "Бравого солдата Швейка":

        "Ксендз был высокий худой старик, в выцветшей засаленной рясе. Из скупости он почти ничего не ел. His father raised him in hatred of the Russians, however, this hatred was completely removed after the Russians retreated, when soldiers of the Austrian army came to the village. They ate all the geese and chickens that the Russians did not touch, even though he had shaggy Transbaikal Cossacks.
        Когда же в Лисковец вступили венгры и выбрали весь мед из ульев, он еще более яростно возненавидел австрийскую армию."

        Welcome to the EU, Madame Black hi
        1. rolik
          rolik April 3 2013 23: 40 New
          +4
          Quote: tommy1984
          want in the EU.

          Well, about this, it is true)))) There are great connoisseurs of spicy poses. Compared to European love, the Kamasutra will seem Murzilka. Spain, Portugal and some other countries of the European Union have already experienced the joy of European love. But this doesn’t teach some ... unfortunately.
        2. xan
          xan April 4 2013 11: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: tommy1984
          "Ксендз был высокий худой старик, в выцветшей засаленной рясе. Из скупости он почти ничего не ел. Отец воспитал его в ненависти к русским, однако эту ненависть как рукой сняло после отступления русских, когда в село пришли солдаты австрийской армии. Они сожрали всех гусей и кур, которых русские не тронули, хоть у него стояли лохматые забайкальские казаки.
          Когда же в Лисковец вступили венгры и выбрали весь мед из ульев, он еще более яростно возненавидел австрийскую армию."


          Tommy 1984, thanks for the priest and for the shaggy Transbaikal Cossacks
      8. Axel
        Axel April 3 2013 22: 42 New
        -5
        And I have a girl friend who worked in Gazprom with a salary of 200000 rubles in the north, 70 km from the Arctic Circle, which also proves how cool it is to live in Russia. But at the same time he already lives in Ukraine and the question is whether you will come back because the apartment is a good job there, politely sends

        A dog runs from Ukraine to Russia. Eyes bulging.
        She is asked why, they say, are you running?
        - Yes, there is nothing to eat. I’ll run to Russia.
        A few days later he flees back to Ukraine. Eyes bulging even more.
        - What this time?
        - Yes, there is also nothing to eat. But in Ukraine you can even bark ...
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop April 3 2013 23: 17 New
          18
          Quote: Axel
          Yes, there is also nothing to eat. But in Ukraine you can even bark ...
          If there was nothing to eat, she would not have run back ... So now this dog runs to eat in Russia, and then to Ukraine - plenty of munching (including Russia). A familiar dog, recognizable type ... lol
        2. rolik
          rolik April 3 2013 23: 43 New
          +3
          Quote: Axel
          Axel

          There is another good joke about a Ukrainian - who, if he doesn’t eat everything, at least bites, so that others do not get it. So Ukraine lived like this until recently. Only now it seems to me that soon there will be nothing left to bite
          Sorry((((
      9. rolik
        rolik April 3 2013 23: 32 New
        +4
        Quote: anton107798
        I have one friend, from Belgorod himself, who works and lives in Kharkov. Always with foam at the mouth proves how cool it is to live in Russia, but on a polite promise to go there to live .... HOP !!! and the desire to go disappears!

        But I’m a man, I probably know a hundred, everything comes from an independent one. And none of them says how cool it is to live in Ukraine and do not seek to go there.
        And to help Ukraine, only really help, really only Russia can. Because as soon as we can help the neighbor who fell into your big ass as your power. Europe and mattresses, first of all, will think about how to take away your last underpants with you, and then force them to work for themselves for free. And try to prove the opposite.
        1. Axel
          Axel April 4 2013 01: 27 New
          -2
          It’s good for my friend to live in Ukraine; his company is registered in Klaipeda; it produces warehouse equipment; it trades with the EU; it has adopted Lithuanian citizenship, it’s easier to conduct business here (we speak with the tax through the consul); the company’s salary is 500-1000 $
          Yes, and I'm not bad at printing. I work for myself.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop April 4 2013 11: 27 New
            +8
            Quote: Axel
            Accepted Lithuanian citizenship, it’s easier to do business with us (speaks with the tax through the consul

            Еще бы. Спрятался от национальных органов контроля за двумя границами, чем не жизнь?. Сейчас его консульство "крышует", а тогда кто этим займется?

            Все это мне больше всего напоминает детский взгляд на то, кем быть хорошо. Маленькие дети приморских городов, когда их спрашивали, кем хотят стать, чаще всего отвечали: "Отдыхающим". По сравнению с вечно занятыми родителями безбедная жизнь отдыхающего казалась им раем. Ну а о том, как и где эти люди зарабатывают себе на отдых, они по молодости лет и не задумывались...
          2. Eugene
            Eugene April 6 2013 19: 47 New
            +4
            What are you drawing here for me? A friend of mine works as the manager of a bank branch. So everything is in chocolate there. A hundred or so acquaintances live in the villages. No work, no salary, no water, no firewood. Forward, to the ideals of Liberastia !! Sala to Ukraine !!
          3. dimon-media
            dimon-media April 8 2013 14: 25 New
            0
            and how little is earning?
      10. vyatom
        vyatom April 5 2013 13: 20 New
        +3
        Quote: anton107798
        At my workplace, the team has about a hundred people, including about a dozen Russians ... the rest are for an alliance with Europe! and so everywhere and everywhere!

        Pay for the gas, not steal it like rats. And p ... blow to Europe, we don’t need you.
      11. Shikari91
        Shikari91 April 6 2013 00: 05 New
        +3
        First read what the European Union offers, and then we'll see where you will be more attracted to Europe, where you will have obligations, but you will not have rights, or Russia, in which you will be accepted as brothers. The choice is yours, how and with whom to live.
      12. Shiva83483
        Shiva83483 April 7 2013 23: 42 New
        0
        My dear, history does not tolerate subjunctive moods ... proven more than once ...
      13. Deniska
        Deniska April 9 2013 12: 36 New
        0
        "идет речь в докладе, который был подготовлен экспертами Центра системного анализа и программирования (г.Киев)." Вот такая фраза в начале статьи ни чего не говорит?
    6. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 April 4 2013 22: 17 New
      +6
      Какие, нафиг, девушки? Мадамка, заявляющая что выходит за вас замуж, но будет бегать к соседу, это не девушка давным давно. Называется это существо иначе, а "муж" ее потенциальный - это сутенер. И в сутенеры пойти Европа, да СГА вполне согласны. Вот только эта бл... какая то странная! Откуда у нее идеи, что сутенер будет платить ЕЙ?! Нет, сутенер не будет, не для этого он ее, такую, воспитал.
      Короче, в процессе "евроинтеграции" Украину ждут могучие тумаки, до потери пульса. Если надо сократить непонятливое население вдесятеро, чтобы начало приносить хозяевам прибыль - так это европейцев не остановит... А иначе Украина им даром не нужна.
      А Россия абсолютно не нуждается в хитропопых выкрутасах. Поэтому "об ассоциированном членстве Украины в Таможенном Союзе" - это украинский глюк. От саловой абстиненции... Нам, если честно, и членство Украины в Союзе уже почти не нужно, по той простой причине, что уж больно эта "страна" склонна к предательству. Что то кажется мне, наши власти просто подождут, покуда от евроинтеграции кое кто станет кровью харкать. За мечту ж страдания, грех мешать! После чего заберем себе восточные области. Остальные пусть наслаждаются евросчастьем и далее!
  2. SCS
    SCS April 3 2013 08: 38 New
    +6
    you can’t sit on two chairs with one ass!
    1. Nesvet Nezar
      Nesvet Nezar April 3 2013 09: 51 New
      -2
      I hear the word - Ukraine - to cry, I want to beat someone and it becomes funny at the same time.
      1. Mefodiy
        Mefodiy April 3 2013 10: 25 New
        11
        Quote: Nesarya Nesvet
        I hear the word - Ukraine - to cry, I want to beat someone and it becomes funny at the same time.

        Maybe you ate something stale th ... And why are you so tuned? Come to the Carpathian region (Morshin, Skhidnitsa, Truskavets), drink some healing water, breathe clean air ... maybe let it go .. wink
        PS It is likely that this will come to you cheaper than yours, in Kislovodsk (and safer (for Russian), the Caucasus all the same)
        1. Gari
          Gari April 3 2013 11: 16 New
          14
          [quote = Mefodiy] Maybe you ate something stale th ... And why are you so tuned? Come to the Carpathian region (Morshin, Skhidnitsa, Truskavets), drink some healing water, breathe clean air ... maybe let it go .. [/ quote
          And I would come to the Carpathian region with pleasure all the more I was not, but I heard a lot, poured some water and not only
          Politicians should not be confused with ordinary people, because no one bothers us to communicate and make friends
          1. opkozak
            opkozak April 3 2013 13: 27 New
            +8
            We invite you. You can not only relax, but also buy property at prices much lower than Karlovy Vary or Baden-Baden.
            http://naftusia.com/price/
          2. wk
            wk April 3 2013 14: 42 New
            15
            Quote: Gari
            And I would come to the Carpathian region with pleasure all the more I was not, but I heard a lot, poured some water and not only

            Well, I was in Truskavets 3 times in 84, 86, and 87 years ..... I was still a teenager and I went around many excursions .... Lviv, Drogobych, Borislav ...
            Yes, it’s interesting to recall on one guided tour of the city and the surroundings of Truskovets (the same guide conducted a cheerful peasant always a little under the hood)
            так, вот, у захоронения красноармейцев за городом стояли интересные даты...1946, 1947, 1948.....1954....на вопрос удивленных москвичей и ленингадцев почему? экскурсовод скомканно отвечал "от ран"....в группе экскурсантов (с Донбаса в оновном, с Харькова) более просвещённых по этому вопросу шептали - бандеровцы это! все они здесь такие!......а в 1987 году, когда объявили гласность экскурсовод с пафосом спросил "как, вы нас местных жителей называете?.... правильно бандаровцами" и со смаком рассказал истрию о местной "гале-проводнице"(условно), которая взялась проводить НКВДшников на базу бандеровцев, а завела к ним в засаду....
            the point is that even after the first trip in 1984, I began to understand that the USSR, the friendship of peoples .... and so on, about which they told us at school (Moscow region) - bullshit .... and by the year 87 I had visited in Moldova ..... in short, I understood - the collapse of this state is a matter of time, though I did not expect so fleetingly.
        2. Tersky
          Tersky April 3 2013 12: 08 New
          14
          Quote: Mefodiy
          in Kislovodsk (and safer (for Russian), the Caucasus all the same)

          Yes, somehow calmly in Kislovodsk, and in Pyatigorsk, and Zheleznovodsk. And the water we have is better than the Carpathian one (I drank it), I’ll go to Chechnya., And oddly enough, I am Russian ...
          1. Gari
            Gari April 3 2013 12: 15 New
            15
            Quote: Tersky
            Yes, it’s somehow calm in Kislovodsk, and in Pyatigorsk, and Zheleznovodsk, and better water than the Carpathian

            And I would come to you, but I can invite you to visit us in Dilijan, as in the film ,, Mimino ,,,, water takes the second place in the world
            source monument in Dilijan
            Mkrtchyan, Leonov and Kikabidze
            1. Gari
              Gari April 3 2013 16: 20 New
              17
              In addition to water, you can try something stronger
              The cellars of the Brandy Factory ,, Ararat ,,, where an excursion and tasting are held

              Maxim Gorky wrote:

              “It is much easier to climb Mount Ararat than from the basements of Ararat.”
              1. DDR
                DDR April 3 2013 18: 12 New
                +6
                Cognac Factory ,, Ararat ,,, where an excursion and tasting are held [/ quote]
                Is that from every barrel you have to try? belay
                1. Gari
                  Gari April 3 2013 21: 49 New
                  +6
                  Quote: DDR
                  Is that from every barrel you have to try?

                  You can try, the main thing is then to get out of the basements
                  1. datur
                    datur April 3 2013 23: 09 New
                    +3
                    [quote = Gari] [quote = RDR] Is that from every barrel you have to try? [/ quote]
                    You can try, the main thing is then to get out of the basements, exactly a month or so in 2-3-4 !!!! laughing
                2. datur
                  datur April 3 2013 23: 08 New
                  +3
                  Quote: DDR
                  Cognac Factory ,, Ararat ,, where an excursion and tasting are held

                  Is that from every barrel you have to try? belay --- keep quiet sadness keep quiet, oh I would try as much as I could !!!! wink drinks yes good I love Armenian cognac !!!! drinks good yes
              2. Tersky
                Tersky April 3 2013 21: 27 New
                10
                Quote: Gari
                In addition to water, you can try something stronger. Cellars of the Brandy Factory ,, Ararat ,,,

                Спасибо коллега! Вот ради этого стоит поехать, люблю и ценю добрый коньяк а он у вас прекраснейший. Во времена СССР его можно было купить, правда не без трудностей, а сейчас увы...нет его, один контрафакт в магазинах. Так что довольствуюсь Дагестанским "Кизляром", то же неплох но до ваших мастеров купажа далеко...
                1. Gari
                  Gari April 3 2013 21: 59 New
                  +7
                  A colleague is not only cognac, but you can also try homemade vodka: mulberry, apricot, grape itself, and still home-made wines - all this is clear by barbecue
                  Well, there is something to see, beautiful places, mountains of the gorge, Lake Sevan, church churches,
                  Welcome to Armenia, no visas required
                2. datur
                  datur April 3 2013 23: 11 New
                  0
                  no, well, why are we selling normal !!! I especially like ARADIS !!!!! good yes laughing
          2. kubanec
            kubanec April 3 2013 19: 59 New
            0
            Yes, in Chechnya now calmer than in Moscow !!!!
        3. Cynic
          Cynic April 3 2013 18: 41 New
          +8
          Quote: Mefodiy
          Come to the Carpathian region (Morshin, Skhidnitsa, Truskavets), have a drink of medicinal water, breathe clean air.


          How fast do we forget?
          1. DimychDV
            DimychDV April 4 2013 05: 52 New
            +2
            Much worse for health
            whether in winter, in spring
            near the rivers near Moscow
            to bathe in the war.
            A. Twardowski
        4. 30143
          30143 April 4 2013 00: 46 New
          -3
          Have you accidentally played with Nesvet Zarya in more than one sandbox?
    2. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz April 3 2013 10: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: SCS
      you can’t sit on two chairs with one ass!

      Can you stand on two legs? Or on one? How to continue assholes? laughing It is ridiculous how often people repeat clever strangers of others.
      1. A. Yaga
        A. Yaga April 3 2013 13: 44 New
        10
        Quote: gladiatorakz
        Quote: SCS
        you can’t sit on two chairs with one ass!

        Can you stand on two legs? Or on one? How to continue assholes? laughing It is ridiculous how often people repeat clever strangers of others.

        It seems that the chairs are not a continuation of the ass request nor extension of legs request . fool
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz April 3 2013 21: 44 New
          -4
          Цитата: А. Яга
          It seems that the chairs are neither an extension of the ass, nor an extension of the legs.

          Is Yaga a blonde? laughing Read the comments several times. Should help in understanding.
          1. A. Yaga
            A. Yaga April 3 2013 21: 56 New
            +6
            Quote: gladiatorakz
            Цитата: А. Яга
            It seems that the chairs are neither an extension of the ass, nor an extension of the legs.

            Is Yaga a blonde? laughing Read the comments several times. Should help in understanding.

            Judging by the estimates, people still sympathize with blondes! wink
            1. gladiatorakz
              gladiatorakz April 4 2013 10: 06 New
              +1
              Цитата: А. Яга
              Judging by the estimates, people still sympathize with blondes!

              Эт точно. Они ж не смотрят на их умственные способности, они погрязли в своих эротических фантазиях, активируемых словом "блондинка".
              By the way, it’s more suitable for you when you sign up with an emoticon than you would when you beat yourself on the forehead and twist at the temple. laughing
    3. Misantrop
      Misantrop April 4 2013 11: 30 New
      +3
      Quote: SCS
      you can’t sit on two chairs with one ass!

      Can. And quite successfully, while the chairs are stable. But when the chairs with grimaces of crises suddenly began to creep in different directions (and the ass managed to stick), it was already much more complicated ... lol
  3. Captain Vrungel
    Captain Vrungel April 3 2013 08: 39 New
    19
    Both the CU and the EU are minor for citizen Yanukovych, and a languid imitation of violent activity is being conducted.
    Основное, это борьба "семьи" за беспроигрышные президентские выборы в 2015 году. Юзовская мафия полностью захватила власть в государстве и имея собственные суды и прокуратуру, игнорируя конституцию и возводя "понятия" в закон , выхолащивают последний островок оппозиции в демократии, подготавливая захваченную им территорию к беспроигрышным выборам Януковича в 2015 году с неограниченной властью А там будет видно, что семье будет выгодно , или ТС, или ЕС, или режимная территория.
  4. Romn
    Romn April 3 2013 09: 00 New
    12
    The entry of Ukraine into the CU would be the best and right decision, it is necessary to revive the common territory in the post-Soviet space!
  5. Kolya
    Kolya April 3 2013 09: 01 New
    17
    The problem is in the Ukrainian oligarchs, and not in Ukraine at all.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 09: 45 New
      16
      Quote: Kohl
      The problem is in the Ukrainian oligarchs, and not in Ukraine at all.

      Don’t tell me, yesterday I convinced only one ordinary citizen of the benefits of the TS, provided links and all that. A man from Kazakhstan came and scattered the pros in even more detail, but suddenly a dude flies to the American flag, writes koment in a couple of lines with losses for the Ukrainian budget without links and EVERYTHING! The Ukrainian citizen was completely satisfied with the words about losses, he himself didn’t have any desire to sit in the brain. The man heard that he wanted to hear and all our arguments went unnoticed request
      1. tarks
        tarks April 3 2013 09: 55 New
        13
        I (one), for example, can depict two and three citizens! this time.
        twenty years of unidirectional propaganda - also affected. these are two.
        Chubais not planted, no? these are three.
        1. Tersky
          Tersky April 3 2013 10: 19 New
          12
          Quote: tarks
          Chubais not planted, no? these are three.

          As in (in) Ukraine Bandera is being transplanted, so we will send Chubais to kitsch ...
          1. opkozak
            opkozak April 3 2013 10: 39 New
            +4
            How to transplant Bandera’s in (in) Ukraine,



            How to transplant 25 million people? Is it something like the one shown in the illustration for the article?
            1. Tersky
              Tersky April 3 2013 10: 51 New
              13
              Quote: opkozak
              How to transplant 25 million people?

              So many natsik? The forecast population of Ukraine as of January 1, 2013 is 45 million 547 thousand 800 people. Those. in your opinion 54,58% of the population of Ukraine svidomity? Is it not often and thick?
              1. opkozak
                opkozak April 3 2013 23: 28 New
                +2
                Quote: Tersky
                So many natsik? The forecast population of Ukraine as of January 1, 2013 is 45 million 547 thousand 800 people. Those. In your 54,58% of the population of Ukraine Svidomity?

                Mister dear.
                The site is strictly prohibited:
                .inciting national hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, india, Jew, USA, Bulbash, Talaponet, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, b, Raska and other similar turns of unnatural speech;
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 10: 25 New
          +9
          Quote: tarks
          I (one), for example, can depict two and three citizens! this time.

          I have one nickname this time!
          Quote: tarks
          twenty years of unidirectional propaganda - also affected. these are two.

          You need to have your own brains - these are two!
          Quote: tarks
          Chubais not planted, no? it's three

          Alas, yes, it's three!
          1. tarks
            tarks April 3 2013 10: 56 New
            +4
            You need to have your own brains - these are two!

            You probably do not quite understand the essence of propaganda, which, in fact, is a means of intercourse of the brain.
            И абсолютно подавляющее большинство народу "ест" то, что более всего доступно, чего больше.
            That is why the law on advertising on mov is introduced.
          2. tarks
            tarks April 3 2013 10: 58 New
            0
            I have one nickname this time!

            Actually, I meant your interlocutors with ukro and pindo flags.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 11: 49 New
              0
              Quote: tarks

              Actually, I meant your interlocutors with ukro and pindo flags.

              Then I didn’t get you request
              1. Kasym
                Kasym April 3 2013 18: 05 New
                16
                Alexander Romanov, Skavron. Good day, everyone! You probably meant me in yesterday’s discussion.
                Based on the economic situation inside the KZ after joining the Customs Union. Then yes, indeed, many products were imitating (many Kazakhstanis talk about this), and when did they get cheaper !? But many forget that there is a global crisis in the yard. And he hits much harder than joining the vehicle. I’ll try to explain.
                Идет отток капиталов из наших стран . Достать "длинные деньги" практически невозможно . Банки дают кредиты только краткосрочные . То есть только под "купи-продай" . А для промышленности это не годится .
                У меня сейчас есть один производственный проект ( на конец прошлого года даже в России подобного производства не было ) . Около 30 рабочих мест . Но куда бы не обращался , все говорят :"Отличный проект . Жди ." Итак уже 8 месяцев . То есть сейчас период застоя . Но вины России или Казахстана или Белорусии нет .
                We in the West want to solve our problems. Cyprus showed it perfectly. And then there will be Italy, Spain, Portugal. This suggests that we need our own currency.
                From what I wrote yesterday, one conclusion can be made - without economic interaction with Russia, Kazakhstan (KZ) will grow very hard. He sat especially hard. households . It has practically bent over - people are fleeing from villages and villages. The CU makes it possible to revive this direction, and the state is ready to subsidize everything, give cheap and long money. They even conducted experiments with drip irrigation, other methods of plowing the land, greenhouses, and seedlings of other crops. KZ from Ukraine, for example, in a rural household. 10-15 years behind, as one agronomist told me.
                I completely agree that Ukraine needs to establish order (legal) at home before entering somewhere. And forcing her to join the vehicle is counterproductive. This should be decided only by the Ukrainians themselves.
                1. Skavron
                  Skavron April 3 2013 20: 54 New
                  0
                  Kasym, welcome.
                  Could not answer your comment yesterday, let's not run around the topic.
                  You wrote a lot of really good and right things a lot yesterday, but I had one question about your examples. But couldn’t this be done without a vehicle?
                  Here is another example.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  He sat especially hard. households

                  Quote: Kasym
                  people flee villages and villages

                  Why is CX not developed? This is a problem for us, first of all, due to incomprehensions with the land at the legislative level. And so, I know a dozen people, so offhand, who are already ready to withdraw money from their accounts and invest in the construction of farms. These will not be mega-huge farms, but they will provide jobs in villages (one or two farms per village, depending on size), they will supply the market with a quality product, and this product can be imported in addition ...
                  1. Kasym
                    Kasym April 3 2013 23: 52 New
                    +5
                    Добрый вечер ( у нас ночь ) , Skavron ! Ну взять , например , уран . Казатомпром чуть ли не умолял Россию ( я не помню название аналогичной компании в РФ , возглавляет Кириленко ,бывший премьер министр -"Киндер -сюрпризом" его называли, да простит меня Всевышний) скооперироваться . Подписывались документы , меморандумы . Да толку ноль . В конце концов в начале 2000-х пришли французы , японцы , канадцы . А когда запасы от СССР в России начали истощаться одумались , где-то в 2008 году , Кириленко заявил :"Мы обратились к своим потенциальным партнерам , то оказалось , что там все занято (имел в виду КЗ )". Поезд уехал . Пришлось проводить какую-то махинацию , в результате которой Жакишев (глава Казатомпрома ) сел в тюрьму - вообще-то темная история , т.к. он много сделал ( даже новый метод добычи - кислотное выщелачивание был внедрен - экологически более чистый , наше ноу-хау ) . А теперь между нами работает целый пакет законодательной базы , комитет целый . Даже можно решить в судебном порядке - попробуй не выполни , заставят . При создании ТС был принят огромный пакет законодательных документов , утвержденный нашими парламентами . Образно говоря правила игры . Взять нефть . Транспортировка нефти по КТК ( трубопровод от Каспия до Черного моря ) . Сколько мы бились над его расширением , ни в какую - кучу документов подписали . Начали танкерами гнать в Азербайджан . Спохватились . Теперь есть комитет(или комиссия ) которая обязана эти вопросы решать .
                    Agriculture . There was no place to sell. Customs excises, quotas, sanitary cordons - a lot of bureaucracy and obstacles. But each country has its own advantages. Kazakhstan (KZ) is the more southern region - sugar beets (in the USSR we had 5 cereal plants), rice, onions, gourds, cotton, durum wheat, fruits, early vegetables, meat, etc. . Delivered to the entire USSR. All this collapsed. Now it all makes sense to revive - there was a PROSPECT, MARKET OF SALES. And our neighbors will be sure that they will not palm off GMOs, you can check at any time. The legislative framework has been working for us for a long time, the land (it can be bought, sold, mortgaged in a bank) has owners. Agricultural machinery leasing works, fuel and lubricants at a price lower than the market to get it - the state helps. Now, as I already wrote, a whole target program is being developed.
                    Something like that . Sincerely, Dauren.
                    1. Skavron
                      Skavron April 4 2013 10: 20 New
                      0
                      Kasym, welcome.
                      Here I am considering your examples, and apart from direct pressure on you from Russia, I see nothing.
                      For the same uranium.
                      That is, you were forced to join the TS in exchange for the fact that they will buy your products. Although you already had partners at that time.
                      According to CX, the same thing
                      Quote: Kasym
                      Customs excises, quotas, sanitary cordons - a lot of bureaucracy and obstacles.
                      А без ТС это разве нельзя было решить? Как только вошли в ТС, и все, сразу никаких перепонов. Продукция ведь хуже не стала? Нет. Санконтроль наверняка такой же остался. Конечная цена продукта снизилась для потребителя? Не знаю. Но думаю, что нет. Вывод - опять таки "заставили".
                      What got in +:
                      Guarantees for a stable sales market on the territory of the vehicle.
                      Средства от оборота увеличивают бюджет. (Эта та "фишка" за которую все ратуют и для Украины)
                      In the red - harsh conditions on the part of the Customs Union for the economy of Kazakhstan as a whole. And this is the difficulty in finding profitable partners from countries not members of the CU.
                      With uv.
                      1. Kasym
                        Kasym April 4 2013 17: 08 New
                        +3
                        Good afternoon, Skavron! I would not make such a conclusion. Because :
                        1. Kazakhstan itself put forward this initiative in 1993 and then voiced it more than once.
                        2. The main thing is the restoration of production and technological chains to obtain the final product with the highest added value and, of course, the maximum benefit for yourself.
                        For example, for the same uranium. The same French, except for raw materials do not need anything. That is, we received minimal profit. And now, according to agreements with Russia (production in Angarsk, by the way, Ukraine was invited, by the way), we claim part of the profit already in the finished product - enriched uranium. Of course, investments are required.
                        Or gas. Well, why build a processing plant of $ 4 billion and spend 5 years (for construction) if it is in Orenburg and, having invested only 2 billion, get it right now. Work places for Russia and for us. Without our gas it will stand. Accordingly, a large profit. Of course it is possible without a vehicle, but now there is a legislative basis and guarantees that the money will not be lost.
                        3. The national interests of Kazakhstan in the territory of the Customs Union are PROTECTED. Our businessmen and the state can buy back the shares of enterprises in which they are interested, not as foreigners, but as their own.
                        That is, the interests are purely economic.
                        Sat down. household, and indeed trade. There are no customs excises, therefore our goods will be cheaper for Russians and Belarusians. And over time, transportation tariffs will be cheaper. Therefore, we will have an advantage over imported goods.
                        Regards, Dauren. drinks
                      2. Skavron
                        Skavron April 5 2013 10: 15 New
                        0
                        Welcome.
                        Dauren, you have voiced very correct things. TS promotes cooperation, but I repeat that it was possible to do without an alliance. Concluding interstate cooperation agreements.
                        And what about Ukraine? Why am I against the country's entry into the CU at this stage.
                        Will explain. Now the situation in the country is awful. It has been divided since 2004 by different groups trying to squeeze each other tidbits. Laws in Ukraine do not work, Parliament does not work, i.e. and new laws are not adopted or even developed. The main plus for Ukraine when entering the vehicle is the price of gas. I will make a reservation right there only if the price is not raised in 1-2 years. Otherwise, there will not be much sense from the vehicle. Gas is the main article of Russian exports to Ukraine.
                        Now Ukrainian goods delivered to Russia are highly profitable; upon joining the CU, anti-dumping agreements will be concluded, i.e. prices will be approximately equal for Ukrainian and Russian counterparts, this is good for agricultural but bad for industrial production of the same machines, wagons, heavy machinery, where Ukrainian enterprises are now winning. So, if we enter the CU, we lose the market losing in price, we don’t enter - we will lose the market due to the introduction of protective sanctions by the CU members. That's why Yanyk asked 3 + 1
                        Enterprises that have purely regional significance in Ukraine and do not import products will face external competition, which before the Customs Union did not exist. They can be modernized and reduced costs, but here again we are faced with wretched Ukrainian laws, try to take the land to expand production, or build something new ... I guarantee 7 circles of hell. (If there is no money for a bribe, or if principal)
                        In general, there are a lot of questions and you can’t answer right away. I read the analytics of a major Ukrainian analyst about the benefits of the TS ... he said a lot of the right things, but he didn’t answer one question ... Why is Ukraine Russia in the TS? Indeed, if we start from all economic analyzes (this analyst in the sense), then Russia seems to be not particularly winning when Ukraine joins ...

                        So at this stage, I am against entry.
              2. rolik
                rolik April 3 2013 23: 49 New
                +1
                Quote: Kasym
                Banks give loans only short-term.

                We have long-term give. A friend launched a plant for the production of modular homes. It is developing normally, a loan is not for 8 months, for several years.
                1. Kasym
                  Kasym April 4 2013 00: 29 New
                  +2
                  Доброй ночи , Роман ! Рад за Вашего знакомого ! Молодец , ничего ни скажешь ! Просто при получении кредита есть много нюансов . У меня ,например, не хватает залогового имущества . Требуется инвестор с живыми деньгами , хотя бы треть , все остальное можно организовать . Наши "крутики " выжидают . Законодательная база позволяет создать Свободную Эконом. Зону - растоможка сырья : 0 ставка , только оформление - никаких там. акцизов (от5ДО15%) , НДС (12%) после продажи товара , льготный период до запуска производства . Вот такие дела .
                  Regards, Dauren. hi
      2. rolik
        rolik April 3 2013 23: 46 New
        -1
        Quote: tarks
        Chubais not planted,

        And Kravchuk with Kui?
    2. Skavron
      Skavron April 3 2013 09: 58 New
      +2
      Mr. Romanov, there was no time to answer a comrade from Kazakhstan (I’ll answer), personally, your arguments are not convincing. Slogans.
      Advantages of the CU to the EU, I know, this is not the most important thing. And most importantly, what you do not want to notice in my comments.
      And this is that Ukraine in its current state should not enter anywhere. She herself needs to restore order, at least in the legislative framework.

      If they do not sign an association with the EU, then I will only cross and put a candle.

      Неужели вы считаете, что я против нормальных отношений с Россией? Или зла ей желаю? Я просто не хочу жить в Российской империи...дружить с Россией - только "за".
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 10: 22 New
        10
        Quote: Skavron
        personally, your arguments are not convincing. Slogans.

        My reasons belay What are you talking about? All that I gave you is the statements of officials-Azarov, the Russian Foreign Ministry, Yanukovych and Putin, with numbers and prices and nothing more.
        Quote: Skavron
        And this is that Ukraine in its current state should not enter anywhere.

        Again, there will be losses for the Ukrainian budget and not small, but you do not want to sit down and count.
        Quote: Skavron
        Я просто не хочу жить в Российской империи...дружить с Россией - только "за".

        What empire, you listen to less of the Natsiks, maybe then you’ll figure out what's what. You had a couple of lines of a dreamer under the US flag yesterday, drew numbers from heaven and that’s enough for you, and the fact that the numbers are completely crap for you, it doesn’t matter .
        Kazakhstan and Belarus became part of the Russian Empire wassat wassat wassat
        1. ytqnhfk
          ytqnhfk April 3 2013 10: 52 New
          +6
          To get what you want, you need to give it up and then you get what you want !!!!!!!!! So we need to give up Ukraine, it is saturated with euro poison, let it go there and at the same time look at the Baltic states and Bulgaria, there are a lot of people TELLING THERE! HOW IT WAS AND HOW IT HAS AFTER ACCESSION TO THE EU!
          1. krisostomus
            krisostomus April 3 2013 13: 37 New
            -4
            Well, what does the Baltic countries look worse than Russia in and what exactly? I live in Estonia and somehow I don’t find anything terrible in comparison with Russia. Our salaries and pensions, both average and median, are not inferior to Russian and even slightly higher. In terms of GDP per capita, inflation and many other macro indicators, we are in no way inferior to Russia. The level of government debt from GDP is about the same - about 7%. The price level is also about the same except for gasoline, but in Russia it is also approaching world prices. Previously, Russia could boast about the low cost of utilities, but today they are the same as ours and even higher. But we have practically finished reforming the housing and communal services, and Russia has not even begun to do so. So what is worse with us? And what would integration with the Customs Union give us, especially since both Russia and Estonia are part of the WTO.
            1. Mhpv
              Mhpv April 3 2013 13: 51 New
              12
              Estonia territory-45 226 km2, population-1286540persons,
              Moscow region territory-44379km2, population7048084 people
              Do you realize the difference between Estonia and Russia?
              1. wk
                wk April 3 2013 15: 32 New
                +1
                Quote: mhpv
                Estonia territory-45 226 km2, population-1286540 people, Moscow region territory-44379 km2, population 7048084 people Do you realize the difference between Estonia and Russia?
                well, if so, then Estonia without Tallinn should be considered as far as I remember there are about 600000, i.e. half, and in Moscow about 10 - 12 million ... you can’t exactly count, and the census is very formal







        2. Tersky
          Tersky April 3 2013 10: 54 New
          +9
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          under the flag of the USA, painted numbers from heaven and that’s enough for you,

          Sasha, this is all the trick, and you have a tricolor in nickname ... wink And in pursuit
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 10: 58 New
            0
            Quote: Tersky
            and you have a tricolor nickname ..

            Exactly, it was necessary under the American wit, maybe then my words became more authoritative laughing
            1. Tersky
              Tersky April 3 2013 11: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              maybe then my words became more authoritative

              Sasha, your opponent simply does not accept elementary truths:
            2. tarks
              tarks April 3 2013 11: 26 New
              +2
              ov also has a tricolor. but the star is striped.
            3. Tersky
              Tersky April 3 2013 11: 30 New
              +5
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Exactly, it was necessary under the American wit, maybe then my words became more authoritative

              It is useless, such opponents are far from simple truths:
              “Do not trust what you heard; do not trust traditions as they were handed down from generation to generation; do not trust anything if it is a rumor or majority opinion; do not trust if this is just a record of some old sage; do not trust guesses; do not trust what you think is true, what you are used to; Do not trust the bare authority of your teachers and elders. After observation and analysis, when it is consistent with reason and contributes to the good and benefits of one and everyone, then accept it and live according to it ”Gautama Buddha (400 BC)
          2. Captain Vrungel
            Captain Vrungel April 3 2013 11: 33 New
            +5
            And the serf was given WILL
            Delivered the servile share
            O Ukraine, yours forever.
            But virtually ...
            ... in whom there is no love
            To my native country
            The one in exile sometimes
            He considers himself a folk hero.
            Free from the hardships of the motherland.
          3. Felix200970
            Felix200970 April 3 2013 19: 11 New
            +5
            Плюсую за то, что хоть кто-то вспомнил что Т.Г. Шевченко в первую очередь русский художник и поэт. А один сборник стихов "Кобзар" на украинском - ничто по сравнению с остальным творчеством
        3. cokolkz
          cokolkz April 3 2013 11: 31 New
          +6
          Не знаю на счет вошел Казахстан или нет в Российскую Империю, но вот, то что жизнь в Казахстане сильно подорожала после вступления в Таможенный союз - факт. До этого законы экономические были свои, "мягкие", а теперь большинство казахстанских норм с России "срисовали", а там все сборы и налоги выше.
      2. kontrol
        kontrol April 3 2013 10: 36 New
        +6
        in general, nobody calls you into the Russian empire. to talk about economic relations in the post-Soviet space, due to the strong integration of Ukrainian and Russian enterprises, etc., and it is more convenient for citizens to communicate with each other. And the political leadership will remain with you, nobody needs it
      3. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov April 3 2013 13: 37 New
        +7
        Quote: Skavron
        Неужели вы считаете, что я против нормальных отношений с Россией? Или зла ей желаю? Я просто не хочу жить в Российской империи...дружить с Россией - только "за".

        TS already exists. There are many people from Kazakhstan and from Belarus. Something is not visible that they feel oppressed by Russian imperialism. And what about the Union, Ukraine and Ukrainians lived worse than other nations or Russians? For example, I clearly remember that when I entered the Academy. Mozhaysky (Leningrad) they were given discounts. Children from Ukraine could refuse to write an essay and replace it with a simple dictation. As a result, only on our course there were at least 25% of those received from Ukraine. No one ever discredited officers in the army on the basis of Ukrainian nationality; on the contrary, sometimes Ukrainians achieved posts and ranks somewhat faster than their colleagues. Many of them still successfully serve in the Russian army to this day, received housing and made good careers (Commander of the Air and Space Defense Troops - Major General Alexander Golovko from Kharkov), unlike their brothers, who made a choice towards the Ukrainian army during the collapse Union.
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv April 3 2013 13: 56 New
          +2
          In addition to the above:
          "И́горь Дми́триевич Серге́ев (20 апреля 1938, г. Верхнее Ворошиловградской области [СССР]] — 10 ноября 2006, г. Москва, Россия) — российский государственный и военный деятель.

          Minister of Defense of Russia (1997 — 2001).

          Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation for Strategic Stability (2001 — 2004).

          The first and only Marshal of the Russian Federation (November 21 1997).

          Герой Российской Федерации."
        2. Felix200970
          Felix200970 April 3 2013 19: 42 New
          -3
          Quote: DmitriRazumov
          For example, I clearly remember that when I entered the Academy. Mozhaysky (Leningrad) they were given discounts. Children from Ukraine could refuse to write an essay and replace it with a simple dictation.

          Not very distinct. This privilege was shared by all graduates of national schools. Who in the certificate the first and second position was occupied by the Russian language and literature, respectively, did not have such a privilege. Yes, only writing is easier than dictation lol
          1. Egoza
            Egoza April 3 2013 20: 49 New
            +5
            Quote: Felix200970
            Yes, only writing is easier than dictation

            Ошибаетесь, уважаемый! Во-первых, для сочинения нужно более развитое мышление, творчество, А также, любое сочинение можно "зарубить", написав "не полностью раскрыта тема". А вот против диктанта - не попрешь. Всегда можно сверить с текстом. hi
      4. воронов
        воронов April 3 2013 20: 35 New
        0
        And don’t need to enter somewhere else, otherwise it will lose the status of independence laughing
      5. rolik
        rolik April 3 2013 23: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: Skavron
        She herself needs to restore order, at least in the legislative framework.

        The initiator of restoring order in the zak.base should be power. If the authorities do not need this, accordingly, there will be no order. And for the neck of this power, for starters, the president should be. Ask Yanukovych, does he need this?
        Get an answer, draw conclusions, I want to hope the right ones.
    3. Quit
      Quit April 3 2013 13: 26 New
      -3
      Alexander Romanov,

      А вы,судя по всему,сначала смотрите на флаг,потом на погоны,а только после этого на аргументы и цифры)))).Ну все мы не без изъянов)))Самое главное-аргументировано изъяснять свою позицию,эмоции делу не помогают.Если у вас есть сомнения в цифрах,вы можете сами внимательно проанализировать документы комиссии ТС(если имеете к ним доступ конечно) и балансы Газпрома и консорциума в случае с СП.Мне переубеждать никого не надо,здесь,на форуме,от силы пяток человек наберётся,кто может говорить с цифрами,а не общими фразами из газеты "Известия".И очень наивно думать,что в Украине,население хорошо ориентируется в том,что такое ТС или ассоциация с ЕС.Предпочтения отдаются также,как и на любых выборах в Украине и примерно равны и не в олигархах тут дело.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 13: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: Quit

        And you, apparently, first look at the flag

        On the flag, yes, on shoulder straps no.
        Quote: Quit
        If you have doubts about the numbers, you can carefully analyze the documents of the TS commission yourself

        THOSE. You have analyzed and issued a chip, so you think Nazarbayev and Lukoshenko are complete suckers. Only here is the problem, it is strange that Yanukovych does not agree with your figures, but does not deny the benefits. Although I do not exclude that you are more competent. Than Yanukovych, Lukoshenko and Nazarbayev combined. wink
        1. Quit
          Quit April 3 2013 13: 47 New
          0
          Alexander Romanov,


          I speak the language of numbers, and you bring emotions, thinking that you know well what is in the head of Nazarbayev, Lukashenko or Yanukovych. Think for yourself, look at the numbers and not listen to politicians, they can say anything: they gave a word, a word I took it. And do not fantasize, please, about Yanukovych — he only agrees with himself. In Ukraine, trusting what Yanukovych or Asirov says is equivalent to quoting inscriptions on the fence.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 14: 16 New
            +4
            Quote: Quit
            I speak the language of numbers with you, but

            What are the numbers? Where did you get these numbers? Where are the documents that you refer to? They wrote not to understand what and where, the documents to which you refer to the studio, only not newspaper articles by yellow magazines, at least official announcements.
            1. Quit
              Quit April 3 2013 16: 23 New
              -4
              Alexander Romanov,

              То,что вы не знакомы с официальными документами комиссии ТС я уже понял.Или для вас это недостаточно официально?Там всё в деталях расписано:и по поводу распределения таможенных доходов и по поводу распределения НДС.Тратить время на разжёвывания и писать здесь простыни я не буду-это нужно вам.Тем более,что вы оперируете ссылками на газетные заметки))),а я предлагаю вам поработать и подумать самостоятельно.И,пожалуйста,если отвечаете на цифры-говорите цифрами,мне общение типа" что и у кого в голове",додумывание,домысливание-неинтересно.Цифры,которые я привожу знает любой экономист,анализировавший документы комиссии ТС.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 17: 05 New
                +1
                Quote: Quit
                Or is it not official enough for you?

                Yes, I don’t know you, your fantastic numbers written from a stormy imagination tell me nothing. Where are the links?
                Quote: Quit
                but I suggest you work and think for yourself.

                So I understood, you yourself sat and thought laughing
                Quote: Quit
                . The figures that I quote are known to any economist who has analyzed the documents of the TS commission.

                I won’t even ask for LINKS; all you have is blah blah blah. There’s nothing to talk about.
                1. Quit
                  Quit April 4 2013 14: 31 New
                  -4
                  Alexander Romanov,

                  Yes, I don’t have a clue about you either, therefore, I don’t say how you think in fantasies, but only in numbers. And it makes no difference to me what you think about this, since you have no arguments — pure virtual boltology. If you cannot I’m not going to look at the documents of the Customs Policy Department of the Customs Union Commission of the Customs Union, I’ll not look for you. There’s something to say on the case, say numbers, if not, there’s nothing to talk about. I’ll easily interrupt any of your arguments, because that you are unsubstantiated and do not refer to anything other than the slogans of the leaders. You will first familiarize yourself with documents, and then enter into a serious conversation, rather than into a regular daily booth. I am not interested in a discussion without arguments, I already told you. I don’t like the numbers, bring your own, only qualified, and not from Glazyev’s statement, unsubstantiated. Do not bore with empty answers.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 14: 44 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Quit
                    fantasies like you, but only numbers.

                    A link to the studio on your numbers!
                    Quote: Quit
                    you have no arguments - pure virtual boltology

                    All documents on the vehicle at my fingertips, which one do you need? There is a TS vehicle, everything is there, but you would not bring it, otherwise all your numbers would have gone to dust
                    1. Quit
                      Quit April 4 2013 14: 55 New
                      -2
                      Alexander Romanov,
                      You are a very funny person. I call you in Russian what you need to look at, which department’s documents, or explain to you in Chinese? You don’t have any documents at hand, you haven’t even seen them in your eyes. You will find numbers, analyze, write by I immediately warn you that if you don’t have an economic education, you won’t even understand the budget.
                    2. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 15: 12 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Quit
                      You don’t have any documents at hand, you haven’t even seen them in your eyes

                      La la poplar laughing
                      http://tsouz.ru/db/spec_measures/Pages/def_measures.aspx
                      You can study at your leisure, you are our economist who can’t even confirm his fantastic numbers. All documents on the vehicle are in the public domain, but did not know this wassat
                    3. Quit
                      Quit April 5 2013 16: 22 New
                      0
                      Alexander Romanov,



                      Unlike you, I don’t spend days in the virtual world — there is a real one and there is something to do. And I have my opinion not on the basis of articles from neta, but from real documents coming from the CU Commission to the Ministry of Economy of Ukraine and the relevant BP committees. Study the reference yourself to find the numbers that I’ve talked about, since la-la is constant only for you. You will find the numbers-cite and we’ll talk about something, and switching to personalities for lack of arguments in the net is called a simple non-Russian word-trolling. Without numbers, the conversation is uninteresting to me and further about Saying without them is pointless, because if you don’t like the numbers, give yours. And so all your arguments come down to the fact that if you didn’t read something in the net (a large garbage pit), it means that you don’t. This is naive, by at least. Show that at least in something you understand, except for trolling.
      2. ksandr45
        ksandr45 April 3 2013 15: 58 New
        0
        communicate in numbers
        458749-49543-201=3549358451--1454857487510405817450+58975205857-=4375843054581-4
        854-951-5838034958.
        The iron argument.
  6. Valter
    Valter April 3 2013 14: 38 New
    0
    Квит: "Предпочтения отдаются также,как и на любых выборах в Украине и примерно равны и не в олигархах тут дело." laughing laughing laughing , конечно не в них, они живут себе со своими "честно заработанными капиталами"(особенно не на чужой крови), никогда не вмешиваются в политику, (особенно ахметов laughing ), and of course, through the media under their control, they do not form the so-called public opinion laughing , it's all fantasy, here the population decides everything laughing laughing , путём совершенно "не сфальсифицированных выборов" laughing , laughing .
    PS
    А происходит это всё из-за безразличия и страха населения( давно уже не народа) потерять свою объеденную косточку, бросаемую им так называемыми"элитными" олигархами.
    1. Quit
      Quit April 3 2013 15: 58 New
      -4
      Valter

      No one has been afraid of anything for a long time, it’s just that everyone solves his own problems, and it’s useless to moan what kind of bad power, as well as to think that someone else but us has a problem to solve. - I believe in it, but no good wishes. Everyone sees what he lives in: for you, the population, for me, the people.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 17: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Quit
        With the help of us to solve our problems, I believe in it,

        Russia with the help of Ukraine will solve the problems, well, yes, well, yes laughing
      2. Valter
        Valter April 4 2013 00: 48 New
        0
        Квит:" Уже давно никто и ничего не боится,просто каждый сам решает свои проблемы,а стонать какая плохая власть можно,но бесполезно,так же как и думать,что кому-то,кроме нас есть дело до наших проблем.С помощью нас решить свои проблемы-в это верю,а в благие пожелания-нет.Каждый видит то,в чём он живёт:для вас-население,для меня-народ."
        Nobody is afraid of anything in your American dreams laughing , ".Каждый видит то,в чём он живёт" вот с этим согласен: вы живёте в Америке и видите вашу, несколько иную(значительно отличающуюся от нашей) реальность,
        http://kp.ua/daily/020413/387142/ скажите мне: вот эти люди смогут решить( настоящие потерпевшие) самостоятельно свои проблемы? Что то, в это слабо верится, но тот, который убил двоих медиков- конечно сможет, вы о говорите о таких людях и конечно же подобные им решают свои проблемы сами( было б удивительно, если бы, они самостоятельно садились в тюрьму, тогда наверное вы бы приехали назад из своей американской мечты laughing ), and I’ll also tell you not a big secret (only you don’t tell anyone laughing laughing ): in certain regions of Ukraine are engaged in slavery:
        http://podrobnosti.ua/podrobnosti/2012/08/17/853096.html, ещё совершенно беззаконная( выбирайте что больше нравится laughing ) judicial, law enforcement (those tortures that are used there, the Gestapo never dreamed of laughing) системы, не большой эпизод из доблестной полной риска и опасности и конечно же совсем не простой жизни милиции http://old.atn.ua/newsread.php?id=35739 А где же народ? Почему подобным людишкам всё сходит с рук? Ах да, я забыл: как вы там сказали:"Уже давно никто и ничего не боится,просто каждый сам решает свои проблемы" Дружище! laughing Well, again, to the very point laughing : such people (by the way, only about 2 percent of them) solve their problems themselves and nothing, or rather, they have not been afraid of anyone for a long time, because the population here. The people (which, as you say, here somewhere we have) will not tolerate this, our respected population and similar everyday affairs are part of today's life. You know what the People (except for abstruse definitions) are conscious people who understand the following: if today someone was illegally imprisoned, or somehow infringed on their rights (not to mention torture and other lawlessness), then tomorrow this can happen to everyone and only a COLLECTIVE confrontation of the like (not some kind of demonstrations with flags, or other nonsense, but serious decisive actions) will not allow the authorities to do this with people, and when people understand this, they act together (going to the end) - they are called the People.
        1. Quit
          Quit April 4 2013 14: 20 New
          -3
          Valter

          Who has offended you so much in life that you have such an opinion about your own people? Everyone in life can have difficult periods, but why carry their own negativity from life. Success! And don’t take a bad example, don’t write sheets.
        2. Quit
          Quit April 4 2013 14: 47 New
          0
          Valter

          What makes you think that I live in America? I am a native Kiev citizen, and I see all the problems every day, I try to solve them whenever possible, since there are some opportunities. Therefore, I say the people, not the population. There is another problem - provincial thinking and low awareness of people not only about what is happening in the country, but also in neighboring regions.
          1. Valter
            Valter April 5 2013 21: 10 New
            0
            Quit:
            "Кто вас так в жизни обидел,что вы такого мнения о собственном народе?"
            Yes, no one offended me, I'm just a realist.
            "И не берите дурной пример-не пишите простыни" Сколько мне будет надо, столько, и напишу laughing
            "С чего вы взяли,что я в Америке живу?" Ну пока у вас американский флаг светится, а не Украинский. Говорить о том что живёт в Киеве может каждый laughing
            "..пробую решать их по возможности,благо некоторые возможности есть" Понятно что вы не относитесь к простым смертным ( к тем, о которых говорится во мною приведённых ссылках выше)
            "Есть другая проблема-провинциальность мышления и низкая информированность людей не только о том,что происходит в стране,но и в соседних регионах." Где то в границах штата Техас живёте что ль? laughing So in your country is Obama (Negro) president, even though this is, you know? laughing
            PS
            You did not answer the main questions given above, but wrote different scribbles related to your opinion, which was not supported by anything.
  7. ksandr45
    ksandr45 April 3 2013 15: 55 New
    0
    And all! You, star-striped, for the sins of your government, no longer have faith. Be. hi
  • erased
    erased April 3 2013 09: 10 New
    +7
    You will chase after two hares - you will stick a muzzle into a tree. Here the authorities of the Outskirts are scratching their turnips now - they are choosing a tree. And you need a hare.
    Is it going to split the country?
  • Concept1
    Concept1 April 3 2013 09: 22 New
    +9
    Funny all in that! So that now Ukraine and the EU do not do all their combination, the final results are beneficial for Russia. Such a time! smile
    1. avt
      avt April 3 2013 09: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: concept1
      Funny all in that! So that now Ukraine and the EU do not do all their combination, the final results are beneficial for Russia. Such a time!

      And here I agree! good Moreover, the main thing is not to yawn by yourself and think less according to Yeltsin’s precepts in the morning what you did for Ukraine. And then this theory is that Ukraine is a river between Russia and Europe and someone who owes them a bridge, preferably a golden one, doesn’t even make laugh and annoy.
      1. Nicholas C.
        Nicholas C. April 3 2013 12: 04 New
        17
        Quote: avt
        And here I agree!

        Ну не совсем так. Как я себе представляю, до прихода оранжевой власти Россия вполне спокойно ждала развития событий на Украине и продолжала экономическое сотрудничество в полном объёме (с учётом общего развала). Приход помаранчевой власти, для которой нарушать же собственную украинскую Конституцию было делом незалежной доблести и геройства - Ющенко, Тимошенко и Яценюк делали явные и тайные шаги для вступления Украины в НАТО - привёл Россию к естественному выводу - необходимо уходить от зависимости от Украины. А это не только потоки с газом или порт Луга, через который стали отправлять нефть. Это замещение всей украинской продукции - и военной, и гражданской. Сейчас идёт такой процесс. Металлургам (отрасль - основная статья доходов Украины) построили такой стан, который может выпускает продукцию, которую ранее покупали на Украине. И т.п. Даже такому серьёзному и, главное, порядочному партнёру как "Мотор-Сич" с Богуслаевым строят замену на базе КБ Климова. Насколько помню, завод должен заработать в 15 или 16м году. Поэтому затягивание Украине на пользу не идёт точно. Т.к. союз-не союз, но на потерянный рынок соответствующие буржуи их не пустят. И ожидать подарков, как при СССР, когда из Ярославля переселили в Кременчуг будущий КРАЗ и т.п., не стоит. А в Европе просто украинская продукция никому не нужна, своим надо давать зарабатывать. Хочется жить как немцы или швейцарцы, понимаю Только с чего бы?

        In Ukraine, regardless of the authorities, Svidomo propaganda is taught at the school (it is propaganda, not education, because education does not smell there). Main thought: mosk русский - главный враг украинской земли. И чем дальше, тем всё подлее. Бандерва в-открытую говорит, что ждёт, когда вымрут "совки", которые помнят об общем прошлом.

        Вся Западная Украина без Волыни - 7 млн. Галичина - 5 млн. (да и те наполовину на заработках). Закарпатье и даже Черновцы совсем не тоже самое, что Галичина. Остальная Украина воевала против Гитлера и побеждала фашизм вместе с нами. Сейчас там не только во Львове фашистские боевики избивают 90летних стариков на 9е Мая. Они уже грозят всей Украине, там где хотят отметить Победу над фашизмом, например освобождение своего города, что приедут избивать "5ю колонну".

        So I do not understand the motives of Yanukovych. Is he in such a muddy situation hoping to always win? Europe will be the first to throw him out, as if he had not dressed up as a guarantor of European interests. The further you do nothing, the worse for ALL. And, first of all, for Ukraine.
      2. tomas.09
        tomas.09 April 3 2013 17: 33 New
        +1
        Russia then will live without Ukraine, Kazakhstan, etc. The question is whether the rest will live without Russia. They will simply forget that there is such a country, Russia, and will live independently.
  • General
    General April 3 2013 09: 24 New
    +9
    Ukraine is a good state as its peopleI hope to make the right choice that will be beneficial to them and not to others
  • radar75
    radar75 April 3 2013 09: 35 New
    -15
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle. And we really do something ourselves. By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 09: 48 New
      13
      Quote: radar75
      You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle.

      Yes, no one is forcing you into anything; you, with your independence, are already tired of everyone. Dance with anyone you want, only then Russia will again be to blame for your troubles.
      Quote: radar75
      By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.

      Your skull on shoulder straps confirms this laughing Hello, Yushchenko, pass on.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky April 3 2013 10: 28 New
        12
        Quote: radar75
        opinion polls, Ukrainians are better Russians than Russians are Ukrainians.

        the answer is simple - in Russia they organize the torchlight (fecal) processions in honor of the fascist henchmen., do not cancel Victory Day, there are no Yatsenyuk calling for barricades against the damned boys.
        1. Valter
          Valter April 3 2013 15: 30 New
          -2
          Терский :" ...не отменяют День Победы..."
          So, no one has canceled Victory Day here, just not everyone likes it, but the parades are passing. One thing only upsets: When the German ex-soldiers are shown, they do not look very bad, and our veterans are almost gone, and those who are living out their last years in poverty and monuments of the Great Patriotic War (very bloody war for us all) desecrated even in Russia.
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz April 3 2013 10: 30 New
        -4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Yes, no one is forcing you to anything

        ?? laughing
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        you, with your independence, are already tired of everyone

        What irritates you so much about the independence of Ukraine?
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Then again, Russia will be to blame for your troubles.

        Let’s already have your links. Stop talking.

        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Your skull on shoulder straps confirms this

        Of course confirmation. Only I would not be happy at all. This is a confirmation that there can be no other point of view. Well, petty revenge. I can understand the disadvantages of insulting someone. But radar75 always writes politely. So the skull on his shoulder straps is a kind of moral indicator of opponents.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 11: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          ??

          Offers were and are. But but not coercion !!!
          Quote: gladiatorakz

          What irritates you so much about the independence of Ukraine?

          Yes, I only hear about it, and that's why I'm tired of it.
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          Let’s already have your links. Stop talking

          Dear, well, do not scoff at me. Yesterday I posted so many of these links, there, too, enjoyed it from Kazakhstan, go to yesterday’s topic and read as much as you want.
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          But radar75 always writes politely.

          You can politely write, but preferably without lies.
          Quote: gladiatorakz
          So the skull on his shoulder straps is a kind of moral indicator of opponents.

          It’s strange that in this case you don’t have a skull, since we are all so immoral what
          1. TRAFFIC
            TRAFFIC April 3 2013 12: 28 New
            -1
            Strange, I went to http://www.stat.kz/, for some reason there is no breakthrough in trading with the TS in statistics, for example
            January-December 2012 January-December 2011 Growth rate%

            Foreign trade turnover 136 825,0 124 658,7 109,8
            CIS countries 34 749,6 31 098,3 111,7
            other countries 102 075,4 93 560,4 109,1
            total with CU countries 24 625,5 23 029,1 106,9
            экспорт 92 285,6 87 603,0 105,3
            "страны СНГ,
            из них:" 12 556,1 12 213,7 102,8
            Россия 6 747,4 6 998,6 96,4
            Belarus 90,4 104,7 86,3
            total with CU countries 6 837,8 7 103,3 96,3
            other countries 79 729,5 75 389,3 105,8
            импорт 44 539,4 37 055,7 120,2
            "страны СНГ,
            из них:" 22 193,5 18 884,6 117,5
            Россия 17 111,9 15 332,0 111,6
            Belarus 675,8 593,8 113,8
            total with CU countries 17 787,7 15 925,8 111,7
            other countries 22 345,9 18 171,1 123,0
            It can be seen that trade with the CU grew by only 6.9 percent, while exports fell by 3.7%, while imports grew by 11.7%, is this definitely beneficial to Kazakhstan?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 13: 00 New
              0
              Quote: TRAFIC
              It can be seen that trade with the CU grew by only 6.9 percent, while exports fell by 3.7%, while imports grew by 11.7%, is this definitely beneficial to Kazakhstan?

              You want it to be fruitful in a couple of months, but it doesn’t.
              1. TRAFFIC
                TRAFFIC April 3 2013 13: 13 New
                +1
                Well, it seems like more than two years have passed, while Belarus has probably won the most from the TS, let's see what happens next.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 14: 18 New
                  0
                  Quote: TRAFIC
                  Well, it seems like more than two years have passed, while Belarus probably won the most from the TS

                  What exactly Kazakhstan got and what raped it from yesterday’s article, read the comments of the Kazakhs.
                  1. Skavron
                    Skavron April 3 2013 17: 31 New
                    0
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    What exactly Kazakhstan got and what raped it from yesterday’s article, read the comments of the Kazakhs.

                    Judging by yesterday’s link, Kazakhstan hasn’t received it, but SHOULD GET.
                    So ... he still didn’t have anything.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 05: 12 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Skavron
                      Judging by yesterday’s link, Kazakhstan hasn’t received it, but SHOULD GET.
                      So ... he still didn’t have anything

                      I see you didn’t read what the guests from Kazakhstan wrote to you. Well, you can listen to Quita, there aren’t any links there one blah blah blah.
                      1. Skavron
                        Skavron April 4 2013 09: 41 New
                        -1
                        I will give you a link in which I indicate that you had breakfast, but you really did not eat, I wonder if you will become less hungry after my link? laughing
                        I don’t suffer from demagogy, I believe my eyes and not links.
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov April 4 2013 12: 52 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Skavron
                        I don’t suffer from demagogy, I believe my eyes and not links.

                        Skavron April 2, 2013 22:54 | Knocking on the EEC, or What will be the borders of the Eurasian Economic Union? 0
                        Quit clarified more clearly than I
                        thank you to him


                        Skavron April 2, 2013 22:52 | Knocking on the EEC, or What will be the borders of the Eurasian Economic Union? 0
                        Quit clarified


                        Without links and precisely with the eyes wink
                      3. Skavron
                        Skavron April 9 2013 10: 40 New
                        0
                        Without links and precisely with the eyes

                        by the way, on your link all oh how not fun)))
                        so thank you too.
                      4. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov April 9 2013 10: 43 New
                        0
                        Quote: Skavron
                        , your link is all oh how not fun)))

                        Only those who don’t want pluses will not be able to find them, and those who can’t count can not see the benefits hi
      3. Kasym
        Kasym April 3 2013 18: 49 New
        +8
        The growth of trade between the countries of the CU:
        2010 - 47 billion
        2011 - 63 billion
        По заявлению дир. департамента тамож. инфрас. Евр. Экон. Коммисии Владимира Скиба : "До конца года 2012 г. товарооборот возрастет на 42% по сравнению к концу 2011г. "
        2010 Export of KZ to Russia by 36%
        2011 Export of KZ to Russia by 26% from 2010; short-term imports from Russia 32%
        The growth of trade between the KZ and Belarus over 2 years is more than 100%.
        Regards, Dauren. hi
  • denisey
    denisey April 3 2013 10: 26 New
    0
    Quote: radar75
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle. And we really do something ourselves. By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.

    you hooked such a cool avatar like that, but you didn’t ask how people in Ukraine felt (relatives with the names Glushko, Protsko, etc.) were on the side of Russia in the war 08.08.08
  • andrejwz
    andrejwz April 3 2013 10: 27 New
    +3
    Quote: radar75
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle.

    And you, dear, the address when typing the name of the site were not mistaken? We are here, and in this article in particular, discuss RUSSIAN issues. And since Gilichina is attached as an appendage to Russian Ukraine, we perceive the discord in Ukrainian politics as a problem that cannot occupy us.
  • gorku68
    gorku68 April 3 2013 10: 52 New
    +7
    Да все бы так 75 радар. Но Мать у меня в "заложниках" у Вас, сестра с семьёй, могила отца и Родина Детства. Вы как нибудь Сами, лично я вижу худо там. Мне в Имперской России комфортнее живётся чем в Самостийной всем моим родным и знакомым вместе. Плюнуть, всех своих забрать и смотреть когда же Вас к нам "прибьёт". Но Родина Детства...
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs April 3 2013 14: 31 New
    +3
    I don’t like when they look at me through the front sight, even if it’s an avatar. Avatar also says a lot.
  • rolik
    rolik April 4 2013 00: 03 New
    0
    Quote: radar75
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle. And we really do something ourselves. By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.

    Yes, you go to the forest. Scream yourself. that you are being deceived by the poor all the time. But in one thing, we are right now with a lot of our affairs. The country needs to be developed, fleet, army ..... catch up. If you can)))
  • Natalia
    Natalia April 3 2013 09: 39 New
    10
    Hi everyone!)))
    It’s just time for Ukraine to really decide, and to make at least some choice even if it’s not right three times (I mean the EU) .... but nevertheless, Ukraine will not get completely independent in the global world (where it’s washing its hand) ... .. well, that’s not it.
    Я согласна с тем мнением что после Януковича к власти в Украине придут русофобы, ибо......все происходящие во внешней политике Украины можно назвать как неудачная попытка заиграть с Россией: "Ну вот мол пытались с ними подружиться они кочевряжатся давайте дружить с Европой, назло России".
    1. Natalia
      Natalia April 3 2013 09: 43 New
      +8
      At the same time, Russia + Ukraine + Belarus + Kazakhstan = a completely new combat-ready geopolitical FORCE, with which the EU cannot do anything ..... and no one can.
      1. Sirocco
        Sirocco April 3 2013 09: 57 New
        +5
        Quote: Natalia
        with which the EU can’t do anything ..... and no one can.

        It is precisely on this occasion that Europe is doing everything possible to prevent the unification scenario. And through whom does he do it? All this policy is going on through the business of exchanges. In which grandmothers and other property acquired by overwork, is in Europe (Cyprus is a confirmation of this). The situation with the change of presidents in Ukraine has not changed dramatically. They are also trying to sit on two chairs. As a result of which I conclude that President Yanukovych is a puppet in the hands of large coin owners of Ukraine. who care about their interests. A kind of wonderland in the land of eccentrics.
      2. Valter
        Valter April 3 2013 15: 44 New
        +2
        Наталия : "В тоже время, Россия + Украина + Белоруссия + Казахстан = совершенно новая боеспособная геополитическая СИЛА, с которой ЕС ну ни че поделать не сможет.....и никто не сможет."
        You forget about the immeasurable corruption that is present in the first two countries you have listed and it will not be difficult for anyone to use it to do everything that is necessary.
        1. Conepatus
          Conepatus April 3 2013 16: 04 New
          +4
          Russian corruption, before the Ukrainian, as before the moon with cancer
        2. Natalia
          Natalia April 3 2013 16: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Valter
          You forget about the immeasurable corruption that is present in the first two countries you have listed and it will not be difficult for anyone to use it to do everything that is necessary.

          ......Yes Yes...
        3. xan
          xan April 3 2013 19: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Valter
          You forget about the immeasurable corruption that is present in the first two countries you have listed and it will not be difficult for anyone to use it to do everything that is necessary.

          They would have used it a long time ago, at least Russia would have been forced to sign an energy charter.
          And only whine
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 09: 51 New
      +4
      Quote: Natalia

      Hi everyone!))

      Hi beauty, you came to Sait early in the morning, why aren’t we working winked
      Quote: Natalia
      to become completely independent of Ukraine in the global world (where a hand washes a hand) DOES NOT GET ..... well, it won’t work out.

      Now the lads will come with an independent and you will learn a lot about yourself laughing
      1. Natalia
        Natalia April 3 2013 11: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Hi beauty, you came to Sait early in the morning, why aren’t we working

        Hi Sasha, yes, actually we work, but it’s a beautiful time for you too .... no, no, no.
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Now the lads will come with an independent and you will learn a lot about yourself

        .... lol oh well .... I'm loving)))
        1. Natalia
          Natalia April 3 2013 11: 27 New
          +9
          I don’t even almost doubt that such a geopolitical alliance of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan will radically turn the whole situation in Europe from a poor level to a very very bad one, and allow Europe to be turned into an economic appendage of the CU countries ..... and this is not even a myth, due to the peculiarity of the territory ..... its size (CU), no matter what decision within the EU itself they will be forced to play according to the new rules created on the basis of the CU.
          1. Jurkovs
            Jurkovs April 3 2013 14: 36 New
            +3
            I agree. Plus for the comment.
    3. krisostomus
      krisostomus April 3 2013 15: 28 New
      +4
      А что Вы называете "полностью независимым"? Полностью независимым был только Робинзон Крузо на своем острове-государстве, а все остальные очень сильно зависят - от рынков сбыта, сырья и продовольствия, технологий и многого другого. И в чем надо непременно определяться Украине? И почему выбор только между Россией и Евросоюзом?
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv April 3 2013 15: 47 New
        0
        Robinson Crusoe depended on Friday and mistress of fate
      2. Natalia
        Natalia April 3 2013 16: 02 New
        0
        Quote: krisostomus
        And why the choice is only between Russia and the European Union?

        Yes no no, what are you ..... the choice is huge:
        between Zimbabwe and Papua New Guinea
        between Cote D Ivoire and Senegal
        between Botswana and Mozambique ......... I just thought it a sinful thing that Ukraine is prettier than the EU or Russia. And I also thought that Mozambique is much further than the EU and Russia ..... well, I don’t know if you think otherwise ..... winked
      3. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 17: 09 New
        +3
        Quote: krisostomus
        And why the choice is only between Russia and the European Union?

        And where else should she go to Africa chtol laughing
      4. illarion
        illarion April 3 2013 19: 31 New
        0
        Do you offer Ukraine to join Estonia?
      5. rolik
        rolik April 4 2013 12: 05 New
        0
        Quote: krisostomus
        And why the choice is only between Russia and the European Union?

        Here it is the seed of truth. Therefore, on energy, we are now increasingly meeting with representatives of the east, not Europe.
    4. Conepatus
      Conepatus April 3 2013 16: 03 New
      +3
      After Yanukovych, Beria is needed and preferably in every region.
      1. rolik
        rolik April 4 2013 12: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: Conepatus
        After Yanukovych, Beria is needed and preferably in every region

        Look here: the first was Kravchuk - now he is vilified at all angles, then Kuchma - the same story, then the mutant Yushchenko - the mutant in all respects, now Yanukovych. Each subsequent one is worse than the previous one. Maybe you should already choose not according to words but to deeds?
        Although there were no alternatives, as I understand it. Choose between a mutant and Yanukovych.
  • slavik_gross
    slavik_gross April 3 2013 09: 49 New
    +4
    Unfortunately, all of Ukraine has no future, as some want to be with Russia, and the other hate it. Sooner or later, they will have to make a choice, and it will be difficult for the entire Ukrainian people ...
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel April 3 2013 14: 12 New
      +8
      Do not confuse the people of Ukraine with crooks who plundered Ukraine, robbing people, crawled into power and strengthened its mafia structures of their clan from encroachments temporarily pushed back.
      Янукович, это безропотная марионетка в руках сына, Януковича СС (саша стоматолог).который обезопасил папу своими верными, близкими друзьями ("семья" короче) и используя власть и силу, подминают под себя все, на что глаз упал. Не о народе они думают. Другие планы. Все подмять под себя и закрепиться ханом в паханате Уркаины. А что народ? За него уже все решили и распределили. И когда Вы видите митингующих в наши стремные дни, в рабочее время не на рабочих местах, ясно , что вывели своих подневольных и прикупленных для массовки штатных массовиков. Народ работает за кусок хлеба для семьи. и если он выйдет, то не с флагами и лозунгами, а с вилами и др. подручным ударно-летаюшими предметами. Никакой цвет флага не спасет. Народ в гневе становится дальтоником.
  • FC SKIF
    FC SKIF April 3 2013 09: 51 New
    +4
    Let Putin give guarantees of the inviolability of Ukrainian property. the elite. He is a man of his word, he must be believed. Yanukovych and Co. simply do not have another alternative. When the plants fall apart and all the gas goes around, it will be more difficult to negotiate.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 April 3 2013 10: 11 New
      +1
      On the news, the news has passed. Ukraine will buy Russian gas in Europe. In my opinion they are themselves .... cheated.
      1. Genur
        Genur April 3 2013 17: 04 New
        0
        He is not a crest who does not deceive himself
      2. morpex
        morpex April 3 2013 23: 40 New
        -2
        Quote: Boris55
        On the news, the news has passed. Ukraine will buy Russian gas in Europe.

        Ukraine in March 2013 almost did not buy gas from Russia due to an unsettled price issue. “We are in negotiations with Russian colleagues. But I want to note that during March we practically did not purchase gas from the territory of Russia. This is primarily because the issue of the pricing position has not been resolved, ”Interfax-Ukraine quotes. Ukraine has begun reverse supplies of natural gas from Hungary. Ukraine can annually import 5 billion cubic meters of natural gas purchased on spot markets through Hungary. Now the price of gas in spot markets is 380 dollars per thousand cubic meters, while Ukraine now pays Russia a little more than 420 dollars per thousand cubes, taking into account the so-called discount in 100 dollars.
        Russia will be forced to revise prices for its Ukrainian partners so as not to completely lose its largest customer, who paid more than 14 billion dollars for gas last year.
        Only business. Nothing personal ...
        1. rolik
          rolik April 4 2013 12: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: morpex
          Ukraine began reverse supplies of natural gas from Hungary

          Ours already saw through this joke, the cunning Ukrainian gas workers. What they call reverse gas is also sleeping .... Russian gas. They simply run the gas around the ring and it turns out that it’s not stolen gas. They did it in vain, because it’s worse to deceive ours. After the southern stream, the passage of gas through the territory of the territory is cut off. Then it will be really fun.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza April 9 2013 22: 01 New
            0
            Quote: rolik
            After the southern stream, the passage of gas through the territory of the territory is cut off. Then it will be really fun.

            Already fun!
            "Национальная акционерная компания "Нафтогаз Украины" за 2012 год по украинским стандартам бухгалтерского учета получила чистый убыток в размере 10,271 млрд гривен.
            This is stated in the company’s message in the disclosure system of the National Commission for Securities and Stock Market (NKTSBFR).
            2011 год "Нафтобаз" завершил с чистой прибылью в 7,763 млрд гривен.
            At the same time, the company's revenue for the 2012 year amounted to 108,061 billion hryvnias against 123,048 billion for the 2011 year.
            Напомним, "Нафтогаз Украины" является ведущей компанией топливно-энергетического комплекса Украины, газовым монополистом страны.
            http://finance.obozrevatel.com/economy/92154-naftogaz-zakonchil-2012-s-10-mlrd-g
            rn-ubyitka.htm
            xxxxx
            But Poland proudly stated that it would not support Russian projects to lay the Russian gas pipeline to the detriment of Ukraine !!!! Nude Nude!
    2. illarion
      illarion April 3 2013 19: 35 New
      0
      I don’t understand, are the Ukrainian voters alone in the voting booths? Or did they accompany them ?.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza April 3 2013 21: 07 New
        +1
        Quote: illarion
        I do not understand, are Ukrainian voters alone in the voting booths?

        I explain (as an observer)
        600 voters registered at the polling station
        Delivered - for voting for the party - 500 ballots
        For voting for the majority - 480
        Мотивация - "Все равно все голосовать не придут"!
        Вопрос "на засыпку" - а куда потом деваются недоставленные бюллетени и почему так долго не могут подсчитать результат? (2-3 недели)
  • 755962
    755962 April 3 2013 09: 57 New
    +4
    Someday history will put everything in its place .... This is inevitable. If you want to have a future, remember the past.
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik April 3 2013 10: 02 New
    +1
    Quote: radar75
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle. And we really do something ourselves. By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.


    Dear Ukrainian! Such is the will of fate and time, that we often have to deal purely with your problems, because you yourself somehow got lost, but you want to eat! And polls what polls? Sorry, but you get gas at what price? No gas theft? you have discounts on many contracts and on the basis of what? You have to answer for everything, just now there comes a moment when you must already say with whom you are! Even the EU has ceased to arrange your position purely! Therefore, enough to drift in world politics, decide already! or others will determine.
  • Dwarfik
    Dwarfik April 3 2013 10: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: FC Skiff
    Let Putin give guarantees of the inviolability of Ukrainian property. the elite. He is a man of his word, he must be believed. Yanukovych and Co. simply do not have another alternative. When the plants fall apart and all the gas goes around, it will be more difficult to negotiate.


    Moreover, there will be nothing to negotiate! In Ukraine, the interests of the Russian Federation and the EU collide and it is very possible as the scenario for the division of the country wrote above!
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic April 3 2013 10: 14 New
    13
    Kuchma came up with a multi-vector policy. In those conditions of the 90s when Russia
    легла под власть Запада и полностью зависела от кредитов МВФ это была единственная возможность хоть как то проводить независимую политику а главное делить доставшуюся после распада СССР собственность между "своими" олигархами". Тем не менее, сегодня Украина впадает в другую крайность, когда единственным вариантом построения отношений с Западом и Востоком признаётся только mechanism of the game on the contradictions of both sides. In this troubled water, Kiev hopes to grab its fish. But in this case, the Ukrainian authorities such fishing will come sideways. Kuchma experienced this in his own skin, when the Americans were tired of his multi-vector nature, and with the next turn in the direction of Russia, Leonid Danilovich was deftly knocked down by pro-Western revolutionaries.
    In general, all Ukrainian non-fallacy has historically been defined as the notorious multi-vector approach. The same Bogdan Khmelnytsky faithfully served the Polish crown first, then, together with the Tatars, robbed this crown, and then pondered for a long time who it is better to be with. Return to the Polish king to bow? Make a long-term alliance with the Mohammedans? To fall under the authority of the Orthodox Russian Tsar?
    And when, having pricked a mustache to the oslelets, the Kozaki decided that profitable to be under the Russian Orthodox Tsar, only then was the famous Pereyaslavl.
    All the same, the Russian tsar is his own and will not blame the sins of multi-vectorism in the form of participation in the siege of Smolensk, along with Polish troops and other campaigns under the red and white banner of the Polish eagle.
    Getman Ivan Bryukhovetsky, Ivan Vygovsky, Ivan Mazepa, Petro Doroshenko, the son of Bogdan Khmelnitsky Yuri and others, have been allied with the Crimean Khan and the Ottoman Empire, the Commonwealth and the Kingdom of Sweden more than once, thereby laying the foundations of modern multi-vector.
    As you can see, the style of government of the Ukrainian elite has not changed since then. the eternal desire "to eat fish and ride a scarab", what we see now in any political situation in Ukraine.
    It’s just that he pays for this desire and feels the people of Ukraine and Russia in his own skin,
    The thousand-year history of our peoples is so closely intertwined and woven together by centuries-old spiritual and cultural ties that the division into three nationalities is nonsense. The unification processes between our peoples have always been crowned with the creation of powerful state which not everyone took with joy.
    In such cases, the infection of multi-vector approach is the best suited for weakening the united Russian people. Only a reckless and even more criminal orientation towards the West can be worse.
    1. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs April 3 2013 14: 40 New
      0
      In one geopolitical space, it is impossible to formulate two geopolitical ideas.
  • Egoza
    Egoza April 3 2013 10: 18 New
    13
    Everyone is calm! BP is locked again! At night they watch the rostrum! laughing
    Классно устроились ребята! Им туда вареники домашние носят, "шоб не охляли", вот только свет выключают, а без света там в зале страшно! (по словам нардеповки) Яйцами вот женщин ПР забросали, когда они вышли из здания...Весело у нас! Кстати, тут у меня спрашивали про американский полицейский газ "джей-флоп". Говорят вещь безопасная (для здоровья), но очень помогает, страдающим запорами. Т.е. малую дозу вдохнул и ....неожиданность в брюках. Собрались тут оппозицию в следующий раз встретить! laughing No one in the know is this?
    Так что сначала все таки внутри надо разобраться, а то с такими "подарками" как наша оппа неприлично в союз вступать.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov April 3 2013 11: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: Egoza
      Everyone is calm! BP is locked again! At night they watch the rostrum!

      Elena, yes, everything is calm, it's even more than usual laughing
      Quote: Egoza
      No one in the know is this?

      You want to bubble a balloon in Rada, the world has not seen such a show wassat
      I can’t even imagine what will happen in your parliament, if Yanek says we’ll go to the TS, it will be complete ....... wassat wassat wassat
      1. tarks
        tarks April 3 2013 11: 28 New
        +2
        if Yanek says let's go to the vehicle, it will be full .......

        .... spray can!
      2. Conepatus
        Conepatus April 3 2013 16: 13 New
        +3
        Whatever Yanek says, nothing will come out anyway. In vain you are afraid of Ukraine’s accession to the EU. For if Ukraine joins the EU, then all this is an EU ass and this is unambiguous !!!!!! , or TS. On the sly, they tear the EU apart, they will not be able to understand how they became poor. In Europe there are no analogues of our corruption. Goat is nostra-babble compared to the Yanyka family.
  • ovgorskiy
    ovgorskiy April 3 2013 10: 20 New
    +4
    Yes, in fact, the situation is not so deadlock. It is enough to simply hold a popular referendum, invite observers from all interested parties and agree with its results. I think both the EU and Russia will accept the will of the people and lag behind Ukraine. All this is not so expensive and long. Why won't the rulers in Ukraine do this?
    1. Selevc
      Selevc April 3 2013 10: 41 New
      +5
      The whole incident is that no one has been seriously interested in the opinion of the Ukrainian people for a long time !!! For 20 years, they have been hammering their brains with outright propaganda about European gingerbread cookies !!!
      At the same time, they didn’t specifically say nirazu what exactly the ordinary Ukrainian would benefit from European integration ... Because even a hedgehog is clear that nifiga will not win but only become impoverished completely !!!
      1. Orik
        Orik April 3 2013 11: 23 New
        +5
        That's right, let ordinary Ukrainians look at the Bulgarians, Latvians and others. Less production, plus prices and all ...
        Guys we have nothing to share, we are one people! Together, we are not twice as powerful, but tens of times.
    2. Anphy
      Anphy April 3 2013 13: 26 New
      12
      I, too, was a supporter of the referendum. But I realized that he would not give anything. It will be the same as in the presidential election. Those. about 50 to 50. For in the Western world, Russia was traditionally not loved, and now even young people with the 120 thousandth history of the Ukrainian people, who were taught at school, have been washed up. And therefore, in my opinion, they do not hold a referendum, because until the result is uncertain, but over time, the number of zombies will increase.

      А когда спрашиваешь у таких: "В чём ты видишь преимущества евроинтеграции", ответ практически один - "А ты посмотри, как в ЕС люди живут".
      И ничем их не проймёшь. Все считают, что стоит туда попасть и с неба посыплются плюшки и печеньки. И никого не убеждает пример "ускоренного" вступления в ВТО, после которого легла немалая часть укропромышленности. Никто не хочет слышать анализы проекта договора с ЕС, который ничего хорошего Украине не сулит.Просто дикость какая-то. Настоящие зомби.
  • artemiy
    artemiy April 3 2013 10: 21 New
    +4
    We see how in the European Union they treat allies! Greece, Cyprus, who is next ??? Ukraine should learn from the mistakes of others! And yet, Ukrainians are Slavs, they are Russian people by mentality!
  • zao74
    zao74 April 3 2013 10: 29 New
    0
    And ordinary Ukrainians are paying for all the ugliness of Yampukovich.
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz April 3 2013 10: 35 New
    -5
    Статья - набор предположений, домыслов и фантазий. Автор - провокатор. Взять любое его "творчество" - он расскажет как все хреново, кто кого предал, продал, ну и финальный абзац это "единственный выход". Глыба!! Вряд ли мозгов. Просто глыба! laughing
  • tarks
    tarks April 3 2013 10: 39 New
    +5
    Once again, the word itself has powerful power. We lost the Cold War not by tank armies, but by words. We prohikhikal country under anecdotes about Brezhnev, fascinated by listening to radio voices. I would like to talk about concrete actions during the discussion of the material.
    Sergey Lunev, On Information Aggression and Information Security, ruska-pravda

    От себя добавлю - самое главное поражение русских - вживление понятия о "трёх братских народах" - т.е. разделение одного народа на три. понятие "братскость" - анестезия. самое главное - подчеркнуть разность.
  • PROXOR
    PROXOR April 3 2013 11: 03 New
    0
    HIGHLY. VERY regrettable thing to read. The most offensive is that this is true. It’s not without exaggeration to destabilize the situation in Ukraine with a possible civil war at our side ... OPA !!! It is now necessary for the Ukrainian people to make it clear themselves, without the participation of their politicians, that they are for integration into the Customs Union. The Civil War will begin, Russia will have to intervene in it. And there vultures from Geyropa will catch up.
  • Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 3 2013 11: 06 New
    +3
    Затрах...., вчера писал : " Юща, Хлыща и Шапокляк - на Колыму!", а не ХОТИТЕ - шагайте в сторону Гейропы, но помните- дорога сзади ЗАРАСТАЕТ! hi
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 3 2013 11: 15 New
      +3
      Quote: Hyus-124
      step towards Geyropa, but remember, the road behind is GROWING! hi

      That you sho! We have such plans!
      (fresher)
      Ukraine can pump Kazakh gas bypassing Russia, - Azarov
      The resumption of direct supplies of Kazakh hydrocarbons to Ukraine meets the interests of both countries. This was stated by Prime Minister Mykola Azarov during a meeting with the First Deputy Prime Minister of the Republic of Kazakhstan Bakitzhan Sagintayev.
      Azarov recalled that the creation of a free trade zone within the framework of the Commonwealth of Independent States provides for the conclusion of an Agreement on free access to pipeline transport of the CIS countries and creates opportunities for direct deliveries of Kazakh oil and gas to Ukraine.
      “We are committed to expanding cooperation in the use of transport, in particular, pipeline. I think that Kazakhstan is also interested in this, because it has sufficient reserves of gas and oil, and it could trade with us not only through the Russian Federation, but also directly, as it was before 2005. This will meet the interests of Kazakhstan and Ukraine, ”Mykola Azarov said.
      He noted that the creation of the Customs Union complicated trade and economic relations within the CIS, and therefore it is now necessary to improve cooperation mechanisms. “We strive in negotiations with the Russian Federation, Kazakhstan and Belarus to develop such a format of relations that the advantages of the free trade zone within the CIS, which we have been preparing for almost 20 years, are filled with real content, and that the framework of the Customs Union does not interfere with the implementation of the provisions on the free trade zone ", - said Azarov.
      http://news2000.com.ua/news/ekonomika/227356
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv April 3 2013 11: 51 New
        0
        That’s not us, but you sho! Your Azarov just blows into the receiver and the keys are pressed backstage. He already built a port for liquefied gas with Italians as they almost sat down on their backs when they learned about such plans. Shale gas rushed to mine with amers. in Severodonetsk they want to build a plant for the production of gas from coal toko mines all have long been gone or abandoned people dig themselves in gardens or abandoned mines to sell and somehow live. You are an adult girl and believe in Azarov’s fairy tales.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza April 3 2013 12: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: mhpv
          You are an adult girl and believe in the tales of Azarov.

          MCHPV! hi You don’t understand humor! Well, you can’t put emoticons on every line! Everyone understands everything perfectly, it’s just very abrupt that all these statements appeared today, when BP didn’t come to anything again! But after April 4, Yanukovych may decide to dissolve the parliament! So the government needs to show how well and promisingly they work! And then suddenly, along with BP, the Cabinet will disperse! laughing
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 12: 57 New
            0
            Guilty, I will correct hi
            1. Egoza
              Egoza April 3 2013 19: 25 New
              0
              Quote: mhpv
              Guilty, I will correct

              Accepted! hi
        2. old rocket man
          old rocket man April 3 2013 13: 58 New
          +2
          Quote: mhpv
          That’s not us, but you sho! Your Azarov just blows into the receiver and the keys are pressed backstage. He already built a port for liquefied gas with Italians as they almost sat down on their backs when they learned about such plans. Shale gas rushed to mine with amers. in Severodonetsk they want to build a plant for the production of gas from coal toko mines all have long been gone or abandoned people dig themselves in gardens or abandoned mines to sell and somehow live. You are an adult girl and believe in Azarov’s fairy tales.

          Yes, my dear, you didn’t understand everything, you attacked the wrong one.
          Elena taunts Azarov, and you all at face value
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 14: 11 New
            0
            Old racketeer how can I attack her, kilometers are between us wink and I apologized to her love
        3. Petr_Sever
          Petr_Sever April 3 2013 18: 17 New
          +1
          "Мало того в Северодонецке хотят построить завод для производства газа из угля"

          Are you serious?
          32 I live not particularly leaving anywhere in this beautiful city, in Lugansk
          I work in OrgChem (if you, of course, know what kind of organization it is)
          so neither hearing nor spirit, and so all 122 inhabitants of our little town.

          Or you Azarov N.Ya. personally whispered in the ear in the queue in the dining room of BP? or
          Renat blurted out so purely on friendship? No, wrong?
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 20: 31 New
            0
            Unlike you, I live far away but occasionally read the site of Lisichansk.
            I bothered to read before under .... for a man unreasonably
          2. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 21: 40 New
            +1
            http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/na-zhitelyax-lisichanska-reshili-postavit-bolshuyu-z
            hirnuyu-tochku.html
            http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/odin-million-dollarov-poluchit-severodoneckij-nii-za
            -vypolnenie-proekta-po-stroitelstvu-zavodov-po-gazifikacii-uglya.html
            here is the whisper of your Azarov and the friendly blunder of Renat.
            Get more interested in how your land lives No.
      2. Jurkovs
        Jurkovs April 3 2013 14: 47 New
        +1
        Бред какой-то по "азаровски". Он что через гиперпространство будет получать газ?
        1. Mhpv
          Mhpv April 3 2013 14: 56 New
          +1
          Больше похоже ,что "задним числом и в устной форме" , а со смазкой или без все равно,лишь бы дешево.
  • Selevc
    Selevc April 3 2013 11: 25 New
    +2
    Еще в начале 90-х Кравчук и Кучма "кормили" народ сказками вроде как о нейтральном курсе Украины... Потом где-то в году 96-97 мом я с удивлением узнал что мы широкими шагами идем в Европу !!!

    Excuse me, but what kind of democracy is this? And they forgot to ask the people of Ukraine (the majority) about where to live and with whom to integrate !!! Therefore, I believe that from the second half of the 90s, dictators ruled Ukraine under the guise of supposedly democracy ...
    1. dropout
      dropout April 3 2013 14: 16 New
      +5
      Quote: Selevc
      And they forgot to ask the people of Ukraine (the majority) about where to live and with whom to integrate !!

      Nobody asked us when they drove into Ukrainian citizenship, they wrote in the passport instead of Vladimir Volodimir, despite my disagreement, when they closed Russian schools, when they dubbed Russian films and introduced hatred towards the pits in every way. And here is the result of over 20 years. Mass propaganda did its own, grew and received a nationalist vaccination for a whole generation. Goebels' good pupils managed, no matter how bitterly, to steal our children. And this is when our future (EU-TS) is discussed, etc. must be reckoned with.
      1. Selevc
        Selevc April 3 2013 20: 35 New
        -1
        As for nationality, a Ukrainian is a difficult question ... Ukraine in its modern form is a combined territory with a very, very different culture, mentality and history ...

        If we take, for example, Eastern Ukraine, then these lands in general have been a wild field for hundreds of years - an absolutely deserted area with rare farmsteads that constantly ravaged and burned down the Tatars ... And as a result of the stubborn and long struggle of Russia with the Crimean Khanate, the population began to reappear on these lands and cities will develop ...

        The southern lands of Ukraine are the result of a long struggle between Russia and Turkey ... Mostly populated by immigrants from various Slavic countries and Jews ...

        The west of Ukraine is Austria-Hungary - that is, a people calling themselves Ukrainians but according to their traditions, mentality, history and language are closer to the countries of Central Europe than to Ukraine itself ...

        And only residents of several central regions can call themselves the core of Ukraine ...

        By and large, modern Ukrainians are a mixture of different Slavic peoples + numerous conquerors undoubtedly left their mark here !!!
        1. Mefodiy
          Mefodiy April 3 2013 20: 52 New
          -3
          Quote: Selevc

          By and large, modern Ukrainians are a mixture of different Slavic peoples + numerous conquerors undoubtedly left their mark here !!!

          Ну да... Сейчас пойдем мерятся ДНК, у кого больше "след" оставило татаро-монгольское иго го.. А потом (может) возьмем циркули (из известных музеев) для измерения черепов???
          1. Selevc
            Selevc April 3 2013 21: 12 New
            0
            Вобще-то циркули здесь совсем не нужны - достаточно посмотреть внимательно на прохожих украинцев на улице - если скандинавов называют "нациями блондинов", французов носатыми :))), румын - цыганами (то есть сходными внешне на этот народ) - then Ukrainians are DIFFERENT and very very different !!!

            And this speaks precisely of the heredity and turbulent past of the people !!! :))) This is probably why Ukrainians are so beautiful !!!
          2. Garrin
            Garrin April 3 2013 22: 04 New
            0
            Quote: Mefodiy
            And then (maybe) take compasses (from famous museums) to measure skulls ???

            Microcephalic and without compass is visible.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv April 3 2013 11: 30 New
    0
    Quote: radar75
    . By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.

    Most opinion polls are fictitious invented by the West for stupefying. In order to earn more money, the agents of these organizations give out the right answer and a small present and ask when they call you from the agency to give a ready answer, trust me, they offered me this, so I don’t believe any opinion polls. And where are you have seen that in Russia Ukrainians are treated badly, what does this mean?
  • Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 3 2013 11: 48 New
    0
    Ув. Егоза, А казахи-то знают, что газ у них - УКРАИНСКИЙ? Или это ход такой "конем"? belay
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 3 2013 12: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Hyus-124
      But do the Kazakhs know that their gas is UKRAINIAN?

      So it’s like you are selling your gas to us, bypassing Russia! repeat
  • Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer April 3 2013 12: 04 New
    +1
    What kind of de-industrialization is the author talking about? Everything has already been plundered and closed 5-10 years ago. There were a couple of mines and several metallurgical plants. New enterprises are not being built, and old ones have long been destroyed.
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik April 3 2013 12: 12 New
    +5
    Нужно элементарно выдержать паузу (что, кстати, и происходит в политике Россия-Украина). Ситуация войдёт в стадию "абсурд" и тогда будет решаться всё быстро и чётко. Вопрос только в том - какой будет исход для самой Незалежной и её народа... recourse And I personally like the country and people (with whom I have talked) really like it! Well, for the brotherhood of the Slavs !! drinks
  • Fastblast
    Fastblast April 3 2013 12: 20 New
    +5
    You really need to decide.
    But, not with the EU and the CU, these issues can wait.
    Why?
    Yes, because in fact it doesn’t matter where to go on a leaky ship, to the Black Sea or the Sea of ​​Azov ...
    First of all, it is necessary to restore order in the country.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron April 3 2013 17: 37 New
      -3
      Quote: Fastblast
      First of all, it is necessary to restore order in the country.

      With two hands FOR!
      Only the local forum does not understand this.
    2. xan
      xan April 3 2013 19: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Fastblast
      First of all, it is necessary to restore order in the country.

      Well, straight kindergarten pants on the straps - who argues with this?
      do you even understand that you will not have a politician or political force capable of doing this. One of the reasons for this, and I think not the main one, is that large uncles will not allow this to be done.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv April 3 2013 12: 21 New
    +1
    http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/samye-nastoyashhie-varvary.html
    http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/na-zhitelyax-lisichanska-reshili-postavit-bolshuyu-z
    hirnuyu-tochku.html
    http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/lisichane-xvatit-naxoditsya-v-spyachke-nash-gorod-gi
    bnet.html
    http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/konvulsii-lisichanskogo-steklozavoda-proletarij.html

    Вот вам пара ссылок господа украинцы на примере одного некогда крупного промышленного города. И Вы еще думаете что с такой промышленностью вы нужны европе, а Россия "шарит по Вашим карманам" где вошь на аркане
    1. Skavron
      Skavron April 3 2013 17: 40 New
      0
      http://www.nkmz.com/Russian/index.html
      http://www.emss.ua/
      http://www.aviaglass.com/history.php
      http://www.kzts.com/
      Well ... offhand ... I can throw a lot more.
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv April 3 2013 20: 49 New
        +1
        the fact that you have thrown off a respected matter of time. Get to them and only finish with what they did not finish, and the products of the enterprises given on the link will also be unprofitable, since who needs your glass because gas is expensive, and metal is from where you come from.
        In general, I didn’t throw off the links for sarcasm, since it pains me to look at the dying city where I was once born
        1. Skavron
          Skavron April 3 2013 22: 50 New
          +1
          and I threw off links to enterprises that were, are and will be.
          Strange, but 2 from the list were restored relatively recently, after a complete collapse.
          Quote: mhpv
          Reaching them will only end with what they haven’t finished, and the products of the enterprises given on the link will also be unprofitable, since who needs your glass, because the gas is expensive, and the metal is where you came from.

          Gas is still expensive, and production is now being sold to the same Russia. Cost-effective without vehicle.
          Metal? Do you know how many metal plants there are in Ukraine? How many GOKs? How much does Ukraine mine ore?
          Yes, and why destroy profitable plants? There is no logic.
          1. Mhpv
            Mhpv April 3 2013 23: 38 New
            -1
            Where does this Ukrainian mine that much ore? If only from the ruined enterprises in such cities here? Your glass in Russia is only necessary in order to get a rollback of its glass companies here completely and Russia has refused your pipes, so do not power yourself with such illusions.
  • VadimSt
    VadimSt April 3 2013 13: 07 New
    +1
    Никто и никуда не стремится! Под "дудку гаранта", украинские власти, как электрон, пытаются лавировать между двумя полюсами, как во внешней, так и во внутренней политике. Это не политическая ошибка. Целью, подобных метаний, является удержание у власти любой ценой. Хаос и последствия их не смущают - главное, завершить раздел и передел собственности в интересах семейных кланов, прильнувших к корыту власти.
  • romuchik
    romuchik April 3 2013 13: 46 New
    +4
    I still don’t understand the Ukrainians, do they really still don’t understand what the geyropa wants from them, what Russia wants from them, why Yushchenko sought European integration, why Yanukovych wants European integration, and what Ukraine will get from European integration, what he will get from joining in the vehicle. It's all on the surface.
    1. the geyropa wants a) just stupidly tear Ukraine away from Russia b) make Ukraine a market for his crap c) hold Ukraine by lackeys (see Cyprus) d) create a NATO base and anger Russia
    2. Russia needs only the fact of Ukraine joining the Customs Union (political reason)
    3. Yushchenko tried to drive Ukraine into a geyropa on the instructions of the United States to tear Russia away
    4. Yanukovych is tearing into a geyropa in the hope of lucrative euro loans to steal them and escape into a geyropa
    5. From entering the geyropu, Ukraine will receive a) a loose loan that will completely destroy the economy of Ukraine, as we are seeing now throughout the geyropa. b) Geyropa will rule Ukraine before the outbreak of civil war and until Ukraine falls apart c) Geyropeyts parades
    6. Upon joining the CU, Ukraine will receive a) a decrease in gas prices (for political reasons) b) a sales market where Ukrainian goods sell well c) integration of high-tech industries and, as a result, economic growth. When joining the TS, nobody will give money stupidly, but it will be possible to earn honestly, it will only be necessary to work, and this is in the long run. And yes, no one is going to interfere in the internal affairs of Ukraine. If you would like it would have already intervened. (Putin, well done, wants everyone to get to the point of being friends with someone who doesn’t stick a knife in your back)
    7. With the independence of Ukraine, the economic situation will deteriorate, so to speak, not as strong as when Ukraine joined the Gayropean Union, but enough that ordinary Ukrainians live below the poverty line.
    8. They say that they are going to extract shale gas in western Ukraine ... It's a pity we can no longer come to you in Miraculous sanatoria with wonderful nature, everything will be saturated with toxic chemicals ...
    1. VadimSt
      VadimSt April 3 2013 15: 01 New
      +4
      Everyone and everyone understands! In a country where the judicial system has been replaced by oprichnina, where the prime minister has to say that Ukrainians have enough to whine, and they need to plant potatoes, where people have only one guaranteed right - to be silent, where the one who has more money is right, where politicians of all stripes have replaced the principle of democracy by the principle of clan interests, to show a civic position, is not just more expensive for oneself, but tantamount to suicide.
  • Byordovvv1
    Byordovvv1 April 3 2013 14: 01 New
    +1
    Народ - это одно, элита - другое. Воровская украинская элита дрефит Запад и Россию, понимая, что и там и тут раскулачивание неизбежно. Вот и вся причина "тянуть резину". Кто возглавит народ и куда повернёт, вот в чём вопрос! России не стоит ковыряться пальчиком в носу и ждать у моря погоды...
  • bazzz
    bazzz April 3 2013 14: 04 New
    +5
    I have the impression that no matter what choice Ukraine makes, the result will be one, or rather a split to the west and east!
  • romuchik
    romuchik April 3 2013 14: 16 New
    +4
    I would like to wish Ukrainians a worthy president, not Yanuk, not Yushch, not Tymoshenko, not this whole bunch, but really smart and worthy who will make the right choice in favor of their people.
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS April 3 2013 14: 30 New
    0
    Quote: opkozak
    We invite


    Can you really help people get a decent week?
    So that the price of rental housing is not going through the roof? Yes, to be fed adequately?
  • Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 3 2013 14: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Egoza
    Quote: Hyus-124
    But do the Kazakhs know that their gas is UKRAINIAN?

    So it’s like you are selling your gas to us, bypassing Russia! repeat

    I just have the flag of Varangian (I don’t know why), and the region is faithful (124). hi
  • Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 3 2013 14: 58 New
    +1
    And in general, the question is under discussion: Be sure to call shit - ELITE? Maybe somehow more truthful? laughing yes
  • Landwarrior
    Landwarrior April 3 2013 15: 10 New
    -2
    Here they’re just one vector - Let’s ask Poland and Lithuania, but would gentlemen want to revive joining Ukraine, “like the ancient ancestral home of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but already with the capital in Kiev, since now it is Ukraine, as the most powerful of the three states , should serve as the basis for the future great power ”(c) laughing wassat
  • awerkiev
    awerkiev April 3 2013 15: 44 New
    -5
    Yes, divide this Ukraine in half and that’s it! Cockerels to cockerels, roots to the roots laughing
    1. Mefodiy
      Mefodiy April 3 2013 16: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: awerkiev
      Yes, divide this Ukraine in half and that’s it! Cockerels to cockerels, roots to the roots laughing

      Yes, SHARE THIS SHARE .... Sakhalin, Kuril Islands - Toyota and Panasonic; Koenigsberskaya - Vaterlandu, D. East - China; Kola - Vikingam ..... fellow
    2. Fastblast
      Fastblast April 3 2013 16: 07 New
      +3
      2 awerkiev: I wonder what dividers like you are guided by when writing this kind of message?

      Of course, it's easier to share, give away and give away ...
      It's time to build and build for centuries!
    3. Conepatus
      Conepatus April 3 2013 16: 18 New
      0
      Dear, do you share your country, well?
    4. Mhpv
      Mhpv April 3 2013 16: 38 New
      -4
      Well, you respected all the males, the males decided to give the males see people were offended wassat
      It’s probably boring and not fashionable to live without males bully
    5. Semurg
      Semurg April 3 2013 16: 43 New
      +1
      when nuclear weapons were withdrawn from the territory of Ukraine, they were given guarantees of territorial integrity, including Russia, too. Or on the side of my own guarantees, I want to give, I want to take it away? And this is often offered under the Russian flag, although here they also swear love for the fraternal people. Probably one step from love to hate? Even in the form of a joke, such calls sound negative and do not cause understanding in every joke, only a fraction of the joke.
      1. xan
        xan April 3 2013 20: 05 New
        -3
        Quote: Semurg
        when nuclear weapons were withdrawn from the territory of Ukraine, they were given guarantees of territorial integrity, including Russia, too.

        guarantees do not mean what can now be done on Russia's head, and there will be nothing for it
        They left a large rebuilt country with Russian territory, and they turned it into garbage, and they want to turn Russians into Russophobes
        Do they want to hide behind these guarantees?
        1. Mefodiy
          Mefodiy April 3 2013 21: 06 New
          -1
          [quote = xan]
          They left a large rebuilt country with Russian territory, and they turned it into garbage, and they want to turn Russians into Russophobes
          Slowly, please, I don't have time to record.
          Announce the entire list, please ..
          Какой позор на мою всю родню. Она оказывается пила-гуляла и б....а, а несчастные, угнетенные, бедные "родственники" с Востока все вкалывали, расширяя, готовя нам лежбище на халяву....
          P.S. Увы, насчет мусора тут уже поспорить трудно... Можно на это ответить ..ну... ну, типа "К сожалению РБМК-1000 е...я в Припяти, а не в Сосновом Бору..." hi
  • Hius-124
    Hius-124 April 3 2013 16: 28 New
    0
    Quote: krisostomus
    А что Вы называете "полностью независимым"? Полностью независимым был только Робинзон Крузо на своем острове-государстве, а все остальные очень сильно зависят - от рынков сбыта, сырья и продовольствия, технологий и многого другого. И в чем надо непременно определяться Украине? И почему выбор только между Россией и Евросоюзом?

    No ! Between Russia, the European Union and Estonia! And the first two are outsiders. laughing
  • Vovka levka
    Vovka levka April 3 2013 16: 49 New
    +6
    In Ukraine, everything is simple.

    The powers that be do not want to go to Russia, because there they will put in place quickly. It will be keeping quiet. They will squeeze the eggs and take away the capital.

    В Европу хочется, причина простая так доворовались что в экономике жопа. Но проблема, что никто в Европе терпеть "понятия" не будет.

    So rushing around.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza April 9 2013 22: 13 New
      0
      Quote: Vovka Levka
      Но проблема, что никто в Европе терпеть "понятия" не будет.

      And finally, Europe began to talk about it openly !!! (I give only part of the article, there are many more other examples)
      "The British weekly newspaper The Economist was the most harsh, criticizing power and opposition to the nines.
      “It is impossible to describe Ukraine in human language: this is not a dictatorship, but certainly not a democracy. It’s still not clear how this country generally stays afloat, but at least something remains in the budget (given the all-consuming corruption), ”the newspaper says ironically.
      The magazine calls President Yanukovych a bandit, and the opposition is part of a pro-government business group.
      “In the parliamentary elections, the Party of Regions used a whole arsenal of dirty technologies, but with difficulty gained 30%. The opposition intensified and organized several protests, in particular, demanding the election of the mayor of Kiev, but all this does not compare with the orange events of 2004. On the one hand, the Ukrainians were disappointed, on the other, they finally began to understand that the future of the country depends not from the color of politicians, but from laws and institutions that must be described in human language. ”
      http://news2000.com.ua/news/sobytija/v-mire/227843
  • Alexan
    Alexan April 3 2013 17: 02 New
    +4
    Беда в том, что на карте уже не те пропорции флагов. Молодежи мозги "перепрошили" , даже крымчане воспринимают, как в школе сказали. Обыкновенное бытовое раздражение Януковичем не оставляет ему шансов в будущем. Что можно говорить про достаточно большую часть населения, которая умиляется от Юли или готова пойти за Кличко? Стране никогда не объединиться, а вот наворотить проблем - запросто! Есть такая поговорка: "Хай гiрше, та iнше!" Украинской ментальности ещё никто не отменял...
  • in reserve
    in reserve April 3 2013 17: 56 New
    +2
    It also makes sense to join the customs union, because the Ukrainian economy and production are imprisoned under the former Soviet Union. Upon joining the CU, Ukraine will be able to sell its goods and gradually reconstruct production to a modern level, plus private investment from Russia, plus cheap gas and oil, and many more advantages.
    What will happen from the entry into the EU: Ukraine, the market for European goods, production is finally bent because the product does not meet European standards, and again, Ukraine has no money and it is subsidized by European neighbors until a certain point like Cyprus, and then bankrupt.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus April 3 2013 18: 30 New
      +4
      Украинская экономика уже ни под что не заточена.Не может быть заточено что то,под что то,если этого что то,попросту нет.Есть интересы "семьи"Яныка,есть интересы "п е й с а т ы х"олигархов и есть увеличивающийся как на дрожжах штат милиции
      1. in reserve
        in reserve April 3 2013 21: 06 New
        +1

        Conepatus
        Украинская экономика уже ни под что не заточена.Не может быть заточено что то,под что то,если этого что то,попросту нет.Есть интересы "семьи"Яныка,есть интересы "п е й с а т ы х"олигархов и есть увеличивающийся как на дрожжах штат милиции


        As it is not sharpened, you have production according to European standards and robotic, conveyor production. You’re still producing military equipment upgraded from the Soviet era, you won’t normally make a gun on an APC.
  • medwed1976
    medwed1976 April 3 2013 17: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: Vovka Levka
    In Ukraine, everything is simple.

    The powers that be do not want to go to Russia, because there they will put in place quickly. It will be keeping quiet. They will squeeze the eggs and take away the capital.

    В Европу хочется, причина простая так доворовались что в экономике жопа. Но проблема, что никто в Европе терпеть "понятия" не будет.

    So rushing around.



    Freedom of choice ... so to speak.
  • Petr_Sever
    Petr_Sever April 3 2013 18: 07 New
    -2
    "пойти на интеграцию с Москвой, тем более что большинство населения поддерживает такой курс страны."

    Есть такая украинская поговорка-" думкой багатiе"-вот точно об
    author of the article ..

    On the issue of integration with the Russian Federation in the parliamentary elections 2012
    ВО "Свобода">10%, пророссийская "Русский Блок"<2%
    These figures do not say anything, do not?

    Maybe it's time to leave the world of illusions and look at the situation with a more or less adequate look?
  • medwed1976
    medwed1976 April 3 2013 18: 51 New
    0
    "пойти на интеграцию с Москвой, тем более что большинство населения поддерживает такой курс страны."
    Есть такая украинская поговорка-" думкой багатiе"-вот точно об
    author of the article ..
    On the issue of integration with the Russian Federation in the parliamentary elections 2012
    ВО "Свобода">10%, пророссийская "Русский Блок"<2%
    These figures do not say anything, do not?
    Maybe it's time to leave the world of illusions and look at the situation with a more or less adequate look?


    No illusions ... angry
  • medwed1976
    medwed1976 April 3 2013 19: 04 New
    0
    Quote: radar75
    Dear Russians! You would rather deal with your problems, rather than forcing the vehicle. And we really do something ourselves. By the way, according to all opinion polls, Ukrainians treat Russians better than Russians do Ukrainians.


    Well, yes, yes ...
  • not good
    not good April 3 2013 19: 22 New
    +2
    The desire to sit on two chairs may end in a torn ... booty.